From $76 Bank Account To Multi-Million Real Estate Businesses

Steve Trang: Our dispo

Max Vollmer: Shout out to Steve Trane. Jump on the Steve Trane. We real estate disruptors.

Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disrupters. Today, we've got Max and Katie Vollmer with Vollmer Real Estate Investments, and they flew in from Tampa, Florida to talk about how they went from two pro college students to multimillion dollar real estate businesses. Now I am on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years.

If you'll take consistent action, you will become one. And this show is brought to you by our sister company, Investor Lift. Get access to over 2,000,000 cash buyers across the country. Go Go to investorlift.com, put in disruptors to get 10% off. And if you get value today, please tag it from below.

Share this episode right now. That way, we can all grow together. And this is a live show. So please ask your questions for Max and Katie to answer. You ready?

Max: You're ready. Thanks for having us. Yeah.

Steve: Thanks, Steve. My my pleasure. So, first question is, what was life like right before you got into real estate?

Katie Vollmer: Stressful. Life was normal. It was slow. We didn't have much going on besides school and occasional family time during, you know, spring break and whatnot, but our day to day was so basic. It was the same routine every single day, and it was quite frankly boring.

So

Max: Yeah. I mean, pretty much just a a college lifestyle. Right? I mean, I went to we both went to school. We both trained.

I was doing track and field. So it was a mix between going to practice and and then going to classes, you know, studying and all those kind of things. And then, eventually, we had to obviously turn around, but I think it was it was definitely not the typical lifestyle because from the athlete background. Right? So there was a lot of stuff going on, competitions going on, international meets, competing for Germany.

There was always, you know, that kind of pressure. Clearly, when when we started going into real estate and starting that business, it it added more complexity to the day to day tasks. Sure.

Steve: So you guys are both in college?

Katie: Mhmm. Yeah.

Steve: And then you're you're also competing?

Katie: I was. I went to community college, about ten minutes from where Max was. And so my athletic life wasn't as crazy as his. The d one athlete, was much more involved and and busy than mine. I was, What

Steve: were you doing?

Katie: Volleyball.

Steve: Volleyball?

Katie: Yeah. Community college.

Max: Okay.

Steve: So you're playing volleyball? Yeah. Right? So you're competing. So you got the sport component.

Yeah. You got the, school component.

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: And then you guys met in college. Mhmm.

Katie: Yep. Sophomore year.

Steve: So was it real estate and you guys connected or you guys connected and say, hey. We should do real estate together.

Max: No. We we actually met at our first it was my first college party. Right? I came from Germany, and I was here for interrupted him. Yeah.

Yeah. Got it.

Katie: My last

Max: college party. Yeah. And, you know, I saw the movies about The US college parties. I was like, no. It's gonna be amazing.

And so, eventually, I obviously, I was, like, always a 100% committed to sports. So I never, like, drink alcohol, no drugs, nothing. I was always a 100% athlete, so I never actually went to any parties. But that weekend was different because I had some issues so much in from just overtraining. So that week, I did not go to the competition I was supposed to go to.

So I was basically at home with some of my teammates and, like, hey. You know what? There's, like, an athlete party. Some of the baseball guys are throwing something local. It's gonna be relaxed.

Nothing crazy. Let's go out there. And And I was like, you know what? I'm out there. I'm not competing.

Might as well get my, you know, my my head my head clear. And, so I went there, first college party, met her there, last college party, and everything after is history. So real estate did not bring us together for sure not. We had no idea about real estate at all even when we started that business. You know, we kinda, like, learned swimming while being in the ocean.

That's what I always tell people, because we had no time. Right? We had no money and no background or comfort. So we had to, like, learn it while doing it. There was no time to go in and educate yourself for five, six months, which it's a blessing and, of course, in both ways.

But, we met, and it was for both of us, it was, like, an instant, you know, we saw each other, and, like, she knew and I knew. And it was like

Katie: Actually, I was with a group of girls, and they were all talking about how cute he was and I was like, yeah. He's he's pretty damn cute. Mhmm. I actually thought he was out of my league so I was like, I'm gonna pass, you know. I'm not gonna let myself down tonight.

Right. But then a girl I was with, she was like, Katie, can you go talk to him and let him know I think he's cute for me? And I was like, sure. Had a couple shots in me, so I was like feeling a little ballsy.

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: So I went up to him and I was like, hey. My girl thinks you're super cute. You should go talk to her. She's beautiful. And then he actually said he wanted to talk to me, and I completely forgot my mission, and we ended up, you know, being together.

So yeah.

Steve: So at which point then, did you guys decide to take the leap of faith to get into real estate?

Max: I said it's a good good story. So when I came, obviously, as an international student, this is an f one student visa, so you're actually not allowed to work. Right? So the only reason was for me, basically, being a competitive student athlete, and you don't waste your time going to find a job. So that's kinda what the visa says.

Right? So we're both living in Oregon. And when COVID hit, Oregon was one of the states that took it extremely serious, you know, as it was shut down. We're both in school. She had a side job working as a server.

And then, eventually, when COVID hit, she was unable to work anymore. Restaurants are shut down. I mean, everything was absolutely frozen, and nobody really knew what was going on. Right? And we're not coming from any financial background where our parents just send us money to support us.

And it was, you know, it was tough. They were on the same boat. They had no idea what was going on. And then, eventually, your expenses stay the same. You know, rent doesn't go down.

You know, food doesn't go down. But just because we had no money coming in, there was it was tough times. So, eventually, our bank account, you know, declined every single month. And,

Katie: It was really stressful.

Max: It was super stressful. I mean, every night, I'd be like, what are we going to do? Like, we don't have money right now to pay for expenses next month.

Katie: In fact, we were even thinking about having to move back to Alaska. That's where my family's from and even considering moving to Germany because we were like

Max: Yeah.

Katie: Ultimately, if shit hits the fan, we need to move back with our parents. Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of kids our age actually did during COVID as they moved back with their families. So for us, it was it was really, really hard. And, you know, with us being freshly together, I couldn't really be like, hey.

You come move to my parents' house with me. Like, I'm not sure how my parents would really take that. Mhmm.

Max: Yeah. So we we got married then in August doing the whole co COVID craziness and, you know, try to, like, build a life together, be responsible, and then, you know, being in this position where absolutely everything is against you. Mhmm. And, we're losing our money. So, like, from August until December, we're just, like, eating all our savings and trying to do something.

I mean, we literally, like, tried everything. Like, we, you know, ask people to cut their grass, whatever it is. Like, hey. Give us something to just survive by talking to coaches, but nobody really knew what's going on. Nobody had, like, a crystal ball, like, you know, just be be be relaxed.

So then January, we had $76 in our bank. It was the absolute low point. And,

Steve: $76 in your bank

Max: account. 76 in our bank. And no, you know, ex expected revenue coming in or anything like that. And it was January 7, so we had, what, not even thirty days to make the next rent payment. Luckily, we had enough groceries for that, you know, couple weeks to to sustain.

But so we were sitting there, and we we always meditated. Like, we always from sports, we always had, you know, train train your mind and your body will follow. So we always had that, understanding of, you know, if you set yourself in the right emotional and and spiritual setting, you will be successful. Right? So we consistently were feeding into that because it was the only thing we really had was staying consistent with our meditation, visualizing everything is going to be good, not feeding into those negative emotions.

So we're sitting there meditating, and we're like, okay. We gotta do something. Right? And, like, for me, it came in my head. I was I was always interested in real estate.

I was always interested in investing, but I had default, expectation that, you know, you have to work for twenty years, make money, and then eventually buy your first rental. That was the the idea of real estate I had back in the days. Yeah.

Steve: And I Very common.

Max: Very common. Yeah. Understanding. Go

Katie: ahead. Yeah. And I was gonna say, I actually thought the only kind of real estate, and this is embarrassing to say, was to just be a realtor.

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: So I actually thought I was gonna be a realtor. You know, if my degree didn't work out, this or that, I was like, oh, I'll just get into real estate thinking, like, real estate is only being a realtor. So, I kinda had that in the back of my head, and I always had interest in it. But once Max did some more digging online, we actually found that there's much, much more Yeah. To real estate.

Max: Well, the

Steve: great irony, because we had Mark Dela Torre on the show last week, was that realtors don't invest in real estate either. Yeah. Right? So the idea you become a realtor again, a common, I don't know. It's like urban legend or whatever you wanna call it.

Like a myth, right, is that, you need a lot of money to end real estate. Not true. You need some money, but you don't need a lot of money.

Katie: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Or you need to become a realtor to get started, and that's not true either. Yeah. And so what was it then? Because you had $76.

You're down literally at the bottom of the barrel. What did you do exactly then to turn your, you know, your fortunes around?

Max: I mean, we knew we had no time. Right? It's what I mentioned at the beginning. We had no time to comfortably sit back down and read books and educate and get a license and talk to people. But I was like, okay.

Let's, you know, start looking up what is Real Estate all about.

Katie: You know, one of the

Max: first things actually, quite frankly, was one of your podcast. You know, we came across Yves Chang's podcast, you know, listened to some of the stuff, got exposed to what are people doing, wholesaling, you know, all these things that you guys talk in those podcasts. So open up to different perspectives of what real estate is all about. So we did some digging in in by watching YouTube videos and just going out and reading podcasts, bigger pocket, etcetera. And after five, six days of research, we're like, okay.

I mean, there's an opportunity to, you know, do wholesales. I kinda understand the basic concept of it. Let's just go and start doing it, you know, learn while doing it. So she had a $3,000 credit card at that point in time. So we maxed it out, bought, you know, a list mailer, send out our direct mailing, and we're just waiting for calls and eventually got you know?

It was a good timing. So when we actually started and it was another thing we need to mention. So when we started, we talked to some local real estate, agents of, like, hey. What's going on in the market right now? Like, how do you see the market moving?

Because we had no background experience about real estate at all. So a lot of people mentioned that point in time that housing inventory was short. Right? It was interest rates were low. Everyone was buying.

Everyone was moving out of the big cities into the suburban areas, and we were in a suburban area. So housing houses were gone, like, immediately. Mhmm. 50,000 over asking. So clearly, it was maybe not the perfect time for us to go into, like, I guess, find houses and sell them.

But everyone was mentioning people are buying land right now to develop because there's not enough housing in those suburban areas. So when we hear that, hear it, like, from two different people, we're like, okay, what is this all about? The land stuff. Eventually, we looked into, like, the land wholesaling and started our first direct mailing for suburban infillots. And then basically, got an infill out on a contract, sold it to an end buyer, but the time was perfect.

Right? In a way, COVID started happening. Everyone was in the same kind of uncomfortable environment. So there was a lot of pushback on emotional side for people to liquid assets like land. Right?

Most people don't understand the value of it. So, like, you know what? I have this $50,000 land sitting here. I just lost my job because, you know, my business shut down. Might as well sell it now and move on with my life.

So we had a lot of we had a lot of people reach out. We had our first, you know, small $3,000 meeting campaign. We had a good amount of people call, and then our first deal was super funny. He had no idea how to even evaluate the land. It was a it was a oceanfront property.

Well, close to oceanfront, I would say. It was a block block away from the ocean. The owner called us. He was like, you know, in a perfect world, that'll take 25,000, walk away with it. Now later on, we realized land was worth 90 to 100,000.

We had no idea. So we got it for 25. We're like, what should we list it for?

Katie: We're like, let's just do Right. 50?

Max: Yeah. I mean, I guess, do 50.

Steve: I mean,

Max: we were

Katie: thinking that was way too much, actually, at this time.

Max: You threw that number out, like, 25,000 would be absolutely amazing making this. And it took, whatever, like, two days when the phone was ringing.

Katie: We had so many people that were interested in buying it, and we were thinking, like

Steve: Just the

Max: five what?

Katie: Okay. So if we're getting all these people interested in buying land for this one property, we need to acquire some more land. But it was funny because we are in our one bedroom apartment, and Max was we finally found someone that wanted to buy the deal. So Max was on his phone, you know, scrolling through his emails, like, updating it every single five minutes saying, like, hey. Did the did the funds get transferred?

Did this not? Because we were, like, thinking as soon as this closes, this is gonna be our first deal. It was, like, this amazing moment. Finally, we got confirmation that the lady sent the funds over. And what was it?

$25,000. Yep. And from $75, we were like, what the hell? Like, is this real? Like, we had no idea what was actually going on.

Max: It's just a number on your bank account. I guess, like all within a month. That was within less than

Katie: That was three weeks.

Max: Yeah. That's right around when when the next month's, you know, statement hit and we had to pay our bill. So we took that money, paid our expenses for the upcoming months, and then we reinvested absolutely everything else.

Katie: So we got the deal under contract. We found a buyer and closed it all within a month.

Steve: That's incredible. So, I guess first question I should ask is, how did it feel? Right? Because you guys went from, like, I hope this works. And, usually, it's like, I have a job.

