Brett Snodgrass & Brian Snider Share How Brett Was Able to Step Out of a 300 Deals a Year Business Without Skipping a Beat

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Welcome for thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we've got Brett Snodgrass and Brian Snyder with Simple Wholesaling, and they flew in from Indianapolis to talk about how Brett was able to transition away out of the organization while the team still does 300 deals per year. If this is your first time tuning in, I am Steve Trang, founder of the OfferFast Homes app, the only MLS for off market wholesale properties. And I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires.

We do have our workshop kind of coming up next week. If you guys wanna see if you qualify, please go to disruptors.com/workshop. And if you get value out of the show today, please tag it from below, comment, share this episode, whatever you can do to help. That way, we can all grow together. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Brett and Brian to answer.

You ready?

Brian Snider: Let's do it.

Steve: Alright. So first question is I'll start with Brett, is what got you into real estate?

Brett Snodgrass: Yeah. Well, thanks for having us on the show, Steve. Appreciate being here. First time to Phoenix. So Really?

Yeah. Yeah. I love it out here. It's warm. It's like 90 today.

So, it's awesome. But, I pretty much just start back in my journey. I grew up in Indiana. My dad was a teacher. He was a high school basketball coach.

My mom was a early childhood teacher as well. So we didn't come from money. No entrepreneurs in the family. But I always kinda had that knack. I guess I always liked to, count money.

I had my piggy bank out. I count my little pennies and quarters. And, and I would remember even in middle school, I would sell candy at school. Mhmm. So I'd always had this entrepreneurial thing going on.

And just kinda lead me up, I went to college. I played basketball in college, which I know you're a baller. You're talking about that. Not in college level. But, that was kind of my life.

I graduated college with an elementary education degree because my parents were teachers. Mhmm. And, I didn't know what else to do. So but I always kinda had this this entrepreneurial mind. So I started reading some books, Rich Dad Poor Dad, The Millionaire Next Door, just some of these books started to come to life and, realized that a lot of millionaires became wealthy through real estate.

So I was online one night and I found this house for sale in Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio for $9,000. And this was 2,007. And I was like, man, you can't buy a house for $9,000. That's crazy. Mhmm.

But we did. And my dad, he had about 5,000. I had about 5,000. And we ended up buying the house, and we sold it for 15,000, made 16 or made $6,000, and that was the first deal. And, after that, I just said, you know what?

If I can do this with one deal, could I do it with a thousand deals? And then, thirteen years later, I think we've done 3,000 plus deals. It's a pretty awesome ride. And I met Brian three years ago. Well, our we were family friends, not family.

Our our wives were friends. And we used to just kinda hang out a little bit. And he was a teacher too. Yep. So I really like teachers.

And, he kinda joined the team three years ago. And then this year, he now runs the company, runs the show, and and I've stepped out more. And it's been an amazing journey, Steve. I appreciate you just asking. It's awesome.

Steve: Yeah. So before we get any further, so you did your first deal in Ohio, not back home.

Brian: Right. You bought it on eBay. Right?

Brett: Yeah. I bought it on eBay. That's when eBay was cool.

Steve: So you bought a house on eBay as your first deal. Yeah. Interesting. And then did you continue to do eBay, continue doing Youngstown, or when did you transition to home?

Brett: Yeah. Well, I just honestly, I was looking through eBay, and I didn't even know eBay sold houses, real estate. I thought eBay sold, you know, took kids' toys. I don't know. And, but they did.

They sold real estate, and I found these cheap houses. And I would really just find the cheapest houses, and a lot of them were in Youngstown, Ohio or Ohio locations. And I did that for a while, and I would buy in those locations. But then I realized, you know what? Could I do this close to home?

Mhmm. And I started figuring out Indianapolis was an amazing market, and I could do it close to home. And that's when we kinda pulled out of Ohio and started doing Indianapolis in our backyard. And then now we strictly do Indianapolis, Indiana.

Steve: Gotcha. Gotcha. Alright. So how about you? How did you get into real estate?

Brett: Yeah.

Brian: I got into real estate basically through Brett. I was a graduated to become a teacher. I was a teacher for fourteen years. And, really I was supposed to become a principal. And Really?

Once I started doing stuff to become a principal, I realized yeah. I realized I did not wanna be a principal. Like, it's

Brett: not He's gonna have to take a nap. Yeah.

Brian: So I realized, like, hey, if you are become a principal, like, it's basically any decision you make, like, half the people are gonna like it, half the people are not. And that is not my personality at all. Did not like that part of it and realized I didn't wanna become a principal and wanted to do something else. And really, I he and I, like, we knew each the funny thing is, like, our group of friends, there's about there's about eight to 10 of us that were pretty close friends, five couples. We always hung out, and the kind of funny joke was, like, nobody knew what Brett did.

It was like, oh, he does he does something in real estate. He flips houses or, you know, he's on one of the HGTV people or, you know, something like that. We never really knew what it was. And so Brett and I went out for breakfast one morning, and I kinda told him, like, hey, I'm gonna teach for one more year and, you know, then then I'm done. I gotta find something else to do basically within this year.

And he said, well, I just we just let go of somebody that's doing our marketing and, you know, we might be coming out with an education course. Would you be interested in in doing that? So I was like, yeah. Let's let's let's do it. And it was really just kind of on a whim and took a job, like like, the next day.

We were like, okay. We had kinda had a conversation, like, are we serious about this? And end up taking a job with him and really from there. I didn't know what wholesaling was at the time or anything like that. But

Brett: Is that a good way to hire someone? Steve, you're in sales. Is that a good way? Hey. Just have breakfast.

Hire your friend who has no idea what you do?

Steve: Yeah. Generally, no. But and even hiring friends, I think, in general is also probably not a very good idea. Yeah. But if you really know each other really well and you know that he'll fit, we'll still have him take the profile.

Right? So I haven't take the PI. But I

Brett: don't think you took a PI. I didn't know. I didn't even know.

Brian: And we were really like, we were, like, we kinda knew we have each other, but not really we weren't really that close

Brett: or anything.

Brian: So Yeah. But it's it's it's worked out.

Brett: Yeah. So It's worked out this time, but there's other times it hasn't worked. So

Steve: Right.

Brett: Yeah.

Steve: Absolutely. So what what was it that you saw on Brian where I say, okay. He'll be a good fit for this role?

Brett: I just I think that, he was a hard worker. Seemed like he worked really, really hard. I knew he, was in teaching, and I was a teacher, so I kinda knew that. But he was also kinda led different associations he would talk about with his organizations and, he kind of the teaching. I don't even know what you call him, but some of the the teaching organizations.

Brian: Yeah. I mean, I've always been a leader in whatever I've done, like, you know, fraternity to president and, you know, captain in any sport and, you know, it was like I was a coach when I was teaching and stuff like that and and, you know, even coach to coach other teachers and things. So I always gravitate towards leadership. And we've we've we've talked a lot about that stuff and just what leadership means and kinda, you know, an entrepreneurship of what that means to be a leader and and things too. So yeah.

Steve: So you were naturally a leader. Did you take anything to become a leader? Like, did you take any courses? Were there any books that jumped out? Or are you just naturally driven to be a leader?

Brian: So a little bit of both. You know, I think I've just naturally been, you know, drawn to that, and I've kind of just always gravitated towards that. I've never been one to kinda be quiet in a room, but not in a negative way, I kinda, I think. But also just like as I've, you know, worked through my masters and stuff, I took a lot of, you know, leadership classes, become a principal and kinda coaching stuff as as well to, you know, become a better coach and and all that things too. So there's

Steve: been some masters in education.

Brian: I technically, no. I've done everything I need to. I just actually never went to do it because I ended up, like, not realizing I wanted to become a principal.

Steve: So Got it.

Brian: I kind of did everything in two to get a master's but never actually finished

Brett: it.

Steve: Could you could you have stayed a teacher if you did wanna be

Brian: principal or you just knew that you I it was ready for me to do something else. I had to kind of I I did it long enough that I was ready for something else.

Steve: Got it.

Brian: So yeah.

Brett: Yeah. And, and to be quite honest, I didn't know. I was just I had a job to fill and he filled That

Brian: was your hiring method then. It was basically, oh, I need to hear you have you need a job? I have somebody to yeah.

Brett: And I didn't know if he was a good leader. I mean, he really started off we were gonna be putting out an education course, and I knew he was an educator. So I was like, oh, this is a good fit. Mhmm. And and we kinda pulled the reins on that after just a few months, but now he he showed leadership once he came into the business and kept showing leadership again and again.

And that's when he became, you know, moving up the ranks.

Steve: Gotcha. And, you know, something I said before, not often is that I actually wanted to be a teacher.

Brett: Oh, yeah.

Brian: I didn't know that. Okay.

Steve: But I saw how much teachers made. Yeah.

Brian: Well, that's how that's how he really got me. I said, well, if you can match my teacher's salary,

Brett: and that's

Brian: basically nothing. So he's like, oh, I can do that. But I

Brett: was like, in the real estate, and he was like, well, I make this. And I was like, oh, okay. Done. I think

Brian: you still tried to lowball

Brett: me a little bit.

Steve: So this is about three years ago. You've been doing it for thirteen years. So you had this ride up until you connected with Brian.

Brett: Yeah.

