Steve Trang interviews Matt Vibroch from acquisitionreps.com about scaling real estate businesses and overcoming solopreneur burnout. Vibroch shares his journey from military aspirations to real estate investing, discussing his experience with multiple failed partnerships, working at New Western and Keller Williams, and eventually co-founding BRRRR Method with Eric Brewer. He explains how to identify when you're ready to hire A-players, the importance of fixing operations before scaling sales teams, and his current fractional COO services that help investors systematize their businesses.
Fix your operations before hiring A-player closers - dropping elite talent into chaos creates more problems, not solutions
Hire an executive assistant before a salesperson to handle administrative tasks and free up time for high-value activities like acquisitions
Track your time for two weeks to identify what to delegate using the 'buyback rate' - aim for 5x return on tasks you delegate
1:55:06Josh Stech, founder of LendingHome and Sundae, shares how he built a billion-dollar real estate lending company in just five years, scaling to 14% market share. He discusses the venture capital playbook, hiring at scale, maintaining culture with 500+ employees, and his transition to solving the property sourcing problem for investors through Sundae's marketplace model.
1:47:49Tommy Mello, founder of A1 Garage Door Service, shares his journey from massive debt to building a billion-dollar company. He discusses critical business lessons including the importance of systems, hiring for attitude over experience, and how he scaled from a local garage door business to a nationwide operation that sold for $570 million.
Get a free AI-powered review of your sales calls. See exactly where you're losing deals and how to fix it.
Get notified when new episodes drop, plus a free AI call review.
Date potential business partners for 2-3 years through joint ventures before forming official partnerships to avoid costly breakups
Focus on net profit goals, not revenue vanity metrics, and work backwards to determine team size and marketing budgets needed
”“I quit my w two job. I was working forty hours a week to make half as much money working eighty hours a week for myself. It's like but I know there's potential there.”
”“You can't drop a Kobe Bryant into a really crappy NBA team and then just expect them to turn things around immediately.”
”“A players only wanna work for A players. Most organizations are not ready for an A player because the A players that I've worked with are literally making 3 to $500,000 a year.”
”“What got me here certainly isn't gonna get me there, but I don't know what how to fill that that span.”
24045 words
Matt Vibroch: Was getting snappy with my wife, my kids, struggling to keep all the the plates spinning in the air at one time. Any one little thing could come and just knock them down. I went to levels of depression, you know, that were really, really low points in my life. I was losing sleep at night, extreme weight gain, working all hours of the day. I was trying to keep it all balanced.
It was horrible by dealing with this. I was trying to manage being the transaction coordinator, plus I had my flipping stuff I was doing and wholesaling all sorts of things at the same time. I was a one man show. I quit my w two job. I was working forty hours a week to make half as much money working eighty hours a week for myself.
It's like but I know there's potential there. That's what I said.
Steve Trang: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have Matt Vibroch with acquisitionreps.com. And Matt flew in from Austin, Texas to talk about how to double your deal flow in a hundred days or less. Guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on this show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years.
If you'll take consistent action, you will become one. And If you're already a millionaire, we wanna recognize and highlight you on the show. Please scan that QR code on the screen so that we can highlight you here. If you're not there yet and you want some help, scan that same QR code, and maybe we can help you get there a little bit faster. Before we jump in, if you're here to learn how real entrepreneurs are building real empires, make sure you hit that subscribe button because every week, we're dropping lessons that can help you that can help you create your first or your next million.
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Matt: Ready? Yes, sir.
Steve: Alright. So this is another episode. It's been a long time coming. We've been talking about this for a very long time. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the before we get into all that, what was
Steve: your life like before you got into it?
Matt: Long story. So start back when I was four years old. I wanted to I watched Top Gun for the first time at my grandparents' house, and I knew from that point I wanted to be a fighter pilot. So Alright. I everything leading up to college was in preparation for that.
And Everything.
Steve: Everything. Like Four years old to college.
Matt: Four years old to college. Like, I knew like, I was laser focused on it. That's like, that's all I wanna do is go in the military, fly fighter jets for a living, and that was it. It was only when I got to about 16 is I, I my aunt handed me a book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, just like everybody else pretty much, and I was lucky enough at 16. I had a backup plan.
Right? So I knew that if military didn't work out for whatever reason, real estate was gonna be my thing. I just didn't know how it was gonna work. Right? Yeah.
He teaches a lot about the concepts, but
Steve: not the how necessarily.
Matt: So Fantastic whats. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So fast forward, I I'm in my junior, senior year high school, and I got, both a four year air force, scholarship, so full ride, and, one for the navy as well.
Chose to go the air force route. Did a year at Texas A and M University in, the ROTC there, the corps cadets, and, realized I absolutely hated the air force. No offense to anybody who's Air Force. It just wasn't for me. It's like
Steve: the day after veterans.
Matt: I know. I know. And I feel bad saying that. So, but all my friends were on the the Navy marine side. So anyway and so, I was like, this isn't for me.
And I also had, my first very serious girlfriend at that time. Mhmm. And things were getting serious and, took the took the summer off trying to figure out, like, what I was gonna do. And then, she ended up getting pregnant, and that completely changed my whole trajectory and world with everything. Dropped out of school for, you know, I think it was, like, a year and a half, two years while we're dealing with that situation.
She, unfortunately lost the baby. But, you know, blessings in disguise, I guess. From there, I was just, like, floundering. I had no idea what
Steve: it was. Rude awakening that made you realize Air Force was at it? Because you were, I mean, that's twelve years. Yeah. Good chunk of your life.
Matt: Yeah. It's you you you go in in the the first day you go in there, you're just, like, you're getting screamed at, you know, in in basic. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize I had a problem with authority. So so
Steve: Okay. So it wasn't the fact you're getting screamed at. It was the fact that you didn't realize you had a problem with being screamed at.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Steve: It was like
Matt: so I didn't do I didn't wanna do the things that he told me to do. I was like, this is stupid. And I was like, how is this gonna help me become a fighter pilot? And, you know, and if the funny thing is, like, I knew all the things, like, I was gonna be going through. So it wasn't like a big surprise or anything.
