Luke Winter: Most people have their p and l. Most people have their balance sheet. Almost nobody has a cash flow forecast. Most people don't even know what it is. Honestly, no most people don't.
And it's okay. Understand where your gap is. Now go and improve it. Go fix it. I don't bring these things up to bash people, but understand it's very important, especially in a capital intensive business, to figure out where is your money going and where is it coming in?
Or the other outcome, which is bad, is you just run out of cash. And I think a lot of people new people in the industry, they get overextended on projects that are capital intensive.
Steve Trang: Mhmm. If If
Luke: you're always moving from a strong cash position Mhmm. You're not gonna get caught.
Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Disruptors. Today, we have Luke Winter with Hello Pro, and Luke flew in from Minneapolis, Minnesota to talk about how he went from a w two job to buying 200 houses a year to mastering just one marketing channel. Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years.
If you'll take consistent action, you will become one. And, guys, we're, again, trying to create millionaires. The best way to help us accomplish our mission is to share our message. So please share this episode, share this podcast with your friends, with your colleagues. You ready?
Let's do it. Alright. So first question is, what was your life like right before you got into real estate?
Luke: So before I got into real estate, I I was working probably a decade deep into, oil and gas. And I'm a mechanical engineer by degree
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And, worked in a petrochemical facility, worked in the one of the most profitable oil refineries, in North America Okay. And, worked worked, implementing technology, managing teams of engineers, doing business management, and and really got a deep education in, corporate structures, management processes, managing P and Ls, kind of the financial end of, of businesses Okay. Which I feel like is unique for an engineer. Yes. And so, it was it was a great great career, great jump out of college.
I came out of college in the middle of the recession. And so I was just super fortunate to have a job and and, ended up, sinking my teeth pretty deep into a career, in in oil and gas and in engineering.
Steve: Is that o one in recession, or are we talking about o eight recession?
Luke: I know the gray hair doesn't doesn't, give good calibration, but that was o eight, o nine era. Okay. So because
Steve: that's I mean, I go back a little bit further. So because that's when I got in. It was it was, you know, I graduated college right after the whole .com plus and everything else. Okay. So you get into that.
Generally speaking, when I hear people talk about oil and gas, it's fairly lucrative. The only thing about it is crazy hours. So why did you leave that industry?
Luke: Yeah. It it was, I I don't know if lucrative is the term I would put on it. Mhmm. Golden handcuffs is probably, another way to put it. Yeah.
Another way to put it. Yeah. It it was a very stable career path. But for me, I wanted stories. I wanted, trials and tribulations.
Mhmm. I wanted to experience all that life had to offer. The ups, the the downs, I wanted to go to my grave with some war stories.
Steve: You wanted the downs? I just want the ups.
Luke: That's where you learn the most. That's That's where you learn the most. Know.
Steve: But if I can avoid it and just get the outs, I'd be good with that too.
Luke: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, from from my perspective, I looked at it like, I don't know if I wanna be doing this for twenty more years. Mhmm.
Speaker 2: And I
Luke: started to boil that down to I don't know if I wanna be doing this for two more years. I don't know if I wanna be doing this for two more weeks. Mhmm. And it got to the point where, we're pretty stable financially. My wife was working, and I was like, I I think I I've gotta pull the plug.
I gotta clear my head, and I I need to, kinda reset what I want out of a career path. And, so I left cold turkey. I didn't have anything lined up. It was a little bit of a a scary moment career wise, identity wise. There were really two different camps of people in that, corporate space.
There was one camp that was you'll figure it out. Yeah. It'll be okay. Mhmm. And there was another camp that was cool.
Good for you. Good for you for taking the leap.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: Better to do it now, than when you're like me, a couple years away from retirement.
Steve: Yeah. For sure.
Luke: And so, that camp gave me a lot of encouragement. Mhmm. And it it was good for the soul to kinda just reset.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. And I remember that specifically as well. I remember when I quit Intel, that was kind of the same message. It's like, good thing you did it before you get all these responsibilities.
Right? You're young. You're single. I mean, you were married. But, like, for myself, when I was young and single, they're like, yeah.
Go out there. Go make a mess. And you can always come back. Right?
Luke: It doesn't get any easier Yeah. The longer you wait.
Steve: No. It does not. So okay. So, you take the plunge. Now you go straight to real estate at this point?
Luke: There was, a solid month of kind of figuring it out.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And, it it was difficult to figure out, well, where do I put my energy. And funny enough, I was on a a wholesaler's distribution list.
Steve: Okay.
Luke: And, I've been doing some real estate on the side. Right? Had some money to invest, did some wholesale deals, some flips, bought a small apartment building. So I was, like, familiar with the scene, but not in a full scale sense, of some of the scale that guys have now with big huge brands, massive teams. And so I I was looking for deals.
Got an email in my inbox from a a wholesaler. We need help with operations. Here's the things that we need help with. We need help with KPIs. We need help with dashboards.
We need help with SOPs and streamlining a lot of our processes. And I kinda thought to myself, I was like, wow. This is kinda too soon. I just left. I do I really wanna be jumping into another opportunity like this?
Like, what would that look like? And, but I knew I could do all of those things and and really make
Steve: a big impact on a business. Mhmm.
Luke: I can't not talk to them. What what else am I doing? You know?
Steve: And that was you being on their buyers list?
Luke: Correct. Yes. So golden nugget number one. If you're looking to recruit people, send your job postings out to your buyers list.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: That's a great point because I've been saying this over and over again. I wanna say the last few weeks to multiple clients is like, you're hiring. Why would you not reach out to people that you already do business with or
Speaker: you already like? So Absolutely.
Steve: That's huge. Okay. So you get this email, speaks to your your soul.
Luke: Yeah. Then what? So it took a while to, kinda work through their interview process and and really come up with an agreement that that made sense for for both of us. I knew I wasn't just looking for, like, another corporate Monday through Friday, kinda kickback type role. Not not not that oil and gas was, like, kickback at all.
But I knew I wanted something that was fast paced, had had some significant upside. I knew I wanted to be a business owner, and so it took some time to to understand the business, where the opportunities were
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: How I could really make an impact there, and then also what was in it for me. So beyond just, earning income, I earned into equity position in the business, as we hit certain milestones along the way. Mhmm. So as the business grew, like, we really put our foot on the gas and scaled that up significantly.
Steve: So I wanna say, a, like, hats off to you for being bold. You asked for equity right off the bat?
Luke: Yeah. It was a nonnegotiable. That's awesome.
Steve: Because it takes boldness. Right? Like, if I were to interview somebody, like, I would appreciate their boldness, but I'd also be, like, flabbergasted. Like, really? Like, you haven't even proven yourself yet.
You're asking for equity. So that's big. Right? So everyone is listening. You know?
Like, if you're not an owner today, there's nothing that says you can't, right off the bat, ask for that. So let's talk let's let's explore that a little bit. Was that the first job interview? Like, hey. Here's where I'm at.
I'm not working at a company that I don't have an opportunity to earn into equity.
Luke: That was a front runner option to me Mhmm. Versus starting my own company.
Steve: Right. And I Those are the two options. Like, those are the two tracks right now on the table. I'm I'm I'm I can go either way. Correct.
Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a powerful lever.
Luke: Yes.
Steve: Right? Versus, like, well, I'm work I got this other job offer that's not offering me equity. Correct. Correct.
Luke: Yeah. And I I knew the value that I could provide to the business. And and so I I yeah. I think for people that are listening, understand if you're adding significant value, you can you can ask for equity. You can ask for options.
You can ask for a package. Mhmm. Whatever makes the most sense for you that's commensurate with what you're adding to the business. Right. And I think I think it was also a bet on myself too.
Yeah. And and that made me realize that my skill set is quite valuable. Mhmm. Everyone has a a unique skill set that they bring to the table. There's a lot of small businesses out there that they need that help.
They need you. And so don't be bashful about adding a ton of value and and asking for some back in exchange. So
Steve: earn equity is, like, is it makes total sense, like, if you've been in business for a while. But not everyone is familiar with it. Normally, it's like, hey. You wanna do this. I wanna do this.
Let's just partner. It'll be fifty fifty partners. Can you elaborate and explain what it means to earn in equity?
Luke: Sure. Sure. So, everybody's gonna wanna have a little bit different arrangement with their entities. You know, real estate investors are gonna have assets here and properties over there and cash here and deals over here, and marketing is done this way, and we wholesale out of this entity. But, so so we just kinda got a handle.
I'm like, where can I contribute and where can I put some put some energy behind? And so I can't remember the specific milestones, to be honest, but, it was it was pretty clear that the business had to make a significant leap forward, in order to realize that that equity. Yeah. And it there would be enough time that goes on. If we didn't hit those milestones, I probably wouldn't even have a job anymore.
Alright. And so we go, okay. Well, that's a pretty safe bet. Either we're gonna hit this great milestone where everyone's high fiving Mhmm. We earn into equity, or we're kinda back to where we're at, and we start over again.
Speaker: Yeah.
Luke: And so I think I think from, the other business partners that I had, their their perspective, you know, I don't wanna put words in their mouth was it probably looked like a win win Mhmm. Or a limited downside. Right.
Steve: Either performs or he doesn't. Either way, he either has earned equity through performance or he's out because he didn't perform.
Luke: Correct. Yeah.
Steve: Right. So the downside is very little.
Luke: Correct.
Steve: The only downside is wasted time.
Luke: That's true.
