How Chris is Currently Flipping 160 Houses in 12 Markets?

Steve Trang: Everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we've got Chris Johns with SBD Housing, and Chris Flewane from Kansas City, Missouri talk about how they're scaling into 12 different markets. If If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer for some of the top home buyers in the country, and I'm a mission to create 100 millionaires. Question I get all the time is how to become one of the 100 millionaires.

The information on this podcast alone is enough for you to become one in the next five to seven years. If you will take consistent action, then you will become one. If you wanna get there faster, send me a message on Instagram, and we'll see if we can help you with that. If you get value today, please tag your friend below, share this episode right now. That way we can all grow together.

And And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Chris to answer. You ready?

Chris Johns: I am.

Steve: Alright. So first question is what got you into real estate?

Chris: Boy, Steve, that's a great question. So, about a decade ago, I was in corporate America doing the traditional grind that, that so many people like me were doing and realizing it was something I probably didn't want to do forever, but was likely going to have to do. And ended up meeting and playing golf with a gentleman who was selling this thing called a turnkey asset, or rental properties that I really didn't understand ended up befriending him. And it just happens to be Mark Dela Tour, owner of SPD Housing. But at that time, he started explaining to me the benefits of, you know, bringing on real estate as a passive investment to drive income later in life.

And so initially, bought my first asset from Mark. So this

Steve: is ten years ago?

Chris: Yeah. This was about ten years ago.

Steve: Exactly. 2011. Yep. You're an executive selling what were you selling?

Chris: Medical, diagnostics.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So you're selling medical diagnostics. Doing well.

Chris: Yeah. Life is good.

Steve: And you were living

Chris: At that time in Kansas City. So you

Steve: were in Kansas City at this time. And this guy, Mark, is just hanging out at the country club.

Chris: It's a little worse than that, actually. So I go, I'm a new member. Yeah. You should have been. I'm a new member and I was a decent player at the time and the pro's like, oh, you're, you know, you're a decent player.

You should go play with this gentleman. Mhmm. Sure. Sure. Great.

I'll play with anybody. So he convinces me that we just play a straight up game. I don't know him from Adam. And he goes on to just beat the living snot out

Steve: of me.

Chris: Come to find out at that time, he was like, you know, two time club champ. I mean, he was on to become, like, 10 time club champ. So that's how I met Mark. So he's pretty

Steve: good at golf.

Chris: Well, and he's pretty good at not, not setting a bet.

Steve: Yeah. So

Chris: anyhow, we got to meet Mark, became friends, and really started buying turnkey real estate with the hope of building up a portfolio so that one day, if I ever tired of corporate America, I'd be in a position to say, you know what? This isn't for me anymore. I've got thirty, forty rentals that are producing x amount of cash flow. I'm not gonna do that thing you're asking me to do.

Steve: I'm out.

Chris: So that was the plan.

Steve: So that's different than most people because most people, you know, they're reading a book or, you know, they're miserable at their jobs, and they're like, something's gotta give. That was not your situation.

Chris: Well, I you know, I, like everybody else who's listened to this, certainly had read Rich Dad Poor Dad. Mhmm. But I was raised like so many Americans to put my money in the stock market. You know? My wife, myself, you know, we had our four zero one k's.

If we had a good year and we had some leftover money, it would go into a Roth IRA. Maybe at that stage, you know, we were into traditional IRAs. Yeah. But that was what I had been learning. Even though I'd read that, you still get programmed.

Certainly if you're a corporate employee, maxed out your four zero one ks, and I was a Dave Ramsey fan and Susie Orman. So I read it all.

Steve: Was. Was. You were a Dave Ramsey. Okay.

Chris: We could talk about that. Let's do that. Nice to meet you. Yeah, we could talk about Dave. Still big fan.

But, so anyhow, but Mark really opened my eyes to what that could do for me. And what was most amazing, you know, if you read any of the literature, Rich Dad, Porta, you're reading the book, whatever. How the question isn't, is it a good idea? Steve, it's how can I do it? Mhmm.

I was not going to be able to find a distressed asset. You certainly didn't want me rehabbing it. I didn't know what property management was. Certainly couldn't pick out a good rental rate. So Mhmm.

It wasn't that I didn't believe in real estate. It just wasn't easy and available for me to invest in. And that's really, what SPD Housing, Mark Dela Tour, was able to change for me at that time was to bring something that was really hands off, and something I could implement pretty easily.

Steve: So is that similar to your clientele today when you saw in turnkey as people executives or people that hire net worth individuals that know real estate is the key but don't have the bandwidth or resources to do that?

Chris: Absolutely. Yeah. It is. It is individuals that see the value in real estate, not just turnkey, but real estate in general, Steve, maybe are either not in love with the stock market or maybe have some money in stock market, but are looking to diversify, and see real estate as that key. But, again, they're busy.

Yeah. They're professionals, or they recognize, I don't wanna do that. I'd be bad at that. And we provide that solution. So, really, in the end, SPD these days is providing investment opportunities backed by real estate, for high net worth individuals who are looking to expand, their portfolio and ideally use real estate, as a way to ensure their legacy.

Steve: And how many properties did you buy from Mark?

Chris: I I bought seven.

Steve: So you bought seven properties from Mark? Yep. And then over a span of how much time?

Chris: Gosh. It, it kinda dripped in and out over the years. So probably over six or seven years. Yep.

Steve: Okay. So what was it that prompted the conversation that you guys should link up?

Chris: Boy, so I looked you know, it's interesting, Steve. When I was in corporate, again, happy to have been there, learned a tremendous number of things, was able to do a lot of good things for my family. But early on, I realized that I didn't enjoy it. I was yeah. It just wasn't who I was, who I wanted to be, and it was just taking a big toll on me.

And I knew, if I was successful, I'd get the opportunity to be promoted again and take on more responsibility. And then if I did that really well, I could do that again with more people that I didn't like Mhmm. Or trust. And I had just a clear vision. I looked at the, the players that were, you know, at the SVP level.

They were exhausted. They were 55. They were overweight. Had a heart attack, divorced, etcetera. I mean, that's just, you know, a little generality here, but that's

Steve: the truth. I mean, honestly, when I was working at Intel, that's kinda what I was looking at. You know? I was like, okay. So everyone that's, like, the future path

Chris: The success.

Steve: Of success is I get promoted to management. None of the managers are happy. Correct. They're all working fifty, sixty hours. They're expected to work on weekends, and reply to emails at night.

There was not a road. There was not a a a lane for me to fill working in the corporate world.

Chris: So you saw man. Just do it more. Do it more. More

Steve: of it.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: You make more money, but you're not enjoying life.

Chris: Correct. And so I was just at that stage where I I knew there had to be a better way. I didn't know what it was. And, you know, through conversation with Mark, recognizing that if I could build up cash flow, which clearly the stock market, is build up and deplete method. Right?

Mhmm.

Steve: But if

Chris: I could build up some cash flow by using rentals, ideally, I'd be at that stage, whatever it was. I'd be I was gonna grind it out, but clearly I haven't because I'm here today, and have 30 assets kicking off a couple 100, $300,000 a year, whatever that looked like. So one day I could say, no. That's not for me anymore. That was gonna be, like, in my mid fifties.

Steve: But something changed?

Chris: Something did change.

Steve: What changed?

Chris: Boy, a lot changed. So, you know, for really for Mark, something changed, which brought a great opportunity for me, Steve.

Steve: Got it.

Chris: So, you know, I know Mark's been on podcast and shared the story with you, so I'll give you kind of a high level. But, you know, when he was building the business, the main acquisition channel was really buying on the courthouse steps through the auction process. And as auction.com and some other things in the market changed and evolved, it became so competitive that margin was just getting depleted and depleted and pleaded. And Mark's he he's a visionary. He's an expert in this space.

Saw that coming and thought, I need to find a better way. And I was a sales guy, you know, building sales teams for a long time. He said, hey. I need to do this seller direct thing. I need to start buying assets, not raise my hand.

Mhmm. You could help me with that. So I started doing some consulting for Mark, helping him look at what a sales guy

Steve: corporate background.

Chris: Using my corporate background, on my limited nights and weekends in exchange for discounts on real estate. And, you know, that was gonna be fine. I was gonna help him in that way. But then I had an opportunity to go with him down to Collective Genius, just to check it out. He kept talking about this Collective Genius, CG CG this, that.

But I was like, you wanna go? And I'm like, sure. Let me go see what your investor buddies do. Blew my mind. Clearly, like, you know, smartest, greatest people, organized helping each other, go givers, and it just was so different.

So, anyhow, I, I see that Mark's in a position where the weight of the world's on his shoulders as a solopreneur. He's tired. He's not having fun anymore. And we went to dinner that night, and he was just whooped. And he's like, hey.

I'm gonna go down to my house, you know, down the coast. You're gonna head out. So Mark left. I got on the airplane the next day. I I was so excited about what I saw.

I knew what real estate could do for people. I knew what I could do for Mark. It was crystal clear. Right? I saw what CG can do, and I saw what I was good at.

So I took out my iPad, and not many people know the story, and I started typing all the reasons that Mark needed to hire me. And, and I just kept going and going.

Steve: Sales presentation.

Chris: Essentially. Yeah. Yeah. I was. And and I mean, he's a dear friend of mine.

Sarah Beth's a dear you know, our families are close, and, I I wanted to help him. So, ironically, I get off the airplane. I get a text message that says, hey. Can you talk in the morning? Whatever time is good for you.

Sure. Mark calls me the next morning. He's like, hey. I've had a chance to reflect. I've talked to my wife.

