Ian Ross: You're a moron if you're dealing with objections at the end of every sale. You're an idiot and you follow a dumb process and you have a dumb trainer.
Speaker 1: Because it's not the ideal process. There's no reason to have to make things harder for yourself.
Ian: If someone says I need to talk to my spouse before I make any decisions earlier on in the call and you go, boy, I hope I convey enough value with my memorized presentation that when I do a quick option close at the end, they'll just move forward and forget that they told me they have to talk to their spouse. Right. You're a moron. Mhmm. And whoever told you to follow that process is equally as dumb if not dumber.
Because they've seen this not happen over and over again. The fact that they haven't noticed that this is a problem means you should stop listening to them, and they're not the greatest of all time.
Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors. Today, we have Ian Ross with the Close More Sales podcast to talk about how to get prospects to close themselves. Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. Information on this show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years.
If you'll take consistent action, you will become one. And, guys, if you get value out of today's show, please hit that subscribe button. That way we can all grow together. Now the reason why Ian is back again for a third time is that we look at the analytics, and we've noticed that some of the most listened to episodes are when we talk about sales. So let's talk about sales.
Sure. Now, you have a passion project or a passion term. You go by Vivid Selling on Instagram. Mhmm. Right?
And we haven't really talked a lot about Vivid Selling and what that means. Yeah. So let's talk about it. What is Vivid Selling?
Ian: Yeah. And this got brought up because when I started the Close Marcellus podcast, you're like, you should have it be your name because people have searched for your name. They're gonna wanna identify you, and every variation imaginable of my name is taken on Instagram. Ian dot ross, the ian ross, the rillian ross, ian underscore it's ross, ian. It's all taken.
It's like John Smith in Scotland, so it's a very popular name. So I stuck to the name Vivid Selling. And what Vivid Selling is, it's a framework that I came up with, so it wasn't taken, that's entirely built around the right order of which questions to ask someone in a sales conversation to get them to feel like this was their idea. Mhmm. So Vivid is an acronym that stands for a few words that is a different section for me asking questions to move some someone through the sale.
Steve: Yeah. So Before we get into Vivint Sure. Right? Because you're talking about for them to feel like it's they're taking action.
Ian: Mhmm.
Steve: And one of the things that we came up with in the last few months is, like, what's our philosophy? You know, when we talk about our sales training, like, why our sales why our sales training versus all the other options. Right? And one of those is we don't close people. Right?
We get them to sell themselves. Yeah. And one of the reasons why is, you know, Chris Voss talks about a lot in Never Spoke the Difference in that people's desire for autonomy will sometimes be stronger than desire to help themselves. So true. Now you're a maverick.
We were talking about this for the show. I'm an individualist. One of the best ways to make sure we don't do something is to require and demand that we do it. It's the most default way
Ian: you can guarantee I will do something is you tell me I can't do it, and the way to get me to not do something is tell me I have to do it. That's
Steve: very true. Yeah. Right. Outside of marriage. Right?
When the wife says do the dishes, like, you do
Ian: the dishes. She's actually gotten smart. She's like, you probably don't wanna do the dishes right now. And I'm like, I'll do the dishes all day. What are you talking about?
She's she's smart enough now that she's
Steve: figured that out.
Ian: She's using the like, she's treating me like I'm a toddler to get me to
Speaker: do stuff all the time because I'm
Steve: Smart woman.
Ian: Yeah. I say, like, I'm not a I'm not a complicated man. A very simple you tell me I can't do something or I shouldn't, that'll get me to take action.
Steve: Absolutely. So going back to the the reason why you created the Vivid selling framework was so that it was their idea Yes. And they're doing it for their reasons and justifications. Right? So getting people to sell themselves.
So I just wanna kinda highlight that point. The the traditional sales process, pushing people to take action, demanding. Right? Like, one of the reasons why I struggle so hard in sales for majority of my career is because when it came time to push them for the close, ask for the order Yeah. It's always so uncomfortable, and there's always this resistance.
Do you wanna talk about that real quick before we get into the Vivid framework?
Ian: Yeah. I mean, the first sales book that I ever read and really, like, digested to try and absorb that I wanna take action on was The Way of the Wolf by Jordan Belfort. And that has a great, like, section, chapter, great covering on tonality and being intentional with tonality. That has inspired me immensely. My biggest differentiator from Jordan Belfort and, by extension, most traditional sales training In Jordan Belfort's straight line system and how most people sell anything involves an aspect of pushing someone towards the sale.
Mhmm. You push them down the straight line. You push them towards the product. You ask for the sale. They reveal a hesitation, and then you push and push and push until they crack and goes and say fine.
Mhmm. And I have seen over and over again in multiple industries with different levels of prospects, different price points, different reasons to buy, that the best way to not only get someone to take action, but then not change their mind, not cancel the credit card or email a cancellation or back out of a contract or go never mind or ghost you or any of those things is for them to feel like they wanted to do this in the first place. Mhmm. The best compliment I ever got when selling solar was after spending I just finished never split the difference. After spending two hours in someone's home just mirroring the guy the whole time
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: The wife came out and told and when she saw we were moving forward, felt the need. She had to tell me, hey. Just so you know, like, we're moving forward because we wanted to, not because you're a good salesperson. And my thought process was, like, the reason you think that is because I'm a great salesperson. Right.
Like but, of course, I was like, no. I barely said anything. This was all your idea. Yeah. If I can get and what was key about that one, I I was right before I went on vacation.
There was, like, a hiccup with financing or inspection or something, so my manager had to get it across the line with the hiccup. And when I got back from vacation, my manager at that company asked me. He's like he was worried that I had promised solar could do something he couldn't Mhmm. Because the guy was so resolved of, like, no. I I need to keep doing this even though they kept on having a financing problem.
They kept on being issues. He was like, what did you tell this guy? Because I've never seen someone so resolved to get something across the line. Usually, you encounter one hiccup Mhmm. In the post sale process, and they're like, I'm done.
Yeah. And he kept going. What did you promise? Did you tell him this is gonna save his marriage or something? It's like, no.
This was his idea. I had nothing to do with this. I just got out of the way in guiding you to make that decision.
Steve: And I wanna kinda touch on this, right, where she was saying, like, you're not a good salesperson. Right? Right. And the the way we I always like to equate this into sports. You know?
I can't remember who the the Saints were playing. Maybe it was the Niners or whoever. But there was, like, a pretty blatant transparent pass interference. Right? And then, you know, the joke was, like, the refs were betting on the game.
And so if you think about, like, the typical horrific, sporting event, it's because we could see the officiating. Right. Right? If you notice the refs, it's a bad ref. True.
But if you don't notice the refs, that's a well officiated game. Right? And I think this kinda lines up with your process. Like, they didn't see the sell happening.
Ian: Right. Yeah. We've talked about not showing the seams of the sale a little bit, like, showing the magic trick. And if I can do this right, I'm simply having a conversation with you. And at the end of it, you either decide yourself based on what you tell me that what I recommended makes sense or it doesn't.
