Passive Income of $70,000 per Month

Jack Bosch: Not Steve trains. Jump on the Steve train. We real estate disruptors.

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we got Jack Bosch with Land Profit Generator. And Jack is another local expert in the Phoenix community, but he does do deals all over the country. And today, we're gonna be talking about how to do over $70,000 a month in passive income.

Now I am on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, you'll become one. And if you've been paying attention to some of the stuff we put we've been putting out there, you'll know that we're launching something big a week from today. So if you want lifetime access to what we're launching, I would suggest you go to salesdisruptors.com for now.

Our 50% off promotion 50% off promotion ends on May 14. And if you get value out of the show, please hit that subscribe button right now, please. We wanna help as many people as possible, so that way we can all grow together. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Jack to answer. You ready?

Jack: I'm ready.

Steve: Alright. Cool. It's been I was looking at this four years. Oh, wow. This This is the last time you're on the show.

So last week marked the fifth year that we've been doing this show. So you came around

Jack: Year one. Year one. Yeah. Wow.

Steve: It's been hosting quite some time.

Jack: What an evolution too. You had, like, some rented space in there with, like, in this black kind of office. Now look at that. We got the fancy office, the fancy studio. Congratulations.

Steve: Thank you. Thank you very much. So question we like we always like to start off with is what was your life like right before real estate?

Jack: What was my life like before real estate? I had a job at a software implementation console software company and in their implementation branch. I was traveling 100% of the time, Monday to Friday. I or sometimes even the weekends. I was working.

We we used to joke that by Wednesday night, we had forty hours, And I hated every part of it.

Steve: Sounds like a dark joke.

Jack: Yeah. Well, maybe we work from about nine in the morning till about 10:11 o'clock at night. And so that's fourteen hours. And, fourteen by by day three, you're at the thirty six kind of hours, sometimes midnight. And so by Wednesday, Thursday, we had the forty hours.

By Friday, we're, like, at sixty hours. And and, and I hated it. I had two weeks vacation, 100% traveled, meaning that, I was just a newly well, I was, had this girlfriend Mhmm. And then became my fiance. Now she's and then I married her, and and now we're married twenty two years, Michelle.

Obviously, you know her. And we love being hanging out together, and, and we couldn't. I realized, like, I was gone all the time. I was miserable. She was miserable.

And it was just not a a a kind of environment we wanted to be in.

Steve: Gotcha. So, you know, you talk about you came from Germany.

Jack: Mhmm.

Steve: What was it that brought you, from Germany to to The United States?

Jack: So I was a college student, and I love the college life. I enjoyed that quite a bit longer than I probably should have. But, in Germany also, the system back in the days was different. It it took about five years five to six years to graduate from a full basically, with the equivalent of a master's here. And, and I was very close to that.

I had two more huge amount huge, really difficult exams in front of me. Then I realized that if I that there wasn't there's a way out of those. So, you know, as entrepreneurs, we're kind of like, I didn't know I was an entrepreneur at that time. Now I know, of course, Lee. But, I was trying to figure out a way out of those out of those two exams.

Mhmm. And I realized that they were that this university had exchange programs with, with different countries, including The United States. Mhmm. And so I applied for it. I got accepted.

And I the plan was to spend ten months, two semesters in The US, take a bunch of classes that would give me credit for those same for those stupid exams over there. At the same time, improve my English and as a side effect, I would get an American MBA because I was already studying business. So I got, credit over there too. So it was kind of like three things in one. I was like, okay.

Let's do that. Never did I count I had never been to The US. Never really had a desire to be in US. Didn't know why not. Not not anything.

I I didn't have anything against The US. Mhmm. I just I was more like a European traveler. Right? I went to the beaches of this of Europe and so on.

And then I went to The US and I fell in love with The US. And then also a few weeks into being here, I met this young lady who is now my wife of twenty two years. Mhmm. And that changed everything. So then we just never came back.

Steve: Gotcha. So you got your MBA Mhmm. Western Illinois University. Yes. Right?

Yes.

Jack: You don't have to put

Steve: your I mean, it No.

Jack: Let me finish. No. I mean, it's it's a solid. It's a good school. It's an accredited school.

I did not particularly enjoy my time there other than, of course, having met Michelle. So I I we always joke because, like, there was a reason why I went to the middle of the cornfields, five hours away from Chicago, and and to I I'm from a small town in Germany. I never wanted to ever live in a small town again. And now there we go. Land in Macomb, Illinois is like, this is like my hometown all over just in American.

Mhmm. Like, it's like literally reminded me of Back to the Future, like the square and the tour and the courthouse in the middle and the the clock on top, identical.

Steve: Really?

Jack: And, so I was like, I never wanna be there ever again, and now we're stuck there for a year. But, it's a good school. I mean, I I learned a lot. I I I Oh,

Steve: I guess what I want to ask you is

Jack: how meant to be there.

Steve: How much did that MBA help you in this business journey?

Jack: So I'm I I love bashing colleges now. I love talking about that really, there's no reason for in today's world, if you wanna be an entrepreneur, there's no reason to go to college. Mhmm. The same time that's every time I say that, a part of me feels like that is the truth and a part of me feels like this is not a 100% the truth because you do learn a lot of things in college. Yeah.

You do learn how to approach problems. You have to do a lot of self sufficient project work and figure things out and do presentations and things like that, particularly in American colleges. Germany is much more academic if just like study something, read something, memorize it, produce it. Right? Mhmm.

Much more school kind of, like, middle school level. Even though it's very, very hard and the academic standards are very, very high, US is much more hands on than you. Actually, I think you walk away with some life skills.

Steve: Alright. So I have

Jack: to ask you. Definitely some application to it. And then studying business in particularly, there is definitely benefits to learning things like accounting. Mhmm. Like, I had accounting classes.

So it's beneficial to walk into to start a business and at least on a fundamental basis understand what's the difference between an asset and a liability. What's the difference between a p and l, a cash flow statement, and a and a balance sheet and and those kind of things. But again, do you have to go for four year, in my case, a seven year degree to to actually because I went to college for seven years. That that's a different story. I like to party, back then.

Now I'm 52. I don't party anymore. I go to sleep at 9PM. But, but do you have to go for a four year degree to learn that? No.

Nowadays, there's iTunes U. There is, podcasts. There is there's everything is at your fingertips. You you can learn that same thing from some of the top institutions in a three week audio course. Well, you

Steve: can look at it. Like, I think a lot of the Stanford and Harvard class are available for free online.

Jack: Exactly.

Steve: Right? Like, someone's paying 40,000 Yeah. A semester.

Jack: Yeah. You don't get the degree, but you get the knowledge. You don't have to get the network either, which I I told my daughter. My daughter is 15 right now. She's graduating from, she's she's a freshman in high school, right now.

I told her, you're going to college. And she wants to go to to an Ivy League school, but I made it very clear. Sofia, you're going to college for two reasons. One, network. Number two, to have fun.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Because you're gonna learn a bunch of stuff anyway. Right? You know, she's not gonna suck. She's she's a great student. She's an all all a's, all advanced honor kind of classes, but she's gonna be naturally learning a bunch of stuff.

But you really you're not going to learn a profession. You're not going to learn the skills to then become an entrepreneur. You learn you go to to Harvard or anything if he makes it there or somebody one of these Ivy League schools or any school. You learn there you go there, number one, for for to have fun. And number two, to to really learn, network with people.

Steve: What if she says

Jack: stay with us.

Steve: What if she says, dad, I don't wanna go to go to college?

Jack: Totally fine with me too.

Steve: Totally fine with you too.

Jack: 100%. 100%. As a matter of fact, she's in our land flipping coaching program right now. Last night, we sent I helped her send out their first letters to get, to get leads, to to find some land. So Yeah.

She she wants to make 6 figures as a as a, sophomore in high school. Yeah. So there's a good chance she actually might not go to college because if she makes, whatever, few $100,000 by senior or, like, as a sophomore, junior, senior, why in the world would she go to college and Yeah. If she already makes more than than some of the top graduates on the top schools.

Steve: Or the professors.

Jack: For sure, the professors. Yeah.

Steve: So my daughter asked me yesterday over dinner. He's like, dad, can I start an online business? Like, yeah. Yes. You can.

What kind of question is this? Right? And she's 12.

Jack: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? But I think, you know, we're gonna have some tough conversations, when she's 18 and has to decide which college she wants to go to. And I'm kinda like you. I went to school. I got my master's degree.

I do not look as fondly upon college as I did when I went to college. So that'll be interesting. So alright. That was your life before real estate. Why did you get into real estate?

Jack: We developed over time a decision filter. Again, analytical, German. Michelle is just as analytical as I am. We basically said, like, hey. Let's not jump into just the first thing that comes our way.

Let's let's look at our situation that we are in. And the situation that we were in back then was we were immigrants. We work on a we were on an h one b visa, and an h one b visa is a visa that's tied to a company. So you cannot just quit. If you quit, you lose your, you'll use your work visa.

So then you have sixty days to either find another job or leave the country. So number one and my drop was a 100% travel. So I was like, let's look for something that we can do part time because I couldn't quit. Number two, that I can that that I that is something that I don't have to physically supervise every day. Because you can do a part time business running a gym at night or working at a gym or a second job or something.

You work in an office all day long, you get in the car and you go to your second nighttime job or something. Well, that wasn't an option because that was four weeks here, six weeks over there, three months over there, two weeks over there. There's no way that you can do anything for

Steve: restrictions with the travel.

Jack: Yeah. There was there was travelers. There's exactly. Huge restrictions are on it. So it needed to be something that that can be done 100% virtual.

Like, we thought about first, initially, we thought about the ideas, like, and to this day, I think it's still a good idea. We could just came from back from Europe, and, man, Europe have such amazing bread. Right? The bread is just out of his world, the sweets, the thing, the pastries, everything. I still to this day haven't found many places in The US that offer that same quality of of bread.

Now the coffee is there yet. Like, thirty years ago, twenty five years ago, coffee was crappy most everywhere. So like like dirty water. Right? Hot dirty water.

Now with Starbucks and things, you get amazing coffee everywhere. Mhmm. And with the second tier, with all these local kind of coffee, the coffee roasteries and so on, there's amazing coffee in The US. Well, bread hasn't caught up yet. It hasn't caught up yet.

It's still like sandwich bread and things. It's just not the same. Sure. So it was like, let's start a bakery. Well, decision filter.

It can't be done part time. It can't be done remote location independent. I'm not a morning person. I don't wanna get up between the morning and bake bread and etcetera etcetera. Plus, we had no capital to even buy anything.

So through those things, we eliminated one business idea after the other until we stumbled through an infomercial. I actually watched Rhonda Grant's infomercial back in day. And now Ron is a good friend of mine. Mhmm. And I we came across real estate because it sounded doable, at least.

It sounded like, okay. You put something under contract. You perhaps you flip it. You wholesale it. We can potentially do that.

And that was the start. Mhmm. And from there, we failed a bunch of times because we didn't know anything about real estate. So we didn't know how to how to estimate repairs. We didn't know how much it cost to rehab a kitchen, how much it cost to rehab a bathroom, how to much repair a roof, fix a foundation issue, fix electric.

I mean, we didn't even know the language of real estate. Like, we didn't know what what I what what drywall is even. First time, it's like, yeah. Well, you need to place the drywall. I was like, me write it down.

What what the heck is drywall? And the other day, when we move a few years ago, we moved from our old home to our home where we live now. And, I found a bunch of, like, a bunch of the original very first real estate books that I looked through. And I looked through them and I saw they were still highlighted stuff. And I saw the kind of terms and things I highlighted.

It blows my mind the most basic real estate terms. I highlighted and I wrote up and decide what that means and things like that.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Because we're just learning the absolute basics. Right? And, and after that, we we got a deal on we did driving for dollars. We learned about that. We drove around, found ordered up houses, went down to the city or county, figured out what the what they're worth and and then contacted the person.

We got a deal on our contract. Mhmm. But everything was wrong about it. I mean, the valley was wrong. The repairs were wrong.

Steve: Was it all in was it

Jack: In Phoenix?

Steve: No. That

Jack: was in Phoenix. No. We're already living in Phoenix at the time. We only lived after being in Western Illinois for one year. We lived in Chicago for a year.

And then Michelle actually wanted to do her master's

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: At a very good school here in town, Thunderbird, American Graduate School for International Management. And I was able to move with a company I had a job for job with down here because they had offices everywhere. They basically said, I don't care where you live as long as you live close to an airport because you're gonna go travel anywhere. As long as you're willing to jump on a plane. Yeah.

Exactly. So we're able to move down here and, and that's where we started. So we found a place in the Garfield District, if you know Downtown Phoenix, and it was a mess. And so we couldn't sell it. Nobody would buy it.

We got a ton of calls on it. We had to back out of the deal. Then we looked into the next thing is we had just read Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert Kiyosaki. So Robert Kiyosaki had been a guest teacher at Thunderbird, and he hired a few of Michelle's friends in college to create a marketing plan for the rollout of his book for him.

Steve: Really?

Jack: And Wow. So we went one day one night, we hung out at one of her college friend's place, and he gives me the book and says, like, read this book. And that changed a lot because, obviously, like everyone who read Richard Ford had made a big big impact. And so we I read the book. It was fantastic.