I've talked to my dad. I really think you should come work for me. And, you know, I I buried the leader. I gave him the out, and I was, like, I agree with you. He's, like, well, think about it.

I said, Mark, I can send you an email right now, the top 10 reasons you need to hire me. So we're pretty pretty much in alignment on this thing. So, call it what you want, you know, happenstance, god thing is what Mark and I refer to it. It just it was meant to be.

Steve: Didn't play any hard to get at all. And be like, I don't know.

Chris: He would argue, some of those things I did. We might have a disagreement on my value. Initially, I I think we're fine with it now. No. I mean, man, I was I was tired, and I was ready to make a change too.

Steve: Yeah. Got it. Okay. So when was this that you guys that that you guys initially partnered up?

Chris: So it would have been, April '19.

Steve: Yeah. So really not that long ago.

Chris: Two and a half years. I mean, it's funny. I was thinking on the flight down here.

Steve: You guys have done a lot.

Chris: A little bit's changed. Right? Three years ago, I was, you know, over in Europe selling digital pathology, and now I'm here on the Steve Trang podcast. You know, I was thinking, boy, I used to listen to, Doug Hopkins on my Sundays when I lived here in Arizona. Now I get the pleasure of hanging out with Doug and Darren and those guys.

Very different. Much has changed.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So we're talking about scaling right now

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: Which you and I had lunch just a moment ago. And I think that scaling is one of one of the things everyone talks about. It's a buzzword, I believe, in our industry.

Chris: Oh, yeah.

Steve: But I don't think people realize what it takes to scale. So you guys started very in Kansas City, obviously.

Chris: Yep.

Steve: You wanna talk about the foundation? We'll start with the foundation and some of the challenges along the way Yeah. And actually scaling a business.

Chris: Yeah. So, you know, when when Mark and I talked about me coming on board, it wasn't to keep the status quo. I wasn't I wasn't nor was he interested in me coming and maintaining the business the way it was. It just wouldn't have been fun, still, I don't wanna say, young as you and I have been joking about here the last, Overlaunch. But it

Steve: wouldn't be worth it to either one of you guys.

Chris: No. No. I just do no. It wasn't it wouldn't excite me, and I wanted to be excited. So, you know, we kinda set up some ambitious goals at that time and and said, okay.

Hey. Let's go do this. Let's do this together, and let's grow this thing because the demand for the product was so high. So the first thing that I told Mark and Sarah Beth was, hey. I'm excited, but there's gonna have to be, you know, some kind of ground rules.

And Mark had his. And and one of mine was, if you're really, really in love with all of your team, and so much so that we're not going to be able to make the necessary personnel decisions should we have to, just tell me now because I'm not coming. I'm not. My background was building underperforming teams in corporate America and helping them become high performing teams. I've done it.

Did you just think about I tell Mark, it's gonna take eighteen months. Is the I could tell them all the things. I did it, like, four times.

Steve: You're the consultant that comes in. I mean, there's office space. Right? The Bobs? Or Yeah.

Are we the Bobs?

Chris: Man, yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately. Well, we'll get to the integrator

Steve: role. Experts.

Chris: That's the deal. That's the integrator role. Right? I mean, we're like it or not, and I'm comfortable with it. He's the good news guys.

I'm I'm the bad news guy. Yeah. It's just the reality. So, you know, so I I I knew that we would have to make some personnel changes. As soon as it was announced that I was coming on board, our two acquisition guys left within, I don't know, four weeks.

Steve: Oh, okay.

Chris: They just and they knew me. I've been consulting with them, and they're like, oh, when he says it, he means it. Yeah. And when he says he wants to measure it, he's actually gonna write it down Yeah. Which is way different than your typical solopreneur visionary.

It's like, hey, guys. Go do this. And you just assume as a visionary that if you say it, it magically gets done.

Steve: You say that it gets done, and the team's trained to know that even though you said it, you might not mean it.

Chris: Correct. Yeah. They should just know everything that you want and go do it at the highest level, immediately.

Steve: Right.

Chris: That's all.

Steve: But then when Chris says it, it's actually gonna

Chris: happen. Or or the well, it may or may not, but there will be a level of accountability.

Steve: Right.

Chris: Right?

Steve: Got it. Alright. So two weeks or four weeks in, two guys are gone. Yep. Out of how many?

Chris: When we started, there was 17 employees.

Steve: Okay. So two off the bat. And then what?

Chris: Over time is, you know, is and and, again, this is not just with any small business. This is when you're rebuilding any team. Right? Mhmm. When you take the bar from here to here, some people just aren't able or willing to to go.

Some people just refuse to go. And so if you fast forward to

Steve: today comfortable.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: The way it's always been, Chris. Like, how can you come in here and change it like this?

Chris: Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I you don't know how we do things here.

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: Right? Right. I know you're new.

Steve: You heard this before?

Chris: Tell you. Of course. Always.

Steve: Let me Before Mark and at Mark's place.

Chris: Always. Yeah. Every time. It's expected.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: I've never come into a role where they're like, hey, Chris. We're super excited you're here. We've been blowing out budget year over year. We've got great process. We've hired the best people.

Our culture is really, really good. Glad you're here. If you don't mind, just sip some coffee in the in the corner. Right? You know, never ever have I taken over a position where we had the outcomes that were that were expected from the leadership team prior.

Steve: Right. So what's interesting here is you come in, again, as an efficiency expert. I'm not sure if that's the right term. Yeah. Right?

But you're improving performance. Right? You're coming here to improve performance. Absolutely. Start off with personnel, not processes, not systems,

Chris: personnel. Personnel just happens naturally when a leader or business owner chooses to bring somebody in to layer accountability in the business.

Steve: Got it.

Chris: I didn't have to do anything, Steve. And not that I necessarily wanted to. Right? I mean, in a perfect world, everybody stays, everybody grows, you create the business outcomes. Perfect.

Be great.

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: But, again, as you and I both know, the COO integrator is not a Kumbaya guy. No. So yeah. So naturally, people, you know, are tread out. And then as you you know, as I began to learn the business while I was buying real estate, I will certainly tell you I did not know real estate, not like I do today.

Yeah. So, you know, what we ended up doing and, it was really interesting. It worked out very well. Mark did his absolute best to allow me to make mistakes and to allow me to learn the business. So the first thing I did was jumped into one department, learned the business with him coaching and guiding me.

Mhmm. And then I went from department to department. And as I went there and understood the business, well, then you start doing these silly things like asking questions. Yeah. And they're like, well, we always do it that way.

And I'm like, okay. That's actually you'll learn. That's my least favorite answer to any question I ever ask. So you can say it, but it's, like, the worst answer.

Steve: There's only one answer for me that's worse than that.

Chris: What's that?

Steve: Well, I feel like it.

Chris: Yeah. Agreed. I mean, it's just brain damage. We're always not that way. Oh, okay.

Well, they're not meeting our goals, so maybe we should change.

Steve: Alright.

Chris: So as I learned the business and asked more questions, I think people even became more aware, like, ugh. These guys really believe in creating something different.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Oh, they're paying attention now.

Steve: Right.

Chris: Maybe I'm not the right person.

Steve: Yeah. We're actually monitoring this now. Correct. So I wanna ask you this, because I think a lot of people have a hard time with holding people accountable. Yep.

How many people did get the fire, and how many people deselected themselves?

Chris: I would say it's probably 70% deselect out. Yeah. And so, like And that's historically. Yeah. I've had to let very few people go.

Steve: And I bring that up because for a lot of us, they're really uncomfortable firing. It's like, you usually don't have to. If we just say here's the standard, and every week I have to have a one on one with you, but you not meeting the standard, you will get tired of showing up to these meetings.

Chris: Absolutely. And, you know, and with a corporate background, you know, I mean, we talk we talk EOS and all the things that are now happening in a lot of these smaller business. But from a from a guy who came from, you know, big, big companies, you know, Fortune 500 companies, I learned very well how to performance manage.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And if I had to tell you and you didn't know, you're obtuse. Like, I mean, we we've had the discussion. We've written it down. We've gone through the performance plan. Like, most people are like, I'm out before I ever have to have that difficult conversation.

Yeah. But where I see others struggle, those who, like, want accountability but don't believe in it, they have that that difficult conversation. Then tomorrow, they go, I mean, Steve, I know we talked yesterday, but if you could just try, that'd be okay too.

Steve: Yeah. That was me. Terrible. That's why I have everyone else.

Chris: Guy. Yeah. I met a whole group of smart people. Yeah.

Steve: So, so you're talking about, you know, your your strength is getting performance. Let's talk about that because I think, again, you know, I think that's something we don't really talk enough of on the show because here we're talking about scaling. So if your your job is to improve performance, what are some two or three things that someone can do to immediately improve performance in the organization?

Chris: So, I mean, it it's you and I talked about this once. Every business is a people business. Right? And, you know, we're talking about these difficult well, again, I don't think accountability is a dirty word. Okay?

Like, we we'll talk about it later again. I love accountability. I love to be held accountable.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: High performance players love accountability. Right? Yep. A players wanna play with a players.

Steve: Absolutely.

Chris: Right? A players do not stick around with b, but they can tolerate b players. They sure will not stick around with c. Don't waste their time with d players. That's just reality.

So but it all so to get back to that, you know, it starts with people. So hiring. Hiring and firing starts there, so don't be afraid to let somebody go. I look back over my career, and I was talking to one of our team members the other day. I've never let anybody go who is honest, hardworking, committed, and transparent.