It's entirely up to you. And I give you that sensation the entire way across through a variety of tactics and techniques while moving someone through the Vivid selling framework Mhmm. To have the emotional trajectory make the most sense for them to feel like they decided to take action right now.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So going back into this. So Vivid is an acronym?
Ian: Yes. It stands so v I v I d. The first v is provision. The second one is identify, validate impact decision. So how I think about that is in moving someone through different phases of the sale, in my mind, I am moving them through different phases of types of questions I am asking them to arrive at the right type of conclusion at the end.
So it's the vision from to where they wanna go, like, what their goals are, what they're trying to accomplish. After I finish that stage, I get in I identify the gap between where they are right now, their current circumstances Mhmm. And where they wanna be. The middle v is not a step as much of as a philosophy, which is validate their hesitations and concerns at all times, but not necessarily agree with it. So give them the sensation that they heard, but not necessarily agree with the value of their hesitation.
Then the the money is made on the impact of not taking action. I often try and quantify the problem and quantify what this has cost to them to do nothing. Because to me, the real enemy is not a competitor. It's not the market. It's inaction.
If I do this right, the scariest thing for me is you doing nothing. Inaction is the cost. What's the cost of not doing anything? Mhmm. How is that gonna affect you?
What are the other ripple effects of that? You don't make any changes. What could it what could this be like? What are you missing out on? That type of idea.
And then finally, the decision. What would they like to decide to do? Mhmm. And the way I organize the closing question always has variables. There's no exact closing question that I can say, ask this closing question and move forward every time because it will always have variables based on what they have told me throughout the conversation.
Speaker 3: Right.
Steve: So starting, with the first v. Right? So vision. So then how do we build out this vision where they wanna go?
Ian: It's so important. And, also, the reason I'm starting with vision because other sales process might say find the problem first. Mhmm. And that's fine. There's an aspect of trying to justify that this is a lead worthy of running your sales process.
So I'm to me, the ideal emotional trajectory of a sales conversation is gain to pain to pen. Pen is deciding to sign and take action. If there's enough pain, we can skip the gain entirely because pain is what causes action, causes urgency to change it now. So many sales processes involve finding the problem, and then when I solve it, won't that be great? Sign here right now.
Mhmm. The problem with that trajectory emotionally is that when you end on the gain, people might think this sounds great, but it doesn't inspire urgency. Mhmm. The avoidance of pain, the negative emotion, the negative motivation is what inspires you to wanna fix this right now, not this sounds great. I'm gonna fix this next week.
Mhmm. So by the even though you might still get plenty of sales ending on gain, you're running a substandard process because you're not creating urgency in the way you ask questions. So I'm starting with vision because it's not only does that give me the option to talk about what if you can't achieve that and create pain in taking away the gain you verbalize, but, also, it's easier for people to talk about positive things. Mhmm. If I start a sales conversation and go, like, what are you missing out on?
You're gonna be more on guard. You're not gonna be willing to reveal to me all the nuances of what your real problems are because it's too early on in the conversation. You haven't built the right type of rapport, which is trust that I'm an expert worthy of telling your problems to. I'd much rather start with easier questions that are easier to talk about, which is how great things could be. What do you wanna change?
So it depends on what you're selling. If you're selling sales training, the vision of how great things could be is a different, outcome than if you're trying to buy someone's house at a discount. Right? So to be clear. But if in the instance of selling something where there is a gain like a program, something that they're investing in themselves Mhmm.
I'm always asking questions like, you know, I start broad. Almost all these start broad and get more specific. So it'd be like, what would you like, what are some of your goals in the next three to five years? Okay. Like, tell me a little bit more about that.
Okay. If you're doing that, how much money would you actually be making? Okay. If you're and if you're making that much money, is that different from what you're doing right now? Okay.
So if you're making that excess amount, what would your life look like with that excess? I'm starting to paint a vivid picture, no pun intended, about the vision of the future. And the more specific we can get by also grounding you in reality in the actual visuals, the more powerful that picture will be. Yeah. So I love talking about a moment in time, a sensation you could be at.
So, like, okay. If you're making oh, if we get you this, you're gonna make an extra 20,000 a month, you're saying, if if if your business worked out the way you want it. Okay. What would your life be like if you were making an extra almost quarter million a year? What what like, would you take more trips?
What's what's the trip you if you're if you had that type of mind, what's the first trip you envisioned taking your wife on? Mhmm. Like, what would that moment be? Okay. You're sitting on a on a yacht, you know, floating off of Monaco.
You've saved up to be able to give her this experience. Like, how are you feeling when the sun's beating on your face? I'm I'm tethering that sensation to a moment in time. The more you can visualize that in real time as a sensation, the more powerful it will be when I take it away asking you to make a decision.
Steve: And that's when we get to identify?
Ian: Yeah. Now I start identifying is starting to ask questions about, like, I'm hearing all these things. Like, what's been stopping you from starting to get those results? Mhmm. What are the challenges been?
What have you already tried? Or maybe what's stopping you from really making a real attempt? Mhmm. I'm starting starting to chip away at the vision by pulling you back to what you've already done and what you're trying to do. What is missing that's getting you to that vision?
What's also clear is that you gotta be careful because, like, this is the Vivid is the framework, but the nuances of how you ask those questions and move between the those questions is its own kind of thing. Because sometimes I might ask, what do you envision the challenge to be, that's stopping you from getting there? And they might reveal some type of problem. I can give you a perfect example. It just happened not too long ago where I was I I sell sales training.
I was asking someone after they described this really great vision for their business, what's stopping you from getting there? And it was, to him, all marketing. His sales was amazing. The sales didn't need any help. It was all marketing.
Steve: Of course.
Ian: Right? Which is the normal aspect. So I expect that.
Steve: Everybody that's struggling in sales thinks it's a marketing problem.
Ian: It couldn't possibly be me. I'm the I'm the goat. Yeah. I'm the best salesperson of all time. But what what's the problem there is if I'm asking more questions about what you just said Mhmm.
You're talking about the wrong issue. Mhmm. So I now need to go underneath that issue or insert some doubt as to that being the reason or insert a new belief so I can get you on a talk track where it makes more sense to ask more questions. If I'm asking you more about the marketing problem and I cannot solve your marketing problem, that doesn't work. So the nuances of making sure they answer the right way is another another level underneath that we wouldn't have time to go into today.
But I I wanna make sure assuming that you are playing ball with my questions enough where the your answers make sense for what I want to move towards the next question, I just wanna figure out everything you've tried, what's holding you back, what's not working. Mhmm. Right? That's what I'm starting to do. Like, what is what do you need to improve to get to that vision, or at least take the first steps towards going towards the vision of what you wanna accomplish?
Steve: Right. And then we get to
Ian: Validate. Now that's just that's really just my approach to handling with either objections or ops of it because it's validate, but not necessarily agree with their hesitations and concerns at all times. Mhmm. I differentiate here because I've heard Grant Cardone say always agree with your prospect. And I even heard someone who I really respect, who is actually my dream person to get on the Close Marcellus podcast when he's ready, is Alex Ramosi.
