He Made $400M And Built A Prison He Could Not Escape

Speaker 0: So I bought his program. Actually, used my mom's credit card to buy the program. Sorry, mom. I I started running some ads, failed miserably at his method. I actually ran a supplier pretty much out of business, because we sold so much then you went from working ninety hour work weeks weeks down to thirty.

Never more than thirty, but sometimes zero. When you can go two weeks on vacation and your business continues to grow and scale, I would say you've made it. Cash rich time poor, and cash rich means successful in business. We only have eighteen summers with our kids, and that's at day zero. We can always make more money, but we can never redo a childhood.

But, you know, I'll talk to founder dads who are on the verge of divorce. My wife doesn't really like me. I have no relationship with my kids. I I don't have purpose in life. I thought money would make me happy, and I have no friends.

I'm like, wow. That escalated quickly. Yeah.

Speaker 1: While there are

Speaker: 6 figure cars parked outside. It's, it it's quite, it's fascinating and humbling and and sad all all at the same time. Nobody at at their death bed ever says, oh, I'm I'm so glad I missed your game for that client meeting.

Speaker: Welcome and thank you for joining us for today's episode of Disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have George Rivera with yourtop25.com. And, George came in from Austin to talk about the true cost of doing $400,000,000 in sales. Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create millionaires. Information on this show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years if you'll take consistent action.

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Speaker: Let's go.

Speaker: Alright. So I was looking through this, and there's a lot a lot a lot to go through here. But, let's just go ahead and start in the beginning. Right? What was it that caused you to to to take this leap?

Well, I guess, not take the leap. What was it like building what would you what you're calling a founder's prison? Like, what led to that?

Speaker: Yeah. Absolutely. And I I don't think, you know, founders do this on purpose, but, you know, you start, you know, building and designing a business where you're the most important person in the business. And, you know, you're just thinking, you know, how how am I gonna get this thing to make money? How am I gonna get it going?

And as you start to grow, you just start to compound on a system that was designed to make you the most important person in it. And so before you know it, you're you're stuck behind every approval, you know, every decision. It falls on you, the company goes backwards if you're not constantly active. The business learns to run on your nervous system. And so, yeah, that's, that's kinda how you build a founder prison.

Don't ask me how I know.

Speaker: So, we said business that runs on your nervous system.

Speaker: Pretty much. It's like you're you're you're on call. You're you're reactive twenty four seven, essentially. Alright.

Speaker: So what was the business that you had built that that that created this?

Speaker: Yeah. It's a a supplement company. And I started a number of supplement companies over the years. My first one was when I was 17 years old in high school. Wow.

Yeah. 1995. Dinosaurs used to roam the earth at that time. And That's what our

Speaker: kids tell us.

Speaker: Yeah. Exactly. And, yeah. Back then, that was a direct response, methods, direct mail, classified ads. You know, a lot a lot of kids don't know about those things.

And then went fully online a couple years later. And and over my, you know, three plus decades online, I still do a lot of multichannel marketing. But, yeah, I was in the supplement space that I've built most of my, most of my career.

Speaker: So you built a supplement business at 17. I mean, like, I don't know a whole lot, But there's, like, sourcing, there's testing, and all these other things. How were you doing all that Yeah. As a kid?

Speaker: Yeah. So at 17 so rewind a couple of years, I would watch, these late night infomercials. Yeah. Again, this must have been like yeah. Early ish nineties.

And you got these guys in their Hawaiian shirts in front of the beach saying, hey, you can make a bunch of money from home. One guy in particular named Don Lapree, actually, he was from Arizona. May he rest in peace. He's not with us anymore, but he built a pretty significant career, on infomercials of, you know, how to make money online. Or actually, he eventually was online, but at first it was through newspapers and Mhmm.

And offline methods. And I saw him and he he first planted the dream in me, like, I want that lifestyle. You know, of course, I'm like 15, 16. And white shirts. Yeah.

Exactly. I want that. I want to be on that beach he's talking about. And he's he's talking about, I did this all from a tiny one bedroom apartment, and he scaled it to this multiple 6 figure per month back then, which is like multiple 7 figures now adjusted for inflation. Mhmm.

And so, yeah. I was like, hey, that's the life that I want. So I bought his program, actually used my mom's credit card to buy the program. Sorry, mom. I'm sure she knows about it by now.

And, I I started running some ads, failed miserably at his method, but the but the seed that he planted about me wanting to be my own boss and have financial freedom, that that never left me and and that stuck with me.

Speaker: What was the first thing you sold though?

Speaker: The first thing that I sold was, like, that it was like a 1900 number, which you'd have, you know, those are like, you know, I'm trying to remember the actual name, but, like, you could earn money by people calling 1900 numbers, and it would just give you sports scores, instead of, like, turning on ESPN or something. Back then, actually, that was a decent business model. I think that was just at the tail end where, you know, the Internet was up and coming and and, of course, everybody had cable TV. So there probably was a place for that. I was just at the very, very end of that.

And so Got

Speaker: one nine hundred numbers to get college or sports scores.

Speaker: Yeah. Like, real time. Like Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: Fascinating. I mean, that's basically how Mark Cuban became wealthy. It was just, scores or or or or live streaming. So so you read or you you buy this you go through this infomercial thing, and then you do the the 9 100 number thing. When did you start doing the supplements?

Speaker: Yeah. So that was in 1995. And I remember at the grocery store, I saw a Small Business Opportunity magazine. And I believe they're still around today. Maybe they've changed the name or something, but, they have all kinds of ads inside of them, be a distributor for this, wholesaler for that.

So it it was basically drop shipping before drop shipping became a thing. Mhmm. And you could just brand under their company, and they put your your label as the return label so it looked like it came from you. And Mhmm. They held all the inventory.

Speaker: Got it. And then you were saying you were doing this a lot with direct response marketing. Yeah. So were you at this time studying direct response marketing, or you were just, like, taking what they gave you?

Speaker: So I was just taking what they gave me because my first full year was, like, my senior year in high school. So I was still, like, trying to go to PE class and all that. And then I graduated and I went into the university to study, medicine. I was gonna be a a physician like my father, and, I did pre med for a couple of years. Didn't go too deep into pre med because, you know, you got your basics.

But then by my junior year in college, I started to make almost as much as doctors make for my business. And so I remember thinking, okay, you've got medicines, this one path. My own business is this other path. They're completely different worlds. So I'm like, I have to pick one.

And so I just picked marketing. And, so I switched my degree to marketing and, a couple years later graduated with a degree in marketing.

Speaker: Okay. When did your supplement business take off?

Speaker: Yeah. I would say my first, successful run with it was my junior year in in, in college. That's when it first started. And, you know, it you know, welcome to being an entrepreneur. It's like this.

So that was like my first big run, and it lasted for a couple of years, and then it kinda went down. And then I had some other runs, like the, search engine called Go to. I don't know if, maybe some listeners might remember that from the early, early two thousands. Goto.com was one of the first pay per clicks. Used to be able to get, weight loss keywords for, like, 50¢ or less.

And Mhmm. I remember selling so much inventory that I actually ran a supplier pretty much out of business, because you sold so much, then you have to refund. I I didn't have a lot of experience with inventory management. And so, yeah, that was my first real lesson in in inventory management.

Speaker: Okay. And so walk me through that. So you got you're making a lot of money, but you had a whole bunch of refunds.

Speaker: Well, they didn't wanna wait. That's the thing. Because we sold out of their inventory. And so, you know, it's gonna be, like, six to eight weeks to get more. And I'm having these transactions approved that, you know, by the, you know, the terms of the agreement, you know, of the merchant accounts.

Like, if you don't have it ready to ship, you gotta refund those. Mhmm. And so, I learned that the hard way because those turned into chargebacks and and and it kinda escalated that. So, yeah, I early lessons in life on inventory management and merchant processing.

Speaker: Got it. Okay. So you did really well junior year of college and then decided to not go to med school. What happened with the business then?