It was just like I was impatient. And I tried to be the Billy Badass and, you know, try to be, like, the best guy in the group and stuff like that. But the it was one of those things where I got in, and it's like, you realize, okay. I thought I was the best, you know, in in high school and stuff like that, and I I was in my top of my class. And, you know, and then you get around a whole bunch of other people who are also the best in their classes as well, and it's like, oh, you're not special.
So it's like,
Steve: you know,
Matt: how you stand out. And I think I tried to stand out a little too much, and I got a pretty big target on my back. And
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: I was, they pushed me over the edge, so to speak. So it just Wow. When you are super gung ho, when, you're in the military, or, you know, or at least in in training, they you become kind of a target. Right? It's like they really wanna test you and for good reason.
Right? They wanted they had to break you down in order to rebuild you back up. But as they did that, I just I just I just got ostracized, you know, from some of the group members and things like that. So, being somebody who, you know, seeks, you know, a prayer praise and and attaboys, you know, from from the higher ups and stuff like that. When I stopped getting that and all my buddies were essentially, you know, just beating me down, you know, just like yeah.
I was a lone wolf at that point. They didn't wanna be around me because, like, I got so much of the attention from the upperclassmen. So, it just wasn't for me. Right? So, big wake up call, and it sucked because I was like, well, there's a whole, like, twelve years of my life that I just kinda spent, you know, almost wasted.
It kinda felt like, and then I I spiraled. You know? I was I had drinking problems, you know, and, you know, I end up having to live with my brother for a little while, him and his wife, and just because I and I was just lost. Right? And then I was like, okay.
Well, I'm gonna try this military thing one more time and try to go back. Yeah. I was like, okay. Maybe this time I'll try the navy. Because I said, all my buddies that I had when I was in the corps were just, you know, corps cadets.
They're all on the navy marine side of the house. And so I was like, I like that better. And then I read I read a book, about fighter pilot training. And in there, there's one line that says, you know, you're gonna be deployed for, like, eighteen months at a time in some cases. And, I knew I wanted to have a family at one point.
And so I was like, man, is this something I really wanna do? And they also said, you know, in in the training in the book, they're like, hey. Look to your left. Look to your right. And, one of you is not gonna be here by the end of the next two years.
So training accidents were super high back in the day, you know, for fighter pilot training.
Steve: Oh, literally, like, dead.
Matt: Yeah. Like, dead. Not like Yeah.
Steve: You're not gonna make make the program. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: And I was like, okay.
Steve: So ASU. It was like, hey. Yeah. Your love looks right. One of you guys won't be at ASU anymore.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. No. This was like and and then, in fact, they talked about it in the book. It's like they had a a training mishap, and one of the planes went down, and it was just like, okay.
It was an eye opener for me. And I was like, okay. I I we'll see if I wanna do this. So I was in the pipeline to go into the into OCS, for the navy. And then I met my my now wife, and, she's like, I I don't wanna be a navy wife.
And I just I was like, okay. So that was it. So military is completely off the books for me at this point. So I I really struggled with that, just because it was like it felt like you've had lifelong dream. It's just now completely gone.
But it's like I was saying, what am I gonna do now? And so, I was like, okay. Well, real estate's that next thing. And so, I had a small stint in the car business. Yeah.
So that was it lasted about seven months, and I absolutely hated it. I was a finance manager at a Ford dealership up in Lawrence, Kansas. And And I I've actually moved up there after college to go be close to my grandfather. He was getting sick, and I didn't get to spend a lot of time with him growing up. So, best seven months of my life and some of the worst, you know, with the job.
The spending time with him was awesome. But then my wife was like, hey. I'd love for you to move back and, you know, so we could be together. So I moved in with her, and I went to go work for New Western acquisitions. So
Steve: You were a New Western guy?
Matt: I was a New Western guy. Yeah. So this was 02/2011. 2011. Yeah.
2011.
Steve: New West, you're in. Where what market were you in?
Matt: I was in San Antonio.
Steve: Got it.
Matt: So yeah. Okay. I was driving from North Austin to Downtown San Antonio six days a week. How long does that drive? 95 miles on the way.
Steve: Wow. Wow.
Matt: I spent I was the top sales guy within three months there. I was on the dispo side. I think I spent all my my money that I've made on commissions in gas just getting back for us. But, I mean, it was a great way to cut my teeth, you know, in real estate and learning the wholesale side of the business. I mean, I'd recommend anybody who wants to get into it, go work for a company like New Western or Net Worth or something like that.
So
Steve: Okay. So you worked in New Western. You're a top rep doing dispo. Yeah. What would you what did you learn from that experience?
Matt: Oh, man. Great. Big time. I mean, going out, you know, ass early in the morning, you know, on a even Saturday morning and going putting out like, we're talking three, 04:00 in the morning, drive down there and go put out banded signs to try and drive buyer leads, you know, is is something. I go usually put out 100 to 200 signs, you know, every Saturday.
And then I had to go pick them back up, you know, on Sunday night kinda situation because of code code enforcement. And god bless my wife. She's a trooper. She would go and do it with me sometimes. Mhmm.
And so this is why we're still dating. But grit was a big one, and just speed to speed to contract was a big one for me. Yeah. We would literally as soon as the acquisition guys would drop a a new deal, all of us dispo guys, we would literally all jump in our cars, call our buyers while we're on the way to the property. And there I would look at, like, there were fist fights happening in the front yard.
Yeah. Of guys, like, trying to fight over deals. These buyers, it was crazy.
Steve: So The buyers would fight.
Matt: The buyers would fight.
Steve: Yeah. So all you guys are trying to dispose the same property Yep. To all your buyers Yep. And all the buyers will show up at the same time.
Matt: Yep. And all show at the same time. And it's whoever whoever was the first one to get the earnest money check and drive it to the office was the one who got the deal. It was crazy. It was like the wild west, man.
Yeah. I don't know if they do it like that anymore, but it was it was fun. Maybe not.
Steve: Yeah. So you say you were the top rep. I mean, how many deals are you doing?