Mhmm. I even heard him get this wrong on a training, which was he gave the example well, Grant Carden always you know, was was a car sales guy to begin with. Mhmm. And I always say, if I'm selling Mercedes Benz and we're on the lot and someone's standing there and goes, you know, I hate Mercedes. I can't go, I agree with you.
Mercedes are terrible. Buy this anyway. Right? The agree like, the agree doesn't work. Mhmm.
But giving an objection is just the raising of a shield. And I wanna I don't wanna hit the shield head on because if I don't knock out of your hand, then you're gonna dig in harder. I gotta just give you the sensation of walking around it. And agreeing and validating are both the sensation of walking around, but I wanna avoid the potential mix up of maybe agreeing with you if it's not the case. And Hormozi got this wrong because he gave an example of talking about a software product, and someone goes, I hate this feature from your product.
Mhmm. And he goes, I agree with you. It's no good, but tell me more about that. Like, that's crazy. Why would you agree with the thing?
But I wanna give you he's right about the sensation. I don't wanna fight them on that point. So I would say some in the Mercedes example, I would say, you know, I've heard that before. Typically, the reason I've noticed in the past someone doesn't like Mercedes would be because either they didn't like people they knew who drove it or they had a bad experience with one particular model from the past. I'm curious why is that coming up for you now.
Mhmm. I seek more clarity about the reasoning, but I still give the sensation of I'm not fighting you on your objection without agreeing it. So it's We're and the point here is that you're not trying
Steve: to overcome or make them, like, defend their position is while they're saying they agree, we're saying, I can see how all you feel that way. Yes. Let's explore why you feel this way.
Ian: Exactly. So we can actually realize maybe that doesn't relate to this model here if it's a Mercedes. If it's you don't like this feature you say, I hate this feature of this tech thing. What do you hate about this feature? Oh, I hate that it forces me to do this.
Oh, if there's a way we could make it, it didn't force you to do that. Would you care about the feature? Oh, no. That was I just thought it was that problem. Mhmm.
It's just understanding the root cause of why they say that. Now they might say something that you do agree with. That's why I say validate, but not necessarily agree with, not never agree with. You can if you agree.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: But I'm trying to give a framework that can be applied in all circumstances so I can follow a best practice to move someone across the line of a sales conversation. So I need to make sure I validate but not necessarily agree with. Mhmm. So it's I've heard things like that before. I get where you're coming from with that.
You know, like, that's or even the first time I've heard that, but
Speaker: that makes sense to me.
Ian: Or just my most neutral thing, like, okay. That makes sense. Mhmm. Okay. Sure.
I'm just I'm validating your that your pushback and hesitation and concerns. I'd be careful to not necessarily agree so I don't shoot myself in the foot. Right. So that's the middle v. That just permeates throughout the whole process.
I'm always validating your hesitations and concerns, whether it's an objection going at the end of the sale, which is now I need to think it over, or an obstacle that left unattended to will become an objection, which is the thing that not enough people talk about either. Because so many salespeople are so focused on, let me present what I do and read my script on how to present what I do, that they're not using active listening skills to notice the person just told them a thing. And if I don't deal with this now, if I don't call out the elephant in the room, this will be an objection at the end. 100%. And at the end, emotions are higher, and it's way harder to overcome it if I wait till the end.
One of the things that we immediately aligned with when we started talking about sales the first time was the ideal scenario means there are no objections at the end. Mhmm. Because if I did this right, the natural conclusion by the time we've reached the end of the conversation is simply to move forward. I I if you're running a process where you are asking, and here here's the price. Do you wanna do this option or this option?
And they give you an objection that, like, is out of left field and you have no idea why, you're not running an ideal process. You can make plenty of money Mhmm. Doing that process. I wanna be clear because I always have to say this because you speak in extremes Mhmm. Online I probably should speak in more extremes because it makes the clip go more viral.
I don't
Steve: It does.
Ian: It does. I don't do a good oh, you know what? I'll reframe it for the extremes. You're a moron if you're dealing with objections at the end of every sale. You're an idiot and you follow a dumb process and you have a dumb trainer.
I'll say that there. Okay? So because
Speaker: it's not the ideal process. There's no reason to have to make things harder for yourself.
Ian: You don't have to make things harder on yourself. You can simply if someone says I need to talk to my spouse before I make any decisions earlier on in the call and you go, boy, I hope I convey enough value with my memorized presentation that when I do a a quick option close at the end, they'll just move forward and forget that they told me they have to talk to their spouse. Right. You're a moron. Mhmm.
And whoever told you to follow that process is equally as dumb, if not dumber, because they've seen this not happen over and over again. And the fact that they haven't noticed that this is a problem means you should stop listening to them, and they're not the greatest of all time. So that that's the validate that's the validate section there. Yeah. I'm filming this video for
Speaker: the man himself, mister Ian Ross. The guy crushes. The guy's the best person in sales I've ever seen. I've invested elsewhere and haven't got the same results. I've gone from being a set up, making 5 k a month, to being a hybrid role, making 11 k a month, to now be four months down the line from 5 k to on a closing opportunity, inbound, full calendar with the best opportunity, the best offer in my space.
OTE is around 20 k a month from month two. So I've gone from 5 k to 20 k. If that's not a return on your investment, I don't know what it is, man. If you're a salesperson and you don't invest in sales training, you're gonna get left behind because your job is to be better at sales, and sales training directly makes you more money. My name is Lance McCann.
I've recently switched in sessions with Ian Ross. Those conversations with Ian has made me $50,000 in the past two deals that I've had. I was able to renegotiate, go back and renegotiate the original purchase price on one deal, and I saved $40,000, and I got another $10,000 off by other deals. Call me in, give me a chance.
Ian: I'm getting ready. If you like what you just heard and you'd like to have similar types of results, similar success, text close, c l o s e, to 33777, and we'll see if you qualify to join Advanced Sales Mastery. We are taking people from good to great.
Steve: Alright. And then impact.
Ian: Yeah. Impact is starting to get into quantifying the problem. Mhmm. Because to me and I I I really wanna make this point. And I because I've I've heard you say a version of this too, and I really wanna make sure I'm clear what I mean by this.
When I say, what is sales? I usually describe it. I've come to the point of describing it as the creation of certainty. So I've also heard it said many times over, and I don't disagree with it in theory that sales has changed. Right?
Like, you know that idea. Sales has changed. Mhmm. In the context of the professional, I don't think that isn't that is clear enough for what the goal should be. Mhmm.
Because the real way it doesn't say, is it a change for the better? Is it a change for the worse? Is it a change that involves transactions? Like, what is sales really? Sure.
It's change, But as the professionals whose job it is to have a conversation where at the end, they feel certain to wanna buy, the most important thing is that your prospect feels like whatever they have to spend, whatever they have to give up to get the end result is minor in comparison to the benefits that they would be trading that for. Mhmm. It
Speaker: has to be lesser than, not an equal exchange.
