$2 Million in Wholesaling Fees? Matthew Simmons Shares How He Earned $2M in His First 2 Years of Wholesaling

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of real estate disruptors. Today we have Matthew Simmons from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and he's gonna share how he was able to bring in $2,000,000 in wholesaling fees in his first two years wholesaling. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, founder of the Offer Fast Homes app, the only MLS for off market wholesale properties. And I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires.

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You ready?

Matthew Simmons: I'm ready. Let's do it.

Steve: That was a little longer than it usually is. Hopefully, everyone is still still with us. So what got you into real estate?

Matthew: Wow. So I got a little later start than most, I think, especially the folks I see on the show. But, I, I've been an entrepreneur my whole life. Started, in the health club industry, owned a gym for

Steve: sixteen years. Couldn't tell.

Matthew: Yeah. Not like I used to. In Pittsburgh. Sold that in 2017. A couple years before I sold that, I started another company called Keystone Bath.

In Pittsburgh, we specialized in, like, one day bath remodeling for seniors, walk in tubs, walk in showers, all that stuff.

Steve: That's incredible. One day.

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. One day installs. And there's a huge, demographic of older folks in Pittsburgh. So that business did really well.

I got an offer to sell that even though I wasn't actively looking to sell. And so I found myself in December 2017. Again, without a job, talking to my wife. What are we gonna do? What's my next move?

And I watched a YouTube video for Max Maxwell and decided this looks cool. This kinda fits my my skill set. It's sales. It's real estate, which I'm interested in. I then watched a Bigger Pockets podcast with a guy named Lance Wakefield Mhmm.

Who's a wholesaler out of Dallas, Texas. I tracked him down. At the time, he was doing $3,400,000 a month, and I said I wanna learn how to do this. He was nice enough to kinda show me the ropes. So in January, we sent out January 2018, I sent out 5,000 postcards, no deals.

February, 5,000 postcards, no deals. Cold calling, probates, knocking on doors, nothing. Nothing. And then it was March 2018. Nine deals, 111,000.

Steve: Wait. So goose egg goose egg nine.

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. Now keep in mind, some of those deals in March were from marketing efforts in January and February.

Steve: Of course.

Matthew: But nine deals, a 100 and 11,000. So it was at that point, obviously, huge proof of concept.

Steve: First month, six figures. Yes. That's incredible.

Matthew: Yeah. It was huge. So my wife and I kinda looked at each other like, okay. This this is something that could work. And then from there on out, it's been full steam ahead.

We haven't had a month below a 100 since then before COVID.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: I don't know how much you know about what's going on in Pennsylvania, but we were completely shut down.

Steve: Everyone wants to crucify the governor. Yeah. Pretty much.

Matthew: Yeah. Not much has changed. We were completely shut down. Real estate is nonessential. Yeah.

Somehow, some other questionable things were, and we weren't. But nonetheless, roll with the punches. That was our first month below, since we got started. But actually, this month, we've since rebound. This will be our best month to make up for that.

Steve: Okay. Well, that's good. So let's take a step back here. So you were in the fitness industry. You said you sold?

Matthew: Sold the gym.

Steve: Okay. So, I when did you start that fitness gym?

Matthew: 2001.

Steve: 2001. Oh, so you were doing it for a very long time.

Matthew: Yeah.

Steve: So when I first got into this information marketing component, right, like, people don't know. I tried a coaching business, like, 2014.

Matthew: Oh, okay.

Steve: And fitness was one of those industries was which was like a model for information marketing.

Matthew: Oh, okay.

Steve: Right? Because, you know, you get the the recurring revenue.

Matthew: Yeah.

Steve: You can have a lot of people paying that aren't even using your gym. Right. And they won't quit because if they cancel, then they're quitting on themselves. Exactly right. Right?

So there's a lot of, great lessons in marketing for starting your gym. Sure. Did you partake in any of that? Did you take any of those lessons to help you, like, basically take off with your real estate business?

Matthew: No. I I wish I could sit here and say yes. No. The gym was more of a I lifted weights. I tanned.

I was a d bag and just kinda hung out all day. I wish I took it more serious. We were successful despite me, but we did well. And it was a good good learning period for me. I learned a lot of what not to do.

Luckily for me, what happened for me was this, January 2017. I had already sold the gym, done well with that exit, and I was looking I was getting an offer on The Bath Company. I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, sounds corny, but it's the real life. I was washing my vehicle, and I read I listened to that, And something just kinda sparked in me. I realized that despite the outside image of success and and being an entrepreneur and having these things, I wasn't really proud of the way I had run these companies.

And so I completely rebooted. It was in January 2017. I started my journey on working on myself. I quickly learned that my level of success was not going to exceed my level of self improvement. And so I started down this journey.

I hadn't read a book since college. And I've I had that

Steve: problem too. I I knew everything when I graduated college.

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing how much you know. And so for me, I really decided I'm gonna read a book a week. And that journey started for me in January 2017.

I haven't looked back. Often weeks where two books go in, and it's just it completely changed my life. I sent so so people have this impression about me that I took off very quickly. And, of course, as far as the logistics of actually wholesaling, that started in January 2018. But there was twelve months leading up to that where I literally brainwashed myself.

My wife would watch me. I'd be cutting the grass, listening to Secrets of a Millionaire Mind by T. Harv Eker, pointing to my head saying, I have a millionaire mind, putting my hand over my heart, and repeating these mantras. And over the course of twelve months, I completely changed my thought process, and everything about me just changed. I started getting up earlier.

I started performing better, and I just became a better man. And so

Steve: When you had the gym, none of this was happening. No. So like you were saying Party time. It it succeeded despite you.

Matthew: It did.

Steve: But you still had your one day bathroom remodeling company. Right. So did you see that company just take off because of it?

Matthew: It did. And that's where I went out and sought out, some contracts with the state. And so what happens is these folks go into nursing homes, and they go into facilities, and it's a lot cheaper for the state to send them home. But their home needs to be able to support them. And so if they have a traditional tub or shower, oftentimes, they can't get in and out.

And that's where most of the falls occur. So I created a relationship with the state whereby they would hire my company to go in and renovate the space and get the the grab bars up and the walk in tub in and the lower toilet or or the higher toilet and the all the things that need to go in to make it ADA compliant before the person came home. Mhmm. So by getting those contracts with the state, literally every morning we would wake up and get a fax of jobs, a fax in 2018 from the state, imagine that, of jobs that needed to be completed that week. So my marketing essentially was zero, and we were getting more jobs than we could possibly do.

Because of relationships, though. Exactly right. And that's what made that company a saleable asset, was that recurring revenue, similar to the gym where you have these people paying every month? I had proven receivables coming, and that's why I was able to sell that business.

Steve: Well, I think that's a good point, though. You know, we we hear it all the time. You know, relationships squad up. Right? Right.

And I think that people may not understand how powerful that statement is, because you got your recurring business by facts, but it's because of who you knew.

Matthew: Right.

Steve: Right? Who you knew and what you're able to do for that person. Make make them look good for their boss, make their lives easier, whatever it is. But one question, you know, a lot of us when we're newer is, like, how do I do this? How do I get leads?

How do I do whatever? And the question really should be, how do I do this? It's really, like, who do I know that can help me? Sure. Right?

Either who do I know that can mentor me or who do I know that I can hire? Whatever. But the who question is really the most important question that everybody overlooks. Right.

Matthew: Yeah. And I I found that person in Lance. You know, he was on a podcast. Anybody could have could have reached out to that guy. Yeah.

And I harassed him until he agreed to get on a phone call with me and tell me what he knew. And to his credit, he was a go giver, and he taught me a lot. And he really got me off on the right foot. So during those twelve months, I completely brainwashed myself. So, again, when people say, well, how did you do 6 figures in your first month?