Steve: More or less. Yep. Okay.
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: So, how long were they in the game before you, connected with them?
Luke: I think it was three ish years. And so they had a they had a couple employees, a brand, some deal flow, different tone, a bunch of different marketing channels.
Steve: Okay. So then what were the first things you did? Because you're saying you got a valuable skill set. Right? So for everyone else that's listening, you got so much skill set.
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Luke: Yeah. So so understanding where the constraints in the business are
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: Most most businesses like that are cash constrained. Mhmm. Second, they don't understand if you do have cash, where to go spend it. Mhmm. And so understanding your KPIs, I'm a dashboard nerd.
Like, I live in Power BI. Mhmm. I think making database decisions to either validate or to change your assumptions is incredibly important. Right. And so that was a skill set that I brought in from from my days at the oil refinery.
We were going gangbusters building all sorts of dashboards to monitor performance of equipment, to, doing calculations for us in the background. So here's here's the old adage, and this is applicable really to a lot of a lot of industries. I would have team members. I'd go, well, what are your KPIs? Like, for example, what's your mean time between failure for this equipment type or this manufacturer of an equipment type?
I go, okay. Let me go crunch the numbers. They'd come back three days later. I go, here you go. I go, okay.
That's not very good.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: That seems subpar. Mhmm. Right? And I go, yeah. I go, what are you gonna do about it?
And I go, I don't know. I just spent all my time figuring out the number. Mhmm. And you go, okay. Well, what if we just automate developing the number and we spend those three days on actually implementing solutions?
Steve: Right.
Luke: And so you have to try as best you can to automate all the metrics that you care about or might need to care about. That's true in real estate too. If you're hand crunching all of your numbers every month, and and you're operating at scale, it's gonna be difficult to actually have the time to go make the changes you need to make. So automate that as much as you can and have that at your fingertips at all times, like on TVs, like a dedicated monitor in front of you all the time. If it's hand calculating your ROI by month, by marketing channel, by sales rep, it's gonna be difficult.
Yeah. You're just gonna be behind. It's gonna take you longer to implement those solutions.
Steve: Okay.
Luke: So that that was a big big component of it. It's just taking a lot of those, processes and things that I thought were obvious
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: To a small business. And, look, a lot of small businesses, they're just getting off the ground. Right? They're just getting revenue, getting a few things dialed in, figuring their way out, so I'm not faulting it whatsoever.
Steve: Yeah. Well, it's for a lot of us, you know, in in wholesaling for sure is we don't know what it's supposed to be like. We only know what we hated when we worked the corporate world.
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: Right? Yes. So there's, like, this part of, like, I don't know what I need to do, but I also know what I don't like, I don't want that. And so, like, it's tough when you're trying to execute and implement it because you're resistant to it. And you think everyone that works for you thinks like you,
Speaker: and you think they're not gonna want that that kind of structure.
Steve: So it makes total sense when you said, like, the value you brought was the corporate experience because what we see, you know, we're, we're in one mastermind together, and I'm in multiple masterminds. Like, you look over and over again, pop wholesalers in the country run their business like a business.
Luke: Absolutely.
Steve: They've got dashboards. They've got KPIs. They've got cash flow projections. They've got, cash conversion cycle. Right?
Every metric that is vital to the business is automated. On the screen, everybody can see it.
Luke: Yes. They're not spending weeks and weeks digging up to all of these metrics. Mhmm. Every month, they they go say, what do we go do next? It's at their it's at their fingertips all the time.
Yeah. And it's incredibly important. It's also difficult. I'm not gonna run around and say, like, well, just go do it. It's easy.
Yeah. It's it's difficult to do it and to understand the data right. Because it's one thing to have the number, and it's another thing to understand what the number is telling you.
Steve: Yeah. So I know for myself, there's a lot of numbers we track, which is, like, we get everyone's ask ask everyone's every once in a while, why are we tracking these numbers? Like, day to day basis, we don't care about these numbers. But when this number is off, now we care about these particular numbers. Right?
So we got one spreadsheet for the main numbers and then other spreadsheets for all the other numbers we don't care about until something's broken.
Luke: Yes.
Steve: Then we care about those numbers. Yep. So talk to me about how the numbers tell a story. What does that mean?
Luke: Yeah. So, to your point, you should have, a a dashboard that essentially behaves like, your car. So you got a speedometer that basically says, this is what we're doing speed wise. Okay. Good, bad.
Okay. You're gonna want a red light that goes off if there's something that's really wrong. Like, your oil is low. Mhmm. Okay.
My check engine light's gonna come on when that happens. Yeah. You're a Tesla guy. Right? So you probably don't have that problem.
But I
Steve: don't have that problem. But I did have, like, you know, I'm driving home from, doctor's appointment with my daughter, and, I get a notification. It's like, your pressure's low. I was like, that's weird. Right?
It's, like, it's eighteen. I was like, that's odd. And then it was fifteen and twelve. By the time I pulled into my driveway, it was one.
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: But it was pretty obnoxious. Couldn't not see that signal that, hey. There's a problem with your tire.
Luke: And that's the perfect example. You're gonna wanna know, can I make it home? Yeah. And if you're looking at a KPI or your cash flow forecast, you're gonna wanna know how far can I make it? Like, that's really important.
The runway. Yes. Am I gonna have to pull over and stop Mhmm. In four weeks, or am I good to go drive another 60 miles? Mhmm.
In your case, it probably wasn't 60 miles. Right? But you could see that. Yeah. And that's exactly what a good dashboard or set of KPIs should be delivering to your business.
Mhmm. You go, good or bad? Am I gonna make it home or am I not? Am I gonna make it a 100 miles or am I not? And you need the bells and whistles to alert you to the indications of, okay.
I'm gonna be way off track here.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: If not, okay, then everything's good. And what are those three, four, five things, probably max, that you're looking at on a daily basis? Mhmm. And for most guys, it's lead flow, deal flow, revenue, that type of stuff.
Steve: So, generally speaking because I know, like, you you've done this for yourself, but you've also consulted a lot of other businesses. What are, like, the KPIs that must be on a dashboard on a daily basis?
Luke: Okay. So daily, you need
Steve: to look at your lead flow. So how
Luke: many new leads do you have?
Steve: How
Luke: many new deals do you have? Ideally, probably on a weekly basis. If you're operating at scale, probably a weekly basis, you're looking at revenue. Mhmm. Projected I like projected revenue and actual revenue, so that you can, again, calibrate.
Am I assuming that I'm gonna get revenue here and it didn't happen, or am I under projecting and I'm over delivering when things actually close? That's your kinda quick calibration. But you need to know when you're putting stuff into your pipeline monetarily, what is that gonna deliver for my business? Mhmm. If you're waiting until closing, you're behind the times.
You're it's it's a basically, a lagging indicator. Yeah. So that's important. And then I would maybe maybe consider breaking it down by by role. So, like, for a sales team, how many appointments are you doing in that day or for that week?
Right? Everyone's operating a different scale. So if you got a whole bunch of people, then you're gonna wanna look at it on a more granular basis. Right. But, you know, if you're running the appointments, you don't you don't need the dashboard to tell you appointments.
You you know that.
Steve: Right. So you came in to help execute this first part. What else were you tasked with doing as as, you know, talking about earning equity?
Luke: Yeah. So so the biggest thing was grow the business.
Steve: Okay.
Luke: Grow it. And I've got a fair amount of experience leading teams Mhmm. Recruiting, interviewing, onboarding.
Steve: Prior? You had all the Correct. As an engineer Yeah. And oil company. Correct.
You had all this experience plus the financials. At a, like, a big company, how did you get all this experience at a big company?
Luke: They threw us into the middle of everything, which is amazing. It's an amazing experience. I was Yeah. I I I moved locations within the company. So I was in the Chicago area for a little while, spent about four years there, and then moved to Minneapolis.
When I moved to Minneapolis, I think it was, like, '25 or '26, and they handed me a $100,000,000 project portfolio, like, day one. Okay. Like, welcome. We heard you're like, good. Here's your project portfolio.
Meet with these people to talk about it. Mhmm. But it's already going. These people are trusting me with a $100,000,000. Are you kidding me?
Yeah. Wow. And I think it it is an example of, trust the training. Mhmm. They knew they did a good job educating us on economics, economic decision making.
It it so the company was a subsidiary of Koch Industries, k o c h, Koch Brothers. Mhmm. And, if you look into them at all, they invest a lot into teaching their people market based management. And from new employee orientation all the way through management training, if you're gonna interview somebody, you need to have specific, training in order to do that. It goes deep into the methodology of here's how we interview, why we do it this way.
And and so from my side, I didn't really realize it at the time. I thought I was just doing my job, but, like, these are skill sets that are really valuable for the rest of my life in business.
Steve: 100%. Okay. So you had to grow the business. What were some of the early challenges that you experienced in growing the business? All of them.
Luke: I mean, we had all sorts of challenge. People problems, money problems, projects piling up, marketing channels that didn't work right.
Steve: What was the challenge that you lost a lot of sleep over?
Luke: I I'm a relatively calm, even keeled person. For me, my biggest fear was I missed something. I did something wrong that my plan wasn't gonna work right. Mhmm.
Steve: You
Luke: know, you're may you're making continual bets. I shouldn't flip this. I should wholesale this. Wholesale this, not flip it. I should wholesale it versus flip it.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: Those are all things that were daily decisions for me. Yeah. Here's our plan. Here's how many people we need. Here's how we're gonna step up.