Ian: That's because there's always a risk of that this won't work, and this I'm putting myself I'm exposing myself. I'll look stupid if it doesn't work. Mhmm. So it always needs to feel less of a risk than not taking action on the thing.
Steve: Yeah. Well, I think the the key here is they have this sensation, like, I have to do this. Right. Right? Like, please whether it's please buy my house now or give me the freaking product.
I wanna walk out of here with this on my wrist or whatever, but they're closing themselves.
Ian: Yes.
Steve: They're closing you. Like, I need this. Get out of my way so I can have it. Exactly.
Ian: So my goal in saying that sales is the creation of certainty is making sure that at all times I aligned with making sure in the prospect's brain, they are certain that this change is something they need to do right now because not taking action on it is far more costly than the risk of looking stupid for getting a thing that doesn't work or the risk of all the negative consequences that could happen if they don't buy into whatever it is I'm I'm trying to sell.
Steve: And I might add just in that on top of being certain, conviction. Like, they need conviction. Like, I have to do this. Sure.
Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Because I I theoretically, someone could be certain but not feel the pain of that certainty.
It might be like because that to me, that's ending on gain. Oh, I'm certain I want this, but I'm not I don't have an urgency to do this now. The conviction with that certainty, to me, is the definition of urgency. Right. Like, now I need to do this.
Not I need to do this next week. And that's
Steve: how we get that urgency.
Ian: That's how we get the urgency. So to me, I always want to try and quantify the problem in some way, shape, or form. And by quantify the problem, I mean, quantify in action, as in how much is doing nothing costing you. Mhmm. It like, so based on the numbers you revealed to me in your vision, and then we've talked about it, how great things could be, Like, okay.
It sounds like you're missing on at 20,000 a month on the short term, and you said you could reinvest some of that into your business. And over five years, you'd be making 1,000,000 a year at that return. So how different is what you're making right now from a million a year? It's 800,000. So it sounds like doing nothing is costing you $800,000 every single year.
Like, that's if you don't make any changes, and, like you said, you're gonna reinvest some of that, how much are you missing out on in terms of a decade? Like, the lifestyle you could have with that, the lifestyle you could give to others, to the people you care about, what are you depriving them by deciding to do nothing? I need to create a pain associated with an action. There needs to and the more I quantify that Mhmm. The easier it can be.
I I love asking questions, giving away the secret. But, like, I'll ask questions like, hey. Game theory wise, if you were could if you could be making $800,000 a year inside of five years, what would it even be worth to you assuming this could get you those results? Right. I if anyone is answering that even remotely, intellectually, honestly, it'll be less than my charge.
Mhmm. So even if so they'll you know? Well, theoretically, if 800,000 a year takes three years, that's hard to pay a $100,000 for that. Okay. So you probably don't even have a $100,000 to pay into that.
No. Realistically, what do you even have access to? We're just talking hypothetically around numbers, but we're talking about we're tethering the benefits not even to how great this program will be in a week, but what your life could look like in a decade. And the emotional imbalance of not taking action and everything staying the same or deciding, you know, this feels a little scary. That's more money that I wanted to spend, but I know I can I can take action on this?
This is this you know what? I'm someone who when I spend money, I take action on the thing. I'm that type of person. I'm gonna do this. If I can do that right, then the way I talk about the impact of not taking action should give you a sensation of it's crazy for me not to take this risk for whatever the cost is because of the vision I just verbalized to this person asking me questions.
Right.
Steve: Gotcha. It's funny. I just had a call earlier today, and I was asking her, like, how much has costed her, like, not having their their their sales floor org, trained. And she's like, I mean, I think we've lost, like, eight contracts so far. I was like, how how much is that?
I was like, oh, you know, like, 35,000. It's like, oh, okay. So maybe a quarter mil. And as we're going through, it's like, man, that's just the ones you can remember.
Ian: Yeah. Right?
Steve: And then later on, she's like, saw what you did there. Good. So you're aware. Like, see, we we we do what we preach. And then getting to decision.
Ian: Yeah. So depending on what you sell, whoever's listening to this podcast, and depending on, how they're positioning things, there could be different ways you close it. Like, my favorite closing questions always have variables in it, recapping what we talked about. And I've heard you say this on our, a a two day event, which is that when you are running your appointment, you're asking your questions the person, they're revealing to you all their pain, that is you gathering all the tools on the table that you are going to use to close the sale. Right.
So how good my questions are, how deep I got you to go, what I got you to say to me is going to play into my variables for the closing question. So in the instance of selling sales training, in this instance, I might be like, okay. If we can, you know, you know, get you started on the program so you can finally get to the process of making that extra 20,000 a month so that you can not only take your wife on that trip, but also start reinvesting back into the business so that five, ten years from now, not only will you be making not only 1,000,000 a year, but you're not gonna be missing out on seeing your peers pass you by as you've been afraid to take action on stuff so far. We can do all that, and it's not gonna cost you a $100. It's gonna cost you x amount.
How should we prioritize this? It's so much more powerful because it's the words that they revealed to me. Exactly. I'm hitting the microphone. I'm so excited.
It's so much more powerful because I'm using their words back to me and using their trajectory, what they wanna do Mhmm. To ask them what like, how should we prioritize this? Like and I'll often say, hey. If we can do those things, do you even feel like that would be helpful? I and they're like, well, yeah.
I don't know if I have the money. Okay. Is it that you don't even have access to being able to to pay for this thing, or is it because you're not entirely sure, like, oh, I could pay for it. I don't even know if I'll show up to the calls and take action on it. I'm letting you go like, no.
I would show up to I would take act if I'm gonna spend that money, I would take action on it. Okay. So you would you if you paid that amount of money, you would actually show up to the calls and go, like, I'm gonna apply this. Oh, no. I'm the type of guy to do that.
Okay. It sounds like that even by the very nature of choosing to invest in this, would start you on the trajectory of getting those results, or am I missing something? No. I I guess it would. Do you guess?
No. It would. I'm always doubling down if I hear any certainty because I'm creating certainty in your mind, and I need you to verbalize that certainty if I want you to take action. Action. I don't wanna be the hero in your the story of your life where you changed your business, you changed whatever you're doing.
I'm simply the guide who pointed you in the right direction and let you go have your own journey.
Steve: Yeah. And so so this is all part of Vivint selling. And, guys, you know, if you guys are getting value here, Ian has his own podcast. It's the Close More Sales podcast. So you guys can definitely check that out there.
There's a couple different things here where I think you and I are slightly different.
Ian: Mhmm.
Steve: So you're talking about if someone's buying something. Right? But where we're typically having the conversations, more often than not, the people I work with are buying houses. Sure. And when we're buying houses, we generally go to pain and then gain and then loss of that gain as additional pain.
Ian: Sure.
Steve: Right? So, but, like, if you're buying a product, you know, the things I've said is, you know, you're buying a car, buying a watch, buying travel or, you know, MLM. Right? We're typically selling something that you can kinda see. Sure.
