Kevin Warner of Renovo Financial shares his journey from owing $60 million after his family's lending business collapsed in 2008 to building the second-largest residential investor lender in the US, funding $4 billion in 2025. He discusses the hard lessons learned about relationships in lending, the importance of customer service, and how Renovo supports wholesalers through strategic events and partnerships.
Don't negotiate every last nickel with lenders - relationships matter when market conditions change and you need favors
Diversify capital sources before you need them - waiting until crisis hits makes it impossible to secure alternative funding
Use lenders' networks to grow your wholesale business by partnering with them on events that bring together qualified buyers
1:55:06Josh Stech, founder of LendingHome and Sundae, shares how he built a billion-dollar real estate lending company in just five years, scaling to 14% market share. He discusses the venture capital playbook, hiring at scale, maintaining culture with 500+ employees, and his transition to solving the property sourcing problem for investors through Sundae's marketplace model.
1:50:17Steve Trang interviews Damon Lyons of Sellers Advantage, who shares his journey from losing everything in the 2008 financial crisis to building a $30 million assignment fee business. Lyons discusses his evolution from loan officer to foreclosure auction specialist with Posted Properties, then to direct-to-consumer house buying, revealing the systems and massive marketing spend that enabled his California operation to dominate the market.
Get a free AI-powered review of your sales calls. See exactly where you're losing deals and how to fix it.
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Implement real-time customer feedback systems like NPS scores sent to all employees to create accountability and service excellence
Build for long-term relationships rather than short-term profits - customer service and trust create sustainable competitive advantages
”“Don't try to take every nickel and dime off the table. Leave a little bit of room because you may need a favor. You want me to answer your call on the weekend? Don't take every last nickel off the table because I'm not answering your call on Saturday now.”
”“When the winds change, whatever you have, when that wind changes what you have, you can't go get different capital. Because all of a sudden, when the downturn hits, no one takes your phone call.”
”“If you're a wholesaler, you're bringing gold to the room. You really are. You're bringing the shovel that is needed. You're bringing shovels to a construction site that are needed, and you should feel that way.”
”“We're in business to serve the customer, not to serve ourselves.”
18670 words
Kevin Warner: Kevin, Eddie from the bank. I hate your business. I think you have a terrible company. I want my money back. I went to New York the next day, showed up at his office, sat down like an old mafia.
Fuck you, babe. The story didn't end well. I mean, it took it took almost two and a half to three years to to really just unwind that company. Shut down. Shut down.
Gone. One of my best friend's dads that was an investor in my dad's company as well took me to lunch one day and was like, so when are you starting another room business? Ever, are you crazy? Did you see what just happened? You lost all your money.
It almost killed me. I'm never doing that. And he smiled and he's like, you learned so much from that. You need to do and I want to invest.
Steve Trang: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have Kevin Warner with Renovo Financial. And Kevin flew in from Chicago to talk about how they're helping wholesalers get more qualified buyers by co hosting live events with them. Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create millionaires, and the information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire. In the next five to seven years, if you'll take consistent action, you'll become one.
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Yeah. Alright. So we got a chance to talk a little bit before, before we started recording, and it's fascinating to hear your your story, because before you were lending, you were wholesaling.
Kevin: I wholesale for a while.
Steve: Yes. So, well, I guess, what was life like, you know, I guess you were saying couple decades ago.
Kevin: Oh, you're gonna age me now. Yeah. Yes. Couple decades ago. You know, I'm well, I'm 48.
So, when I was younger, I learned the lending and real estate business actually from my dad. So my dad was in the, my dad was a home improvement lender. So when I was in high school, you know, I would hear my dad talking about making home improvement loans, and that's kinda what got me interested. I was like, oh, what does that mean? How does that work?
And then I started working for my dad's, company when I was in high school. I would I got on I got on work program in high school junior year, and what that meant at my high school is you can leave school at noon and go to work. Now other guys that were on or other people that were in the, work training program were going to auto body shops or, like, McDonald's or whatever. I was jumping on the train and going Downtown Chicago to my dad's lending office.
Steve: Got it.
Kevin: And, basically, it was an errand runner for anyone who needed anything, but I started to learn the loan business. I got fascinated. Started learning how to make loans. And at that time, it was kind of subprime days, so it was, you really were doing creative lending, and I you you have to learn a lot about how loans are made. Mhmm.
And then one thing led to another, and, I felt like after I learned a little bit of lending, I knew enough to be dangerous. And I turned to my childhood buddy, Tony, and I was like, hey. Why don't we start buying and flipping houses? And he's like, yeah. Sounds good.
Let's let's do it. So we were, like, 18. I was working at my dad's loan company, you know, during the day, and then we would drive around Chicago looking for, like, flip opportunities. Mhmm. And we got pretty good at finding, flip opportunity.
So we would, we would find flip opportunities, and we basically turned into a wholesaler. Mhmm. Because we were finding many more deals that we can do ourselves or or that we had the money to do ourselves. So we would just flip them. And in those days, this is before the Internet.
Mhmm. So in those days, we would put classified ads in the Chicago Tribune and in the Chicago Sun Times that called out real estate investors find, properties available, owner financing available, call today. Mhmm. Now when I placed those ads, I didn't actually have any houses. Right.
But I was but I wanted to get those phone calls. Mhmm. And then I'd be like, oh, yeah. We have we have plenty of houses. They're always coming and going.
Tell me what you're looking for.
Steve: Mhmm. And
Kevin: they would by the way, I was 18. And then and I'm like, oh, you're looking for a house in that neighborhood and you wanna do flips or a small apartment building? I'd basically take their order Mhmm. Hang up the phone, and then me and Tony would go find what they're looking for Yeah. And then fill that order Yeah.
Was the way that we thought about it.
Steve: Yeah. So there's it's it's fascinating to hear. You do you're doing two concepts that sounded newer. Right? Like, when I was getting wholesaling, but it's been around for a while, driving for dollars and reverse wholesaling.
Kevin: I would call it buying in reverse. And and and this was in, like, what year? Like, 2000? Mhmm. Right?
Like, even maybe even a little before '98, '99. Yeah. So, yeah, those that's exactly the same thing.
Steve: Yeah. So it really hasn't changed that much. Like, strategies that work today Yeah. Were working very well back then.
Kevin: Totally. Same thing.
Steve: Okay. So, you were lending, and then you started wholesaling. And I was doing both. Yeah. I
Kevin: was doing
Steve: both. Flipping.
Kevin: And Flipping, wholesaling, lending.
Steve: All all So you're doing all three? All three. Daytime, lending.
Kevin: Working at my dad's loan company during the day. Mhmm. And then we I started lending at my dad's loan company, we started lending to flippers Mhmm. Because we were doing this wholesaling, and we saw opportunities to be making loans.
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: So, actually, at one point, we were me and Tony were getting loans from banks a little bit at that time. Mhmm. And even back then, you know, banks would make one or two loans to you at a time for a flip, and then they would free you. Mhmm. Oh, you have too many loans.
We have more opportunity than that.
Steve: Yeah. Risk, high risk.
Kevin: So my dad overheard me talking about that, and he was like, well, you know, if you wanna borrow from the company to do a flip, why don't you just do that? Mhmm. I was like, oh, that's a great idea. He said, yeah. You gotta pay 20% interest and 10 points.
Like 10? Points, 10 points.
Steve: It's a family discount.
Kevin: Family discount. No. No. Look. In in that time frame, that was the cost of money in in a non bank environment.
Like, that was old school. We were a home improvement lender, really. Yeah. And the cost of our money that we were lending at was 20 and 10.
Steve: Yeah. So that sounds high, obviously.
Kevin: Yeah. But I did the math back then. I really did the math, and I said, well, if I get a partner on this project, here's what I'm gonna pay. Yeah. And it was cheaper to borrow the money at 20 and 10, do a quick flip.
We got in we got in and out fast, five months, and it was great. It worked out. Me and my partner made money. My dad's loan company made money. And when we got in and we got out, actually, my dad said that was one of the best loans we've ever made as a company.
How many can you do like that? But my whole mind went like, I'm thinking of the whole city now. All these houses we're gonna start, you know, just doing stuff with.
Steve: Became a millionaire instantly in in your mind.
Kevin: I thought I was. I spent like I was, actually, that time. I'll tell you that. But that actually, we started making fix and flip loans Mhmm. At my dad's, home improvement loan.
So we were making fix and flip loans early two thousands, which is way before this industry never existed. But, anyway, being a wholesaler was a key part of it because that was a way to really learn the business and learn how to make deals.
Steve: How long were you wearing all three hats? Wholesaler, flipper, and lender?
Kevin: Probably three to five years. Three
Steve: to five years.
Kevin: Remember exact. Three to five years.
Steve: Which one did you stop doing first?
Kevin: Flip.
Steve: Okay. How'd you come to that decision?
Kevin: I wasn't that good, to be honest. I think it was that. It was that what I was really best at was building a team
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: And recruiting, and and and I like the lending side the most. I think it may kept for whatever reason, I just was most attractive. Maybe it was in my blood from my dad Mhmm. That I kinda we stopped flipping. And what I started doing is instead of flipping, we started lending to flippers more and more and more.
Right. And I I was like, okay. There's not enough time in the day. So maybe let's just build up the this lending thing. And and we were still wholesaling because it was a way to get property for our lending client.
Steve: Yeah. Well, you get two bites of the apple. Yes.
Kevin: Yeah.
Steve: That's the apple for sure. And I think what's interesting because, again, before the show, we were we were chatting. Like, for me, I was always thinking, like, man, once I do really well in real estate, I can become a lender. Right? And you were saying, like, when you were lending, it's like, well, we should probably start doing flips.
