$6M in Profit in 2025 with Only 12 Employees

$6M in Profit in 2025 with Only 12 Employees | Disruptors Podcast

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Casey Ryan: Know, how much we spend on marketing and how expensive those appointments can be to just generate one of them. And I would I would listen to the call, be like, there's gotta be a way to do this with the way that things are trending. It would be a great tool for any of the people using it if they could upload their call recording. So they're not sending you a link being like, what did you think of my call, Steve? Asking you that feedback, it's like, you could analyze thousands of these in, you know, five minutes.

You're done. Be consistent and structured, and they get the feedback instantly. So probably even more valuable tool for the volume of calls of all the sales teams that you're training. So that's what prompted the conversation.

Steve Trang: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have my great friend, Casey Ryan, with We Buy Any House. Casey flew in from Vegas to talk about how he made 6,000,000 in profit last year with only 12 employees. That's a lot of news on this episode. Guys, I wanna mention create millionaires.

The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, you'll become one. And before we jump in, if you wanna learn how real entrepreneurs are building real empires, hit that subscribe button. Every week we're dropping lessons that can help you create your first or your next million. And right now, you've got a 100,000 quarter mil or maybe more sitting there in your CRM.

Resurrect all your old and dead leads with the objection proof AI calling agent text cash to the phone number 33777 now to unlock the money that's just hanging out in your CRM. Ready?

Casey: I'm ready.

Steve: Alright. So I've been looking forward to this episode because there are a couple of things, and we're gonna talk about it, where you had inspired me, right, to take some action. And so, it's actually kinda funny. We, had you know, my team was there are Casey Ryan's on the show and, like, Casey Ryan, Casey Ryan, like, where have we heard this name? You know?

Like, where is this from? And I was like, we've literally mentioned his name on every single webinar. And we've been doing

Casey: about a webinar. I didn't know that.

Steve: We've been doing about a webinar a month. Right? And we mentioned, yeah, like, you know, Casey Ryan was an inspiration for our AI tool. Right? But, anyway, the reason why I'm bringing that up is because, like, you had kind

Casey: of gone down this AI journey even before I did. It's a rabbit hole for sure. Yeah. You can go down the wrong path a lot of the times too.

Steve: Yeah. So, I'm curious. When did you start, going down AI? Like, what what got you down that road, and, like, what was that journey like?

Casey: Well, I mean, as you know, my background's engineering, so I like to, tinker. So just peddling around with stuff and and and getting like, going deep in the weeds with certain things. Like, you just see a lot of efficiency. So, as as things started to come out and I got, like, a little bit more familiar, like, their their back end side of stuff and, like, just realizing the potential, and sometimes it can just it can be a total distraction. But Yeah.

But this one made a lot of sense because we spend so much time, like, if you have a sales team or even just for yourself, if you're just you're you're making calls, like, you get, like, stuck in the eye of the storm and, like, you you spend so much time, like, listening relistening to to all the calls that are are done and trying to, like, dissect them. And, like, you know, a lot of it becomes very objective, and that's never the case. You always want things like a a structured feedback loop that allows you to see where you're missing, see, you know, where you can improve and and whatnot, and then, like, assign values to certain things. So when we would score, I'd have, like, a little, rubric, like an Excel table. Right?

And then, like, try to, like, stick to that and be consistent with listening to calls, scoring them. And outside of that too, listening to calls, like, to kinda audit leads. Like, that's a missed opportunity by a salesperson. Or if you're doing listening to your own calls, that's a missed opportunity by myself because you forgot to cover this whole section of whatever the case was, or you missed this little nuance that they said. So, I just started going down the rabbit hole.

First, it started with just simply this was before, any of the call softwares had even transcripts. Right? And then, once they did even have transcripts, they would just be outlandish or it doesn't really know the information that you're looking for. If you have a 20 call, you know, and it's a a call software, like, they don't know what industry you're in, whether it's, you know, real estate or finance or whatever it might be. So I just, even when they did start coming out with the the transcriptions, I was glad that I had built my own rubric before for transcribing them, but it started there.

So phase one was I need to get all the calls transcribed, so that, you know, it's just easy to reference back to it without having to sit there for twenty minutes. You can just skim skim skim through and do it. So that was phase one. Phase two was kind of, okay. Now I'm transcribing the audio.

I need it to go you know, as soon as the call is done, come back to the CRM because we know, you know, how salespeople are. Like, they they never put anything any notes in the CRM. So you come back to these leads. They're marked cold, and it just says there's nothing in there at all. So I wanted the transcriptions in there so that I could reference that.

So then Wonder

Steve: how many people listening resonate.

Casey: Yeah. Right? I call I call one of my sales guys' captain details because, you know, they just don't ever they don't ever put anything in there at all. Or they're, you know, they're on the road, and they're just busy, and they forget to go back and do it. Right?

Whatever the case is, it's the the time old story of it just happens over and over again, and you cannot get them to do it. It's not their strong suit. So I was doing the transcriptions for myself. So when I could go back and look at leads, I could easily see what was going on with them or how that conversation went. But then I I always am trying to, like, make little automations to improve the lives of everybody on my team so that if it's something that they're repetitively doing, one or that they're repetitively not doing, but that's consistent.

That could just be automated. It was notes. So I was like, okay. So once I figured out how to get the transcriptions out of them, then I started going down the rabbit hole of making these insanely long prompts that, could analyze the calls and, like, pool the sections of the calls into, like, different scoring sections of the prompt, that so when it it would just spit out, like, okay. One, are they interested or not?

Two, was an appointment set? Three, what was their asking price? Were decision makers covered? Like, all those little nuances and details that you'd look at in a sales call. And then once I had that, like, figure figured out, I was like, well, it'd be real nice if other than it just going in the notes, it could actually update all these leads, all the the the specific fields.

So then I started going down that rabbit hole, and then it turned into, okay. Well, now we're summarizing them and sectioning them off and updating, like, if they took the call, if they're interested or not, or if an appointment was booked, like, the appointment would just go in there so they don't take a call on the road because we would have some, like, no shows, and I'd go back. I I would see the text come in, like, where are you? It's 02:00. And I'm like, what happened with this?

Like, how you just blatantly miss with which we know how much we spend on marketing and how expensive those appointments can be to just generate one of them. And I I would listen to the call, be like, he was on the road. He went to another appointment, and it's gone, which I can I can, associate or I can, relate to that because, like, I'm a I'm a, you know, I'm I can be hyper focused, but, like, once something leaves, like, it'll come in my mind and it's just gone or, like, you're in the middle of doing something Uh-huh? It's gone. It's never coming back.

Right? So I I get that that happened. So, so then I started updating all the fields. And then I thought, well, consistently, when when I'm I'm scoring these and and it actually like, they'll consistently miss the same thing. And then over time as they improve that, it it's like they miss something else later.

So, I always loop back to this, Hormozi quote where he says we we need to be reminded more than we need to be taught. Right? So, I started to create take that same transcription structure, whatever summarization, and then turned it into a scoring rubric. So I talked to a bunch of people, looked at, like, you know, what are the the obvious most key points that I'm summarizing in this call, and then how do you score them, how do you weight them. So then I was doing this is a journey of, like, the last I don't know.

It's probably been two years now. And and it's crazy. Like, a lot of the stuff that I had to do before, like, you can little by little, like, reduce those prompts because things have gotten drastically better. Like, every three to six months, it was like a revelation how much better the, LLMs got. But, so I was doing that for a while, and and then I was thinking about it because you're doing sales training, and then I'm listening to, like, the call auditing and and whatnot.

And, again, if you have a sales team, you're managing that sales team. And the main way that you're managing them is obviously making sure they're taking the outbound action daily that they need that they need to take. But, the second one of the most time consuming things is listening to those calls. And if you think about it, you got, you know, three, four people or whatever the case is. Like, they spend all day trying to get on the phone with people.

So there's, like, twenty minutes here, thirty minutes here, whatever. Time is four. It's like, you can't listen to everybody's calls. I'm like, there's gotta be a way to do this with the way that things are trending. So then, I just think it makes, you know, manage self management of the team so much better.

One, for those notes to come back and, two, to create that structure, that scoring rubric that immediately so then I set it up to where immediately when those calls are done, boom, it just sends them out a call review. Like, hey. You did all of these things, but, you know, you missed to ask about ask about decision makers. So then, it just made it easier for the sales guys too. The the the you have inside sales and outside sales.

It made it easier for the outside sales. For those of you who don't know, that's the people sitting in the living rooms, meaningless, sellers, belly to belly. But, that they that was missed before, and it's like, right away, it's like, hey. You missed this, so call them back. Right?

And they get feedback, instant feedback, and then you could take all those breakouts of, like, you know, what was the, points assigned to an a clear intro, setting expectations, next steps, and so forth. And then they could see trends over time of what their overall scores were were on the call and then, like, which sections are dipping or going up or whatever, where they can improve, and then, just compiling all the new dashboard. So it's doing that for a long time. I saw what you were doing, and then we were just having a a conversate, having a few beers. And I was really excited.

I'm, like, thinking about I'm like, this has been awesome for me. Like, I come back to the the CRM. It's like, wow. All the statuses are updated. The asking price is in there.