And somewhere in the book, he talks about talking to his neighbor and he says, like, yeah. And I'm making 16% of my money with tax lien certificates. I'd never even heard the term tax lien certificate. I didn't know what that was. So I researched that and I found that and I filed tax liens and tax deeds.

And and through that process, we bought some liens and bought some and and and they were redeemed right away. Didn't make any money. Then we bought then we sent with our with all the money we had, a few thousand dollars, we sent Michelle to California to attend a tax deed auction. And she was outbid left and right immediately. So we failed on that too.

But then we had a thought that we ultimately says, you know what? If these people don't pay their property taxes and they really absolutely that blew our minds. If they so much don't want their properties that they even stop paying property taxes, what if we contact them? Because if we contact them now, perhaps somebody would just stop paying property taxes last week or last month. They made up their mind.

They don't want this thing anymore. Yeah. What if we contact them right now? We could be ahead of all the competition and so on.

Steve: Not get outbid.

Jack: Not get outbid and so on. Instead, get a deal because they don't want it anymore. They're willing to take, like, a few pennies on a dollar for it. And then we contacted. We did that.

We got to the county. Nobody was selling that data. Now you can get tax delinquent data from multiple sources. Back then, there's nobody was selling it. So we went into the we had literally had to go down to the county and find out what that is and and go and talk to the people and get, like, sometimes a cartridge given to us.

Then we have to find somebody who can process that cartridge and produce it into an Excel spreadsheet. What's a what a lot of, like

Steve: It wasn't logging in the PropStream?

Jack: No. It wasn't logging into PropStream or any other thing or CoreLogic or anything of these things. Little none of that. And and but ultimately, we got it done. And then we sent out these letters, and only people who owned land would would would would contact us.

Like, all the house the house owners wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't call us back.

Steve: So you still hadn't figured out a land of strategy yet?

Jack: No. Okay.

Steve: So you're you're just doing tax

Jack: We're now two and a half years into this, zero success, like, but desperate because we still hate it. We still our green card hadn't arrived.

Steve: At your job.

Jack: Still in our day job, still dependent on the Visa. Nothing had happened yet. Then we're like but we knew, like, there's something to that. There's somewhere in that realm of real estate, there there's the answer for us. Mhmm.

Steve: Yeah. And so then you realize only people that didn't have houses replied back to you. Yes. And that's when you had the epiphany.

Jack: Well, it wasn't an epiphany. It was more like, what do we do with that? Mhmm. Well, the good news is we're like, hey. Okay.

First of all, there's no house on it, so we we can't screw up again on estimating repairs. Yes. What let's figure out try to figure out what the thing is worth. So we called a few realtors in the area, and they're like, well, based on our data, we can tell that that properties in that area sold for, like, $8,000 in the past. We're like, okay.

So it's worth $8. But then we're like, well, I don't know if we can sell it for 8. I don't know if we can sell it for 6 or 4. We need to make some money. And this guy said on the phone, he said he just doesn't want it anymore.

He went through a divorce. He he doesn't care about it. He was initially had planned to build a house there. Now he just wants to get rid of it and he wants to move away. He wants to have a clean slate.

We're like, well, he's motivated. Mhmm. Let's let's be extra conservative and extra careful. Let's offer him, like, $400 for it. And he took it.

Mhmm. And then we went there, put a sign on the property, and the neighbor came across from across the street and right on the spot offered us 4,000 for it. Mhmm. But I okay. Well, we figured something out now.

Yeah. I I really enjoyed that because because we didn't have to estimate repairs. We didn't have to estimate, foundation issues or anything. We didn't we hadn't even seen the property. We're just like, k.

We figured out the valuation part.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Based on that, we made an offer, got it accepted, put a sign on it, the neighbor walks over, wants it, do a closing, made $3,600. We're like, well, that's about what I made in my job every month. Mhmm.

Steve: So

Jack: it's like, I just made a month worth of salary by sending out couple of 100 letters and doing a few phone calls. Yeah. I can do that again, and I don't really need to know anything about real estate at that point because I didn't need to figure out its development potential. We're not none of that. We don't deal in development land.

We just we just wholesale it, flip it, and and and then now sell and and also added tele financing at some point of time.

Steve: So 400 he took it. Is that more or less than the tax bill?

Jack: The $400 included about $200 in back taxes.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: So the guy netted $200 at the end of the day.

Steve: Okay. That's fascinating. So you eventually, you you kinda find the direction. Yeah. It just kept going, going, going.

So there's

Jack: a difference. That from that same mailing, another deal came out, and we made $9,500 of that one. We're like, well, let's do that again. We grabbed another tax delinquent list and send out some more letters, got another few deals done. And soon enough, we're like, you know what?

Screw houses. Forget about houses. We're not we're no longer even focusing on houses. We're just going for land because we don't have to know we still didn't know anything about real estate. We did still didn't know anything about anything having to do with buildings.

Not didn't know the terminology, but we had done real estate deals. So this is really the real the way to do real estate deals without knowing much about real estate. That's how we saw it. So So we started doing deals, and we just put the blinders on and did it. And then we also soon realized that tax delinquent is is limiting us to, like, only 3% of all the deals we can do.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Nowadays, we don't focus on tax delinquent real estate anymore. It was just our beginning because that's how we saw that there's people who really wanna give up their properties for nothing. Mhmm. That blew our minds, but there's there's 20 times, 50 times as many people out there. They still grudgingly pay property taxes, but they also wanna get rid of this piece of land because time circumstances have changed, so they inherited it or so on.

Steve: Yeah. Well and I think that you're talking about the, you didn't know anything about real estate. This is great for people that don't know real estate. And the reality is you were just really good at marketing and analyzing the data. Right?

This works. This doesn't work. Hey. This work. Let's do more of that.

That Which is really what marketing comes down to.

Jack: Yeah. Exactly right. And it's about marketing on the on the on the acquisition side. So we we then our first letter got us a very low response rate, so then we tweak the letters. Started split testing the letters.

We started sending out, let's say, a thousand letters with version a's, thousand letters with version b. Then we realized version a got us three percentage point higher response rate than the other one. And then so we screw this one and we forget this one and then we use this one and we test it again and again and again until we develop the letter that we, to this day, haven't been able to to beat yet. Yeah. And and and so on.

And then the same with, like, areas. You you you you make mistakes. I mean, we one of the areas we like focusing on is is areas that are, like, perhaps about a half an hour to an hour outside of bigger cities. Mhmm. Because prices are way lower, but it's still feasible for somebody to live there, particularly in today's world where half of The United States almost still works from home.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: It's feasible to live there. And if you need to go into the office, you're willing to drive an extra hour once a week or twice a week, but still now have, be able to live in the forest or live in the woods with with, like, on five acres or 10 acres and and have a horse and have a barn and have kinda like there's a lot of people who want that. I'm not I'm a city person. I don't want that. Like, I was as the dust, I was dying in Western Illinois University because I was living in rural rural America.

And it's like, it's not what I wanna do. Yeah. But but we make mistakes. So one time we did that not knowing where we picked a city like San Francisco, and we said, okay. Let's go an hour outside of that.

And we picked Sonoma County. Well, little did we know that Sonoma County is obviously big wine country. And back then, I knew nothing about wine. Now I love wine. But, but there knew nothing that the acres were selling for half $1,000,000, $1,000,000 an acre, and probably more now.

So sometimes you make mistakes and you go kind of to the wrong areas. But over time, you get better and better and better at at selecting the markets you go after.

Steve: And that's what marketing is. Right? Just getting better and better. Figure out what works, what doesn't work.

Jack: Exactly right. So there's a

Steve: few things you mentioned there. It's around the grand, and you learn about wholesaling. Yeah. When you learned about it twenty seven years ago, though, what was that called? It wasn't called wholesaling.

Jack: Quick quick flip, I think he called it. I think that's what his name. Yeah.

Steve: He wrote

Jack: his book and that we actually are testimonial in it because we use we didn't use any of his method, but he taught us the low terminology. And we had found a separate deal outside actually, one of the tax auctions. Before we developed our method, we had done one deal. That was at a tax auction where Michelle went to. She made friends with a lady that actually had one of her properties gone to let let that property go to tax auction because in states like California, if they sell for more than what was owed in Texas, the former owner gets the overage.

Steve: Excess proceeds. Yeah.

Jack: The excess proceeds. So she was there to collect the excess proceeds, and Michelle made friend with her, but she had another deal. And we got that deal for $70,000, which we didn't have. And we wholesaled it wholesaled it to somebody else for a $105,000. And after closing cost, we made $32,000 on that deal.

That was our really our seed money to then put stuff in place. But but that was a coincidental deal, not using our marketing strategy, but we used Ronald Grant's documents for that. They came literally the the day before I needed to go to to San Francisco to to meet with a lady and have her sign that agreement, we got the we got the document. So I'm eternally grateful for Ron for providing that to me. But then afterwards, we developed our own program.

Yeah.

Steve: And the reason why I'm asking these questions is because, you know, one of the things we're gonna be talking about later on is you've been around for some time. Yeah. Like, you you say you're friends with, you know, like, Ronald LeGrand, connected with Kiyosaki and this and that. So I just wanna share some of these older

Jack: Yeah.

Steve: What it used to be like, you know, in the in the old times.

Jack: Yeah. I mean, there's now we teach this. You teach this. Yeah. You have we have our programs.

We've I've been in a room and credit for credit is due. I've been in a room with, like, a 100 educators, including Ronald Grant, and somebody asked the question, who in this room got their way got got one or the other way influenced or started by Ronald Grant and, like, 60% of the hands went up. Mhmm. So if you have not heard of Ronald Grant, then make sure you you you look him up. He's still active.

He's in the seventies now. He he will in his life, he forgot more about real estate than I will ever learn.

Steve: Yeah. He did share some important lessons. Yeah. You know, he he's in we're a mastermind with him.

Jack: Yeah.

Steve: And the things he shared is like, wow. Okay. Make sure we don't make that mistake down the road. Right. Yeah.

And And then you mentioned, you know, you were, associated someone in some way with Robert Kiyosaki. So I had a chance to meet with him a few months ago.

Jack: Mhmm.

Steve: And, my experience with him is that he's pretty hot tempered. Yes. Has that always been the case, or is that, like, anywhere?

Jack: Yes. I've seen him present present. Like, when when he gave his name to one of the real estate coaching companies, we're called Rich Dad Education. Mhmm. They did their seminars, and they usually invited me on a Saturday night to give an extra presentation at night about land flipping because that's not something that that they were teaching in their university and their and and sometimes I was there doing the events, and I came a day earlier.

So and then Robert was there also teaching. And yeah. I mean, he's not only hot tempers, he's pretty foul mouth and, like, the f word is, like, often is used as we use the word and. And, and so the but he's also a smart guy. I mean, he's very, very smart, super sharp.

He he is definitely a doomsday more person. He expects the world to come to an end, and he's been preaching that for, like, now twenty years now, but he's not always been wrong. He's been occasionally been right.

Steve: So Well and I don't think if you look back right, like, I don't think anyone's changed more lives Yeah. For the entrepreneurial world.

Jack: Yeah. Especially in the real estate side of things. Yeah. In QSAC himself. Then he did.

Yeah.

Steve: And then you mentioned somewhere along the way, if you're doing your journey, and this is I know it's a total, like, side sideways thing here, but, like, you know, you mentioned tax liens. And so tax liens usually will be one of those things that's always popular. It's always like, oh, that's really cool. But I don't know, but just a handful of people that do really well on tax liens, and those that do really well on tax liens is because they've got a stupid amount of money.

Jack: Yeah.

Steve: It's like playing the craps game Yeah. But you can afford to put your chips on everything. Yes. Is that been your experience with tax liens?

Jack: 100%. Yeah. So tax liens the the facts about tax liens is the reason why it's popular and even with educators that teach it is because it gives the average students a success moment very quickly. Mhmm. Like, you go to an auction, you bid on something, you get the tax lien, and you're my god.

Now I'm a real estate investor. Well, no. You're not. You just bought a lien on something. You're a financial investor.

It's no different than buying a stock certificate, only with a difference that they can get the stock certificate back from you at any time and pay you pittance for it. Right? So I'm not a fan of stack tax liens. So I actually I probably in my life, I bought not many tax liens. Now I studied tax liens left and right, but I'm a much bigger fan of tax deeds.

Mhmm. Because at the tax deed auction, you actually get to participate at an auction for the actual real estate. What happens in the tax lien world instead? And for anyone doesn't know that, like, the tax liens is like you you buy somebody hasn't paid their property taxes and the state has two different options. And usually, it's it's regulated on the state statute level.

Very few very few, states like Nevada, for example, they they give each county the choice, but they all chosen tax deeds in that case. But either they they basically say the state the county says or the state says, hey. We want our money. And therefore, what they're doing is they're taking the the amount. If somebody has owes a thousand dollars in property taxes and they haven't paid it, they basically they put they put a lien on it and they sell that lien at a public auction.