It just doesn't happen.

Steve: Uh-huh.

Chris: Because if you know me, I'm gonna stay there till 08:00 every night working my tail off to help you get to where you wanna go. Yeah. If you're those things. If you're not, time to go. It's

Steve: not gonna work.

Chris: That's not gonna work. So don't be afraid to, like, make transition your company. Mhmm. When you do Are

Steve: those your core company core values, or is that different?

Chris: Those are different. Okay. And we'll talk core values later because those are critical about the next part I'm gonna bring up. Hire well. Hire well.

Mhmm. You know, you hear it all the time, slow to higher, faster fire. That's easier said than done. But with good process, it becomes true. Yeah.

But we've made a massive commitment, massive commitment to bringing on the best talent, supporting those people, and creating a great onboarding process. Are we good at it yet? Mark would say yes. I'd say no. I'm the pessimist.

He's the optimist. So, I grade everything. I don't think I've ever given an a in my life. So I'll give us a c, which is probably like a b. So we're getting better at those things.

So create a great onboarding process and and bring on good people. So one, people. Two, I'm I'm gonna be, like, simple stuff here. Great great process. It's not it doesn't have to be perfect.

Do I have everything written down? No. Will we at some point? Yeah. Yeah.

But at least give somebody a direction to go from.

Steve: Well, I like that. Right? Because I think a lot of people are trying to perfect their process. And here you're saying, you don't need to write it down, but there has to be a process that's teachable. Yeah.

Ideally, written down, maybe better, train you well, whatever.

Chris: Exactly.

Steve: But at least have a process that you can communicate.

Chris: 100%. Yeah.

Steve: Which is I think there's this barrier that a lot of people stop. I don't I need to perfect this.

Chris: So one of my favorite sayings is never let perfect get in the way of good enough. Mhmm. You know? So we have scaled, substantially over the last two and a half years Right. Volume and revenue and all of those things, number of FTEs, all of that.

You could argue irresponsibly because we have not written it all down. It does cause me a little angst, but we scaled, and we've grown, and we've accomplished tremendous amount because we we didn't have to have it perfect. Could we have scaled if we wrote it all down? If I brought in here this beautiful training manual, and you could say or even better to your point, Trainiel Mhmm.

Steve: I don't

Chris: think you'd invite me here because you're probably interested because we've produced results.

Steve: Alright. Yeah. So it's easy to say, you know, we gotta hire well. But I think a lot of people that are beginning to scale, not even scaled yet, beginning to scale is this is what their biggest challenge. Mhmm.

So what would you tell someone that's going to hire now? How how would you coach someone to hire well?

Chris: So, you know, what when I talk to and I talk to a lot of the operators, you know, in the industry now. Mhmm. And I there's a a common thread as we first start talking about scaling and and bringing on people. It's compensation. Mhmm.

You have to be willing. You hey. You want the best talent, but you don't wanna pay for it. Yeah. That's not how the world works.

No. Talented people wanna be compensated.

Steve: Yeah. They know their worth.

Chris: They do, and you better Mhmm. Or they're not gonna come work for you. Yeah. So you gotta get your compensation in a line. And you have the you have to have a vision to share with that.

Again, we're talking about a players now. Right? We're not talking about, can that person do the job at the least amount I can pay them, and maybe will they stay a year or two?

Steve: Alright.

Chris: That's your typical, you know, building a business mindset.

Steve: It is. A lot of people get stuck in this mindset of how little can I pay this person to get the job done?

Chris: Yeah. And and you can stay mediocre for a real long time.

Steve: Right.

Chris: Or you get really tired doing it too. Mhmm. Right? Never take a vacation.

Steve: Well, although you don't think they take a vacation. And when things go south after hours, you, it's not them.

Chris: Right.

Steve: They're not rising to the challenge. You don't pay enough to rise up to the challenge. No.

Chris: Or you got the wrong person because you just wouldn't pay enough from the onset. Yeah. So I think you really gotta look in the mirror and say, do I, a, do I want this? Because there's gonna be some costs, and the first one's compensation.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: You know, when we talk about it and when, you know, Mark and I had our conversation, you know, I I was I was making a fair wage, and I expected to continue to do so. I took some risk as did he, which was fine, but it's an investment.

Steve: Right.

Chris: Right? So when you invest in something, you're gonna have to put a little capital into it, typically. So I think just know that when you're looking to scale your business, set some money aside or whatever it is, because without people and talented people, the rest of what you and I are talking about really doesn't matter.

Steve: Right. So alright. So, the other thing you were talking about, slow to hire, fast to fire. And, again, that's something I said all the time, but are people really doing it? So it you guys have a full time recruiter now.

Chris: Yes.

Steve: So before you guys had a full time recruiter, what was the process for for interviewing and onboarding and hiring?

Chris: It was terrible. So, you know, you had me and Mark writing a JD, job description. Right? Mhmm. Okay.

So you got two guys who, for argument's sake, don't really understand the role. We understand the output of the role, but we don't do it. Mhmm. Frankly, most of the roles in the company, aside from leadership roles, I've not played them. Right?

I'd our maintenance guys are the best. Do I could I go do their job? No. And I'm gonna write a job description for them, Steve. Mhmm.

And I'm gonna know how to find them. So right? I mean, I hear you. Okay. And I'm gonna go to what, to whatever website I just saw on the TV.

So we're doing everything wrong. So you had us writing the job description. Yeah. That's figuring out where to post it, and then we probably had the wrong person with the first conversation.

Steve: What do you mean?

Chris: So one of the things that I've learned, is the importance of the first impression. Again, we're talking about hiring talented people, not onboarding bodies.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: That first impression for a company to give to the type of person you want to come to that organization matters. So if you have, oh, just, you know, just have the assistant answer that it's not a big deal. Okay. Well, we just said recruiting is not a big deal. Mhmm.

Or if it's so important, Mark, or I need to do it, but we're so busy, we're gonna half ass it while we're in the car. Well, now we're just half assing it. Mhmm. So we've gotten very good at creating a strategy. And, by the way, I take, credit for none of this aside from hiring this person.

But we've gotten very good at creating a great first impression. And so when people finally get to talking to us and they get to the when they get to the meeting with me or Mark or one of our hiring managers, they're qualified. They've been through the PI. They have a positive impression of the company because they've talked to Susie, at our company, now Elle, and we've got great people talking to them, and we now can give them a clear vision of the company, you'd wanna work for us. Right.

We're a great company. Yeah. Before, we we didn't tell anybody we're a great company because we didn't get them on the phone. We didn't get people to tell that story to.

Steve: Alright. So people is the first step

Chris: Absolutely.

Steve: In scaling these multiple markets. Mhmm.

Chris: What was

Steve: the next thing you had to do? Begin scaling.

Chris: Well and I I could step back. We'll come vision clearly, but we're not gonna give Mark credit for his vision today. We'll talk about we'll stay on the integrator stuff. Mhmm. Vision then people.

You know, I'm starting to layer on some process. So, again, it doesn't have to be perfect, but we have to have a baseline for fit people to figure out where to go. Mhmm. We have to know what we're good enough at. So if we would have chosen to scale right out of the gate, we were not good enough at rehab at all.

Mhmm. We would've lost our shirt. But we got good enough. So we had some process

Steve: rehabbing in multiple markets? Yeah. Crazy. Alright. Yeah.

Chris: We're gonna rehab in 12 markets. It'll be fun.

Steve: I can't even I can't I would lose sleep over that. But, anyway

Chris: You lose sleep I mean, we were talking earlier. I think we've got a 160 assets under, under construction right now.

Steve: Crazy.

Chris: So, do you wanna go over sleep? I got the right people. Then they've got a good process, Steve. Yeah. And we got good partners.

Steve: True. But I still I think I still got some scars from 2007, but they continue. So got good rehab.

Chris: Yep. And then we got and Mark has always been great with, you know, I guess, you'd call it dispositions and traditional, you know, business investor relations. We have great relationships with our investors. We've got tremendous demand on the back end. So we had that box checked.

And then we built out really, really good back office, stuff that people don't like to talk about, like finance.

Steve: Yeah. Well, maybe people don't wanna talk about finance. But I love this topic of finance. Not that I like getting into spreadsheets or or the QuickBooks, but Jason Medley says this all the time. Right?

Like, you know, gaining money is a what is it? Gaining money is a dis is a skill. Keeping money is a discipline.

Chris: Absolutely.

Steve: And not enough people talk about that part because it's so easy. You're not tracking it. You just watch it go right back out or right out the back door. So what are you doing to get good at your financials?

Chris: So we made a commitment. You know, once we decided to really get serious about the growth of the business, we made a commitment to bring on a fractional CFO. Mhmm. And, again, I'll I'll lean back on my corporate experience. When when I, you know, talk to some of the operators and our business at the time when I came on board, I'm like, hey.

What's the budget look like?

Steve: Budget?

Chris: Yeah. We made x last year. Okay. Let me re what's the forecast? We're gonna make more.

How much more? A lot? Okay. So, so

Steve: That sounds like every conversation we have.

Chris: It should be. Right? We're gonna get leverage. Where? We just are.

So we get pretty serious about building out a a budget. And if you ask my leadership team, I very clearly shared in our last l 10 what a budget is. Mhmm. And it's commitment. A budget is a commitment from the leadership team to the business.

Steve: Okay. So we are going to spend this much every single month.

Chris: And if we don't, we're gonna make a we're gonna make a rational business decision Mhmm. Based on metrics, and we'll talk about that's the other part of a good finance team. Right? Mhmm. Providing the data on which levers to pull.

Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna make our numbers. You know? I'm not a guy who misses my number.

Steve: Alright.

Chris: Never have been. Don't plan to start now. Yeah. For no other I mean, we talk about all the bad things that come with that mentality, but we will not miss our numbers.

Steve: Yeah. That's huge.

Chris: Yeah. Because I'm committed not to Mark necessarily, but today, I think we're 30 employees. Living into that budget ensures that 30 families are gonna have the income that we told them when we hired them.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: That's pretty important. That's the level of commitment.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's one thing that's often overlooked. It's like, yeah. We wanna get all these people. We wanna hire.

We wanna scale, but there's a responsibility. Right? Like, for us as business owners that we we're making a commitment to take care of somebody. Right? It's not like, there weren't other opportunities, other places for them to work.

We made a promise to somebody that if you do good work, your job is safe.

Chris: I've my first leadership role in corporate America I'll never forget this ever. I was, like, four weeks in. Just moved my family from Missouri up to Kansas City, and, the company was not doing well. And they said, hey. Congratulations, kid.

Because I was a kid at the time. You need to lay off 11 people. Like, how do I do it? They're like, you tell them that they no longer work here. I didn't know these people from Adam.

Yeah. And I sat in my office with HR who was like, I'm not doing a damn thing here. I'm just making sure you don't say anything illegal. And I had to lay off 11 people. And it stuck with me in the most meaningful way that if I ever had control over that, which I did because I had a budget from there on out

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: I was never gonna do it again.

Steve: So these are people that I had to let go, not for anything they did wrong. It was just the company was mismanaged.

Chris: We were not gonna make our budget number at the top. CEO down just said, you know, labor was a big expense line there. The easiest way to do it was cut expense.

Steve: Yeah. Which is unfortunate way things are done in a corporation.

Chris: Right? 100%.

Steve: Yeah. When you got shareholders and you got accountability and you gotta hit quarterly earnings and this and that, that's a crappy part of big big corporations. But we fortunately, we don't have to do that.

Chris: No. Nor do I ever intend to. Yeah. And, you know, and, again, if you know all of your levers and, you know, you have a bad quarter or whatever, hopefully, pull a different lever.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: But, no. I I mean, we make a commitment, Steve. Every time we hire somebody, you know, as we grow, people will not get to know me well. Those people who do know me well mean that that's, like, my driver. Yeah.

Making money, buying fun. Don't get me wrong. Happy to provide for my family. But being able to provide opportunity for really good people Yeah. That's exciting.

Steve: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's it's one of those things I didn't realize I would enjoy. So, you know, when I first opened up my brokerage many, many years ago, I did it for two reasons. A, I was tired of having a broker review all my advertising because, legally, that's what's required. And, b, I was tired of paying him a percentage of my, commissions.

Right. Right? Then you learn when you open up a own brokerage. Don't do that, guys, if you guys listening. It costs more to own a brokerage than it costs to pay a split.

However, taking care of people, hiring people, coaching them up, watching them grow, live a better life, be better off financially, it's so incredibly rewarding. I had no idea. Right? Because I opened up my brokerage. I had a green.

Right. And it's it's been way better after having people work with us.

Chris: Dude, it's you know, there's just it gets me excited. Right? There's very few things anymore. You've got basketball. I play a little golf.

Very few things I get to be competitive about. And that, you know, I'm not competitive about that, but it means so much to get to help help drive value for people. I've got a few things to say that may have some value. And if I can share with somebody and they get something out of it, it impacts their family. You know, there's some people on our team that, like, I know I can impact the future for them and their children Yeah.

If SPD delivers on its promise, its commitment to them. Right.

Steve: And that's your responsibility?

Chris: 100%. And I wouldn't I wouldn't change it.

Steve: Yep. One thing you mentioned right now is forecasting.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: You wanna explain what forecasting means?

Chris: Yeah. It's an interesting topic right now. So when I get home, tomorrow morning, the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna sit down with our CFO, and we're gonna build out the budget for next year. So, you know, it's what's the prediction for the future. Right?

So the budget and the forecasting. If we don't have an end target, if you aim at nothing, you're guaranteed to hit it. Mhmm. Right? Right.

You know that. So we gotta set you know, we gotta set a guideline for that. But then we need to figure out, okay, high level. We can call it top line and, you know, rev and expense line and, hey. How here's what we think drop down's gonna be, and that's all fine and good.

But in which markets? Is it gonna be turnkeys? Is it gonna be flips? What's the revenue projection for each of those? And we will build out a methodical projection for each market.

And when we're off, because now we've written it down Mhmm. We'll make pivots. But, yeah, if we don't if we don't start forecasting the business, and we can talk about the importance of cash in a business like ours Right. How's Mark supposed to know which how much capital to go raise if I don't tell him, hey. We're gonna buy 400 houses next year, Mark.

We're gonna get through we'll get rehab up to about 270, of those, and we're gonna open up another office and this and this and this. Is he just gonna shake a tree and find another $4,000,000?

Steve: You can do that when you're doing a couple of deals. You cannot do that when you're doing a couple 100 deals.

Chris: We found you could you could do that up to a 100 deals.

Steve: Yeah. So when when you're forecasting, then you're forecasting for the year. You're projecting for the year.

Chris: Yes.

Steve: Got it. I'm only asking this because for us, as our as our organization, we forecast about thirty days ahead. And all we're forecasting is not this kind of, like, how much money we're gonna need. All our forecasting is what are our bank balances gonna look like in thirty days? Because for me, I know, you know, reading Profit First

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: Scaling up.

Chris: Yep.

Steve: And then That was a look. And then Keith Cunningham's The Ultimate Blueprint The Ultimate Blueprint for Insanely Successful Business. And the things that I learned from those books is financials. And, again, it's nerdy. It's not fun, but it's so important.

For me, it was a long it took nine to ten years to actually be able to look at a balance sheet and a p and l. Took ten years. Way too long. Right. But then we got to a point where not only could we look at our balance sheets and p and l's, but now we can project what the bank balance is gonna be in thirty days.

Right? Because we know what our expenses are gonna be for the next thirty days. We know where revenue's gonna be in the next thirty days, and we know what our cost of sales as well based off that revenue. Yeah. And now we know exactly what our bank balance is gonna look in thirty days.

Man, the confidence and the decisions you can make, you can project what you're gonna have in thirty days versus, I don't know where my money's going.

Chris: Well, let me say this. If if you don't nerd out over that kind of stuff Mhmm. You should not scale. If we're talking about scaling up and you don't get excited to know your numbers

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: Or at least have somebody on your team that does it. But as an owner

Steve: Right.

Chris: You better. Yeah. Right? You you got you got all these mouths to feed. If you don't get excited about that, I would argue you shouldn't do it.

Yeah.

Steve: I'll assume.

Chris: You know, I know that sounds really direct, and it's not at use to you. I'm just saying in general, man, that's where the that's where this whole thing is. Mhmm. It's in those numbers. There's a lot of activity, but they generate an outcome.

Yeah. And if you're not tracking or predicting it again, I can tell you the the stories of what we've gone through over the last, gosh, you know, eighteen months since we put our foot pretty hard down. And, you know, Mark will say we've been hovering over the accelerator pedal, and now we're hitting it. Mhmm. He and I must have been in separate cars, because I felt like we had it down for a while now.

Steve: For him, it felt like they were he was it wasn't going fast enough.

Chris: Yeah. For you And I went driving right and

Steve: all that.

Chris: But and in fact, hurry up. Yeah.

Steve: He's a backseat driver.

Chris: Yeah. It's fine. That's what the integrators deal with. But, no, man. You know, you have to be able to project these things.

And and if it's a cash intensive business or marketing intense or whatever it is, if you don't know your numbers, I I don't know how you're gonna get where you wanna go. You don't even know where you wanna go Yeah. Is my argument. And that's when people wake up, on the other side. You know, one of the things that Mark and I talk about, businesses that are scaling don't often go out of business.

They grow out of business. Mhmm. And that's a strict relationship. And the third thing we should talk about was just cash. Yeah.

You know, you said you are scaling up. That's one of the four components of that book, cash.

Steve: Yep. Yeah. I used to hate having cash in my accounts. Now I'm really happy.

Chris: Because you wanted to leverage it?

Steve: Well, no. Because when the recession occurred not recession. When COVID struck, I did not lose sleep. Like Yeah. Right?

Like, we've been prepared for this. You know? We have

Chris: Cash reserves.

Steve: Cash reserves.

Chris: Profit first?

Steve: Profit first. Right? But prior to those financial books, right, money comes in, where can I invest it? Where can I drop it? Right?

This idea of grind, grind, grind, hustle, hustle, hustle. As money comes in, we gotta invest it somewhere else or we gotta spend it in one way or another. And the financial maturity that comes from reading those books really shifted the mindset and really, again, get I didn't lose any sleep when COVID struck.

Chris: Not many business owners can say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta fall in love with the numbers.

You you gotta you gotta read those books. I mean, you know, scaling up is a fantastic, book. I mean, it literally, if you walk into my remarks office, I guarantee it's sitting within two feet of our computer Yeah. Because it's so critical.

Steve: And we got to meet one of the authors. Right? Howard Leaky Bucket Guy. What was his name?

Chris: Howard Shore.

Steve: Howard Shore. Yeah. And we got to meet one of the authors.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, fantastic book, Gazelle Group. Yeah. I mean, we we literally we are living that book. I had so, you know, again, we're talking about all these great things that we're doing well now.