A good business strategy overall. Right? And so my biggest fear is, like, is this gonna work? Is this going to be successful? It it wasn't that we'd run out of money tomorrow.
It wasn't that we're gonna lose a pile of money on any one particular project. But big picture, is this gonna be a success?
Steve: Did you pick the right strategy?
Luke: Correct. Okay. People wise, money wise, how are funding projects, our scoping decisions?
Speaker: Who was helping you learn or
Steve: who's helping you figure out how to make the right decisions?
Luke: Yeah. So there were there were two partners, in in the business, and, they had a fair amount of real estate investing experience. Mhmm. Not quite at the scale that we had eventually get to. We're all kind of learning together at scale.
Speaker 3: Mhmm.
Luke: But the general nuts and bolts of it, you know, they they provided some of that. Yeah. And then, honestly, we we spend a lot of time in masterminds and communities to to keep a pulse on latest trends.
Steve: Yeah. So was there any particular so you were worried. You're also detail oriented. That's why you worry. Were there any catastrophic decisions you made that you're like, wow.
That was a really dumb choice or that was a really bad strategy.
Luke: I think, thankfully, no.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: So from the refining space, we were taught to really consider the significant downside. Mhmm. True catastrophic risk in oil refining is
Steve: stuff goes boom and you kill people.
Luke: Like, you Yeah. We our facility had to send flyers out to tens tens of thousands of people in the community because we had enough stuff to go boom to impact their houses. And so you really have to take great care of the significant downside and really understand when you're making a bet that has catastrophic risk
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And essentially avoid those at all costs. Yeah. In that space, it's unacceptable to not send people home the way that they showed up.
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: And I would consider, real estate investing to be a little less grave. But I would say equally important, understand your significant downside risks.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: So never lose a boatload of money on a flip side. Yeah. Never overextend your leverage. Never overextend on a marketing channel. Mhmm.
It's just unacceptable because it's a catastrophic risk for your financial means and your business.
Steve: Well, let's talk about that. We had, Paul Sparks and I, we were partners in the Whale Club. And one of the things that we said that was never acceptable, which we learned from an analytical guy, which I think I I a lot of similarities between you and and our mentor, Dan. We never make decisions where the outcome could be game over. Right?
We're like, alright. Go back to square one. No matter what decision you make, if there's a decision that could lead us to back to square one, we do not go this direction. So then for you, what were some things? Because, like, obviously, you know, protecting against the downside, that's catastrophic errors.
Like, what are some of the catastrophic errors that you were concerned about that you still see people do all the time in our space?
Luke: Taking on too many flood projects. Mhmm. And and I'll I'll go deeper why why that can be challenging. Mhmm. So, one of the things that I I'm a big advocate for that I think almost everybody is missing is a good cash flow forecast.
Most people have their p and l. Most people have their balance sheet. Almost nobody has a cash flow forecast. Mhmm. Most people don't even know what it is.
Honestly, no most people don't.
Steve: Right. No. You're right. You're right. I'm I'm in the same rooms.
Luke: And it's okay. Like, understand where your gap is. Now go and improve it. Go fix it. Yeah.
Go fix it. And I don't bring these things up to to to bash people, but understand it's very important, especially in a capital intensive business, to figure out where is your money going and where is it coming in. So there's two avenues from having, either a good or bad cash flow forecast. One avenue is is you actually know what you're doing business wise, and you're you're not measuring your cash flow forecast and you're sub investing. You're you're under efficient in your investing.
So you get a whole big wave of cash, projects sell off, and you go, oh, wow. What do I do with this? You didn't have a plan for it. You didn't have more projects to backfill it. You don't have new marketing channels lined up.
You don't have more people backed up to handle the new leads. Or the other outcome, which is bad, is you just run out of money. You run out of cash. And I think a lot of people new people in the industry, they get overextended on projects that are capital intensive. Mhmm.
You can jump into why maybe bad underwriting, maybe they don't understand rehab costs, at ARV, that type of stuff. But, if you're if you're always moving from a strong cash position
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: You're not gonna get caught.
Steve: Yeah. How can someone get good at cash flow forecasting?
Luke: If you're not doing it now and you don't know what it is, probably outsource it. Mhmm. So find somebody who know one knows what it is and knows how to do it. But in general, you need to be looking at cash in and cash out probably on a monthly basis to start. You can get more granular from there, but that's not necessarily profit.
It's just money that you have tied into projects. Mhmm. Tied into different things. Yeah. So and that's deposits in, deposits out, and just update it on a re reoccurring basis.
So you're gonna need to understand what deals are in your pipeline, how much money you're gonna have to put into them, and when does that cash need to go in because it's not always all at once.
Steve: Right.
Luke: And that's another potential pitfall too of of getting over leveraged on flip projects is you think you have all of the cash and you have a scope change, $25,000 more, and you know, where is that coming from? My lender's already maxed out. My cash is maxed out, and I've got a project that's disassembled that needs to get put back together. Mhmm. And so you need to understand, when is that money going in?
It's not always all upfront.
Steve: Yeah. This is like we talk about it multiple times throughout the show, in other episodes, which is, like, the greatest threat is, or businesses that go out of business. It's not because of, lack of opportunity. It's not because of starvation, from indigestion, taking on too much. And one thing that I said way too many times in my career, and I've heard many friends say over
Speaker: and over again, because I know
Steve: I'm making a lot of money. Where is it? And then you find out. I got 45,000 out in earnest money alone. Yeah.
Right?
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: That's just earnest money. And then it's like, oh, like, I'm into this much on this rehab, into this much on that rehab. And they're all gonna profit, but you don't have that money in your in your bank. I remember, I can't remember where I heard this story, but it was someone that was successful, and the bank called their loan due. And he's like, I've been banking with you guys forever.
I've always paid on time. I'm more profitable now than I've ever been before. Why are you calling my loan? And they said, we're looking at your financials, and you're gonna be out of cash in, like, three months. And we don't wanna be the one that you don't pay.
And he was, again, he was like, I am I'm not cash flowing. I'm making more money than I've ever made. But he took his eye off the ball as cash reserves or as cash balances were getting depleted.
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: And that's kinda what you're talking about here.
Luke: Absolutely. Absolutely. And here's a here's a phrase I think about often too. Most real estate guys are aggressive entrepreneurs. They wanna capture as much margin everywhere as possible.
Dominate. Yes. Yes. But Here's a phrase I think about often. Nobody ever went broke taking a profit.
Yeah. And it is okay to stop somewhere along the value chain and just take your cards off the table. Yeah. Whether that's wholesale, wholesale, doing a listing for somebody. Mhmm.
Like, it it's okay. Yeah. You're making money. You're getting revenue through the door, and that's acceptable.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. It's tough because, we all want to just exert our will and crush. Right? Dominate, you know, gain massive market share.
But you're exposing yourself to some risk versus what you said. No one's ever gone broke, taking a profit.
Luke: Yes. Yeah. It's a super simple phrase, and it completely oversimplifies a lot of aspects of business. But it's just one of those ones that sticks with you for a while.
Steve: Yeah. All is simple. It's concise and it's clear. Okay. So that was, one thing you were responsible for.
What were some other or things that, you were concerned about? What were other things that and maybe it just never happened because you're so cautious. But what are some other things you've seen in other businesses? Again, you've seen a lot of businesses. Catastrophic mistakes that someone's watching can learn to avoid, prevent in the future.
Luke: I mean, the the the big things that are that are gonna take you out is not tapping into your network, like and just taking wild gambles on, we'll just say, large expenses. And it could be people. It could be, marketing channels, or it could be projects. Yeah. I see a lot of guys that wanna jump into commercial real estate from single family, or a syndicator Mhmm.
Or money lender. It's Tim Harridge. Keep your main thing the main thing.
Steve: Mhmm. He
Luke: does it with a good southern accent.
Steve: Yeah. He does.
Luke: I I I see people navigate out and navigate back into, and you know it wasn't successful if they're navigating back into flipping Yeah. And wholesaling. And, you know, for the most part, we've been pretty fortunate in this industry.
Steve: Yeah. I've heard a lot of horror stories. Un what's the word I'm looking for? Unverified, but, like, a lot of scary bad syndication news. Guys have done syndications that a lot of people were left holding them back.
Yeah. That's the one probably for me is the scariest. Of all those?
Luke: Yeah. Syndications. Yeah. I I see the headlines of guys leaving the country. I'm in one apartment syndication.
They had a capital call, which is not fun. Mhmm.
Speaker: Other
Luke: one that seems to be going pretty smooth, but, all things considered, those are probably good outcomes as you go, we can survive to fight another day.
Steve: But yeah. Educate me on on on capital calls because I hear about this, but I'm not that I'm not of that world. Can you educate me? What does it mean when we say, like, there's a capital call?
Luke: Yeah. So there's essentially a a forecasted or current deficit in in the fund. And so the fund the like, the apartment fund that I'm in, they own multiple assets. Mhmm. It's a pretty large fund, and it's supposed to supposed to diversify your risk.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: And there's some good assets in there and some bad assets. But, with the interest rates really changing significantly, we didn't have in that fund a lot of protection. And this isn't a fund that I organized. This is just a fund I I had invested in. Mhmm.
