Full Transcript
23948 words
Full Transcript
23948 words
Speaker 0: I was like obsessed with it because I was like, wow, I can keep making money. Like, this is so fun. For sure, it's selling houses on chair lifts, camping, backcountry skiing. Like, you know, just all these random places, but it's because I put in that work my first, you know, three to six months, which is like the biggest part. So I got in a bad, biking accident, got hit by a car, and I was out of work for, like, a year.
After being in the hospital, I was like, how'd I get here? And they're like, you wouldn't let the ambulance take you. Because I knew how much it cost. Yeah. So I lost, like, literally a $100,000.
But,
Speaker 1: the best hire we ever made was the first hire. Somehow, I don't know how we got lucky, if it was fate, what it was, but this guy Ryan Hamill was the first time we ever made it. Since '23, we doubled every year. It was crazy. So '23, '24, we doubled, and then '20, '4, '25.
Speaker 2: Doubled again. Yeah. 2 mil, 1 mil.
Speaker: Yeah. K.
Speaker: Got it. Okay.
Speaker: The whole marketing budget just so we paid for it. Like, we changed. Yeah. I mean, this is another I mean, I think it never even kinda clicked for me until now, but, like
Speaker: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have Michael Yankee with Vertigo and Carly Staggie with Flipfund Capital. And Michael flew in from West Palm, Florida and Harley from Denver, Colorado. Talk about how they made an extra $3,000,000 in 2025 changing just one thing. Guys, I'm gonna make sure to create millionaires.
The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. You'll take consistent action. You will become one. And right now you got a 100,000, 250,000, maybe even more just sitting right now inside your CRM. Resurrect all your old and dead leads with the objection proof AI calling agent.
Text cash to the phone number 33777 to unlock all that money that's just hanging out inside your CRM. Ready?
Speaker: I'm good.
Speaker: Alright. So we talked about, you know, on a mission to create millionaires, if you take consistent action, you'll become one. My understanding is you've been listening for the show for quite some time. Yeah. And you're one of the success stories.
Speaker: I I guess, yeah, you could say I'm a success story. Yeah. I think. We're I mean, I never it's kinda one of those things where it's like you never. I I don't consider myself that yet.
Yeah. And I it's like the the bar always moved. Mhmm. And I was saying We're
Speaker: always moving the goal post. That's for that's for sure.
Speaker: Posts are always moving. So it's like I think it's interesting. It's like, if there's people that are new that listen to this, I don't know how I even stumbled across it five years ago or six years ago. Yeah. I listened to it every day almost while I was at my corporate job, like, trying to figure out how to get out of that.
Mhmm. And then when Cara was like, yeah. Steve wants us to go on, I was like, this is crazy. I've never met Steve and, like, you know, she's obviously met you.
Speaker: But Yeah. So let's talk about what was your life like before you got into real estate?
Speaker: So I got out of college. I went to Elon. Got out of college in well, I went to North Carolina Elon, North Carolina. If anyone doesn't know that where that is. I got out of college, went right into, like, a commission only role because I like the uncapped, you know, the thought of just chasing, eating, you know, eating what you kill, kinda get paid what you're worth type of thing.
Yeah. Went there, loved the guys I was working for, loved the, like, the whole team, but just didn't like the product, didn't, like, understand it. It just didn't get me going. Knew I wanted to go in investment real estate.
Speaker: Before that, what what was the product?
Speaker: It was, like, wealth management, life insurance type of stuff like that. It's, you know, financial services. Yeah. It was a MassMutual company. It was called Baystate Financial.
Mhmm. The guy that owned it, was he actually got me into college. Like, I shouldn't have gotten into that college. I owe him a lot. His name's Dave Porter.
Oh. And still to this day, like, one of my role models. But it just didn't it wasn't, like, a good fit. And it was funny because he's, like, you know, he fired me. Right?
And it was, like, it was a it was a nice firing, but it was, like, he knew I didn't like it. I knew I wasn't in the right place. I was young, and I didn't want to go to him and say I don't like this, and I'm done. So he called me in and said I'm firing you, but I'm gonna help you out. So did that, and I always tell that to people, like, guys that come to our company now, and I'm like, look, I got fired from my first job.
Right? It's like, you don't know what you're gonna do when you get out of college.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Went to the next thing was, like, I wanted to go into investment real estate. There was something about it that I just thought I understood or, you know, the tangible part about it was, like, I didn't understand stocks. It didn't really didn't interest me. So I went to a company called Arbor Realty Trust, which is a commercial mortgage rate, and I was screening, you know, screening agency, you know, Fannie Mae multifamily loans for them. Great team there.
Fun guys. I talked to them to this day. But it just wasn't first of all, I wasn't very good at it. So, you know, my attention to detail was not where it needed to be. Anybody there will tell you that.
Speaker: Has that gotten better?
Speaker: It's gotten better in different aspects, but not like I think it actually has. Yeah. Like, now that I it's my money that I'm, you know, looking at it, so I definitely think I, yeah, probably pay a little more attention. I get unheard of attention to details. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm worse.
Speaker: I don't know if you're worse, but so then I and then actually, I while I was there was when I had started listening to, like, your podcast and other podcasts, Sean Terry, like, that kind of stuff. And just ended up driving for dollars, found a deal with one of the guys that works for us now and runs the Raleigh office, this kid Ryan Koenig. And if he didn't push me, I don't know that I ever would have gotten into it, really.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Yeah. I actually don't think I woulda he said, just make the call. You know, we were we were writing down addresses and stuff, and he's like, just pick the phone up and make the call.
Speaker: You know? I don't
Speaker: know if I'm allowed to swear on here, but there is some. But, and then so a lot of credit. You know, I always credit him like, I don't know if I would have picked that phone up if you'd, you know, you know.
Speaker: So you're driving for dollars. Yep. Calling people.
Speaker: Yep. Writing down addresses. So I I we the first deal we found was, in our hometown. Mhmm. And we found the deal.
We, you know, we had written down a ton of addresses. Like, we'd go out after five to nine at night and just write a I still have the notes app on my phone with, like, the pictures of the houses and the address. Yeah. And we'd write them down, and then we'd call them, and then I'll never forget. Like, it was during COVID.
So that was COVID kinda opened the window to do stuff during the day from home that I wouldn't have been able to do in the tower in Boston, like, you know, when I was doing multifamily loans.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so we called this guy god. I'm currently gonna remember his name.
Speaker: You should know this.
Speaker: The name is so funny because he was, like, this engineer. And and you had talked about this on your podcast too. Like, my mom is in sales. She told me that she's, like, engineers are the hardest people to sell to
Speaker: because
Speaker: they cross t's, dot i's, and they don't miss anything. Mhmm. And they just care about all the littlest things that don't actually maybe matter.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And the guy was an engineer, and so it took, like, forever to get the deal done. We ended up, you know, by the skin of our teeth getting it done on the last day of an inspection and, like, had to get a price reduction. It's kind of a funny story. Like, we're walking around the house. We don't even know what we're doing.
We're, like, we have iPads, like, walking around. You know? And, this Turkish guy, Baris Burke, he comes in, you know, like a bat out of hell, and he's like, I'll buy it tomorrow. Give me you know? And if we had showed all these people this house at this point, and that guy showed me a lot about sales as well after we sold the deal to him.
Mhmm. But then it was like, we can't do this at scale. We can't be driving around, writing addresses down, and calling it. Like, this is just there's no way to scale this thing or do multiple get out of my job. And so we ended up doing it in Pueblo, Colorado.
And then Completely different state. Completely different state, but it was Okay. The the thought process was if I can do it without driving
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: And I'm two hours behind from five to nine in the morning, I can work and get all the, like, admin crap done to come up with the lists and make the,
Speaker: you
Speaker: know, with all the phone numbers. And then at nine to five, I can make the calls while it's three to seven in Pueblo. Yeah. And everyone was doing Denver. She was in Denver, and, like, I figured just barrier to entry would be lower in a smaller market.
Speaker: Right. In that
Speaker: in Ontario, an hour and a half outside of that was like a video I watched or something. Yeah. That was how it started. And then it's just then three years later, my business partner now in Adav Klein.
Speaker: Well, so let's Yeah. Before we do that Sure. So let's talk about yourself.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How
Speaker: did you what was your life like before you got into real estate?
Speaker: Yeah. I have a similar ish beginning and then and then very different. So I went to Ohio State, was always thought I would go more into finance, added ended up adding on real estate as a major as well just because I didn't wanna graduate early. I like to add on something else. Mhmm.
Went out after college, end up working in corporate finance, JPMorgan, Marriott International, and I hated it. I hated just making the same amount of money every single day no matter how much I was working. When I was at Marriott, I would, like, come in the office some days at, like, five in the morning. We'd be there till, like, 2AM some days. It was just, like, miserable.
And I'm like, why are we doing this and making the same amount of money? And just sitting behind and I saw a spreadsheet all day, like, didn't make sense to me. And I know I wasn't, like, actually, like, bettering the company or anyone, you know, or myself. And decided I wanna get back into real estate. Didn't wanna go the commercial route.
It was, like, right when COVID was starting. And I knew the only thing that was really, like, kind of
Speaker: Sorry. Can you adjust that mic Yeah. Down just a little bit? Yeah.
Speaker: Is that better? Yeah. I realized that the only thing that was really going well with commercial real estate was, like, warehouses, and I didn't really have interest in that. And then I never wanted to do residential. I think I didn't want, like, the I don't know if I didn't want the emotional side of it or what it was, but I just had no interest in it.
Mhmm. Found New Western. Honestly, I had no idea what wholesaling was. Was really intrigued by it, though. Called, like, a ton of people, really vetted a bunch of people kinda before going over there just because it was so foreign to me.
Speaker: You're vetting whether New Western is a place to work at?
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: The idea of wholesaling or, like
Speaker: Both.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: It was both. I didn't really know as much about wholesaling. Obviously, I did a lot of, like, research on it. You know, caught other people at other companies as well just, like, within the industry. And then, yeah, then a bunch of people there too.
And eventually came over, was the best decision I ever made. It was awesome. I loved it. First year, I just became obsessed with it. Like, I was, like, working twenty four seven.
You know, I did it was, like, right under 90 deals in, like, my first year just selling. Wow. And, yeah, I was this was 2020. 2021 then. I started 2020, so my first, like, full year, 2021.
Yeah. I just was, like, addicted to it. I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. Like, the more you can work, the more you, like, get paid. You know?
Speaker: Like the way it works there is, like, you gotta go build your book of business.
Speaker: Yeah. Fully from scratch. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was fully from scratch.
And, which was fun. You know? And then it becomes a lot of referrals and all that. I think I think the biggest thing with I mean, I would always tell that guys too at Vertigo. You know?
Your first three to six months can be the absolute hardest if you make it, and you should. Because then after that, you are just, like, cruising.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Like, I eventually like, I, like, literally, for the first ninety days to six months, I was, like, working twenty four seven. Like, my roommates would always be like, you're just, like they would have friends over, and they'd be like, she's just that girl that's in the basement working all the time. And I was, like, obsessed with it because I was like, wow. I can keep making money. Like, this is so fun.
Mhmm. And I, like, loved it. You know? And you saw, like, the tangibility of it. You made friends with your investors, and it was just fun.
And, then after that, you know, then you start cruise sailing. You can kinda do it from wherever. I started selling houses on chairlifts, camping, backcountry skiing. Like, you know, just all these random places, but it's because I put in that work at first, you know, three to six months, which is, like, the biggest part. So,
Speaker: that was in Ohio?
Speaker: No. This was in Colorado.
Speaker: In Colorado.
Speaker: Okay. Yeah. This was in Denver. And then So
Speaker: you started in Denver?
Speaker: Started in Denver.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yep. Yep. And then, did that until I left there in 2023. Some things kinda started changing. I actually got in a bad biking accident, got hit by a car, and I was out of work for, like, a year.