The only reason we're doing them well is because we did them poorly. For a while, felt the pain and decided the pain sucked. You know, I've read Scaling Up. Mark's read it. But as we are scaling, now we're feeling some of those things.

And then, of course, now we're, you know, we're responding quickly and fixing it. But yeah.

Steve: So you said the next thing after that was metrics. Mhmm. What's the next so the next part of of scaling?

Chris: You know, so measuring. Right? I mean, measuring metrics. So I've we've got the right people. Yep.

We got our process.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: It's great. Is our process any good? I don't know. Why not? Because we're not measuring it.

Yeah. So then we've gotta measure it. And it's been an interesting conversation. This is one of the things that, you know, we have not done great. Like, a lot of it scaling.

Again, I'm not apologizing in any way. We have chosen to run hard and grow to a certain point. As I told you at lunch, we're gonna we're gonna get damn good at this stuff, in 2022. But, you know, we're really layering in those metrics to say, is that process working? Is it not working?

And the only way we can do that is if we're measuring it, KPIs. Right? Yeah. I was trying to explain it to somebody the other day. It's a really hard concept.

I mean, we can we can all read traction and all these things, but, like, how do you simplify it? And I was like, okay. If if I'm two hundred pounds today, that's a metric. That's just is. It's me at a point in time.

Mhmm. Let's say I wanna get to a hundred and ninety pounds. Okay. Now I've got a goal. I'm metric, and I got a goal.

But what how am I gonna get there? By wishing?

Steve: Put it on your vision board.

Chris: Put it on my vision board. Exactly. Magically, it will happen. I'll read a book about it. I'll put it on my vision board, and I'll live into it.

So now and then I gotta measure. Okay. How well, I gotta create a plan. How am I gonna get there? Alright.

I'm gonna do 50 push ups a day. I'm gonna run two miles. I'm gonna eat 1,500 calories, whatever that is. But then we set out those three criteria. Mhmm.

And we start measuring, and I go to Mark, and he's like, how are we doing? I'm like, dude, I'm two zero two. How many push ups you do? None. Do you run?

Did you eat dude, I had some great cheeseburgers the other day. Fantastic. You should have them. Right? Yeah.

So we have to start measuring everything, and we're getting pretty good at that. We did well, I'll get I mean, we're a plus on that on the financials and some of the business metrics. And I know I don't give a's, but, like, the confidence that you had during COVID is the confidence I have when I look at our numbers, and I can tell you how long it takes me to rehab an asset, how much cash I have in it. I mean, inside and out, I've got eight pages of metrics that would blow your mind about how operationally strong we are. Yeah.

We just gotta get better at the department level now.

Steve: Right. And that's a lot of people putting in data, and you gotta monitor that. And that's that's one of the hardest challenges I know for us. Right? Because we try to get pull as much as we can

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: Out of our CRMs, you know, whether it's, we were when you were using call tools, when you were using Podio, when we were when when we are using Salesforce, we're trying to pull as much of that data out as possible to automate. But, man, it still requires human capital. Put all that stuff together.

Chris: Human capital or in massive investments into technology. Yeah. You know, that was one of the things it's funny. I used to get a management dashboard every day at LabCorp, when I worked there. And, literally, I could read that, and I knew how my day was gonna be.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Because I knew I knew last night's business. Crystal clear. Did x y z happen? We don't have that today. But we've made a big investment, into Left Main being one of those key platforms that we use.

Mhmm. But then we hired on our own Salesforce admin.

Steve: Oh, you did?

Chris: Yep. Have to. Yeah. How can we scale the business responsibly if we don't know what the heck that thing's doing?

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Stephanie's gonna give us a great report, but that report may be more reflective of your business, potentially, than mine. Mhmm. Now we've hired that person.

Steve: Yeah. Ryan and my team, he just keeps pushing me over. I was like, I don't know. So that's awesome.

Chris: Alright. I

Steve: mean More power to you. Yeah.

Chris: I had a conversation with a good friend of mine, in this market. Look. Just the TV guy. Mhmm. And he does it all himself, and he's the best.

Right? And you know what I'm talking about.

Steve: Yeah. Darren.

Chris: Darren's the best. Amazing. But I challenged him. It's the last CG said, dude, just because you're great at it, what are you not doing as COO or CEO for your other business? Mhmm.

You gotta get somebody in your team who can do that for you. Yeah. So I don't know.

Steve: He's living a pretty good life too. He's pretty happy.

Chris: Eight hours a week. Yeah. Yeah. He's the best. I love that guy.

So yeah. So systems, you know, to get us there, I agree with you. If it's you know, that's why I told my team, say, guys, alright. We're gonna use this quarter to get our KPIs and measurables aligned, and I don't want any that aren't automated. If I've gotta pay one of my smart, talented people, to go like this and input it, don't do it, find another solution, or, let's find a VA who can do that.

Steve: Oh, that's and that's exactly what we is a whole lot of VAs. Yeah. So right now, you guys are doing 250 plus deals or on pace. Yeah. 250 plus deals.

Chris: Buy around 240 assets this year.

Steve: And one thing is you didn't wear the shirt. We talked about it.

Chris: Yeah. What's the shirt? It, man. I've got it. I'm not wearing it today.

I've got the shirt that says truly, iHeart Wholesale, which you can see it, on our sbdwholesale.com website.

Steve: Yeah. So talk about that.

Chris: Yeah. So when the business, you know, when the auction was no longer viable for us to continue to for Mark to operate the business, frankly, much less grow it, we had to look at different acquisition streams. You know better than I do, truly, how difficult seller direct is. And we chose to look at some other channels first, and we got very committed to buying from wholesalers. And we built darn near business around it.

And so of the assets that we'll buy this year, probably 70% will come from wholesalers.

Steve: Incredible number. Incredible percentage.

Chris: Yeah. We're in one market right now where all we do is buy from wholesalers.

Steve: Yeah. Crazy. So yeah. So how do

Chris: you

Steve: set yourself apart? Because you're not the only game in town.

Chris: No. My argument would be, it'd be interesting. I've you know, I've talked to a handful of my wholesale partners. First off, we're professional. Mhmm.

We run a very professional organization. So if it comes out of one of my team's mouth, it's gonna be factual. We say we're gonna do something, we're gonna do it. Yeah. And if it's wrong, I'll probably live into it.

Mhmm. Right? So we're gonna honor our commitment. That's a big thing that I think a lot of other buyers may not do. Right.

Do you ever have a buyer back out in the last minute?

Steve: Yeah. They get blacklisted. Yeah. They will never get another deal from us. Right.

Chris: Yeah. But we're not gonna be that guy.

Steve: Right.

Chris: So, you know, we we're committed to being professional. We're exceptionally well funded, which matters. Right? We can close. We say we're gonna close.

I can do volume with you. That's my goal. I wanna buy everything. Literally, if you're a wholesaler in Kansas City and a deal pencils, I'll buy every single one you have Right. As quickly as I can, so we can buy in volume.

We can take down assets that many people can't. You know, our average turnkey rental products, rehab is $47,000. Some of that's because we do a Cadillac. Wow. Yeah.

That's a lot of money. Right? For a $150,000 home.

Steve: Oh, for okay. So it was 47,000 put into it.

Chris: Yeah. Where are you at?

Steve: I'd like to say you sell it for a 40 it's like, wow.

Chris: No. No. We're selling it for $1.47 and put 47 in it. But so we can take on more challenges than others. And, again, I'm not I'm not saying bring me your junk.

Mhmm. But we can do those things if it

Steve: pays the ability.

Chris: We have the ability. Yeah. I I think that's the thing. And we're persistent. You know?

My team should be calling you every week. You should be getting an email reminding you that we're the biggest buyer in the market. And, ideally, we're gonna look for some partnership opportunities. I'm an open book. I'm transparent.

You ask me a question, I'll give you an answer. Yeah. So I think where we are versus a lot of other wholesalers, and you and I talked about this, I think we're pretty good at knowing the market Mhmm. And the market conditions. And I I can share some insight to a wholesaler, maybe some insights that could help them drive down their acquisition price.

Steve: Right. Yeah. And I think those are all great points. The other thing is you guys are managing 600 doors.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: So, I have said, if it's real estate, I will do it. Right? I mean, I'm a serial entrepreneur, shiny object syndrome, left and right. Got multiple businesses. But the one thing I always said, I will never touch property management.

And then Frank Cava basically, like, just kind of convinced me otherwise.

Chris: K.

Steve: I'm still on the fence. Yeah. But you guys manage 600 doors. Yeah. How much fun is that?

Chris: It's really, really, really fun to offer a fantastic full turnkey product to our investor base. So if we didn't manage it and I had to trust somebody else to do it, I wouldn't be as proud of what we offered to our investors.

Steve: Got it.

Chris: It gives

Steve: you the confidence to say this is a good product.

Chris: So, you know, the company manages my assets for me. I've been to none of them. I don't know my team knows way more amount. They know my addresses. I don't.

Mhmm. And that's what we sell. Right? So, no. It's it's necessary for us a 100%.

It's been a struggle, man. It's been an absolute struggle to get that to operate. It looks fine from the outside.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: But it's very difficult inside. And so we've had we've been retooling and rebuilding that. Maybe when I see you again soon, I'll tell you how excited I am about PM. Mhmm. But, I'll

Steve: grow your hair back. You'll grow your hair back.

Chris: That'd be awesome. Yeah. And it'll be, it won't be white either. So, no, it's a challenge, dude. There's no there's no if, ands, or buts about it.