So what you're buying is a piece of paper that says I paid the taxes for this person and whenever that person whenever the property changes hands, I'll get paid off. Or whenever they pay it off, I get paid off with a with a nice interest rate. Or if they don't pay that off over the next x years and it stay varies by state, then I, as a lienholder, can foreclose on that property. And that's what's being advertised. The the the the possibility of foreclosure.

Oh my god. I can get I can buy a thousand dollar tax lien and perhaps next year's tax lien and the following years I have $3,000 in it. And with that, I can now foreclose on a $100,000 property. Oh my god. That's the best thing ever.

Well, the reality is 99% of these tax liens are getting redeemed. So in

Steve: more than 99%. It's like 99.99.

Jack: Yeah. Or It's it's it's more like 99 or 99 something. But yeah. But it's the vast majority. Almost all of them get redeemed.

Steve: Right.

Jack: So what happens is the you can be successful by either focusing on tax liens on land again

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Because the land properties often again, those are the only people that call us back because they don't want this property anymore. Right. So there's a higher likelihood that they're that they go all the way to foreclosure. But higher likelihood doesn't mean it's it flip flops. It's instead of 99%, it's now 95%.

So in essence, you still need to buy a 100 liens in order to foreclose on five. Right. And if you pay a 100 liens at a thousand a pop, you gotta invest a $100 Yeah. To then eventually foreclose on five of them that then make you a ton of money. Mhmm.

And that was our problem. We had $5,000 to our name. We didn't have five, we didn't have a $100,000 to

Steve: our name. You need to have a lot

Jack: of money. And then on top of it, you have to wait sometimes up to three years before you can even start that foreclosure process. Yeah. And then the foreclosure process costs money too. Mhmm.

Right? So so you need hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to really long term be successful on the foreclosure side of tax liens. Now at the same time, there's people that with a lot of money that basically use it as an alternative to the stock market. Because you are getting in some places sixteen, eighteen, 24% guaranteed return. And some people say, like, great.

I have a few $100,000 instead of putting in the stock market. I buy tax liens with it. And as the money comes back, I reinvest it, and they're making killer returns. So it's an it but it's a financial model, not a real estate model.

Steve: Yeah. And when I last looked into it, the people that have done well with it, it's like two families. Two families with a crap load of money in a FedEx market, and they just buy all the liens.

Jack: Yeah. So so so that's why very quickly we we we didn't know about it. We studied it. It and it was an entry gate into what we do today because it blew our mind as an immigrant over here. In Honduras, nobody would give up their land.

I mean, that's what what you own. That's like you work, you live for the ability to own land. There's entire there's entire neighborhoods where they just invaded the land. They've built houses and really the poor neighborhoods, they're invaded. There's no plumbing.

They're thing they built entire cities on land that they don't own. They have no ownership rights and things like that. Land ownership is the ultimate wealth over there. Nobody would ever give up a piece of land. Same in Germany.

Like, land is like there's 80,000,000 people in Germany on the on a in a country the size of Illinois.

Steve: Right.

Jack: Right? There nobody land is scarce. You don't give up land. So coming over here and people seeing people just letting them go was like like the biggest mind shift ever. And that helped us then get get take the next step and the next and the next step until we realized that land flipping is great, that there's tons of people willing to give up their land for pennies on the dollar.

Steve: Well, yeah. And land is a scarce resource in Europe. Yeah. It's an abundant resource in The United States.

Jack: Absolutely.

Steve: So what were some of the biggest victories you had leading up to this point today?

Jack: Biggest victories in terms of land deals?

Steve: In terms of real estate.

Jack: In terms of real estate. Well, interestingly, the the I mean, we've done land deals with a $100,000 profits. I mean, one of my favorite deals I talk about the property up north in, in Prescott, Arizona, which is a nice retirement area that we bought for $1,875 and sold for $86,000. I mean, that's a stupid return. I don't know how many thousands of percent that is.

Right? But also, we bought a a lot for $90,000, sold it for $200,000. Things like that happen on a somewhat regular basis. The biggest wins though is when we started realist realizing and that the that even though land flipping is profitable as as heck, it is still an active business. And if you stop land flipping, now we we we'll talk you talked about the $70,000 in passive income.

We we like selling our land with seller financing. So that was a big win when we realized that is a that we can't even do that because again, remember, we started with no knowledge whatsoever. So once we realized that instead of having to take a $30,000 piece of land that we put on a contract for $3,000, that's the discounts we're getting, and then sell it for 15 and after closing cost make $11,000 or so, then we could also take this deal and sell it for $30,000 for full market value with a $5,000 down payment, which is more than what we pay for the property.

Steve: So

Jack: now you can do a double closing. Right? You can do a closing where where you do a title company and the buyer puts in $5,000. They use the five they use 3,000 to pay the seller, use the rest for their own expenses. So you don't get any cash, but now now they still owe you $25,000 and you allow them to pay that over the next ten years at monthly payments of $350 a month.

Mhmm. Now you're building cash flow with no money in the deal. And $350 times 12 is what? That's $4,200 times ten years is $42,000. So instead of making $11,000, you can now make $42,000 on the deal and you're building cash flow.

That was a big win, and we built that up all the way to, like, over $70,000 in passive income. But then the the ultimate win, I think, is when we started realizing that that we need to take the profits from this and roll it over into other asset classes. So we never we never did we never stayed away from from houses because we didn't like houses. We stayed away from houses because we had no clue how to make it work and because it's way more complicated than what we do. But ultimately, we wanted to have houses and this passive cash flow kind of the Kiyosaki thing.

Right? The passive cash flow. So now we we were able to let to take the money some of the money we make in land flipping, and for example, roll it over and own almost a thousand apartment units. Yeah. Like, some with investors, but a lot of it without investors.

Just Michelle and I, for example, in North Carolina, we own a 90 unit apartment complex that spits out as a net operating income of over $500,000, and there's no investors in it.

Steve: Yeah. Right? And Pretty incredible.

Jack: That's a huge win. That's a generational kind of income win. Mhmm. And and you have a few of those. Life is good.

Steve: Yeah. Life is really good. I think having one of those, life's pretty good. Yeah. So let's talk about this.

Jack: And that all came from that all came from the land money.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: So once you realize that the land game is not the end game, as much as I love it and as much as I will always do it, it is still a means to an end. And the end is absolute financial abundance to passive income from assets that you own and that will spit out cash forever.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Right. That was a big that was a mind shift that is often when you get into a business, you start losing that. You forget about it. You get so busy in the hustle Mhmm. That you forget those things sometimes.

Steve: So let's go back into it. Right? So someone is listening right now. They want to you know, we talk about how to make 70,000 per month in passive income.

Jack: Right.

Steve: Right? So, obviously, this is not something we're gonna do between now and the next year or next five years.

Jack: Usually not.

Steve: Right? This is something that you have to have an intentional plan that that you execute. So over a long period of time.

Jack: Yeah. So To get to that number, yes. To get to get to get to a 6 figure income and get to some cash flow, I mean, obviously, that can be done in a in a year. But, yeah, usually, you don't get to a $70,000 monthly income, $840,000 a year over within one year. I've I've not really seen anyone do that.

Yeah. So let's Neither did we, by the way.

Steve: Right. So let's talk about it. Right? So someone, like, likes this message and wants to start building this passive income.

Jack: Mhmm.

Steve: What are the first things they need to do in order to to go in that direction?

Jack: Well, they need to pick the vehicle that provides them the passive income. And and that's where I'm like, if if if you pick land flipping, if you're specifically asking how to do it in land flipping

Steve: How would Jack do it?

Jack: How would Jack do it?

Steve: Well Jack is starting over right now. Jack's 25 years old.

Jack: Yeah. If I, like, if I'm Jack starting over, I would honestly do the exact same thing again with a few tweaks. Like, I would probably network earlier. I would probably do a little bit more coaching earlier on because we stumbled through it. We didn't even know there were coaches

Steve: around. Mhmm.

Jack: Right? So we we didn't we lived in this kind of, like, isolation bubble or something like that. I don't know. Yeah. And, and there's ways to to accelerate and collapse collapse the time period.

Like, we have coaching students right now that in the first year, they did $900,000 in profits.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Well, that's that's a good amount of money that you can then leverage into other things. Right?

Steve: Sure.

Jack: But, the fastest way to do is if you if I would do it again, I would I would start with land flipping again, obviously, because because it allows you to get the biggest bang for the buck.

Steve: Alright. Alright. So explain land flipping again. Yeah.

Jack: Okay. So land flipping, what we do is we basically over these different ways, we figured out that there's lots and lots and lots of people that own a piece of land, that they inherited it, that they've had it for many years, that perhaps they want had plans for perhaps they wanted to build a house on to retire on, but then the child life and circumstances changed, like, perhaps they got ill or or they just wanna be close to their grandchildren and so on. Or they bought one here and one here in the country, and they built something here and now they have this one left over. Or they passed away and the heirs have it and many, many reasons why. But for many reasons, they're willing to let these properties go at way steeper discounts than the house flippers.

Mhmm. Because they don't see the in in immediate use in it. Like a house, if you're not completely stupid, you can basically figure out a way to to get somebody in there, rent it, or or sell it sell it as a handyman special or whatever thing. Just get some use out of that house.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Right? And a piece of land, people don't look at it and they're like, I don't know what to do with that thing. It's just sucking money out of my pocket. I don't want it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: So we have figured out that there's thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of people that don't want there anymore. Figured out how to contact them. It's through direct mail. And then, how to get them under contract. So we basically, we select an area, multiple areas.

We like to focus on three kinds of properties. Infill lots, we sell those to builders. Lots in the path of growth like thirty, forty minutes or twenty ten to forty five minutes outside of a bigger city. We, love those because, the the the the buyers are either future retirees that can't retire in the city. But and or, but because they they they want Social Security, won't cover their expenses, so they're looking for a lower cost retirement place.

And outside of the town are usually cost of living is lower. So they they paid us off. They often they pay monthly payments. They pay us off. And then they they later on put a mobile home on there once it's paid off and they have a dignified retirement.

Or nowadays with since COVID, it's all the people that work from home. They love that kind of land. A lot of them, they love that kind of land because they wanna be outside of the city. They wanna be space. Not everyone wants to live in a cookie cutter neighborhood where the where the where the neighboring fences and you can reach it out of your window.

Right? Right. And so we, and the third kind of property we focus on is large acreage in the more recreational areas, and and that has a built in buyer base of of all the RV people, the ATV, RV people. Like, you look at we both live in Phoenix. You look at Flagstaff up there every Friday.

It's a beeline up there with huge $100,000 RVs, ATVs, f three fifties with motorcycles on the back Mhmm. Boat behind it, you name it, camper behind it. And all those people have a ton of money and they want land.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Right? Right. So we have three areas that are absolutely we have a ton of ton of built in built in demand and we have a lot of it available too.

Steve: Right.

Jack: So that's what we focus on. So we we pick an area of that. We can dive into that deeper in a little bit if you want to. And, once we pick that area, we now get a list of them through some of the data sources, and then we send them out direct mail. Direct mail for us still works because there's much less competition.

So the response rates in a well selected area can easily be in a three or 4% range.

Steve: Really? That's really hard.

Jack: On one letter. Mhmm. Not on repeat letters, but on

Steve: one. Wow.

Jack: Which is about 10 x what what house flippers typically get. Mhmm. And, on a volume thing, yes, house flippers sometimes tell me, well, I get a 3% response rate on this tiny micro niche, but you only send out 250 letters. So you got, like, two answers on that and that's yeah. No.

We're talking about you send out a few thousand letters or so, you get a 100 answers back.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: And then, again, not all of them are willing to let these properties go for pennies and a dollar, but enough are. So we have some follow-up systems and so on that we do. And out of that, typically, one out of 25 or 30 offers that you make get accepted. Mhmm. So you get a you you send out 3,000 mailers, you get a 100 answers, you have four deals coming into the door.

And those four deals, you then immediately wholesale as a standard way is wholesaling them and then you make money with that. And if the average profit, let's say, in our student base, the average profit is about a $15,000 profit, then that's right there. That's $60,000. Yeah. So you spent $2 on marketing, make $60.

That's a trade I would do probably every day.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Right? And now you take that money and you reinvest some of that into your business and you build it up. The benefit of that method is number one, you can do it all 100100% from home because you don't have to go see land. You can use aerial pictures for it. Also, because it's 100% from home, the entire United States is your playground.

You can do it anywhere. So you pick the best areas that you like in the country, you go after it. The other benefit is like, now within a very fairly short period of time, a few months, you've made $60, $80, a $100. And that becomes now your seed money for anything else you wanna do. If ultimately you wanna own apartment complexes, well, if you wanna do a $10,000,000 apartment syndication in an apartment complex in a multifamily world, in order to even get a loan for that, your net worth needs to be equal or higher than the purchase price of this property.

So you need to have a if you wanna be the sole syndicator for that thing, you need to have a $10,000,000 net worth. Otherwise, you can't buy that lot that that building. So you need to build somehow some net worth and that's where the notes come in. As as you build these wholesale deals, over time what you do is you also sell some with self financing. Now if you sell a property with $50,000 with a $10,000 down payment, you just build a $40,000 note.

Mhmm. When you have that $40,000 notes and they make payments on it, your net worth just went up by $40,000. You do 25 of those notes a year, your net worth just went up by a million dollars. Now, you're much closer to qualifying for smaller multifamily deal. On top of it, you have cash flow coming in which the banks like to see.

