Steve Trang interviews John Gafford, founder of Simply Vegas, about building a $2 billion real estate empire. Gafford shares his journey from managing nightclubs to starring on The Apprentice to creating a luxury-focused brokerage with 585 agents. He reveals his '2-2-1' business strategy and emphasizes the importance of vertical integration through title and mortgage companies.
Use the '2-2-1' business strategy: maintain two proven revenue streams while testing one experimental opportunity to catch the next wave
Build a vertically integrated real estate business by owning title, mortgage, and related service companies to maximize profitability
Hire and fire based on core values - be willing to let go of top producers who don't align with company integrity standards
1:55:06Josh Stech, founder of LendingHome and Sundae, shares how he built a billion-dollar real estate lending company in just five years, scaling to 14% market share. He discusses the venture capital playbook, hiring at scale, maintaining culture with 500+ employees, and his transition to solving the property sourcing problem for investors through Sundae's marketplace model.
1:50:17Steve Trang interviews Damon Lyons of Sellers Advantage, who shares his journey from losing everything in the 2008 financial crisis to building a $30 million assignment fee business. Lyons discusses his evolution from loan officer to foreclosure auction specialist with Posted Properties, then to direct-to-consumer house buying, revealing the systems and massive marketing spend that enabled his California operation to dominate the market.
Get a free AI-powered review of your sales calls. See exactly where you're losing deals and how to fix it.
Get notified when new episodes drop, plus a free AI call review.
Focus on quality over quantity by regularly purging non-performing agents every six months to maintain a high-performance culture
When facing rejection, evaluate your downside risk and create memorable value that aligns with what the other party actually needs
”“Currently, where I sit is I'm dead. I'm done. I just cooked myself in that room. So my downside is zero. My upside is this dream opportunity. So I have the choice to go make one balls out moment that they're gonna remember forever that's gonna get me on this show.”
”“You always have to do two always be working the two things that are tried and true. But you always have to have that third flyer. I'm not always right, but I'm right a lot.”
”“In order to really be successful in the brokerage business, you have got to be vertically integrated. If you're not vertically integrated, it's a problem.”
”“Your core values of your company have gotta matter. And they've gotta be in lockstep, and you've gotta make decisions based on those things. And they can't just be words on a wall.”
27555 words
John Gaffer: Bam. They hit the walls. I walk in. Everybody everybody jumps. I walk in.
And I just look at Mark Burnett, and I said, let me tell you something, buddy. Let me tell you why you should put me on your little television show. When you make an investment in me, you get back a 100 times if you invest. And I reached in my pocket, pulled out a bag of M and M's, and I threw him in his face, and I wore a shirt after on the other side. I was like, not
Steve Trang: it. Yeah.
John: And the reason I tell that story is because it's a valuation. Currently, where I sit is I'm dead. I'm done. I just cooked myself in that room. So my downside is zero.
My upside is this dream opportunity. So I have the choice to go make one balls out moment Mhmm. That they're gonna remember forever that's gonna get me on this show. My little M and M rebellion accomplished both of those things. So, yeah, I went up there and they said, I went from walking resume guy to here's a dude that's gonna make some ratings.
Steve: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have John Gaffer with Simply Vegas, and John flew him from Vegas to share how he built a $2,000,000,000 company. Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire. In the next five to seven years, if you'll take consistent action, you will become one.
And, guys, if you're already a millionaire, we wanna recognize you here on the show. Please scan that QR code. Likewise, if you need some help getting there, scan that same QR code as well. And before we jump in, if you're here to learn how real entrepreneurs are building real empires, please hit that subscribe button because you might hear something that will help you build your first or next million. And, guys, right now, you have a 100,000, 250,000, or even more sitting in your CRM, and you can resurrect all your old and dead leads with our objection proof AI calling agent.
Text cash to 33777. Now to unlock the money that's hanging out in your CRM, that's Cash33777. You ready?
John: Yeah, man.
Steve: Alright. So I'm super excited for this. You've done a lot of stuff that, basically, I tell people not to do. Right?
John: Yeah.
Steve: So I was really impressed to hear your story. But before we get into all that, I wanna talk about what your life was like before you got into real estate.
John: Yeah. I didn't find I had a lot of cool jobs. Right? I had a lot of running nightclubs in my early twenties. I was a multiunit manager for Hooters of America, which in your early twenties is a cool job, and and did a lot of cool stuff.
But I didn't make any money. I had no wealth. I was just kind of going along with the whims, and much of my life was kinda decided by the whims of others. Right? Like, I'd get a call and, like, you're moving to Oklahoma City tomorrow.
I'm sorry. What? Mhmm. And, yeah, your job as well was for Yeah. Yeah.
It was just and I got moved all over The States, and it happened a lot. Mhmm. And it wasn't until I kinda decided, man, I need to take some control of my own trajectory.
Steve: Well, before we get into
John: that Yeah.
Steve: From what I understand Yeah. Because I was never in this position. When you get moved around a lot to other locations, it's because you're good at what you do.
John: It's not
Steve: like you're you suck at your job, John. We're gonna put you at a different location.
John: Yeah. I I get I would get calls from the president of the company, and it started with what, and then it finished with where. Because they they my first store that they gave me as a general manager in my young, young twenties was the worst store in the whole company. And I turned that thing around into having the highest the highest increased margins in the entire operation.
Steve: We're talking about we're still talking about this.
John: That restaurant. Yeah. Hooters. That restaurant won awards for that, which is why they started moving me around.
Steve: Right.
John: But here's here's the worst part. I talk about this also in the book about learning to play the rules, the real rules of what you're doing. There's unwritten rules. And within that company at the time, there's this unwritten rule that if you move around a lot, you do for the company, it'll advance your career faster.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: And I learned that really was just a fallacy. It's something that just went around to get people to move. It didn't matter. Because there was another person that had as high as I got, multiunit with them, there was another guy in Atlanta that had reached the same level and never left Atlanta. And at one point, I was dragging my right hand guy around the country.
His name was Dave, and he was just really good at what he did. We were kind of the Jordan and Pippa and the Hooters. So I took him everywhere I went, and he was having some family issues back in Atlanta. We were in Michigan. And so I went to a meeting, and I said, hey.
You know, Dave has done for the company. He's moved all Saint Louis. He's been here. He's been there. Now he's in Michigan.
I gotta gotta get him back to Atlanta. We need to open up a store for him to be the GM of down there. And this guy, Todd, that had the same job I did that had never left Atlanta said, I don't know. Like, but who cares if he moved around? And I was like, I wanted to jump across the table and ring the guy's neck.
And I was like because I'd been all over the place. And I was like and I realized in that moment, I I shouldn't even be mad at him. I should be mad at myself because I bought into this fallacy Mhmm. When I could've just said, no. I'm gonna stay here, and I probably would've the same exact trajectory I did.
Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, so often we get caught up in what we perceive as the rules, but they're not real.
Steve: Well, they're unwritten.
John: Yeah. They're unwritten. That's in the book.
Steve: It wasn't promised to you. Yeah. You heard it. You ran with it.
John: Yeah. Exactly.
Steve: Yeah. There was the, there was not inspecting what you were expecting. No. Got it. Not.
Okay. Alright. So you moved all around. Alright. Sorry.
I interrupted you. So what
John: was No. No. You're good.
Steve: So then what happened after that?
John: So after that, like, you know, of course, a bunch of cool jobs. And then I I was in the nightclub business for a long time at, like, 27. I had, like, bleeding ulcers because I was working, like, sixteen hours a day. And, like, my diet my my diet was, like, maker's mark in cigarettes. And yeah.
I know. Gross. But it was terrible. And so I called my buddy who was a vice president of WorldCom. And I said, everybody tells me I should be in sales.
Give me a job in sales. And he was like, I can't give you a job in sales. You have no experience. So I was like, okay. Well, what do I do?
He goes, we got two choices. What are they? He goes, you can go sell Kirby vacuum cleaners or you can go sell cars. And I was like, oh.
Steve: There was no opportunity at WorldCom.
John: No. Not not for me unless I had some experience. So I said, okay. Sure. Great.
Yeah. Okay. So I wasn't gonna sell Kirby vacuum cleaner. So I said, I'm gonna go sell cars for ninety days. And I made that decision, and that taught me.
That was the first time I'd come off of kind of the w two angle and really was depending on myself and realized that I didn't need anybody else to help me because I could really get good at something. And my own merits, my own skills, my own work ethic could result in an income far more than what I was.
Steve: That was the first time your eyes were open to the fact that
John: To really that much. You had to get off the w two.
Steve: Well, just to recognize that you could be compensated based off your value.
John: Yeah. And I and I did that for exactly ninety days, and then moved to Florida to start a multilevel marketing company with my sister. Mhmm. And that morphed into the insurance agency, which then morphed into all of these had pretty good success. They did pretty well.
I was making decent money, but, again, not acquiring any wealth. Not not really getting it right.
Steve: What's interesting here was takeaway for me, right, and probably for a lot of people listening is like, hey. Go get some experience, and then we'll hire you. But that's not how we do it in real estate.
John: No. It's not. In real estate. Not.
Steve: Right? So I've had the brokerage. Yeah. Right? And I had the wholesale organization.
And it's like, hey. You know, I wanna work for you. And it's like, okay. Like
John: Come on down. I do it a little differently. We're gonna get we're gonna do it.
Steve: Do it differently. Yeah. But it wasn't before. No. Right before, it was like, you got a pulse?
John: And can you pay my fee? Come on down.
Steve: Yeah. Right? So, like, you know, you graduate real estate school. Okay. You wanna get in real estate?
Alright. Join my brokerage.
John: Yeah.
Steve: Right?
John: We're gonna use that meets and bounds measurement all the time. Right. And just
Steve: like And then it was like, hey. I wanna get into wholesale. And what have you done? It's like, I just wanna get in there. Al Hawes was like, alright.
If you're willing to hit the phones, you're willing to make the dials, and you find out fairly quickly that 80% will never make the calls. Right? But it was like, you're willing to make the calls? Come on in. I'll pay for the marketing.
We'll we'll we'll make this work.
John: Mhmm.
Steve: But WorldCom is definitely a lot further along than I was.
John: Yeah. Ex well, exactly. Early on. Exactly, they were. But the first time I real but the, like, the biggest pivot moment for me that changed my life was obviously The Apprentice and not for the reason you would think.
It's not because I was on television, not because of all of that. It was the first time I was ever around 18 people that were just getting it. Like, the all the other contestants on the show were just really, really successful. And I walked into that room, and after a couple of days, I realized two things in that room. Number one, I was probably top five smartest people there.
Mhmm. I knew that out of the 18. And I was probably also bottom three doing the best as far as money as far as making money.
Steve: Yeah.
John: And that disparity hit me pretty hard. I was like, well, wait a second. Hang on a minute. If I'm smarter than these people, why are they doing so much? Like, how's this dude making a million dollars a year?
Mhmm. What am I doing wrong? And after that show was over, I would I had exited a tech firm that I was working for, and Kendra Todd, that won my season, who's in the boardroom with us, called me up and said, what are you doing? And I'm like, so I'm sitting on my boat. What do you mean what are you doing?
I was a little bit damp at the time. She's like, you can't just sit on your boat. I'm like, you don't know me very well, number one. She's like, come get a real estate license with me. It'll be fun.
And that is how the real estate honestly started.
Steve: When when was this?
John: 2006. Right in right in the end of the boom. Mhmm. And it's funny, man. You you see the waves of real estate.
And one of the things that I'll say I've always been has been the hallmark of my career has always been catching what's next.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: Right? And I have a method on how I'm always able to do that. But when I got in with Kendra, her thing was remember SunVest? Remember those? How long have you been doing it?
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
John: SunVest. They did condo conversion projects. Mhmm. Had them here in Phoenix. Had them in Vegas.
Had them in Miami.
Steve: Sold of them.
John: All of the hot spots. Right? So our job was we were the marketing arm for SunVest, and we would go do we would go do real estate roadshows in, like, San Francisco, where we would stand up, we'd pitch five projects, go to the back of the room, and sell 200 condos to the room.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: It's wild. Right. So, obviously, we know what happened with that. 2007 happened right into the teeth of me moving to Vegas because I met a girl, so I moved to Vegas. And, that's why I moved there.
And into the teeth of that, it was like, okay. I I gotta figure something else out.
Steve: Well, so before we get into all that, we kinda just kinda jumped through this thing. Apprentice.
John: Yeah. So
Steve: you were on Apprentice.
John: I was.
Steve: I didn't know this.
John: You didn't know this?
Steve: I didn't know this.
John: I thought you knew this.
Steve: Oh, so Well, anymore, it's like talking about
John: how many touchdowns I scored at Polk High. I mean, it doesn't matter.
Steve: But you were on it. Right? I mean, that had to have some I mean, on top of, like, the epiphany Yeah. Right? And, like, hey.
There's a lot of people here that are not as smart, but are doing well. Yeah. Right? What was what was your thing on The Apprentice? Like because I actually never watched the show.
Yeah. So what was your thing on The Apprentice?
John: Well, the we don't have a thing. It's not like a talent show. You just have to be smart.
Steve: It was like, hey. Like, your my understanding and, again, very limited because I never watched it. It was like you're, some sort of individual that you're trying to accomplish some feat, like, either scaling your company or something.
John: Well, so here's what it was. They take 18 they took 18 people. Mhmm. They split into two teams. And then every week, they give you a business task.
Steve: Yeah.
John: And you have to complete that whoever whichever team does better in that task wins. Mhmm. They get a reward, and the other team, somebody gets fired.
Steve: Right.
John: And you whittle it down, whittle it down, whittle it down.
Steve: Sort of a survival kind of deal? Yeah. Same kind of deal.