Right? And when you're selling something, you kinda see it. Like, now you can picture yourself experiencing it. Right? So we go there and, like, okay.
But here's where you are today. Versus, like, for us, we're buying houses. Let's just drill down to, like, how awful things are today. Sure. Right?
And then, like, here's what it could be. So our sequence is a little bit different. How much of it or is it because solely that we're buying someone's house and we're going through a or or we're we're dealing with someone that is going through pain and has a is motivated to take action to deal with a problem versus the buying of product.
Ian: The biggest reason it's a different we go into pain first in the talking about buying an asset or buying someone's house in particular is because to justify being worthy of the time of running a whole process and taking an hour and a half plus sometimes, I need to know you're actually worthy of being a prospect for a relatively unique circumstance. What's the percentage of homes that actually don't sell on the MLS every year?
Steve: That don't sell MLS?
Ian: Yeah. Is that, like, 4%, 6%?
Steve: Oh, oh, off the MLS. I got yeah. So 4%, historically, homes sell outside the MLS. Right.
Ian: So there's a a really important aspect that is more or less vetted in most high ticket encounters. Mhmm. It is not the case when talking to someone's home, which is that this is actually someone worthy of running the whole process
Steve: for you.
Ian: And if I'm talking to someone who just happens to be a homeowner, there's so many misconceptions and different steps that I need to qualify them first to justify talking about the gain and then taking away the gain. So there's a pre qualification step that involves the pain first Mhmm. In the emotional trajectory of gain to pain to pain Mhmm. That is more apparent in buying a house because it just chances are Mhmm. What I'm selling you by the time you've come to me in sales training space, you're probably a candidate for.
So it's not there's way more sifting and sorting in talking to people who need to buy out like, sell their home at a discount. Yeah. And so I wanna make sure that I'm I'm clear. Like, I would only go gain to pain to pen if I already knew the person was in enough pain to justify going to the gain stage. Because what you just described and taking away the gain is the same emotional trajectory.
It's just pain first kinda thing.
Steve: Well, because for me, I think the, someone you know, tell tell them a high ticket. Right? High ticket, it's an abstract product. You don't know exactly what you're getting.
Speaker: You can't hold it in your hand. It's a
Steve: intangible product. Right? And so for that, we need them to see it in their mind's eye, right, where they can basically touch it almost. Right? And, like, yeah, but we can't make it work.
Versus, you know, we're talking about buying someone's house. We do that also. But in addition to that, we go really deep in the pain because we need to get them super stressed and emotional. Yeah. Because that's what's gonna compel someone.
Like, getting someone to spend $10.15, 25 here are these things. $80,000 on a high ticket product is someone that is, like, desiring something. Right. Someone that's willing to sell their houses at a steep discount is, like, I just need to get away from this. And I'm moving away from paying.
Right? So one is moving towards, like is going towards something. The other one is moving away, from something. But something that's really important here is, you know, it's funny you call it vivid selling because something that I've been looking at more recently is we need to get so clear on how awful something is today that we can basically if we can't write it out because we've said in their trainings, like, hey. You know, they tell you what it is.
You repeat it back to them, and that demonstrates that you get them. Right? But, like, the highest standard, which, you know, none of us are necessarily artists here, is if you can draw it out for them, and now they can see it. It's like, yeah. This is what's going on.
Here is what's going on. So the more vivid they can see it in their mind's eye how awful everything is, and then have them describe back to you how awesome it's gonna be after you buy their house, after they get their life back. You know, they get back on their feet and so on. And, again, how crystal clear in their mind's eye how it's gonna be. And then but what if we can't make that work?
Ian: Right.
Steve: And that's that pulling out the potential gain. Right? So we go
Ian: from
Steve: pain to gain to loss of gain, which is just another pain. And this this happened recently. I was talking to someone who has a dating offer. Right? And it's like, well, how do we do this in dating?
Okay? And so I was saying, well, if you're trying to sell a dating offer to a guy, let's think about the things that have sucked. So let's talk about the last girl that the conversation or the the relationship did not proceed the way it wanted to go. Sure. As a, hey.
Tell me more about, you know, the last girl didn't go. What happened? What were the things that occurred that, what didn't go the way as planned? What I mean, there's probably not a lot of things that went to plan. Right?
But how did you get friend zoned, basically? Right? Long and short of it is. And then it's like, oh, man. That really sucks.
Because, again, we're selling an abstract product.
Ian: Right? You can't
Steve: you can't hold it in your hand.
Ian: No. You
Steve: can't. And okay. And what about the girl before that? And then we're going through the pain funnel three times. How about the third girl that didn't go the way you want it to go?
And then let's pretend we've got it all figured out. You know how to talk to girls now. Tell me what that life's gonna be like, and have them describe that again in their mind's eye. Because, like, the first three girls are experiences that they've had, and they can re they can refill refill all those emotions again. But then tell me about, you know, when you got this figured out, what's it gonna be like?
Describe it to me again where you can, like, draw it vividly. Right? And then what's that gonna be like? Oh, but there's just one thing I'm worried about. What if we can't work together?
Ian: My biggest concern with starting the conversation with tell me about the girl who rejected you Mhmm. Is that the person might have enough shame that they might not open up immediately about how terrible it was. You do it three times, they might reveal it by the third. But I'd be concerned that the the one who comes to mind was actually probably the more painful one. Mhmm.
They've glossed over that one because it was early on in the conversation. Mhmm. So I would wanna get them trusting me in I'm not a believer in the yes stack. It's not I don't need seven yeses in a row or anything stupid like that, but I do wanna make sure we are in the mode of you feeling comfortable answering my questions. Mhmm.
And so I wanna start that process of me being curious and seeking clarity on what you said before I ask a question that is deeply impactful that I could use to get you across the line. Yeah. So my only concern in that instance if I go tell me about the first one, they might be like, I just didn't really go to plan. I'm like, shoot. That's not that's not enough.
I can say tell me more about that, but I would rather make the process as easy as possible. Mhmm. So for me, I'd rather talk about, like, what were you hoping to get out of this call? Alright. Just I I like to start with what's easier on the brain to answer because my pain questions are really painful.
Mhmm. And so I I if I start that way, I run the risk of, like, butting heads with the prospect because I haven't built enough trust or got them in the mode of answering my questions enough so that it feels like they're comfortable revealing the underlying implications of how bad that was and the shame because someone saw them get rejected. Or I mean, I don't have any experience with the dating offer, but I'm just I'm thinking about if I were to, like, coach that process. Mhmm. My biggest concern would be the very nature of a guy willing to have that conversation.
He might be more closed off if I started the conversation with that question.
Steve: Yeah. All theoretical. It's theoretical. Right?
Ian: It depends on the person. It depends on another thing we're not even talking about, how good the marketing is and how it frame them by the time the conversation was created.
Steve: The thing. Like, the guy that I was coaching up on this is is doing well.
Ian: I'm sure his marketing is crushing it by the time they're getting to the call.
