From College Dropout to Multi Millionaire

Greg Halbach: Seemed like everybody else was making money except for me. So my doubt was, like, maybe I'm too young or maybe these sellers are too hard or maybe these attorneys are really gonna always kill the deal. This business, if you just give it your all and you commit and you study your craft and you master it, it can give you the life of your dreams.

Steve Trang: How did you become millionaire

Greg: for seven years? It's understanding fear.

Steve: Everybody, thank you for joining us for today's episode of real estate disruptors. So we have Greg Halbach with Velocity House Buyers, and Greg flew in from Reno, Nevada to talk about how you become a millionaire before the age 27 when I started. Like, I wanna become a millionaire before 30. He did it by 27. That's incredible.

Guys, I'm gonna make sure you create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, you will become one. And the show is brought to you by our sister company, Investor Lift. Get access to millions of cash buyers across the country.

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Alright. First question is, what was your life like right before you got into real estate? Wow.

Greg: It's crazy because that was, like, eight years ago now. I started when I was 20. Right? So, I mean, I was in college. Didn't know what I wanted to do.

I was getting off of a failed hockey career. I wanted to play in the NHL, and that didn't work out. But, in community college, living with my parents in their basement, honestly. It's kinda like one of those, like, you know, infomercials. Like, oh, he was in his basement.

Now he's a real estate millionaire.

Steve: But Working in his mom's basement. I mean, that's

Greg: something my mom's basement, man. Yeah. So I was in community college. I remember I got into reading books towards the end of my hockey career. And, you know, I read this book called the leap minds by Stan Beauchamp.

It's, like, super under the radar book.

Steve: Yeah. Never heard of it.

Greg: Got me into, like, the mind and, you know, psychology and all that stuff and mindset. And then Yeah. Red Rich Dad Poor Dad as most of the guests probably have. Right. And he talked about real estate.

And I knew you could make money in real estate. I knew, like, a lot of people were wealthy through real estate, but I never really figured it out. I never wanted to be a realtor. I didn't really know how to go about it, but then I started listening to podcasts because I had a side job cutting lawns and doing weed whacking. Mhmm.

Kinda like a contractor scenario. Yeah. I remember I'd listen to these podcasts, and the guy was talking about it was actually Matt Theriault at the real estate investing.

Steve: Yeah. Popular.

Greg: Very popular. And then Sean Terry, I'd listened to.

Steve: Right.

Greg: And they were talking about wholesaling and, you know, doing double closings, and then, you know, it started to make some sense. And then I went to a seminar. It was like one of those pitch seminars. And they were like, you can wholesale houses with no money. You can use the buyer's money.

They came to Newberg where I was living, like, near where I was living at the time, and me and my buddy, Devin, went to the seminar with our other friend, Kevin. Mhmm. And I was like, this is what I wanna do. Like, it's real estate. Because I remember Rich Dad Poor, I talked about it, and then I looked both I looked at both of them, and I was like, I don't care what you guys are doing.

I'm signing up for, like, the next level training because it was a pitch fest.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And they said you could take somebody for free, so why don't we see if we can do a three for one deal? Because we already have the two for one deal. Kevin was like, I'm not doing it. Kevin was like, I'll do it with you. We signed up for that seminar, and then the rest is history.

Steve: Where were you playing hockey at?

Greg: Playing in Massachusetts. So I was playing up in the Boston area.

Steve: Is that where you grew up?

Greg: No. I grew up in New York.

Steve: Grew up in

Greg: New York? In the New York City area. Okay.

Steve: And then you went to Boston to play hockey?

Greg: Went to Boston to play hockey for a year and a half. Okay. And then I literally, like, not a big quitter of things, but I knew that was a complete waste of time because I knew, like, the level I was playing at, the odds of me playing d one hockey at that level were really low. Mhmm. And I was just burning my parents' money.

Steve: And this is you're in community college at this time?

Greg: After I got done with hockey, I went to community

Steve: college locally. So you're playing d one or you weren't you're trying to get to d one.

Greg: Trying to get to d one. What's before d one? Junior hockey.

Steve: Junior hockey.

Greg: Which is, like, after high school. It's like high school, junior hockey, and then college.

Steve: Oh, gotcha. I wasn't aware of that. Okay.

Greg: It's a whole system in hockey. The younger you are, the better, but I was old because I was, like, 19. Mhmm. So I was, like, kinda one of the older guys and, like, all the really good kids are, like, 18, 19. And I was like, this is just I literally packed my stuff up and drove home.

I called my mom in Connecticut. I was like, hey. I'll be home in two hours. Like, I'm done.

Steve: Right.

Greg: And she was like, oh. I was like, yeah. I'm out of here.

Steve: This is

Greg: a waste of time. Right. And she was like, okay, honey. I'll see you in two hours.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Crazy. So, you go to the seminar, and you sign up.

Yeah. How much was the seminar?

Greg: $2,000.

Steve: 2,000.

Greg: There's a thousand each.

Steve: So a thousand each to a 10 or

Greg: To a 10. Yeah. To go

Steve: And then the upsell was

Greg: Oh, that was, like, 50,000. So it was a free seminar, and then we paid the 2,000. For the

Steve: elite training?

Greg: Yeah. For the elite training.

Steve: That's a steal.

Greg: It was a great deal. Yeah. They taught you everything too.

Steve: But then they

Greg: were like, if you need hands on coaching and then they get you to raise your credit card limits, it's like the whole thing. I think that model's kinda going away now Mhmm.

Steve: Which I

Greg: don't really believe in. But the next one was, like, $50. And then I was thinking about it, and I was like, Devin was like, no, dude. Like, we don't need to do that. Like, we just gotta go out.

Like, our

Steve: So you say the rest is history. It was eight years ago. Yeah. So you take this information. You go to the next level training.

Talk to me about how you got your first deal.

Greg: Oh my god. That seems like so long ago. So my first deal was from a bandit sign.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: So I had no money when I started. Like, you know, I spent basically half the money in my bank account to go to the seminar, so I was left with a thousand dollars. I had to sell my car, bought a cheaper car. You know, I had to, like, you know, kinda

Steve: Yeah. A lot of skin in the game.

Greg: Yes. I did. And a lot of time invested. But the one marketing channel, at least back in the day, that worked well was bandit signs. If they were cheap, I'd put them out myself.

I'd put them out every weekend. Consistently, I would never miss. I'd take them or I'd put them out on Friday night, take them out on Sunday afternoon. Mhmm. So they'd be out for, like, forty eight hours, and then I would get calls.

Right? And I was getting these leads pretty cheap because I was just my time back then. Right. Right? And I remember we got a call from a lady in Poughkeepsie, and she was like, yeah.

I wanna sell. My daughter's living in the property. There's, like, you know, some sketchy stuff going on in there. And I was like, I think this is a motivated seller because, like, the training's like, you gotta deal with motivated sellers. And I did not know what a motivated seller was.

Yeah. So I, you know, spoke with her, and I this is where a lot of new investors screw up. I reached out to people in my market at the time who were bigger than me, and there was this one guy, Dave Brown. His website was ranked number one, so I called him. This is before I had that lead.

And I was like, hey. I'm new, like, kinda like the typical thing. I'm new. Is there anything I can do to help you? Like, I'm trying to get my first deal.

So him and I, like, formed a relationship, and I helped him with some of his leads. But then when I got this lead, I was like, hey. Can we partner on this deal? Like, I have the seller. She wants to sell pretty cheap.

You have a buyer we can split this on, and he found a buyer. So we locked the deal up. He so New York is, like, a really hard market.

Steve: Yes. It is.

Greg: Like, very hard market, especially, like, the Lower Hudson Valley in Long Island. It's very, very competitive, and it's expensive. So I didn't have money for earnest money deposit. So he put up the earnest money deposit. He dealt with the contract.

He dealt with the attorney, and we split $10,000. Nice. And I checked $5. Mhmm. So I went back to my parents, and I was like, because they saw me working my tail off, and they didn't see any money.

I was basically paying to work. Right. Right? So they were like, oh, like, I hope this works out, Greg. Like, if doesn't work out, you can get a job.

And I'm like, I'm not getting a job. Like, refuse to get a job. I was like I'm like, I was doing, like, Gary v garage selling on the weekends till I have some extra money. Split that deal, $5, $5. I brought them a check.

I was like, hey. This works. Another deal came up, like, two months later for another $5. But, like, the mistake I was making in the beginning, which is, I guess, a good mistake because I was kinda just going to, like, a couple buyers and, like, spoon feeding them deals. Mhmm.

And they'd pay me whatever they wanted. Like, it was $5, great. If it was $10, great. Like, I had no leverage.

Steve: Mhmm. I

Greg: didn't have money for deposits. Because New York, you can't just lock a deal up with a seller. You have, like, an attorney involved, and it's like you have to put a big deposit down. So they helped me, like, in that difficult market kinda get the first few deals under my belt. Yeah.

But I knew after some time, I'm like, I can't hit my goals if I'm, like, dependent on these buyers, so I need to figure out how to do this, you know, without relying on a buyer

Steve: Right. Putting

Greg: the deposit down.

Steve: So, band of signs, getting calls. I mean, how how was that first deal? Was it me was it a layup basically after you got it locked up?

Greg: It was a complete layup. Like, the lady sold me the house super cheap. No resistance. No objections. It was like, couldn't have asked for the better like, the the seller.

Like, I wish I could clone the seller nowadays because we'd be doing this show from the back of a yacht or something. Uh-huh. No. It just doesn't work like that.

Steve: So then what was your next what was your next deal?

Greg: Next deal was actually from another bandit sign in Westchester County, which is even harder than where I'm from. That's, like, an hour south. Mhmm. And that was from a bandit sign. That was not a layup.

That seller was pretty sophisticated. Like, a lot of these people in Westchester, like, they might be motivated, but they're they're educated. Right? So, like, we had to get an attorney involved there in Westchester, and he is having issues with wholesale. So we had to, like, sneak the assignment in and, like, convince the attorney that we're still gonna close and, like, put, like, ten grand down.

So I made I'm all the ultimately made $5,000 wholesaling that house too Mhmm. From another band of science. So, like, the ROI and the band of science was great.

Steve: Right.

Greg: But then I was like, alright. I can't just rely on these bandit signs because I don't really know when the calls are gonna come in. Mhmm. But I had no money for, like, the like, a like, a direct mail company. So I would just buy lists from the county, and I would handwrite the letters myself.

Mhmm. And that's how I got my third deal. It was 15,000. Nice. It was a handwritten letter.

Like, I would literally handwrite the yellow letters, and then I realized that was inefficient. So then I bought a printer. I'd mail merge Mhmm. The printed letters, and then I would mail merge the, like, the envelopes. So So then all I had to do was lick the stamps, which is not a good use of time now, and seal the envelopes.

But, like, that worked super well back in 2016.

Steve: Did you see the company on the right when you walked through the front door?

Greg: Probably walked by them. I didn't see them, though.

Steve: It says on the on on on the outside, it says, hail all the robots. Right? It's a handwriting, handwritten letter company.

Greg: Really?

Steve: Yeah. I actually got a tour yesterday from the owner. And I was like, wow. It's incredible to watch all these handwritten letters by pen. Right?

It's just

Greg: around back then.

Steve: Seriously. Although, I don't know how much

Greg: I don't know if I could have afforded it back then. Yeah. That's those are probably I mean, I was doing it Yeah. Personally, it was Greg's handwriting at the beginning.

Steve: How did you, continue, I guess, well, what woulda happened because you're saying there's no way in heck you're getting a job. You're gonna do the garage sale of Gary Vee thing forever. Yeah. What would happen if you never got your first deal?

Greg: Honestly, I would've stuck it out until I got my first deal. But to answer your question, I would've probably probably just continued buying and selling stuff at yard sales. Yeah. Because, eventually, like, the garage selling stuff was cool, but then I started figuring I could go, like, lowball people for AC units

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: Like, window units Mhmm. And make a better margin on that. I probably would've tried to scale that. Yeah. I mean, I just, like, figured, like, I remember there's a couple funny stories, but, like, the first one, this guy I remember I drove to Poughkeepsie, which is where the first deal was in the hood, like, bad, bad, bad neighborhood by myself, like, kind of when it's getting dark out in the summer.

Picked up this AC unit for, like, $50, resold it for, like, $2.50. So, like, I netted $200, and I was like, man, what if I did two of these a day? Yeah. Right? So I started doing more of that stuff, and, like, there was, like, the standing units.

I I knew those were good margins, and people would just give these away, like, ridiculous. And then one time I was at a garage sale. This guy had an Anderson window just sitting by the trash, and I was like, hey. Are you you're just throwing that out? And he's like, yeah.

I was like, can I just have it? And he's like, sure. Solve that for, like, a $100. What's that? So I started to realize, like, these windows and

Steve: What's the Andersen window?

Greg: It's a really high end window.

Steve: Okay. Like,

Greg: if you see, like, a nice house, usually there's Andersen windows in it. Like, it's really good finishes.

Steve: I don't

Greg: put those in my rehabs. Gotcha. Too expensive.

Steve: I see.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: So you saw a panel glass or a window, and he's like, easy $100.

Greg: There's a $100 in the garbage can. I was like, this guy. Unbelievable. Just giving it away.

Steve: Did you have any doubts

Greg: along the way? The biggest doubt I had was, like, I would consume these podcasts when I drive around and put bandit signs out and write the letters, And it seemed like everybody else was making money except for me. Like, I'd hear one guy in Virginia do a wholesale deal for $30, and then this guy in Pennsylvania would do one for $20. And I was like, all these other people are doing this, but I have not done this yet. So my doubt was like, well, maybe it doesn't work in New York, or maybe I'm too young, or maybe these sellers are too hard, or maybe these attorneys are really gonna always kill the deal.

Mhmm. And it took, like, you know, nine to twelve months of just grit and persistence. And, like, in the beginning of any business, you don't have momentum. So it's very hard to, like Yeah. Have consistency because you have no men no momentum or experience.

Like, I had no business experience. I was a kid out of college. Right. I didn't understand KPIs and numbers and, like, it was just kinda, like, all just going out and taking action and, you know, hopefully getting a deal whenever that came, you know, and it ended up taking nine months.

Steve: But the nine months definitely I mean, that's a significant amount of time. You think that book you're talking about Elite Minds? Yeah. Do you think that helped?

