Jack Bosch Shares How He's Flipped 4000 Properties to Generate Lifetime Cash Flow

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we've got Jack Bosch, AKA The Land Guy. And he's and he's here to share how he sold 4,000 plus properties and how he's teaching people to generate lifetime cash flow. If this is your first time tuning in, I am Steve Trang, broker and owner of Stunning Homes Realty, founder of the Offer Fast Homes app, the only app you will need for wholesaling.

And I am on a mission to create 100 millionaires. So if you're interested in joining us, please follow me on Instagram. We can, connect that way. And if you're excited for today's show, please give me a wave, give me a thumbs up. And as a friendly reminder, I do not charge a dime for this show.

I don't make any money doing this. So here's all I ask. This is what it costs for you to listen to this show. If you get value today, please tell a friend. You can share this episode right now, tag a friend below, or tell your best takeaway later on.

That way, we can all grow together. And don't forget, this is a live show. So, please post your questions and Jack will be very happy to answer them for you. You ready?

Jack Bosch: I'm

Steve: ready. Alright. So, what got you into real estate?

Jack: Well, that's a cool setup by the way here. Oh, thank you. This what got me into real estate? So I'm from Germany originally. And I came over here in 1997 to fair to finish my college degree.

And after you work here, after you go to university or college for one year, you get a work permit for one year. So, I wanted to try it. I also met a girl. Long story short, she's now married to me for seventeen years.

Steve: So

Jack: it worked out. And we decided to stay here. She's not from here either. She's from Honduras. So we, Central America.

So, we decided to stay here, got a job, got working, did the typical kind of thing. Like got a job, got a house, got a car. Got a bunch of debt. And, five years later, or three years later, I was like in-depth up to here, stressed out, and I was like, that, that really can't be the trajectory of my life right now. I mean, I've been, that was what you've been trained for.

It's what, what, what the world kind of like, prepares you for and, and what nobody ever questions. But I was like, this is not what I want. And, plus I I the only job I could get was in an industry that I wasn't an expert in. Just because as a college student in Germany, I had some experience in that industry. So that's why I was able to get in there.

They were able to sponsor my Visa. They were able to get me the green card dealt immediately and so on. But but I was really unhappy basically. So what got me started in real estate is just being unhappy. And and not wanting to deal with that for the rest of my life.

And and it wasn't software consulting kind of thing. Is I was like, and I don't know anything about software. So I was like the business analyst Basically, I was traveling, being at customer sites, being away from my girlfriend and our wife for long times. And and at dinners, I was sitting with guys that that the average person around me was doing this for like anywhere between twelve and twenty five years. And I was just like, this is not going to be me.

I'm not going to be getting on an airplane or in a car on Monday morning, driving or flying a few hours, being somewhere in some cheap hotel, eating airport, eating hotel food and working till midnight. This is just not gonna be it.

Steve: Alright. So what year did you make the leap?

Jack: We made the leap. We start we tried figuring this out in 1999.

Steve: Okay.

Jack: But it took us a full three years of back and forth, trial and error because we had little time, little money, to to make this kind of work. Didn't know about seminars or things like that, about courses, about stuff that could accelerate your path. We just tried stuff. And tried stuff, weren't successful, and then finally, at the end of 2002, it was successful. And then it started, then it skyrocketed.

Yeah. But I could only quit my job at the 2003. Mhmm. Because it took that long to get the green card. Oh, I see.

So I basically, once you don't, when you don't have a green card, you can't just quit. Because then you're basically an illegal alien in the country. Mhmm. Because you have sixty days to find another job or, or leave the country. So I needed to stick with my job, built this part time and then transition once I had the green card, let go of the job and that's how we did it.

Steve: Okay. So you went, you did it 2003. What was the first thing you like? What was the first wholesale deal or real estate deal that you did?

Jack: That we successfully did. That was a little piece of land in Northern Arizona, in a little town called Snowflake, Arizona. And, you might know that.

Steve: Famous for a movie.

Jack: Is it? I didn't know.

Steve: Yeah, Fire in the Sky. Okay.

Jack: Well, don't watch it.

Steve: Don't watch it. It's creepy.

Jack: Is it creepy? Yeah. I mean, that town is it's not creepy, but it's actually quaint. But, anyway, it was a one acre lot, or about something like an acre, half an acre. So, I don't remember exactly anymore.

But, a lot with a house next door and a house across the street, and for for whatever reason, the seller didn't want it anymore. He was getting through a divorce. He was moving to Colorado. He was just leaving well, he wanted to leave like with a slate. He didn't wanna leave anything behind in Arizona.

So, it's kind of garage sale mentality, right? He just wanted to get rid of the thing, wasn't any use to him, just sucked property taxes out of his pocket. And, and he gave it to us for $400. Wow. Now, it's just a piece of land.

No house on it.

Steve: Right? Still $400.

Jack: But I figured my kind of did a little comp analysis and I saw other properties in the area should be kind of worth say 8 to $10,000. So is that right? $400? 8 to $10? I mean, what can go wrong?

Really? I mean, and honestly, nothing can go wrong. Right? I mean, like worst case scenario, somebody pays me $500 for it. Yeah.

But, but then literally a guy from across the street came over and and right on the spot offered me $4 for it, $4,000 on it. And I took that. That. I didn't even negotiate. I just like, I'll take it.

I got a deal. Because I was smiling up till here and I was like super excited.

Steve: No poker face yet.

Jack: No, no poker face. I mean, I had no experience.

Steve: Alright.

Jack: Like no experience with real estate whatsoever. I didn't even know the language of real estate. Like, so how did you find that particular property? We

Steve: of real estate. Like, so how did you find that particular property?

Jack: We did find that through direct mail. Mhmm. So the the way we came across that was that we learned about tax liens and tax deeds.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: So it's again, a concept that is not that doesn't exist like that in Europe where I grew up. It's it's something very American. You don't pay your taxes, they put a lien against it, and then the lienholder forecloses on it and you lose the property. Or in California and other states, the ex deeds states, they'll pay a property in Texas, they literally sell the property at an auction. Kinda like blew my mind.

Steve: Yeah. I

Jack: was like, what the heck is that? I mean, this is like amazing. The issue was we had, we tried to be successful in that area and we failed. So we went to a tax lien auction. We bought some tax liens and like three weeks later they were paid off by the, the owner came to the census realized, oh, I'm late late on taxes, paid the taxes and we got our money back and we got something like $3.72 in interest or so.

I was like, okay, this is not the way to get out of debt. You either have to buy like a 100,000, 200 or a million dollars worth of these things And I didn't have a million dollars. Or, it's not how it works. When the tax deed auction, we literally sent, I really sent my wife out to California to a tax deed auction on like airline miles and hotel points and stuff like that. Just like on, like really bootstrapping it.

And with all the money we had, which is like $3,500. And, and we identified three lots that were listed there for a thousand dollars each. And while she goes there and she's in his room full of sharks. Everyone knows what they're doing at these tax deed auctions. And within five minutes, these properties were bid up to like $10.15 grand.

So, she came home with nothing to show for. But then one day we realized, well, if these people don't want to pay their property taxes anymore, if they don't want their properties anymore, and they stop paying property taxes, doesn't that kind of mean that they kind of like have they want to wipe the hands of these properties just like they don't want to deal with us. They don't want to have them anymore. So why would we want to we we had the idea of like instead of waiting and waiting and waiting and going to these auctions, why don't we just send them a letter? Mhmm.