Speaker: Yeah. So the business kinda hit this part where it it didn't go, like, you know, negative or sideways, but it just sorta, like, stayed kinda status quo for a couple of years. I started doing some different things. Like, I sold personal self defense items, like pepper sprays, stun guns, things like that. I sold information products, like, you know, you know, like dating products and how to get married products.

And I wasn't an expert in any of these categories, but that's when you could hire like a ghost writer to to create it for you. That was even before the days of PLR or private label rights that became popular like another five years later. Yeah. And, yeah. So I became quite the the guru in various different niches.

And

Speaker: So there was, like, I remember, like, in the early was it or mid two thousands later, I started learning about, like, these yellow letter websites and, like, the ugly websites. And then, you know, like, you get the, the ads on Yahoo and it's you go buy this product. It's an info product. I mean, this is this kinda like the world you were living in?

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And and speaking of Yahoo, are you talking about, like, the directory where you could kind of, play the the game where you if you get, like, a keyword that ranks high, and and and a character rather, like, the number one will outrank an a, for example. So, yeah. So I had one dash weight loss group, or I think I had one dash a a a weight loss group.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Something like that.

Speaker: Yeah. Okay. So, what would you say you were good at at this time? Like, was it good at marketing? Was it good at supplements?

Is it good at figuring out what the market wants?

Speaker: I'd say figuring out what the market wants. And then if I had a skill winning, that would be just how to convey the message I wanted them to really, like, understand. Mhmm. And so I learned who my audience was and what were the hot buttons to get them to take action.

Speaker: Yeah. And so what did you do with that information?

Speaker: Yeah. I I just started other little businesses, and and so I guess one could argue that I should have, like, consolidated that focus and energy into one thing, and and I can imagine where that that could have led me then. But, yeah, I was, selling all kinds of little information products, different side businesses. I had little streams of income, but, I I could definitely tell looking back that it was diluting my focus and Mhmm. Probably held me in a, held me away from some of the success that might might have come earlier had I just been more focused.

Speaker: So then which product was the one that took off and, like, really made a big difference for for your business?

Speaker: Yeah. I would say that the real, like, you know, like, shooting upwards trajectory growth was when I started another supplement company. This is specifically in 2015, targeting baby boomers, for, like, anti aging. And, yeah, my first product that really took off was a digestion product to to help, you know, people, with their digestion. But of course, it's like, well, you could find that stuff anywhere.

But I had to, have the the marketing and the copy talk about the benefits of having better digestion. Not just just digest better, but it's like, you know, less brain fog, you know, better vision, better memory, better energy, and so hitting on all those points, and oh, by the way, it it helps you with digestion. That was sort of my my secret into it. Now, it's, you know, it's quite common to hit a lot of those points, but back then it wasn't, wasn't as common.

Speaker: Got it. Okay. So you took off in 2015?

Speaker: That's when it took off. Yeah.

Speaker: Where were you primarily sourcing your business from then at this point?

Speaker: Yeah. I would say 95% was US based online, and then, you know, single digits was, international. Yeah. But,

Speaker: But, like, this is, like, Facebook ads

Speaker: or stuff? Oh, yeah. I'd say solo email drops, independent media buys. Emails? Yeah.

Yeah. So I You're building

Speaker: a giant business from emails.

Speaker: That's how it started. Yeah. And then we got a bunch of affiliates on board.

Speaker: Well, walk me through that. I guess, this is a, you know, we talk a lot about buying houses. We do, like, you know, TV, direct mail, PPC, and so on. We don't talk about emails. Like, what Yeah.

What were you doing?

Speaker: Absolutely. So there's so it's called a solo email drop or or some people just call them email or dedicated emails. And there's various, you know, lists out there, website owners. Like for example, one of my favorite ones is like newsmax.com. It's a conservative news website, and I know that the people on that site are of my ideal demographic.

They're, you know, 55 in age, so they're they're they're of the older population. Mhmm. They're politically conservative. They're more like, let me take health into my own hands versus letting the government, you know, government assisted help. And so knowing that, I can talk the language of, hey, are you gonna trust the government?

No. You gotta take control of your own, you know, destiny. And, and and they're skeptical of big pharma. And and I happen to believe all these things, so it helps that that it's in alignment with with what I believe and Yeah. So I'm just talking their language.

Okay.

Speaker: So email drop. So, like, I guess, in your best year, like, what were you doing?

Speaker: The best year was, 44,000,000

Speaker: 44,000,000? Sales. Yeah. And a lot of it came from email drops.

Speaker: A good percentage. I'd say by then, we still have a a base of email drops. Probably we'd spend, like, 500,000 a month on that. And then, affiliates, which affiliates will bring a lot from email. They'll do, other media buys, like, like Facebook or Google display

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: Or or just within their own internal lists. Okay. Some will do direct mail campaigns.

Speaker: So what was your business looking like, in regards to staff?

Speaker: Yeah. At that time, we had as many as 40 people on the team.

Speaker: Okay. And so when was this moment that you're like, crap. Like, I'm not happy with what I have here.

Speaker: Yeah. I and, I'll tell you kinda like a parallel story that kinda ties everything together. But, back in 2015, my dad was diagnosed with cancer early on. So like I mentioned earlier, he he was a physician, and it kinda came out of the blue, you know, '67. He it's not a spring chicken, but it's not ancient history either.

You know, his parents, my grandparents had passed away a couple years prior in their mid nineties. So he's like, hey, I got genetics on my side, got a long run ahead, and and he looked healthy. So it was kinda came out of the blue. So got diagnosed with cancer, given a few months to live, and two weeks before he passed away, he tells me, like like on his death bed, he's like, don't miss Leo's games. I miss too many of yours.

I'm just like, a million bricks dropping on my head at the moment. It was like a a flashback to my old high school gym where I played basketball and I played in about 40 games but he only went to one of those games. You know, usually by the time you're in high school, you already know who your parents are. So it's not like, oh my gosh, he wasn't there. But,

Speaker: There wasn't a sense of abandonment. It was just like you weren't you weren't expecting him to be there.

Speaker: Yeah. And and but I do remember like all my teammates, like all their dads were at all the games cheering when they score every basket, you know. And I do my my killer crossover, break some ankles and reverse lay up, and it gets better every time I say it. But, make the best, and I look to the stands, and and there's like, I got, you know, there's no dad cheering for me. And, but my teammates like, I remember one time this, one of my teammates like, his dad just loving on him right after he scored, and I was like, I wish that was my dad.

And, you know, that would have crushed my dad. He's a good man, or or you know, lived lived a good life. But, you came from that generation where your identities and your ability to write the check, and you do that, you check that box, and that's all you're good for pretty much. Mhmm. And so, I pretty much became a clone of my dad.

I was like staring in the face of the regret that I was headed to. And so that was my line in the sand moment, my before and after. I'm like, okay, got it. Message received. We're not doing this.

I remember being the kid that didn't like it. Now, I'm doing it to my son. Message received. But I have to start whatever I'm gonna do has to start tomorrow because I'm working sixteen hours today. And of course, sometimes tomorrow means never.

In my case, it meant three years. You know, at the time my son, Leo, that he mentioned, was just nine months old, but he's he was an early walker and talker and I missed all of these moments. And so anyway, life continues to go on, and I'm scaling my business to numbers I'd only dreamed about. Printing money with my business, but hating life. Mhmm.

And I know hate's a strong word, but I don't know how else to explain having, you know, your family like ripped away from you, and and a piece of your soul along with it. So I'm like, okay. I'm I'm I've I've got I've reached the the top of this that what I can handle. So I'm like, I want out. I'm gonna either sell this thing or burn it down on the ground, but I can't sell a business of my size, or really any size overnight.

It's a multi year process.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: LOIs fail at an 80% rate. Like, that ain't gonna fix my problems tomorrow. If I could burn it down, I thought doing that would get me my my family back, my sanity back, my time back, and I could rebuild a business that supported the lifestyle I said I wanted, because I'm doing it for the family. But, would have been a bad idea. It was just a poor design of the business where I'm the most important person in it.

And so, I had a well, he's a dear friend now, but at the time he was a coach and a mentor, and he's like, look, don't don't burn the thing down. Just stop doing what you don't like doing and keep doing what you're good at. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. Twenty three years in business and it finally clicks. I guess I'm a late bloomer, better late than never.

