Matt Rostosky shares how he built a $5 million wholesaling business using nationwide PPC and novations after pivoting from local belly-to-belly deals. He discusses his journey from industrial maintenance to real estate, the importance of mentorship, and scaling through virtual teams across 48 states.
Nationwide PPC campaigns are more cost-effective than local ones due to less competition and lower cost per lead in secondary markets
Adding novations to your wholesale process can double your average deal size by selling to retail buyers instead of just cash buyers
Building a virtual team with overseas acquisitions specialists can maintain quality while significantly improving profit margins
1:55:06Josh Stech, founder of LendingHome and Sundae, shares how he built a billion-dollar real estate lending company in just five years, scaling to 14% market share. He discusses the venture capital playbook, hiring at scale, maintaining culture with 500+ employees, and his transition to solving the property sourcing problem for investors through Sundae's marketplace model.
1:47:49Tommy Mello, founder of A1 Garage Door Service, shares his journey from massive debt to building a billion-dollar company. He discusses critical business lessons including the importance of systems, hiring for attitude over experience, and how he scaled from a local garage door business to a nationwide operation that sold for $570 million.
Get a free AI-powered review of your sales calls. See exactly where you're losing deals and how to fix it.
Get notified when new episodes drop, plus a free AI call review.
Having multiple recruiters (both full-time employees and freelancers) is essential for scaling to high-volume deal flow
Firing yourself from operational roles systematically (acquisitions first, then dispo, then TC) allows you to focus on highest-leverage activities
”“I think I'm living proof that, like, you don't have to be, like a genius or, like, super talented to have a successful wholesaling business.”
”“Novations was the answer to not having any any cash buyers in Pocono, Texas.”
”“Just being stubborn enough to keep going, really.”
”“It's a whole different whole different ballgame when you have homeowners that are bidding, like, $20.30 k over what what your asking price is.”
Cash Offer Kentucky
Matt Rostosky is a real estate wholesaler and owner of Cash Offer Kentucky who transitioned from industrial maintenance to full-time real estate investing. He started wholesaling as a side hustle in 2016-2017 while working at factories, eventually leaving his job with just $7,000 in the bank to pursue wholesaling full-time. He has built a successful wholesaling business through driving for dollars, bandit signs, and skip tracing strategies.
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Matt Rostosky: I think I'm living proof that, like, you don't have to be, like a genius or, like, super talented to have a successful wholesaling business. I think a lot of people would probably wanna know that that, like, it's it doesn't take anything super special
Steve Trang: to be able to do this, but
Matt: it does take hard work. So, yeah, I was never the most, like, talented or anything like that. I knew I could work hard and I was willing to put in the hours, especially before I had a wife and a little one. I was putting in all kinds of hours. But anybody willing to to put in the work and actually, like, hey, the mentors, just pay what it costs.
Mhmm. It'll be worth it in the end.
Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors. Today, we have Matt Rostovski with Cash Offer Kentucky. And Matt flew in from Louisville, Kentucky talked about how he did 5,000,000 in sales last year and is on pace to double it this very year. Guys, I want a mission to create a 100 millionaires.
The information on this show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire. In the next five to seven years, if you'll take consistent action, you'll become one. And, guys, if you get value out of today's show, please share this episode. That way we can all grow together. You ready?
Matt: Sure. Let's do it. Alright.
Steve: So, first question is, what was your life like right before you got into real estate?
Matt: Awesome. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show, Steve. I've always been a huge fan
Steve: Thank you.
Matt: Of your show. I first started getting into this show actually around the the Nick Perry episode.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: And, I listened to his his episode while I was jogging. Mhmm. And this Nick Perry guy was was talking about doing nationwide PPC, and, and that was the first time I ever heard of that concept Mhmm. Of doing nationwide. And so, and so I was like, oh, man.
That's really cool. And then, I was like, I hope I can one day do good enough to make an appearance on on Steve Trang's podcast. That's awesome. And here I am. So it was cool.
Yeah. But back to your question. So what was I doing before wholesaling? That was your question. Right?
Right. Well, before wholesaling, I guess we can we can rewind it all the way back to, you know, I'm an older guy and 36 years old. So, I graduated high school in 2007 and, went to college just like everybody else in my hometown. Mhmm. Hometown is in Lexington.
And then, I, you know, I graduated college and, I tried a lot of different jobs and I was in and out of just kinda different careers. Mhmm. I couldn't really find anything that that stuck super well. And, and plus, I just make, like, a terrible employee anyway. So
Steve: Really?
Matt: Yeah. I'm not a very good employee at all. So that's why I, I decided to, pick up on wholesaling. But, yeah, I was actually I was working at, I was working in industrial maintenance, in Kentucky. Like, there's a lot of factory stuff going on.
And, and so, my job was to fix the robots. Like, they were, the robots were building these, circuit boards and things that are supposed to go into cars.
Steve: Right.
Matt: And, and while I was in industrial maintenance, I heard about, I heard about, like, wholesaling because I was actually in the market to buy a house. I was just looking for a house to to buy.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: And and I I heard about wholesaling because there was these guys on Facebook. They were like, hey. I got a great deal. It's for sale. Mhmm.
And, and it confused me because these guys weren't, real estate agents or didn't appear to be real estate agents. Right. So I, I would, like, message some of these guys. Mhmm. I didn't know they were called wholesalers at the time.
Right. But, I would say, hey. I'm interested in your deals. What's going on with it? And then, like, I one of them I asked is, like, hey.
Are you, are you a real estate agent? Or and he's like, no. You don't have to be
Steve: a real estate agent. It's a wholesale. Mhmm. And I was like, oh, okay. It's interesting.
I didn't know that. Right.
Matt: But, but, yeah, I started learning more about wholesaling. Mhmm. You know, once I, like, started to pick the brands of a couple wholesalers, this was around, like, 2016, 2017, something like that.
Steve: Did you buy one of those deals?
Matt: No. I didn't buy any deals from the wholesalers, but, I I couldn't have any way. I was I was approved for, like, a conventional financing. So they would have probably just laughed laughed me out the door. Mhmm.
But Well, they
Steve: could have done RVP if they'd known it.
Matt: Yeah. They could have done RVP if they'd known that that was
Steve: the thing. Okay. So alright. So you're you're looking at this. You're you're you're you end up buying a house traditionally, right, with a real estate agent?
Matt: Yeah. Well, actually, I, I was under contract to buy a house that year, and then, unfortunately, my my job fell through. And so I lost the the financing.
Steve: Oh, jeez. Okay.
Matt: Yeah. I was gonna buy a duplex. I was gonna do the house hack thing.
Steve: Right.
Matt: And then and then, yeah, the the job fell through. The so the contract fell through. I I couldn't close. And and I ended up moving from Lexington to Louisville for a different job.
Steve: Got it.
Matt: Yeah. And then Louisville, I started, learning more about wholesaling because I was like, oh, this this wholesaling thing, I can do it on the side, you know, because I can do industrial maintenance, you know, in the daytime and at nighttime. I can I can look into this wholesaling thing and put the bandit signs out and all that stuff?
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So what, what compelled you to make the jump into actual real estate? Like, what was the the thing that made you stop doing the industrial? Or were you just doing it on the side?
Matt: At first, I was just doing it on the side, but the goal was always to eventually do it full time.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Because, I I knew I didn't like, working in in factories and stuff, and, I didn't like holding a traditional full time job. And, it was lots of in my line of work, it was lots of overtime, lots of weekends, lots of holidays, lots of weird hours, you know. So it
Steve: was really hard to even do a side hustle.
Matt: Yeah. So hard to do a side hustle even. But, but, yeah, I I just kinda wanted to to do my own thing and just kinda be what they call financial free financial freedom is what I was looking for.
Steve: So So Tell me about your first deal.
Matt: Yeah. So my first deal, it actually came from, it came from a bandit sign.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So, yeah, I had these, bandit signs out, and then, I was I put out a ton of them. I I finally got a call, from my band and sign, and, and then I I went to this guy's house. He was an older guy, and, he was selling, like, a a two bedroom house. And, remember I got it under contract for, like, for, like, $60.65 k or something. And, I I got it under contract too high for that area at the time.
