From Homeless to 7-Figure Flipping Land, Working 4 Hours a Day

Ray Zhang: Two trains. Jump on a steep train. We real estate disruptors.

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of real estate disruptors. So we got Ray Jong with LandFlint LandFlip Incorporated. He He flew from Jacksonville, Florida to share how he went from homeless to 7 figures flipping land, working four hours a day. Now I am on a mission to create 100 millionaires.

The information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire next five to seven years. It would take consistent action. You will become one. And we've got something that we'll be launching in about thirty days officially, May 17. If you wanna be in the loop, go to stevetraintelegram.com.

I promise you, you're not gonna wanna miss this. And, if you get value out of the show, please tag your friend below, share this episode right now, hit the subscribe button. The more we work together, the more people we can help. And there's a live show, so please ask your questions. We're ready to answer.

You ready? Absolutely. Alright. So We're ready. Alright.

Perfect. Perfect. So the first question is Yeah. What was your life like right before you got into real estate?

Ray: So I was, I came to the America about twelve years ago.

Steve: Twelve years.

Ray: Yeah. Okay. I started learning English. You know? The fact that you can understand me is a miracle right now.

So

Steve: Hey. Twelve years. That's really good. That's awesome. What what where did you come from exactly?

Ray: From China.

Steve: Oh, part of China. Beijing. Pretty pretty big. So Beijing.

Ray: Yeah. Got

Steve: it. Okay. You did you come here for real estate?

Ray: No. I came here for school and I want I really hate my life. So I wanna change it. And, Hate of your life before you

Steve: got here or after you got here? Before.

Ray: Right. So I'm here as freedom. Right? So, I was thinking what to do because right after I came, I became homeless. So, I lived in the car for a couple months and I started to flip all different free stuff.

You know, the things that you can see every day, the microwave, the bat bed frame, you know, all those. And I started to do cars after that.

Steve: Got

Ray: it. And after that, I started to do real estate.

Steve: Okay. So you were in Beijing. Did you come here on a student visa or how did you get here?

Ray: Student visa. Came here

Steve: on a student visa. Yeah. What were you doing in Beijing?

Ray: Playing video games.

Steve: Right. Okay. Yeah. Which was pretty common or is still pretty common. Right?

Addiction to video games, I think, is one of those, like, things they're always trying to figure out how to resolve.

Ray: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. But were you, like, a a a did you study anything in college? Did you graduate college? Like, what what what were you leaving behind?

Ray: I was at least I was pretending to go to college. So I would go to this we have this Internet bar in China. Right? Mhmm. So I would go there on Monday morning and they'll come out on Saturday night.

And then I will go home and tell my mom I actually went to school, but I spend all my time playing video games. So

Steve: Okay. I mean, were you at least excellent at these video games?

Ray: I was a professional.

Steve: You were a professional. Were you getting paid for it? Yes. Oh, awesome. So what were you playing?

Ray: Counter Strike. So the Counter Strike. Shooting games.

Steve: Okay. So professionals, like, what kind of money are we talking about?

Ray: About $200 a month. 200 a month?

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So professional, but not something that you can work with.

Ray: We didn't have, Instagram. Those we can go live by then, but, you know, there's very minimum money.

Steve: Is that something you go back to? Could you play Counter Strike for money now?

Ray: Probably

Steve: not. Probably

Ray: not. That guy is super good right now.

Steve: Okay. So Yeah. You come here on a student visa. So you must have gone to college, and you must have show done some college to be able to get here on a student visa. Right?

Ray: I went to college, but didn't graduate in China. And then I came here and didn't graduate either. So I guess I'm not good at learning. Right? So Yeah.

Steve: So college was not the avenue. Yeah. So you became homeless immediately?

Ray: Yeah. Right after I came here, I started to live in the car. I remember I put my luggage in the back seat in between the gaps so that I can sleep. Flat.

Steve: Yeah. So did you know you were gonna be homeless when you got here?

Ray: I didn't know. But, you

Steve: know What was your plan when you got here?

Ray: Just see what's going on later on. Right? So I have to do it first. So this is

Steve: the ultimate. I'll figure it out when I get there. Yes. That's extreme. I'm pretty much in that camp of, like, I'm gonna jump off the bridge or the the the the cliff, and I'll build a plan on the way down.

Right. You actually Yeah. Jump off and build a plan on the way down.

Ray: Right. So when we we, when we do anything, there's some two motives. Right? The first motive is we want to avoid the pain. I absolutely hate my life.

I wanna change it. That's why I came to America. Mhmm. So, you know, I'll do whatever it takes.

Steve: Okay.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: So I assume then you weren't married at this time.

Ray: No. Okay. Alright.

Steve: Yeah. So you're homeless. You're flipping free stuff versus, like, off Craigslist?

Ray: Craigslist. There's a section on Craigslist. It's called free. You know? I just go there and just grab everything I can.

You know?

Steve: So, you know, I, when HDTVs first came out, I wanna say, like, 2002, 2003. Right? You had, like, the plasmas. Those are super expensive. But then we had eventually, we got, like, the Sony Vegas.

You remember those? Yeah. Right? They're super heavy.

Ray: Right.

Steve: So I got, like, one of the first, like, Sony Vegas back when I was in California. It was, like, really expensive TV. Right? But then technology improves. Isn't that Sony Vegas aren't very good.

Mhmm. So I remember I was trying to sell my TV. Right? Started a $100, $80, $40, $20. Like, no one wants

Ray: this TV for $20.

Steve: Yeah. No one wants this heavy TV.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: And I posted it for free. And I think I got, like, 20 different people that reached out to me. I was like, oh. Yeah. That's So that's kinda what you were doing.

Ray: Yeah. Maybe I already saw you. Right?

Steve: So So you go to their free section. You pick things up. So you just go to their houses. Like

Ray: Go to their houses.

Steve: Yeah. So I think that's the fascinating side hustle. So let's let's kinda spend some time here. If I wanna hustle off of the free stuff, like, what was the strategy?

Ray: So I actually have a student doing that right now. Okay. She's making about, 1,000 a week. Nice. She's doing this.

Okay. You know, so a lot of people say I don't want money to start that serious skills. Right? So, what whatever we do, the strategy is go to Craigslist. There's a free section.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: Or you can go to Facebook, on the marketplace. You can just search free.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: You'll be surprised what people will give you give it out for for free. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So you just search for free stuff. Yeah. You reach out to whoever's got it. You go to their house, pick it up. Yep.

And then you just repost it on Craigslist

Ray: or OfferUp? On Facebook. Yeah. On Facebook? OfferUp.

Yes.

Steve: And then that's that's just how you make your money.

Ray: Yeah. The key the key words is fast. So you have to do it fast. You have to keep scrolling and don't miss it. Right?

I mean

Steve: Yeah. To make 1,000 a week, I think being fast is okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm guessing here, you probably would drive to the nicer parts of town to get the free stuff.

Yeah. And then you post it on the way home, and you have it sold by the time you get home? Like, what's the

Ray: I would just post it, when I guide it on in the car, I would just post it right away. So Okay.

Steve: Yeah. But is it generally in nicer parts of town, you get the free get the free quality stuff, or am I or am I making it an overgeneralization?

Ray: I think it is. Middle class, richer area, and, because some people don't even have stuff to give out for free. Right? So Right. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So you started microwaves and or or what was the what was the fanciest thing you bought you got for free?

Ray: I got it, like, I remember there was a a a a CD player. You know, I sold it for, like, a $150. Sometime I sell it. If the item is very light, I'll sell it on eBay. Mhmm.

So, I sold it for a $150, I remember.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. So we have $1,000 a week. It's a lot of hustle. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because we have, you know, Ryan Penetti has been on the show a few times, and his whole thing is just flipping couches. Yep.

Right? So I imagine you probably seen his content around that. I saw that. Yeah. Okay.

So then you said you got into cars. Yeah. But cars is not the free section. No. Okay.

Yeah. So you hustle free stuff and you're involved in the cars. How long were you, hustling the free stuff? How long were you hustling in the in the cars?

Ray: So I start to flip cars and then I completely stopped the free stuff because I think it's a waste of time. Mhmm. But cars, there's a lot of money to be made. And I remember I still doing some time right now, but no, I don't have a lot of time. But by then, I was making about $30, $40 a a month just flipping cars.

Wow. Yeah. It's a profit.

Steve: It's a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. And it was still worth stop doing? It was still worth it to stop doing that one?

That sounds pretty good. 30 to 40,000 a month profit.

Ray: But the thing is, you know, I have to find the parking place. Sometime I just park in my car. The HOA don't like it. And, when I was in Hawaii, I park it along the street. People don't have even parking space.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: When I was in college, I park all my cars on the campus. That's why I got kicked out.