Right. And and then if you still do some cash flows, you have extra cash. Now you have the cash for the down payment. You have the net worth to qualify for the deal, and now you can buy some of these bigger deals. Now as we compare that to houses, you wanna do the same thing for a house, you build up $60,000.

Well, you need that as a down payment for a house. The $60 are gone, and you only have 500 in cash flow. If you do it with a land deals on that kind of deal, like, $50,000 that that you have on a contract for 10, you get a $10,000 down payment, you have zero money out of pocket and you build a same $500 cash flow with zero money out of pocket. So it's superior in my mind

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: If you structure it the right way.

Steve: Oh, no. I totally see that. So, going back to identifying. So we've identified the quality of the land or the avatar Right. Of a potential land seller.

Right? What are some of the systems or tools that you've seen have been very effective, for someone that's newer into the business trying to get into land?

Jack: Well, the systems is like well, we we we use you don't really need a whole lot of systems. I mean, there are systems in place. Like, one of the systems we use, we have a software that we built for a to z that that helps you, that's connected to to a mailing house, that's connected to even a data source, that's connected to, that that keeps your deals organized in the different statuses that they're in there. Like, the deals you haven't sent out yet are here. The deals you have sent out are here.

The deals where you got an answers on are here. The deals you need to skip trace, they're here. So it's basically a graphical kind of thing to keeps everything graphical, representation of your deals. And you can simply go, alright. Today, I wanna do some skip tracing or send them for skip tracing.

Today, I wanna make some offers. They're all over the year. And, offer making tools and things like that. But, outside of that, it's more like you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There's systems, there's companies, there's services out there that allow you to do a lot of these things, in an automated fashion.

Steve: Sure. Was there any, like, one or two or three that you said, like, man, like, if you're gonna start you haven't you haven't done your first land deal yet No. Here's where you should start.

Jack: Well, you should start by selecting an area. Mhmm. That's the first thing. And for that, as I mentioned, you wanna pick areas in the you wanna pick a few metro areas in The United States, and you wanna go ideally outside of those, but don't pick this hyper growth areas. So go to Google very simply.

Search 100% 100 fastest growing metro areas in The United States. Pull it up. Scratch the first 10. Right? Because they're hyper growing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Now you don't wanna be around Austin, Texas. Everyone in the world is scrapping up every single piece of land that they can find around Austin, Texas.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Right? Or or or Dallas, Texas. Like, you don't wanna be immediately around Dallas because Dallas just keeps working or growing like crazy. But how about some middle of the road metropolitan area that you can go and that is growing, but it's not growing so aggressively that everyone and their brother he has in this looking for land. Because even in this in this hyper growth hyper in this hyper growth areas, even the house flippers don't get enough houses.

So what the house flippers are doing and, you know, we're in supplement master minds together. They started in the last few years, they started building houses because they can't get enough deals because the competition is so high that they're starting to find land and then build on the land.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Yeah. So in those markets, it's going to be harder to find deals for us. So we're going to the second tier of markets where they're not building houses, where there's less competition and and in this case, there's almost no competition. So the first thing is you use free available tools like Google to search those areas then go outside, then there's like a zip code tool. You you just simply go into Google and say zip code, a zip code tool.

And you'll find out an area where you can simply pick pick any zip code in the country and then say you can do like a 30 mile circle around it. So you pick Atlanta, Georgia, do a 30 or 50 mile, you do a 50 mile circle around it. And then you go outside and you see which counties are around here. Because now you're far enough away for prices to be way lower, and you're still close enough for somebody to to build buy something there, retire there, and if they wanna go to a ballgame, they can go in. If they wanna go see their kid grandkids, they can go.

If they will need to go grocery shopping once every week or so, they go to Walmart, which is like ten, fifteen miles away. So and and and that is a free tool. These are free things that people can use to find the areas. Yeah.

Steve: The next

Jack: thing after that, you go and you pick land within usually, the value will go after within 10,000 and $500,000. We, we pick land that we like areas where there's a lot of kind of little roads and there's, like, open land, not necessarily area where it's on all farmland. So if you wanna do this in Iowa, well, there's it's farmland everywhere. Like Kansas, it's farmland everywhere. Farmland is an income producing property that a farmer is not just gonna give you for 10¢ on a dollar.

Mhmm. So this works Midwest works, but there are certain states where they're all farmland. You kinda wanna stay away from that. So you wanna look at those from that angle a little bit. And then and then, use once you have that, you connect to a data source like like agent pro no.

Like a CoreLogic, like, with data tree, like, things like that. Our software is connected to one of them. And you just basically say, I want we typically ask people to select about six to eight such counties to start out with. And again, they can be anywhere in The US because you don't have to be in your in your backyard. Six to eight counties and then send about a $750, letter test mailing out to those counties.

And what you'll find is that some of them you get a crappy result, some of them you get a decent result, and some of them you get amazing results. Then what you do is you probably get a deal or two from that, and that gets you to your first deal. Right.

Steve: And

Jack: wherever you got the deals, you go deeper and you do more deals there. And then then and after that, at that point, you have you have now done deals. That point, you're a real estate investor. Mhmm. And at that point, you take the next step with optimizing the system.

And that's what we work a lot with our coaching students together. We we it's all about, like, follow-up systems at that point. And, like, we like to use, like, sly broadcast

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: To send an automatic follow-up about two weeks after somebody makes an offer. Some after we send our first offer, we said two to three weeks later, we send a slide broadcast over. It's like, hey. We'd like to discuss the offer, please call us back. Yeah.

Few people call back. You have an opportunity to negotiate with them. If they haven't, you go send another set of offers that's slightly higher. And things like that, negotiation techniques and things like that play a role there so you can literally double and triple the amount of deals. And then, the other question is how do we sell them?

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: And the selling side is we actually use, you can use realtors. Over time, you will build up a buyers list. And some of our fastest sales are obviously the buyers list. You do a deal in the town where you have where you have 50 or a 100 500 people waiting for a deal in that.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: You simply send it to them same day property sold. Right?

Steve: Gotcha.

Jack: Sometimes we go to the neighbors in the area and it's not just the next door neighbor. Like, our very first deal sold to the neighbor. Like, but, but that was a neighbor across the street. But many of our students sell up to a third of their deals to the neighborhood. If somebody owns a piece of land there, not everyone hates owning a piece of land there.

Mhmm. Most people love their land and they would like to buy more because their wants a piece of land there. Their cousin wants a piece of land there. Their dad or their son, they want a piece of land there. Well, great.

Pick about 50 to 200 people in that neighborhood. Send them a letter saying like, hey. Send them a little package. So like, hey. We got this property here.

Third of our properties here, properties are gone are gone. So over time as you build this, you sell a third to your buyers list, a third to the neighbors. You only have a third that you actually need to put up on the open market.

Steve: Interesting. So we talked about acquiring it. What about the the deal structuring? Like, how do you determine what to offer as far as seller financing?

Jack: Alright. So we have we usually our our seller financing? Okay. So the whether or not you offer seller financing on the sale size in the first place really depends on a couple of things. The first thing it depends on is how cheap did you get the property?

Because if I got a property, like, I I was telling Aaron earlier, one of your team members, if you do this at any kind of c at any kind of volume, you can expect to, at least once a year, get a piece of land for free. If you get it for free, that's a perfect candidate, anywhere close to free. It's a perfect candidate to sell it to sell financing. What's your down payment that you need to have your money back? Right.

Like zero. Right? Yeah. Every dollar every dollar down payment is already you're already in the money. Mhmm.

Now by the way, these these free deals, they're not $100,000 lots. Right? They're more like the lower end deals, the $510,000 pieces of land. Mhmm. You got it for free.

You you sell it. You put it up for $8,900 with a $500 down payment and because every dollar is free money. Mhmm. Well, what if you have a $100,000 debt property that you get under contract for $50 and you're looking to sell it for $70? Well, that would probably be more of a cash deal that you don't offer seller financing cause it's extremely unlikely that somebody says, yeah, I'll buy it for even if you ask for $90,000 at full close to market value, says, like, I'll buy it for 90 and I'll give you 50 down.

Yeah. That just doesn't happen. Right. They wanna put typically about 10 to 20 down.

Steve: So So step one is how much you're buying it for?

Jack: But for in relation, what percent of a market value do you buying it for? If you're buying it super cheap, it's a great candidate for seller financing. If you're going up the the the price ladder, then it's seller financing is not so easy to pull off because now you gotta supplement the difference. Mhmm. Now with our coaching students, now you have an advanced audience so I I'm comfortable talking about that.

But with our coaching students, we actually also work on a additional kind of way which is what it's called what we call a triple close. So we have build up in our universe a whole bunch of note buyers. So when you have a situation that you have a property that let's say it's worth a $100,000, you have it under contract for $50,000 and you sell it for $90,000 and somebody comes, I buy it for 90, but I only give you $20,000 down.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Now there's a gap of $30,000, right, in that deal. What happens is what you can do if you if you if you structure it right is what we call a triple close, which is number one, you find that you you say yes to that deal. So you have an agreement with the seller for 50. You have an agreement with the buyer for 90 with a $20,000 down payment and a $70,000 note, and then you bring in a note buyer. And the note buyer buys that $70,000 note for $60,000 right on the day you create that note.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: So now you have three transactions happening all on the same day. You have a you purchase it for 50, you sell it for 90, you get 20 so the buyer puts in $20,000 into escrow, but you also sell the notes. So the note buyer puts in $60,000 into escrow. So the title company has $80,000 sitting in the account plus some closing costs. So now the title company takes 50 to 50 to the seller, gives 30 to you.

So you make $30,000 and gives the note to the note buyer who then starts collecting on the money. So you can still do deals like that without using any of your own money and make a deal that otherwise wouldn't work it become a $30,000 cash event for you.

Steve: Yeah. A lot of advanced deal structuring there.

Jack: There's a lot of advanced deal structuring, but usually our students don't do that on day one. Right. They usually do that a little bit later on in the deal or we if it's if it's just their very first deal looks like that, we just give them heavy help to to to do that.

Steve: Can I imagine doing that as my first deal? And then you talk a lot about this. You said, was it, we were talking before the show, landprofitfund.com.

Jack: Right? Land profit fund, like fun, like having fun, no d at the end. Landprofitfun.com. Yes.

Steve: So then the next thing you gotta do is we've got deals we've locked up, deals we've sold whether wholesale or, on seller finance. But that isn't the biggest chunk then of your passive cash flow, the the the selling the land. It's really reinvesting in other assets then.

Jack: Well, in 2009, it was. Mhmm. Because between 2002 when we started, in 2009, we just had our blinders on and all we did was land flipping and land flipping for cash and seller financing. And we built that up to over $70,000 in cash flow.

Steve: So that can be done with just land?

Jack: Yes. 100% only land. We had net not touched any physical structure other than the house we lived in ourselves. Mhmm. Which we still own.

Now it's a rental property. But yes. So 100% with land done. Done with land. What we happened what we realized at that point is that the land cash flow, if we ever stop flipping land, eventually will dwindle down because these land notes will be paid off.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: And at that point, we're like, how many we ask ourselves, how many times do we wanna rebuild that over time? Well, we don't. We wanna maintain it high because we love land flipping, but we need to take the money off the table at $70,000 a month worth of money off the table and move that into other asset classes. So initially in 2009, when the market was in shambles and houses in the Phoenix area that the year before were worth $200,000, now we're selling for $40,000, it means we could buy two houses a month cash.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: And that's what we did. Yeah. So for a couple of years, we went we went and bought two houses a month just cash. Just both of them, I just bought them, bought them, bought them, bought them, bought them, and then put some money into into fixing them up and renting them out. And the nice part is we still own those houses.

Steve: Wow.

Jack: And now they're not worth 40. They're worth 400. Mhmm. And we still have them. Yeah.

And, obviously, that now is producing a multiple 6 figure cash flow for us too.

Steve: Yeah. So I was that idiot realtor that was selling you those houses for 30 to $40,000. Right? Hey, Steve. I wanna go look at some houses.

I wanna look at some foreclosures. Like, yeah. Sure. No problem. Let's get in the car.

Let's go look at these. Yeah. So you're buying them?

Jack: We were buying them. Yes. We were buying them, and we stopped way too early. When the prices hit, like, $200,000, we're like, oh, that's too expensive.

Steve: Last time.

Jack: That's insane. And we went to other markets. We continued buying them in Cleveland, Ohio where we bought them for 50 or 60. And we just today just before we got on the podcast, I sold my very last one there, because they no. For a 130.

So they they we we doubled the value on those. Not 10 x, but double. But those were and that's also a lesson learned. The Phoenix properties cash flow like crazy because we specifically focused on nineteen fifties brick built properties that cannot be destroyed. In Cleveland, we bought nineteen twenties bungalow style buildings that constantly had a $10,000 repair.

So we never made any cash flow on those, But at least over the last five to seven years, they doubled in value. So we got something from it. But Yeah.

Steve: What was it? I think That's

Jack: why we sold them. The Phoenix one, we never sell.

Steve: The term I learned, we we learned from Frank Kava. Right? CG was unbreakable.