Steve: But he's also a really good marketer. And so, like, they already bought the product. They already bought the upsell, and then they booked the call. Got it. Right?
So, like, they've because there's a little bit of negative self admittance. Right? There's a little bit of, like, hey. I'm not player. Right.
So there's already a little bit of, like, you had to be in such a spot where you will you admitted to yourself because you have to admit to yourself you're not good with the ladies Sure. For you to click on a Facebook ad, for you to go re read the, the the copy or watch the VSL Yeah. And then go buy the products
Ian: And then get the upsell
Steve: Take the credit card out. Right. And then click on the Calendly link to book a call with somebody. Right? So, but, I mean, your point is valid, though.
Right? Like, maybe they they feel too much shame in in having that conversation, like because I know, like because I walked with them through the script. Right? And the first thing is, like, hey. You know?
Thanks for jumping to call. Were you hoping to get out of this? And then we went to set expectations, and then we went to, like so, like, let's talk about the last girl.
Ian: That makes sense to me, especially because you just revealed that these people have already paid something by the time they're getting to it. Because where someone is in the whole process of being willing to pay for a thing determines their resistance to answering questions about pain. Mhmm. So, like, when I say it's a framework, it's because things can be sped up, things can be slowed down. It's just the general trajectory I think about taking someone on.
And if I we're already at a place where I know they're qualified enough that I don't have I can go into those questions sooner by the very nature of when they raise their hand to have the conversation. That speeds up the process. And this is some of the stuff we're doing for some clients is that, like, some aspects, like buying a house, like, most people run a relatively similar process. There might be different marketing messaging. You might be doing it virtual or in person.
Like, everyone thinks theirs wholly unique compared to everyone else. But the nuances between companies acquiring houses is pretty minimal. Right? In terms of other companies selling a high ticket offer, an education product, selling a physical good, there's all these different nuances that would require some customization. It's hard to give a blanketed advice because by the very I'm giving that answer before I realize that they've already swiped a credit card twice kinda thing before they're having the call.
So that speeds that up a little bit.
Steve: Yeah. And what I'm really excited about, right, because, you know, we recently rebranded the disruptors. We're selling. We're teaching people how to sell other products. Right?
We just had a a vendor sign up for, you know, real estate sales master or not real estate sales master, but sales mastery where we're doing weekly coaching. But, you know, I brought up, like, we worked with, we're working with a guy who's who has a dating offer. Right? One other one that you know, we've done a hypothetical. We haven't actually done this.
But, like, we were like a physical trainer. You know? I was like, hey. You know, tell me more about this. How how's it going?
What have you tried? Did it work? Right? And then it's like, you know, describe to me what's gonna be like once you're in the shape that you wanna be and you're going to parties, looking at you, you know, what's that gonna be like? Describe that to me.
And this goes back to you know, we're talking about the being able to draw the pain, being able to draw the gain. But one of the things that, for me, that's really important about having this vividly, again, no pun intended, right, so you did a really good job with that acronym, is that we want to have not just how crystal clear things suck at the moment and how crystal clear it's gonna be when it's awesome. But if they can see that distance Yeah. That goes back to the impact you're talking about.
Ian: Mhmm. Exactly.
Steve: We want you to feel this distance because that is like it's like a rubber band. You can't stand that is stretched. Right. And you want to close that gap as fast as possible. Right.
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Ian: I mean, I completely agree. Like, and, also, like, there's some other ways, especially when you're having conversation, that you really can get someone to even feel more emotion and initiative to feel more personalized to them. So in the instance of and this is the stuff I go in into my program, which is it's not meant for people just getting into sales because the stuff we go into is far too advanced to it will go way over your head if you're like, when do I ask for the sale? If that's your thing, like, we have stuff for you. We could send you courses and stuff, but, like, to be worthy of the time of what I wanna dive into, it's really nuanced.
So by even the nature of the way you describe your pain to me, the words you choose to use to describe it, I will orient questions around gain as the inverse with the same type of pain using the same type of words. People are familiar with this in neurolinguistics programming. It's like someone describes something kinesthetically. I also wanna use kinesthetic if it's audio, audio, visual, visual. An example could be, is this this happened not too long ago.
Someone was describing, the pain for his wife getting the divorce. He's like, I feel like I got the rug ripped out from under me with this divorce. And, like, now I'm I'm dealing with all these challenges. If he's describing his pain as the rub rug ripped out from under me, Like, hey. Do you feel like we got this taken care of for you so you could be in the next situation with your kids?
You're gonna finally feel like your feet are like now your your feet are planted on the ground going forward if we could get this done. I'm using an inverse of the same type of language you use that will connect with how you visualize pain in the way I'm asking the question to get you to start visualizing the success. And it doesn't come through a it doesn't come through telling. It comes through asking. So I'll use the language that you're like, yeah.
It would. And then you you talked about painting that vivid picture. The way I do that I mean, I am willfully ignorant once you start down this path so that you keep talking. So if I go, do you feel like that would now your feet would be planted on the ground if you can move forward? You go, yeah, I would.
I would go, how so? Mhmm. Start start speaking. Start telling me in your words Right. How things would be.
Even though I just I just described it, I want you to do it. And if I'm doing this right with tone, because tone is incredibly important and not covered enough in sales, how to actually do this in a way that doesn't make people go, woah, or, like, I have certain things I've done, like softening questions. When I know a question is gonna be particularly harder for them to answer, like, what's the greatest challenge with this? I will soften it by making these answers. Like, hey.
I'm curious and because you know your situation better than me. If there's one thing about what you just said that's, like, the hardest thing to deal with, what do you think that would even be? I've softened it. If I just go, what's the hardest thing about that?
Steve: You're like, that's I
Ian: don't know. Right? By there's all these different that's the nuances of the in between. Mhmm. The framework is the general trajectory we take someone through.
So if I do these nuances right, it's you've described some some of the stuff I do is like putting the thumb on the scale. And I I would argue it's the thumb is nothing. I have a magnet under
Steve: the scale.
Ian: By the time it's done, you have no idea why you you felt so compelled. Like, I need to do this right now, and this is what we're trying to teach people to do because it's it's it sounds very, like, Jedi mind tricky. Like, wow. Like, it's so cool that you can do this, but I'm not interested in trying to impress people with my sales skills. My goal is to train other people to do the exact same thing.
This is like I try and emphasize this point on my sales training. I'm like, this is not the wow Ian's so good at role playing with us show. That does nothing for me but stoke my ego, which is not the goal of this. I wanna make sure you get actual results and can do a version of the same thing selling the way you sell based on your personality. So you're not hearing objections.
You're just moving someone through the process naturally to get them to wanna take action. And that tension between how great their life could be and the pain for their exact same circumstances, if you ask the questions right and use language that taps into that person's brain that makes it feel even more customized to them because of how they verbalize their pain, they won't even realize why they're like, yeah. That that tension is it it's gonna snap. I need to do this now. Mhmm.