And I I was, like, trying to sell it to these cash buyers. They didn't want it. Right. And, I had to I had to renegotiate, and then the cash buyer that actually ended up buying it from me, I found this cash buyer from Craigslist. She ended up cutting me out of the deal.
Steve: Oh, wow.
Matt: And, she went straight to, to this homeowner and she, she closed with him. And but luckily, like, the homeowner had been working with me for, like, three months because I was so bad at, like, get trying to get this deal sold.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And, I had so many people over there. And I think the the homeowner felt so sorry for me that he gave me, like, two k
Steve: Oh, wow.
Matt: From his proceeds. So
Steve: That's awesome.
Matt: Yeah. That was pretty neat. That's incredible.
Steve: That's incredible. Okay. So you found a deal, banded signed, did not do so well, bought it too high, had to renegotiate
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: And you successfully got renegotiated.
Matt: Yeah. And then
Steve: you got cut out anyway.
Matt: Yeah. And I got cut out. Yeah.
Steve: So was that, like, this like, demoralizing, discouraging, or you're like, alright. Screw it. Like, on to the next one.
Matt: Yeah. I mean, it was discouraging, but I was I was really happy, when I got paid because I I had a really good rapport with this this homeowner.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And I, you know, I told him, like, hey. I'm just gonna try and make two k off this. So I was pretty upfront in the beginning. Mhmm. And then, and then he when when this lady cut me out, like, I think he he didn't feel right about it.
And so he so he met me at his house to pay me. He's like, hey. We closed. You know, come get your money. Yeah.
And, he's I think he thought I was a realtor, but he was like, yeah. I I told the lady that I need to go pay my realtor.
Steve: That's awesome. And then so I'm like, whatever works, man. Yeah. Sounds good.
Matt: So he meets me at his house, and he he pays me in, in, like, all cash, $2,000 Mhmm. In, like, you know, fives and tens. And so it's like a giant stack of cash.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: And I felt pretty cool at the time.
Steve: So I
Matt: was like, oh, yeah. This is cool because and plus, that was, like, the first, time I made money outside of my employer. Right? Mhmm. And so that was kinda
Steve: like
Matt: a really a really cool moment. Because before I I had just collected paychecks, from the different companies I worked for. But this time, I actually got to, receive money from something I did, like, as an entrepreneur. Mhmm. So even though it was only $2, it was it was a huge deal.
You know?
Steve: Oh, for sure. Then, you know, proof of concept was one of those things that, like, I don't think it's spoken enough of. Right? Like, once it happens, once it's real, now you have the confidence to go do it again.
Matt: That's right.
Steve: So what was your next deal like?
Matt: My next deal oh, yeah. My next deal was, this was actually after I I left my job. Mhmm. So I ended up, leaving that company I worked for. I I worked for Kellogg's.
It was actually the girl scout cookie plant in Louisville. But, yeah, after that job fell through, you know, I decided, okay. You know, I'm tired of going all these different jobs and moving around, and I just wanna work for myself. So, so, yeah, I had I had just $7,000 in my bank account, and I was like, alright. I'm doing it.
I'm gonna do wholesaling full time.
Steve: Right.
Matt: Nowadays, people would look at you like you got three heads if you said you're gonna wholesale full time with 7 k in your bank account. Yeah. But but, yeah, I was too naive to even understand, like, that you need lots of money to be a competitive wholesaler. So, so, yeah, what I did was I, I used, been verified, to look up phone numbers, and I used, I used deal machine. Mhmm.
Steve: And, and that was
Matt: pretty much it. Just been verified in deal machine.
Steve: Just driving for dollars.
Matt: So, yeah, just driving for dollars. Yeah. Driving for dollars. And and then instead of using deal machines, like automatic send a postcard feature they had, I would just plug the address, the homeowner's name into been verified. Mhmm.
Steve: Give
Matt: them a call, and I'd keep, like, a big spreadsheet of it. Yeah. But, but, yeah, I called, I called a few people, and then, I got this one guy that said, he was interested, in talking more about my, you know, my offer on his house. And so, he invited me to to come by and, and meet him with his maintenance guys. And, and, actually, I was in, I was in Korea, the, you know, Kentucky Real Estate Investors Association.
And Okay. This, yeah, this, this girl, Ace, she offered to, to go to the appointment with me because, you know, I'm newer. She's more experienced.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And so she, she took me, she went with me to this appointment and stuff, and, and she kinda helped me close because I was I come from, like, a, industrial maintenance background. I'm not I wasn't closing anything.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So, so her expertise was, like, a big help, especially in the very beginning.
Steve: So For sure.
Matt: So I got to see kind of how how she displayed, like, confidence and stuff and that sort of thing. And, and so she she would help close the, this deal. And, it was so long ago. I don't even know what we got under contract for. Yeah.
But, I think we made, like, I think we actually made, like, eight k on it or something, and so we split, like, four apiece.
Steve: Got it. Okay. So band design for the first deal. Second deal, drive for dollar, skip tracing.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: At this point, you now closed two deals. This feels real?
Matt: Yeah. For sure.
Steve: It's a real business now.
Matt: Feels like it's a real business.
Steve: Okay. So when did it get good?
Matt: I'd say probably got good. We'll start to feel like, hey. I could I I can actually maybe make a career out of this. Mhmm. It was towards the, it was actually the the wintertime of, of 2018.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: It was close to Christmas. Christmas is notoriously dead for real estate wholesaling. But there was a guy I found, driving for dollars. He was, we believe he was a drug addict. Like, he his house was super nice, but the but the house he lived in was just totally falling apart Yeah.
And in shambles. And he had, like, torn up the drywall and, like, just things like you would have no idea how somebody would would do that to their house. So and he, like, dug holes in the front yard.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: And, but, anyways, we got we got his house under contract for, like, way cheaper than it was worth, like, 30 k.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And then, we resold it for, like, I believe it was like 62 ish. Mhmm. Or no, it was actually like 65. And so, and so, yeah, we made, we made 35 k, sell it to a cash buyer. And, and so we split, like, you know, over 17 k a piece.
You know, me and Ace did. And, and so that was the most money I had at one time, like, in one sitting, like, before. So I was like, oh, man, this is this is legit. Like Right. This is actually a way that I can make money Yeah.
And make good money. You know?
Steve: So what adversities did you face
Matt: Oh, yeah. On
Steve: the beginning of your journey?
Matt: Well, lots of, like, not having enough money Mhmm. And lots of, you know, lots of late nights and, yeah, lots of just, like, having no idea what I'm supposed to be doing Mhmm. And just being lost. Right. And, and luckily, I had I had a lot of friends along the way help me Mhmm.
In my early wholesaling journey. But, actually, there was there is one point where, you know, my bank account was getting pretty low. And, I, I called this girl, Savannah. I met her in one of these wholesale, wholesaling groups. And, I told her, like, oh, man.
I'm struggling in wholesaling. I'm not getting deals. That sort of thing. And, and she actually gives me the, like, a a username and password to log in to Sean Terry's Flip to Freedom account.
Steve: Mhmm. Great.
Matt: So I pirated Sean Terry's Flip to Freedom Academy.
Steve: Right. Perfect. You and me.
Matt: Yeah. Zero Yeah. Didn't pay a dime. And, Does he know this? No.
He but he does now. He does now. But, but the funny thing is I I used the knowledge in there to to, like, get much better at wholesaling, And I eventually built up my funds enough to be able to, like, you know, to actually buy his academy for real Mhmm. And, and pay for his mastermind. Right.
I paid for his mastermind for, like, the last three, four years in a in a row, so joke's on me.
Steve: Yeah. He's made his money.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: So Yeah. Tight on cash, and then you basically just kinda have to hustle your way out of this hole, basically.
Matt: Oh, yeah. For sure.
Steve: And then getting Flip to Freedom Academy, was, like, back in 1819?
Matt: Yeah. This would have been around, like, I wanna say 2019.
Steve: 2019. And that was enough to kinda, like, give you the the push to really make it make it yourself out of this, situation.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: Okay. So now that you got this information, you got this going, what's next?
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Matt: So yeah. Now I've I've got the information, and I've I've gone through, like, all these courses and stuff. Mhmm. Now I'm able to to do what Sean Terry says to do on his academy, and I set up CallRail. And, and then I, I do, like, postcards with the the CallRail tracking number.