Jack: Yes. Right.

Steve: We wanna buy unbreakable properties.

Jack: That's exactly right. And that's why we bought in Phoenix. They're not in great areas, but they're unbreakable. Yeah. Right.

So so yeah. So then over time, we we just we kept pushing that. And and then from there, we transitioned. We said, like, well, if we can have a portfolio of Phoenix a house houses in Phoenix that we never see and a portfolio of houses in Cleveland and a portfolio of houses in Omaha, Nebraska that we never see, then why don't we take a step up and start taking the money we make from land flipping and roll it into multifamily? Mhmm.

And that's when we started buying fifty, seventy, a hundred, hundred fifty unit apartment complexes and started getting to the syndication game. But the answer is always, like, we focus on land flipping and on teaching land flipping, and that is what we use as asset allocation. We don't teach it. We never have plans to teach it. We we just this is our end game.

Real estate, pile it up, keep it for long term, have it cash flow. So if we ever pull the plug and decide to retire, that capes for a lifestyle for the rest of our lives. You did

Steve: the right thing when you were reached at four dead. You actually bought assets that cash flowed. Right. So you flipped over four to 500 pieces of land, going over a thousand doors.

Jack: Close to a thousand. Close to

Steve: a 100. Just under a thousand. And over 3,000 acres of land. Now there's a couple of things that, we have in common. So you and I both present at ASRIA.

So Arizona RIA, the local RIA. So if you guys are in Phoenix, you might catch Jack and me periodically at the local RIA. We're both within, Collective Genius.

Jack: Right.

Steve: Yeah. So I've been in there since 2020 as the I joined as a sales trainer, and that's, like, one one of the best decisions I ever made. How long have you been in CG?

Jack: Oh, I've been in CG probably since 2013.

Steve: So you're one of the original guys?

Jack: No. I think they started in 2010 or '11. So I Okay. Two, three years into it, I joined. Yeah.

Steve: Got it. Got it. So why do you still go?

Jack: The human connections you make over there first of all, real estate always changes. Right? I was on a on a on a multifamily investors group called from Collective Genius today Mhmm. And learned a ton already, again, just from understanding from some from other people that that operate very high level funds, particularly the finance guys we're talking today, the fund managers and the the mortgage brokers about where we are in the in the in the interest rate and the thing, what's happening, what what and and it's all about getting visibility, really. So I'm I'm probably the best answer about CG is I've I've yet to find a better place where you have people that live that that do deals day to day and have their ear on the ground and their entire body on the ground.

They live on a in on the ground, like, know exactly what's going on in their market, come together, and openly share what they see in the market on a quarterly basis, on a daily basis to the Facebook group and things like that.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: And what it really means is that, like, the number one regret I have and it's it's a regret on a very spoiled level. Right? I wanna say that. The number one regret I have is that back in 02/1011, I did not buy 100 x more houses.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Right? And the reason I didn't is because I didn't have that environment around me of people that basically could help me with bringing the money to the table. Right? Could help me. We we paid those houses cash.

If I would have had somebody that says like, you know what, Jack? I'll give you $10,000,000 to buy those more, $20,000,000, whatever it is to buy to buy 50 more of these houses or 500 more of these houses, whatever it is. On and and then I I mean, it would have been a 10 x impact. Like, we made really good money on those, but now it would have been, like, 9 figures, right, in in profits. And and so I learned that when you when when the market changes, the very most important thing you gotta have is you gotta be able to plug into a community that has visibility about what's going on in every single market that can give you that can yeah.

It gives you, like, a crystal ball, really.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Because, like, there's certain markets that always go first. Phoenix is one of them. Florida is one of them. Nevada is one of them. In the house where there's certain markets that always take the lead on the way down, and they always take the lead on the way up.

Mhmm. Well, if you just have the blinders on, you don't know that. You don't see that. So CG is a great value plus I mean, one of the guys in CG taught us how to do, how to flip, how to buy apartment complexes. One of the guys in CG is our partner in Cleveland that we're buying that we bought, like, 17 houses in Cleveland, only one of them I've ever seen.

We already sold them, the last one today. Yeah. But I've not seen 16. You build trust relationship with people to the degree that you allow them to buy houses for you, sight unseen, and, and and so on. And and and that's a rare kind of place in the world to have.

So there's like, and on top, I mean, there's experts that are doing stuff that I've never even still to this day, never even heard about. So it's it's it's a fantastic group, and there's multiple like tech out there, but I think CG is the best.

Steve: Yeah. And, you know, you talk about buying properties. Right? You wish you would have bought more. That's all that is my biggest regret because I still remember going to Arizona REIA back in 2007 and seeing these guys talking about, you know, buying these properties and here's a hard money.

And at this time, I was like, who is stupid enough to borrow money at 18%? Right? This is the mindset I have. Yeah. Who is stupid enough to borrow money at eighteen percent?

One of my biggest regrets is never buying any properties at 18% money when you could have bought those houses at $4,050,000 dollars because you would cash flow from day one.

Jack: Yeah. Even at 18%.

Steve: Even at 18%.

Jack: And we ultimately did got a not so hard money loan. That's the smartest thing we did. We we we tapped out our cash and we wanted to buy some more. They went back to a hard money loan. They gave us a loan at, like, about 10% interest rate.

And, and that allowed us to buy another, I don't know, whatever, another 10 houses or so with that. And that was great because, like, the cash flow paid them off within a matter. And the cash flow of our land that kept paying them off, they were paid off within a year and a half. And and those houses went up millions of dollars in value.

Steve: Yep. So one of my biggest regrets. But, the other thing too, though, you're talking about CG. So one of the funny things is, you know, I've been going around letting everyone know, hey. You know, Steve invested in bank.

I see Steve is the founder of bank. I do all these crazy things. Right?

Jack: Yeah. We we own a bank together.

Steve: We own a bank together. Right? And I've had people ask me, like, well, you know, how hard was that? I was like, well, not very hard for me. Right?

These other guys worked really hard for fourteen years. I was, like, the last guy. I was like, hey. We're going to we're going to Tucson. You wanna jump on the bus with us?

Yes. That was my involvement Yeah. In the bank.

Jack: In essence, that's basically what we're talking about is Scottsdale Community Bank Mhmm. Which is a great brand new bank. And, I I helped them raise some money for it. And part of that money raising, I think, you heard about it and you're like, hey. Can I still get on board?

And and so, so yes. And so we both invested in the bank. We're we're founding members of the bank, but we don't really have any operational involvement. I think I'm I'm on a board of advisers or so for the bank or about to be on a board of advisers for the bank. That's about it.

And Yeah. They wanted me on the board of directors, which at the time I declined because I was too busy. We'll probably rejoin at some point of time again. But yeah. And and perhaps you too.

Who knows? But, but the, but, yeah, it's a it's a fun thing to be able to zone. Hey. We own a part of the bank, and that's certainly true.

Steve: It's certainly true. And the thing that's what what the connection was, though, was that someone was saying, hey. Who's got a good bank in Arizona? I commented, here's who I use. You commented, hey.

You know, here are some resources. Or if you guys can wait a little bit, I got a bank opening in so and so day. Right? That was all you said.

Jack: That's right. Yeah.

Steve: And I messaged you immediately. Tell me more about this. How do I join you in opening this bank together? Then you're able to connect me with the chairman and president and so on. But that's the power of networking.

Jack: Yeah.

Steve: That's the power. Like, if I was not in CG with you, I would not have known about this opportunity to invest in the bank, and we wouldn't be able to, you know, have been investors in this bank together.

Jack: Yeah. Right. Absolutely. The power of a group like that I mean, I put an eight figure net worth increase, just on being a part of that group. I mean, for example, that's that's just easily 8 figures, easily $10,000,000 that my net worth have grown just from being part of that group and the connection and the investment opportunities and things there made for that.

Is it just last just last year, we we saved our tax rate tax rate went from whatever, the top tax rate to I think we we're going to have an average and and a tax rate of under 5% for the year because of some of the investments we made through that group.

Steve: Yeah. I'm I'm guessing probably with, with Big Mike.

Jack: Yes. That's right.

Steve: Yeah. And then, yeah, if you join, you know, communities like CG, you get to learn about guys like Big Mike. And then we're also in family together.

Jack: Yes. That's right. I just joined that. Yes.

Steve: You just joined that. That's right. So, you talked about one of your things you wish you'd done earlier was networking.

Jack: Mhmm.

Steve: So, you know, I know we just touched on it a moment ago as far as collective genius, but, know, if you were to start all over again, you would start networking earlier.

Jack: Yeah.

Steve: So for those that are listening right now that aren't networking, what would you say to them?

Jack: Yeah. Network. I mean, I I posted on something. There was a in a different group by by a guy that does a lot of creative finance. There's somebody says like, hey.

How do I go about that? It's like, I I I feel like I need money to invest. And it's like, no. You don't need money to invest. You need creativity.

You need knowledge, and you need a network. Mhmm. Because every like, even in our coaching business, I mean, there's there's the people we we we enjoy helping the most is those that actually are doing the work and wanting and asking for help. Mhmm. Like, so if you go number one, join ARIA.

Join a ROSA Investment Association, Absolutely crucial. And then go don't just join. Don't just join like you join a gym. Actually, go every single month to the meeting and don't just sit in a chair and attend the meeting. Go they have a networking session.

Go from booth to booth. Go get business cards. Ask people. Talk to people. Like, even if you're a shy person, get over that inner, that inner hurdle and and and talk to people and get their business cards and ask them what they're doing and build a little bit of a Rolodex.

And then as you go, even if you do this on your own without coaching or whatever, as you find deals, run those deals by those people. Like, call them, hey. We met the other day. I got a deal in there. Would you mind taking a two minute look at it?

Mhmm. Nobody's gonna tell you no for the first couple of deals. Now, of course, if you send them 25 deals and they all suck, at some point of time, they're gonna be like, no. Right? But but then spread them around.

If you have five people to ask, send one deal to this guy, one this and and have them just give you an estimate. And if they say they have a deal, if they say this is a deal, guess what? That same person probably has the connection to actually make that deal happen for you, joint venture with them. The other thing, the first deal is not about maximizing money. The first deal is about getting that experience and so you can say you have done a deal.

Mhmm. And once you have done a deal, everyone takes you more seriously. You actually take yourself more seriously. You walk through life with your with your head up because you're now a real estate investor. And and sure enough, within a few weeks, you know who is the money guy in the room.

You know who is the network who is the title company in the room? Who is the attorney in the room? Who is the who is the person that, is the creative finance guy in the room? Who has the buyers list in the room? And and once you have that, you you you got your dream team.

You got your team around. It might not be ultimately your dream team. Right? There's a lot of crooks in this industry too. So there might be people that try to get a piece of your deal, and you learn the hard way with that.

But at least you have a team now. You know where to go to get the money. You know where to go to sell the property. And then you give up pieces of your deal in order to do that, but at least you get a deal.

Steve: Absolutely.

Jack: Right? And and and that's a free that's all free. It might cost you a $150 a year membership in a Ria to do that. And and and you're out at least you're you're you're going. That's what we did.

We started out as Ria. As a matter of fact, Michelle is member number two in the Arizona Real Estate Investors Association. Really? I'm member number three.

Steve: Really?

Jack: Yeah. Because we'd had no experience, nothing whatsoever, but we were told join ARIA. It was like, we googled it. They had a website. I think Alan Langston put the website up.

The former owner put the website up the day before. So and I was like and I contacted him. He's like, yes. Of course. We're taking members.

I was like, great. Became members. We went their very first meeting. There were, like, 35 people there, and that's it. And, and they had no no they had nothing in place.

Was it

Steve: did Alan have a bunch of white hairs back then too?

Jack: He did, actually. Like, he was half white, but half white hair by that time. But but, yeah, this is so we joined that, and and we had never done a deal. We were the newbies in the room. But then guess what?

Within a little bit of time, there's, like, a sponsoring title company. Well, guess what? My god. I have a deal. What do I do now?

Well, oh, I have the phone number of that person. Hey. Do you take this deal? Yes. Let's go.

Right? There's a realtor there. Can you help sell this property? Yes. Okay.

Great. Let's go. And and and soon enough, you have you have a team together. And then some of them fall away if they don't perform over time, and and you truly build your dream team over time. But, like, the first attorney we hired there was crap.

But then the second the third attorney we found through them is my attorney still to this day.

Steve: Yeah. And, again, I I I mentioned earlier. Right? Like, one of my biggest regrets was not paying more attention when I was going to the local events. Yeah.

And then, you know, again, talking about networking is, we got a mutual friend, Mike, Fitzgerald. And, he is, as far as I can tell, the single best networker alive. Right? The guy will say hi to anybody and everybody at all times and let him know that he's in real estate. And the doors he's opened, I think he's opened more doors than anybody else.

Right? Who hangs out with, like, the prime minister in Korea and princes and all these and and Yeah. In all these other Middle Eastern countries. It's absolutely insane.

Jack: It is insane.

Steve: Right. While also hanging out with NFL athletes on the weekends. Right. Just crazy what that guy is And

Jack: he's like his five foot three kind of guy that that doesn't look like anyone that you would we would I mean, we love him. Like, Mike is great. Actually, yeah. And again, those to those kind of things, we got line of credits with banks. We got an established relationships.