It wasn't really my first month. It was my fifteenth month Mhmm. Because I had been brainwashing myself for twelve. So think of it this way, Steve. If somebody took away all of your knowledge right now about wholesaling, you know nothing about wholesaling, but you still had all of the self improvement that you've been disciplined enough to give yourself, and you started wholesaling tomorrow, you would crush it because you'll learn the wholesaling part.

Yeah. That's the easy part, the the whys and the the ins and outs and the tips and tricks. If you already have the mindset right going into that, you have a huge advantage over everyone else because most people are concurrently trying to get their head right while they're learning how to cold call.

Steve: Yeah.

Matthew: And that's very difficult because cold calling sucks. So you're gonna quit if your mind isn't right. By the time I sat down and picked up a phone to cold call a pre probate, which is one of the worst things in the world a human being can do, I was already successful. I already had deals in the pipeline. I was ready to go, and there was no question I was gonna succeed.

Steve: Yeah. I think something that, you know, people are are hard to see. And, yeah, you you know, you say it was your fifteenth month. There's this idea, like, you know, it was an overnight success, and I think you need to give yourself a little more credit. But there's a little bit of, you know, Jim Collins that says, you know, sometimes takes five years Yep.

To become an overnight success.

Matthew: Become an overnight success. Exactly right.

Steve: You don't see all the work behind the scenes. Yeah. So let's just start. Okay. So you sold your bathroom business.

You had your exit there, and then you started January 2018. And what were what were the first steps you took as far as marketing goes when you said, alright, this is it. I'm all in.

Matthew: Yeah. Good question. So Lance is a direct mail guy. So first thing, 5,000 postcards went out. But in addition to that, I was cold calling pre probates, cold calling probates.

I was cold calling pre foreclosures. I was knocking doors of pre foreclosures. I was knocking doors of tax delinquents, not very well received in Pittsburgh to say the least. I was doing a ton of driving for dollars. I back then, we didn't have, some of the apps like GoNOC and others that we have now where you can do the virtual driving for dollars.

Mhmm.

Steve: I

Matthew: just went on Google Earth and kinda toured around the nicer neighborhoods. And then my wife and I would hand write letters, and we would mail them off. It's so funny that this comes up. We got a call, and I'm sure my team is laughing about this right now. We got a call from one of those handwritten letters that my wife and I wrote in January 2018 yesterday.

The lady passed away, and her daughter found the letter in her desk that I hand wrote about having an interest in her house, and we got an appointment. So the point is, it was just grinding, just basic stuff. It's the same stuff everybody else did, but with the mindset of, I'm gonna succeed because I've already got this mental thing on point. And so we started off with the mail, and at first, I struggled. I was going on appointments, and I was trying to implement the same strategies that I used in previous businesses, and that was way, way, way too aggressive.

Way too aggressive. I mean, I was, like, borderline getting physical here on these appointments, telling people they're gonna sign their house. And so it wasn't until the third month that I really got a hang of how this all worked, and that's when we started doing deals.

Steve: Can I share a story ahead? Please. So I went to this by appointment a long time ago. Can't remember when it was. I think I was a competitive bodybuilder.

He made it a point to explain to me he was a competitive bodybuilder.

Matthew: We do that.

Steve: And so I've got this contract. I was like, you know, I think his house is worth $2.40 and he wanted an offer for $2.40. He's like, I'm at $1.80. And then he started flexing. He's like, no.

It was gonna be $2.40. I was like, no. It's gonna be $1.80. But where's the door? Yeah.

And he he flexed one more time. I was like, alright. I gotta get out of here. I don't know where this guy is going with this.

Matthew: Yeah. He's a weirdo. Yeah. So what I would actually do is so simultaneously to having the bath business, I was the company that we bought our products from saw the volume we were doing and said, how are you selling this many walk in tubs in a relatively small market? And so what they did was hire me to be a consultant to go and meet with other distributors and teach their reps how to sell the walk in tubs.

Well, I had designed a system of a one call close, involving price drops, high, high, high pressure. So you go into the house, you give the presentation, you tell them I'm gonna give you three prices. One price is good for forty five days, or excuse me, one price is good for a year, one price is good for forty five days, The next price is good today. And then you hit them at the end with the 20,000 for a year. Of course, if you wanna make a decision in the next forty five days, the price is $16.05.

So, you know, take your time, think about it, pray on it, let me know. And, of course, then they say, well, didn't didn't you say there was another price, like a today price? And you say, oh, my. I I didn't think you were ready today, but since you brought it up Mhmm.

Steve: And

Matthew: then you turn the paper on, it's like $12,000. So it worked. It worked.

Steve: You created a false sense of urgency. Exactly.

Matthew: And it worked really well, and I trained a lot of people on how to do it. It didn't translate quite as well going into people's homes.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: And so I really thought those first few months, I'm gonna go in there and I'm gonna bulldog people with this incredible skill set that I have, and people are gonna sign their houses over to me. And they they didn't. They did the exact opposite. As you trained people, what did they do? They just pulled away.

Oh, yeah. They're gonna slam on it. Thirsty. Yeah. Mhmm.

And so I did nothing. It wasn't until the third month where I really got a feel for, okay, this is not just a bathtub. Yeah. This is somebody's home. This is, in some cases, the biggest asset they own.

I need to pump my brakes a little bit, be a little more empathetic, and that's when I really started.

Steve: Well, the biggest thing for a lot of people that are transitioning is you're not selling a product anymore. You're not even selling a service. I know we think we're selling a service. We're not.

Matthew: Right.

Steve: We're selling us. Yeah. And that's it. We're selling Matthew. That's it.

And if you're gonna sell Matthew, you can't high pressure.

Matthew: No. No. Nobody wants to buy a high pressure Matthew.

Steve: Yeah. So talk about, you know, two goose eggs. Right? Mhmm. It was two and then the nine.

So you've got this background of all those books you've read, the mental, toughness, the the, the clarity and so on. What was it like the first two months when you're sending out 5,000 postcards and nothing's happening? Like, what was there any self doubt? Was there any talk, like, you know, this wasn't for you? What was that?

Because that's the struggle that a lot of people still face today.

Matthew: Yeah. No. There wasn't. And honestly, I have to give credit to my wife. My wife is just so supportive.

I mean, just imagine. So she when she met me, I didn't even mention I had vending machines. That was another business that was successful, but I sold it. Then the gym. She goes through that ride with me.

Then the the bath company, she goes through that ride with me. Then I tell her I watched the YouTube video, and I'm gonna start wholesaling real estate. And she doesn't even hesitate. She she she just says, yeah. Do it.

You're gonna do it. I can't can't express enough how important that is to people. People focus so much on who they partner with on the business side, and they don't even think that the person that they're potentially gonna partner with is a spouse Mhmm. Is just as much, if not more important. I can't imagine all the weight of being an entrepreneur having to drag someone else along that journey who's not on board.

She carries me. I carry her. And so, no. I never figure this out. Keep doing what you're doing.

I also had Lance in my in my ear telling me, you're doing everything right. Keep doing it. Maybe relax a little bit on your appointments. You're a little bit of a spaz, I've been told. But eventually no.

I I was in a good space, man. I knew what was gonna happen.

Steve: So let's talk about the very first deal.

Matthew: Okay.

Steve: How did you find that deal? First deal,

Matthew: cold called. I pre probate. Luckily, the call was well received. They said, I'm glad you called. We really need to get rid of this place.