Matt: I was doing seven to 10 a month Mhmm. With them. So I was really big on building really good relationships with my buyers, you know, taking them out for coffee on a regular basis, meeting for lunch, and, just trying to build the biggest buyers list that I possibly could. But I always had my core, you know, 10 buyers that I could always call upon, and they'd be like, yeah. I'll take it sight unseen kind of situation.
So that made it easy because then I didn't have to actually go run out there to the properties and watch the fist fights and stuff like that.
Steve: Money faster.
Matt: Yeah. Exactly. So it's like here, just meet me at the office.
Steve: How long were you in New Western?
Matt: I did that for about a year, and then I, I was like, man, this driving back and forth is really tough. So, obviously, I had my real realtor license at the time, and I knew some people who worked at Lifestyles Unlimited. I don't know if you're familiar with that company. But
Steve: I've heard of it.
Matt: Yeah. They're based out of, out of Houston, I think. Maybe Dallas. I can't remember. But, they're a real estate education company, and they primarily teach, single family investing to, like, basically get 10 rentals, pay them down enough where you have, like, a 100,000 in equity, and then chunk up into multifamily at this time.
So this is when multifamily has really become a big thing back in, like, 2012, 2013 era. And so I got into that. I was their sole realtor for the Austin area. So it was nice. I can finally got to be able to work from home.
I had to drive all over the place, and I was sourcing, I was sourcing deals for all their their basically, their clientele that they had. So Gotcha. And I I quickly realized, I was like, man, I missed the wholesaling side of it because the checks were a lot bigger. And, you know, being a realtor, I was like, $85,000 houses and making 3% on this. And the guy who just got done with it, he's, like, gonna make a 120,000 on it.
I was like, something's wrong with this picture here.
Steve: But you were sourcing the deals?
Matt: I was sourcing the deals.
Steve: As a realtor. Yeah. You're only getting 3%. Yeah. Why the heck were you doing that?
I don't know, man.
Matt: I was young, dumb, stupid at that time. So, yeah, I was like, I didn't we didn't really I understood what hard money was, you know, back then, but I'd I was like, I'm like, I there's no reason why anybody would give a young stupid kid like me, you know, a bunch of money to go buy these things. And I just I didn't have the confidence in myself, honestly, to go do it. I've always been one of those kinds of people. It's like, I like to be partnered up with somebody else to do it, and I'd not be in, like, the solo, you know, lone wolf kinda guy.
You know, I do these sorts of things. So, yeah, I didn't I never really took the leap when it came to going and buying them. And then the realization I had where I made a big mistake was a couple years later when I think it was about 2022 when COVID happened and and just Austin sky prices skyrocketed. Yeah. And I drove by one of the houses, and it was for sale.
And I went and go looked it up on the MLS because they sold my license at the time, and they were selling it for, like, $385,000 in Round Rock, Texas. And that was the same house that I had sold this guy for 85,000. He only put 30 into it, and I was just like, okay. I should have bought more. You know?
So I think it's what everybody every investor says at some point. Absolutely.
Steve: Yeah. So, 22. Because I know there were, like, we've we've known each other for a long time. Yeah. There were things that, you know, there was I'm looking at the notes here.
I don't see anything here. Like, you're heavily involved, I believe, with Keller Williams at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, we were also talking about, like I don't remember exactly when you got involved with Method.
So Yeah.
Matt: So So where where
Steve: where does that all fit in here?
Matt: Yeah. So from 2014 to 2022, I was really heavily with Keller Williams. I was a realtor with them, but I primarily worked in the transaction manager world
Steve: for
Matt: the most part. So if you know Casey Smith at Atlas TC Services, I had a TC company very similar to hers working with investors and with realtors, and so that's where the majority of my experience came from was working as a TC and owning a transaction coordination company for eight years. So I had, I think, I think in my height, I had, like, five or six TCs that were working underneath me, and we were closing each one was doing twenty, thirty deals a month pretty consistently. It was it was fun. I I really enjoyed it, but, man, the margins on on these contracts were super small, and and realtors Smaller
Steve: than a realtor commission.
Matt: Lot smaller. Yeah. But you work in volume. Right?
Steve: So going from wholesale commissions to realtor commissions to, like To TC commissions. To
Matt: TC commissions.
Steve: And you're already you're never getting the full TC commission. You're getting just a sliver of the TC commission.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. So but I was making decent money back then for for doing that for the amount of volume we were doing. But I I've always loved the operation side, and that's really the way really got me into it. So trying to go back to realtor thing, and then I was like, okay.
I'd really like to not have to I I hated showing houses. Like, that was just I was not a good realtor by any means for that. So, like, I'll send deals over to people all the time. You know? Say, hey.
Take a look at it. Go drive by it if you want. But it's like, I'm not gonna go put you in my car and drive you out there because it's reservation. Yeah. Yeah.
So, so but I was like, okay. I need to slow down. I wanna kinda work in an office maybe, and I was tired of working from home. So got hooked up with, Tim Heil in Austin, Texas, and he was runs a big he's a mega agent with Keller Williams. Mhmm.
And, I worked with him for a year, set up all of his operational systems, me and one other person in there. And he was at the end of the year, he was like, dude, you did such a good job with it. He's like, now I gotta go find find somebody else who's cheaper than you to to go run everything. So I was like, he's like, why don't you go start your own TC business? And so that's what I did.
And Yeah. You know, so from there And on I was just in wholesaling on the side, you know, while I was doing the TC stuff, and that was my that was my whole thing for eight years. Yeah. So yeah.
Steve: How long were you working with Tim?
Matt: That was for a year.
Steve: For a year? Because I know that's a big name. Yeah. So alright. So then That
Matt: was a phenomenal experience. And then after that but but I was still in that office, you know, with them, and I actually got to sit on a sit in on many meetings with where Gary Keller was actually in the room teaching and holding in court and everything, and that was that was cool. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I learned a lot of cool stuff from a billionaire.
Steve: Yeah. I bet. I bet. So then what will happen after that? After you just you do the TC thing, what will happen next?
Matt: Yeah. So after that, trying to think going back. That's when I was like, man, I really wanna get back into doing real estate investing full time myself. And so that's when Mike Porter and I partnered up. We had another partner at the time.