Steve: So let's talk about what that ride was like. You know? You were were buying eBay, and then you eventually moved closer to home. What kinda I mean, what was that journey? Let's talk about that.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. No. Definitely. So, the journey was I bought that first house in 2007.

2008 was amazing. I went from literally a substitute school teacher making, ten to fifteen thousand dollars a year, and I think we did a 150 deals in 2008. So everybody else is running for the hills. Real estate is terrible. And I don't know any better because I'm just young.

I'm like, oh my gosh. It's crazy. I'm buying all these cheap houses. Mhmm. And, and it was great.

But I didn't ever know how to run a business with it. I didn't know how to hire anybody, obviously. I didn't know how to fire anybody. I didn't know any systems. It was just basically me and my dad.

He retired early from teaching, to join me, and we were kind of partners for about six years. Right? So fast forward, this was in 2014. I was doing some other things. I was fixing and flipping, and I was doing some owner financing deals.

I had a couple of rentals. And I was really, really stressed out, honestly. I had just gotten married two years in my marriage. I had a new, son. And I was getting sued by a contractor.

And I had some of these flips that were just going really the wrong way. And I was losing money. And I realized, man, I can't do this anymore. I just wanna go back to wholesaling. And I just wanna chase deals.

And it's simple. And I want a simple business. And that's when I said, I'm just gonna do this this business. I'm gonna call it Simple Wholesaling. Mhmm.

And that's where it started, honestly. And, my first hire was, a friend of mine. And I sat down with him at Cracker Barrel. And I said, hey. You know what?

I heard about these people writing these letters and sending them in the mail and getting deals. Would do you wanna do that? And he said, sure. So he needed a job. So that's now my first hire.

He wrote these letters handwritten Uh-huh. On these notebook, piece of paper, And, and I kinda went from there. And then honestly, it scaled to other people, started saying, what are you doing? And I started hiring my acquisitions manager, a dispositions manager, and really kinda did everything the wrong way. I didn't I didn't know any systems and processes.

And, but our culture, I think, was really, really good. And I was a very honest person. I wanna do things the right way. People trusted me. And I think that's really where we started to grow even though we weren't doing things totally business like, but we were our culture was like, man, I can trust you guys.

And that's where it started to grow. And then Brian stepped in, and that's when kind of processes started.

Steve: What would you attribute to developing that culture? I I mean, because, you know, culture is something that we throw around every once in a while. But, like, how did you engender that culture? What contributed to it? Were you able to attract people that liked your culture?

Brett: Yeah. Well, number one, I'm a man of faith. So that's that's kinda, like, big for me. So I always wanna do the right thing and, treat people the right way. And then a little bit after I hired a couple of people, another friend introduced me to a business coach.

Mhmm. And he ran this, read this book called Scaling Up, and he took me through that. Right? And that's when I really learned how to run a business and my core values and said, you gotta have core values. And I was like, what are what are core values?

I don't know. Like, I'm an honest person. But he took me through the process and we started making goals and rocks. Mhmm. And and that really changed the game.

Right? And that's when I started to learn how to hire people. And he told me and he said, you can't just walk around a building like, oh, you look cool. Let's let's go. And and and that's when, that just all helped me.

Steve: You can't. You just can't grow.

Brett: Yeah. Right.

Steve: Yeah. So Scaling Up, that that's an incredible, incredible book. So you got the culture. You got the core values. And then at some point, you you you partnered up with Brian.

So we were kinda talking about what what it was that, you know, created this bond where you guys, you know, partnered up. Can we talk about that?

Brett: Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: It really came back to, you know, I think when I moved I was living in Columbus, Ohio and moved out to Indianapolis, like, six years ago. Brett and Karen were, like, one of the first couples that I met and started hanging out with. We both were former basketball players and kinda bonded over that. We got every now and then for, you know, a beer and watch a game and hang out. So we kinda, you know, kinda bonded over that, and then we decided to play in this three on three basketball tournament.

Brett Brett's idea. Let's do it. We haven't played in a while and stuff. Like, oh, we'll be okay. Yeah.

And, it was like, yeah, five points into the game, like, he tore his Achilles.

Brett: Yeah.

Brian: And so it was just it till we lost the game, number one. I was like but, but I was teaching the time of summertime. So, really, I I think I took you to maybe, like, two or three doctor's appointments, and we really didn't know each other that well, but we kinda bonded over that and just kinda got to know each other. And so so then it became regular for us to meet, you know, once every couple months to go out for breakfast or, you know, still go out for a beer or something like that. And, yes, and then the opportunity kinda came around and it worked out pretty well.

Brett: Yeah. Definitely.

Steve: Yeah. So it's funny you say, like, in the very beginning. I I think when I blew my Achilles, it was, like, the first, like, two minutes of the game. Yeah.

Brett: You know?

Steve: So one thing I wanna touch on real quick, it's a tangent, because you're talking about basketball, you're talking about leadership, you talk about basketball. Something that I haven't talked a lot about is that a lot of the leadership skills that we learned came from playing basketball.

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Being on a team, corralling a team, you know, getting that guy. I mean, a lot of it is like verbal abuse, but it's, like, run back on deep, box out. What are you doing? Why aren't you guarding your guy?

And it's just a lot of, like, it's a lot of commanding.

Brian: Yeah. I mean, as a as a point guard, I was a point guard my entire life. I mean, I'm five six right now. So I don't think I've been in sixth grade, but I've been in point guard my entire life. Like, I had to I had to run the offense.

I had run the defense.

Brett: And, I

Brian: mean, I remember my, high school basketball coach senior year, like, during our end of the year, like, banquet and stuff like that. He's like, I I think Brian knows me better than my wife does because he didn't have to say what play. Like, I knew it. And

Steve: that's Yeah.

Brian: That's part of being a leader to me. So Yeah. Yeah.

Brett: Yeah. And I grew up in a in a coach's house. So my dad was a high school basketball coach in Indiana. So it's a lot different from me now here. High school basketball coach in Indiana is pretty legit.

Steve: I mean, they made a whole movie about it.

Brett: Yeah. We were that movie. Who cares?

Brian: You were Jimmy Chitwood. Yeah.

Brett: My dad was Normandale. And so I I still use my dad's principles today. Still still even he would say things like, hey, Brett. You're either gonna get better or worse today Mhmm. At basketball.

What are you gonna do? And I'd say, I wanna get better. Yeah. And so I use those same things in business or in life.

Steve: You're constantly sharpening the saw.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And he would say things like practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. So I would, you know, just like shooting a free throw, the more you practice, the more it just becomes repetition.

Mhmm. And just like deals. Like, when I did my first real estate deal, I was scared to death. Right? I mean, you probably remember your first deal, and I couldn't believe we were gonna make $6,000, and it was just so scary.

But now, I don't even think about it. I haven't looked at the last 1,000 houses, and I'm like, well, whatever. You know? Yeah. It's just it's just a deal.

So anyways, it just kinda the more you practice, the more, permanent it just kinda comes in your mind. So totally agree. Basketball skills, and just the lessons. Yeah. It's been cool.

Steve: So let's talk about so you guys joined forces and, Brian, this year, took over operations. So let's talk about that. How do you go from working in the business to eventually just sitting in the owner's box? And not not that you're not doing anything, but you're not as heavily involved, which I think is kinda like what everyone's dream is and what everyone thinks they're gonna get when they get into wholesaling, and it doesn't. It takes many, many years of failing to get there.

Mhmm. So let's talk about what that transition was like in handing off the reins.

Brett: Yeah. Well, I actually did talk a couple of weeks ago just about this topic because I think you're exactly right. I mean, people start businesses, a wholesaling business for for freedom. Right? They want to make their own hours, their own time.

But then most of the time, later, people complain because they have no freedom. Right?

Steve: Right.

Brett: That's what that happens. So and I that was just a a thing. I always you know, you go through seasons of life. And in the last couple of years, one of my goals was to get out of the day to day operations of the business. And this year hits 2020.

And I remember we're sitting down with our business coach, and this was kind of a highlight key number one. So Brian, he's coming up with the vision of of this year, what this is gonna look like, and he's describing his ideas. And I'm kinda sitting over here, you know, and, our coach looks at us, and he says, Brett, do you even wanna be the visionary of this company? And, like, I thought about that, and I honestly didn't even know that that was an option. Yeah.

Because that was, like, the visionary or the CEO. That's, like, the pinnacle. Right? That's, like, that's that's the top you don't get anywhere else. Mhmm.

So I was, like, is that even can I even do that? Is that something I can do? And he said, well, yeah. It's your business. If you just wanna sit in the owner's box, you can do that if you want.

And then that's where it kind of entered my mind. So fast forward March, COVID hits, shutdown orders are here. And I remember having that thought that this could really hurt our business. It could even take us out. We could totally just crumble and fail.

And I had a relief come over me thinking I would be okay with that Mhmm. Possibly. If we diminish down to just a few people and that was our business. And that's when I realized that I was not the visionary anymore.

Steve: Yeah.

Brett: And I needed to get out of that seat. So called up Brian. I said, Brian, I gotta have a heart to heart with you. Here's where I'm at. I've lost some of the the zest, some of the passion.

I'm not as hungry as I was thirteen years ago in this business. I still wanna do things and create things, but I feel like I'm not the visionary. Do you wanna take the reins of this whole the whole deal? And I'll sit in the owner's box, and I'll be your biggest fan. And you make the decisions, and you can bounce ideas off of me.