It was really bad, like, brain injury. Yeah. And when I came back, I just, like, wasn't just a lot of things kinda changed. I was just kind of, like, wanting something different. It's kind of a lot of different things going on.
So I left, kinda broke off with a few other guys, kinda did our own thing for a bit. That's when I kinda started doing some assignments, which we can kinda talk about because New Western always double closed. And then, met I his business partner at Adobe, I used to work with at New Western too. And then, partnered up with Mike and, eventually came over with them at the end of twenty twenty four.
Speaker: So so you're so you start off on your own solo, and you're crushing it right at the gate. You had no partners.
Speaker: No. No. No. I started at New Western.
Speaker: Yeah. But yeah. New Western, but, like
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, like, you
Speaker: got your own book of business. Like, you're not you're not, like, attacking a list for somebody else. It's just like
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And just for everyone that doesn't know, because, like, I personally like, you know, the founders of New Western. Yeah.
Speaker: But Oh, great.
Speaker: There are a lot of people that
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Don't like Yeah. Yeah. New Western. So Yeah. For those that don't know, like, what were you actually responsible for at New Western?
Speaker: Yeah. That's a good question. So they split it up, which is kinda similar model to how we had vertigo with. There's a sales team, the dispositions team, and acquisitions team. So they have it fully separated there.
Okay? So you always start in sales. There's a few people that start in acquisitions. Honestly, it never works out. It just it just doesn't.
It's just a great way to learn the business coming in through sales. You have a whole
Speaker: sales, you mean dispositions?
Speaker: Dispositions. K. So you have the whole acquisitions team that, you know, are finding the properties. On the acquisition side too, they also, like, don't really pay for marketing. A lot of it's just relationship based, buying in the MLS, all these different other different ways.
Like, you put your pretty much on your own. Okay? But in Denver, we had a pretty strong acquisitions team at the time. You know, they're putting out deals to me. And then my job as a sales agent was to, you know, just go sell it to investors.
Right? So I'm getting the deal. It's getting pitched to me, and then I have to go pitch it out and sell it to investors. Eventually, I also did acquisitions, and I was kinda doing both for a little bit. But, the first year that I was talking about, that was, like, strictly just sales.
Speaker: And then the way it works is do they give you, like here's a list of buyers. You go, like, make friends with them. Or
Speaker: No. So, I mean, there's obviously some, like, old ones in the system, right, that you can always, like, call through. But they're really just teaching you how to find these buyers. It's funny looking back at that now because, you know, know, the people that end up working on the Vertigo, like, Mike was never licensed. And, you know, a lot of people aren't licensed.
They're using investor lift in these other different platforms where I didn't even know what that was. Like, we are solely MLS. You know, we ought to be licensed, and I just did everything on the MLS to find my buyers. You know, I'd go through each one that was the best way find them was literally just reserve reverse searching people that actually had flips in these areas. Right?
And getting really creative with it. It was kinda funny because at the time, no one was really using social media in Denver. Like, even at, you know, other wholesalers and definitely not at New Western, like Facebook, Craigslist. Sounds like a weird one, but there's, you know, so many buyers on there. That's how I ended up getting my biggest buyer was I kept trying to call him, and he wouldn't answer me.
And then he finally called me on one of my Craigslist post Mhmm. And end up having a meeting with him, which you always have to have a meeting with someone at New Western, like an in person or a video meeting with someone to, like, qualify them and get them on your list. You can't just go sell a property to anyone. You just call.
Speaker: You gotta disclose them.
Speaker: Disclose them.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: So I had to disclose
Speaker: Disclose what? You disclose
Speaker: them to work with you. So it's basically saying, hey. You know, like, let's let's say, I call you, I'm trying to get you to work with me. I'll say, hey. I have to you basically have to sign saying, you know, I'm not gonna go behind your back.
I'm not gonna, you know, go directly to sellers. I'm not gonna
Speaker: Circumvent the whole thing.
Speaker: Circumvent everything. It's it's essentially what it's saying. You know? It's it's like it looks scary. It's really not.
You know? When you when you break it out,
Speaker: Well, it's not scary at all. It's just for me, this looks like it sounds like a buyer consult Exactly. As a realtor.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. But it but it's not. They can still that's what a lot of agents don't come to us and be like, well, can I not work with other people? I'm like, no.
You can still find properties however you want. I don't care. You can go buy one from someone else the exact same day. That's fine. You know?
So that was never yeah. I mean, that that was probably one of the hardest things to, like, to get around at first. But then once you figured out how to just, like, word it to people Mhmm. And people, like, just started trusting you with it, you know, then then that was you know? It was better, I think, to do that because then you really understood what the your buyers wanted.
Like, I loved having those meetings because it's like, okay. Now I I did that hard work upfront. Yeah. That maybe took, you know, a few hours to altogether, you know, to get that person, call me a few times, disclose them, whatever. But But then after that, then when I was ready to sell to them, it's like, okay.
Now I know that they like Aurora, which is like an area in Denver, you know, under $3.50, two bed, three bath. When that pops up, you know, here we go.
Speaker: You have a relationship.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So you got into you said an accident. You're ordering your bicycle.
Speaker: Mhmm. Or biking.
Speaker: You're biking. And, like, I guess walking through that, like, you knocked unconscious, you woke up in the hospital, or, like
Speaker: Yeah. So I was, I was in the right lane. I actually was training for a triathlon at the time. It was, like, 05:36 in the morning. And I was it was it is like a busier intersection from Denver, and I was biking out to Golden if people are familiar with that.
And I wanna start from my house just to get a little bit more, you know, miles in before I kinda got onto, like, the main trail. And within the bike lane on the right side, this lady turned. She was in the right lane on the other way, turned left, and then just nailed me. I don't know if there was a car kinda blinding me as I was going, but, I mean, I was doing everything right. You know, luckily wearing a helmet and all that.
But I had, like, clip ins on my bike. Like, I, like, kinda clip my, like, shoes in. You know? Complete like, I don't remember any of it happening. Yeah.
Woke up, the hospital. It's funny. I called my roommate at the time. I remember calling her, and I asked her to come get me. And then me being so, like, we were saying stingent with money.
I'll never forget, like, after being in the hospital, I was like, how did I get here? And they're like, you wouldn't let the ambulance take you because I knew how much it cost. Have you ever heard this story?
Speaker: I've never heard this.
Speaker: Yes. So
Speaker: You will.
Speaker: Literally my friend my two friends
Speaker: Harley's a hard negotiator.
Speaker: Her and her boyfriend. I literally never they're they're like, well, they're like, well, you have to get in the ambulance. We have to check you for it. So I got it. I was like, are you gonna charge me for sitting in this ambulance?
They were like they're like, no. We won't charge you for sitting in the ambulance. I was like, okay. And I don't remember any of this, which is so funny. Not that.
And I sit in there. I say So
Speaker: this is your autopilot. Fight fight or flight.
Speaker: No. Actually, it's so classic.
Speaker: Money conscious. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: No. Actually. So I I sit I
Speaker: did not know that.
Speaker: Yeah. So you sit there. And then they're like, okay. They're like, okay. You're fine.
You go drive with your friends because it was, like, literally, like, a three minute drive to the hospital. And they're like, but we have to drive behind you the whole time. I was like, okay. Which is like I said, I don't remember this. I remember my friends being like, can you just go in the ambulance?
Like, I was like, I don't know. But it's funny because I was, like, you know, for that first, like, honestly, like, first two full weeks, I was, like, on, like, adrenaline. Like, I was in the hospital for, a few days, got out, like, tried going back to work that, like, next Monday just thinking I was, like, fine. And then it started being, like, little things. Like, I just realized that I wasn't, like, picking up on on things.
I would get really overwhelmed easily. Like, any little minor issue that would go wrong, I would, like, freak out about. And that just, like, wasn't like me. You know? I was like, okay.
Things happen all the time. It's investment real estate. Like, there's a problem with every single one of these deals.
Speaker: Like Every deal.
Speaker: Figure it out. Exactly. Like, you figure it out. But I was making it, like, the biggest deal ever in my head, and it would just, like, consume me. You know?
And then that's when I was like, okay. Something's more off. And then, you know, obviously, went to a bunch of different doctors, figured out. Yeah. I mean, I had, I had a really bad brain, like, bruise and stuff.
I didn't have any bleeding in God, which was kinda crazy. But yeah. Because I, like, completely this lady ended up talking to me after, she watched it all happen. She was, like, a a witness, and she's, like, she was a road biker. And that's the part I kind of, like, have a little flashback of is her coming up to me, and I remember her wearing biker earrings.
And I remember crying because, like, she was more shook up than me because I don't remember it happening, but she did. You know? Because she saw it. And she was, like, crying to me, and she's like, you were she goes crazy because I was clipped in. And she's like, you completely, like, flipped over the whole car, like, the top of it.
It's still attached to your bike. And when you landed, you landed then then kind of, like, fell off your bike into the road. And it's funny. Every time I pass that intersection for the past, like, two years after, I thought I was, like, on the completely other side of the road, was in this other parking lot, like the Vivint memories that I have. And then it was, like, a year ago, I was driving by with my friend who came and got me, and she's like, no.
No. No. You were, like, over there and in this slot. And I was, like, I always thought I was, like, in a completely different spot. It's just funny.
Yeah. So that was why all that was not fun, especially being a 100% commission. Yeah. $10.99, not making any money, and then losing the lady that hit me too. I learned a lot about that.
She was, like, dead broke, owed money to IRS, didn't even own a home, and, like yeah. So I lost, like, literally a $100,000, but, it was not fair.
Speaker: So You took some time off Yes. Figured things out.
Speaker: Yes. And then? And then yeah. And then that's when I, was back at New Western for a little bit, and then decided to to break off and did that for about, like, six to nine months, and then came over with, Mike and Adolph at the end of, I guess, it was, like, October September, October 2024.
Speaker: So how did you guys management there. How did you guys, end up connecting?
Speaker: It's kinda crazy, actually. Yeah. The the actually, the the circle is crazy how I end up anyway, Nadav and I connected because I would sell deals to him when he was at New Western. Okay. And then I called him to sell him a deal one day.
It was late twenty twenty two when rates had shot up. And remember the whole every investor was frozen, and they didn't know
Speaker: I remember very well. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah. It was crazy. Right? You had to, like, adapt and try to Yeah. Start doing creative stuff to make deals happen.
And sellers still thought all their houses were worth way too much.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: And I had tried to scale the business for the past three years, and I just couldn't, I just I mean, Cody Hoffine and Mark Stubler were, like, guys that kinda taught me Yeah. Some stuff. And and their model obviously works for them. It didn't wasn't working for me. And so I called Nadab, and I knew he had worked at this bigger shop.
And I was like, look. I got the business, but I don't have and I have the systems, and I have all this other stuff, but I don't I can't scale this. I've been trying to scale it. I'm pulling my hair out. You know?
This is you know how to build a team. You've worked in the model. You know, you know the model that new westerns used. Maybe this model will work if we partner up. Yeah.
And it was the best probably the best decision I ever made. It was a tough decision. It was a hard negotiation. He negotiates hard too.
Speaker: But Honestly, you're you're dealing with a guy who negotiates a lot all day every day. Yeah.
Speaker: And it was you know, we it took us probably four months to get the whole operating agreement together of, like, how it's gonna
Speaker: Four months? Yeah. I would not be able to last four months.
Speaker: Yeah. Until I get it. I mean, we we had an idea of, like, what it what it would work what it would look like, but it was and we had started working together within those four months. So it was kinda like, alright. We're gonna know if this is gonna work.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: The
Speaker: best hire we ever made was the first hire somehow. I don't know how we got lucky. If it was fate, what it was, but this guy Ryan Hamill was the first hire we ever made, and to this day is the best hire we've ever made.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: And and from that point on, I mean, Nadav, Ryan, like myself, but, really, Nadav and Ryan, you know, making that hire, having Nadav in that seat was critical to scaling the business.