John: Yeah. Mark Burnett was executive producer of both shows. Oh. So it was survivor, but in Manhattan.
Steve: Got it. Okay. So, like, it wasn't the people on it didn't have to have any, particular brand or
John: Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. To get on the show, there was 1,800,000 people that tried out
Steve: the show. Okay.
John: And that was a process in itself that was whittled down. That was one of my my final moments of actually how I got on that show is in the book. Because I I think it's it's one of the best lessons of risk evaluation and building value.
Steve: If you
John: like, I'll share that with Holly. Yeah. I'll do it. So when we applied for the show, it was really popular, and there was, like, millions of people trying to get on to it. 2,000,000 people.
So I went to an open call with my sister begrudgingly. It was her that actually wanted to be on Hot Me. And they kept whittling us down, whittles us down. Over the next, like, six months, they kept calling me, kept filling out applications, kept sending me stuff, kept calling me, sent stuff in. And I learned through the process that they were gonna do a finals week with the top 50 people.
Mhmm. I thought, well, if I can just get to the top 50 out of 2,000,000, I'm gonna call that a win. Right? So they called me and said, we want you to come to finals week. And they took you to the Embassy Suites in Santa Monica.
And they said, you have to stay in your room, lock in your room, can't come out. We'll come and get you when we want you to be somewhere. You can't wear anything that says, like, a college or where you're from or anything. Nothing. Nothing that says anything on yeah.
Nothing. Nothing that people could track you down because they wanted the first time the cast to meet to be on camera on the show, not in the Embassy Suites in Santa Monica. It's like you would go to dinner, and there's 52 51 tops. Mhmm. Because everybody's just sitting there dead silent, look at each other as we eat, then you're locked back in your room.
But through the week Oh, I see. They're giving you personality tests. They're giving you IQ tests. They're giving you psych you know, psychological tests. They're getting all these different things.
You're meeting with psychiatrists. And every day, you go to, like, the next meal, and there'd be less people.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: I'm like,
Steve: oh,
John: they're sending people home. That's what's happening. So it gets to the end when Mark Burnett, who's executive producer of Survivor of the Show. I say it's time for you to to see Mark. Alright.
So I put on my best suit, walk upstairs, and there's this double door and, like, one of those conference rooms they have in, like, these hotels. I walk in. There's Mark Burnett sitting in the on the couch surrounded by about 15 people from NBC, all the NBC brass, and they're all, like, notes and they're all watching. I walk in, camera's rolling. How you doing, mister Bemid?
I'm John Gafford. Nice to meet you. And he's eating M and M's. And he reaches looks at my hand, reaches in the bag, and places one M and M in my hand. And I'm like, okay.
You freak. You don't wanna shake my head. It's terrible. And, I go roll into my spiel about how great I am, and I'm I'm embellishing like crazy at this time, whatever, and about why I'm the perfect person to work for Donald Trump and why he would hire me and why all my experience. And just no interest in any of this stuff.
He's, like, asking me questions like, I heard your girlfriend's about to dump you. I'm like, what? Like, my buddy from Rick from WorldCom told him that. Thanks, Rick. But I'm like, he's but I can tell that I'm losing the room.
I have a very, very high EQ, which is one of my superpowers. So I know when I've got somebody when I'm losing them, and I am losing all of these people. So I'm like, man, it was over, and I just knew it was terrible. So I go downstairs, and I start packing my bag. Because I know it's coming.
I've seen it happen all week. So I'm packing my stuff up. And the PA comes in, and they goes, they wanna see you again. I said, okay. Doing a little different this time.
I said, give me a minute. I'm hitting this mini bar. Hang on a second. So I hit the mini bar in my room. I go upstairs.
I get off the elevator, and I go to those doors, and I kick them as hard as I could. Bam. They hit the walls. Mhmm. I walk in.
Everybody everybody jumps. I walk in. I just look at Mark Burnett, and I said, let me tell you something, buddy. Let me tell you why you should put me on your little television show.
Steve: A little television.
John: Yeah. That's what I said. A little television show. When you make an investment in me, you get back a 100 times if you invest. And I reached in my pocket, then I pulled out a bag of M and M's that I'd taken out of the mini bar in my room.
I threw him in his face, and I
Steve: walked out. Mhmm.
John: Door shut. He laughed on the other side, and I was like, got it. Yeah. And the reason I tell that story is because so much of people that are stuck in one level or another is because they, a, don't know how to create value for people. Right.
They don't know how to evaluate risk. Mhmm. Well, if you look at that story, when I went up there the first time, I assumed I knew what they wanted, and I created no value because I was a walking resume. Mhmm. I was like, oh, here's all my accolades.
They weren't hiring. They were casting. They weren't about television ratings, not who's gonna be a good employee. Right. So I thought to myself, okay.
Let's talk about risk evaluation. Well, currently, where I sit is I'm dead. I'm done. I just cooked myself in that room. So my downside is zero, or my upside is this dream opportunity.
So I have the choice to go make one balls out moment Mhmm. That they're gonna remember forever that's gonna get me on this show. And my little Eminem rebellion accomplished both of those things. So, yeah, I went up there and they said, I went from walking resume guy to here's a dude that's gonna make some ratings.
Steve: Right. And
John: that's gonna be on the show.
Steve: He knows the purpose of the show. Yeah. And he can deliver Yes. The purpose of the show.
John: Yeah. That's it.
Steve: Gotcha. So I think that's a great lesson. Because I think there's so much of, like, it didn't work. I'm gonna try it again. Yeah.
Right? It didn't work the first time, but I'm gonna double down on what didn't work.
John: Yeah. So many times and and and, again, the pivot is so important. It is the market feedback. And I find in entrepreneurship, real estate, all of these things is one of the best things about real estate to talk to our market because we're so intimately involved with it on both sides of it. It's the greatest thing because you can be so creative and come up with new ways to try to figure out how to market.
Oh, there's this new mousetrap. I have this new technique, this new piece that's gonna this is the letter. Right? I have it. And you fall so in love with your Frankenstein creation that when the market says, this sucks, you won't wanna let it go.
Steve: Right.
John: So the ability to listen and react to market feedback in real time, that's one of the skills that so many people that are failing lack.
Steve: You wanna hear something completely ridiculous. Totally. So I was trying to explain something to my kids. Talking about, like, how realistic
John: Trying. How old are they?
Steve: 14, 12
John: Trying. Trying.
Steve: Trying. Right? And so the pattern interrupts. And I said to them, you know what Elon Musk, Donald Trump, and I have in common? They're like, what?
I accept reality as it is. That's what I aspire to be. Now what I hope it is is, like, here are the real world facts. And then now I'm gonna work with the facts in front of me. Not like
John: No hyperbole. There's no there's no spin.
Steve: Yeah. Well, there's I mean, obviously, there was a spin when I said those things. Right? Just try to get their attention. Yeah.
But it's just like, you you you saw the reality as it was, and it was unacceptable, and you were gonna change it versus, like, telling yourself a story whether, like, I killed it in there when you know you didn't or, again, doubling down on what didn't work. Right? You accept the reality as it was, and I'm gonna change this outcome.
John: Mhmm. Well, radical honesty is and it's again, that's where my book starts is radical honesty is so clutch. And I'll give you an example with my kids. Mhmm. So my daughter like, my son is, like, rule follower, relatively neat, does their all the right things.
My daughter, god help every boy in America, looks just like her mother, but has my, like, hell on wheels kind of kind of attitude. And she's the messiest little creature. I love my daughter, Delia, but good lord. It is like our hurricane went through a room all the time. And so finally, after, like, you know, she's just like, well, I'm just messy.
I'm just messy. I'm just messy. And I've heard this all the time. And that's a story that she tells herself. I'm just messy.
Well, saying I'm just messy is not that big of a deal. But finally, it got to the point where the maids were coming. My wife had asked her to pick up her room. She didn't do it before she went to school. My wife had to do it.
My wife's complaining. So she came home and I said, Rama, again, your mother had to clean up after you and do this. And she's like, I know. I'm just messy. I said, no.
You're inconsiderate. She goes, what? And I said, you're not messy. You're inconsiderate. You don't care about what other people have to do.
Because somebody's gotta clean up. Like, you don't care. And, dude, when I called her inconsiderate, like, messy is easy. That's kind of fun. Like, oh, you might be the fun life of the party.
Messy. I called her inconsiderate. Talk about moving the needle. Yeah. Because now you're being honest with what you're really doing.
Steve: Mhmm. And
John: that's that's a start.
Steve: Yeah. What's the reframe? Yeah. Different perspective.
John: Yeah. The real the the right perspective.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So then now you get your friend. You're good in real estate. You're doing all the condo conversions, which were awesome until it wasn't.
John: Until it wasn't.
Steve: So then where did you go from there?
John: So when I when I moved to Vegas, I met a girl. We've been married now eighteen years, so that worked out. There's a bed in Vegas that is actually paying out for me. But so I moved to Vegas and then, you know, the market collapses. So I start saying, okay.
I'm looking around. What's gonna happen to all these people underwater? And it was the first time I heard the phrase short sale. So it's a guy named Lee Hanish, still this day teaches short sales, but he was doing a seminar at the Plaza Hotel. Mhmm.
And I went and saw Lee's and I went and saw Lee's seminar. And it was terrible. I mean, it was a it was a just ridiculously horrible presentation.
Steve: Why was it horrible?
John: Because it was all over the place. It was not enough value. It was too much pitch, and, like, you gotta like, it's gotta be eighty twenty. It's gotta be 80 education, 20 pitch, right, is is a good presentation. And people have gotta feel like they learned enough to maybe do it by themselves, but they need you.
Steve: Yeah. That's
John: what that's what makes a good presentation in sales. I think we can agree. And this one was all over the place. So but I knew the guy knew his shit. Mhmm.
I knew he knew what he was talking about. So I hit him up with an email. And and, again, this is about I talk in the book about how to develop partnerships and bringing value to other people when you're seeking mentors. So I sent him an email. I said, look.
I went to your I went to your seminar today. I'm not gonna buy your stuff. Here's why. Your presentation was terrible.
Steve: So I
John: have a different pitch for you. I just this is what I've been doing now for the last year and a half is selling 200 condos from a stage. So if you come to Vegas for a day, we'll spend half the day revamping your seminar Yeah. Revamping how it works. And then the second half of the day, you're gonna teach me personally everything you know about short sales.
And that's what he did. And I was one of the first people in Vegas doing short sales. And so then that progresses to, okay. I've got my plan. I'm I'm executing a high level on short sales, and that's going well.
But what happens when this doesn't work? Well, now all of a sudden, I'm starting to see that, okay. Good banks are doing this. So now my business plan I I always do a two two one business plan. Two two two two one on anything.
So I've got my two strategies that are tried and true Mhmm. That are working like crazy on my business plan. And then I have my flyer. Like, what what's the thing that I think is coming that I can just try? It's my tester.
Mhmm. So I'm like, okay. Two two one, two two strategies on short sales and acquiring, more clients that way. And then my third was like, okay. How do I get in touch with these banks?
How do I become the guy? And that became then, you start doing the roadshows back in the day to five star in Dallas and all of that stuff, and you start making those appearances. And that led me to becoming the number one agent in the country for LPS.
Steve: Oh, Oh, you were?
John: I was number one in the country for them. Oh. Oh, yeah. I was all in with those guys, which was amazing. Thank and god bless The Apprentice because that's what got me that.
I sent an asset manager, Susan Spears, shout out, Susan, sent an email saying, hi. You might remember from The Apprentice, blah blah, and she totally watched it. And that's how I got that that that particular account. But, yeah, I was number one for them. And that that led to foreclosures, which was a massive business for a long time.
And then same thing. You know, how do we get more accounts? So I managed more accounts. I maximize my accounts to two two. And then the one became okay.
When that started to shift a little bit and I started to see the hedge funds come in, I changed that to the one became how do I get the hedge fund.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: So that became outbound to and I picked up as clients, it was a company here called Frio LLC. I don't know if you remember that in Arizona. They were buying on for, Goldman Sachs. I bought almost their entire portfolio in Vegas. I bought a tremendous amount of Blackstone's portfolio in Vegas.
And it was all I had that all automated. Like, it was totally automated.
Steve: So were you saying, like, you have this ability to catch waves, this is that ability.
John: Yeah. This is the ability. Yeah. Here's my secret sauce. Yeah.
You just have to do two always be working the two things that are tried and true.
Steve: Mhmm. But
John: you always have to have that third flyer. Mhmm.
Steve: And
John: I'm not always right, but I'm right a lot.
Steve: Well, you don't have to always be right. Well, that's
John: the thing.
Steve: It's a flyer. Yeah. It's like it's a low risk move. Yeah. Yeah.
So if it works, great. Doesn't work, like, alright. Well, you know, it's that like, in marketing, we just say AB testing. Yeah. Right?
Like, here's the here's the control. Here's the here's the experiment. Every once in a while, this experiment pops. Great. We have a new control.
Yeah.
John: It's a new control. Level up a little bit. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Right? And so you're just saying, like, here so there's two things that are reliable, and here's the one that is, we're gonna see what happens. See what happens. But we're we're it's like Vegas.
Right? It's like we're putting some money in, like, the hard eights. Yeah. Alright. The hard sixes.
And when it hits, it's gonna be great. Yeah. Yeah. But at the
John: same time, we're still trying to control our bankroll a little bit, just playing the black and red.
Steve: Exactly. Exactly.
John: Well, we just mixed two games then, didn't we? We did. We missed crackers.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
John: Too late.
Steve: Yeah. Pass, don't pass.
John: Yeah. Don't pass is where our money's going if we wanna protect it.
Steve: Yeah. So alright. So that's that's becoming dude, REO's asset management.
John: Mhmm.
Steve: Right? And you're the biggest buyer. So, where along the way did Simply Vegas show up? Hey. My name is Brian.