And as you know, the the grass is always greener.
Kevin: It's always greener. Not I've had friends of mine over the over my whole career say, you know, oh, you're a lender. I wanna be a lender. I'm like, well, you're a developer. I wanna be a developer.
It's it's it's so do what you love. Right? I mean, you're gonna probably love one of them more than the other. Mhmm. Maybe you're better at it.
Steve: Yeah. So, wholesaling, funding, which is a very lucrative model. I mean, I know people still today that do that. And some that even have a title company as well too. So, like Yep.
Get three bites of that apple. So you're doing well. You're wholesaling and you're lending. What does that turn into?
Kevin: It it turned into, pretty quickly a very busy lending operation in Chicago. So so my dad, got out of the business. My older brother and I and other family other friends and family started to kinda run the lending business. Mhmm. And then and my dad had spent over twenty years making very small home improvement loans.
We started making larger fix and flip
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: To flippers. And this was in 02/1967, primarily.
Steve: So I wasn't even thinking clearly. So home improvement legitimate meant, like, you were just lending to the person that just wanna improve their house. There was no, like, flipping component. Correct. It was just Yeah.
Kevin: My dad was making loans for kitchens, bathrooms, a garage. That was his business.
Steve: Oh, okay. So it wasn't for a buyer. It was just for the homeowner. Correct. Got it.
I missed that. I misunderstood that. Yep. Okay. So, so you start lending more o four through o seven.
Did you, for all intents and purposes, you and your brother take over the family business? Yeah. Got it. Yep. And then you lease o seven.
Kevin: Yeah. Beginning of the end of that. Which because
Steve: begins a scary time.
Kevin: It was a scary time. So, you know, four, five, and six, we built a an awesome business, a Chicago based lender that was focused on fix and flippers in the Chicagoland area. And, you know, we were very busy. Things were going great, and then o seven started to kinda happen. And we felt it pretty early on.
I mean, we saw delinquencies starting to spike. We were we were we had lines of credit from Wall Street at the time, and they were calling us saying, hey. Things are getting weird. Now up to that point, we figured what we're no matter what happens, we'll figure it out. We'll just grind through it.
Figure it out. Hustle. We'll just hustle our way through this. That's how everything has worked so far in life, and we'll just continue to do that. But up to that point, you and I talked with this a minute ago.
So up to that point, I had never dealt I never had a bank go bankrupt on me as a lender. Have you? As a borrower? Is your lender ever went bankrupt?
Steve: No. No. Not, because I didn't I don't do a lot of flips. So
Kevin: Well, what I'm saying is in general, if you're a business owner and you're borrowing from your bank and your bank is a key part of your bank Oh, if
Steve: we got a relationship, then no. They don't
Kevin: And that bank goes bankrupt in a in almost a day.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: You know? So what happened to us is we were a lender, and we were borrowing, from one big Wall Street bank was lending to us, and we used that money partially to make our loans. Yeah. And when the when 07/2008 happened and things started to get shaky, that we were working with that lender to make some maybe adjustments to our line and do things. All of a sudden, I got a call one morning.
Kevin, we've all been fired. I'm like, what do you mean you've all been fired? I'm like, who? He goes, everybody. Like he's like, the whole building has been let go.
Like, you gotta be kidding me. I'm like, what happens with our loan loan? He's like, I have no idea. So for, like, a month, we had no idea who our lender was, like, even was. And I'm staring out at our team out of my office like, oh my god.
This is gonna get ugly.
Steve: This is your this is sounds like your sole access to capital. Yes. So you don't have, like,
Kevin: a second
Steve: or third. It's like
Kevin: It was our yes. And and here's the thing I learned at that time. First of all, when the winds change, whatever you have, when that wind changes what you have, you can't go get different capital. Mhmm. Because all of a sudden, when the downturn hits, no one takes your phone call.
Mhmm. I don't care who you are. You're no one's taking your phone. Yeah. The other thing I learned, and this is what you and I talked about earlier, I thought I was a real genius because, my dad had a line of credit from a different bank Mhmm.
That was a relationship bank that we were with for years and years and years and years that I also had a relationship with, and they were a little expensive and but they were a relationship bank. I thought when we took over the company that we should replace them, and I was determined to replace them. So I hired a broker. We went out and we pitched Wall Street banks, and we got term sheets, and we beat up every lender. We negotiated down the cheapest rate, and we got the highest LTC, the highest advance rate.
Right? We negotiated. They closed the deal in a year before o seven happened. Thought I was a genius. O seven starts to happen.
I get a call when they're all fired, and I call the broker. And I'm like, hey. I think I'm in trouble. He goes, oh, not only are you in trouble, you're screwed. I'm like, why am I screwed?
He goes, remember how hard you negotiated with them? I go, yeah. He goes, you're the first one they're gonna come after. I go, you gotta be kidding. He's like, oh, yeah.
You you're the last one they're gonna deal with now. Like, they're not gonna cut a deal with you because you were you literally over negotiated everything.
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: And now you're a low rate, high risk loan.
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: And I was like, I didn't know that was a thing.
Steve: So this is when they said they're they're gonna come after you last and First.
Kevin: They're gonna deal with when I say deal with you, meaning, they're not gonna cut a deal with you now. They're not gonna be friendly to you. You are gonna get the worst side of this bank now.
Steve: I see. Yeah. You're gonna get the least friendly.
Kevin: You're gonna get the least friendly. You weren't friendly
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: And you cut too good of a deal.
Steve: Right.
Kevin: And you you negotiated the rate down to virtually nothing. Mhmm. And you push their advance rate really high.
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: So you have them in a spot now when now what you do to a lender when you do that is when the market uncertainty sets in, when the when o 07/2008 or COVID or something starts to happen, lenders freak out.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: And where are they gonna put that freak out? They're gonna look at their most risky structured loans Mhmm. Which typically are highest advance rate, lowest rate
Steve: loans. Mhmm.
Kevin: And I didn't know that was a thing. Like, in when he I remember this was twenty five years ago. I remember the curbside street corner I was sitting on when I talked to my broker, and he told me that because it was like a it was like getting hit in the head with a baseball. I was like, oh, yeah. Man, I bet you if I would've stayed with my original lender, that was a little more expensive.
And I'm not saying this because I'm trying to, you know, be advocating pay more to your lender. Mhmm. I'm advocating you know what? Don't try to get every last nickel. Mhmm.
Because when you do, people tend to remember.
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Kevin: And they want every last nickel. Mhmm.
Steve: Well, the whole adage. Right? Like, people forget what you say, but they remember how you made them feel.
Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. Very much.
Steve: So, so they dealt with you first. So did they call all your loans?
Kevin: Well, here's what happened. So we owed them, like, $60,000,000
Steve: at the time. Okay?
Kevin: At the time, that was a lot of money. And for weeks, we didn't know where our loan was because no one answered the phone.
Steve: Right. So, like, you don't even know who the servicing company is.
Kevin: No idea.
Steve: Right? So even Thirty
Kevin: thirty employees sitting outside the window. Payrolls coming up. We have no ability to fund any of this stuff because
Steve: Oh, so you can even fund your own payroll design.
Kevin: I mean, you could a little bit, but, like, if you don't be if you can't access your main line of credit as a as a if you're running a lending business, typically, you have, you know, one or two main warehouse facilities.
Steve: You
Kevin: can't access that overnight, and you haven't planned for that properly, if you haven't planned for the chance that you can't access it,
Steve: you
Kevin: are really in trouble.
Steve: Right.
Kevin: And that's that is what happened. So so about two weeks go by. I finally get a call from a guy named Eddie. Okay? And he's an older man.
Eddie calls me. Kevin, Eddie from the bank. I
Steve: from the bank.
Kevin: Well, I'm not gonna say the name of that.
Steve: Okay. Got it.
Kevin: Because I'm trying to be respectful. Okay. I hate your business. That was the first thing you said. I'm like, oh, here we go.
I think you have a terrible company. I want I want my money back.
Steve: This is
Kevin: what he said. I want my money back. I go, no. No. No.
Eddie, you don't understand. We've been in business thirty years, and we're great. And I'm we're nice people. This is gonna be fine. No.
No. No. Kevin, you don't understand. I want my money back tomorrow, and I don't like your business. I don't wanna hear I don't wanna hear anything.
I want money back.
Steve: Tomorrow. Sounds like a hostage situation.
Kevin: Yeah. So I said, Eddie, I'm gonna come to see you. Where are you? He goes, no. No.
No. I don't wanna see you. I go, Eddie, coming to see you. Tell me where you're at. Mhmm.
So I found out where he was at. He didn't want me to come. I went to New York the next day. Mhmm. Showed up at his office.
Sat down. He was just as mean with me in person. Never got him to crack at all. It was it was just, you know, like an old mafia movie. Fuck you, pay me.
Mhmm. It basically was the whole Yeah. The story didn't end well. I mean, it took it took almost two and a half to three years to to really just unwind that company. So what happened was my brother, myself, other family members, and and team members and friends that were working there.
I mean, we basically unwound this company from, like, $0.08 to 2,010.
Steve: Your dad's business? Yes. So that one eventually
Kevin: Shut down.
Steve: Shut down. Gone. Thirty years. Yeah. Were you able to make the other guy whole, the this bank?
Kevin: Great question. So we worked we had it's been so long. I don't remember the exact numbers. I mean, we had a thousand loans open maybe at that time. So for years, we would work on on okay.
How are we gonna get let's let's organize these loans. Who's quickest to same thing the bank did to me. Who can I get money from the hardest? Who's gonna take a while? Who treated us nicely?