So I start doing the work, and the pinnacle of the transformation was just a little under two years later when, actually went from working ninety hour work weeks down to 30. Never more than 30, but sometimes zero. Like, off the grid for weeks on end, and the business would continue to grow and scale without me. Well, that was a big win. Actually, my income, actually more than doubled.

I was the one to sacrifice it, but it's crazy when somebody else does the things that you shouldn't be doing, and they do it better and cheaper, and then you're doing the things only you should do bringing in revenue for the business. That's how you work less and make more. I was like, wow. Okay. Cool.

And then, the last thing which I'd say is the most impressive is like my dad said, don't miss Leo's games. So I never missed any of his games. In fact, I went to all of them. I know you'll appreciate this, but I I taught him how to negotiate real estate at eight years old. We do, short term rentals and buy land and all kinds of little things on the side with the cash flow.

And, so we own some property up in Northern Michigan. So we live in Texas, but Northern Michigan, see the map, that's far. Off the beaten path, and we own like the nicest property on this random rural lake in Northern Michigan. And, it's great. We bought it.

We put so much into it, and it's like the nicest. Then, like a year later, another house comes on the market on Zillow. It pops up, and I'm like, oh my gosh, we got competition. I'm like, we're just gonna buy it unless this thing's a bundle of sticks. Let's go look at it.

And then the old me would have said, son, here's an iPad, there's a couch over there, knock your socks off and and play, and I'm sure he would have the time of his life, but I'm like, nope, this is the new me. Son, you're gonna make the offer to the realtor. And he's like inside and we're outside as a family talking about how, you know, the offer we wanna make. And I said, tell him we're gonna close in thirty days. Here's the price we're gonna pay.

Leave the furniture. Leave the dock because this is a a lake house Airbnb. We're gonna turn around fast. Now go tell the realtor. And he's like, why am I doing this?

And I'm like, oh, we'll we'll debrief later. And so he goes in the house. Realtor is this big tall guy, and and, you know, my son's like like that big, and he goes up to him. He's looking up, and he said, hey, we're gonna close in thirty days. Leave the dock.

And and the realtor is just like, what the heck? He's like, eyes this big, looks at me, doesn't say a word, but he's asking me with his eyes, is that the offer? And I'm like, whippersnapper spoke. That's the offer. Mhmm.

And we got the house. Yeah. And I love thinking about that from a legacy perspective because one day he'll be with his kids like, oh, grandpa used to take me to make deals, and you kids are gonna do it too. And Yeah. And so, yeah.

And then, fast forward to current day, so that was when he was eight. He's 11 now, and he's got a podcast. He's interviewed over a 170 people, and billionaires, multimillionaires, founders, people who had major exits, and then just everyday awesome amazing people with a story to tell. Cancer survivors, and he's getting all these people just pouring wisdom into him, and he's just 11, and I'm, you know, I'm in my late forties and I'm hearing his episodes. I'm like, wow, that would have been nice to know at 20, at thirty, at forty seven.

And he's hearing this at eleven like it's a random Tuesday. And, so

Speaker: yeah. When we were talking about this, people listening are not gonna see this. Those watching may have seen it. He said, I'm doing this for my family, but there were air quotes. It tells me that there's you have an opinion on this.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. A lot of times we'll say we're doing it for the family. And I don't know.

I think we sincerely think we're doing it for the family, but it's like they're not getting the the best of us. You know, I like to say that, you know, my my, I I guess the person I'm talking to is cash rich time poor, and cash rich means successful in business, time poor means business gets all the time and the family gets the leftovers. And so, yeah. In my case, I was giving my family the leftovers. Mhmm.

You know, and sometimes that was like nothing. Sometimes, hey, I got nothing left over. And so yeah. Had you found me, you know, walking the street asking, hey, what what do you do your business for? I'd say, hey, I'm doing it for the family, but, I'm not giving much to the family outside of, writing checks.

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, that's something, like, you know, you ask someone what's their big why. It's like I do for my family. And, you know, depending on the mood I'm in, I'll either, like, accept it or or verbally accept it or really count challenge them on it, because it's not that they don't believe it. It's that I think they haven't done enough reflection, internal, introspection That's it.

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Like, we're going to flip everything right now, and you got a coach mentor who's now a friend gonna give you a path. So what's the first thing you did to get out of this founder's prison?

Speaker: Yeah. Well, first thing I did, I had to take a look at everything that I did. I call it a a freedom audit, but it's basically an audit of your time. And there's different ways on how to track it, but basically, you need to have enough of a sample size. For me, it was two weeks of everything that I do in any given, you know, day or week.

And and then at the end of that week, I gotta run that through a process called the 10 per hour filter. Now, $10,000 per hour is a value that I give myself when I'm in my zone of genius peak performance peak, you know, earnings. And so, you know, for your listeners, you know, maybe that's a 100,000 an hour or 500 an hour. So just figure out what that number is. Mhmm.

Speaker: And

Speaker: then I take all of the activities that I'm doing and running it through that filter, and then at the end of that, I'm gonna have a list of things that should be off my plate. And then I'm gonna retain a few things that bring in revenue for the business. And those things that fall off my plate, I run that through what I call the time liberation trifecta, which are the only three things you could do with any task that you should not do anymore. And that's eliminate anything that doesn't move the needle, that's automate anything that repeats. And then that's delegating, but delegating with outcomes as opposed to just delegating tasks.

And so, yeah, that's the process. There's just a little bit more to it, but, at a high level, that's what I started to do.

Speaker: How are you delegating with outcomes?

Speaker: You're basically showing the people that you're delegating to exactly what the outcome should look like, and then you give them a path to get there even if it's different from the one that you laid for them. But being the person assigning the task, you do have to give them the initial path, and then give them the liberty and and guardrails and decision rights in order to, to improve upon it.

Speaker: Got it. So what's the first thing you delegated?

Speaker: The first thing I delegated was, reconciling, invoices. And I know it's like, oh, shouldn't an accounting person do that? Yes. But this is more on a detailed level reconciling invoices from affiliates to certain, like, sub IDs. And I know I might be getting a bit into the weeds, but, even accountants don't quite follow that without, you know, some some, like, pretty detailed training.

Speaker: Uh-huh.

Speaker: And the thing is affiliates can send you an invoice, and then if your accounting department gets it and blindly pays for it, and then you didn't verify those sales are legitimate, then you're out multiple 6 figures. That's one of those don't ask me how I know things. But I could get into it briefly is, yeah. We got inundated with a bunch of fraud from CPA networks, and sometimes well, now we catch it almost real time, but at that time, it was tough to catch it in real time. You almost, like, catch it once chargebacks hit, but by then, product's out, affiliates paid, and you're just, like, stuck cold in the bag.

And that's what happened in this case.

Speaker: So when you're saying CPA networks, people might not be thinking the right CPA.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Cost per acquisition networks, I I believe. I I'm sure there's other acronyms for it. But, yeah, it's more, pay for performance web traffic.

Speaker: Yeah. So people were sending you their buyers, in theory, and then charging you for it. And then your accountant was paying for it without reconciling whether that was an actual real purchase.

Speaker: Correct. Like, they might reconcile at a top level, like, hey. So and so's billing. Let's check the back end. Yes.

It's right. Yes. It's right. Pay. Like and and, you know, for an accountant, like, yeah.

That's what you're supposed to do. But no. I'm like, you gotta dig deeper. Like, all those sales that they say they're coming in, do they match up in the CRM? And that's more like a techie person's role

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: In conjunction with the accountant. So to give the accountant the clear to pay. And so that was one of the first things that I got off my plate. But it took took a big leap of faith, and and then I had to sort of spot check for a while until I felt comfortable, like, alright. Not touching this again.

Speaker: Mhmm. Got it. So you said 40 people in your organization at one point. Is this at this, like, at this peak, you're at 40 people?

Speaker: Yeah. At this point, you're probably around 15 now. Yeah. It's been trimmed down a

Speaker: little bit. At that time?