Actually, pretty big name in the industry. Mhmm. And, so when there's a shortfall, there's a couple options. You can either try and raise capital, from your current investors. You can bring in new investors, or you can just close it.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: And if you close the whole fund down, I think some of the projections were that we would lose 50% of what we had initially contributed. So you still get something back, but that's a pretty big hit Mhmm. Or what's supposed to be a secure investment with some tax benefits. Right. It should be like watching paint dry.
Set it and forget it for seven years, and you're good to go. Yeah. And, so, yeah, I think I think the capital call was 30% of the initial contribution, so substantial. Mhmm. And, it it gave us enough runway in the fund to sell off the bad assets and buy interest rate, locks or or protection.
This is this is not my area of expertise, but, just understanding that space and and my investment Yeah. That that's kind of the the briefing Mhmm. That that how I understand it.
Steve: What were some of the biggest lessons you learned, right, coming into a company that was already existing, getting to 200 transactions a year. What were some of the biggest lessons you learned?
Luke: For me, the biggest thing was keep doubling down if it's working.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And as you're as you're scaling, keep going. If you have your foot on the gas and it seems like the car is all held together and you're moving in the right direction, keep going. Mhmm.
Steve: We
Luke: did we did not we never set out with a specific milestone of here's how many deals we wanna do. Think, hey. This is what we think is achievable. Mhmm. Here's the resources that we think we need to do that.
But, it it takes some bets, and it takes some foresight to say things are going well. Mhmm. You know, going back to the interviewing days, the best prediction of future result is past results. Yeah. And so if your past results are going good, keep going and and keep doubling down.
If you're good at recruiting, if you're good at training acquisition managers, keep doing that.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: You have a good pipeline, keep going. Keep growing. So that that for me expanded my horizons really beyond what I thought our full potential was. I mean, we we blew past what I thought was achievable.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. What are, what are the big lessons?
Luke: You know, I also had to do a lot of self reflecting Mhmm. In, my leadership capabilities, I how I approach the business, and how I approach different personality types. I'm a pretty traditional integrator, COO kinda type. It it is my natural state. I feel like I can, do sales quite well, though, and really enjoy talking to people and and doing sales.
But it's a little bit more taxing on me than maybe for somebody else like yourself. And so when I when I would approach people who are 1000% salespeople and they are in their happy seat Mhmm. With challenges in the way that I think about them. The way that they hear it is very different.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And so, you know, for me, I did I had to take a little bit of, like, of a step back and go, okay. They're really good for a reason, and I'm good for a reason. But, for something for some reason, we're not seeing eye to eye Yeah. On this topic. And I know we both wanna do good, but there's friction.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: And, so working with, really high quality salespeople, sales professionals, you know, this was throughout throughout our organization. There's a lot of different personality types. I just I just step back and really understand some of the PI assessment stuff, how to how to alter my communication styles, how many times to communicate to people. Hey. Changes are happening.
Here's how it's gonna impact you. How to roll out changes. So I feel like I've I matured quite a bit as as a leader throughout
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: That that whole process.
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: And it wasn't it wasn't always easy.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: Because you're frustrated and you think everyone else is a problem. And there's only one person.
Steve: It is. There's always one consistent, piece. So we haven't talked about it, so I'm gonna guess It's all on predictive next. Sounds like you're familiar with this. Yeah.
I'm gonna guess strategist.
Luke: Close. Close. I'm a captain.
Steve: You're a captain.
Luke: I will gladly pick stuff up and just do it. Got it. So, low low tolerance for just waiting around.
Steve: Right. Alright. So I was off on the d. More social, less detailed than
Speaker: I suspected. So but great shape.
Steve: Not quite right. Yeah. Alright. What's, what's one more major lesson that you learned, again, scaling to 200 houses?
Luke: For me, it was, incredibly rewarding.
Steve: Mhmm. And
Luke: that the hard work that it takes to build the right team, I want I maybe wanna give people a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel. It it's incredibly rewarding. Everything is humming along and going well. There's no better feeling. Yeah.
I'm still working seven days a week, ten, twelve hour days, but that feeling and that emotion is amazing. Yeah. It's a high. It it's phenomenal.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And, you know, crushing in business, everyone's happy. They're winning. Everyone's succeeding. You're making sellers happy. You're getting five star reviews.
All that, It is so worth it. So Yeah. I know it's not all rainbows and sunshine out there in the industry right now, but as a ray of hope, like, when you hit those moments, like, soak it in. It is phenomenal. And for me, it's provided a lot of, just optimism in life and business.
Mhmm. Just realizing that, okay, the w two space, corporate space wasn't for me. I have changed significantly in my level of happiness and, gratitude for what life has given me Mhmm. By by participating in some of those moments.
Steve: Yeah. And I'm totally with you. I mean, there are days know, when those days come happen and, like, everything is just on point, you feel like you're in state of flow, you're on fire. There's no better feeling than everything working like it was supposed to be working. Yeah.
Luke: It it it is hard to describe Mhmm. Unless you've put in
Speaker: the
Luke: hours and days and weeks and months and years of work Mhmm. To hit those small windows in time where everything is humming along. Yeah. It's more the exception than it is the rule. Right?
Yeah. It it's a small window in time, but, man, is it it is so worth it. Right. It is so worth it. So for me, you know, I've got a start up business.
Those windows are fleeting right now, but I know that feeling. And I know we will get there where we've got the ace team. And it it it is that flow state. Startup startup mode is different. Startup mode is grind Hustle season.
Less thank yous, less team members. But, man, those moments are freaking worth it.
Steve: Yeah. And then somewhere along the way, you guys added TV to your marketing. So talk to me about that.
Luke: Yeah. T TV played a huge role in, in in that business's success.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: I think it's understated, in a lot of people's businesses how big of an impact it can have. And so, yeah, we we push the envelope. I think our marketing budget overall was, into the 7 figures annually. Mhmm. And so, you know, you gotta be a good steward of that spend
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Luke: And know that you're spending in the right spots. But, yeah, t TV was a big component of it. Mhmm. And knowing what I know now, could could it have even been better?
Steve: Yeah. Well, I was just thinking going back to a moment you said ago, like, lesson number one, double down. So maybe you would've wished you would've doubled down a little more on TV.
Luke: Probably. Yeah.
Steve: Okay. And then now we've been talking about your your you know, this journey right from w two job, buying 200 houses a year, mastering one marketing channel. So at some point, this chapter had to close. Correct. So talk to me about the the challenges.
Because I went through one three years now. Looking back, can't believe it's been that long. Where I had to go through that situation where, like, hey. Things you've got one vision. I got a different vision.
Our visions are no longer aligned. How about you do this? I'll do that. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke: Yeah. So so so and this kinda goes back to having, different personality
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: Types and styles is, is the partners that I had in that business, different personality styles, different visions for, what was next. 200 deals a year is a huge milestone. Yeah.
Steve: And I mean, your top I don't know. Is that top 1%? It gets it's significant.
Luke: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Alright? It's it's up there. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't feel that it doesn't necessarily feel that big, when you're in, like, a mastermind. It's still pretty good.
Like, you're still at the top.
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: But then you remember, like, is everyone all all these people not in the mastermind. Like, you're easily top 1%. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we were dialed in. Yeah. We were dialed in.
And it it it yeah. It it was cool. Yeah. But when it comes to what's next, is it 300 deals? Is it 400?
Do we get into different arms of the real estate business? Brokerage, lending, insurance. It was difficult to get alignment on what's next and the resources to to deploy it. Not necessarily just money, but who's gonna staff it.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: How are we gonna invest in it, and how are we gonna structure it? And those are difficult conversations. We're kinda, you know, starting with a blank sheet of paper a lot of times and going, well, what could we do next? Mhmm. And one of the things that we saw some common ground on was, well, for the right price.
Like, I think we could be sell the business. Mhmm. Everybody's in real estate is a deal junkie, so, of course, there's a price. Like, so it was a little bit of that where it's like, okay. We could toy with this idea a little bit.
And I think the other business partners that I had wanted maybe more of a a of a lifestyle business. Again, I don't wanna put words words into their mouth, but, maybe a little bit different direction. I'm a big growth guy. I wanna wanna keep growing the business, keep growing revenue, and and, keep growing the team. And, we we had a lot of good talent around us.
And so, it kinda came to a point where I was like, yeah. I think we have pretty different visions here. What would it look like if we weren't working together? And, so, yeah, re reached an agreement, where dealer business partners that I had, bought me out of the business. Mhmm.
And, here we are.
Steve: Yeah. And it's it's, it's interesting to me only because, like, selling a wholesaling business is, like, one of those, like, can it be done? Right? You were able to actually
Speaker: exit wholesale business.
Steve: Yes. Not a lot of people can. They try. They want to.
Luke: It's it's difficult. We were talking to the buyers Yeah. And trying to explain to somebody who's not in the industry Mhmm. Just how the money flows. I mean, you could just see their minds melt Mhmm.
Speaker: And
Luke: and the Zoom, and you go, I'm never gonna talk to this guy again. Yeah. But for somebody who understands the industry and honestly, the, like, the power of a brand Mhmm. And and a quality marketing plan and momentum, there is real real value there. Mhmm.
And and value is realized not just amongst partners, but almost a broader marketplace. Mhmm. And, so, yeah, there there's there's real tangible value there. Yeah. One of the rare that has made that transaction a reality.
Steve: Yeah. That's pretty cool. So then now we're talking about your next venture. So you decide this this chapter is closed. Did you immediately figure out what you're doing next?
I took like another one month hiatus.