I have this other option. You know? But let's try this to see if this is a real thing or not and make sure this is not a scam. You guys, basically, if this didn't work, it didn't sell the gas a whole bunch of other options.

Katie: Yeah. You'd be homeless if it didn't work.

Max: No. This is also, like, the the thing that really pushed us. It's not having a plan b. But if you don't have a plan b, there's no choice. You gotta stick to plan a.

You gotta work hard. You gotta commit to it. You know, if life hits you in the face, you gotta stand up because there's no plan b. And I think a lot of times people feel because they have a comfortable plan b. Right.

And then they're like, you know what? It gets so stressful. I just go back to my job. I don't like the uncomfortable feeling of being an entrepreneur, and be like, we have no choice. Like, we we worked, you know, went went woke up, went to training, went to school, and then we walked until midnight.

We slept an average of four, four and a half hours the first two, three months because there was we had so much to do because we had to educate us closely, you know, negotiate leads, continue that business, but also educating on the same side and still doing school, homework, learning first first.

Steve: That feeling though when you guys, like, when it's like, okay. This is it. We It was a

Katie: feeling that you can't really describe. You know? Like, it was so incredible and emotional that I just I really can't put it into words.

Max: I think first and foremost, it was like a relief. A big thank you. Because, you know, we're really spiritual too, and we understand that we've been we're putting a lot of energy towards something higher to guide us. Like, you know, please help us getting through this. And just having this, it's like, okay.

Some something is there. Something is listening, and, clearly, like, it's protecting us. It was, like, a feeling of protection and a massive relief, but it never really felt like

Katie: It never really felt real.

Max: Yeah. Yeah. It never it never felt real until and even, like, after 40 flips, I still felt like when this is gonna end. I was like, you know, this might be my last one. Like Yeah.

Steve: I yeah. So I wanna hit

Max: on something here you

Steve: guys did, though. Right? Like, you guys went through and you did research on your community. Right? Because you guys are in Oregon.

Yeah. Right? Portland or Eugene, Oregon. Eugene,

Max: Oregon. Yeah.

Steve: So in Eugene, you guys asked around to do market research Mhmm. Very short period of time, and you picked up that there's no shortage. And from there, he's like, oh, if they need more land, let's go target land.

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: So I

Steve: think that's a big thing. Right? Like, you found a need, and then you fulfilled it. That's not usually how it goes. Right?

Yep. Usually, how it goes is, you know, we see on our channel, all all these other channels, like, hey. What list should I pull? Right? Who should I call?

Right. But you guys went and did the research. It's like, okay. What does the market need? How can I go source that need?

So I I think that's It sounds it

Max: sounds a lot smarter now looking back at it. It's right. I don't think there was, you know, that intention of, like, oh, there's a need. It was more like we had no idea what to do, and we just kinda got curious. Mhmm.

And, but, yeah, of course. I mean, you're right. You know, looking back at it now, we kinda did the right thing unintentionally.

Katie: Yeah. I feel like we talked to a lot of brokers, commercial space and residential, and it was almost heartbreaking talking to them because a lot of them weren't very open to the idea of these young kids making a bunch of money. It was like, oh, yeah. You can get into commercial, but it'll take you ten years, Like Mhmm. That kind of mindset.

So that was a little discouraging, and that was just local people we talked to. But as we did more of our research, we actually signed up for a coaching program. It was Jack Bosch's land program.

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: That land program taught us, how to initially start into the land space.

Max: And

Katie: with that moving forward, I mean, we we, like, skipped over so many steps. We were, like, ready to go go go, make more money, get more in properties on a contract, and we did a lot of sourcing ourselves. We did a lot of initial research that wasn't given to us, and we talked to a lot of different people and and found what really worked for us. But in the beginning, it's all about networks.

Steve: Mhmm.

Katie: And and, you know, with the brokers we talked to, it was really hard because they didn't give us much insights, but then you'd talk to another person and give you everything.

Steve: Right.

Katie: So if you if you meet someone and they don't help you, you know, move on to the next person.

Max: Your network is your net worth. I always say that to every one of our students. And if they're getting new into real estate, it's always like, how do we get started Yeah. Or network. Yeah.

Like, net real estate is all about people. Anything, you know, buying properties, selling properties, building relationships is all about the people, and and the network is the most important thing. Right? So that's Absolutely.

Steve: And you're talking about Jack Bosch. Right? So, like, talking about network. Right? Like, we got to invest in a bank together because

Max: Oh, yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I know Jack. Right? So did you go with Jack because he was a land guy?

Or did you go with Jack because he's German? Because he's German.

Katie: It was kind of like No.

Steve: I mean, really, because, like,

Max: the thing is coming from Europe, people and especially in Germany, they're so introverted in a way. Nobody's, like, open mindedly sharing their resources. Right? And if so, then there's always a scam behind it. Like, if if you see, like, people, like, sign up today and whatever, that's always a scam.

Like, nobody does it. In The US, obviously, it's a whole different story. So for me coming from overseas, I was like, you know, all these coaching programs are full of shit. Sorry about the language. I was like, you know, they're all just, like, trying to sell something and then give you nothing.

And then, obviously, I was super skeptical about the only reason why I didn't trusted Jack. And, actually, I reached out to Jack because it was a referral from a referral from a referral. And the main reason was, like, he was the first person actually that had it was believed that did what we tried to accomplish and then had the same mindset. That was the most important thing. Everyone else was stuck in their mindset, and he was an entrepreneur by heart.

So he had the same mindset. So talking to him was super refreshing. And then, obviously, when he when I knew he was born, like, forty five minutes away from where I was born He's like, so old. Yeah. He came here as a student.

Had the same similar story. I was like, okay. You know, what what is it they have to do to,

Steve: you

Max: know, make it from a to b and b to c? So for him, it was it was just like he was, like, the first rock in the ocean we could hold on to, mainly of, like, hey. It's doable. Like, he's accomplished it. You know, our parents, our family, friends, nobody believed in us.

That it was not, like, an initial support of, like, hey. We believe in you. Like, you know, go for in the real estate with no money while in college. It wasn't like that. You know, people our parents were, like, not absolutely not not at all behind us at the beginning.

Steve: Trying

Katie: to protect us. You know?

Max: Yeah. For sure. You know, he was the first guy who was like, I've done it, you know, and his story. And I was like, okay. Let's let's hope.

You know? Let's do it. Let's get

Katie: into it. Sure we

Max: should do

Katie: this coaching program just because he's German? He's like, I trust him, Kate. Like, we gotta get into it.

Steve: So what would happen if you guys did not close that first deal, right, that 25 k near the ocean?

Katie: We would have kept trying, actually.

Max: We would have definitely kept trying, but I

Katie: don't know what it would have. Far as, like, financially, we'd be screwed. I think we would find a way to acquire more money to put into it because we have a different mindset. We don't give up, and I think that's just because of our athletic side is that we have this determination and especially Max. I mean, if he hasn't already, he will blow up your phone, and he'll he'll keep texting you until he gets an answer.

Steve: Yeah. I know.

Katie: Like, everybody should know that by now. Right? Like, that's just how he that's how he works. And so I'm so sorry.

Max: I see.

Katie: He kinda rubbed off on me, and I'm starting to be, like, the same. So, determination, we we probably would have kept trying.

Max: Yeah. Absolutely.

Steve: So as your business began to, you know, grow, like, what were some of the struggles you faced, you know, going from your first day? So you four even at 40, didn't even feel real. What was it like, you know, in your first 40 deals? What are the struggles?

Katie: I think the struggles was our time.

Max: Yeah. Because

Katie: it was just us. Sure. It was us for a whole year, I think. Right? And then we got our first

Max: I mean, like, you didn't really know how to how to scale. Like, you we would it's in, know, doing sales in a in a way, like, getting pre copies on contract and selling them, but we had no business. Like, we were we're working on or in real estate, but not on our business. Mhmm. Right?

There was no business. There was no process. There was no system. There was nothing. It was just, you know, us, spreadsheets, sticky notes, and, you know, a lot of memory.

But, eventually, then the the portal was going from there to stealing. I mean, I think that was the biggest one.

Steve: Mean, though? Like, you didn't have like, you struggle with time. Can you give me example of what it meant to say, like, you struggle with the

Katie: time frame? Was just like he we woke up. I mean, he woke up. He had practice how many times a day? Two or three?

Max: Two or three times.

Katie: Yeah. And then we had class, and then we had dinner, and then we needed some time to sleep. Right? But we were spending, like, sixteen hour days working. And after you do that a couple times, you get really burned out.

Max: Mhmm. And

Katie: so our time, it was just really hard to manage our time because we were stuck with obligations like school work, school projects. I

Max: mean, eventually, it turned out to be our superpower. Now I think there's nobody who can outwork us from a time efficiency perspective because we had no time. And, you know, the things we've accomplished in two years going from wholesale land to flipping houses to buying multifamily to acquiring over 200 doors. Like, these are, you know, ten years of increments that we just collapsed in two years because we used our time so efficiently. And, the last, CPG even to the the first presentation was about the eighty twenty, the time efficiency.

I don't know. For me, that was, like, perfect. Exactly where we're living is, like, these blocks, like, two hour a day, no phone, no distraction, absolutely nothing. It's one task you're focusing on, but you have to use your time more efficiently. And so, eventually, you know, we learned of you know, every time before bed, we write down exactly in five at that point in time, it was, like, five minute increments.

Like, what are we going to do? Like, when are we going to be in class, walking back from class, listening to a podcast? Like, there was no minute wasted because we had no time. Mhmm. Yeah.

So and then eventually, like, this you know, you do it for a couple months as a habit. Now it's an absolute habit. Like, our days are always scheduled out to, like, a perfect balance in a way, and it allows us to really have these deep focus times of no inter interruption and just getting the work done and, you know, getting tied up by the 80% is a pure focus on the 20% that is needed to to get to the next level.

Steve: One question I get a lot, so I wanna hear your response to this, is I get people messaging me from kinda times, like, I have an accent, and it's stopping me from getting sales. Yeah. No. I would like to get your perspective and experience on this.

Max: Absolutely not. I think, I've had so many conversations that it turned out differently. It's like, that's an interesting accent. Where are you from? I'm like, I'm from Germany.

And then all of a sudden, it's talking about

Katie: all have something to do with Germany. Yeah. They all are from there. They have a cousin there, a sister, brother. They live there for part of their lives.

Like, we've closed more deals actually because of his accent. Now I will say

Max: So it's a pattern interruption. Yeah. Right? If all these wholesale call and all of a sudden there's a whole different accent, it's like, wait a second. You you sound different.

What's behind that? Mhmm. And then people ask and you have a conversation so they get connected on a more human level. Like, oh, are you from Germany? Right?

Steve: What I

Max: think is, you know, obviously, it's about the reputation. Right? You can have an accent, but if you are actually if you stand up to it and you sound like you know what you're doing, then it doesn't matter. Right? It's just like most of the time, people are used to, like, people from The Philippines calling.

They don't really know what to do and they're having some kind of script, and it sounds really the same all the time. And if this is the stereotype, but if somebody else calls and they're, you know, stepping up to that game and they know what they're doing and this is it's almost like interest, you know, people, like, like to know more about it. And I always felt uncomfortable at the beginning. I talked to it too about that.

Katie: I used to be

Max: on the phone. I was like, you should just call. They're gonna think of some German scheme or

Katie: Like, the phone would be ringing, like, take it. Take it. And I'd be like, I don't want to. I I I don't want to. But yeah.

But he he kills it on the phone. Max is really good about that, and it it is because he knows what he's talking about. And so you're right. Like, if you have an accent, I would say don't be afraid of it. I would say own it and own what you're saying, and and you'll be just fine.

Steve: Yep. What were some of the biggest victories? I mean, there's there's a handful here. But what were some of the biggest victories from when you started? Was it I mean, it sounded like middle of COVID.

So 2021 is when you actually started?

Max: Yeah. January 2021 is the official date

Steve: of So it's only been two years. Yeah. Right? So where are some of the biggest victories in the last two years?

Max: So much. I mean, we we we to summarize, right, we started flipping land, I think, eventually after, like, 65 or so lots. We stopped, went into, like, virtual wholesaling, expanded from there into eight different states. Eventually, like, realized you're selling a lot of these deals at a discount, started going into the fix and flip business, probably fifty, sixty turnkey deals, had a team up to 35 in house employees, full acquisition, TC, dispo, everything, and then realized, you know, there's more to that. And, you know, took that took that initiative, quarter three of going into multifamily development.

And now, actually, we're building a a 20 door apartment complex. You know, it goes back to, like, we always had a dream of going from land wholesale into doing some big land development. And now we're in a process right now of going vertical on a 20 unit. And, the Cedar Gold is going to acquire 250 doors. And, you know, never even thought this would be absolutely possible of, like, so many doors in one year.