It's like they didn't have to do any of it. It was just done. And I was just thinking about you on your sales training. You those calls were all you you do call audits. Right?

And you you piece them apart. And I was thinking, like, why not it it would be a great tool for any of the people using it if they could upload their call recordings, say and so so they're not sending you a link being like, what did you think of my call, Steve, or what did you whoever's leading the class. I don't know. But, asking you that feedback, it's like you could analyze thousands of these in, you know, five minutes. You're done.

You know? And it's consistent and structured, and they get the feedback instantly. So that's just what prompted me to do it. I'm like, that would be a probably even more valuable tool for the volume of calls of all the sales teams that you're training. So that's what prompted the conversation.

Steve: But How long did it take for you?

Casey: Oh, man. You know what's funny? It's like it's all a blur, to be honest. Like, I'll, it'll just be, like, late nights of, like, you you you once you get in that, like, deep work state, like, you just start your, like, vibe and you're in the zone, and it's, like, kind of exciting and then things break. And it's I just really like to solve problems over and over and over again.

So it's, like, every step of the way. But I how long was it? Probably I mean, there is iterations month after month after month, but, like, the initial set the hardest part was, like, just figuring out the the the prompt, figuring out the the flow of, like, if this happens, then how do you get the recording to hear? Then how do you download the file? Then how do you find something that transcribes it?

Then how do you, you know, break out the section? So it was just like, I don't know. Maybe it was like a a six month project from beginning to end before it was like, okay. It's operational. And then after that, it was just like countless hours of iteration.

A mechanical engineer? Mechanical. Yeah. So no real, like, code experience or anything. But Then engineering background.

Yes. Engineering background.

Steve: And then the other thing was there's some automation you did. I don't know how much you feel comfortable. But, like Anything. I'm good. We we you know, we're both in CG, Collective Genius.

Right? I've been there since 2020. I don't know when you,

Casey: not the same. Maybe it was shortly after. It was right around COVID.

Steve: Yeah. But, you know, we get to hang out, drink, blah blah blah. Mostly you drink. I'm I'm well behaved. I drink a lot of water.

But, you know, like, there's other stuff that you share, like the the scripting automation where, like, you know, someone lands on a website, they don't check out or whatever it is. They don't fill all the information, and you have a whole automation.

Casey: Yeah. Another rabbit hole. Yeah. Six months of my life going to that.

Steve: Do I share, like, what

Casey: that rabbit hole is? Yeah. So, I mean, whenever you have a web form, and this is actually applicable for any business, and I really think it probably has a better application for, like, ecommerce type businesses or just, like, selling a product. But, you know, like, if you go to Adidas and you put a shoe in your cart, and then before you know it, they're, like, texting you and be like, hey. You forgot something.

You know? Usually, that's if you're logged in. Right? Because those are massive companies. So, in our industry, you have to be real careful because if it's like, they go to our site and then two minutes later, I text them and say, like, hey.

You know? I'm at your front. You know what I mean? It's like super creepy because that's like an intimate thing. It's where you live.

Right?

Steve: So you

Casey: have to be very careful with those kinds of things. But, we found a good flow that's, like, not invasive. Right? It also helps with, like, our existing leads. So we'll see, like, if they click the link from one of our our email campaigns, it's like, boom.

So you know when they're active right then and there and and then tell your salespeople, like, tag them in every thing. So they'll get, like, a text that says, like, hey. So and so is looking, and it's like a lead from three months ago. And when and and over time, you start to just, like, accumulate more and more leads, so you'll have, like, whatever, five, ten, 20,000 active leads in your CRM

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: Over more three and a half years ago. They're still in drip campaigns. You know? So it's basically, it it it doesn't use cookies or if that's part of it. Yeah.

But, it uses, like, your device ID or, like Right. And it, knows that, like, hey. This device ID at one point in time from whatever huge database, I don't know the details of how. I've tried 17 different platforms and found, like, probably two that are pretty consistently accurate. And even then, they're, like, in the 20 to 30% range, but it's still helpful.

Mhmm. But it's nice when you see, like, people identified that search that, you know, sell my hoarder house, whatever the case is, and you know who it is, and they never submitted a web form at all. Like, so what actually prompted me I I started doing that because I was like, this has gotta be a gold mine. Mhmm. You know?

And it turns out it's tougher than that because, like, the accuracy is like, alright. You're already at, like, 20 to 30% best case. Yeah. And then you've gotta find those people's contact information. So it it just keeps narrowing.

Steve: Well, I went down this road myself a while ago, and I couldn't crack it. As far as I got, I got stuck. So I didn't wanna spend much more time on it, but it was like the reverse IP search.

Casey: Yeah. Right?

Steve: It's like, okay. So, like, this person's IP address was on my website. Let's skip trace this guy. Right? Because you can, to some degree, do it.

Mhmm. What I did is, like, well, this was within five miles. Like, this is just completely useless information. Useless.

Casey: Yeah. Right. Because it's like, who's the cell phone towers where they're hitting.

Steve: Right. So I was like, you know, like, this is someone will figure this out and do really well, but this this is not

Casey: Let me know when it's done.

Steve: Yeah. Exactly. So you were able to

Casey: combine the IP thing with those to, like, to help narrow it down to get to that twenty third. Because if you just go raw for those softwares, like, you're at, like, definitely probably sub 5%, like, sub 10% for sure. And then the IP thing enriching it, like, helps bring it up too.

Steve: But Yeah. So you're able to get people using whatever software out there who are showing up your site, don't register. Yep. And you can find out who they are.

Casey: Yes. That sounds illegal when you say it like that. But yeah.

Steve: I don't know if it's illegal, because there's other people that have, tried it. And the difference was, like, they had a much higher accuracy rate, so they couldn't sell it. Right? It's like you can't buy data of people that have, like, exactly a 600 credit score. Right?

Like, you can't Right. That's like that is just, like, too on the nose. Well, you could buy data of these people that probably have a 600 credit score.

Casey: They're yeah. They're probably the six thirteen that you're looking for, but it yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So you can buy data. It's like, hey. Like, give me all the characteristics

Casey: of, of course, on a 600 credit score. Right.

Steve: Right? And you can get that pretty pretty precise. Yep. And just give me those people. Don't give me 600.

Yeah. Because that's illegal. Everyone that looks like a 600. I say 600. 540.

Yeah. Right? I mean, some everyone has a 540 credit score. Someone has, like, got a recent negative ding on their credit, the 540 credit score. But don't give me people that have exactly 540.

Just all the characteristics. Otherwise, you're not in compliance. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, you're kinda like you're not breaking the rules.

You just found a way to get to a point where they visited, you

Casey: can find them. Yeah. And, you know, so I I started doing it, and, there's a lot of time spent in, like, auditing the records because it's like it's real hard to, like, cross reference all this stuff. So, like, you almost just have to spend time, like, okay, this one I'm gonna work on now. I'm like, see where the IP came back, whatever.

And then as you're doing it, you're like, okay, I noticed that trying it's like always this and always that. Like, okay. That's a new rule that I'm gonna put into my little pot over here. And then I just do it again. Like, oh, that's always the same here too.

I'm gonna that's the second rule that I put there. And I just sit there and handwrite the the notes down to do it. But what ignited me was so you have the the ones that never submit anything. Right? And then just leave your site.

Then you have the ones that go to your site, start typing in their information, or it auto populates from their browser. Mhmm. But they never click submit. Like, so that's that that's, Gravity Forms has a thing. It's called partial entries.

Right? So that I that capturing those. And, like, every stage that you go down this rabbit hole, like, they they obviously become a little bit more qualified. So, like, your lowest quality won because of, just data accuracy. Right?

Trying to identify people that just hopped on and left. Then you've got people that started to fill it out and then left. Then you have people that filled out their address, hit submit, but didn't put any contact information. So, like, that's, like, all the stages of the funnel. And what sparked me is, like, shortly after I started doing it, I had one it showed up on both.

So I had one I I I did this crafty thing, like, probably five years ago where I'd, like, scrape, certain obituary sites and whatnot and then try to cross reference to see property owned by those people. Mhmm. And then I would send these incredible handwritten letters that look like I wrote them on my kitchen table, like, one of the pen machines where like I just sit there and do, you know, 10 different A's, you know, capital A's in my hand, like for every letter in the alphabet, you know, and then they have this now they have this font. Right. So that and then it just bounces between all of them to make the letter look so real.

It's insane. And then it pushes the pressure up and down. So, like, there's areas over the pen is, like, lifted up and that it just looks so real anyways. Right. So I did this, the obituary.

I mailed letters out and a guy ends up on our site and he it capture it actually captured and identified him before he even submitted it. Then his browser autofilled his address, and contact information. He never submitted anything at all. So, like, had I never done any of this stuff, that guy would have came to the site and left and never heard of him getting maybe sold to somebody else, may whatever the case is. And it's in a it was in, like, a really good area of Vegas in a nice master plan community, and we ended up making a $150,000 on that assignment fee for a guy that never submitted his information.

You know? Yeah. And when and when we reached out to him, he's like, that's so crazy that you called me because I was definitely thinking about it. Like, that that the sales team didn't necessarily know how it ended up in the CRT CRM, but, like, when I looked at it, I'm like, oh, this is amazing. I'm listening to the call.

