$100,000+ per Month Working 5 Hours per Week. Terry Thayer Shares How He Went From Contractor to Building a Real Estate Empire.

Steve Trang: Hey everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of real estate disruptors. Today we have Terry Thayer with Tab Tribe and he flew in from Raleigh, North Carolina to talk about how you make 6 figures per month only working for five hours per week which is absolutely ridiculous. If this is your first time tuning in, I am Steve Trang founder of the offer fast homes app. The only MLS for off market wholesale properties and I want to make sure to create 100 millionaires.

One question I get a lot is how to become one of the 100 millionaires. I'm not trying to sell you anything here. This podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. Just take consistent action and you will become one. When you hear a nugget, please just type it in the comment section.

After the show, identify your single biggest takeaway and focus on just that for the next seven days. If you get value today, please tag our friend below, share this episode right now. That way we can all grow together. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Terry to answer. You You ready?

Terry Thayer: I'm ready, man. Let's do it.

Steve: Alright. So first question is what got you into real estate?

Terry: Birth. I was born.

Steve: From day one.

Terry: From day one, I just came out and started flipping. What else? Is is that now how it works? I, I was a a I was a contractor. My dad was a contractor, carpenter.

So I grew up as a carpenter, been in job sites my entire life, like, literally my entire life. That's why I say birth jokingly. But, yeah, I was I I became my own contractor, you know, left my father when I was young. I was about 20, 21, 22 years old and, started doing became my own business, started my own business in '97. And then in 2002, I started flipping houses.

Mhmm. So just a friend of mine, we decided to buy a house, cut a roof off it, put a second floor addition. And, we it was right by a university. So we actually kept this one to make it a rental property, a four bed, four bath rental property. We get $6.50 per room on a house that we bought for 100, had less than 100 more into it.

And we're, you know, we're doing some serious cash flow. So that's how I got started. It was by accident, really.

Steve: How how difficult was that first transaction?

Terry: It was so back then, I mean, it was or at least thinking about it back then, it was it was easy. It was in my business partner's neighborhood, like, literally right around the corner. We found a house that was for sale by by, by, a realtor, had a sign out front, went and talked to him, talked to the realtor. And back then, you can go to a bank and you can get loans pretty easily. Right?

So it was, it was easy. Let me rephrase. I was not the business end of it. So it was easy for me to get that deal because I had no part in it. I was more of the contractor part of it.

But yeah, it was honestly like what started and then we just got hooked, and we started buying properties all throughout that neighborhood and then other neighborhoods. And

Steve: So you're just buying properties that acquired properties?

Terry: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we were buying them, flipping them, buying them for, so we're we're doing as a lot of investors were seeing this four bed, four bath thing. Right? So we would buy houses.

We had, buyers lined up from the beginning. Right? So we had buyers before we had properties.

Steve: Nice. And we

Terry: were buying these houses, doing the same thing and then just selling them to these investors. So we were flipping them right to them and then they were they would pay anything. And it was just like they were lined up for it. So it was pretty cool times.

Steve: So this you say around 2002?

Terry: 2002. So almost twenty years ago.

Steve: So a lot of people that are newer today don't appreciate how much harder it was to get data back then.

Terry: Yeah. Oh, it was it didn't happen.

Steve: Yeah. So how were you finding sellers?

Terry: Back oh, sellers? Yeah. So back then, sellers, it was literally just what was on the MLS.

Steve: Okay. So you're buying directly from the MLS?

Terry: Yeah. Just I mean, we would hold on. That's how we started

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Was we would buy houses that were listed. And then people were just coming to us because there was a lot of rental properties in this neighborhood. Mhmm. They were coming to us and they were just, like, like, selling us properties. It was just like, hey.

You wanna buy another one? You wanna buy wanna buy another one?

Steve: Okay. So they were finding you.

Terry: Yeah. That's part of it. The other part of it is, like, literally, it was probably six streets. And the longest street was probably 500 yards. So we didn't drive from house to house.

Like, I was literally walking to it was like I was in a neighborhood, like a subdivision building. Right? We had so many properties. We had twelve, fifteen houses going on in this little area. So I got to know everybody.

So it was just, like, it was just talking, having conversations with people, and just learning everybody in the neighborhood. And that's how it started. So nothing like what it would be done today. That's the twenty year old model.

Steve: Alright. So you start there. How long was that model working out for you?

Terry: All the way up till about o six, o seven.

Steve: Okay. And when something happened?

Terry: Yeah. It was yeah. Something happened. It's the crash of o eight. Right?

That's when everything, went to hell, and the banks weren't lending. And, you know, I felt like, I was telling somebody yesterday. I said, you know, back then, I can remember my business partner being like, hey. Come in and sign some documents. We were doing some pretty big houses.

They were million dollar houses. We're tearing them down and build new houses. And I'd co sign some papers. Nobody asked me my Social Security number. Nothing.

I'm like, I feel like I was robbing a bank every time I walked out of there.

Steve: I thought you could fog a mirror.

Terry: Ex exactly. And then literally that like a switch that shut off. Mhmm. So, we were doing high end renovations for people for several years because I didn't I didn't know what private money was. I never heard private money.

Steve: We didn't need private money.

Terry: Didn't need private money. Right? I didn't know it existed until 2012. That's when I learned. I'm like, alright.

Game on. Let's go.

Steve: So were you still doing contracting work as well back then?

Terry: No. No. I I I pretty much I mean, I was, like, a contractor for myself. Like, I had my crews for myself, and that was it.

Steve: So the the lesson because I started around that time. The lesson I learned, and it's still even though it didn't happen to me, like, I got to witness it a lot. Every contractor lost everything, including their marriage. A lot of realtors lost everything, including their marriage.

Terry: Yeah.

Steve: So I play things a little safer than than I might naturally. So, like, did you did you witness that? Did you experience any of that?

Terry: Oh, witnessed it. Yes. So luckily, my business partner ended up, we we we separated around around o seven. We had our last house finish up, just before then, and I had a granite fabrication shop. That's where I got hurt.

Mhmm.

Steve: So we

Terry: had a granite fabrication shop, and and we had a a ton of money into it. And literally, it was like the lights switched off one night, And all these builders that we did work for went bankrupt, so they owed me a ton of money

Steve: That you can't collect on.

Terry: That I can't collect. Right. Because the banks basically forced them into foreclosure Yeah. All their homes to call the loans to.

Steve: So then what happened to your granite

Terry: business? I shut it down. I sold everything off. I got as many people paid as possible.

Steve: But you walk a walk did you walk away from that unscathed?

Terry: No. Uh-uh. No. So I I I sold everything off. I threw my tool belt on.

Was doing work for for homeowners. Right? That's when I started doing the high end renovations, and I worked my way out of debt, only I didn't pay one person, uncle Sam. So that was starting to get on me really bad. So after a couple years not paying taxes, I ended up my neighbor was like, man, you need to you need to do something about this.

I'm like, why? I just worked my way out of this debt. I can work my way out of that. He's like, it's not worth it. Like, they were interest me to debt.

They were penaltying me me to debt. It was to the point where I would have had to crush it in a short amount of time to be able to catch up on that. So I ended up doing a chapter 13 bankruptcy where it stopped all the the interest rates and penalties and all that stuff, and I was able to pay it back without getting killed every month with all their penalties. Gotcha. So but I nobody else ended up in there.

Only uncle Sam. Yeah.

Steve: Who cares about uncle Sam?