Speaker: Oh, yeah. At that time, yes. Yeah. 40 people.

Speaker: Okay. Yep. So, was it because, like, you you took identity or took pride in your identity as a grinder? Or was it did you have trust issues? What was it that you felt like that caused everything to come to you?

Speaker: Yeah. Probably a combination of all that. And an interesting one, you mentioned the identity. Part of the, reason that everything came up to me and I there's, like, this dopamine hit that I would get as a founder to put out the fire. So I was like, hey, George, can you know, we got this issue, and then it's like, oh, put on my cape and let me put the fire out.

I don't know if that analogy is good, but, Superman and putting out a fire. But, but then once once you solve the challenge, they like admire you, thank you, and I'm like, yes, I saved my company again. Of course, I'm the best. I know this stuff. And so there's a bit of a dopamine hit, but it comes at a cost on the on the personal, on the family side.

And that's where I said earlier how your nervous system is just constantly running, waiting for the next fire to put out. Now, the way that it ties to the identity is, you know, I believe that every son, speaking as a son, seeks the approval of the father, just for the father son dynamic. And, that was something that I always used to seek from my dad and it's crazy, like I was still seeking his approval even after he passed away unknowingly. And so, kind of a little going back down memory lane a little bit, back when I started my business, you know, like I said, I wanted to follow in my dad's footsteps and study medicine. And so he kinda, in a loving way, but he's like, Son, are you sure you wanna do this business thing?

Because like, I've already paved the way for you. And he wasn't like being rude about it, but just kinda like, that's that's just a little crazy and distracting. And maybe he was right if if I truly wanted to do medicine, but, you know, stubborn, like, getting entrepreneurs have to be a little stubborn. So that's kinda when I learned, I think I'm cut out for this because, like, I'm kinda going down this. And, I remember that first year I had success my junior year in college.

I had accrued 6 figures in my bank account. And that was back in the days when you used to have to call into your bank because there's no iPhone, you can check your balance. You just have to call in and have the automated robot read you your bank balance. And and my dad taught me five, ten years prior how to do that. So I was like, dad, there's something weird going on with my bank account.

Almost like humble brag. I wanted to be like, hey, can you I'm gonna three three way you into my bank account. And I remember it is something like, you know, you got a $142,632.22 or something. And then my dad was kinda quiet and I thought he was gonna say, son, wow, you've made it. I'm proud of you, son.

Good job. And then instead he's like, son, you know you gotta pay taxes on that. I was like, oh, it's like like you poured cold water on my, on on my seeking approval. Now, there's a little bit of a redemption story to that, in 2005, earlier that year. Actually, that was my first year of hitting a million dollars and, but I had a major collapse there.

It's like the Google algorithm changed and the business model died as it's like depending on Google for everything. Mhmm. And I was depressed one day at his house, or acting I don't know. I was clinically depressed, but I was down and I'm at his house and and I've already, like, been trained to not bring it up to my dad because I'm like, I'm not gonna get anything out of it, so why bring it up? So I'm just kinda like down and gloomy.

He's like, son, what's what's going on? And I'm like, I'm like, you know what? He's my dad. I should tell him. So I'm like, yeah, you know, it's business blah blah blah.

It went down and and, I was doing really well and and whatever. And then he he's like, well, he's like, you did it once. Just go do it again. What do you wanna eat for dinner? And I'm like, wait a minute.

Do you realize what you just said? And and I I'm I'm just talking in my head. I was like, he might as well put a jetpack on me and shoot me to the moon with confidence. Mhmm. And then, after he made that statement, it it, like, it gave me, like, the the wind beneath my wings to

Speaker: go out and have a

Speaker: have another good run after that. And, but it's interesting, like, but that was his way of of sorta, like, on the side showing approval, like, not really, like, all in, you know, like, like It was

Speaker: an outward, but it was there.

Speaker: Yeah. It was there. So I took that as my as my little win, and and and but I realized that there's still identity. I don't wanna call them issues, but but there's an identity thing there where being the hero of the business somehow validated me. And, it wasn't until I recognized that that at least I can say, oh, it's coming up now, and I can tame it versus just giving into it blindly.

Speaker: So the first thing you did was the audit. Right? Which activity should I not be doing? Which one should I be doing? What was after that?

Speaker: Yeah. So after that, so I I then identify yeah. So get get things to the side what you shouldn't be doing. And then there's a number of things that that, I just eliminated that didn't have to happen, like, just like endless meetings. It's just just completely pointless.

Now these days, we have those note takers and and these other AI things that can join on your behalf. So long you have somebody representing you, but you can, hey, give me the summary of what's important and it takes two minutes. I didn't have to spend an hour in that meeting.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: Back then that was pre note takers, but I would have a team member of mine that say, just listen for what's for me and then give me the highlights. I don't need to be on all these meetings. And that alone, I mean, that must have been an instant ten hours for the week right there. That was a huge win because those take so much brainpower and, and then, you know

Speaker: Were these your meetings? Like, what what this is your company, like, what meetings were you in?

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Just different, we had marketing meetings, finance meetings, operations, overall team. And so, so yeah. And my my ops guy would manage all those meetings.

Speaker: And So you step in out of those meetings, how did the company respond? Because you you had trained everyone to come to you.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So there there is this process of where, okay, we're we're, removing the dependency there. And so it took, yeah, it took about two years to really go from where it's all on me to where I I experienced complete freedom.

And so there were some people that didn't make the transition. Mhmm. Some that were still used to it. And I'm like, I have to just lovingly say, hey, is that part of the process? Go back and see, because we're we're kinda doing it this way.

You know, so I wasn't rude about it, and I definitely gave people a lot of extra time to sort of adjust to it. Mhmm. But I I would just keep pushing back and deflecting, and sometimes I just wouldn't even reply at all for a while until till they got it.

Speaker: I was watching a video last night, TikTok, you know, killing time. Yeah. And it was talking about, like, you know, you create adults. You get your teenagers to do their to do what they're supposed to do by not helping them. Right?

Yeah. Right? Like, if you're telling if you're not gonna do something, or you're reminding them or you're doing the carrot and the stick thing, then they're gonna keep relying on you. And it wasn't until you create this vacuum that they'll actually now finally mature and, like, you know, ideally clean the room on their clean the room on their own.

Speaker: That's the hope. Right.

Speaker: It sounds like you kinda incorporated this principle where, like, you're less responsive. And then you're saying, like, sometimes reply, sometimes not. They eventually figured out, like, okay. We need to do this. We need to figure out a solution without George present.

Speaker: That's it. And then I wanna tell them, look. And I'm not saying that I'm never gonna help you, but, like, if you're gonna come to me with something, what are the five things you already tried and and give me a couple ideas of what you think it could be. And then you're you're training them to actually figure it out in the process of thinking that they need to come to you. Yeah.

And so that was a big two.

Speaker: Okay. So is it that simple? Was it just figuring out what you're not gonna do anymore, delegate it, and then, step out of meetings?

Speaker: I mean, I'd say that's that's at a at a super high level, but then it's giving them decision rights, and and some of that is with financial. So, I had a rule, anything over 500, you can come and bring it to me. But anything under 500, if it's a refund or, or or or like a a tool you wanna try out, like, just do it. Just get it. And then but we we do have, like, at at this time, we had, like, a weekly cadence.

I think we went to, biweekly. But you wanna have a cadence to where, okay, we didn't talk about it, but now at the meeting that's structured, come bring up what did you invest in, or what tools did you get so that we can talk about, okay, do we need it? Yes, no, or do we need to give it more time so we can do an analysis? Because if you're like, hey, just just don't even bother with the sub 500 stuff if they're getting on recurring software for 400 a month. That's, you know, over rate, you know, almost 5,000 a year, and then you do that over a number of things, you know.

Speaker: That's a

Speaker: pretty good point. Add up. So Yeah. We definitely wanna keep an eye on it, but, like, this you don't need to interrupt me from doing my zone of genius work, which is creating new offers to bring revenue for the business for some tool, for something else. And, you know, takes an average of thirty minutes, you know, if if I get interrupted to, and it's called context switching.