So that's what we did. So we basically went after the tax delinquent people, send them a letter. But the letter, the first letter we sent was just didn't respond. We didn't get any responses. We sent the wrong letter.

But then we tweaked the concept. We, we got like one the first time we ever wrote letters, we got one guy calling us. But he owed more in property taxes than the thing was worth.

Steve: We're like,

Jack: okay, well that didn't work. Yeah. Well, probably most people would have given up, but we were, to me that was actually a positive thing because like, oh my God, somebody answered. Right? Right.

Steve: So

Jack: I was excited that somebody answered. So I was like, let's do this again. Let's tweak it. And finally, when we got the letter right, we got responses. And this was one of the guy that responded.

He owed some property taxes like $300 and we paid him a 100. So the total was like $400 He didn't want it anymore. He had paid like a couple of years before paid, paid, paid, stopped paying property taxes. He just wanted to move to Colorado and he responded. He accepted our offer and the rest is history.

Steve: So you're known as the land guy.

Jack: Right.

Steve: Right. And most people are like, hey Steve, do you know anything about land? Nope. No interest in it. It's too hard to move.

So tell me why should anybody invest in land?

Jack: Well, land land is, my opinion, better than houses. And that's for many, many, many reasons. So number one, if you pick the right kind of land, it actually moves very quickly. Yeah. Right.

Secondly, we just sold two weeks ago. We sold the property that we bought for $8,000 We sold it for $47,000 Alright. And then the guy wanted the property next door too. So it's like, okay, take it two. So that's now it's, what is it?

$94,000 total? And for properties we bought, we paid, $16,000 for? Like, I'll take that any day of the week. Yeah. But the reasons why land is better is that first, I say jokingly, there's none of what I call the three T's.

There's no tenants. There's no toilets. There's no termites. Mhmm. But it really means much more.

What it means is that there's no mortgages. There's no because usually the land we focus on is below a $100,000 and most of this land is free and clear. Mhmm. Because banks don't lend on land usually on that kind of land, on that price point land. Mhmm.

So the owners have owned it usually decades for Inclear, so you're not dealing with a mortgage. Then there's also there's no foundation issues. There's no plumbing repairs. There's no mold. There's no inspectors.

There's no appraisers. There's there's no roof damages. There's no, foundation repairs. There's none of these things that you typically have to deal with houses.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Now I'm not saying houses are bad. Right? Correct. If you're in the house world, I wouldn't wouldn't come here and say that. Yeah.

As a matter of fact, I own over 40 rental houses myself. Okay. I own three apartment complexes adding up to 340, 340 doors. Wow. Okay.

So I own improved property. I own commercial properties. I own a car repair facility. I own all kinds of stuff that all pays casual. But, but my first love is the land because in land, you literally can because it's land, you don't even have to go see it.

You, because it's been enhanced for a lot of time and the people who own it, they have to pay property taxes. Some of them don't want to pay that anymore. Mhmm. Or they're sick and tired of it. Now, earlier I said that we went after tax delinquent ones.

We also realized that over time that 80% of our deals come from people who are are diligently paying their property taxes. So it's not a tax delinquent Mhmm. Technique that we're using. That's just how we got into it. But now 90% of our deals are are frankly clear.

Steve: So how do you target those?

Jack: And, so how we target those, we go get lists from a list service or from the County. I like to personally go to the County, but, when people get started, a lot of our students, when they get started, they go to a list service first and then they go get a smaller list of the, in the County. And what we do is we get like, let's say a list of a thousand records. And then we have some criteria that we filter it by, like for example, if you're in the outskirts of town, we focus on kind of three kinds of land. The outscore, infill lots in the city, and that we sell to builders.

Lots in the outskirts of town, just like in a few miles, right where the city ends. And a third one, larger acreage, more recreational land in rural areas. But if you go on the outskirts of town, usually there is properties there anywhere like from one to 10 acres in size, right? So if you have three, four miles out there, you probably don't want to buy a quarter acre. You want to buy an acre, two acres, three acres.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Cause those are only worth like, let's say $20,000 an acre versus five miles over in the city. It's worth $300,000 an acre. So you can add yet. So these are very attractive to like, to financial investors. They just wanna buy something and wait for the city to approach because they're in the path of growth and so on.

So we go get lists, we filter them down by kind of how long they have owned it, what the size of the property is, what the value is and so on. And then we send them a piece, that piece of direct mail that worked and that we since then over the last 4,000 deals, we have tweaked it and tweaked it and tweaked it and then split tested and made it better and better and better. Right.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. Very interesting. So I, you know, I did my research before before you came on. And, you know, you got some haters out there.

You got people who's like, oh, he's just another guru trying to sell the course. Sure. So what would you say to those guys?

Jack: Right. I say to them, if that's what they think, they don't have to, go in to land. But, I would want to say at the same time that probably our success, that our success rate is about a minimum of 10 times higher than, any of the house guys out there right now. So we just had an event two weeks ago where we had a 180 people there. Mhmm.

So I teach this obviously because that's what I said, guru. Yeah. We have been teaching this for ten years. And just like you have a I had to actually smile when you said you have a, goal of a 100 millionaires. We actually have a goal of a thousand millionaires that we put out there Oh, okay.

And have been putting out for a while. And we actually well met the 100 already. Oh, yeah? So we have, like, well, well over a 100 millionaires already that they're out there. So the bottom line is, like, I mean, we have a Facebook group.

If you want, I can share the name later on, where there is a bunch of our students, the majority of our students are in that Facebook group. Mhmm. And there's not a single day almost that passes without somebody posting their very first deal or their second deal or a brand new deal. And it's like literally hundreds of people posting brand posting deals all the time. So what I can say to that, I don't I don't wanna say I'm a guru, but, yes, I'm in that world where I'm teaching thing.

But, first of all, what gurus often do is they teach you half of what they need to know in a course, and then a quarter more in the live event, and you need to do coaching in order to learn it all. Mhmm. I don't believe in that. So we have a course that teaches everything. And, and the proof of it is that in our Facebook group, there's literally people posting stuff ever almost every day there's a new success story.

New success story. I mean, the success rates are off the charts

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Of our students. And I think that sets us apart. I mean, our stuff works like nothing else. Just because that's another reason why land, in my opinion, is better in houses is how many land guys do you know? You.

There we go. How many house guys do you know? And Mark. Alright. Yes.

That's great. But, how many house guys do you know?

Steve: A lot.

Jack: Exactly. So I would literally say that for every 100 to 500 house guys, there's one land guy.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: So what that means is that there's really barely any competition in the land area. Now, do you come across other people? Yes. But but it's not like like somebody might receive a letter once a year from somebody. Mhmm.

Here in the house world, they receive a 100 letters every week. Oh, yeah. So so it's like, it's a completely different world. So plus, you can get into the pieces of land at 5 to 25¢ on a dollar. So you can buy $20,000 piece of land for $3 and go sell it for 15 again.

Steve: So so that's a very interesting point. Right? Because people ask me and, again, I'm not the land guy. Right? So I was like, oh, I wish I'd offer this guy.

I was like, I don't know. I think you get it at 10¢ on a dollar, you could probably sell it for 30¢ on a dollar pretty quick. Exactly. So what is the rule of thumb on what you offer and what you sell it for?