And, and then I do, like, the, the the appointment. I think he called it, like, the covert, special acquisitions appointment or something like that. You're supposed to do it with an iPad. I I didn't have an iPad. I couldn't afford an iPad at the time.
But I I tried to do it as much like Shontair as I could.
Steve: Yeah. What's the covert?
Matt: Yeah. You're this is like back when in person appointments were a thing. Mhmm. But you're supposed to you're supposed to go in person, and then you're supposed to, show, like, a PowerPoint presentation of your company and how it works. Alright.
And then in this PowerPoint, you're supposed to have, like, before and after pictures of, like, houses you rehabbed Mhmm. Or whatever. Yeah. And it's supposed to, like, make you look super professional. Mhmm.
But, yeah, I I I attempted to do, like, a version of that. Alright. Without the iPad, of course. Mhmm.
Steve: So it's a it's a presentation on on buying the house or or, I guess, making you the professional. Yeah. Easier to buy the house.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly. Gotcha.
Steve: Okay. So So,
Matt: yeah, you show up to the the homeowner's house and, yeah, you're, like, supposed to be the expert. Mhmm. And I didn't come off like an expert at all. Actually, most homeowners knew I had no idea, like, what I was looking at, you know. So Well, I
Steve: mean, you still made it.
Matt: If I still made it
Steve: You still have succeeded. So what do you attribute that to?
Matt: Yeah. Just being stubborn enough to keep going, really.
Steve: Right.
Matt: Yeah. So, so, yeah, we I did the in person belly to belly appointments and stuff like that. And, and, and again, I I took Ace to, like, a lot of appointments with me because me and Ace were still doing JV deals.
Steve: Gotcha. We j From from the real estate association?
Matt: Yes. From the RIA. Yeah. Yeah. The person, I met from the RIA, we kept doing deals together, because, because, again, like, her her background was sales.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So she had some she had, like, a sales background and stuff. I didn't. So, and so she got
Steve: finding the deals. She was locking them up. Were you going to the appointments?
Matt: Oh, yeah. For sure.
Steve: So you're still going? Yeah. I
Matt: was still going. Them up. Yeah. She was mostly locking them up. Sometimes she, like, give me a chance, like, hey.
Why don't you try to lock this one up? Okay. And sometimes, like, I would, but but, like, kind of, like, having her there gave me extra confidence because I knew that she had been doing it longer than me Yeah. And knew more about real estate.
Steve: So relationship with Ace end?
Matt: So, yeah, we parted ways in, twenty twenty twenty. Mhmm. So it was it was around, like, April or May 2020, something like that. So, so, yeah, we were splitting every single deal, and, and it was very hard to to grow the company, splitting every single deal fifty fifty. Mhmm.
And, and I think we we also had different ideas on on how we wanted to, run a a real estate business.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And so so we parted ways as friends.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And, you know, Ace still wholesales and and does well. And, and, yeah, I I started hiring people. Mhmm. And, and because I was starting to, you know, keep a 100% of the the wholesale fee and all that stuff, I was actually able to use that money to to hire, like, an acquisitions person.
Steve: Right.
Matt: So and so finally, I could afford an acquisitions person. Mhmm. Before splitting everything $50.50, we couldn't afford
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: You could have
Steve: had it's kinda hard to afford things. Sure. Okay.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: So, once you split up Mhmm. What challenges did you face? Because there are a lot of people that are I mean, I'm I'm looking at some people that might be listening that, like, are might be in partnerships that are afraid to end it. Mhmm. So what adversity do you have once you ended the partnership?
Matt: Well, now I had to find out, can I actually do this on my own? Like, can I I was doing it with a partner before Mhmm? And that was that was great, and that made me feel good, but now it's all on me. And so now I'm the only one to blame if this thing all comes crashing down. Right.
So so that was tough kinda just having that pressure weigh on me.
Steve: Right?
Matt: And, again, I don't come from a sales background, so I had to I had to show up on my own and actually, like, have the confidence or at least pretend like I had the confidence. Right. To close a deal Yeah. In person by myself. Okay.
So
Steve: I mean, obviously, that worked, but what were some and can you think of any scenarios like, man, like, I am butchering this. I made a mistake. Did you have doubts in in in in this journey?
Matt: Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. And that's why I I paid I was always paying for education and things like that. Yeah.
I went to actually this, this boot camp. It was called, like, blue blueprints, boot camp or whatever. Right. It was but it was for, like, belly to belly sales and stuff. Mhmm.
And, and so I I was able to kind of get some confidence from that, from that conference, from that training. Mhmm. And, and so, and so so from these trainings, like, in these boot camps I was going to, I was kind of able to to take that, momentum into the appointment Right. And kind of have some extra confidence, you know, in these appointments and stuff like that. But, but, yeah, I'm sure I was still I was still, butchering things here and there, but not as bad as, like, before when I was newer.
Steve: Yeah. But now you have the funds to buy to to to bring on acquisitions manager. Is that the first hire you made?
Matt: Well, I had a cold caller. I think, technically, it was a cold caller, was the first, was the per first person I hired. Yeah. And, I tried to set up my business like TTP says you should set it up with you're you're hiring your cold callers and your cold callers are getting you leads. Mhmm.
And so, so very first hire was a cold caller, from The Philippines, and he was on, the Mojo triple line dialer. Mhmm. And so every single lead pretty much came from him Got it. Unless it was direct mail. But, but, yeah, my, my first in person acquisitions hire, that came towards the 2020.
Mhmm. So, towards the 2020, I had I had done, like, I had several deals close. I had like five or six deals close, in a in a month or two. Yeah. And so, and so my my bank account, I had like 60 k, you know, extra in my account.
And I was like, Oh, this is great. You know, I've got some cushion. And so I use that to hire my first acquisitions person who's still with me today.
Steve: Awesome.
Matt: Ryan. So yeah, shout out to Ryan stone. He's he's great. Mhmm. And then, and then, actually, Ryan Stone, he he's still he actually has moved up into, like, management
Steve: Got it.
Matt: Sense. And so he, like, you know, he bought the vision early on, and he's kind of, like, moved up the ranks. That's great. So,
Steve: when do things, like, take off for you? Because, I mean, we're talking, like, some pretty big numbers right here. Right? Like, 5,000,000 last year.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: You're already down 1.1 this year, and, like, we've only finished two months in 2025, and you're hoping to double year over year. When did things take off for you?
Matt: Well, they started to take off, when I in 2021 after I decided to to end my in person, wholesaling Mhmm. Business. Like, I didn't wanna be local anymore. Mhmm. I had, I had people driving for dollars.
I had people cold calling. I was sending out postcards. And, and, yeah, the margins were just way too thin. So I I knew I had to completely, like, just get rid of that business. So so I let everybody go, that was driving for dollars for me.
I I had, like, five people driving for dollars. Let all them go. I had, like, you know, four cold callers. Let all them go. Mhmm.
And then so I let everybody go except for Ryan. He and he was actually
Steve: I mean, this is a not a u-turn, but this is an abrupt turn.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: There's a 90 degree turn. This is like, alright. We are this model we've been running that's given us success up to this point. By the way, we're doing everything different moving forward.
Matt: Yeah. Like, it was pretty much, like, totally, just flat in the sand castle and and start from scratch.
Steve: Yeah. That's what we were Pretty bold. Not everyone just changes everything, you know, in the middle. What gave you the confidence to do that?
Matt: Well, we tried some, from nationwide, wholesaling. Not a lot, but we did. I think we were just kinda playing around with it Mhmm. With getting, like, a, you know, a lead here, a lead there. And, we finally got one to close.
Ryan was able to to get it under contract. Mhmm. It was a deal in Mississippi. Yeah. And then, and then we were able to wholesale it and make, you know, like, 25 k.
Mhmm. And so and plus, there was all the there was a lot of support, at the time because you had Sean Terry's mastermind. Mhmm. Corey Gary had a mastermind of his own. Mhmm.
Nick Perry did.
Steve: Alright.
Matt: So, so I had the confidence that, so that it was working for for these guys. They were doing it. Plus, we had proof of concept that we get we were able to close a deal in Mississippi, and we'd never been to Mississippi before. So Right.
Steve: Okay. So having the right mentors in place Mhmm. That are doing what you want to do, that certainly helps. Mhmm.