Terry: Yeah. You gotta buy them. They're gonna get theirs anyhow and they did.

Steve: They did. They always will and they're getting more of it now.

Terry: They're getting more of it now.

Steve: So all right. So things slow down comes a screeching halt.

Terry: You were

Steve: in the middle of some renovations. Did you hurt on those renovations? So they were all done.

Terry: No. So you

Steve: were able to clean out on that side?

Terry: It was literally just the granite.

Steve: Okay. So then how was the transition? Because that was a different time. That's when I again, I that's when I first got in the business. When I first learned about wholesaling, I thought it was a fad, so I didn't learn about it.

Big mistake. So when did you like, what was your transition from that point?

Terry: So my transition mean from o eight? Yeah. So o eight, granite shop, all that. Shut that down in 2009. And then literally, I threw my tow belt back on, and I went and just was doing renovations for people all the way up till I learned about this private money thing.

And I'm like, alright. Game on.

Steve: Okay. So you were you were working, basically.

Terry: I was doing full house renovations, kit kids kitchens, bathrooms, like, that kind of stuff.

Steve: So you're like, hey, Terry. I need I need you to work over at this house. We need to work on this kitchen. Right. Okay.

And in 2012, you learned about capital other accessible capital.

Terry: Exactly.

Steve: And then you just, like, you just want 80?

Terry: Oh, I'd oh, I was like, okay. We're done here. If I had to deal with one more homeowner, I don't think I would have made it

Steve: Yeah.

Terry: This far. So, yeah, it was just I shut that shut that right off. Actually, I what I did is I made a deal with one of my friends Mhmm. That was a contractor, like, to do renovations. And I was like, look, I had probably close to a million dollars worth of contracts getting ready to start.

Because my average contract was, like, $202,150,000 for renovations. Wow. They were huge. I did one that was $850,000.

Steve: So I'm gonna do a quick tangent here because before we started, you and I were talking offline about sales. Yeah. Is that

Terry: Of course.

Steve: Okay. Come on. Hey. I I mean, those are big numbers. I don't hear those numbers typically on renovations.

Terry: Yeah. I it got to the point where I wouldn't even look at a deal unless they would I would have them send me pictures, and give me a quick description. Mhmm. And if it didn't if it didn't appear to be at least a 150,000, I would be I'm not

Steve: You're pre qualifying as people.

Terry: I was pre qualifying. Right. So, yeah, it was like 200 and up is is these deals that we're doing. And I had a buddy of mine. He was a contractor.

He did renovations. He had a renovation company. And I said, look. I said, I will give you all of these. I don't want a dime for them, but when you're finished, whatever the profits are, I want 20% of your profits.

Mhmm. So that's what I ended up working out. So I literally I was wrapping up some jobs, finished those, raised money, started, marketing, direct mail

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Was my first, things that I was doing back then. Direct mail, door knocking, all that, and talking to wholesalers. And, actually, the very first one I got when I went got back in was from a wholesaler.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. And then when you went back in because before you're buying a hold, buying a flip, what what was your what what were you doing right when you got back into it?

Terry: Straight up hustle and flipping as many properties as possible. Gotcha. We were doing a lot at one point.

Steve: What what does a lot mean?

Terry: Over a 100. Between new builds and flips, we were doing over a 100 a year. Okay. Like, we were cranking them out for a little while there. Right.

Yeah.

Steve: Okay. And then is that the same business model all the way through now? No. Okay. So what's the evolution of your business?

Terry: So evolution was I was doing everything was all in one company. Right? Then we we went from flipping, doing some new builds to I was like, forget about this flipping thing, only because I I I put paint on myself. Like, I couldn't just do a carpet and paint flip. Right?

It was a full gut. So I got to the point where every single house was so, it was it was so much detail, so much work that had to be done to it that it when I looked at numbers, I'm like, I could have tore this thing down and started it over, probably paid about the same amount of money We got it faster. But got got it done faster, less headaches, more calculated. I didn't have to be on on job, on-site all the time, and I could've got about 20% more for a new build versus a flip Oh. In the areas that I was doing it in.

So I was like, alright. This doesn't make sense. I'm done with flips. So I I went, like, three or four years without doing any flips whatsoever, and I I focused on downtown areas, regentrification. So Downtown Raleigh, Downtown Durham, and I was I had VAs that were just, like, scoping out the areas, getting all the addresses, phone numbers, and back then it was, like, one at a time.

There was no skip trace company where

Steve: you could just send in a list there.

Terry: Like, it was, you know, very manual. Mhmm. And then, you know, between me and a couple other people, we would just go door knocking, calling, whatever we could to get these deals. And that all that went all the way up until 2018. The beginning of 2018, I'm sitting there.

I'm like, I had 88 lots. 88 scattered all over Downtown Raleigh and Downtown Durham. The two downtown areas are getting to the point where they're it's growing so fast. Like, me alone was just doing so much in these two areas. They don't know how to deal with it.

So the UDO started changing all of a sudden. They were like so then they started treating these 100 year old neighborhoods like it was a brand new subdivision. So, like, okay. There's cracks in the curb, cracks in the in the, sidewalks, and I would have to replace all of it. I'm like, I don't even own that part.

That's your part. Mhmm. And so it was costing me $10.20000 more per house. So I'm like, forget about this. I'm not not doing this anymore.

I'm gonna take we're gonna separate it. So that's when I I changed the model, and I said, okay. All of my new builds are gonna be only in new new neighborhoods, new developments, and I'm gonna make sure that I just go in and buy lots, I pull houses on the ground. Mhmm. I don't have to tear it down, redevelop it, deal with the city, all this crap.

Did that. Then we separated the rehabs into another company, our rentals into another company. And then we're like, well, what do we wanna do with the market and acquisitions company? We would do like, we weren't wholesaling, but we would do twelve, fifteen wholesale deals a year because we're buying in these two areas. Right?

Well, if we were buying here and this guy has two houses in his neighborhood, but then he has two over here, we would just assign these two. Right? There's always a buyer for it. We'll we'll make money off of it. So we'd do twelve, fifteen properties a year that way.

And I was like I mean and and honestly, the ones that we would do, they were, like, average of, like, 60,000 and up, right, assignments, or we would take them down and double close them, whatever.

Steve: And I'm

Terry: like, that was we actually made a decent amount of money by accident Mhmm. Several times a year. So then we decided to break it off into its own company, OfferHut. So I see you've got Offer what is it? Offer OfferFast.

OfferFast. Right? Yeah. ForFast, we have OfferHut. And so we made that our own company.

We started scaling it, putting a team together. And, yeah. And then here we are today. So we did that in '18 and tripped and fell, tripped and fell trying to scale things, get the marketing right, the systems right. And, I mean, I was on the phones.

I was doing everything. We were going to appointments, and now we're fully virtual. I just got back a month two months ago from being in living in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico for five months Oh, that's awesome. While my team was cranking and breaking records. And, you know, so we've been I've been able to scale it by systems and processes and then ultimately people to be able to follow those.

Steve: You had to suffer in Mexico, though.

Terry: I had to suffer. It wasn't it wasn't easy. Like, the views were just like I mean, the whales jumping up in the air. It was so distracting.

Steve: So so new build, rehabs, rentals, and then wholesale. So what does your business look like today?

Terry: What that's what it so I have, one of my companies, we do we have, small affordable housing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: That's in our my rental company. So we we were we're buying we bought all this land to build, rent, and then, just continue to keep Build

Steve: a rent.