It was a rental, and everything that I had studied was that Max Maxwell 70% of ARV minus repairs, which is where we're still selling in Pittsburgh today. So I'm evaluating it as a flip, but it's in an area called Natrona Heights. It's not really a flip area per se, especially this neighborhood, but it was truly turnkey. Now that actually all worked to my advantage, because if I did that now, I would have offered more because I would have known that as a turnkey rental, the place had value. But to me, I'm I'm looking at 70% of ARV, and it's not unusual in this area to have an ARV be like $50,000.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: So I'm saying, alright. So I'm at thirty five minuteus repairs. The place is turnkey, but the whole thing would be updated to look like these ones on HGTV. So my goodness, I don't even know if I could wholesale this place at any number. And so that worked to my advantage because I went back to the seller and I said, listen, I don't wanna insult you.

The reality is you know that I'm gonna probably flip the house. And by the time I run those numbers backwards and subtract off some profit, you know what the values are here. I'm afraid it's not gonna leave much meat on the bone for a purchase price, and I really don't wanna insult you. And I just kinda left it at that. And that was the key because then they they felt comfortable enough to say, hey, we're not expecting insult us.

We understand you have to make money. So I said $9,000. They said we were hoping for 20. We settled on eleven first deal, sold it for 29. So I got it for 11, sold it for 29, which was $18,000.

And there weren't a ton of people in Pittsburgh doing wholesaling. So I remember I went and talked to a couple people, and they were just shocked. You got it for eleven? You so you're gonna have to do a double close. I mean, at $18,000, that's insane.

Like and, of course, now, you know, that's kinda normal. But back then, it was kinda like a really big deal. So that was the first one. Again, proof of concept, and from there, it just kinda snowballed.

Steve: Eighteen's a great This great.

Matthew: I would take that now for sure.

Steve: Okay. So nine deals your first month, and you haven't looked back except for COVID.

Matthew: Mhmm.

Steve: So what was the journey like the rest of the year?

Matthew: It was a struggle, just because, the volume continued. I mean, for from month three through month eight no. Month nine, I was a solopreneur, and I had no staff. And in those six months, we did close to $700,000 as a one man show. My wife was still working full time.

She's a she was a nurse practitioner, as well as a a mother. So she had her hands full. I had no staff. So I'm doing the marketing. I'm doing the acquisitions.

I'm doing the dispositions. I'm doing the transaction coordination. Still trying to keep up with my pipeline. And so it was good and bad. The good would be that, a, I learned how to do everyone's job.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: So now when somebody on my team tries to talk shit and, oh, it's so difficult to show a property when the sellers are in the house or I I really can't lock this up at this number because of x, y, and z. I've been there. I've done it. As a matter of fact, I did it while I was doing your friend's job over there too at the same time. So I saw every single step along the way, and I learned how to do all of it.

The other good part about it was I was operating at 71% profit for six months. I had no expenses. No expenses. We paid we had marketing, and that was about it. I we took draws, but I didn't take a salary at the time.

So we were just churning away at an incredible profit margin. And actually, still to this day, use the money that we made that first six months to continue to build our rental portfolio. So it was a great lesson. I think had I hired someone sooner, I probably could have scaled even more because month nine when I hired Carolyn, my office manager, who's a godsend, she completely organized my office. And then I could really start to focus on other things.

Steve: So let's talk about the struggle as solopreneur because a lot of people listening to this show, you know, they're they're still working by themselves. And one of the greatest challenges I've witnessed my entire career is you got deals and you have fires. And if you have fires, prospecting stops. So you go through this roller coaster. Definitely.

Right? Did you go through that?

Matthew: I did. Now I will say I didn't have as many fires as most because my title company is incredible. Mhmm. I mean, we can send them a pile of crap, and we get a closing in in thirty days or less.

Steve: So that could be, like, you know, if your title company is good, you're gonna have fewer title challenges. But you're gonna have buyers that aren't performing Sure. Or hard money lenders, change of heart, or, like, I won't fund this until I get to walk through the house. Sure. You you deal with these hard money lenders, like, where do you come up with the idea that you can walk through your house?

Right?

Matthew: Right? Yeah. We still deal with that today.

Steve: Yeah. So there are these other challenges of the fires. And what happens when you're newer, when you're a solopreneur is, like, I can't have this die. I Yeah. I need I need this to close.

Right? And so because I need this to close, I stop prospecting. And then you have this other problem in four to six weeks. Sure. So how did you

Matthew: Yeah. And I would say, I wasn't newer. Was I newer to wholesaling? Yes. But not newer to business and not newer to the mental strength that's required to be able to deal with the ups and downs.

So for me, I knew the first six months to a year were gonna be hell. It was gonna be a grind. I was ready for it. And, of course, there were ups and downs. You know, deals fell apart.

But if you just keep filling your pipeline enough, you eventually get to a point where you're not living and dying with each deal.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: And so there's a little more balance. But, of course, we still struggled along the way for sure.

Steve: Yeah. So what kind of hours are you working?

Matthew: I think it'd be easier to quantify what hours I wasn't working. But yeah. I mean, I so I I'm an early riser since January 2017. So up at four, do my thing in the morning, and then, hang out with family until nine. And then from nine until my kids come home around five, 05:30, doing my thing in the office.

And then, kids were going to bed at seven back then, and then I'd work from seven to eleven. Mhmm. So that was my life for, almost about two years.

Steve: So in 2018, you still had pretty good balance?

Matthew: No. No? No. I wouldn't say that's balanced. You know, balance in the sense that I'm getting the that little bit of time with them in the morning and, some time with them in the evening.

But even on weekends, I worked. I I really don't even to me, balance is kind of a myth if you're an entrepreneur and you're early and you're trying to get started. It's not even something I seek right now. I'm just not gonna have balance at this phase of my career. I think I'm I'm told often, and certainly not by any of my loved ones, but I'm told often that I work too much.

I hear that a lot. And it's funny because I consider myself kind of ambitiously lazy. Like, I will do anything right now to have freedom at some point, and we have a very clear path to freedom. My wife and I have financial goals and a path to get there. So the way I look at it is the guy who's driving downtown every day, he's the guy who loves to work.

Mhmm. Not me. I mean, I I hate to work so bad that I work my ass off now to not have to.

Steve: Right.

Matthew: That guy's gonna work for the next forty years, only to probably retire and have to still work or do something else.

Steve: And so, Dave Ramsey says, you know, like, live like nobody today so that you can live like nobody.

Matthew: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And to do that, I'm not sure you can find a real great balance. And so for me, we sacrifice a ton.

My wife works just as much as I do. We we sacrifice a ton. We haven't watched TV in three years, literally. And we're not some weirdos that think that TV is like the devil. We love watching TV.

We're normal people. It's just not something that's on our radar right now. And so we find that there's a lot of things that we do miss out on.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: And that's a decision we've made to to keep pursuing our financial goals. I mean, I see all this stuff on social media right now, whether it be about Trump or COVID or freaking Pizzagate or whatever all these weirdos are talking about. And and the reality is some of it's legitimate and some of it's not, but my point is I have blinders on. I'm I'm just not at a phase of my life, and this may make me selfish. I'm not at a phase of my life or my career where I can be an activist right now.

I just can't. I'm I'm focused on one thing, and that is financial freedom. And, of course, along the way, there comes my family, but I can't be focusing on 10 different things right now.

Steve: So let's let's define that because financial freedom is a lot of different things to different people.

Matthew: Mhmm.

Steve: What does financial freedom mean to Matthew Simmons and family?

Matthew: $50,000 a month passive

Steve: Gotcha.

Matthew: From real estate. So we have other streams that we're working on as well. But the goal is $50,000 a month passive from real estate. That's after all, management fees. Everything's paid.

And with PACE, I'm part of the sub two crew Mhmm. As you know. Shout out to sub two crew. Love it. Just an unbelievable group of men and women, especially Pace.