But what I can tell you is we brought on a new leader recently, and she is getting her hands filthy dirty

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: In the guts of PM. And that's where the magic is. It is not a business where you can necessarily process it out and market around it. You have to have somebody who's willing to live and breathe property management.

Steve: Got it.

Chris: And I've got a team of people that do. And so, yeah, we'll be we'll be pretty damn good at it again soon. Like like, I'll know we're good at it versus our owners are getting paid and our maintenance is, you know, happening and those things. I'll know that we're doing it efficiently.

Steve: Got it. You know, one thing we didn't talk about earlier, on on the scaling component because maybe because we talked about earlier, over lunch was that a lot of people say they wanna scale, but they don't really know the challenge they're gonna go they're gonna step into. Right? Like, for a lot of wholesalers have never done a deal. It's like, man, if I could just do a deal, that'd be great.

Right? Like, that's kinda where they're at. Right. But then you come to a point where marketing is actually the easy part. Right?

Then it's getting that contract signed consistently. Right. But then you get good at that. This last frontier, people, we can get good at it, but people are naturally crazy. That's just who we are.

We're just animals with bigger brains. That's all we are. So can you talk a little bit about your experience as far as, like, maybe people are potentially underestimating the challenge in managing people?

Chris: So, I mean yeah. Look at me. I'm already I'm already tired before I even answered the question. I think, you know, we'll get it two ways. You know, we're an EOS shop, and and so, clearly, Mark the is the, you know, visionary Mhmm.

CEO. And it's great when you have an exceptional visionary. Mhmm. So he can really shine a light on where we wanna go. That helps the people part.

Steve: Okay.

Chris: People believe in Mark and his vision. Alright. People come knowing they're gonna be part of something great. Yeah. Because we have an impeccable leader at the top.

Okay? That's a big part of it. Clear vision with great trustworthy leadership. Got it. I think that's the next thing.

And then as far as the rest of you, they're crazy. Mhmm. But we're in a position now where we're choosing our people a little differently.

Steve: You're a lot more selective.

Chris: Absolutely.

Steve: It reduces the the variations of craziness.

Chris: I mean, you know, life still happens. It happens to all of us. Right? Absolutely. One of our one of our favorite employ well, everybody's a favorite.

But, you know, one of our new team members had something going on in their personal life yesterday and had to go. Mhmm. And they're a critical member of our team.

Steve: Right.

Chris: Life still happens.

Steve: Absolutely.

Chris: But with that said, we had some good people around her Mhmm. To pick up the bag. We had some decent process. Somebody else can do it. Yeah.

Now the people part's hard, Steve. And I and I'd, you know, I'd love to say, like, it's, I'd love to say something negative. Dude, I'm an introvert. Most people wouldn't know that. Like, I I actually get my energy when I'm home Mhmm.

And alone and that stuff. But I dig people. Yeah. Like, when I'm at work, like, I'm all in on these people and this outcome. So for me, while they're crazy Mhmm.

There's some some back of the office that are crazier than others. They know who they are. They might be listening. Yeah. You gotta love the people thing.

Yeah. Because if you're not more committed to them or equally committed to them as they are to you Mhmm. It's a fail from the onset.

Steve: Yeah. So if you don't love your people, that's gonna be a major challenge.

Chris: Oh, dude. Yeah. You have to love your team. I mean, you know, we can we we make all these sports analogies, but for a reason. Like, if you don't if you don't work for a great organization, so we can go Kansas City Chiefs here Mhmm.

With great leadership and ownership, the Hahn family, Mark Dela tour. We've got great ownership leadership at the top. Mhmm. And then we've got, you know, arguably decent coaching, with me, who cares about what that organization looks inside the locker room too Mhmm. To produce a great outcome for our fan base, our investors.

I don't know. I think you just have to really give a damn. Yeah. You you don't give a damn, don't stop weeding people.

Steve: Right. Oh, I think that's a great point. And I think, again, it goes back to you're selective in weeding out people that can be cancerous, that can be causing problems. And

Chris: What do you do with cancer, Steve?

Steve: Excise it.

Chris: You cut it out? Yeah. It's hard to do. You know, we we we've had some some folks that have left the organization that's been really because they're great people.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: But literally days later, your office is a new place.

Steve: The it's a the air is a little fresher. Everyone's breathing a little bit better.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And you can't scale with stale air.

Steve: No. You cannot. You cannot. One thing that, you got chance to speak on, or was it Mark that got to speak on on stage, was that you guys have a very unique visionary integrated situation

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: In that you have final authority.

Chris: Yeah. It was interesting. Again, you know, we talked earlier about, you know, how to be how to get it aligned and all that stuff. And, you know, I I said you gotta have per compensation is a big part of it. But for the right person, it's also trust.

Right? Mark and I have this personal trust developed over years. Right? But when he came to me, and I think it's in the book Rocket Fuel, by the way. So I don't know if it was original thought or not.

We'll give it to him since I can't be certain. Mhmm. But he came to me and said, hey. Listen. For for this thing to truly work, I want you to know how much I trust you.

That if we have a vehement disagreement, we just can't come to terms, and it's about the operations of the business, you get the final say. Dude, how could I say no to that? Yeah. He knows that a 100% of me is committed to what's best for him and his family. He just knows that.

That's who I am. That's a relationship we have. That's what I did for any anyone. But for him to say, I trust you so I believe that so much in you, and I believe that you're probably better at the role I'm hiring you than I am myself Mhmm. For him to say that, what else could you ask for as an employee?

Steve: Right. Yeah. It's obviously very empowering, gives you full faith, and you want to rise up to that challenge. Yeah. Has there come a time where you have to exercise that?

Chris: No. I'm sure he's gonna, like, pick out some terrible shirts one of these days, and I'm gonna do him a favor. But no. No, man. It's not it'll happen.

Yeah. It always does.

Steve: Alright. Oh, it's it's bound to happen.

Chris: I I mean, it should. Right? Yeah. Otherwise, we're probably not pushing hard enough.

Steve: Absolutely. So you had made the comment earlier that you're not a big fan of Dave Ramsey, or you were a big fan. That's past tense. So you wanna dive deeper into that.

Chris: Alright. So, I mean, Dave Ramsey certainly fills a a big, role in this country, frankly. Mhmm. And I, you know, I don't know if you are you Dave fan? Have you studied familiar with him?

Yeah.

Steve: I went I went through there was a time where I was really terrible with money

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: You know? And it was,

Chris: FPU?

Steve: Yeah. There's Financial Peace University, and then there was, entrepreneur entreleadership.

Chris: Yep.

Steve: And then there was another one about the financial makeover, think that's what it is.

Chris: Yep. So, you know, my wife and I have used the envelope system. Right? I mean, I I literally used to make $80 a week. That's all I got.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: My wife paid me $80 a week. No matter what my what my w two said, Chris made $80 a week. So I've been there, done that. Yeah. Another thing most folks don't know about me is I left corporate America for a short time to start a business on personal financial education Oh.

To serve the underserved. Got it. It was very passionate to me. I made a lot of poor decisions financially when I was younger.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And my father-in-law, kindest man in the world, politely handed me a book, essentially, Money for Dummies. Didn't say anything. Just said, oh, I saw this the other day. I thought you might be interested. So

Steve: Not a you.

Chris: Not a you because you can't buy a mattress with your credit card, and so you had me buy it. So anyway, I get pretty passionate about this. So I've studied the snot out of Dave and and understand all of his core principles. But there is a point in time, that I disagree with him. Mhmm.

And paying off my house is one of those. There will be a time, or buying a house or rental property for all cash and not leveraging. Like, the math doesn't always line up with Dave. Yeah. He is really great for people who probably need some more emotional support Mhmm.

And a little bit of math help. But if you're a math purist, Dave's not there. Yeah. My wife and I have disagreements frequently. So

Steve: she's still a strong believer.

Chris: Dude, for her, money's emotional. Mhmm. I get it. Right? I mean, I totally get it.

I respect the snot out of it. It makes sense. For me, it is IJM. It's a saying in the office. It's just math.

Mhmm. Just math. Yeah. This interest rate is this. This opportunity is this.

Honey, I know you wanna pay this off, but if I if you give me that money here, I can go lend some money over here. I can do this. I can do that.

Steve: Right.

Chris: She's like, but then we don't have the stockpile. I'm like, stockpile of making 0% right now, babe.

Steve: Yeah. And it's interesting. Feel good. Because we have that same exact conversation in our household. Right?

Like, my wife will feel better when there's this much money in the bank account. And I look at us, and we have that much money in the bank account. I'm doing something wrong. Right.

Chris: I gotta go leverage it. I gotta do something.

Steve: We gotta go invest it. We gotta do something with it. Right? So Yeah. Gotta invest it.

It's interesting how that all works. Alright. So we have, Gorillaz on YouTube. What KPIs is your company measuring? What what do you say are two or three most critical KPIs?

Chris: So high level for us is, a a term that we call CTU, cash tied up. Mhmm. So we talked about in scaling up, cash is one of the four, you know, major components of that book. And I know that may not resonate with everybody in your audience, but you said you you know, you're a finance nerd. Right?

Steve: Yep.

Chris: So for us to scale and grow, and buy 300 assets next year, let's pretend we have, you know, a finite amount of money because we do. How much money is tied up in each of those assets? It's a big calculation. So for my forecasting that I'm gonna start doing, and I say, hey, Mark. I think we're going Northwest Arkansas 2022.

We should buy a 100 assets. It takes six months to rehab and blah blah blah blah blah. This is how much capital I need. Mhmm. CTU is one of the big ones for us Got it.