Because he told me, like, here's what you say. You go you go to the bank and you ask for this person. This is the exact words you say. It's like, great. And, yeah, it's it's fantastic that the people you meet.

Steve: And if you guys need a loan, Jack and I can help you, get a loan. So before we get into the question, I wanna ask you one more question before we go to the, the the audience's questions. You are here preaching about land. Why don't more people do land?

Jack: Because it flies under the radar. There's no TV show. How could

Steve: it fly under the radar? You've been talking about it for so long.

Jack: I know. And we have been very successful, changing people's life with it. But the first like, here's a standard Here's an answer that one of the people that that now is doing fantastic in land flipping gave me. He listened to he found a new podcast from somebody, and there was 10 episodes. And he looked at them.

He's like, okay. I like the first episode. And he like, let me look at the other nine. And I was like, I wanna listen to all of them, but this one, he ranked them in terms of interest. And they were all real estate ones.

And then one of them was about land flipping with me. And he's like, well, that's the least thing. Well, who wants what's land? Land land has this perception that it's boring, that it takes forever, that is expensive because people think of the downtown $5,000,000 development land that you need to spend millions of dollars, bribing the county councils, that you need to whatever thing. I don't know.

But that you need years to development, that you have to go back and forth, and and then you have to work with someone like you get a $100,000,000 construction loan to build a high rise on it. That's what people think about that land. Or they think about it as farmland being expensive. Or they think about it as just like this useless thing that sits there and just steals your property taxes. No matter what, there's no no positive association with land for most people.

And as a result, they're not interested. Also, there's no HGTV show that says flip this land. Right? Because what do they people say, like, Jack, you should throw a TV show. Like, what are we gonna do?

Michelle and I sitting on a desk and and and and typing some and working on our computer and making offers? Like, that's, like, that's dead on arrival, this kind of show. Right? Yeah. I mean, of course, could it be made fun if we go out to the desert and we chase some rattlesnakes off our land and Go shoot some guns.

Or perhaps, like, in the go shoot some what?

Steve: Go shoot some guns.

Jack: Go shoot some guns and things like that. But then then, yes, you can make it probably entertaining and so on. But but there's no land flipping show because there's no before and after.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Right? The what what makes house flipping shows so attractive to people is like, look at this ugly view here. And let's look at this thing afterwards. Oh my god. It's either before and after.

And then all before and after is like, you see this piece of land? Looks exactly the same. Looks exactly the same. There's nothing there's nothing we can do about it.

Steve: The production cost. Right? Because you only have to go out there once.

Jack: Right. That's true. That's true. Yes. And so So I was wondering why nobody out there.

It's not it's not sec perceived to be sexy. But you actually every podcast in your studio, you have a wall where everyone that's on a podcast needs to be something putting out something on there Mhmm. And sign it. I put it on there. Land is sexy.

Because you know what's sexy about it? If you can't get a piece of land for 10¢ for 10¢ on a dollar and sell it for 50¢ on a dollar and that 40% spread is $40,000 and you don't see it and you don't do with it and you don't have to leave your family and your kids and and your and your spouse and and and you can have dinners whenever you want and you don't have to sit in people's kitchen kitchen table, that's sexy to me. And the profits are sexy and it's all worth

Steve: trusting. So the lifestyle and the money is sexy.

Jack: The lifestyle, the money is sexy.

Steve: Just the product is

Jack: not sexy. The the product is sexy too, particularly if you go a step further. And for example, a lot of the people that work with us in the late stages of coaching, they take it a step further. For example, we have one of our coaches who actually takes properties and and now splits them. She takes, let's say, three acres, and she splits them into six half acre lots.

And then she gets a construction firm to come in and build mobile home hookups into it. Then she has a mobile home, company close by, a mobile home dealership, put actual mobile homes on it. And then they sell them, as a package. And a deal that she would normally make $30,000 as a normal flip, by splitting it, she takes that and makes it from $30,000 to a $100,000. By putting the utilities in, takes it from a $100,000 to $250,000.

So now she's making instead of making, like, yeah, $30 on one deal, she makes a quarter million dollars on that exact same deal by putting a little bit of extra effort in it. Yeah. And it might take six months to do all of that, but that is sexy too. Now you can hit it before and after. Yeah.

Steve: Now we can actually do a reveal.

Jack: Yeah. You can there you can do a reveal. So all of that is possible. Now why else is that so why why is not sexy is because people don't think about it. So this guy in the podcast, he put he ranked us least.

And he listened to this and that and that and that. And then he listened to us, but then as he when he finally was done to be the episode, he's like, oh my god. This is the best thing I've heard about. And then he reached out to us, and then he enrolled in coaching, and then he and and now he's doing, like, multiple six figures.

Steve: Gotcha. Gotcha. Alright. So let's go ahead and go, do a quick break, and then we're gonna go to audience's questions. Before I got into real estate, I always wanted to become a teacher.

The main reason I actually have a sales training platform is to actually fulfill my passion and teach you guys more about real estate and sales. Something I've learned along the way, though, is that learning from my teaching alone is not enough. It's also helpful if you learn from others. That's why on May 17, I'm launching something that will allow you to learn from others that are also doing sales. It's all a part of my mission of creating a 100 millionaires.

So the best ways to become a millionaire is to become excellent at sales and learn how to connect with others. So if you want to improve your sales and learn alongside other sales assassins, make sure you tune into my podcast on May 17. And as an added bonus, if you purchase my sales master class, you will get lifetime access to what we're launching. So to entice you, we are offering 50% off, but this offer does expire on 05/10/2023. If you want to become our next millionaire, DM me the word master class now.

Alright. So let's go to the audience's question. So the first question is our great friend Ingrid on YouTube. So, yeah, well, she's basically saying that you can mid mitigate. Let's just start here.

Who are the main types of buyers buying land on seller finance? So we talked about the avatar

Jack: Right.

Steve: For the guy that's selling it, guy and gal selling it. What's the avatar for the guy buying land on seller finance?

Jack: Alright. So the, on seller finance specifically. So the builders usually buy cash.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: The the people who buy seller financing is typically the the future retiree, somebody who has just basically doesn't have a ton of money. Usually, unfortunately, in The United States, there's a sad statistic that basically says that that's I think it's seventy percent of all the people over the age of 50 don't have more than a few thousand dollars saved up. Mhmm. And, if you look at the Social Security predictions, I mean, the average Social Security check is under $2,000.

Steve: So This is not gonna work.

Jack: Exactly. This is not gonna work. You have no money saved up. You're getting $1,500 in Social Security. You can't even rent an apartment and and pay your pay a car payment or put gas on the car and insurance.

Your money's gone. You're you're you're starving. Mhmm. That concept of old age poverty is actually something that's gonna come up way more in The United States. It's already in Europe.

Everyone thinks of Europe, especially Germany, is like the social. No. The old people in Germany are suffering massively because they're getting $8,900 in Social Security and they can't live with it.

Steve: Wow. I

Jack: have no idea. So but and the same is gonna happen in US. So so the smart ones, I always joke. The smart ones, they're they're they're learning from us and how to flip land. But, the second ones, the ones that don't know we exist, they go and they start thinking about, well, how can I retire?

And the logical answer comes like, well, if I own the land and perhaps I get a mobile home, I can do it. But they don't have the money to pay a $30,000 piece of land. So they're looking around. It's like, oh, I can put down $5,000 on this piece of land and pay $300 a month for the next ten years and pay it off. Let me do that.

Mhmm. So you we are enabling them to do that because banks don't like don't wouldn't never finance them.

Steve: Right.

Jack: Banks would never give them a loan. If anything, a bank would the most the bank would give us a 50% loan to value. So even on a $30,000 deal, they would have to come up with $15,000 and no bank even touches a $30,000 piece of land. So in essence, they don't have any other choice. So we are allowing them to actually have a dignified retirement.

And it's a great service to to them. And so they pay it off over the next ten years, and then they get a a used mobile home, put it on there, and they have a good retirement. So that's that's them. Often also, it's an interesting thing. Seller financing does not have to do with does not have to do with the availability to cash.

In the market that we're in right now where where houses came down in value and now they're kind of stagnant and perhaps coming back up again in some markets like Phoenix, It's more of a psychological thing. People have money, especially if you're going through a recession or something. It's our second time to go through a recession here. But if in the recession, people still have money, but they don't wanna spend it all on one thing. Mhmm.

So they are choosing to do the set of financing if you offer it. They're choosing it just so that they have some powder still dry on the sideline for other emergencies. But the moment they see that the economy is flipping back into the positive and the cry any kind of crisis or or their own crisis or as long as they feel their confidence, and moment they feel confident in their own financial abilities again, they paid off. Mhmm. And that's what happened in 02/2010.

We we went we went from 70% cash and 30% seller financing to 80% seller financing and 20% cash. And the moment we came out of that, everyone and their brother paid off their loans. Right? Because they had money. They just didn't choose to spend it all.

So that's often, it's often more like a a conservative person doesn't wanna but that's the same thing. I I I came driving here with my sports car. I I I finally, after twenty two years in the in the business, I could have afforded that car twenty years ago, but I chose it to buy it now. I have a Porsche nine eleven convertible. And so Oh, yeah.

Steve: It's parked right here when I when I drove in.

Jack: Yeah. Exactly. That's that's that's I love that car. It's it's my toy. At age 51 last year, I finally bought myself that toy, and I love it.

So bottom line is though, did I paid cash?

Steve: I imagine not. No. Yeah.

Jack: First of all, the interest rate is super low. But secondly, no. Because I can use that cash for other things

Steve: Which provides higher return.

Jack: Which provides higher returns. So even I didn't pay cash for it. Mhmm. Now I'm paying it off aggressively. Usually, I look around.

If I if things continue to do well, I just pay it off within a year. Usually, my cars, I don't like to carry on long long on Carlos. But initially, I always get it financed, and it's kind of the same psychology.

Steve: Sure. That makes that makes a lot of sense. So going here, pixel dust tech on Instagram. How do introverts network?

Jack: That is a question I would like to bring in my wife now for. Mhmm. Because Michelle is a is a hardcore introvert.

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: Like, Michelle is not, she she gets anxiety, clammy hands, heart racing, things like that anytime we go into any kind of social environment. Her question is always like, what do I talk to these people about? What what do I do? The answer, I think, is do you have a friend that is not an introvert? Have that person come along with you and introduce you.

The very often, I'm not the introvert of the family. So I go there. I meet people. It's like, hey. By the way, have you met my wife, Michelle?

Like, and she's like she's our CEO. She's like, she's she's doing business with us. Oh, great. And all you need as an introvert is an introduction because the hardest thing correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if you're an introvert or not.

Steve: But,

Jack: the hardest thing is is is getting that introduction. And once you start talking to somebody and you have a subject that is both of interest for both party, the parties then it actually starts rolling usually.

Steve: You you can get momentum in that conversation. So yeah. So pixel dust, I will share because I am an introvert naturally. Right? And I may not appear that way.

And to those in my family, they don't believe me when I tell them I'm an introvert. But, you know, I had, Austin McCurdy, who is a specialist in predictive index. Right? Mhmm. We look at this.

Like, okay. So according to my profile, I'm very introvert introverted, which I would agree with. I asked him, like, why if I'm an introvert, am I, like, consistently at these networking functions and this and that? He's like, it's really easy. Your desire to win is so much stronger than your desire to be comfortable

Jack: Okay.

Steve: Not talking to people. Right? So, you know, it picks it up potentially. If you have a desire to win, if you're not satisfied with your current situation, that is what should drive you, right, out there to go shake hands and this and that. The other thing too, that's something I learned, from Darren Hardy is that it doesn't require a ton of bravery.

It requires three seconds of bravery.

Jack: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? You only need to be brave for three seconds. Stick your hand out, say hi, and and then start the conversation. Right? That's what you're saying.

Once the momentum started, it's okay. Yeah. It's that initial threshold that's

Jack: the challenge. And also, I wanna add to that one thing is that you don't need don't set your expectation that you have to meet 25 people. Mhmm. Meet two every time you go there. One for that matter.

Yeah. One is enough because that person if you meet the right person, that person that introduces you to 10 more people or you have that connection is like, hey. Do you happen to know somebody that lends money? Do you happen to know a good title company? You happen to that, and that person becomes your multiplier and that introduces you to the other people you know.

Steve: Absolutely.

Jack: And the first time around you meet, you might meet another newbie that doesn't have a clue either. Right? And then, okay. Well, then you go back home. It's like but who knows?

That newbie might six months later not be a newbie anymore. Mhmm. And now you still have a good connection. And and it just do because what I understand from Michelle being an introvert is that introverts make much deeper connection with people than a non introvert. Mhmm.

Like, one of my best friends is, like, the x the the most extroverted person I ever meet. I mean, we call him the mayor because he knows freaking anyone. Wherever he goes, he owns a, an an Airbnb in Sedona. Everyone in the neighborhood three months later knew him.

Steve: Right.

Jack: We own a house in Sedona. Nobody knows us. Right? Mhmm. So it's like so the thing is but his a lot of relationships he has are very, very superficial without that being a bad word.