But, you know, you talk to the right people, you see it's doable, You copy their processes. And, the victory is just, like, we we've grown so quickly. Like, we almost, like, you know, do something for a couple months, you learn a lot, we get really good, and then we kinda move on. We, like, we always I guess and this kinda comes back maybe from my from my background being a decathlete. Right?

So I do all the events in track and field, not just sprint. And I think that was maybe, like, the curiosity when we started is I wanna try it all. I wanna, like, see how wholesale feels. I wanna see how I fix it for feels because I don't know. We might start in wholesaling.

I don't know if if I'm, like, really good at it. Maybe that's not my passion. So we we try to do everything and get really good at everything to eventually go into multifamily was always the goal. And we knew we had to, like, understand everything, you know, construction, wholesale, acquisition, TC, syndicating, raising money, all these things didn't go into it. And eventually, once we learned it, then we're like, okay, you know, now we have literally everything together.

Let's go into that. And

Katie: We have many victories. But I would say, personally, I think our biggest victory is our network.

Max: Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Network Can

Steve: you elaborate on that?

Katie: Yeah. I mean, we started with knowing one person that was a broker, which led us to another. And I feel like without our network, without being referred to people, we wouldn't be where we're at today. We wouldn't be sitting in front of you. Mhmm.

It was always a dream to get to know you and and like minded people like you. But without consistently building relationships and nurturing the relationships, we wouldn't have have we wouldn't have the network we have today. Yeah. And our network has actually given us opportunity to build and grow much faster.

Steve: Oh, yeah.

Katie: So I

Max: mean, everything we've we've done from our first flip was based on network. Right? Because, like, going from there, going from wholesaling land to wholesaling houses, there was, you know, other people that are extremely good at it. So we start learning, talking to them. You know, how do you do it?

How do you underwrite them? What's your process? Eventually, same with construction. Right? How do you even look at a deal that you fix and flip?

You know, it's the whole process. Run me through it. Give me everything you have, and I'll, you know, take the knowledge and then turn around and do something good with it. I promise, you know, I'll use I'm just basically a sponge. You are sucking in all the knowledge that we could of being proactive and talking to people, and there's so many people out there that give back.

You know, it's amazing how much is is out there that you can

Katie: Yeah. And quite frankly, a lot of these people that are successful now, they've been through it all. They've won it all, and they've lost it all. So for us, this young, able to talk to someone who has lost everything, and now they're multimillionaires with thousands of assets, like, that's incredible for us to sit here and learn from them. Because without us learning from them, we can make the same mistake they did or even much worse.

So

Steve: Right. So you went so let's talk to this journey here. Right? So you did land. It obviously did well, And then you stopped it completely?

Max: You transitioned.

Steve: Transitioned. Yeah. I know you were saying because you're the Catholic and you want to, try everything. Was was did you reach a saturation point with land? I guess my question is, why not wholesale land and houses?

Why did you transition from land to houses?

Max: It wasn't it wasn't like an either or. We we started adding houses to our inventory, you know, started contacting house leads and kinda learning that process. Right? There was a similar overall process of, you know, how to contact and how to close them, how to, you know, negotiate, etcetera. So we started adding houses in there.

And then, you just got really curious of the process of, you know, what if you buy, you know, now we're making $10,000 in assignment fee. What if you fix it up and then make 40,000 at the end? And just like, what is what is all about the entire process of, you know, going in and actually adding value to something, not just flipping a contract. I've never seen a property. So and it kinda came from, you know, obviously, HDTV.

You see those TV shows, you're like, you know, let's try it out too. Like, how does it feel like doing a rehab? It's definitely stressful, but, Yes.

Steve: It is.

Max: It is. It is really stressful, and there's a lot of things that might go wrong, but the the curiosity then pushed us there. And then so when we came from, you know, then wholesaling houses to then going to do some fix and flips and also turnkey deals raising capital, obviously, there was a focus then kinda set where we had to relocate some of our time into that business. We still were doing some land wholesaling. Eventually slowed it down just because the profit margin at that point in time was, like, you know, time versus, income.

You know, how much time can we spend and where we're making the most money. So we transition more into the housing side. Not saying, you know, can you cannot make enough money with land. There's a lot of money in land too, but eventually then our process, because of curiosity of, like, something new, transition more into that. And then, you know, we've been building relationships there.

We're going contractors in house. We started raising more money from investors overseas. They're interested in turnkey products. So again, there was a need. People wanted to buy turnkey products, cash flowing properties, so we knew, okay, you know, there's a market we can now satisfy.

Let's find these deals. We have to process this turnaround. Let's make a profit. You know, eventually, then you'll scale away from land. But I guess the knowledge we've learned by, you know, how to how to underwrite land and everything that comes with the land side helped us now in the multifamily because we knew exactly we got a smoking deal because we knew how to look at the land versus the the building on it.

Steve: Mhmm. So you went from wholesaling land to wholesaling houses Mhmm. To flipping houses. Yep. So you wanna know how it felt doing each.

Yep.

Katie: Yeah. And to piggyback off of kind of what Max said, you can do everything. You can do everything all at once even, but you won't be excellent in all of them. And so we were, you know, more than happy doing wholesaling and more than happy even doing, you know, fix and flips, but we really wanted to tie down on one thing, and wholesaling just wasn't our appetite. Mhmm.

So we definitely, you know, took a different direction, and it's because we feel like we haven't tasted that taste we're looking for yet until now. But, yes, you can do everything. But if you wanna be excellent in one thing, you have to tie down and focus.

Steve: Why was wholesaling that in line with what you're trying to do?

Katie: For me, I'm a people's person, and I like to have, face to face conversations. And I like to get to know people, and I feel like a wholesale transaction is very one and done. I don't know. What do you what do you think? I think

Max: it was just so burning. It was burning us out because it's a consistent hunt. And I guess we we maybe never had, like, a system that allowed us to really, like, sit back and really just operate it. We were always actively in, you know, making calls, going to deals, negotiating. It was a consistent hunt.

Hunt. You get a deal, you close it, and you have to go, continue, continue, continue, continue. And, it's really exhausting. At the end of the day, you know, when a market turns, then eventually, you turn with it. If you don't have anything to fall back to it, and then, you know, you're reading books, you're talking to people that have been in the industry for years, and eventually, everyone said, you know, if the wholesale goes sideways, you have need something to fall back to, you know, owning assets, the benefits of owning real estate.

Eventually, I knew, okay, if you wanna own rentals, we need to also understand the construction fees. But we we know how to get them at a discount. We know how to negotiate them. But what happens after? You know, let's let's get to know that as well.

So eventually, that a long run-in a ten, fifteen, twenty years, we have enough assets to sit back to. And our kids have a huge amount of assets to fall back to. Mhmm. And whatever happens to whatever recession is coming up, we have something to fall back to. But wholesale is always a skill set that can easily be activated again if needed.

Right?

Steve: So going back to wholesaling and flipping, if you had to do it again, right, let's take everything else off the table. Wholesaling houses, flipping houses.

Max: Wholesaling.

Steve: Wholesaling. Yeah. Wholesaling. So you did the flipping, and he's like, okay. This is that it.

Katie: We enjoyed it. Yeah. We still do it.

Max: It's it's obviously a lot long term. I just thought, like, a quick right. You have to tie it up. Sometimes it's like four months, and then you have these projects that look good on paper, and you tear down the walls, and all of a sudden you see there's a lot more than expected. You know, you're really breaking even.

Katie: It's more it's a gamble. Yeah. Quite frankly, like, the walls

Max: still good at, like, underwriting them, but there's always something. Right? There's I mean, not a single project yet when like, plan. You have a construction budget and stuff.

Steve: Had a construction budget go under. Yeah. And I've never been like, oh, we it is for 5,000 cheaper. It's never been that. No.

It's always been like, oh, we didn't account for this.

Max: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Oh, we didn't account for that.

Katie: You got new goal for 2023.

Steve: Yeah. So alright. So it went from, flipping houses then straight into multifamily?

Max: No. We went from flipping to eventually, owning them. So, like, we basically syndicated houses in a way. Right? So and interest rates are still in our favor.

If you buy them the right way, you could almost cash and refinance the entire amount. In Oregon? No. There was a in Florida.

Katie: Not in Oregon.

Max: In Oregon, I'm saying. In Oregon, that would be tough.

Steve: Well, that's what I was gonna say. Like, when you're buying all these rentals in Oregon, it's like,

Max: no. No. Oregon is not a interesting. It's not a cash flowing market. Now these these started in Florida.

Katie: So,

Max: I mean, we we started in eight states. So I we we were Oregon. And, like, one of our main markets was also Arizona and Nevada with the land side of things. We had a lot of land going on here and then eventually Florida, because there you know, when we went into the land space, we looked where there's a lot of movement happening. There's a lot of construction happening.

So a lot of people people that are moving into Florida. Right? So there was a lot of new development happening. So eventually, we started flipping land there. And if you really liked that market, it was still affordable.

We saw, you know, doing more research, it was still cash flowing in most markets, you know, not necessarily Miami, but some of the outside markets. So we realized there was an opportunity, and we watched it for, what, nine nine to twelve months. And there was, you know, damn, a thousand people every day moving to Florida. Right? So you're putting the numbers together.

It's like, okay, there's a huge demand right there. You know, let's go into that market. And then we also knew, okay, by the time you're done with school, the world is ours. We can move anywhere. So to start building our business somewhere where we wanna move to.

So we eventually start, you know, relocating to Tampa, started doing business there because you wanted to move to your Tampa market and be local to our business, not running it virtually. So kinda like all all picture together of, like, hey. We wanna move there. Let's start doing business there. And eventually, it was a good cash flowing market to the most part, and and it turned out to be a great decision.

Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So, you don't just go into multifamily. Right? Like, you have to be able to raise capital.

Max: Yep.

Steve: But talk to me about raising capital.

Max: Raising capital seemed to be, like, the miracle at the beginning. So I was like, how? How? Right? Every time I was, like, on these CG calls, it's like, how do you raise money?

Like, why would somebody give you money? And, eventually, like, we we understood, obviously, like, if you're having a deal, that makes sense. It's not necessarily hard finding the money because you can offer something that that makes sense financially for them. It's secured by real estate, but you just have to present it the right way. How we started raising money was a lot of overseas investors came in, and I guess there was the relationship again that I have from being international.

There was almost like a certain trust. Right? I understood how they were thinking. I understood how the local market was, you know, looking like in comparison to The US. I could pitch that directly to them and offer me the opportunity.

And there was almost, like, a sense of trust of, you know, this is a a local and now lives in The US and understands the market has been there. But I had the European mindset, and I I was able to communicate in the European fashion, which was highly appreciated for some of these investors. So it made it easy for us to raise money there. And now we're pivoting a lot into raising capital from professional athletes. A lot of NFL players, professional baseball players are working with us because, again, I'm bridging a gap between, you know, not just a financial advisor.

I'm I'm an athlete myself. I know exactly what we do. We're at the same gym most of the time. They see me workout. They see me as being a real person, and the commitment I put into the sports, and they're interested about what we're doing on the site.

Yeah. So, you know, it kinda, like, happened there by just building these relationships, like, using some of my background to bridge the gap. And eventually reached out to family, friends, and got recommendations from family members who knew somebody with money they wanted to invest. But I guess the biggest part at the beginning was just getting the the trust to do a big project. Right?

Because you're still young. Most people don't believe in you when you're young. So we had to obviously find GPs and partners, and we still have to do it for the next couple years probably until we have the resume to do it. But you have to give up a certain share. But again, it's more like, you know, when you're in school, you start adding something on your resume.

And it's okay, maybe getting only 5%, 10% there, but you're building something. So you're finding the deal, you're syndicating, you're doing all the hard work, you give somebody else the credit for being a GP, but you're able to be able to bring it all together. And eventually, you learn so much about it. And, so real estate is all again about people. Right?

You sort of bring the right people together and then build their trust and relationships.

Steve: So for someone listening right now that has not raised capital yet, so they've done a few wholesale deals, but they haven't raised capital yet, what are the first three steps you would tell them to go do right now to begin raising capital?

Katie: Find a deal that works, and the money will follow you.

Max: Yeah. I mean, I guess, you almost have to start raising it a little bit earlier to anticipate a deal. The first thing we did was, like, just going through your contact book. Right? Because sometimes you just ignore the people that you know because you're like, I know them.

They don't have anything. But it's like, it's good to really know them. Like, maybe they know somebody. Like, oh, they're working in the finance industry. Let me just reach out to them and see what people do they know or do they have any interest.

Right? Just talk to them. So, hey. We're in real estate. We're doing this project right now.

This is what the numbers look like. You know, there's extra amount of profit if you're coming in, blah blah blah. You're secured by the real estate, and then see what happens. Just having conversations and eventually again, it's about the network. Eventually, somebody might be interested.

And then And then you do something with them, and then they connect you because they're like, hey. This deal went well. I have five other guys with money. They wanna work with you. So, I mean, we came in when we started first.