And I'll be honest with you, but it's

Steve: your deal. So you're kinda like the

Brett: chairman. Yeah.

Brian: Right? Like He's he's my board of advisors. He's one person.

Steve: He's my one person. Back. Whenever they need to make a important decision, they'll go back to the founder Yeah. Or the chairman. But that's really the level of involvement.

Brett: Yeah. Alright. And a lot of times, I don't have to do that, because I want to empower them. So my answers most of the time is, will you decide? Mhmm.

What do you wanna do? And most of the time, they already have the answer.

Steve: Right. They just want that confirmation.

Brett: And that's something I've had to learn. And as a CEO and a visionary for many years, that that was the been the biggest challenge is letting go. Sure.

Brian: Letting

Brett: go. And that takes time and courage

Steve: a lot. I hear that a lot from a lot of the other, when we were in CG. Right? A lot of the guys talking about, like, delegating. Had and it's hard Mhmm.

For a lot of these guys.

Brian: Yeah. It is. Well, it's kinda funny of, you know, kinda just coming back in the story of last year, we set our vision and our goals for this year. And our goal was by the 2020, we wanted Brett to be only working twenty hours a week. Mhmm.

So that was the goal to get there. And I asked him actually, when we're at at CG, we're just driving around and I asked him, like, so, like, how much are you working? Like, are you, you know, are you do are you under that twenty hours? He was, like, oh, I'm maybe at, like, under five.

Brett: So so I

Brian: was, like, great. And that that was a relief for me. I'm like, okay. Now Yeah. Like, it was kinda you at least, like, okay.

I feel like I am doing this. I'm I'm doing what he needs to be done, and I'm carrying out his vision, and we're we're doing pretty well. So yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.

Brett: But you also have to to really let go. And, a lot of times your ego gets in the way. Sure. Especially people this is your baby. Right?

It's like someone taking care of your kid. It's very, very difficult to let go of that. Number one, I knew that my face wasn't gonna be in the company as much anymore, right, at all. My decisions weren't going to be, you know, the decisions that were gonna be carried out. My vision wasn't gonna be even our core values, they're ask they're talking about, hey, should we switch our core values?

Because our vision is starting to change because they're the visionaries now. Mhmm. There's just some things and I I again, I have to be okay with that. And if you're not okay with that, that's in the ego. But I'm, you know, I'm the man.

I you know, my face needs to be in the commercials or whatever. And I had to let go of a lot of that, honestly.

Brian: Well, I know I think a lot of times like that, you know, especially that if you were the owner and you started the company and things like that, when you start growing a team and all of a sudden it gets to the point where maybe you don't see that you end up being the bottleneck in that business a lot of times. So, like, when Brett came to me and he said, hey. Let's have this serious conversation. Would you be interested in that? Like, honestly, it was kind of a relief for me because I was like, okay.

Now I can now things are gonna happen a little bit quicker and that's,

Brett: you know, the

Brian: thing it wasn't nothing against them. It was just like it was just like, you

Steve: know, it was one

Brian: extra step that I had to do, like, of just asking confirmation or making sure it was okay. And, you know, so that convert that conversation of, like, yeah. I can just I can just go with it and roll with it. And so that was a a relief for me, and it's kinda funny too. It's on I think it was, like, the, you know, the June or July CG when it was virtual.

And, you know, Brett, like, kinda made a, I think Brett was on there, and he talked about, like, him getting out of the business and kinda, you know, announced that and stuff. And I got it. I like, my literally, my phone blew up from a bunch of other, like, COOs in the business. Like, hey. You need Brett to talk to my owner, like, right now.

Like, you know, have that conversation and stuff. So this and I see it right now even with the the CEO. I'm always asking, you know, that my the two guys on our leadership team of, like, hey. You guys have to be completely honest with me. If I'm if I'm ever slowing something down, you have to let me know.

Like, I'm trying to be very aware of that.

Steve: Yeah. So I think this is a really good point because I actually had this conversation this morning with one of my, operators. And he's like, you know, how much involvement am I supposed to bring you in? I was like, none. Like, just make the decision.

Yeah.

Brett: And the

Steve: and the analogy I gave him is like, you know, you cross you come to a fork in the road. How do you know which one's the right road, which one's the wrong road? And the answer is you don't. You just pick one.

Brian: Yeah. And if it's the

Steve: wrong road, you just go back.

Brett: Yeah.

Steve: And so, but

Brett: And and that was a big thing for me too is a lot of times, guys have said, you have to stress test your business. And I didn't know what was gonna happen. Yeah. I mean, this whole thing, they coulda this could be tumbling right now, and I'd be like, that maybe there was a wrong decision. But I was like, you know what?

Let's just find out. Let's just roll the dice. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. I can I I'll give it six months?

I can always step back back in if I have to, but maybe it and it's worked out amazing. And I think, John Maxwell is talking about kind of that he says the leader shift Mhmm. And, you know, talk about sports. And I think that's the natural progression as a lot of times as visionaries, we are the bottleneck because there's people on your team that want to lead, but you never let them. Yeah.

And and you're like, no. I'm gonna stay in this because this is my business. This is my baby, and I built this. But, I was fine with where the business is at now. If we just keep doing the same thing, I'm fine.

But what if they wanna grow it? Like Mhmm. And and now I'm allowing them to do that if that's what they want.

Steve: Right. So So we talked about delegation was one of your challenges. Were there any other challenges in handing the reins over for someone that's listening that wants to you know, that's dreaming about doing this? What are some of the challenges? Unexpected hurdles.

Yeah.

Brian: I think one of the things with us is just being I think us being able to be open and honest with each other about stuff, like, helped us out a lot. Like, there was I can remember, like, a conversation, you know, like, a month ago. Like, I Brett sent you know, we closed on a deal, and the the buyer sent an email back and said, hey. Thank you so much for this transaction. It went well.

And he just, you know, sent an email and was like, hey, you like, thanks a lot.

Brett: I think

Brian: it was just something that simple. I just gave him a call right away. I was like, you can't do that. Like, by you doing that, you are now gonna usurp anybody on our team. Like, they're gonna if they if they buy a house from us again, they're gonna reach out to you.

Like, you just, you know, you've gone past our dispo guy. You've gone past me. So it's like little things like that that you never really realized. He was just being nice and, you know, like, oh, thanks a lot. But it's it's one of those things that, like, hey.

You if you're gonna be out, you're gonna be out. Or if you're gonna be in, you gotta be in. So

Steve: It it it blurs the lines. It confuses everybody.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For me, there's there was a lot of things, a lot of emotions, anxiety.

At first, you know, June 1 hits, and I'm not in any meetings anymore. No one asked me any questions, and you feel a little like, what am I supposed to do? I'm a little lost. Who am I? Because your identity gets sucked into it.

So I I went through that, but time heals. Right? And you start to just be be someone else. So and ego was a big thing. I talked about letting go.

There was a time I think I've done this, like, 10 times as I start to write an email to Brian. Like, there was a deal that I I still look at the deal sometimes, and there was a deal I was like, I didn't know if I liked it. So I started to write this email. Brian, this deal, I don't know if this was very good. And I just erased it.

And I said, you know what? That's not it's their it's their thing. So I had to learn that. And a big one thing for me is, I've heard this a lot, is going through that guilt complex. It's a lot of people feel guilty because they own the business.

They're still making money, but they're not working in it, and the other people are working and they're still making money Mhmm. Kinda like that. And I had to go through that. So I had to kinda get over that where you're like, hey. I built I built something where they have this great opportunity, and now they can lead, which they love doing.

And, and I still take all the I a lot of the risk. Right? It's still my risk, my name on the on the company. So I had to go through some of the guilt as well, and those are some of the feelings you go through. But once you get past and, you know, it's just like anything.

You just learn something new, and it's a new chapter.

Steve: So you had mentioned your coach. Who's your coach?

Brett: So we started off with a guy out of Indianapolis doing the scaling up. I worked with Will Ditzler for three years scaling up. And then the last two years, we worked with Gary Harper Yeah. Out of Sharper. Yep.

And him and his wife, Susan. Yeah. They've been great.

Steve: They're coming down here actually next month for me.

Brian: Awesome. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So let's talk about you, your challenges. And And I know you mentioned one where, you know, you sent an email. Yeah. It's ridiculous.

I forgot to do that. Thanks, guys.

Brian: So, yeah. I think it's I think, you know, a couple things of one of them is just, like, making sure, like, all the professional accounts are taken care of. And I think as a as entrepreneurs, you don't really know all the things that should be done even in

Steve: Professional accounts?

Brian: Like, just like, you know, just like all the insurance stuff, all the, you know, workers' comp or all your contractors. Like, do they have all that stuff? And that's things that, like, kind of he and I really don't know much about that and we kind of just, like, oh, whatever happened, everything was okay and we kinda went with it. Luckily, we brought my my wife on team. She's been a senior director of HR for, you know, fifteen plus years and she, like, kind of is helping us button up all that stuff.

But it was one of those things of, like, I didn't know that language. I didn't know what was going on. And he was kind of, you know, not to call you out, but he was just, again, a little passive about that a little bit too on some of

Brett: that stuff. Hate doing. Yeah. I mean, I think all entrepreneurs and business areas, they just that's the stuff you just hate doing, so you just put it on the back burner.

Brian: So I think it's someday.

Brett: Hopefully, nothing. Nobody gets hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Someday we'll take care of that.