Steve: That's why I got kicked out of school.

Ray: Yeah. Yeah. So the principal actually live inside the campus. And one day he came out and there was spring spring break. So he was like, I thought this is a break.

And, we have so many cars on the parking lot. And who owned these cars? You know? And he called the security. The security saw the camera footage.

It was a Asian guy driving the BMW walking around, you know, and and the principal called me in and said you have to go.

Steve: How many cars did you have on the at the school in this time?

Ray: About 80.

Steve: Okay. So I can see how you can get the 40,000. So it's like $500 profit a car. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So it's a lot of hustle for a smaller margin. That makes sense to me. Okay. So then you go from flipping cars to what?

I've been trying

Ray: to do real estate miles in Hawaii.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: So the worst is trying. Right? So I tried the different things and I pay so many intuition coaching fee. It never worked out for me. I, you know, I just, you know, didn't know why.

Now I know it's distraction. Right? So you cannot you know, if you don't focus on one thing, you try to do two different things or many different things, it's not gonna work. So I paid all these situations, you know, virtual wholesaling, wholesaling, apartments, buying rent, BRRRR method. You know, I tried it all, but it never worked out.

Steve: So we tried all these different things, and it is of your opinion, it didn't work because of you, not because of the programs.

Ray: Not the program. Yeah. Every program works. You know, if you look at you know, even the the not so good coaches, they have successful students. Mhmm.

So the program works It's me not working because I got so distracted.

Steve: Well, that's a lot of ownership there. Yeah. So then so the reason why you went from cars to real estate because it was directly from cars to real estate? Yes. There's nothing else in between?

Ray: No. Okay.

Steve: So the reason why you went into real estate is because there's just too much work, doing cars.

Ray: Also the profit is very enticing. So I see all these guys, you know, they post their Lamborghini and they're like, I just made 30,000 on my house flip. I was like, I'm making, like, 1,000 on my flipping cars. I have to flip 30 cars to match one deal. Right.

So why not me doing that? Right?

Steve: Sure. Oh, that makes sense. So, you spent all this money in tuition. Did you at least close deals along the way or it was just I

Ray: closed one.

Steve: One. Okay.

Ray: Made $3 on that.

Steve: On $3? Yeah. So 200 k in courses for 3,000 in return. In return. Okay.

So what did you so right now you're doing land. Yeah. So then did you try a, b, c, d, e, and then eventually figure out, okay, land's for me.

Ray: So land is just a vehicle. I made a decision. I'll focus on one thing. So that kinda work out for me about four years ago, and that's really, now I have a lot of success after that.

Steve: Okay. So you you decided I need to focus on one thing and that one thing is going to be land? Yes. Okay. Yeah.

So once you decided land was gonna be your thing, how long was it till you got your first closed transaction?

Ray: It's very fast. Okay. It's just a decision. Mhmm. So it's a commitment and, I got my first deal.

I made, over 250,000 on that one deal. Wow.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So that was a good decision. Yes. Okay.

So how did you find that deal?

Ray: So I just do, Miller's. I joined this program again. You know, I paid 60,000 to pay this guy. I didn't really learn a lot. And, he teach people about terms.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: And it didn't make sense to me after I learned it because if you do terms on land, the default rate will be much higher. Yes. So I was like, is there a way that I can twist the system and make more money? I always like flipping. Right?

So I like to buy them and sell it for higher. Yeah. So in my group, they're all term investors. But they do have one common thing, they need properties. So I only mail to those land owners who own more than five properties.

So I will approach them. I'll say, I wanna buy all of your land. If you wanna release all your portfolio, give it to me and I'll pay cash.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: So I bought from this guy. He owned about 300 lots in the one subdivision.

Steve: Wow. Okay.

Ray: I said, can I buy them all? But I don't have the money unless buy 10 at a time.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: So I bought 10 at a time. I sold it directly to those, you know, term investor guys Mhmm. For about a 150% return on each deal. Mhmm. And, I sold the 10.

I thought it was gonna take for a long time, but that deal sold within four days. 10 deals.

Steve: So you were saying you're gonna buy this cash. So then did you buy this cash and then and then sell them on terms?

Ray: Yeah. So the 10 deals cost me about 11,000, and I sold them for 26,000.

Steve: Oh, so when you say $2.50, it was over the course of all the transactions. Yeah. You said well, how many lost? 30 or 10?

Ray: Ten ten at a time. But he has three three hundred of them.

Steve: So 310 at a time. Yeah. And so he just kept buying it, selling it, buying it, selling it. Yeah. And then I'm I'm guessing you bought 11, so about 1,000 a pop, 1,100 a pop, but you're getting as a down payment more than 1,100.

Yes. So you're profiting immediately on every deal Yeah. Plus cash flow.

Ray: Absolutely. And, but the the the thing is after I bought about a 150 loss from him, he stopped selling to me because he said, you know, there's no way I can sell it to you anymore because you sell this so fast.

Steve: So you realized it was not good terms.

Ray: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So then how did you maintain this momentum? Because that's like it sounds like, it's a very fanciful, like, story. Like, once you focus, you had this huge deal. Right?

Like, it's just repeatable and so on. So how did you maintain this?

Ray: Yeah. The question with this is not repeatable because not a lot of people has 300 lots. Mhmm. So I was like, how do I do that? So I do a one deal at a time.

It's very slow for,

Steve: at

Ray: least a year or or almost two years. And, and then it's a time to make another decision. So I went to the Tony Robbins events and we're drunk, ping around, happy, you know.

Steve: Is this the which one is this one? UPW. Okay.

Ray: Yeah. So what's

Steve: your power within?

Ray: Yeah. Okay. So I made a decision by then. I'm gonna move to the Mainland and do land full time. Mhmm.

So that's when everything start to shift again.

Steve: Okay. So where were you before when you were doing this? Hawaii. You're in a a smaller island in Hawaii?

Ray: Big Island. I'm in, Honolulu. So Bigger Island.

Steve: So would you move to Honolulu, or you're saying you're gonna go to The United States?

Ray: I'm going to the Mainland, which is Florida.

Steve: Yeah. So Yeah. Florida's the Mainland. Okay. Got it.

Yeah. Okay. So you did this all while living in Hawaii. Yeah. Was that a piece of land in Hawaii or the 300 lots in Hawaii?

Ray: The 300 lot is in Colorado. Colorado. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So then you go move to Mainland. You do unleash the power within. How how how does that apply here? Like, what was it about EPW that affected you?

Ray: Tony Robbins said it's the moment of decision that shape your destiny. Right? Mhmm. So I I really think about it. If I keep doing this, I have my I have my, you know, I have a plan b right here because I can still sell cars making good money.

But the thing is how long it's gonna be taking me to the next level.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: Because I'm doing cars full time. I cannot do this land thing. So focus is a distraction again. So I said, that's enough. I'm gonna move to Florida.

I'll cut the plan b. I'll do land full time, and then everything started different. Do you

Steve: have any doubts when you're doing that? When because that's Oh, yeah.

Ray: What kind of

Steve: doubts did you face?

Ray: Am I gonna make it? And, you know, is this will lower my income? Mhmm. And, why am I be able to do this? You know, all these, things going on in my mind.

Sure. Yeah. So then,

Steve: once you move to Florida, tell me about your next deal.

Ray: So actually, we moved that's a process. We've we went to California for about a month. Mhmm. And then during that a month period of time, I start to shift my method of living land. And I got my first deal.

I bought it for $6 and I sold it for 58,000. So that's when I know I made the right decision. Mhmm. And then after I came here, it just, deals are like that, you know.

Steve: So talk to me about how you found that $6,000 deal for fit and selling for 58.

Ray: So I send the offers to I ship from I used to do, like, this out of nowhere land Mhmm. To infill lots. You know, infill lots meaning, it's near the city. Then I send this offer out for 22,000. The land worth about 50.

So this guy called me back and, I renegotiate again. I'm a Chinese. Right? I never pay full price. Right?

So and then we negotiate from 22,000 to 6,000. Mhmm. And I just tell him your land has a lot of trees, you know, which is very common for land. Right? Mhmm.

And but he live off state, so he don't care about it for $6 and sold it within a week for 58,000.

Steve: Gotcha. Facebook Marketplace, MLS,

Ray: house? By realtors.

Steve: By realtors. Yeah. Gotcha. So then along this journey, what were some of your biggest victories from when you started till today?

Ray: I think it just I had a deal that I bought it for fifth 68,000. I sold it a couple days ago for 160,000. Mhmm. So that really blew my mind. Even surprised myself.