Luke: Yeah. I took I took a little bit of a hiatus, and quickly realized that Monday through Friday, nine to five, there's nobody to golf with. All my buddies are still working. They've got meetings. They've got momentum in their business.
And, I was like, alright. Yeah. I I thought retirement would would be quite boring, and this is probably as close to retirement as I ever wanna get.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And, so started to shape what the idea could look like Mhmm. To bring a TV marketing in a much different way to real estate investors. Yeah. And, so met with a lot of, advisors, some family friends who have been in the media space for decades, and started to kind of shape the idea and ping pong it. I'm I'm not I'm not one to just like, here's the idea.
Let's go. Like, I'm a planner.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: I like to have a a good forecast in place and and really understand the the market dynamics and, know that I'm contributing to people when I ask them to to pay me for my services. I I I I don't take that exchange lightly whatsoever.
Steve: Mhmm. So how quickly because, obviously, you couldn't stay retired. How long was that gap in, like, closing one chapter, opening another?
Luke: I would say three months
Steve: Three months.
Luke: Or so by the time things started to take shape. Mhmm. You know, I I was going full bore in the flipping and wholesaling business. And, you know, when when you sell a business, if you're selling to a third party, somebody's coming in cold, there's a long transition period. So, mentally, I was kinda preparing myself for a long transition period.
When you're selling to somebody who really understands the business, is already operated and and been in it, it's a pretty quick pretty quick
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: Transition.
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: And, so took my family to Florida to kinda reboot for a couple weeks.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Steve: And it
Luke: was just let's let things settle down here, because it was easily six, seven days a week, ten, twelve hour ten, twelve hour days. Yeah. I mean, Monday through Friday is in the office, grind time, leads, opportunities, deal flow. On the weekends is when you're negotiating contracts to sell the houses because that's when all the retail buyer agents are out on the streets Right. Many offers, finding all the problems in your vacant houses that you have.
Like, wow. This one's flooded. This one has a problem. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah.
I guess I'm driving over here to fix this issue. So for me, there was just a, hey. Let's just let the noise settle down real quick Yeah. And get in the right mindset.
Steve: A little bit of a decompressing, detoxing kind of deal. Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. YTV? Like, why of all the
Steve: different things you could've done Yeah. YTV?
Luke: Yeah. For for me, number one, I I I just love being a part of the real estate community. Mhmm. And I wanna contribute at a high level to people's businesses.
Steve: And that's how we met. Yeah. Right? We were we were in boardroom. Yep.
Right? And, yeah, I could see you raising your hand. You're like, well, look at this. Look at that. Have you thought about this?
Like, you you're obviously a deal junkie.
Luke: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Steve: Okay. So you wanna stay plugged into the real estate community?
Luke: Absolutely. And for me, I wanna I wanna be able to to contribute in a large way.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: I I don't necessarily like the idea of, quick one hits. I wanna be engaged in in people's businesses and people's successes for the long term. Yeah. I feel like I knew enough about TV advertising, to make a big impact on people's businesses and really started to shape that idea, after I left the the flipping and wholesaling business, with some advisers that I have in what is mainstream TV media buying look like for the masses. Mhmm.
What does this normally look like? Because I had one little isolated perspective, and then my eyes were kinda open to, like, well, there's a whole another world out there on how this typically operates.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: And I was like, I I think this is the avenue where I can make a huge splash on the real estate industry. Yeah. And it's also a big impact on people's businesses. Mhmm. Strong ROI.
There's a lot of brand authority that that comes with doing TV ads, and it's just fun. I love getting text messages that somebody just closed another deal from advertising that I helped put together, that I helped walk them through the process of getting on to TV. And that's incredibly rewarding for me. Like Yeah. That's that's equally rewarding as any of the financial benefit if if that's not way greater.
Mhmm. It's just fun to me to know that I'm helping people realize their dreams and their goals.
Speaker: Yeah. So, someone watching that's considering TV, why TV?
Steve: I mean, there's PPC, there's direct mail, PBL,
Speaker: or calling text and so on. Why TV?
Luke: TV has almost an unmatched ability to drive people directly to your business,
Speaker: And we
Luke: can go into the reasons why or why I think why that that's the case. Mhmm. But it drives people to you that wanna engage in your business, which is a hard sell. I wanna buy your house for cash.
Steve: Mhmm. It's difficult.
Luke: And they're calling you to engage in that. Yesteryears, we were calling people to ask them, do they wanna sell their house, and do you wanna take a discount on it? And we're flipping the script on that. We're having people call you to say, I'd like you to buy my house for cash. It's completely different.
The motivation for people who haven't done TV ads and we bring them on to TV, they're like, these leads are amazing. Mhmm. Like, wow. I really like these leads. They're just way easier to work.
Mhmm. You get better revenue out of them, and the people aren't mad about you cold calling them, cold texting them. Take me off your
Speaker: list. Right.
Luke: Quit filling up my inbox. Nobody's mad about seeing a TV ad. Mhmm. Like, it's just assumed it's part of watching TV.
Steve: Right.
Luke: So so it's really low friction to get your message out there, and it delivers really strong ROI and is very scalable.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: That's another huge component of it too is once you find it back to let's go back to double down Mhmm. Is you can continue to double down and double down and double down on TV without a whole lot of operational headaches. It is incredibly difficult to double down on cold calling
Speaker: Yeah.
Luke: To pull a whole new list. Right? Maybe you're crushing it in direct mail on your foreclosures, your tax delinquent list. But then you're pulling another new list and looking for new motivations. You're kinda reaching uncharted territory.
Mhmm. We can continue to double down on TV until your brain explodes. Alright. Like, the the scale and reach of TV is almost unfathomable.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So then why should if I'm interested in TV, why should I talk to Hello Pro or you?
Luke: Yeah. So we are doing things very different. We are making better ad creatives. Mhmm. So we have a framework, but we are working with each individual business to understand what's your unique value prop.
What's your story? You know, there's there's a guy
Steve: at boardroom who who I've been talking to. He's got
Luke: a really cool story. His his family has roots in his local community for eighty years. His last name is recognizable for anybody who's been in the community for a long time. Nate, that's who's selling their houses for cash generally too. Mhmm.
Steve: I was
Luke: like, I love this. I I love your family story at a flower shop in town. So everybody knows the last name and the flower shop. Yeah. It's just a good quality family run business locally.
Yeah. The community has grown a lot, but to me, being able to tell that story is amazing. Yeah. So we're not using canned scripts, and we're really going deep on, well, what's your story? What's your value proposition?
We're throwing, things in there, like, a sell and stay programs and promotions that, are maybe extra hooks for people. So unique value propositions where where people can leverage their skill set and get their elbows out with their competition, make it harder for the competition to to beat them. So that that's the one thing that's important. So that's the ad creative. The other side too that's very unique for us is we're leveraging data to measure, effectiveness of the TV ads.
Mhmm. It's really difficult to do in broadcast TV, And that's that's mostly where we we air ads. Very difficult to do, and that was where I saw a huge opportunity in this space After meeting with a lot of people and doing a lot of homework in the industry, what what are the Pepsis of the world? Mhmm. What tools do they have?
How do they know TV works? How do they decide what data advertise on? Like, I guarantee you, they're not guessing. Like, what are they doing? And so I've I've developed a way where we can bring that down to the average investor.
The guy that's spending a few thousand dollars a month gets the same tools, the same technology that the big dogs are using. And for me, it's important to have that data and transparency into what we're doing and how we're gonna continue to to do better so that our clients have confidence
Steve: in Mhmm.
Luke: Yeah. I know what I'm doing. Here's our proof. And here's how we're iterating, and here's how we're making continual change and continuous improvement. Because if you're not changing, you're dying.
Right. If you're not evolving, you're dying.
Steve: This is involved, like, demographics, or is it much deeper than that?
Luke: It is much, much deeper than that.
Steve: Okay.
Luke: So so, we'll just talk about some examples.
Steve: Yeah. And
Luke: this is getting, like, way way into the depths of it. I have some clients that are like, here's the budget. Do your
Steve: thing. Mhmm.
Luke: I have other clients that, like, wanna get deep into the weeds, and they're curious about what moves we're gonna make next and why it's happening and what are we seeing. So this might not be everybody's cup of tea, but I'm getting it. But
Steve: I mean, this is the stuff I live for. I love I love the strategy. I love the tactics. Yes. Let's talk to tactics and strategies.
Luke: So we'll dig we'll dig in for a second here. So what's what's important to monitor is, responses or engagement from a from an ad. Mhmm. The the type of advertising that we do is called direct response marketing. TV is generally easy to easier to monitor that that response.
Steve: Mhmm. Radio gets a
Luke: little bit harder. Billboard is, like, darn near impossible. We we will do those advertising medias.
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: But, generally, we are pushing TV, like, way, way hard before we even think about those strategies. But so when we get into TV, we're looking at a lot of detail around what is driving that that response. And so, you know, we do have some proprietary walls that we won't try and peek over. Mhmm. But, you know, from a high level, we can look at things like what day of the week is performing better, what station's performing better, what ad creative is performing better, and and as darn close to real time as you can get in kind of this broadcast TV archaic industry.
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: You know, everybody wants, like, the Google Ads feedback, like, click by click, like, minute by minute. It would I mean, if you see like, we are so far away from that.
Steve: Yeah. We're
Luke: like, are you using AI? I'm like, I'm trying to get as close as I can to that. But, even getting this level of detail for, your mom and pa level business, not the Pepsis of the world who are spending millions monthly, is a huge stride forward. And so we're able to optimize ad our ad spend within those buckets where we can optimize within the dayparts. We can optimize within the programming.