Right? We didn't, like, raise millions right away. We started raising a couple of thousand because we did, on the construction side, then we we syndicated some of these, single family flips. Right? Because we got a construction loan, like a a bridge loan to fix up the property.

So most of it was covered. And then on the refinance, there was, you know, $30.40, 50,000 needed sometimes in order to make it cash flow based on the DCR issue, that debt service coverage ratio. So but then we syndicated them, like, hey. We told somebody, hey. You give us $40,000 to comment a deal.

It's going to be done. You get an 8% cash on cash return, 30% equity, 15% return investment. Right? So the numbers made sense, and it was secured. We went into escrow, you know, both of us on title.

So we own a portion of it, but we basically did the whole the whole work of bringing everything together. So you do a couple of these, you build your resume, they connect you to other people. Eventually, there's somebody with a little bit more money, wants to invest in, like, you know, more syndication kind of projects, and then it just kinda happens naturally. So we didn't plan it. I guess we kinda, like, naturally

Steve: pivoted into it. Right? Yeah. So step one, contacts. Mhmm.

Max: Go

Steve: in your phone contacts and just call people. Was was there a step two in there or was just just call people?

Max: I think I mean, that's the most important step two would then be going into, local real estate meetups. Mhmm. Especially if you're in a bigger city, like Phoenix. I mean, there's so many meetups that you can attend to and and just talk to people. Right?

In the suburb of the market, maybe not, but maybe you have to drive two hours for, like, a meetup. Right? It's it's there's so much, real estate local real estate meetups. There's a lot of people that are interested in it, but everyone is an expert. There's people also going in, like, hey.

I wanna invest in real estate, and I wanna meet somebody who has a great product for me to invest in. Right? So it's it's calling you your first circle of contacts, then expanding to local meetups, you know, Facebook groups, building your relationships.

Katie: I mean, the online presence is insane. You can meet thousands of people a day if you choose to. Yeah. So, you know, putting something out.

Max: And building building a brand, doing something rep yeah. Something that people trust, social media presence or something like that. So if people research you of who's that guy that talked to me about a project. Having something to, like, you know, if they look you up, they don't wanna see part pictures of you, you know, always drunk on parties. It might not be a perfect a perfect idea.

Katie: But Put that account on private.

Steve: Yeah. So then you transition again to to only multiple assets. You guys are at 200 plus doors right now?

Max: Yeah. We're selling a 68 unit now and then, trying to, you know, reuse the capital for different investments. But this year is really our one goal. It's just acquiring as much assets as possible, and it's a little bit because of the real estate environment right now. I have I've learned the last six months was extremely stressful when the market turned.

And I realized, you know, there's nothing really for me to fall back to. Like, we have a good wholesale business, but, we had those months we broke even, and we certainly had months we lost money because we didn't close deals, but we still continued spending money on marketing. So we realized, okay. You know, what is it really that makes us recession proof? That was, like, this number one thing for me.

How can I be recession proof? How can I be And I realized it's it's owning assets? Mhmm. Right? So we even eventually, I had to, like, understand, okay.

Whatever happens, we have to own assets, in the long run for us to be be sustainable. And, just for my understanding of what happened in the last cycle, in a recession, usually, you're able to pick up deals at a discount. So I'm seeing the next eighteen to twenty four months as a massive opportunity for acquiring long term assets versus, you know, trying to wholesale them. Right? So using the knowledge we have of finding deals, but now figuring out how to hold them.

So then in ten years, I look back and say, like, luckily, I didn't sell that deal. Yeah. Oh,

Steve: that's huge. So, again, talk to me about the transition, right, for people listening. To start acquiring assets. Like, what were the first few things you did to make sure that you could, you know, start building the recession proof, portfolio?

Max: The number one thing is mindset. I think for us at the beginning, it was almost like it seems like we're not ready for owning assets. You know, it's almost this thing you look forward to in the future and, like, you know, eventually, we get there once we have an x y z amount of money. Like, changing a mindset, especially with multifamily, is is the biggest thing. A lot of people are scared because, you know, multiple doors, more zeros won't work.

Katie: But A lot of zeros.

Max: I can tell you that one multifamily is less stressful than having four flips at the same time. Yeah. Even though the numbers might be totally different, but it's it's a different kind of setup. Yeah. So it's it's a it's a mindset thing of, like, I can do that.

And, you know, I'm I'm not scared of the building.

Steve: Jump straight into multifamily? Like, did you just jump straight into multiple doors, or did you just buy a single family and then

Max: We we bought single first. Yeah. We just started with single because we didn't have the mindset. Eventually, the the mindset came from listening to your podcast, Tim Bratz, you know, owning $5,000. And I saw you had that.

I was like

Katie: Minds were blown.

Max: Yeah. It was like $5,000. There's no way. Like, what is he? Like, a hedge fund?

Right? It's like, there's no way. Like, how would she, like, maybe $5 is cool or $20 is crazy, but 5,000 is like, no way. Yeah. So listen to it, and his story right with the, you know, the first seven years he was going back and forth.

And then Everything. Yeah.

Steve: I mean, he was paying for gas with coins. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, similar, you know, getting to the very bottom before things turn around. So right now, if I wanna go buy a multifamily, again, like, is what what step one? Is it pulling a list? Is it, you know, calling brokers?

Like, what are you guys doing to to buy multifamily right now?

Katie: Relationships.

Max: Yeah. How do relationships it's a little bit different on the multi and single. There's not much direct acquisition. You you can cold call, investment firm, and nobody's gonna answer. Right?

So it's more about the relationships, especially at a certain unit size. We're targeting, like, 35, $50 and up. So there's not really many mom and pop buyers that would answer the calls. More investment firms, LCs. So you're not necessarily getting a hold of these guys.

So it's just really building this relationship locally with the the the key real estate brokers. There's only, like, four or five maybe in in market that really have the good deals. Mhmm. And, again, it's persistency. I've texted these guys probably more than anyone else, and they're like, I need you know, I just need to talk

Katie: to them. I need to I need to get rid of

Max: these guys. Right?

Steve: Instead of getting

Max: rid of these guys, you can't them, and and they don't answer. And the next day, I text them again, and I call them. I leave a voice mail, email. That's so funny. Like, I go and, like, I show up in the office.

Like, they don't answer me. I show up in the office. I'm like, hey. I've texted you four or five times, like, in this talk. You know, I'm serious.

I'm trying to get this done. And, and then just having these conversations. And, again, it goes back to, like, being a salesperson. Right? You gotta read them.

You gotta make sure, like, they trust you. They know you're serious. Like, real estate brokers in a commercial space are really, different. They don't they don't can everyone, like, you know, prove me that you're able to No. No.

Steve: We're skeptical. Yeah. Super skeptical. Yeah. They don't think anybody's good enough to hang out hang out hang around.

Katie: No. No. They have their few people they send the deals to, and that's it. But that's so funny because we were actually in the airport this morning, and Max was just blowing up this guy's phone for the last, like, four days. And I told him I was like, okay, Max.

It's it's been a while. Like, let's let's give it a rest. And he said, I'm gonna call him one more time. So he called him. He didn't answer.

We got on our flight, and finally, he responded to us. The first message he got was after our flight was that guy, and now we have a something set up for

Max: Friday. It's a 16 unit. I mean, I was thinking it was super consistent. Right? They told me multiple times, no.

No. No. The seller wants, you know, 2.6 for it, and it was just not working. So I came in every single day. I contacted the lender.

I contacted the closing company. I contacted every single one to get as much information as possible, and I texted this guy every day. You should see my text. It's, like, five, six messages in a row. He didn't answer.

Right? And then I call him, and he just gets the automatic message of, like, sorry. I can't talk right now. It was the only message. But I use it as a response.

It's like, he responded. It's feed into it again. And, eventually, here we are today. Now he was pushed so much into distress at this point in time that he's like, okay. This guy, they called me eight times now.

Let's talk about it. So tomorrow, we have a meeting with him. And, you know, by by he's almost like yeah. He's definitely annoyed, but, also, like, he's in such a distress that he understands, okay. I'm taking this serious.

You know, I'm not wasting time. And I told him, like, hey. Let's get this done quickly. I'm not trying to, you know, waste thirty days. Give me information I need, and we can talk about it.

And this is actually one that we might take over creative financing because the guy is, you know, not in a way right now to stabilize it. So we had a conversation today about, you know, taking over the existing mortgage, stabilizing it, refinancing them out. But if I would not have contacted him every single day, even on Sunday, on Valentine's, It doesn't matter. Like, I am on Yeah.

Katie: I am on There is a there is a fine line between harassing someone and being persistent.

Steve: I'm not sure if that's true in sales. I think it's Right. There's no fine line. It's just it's this whole spectrum. Alright.

So, so it sounds like then the, really, you're targeting your backyard. So you're dealing with all the commercial brokers in your backyard.

Max: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Steve: You guys are not doing this nationally to have people send you deals. So because there's there's no deal ways to to attack this. Right? I think we had, I think it was, it wasn't Fernando. I can't remember who was on the show.

But, like, he calls nationwide, and he calls everyone that has a note due. Right? Like Mhmm. Interesting. Buy apartments.

Right? You have to do five year, seven year term or five year, seven year balloons. Right? Right? He just calls everyone in the six months before the balloon's due.

Right? Because either they have to refinance or

Max: they have

Steve: to sell it. Right? So that's what he does. You know? And I had when Tim Bratz, not on the show, you know, because we're in Collective Genius, had a chance to, you know, grab some drinks while they eat.

Right? You know? 12:30, 01:00 in the morning at the bars. They were supposed to be closed during COVID, but, you know, whatever.

Katie: It's Florida. Yeah.

Steve: It's Florida. And so I asked him, like, Tim, like, how do you even buy these deals? Does it like, these are sophisticated investors. He's like, you're overthinking it. Like, everyone's got problems.

Max: Exactly.

Steve: Everyone has problems. Okay. That makes total sense. So, he goes through and I think for Tim, basically, people are sending him deals across the country. So one guy is just calling all the refi people.

Tim, because of his reputation, everyone just sends them deals. Hey. Is this a deal? What do you think? And then if it's a deal, he was, like, joint venture with

Max: them. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Steve: So you, right now, you're saying in your backyard, is it Tampa or all Florida?

Max: It is mainly Tampa. I mean, pretty much Florida would make sense. I always tell people, like, Florida makes sense. And eventually, you wanna go nationwide. There's other markets, you know, they're great to go invest in.

I'm seeing it more as an alternative challenge right now going out of state. I wanna just really get good. And there's a thing, and it's what Grant Cardone always mentioned. It does deals in every single market. Mhmm.

Right? If the numbers make sense, it doesn't matter if you're in the most expensive market or not. If the numbers make sense, the cash flows is a deal. Mhmm. So don't be, you know, scared of, like, oh, I gotta go in with some cash flowing market.

I'm not in a great market. Just adding extra challenges because you gotta fly out there, take a look at our property, send contractors there. And we have we have one in in Oklahoma. It was a headache because, you know, it was made sense cash flowing, but the management of it made it made it made it super complicated. So now we're like, you know, we're just focusing on our market right now, getting some of deals under our belt, and then eventually building a very smooth process and then just duplicate it into different market.

And you find it. And then you did pieces, contractors, and relationships to then scale. But I think right now

Katie: It's easier to control when

Steve: it's in there.

Max: Because I can just go to an office of a commercial brokerage and knock on a door. Right? I'd have to fly over there. If if they ignore me, I gotta fly over there to knock, and it might be, you know, a waste of time. Well, the yeah.

Steve: That's what I was asking. Right? It has to be in your backyard if it's face to face. So, you know, I've been really fortunate and blessed. Right?

Like, I'm in one apartment deal with Stephanie Betters, right, with

Max: Love Me. I see.

Steve: And it was a situation where, like, you know, hey. I just closed on this apartment. You know? If anyone's interested in investing, let me know. I sent her a message.

And then, you know, she's like, I got this deal. I was able to invest with her. Right? Mhmm.

Katie: But

Steve: her strategy, it appears to be same thing. Right? People are just sending her deals from across the country.

Max: Yeah.

Steve: Right? She's got a great database and that she literally owns Salesforce. So she's got a database Oh, yeah. Of everyone else that uses her database. Right?

So she can just reach out to all our clients. So then so for you, step one is reaching out to all the local brokers.

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: What about the park? Because just because we just talked about it. Like, they're super skeptical.

Max: Mhmm. Right?

Steve: Like, they just think, you know, like, they're above everybody else. At least that's been my experience. So after I agree. Yeah. Right?

So after you get in front of them, what are you doing to build credibility so that they will send you deals, especially if you've never done a deal?