The amount of time and effort and love he pours into these people is insane. So I I can't thank him enough. He's just been a life changer for our business. But what I found is that in order for us to get the 50,000 a month passive, we need to wholesale our asses off because it it cost a lot of money. These sub two houses, these free houses, they're expensive.

Yeah. And they add up. You know, your entry fee, our average entry fee is $1,213,000 dollars on a sub two deal. And so you do three of those a month, it really chews into your cash flow. But we're on a pace where in three and a half years, I will be 49, 50, depending.

My wife will be 38. We'll be at that $50,000 number, and we'll just disappear. I can go play with my babies, and you you won't hear from me. Now I wouldn't shut the company down because I I'm hoping we'll get into kinda culture and how I pay my team. We're gonna keep things churning along for them.

Yeah. But as far as me in a day to day role, I'll be long gone.

Steve: Gotcha. So going back to earlier, you were saying the first three to nine months. The first nine months you were a solopreneur. Hire somebody and it kinda took off. Mhmm.

So what was your first hire?

Matthew: First hire was an office manager, organizing the marketing, like, what am I supposed to be mailing? How do we who are we supposed to be calling? Set me up with a CRM, set up my texting, set up my cold call.

Steve: You didn't have a CRM?

Matthew: No. No. I'm not a real tech. I I might as well not have one now. I don't even look at the thing.

But

Steve: but I think this is an important point, though, because a lot of guys a lot of people watching or the audience is they're like, you know, what I need to create a website. I need to get a business card. I need an LLC. And you were just out there making a mess.

Matthew: Oh, yeah. Just what did they call ignorance on fire was what the one guy told me. Like, you epitomize ignorance on fire. I didn't know any better. I didn't care.

Just go go go. In fact, it's it's so funny. And when the sub two groups group started, there was a guy that went on there in the very beginning and said, hey, I just got a list. I wanna start calling it. Should I use my cell phone?

Mhmm. So I'm like, dude, yes. Yes. Call, call, call. And there were like 30 comments, no.

Don't call. Get a Google Voice. Get this, get that. Like, dude, just call. Yeah.

And like, good, you're gonna get your business cards too and your golf shirt? Like, to me, you better get an LLC. Just call. Yeah. And that's what we did.

We just Just start. Just start. Yeah. That's that's You'll figure everything else out.

Steve: My message is consistently is, like, I don't care. Just start. Yeah. And everything you'll figure everything else out.

Matthew: The analogy of there's a car going down a windy road. It's dark. It's got its headlights on. You can't see what's way ahead, but you can see enough to keep moving forward.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: So many people stop because they don't know what's around the corner. You don't need to see what's over there. Just keep moving forward, and eventually, you'll figure it out.

Steve: Yeah. There's, something I learned. You know, I'm really in a personal development. And, one thing that I've heard is there's just in case learning and there's just in time learning. And so many people are so focused on just in case learning, which here would be surveying, getting out of your car, surveying

Matthew: Yeah.

Steve: The the landscape and just in time learning is just let's just figure out what we need to do if we get from here to here.

Matthew: Right.

Steve: And we get from here to here, then once we're there, we'll figure out what we had to do next.

Matthew: Exactly right.

Steve: Yeah. So I love it. So you need to have a CRM when you're doing all these deals. Amazing. So Yeah.

Alright. So she helped you with the CRM, organizing your your business. At that point,

Matthew: what was your overhead? So she was an, an annual salary.

Steve: So but right before hiring her, what was your overhead? What was the business?

Matthew: Oh, the monthly overhead. I think we were spending about 12 in marketing. Total overhead for the business was probably about $15.16.

Steve: And that's predominantly mailers? Yes. Okay. Yep. So you hire her.

She organizes your life. And you and then you said that your business even went even crazier. It did. Alright. So what happened?

Matthew: Yeah. So what happened was she started handling some of the transaction coordination. She started handling a lot of the things that were diverting my attention from acquisitions. So, brought her on on an annual salary, and it I mean, it paid for itself immediately because, I was able to get more deals under contract. And then, really, to be honest, the next hire that completely changed everything was dispositions, mostly because I hate dispositions.

The thought of going into someone's house while they're in there and showing it to 20 potential buyers, to me, is it's a nightmare. It's just not something I look forward to.

Steve: That's more stressful to you than calling someone that's pre probate.

Matthew: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Amazing. Yeah.

Matthew: I don't know what it is. I just I get really anxious when I go into someone's house

Steve: and

Matthew: I'm bringing in buyers. And so, and that's even after telling the sellers, hey. This doesn't fit my model. I'm gonna share it with some of my financial partners. Still, I just get an uncomfortable vibe.

So, I brought in someone to do dispositions. She also took over transaction coordination full time. So now I have somebody organizing my marketing, somebody answering the phone, somebody telling me who I should be calling because I have a legit CRM, somebody handling the transaction coordination, and somebody doing the dispositions. Now I'm full steam ahead on marketing excuse me, on acquisitions, and it really started to take off.

Steve: Okay. So your office manager, how are you compensating her?

Matthew: $30,000 a year when I hired her. She's since gotten raises. But, yeah, when I first hired her, $30,000 a year. Hired her off of Indeed, interviewed about eight people, and she's been a godsend. Tremendous.

Steve: And a disposition person?

Matthew: So I actually went on the Facebook, on the investors page, and I put, hey, any agents interested in selling my deals? At the time, I said, I'll pay $500 per deal, and you're responsible for finding a buyer and transaction coordination. So funny. Like 20 agents were like, yeah, dollars 500. Why would anyone do that for $500 Well, we're doing 15 deals a month.

Mhmm. So, I mean, I know what a lot of agents make. So I didn't wanna disrespect anybody, but I had a handful of people reach out. Talked to three or four, brought on, a girl who was not only an agent but was working towards her brokerage license, and she just she knows all of the ins and outs of real estate, and she's a hard ass, So she's perfect for dispositions. Even though I love her, she's a hard ass.

And so now that I had that off my plate, I knew we were maximizing what we could get for the deals. Again, get my focus back to acquisitions. I just wanted to be in the house. Now I don't ever wanna be in the house.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: I know that that's not where my time is best served, and I don't. I haven't been on an appointment in a long time.

Steve: So do you know what your average fee was approximately before you hired her?

Matthew: Yeah. $11.05.

Steve: And what was your average fee after you hired her?

Matthew: $13.02 50. Okay.

Steve: So she's more than paying for herself, and she's saving you time.

Matthew: Definitely. Yeah. And headaches. I mean, I that's one of the things. I I was at a point where when I first started, I wanted to be everyone's friend.

And so you get someone that calls you and says, hey. That deal you just put out, I'll take it. Okay. Well, I have six people scheduled to go over tomorrow at 10:00, so I'll see you there. No.

No. No. I'll take it. You're done. That's it.

And I really would take it personal. I'd feel terrible. Whereas Tina, she has no problem saying, no. No. No.

We'll see you tomorrow, and we show the property. And so it's made a huge difference for us.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. Okay. So, what kind of volume were you doing at this point after you hired her?

Matthew: Yeah. We were right around, like, eight to 12 deals a month Okay. Give or take.

Steve: And then what was your key, next milestone?

Matthew: Next milestone was hiring acquisitions.

Steve: Okay.

Matthew: So I was so nervous. Despite doing eight to 12 deals a month, I really felt like I just didn't have enough meat on the bone to hire somebody. And I didn't wanna hire somebody and not have enough leads for them. I think that's everyone's fears. I'm gonna bring this person on who has a good job, who's making good money, and I'm gonna make them this promise of coming on board here, and and they're gonna make money and then not have leads for them.