I went through a spate of bad partnerships before landing on Mike. And,
Steve: Let's talk about this. Yeah. I mean, I said, like, you know, traumatize you, but lessons, right, for everyone else.
Matt: Yeah. I have
Steve: this bad thing where, like, I if I meet a couple, you know, that's, like, recent divorce, like, I'll talk to the guy. I was like, so what'd you learn? Yeah. Yeah. What lessons can I take from this so that Man?
I don't get divorced. Right? I meet, like, happily married couple. Hey. Yeah.
What have you figured out?
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Right? So, like, I am always curious. So, like, when I ask these questions, not Oh, yeah. It's not to make you cry. No.
Matt: No. It's not Oprah.
Steve: I get it. For everyone else that's watching.
Matt: Yeah. No. So, I think I went through four or five partnerships, and it was always just like, hey. Cool. You got something I need, and I've got something you need.
I'm good at the operations. You're good at the sales. Let's do let's work together.
Steve: Mhmm. And
Matt: let's you know, I just I didn't really understand, I guess, at the time, like, how big of a deal it is to put your name on an LLC with somebody. And so it was just it was too easy just to go open a $300 LLC
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And and sign a basic operating agreement. And we we never planned out, like, who's gonna do what roles and stuff like this and stuff. And so, now it's like, I will not partner with anybody probably ever again. So it's just, Tom Kroll, my my coach, is like, yeah. You you don't have my it's like, you have to get my permission before you wanna partner with somebody for the next ten years.
Steve: So Yeah.
Matt: I was like, okay, Tom. So I'll listen to him. But, yeah, it was really and I even went into business with my dad at one point too, and and that business breakup was really hard. I and because I was like, okay. I have all this knowledge about how to do, you know, fix and flipping and wholesaling and creative finance and all these different things.
So I mean, I was buying houses myself, you know, without him before, but then I was like, we could really supercharge this if I bring my dad in, and he brings all this private money because he's a director at a a a mega church in Austin. And so he's, like, really well connected and stuff. So I thought, okay. Cool. Let's partner up.
Let's go do some business together. And I was like, I ended up doing all the work. And, you know, he said he was gonna do some stuff, and then, you know, it just it's one of those things where it's like, I always was the guy who was putting in more than anybody else. Mhmm. And it's like, okay.
The returns are very lopsided here, and it's just like it it was never a a fair arrangement. It's very difficult conversations I'd have to have with people just being like, hey. We just need to wrap this up and everything like that. But, yeah, if I had to do it all over again, I would really date the person first, so to speak, for at least probably two, three years working in some sort of JV type of arrangement before I'd ever partner up with them ever. So Yeah.
Yeah. Just lots of bad experiences with that.
Steve: So date first, do deals together first.
Matt: Lots of deals together.
Steve: Lots of deals together first. Yeah. Two or three years sounds like a long time.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I dated my wife for four years before I proposed to her. So Oh,
Steve: for sure. Yeah. It's a lifelong commitment.
Matt: It is a lifelong commitment.
Steve: Oh, yeah. But, yeah, on the partner side, I mean, what were besides misalignment or misunderstanding of, like, who's doing what Mhmm. What else were were there? Because those those are big ones. I think those are common ones.
But what else
Matt: were Personality styles. I mean, it was a big one. Like, now knowing all about, like, predictive index and and, like, the t a 12, which we have all of our candidates take and everything too, I wish I would have done that on all my partners because, like, we were complete polar opposites in so many ways, and, like, there's just a lot of different things that we we clashed on that I wish I would have known about beforehand. And I probably just could have, like, anticipated it, I think, a little bit more.
Steve: I don't think polar opposites are terrible. Like, what do what do you mean by polar opposites?
Matt: Actually, no. So the the worst one the worst arrangement I had was where I was an ops guy, and I had another ops guy that I was partnered up with. And I won't say his name, but, yeah, I know you know who he is. But, yeah, like, we were both ops guys, and it was just, like, pounding heads against each other to feel like, what do we wanna do? Mhmm.
It was, like, trying to have two cooks in the kick in the kitchen. Right? So and when we did that, the sales weren't happening the way they should have either because we were too focused on the ops. And so it's just it's just all lopsided.
Speaker: Yeah. Because I was I
Steve: was gonna say, like, I like it when there's two different personalities. Yeah. Because, like, because, like, you have too high a, you know, on the predictive index. You know, you have a venture and a maverick partners. Like Mhmm.
Who's gonna do the work? Yeah. Who's actually going to make sure things actually happen? Right.
Matt: So you need a strategist or somebody in there. Yeah.
Steve: So you look at, like, you know, like, RJ Bates and Cassie. Right? Like, they work well together. I'm trying to think of some other, like, really good partnerships. You know, get Carlos and Sal.
I know they got a really good thing going on. But, like, you know, for myself, you know, like, I was, an individualist. I say was because I I know Tess is a venture. Mhmm. Now Tess is an off the chart venture.
Matt: But I was a It doesn't surprise me.
Steve: So I was an individualist, and my partner was a maverick. Yeah. Right? And it works so long as our visions are in alignment. Yeah.
But it's really easy for the vision to fall out of alignment when you have two alphas Yeah. On the same company.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. That's something else you touched on too is, like, not having the same vision. Right? And this is part of the dating process too.
It's like, what's your mission? What's your vision for the company? What are the core values that the two of you share? And a couple of the part the instances of the partnerships they had, you were so not aligned on core values at all. And so it's like, when my partner would do something, it just really piss me off and be like, that's I would not be okay, you know, with that if it was in my household.
So it's like, why am I putting up with this in my business? And, eventually, it got to the point where I said, I couldn't deal with it anymore. So, yeah, I mean, that's a huge part of the dating process, I would say.
Steve: Got it. Okay. So multiple partners, and then you eventually partner with Mike. Mhmm. And then what was that business like?
Matt: It was slow, but we were really focused mostly on rental properties or anything else. And Mike was a big fix and flipper guy as well. So the margins we were trying to do, you know, were hundred hundred fifth I mean, 6 figures. You know? Those are the types of flips we were going after.