We can optimize within the stations. We can optimize for different ad creatives. Yeah. And we get real feedback. So I guess tangible numbers to understand what do we go do next, what's working and what's not working.
Steve: This might be a dumb question. But why is it so archaic to get that
Speaker: data? Like,
Steve: we have we know when the ads are being run. In theory, we know when the ads are being run. And then we know when they're calling numbers. We know when they're landing on the website.
Luke: I would love I would I would I would love to know, like, the real real answer for that. Mhmm. From my perspective, the industry is semi fragmented. So you box, a b c, all the local affiliates, they're all kinda working in, like, different systems, different software pack you know, solutions. Some have great sales reps.
Some don't have great sales reps. Some get back to you right away. Some don't. So from from my perspective, it is a old old industry that is fragmented, which which means it's difficult to implement big changes.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: It lends itself to be disrupted. Yeah.
Steve: It well, I mean, if we're
Luke: talking about It's it's it's right it's ripe or massive change then. Because if the industry doesn't change itself, something else will come into its place and and change it. But in general, like, broadcast TV, you know, there's a few big conglomerates that might own a bunch of the station, but there's still smaller operators out there that might own a small little station.
Steve: Yeah. Like so for me as I'm listening to all this, I can't help myself. Yeah. Right? Like, I'm thinking, like, why can't we just have something that's constantly watching the TV?
Right? Because with Gemini Pro, it can just observe reality now. Yeah. Alright. Well, so with Gemini Pro, you can just watch TV the whole day with just the I mean, you can actually just have it on your computer.
Right? You could just have three laptops or three computers watching TV all day and it's reporting. It's like, hey. This ad showed up at this time. Yeah.
And just report that in in in real time feedback.
Luke: Yeah. Those some of those tools are reserved for the big dogs.
Steve: Yeah. So Well, I get that. But
Luke: It's it's expensive. So so some of
Steve: Don't think it's that expensive. I think you and I could probably, like, crack that in, like, a month.
Luke: I would love to. I've I've spent a long time getting getting our getting our modeling Mhmm. Built out.
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: And, like, it it it crossed my mind. I was like, well, if I crack this code, like, I was pretty darn close to just writing my own software. Yeah. If we crack if we crack this code, I was like, well, now I need to go sell software.
Steve: That's what I'm doing. Like, I mean, what we've been talking about is, like, the whole, you know, call, we're taking transcripts. We're transcribing. We're taking calls. So we have depending on where the lead source, right, or the call source.
But, like, right now, we're taking transcripts, and we're scoring it based off our system. And then we're we're recording that into a database that we can track in real time, you know, how good the sales rep was in setting expectations, controlling the conversation, keeping them emotional versus logic. Mhmm. Getting emotional buy in, creating certainty, create, are we demonstrating empathy or being assertive versus aggressive? We're tracking that right now in real time.
And we're pouring all that into a database. And we're using it internally, and then we release that to a few of our clients. That's what I'm doing
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: With AI. Yeah. Right? And I think that any sales team that's not using our service in, like, three months is gonna be a lot of trouble because they're gonna be going against a lot of sales teams with AI assistants. Yeah.
And I think with yours, Hello Pro, you could do the same exact thing. Just have, like, Gemini Pro two and a half, like what I'm seeing here. It just observes reality and it's, like, doing things with it. Yeah. It's insane.
Yeah. You could just have it just watching these channels and just report in real time what's actually happening.
Speaker: You have to wait for the stations. Yep.
Steve: And you can probably charge everyone that's paying for TV. Just a few $100 a month. And or if nothing else, that's a competitive advantage for using HelloPro. Correct.
Luke: Yeah. I feel like we have a a robust model given the antiquated systems that exist. Mhmm. I'm continually working
Speaker: Mhmm.
Steve: To improve
Luke: our our the effectiveness of our product
Speaker: Yeah.
Luke: And and solutions. It it it is an old industry. I mean, we're we're talking like rabbit ears, like, TV state. I mean, like, old school obscure kind of stuff. Like, most of of the people that have remained in the business, like, kinda dinosaurs of the industry.
And and then I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Like That's just they didn't jump into the digital space when that came around fifteen, twenty years ago. Like, it it they didn't make the leap, and they're not gonna make the leap now. Mhmm. So there there's, there's a lot of opportunity there.
Yeah. It's not only just on our end what what we're doing. Back back to kind of the KPI conversation, like, okay. Fine. Here's the data.
Like, well, what are you gonna do about it, and how are you gonna go do that? Yeah. And and that's we're still confined in a lot of ways to the industry itself. Mhmm. As much as I'd love to be a change advocate for the TV industry, I am like small, small, small potatoes in the TV space.
Like Yeah. It's difficult for us to compete even at at ad spend levels. For for most real estate investors, they're looking at five to ten thousand dollars depending on the market to to get started. And and it it's difficult, at at those levels to to, honestly, to be competitive with the big dogs who are spending money, like, left and right. Chevys, the Pepsi, they're they're doing branding.
They're not trying to get, like, immediate revenue today. Mhmm. They're doing things that are gonna pay off well into the future. Right. But that's the competition on TV.
So there's a little bit of a sweet spot of finding the right market, finding the right, programming so it is efficient.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: And so, man, we bust our tail to make that happen.
Steve: Yeah. So you're taking all the same philosophies with the with the KPIs, the data, making decisions with data.
Luke: To me, there's no other way. Yeah. You have to. Otherwise, you're just guessing. Mhmm.
I don't wanna sell a solution of just guessing. Yeah. That's not that to me, that doesn't sit right.
Steve: How long do you go between creatives? Right? Because it's not about sharing a story. So, like, go with the flower guy example. Right?
His family's been in there for eighty years or so.
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: So they got a brand. We crafted a story. How long do you run with that story before we say this one's or that that creator, like, this is working? Or, like, hey. We thought this isn't gonna work, but it's not.
Luke: Yeah. I mean, general rule of thumb is in once you see diminishing returns, then let's refresh it.
Steve: Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Luke: Mhmm. Still works in this space too. We're we're not we're not trying to do very, very, very fancy gigs and gimmicks and that type of stuff. It's a pretty straightforward message. And, honestly, you're working with people who are probably falling on hard times.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: So, doing anything that's gimmicky or or, you know, over the top production value wise, it's not gonna it's not gonna land well.
Steve: You use car sales guys screaming at the TV in in a chicken suit. We're not going we're not gonna do that.
Luke: I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, make sure you just lost your parents and inherited their house. Is the chicken suit gonna motivate you to call those people? Or the guy that's kinda standing there going, hey.
We can provide a real honest solution for you. I've been a member of this community for twenty years. I really take care of people that wanna work with us. I wanna work with that guy. Yeah.
He's he's gonna understand my circumstances. He gets it. It's not a it's not a it's not a charade.
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: So so how long do you wanna run an ad creative for? Well, the broad rule of thumb is until it's not working. Mhmm. But we'll see you when it starts to to trail off. Right?
Steve: Yeah.
Luke: I do routine meetings with all my clients to keep a pulse on that. We're monitoring on the back end as well. But I I had a meeting as I was starting to to shape this agency, with a guy, very high level production. So picture like info infomercial. Mhmm.
Thirty to sixty minute, lot of production, like cooking appliances, George Foreman grills, the you know, spill something on the carpet. Look at this magic vacuum. It pulls it all right out. It like, pretty high production value stuff. Now we're not doing that, but I had a really interesting meeting with him.
He got a lot of awards. Like, you know, people kinda, put their awards in the background of their Zoom Zoom, meeting, like, in background of their camera. Right? He had award after award after award up there for production value. And, I was like, well, like, here's kind of the space that we're in.
Like, how do you you know, he gave me some exorbitant price to produce ads. And I was like, okay. Yeah. No. Thank you.
Like, we don't have the budget for, like, a $50,000 ad like, that's somebody's annual budget
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: For all of the ad spend. Like, and I still gotta buy the spots too. Yeah. Producing a 50 spot. Like, holy moly.
Like, this isn't gonna work, but, like, let me just pick your brain. Like, we're here anyway. Like, what is a good run like? He's like, well, the longest that we ever had was three years. And there's a lot of people out there that have been running ads for way longer than three years.
And is it that we know more or this guy who's got a whole bookshelf full of awards?
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: Which one knows more about ad creative? Yeah. I promise you that guy knows a lot more about it. So it's something that we're monitoring. And so that that's kinda always stayed in the back of my head of keep it fresh, keep it relevant, but keep the message and branding the same.
And that way, you don't lose the momentum that you have.
Steve: And then you have
Speaker: a case study. Someone's got a four x ROI?
Luke: We've got, yeah, we've got a handful of case studies. Four to five x ROI, I would say, is, good for a good quality operator.
Speaker: Mhmm. A
Luke: lot of people come in, engaging in a sales call. They go, well, what's my ROI gonna be? What's your exit strategy? Yeah. And for somebody who can only wholesale, you should be pretty content with a two to three x ROI in this climate.
That's one's really not buying a whole lot of anything anymore. Certainly, if they are buying, it's not at the prices they were buying before.
Steve: Oh, definitely not.
Luke: I don't know many just straight up wholesalers that are doing a lot better than two to three x. And if you are, hats off to you because you have your stuff dialed in. But if you know how to flip properties, if you're adding to your rental portfolio and you capture that equity in your in your revenue, if you can do sub twos, if you wholesale sub twos, if you do novation, you know how to do wholesale. Right? You've got a deep toolbox of dispo strategies.