Terry: Just to keep them. Right? They're affordable housing, you know, in my area, so that's 200,000 roughly. And, what was it last year or the year before year before last, I decided, like, I don't want any of these rental properties anymore. I hate them.

I hate rental properties. I'm like, I can make money with less headaches in dealing with, you know, less nonsense in other ways. So we're we're we're doing it, we're investing in other maybe syndication deals, you know, different lending, things like that, and selling off all the rental properties. So we're down I think we're down to, like, 17.

Steve: So a lot of So

Terry: development deals, now we sell them instead of keeping them.

Steve: So a lot of people get into real estate initially story. Right? Yeah. A lot of us are in the first 10 chapters. You're over here like chapter 17, chapter 20.

You're saying you're not in love with owning rentals. Hate it. What What do you not love about owning rentals?

Terry: So I had a property manager have I still have a property manager. Mhmm. And it's not about like, I didn't have to deal with tenants, but just getting that call like, I can't remember what the number is. Like, 250, 300. Like, anything under 250, 300, they just take care of.

Right? Anything above that, I have to get a call. Right? Or if somebody, moves out, they let me know or, trashes a property. Whatever.

And I felt like when you even at 58 whatever we had, 50 something properties, even at that, I felt like every single week, I was just getting that, like, kick.

Steve: Mhmm. And

Terry: I'm like, these people, they're so incompetent. Just pay your bills. I mean, why do you destroy properties? Right? And it wasn't about the leaky toilets and all those little stories.

It was it's literally about the people, and I'm just like, I couldn't deal with it. Yeah. Like, there's it's a it doesn't it's not worth it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Like, I like my peace of mind, and there's other ways of making money. So that's why I'm investing in other things. And ecommerce is, has been a big thing for me as well.

Steve: Got it. So syndication, ecommerce. What what what are you looking at in ecommerce?

Terry: So, what started where I was, some friends of mine, they were like or I bought bought an Amazon store and where Amazon Automation. I'm not sure if you prefer that. Yeah. So Amazon Automation, and then they reached out to me like, hey. You got an audience.

You wanna do a webinar and do an affiliate? I was like, yeah. Sure. Put put some ninety minutes of my time. Right?

Steve: Right. So

Terry: I did it, sold a million dollars with the store. Did it another time, sold a million dollars with the stores, and they're paying me decent amount. So I'm making, you know, quarter million more in ninety minutes.

Steve: Yeah.

Terry: Well, what happened was what I didn't like about it is that now I'm I'm sending these stores to these people, and they're they're relying on, them to take care of it. And they're not doing they weren't doing a great job, and I was getting all the callbacks. And I'm just the affiliate guy.

Steve: You're the proper manager.

Terry: I'm the proper Yeah, so then I became Yes, I'm putting out fires all over the place. I'm like, Look, you know what? I could do this. I'm good at business. I've been doing this a long time.

So I reinvented the way I see all these guys that are doing it, and most of them are doing it. They're young. They're in their twenties. They just they're seeing all this money, and they're they don't know how to do it. They're buying McLarens and Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

Right?

Steve: What else can I do with it?

Terry: What else? Right? So I'm like, I want I wanna re reinvent this. So I put a pretty cool business model together.

Steve: I found a really good operator partner that knows that end, and we took it

Terry: in house. And so, operator partner that knows that end, and we took it in house. And so that's that's so we sell Amazon and Walmart stores.

Steve: Walmart stores.

Terry: Yeah. Walmart too. Wow. Third party. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So one thing that was fascinating to me, and and we talked about, you know, in in the beginning is that, you know, 6 figures but working five hours a week. So, you know, we talk about this business. A lot of this business sells a marketing business, but the marketing is not really that complicated.

No. Right? And the sales is a skill you can learn. Yep. Which apparently you and I both geek out

Terry: on. Right?

Steve: But then the next thing is the systems and the people. Yeah. That's how you buy more time back. What did you do to buy your time back?

Terry: Yeah. So first and foremost, like, when I've been doing real estate a long time. Right? When I saw this whole thing, I was, like, checking out all these people on Instagram. Like, who's crushing it?

You know? And you've got all the the guys that appear to be crushing it. So I didn't know who to trust. Right? So I found somebody, flew out, saw their operation.

I'm like, look, there's nothing you're gonna teach me in real estate. Nothing. But I wanna learn how to scale a wholesale and operation in six months or less. Not two, three years. I wanna know exactly the formula.

Hired him, and we just we just went crazy. And just Yeah. I I got those systems, and I put my experience with it. And then I have a hiring system that I put in place that allows me to hire people and I mean, it's literally it's it now with the system is so refined that it's like flipping on a switch and boom, I've got a great person working for me, literally.

Steve: So that sounds like a magic pill. So we're

Terry: That magic pill wasn't developed overnight.

Steve: Oh, no. I I definitely don't believe it was built overnight. So what were some of those systems, that you were able to incorporate into your business?

Terry: Yeah. So, obviously, having the right CRM to begin with, that allows for a follow-up system to track everything, track and k the right KPIs, like, knowing exactly what they are without having to build every single thing and figuring out what you need. So it was a lot of it was KPIs, tracking metric metrics, the CRM at first, a little bit of marketing tweaking tweaking, but then the next thing is, like, the SOPs, how to pay the people, who to identify what type of people to actually bring on. Right? And because it's like, okay.

I'm gonna hire an acquisition. You're gonna put an ad for an acquisition person. You're probably gonna get, what, ten, fifteen people to apply, and then they're not even probably gonna know what the hell they're applying

Steve: for it. Right. Well, now it says acquisition.

Terry: Right. Exactly. So there's like, I was trying to learn a few different things. So there's, those few things in place, it it really helped, move things along a lot faster.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So there's magic pill we were just talking about. What is this easy button hiring

Terry: thing? Yeah. So it's, I've developed it into a course, and I it's something I became obsessed with because having all the real estate business I mean, you know how it is. With contractors and project manager, there it's like the bottom of the barrel. Right?

You get a guy where his girlfriend's bringing him to work because he he's got a DUI, can't drive, doesn't I mean, you know how it is. Like, we that business is painful. Right? So it's you end up at the bottom, and you're higher and higher and higher and higher and higher. So I'm like, there's gotta be an easier way.

Like, somebody has to have the answer. Mhmm. So, again, I you know, I my first coach was in 2012. When I learned about private money and a few other things, I'm like, I'm hooked. Like, let's go.

You know? So I'm always I have I'm probably investing at least 6 figures every single year on different mentors, coaches, courses, whatever the case might be to to find the answers of how to do things faster.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Right? 45. Right? I don't have much time to figure things out. I wanna go.

Right? Regardless, I I wasted too much time doing it. So I would hire all these different coaches to find the answer. Nobody had the answer. I mean, it's crazy.

Like, I could not find the answer. So I got a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit here. So I was like, I've gotta figure this out. I put my head down and come I came up with a system. Honestly, I just, like, put it in a bowl and salt and pepper and stirred it up, and voila, this came.

Okay. You have to tweak it a little bit, tweak it a little bit, tweak it a little bit. And until I developed what I have.

Steve: What are the some of, like, the major components of it?

Terry: So going back to CRM. Mhmm. Right? So I'll give it in a nutshell. So there's, like, a CRM type of, system.

So I I'll I'll give you the quick overview on it. Otherwise, how much time do we have? I mean, we're two to solve all the rest of the afternoon. Rest of the afternoon. Right.