Mhmm. But when I took the leap, I brought on two at the same time. I just felt like one of them is probably not gonna work out. Let's bring them on, and I'll be able to judge. And I luckily, I had kept really good KPIs on my well, my wife had kept really good KPIs on my performance leading up to this.

So I had I knew what the bar was set at. At least I knew what I thought the gold standard was. So I thought I'll bring two on. They'll kinda compete a little bit, and one of them's not gonna work out. Luckily, they both worked out.

That is They crushed it.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. So, what is since you've hired them, what is your deal flow like now?

Matthew: So since we hired them, we actually hired another acquisitions person. We have three. We have junior acquisitions. We have a creative guy. Deal flow now now is more like anywhere from 12 to 20.

This month is insane. This would be a record month for us. But typical is, like, 12 to 20.

Steve: What is this month gonna be like? Revenue or deals? Both.

Matthew: Revenue, little over 300, which is insane for us. Awesome. Yeah. That's that's very abnormal. More typical is, you know, one, one fifty, 200 maybe.

And we're gonna do about 21 deals. A big part of the reason was when Pennsylvania got shut down like it did, a lot of our deals were just kinda sitting.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: We couldn't get dye test done. We couldn't meet municipal requirements. People couldn't get funding, but we had deals lined up in the pipeline. Dye test. Oh my.

Yeah. Pittsburgh thing. Good. You're asking the wrong guy. But, basically, they pour some dye down the toilet and down the downspouts, and they make sure that that water is going to the right place.

So it's not going into our drinking water. It's not going into the sewage, whatever. And so it's a municipal requirement in certain places. So if those things are shut down, even if your title company's given it hell, you can't close if you can't get lien letters because you haven't completed those

Steve: things. Yeah. And I was messaging with Shalaba, like, throughout the time. He was not happy with the with the governor. No.

Matthew: None of us were. None of us are, I should say. I mean, I'm o I'm I'm okay with a responsible shutdown. I really am. But it was the clean sweep.

It was lazy legislature. There's obviously ways to conduct real estate responsibly.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: So if we can find a way for vape shops to do it, if we can find a way for Italian ice shops to do it, surely there's a way that real estate can operate responsibly.

Steve: Surely. Surely. So, so we talked about how you got here today. So, you know, a big part a a lot of the reason why people are watching, we're talking about, you know, 2,000,000. And, you know, we talked about the the the challenges that you face, but people probably wanna know, you know, as far as, like, is there a particular lead source you like the best?

Or is there anything that you do differently that you believe in the competition? So let's just start with and who do you target?

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. Man, I wish I had some some special, list that I could give you. But reality, we target the same stuff everybody else does, tax delinquent, probate, pre probate, for pre foreclosure, absentee owners, especially during COVID. We had a lot of success with that.

I think for us, what sets us apart, two things. One is, since we hooked up with Pace Morby, we have multiple options for sellers. Mhmm. We were doing some sub twos before we linked up with him, but now we're doing sub twos. Not only we're doing them the right way, but we're doing seller finance.

We're doing wraps. So now and we have an agent on our team. So now when we go into the house, it's truly coming from a place of service. We're not just going in there and making a lowball offer. The acquisition manager can go in there and say, I truly have this person's best interest at heart because I can help them any number of different ways.

Whereas, I think a lot of times, traditional wholesalers are going into the house and saying, alright. How am I gonna get this, you know, at $50.60 cents on the dollar? Mhmm. We're going in and saying, okay. What are your needs?

What are your wants? How can I help you? If that's sub two, great. If it's seller finance, great. If it's a cash deal, great.

If not, we'll list it for you. That's one thing. It's just having the ability to do more things than others. But number two, I would say, and I think we'll probably get to this at some point, but it's the people, and it's the culture we've created with the company and the reason we're all doing this that really makes us, I think, stand apart.

Steve: Well, I have done a talk some back in whole scaling actually Okay. Where we hung out. Yes. And my talk was how to build a cult. Yes.

So culture is something I'm very passionate about. Yeah. So let's talk about culture.

Matthew: Cool. Yeah. Speaking of wholesaling, I wanna shout out Elizabeth. Navarrete and Charles Wen. They definitely encourage me to seek you out Yeah.

And get on the show. So I really appreciate them. Yeah. So our culture, I think, really sets us apart in that we have a unique way of paying our acquisition managers. What I came to hear when I first started this from everyone was acquisition managers are divas.

They're hard to keep. They're either gonna leave and take what you've taught them and go do it on their own, or they're going to, if they don't, then they're probably gonna be high maintenance. Stars to do acquisitions. Terrible advice. Terrible.

Or hire rock stars and just be prepared that they're gonna steal your shit and

Steve: leave. Well,

Matthew: I didn't like either of those options. So we thought, what's a way that we can create a company where our vision and our dream is so big that the goals and dreams and vision of our acquisition managers can fit into that somehow. And so what we came up with was a credit system. So I designed this as a way to cut down on losing acquisition managers originally. So if you're currently doing creative finance, if you're doing sub twos, if you're doing seller finance, and you what I'm about to tell you, I think, will really change your business if you implement this.

If you're not doing creative, I would encourage you to learn how for this reason alone, if you're a scaled operation. So the way the credit system works is every time you get a creative deal to close for the company, you earn one credit. For every three credits you earn as an acquisition manager, the next one you get, you get to keep the house. So for every three houses you get me, you get to keep one. So now you're no longer just paying the money.

Of course, everyone wants money. But what do these people really want? Mhmm. They want financial freedom just like you do. And so we are able to bring people on that are out of our league.

The people that we have on our team are out of our league. I would not be able to pay them enough to keep them onboard, interested, and hanging around. But the reason why they will is because now they're building their own rental portfolio, you leveraging my marketing

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: My staff, my connections on the real on the construction side, my connections on the banking side if they need it, my connections on the management side. These are people who already wanted a rental portfolio, maybe didn't have the means, maybe didn't have the courage or the know how or the connections. And now you can take someone who is, in one case, a pharmaceutical rep making $150,000 leave their job, and come work for Fifth Avenue Property Group with the hope of maybe making 90 to 100, but at the end of their first year have three properties in their portfolio. So if you're 25, 30 years old and you have a choice between 100 50 or 100 with three rental properties, for a lot of people that's a no brainer. And so we have created this this culture where we're all working towards the same thing.

We talk about financial freedom. We don't talk about our competition. We don't talk about what anybody else is doing. We're talking about how are each of us individually going to accomplish financial freedom. Of course, I'm gonna get there first.

It's my company. You've gotta get me my three if you wanna keep your one. But once I get there, I'm not gonna close the doors. No. What do you do when you get there?

You turn around and you help other people up. So at that point, and we've got this all planned out, I'm three and a half years away from getting financial freedom. When we get there, in the sense of passive, when we get there, I don't need you to give me three properties to keep one. I wanna keep the doors open. You just keep wholesaling your ass off.

That's what matters. Mhmm. That's how you keep people focused on wholesaling is because they have this this opportunity to get their own properties. So now I'm free. For every one property you get the company, you keep one until we're all free.

So the goal being you fast forward seven, eight years, there is no company. We're done. We're all free. We're gone. And so it's a totally different vibe with our team because we're all rowing in the same direction.

We're all pursuing financial freedom, not them pursuing money while getting me financially free. How long can you keep those people around?

Steve: Oh, I love it. I love that. So, in on top of that, what are they what are you paying them right now per transaction?

Matthew: Yeah. So we have a sliding scale. Starts at around it starts at 10%. So 10% of the gross spread, and then it goes up. So as you get bigger deals, the percentage you keep increases.