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John: So when I was buying for the hedge funds, and that well, no. I guess when I was still doing the banks. When I was doing the banks, the broker that I was with at the time was switching came came to us and we're gonna switch brands. And I had become number one as an agent on, you know, most in Vegas, most companies have, Green Valley presence and a Summerlin presence. You have to have those two.
And so I my team was number one in in Green Valley, and my business partner now, he was number one in Summerlin. Very different reasons. I had a very large team, and he was selling luxury. So the owner came to us one day and said, hey. We're moving to this more expensive office space, which he did, and we're changing brands from REMAX to Better Homes and Gardens.
Alright. So we go down and see my new office space, which was half the size of what I had. He's like, because it's more expensive, your costs are going up, like, double.
Steve: Oh, he told you.
John: Oh, he's telling me. Yeah. He's just telling me. Didn't get any buy in. No.
No. No. Here's your office. And, unfortunately, the house
Steve: and works out.
John: Well and this is this is five minutes after he showed me his new giant corner office that he was gonna be in. I was like, So you wanna pay double so you can have this giant corner office, you egomaniac. So, anyway, I decided that at that moment, the institution there maybe had nothing further to offer me. So I wanted to go off and do my own thing. So Kendra was with Keller Williams still.
So she told Gary Keller about me, and I flew down to have dinner with Gary Keller. Awesome. And he was like, yep. You could open a franchise in Vegas, this and that. And the owners of my company found out I was there and locked us out.
Steve: Out of Better Homes and Gardens?
John: Well, it wasn't Better Homes and Gardens. Yeah. It was still REMAX, but they locked us out.
Steve: What does that mean locked you out?
John: Like, there was armed guards there locking us out. Because they Wow. It kinda had a little bit of a nefarious reputation for when people left them being not so nice about it. Mhmm. And, I thought I could overcome that, and we couldn't.
So, anyway, long story boring, I had to get out of there very quickly, and I was incubating. Instead of opening my own Keller Williams, I was incubating in another company that was already opened. I've been there for seven years with about 42 agents. And they had a third partner, and they came to me after the first weekend and said, hey. Instead of you going to do your office, why don't you buy this guy out, then we'll open another one.
I was like, okay. So I did that, and we opened up, and we went from 42 agents to 200 agents in eighteen months, two offices. And I'm saying that I did that because they were open for seven years prior to that and didn't do it. So I can say I did it.
Steve: Yeah.
John: But, anyway, you know, I was always kind of the third leg on that stool because those guys were best friends, and it always was was a very difficult situation. And that Keller model, god bless them, people that own those companies, when you make money, you get to split half of it with your agents. And when you lose money, you get the right check. I didn't understand that. But, anyway, once I started doing the Keller Williams deal, Gavin, who was my who was number did
Steve: open up a KW?
John: I did. Well, I did with these guys. I owned a third of it. We opened a second.
Steve: Oh, so that was a KW where you're incubating it.
John: Right. But in the middle of that deal, right, of doing this and and all of you know, dealing with agents class on Wednesday, like you said, do you have a pulse? Can you pay my my monthly fee? 90% failure rate. Gavin, who was my counterpart in the Summerlin office at that REMAX, also left, to go do his own thing.
He got banged out by that broker pretty good too. But when he left, he was gonna go open a REMAX. And he called me and said, do you wanna open a REMAX with me? And I was like, dude, I'm knee deep in this k w thing already. And he said, fine.
And so I start seeing on the back of, like, distinctive homes, this new company is Simply Vegas. I'm like, what is this company? Look at him. I'm like, it's Gavin. So I called Gavin.
I go, what's Simply Vegas? He goes, dude, I was gonna go open a REMAX. And right as I was going to meet with Dave Leninger in, in, Denver, I just reached out to my high net worth clients and I said, hey. How important is the REMAX brand name to our relationship? And he goes, the response was almost unilaterally the same.
And they said, are you gonna go to REMAX? Like, they didn't even know where I was. Mhmm.
Steve: And he
John: was like, I don't need REMAX to do this. So I opened this company, and then here I am, like, class on Wednesday, sign up. Oh, you're not gonna make it out the door. This is the wheel that I'm on. And I'm watching this little company from afar, and it's just hitter after hitter after hitter in the Vegas luxury market come to this come to this.
Steve: Oh, so you're saying, like, you're running the
John: k w I'm really k w, and I'm watching him.
Steve: But you're you're going to the real estate schools trying
John: to
Steve: convert Oh. Graduates Oh. Graduates.
John: Yeah. Meet some bound method. Yeah. Those guys.
Steve: You're trying to get them to join you at KW. Yeah. And you see this other guy, your your buddy Yeah. Who just flies out of the gate.
John: Hit and hit her after like like, mega agent mega agent. I'm like, okay. So I go to lunch with him and I go, tell me about this company. Tell me about what you're doing.
Steve: Yeah. And he
John: goes, well, I wanted a company that I can run like a private club. So not everybody gets to come work for us. Mhmm. I'm not keeping everybody. You have to produce to stay here.
And we really are focused everything on luxury. And I was like, And I couldn't get that out of my head.
Steve: Well, that's building an a player organization.
John: Yeah. It is. Yeah. But but but here's the thing. I had never done it.
So the reason people buy franchises or go to franchises in general is because they're gonna give you the playbook. And this is how you do this, how you do it. So I'm doing everything you can.
Steve: This is the here's how you cut the potatoes.
John: Yeah. But this is what I found this is what I found, though. It made me lazy. Because in that scenario, I'm waiting for somebody I'm waiting for what do I do next to come down the pipe? I can't
Steve: picture a world where
John: you're lazy. I know. But but mentally, it made me lazy. Yeah. Because I'm waiting for them to tell me what to do.
It stifle my creativity. You know and then eventually, I saw Gavin at a concert, and I just as soon as I saw him, I just I stood up. I told my wife, and she said, where are you going? And I said, fortune and glory, quoting Indiana Jones. And Gavin was going to the bar.
I went to the bar, and I said, hey. I said, I think your company is doing great. I think it could be better. And he goes, I agree. And he had two partners before me, and I said, what do you think your problem is?
He goes, like Right
Steve: out of the gate.
John: Right out of the gate. Right out
Steve: of the gate, your company could be better.
John: Yeah. I said, your company could be better. And he goes, I agree. And I said, what do you think your problem is? He goes, I have the wrong partners.
And I said, I have that exact same problem. We need to solve this problem. And within two weeks, I had sold out my Keller shares, no profit, even though we built up the company much larger. I just wanted out my original investment back, and then I bought out his existing partners, and we opened up the new office. Very quickly within two years, we we were number three in total volume, within two years of opening as a new company, and we've never relinquished that.
We're now number two. Mhmm. There was a period at the '1. My company was number one in the market. That should never happen ever, ever, ever, because number one has, like, 1,800 agents, and I don't ever wanna have that business.
Mhmm. But there was just so much luxury happening at the first quarter of this year that we were number one.
Steve: Yeah. Crazy. It is.
John: It was nuts.
Steve: So it sounds pretty simple. Not really replicable, but, like, just find find a better partner. But, I mean, at a high level, it's like Yeah. There's a lesson I'm taking right now from from that.
John: If if I'd like, people talk to me now. I mean, obviously, much harder to open a broker now. There's just so many and so much stuff gets thrown around, and it's it's just so much. But if you really get down to what makes a great brokerage for an offering is you gotta have a magnet, And that magnet is not your tech stack. You've gotta have somebody that is a partner at that brokerage that everybody wants to be.
Like, nobody gets into real estate to sell $100,000 condos. That's not the goal. They wanna sell the big stuff. So you better have one of those partners that is an established person selling big houses that people can look to and say, that's the person I wanna be. That's somewhere.
That was my partner, Gavin. Gavin, I'll do this year couple 100, you know, probably a couple 100,000,000 by himself. No team. Just couple 100,000,000. But, you know, Gavin, because of that business, he's not the engine that makes it go.
So Gavin's the magnet, and I'm the engine. Yes. I do very, very well. We sell a lot of home. My team does extremely well, but I have a very different business.
And for me, it gives me the flexibility to do what I want. When I made this comment earlier that the franchise made me mentally lazy, one of my favorite things when my kid was, like, when Hayden was, like, eight, I said, what do you wanna do when you grow up, buddy? Because I'm gonna do what you do. I said, okay. Cool.
What do you what do I do? He goes, you're the boss. I said, okay. Why do you wanna be the boss? And he goes, nobody gets to tell you what to do.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: I said, okay. You know what the hardest thing about being the boss is? He goes, what? I said, nobody tells me what to do. I gotta figure it out for myself.
But that, I think, is the magic. I think I think you're either built for that or you're not. And the people that build successful companies and build great things, they flourish in that environment and saying, I love that nobody's telling me what to do today, and I'm gonna figure it out.
Steve: Well, they they they love that they're the ones controlling it. But there's also the whole part where, like, you have to answer to so many people. So, like, you're not you're the Yeah. Boss. Yeah.
But, like, also, you have to solve not necessarily you have to be the one that does it, but you have to be able, in one capacity, to solve everyone's problem. Yes. Right? Yes. Mega agent, hey.
I'm having this problem. Or that this title company is not willing to do what it's supposed to do. Now you've got to call your contacts there.
John: Yeah. There's there's lots. And and to be great at this as well, I love I love I can always tell one of the questions that I ask a lot of people that are coming wanna come to our brokerage, and I love to ask this just for my own personal reward, is logistically speaking, in your office, where is your owner's office? Where is it? They're always like, oh, it's in the very back.
It's here. It's in this corner. It's over here. Blah blah blah. My office is a glass box in the lobby.
Like, I can't hide.
Steve: Like Really?
John: Like, oh, yeah. You walk in the front. Like, you can open the front door and see me sitting at my desk. That's where it is. Because that's part of my core value to the company is we're very approachable as owners.
We're here for our people, and it's what we do. Yeah. Occasionally, it can be troublesome.
Steve: I imagine a lot of time it'd be troublesome as glass.
John: It it is, but we have you know, the good news is we have a rule that if nobody's in the office or I'm not talking to a screen or I'm not on the phone, you can come in. But one of those three things is happening a lot. So it's not it's it's not as free flowing as you might think. Mhmm. But I I love the fact that we get to help those people.
Steve: Yeah. Well, you know, that's it's that's what's the most rewarding. But, like, there's this fallacy of, like, you're the boss. You get to make all the decisions.
John: Oh, dude. I got 585 bosses right
Steve: now. That's kinda how I felt. Like, when I, decided to stop the traditional real estate part, I was like, so every sign in the ground is a boss. Right? And everyone that wants to look at this house tonight is a boss.
So I quit Intel because I didn't I couldn't have a boss. Yeah. And then I get into real estate. It's like, everyone's my boss.
John: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. And sometimes they don't call you.
They just go right to the Google machine and wanna leave Yeah. Crazy reviews.
Steve: So you go Simply Vegas. When did it when did this partnership begin?
John: So we've been at it now sixteen years now. Fifteen years, we've been at it.
Steve: Fifteen years.
John: Fifteen years ago.
Steve: So you started, when you when you partnered with Gavin, you guys had about how many agents?
John: It's four maybe 45, maybe 40 when we started. Today, we got five eighty five. I I start to freak out if it gets to 600. Yeah. There's just we purge every six months.
I'm one of the few brokerages that does that. We pull all of our numbers every six months. And if you're a zero for the previous six, we have a conversation, and that conversation goes one of two ways. It either goes, nothing I am doing is working. Right?
Like, I am killing myself, and I don't know what's going on. I'm in a slump. I can't figure it out. If you that's you, I got you. Because if you're trying to save yourself, I'm gonna put you on a team.
We'll get you we'll get you we'll figure out we'll figure out what's going wrong. We're gonna get you on the right on the right track. I got you. But as as it is in Vegas, the majority of those calls are, well, I took a job at the Wynn. I'm not really focused on it right now.
Well, okay. Then I'm gonna invite you to work somewhere else. Because you are absolutely a product of your environment. And if you're surrounded by people that are not really focused on what you're trying to be heavily focused on, I I would love to think the top performers drag the bottom ones up, but it doesn't work that way. You know, what happens is they drag the top performers down.
And so it's our job and our responsibility to the agents that choose to work with us to police our our Salesforce. And plus the ones that do one deal a year, that's who gets you in trouble. That's who does stupid stuff. That's who cuts corners. That's who doesn't call people back.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: It's that's the agent that does that.
Steve: So It's funny you say this because, like, when people talk about, like, why did I close my brokerage? Why what's the big deal? I was like, well, it's these calls I don't wanna take. Mhmm. It's like, hey.
Your realtor did this. Right? They left all the lights on, which is no big deal. They left the doors unlocked. Okay.
They were
John: And the fireplace on. Yeah.
Steve: It's like, okay. Right? And then, like, hey. You know, we have, had one realtor. Love her.
Right? Caliani. She was awesome. But she's for whatever reason, we always have, like, the most challenging situations. And when she called me one time, I was like, hey.
I'm at this I'm at this property. The DEA, Department of Homeland Security, and there's another three letter agency. I don't think it was FBI. But there were three different three letter agencies at the house. Right?
I was like, okay. Well, document everything. Send it to me.
John: Oh, boy.
Steve: Right? So these are like and she wasn't a one person a one deal, a year person, but, like, the one deal a year person is the one that attracts those kinds of situations.
John: Oh, for sure. For sure. Because they just they don't do like, I know a deal is gonna be bad. As soon as I hear how long somebody's been doing the real estate. And they're like, I've been doing this for twenty five years or I or even worse, I see the AOL email address.
You're like, oh, dude. This is gonna be bad. This is gonna be so bad. Yeah. Like, I don't care how long you've been doing it.