So, basically, I I use Indeed.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Okay. And there's a reason why I use Indeed, proven I've proved it time and time and again. I put an ad. I've got a way to do all that. Right?

There's a whole bunch on the front end setup before I even put the ad. Right? So then you put the ad, and then when somebody clicks to apply on Indeed, it does not go into my Indeed. I have a way that you can link another software Mhmm. CRM ish.

They take a test. It scores them, puts their resume every all their information into this platform. Right? So it's like Podio for hiring. Right?

And then in with a with a, a test. So it scores them. So if I really need somebody, I might go any score from 60 and above. Anything below, boom, gone. I don't think about it.

Right? So I have this so I have a list of three to 600 people Mhmm. Because that's about what I get in applicants every month, and I can cut it down to maybe 50. Right? Out of those 50, I can go click click click click click, click, click, boom.

Send them all one message that says, you know, send me a sixty second or less video, tell me a little bit. I have specific things in there. Okay? And this is something over the years I've tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked. And basically, I'm I'm looking to see if they're following instructions, if they're getting if they're procrastinators, because I have a time limit when you're supposed to get it.

Mhmm. Are they sending it to me at 04:59 when I'm asking at five, or they send it to me ten minutes after I send them the email. Right?

Steve: I'm sending it for $4.59.

Terry: Exactly. A lot of them are. Right? And then things like, it's sixty second or less. Right?

Steve: You'll be shocked how people can't get past forty seconds. Yeah. I'm like, how are you supposed to sell if you can't tell me the sixty seconds about yourself? Right.

Terry: Why you're why you're a good person for the position? So, or and then you got people that go on for three minutes. I'm like, I could just imagine this person in my office. They don't shut up. They just they never get

Steve: anything done. They're just they're just yapping

Terry: all the time. Right? So there's a lot of things right there that tells me. And then I I go through, I've got from there, I end up narrowing it down three to 500, three to 600 applicants, and I'll narrow it down to, like, three to five people. Those three to five people will do a phone interview, and that's very specific.

I don't care to know anything about them. I want them now to know more about my position Mhmm. Because I've weeded out so many people since I started doing this right from that phone call because it's like, oh, you know, we work these hours. Oh, I can't work these hours. Oh, it's a full time job?

No. It's part time. You know? It's it's said on the application. Right?

Or we don't offer benefits. Right? Just benefits. Right? Just different things like that.

You know? Like, oh, this isn't for me. Great. Thank you for not wasting an hour to two hours of my time in an interview. Right.

So I weed out some people that way. And then I also get to hear just a little bit because I'm asking a few questions here and there. Get to hear a little bit about their personality, how they are, you know, how they show up. And then I usually go so me, when I'm interviewing, I I only select one. Mhmm.

My sales manager does the the, hiring now for our team. He'll I always make him do at least three people. Bring three people in

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Because I want you because he doesn't have the experience, maybe at some point, to be able to that judgy character would be able to see over the phone. So I have him weed out the people in person. Yeah. So and then we have, a whole, like, HR software after that that makes things simplifies things.

Steve: Well, I love the system. I think one of the things that you know, a lot of business owners, they overcomplicate this. Right? Like, they're really good at finding sellers. They've got the systems.

They got the processes and all that. And then, like, you talk about hiring and they're like, they get overwhelmed. Mhmm. It's the same thing. It's sales and marketing.

Right. You market them. You go find them where they're at. Exactly. And then you sell them.

You have the system to sift it. Same thing with lending. Right? Like, if your goal is to get more money, just put on your sales and marketing hat. Yeah.

And you can go and find them and sell them. But people kinda look at it as like, oh, this is a whole different beast. It's

Terry: not. It's yeah. It's not. It's just same thing, just different people, different process, whatever.

Steve: But you go and I I I remember when I when I was first hiring. Right? Because when you don't know what you're doing, you're supposed to add on Craigslist.

Terry: Yeah.

Steve: And you get hundreds of resumes Yeah. And you're clicking each one. It's like, which one do I hire? So I love that you've got this I don't look at resumes. Sorting and just you've got you've easy buttoned the whole thing.

Terry: It it's funny when you say how people just get so stressed out about raising money. They don't, oh, raising money. Right? I don't know how to do it. I can't do it.

I I I have been trying to raise money. I'm like, okay. What'd you do? Have you talked about it? Have you told anybody?

Like, have you put it out there? Like, what's your marketing tactic? Oh, well, you know, I I talked to a couple, people at this RIA event. You know? Like, if you're not putting it out there, like, how does anybody gonna know that you're raising money?

Steve: Right. How do people know you're buying houses? Right. If you're not telling everyone Exactly. You're buying houses.

Terry: It's not magic pill. It's not not a secret.

Steve: So you mentioned that you're in Raleigh. Yeah. Is that where your base business is based, Raleigh and Durham? Yes. Okay.

So, how is your business different than everybody else over there?

Terry: Systems. Like, it's, completely virtual. We never leave, leave our office. The culture that we have is amazing. It's fun.

Like, they're like, it's family in our office. Right? So I think just having just systems I don't know anybody else in especially in my area. I know people outside of like, in this area. Guru capital of the world.

Right?

Steve: It is for sure the guru capital of the world.

Terry: It is. Right? So that that can not have to be there, not have to show up to have their business run. Like, I don't have to be there. Right?

Right. It's it's, sometimes it's fun to be there.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: It gives me energy to be there.

Steve: But it probably annoys them a little bit too.

Terry: It does. Right? Sometimes when I leave, like, the bell rings more. Right? They get more deals.

Right?

Steve: So they get to celebrate more. So that was for hiring acquisitions. What is your process then? Is it almost similar for hiring administrative people?

Terry: Every single it's exact same thing. It's just, just the different ad in the front of me. So the

Steve: and maybe this is because you're growing up, but one of the hardest challenges and I don't know why because I think I'm just naturally lazy, so I maybe over delegate. But a lot of people have a challenge delegating or maybe not even delegating, like inspecting what you're expecting, letting things go. How were you able how are you able to get to because I

Terry: love this question.

Steve: The because in construction side, I mean, you're probably working sixty, seventy hours a week.

Terry: Keep going. Alright. Like, a hundred, hundred 20 at one point. I went ten years without taking a vacation. Which is what you're supposed to do as an entrepreneur when you start.

Right? I mean, I grinded. Right? And I I I thought it was, like, you're weak if you take a day off. Right?

Steve: I used to have the same mindset. Yeah. So how did you get to the point where you're able to trust your people, able to let go? Because I think that's one of the hardest things as a business owner. You kinda have this idea.

It's like, no one can do this better than me. Right. Right. So how did you do that?

Terry: So remember I said I my first coach 2012?

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Well, 2014, was at my first mastermind. Mhmm. First mastermind, girl gets up. She's speaking, talking. She's like, oh, yeah.

My business is in Florida. I pretty much live in San Diego. My business fully runs, and I'm getting ready to go on this month long backpacking, bicycling trip up in the mountains of Northern California. And I'm not gonna be able to have service, and we're gonna be buying deals, selling deals, all this. I'm like, like, I'm stressed out of my mind for being there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

I'm like, my business is falling apart. It's burning to the ground. I'm gonna come back. It's gonna be nothing but ashes. So and I was a control freak.

Mhmm. Right? I had no systems. Zero.

Steve: I kinda suspected that might have been impossible. Oh, I

Terry: mean, I was a control freak. Totally. So I became obsessed. Like, I'm like, how is she she doing this? Like, how is that possible?