From a management level. And then, I mean, you can give all the acquisition ones way better than I can. Yeah. You're a pro there. Another one, and it's not necessarily a metric, but it's a mindset, that we look at on how how we sell our assets, is really highest and best use.

So we'll look at an asset pre acquisition and then right after acquisition and then post rehab and look at what our best exit strategy is, versus, you know, a lot a lot of less sophisticated operators say, we bought it as a flip. Therefore, it's a flip.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: We bought it as a flip. It penciled as a flip. Maybe it's a better turnkey

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: Today. And we stick in the machine, or maybe it's a better turnkey sold to, an institutional buyer. Mhmm. So though that's another thing we look at. I know that's not a KPI, but, you know, for me right now, everything is finance metrics.

My my director level team Mhmm. Is gonna be able to tell you impressions if it's marketing and if it's, you know, acquisitions, it's contracts, or appointment conversion rate, or all those things.

Steve: So you're raising capital. Mhmm. And then you're using that when you're talking about cash tied up, you know, for example, 47 k in the rehab for turnkey. Yeah. That's coming from 47,000 that was borrowed earlier from a different lender from a from a private lender.

Is that accurate?

Chris: No. So at this stage, Mark is a genius at utilizing traditional financing. Mhmm. So, we have somewhere in the neighborhood of bank lines of, I don't know, $20,000,000 Mhmm. For operating, and buying assets.

So, you know, so we'll go ahead and we'll buy that thing. We'll put a construction loan on it. We'll see it through the process. But as we have scaled, we have looked at different opportunities. So some of them might be using an anchor loans Mhmm.

Which we traditionally haven't had to do. But as you scale, you need to look at other resources. So what from cost of capital, which is a metric we used to think was really important.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And don't get me wrong. It matters. But access to capital is way more important now. Yeah. Right?

Steve: Yeah. Well, that's the bottleneck oftentimes.

Chris: That was the bottleneck. Yeah.

Steve: Cash. Oh, yeah. So cash, and now it's the access to capital.

Chris: Exactly.

Steve: Yeah. So you can't so yeah. It doesn't matter how much cash

Chris: and yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: You just can't scale.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. And then shock riddles on Facebook. How do you find reliable contractors for states that you don't live in? Which I think is a fantastic question.

Chris: That is a great question. It's like the most it's one I get asked all the time. Yeah. So COVID did us a really big favor. It did us a lot of favors.

It allowed us to realize we could scale our business. We could do things in in other markets. Because there I am sitting in Kansas City in my house, and we're rehabbing. We're buying assets, we're rehabbing, and we're property managing with no office. So why does it matter if I'm in Kansas City or Montgomery, Alabama, Northwest Arkansas, Wichita, Kansas, wherever.

Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Because we had really great partners.

Steve: Right.

Chris: So we were able to leverage, and form relationships with some of the larger national retailers retail rehabbers. Mhmm. Guys who were working for the Zillow's of the world, that when COVID happened said Yeah. No more rehab. And those guys were looking for somebody to work with.

Mhmm. So we got a blessing there. And we work with a company based out of here, called Tricor, and they have been a fantastic business partner for us. And they have we have proven concept with them. We've proven to be a really good customer.

We don't do the Zillow $12,000 rehab. We do the $47,000 rehab. So, they like us for that. Mhmm. We pay timely.

We treat them fairly, which is an amazing thing.

Steve: Right.

Chris: As we have worked with them and others, one of the things payment terms is one thing. Right? And revenue per deal is one thing. But what what I keep hearing from our large scale contractors is that we treat them well. Isn't that weird?

Yeah. Just treating these guys well. In a time when we didn't have to, they had no other choice but really work with us. When we treat them with dignity and respect through this whole thing, they want to grow with us.

Steve: Oh, I mean, especially after they got cut Yeah. By all these Wall Street companies.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: The moment things get hard, they got cut. They're gonna remember that you were there right when they got cut, and you're nice.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And and they've seen you know? And and it's not lost to me that we have, the reason our banking relationships have flourished, the reason our construction, we have honored our commitments. We've made up we make we make our numbers.

We make our financial numbers. Yeah. So we get committed, and we tell somebody we're going here and we're gonna do well here. They're gonna come with us.

Steve: Absolutely. Michelle on Facebook wants to know, she just closed on three turnkeys. How does she get in contract with your team?

Chris: Best way to reach out to our team, sales at s b d housing dot com.

Steve: Perfect. And then Matt Love was asking the same question. How can they do deals with your team? So same thing. Jeremy wants to know on YouTube, how do you find your hires?

Well I get the part that you have a recruiter, but what does she do?

Chris: Yeah. They just magically show up in my conference room after they've been screened,

Steve: Steve.

Chris: So yeah. So we use a a source called WiseHire, which data integrates a lot of the other sources. You and I were talking about this. So that's a bit that's just one part of it. Right?

Mhmm. It's the job description that's probably more important, and then the ability to respond quickly. But it's not it's not sexy. It's wise hire.

Steve: Yeah. And then how much active recruiting? You know, because something that we talked about is, for better or for worse, the people that are on Indeed and so on that are looking for jobs are the ones that did not make it at their previous situation. Right? Often, if they're they're either available for hire today or they're pretty darn close to quitting wherever they're at.

Chris: Right.

Steve: And they're unhappy. Right? And so the best people, though, are often already taken. So how is there anything your recruiter is doing to find quality people besides the traditional

Chris: postings? I mean, I think we can listen to and read the same kind of content. Right? And the best way is to go pilfer somebody who's not looking. Looking.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: I agree. We're still a business of 30 people. Yeah. And we will use referrals and those things. No.

We're we have yet to get to that point. I can tell you for a couple key hires, the the team will be getting ready to do that soon. Yeah. But it's been unnecessary. I think the job market it's an interesting job market.

Right? I mean, very interesting.

Steve: Right? That's the most interesting thing I've ever.

Chris: You and I could talk about. That could be a whole another podcast. Yeah. But what I can tell you aside from, you know, some of the perspective negative is, people are looking to be happy. Mhmm.

And people are looking to leave jobs.

Steve: They are.

Chris: So if you're out there and you can speak to them and you can provide them a good, impression of your business, I think you can do well.

Steve: That's a great point because there are a lot of people quitting than ever before.

Chris: It's amazing. I I mean, if you would meet in the talent that is in our organization, that we have brought on in the last two years, it's it's pretty scary. It's not like just this little mom and pop business in Blue Springs, Missouri. We've got some very talented people in our organization Yeah. From the maintenance team all the way up.

And they've come to us because they were unhappy, but we were there. You know, I guess what I would say too, Steve, is, hiring is like a pain in the ass. Right? Mhmm. Nobody likes doing it.

Therefore, they suck at it. Get good at it. Get excited about it. Invest time and energy. Boy, you'll be good at it.

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah. It's one of those things just like so many of the things in our business that we don't wanna do. But if you want to win and you want to scale the right way, you have to learn it or hire someone else who's good at it. What is your why?

Chris: You know, it's interesting. Like, I've been I knew you're gonna ask me that. Right? Mhmm. And I've been pondering it and, for, like, literally weeks now.

I'll give you my business one first. I had this opportunity and made a commitment to Mark and Sarah Beth that I would come on and help them grow their business. It's something that they would be continually proud of. Mhmm. And it was gonna allow me to get out of corporate, and put my stamp on something.

That's a and do it and select the people that I wanna do it with for years to come. I was having, breakfast with Dustin Manger today. Mhmm.

Steve: And he

Chris: and I were actually talking about this. My wife's I wanna I wanna impact people's lives. There's people in our business that I wanna see their their daughter go to college. I know the SPD can do that. Mhmm.

From a business standpoint, that's it. It's not about money. It's not about a thousand houses. It's not about $30,000,000 going into a fund and all these other things that we're gonna do. That's fine.

That's great. Don't get me wrong. But it's people. And for a guy who doesn't wanna talk to people, it's all about the people. Yeah.

Personally, dude, I'm so fortunate. I married way out of my league to the most positive person in the world, and she's blessed me with two amazing daughters. That is my ultimate why, is to help those two girls achieve whatever it is that they want and do it by being and be a good person and drive value to society. Yeah. Because in the end, I can have a portfolio of assets.

But if I don't have a wife who lived a great life that was connected to me, and I don't have two daughters who grew up to be happy at whatever it is they choose Mhmm. What the hell is the point in the end? Right?

Steve: Right. Yeah. I don't think it's a good point. I mean, it's something I'm having, having my vision is the, having girls that are contributing members of society Yeah. But are not just happy, but, having, what's the word I'm looking for?

They're happy with themselves. Right? You know, they're happy within their own bodies. It's not just the

Chris: So hard, dude. Just wait.

Steve: I know. I know. Just wait. Right? But just having, having daughters, having kids that are are will grow to be responsible human beings that are are well balanced and and so on.

That's that's the vision. We'll see what happens.

Chris: Gonna happen. You know, it's funny. This came up at church on Sunday. We're going through this thing on parenting and all this stuff. Anyhow, the pastor was talking about it's okay if your kids hate you.

When your kids hate you, periodically, of course, at a young age, then you're doing the right thing. Yeah. My daughters absolutely know that they're loved because I don't take mediocre on the way they treat people or how they treat themselves or the way they attack problems.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's great. The I remember my daughter was asking me for something. I said, no.

We're not doing we're not doing that. And she says, her retort to me and she's quick. Her retort to me was, isn't it the parents' job to make their kids happy? And I kinda looked at her like, no.