So that's that just prompted me to go deeper and deeper down that

Steve: rabbit hole. And people might be wondering, like, what the hell are these two people talking about? Right? Yeah. But titles, like, 6,000,000 in profit with 12, team members.

Casey: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And it's the, what I like about, you and, you know, the all the conversations we have is that you are super tactical. Right? You're strategic and tactical. So, like, we have, you know, again, at Collective Genius, there was one time where we had two presenters.

It was you and Jason Lewis. Okay? And, like, these two guys run two of the most profitable wholesaling companies. And they basically violate this one rule that a lot of people have, which is that they're both the visionary and the integrator. Yep.

Right? Because usually it's like the visionary. Alright, Casey. You do everything. I'm gonna tell us where we're going.

Right? But you do all the work.

Casey: It's like doctor Jackal, mister, what, mister Hyde or whatever. It's like two split personalities, and they're, like, complete they're polar opposites.

Steve: Polar opposites. Right? And then Jason's an individualist like me. Right? So I can totally see it because I can be integrator and visionary.

I can I can, switch gears, but mostly Mavericks, not so much? Right. So you're a Maverick, but still love to get in the weeds. And the things that you like to do, again, that separate you, from what a lot of other people is, like, you wanna, like, figure out how to get in there and, like, game the system.

Casey: Yeah. I like to cut the line. You know? The best way to cut the line. And it usually comes from efficiencies or, like, crafty Yeah.

You know, angles to come And,

Steve: like, there's another person that's like that, is Joe Taylor, but he'll never come on.

Casey: Really?

Steve: He just he just want I don't know. You have to talk to him.

Casey: I love Joe.

Steve: Here. Yeah. He bought a house with me. I was his realtor.

Casey: Right? It's been a while ago. It's been a while. Right?

Steve: I mean, I wasn't showing the houses. Right? It's just my name on the contract. But, anyway, he lives here, refuses to be on the show.

Casey: Really? Joe's got a lot to share. He's the OG, and he's got a lot of knowledge. Probably why he does.

Steve: Maybe. Yeah. But so, like, the two things you guys have in common, like, you guys are both like, how can I get in there and figure out a way that gives me this massive competitive Yep? Where do you think that comes from? If you're a real estate investor with a sales team and you're stuck babysitting reps instead of growing your business, this is for you.

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Casey: Oh, man. I think that I mean, the tactical side of stuff or just the the wanting to to bend the rules or or find a Well, you wanna bend

Steve: you wanna bend the rules because, like, you and me and probably a lot of listeners feel like the rules don't apply to us.

Casey: The rules are for other people.

Steve: Rules are

Casey: for Yeah.

Steve: Rules are great for society.

Casey: Yeah. There's

Steve: not for us. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So not that part.

But where the desire, like, the the gaming, the, like, figure out, like, this next advantage, like, because you're good at

Casey: it. Yeah. Yeah. No. I really enjoy it, and I I think it'd be, fun to apply it to other businesses, which is why, like, I was excited to share that with with you for yours.

I don't know. Maybe it's just how we're built. You know? I just, I I I don't think there's any, like, thing that happened or a reason why. It's just, like, we're built different.

I don't know. We'd I like to do that. I like to to I like puzzles, you know, like mental exercises. So, like, it just seems to be like and a lot of times too, the a lot of this stuff seems obvious. The the hardest part it seems obvious, like, to have these good ideas.

Right?

Steve: Or I

Casey: think everybody has good ideas all the time. I think that that what sets me apart is that I'm actually able to execute on them. Right. You know? And I think that that probably comes from my days through college as an engineer because I never actually took an engineering job.

But, and it's just all problem solving. That's what the entire, you know, five years, four years, whatever is. It's just problem solving. So

Steve: So I'm trying to think of all the different engineers. Right? So there's me, you. Mhmm. Right?

There's Ryan Weimer. That's Jared Vidalis. Yep. I can't say for sure Ryan. Definitely three of us.

We love to find the angle. Find that advantage. The other thing too makes you different than most other, guys doing a lot of, volume is I don't know. A lot of people are still using Podio.

Casey: Yeah. I'm the last man standing pretty much.

Steve: Why are you still using Podio?

Casey: Oh my. Because I've got oh, back in the day, like, I just remember, like, late nights, like, sitting there with, like I'm I'm sure my wife looking over in bed, like, just my face glowing in the computer and, like

Steve: Your laptop in your bed?

Casey: Yes. Yes. I sleep with it. I got a a bed laptop, a work laptop, a car no. But, just late nights, and and you put I've I've put so much.

Like, I probably would be more willing to make the shift had I not one, I know this platform inside and out. And, like, the flaws that it has, like, I can overcome. So I they're not really issues for me. But two, I've got, like, an ecosystem back there. I don't know if you you know, like, you can click on one of the things that shows you all the strings of how everything's all attached in there.

Steve: I never got that deep into audio.

Casey: Well, it's like any software flow. You could see, like, well, this affects that, and this updates that, whatever.

Steve: All of it is

Casey: like a freaking spiderweb of, like, 1,500 different things that interact with, you know, 10,000 different fields, and I'm just in too deep. I'm not yeah. They got me. If they're watching this, they

Steve: So for you to switch, it would be

Casey: Oh, it'd be a nightmare. And I it would the opportunity cost would be insane. Like, everything that I would lose, the time that I and for me, like, more and more as the time has gone on, I'd say for, like, the last four or five years or so, like, my priority has been initially, automations were cool to to optimize things. And then it became like, okay. That's optimized, and that's overoptimized.

And what am I doing here? I need to stop. Like, I have to constantly remind myself. I'm like, if I never did this, would anything change at all in my business? Or if I do accomplish this, like, will it improve for us?

So, like, that's usually how I try to, like, prioritize what things I'm working on. But, it became it it went from from that to, just optimizing to run efficiently. But then it went to, like, I wanted to to still maintain my time, and so I just time blocked for for two weeks, and I'll I'll do this, like, every probably every year. I try to do it more frequently than that, but realistically every year. Spend a couple weeks just time blocking the best that you can, and then look at where you're spending your time, what category does it pull into, and then try to, like, piece those off.

But with the ultimate goal, like, I have a one year old, a three year old, and a four year old. So, like, I don't wanna miss those years. And and I I knew that from the beginning that that was like, that's what this is all about. Like, what's the point of doing any of this if you don't have the freedom to spend that time with your kids? And once they get older, like, let's say 14 or older, those years are gone.

And though, you know, I I know I'll look back and those will be, like, the best years of my life. You'll miss them. The frustrating moments, whatever, you'll crave that. Right? So I've just, I I just wanted to make sure that, I have the time to do that and that, you know, things that could be automated wouldn't slip through the cracks.

Like, if I was taking a week long vacation or if I was never missing a performance or whatever the case was or, you know, when you get home, like, not being, like, a slave to certain tasks that you do repetitively that could be optimized.

Steve: Sound really dumb. Are you saying that you're staying with Podio because the time switched CRMs will take place? That's probably accurate. Yeah. Is that what we're saying?

Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. I've got too much invested in it.

So Yeah.

Steve: Okay. That's fair enough. Is that I

Casey: just want wasn't sure. They just got bought. I'm I'm pretty hopeful. So Oh, yeah? Oh, I didn't see that.

Yeah.

Steve: And then, the other thing too was and going back to AI is that, you and Stephanie Betters did a presentation on the main stage. Right? Where, she was talking about deal signals. You were talking about, what you're doing inside of Podio to answer data enrich your data. Yep.

So which is a newer concept. Right?

Casey: For sure. And I can't believe it's not out. I can't believe that most CRM some CRMs actually do have a good version of that, but I can't believe it's not just innate with them. Like Yeah. A feature that they have.

So what is data enrichment? So, it's funny because when they asked me to do that presentation, I already knew Stephanie. We would talk, occasionally or whatever or when we'd see each other, but, like, I don't remember who paired us up, but they're like, you and Stephanie should do this presentation because you talked about that, and she's doing the exact same thing. I was like, no way. I didn't know anybody else was doing that.

Yeah. So, basically, it's like, again, you you get you start to accumulate these these leads over the the years. And,

Steve: real quick, how many years in the business? My

Casey: first deal was 2013, but I was still in school for two more years. So 2015, I went full time. And then 2018 is when, I went direct to seller, and we can go back to that story later to how that journey started in the beginning. But so 2018 to now is when I So ten years really of Yeah. Of yeah.

Of leads. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay.

So, yeah, that starts that starts to pile off. It pile up. And, like, if you don't have something watching all those to, like, boot out the ones that are like, got sold two years ago, like, I would just see that so often that, like, we've called this person 375 times or whatever the case is over those years. And I'm like, it's been sold for six months or it's been sold for two years. Like, that just infuriated me.

So And you're still calling them? Yeah. And I spent a lot of time, like, auditing to try to, like, prevent or, like, trying to cleanse it manually, like, export a file and put it into here and then bring stuff back, and it was, like, just a pain. And you're you're you're just wasting your team's time that whole peer like, during that. Or if it's, like, listed, you know, I mean, not that those aren't ever deals, but, like, typically, we don't wanna focus on that.