There's no way. So, obviously, I'm talking to her throughout the weekend. And I remember, one of the nights, I think it was Saturday night. So I got there Thursday night, started Friday, Saturday, and they left Sunday. Right?

So the whole thing I can think of, like, only thing I remember about that entire time was her speaking and me obsessing her. It's like two, three in the morning. I'm getting I'm up and I'm, like, walking around. My wife's in bed, and I slam my foot on something, you know, in the hotel room. It's completely dark.

And I'm like, I let out this yelp. She's like, what the hell are you doing? I said, I got it all figured out. I had 16 carpenters that worked with me, trucks, trailers, equipment, tools, everything. Right?

I said, I'm going back and I'm gonna fire everybody. I'm starting over. I said, I'm gonna figure this out. We're gonna I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but I I know the first part. We're gonna fire everybody, and we're gonna start outsourcing things and start building.

And I just for me, it was pain. Right? It was pain of why am I, why can't I enjoy four days of being with other entrepreneurs, learning, building on myself, or just even taking a vacation without stressing out of my mind? I mean, I remember the first couple vacations I took, like I slept through the whole thing.

Steve: You know what

Terry: I'm saying? You

Steve: don't vacation initially as a business owner.

Terry: No. I slept and or stressed about what was going on back home. So I was like, this is this is it. It is it's not normal to live like this. Mhmm.

There's other ways. I've seen it. She said so.

Steve: Mhmm. Right? Right.

Terry: And so I just became I turned my obsession instead of being obsessed of, being a control freak, I became obsessed with trying to figure out how to put systems and processes in place and then people to follow those so that I can actually live my life. And guess what? I make a whole lot more money

Steve: Right.

Terry: And I work a fraction of the time that I that I used to.

Steve: So you weren't even mentored. You were just inspired.

Terry: There. Yes. That was, like, no way. There's no way. That's not possible.

So you were inspired. Did you

Steve: get help along the way? Was anything you did specifically when you were hiring an ex batch of people? Any characteristics you were looking for?

Terry: There was, so the first six to nine months were not easy. Like, I literally fired my entire career. So I worked around the clock. Like, I can remember I had this one closing, and I literally worked till sunup to make sure it closed in the morning, and then stopped at the house for a minute, maybe changed clothes, brushed my teeth, went right back to work. Like, it was crazy those first several months because I was trying to finish houses, and I was trying to build systems, and I was trying to hire people.

So it was it was, it there was a lot of tripping and falling. And once I got a few people that can actually do a per small percentage, that's when I started hiring coaches and, like, got it. How can I get make this better? And nobody really could give me you know what? Looking back, I I I've thought about this before.

I don't know if they didn't give me the answer if I didn't have time to listen

Steve: Mhmm. Because

Terry: I was thinking about everything else.

Steve: You weren't ready to absorb it. Exactly. Yeah. It's a possibility. So I don't know if

Terry: I had the bandwidth in my brain to absorb anything else at the time.

Steve: So what we what we tell someone right now, right, that's listening to the show and they're like, man, I am killing myself doing one or two deals a month, but I'm working eighty hours a week. Yeah. What advice would you give to that guy?

Terry: Hire hire a coach, mentor for one first. Like, stop trying to you're obviously doing something wrong.

Steve: There's a better way. Right? We've seen it. We witnessed it.

Terry: They've seen it. Witnessed it. Done it. Yeah. Exactly.

There's a better way. Mhmm. And, just like I did when I with the wholesale. When I decided to break off the market acquisition side of my business that fed me my own deals, I'm like, what do I wanna do with this? And I went to a mentor, someone that's crushing it in this market, still is.

And I was like, look. You're not gonna gonna teach me anything about real estate, and they know that. I'm like, I could teach you because I've probably been doing doing this, like, ten years before you, fifteen years before you, but show me the the how to do this piece of it. Right? And, like, don't have any shame.

Like, just go out, get help, and, especially if you're doing a couple of deals, you can afford it. Right? Right. So and it's like people are like, oh, I can't that's another thing. I can't afford to hire a coach.

You can't afford not to hire a coach. How much money I lost? Right. Can you imagine if I had this if I had my business running in this direction ten years ago, fifteen years ago from the get go?

Steve: That that's an important mindset that a lot of people have a hard time understanding, though. Right? I can't afford a coach. Like, you can't afford not to have a coach. Yeah.

It's easier to say it's easier to say. Right? You can't afford not to hire a coach because we have the wisdom, and we've suffered the pains. Right. They might not have suffered enough pain yet to understand the wisdom behind it.

Right. So before the show, we were geeking out on sales. We're talking about that. And you were talking about how you are actively working with your sales team. Yeah.

And I love that. Can we talk about that? Because I think that's a topic that's not discussed enough. A, the importance of sales training, but b, what does sales training look like as a business owner?

Terry: Sure. So if I first start with this, like, when I just started looking at business like sports

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Is when it changed for me. Okay? So I'm like, again, coaches. Right? Not a Ford or whatever.

It doesn't matter. Maybe maybe the New England Patriots at the time they hired Bill Belichick couldn't afford Bill Belichick. I don't know. I'm just throwing something out that's simple that a lot of people know. Right?

Mhmm. They couldn't afford that guy, but we'll look what that guy has done for for that team. What teams don't have a coach? All of them do. Can you imagine

Steve: any no champion teams without a great

Terry: coach. Right. Right. So I'm like, okay. If I wanna make my speaking the word champion, if I wanna get my team to the championship

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Every single year, I need to be the best coach possible.

Steve: Right.

Terry: And what else teams do? Do they just play games or do they practice? So we practice. Right? So we start off our day every single day, the first hour of the day, and we just do nothing but train, train, train, sales training, everything.

Not just sales training, understanding the economics of the business. There was a book I read called, The Great Game Game of Business.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: And I liked how he talked about how things change dramatically in his business by showing the economics and and laying it out there so everybody could see what part they're involved with instead of just hiding it because, oh, they can't know what we make. Uh-huh. It's, I think that's important and then showing the metrics, showing the KPIs and then giving them something, a scoreboard to go after. So when we started making those changes is when things really started to make a big difference.

Steve: Got

Terry: it. But at the same time so we we train every single every single day, first hour of the day, minimum. Right? We do real breakout things in the middle of the day.

Steve: Say that again louder. Every morning for one hour.

Terry: Every morning for one hour. That's my five hours a week. That's huge. Yeah. So and then what we started doing, like I told you, that used to be just me sitting there training.

And I'm sure that I'm sitting there looking at all them. Right? And I'm like, they gotta be sick of hearing me. They gotta hear a different perspective. So now it's like me, I train, my business partner trains, and then we have our team come to to the table with trainings.

So we rotate them out so that we can hear different voices, different perspectives. We can see how they see things, so we can help correct them and tweak it. We do a role playing day, where I told you we we take the controller in a conference room, we spin it, and the first person's out, second person's out. Third person, they're they have to come up with a top topic, and the fourth person has to be the role player with them. So I think it's really important to to practice, to train, to be the best coach you can of your business.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: And as quickly as possible, if you don't have employees, start putting those processes and systems together so that you can start putting people in place because otherwise, you'll never grow your business.

Steve: Right.

Terry: You only it's like trading dollars for hours. Right? You may have created a very, nice cush job, you know, where you're making decent money, but it's I'm telling you. It's like and you know, I'm not telling you. I'm telling you.