So we were very, very picky and selective about the deals we would go after, trying to tie them up with creative financing. You know, we had one deal, for instance, that it was in, it's a condo in Hawaii that we tied up with, zero money down, you know, type of situation, got the seller to take all of his equity in second lien position, brought in a first lien partner, you know, private money lender who I mean, so there was a $300,000 purchase, $60,000 that we borrowed for the renovations, and then we had a year that we didn't have to pay anything on on the money. So we just kept trying to flip that money over and over and over again kinda situation. So, like, those are the kinds of deals we're trying to put together. But because we were so picky with it, it was just like I again, this is sort of a misalignment that we had where it's like, I wanted to go a little bit faster.
He wants me to go a little bit slower, and then he wanted to go mid term rentals, and I wanted to go back to wholesaling and and, you know, wholesaling really more than anything else. And so, nothing wrong with that partnership. It was great. I love Mike to death, but, you know, we're still friends to this day. But They
Steve: don't have the discipline for the we're not gonna flip unless it's a 100 k.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: I just don't have that discipline. Oh, yeah. Just get antsy. Right? We have money in the bank.
The partners or we have lenders are lending us money. They're expecting some sort of return.
Matt: Yeah. Like Well, I was also one of those that I always had, like, a separate side gig. It always it all times too or, like, a full time job. So, like, I was working as a director of operations for a big real estate team at Compass. Mhmm.
Steve: At the
Matt: same time, I was working with Mike. And so, like, he was still kind of a side gig for me. And so I was like, if I'm gonna take the time to do this, I really wanna make sure that the returns are there, you know, because it was it was taking a lot of time to do both. And then, ultimately, what I realized is, like, you can't work for two masters. You gotta pick one.
Mhmm. I mean, ultimately, it was just like, as if I'm working on two things, I'm only, like, I'm I can't even be 50% as good on on both of them. Like, I suck at both. Right? So that's why I was like, after I realized, that was the big lesson I took away from working in Mhmm.
Method was, like, I finally said, okay. I'm gonna go all in on working with BRRRR Method with you and Eric. And, like, we grew that business, and it did pretty decent, I think, for, you know, a education company. And, but that was all I did. I didn't do any more flipping, wholesaling, nothing during that time.
I just solely focused on that. So Yeah.
Steve: So let's talk about that. So, you know, Eric and I, we launched Brew Method. I mean, it's all his IP. Right? Like, we launched it I wanna say August 2020.
Yeah. It was all his intellectual property. Right? That's what that's the reason why we call it brew method. Like, I actually came up with the name.
Yeah. Right? He's like, yeah. I do I do novations. Like, no one knows what novations means.
Right?
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Everyone knows what it means today. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, in 2020, no one knew what it was. Right?
Mm-mm. I was like, Eric, we can't call innovation. Yeah. It's a terrible name. Let's just call it something else.
Like, you're calling it something that's just a legal term.
Matt: Yeah. Alright.
Steve: Let's call it something else. Like, what do you wanna call it? I was like, I don't know. Brewer Method. Right?
Like, let's just throw your name on it, and that's what you do. And we did it, and we launched it. And, like, it it kills me today. Like, there are so many people, like, teaching innovations, making money for innovations. Man, like, we're not getting anything at brew method.
Matt: I know.
Steve: Right? Like, he was the one that brought it out there. But, anyway, that's besides the point. We launched it. You were one of the first people that bought it.
Mhmm. Right? Not only did you buy brew method, but even before brew method, you actually bought my sales training before that. Yeah. Alright.
So you're already, like Yeah. In my ecosystem. I already bought the training, bought the brew method, and then you came along and had came up with a proposal. Mhmm. So what was that situation?
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Matt: Yeah. So I was Mike and I both, like, we we saw you guys' little thing on Kartrite thing. It was, like, one of the ads, and they're like, hey. Clicked on it. And I was like, okay.
This is cool. If Steve's involved, I wanna be involved
Steve: in it.
Matt: Like, let's see what he's got. So, we Mike and I were like, hey. You wanna split the cost on this thing going on $50.50? And we weren't partners at the time just yet. We were just good friends.
So we did that, and then I started having some success doing novations just from the little it was $1,250 at the time. I still remember the price what you guys are charging for it. And so
Steve: That was the launch price.
Matt: That was the launch price.
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: That was
Steve: not the final price. That was the launch price.
Matt: No. It was not. Yeah. So it was $12.50, and I was in the eighty twenty investor academy with it, Dan Schwartz had. And so I started having some success doing these novations.
And I had multiple people approaching me inside of that, to that mastermind. And they were just like, hey. Can you teach me how to do this? And so I was like, yeah. Sure.
Not a problem. I was like so I came up with this strategy. It's like, hey. Let's do three deals together.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And the first deal, I'll do I'll make $70.30 on it. Next one, we'll do $60.40 in my favor. Next last one's $50.50. And I'll give you but you have to pay me 5 k upfront. And then once we do three deals together, I'll give you your 5 k back.
Mhmm.
Steve: And so
Matt: I had multiple people taking me up on this, and I was like, okay. There's an opportunity here. I was like, why doesn't Eric know about this? Why isn't aren't they doing something like that? And so the proposal was I had just approached Eric one day, and I was like, hey.
This is what I've been doing. Have you ever thought of actually turning this into, like, a real course, you know, type of situation? Not just like a a webinar that you did one time and kinda teach the basics of it, like a real true on course. And Yeah. I still remember this day.
He was just like, damn it. He's like, I've been thinking about this for the last ten years. He's like, I just I didn't wanna be the one to actually have to do it. He's like, you wanna be the who to my how. I was like, okay.
So and that's that's how that whole process started. So Yeah.
Steve: So and I'm thinking about this. Right? Because, like, we're talking about the partners and, like, getting, you know, dating and, getting the it's not just throwing your names on an LLC. Right? And I'm saying this because, like, we went through legal paperwork.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Steve: It was very lengthy Yeah. Legal paperwork.
Matt: Yeah. With an attorney that I chose and yeah. I remember.