Who didn't treat us nicely?
Steve: I mean,
Kevin: hate to say it,
Steve: but exactly.
Kevin: That's what you do. I mean, you know, who are our friends? Who are not our friends? That's what you do. And and you just start kinda thinking about how to get that money back.
Right? I mean, the same thing the bank was going through. The bank was in trouble. They were trying to get their money back from us. We were in trouble.
I was trying to get money back from our borrowers. Same thing. So we worked down from about 60 to, like, a couple million bucks. Okay? And once we got them down to a couple million bucks, they were even harder to deal with.
And we had a couple 100 houses at the time. I remember it got down to, like, owed them a couple million bucks, and they had a couple 100 houses that were available. And they were even harder. They're like, they they wanted to shut us down. They wanted they basically just wanted us to give them the keys.
Mhmm. We weren't quitters. We're like, no. Like, we're gonna build back this business. Like, there's no giving you anything back.
And so, actually, for one summer, I just told the whole staff go home, and I went home, and I didn't do it. I didn't answer the phone. I laid at the pool. I was living in an apartment building in Downtown Chicago at the time, and I remember I spent a lot of the summer laying at the pool. And I'm saying that for a reason.
Because one day, I look at my phone. I'm getting a phone call from someone at the bank, this woman who name's Mary. I remember her. She you know, I had a good relationship with Mary. Mary calls me.
Kevin, what's going on? I go, I'm laying at the pool. I go, what are you doing? Wow. What do you mean you're laying at the pool?
I go, you guys have been really you basically shut us off, and you're trying to play hardball. So I sent everyone home. I'm at the pool. Well, how are we gonna resolve this? I don't know.
I'm gonna keep laying out. You do whatever you wanna do. I'm doing what I'm gonna do, and we'll talk later.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: Ultimately, we ended up doing what's called a, it's an out of court bankruptcy. We basically did an assignment for the benefit of creditors call. Or, basically, you you hand over the assets to a third party Mhmm. And you let that third party it's an out of court bankruptcy. You let the third party decide how to how to figure it out because the bank didn't wanna deal with us anymore, and we don't wanna deal with It's
Steve: kinda like a receivership?
Kevin: It's kinda like a receivership.
Steve: That's a good way to put it. So my question here, like, there's something you you see it online. Right? Like, Instagram, whatever, or Twitter. It's that if there's a problem with, like you know, if you owe the bank a million dollars Mhmm.
It's your problem. If you owe them, like, 60,000,000, it's their problem.
Kevin: I love that you're bringing that up. It's not that simple. Mhmm. You know? It depends.
There there's there it depends what leverage you have or don't have. Yeah. Right? And it also depends who truly cares less. Like every negotiation.
You know? Exactly. Right? I mean, it really depends. Right?
Like, you know, it depends. You know? Do you have other assets? Do you have enough to make it through? How how hard ball can you play?
Mhmm. You can't forget that a bank probably has more money than you. Mhmm.
Steve: And at the
Kevin: end of the day, they probably can win.
Steve: They have better lawyers.
Kevin: Not only yes. They have better lawyers, but but you're also dealing with people that just work at the bank. Mhmm. They're not sweating at night. Right?
Like, me and you as the entrepreneur who's like, if we I mean, you're like, I was going to bed. I I dropped, like, 25 pounds. Like, for me is a lot. Like, I I I was I couldn't I was so stressed for probably two years that that, like, every night, I'm sweating through my clothes. Like, it was it was terrible.
The people at the bank weren't doing. They so they would've they what do they care if it went on for a decade? Yeah. Right? They don't care.
Steve: They just hate you. Like, they're not losing sleep.
Kevin: They hate me. They just wanted their money back. Right? To me, I was a number. Right?
They're like, look. He's a number. We need to get this money back because we owe this money over here, and we
Steve: gotta figure it out. So the lesson you learned from all this, dealing with beating this bank down and having only one
Kevin: beat me down pretty good.
Steve: And only have one source to capital.
Kevin: I learned a bunch of lessons, like, a lot. It's, I would say if I was to summarize a couple key lessons is, you know, number one, lending is a relationship. Right now in the market today, 2025, I know it feels like a commodity. It feels like, oh, there's always money. Just just it's a commodity.
Well, those times 100% change. They're not always like that. And relationships do matter, at the end
Steve: of the day. So that's what
Kevin: I learned, at least for me and my you know, the way we try to build our business today. And don't try to take every nickel and dime off the table. Yeah. Like, leave a and the reason you wanna leave a little bit of room in because, like, you may need a favor. Mhmm.
You know? Favors are needed. And if you took every last nickel, like, I always say this to borrowers. Like, you want me to answer your call on the weekend, by the way? Don't take every last nickel off the table because I'm not answering your call on Saturday now.
Fine.
Steve: Yeah. So, we're in Phoenix. Right? You're here for, also your event.
Kevin: Yeah.
Steve: So I have people that come here all the time. Actually, I've had conversations with James about this. People come out to Phoenix. Like, hey. We're gonna start private money lending or hard money lending.
Kevin: Oh, yeah.
Steve: And the same thing I always saw was, like, good luck. Right? Because this is a very commoditized, lending, city. Right? Like, whereas in many parts of the country, it's two and twelve.
Two points, 12%. Right? And then, like, 10% down, 20%, or whatever it is. Yep. And out here, it's just, like, it's a dock fee.
Right? It's a doc fee and 10%. It's insane out here. And, I remember when COVID started. Right?
And we're in Arizona. So, again, COVID, it lasted, like, two weeks here. Right? Happen here really. Yeah.
But when it did, like, all the lending tightened. So that was was like, man, those relationships are really and so, fortunately, I did have relationships. But that part about, like, you know, we'll do 90% at, 10% interest and a and a $9.97 doc fee. That was gone.
Kevin: Oh, okay. Just for Yeah. Just for
Steve: a few weeks. Right? Sure.
Kevin: For
Steve: COVID in Phoenix.
Kevin: Yeah.
Steve: Just for a few weeks. But, like, all these things rely, like, it was a commodity Yeah. Until it wasn't. Correct.
Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. That's one of my biggest takeaways is is it lending is not a commodity. It's also you know, relationships matter. Thinking long term matters.
Being prudent with your finances really does matter. You know? All those kind of things. And thinking long term. You know?
Making long term plans, you know, really matter.
Steve: Did you get really comfortable having access to a warehouse line as far as your finances?
Kevin: What do you mean, sir?
Steve: Like, Get over comfortable? Like, did you have, like, for example, you know, if we were to go to I don't know who the business version of Dave Ramsey is. Right? But there's, like, six months I'm sorry. Marcus Crickley.
Right? Six months reserves. Yep. Right? Six months reserves or a million dollars cash in the bank at all times.
Kevin: Yes. Right. I believe in that for for sure.
Steve: Yeah. Were you that guy, in o seven? Yeah. I think
Kevin: we were, but probably not enough. You know, we did rely on, hey. We could just use our warehouse lines, you know, because because we had availability in our warehouse. That's what
Steve: I'm saying. Like, because you have access to capital, were you as prudent with
Kevin: Not as much. We we were we were pretty prudent, but not like we not like like we like, I've grown to become as I've gotten older. Because cash in the bank is really the only for sure thing. Right? And and I'll tell you, even in 07/2008, that became questionable.
So when I'll tell you. When COVID hit, because of what we went through, what I went through during o seven and o eight, I was in a meeting at Renova in our in our office one day in Chicago, and COVID was really setting in. And I remember we had clients in the conference room, and we were having a meeting about what was happening. Mhmm. And I our CFO came in, and I signed a bunch of paperwork.
And and the guys were like, what are you what are you doing? I got moving all of our money around.
Steve: They're like, what do you mean
Kevin: you're moving around? I'm like, I'm I'm not having more than a few million in any bank right now. Yeah. They're like, are you serious? I'm like, oh, yeah.
Like, I don't know. If o eight happens again, like, I don't wanna get caught. Like, even though you get money at a bank, if your bank shuts down, not that you're not gonna get it, but maybe not for a few weeks.
Steve: Yeah. Well, it's insured. So, hopefully, it's covered. It is. But But but how long will it take?
Kevin: How long will it take? And what if you have to pay your bills and do things? And so so they thought that was kind of interesting.
Steve: I mean, just my own little deal. I remember not, COVID, but, like, when interest rates hiked in '22, everyone was freaking out. I was like, that's gonna be fine. Right? Like, there's so little inventory.
Like, it's gonna be fine. The the demand is higher to supply. Right? That was my mindset. It's like, we're not changing anything.
We're gonna keep going strong. Right? And then we get a lead in Buckeye. So for context, Buckeye is well outside, right, Phoenix Metro.
Kevin: Okay.
Steve: And so they're like, oh, well, we got this opportunity in Buckeye. I said, well, hang on. When I said, like, nothing changes, I mean, in Phoenix. Because I was around in o seven, o eight, o nine. When the market started getting interesting, if you were outside the metro, those outskirts got crushed.
Kevin: Oh, yeah. Those numbers just dropped through the floor. Right? Yeah.
Steve: And we
Kevin: $200 now our house is all of a sudden 30. Yeah. And yeah. Right. Okay.
Steve: So now you're, you're done with this bank. You've settled.
Kevin: So the family business, shut down officially in May 2010.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: So in May 2010, I remember walking out of the courthouse, handed off to the receiver. We were we were done Mhmm. At that point.
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Kevin: I went home and just cried. Cried for a while. You know, dusted off a little bit and started flipping again. Started wholesaling a bit.
Steve: Great time. Did we do that?