I care how much you do it. Right. And much like, I'd really a brain surgeon that's been at it for forty years that does one a year, I'd rather go to the guy that does 40 a week Mhmm. That's been doing this for three years. Yeah.
He's better.
Steve: Right. So alright. So you get from 45 to 585. Yeah. What were the and I know we're gonna talk in the book in a bit, but before we get into the book Yeah.
What were some of the biggest lessons that I guess, biggest failures and then the biggest lesson?
John: Yeah. Well, I would say that number one, your your core values of your company have gotta matter. And they've gotta be they've gotta be in lockstep, and you've gotta make decisions based on those things. And they can't just be words on a wall. They've gotta mean something to you.
If you're not hiring and firing and if you're not willing to fire your like, if integrity for example, integrity above all things is one of our core values. You know, no one dealer no one agent or transaction is worth the reputation of the company. That's that core value. And if you're not willing to fire the number two agent in your company for that, then that's not real. And we've done that.
We fired the number two, probably fired the number five at the time, agent in the company, because we didn't like what they were doing. And it wasn't worth the reputation of everyone else. So you've gotta live and die by those core values. Number two, in order to really be successful in the brokerage business, you have got to be vertically integrated. If you're not vertically integrated, it's a problem.
I like to think that I was a pioneer of that in Vegas. We were the first ones to own a title company, an escrow company. We were the first ones, I think, to own a mortgage company. But we can always are looking for ways to con anywhere our consumer is gonna spend money, we wanna be part of that. We are part of a solar company.
I mean, anything we can do that's going to maximize profits for the bottom line makes sense. But you can't those companies have to be siloed for, like, respo purposes and whatnot. But the profits from those companies have to flow together. Like, if I can enhance the value add or enhance my agent's ability to make money or market because we can offer them a better product here because I don't necessarily have to be as profitable. Maybe it's simply Vegas because of the accelerated income we're getting from the verticals.
I need to do that.
Steve: So
John: we are constantly looking for ways to improve our tech stack, improve our offering to our to our agents to make them and keep them competitive in the market. Because I can afford to do that in a different way than most brokers can because I have a revenue coming in from these auxiliary sources.
Steve: Yeah. So going back to core values, hiring and firing based on core values. So you talk about how to let the number two, number five, approximately, go. What were I don't know if you can talk about this, but what were the violations of integrity? You're like, okay.
This is entirely One of them And just before we go into it, number two, how much revenue was this person bringing to the company?
John: Yeah. You're probably talking about one of them was probably a $100
Steve: In revenue to the company.
John: Revenue to the company. It was probably worth 100 by the time it was all said and done. And and, honestly, she was just a terrible, terrible human. Like, just everybody hated this person.
Steve: Yeah.
John: I mean, it was everybody in the office hated this person. Her staff looked like a like a beaten woman's clinic. It was just it was just I mean
Steve: It
John: was a tire. She got in a fist fight with a male assistant in the office. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. But it just when you when that's your reputation in the marketplace, if you're carrying a business card with my logo on it, that's my reputation. And so it just got to a point where, like, dude, this is relentless.
We can't keep doing this. So we had to part ways with that person. Another person, that was probably number five at the time, this is a a nice guy that we all really liked. I still like this person as a human, but they did a deal. And and I I'm gonna I wanna talk about this with you a little bit.
You're a little on the other side of it right now. But, obviously, in the broker situation like, when you look at wholesaling and you look at personal gain by acquiring real estate through that process, there's a fine line we walk as realtors. Like, we we have a responsibility to do what is in the best interest of the client. Yeah. And there was a situation where somebody bought a house that purse that that gained themselves personally in a way that wasn't necessarily lockstep with full disclosure on what was happening
Steve: Mhmm.
John: That I did not like. Yeah. And as soon as I got the call about it from the concerned family member Mhmm. And I looked at it, it was like, there's no way to spin this. As much as I wanted desperately for this person to be able to spin this in a way that I understood what was happening here, there was no way to spin it.
It was just like, this is just for self gain. Mhmm. Like, this is absolutely marginalizing somebody that was probably in a vulnerable position for own your own personal gain, and we couldn't do it. Right. And, unfortunately, it was like that was the last day.
Even though it wasn't necessarily illegal what they were doing No. It wasn't right.
Steve: Well, it wasn't part of Simply Vegas's.
John: No. It was not.
Steve: Right? I think that's what you're talking about here. Because, yeah, like, I do both. Right? Like, not anymore.
I mean, I'm completely out of real estate now. Yeah.
John: But, when
Steve: we had our brokerage, like, the the cool thing about our brokerage, we had all the top wholesalers. Like, they all hung their license with us. Matter of fact, we kinda became the black sheep in the market because
John: because of that?
Steve: Well, yeah. They're like I I remember one of my guys went to real estate school. He was like, hey. Like, it's time for you to get licensed. And they're like, hey.
Where are you getting where are you you know? Because their their instructor is also a recruiter. Right? Like, hey. Where are you gonna go hang your license?
It's like, oh, you know, I'm gonna go on to Sonny Holmes Realty, which are like, oh, you're going with Steve Trang. Like, man, like, the instructor knows my name. Right? But, like, you know, we're the ones that instructed the realtors, like, how to wholesale and and do all that. So what I'm hearing here, and let me know if I'm completely off base here, is, like, the guy went to the home and lady needed to sell, assuming lady Mhmm.
Needed to sell. And instead of talking about how we can sell your house for the most amount of money or how Simply Vegas will market your home, I was like, how about I just buy your house? Yeah. Right? So for us, the the dividing line is, like, what was how did we get into the home?
So for me, if it if it was they responded to we buy houses for cash.
John: Sure.
Steve: Right? As, hey. I'm coming in.
John: That's a good way to divide that's a good way to divide it.
Steve: Yeah. So if we're coming
John: I don't hate this.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm coming in to buy your house for cash, say, hey. I'm also a licensed realtor. Like, is and on every page is I'm a licensed realtor in Arizona, then I'm good.
But if it's like, hey. You want me to sell your house and say
John: twisted it to this.
Steve: Well, not even if I twisted it. It's like, if I said ARV or, you know, repair value market value is 400, and I don't disclose that Yeah. And then I buy it for $2.50, now we have a problem because you wanna list it for 100, and I buy it for $2.50.
John: Yeah. I I think the process I think the process was and this was a pretty decent clip of a house. It was it was I think it was over a million bucks, and it was going there as a listing presentation.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: And before they could even get to value of his opinion of market value for the house, she tosses out the, as long as I can get x, that was a number and not based in any reality. And this was a person even though they had this house, they weren't in a place in their life where they probably had the faculties to make that kind of an estimation Yeah. What should have happened there. And rather than do the right thing and say, well, that's probably really low. I mean, this is what you could probably get on the market.
It was a just I saw an opportunity, and I jumped on it. Right. And that I did not like.
Steve: That angle is not a great angle.
John: Yeah. That is not like that I don't like.
Steve: Yeah. So yeah. Because for again, for us, it depends on what was the mechanism, what were the expectations. Right? So our marketing was always we buy houses, and then, hey.
It sounds like you're trying to do this. We can list it. We can get you more money. Yeah. Right.
That was always the angle. It was never like, hey. Let me list your house.
John: I think that's fair.
Steve: Right? And so that's, at least that's the way we always taught it. But, anyway so
John: So as a broker, how did you okay. So let's say in that scenario, I'm just curious what you did there because I know what I do, and I'm curious what you do. If it comes to that, what disclosures are you giving to the seller as far as what could have happened that they went the other way? Are you like it was it like paragraph and paragraph and paragraph of, like, everything that could happen or no?
Steve: No. It really depended on the situation of what they wanted. Because, again, our marketing was always to let me take that back. We started with the Craig Proctor, your home sold guarantee. Yeah.
John: Yeah. Okay. Got it. Yeah. A couple 100.
Oh, g. There you go.
Steve: This whole deal started. Right? And after enough times, I was like, well, just buy my house for cash. Like, you don't want it. You don't want my cash offer.
You want me to list it. After enough times, like, no. We want the cash offer. We just pivoted away from all the traditional marketing, and we just went to cash because we knew if you wanted a cash offer, you needed to sell. Yeah.
Right? And so if you needed to sell, it was either a cash offer, which by the way, I was still generous at this time at 80%.
John: Okay. Sure.
Steve: We lowered it later on. We were like, too many people accept an 80% offer. Yeah. Right? So it was either that we would go with the cash or you wanted the traditional route, then we would still do the your home sell guarantee will buy it.
And at that point, if they agreed to it, only one person ever agreed to it at the number we wanted was 8% commission. So if you went that route, we got 8% commission. Typically, it was 7% because we didn't we took away the guarantee. It was 7% commission. Yeah.
But we found that people that needed to sell, that's what we went after. We didn't go with people that wanted to sell. We went after people that needed to sell.
John: Yeah. That's there's there's definitely a difference there. Yeah. And the worst listings you can tell, and I tell agents all the time, the worst listings you can tell are when people say, well, let's just test the market. Oh.
No. All you're gonna do yeah. You're just gonna spend a bunch of money on marketing, have to explain something every week why this is not happening, and then if
Steve: you Why hasn't my home sold there?
John: You're gonna be the bad guy in six months, it'll expand on your record then.
Steve: Exactly. Exactly.
John: I the best listings I've ever had are the ones I've not taken.
Steve: Yeah. So going back to this. So you're talking about, like, multiple streams of revenue. Mhmm. Because the reality is I have talked so many people.
I I actually have this email from a a a guy who, shut down his traditional team. Right? I was like, I'm proud of all the people that say that or the brokers. Like, hey. You're right.
This broker's thing is brain damage. I don't wanna do it. I'm just gonna focus on just buying houses. Right? So I've talked to a lot of people outside of the brokerage model.
And I said, if you're gonna do a brokerage, you've gotta have a title company.
John: You have to.
Steve: Right? And you have to have a way to legally and ethically get the mortgage side as well. Yeah. Right? And so if you're not doing that, then for me, it's just complete brain damage.
If the other way, at least you're profitable. Yeah. So I think there's still brain damage, but at least you're profitable.
John: Yeah. Well, how we got how we got in the title business is pretty funny because eight, nine I guess, it's been eight, nine years now. It's been probably eight years that we've had a clear title open. And how that happened was Movement Mortgage created an arm of their business called, Core Service Partners. And the purpose of Core Service Partners was to go out into the marketplace with big brokerages and open, like, co opt, title companies where they're they're joint venture partnerships is what I'm looking for with that thing.
And so they came to us, and a guy came and sat at my desk. And he said, we're gonna open a title company for you. It's gonna be great. You're not gonna have to do anything. We're gonna run everything.
It's gonna be awesome. Blah blah blah. Cool. Call Gavin. Hey, man.
We're getting a title coming. What is that? We don't have to do anything. These guys are gonna handle everything. Well, yeah, they got it open.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: And then very quickly, we realized we were having to do everything because it was just like they were in in Charlotte. And the plan was for Movement, I think they were doing this as a way to create a wedge to get Movement Mortgage also as a partner in the brokerage. Mhmm. I was very clear upfront. Like, we're not doing that because we want flexibility in what we're doing.
And then they got us open. It was very difficult. And then one Thursday, I got an email accidentally from them, and it was a spreadsheet. They were it was not bound for me, but I got it.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: It was a spreadsheet, and it had every single joint venture title company they had that was open, all of them, like, on a strip. And every single one of them was losing money except for one.
Steve: That was yours.
John: It was ours. And I hated that business every single day while we're in that situation because it was all these headaches, and they were supposed to deal with it. And, like, if the deal is you're not supposed to do anything and then you have to deal with the headaches, you're mad about it. Even though you're getting these checks and you're like, oh my god. We're just making this is great money, but I gotta deal with this.
So we very quickly called them up and said, look. Here's the deal. We're buying you out. Mhmm. Obviously, you guys aren't doing anything.
We see your ability to run these title companies. We've already established our ability to do it, so we're buying you out. And once we got them out of the way, the headaches became a little bit more worthwhile. Now granted, that is incredibly hard business, and we took a lot of lumps in that business over
Steve: the years.
John: Kinda lumps. So the problem with that business in most cases are you need people to operate that business Mhmm. Because I I don't wanna be there full time as COO. And so for years, we would go after people that we found that were available. What I can tell you about available people in the title industry is they're terrible.
If they're available, they're terrible. They're available for a reason. Mhmm. And so we kept bringing in available person after available person. And I, you know, I I'm not we just crashed the ship over and over and over.
And so, eventually, I made a decision where, like, look, we're not hiring any more industry people for this. Escrow officers, yes, they have a little bit of following this line. But when it comes to the operations of this business and it comes to marketing, we're changing we're pivoting our thoughts. So for operations, I went out and found the smartest people I could find. Like, I just put you the IQ test.
I wonder how smart you are. Mhmm. Because I can teach a smart person to do anything. Yeah. And they'll figure it out.
And then as far as the marketing arm goes, I don't need somebody to hand out chats, ticking desk calendars. I don't care about that. I went out and found the baddest digital marketing people I could find. And I told them they were being hired. Like, the ad I ran was hiring digital marketing people.
And then they came in. I'm like, well, it's a sales job. So here's the deal. You've got this part of it. I'm gonna teach you how to sell.
Mhmm. And that combination of those two things over the last two years, when we got rid of the last bit of our industry people that were kind of tanking our ship and brought in this this modus operandi, it it's just changed everything. And that business is unbelievable now. I love that business now. Yeah.
It's always been profitable, but now I really love it.
Steve: So I had my title company, and I absolutely loved it. So I was partners with Magnus Title Agency. Right? And they're huge, huge, huge in Phoenix. And it was incredible partnership.
And the best thing about it was they actually did what you were promised.