Yeah.

Brian: Yeah. So and then I think another struggle is really just coming into of, like, oh, wow. Like, now I'm responsible for, you know, Ronnie and his family.

Brett: Mhmm.

Brian: Like, they like, how this business does, like, is is is Ronnie gonna be able to have a paycheck next you know? So I've kinda couple moments where it's like, wow. Okay. I'm the man. I gotta take this on, and now I gotta make sure that everybody and their families are eating

Brett: and that

Brian: they're they're healthy and they're safe and they have they have money to, you know, survive. So Yeah. I think that's been something that I think right away we were doing really well and, you know, and everything was okay, but then you have, like, you know, you have a rough week and it's like, oh, man. Alright. Okay.

I'm responsible for this now. Let's get

Brett: it done.

Brian: So that's that's a struggle that, you know, is out there definitely.

Brett: Yeah. And I think, just we were sitting in our coaches meeting too, and we had, all these boxes of what everybody was, you know, in charge of and kinda managed. And Brian was in, like, over half of the boxes because I took all of my stuff and kinda shoved it over to him. Plus he already had his own responsibilities, plus he's taken on more. And I think that's one of the learning things he's had to come through too is just like he can't be in charge of everything because I know what that's like.

And it is pressure, and it's stress, and it's anxiety. These are things people don't really talk about Yeah. Right, on this show probably. But, you know, it's not like, you know, you have to make all these, you know, big big decisions. But when you start to pile all this on you, it's just, just weighs on you.

Right? And I don't want him to get that. I don't want all just to shift all of my stress onto onto him either. So I think that's something I'm always, you know, conscious about as well.

Steve: Sure. So one thing that comes up, in in our mastermind as well is, you know, someone I will ask every once in a while. I was like, when's the right time, or do you offer equity, right, for someone to handle operations? How do you guys address this? Because it's something that's come up multiple times

Brett: Mhmm.

Steve: Within my organization. How did you guys handle that?

Brett: Yeah. I mean, these are questions that, people have asked me too that I've I you know, even before I had that conversation, I went in my mind, I got mentors, and I started asking them, like, hey. What could I do? So all all these options came up. Could I could sell the business maybe.

But could you sell a wholesaling business? Could you sell it to the team? Would that be an option? Could you give up equity in the company? Or could you, you know, still maintain a 100% ownership, but just slice up the profits, to the leadership team more, you know, if they grow it.

So that's that's what we did. That's what I kinda talked to Brian about. That's what I offered him. You know? So it's one of those things.

I think it just depends on who your team is. Mhmm. Again, one thing that I think as entrepreneurs, we underestimate is the risk. And some people might be risk averse. Like, if something goes bad, maybe they don't wanna be on the hook with that that whole deal.

Right? So so I just kinda carved it up where I I do a lot more profit sharing bonuses. They're gonna make a lot of money this year, which is awesome. And, that's just what I did. Not saying it's right or wrong.

It's worked out for me.

Brian: For us. And going back to that first, you know, breakfast or that first tiring that we had is, like, we started having that conversation, like, wow. This is gonna be the awkward conversation every time of, like, us talking about money, like, being friends, and, you know, things like that. But, you know, we've we've gotten used to it now. Like, we're we're pretty open.

Like I said, we're pretty open and honest with each other about that. But I think coming into what we've done, I think this is one of the best one of the things that we've been able to do to, like, help empower other leaders within the business too of having them step up and giving them some more responsibilities with more opportunity to earn throughout. So it's not just all on me, but it's on all all of us as a team and things. So it's worked out really well.

Steve: Yeah. And I'm really excited to have you guys here because I want you know, we've had a couple of different people come on. We were talking about visionary versus integrator. Mhmm. I want people that are, you know, are still working their way up.

This is not a visionary integrator conversation. This is Brian going from up, is is basically the the operations, and Brett is not even a visionary. You're there. You see what's going on, but you're not plotting the course anymore. You're no longer directing the ship.

You're you're you're on the ship.

Brian: You've, you

Steve: know, you've got maybe, like, a a chair, like a sun something to sit outside, like a lawn chair. Yeah. But you're not directing the ship anymore. So that's a completely different situation.

Brett: It is. You know? And if you actually look at Brian's profile, which he has taken profile tests now, he has a lot of visionary qualities, honestly.

Steve: Which makes sense.

Brett: Yeah. But he has a lot of operational qualities, implementer qualities too. So really and our team's not a huge team. And that was one thing, you know, I had to get over to. We have six local people.

We have six of virtual assistants. So, you know, we had about 12 total people. But, it's not a huge huge team. Right? So right now, he basically is both.

He's basically the implementer and the visionary. Mhmm. And if you look at sports, I'm sitting in the owner's box. And he's out there. He's directing the the the plays and calling the plays.

Steve: He's the GM coach.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And he's doing all that. And then, you know, the owners I'm sure the coach doesn't like it if the owner comes back down there and say, hey, why don't you run this play? You know?

Brian: Take it easy Jerry Jones. Like, that's my thing. Yeah.

Brett: So that's just I'm just sitting up there just rooting my team. Go. Go. You know?

Steve: Put the first rounder in

Brett: there. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Very cool. So, one of the other things we talked about was, because I was curious to you guys about, you know, the branding. And I I made the comment, and I'm sometimes very direct. So I guess it's a very interesting name because you guys are acquiring more than wholesaling.

But you kinda mentioned there was a reason why you guys went down with Simple Wholesaling. You wanna share the the the name or the idea behind the brand.

Brett: Yeah. And I'm not very good at at this. You're probably a lot better than I am about branding, Steve. And, you know Why don't

Brian: you talk about some of your other business names before

Brett: you talk about this? I had, like, Indiana Luxury Homes and name company after my daughter, Kalyn and Company. Anyways, that was that's fun. But basically, for me, I just wanted a simple business. I've had complicated where I was trying to just do all these different things, and it was just too complicated.

So number one, I needed it just a simple I'm a simple man. I want a simple life. So simple was huge for me. And and wholesaling, I'm not saying that we've never assigned deals and and we've, you know, got them on a contract and assigned them. We have done a lot of that too.

But we we just said our model now is just, taking them down and then cleaning them out and then selling them. So we do more of the wholetailing

Brian: Mhmm.

Brett: Model now for us. Yeah. But we do wholesale too. But it was more also too of, we love bringing value and educating people. And in our business, we we educate we educate wholesalers too.

So we have a meetup in Indianapolis that we're educating wholesalers. And that was one thing I always wanted to get to. And and, you know, we're kinda putting some of that stuff in place is, simple wholesaling can also educate other wholesalers.

Steve: Sure.

Brian: And I think that was you know, when you started that, and it was you actually started, like, right before I kinda started in things, and I kinda took that over. But, you know, a lot of people kinda gave us some flack and said, what are you guys doing? You're just you're training your competition. And really what that ended up doing was kinda doubling our business.

Steve: Yeah.

Brian: So we're able to, you know, help other wholesalers and kinda teach them along the way, but also be that buyer for them when they, you know, maybe we wanna they wanna walk through the whole deal with us, and we'll we'll do that. Or they, you know, they said there's a little hair on the deal and they can't figure it out, or their buyers they're starting off, so their buyers list isn't that great. So we've always been there to kinda help out, and we're, you know I think, actually, last year, we were the largest buyer in Indianapolis, you know, for cash deals and stuff. So Well,

Steve: I think it goes back to because you mentioned John Maxwell earlier. Right? Like, leadership is a is is an idea of abundance. And your abundance, you're giving, and the more you give, the more you receive.

Brett: Exactly.

Steve: So it works really well. So, I have shut down my meetup since March because of COVID. I don't want to shut it down, but I also don't wanna be like, there was a 150 people at your meetup.

Brian: Right. Right.

Steve: And we can say that that was a super spider event.

Brett: Right. Right.

Steve: So what are you guys doing?

Brian: So we're doing everything virtual Right. Right now. So there is, like, some some Rias and things in Indianapolis that are meeting in person, but we just went ahead and went all virtual. We don't have to worry about and I don't have to worry about, like, taking temperatures and and doing all that, but I think it's just the smart and safe thing to do right now just to to, you know, be okay. So we also we have a Facebook group just called Wholesaling Made Simple and, you know, so we're putting out, you know, different vlogs and different videos and things on each and every day, but we just do our our meetups virtual through there and that's kind of how we've done it and, you know, so we've still been able to gain, you know, have some traction with that and be able to work with other people and, you know, it's not ideal.

It's not the best, but at least we're able to still give back in some way. And we have a lot of people reaching out to us still, and we're still working deals with them and helping them out in any way we can.

Steve: What's your engagement like in that in that, online Zoom? You know, it's it's

Brian: it's it's meant you know, we so our meetups, us, we got it, you know, we got to the point where we're like having about 80 to a 100 people, you know, every month and that was, you know, pretty good. We're pretty happy with that. You know, the the Rias in town, we're getting like maybe 140.

Brett: Mhmm.

Brian: So we were like right there and we felt pretty good about it. The engagement with what we have on there, you know, we'll maybe have 20 to 30 people, you know, beyond be online with us, but then we'll have you know, you see you get to see a lot of people that watch it afterwards and things. And there's people that are, you know, asking questions. We're able to offer some answers right there on the spot and things. So, like I said, it's not isn't it the numbers aren't great of what we really want it to be compared to if we were in person, but it's still there.