Like, there's so many people that just don't see how much more money they can make and where where how the sky's the limit once you start doing that.

Steve: Especially when we're making it together. Yeah. Yeah. So you have this retreat thing.

Terry: Yeah. What is that? Tab. So Tab stands for the absolute best. We do it, we have one big one every single year in September.

Let's see. This next one is in Cancun. We weren't able to do it last year. We did one small one in in July. We were able to sneak that one in.

So I usually do a small one and a big one. We're doing a small one for where it's more like mastermind, higher end, 40 plus deals a year, in next month. And then September, we do, the big one. So it'll be several 100 people. We're doing this one in Cancun, all inclusive resort.

So they pay, they pay for their flights, they come, and everything else is taken care of. So it's we we have speakers. It's not oh, it's a week long, but it's not a week long, like, in an event like you would think.

Steve: It's Right.

Terry: Four days, four hours each one of those days, and then they have, like, if you were one of the speakers. Right? So 10 people can sign up to have lunch with you in a day and sit with you at lunch and just, like, pick your brain and really get close with you. And then after lunch, like, we have, like, free time and do whatever we want. But most of the time, people are in the pool, swim up bar.

And what do they do? Like minded individuals. They talk shop. Mhmm. Right?

So what's cool about it is that this is, this last year was supposed to be the fifth one, so this was supposed to be a sixth one. Got accelerated because of COVID. Yeah. So, what what it's done is I've I've became friends with people all over the country. I have lifelines all all across the country, different perspectives, all across the country.

So it just, if I wanna go into different markets, I have people I can reach out to

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: And we can talk about it. So it's, like, it's been cool how to expand your network and everybody. Like, there's people that have come to my events, and they become best friends with somebody across the country.

Steve: That's awesome.

Terry: Over it. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I love networking. And that that part you're talking about, like, talking shop. For me, going to every event, like, it's cool to learn from stage. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with stage.

Like, there's always good stuff to learn from stage. Right. But the funniest thing is talking shop. Yeah. Right?

Comparing notes.

Terry: Exactly.

Steve: Building networks, building relationships. And I think Carlos does a pretty good job of marketing your thing.

Terry: Of what? Your events. Marketing my events. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. He does a really good job of marketing.

Terry: He came in 2019 and spoke and he says that I was with him yesterday. He said, he said that was the best event I've ever been to in my life. He goes, I love it. He's actually gonna be at the one in, March next month next month.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. Guys, please, if you have any questions, fire away. So, you acquired a bunch of rentals, right, before the last recession. Did you hold on to all of them?

What did you do with those?

Terry: No. I all all of those are gone.

Steve: All those are gone? Yeah.

Terry: We got rid of all of them.

Steve: Okay. So you've gone through one of those. What are you doing to prepare for the next one?

Terry: The next, oh, right next crash? So right now, remember when I said I had 88? Mhmm. And, and, when was that, like, March, April, May '18? Mhmm.

I said I wasn't buying anymore. Come on. So I've acquired a few more. We're trying to get rid of, all of that debt. What we what what I've done is, I'm trying to get rid of all of my my new builds, take it down to just a handful at a time just to limit exposure, number one.

Number two, on the flip side, we're not doing full guts. My we have a very strict criteria on the things that we take down the flip. Like, we're in and out from the time we close on it to own it to the time it's back on the market, not contract, but my on the market, it's typically four weeks. Right? So we're in and out of them.

Yeah.

Steve: So we're we're the quickest we've gotten out of one is sixty two days, and that was like a that was a full

Terry: quickest we've gotten out of one is sixty two days, and it was like a it was a full renovation. I mean, it was carpet paint, cabinets, countertops, lights. You know what I mean? It wasn't just, like, literally slap a coat of paint on and go. Like, it was a full every room was touched.

Right? We just didn't move walls and stuff. Didn't do anything major. But sixty two days is the quickest we've gotten one done and brought in, like, 50,000 in profit. I don't go see them.

I don't ever go to like, I have very strict criteria.

Steve: Right.

Terry: Like, if I have to touch it, we're not doing it. Right? If I have to go there, we're not doing it. Right?

Steve: Great rule.

Terry: So I try to do quicker deals that are typically I can be in and out of them in sixty to ninety sixty to a hundred days, I say. Yeah. And as long as we can make two and a half times what we would have made on an assignment, well, that's part of our requirements.

Steve: Awesome. And I love that you've quantified it two and a half times.

Terry: Yeah. I mean, so basically, to full circle answer the question, I'm trying to limit as much exposure as possible. Yeah. The signing contracts is just marketing and sending out transactional. Right?

Flips, as long as I'm not doing big ones that are gonna be nine months and if something happens, then I'm I'm you know, things could change drastically in nine months.

Steve: Yes. They can.

Terry: Three, four months, that's not as bad. You can always dump it. Exactly. Exactly.

Steve: So Abby Jai wants to know, for someone starting new and trying to do this as a side hustle, do you still recommend to have systems in place?

Terry: Systems in place? Mhmm. Absolutely. And even more. Right?

Because you have very limited time. Mhmm. Right? So, yes. Yes.

You have to have, and it's the two things that that person needs is systems and grind, like hustle. Right?

Steve: Right.

Terry: Because you wanna get out of that J O B as fast as possible. How can you replace that income as fast as possible? At the same time, you know, some people get too comfortable with that whole situation. And I've had many mentees of mine. Right?

They're like, oh, when do I get rid of the job? Like, you did a couple flips. Right? You got, like, $40 in your account. You know, you're you're got enough for marketing.

Like, now

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Do you not trust in yourself? Because if you can make $40 on top of what you're doing in over a couple of months, like, what can you accomplish not having that job? Right. Right? Maybe it's a $140, $240 a month.

Mhmm. You know? So it's about I think a lot of it is people just need to trust themselves.

Steve: Yeah. Have more faith. Yeah. And then Kenny wants to know, what's your best advice for a new person?

Terry: Grind. That's all it is. It's like, to me, it's just hustle, grind, and do whatever you can, whenever you can, however you can, especially because, I mean, I'm sure most most new people don't have the money.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Otherwise, I'd say go hire

Steve: a coach. Right? But it's typically they have

Terry: to create capital. Right? So it's door knocking in just walking neighborhoods, driving for dollars, like Craigslist, for sale by owner, like, every single possible resource you can to get out there and just as much as you can. I mean, it's just to me, it's grind.

Steve: Yeah.

Terry: And and the little bit of information that you can get well, I say a little bit. A lot of bit of information that you can get from YouTube.

Steve: Right. Yeah. The if you don't have money, then you gotta put in the time.

Terry: Yeah. And it's either money or

Steve: And it's not, like, forty hours of time.

Terry: It's you

Steve: gotta be doing this eat, sleep, breathe all of this. We

Terry: Sleep secondary. Optional.

Steve: What is your

Terry: why? My why is as I get older, it changes. Right? So my why is I wish this was my why much earlier. Right?

I want to I want to do I wanna make more money, but I wanna do less doing it. Mhmm. Right? So that I can travel. I can be with my kids, be with my family, be with my wife, and and just like, I just that's that's my first thing.

Right? And everybody it's so it's so cliche. Yeah. I have more time with my kids and stuff, but it's it's freaking true. Especially, like, my daughter's gonna

Steve: be 17 in two weeks or one week, The tenth a week?

Terry: Like, it's disgusting. My daughter's gonna be 17. My son's 10. My oldest is 23, gonna be 24. And, like, you know, I missed out on that time.