John: Yeah. They did. They actually did it. They did. Well, they're here.
Yeah. It's easy to do it when you're here.
Steve: Yeah. So but it's like, hey. We're gonna partner.
John: Mhmm.
Steve: We're gonna be 51, you'll be 49. Like, what do I have to do? Like, talk about us.
John: Sales.
Steve: Just talk about us. I can do that. Incredible partnership. Unfortunately, when I shut down my brokerage, I didn't consider the fact that the real estate commissioner in Arizona had problems with realtors that weren't brokerage owners on a title company. Oh.
Had I known that, it might have changed the calculus.
John: Yeah. Right. Worth it just to keep the shop open. One agent.
Steve: Well, then at that point, it's like, you know, there's no amount of money that's really worth department of real estate just, like, always paying attention.
John: Yeah. That's true.
Steve: So after that, I was like, you know, forget it. Right? And because I was doing really well for no effort, doing incredibly well. Yeah. But, things got hard in '22, '23.
So this is in '23. And once the the department real estate starts knocking your door, it's like, alright. I'm trying to focus. I'm gonna do my one thing. Let's just go ahead and shut that thing.
John: Well and, dude, and I think you'll agree with this. Right? When you're the little guy like that, like, a clear title, I mean, we're in the market against like, the dude that owns the damn hockey team owns half the title companies in Vegas. Right? And so you're dealing with the big hitters in there.
You've gotta make sure you are squeaky, squeaky, squeaky, squeaky clean.
Steve: Yeah. Because, a Everyone wants to take care
John: of it. Dude. Because, a, they will absolutely come and get you. Mhmm. And they have much better relationships at high levels with department of insurance and the real estate commission, all of those things than I do.
Steve: Well, what I found, this is me, you know, my perspective
John: Mhmm.
Steve: Is that the big guys actually don't follow the rules.
John: But they want you to.
Steve: But they will call you out.
John: Oh, in a second. In a second. In a second. Luckily, you you know, like, we have a great relationship with the DOI. Yeah.
And, again, here's here's a testament to the staff that we brought in the last couple years. Two years ago, you get audited in the in the title business every couple years. And and, like, Fidelity came in and honored us. And, you know, because of the people we had run the ship, we we got put on, like, double secret probation or whatever it was because we had a lot of things wrong. And the guy just came in.
We just finished our audit. We had no compliance issues whatsoever. Went from, like, 47 to, like, one. That's the equivalent of getting, like, a d on your health inspection to getting an a plus. And the inspect and the guy that did the the audit was like, I've never seen a turnaround like this.
Mhmm. So that's I mean, that's just a testament to that thought process of hire the smartest people, not the people that have been doing it for twenty years. Because who cares?
Steve: Yeah. The, the experienced people tend to bring more challenges
John: than Yes. They do. Yeah.
Steve: Yes. They do. So then and, Clear Title, when did you partner up with them?
John: So eight years ago is when I think seven, seven, eight years ago is when we opened the company. We bought them out pretty quick, like, twelve months into it. So we just Gavin and I have owned it exclusively. And then what we did was we started doing what their what they wanted to do. Mhmm.
So we started going out to the big brokerages in Vegas, and we understood that it was gonna be very difficult to manage the South Side. We did try to do one in El Paso for somebody. Very difficult to manage. Saw very quickly we're splitting that off because we're not on the market. That that is still open.
We don't own part of it. But we started doing JVs for big brokerages in Vegas. Mhmm. So now we have two we have multiple JVs in Vegas. We have two brick and mortars and then multiple other JVs that are running.
Yeah. But, yeah, we started doing what they could because now that we're in market with it, just like you said, Magnus was a great partner, we can keep our arms around it and keep all of those operations operating very low. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. And then you added the mortgages as well.
John: Yeah. So mortgage, we were we were again, the goal was to do nationwide with mortgage and do joint venture partnerships with companies across. And we were, man, did we get out of our skis on that and buy it off buy it more than we thought. And it was going well, obviously, until the rates changed. Because we were, I mean, we're wholesale.
We had a locked desk. We had everything. We we were correspondent lender, which is very expensive if you don't have enough loans. Yeah. Because you gotta pay some high dollar people to run those desks.
And that's what we're doing. And, man, we started hemorrhaging money when the rates changed. And CrossCountry Mortgage came in, saw the opportunity, saw the sales when things were good, and bought us, acquired us, which was great, and allowed us to keep running our businesses on p and l with them. So they took all the heavy lifting. They took all the desks.
They took I mean, took everything. So all of our high, you know, payroll and expense went to them, and now we're just running p and l with them on a split, which has been unbelievably great. And it's also going from you know, we were you know, we it was nice to have, you know, UWM and Rocket fight over our business a lot. That was that was flattering, I guess. But there's something about being with a bank that's so much different with the products that you can offer your clients and just the flexibility.
Yeah.
Steve: What are the benefits?
John: Oh my god. The products. Just the products you have and what you can do are so much different than when you're dealing with Rocket or UWM. Because, you you know, the bank is gonna service us as a a certain percentage of its own loans. They're not selling them.
And they're not looking to bundle them up. And it just it's just that flexibility of the programs that we've had has been life changing. We've been able to recruit better LOs to that company now because strictly based on product.
Steve: Got it. Okay. So then you wrote a book? Yes. I did.
What's the book?
John: So all of this great stuff we've been talking about yeah. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah. Escaping the Drift is the name of the book.
Same name as my podcast. But we I didn't all of this success that we just talked about didn't really happen until my early thirties. My twenties were spent kind of drifting along with this affable sense of, well, somebody's always gonna save me, be it my father, be it whatever girl I was just, you know, dating that I moved in with after two months. And there was always somebody else. And it was all of my problems tended to be because somebody did this or or that happened.
And I hadn't I didn't really take control of my own life until these stories that I we already talked about, like being on The Apprentice and being around those people, having the understanding of of going to the car lot and understanding that I could fend for myself when nobody was coming to help me and that my ceiling was much higher than I was I was I was operating at. And so I wanted to write a book for a couple of reasons. Number one, it's a legacy piece of my kids. As you hit a certain age and you start going on, like, Facebook groups and, like, your high school Facebook group. Yeah.
Who? Me? Yeah.
Steve: They're 53.
John: 53. Are you gonna be no. But you go in those Facebook groups, right, with your high school group, and you're like, people are dying. And there's no candlelight vigil anymore. There's no, like, we're meeting at the lake to, like, hold no.
It's like, yeah. That dude had lifted a weight in ten, twenty years, and I can see why he had a cardiac arrest. But you start to realize how finite time is.
Steve: It's fascinating you say that there's no candlelight vigil because that was the twenties.
John: Yeah. Oh, yeah, dude. Oh, yeah. Twenties. Somebody died.
It was like, oh my gosh. This is crazy. Now you're like
Steve: That sucks.
John: Yeah. It's kinda yeah. It sucks, man. I kinda see that. Yeah.
But you realize how finite time is. Right? So when you realize how finite time is a couple of weeks. I wanna write, like, a piece for my kids in case something happens to me. I just lost one of my best friends to cancer about two months ago, Steve Sims, who actually wrote the forward to the book.
Steve: Oh, you're friends with Steve Sims? Yeah.
John: Steve's one of my best friends. And and I he wrote the the forward to the book is the last thing he ever wrote, which I'm so honored, and and I love that that I can give that to Henry and Claire and Russell's kids. And Yeah.
Steve: I've interacted with him, but never, like, knew him personally.
John: He's great. He he he was great. And and just an unbelievable guy. And talk about living every moment, man. He was he he had it.
It was just an incredible guy. But I wonder why I like it to be some kids, but I also because you realize the finite amount of time. I always my biggest regret. People say, what is your regret? Do you have a regret?
What's your regret? And it and a lot of people say, like, oh, everything happened for a reason exactly as it was. I don't believe that. I'm like, I shouldn't have given such a giant period of my time to the whims and just thoughts of others where they could dictate what happened to me. And so I I drifted through my twenties just on the winds of change.
And if I could do anything, I'd go back in time and and and stop that. Because where would I be today if I would have started earlier? You know? And that and and, also, I think it's a great time for it because the way if you look at what's happening in the world, I think when COVID hit, I think there's a level of apathy that got programmed into people during COVID. When it was like, okay.
The government can tell you you have to stay in your house and and and everything you thought you could do, we just pull the rug out from underneath. You gotta do this. And it created this blase of, like, when almost when is the other shoe gonna drop? And I think it it shows up in everything. I it shows up in I talk about restaurants a lot in Vegas.
Like, we have the best restaurants in the world there. And it used to be every time you go to one of the high end restaurants, you'd be like, oh my gosh. That was just an exceptional meal. The service was incredible. The maitre d' was so amazing.
It was just a magical night. But now, it's almost like those those dinners are fewer and far between because now so many people are just going through the motions, and it shows up in real estate. It shows up in retail. It shows up in your relationship with your friends. People are all of a sudden, like, will RSVP and not show up.
And it just maybe it's not important to this. And it just it's this general malaise of apathy that's going through the world. And I've made it kind of my mission to wake as many people up from that as I can. And if you look at what's coming with AI, right, you see the robot, the Neo robot you can get for your house? Did you see that?
Oh, I
Steve: didn't see that. No.
John: Okay. Shipping q one, you can buy a humanoid robot that will do all your chores in your house.
Steve: Okay. Or just what's the preorder?
John: Yeah. It's $20,000 or $500 a month, and it will do all your stuff. Like, we're here.
Steve: I'm gonna stop this podcast just to buy it
John: right now. You, dude. We're here. No. We're here.
Like, Jetsons, we're here.
Steve: Ruby's right here.
John: And so if you are somebody that is just haphazardly your way through life on the winds of chance to whatever will happen will happen, bro, you better get control of the direction of where you're going or somebody's gonna get it for you. And that's gonna be a real problem. And that's kinda what the this is my playbook, my user's manual to how to escape that thinking and and take control of the direction of your life.
Steve: We had this conversation on Monday. So we do twice a month, we do growth mindset calls. As everyone in the company, and the one we talked about Monday was, living life with intentionality, particularly business, but also, like, your life. Yeah. And we're saying, like, hey.
Like, moving forward, beginning the week, you can write down here the top three priorities when you get done this week no matter what. And in the week, we got the Elon Musk. Like, what'd you get done this week? Right? Like, we gotta live with intentionality.
And the thing I said, which is, like, totally coincides with this, was that the people in your and your there people in your life I'm sorry. Not people in your life. The people you look up to live their life with intention. They've got a plan, and they're executing that plan. The people that you don't really wanna spend time with are kinda just floating along down the river of life wherever it goes.
John: Left it along.
Steve: Another thing I actually had, like, frustration with my sales team, and, they're talking about because, you know, we sell our coaching product or our AI product. And they're like, well, this guy, you know, we're not sure. He's he's he's like, how do I know this will work in my market, in my business? Right? And I said to him well, I said to myself, I was like, I don't care if that guy buys our product.
Yeah. Because the
John: He's already looking for an excuse.
Steve: The words I'm hearing out of him and that what I said to my sales team was like, there are two types of people, people that happen to the world and the people where the world happened to them.
John: Did you have my book in front of you? Because it literally, it's on the cover. Oh, there
Steve: you go. That's the cover. So I'm gonna have them read the book. Right? But that's what I said to my sales guy.
I was like, hey. Like, if this guy sounds like the kind of person where the world happens to them, they're gonna buy our product if we get them to buy it. And once they do, they're gonna complain to everyone about how our product doesn't work. Yeah. Right?
So, like, I'm not sure we even want that guy's Yeah.
John: Because they already want they're already pessimistic about it. Yeah.
Steve: They got one foot out the door. They don't know if they're gonna be in the business. Like, I don't know if we wanna sell this to this guy. Yeah. And so, like, this is a perfect book because that's the message I've been trying to preach on my team is, like, right here in
John: the book. Yeah. It is. Well, you know, for me, this is a step by step guide. It starts at the beginning of what I think you need to do.
Yeah. And the first step in this is radical accountability and really taking a look in the mirror. And and asking yourself and being honest with yourself about what did I do to create the situation that where I currently am? What what am I doing with this? Is is I call it instead of pointing the finger, you gotta start pulling the thumb.
Right? It's what it is. And most people don't wanna do that because it's uncomfortable.
Steve: Well, then you have to admit it's your fault.
John: Yeah. It it's easier to it's easier to do that. There's comfort in in misery and failure. Mhmm. And it's I always go back to there's a movie that Al Pacino was in, called Two for the Money.
It was a gambling movie. You see this movie?
Steve: I don't think I
John: watched it. Alright. Anyway, so Al Pacino ran, like, one of those gambling services where you call up and you get the pics. Yeah. Anyway, he goes to an to a gamblers anonymous meeting.
He goes to a gamblers anonymous meeting. And he says, you're not addicted to gambling. You're addicted to losing because you never feel more alive than when you're up against it. You've all your money's gone, and you don't know how you're gonna pay the rent, and you just barely scrape by. And just so many people, they're living paycheck to paycheck or moment to moment or every day is Groundhog Day.
Success to them becomes being able to get yourself out of the trouble that you're in. It's like people would rather grab a brick than a life raft. And another example of that is, like, let's say, you know, the repo man's coming. Oh, man. I can't make my car payment.
Here comes the repo man. Well, let's backtrack that one. Why is the repo man coming? Because you can't afford your car payment. Why can't you afford your car payment?
Because the interest rate is 28% on the car. Why is it 28%? Because you ruined your credit, and you can't get a decent rate. So let's go back and make a better choice, which is instead of going to buy a new car, maybe let's spend a year fixing our credit and then not have that happen and not replicate. So people don't wanna be honest because it's easier for their ego Mhmm.