Kevin: It was an amazing time. You know, I've I've my mom's a realtor, so we would like, I remember sitting with my mom, like, looking on the MLS, and you just see hundreds of pages of houses at prices you couldn't even imagine. Yeah. And I remember hearing family members at the time because I was like, I'm gonna buy everything. Like, whatever I can buy right now, I'm gonna I'm gonna figure out a way to buy it.
And the family members were like, you're crazy. Real estate's never coming back. It's never. Even I was pretty young, I'm like, it's coming back. Like, you can't say it's never coming back.
So I started flipping houses, started wholesaling, and then thank goodness it was a family friend. One of my best friend's dads that was an investor in my dad's company as well took me to lunch one day and was like, so when are you starting another loan business? I was like, never. Are you crazy? Did you see what just happened?
You lost all your money. It almost killed me. I'm never doing that again. And he smiled, and he's like, you learned so much from that. You need to do it again.
And I want to invest in it. I was like
Steve: Not only did he push you, he was like, I wanna back you.
Kevin: He's like, you I'm like, you're you gotta be crazy. He goes, no. I'm I'm serious. Like, look. I'll help you.
He's like, I'll sit with you. We'll do it. I'll help you write the business plan. I'm like so I remember going home that night, and that was like I still wasn't thinking yes. But then after a few days, I started remembering the things I loved about being in the lending business.
Steve: And it
Kevin: was a lot. So I went back to him, and I was like, you know, I I I think you're right. I I wanna build, I wanna I wanna do it. And because it was different working I basically, you know, worked at my dad's lending business. I I ran it for a while with my brother and other family members.
And, but I didn't start it. Right? Mhmm. And there's a difference. And I I kinda started to get this itch.
I'm like, wow. I would like to see if if if I can do this. And, so at the time, it was 2010. You had time on your hands because the market was such shambles
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: That and and there was no real market necessary. Meaning, there was no private money market at the time. It was very quiet. Quiet. Not a lot was going on.
So I wrote a business plan about starting, a rehab lending company. And and my dad's my friend's dad, Rick is his name, also was very smart. And he said, look. I'm gonna tell you something. If you can't get an institutional investor to back you in this, you also probably shouldn't do it.
Same friend, different. Same friend. He's like, I'm gonna invest, but if you can't get, like, a big institution do it with us, you probably shouldn't do it. Because what I did learn after going through the downturn, my dad had a lot of his fam his friends and family's money tied up in that business. Mhmm.
It was basically a hard money lender funded with friends and family. Like, a lot of people you know when they start private money shops, they do a loan fund Mhmm. And they raise a lot of money for friends and family. Right. That was what my dad did.
That's what we did. That gets stressful. You know, having hundreds and hundreds of investors that that, you know, you have $50, $100, $300, whatever it is from all these investors. You know, he he said to me, look. If you're gonna start something new, if you see if you can get an institutional investor to back you day one.
If you could, definitely go that route. If you can't, I don't know if you should do this. Mhmm. So I wrote a business plan. Then I, in my journal, I made a list of every, like, institutional, like, private equity, investor or anyone I ever met in Chicago.
I'm from Chicago. That's where I kinda wanted to start the company. So I went and took private equity guys to breakfast, lunch, dinner. I made this deck about, you know, this company I wanted to start. Mhmm.
And I and it was in November '20 November and December 2010. A lot of them took lunch meetings with me, but I would say eight out of 10, like, almost laughed me out of lunch. Mhmm. They're like, wait. Let me get this straight.
Basically, your dad's company just basically bankrupted. Right. We're in the middle of a financial crisis. You wanna start a lending business.
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: Sounds good. No. We're not interested. It's cute. And at the time Yeah.
You you know what Groupon is? Remember Groupon? Mhmm. So at the time, Groupon started in Chicago. It was a it was like it was everything in Chicago.
So, like, every young person in Chicago wanted to go work at Groupon. So Oh, really? Every young person in Chicago wanted to work at Groupon. So all the people I was pitching on this actually were saying to me, why don't you just go get a job at Groupon? You can, like, be a sales manager at Groupon.
You could do great. I was like, I wanna do that. So, you know, after enough meetings, I finally started to get some traction.
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: And to speed up the story, I I cut a deal with a small PE shop in Chicago, named Granite Creek Partners, and we cut a deal. And we started, Renovo from scratch in 2011. That's how we got started.
Steve: You, no more family in involved in this. Correct. Yeah.
Kevin: No. Got
Steve: it. Okay. So then what were those beginnings like?
Kevin: Hard. You know, made no money for many, many years. Let you know, I just I wasn't married at the time, but I was with my wife, my my now wife, and we moved into a small apartment. We lived on very little. I was doing host I was doing wholesaling, and I was also doing transactional funding.
Mhmm. You know what that is? Yeah. Okay. Do they still do that today?
People do that?
Steve: Still do it. Yeah. Okay.
Kevin: So at the time, I was doing all because I was in
Steve: Well, elaborate with transactional funding for everyone to
Kevin: do that. Some if a wholesaler needs to close and buy and sell the same day
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: Basically make a one day loan.
Steve: Yeah. So simultaneous close more or less.
Kevin: Simultaneous close. Yeah. So I had a little bit of money, not much, a little bit, but I knew the lending business. So I basically set up a little side hustle of making transactional loans. Mhmm.
So as I was,
Steve: you
Kevin: know, sitting, getting Renovo going on the side, I'm, like, literally closing one day loans Yeah. And did enough of them a month to try to, like, pay my rent and and and other stuff. But we you know, look. We had a vision for what we wanted to build. We wanted to build a great culture, a great team, and, and great customer service, and build a company for the long haul.
That was our that was our dream. You know? How do we partner how do we how do we be a good capital partner to real estate investors and work with them and do it locally? You know, really do it locally, understand their business, and be a great capital partner and build a build a business around it for for the long haul. And that was fifteen years ago.
But the first couple years were really hard. In order me so Daniel, Daniel Rosen, cofounder, with me. We started the company together. In order for us to make money at that time you know what extension fees are on loans?
Steve: Yeah. The six month, fee that every time comes up, I was like, why am I paying the six month fee?
Kevin: Well, at that time yeah. The only way me and Daniel, like, sometimes we needed money, so so we would go collect extension fees. Yeah. And I would be like, hey, Daniel. Those three loans owe us extension fees.
You gotta go get a check. We would go get a check from the borrower, deposit it at the bank. So me and Daniel can always get paid a little something
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: For those weeks. So the beginning was hard. For the first five years of the business, it when we started, we set a goal. Our goal was to get to a $100,000,000 of loans Mhmm. At one time.
That was the goal. And it was big when we set that goal.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: It took us about six years to get there, to get to a 100,000,000.
Steve: In one year or in total?
Kevin: Total. Got it. Took us six years to get there. Now I, I will say it happened simultaneously with starting to do a 100,000,000 a year, so let's now pivot to a 100,000,000 a year. So so, basically, it took us six years to get to a $100,000,000 a year.
Yeah. Well, once we got close at that time, we had, I don't know, 15 employees. We had a team. We had a a culture beginning. We had a little business that was starting.
And we got together, and we said, now we have to set another goal. Okay? Because we hit our goal. We're gonna do a billion. And that was, like, people's mind.
Like, Kevin, what do you mean a billion? Even our capital partners were like, hey. Why why do you say numbers like that? You're not gonna there's no way you could do a billion in a year. Mhmm.
It was like, we're gonna do a billion in a year.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: And we set it we set that goal. We got very we got very focused. Took us five more years. Mhmm. And we got there.
We hit a billion in a year.
Steve: Yeah. What we say is instrumental to go from a 100,000,000 a year to a billion year because that's literally 10 x. And it's it's not even, like, 10 x of a small number. Right? It's not going from, like, two deals to 20 deals in a year.
This is a $100,000,000 in volume to a billion dollars in volume.
Kevin: Yeah.
Steve: Five years.
Kevin: Yeah.
Steve: I mean, you're growing at least 20% a year over the course of five years.
Kevin: Yes. More.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: Yeah. You know, I would say it took in the beginning, you need a different when you're building a company, I think you need you need you as a leader need to be different at different phases of the business. In the beginning, we had to have a lot of patience, and we had to work on systems and process and loan documents and technology and things that take a long I mean, this was fifteen years ago, so things took longer. And it took took a long time. I think it was it was hard for me to adapt.
You you do have to kind of adapt into more of a growth person at some point where you're okay. The foundation is built. Now we have to grow. Mhmm. I think it all starts at the top, and I and I I don't mean to say me at the top, but I I think leadership really matters.
So it took years for me to be able to get the mindset
Steve: of growth Yeah.
Kevin: If that makes sense. Like, I'd be in board meetings, and my investors would be like, Kevin, grow more. Like, grow. And I'd be like, we're we're we're trying. We're working.
We're putting things together. I think the look. The biggest shift, we always thought that in order to grow outside Chicago, that we would have to buy other companies in other locations. Yeah.
Steve: We thought
Kevin: that was what we had to do. It's a
Steve: reasonable thought. Yeah.
Kevin: Because we believed in being local. We really believed that we didn't wanna have, like, a one office somewhere and lend all over the country from one office. We didn't really believe in that model. It wasn't who we were. Who we were is we wanna know our customers, wanna go to property with our borrower, and see the property with them.
So we're like, alright. We have to buy companies all locations. So for years, I would jump on planes. I would go meet other small lenders in other locations and try to cut deals and try to acquire somebody in Austin, Texas, in New Jersey, in Philadelphia, in Boston. I'm saying those names on purpose because those were those were lenders in those cities that we would go and spend and waste so much time whining and dining and talking and blah blah blah.