Speaker: Why was he the best hire?
Speaker: Ryan Amel. Mhmm. He was already disciplined. He was extremely disciplined. He he he came from Marks and Millchap, which I doesn't mean he's gonna be a good hire, but he was he had a kid.
He had, at the time, one kid. He was 25 years old, 26 years old. He wanted it. He was hungry. He turned a job down at Tesla to do it.
And she said, I don't know why I'm doing this, but I'm gonna do it. Yeah. And he was just determined, I think. He was determined. He's attentive to detail.
He picks things up. He wanted to learn. He was constantly teaching himself on his own time. You know, it didn't take me to tell him to go listen to his phone calls. He went and listened to him on his own and wanted to get better.
Speaker: So, for those that don't know, who's Marcus and Millichap?
Speaker: It's a commercial brokerage for, you know, tenant rep and and, well, they sell properties too.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, like, the thing I like about commercial agents
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Is I mean, they're they're cutthroat. So they're not friendly. Right. Right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But they know how to hammer the phones. Yep. Right? Because the only thing they can do is they can sit on the phones all day. Yep.
Right? Because, like, you can't you can't last Absolutely. In commercial if you're not willing to be on the phones all day every day.
Speaker: And he was competitive. Right? It's like they those guys are competitive over there.
Speaker: Yeah. It's
Speaker: a competitive culture, and he, the thing about Ryan was he was competitive, but he was, like, smart. He had intuition. Right? He had, like, a sales aptitude to him, but the and I'll never forget the interview with him. I asked him the question.
It was, like, just tell me about a time you you had to earn it. Like, it could be sports. It could be anything. But tell me a time that, like, everyone counted you out and you had to earn it. And his answer was, my brother was the best baseball player at the high school, and I always lived in the shadow.
So I had to I had to prove to everybody that I was just as good as he was in baseball. And that answer was, like, enough for me to say you're hired. That's it. Yeah. You know?
Because I just knew, like, you get a gritty guy like that. You
Speaker: Someone's gotta prove themselves. Step on their shoulder. Exactly. So So Where were you living right now?
Speaker: I was at that time in Boston. I didn't move till to West Palm until we opened that office down there.
Speaker: You're in Boston?
Speaker: Yep. Nadov Nadov's in Denver.
Speaker: Denver. And Nadov had been partnership Yeah. Without really hanging out with each other.
Speaker: Yeah. We had just sold deals to each other, and I had talked to him a lot, and we were always BSing. But, you know, he he was we got the attorneys and like, everything was very, like, look. If this is gonna end, it's gonna end this way. Mhmm.
It was very cut and dry. Like, this is how it's gonna end, and if it's gonna continue and hopefully, we never have a problem. Right? But, like, if there is, it's gonna this is how it's gonna work.
Speaker: Yeah. And it was a Divorce on paper first.
Speaker: Yeah. And we did, like, a four year vesting schedule. It was like, I didn't just give him 50% of the business right there. Like, he bested it over four years so that you know? And if something happened within those four years, it would just wipe out.
Right? So it was kept everybody honest, basically. Yeah.
Speaker: You wanna explain that vesting schedule? Because, like, not a lot of people
Speaker: I didn't know it either. He didn't know it. It was funny. It was, like, the blind leading the blind with him and I. Right?
It's like, we had, one of my uncles at the time was, like, in the private equity space, and so I was like, what do we do? Like, how do we do this? He's like, you gotta drag and tag rights, and you gotta have this, and here's an attorney that'll draft it. And, and it made sense to both of us. But Drag
Speaker: and tag?
Speaker: I don't even understand what it is. It's something about, like, if someone wants to get out of the business and the other guy doesn't it there's a way that it all works.
Speaker: It's Right.
Speaker: The way it works out. The vesting schedule, and they do this in a lot of, I guess, in a lot of tech companies do this now. Like, a lot of these new AI companies are doing it. You know, all these RSUs are giving out and stuff. But it is basically a way for you to say, hey.
You're gonna get equity in this business, but you're you need to do your time to get that equity. And you need to, you know, put your time you need to spend a x amount of time at the company in order for that equity to be, you know, tangible.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. Converted.
Speaker: Yeah. Converted. Yeah. Yeah. So What were you gonna say?
Speaker: Oh, I was gonna say before, I think a big let me just kinda goes back to what I was gonna say before he went into that. But, I mean, I think why they also go together is, like, yeah. You guys are both, like, you know, obviously strong headed and, like, good negotiators and, you know, competitive. And but at the same time, like, they have very different strong suits.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: You know? And that's why it works. Like, Mike is so good on the whole, you know, just all of the business side of things. Right? And then Nadav's good at, you know, growing the team, pushing the team, all that.
And then that's why their partnership worked because it was like they're different like, the parts that they were each missing, that's why Mike couldn't grow it, right, and scale it. Because he had this. And Nadav could never go do it on his own because he wouldn't know how to grow the business side.
Speaker: His ability to, like, say, this is what's gonna happen with this guy if if we keep doing it this way Mhmm. These these four guys on this team are gonna start thinking this way. You know? Someone sells a deal that transitioned out of the production role, but they still have their buyers, and they sell a deal. A couple weeks ago happened.
Right? And he's like, listen. If you keep selling deals, these guys are gonna get it's gonna completely destroy these guys. Mhmm. You know?
And, like, his ability to know to just see his EQ kind of, like his ability to, like, see what's gonna happen, dynamically in the business with people Yeah. Is really high. Mhmm. And so he knows, like, when to move somebody from that sales role. Hey.
It's just not working here. Mhmm. Put them in acquisitions. This guy is actually should spend a week or two weeks in sales because he's he's probably not gonna be that good at it. Let's put him in this, and I can make him good at this.
Because he his he just understands what seat to put people in.
Speaker: Yeah. So the the way I've I've described this in the past is, like, the general manager. Right? They gotta put the people in the best spots Yeah. For them to succeed.
Speaker: Right. Yeah.
Speaker: So it sounds like Nadav is good at the the people element.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. He's he's humble and negotiating and, like, coming up with ways to make the deal happen is he's also knows every trick in the book. I mean, he's been doing it since 2017. Yeah. So he knows all the tricks to that, and he knows all the tricks the buyers are gonna play.
I mean, we all know those tricks and all that stuff. I feel like we're all on the same page with that, but I would just say, like, he's really good at, like, when we hired her. Like, Nadal was, like, the one that was, like, we gotta get Carly.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Right? And so you asked the question, like, how did we get linked up? The craziest thing is her husband that she just married, I had met him in college through one of my best friends from college. Yeah. Didn't even know he was dating Carly when I met Carly.
Speaker: One of his best friends in college is one of my husband's best friends from high school. Roman. Which was just in his yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. In our wedding.
Speaker: It was crazy. So it's like Smaller. It's the smallest one.
Speaker: And then when he partnered up with Nadav, I looked up Mike. I was like, who is this guy? And then so I went to Elon, so I asked Jack or mutual friend, and he's like, he was my college roommate and best friend. I was like, this is so funny.
Speaker: It was crazy.
Speaker: And then yeah. So just small world.
Speaker: But so Nadab all kinda funny. Knew, like, we gotta get Carly. Mhmm. And he knew we were at that point where we probably had about 30 people in the company at that point.
Speaker: Did he know Carly prior? Yeah. Probably he was after. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker: So they had worked together at New Western, and and, like, she sold more houses than anyone in that office. Mhmm. And Nadav was a general manager over there at New Western. And so he knew, you know he was like, we gotta get Carly. And he once she went over to the she went to Arumis or Roomies or I don't know.
They were in Phoenix. Right?
Speaker: What is it? A little bit.
Speaker: They're not even around anymore.
Speaker: I think they're out of business, but
Speaker: business now.
Speaker: Okay. But, basically, she she went with a couple new Western guys to Armis, and that was right around the time when Nadab and I partnered up. Uh-huh. That whole year
Speaker: That was a number.
Speaker: Hearing about how we need to get Carly.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Yeah. And and then finally, a year and a half later, she was like, I'll think about it. And he but Nadab's this goes back to, like, his ability to figure out how do we fit her in the work structure here.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Right. Where do we need her? Like, where can where can we where does he'll her skill set, where can it fit? And it was like we needed her to help manage the dispositions team and all the other stuff that goes on outside of, you know, the business development side of stuff. So, yeah.
It was it was a good fit, I think.
Speaker: So you handled business development or you handled the salespeople?
Speaker: Sales acquisitions. I was in the Denver office, so I helped out with them a lot, but we traveled around all the offices.
Speaker: But you were
Speaker: I'm gonna help with disco acquisitions.
Speaker: But you were doing dispo before.
Speaker: My role was director of business development. But yeah.
Speaker: You were dispo before. You did some acquisitions. Yeah. Came in here.
Speaker: With more managed it.
Speaker: Yeah. You weren't
Speaker: in the sales role. You were in the management role. Yeah.
Speaker: I would do a little bit of acquisitions still here.
Speaker: Well, how was that transition? Because it's not always, like, an easy transition.
Speaker: Yeah. I don't want
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, it was It's
Speaker: like, I don't get why these people don't understand what I'm saying.
Speaker: They don't know to just do this. I think yeah. That was very hard
Speaker: of course. I say that all the time.
Speaker: How do
Speaker: you not know to do this?
Speaker: Why do they do this? Why do they not know? I think I would get really frustrated with the work ethic of people more than anything. Yeah.
Speaker: That's fair.
Speaker: More than, like, more than, like, the dumb
Speaker: question. Closer.
Speaker: I get the dumb questions. I get, like, not knowing things. Like, everyone's new to it. I mean, I would just or I guess also just being, like, self sufficient. Just, like
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Literally look it up.
Speaker: Resourceful. I mean Yeah.
Speaker: Like, if you don't know what a lien is, then Google it versus just, like you know what I mean? It's like I mean, I'm more than happy
Speaker: to teach these
Speaker: things, but,
Speaker: like I would wake up at 5AM just to make my list of properties for the day. These guys are doing it at 10AM. What are they they don't even think they're not doing it. Insane.
Speaker: Yeah. We would have to wake up just to put deals in CSforce from the deals that came in Mhmm. Through the MLS overnight at, like, $5.06 in the morning. Like, I would literally set my alarm before going to the gym and do that. And I'm like, these guys, you know, they're rolling in at who knows when and Mhmm.
Just woke up. And I'm like, I don't understand this. And I I think it's interesting too because I think I don't know. I guess I look at when when I did it, but, I mean, there's still people like that too. Like, I didn't have a backup plan.
Right? Like, I didn't have any money saved up. Like, I only worked a little bit out of college and then went to a 100% commission role. And, like, I it's not like I have a big I don't have a trust fund or you know, like, I had no backup plan. I was kinda like, I have to make this work.
My parents were like, good luck. I don't know what you're thinking, but go ahead. You know? And but I think that also helped me because I didn't like, I was like, okay. Well, I have to make this work.
Right? So I don't know if, like, that I don't know. It's It's not that. It's not always but it's not, though, because there's still people like that. And I think that was the hardest part for me to be like, how aren't you?
Like, like, what are you doing? Like, you know, it was just so like, it just drove me insane. But then but then it eventually I mean,
Speaker: you know,
Speaker: then you then you learn how to manage. I think my struggle too is I didn't know how to manage people that were different than me. And I think that was the hardest. And it's okay that if there's some c players and some b players and the a players.
Speaker: I don't know that part. I don't know about that part.
Speaker: I mean, not c. But it's okay having a mix of b players, I should probably say, in with it and, like because, like, you need those people to balance it out. But, yeah, I think that just it it drove me insane at first.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, that's why I'm asking because, like, generally, like, if someone's naturally good, they're not really good managers.
Speaker: Yeah. That was something that as we grew, it it you know, it's like one of those things you learn. My uncle kinda pointed it out to me when we were like we opened Raleigh and Florida at the same time. We took our best sales guy out of Colorado, sent him to Raleigh. Mhmm.