Jack: So our rule of thumb is a sliding scale Mhmm. That, that the if a property is worth, let's say, the bottom end that we deal with I don't like to deal with less than $10,000. Properties are worth the less than $10,000. But a lot of our students go a little lower because they just their comfort level is there. And back when we probably of these 4,000 deals that we've done, 2,000 of them are, like, below $10,000.

But now where I'm now in my life, I I like to deal deal with the bigger deals because it's the same work and it's more profit. Mhmm. But a lot of people, when they get started, their comfort level is not there, so they start with a lower price. So if you let's say, if you have a $5,000 property, you cannot afford to offer fifth 25¢ on that on that thing. Right?

25% of market value. Because that would be what? That would be $1,250. Yeah. Plus closing costs, you have $2,000.

If you wanna sell that property at a discount for a quick sale, you sell it what? For $2,500, you don't make any money. Mhmm. So if you buy a $5,000 property, you gotta buy it for, like, $200. So my thing is when you go start at that level $200.

$200. Yeah. Yeah. We have bought I bought one time we bought a 110 properties for for $10,000. So the average there for is about $92 or so per property.

Wow. Alright. So and, at the live event again, there were people that had bought properties for $60, for $58, for a $100, and so on. And it and it happens, quite a bit actually. So you have to offer like $200 because with closing costs, now you're at a thousand and now you're selling at 25, you're making $1,500 and, hey, you do five of those in a month, you made a you can live of that.

Right? Yeah. And those properties are there like like like sand on the beach. Right? They're like lots of them.

So you

Steve: can do this all day?

Jack: You can do this all day long.

Steve: Right? Okay.

Jack: But you gotta go in very low. Now, in a $100,000 property, you're not gonna get that thing for $200. I mean, it's an illusion. Right? Anyone that tells you is lying.

Yeah. You don't even get the $100,000 property for $5. Right? You can't offer five two or 5% of market value. You gotta go higher in a in in a in in in the percentage of what you offer.

So on a $100 thousand dollar property, you gotta offer 25, 35% of market value. Mhmm. So the sliding scale is like the lower the property value, the lower the percentage you offer. Mhmm. So in a $10,000 property, you can offer like $1,500.

Right? On a $20,000 property, you can offer like $4. Mhmm. On a $30,000 property, you can offer like $10. Right?

Because now you're, you're starting to get to that 25. We used to, we like to say between 5 and 25 percent. But once you get over that 50 to $75,000 level, even if you got a little bit above the 25%, it's still fine. Mhmm. Because if I buy a $50,000 property for $15,000 and I sell it for 30, I'm still making good money.

Steve: Right. Alright. So. So how long are you holding on to those properties?

Jack: As little as possible. So this is another thing. We like as the little, ideally like like we do classic wholesaling really. Like we do, we actually sell our properties two ways. Classic wholesaling, meaning double closings.

Mhmm. Like simultaneous closings or assignments. Or if we can, and I'd like, we like to do that, my wife and I like to do this a lot, seller financing. Mhmm. And seller financing actually makes land cash flow.

It's another thing. And it makes land cash flow without having that kind of dilemma that, that you have in the housing world often. Let's say you have a $300,000 house with a $250,000 mortgage that costs you, what does that cost? $1,500 a month. Mhmm.

And you're renting this thing for $2,000 a month. Great. You're making $500 a month in net cash flow. The moment that tenant does a midnight move out or so, you're negative 1,500 on that thing. Right?

Because you still have to pay the mortgage. But in our case, you take a $30,000 property that you buy for four, if you can sell that thing with a $6,000 down payment, like 20% down, and a $500 a month payment, you have the same cash flow. Actually lower because you don't have to pay for insurance, like insurance if you have it is much much cheaper and so on. It's pure $500 in cash flow. And if that guy stops paying, it goes from 500 to zero, but never negative.

Steve: Right? How do you cash flow? I mean, mean, are you how are you how are you making money on the land as for cash flow?

Jack: Alright. How we're making money on the land on cash flow is, very simply by buying them at 10 or 20¢ on a dollar. Mhmm. When we sell it with seller financing, so installment sale, we often get

Steve: So you're borrowing at a lower cost and selling someone else at higher premium.

Jack: Well, we're actually not even borrowing. Okay. Because if you think about it, let's say the ideal scenario is, is the following. We've just done that like last year or several times. There's this property in California that we bought for 3,100 and $3,175 plus closing costs, let's call it 4,000.

So you bought this property for $4,000 So we put it under contract, right, with a four month closing. Mhmm. Because in our world, you don't have to close in seven days. Because there's no competition. Right?

Nobody there. They're they're not gonna get a letter from somebody else the next day. They're signing happily on a signing happily on a four month closing. Yeah. Or even six months closing.

It's no problem. So now I have four months to find a buyer. Now if it's a nice property, it's not gonna take four months. It's gonna take two weeks. So two weeks later, I find a buyer that's willing to buy this property and say it was worth 35,000.

Mhmm. So we discounted a little bit and we sold it to the guy for $31,000 and he gave us a $5,500 down payment. Right? So now, if he gives us a $5,500 down payment, it's a $5,000 plus a $500 fee. He, he assumes a loan of $26,000 But if you look at it, what did we get in versus what do we have to get out?

Mhmm. We have to, if we do, if we do this at the closing table with a title company, we, we can either give the title company $4,000 and then we get $6,000 back that same day. Mhmm. Or we can use a double closing process where the buyer six, dollars 5,500, not 6,000, dollars 5,500 are being used to close on the deal, make the entire transaction happen. So the title, the seller gets four, gets $3,100 the title company gets a grant, we get $5,500.

Sorry, we get $1,500. Yeah. $1,500 net. So now we've done a deal where we didn't have to borrow any money just because we got it so much below market value. We're selling it to him for 31 with a $26,000 loan and we had no money out of pocket.

Okay. Does Does that make sense?

Steve: Yeah. So the cash flow is you selling it to him. Yes. And he's making payments to you.

Jack: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

We become the bank. Exactly.

Steve: Exactly. Okay. That's how it works. Yes. Okay.

Jack: Now, and then in a case where it's not so ideal, like that deal where we sold for about for 8 and sold for $47,000 right now, that property we had bought for for, now we bought it for 8, but that was a seller financing deal. We only got $2,000 down. Mhmm. So now I'm negative six. Now I have the cash to be able to say, okay, here's $8,000 I buy it.

And then when I sell it I get $2,000 and now I get $600 a month. Mhmm. Or $5.95. So, almost $600 a month. So basically in a year and a half or a year and four months I have all my money back.

So I have a 100% return on my investment, off my investment in a matter of fifteen months. And which is better than putting the money in the bank. Yeah. And then for the next ten years, I'm getting about $7,200 a year, just cash flow. Just pure cash flow, pure profit because my money's back.

Steve: So how often in in land deals being that you're doing a seller carry, are you having to take it back?

Jack: That is also a function of how much you actually ask as a down payment. Now you can of course check their credit and those kind of things. We actually don't. Mhmm. We, we just plainly, derive it, at the, at the number of the down payment they're willing to do.

Mhmm. And we found that these deals that like our typical seller financing deal is in that like fifteen to thirty thousand dollars kind of range usually, in terms of 50 to 50, 15 to 50 kind of thousand dollar range. And as long as you get them to do like, at the very bare minimum a thousand dollar down payment, but ideally a little bit more like if it, if it goes into like the 10%, which at the 15 is $1,500 at obviously a 50, it's like $5,000 they're not walking away. The default rates is literally only in about the 5% rate, which is kind of comparable to actually a regular bank loan. Yeah.