And it anyway, years went by. None of those deals worked out. Why? I think because they weren't meant to. I honestly, in retrospect, I think we we tried.
We we made offers. We had term sheets. We got left at the altar a couple times where where we finalized everything, and then the the the company that we were trying to buy was like, yeah. Never mind. We're not gonna do it.
Yeah. So finally, we got so frustrated. We're like, alright. You know what? Screw this.
Like, we're gonna pay, you know, almost $10,000,000 for this company. Let's take millions of dollars. Let's just go out there and start finding the right people, the right teams. Let's run some office space, and let's start building let's start building from the ground up. Mhmm.
When that when that shifted for us is when we started to grow a lot more. So that helped us go, you know, from 200,000,000 a year to 1,000,000,000 a year Mhmm. Fairly quickly. That was big.
Steve: So finding Teams. The right players, more or less. The right players and have in the different markets.
Kevin: Yes. Yes. Well, also, let me say this. Also, the key thing is we we talked about building a solid business and having the capital for that. Mhmm.
We had a very large investment we took when we in 2015 that, was a $100,000,000 that we took. That investment was due back to the there was an opportunity for that, company to to demand their money back, in 2020. We knew after what we went through in o eight, there's no way we're gonna be within a year of that maturity. No way. So eighteen months earlier, we started working on getting that out.
Thank god we did because we ended up recapitalizing and brought in a whole bunch of money and cleaned up the balance sheet in November 2019. So think of that timing. So but in November 2019, we raised a bunch of new money. We cleaned up the balance sheet. We got rid of that debt that was owed, and we were sitting there with in great shape when March 2020 happened.
Yeah. COVID. And that was a key opportunity for us. Because when COVID hit, a lot of lenders, you know, really hit the skids. It was it was tough.
Froze. Everyone froze, laid off their staff. You know? I mean, it was it was ugly. Right?
Steve: How much did you have note due? Pardon? How much did you say it was due in 2020?
Kevin: $200,000,000
Steve: Yeah. Due to one investor. Yes. Very well off investor.
Kevin: Yes. Very well off investor. And but that was the I knew that I didn't wanna owe that guy a $100,000,000, because asking for an extension was not gonna go well Yeah. Okay, at all. So it was like, there's no way we're gonna get within one year of an extension.
Mhmm.
Steve: Does that
Kevin: make sense? Because the problem is if if you wait if you're like, oh, we have time. It only takes six months to deal with it. God forbid a COVID hits or a rate hike hits, like, 2022 or anything, the crazy shit happens. Right?
Steve: Right.
Kevin: If you wait and that thing happens, you are SOL.
Steve: What's that movie we did before with your dad's business? Yeah. Or was that wisdom that your your, your your dad's friend is pointing out the reason why you should do it again is because you already learned his lessons.
Kevin: Hey. That's a nice compliment. Yeah. I think that's probably right. I think I think
Steve: Whereas if you hadn't learned that lesson before
Kevin: Well, I would've learned it with way bigger dollars. Yeah. It was would've learned it with but you're gonna learn it one way or the other. Mhmm. Right?
So luckily, learned some of it young.
Steve: So you've, done $10,000,000,000, right, in in volume?
Kevin: We've now funded, yeah, about over 10,000,000,000.
Steve: A lot of freaking money.
Kevin: Money. Lot of loans.
Steve: Yeah. This is and you said you restarted in 2010? Yes.
Kevin: We made our first loan in, September 2011.
Steve: Alright. So 2011. So in the last fourteen years
Kevin: Yep.
Steve: 10,000,000,000. And then, like, this year, it's, like, four of that.
Kevin: Yeah. This year, we're nearly four. Yep.
Steve: Which is a remarkable number. Why do people go to you? Right? This, I know James from multiple masterminds. He won't leave me alone.
He harasses me. Right?
Kevin: I don't file till that's true. But
Steve: but you're not the only game in town. Right? Like No. No. Every every mastermind I'm in
Kevin: Lot of great lenders out there.
Steve: Two, three, four lending organizations there. Yep. What is it that has been the key to success for you guys?
Kevin: I think what's been successful for us is, first of all, staying really true to who we really are. And what that means is, first of all, we're local. We obsess about customer service. We obsess about relationships. Mhmm.
And we we've we've taken the time to build a company that could do what we say. Yeah. It's really key. Right? Like and I I I don't think anyone should take that lightly.
Like, we work really, really hard that out of our 35 local offices, right, that are located in major US cities, When our teams are meeting with a, one of our clients and we walk a project and we say we're gonna do the project, we've built all the back office and the wherewithal to be able to do it. Mhmm. So when we issue a term sheet so we think about issuing LOI. We call them LOIs, letters of intent. Every week, we're trying to issue about 200 to 220 LOIs every week.
That's at Renovo, that's our
Steve: KPI.
Kevin: Yep. Key KPI. When we issue those, we have to honor them more or less. Right? Like Yeah.
Our reputation is on the line every day. So that's hard to do. But I think I think our clients would say that we do it. Mhmm. And the other thing that's a little unique about us is we've built our own in house servicing business.
So Renovo has an in house servicing business that is, I think, best in class. Yeah. So because customer service is so important to us, we we didn't wanna be one of those shops that originates your loan and then ships your loan for servicing somewhere else, and then you have to call that, you know, that other company to get your payoff or your payments or whatever. So we built Renovo loan servicing in house. We're servicing 20,000 loans right now.
So we have $10,000,000,000 outstanding in loans, 75 person team. But I think having the I was at dinner last night with some, of our clients here in at the conference, and and without even asking, they were explaining how much they really like that when they get a loan from Renovo that it's serviced at the same place. Yeah. That that really, you know, kinda resonate.
Steve: Why is service so important? I mean, we should all, like, appreciate service, especially kinda like it seems like these days, service is kinda be lacking for a lot of most organizations these days. But what is it about service that's so important to you?
Kevin: Look. I think it's just old school business. Honestly, I don't think it's first of all, I enjoy good service. Right? If I go somewhere and and and and I get a smile and and they take care of what I need taken care of, it just makes me feel better.
Mhmm. I'm willing to pay for that. Right? I'm willing to be like, hey. At convenience and taking care of stuff that I need done is is very important to me.
I think I don't know. I always gravitated toward, companies that have really good customer service. Mhmm. I think it it's proven that they are longer lasting. They make money.
Yeah. Their their employees are happy. I think it's a more sustainable business model, you know, for the long haul.
Steve: I mean, for sure, I am one of those people that I'm willing to pay a premium for good service, and there's nothing that drives more crazy. Like, I make decisions, like, I black list companies all the time. Never go in here again.
Kevin: Oh. Right? Yeah.
Steve: Just never go in here again.
Kevin: Yeah.
Steve: Actually, you know, we're talking about, like, lending and term sheets and, like, you know, like, we're doing this loan. For me, it's been a couple years. Not it's been a year since I did my last deal. But I remember, like, dealing with a major organization, large organization, competitor of yours, and everything was fine. Everything's fine.
Everything's fine. And, like, two days we're closed. Like, hey. Like, where are we? He's like, oh, well, you know, we need this.
Oh, hey. There's this. It's like, this homeowner, I made a promise to them. Totally. Yes.
I told them they would get their money on this day. We're gonna close on this date. They'd have their money that evening or the next day. You are making me look like a jerk.
Kevin: Totally.
Steve: This is a problem. Yes. Right? So I appreciate the the
Kevin: And and here's how we thank you for sharing that. I mean, look. And here's how we, here's so here's how we kinda how do I say this? Here's how we try to execute that. Have you ever heard of net promoter scores?
Steve: Yes. Okay.
Kevin: So it's probably been eight years now that we've had net promoter scores as part of our DNA at Renovo. So what that means is in our in our system, in our tech, if you borrow from Renovo when you close the loan, you're gonna get a little thing to your phone to ask for feedback and and, give us a response. When you're through the construction and when you're exiting, you're gonna and we're gonna ask you for that feedback. Our whole team is very incented, not on the score, but on response rate. So we want people to give us a response.
We wanna hear how we're doing.
Steve: Mhmm. It's
Kevin: like at the restaurant when the manager walks around, says, how are we doing? You need anything? You need this, you know, you need anything? That's our version of that. You need anything?
We get NPS results all day, every day coming in. You know what we do? They get emailed to everybody at Renovo all day. I mean, hundreds. So the transparency now when we were smaller, it was one a day, three a day.
But here's what would happen. I would I watched, though. Everyone And the whole company gets these things. Imagine the culture you create Mhmm. When all day, every day, every employee knows that they're on the spotlight.
Because if you gave bad service to Susie, one of our customers, and she does an NPS result and says, but, Steve didn't answer my phone call. Steve took two days to get back to me for my payoff. I didn't like that and hit submit. That gets sent to everyone at Renovo. Can you imagine the power of that?
Yeah. Many, many, many times, I'll be home on a Saturday night. I just happen to be checking my emails. And I remember one time, I a guy just reamed us out on the NPS. He just tore us to shreds, and I'm like, so I called him.
Right? I didn't know this guy. I just called him from my phone. I I he answers hello. I'm like, this is Kevin.
I'm a Renovo. I didn't say who I am, whatever. I'm like, listen. I just saw your result. He goes, yeah.
I just submitted that a minute ago. Like, I know. Tell me more. What happened? He tells what happened.
I go, man, I'm so sorry. Look. We're gonna refund that fee that fee. We're gonna refund you on Monday. Where do you live?