So we've been happy with it.

Steve: Yeah. And I'm just asking because I'm just I mean, I'm kinda going through that situation. Like, do I wanna do this online? It's like, no. No.

Not really.

Brett: Yeah.

Brian: It's it is always tough when you're, like, watch like, when you know you're usually in a front of a room of, like, you know, a 100 people and then, like, you're watching it online, you see the little eyeball up there and, like, there's 15 people in the room. Now there's 21. Yeah. It's like, alright. But I've always been told of, like, kinda, like, hey, if there's 20 people that are watching it live, there's gonna be five times that that watch it afterwards.

And then that's kinda held true. So I and knowing that helps out a little bit.

Brett: Sure. I think the biggest thing, that Brian has brought to the table is consistency. So if you know my personality, sometimes I start something, I'm super fast just to jump in and then Visionary. Kinda wave a little bit. Right?

Steve: Shiny object. What what is it? Yeah.

Brett: Yeah. But he's he's very consistent. And Yeah. And it's kinda rubbed off on me too. It's like, hey.

This isn't ideal, but are we at least kicking the ball down the field, getting getting the first down, you know, whatever, and just continuously slowly moving forward. I think that happens a lot with wholesalers, with people who start podcasts. You know? You see how many people start a podcast, and 20 episodes later, they just, I don't feel like doing that anymore.

Steve: Yeah. They fizzle out.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. And, just so if you're doing anything, I think that what we've been able to do is we've been putting this meetup on for three plus years. I have my own podcast that I've been doing for four years.

We have the indie investor pod. We're on episode 65 or six. Yeah. So just trying to be consistent with whatever you're gonna do.

Steve: So I I wanna hit on that or emphasize this because, Tucker Merrick was on the show, not too long ago. And he said that when he started that podcast, he didn't think anything was gonna come of it. And it's been a huge source of business for him. What has been your experience with podcasting? You know, when local podcasting?

Brian: Yeah. When all this when all the COVID stuff hit, you know, we were worried right away of, like, we need to help out our buyers and make sure our buyers list is is strong as it's ever been. You know, that's kinda what we thought right away of like, oh, inventory is gonna be great, buyers are gonna be tough. It was the exact opposite that actually happened but we kind of had that idea of like, hey, let's just let's kind of come to that educational heart as well of let's go ahead and do a local podcast that's just all about, you know, educating people that are doing deals Indy, that are investing in Indy in any way. You know, there's a lot of out of state investors that, you know, do work in Indianapolis.

They can't necessarily have eyes there and ears there all the time. So it was just something that we wanna do. There's not we don't promote anything on it. We don't really do anything like that. It's just all about helping people understand indie, understanding the neighborhoods, understanding different strategies.

And and through that, it's actually it's it's got a lot of traction and it's helped a lot of people out. And to be honest with you, I've never actually looked at the numbers of how many people listen to it or how many times it's downloaded, but I, you know, I do pay attention when I hear you know, I have a conversation with, you know, just a random person like, oh, man. I love your podcast. It's helped me out so much. Like, I've I've bought three deals off one of the strategies you talked about and this thing.

So that's been really fulfilling and and really cool. And so I I feel like it's starting to even gain a little bit more traction than but, you know, right now. But it's I feel like it's helping buyers out, which is a 100% what we wanted to do. You know, the toughest thing is is when you have and people investing in your city, that's what we wanna give back to our city in any way of Indianapolis. So when you have somebody investing in there and they're buying in the deal off of a wholesaler that doesn't know what they're doing or they get ripped off by a contractor or the realtor messes something up, like, that's going to come back and affect all of us.

So, yeah. So it's just we just went you know, like I said, I just wanna we wanna make sure that we're helping out people in any way that we can. And, you know, it's I'm sure some of the people that that's not our advice isn't gonna be work a 100% of the time, but it works for us right now. So Yeah.

Steve: Well, and I I just really wanna hammer this point for the guys that are listening because, you know, Tucker started it and he had a huge, had traction with it. And he started, like, I think, like, four or five years ago. You've been doing your national won for four years, but your Indian won, just this past year.

Brett: I

Steve: see. Yeah. And you're gaining traction from it. So I don't want I want everyone to listen to this thing. Like, don't think it's too late.

It's not. Right? Like, there's plenty of opportunity. Just get out there, put out content, and, you know, people will find you,

Brett: by by taking

Steve: that action.

Brett: And the whole local thing, I think it's just I think anybody can do it, honestly. And it's so much needed. And I think that's why we get it's just different. Different. Right?

You you see a lot of national real estate podcasts, which is great. And but you don't see a lot of, you know, localized indie investor pod. And I just think that's this difference. So I think, you know, you always have to think about how can you differentiate yourself from from the competition. These are just a couple of things that that we have been consistent with podcasts.

And my national podcast, yeah, it's been it's been awesome. I get, you know, thousands of listeners a month. I think we're up you know, we're not the biggest by any means. I think we get about 10,000 listeners a month, something like that. So it's been great.

I've gotten a lot of private lenders from it. People just reaching out because they think you know, they feel like they know you. Yeah. Right? And they're like, oh, I start talking to them on the phone.

I talk about my family. Like, oh, yeah. Your daughter, you know, went home trick or treating last week or something. Like, how do you know? Right.

You know? But it's pretty crazy because they heard me on the podcast.

Brian: So Well, the best thing about podcasts and, you know, like, it's sometimes you reach out to somebody, it's tough to be like, hey. Can can we have a half hour conversation or an hour conversation on the phone? They're like, no. I don't have time for that. But, hey.

Do you wanna be on my podcast? Oh, yeah. Book me. Let's let's do it. So Oh, yeah.

Steve: I mean, that's been one of my, you know, closely held secrets is this helped me open a lot of doors.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So, speaking of opening doors, so you guys have been, like, we connected really just the last few months

Brett: Mhmm.

Steve: Through Collective Genius. You wanna talk about what that's done for you guys' business?

Brett: Yeah. That's been, again, game changer. And that was another just component of when we really started scaling the business. So I joined Collective Genius. That was about four years ago.

And then someone new, Jason Medley, introduced me to him. And I was doing about a 100 deals a year, something like that at that time. Literally within two years, we were doing 300 deals a year. Mhmm. And and I really, attribute a lot of it to that group, because I think it's just different.

You know? Let's go back to sports, for example. When I was in high school, I was the basketball star. Right? And and I was like felt like I was the big shot.

You know, I'm walking around, get my name in the local paper, and I'm getting MVP of the county tournament, stuff like that. And then I get a full ride basketball scholarship to college. Well, guess what? Everybody was an all star in their high school team. Right?

And just think about the NBA. Well, CG is like it's like the NBA of real estate investors. Mhmm. So now you're not the big shot. You can really learn a lot from other individuals, so many strategies, techniques, systems, you know, people, just the resources that you have.

We've gained so much traction from it, and it's been a huge component of our business. Yeah. And

Brian: the the connections, the affiliates, and stuff like that that build up through it. And, I mean, there's a lot of really good masterminds throughout the nation. So I think no matter what you're doing, if you can't get connected with CG or whatever it is, like, find one and just even if it's a local one or a national one, I think it's I think it's really important. I know it's made a huge difference in our business. Mhmm.

Steve: Absolutely. So for the people that are listening right now, I mean, we're saying 300 stepping out of your company. That doesn't hit a lot of people. So for someone that's listening right now trying to work on their first 10 to 20 deals, what advice would you give someone trying to do their first deals at the moment?

Brian: So I say, number one, find a list of some kind that you can work.

Steve: So I

Brian: think if, you know, I think I just got asked that question last week of, like, what would you do with your first thousand dollars if you were a wholesaler? 100% I'd buy a list. Yeah. And then, you know, from there, figure out what strategy works for you. You know, when you're looking at lead generation, what do you what you know, there's so many different things that you can do in lead generation.

We've done just about anything and everything you can think of. We tried it. We failed at it, and we've done well at some. But really, what works for your personality? Like, for example, I do not wanna be on the phone.

It's cool calling people. It doesn't work for me. But some people, that's that's great. That's what they that's what they work through. So figure out what fits your personality, what fits your strengths, and then, you know, really work those lead generation systems.

And then, you know, from there, it's it's really all about kind of that that lead generation piece, but then also just being consistent with follow-up.

Brett: So

Brian: There's no magic formula for there's no magic list. There's some there's some glists that are better than others, but really what comes down to is all the follow-up on those lists and and making sure you can touch base with each every each person and, you know, really just make sure that you you consistently have that follow-up with them. I think

Steve: that that's what it comes down to. So what would you qualify as your top three lead sources?

Brian: So we started doing TV this year. That's been really good for us. I guess, like, our number one right now. And then, direct we've always done direct mail. We've always been pretty good at direct mail.

It's got a lot of deals for us, but I think TV has kind of overtaken it now lately. And then from there, PPC, we get some really good leads from PPC. I think those are probably our top three if I had to list them off. So

Steve: who are you guys using for printing?

Brian: Direct One. Direct One. Yeah. So, yeah, they've been really easy to work with. I, you know, have nothing but good things to say about them.

They're they, you know, I'm doing the copy right now for all of our marketing and stuff like that. I'll send something in. They'll give me notes on it and then kinda let, like, maybe she changes word and there's been sometimes, like, oh, no. It's okay. I like it how it says and they were probably right and that was one of our worst marketing pieces that we sent out, but, I'd say with that too, it kind of depends on where you are.