Greg: It did. Because it taught you about beliefs and, like, false beliefs and true beliefs, and a lot of people have false beliefs. So, like, I would let these false beliefs creep into my head that, like, it wouldn't work, but then I realized it was just a limiting belief. Mhmm. And, obviously, if all these other people like, the big thing I realized at the seminar was, like, if all these other people can do it, clearly, there's, like, a market for this.

Like, it clearly works. But in the beginning, it was, like, why would someone sell their house below market value? Like, that didn't compute in my mind. Like, why would someone do that? Like, you have a house worth 300 k, you're gonna sell it for $1.50.

It doesn't, like, doesn't make sense. But then I realized after, you know, eight years, like, this happens on the daily.

Steve: All the time.

Greg: All the time.

Steve: We so we, I don't know if you heard any of that call I had a moment ago. Right? So we're talking about installment method. Right?

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. I heard that.

Steve: And the lady was like, well, why would anyone ever do this? Why would they just listen to the realtors?

Greg: Like,

Steve: I don't know. Why does anyone sell their house to cash buyers? I can't explain to you Yeah. Why people sell their house for cash buyers.

Greg: Like an ovation.

Steve: Or an ovation. Right? It's like, how do I pitch this? Same exact way you pitch innovation. Same.

So I was like, why would someone do this instead of listening? It's like, I can't tell you. Right? I can tell you I would never do this.

Greg: Yeah. I would never sell a house in discount.

Steve: I would never sell my house at cash buyer. Greg, you can call me. I'm not selling my house for cash. Right?

Greg: Never.

Steve: We have, BJ Gremillion. He, he moved to Tennessee recently, but, you know, he used to live out here. Yeah. And we're both in collective genius together. Right?

And one day, I get a postcard from him, and I posted it inside that Facebook group. It was like, hey. You know, BJ, thanks for but I don't need some of my house for cash. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Appreciate it.

Greg: That's funny. I'm on those lists too. I like the apps I'm on the apps dealer list on some rental properties, and I'm like, why are they mailing me? Right. Like, my good buddy Ken in Delaware who's in CG.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: I got a postcard from him about a fact

Steve: he did

Greg: in Pennsylvania. Mhmm. And I'm like, head man, can I speak to your marketing department? Right? And I just bought that property.

We flipped

Steve: it.

Greg: Right? So it was like, you never know. You never know.

Steve: So but, yeah, the, the belief, like, no one would ever sell the house for cash. And I had the same journey as well.

Greg: Yep.

Steve: Alright. I used to believe when I was wearing my realtor hat. Oh,

Greg: yeah. That's a tough belief if you have a realtor hat on.

Steve: Alright. Like, these these people, like, we're lowballing these people. We're taking advantage of people. Like, that's the realtor hat. Like, no one will ever take less.

And then it really took a couple of homeowners, like, I want you to give me cash now. It's like, really? You'd rather have cash now than, like, more money? Like, after a few of those, like, okay.

Greg: They're out there.

Steve: I am putting my own beliefs and projecting it onto somebody else. Yes. Yeah.

Greg: It's funny you see that because there's so many homeowners who are, like, back when I did the acquisitions, like, we really helped them. Yeah. They were not gonna solve their problem unless somebody like me or another investor came into play. Because a lot of these people, they just can't make decisions. Yeah.

Right? And you have to help them guide you can you gotta guide them down that journey. And a lot of these sellers, like, they'll be like, if it wasn't for you guys, I would've never solved this house. Because, like, we know how to solve the title problems and buy houses with violations, and it's like, a lot of people think, yeah, just because you put your house on the market with an agent, you're gonna get more money. Yeah.

But the buyer is gonna be picking you apart. It's not like you get this is like a seesaw.

Steve: Well, the the best testimony I've ever gotten was a deal that I made a ridiculous amount of money on. Yeah.

Greg: Right? It always has the best testimonials.

Steve: It's the best. Right? Yeah. And I was like, why was this the case? Yeah.

Well, they had a house that they smoked heavily, husband and wife, for a long time. Yeah. As a matter of fact, when I did the rehab, I had to paint the walls twice because the first coat of paint the first coat of prime and paint Yeah. Was not enough. Yeah.

And so we had and we had to and we cleaned the vents twice. Oh, yeah, dude. Alright. So it took a second layer of prime and paint to get the smoke away. And even then, who know who knows what's

Greg: going on?

Steve: Was a little yeah. Right.

Greg: Dingy in there.

Steve: But the biggest thing was that they were buying a home, their dream home on the lake. Okay. Right? And, like, them getting that dream home on the lake was contingent on them selling this house. Yeah.

Right? But, like, someone else on the outside looks at it looks as, like, oh, you took advantage of them. It's like, well, who's buying that house? Whereas, like, it's even hard to keep your eyes open inside the home. And then, like, they were able to meet their time frame to live in their dream home for the rest of their lives.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Right. So

Greg: Solve that problem for them.

Steve: Solve that problem. So what was it when did you know that this business was real for you?

Greg: It was actually when I didn't do deals in New York, which is funny. That's like a whole another chapter in my life. But, basically, I was, like, kinda just getting by in New York. Didn't have enough money to move out of my parents' house. This is, like, February.

So, like, every two or three months, I'd run into a deal, make $10.50. I was like a cash buyer employee as Todd Toback would say. Mhmm. I was just like working for these cash buyers, you know, with random compensation. And I was like, alright.

New York is hard. That's funny because that's where we do a lot of business now, like, eight years later. But I was like, what if there's another market where I didn't have to deal with it? Because attorneys were the problem. Like, they were asking for $5.10, $15,000 down per house, and it's like, I didn't have that much money just sitting on, you know, on the shelf Right.

To put them down. So I was like, there was two things. I did a the first deal I did from direct mail was a vacant tax delinquent, like, distressed inherited house. So it's inherited, vacant, and tax delinquent. And I was like, what if I just found a list that was just those three things and just market it to those people?

And then what if I didn't do this in New York? It was like this hypothesis I had. Mhmm. And I was in investor fuel mastermind. And I was like, oh, Dallas seems like a good market.

I didn't do any, like, market research. I'm like, oh, there's a lot of people in Dallas. So I started to basically cold call in Dallas in 2018. Mhmm. And I would buy this is literally what I did.

Bought the tax delinquent list, used Accusip, which isn't even a thing anymore. Now you can use, like, Envelo or something that's, like, stacking software. Mhmm. I'd flag all the vacants, and then I would look for, like, the estate of, which means it was inherited. Mhmm.

And I would just cold call these people and lock deals up over the phone, and I met a guy at Investor Fuel who I JV with. He would sell the deal, or we would just buy it in cash because it was super cheap because I saved some money up at the time. Mhmm. And that's when, like, I went from, like, barely doing a deal every other month to, like, two, three, four, five deals a month consistently virtually without ever ever having to see the property. Yeah.

And then I moved to San Diego, and I was like, this is what I was waiting for. Like, it took a long time, but, like, then I was like, okay. Every month, I know as long as I do this work, I'm gonna get this many leads. We're gonna make this many offers. I started to track my numbers at that point.

Yeah. And then there was consistency.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. You know, you talk about stack list, which, you know, Evo. Yes. Batch leads.

Yeah. I remember him doing this this case study on stack leads, and I was like, no. That guy, that's that's great.

Greg: That was me.

Steve: Right. You were the case study

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: For the stack list.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Right? And I mean I had

Greg: a 6 figure deal from that. I remember that case study. Yeah. That was from the stack list.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. You wanna talk about that deal?

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. That was actually in New York, ironically. But, basically, long story short, it was a vacant property that was inherited. He didn't have any tax issues, but he lived in, like, the South Jersey area.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And I personally texted that guy because it was from the stack list because I knew it was, like, a good, like, good prospect. Like,

Steve: seven zero seven, like Yeah. Issues with that. Yeah.

Greg: It's just like so the super stack list texted the guy on my cell phone, and he, like, got back midday later. He was like, yeah. I'd tell that. It's my parent. It was my parents' house, and it was in, like, a really good area of New York.

City's, like, thirty minutes away. So I remember I was in New York at that point. Like, I was there for, like, Easter or something. I met the guy at the house, and I'll never forget this. I knew my offer.

Like, my my first offer was gonna be, like, $1.90. Mhmm. That was, like, my, like, starting lowball, like, anchor price. And I asked him. I'm like, Brian, what would you wanna sell this house for?

And he's like, $1.40. And I was like, woah. Yeah. And I didn't say I just shut up. I was like, okay.

Well, if you got that number, what would your next step be? Mhmm. And he's like, I can't make a decision right now. So I never gave him an offer. I was like,

Steve: okay.

Greg: That's fair. Let me, run my numbers. I said, when do you think you're gonna be able to make a decision? Because there was another decision maker. And he's like, call me on Monday.

If I call him Monday, Hey, Brian. You know, how'd that conversation go with your girlfriend? And he's like, yeah. I spoke to her. She thinks we need to get more money.

I'm like, okay. What do you wanna get for the house? And he's like, $1.85. And meanwhile, my starting price was gonna be $1.90. I never opened my mouth.

He said $1.85, and I'm like, alright. If I could do $1.85, would you be able to commit to the deal? And he's like, yeah. For sure. So I gave him exactly what he wanted.

Mhmm. He committed to the deal. I've rehabbed the house. I made, like, a $100 or something. Yeah.

I was just like, oh my god. And that was the first time I got a hard money when I was, like, terrified to borrow money. It's, like, freaking me out. But at at that point, I did enough deals to where I kinda knew what I was doing. Yeah.

But I made 6 figures on one deal, and I had, like, a little like, Earl Nightingale always talks about, like, you write your goal down on a card. Mhmm. And my goal was to make a 100 k, like, net on one house before a certain day. I think I was, like, five days late. But I remember I took it out of my wallet, and I was like, oh, wow.

This stuff works.

Steve: Yeah. But yeah. Well and I remember that case study specifically because you already had a brand, right, at that time. Yeah. Right?

So, actually, before we get to that, New York. Oh, it's that tough. I don't know anyone that loves doing business in the state of New York. So there's Bill Alvaro. He does well You

Greg: should get him on the show.

Steve: Oh, I mean, if he'll come out here, I've asked him multiple times.

Greg: Jeremiah, you gotta get him on the show.

Steve: Jeremiah, we gotta get on the show. You gotta get him on the show. Right. So we got Jeremiah. We got Billy.

We

Greg: got Warner, Quiroga.

Steve: Yep. Good guy. Right? So, like, they're guys that do business in New York.

Greg: Yep.

Steve: We got the twins. Right? The Duroff brothers.

Greg: Yep. Right? They're in the market.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So we got people that are in New York, but I don't think they love doing business in New York. I think they just do business in New York.

Greg: Have to just accept it.

Steve: Or yeah. I mean, like, you choose suffering. Right?

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? The spreads are big.

Steve: The spreads are big. Huge. Right. Huge spread. So talk to me about the challenges of doing business in New York.

Greg: So the first thing is that the seller profile is not like because I've done business all over the country for the most part, like, Midwest, South, West Coast. The profile of the seller in New York, everyone thinks they're getting scammed there. Like, everyone has an attorney, and everyone thinks they're getting scammed. So the sellers are

Steve: I mean, they just is it is it a is it a victim mindset? Is it Not

Greg: a victim. They just they just they don't believe you. They think it's a scam.

Steve: They're just skeptical or what?

Greg: They're very skeptical about anything that's not listing your house with a realtor.

Steve: So let me just kinda sidetrack this just a moment. Alright? So I know they're a little louder in Manhattan. Yeah. I know this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And I I I had to, like, prepare myself mentally for this.

Right? So we're out there, and we walk into a pizzeria.

Greg: In Manhattan?

Steve: In Manhattan. Okay. Right? And I told my wife, told my kids, like, hey. You know, they're gonna be a little louder.

Yeah. And even though I knew this logically Yeah. Factually, when we ordered the pizza and Coke, I was like, why is this guy yelling at me?

Greg: You should see a bagel store. Yeah.

Steve: I'm a paying customer. Yeah. Why is he screaming at me? Like, I'm, like, this lowlife. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a different attitude.

Greg: The attitude there is skeptical. Like, it's it that's the first thing. So it's the seller profile. They're skeptical. Like, they see postcards.

They see Google Ads. They're like, this is a scam. So you have to overcome a lot of resistance. But once you get the seller and you you can make you get them on your side and whatever, the next biggest obstacle in York is the attorneys. So in New York, this typical way you're supposed to do it, and we sometimes do it a different way legally.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: But the seller gets their own attorney. They prepare the contract. So the seller's attorney prepares the contract, then they send it to your attorney Mhmm. And then you gotta make sure the contract doesn't have crazy language in it. Because in New York, generally speaking, there's no inspection contingency.

You get an inspection done before you buy the house. Mhmm. So you get an offer accepted, and then there's an inspection. So you don't have a binding contract, so you could walk. The seller could walk.

And then after the inspection, if there's issues with the house, they put it into the contract in, like, a addendum, and then you sign that, and then you do that before you close. So the problem in New York is that a lot of attorneys, they want 10% down. So if you're buying a house for 300,000, the standard New York thing is you put $30,000 down. So if you're a wholesaler and you're bringing

Steve: earnest money.

Greg: Yeah. Nonrefundable with no inspection contingency. Mhmm. So, like, if you have to be willing like, we get it down a lot. Like, usually, we do, like, 1,000, 2,005, even 5,000.

That's a lot, you know, on a house you don't really know what's going on. Mhmm. You gotta put that deposit down. And then another thing is that the seller's attorney a lot of time will put in the contract that it's not assignable. Mhmm.

So then you have to double close, which you can do in New York with the unbuyer's money, so that doesn't really matter. But it's just and then you have a buyer's attorney. Mhmm. So, like, a typical New York deal, seller has an attorney, and then there's a seller. The wholesaler has an attorney, and there's a wholesaler.

The buyer has an attorney. There's a buyer. The hard money lender has an attorney, and then there's a hard money lender. So there could be eight people. I remember there was a deal.

This is, like, two years ago. I actually went to the closing, and the end buyer had the attorney with him. They were sitting next to each other. The lender was there without the no. The lender's attorney was there without the lender.

And then the seller's attorney gave me the key because he thought I was buying the house, which I technically was. I double closed, and then I took the key and passed it across the table. Mhmm. And he goes, did you just flip this? I said, yep.

He's like, oh, alright. Yeah. Sounds like a plan to me. So everyone has an attorney. So it just makes the whole process very long, very complicated, and there's a real barrier to entry there.