Steve: Yeah. And I'm I'm bringing this up because you're talking about, like at first, it was just throwing names in an LLC. But by the time you got to us Yeah. It was was not, let's just throw names in an LLC. It was like, there's an attorney involved.
Everything was like, all the i's are dotted, all the t's are crossed, which is great. Like, I had no problems with it. It was just It was a lot. That experience is different than what you're saying earlier. I was like, I just threw, threw names in an LLC.
Yeah. So alright. Alright. So you got involved with your method, and you worked it for some time. Right?
Like, did well with the brew method. And then you went off to do So
Matt: it was during the brew method days where I, so I was Eric was the face of it. Myself and Benmont Locker, who I absolutely love Benmont. He's amazing. Best operational mind, I think, of anybody I've ever met. And so he and I were doing a lot of the actual teaching aspects of it.
And one of the things I kept noticing was, like, I was running all the Wednesday calls they were doing. And, we had usually fifty, sixty people, sometimes 70 people at a time showing up for these calls, and it was never hardly ever, you know, anything about novations. It was always questions about some sort of operational issue that they were having or a sales issue or this person sucks that I brought on my team, and what do I do with them now at this point? Or, hey. My marketing is not working.
Right? So it it very quickly turned into more like, okay. This is way outside the scope of what we said we were gonna do for novation training. Mhmm. And so it's like, there's an opportunity here.
And at the time and Eric called it when we first got started. He's like, man, we've maybe got a year's worth of runway here before other people start picking up notations because it's just like wholesaling. Once somebody knows how to do it, everybody's gonna, like, try and wanna teach it. Right? So he was right about that.
And we started to see you had, like, Rich Wanderers coming in, Novation King, and all that other kind of stuff and, a lot of good training around it, but it's like the message started to get diluted. And so I was like, I started started to kinda see the writing on the wall, and I was like, okay. And and, I mean, Eric and I, we're still friends to this day, but we were button heads again in, like, in very two very different styles. Right? And I wanted to train it one way.
You wanna train it a different way.
Steve: What's your PI?
Matt: My PI? I'm definitely a strategist through and through.
Steve: A strategist? Yeah. Alright. Okay. So you're you're guys button heads.
Yeah.
Matt: Yeah. We're we're button heads a little bit. But I was just like, you know, I see the writing on the wall. I think now is probably the best time to, like, kind of make a a pivot. This is after we've been doing it for two and a half years at this point.
So got it up towards about 1,000,000 a year in sales. I think it was somewhere around there, about 1,000,000. I can't remember exactly. But I was like, okay. I'm gonna take this idea that I've got around, like, operational training because I didn't see a need for it in the market.
Right? Or I saw a need for it in the market, but nobody else, like, really supplying it to the level that I was thinking it needed to be. Because I know I know you've got, like, you know, Gary Harper and and Gary and Susan Harper doing sharper, business solutions, and they do great some great work. But the clients that I was talking to in Brewer Method really needed a lot more hand holding than just EOS implementation and, you know, me for quarterlies and, like, a once a week level 10. They need somebody in the trenches with them helping them, holding their hand, essentially.
And so that's how Let's Grow COO was born, and that's my fractional COO company that we have to this day, and that's our one of our primary things that we do. And we just work with clients who are doing at least 250,000 a year, and, they wanna scale up to a million, 5,000,000, whatever it might be. But once you get past 5,000,000, that's something to say go work with somebody else who's a little bit more experienced taking you to that 10,000,000 type of level. But, that's the majority of people in 6 to 7 figures.
Steve: So then I'm guessing part of the experience here. So your experience with Tim Heil Mhmm. Probably handy. Yeah. Your experience with Compass.
Who was he, sir, a top producer at Compass? Yep. And then you gotta see behind the scenes working with Benmont and our brewer. Mhmm. So that's all probably really relevant experience.
Very. Very. And you counseled a lot of people through it. So let's talk about then. Like, why should someone get a fraction COO?
Because you kinda mentioned, like, Sharper. Like, I use Sharper. I love Gary. I love Susan. Amanda.
Like, absolutely instrumental to my business. Mhmm. They're not a fractional COO. They're consultants. Mhmm.
Hey. You should do this. Hey. Why aren't you doing this? Hey.
That's stupid. Yeah. They're really good at that.
Matt: Yeah. Let me level with you just for a second here. So the term fractional COO gets thrown around a lot in our industry. Like, it's a big fancy word and stuff like that. Ultimately, it's just a glorified executive assistant Mhmm.
Is really what it is. Okay. Like, let's just call it what it is. Right? Like, we're not talking 500 you know, Fortune 500 companies or anything like that.
I mean, we're we're working with 6 to 7 figure real estate investors. They just need a hand
Steve: in their
Matt: business to do the things. And they have blinders on in a lot of cases, and they don't know what they don't know.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And so having seen all the different facets of single family residential, you know, that world, that's where I was like, okay. I can actually come in there, hold their hand, and do it. Where you need where somebody needs a fractional COO is whenever you're just I call it the chief everything officer.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: You know, kinda bang your head against the wall, and you're, like, at that point where you're about to be burned out. Right? I would joke on our team. We call it solar printer burnout syndrome.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So it's like when you get to that point, you're just, like, ready to kinda throw in the towel. And it's like, man, I'm working I quit my w two job, or I was working forty hours a week to make half as much money working eighty hours a week for myself. It's like but I know that there's potential there. That's when it's time to call somebody.
Steve: That's a thing. Solepreneur burnout syndrome.
Matt: That's what we call it.
Steve: I don't think I've
Matt: ever experienced that. Because you always surround yourself with good people.
Steve: No. But even I think when I was my own, I was in a homeschool. Oh. Like, doing stupid things is like I don't know. Yeah.
But I
Matt: think your your your tolerance level for pain is, I think, pretty high. So because I think, like, one of
Steve: the Jason Medley was on this podcast, years ago. Right? Founder of Collective Gene. Mhmm. I remember asking this question.
It's like, what makes you different? Why do you win? Right? Because he was a transactional lender. He was a short sale specialist, and then now he's got, like, you know, the premier Mhmm.
Mastermind for, wholesaling. And where his answer was is, I'll just out suffer you. Yeah. I'll suffer. Anyone's like, yeah.