He wanted to go into management. We took another really good sales and acquisitions guy out of Denver, sent him to Florida. And he was like, look. You're he goes, the worst thing you can do for a good sales guy or a good producer is put him in management. Yeah.
Because what happens is either they're gonna be good at management, but if they're not and they have to go back to sales, it's really hard to get back into sales and have that same, you know, gear that you had. Yeah. And he said that's how he he worked for Oracle.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: So he was like, that's how he's like, I've seen it a 100 times. You you destroy your best sales guy by putting him in management a lot of times.
Speaker: That's the way I mean, there's the the terms that the Peter Principle, right, which is, like, people people peter out. Like, they max out to a certain degree. And, like, the the for me, like, the the most the easiest way to explain is, like, you would never take Tom Brady
Speaker: Right. And then
Speaker: put him as quarterback's coach. You're like you would leave him
Speaker: in as quarterback. Never thought about that. It's a good example.
Speaker: He loves Tom Brady.
Speaker: Oh, really?
Speaker: That was true. Tom Brady guy.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Boston.
Speaker: Yeah. He's a huge Tom
Speaker: Brady guy. Yeah. But you take Tom Brady. You put him in the quarterback's coach. Yeah.
And then you're gonna have him coach who. Right? Like, they're not gonna have the same eye, the same arm.
Speaker: Right. So that's actually a really good I've never thought about it like that. Yeah.
Speaker: So you take your best guy off the field, and he's frustrated, and everyone else is frustrated.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they don't know how to manage. They know how to they know how to
Speaker: Well, it's not just they don't know how to manage because, like, that's a skill that could be taught is they might not have the heart to manage.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Which is, like, you know, like, if you're a good closer, you're a killer.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right? You got, like, you know, you have Kobe Bryant. Right? The mom mentality. You got the Jordan mindset and this and that.
Right? Like, you got this thing, like, the wake up with 5AM to put things in Salesforce. That's not a normal thing. No. You're like, why don't they do this?
Like, you're the weird one.
Speaker: Yeah. You're
Speaker: you're a lot different. Right?
Speaker: You had the brain damage.
Speaker: Yeah. That's why. I'll speak for that. I maybe reversed it.
Speaker: But, and so, like, they can't coach because they don't understand. They don't have the empathy.
Speaker: I mean, I I had that experience. She had the Herb, Nadav, and Ryan had sit me down when we opened the Florida office because I was, like, helping run that office. Mhmm. And prior, I was in a little office in Boston just running the business side of things. I was flying to Denver every week, every two weeks, really, and helping out there and, like, you know, driving driving driving, pushing pushing pushing.
And those guys, it was Ryan Hamill, and it was this kid Ryan Kernigh. And it was these guys that were greedy guys that were athletes that were competitive that had been, you know, in the trenches before.
Speaker: Great show.
Speaker: They were they were good for the way I was coaching them. But when you hire at scale and then you have five people of different personalities, different generation
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: 23 year olds, 25 year olds. Right? I was way too I had to manage them differently, and I didn't even understand it. Right? Until until, like, they literally had to sit me down and be like, hey.
You're you're pushing these guys too hard. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna, like you said, peter out. You know? And,
Speaker: It's hard to get
Speaker: you to
Speaker: do that.
Speaker: And I it was like but you have to realize, like, okay. I gotta treat these I gotta manage these guys different than these guys. We can't handle it.
Speaker: Well, the way we resolve that is we just hire differently, and we just don't let those people in.
Speaker: It's interesting, though. Like, those couple of those people are a players. Mhmm. They're just different generation. I it's like the new generation of I think, like, they're, like, they were, like, 22, 23 years old straight out of college.
They just they're just a different the way that what I don't know what it was, but they're just the way that they were coached, or maybe they didn't have someone that ever coached them really hard or whatever it was. It was like this it was just very evident that the people that were younger of that, like, kinda 23 year old so this would have been I don't know what gen that generation is. Is that, like, gen z or something? Like
Speaker: I think part of it too is
Speaker: It was it it's a very common like, I think I see it across the whole organization. Yeah. Actually, like, if you
Speaker: I believe that.
Speaker: I believe that. But I think that plays into people. Honestly, I think it helps a lot working in, like, corporate America before. Because you really understand how much you appreciate being at, like, you know, a company where you have so much freedom and, like, the ability to once again make as much as you want and, like, have that, you know, versus being in more of, like, this large corporation versus smaller company. It's just so different.
You don't know how to appreciate it when you've never done the other side of it.
Speaker: Yeah. You know?
Speaker: And I think that is a lot of these people right out of college. They don't know that other side. I don't think it's always a bad or a good thing. I think it's just different. It's just you actually
Speaker: like how you your experiences. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I think there's l I think it's definitely both. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, the because I think, like, the part where, like, they play sports
Speaker: It's Yeah.
Speaker: They should have been able to get coached hard.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like, I have a kid in
Speaker: the Florida office right now. Same 24 years old. Play he was a captain at Palm Beach inter like, Palm Beach International or Florida Gulf whatever it was. He's a division one basketball program. He I can push him.
Mhmm. Like, he wants to get pushed. Yeah. You know? Then there's other people that are, like, you gotta kinda coach him a different way.
So it's just understanding that.
Speaker: I think there's definitely some truth to coaching them different ways. Yeah.
Speaker: But at
Speaker: the same time, like, if you can't push them hard
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Then there's gonna be some other problems.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, they're not gonna I mean, they'll eventually weed out. Yeah. They'll be a culture fit too.
Speaker: So then you're managing these people. You're like, why aren't they waking up at 5AM? Why aren't they resourceful? Yeah. So then what happened?
Speaker: I mean, eventually, I also learned, you know, how to how to deal with them, how to manage them.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Did that for about a year and a half, and then, we decided to start Flipfund. It was like Okay.
Speaker: So before we get to Flipfund Yeah. So and and the so you guys partnered up in '23. Is that what you said?
Speaker: Nadal and I partnered in '23. Cara joined '24. End of twenty four.
Speaker: End of twenty four. Okay.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So then so we're talking about, you know, I made an extra 3,000,000 in 2025.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Right? So in '24
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: What
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Speaker: I think god. I wish I that would have been to 24. We ended the year with, like, 4,000,000 in in wholesale fees.
Speaker: 4,000,000 wholesale fees?
Speaker: Probably a high 4 millions of wholesale fees, and I think it was
Speaker: And that was in three markets or four markets?
Speaker: That was in '24. The mid probably 80% of the year was in actually, yeah, it was probably two markets. It was San Diego and and Colorado.
Speaker: San Diego and Colorado.
Speaker: Yeah. In October '24, we opened Florida. So it was, like, I mean, maybe And
Speaker: that was probably probably not.
Speaker: In Florida.
Speaker: That wasn't even Denver. You weren't even going Denver then.
Speaker: In '24?
Speaker: No. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Which is crazy.
Speaker: You're doing a little bit of Denver, but not really. So Nadab had a noncompete from New Western.
Speaker: Right. Yeah.
Speaker: We had to So they wouldn't do anything with it.
Speaker: And he could of Denver. Denver.
Speaker: For two years.
Speaker: But I had started the wholesaling in Pueblo, so it worked out also for that reason.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's very business down there.
Speaker: Okay. And then in '25, you guys did how many transactions?
Speaker: I think it was It
Speaker: sounded like four twenty.
Speaker: 120 something.
Speaker: Four
Speaker: twenty transactions, and you brought in?
Speaker: About 8,100,000.
Speaker: 8 mil. Yeah. So you guys doubled in a year Yeah. In revenue.
Speaker: Yeah. We actually since '23, we've doubled every year. It's crazy. So '23 to '24, we doubled, and then '20, '4 to '25, we doubled.
Speaker: Doubled again? Yeah. The 2 mil, 4 mil Yeah. 8 mil.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Correct. Okay. So then what were you say were the keys to go from, I guess, from four mil to eight mil? What were the what were the biggest difference makers?
Speaker: People. I would say people in the right seats is the number one thing. Yeah. That is the biggest thing. Difference makers.
People in the right seats, systems and operations Mhmm. I think, you know, it's crazy because there was a spin out that happened at New Western. And I'm not a New Western person, but it happened in '23, and Nadav and I partnered up in '23. Mhmm. It's a similar model for both, and it you just look at where both are now.
Yeah. One of them is not in business, and we're cranking. Mhmm. And I think it comes down to systems and processes and then people. Like, his ability to put people in the right seats and hire well.
I'd say from 24 to 25, I would just say system structure and people.
Speaker: And then you guys
Speaker: We we structure we kept things very structured for '24. Like, she's saying, you know, I did acquisitions and sales. She was literally developing the trainings each week for Tuesday and Thursday. So we'd have trainings each week, Tuesday, Thursday sales and acquisitions trainings each day. So four trainings a week, and she was developing them.
So, like, having her in there to do that, and then you have myself, Nadab, Ryan, you know, pushing people Mhmm. And and and, you know, pushing what she was training them on, what Ryan was training on, my myself and Adav training them on. Like, her developing the trainings, we were able to, like, take our time and help develop the people Yeah. You know, and and implement those trainings. I think that was what got us from we didn't have recruiting down.
We did not have the recruiting down. Right? We didn't even we didn't know our right from our left in recruiting. Mhmm. Our executive assistant from 2023 turned into our recruiter in 2024 and 2025.
Yeah. Now we finally have the recruiting down
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Three years later. So I can't say it was recruiting, but I I think this year, if you were to ask me next year, it'll be recruiting would
Speaker: be my issue.
Speaker: Structure, systems, and people.
Speaker: And then you guys were looking at your your numbers. There was a problem you guys had in regards to, like, assigning.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So what was the problem that you guys were running into you guys that you guys eventually solved?
Speaker: San Diego exposed it all. So when we opened up San Diego, it was extremely hard to break in that market.
Speaker: It's one of the most competitive markets. Oh, yes. It's extremely competitive market.
Speaker: It's you know? And even more, like, credits and adob there. Like, it's like him and I were, like, about to throw the towel in a couple times. You know? We we didn't have the hiring down like I just told you.
So we didn't know we weren't even hiring the right people. It was, you know, hard to get the right people in the right seats. After about seven months, you know, not only that, but the regulations in California make it really difficult.
Speaker: What regulations?
Speaker: So here you said you have blind huds here, so you can assign everything. Right? Yep. It's like in California, you have to get say, I go find us, buyer. I have to go get the seller to sign what's called an assignment of, an AOAA.
It's called an assignment of agreement addendum. And they have to sign off that you can assign the deal to someone else even if the contract's already assignable. Mhmm. That was a huge roadblock for us when we started that that, you know, Colorado's a lot like here. It's just
Speaker: Blah blah.
Speaker: Go and and yeah. Straightforward. People are trust honestly, people are trustworthy there just to for the most part. Like, they don't try to go around you. They're I never had that issue.
San Diego, they were just going right around us on every deal. Didn't matter what kind of deal it was. And you had to, like, prove yourself in that market. You know? And, that was what exposed that change that we made.
Yeah. And we didn't make the change because we thought it would be a revenue generator. We thought it would be a revenue you know, we thought it would actually hurt us because it was more process.
Speaker: What would hurt you?
Speaker: The double closing.
Speaker: Taking it down.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Changing how we were closing the deal. Mhmm. Changing the whole structure of the transaction.
So I remember we were at we got done, you know, one day. And it's like, when I say people, just going back a little bit. When I say people, it's like, that office wouldn't be where that office is if we didn't hire this guy, Frankie, and this kid, Jacob Hedger, who now runs that office. It's, like, similar to the Ryan Hamill thing. It's like you you need the right people Mhmm.