So that's why a lot of new people have a difficult time because they will get a seller to accept their offer that might be a good offer, but then they gotta put $15 down, and they don't have it.

Steve: So That's the problem. We had, an episode part in the disruption where RJ Bates got pissed. Right? We're talking about attorneys and how they're useless. And He usually talked about how, like, it was a scenario.

Right? Seller has an attorney. Buyer's attorney. He, the wholesaler, has his own attorney. Yeah.

And the situation was basically, wanted attorneys wanted to do wanted to redline and rewrite a certain language. Mhmm. But he'd only do it as a Word doc. And the other attorney is like, I don't send any Word docs. I only send PDFs because I don't want anyone messing with my stuff.

Greg: That happens in New

Steve: York. Right?

Greg: Yep.

Steve: So, yeah, he's like, they were at an impasse.

Greg: Where was the deal?

Steve: I don't know. I just know New York.

Greg: Okay. Somewhere in probably

Steve: the city. But Yeah. Legit, this was an impasse Yeah. To a deal getting done. Yeah.

Because one attorney only sends PDFs, and only only attorney only receives Word docs. I believe it. Like, this is That's

Greg: what happens in New York. That's why people that's why people don't like doing business there is because you could have a 6 figure deal and the attorney could say, oh, this guy wants an assignment contract because the problem is you get an offer accepted and then you can't lock the deal up on spot. So the seller could change their mind, but a lot of the times, the problem and, thankfully, I say a lot of the times, happens maybe one out of 10 deals. The seller I remember we had a deal where we would have made a fortune on this thing. The seller accepted our offer.

We went to go lock it up, and the attorney's like, dude, you can't sell this house for that price. He listed it and made another $100. Mhmm. So it's like, it is what it is. It's just the cost of doing business.

But that's the big problem in New York. It's like, sometimes the attorney will kill the deal before you even have a deal.

Steve: In some ways, they're worse than realtors.

Greg: Yeah. For sure. Because they think they know, and a lot of them do know a lot, but the bad ones think they know a lot. Mhmm. And then they give their client bad advice that really will not help them.

Mhmm. And then the client ends up suffering. Right. Right? So it's like we had a deal.

We had to really massage the attorney on. And, you know, we finally were like, we're gonna put $7 down. Mhmm. Smells are putting down. We are flipping the property.

We already have a buyer. And the seller was like, I'm just gonna tell my attorney, like, whatever you guys wanna do is cool. So if you get the seller on your side, usually, they'll just say, listen. I spoke to the buyer. We're good.

Mhmm. You know? They'll put $7 down, which is a lot.

Steve: Yeah. So New York, it's wonderful.

Greg: But the spreads, I will say, the average profit in New York, even if you're wholesaling is, like, $30. Yeah. Like, that's a normal like, if you're making a wholesale deal less than $30, it's, like, weird because it's it's so expensive there. Like, the average price is, like, 500 k. So to make 30 k is not hard.

Yeah. Right? So that does make up for the, you know, the difficulties with the attorney. And the other thing about New York I love is that when you have a deal in contract, like, it's so hard to get into contract, it's impossible to get a contract. The seller changes their mind, you see them, put all those pennies on the property, and, like, you're gonna win every time.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: Like, a lot of the stuff out here, it's like you gotta put a memorandum on there, and then the title company might not acknowledge it. So in New York, when you do have a deal, it's guaranteed it's gonna close.

Steve: One thing that's interesting, so we had another guy out there, and he was locking up contracts left and right in, I think, Buffalo.

Greg: That's, yeah, that's, like, eight hours from where Right. City.

Steve: I believe it was Buffalo. And, no. It was Rochester.

Greg: Right. Okay. Yeah. Near Buffalo. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. He was locking up deals left and right. And, like, it took six months to for these things to clear title.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the municipals usually. So there's a municipal search in New York, which is this is where New York's very complicated, but there's a lot of towns in New York.

Mhmm. And then in those towns, there's villages. And in those villages, there's hamlets. So, basically, like, we're dealing with this now. We're doing a wholesale deal in, like, the New York City area, and the inspector has to come to the property and walk the entire property before they issue, like, a no violation certificate.

Mhmm.

Steve: So a

Greg: lot of these homeowners are selling at a discount because there's violations of the wazoo. Right. So, you know, you get flagged with a violation, and then either the seller has to fix it or you as the investor has to fix it. And that's what causes a lot of these deals to take a long time. Yeah.

It's like there's an open permit for a deck. There's an open permit for a roof. There's an open permit for, you know, a boiler that wasn't installed right. And then that's a title issue in New York because that's in, like, one of the sections in the contract. Yeah.

So it just causes these deals. Like, a quick wholesale deal is, like, three months.

Steve: Well, then that's the thing that was I was looking at is, like, they reach out to us Yeah. Because they have financial problems Yes. That needs to be fixed quickly.

Greg: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then they get in contract, and it just takes

Steve: And then the attorneys kinda, like, do whatever they want.

Greg: Yeah. They're and they're on their own schedule. So it's it is a you know, another thing too in New York is I think the quickest deal I ever did was, like, thirty days, which is, like, a unicorn. Mhmm. But a lot of the sellers too, at least in Westchester, they kinda know their house isn't, like, super liquid in terms of, like, oh, I'll get the cash in two weeks.

They kinda know, like, a quick deal, probably a month and a half of, like, normal deals, like, two months. But, I mean, it's better than, I guess, listing it because then it's, like, two months plus the buyer plus the mortgage contingency. So

Steve: Yeah. It's it's all great.

Greg: That's a tough market, man.

Steve: Yeah. So you started with this seminar. Yeah. You go do this with your buddy. Your buddy stick along for the ride?

Greg: He's very successful. Devin King, I'll give him a shout out. Yeah. Very successful.

Steve: Alongside you or separately?

Greg: Separately. Separately. So we, like, we're gonna be partners in the beginning. We're super young and green, and then, like, you know, he was flipping quads, doing well. I had no other income stream, so our work ethics were a little different in the beginning.

He didn't need it to work as bad as I did.

Steve: When you say flipping quads, you mean the vehicle? Not quad flexes.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Like flipping ATVs. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Greg: So he was buying and selling. I was doing well. So, like, the real estate was really hard Mhmm. In the beginning at least. So, like, he was like, maybe I won't work as hard now Mhmm.

Because he was still making money flipping quads. And then I was like, dude, I need this to work. So, eventually, like, we're like, hey. Let's just do this on our own, and we'll just collaborate. And we've done JV deals and whatnot Gotcha.

On some rehabs together.

Steve: So you go from New York to Texas Yep. To San Diego. Yeah. Did you do business in San Diego?

Greg: I've done probably, like, five deals in San Diego.

Steve: In San Diego.

Greg: And then Just like by living there, I was like, let me just, you know

Steve: You've done Nevada. You've done Delaware. Delaware. I'm gonna deal in Arizona.

Greg: There's a random, like, one off deal.

Steve: I mean, I mean, are you nationwide? What is your mom?

Greg: Most of our most of our business is in New York and Delaware. Okay. That's, like, the core business. So, like, Brett generally, my acquisitions guy, big shout out to Brett. Mhmm.

He moved to Delaware, and I didn't really wanna do business there because I'm like, why are we gonna do it? Like, we're doing this in New York because, like, once I got the business established in Texas and I had, like, cash coming in, I was able to save a lot of that money and then reinvest it into real marketing in New York, and I knew there was, like, a higher barrier to entry. So, eventually, like, that vacant house thing in Texas kinda dried up because there was only so many of those people. Mhmm. But I had money now to market in New York, and I knew that area because I grew up there.

So we were doing a lot of deals in New York, and then he moved to Delaware. And he's, like, maybe we should do some deals on here. I'm, like, how is that a distraction? I don't know about that. So we started marketing in Delaware just because he was living there.

He can go on appointments. Mhmm. And it took us a while. I did a flip. I broke even on it.

I paid way too much for it. That's a different story. So I was like, oh, dude. I don't think this makes sense. Like, we're Yeah.

You know, we're kinda spreading ourselves too thin here. We gotta learn a new market. We got a deal, like, the next week. Made, like, $15 closed in a week and a half because in Delaware, there's no BS with the attorneys. So we made 15 k, like, out of thin air, and I was like, alright.

Let's keep doing marketing. So then we started doing some PPC, did a 35 k deal, closed it in, like, three weeks, and I was like, wait a minute. We can use this Delaware market as a way to kinda keep our cash flow consistent because you can close a deal in Delaware if there's no title issues in a week if you really had to. And then he was there. So I'm like, alright.

Because you live there and because it's a lot easier to transact down here, let's do Delaware and keep that consistent, but we also gotta keep our New York market, like, dialed in because that's where a lot of the big spreads are. So it's really two markets. It's not like I'm nationwide.

Steve: So you don't do you don't do any deals in in in Reno?

Greg: Not yet. I've been I've spent $35 in marketing so far, and I've not got a thing.

Steve: Gotcha.

Greg: Thank god we're in New York and Delaware. I will get deals in Reno. It will just take some time.

Steve: So Delaware is where you're getting consistent business?

Greg: Yes. More volume in Delaware.

Steve: More volume. Yeah. And New York is where you're doing

Greg: bigger deals. Yes.

Steve: So what's a big like, what's what is your typical spread, and what's your largest spread?

Greg: Largest spread ever was a 135,000 Okay. Net. And then the typical, like, wholesale deal in Delaware is, like, 20,000. Mhmm. Typical wholesale deal in New York is, like, 30 to 40.

Steve: Right.

Greg: Yeah. And a rehab is, like, 50.

Steve: So knowing that, I'm I'm just looking at this as a return of effort.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Why not go what's the reason for not going all in in Delaware if they're the fee sizes are different Yeah. But one requires a lot more hand holding or babysitting.

Greg: So New York, we have a lot of, like, old leads that we follow-up with. So we have a lot of just, like, data and, like, all this marketing effort from the years before that we can follow-up with. And in New York, believe it or not, there's not that much competition compared to Phoenix. Mhmm. So, like, I know Totally that.

Direct mail there is super juicy because, like, there's not a ton. Ton I mean, there's people sending mail, but it's not like, hey. I got 10 postcards. Like, that doesn't happen. You may be competing with one person.

Yeah. So just like the barrier to entry, I know the area super well. I grew up there. Like, I if we get a like, an address, like, I know what the ARV is in two seconds. Yeah.

I have good contract. Like, the contractors in Delaware are a disaster so far for me. So the wholesaling is great, but we've done some rehabs down there and took a big bath on a house on a, like, a it was a Philly area, but that's, like, the same kind of market. And then we did another rehab we did pretty well on, but just the contractors disaster. New York, I have, like, three contractors that are really good.

Mhmm. And I know them. They know me. I show face there enough. So it's just like a better system if we're gonna do rehabs in New York just because we're contractors.

So Delaware, we gotta get this contractor thing fixed and Gotcha. Go from there.

Steve: So and then you're doing this predominantly virtually. Yeah. So talk to me about running a a virtual business.

Greg: Yeah. I mean, that's that's been a huge learning curve, you know, up to this day. It's it's the the biggest issue I'll say with, like, a virtual team is you're not in the office. Right? So, like, everyone has to be self motivated to do their own work on their own because I can't, like, just walk into someone's office and be like, hey.

Did you do this? Like, just, you know, they're on their own. Right? So, thankfully, I have a good team that is very accountable. Mhmm.

So that's the first thing is, like, when you're not and it's, like, harder to build, like, the team camaraderie a little bit because you're not in the same office.

Steve: Right.

Greg: Second thing with virtual from, like, a tactical thing is you're locking deals up over the phone, and you don't really know what you're getting sometimes.

Steve: Mhmm. So a

Greg: lot of sellers will tell you that the house is x y z, and then you lock it up based on that. And then, you know, you get the pictures, and it's, like, nothing like they said. So then you're like, well, you told me x. You're really giving me y. Mhmm.

What are we gonna do about this?

Steve: Right. Right?

Greg: And you gotta get into the sales at that point and be like, hey. Like, what should we do about this? Like, you said it needed this, and it really needs that. So there is an issue with over the phone. Like, you're you just you can't put your eyes on it sometimes.

Like, we a lot of times, we'll have someone walk it beforehand, but if we can't do that, you know, you're going off the seller's word, and, that can cause issues sometimes.

Steve: Is there a situation where you typically just assume it's one step, one notch worse than what they're saying is?

Greg: What we do now. Like, in 2023, like, this year, like, we've made some big mistakes with that, like, buying deals that we probably shouldn't have because of the numbers. Mhmm. And now, like, I if they say the house is really bad, I assume it's really, really bad.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: Like, if they if I'm thinking the rehab's 80, I'm gonna assume it's a 100. Yeah. Right? Because, like, if I'm not there, like, if it's a 100, great. That's what I thought.

If it's less than a 100, then that's all. Right. That's all just, like, found money.

Steve: Yeah. Because it's it's amazing. Like, a person that lives in a house in deferred maintenance Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

They think it's fine because that's their standard.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had that happen this morning, actually.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But if you're, like, you said it was an alright condition or it's livable.

I was like, this is not livable by any stretch of imagination, but they get used to it.

Greg: They it's just their that's what they're used to. Yeah. There's a house this morning a buyer walked in New York, and there's, like, spray painted graffiti with devils on the wall, like devils with horns. And, like, no sheet rock, like, just complete just squalor, and they're living there, unfortunately. Right?

So that's an opera that's a scenario where, like, you'd think it's a vacant house if you drove by. But then see the power bills in their name, and it's on, and they live in there, and you're like, wow. Right. Right? But, like, that house is 150 k rehab, at least.

Right.

Steve: It

Greg: needs everything. So, yeah, that's a challenge for virtual. And then, you know, the third thing is just doing rehabs virtually. Like, you know, even though in New York, we have good contractors, like, you know, you're not there. You're not walking the job site.

Like so I really rely on the realtors who sell the deals Mhmm. That'd be like my boots on the ground with that. They deal with the contractor. They deal with the permits because I'm not and even if I lived in New York, I really don't like going to houses, which is funny. Like, I don't like going.

It's just, like, you drive there. You drive back, walk there. It's like, I just feel like it's not the best use of time. So you have to get really good at getting, like, a good realtor on your team to sell your deals because they really can add a ton of value.

Steve: Do you have do you equip the realtors with a checklist that you guys use?