It is. So it's it's not a high high foreclosure rate, but the only reality is like, if they, if they pay you for a year, $600 a month, you've gotten a down payment. You got another, all this money. If they foreclose, if you foreclose on that deal is financially speaking is the best thing that could happen.

Steve: Right.

Jack: Right? Because now you get to keep all the money. Foreclosure might cost a little time and money to do, but then you go sell it again. If the market has gone up since then, you sell it for more than you sell it the first time. Right.

Get another down payment, get now monthly payments, but that's not our game. We like our people to be happy. So if somebody stops paying, the first thing that we do is reach out Mhmm. And we see what can we do. Is that you have a hardship?

Do you need a lower payment? Can we do a loan modification? It's like all these things that people that the banks would do in 02/1011, we can do. Yeah. Cause we're the bank.

Steve: Right.

Jack: Right? And you can do because you're the bank.

Steve: Yeah. What is the biggest land amount they've done?

Jack: The biggest deal is one that we actually have on a contract right now. We spot this property for $92,000 We just put it under contract for $220,000 Wow.

Steve: So how did you find it? How did you move it?

Jack: Well, that actually is an infillot. So that actually funny enough that one came through the newspaper. I literally, I just happened to look through the newspaper. And since my eyes is always like sharpened to look for deals, it's like land in that area, seller willing, like motivated. So I called them and I figured out it was worth like 300 and the guys like we negotiated 92.

So that's, that is an exceptional deal though. But we have also gotten kind of like from a margin point of view, the best deal is, a property in Prescott, Arizona. Like beautiful property at the end of a road overlooking the entire kind of area there and with views all the way to Flagstaff. If you know where that is, I mean you know where that is, but I don't know if the audience knows where that is. And I bought this thing for 18 dollars $18.75 and we sold it for 81,000.

Wow. That was a nice deal.

Steve: Sounds like it. So, I don't want to go through all, obviously, your entire course, but like, I mean, what would be some actionable two or three things that someone is listening to the show could start with if they wanna take some action today?

Jack: Right. So, the best thing they could do is they could start thinking about land a different way. And, like, this is the, I mean, that's not an actual step, but it's something that most people think about land just like you have, which is like land, what is anyone gonna do with it? Now the truth is a lot of people want land. Like if you look at it, the, the, the path of growth land, the infilland is easy, right?

Because the the builders buy it. Some would buy it. So the land on the outskirts of town is, is the path of growth. So there's a lot of people who are getting nervous about the stock market, pulling money out of the stock market and wanna put it somewhere else. So if you see that the city, a city like Atlanta, a city like Denver, a city like, Miami, a city like Phoenix, they're constantly growing, right?

Mhmm. If you see a city like that and you can get a lot, three miles outside of the city borders kind of, or where the city ends, where the development ends. And you can get this thing today for $30,000 like as a buyer. They're jumping on that because if you in our marketing, we describe it, we tell them the city grows by 50,000 people a year. So it's only a matter of times until that is engulfed by, by a town and then it's worth 10 times as much.

Mhmm. So if you present it like that, make people understand that that boom, they're buying these properties like, like crazy. So, so instead of driving through the, to the rural areas and thinking, what is all this dirt? There's people that the third group, the recreational people, they love, I mean, there's dirt biking, right? In the Western United States, there's a lot of desert.

People love taking their RVs out there. Mhmm. And, and just throwing the ATV and just starting dirt biking, quarreling, all this kind of stuff, shooting out there. Yeah. And there's when I go into a room and I ask them, who would like to have a ranch here?

But half of the hands go up. So half of the population of The United States, and I've done it like a 100 times. Half of the, half the population in The United States apparently wouldn't mind having some kind of whole place to get away for the weekend. So, so thing is that desert out there, that land out there is actually attractive to a lot of people. And the problem is they can't afford it.

So therefore that seller financing or a lot of people can't afford it, but that seller financing option where you become the bank is a great way that you can make land affordable and you could cash cash flow for yourself without any tenants, toilets, and termites. Alright. But in terms of action steps, I mean, just go on, go on, go on, on Craigslist and go on their land and just see what people are offering here. I mean, there's literally some people, I mean, you, I don't think it's a scalable business to do this on Craigslist only, but there's nothing wrong to go on Craigslist and go see what people are selling there. And you'll find, you find a bunch of professional sellers, a few people that, that have really nice listings.

They're probably my students. But you can also find the mom and pop that just like sitting on a piece of land, they don't know what to do. It is like, we sold our bicycle in the garage on Craigslist. Why don't we put the piece of land on Craigslist? So you can get deals just off Craigslist.

Right? So get the deal, just make sure it's not junk.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Cause there is junk land in the country. So make sure like we do not deal with junk. So what's junk land? Well, junk land is is like the quarter acre three hours from the next city that is worth $500 Like, no. Why would I, why would I ever wanna touch this thing?

Like, if you're in the rural areas, people want 10 acres, 20 acres, 40 acres. They don't want a quarter acre.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: So we don't touch that. True junk land is like the swamp land. Right? True junk land is land that is like in a, in a ditch basically, right? Like in mountainous areas, land that is like you need mountain equipment to actually climb up and it's unbuildable, right?

That's junk land and, and that exists. And sometimes even in subdivisions, there's all nice lots and then one is like in a dry wash. Stay away from those. So we don't deal with junk. So be and, and, and also I mean there's some, there's a couple of areas, a few areas in the country where there's literally like 10,000 empty lots.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Nobody's building. There's no water. There's no electricity. And even though they're an acre to its size, they're only worth $2,000. So Yeah.

No. Stay away from those. Those are not the ones Those are the ones that people that don't don't get my course, that don't listen to me, they end up buying those and then they blame me for it. But in the very first three modules of our course, I go in detail about how to find the areas and how to find the kind of properties that will sell very quickly because that's the key piece, of course.

Steve: So, I was also reading up the forever cash philosophy. What is the forever cash philosophy?

Jack: So the forever cash philosophy. The forever cash philosophy is a philosophy that has brought my wife and I to be financially very, very comfortable and has really, and and and to financial freedom, basically. Mhmm. And because there's a difference between making money and generating wealth.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: And most people are not even aware that there's such a difference. So it's like the doctor that owns or or, like, or the the specialized physician that that makes a million dollars but spends 1.2. He has not master he has mastered the the signs of making money. He has not mastered the signs of creating wealth.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: So what we have we even wrote a book about it called Forever Cash. Mhmm. So what we learned is, like, we went into this land business. We flipped. We very quickly got out of debt.

We went from 0 to a million dollars in eighteen months. So very quickly out of debt, paid off student debt, paid off house debt, paid off car debt, paid off all this kind of stuff, paid off our house in, like, two years. And and then we were and then we built up this set of financing, and then we built it up very high. But then about seven, eight years, seven years later, we were started realizing that all these early loans were starting to be paid off. And we realized that if we ever wanna retire, we love this because it gives you stability.

Cash flow gives you stability. You can go travel around the world for a year and the cash flow keeps coming in. Mhmm. But if you travel around the world for ten years, the cash flow is gone. Yeah.

Alright? Because it starts coming down if you don't replenish it. So we started realizing that for wealth generation, you need to do more than just create cash flow and more more than just create deals. You need to roll the money that you make over into something that will then produce cash flow for life. Mhmm.

Like in a stock market, you can do dividend stock. Right? Dividend stock with blue chip company dividend it's not a very good cash flow, but at least it's cash flow. Yeah. So and it's not appreciation.