I know with a lot of our marketing that we're doing through, through, you know, through our direct mail and stuff, we focus more on, hey, we are a business, we're legit, we're professional, and that's kind of the Since we've done that, we've got a lot less of the phone calls, like, hey, take me off your list, you know, stop sending me mail, that kind of thing, because I think it looks a little bit more legitimate. So we've stopped kind of we've moved away from being that, like, guy next door. Oh, I've had I just drove the neighborhood and so we've we've kinda moved away from that. Now we're, you know, trying to take that professional route, and that's that's helped us out through our marketing campaigns.

Steve: Yeah. The branding component.

Brett: Yeah. I would say to, I I know what it's like, you know, to see someone step out of their business doing 300 deals and realizing, man, I'm never gonna to get there. Right? And, I think that what they don't see is just the many, many years of relentless pursuit. Right?

I mean, there's throughout the thirteen years, I can't even count how many times I just wanted to quit and just get a real job and don't wanna do this anymore. Right? But I didn't. And I kept getting up and just kept kicking the ball down the field, just kept moving forward. So whatever you have to do, honestly.

And then my first hire, we're we're sitting here writing letters, handwritten, mailing them and stuffing them. And and that sounds stupid, but it that's what we did because we didn't have a lot of money to to do all this fancy TV commercials at that time.

Brian: And what I really find too is, like, there's a lot of guys out there doing, like, you know, one or two deals a month or five. They have better strategies than us. Like, we're in a good situation right now because we have money and that's that works for us. But, you know, there's things that, like, we'll we'll work with the wholesaler on a deal and then having a conversation with them, like, how'd you get this? And, like, why aren't we doing that?

Like, it's really good. So I think if, you know, if you're in that boat and as long as you're hustling and you're doing the things that are strong to that are strengths of yours, you're gonna end up being pretty good. Yeah.

Steve: Absolutely. And I think just to your point, I think, you know, that probably around eight or nine times, I was like, I figured this out only to be humbled. And then and then on the other side is like, why the hell am I doing this to myself? Yeah. And, you know, like, let's

Brett: just burn this place down, collect the insurance

Steve: money. Yeah. And then you get this place down, collect the insurance money.

Brett: Yeah. And then you get

Brian: a monster deal and you're like, alright. Let's keep you up. Yeah.

Brett: So that

Steve: sort of works. So what do you guys' I mean, right now as far as overhead, you know, to run an operation to do do to be doing 300 deals a year, like, what does that overhead look like?

Brian: You wanna take it? Yeah.

Brett: I mean, you know, when you talk about overhead, so a lot of our people are paid off of commissions. Mhmm. So, obviously, their payroll kinda fluctuates up and down. As far as our marketing expense, that's that's fluctuated too. Right now, I think we spend about, $30,000 a month in marketing, right now, and that's been that's been going up since we've been doing well.

And then other than that, I'd say besides all the commissions and all that stuff, we're spending, I don't know, probably about 45,000, something like that. Yeah. So, so so it's a big you know, that's a lot of money. Right?

Steve: It is a lot of money.

Brett: Yeah. But, but I think it's just this is it's not a lot of money if I told you you could put $45,000 and make a 100.

Steve: Right.

Brett: Then you knew it worked. It's just that's just a numbers game. So Yeah. It used to be I would put in $5 and make 8. Right?

Mhmm. It just has grown over the years. Sure. So

Steve: It's it's just a matter of scaling. And, Eric Brewer says, hey.

Brian: Hey, Eric. You'd agree. Yeah. I I love that show that you did. You guys did a couple weeks ago.

Steve: So Yeah. That guy's a monster as well. And then Clay Manship says, well, a couple of ugly mugs.

Brian: We love you, Clay.

Steve: So Ka, Ka Tran wants to know, is a wholesale business the only is a wholesale business the only wholesales sellable? And we and you kinda touched on that moment ago. Do you wanna answer that question?

Brett: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. You might know this more than myself, Steve. But have you ever met anyone who has sold their wholesale business?

Steve: Actually sold their wholesale business. I don't know anyone that's sold it. No. I mean, I've seen, like, partnerships, you know, kinda talk about, like, you know, selling a portion of it. Mhmm.

Brett: But I

Steve: don't know anyone that's actually sold it and stepped away. Right.

Brian: Yeah. So, essentially, you'd be, like, selling the brand is really what that kinda comes into, which in Indianapolis, we do have a pretty good brand. So it might be Well,

Steve: you would have to sell the brand. You have to sell the systems.

Brett: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Steve: Policies, procedures

Brett: And the people.

Steve: And sell that sell the employees on staying. Yeah.

Brett: Right. And that and that's true. They and, you you know, if you sold your wholesale business and everybody just walked away, you have some systems, but what is that worth? Right? So, so I think it is sellable, but it is limited.

I think, you know, when and my thought, I thought I thought, if I sold the business, I would have to sell it to the people someone working in the business, and I would probably have to sell or finance it is what I thought. So I'm not saying no, but I haven't met anybody who who sold their business unless it was to their employees.

Steve: Yeah. Because you you generally look. Right? Like, for a lot of businesses, three times three x multi multiplier. And I don't know anyone that would pay a three x multiplier

Brett: Right.

Steve: For a wholesaling business. Mhmm.

Brett: Yeah. Most of most of the value is in the inventory. Mhmm. You know? And I would say that.

So it's not like an educational course where you got residual Right. Income coming in all time, subscriptions. So

Steve: and then we see you got a lot of love here. So, you know, there's a math there's a math teacher in here, Joseph Prather.

Brett: Nice.

Steve: Jeffrey Smith says that, you know, you've been really helpful for, for him. So the cash house buyers team. How do you decipher a person who's right for your team when you are scaling?

Brian: So we can take that, like, from kind of where we were to where we are now. Like, it really was, like, just kinda, like, filling in places. Like, oh, I need somebody to do this. They seem like it'd be a good fit. But now it's, you know, we're gonna have them take a personality profile test and figure out, you know, kind of what their strengths are and what, you know, maybe what they need to improve and those types of things.

And then really, do they fit our culture as well? So like one of the things that one of the big things with us us is like really so you know, they say that, you know, that the best salesman and is, you know, high a on the predictive index and and that kind of thing. That sometimes doesn't really fit in with our culture and our team and stuff and we've had that on our team and they haven't worked out and we had to let them go. So, you know, we're gonna make sure that they might have the right personality profile, but then also to just make sure that, you know, they fit in with our culture and then what needs to be done. Another thing with your scaling too, don't, you know, don't hire later than you need to.

So if you're if you're already at, like, 80% capacity, it's time to hire. So don't get to that a 100% capacity and then hire them because you don't have time to train. You hire

Steve: out of hiring out of desperation.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: That's the worst place to hire from.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And we've tried some different things. So what Brian said, the personality test has been good. We've tried, you know, giving people kind of some tasks to see how they do first.

We've done some of that before we bring them on full full bore. And, yeah. So I think we've definitely gotten a lot better at it, and we have a better system now.

Brian: We've got to the point twice now that we've kind of got, like, too fat as a team where we had too many people. We're like, hey. We need to let's cut back. Like, we operate better as a smaller team. And Mhmm.

Yeah. Like, right now, you know, we only have really five people. I count you as part time, and my wife is is part time. So really, like, six, you know, six six people and then six VAs is what we operate off of. So

Brett: And most of the time, we've hired fast. I've hired fast, which is totally wrong. Take your time. Be patient. And we fired very, very slow.

So it's very painful. Six months of, you know, moving someone around in different positions thinking they're gonna be good here when they weren't good there. Yeah. And that's just not the way to do it.

Brian: And we do put an emphasis on culture. It's really easy. You get attached to those people when you you you brought them in because you like them and they fit with you and things. And then it's like, we don't really want those to be here. Let's try them here.

Let's try them there when reality is like You're ready to just let them go.

Steve: You already knew. Yep. Yeah. Yep. I I make the mistake often of hiring fast.

Just like, you know, fall in love really fast. Yeah. You know, let's give them a shot, especially for salespeople. Mhmm. You know?

But the hiring or firing slow, that's just a slow death for everybody. Everyone's suffering.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was

Steve: like mom and dad are fighting. Yeah. They're ready for divorce and the kids know it. But

Brian: But honestly, from my experience of, like, you know, those people that we have let go, like, I've had multiple of them, like, reach out to me and say, like, you know, it might be two months later or even a year later, like, reach out and say, hey. Thanks a lot. Like, I appreciate that you did let me go because it was the right time. And, you know, it was I I can see the struggle now, but, like, thanks a lot for the opportunity. So that at least that that is a saving grace a lot.

Steve: Yeah. That's why I actually had that exact conversation on the way here. Yeah. Someone was like, yeah. You know, it didn't work out, but I I learned so much from you.

That really helped me

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: On on my next spot.

Brett: Yeah. So is always the is the toughest thing.

Steve: That's the hardest one.

Brett: It's always the toughest.

Steve: Yep. So Joseph wants to know, he he's heard you guys talking about putting on an education course. What do you guys suggest when picking a mentorship?