Greg: Yeah. The scope of work. We We give them the scope of work, and we give the contract. Like, we make every contractor sign a scope of work.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And it's just clear, like, how you're getting paid, what's getting done, what the timeline is, what the budget is, what the penalty is. If you don't finish on time, we usually have a little reward if they finish before time. Mhmm. And, like, that's documented. It's signed, and then we give it to everybody.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: So we know, like, this is the plan here. And then if there's hiccups, you know, we deal with them as they come.

Steve: So let's dive deeper into that. So scope of work. Let's talk about the initial scope of work. Yeah. Who comes up with the scope of work?

Me. How are you coming up with the scope of work?

Greg: Pictures and a video walk through.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. So you have the pictures and a video walk through from someone else's boots in the ground or from the homeowner?

Greg: Either from the realtor who's gonna get the listing on the back end or the contractor.

Steve: Okay.

Greg: Homeowner would be great, but some of these sellers, they're they're not sending you pictures. Yeah. They can barely get on their email account. They

Steve: or they might be selective on their photos.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. I've seen that.

Steve: Yeah. He's just Okay. So let's just say the realtor contractor. Yeah. So they walk through.

They take a bunch of photos and do a video walk through. Yeah. And from that, you create the scope of work.

Greg: I create the scope of work because I'll go through that whole I'd like the video at the end because I can, like, literally just pause it, and I'll go through and I'll say, alright. And the first thing I do is, are we gonna gut renovate this house, or are we gonna, like, do, like, a paint and polish kind of thing? Mhmm. Because if it's, like, a decent condition, maybe it just smells like cigarette smoke or something, I'm not gonna go crazy. Like, I'll keep the cabinets usually.

I'll put new appliances in. So I just go through, like, the whole house room by room and see, like, what do we need to do to get it to the number that we wanna sell it for. Mhmm. Right? A lot of times, like, people go crazy over ARV.

Most of the comps are not ARV. They're as is. It's like the innovation model. It's like you you just gotta get the house comparable to where you wanna sell it at. It doesn't need to be this crazy, like, got renovated number a lot of time.

Right. So I go through that.

Steve: Okay. So you create a scope of work. I'm assuming you have some sort of PDF or Excel sheet or something that you just kinda, like,

Greg: Yeah. I use a Google Sheet. Yeah. Yeah. I just go through the item and then the cost.

Steve: Right. So you got the scope of work.

Greg: Yep. And

Steve: you hand it off to the contractor. Yeah. And then he gives you a bid off bid off of it.

Greg: Well, he gives, like, basically, I give him the scope of work, and that's after he's seen the house, and I kinda know his price, generally speaking. But I like to take the contractor's price and itemize it out. Mhmm. Because if he says $50, I need to know what is Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Like, I need to itemize the whole thing out so then he knows, like, the most important thing is, like, how much money is he getting to start, and then how is he gonna get paid next. Right? So, like, you're gonna get $5 to start to demo. And then after you demo, you start drywalling, and then you're gonna get your next installment. Because a lot of, like, rehabbers or new rehabbers, the experience wants to do this.

They'll just give the contractor, like, 25 k, and, you know, you might not hear from him again. Yeah. So you gotta keep them motivated to keep coming back to you to get paid.

Steve: Right. That's

Greg: where I and I've made that mistake in the past, like, just giving too much money upfront, and then, like, they're just taking their time or they leave.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. The I have I haven't had to deal with them leaving. There's a lot of nightmare stories about that. I had plenty of nightmares.

They're like, so when you go back to the property Oh, it's terrible.

Greg: Especially when you're not there. Right? I'm not even there. I can't just chase them around. I'm like, hey, dude.

Like, you gotta finish this job. You got 25 k for me.

Steve: So now they're are they sending updated photos and videos to get draws?

Greg: So the contractor or the realtor will send me pictures of the work and the progress. And then once I verify that, I'll send him the the

Steve: You send him one way. Yeah. Right.

Greg: Dollar wire.

Steve: Talk to me about the the language for reward or penalty for for timely.

Greg: So, like, if they finish, like, a week early or something, maybe give them an extra 500 or a thousand dollars. But, like, with the penalty stuff, if they like, it's just clear. It's like a clear document. It's super easy to read. It's like, if you don't finish the job based on what we talked about, not new stuff that may have came up after the fact, you're gonna get, you know, a $500 per week penalty.

So then, like, you have an incentive to keep it on track. Because a lot of these guys, if you pay them upfront, they don't have an incentive to really deliver that product on a on, like, a good timeline. So if if you're just paying them in little dribbles, they're gonna be more motivated to get it done completed by, like, you know, December 20, $500 a day or a week usually a week or a day would be crazy. Yeah. But, that just keeps them accountable.

And then, like, a lot of the times too, it's like, if you give them a scope of work and it's a clear document and they're like, I don't think I could do this in that timeline. Before you sign it, you can, you know, negotiate Mhmm. Maybe get a lower price or extend it out, but you just get the contractor set up to where you're hoping their success. Like, you're you're hoping that they're gonna follow that document. And but one's in New York, you generally do.

Delaware, that's been a different story. I don't know what it is. Maybe something in the water down there.

Steve: What's I mean, what is happening in Delaware?

Greg: So bad realtor, which we won't get into, that was a problem with a bad communication with buyers so that we solve that over the summer, but that was a nightmare. And then the contractor was very, like, motivated to get the job, and I would pay him in dribbles, but the quality of work wasn't good. And Brett and I didn't do a good enough job because he's local, really verifying it because we thought it was just gonna be like New York. So, like, we did a rehab in Delaware County, PA, which is right near the state of Delaware. Mhmm.

And, like, the stove wasn't plugged in. The whole house looked like crap. All, like, the little nooks and crannies were, like, it just looked horrible. Mhmm. And it didn't sell.

And I was like, man, like, this product that was garbage, and no one really checked to see what was going on here. And no wonder we're we're having a hard time selling. We all sell it for a $20,000 loss. So Do you guys have,

Steve: things in place where, like because what we've had to do, just because we don't wanna be a burden on our finance person Yeah. Was, like, you had to submit the invoices by Monday, and you wanna get paid on Friday.

Greg: We don't do that. I just whenever I get the picture like, I deal with that myself. Like, when I get the pictures and the videos that show the updated jobs and the realtor's like, hey. This looks good. Mhmm.

I'll just pay him the wire or Zelle. Okay. But I only do that after I see the pictures. Right. And he knows that.

Like, the New York guy knows that. Like, he he knows I pay fast when you do the

Steve: work. Yeah.

Greg: Right? Like, I'll pay in the same day, but you gotta have that worked on.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. I know you said you don't wanna get into it, but crappy realtor was

Greg: Oh, man. Just a bit well well, the the first time, there's multiple multiple offenses here, but, you know, we had a deal. I'm not gonna mention the names, obviously, but we had a deal To protect the public. Yes. Exactly.

But we had a house, and we didn't do a full blown rehab because we didn't need to. Because we were like, if we sell at this price, we don't need to gut renovate it. Mhmm. Not not necessary. Put it on the market, priced accordingly, got a buyer right away, and the buyer was just dragging us to the mud.

And I was like to the realtor, I'm like, listen, dude. Like, this buyer's gonna keep asking for this crap. I'll pull the deal. Like, I don't need to sell. Like, we took it over sub two.

So we had, like, cheap debt on it. And I was like, alright.

Steve: Like, whatever. Buyer

Greg: keeps asking for more requests. I'm like, some of the stuff was reasonable. Some of it was unreasonable. I did all the reasonable stuff, and then I was in Japan this summer. I got a call saying the buyer backed out.

Mhmm. And they had no, like, inspect like, there was no contingencies or anything. Whole deal blew up over the communication. And I'm like, man, we we could have prevented this, like, easily two or three weeks ago. Like, I kept saying, like, if they don't wanna buy it, like, I'll give them their deposit back.

They can walk. I'll sell to someone else. Mhmm. They killed the deal. I'm in Japan.

I'm all pissed off. I'm like, this is a waste of my time. And at that price, we were gonna make, like, $25 or something. So it was, like, decent profit, but a lot of work and a lot of drama. So that deal dies.

I'm pissed off. I'm, like, holding their deposit hostage now. I'm, like, they're not getting this deposit back. And, like, they got attorney. They were trying to sue.

Steve: How much is the deposit?

Greg: Like, $5. Nothing crazy. But I was, like, yeah. I'll prove a point. Mhmm.

So Principles. Exactly. So I told the realtor. I said, hey. It's all good, but I gotta get you off this listing.

So we got the paperwork squared away where they were no longer obligated to sell my house. Got another realtor involved. Sold it in a weekend. No BS. No could like, this and the thing is this other realtor called Brett, because Brett lives there, what the little things we have to do to get the thing to sell, like, two seconds without any resistance.

We did those things. It was, like, $34.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: Sell the property, got a better number. We ended up netting 47,000 and closed in three weeks. Mhmm. And we set the expectations right. Right?

And I was just like, wow. Like, the point was, like, when you have a good team Mhmm. Like, realty team, it's so much easier to sell those properties. But when you have a bad realty team, you could think you're making all this money. You can, like, oh my god.

I'm gonna make whatever, and the whole deal could blow

Steve: up. Right.

Greg: So it was just a poor execution on the first deal. And once we learn that lesson, now we don't do

Steve: that anymore. We have So someone right now okay. First of all, I'm just thinking, like, you're flipping virtually.

Greg: Yeah. Now a

Steve: lot of people flip virtually.

Greg: Yeah. A

Steve: lot of people wholesale virtually.

Greg: Yeah. Wholesaling virtually is much easier. Yeah.

Steve: So you like to flip virtually, which is a whole different thing.

Greg: Yes.

Steve: But you learn lessons in vetting the realtors. Yeah. So now that you know these lessons, what should our listeners be doing to vet realtors before they hire one?

Greg: Yep. You gotta make sure that they sell a lot of homes locally. Right? The one first one I found, that was not the case necessarily. Like, they definitely knew what they were doing in terms of, like, volume, but they just didn't they weren't around that long.

They were kinda new, but they still did a decent amount of business. But the the the main thing you wanna look for is how much experience do they have? Are they selling a lot of local homes? Like, you can go on Zillow and just see, like, all all the homes that sold, and if there's, like, a trend on it, maybe there's, like, two or three realtors that really sell most of those houses. So that's the first thing you gotta look for.

The second thing is you gotta have the realtor tell you the truth. Like, you don't want the realtor to, like, oh, yeah. This will sell at this price. No problem. Like, you don't have to do anything, and then, like, you get disappointed down the line because, like, that's not the case.

Steve: And the overpromptied over.

Greg: Yeah. The second realtor we work with was like, hey. You gotta do these things. And if you do these things, I know you probably don't wanna do these things because, you know, who wants to spend more money after you've already spent a considerable amount. Mhmm.

But if you do these things, you're gonna be able to get this thing sold at this number most likely. And, like, they're kinda like what do they call? Oh, under promise, over deliver. Mhmm. It's having the realtor set the right expectations with you.

Right? Yeah. And because it's easy for a realtor to say, like, oh, it'll sell at this price. Because if it doesn't sell at that price, they're not the one writing the interest check.

Steve: Right.

Greg: But the good realtors wanna move inventory quick, and they just wanna do volume. And they're not gonna take a listing that's kinda, like, either really screwed up that's gonna need work after the fact, or they're telling you a price that's just not realistic.

Steve: So Yeah. Unfortunately, there are a lot of those out there. Yeah. So I know we've been talking about, you know, millionaire, in seven years before we get to there. So how I first heard about you was not as a wholesaler.

No. No. Right? I know where this is going. Yeah.

The very first time I heard about you was you were the advanced sales coach

Greg: Yes.

Steve: In the Midwest revenue group.

Greg: RBI sales academy.

Steve: RBI sales academy. Right? So you go to one of John's events.

Greg: Yep.

Steve: And once you finish this event, there's another level Yep. Upsell in some way. Yep. Right? And in that upsell, you got to work with Greg.

Greg: Yes.

Steve: Right? And Greg was more of the the way it was explained to me Yeah. Was, like, more of the corporate not corporate, but more of the if you're running a sales team. Yeah. Right?

So you go to John's event

Greg: It's more for the masses.

Steve: Yeah. If you're learning how to wholesale, you're getting to this business, okay, you got you go to John. But now that you've experienced John and you're ready for next level training, you go to Greg. Yeah. So talk to me about how you got into that position as such.

I mean, you're 28 today.

Greg: Yeah. I was, like, 23, man. Yeah.

Steve: I mean, I had about this five years ago.

Greg: Yeah. That was crazy. I had no facial hair or anything. No bags under my eyes. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. God. So talk to me how you got into that position. That's gotta be an interesting That

Greg: was an interesting story. So Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. So, basically, one of the problems I had in the beginning was obviously no money, no experience, but I did not know how to sell formulaically. I was, like, just going on appointments, winging it out.

I remember I got kicked out of this guy's house one time. Yeah. We got kicked out of the house.

Steve: Oh, okay. So before I continue, why do you get kicked out of the house?

Greg: So Pearl River, New York, it was, like, November, god knows how long ago. And I remember the guy was in pre foreclosure who called off a band sign, and I'm like, oh my god. Like, I didn't know what a deal was. I'm like, this is a deal. It's gotta be a deal.

I brought my mentor, Frank Sanchez, with me. I'm like, why don't we do this? You come on this appointment with me. I'll wholesale it to you directly. Just watch me get the deal on, like, with the seller, like, accepted because you can't sign contracts in New York.

Yeah. Go to this guy's house. He's in his pajamas. He's, like, waiting for me by the door. I walk around the house.

He's just pissed off. I had no idea what I was doing, just winging it.

Steve: Pissed off at you or pissed off at him. Pissed off

Greg: at me, pissed off at the situation. It's, like, 12:00. He's in the pajamas, you know, just pissed off guy. And these this is, like, an area where, like, there's a lot of just angry people in, like, Pearl River, Rockham County. So it's, like, expensive.

Okay. So I remember we walked the house, and I'm trying to, like, ask him why he's like, I just didn't know what I was doing. I had no system in place. Mhmm. And I remember I went to go sit down to, like, pitch the offer, and I sat down, and he was standing up above me like this.

It's, like, looking at me. And then once I got a couple words, I mean, he's like, just get out of here. Just get out of here right now. Like, I don't need this. This is a waste of my time.