So, you know, I I know this system works. Mhmm. So I can do this virtually anywhere. Sure. And I can be anywhere too.

Right. So I don't have to be at home, you know. If I don't want who I can go to China for a while. Right? So

Steve: let's talk about that deal. So you bought it for 68, sold it for a 150, you said?

Ray: Yeah. 160.

Steve: 160. Yeah. How did you find that deal? How did you sell that deal?

Ray: I sent it to direct mail. It's a small part of, Texas called Galveston. Mhmm. So on the East Side. And, I send the mailer out and this caller a seller call me back and he wants for 90,000.

Sure. And, when I again, I went to the Google map and see that and I told the seller, I went there virtually, you know, I tried to sleep on the land and I couldn't fall asleep. And the seller said, why? And I said, it's right next to the highway. Right?

So I tried to make a joke with him, but, we dropped down from 95,000 to 68,000. Gotcha.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. But isn't there, like, it's a pretty big island. Yeah. But highway goes right through the middle of it.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. Let's see what what I was gonna ask you there. Dang it. Oh, going back to China.

You would go back to China still?

Ray: You know, once in a while.

Steve: So Are you a citizen of China?

Ray: Yes. So

Steve: you're not a US citizen?

Ray: No. I have a green card, though.

Steve: Green card. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just bring it up because, like, we just spent two weeks in Vietnam, you know, last month. Yeah.

And I I feel fine going to Vietnam. You know? Even though it's a communist country, like, it seems like they leave you alone. Yeah. But I'm absolutely terrified of going to China because

Ray: Right.

Steve: On any random moment, they can just determine that you're a spy for The US.

Ray: But you look like Chinese, so you're fine. I don't know.

Steve: I just feel like they could just, at a moment's whim, just like, you know what? That guy seems too American. He's probably a spy, and then you're in a camp.

Ray: Yeah. Probably getting watched, secretly.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm absolutely terrified. Yeah. Like, the people ask me, do you ever go wanna go back to town?

Like, no. No. Absolutely not. I'm just terrified. Yeah.

Their their their respect for freedom is a little bit different.

Ray: Yeah. Their

Steve: respect for freedom here.

Ray: We have a empire there right now. So Yeah.

Steve: Well, like, you kinda watch, you know, like, when COVID started. You know, like, they were locking people into their apartments and, was it they would, they would screw their door shut.

Ray: Yeah. Right? People died. The the the guy burned. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. They would screw your door shut so you could not leave your apartment. Yeah. So They treat freedom a little bit different than they do here. So I was like, I don't I have no desire, to go visit over there.

Okay. So right now, you're flipping nationwide. Yeah. Doing 7 figures a year? About.

Yeah. Okay. So what does your operation look like to do 7 figures wholesaling? Or not wholesaling, flipping land.

Ray: Yeah. I think maybe I should, start to hire, and I got advice for doing that because right now I only have one VA Mhmm. And that's about it. So I, because on the whole process, I don't need to do a lot of work. So for example, the first step is market selection.

That cost about thirty minutes.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: And the second step is how to make offers. My VA do that.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: And then the third step and fourth step is negotiation, take calls. I take that about three to four hours a day. Mhmm. And after I acquire the land, I just sell it by the realtors. So the realtor worry about this boat, and I don't even need to worry about it.

So

Steve: So you don't have a giant marketing arm Yeah. Or acquisitions arm or dispositions arm.

Ray: Yeah. Very lean. And, the thing to grow it, I think, is just to hire acquisition people and then, have him take the calls. I could increase the number of mailing in in mail.

Steve: Yeah. So then step one is market selection.

Ray: Yeah. So So then how do

Steve: you determine which market to go into?

Ray: So the first step is I try to avoid those major hot market. For example, right now we are in Phoenix. I will not do business here. Mhmm. And, I would do about thirty to two hours away from the major city.

Yeah. And they will see how much sold in the last three months. If it is number over 40, that could be a very good market for me. For example, I have, some land in Eloy, Arizona. Gotcha.

Not too far away from here. Right?

Steve: Yeah. It's about forty five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So pick a metro. Go out thirty minutes to two hours. And from there, see if there are 40 transactions.

Ray: At least 40.

Steve: Yeah. In the last four. Yeah. Month and the last year. Three months.

So 40 transaction in the last three months.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Do you care about the, the size of the land or the price of the sale, or is it just is this 40 transactions?

Ray: So I actually care about the price. Right now, I try not to do the smaller deals anymore. Mhmm. Because the smaller deals, I cannot hire the realtor to do it. I have to do it myself.

Steve: Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

Ray: So at least the land has to worth over $15,000 Mhmm. To about 300,000.

Steve: Will this just sell the land for 15,000? Yeah. What's the commission on those? Is it 6%?

Ray: 10% about that.

Steve: 10. Yeah. Okay. So they sell a piece of land for 15,000, 10%. So just 1,500 goes to the realtor.

Yeah. Okay. Alright. So it has to be at least 15,000 for it to be worth the realtor's time. Yes.

So because it was not worth the realtor's time, you're gonna do it. Yeah.

Ray: I mean

Steve: Because it was not worth it to you, we're not gonna buy anything less than 15,000.

Ray: Yes.

Steve: Makes total sense. Okay. So you identify the markets. How many markets are you in?

Ray: Market I'm in? How many markets are you in? About 45 right now. 45 markets? Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So then being in 45 markets, is there a particular data that you pull? I mean, you can't just mail to everyone with land. So, like, is there a demographic or avatar you're looking for in in marketing to them?

Ray: Absolutely. So the 40 we talk about so I would dive in into what sold in the last three months, and I will see what subdivision specifically sold. Mhmm. And then I would only mail to those subdivisions with about half of the price sold.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. So you sell you you advertise a half Mhmm. The previous old comp. Yeah.

Okay. How did you determine half?

Ray: Let's say in the subdivision a, price I

Steve: mean, how did you determine 50% was a number?

Ray: 50%? Oh, I just wanna offer normally, I offer about 40 to 55%. Mhmm. Depends on how hot the market is. If it is very close to the major city, I'll offer about 55%.

And then after the offer comes back, I'll renegotiate again.

Steve: Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Because for me, what I've heard and I am not a land expert, so just qualify that. What I've heard is that you wanna be offering between 10 to 30%.

Ray: Oh, I wish, you know, I I I wish they'd keep teaching that. Right? So I can get more use You look like the good guy. Right. Yeah.

So it's all about, you know, if you do 10% for, like, a a 30,000 deal,

Steve: you

Ray: know, nobody was gonna sell it for for you for that price. Not at least not at first.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So 10 is too low. Forget about it.

They're not even gonna return. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, what I've heard is, like, you send out you you well, I guess you're sending direct mail for them to call you back. Right.

So what I've what I've heard is you just send out contracts. Yeah. And you get you see back in the mail executed contracts.

Ray: Yes. That's what I do.

Steve: So you send out contracts.

Ray: Contract with the offer price.

Steve: Yeah. So you don't send out, like, call me. No. It's contracts, and they either execute it

Ray: Yep.

Steve: And mail it back to

Ray: you Right.

Steve: Or they call you with questions about your offer.

Ray: Absolutely. Or they curse on me. Or they

Steve: curse you. Yes. There's that too. Right. Okay.

So then your your your marketing is not based off any particular motivation or distress. No. It is based purely on the fact that there are sole comps to back up what market value is.

Ray: Absolutely. That's pretty smart. And then when they call me, they're already motivated because they wanna sell it for half of a price, and then I would double kill them, you know Mhmm. Negotiation. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Steve: So then you offer 50%. They execute the contract. And then what's the process? I mean, so there's really not much sales involved. There's a little bit of negotiation when they call you.

Yeah. But then, like, what is, when you send out blank not blank contract. But when you send out, the you're assigned a contract, what do you typically have for a close of escrow period?

Ray: About three weeks. And, after, let's say, we agree on price, I send it to the title company. Mhmm. They do the title research. And after about two or three weeks, I got the recorded deed.

Okay. Yeah.

Steve: At which point are you renegotiating?

Ray: Right after they call me.

Steve: Or after they call

Ray: you? Yeah.

Steve: What is the point of, when you guys are talking about renegotiating? What what are what are the reasons why you say, hey, like, our price needs to be modified?

Ray: Yeah. So, we look at, you know, a lot of different stuff. For example, Google map, JS map, and, we just look at anything I don't like. Right? So if it is close to highway, it's too noisy.