Matt: And then
Steve: you have proof of concept again. We were talking earlier the importance of proof of concept. So Yeah. Having three people to guide you on nationwide PPC model and then proof of concept, give you all the confidence you need to make the sharp turn.
Matt: Yes. Exactly.
Steve: Perfect. So you do that. Tell me about that journey. So, like, when was this that you made this sharp turn?
Matt: Yeah. So it was after quarter one twenty twenty one. Okay. So it was going into 2021.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: And this was after, like, one of Sean Terry's meetings. And, yeah, at the time, I was paying my cold callers, like, $15 an hour. You're paying your
Steve: cold callers?
Matt: Yes. I'm paying yeah. Cold callers. Yeah. Exactly.
Steve: Wow. Okay. We have four or five of those.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. So, again, I mean, it was not a great business model.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So so it had to be broken down, and I Sure. I had to re restart.
Steve: So, when did you have, like was it like, you did this cold turkey switch and then boom, it just works? Or what what were some bumps along the way?
Matt: Yeah. I mean, I mean, we noticed that it was easier to to get properties under contracts nationwide because now we're talking to homeowners that, they don't have, like, everybody and their mother calling them trying to get a contract. Mhmm. So, so yeah. The we we noticed the contracts were easier, to some extent.
Yeah. But then the, the selling of the contracts was what was was tough. Right?
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Matt: Because now we're we have to sell a wholesale deal, to places we don't have any cash buyers in. And so, so we tried a few different things, that we learned from our masterminds and things like, we tried calling realtors to try and, see if they have cash buyers.
Steve: And we
Matt: we sold a couple like that. But we weren't making, like, a very big spreads yet. I mean, we were still making maybe $10.15 k Mhmm. From these off market wholesale deals nationwide. Right?
And then it it actually wasn't until, until novation started becoming a thing Mhmm. That we actually started making, like, really good money wholesaling. So, so Novations was the answer to not having any any cash buyers in Pocono, Texas. Right? Is that real estate in Pocono?
I don't know, probably.
Steve: Okay. Alright. So, so locking up deals a lot easier and then the adding, Novation. So and, like, it's funny. Like, I I'm in Phoenix.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: And, I think this is if it's not the most competitive, it's gotta be top three.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: And, you know, when we're doing a lot of cold calling, there were every homeowner knew the TTP script.
Matt: Mhmm. Right?
Steve: Like, they could repeat it word for word before you even finished it. Yeah. And I remember, like, I did a a competition with RJ Bates, and we were getting leads, I think, from Lead Zolo. No. It was from Aaron Bevins.
And, I was actually talking to people in Louisville.
Matt: Oh. All places. Okay.
Steve: And it was funny. I was as I was like, we we locked up, like, five houses on the phone there. And what's interesting to me was they were so darn nice. Right? They weren't rude.
Like, I'm just used to everyone being rude. Right? In Phoenix, I'm talking to you about buying your house. I just expect you to be rude. That's how jaded we've gotten in, with it.
But, we noticed in Kentucky and, Mississippi, everyone is so much nice in Alabama. Yeah. Everyone is so much nicer, than Phoenix. And then my own organization for a bit, we were doing nationwide as well. And then we were using Lead Zolo for that.
And we were locking up contracts left and right. But what you were saying, we have a we were having a hard time moving deals. It's a different animal. Right? Like, belly to belly, we can lock up these.
It's harder to lock them up. We do, but it's harder. But once you lock them up, it's pretty easy to move. Yeah. Nationwide, it's a lot easier to lock them up, but moving them is the challenge.
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Matt: Yeah. It was a total game changer. Where our average deal size basically doubled because we we went from making, like, 10 to 12 k to, like, now we're making, like, 22 to, to 30 k. Right? And it was yeah.
Like I said, total game changer because now we didn't have to have these, cash buyers on our cash buyer list Right. That we're depending on. Right? And, and now, I act what I actually like most about it is, we don't have to worry about getting getting lowballed as much because cash buyers, like, you know, they usually lowball the wholesalers. Right?
So because they want a deal. Right? They're they're flippers. But these are people that wanna actually live in the home. So Mhmm.
Steve: In
Matt: a lot of cases, especially, like, when when it was really hot of a market, like, in 2021, 2022, you have homeowners that are bidding, like, $20.30 k Mhmm. Over what what your asking price is.
Steve: Right? That's a good time.
Matt: So it's a whole different whole different ballgame.
Steve: Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. So in your innovation process so talk to me about what your organization looks like at this moment in time when you add Novation.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: So it's you, Ryan, you have more acquisition people or just Ryan?
Matt: Yeah. So we have, last I checked, I wanna say we have say
Steve: at this time when you add, Novations to the process.
Matt: Oh, at around 2021?
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: So, yeah, when we added, novations to the process in 2021, it was Ryan and, two other guys. Mhmm. Yeah. And, and, yeah, we they were Ryan was, he wasn't, like, a manager yet at at that point. He was just locking up deals like everybody else.
But, yeah, we had, like, three acquisitions guys, and then we had, we had one dispo person.
Steve: Right. And that one dispo person was finding all the cash buyers.
Matt: Yeah. Well, they, until we switched to novations, of course. Because once we switched to novations, we just started listing everything and finding buyers that way.
Steve: So were you guys using flat fee agents, or were you guys actually using realtors in these markets?
Matt: Mostly flat fee. Mhmm. Yeah. It's mostly flat fee, companies and then sometimes real estate agents if we can't find a a flat fee company.
Steve: So who's who's who's is it dispo then still running the deal with a flat fee agent's involved?
Matt: Yeah. Yep. Okay. Yeah. It's still dispo doing all the negotiation and all that stuff.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I think in this situation, dispo is grossly underrated. Mhmm. Like, for whatever reason, our industry acquisition is like the wide receiver.
Like, they get all the accolades, you know, the, I don't wanna say diva, but, like, you know, they get all the celebration, all the trophies. Right? Yeah. But Dyspo has to be good to move the deals. Like, no one's getting paid if Dyspo doesn't move the deals.
Matt: That's true. And I
Steve: think they're they're grossly underrated. So, once you went to Novations, I mean, how hard would was it easier or harder for a dispo person to manage the deal flow?
Matt: Well, it was, it was easier in the sense that they didn't have to wonder, like, did I contact enough cash buyers or not Mhmm. Type of thing. And when I did dispo myself, that was always in the back of my mind if we didn't sell a deal. Like, okay. Is it the deal or is it me?
Mhmm. Because there might be a cash buyer that that actually wants it, but I just haven't called them yet.
Steve: Right.
Matt: Right. So so just that, like, removing that unknown part of it, like
Steve: Sleep better.
Matt: Was better. It makes you sleep better. So because now they're all listed. Mhmm. And if it's not ideal, you know, you're no one's gonna want it.
Steve: You'll know pretty fast.
Matt: So it's pretty simple.
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: But, but, yeah, it was actually, in some ways, it was harder to, to manage, like, some of the especially the busier properties because, because at the time, we had one dispo person. Her name was Nicole, and, she had she had all these buyers and agents, like, calling her phone for we'd have, like, you know, twenty, thirty deals listed, and she's got all these all all these people calling her phone trying to get inside the property. And, and so it was it was stressful for her. And, and so, eventually, we we started hiring, dispo assistance. So, like, basically, virtual assistance Right.
That take these inbound calls and then get the the buyer agent the the law box code or the access instructions. Alright. And that way, the dispo person can just worry about negotiating. Mhmm.
Steve: The important stuff.
Matt: Yeah. The important stuff.
Steve: Yeah. That's one of the things I've I've heard people sometimes when they add novations to their processes that they weren't they didn't know it was gonna require a lot more administrative work.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: You get more money, but it takes longer, and you do probably more than double the work. Yep. Right? So just it's it's a point of consideration because I think it's you gotta do innovations. You do a nationwide PPC.
But just something to always, like, be aware of.
Matt: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. It was tough, especially when I when I was the one doing this book because yeah, you you have to fill out all the seller disclosure stuff and Mhmm. The listing agreement.
And it's just paperwork on top of paperwork. So and, salespeople don't like paperwork.
Steve: Salespeople don't like paperwork, and you gotta deal with every single brokerage and what their policy is. Every different title company explained Novation. So they've never done it before.