We send you a restaurant a gift card to a restaurant down the street. He was pissed off. There was something that happened at the closing that cost him, like, $400 extra. I'm like, we're refunding you the money, and I'm gonna send you to a restaurant. I'm gonna send you, like, a $250 gift card to a restaurant.
He's like, are you serious? He's like, I love you guys. I'm like, we just went from someone that hated us Mhmm. To now, at least, hopefully, I'm not gonna say loves us, but maybe maybe one day they'll love us. Right?
If we
Steve: We'll probably use you again.
Kevin: At least give us another chance. Right? I can't tell you.
Steve: On the blacklist.
Kevin: But even today, Steve, like, this week okay? Earlier this week, some borrower in Michigan, I don't know who they are, somehow we got my numb I got my email address and cc'd me on an email. She was pissed off that, something was miscommunicated in her deal about the appraisal. The appraisal was ordered. It wasn't ordered right.
Value came in wrong, and she messed up her deal. She was upset about it, and she emailed, like, a lot of us at Renovo. And what would a normal company do?
Steve: Make it take it very serious.
Kevin: Well, it depends. I don't think a normal company would respond, to be
Steve: honest.
Kevin: I think most companies would never respond. We called the borrower and said, thank you for the feedback. Really appreciate it. We're gonna refund your appraisal fee. So sorry that that happened, you know, and understand that you're mad.
But do what we can to make it right.
Steve: Right.
Kevin: Right? Like, quickly. Like like, jump on it. Do what we can to make it right.
Steve: Oh, what I love about your, model is that you're incentivized to get NPS scores. You're not incentivized to get a high NPS score, which is what kinda like, you know
Kevin: Like a car wash would do.
Steve: Yeah. Right. Right? Like, I mean, you I remember, like, going to Acura. Hey.
Can you make sure you give a five star?
Kevin: Yeah. We don't want that. Can you just make sure you give us a a response? Because response rate is what we want.
Steve: Right. So I like that. It's a different angle. The other one and this is gonna sound terrible. Right?
But, like, I love good service. We had a situation. I was at an event in Los Angeles, and I I touched down. My wife's like, hey. You know, it'd be great if I could stop by the hotel and, you know, freshen up.
I said, hey. You know, check ins at four. Let me call the hotel. Like, hey. No promises, but, like, you know, do you think is it possible for us to get something?
And she's like, we're actually I know the, the the cleaning service is in there right now. So in thirty minutes, maybe you'll be available. Mhmm. Okay. Fair.
I'll go get something to eat. Come by. I was like, hey. You know, is it ready? And she said, well, it's clean, but we need, someone to we need the manager to walk it for safety reasons.
I was like, okay. Like, where is the manager at? And this is their the middle of the World Series. So they're watching, like, the Dodgers in the World Series. Right?
Yeah. I was like, well, can we get the manager to walk it? Like, I'm going to an event. My wife would like to freshen up. And instead of the manager going to walk room so we can check-in, I get this other guy that's wearing a Dodgers jersey.
Right? It's like, okay. Casual. Here's a nice hotel. Right?
On the on on the water. Kinda casual, but I get it. You're in the world series. Right? And he's like, you know, the and his attitude was very different as a lady who was trying to be helpful.
He was just rude. And so for me, I was like, I guess that's the manager. Right? He's like, no. It's not gonna be in.
Your check-in's at four. It's not gonna be ready till four. It's like, okay. That was weird. It's in a huge butt face.
I understand that's part you know, like, that's part of the rules, but fine. You know? Whatever. So I left. Well, my wife went to go change in the bathroom, did whatever.
On the way out, I was asked the the nice lady. Hey. Like, is that your manager? She said, no. That's actually that's my colleague.
Like, he's the other front desk person. I was like, that was kinda weird. So on the way out, I was like, hey. Can you do me a favor? Like, when you see the manager, he let her know that that guy that wore the dirty Dodgers jersey, he sucks ass.
So I said to her. That's what I said to her. Right? Like, just let her know. That's how I feel.
She said, okay. I'll let her know. So we go to the event, come back that night, and we did a check-in thing. Right? And you get a survey, text message.
How are you enjoying this day? I go back go back in there. Very disappointed with the check-in process. Leave the next day. Never once reached out to.
Kevin: Still don't Still. See, that's crazy. Because at Renovo so if you do an m p an MPS thing to us and you score us an eight or below
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: It's one through 10.
Steve: What sucks ass? What's that? Is that one?
Kevin: One sucks ass. Yeah. Yes. Eight or below. If you score us at eight or below, a manager is gonna call you within one hour.
Yeah. There's no way one hour. We all see it, and we have managers all lined up that if that happens, they're gonna call you and say, what happened? Yeah. You know?
Because people don't give an eight if they're happy. No. Right? Like, a little something piss you off with an eight.
Steve: Yeah. So, yeah, I wasn't disappointed with the bad experience. I mean, I was. I was mostly disappointed that they didn't care Yeah. That I had a bad experience.
Kevin: Yeah. Look. It takes a lot to care. You know? I think it takes a lot.
Like, you know, we're we're a small company compared to probably that hotel company.
Steve: Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're a major brand,
Kevin: but still But it takes so much effort, you know, to care. But I think that's what business is all about. Like, we're in business to serve the customer Yeah. Not to serve ourselves.
Steve: And then, I was sharing, with James earlier. So, Travis, you're a Denver guy. Yeah. Right? He actually flew out here to Scottsdale.
We had an event for Well Club. Paul Sparks and I were running Well Club together at the time. And one of the things I liked about Travis was that he's an actual operator.
Kevin: Mhmm.
Steve: Right? He's not a lender who only does loans. Not not that there's anything wrong with that, but he brings a different background to the conversation. He'll actually help you underwrite the deal in the way that he would buy it. Yes.
Not as the way, like, hey, I have to protect the bank. Right? It's like, here's Or
Kevin: a partner mindset or
Steve: Or a partner mindset. Really appreciated that. And then we had, Santini on the show. Yeah. Santini Lancione, for those who don't know, about a year ago now.
It was one of our one of our most viewed, episodes. And one of the things we talked about was how he was running, like, these big events where, like, buyers were coming, wholesalers were coming, lenders were coming. Right? But, like, everything you need to run a successful wholesaling operation. Right?
You got people bringing you deals. You got people that sell deals too, and you got lenders that are qualifying these buyers.
Kevin: Yep.
Steve: Right? And the key to all that is actually Renovo. So talk to me about how you guys came up with a strategy to support wholesalers. Yep. Do more deals.
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Kevin: If you like what you just heard and would like similar types of success, text close to 33777, and we'll see if you qualify to join objection proof selling. We're taking good sales reps, and we're making them objection proof. Thank you for saying that. So it all goes back to when when when me and my my high school friend, Tony, were were flipping homes and wholesaling properties, we loved the only thing we loved more was throwing parties. And we would throw great parties, and we would we would we would invite our clients and our real estate people and our buyers and our realtors and all these people.
And we we kinda learned that you know what? If you get people together and you throw a nice event, it's more powerful. It it was on brand for us. Like, it was like who we were. We liked getting people together.
We love throwing parties. So when we started Renovo, we kinda started that same thing. And and so we started in Chicago, and we would start throwing local events. And we would bring together our client, you know, our borrowers, our, wholesalers, realtors, city officials. Seriously.
Like, we bring we try to get we try to curate an amazing room. If you're a wholesaler, you're bringing gold to the room. You really are. You're bringing the shovel that is needed to be honest to God. You're you're
Steve: It feeds everyone else. It feeds everybody.
Kevin: You're built you're bringing shovels to a construction site that that are needed, and you should feel that way. You know? You should feel you should really feel that way. And you're you're so if you go into a Renovo event, we have we're we're doing about, an event every other week in in a major US city where there's at least a 100 people that are there, and they're serious people. I was just in Minnesota two weeks ago at our we had a awesome Renovo event in Minnesota, Yeah.
And it was a 100 people in the room, very qualified investors, active developers, active buyers. I mean, there was there was there was a billion dollars of buying capacity in that room now that I'm thinking about it. There was a billion dollars in that room of buying capacity.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: I don't know a better room as a wholesaler to walk into.
Steve: Right.
Kevin: You know? As long as you can talk. I would say you gotta be able to talk, and you had to be able to, you know, make real build relationships Mhmm. And bring shovels
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: You know, to that room.
Steve: Yeah. So, again, I I that's something unique that, I know when I talked to Santini. Because, like, again, one of the things on that podcast, like, we weren't talking about how many deals. I mean, we talked about it, but the highlight wasn't how many deals. It wasn't this much revenue.
It's like, here's how much profit I'm making. Mhmm. Right? Like, his his whole thing is, like, all I care about is growing my profit. And for him, what you were saying was the key to growing profit was having a lender partner who will help promote you to more people so that you can do more deals?
Kevin: It's genius Mhmm. And it's not that hard. Right? All of us lenders wanna put money out. Right?
We we we're only in business to make loans. So we wanna put money out, and developers want to develop, and wholesalers have the goods. So, you know, use us. You know? Whether it's Renovo or another lender, you know, use our networks.
If I was to become a wholesaler tomorrow in a new city, I would go find the lenders Mhmm. And become buddies with the lenders.
Steve: Alright. Still waiting for your Phoenix counterpart. Have you guys found one yet?
Kevin: No. I need your help.
Steve: I actually connected a couple of people to James. So, I wanna, hit on some more things. But before we do that, guys, real quick, this episode is brought to you by Beck CFO, the go to tax and CFO firm for real estate entrepreneurs. If you're making money in real estate and you're not confident you're paying the least amount legally possible in taxes, you need Beck CFO. They specialize in entity structuring, tax strategy, the CFO level support that saves their clients thousands every year.