To go build a team and build a culture and drive the you know, hold the company to a standard that that you needed to be at.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if you don't have the right people, you're not gonna have the right standard. You're not gonna have the right culture.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so there's key guys in that office that helped us break through that market. But part of it was, like, we understood that, fundamentally, we had to change how we were doing the deals there because we were losing deals. We were losing deals by trying to assign them. And so, Nada, we were sitting at some bar, and he's like, dude, I'm telling you, we have to start double closing these. And I'm like, how the hell are
Speaker: we gonna do this? That's a lot of money in California.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. The average purchase price is, like, $850.
Speaker: Yeah. Double closing is Yeah. A lot of capital.
Speaker: So I'm sitting there thinking about it, and I'm like, well, we pass off. And I was like, we can pass off the the cost of the front side to the buyer. Mhmm.
Speaker: And I'm
Speaker: thinking to myself, like, that's a lot of money. You know? Like, are they really gonna do that? What he knew from his experience at New Western was if you provide the value of, like, just serving these deals to these investors on a silver platter, whether it's, you know and it's exactly what they need, they'll pay the tax because they know they'll next time they need a deal, they'll come back and get it right from you.
Speaker: Yes. They don't pay for marketing.
Speaker: They don't have to pay for anything, and they just and so and I didn't quite understood that because I was all direct to seller. Like I told you, I listened to your podcast. I was, like, all about, like, deep discovery, trying to figure out the problem. Right? Leverage the information and and make the offer.
Speaker: Wait. On that really quick, I think that was the cool part about when I came over and why I was hesitant at first was just, you know, switching over back with someone from New Western. And then Ava and I are the only people that ever came from there. But it's interesting with Mike because he had a whole different perspective. Mhmm.
Director seller side, creative finance deals. Like, we never did any of that at New Western. You know? Like Yeah. I didn't know any of that.
That was a whole new world to me. But I think that's been, like, the cool balance of, like, his fresh perspective, a lot of things. And then, you know, Nadav and my experience, especially Nadav with, you know, doing this since twenty twenty seventeen Yeah. At seeing a company scale that big. Yeah.
You know, where you were saying earlier, like, I had no idea we can even do a million in a month two years ago.
Speaker: Like, that's crazy.
Speaker: When we partner
Speaker: up You know? And now it's like
Speaker: get this company to do a million a month. I looked I looked at him. I'm like, what?
Speaker: You know,
Speaker: I had done, like, $100 a month a couple times or whatever, but, like, 1,000,000 a month, man. That sounds that's okay. Hey. If you think you know, he was so convicted when he said it, but to get to your question, your question was what made you What
Speaker: problem were you trying to solve?
Speaker: Yeah. So it was that AOA issue. Like, the the fact that we had to every time we wanted to sell the deal, we might have the buyer. They might put their deposit in, and we might have it all. But if the seller doesn't sign this AOA, it doesn't matter.
Mhmm.
Speaker: And
Speaker: so we were like, okay. So then I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, well, we might actually be able to make a little money on these deals by double closing. And I was thinking, like, it all started with, like, okay. We control the transaction from the beginning. You know, we can push push the spreads a little more because we have control.
Like, when a buyer gets to the assignment and he sees, oh, you're making $80. Like, California has big fees. Right?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: And they start retrading you and they start, you know, gouging at the closing table. Seller sees that you're making $85,000. I can't tell you how many times the seller was like, no.
Speaker: Mhmm. And then
Speaker: we'd have to renegotiate with the seller and the buyers. It's like it was a whole disaster. Yeah. And so it was just like, alright. If we just can figure out a way to get this money together, we went and raised money, and then that's how we started double closing the deals there.
Yeah. And it was just out of necessity to get the deals done.
Speaker: How did you get that much money? That's a lot of freaking money.
Speaker: I actually texted my fraternity group chat. The first thing I the first thing I did was like, hey. If if we can make, like, 12% on the money here, does does anyone wanna throw some money together? And one of my buddies texted me on the side was like, you're out of your goddamn mind, dude. These guys aren't gonna come up with a million and $0.5.
It was honestly a lot of, like, friends and family and stuff like that, and we they actually, they were like, you're being too generous with what you're gonna pay out on this. Mhmm. So, we we kinda did the math, and we're like, we gotta be doing, like, 20 deals a month. And This was at the point where we're doing, like, 16.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: And we're
Speaker: like, we gotta be doing 20 deals a month to to hit these returns for the investors, and it was just friends and family Yeah. At that point. And then we were hitting the returns, and we still are. And it's just like I mean and then that was kinda where we were like, okay. Wait.
And then at the end of the year, we looked at it, and we're like, if we're getting these investors these returns on this money Mhmm. Clearly, there's obviously a market here to do this Right. Because they're getting these returns. I mean, we we gave them a double digit return. Right?
So if we can get money at less, we can make a spread there Right. On that. So we went and raised then that was kinda where Carly was, you know, we're like, alright. We'll start the company. There was another one of my mentors, you know, kind of saw he was running through the books with me, and he's like, this is a moneymaker right here.
Mhmm. And then so we initially, it was about solving the problem within the business. Of course.
Speaker: So it all starts.
Speaker: Yeah. And then it was like, okay. Wait. Maybe there's a market here. Mhmm.
And then, once we we we looked at it, we knew that we could make money. So we're gonna start the business. Right? Yeah. So we went we start the business, and then when we said, Carly, you're in charge of this.
This is you're no more Vertigo. No more teaching acquisitions and dispo and all that. No
Speaker: more managing salespeople.
Speaker: Yep. You're we're gonna take two it's actually two previous acquisitions and sales guys from Vertigo. Mhmm. And they're the ones selling the flip phone product to the wholesalers now. Yeah.
Carly's just managing them and knows them very well. Right? At this point, worked together for three years with them. And, the long and the short of it is, like, they, you know when we we obviously needed a value add when we started the business. Like, we needed to be able to go to wholesale and say, hey.
Here's why you should be double closing your deals.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: You can't go to wholesale and say, hey. This company went from three people to 12 people, 30 people to 80 p or 50 people, whatever it was, at the end of last year. Mhmm. You should go do it too, and you should start double closing. Like, that's not gonna get through.
Right? So we we went and looked at the stats of it, and it was crazy that excluding California. Right?
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Excluding California, the deals we double closed, our average fee in Denver was 17,000 from 2023 to 2024. Mhmm. Excuse me. 2025. '24?
Speaker: '25. My year shift
Speaker: to '25. The average assignment across those two years Yeah. Which was, like, hundreds of deals. This isn't a small sample set of deals. It's, like, it's probably, how many deals did we do?
A 112 and then 230. It was probably 300 deals, 300 plus deals
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Of assignments was $17,000. And we looked at just our own numbers. We didn't even know it. Right? And we and then it was 25.
The double closes were 25,000. So it's like, okay. We're making 7,000 or, you know, $8,000 more on these deals Mhmm. That we're double closing. That was the whole value add.
Like,
Speaker: here's more.
Speaker: Right. And then Mhmm. She made a really good point. It's like, you should talk about how I didn't even think of this either. The deals we got from double closing deals.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I think that was
Speaker: That's the one that no one understands. No one even thinks so.
Speaker: I think a lot of people that are used to doing, you know, direct to seller and all that, they think of, like, the the marketing aspect of double closing. Like, the amount of calls I still get to this day, like, I probably at least get one text or call a day still, and I haven't done an acquisition in I don't know how long Mhmm. Of people sending me deals just because they saw my name attached to a deal on the tax rolls. You know? Carly Stegi on there.
And, you know, that obviously stacks up over time and over time. And it's like, okay. If you get one or two of those a year, like, that's gonna pay for your, you know, pay for your transactional funding right there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: One a one a one a month, you know, if you're doing that many deals. Like, that's gonna happen. Mhmm. You know? And, like, I I think that that is, like, a huge aspect of it that I believe in and then also being able to negotiate better with with the sellers with that too of, like, hey.
You know, I'm the one controlling the contract. Right? Like, you're actually closing with me. Like, I'm not gonna go pass this on, and someone else can do whatever with it because I'm assigning it. You know?
It's like you are actually working with me. I think it's another big aspect of it too.
Speaker: People see on the tax rules, like, this entity bought this house. Right? When you sign it, you're not on the tax
Speaker: You're not in the transaction history.
Speaker: Transaction history. No. None of
Speaker: you are. Realtors will call us and be like, hey. I saw you bought this in this neighborhood. Like, do you guys wanna buy this one?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: There's, like, a neighborhood in in Jupiter, Florida right now that's starting to blow up, and we bought the first fixer in that neighborhood. Mhmm. And it's a nice neighborhood. It's like a $1,200,000 deal. But now there's realtors calling us about other $1,200,000 fixers that no one knows about in that neighborhood.
Yeah. First of all, yeah. On that
Speaker: tax roll. Yeah. Another tactic I used to use in acquisitions, is I would pull a list or make a map of all the deals I closed, say, the month before or two months before. And I would say that, you know, like, I'd attach it to my offers. And I would say these are all the deals that I closed, you know, last month in your area.
Speaker: Alright.
Speaker: And so it's, like, actual proof, and you can actually track it back to my name. Mhmm. First time I'm assigning. Like, I had this guy call me actually a few weeks ago, buddy of the Dobbs, and he's like, can you tell the seller that I did this deal? Like, they don't believe me because I assigned it.
And I was like, I can't help you with that. Like, what do you like, I know I've heard of you doing this deal, but, like, that doesn't mean you know what I mean? And that lost his credibility and lost the deal because of that. Yeah. You know?
But, like, being able to actually show that, especially when you're working in areas like California where it's very agent heavy and MLS heavy, being able to prove that and have that credit credibility is, like, it's it's kind of a must, you know, especially there. It's, like, the only way to
Speaker: I think I'll go
Speaker: to that market.
Speaker: What's the average? Like, if one of the people that you coach or that your uses your AI product or Mhmm. Whatever. Like, what's the average that they are spending on marketing a month?
Speaker: Oh. Yeah. It's Of our current clients, I don't know what the average is, but I know, like, there's a lot of people spending anywhere from 20 to $40,000. And there's there's obviously much lower and obviously much higher. But, like, 20 to 40,000 is not unusual.
Speaker: Not unusual. Yeah. And so it's like a lot of people think of, oh, if I double close this, it's gonna cost me $2 to to buy it Mhmm. On quote with the closing costs. Right?
So I'm gonna lose $2,000. Yeah. Or you're losing $2,000 if you'd if you're doing 10 deals a month and you double close all of them.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Right? First of all, you can pass that 2,000 on to the buyer. Right. You can pass that. If you're good a good wholesaler, right, and you're getting off market deals and you're getting, you know, distressed property that no one else is seeing Mhmm.
Buyers already wanna work with you. You know this from when you you're wholesaling. Right? So they already wanna work with you. So if you say, hey.
I you gotta pay this extra $2 or you pass it off to them. Right? It's a simple little clause in your contract you put in there. I can give it to whoever wants it
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Podcast. And you pass it off to them. Now it's net zero to you. And you're doing 10 deals a month. You do 10 deals a month like this, and it brings you in one extra deal or two extra deals three months down the line, four months down the line.
Your whole marketing budget just got paid for by changing the way you did your transaction. Yeah. Right? Your entire marketing budget that month.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, I think the the biggest thing for me is just the control aspect.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Right? The having the capital available Yeah. To close. So just clarification here. So, you were double closing your deals, or were you buying and then marketing your deals?
Speaker: No. We were double closing it. So we would we would we would close on it the same day as the buyer. So we would market it out same way you do an assignment. Mhmm.
Market it out. Right? And and then you're just lining the buyer up to close on the same day as you.
Speaker: But the biggest difference here then is that, you're not signing those at the AOA.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Because you don't have to sign that with the homeowner.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And, and then this also protects people from going around you?
Speaker: To some extent. Yeah. I mean, well, like, there's a lot of realtors or whatever. If we're doing an MLS deal, like, people go to the realtor and be like, you know, these guys are trying to market your deal out. And they answer the realtors, like, we told you we're gonna close on it.