I know a guy that is worth $50,000,000 doesn't have any doesn't have a a dollar in passive cash flow in his life. It's all business cash flow. He owns art. He owns buildings. He He owns I mean not buildings.

He owns the houses around the world, but his own houses. Right? There's nobody paying him rent. He owns houses. He has a multimillion dollar art collection and things like that, but he's not he has no passive cash flow.

So he mastered the income and the wealth in terms of accumulation of things, so what I call the pile of money theory. Mhmm. When that's what financial planners, by the way, teach everyone, that's the pile of money theory. Like build enough pile of money in the stock market so that once you retire, you hopefully don't outlive it. Mhmm.

Right? That's the theory out there. My theory is like make money, pay down your debt, invest in yourself, and learn how money works, and then move that money into something that then produces lifetime cash flow. Yeah. So lifetime cash flow, private cash is the same thing.

And, so what we have done basically as we've built up this this this land flipping, up to literally tens of thousands of dollars a month in cash flow, we've taken some of that off the table. And when the market crashed in 2009, we came into the market and we just bought rental house after rental house after rental house after rental house with the cash that we had made over there while continuing to do our land flips. We have done them all along Yeah. And continue to do them. And then now, for the last few years, we've even also taken some of our money and started buying apartment complexes with it.

Because at the end of the day, that's something where we are a little more hands off. There's a management company on on-site managing and so on. But it's but the thing is you need your cash machine. Right? You need something that's your engine that produces cash, but then the goal is not to blow that cash.

The goal is to use that cash to build finance wealth forever. And that's philosophy that we we describe in the book. We could describe a process called the wealth wheel. Mhmm. Where you create income, you, you put the money off to the side, you only invest in yourself and put money aside, and then you invest in cash flow assets.

And those cash flow assets now spit out more cash that that you don't go and spend, but instead you put it right back into the account. And then your cash machine, your active income, your land flipping for that thing, produces more cash and you keep putting it in there. And soon enough, you have more and more money to buy more and more of these forever cash, as we call them assets, these passive cash cash flow sources. And and it becomes like a snowball that starts slower and slower, getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And soon enough, you have replaced your income with the passive cash flow, and you don't need an income.

It's like Kiyosaki with Robert Kiyosaki talked about. It's just our twist to it and our variation of it. And in essence, it's actually coming from Europe. It's actually the exact philosophy that the European aristocrats have used for thousands of years. Alright.

That's how they think. Like around my hometown in Germany, there's a little count and there's a castle and there's a thing and and the count has no more political clout, but he owns all the land. He owns all the rental properties. He lives in his castle and he owns, he owns properties. He lives in his castle and he owns, he owns businesses and things like that.

Then with the businesses, he buys more real estate and, and it's the exact same freaking model that the Aristocats have used forever. Just the average Joe out there, the average person doesn't know that. We're being taught just go consume, make money, consume, spend.

Steve: Don't know that, but don't even really have the opportunity to afford it because it's so freaking expensive in Europe.

Jack: True. I mean, the true, but but the principle is the same.

Steve: Principle is still the same. Yeah.

Jack: Principle is the same. You like now there's a, there's a movement in Germany that I, now that, that there's a whole bunch of people I'm connected with now. They're doing that, so they have understood it. They're just doing the same thing now with little apartments. Mhmm.

They can't buy a big car, they can't afford being buying a big apartment complex, and there's not that many over there, it's a little different, but they buy single condos. They buy like, there's one guy who bought like 13 condos this year, right? Or last year. And so he builds this passive cash flow that way. It's the same thing.

He has his income producing business over here, and then the money gets pushed over into cash flow creating pieces. And he has this goal is number 50. When he has 50 of them, he's financially free.

Steve: That's awesome. So how are you today? Alright, you got you and your wife and you guys have other things going on.

Jack: Right.

Steve: It's not just the land. So who is helping you find the land? How are you guys finding the land? You know, who's meeting with the homeowner or not the owner, landowners? Like how does that all operation work?

Jack: I love the question. Can I ask her to answer the last one first? Sure. Who is meeting with the landowners? Nobody.

And that's the nice part. Nobody. Nobody's meeting with the owners. Nobody's meeting with the buyers. It all happens to be at direct mail, telephone and online.

Steve: Okay.

Jack: That's why literally I'm working from home. We virtualized our entire office. We don't even have an office. We have a little one of these Regus office spaces. We have a little office suite where we have some files in there and my assistant goes there to work.

But other than that, there's there's nothing. Mhmm. And, and we have people all over the country doing work. So so how do we do that? So we are now we do things because we have the financial ability.

We're blessed with the success of our business to have the financial ability to just buy these lots. The way we do it is that we have buying and selling seasons. So right now we're in a selling season. We're just selling the heck out of properties. Our goal is to sell 180 properties in the next six months.

And then once those six months are over and we sold those 180 properties, or the majority of them, then we're gonna turn the ship around and everyone in our team will help us buy properties. Interesting. So our team basically puts two hats on, but our our students usually, they do it, more like that they buy and sell in parallel. Mhmm. Right?

Because most of the students don't sit on larger piles of cash or they build it up over time. And once they build it up, then they might switch to our model. Their cycle is a little bit smaller. The cycle is smaller. Shorter.

Exactly. So we have one and a half people that are land sales people. So one does a part time, one full time. We have a person that helps with the, with the analysis of these properties because when they, when the deals come in, when we send out letters, here's the process just in a few words. We identify a county that we want to go after.

Let's say a county just outside of a bigger city. We get a list, or we get a list from the county or from a list service. We filter it down based on some criteria. We send out some letters. And let's say you send out a test, testing of 500 letters.

We typically get about a four to 15% response rate on these letters.

Steve: Really?

Jack: Wow. That's really cool. Way higher than in the land, in the house side. Another reason why land is better. Yeah.

We're getting a huge response rate. Typically we have a call center. We use a call center that, that that we've filled a relationship with over time, that now lots of our students are using too. And they take the phone calls. We develop the software that we make available for students that are soft, that the students can, that the, that the call center can pluck the leads right into the software.

So we build an integration there, right into the software. So they wake up in the morning, they have 10 more people that called. They need to then do a little bit deal analysis. So analyze what the property is worth and so on, but just ballpark because we're making 10¢ on a cent, 10¢ on a dollar offer. It's okay if to be a little bit off.

Right. And, and then we make these offers. And then once we have the offers accepted, we go sell the property. Right? That's it.

In a nutshell, that's it. So of course there's some more steps behind the thing and yes, there's some work involved. So I'm different than all the other gurus. I'm not telling you there's no work, but, but in our team, we have a mailing house that sends out the letters. So I, I, I tell my team which counties we're going to go for.

Then we have access to that. We go get the list from a county. And then we have a guy somewhere in The Philippines or so that filters that list and, and scrubs that list for us in the way we want to. Then we go, use the mailing house to send out the letters. Lots of our students use that same mailing house too.

They have the nice part is that they have a minimum of only 50 letters.

Steve: Wow. That's really low.

Jack: Yeah, exactly. Usually they have like 10,000 or something like that. Yeah. This is one they're really customized. Of course, if you send 50, it's a little more expensive.

Natural. But it's starting at 700, it really drops massively. So we said, take like a 2,000 letters, send them out. The mail at the call center takes the calls, drops them to our system. Then we have somebody in our team full full time that goes in and analyzes this deals and gets like, puts in all the data pieces of what they think it's worth.