That four to five x ROI is very tangible. And as much as I'd love to be able to get people there on month one, sometimes it does take a little bit of time. But, we've had clients change ad agencies, and we are able to get them much better ROI. And I I just attribute that to we just have a different perspective on how we operate. We're in it for the long term.
We measure our results. I've got two ace media buyers on my team with decades of experience, like, back to this, like, archaic industry. Like, kinda have to know, like, when to call the right people and how to ask for the right things to make stuff happen for you. And we're buying we're bringing in clients too that tried to do it themselves. We're getting 25% better rates than they are.
And so for me, it's just chalking up those wins along the way, and it's super gratifying.
Steve: What are the things that, like, for someone that, you know, is trying on their own? Like, what are some of those mistakes where they realize, okay, we just gotta use Luke?
Luke: If you're frustrated with your TV results or the agency model my agency model is very different. I work direct with the clients all day every day. Will that always be the case? Will everybody be as fortunate to have one on one time with somebody who's been in their shoes? Probably not.
But today, that's the case. We've got excellent media buyers on my team, and our billing is direct. We facilitate everything in house. So if you have a question about anything, you want anything done different, like, absolutely. I want you to be a client for Mhmm.
Not just today or next month or the month after that, but, like, for years. Yeah. We can grow people's TV ad spend levels to incredible heights. And I don't say that in that, well, great. Then we get more revenue.
I say that because they're getting an excellent return on that. They're not gonna continue to invest in it if they're not getting great returns. They can grow their business and honestly change the trajectory of their life and their family. So so if you're frustrated with the results, if you're curious about TV, if you want a new marketing channel, I'll just throw this out there. If you're in a small market and nobody is doing TV, freaking run the TV advertising.
Yeah. You will rush it. You will have so much reach, it's not even funny Yeah. Or not that much ad spend.
Steve: So you're saying you're not like the other ad agencies. Your model's different. How is your model different?
Luke: Yeah. The the one on one direct relationship is, first and foremost, one, important to me. I I wanna maintain that direct relationship. All of our billing is direct. So there's there's Hello Pro and there's Hello Pro.
There's Yeah. That's it. So the buck stops here. And I and I did that for pure accountability. If we're not adding value, what are we doing?
Mhmm. The other biggest thing too is is on the, measurement side, the data side, we will get to a point where we have substantial amounts of data that is untouchable. Yeah. And that is a an incredible asset in and of itself. And, we're we're growing that, and it's it's important to realize that there's there's a lot of momentum and value that comes along with that as a new client, as an existing client.
You know, I I I was talking to to, actually a client. He was he was asking me what PPC provider should I use? I was like, well, talk to these guys, and a couple weeks later, we met again. He's like, I chose to use these other guys because I kinda got, a weird feeling that there might be some competitors using that agency in my area, and they wouldn't really tell me if they were in my area or not. I was like, why wouldn't you use them?
Why wouldn't you go with a competitor who already has years of data from a competitor, and they're gonna put you ahead of them or at least in an equal playing field day one versus starting from scratch, somebody who hasn't played in that marketplace before. Yeah. Words or the budget allocations, bid strategy. I'm not a PPC guru. So Alright.
Probably way over my skis here.
Steve: Sure.
Luke: But it's important to understand, like, there actually is a leg up in in having that data and being kind of a part of that competitive, collective group that's just moving the the needle in the industry.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think it was one thing, that's really critical in marketing. You've hit over and over again is data. You know, people that are watching the show know that I used to handle my own PPC. I used to handle all my own marketing.
And I actually was handling my own marketing again till I finally outsourced again because I got tired of creating new creatives on Facebook. But, you know, having that engineering background, you like to look at data. You're not allergic to spreadsheets.
Luke: I am not allergic to spreadsheets.
Steve: Right? Like, because most business owners, they hate spreadsheets. Right? But, like, for me, it's like, okay. Well, we we we put in x dollars over here.
We got y dollars over here. Okay? Like, how can we put more x dollars in the x? How how how many times can we put money in the x? Right?
Luke: And and and how many times are those the high quality operators? Like, you you mentioned, Jason Lewis earlier.
Speaker: Mhmm. And I
Luke: think he thinks similarly. Yeah. Right? Where you remove emotion out of all decisions Mhmm. And you just look at it for what it is.
Mhmm. How hard can I push this thing until something breaks? Right. And, I think about a lot of other high quality operators. They think similarly.
Whether they're of a of a engineering background or not, like, those fundamentals of just being, break things down in the simplest format and and go for it. Alright. Probably, why not?
Speaker: Mhmm.
Steve: Yep. If someone wanted to, get involved with, Hello Pro, how would they go about doing that?
Luke: Yeah. So the easiest way is just go to my website. Go to the hellopro.com, and you can book a call with me straight off the website. You can engage in social media, hellopro.tv on Instagram. You can also friend me on Facebook, Luke Winter.
Steve: Yep. Gotcha. So right now, with everything you got going on, what is your biggest struggle today?
Luke: My my biggest my biggest struggle today is honestly, finding the right balance of growing the start up business and still doing the things that I wanna do Mhmm. With my family and experience in life. We've got two young kids. I've got a great wife. We love spending time together.
We love traveling. Business is exciting.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: New business ventures that are going well are exciting. Yeah. Helping my clients win is really exciting and can be distracting.
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: Not that that's the most that's not the most important thing, but, none of us are getting out of here alive. Mhmm. And, you know, it really hit home at at the last boardroom meeting when I heard Ed Mylett speak. It is, who are you doing this for, and why aren't you doing those things for them today?
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: You say the business is for your family. Why are you missing dinners? Mhmm. And I don't miss family dinners.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: It's really important to us. And so it's finding that right balance that's difficult. Mhmm. Because, man, I freaking love this business. Yeah.
Like, I love helping my clients. I love helping people. I just love being a part of the community. Mhmm. And it's still finding the right time to network
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: Outside of business to, nurture relationships with family, and make sure that they're getting what they need from me, the husband and father.
Steve: Yeah. It totally resonates with me. Like, I was talking to someone earlier. I was at I was coaching Cole.
Speaker: I was coaching someone else. And, I I I was looking at the we
Steve: were talking about hustle season and this and that. And I was looking at the bottom right, I was like, tell my wife. You know, in '22, things got a little hard.
Speaker: Right? Especially in Phoenix.
Steve: And I was
Luke: saying to
Speaker: her, hey.
Steve: You know what? I'm gonna have to, like, hustle and grind for the next few months while we, like, put this together. Alright. Get this all back. Looking down, it's like, in three years since I gotta hustle and grind for a few months.
Luke: Yeah.
Steve: Right? Now we never missed dinners because I just did nonnegotiable.
Luke: Yep.
Steve: But, man, like, working weekends, working evenings, like, trying to make this all work, it is is is a real, real struggle. What do you want to be remembered for?
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Luke: I wanna be remembered for somebody who cared. Mhmm. Somebody who tried their most. And I think for me, getting slightly emotional because it's important. For me, my life really changed significantly when I had kids, and life is about the kids.
Mhmm.
Speaker: And
Luke: then and giving them the biggest opportunity in their lives, giving them the best lessons, the best education possible. And it's important for me Mhmm. To to give that to them. And I feel like my parents did that for me. And, so so for me, it's, it's trying to ensure I'm a good dad, I'm a good husband, and I'm and I'm giving my everything, to everybody in my life.
Mhmm. I don't I don't want somebody to go, oh, he didn't try that hard, or he had this opportunity, and boy, did he squander
Speaker: that. Mhmm.
Luke: I I don't want that. I've taken akin to to really focusing on my health, my fitness. And, for me, those are those things that are gonna help prolong the story and help make me better from end to end. And, so for me to be remembered as somebody who cared, somebody who tried it tried and tried, and somebody who helped grow a great family, grow great businesses. Like I said, I just I want those stories.
When it is the end, like like, wow. Those are some good stories.
Steve: I admire that. It reminds me a lot. I mean, Tim Harris was in the seat just a few weeks ago. Right? And it was the same thing.
Like, the guy just wins belts after belts after belts. Right? Yeah. He got, like, a heavy chain from Family Mastermind. He's always recognized at the boardroom.
Like, what like, why? Why does this happen? He's like, you're so passionate Yeah. By helping everyone around me. So it's awesome.
What is your superpower?
Luke: If it's not obvious by now, man, like, the systems, the metrics, that stuff, like, just happens in my sleep. Mhmm. Like, I just wake up and I go, hey. This is alright. This is what we have to measure.
This is how we're gonna do it. That is my absolute god given gift.
Steve: Was that before working in oil and gas?
Luke: That's a good question. I think that really helped funnel, some of that ability, into productive activities. I don't I don't know where I would be if if that wasn't it. Like, I I would've I I went to school for engineering to be in, like, the car industry because I thought it was really freaking cool.
Steve: So, like I went to engineering school to get in the car industry?
Luke: Yeah. Which the car industry was garbage in 2008 and 2009. Like, I had offers rescinded during that time period, and I was like, well, I guess that dream is now crushed.
Steve: What dream job were you getting rescinded?
Luke: Man, I had visions of test driving Corvettes around a racetrack. Mhmm. I know that's, like, an impossible job to get because, like, everybody dreams of that. The pay is probably, like, zero. But, like, picture a 17, 18 year old kid going like, well, what's the career path that you wanna do?