But all land has some type of problem. Of course. And, so maybe there is a lot of trees and, land girl has a weed and, neighbor throw trash on them and, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. There's all sorts of reason for land to to to not be desirable. Yep. Yeah. And then, when you close on these, what percentage of the lands you're buying, is going through a title company, and how much is it just recorded public data?

Ray: So how much I would do it myself?

Steve: Well, yeah. Are you recording it in public records, or you're actually going through title company to your title insurance for every single transaction?

Ray: Yes. That's pretty much what I'm trying to do. But some small deals, you cannot avoid it. Right? So for example, I just closed some small deals last week.

I bought it for 1,000, sold it for 19,000. And those ones, I just have to do them myself.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So you self not self insured. What would you call that? Self close.

Self close? Yeah. Okay. So you prefer to go through a title company? I prefer to go yeah.

Ray: That's a means a bigger deal. Right?

Steve: Well, it's a bigger deal, but there's, you know, those costs. Like, normally, when people are doing land less than, like, 15,000, they wanna avoid the title company. Yeah. You would prefer to go with the title company even if it's a small deal?

Ray: Small deal, no.

Steve: Small deal, no.

Ray: Yeah. So what how do I define small deal? If I have to buy under 5,000, I probably don't use a title company. Right.

Steve: Yeah. But over 5,000, you will get a title company.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So, yeah, when you're saying you're working three to four hours a day, it really is because all you're doing is just either talking to sellers about the offer or taking angry phone calls.

Ray: Yes. And, sometime I release my stress

Steve: on them too. So you're not as, you're not a good receiver. You're not you're not letting them, let all the stress out on you. You're you're giving them more stress.

Ray: Yes. I don't even know them. Why do I stress something in myself? Right?

Steve: Okay. Right. So, you're not really pulling any particular list. You're sending out contracts. I'm guessing is this like a, a Manila envelope?

Right? That's, like, eight and a half by 11 or or nine by 12, whatever you call it, the size of those things are. Or Yeah.

Ray: Just those envelope with a window. You know, two windows. Right?

Steve: Of the two windows. And the two windows, they can see that the cash amount no. On the contract.

Ray: On the second letter, they can see that. Just a very normal letter. So, you know, I should try something else and see what's the results.

Steve: Okay. Gotcha. So, let's see. Going back here. Yeah.

Between 50 and your first one, it's been a lot of coaching. So one thing you kinda mentioned earlier is, you know, we have to have a why. Yeah. Like, without a why, you feel like well, I guess, instead of saying it, but in your words, what do you think happens if you don't have a why and you're becoming an entrepreneur for yourself in real estate?

Ray: I guess the why is the motive and, it will drive you through the hardship. And, a lot of people try to do a lot of things at the same time because they try to see which business is easier to do, and then they will pick that. But the truth of the matter is all business is hard. Mhmm. And, no matter what you choose, there will be a period of time that you feel very dark.

There's no, like, no no no way out. Yeah. So you just have to stick with your why and and keep going.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. So So then how did you figure out your why?

Ray: I have two why's, actually. So the first one is my wife. And, so when I was homeless, we were dating. Right?

Steve: She dated you while you were homeless?

Ray: Yes. And then I was sleeping in the car and she came into the car and she wanna just sleep with me for the night. Right? I was like, you should go back to your dorm. And, she said, no.

No. I feel very warm here. Mhmm. So at that moment, I know she's a gold. Yes.

Not a gold digger. Yeah. Because there's nothing to take care. Right? Yeah.

Steve: So and, that's why, you know I mean, she wanna have your car.

Ray: Yeah. She wanna have my car. Yeah. Yeah. So she's my first reason.

And second reason is my mom. Mhmm. So my mom unfortunately passed away about three years ago. I still remember the day I went back to China. She had a stroke.

And the day I have to leave to The States to do this business, so this land thing. I was in the hospital hall back and forth six times. My mom was sleeping, and then I kiss her. I said goodbye. I left.

And I came back again. Just go back and forth six times. I still remember that hallway.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: And I promised myself by then, I have to make this work. Yeah. Yeah. That's my second why. So you

Steve: you promised yourself. You didn't promise who you promised yourself.

Ray: Yes. Got

Steve: it. Yeah. And then I'm gonna guess here, probably one child policy. Yeah. So you're the only child.

Absolutely. So you're the one you gotta carry this carry this legacy forward.

Ray: Yes. Gotcha. Yeah. I didn't know by then that was the last time to see her.

Steve: So Yeah.

Ray: Yeah. And then the COVID hit, you know, nobody could see her until she passed away. You know? She basically died alone.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. That was hard. Sure. So knowing that's your why, is there anything particularly you do to remind yourself or or anything along those lines to keep your wife front and center?

Ray: I think just keeping thinking about her or think about them. Right? So right now, I have three kids, and they are kind of my wife too. Mhmm. And, I just wanna keep going and try to, support the family and help as many people along the way.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. But they're probably really young, so they don't know about much of this. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So, see what other question I have about that before we go back to go to the audience. We have actually a bunch of questions, which is awesome.

So right right now, you're saying you're focused on land. So you're only doing land

Ray: right now.

Steve: Yeah. So no multifamily. No. No other things. No.

And it's really focused on who your target audience is. What tools are you using to pay attention to which sales are occurring? Right? Because you're talking about if you go into a new market Mhmm. You have your metrics.

Yeah. But how do you know if there's another market you need to start looking into or other markets that you have right now that you need to stop marketing to?

Ray: I just, go to Refin. My VA actually just got me in the data, constantly. I wanna see which market has more sold than for sale. I also wanna see, you know, which market is growing. I just had one done this morning.

I'd look at Texas, you know, whole I wanna see which county has, a lot more sold.

Steve: Gotcha.

Ray: Yeah. Very very simple. I don't pay a lot of softwares. There's no fancy software. Yeah.

Reference free, you know, and I use the list source. Yeah.

Steve: So your most expensive source or cost really, after direct mail is your VA.

Ray: Yes. I know. I don't pay much. You know? Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. So, let's go ahead then. We will head to the audience questions.

But right before we do that, let's take a very quick break.

Ray: Alright.

Steve: Wholesalers. Wholesalers. What if you can make an extra $50,000 a month, which is simple to do if you can close an extra two to three deals every single month? Right now, you might be walking out of houses without signed contracts, sellers are ghosting you, or even when you do get a signed contract, the seller wants to cancel before closing. And you're probably wondering why is this happening.

And it's because you're not following a sales process. And if you keep going the way you're going, you'll continue leaving two to three deals on the table every single month. After attending our live event, you'll quickly be equipped with all the tools to handle any objection thrown at you. People that attend our live events repeatedly tell us that they're closing an extra 50 to $70,000 instantly. Here, you'll learn how to ask better questions that engage the sellers, the skills to build real rapport, and the ability to pinpoint exactly where the appointment went wrong.

Come to my office in Phoenix, Arizona and spend two full days with me and my team where we discuss our entire sales process, learn how to overcome, I need to think about it, the price is too low, and any hidden third party decision makers. And if you attend this event, we're also including our disposition sales training, our perfect seller appointment checklist, and all of our scripts. Act now because our live events fill up quickly as we can only fit 20 people. If at the end of our event, you don't see how you can make an extra $50,000, I'll give you your money back. Go to celsiusruppers.com and sign up now.

Because if you don't, you're gonna keep leaving money on the table. FYI, we can only seat 20 people, and we've already sold a bunch of seats. So don't get left behind in our shifting industry. Okay. So I see a lot of quality questions here, in in audience.

But before I even jump into the questions, you know, I was kinda remarking. So as I'm looking at the three cameras that have in his office, like, when do we start putting phones up? Right? Because there's two live feeds here, and then Ray said these are his. Yes.

So we're live on his Instagram and live on his TikTok, which I think is absolutely awesome. You know? What compelled you to go, to be so, you know, intentional in in ringing your phone? Like, you're the first person to just put up tripods and stream in here. What what what, what compelled you to do that?

Ray: So I give I guess that's my hobby. Whenever I guess opportunity or at least it seems like opportunity, I'll grab as fast as I can. Mhmm. So, of course, you know, everyone knows you. You're the big hitter, so I try to grab you as much as possible.

Right? And, I guess that's my my style.

Steve: Yeah. You know? And I was kinda remarking with you before the show even started. Right? It's like, is there something about the Asian culture where we feel like totally, like, pro camera record everything?

You know? Because, like, you know, I got we got inspired a lot by Kong Lee. You know? He's my most famous friend. He's almost like he seems like he's Gary Vee famous.

We got Ryan Pineda. We're just talking about with couch flipping. Yeah. And, like, I know I absolutely hated it when I was a kid. My dad would break out the camera.