Chris: No. I'm like, what

Steve: are you talking about? Right? Like, I don't know where you got that idea from, but, no. Absolutely not. Yeah.

How do you stay motivated?

Chris: You know, I born. I mean, there's no good Mhmm. Answer. I hate mediocrity. Like, it drives me crazy.

I'd rather suck at it than be mediocre. And if I suck at it, I probably won't do it. I think I'm competitive. You know? Mark and I were talking about this.

I'm uber competitive. I've never had any never had a need to be motivated. I I just wake up ready to go. I I'm fortunate in that way. I I wish I could give you a great answer.

Steve: Yeah. Well, you know, as we were, going through this training yesterday as a group in our office, and, one of the things they talk about is difference between people that are successful in their careers, versus those that are not is that when adversity strikes, how can I win next time? How can I be better? Mhmm. Whereas those that are mediocre or below average is that that's just the way life is.

And that's it. That's their answer.

Chris: Problems are great because you learn from them.

Steve: Right. Well, I think that's the mindset. Right? And I think the people that's the mindset. It's definitely consistent amongst our circles, people that we know.

But now

Chris: people that you and I know, they do not take failure as an option. God, they don't even talk about it.

Steve: Yeah. It was interesting. I actually had someone, you know, that asked. We had a meet up. They're like, why don't you guys talk about your failures?

And for me, it's like, because I already moved past them.

Chris: Like I've learned from them.

Steve: I learned from them.

Chris: Going on.

Steve: And then they were deleted. Right? Kept the lessons, deleted the loss.

Chris: That's also the visionary. But, yeah. I'm with you.

Steve: So then what is your biggest struggle today?

Chris: It's it's the balance. Right? It's the commitment to all these things. So I give it my all when I'm at SBD. I do.

I just I don't work, but I'm there an awful lot. Mhmm. And I'm and I'm expending a tremendous amount of energy. So it's the transition and giving it all, walking in the door to these three ladies at my house Mhmm. And given it all to them.

And that has been that is my biggest struggle. Have I figured it out yet? No. I'm not. I mean, it's hard.

Steve: What are you trying to to do?

Chris: I listen to my wife ish. I try to be present. I'm getting better. I will leave I leave my problems Mhmm. At the office, and I will not talk about work at home.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: But I can't stop thinking about it.

Steve: Yeah. I know. I get that too.

Chris: Like, I'm not gonna talk about work. I don't talk about work, with my wife anymore. But, man, I you you just see me looking at something, and you know I'm thinking about, gosh, if we could just get this done faster, this done different. So I don't know I don't know the answer, Steve. I really don't.

It'd be interesting. If you got the answer, I am here to consume it.

Steve: I don't know if I have the answer. I just know that, it's easier when I put my phone away. Like, not, like, in my pocket, but, like, put it somewhere else. So, like, when I get home, you know, charge my phones over there, and it's easier, I don't know, just having their phone before they're away.

Chris: When we lived here in Arizona, I would I had them install a, outlet in our closet Mhmm. Our pantry. I come home and plug it in right there. Yeah. And our house in Kansas City, I don't.

Yeah. Maybe I will have them do that. Yeah. Yeah. Out of sight, out of mind.

Right?

Steve: Right. And now I'm not even thinking about it. Some people get annoyed, but it's what I have to do. What is your superpower?

Chris: You know, you can call it accountability. Like, I am such a believer in it. Mhmm. And I, you know, I kinda asked a couple people, and it but it came back to it. Mark's like, it's your tenaciousness, your competitiveness.

I'm like, and then I asked one of the other people on the team. I was like, what do you think? And and her answer was, you never let, like, anything but really, really good go. If I bring you a issue and I say, hey. I think this is how we solve it.

You push me because you know that I probably haven't dug deep enough. Mhmm. I'm holding her in this instance that counsels with the best outcome, maybe the best version of herself. Mhmm. I hold myself to relatively good level accountability.

My wife holds me to a high level of accountability, and I appreciate it. Yeah. So I just think it's you know, if you boil it all down, there's two words that really, really resonate with me. Authenticity. I wanna be authentic.

I don't want anybody to have misgivings on me acting like somebody else, and I wanna be with people who aren't authentic. Right? So I think it's a commitment to being authentic and holding others and being willing to be held accountable is ends up with this.

Steve: Yeah. No. I I think that's great. And it's it's not a superpower a lot of people have, and I think it's it's super critical. Right?

It's the reason why you guys are able to be as, creating as the output that you guys have been able to create. Is there a lesson greatest lesson you have learned?

Chris: You know, I've talked about it, man. Whatever it is, it's about people. Mhmm. We can process. We can raise money.

We can do all these things. The lesson I've learned through my career and most of it is through actually, the the biggest lessons I learned are from the people that that do the wrong things. I can name more stories about bad managers and bad leaders and bad friends and all of those things. But in the end, it's just about the lesson is simple. Just treat people well.

Be honest with them. Yeah. And just live into it, man. I I don't know any I mean, I got nothing grand here.

Steve: It's such a simple lesson, but easy to overlook.

Chris: Hard to do.

Steve: Hard to do and easy to overlook. Is there a failure? Favorite best or most interesting failure that you've experienced?

Chris: Oh, goodness. How funny is that? No. No? I mean, I made a thousand of them.

Steve: Right.

Chris: But I've already moved on from, like you said. I mean, I would love to give you some have we bought a house we shouldn't have bought? Yeah. We do that. I've I made some mistakes on rehab a 100%.

Mhmm. No, man. I've you know, I I could look at some things in my personal life that I probably could've chosen to different or better. But I'm a pretty unapologetic person because Alright. There's nothing I would change because I'm happy to be who I am today.

Steve: Right. We wouldn't be who we are today. Yeah. Is there a book you've gifted more than any other?

Chris: It's funny. You can laugh at this. The book that we gift the most, What the Heck is US?

Steve: That makes sense.

Chris: Sadly. I mean, there's lots of good books out there.

Steve: Best of the team or outside the team?

Chris: In the team. Outside of the team, Richest Man in Babylon is probably a book that I've given out the most. But no. I, I'm not a good giver.

Steve: Well, I think that's a profoundly impactful book, though. Right? I mean, that's kinda in line with your time when you're trying to start your business about financial, peace. Right? Not sure that's a word you use, but helping people manage their finances.

I mean, that is the book. And what's crazy is I didn't know into that book that if you didn't pay your debts, you were sold to slavery. I had no idea. That's That's how things are done in the past. My goodness.

Yeah. Yeah. You have very good reasons to not get into debt.

Chris: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Back then. Alan, you could argue it's similar today.

Steve: It's similar today. We actually were we did a whole bunch of memes on Squid Game. Right? It was that.

Chris: I haven't seen that yet. I will probably, catch a couple episodes, on the flight home. Yeah.

Steve: So you can watch Squid Game, and then you can package that with bat riches of man in Babylon, and they they go hand in hand. Perfect. So think think about something you wanna leave the listeners with. While I make a couple of quick announcements. Guys, if you guys got value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment.

We got 14 likes. I think we can get a little bit more. The more we tell the algorithms is good content. The more people we'll reach, the more people we will impact. We do have our all day sales training in just a couple of days.

If you guys haven't signed up yet, it's the last time we're gonna have it at $39.97. Guys don't buy now. This is not a gimmick. We are actually raising the prices, so don't wait. And then next week, we got Eddie Speak coming to town.

Chris: Oh, that'll be super fun.

Steve: That is gonna be a very entertaining

Chris: slow it down. I don't know how you get the audience to hear.

Steve: I don't know. We'll we'll see how it goes. But I love a challenge, and I'm not gonna be able to contain him. I'm not gonna be able to reign him in. Right?

We're just gonna

Chris: have him talk. Getting interviewed. Yeah. That'll be interesting.

Steve: It'll be a lot of fun. So how any last thoughts you wanna leave the listeners with?

Chris: Yeah. You know, we you asked me to come here and talk a little bit about scaling. Scaling is not for everybody. It doesn't have to be. You know?

You and I were talking about this. I had lunch with somebody today who has a beautiful business Mhmm. And is happy. Yeah. Happy.

No interest in scale. No need to scale. Mhmm.

Steve: So you

Chris: don't have to. So it's a popular word. Mhmm. Don't do it unless you want to. And if you're gonna do it, do it with the right thing in mind and make sure that you're thinking about the people around you.

Otherwise, don't do it. That's all I really got on that.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's a great point. And I think that, you know, I'm not one to push other people's products, but, I mean, Gary Harper does a great job of this. Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: You can either stay in level three in viability, or you can go to five. I don't know what's called scaling or empire or whatever. But you don't have to go through four, which is kinda a little bit of a barren wasteland unless you really wanna get to five. If you don't really need to get to five, three is really three is a really good life. Four sucks.

One and two sucks. Three is good. Four is awful. Five is great. But you have to have a purpose to to suffer that.

Chris: Yeah. Do what I mean, in the end, scale for what?

Steve: Exactly.

Chris: Gotta know your why.

Steve: Gotta know your why. Perfect. How can someone get a hold of you?

Chris: Easiest way to hear anything about me or the company and, anything we can do to help somebody is just sales at sbdhousing.com. It's the easiest way, and the team will know how to connect either me or, one of the executive team with somebody. Or, you know, if you're interested in in wholesaling product to us, you can just go to sbdwholesale.com, and learn a lot more about our business there.

Steve: Awesome. Thank you very much.

Chris: Steve, pleasure, sir.

Steve: Absolute pleasure. Thank you guys for watching.