I mean, when they have that level of interest, you could even pull back, like I mean, are you even if you did this now, do you even feel like you would hop on the calls and take advantage of this? I'm pulled back even more because I need you to be like, yes. Yes. Yes. I'm like, yeah.
But not today. Like, I wanna pull back as much as possible so you are selling yourself.
Steve: Yeah. And, again, it goes back to we get prospects to sell sales. Yes. And one thing you you touched on a moment ago is the elements of personality. Mhmm.
Right? So, like, there's all sorts of different there are a lot of people teaching sales. Right? We we mentioned Grant Cardone with the agree agree. Right?
And then there are other people that have a car sales background. And I think that there are a lot of options out there, and I think that that training is fine if they don't have a right precision. You know? Using that philosophy in a scenario in particularly in real estate where they don't have to be closed today. Right?
Like, you drive with a lot, it's done. Right? Twenty minutes by the moment they leave the finance department and they get their keys, the moment it leaves the parking lot, it's done. Yeah. It's a nonrefundable product.
Right? In real estate, they need to be sold now. They need to be sold tonight. They need to be sold when they tell their kids. They need to be sold tomorrow when the title company calls.
They need to be sold in thirty days, sixty days, ninety days, or however long it takes for this to go. The philosophy of pushing for a sale, pretty risky in that environment.
Ian: Not only do they need to be sold in thirty days, they need to be sold multiple times along that when the neighbor's like, oh, I could buy it. I'll I'll buy that for you. Don't sell it to a stranger. They they need to be able to advocate for the process that they agreed to when even things flare up, let alone the twenty minutes of just driving off the lot. Right.
Yep. Thinking that you can logic trap with memorized lines into someone to taking action when they can just cancel it, like with selling an education product or training or signing a contract to sell your house or getting a solar inspection or the underwriter for life insurance or anything that isn't car sales is absolute gibberish. You can make plenty of money forcing people to do something they don't wanna do and hoping that they don't realize they don't wanna cross it. You can make money, but you're leaving way more money on the table by running the wrong process.
Steve: Well, particularly, like, you know, you have an insurance background too. Right? So you've done you've done solar, you've done insurance. I remember you were telling me about example of there's one guy who every month is a victim to chargebacks.
Ian: Oh, it wasn't one guy. There were so many guys. Insurance because I was selling life insurance, which is another intangible product. Right? If you have to if you're thinking, like, I'm I'm a pretty good sales guy, try selling life insurance to union truck drivers in New York City with a pure commission, tell me, like, it's not you're not just relying because so many car sales guys like, people are gonna buy, you actually got in the way.
You were more annoying for them buying the car. Car sales guys suck for the most part. They get no training. The training they get is someone shouting at them, and they think the machismo is the way to do it. Like, it's garbage.
Like, they're terrible. I've never had a good experience with a car sales guy. I go in there, like, to get content and negotiate with them because I think it's funny. They're not good. Right?
They're just not good. And they set other industries back because of the very nature of the second you drive off the lot, you're like, oh, shoot. What am I supposed to do? So they do deceptive tactics. They make money in screwing people over.
Like, that's actually how they do it, which is the opposite of how we do stuff in education, at least how we do stuff in education. Can't speak for everyone. And so to me, there's there's nothing sillier than thinking if I if I push someone to do something, this is great. And this happened all the time in life insurance, another intangible product where there needs to be there's gonna be an underwriting department, and you're like, this is for life. This is not just thirty days.
Like, I was selling whole life insurance. So you need to be sold on this for the bill in fifty years. The second you cancel, it's over. So I needed to make sure there was enough there was enough commitment that as this bill came up, as things got tight, you weren't first forward. And in life insurance, there's this guy who was, oh my gosh.
He was the perfect example of someone who's thought sales was all forcing someone to do something by logic trapping them with objections. Like, he's like, I can overcome anything. I can sell ice to an Eskimo, which I believe Zig Ziglar made the point out. Like, if you can sell ice to an Eskimo, you're not a salesperson. You're con man, because Eskimos don't need ice.
Right? It's the same idea here. If you can be like, oh, I thought you were a man. You don't want to protect your family? It's like and then shockingly, these garbage people wanted to cancel a thing that they felt forced to buy on a Zoom call when it was in his home.
And I see this in multiple industries. You see it all over social media. Pushing someone to feeling like they gave you a reluctant yes is a recipe for disaster. Because not only will you get the charge back, but you had to force them, and then you got the charge back, and then you burn out. And salespeople deserve better.
Like, sales professionals, by and large, suck at sales because most of their sales training sucks. Just like, they've been trained by garbage, outdated stuff when consumers couldn't go online, and they still because people have a bias in their mind, they still think that's the way to train, and it's ridiculous. It's silly. You sound silly. But the biggest problem for me is not even that it's that salespeople suck.
It's that I believe there's a better way to do it. And I love salespeople. Like, I close more sales podcast is to inspire the sales professional for someone who has conversations or how well you speak determines how much money you make. You are the athletes of the business world. Your performance matters.
You matter to companies. You move the economy. You are what drives revenue. You should be celebrated, not hated. The reason you're hated and considered like all the sleazy car salesman is because of your stupid tactics and forcing people to do something they don't wanna do.
And I am not considered that way because I help you make your decision. So I don't identify with that. And if you don't want to either, reach out to us because, like, I just I believe this so firmly that sales is a noble profession. It's helping people. It's guiding them to help, and so many professionals do it wrong.
Steve: Right. And then going back to another thing too because we're talking about the Vivint selling framework, right, is that there are a lot of other people that, like, preach, like, scripts. Right? Like, magic words to say. And they work if you're dealing with another person who is saying one of the 10 exact objections Right.
You have in the training. But funny enough, you're dealing with a person, and every person is having a slightly different experience. So, like, the idea that you have all the possible objections. Today's podcast is brought to you by motivatedleads.com. With them, you can get $300 worth of quality local leads sent exclusively to your inbox by just mentioning my name.
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Ian: It's ridiculous. It's absurd. Right? Scripts are training wheels. Mhmm.
Okay? That's fine to learn the process. But if you saw professional cyclists in the Tour de France wearing like, using training wheels, you would laugh. That's what I think of by salespeople who have to rely on scripts who've been in this a long time. Yeah.
It is simply training wheels. If you're if you think, alright. Time to learn a new thing. Let me just memorize the script and say it the same way every time, you're in the Tour de France with training wheels on. You're always handicapped by, within within these two lines.
But as soon as there's any hard right or left turn, you can only turn as far as the training wheels. Yeah. And also, like, there's an aspect of certain lines that are like marketing. And what I mean by that is that marketing tends to work really well as in a certain way until it doesn't. A certain line, a certain tactic, a certain, like, online technique.
Right? Like, right now, a big thing in real estate investing is sending a check-in the mail for the offer. That will work until it doesn't, and then that doesn't work anymore. Yeah. Right?