If I get interrupted to address an issue, it takes about thirty minutes to get back to where I was. And then do that four, five, six times a day. Those hours of of killed productivity. Yes.

Speaker: Completely got it. Here's what nobody's telling you. If you're a wholesaler trying to scale, the reason you're stuck usually is not your marketing. It's that you're spending your whole week managing human lead managers, and training a sales team is slow, expensive, and falls apart the second someone quits. You didn't get into this to become a glorified sales manager.

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Our top clients pull a lot more than that, but 10 is what we guarantee. If you're doing at least three deals a month, click the link below and talk to our team. Okay. So you went from was it founder's president to father first? Was that the the the mission?

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. So so my whole thing, obviously, the you know, my this was me, cash rich time poor. And so my message is for my fellow founder dads who are also cash rich time poor who can resonate with that. And that just means that their whole life is pretty much trapped in their business because they've designed it to run through them like like I just explained how it was for me.

And there's a cost to that, and that cost is is you have a family at home, or or or you're wanting to have a family at home. And, you know, the the children, you you know, what I'd like to say is that we only have eighteen summers with our kids. Mhmm. And that's at day zero. You know, when most people think about eighteen summers, oh my gosh, yeah, I got four, or I got one, or I'm out of summers.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: You know, so, I really wanna illuminate and highlight the fact that that time is limited with with our children and, you know, we can always make more money, but we can never redo a childhood.

Speaker: Okay. So what are you doing to create intention to be father first? What are the guardrails you you set up?

Speaker: Absolutely. So for me, it's just not working more than thirty hours a week and and setting a calendar and designing it like that, and everything else just has to fall into it. And it's a discipline thing. I mean, you know, I'm I'm I've been guilty of setting up things, on a calendar, and you sort of like, whatever. I don't feel like doing it.

Mhmm. So you it's a discipline to really respect it. But, but yeah. And then the the time outside of those boundaries is is, you know, devoted for family time. And then it's having systems, just like we have systems for business, you wanna have, systems and and frameworks for for the family as well.

Like, one is like a a season pass that never expires. It's like being there for your kids' games, events, dances, recitals, whatever is important for your children.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Or or in a single place to to your spouse as well.

Speaker: Let's so let's go through those frameworks. What what are those frameworks for being family or father first?

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, one is, you know, like, we have scoreboards or scorecards at work. Once they have one, on your in your personal life and communicate with the family, And you can have a family meeting and and get some feedback from them and say, hey, you know, first tell them I'm gonna make a commitment to be fully present, and they might, you know, laugh at you a little bit or say, oh, we've heard that before. So don't be shocked if there's a little bit of push back. I just receive it and try to, withhold any any, you know, fire back there.

Speaker: Defensiveness.

Speaker: Yeah. Defensiveness. Yes. Because, you know, they'll they'll react that way because they've they've maybe heard that before, or or seen some attempts of that. And then, and then, yeah.

And then you just gotta do it. You gotta show it. And, you know, a lot of times I've seen, you know, my fellow founder dads try to make make something up with a one big grandiose vacation to kinda cover the year. And it's like, I mean, yeah, sure they'll like it, they'll have fun, but like don't think that gets you off the hook. You know, it's the daily consistency.

Another thing is, there's three times in a child's day where if you don't have a lot of time, you know, for for whatever reason, and this is especially at the beginning, you're like, hey, I'm blowing it all. Like, what can I do? Little baby steps. There's three times in a child's day, so times five, you know, school days. That's 15 opportunities to have an impact, like in the morning when they wake up, when they get home from school, or, you know, like, between dinner time and bedtime.

Those are, three good touch points with your children that, you know, pick a couple of those a week, and and that could be a way to baby step into into your kids' lives if you're thinking, oh my gosh. I'm I'm blowing everything, you know.

Speaker: What are those I mean, you got 15 opportunities, but what do you do with those 15 opportunities?

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, that'd be a great opportunity for a hug, to to tell them you're proud of them. You know, like like I told you or like I mentioned earlier, like every son wants to hear approval from the dad. So that's a great time to say, son, yeah, you know, I approve of you. You are capable.

You know, you have what it takes. You can you can, you can do whatever you wanna do. I mean, that's a great point to a great time to be motivational and find something that you can appreciate them. Obviously, be sincere about it. And then, with with girls or, you know, daughters, you know, we're training them what it is to, to finding a husband one day.

You know, whether you know it or not, they're they're looking at dad to see how dad treats their mom even if they're with or not with the mom, you know. Mhmm. So that one day when they're older, they're out dating, they're gonna say, oh, my dad never talks to my mom like that. Sorry. Or my dad always opens the door.

Or my dad doesn't do this or that. So, it makes those red flags come up really really quick and you you, your daughters stay in a better chance to find a good man if they have a good example than a dad.

Speaker: Yeah. So how did Leo come about creating a podcast?

Speaker: Yeah. That's, that's a good good, good question. So I'd say we started at at the end of October. So we're at almost a year now, and so we've gotten busy in in a little under a year. He's he's at a 170 episodes.

And he's homeschooled, so, he's got a lot of lot of time to to work on it.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: And, yeah. It was a fun father son project. A couple years ago, he wanted to start a YouTube channel, and he actually did some video game streaming, and it just never really, he never just never really stuck with it. And then he's like, hey dad, I wanna revisit the, you know, the YouTube thing. And I'm like, okay.

What about a podcast? Then he's like, interesting. What's a podcast? Because he's 10, you know. Kids don't consume podcast format.

And I was like, okay, I got an idea. Go to your go to your room, get your mom's computer. I'm gonna go to my office. We'll get on a Zoom, and you're gonna ask me questions. Just interview me.

And okay, we're on there and he's like, okay, what do I ask? And I was like, hey, say this and, you know, give your your show has a name. Welcome people to the show. Tell them to like, subscribe. And, you know, I'm like, all the stuff you hear the kids say, you say that.

And Alright. I'm like, ask me where did I start? What's my big what do I what would I tell the next generation? You know, things like that. And and then it ended up being like a fifteen minute video with just lots of ohms, ahs, and, you know, coaching in there.

And I gave it to my VA and I say, hey, chop this up into a nice little interview. Take out all the little mistakes where it's just question, answer, question, answer, nice interview. And it ended up being like four minutes. That was episode one. I launched it to the world, which is just my Facebook friends.

Mhmm. And I said, we got a podcast. And honestly, like, I didn't know where it would go. I didn't even know if my son liked it. I mean, I could tell he kinda liked it, but I just thought, you know, whatever.

Maybe he'll he'll interview somebody here and there. But then I had like seven or eight people from that post say, hey, can he interview me? So I'm like, yeah, sure. And then we did that and then from those seven, he started to get referrals. And then, of course, I'm connecting with a lot of people for my, you know, founder dad stuff, and and networking.

I'm hosting dinners. I'm getting on podcast. So now I'm starting to build relationships with with hosts, with, with just fellow people I'm talking to, saying, hey, do you want to come on my son's show? And all of a sudden, it's, it's grown, like I said, over a 170 episodes. And and as a result of that, we created leointerviewsacademy.com to teach other kids on how to do the same thing.

Mhmm. His confidence has skyrocketed. Like, I mean, I don't need to tell you, but the power of a podcast opens up so many doors that you don't ever see coming. And, so I'm like, if you just do this forever and I gotta remember he's still 11. But you do this forever, like, you will never have to worry about work ever again.

Like, it will materialize from the relationships you're building right here. And so he's really excited about that.

Speaker: So you don't have to tell me, but for the people listening Yeah. What has it done?

Speaker: Oh my gosh.

Speaker: What doors is open for him?

Speaker: Well, you know, he's he's become a guest on a lot of podcasts, so that's helped him get the word out. Just a lot of collaboration opportunities has come out of that. And then just like other people, like he's interviewing people who have parents that are saying, I wish my kid would do what you're doing. And that gave us, really him, the idea to put together leointerviewsacademy.com, and which is to teach other kids from ages of eight to 16. Mhmm.