So we've had multiple $100,000 deals. They're keeping 20% of that. So as you go up, it slides up. And then for every, if you do five or more deals in a month, you get a two point kicker on everything that month. So it it ends up being around 12% on average.

But, again, that becomes a little less important. And, of course, everybody needs to make money. I'm not gonna downplay the the pay portion of this, but it becomes a little less important when the true reason you're doing it is financial freedom.

Steve: I love this. So, so we're having some challenges with the the technology. I'm just got some other ones. So you mentioned you have a contract construction crew.

Matthew: No. I I have contacts with Contacts. Yeah. So we have a crew that we, I wouldn't call it our crew, but they only do work for us. Because what we do is we've got these sub twos closing, and they all need work.

They all need some updates. So we keep those going. And then just to keep them working for us, we will keep maybe one flip at a time going. So far this year, we've had one one or two flips going all year. I'm I'm not a fan of flipping.

I've you know, it's just not my strength. My wife luckily manages it and does it very well. But if you if I'm managing it, like, you'll just come in one day to paint and the lights will be off or there'll be no water, like, all of the issues with, youth with, utilities and stuff.

Steve: So So I think one of the things like, you're having a lot of success success right now. Okay? There has to be some challenges. Sure. What are your biggest struggles right now?

Matthew: Oh, man. There's a lot. One is money. I mean, believe it or not, not in as far as us making money, but as far as having the ability to generate, lenders to cover these sub two deals.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: I mean, you can completely strangle your cash flow if you try to scale a sub two business without simultaneously increasing your wholesale. And so what you find is, let's say you do a $150,000 in wholesale fees, and you're working at, like, even a 50% profit. If you do four sub twos at $13,000 a piece, there's $52,000 that's just gone. And, yeah, again, we're working towards this this $50,000. That's what we're focused on.

So you're not gonna see me driving a Lambo. Like, we're focused on this $50,000. But you still you wanna have enough money to be able to continue to drive the marketing machine. And so that's when I had a conversation with Pace, and he's like, you gotta bring lenders. I've been self funding everything.

Steve: Really? Yeah. Oh my goodness.

Matthew: You've gotta bring well, through the crazy amount of wholesale deals we do. Like, when I say self funding, I'm not cutting checks out of our account. We're literally just bleeding the business dry, building our portfolio. And Pace was like, no. Because to me, I had a mental this this, like, head trash where it was, okay, if I'm gonna do a flip and I use a lender, I've got a clear path to how I'm gonna get this guy or gal their money back.

But when you're doing a sub two and you're gonna lease option it, where's the exit? The exit could be three, five years away. And so I was trying to wrap my head around, who's gonna lend me money out of

Steve: because you're used to hard money lenders or people that want their cash back. Yep. And you since found out. What was the lesson you learned?

Matthew: The lesson I learned was people will take an eight to 10% consistent return for sixty months. Mhmm. But that's one yeah. And that's one of the struggles is finding those people.

Steve: So what are you doing about that?

Matthew: Just in the last three months, like, reaching out to all of the lenders I know and saying, is this something that would interest you? Luckily, we've had one say yes. But we're just we're looking. Until then, I just keep writing checks, and I'm not gonna stop moving towards that 50,000.

Steve: There's gotta be, though, in that group. I mean, I'm sure you somebody's asking this question inside this up to crew. Right?

Matthew: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We've discussed it, and the recurring theme seems to be you've just gotta find lenders who are willing to let their money sit. Mhmm.

And and the other thing is, you know, my entry fees are only $13,000, give or take.

Steve: So if Which is on the lower side.

Matthew: It is. It is. But we're not doing a whole lot to these places. Yeah. And we're we're cherry picking out the best ones because we disposition creative deals as well.

So we're only keeping the best ones. So who's gonna give me $13,000, for sixty months at eight or 10%. It's just not that sexy. And so we're trying to find a way to package here's three to five houses and figure out

Steve: I think that's also in

Matthew: your head. Probably.

Steve: Yeah. I think we're out to talk about that some more later on.

Matthew: Okay. I'm all ears.

Steve: Yeah. So what is your superpower? Superpower? Discipline,

Matthew: for sure.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think having a body like that.

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. It's and not just like in I think a lot of people can muster up discipline in minor doses.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: I'm talking about, like, extreme, savage discipline to the point where, I made a decision three years ago. So what I did was I told you I was kinda disappointed with myself, where I was as a man, three years ago. And so when I sat down, I wrote down, here's the kind of man that I'm going to become. And these were nonnegotiables. And And one of them was wake up at 04:00.

One of them was I'm not gonna eat like shit. And there was a long list of things. And once I made that decision, I never, in three years, I've never disappointed myself. Mhmm. And that means a lot to me because it's it's a sign of me keeping true to my word to myself.

I think so many people hold other people's commitment sacred. Right? What they say to other people, they'll be a man or a woman of their word, but they don't do that to themselves.

Steve: And make excuses for themselves.

Matthew: Exactly. No. I don't do that. So, I I think for me, it started with little victories, which begins to build confidence. And then from there, you know, you can become unstoppable.

Steve: Someone says here, Alex Halazar says, you need to meet with Dave Day. And that's my private money mentor.

Matthew: So I'm aware of him. I've seen some of your guys' stuff together, and I've definitely considered that.

Steve: Yeah. And then someone else is asking pre probate. Does pre probate question mark? You wanna elaborate on that?

Matthew: Yeah. As best I can. I don't know all the legalities, but I'm pretty sure it just means everybody who has passed away. Mhmm. So not everyone who dies dies goes through probate.

Right? So pre probate is just a a list you can buy separate from probates that is just everyone who has passed away who owned property. A lot of those are gonna be duplicates. Later, they'll come through as a probate lead.

Steve: Right.

Matthew: But not all.

Steve: Yep. Absolutely right. And then, what is the greatest lesson you have learned? This doesn't have to be just in real estate.

Matthew: That's a tough one. I would say what we just talked about. I think really for me, becoming a man of your word to yourself, it changed my whole life. I mean, really, everything that I do now is based on who I am. I sat down, I wrote down who I wanted to become, I became that person, and all of my decisions, regardless of how I feel, are based on who I am.

Because as you know, if you do what you feel like doing, you're not gonna have a successful career or life for that matter. So I make every single decision based on who I am as a man, not how I feel.

Steve: That's incredible. Who is it? I hear Daniel Nguyen says you sound a little bit like Jocko Wilnick. So I think that's that's a compliment, I think.

Matthew: Yeah. I'll take it.

Steve: So let's see. The question is here. How do you how do you plan on getting to 50 k passive with serve two? I think that's self explanatory, but maybe you wanna elaborate on that.

Matthew: Yeah. No. Pretty self explanatory. We're averaging about $900 a month adding passive cash flow

Steve: Yeah.

Matthew: Through sub twos. So,

Steve: I guess yeah. So how many doors are you adding a month

Matthew: right now? We're adding between three and four.

Steve: Okay. So three and four.

Matthew: We average about $300 a month cash flow, which means I need about a 150 doors to reach 50 k.

Steve: Gotcha.

Matthew: We're on our way.

Steve: And then Elaine wants to know what is your favorite marketing strategy?

Matthew: Direct mail. I don't have any fancy secrets. My postcard looks like shit. It's cost a quarter, and it's it's been the same since the day the the postcard that I sent in January 2018 is the same postcard we send now. It's black and white.

It says notice real big across the top, and it just works.

Steve: Who are you using for that?

Matthew: We use a local company in Pittsburgh.

Steve: Gotcha.

Matthew: Pittsburgh mailing.

Steve: So let's see. Yeah. They were asking a question, what do you do for marketing? Where do you answer that? So number one market strategy, emailers.