You're like, man, I just wanna drive some cool cars and go fast and, like, live life. Yeah. Like, that was a lot of motivation for me that, like, got me into, like, the engineering space. And engineering kinda turned into just being a good problem solver. Being a good problem solver turned into solving business problems.
Mhmm. And that was just kinda the evolution.
Steve: Yeah. So this question, since your planner might not land anywhere, but which failure did you learn the most from?
Luke: Oh, man. For for me, I I I don't wanna sound sound sound sound like I'm on some high pedestal because I've had plenty of failures. Mhmm. Like, I I am by no means perfect, but I have avoided most catastrophic risks by by any measure. Mhmm.
Speaker: I
Luke: was foolish enough to self manage my six unit apartment building for, like, five years. I don't actually attribute a lot of my gray hair to that. If I would've just gotten out of my own way, I've I I I wouldn't consider it a failure, but the opportunity cost of that time was significant. Yeah. And I was doing the showings for tenants.
I was coordinating contractors. I was making sure I wasn't getting ripped off. And by the time I actually had enough sense in me to hire a property manager, I was like, okay. Do a cash out refi. I've got a ton of equity here.
I have to start lending this out because now I have more cash, and that's the problem. Like, I should have been focusing on this stuff, like, three years ago. I should have a cash out refi. Should've used that to springboard into more investments or lending. Like, where could I have been?
It was not necessarily like a crash and burn on fire failure, but the lost opportunity in that in that time, granted, I did learn some things. Like, I think I could have been much further ahead. Mhmm. So in the opportunity cost, that was probably the biggest dent. Yeah.
Like I mean, it's so many, like, ridiculous stories about tenants. I had a I had a guy. He was a fixture of the building. He lived there for beyond twenty years when I bought the building and stayed there for at least four years when I was in the when when I owned the building. I go to they're trying to make improvements, make the place nice, and he'd give me a call.
You cut down my marigolds. Oh my god. Come on, man. Like, I'm just trying to make this place nice. I realized, like, they're probably your marigolds, but they're mine.
Mhmm. And I they're overgrowing, like, all of the sidewalks all all around the building. We gotta make this place a little bit nicer. Yeah. Like, I know what you're trying to do, but okay.
Fine. And one day and this is this is when I knew I I needed a property manager. Like, I was like, it's finally time. I get a call from the police, and they go, we need to do a wellness check on Unit Number 1. Same guy.
Fixture of the building. I knew he was in poor health, and I was like, okay. What what do you guys need? Like, well, we want you to come down and open open the door. Otherwise, we're gonna have to break it down.
And I was like, man, I don't need to see a dead body today. Yeah. That is not not what I need today. I'm not going to open the door. Like, you guys go right ahead.
You break down that door, figure out what's going on inside,
Speaker: but
Luke: I ain't seen a dead body. That is not happening. Like, that's the that's the line. Mhmm. They broke down that door and RIP, the old man Richard, he was he was a good tenant, but he was, he was deceased in the unit.
Yeah. And, that that was the day I was like, we're handing over the keys to a property manager. I'm I'm I'm that's where I draw the line.
Steve: Yeah. Oh, that's that's good. That's, I've said countless times, you know, in all the years buying real estate. Like, I've seen everything you possibly see for a dead human body. I've seen dead animals, cats Yep.
Whatever. Yep. Right? Plenty of rats. Yep.
But still manage to avoid human body.
Luke: Yeah. Let's knock on wood for that one. Yeah. Hope to never cross that bridge. Yeah.
And, you know, it's an it's an unfortunate part of life. But, yeah, it it's just something that if you can, let's just keep our spirits high
Steve: and focus on on the good things. I did have, on video footage, a realtor taking a dump in my backyard in my last flip.
Luke: Oh, no. Oh, no.
Steve: I got the footage of that, but Oh, no. That was not ideal. It's like, you know, you get a message from your team, like, hey. So, this happened, and, like, no. Like, you're like, I'm I'm having lunch with somebody.
It's like, no. You're kidding. Like, that's not a real thing. It's like, nope. Like, send me the footage.
Luke: And send
Steve: me the footage.
Speaker: Like, oh,
Steve: okay then.
Luke: Yeah. That's one you've got a better stomach than me because I'd say I don't need to see that video.
Steve: I don't believe them. Yeah. I just didn't believe them.
Luke: You thought you were getting pranked?
Steve: It's pretty crazy.
Luke: Right? That's wild. Yeah. That's that's wild.
Steve: What book have you gifted more than any other?
Luke: You know, I I'm I'm more of an audiobook guy. Mhmm. I I recommend, this is maybe a little bit off the beaten path. I think you're a Ray Dalio guy.
Steve: I I like Ray Dalio. Yeah.
Luke: So what I point a lot of people towards is principles. Mhmm. Because I think no matter what business you're in, what season of life you're in, it is incredibly durable and applicable. Mhmm. That's what principles should be.
Yeah. Principles should be things that stand the test of time. It's like gravity. It's real. You can test it and you can prove it, and it's never going away.
Yeah. That's the same thing with principles. There's some there's there's parts of that that I that I think about, and, you know, there's not one specific tactical thing that you go, this is it. This is the golden nugget out of principles. There you go, this is why I'm thinking about things wrong.
This is why I have my organization set up wrong. He is he is one of the great minds in America. Yeah. One of the greats. He understands market dynamics probably better than anybody in the world.
Right. And to be able to to get as concise of points out of it as he has in there
Steve: Mhmm.
Luke: Is good. I mean, that's basically the bullet point level. Like Yeah. He basically tells you, read the book and then just read the bullet points. Mhmm.
Like, keep that around your desk. You're like, yeah. That's brilliant. Most people just write books
Steve: to be like a long book because they have a ghostwriter or
Luke: whatever it is. You know? It's like, okay. This is kind of principles of life and business in, like, a bullet format. It's memorable.
You can take it with you, revisit it. So I I I just really like that one. It also resonates well with a lot of the things that I I I learned working in Koch Industries. It was very principle based. We're not gonna give you the rules.
We're gonna tell you, you know, kind of the general parameters
Speaker: Mhmm.
Luke: That we like to see things done in. The catastrophic things, there will be rules. There will be speed limits, but in general, there's not. Yeah. And that allows for, quicker innovation and more efficient operations.
And and for me, that that's one that I I I point a lot of people to. It's not real estate specific. No. That sounds great. Is it is it one that I think about a lot?
Steve: I should go through it again. The one thing that stuck out for me that I've been really hardcore on is, you can learn a lot about a person if you just have them take multiple assessments. And that has been true a lot more than has not been true. Right? Making hiring decisions, nonnegotiable with personalities.
Now look, We're gonna miss some good people. We're gonna miss some good people that didn't fit personality assessments. But, man, how many people didn't fit, and we hired them, and it didn't work out versus people that fit it did work out. The greatest predictor of success. We can gamble with someone that doesn't fit, or we can,
Speaker: like, what's the word,
Steve: mitigate our downside.
Luke: Yeah. It's it's a game of probabilities. There are no certainties. There's no certain hire. There's no certain house to flip.
Mhmm. Like, you might think you're close to certain, but it is not 100% ever.
Steve: Right.
Luke: And I think Tom Brady, you know, for better or for worse, his broadcasting sheds a light on how he looked at the game. Mhmm. And he thinks about the game in probabilities. Mhmm. He's like, that was a 95% pass that was overlooked by this rookie quarterback.
He's going for the 10% moonshot, like touchdown, celebrate, like, highlight real type passes. He's not thinking about the game in the right way. Mhmm. He needs these high probability passes. Sure.
Maybe you take those shots when the defense is sleeping. Mhmm. But he thought about the game of, like, where's the highest chance of success? Mhmm. And you just need to tip the scales in your favor in every aspect of of business.
And and I probably mentioned it a couple times, but it's a it's a business is a series of bets. Mhmm. You're placing a bet on a new hire. You're placing a bet on a house, on a new marketing channel. And just like the casino, but you're tipping the odds in your favor in every one of those bets.
Speaker: Right.
Luke: And you should be. You should be using the tools at your disposal to push those odds as far into your favor as possible and make those bets as close to success as you can Right. Where the risk is much, much, much lower than the reward.
Speaker: Yep. I want you
Steve: to think about this last lesson I'll leave all the listeners with. Guys, if you value today, please, again, hit that subscribe button. Please share this with someone that somebody that needs to hear this. Again, that way we can all grow together. What are the last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners with?
Luke: Yeah. Last thoughts. Keep pushing. If you're in real estate investing, I'd love to work with you on the TV advertising side. It can do great things for your business.
It's gotta be the right timing, though. Mhmm. We can talk about what that right timing looks like, if you reach out to us through the website. But I just wanna be a part of everybody's success and, just wanna see people win. So, yeah, keep pushing.
Keep driving. It is not easy, but keep on trucking. And, you got a lot of cheerleaders behind you. Me, even if we haven't met, like, I'm rooting for you.
Steve: Yeah. That's great. How can I get someone, connect with you?
Luke: Yeah. So go to my website, the hellopro.com. Check out my Instagram, hellopro.tv, or look me up on Facebook, Luke Winter.
Steve: Perfect. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. It's been a blast. Yeah.
Luke: Thanks, Steve. Thank
Steve: you guys for watching.
Luke: See you
Steve: guys next time.