Right? He just he just is a fun guy to hang out with. It's not somebody you do you you discuss the meaning of life with.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Right? So as an introvert, you like to do that much more. Right? So you you make one deep connection with one person, and you maintain that. And then you next time come come to the meeting, you make another connection, and and so you grow.

Steve: Yeah. That's a great point. So I hope that helps pick with us because I'm also an introvert, but this despite what my family believes, I don't actually like to go and meet new people unless I know this network, this connection is gonna help me win.

Jack: Which, by the way, explains why it's such a good interview because introverts, they wanna know more things. They go deeper.

Steve: Mhmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's if you look at a lot of the influencers in the space, they're actually naturally introverted.

Jack: Yeah. Right?

Steve: They don't have to talk to anybody. They just have to look at a camera and start talking.

Jack: Exactly.

Steve: Lotto on YouTube. What is the most common reason people fail from flipping land?

Jack: The same reason in any real estate method is that they don't, they don't stick to it. Mhmm. Shiny penny syndrome. Like, you don't get successful by sending out a thousand letters or 5,000 letters or whatever number is once, and then don't do the steps. Like, it's it's it's it's the same thing.

But the number one area is probably, really picking picking the wrong areas and not sending out enough mail. Mhmm. That's it. Yeah. If you pick if you put some thinking into these areas and look at you you go into Zillow and you see how many properties have sold in that area about in the last six to twelve months and how many are listed.

We talk about the ratio. If you see that there's 5,000 that have sold and 30 are listed, you know, in your hypergrowth area. Right? Yeah. If you see that there's 300 listed and 300 have sold, you see you're in the balanced market.

But that's the balanced market is good. The hypergrowth area is not good. Right? So just apply some some common sense to it. Pick some areas that look like they're nicely more or less balanced.

Either way, a little bit little bit in either way is fine. It's like it's okay to have for an area where it's twice as many listed as salt as long as there's enough salt that shows activity. It's okay to have the twice as many salt as there's listed. That means there's a little bit more activity going on, but that's all okay as long as within outside of the extremes. And, and then and then pick those areas, send enough mailing out.

Like, I always say, like, if you send 50 letters out, it's a crap shot. If you take a coin and you flip it five times or 10 times, what's gonna be the outcome? You don't know. It might be 10 times head and zero tail. Mhmm.

But if you flip it a thousand times, chances are it's gonna be very close to five hundred and five hundred. Yeah. So over time, there's a lot of large numbers that as you send out enough mailing out, the natural quality of that county is gonna come out, and you're gonna get enough responses to tell you if that is a good county or not. If you send out just 50 letters, it's not gonna work.

Steve: Right. And then Chimzurim, I apologize, on Facebook wants to they're they're saying they're interested. So Okay. How would they get started?

Jack: Well, you go to landprofitfun, fun, so like having fun. Right? Landprofitfun.com. And you can download, like, a thirty day free blueprint on land flipping. It gives you a bunch of the steps.

Also, I mean, if I may say, I invite you to listen to my podcast Mhmm. Which where where there's there's different things we talk about, which is the Jack Boss show. Mhmm. So I kept it open because I wanna talk about more than just land flipping. I wanna talk about entrepreneurship.

I I wanna talk our company now between all our companies. We have 85 people in our company. So we have learned one of the other things about building a larger company and so on. So I wanna talk about that. I wanna talk, but there's a lot about land flipping in it.

Or you go to my YouTube channel, it's Jack Bosch. Mhmm. And there's actually also seven videos. Like, we call it the seven days of land flipping, where I go to the to the process steps in short ten minute videos quickly also. So you can you can learn from all of these things, but land profit fund is the best place to get started right away.

Steve: Perfect. So Lotto, follow-up question. With $10,000, available to work with, what would you recommend he do?

Jack: If you wanna invest a little bit into education, you can. Obviously, there's us. There's other people. I mean, we obviously believe we call ourselves the Harvard of land flipping. So because we are really have the most comprehensive program.

There's a lot of the people teaching out there. They're all successful teachers. A lot of them focus on the bottom end kind of properties. Like and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not the only thing in in in real estate to focus on.

Like, a lot of the teachers out there are focused on finding a 5,000 property for $500 and then selling it for $5,000 with a $500 down payment and then getting a $100 a month. That's great. But you need a ton of deals in order to make any kind of financial impact. We do anything from that. We have students making right now, we have a student that that is about to make an $800,000 profit on a deal.

Mhmm. But, that's not bad. Right? So, that's obviously a multimillion dollar property. We have students that go into land development that go, that that built all of these kind of things.

So we have much more knowledge in this. So with $10,000, you can I I would I would I would enter one of the entry level programs? But then, but then again, the majority is really on making sure you you get those counties right and do those test meetings. So if you wanted to pay pick, like, about $4,000 of that and use that on marketing, and if if you selected the counties right, there there I have a very, very high confidence rate in you having not just one, but multiple deals from that.

Steve: And then the marketing, platforms you recommend? Marketing

Jack: from the acquisition or disposition? The direct mail, we

Steve: Or I guess is is it only it's predominantly direct mail?

Jack: Yes. We have predominantly direct mail. Can you do can you do cold call and things like that? Yes. I'm not a big fan of it because all the lawsuits and things that you get for it and and and email goes into spam and so on.

But, some students on a smaller scale are seeing success by doing that too. So if you have experience cold call, you can add that to it too, of course. But, at your own risk, because, again, there's people out there just waiting for being cold called and then suing people for it.

Steve: They are. They're evaluating really well with that.

Jack: Yeah. And I'm sure you're familiar with that. And I am. And so the marketing thing, we we use, DataTree. Mhmm.

But we have a master account with them in our software. So for those that subscribe to our software, they can actually add on a little account to it and then pull directly from DataTree. But any of these if you already have a subscription, one of the data services by now, most of them have land data. Mhmm. Like, two years ago, most of them did not have land data.

Now land is starting to become sexy, actually. And and a lot of these services are starting to add land data.

Steve: I never thought I would live to the see the day or hear the day where land is sexy. I

Jack: am excited about it.

Steve: Yeah. So one thing I wanna talk to you about is, we have a mutual friend who he shared with me, over over, breakfast one day. He said, Steve, I want you to know in this next recession, something's gonna happen. I've been around for decades now, and so there's two things that happen. A, your competition in wholesaling, they're gonna like, a good chunk of them gonna disappear.

Jack: Yeah.

Steve: That's not really a surprise. Right? B, a good chunk of your guru friends are gonna disappear.

Jack: I know who you're talking about to set that job. Right? Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So I wanted to get your perspective on this because I am looking around, and the landscape has changed on the wholesaling side, but also on the education side Mhmm. Much faster than I anticipated. Mhmm. So what is your perspective on all that?

Jack: I 100% agree. Mhmm. There is a lot of one trick ponies out there on the wholesaling side of things that learned one thing, one way that basically on the wholesaling side to my understanding was go offer close to market value and then sell it to the, to the ebuyers Mhmm. To the big hedge funds and so on. The hedge funds stopped buying as they understand they're starting to buy now again, but they stopped buying.

And with that, they were, like, left stranded because with the pants down because they had not a way. They never learned any additional skills to sell their property. They never built up a buyers list. They never built up the network. They never build out any kind of other strategies to sell these properties to.

Yeah. So a lot of them disappeared, and they're now struggling. Some of them have come to us and now learning land flipping because, obviously, that's a strategy that continued to work. On the guru side of things, it's the exact same thing. I mean, is is there's a lot of wholesaling will never go away, but I've seen it since 2007.

There was there was there was guys that were back then, it was short sales. Mhmm. Everyone and their brother started selling short sales. Well, all the short sale guys went out of the business. Either out of the business, we had to pivot, and all of a sudden, they became the wholesale guys.

All of a sudden, they became the luxury home guys. All of a sudden, they became these guys. And and I I I don't know how many times you can switch your career without until you lose credibility on the market because you cannot become the expert in five different things over the matter of seven years and become the world's most expert in those things because there's just not enough time to do enough deals of that kind to to become the expert. So there's a lot of people that if you see that somebody switches gears from from from one technique to the next, year after year, every two years, that's a big alarm signal. Unless, of course, they have such a huge organization or such a huge operation that that they actually are doing everything, but nobody does that.

Steve: So you're having doubts that they've got the ten thousand hours of mastery every single year.

Jack: 100%.

Steve: You're in, you're out. They got additional ten thousand hours of mastery in a different field.

Jack: Yes. That's that's just not gonna happen. Yeah. So, so I agree with that. And and you see that fallout happen.

I mean, I've now we have now been in the teaching industry since 2007. The there's a handful of people that have been there in 2007 that I can think of. Everyone else is a completely different people.

Steve: Yeah. Nice job. What are you doing? I guess, as far as, as as a person with multiple businesses Mhmm.

Jack: What

Steve: are you doing right now to adjust in this market, and what are your plans for the next twelve months?

Jack: Alright. The nice part about land flipping is that we already went through a recession through it. And and we went through a brutal recession with it. Mhmm. 2008, when rural said prices in many markets fell by as much as 80%, 80%, it it took land with it, of course.

Right?

Steve: Yeah.

Jack: And what we were able to realize in that time is, first of all, there was a little bit of what we call a time of a gap. And the gap is the time when the sellers still think we are pre recession, so they want the high prices. And the buyers already realized we're post recession or in the recession, and the buyers are now offering half price.

Steve: It's always that way. Never seems like the No.

Jack: It never never works the other way around. Well, actually, unless it's a fake, there's actually 2021 and '20 was a little bit like their express. It went up so fast that you could still buy and a month later, like, the longer you hold the property, the more money you make. Right? Yeah.

But, but right now, this this is this this there was about a six month period in in 2007. But an interesting thing happened is that there's two kinds of land. There's the big development land and then there's the land that we're talking about, which is the infillots, the the the privately owned smaller lots, not development land, but then also the recreational land. The land that the individual John Doe is interested in buying. The big industrial land is actually a leading indicator.

Like, the big builders. The big builders, they have a certain visibility, again, which I learned from Collective Genius from one of the Frank Kava there who used to work for a for a big builder. And he basically says that in 2006, when the market was still absolutely on fire, from one day to the next, they realized that their foot traffic on their model homes for these big developers went down by, like, 90%. There were auctions and people went crazy to buy these houses. And within literally a month, it went away.

Mhmm. And I was like and and that's when he knew that the real estate boom was over. And that's one of the reason I'm part of a group like that because when when we were in this boom right now, I asked like, hey. Who has connections to a builder? Why do you see foot traffic?

Why do you see those things? Because that is a leading indicator. The moment and the builders see that, and that's the moment they stop buying large tracts of land. Because they can tell, like, okay, the boom is over. Let's stop because we're at the peak of the market.

Let's not buy these pieces of land anymore. So the big multimillion dollar development land, they stop trading and that they stop moving six to twelve months before the world realizes that we're at the end of the boom. Mhmm. Interestingly, though, the land that we flip is a is a lagging indicator because we're buying from the end buyer. We're buying we're selling.

Sorry. We're selling to the end buyer. And the end buyer only stops buying when he literally feels it in his own pocket. And they feel it in the pocket usually, there's a recession. Every employer holds on to their employees for as long as they can, and they're only gonna let them go when they have to, which is usually about nine to twelve months afterwards.

So when the big recession happened, 02/1978, the recession happened, but the big layoffs only started in 02/1989 or, like, started a little bit later. So what happens is when people started getting laid off, that's when the buyer started pulling back. Right? So, yes, did we have less buyers during that time? Yes.

Did prices fall? Yes. Prices did fall. But we still had enough buyers to continue doing what we're doing because when you put properties under under contract at 10¢ on a dollar, and before you were selling them at 65¢ on a dollar, but now price has gone down, you only have to sell them at 40¢ on a dollar, life is still pretty good.

Steve: Yeah. Life is still So

Jack: in essence, what we ended up doing, we ended up dropping your prices. Our margins got got compressed. Instead of making $35,000 deal, we made only $15,000 on a deal. But we were able to stay in business very, very successfully. And then also more people want seller financing.

So that was another effect. But then also what it meant after a little bit of adjustment, we just simply dropped our purchase prices. So instead of buying something for or putting on a contract for $20,000 and selling it for 50, we would take a similar lot and now offer $7,000 and sell it for 20.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: Alright. So still the same model continued working for us. That's why we don't really have to make many adjustments other than, we obviously are careful other than what we're seeing right now is then the trend goes again to a little bit more seller financing because the the buyers as we potentially are already or who knows what kind of weirdest recession we've ever been in right now. The restaurants are full. The airlines are full.

Steve: Everything is full. The malls are full.

Jack: The malls are full.

Steve: Park anywhere.

Jack: But we are in a recession. So who who I I haven't fully understood it yet. Yeah. But but what we're seeing is just a little bit there's a trend to work people being a little bit more cautious. And, again, they're vent they're wanting more seller financing.

So our triple close comes in. So we're what the way we're doing is we're pulling more land more note buyers around us because a lot of our students have a ton of money. They like the notes. So there we are we're building up an a bigger pool of note buyers around us so that we can do those more advanced creative finance triple closes where if somebody buys a property, sells a property, and sells a note all in the same day, and that solves a problem for our students, very, very elegantly.