Brian: So I think it really just comes down to of make sure that they are that that mentor is actually doing what you wanna be doing. So if you wanna wholesale, don't, you know, don't work with someone that's, like, only wholetailing or is a is a is a flipper or something like that. I think a lot of people fall in that trap, but then also make sure you sit down, like, take them, you know, have coffee, have lunch, something like that, and make sure that you line up with your core values. We preach out a lot of, like, make sure that the people that you're working with or learning from, like, have the same core values as you because when you get when you start working a deal together, that's what's gonna kinda make or break that deal of how it actually works out and making sure that you're both comfortable with how it plays out.

Steve: Yeah. And then that core values point is really, really important. Yeah.

Brett: And and a lot of times, people are against, you know, paying for mentors. And, obviously, there's a lot of bad mentors that charge a lot of money, and they're not good. But I but I'm not against paying for mentorship. I think that I I even pay for mentors today. Yeah.

But someone that kinda fits me, that fits what I like. I'm kind of a laid back person. And, you know, Brian talked about the core values. So if I had a super type a driven, hey. You need to crush the competition, that's not gonna fit me.

Right? Right. So find someone that's just, you know, kind of, you know, has the same kind of, you know, fits your personality style as well.

Steve: Yeah. And I think also you gotta look at the mentor for who you are today because who you are in two years from now, you're getting a different mentor than the one you have today.

Brett: Mhmm. Exactly.

Brian: You can easily outgrow your mentor and Yeah. And things. Yeah. I think it's something too of just, you know, obviously not jump going up and like, hey, Steve, can you mentor me and things? So actually having a conversation with them and see if there is, you know, some commonality there and maybe, you know, maybe help them out in some way or go do something with them, making sure you have those conversations all of a sudden, oh, this this seems like, you know, they're gonna reach out to you and be like, oh, you know, I'm gonna I wanna help them out.

Like, it's gonna be kinda more on them as much as it is on you. I think it's important.

Steve: Cool. Let's see. Is there anything else? Yeah. Robert emphasized character alignment.

Guys, if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask those questions. So let's talk about right now, November 2020. What are you guys' biggest challenges at this moment?

Brian: We'll see you after the election now.

Brett: Might be

Brian: over. So, I think one of our biggest challenges kind of within the business of what we're going through right now is, you know, with how competitive it is of we we have never been, like, we've never been in that position where we offer at the door. We've always been, you know, kind of in that boat of our guys go out, do the walk through, they kinda, you know, send us over the notes. Brett and I have always anal been the one to analyze the deals, so and then he's he's done with that now. Like, I've been doing it.

So we've kind of always had this, like, kind of, I guess, just, you know, a lag in that system. But now it's, you know, kind of making sure we have the right sales training going on to where we are ready and we're prepared and we've analyzed correctly so we can offer the the the door. Because a lot of times, if you can't offer the door, you're gonna end up losing, you know, one out of, you know, five of those deals or whatever. So luckily, your your sales training you've been doing the last couple weeks have been awesome. So

Brett: Oh, I

Brian: appreciate your help. A lot. Yeah. That's awesome. Our guy got a deal the other like, it was just last week.

He got a deal. And everybody like this Steve Trang stuff is working. It's awesome. So Yeah.

Steve: Awesome. Very happy to hear that.

Brett: I think I think the biggest thing that we've really been struggling with is, just like everybody else, is the inventory. Mhmm. Deals are flying off the shelf, and, we can't keep enough houses. And so we're trying to figure out what's that gonna look like and after the election and then all this stuff next year. I I don't know.

Honestly, it's unpredictable. But I think that's where great teams come in. Mhmm. They have to adjust. I mean, you probably know too.

It's like how many times have you had to adjust your business in in the years? Feel like we have to adjust something every year, every two years.

Brian: Yeah. And what you you need to do. It's just like especially this year. This year has been just so unpredictable. It's something you know, we talked about earlier of, like, we thought it was gonna be, like, inventory is gonna be high and the buyers are gonna be scarce.

It was the exact opposite. But just being able to kinda take what what comes in and just be able to adjust to it and, you know, nobody's new new system we're running right now is probably gonna be that same system that we're operating, you know, two quarters from now. It's gonna change in some way.

Steve: Oh, absolutely.

Brian: It's just so it's, you know, basically having all those living, breathing documents that are all up to change. And then also comes down to, like, having that team input of, like, hey, just because it works for me doesn't necessarily means it works for our acquisitions team. So getting their input of, like, what do we need to change? What do we need to fix? And I think that goes a long way.

Steve: One thing you've talked about recently, you've had a couple of presentations on, was purpose. Mhmm. Can you talk about that?

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So I'm big on, you know, on purpose. I gave a presentation at Collective Genius about it and and really finding out, like, your purpose and what makes you come alive.

And, you know, life is is very, very short, honestly. And I I feel like, so I wanna do, the things that that I love doing and that I'm called, to do. And that's different for everybody else. I think that the bottom line is I just want Brett to be more of of Brett. Right?

And I think sometimes we lose ourself in whatever we're doing. Right? And that's part of the real estate thing is, like, I'd loved a lot of parts of the real estate thing, and that was a great season. But maybe maybe this season is not is not that. It's something different.

And my season is more transitioning as to, hey. This is really, really cool, and I love impacting the people on the team. And I think the biggest impact I can have on them is probably letting them lead the business. Right? And that's probably the my role right now.

But how can I, you know, find my purpose in impacting other other things that I'm really passionate about? So, and everybody who's listening is is in different spots. Right? When I was 28 years old, I gotta pay the bills. Right?

I gotta do that stuff. Right now, I'm just in a different different season, and I think you gotta, like, identify what season you're in. And I also don't wanna say, like, hey. Just because I'm stepped out of the business, that's what you have to do. Yeah.

And I think people, maybe take that, the wrong way sometimes because some people do find their purpose in their business. Right? And they enjoy leading. They enjoy leading their team. And I think that's great.

And it's just an individual thing you gotta find.

Steve: Right. I think John Maxwell talks about, you know, the seasons of your life.

Brian: Right?

Steve: And things one of the things he he hits on a lot. So now that you're in this owner's box, what are you doing?

Brett: Well, I mean, that's one of the things that it's kinda cool. It kinda takes yourself back, you know, when you were learning how to do real estate. Right? So I've been meeting with coaches, and I've been actually meeting with this transitional coach that kinda takes people through this transition when you go from he calls and go from your calling to more of your contribution. Right?

And this is kinda what I'm what I'm going through. So as far as what I love doing, I I do enjoy, you know, the content things. I have the podcast that I do, and I gave you I enjoy speaking and pouring into people, in that way. I enjoy, you know, missions and really trying to figure out how I can really help, some types of mission organizations. Those are some things.

So right now, I'm still kind of at the beginning stages. And, and, honestly, just kind of enjoying the ride with it and just kind of taking a step back. I feel like, as an entrepreneur, when you do that, people are like, what are you doing? You know? Like, you you're always doing something, but, like, but you have to take a step back and just, like, just breathe and, like, enjoy.

Like, okay. I don't have to be going a 110 miles an hour all the time. Yeah. You know? And I'm just kinda at that place right now.

Steve: Gotcha. What about you? What is your purpose?

Brian: Right now, to make sure the business doesn't fall apart. So no. I think, kind of, you know, as Brett kind of touched on is now I want to make sure that really so the business is kind of like my purpose and what what I'm doing, not like for life, but it's like what I need to focus on right now. So, that's been unique. And then also bringing my wife on team, now it's like, okay.

Now we have conversations at home about the business and how it's operating and things. But, you know, really with what kind of that means to me is so with, you know, you kinda look at the five stages of business where you have the start up, the perseverance, the profit, the growth, and the succession. Brett's kind of plan was always, like, like, he wanted to get out of the business. He wanted to get to that point where he could it was automated and he didn't have to worry about it and it was kind of going where I kind of feel like we've missed a little bit of that phase of, like, where we can grow. So now it's really digging into, hey, like, with, you know, with our team, where do we want to grow?

Where do we wanna what do we wanna do with this thing? And, you know, we've had this kind of race car that we've kept in the garage for a while. Let's take it out on the track and see what we can do with it. Yeah. So I'm really kind of figuring out, you know, working with, you know, kinda coming back to that leadership thing of, like, working with the team to figure out what their what their purposes are and what their passions are and what we can really do together.

And, you know, education is always something that, you know, I I I loved it. I love to teach. I love to be in front of a room and and that kind of thing. So we got some stuff we're kicking around with with the education thing that we wanna, you know, we're gonna start doing next year and I think that'll really bring a lot of purpose and purpose to my life.

Steve: One thing you guys both touched on was core values. What are your core values?

Brian: Well, that that's interesting. So as we had a we had a meeting with, Gary Harper, two weeks ago, our quarterly, and he, you know, one of his first questions, he's like, so Brian, now that Brett's out of the business, like, are your core values still the same? Like, are now you're the visionary, so do the are the core values that you have within the business, are they the same for how you what your vision is? And I was like, I don't know. Our our our vision has changed a little bit.

Our kind of our team's changed. When Brett first came out with the core values, nobody is on is on that team anymore from that. And honestly, we kinda went from you know, when I first started, we went from really just being like a small group, like, for, you know, kind of a a men's small group, church group that did real estate. Now we're like, okay. Now we're operating as a business.