Right? So it's I want to be able to enjoy life. I wanna be able to see things, but then most importantly, I, I support a organization called International Network of Hearts. It's like kids that got caught up in sex trafficking and rehabilitation, center, for them. So one of one big thing that as I create more time for myself and more income is I wanna set up a business that generates and feeds that organization.

Steve: Yeah. You know

Terry: what I mean? Some type of business that a 100% of it goes to, of the profits go to to feed that business or that operation.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. And then what is your biggest struggle right now?

Terry: My biggest struggle right now, if people a lot of people were to see my operation would say it's not a struggle. But to me, when I look at it, I run my business off KPIs metrics. Right? And I'm like, we could be getting more deals. So how do I convince my team to close more deals?

Right? I, so it's it's it's con conviction. Right? Getting them convinced me where I was talking to you. I was like, I I I've been thinking about bringing in a third party sales trainer Mhmm.

To give a different perspective on things to help close more deals. So I think that, in the wholesale industry is being able to close more deals with what we have. Right. Not by just being more yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Because I know I mean, we've got over 6,000 leads in our in our database, in our in our Podio, and it's like, I know if I got on the phone, I'd be able to close a whole lot more. Mhmm. Why can't can't you? Right.

Right? So that I think that's my biggest struggle. It's, like, trying to figure out as much training as we do, as much this, as much that. How do we close more deals?

Steve: Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. So one thing is I've been asking this question more, and it's harder, I think, for some people on on on that come in here. But, you know, when you get demotivated, how do you get back to motivated?

Terry: I get back to your why. Right? Like, what's what's gonna get you what's for for me, I have a I don't have a hard time, being motivated for me. When people say they they lose motivation, I almost wonder if you should if you should be an entrepreneur. Are you an entrepreneur if you don't have motivation to do what you want to do?

Mhmm. Like, for for me, it's like getting back in my office, getting back in the grind. Like, I'm like, the the opportunity Alright. Motivates me. Right?

How much how much is out there? Figuring out how to do something different. That's probably you know what? Now that I say this out loud, making changes, switching things up, and bringing in different opportunities to create new excitement. Mhmm.

I think for me, that's probably the biggest thing that re energizes me.

Steve: Yeah. I think for me, like, it's I'm always motivated, but I'll hear something. I'll get even more motivated. So, then this brings back to another question because this is something that all of us business owners do, especially when we go to seminars or coaching or whatever events. You get fired up.

Mhmm. Like, that guy is doing this, this, and this. Right? We need to execute. Like, I heard 10 great ideas this weekend.

Let's execute all 10.

Terry: No. Take one.

Steve: So have you done that? Oh, yeah. Of course.

Terry: Of course. Like, I'll I'll go back. Every time I go to events as if I come back, my team's like, oh, no. Like, they know. Like, they're scared when I walk in the door.

They know

Steve: I'm at

Terry: the throat.

Steve: Was it the the spousal abuse? This is just the what is it? Badder spouse syndrome.

Terry: Badder yeah. Right? They're like Exactly.

Steve: Jerry, what did you learn? Right.

Terry: What have you learned? Exactly. Because they know it's about to come at all angles. So, I try to to now decompress Mhmm. Look, re review, take one thing at a time, and let's implement it.

Let's get that thing going. Because it's like, when you do everything, you get nothing done. Right. Right? So it's and then you and then you get frustrated.

And your team hates you. Yeah. Exactly. So, yeah, then everybody's pissed off. And so, yeah, just kinda, like, let's list this out in importance.

Where where should we start? Or if you have decent team, you can assign certain things to certain people.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. For me, my my strategy has always been to not always is now. Take all the ideas, pick the top three Yep. Throw away the rest.

Terry: Right. Right. Right.

Steve: And let's start with the top one one that's most impactful, and then we'll look at number two.

Terry: Right. Exactly.

Steve: What is your superpower?

Terry: Sales. Like, it's sales is in not only that, like, negotiations. I I mean, it just fires me

Steve: up. You're excited for it.

Terry: It's super if I can do that all day long Yeah. I mean, it's the ecommerce. Right? When I do these presentations, and then I'll get on the phone, and, like, that just fires me up. I just I absolutely love selling.

Steve: Did that start even when you were working for your dad?

Terry: Always. That was just always What were

Steve: you selling when you were working for your dad?

Terry: Jobs. Like, when I was working my dad, he did, it was siding. Mhmm. Right? So I would go and close deals.

Steve: So you would door knock and sell siding?

Terry: Well, it was appointment set up. Right? So I would sell siding. I would sell, subcontractors to come work for us. How old

Steve: were you?

Terry: 19, 18, 19, 20. You know, I was I was young. I was like, it just everything's sales.

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Like, I sell my kids to do their homework.

Steve: Alright.

Terry: Right? Everything is sales. So it's like, how can you, convince anybody to do what you need to be what you're trying to accomplish? It's manipulation. But you know what?

It's not manipulation is not always bad. Mhmm. Right? So What were you doing

Steve: before you were working for your dad? Right? Because, like, every entrepreneur was trying to sell something when they were kids. Oh, god. Some people sold rocks.

I I sold candy.

Terry: Yeah. Everything. Pencils, candy, bicycles. I used to buy bicycles. Were you flipping bicycles?

Yeah. I was flipping bicycles. We'd buy them, we'd get a can of spray paint, spray paint them, like, put a new chain on there, oil it up, make it look nice, some new handlebar grips and out the door, you know.

Steve: Man, you're the first person I've heard say flip bicycles. We had Ryan flipping couches, but flipping bicycles.

Terry: Yep. Yep.

Steve: Yep. That's amazing.

Terry: I I remember I had the the biggest paper route in the whole area. Right? Yeah. I just kept, like, adding more, adding more, adding more. I have these people on on this they're probably like, paper route.

What do you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So I would I would my bike, and they would deliver all the papers. I go back to my house, fill it back up and just

Steve: Hustler from day one.

Terry: Yeah.

Steve: So David, Davila wants to know, what's your favorite marketing channel?

Terry: My favorite is PPC. I was looking at numbers actually just before I left with my business partner, and something I didn't realize until I looked at you know, there's so many metrics and KPIs, so many ways that you can look at this whole thing. And we know that we get our most of our leads control going. Okay? But we get our most quality leads that we can close faster from PPC.

We can do one call closes sometimes. Right? PPC and SEO because we've worked our SEO quite a bit now. But our average assignment on cold call was 17. Our average assignment on PPC was $2,710,000 dollars more.

Steve: Right.

Terry: So I mean, I love PPC and, you know, one of the things that I'm really starting to notice with a lot of these entrepreneurs that I coach is real estate entrepreneurs. When if they're one man show, I would always be like, oh, get VA's all this. And and I'm not sure if that's really the best answer because they're trying to do all this stuff. They just need more more leads, quality leads that they can close so they can work on their sales skills. Mhmm.

So I honestly I'm starting to switch it to say, hey. Let's start with PPC

Steve: Yeah.

Terry: And work on that because you're gonna get instead of getting, you know, however many VAs you have, ten, fifteen fifteen leads a day, you might be able to get one, two, three

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: Leads with the more quality leads that you can handle.

Steve: That's how I started, was PPC.

Terry: Really?

Steve: Right? As a one man show, and you're just calling these leads. It's like, it's up to you. It's you against the seller on the phone getting in the living room. That's it.

There's no there's no VAs. We're not managing anybody. Exactly. Right? It's just up to me to be in the CRM to make the cold calls.