Basically, it's it's how to start a podcast, but the outcome that the parents can expect, because they're the ones investing in it is more confidence. It's knowing how or learning how to talk to adults to listen, to ask, reflect, process, converse, move a conversation along. Basically, a lot of the skills they don't even have right now. They don't even know how to talk to people, a lot of them. So

Speaker: I, I was a dinner date, you know, with the wife some some years ago. But I remember we were sitting there and it was a double date. So I was just sitting there in the booth with my wife. I'm like, this is a double date over here. So, like, two guys, two girls, and all four of them were on their phones, like, on their screens.

And they're probably texting each other for all of

Speaker: them now.

Speaker: Right? And so you're telling me, like, they don't have these skills. Like, it it's kinda, worrisome. Yeah. What what what skills they're gonna have, in the future.

Speaker: Yeah. And so knowing that, I'm like, you know, these kids who get into this at that age, they're gonna be head and shoulders above the kids now that are just sort of being zombified through life, you know, through these devices.

Speaker: Yeah. So that's that's cool. So where would someone find that, like, you know, they're listening, they got kids, like, where would they send that their kids to?

Speaker: Yeah. Absolutely. So leointerviews.com is is my son's podcast web site, and then leointerviewsacademy.com is where we, you know, where we show how, like, kids can their confidence can just go through the roof. That alters the trajectory of their life, because imagine having doctors, inventors, entrepreneurs pouring into your child. And it's like they're trying to show off how how much wisdom they have, but in a good way.

It's just like, oh, I wanna tell you everything so you don't do these mistakes. And it's gold.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I mean, adults should listen to it. I'm listening to it.

Speaker: Now you mentioned founders dads. What's founders dads?

Speaker: Yeah. Founders dads, those are just like I like to say the me of ten years ago. Cash rich, time poor. And I know I've already gone into what that is, but these are dads who shoulder a lot of responsibility at work, but they also wanna have a family, and they're struggling in that, you know, in that, how do I balance this out? You know, because they'll they'll say things, and I'm guilty of saying this as, you know, maybe you hear it from the family.

Hey hey, dad, we want you over here. I'm like, I know that, but who's gonna pay for all the stuff you like? That's why I'm over here. And it's just this tension that almost seems like, you know, you don't get anywhere.

Speaker: Yeah. So now how are you counseling dad's theater? I mean, obviously, we talked about a couple of your frameworks, but, like, how are you generally, you know, counseling that someone's listening right now who's, you know, hustling, fighting right now? I mean, especially now, like, there are a lot of people struggling right now.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Right? So, like, they've gotta work sixty, seventy hours a week right now, but they got kids.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: How are you counseling though?

Speaker: Yeah. No. That that's a that's a tough one. You know, I I specifically, you know, market to the the cash rich ones who have built a successful company. Okay.

And I know that there are seasons in life when, you know, that's not the case and the resources are light and they have to be the ones to step in. And so I I definitely know that that's, that's a tough spot to be in. I still challenge them to structure their business in a way that even if they they can't, you know, delegate and offload those things, structured in a way that when when you do scale, you're scaling freedom as opposed to chaos. And so, again, even if you're you're a solopreneur or a small team and you're like, I love what you're saying, but I can't afford to hire these people, I'd at least work on the structure of your business so that

Speaker: What does it mean to scale freedom versus chaos?

Speaker: Yeah. Basically, just having systems. You know, scaling chaos is when, you know, you're just, like, reactive to everything. But when you when you're scaling freedom is when you have systems and processes down in place. And and even if you're the one to do them.

Speaker: Okay. Alright. So then flipping it then. So you're saying someone that's got money but not time. So then how are you counseling someone right now to figure out whether they're ready to to do the the the father first route?

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I'd say they're ready when they start to feel that price, feeling the price of the absence at home. And a lot of times, you know, you know, I'll talk to founder dads who are on the verge of divorce. That'll cost them, you know, like half their net worth. Sometimes they can't even recover from that.

And even more important is losing consistent access to their child.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: And so, oftentimes, I'll I'll meet men when they're at that position. I host what I call founder dad dinners at my home in Austin. And, yeah. I mean, we go around kinda round table style where we talk about what's going on in our lives. And usually, it's like what's what's going great in your life, what are you excited about, and what keeps you up at night.

And usually, what's going great? Oh, we're hitting record numbers. What are you excited about? Oh, we're gonna acquire this company. It's gonna boost our EBITDA blah blah blah.

What keeps you up at night? My my wife doesn't really like me. I have no relationship with my kids. I I don't have purpose in life. I thought money would make me happy, and I have no friends.

I'm like, wow, that escalated quickly. Yeah. While there are 6 figure cars parked outside. It's, it's quite, it's fascinating and humbling and and sad all all at the same time.

Speaker: Yeah. There was someone, a mentor of mine, Emeril, I was talking to him. And I asked him, why are you still working? Right? Because, you know, I looked up to him.

Very well respected. Like, why are you still working? He's like, you know, like, when can you stop? He was like, well, if you asked me two, three years ago, I could have stopped. But then I got divorced.

Mhmm.

Speaker: So,

Speaker: like, I'm working again, or I'm still working because of the divorce. And if he didn't get divorced, he could've stopped already.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. No. I one of my founder dads, very similar situation. Yeah.

He built what he calls a fortune, and he got divorced and it forced him to to get back to work. He had to liquidate a bunch of assets and it wasn't pretty.

Speaker: So but there's a test you have for someone to see whether they're ready. What's the test?

Speaker: The two week vacation test. Mhmm. Yeah. So when you can go two weeks on vacation and your business continues to grow and scale, I would say you've made it. You are at the point where you can you can step away from your business.

We're not talking about never working again, stepping away forever, but having this, ideal, balance of of life and work. And I don't know if it's ever, like, perfect, but, but it's definitely in your favor.

Speaker: Yeah. So you had to figure out your zone of genius. Right? Like, here are things I'm gonna work on. How did you figure out your zone of genius?

Speaker: Yeah. For me, it's, it's writing sales copy. It's creating new offers, entering new marketplaces. Basically, activities that bring in revenue for the business. That's where every founder should should focus their time on.

Mhmm. That's my opinion and that's worked well for me. And another one is just building relationships, and But, specifically, your zone

Speaker: of genius. Like, what is because that's not gonna be everyone's zone of genius. That might be, like, their responsibilities as the founder. Like, here are the things you have to do. Right?

Like, that's one of my responsibilities. I actually don't like it. I have to go talk to people with money. I have to do this. Yeah.

I should be excited about it. I'm not excited about it. But I do it because it's necessary. Mhmm. Right?

So, like, it's a core responsibility, but I wouldn't consider it my zone of genius. Yeah. So how do you identify your zone of genius? Or you're saying, like, as a founder, you should focus on, like, the responsibilities that drive revenue to the company.

Speaker: Yeah. I I would say just, yeah, responsibilities that drive revenue for the company. And, yeah, it it would be helpful if you enjoyed it, obviously, because you'll enjoy life more. But my thing is if if it brings in revenue and you do not enjoy it, I would find a way to find somebody who does.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: I know easier said than done, but Yeah. It's one of those things you gotta, you know, just part of life where we gotta figure it out. And Mhmm.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I'd say, hey, we can't always do things we enjoy. Sometimes we have to do something.

Speaker: Oh, there's a lot of things we have to do. It's, you know.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But so long what I would say, so long as you can still keep within that thirty hour, work week boundary Mhmm. Then yeah. It's just one of those things sometimes we have to do.

But I would say, if you really strongly dislike it, find a way to get somebody else to do it who really loves that.

Speaker: So there's something else you're doing. Your top 25.

Speaker: Yeah. What is your top 25? Absolutely. So everything in my life over the years has, has really started with a relationship. And you know, thirty of my thirty one years online focusing on e commerce has been, you know, marketing, advertising, $1 in, $2 comes out.