So, I

Steve: mean, like, for

Casey: us, when when I was

Steve: still wholesaling, it would be like, okay. We export solds from the MLS. Mhmm. We have to go into our MLS. Right?

Casey: Yep. That's exactly how I do it too. Right?

Steve: And then you alright. Let's remove all those. So now we've removed our database and making sure that once a quarter, our VAs were exporting from the MLS Yep. Putting up batch leads and updating. At that time, I think we were still using Podio's, whatever that back database or Podio.

Yep. That's what we were doing. So, anyway, same exact thing.

Casey: Yeah. It's so crazy how far things have come. Like, I remember when list stacking software started to come out, and I was, like, buried in Excel sheets and trying to do formulas and whatnot. And, like, then list stacking came out, and I'm like, this is incredible.

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: And now we have AI. It's, like, not even it's like that was kindergarten. It's it's crazy. Yeah. That's cute.

That was cute. But yeah. So the the the enrichment is like, again, a lot of CRMs will bring in, like, property characteristics and stuff. A lot of the times, though, that stuff or, like, last sold dates or whatnot, I don't know how other CRMs are set up necessarily, but, like, I don't know if they're monitoring that ongoing. So that's super important.

And that's just, like, your your key things, like sold. Is it listed? Obviously, square footage and those characteristics aren't changing. But loan balances, are they going up? Are they going down?

You know? Or interest rates, are they going up or down? But so it started with that. Like, I just wanted something that that I could bring in all that data so that we could focus on. Because I had spent a lot of time, like, creating a avatar, like, your ideal what the ideal house or the ideal person looks like, the back end.

And that was more so done on, like, a marketing perspective, you know, for, like, you know, direct mail or whatever. Back in the day when I do a lot of SMS, that's where it all rooted from, is stacking these things to, like, identify the right person and the right property. And then looking at, you know, the past, transactions that you've done, the last deals, contracts, whatever, and, like, which which ones made the most amount of money. So, like, I can say, like, this is a majority of who these people are, but, like, this pool makes me more money than this pool. So, just identifying all that.

But then that was, like, from a marketing perspective and then rolling into your CRM. So you have this five, ten, 15,000 leads in your CRM, and there is so much like you you said, there is so much money and so much you could do in that. And for there's millions of dollars of marketing spent on that. Oh, yeah. And especially in our industry, it's like it's a business of timing and circumstance

Steve: through

Casey: and through. So, like, just because, like, at one at one point in time, 99% of people are asking retail for their house, then something changes, and then that's not the case anymore. You know? So just being able to watch for those changes on all 15,000, like, lie like, hour by hour checks to see if changes in those datasets have happened. So, it I actually did that secondary to the this AI thing, and then AI made it a a a lot easier to, like, one, like, I I almost went deeper into the automations and stuff once AI came out because I'm not a coder.

Like, I can't I mean, I can do, like, little stuff. Like, you know, like, back in the day when you do your Myspace page and and whatnot. Like, think of it like that. Like, I'm editing fonts or whatever. It was a little bit different, but same concept.

That's not like, a big code blocks, like, that's not me. So when AI came out, I could just pay stuff and be like, make it do this instead. Mhmm. And it's like spits it out. I'm like, it worked great.

Right. Before it'd be like two weeks waiting for a developer to change something and Yeah. Messaging with them because they're in a different time zone and blah blah

Steve: blah. I understand.

Casey: Yeah. So it made it, like, so much easier, like, changes on the fly, like, complex things that I never could accomplish before because or even the developers didn't know because, like, a lot of times, you know, like, how your process internally works, and you need x thing to happen. And then as you encounter problems in it, like, it's easier for you to be like, well, we can't do that as a solution because the sales guys don't put notes in, like or whatever. Like, an engineer without, like, merging with, like, how the actual operation works. But Right.

So the the, AI made it great for that. But, basically, it's just all those leads twenty four seven. It is watching them. All of a sudden, they get a notice of default. Boom.

We're notified. All of a sudden, it becomes vacant, and it wasn't vacant before. Boom. We're notified. And, like, it just tells you of those 15,000, like, which ones you wanna be focusing on, like, brings the the cream of the crop to the top.

So yeah. So

Steve: high level, what we're doing here is you got your 15,000 people in your CRM. Mhmm. Anytime there's an update, to someone inside your 15,000, who an event has occurred, something's happened to the property, something's happened to the credit, whatever, now it's pulled to the top. And now your sales guys, know who to talk to.

Casey: Correct. Yep. It just make all of these things little by little, I think are a big part of why we've been able one, having like, you've got a small team. You gotta make sure that every person on that team is a rock star. Like, a plus player, top tier.

Like, they that's what when you're small like that and you're doing volume, everybody's gotta be great. So it just lets them do what they're best at and focus, like, all of that skill on on the task that they're great at. And, otherwise, it's kind of, like, it's kinda chaos. Like, you don't like, the the obvious answer for for them and is at before then is just hit all the new leads, you know, and, like, everything else just gets lost in the weeds, you know, forgotten. So yeah.

It's like a yeah. So that that was really, helpful to just help them remain efficient in what to focus on. And we're to direct, like, our our drip campaigns. Like, if that trigger happens,

Steve: all of a

Casey: sudden, they're fired back up in a drip. You know?

Steve: I got a a message from client yesterday. Like, hey. Like, use deal signals. Use your AI tool. Can we just have deal signals trigger your AI?

I was like, yeah. Of course.

Casey: Yeah. There you go. Small idea, probably big impact.

Steve: Right. Yeah. So what does, how are you doing? So that's a what. But, like, is there a particular data sources that you're using?

Is there something you have to use with Podio? How are you able to constantly

Casey: So there's been, some of the the some products that have came out, that have tried to do this. Stephanie, has it for Salesforce. Right? But, like, going through this process myself too, like, I wanna control over, like, what the data source was because I would see some of the the one that that, came out with it at the time, I would see some inaccuracies. Like, it would think things are sold when they're not, or it wouldn't recognize that something was listed when it was or whatever the case is.

A lot of, like or mortgage balances are, like, way higher than they they're doubled or whatever the case is. So then I went through a bunch of different ones, but, like, all of them at the end of the day are, like, funnel back to the major data providers, which is, like, First American, Black Knight, CoreLogic, like and and whatnot. So, I wanted to have the control over what dataset was being used. And you just do that with, like, basically webhooks. It's like, you know, think of it like Podio's emailing CoreLogic with an address, and then CoreLogic is emailing it back.

But with, like, structure, you know, like, address equals this, name equals this, what a parcel number equals that. That's for everybody else. Like, that's how the systems communicate. But it'll bring back, like, additional data points that weren't already in the CRM. So you're pulling in from the major data providers?

No. I would get to I don't go get contracts with them directly. Like, I'm not in that business. So I think

Steve: it's a lot. Yeah. Expensive.

Casey: Yeah. I'll use I'll know. Yeah.

Steve: You have

Casey: to have massive contracts. Like, I don't have a software service for that. So it'd be like you you would just get plugged in with, like, batch leads or property rate or a prop stream or any of those types of softwares, and then they have APIs or webhooks that will communicate back and forth with your CRM. Yeah.

Steve: But you built that all

Casey: out. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had a developer that was, like, could do it, but they were just so slow and it's driving me crazy.

And, like, I'm I'm just again, if I don't do something right then and there is gone. So, like and and when I get, like, interested in something, it's, like, exciting to to solve those problems and get it up and running right away.

Steve: But, obviously, it's been valuable.

Casey: Yes. For sure. Yeah. For sure.

Steve: And, again, like, you know, we're talking about here is how to be insanely profitable with a small company. Because, like, there's all these different ways to run a business, but you've always chosen to stay leaner. So, like, as long as I've known going back a long, long time, you've always wanted to run leaner because you wanna be able to basically do whatever

Casey: you want whenever you want it. Yeah. Right? The more people you have, the more management, the it just gets complicated. Right.

Steve: Obligations, responsibilities is less. Yes. So, I mean, when I heard earlier twelve, I was like, dang. Like, his team blew up. Blew up.

Casey: Yeah. We grew, like, 30%, three people.

Steve: Yeah. Because, like, I think in the past, it's always, like, you and, like, four. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

So, like, to run again in a insanely profitable business, like, you have to do things that, are not necessarily intuitive, not necessarily mainstream, and then you have to get your hands dirty to really get the solution that you want.

Casey: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, again, because, like, the the like, you to go back what you said, the integrate and, integrator versus visionary thing, those are two very separate people.

And that probably is like my unique ability is that like those like to be able to have like the integration part of executing on stuff, but still have the vision of like this would be a great idea to do X, Y and Z as as that process is happening versus like the handoff of, like, you know, a visionary to an integrator saying, like, hey, let's try to do this. You know, first off, most of the time, the visionary is probably gonna be missing many of the details or not understand how the execution has to happen. So, like, what's nice for me is, like, as I'm going along, like, that visionary is still there. Like, it's like the two the angel and the devil on my shoulder. Which one's the The angel's the integrator.