To just perpetuate the problem. Yeah. So once you've and think about this. How can you start to get better or know where you're going if you don't know where you're starting? Yeah.
Think about your phone. Right? Like, you're in a parking garage and you put the GPS in your phone where you need to go, but the satellite can't see you because you're in the garage. Mhmm. Do you get directions?
No. You already know where you're trying to go. Right? Mhmm. Why don't you just get directions?
Steve: Yeah.
John: Because you don't know where you're starting from. So being radically honest about where your starting point is is the key. And then from there, you gotta decide who you're trying to become, where you're trying to get to. And really design really design that life or that person or who you want to be because everything starts there. And then now I know where I'm starting, where I'm trying to go to.
And now I need to understand why I'm trying to get to that place. Why? Like, when you said write down your three objectives this week. Mhmm. Like, for me, it would be like I'd have two lines on that paper.
Write down your three objectives, and then next to it, write down why it's important you get it done. Yeah. Because if you don't know why you're doing this, then why are you why would you do it? Mhmm. So when people come to interview for our company, how much do you wanna make?
I wanna make $250,000. Why? I don't know. It just sounds cool. Yeah.
Or why? Because I want my kid to go to college and have no debt. I'm trying to move into a better neighborhood. I wanna hand the keys to this house to my wife. I wanna pay off $15,000 in credit card debt.
Okay. Cool. I know you're gonna make one more call. I know you're gonna knock one more door.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Then the it'll be cool to make $250. No why behind it.
Steve: Yeah.
John: And then once you have that why, like you said, then you take that and develop a plan. Because every type performer has like, everybody that I know that has success has three things. They have absolute clarity of where they're trying to get.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: They have a precise plan, and then there's consistency in which they execute that plan.
Steve: Right.
John: As long as you do those three things, you're gonna be fine.
Steve: Impossible to fail.
John: Hey. As long as
Steve: you do impossible to fail.
John: As long as you just do those three things.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So awesome.
Great timing. What else?
John: Well, Well, that's what is in the book.
Steve: Well, because I think, what you, mentioned was, like, this is the book you wish you had picked up
John: Yes. When you were young. Yes. It is. There's things like yes.
That's the actual plan and execution there. It also talks about how to get accountability, about accountability circles, what works, why things work. But also things like how to develop partnerships, how to find mentors, how to build value to others so they see value in you. You know, it's funny. I did, Hannah Hammond, who I know you know.
Mhmm. And, you know, you flip through somebody's Instagram before you meet them, and you're like, this person, I see her with Robert Kiyosaki Mhmm. A lot. And they're and I'm like and before I knew her, my my instant gut reaction is, wow. That's Robert Kiyosaki.
I wonder what he sees in this person. And then you you spend an hour with her and you're like, I completely sees what he sees in her. This is a really sharp human Yeah. That is unbelievably talented. So it's about how to develop those relationships that are gonna get you where you wanna go.
Because if you try to do this by yourself, it's gonna be tough.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: Well, it's
Steve: all about trying to do it yourself. And we met Yeah. At a mastermind.
John: Yes. We did. That's in their book too. Yeah. The importance of that.
Steve: Yeah. Do you wanna talk about that?
John: Sure. You know, for me, I love mastermind groups. I I love them. So many of of our friends in in that. But, again, that comes to surrounding yourself with the right people.
One of the hardest places I ever lived when I was moving around was Detroit, Michigan back in this isn't the late nineties when I had to move to Detroit, a, a, because I was a Florida guy and it was really cold there.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: But what I found was in Detroit, there's this cycle. At least there was the time. If you live in Detroit, don't hate on me. I mean, hopefully, it's changed by now. But back then, there was this cycle.
Like, you were born. Your dad worked at Ford. You went to high school. You married your high school girlfriend. You went to work for Ford with your dad, and you bought a house four down four houses down from them.
Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat. And how would you ever see beyond that? Right. Because that's all you see.
You've placed yourself in this echo chamber. And when you look around at the people you surround yourself with, if you're surrounded by people that aren't trying to strive for success, You've gotta find people that motivate you just like that. It was 18 people on The Apprentice. Made me see like, woah. You are underperforming for your potential.
Yeah. You've gotta get around people that do the same thing for you. And through the magic of the Internet and meetups, I mean, just being able to go like, you can go and do anything, but the key phrase in that is you can go.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: So many people are waiting for, like, hey. Maybe somebody's gonna call and invite me to go to something that's cool or I'll learn something. Like, no, dude. You've gotta seek that out for yourself. Yeah.
And those mastermind groups have been just invaluable because I I come back from those. You you asked me it was funny. I didn't go to the last one. You asked me why, and it's because my toxic trait, if I have one, is I hear somebody that does something to make money. I'm like, I I could do that.
I'm I'm gonna totally do that. How to
Steve: do the lesson?
John: I'll go down I'll go down the rabbit hole
Steve: of Yeah.
John: How to figure out whatever there is they're talking about. And I told Kent, who runs Boardroom Mastermind that I love, I was like, bro, I'm all booked right now until the end of the year. I gotta get this book watched, and then I'll be back. Because I can't I I know my focus, and it's gotta be razor sharp for this. Because I owe it to the people I'm trying to help to get this message out to as many people as I can.
Steve: Oh, absolutely. So, I wanna talk to you about the future of real estate before I do that. Yeah. Real quick. Guys, the episode to you is brought to you by Beck CFO, the go to tax and CFO firm for real estate entrepreneurs.
If If you're making money in real estate and you're not confident you're paying the least amount legally possible in taxes, you need Beck CFO. They specialize in entity structuring tax strategies and c f CFO level support that saves their clowns I'm sorry, that save their clients thousands every year. I use them for tax planning, and you should book a free consultation at beckcfo.com, beccfo.com. Okay. So I wanna talk about the the the future of real estate, but there's something I wanna ask you.
John: Sure.
Steve: Because clearly has gone through everything. I've got I've kinda got these thoughts in my mind. Right? I'm driving around town, music off, right, just observing. And I was thinking that everyone is just tapped out.
Everyone is just maxed out. And I think part of it is that they have met the level of adversity that they can handle. Yeah. Right? They just can't like, so if everyone seems overwhelmed, they're not actually living a difficult life.
It's just they're handling what they can handle. And then, you know, like, how many times you've broken through a plateau Yeah.
John: I love
Steve: that. Barriers. Like, hey. I figured this out, and you hit this next ceiling. Yeah.
Like, man, why The
John: goalpost keeps moving. What's happening?
Steve: Yeah. So, like, I just wanna get your get your thoughts. Like, is everyone, like, you know, if everyone seems maxed out, Tato, you're talking about the apathy, is it because they're just handling all the responsibility they can possibly handle, and that's the reason why they're stuck? It's just they can't and I think the masterminds kinda opens your mind to the possibilities, find shortcuts, your community helps you move forward. Mhmm.
But is everyone just, like, maxed out right now?
John: I think two things. I think number one, you've gotta fall in love with the process of whatever you're doing. Mhmm. Like, you've really gotta love the the action of what you're doing. If you don't, that's fine.
I always talk about, like, joining a fraternity was the best semester I ever had in my fraternity was when I was a pledge, and they were beating the crap out of us. It was way more fun than when you were brother on the other side of that. It's because the shared experience, the grind, the brotherhood that you had with with your pledge classes, you were going through it, even though it was much harder, it I always look back at that with so much more affection than anything else. Yes. It was hard, but I loved it.
And so if you don't genuinely love the work that you're doing, you need to find something that you do love. And I'm not saying that you'd be passionate, but you gotta fall in love with it. You you've gotta fall in love with the process. Because like you said, the goalposts are always moving. Mhmm.
Like, somebody asked me earlier today, they said, how was it to have because I just got these. Like, you this is literally the fifth one of these that's out in existence, Steve. There you go. These are the fifth podcast in the last few days. Not that I think you're fifth on the on the list.
You just
Steve: Oh, now I can take it first.
John: No. No. No. No. No.
But somebody asked me and said, how does it how does it feel to have this heart this real book in your hand after four years of putting this thing together? Yeah. And I said, it was cool for about five minutes. And then it immediately went from, okay. Cool.
I have it in my hand. Now we're gonna sell it.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: The goalpost moves.
Steve: Now what?
John: Instantly. Right? So now the goalpost moves. And that's okay because I didn't feel let down from that because I just knew that was part of the process. Yeah.
Because I've fallen in love with the process, lumps and all, ups and downs, mistakes and missteps of this because I'd never done this before.
Steve: Right.
John: So I made some missteps and and would go back and change some things if I could. However, here we are, and we're we're gonna figure it out, push it forward, and I'm gonna achieve the goals that I'm trying to achieve by putting the good thing out. So yeah. So I think you gotta fall in love with it, number one. And if you don't love what you need to do, you've gotta you've gotta start to find something you got juice about and understand the why.
Again, like I said before, I think I think the why is so underrated with things. And that's why you've got to have you gotta understand why you're doing things. One of the things I talk about in the book, I do a real short chapter on sales. Just, you know, I didn't go don't go super in-depth because I think people that aren't in sales need to start to develop some sort of sales skills. So I'd I'd said, okay.
What are some of, like if I had to give five sales skills, like, five if I had to pick, like, five things, then I would just say, if you got nothing else, start here. What is it? And one of those is the word because. There was a there was a a scientific study done at Harvard in, like, the seventies, and there was a copy machine in the law library that was always very busy. And so they did this, psychological experiment where they would the line was always long and they sent people up to the front line and they said, hey.
Can I cut in line? And the compliance on that was, like, 30%. Then they sent people up and said, hey. Can I cut in line because I have an emergency and I gotta get this done? That was, like, 95%.
Steve: Right.
John: And then they set the third group up and said, can I cut in line because I have to make some copies? Which is just nonsense. 93% compliance. The word because was was important. Mhmm.
And it's not just outbound when you're trying to move the needle with people to get them to do what you want. You've gotta understand why you're doing stuff.
Steve: Right.
John: So the why behind it. And I find people at capacity, if you ask them, like, why are you doing this? And they really had to stop and think, a lot of people at max capacity don't know why they're doing this. Right. They've lost that.
They don't add that North Star to govern themselves by. Because I find that people that have a true North Star, something they're trying to achieve, that's that burning thing that there nothing's gonna get between them. Yeah. They get tired. Yeah.
They get a little worn out. But when they really think about that thing they're trying to achieve, it rejuvenates them in a way that nothing else can. Yeah.
Steve: Perfect. Awesome. So I wanna talk to also now the future of real estate. Yeah. Because, you know, you've seen a lot.
You've
John: It's coming fast.
Steve: You've you've you've been around the block. Yeah. You're arms deep, knees deep, elbows deep in real estate. You think things are gonna change a little bit in real estate?
John: They already are changing.
Steve: Alright.
John: Here's how things are changing. They're changing fast. Number one, if you look at search engine, traffic, Google's down 30% already to chat.
Steve: Yeah. Right? ChatGPT alone is taking 30% of their traffic.
John: Yeah. Most of the traffic now is linked to ChatGPT. If you are not get get rid of SEO, you need to be AEO. You need to understand how you can come up in a conversational way with, with the robots when they ask. Because, you know, I I a kid in my office the other day who's heavy on mail, and mail still works in real estate.
It works great. But he said, hey. Like, I'm noticing houses come up on my farm, and I didn't get a call. Like, it's weird to me. Like, they just listen with this person, and I don't know who this person is.
And so because people are asking the robots. And if the robot says this is the best person, unsophisticated people are just like, well, you know, Chad GVT said this is the best person in my area.
Steve: GVT win a lot.
John: Yeah. But they don't realize that all Chad GVT is doing is regurgitating what somebody fed it on their website, and it happened to index that site.
Steve: Well, what I found probably right now, considering it's really what they found on Reddit.
John: Yeah. Exact well, yeah. Reddit, huge, huge, huge, huge, huge. And I'm very grateful that we have positioned ourselves very high in all the searches, and I love it. So I thought I have a beach head there that I'm trying to defend, which is great.
Steve: Yeah.
John: So that's number one. Number two is there is a arms race going on right now for the consumer. And and what has happened is a lot of people don't understand that when Rocket bought, when Rocket bought Redfin, they were trying to
Steve: get up funnel. Which is massive.
John: Massive. They're but they're trying to get up funnel to the buyer. They don't wanna depend on realtors anymore to send them business. They're like, okay. We're just gonna circumvent that process.
Steve: So I think let's let's break it down. Let's not assume that everyone knows what Rocket and Redfin
John: will Go ahead.
Steve: So Rocket was So
John: so Rocket Mortgage is a massive lender. Like, one of the two biggest. There's UWM, United Wholesale Mortgage, and Rocket. Rocket's massive.
Steve: Rocket's the one that advertises their new super
John: Yes. They they got they got deep pockets. Yeah. So Rocket, their model has been direct to lender so people can call Rocket as they advertise in the Super Bowl. Mhmm.
But most of the the flow of real estate has always been, you get a realtor first and then the realtor introduce you to a lender, and then that's how you get your mortgage is traditionally speaking how that process goes. Well, Rocket's trying to flip that on its head. So Rocket goes out and buys Redfin, which is a heavily trafficked search website.
Steve: Yeah. I think right behind Zillow consistently as far as net quality or anything else. Just on Google.
John: Traffic. Yeah. Just on traffic. Yeah. But trying to get themselves up funnel.
So now they're like, okay. We can get to the consumer faster if we get them trapped if we catch them first. But then here's the real coup. Right? So then they go out by mister Cooper.
Mister Cooper is the third largest servicing company in The United States. So if you get a mortgage, you get a statement or an email every month from, from your servicer. Here it is, mister Cooper. Now traditionally, that's just been, here's your payment. Here's your interest.