That's, you know, just just buying ads basically. And either buying ads or paying affiliates, but it's buying performance essentially. But everything started with a connection, a relationship, and ever since I've come out from behind the shadows of scaling my companies, I've written, three books now. One called Buyback Time Formula, another one called Before They Stop Asking, another one called One Call Away.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: And in order to get these, the the message of my, of my workout and what I'm doing now, it's very different from the direct response methods that I've, I've implemented over the years. I've had to get on podcast, I've had to speak to small groups, masterminds. I've had to, you know, get on stages, and and just quote network and and and get to know people, build relationship capital, and listen to a lot of stories. And and from a lot of that is how I've been able to, get people to my dinners. I've been getting them, on my son's podcast.

And really it's a simple thing as I when I connect with people, I'm listening for for gaps. You know, what is it that they need that, oh my gosh, what you just said, I talked to somebody last week, let me connect you. And I'm like the guy I'm known for just making connections and my connections have moved millions of dollars and I've got people like saying, wow, you need to figure out a way to monetize this. And I'm like, I don't wanna be the guy that says, hey guys, me, cut me in for 5%. It just feels transactional.

My thing is, I hope to connect you two, and I hope you guys make billions of dollars. I I know it'll come back to me one way, shape, or form just because I'm I'm putting that out there. So it's not like a one time thing. I'm constantly looking to connect people. And as a result of that activity, I'm getting five to seven connections per day myself.

And be, hey, George, you need to come on this podcast or this person needs to go on Leo show or you need to talk to this group or this person needs to go to your dinners and and I'm just getting this this flood and fury of activity that's leading to, to clients, deals, cash, capital, like, everything that my business needs. And Mhmm. So I've put together a framework called One Call Away, and you can find more details at yourtop25.com on on how to activate your own, what I call $100,000,000 network.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: And it focuses on your top 25 people that you should be, like, pouring into. And spoiler alert, it's a lot of giving first, and being useful, resourceful, and and there's there's an art to it in a way that that isn't transactional and sincere.

Speaker: What's that art?

Speaker: Well, I would say it's just giving, giving without the expectation of anything in return. And then when you connect two people, you're essentially either spending a little bit of your relationship capital or you're building equity Mhmm.

Speaker: At one

Speaker: or the other. You wanna build equity. I'm sure you agree being in real estate.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so, you know, you wanna make sure that these two people connecting have have, overlapping synergies and there's a reason. And I explained it in the email why they should know each other. It's not just, hey, so and so. Two nice people. Go go for it.

You know, that's kind of a high risk expensive, blowing a lot of your relationship equity on on those kind of connections.

Speaker: Yeah. So this isn't you ideating who are the two people that need to meet. It's really you're just having conversations, and you're thinking, here's the person that I you should you should meet.

Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah. Because, like I said, I've had to kind of step out and and get to know people as a result to, bring people into my world for what I'm doing now with my son's podcast, with the academy, with my founder dads, my dinners. And as a result of all that, I'm generating all this activity. And it it's only happening because I've led first by connecting people that should get to know each other.

They're doing business. Money is exchanging. And, and it's just what I love to do.

Speaker: You're talking about, you know, five or six introductions and, capital. I guess, I know you're doing real estate. Like, you bought those deals, having your son negotiate those deals. But what are you raising capital for?

Speaker: Yeah. I I've, well, for me personally, I'm not raising capital. Okay. But, some of the people that I talked to, they they specifically raise capital. Mhmm.

And so I'm connecting, connecting them with other people who can link them up with, you know, sources for funding or, you know, opportunities and all that. So there's Gotcha.

Speaker: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So, like, what are you most passionate about right now?

Speaker: Yeah. I'd say the the one call away, the OCA stuff. Like, I love making connections and then they come back and say, wow. Like, yeah. We're we're doing stuff.

Like, this is amazing. And and it just brings me a lot of joy that that I was able to, to to, like, make that happen. Mhmm. And and a lot of times too, like, having those people come on my son's podcast is a great entryway into my network as well. Because I post it to my my, you know, my Facebook, my LinkedIn, all my socials, and then I'll do a write up and say, hey, you should go to their website, check it out.

Just like like typical when when you promote a podcast. Mhmm. But then I take the that link to that podcast, and I'll make warm introductions within my network to that person. And I'll say, hey, so and so was just on on Leo's podcast. Here's the link to it.

You guys should meet for these reasons. You know, now now connect. And, yeah, more often than not, it's, it's it's an awesome, the beginning of an awesome relationship.

Speaker: You mentioned earlier, you wrote another book before they stopped asking. Yeah. Is that related to the family or is it something else?

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. That's the that that's, family founder stuff. That's kinda my middle book. So, buyback time is is my kinda more business framework.

Speaker: So that was leaving the business or Yeah. Not leaving the business, but not burning it down Yeah. But finding a way to be less required and obligated.

Speaker: That's correct.

Speaker: The second book was Before I

Speaker: stop asking.

Speaker: Where to stop asking was about spending more time with your family. Yeah. And then the the third book, Won't Call Away, is about this next chapter where you're just, like, having fun hanging out with, like, your top 25.

Speaker: That that's it. And it starts with your top 25 and it grows from there, but, just to give people a starting point. But, yeah, before they stop asking, that comes from, you know, I I tell the story that when my son, Leo, was three years old, I I trained him to ignore me. So a previous house that we had had this nice glass wall and and you couldn't hear, but you could see out and in, you know. So he'd come up to the to the glass and he'd knock and then you can hear the bang, dong dong dong.

And he's like, I wanna show you something. And he's three, He drew something. He saw a squirrel, found something. I don't know. And I'm just like, I'm like on a Zoom call or on a phone.

I'm just, hey, give me give me a minute. And I'm sincere, like, you know, I'm trying to smile, like, I'm paying attention, but I'm I'm on a call. And, you know, I'd say, hey, five minutes. And sometimes five minutes was never, sometimes it was two hours later. And I I realized that after, like, a couple of weeks, he stopped coming to show me stuff.

He stopped asking. And then I went to go out and find my son, and I said, hey, son, why are you not, you know, coming up to daddy anymore? And he didn't really know what to say, and he's not mad. It's kinda like, hey, I don't know. We just saw a squirrel.

Moment's gone. You missed it. That's what I kinda felt like he like he was saying. And I think it's like a survival instinct. It's like, I go to dad, I get nothing, so I'm just gonna go somewhere else where I get a response.

No hard feelings, you just didn't give it to me. That's kind of the feeling that I got. And being aware of that, I was able to restore that bond. But I know that so many of my fellow founder dads and just just people in general, they'll they might experience that same thing and say, oh, my kid's just going through this weird phase where they don't wanna talk to me anymore. And that's that's cool, whatever.

Maybe it'll grow out of it. Who knows? Maybe maybe it'll circle back. But it's really sad and heartbreaking to know that that that your child was reaching out to to have a bond. And then because you you didn't pay attention, they're kinda, like, disconnected.

And and who knows? Maybe maybe that never comes back.

Speaker: So it might be self explanatory. Maybe you already said it, but why is it titled before they stop asking?

Speaker: Yeah. Because at one point, our children are gonna stop asking for our attention. It could be, you know, accidental, kinda like how I did it, unintentional, or it could be because they're already old enough and and they just don't need mom and dad anymore. And and that's the way we want it to be. Like, that's you're you're ready to fly on your own.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: But you wanna have that relationship before they stop asking. Ideally, it happens near adulthood versus, you know, three years old.

Speaker: Yeah. That makes total sense. So, obviously, I mean, you've got this wild adventure. Right? Starting a direct response business at 17 years old.

I don't know anyone that's done that. I know people hustling, maybe selling things they shouldn't be selling at 17 years old, but not direct response marketing. And he took that and he scaled it to a big business, got out of that founder's prison. Right? And then kinda have, like, this new, chapter in your life that you're really excited about.

We're talking about, you know, what what you're passionate about. What do you want to be remembered for?

Speaker: So, like, forever? Like, on my tombstone kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd I love to be remembered first.

You know, I I walk I never compromise all my faith. I like that to be number one. Number two, that I was a great husband. Number three, I was a good father. And and yeah.