Katie: I would say just from my perspective is the conversation. You know, when you hop on a phone call with someone, you automatically know right away within the first couple of seconds of how that phone call is gonna go, how that person is, what they're looking to do with you, whether they're trying to sell you, buy something from you, this or that. So I feel like conversation is the first Almost feel

Max: like, yeah. You're right. It's almost like being surrounded by an Apex predator. Right? You gotta think about commercial agents.

They're, like, somewhat on the top of the food chain Mhmm. For sure. If they're really good and they have the connections, they get, like, crazy deals. They have really good connections. The Apex predator.

So if you're out there, you know, in the desert and there's an Apex predator, they can sense your emotions. And that's I think the same thing with those commercial agents. They they sense when when you don't know what you're doing.

Steve: They can smell weakness.

Max: Yeah. Yeah. And so I realized this early on. So I go in there. I'm probably more confident than I should have.

And I'm just sitting there, and I'm, like, so confident. And it's also, obviously, you have to know what you're saying. Right? They're gonna ask you the questions you always see when they ask, you know, specific terms and stuff like that to see, like, if you actually know your game. So you have to obviously understand specific knowledge to have a conversation to to make sure when you talk to the right person, they know you know what you're doing.

But then it's just, like, being super confident. They didn't know what you're doing. And I I always, like, turn a conversation around. I just start asking questions, and then I ask Connor questions. I'm like, okay.

So tell me about you. Tell me about your background. Like, why should I trust you? Why should I buy from you, not from somebody else? Right?

So then it turns around that I make the woman uncomfortable, and then all of a sudden he breaks through the ice. And it's like, okay. You know, this guy seems to know what he's doing. And then

Katie: you have the real conversation. Yeah.

Max: Sure.

Steve: And then there's, like, two levels conversation. One is, like, who are you? Super skeptical. Yeah. And you can actually and then after that, you can break through that, and you have a real conversation.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: And then did you did they require proof of funds, a track record? Like, what did you do after that? Like, again, for someone that's not doing multifamily right now

Max: Yep.

Steve: What do they need to show to a commercial broker so that commercial broker will send them deals?

Max: The the good ones always ask for, like, a track record and a proof of funds. And the first couple deals, we use other people. Mhmm. They use their, basically, experience. Like, Kaino is a business my business partner working together.

He uses proof of funds. He uses his track record. And it's, like, basically, like, your GP relationship. Right? It's like, hey.

I'm trying to find deals. If I find something good, would you close this deal with me? And if you find a GP or somebody who's like, yeah. I have, you know, 15,000,000 in net worth or whatever it is. I own some assets.

Just do it. Use them at the beginning, I guess, to close these deals until you have your resume. Right?

Steve: Okay. And I think that's a great point. So then for someone that doesn't have a GP right? Because we're talking about relationship. Like, that was, like, one of the biggest things we had earlier, and I absolutely agree with you guys.

How do they find someone with a track record that we're willing to work with them to do their first deal?

Max: Again, I mean, it's either, like, going out to to local meetups and, you know, finding people that are in that space and presenting them what you're doing and finding like minded people. Or

Katie: There's so many groups you can join on the Internet. Yeah. Like, I think social media

Max: Social media is

Katie: huge. Like, the biggest power we have right now is being able to reach out to so many different people in such a short amount of time.

Steve: Because I

Max: mean, it's like anyone that does multifamily, Tim Bratz, like, anyone who's even coaching it or even us, if you reach out to us and say, have a great deal, can I use your experience just to get the financials and get in front of them anytime? Right. Right? Because at the end of the day, benefits both sides. Right?

So I I think don't be afraid to reach out to somebody who might seem above you, but telling them, like, hey. This is what I'm trying to do. I have a deal right now. Here's the basic numbers. Would you give me your credibility to get the the financials and never I think there was nobody would say no.

Right.

Katie: Right? And Like, especially for us because we didn't necessarily have that relationship with someone to be like, hey. We have this big deal. Can we piggyback on you and learn how you do it all? We didn't really have that in the beginning.

So for us, when someone does come to us and they do have a deal, we're like, let's effing do it.

Max: Yep.

Katie: Right? Because we're here to support others, especially our age and, obviously, older. But when you're younger, you don't you don't know much. Mhmm. You're like a tiny fish in a big ocean, and you're surrounded by all these sharks.

And, so for us, especially, we're more than more than happy to venture along with someone and give them the opportunity that we didn't necessarily have.

Steve: Yeah. How did you guys find okay. It's two questions. First, listen, because we haven't touched touched on this yet. What does GP stand for?

Max: Oh, general partner. So you have when you when you syndicate multifamily, you have have a GP as a general partner. Most of the time, that's the person who secures a loan. So your net worth is, you know, somewhat the same amount and more than the loan amount, or you have a GP group with multiple people in their collected net worth is more. Yeah.

And then if your LPs, the lending partners that, you know, bring in private equity to close it, and then you usually, the syndication piece in between that gets the puzzle pieces together.

Steve: Right. So how do you guys find your first GP?

Max: Our first GP came, actually from Collective Genius. Mhmm. Because there's a lot of amazing guys in there. So There are. Yeah.

Networking again.

Katie: And girls.

Max: Being in being in the right, There are.

Steve: Right environment. Someone's Stephanie a moment ago.

Max: Yeah. Yeah. She was she was actually, like, one of it was, like, while back. Like, when our first we are still in land. We had no idea about houses.

We came across a very decent deal we sent to her, and and the numbers actually made made sense, but, it was closed before we had a chance to really send an LOI. But she was the first one that actually, like, sit down talk to us too.

Katie: To work with us.

Max: Kinda explained us, like, how to look at multifamily. You know, at this point, I was like, hey. If this deal, does it make sense? Is is a good deal? She was interested in it.

Unfortunately, we didn't close on it or even had a chance to make an offer. But, yeah, again, she she was amazing, kinda opening up our our perspective of it's doable, and then we continued feeding into that educational piece of getting to know underwriting more and how do the fashion works. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So there's a couple of things here. So we talked about Collective Genius, right, which obviously went to say mastermind. And then we brought out Stephanie. So, you know, she's been a recent addition to the Well Club.

Right? So Mhmm. You guys walked in here when you guys walked in around a little bit before one. Right? I was still wrapping up that call.

So you're also in the Well Club. We've got to connect through there. So, for those that aren't familiar with it, right, that aren't watching, you know, Certainty Talks, can you share briefly, you know, your experience with the Will Club?

Max: Yeah. The Will Club is, is combining this is not just real estate itself. It's combining different investment ventures. Right? There's people from different industries.

There's the the crypto component to it as well. So it's like, come as almost staying ahead of the game and what's happening in the next couple years. How can we take advantage of it? Right? There's so much new technology coming up, web three point o, NFTs.

Right? And it's all going to impact real estate ultimately. So there's the one thing is to research about how to capture those new, opportunities and technologies to our advantage, educate on those things, but also as a collective group of, you know, again, people in different spaces that are interested in the same goals. Right? There's people who may I wanna go into real estate and then we have real estate professionals there or for us doing something else.

And there's other professionals there. So it's it's a great, again, a great mastermind of like minded people with the same goals and aspirations.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, it kinda goes back to, right, like, the relationship. Right? So it's cool. Like, the relationship is great.

Right? Yeah. You know, you coming, to the whale club events as well. So one thing I wanna make sure we hit on before we get to audience questions is, being a husband wife team. Mhmm.

Katie: This is my favorite topic.

Steve: It's probably really easy, right, to manage marriage and business. Sure. There's no problems whatsoever.

Katie: Well

Steve: I'm kidding.

Katie: Well, actually, like, there isn't much. I think our problems were in the beginning, and we and we work together to overcome them. Like, if anything, I think we've created more happiness than

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: Than we did before. We we're more connected and we're closer, and we think about the same things.

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: Talk about the same things.

Steve: So let's talk about then. You said in beginning, there were worth challenges. What were the challenges in the beginning, and then how did you resolve them?

Katie: Well, Max is, like, you know, a very determined or has a lot of determination and A

Steve: little intense.

Katie: He's very persistent. I was very lazy.

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: And I can admit that. And, you know, for me to work with someone that has so much energy, it was a little hard for me because I'm used to living my day to day, relax, this and that. Oh, I'm done with school. I go to my serving job, come home, sleep, go to bed. But he was like, no.

No. No. No. You're not going to bed yet. We're gonna sit down.

We're gonna make small offers, this and that. And he was holding me accountable, but I didn't know how to take it. I was like, you need to be my husband. Like, you're not my boss, this and that. And over time, I was realizing he's only trying to make me a better person.

He's only trying to help me grow, see new things, grow together and make something together. So it it was just for me, I had to open up and say, hey. He's trying to do something for me, not he's not trying to hurt me.

Steve: Right. So

Max: Yeah. I think it was really important. For me, it was almost like investing in her, and it was it it helped our relationship. I think it's, you know, there there's people that might not be able to work with their husband and wives. But for us, it almost got us so much closer than anything else because we've been doing the same thing.

We're loving it, and we're having these these accomplishments together. But at the beginning, of course, it was I had to understand how to talk to my wife because I was talking to her in a way, like, I talked to myself. And it's sometimes, like, really strict of, like, you know, let's get it done. Don't show emotions. Don't be weak.

You know, don't complain. We have to because there was a lot of

Steve: I can only imagine saying those words to my wife and saying whatever.

Max: We had a lot of, you know, stress in the back. Right? It wasn't so we we had to do it. So there was a lot of just, like, you don't have a choice right now. You know, we we cannot just go to bed and sleep.

We gotta get it done. But But, eventually, you learn how to communicate with her in a professional matter, and it helps with the relationship too. And, I would not be here without her. I think that was, like, the biggest investment I've done. It's, like, almost, we are, like, two bodies and one brain.

Like and this is our superpower because we get twice as much done because we're both doing the same thing, and we're both on the same level. Like, you know, we're splitting up on a daily basis, and we get so much done because it's like, okay. What are you doing today? What am I doing today? How do we plan nowadays?

How can we be more efficient? And I think we've we've managed it so far really well of, like, just being absolutely on top of things. And I guess the biggest challenge is is the work life balance. We have these things where we, you you know, you have to tell each other, like, hey. Tonight is just not talk about work.

I know there's a lot going on, but let's have a date night. It's it's not easy, but on a on a side of both do it and both are so consumed in a way in a positive fashion where we enjoy it, you know, it's not necessarily hindering us date nights. It's just an addition where you have to get these balance points straightened out. Like, yesterday, we we didn't we've worked super, super hard this month. I mean, like, you know what?

Let's just have this Valentine's. It was our anniversary, so we just went to the beach all day and

Katie: just 10 miles. Let me just say.

Max: Super cool, man.

Katie: Little exhausting.

Max: Just being able to do that and be like, hey. And, you know, let's not talk about it. We just talk about our future.

Katie: Yeah. That's what we love to do together actually is is talk about our future and manifest things that we want for each other and our family. And it's actually funny because my mom FaceTimed me yesterday, and she's like, so did you get out and do something? Did you, you know, go on a dinner date with another couple that's not in real estate? Because we talk, eat, and breathe real estate all the time because we love it.

But for my mom, she's like, there's more the to life than just real estate. So for us, it's really hard for us to, like, separate that because we love what we do. And, you know, we would rather be at home watching a movie underwriting deals than going out and partying. So

Max: I'm just, like, super proud of Katie too because, as you know, real estate is a really, like, male heavy space. Mhmm.

Katie: And I

Max: remember, like, the first meet ups we went to was, like, 95, 98% just men. And she was super intimidated at first, and now she's just a badass. Right? She's really grown into it where she's, like, you know, she's telling people what to do. She knows exactly what she's doing, and she has just been growing so immensely in the last two years.

And I think it's also one of the major forces of our collective success because she almost, like, is the the missing piece. You know, I'm sometimes I'm getting too locked up in certain things, and then she kinda, like, pulls me back, and assess sets the focus again. And, obviously, doing doing emotional times when when stuff is not going right, she's usually, like, the rock, you know, vice versa. So I think that was,

Katie: thank you.

Max: Of course.

Katie: Thank you for Likewise.

Steve: Well and I can certainly, you know, empathize here or sympathize with the struggle here because, like, my wife is also in the business. Right? Mhmm. Not working alongside me, but she's also in real estate.

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: And so it's a struggle, and we have to set boundaries on date night.

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: We cannot talk about real estate. And there's not much else to talk about. It's really unfortunate.

Katie: Like, so what'd you do today?

Steve: Right? So I totally, get that on the boundary side. What advice then would you give someone that's, like, starting a new venture with their spouse?

Katie: Be patient and, give your partner the freedom to grow. Because if you're watching over them the whole time, they're gonna feel intimidated. It's gonna be really hard for them to actually express and and do what they need to do with you know how it is when someone's when you're getting your driver's license and the the guy is right next to you and he's staring at every move writing it down, it's intimidating. And that's, like, with many different things in life. And so when you give your partner the freedom to do something, let them do it.