Here's your escrow account. It's gonna change whatever. Here's your notice. Blah blah. That's all it's been.
But now you're gonna start to see that change in the next six months because Rocket's goal is to trap the consumer in this closed end loop. You're gonna start seeing information on that mister Cooper statement, which is, hey. Here are houses that have sold around you. Hey. Here's an automatic value model for your house.
Hey. Click here if you wanna refinance or see what you could get. Hey. Here's your equity position. So they're trying to trap that consumer in this loop because it's gone from single use customer, which so so many in real estate are.
I mean, realtors are terrible notoriously at keeping up with their clients, which is, like, 80% of people don't use the same realtor twice. And so they're thinking we can trap the consumer in this closed end loop. And then when they're ready, they click. We'll just be able to capture them again and keep them moving. Zillow has been moving to this forever trying with their super app.
Trying to keep you on their super app and now Zillow Mortgage with the flex teams that work for them, they're trying to force them based their lead flow is now based on how many prequels they get through Zillow Mortgage, which I think that'll probably be legally challenged at some point, but that's not for me to say. Yeah. But, again, trying to trap the consumer in this loop. So there's the and they are gonna about to do a heavy push you're gonna see. Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy push where Zillow is gonna push clients to, claim their home.
Mhmm. They want you to claim your home in Zillow so they have all your information. And what's more is what's like, you look at the terrifying moves they're making, trying to become it's like Godzilla and and, whatever's Megadon fighting in the in the bay. Follow-up Boss, which is a serum that so many people use, was purchased by Zillow, oh, a year and a half, two years ago. And I was always like, no.
No. No. No. We're gonna silo this off. This is its own business.
Steve: You can trust me. I'm a corporation.
John: You can trust me. I'm a yeah. I'm a corporation. It's fine. And it went from, we're never gonna look at your data.
To then, maybe about eight months ago, it became, well, you know, strictly for, like, metrics purposes, we can look at your data. And now that just became, if you have a client in your follow-up boss CRM and their email address matches an account in Zillow, which everybody has a Zillow account, well, now that became our client. So when they see them searching for property within your CRM over here, now they know and they can hit your client. Like, we advise all of our agents to get on the follow-up boss business. Do what you want.
I'm not here to ruin a business, but I just don't think that's really good to have Zillow looking your stuff. And it's so funny with Zillow and and and realtors still. It's like Siegfried and Roy. Right? We have fed this tiger.
We our listings. We fed it all of our data. We feed it all of our information, and we did this. And, like, agents are surprised when the tiger ate Siegfried and Roar. Like, that's what happened to them.
They care they love the tiger. They fed the tiger, and then the tiger ate them.
Steve: Mhmm. And
John: this tiger is trying to eat you. So what we're doing to counter that at our level is we're working with a company that we really like to build us our own ecosystem that our clients can use, and it's built a little bit differently. Because rather than home values and those sorts of things that people you know, they look at them every once in a while, but they don't necessarily, like after a couple months, they opt out if they're not thinking that way. What we've done is build a portal where our clients can manage their house very similar to the way that you would do it. It'll record all of your data.
It has an AI database of, like, 90,000 appliances in it. Every appliance in your house, everything gonna happen. Or, like, if your hot water heater goes out, you can go out to the garage, take a picture of hot water heater. It'll look it up and say, like, okay. That's a what hot water here from here.
It's 2022. It's still under warranty. Here's the warranty information. Mhmm. Or if your ice maker goes out of your whatever, it'll will have all the information on how to troubleshoot it.
If it doesn't work, it'll then have a vendor network that you can just call somebody and they'll come right out. But it's stuff that you actually need through the process of owning your home. You can put in how often you change your filters, and it will remind you to change them again. How often you change the smoke alarm? It'll remind you to do that.
But it also has all that other information involved in it with, like, hey. Here's your house valuation. Here's houses that are sold at. Hey. Here's what you could refi to.
It has all that same information. Because we are gonna spend the next six months trying to trying to literally protect our beachhead with our clients by giving them a tool that we feel is incredibly high value for them. Mhmm. But when they are ready to sell again, I want them in my ecosystem and not over here in Zillow or Rockets. And a lot of people aren't going to react to this properly, and it's gonna be too late.
You have got to to draw a digital fence around your client base. You've gotta do
Steve: it. Well
John: That's the biggest change.
Steve: Well, I think it's massive what you're talking about.
John: Because it's like,
Steve: there's this we've been going through this big data thing for a while. Right? Big data has been a big thing for quite some time. And the difference now with, and it with big data, you could do machine learning. But, like, we've now added this layer of AI to it and the ability to predict.
Right? You just feed the data. It just knows more. Right? And so if you're not keeping the the competition out, then you can't you've got no one else left to blame when they seize your clients.
John: Yeah. I would venture to guess that within the next three years, every homeowner in America is gonna be in one of these systems. They're gonna be in there.
Steve: So it's either gonna be the the, the
John: super app, the rocket loop Mhmm. Or whatever else that if you're a smart agent and work with a good brokerage that's building something to help protect you, which, like, we are.
Steve: Yeah. So that's kind of a scary place to be.
John: Yeah. Well, I mean, look. I think that but, again, that's one of those things where if I worked at a franchise, I wouldn't be thinking about this. Because I would be like, well, what are we doing next? Yeah.
But I'm like, okay. I see this. I'm like, we need we need we've gotta create our own tool for agents to protect their interests going forward for the next however many years. And we need to I I wanna have something that is of incredibly high value that's going to be user based for our clients. But the cool thing about it is is I'm an agent standpoint because we're giving this to our agents.
Right? So say an agent has a system because you can control the vendor base in it. So let's say you have a friend that has a painting company, then you can go to him and say, hey. I'll put you in here as the only painter. If somebody needs a painter.
But what I want you to do is I want you to send this out to every one of all of your clients you've ever had. And let's capture all of your clients into the system as well. Mhmm. So now that database, I'm going from CRM of active searching to it's what it's gonna come is it's gonna go from active searching CRM search to passive within one of these networks. But every time somebody does something within our system, our agent will get pinged.
Steve: Right.
John: Hey. These people are looking in for the home value. Hey. These people are looking at homes, whatever. Hey.
This person just your client just called to get a the refrigerator fixed. What a great touch. Hey. What's wrong with the fridge? Right.
What's going on? Keeps you top of mind with them.
Steve: Kinda reminds me. So I'm looking at commercial spaces. Yeah. Yeah.
John: I'm trying
Steve: to buy I'm trying to figure out. Do I wanna buy it on a lease? Right? Right. And, I'm on.
Right? Yeah.
John: It's a
Steve: real estate one. And just me clicking around, I've gotten so many calls. Yeah. So many calls. So many voice mail
John: Are you saying they sold your data seat? No.
Steve: Well, Summer, who runs my company here, basically, she's like, why do they keep calling us? Right? Because it goes to my voice mail Yeah. Which means she gets it.
John: Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Steve: And she's like, this is ridiculous. Like, honestly, if I was paying to be a licensed agent, a commercial agent on Crexi, I would require this.
John: Oh, yeah.
Steve: So I'm For sure. Proud of these guys who are reaching out to me.
John: Let me
Steve: just get my voice mail. Yeah. But, like, kudos to you for calling me just because I'm snooping around the website.
John: For sure.
Steve: Yeah.
John: For sure. I I wanna know, like, in the future, if you really wanna be good in in the and this is in the agent space. But even you I wanna know whenever people wanna do it wanna know what they're doing. Mhmm. But I think you're gonna see, like, even the guys in the wholesale the wholesale space.
Mhmm. Like, you're not gonna have a chance to get to that cash offer because you're gonna these people are gonna be trapped in these ecosystems, and there's gonna be those options Yeah. They're sitting there.
Steve: So let me ask you this, because you're obviously, we're both in boardroom. Right? Yeah.
John: A
Steve: lot of wholesalers in there, but there's also a lot of realtors. Yeah. Big amount of realtors.
John: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: I've kinda had this vision for the longest time that eventually, it's just gonna be you do both. You do cash. You do realtor. Basically, you're a problem solver for the homeowner. Yeah.
If you go in there with just one solution, I think what I've said is long term, you're gonna have a hard time because there is this massive pressure on, commissions.
John: Yeah.
Steve: And there's eventually gonna be massive pressure on the assignment fees.
John: Here's my problem with wholesale in general. Sure. Right? I think as a concept
Steve: Mhmm.
John: It is deceptive
Steve: Mhmm.
John: To start out because the you could these guys go online. They take a class. They pay whatever, and then they they get on the phones and start banging calls. Right? And they say, I wanna buy your house.
Steve: Right.
John: When they don't have 50¢ to rub together.
Steve: Sure.
John: There's no intention of them to buy this house. Zero. So they're presenting it that way. That, I think, is is the is the piece that gives wholesalers a bad name.
Steve: Is it only that piece?
John: I think it well, I think I think I think yeah. I'm gonna start with that because other than that, buyer beware. As long as you're like, I'm gonna take this to my network of investors and then they're gonna buy it and I'm gonna make a little bit of money on it. Great. Fine.
But when you're coming into the guys of, I'm going to buy your house, and they you know, an an unsavvy person doesn't understand what and or signee means
Steve: Right.
John: That creates the problem for me.
Steve: Well, I've never seen this enforced. But everyone I talk to that, you know, is an attorney considers that to be fraudulent.
John: It is.
Steve: But I've never seen anything done about now I've been on I've come I've come on record on this podcast and said, like, that is fraud. That is you're getting was it a contract by the seeds? Yes. Right? But nothing's ever been done about it.
No.
John: Well, yeah, it is now. Mhmm. Look, South Carolina just did something about it.
Steve: South Carolina.
John: Nevada was this close to doing something about it. Yeah. And and it and then I'll I'll I'll I will tell you this right now. In two years from now, when the session comes back Yeah. You will not be able to wholesale Nevada.
Steve: Think so.
John: I know so. Yeah. I got an event on money with the governor. I absolutely know so. Because here's why.
Mhmm. What they're going to say is you're not allowed to market a property for resale in any way, shape, or form unless you are 51% deeded equity owner. Yeah. It's like not a novation. I mean, you've gotta be recorded on the deed at 51% to market a property for sale unless your licensed realtor marketing it on the open market.
Yeah. So they're gonna kill it because because, again, that's the problem is you have people that are just fast and loose. Mhmm. You know, they come into a market. And I and look.
I do believe there's a thing for every product. I believe there's a a re a time for every product. Yeah. There are people that are in desperation. There are people that their mom died.
They live in another state. They just don't care. They just want out of it. I get that. I totally understand that.
But there's way too much fast and loose. There's no governing body.
Steve: There's not.
John: There's nobody policing any of this. And the problem is the fast and loose is going to bring down the professionals that
Steve: do. It's, it's a classic, because one kid was loud. Yeah. Everyone
John: Everybody has to stand against the wall. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Go take your medicine.
Steve: Yeah. It sucks because I wasn't that kid. Yeah. I wasn't that kid in school. Yeah.
But I remember all those times, like, okay. So we don't get to have recess today.
John: Yeah. Because of Jack.
Steve: Yeah. Thank you.
John: Did it again.
Steve: Yeah. Well, you say Jack because you're John.
John: Right? I can't blame. Well, honestly, it probably was me doing it, so John is probably it's probably fair to say.
Steve: Over there. Right? He's mouthing off, and now none of us get to go to recess.
John: Totally fair. Totally totally fair.
Steve: So alright. So now I wanna go back to, a few different things here. So first, escaping the drift. That's available now on Amazon?
John: You you pre buy it now everywhere. Pre buy it Barnes and Noble everywhere. It drops November 11.
Steve: Yeah. Well, this is gonna come on November 9.
John: Okay then. Yes. Two days from now, it'll be out.
Steve: Two days from now, it will be out. Actually, I gotta make another joke too. Please. Right? Because Is
John: it my expense, I hope?
Steve: Our the industry.
John: Okay.
Steve: So, because right now, it is, October 31.
John: Yes.
Steve: The the the the thing that I always laughed at was the number one marketing material for realtors was the emails about daylight savings. That grunt. You know what I'm talking about?
John: Yeah. Dude, For me for me, I leave I leave with the turkey recipe as my favorite.
Steve: The turkey recipe?
John: The turkey recipe for for Thanksgiving. That was my favorite. Like, what? Nonsense.
Steve: Alright. Send this email out as as daylight savings is changing. Alright. So for you, so you're talking about what you wanna be remembered for, or what's you you wanna create this legacy. What is your biggest struggle today?
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John: What is my biggest struggle? You know, imposter syndrome. I always struggle with it. I I always do. Every time every time I as I sit here and I think about the other people that I admire that have written books to help other people and you struggle with, like, who am I to do this?
Every time I go to an event and I'm speaking and you're in front of, you know, some massive people behind you, you're like, what am I doing here? And how I reconcile that within myself is I take a deep breath and I say, look. If there's 2,000 people out there, if I can really, really, really help one of them, it was worth doing. And and that's the goal. But, yeah, I think anybody that's honest says it's gotta be imposter syndrome as you level up.
Steve: I don't know. I don't necessarily agree with that.
John: Really?
Steve: Yeah. That that has been the one that's one of the things that's hardest for me to understand, honestly.
John: Really?
Steve: Imposter syndrome. And it's because, for me, you're a very confident person. Obviously, you have not lacked for confidence. But the thing that, you know, we talk about, like, superpowers. That was what my friends have always said was irrational confidence.
Like, I think I deserve everything I get. Right? It's crazy. So I'm probably broken. Right?
John: No. I love that.
Steve: No. No. I love that. But if it helps, there are plenty of authors that are complete failures in life. Bestselling authors.
John: This is a good point.