And and you could probably dig deeper into those things, but, to be a a good father was is to show love and respect to the mother. And so it all kinda intertwines there. But I'd say those were were the top ones. And and then maybe number four, he was he was pretty decent at business. Maybe number five, he he was good at reverse layups when he was in the middle school.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: And the crossover. I I was like the poor man's Manu Ginobili.

Speaker: Gotcha. Gotcha. Alright. What would you say is your superpower?

Speaker: Yeah. My superpower. I I would say it is making the connections. You know, I I even took this test from another book that I read and and, it was like, hey, what would you if you could just do it and you didn't have to get paid for it. And and for me, it's just making connections that move the needle, like life changing connections.

Speaker: Mhmm. Got it. What book was that?

Speaker: The Big Leap. Have you heard of that one?

Speaker: Haven't heard that one.

Speaker: Gay Hendricks. Mhmm. Yeah. That was a good read. I, you know, I bought it like a couple years ago, never read it, and it was in my Kindle.

I was stuck at a on a plane that didn't have WiFi, and I was like, hey. I was just booked. And I was like, oh, it's pretty good. And I and I read it pretty much, on a travel day.

Speaker: Yeah. What is your biggest struggle today?

Speaker: Biggest struggle? I'd say just there's just a lot of opportunities coming, and, you know, I kinda feel like sometimes I'm I'm chasing squirrels a little bit. Mhmm. But, I've been working really, really hard to not chase shiny objects. I've landed really nicely on where I wanna be for the next, say, five, ten years.

And, and now it's like staying on the track and not letting little things even if they do compliment the business, here's another way to market this unique Facebook funnel, or here's this on Google, or this direct mail thing. It's like, stay focused on on just building relationships and and everything else will sort of, like, build off of that.

Speaker: So I'm hearing that there were there were a lot of challenges in regards to shiny objects.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm an entrepreneur after all. Right?

Speaker: I mean, because I got that struggle too.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Join the club.

Speaker: Yeah. What, I'm not sure I was gonna ask. Oh, so yeah. The the what was one mistake or one lesson, one failure that you learned the most from?

Speaker: Yeah. One failure. I'd say moving too fast. Like, I'll move fast on things and and things will break and, sometimes I, you know, it takes a few times doing that to learn I shouldn't be doing it. But, I've learned to, like, slow down and analyze things, not be so, like, jump on things.

Like, I don't know. Just because they say, hey, you gotta decide now in twelve hours, and if I'm not comfortable, well, I guess I guess it's not for me. Like, I'm not gonna fall into pressure tactics anymore to to make big decisions.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Speaker: Whether it's buying a course or or some investment opportunity or something, I just gotta slow down because

Speaker: going back one thing? Like, man, that's you're saying, like, that's a a a challenge you had to deal with. But was there anyone that really, like, drove in that lesson? Because, like, there's no shortage of things like, hey. Don't do this.

Yeah. And we'll hear it. We're like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's fine. Right? But that's, like, I'll be fine. And he really did go deep into it. He's like, man, I really should have listened to him.

Speaker: Yeah. Well, so, I guess one example is, so we have a property out in Fredericksburg, Texas. And I thought putting a lot of money into it, a lot more money to spruce it up and and make it prettier and some a remodel would bring in more revenue because it's an Airbnb, and revenue's been pretty much the same. And so it'd be nice to, like, unwind that, but, I kinda, like, fell for, you know, some of these gurus that say, hey, here are 20 things your Airbnb should have. And I'm like, I want all 20.

Like, I'm not I'm not just gonna do two of them. And, and and yeah. So I have a tendency of just going hard on it, and I probably should have said, hey. Let me let me just do five of them, and let's just see, and then we'll we'll continue. But, no.

I'm like, no. It's gotta be just like you said.

Speaker: Yeah. But if you were, like, slow and responsible, you wouldn't have done $400,000,000 in sales or or your top 25.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I guess pros and cons.

Speaker: Or completely because you went a one eighty after talking to your father. Right? It wasn't like, hey, I'm gonna take this into consideration. Mhmm. I'm like, okay.

I'm not gonna be like you. Like, you went complete opposite. Right? Fortunately, you didn't burn the business down.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. That was a good one to

Speaker: not do. But you can't do that if you weren't a fast mover. Have you taken the Colby a?

Speaker: You know, I I haven't. I haven't. I need to. Because I've heard it a couple of times. I'd like to know what where I land on that.

Speaker: Yeah. So so, like, on the Colby a, I'm a eight quick start and seven fact finder. Meaning, like, I have if I have a good amount of information, like, I'm going a 100 miles an hour, and I'll figure it out on the way there. And there were a lot of things I didn't quite figure out before taking the lead. It's like, man, I really should have figured that out beforehand.

So my guess is you're a very high quick start.

Speaker: That that resonates. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. Gotcha. Is there a book you've gifted more than any other?

Speaker: Yeah. One one's a faith based book and then another one's a business book. On the faith based one, it's called More Than a Carpenter. Just a story of Jesus and the documented evidence of of his life here on this earth. And I love giving that one away.

Yeah. It's it's been impactful for me. I don't know, probably 100 plus copies of that. Another one is called The Slight Edge. Mhmm.

I'm blanking on the guy's name. Brian Tracy? No. No. Oh my gosh.

I will get back to you. It's it's on the tip of my tongue. But, yeah. It's not it's not a, like, a super well known guy. I mean, I I think in, like, the network marketing circles might know him.

And his book is usually for network marketers, although he's not a network marketer. They just sort of, like gravitated towards that. But it's about these little things that you do. Olsen, something Olsen. Jeff Olsen maybe?

But it's about, little habits that you do that multiply, like like will alter your trajectory. And I'm so butchering it up, but it's like, you you can either go this way or you do go one degree this way and you'll be in a completely different destination

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: If you can follow that.

Speaker: Yeah. Only as a similar principle to the compound effect. Yes.

Speaker: Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And I believe it's Jeff Olsen.

Speaker: Yeah. I know what you're talking about. I haven't read it myself. Yeah. But, yeah, like, this the idea is, like, if you just get a little bit better every day.

Right? So it gives you tactical how to get a little bit better every single day. Yeah. So if is there a last thought, a message you wanna leave all the listeners with?

Speaker: Yeah. I I would say, you know, like, nobody at at their death bed ever says, oh, I'm I'm so glad I missed your game for that client meeting. You know? At the end of your days when you're feeling that, you're not gonna remember the name of that client. But you will remember if you made an effort to go to the games or not.

So, yeah. I I just like to say that the time we have with our kids is finite, and so let's make the most of it.

Speaker: Yeah. Well and this message, is is very well received because I had the same journey as you. Right? So, like, the, my dad went to, like, one of my games ever. And I wasn't, like, a star athlete.

I didn't have the crossover in their burbs layout. Right? But my dad only went to, like, one game, one intramural game, like, in all high school for me. Mhmm. And so, like, that was the thing.

I was, like, I'm always gonna be there for all my kids. So, like, you know, all my kids' tournament. So long as they're not the same time.

Speaker: Yeah. That's a tough one. To tone yourself. Yeah. So long as

Speaker: they're not the same time. Or I'm not out of town. I've I've I've been to every single game. So, like Nice. I love that.

Really really resonates with me just because, like, I saw, like, yeah. I don't wanna I don't wanna be that well, my dad was to me. My dad's wonderful. I love him. Still with us.

And, you know, he's great. But that part is, like, I wish he was there. Yeah. Yeah. And so, it really, really resonates with me.

And so, if someone wanted to connect with you, get to know more, get to know more about, you know, about your company or working with you, like, how can they best reach you?

Speaker: Yeah. I'd say yourtop25.com is the best place to go. There, you'll find my free, the workbook that I give away. People say I should be charging for it, but it'll give you your head start on building your $100,000,000 network. And, there will be all my contact information if you wanna follow me on socials or, check out my son's podcast or any of the other stuff we've discussed.

Speaker: That's awesome. Thank you very much. Alrighty. Appreciate you. Appreciate you.

Speaker: Thank you guys for watching.

Speaker: We'll see you guys next time.

Speaker: Shout out to Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.