We're gonna close on it. Simple as that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: We might sell it, but we also might not. And Yeah. You know, when you're at some point, I'm sure a lot of your audience or a lot of the people you interview, like, they're flipping houses as well. Like, it's not uncommon to say, hey. We have three different Yeah.
Speaker: I might wholesale it. I might flip it. I might just keep it.
Speaker: And I'm gonna look at every exit before while I can. Right? And so a lot of agents will understand that. And when you say, look. We're gonna be the ones closing on it.
You don't have to deal with anyone else. I might have to get access to the house. Right? And if I'm gonna if I can sell and make a quick buck, nobody's you know, you're getting your client's getting what they want. You're gonna get paid.
You're get you're closing, and, you you know, you're closing with me. You don't have to deal with any other BS. Yeah. And so that's kind of
Speaker: The peace of mind.
Speaker: Yeah. The control aspect is big. Right? I think it happens all the time.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Like, it happened last week, I was at a house, one of the acquisitions guys. Same thing. The agent was like, these people are saying, like, your marketing, we're like, just we're gonna close on it. Yeah. Another thing I learned and it this won't work.
I don't I mean, what will work, but, like, we don't something to understand is, like, we don't just get 30 contracts under contract and then close 10 of them. Like, our attrition rate is, like, 20%. Like, we'll close on four of every five that we get under contract. Right? So it's we're pretty confident that when we go under contract, we're gonna find a buyer for this deal.
Speaker: Alright.
Speaker: Right? So it's it's not like a it's the like, you can convictedly say to the agent or the seller, we're gonna close at this price. Mhmm. Right? And this you're gonna we're gonna close with you unless there's something crazy that comes up.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, but the control aspect is huge because not only that. I mean, like I said, the buyers like, you know it. Like, a buyer sees a big fee. You tell them about them. Yeah.
Speaker: That's what I was gonna say. And that was so after I left New Western, we're only double closing there. Right? And then New Western.
Speaker: At New
Speaker: Western, we're only double closing. And then when I left, we were signing. First time I did assignments, I was like, at first, I was like, this is great. So easy. I was like, why don't we always do assignments?
And more of my issues actually came from with the buyer, which is interesting. I remember this one time I had, like, this I forget the exact numbers, but it was around, like, a $70,000 fee. And, you know, the seller agreed to it. Buyer agreed to it. House was the same.
You know? Buyer walked it. Everything. Like, their rehab numbers worked out, their ARV, whatever. You know, they got the contract.
They see that I'm making 70,000, and they're like, no. You know? Like, I I actually need this at, you know, x amount higher, or lower. And I was like, okay. Well, you know what?
I like this buyer. Been working with him for years. You know? He yeah. I wanna keep that relationship with him.
I know he's gonna buy more from me. So I was like, okay. I'll make a 45 k fee. Still a really good fee, which it is. You know?
But, you know, there goes, what, $25,000 right there. Right.
Speaker: And it
Speaker: wasn't the house that changed. It wasn't the seller that changed. It wasn't the buyer that changed. It was just the contract. It was the contract.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if I let's say I double close that. Let's say I didn't pass it on to the end buyer, and I still paid, let's say, an extra $5 for double closing that and for joint financial funding, closing cost, whatever. Let's say $5. Still, $20 that I just lost out on. You know?
And then that kept happening. You know? You don't realize how much that happens because you're still like, oh, I'll still make a 45 k fee. That's awesome. You know?
But, like, even if you change that $5.10 k here and there for the fee to look a little bit better, it's it's gonna keep happening. It's it's core. Up over time. Exactly. And that's what I didn't I don't think I realized that at first.
And, Mike and I always heard the the transactional funding, he brought up the story to me, which I know a lot of people have heard of the Colgate toothpaste story of the tube. Have you you've heard this?
Speaker: The million dollar hole.
Speaker: The million dollar hole. That's what they that's what they call it. But, basically, it's, you know, Procter and Gamble, massive company. They were trying to figure out all these different marketing tactics to get their, profits up. K?
Mhmm. They had this guy come in. They literally charged or he he only charged a $100 for this. Okay? A $100,000.
That's all they paid this guy. And he didn't change anything in marketing. He didn't
Speaker: change said to him, like, I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna give you something. And You
Speaker: have to sign this NDA.
Speaker: Need to sign this NDA right now, and and I'm gonna tell you something that's gonna, you know
Speaker: Completely change your your company, or I'm gonna double your profits next year or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah. That's something
Speaker: crazy. And didn't change the actual product. You know? They didn't change the who the customer was. They didn't change their marketing.
They didn't change the bottle. The only thing they changed was the size of the opening of the tube from, like, four millimeters to, like, five. Mhmm. That was it. It's the only thing that changed.
And it's, like, the same thing. You know, like, with
Speaker: So the the whole thing for people that, like, might not pick that up is, like, when you change the size of the hole of the tube, more toothpaste comes out every time. So you have to go buy x amount more toothpaste. You multiply that across the scale of a whole year, and all the customers, they have to all buy one extra bottle of toothpaste a year.
Speaker: A lot of money.
Speaker: Money that's gonna be made. Right?
Speaker: It's a
Speaker: lot of money. All they did was change one.
Speaker: One little thing. And that's the same here. It's like you're not changing how you're doing your marketing. You're not changing how, you know, who your buyers are. You're not trying to find maybe better deals, more deal deals.
All you're doing is literally changing your contract
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: From an assignment to a double close contract. That's it.
Speaker: Yeah. You
Speaker: know? Nothing else really changes.
Speaker: So you figure this out, problem, San Diego. And then you say, okay. We gotta make money off of this.
Speaker: Yeah. Right? It's like, alright.
Speaker: We gotta monetize this. Right? You're an entrepreneur. Yeah. I think that yeah.
So then you go back to just, like, Carly's gonna drive this? Is this a
Speaker: This was, like, a crazy kinda, like, it all It
Speaker: just kinda happened.
Speaker: Just happened to to hap to, like, go this way. First of all, I'm not it's first podcast well, I think I was on, like, some Zoom podcast back in, like, 2021 about virtual wholesaling or something. But it's the first pod like, real podcast I've ever been on. Yeah. Like, I'm not a camera guy.
I'm not, like, always I'm not very creative. I'm not, you know, not that I it's an honor to be here, but I'm just like, this is the first time I've done this. So it's kinda like, alright. If we're gonna bring this thing, you know, we brute force just made money in wholesaling. It's it's not we don't have any special marketing.
We don't have any special anything. It's just brute force managing and
Speaker: Execution. Execution.
Speaker: Right? And so, we're like, alright. Carly is really good at, like, meeting people, talking to people, building connections, networking. She just told you about how she sold 90 houses in a year
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: By networking. Right? It's like Yeah. That's what she's good at. And we knew that, like, the target market for this is gonna be wholesalers that were, like, in the position we were when we discovered this.
Like, doing 10 deals a month or doing 12 deals a month. Yeah. And or maybe even three deals a month. Right? And maybe they maybe their goal is not to grow to doing $5,000,000 a year in revenue, but maybe their goal is to just have more control and get more deals in the door without spending any more money.
Or maybe their goal is to just, like, not have to deal with the the assignment and the the buyer coming back to maybe, you know, more be be more legitimate by actually closing on the property. Right? Yeah. Actually being able to do what you say you're gonna do to the seller and not kind of leading them down this windy path that we've all we've all done. Right?
Speaker: To to
Speaker: try to get a deal done when we first started. And so I I think, like, yeah, we saw that there could be money money could be made, but we also were, like, there we also knew there was other companies that were, like, kinda growing at the same size we were or maybe bigger than us that could utilize it.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: Because we talked to those companies and they were, like, yeah, we have, like, some hard money lender that's doing it for us right now and they're charging us this and, you know, I'm doing the math and I'm like, we can we can raise this money and we can subsidize some of it with the deals we're doing and kind of back it with the deals we're doing and create a way to, you know, provide that money for those guys and start generating revenue that way. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, we we saw that you could make money in it, but we also realized, like, just the amount I mean, how many deals roll every month? Like, we went from, like, probably 25% of our deals rolling to the next month to just, like, maybe I don't even know the number, but it's almost maybe maybe three deals roll a month now.
Right? We're doing 30 to 40 deals a month. Maybe three of them roll over to the next month, and it's something that's, like, completely out of our control. Right. It's not because the buyer's, like, oh, this is kind of important.
Right? It's, like, the buyer is, like, oh, well, I can't I I can't do this and I can't do that, so I'm gonna close on this day. And in California or I mean, even some other states like Colorado, like, when you assign that paper, you don't own that paper anymore. So, if you don't own the paper, how you gonna control the transaction? Buyer says he wants to close three days later.
What it how much leverage do you really have? You know what I mean? Maybe his deposit, but, like, then you wanna risk losing the deal and, like, take his deposit and put him in default and have to find another buyer. Like, you kinda lose control.
Speaker: Yeah. Well He
Speaker: says I want 10 k off. You can't go to the seller and say I need 10 k off.
Speaker: Yeah. You can't even renegotiate. That's another Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. That was, You
Speaker: wanna get into that? That's because I don't think anyone understands that also.
Speaker: Yeah. Elaborate on it. Because I know this is this is about
Speaker: this at a
Speaker: This is give you a conversation before, so go ahead.
Speaker: Yeah. This was a big thing for me because I was, like, we were signing deals.
Speaker: And I
Speaker: would tell our team, like, there's like 10 guys at one point and then there was 20. Right? And it's like, they hear about all these people retrading these deals. And I'm like, you are never retrading an assignment. Yeah.
And that's a great way to get us in a lawsuit. Mhmm. And I don't even know, like, did you understand that when you came over? Like, some people didn't understand it. They're like, what do you mean we can't retrade it?
And I'm like
Speaker: Yeah. Because I always started You don't own
Speaker: that paper. You just that guy put up money. That's his consideration to now own that piece of paper. You can't retrade that piece of paper and the purchase price on that piece of paper. Yeah.
And it's like this whole thing, you know, I've learned a lot about the legal system over the last year, but,
Speaker: Well, we are Steve and I were talking about this because it's like even if you put in there, I can go retreat it, it's like putting in there, like, something Substitute show Mike. That doesn't mean I can go punch Mike down here.
Speaker: Form. It's it's like the greatest, you know
Speaker: So I guess, like, the way I I learned about this was that basically, once you've assigned the contract Yeah. You no longer are a party to the contracts. Yeah.
Speaker: You don't own it.
Speaker: And now that you're no longer part of the contract, you can't go do a price drop
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Or negotiate with the seller. The buyer can do whatever and we actually I learned this here. Yeah. So you know, Evo and Annie, they own batch. Yeah.
Sold batch leads. So it's a long time ago and they got hosed by this wholesaler not wholesaler and buyer who went and, like, just extended close of escrow. And they're, like, you can't do that. And it was a whole deal, and then we we learned
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Could do that.
Speaker: Yeah. He owns the paper.
Speaker: Because they assigned the contract. Yeah. And they have no legal standing at all. Their name's on the line Right. With the homeowner Yeah.
But they've lost all control Right. Because they've assigned the contract. I don't think anyone knows about this.
Speaker: So what happens when you assign a contract? Right? No one knows what happens when you assign a contract.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. We know. It's like the other guy. He can do whatever he wants.
Speaker: He or she
Speaker: could do whatever he wants.
Speaker: Well, like, people, I think, don't really understand it.
Speaker: Well, I think the people that aren't doing as many deals, once you start scaling
Speaker: I think most people don't know it. There's a lot
Speaker: of people that are interested in. Look at any large wholesale firm, they double close.
Speaker: Cara, I
Speaker: think the reason
Speaker: for that. They don't understand they don't understand, like, the legal language in that assignment contract.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And what's actually happening dynamically in the in the transaction. Yeah.