Steve: So going back to and and that's very thorough. So going back to Jack, the individual, right, because you're taking the the the money you're making here on the land side, the education side, and you're buying multifamily. What is your,

Jack: Oh, can I say one extra thing? I forgot. Sorry. That before I forgot it, there's actually there's another thing. I am 100% convinced that this time around, land will not see a recession.

And the reason for that is very simply that there's two massive factors that did not exist last time around. Factor number one is 45, 48% of all Americans still work from home. That that has given that if you look at the numbers, we have 332,000,000 Americans here. Half of them work. It's a 150,000,000, let's say, a 160,000,000.

Of those 45%, that's like, roughly speaking, 70,000,000 people. So 70,000,000 families, not all of them are can fully move around because one might be tied to a job, the other one tied to a location, the other one not. But tens of millions of people have now the ability to live where they want and work where they want. And not everyone wants to live in a cookie cutter neighborhood. So there there's a lot of people that come on the market.

When COVID started, houses went on the market like went like this, but land did too and land has not come down. Houses have come down. Land has not come down. Because we constantly see that the demand where people like, hey. I wanna have those five acres out there.

Yeah. I wanna have this this 20 acres out there. And then there's a second thing. Skylink. Have you heard of Skylink?

Or, Oh,

Steve: you're talking about the Internet from

Jack: Internet. Yeah. Elon Musk's Yeah. Network of Starlink. Yes.

Exactly. Starlink. Yeah. Did I say Skylink? I said Skylink.

I meant Starlink. I'm sorry. Yes. Star, Starlink, Starlink. Right?

Yes.

Steve: I think so.

Jack: Let's get it right. Yeah. You're you're right. Starlink, the the Internet the the Internet company that now, for the first time ever, really, provides it's still expensive, but it's affordable expensive. It's not thousands of dollars.

It's it's hundreds of dollars. Allows you to have Internet in places that you never had Internet before. So before, moving, like, anyone wanting to set up shop with an RV, with solar panels, with Internet out two hours away from town was just impossible. You went there for the weekend, but yet to be back Sunday night because if if you wanna be on a conference call Monday morning, you couldn't. Now you can.

You can be parking there. You set up your little mirror thing. You connect us to all of these Starlink, servers, like little satellites out in the world, and you have full blown Internet in the freaking middle of nowhere. That did not exist. Now you combine those things.

Millions of people now have the ability to live where they want to live and you have the ability to be wherever you want and have full blown Internet access. We have people now moving away from town and moving into rural areas and living that space life that they want. There's a Facebook group with over 400,000 people that all want to go back to the land. Really? But they don't wanna all live off the land.

They still wanna have a computer job where they can be a programmer somewhere, but on five acres with some chickens and a cow and a goat. Right? That's kind of their lifestyle. 400,000 people, and they all wanna fulfill their their dream of, and their dream of, living off the grid in a way, somewhat off the grid. And they couldn't do it before.

Mhmm. Now they can.

Steve: Yeah. That's very

Jack: These are big, huge demographic pushes and technology pushes that have come together that are pushing land more than we've ever seen before. So as a result, I'm 100%, sure that we are not seeing any we're not going to see anything, in decline of values and decline of, of of demand like houses are seen or houses seized every once in a while.

Steve: Yeah. That makes total sense. What adjustments are you making in buying multifamily right now with the environment that we're in?

Jack: Oh, huge. Huge, thanks. First of all, I have left in a we're switching completely gear right now, but that's fine. In an environment that since 2016, when we went into multifamily, we we we bought really where the numbers made sense.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: We have left almost all the markets, the secondary and tertiary markets, because from what I understand, when the market comes down on multifamily, all but the primary markets, the top demand the the top top markets in the country are being crushed.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jack: And not so much from a rental perspective, but, yeah, rents go down and, like, in this tertiary smaller cities. It's sexy while everyone is well, everything is sexy, but it's not when it's not. Right? So we have sold our properties in Oklahoma City, a secondary market. We have sold properties in other markets, very good at the height of the market.

And right now, we're only focusing on on two cities, basically, or two markets. One is Florida, one is, Arizona, and a little bit of Texas. And only there are the top markets very simply because we're looking at demographic movements. Those are the markets where people are moving towards. And what you also see, unfortunately, through due to high interest rates and high cost of lending, unless you already started building new multifamily products, every building activity has stopped right now.

Nobody's building. Nobody's getting the right loans. Nobody's getting, nobody nobody's willing to take those risks. Nobody knows what the environment is gonna look like by the time that their project is done, so everyone has stopped. Well, that's that's okay unless cities like Phoenix still getting 75,000 people a year moving towards.

Mhmm. Where there's no building activity, what's that gonna do to their rental prices?

Steve: It's gonna skyrocket.

Jack: They're gonna continue to go up. Yep. So I'm only buying in Phoenix. I'm only buying in Tampa. This happened to be two markets that I really want.

I'm only buying in a couple of other cities, of The United States because they all have that in common. Yeah. Everything else, I'm I'm not buying in little town Texas or something that has stagnating part that was sexy for a little bit, but a stagnating population grow no population growth because it's just not gonna go anywhere. So I'm very, very careful with that. Remodeling very, very conservative.

We're only buying also value add properties. So in that environment, we can't just rely on rents going up because of these demographic things. Something might stop that like another COVID for a little bit. But instead, we're only also buying properties in those same environments that we can push the rents through active upgrades. So we bought 45 units.

It's a smaller one. We typically like larger ones than that. 48 45 units in Phoenix that is still on a boiler and chiller. Like, boiler and chiller is basically there's one big air condition and one big heater for the entire property that's under their last leg, and we're converting everything in individual air conditioned units, which allows us to that alone allows us to raise rents by, like, a $150. K.

And things like that plus, there's lots of things to do. So that's the thing. So it's a we're in an environment where rents are going to go up. There's no other way. And on top of it, we have active ways to push rents even more.

That makes us really secure and safe that we know that we know we can deliver a great return on our on our investors' money because we have investors in that deal. But also, we have put $800,000 of our own money into that own deal. So our our our deals are our interests are aligned 100% with our investors. Because if if if they lose, we lose. Right.

We lose our own money, so we would never do that. So that's kind of the adjustments we do. We have leftist tertiary markets. We underwrite extremely carefully, and we only go in markets that are that where we know there's pressure on their rents as well as where we know that that we can that we can force appreciation already anyway.

Steve: Yeah. Oh, it makes total sense. Good to know. And I was asking that question selfishly for myself.

Jack: Sure.

Steve: So, Blade, on YouTube. I have 65,000 saved in a money market account. Where should I put it to grow it?

Jack: Not in the money market account. I'm not a financial adviser. I I like what Warren Buffett says, which is, diversification is stupid. Diversification has is an is a is a passive strategy. It's a strategy to risk to mitigate risk.

It's not a strategy to maximize growth.

Steve: Right.

Jack: So instead, he says, like, Warren Buffett has all his acts in one basket, which is the stock market and companies, and he just watches that basket really, really closely. And he is also an expert at that basket. Mhmm. Every time I invest in the stock market, I lose money. Last time I invested was right before it tanked.

Lost, like, not that much, but I lost, like, probably $30. Mhmm. Right? Like, I'm just an idiot from the stock market. I just can't can't figure that thing out.

So what do I do? I focus what works for us every single time real estate. I'm good at it. I've now twenty two years of experience on it. I know my my lane, though.

I have multifamily land. That's what we do. And some some single families that we still hold. Right? But that's that's my that's my jam.

That's my thing. That's what I know inside out. And if somebody brings me a deal that's a RV park, it's like, great. I know nothing about it. No.

Yeah. Like, it's just, so so that's the thing. So if your industry if you have 65, you can invest it in yourself. You can invest it into land flipping. Make please do me a favor though that if you do, you go all in.

There's no such thing like trying because the word trying includes includes the failure in it. Mhmm. Trying means if you say the word try, I'll try this, well, you're really saying, like, I will give this a try. Give this an attempt, but in the worst case, I can always revert back to to what I'm already doing. That's not a sick that's not a that's not a method to success.

That is a method for failure. If you say, like, when you say, I'm gonna use that money to invest in myself, to invest into the system, invest in the things, and come hell or high water, I'm gonna make that work, then you are going to reach out to your mentors, to your coaches, to your things until you figured it out. And then there's no more other strategy, and that's how that's how you have succeeded. That's how we have succeeded. We don't we don't we don't set something up.

Well, let's give it a try. No. It's like I I interviewed for my podcast. It's not yet released the podcast. I interviewed two of our students that came into our program.

They basically said, this is this makes sense. I can see how it works. And they spent the first six months right now putting every single system and automation in place, gotten they have, I think, something like 10 deals under contract. They haven't even sold a deal yet. They're like, we're not focusing on sales yet.

We're focusing on business systems. And right now, they hired the sales guy within the first three days. He sold three properties. So now they're optimizing the sales piece, and their goal is to still do a million dollars a year this year. They're gonna be at a million dollars this year because they're setting up the right way.

But what I mean is the reason I interviewed them even though they are not yet making a million dollars is because the mindset that they came up with came into this was just like, this we're not trying this. We're going to take the money a certain amount of money. We're going to invest it in optimizing every single part of the system, and then we're gonna turn the flip switch on, and we're gonna go, like, boom and start making hundreds of thousand dollars a month. Yeah. And, I mean, not everyone can do that, but it shows that mindset of all in.

Yeah. Not the mindset of, like, yeah. Let's try.

Steve: Yeah. I'm committed. Yeah. Yeah. Alright.

So, I want you to think about the last thoughts we wanna leave the listeners with. Guys, if you got value today, please subscribe. Right? Do not keep us a secret. Help us reach more people.

And, we do again have that announcement coming up a week from today, so keep an eye out on for that. And we got part of the disruption tomorrow, so So definitely tune back in tomorrow. So what are some of the last thoughts you like to leave everybody with?

Jack: We talked about so many different things. It's like, it's like, it was a lot of fun. The last thought I might have is since the questions we've gotten were were more questions from from people there, like, perhaps at the beginning part of their journey Mhmm. What worked for us really, really well was particularly since at the beginning of the interview, I talked about us trying this and trying that and trying this and trying that and then finally stumbling into something that worked for us. The lesson I learned from that was that what worked really, really well for us is to take, start our journey start your journey with something that you can that you can wrap your arms around, that you can understand, and that is not so complicated that it doesn't that it that it demotivates you or that you can get burned with it and things like that.

Because, like, that first house flip deal, like, that first deal in in Garfield District, there was a triplex actually. If we would have done the next logical thing, which is to buy it ourselves and rehab it, with what I know today, I know we would have probably lost a $100 on that deal that we didn't even have. We would have had a we would have lost just our shirts. And we probably would have been so much burned from that deal that we would have never touched real estate ever again. Instead though, we backed out of the deal and we over multiple other hurdles came to land flipping.

And land flipping was so simple and was so low risk or no risk because even now in our contract, you can back out anytime for any reason. You have nothing at stake that we're like, okay. We can handle that. And even though we knew nothing about real estate, over those first ten, twenty, fifty, hundred, by now 4,500 deals, we have learned so much about real estate that then the next step into single families and then the next step into multifamilies wasn't hard anymore. Mhmm.

Right? We started with something that we could understand as complete idiots and complete beginners early on. We could understand, we could implement, we could make money with. And then from there, now we're pulling we're pulling off We raised 8 and a half million dollars for two apartment complex deals in the last three months.

Steve: Wow.

Jack: I would have never thought I would ever been able to do that. If somebody would have come to me with that deal, I would have been screaming and running the other way early on because it would have blown up my ability of understand even the slightest aspect of it. Because multifamily is very, very complicated. If if you've really gone into the nitty gritty of it, particularly financials and things like that, there's ways to hide to hide all kinds of stuff in the financials. So you gotta ease yourself into that.

So I I recommend if you're a beginning student, start with something that you can do. Start with something that is like, you know what? I understand it. I like it. I think I'll enjoy this.

Let me go after that and then build from there because you automatically will learn about title issues and title companies and financing and loans and all the stuff will come naturally. And soon enough, you look back and you pull up that first notebook, that that first book that you ever had and you'll be, like, smiling and endearingly, like, kindly smiling on your old self while thinking that, oh my god. Can't believe how little I knew back then and how much I have learned since then.

Steve: You saw that book? Yeah. I think They should do a video about that.

Jack: I should. Yes.

Steve: I have

Jack: it in my bookshelf. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Perfect. Alright. So if someone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do that?

Jack: Well, very simply, I do my own social media. So you can send me a direct message on Facebook. It's Jack Bosch. You can send me a direct message on Instagram. It's Jack Bosch.

You can send me I don't even know what TikTok does it. I'm Jack Bosch on TikTok too. You can do our you can you can, you can simply go to land land profit fund again. You can that that's probably the best ways. Or you can go to landpropergenerator.com, and there's a phone number you can call our team and and leave a message with them too.

Steve: Alright. Perfect. Thank you so much.

Jack: Thank you very much for having me. Thank you

Steve: guys all for watching. Make sure you guys hit that subscribe button, and we'll see you guys tomorrow for part of the disruption.