Like links to the county and thing and, links to the, to the property and comparables and stuff like that. And then I look at it. That's the piece that to this day I do myself. I look at it and if I'm already familiar with the area, making offers is like very simple. Because you just, you know, Oh, this is the XYZ subdivision.

I know they're worth $20. I know they're getting a $3,000 offer. Done. Right? So you go like 3,000, 3,000, 3,000, 3,000.

Make the offers, move on. And then, and then once that is done, another team member of us goes, prints out, produces the offers, which our software literally, you press a button and the offers come right out. They mail automatic mail merchant and everything. The offers come out and they mail them out and then we wait. Because we don't do this on the phone.

We don't do this thing. There's no urgency. So if somebody calls, like like in a house, I always like to say that in the house world, if somebody, somebody calls you today and says like, I want to sell you the house, you probably would almost have to get up and run out of the door here. And be

Steve: there five minutes.

Jack: And be there five minutes.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: We don't talk to our sellers. We only make offers once a week. And because we know that in the meantime, nobody else is gonna the chance of that somebody else is going to make them an offer in that same time is almost zero.

Steve: So you're mailing offers. You're not even calling to present. No, I'm calling.

Jack: You're sending them letters. So I'm giving them ten days to accept the offer because it takes like three, four days to get there. They might have to discuss it with the kids. So it's all a no pressure, low pressure thing. And then we, they send them back and, usually for one, for one, between every 20 to 35 kind of offers that we send out, we get a deal accepted.

But again, if you think about it, you send a thousand offer a thousand letters, you might get a 100 phone calls. There should be already three to four deals in there on average. Wow. Right? So, so you get those accepted and then you go and again, on average, sometimes you might send out 3,000 and you get nothing.

And then the next thousand, there's 10 deals.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: And sometimes in the first 20, there's a deal. So it's the average. But if your average is over a large number, our typical student gets a deal for every three to 500 letters they send out. So a thousand letters has like two to three, two to three deals in there.

Steve: So you got it tied up?

Jack: You got it tied up and then you go put it out online and we use Facebook. We Facebook Marketplace right now. It's like crazy.

Steve: Really?

Jack: Like one of our students right now, we have, we just put a property of properties in there. My, my land sales person, she can't even, she can't, she's like, Oh my God, I'm getting so many, so many, inquiries here. So like one guy just two days ago, he posted that he's bought a property for 4,000, sold it for 25,000. He says in one day he had 150 inquiries from Facebook Marketplace.

Steve: Wow.

Jack: And, and several people wanting to make offers on the deal. And so that's the thing. I mean, can you buy a property that sits on a market for a year? Yes. But again, the first three modules of the course that we do, I'll tell you how to not do that, how to stay away from those.

Steve: Interesting. And one other thing, if he's got 150 people, he knows which subdivision to target again.

Jack: Exactly. Now what is exactly what he's gonna do is he's gonna go in and find 10 more properties there. Because if a property in that area, can he also, can he afford to pay more for these properties now? Yeah. Absolutely.

Because he already get nine more people that, that wanted to offer 22 or 23,000 then he bought it for four. Can he, he can make $10,000 offers now and sell them for 22. Still make $12 a piece. Yeah, exactly.

Steve: Very fascinating. And then so I know that you're licensed. Do you do anything with your license?

Jack: No. I I keep my license active because it was too much work to, to to get it. I wanna don't wanna lose it. But, when I bought my current house, I used my license Alright. So I represented myself, therefore I got the 3% commission or actually we took it off the price.

I got the price for 3% less. Right. When, because of it, I have access to the MLS. Because of it, I have access to some other tools and things like that. But we don't.

What we do though, and that's an important thing when we send out our letters, we do write on the bottom of our letters that one of the principals of the company is a licensed real estate agent in our, in our has a licensed real estate, real estate license in the state of Arizona, but we're buying on our own behalf. Because by law you have to disclose it, the very first contact, and we do that and nobody ever has asked about it. Nobody even cares. Because Cause what we're targeting is not little grandma who we're stealing the property from. What we're targeting is somebody who just doesn't want the property anymore.

Their lifelines have changed. They inherited it. They don't care about it. And it's, and the nice part is that because it's land, it is sucking money out of their pocket. Right.

And they just don't like that. So they're willing to just give it cheaper than houses just to stop that. At the same time, there's millions of people wanting to buy land, want to have a ranch, want to have a farm, want to have a place to get away, or want to have a place that the city grows into or wanna have an infillot.

Steve: Yeah. So, I think I heard you say 180 deals in six months. That's the that's the goal.

Jack: Mhmm.

Steve: So then you're looking almost a deal a day is your goal per year.

Jack: Yes. Now some some of these are are groupings of deals where we sell them like six or 10 in a piece because there's some cheaper ones that's like we just sold like 11 of them. That's one of sometimes when you buy land, you go after this one property that somebody has is worth $40. And when they call you, they tell you, yeah, I got these other 10 properties over here. Would you take them off my hands too?

And you look at them and they're worth like nothing. They were like a thousand dollars each. So he's like, okay, I'll give you another thousand bucks for all 10 of them. And they're like, okay, deal. So you get them all.

So you sell the $40,000 one for $35,000 or for there to make like $20 on it. And what do you do with those little ones? So the little ones they include it in those. So we have like probably thirty, forty of them are like those cheaper ones. And we'll just put them on eBay for like a $500 closing fee and start the bidding at a buck.

And if they end up selling at $200 plus a $500 closing fee, we sell them for $700. But they didn't cost us anything. Right. So we just sell them. But the majority is like in this $10,000 to $50,000 $10,000 to $100,000 range.

It's, yeah. So my goal is $180,000 in six months. It might take us a little longer, but I think think we can sell probably a 100 in the first, at least a 100 comfortably in the first hundred days. And again, some of them are packages of five or six. So if you look at it, how many actual sales that we have to do, it really comes only down to probably about 60 to 80 sales.

Only. Yeah. But I mean, it's, it's, it's like when, if you would have been at our live event last week, there's like people like, ah, what the live event was this eighteenth to the January 20. And in the January, nothing happens. Everyone is still kind of of overcoming the, the, the, the, the hangover from, from New Year's and so on.

But basically in the two weeks between then, from the, the ten days, from the seventh to the, like the eighteenth, eleven days, there's people in the room that had sold four properties already. Right? And, so it's not that hard to sell them. And we have some offers, on the table right now from, from people. So is this a stretch?

Yeah. But I also have full time people on there that are putting properties out there. So the average student probably won't sell a 100 and half a year, but one of our coaches is doing 170 deals a year alone with his wife and one virtual assistant. Wow. So you can do higher volume.

Steve: What markets are you in right now? So

Jack: I am in quite a few markets, but the markets that I'm most comfortable with and that I go mostly back to is Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida. And yeah, I would think those are my four, four markets that I'm personally the most. But only because, Arizona, obviously because back in the days when we started, we actually, thought we had to go see the properties. So every weekend after coming back, after traveling for my job, I would come back like Friday afternoon. My wife would pick me up in the airport.

We would literally just go, drive all the way up to Northern Arizona, go look at property or sleep somewhere there, get there at night, sleep in a hotel, get ready next day, all Saturday, all Sunday, look at properties, come back down Sunday night, Monday I would fly back out. And we did that for like weeks and weeks. But, but because of that, we started in Arizona. And because of that, we expanded to, to Southern California because we could still drive there in a five hour drive. Mhmm.