Speaker: It seems basic. You're assigning
Speaker: You are assigning your rights away. So you have the right to buy I have the right to buy Steve Trang's house. Right? I have the right to buy it at this price on this day. Mhmm.
As long as I uphold my obligation to the agreement. I'm assigning that right to you to now buy Steve Trang's house Mhmm. For x price from me and making the difference. Well, all the rights that I had with Steve Trang to buy that house are now your rights. Mhmm.
I don't have the right to go back to Steve and say, I want a new purchase price on that contract that now you own. Mhmm. Yeah. Right? And so I think people don't realize that.
Like, I've had attorneys not understand that.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Yeah. I've had Seems like
Speaker: they should understand it.
Speaker: It's confusing.
Speaker: I've had I've had attorneys not understand that, like, there's separate earnest money. Mhmm.
Speaker: There's
Speaker: another thing. This is another good one. I didn't even think I never even kinda clicked for me until now, but, like, your buyer puts earnest money down, right, on the assignment agreement. That's the earnest money to bind the assignment agreement to give Carly the right to buy Steve's house. Yeah.
Right? That's the consideration to for you to buy Steve's house. I've had attorney try to be, like, no. That earnest money is actually, you know, going towards the purchase on
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: You know, you that has nothing to do with you as the signer. Yeah. Because of some weird way it was worded. Mhmm. Only time it's ever happened.
But, like, it's happened, and it's, like, when you just double close it and you have a contract between Mike and Steve and a contract between Carly and Mike, the earnest money Mike puts down for Steve is the earnest money Mike puts down for Steve. The earnest money Carly puts down with Mike is Mike's earn you know what I mean? It's very cut and dry. There's no it is a bit of a it is a bit more of like a process, but it it's you you're you're creating more control. You're creating more predictability Yeah.
Speaker: With the deal. Well, if you're wholesaling Yeah. You guys do need to understand this. Yeah. It is poor.
It seems like non like, not not that big a deal until it is. Oh, yeah. And so, like, I've had it happen again for myself where I was wholesaling to someone else, and then they wholesale this to another person. Yep. And so they, when once they did that, I could not enforce my contract with the other buyer, or I could not get them to enforce their contract because they assigned their rights.
And over here, I just want my earnest money.
Speaker: Yeah. You're just sitting like Yeah.
Speaker: Just give me the earnest money that I was owed. They're like, no. Like, that's not how this works. Your contract with this wholesaler, the the daisy chainer, is different than their relation their contract with this person. And, like, you're trying to collect earnest money here, but, like, in that instance, there should have been three different earnest monies.
Yep. Right?
Speaker: It's the same thing that happened to me.
Speaker: But because there wasn't
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: My relationship with this person was different than relationship with the the Daisy Channer with the end buyer.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And after all that, it's like, screw all this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right? We're gonna make sure everyone follows the rules that we're like, Steve's rights protected. Right. And so we had to go through a whole deal with that.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: So I wanna get back to this. So Yeah.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So you guys figure out Carly is better more, with people than you are.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. I mean, it was an obvious and Adam and I were sitting there and we're like, you know, you know, it was one of these things too. It's like you you push and you push and push and you grow and it grew. Right? And it grew, but Carly, Nadav, Ryan, and Mike were all there was no clear roles.
Like, it was obvious that I was running the the business side of things, and I was running a lot of the people side of things, but, like, and Ryan was in charge of all the dispositions people.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: But there was kinda, like, everybody was doing a lot of, like, hey, can you do this for me? I got all this stuff in my play Cara, you mind doing this. Right?
Speaker: So it
Speaker: was like a lot of people doing a lot of just everything. It was a bit convoluted on what the exact responsibilities were of each person. And so we really like ironed that out at the beginning of this year. That was like one of the things we ironed out in January. Like these are the responsibilities.
And then we launched it, we launched it, you know, in January.
Speaker: The flip fund capital.
Speaker: It launched, I take it back in March. It was like March we got the fund completely closed out.
Speaker: March of this year.
Speaker: Yeah. We closed out the new fund and then we, and then that so, like, April's where, like, kinda we were, like, alright, Carly, we want you to Yeah. Take your eye off vertigo and just focus on this.
Speaker: Yeah. So I was doing both for a little bit. And then April is when I switched over and it's, like, solely flip flop to really grow it.
Speaker: Yeah. And you're not wrong, like, because that's how I met Carly.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Right? I met her in a boardroom and then a collective genius.
Speaker: Yeah. She's talking to everybody. She's like Yeah. You know, she's like sending me pictures. She's like, I won this award.
I'm like, I've been to that mastermind. I never won a single. I don't even get a sticker at that place, you know. Like Yeah. So.
Speaker: So you, you launch it right now. So we talked about you guys are in four states. Right? Yep. Yep.
So Colorado, California
Speaker: North Carolina.
Speaker: North Carolina, and then Florida. South Florida. Right? Flip Fund Capital. Where is Flip Fund Capital at?
Speaker: Everywhere.
Speaker: We can do it anywhere.
Speaker: Off of these states?
Speaker: Yeah. The way we can do it the way we're doing it, we can do it anywhere. Yeah. So
Speaker: What does that mean, the way you guys are doing it?
Speaker: Just the way that the company is structured. Like, we're not a lender. Mhmm. And so You're not a lender? No.
So we're Okay. We're like a kinda like a capital partner in the deal, and we're actually changing the way we just got, like, all the documents back of how we're doing it. Mhmm. Because a lot of the feedback we've gotten is, like, can you fund my earnest money? Mhmm.
Speaker: And a
Speaker: lot of like what we do is like obviously we're helping them double close the deal. We're providing the money to double close the deal. Yeah. But we also are doing a lot of the transaction coordination with the deal. Like Really?
Yes. So these wholesale I mean, it was a shell she was shell shocked when she realized how kinda all over the place these other wholesalers were, like, they didn't have they didn't, like, really stick to their close dates. They didn't, like, Yeah.
Speaker: It's a suggestion.
Speaker: One of one of my sales guys
Speaker: got it.
Speaker: Exactly. It's literally been a suggestion. One of my sales guys is out this week, and I'm dealing with all these clients, and I'm, like, oh my gosh. Yeah. I thought our sales guys were bad.
I'm, like
Speaker: Our sales guys have their commission structures tiered at Vertigo. So it's, like, if they sell x amount of deals in a month, they get more percentage commission. Mhmm. And so they all get their stuff closed by the end of the month.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: That doesn't like I told you, like, it had a big effect on it rolling because it gave them more control of the deal. Yeah. But they all also are incentivized to get it done by the end of the month. Yeah. These guys are salespeople.
Yeah. The clients are the flip on are, like, kinda all over the place, like, 20% of them roll, you know. So, where where was I going with that?
Speaker: Earnest money.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. So they were asking, like, they've had a bunch of people asking, can you do earnest money? Would you fund or earnest money? And so we kinda came up with a way. I mean, we had to talk to attorneys for the last, like, three months of, like, because they're, like, you can't do it this way because we can't you can't be a lender, like, or you can go get licensed as a lender.
And I was, like, if we can do without doing that, I'm happy to do that. And so we're gonna we're kinda coming out with, like, a subscription service where you're gonna you know, if a wholesaler wants us to fund their earnest money and do all of their transaction coordination, compliance, all that stuff to make sure the deal gets done the right way, we'll handle all of that for them.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Contracts yeah. Access to contracts, all that too.
Speaker: So I get I think that's another kinda caveat. Like, Vertigo, obviously, we've kinda like I said, systems is, like, a big thing, like, system and structure. That's something that I think from last year to this year, we've gotten really good at. Mhmm. Our back office, we have three people in the back office that are just constantly dealing with all the the transaction stuff, the title companies, all the all the BS.
And the funding, like, all the funding that goes through with all these double closes, we're spending money around a lot. Right? The money comes out, it comes back. We gotta make sure it all comes back. We gotta rip all the type of settlement statements gotta be right.
So, we kind of saw that and it was actually our attorney that helped us in a different thing. It was like, he was on he was a Wall Street guy. He's like, you guys have the back office done. He's like, I worked for he he was a huge litigator on Wall Street. Mhmm.
And he said, there was a trading firm that had a great back office and what they did when all these hedge funds started coming up was they outsource their back office Mhmm. To these had these other hedge funds that were newer. He He's like, that's what you should do. Yeah. And he said that.
Shout out Howard. He said that to us in January. Mhmm. So her and I have been trying to and Nada have been trying to figure out a way to, like, how do we get our implement our back office into this And really provide a value other than just a structural, you know, ability a utility for wholesalers to double close. How do we really provide a value of like, pay us x amount at each month, we'll do if you're doing x amount of deals, we'll take this amount, You know, they'll do a consultation.
Everything's subjective kind of, you know, you get every client would be different. And we can help do all your compliance, do all your, you know, transactional coordination. I'll make sure all the legal work is right. Title companies, you know, vet the title companies, do everything with that, and then make sure all the the settlement statements look correct because it these are you know, it gets a little tricky with these. Yeah.
When you're doing two closings, you gotta make sure the settlement statements are right.
Speaker: And we'll we'll allow too with our fund to do two separate title companies, which is not common for
Speaker: Yeah. It's another buyers. Companies.
Speaker: You guys will allow
Speaker: We do choose our title companies. Yeah.
Speaker: We'll allow both people to close in two different title companies.
Speaker: That's why a lot of people do double close too. So they that's where a lot of our clients has come from too. So that's what we do.
Speaker: That is a decent amount. Yeah. Because I would never do that.
Speaker: No. A lot of
Speaker: people do that.
Speaker: We do it in our own company. So it's like, that's what I mean. Like, if we didn't have the three people in our four people in the back office,
Speaker: like we do.
Speaker: Yeah. You know, we didn't have, like, Joeli, Aaron, Lillian, my my uncle Mike is running he retired from Oracle. He's like, I'll help out with this. The they're, like, double checking everything. Right?
And running through every all the compliance, and making sure all the settlement statements are I mean, it's a lot of work. Like, especially when you
Speaker: It's a lot of work. And I'm I'm just thinking, like, that alone is is like, that one thing in there, there'd be a reason to use you guys. Yeah. On top of everything else, just that Right. Because that was that's
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's gonna be That's stressful. We have
Speaker: a lot
Speaker: of have the two different and I think it's probably, I think it's a really good idea that you guys are talking about doing the transactions, coordination side because if you guys are sourcing the earnest money
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And you guys are doing the double close, you guys actually have a lot of capital at stake here. And there's a way to mitigate that risk.
Speaker: Exactly. 100%.
Speaker: Honestly, we're already dealing with a lot of these guys' stuff anyways. We might as well get paid for it. Yeah.
Speaker: It's it was Basically, we're doing it.
Speaker: Yeah. It's
Speaker: like, Charlie's like, I'm literally dealing with this guy, Sergio, and he he has no idea. He's in Colombia. He doesn't even know what's going on. I'm like, alright. Well, maybe we should, you know so so they the attorneys came up with a way for us to kinda, like it would be a subscription service.
It would be a service. And then, all of that stuff we would do for them. Mhmm.
Speaker: We
Speaker: would do the earnest money. But that
Speaker: would be on top of that.
Speaker: And also, you know, if we do the earnest money, we have to, like we secure it a certain way.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: It's not, like, you know, secured by some lien on something. It's just secured by, like, basically paperwork. It's all paperwork. And it's it's like a proxy on that deal to cancel the deal if we need to. Right?
If the wholesaler gets hit by a bus and and we don't hear from him and the thing's about to default or expire and there's no buyer with the deposit in, because we're doing the transaction coordination, we would know if that deposit in from the buyer. Mhmm. Right? If it's not, we'd we'd have a proxy to cancel the deal. Gotcha.
Speaker: Right? So By protecting yourself.
Speaker: Yeah. We try to protect ourselves through paperwork is, you know Got it. What we're gonna do. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. So you guys are now, doing transactional funding in all 50 states. So how's that journey coming along?