He just kicked me out of the house. I walked out of the house and I was like, Frank, I'm sorry, man. I don't know what the hell's going on here. And I sat in my car and I was like, I need to learn how to sell because I have no system in place now. When that's going or right after that, I remember I went on Facebook, and I saw

Steve: this What did Frank say?

Greg: Frank was like, ah, man. It is what it is, man. You're not gonna get every house. But I'm just I just didn't I just didn't feel comfortable not knowing what I was doing because I was You

Steve: didn't. But did he have, like, here's what you did wrong, or he was like, this is

Greg: was just like, hey, man. It's all good. Like, he didn't wanna he knew I was pissed off. I was, like, really, like, just kinda, like, embarrassed about it. But, anyway so I'm in my car, and I'm just like, I need to figure out how to sell.

Like, there's there's gotta be a way to do this that works. And even the truth is he probably was an unqualified lead that was never gonna sell, but I had no idea even I didn't even know how to identify that. Yeah.

Steve: You can't filter yet.

Greg: Yeah. I had no idea. Like, I probably would have d q'd him on the phone or something. So, anyway, I'm in my car. I come back home, and I'm like, I'm on Facebook, and I see, like, this real estate investing sales training with, like, niche of a niche product.

Steve: Right.

Greg: And I'm like, what the heck? Like Mhmm. I didn't know that existed. So then I look into it. I watch YouTube videos.

I buy his training, John's training at the time. He sold with Jerry ever since. And I joined the training, and I'm like, I'm gonna do everything this guy says to do. Like, I needed to learn how to sell. That was, like, the skill I needed to fill.

Like, that was my pain point because I knew how to get leads at that point. Mhmm. And I remember I joined his training. It was online training, and I did everything he said to do. And I remember he used to give his Voxer access.

So I'd Voxer him, like, three times a day, like Yeah. Scenarios because I was, like, taking it seriously. I would study. I'd listen to my calls. I'd record my calls.

I'd write notes down. I'd go on appointments, and I would just, like, immerse myself in this. Mhmm. And then John, you know, he would do these live calls, and a lot of people would be on them, but no one would wanna volunteer. Like, I would wanna volunteer and, like, ask him questions, and, like, there was, like, you know, 50 people on these calls.

And I kept volunteering. Like, this young kid in New York, like, we barely had a business at the time. Mhmm. And I kept volunteering, and people would, you know, be like, oh, this guy Greg keeps contributing. And then John started to realize that.

Mhmm. And then after some time of doing that, he's like, hey, man. It seems like, you know, you understand this stuff pretty well. And and I was also buying more houses because I, you know, you know, sales training. Right?

Right? I was de queuing people, and I was getting better deals. And he's like, hey. Would you ever wanna work together? And I was like, maybe.

Like, I've been in this training for, like, six months. Like, I'm, you know, I'm sure I built my business, man. And he's

Steve: like, yeah.

Greg: I know. But I I get a lot of people who reach out to me, and they want, like, more training, and I don't really wanna do it. Like, I I just rather have you do it. And I'm like, damn. I can I'm just getting started.

You know? But, anyway, long story short, he was like, what if we launch this, like, sales management training Mhmm. Where, you know, people pay us, you know, monthly fee. We train their sales teams. We listen to their calls.

They just get, like, the material kinda, like, more customized to their needs. Mhmm. So, like, he's, like, I'll get the clients, and we'll, like, do, like, a split of the revenue.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And, like, I was like, okay.

Steve: Sure, man. Like, let's do it.

Greg: And then, like, he got, like, three clients right away. These are, like, big investors. I think, like, you know, Wren was there. Like, a lot of these, like, big invest Eric Brewer. Yeah.

And I was, like, training their sales team. Just, like, you know, a fairly new guy. Yeah. And I, like, by doing that, like, I got really good at the sales training.

Steve: Of course.

Greg: And then I was, like, you know, you learn a lot when you teach. So then I became, like, the go to sales trainer guy, like, kinda, like, out of my butt, honestly. And, you know, I started helping them, and, like, they were getting more deals and, like, they were, like, boxing me. Been like, hey. I did what you told me.

I got this contract. Mhmm. What do I do with the seller? And I was, like, helping them, and then I was helping myself. And it just became, like, Greg is John Martinez's protege.

Mhmm.

Steve: And

Greg: then it got me in a lot of rooms that I probably wouldn't be able to wouldn't have been able to get into. And I was still super young. Right? And I was still building my business. So that's how I got involved with that.

Steve: It's just it's fascinating to imagine. Right? Because you got Eric Brewer up here.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Rhett and Bartlett up here.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Right? But they weren't up here Yeah. When you were started working with them. No. Right?

So, like, you were part of their journey. Yeah. They were part of your journey. Yeah. Right?

And, like, we've all gone these different directions. Yep. But it's just funny to think,

Greg: like crazy, man.

Steve: See what they've accomplished and, like, you were involved in helping their team build out their

Greg: Their sales process. Yeah. It is crazy because I remember, like, the first time I did a one on one sales call, I was so nervous. There's a Zoom call.

Steve: I remember I moved no.

Greg: I don't even know if I was in Cal no. I wasn't even in California then. I was like there was, like, seven people on a Zoom, like, the wholesales team, the owners, and it's me. And I'm like, oh my god. I have to be on the thing for an hour, and I need to make sure I add a lot of value.

Mhmm. And I was nervous. And then I obviously got used to it, and I understood it, and I I had a system for it. Right? So, like, eventually, that wore off, and I wasn't nervous.

But I was just, like, terrified because I was, like, so still kind of new at the time. And for people to pay me to, like, sales train them even though I probably knew more than them, like, the the the teams or whatever. But I was just it was just, like, a weird experience, and it got me super, super uncomfortable. But, like, once I got used to it, I knew how much I could help them, and it really helped me in my business. Like, I gotta give a shout out to, like, the sales academy or whatever.

It was like, that got me in rooms, and it got me known through being associated with that. And that really helped me.

Steve: Well, like I said, that's how I got to know you. Yeah.

Greg: That's how you yeah.

Steve: Right? So when I saw you as a case study, I was like, oh, that's cool because I know Greg. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Greg: Yeah. Helpful thing.

Steve: And, yeah, just the best way to learn something is to teach it

Greg: Is to teach it, man.

Steve: And have and have yourself get picked apart

Greg: or have

Steve: them question you. Yeah. You know? Because there's a couple things here that resonate for me. Right?

So, like, I've said, like, I I've had an incredible blessing. You know, I'll be in the sales trainer in in CG. Right?

Greg: That's amazing.

Steve: Having the best in the country question you Yeah. And having to come up with a good answer really forces you

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: To level up. And the other thing too, you're talking about you're always raising your hand. Like, who's this kid in New York who keeps asking questions. Right?

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: I've always been that guy. Doesn't matter what room it is. Anyone have any questions? Yeah. Like, you know, anyone wanna volunteer?

Like, I'm always the guy. And the worst part for me is I do the same thing in kung fu. Right? And so, like, there are times where I get slapped in the face, like, whatever, you know, swollen lip. But I was like, I wanna learn.

Like, I will be the dummy for everyone else if it makes me better faster.

Greg: Exactly, man. And that's how I was able to get good at selling and negotiating is literally by, like, being a sales trainer and, like, just having to learn it by force. Right. Right? And, like, just once when you and when you do a lot of those calls, like, you start to really figure out what works and what doesn't work.

And I remember, like, after doing that for a couple years, I was like, I can help anybody who has leads Mhmm. And a sales problem. I know what their issue usually is. Mhmm. And because I had all that experience, like, stacked up in a short period of time Alright.

I was like, I had a lot of confidence, and that gave me a lot of confidence. So now I train Brett. Like, he's getting all that free, basically. You know? It's like, you know, because he's had all that knowledge and experience compounded and compressed.

Yeah. And now I, you know, was able to help him, and he's, you know, been tremendously successful working with us. So that was I always, like, forget it. Oh, one more thing. I forgot to mention this.

Yeah. The real way it got big was I would take my recordings and put them in the Facebook group. And then people were like, this guy's putting his own calls out in the public to get scrutinized.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And no one was doing that. Yeah. That's what really, like, got John's super attention.

Steve: Yeah. So having been in this game for a while now Yeah. Do you know what it is about you that is willing to put yourself out there? Because there's only a handful of people that will do that. Right?

I would put myself in that category where I'm willing to put myself out there to be torn apart. Right? Have you figured out what it is? Like, whether it's PI, DISC, MyBrick, whatever it is. Because, like, that is I would say one of the things that if you can find someone who's willing to be vulnerable to get torn apart Yeah.

Will get better In public. Faster. Yep. So if you can hire guys like that Yeah. That'd be great.

Greg: That really yeah. So do

Steve: you know what it is? Because I think that is a magic that that's like a, yeah, magic ingredient Yeah. For success.

Greg: I think it's it's understanding fear. Like and I just was not scared to have people think I might have sucked sales back in the day because I knew that, like, if I put myself out there, the well, and it's it's fear, but then it's looking at the upside and then the downside and comparing the two. Like, the upside is I'm gonna get way better. I'm gonna people are gonna know who I am. People are gonna be able to give me feedback.

The downside is someone might think I'm a clown. I don't I know I'm a clown. Right? Like, I I know I'm a I'm a knucklehead.

Steve: So Worst case is they They

Greg: already think what is probably true. Right? So, like, it just never bothered me. Like, I've said, what's the worst thing happened? Someone's gonna think, oh, he sucks at selling.

Like, whatever.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: If that's the case, how do I get better? Right? Like, how do I get better? So I never really let it like, the fear never really got to me because I knew there was so much more upside than downside. Mhmm.

And then I think also, like, when I was playing hockey, you know, before I got into real estate, I was getting bullied a lot. I was a New Yorker in Boston. Everyone thought I swapped, which I kinda did. So, like, I was kinda used to, like, getting resistance and having people kinda, like, give me crap. So, like, when I got into real estate, like, just I was just desensitized to it.

Right. I just never really, like, let it bother me. Like, getting rejected by sellers just never took it personal.

Steve: Do you know what per profile you are on the predictive index? Strategist. Strategist.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: So high a, low b. Yeah. Lower b. Not necessarily low b.

Greg: What is a I took that, like, a year ago. What what

Steve: is A strategist is someone that is, generally independent, wants to win strong ego.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Right? So rejection is not a problem. Yeah. Right?

Greg: But there

Steve: are a lot of people with high a, so that's not enough

Greg: to

Steve: to put themselves out there. Lower b, which is, don't have a lot of requirement for social approval. Right?

Greg: Sounds like me.

Steve: But then the other thing is a very low c, which means you're driving for results now. Yeah. Not the most understanding person on the planet. Right? Like, that's the big thing.

That's

Greg: why Brett doesn't let me speak to have the sellers because I'm just a maniac. Like, I just don't care. Like, I care, but, like, I'm so, like like, there have been sellers who are, like, I will not speak to Greg. I will only speak to Brett. Yeah.

Because I'm just so objective based.

Steve: Yeah. So you want results now and, like, feelings aren't aren't aren't a consideration. Your car didn't start any this morning, too bad. Right? Like, you're you were supposed to be here this time.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Greg: That is funny.

Steve: So that's the the the driving component. And then the other part with the strategist is the high d, which is the, detail oriented.

Greg: That sounds like me.

Steve: So you can plan and execute. And I I know this profile really well because that's my wife. Right?

Greg: She's a strategist.

Steve: My wife's a strategist. Stephanie Butters is a strategist. Jason Medley, owner, founder of Collective Genius, Frank Kaba. Like, some of the best operators Yeah. Are strategists.

Yeah. And it's that I want to win. I want to win now. Yeah. And here is exactly what has to happen Yeah.

For us to win. Yeah. Whereas I'm more like, I wanna win. Doesn't really matter to me when it happens. Right?

I just wanna win. Yeah. Right? Like, if we win next week, we win next month, we win next year. Like, I just wanna win.

Right? Like, for me, the the time frame doesn't matter, but I'm horrible with details. So, like, I can understand things at a really deep level. But once I understand the details at a deep level, I don't care about the details anymore.

Greg: Yeah. I'm I'm good with details.

Steve: Yeah. But a strategist is, like, paying attention to all the details. And I'll give you another example. Like, my wife will ask me a question. I was like, why do you even think to think about that?

But it's a valuable question. Yeah. It's just a question I would never think about because for me, it's like, you know, whatever happens happens.

Greg: Yeah. It is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting because I I remember taking that test, and I was like, it's I thought I was gonna be captain or Maverick.

I just that's what I assumed. Then they said strategists, and I was like, I, like, read through it. I was like, oh, that makes sense. So I am, like, very, like like, with the rehabs or with, like, the marketing, like, numbers. Like, everything, I just have, like, systematized track.

Yeah. Everything like the r like, just like that's I like that. Like, I really enjoy or, like, something I really love doing is, like, analyzing a deal to see what we can pay for the house. Yeah. Like, taking the ARV, like, just doing all, like, rentals.

I love that. Like, oh, how do I burn this thing and have none of my money in the deal? Right. I could sit in front of a spreadsheet and do that all day.

Steve: Yeah. Well

Greg: because I see that's, like, the path to get my goal.

Steve: Yeah. So strategists

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Generally excellent operators.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And then the I think the big thing, though, going back to the other part, though, was the the high a, low b, which is I wanna win. I don't care what anyone thinks. Yeah. Right?

So I think it has to be a combination of that, whereas captain or Mavericks generally have a higher need for social approval. They're unwilling Interesting. To to be vulnerable. Not to say that all of them, but just less willing versus the the low need for social and I have very low low need for social approval. So I just Yeah.

Put it out there. It's like, yeah. They think I'm an idiot. Like, that's their fault.

Greg: Is what

Steve: it is.

Greg: They already believe that. Like, there's nothing I can do to change it. Right. I don't need I think as long as you believe in yourself, it sounds cheesy, but, like, what do you unless it's like your spouse or something. You guys just want them to like you and your family.

But, yeah, besides that, like And

Steve: that's that low need for social proof. Yeah. It is what it is.

Greg: You know?

Steve: So you just mentioned a moment ago, burning would like to own money. Yeah. So what what what are we doing here?

Greg: That is really what got me to the success level I'm at is Yeah. Buying and holding rental properties. Mhmm. I know a ton of them, but, like, the equity stack you can do in New York with, like, how how expensive the properties are and, like, getting them in a discount. So Burring without any money is is basically buying a property at wholesale price.