Matt: Oh, yeah. And that was that was fun too. It's like when we were trying to assign the deal, and then the buyer agent is like, oh, I don't know about this assignment stuff. I've heard that's illegal.
Steve: And then Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah.
Matt: And then, yeah, you lose your buyer and you gotta find a new one.
Steve: So So Alright. So you do this. This is the so the first pivotal change and, you know, again, kudos. Like, you made, like, some major major changes. Right?
So first pivotal change well, the first one's move moving away from your partner Mhmm. Completely changing your model Yep. And then adding novations. So it's, like, three pretty major significant changes in, like, not a very long period of time, like, within, like, eighteen months.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Right?
Matt: Yep. Mhmm.
Steve: Any other major pivotal changes?
Matt: Yeah. I mean, this is one I don't talk about a whole lot. But, but, yeah, we we started hiring more overseas people.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: We still have Americans on our team, and, the Americans are are still great performers with acquisitions and dispo and stuff. But we started hiring more overseas people, because we found that we can actually train, people in, like, The Philippines and Egypt and stuff to to help us with this virtual model. Mhmm. And so today, we have, you know, at least half of our guys are overseas on acquisition side. We've got guys from Pakistan, Egypt, Philippines, and and a lot of the some of them actually are doing, just as good, if not better than our American people.
Steve: So It's kind of wild. Mhmm.
Matt: Jacob Yeah. Jacob.
Steve: In Sean Terry's group. Mhmm. I was talking to him because, like, his entire business is virtual. Yeah. And I was talking to him.
I was like, I don't know. I don't know about this model. I'm not sure. Like, I know your numbers look really good, but I don't know. Right?
I'm just I'm skeptical. Yeah. And I had a chance to work with his team. Alright. So we're coaching his sales team.
Mhmm. And I cannot tell the difference.
Matt: Wow. Right?
Steve: Like, I'm listening to them. I was like, man, these guys are good. I know they're not American because I can see them on my screen. But if I couldn't see them on my screen, I wouldn't know that they're not American. Right.
It is wild how close that gap is Hell, yeah. Between non American and American on the phones.
Matt: Mhmm. Yeah. It is wild. And that's actually Jacob was the one that inspired me to kinda go more that direction. Mhmm.
Because, yeah, he's in Sean's mastermind as well. Yeah. And, like, most people and their KPIs show maybe, like, you know, 30% profit margin.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And then Jacob gets up there. He's he's, like, 75% profit margin.
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: And me and Sean are like, what in the world are you doing, man?
Steve: Right.
Matt: And so, so he actually, yeah, told us about his overseas strategy.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And he actually did a whole presentation one day telling us exactly how he does it. Mhmm. I, I don't do it Jacob's way. I well, we did it for a little bit temporarily. But, but it was still super helpful.
Steve: Mhmm. Okay. So the the fourth major pivot is now doing VAs.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. And, actually, I was having a conversation with, Nick Perry. I had lunch with him last week. Mhmm. And, yeah.
He was he was talking about how he's going to have two different teams, the Americans and the
Matt: non Americans. Oh, nice.
Steve: And he was like, he was gonna do everything he can to see if he can get the non Americans, to to beat
Matt: the Americans. Okay.
Steve: It's a crazy world. Crazy time.
Matt: It is a crazy time. Yeah. So, yeah, he's moved to Phoenix now to do, wholesaling is what I heard.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So he's he's gonna have a virtual team and and an in person team. That's what he's doing.
Steve: Yeah. I I don't know the exact details. I just know he's in Scottsdale. And, like, yeah. I was like, mate, this is crazy.
Wow. That's cool. Alright. So then 5,000,000. So you did 5,000,000 last year.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: It's a crazy number. Not a lot of people are are hitting those kinds of numbers. Right? A lot of people we have pretty happy to do, you know, one,
Matt: one half,
Steve: 2,000,000. Oh, yeah. So you have 5,000,000 revenue. What does your operation look like to be able to do 5,000,000 in revenue?
Matt: Yeah. That's an awesome question. So, so, yeah, at the time of us doing 5,000,000, I wanna say we had about, like, 10 acquisitions guys, and we had about, three dispo people.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And then we, of course, have a a transactional coordinator and, she actually doubles as a dispo manager too.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: And then, and then we've got a ton of, like, virtual assistants that just act as support. Mhmm. They don't really sell or anything. So we have, we have three virtual assistants that, that are helping with just taking all the inbound calls for these dispo people Mhmm. So they don't get overwhelmed.
Right.
Steve: And
Matt: they work weekends and stuff as well. Mhmm. And then we have we have, some other we have two other virtual assistants. Their whole job is to get, the documents we need for the flat fee companies and for the agents. They pretty much just bug bug sellers all day every day Mhmm.
And ask them, like, where their seller disclosure is and where their, listing agreement is and IDs, all that stuff. You'll follow
Steve: a specialist with a title company.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And then, yeah, if if the homeowner is, you know, too elderly or isn't great with computers, they'll they'll fill out the forms for the homeowner and just have them DocuSign later. Mhmm.
And then, of course, we have we have dispo assistance. We've got we had, like, about, three of those, and their their whole job is just digging through Podio and, trying to find somebody motivated enough to sell. Mhmm. And then they'll transfer it to our closers so our closers can close. Mhmm.
So
Steve: Wow. Okay. So, right now, are you strictly PPC?
Matt: Yeah. Right now, it's it's all PPC. I haven't done a direct mail campaign in probably, like, three years.
Steve: Okay. So 100% PPC.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: Are you using a third party company?
Matt: No. So I I do that all myself.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: I'm sure there's great third party companies out there, but I think if, if somebody can learn to do it on their own, they'll have probably the best results Mhmm. I would say.
Steve: Okay. So doing your own, which, you know, I did that back in 2012. It's evolved a lot faster in the last few years than it did when I was first doing it, you know, ten plus years ago.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: What resources did you use to learn how to get good at PPC?
Matt: So, yeah, again, the the masterminds are are a great resource. Mhmm. And, yeah, Sean's Sean's been great at teaching PPC over the years. And, Nick, yeah, Nick was the one that actually helped me get started because I was, like, terrified of Google Ads and, like, how fast it can burn your money.
Steve: Oh, it can burn it pretty fast.
Matt: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so so yeah. Nick Nick was able to help. He did, like, a, like, when his mastermind first opened up, he did, like, a a call with somebody showing him how his campaigns are.
Mhmm. And so he helped me kinda get started. And then and then I also looked up things from, like, Neil Patel Mhmm. And, did some calls with some, like, Google Ads support people.
Steve: Okay. So this is your genius zone.
Matt: Yeah. So, yeah, this this was, like, I was really interested in this PPC stuff. You know? So so I I worked hard on that.
Steve: Would it be bold to say that all the things that have to happen inside your wholesaling company, this right here is where, like, your magic is?
Matt: Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah. The the PPC is, like, is a big part of, like, what what's necessary to grow the organization. You know?
Yeah. Because without leads, you have you have no, like, lifeline, you know, you're done.
Steve: So would you recommend learning PPC to other people?
Matt: Yeah. Absolutely. Mhmm. I think they should learn PPC, especially if they're thinking about going nationwide or or doing, like, the virtual model.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: I will say though, with with the local model and belly to belly sales, PPC is very expensive.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And I could never get a a local PPC campaign to perform the same way I can get a nationwide campaign to perform.
Steve: So explain why that is.
Matt: I think it's because of just the the high concentration of competition.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And you've got everybody, you know, in Louisville that's that's trying to get leads, and they're all bidding on the same keywords.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And, and so, yeah, that that cost per lead just goes up and up. Mhmm. And it's probably even worse in Phoenix.
Steve: It's pretty bad in Phoenix.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. So Sean actually told me, that, the Google PPC used to be, like, super cheap. I mean, it's not anymore, but he said he was getting Phoenix leads for, like, $50 a lead or something.
Steve: Less than that. Less than that. Yeah. Because back when it was me and Sean, it was $2 and change per click and $12 and change per lead. Wow.
Yeah. If I go back in time right? Or if I could just bring those numbers back into today, you're printing money.
Matt: Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Well, it's not like that now.