That's it. No secrets. And that's that's the great thing because you're talking about something that's not sexy at all. Yeah. Alright.

It's not this fancy thing. It's just you just do what you know works. Amazing what you can accomplish if you just do what you know works. Yep. But it's so easy to get distracted.

Matthew: Ordinary things done consistently create extraordinary results.

Steve: We've

Matthew: all seen it. Yeah. Cold calling is nothing special. But if you cold call for two hours every day, seven days a week, you'll get special results. Yeah.

But, yeah, that's not sexy.

Steve: So I I shared with you. Right? I updated the intro, you know, for today. And I wrote it down, you know, if we take massive action, you'll have success. And I changed it to consistent action because it's really not massive action that swings that that moves needle.

No. It's doing the same thing over and over again. It's how, riverbeds are made. You know? It's just you just need to be consistent.

Yep. What is your favorite best or most interesting failure?

Matthew: Wow. Okay, buzzkill. Man, trying to to be positive here for the kids. Two I would say two things. One is social media.

I suck on social media. So if you're out there and you're like a social media maven, and you like this obnoxious personality and awesome beard, let me know because I could use some love. But, I I told my wife when I started, because I watch Max Maxwell. I said, I'm going to start a vlog, which is a video blog, Steve. And I'm going to blow this thing up.

It's gonna be called zero to zero to seven in 12. So zero to seven in 12. Zero to seven figures in twelve months. So I'm gonna build this wholesaling business to 7 figures in the first twelve months. And we shot we shot video.

We shot two episodes. And what I quickly came to realize was getting to 7 figures wholesaling was a lot easier than making a vlog. I hated it. I was self conscious. Every time the dude would call me, like, hey, we gotta shoot, I'd blow them off.

Fast forward 12, and my wife's like, well, you should've done it. Here we are. Seven figures in your fur you called it. You're like, you know, like, Babe Ruth did, and nobody got to see any of it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Matthew: So that's a huge failure. The other one would be, you know, we try not to cancel too many deals. I know you guys close on everything. We're probably, like, 80% some of our stuff falls through, which I think is still pretty good given our volume. But we lost some money on a deal because I locked it up too high, sent it out to our list, realized within the first day it was too high, wasn't getting any action.

Did something we never do, which is send it out a second time at a reduced price, started calling buyers in the area. Nobody wanted this deal. Called the old lady back and said, hey, my funding partners, I told you we're not buying this ourselves. They're not seeing this the way we are. I'm gonna have to cancel.

She was so nice. Okay, Matthew, I completely understand. Canceled the deal. It was a 60 day contract. Fast forward forty five days, her son, Leo, I'll never forget, calls me.

I was cutting my grass and says, hey. How's it coming on the closing? We haven't heard anything. And I said, Leo, I canceled that. Two days after I signed, I spoke to your mom, and he lost his mind.

And I don't mean he was mad. He was crying. He was upset. And he said, listen. My mom's got dementia.

She's really struggling. We have been looking forward to this closing for forty five days. She's She's living with my sister in a two bedroom apartment. She needs this money. And I'm not saying you didn't tell her you were canceling, but she doesn't remember.

She's packed up and moved out. So I call my dispositions girl, and I say, what what happens if we take this to the MLS? She's like, well, it's it's pretty ugly. So how bad is it gonna be? Well, it looks like we could lose anywhere from, like, five to ten.

So I talked to my wife who's the, CFO, and I'm like, hey. I messed up. Here's the situation. I think we should buy this house. And she was what do you why?

What do you mean? Well, we decided to buy it. We sold it. We lost about $8. So is that a failure?

Yes. But, technically, we lost money.

Steve: But It's a business failure.

Matthew: It is. It is. But It's not a moral failure. Try to operate I call it leaving crumbs. I don't wanna go through life leaving crumbs where I've gotta look over my shoulder and and feel like I've done people wrong.

So that's probably it.

Steve: Yeah. I wouldn't call that a failure. I think that's admirable. And we've done that. I mean, losing money for us.

We've walked away from, you know, earnest money. I've actually had a situation where I not only did I cancel and give them my earnest money, she called me later on, Like, I lost this because of you were buying it. I was like, well, how how much did you lose because of this? It's like, alright. I I wrote her a check for that.

You know, made her whole because

Matthew: Yeah.

Steve: She made a decision based off my offer. Right. Right? So I rather like, I sleep better Exactly. Writing a check than, you know, knowing someone's out there, like, suffering because of me.

Exactly. So you, Ebony Ray wants to know what title company are you using? I'm guessing she's in your market.

Matthew: PV PV settlement. I'm glad you asked. They're the best.

Steve: And Patrick Fitzgerald wants to know, when you started, what kind of budget did

Matthew: you have? Man. 5,000 postcards. I wish, I could phone a friend here. I'd call my wife.

But whatever it cost to send 5,000 postcards Yeah. The data was was pretty cheap. I was using, like, list source and stuff. So, couple thousand bucks.

Steve: So you've got a library inside your head.

Matthew: I do.

Steve: Right? So, I mean, just doing quick math, over a 100 books in the last few years.

Matthew: For

Steve: sure. What would be the top two or three books that someone's got to read?

Matthew: Man, that's hard to to narrow down. The guy brought up, Jocko Willing. That book was gifted to me by Ryan Schlaba, who you had on your show.

Steve: Incredible, dude.

Matthew: Yeah. They're they kill it in Pittsburgh. The market leaders there for sure. So he gifted me Extreme Ownership. And that book to me, it it just really spoke to me.

It definitely kinda surmises everything I've said here today about taking responsibility for everything. It kinda started for me with Grant Cardone. He would talk about how if you get in a car accident, it's your fault. You should have left five minutes sooner. You could have been further back, whatever.

But it really didn't resonate with me until I heard that book and really came to realize that once you take responsibility for everything in your life, now you have control, and now you can you can move forward. So that book for sure, Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins. There's so many. I'm really thankful I read The Road Less Stupid pre COVID. That book, chapter 10 of The Road Less Stupid, I listen to it once a week.

Yeah. That will tell you exactly what not to do.

Steve: What chapter? What was that topic on that chapter?

Matthew: Something about, a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. And he talks about the lessons learned from the two thousand and eight crash. And he goes through all of the things, the arrogance, the complacency, all of the things that lead to people, failing when a market shifts. And he talks about how when the market shifts, you can't make cuts quick enough. You can't, adjust quick enough.

And that was so true in COVID. We literally and this was so frustrating. I wanna actually give you a shout out for this. I told you this on Facebook. I don't know if you remember.

But when COVID happened, there were so many national gurus saying, yes. This is what we've been waiting for. Double down on marketing. Go all in. Everyone else is gonna pull back the reins.

You should go all in. That's what we're doing. What was frustrating for me in the Pittsburgh market was we couldn't close on properties.

Steve: Yeah.

Matthew: So I had no clear path to revenue. Yeah. I could increase my marketing, but without knowing when I was ever gonna have a closing. What you said is here's what we are doing. We haven't changed anything.

Steve: Mhmm. Well,

Matthew: that makes sense because you can speak to your market.

Steve: Yeah.

Matthew: But you didn't say you shouldn't change anything, and there were so many national guys. And it's frustrating because here I am on a Zoom with my team saying, guess what, guys? No more direct mail. Sorry. We gotta step up our self gen game.

We're gonna continue to do this, continue to do that, but direct mail is done. Mhmm. And they're listening to the same gurus I'm listening to. They're saying, well, they're telling us we should be doubling down. Why are we cutting back?

Thankfully, we made cuts. My business cost about $61,000 a month to operate. We got it down to about 11 self gens, started doing Zooms, stayed positive. My team was incredible through COVID because Pennsylvania, we just we it was brutal.