Mhmm. Generally, that needs work. Doing the rehab just like you would flip the house, but instead of selling it and making a big spread, you refinance the property. Mhmm. You refinance it, and then you keep the property, and then you just put a renter in there and keep it on the shelf.

Steve: Is there anything you're doing different than, like, the commonly preached remodel?

Greg: Yeah. I gotta give a shout out to Augie Pennev, Phoenix Local. Hey.

Steve: He's right here.

Greg: He coached me on how to do this. So a lot of people talk about the refi as a cash out refi Mhmm. Which is you have to wait usually six to twelve months to do that because they're gonna give you cash on the refi. Mhmm. What he taught me, and this works way better, is you buy a property discount, you borrow all the purchase money, you borrow all the rehab money, you borrow all the closing cost that you would need in the form of the first mortgage from a it has to be from a private lender.

Can't be hard money guy's gonna give you 90%. Right? So you gotta do a private lender. But instead and and and, obviously, this is assuming you're getting a good deal at a discount that you you can refi at 70¢ 70% LTV. Right?

Mhmm. A little technical here. But instead of waiting six to twelve months to do that cash out refi and paying the interest and just dealing with the bank, you do a rate and term refi for what you owe on that first loan.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And you could do that in a month. Like, the last one did it refi in a month after the rehab. So, like, you can basically keep your money moving a lot faster. You're not gonna get cash Mhmm. Right?

Because it's not a cash out refi, but you're also gonna have no money in the deal if you buy it right because the bank just wants to make sure you're just getting your basis recoup, basically. So that's what's really made the difference for us.

Steve: So In terms of getting ready else. Might wanna bet this with an attorney. I don't know. Yeah. Something else I've seen other people do is putting a second note on the property.

Right? So you put a second note on the property. Yeah. And the second note is another company that they own.

Greg: Oh, interesting.

Steve: Right? And so it's like, here's the purchase money. Yeah. Here's a lien. Yeah.

And then when you do the cash out when you do the refi, it's not a cash out refi. It's just reimbursing your lien Yeah. That converts to cash.

Greg: Interesting. I might have to try that before after I speak to an attorney.

Steve: After I speak to an attorney. Right?

Greg: That is smart. Right. It's all about basically having your money move quickly. Yeah. Right?

Because these cash out refis take a long time.

Steve: Yeah. You have to wait six months. It's no good, but you have the cash in in there. Yeah. Then Get

Greg: your money out right away. I mean, the last one I did, I think I made $10, like

Steve: Right.

Greg: Like, a wholesale fee, basically, because I got it so cheap. And I was like, this is I called my mortgage guy. He's like, yeah. We'll do that. I'm like, you'll do the whole thing.

He's like, yeah. I'm like, alright. Where do I sign? It was crazy.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm trying to think, like yeah. I think that's awesome.

Greg: I like the BRRR. Like I said, I've done sub two. I've done owner financing. Those are great, and they can work. But I like the BRRR because it doesn't really deviate you from your core business or our core business of buying houses at wholesale prices, which is different exit strategy.

Like, the sub two and the owner financing can be great, but that's a whole another business. You gotta understand a lot more technical stuff, and it's definitely great.

Steve: Well, explain the nuances.

Greg: Well, I mean, a sub two, like, there's problems with insurance. You gotta know how to do that. Like, you gotta, you know, if you're taking over the the subject to loan and then there's the insurance part of it Mhmm. And you get a second insurance policy to cover that, you know, if there's a claim on the property, like, it it it could be hairy. Right?

Because, like, you might have, you know, fraudulent insurance or something. Like, there's a lot of nuances with that. And then the sellers, you know, credits on the line, they're still kind of in bed with you until you get that loan paid off or sold. Mhmm. Owner financing, I love.

I'm doing owner financing deal right now, 0% interest. But I gotta put, like, 15 down. Mhmm. So, like, you can't really and I could, yeah, I could get private money. Sure.

But, like, I don't wanna be overleveraged. So I think creative deals are great if they're still fundamentally good deals, but I see a lot of creative deals out there that are creative deals, but they don't make any sense.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Greg: If that make you know what I mean? Like It

Steve: makes total sense. It's the, it's creative for the sake of being creative.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. I just I say this all the time on Instagram. Like, just because you can buy a creative deal doesn't mean you should do it. If it makes sense from a deal perspective, sure.

But just just because you could buy a deal sub too, like, if the entry fee is, like, 50 k, like, it's putting 50 k in a deal, is it what's the cash on cash return

Steve: on that? What's the

Greg: point you have?

Steve: You might as well get a mortgage.

Greg: You might as well get a mortgage. Right? Exactly. That's what I say.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, it's, it's like the behind the back pass that's unnecessary.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: For me,

Greg: it's like,

Steve: you just see this behind the back pass. It goes out of bounds. Like Yeah. A simple chest pass or bounce pass.

Greg: Fun.

Steve: Yeah. Right? But you're being creative unnecessarily adding more risk Yeah. To the process.

Greg: Exactly. And another thing I'll say that I've looked at and passed on deals is, like, if you buy a substitute deal with no equity and there's a problem, you don't really have an exit unless you're willing to write a check. So people don't look at that either. Like, the sub two deals that I've done have always had equity, and we've generally flipped them because we don't wanna be in bed with the seller. Mhmm.

But, like, I see a lot of deals. Like, yeah, the mortgage balance is $3.50. The house is worth, you know, $3.60. It's like, I don't know about that.

Steve: Well, unfortunately, there's gonna be a lot of people that that have to learn some lessons. Yes. Like Yes. I agree. I, I had this property that was a rental.

Bought it with some friends. And I had no idea that you can do $20,000 worth of damage in a couple of months in a rental property.

Greg: I've seen that. Right? I had no idea. I have seen that.

Steve: And we didn't budget for it. Oh, yeah. And so, like, this lady moved in. She paid us 3 months upfront. We're like, okay.

That's

Greg: cool. Months upfront?

Steve: Yeah. That's right. Yeah. It's like, that's cool. So you say it's a red flag.

Yeah. I was

Greg: like, that's awesome. Oh, that's a red flag.

Steve: Yeah. Right? Cash?

Greg: They faked you in physical cash. I'd be really running the other way.

Steve: Yeah. I'll I don't remember that part. But I do remember that she was, what was the word I'm looking for? Not cosigned, but, there was, an organization that was like, hey. You know, like, we're supportive of blah blah.

Whatever. Anyway, apparently, she didn't know that you don't have, like, your animals live with you at all times. And so we took a house that we bought distressed, where it was clear the previous occupants. Don't know if they were owners or tenants, but the previous occupants were on meth. Oh my god.

Because there was a lot of, like, self do yourself projects in the property. Right?

Greg: Breaking bad.

Steve: Right. And so we rehab the property, made it rentable livable. And it's the first tenant. And, even though there's three months upfront, it was supposed to be paying every month starting on month one. Yeah.

And, like, month one, like, hey. What's going on? And the second and then after that, we had to start the eviction process. And after two, three months, then we get her out. And we get into the property.

We're like, Squalor.

Greg: What is this? What happened? How does this how does this happen in two months? Right. It's crazy.

Steve: And so 20 k to get it rent ready for the next tenants.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Right? And, fortunately, this time, we all have the ability to do this. Yeah. But you're buying a property with no equity Brutal. And you're cash flowing just a few $100 a month

Greg: Not worth it.

Steve: And you get one of these scenarios Yeah. Right?

Greg: A mess. It's a mess. That's the thing with the creative. I think they're great if they're good deals. But Mhmm.

If a new person doesn't have the resources to do that, now not only are they gonna suffer, but then the seller's gonna suffer. Yeah. Because their their name is on the loan. So you just gotta really know what you're doing and understand the fundamentals of a good real estate deal, whatever that means in your own world. Yeah.

And then make decisions based off that. Yeah. I think the burr is just more straightforward. If you're good at like, we're good at getting deals at discount and flipping them and wholesaling them. Mhmm.

So to do the burr doesn't really screw up our business model that much because we're doing the same thing. We're just not selling the property.

Steve: What's your price point when you're on your burrs?

Greg: Generally, they're, like, under 300 k in New York. Yeah. Because above 300, it's it's very hard. Because in New York, the taxes are high too. It's like some of the taxes are $10 a year.

Steve: Being in New York, I believe it reliably blue states. Very. Any challenges with nonpaying tenants?

Greg: I had a tenant. It took me two years to do an eviction on. He got out earlier this year. Two years.

Steve: Two years. Two years. And it still pencils out.

Greg: Yeah. I got the house for $1.25. It's worth $2.80 right now. I didn't put 40 into it, but still it's a good deal and a great tax write off.

Steve: Okay. Well, that's for me the thing I I I

Greg: I like the tax game in the rentals. That's what really makes a lot of the times, that's what really moved like, gets me excited to do the deals. Like, oh, I can cost seg this thing and offset all

Steve: my active income. Yeah.

Greg: But, yeah, two years, man. Two years doing multiple attorneys, cat and mouse game. I walked in that house after they got out, and it was it was a complete disaster. Like, they left moldy food in the fridge. I almost passed out.

Like, I opened the fridge up, and I was like like, it was bad. Never saw the property until that point.

Steve: Yeah. I I don't know what was going through your head that you opened a fridge. You don't have to learn that lesson once. You'll have to learn that lesson once. Yeah.

But you did it. And Yeah.

Greg: It it was the the I will say that New York people are like, why do you do properties in New York for rental? Mhmm. That's just, like, one of our main markets, but the eviction process there is brutal.

Steve: Like,

Greg: it it if you're lucky, it'll take you six months, if you're lucky. Usually, it's a year.

Steve: Yeah. I can't even imagine having any rental properties in blue states. So, to 28 now. Yeah. Started at 20 years old.

Yeah. So a millionaire in seven years. Yeah. So last year. Yeah.

So how did you become a millionaire in seven years?

Greg: Two things. It was saving the money from doing the active deals, like putting up a lot of money in savings and then using that savings to either invest in the flips to make, like, dollar or triple what we make wholesaling it and or just put in the bank to have four rental properties. Right. And then doing the BRRRR and then getting the equity and stacking that equity up. So it's really saving money to put into flips to then make more profit and then putting the rest in the bank account.

I always have, like, a big cash reserve Mhmm. And then buying properties, doing the BRRRR, and then having that equity build up. That's really the actual, like, strategy on how I did it.

Steve: So is it more on the active income side, or is it on the appreciation? Active.

Greg: For sure. The the the appreciation helped and the equity I got from Burring helped, but the active income has always been the driver for me to be able to do the rentals. Sure. Sure. You know?

Because I have to put 50 k into a rental, you know, for six months. Like, if you don't have that cash sitting around, like, you can't do it.

Steve: So, really, then the focus even though you're buying the rentals Yeah. Isn't that, which is also helping with the tax situation Yes. Is having a successful active income business.

Greg: Yes. That is critical. I see a lot of people try to buy rental property. They have, like, no business, and I'm like, dude, that's not gonna help you, like Right. In the beginning.

Steve: So then in the seven years we're doing this, what would you say? Like, did you have, like, a slow run up and then, like, a few really good years? Has it been steady, you know, steady Eddie? Is it, like, are you you know, like, I had a pretty good run during COVID. Yeah.

That stimmy money was great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, was there like, what would you attribute a lot of

Greg: that to? Business has always done better, like, the year like, the next year has always been better historically. Like, we've always done better the next year so that I've always saved, like, more money every year, and I paid myself more money as an owner every year because the business has done better.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: But the biggest thing in terms of, like, the money management that's helped me is the profit first system. Mhmm. Every time we make a deal happen and there's money that comes in, that money gets strategically allocated into different buckets, tax buckets, savings bucket, marketing bucket, you know, paying the overhead bucket. So all the money that I get in from the business gets managed really strategically kinda like my profile. Yeah.

It's like systematized. Alright. So, like, if we make 20 k, I'm gonna put, like, 5 k savings. I'm gonna put, you know, $4 into marketing. You know, I'm gonna use that money in a very strategic fashion.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: And that helps me save enough money to where when I have a deal I wanna burn, I might have to put money into it. I could do that because I know if I put that 50 k in, I'm gonna have a 100 k of equity. So 50 you know what I mean? So that has really allowed me to to

Steve: do it. So this is kinda so Jason Medley has been on the show. Right? And what he was talking about was, making money is a skill. Yes.

And everyone that's come on the show has learned that skill. And there's a lot of people in this country that are listening to the show that have learned this skill probably at a really high level. Yeah. Keeping the money is a discipline.

Greg: That is so true. It is a discipline.

Steve: It's a completely different skill set Yeah. Or a different, attitude or perspective. Yeah. Right? And so you mentioned profit first, and we had a a good friend, David Richter.

Right? It's profit first luck. For real estate investors. Right? Yeah.

So I know you kinda broke it down, but for those that are, not familiar with Profit First

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: Can you break it down at a more fundamental level?

Greg: Yeah. So it's basically like a money management system because a lot of business owners do a lot of revenue, but it's just, like, all over the place. Right? So, like, what I do I'll just tell you what I do. When we make money as a company from a deal, that whatever it is, $10, $20, 30,000.

It's the same process. Mhmm. That money gets allocated into different bank accounts.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And then those bank accounts hopefully grow over time. So, like, if we bring in $20, I don't just take $20 and put it in the operating account and pay myself no salary. Like, that $20, well, the commissions get paid, all that stuff. What's left over goes for me into a savings account, like, just to save. That's, like, investment stuff, like saving money to do deals.

And then I put money back into marketing so we can get more deals coming in. I put I put just enough money to pay for our overhead for, like, the op expenses. Mhmm. And then I put money in one of my personal checking accounts for myself, just spending money, and then money into, like, a bills account for, like, my bills that I have personally, like, you know, car payment, whatever. So all that money just gets managed.

So, like, anytime there's an expense, it gets paid from a certain bucket. Mhmm. So you can just and then most importantly, pay yourself first. I pay myself that that savings account draw first. Yeah.

And that's what goes in the savings account, and then that's what you used to invest and

Steve: Right.

Greg: You know, create the success.

Steve: So you do distributions per deal, not twice a month?

Greg: Per deal. Per deal.

Steve: Yeah. That's a little different of a wrinkle.

Greg: It is a hairy wrinkle.

Steve: I have

Greg: to yeah. I have Hey. What?