For sure. You know what's funny is to my p like, my profile is like a straight harsh line across. Like, it does not look like I should be doing any of the stuff that I'm doing.

Steve: Yeah. Well, because, like so I kinda go back, to what I was talking about earlier. So, like, again, I brought you, when I brought you in, my team's like, Casey Ryan. Like, who do we know? Like, what are we known from?

Right? So, every webinar I've done, and I've done about a webinar every month, right, since March. And I always said the same three things. Right? Like, Stephanie Butters says, hey.

You know, you need to create this AI tool for everybody because, like, you're the sales guy. You and your sales guys, like, might as well just make the be the AI, sales guy. Brad Chandler is like, hey. I really need your help. Can you do this for me?

You know? Like, we need some role play boss score guys, make sure they're ready for, like, the real leads that cost me $400 in employment. Right? I don't wanna just send someone out. Like, I need to qualify them.

So, like, can you create a tool? Again, I want this to be faster, and then tell me when they're ready. Yep. Right?

Casey: That's another beautiful part about that is that, I never really knew the answer to, like, if you brought somebody new on, like, how long before you start let them touch your thousand dollar leads or whatever it is. It's like now you just have them do those calls until they start getting a consistent score above, like, 80% or 75%, whatever the case is. Like, now you're like, I think they're ready.

Steve: You know?

Casey: They got yeah.

Steve: And our clients are are using it for that specific purpose now, which is cool. And then the third person was you. Right? It was the third day. We're all hanging by the pool, kinda hot in Dallas.

But hanging by the pool, you're like, hey. Like, you should do this thing, you know, that you've been working on, but, like, hey. I've been doing it for myself, but you should do it for everybody. Yeah. And it was that where I came back to the team.

I was like, hey. Like, three different people at CGs is I need to do this. The tribe has spoken. I think we have to do it. So unless you guys all, like, think this is a terrible idea, this direction we're going, and we did it.

And the thing I'm incredibly grateful for, like, Ian, he's been working on AI for, like, the last two years prior to our conversation. I always thought it was a waste of time. Right? But once we had this idea, okay. I guess we're doing it.

Hey, Ian. Like, that thing that I said was a waste of time. Like, that's me.

Casey: I have this great idea here. You know? You you bet.

Steve: So we took this bot, but we ran with it. But what I'm really grateful is that I can also be visionary and integrator. Yep. Right. So I just took it from March to where we are today, but, like, I built out the whole thing.

Now I'm not gonna sit here as, like, a work of, like,

Casey: engineering beauty. It's just like podium on the back. It's Frankenstein. It's Frankenstein.

Steve: And And now my brother is making it taping superglue. Yeah. It looks a lot better now because my brother's now my brother's here. We have a real engineer.

Casey: Okay. On guys.

Steve: But we're able to build all out, and I'm really grateful again, like, to be able to be the and integrator. Right? It's a, it is a competitive for sure. And then, anything I missed there as far as the, enrichment component?

Casey: Only one other. So, like, I'll just go as one a little bit set because I I I broke that out into, basically three sections. So once you have the information coming back in, obviously, you can just say, like, hey. If foreclosure comes back, then, you know, initiate this action, like or tell somebody to call it or send them a text message, whatever. But a lot of this stuff, like, you've got to pair, you know, situation with the data points that you've been given.

So, like, example, like, I I split it into the three parts. So, like, one is the the score of, like, the the motivation of the seller themselves. Then two is the score of the property, like, as a core, like, we were talking about earlier is you've got your property avatar and you've got your seller avatar. Like, which like, what's the demographic of the person or situation that is, you know, best suited for your business? And what's the property that typically is, most profitable or best suited for your business?

So determining two scores, like, in the person situation, like the like you said, the six fifty credit scores thing. Like, I'm actually not pulling in credit scores for people. But, I'm I'm looking at, the the conversations that are had because, like, on the surface level, you know, we've all probably had those deals that are like, you know, a five year old house. It's like a newer build. There's not a whole lot wrong with it.

And they still end up selling at a discount because of x, y and z reason. Right. And on the surface, if you just look at the property, it's not a fit. And or you have ones that are, you know, the sellers are not showing their cards, right? Like the condition of the house or, the age of it.

Like they say it needs no repairs. It's all original from like 1962, like whatever the case is. So like blending those determining a score based on that, AI was very helpful in just like helping me, giving it a bunch of properties and characteristics and be like, these ones made these properties made this much for us each. And it's like, okay, well, then it just looks at all the data. I'm like, I don't you don't need a diet data scientist anymore.

You just dump it all in there. It's like, let me know what you think, you know? And it spits out like, this is your best suited. I'm like, okay, great. Well, I wanted to make a score based on this, this, this, the square footage.

How long ago did they buy it? You know, how much equity do they have? Whatever. Make me a rubric. So, like, just iteration after iteration, then you get a good scoring model there.

And then same thing with the transcriptions. Right? It's like they said x, y, and z keyword triggered it to say, like, if they say what whatever the case is, that you build a score, like, the scoring that you're getting back based on their motivation, pairing those. And then the third aspect of it that we added is, basically is physical scoring of the property. So we just take the Google Street View and the Google aerial of it, and we got, like, an image modeling, thing in between.

And basically what that, allows it to do is look and see, is there an empty pool? Is the roof just hatted? Is it boarded up? Are there is there a, you know, an old junker car in the front lawn? Or is landscape all overgrown?

All of those little factors. So I just take all three of those scores. Obviously, before you talk to them, you only have two of them. So the score is determined then. And then if they talk to them and let's say that it doesn't have any physical thing, the property isn't really a fit, but they need to sell tomorrow because whatever, they're going back home and they're terminally ill, whatever the case is.

Like, that would raise the score up. So, like, I just blend those three things together.

Steve: You really nerd it out. Oh, the

Casey: It's just like, what does the property look like? What's somebody going through? And is is the is it an old house and they have equity? Like, blend all those together and tell me which ones to focus on.

Steve: But the part about, like, the image, like, I hadn't heard that before is pretty cool.

Casey: Yeah. So So when they come in, they get that score off the bat. Yeah.

Steve: The and we're talking about you kinda, like, turn on machine learning Yeah. Inside your own CRM. And, you know, like, I had a chance I remember Chris Richter. He spoke, again, SCG. Right?

Founder of Audantic. One of the most expensive lists, but also, like, one of the most profitable lists.

Casey: That guy's a genius, and he's hilarious. Yeah.

Steve: I remember he said this kinda like, what's the word I'm looking for? I wanna say you let it slip. We kinda said it jokingly, but, like, I believed him. Or it's like, you know, like, the two most important data points in every homeowner where you're buying for distress is that they, play the lottery after work on Fridays, and they smoke cigarettes. And he said that.

I was like, probably true.

Casey: It is. Yeah. It's like, I think from him too, I always got the analogy when I try to explain to people what, like, propensity scoring is or just data aggregation is like, does Johnny buy the organic apple or the tall boy at seven Eleven? Like, I will miss her tall boy.

Steve: Exactly. Exactly. And then, maybe just to kinda wrap it up. From what I'm hearing is that you're pulling data from all these different places, which is not new information. No.

Difference is you're looking at that data and then see how it correlates to the people inside your CRM, and that tells a story. And, this is where, again, I heard you guys say it on stage. It's basically, you turn your your CRM, which is basically kinda like this thing. You're like a living organism

Casey: Yep.

Steve: That's constantly providing fruit.

Casey: Yeah. And, I mean, if you think about it too, it's like, if you your only job was to just dig through your CRM and look at old notes and look at activity and look at properties that look beat up or whatever, like, and there was 10 of you doing it, like, you'd probably come up with some deals here and there that were old leads. Like, this is looking at, like, all 15,000 at the exact same time in milliseconds and, like, pairing it all together with, like, it's just it's just insane. So it is the future for sure.

Steve: You turn on Skynet, really.

Casey: Yeah. You're like, you discovered the Internet. That's how it feels. Yeah.

Steve: You're the reason why we're all gonna get killed by Skynet. And then anything else as far as AI anything you've seen interesting innovation that we're gonna be seeing in in our industry or in general?

Casey: You know, I mean, it's it's, every every month, I feel like it's getting drastically better, but the voice agents, right, they're just it's it's insane how far they're coming. Like, I didn't implement it in the beginning. And after doing all these other projects, I realized what a heavy lift that actually is.

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: Right? To to get something that that can interact, like, instantly with people and the tonality and every like, it's a very tough thing to do, but, like, I think in a few years from now, it'll just be, like, a 100%, like, interacting with a person. Like, the best one that I've seen so far the best, like, voice interact is is when you talk to GPT. You know? Like, that like, what's her name?

Shimmer or you know what I'm that's a that's a it's a stripper namer. But she the her interactions are so good. Like, her pauses, like, the little nuances of Yeah. How she interacts in her voice. Like, there it's, like, instant perfect answer and, like, the umms and the buts is, like, very, very, very human.

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: I have it like, once all that is worked out, like, being able to implement a shimmer to be able to call your customers and whatnot or text back and forth with them where you're not waiting for the human interaction Mhmm. Is it's just gonna be a game changer. Well, I

Steve: think we're already there.