Terry: Yep.

Steve: It's all all it came down to.

Terry: Yeah. I I didn't start PPC until about two and a half, three years ago, maybe. Yeah. That was the first PPC.

Steve: So you be and I I'll tell you. I started PPC back in 2011.

Terry: Did you? So it was Oh, nice.

Steve: $2 a click Oh, wow. $12 a lead.

Terry: Oh my goodness.

Steve: And I completely blew it. I was I was a crappy salesperson then. Blew it. You should

Terry: have had a $100,000 dollar a month budget and been doing it virtually everywhere.

Steve: I should have been I should have made a million dollars a month Exactly. Back then. But you didn't, you know, you didn't know what you didn't know.

Terry: Exactly. What

Steve: is the greatest lesson that you have learned?

Terry: Greatest lesson I've learned is, I would say two things, is hiring coaches. Right? I mean, I think that stop trying to figure it out yourself.

Steve: Mhmm. Right?

Terry: Because I realized when you look back how much money and time that actually cost you. Right. We can get more money. We can get more of a lot of things. We can't get more time.

Mhmm. Right? And when you learn that lesson that you can't get more time, you start looking at everything different. Right? And then the other thing is really a regret or something, a lesson that I didn't start doing earlier is is, running metrics, KPIs Mhmm.

On your business and running your business out of that. Right?

Steve: Right.

Terry: I don't run it off of, like, oh, yeah. I you know what? This guy over here, it sounds like he hasn't ring the bell or gotten a deal on you know, what's my metrics say? Mhmm. You know?

Then I'll you can dissect it and figure out what is going on.

Steve: Right. Versus a

Terry: marketing problem. Is it this? Yeah. Instead of thinking it and and, like, just have it's math. Right?

So as long as you can have all your metrics, all your numbers laid out, then you can actually run a business effectively, efficiently, more strategic, quicker, the whole nine.

Steve: Yeah. And I think just to to emphasize again for everyone that's listening is that once you start looking as money as a tool, right, money like, currency is important. Right? Like, we need it, but it's a tool to buy more time.

Terry: Right.

Steve: Right? To do more things. And I think that's something that people when you're newer, you need every dollar. But once you're, you know, once you have some track record, once you have your mindset change, there's no limit to what you can accomplish Right. When you have money as a tool.

Terry: Exactly. Huge mindset shift.

Steve: Yeah. It takes a while. Is there a book, that you've gifted more than any other?

Terry: So probably the one book that I read the most ever

Steve: Mhmm.

Terry: I've read it five or six times now is Traction. Mhmm. I think that book has made a huge difference. I'm constantly picking up new things. I love Grant Cardone's books.

You know, some people can't stand them. I I love, like, that just hard hardcordeness. Yeah. My favorite my you know, it's like, what was your favorite book you read? It's always one of the last books I've read, right, until you get to the next one.

But I actually read a couple kinda crappy waste of time books lately. The last best one that I read was a Great Game of Business. Mhmm. I love that book. My favorite book that is not business related was, Own Your Own Your Day, Own Your Life by is it Harvey Marcus, maybe?

Steve: I'm not sure about that one

Terry: or something. Yeah. I think it

Steve: was I've heard great things about it.

Terry: Yeah. Own Your Day, Own Your Life. Books like this big. But that book, I read that a couple years ago. That was a great book.

Steve: That's like Principles. Man, that that book took me over two months to finish.

Terry: What's a great game great game of No.

Steve: No. Principles. I read all of it.

Terry: Principles. Sorry. I thought I didn't get you. Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Steve: That took forever to get through. Yeah. And it was amazing.

Terry: Yep. But

Steve: it took so long to get through. I read that book too a while ago. David wants to know, can you share your PPC guy slash company?

Terry: Yeah. I use, Carlos' guy. Magnus? Yeah. Magnus.

Yeah. Magnus. You're right. Magnus. Yeah.

I couldn't think of it. I'm glad I Dave, I couldn't think of that company. Magnus. Yep. That was a Magnus digital or something.

Yep. Yeah.

Steve: And then, I'm gonna butcher this name here, but Eman wants to know how many employees do you have?

Terry: So there's 11 people in my office. Mhmm. I have many virtual assistants in The Philippines, especially now that we've got the econ business going on. I mean, we'll probably have, 200 by the end of the year just in that business. But, then my education business, I have virtual people all over the country and world.

Got somebody in Ireland. So, in my office, there's 11 of us.

Steve: Okay. And what does does each person do of those 11?

Terry: So I have, acquisitions. Oh, no. I have 10 now. I just hold on. Let me count them.

Steve: I think 10 because I can't remember if the

Terry: eleven's before or after I get rid of somebody. I have three acquisitions, dispositions. I have admin. I have,

Steve: what do

Terry: you call it? Transaction coordinator? Yeah. Transaction coordinator. We've got, staff accountant.

I've got, I cannot think of her role. It's a purchasing manager. Purchasing manager for all of our builds and stuff.

Steve: Gotcha.

Terry: I have a project manager who's not really in the office, but he he comes to an office, and then CFO. Awesome. I don't know where that count was. I lost it.

Steve: That's alright. 11. I think that was 10. Not including you. Alright.

So I want you to think about a last slide you wanna leave the listeners with. Guys, if you got value today, today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. That would really help me. It would give this past deposit social signals, right, to all the networks so that we can help more people. And next week, we do have Chris Crone coming.

So check us out next week. He's gonna be talking about syndication. And then we do have our workshop coming up. If you guys are interested in two weeks, it's disruptors.com/workshop. If you guys are interested, go there to apply.

So how well, before we get the last thoughts, how can someone reach you?

Terry: On social, Terry Thayer II. So II is I'm the second. So Got it. That's what II comes in. People are like, what is this II?

What did I say? Yes. It's Terry Thayer II, terrythayerii.com, tabretreat.com. But, yeah, social, Instagram, Facebook, terry there I I.

Steve: Cool. What is the last thought you wanna leave the listeners with?

Terry: I if I do you have I I've said it five times already. Right? 10 times maybe. And I'll say it over and over and over is don't try to do this on your own. Just understand the value of time.

I don't care if you're nineteen, twenty two, thirteen, forty five. Right? You that's the only thing you can't buy. Right? So you can buy it in the form of coaches, mentors, what do you call it, courses

Steve: Right.

Terry: All that stuff. So that and then getting around like minded people that are gonna help because there's I've talked to so many people. They're like, I'm by myself. I was just at an event in, in in San Diego last week, and it was, there was there was a couple of people in there. They're like, I'm by myself.

I don't have any kind of help for my family mentally help, you know, not like physical help in a business, but like Support? Support. Yeah. Support. So just getting around like minded individuals and get rid of all the garbage noise and nonsense that doesn't belong in your life.

Steve: Yeah. And it's so so critical. The you can't buy your time back. That's gone. There's nothing you could do about that.

But moving forward, you can really compress the time. Yes. And that is priceless. I mean, would you be willing to pay you'd probably be willing to pay ten, twenty times more. Would you pay for time for it if you can get some of that time back?

Right? Heck, yeah. So, alright. So, guys oh, real quick. I forgot.

Active Listening two point o. So check out the book. It's in the Amazon. It's about how this how to be a better listener, which leads to more sales. Thank you, Terry.

This was awesome. I had a lot of fun.

Terry: Thanks for having me.

Steve: Thank you, Terry. For watching. That was a lot

Terry: of fun.