And then we expanded a little bit to New Mexico because fly we could drive there too, even though there's a lot of worthless land in New Mexico. And, so, so then, but then one thing happened one time. We picked up 25, 21. It was 25, but four were lost already to tax sales. So we picked up 21 properties from one seller for like $3, all of them.

They owed another $10,000 in back taxes. So then we went and paid them the $3 and then we sold two of them for $10. So we had our back, paid the back taxes and now we own 19 properties for Clear. However, these properties were in Indiana, in Florida, in Texas, in, in Hawaii, in California, in Colorado, and in some of these places. And, and just it happened where they were in those counties.

Some of them were not worth much, but the properties in Hawaii sold very well. The property in Colorado sold very well. The property in California sold very well. The property in Florida sold very well. And they were right in areas where there's ton more properties like that.

Yeah. So we just basically said, we sold everything. And those those five areas in the in the moment had had really good demand. So we went back to those areas and those became kind of our home areas and we never really had to had to go beyond those. Having said that, now not everyone's listening.

Please go go to those same counties, same states. Having said that, we have students doing exceptionally well right now in many parts of Georgia. In many parts of South Carolina, North Carolina. Many parts of Tennessee. In many parts of, of Washington, Oregon, of, basically entire West Coast.

Yeah. Like, one one of our guys, he's doing lots of deals in Arkansas. So it really doesn't matter. There's even guys in there's one guy who does over a 100 deals in in in in, West Virginia every year. Virginia and West Virginia.

So, and so it there's guys in the Midwest. Even though the Midwest tendency has a lot more farmland, so farmland, usually, they don't give you farmland for 10¢ on a dollar. So you gotta pick the pockets in those states where there's more like rural land generally or or the outskirts of town again. Mhmm. And then you can still get good deals.

And again, there's people all over the country doing deals. But the nice part is, it doesn't matter where you are. We actually have a growing number of students right now from Germany. They actually they they they I've been interviewed in, like, five podcasts in Germany. Mhmm.

And we're getting, like, probably five new students a month coming from Germany, and that's successfully doing it from Germany in The United States without ever having been in The United States. So it goes you can virtualize it all. Right? You can have the mailing house send out the letters. You can have the call center take the phone calls.

You can send the letters out, the offers out electronically by email or with the mailing house again. You can have a virtual phone number, for any kind of follow-up things that you need to talk to. You need to speak English. Right? Mhmm.

But other than that, you use a title company and you use online sources like Facebook, like, Zillow, like, Craigslist to go sell these properties. You can do that from anywhere in

Steve: the world. It's basically got a business in a box.

Jack: You got a business you got a virtual business that you can apply from anywhere in the world. I mean, so yes. So it is

Steve: So to do what you're doing as far as monthly marketing, like, what do you have to spend in monthly marketing to do the kind of numbers you've done?

Jack: Not very much because Facebook is free, Craigslist is free, and Zillow is free. Mhmm. So what you there are some sources that you can use that you pay for. So you can pay for something like landwatch.com. Mhmm.

And it's not necessarily cheap. They're they racked up their prices quite a bit. They yanked up their prices quite a bit. But, you can pay for, like, a couple of $100 a month. You can actually be on the front page of that county.

And that's where you wanna be or of that state. Mhmm. Because LandWatch has like 300,000 pieces of land on their website. Mhmm. You're gonna get lost in there.

And they used to be really cheap. Now you pay a lot. So if you're already paying, pay a little more to be in a prime position on that website.

Steve: Alright.

Jack: Alright. You can do banner advertising. You can do pay per click advertising, but don't do much high prices to do like, we have some very specific ads running that actually include even the name of the subdivision the property is in. So we're only paying, like, probably $3 a month for this ad because nobody clicks on it. Mhmm.

But the thing is, if 10 people click on it a month, it's very, very specific advertising. Only somebody is going to even see that ad if they're looking for, let's say, Hidden Valley Estates subdivision. They're looking for Hidden Valley Estates Montana or so or whatever, Colorado, then our ad is gonna come up, and they're like, well, this is exactly what I want. They're gonna click on it, but now I'm happy to spend that. So it doesn't doesn't cost any money.

It doesn't cost much money. I mean, I think marketing might cost if you really go full out, $500 a month, and that's the most.

Steve: Wow.

Jack: Now selling marketing. Right? Advertising, like, the the the letters cost a little bit. Mhmm. But again, even there, we don't have send tens of thousands.

Like, one of our students right now that is actually part of our, now part become part of our mentors. Mhmm. He's he he started out with a 100 letters a week that he folded and stuffed on his kitchen table. So he bought the envelopes, he bought the letters. He bought a little printer, and he put the 50 something cent cent stamp on.

So for 60¢, he sends out a $100. So so $60 a week. And he was able with that to do, like, several Wow. What about overhead?

Steve: I mean, running an operation?

Jack: Yes. So that can add up to a little bit, but not much. Again, depending on volume, you can take your own phone calls. I would say, like, there's this there's this, this this range. You can go all over here and do everything yourself and then you have almost no cost.

Or you can go over here and outsource it all and that comes of course with a cost. So everyone can really you can choose where you wanna be in that kind of spectrum based on two factors, time and money. Right? If you have more time than you have money, go over here, do it yourself. If you have money, but you don't have necessarily, spend the time, then go over here.

So if you fully outsource everything, you might spend, and let's say you spend like a couple thousand letters a month. You end up applying the cost of the, the letters cost you perhaps a thousand dollars in a month. But then you should also be three to 500 letters a deal. Right? On average, it should be five deal four to five deals in it, or let's say five deals in this in this thing.

Alright. So if you do five deals at the minimum profit of minimum $5, I mean, you you make $25 a month and you're spending a thousand on letters. You might then spend perhaps 500 on a ca on a mailing house and you might spend our software. You can buy a software has a price. Yeah.

You can, you can subscribe to it annually or monthly. So it might cost a little bit, but let's say for a $102,000 a month, you have all your things included. Now if you do everything yourself and you only send a 100 letters a week, you have $200 in mailing costs. You might have a $20 phone, phone number that you need to use, like some bumper number or, or Google Voice for that matter for free. So you have $200 in mailing costs and the rest is, is you.

So therefore, very little cost. So between $200 and $2,000 a month, depending how much volume you do and how much you outsource.

Steve: What about you? Like, what are you spending in monthly overhead?

Jack: Well, when we go out and do marketing, I mean we have full time employees too, but our employees, they're also, I don't even want to call them priests. They're team members. They're like, we love them. They do additional things like they, like the the like the the person running the my person is like a 100% the sales lay, the lady that sells the land. She's also managing the property managers for all our rental houses.

Mhmm. Alright. So she's, she's kind of a she pays for her, she pays for her own salary really by making sure that the property managers of the rental houses don't screw us. Yeah. Right?

So, and, because these guys, they always like to send you a $6,000 bill to repair a house when a handyman can do it for 2,500. Mhmm. So So she goes out, finds the handyman and so on.

Steve: It's like an accountant.

Jack: Well more like a project manager.

Steve: I mean like where they pay for themselves.

Jack: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right.

Yes. Exactly. And, so having said that, when we go out, when we go out on a buying spree, we might send out 10,000 letters, for two months. With 20,000 letters or for three months. So with 30,000 letters, we should be basically buying a 100 properties.

Steve: Wow.