Casey: We are, but I I think that, like, it's gonna get drastically better over the next year.

Steve: It's gonna get better. I mean, the biggest thing so, like, from what I've seen, and I'm obviously paying a lot of attention.

Casey: Yeah. You're in that space. Right? I jump back in and out every so often.

Steve: But, like, I think this is the year where, like, everyone that doesn't opt in or doesn't decide to add AI to their business, I think this is the last year of your own business. Like, it's like, listen to what you just said. Right? You're pulling Google image photos, roof, empty pool or not. Right?

Like, how do you compete it?

Casey: I don't yeah. I don't it's fun. Yeah. I think for a long time, you could get away with it because I would see, like, other businesses that have been established for, like, thirty years and smaller businesses, whatnot. But, like, they're they're still, like, filling out invoices and putting things in in paper files and, like, they just keep rolling like that.

It's like, that's just how we do it. You know? We're always

Steve: It's always been done this way. We're gonna

Casey: always do it this way. But in our industry, it's, like, ultra competitive. Like, they're you're gonna get left behind, and things are margins are tightening and tightening and tightening. Yeah. Especially with regulations, everything else.

Yeah.

Steve: I I was listening to the podcast, and I heard Elon Musk say this. And he said it is obvious, but I never thought about it till recently or until he said it. A computer used to be a job title for a person. Right? Really?

Yeah. Like, the interest rates. Like, hey. Like, Casey, what is the mortgage, payment gonna be for this many year mortgage at this interest rate, right, for this price? Go calculate it.

And then they'd be back there. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that was an actual job title. Right?

And so, like, now, you know, a spreadsheet, obviously, eliminated that guy. Right. But then there's just more and more things where we're, like, kinda condensing what are available jobs. So I

Casey: think it you know? And I I mean, I know that some jobs you could definitely argue are gonna be eliminated. But at the same time too, I think the progress that's gonna happen over the next couple decades with these tools. So, like, just like how we have a small team whose efforts is is focused and amplified

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: Like, that that effect on the, like, productivity of people that are in the workplace, like, is going to explode.

Steve: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So then, transition to the next part. So we're talking about, like, all the tech advantage, but it's not just the tech. Right?

You also have amazing people. Yes. So talk about that. Because, again, before, you're like, I don't wanna manage people.

Casey: Yeah. I mean, I still feel that way too. So But you're managing more people now.

Steve: Yeah. So talk about, like, how you're able to build this up, and build it up. Not just build it up, increase it, but also build it up well. Because, hiring is, like, the hardest thing to get right. Yep.

But when you get it right, it makes life so much better.

Casey: Yeah. And once you can crack that code, I mean, the sky's the limit. Like, yeah, I I feel like that's probably the most valuable skill that you can have in business is is being able to hire effectively and identify, like, having a good picker, like, finding good people and identifying who they are and and being able to paint division where they want to come on board with you and then treating them right over a long period of time so that they wanna stay with you. But, yeah, because you could have, like, all the best systems in the world. You could have all the fancy AI, this or that or whatever.

And if you got a shitty team, it doesn't matter. You could have the best marketing. It doesn't matter. You know? And at the end of the day, especially in our industry, it's tough, when because, you know, a lot of, like, a lot of the transition is coming from boomers.

Right? Trans like, that is a good transition of wealth, and that's gonna come from a majority of people hold their wealth in their their home. Right? So, those types of people want to stare you in the eyes and shake your hand.

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: So, like, that that, having those types of people, our industry, again, it like, you can't go and grab the best car sales guy at the lot and say, you know, he's the this guy is the best record setter, hall of famer, car sales guy. Drop into our industry and watch him fall on his face. Like Right. That does not work. You need people that, like, are genuinely good people that connect.

And we're, like, in an industry too that you can take it like, people can be taken advantage of. So you have to make sure that the people that are representing you, your business, going out and doing this in the world are, like, are are, you know, helping people in the right way, you know, not taking so you're looking for, like, this unicorn type of human being that's like an incredible like there's there's so many boxes that they have to check-in order to be effective, you know? So it's really, really, really tough. So, like, we could if I didn't have those people on my team utilizing all this stuff, it would all be worthless. So So how

Steve: do you identify who to bring into the company?

Casey: I'm still working on that. I that I would say, like, the last probably year and a half, I've probably spent, like, a lot of time trying to improve because it's a skill that you have to develop. Mhmm. It's it's having, like, a good process where you're not, you know, weeding out to have or filtering out to heavily where you're missing out on people. But, typically those people I found by referrals, like I've probably had three.

Yeah. Like three good hires over the years that were just like strangers to me, you know? But like, typically, if it's if I call Steve and I like Steve and he's like, Oh, yeah, I know this guy I used to work with over here, and he's a great dude. Like, that's that's going to be your best hire, typically. I've tried to be intentional about, going through your phone book and and keeping a list of people that you know are you know, have traits for maybe certain roles that you like, whether it's, like, they're charismatic or whether they're, you know, a very a creative thinker or whatever their their talent is and and keeping a little Rolodex to that and then trying to keep in touch with them for which from CG, we had the founder the founder of, Byte, which is like the Invisalign retainer type things.

And then the founder, the cofounder of Zillow, I forget with Spencer, is his name, whatever. So that that was a tip that he said. I'm like, that seems so obvious. And then he basically treats that list like his seller leads or whatever. He he follows up of them, like, very organically, but like quarterly or, every other quarter, whatever, just staying in touch with them.

So that one, when he goes and does the next thing or is looking for that next person, that per that person is on his radar, a, or somebody that they know he's able to to get because he's still in touch with them. And then in addition to it, I have one other point there. I lost it.

Steve: Well, I remember even, like, last month, we were hanging out in San Diego. Jacob Mullins is like Mhmm. Hey. A buddy of mine lives in Vegas. You need to hire him.

And he would not leave you alone until you guys got on a group text. So we're talking this is, like I think we're at, like, 12:30, 01:00 in the morning. Yeah. Which is, like is it same time in in Vegas? California and Vegas.

Casey: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The World Pacific. Right?

Yep.

Steve: Yeah. So you're texting this guy at 12:30 morning. I think he responded.

Casey: He responded like that. Yeah. And he's followed up. He actually texted me today. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm like, this guy follows up. So.

Steve: Right. So referrals is really the best referrals.

Casey: Yeah. It's his the best. And then a lot of these people, this is what I was going to say, is that a lot of these people, the real winners, they have jobs. Like, talented people are not sitting around unemployed. That's the reality of it.

So, like, a lot of times you have to, like, stay in people's ears or, like, it's a long process because you you don't want somebody that is just willing to be like, alright. I'm jumping ship. Right? Or maybe something changes of their job and there's an opportunity to get them, but, like, you gotta be in front of them for that to happen.

Steve: Yeah. So, Craigslist is not the way to

Casey: go. No. I was back page when it was around. That was a damn.

Steve: And then, you said something to me earlier that I was surprised to hear, which is you're now selling your assets Yeah. In Oklahoma City. Because, like, you were buying a lot of assets in Oklahoma City. Yep. I think when we were, getting to know each other better.

Casey: Yeah. Yeah. I bought a lot of single family houses in a short period of time. I think it was, like, 16, and they they were one by one by one. So, like, from a wholesaler, like, it it wasn't like, hey.

A batch of 20. So one by one, underwriting everyone, making offers on everyone, but it was sixteen months, and I think I bought roughly a 120 single family. Mhmm. And then I bought, two apartment complexes and then a storage deal. And my office building was around that same time.

All of it was driven by, you know, the tax advantages, and the tax bills I was getting. So I wanted to be able to write it off. But, like, I just have realized over the years, like, it's not all the glory that it seems to be, like, the the rental properties. It's not it's not the glory? No.

Not well, not for me anyways.

Steve: I mean, there was a book about it. You know, A Reshadow Poor Death. It says, like, this is the this is the way.

Casey: Yeah. Well, I I don't know. Different environment, different time. I'm not sure. Or maybe I just don't have it figured out.

Steve: But So what what is it about it that's the the where the shine has kinda, like, faded?

Casey: Well, they don't make a lot of money or they lose money. Mhmm. You'll you know, if you if you have a rent you you have a good stand of two years, you rent it out, and then a tenant just decides to wreck all the brand new cabinets, then there goes, you know, $8.10, $12,000 every single time it turns. Like, if the cash flow is only a couple $100 a month, it's like, it's just not worth well, especially not out of state, I would say Mhmm. Or maybe the wrong property manager.

I don't know. The answer is I don't wanna figure it out. I'd rather just find other ways to, lessen my tax burden, and try to make more money if I do have to pay taxes, whatever, and then just remove that distraction and headache from my life.

Steve: Yeah. So I don't have a lot of rental properties, but the few we have, they're paid off.

Casey: Right? That's good. Then then you have cash flow.

Steve: Well, that's the thing, though. It's like, we're not cash flowing what I would expect. Right? I was like, I would expect to have this much in the bank account end of the year. I was like, we don't.

Right. Like, there's always something breaking

Casey: nonstop. Yeah. And I I've seen a lot of people that have figured it out. It's just not me. And then and it's so boring to me.

Like, I I just don't want to focus on it.