And then you can come together and talk about what needs to be fixed or what they did really well. But, for myself, when we first started, I feel like it would have been much easier if I was able to try it on my own Mhmm. And see how I did, and then collectively, we came together. I mean, what what would you say?

Max: Yeah. I think the trusting each other too. Right? This is a huge trust component. I mean, obvious of course, if you're, like, in a relationship and you're marrying somebody, it's a huge trust.

And in building a business, that's just a a different way of relationship. And then also understanding that the same things apply to any relationship. It's, like, it's it's the support. It's it's feeding into those relationships, constantly, you see growing them. So and and accepting these challenges, I think that's the one thing when you when you do anything.

You go in a relationship, you marry, you do start a business with somebody, there's there's going to be challenges. You have to be aware of them and also accept the struggle. And when when you are in a struggling position, what I've learned is sometimes when you, you know especially if you do it both and you both have a bad day, you both, you know, low energy is low, but sometimes that's what you have to learn. It's like understanding, okay, my partner is currently really low. I need to evaluate, you know, elevate myself to help her get out of it so we can both feed each other to get out of it.

Because if both just feed into the negative emotion, it gets even farther down. So it's like the awareness of, like, okay. Hey. We will be both down right now. I know today sucked, and I'm really upset.

But my responsibility now is realizing it, and I have to, like, feed into her and helping it out and vice versa. Right? And I think this has been really helpful on both our sides. So we realized when it's time for us to go in and and help each other and, you know, change the focus and just be there for each other and say, you know, everything is going to be okay. I mean, we she had she had this funny thing.

Obviously, the last couple years, last two years have been a lot of hard has been a lot of hardship. Right? There was a lot of bad days, hard days, disappointment, a lot of pressure. And she usually always comes in the office, and she's, like, singing a song, you know. Every little thing is gonna be alright.

Katie: Oh, yeah.

Max: Don't worry. And it's like, it's so cute because then, like, you know, I'm, like, totally emotionally down at the moment. And then she comes in and, like, just leave me alone. And then I'm like, okay. You know you know, you're vibing.

Katie: I start, like, singing it in his ear and then Yeah.

Max: Yeah. And it helps. It's just like the relationship of, like, you're right, babe. This is gonna be fine. Let's just, you know, breathe and continue.

Alright.

Steve: That's awesome. So, I wanna answer the audience's questions.

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: Before we get to audience questions, we're gonna take a very quick commercial break.

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Steve: Alright. So, looking at the questions here, the first one on YouTube is from Paul Brennan. So question is, are you guys coaching?

Max: Yes. Actually, we we haven't really rolled it out yet, you know, as an official coaching. But we have taken some some students on on a mentorship side of things. We have a lot of wholesalers that are transitioning into understanding how to syndicate deals, acquiring rentals, a lot of creative financing. That was one of the things we started learning six, eight months ago, and we really took that absolutely serious because I saw the immense power of it moving forward.

So we're helping a lot of people understanding their creative financing. And, we have some newer students now that came in at a brand new two of those states. So we're starting, like, hey. You know, how to get started? A lot of mindset, foundation set up, all the things that we talk about and, you know, guiding them through.

And then, eventually, we joined venture with our students. We had one student eventually, was it two, three years ago? We closed on a deal now that he got credit financing. We fixed it up. We helped him fund the deal.

Everything, basically. He just found it, and he gets seen how I think, but we helped him. I guess it's his first deal, first resume. Amazing for us, amazing for him. So we started coaching, and we really want to get I think it's almost almost how to say this.

Right? We have gotten so much information from other people way ahead of us. Right? And it's like, how can I ever give back to you? You literally just, like, gave me all the information I needed to, you know, break out of the system.

How can I give back to you? And there's nothing you can possibly do to give back. But it's almost like now it's your responsibility to give back and help somebody else break out of the cycle, help somebody else, you know, overcome the struggles, and just be there for somebody. But for us, we would not be here without mentorships, people that have helped us, people that are the rock in the ocean, and we cannot swim anymore. And for us, it's like, you know, now we've accomplished a lot of things.

It's it's giving back to the community, helping other people succeed, and that's just, it's just a huge reward for us, an emotional side of things that

Katie: seem like the biggest reward for us, I think.

Steve: Yeah.

Max: Yeah. So, yeah, we started it's it's vormacoaching.com. Really simple. Last name, vormacoaching.com. We have a breakdown there of of what we offer and how it works.

And so if if anyone is interested, you know, watch the video, reach out to us, and then we can hop on a call and and see if, if you can bring value to you or even just, like, joint ventures or anything that you guys have. In fact, actually, you guys can also just, text me directly. It might be easier. Just got, a new business phone. It's (541) 526-3369.

It's, basically, my phone my cell phone. So just text me and say, hey. Listen to the Steve Chang podcast. I have questions about x y z or I have a deal. You know, I need a GP.

Whatever it might be, I'm happy to take a look and and help you guys out the way, you know, people have helped us. So don't hesitate to reach out to me at all. I don't bite. I'm happy to help.

Steve: Yeah. So, you know, you touched on you talked about mindset. Right? And well, first, before I get into that, totally echo with you, what you're saying. Right?

Like, it's more fulfilling. It's so rewarding to help other people move forward. Right? Yeah. In in in growing.

It's, it's crazy because, like, you think when you first get into the business, like, I'm doing it for money, freedom, time freedom. In reality, soul fulfillment far exceeds any of that. Yeah. So you're talking about mindset. So I remember I used to go to these events, right, these real estate events, and they talk about mindset, mindset, mindset.

It'd be so frustrating. It's like, I don't care about the mindset stuff. Just give me the goods. Give me the the techniques, the tactics, and this and that. What I was taking entirely for granted was that I'm fortunate to already have been to grow with a strong mindset.

Right? It was instilled in us. Like, failure was not an option. You're gonna get straight a's. You're gonna win whatever you do.

And if you're not, like, it's massive disappointment. Like, that Mhmm. There was no reward for success. It's only disappointment for failure. So growing up with that, I thought this mindset thing was, like, you know, it's for someone else.

Like, it's a waste of time, like, just getting into the tactics. So you spend a lot of time on mindset. So I'm asking this question because it's obvious you're persistent. You got a strong mindset. Right?

You would not be, an international competitor in Decathlon if you didn't already have a strong mindset. Yep. So how then are you talking about mindset or something that you probably already have given to you?

Max: So it's really funny. Our our coaching calls with our students as an example, the first call is always about mindset. And that's the first ten minutes, I feel the same energy. It's like, just give me, like, you know, how do I do self financing?

Katie: What's the key?

Max: And I'm always like what's the

Steve: secret what's the secret formula?

Max: Yeah. And I'm always like, this is the most important call. This is going to set you up for the future of being successful or not. It's the only difference between you not fit not succeeding in your feeling is your mindset. You need to believe in yourself.

Right? So and, and for us both, you know, again, I guess you're lucky it came natural because you've done sports for so long. And, as a as a child growing up, I actually was really, really sick. I had asthma, and doctors initially told me I could never be an athlete. And there was the first time, you know, that the thing got activated in my brain.

It was like, I don't believe you. Like, I want to be an athlete. And, you know, I put my mind towards it, and I'm doing whatever it takes to go to Olympic games and be a amazing athlete. And there there it all started. Right?

Everything after is history. So I learned, you know, if you train your mind this is like in sports. If you train your mind, your body will follows. And a lot of I mean, you can talk to any professional athlete these days. They know the importance of mindset.

Nutrition can be perfect. Training can be perfect. Everything can be perfect. If your mindset is not straight, you're not going to be successful. On the other side, if you have a, you know, bad day, bad nutrition, you might have, you know, stomach issues, but your mindset is killer, you will succeed.

And mindset comes also with energy. Like, the guys with the great great mindset, you know, you can see it on the field. Like, they are cocky. They know they're good because of the mindset. And their mindset is feeding, and it almost scares the other people around them.

Right? Now overlapping it to business is a lot of people forget that business is the same thing. I mean, you're starting a journey, and if you cannot believe in yourself, who else is going to believe in you? Because nobody at the beginning is going to believe in you that you will be successful. Right.

Right. So one of the things you always tell the students is write down a story. Like, basically, pretend you're in 2024 right now. Write down the story looking backwards in the present tense of, like, what have you accomplished the last twelve months? Right?

And about, you know, spiritual goals, personal goals, business goals, physical goals. Write down everything. Just go all out of, like, what what do you think you can accomplish and put 10% more on that. Make it something that you seems to be feasible to accomplish, but also scares you in a way of, like, okay. This is not easy.

And then we usually go in and we read this every single morning. So we we we meditate. Or, basically, right before right when you wake up, there's, like, a fifteen minute window between the first and the second alarm, which is, like, in the sleep phase where you're not really awake, if you just have positive self talk, positive affirmations, and that's a game changer because you're, like, going straight in your brain, straight in your unconscious mind of, like, you know, we're going to be successful. And I think all our success has been built on it because when we had nothing, it was all we had. It's like our mindset.

Going in, positive self talk, writing out, like, how how is our story gonna look like in next year. So you put it on paper what the future is looking like, and you consistently remind yourself, and you consistently, find solutions of, like, how can I get there? What is this gonna take? And then consistently on a daily basis, feeding emotions into this visual component of, like, you know, next year, I have, you know, 10 rentals. So I'm breaking out.

I'm I'm quitting my job. How does that feel? And that feeling you take on every single day when you work of, like, I'm successful. It's going to work out. I think that's the most powerful weapon.

I mean, all the the, you know, fine tuning and, like, tactics and systems process, all that is easily accomplished. But if the mindset is straight, you will be successful with anything you do.

Steve: So what I need you to do after the show is go find Kyler Murray.

Max: Right. He's the

Steve: quarterback for the Cardinals. He's a terrible mindset.

Max: If

Steve: you fix him, you might actually have a real team. Right. Anything you wanna add to that?

Katie: Well, Steve, for you or for myself, I actually before I fall asleep, I'm actually thinking about my future. I'm, like, manifesting Mhmm. When I'm gonna drive, what my house is gonna look like, what I'm gonna do with my kids. I do that, and I don't know if that's normal. Do you do you think about your future before you fall

Max: asleep? Stopped it because then I can't fall asleep. I like to do it in the morning because it sets me up for success. I've I've tried it, but then I get too caught, you know, caught up in it, and then now I just can't sleep. I'm getting too excited.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's like, it's the moment before I fall asleep that I'm able to really shut everything out and just think about what's most important to me, and that's my future and how I'm gonna spend my time with my kids and with Max. So for you, do you what do you manifest your future? And if so, is that

Steve: I used to. I used to be a lot more disciplined in my morning routines. Right? I used to wake up at, five, and then I would read my affirmations, look at my vision board, and this and that. Mhmm.

I've become a little more complacent. Right? So now I wake up at five, and I just go work out. So it's either basketball or going to the gym. I think that for me, this is instead of and this could be wrong.

Right? It's probably wrong. So right now, it's not really looking at my affirmations and vision. It's really more of, like, every day we see what's possible. You know?

Like, a lot of people say comparison is a thief of joy. Right? And I think that's that's true for most people.

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: For me, I look at comparison as an opportunity. Oh, that's possible. Oh, maybe I can pursue that.

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: Oh, you can do this. So it fires me up and inspires me. So I'm always, you know, looking at that. And so I don't look at it and feel bad for me. I look at it like, wow.

That's possible.

Katie: Yeah. You know,

Steve: what can we do to pursue that now? Also, the challenge for me is exercising restraint. Like, that is, for me, the hardest part is not is not dreaming. That's not the hardest part. The hardest for me is to okay.

How can we just stay focused and ensure that we're we're focused on the right thing and we're allocating resources appropriately? Yeah. Truth be told, that is the hardest thing for me. It's not the it's not to go hard. It's how do I

Max: Mhmm.

Steve: Slow down.

Katie: Yeah. Mhmm. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: And then so, Bernardo. So, yeah, believing in yourself is the case. He's absolutely right. Nico wants to know, does the Bob Marley song come in with a joint? Nope.

Katie: I would say sometimes.

Max: We then joined?

Katie: Oh, I thought you meant, like, he joins.

Steve: No. No. No. Oh, so he'll join. No.

With a joint.

Katie: No. Unfortunately, not.

Max: No. I mean, I I've I've never drunk alcohol or anything.

Steve: Oh, you

Katie: have drinking alcohol, but you haven't done?

Max: I've maybe in my life, I've maybe drinking five mojitos. To summarize it. Literally, I mean, it was like and then it was during the time period where I did not train. But I'm, like, the the most boring kind of person. I only drink water, juice, and eat, like, a I don't go fast food, no alcohol, nothing.

Because it's like you know, I'd understand, like, from a athletic perspective, anything you put into your your body is, like, basically your fuel. So, like, I always knew that. So it was always high in nutrition and, so no. We don't we don't do anything like that.