Yeah. Let's take a picture. We always had the camcorder. Every single event had the camcorder. I remember, like, I wanna say I was traumatized in, like, elementary school.

We received one of those awards and he showed up with the camcorder with the VHS and, like, everyone's like, who's whose dad is that? I was like, you guys know whose dad that is. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

So my dad was always the one that was recording the document. This and that, I hated it. Hated it. And now I'm doing the same exact thing.

Ray: Me too. I still argue with my wife about this picture thing. Right? So she is a photographer, and she want likes to take pictures. I try my best to avoid it, which will piss her off.

Yeah. And, I just don't like to be, you know, taking pictures. So But then here you are

Steve: Yeah. Same video. Yeah.

Ray: I know.

Steve: I got in trouble for that too. My wife said the same thing right before we started going active on social media. She's like, let's take a picture. I was like, why? Right.

And now she's like, you're so conscious about your image and this and that. And she's not wrong. It's just Yeah. It's just I wonder what this evolution what causes this evolution. Yeah.

So on YouTube, Ashish, Verma, Ray, how should I approach land flipping if I have a $100,000 to put in? I have sent 3,000 mailers. How many mailers, deals, etcetera, should I be should my numbers be targeting?

Ray: At least, try your best you can, but the minimum number is 3,000 letters a month. Mhmm. So if you ask me how much how many how many actual mail, there's only a one word answer, more. No. Mail more.

Right? So I talked to a a mutual friend of us, Will, and he mail about 160,000 a month. Right? Mhmm. So the more you get and the the keywords is consistency.

Mhmm. So it's not like just one time. Some people ask me, Ray, how many mailers I should mail out to get a deal? I wish I could answer that, you know. That will be a ATM machine.

I just put money in and I get money out. Right? Right. But you just have to be consistent. Mhmm.

If you're consistent, committed to do this, I guarantee you it will work. Okay.

Steve: Yeah. So how many pieces of mail are you sending out a month right now?

Ray: About 25,000. 25,000. Yeah.

Steve: And then let's just say there's a sole company of subdivision and you start targeting everyone in that subdivision. How many times and how often are you mailing that subdivision?

Ray: At least every other four months. I made a mistake to mail it too soon. So I mailed the county in Texas. I got a deal. I bought it for 20,000, sold it for 60, and I got my second deal for 25,000.

And it's under contract. I was super happy. Right? And, this kinda works. Let me mail it again for a higher price.

So I did exactly that. And the the strange thing is that second seller got my second letter for a higher price. Mhmm. And he said, Ray, you did this yourself. You told me you wanna buy it for higher.

I guess my land is appreciating. I'm not gonna sell it. So you cancel that. I lost $330,000. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Okay.

Steve: Yeah. So every four months you said?

Ray: At least three four months.

Steve: Yeah. So four months in between?

Ray: Yes. Okay.

Steve: Yeah. But how many times are you gonna mail that one cell or that one subdivision?

Ray: Until I don't think there's much deals I have or ever.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. Rob Sterbel on Instagram. Yeah. Running a parking lot isn't that expensive, but the insurance isn't cheap.

And so, Rasha, Nikka, how long it took to close? I'm guessing we're talking about your your, your big deal here, the 250,000. But it sound like it was pretty quick. Yeah. You got it from this guy, and, like, a week later, they're all sold.

Ray: Yeah. So my strategy is I tell the realtor all the time, list my property the cheapest in the entire market. Mhmm. Because I don't wanna let my land sit there for two years.

Steve: Yeah.

Ray: You know? So when I because I bought it super cheap, and then I sell it, try to be the cheapest. Mhmm. Yeah. So that that will fastest space.

So we're not trying

Steve: to maximize on the acquisition side. Yeah. We just want it sold. Yeah. And it's fascinating because this dichotomy or this mindset exists in wholesaling as well.

Right? Like, we gotta get this super deep. We gotta get the best deal possible when we buy it. Right. We don't care what we sell it for.

Just get it sold. Right. Right? It's just it's it's such an interesting dynamic. Yeah.

On YouTube says, you're amazing. Hustle game is something serious. Mike b says, love the studio setup. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate that.

And then Mike says, or Biswell says that your, your wife, it sounds like, is definitely a keeper. I strongly agree with that sentiment. Is direct mail your only marketing method for finding land is from three ten group?

Ray: Yes. Yeah. And especially when I first started, try to do one marketing channel. And the cold calling and testing doesn't really make sense to me. I don't wanna sit there and calling and the guy negative and just send you a wheel.

Right? So yeah.

Steve: Well, I mean, that's the that's the cool thing about land. And not to say you couldn't do it with with houses, but the cool thing with land is just mail contracts.

Ray: Yeah. There will be a time that it doesn't work anymore. Mhmm. You it used to be a time for houses works. You know, you send a a number, it works.

Mhmm. But right now, no.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So you really do make this simple.

Ray: Yeah. I try to be.

Steve: Yeah. Well, because if you look at all the complications, because we generally we insert all the complications. Yeah. Right? You send out offers, you get contracts.

Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. Do you have KPIs? Do you measure?

Or do you just you just send out mail and then whatever happens happens?

Ray: Yes. That's basically it. I try to keep it very simple. I guess that's my strength, also my awareness. Mhmm.

Because I could have get more deals if I manage those data. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. And then, Mike, do you appreciate your humor? Sometimes you release your stress on them.

IG deal being says he's they're loving this interview. So alright. Caleb on IG, because you are in 45 different markets, what does deal flow look like per month?

Ray: It depends, but the average profit right now is from, you know, slow slow down quite a bit. Mhmm. Right now is about 60 to 110 a month.

Steve: Thousand in revenue?

Ray: Yeah. 110,000. Yes. Okay.

Steve: But as far as number of transactions?

Ray: About six to 10 deals. Yeah. Last week, I closed five. Yesterday, I closed one. You know?

Just, something like that. Yeah.

Steve: So about six to 10 deals a month. Yeah. But you have felt something change in this market shift?

Ray: Absolutely.

Steve: Okay. So what was it like before the shift, and what's it like today? Oh my gosh.

Ray: I remember in September, I had the biggest month.

Steve: It's past September or it was September before?

Ray: September in 2022. Okay. Yeah. So I had profit 250,000 on that month. But right now, it's nothing close to that.

It's just, very slow and, the seller also think, you know, I'm in the hot market right now. Mhmm. So, you know, and the buyer think, you know, I the I'm gonna wait for a bit. Sure. So it's kinda awkward time, but you just have to be consistent to guide those deals.

Steve: So, you know, with us in Phoenix, right, like, we had this shift, and it seemed like overnight, we could probably have, like, the worst shift as far as what the buyers are willing to pay. Mhmm. And so, like, our underwriting guidelines changed, like, 25% overnight. Yeah. Right?

So, like, what we could before contract for 82 and sell for, like, 90% of market value, it was no big deal. Or 92% of market it was no big deal because the buyer was betting on appreciation. Yeah. Which worked until it stops working. Yeah.

Right? But then when we had the shift, sellers were still wanting 82, 85% of market value because they were getting it before. Yeah. So it's not unreasonable for them to ask for it. Yep.

But the buyers went from, like, 92% to, like, 60%. Right? Right. Also, really more like 25%. Yeah.

And so we had this, this massive swing in in what the buyer what the market's willing to pay. And so we had this, like, moment of, like, nothing happening. It was just running into a brick wall over and over and over again. Yeah. I have to imagine, we talk about land, what you could sell it for in the market shift was probably 25% or even more

Ray: Mhmm.

Steve: Because of for the end buyer situation. So how much did the underwriting change when you're trying to sell it, aftermarket?

Ray: So I tell people all the time, land investing could be the recession proof because the reason why the seller or the buyer have this, variable is because the market change. Mhmm. But the thing is, when the market change, my offer change as well because Right. I look at the last three month data and then make my decision on how much I offer. Mhmm.

So if the three month is slowing down the price dropping, my offer drops too.

Steve: Right.

Ray: So, you know, it's, pretty much recession proof. I just have to sell it for much cheaper than before. Right.

Steve: Yeah. So then are we basically just compressing your margins then is with the market shift? Or

Ray: not exactly. Because, my buying price is very low too.

Steve: Mhmm. Yeah. So So it's 50% before and it's 50% now? Or did it did your underwriting change at all? Your in house your underwriting now you're in house.

Yeah. Did raise underwriting change at all with the market shift?

Ray: Yeah. So I used to but the 50%, it's just, like a a gateway. You know, I when I enter the gate, I negotiate again. Mhmm. So there's no, like, a percentage I have to offer.

Mhmm. I can go as low as, you know, couple 100 if I want to. Right? So just super low. I try to do my best.