Jack: And, and perhaps it's perhaps a little less, perhaps a little more since we're going for the higher end, for higher priced properties right now, we might send out 15,000 letters each, each month to only get 20 properties in that month. Right? So, but, so then it's seven fifty or a thousand letters. So, so because if you go up to like in the forty, fifty plus kind of range, you, you have to send out more letters to get a deal because obviously there's less people willing to let them go for almost nothing. But you still, it's still, it's probably below a thousand letters a deal for, to get a deal where you make $30 or $40.

So, so we send out 15,000 letters. We spent basically cost us about $10 or less than $10, like $8,000 to do this. We might do this for three months and then we stop. Because by that, by the time we've done that, we have now so much influx that we're really busy just making offers and getting deals done. And then we turn around and we go sell them.

Right. And then the selling, selling, we might pay in advertising on LandWatch and we might, and, and so on. So, so then while, while these phone calls come in, our call center bill obviously goes higher. But, but then it stops again because we're doing this buying spree, selling spree.

Steve: Right. Right. What is your superpower?

Jack: I think my superpower is to see how you can make deals happen. Like quite a bit time. I spent quite a bit of time talking to our students and like for example, sometimes we offer our students when they get our course, they get a one hour one on one consultation with me. And I always tell them, don't waste it right at the beginning. Get it when you're in the middle of a deal and you don't know how to make money on that deal.

Because I've, I've, I've had conversations that ended up people making, making people $25, a $100, things like that. Things like that on their deals because of just a different way that they didn't see how to make that deal happen. Mhmm. But someone was about to give up the deal. It's like, no, no, no.

You need a money partner. So I put them together with somebody else that can put up the money for the deal and they may end up making $65,000 on the deal. And so I'm really good at looking at that. I think at creativity of finding a way to make things happen.

Steve: Yeah. Awesome. Well, that's the most valuable skill, I think, of all the skills. What is your favorite best or most interesting failure?

Jack: Favorite most interesting failure. That's probably the first deal that we didn't do. Mhmm. Which before we went into the land area, we went into the wholesale houses. And we got, and you know here in Phoenix, there's, the there's the Garfield District.

Mhmm. And it's coming up now a little bit because I just read that the artists are moving in, which means that ten years from now, it's gonna be hip. Mhmm. But back then, there was no artist there. That was just like, you did not go into the art Garfield industry Garfield District after the sunset.

Mhmm. Well, I didn't know. I had no no about real estate. I mean, I didn't even know the terminology of it. So we got, we found this deal.

We drove around neighborhoods in this boarded up deal. We found out the guy's address. We can send him a letter. He got a deal, and we offered him $45,000 for the property. He accepted it.

And then we put it on the market and, and 28 people called us. And today it's very, very clear why nobody bought it of those 28 people. It's because it was a bunch of garbage, these properties. I mean, it was Adobe build, foundation issues, roof issues. You really, the, it needed to completely be, I mean, demolished, rebuilt, really.

That's the only thing you can do on those things. And electrical was 1940s. I mean, nothing had been upgraded, but I wasn't able to see it back then because I had no knowledge. Yeah. That was the nice part about switching to land.

You don't really need any knowledge because I mean, you're not even gonna see it. It's a piece of dirt that you get a 10¢ on a dollar and you flip it and make money. Yeah. But we freaked out, we backed out the deal and, and while it didn't aftermath, it it saved us a ton of money by doing that because we would have lost our shirt. Mhmm.

It was still a failure. I mean, we still were deflated by it and we still were like, crap, this is didn't work. And this is real estate stuff. I said, are we are we cut out for that? Is that the right thing?

So Mhmm. So, but other than that, we really haven't haven't lost money on deals. I mean, the the number of deals that we have lost in in on land deals, you can probably count them up on one hand. And they're mostly like little things that where we didn't do our research properly. We didn't follow our own steps.

Like we we started believing our own press releases. We thought of thinking we're better than we were.

Steve: And it happens to all of us. Yeah. So what message would you want to leave the guests with?

Jack: Well, the message I wanna leave is perhaps to to start with something that they're really that they're comfortable, that they can, that they can master by just stretching a little bit. Mhmm. Right? If I would have come across an apartment complex still sixteen years ago, I would have been screaming the other way and running, running the other way screaming. Because I didn't understand the complexities of it.

Yeah. But as I, as we'd done that first land deal, my confidence grew up. Right? And as we've done more land deals, my confidence grew more and grew more. My knowledge grew more.

My, my capabilities grew more. My my understanding grew more. And therefore, I was able to tackle more complex things easier over time. And we started buying houses. And we started buying apartment complexes.

Right? And it's not a big deal now anymore. Yeah. But, it's still a lot of work, but it's not a big deal. So we, so if somebody is out there as a frustrated house flipper, not really knowing what to do because a lot of like, there's a guy, a frustrated house flipper had came to our live event last week, two weeks ago.

And he was, and he literally had spent, had sent 15,000 mail pieces and he hadn't gotten a house deal because there's so much competition.

Steve: Oh yeah.

Jack: He came over to us and within ninety days he has 40 deals done. Four zero. Right? So, so that's the thing. He's like, there's a lot of, if you're frustrated, if you're hitting your head against something, look up and see what else is around, what else is out there.

And then start with something that, you know, you can handle, whether it's less complexities around or whatever, whatever your level is. If you're already sophisticated, then go do apartment deals, do those things. But, if let's start where your comfort level is, where you can grasp it, where you can get your arms around it, do some deals, and then tackle all the complex things that you want to do.

Steve: That's awesome. I think that's a great message. So if someone wants to get a hold of you, how would they do that?

Jack: Well, you can go to our website, landprofitgenerator.com. Or you can go, can I join the, share the Facebook group name? Yes, please. Please do. Again, the Facebook group is called, Forever Cash.

Forever Cash, and I think then we have like a Land for Pennies on there. It has like a double name right now because we're kind of tweaking the brand a little bit and changing it. So, it has like a really long name. But, if you look at Forever Cash or Land for Pennies or Land profit generator, one of the three terms, you'll find it. Right here on Facebook, it'll pop up.

You have to apply for it, it's a close group. Answer a couple of questions. Just see you're not spamming us and things like that. But it's truly a group for for for our students helping each other. Yeah.

And then you can see for yourself if I'm one of these gurus or if I'm or if this what I said earlier is true, that there's lots and lots of success right now happening.

Steve: Awesome. Awesome. Alright, guys. And so, I wanna offer something, interesting for you guys. So, if you guys are in the Phoenix market and you guys need help getting ARV or closing your deals, please reach out to me on Instagram.

You know, as as a service that we wanna offer to some of you guys. And if you want a copy of our script or our assignment contracts, please opt in at realestatedisruptors.com. And join us back here next week. We got Ryan Harper and Daniel Chad Moore flying in from Texas. So that's Wednesday at two.

And then on Thursday, afternoon at 04:30 at Dave and Buster's in Tempe, we're gonna be doing a meetup. So if you guys are in the Phoenix market, I think that'd be a special treat. And food and drinks are paid for, so there's really no reason not to come. And then lastly, if you guys haven't signed up for WeLive yet, WeLive 2019, I'm gonna be there. So if you guys are are on the fence, definitely sign up, for Max Maxwell's event.

And if you do like the show, please share this up episode right now because a rising tide does lift all boats. Thank you guys for watching, and thank you. This was Thank

Jack: you very much.

Steve: Awesome. It was a great education.

Jack: I appreciate it.