Steve: That makes total sense. Right? I mean, looking at your, like, your social media. Right? Like, watching you train, you know, you you dress a little differently when you're training.

I

Katie: was like,

Steve: damn. That guy looks good.

Max: So,

Steve: which of the 10 events that you run is the least favorite to train for?

Max: The endurance. Endurance? Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.

A 100000%.

Katie: The endurance

Max: is the 1,500 because it's the one that hurts the most. And the training really starts when it hurts. It's the bad thing about it. Like, you know, high drum, all these events, you have three, four good jumps. They feel great.

They feel easy. Jump high. You're done. It's like, what else are you trying to get out of this training? It worked.

Endurance is like you have to run so hard until it hurts, and then when it hurts is when the actual training starts. Because then you, you know, again, your your body is telling you to stop, but you gotta know you have to do harder because in the meet, your body's gonna tell you to stop. And you gotta, like, overcome that and push the boundaries to get to, you know, your finish line and you break personal records. So the endurance component is always, you know, every time I wake up, but it almost, like, sets you straight because it's just how how life is too. Right?

It's it's it's tough.

Steve: What's fascinating to me, you say endurance is the hardest part or the most challenging part because I would suspect it requires a good amount of endurance to compete in 10 events.

Max: It does. Right? There's a lot of I guess it's not in it's not really endurance itself. It's just general fitness. Mhmm.

Right? Because, like, I train for four, five hours a day. So that general fitness itself gets you through the events. Right? Because you're doing three, four events.

You doing Olympic lifting, you're doing something like basic endurance. So there's obviously, there is an endurance component to it, but it's not like a steady endurance, like a, you know, ten minute run or interval run. Like, those things hurt a lot more than, like, the, you know, going from high jump to high jump or whatever it is. So there's the general fitness, but then, obviously, you also need to run after nine events. You still have, you know, 1,500.

So you have to train a certain tempo level feeling to to, you know, be really fast, even the 400 meters. So that is torture.

Katie: And they save that event for the last.

Max: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I mean,

Steve: I don't

Max: know if

Katie: I'm gonna stop. Event is the 1,500. It makes no sense to me because by that time, they're dead after doing all nine events. So I'm not a runner. I can't process it.

Max: You know, you're not body from a body perspective, you're not really shaped to be endurance runners. Right? There's a lot of, volume that goes with me when I run. You know, it's 200 pounds of muscles of so it's, you know, machines and everything is telling me, like, dude, you're too heavy to run a mile. No.

Like, you should just stick to the 100.

Katie: That's where the mindset kicks in. Right.

Steve: Well, that's how my body feels when I built around a mile.

Max: I feel the same.

Steve: So, how was the process for finding buyers? I'm guessing here in this instance is probably when you guys were wholesaling. Mhmm.

Max: How were

Steve: you guys finding buyers when you guys were wholesaling? This is from, Caleb.

Max: Good question. I think, eventually, when when a wholesale business kicked in, more and more is we did a reverse wholesale. So we actually looked for buyers first and then looked for deals afterwards. You know, when when this position started getting a little more more complicated, it was almost like looking for buyers. And there there's obviously multiple ways of of going about that.

You know, if you have no access to to software and tools, you can you can utilize softwares like PropStream, where you just look like who has recently bought. You know, you pull a buyers list, and you call call them the same way you would call an acquisition lead, obviously, you have a different conversation. You're talking to local real estate agents who might have, you know, investors depending on what kind of deals you have. And, you know, joining local Facebook groups. There's a lot of buyers in Facebook groups the same way than there's people trying to sell.

And then, of course, if you have, you know, funds and you wanna invest in things like InvestorLift or other platforms out there that have buyer boxes, it's just kinda like getting the first couple and then eventually, like, reaching people. But also just, like, dispositioning your stuff on the open market. Right? If you're doing wholesaling with the thing that we did, it was innovation, going directly to the MLS, you can access a lot of retail buyers, eventually building a buyers list for upcoming deals. Right?

You always shop around of if you don't close a deal with the other guys of interest, so you keep in your buyers list. You stay persistent. Every week you follow-up, tell them, like, hey. Are you looking for deals? Are you still buying?

Is the buying box still the same thing?

Katie: But we found most of our buyers through Facebook Marketplace, surprisingly.

Max: Yeah. Actually, they're right.

Katie: We disbowed, gosh, probably more than we any other platform.

Max: Until Until we started, like, doing on the housing side innovation. But, yeah, Facebook Marketplace was huge. We had a lot of people reach out on Facebook Marketplace and build And

Katie: I guess it was a little different though because we were wholesaling land

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: Until we got into homes. We were wholesaling land, and a lot of that land was easily disposed through Facebook Marketplace.

Steve: So did you have any con concerns to follow-up from YouTube, from, Caleb on YouTube here? Do you have any concerns when you were expanding that you spread your efforts then?

Max: No. No. Because we we came in with the goal of, like, understanding the ins and outs and not moving forward to the next thing until we hit a certain success ratio. Right? So we we didn't just, like, go in to do it, like, halfway.

We went in to get really decent at it and then feel uncomfortable to do the next step. And by all means, it was never a goal of, like, going, you know, in two years through all these things. Like, we probably thought we're gonna stick to wholesale. You know, if the economy would have been great, like, it was the last couple years, you probably would have still wholesale. But we got pushed in it.

It might actually just be, like, a higher purpose. Right? Maybe our purpose was going more into that direction. Again, we tried to find what is the right real estate thing for us. And, it was always some kind of hardship, something that didn't go right.

They woke us up, and then we made adjustments. We pivoted and we, you know, adjusted. You know, the reason why we went eventually from wholesaling houses to fix and flip, we had 10, 10 wholesales in escrow and all the buyers backed out. And we're like, shoot, you know, now we are, you know, losing earnest money. We we don't wanna lose our face.

What are we going to do? But all these deals make sense for a buyer on a flip flip side. So why don't we just close and find a way to close them and do it ourselves. Right? So again, it was it was not like, hey.

Let's just go and fix and flip. It was like we had to figure something out because, like, now we had all these opportunities. I didn't want not wanna lose on them, but I knew I had the chances to continue. And then it was, you know, just kinda, like, being pushed in that direction, pivoting, being pushed to the wall, pivoting, and then finding solutions to continue. So it it almost naturally happened.

But it was never by all means, like, oh, in three months, you're gonna, you know, do the next thing. It was it just happened.

Katie: We just followed the flow of the market.

Steve: Yeah. And that works. Nico wants to know, how do you guys comp land?

Max: Comping land is actually fairly simple. Right? Because and it it depends on, like, what kind of land. Right? There's infillots, there's huge acreage out there, or, like, on the infillot perspective.

I mean, the simplest way is always looking for comps that recently sold in a similar size. Right? It's it's with anything that you have there. Now you don't really have to factor in, you know, rehab components because it's just bare land. You know, might have to do some research understanding if there's, you know, city utilities nearby, if you have to drag utilities to that property.

There's obviously add, things to the property. You have to do your research on wetland or any soil issues that might impact your development. But what you're really doing is you under you're basically looking at from a develop an influx at least from a development perspective. So if there's no comps, what you can do is you just go and get the ARV of properties nearby. Right?

And then, like, okay, if somebody would come and buy this land and build something similar, and they would appraise for this, like, $450,000, but usually the land ratio is on 20%. So, you know, the land value is probably 20% of that retail value. Now they obviously wanna buy the discounts. You might have to buy the 15% or 10% of what the retail value is. But it's fairly simple because there's not much, you know, numbers to it.

And on the housing side with rehab and blah blah blah. But it's more just like you're looking at the overall picture of the value component, and then just, like, discounting for the land if you if you have no comps, if you're just looking at, at houses. And then if you go off grid, you know, these forty, fifty acre parcels in the middle of the desert, those ones are really hard to evaluate because there's usually no comms. And then it's more of like just putting a It's

Katie: more of a guessing game

Max: in the summer. Not really a guess. You just have to really do a lot of research and see where's the value with like, what can you do with it and how is that what do you do with the property in future valued in the here and now of the existing land? And it comes over time. But these ones are definitely a lot more complicated to to value you.

Steve: So besides financial freedom, what else do you guys enjoy about real estate?

Katie: Travel. We're able to travel and do work from wherever we want. I think that's something that we really love to do because when we travel, we get to be presented to many different cultures. And, ultimately, I think

Max: I think another really thing that that really rubs me the right way with real estate is you're improving neighborhoods. I mean, as an investor, you're coming in, you're picking properties up that nobody picks up, and ultimately your goal is to improve them, but bring it to somebody who's improving them. Right? So over time, now when we drive to certain neighborhoods, we see what we've done to it. We see the properties that we've developed.

We see how, you know, communities develop. And also, you know, in a long run, you know, you're reducing crime. You're bringing in, and deals. Like, a good example right now is that that multifamily that we're building, it was actually bought an existing 22 unit, but it was more like a homeless shelter, class a area. Everyone was complaining about it because a lot of crime was happening in that area because it attracted crime.

So now we come in, tear it down, redevelop something, we actually help improve the neighborhood, we help the entire, community reducing the crime. So, like, now in five years, when we drive by as an example, it's like, you have an impact. Right? And then by the time you have kids, you can show them something like, hey, listen, this is what we built. And this is, like, we have an impact that is almost ideally, that stays there longer than you are.

Right? If you pass, some of your projects might still day stay there, and your kids might take over. Right? So there's there's this legacy impact to it that is, that's huge. And I think that has a huge, motivation for us.

Steve: So starting with you, Katie, what is your why?

Katie: I think I have many whys, but I think my first why is really for the time I will be able to spend with my loved ones because I'm a very family oriented person. And, I face my parents every day. My brother's 11. I I have a couple sisters, this and that. But my main goal is really to be able to spend the time with them because time is valuable and, things happen very quickly and suddenly.

And, for me, being able to spend moments with the people I love is probably my biggest why. So, you know, when we have kids, I wanna go to their, soccer games, their musical events. I wanna be able to be there all the time and spend the time with them. So time time is my why, but focus more on time with my family.

Steve: Yep. I think it's

Max: the same thing for me. It's freedom. It might be absurd. Right? Because I'm only 24, but I always think about life is so short.

If you really put it in a perspective, you know, you might live eighty, ninety years, but this is so short. And then what just didn't make sense to me, it doesn't make sense to me at all. It's like most people, you know, work until their sixties, and then they finally retire, and then they're able to see the world and do what they want, but then they're too old for it. It's like the the the fall of money is why you have nothing and you gain it over time, but you're losing your health and everything with it. So for me, that was like, I I don't want this.

I would need to break out of the system. I need to enjoy life while I'm really young. I need to do all the things I wanna do while I'm young. And then when I have kids, I wanna be the 100%. I wanna see everything about him.

I don't wanna ever be gone. Right? Almost like obsession because it's like you're creating a human being that you put in the world. Right? I really wanna be there.

And, so just having that freedom of doing what you want and when you want. Right? For me, like, going and training in the morning time, track and field is certainly not a sport where you get rich. Right? It's not a million dollar sports.

You do it because you're passionate about it. And for me, it's like, I don't have the passion now to find sponsors and pay for me to go to me. It's just like I do it because I love it. And every morning, I'm grateful. Like, hey.

I can go right now and work out for four hours because it's fun, and, I don't have any pressure. Right? So that freedom component is just massive. Yeah.

Steve: I think when I was a kid, there was, like, one or maybe two decathletes that were sponsored by, like, McDonald's or something.

Max: Back in

Katie: the day McDonald's.

Max: That's the thing anymore. Alright.

Steve: Like, I think that's it. Right? Like, if you're gonna get rich in decathlons, it's Yeah.

Max: I know. It's a spack and field.

Katie: That's not really sad.

Steve: But, what are what are you guys' biggest struggle right now?

Max: The biggest struggle right now is is uncertainty. Right? The the market, clearly, you don't have a crystal ball. Clearly, I've not been through a posture session, so I'm I'm really guiding to you were just maybe in diapers. Yeah.

Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. I'm

Max: just guiding through other people's experience of, like, you know, what happened last time for you, and how did you pivot, and, like, how can I take that experience and use it for myself? So the uncertainty is clearly, the biggest stone on our shoulders right now. We're making moves, but we I don't know if it's the right time right now. You know, maybe three months, things look totally different. Right?

I mean, the last couple of months have been really disrupting to a certain degree. So, it's about just being very conservative, being really careful with what we do, like, double, triple checking our numbers, making sure we can be make educated decisions, taking low risk, being conservative, and, setting us up for success. So that's probably, like, the biggest struggle of not really knowing what is going on and how to pivot. But, again, you're taking it day by day. You're learning every day what happens, and you kinda take it to the next one.

Right?

Katie: Yeah. I think that's our really our biggest struggle.

Steve: Yeah. And then how do you guys stay motivated? It might seem like a silly question, but how do you guys stay motivated?