When I negotiate, my goal is to do the best I can.

Steve: Okay. So 50% is 50%, but that's just to get the conversation started.

Ray: Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve: Alright. So this is negotiations have began. Yes. And then where you land is very different than the 50%.

Ray: Yes. So the big mindset shift about land and houses is sometime if you do I have this, some friend wanna do this land and they used to be in the house space. They're afraid of dropping the land offer price for so low. But for land, you can because people don't have much emotion attached to their land. So they are willing to do much, much cheaper.

Right. So that's a mindset shift, for for land owners Mhmm. For for land investors.

Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. That makes total sense. Yeah.

Okay. So then a follow-up question from Caleb then on Instagram is, are some markets better than others?

Ray: Absolutely. So, I tell people when you do market selection, the first step is to find out if the state is is even good. If the state is not good, don't go to find a county inside. For example, if the pea people are moving out more than people moving in, I'm not going to go inside. I'll never invest in New York.

Right? Yeah. New York, New Jersey, Illinois, California, that's not my market.

Steve: Yeah.

Ray: I still have land in California. It's been on the market for two and a half years. So, first of all, pick a good state to start with. And then if the state has more people moving in than moving out, I would choose a county inside. Absolutely, there is a better market.

Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. And then, on YouTube, Char Michelle says, great interview. They love your positive positivity and focus.

Ants Clark on YouTube. Who is your favorite mentee?

Ray: Mentee? Mhmm. Oh, yeah. So whoever, just follow the instruction and do it. Mhmm.

Right? So I don't want a lot of, excuses. My style is the same when I teach people. Mhmm. It's always I just tell you the action steps.

I'm not gonna tell you to read an article and make your own decision. This is what you need to do. And do it and then get results. That's it. Right?

Yeah. So right here, is right now we're in the stage of age that information is overload. So we are not lacking of information. But why do we hire a mentor if you the information is all there out there? We are not hiring the mentor for the information.

We're hiring the mentor for a confirmation. Mhmm. So we need that confirmation. The mentor tell you this is the right thing to do, and you do that, you got results. Yeah.

And, that's why we we we do this mentor and mentee relationship.

Steve: I'm gonna I'm gonna guess because the other nickname is Boston Ant a thousand is that they're hoping that you were identify them. They were hoping you to name them directly. But I will say, like, for me, my favorite person to mentor, there's two things, and they're very closely related. First is they do what we tell them to do.

Ray: Absolutely.

Steve: Without question. Yeah. Right? Yeah. They do what we tell them to do.

And then when, after it works, because it does, is they're grateful for it. Right? Right. Like, those are my two favorite call. I've been doing this for coming up on sixteen years now.

I've mentored over, you know, I don't know if it's hundreds. I think it's hundreds of people. Mhmm. And every time is the one that does exactly what I say to do, and then they have success, and then they share their gratitude for it. Absolutely.

Like I said earlier, the problem is very rarely the system. The problem is normally the human being. And I'm in that category. I'm not putting myself above this. I've had mentors.

I've had coaches, and they'd be so frustrated with me. Yeah. Steve, we said go do a, b, and c. You did a variation of a and then a variation of b and then a variation of c. Yeah.

Right? So, but I'm with you. Right? My favorite people to mentor are those that do what we know what we know works.

Ray: Absolutely. So you can change the system, but after you have success,

Steve: and

Ray: then you can change it. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: We're talking about, see, who were we talking to, yesterday or the day before? Right? But I was using this example like Stephen Curry.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, his dad, Del Curry, was just this great spot up shooter. Right? If he doubled off Del Curry, he hit the three pointer. Right?

He had a clean, fast jump shot. Yeah. Stephen Curry mastered the jump shot. Now he can do all the other crazy things.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Right? He can do the spinning, fade away, whatever, but he mastered the basics. Yeah. And then he added his flavor to it. Yeah.

So often why add a personality and flare for mastering the basics.

Ray: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Start a walk first. Right?

Steve: Yeah. You gotta walk first. Yeah. So might be are you, dispositions? Is it, so you mentioned you like to go through realtors

Ray: Absolutely.

Steve: For dispositions. Yeah. So then his question after that is cash or seller financing when you sell?

Ray: Cash. All cash.

Steve: Always cash. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Why not sell or finance?

Because that seems to be what everyone else does.

Ray: Yeah. I you know, I wish people do that all the time. Right? So I can do this. Uh-huh.

So I want yeah.

Steve: You love it when they teach the other thing.

Ray: Absolutely. So you

Steve: can do your thing. Yes. Got it. Perfect. I love that.

Ray: Yeah. So, I just wanna you know, land flipping should be a cash call for you. Mhmm. If you wanna collect cash flow, go to apartments.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: So apartment is more reliable. People have to live inside. Mhmm. So they'll pay you for sure. But for land, they might be gone.

You know? They don't have any much pain. But for multifamily Right. Can buy them and for cash flow. But for land, it's a cash call.

Steve: So you're saying because with land, there's no emotional attachment. Yes. So in when times get tough, land is when the first things to get let go. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's why you don't like the creative or seller financing.

Ray: Absolutely.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Do you buy in financing? No.

Or seller financing? No. You don't buy in seller financing either?

Ray: No. No. I just pay them right away and then k. Cash has the power to the to negotiate. Right?

And you tell the seller, I I'll pay a down payment and I'll pay the rest, you know, in ten years. That's not as appealing as I'll pay all cash.

Steve: What is, I mean, how are you sourcing that cash right now?

Ray: I just do it myself.

Steve: Your own money?

Ray: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: You don't mean to private money? No. You really make this simple.

Ray: You're very simple. Right. Yeah.

Steve: I mean, have you ever had to buy a credit card?

Ray: No. I when I first started, I have to, find some other people to fund the deal. Right. But after I got enough, you know, cash, I just forget about them. Right?

So

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. Shar Michelle on YouTube wants to know which which mail service do you use?

Ray: I use a service called, offers to the letter, the number two Mhmm. Owners.com.

Steve: Offers to owners.com.

Ray: Yeah. And, it's about 60, cents each. You just, you know, you don't have to do a lot of stuff. You can send it out.

Steve: I'm guessing by the URL that the contract's already in the thing.

Ray: Yes.

Steve: So you're not even, like, sending the contracts?

Ray: No. I just send them, the the sheet, the Excel sheet with the offer price.

Steve: So you're just. Yeah. All you're doing is, like, I wanna mail to these people.

Ray: Yes.

Steve: Here's my offer amount.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Are you even, like, pulling the names? Or are you just, like, I want it mailed to this area?

Ray: Pull the name is my VA's job, so I don't even do that.

Steve: So Yeah. So you're telling a VA, I want to mail to this subdivision. Yeah. Get the names, get their mailing addresses. Right?

Not the home, not not the property address, but get their mailing address, I'm guessing. Yeah. You take that. You submit it to offers to owners.

Ray: So he does the offer price first, and then he submit to offers to owners.

Steve: So name, mailing address, offer amount. Yeah. You send it to this other service. Yeah. And then they send the contracts, inside the mail.

Right. And then all you get, again, is either executed contracts to your is it a box office or a PO box, or you actually send it to, like, an office?

Ray: My home. Your home.

Steve: You really make it super simple. Alright. So the contracts go to your house. Right. I mean, do you use, like, a call tracking service, or do you just call your cell phone?

Ray: I use CallRail.

Steve: So you have some services? Yes. Okay.

Ray: I

Steve: do pay. You do pay for a software. Okay. So CallRail. I I love this.

Alright? I mean, it is super simple. So Yeah. Name, mailing address, offer amount, goes out, execute contract, comes back to your home Yeah. Or they call you and you negotiate.

Ray: Or go to my email or fax number. So there are four ways they can get ahold of me.

Steve: Got it. Yeah. That's fantastic. So Yeah. Again, super, super simple.

IG, thanks for value. Really appreciate listening to this live stream. Do you pick specific realtors when selling the land?

Ray: Absolutely. So, all realtors will tell you I know the entire area. Send me all the deals, which is a lie. And, a lot of realtors don't know the entire area. Yeah.

So when I look for the realtors, I only see, let's say, my project or my subject properties in this area. I only only look for realtors who actually sold land nearby. Yeah. I never search, let's say, Phoenix land realtors. I never do that.

Steve: Yeah.

Ray: So they have to sell sold some land nearby.

Steve: You have a track record?

Ray: Yes. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. And then are you using Refin for that? Zillow? Refin. Refin.

And

Ray: yeah. Right. Sophisticated software. Right?

Steve: Yeah. Just use public publicly available information. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the fact, like, how much you've simplified it is absolutely incredible.