That resonates me. That makes sense. Mhmm. So when you talk about, like, burnout, it's just like, what's burnout? Yeah.
Okay. So describe, like, for someone who's listening, you know, like, how do you know you suffered solopreneur burnout syndrome?
Matt: Oh, man. So many different ways. Well, for me, whenever I started to experience it, it was I was getting really snappy with my wife and then my kids. You know, I was struggling to keep all the the plates spinning in the air at one time. Mhmm.
And any one little thing could come and just knock them down, and it would just it would set me back. I went to levels of depression, you know, that were really, really low points in my life. And this is kinda around the time that my my son was being born. He's seven now. So, about seven years ago, this is just like it was horrible, right, dealing with this.
And it was like, I was trying to manage being the transaction coordinator, plus I had my flipping stuff I was doing and wholesaling, all these sorts of things at the same time. That was a one man show. Right? And I I just I was trying to just muddle my way through it and figure figure out what to do, but it's like I didn't know what I didn't know, and I was too afraid to ask for help for fear of looking stupid. Really?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, now I know, like, that was that was just a form of weakness by, you know, being
Steve: pretty That was stupid.
Matt: Yeah. That part was very stupid.
Steve: So Well, I guess, you know, I I I have been very lucky, and I think maybe this is just being the oldest of six boys in the family. I wouldn't say I'm an excellent delegator. I'm probably more, at the time, an abdicator Mhmm. Grossly irresponsible in delegating. But, like, for me, you know, even when I had a bigger team, or not bigger team, when I would have bigger operation on my own, like, my thing always was I only hired I only partner with competent.
Yeah. So, like, I had a loan officer. They only had to mess up twice before I would just find a new loan officer. If I had a title off officer, they only had to mess up twice. Like, I just let them know, like, here's my expectation.
Mhmm. I'm gonna hand this file over to you. I don't wanna hear anything until, like, we're clear to close.
Matt: Yeah. See, not too nice. Like, I would I would give people way too many chances, and then eventually, I would just, you know, they would take my my kindness for weakness, and they'd walk
Steve: all over me. So I was a very patient and understanding person
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Right, with clients and so on. Yeah. But for vendors Mhmm. Or vendors is like, this is your job. Yeah.
You this is what you get paid to do, so I expect you to do job. This is why it was for for me the longest time. Having a hard time managing salespeople.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Steve: So the vendor Yeah. They have to make me happy Yeah. Or they lose my business. Yeah. Yeah.
Salespeople don't have that. Yeah. Same mindset. So so maybe I was just maybe just because of the the the you're right. Maybe I just surround myself with good people, but it was, like, it was always really high expectation.
Yeah. Like, if I have to ask you for updates Yeah. You're the wrong loan officer.
Matt: Well and something else, though, I think for me that that really caused this was and I know that, I can't remember the name of the guy who was on your podcast recently. He was talking about it, you know, the imposter syndrome
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: You know, as well. But that's a very real thing, I think, for a lot of of the people that I deal with, especially, you know, on the fractional COO side. Hell, I even still deal with it to this day even when I walk into CG. Sometimes I was like, why am I here? Like, these people are so many people are, like, way ahead of me in in terms of certain things, but then I have to remember to say, okay.
If I can help one person, you know, then it makes all the difference at that point. So, but it is a real thing, I think, with the the imposter syndrome as well as, wanting there's a lot of people pleasing, I think, that goes into it as well. And and I think there's a lot of people who are that way where it's like they just don't wanna rock the boat. They don't want to make waves for fear of hurting somebody's feelings or getting ostracized, you know, in the community. Because real estate's a small community.
Like, you you piss somebody off. Like, you're gonna hear about it from somebody else later on. So it's like, you know, how do you kinda balance all that? Yeah.
Steve: So I'll go back to symptoms. Right? So snapping and loved ones. Yeah. What else was there?
Matt: Oh, I was losing sleep at night like crazy. The other people that I I mean, that I know who have gone through this, extreme weight gain, extreme weight loss, you know, some of the other kinds of things too. Working all hours of the day and night just, burning the candle at both ends, just trying to keep all the plates, like I said, in the air. That was a big one. So Got it.
I mean, I was working at my the worst, I was working eighteen, twenty hours a day. Just trying to keep it all balanced.
Steve: Yeah. Yep. Got it. So then is this the same reason why people get stuck? Huge.
Yeah. So talk about it. People are stuck. There are two deals a month, three deals a month, can't quite pass that threshold. Mhmm.
What's happening?
Matt: Yeah. Usually, it's a lot of different things, but I think it's because they think that the the big thing I see a lot of times is they think that they can do it better than anybody else, right, in terms of talking to the sellers, prequalifying the leads, you know, handling the marketing that's going out, making sure that, you know, the con the contracts are done properly or, you know, working with the realtors and all those sorts of different things. And it's like they don't take the time to stop and just put your put everything on paper, like, how you do things Mhmm. And then delegate it off to somebody else. Right?
So that's that's a huge thing I see. What was the rest of the question that
Speaker: you got?
Steve: Think so why they get stuck? And I think the it's funny. Right? Like, no one could do it better than me. Mhmm.
Usually, it's pretty true in the beginning. Mhmm. It's pretty true in the beginning. And, like, this is something that I took away from Darren Hardy's training, like, a long time ago. Yeah.
It was insane productivity. Still one of the best trainings I've gone through. Yeah. And one of the things he said was that, yeah, like, you might be better than everybody, and it's because you're a narcissist. Right?
Yeah. And his point wasn't that you aren't better than people Yeah. At the job. Like, you probably are actually really good at it. Yeah.
But it's foolish to think there's nobody out there Yeah. That's better than you at this. Like Yeah. I think that's the part that's like, when you say it out loud, it's like, actually, does that even make sense? Mhmm.
Right? You're probably the best person in the company right now, but probably because you also you also didn't train them. Mhmm.
Matt: Yeah. Well, I mean, there's also a big fear of failure with it too. Right? It's like you want everything just to be perfect. There's a lot of perfectionists in this business too.