Steve: No. It's not like that now. So, in fact, I mean, Sean Terry, who's on the show, I wanna say about a year ago, maybe a little over a year ago, he talked about, if he had to rely on PPC in just Phoenix alone, he would have to seriously consider shutting down his business.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Right? And that was the reason why he went nationwide.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: And then you have this you're saying the same thing. Because you're in multiple markets, you can and it's not that you can't buy deals in Phoenix or Louisville. It's just you're not getting as many of those as as some of the other markets.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly.
Steve: Okay. So then how many states are you in right now?
Matt: So we've done deals, and, last I checked, it was 48 out of the 50 states.
Steve: You're in 40 out of 50 states? Yeah. Okay. So then, do you have multiple campaigns? One for, like, major markets, one for secondary markets, one for tertiary markets, or how do you decide to split up the the the budget?
Matt: Yeah. So it's it's much simpler than that.
Steve: Much simpler than that. Okay.
Matt: Oh, yeah. It's it's just pretty much I have all these campaigns Mhmm. Targeting, like, certain keywords. Mhmm. And then they're all they're all nationwide campaigns.
Like, Google will let you do a nationwide campaign. And then So
Steve: it's just a straight United States campaign?
Matt: Yeah. Just a straight United States campaign. And then if I have problems with a certain state or if I'm getting, like, a lot of, two rural leads in a certain county, I would I'll go in there and block it. But, but, yeah, that's that's pretty much it.
Steve: Wow. Okay. So just one nationwide campaign, and then you'll block out certain ZIP codes perhaps.
Matt: Yes. Well, well, it's multiple campaigns, at, like, different budgets and stuff. But, like, I may have, like, one campaign that's, like, a $100 per day, and this campaign is, like, $500 per day. Mhmm. And then they'll just be very slight differences between the campaigns.
Steve: Right. Yeah. Okay. Because I know, like, when Brandon Bateman was here, he was talking about the way they, you have to, like, block off all the areas, like, don't have lights on at night. Right?
Like, for example.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: You don't have anything like that. It's just like, this area sucks. Just Yeah. Don't beat over here.
Matt: Yeah. And I haven't done that in, honestly, a long time. But but, yeah, when I was when I had time to actually go into my PPC hardcore, I would just kinda go through my CRM and I'd say, okay. I'm getting a bunch of leads from, this this part of The US. And when you look on Google Maps, it's just, like, nothing but, like, desert and, like, maybe some trailer parks.
Right. Like, yeah. We we don't wanna do deals there, so we'll go ahead and block that one.
Steve: How much time would you say so it's two different questions here. How much time would you say you spent today managing a PPC, and how much time do you would you say you spent in the beginning on working in PPC?
Matt: Yeah. In the beginning, I spent quite a bit of time on it. If I had to put, like, an exact number on it, I'd say in the beginning, I was spending at least, like, ten hours a week probably Mhmm. On PPC. And, now that it's actually running and it's and I don't have to mess with it a whole lot, I mean, I I probably spend now, like, probably less than, like, twenty, thirty minutes a day on average.
Like, so not not a whole lot of time on it.
Steve: And then when we say now, this is your highest leverage activity?
Matt: Yeah. Well, PPC and then hiring.
Steve: Hiring. Okay. So, let's talk about that. So we already talked about how you're getting your leads. You're doing dispo through innovations.
You were talking about your structure. Okay. So let's talk about building the organization.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: So how's that journey been? Pretty easy, I imagine.
Matt: Yeah. I mean, it's been it's been fun. So, I
Steve: was being sarcastic.
Matt: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's it's been a it's definitely been a journey. So, so the so one of the the first things I had to do when it comes to building the organization is obviously fire myself. The first job I fired myself from was acquisitions.
Mhmm. Ryan took my job at acquisitions.
Steve: You're probably excited about that.
Matt: I was loving it. Yeah. Yeah. And then I was doing dispo, and then, when I hired, Nicole back when she worked for me, she took over dispo for me, and then I fired myself from dispo. Mhmm.
I was very thankful for that. Yeah. And then, of course, fired myself from TC when I hired, Tara. And then, yeah, it's it's been really good. But basically, right now, I I do mostly, like, the hiring and, look at the KPIs.
Mhmm. And, and that's that's the next thing. That's the, like, the next big, task that I'm gonna have to replace myself with Mhmm. Probably sooner rather than later because it it takes up lots and lots of my time because, because, yeah, like I said, I got three, four recruiters sending me people, like, constantly. And so
Steve: So explain that. Three to four recruiters.
Matt: Yeah. Are
Steve: these just straight headhunters, or you're paying them, like, a a regular, retainer?
Matt: Yeah. So a couple of them are just a couple of them are just headhunters, but, but I still pay them. Like, they work hourly. So I don't know if they qualify still as, like, a headhunter. Mhmm.
Because, I guess, a headhunter is only supposed to get paid when they when you hire somebody. Yeah.
Steve: They they get, like, 40% of the salary.
Matt: Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, they don't they don't work that way with me. Yeah. I pay them, like, hourly and stuff.
Mhmm. And, and they send me, leads of people that, like, would make good candidates Mhmm. In my company. And then I give them the thumbs up or thumbs down if we're gonna interview them. Mhmm.
And then, if I think they're they would make a good candidate, I they usually will interview with Ryan first or Tara first. And then, if they pass that interview, then they'll do one with both me and Tara or both me and Ryan. And then, of course, before Ryan, they have to interview with the recruiter.
Steve: Right.
Matt: Because yeah.
Steve: Why four different recruiters though?
Matt: Well, because, I just don't wanna get rid of any of them. You know what I mean?
Steve: So they've all done good work?
Matt: Yeah. For the most part, I only had one recruiter that I I was not happy with, and I I let that one go.
Steve: I guess, let me be clear. They work for you? Like, they work at your or they're, a third party?
Matt: Yeah. Great question. So so I have two full time only working for me.
Steve: Okay. So two recruiting employees.
Matt: Yeah. Employees. And then I have two that are just kinda like freelance. Mhmm. Right?
So I have, I have one that works, like, fifteen hours a week. Mhmm.
Steve: And
Matt: then one that works, like, twenty hours a week. Got it. And, and, yeah, they just they just tell me how much they worked Mhmm. For the week, and they bill me.
Steve: Okay. Mhmm. So talk to me about the two right now that you have internally.
Matt: What
Steve: What are their roles and responsibilities?
Matt: Yeah. So they're on, they're on LinkedIn and they're on Indeed, and they're just, they're posting jobs. They're messaging people, to see if they'd be interested in a in an opportunity to work somewhere else. And, and then they're they're going through our assessments. We have every candidate that wants to apply take an assessment.
So they they have to go through the assessments, and they'll go through kinda like the top, the top assessments and then kind of, go through their their interviews. Everybody does like a one way video interview if they wanna work for me. Mhmm. Answering different questions if they think their interview went well and their test went well. They'll send them they'll interview them themselves, and then they'll send it to me.
And then I'm kind of, like, quality control, making sure I agree with their selections and stuff. Yeah.
Steve: One way interview, meaning they're just answering the questions. Like, there's not an actual, like, back and forth with another person.
Matt: Yeah. No. Not yet. So when they first apply, they'll take some, some tests. Mhmm.
They'll the it'll test, like, their computer skills, test, like, their typing speed, test their, like, English ability Yeah. Problem solving, just things like that. And then, and then, yeah, the when it gets to the interview part, I've never actually taken it myself, but I believe it's just it's they put their webcam on
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And then, like, a question will pop up, and they just kinda answer it, and record their answer. Okay.
Steve: I haven't seen that before. I'll have to check that out. Yeah. But then the two in house recruiters, they're just, they're not just taking applications. Like, they're actually reaching out, talking to people that are employed
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: And seeing if they're interested in a career change.
Matt: Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. You have to I actually learned this from Scott Utes. Scott Utes said, the people that are applying to your position are usually not not the ones you wanna be hiring.
Steve: Right.
Matt: And I'd say, that is true to, like, a certain extent. Of course, we found great people that were unemployed for, you know, no fault of their own, and now they work for us. But, but it is true that, like, you'll find better candidates if you're actually talking to people that already have jobs
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And seeing if they wanna take an opportunity to work for you. But that's not a that's not a tip to steal my employees or anything. Yeah.
Steve: Well, that's true, though. I mean, we all know this. Like, or Yeah. It's it's it's been an accepted fact that the people that are applying for your jobs are applying for a reason. Right?