Steve: Right? So if you're trying to measure, like, what do I do to deserve this? Reality is, like, there are some authors that should they have been were they truly qualified to write that book? Like, the today's social media is the equivalent of, like, the eighties, like, I'm a published author.
John: Yeah. Yes. Yes.
Steve: Right? So if you're given if that's the problem, just remember, there are a lot of authors there that so you're more accomplished than a lot of other authors out there.
John: You know you know what else terrifies me?
Steve: What's that?
John: And this you'll maybe you'll appreciate this based on what you said. The thing that scares me the most of anything really is am I a narcissist? Mhmm. And I've always, like, every time I see one of those, are you a narcissist? Mhmm.
And I'm always, like because I because it just and I can't think the funny thing about it is the fact that I'm worried about being a narcissist is prohibits me from being a narcissist. Like, that'd be a like, if you're even concerned about it, you can't be.
Steve: I've had that fear.
John: Have you?
Steve: And that's what they say to me.
John: Me. Yeah. Yeah. The fact
Steve: they're concerned about it means you're not.
John: You're not. Right?
Steve: Okay.
John: Unrational fear. Yes. There we go.
Steve: That's a relief. And then your superpower, what you were saying was your EQ? Yeah. So Talk to me about
John: that. So, yeah, when I was a kid, I I went through a period in eighth grade where I got my mouth talked me into a physical altercation that I probably wasn't willing to have, which resulted in me being ostracized from all of my friends and relentlessly teased over that situation for a whole thing.
Steve: And Was the other person, like, a lot bigger than you?
John: Yeah. I don't remember. He yeah. I mean, he doesn't remember. I was exactly a fighter back in the day.
I was a mouthy kid. I wasn't exactly a fighter. I deserved it. Don't get me wrong. But yeah.
But then my friends turned on me, and and it really just
Steve: Oh, really?
John: Yeah. It was, you know, chicken. I was just it ostracized me for a whole year, and it was bad. And that experience showed up in me as people pleasing. So I would say whatever.
You know? I I it really became important to me for people to like me. And I would say, you know, sometimes younger things that weren't true or be a chameleon to try to become someone that they thought that was true and not being a real person. Right? But where that has changed and morphed into my superpower late in life is it's giving me incredibly high EQ.
Like, I absolutely know when somebody likes me or is vibing with me. Mhmm. Or I know exactly how far I can push in negotiating deals. Like, I I can feel it exactly how far I can push the envelope before it breaks. And so I tell people it's funny.
I love when I've gotten more listings with this story, because it's true, than I have with any tool that I've ever had. Because when I'll sit down with somebody that is, you know, selling an $8,000,000 house and they're like, what's different about you than everybody else? We we all use the same stuff. Like, there's gonna be no difference in the market.
Steve: Matter part.
John: Here's the deal. I say, I'm the best deal maker you'll ever meet because my superpower is this incredibly high EQ because of this. Mhmm. I I know how to make a deal. I I will get you the best possible deal.
And more importantly, I understand how to get across the finish line because I know exactly how far I can push people. Mhmm. And they're just like and they that but that's you don't hear that too often No. In a listening presentation. And and they're like, okay.
This dude's for real.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: And that's my superpower Mhmm. Is really being in tune with people. So I took something that was an incredible trauma and weakness for me and turned it into a a a thing that's incredible resilience for me. Yeah.
Steve: Well, I love that. Yeah. Ed Mylett talks about, in his talks, like, it was the fact that his dad was this crazy drunk, and he had to be able to read real quick tonight which dad am I getting. Yeah. Right?
Like, am I am I gonna get the dad that is piss drunk? I gotta make him laugh so he doesn't beat my sister. Yeah. Right? Or am I gonna get, like, the dad's gonna be okay so I could just beat myself?
Yeah. Right? Like, he was like, you had to read within a few seconds what the dynamic room is. Yeah. Right?
And then react accordingly.
John: Oh my gosh.
Steve: Right? But you talk about, like, you know, the trauma that forces this. Right? Like, you probably had element of it, but now you really got to hone it.
John: Yeah. I mean, I agree with that. I think, you know, so many people wanna use previous trauma where they were as an excuse to justify their current situation. And and I have never been wanting to do that. I'll tell you another story about the book that somebody who's trying to sell books probably wouldn't say, which is I got a review.
So if you go with a publisher, there's a organization called Publishers Weekly, which is like the reviewer for, like, Barnes and Noble and, like, the people that buy books. And I got a call from my publicist. They said we got a review. I keep in mind my book did incredibly well because they beta tested it to markets and did all kinds of stuff. Did very well in that.
And I was excited to get this first, like, official critics type review. So I get it, and I read it, and it was not complimentary. And I was like, oh my gosh. That's terrible. And I'm probably saying, like, oh, you're trying to sell books for you.
Tell us if they said crazy. I suck. Here's why. I went to bed a little upset about it, and I woke up the next morning and I read the review again. And I said, oh my god.
I love this review. Here's why. Because the reviewer keep in mind, it's one person that works for this company that has their view of the world. And they wrote the review and they wrote this. They wrote, occasionally, my advice can come off as trite because I don't acknowledge the myriad of systematic issues, and I present all problems as solvable.
And I was like, you bet your ass I do. Of course. Yes. I absolutely do. Because just like this podcast, right, you've probably sought across sat across people that have no business being anywhere near the level of success they've had
Steve: Yes.
John: Based on where their starting line was. But here they are because they refused to buy into that bullshit Mhmm. And they saw all of their problems as solvable and pushed through. And I absolutely believe the same. Yeah.
So that that's the point.
Steve: So you embrace that review.
John: Embrace it. I love that review. I'm telling you, I tell literally tell everybody about that review because, of course, if not, I was a little disappointed that, obviously, my book didn't change that opinion, but that was a deep seated opinion in somebody.
Steve: Well, yeah, that was embedded. That that's embedded. That's programming.
John: Yeah. That's that's hard programming. That they're mad at me because I refuse to acknowledge it, that the man is holding them down or or the world's coming to get them or the government is coming to, you know, do whatever.
Steve: You're clearly privileged, Sean.
John: You're clearly Clearly. Clear. No. Look. I acknowledge the starting lines are always different.
Everybody has might have a different starting line. Mhmm. But where you wind up is a 100% within your control.
Steve: Oh, absolutely. And it kinda goes back to what I was saying, like, earlier. It's like, you know, like, everyone's at the level of what they can accomplish. Yeah. That person's level
John: will be a little different. Is is book reviewer for there you go.
Steve: Yeah. And then what was I would say, what what is your biggest regret or or lesson that you learned the most from in your life?
John: I regret wasting time. I I regret not taking control for my own actions and and and my own trajectory of my life. Because once I started doing it, the results were phenomenal. I I mean, just once you really started getting behind yourself and believing in yourself and, you know, like I said, having that North Star, setting a vision of where you wanna be, and creating core values that align with that, and then having a plan and and then actually executing on that plan with a high level of consistency in doing that, it changed my life in every aspect. You know, I I have a plan for every aspect of my life, and it really changed my life.
So living in a way where, gosh, I just it was every day was Groundhog Day, and and what's gonna happen to John today? You know?
Steve: So I wouldn't make the argument here
John: Yeah.
Steve: That you're the contrarian. Right? In this world of personal development Okay. You typically hear what's your biggest regret, and everyone always says, like, I have no regrets. I wouldn't be the person I am today if I weren't for all that.
You're the contrarian.
John: Totally. Yeah. Totally. Totally.
Steve: Yeah. So let's let's let's dive a little deeper into it. Yeah. So, because I've said the same things
John: as well.
Steve: Like, look. I've made some boneheaded mistakes. Right? But, like, the work like, the biggest mistakes is where I learned the biggest lessons where I can say next time that won't happen. Yeah.
Yeah. But then you got Keith Cunningham's point of view, which is like, if you can undo your three worst financial choices, decisions where would you be today?
John: You wouldn't learn anything.
Steve: Yeah. You wouldn't learn anything, but you also might be a lot further ahead. Yeah. So, like
John: It it's give and take. Like, well, you know, my office is like you know, people go into people's offices and they have a lot of accolades and their awards and their step up. Mine is like a serial killer's trophy room to my own finances. Like, I'm like, I have trophies of missteps and failures everywhere in my office. And they range from the $100,000 bottle of items we talked about to, you know, things like I have a script from from David Flabot framed on my wall.
So Who's that? David Flabot was the guy that wrote Will and Grace. Okay. He wrote a bunch of the big NBC sitcoms that were very popular. And he had seen me on The Apprentice, and I get a phone call from the casting director that says, David Flobot would like you to fly to New York and read for the lead of his new sitcom pilot.
And I said, what? I'm not an actor. They said
Steve: it again?
John: It's called Goody's Place was the name of it. Thank god they did not make this show. Thank god because we're the story owners, so why? So I get the script. They they FedEx it to me.
And I'm like, okay. I'll do it. So they FedEx me the script, and I'm going through it. Never did anything like this. And on page two, it says, enter Goody Valletta.
And the description of the character so the one you're playing. The description is mid thirties, kind of doughy, boyish charm, but by no means man candy is what the description. And at the time, I'm like young fit kinda dude. I'm like, oh my god. This is what they this is what they think of me.
This is horrible. Mhmm. So I'm reading it a couple pages more and then inbox his cousin. And it says, tall, loud, obnoxious, think Ben Spahn from swingers. And back then, if I had a nickel before both looked like chewed bubblegum, if I had a nickel for every time I got compared to Vince, I'd be like, okay.
Cool. Now yes. So I was like, I see what has happened here.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: So I go to New York, and I go to this casting director's office. And we walk in, and there's a guy behind a camera. And the casting director is sitting there with a notepad. How are you doing? I'm like, I walk in.
I'm like, hi. I'm John Gafford. She's like, hi. And I go, I believe there's been a mistake.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: At which point, I'll never forget the camera guy goes like this, like that. And I said, yeah. You guys have made a mistake. And she's like, I'm sorry? And I go, yeah.
You said this to me and you said you wanted me to read for this, but I think what you meant was this. And I'll never forget the look on her face. She goes, you can read for whatever you want. I was like, oh, oh, no. Oh, god.
So I read for the other thing, and needless to say, I never heard anything else. And when I called my buddy in LA to tell him about it, who was trying to be an actor, he was like, no. No. No. No.
Those place things, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. Like, you just walked in and pitched them a problem. And the life lesson I learned from that is I don't ever ever assume I know what anybody wants. And can you imagine if that would become like the next Seinfeld that I'd watch that thing?
Yeah. It would have been a disaster. Thank god they never made it, but that's I keep that up as a friendly reminder.
Steve: That was I was saying it's not a show or not?
John: They they did a pilot, obviously, with some but I don't even know who was in it. Some other actors. But NBC did not pick it up and make the show.
Steve: Got it. But the point of that was just to see how compliant you are? Or
John: No. No. The point was I went up there and they had asked me like, I'm a non actor, and I came up and they wanted me to read for a part. And I assume they made a mistake, and I walked in and they're like, next.
Steve: Mhmm.
John: There's 8,000,000 people trying to get this part, and you're gonna walk in off the street. No no experience. And you're gonna tell us we made a mistake. Mhmm. When we didn't, we really did want you to do what we wanted you to do.
You just assumed something different. And that was the that was the mistake, because I assumed I knew what they wanted Yeah. When I didn't. And so from then, when I'm doing business or I am looking to have a relationship or fulfill something for somebody, I make damn crystal clear I understand what they want
Steve: Yeah. I see. Because of that. Huge. Huge.
What else? Because I it sounds like you got a few of these.
John: Oh, dude. Yeah. So then there's the $100,000 bottle of vitamins. That was when I left the car business to start the MLM. We had, we were my sister was, at the time, the COO for some very large players in Amway.
Huge players. Like, their territory was all of England and, like, a huge swath of The United States. Everybody in the downline was part of their thing, and she ran that business. My sister was like, we can start our own MLM. And it started out with, we're gonna do energy drinks.
And then the energy drink thing was too hard, so they were like, oh, we'll do nutritional supplements. He might neither one of us knew any of us nutritional supplements. I had my my buddy, Rick, that was the from WorldCom, had played football at the University of Florida, was friends with Emmitt Smith, who who had played football at the University of Florida. So he was like, I can bring Emmett Smith. We'll have these football players.
Great. So I threw in a $100. We threw all this money, and then we went and got a warehouse full of vitamins. Built the MLM imaging before we ever asked anybody if they wanted to buy one. And I'll get take a wild guess what happened, Steve.
Nobody wanted to buy one. Right when we launched is when WorldCom imploded.
Steve: Oh, jeez.
John: So my buddy went to a very dark place because he just lost everything in that WorldCom implosion. There was no Emmitt Smith. There was no anybody, And we didn't know a thing about selling nutritional supplements. So we end up throwing almost all of them in the trash over years over the year, a year and a half later, except for the one bottle that I have on my desk to remind me to don't ever ever invest in the manufacturing of a product until I am damn sure there's a market for it.
Steve: Man, I'm guessing you got treasure trove.
John: Oh, yeah. It's it's it's it's terrifying.
Steve: So we gotta wrap up here. So before we do, if if someone wanted to connect with you, what is the best way?
John: I'm everywhere on all the on all the socials at the John Gafford. You can go to my website, www.thejohngafford.com, where you can buy the book, check out the podcast, all that stuff, see where I'm speaking. If you wanna check out the podcast, it's escaping the drift, same name as the as the book. It's everywhere.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I'm personally gonna go back and watch the whole apprenticeship.
John: I'll give a spoiler alert. I get fired. There you go. Just to just to help you out.
Steve: Alright. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming.
John: Steve. Always good to see you, buddy.
Steve: Thank you guys for watching. See you guys next time.
John: Shout out to Steve Train. Jump on the Steve Train. Disrupt us.