Steve: I do. It works. Yeah.

Greg: I pay myself a decent salary at the end of the year, but, yeah, it's it is a little

Steve: hairy. Hey. Again, I I who am I to question it? I mean

Greg: I just went off the book, man. I went off profit first. I'm like, I remember reading that book a long long time ago before I had, like, the business to where it is now, and I was like, I'm just gonna start doing this from day one. Yeah. But it's like just all gets managed up.

Steve: But it requires discipline. Right? And so the particularly because you flip. Right? Like, I've seen this happen so many times where if someone has a flipping operation, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, which that's kinda like what we dream about.

But at the same time, the cash reserves never grows Yeah. Because it keeps going into the next flip into the next flip. There's earnest

Greg: a never ending treadmill.

Steve: Yeah. There's there's money to have the contractors pay. There's money for hard money payments. Like, it's just always going out. And so it's like

Greg: Your cash poor and accounts receivable rich Right. As a flipper. But I we like to wholesale to offset that. Yeah. Because we gotta offset that because that that is true.

Like, the cash conversion cycle and the cash flow itself, especially if you get hard money Yeah. Is brutal. But the wholesale is, like, pay the bills.

Steve: But it's it's fascinating because I never, not never, but it was I wanna say, like, five years ago. It was the first time I heard this concept that you can go broke being successful.

Greg: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. You can.

Steve: But it happens to flippers all the time. Yeah. Right? So, all although, you know, you talked about, you know, make a bunch of active income, I would attribute more probably more to keeping a larger chunk of active income being disciplined with it. Because, again, it's so easy.

Like, there's this idea of this hustle culture. Yeah. Right? And put it all back in and keep going, going, going. I don't know.

Greg: And Never done that.

Steve: I believe that for a long time in my career.

Greg: Yeah. Just putting the money back into the business.

Steve: Putting back in your business. Right? And it's like how do I put it? It's, there's it's never ending. You can always put more money into the business.

Yeah.

Greg: It's it's always welcoming your money. Yeah. From day one, I've always paid myself a lot because I've like, I want this business for the lifestyle. Right? Like, and if I just keep feeding this business, yeah, it's gonna get more deals, but, like, that habit's gonna grow as the business grows.

So, like, from day one, I always started just saving the money on every deal and, like, just doing it in that like, literally following profit first Mhmm. Like, almost maybe to a fault sometimes where it's, like, I literally do it, like, every time. And it's, like, that was just all I've known.

Steve: Well, it it's it's in alignment with the strategist.

Greg: Yeah. And I have a whole spreadsheet that, like Yeah. Maps everything out. It's funny. Like, every deal for the last, like, three years is just, like, profit first.

It's like all the buckets.

Steve: And I

Greg: have all, like, the Chase accounts, like, the little accounts for all, like, the different it's funny.

Steve: Yeah. No. This is what we do. This is the way we do every time we don't deviate.

Greg: We don't I don't deviate. No. And it's like when a deal club, I'm like, cool. I'm gonna spend twenty minutes managing that money, chopping it up.

Steve: So for you guys watching Profit First for Real Estate Investors by David Richter

Greg: Yep.

Steve: Or you can go and watch the podcast we did with David Richter on real estate instructors.

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: But I commend you for for doing that. You know? It's it's a discipline that, most people don't like to do, especially finances. Like, I can say until I hired a bookkeeper Yeah. It was always like, I'll do it I'll do my books this weekend.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll do my books this weekend. And it was probably I would go, like, nine months at a time.

Greg: Without doing the books.

Steve: Without doing the books. And I go in there and it's like, what was this expense? Right? You gotta go

Greg: in there. Itemize this on QuickBooks?

Steve: Yeah. You gotta check-in the email. Like, okay. You gotta do a search for that dollar amount.

Greg: Yeah. Oh, yeah. You gotta do control f. Yeah.

Steve: You're like,

Greg: what the hell?

Steve: Right. And so, the what you're talking about is is is beyond bookkeeper. But, like, most people that listen are probably in the captain and Maverick profile Yeah. And don't like looking at their books. So, again, you know, the the secret, like, you just kinda shared it here.

And it's such like it's kinda like a boring secret.

Greg: Yeah. Right? It's not exciting. Like, moving money into your checking account is not gonna, like, get you to jump up and down, but I know, like, that system has worked to get me to where I wanna get to. Yeah.

Right? And it's like, I've seen that as we've grown. It's just gotten better. Right? And I'm like, this is how I wanna set up because that's allowed me to buy the rentals.

Like, if I didn't have that money in the savings account personally Mhmm. It would be hard for me to buy that because I'm stealing from the business. It's like, no. I got money is used to buy investment property.

Steve: Right. I like it.

Greg: There's a great example. Like, this was, like, last year. Best rental I bought so far. One bed condo, Newburgh, New York. Not a great area, if we're being honest.

I had a bunch of money sitting from deals, and I got the thing at a decent price. Mhmm. 46,000 or whatever is probably worth, like, 75 at the time. It's gone up since. That That property pays me $600 a month net in my pocket.

There's no mortgage on it. But, like, that was that money was saved by being strategic with every single deal up until that point. Yeah. You know? So it's like that's and I've seen that.

I'm like, oh, wow. That really that made sense. Like, I'm glad I had that money sitting around from being strategic with Profit First

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: To be able to buy that property that's just gonna pay me forever. Yeah. You know?

Steve: So, again, like, the bigger reveal might feel anti climatic, but that's really all it is.

Greg: That's all it is.

Steve: Make a lot of money. Save it. Keep it.

Greg: And keep it. And then use it to buy properties. Yeah. Or, like like, before I started buying the rentals, though, I was like, I would use that money save in savings to buy fix and flips. Mhmm.

Because I'd have to put 50 k into these deals with a hard money line. Then we started getting private money. Mhmm. But, like, that 50 k needed to be spent, and I had it so we could do that deal instead of making 20 k wholesale on it. We made $60 flipping it.

Yeah. So then, like, that 50 k I put into the deal all in made me 60 k. Yeah. So I got my basis back of 50, plus I made my 60. Mhmm.

So, like, I've always, like, really liked kinda, like, managing the money and, like, look. It's just, like, weird. Like, because people know me as, like, a sales trainer, but I really just like looking at numbers.

Steve: So pretty funny. Let's, break this down because there's a few different things. Right? So between wholesaling and flipping. Yeah.

So you mentioned you make more per flip, and that's obvious. Right?

Greg: Yeah.

Steve: The trade offs is the cash conversion cycle.

Greg: Brutal and flipping.

Steve: Alright. So cash conversion cycle, more brain damage and

Greg: More risk too. More risk. Liability.

Steve: I have a

Greg: lot of friends with a slip and fall lawsuits on their flips. Yeah. Lot of friends.

Steve: So more risk, more brain damage. Yeah. More, and you have to make payments. Yeah. And you gotta deal with contractors.

Greg: Yeah. And towns and violations and permits. Yeah. We just keep going all day.

Steve: Right. So for that instance, why do you flip?

Greg: Because a lot of the times, it just makes more sense to do that flip even though there's a lot of garbage associated with it. So, like, for example, if we can make double what we would make wholesaling at flipping it and it's not a crazy project, I'll flip it. Mhmm. Unless there's a cash flow problem. Yeah.

Like, if there's a cash flow problem and, like, we know that flip revenue is gonna come in in five months Mhmm. But we you know, maybe this little tight on deals or whatever Yeah. We'll probably take that wholesale, get the cash in the door to get the marketing back out. But it really depends on the deal. But a lot of times, if it's like we can make 25 wholesaling it without a doubt or 50 plus flipping it, and it's not a huge rehab and we don't need to pay the, like, whatever, we'll do the flip.

Steve: Yeah. So the key here is not huge rehab.

Greg: Not huge rehab.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Like, for me, yeah, it we'll wholetail it. Again, I hate flipping.

Greg: That's yeah. That's the best model, honestly.

Steve: I'll wholetail it. Yeah. It was double. We'll wholetail it. Oh, yeah.

Right.

Greg: No brainer.

Steve: But it was, like, but, actually, I would take that back. Right? It was 20 versus 40. I probably will still take it take the quick 20. I'll probably take the quick 20 versus, like, the longer 40.

Just

Greg: Yeah. Just moving the money. Cash conversion side

Steve: for me.

Greg: In the momentum. It's big for the team too. Like, you know, people don't wanna wait three, four months to get

Steve: Yeah. They get paid faster. Yeah. Yeah.

Greg: I found too, like, a lot of the deals, like and this is before the market changed. Like, before the rates went up, you could make almost the same amount of money wholesaling these deals to these sucker investors. Oh, yeah. Because, like, people would buy houses. Like, I remember the deal in San Diego.

It was, like, I made $70. The flipper made, like, 20. And I was like, what the heck? Like because, like, there was, like, no one, like, no one cared because the rates were so low. Like, everyone wanted to buy houses.

Well, everyone

Steve: was betting on appreciation.

Greg: Yeah. And, like, now it's a lot different. Like, it's still like, a lot of people say, like, oh, it's hard to find buyers now. I've haven't had an issue really finding buyers for wholesale deals now if it's a deal.

Steve: Right.

Greg: Right. That's where, like, the problem is is a lot of people are, like, they're selling these garbage deals to maybe funds or whatever. Mhmm. But now it's changed. So you have to actually have a deal, and then you haven't found an issue with getting buyers.

Yeah.

Steve: So what does your life look like right now? You're talking about a lifestyle. Yeah. And, I think you were saying you're in Japan, and one of your deals kinda went crazy. So what what you you you're doing this for lifestyle.

What's what's the lifestyle you have right now?

Greg: I like I like being able to, like, not have to physically be anywhere. Mhmm. Like, I've just moved to Reno from San Diego and, like, wasn't an issue because I was working remote anyway. So the location independence is big for me. And then, like, the ability to just, like, kinda travel at will.

Like, I went to Japan for a couple days, like, four days. Mhmm. When I went to Japan for four days, which is ridiculous. Yeah.

Steve: It's not really worth the

Greg: It was a lot of travel for four days. But been there, Singapore, Dubai. Like, I just like being able to set the business up to where, like, virtually, I can do any like, do the operation. Right? And then I can travel, like, like, I've gone and see my family for holidays or for New Year's.

Yeah. I come in here for this podcast with you. Like, I don't have to physically be anywhere. So, like, the location independence and the whole virtualization of the business is really what, like, attracted me back in the day, and that's why I wanted to do it in Dallas to, like, prove the the the model. Mhmm.

But it's just not having being tied anywhere. Yeah. Not having to be tied anywhere, like, having to go to an office or having to go on appointments. Right? You can't virtualize that.

Like, if you're going on an appointment, you gotta be local. Right? Having to go see contractors, like, I just don't like doing that. Mhmm. I'll do it once in a while in New York if I'm there, but I really don't enjoy it.

And having that location independence just gives me a lot of happiness.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: Because I I feel like I just have that freedom.

Steve: So the number one thing for you is location independent.

Greg: Yeah. And being able to work wherever.

Steve: Yeah. So, you know, I know I asked you this question before, but for everyone here, San Diego to Reno. Yeah. How did you come to that conclusion?

Greg: Yeah. So I actually went on a ski trip to Reno. Mhmm. And, it was up in, like, Lake Tahoe. It was really nice.

Mhmm. And then I was in went back to San Diego, and I met my girlfriend, and she's from there. And then, you know, I kept going there more and more. And, like, honestly, San Diego, like, is a great spot, but, like, I was kinda getting tired of it because I wasn't from there. And I was just kinda, like, working on my house all day.

You know, I had some fun here and there. But, like, I just was kinda ready to move on and, like, you know, kept going to Reno, and I was like, that's and it's a better business state for taxes too. That doesn't hurt.

Steve: For sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I so I lived in San Diego, and I loved it there.

Yeah. And I spent a lot of time at Tahoe.

Greg: Tahoe is great.

Steve: Not Reno. I want I'll I think I've only been to Reno once, but been went to Tahoe a whole bunch of time. Yeah.

Greg: But it

Steve: was really only just a snowboard and skiing. Right? It was, like, day trips.

Greg: Just doing that this weekend.

Steve: Right. We're great up there. I go from Sacramento, drive an hour and a half Yep. Tahoe. Hit I was at Kirkland and, like

Greg: Kirkwood, Heavenly Kirkwood.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: North Star.

Steve: Yeah. And then go back. Yeah. Right? Fun times.

Greg: I like Reno too because Reno's like it's small, but it's got everything you need. Like, San Diego was always so crowded. Like, if I wanted to go somewhere, it was like, oh my god. Thirty five minutes. Reno, it's like, I can get to the airport in five minutes.

I can get to the gym in five minutes. I I get to the grocery store in five minutes.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: And it has everything. Right? So it's pretty cool there. It's like it's like they call it the biggest little city in the world. Like, it has everything you need, but you don't feel like you're in this big city.

So Interesting.

Steve: What is your why?

Greg: It's a good question. I would say my why is doing what I want with who I want whenever I want and just having total freedom. And, yeah, just having freedom, honestly. Yeah. Like, I got in this like, I didn't have, like, some crazy why when I got into this business.

Like, I always just wanted freedom, the ability to do whatever I wanted. Right. And this business has been, you know, able to allow me to do that. So that's, like, my why. And, like, giving back.

I like giving back and helping people.

Steve: What do

Greg: you what

Steve: do you give back to?

Greg: So this year, did a lot of charity stuff for Christmas. I was able to help a lot of families out who didn't have money for gifts. You know, we're able to contribute to some of those organizations and, you know, get Christmas gifts for people that couldn't afford it. Right? And this business is a vehicle that allows me to do that.

Right? Absolutely. So it's cool

Steve: to do that. What's your biggest struggle today?

Greg: Man, I would say the biggest struggle is really knowing when enough is enough. Not saying I have, like, some ginormous business, but just being like, do I wanna double the business, or do we wanna keep doing what we're doing now and maybe, like, even net more money? Like, it's just that is probably my biggest struggle. Not knowing, like, where I wanna be at from, like, a business standpoint.

Steve: Mhmm.

Greg: And then just being like, alright. Is this do we wanna do this? And and, like, the big theme of 2023 was, like, optimize before expand. Mhmm. Because everyone talks about growth, and I

Steve: see a

Greg: lot of people, they grow, and they get in big trouble. Mhmm. So I was telling the team this year and hiring. I had a hiring issue this year where I really had a bad team member, and it was issue for a while. But really getting really good at what we're doing now and making sure, like, we're going really deep versus going, like, wide with, like, more volume or another market or something like that.