Steve: I mean, there's a couple different things. A, I remember, we were having a a dinner or lunch, whatever it was round tables. Me, Medley. I can't remember who else it was. But, everyone's talking about their tax strategies, how to save money, this and that.

Right? And Jason's like, he's been around he's been around the block for a while. Yep. Right. He's like, you guys are doing it all wrong.

Really? What are you talking about? He was saying, well, I appreciate we're not wanting to pay taxes, but that's just the cost of the game. And the, all these things you guys are doing is just taking time away from what you're really good at Great. Which is making money.

Yep. So he said that. I was like, that's an interesting take. He is older than me. He has seen more.

Maybe he knows what he's talking about.

Casey: Right. I try to sit there with an open air all the time. And if if you would have rewound three years ago, I got lucky too because I bought them all in, like, 2020, mostly in early twenty one. And, obviously, the market has done what it's done since then. So I had good equity to to help me get out alive on them.

But, yeah, like, I the the a lot of those little sent sentiments of wisdom, like, at the time, like, I'm not doing that. I'm I'm I'm not paying taxes. I'm just gonna do what I was gonna do anyways. But in retrospect, I'm like, he's right. I should just I should just park all that money in the s and p 500, and that would have been good.

Steve: Well, the other thing too. So, back in 2019, this is where we first met. Right? So, this is back when I was still doing wholesaling coaching. Right?

I was doing events and this and that. And we had we had something we threw together, and it was, like, I was I was friends with Ryan Pineda already. Mhmm. Everybody's like, you gotta meet my friend, Casey Ryan. Alright.

So you were there. Carlos Reyes, Jesse Borrell, Evo, Pace, Jamil, Brent Daniels, Rafael Cortez. Right? Like, we're all hanging out. Yep.

And we're just it's a mastermind. And then, Stratton Brown. Like, also that guy was there. Yep. Right?

But then we also had Matt Larson there. And I remember specifically in that mastermind, he said the same exact thing. He's like, I've got 250 properties, and it's a pain in my ass, and I'm gonna start selling. I was like, Matt, what are you talking about? Like, this is the dream.

Right? He because he had hundreds. I can't remember how many hundreds, but it was hundreds. Do you

Casey: know what's funny is is that him saying that had, like, been a a doubt in the back of my mind the whole time I was doing it. Yeah. Like, this guy's done it, and he's saying don't. And he probably bought them deeper than I did at a better time than I did. Yeah.

And he's saying don't.

Steve: Oh, and he was it was a Quad Cities, I think is what they call it.

Casey: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Like, they're cash flowing. Right? Midwest. They cash flow.

Right. But he's like, yeah. Like, it's not everything is cracked up to be. Right. And you just keep thinking, like, how can

Casey: be. Yeah. And for, like, like, for most people too, like, I do think it's a great vehicle to ride the appreciation if you're in appreciating market. If you're in a market that is not like that, like, what is $200 a month gonna do for you? Nothing.

And in addition to that, like, it usually doesn't end up being that because the second water heater goes out, there's a thousand bucks. Mhmm. So what? Then there goes five months of cash flow. Right?

Or then they're vacant. Like, you gotta account for all of these things. And it just especially now with the way the interest rates are. Like, my rate that that was the other tough part is, like, my rates on a lot of these are 3.75, 3.9, four and a quarter, like, in that range, and I'm still having a tough time ever getting them to cash flow. Mhmm.

So and I know it's like, alright. Be patient. Wait thirty years. It'll be paid off. I'm like, I'm done.

I don't care.

Steve: Yeah. Well, even, I remember Brent Daniels came on here, I think it was last year, beginning of last year. Because he was talking about, like, rental properties are overrated. I was like, Brent, you can't just say these things. Right?

Like, come on the show. Let's let's have a debate about it. And that was kind of his point. He was like, yeah. You wanna buy properties in the Midwest and whatever.

But, like, if it's not appreciated, you're playing the wrong game. Right? Like Yep. You gotta buy something that's gonna appreciate. And if you can, like, cash flow or breakeven, like, that's great.

But you gotta play the appreciation game environment.

Casey: 100%.

Steve: Not a cash flow game because the cash flow game is not is not it.

Casey: No. And the the the chunk of rentals that I bought, I had I had about 15 in Vegas, and then the rest were in Oklahoma. I made more money on those 15 than I did on all 120 in Oklahoma. And if you look at it, too, especially if you're in an appreciating market, like one thing I think that people overlook is, like, you've gotta look over time what your return on the equity that you have in those properties is. Because, like, if you've got I know you have to pay taxes and blah blah blah.

The good news, a, is that recaptures at 25% instead of whatever your ordinary tax rate is.

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: Depends for people. But, you gotta recap. But if you've got, you know, a couple 100,000 sitting in there, you're like, well, I paid this. I have this much. You know, I put a down payment of 20, and then I refinanced it.

I got $0. It's like you've got $200 in equity sitting in there for three hundred grand or $300 a month. Like, that's not a good return on your money. Market an s and p 500, pay your taxes, and you're gonna be better off. You don't have to think about anything at all.

Right. No tenants, no houses burning down on tornadoes, and people getting shot in them. It's like

Steve: a lot of that? Okay. See?

Casey: About all of the above. Yeah. Yeah. No tornadoes, actually. Yeah.

But I have had roofs torn off and whatnot.

Steve: So there's some some trauma there as well. We're gonna talk we're gonna have a therapy session after this. Disruptors, after hours. Another thing that, you brought down, which is interesting, is don't risk the empire for

Casey: a point of gold. That's an interesting concept. Yeah. I I think I was just reminded of it over and over and over again. I think that, my real, real superpower is, like, so many people get, like, the the AI stuff you could argue is definitely a shiny object, but it's almost one of those things that you're gonna get left behind.

And it open unlocks doors for efficiencies that give you back your time. So for me, it was worth the distraction. But in general, I stay very, very focused on what I'm doing. Rentals was, I guess, a deviation to an extent, but, like, I'm not going around like and people are like, why don't you do Airbnb? It's like, because I don't do that.

I'm not doing that. Why don't you do whatever leasebacks or this or that, whatever creative new strategy that I'm like, I'm not doing any of that. I'm sticking to what we do great and doing it over and over and over again and trying to get better at that. And that is why we've been able to corner the the Vegas markets ultra, ultra competitive

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: Because we we have a rock star team of people, and we stay super focused on what we're best at. So when I say don't risk the empire for a pot of gold, it's like, I just watch people. Like, oh, I'm gonna have, you know, this business and that business and whatever. Like and maybe it works for some people. Mhmm.

And some people are serial entrepreneurs or whatever the case is, but, you know, you've just seen the people that are the wealthiest in life typically focused on one business and focused on that one thing. Yeah. You know? So that's what I mean by don't risk the empire for a pot of gold. It seems shiny, but there's strings attached for sure.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, can you think of any instances? No names, necessarily, but, like, things or even even, like, trends you notice where people are, like, doing this quite a bit inside of our industry. Are they chasing this chasing that? I mean, the one I hear all the time, and I feel like I'm, like, the best, what's the one I'm looking for?

It's not AA. Right? But it's like like, brokerage owner anonymous. Right? It's like, I I'll I'll be at, like, CG.

I'll be a boardroom or someone else.

Casey: Like, I'm gonna start a brokerage. It's like, well, hang on. Right. Oh, man. Yeah.

Don't do that. I was trying to think of, like, a, like, more recent thing. But, yeah, that's that's when it comes up over and over again, and I'm just laughing. I'm like, why would you wanna do that? Yeah.

Even if there is some model somewhere where you can make money on that, like, it just becomes the to me, what seems like the most horrendous business you could ever have, which is managing a bunch of people. Like, the more people you have, the more time suck it is. They're calling you this, that, and more liability that they're pouring on to you. And and they're like the like, I feel like when people make transitions in their life, and they're like, oh, I got let go of this or, oh, like, I'm at least in Vegas, it's like, you know, once their career expires as a pool cocktail waitress, whatever, they're like, I'm gonna get my real estate license. Like, or other people, they're like, I'm an entrepreneur.

I'm going to go be a real estate agent. Like, so you're dealing with like these like a lot of times there's certain type of people. There's a reason that, you know, the top 5% are like why the top probably 1% of agents do 85% of the business. It's like, because that's the cream of the crop people that got their stuff together. But the majority of the time, you don't get to manage those people.

Like, it's all these people in between, and it's just like a huge time suck. And that model is changing where, like, there's splits on commissions and stuff. Like, little by little, that's that's dwindling away too. Like, I don't know anybody that really has a setup like that.

Steve: So you're in a kind of a unique position where you're in CG CEO. Right? So we have, there's Elevate, Select Premier, and then CEO.

Casey: Mhmm.

Steve: So, I mean, are there, like we were to extrapolate this this lesson here about, you know, don't risk an empire for pot of gold. Are you finding that people inside the CEO really just do one thing?

Casey: For sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And and I the I I'd say also the common trend in that room, which, again, I love the tactical stuff, and I miss premier for that because, like, you've got the hustlers, you've got new ideas, and, you know, I like to listen to them, and they're exciting. But I or maybe I'll take a tidbit of, like, this and apply it to something else I'm doing that's that's valuable.