And then people that are happy or people that are really good generally are not looking for a job. Generally. Not always true, but generally. So they're going on LinkedIn and they're just reaching out to people?
Matt: Yeah. LinkedIn and, and, like, Facebook and Indeed. But, but really, I think only LinkedIn tells you the people that are, like, currently employed.
Steve: How do you like, what are some things that you guys look for? Like, for example, one of my favorite things is debt collector.
Matt: Oh, yeah. We love debt collector. Yeah.
Steve: If you got debt collection experience, fantastic. What are the things you're looking for when you're reaching out to people?
Matt: Yeah. So if we're looking at their profile, we wanna see that they've had a lot of jobs, in the similar skill set. Mhmm. So, like, if if it's a sales job we're looking to fill, we wanna see, like, lots of sales jobs over the years. Mhmm.
Steve: We
Matt: wanna see someone that's, like, staying for a few years at a time. Mhmm. Not someone that's hopping around a lot.
Steve: Some loyalty.
Matt: Yeah. And that's really what we look for for, like, a profile, like, quick profile snapshot. Yeah. And then, of course, when they interview, we want somebody that's, that's coachable, and we want somebody that's, is confident. Mhmm.
And then we want somebody that's that doesn't have, like, a big ego or anything because, because I think everyone, like, that's done wholesaling for a while and had a team has always had had experience with a person that's a great salesman, but has a big ego. Mhmm. And it's very hard to manage somebody like that.
Steve: We find a lot of those in this industry.
Matt: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Steve: And the realtor industry.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Yeah. You mentioned earlier, some of the top assessments. Which assessments do you like the most? Or what are some of your favorite assessments in screening a candidate?
Matt: Yeah. We've used a a few different ones, but the one we've used, the most is we use the TestGorilla assessment. Mhmm. Yeah. TestGorilla, it's very customizable, and they have, like, all these different tests for, like, admin jobs or, recruiting jobs, sales jobs.
They even have tests if if you wanna, like, assess somebody for, like, a tech job, you can give them, like, a coding test and stuff. Wow. Yeah. That's pretty cool.
Steve: Alright. Now your goal is to double. Right? And, again, you're already at 1.1 just two months into the year. What's gonna be different in '25 versus '24?
Matt: Well, in 2025, we actually have, I feel like we have finally enough people for the amount of leads we're getting. Mhmm.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: Right? So we get, like, lately, it's been, like, 350 leads a week.
Steve: Oh, wow. That's a lot.
Matt: Yeah. So, so when our team was smaller last year, we we had a lot more deals fall through the cracks. Mhmm. Our dispo people were keeping track of the homeowner and trying to sell the deal, And we noticed a lot of times the homeowner would would call a dispo person and, and couldn't get a hold of our dispo person.
Steve: Yeah. It's all good.
Matt: And that and then so we would lose the deal because the homeowner would get upset with us. And then, like, some same thing on buy side, we'd have, we'd have buyers try and submit their offers. And then, again, our our dispo guys were so bogged down. They weren't getting back to these people. So we hired, we hired two more dispo people, and then we had, we hired some client relations depart client relations department.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Client relations is our newest department. Their whole job is to hold the seller's hand throughout the whole process Mhmm. Of getting their household.
Steve: Wow. So yeah. Okay. So one person just for that. Yeah.
They're not doing TC. They're not doing DISPO. They're just there for the homeowner.
Matt: That's right.
Steve: Wow. That's different. Yeah.
Matt: And their their works their job is probably the most stressful out of everybody's.
Steve: Oh, yeah. Mhmm. Definitely the most stressful because they're talking to the person that's the most stressed in this interaction.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly. So so we hire people that are, that seem like they're they're very, like, people friendly and people that have maybe done customer service in the past, that sort of thing. Just very like will people have have that job.
Steve: Yeah. You gotta be. Mhmm. That's awesome. So, we haven't really, we talked about or I've asked a lot of questions, right, about, like, what your structure looks like today.
What have I not asked if, you know, someone that's watching wants to, you know, be able to do nationwide PPC or do five, ten million?
Matt: Mhmm.
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Matt: Oh, a question that you didn't ask that somebody should know. Mhmm. Well, I think, I think I'm living proof that, like, you don't have to be, like a genius or, like, super talented to have a successful wholesaling business. And so, and so yeah. So I think a lot of people would probably wanna know that that, like, it's it doesn't take anything super special to
Steve: be able to do this.
Matt: But it does take hard work.
Steve: Right.
Matt: So, yeah, I was never the most, like, talented or anything like that. But but I I knew I could work hard, and I was willing to put in the hours, especially before I had, a wife and a little one. I was putting in all kinds of hours.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Now I can't do that so much. But, but anybody willing to to put in the work and actually, like, get mentors, pay the mentors. I mean, if you can, if you can find a multimillion dollar mentor to mentor you for free, more power to you. I don't I don't know anyone that's doing that. But but, yeah, just just pay what it cost.
Mhmm. It'll be worth it in the end. If you if you go with, like, Sean Terry or Nick Perry or any of these guys that have proven, like, wholesale models, like, you'll be alright.
Steve: Yeah. Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Mhmm. So what does your life look like now versus, you know, when you first got started? I mean, you mentioned a wife Mhmm.
Little one. Like, how different is your life today?
Matt: Oh, yeah. It's very different. So, so as I mentioned, like, I'm not able to I don't work as much as I used to. Mhmm. In the early days, I was working, like, all the time, and it was, like, nonstop.
Right. And, and sometimes I kinda miss that, you know, because I'm like, yeah. This is, like, our grind season and stuff. But, but now I I pretty much I mean, I everyone works from home. My whole team just works We
Steve: have an entire entirely virtual team. No office.
Matt: Yeah. No office. So everybody works from home on their computer, and, we all communicate through Discord.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So we're like a bunch of nerdy gamers, like, getting on with our headsets
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: And talking about deals. So, so, yeah, it's pretty cool. But, yeah, I I I work, like, way less than I used to. I I work maybe, like, forty eight hours a week if I'm having a good week.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: But, but I I wish I could work more, but, you know, again, you got a family. It's, like, a lot harder to to work those sixty hours. 100%.
Steve: What freedom have you has real estate afforded you?
Matt: Well, definitely, the the freedom to, kind of make my own schedule has been great. And, yeah, like, for example, over Christmas time last year, me and the wife and the the little one, we went to Turks and Caicos.
Steve: Oh, nice. And, and while I
Matt: was doing that, the, the team was able to hold things down
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And we were still closing deals, that sort of thing. So, but, yeah, it's a great feeling when deals are still closing, and you're not the one closing them.
Steve: Oh, 100%.
Matt: It's amazing.
Steve: And then what is your epic life goal?
Matt: My epic life goal? Mhmm. Well, I, I would like to keep working on my wholesale business, but, but I wanna have enough money to, like, be able to retire to make work optional. Right. I think that would be the ultimate goal.
At first, my goal was to just be able to make enough money and keep making that money to not have to work for another company. Mhmm. And then once I was able to do that, now I'm like, okay. Now I have to get, like, work as optional money. Mhmm.
But, but, yeah, I'm I'm interested in, like, all sorts of different business things, and I I think it's cool that people do, like, startups and venture capital and, and, like, m and a, you know, murders and acquisitions, whatever. I love all that stuff.
Steve: It's great. How far away are you from being able to make work optional?
Matt: How far? I feel like I'm very far, but, yeah. To me, I've always I actually, recently, I think I calculated that, like, if I had if I had, like, 8 figures, in net assets or whatever, just, you know, cash and stocks and whatever, that and you get a 10% return
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Then that's, like, enough money to more than, like, do whatever you want for the rest of your life. Right? So Yeah. So I'm still a little bit aways from that. But I think if I can, I think if I can continue to grow and, continue to, like, expand this business Mhmm?
And, like, maybe find some other ways to generate income, I I think it's possible I could get there in, like, seven, eight years.
Steve: Seven years. I mean, I would say this trajectory probably a lot sooner than that. Hopefully, that'd be great. What's your biggest struggle today?
Matt: My biggest struggle today? I'd say definitely just kinda the work life balance thing, you know, because, because, yeah, I've got I've got a almost two year old now and stuff and Mhmm. And wife and, and, yeah, I I'm I'm not I'm not in the days where I can just wake up, work, and, eat, like, one time and then just keep working until, like, midnight, right, or whenever. So, and so yeah. Like, when you're when you're, like, really grinding at that level, like, it it seems like the amount of money you can make is unlimited.