Katie: I stay motivate motivated because of my why. I constantly think about my why while I'm driving before bed, when I'm brushing my

Max: teeth. Yeah. I mean, it's like you're living it. Right? So you're living that that life at some point.

And it's it's almost like when I get unmotivated, I just look back of, like, where we started and where we've been, and it always kicks right in. It's like, wow. Like, wait a second. Like, what have you accomplished in such a short amount of time? You know, two years ago, we were visualizing doing that, visualizing how it feels and over here.

So bringing you back to just being humble and appreciating what you've accomplished and being excited for, you know, what else can I do in the next two years, you know? Yeah. I saw you guys' post. They are getting 1% better every single day, and it it puts it to the and, you know, to the top. I was like, what can we do in the next two years?

You know? What can we do in the next four years? It's like an excitement of this just comes from sports. It's like consistently pushing your limits and see how good can you go. Like, what's your limit?

And it's the same with with with business. Like, what else can we do? How good can we go? Right?

Katie: Yeah. And also, like, not only do I stay motivated because of my why, but I also stay motivated because of Max. When I'm not feeling motivated, I look at Max and he's, like, on the computer, you know, sending he has two three phones. He's like, this, that, this, that. And I'm like, what is he working for?

And I'm like, oh, yeah. He's working for our freedom. Yeah. So, you know, if you do have a partner, it could be a business partner, it could be a a wife, a husband, any kind of partner, and they're in it with you. Like, when you're feeling down, look at them and let their energy feed onto you.

Steve: Yeah.

Katie: And and your partner needs to be aware of that. When when you're not feeling motivated, your partner needs to come to you and sing, don't worry.

Steve: Yeah. How will you know when you're successful?

Max: How do we know in the current or will we know?

Steve: Starting with Katie here.

Max: Was it is it a will or How will you know when you're successful?

Katie: You will know when you're successful.

Max: That's a good question.

Katie: That is a good question. You'll know when you'll maybe when you'll that's a really good question. I would say when you have more time to breathe, when you have more time to gosh. That's a tough question.

Max: Tough. I think we gotta over we

Katie: need to go over you'll always you'll never be as successful as you can be. I feel like when you do hit that point where you feel like you're successful, I feel like you're like, no. I didn't really hit that yet. Like, that's not my goal. I have a bigger goal.

I have bigger aspirations. You know? So for us, we are successful, and we were successful the day that we started, actually. Taking that first initial step to get into something you're not comfortable with is a huge growth. It's just a huge part of your growth, and that's very successful.

So it depends on how you look at it because we're successful, but we're not where we wanna be. So I would say, you know when you're successful when you're doing what you are supposed to be doing and and what you're working towards.

Max: When you love what you're doing. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. That's a good yeah. When you love what you're doing.

Max: Yeah. Seeing how how do you define success? Right? Everyone has different perspective of, like, what is success to them? But I think if you're if you love what you're doing, you know you're getting better, you know on the right path, you're successful.

Yeah. Anything you do, you know, okay. I'm getting better today than yesterday. I'm committed. I'm moving in the right direction.

I'm making moves. That is success. Right? Success is the journey to the end goal, but not the end goal itself. Right?

The end goal is just a quick flush, and you're there, and you're like, okay. What's next? But the the the journey there, the improvements you do, the people you meet, the habits you change, the person you become, that's the success.

Steve: Yep. Yep. What is Katie's superpower?

Max: Katie's superpower is people. She's, like, the people person. I don't think there's anyone who doesn't like her.

Katie: Oh, that's not true.

Max: Usually, I send her for first because then she, you know, eases in and she, like, builds a relationship. And then I it's a good callback cop. And then I come in with the facts and the numbers and then we close them, but she's a people person, absolutely, 100%.

Steve: What's his superpower?

Katie: Determination. Consistency. I mean, gosh. He has many superpowers, including doing a decathlete or decathlon. Sorry.

But definitely being consistent and determined because he will find a way, and he will get it done. Yeah. That's that.

Steve: And consistency is a superpower. You know? Like, it's it's one of the hardest things to do as an entrepreneur is to stay focused.

Max: Yep. You

Steve: know? Yeah. I was in, Rafael Cortez's office a couple weeks ago, and the joke we made, right, like, we'll do like, as an entrepreneur, we'll do anything it takes to be successful except for consistency. Like, that's the one thing that we'll totally just excuse ourselves. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah.

Max: Alright.

Steve: I will wake up early. I will work out. I'll be better. Whatever.

Max: Just need to do it consistently.

Katie: How many times can you do it, though? That's the real question. That's fine. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So it's definitely a superpower. What is the how did you guys learn your greatest lesson?

Katie: Through other people.

Max: Not being afraid of doing it. Mhmm. That that being afraid of failing is almost worse than failing. Because we have learned the most by being pushed to the wall and just not accepting a plan b. You know, we started with nothing, and we wouldn't certainly not be here if we would be in a more comfortable.

You always, you know, tell when we when we drive, you know, neighborhoods, we we create mansions, and we see those kids, they're like, dude, if you would have gone up this way with all the financial support, imagine where it would be, and then, like, no. We wouldn't be anywhere because we would not have to push and determination to do it. So I think that was, learning from failure. Unfortunately, life is so absurd. Right?

Like, all great success somewhat has to happen in a downturn and from failure. It's not just like an upside, you know, journey that always continues to go better. It's it's those down turning moments that keep pushing you and that almost, like, keep life is, like, challenging you. It's, like, how bad do you really want it. Right?

Steve: Well, I I I appreciate, you know, you're asking that question. Like, you know, like, where we where would we be if we were in front of, like, if we live in this area. But, I mean, for me, I think part of it is, you know, we have chip on our shoulders. Right? Like, grew up super, super poor.

Right? I mean, like, when we were growing up, like, my dad shared, like, one of his saddest moments was living in Arizona. Right? We weren't born here. Right?

I came here as immigrants. But living in Arizona, I think I was, like, two or three, and he's driving a car with no air conditioning. Right? Pretty tough in Arizona to be driving a car without AC. Yeah.

Yeah. Right? So yeah. Definitely.

Katie: And that sticks with you throughout everything you do.

Steve: Well, stuck with him. I have no memory of this. Right? Oh. I I all I remember growing up was living in a mobile home.

That's all I remember. Living in a mobile home, eventually moving living in apartments, and then living in a a HUD home and whatever. Like, we grew up poor, but I didn't know.

Katie: Mhmm. That was your normal.

Max: There was. Yeah.

Steve: I I didn't know we were poor. Right? My dad didn't know. So

Katie: Yeah. That's crazy.

Steve: What books have you guys gifted more than any other?

Max: Oh my gosh. There's so many books.

Katie: You do read a lot.

Max: What I've learned to be that the code personally is, audible because you spend so much time, you know, driving, cooking, cleaning the house, but you could not actively read. So you just plug it in and then I I mean, this is, like, almost like a game changer for us. Really good books. There's so many.

Katie: I have a bad memory. I'm not gonna lie. What's the book we're reading now?

Max: Your Future Self Now?

Katie: Yeah. I like that book, just because I manifest a lot. And, it's it talks really heavily about planning your future self and documenting it and then allowing yourself to, yeah, create it.

Steve: That's doctor Ben Hardy? Yep. Yeah. Cool.

Max: I think right now I'm reading a 10 x again, and I like it a lot because, you know, Grant Cardona is the same kinda energy. Yeah. I like that energy of him, and and he's so right about, like, taking massive action. It's really where it takes consistent massive action, cutting off all the noises and just focusing on on a 10 x. And, it's a good book.

There's certainly other books with more, like, detail on, like, certain things, but, like, just a motivational book, it always gets me going. Yeah. Especially the audio version because he's actually The

Katie: audio is the best.

Max: He's like,

Katie: oh,

Max: every time when I drive, you know, to training in the morning, I've, like sometimes I drive to IMG. It's, like, an hour thirty drive for me. 5AM in the morning, I listen to him, and it's like, I'm like, okay. After, I'm gonna go. Start calling.

Steve: So I struggle with Grant Cardone. He's just a little too much for me, but I did add, you know, to my affirmations, right, when I was reading it regularly. Right? Success is my obligation, duty, and responsibility. Yeah.

Right? Like, that was one that was one of my, lines I always had when I was reviewing my reviewing my affirmations. Right? Like, you have a responsibility to be successful.

Katie: Yeah.

Steve: So many people depend.

Katie: Rely on you. Yeah. That's so true.

Steve: So I want you guys to think about the last thoughts that, you guys wanna leave everyone with. Think about that before I make a couple of quick announcements. Guys, if you're valued today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. It helps us reach more people. And we do have our sales leadership event coming up Friday and Saturday.

Next, we got mister Wren Bartlett coming down here, talk about what it takes to build a team that wants to run and operate like the entrepreneur. Right? Like, the biggest complaint we often hear is, like, the guys don't run it as hard as I do. You can have your salespeople work just as hard as you do if you can lead them the right way. And talks about how to do that.

If that's interesting to you, text leaders to 33777. And next week, we got Tim Harridge coming here. And I've had a chance to have a conversation with him at IMN event. It's insane, his story, what he's been able to do. What he's been able to do, you know, I think a fraction of us, like, we can only just dream about.

So Mhmm. Definitely check-in next week with mister Tim Harridge. What are the thoughts you guys wanna leave everyone with?

Katie: I just wanna really focus on, mindset. Mindset's everything. Without mindset, you won't go anywhere. Don't let other people tell you you can't do it because you can. If you run into a broker and they tell you you can't do it or you talk to your parents and they say you can't do it, use that.

And a lot of people do use that as, like, a a fuel to their fire. Right?

Steve: On the shoulder.

Katie: Yeah. Because, ultimately, the first thing you wanna do is prove them wrong.

Max: Mhmm.

Katie: But seriously though, like, without your true positive mindset, you you won't succeed.

Max: Yeah. Oh, yeah. So right. I think train your mind and your body will follow was always my inspiration in sports. One of my big role models always, mentioned that early on when I was growing up.

It was train your mind and your body will follow, and I think this goes with with everything in life, business, work, relationships, setting the core between your your eyes. Right? Your brain is the core feeling of your emotions, and you're summarizing all our success. It's like, don't don't get hung up in or don't be afraid to get started. I think a lot of people are afraid to get started.

Wait for the perfect timing. There's never a perfect timing. Like, perfect timing was yesterday. Right? You gotta get started right now.

Take action, and stay consistent. And then I think with anything you will do, success is just a formula of massive action and consistency. There's no you you know, I always tell people, like, in sports, there is a certain level of talent they just can't beat. But there's always somebody so gifted that, you know, they are world record holders. Like, okay, you cannot beat them.

Right? But on the other side in businesses, it's it's consistency, network, and taking action. There's no such thing that he's more gifted. Right? Mhmm.

You don't have to be the smartest to be the the richest, but certainly not. Right? So that that is really what I took from, starting businesses. Everyone can be successful. And if you have to write motivation and set yourself up the right way, you will be successful.

Katie: Yeah. And that like, for an example, if you're on a diving board, that feeling you get right before you're about to jump, where it's like your stomach is tightening and you're, like, sweating and you don't know if you can do it, that is the perfect time when you're actually supposed to jump. Yep. There's no better time. It's that immediate feeling you get in your stomach where you're like, oh, shit.

I'm about to do it. I I don't know if I can do it. That's when you gotta jump. So Yeah. Jump right into it.

Steve: I think that's a great way to, encapsulate that that feeling. Yeah. How can somebody get ahold of you guys?

Katie: Gosh. Our social media is probably number one. We are we just started our social media, so it's up and coming. But the more followers we get, the more people we can touch. So our social media and our bio, it has our coaching program if you'd like to see what we're about.

We also have our number in our bio. So our social

Steve: media is handle.

Max: Katie under is it underscore? Is it what it's called? Katie?

Katie: Katie underscore Max underscore Bulmer.

Max: Yeah. So we we basically post every day, try to stay consistent, at least one content every single day. And we really try to be as real as possible, like, showing that the things that we do on a daily basis, the thing that, you know, goes through our mind, being as real and as emotional as possible, and then giving us much value as possible, to build our community. We really enjoyed it. It keeps us accountable and, you know, filming all day to day.

So there's on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. There's a lot of stuff they put out in a daily basis, and they put a lot of work into it to make it, you know, good look good, sound good for everyone. And then, he actually said they can find us on social media. They can direct message us. We don't have, like, any VAs or anything answering us or with anything that you guys have.

Text, call us directly. Like I said, my phone number, if not given about any other podcast, but I guess I'll do it now. It's TD5415263369. And it's directly my my cell phone. So call me after the after text me if there's anything I can do.

I'm happy to to help.

Steve: Awesome. Alright. Thank you so much. Thank

Max: you, Steve. Thanks for having us.

Steve: Thank you. Thank you guys all for watching. See you guys tomorrow on parting the disruption.