So, we're actually kind of in the process of kinda going through those, you know, the with the changing up of the core values to make sure it kinda does fit into what what we really need. And the core values that we had, you know, they were, you know, to be mission minded, be a faithful servant, have smart and simple systems, enjoy the ride and leave a lasting impression, and really what those are are those are core culture. That's like that that's who we are as a team, that's how we want to operate and things. So now we're gonna do a vision trip with me and Brett and then Ronnie and Randy, the other two guys in our leadership team, and really kind of dig into, you know, set the vision for next year, but part of that's gonna be like, hey, let's let's dig into our core values and what are they really, and here's kind of you know, Gary went through an exercise with us of, like, hey. These are the five that kinda stick in stand out for Brian's core values.

They really fit in with the team and the vision for next year and going forward.

Brett: So I think that's that's a big thing too is when I came up with core values, I was meeting with my business coach, and, it was really just me. Right? And I just came up with them because that's who I am, and I wanted those extend off, which is most of the time the visionary's, characteristics is the core values. And, this is another thing because when I let go of this bit let go of the business and Brian became CEO, one of my friends says, you know, the business is gonna change. Right?

The culture's gonna change. The core values are gonna change. And I had to say, like, I'm okay with that. Yeah. You know?

If it does, that's that's okay. And, that was just one thing. And then when he talked to me, he's like, hey. I think we might change up our core values again. At first, you're like, what?

I've had those for, like, five years. But then,

Brian: you know I put it off two days having

Brett: a conversation with me. But It's alright. Yeah. You know? And and that's good.

It's good. It's just shifting. It's just shifting the leadership and, and shifting, and I'm the biggest encourager. So

Steve: So for those guys that are listening right now that are trying to establish their core values, what exercise do you guys go through to identify? Because you guys are in flux. But Gary did do an exercise with ES. Yeah.

Brian: It was a great exercise. Loved it. So, basically, what he did is he took our he basically, had me write down or he did it with me, Ronnie, and Randy. He had us take, like, what are who are three people in your life that you just you really admire, that you look up to, that have really kind of made an impact on your life. Mhmm.

And, you know, it can be your wife, it can be it can be somebody really there were a couple stipulations in there and things, but then he basically said, write down three to seven traits that you really admire about them or like about them or that you really stood out to you. And then basically, from there, he had us, like, take like, look through the list of all three of the people and the three to seven things and then basically kind of look at a sheet of core values that had, like, the top 100 core values from, you know, all businesses all over the world, and, like, basically kind of sum up those basically, all those basically all those traits within the the three to seven things. And really when you're doing that, even though you're describing the those three people, what you're really doing is describing yourself. Right.

Steve: What

Brian: are the things that are really important to you and stuff and there were five that really jumped out on the sheet of like, hey, these are Brian's core values and,

Brett: you know,

Brian: he's like, oh, I want you to take this one one off. I'm like, no. That's important. He's like, yeah. That's that's why it's core.

That that's good. You passed the test. So Yeah. Yeah. So I thought that was a really good exercise and and things too.

And then kinda coming back to the hiring thing, you know, we talked about the personality test and stuff, and he said, how do you make sure someone is like, fits in with your team? And we were brainstorming and coming up with different ideas. Like, oh, I would do this, and you could ask this question. He's like, guys, just just do this exercise. Right.

Oh, yeah. Okay. This works.

Brett: Well,

Steve: it's funny because that's actually in our interview. We you know, who are the three people you admire most? What do you like about them? And that's that's part of our interviewing screening process.

Brett: Mhmm. Wow.

Steve: So very interesting. Was there a book that you've gifted more than any other?

Brian: I think two really stand out. I'd say Traction and then Never Split the Difference. These are always the two that that I keep coming back to and I've gifted, yeah, multiple times. So yeah.

Brett: Yeah. I've actually gifted a book no one's probably heard of, but, it really helped me. And I gave it to my brother and my dad, and they they started buying copies of it too. And it's a book called The True Measure of a Man, and that's a short book. Highly, highly recommend it if you're in a season that I have gone through where your identity has been attached to your business.

I recommended that one. That's been a book. And one book that really, really changed my life earlier was, The Millionaire Next Door.

Brian: It was the first book he gifted to me.

Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And that was just a great book because it really talked about how most millionaires are really just living next door and they drive a Ford and you would never tell.

Steve: Right.

Brett: The guys driving the brand new Benzes are broke. It's

Steve: it's sad only because I remember you gave that presentation. I wrote down that book, The True Measurement Man. Yeah. I haven't taken any action with it.

Brett: I have about 20 copies. I'm gonna gift it to you. Alright.

Steve: Well, I appreciate that. So I want you guys to think about a thought, something you wanna leave the listeners with while I make a few quick announcements. So, guys, if you got value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. That really help us help us with the algorithms so we can help more people. We have Cody Pirtle and Jared Graves coming in next week, from Houston, Texas.

And again, we have our workshop next Saturday and Sunday. If you guys wanna check that out, go to disruptors.com/workshop. And then we do have Eric Brewer and the Brewer Method tomorrow. We're gonna be talking about how he's using to just do more deals at larger volumes. It's really kinda crazy how that whole math works.

Brian: That's solid stuff. I love that. Yeah.

Steve: So if you guys wanna check that out, again, disruptors.com/workshop or brewer method dot com. So last thoughts.

Brian: Thoughts. You know, just based off this conversation, some things we talked about, I think it really comes down to, like, figuring out what that purpose is of what you what you kind of wanted. And Brett, you know, we we meet all the time and he's always asking me, like, oh, what's your purpose? Like, what do you wanna be doing? And, honestly, like, I'm one of those people that, like, I've always struggled with that because I've always just been kind of a people pleaser.

I just you give me a task, I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it well. I'm gonna probably do it better than a lot of people. Like, I just kind of I have to be given that kind of stuff. So it really takes a lot to kind of figure out, like, hey, what is my purpose? What do I really wanna be doing?

So I think coming into, you know, with whatever you're doing in business and whatever you're doing in real estate of kind of figuring out where your niche really is and what kind of really drives you and what motivates you and what do you feel what do you feel that purpose from and just go go after that and tackle that.

Steve: Gotcha. Before we go to you, Clay, butted in here with a question. Brian and Brett, what would be the one thing you would change about your business looking back on things since you guys have been together? So start with you.

Brian: I think, just kinda chasing after the shiny object syndrome instead of not, you know, not spending enough time to analyze stuff. And we're kinda talking about this last night. I was like, kinda he he bought a course one time and he called me on the phone and said, hey. We're, you know, I really think we should start doing this. Let's do it.

And I said, hey. Let's, you know, let's let's sit down. Let's have lunch next week and talk about it. Yeah. And then he called me the next day.

He's like, I bought it.

Brett: I bought the big package.

Brian: So, like, kind of like being, like, kind of upfront about, like, hey, let's not let's not make any big decisions until we're over the bar. Chief course either though. He lives in a car.

Brett: That one hurt. That's a $40.

Brian: That one hurt. Yeah. So Wow. So, yeah, I think really just kinda taking the time and have those, you know, really basically, like, kinda have the checks and balances. Like, hey.

Before you do anything huge or before we do anything huge, let's let's make sure we're both on board before we do it.

Steve: So Yeah. My partner probably feels that way about me. So anything how would you answer Clay's question?

Brett: My answer earlier would be, scale earlier. Right? Because I have for six or seven years, I was a one man show. And then once we start building a team, just wish that I, you know, would have probably went through this process a little bit earlier, had the courage to to do it Yeah. To step out.

So

Steve: Gotcha. For me. And then what last thoughts do you wanna leave the

Brett: listeners with? I'll leave you with this is, there's an author and a coach named Dan Sullivan, and I kinda went through this process when I when I made this decision. And he calls it the four c's. And so and you can kinda do this with anything. When you're gonna make a big decision about anything, just commit to it.

Number one, you gotta just go all in and commit to it. The second one is have courage. Take a lot of courage to step out. Take a lot of courage to step in. Right?

Same thing. The next one is once you get the courage, you get the capability. So you get the skills to do it. And then last is you get the confidence. So those are some of the steps I committed to stepping out.

I had the courage to do it. It was not easy. Now I'm starting I'm getting the capability. They're getting the skills to do it. And then now they're doing so well.

It gives me confidence.

Steve: So Yeah. Dance all over is great. So I'm assuming you've gone through strategic coach?

Brett: I haven't actually done that. I've read a lot of his books, but I haven't I haven't gone through the actual programs. Yeah.

Steve: Gone through it. It's a pretty good program.

Brett: Awesome.

Steve: Yep. Alright. So someone wanted to get a hold of you, how would they do that?

Brett: I would just probably, shoot me an email. It's brett, brett,@simplewholesaling.com.

Brian: Same here. It's brian@simplewholesaling.com.

Steve: So Alright. Perfect. Alright. Great show, guys. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Steve. Thanks for flying.

Brett: Appreciate it. Yeah.

Brian: Thanks a lot, man.

Brett: Yeah. Alright.

Steve: Appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys.

Brian: Yeah. See, we real estate disruptors. Can't nobody touch us. And, yeah, we about to give you gains. Shout out to Steve Train.

Will it say disrupt us? They cannot touch us. And, yeah, we about to give you game. Shout out to Steve Train. Jump on the Steve Train.

We about to give you game. Already ass flowing through my veins. And you don't have to look no further. See right here you gonna learn everything Shout out to Steve Train Yeah, see we real estate disruptors