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Bringing this kind of revenue, is is phenomenal. So then, you know, looking right now from when you decided and committed, right, like, you moved to California and then Florida. I was like, alright. This is what I'm doing till today. How different does your business look?

Ray: You know, still myself, but, you know, just a process. Mhmm. I tried different things. So right now, it looks very simple and easy, but I tried multiple things and this actually works. Mhmm.

So, you know, I try to make it, very effortless Mhmm. For myself. Yeah. And, you know, that's What did you

Steve: try that didn't work? Like, what were some, like, biggest, like, mistakes?

Ray: I did, like, the direct mail with a no offer price. I got, like, you know, 400 calls out of, 4,000 mailers that waste a lot of time. Yeah. Yeah. So that didn't work out for me.

I didn't I don't like to take a lot of calls and have to make offer Mhmm. Right there. Yeah. Yeah. So offer price actually works better for me.

Steve: So it's better to just start negotiation before the phones even, before they even call.

Ray: Yes. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Simple enough. What freedom does, real estate afford you?

Ray: Oh, yeah. I can be anywhere, and, of course, I have to work a lot right now. I have, the coaching business. Mhmm. But, you know, without real estate, I have to do this car thing, which I've been doing long enough.

And, I'm tired of leaking oil, you know Yeah. Engine problem, you know, and all this stuff.

Steve: But you were making $30.40 k a month flipping cars. You could've you could've bought a Lamborghini and post it on Instagram Yep. Selling cars.

Ray: Yep. I I should have a die sooner too. Right? So there's a lot of work Yeah.

Steve: With cars. Gotcha.

Ray: And there's if you park on the street, people will tow it.

Steve: You know, there's a lot of different stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So a much less simple business

Ray: Yeah.

Steve: Compared to today. Yeah. Yeah. So you said that your wife is your why and your mom is your why. So, like, how are you, how does that show up?

Like, how do you demonstrate that, you know, to your significant other?

Ray: You know, my wife probably don't feel it, but I had just have to work work harder. Right? So, right now, I'm not, like, in the, I I'm not looking for more money. I just wanna do more and to help more. Mhmm.

I guess I work a lot, and then my wife sometimes feel like, you know, you leave me alone all the time. You know? Yeah. I guess, that's how I I should have done better for the Mhmm. For the family.

Steve: What is, do more and help more mean?

Ray: So just, right now I have this Instagram and TikTok going on. Mhmm. And, I try to show people how simple this process can be. And I have people reaching out and, it's a wonderful feeling to help another people Yeah. To earn some money.

So, they have don't have to be working for someone else. Yeah. Right?

Steve: What is your biggest struggle right now?

Ray: The struggle should be, I think, you know, all entrepreneur think they're the hero. Mhmm. Right? So they think I can do this. Nobody else can do this better than me.

This trap. Right? So I just need to find a guy who I trust enough to take calls for me. Right? So I have to believe that if he focus only on one negotiation, he can do a better job than me.

Mhmm. So that's could be my my struggle, to trust someone

Steve: Got it.

Ray: Enough. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. Well, I mean, it it it sounded like earlier in our interview that the qualification to be a negotiator was to be Asian. Yeah. So why don't you just go hire another guy that's just Asian? Right.

Right. Actually, I watched over the weekend, Steven He. Have you watched any of his videos? No. So he's another, he's another, YouTube guy.

Right? He's a comedian, Chinese, Chinese in Ireland. Right? If he's not if he's not in Ireland, then he's from Ireland. Right?

So it's kinda funny. He has a bit of an Irish accent. But he does this skit. Like, why don't like, why you should never kidnap Asian kids? Right?

So we're gonna do reaction video. I'm gonna have Amelia, my daughter, come in. We're gonna do a reaction video about it. But, basically, you know, the the kidnapper calls, like, you know and it's like a $20,000 ransom if you want your kid. Negotiate.

Right? He's like, 20,000. Like, what kind of discount can I get? Like, I never pay full price and just

Ray: I gotta negotiate.

Steve: Yeah. You gotta negotiate. Yeah. And by the end of the skit, like, the guy is like, I'll pay you 20,000 to take your kid to take your kid back.

Ray: Absolutely.

Steve: Yeah. But, you know, so, like, what are you doing about this? You you you've got it seems like, you know, you've gone to, unleashing the power within. Are you coaching right now with Tony Robbins or or not?

Ray: Not right now. I used to be their platinum group, which is the highest, mastermind. Yeah. And that's why I find the the the deal founders.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: And, but right now, I just stop a little bit and try to focus on this.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. So no mentors right now? No. Okay.

So you're in the platinum group, and then I think it was 75. Now it's, like, 83 k a year or something like that.

Ray: $80.80 80 k a year.

Steve: 80 k a year. Yeah. Plus you get to pay for all the travel. Absolutely. And the None of that's included.

Ray: Plus special events, you have to pay more.

Steve: Yeah. Oh, really?

Ray: Yeah. The financial, they have a once in a year, and you have to pay for that. Yeah.

Steve: I thought that was included. No. How much is the financial one?

Ray: $88 for

Steve: $8.

Ray: Two days, three days.

Steve: I mean, 80 k 8 k is kinda noise. Right? It's only 10% more. But talk to me about that program because, did you ever meet Jonathan Leahy in there?

Ray: I think I might have, but, I think

Steve: He was the REMAX guy. I think he's eXp now. But he was trying to convince me to join. Yeah. And I was like, buddy, like, 75 k plus travel?

Like, no. No. Right? So tell me about your experience in being in Tony Robbins, premier group.

Ray: The that kinda was my dream. Because when I was in China, I was listening to the translated version. You You know, this weird guy talking about Chinese and it's not even it would sound very good. Right?

Steve: Probably not the same energy and passion as No.

Ray: No. No. They were like, you know, you need to do this. But, when I first when I came to America, I was like, I need to do this. I remember my first event is in New York.

Me and my wife, we went there, we jump around and, walk on a fort fire. Yeah. And, we felt good. And, then I was like, what's more? You know?

I wanna join that platinum. And, so I went there and there was a heavily financial burden and then, you know

Steve: Yes. It is.

Ray: Yeah. But, it's it's great. And, inside that event, I made a decision. So that decision made me a lot of money. Right.

Steve: Yeah. But as far as, like, who you're able to connect with. Right? Like Yeah. People were people were telling me.

Right? And I verified. It's like, if you wanna be in the same room as Warren Buffett, that's what it takes. Did you ever were you ever in the same room as Warren Buffett? No.

No. Not yet. Okay. So, like, who are the people you got to connect with that made a difference, in your life?

Ray: I guess just the people you meet and they become, well, who you associate with.

Steve: Sure.

Ray: And, I always try to associate with people who actually doing better than me. Mhmm. But a lot of people say, oh, Ray, you just, you know, so money. Right? So, you know, everything you do is money or rented.

You just associate with people who are richer than you.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: But, you know, they have results. They have different mindset. Why not? Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: But you can't point anything there as, like, man, like, this made a big shift for me besides making the decision?

Ray: Guys, they find my deals. And and they made me a lot of money on that. So

Steve: Yeah. Well, there's that. For sure.

Ray: Yeah. Those people are has has money, and they have results. Yeah.

Steve: I mean, they pay 80 k a year plus travel.

Ray: Because they

Steve: don't go somewhere simple. Like, you don't just go to Los Angeles

Ray: No.

Steve: Or Florida. Like, it's

Ray: I went to, Costa Rica and do this crazy thing. Yeah.

Steve: So how do you stay motivated?

Ray: That's what I wanna, emphasize. So I remember a thing that I read from a book. He said, do not listen to yourself, but talk to yourself. So that was a big mindset shift for me because I used to listen to myself. And if you listen to yourself, it always says, why me?

Why am I I don't have a rich dad like the other people and, why I have to hustle this hard? Why this always happened to me? Why this is so hard? And and that's the results of you. Lessening to yourself.

Mhmm. You're not gonna motivate yourself that way. Yeah. And, but instead, I'm doing right now talking to myself. Meaning, every morning after I wake up, I'll just tell myself, awesome, man.

I can do this. I got this. And for this interview, I was like, you know, I I got this. Right? So instead of being afraid and crying on the corner, I just tell myself I can do this because someone else did it.

Why not me? Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's, keep me motivated.

Steve: So listening to your listening to yourself can potentially lead to, you know, why is this happening to me, kind of a victim deal. Right. And talking to yourself, you can program your brain Yeah. Into who you want it to be.

Ray: Yes. And then you program use your mind to a point that your mind actually start to talk to you talk to you in a positive way. Mhmm. So that's that's what you want.