Speaker: Good. I mean, it's it's taken time, like, you know, like I'd say at first, like, it's such a relationship type business.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Speaker: I know we obviously talked about this. I was so much more used to faster paced sale Mhmm. You know, and, like, relationships still, but it was just pretty black and white. You know? You like the deal and numbers make sense or not.
With this, you know, it's a lot more I mean, it's finding the right people, right, and then finding, like, the right size client. I think, like, our sweet spot has been, like, people doing, like, three to 10 deals a month. Mhmm. You know, figuring out where those people are and then also then having people, you know, switch over their process. A lot of people are just stuck in their same way.
Like I was saying, you know, we're used to assignments, and I was just doing it this way. And I thought that's how, you know, we should do it. And then once you switch over, you're like, oh, why didn't I do this earlier? You know? And same with us.
It's like, then you then you look at our amounts and like, okay. We increased our fees by 30%. It's like, why don't you do it earlier? But I but I think having that, I think for people at first, it's like the the short term mindset of why would I they think, oh, I'm spending extra money to close these deals, but you're really not. Right?
You're actually making more money on all of these deals. So I I I think that educational piece for a lot of people has been you know, the part that I'm trying to get across more is just educating people on what transactional funding is and why you need it to actually scale your business. You know?
Speaker: This may be a bit of a hard analogy for people to understand. But, like, I remember I mean, I told you I listened to a lot of your podcast. There was a a lot of the theme that came up on some of the podcast I was listening when I was trying to scale the business was, like, it's hard to delegate. Right? The biggest problem a lot of solopreneurs have is that they they can't delegate, or they're afraid to delegate to somebody else their job, what they're doing, because they do it so well, and they're afraid to delegate it.
Right? And I think I had that problem. And then, you know, we hired, like, the recruiter that we have or or executive assistant or, you know, the best hire I think we've made was this AI guy that we hired, from, like, an ops standpoint, like, behind the scenes kinda guy. He's the best hire we've made probably. Or the recruit this guy Sebastian that we've hired or Aaron.
I mean, there's a million of them. But, like, the point is the amount of work that those guys, like, we we pay that guy a lot of money like 6 figures, like, multiple, you know, 6 figures and what I realized is like I was kinda like damn we're paying this guy a lot of money. Mhmm. And I don't know if we should do this. Yeah.
But, the amount we've gotten back from hiring Sebastian or Aaron or Santiago, like, it's a hard thing to get over in your mind, but then once you get going in it, you you realize, like, oh, that I should've done that years ago. Mhmm. You know what I mean? Mhmm. And, and I think it's the same with this.
It's, like, maybe people can't get over the hump of, like, I gotta change the way I'm doing the transactions because maybe it's working how I'm doing it right now. But they'll realize how much more control they have, how much, you know, kind of less liability they have, actually, and just what the downstream effects of doing it should be or could be. Right? Of, like, getting more business in the door because of it or maybe having more leverage so you can push your fees a little higher, right, on each deal. Well, I
Speaker: mean, I think just the number we talked about. Right? Like, you went from four to eight, but, like, 4,000,000, 8,000,000 year over year doubling your business, but you could look at that. You didn't do significantly more transactions. You just made more
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Per deal.
Speaker: We actually did I think we did yeah, we we made more per deal. We did, like yeah. The transactions did not go up proportionally to the revenue. Right. Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah. So I think there's that, and then you got the the control, which, like, I think is underestimated. Like, how much how having you can scale more if your transactions are easier.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: The easier transactions are, the more volume you can do. Right. We don't really talk about it. We're talking about how to do more deals, grind, hustle, and so on. But like
Speaker: That's probably the best deal.
Speaker: Is like you got a lot less stress Yeah. Because you can manage transaction.
Speaker: Less minutiae, less, you know Yeah. BS with the buy I mean, maybe the buyers aren't causing you BS. Right? But just the c the peace of mind and the security of knowing, like I mean, I remember thinking, like, back to it now. Like, I remember getting to the closing table and having a 70,000 or $90,000 fee or even a $50,000 fee.
Right? And it's like you're like, damn. Is this gonna you know? You're waiting for that title company to be like, it's closed, you know? And the buyer didn't call you and say, what the hell is this?
Or the seller didn't say, what the hell is this? You know what I mean? That peace of mind, like you're saying, like, to just keep moving forward. It's like you mentioned Tom Brady earlier. I I talked to the sales guys yesterday in Florida.
I was like, all these investors, we we sent them a deal that was like, it's a single. It's like an easy deal. You'll be in and out in three weeks back on the market. Some of these investors are like, it's not sexy. It's not a home run.
And I'm like, Ted Williamson bat 400 hitting home runs every time. Tom Brady, Bill Belichick in his book talks about Tom Brady, why he was the best quarterback. It was because he didn't move the ball backwards. He moved it forwards. He took in took care of the football, and he moved it forwards.
Yeah. And he, you know, maybe he didn't lead the league in touchdowns. Like, took him forever to beat Drew Brees, right, in touchdowns. But, like, he moved the ball forward. Right.
Speaker: You don't give him ground.
Speaker: You don't give him Yeah.
Speaker: The even myself, you know, I'm in Arizona. Yeah. But, like, we haven't had a strong need for transaction funding. Right. Because we had the sellers didn't know.
Right. But, like, buyers, you know, like, if we knew, you know, if we never done a deal before and 50 k assignment fee, I will double close.
Speaker: Oh, 100%. Right.
Speaker: But if we done deals before Yeah. And probably my 50 k fee, well, then you can go screw yourself. Right? Yeah. And for us but if we've done business before, I'm making a 100 k fee, I'll still double close.
Speaker: Yeah. Because Mhmm.
Speaker: I just don't know what's gonna happen
Speaker: day of.
Speaker: Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. A 100%. That was what I would do. I was like, I'd have to go find the money. Luckily, it was Pueblo, Colorado.
It wasn't very, like, high price point. So Yeah. But, yeah, it's there's the peace of mind. Now the other thing that I don't think we mentioned is, like, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, all these states that are coming out with this legislation, this is gonna be that was another reason that we're kinda like, oh, this is even more of a reason to start start this company and try to Yeah. Put this utility out there for people.
Because the people in you know the you know all the states, so I'll let you talk about that. But it's, like, those people in those states, they need this. Right? They can't I'm not as familiar with that shit. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I think a big part of it is getting ahead of it too. When we're at CG, I think he was talking about it. They had a situation with a deal, and, it was literally, like, closing day, and then they found out that they couldn't assign it anymore. And it was, like, on I forget who it was and what state it was, but it was, like, literally, like, on closing day. And it's, like, getting ahead of it in, like, those situations so you're not, like, trying to pull it all together on closing day.
Like, how can I get this money? You know? Because, like, I feel like these these changes and regulations are happening. I mean, I don't wanna speak to all them in every state. Like, they are constantly changing.
You know? Not so. And there's always workarounds and whatever. But but yeah. I mean, I think it's also just getting ahead of those is just you know, it's it's worth it so you're not in that situation.
Speaker: Well, I think that's one of the other things that we you and I talked about. Right? Like, transaction funding is, like, it's one of those things where, like, you don't really need it until, like, you really need it. Yeah. And then it's, like, kinda too late.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. If someone wants to find out about Flip Fund Capital, how how do they find out more about that?
Speaker: You can go to our website, just flipfundcapital.com. Super easy. Super easy. And you can, on there, you can just hit, like, get funding now, and it'll fill out, like, a form, and then either me or one of my account execs will reach out to you.
Speaker: Gotcha. We'll get
Speaker: you set up. But we make the process super easy too. I mean, I know that that's something that we talked about. Like, there's extra steps with it, but, like, we're all we were wholesalers. Right?
Like, I wholesale for six plus years. Like, I get it. I've done assignments, done double closed system, pass throughs. Like, we I wanna make it as easy as possible. Like, obviously, yes, there is, you know, extra paperwork, whatever.
But at the same time, like, it's pretty straightforward. Like, most people, after they do it, they're like, that was it. You know? Like, we do make it very easy for you and affordable too. So Yeah.
So it doesn't, you know, hurt your company. It helps it.
Speaker: Got it. Wrapping up here. Yep. What are some last thoughts you would like to leave all the listeners with?
Speaker: I mean, I think a big theme to all of this is just like, you know, not being afraid to, like, make these little changes in your company, to be able to, like, scale long term. You know, whether it being, you know, spending more money maybe short term on a deal or hiring that extra person, you know, thinking, oh, it's gonna, you know, maybe break the bank, you know, paying them a $100 a year or $200 a year or whatever. But, you know, not not being afraid of those things if it is the right business decision long term. Mhmm. You know, just kind of, like, looking at the big picture versus versus the short term, I think, is really big in this in this business to, like, actually scale.
Speaker: Yeah. How about yourself?
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I think something to leave people with. So, like, if you, you know, for me, it's kinda it's like I said, it's crazy. It's like full circle, right, sitting here. I think if you just put the consistent work in.
Right? I go back to, like, Bill Ackman talks about, like, me getting 1%. Have you ever seen that clip getting 1% better each day? Mhmm. Like, when you start a business, you're going to have trials, tribulations.
You're gonna get hit in the face. You're gonna have, you know I've had months where, like, I've called her and or called someone else, and they're like, you need to go take a nap, or you need to just leave the office today because, like, you know, litigation or whatever it is. Right? And it's like you're going through this, you're going through that, you're trying to scale this, you're trying to do all this stuff. Just get 1% better.
Right? And whether that's get 1% better in your marketing, get 1% better on the p and l, get 1% better with how you adjust, make pivots, and and change how you're doing things to get 1% better. Like, you might not see that 1%, but I promise you at the end of the year, you're gonna be like, woah.
Speaker: Look at
Speaker: where we got to. Right? And if you just maniacally do that every day, you know, I don't think the business would have ever started. I never would have met Nadav if I didn't find Cody and Mark and this podcast and their YouTube videos and Sean Terry's YouTube. Like, so many crazy little things or make that first call.
Right? Or drive around and write addresses down that who knew if they were gonna come to anything. Right? And now today, it's not like that stuff. It's like, let's get 1% better in how we're onboarding people.
Let's get 1% better in how we're training. Let's get 1% better in how we're, you know, the systems in the company. Can we get rid of a couple systems that are costing us $50 a year and add an extra $100 to the bottom bottom line? Like, it's just these little things that you do the whole year. And it's funny because, like, myself, Ryan Kern, I think, like, Nada, we all look at each other at the end of the year.
And I every year it's happened and we're, like, damn, look at where we got to this year. This is crazy. Right? Maybe we didn't like, last year, we didn't hit our goal. Mhmm.
We were crazy. We thought we'd hit 16,000,000. We were out of our minds at the end of twenty three. And we hit eight. We were like, we doubled our revenue.
Right? And it was just 1% better every week. And if flip fund can be maybe that's how people can get 1% better. Right? It's like if you need your, like, maybe you I remember I didn't pay my taxes for a whole year because it was like my taxes were like $60 or something.
I would like $60 in taxes. That was our earnest money one year. Like, that was literally the earnest money. Yeah. And I'm, like, we can't do that amount of earnest money on this deal.
We gotta cut that in half. We only have this amount in that that account. Mhmm. And if flip fund can help somebody with that. Right?
Yeah. And, like, I just ate the penalties, but it we got 1% better. It paid itself. It it paid for itself. But my point is that if Flipfunk can help that person that's doing eight or 10 deals a month, right, and needs the earnest money, needs that capital to go do the marketing or do whatever scale continue to run their business or whatever.
You know, that's something maybe we can help with. Right? And but aside from that, just get 1% better every day. If you add one percent every day.
Speaker: Awesome. Well Yeah.
Speaker: It was awesome.
Speaker: Thank you so much.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you. Thank you
Speaker: guys for watching. See you guys next time.
Speaker: Steve train.
Speaker: Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