I like the tactical stuff. I like execution. So there's a lot of value for me in that room, but, like, I knew the next chapter of my life is, like, the time and getting back the time. And more importantly, it's just, like, elevating yourself, like, because your organization's bottleneck is always gonna be you. And when you're you're the bottleneck, like, the the the main thing that you can level up is your leadership skills, your ability to hire.

Like so the the trend that I just see in that room is, like, all of those guys are seasoned vets Or the ones that and the ones that have they're all they've all been in the the industry for a while. They're just a really solid core of of guys that have gotten to that next level because they themselves have became better people, like, just as a human being, but learn the skills of leadership, learn the skills of hiring, learn the skills of delegation and management and, like, all these things that those are the skills that the tactical stuff is fun. It is you could apply it to a lot of different businesses down the road if if I didn't do this, which that's not my plan. But, like, those are the skills that, like, allow you to to build and run a business

Steve: Mhmm.

Casey: That doesn't you're not a slave to, that you just so that's why I was really excited to to go up to that level. And it's just a good core group of guys because you don't get to that level. You don't, build a team like that and become a leader like that unless you're, like, a real solid human being at your core.

Steve: You know? And so then are you taking those lessons? Like, how how are you applying those lessons right now?

Casey: I mean, I'm just doing it it it it's tough in the sense that I I would say that, for the the people that are in that group that are in our business, because there's some some people in other asset or other assets of real estate. There's people in there that are, you know, asset manager, like, financial advisors and whatnot and have tons of assets under management that are investing in the market. Like, so there's a good broad spectrum, but all these guys are wise beyond my years. You know, it's fine that they all constantly remind me that, because I'm a bit younger than them to don't miss your time with your kids. So, like, it's nice to have that that reminder, but, like, they're just they're they're holding me accountable and pouring into me.

But the the big difference, I think, what other than the the experience that I that they have that I don't is that my team is much smaller than theirs, and I'm still very heavily involved. And I don't necessarily have, like, immediate plans in the future to try to exit or, like, replace myself in it. Like, I like what I do. I enjoy the business. I I love everybody on my team.

I like to go to the office and interact with them all the time where a lot of them are like, they don't need to be there ever. And I don't necessarily need to. I can I I'm blessed enough to where I can travel for I can go on vacation for a week, two weeks, probably longer, and everything still goes just as planned? So I've got a good setup right now, but, yeah, I've tried to take the the the skills that they teach me as far as, like, operationally and whatnot to implement them. But it's, like, little by little because I'm not gonna go higher, you know, double, triple my team so that we can Yeah.

Scale. I guess that's not my plan.

Steve: You have even if you're not trying to, hire in double or triple, you have maybe nine twenty six or maybe 27 person that can do, like, 89% of what you do. I know that you don't want you don't need to come in and you enjoy coming in. But do you foresee that happening for you?

Casey: I've been chipping away at the stuff that I I shouldn't be doing. So, like, finding, you know, somebody who's really good at some type of development or finding somebody who's really good at whatever whatever I'm doing on a consistent basis, like, trying to begin to, like, delegate off those tasks and pour into the the the next person. Like, I just elevated somebody on my team, who is our closing coordinator, and now she's helping with, like, so many, like, loose ends that either one, I do consistently that I need help with that I can't do as effectively because I'm too busy or or two, that, just get completely neglected like my Oklahoma portfolio. So, like, tying up all those loose ends and, like, getting things right and putting eyes on it. Like, so, I'm just, like, little by little trying to, like, piece off these chunks of time suck of things that, like, one, I notice I procrastinate because I don't like to do it, and I don't really procrastinate much unless I hate doing it.

So I'm just trying to chunk those things off little by little and find a good person to fit

Steve: for it. What is your primary? Because you mentioned earlier you're doing really well in Vegas. Feel like you've got a pretty good hold of it. What are you doing for marketing right now in Vegas?

Casey: I mean, it's it's it's a little bit of all it's a lot of bit of all of it. So it's direct mail SEO. We're getting ready to fire, TV backup, and then paper lead providers and stuff, which I'm probably gonna begin transitioning away from.

Steve: Are you gonna be famous in Vegas? I guess. We'll see.

Casey: I don't really wanna be, but I feel like it has to be me.

Steve: I remember, again, going back, you know, with Pineda having dinner with him. And, like, it was just weird how we're, like, we're having dinner and, like, the servers were, like, so excited to see him. And they're like, this is the dessert you want for, Instagram. It was just like it was obvious that they had an agenda because they knew it influenced.

Casey: Right. That's correct. You. I I mean, if it was up to me, I'd rather just be in the shadows and and make money and never, but, I do think that that's, you know, the I think that's the the play for, like, stability long term is, like, having that brand recognition. I think it uplifts the the rest of your marketing channels.

Steve: So Especially, direct mail.

Casey: Yeah. Direct mail and PPC too. Like or all of it. Like yeah. Just uplifts all of it.

So I and and it's it's kind of a I don't wanna say untapped channel. But for us, like, we've done it before, but I did it at the worst possible time, which is '22. And then the rates exploded, and I was super, super tight on cash then because I would run really, really lean back in the day. And it was like everything just took a halt, and I'm so I pulled the plug on TV because I'm like, I can't do this right now. But, what

Steve: are you most excited about for '26?

Casey: I think it's gonna be a strong market. '25 was a a little bit rocky. I think it severely Did

Steve: you hear the numbers you were saying earlier?

Casey: Well, it was lower margins for us. Yeah. We did. We we maintained revenue, but, spent 40% more on marketing to do so. Yeah.

So, but I think '26 is gonna be strong again. The a lot of investors will, you know, pull their offers lower, so less smaller deal sizes and whatnot, when the market retracts. But, like, it takes it's a, like, a shockwave. It takes a while for those sellers to adjust to it. It takes a while for some of the newer wholesalers to get it.

You know? Or and they're just locking stuff up too high and whatnot. So but I do think '26 will be a lot stronger. I think that, people were wounded during this period of time, and, it's just a probably an opportunity to take over some market share.

Steve: Yeah. Chamath is someone I listen to quite a bit. And, one of the things he says is that, everything we're seeing right now in q four, right, all the stats have been reported in q four, gives him a sensation that, The US economy basically is a coiled spring ready to pop. And, like, you know, you listen to these guys, the smart guys, not the economists because they're all dumb. Right.

All the economists are stupid. Right? But the guys that actually make money Right. In in in in the economy, this question is not if The US economy is gonna be strong. It's like, how strong is it gonna be?

Yeah. I think that could be, again, like, very big. Everything Yeah.

Casey: Maybe I'll regret selling the Oklahoma properties will double. Who knows? I don't know. Whatever.

Steve: Well, it's a good thing we don't live in regret.

Casey: Yeah. I just move on from it. Yeah. Alright.

Steve: Was there anything we didn't talk about that you wanna make sure we hit? Or any of the last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners?

Casey: I mean, we covered a lot. I think, the biggest tip that I could give to, I guess, basically, newer entrepreneurs, is outside of whatever your superpower is or what your your natural, talent. I just think that the people that get the farthest in any business and in life are the people that just take action right away. Whether they're going in the wrong direction or the right direction, doesn't matter. It's the ones that take action immediately and follow through on stuff and execute.

So that'd be the the tip that I would give to anybody, even if you don't know the wrong, direction to go. I think that, ignorance isn't an excuse. I think that, most of the time it's inaction. So just the bill ability to execute and, some people have, like, a natural urgency and ability for that, but I would say it's also something that you could just learn. Like, you just need to, like, repetitively think instead of, you know, end of day or next week or whatever.

It's like, just do it now. Just do it now. You'll be shocked how much you can accomplish in a shorter period of time.

Steve: Well, I mean, one of the things that, I said before is that, if you take a step forward and it's the wrong direction, well, now you know it's the wrong direction. Right.

Casey: It's all learning.

Steve: You go in the right direction. The other thing too is there's an element of unprogramming, deprogramming. Because, like, this might shock some people. Right? But I used to be a perfectionist.

There was a time where I was like, you know, like, with the paper, it's gotta be, you know, aligned perfectly for a staple. There are some habits you can unlearn because you find, like, these actually don't serve me.

Casey: Right. Yep. Right. I just have to remind myself, like, again, going back to, like, if I did or didn't do this, would anything change at all? And and anybody's like, will it push us forward?

The answer is like no. Or if the answer is like, I don't know, then I'm like, that's not a priority anymore. So and if something needs to, like, let it burn, put the dumpster fire burn, just figure it out. Like, it's been doing that this whole time, and it hasn't been a problem. So just ignore it.

Steve: So No one's died so far.

Casey: Yeah. So far. So far, so good.

Steve: Alright. Perfect. Well, thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you.

Pleasure. I guess we're watching. I'll see you guys next. Shout out to Steve train. Jump on the Steve train.

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$6M in Profit in 2025 with Only 12 Employees

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1 In 4 Motivated Homeowners Reach Out To Us Before Selling

$6M in Profit in 2025 with Only 12 Employees

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1 In 4 Motivated Homeowners Reach Out To Us Before Selling