I use them for tax planning, and you should book a free consultation. Beccfl.com is beccfo.com. Now for you guys, if I read this correctly, you're now the second largest originator for residential investor real estate loans in The US.
Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. It's probably true.
Steve: It's a remarkable statistic.
Kevin: Oh, thanks.
Steve: So I imagine there's probably a lot of work you had to do cultural culturally with an organization Yes. To make that happen. And particularly, like me, how many people are at the company now? Like, 350. 350.
So I think, you know, in this conversation, it it brings to mind, Tony Hsieh's book, Delivering Happiness.
Kevin: You gotta be kidding.
Steve: What?
Kevin: I was gonna bring that up, like, twenty minutes ago. I swear. When you were asking me, like, where this all came from on the on the, customer service side, I was gonna bring up Tony Hsieh and the book.
Steve: It's one of my favorite books.
Kevin: Me too.
Steve: Yeah. Which is, again,
Kevin: why we black people Tony Hsieh.
Steve: I I Never got a chance to meet him. I did. Couple of times. Yeah. Talking about parties.
Kevin: Totally. I afterward, I'll tell you some actually great funny Tony Shea stories. He's,
Steve: a wonderful guy. As long as there's nothing crazy here, we can nothing too too crazy you can talk about.
Kevin: Well, here's what happened. I I, yeah. Listen to this. So I admired what he built a lot, and I I of, Daniel, my partner told me that he wrote a book. I'm like, oh, I gotta read it.
So I'm re I read the book, and I this is gonna sound funny. I'm as at the same time that I'm reading the book, in the morning, I go out my gym in the morning to go to the gym at, like, 06:00 in the morning. I look in Chicago. There's a huge bus that's got Tony Hsieh's face on it. It says delivering happiness.
It was like his bus tour. And I'm like for for the book. I'm like, I get to the gym, and I'm thinking, wait a second. Tony's probably in the bus. I gotta go meet him.
Yeah. So I, like, run back, and I, like, run up to the bus. Then it's, like, 07:00 in the morning. I'm, like, knocking on the door. And they're like, no.
No. No. He's in the hotel sleeping. Come back in the afternoon. Yeah.
So I come back in the afternoon, and Tony invites me on the bus, and he was wonderful. We hung out. I told him all about what I was doing. He told me what he was doing. He took me and my wife out that night to a nightclub with all their friends.
Mhmm. And, actually, we stayed in touch for a while.
Steve: Yeah. So
Kevin: it was just funny that I happened to meet him at the same oh, no. Let me finish that. So sorry. There's a better part. I said, can you do me a favor?
I said, Daniel, my partner, is the one that gave me your book. He really, you know, would love to meet you. Any way we can surprise him. He's like, oh, yeah. And, he's like, actually, as a matter of fact, tomorrow, I'm meeting Andrew Mason who was the Groupon CEO.
Steve: Okay.
Kevin: I'm meeting Andrew for drinks at Motel Bar. Why don't you just tell Daniel that you're just gonna go to Motel Bar and have a drink with him. Don't tell him why. Mhmm. And then we'll just hang out there.
I'm like, amazing. So me and Daniel go to Motel Bar the next day, and we're sitting at a table. And all of a sudden, Tony Hsieh comes walking over and sits down with us. And Daniel's like, what in the heck is happening? But his his approach to customer service and customer obsession and culture Mhmm.
Had such a huge impact on, or influence on me.
Steve: So one of the things and I was asking how big the company is because one of the things, I can't remember if it was Tony or if it was, Seth Godin with, Tribes. The 150 is about the number of people you can have where, like, you know who that is. You know their face, you walk down the the hallway Yep. And you can ask them how they're doing. Yeah.
About a 150. Do you feel like you're still there at 350? Because it sounds like you you built a great culture.
Kevin: Yeah. Thanks. No. No. We're not I'm not we're not there because there's many times I'm in the elevator in Chicago, and we each hit 30, 31.
And I look, and I'm like, don't know them. Like, hi. And they're looking at me, and they and they know me. I'm like, I'm Kevin. It happens in the lunchroom sometimes.
I'll go in the lunchroom, and sometimes there'll be, like, a newer employee, younger person, and I'll, like, get something to drink, and I'll start talking to them. And it happened, like, this summer. This young guy is like, so what do you do, Kevin? Here. Yeah.
Oh, nice to I'm just and the whole table's laughing at this. But it's very hard. It is really hard to keep, I think that's right. A hundred, hundred fifty. There's some number that it just gets hard.
But it doesn't mean you can't, you know, try like, one one thing we do at Renovo, also that was is key to our culture that we adopted through COVID. So when COVID hit, everyone went home. Mhmm.
Steve: And we
Kevin: were like, how do we keep the culture alive? You know, we got people working all over the place. So what we started doing is setting up Camp Renovo. So we rented this little camp site basically in Northwest Michigan. And about four times a year, we get a a bunch of departments together.
Mhmm. We send them there on retreats, and we do camper novo for two days. So a lot of the team now comes into Chicago, gets on a bus, and it's only about an hour bus ride out to this little camp. And we bring in chefs, and we hang out, and it's, it's a really cool
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: Camp experience. But that's part of the culture. Mhmm. Like, you gotta spend time together and hang out. And I also think an important part of culture is not only hanging out, it's growth.
And I'm not saying growth as a company, but growth is people. Yeah. Like, I think people want to grow. Mhmm. And at Renova, we have to find ways to help people grow.
Does that make sense? Like What
Steve: does that mean? Like, help them help them grow?
Kevin: Help them training. Like, we have tons of training at Renovo. We we hire outside sales trainers. We hire outside customer service specialists to come in Mhmm. And give training.
We do a Top Gun event every year where we actually take our top sales team and we go. We have the world's best sales trainers come in Mhmm. And spend two, three days, doing trainings with us. Yeah. So it's really in an effort to constant never ending improvement.
Steve: Right.
Kevin: Can I you probably heard that before? Yeah. Of of helping people grow because I think that's what makes a culture people show up to work, and they want to do well and grow, and I think that's an important part.
Steve: But, I mean, some of the 150 people, it's not only salespeople there.
Kevin: No. It's not. I I I highlighted sales, but, you know, we have to make sure we're doing it on the credit side, on the loan servicing side, operations, everything. Everyone and it's hard when we're not perfect at it, but we have to be doing investing in our team.
Steve: Is there a person at this size? Because, again, the commitment to it, where, like, one person is, like, the chief culture officer.
Kevin: We have a chief people officer. Okay. And, yeah. So is
Steve: that what they do? Because, like, a book that I read recently was the dream manager. Right? And where they just they hire this one person, and all they do is just help everyone to the company dream. Right?
Like, what that.
Kevin: You gotta send me that. What wait. It's a book? Yeah. It's called dream manager?
Steve: Dream manager. Yeah. I gotta get that. Yeah. But, basically, like, hey.
Let me help you develop like, what is your five year goal? Oh, I love that. Let me help you get
Kevin: there.
Steve: Oh, I Right? And then they have a personalized plan for every employee.
Kevin: To get that. No. Look. That's a great we would love to do I would love to see that happen. Like, that that kind of stuff is is, what we what we need to do more of.
Steve: Got it. And then let's see what else there was. You got some crazy war stories, I I imagine. Right? Any fascinating war stories and, like, you're I mean, the second largest, you you're in 4,000,000,000.
Like, there's gotta be some, like
Kevin: What do
Steve: you mean? Like, what kind of I can't believe this happened, whether it was a scenario, a person you ran into, or, I don't know. I'm just thinking, like, you've got so much experience. There's gotta be, like, some crazy stories that, like I mean,
Kevin: I've had borrowers go to jail. I've closed loans in prisons before. I don't know if that if it's part of what you're saying.
Steve: I don't Run ins. I know you you you're you've you you seem to be connected with a lot of big players in the space. There's, we've talked about Dan Gilbert before the show, but, like, I imagine there's all these other guys that, seems like you you know all the other big bankers.
Kevin: I it's a friendly industry, so I think most of us tend to kinda like each other and, you know, we frenemy kinda thing. You know, we're we're we're all competing, but there's a few of us that are really tight. Like and we share a lot of information. Like, yeah. So I don't know if there's any war story about I mean, look.
COVID was a was a was a terrible time. There there was rough times that all of us have gone through in this business. I don't know what I don't know if James, am I missing it? Is there anything that I turned to James?
Steve: Alright. Can I call
Kevin: a friend?
Steve: Call a friend.
Kevin: Can I call
Steve: I I was, I was thinking about that one when Chicago went on for, like, twelve years?
Kevin: Oh, yeah. I got two funny ones now. Alright. Thank you for that. So one, I made a a one year construction loan to a friend that was doing a condo project.
It was only supposed to be a year. I made the we made the loan at the exact same time I had my second daughter, Stella. Stella turned seven, and the loan still wasn't paid off. And, that that got ugly. Me me and, the
Steve: The friend.
Kevin: That friend have had some trouble. So that didn't go great.
Steve: Some of your loan?
Kevin: It's it we're now exited it. We unfortunately had to foreclose and exited the loan ourselves. That was not fun. But, you know, years ago, I will tell you, we got involved with some New Jersey condo projects that were were so unique because the developer, slick guy, when I met him, I thought for sure he was George Clooney's brother. He looked like George Clooney.
He talked like George Clooney. He was, like, slick, and he was a condo builder in in, Hoboken, New Jersey or Jersey City. Sorry. And one deal went fine. Second deal went fine.