Steve: Well, it's interesting because Ryan, I thought, pivoted faster than anybody. You know? Yeah. I mean, it was incredible. So it sounds like you you guys did the same thing.

Matthew: Yeah. We all talked and said that this is not looking good with our governor again, it's not that you you probably could have carved out a bigger market share during that time. Possibly. But at what expense? There's no we had no idea when we were gonna have our next closing.

We talked to our title company, and and they basically said, we can continue to move forward. But if the government agencies aren't providing us with the things we need, I have no idea when your next closing's gonna be. Yeah. So you're locking up properties today that typically would close in '30 that may not close for sixty, ninety, a hundred and twenty days. And at that point, by the way, I have no idea what the ARV is gonna be.

Yeah. So I don't even know if these are deals. Stressful.

Steve: Yeah. I remember I was on a couple of calls, and I made that, I I made a comment to somebody. I was like, you're making really bad suggestions. Yeah. And I don't think they liked what I had to say, but I thought that you can't it's you can't blank the statement of this whole country.

Like, real estate's local. Yep. Yeah. So, and then I think, doing when he wants to know, what do you recommend someone who has a full time job doing this business, who has a full time job doing this business? What's your advice to someone like that?

Matthew: Yeah. That's tough. I mean, you you've gotta run I think Ed Mylett calls them many days. You've gotta run many days where your nine to five is day one and, you know, catch your breath. I don't know if Dewey has kids, but, six to eleven.

Like I said, for me, you know, I work till eleven every night, and I didn't have another job. But you're gonna have to work from six to eleven. You're gonna have to work weekends, and it's worth it. I mean, it's You

Steve: don't have a choice. When your your first three years or longer, this is forty hours is is is is not gonna cut it.

Matthew: No. Kiss it goodbye. And I would also tell them spend as much time on, self self improvement as you do on the wholesaling. I mean, because it's so hard that if you're not in a good head space, you will quit.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And then sixty one thousand pre COVID, where was that going?

Matthew: What was I spending it on? Mhmm. Well, we spend $16,600 a month on marketing, give or take. We spend about $22,000 a month on payroll. That includes my wife and I.

We take a pretty healthy salary. And then I don't know. Shit. I just you spend it. I don't even know.

Steve: Oh, yeah. No. I mean, so Systems.

Matthew: Systems.

Steve: Self development. Yeah. Definitely. Travel.

Matthew: Definitely. All those things.

Steve: There's a lot of expenses in this business.

Matthew: It adds up quick. And, you know, one of the good things about COVID, if there are any, is it made us reevaluate things. What don't we need? We had a lot of weird shit in there I didn't even know we had Yeah. That we cut and never brought back.

Steve: Yeah. That's the story. I I heard it consistently. We actually didn't cut any expenses.

Matthew: That's probably good. You were tight.

Steve: Yeah. Well, we were running lean. Yeah. I know we were waiting for just something like this. Yeah.

And then let's see. Alright. Cool. So, yeah, you got a lot of love. People loving you, on YouTube.

So, I'm gonna let you think about one quick thought while I make a couple of quick announcements. So, guys, we got next week, we got, Keith Everett and Lenny coming out from Birmingham, Alabama. We're gonna hear about their story and what they're doing. And then, again, we just one last reminder, we do have that productivity, Zoom call tomorrow. So if you guys are interested, disruptors.com/time.

Like I said, I'm not selling anything. This is just people ask me how I run seven businesses and still have time for my family. I'm gonna share what works for me, and it's not gonna be any secrets. Like, it's stuff that I've learned through books and everything else.

Matthew: Yeah.

Steve: But I'm just gonna share what works for me. So before I forget, because you're a social media star, how can they get

Matthew: a hold of you on social media? The real Matthew Simmons. And that's you know, there's so many imposters. I had to be the real one, apparently.

Steve: Oh, there's Matt Simmons as a really good realtor in Pittsburgh.

Matthew: There is another Matt Simmons. That's right. So it's very confusing, but I'm the real Matthew Simmons with two t's.

Steve: Alright. So what's the last thought you wanna leave everybody with?

Matthew: You know, I thought about this and there's man, there's already so much out there on on the ins and outs and ninja tips and tricks and all those things. For me, something that I find very useful in life, not just as an entrepreneur, is finding perspective. One of my favorite entrepreneurs is is Jesse Itzler, and he talks about death and coming to terms with it, embracing it, preparing for it. And he talks about it specifically in the context of his parents. And for some of your listeners, I'm sure this might be more applicable for their for their grandparents.

But instead of thinking, you know, figure out how often you see you visit your parents or in some cases, your grandparents. Let's just say you live in Pittsburgh, they live in Florida. That's pretty common. So you visit your your folks maybe five times a year or your grandparents, and you're they're 75 years old. People make the mistake and are arrogant in thinking that they have time.

They're 75. They're probably gonna live to 80. I have time. The way he breaks it down and the way I've learned to break it down is you don't have five years left with your grandparents. You're only seeing them five times a year.

You have 25 visits left with them. And when you put things into that perspective, it's easier for me. I'm 45 years old. I've I've been able to learn that. As a 21, 22 year old, it's very hard to wrap your head around that when it comes to grandparents.

So one of the exercises that I use that's really brought me to kinda center is I imagine it's my last day on earth. Sounds kind of extreme, but I imagine it's my last day on earth. I go to my wife and I say, okay. You know, I got some news. This is it tonight at midnight.

I'm going to bed. I'm not gonna wake up. What are we gonna do? Well, let's go. So let's get in the car.

Let's get the kids. Let's go somewhere. And we just get in the car. And in this fictitious scenario, we're just driving somewhere towards the beach, towards the mountains. I don't know.

Let's just go. Let's drive east towards the coast, and the car breaks down. And so now I'm on the side of the road. It's my last day, and I'm in the car with my wife and my kids. So before I had this perspective, what I would do is punch the steering wheel, scream the f word, and make it really miserable for the people I I think what I've been able to do is say, well, wait a minute.

It's my last day on earth. Is that you wouldn't do that if it was your last day on earth. What would you do? You'd say, alright, guys. Let's get out of the car.

Let's go over here to this field and let's go run around. Let's play. Let's sing a song. Let's whatever. But you wouldn't sit in that car and you wouldn't be miserable because, again, it's your last day on earth.

And for for me, I constantly remind myself of that perspective. Calm down. Keep things in perspective, and appreciate the time that you have right now with these kids. We talked about it. My oldest is four.

Yeah.

Steve: I

Matthew: mean, he thinks I'm Superman. That goes away. And Probably next year. Yeah. I'll have to put him back in his place.

But the point is truly appreciate what you have right now Mhmm. In this moment. Having kids a little later for me has been a a godsend. My wife and I do not take anything for granted. So many people say, oh, before you know it, they're grown up, and you're not even gonna remember.

No. We we take mental note every day of how lucky we are and how much we're enjoying this journey. And I think too often as entrepreneurs, we get caught up in the grind, in the hustle, and we don't stop to appreciate things along the way.

Steve: Yeah. That's powerful. And I think that you're right. It's really easy to overlook. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure. So great. Last bit, I think that's something that's, something everybody needs to hear. So thank you very much for sharing that.

And guys, thank you for watching. Thank you for putting up with the technical difficulties, but we made it through. Thank you for coming out here. My pleasure. Thank you for sharing your story.

I think it's really powerful. I think Awesome. A lot of really good gems there. I told everyone to write down one. I don't know if they're gonna be able to write down just one from

Matthew: all time. Good. I had a blast. Thank you. Thank you.

Shout out to Steve Trane. Will it say disruptors? They cannot touch us. And, yeah, we about to give you game. Shout out to Steve Train.