Right?
Steve: Right.
Matt: But now you got a family. Right? You have to you have to think about them. You have to think about what's good for them. And, and that may not be good for them.
Right? So
Steve: Yeah. So okay. What are you doing about that?
Matt: Well, actually, me and, me and my wife, we came up with a a solution recently. So so now I get a grind day on Friday. Mhmm. Friday gets to be my, like, work as long as you want day. Mhmm.
Compromise. Yeah. It's a compromise.
Steve: Yeah. I like that.
Matt: So that's helped a lot.
Steve: Gotcha. And then how would you measure success?
Matt: Yeah. That's an awesome question. I think anybody that's doing what they love is successful.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Yeah. Anybody that's doing what they love and even if they're not, like, at the destination, but they're kinda, like, in the process, like, to me, that's success. Yeah. Anybody that is willing to to, you know, to take a risk or, or do something they're not sure they they can do and and still do it, like, with a smile on their faces is winning.
Steve: Oh, yeah. I I completely agree with that. What is your superpower?
Matt: My superpower? Oh, that's a tough one. I think one of my superpowers is being able to, like, hire really good people.
Steve: Mhmm. Yeah.
Matt: I actually went to school for human resources, and, I couldn't get a human resources job out of college. Mhmm. But but but now I get to do it in my own company. So Yeah. So there you go.
Steve: How did you go from human resources to working on robots?
Matt: Well, yeah. That's the thing is nobody was hiring human resources people, when I graduated. I I graduated in in 2011. This was very close to the recession.
Steve: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: And so, and so, like, nobody was hiring for anything.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And then, I I worked all these, like, different odd jobs, throughout the years. Mhmm. And, I met some guys doing industrial maintenance. Mhmm. And, they recommended that I go to school for that so that I can actually make some decent money.
Steve: Different field.
Matt: Oh, yeah. Very different.
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: But it paid really good.
Steve: Yeah. Well, it always does.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. The pay good is in the trades, and those guys, hourly rate goes up every year.
Steve: Yeah. That's an underrated somehow still people don't know about trades. What's your biggest regret?
Matt: My biggest regret? The only regret I can think of is that I didn't start that I didn't know about wholesaling, like, in college. Yeah. Because, yeah, I was in Bowling Green, and, nobody in Bowling Green was really talking about entrepreneurship or wholesaling or any of that stuff. Yeah.
So, so really, that's it.
Steve: Oh, that makes sense. Which failure did you learn the most from?
Matt: Failure I learned the most from? Yeah. That's a good question. Probably my first business, my very first business that I tried as a side hustle was a, Amazon business. Mhmm.
Steve: Like an ecom.
Matt: Yeah. Like ecom. So I I I reached out to this, manufacturer in China. They made me a bunch of chalk bags for rock climbing.
Steve: Okay.
Matt: And I was I was gonna make, like, a million dollar chalk bag business on Amazon. Didn't work out.
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: I think I I either lost money or broke even. Mhmm. But, yeah, I learned that, it's a lot easier to make money in the service businesses than it is, like, the ecom businesses.
Steve: Yeah. Why is that?
Matt: Well, because, like, a a product business, especially, like, you're shipping these products from China and stuff and, and they're having to make them, like, in in bulk Mhmm. And, and you can't really modify it the way you can a service business. Right?
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. You can't customize it as much.
Matt: Yeah. If someone thinks, like, your service sucks, then you can change it. Mhmm.
Steve: Right.
Matt: You can change it overnight. Someone thinks your product sucks. Okay. We've gotta go back to the drawing board, and is this gonna set us back probably another six months? Product's the product.
Yeah. Product's the product.
Steve: Yeah. We already have a bunch of them in in stock in the store or in the warehouse. Can't go back and just change all of them.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I I learned that e comm was was probably not gonna be for me.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, another thing too, like, I've got some friends that have been in e comm, and it's, like, it's the inventory that kills them. It's the, well, we can't move this one anymore, but it's still on the
Matt: books. Mhmm.
Steve: Yeah. What book have you gifted more than any other?
Matt: Well, I I gifted, the 10 x rule
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: To a few people. I don't know if they read it or not, but I I really like that book, especially when I was, like, newer to the wholesaling entrepreneurship world Yeah. And stuff. And I'm also a big fan of Think and Grow Rich. Mhmm.
Sean Terry got me onto that book. Yeah. And then, Psycho, Cybernetics. That's a great book too. The classics.
Steve: Yeah. They're great, great books.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: You know, it was funny. I'm trying to think. Like, the first time I went through the 10 x rule, I guess, the only time I went through it. The first half just did nothing for me, but the second half, like, it all clicked.
Matt: Oh, nice.
Steve: And I probably should say it should probably be the 100 x rule.
Matt: Yeah. No
Steve: matter what you think it is, it's gonna be way harder. Like, 10, I'm not even sure 10 does it justice. Like, you know, this is probably very discouraging when people want when people ask me, like, you know, like, what should they know? I was like, it's gonna suck for a lot. It's gonna suck a lot for a long time
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Before it pays off. You better love it. Because if you don't love it, you're not ready to eat crap all day, don't start it. It's gonna suck a lot Yeah.
Matt: All the time. Exactly.
Steve: Yeah. So okay. Well, that's really helpful. Really, really appreciate it. Now you mentioned, you know, Nick, Perry, and and Sean Terry, and, like, you know, they're really helpful for you, and you wanted to pay it forward in some respect.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: So, you wanna talk about how how that would work?
Matt: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, anybody that wants, like, a consult, if you wanna, if you want me to give insights on how you can grow your business and do numbers like what I'm doing. I literally just today made a website, the mattrestoski.com website. And, you can do we have some booking, links there, thirty minute and hour appointments you can do.
Yeah. I mean, it's not free. I didn't I didn't get my information for free, so, unfortunately, I can't give mine away for free either. Wish I could, but, there's only one of me. So Right.
Steve: And, you know, your time is actually worth something. You're doing, big, big numbers. And, I mean, when I, I Sean's asked me to come into the mastermind a few times, you know, to share and speak whatever. And so, like, when I go, I'd stick around for for a bit. I mean, I can see, like, you're one of the leaders in there.
So, you know, people someone watching this right now might think, oh, you know, like, you know, who is this guy? Why should I listen to him? But, like, you're doing big numbers. You're just unassuming.
Matt: Yeah. Right. I'm not the loudest.
Steve: You're not the loudest. I But you're doing big numbers.
Matt: That's right. Yeah. It's the it's the quiet guy you gotta watch out for.
Steve: Yeah. So I appreciate you coming on. Guys, if you got value today, please subscribe, share, give us a five star review. Anything and everything helps. Again, we're trying to create we're not trying to create.
We're creating millionaires, and we would appreciate your help along the way. Any last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners with?
Matt: Yeah. Just that, yeah. If you're new and coming up in the game, definitely network a lot. There was a ton of people that helped me, that I networked with Mhmm. Before I could actually afford to pay coaches and stuff.
Mhmm. There were there were still people that were in my network that were a huge help to me. Yeah. And, yeah, it's like I get that saying goes, no man is an island. Mhmm.
So I think that's just very, very true and especially the wholesaling game. Yeah. There's just been so many people that have helped me out on the way. You know? And it's like, I can't even name them all on the on the podcast, but, but, yeah, they were all essential to me getting to where I'm at now.
Steve: Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on sharing. Thank you. Like, I mean, you're you're sharing, like, you used to listen to this.
Matt: Oh, yeah. Right?
Steve: And saying one day come on. Like, for me, like, that is one of the things that, like, I I it's incredibly fulfilling for myself, you know, producing a show because, like, you put it out there. Who's listening? We don't know. Like, we see the analytics.
We know people are listening. People are watching, but we don't always know who it is. And even more importantly, we don't know who it's impacting.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Right? So I appreciate you coming on, you know, fulfilling your goals, fulfilling my goals, sharing your story, sharing your lessons incredibly. Awesome. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on.
Matt: And thank you, Steve.
Steve: Yeah. My pleasure. Thank you guys for watching. We'll see you guys next week. Shout out to Steve train.
Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