Then the deal started to have a little problem here and there. Running long, fighting with the contractor, bigger fights with the contractors, contractor leans start showing up on the property. All of a sudden, the mafia gets involved. I'm not kidding.
Steve: Saying I'm thinking like Sopranos.
Kevin: Oh, this is Sopranos. Yeah. All of a sudden, our guy gets, like, tied up in the mafia. In he borrowed some money from some wrong people.
Steve: Okay? I see.
Kevin: And they placed some liens on the property, and they were not the exact they did some the craziest stuff that I had never seen as a lender before that I couldn't dream up that people were doing. It took years and years and years of going to court to be able to get the judge to to be willing to un to relinquish some of these liens on the property that we needed. I mean, I was doing conference calls with guys on the phone that I was I was like, guys, this is really like, these are it was it was it was it was pretty interesting.
Steve: What were some creative techniques or tactics that you'd never seen before that were most creative?
Kevin: You know, so what they did is they they were basically trying to figure out a way to not only screw the our client, but come aft to basically get us to negotiate. Mhmm. So they sold a piece of land to our guy, our borrower, and the consideration and they closed on it. Okay? They closed the transaction, and the consideration was a profit participation in our property that they recorded.
That was the consideration for the land. Mhmm. Well, that's tricky. Mhmm. Because you go to us trying to foreclose on that document, the it's well, what is this document?
It's a profit interest in this other property. It's very ambiguous.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: And especially in a place in New Jersey, they'll let that sit in court for years.
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: Years. I had never. It's one thing if a disgruntled contractor places a lien on a property.
Steve: Right.
Kevin: It sucks.
Steve: It's a procedure.
Kevin: But there's a procedure for it.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: It's one thing if partners are fighting. Mhmm. There's procedures for that. But when the mafia gets involved and and does a fake land sale and the consider it sells you a piece of land, and then what what he gave is consideration is a profit interest in our property. Mhmm.
And that thing was recorded. It just was the most I was like, oh, we're we're screwed. Like, it's gonna take us and what they wanted, they would call and say give us $300. We'll release it. Mhmm.
It was base it was literally extortion. It was
Steve: a shakedown.
Kevin: It was the piece of paper was worth nothing. Like, the the sale was fake. It was nothing. It was all fake. But they knew that that was a complicated thing that is gonna take years.
So
Steve: Someone really smart on their payroll.
Kevin: I don't know about payroll, but, yes. Someone smart was making some money organization. In the organization. Right. It was it was it was yes.
That's exactly right.
Steve: Yeah.
Kevin: Ultimately, after a long, long, long time, the judge did release it, but it took a long time.
Steve: See, I'd be nervous even, like, trying to, like, get that removed.
Kevin: I'm nervous talking about it. Yeah. But I knew there had to be some sort of crazy work No. There's a lot more like that. Yeah.
Steve: You're right.
Kevin: Thank you for asking. Yeah.
Steve: And then the the the last part I want to touch on is, you're building a company to last. You're not from what I'm hearing, this is you're not building a company to sell. Yep. You're building a company to last. Yep.
So talk to me about, like, the considerations, why this model versus, you know like, right now, there's all this stupid money coming in from private equity and this and that.
Kevin: Yeah.
Steve: Why this decision? What are the
Kevin: What decision? Why build it to why build it to last?
Steve: Build it to last versus build it to sell. Right? Because I think there's different approaches, different
Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's interesting. I like, I think it comes down to what what me and the rest of the senior team at Renovo wanna do every day.
Mhmm. All of us love what we do. Yeah. We're building something together. We're in business.
We're going to work every day. And what else would we do? Mhmm. Like, I I've I'd if the company were to sell first of all, if company was to get sold, the company is worth the people. Right?
So we have to go along with it. There's no one that's gonna just buy the company and say go off and go go sail the ocean or whatever. So that doesn't accomplish anything necessarily because now we gotta work for someone else that's gonna tell us how to do things, maybe right, maybe wrong. I don't know. Yeah.
It doesn't mean, by the way, that we haven't, you know, the company has raised equity over the years. The company's done a bunch of things financially. It's not like we haven't done things, to to does that make sense? So we've done things, to monetize the business and capitalize and recapitalize the company.
Steve: Right.
Kevin: But, look, it's just been our our position that the team in place is the is the best team to run the company. Mhmm. And that we I'm 48. I'm the oldest person on the, senior team by about, I don't know, at least five year maybe four, five, six years, something like that. The young team.
The young team. So, you know, when we look around, we're like, we have this, you know, really awesome, talented, excited, passionate group of people that are waking up every single day moving forward together. What else are we gonna do? Yeah. I don't know.
Steve: So you're obviously very passionate about lending. Right? I mean
Kevin: Too much. Right? You may Too much.
Steve: It's it's in the next fine. Right? Because, like, you did it before. You did some other stuff, but you all your heart came back to lending. Yeah.
Why lending versus anything else? Because we were talking in the beginning, like, the grass is always greener. Why do you love lending?
Kevin: I I don't know that I it's hard to answer, because I don't think one's better than the other. I don't I I think it's all Yeah.
Steve: It's not one's better than the other, but there's one you're more passionate about.
Kevin: Well, if I was to summarize it, I will say this. When I was my my parents got divorced when I was young. Mhmm. And money was a stressful topic during that period. Very stressful topic a lot during my childhood.
And I did feel like I always wanted to learn about money. As a little kid, I didn't like that stress, and I was like, I wanna learn about money. Like, I was selling ice to my neighbors when I was five years old, trying to make money. Like, anything I could do to, like, make money and learn how to not have stress about money was very important to me. So I think getting involved in my dad's loan company as a kid, part of it was I wanna learn about money.
And I really do believe if you the more you can learn, lending is a way to learn about money. Right? Like, it it it it it there's a there's a real learning to money if you're lending it and dealing with it and and and all that stuff. So I think it just became kind of a passion through that process. I I didn't even realize it till I I haven't I didn't realize it till I was older that I think that was a big part of it
Steve: Mhmm.
Kevin: Of wanting to learn how money worked, and lending was like a vehicle for that. I think that was a big piece. Number two, I think whether I like it or not, it's all I've ever done. Yeah. So I think why would I throw away all this, you know, thirty years now or whatever, twenty five, thirty years of of, doing this?
Mhmm.
Steve: So Well, it's interesting talking about, like, the pursuit and learning about money. Like, because, I remember when when I read Delivering Happiness, I actually made everyone in the company read as well. Nice. And, my executive assistant at the time, she was reading, she was like, this is your story. Right?
Like, this hustle, selling things, trying to make money when you're eight. Right? Yep. And, you know, looking back later on, I was like, well, where did that come from? It's mom and dad fighting about money.
Kevin: Oh, seriously?
Steve: Yeah. So, like, this is the same thing. Like, you know, like, why am I obsessed with money or I'm not as obsessed with eight. My my kids will argue differently. But, like, for it, it's it's just a scorecard.
Right? Yeah. It's just like, how well am I doing? That's such as one way to measure it. Yeah.
But the the hustle, the I gotta, make a buck while I'm selling candy in third grade. Yes. I think it comes from, like, mom and dad fighting about money growing up.
Kevin: Same here. Yeah.
Steve: So, I want you to think about some of the last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners with. Guys, if you have value from this episode, please make sure you subscribe. That way we, we got we can reach more people, create more millionaires, really serve our mission. And if you guys, you know, share your biggest takeaway, comment below. We review every single one, respond to them.
So it really help us out if you could share your biggest takeaways. What are some last words you'd like to leave all the listeners with?
Kevin: I think for those that are focused on wholesaling and building wholesale businesses, if you are not connected to your local lender or three or four local or every local lender, you're kinda missing out.
Steve: Yeah. So
Kevin: I think they you know, I'm glad that that became a hot topic in this episode because to me, it's a no brainer. As a lender, we were dying for people to call us and tell us, hey. We have properties. We wanna sell you know? Come on.
Let's go. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of there's unbelievable partnerships that could be had between a lender and wholesaler.
Steve: Yeah. Well, I think that's a relationship that's definitely not explored and talked about enough. No. And the reason why I say that even more so now on top of what Renova does, but, like, there's no one that knows who has money better than the lender. Right?
Kevin: Yes.
Steve: You've got their social, their date of birth. Yes. You're pulling it. Oh, no.
Kevin: That's a good point. Look. What happened that's let me let me touch on that because recently you're exactly right. There was a wholesaler wholesaling a property in Florida. Let me get the let me think about this.
The buyer of the property happened to be in Ohio, and somehow the buyer in Florida some one of them met me at one of our events. Mhmm. And the buyer was saying that they're a Renovo client. Mhmm. So this sorry.
The seller wanted to know, does this person really have money or not? Mhmm. Because they had to make a decision whether to accept this offer or someone else's offer. Mhmm. So I get a text one night in the middle of the night from someone I barely know, but, you know, hey.
Can you double check for me if this person's qualified? Mhmm. It's like, yeah. So I made a couple phone calls and whatever, and I got back. I'm like, yeah.
Yeah. So you're exactly right. Use the partner with the lender. Yeah. Why not?
There's no downside. Only upside from that. Yeah. They should definitely go online on the lenders.
Steve: Yeah. They know more about people's finances than anybody else.
Kevin: Hopefully. Yes.
Steve: Yeah. So, someone wants to connect with you, your organization. What's the best way for them to do that?
Kevin: Well, renovofinancial.com is our, web address. My email is Kevin@RenovoFinancial.com. Love to talk to your your team.
Steve: Awesome. Perfect. Thank you so much.
Kevin: Thanks for coming on. Having me.
Steve: Thank you guys for watching.
Kevin: We'll see
Steve: you guys next time. Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