Steve: Got it. Oh, I love it. Yeah. Is there anything, you wanna share from your self talk in the mornings that might be helpful.

Ray: I'm rich. I'm abundant. I can do this. I can. I will.

I I am. You know? Oh, there's some affirmation. Right? So yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I I think that's fantastic. Yeah. So let's see here. Mike b, YouTube.

Does Ray close in cash before listing MLS?

Ray: Yes. Yeah. Buy in cash. Yeah.

Steve: And then just to emphasize, use your own money. There's no hard money or private money.

Ray: No. Just have my own money. But, you know, we all start somewhere, and at first, you just have to do whatever you have to do.

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah. How do you measure success?

Ray: I think success is you try your best. And if you haven't tried your best, you're not successful, and you have to be grateful, like you said.

Steve: Mhmm. You

Ray: know, grateful for what you have. Right? So Yeah. Looking back from that guy playing video games for right now, and then I see there's a lot of room for human potential. Mhmm.

Right? So if I don't come to to The States, I'm not sure where I am right now. Mhmm. But, success is doing your best every single day. One day at a time, don't overthink it.

I think eventually people will think you're successful, but in your mind, you know, you tell yourself I got more room to go.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. What is your superpower?

Ray: I guess negotiation. So I'm not afraid of, talking people lowball people face to face. Mhmm. So I actually almost got hit by two guys because I love all of them. Physically?

Physically. Yes. Because I when I was doing cars, I have to do this. Right? Yeah.

So, with Lan, you know, even more no no afraid anymore because I I cannot see you. You cannot see me. Right. So So shameless. Shameless.

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So I wonder if that's a cultural thing because I I I am totally the same way.

Ray: Absolutely.

Steve: Right? Like, I I I was that realtor. Like, hey. I wanna spend an offer this price. Like, are you sure?

Like, this is what's gonna probably gonna happen. Like, fine. No. That's what I wanted. Okay.

I'll make it. And, like, I get chewed out.

Ray: Yeah. Right?

Steve: Yeah. Okay.

Ray: Absolutely. So the I just read a book when I was waiting. Uh-huh. And all the point you talk about is what I'm using. All that I find out is this I thought it's just, something I figure out, but, you know, that's actually a culture thing maybe.

So you Yeah. You figure out too.

Steve: Right? Well, in the in our in our book, Active Listing two point o, in our book, we talk about how to like, we we reverse engineered Yeah. Sales. Sales and negotiation.

Ray: That's awesome.

Steve: Yeah. What is your superpower? Superpower?

Ray: Mhmm. Negotiation.

Steve: Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. What is your biggest regret?

Ray: Regret is I should have not gone to college. Mhmm. So that's my absolutely huge regrets. I would

Steve: In China or in US? Both.

Ray: Both. Maybe in American is not a regret because that's a, steps don't have to step on it. And, without that, I cannot be here. Mhmm. But in China, you know, that's a purely waste of time.

Mhmm. I wish I could start with 18 and, you know, I should've been should have been super far away. Yeah.

Steve: I just wish I was there when the was it the dean found out it was you with those cards? I mean, that would be an an awesome sex scene. I think you probably should, like, with, you know, whenever you got some time, it's, like, recreate that scene.

Ray: Right. And the the the dean told me you have twenty one days to sell that 80 cars. Mhmm. So that was stressful.

Steve: Did you sell those 80 cars?

Ray: Do you want it?

Steve: Yes. See, you got it done. Right? Sometimes we need deadlines.

Ray: Absolutely.

Steve: So you think that I mean, if you didn't go to college in China, could you even have gotten here on a student visa? Yes. You could've.

Ray: Yeah. Because, after we go to high high school, we can apply for our university. Got it. Yeah. Okay.

Steve: How did you learn your greatest lesson?

Ray: I think it's a process. At first, I didn't have money, and then I just have to read. And, so a lot of people, at least, I used to think if I wanna be rich, I have to do the things to be rich. But you have to later on, I find out if you wanna get to a destination, you have to be there first. So what do I mean by that?

So everything we see right now has been created twice. Look at this table, this micro microphone. So it has been created once in the designer's mind. So you have to be there first. Mhmm.

And then you can be physically there. So I was remember I was in the college in The States. I used to be a cleaner for this big theater thing. So I earning about $8 an hour. So how can you be from $8 an hour to rich people?

You have to be mentally rich first. So I keep listening to those books. So one of the book contribute a lot of, you know, to me, to my life is called the science of getting rich. Mhmm. So it's a very skinny book.

I highly suggest everyone read it. Yeah. So I listen to that over and over again. Maybe for a period of half a year. Every single day, I I listened to it once.

So Wow. I actually, mentally there, and then it took a little bit time to Mhmm. Actually get physically there. I remember when I quit the job, I already making about 15,000 a month. Mhmm.

Yeah. For living cars.

Steve: Yeah. So before it can happen, in reality, has to happen inside your head.

Ray: Yes.

Steve: And so for you, it goes back to that positive self talk, positive programming. Yeah. And then it will, what's the word I'm looking for? Manufacturer's not the right word.

Ray: Subconscious.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Your subconscious will make it happen. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a great lesson. Which failure did you learn the most from?

Ray: Failure is probably that six years. And, the failure the reason for that failure is about distraction. So, I wish I couldn't have been distracted for so long. I just stay in one area and just do more and more. Right?

So all the rich people you see, the billionaires, they actually have fewer things to do, but they go super massive scale in that one thing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ray: So it's not about how wide you go. It's how deep you're you're going.

Steve: Yeah. That's that's a huge, huge lesson. And what I struggle with, to be honest Yeah. What book have you gifted more than any other?

Ray: Just that book. The Science of Getting Rich. And, that really helped me a lot.

Steve: Yeah. That's awesome. So I want you to think about a message you wanna leave all the listeners with. I'll close real quick. Guys, right now, we see a wind of opportunity in this market.

I'm excited to seize the moment. If you happen to have some capital, you'd be interested in investing, you don't know what to do with it, or if you have some killer deals, you need help to close on, you can partner with us. So if you want to do either one of those things, go to teamwithsteve.com, and let's do business together. And, again, guys, if you're watching this on YouTube, please subscribe right now. It helps us reach more people.

If you're listening on iTunes or Spotify, leave us a five star review. And we do have Jamil, the blue genie, coming next week. So we're gonna get update as to what he's got going on in his life. Love to get that update. So what are some last thoughts you'd like to leave the listeners with?

Ray: Jamil, is that a Buddha guy? Just kidding.

Steve: I'll okay. I I wouldn't say Buddha. Let's see. What is he? I think he's Christian.

Ray: Christian.

Steve: I think he's Christian.

Ray: Yeah. He, his video is funny.

Steve: Oh, his his his videos are hysterical. He actually was, actually did stand up comedy in Los Angeles for years.

Ray: Oh, really? Yeah.

Steve: If you actually look him up, I I I it's either I think it's funny or die. Yeah. You can look up, some of Jamil's videos on funny or die.

Ray: It's very funny. Yeah. But my message is this. Very simple. It's a story.

So, just imagine there's a huge truck. And on the truck, there's a lot of woods. And one day, all the woods caught on fire and, the fire is huge. And some people come here and try to put out the fire. So they got a cup of water and start to, you know, spell on the water a spell on the fire and, they see the fire is not even move.

It's going strong. So then the people say, okay. This cup of water actually don't work. And, I tried that, but it doesn't work. So they give up.

That's what happens to most of the people. So when you try a new thing, it's not the thing that don't work. It's you haven't been consistent enough. Or maybe the amount of action you haven't taken enough to make it happen. So that's a story that remind me all the time.

I just have to keep digging. And, I remember when when I decided to teach people my first seminar, guess how many people showed up? Zero? Zero. And I start to teach.

Nobody is there. I teach myself. So, you know, it's you just have the, you know, frackers, I guess.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Well, but it's great. It's a testament. Right?

And I I I love the way you you simplify everything. And you're absolutely right. You know, I haven't heard that analogy before, but it's it's spot on. Right? Like, I'm gonna try direct mail this month.

Absolutely. And then I'm gonna try cold calling next month. Yeah. I'm gonna text them off after that. Yeah.

And then I'm gonna do PPC, and I'm gonna go back to direct mail.

Ray: Right.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. But just do one thing. Go, go deep with that. Okay.

So if someone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way for them to reach you? So I

Ray: have a Instagram. It's called virtual flip land. Mhmm. One word, virtual flip land, and, I'll be there.

Steve: Alright. Perfect. Thank you so much. It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you guys for watching.

See you guys all tomorrow for PTV.