And the problem with the memorized lines is you're, first off, cutting yourself at the kneecaps by using these training wheels to only deal with certain scenarios. But by the very nature of repeating the same thing every single time regardless of the nuances of what the prospect told you Mhmm. It's a matter of time until that is said enough that it doesn't hit home for the right people because it sounds like a check-in the mail or an email from a Nigerian prince. We've all heard this enough times. It's like, I know what this is.
I can now see the seams of the sale. And what happens is even if you are a good salesperson who has their best interest at heart, who's just relying on a script because that's how you were trained, you are now lumped together with every other person who ever reached out to them sounding the exact same way. You lose the ability to differentiate yourself from scammers and nobodies because you use a regurgitated script.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, one of the things in, like, you know, my poor friend, Brent Daniels, I love the guy. Right? Love the guy. But everyone knows the TTP script.
Ian: He the TTP script is a is a victim of its own success. Yeah. Because that script was so popular, now your joke is that more homeowners know that than wholesalers, which is probably true Right. Which means it loses its effectiveness. It's it's not that those words were bad.
They were really good Yeah.
Steve: The first time any homeowner heard it.
Ian: That's exactly my point. So but if they didn't take action on it and someone else read that script, even if the person calling the second time could offer more money, had better interest at heart, was gonna treat them right, you are lumped in with the person who sounded the first way. So if you were relying on a script you got given from your company, you download online or worse, paid a guru for, chances are it's a matter of time until you're just being lumped in with other salespeople saying the exact same thing. Yeah. We teach frameworks so you can sell based on how you talk.
You can sell on your personality You can sell how you are in a way that gets them to wanna take action themselves.
Steve: Exactly. Right? And, like, Ian and I, obviously, we have a lot of alignment and beliefs and so on, but we're gonna say things slightly differently. Always. Right.
Because Ian is a lot more expressive.
Ian: Yeah. Just as it's been clear
Steve: a little bit on
Ian: his podcast.
Steve: More expressive. And, you know, the, I have shocked people, right, with the things I've said. Like, you know, the joke is, like, you know, it sounds to me like money is more important than your grandkids. Right? I don't say it that way, but I've said that Pretty close.
I've said it multiple times. And I kinda, I have this I don't wanna say it's a reputation, but, like, it's kinda funny that you will say this to another person. But and every time I say it, like, people that hear it is, like, they're shocked, but, like, the homeowner is like,
Ian: no. No. No. No.
Steve: Like, my kids are more important than and my grandkids are more important than money. Right? And then they they go the direction I wanted to go, That they also wanted it to go. Right? And so you can see here, we have the same frameworks, but we approach it slightly differently based on personality.
So that's the reason why we have, you know, we just, relaunched with objection proof selling. You know? I think one of the things that's really important, we're talking about getting good in sales, is become objection proof. And the way we do it is that we sell based off of frameworks. You know?
We got the vivid selling framework, which is a very large part of what we do as far as, you know, our the structure's selling process. We have that. We have matching the personality. And with the framework, we're dealing with the objections well before we go for the close.
Ian: Yeah. Right?
Steve: So if you guys are interested, go to objectionproofselling.com. From there, you can kinda see what our our frameworks are. So just check it out. Right? And then definitely, for sure, check out the Close More Sales podcast because if you think Ian was impressive here or interesting or fascinating in what in any way whatsoever
Ian: They definitely all thought that. All the things. You get
Steve: to hear it every week with the Close More Sales podcast. So was there anything here we didn't cover that we wanted to make sure we touched on?
Ian: No. I mean, to reiterate your point about the personality thing, I tell everyone all the time because I get asked a couple times. I've heard this maybe three or four times now, which is that I wanna be like a mini version of you. I wanna sell like you. And I it's a very nice compliment, but the reality is it's almost the wrong thing because I am me.
I'm I'm a very unique individual. I'm well aware of that. You call me crazy all the time for the amount of things I'm doing for different things. And I'm I'm I'm interesting. Right?
I mean, I'm my own guy. Yeah. So I wouldn't say crazy. I would say I'm interesting.
Steve: I say insane.
Ian: But the real goal is not to sell exactly like me. It's to touch on all the features that I touch or touch in terms of a framework to take someone on the right emotional trajectory so that it feels like their idea, but to sell like you. Because if you are trying to sell in a way that's not how you are, and every professional salesperson, anyone who's ever done anything like this knows what this feels like, you are exhausted. Mhmm. You're burned out.
You just you're trying to be something you're not. You're trying to have enthusiasm when you don't. Trying to force someone who didn't want it. You're trying to do something that doesn't feel authentic to who you are. Yeah.
And we would much rather have you sell how you are while touching all the points of a framework and dealing with the objections before they ever even become objections. It's the idea of objection proof is that if you actually do this right, I don't hear the objection at the end of the sale. I'm just I'm just dealing with obstacles and then reframing them and moving them into the reason why you wanna move forward anyway, and then you go, yeah. I guess that makes sense, and we just continue on. We are objection proof because it's not objection free.
Everyone still throws out things that are reasons and hesitations to not move forward. Mhmm. But I don't hear them as objections when you follow our process, selling the way you could sell because you dealt with them ahead of time. So by the time you reach the end, they just feel like, yeah. This is my conclusion.
I wanna move forward.
Steve: Yeah. And on top of that, like, some of their objections weren't really objections. No. You know? They're really just, like, things that they'll say out of reaction.
Yeah. They're not sure where they are, and then they'll just kinda say something to maybe throw you off your game. You know? The example I've shared before is, you know, my house isn't for sale and and but they had submitted an inquiry to sell their house. Right?
So we just say, you know, congratulations on the sale of your home.
Ian: It's
Steve: like, no. I haven't sold my home yet. Oh, but you were able to take care of that issue we were talking about before. No. I haven't.
I don't understand. And I was like, well, here's what's going on. So they're still actually interested in selling a house. They just didn't wanna talk about it at that moment. Right.
Right? But a lot of people, we hear an objection. We're just super curious the way we approach our curiosities. Maybe different
Ian: Sure. And
Steve: counterintuitive, but we're exploring what everything means.
Ian: Right.
Steve: Right? So, yeah, again, guys, if you guys are interested, check out the Close My Sales podcast with Ian, on iTunes, YouTube. And then, yeah, if you guys wanna check out what we have what we have to offer with objection proof selling, if you wanna become objection proof, go to objectionproofselling.com. Anything you wanna leave, the listeners with?
Ian: Yeah. I'll say this. I'll I'll I'll I'll wrap up this, like, before you have your last line, which is like, I I said it already before, but if you have conversations where how well you speak determines how much money you can make, you are in a sales role in some way, shape, or form. So you wanna be strategic and you wanna be intentional about selling the right way so that the people you are speaking to don't feel forced. They don't feel pushed.
They don't feel coerced. They don't feel resentful, and you don't burn yourself out in trying to move someone through that process. So if you want help with that, just go to objectionproofselling.com. We'd be happy to have a conversation with you and see if we can help you out.
Steve: Alright. Perfect. Thank you guys for watching. See you guys next time.
Speaker: Shout out to Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