Like, masters of our craft and knowing what our core business is. Like, our core business is not flipping or wholesaling. It's getting deals at a discount. That's our core business. If we can do that, then we figure out how to make money on the house.

Yeah.

Steve: I see

Greg: a lot of people, like, deviate from that. Like, if we can get amazing at getting deals at a discount from sellers, we can figure out the rest.

Steve: Less than single most value.

Greg: That is the most critical thing you can do

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: To anyone. It's getting deals at a discount. Right. That's what you wanna optimize for, not subject to deals or owner finance deals. You get the deals at a discount.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people lose sight of that.

Greg: It's I've lost sight of it before, man. Mhmm. I have to keep checking in because it's like, that's what makes the money.

Steve: Right.

Greg: It's getting the deals.

Steve: And the single most valuable skill is being able to find the motivated seller and lock in that contract up.

Greg: That is it. If you can do that, you know, you'll always make money.

Steve: What was the situation with a bad hire?

Greg: Hired a lead manager from a referral and, you know, thought she was gonna be decent. But that's a tough role too because you're talking to sellers on the front line. Mhmm. And just was never the right fit for that role and constantly kept training and training and training and training, and there's never improvement. Didn't know when to fire, and then just kinda kept letting it go.

And then the ball kept getting dropped, we kept training and training and training and training and training. Yeah. And it's like, you can't steer a parked car. So after enough time, we were like, alright. We gotta just do a performance improvement plan again for the third time.

And then if it's not there, we're gonna just have to get rid of her, but then we're gonna have to go back to Brett being on the phone a lot. Right? So just the lesson I learned from that was don't just like, if someone really stinks, get rid of them pretty quickly.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: Like, we let that linger for seven months. It's terrible. Even for them too. It was, like, we did them a disservice by keeping them on that long. That's how I thought about it.

Steve: Why do you think because you know this. Like, logically, you're aware of this. Yeah. But you still hold on. And look.

I'm I'm Yeah. That's hard time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm guilty of this as well. Oh, yeah. I've hold on to too many people for for far too long as well. Yeah. So why do you think we do that?

Greg: I think we do that because we don't want like, it is inconvenient to hire somebody else and go through that process. Mhmm. So it's like, I might as well keep them on for now until they're really bad. Mhmm.

Steve: Because I

Greg: don't wanna have to go back and hire someone else out because that's a pain in the butt. Yeah. That was my logic behind it. But then once I got rid of her and I got my new guy, he's way better. I had to go through that process again to hire somebody, but now, like, I'm here doing the show, and Yeah.

I don't have to constantly be like, oh, did you call a lead back or whatever? Like, it's just you get the right person. You can teach them the skills. Mhmm. You can't teach the skills to the wrong person.

I've learned that the hard way. Right? Like, you cannot teach the wrong person skills.

Steve: It's possible. Someone called me out. Right? It's like, oh, so you would coach someone else to get rid of that person, and you're so bad that person? It's like, okay.

You're right. Yeah. I'll get I'll go get rid of that person.

Greg: Yeah. I found too, like, with getting people, it's like like Brett, for example. You know, he's basically a partner at this point. Like, he's an internally motivated person. Mhmm.

Right? So I can't control that. But once I gave him the skills, he took off.

Steve: Right.

Greg: But if you hire someone who is not motivated or they're not a good fit for a lead manager or whatever it is Mhmm. You can give them all the training you want. They're gonna not be successful.

Steve: No. Yeah. This the the term we call it was, had to come batteries included. Right?

Greg: Never heard that. Yeah. Batteries need to be there. Yeah.

Steve: If they don't come batteries included, there's nothing you can do.

Greg: Big trouble.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. How do you stay motivated?

Greg: How do I stay motivated? I I don't know. I just feel like I've been doing this for eight years now, and it's like, I like the results I've been getting so far. So if I wanna keep these results or get better results, I gotta just keep doing what I did Yeah. Right, and keep getting better.

And I just feel like this business too, like, if you compare it to, like, if I had to have a corporate job and go to the office every day. Like, I look at my situation, I'm like, yeah. There are some bad days in business for sure that drive me nuts. But at the end of the day, like, it's a pretty good setup. Right.

It's a pretty good setup. Work from anywhere. You know, I gotta deal with crazy sellers a lot. But at the end of the day, like, you always can compare your situation to a worse situation and reframe it.

Steve: Yeah.

Greg: And then be grateful. Right.

Steve: And

Greg: staying I I try to stay very grateful. Like, just what am I grateful for today?

Steve: How do you measure success?

Greg: I measure success probably by it's just taking what my goals are and seeing if I'm making progress towards them every day. Mhmm. Right? It's not like a dollar amount. It's not like a deal volume thing.

It's like, what are my goals, and am I taking steps towards those goals every day? Because if I do that over time, I'll hit them. Real simple.

Steve: Real simple. Yeah. What's your superpower?

Greg: And after we had that PI discussion, I think it's probably more the the strategy probably, like, the strategy behind the plan. It's, like, not just being, like, all, like, big picture person. Like, I like to actually, like, take that big picture and really, like, map out how we're gonna get there. Mhmm. And that's something that gives me a lot of energy.

Steve: Yeah. Right? Well, it makes a lot of sense.

Greg: Yeah. That's probably my biggest thing. Because if I was more just, like, big picture, I'd probably be, like, all lost in it. But, like, I like the details, and I like being able to say, like, if we wanna do this goal, this is the marketing we have to do. This is what the conversion rate needs to look like.

This is the systems we gotta have, and, like, I can see that that system will get us to the goal. So it's, like, believable.

Steve: Right.

Greg: I think that's something I like to spend a lot of time on. Like, I've been spending a lot of time planning 2024. Mhmm. And just, like, reverse engineering the marketing, reverse engineering the sales process, looking at our conversion rate, looking at our channels. What channel converts the worst?

What channel converts the best? Why is that? Like, I like to just sit there and, like, analyze it and that You

Steve: like looking at dashboards?

Greg: Yeah. Spreadsheets. I like Google Sheets better than Excel too. Google Sheets.

Steve: Google Sheets is good.

Greg: I take it all over with me. It's on my phone. It's on my computer.

Steve: Google Sheets is good. I I can't knock Google Sheets. We use the Google Sheets way, way too much.

Greg: Yeah. Right? Too. But Everything's a spreadsheet for me.

Steve: But it's, I guess, say, as far as even though we use QuickBooks Yeah. We still use sheets to do some calculations Yeah. And that. And then compensation, right, we just download from Stripe and Kartra, and we just plug it into the sheets, and then we have the compensation. Right.

There's so much the commissions were.

Greg: Exactly. Yeah. You're right through Zapier. The whole system. And persistence.

That's another superpower. I think in the beginning, it was, like, just persistence. Because in the beginning Yeah.

Steve: Nine months, your first deal.

Greg: Persistence. What do they say? Persistence breaks resistance. It's like if you just keep, like but there's persistence is tricky though because you can persistently do the wrong thing and go absolutely nowhere with a bad strategy. Right.

But if you have a like, this business works, like, there's enough people having success wholesaling and flipping, like, it clearly works. Mhmm. So if you persist with the right strategy, that's where you're gonna find success. But if you just consistently do the wrong things over and over and over again Mhmm. You gotta change your strategy.

Yeah. Remember reading that in Perry Marshall's book. I was like, oh my god. Yeah. That makes so much sense.

Which book? Eighty twenty sales and marketing. Yeah. Is my favorite sales and marketing book.

Steve: It's a fantastic book.

Greg: Like, the best marketing book. Oh, it's so good.

Steve: It's interesting he calls it eighty twenty sales and marketing because it's a marketing book.

Greg: It's eighty twenty marketing.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Right? But but it it it was an incredible book. Right?

And, we had a conversation yesterday during annual planning. And so I brought a billboard. I was like, look. We have to go in order of direct response.

Greg: Yeah. Billboards are like the last one. Last.

Steve: Yeah. Right?

Greg: First one's PPC.

Steve: Yeah. PPC, TV, direct mail. We got we have we have to gone beyond the point of, was it, this is a point where it's no longer effective. I can't remember the exact term.

Greg: Diminishing returns.

Steve: Diminishing returns. Yeah. We have to get past the point of diminishing returns.

Greg: Before you try another channel.

Steve: Before we try billboards. Yeah. Like like Billboards. I appreciate you guys saying that we wanna do billboards, but let's let's max out all these other things.

Greg: I'd rather do TV than billboards.

Steve: Oh, for sure.

Greg: Yeah. I billboards

Steve: laugh, and Perry talks about that Yeah. In the book. It's a great book.

Greg: That's a great book. If anyone wants to like, if someone just read that book 10 times and implemented it, they would really have their act together.

Steve: Yeah. That was a great, great book. So Perry Marshall's 8020 marketing. What's your biggest regret?

Greg: My biggest regret is probably not keeping all of these houses I flipped and wholesale. Disgusting. I look at so, like, there's a example, Monroe, New York where I'm from, born and raised, like, very expensive area near the city. I sold the flip top of the market at the time, March. That was in 2021.

It's 05/25 right now.

Steve: Yeah. And

Greg: I bought it for $1.60.

Steve: We had a So a property that we had to sell. So that that nightmare property with a tenant with a 20 k damage. Right? So in order Disaster. In order to move that property and get it off our books because it was not good Yeah.

Right? It's before the market returned. So

Greg: Oh, this is somewhat recent.

Steve: No. No. I was saying I'm saying, like, in 2011, 2012.

Greg: When the market was really bad.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Right? It's like, okay. Like, we're just getting rid

Greg: of this thing. This thing. Yeah. Right.

Steve: In order to get rid of the property, we had to sell our property in Austin, which is consistently cash flow. Oh. And I look at this property in Austin now. Yeah. It's like, oh, man.

Greg: That thing went up probably $2,300.

Steve: More than that. Oh.

Greg: Alright. Austin is a hot market.

Steve: Yeah. Like, if if there's any one property I wish I kept, it would be about Austin. That Austin property. Yeah.

Greg: Yeah. It's brutal. Like, I mean, it's but at the same time, I'm like, okay. I needed that money to grow my business. So it's like you could always I could say that for days.

Like, oh, I wish I didn't the 200 and something deals. I wish I kept that.

Steve: That that one we're trying to, like, get off the books and just get it off

Greg: to the bank.

Steve: We could just give it back to the bank, kept that off the property. Right? But, you know, you don't know. You don't know what you don't know.

Greg: You don't know what you don't know. And I I think the rentals too that when you get in a bad situation with a tenant, it it's just you just wanna get out of there, man. It's just painful as an owner.

Steve: What book have you gifted more than any other?

Greg: The compound effect by Darren Hardy. Yeah. I still have 10 copies in my office just giving them out to people. Yeah. That's the best book.

Steve: Why why why that book?

Greg: Because it's so simple to execute on. That's the truth. It's if you just read that book and execute

Steve: it, that Yeah. So you're not really, like, inspiring, like, oh, he's got this big secret. It's like, no. You just

Greg: do the work. Just do the work. Just do the work. But that book, like, makes it, like, permission for it to be that simple.

Steve: Yeah. You know

Greg: what I mean? It's like choices, habits, momentum, associations, and then the force multiplier effect. Yeah. That's that whole book. That's, like, the six chapters, but it's like, you just do those and implement it.

Like, that will give you success in any business.

Steve: Any business. Right? And, like, Darren Hardy, like, I think, of all the coaches, right, like, I think I've given him the most money. Right?

Greg: Dude, he loves getting money. He's great at it.

Steve: He's great at it.

Greg: He's great at it. I did his, Jesus. Business master class? No. Not that.

What's the one before?

Steve: Hero's journey?

Greg: Yes. Yeah. That one. That was good. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I did hero's journey with Auggie.

Greg: Oh, you did? Yeah.

Steve: So Auggie and I did we did it together. Yeah. It was Auggie, Jason Lewis, and a few other people. Yeah. We went through hero's journey together.

But, yeah, like, it's just it's simple. Everything you said today was simple Yeah. But not easy.

Greg: No. And it requires a massive discipline. Massive consistency. Yeah. That's why I love, like, listening to, like, Brian Tracy, Jim Rohn, Darren Hardy.

Like, those guys just keep it real. Yeah. All night and Gail. Yeah. Like, that's just that's easy stuff.

You just execute that, and that's all you need.

Steve: But it's so much easier to find the magic pill off of social media.

Greg: Yeah. Right? The AI bot hack Yeah. Chat GPT special. Yeah.

I mean, it's I wish it was that easy, but it's not. It's not. Definitely the compound effect. Yeah. It's the gift I've

Steve: Alright. I want you to think about a a message, that you're, leave all the listeners with while I make a couple of quick announcements. Let's see here. So it's twentieth, so this will be coming out, I think, potentially beginning of the year. Sweet.

So right around that time, we'll have launched our new podcast, close more sales. So we're launching a new podcast, close more sales. I think by then, the website should probably be upclosemoresales.com, and then we're gonna have to have you back on

Greg: Yes. Because that's

Steve: the podcast where we talk only about sales.

Greg: In person or virtual?

Steve: I would think in person would be better, but that's totally your call. Okay. We don't have the same requirements for that podcast, at least not yet. Okay. We will, but not yet.

But I think, you know, it'd be awesome to have

Greg: you back from Reno, man.

Steve: Yeah. Our Wonderful to have you back on for our close more sales podcast. So keep an eye out. Closemoresales.com. We saw a part of the disruption, certainty talks.

Make sure you check out those shows as well. What is some last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners with?

Greg: I would say that it depends on where you're at in your journey. But this business, if you just give it your all and you commit and you study your craft and you master it, it can give you the life of your dreams. Yeah. Simple. Simple.

Simple.

Steve: Someone wants to get a hold of you. What's the best way for them to do that?

Greg: Probably two ways. Greg at velocityhousebuyers.com or my Instagram at greggo underscore thirty seven.

Steve: Greggo thirty. Is that is that your hockey?

Greg: Skateboarding nickname from middle school.

Steve: Greggo.

Greg: Greggo, g r e g o.

Steve: Yeah. I love it.

Greg: That's it.

Steve: Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on.

Greg: Thanks for having me.

Steve: Thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you guys next time. Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. We real estate disrupt us.