Not unless you're, like, a maverick or a venture. Talking about that. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, if you're like me, like, you're a strategist, like, I was a perfectionist. I wanted all my contracts, the the i's dotted, the t's crossed, everything had to be just right.
And it just slowed me down with everything that I was trying to do. You know, so the other thing is just not being willing to trust people and to to, like there's, you know, the old adage trust but verify. And a lot of people think they forget about it, but the verify part.
Steve: You know what I mean? I've been guilty.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. So it it's one thing to there's there's abdication, there's delegation. Right? Abdication is you just willingly give up your your responsibilities and just hope for the best, you know, on whatever's gonna happen.
Mhmm. Delegation is like you inspect what you expect. Right? And so that's one of the things that we teach. You know, putting the right KPI metrics in place and then regularly checking up on them and having the right meetings for that kind of stuff.
But, honestly, I think the big thing is just a big lack of knowledge. Right? There's just a huge knowledge gap on, okay, what got me here certainly isn't gonna get me there, but I don't know what how to fill that that span. Right? Mhmm.
And sometimes people are afraid to ask for help with that. And that's where like, that was where I was at. I made that huge mistake, and it it really stalled my growth
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: Not being willing to ask for help.
Steve: So how did you fix that?
Matt: I surrounded myself with people like you and and other people I got in masterminds. You know, I really got uncomfortable with being uncomfortable and getting in different rooms where I wasn't the smartest person in the room. Because for the longest time, I thought I had to be the smartest person in the room. And that kinda goes back to my days, you know, in high school and the corps of cadets is, like, I thought I had to be the best. And quickly, you find out as you grow up, it's like, okay.
Well, you're probably not gonna be the best. There's always somebody who's better than you anyway, so you might as well check your ego at the door Mhmm. And and be willing to open yourself up. You know, I can't remember what the exact verbiage was, but it's like, you know, you can't do much when you're you, you know, you can't shake somebody's hand when your fist is closed. Right?
You know? But when you open it up and you open yourself up, you can get a lot of more things done. Right? And so I think when people finally open themselves up to making that happen, it's a lot easier to go from point a to point b much, much faster.
Steve: Well, I think the master mastermind point is important. Yeah. Because there's something that happens. Like, we we we grow up our whole lives, and we and what we believe is possible is limited to who we grew up with. Right?
Matt: Like our
Steve: parents, our aunts and uncles, our classmates, and this and that. Right?
Matt: Like,
Steve: that's what's normal. It's it's greedy to want these things. Mhmm. In order to be successful, you have to take advantage of other people. Right?
Yeah. There's all this self talk. And then you get into a mastermind. It's like, that guy's not smarter than me. Yeah.
He's ethical. Yeah. Right?
Matt: Yeah. How's how's this c or d you know, person who's making c's and d's in high school, and I made straight a's. Yeah. How are they how are they doing all this stuff? You know?
And, like, they're no smarter than me. In fact, they're probably less smart than me, and they're, like, rushing it right now. You know?
Steve: Yeah. So that is the first time where, like, your your brain accepts that there's more possible Yeah. And has nothing to do with your intelligence. Mhmm.
Matt: Nothing at all. Yeah. And that's where you really start to understand too. It's like one plus one truly can't equal three.
Steve: Right.
Matt: Yeah. It's it's the compound effect. You know? And I think that's ultimately, you know, there it's it's cliche. I know.
But, you know, your your network is your net worth. Mhmm. But, man, I tell you, getting in the right rooms with the right people and rubbing shoulders with people who are doing way more than you are, but you can still see that they're grounded and they're awesome human beings. Like, everybody puts their pants on the same way every day is kinda what I have to remind my kids. It's like, don't treat anybody else differently than how you treat, you know, your brother or sister, whoever.
Right? Yeah. So and that makes a huge difference.
Steve: Or maybe treat your brothers and sisters like the way you treat other people.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. That too.
Steve: But, like, you know, we're talking about predictive index, so we haven't really spent all the time explain explaining it. So people are newer to the episode, like, what are new to the show? What is what is predictive index?
Matt: So predictive index, there's two parts to it as well. When we're when we're hiring people, we always put put them through it. And, also, when we're evaluating our team, it's an assessment. It it it's assesses your behavioral aspects and tendencies as well as your cognitive aspects. So it's not a an IQ test.
Right? But it has it tells me how quickly somebody's gonna pick something up. Because the last thing I wanna have whenever I bring a new person on on board is, like, don't want them asking me over and over again how to do the same thing two, three, four, five times. Right? So, there's certain profiles for different jobs that that that predictive index has done a great job figuring out, you know, where somebody's gonna fit out in the organization.
So I don't they took a took away to a lot of me how to do that homework. They did it for me, essentially. So I run people through the big hit, predictive index behavioral assessment. I give them the cognitive assessment, and I can very quickly tell, okay, who's gonna be a good fit in my organization, who's not. At its core, that's really what it is.
Steve: And you say you're a strategist. So what does that mean?
Matt: Oh, gosh. So I'm not a PI expert when it comes to knowing all, like, the a, b, c, d, all that kind of stuff, but I am very precise, but I can also be social. So I'm a little bit of a, ambivert, if you will. Right? So I'm I I can be both extrovert and introverted in in certain situations, but I'm very precise.
I can be social, but I'm also extremely driving. Right? So and if you look at, like, the disc profile as well, I'm a high d, high c. Mhmm. So, very direct, but I'm also very cautious with the rules and wanting to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed.
It's a really weird thing.
Steve: It is. So this so for people that are watching the show, or you look at people who've been on the show, so Jason Medley, strategist, Frank Cava, Stephanie Butters, Manda Dean. These are all strategies on the show. My wife is a strategist. And so what what does that mean, like, for her?
I've said this to her. Like, she wants it done her way right now, which is also the right way. Right? There's no other way. Very demanding.
Right? And then so, like, I've said, like, I'm an individual's venture, which means, like, I'm a, I wanna do it my way, and I have no desire for social approval. And good enough is good enough. Right? It doesn't have to be exact.
It doesn't even have to be great. It just has to not be awful. That's the standard. Right? And so when you guys are here here ensembles or Mavericks.
Right? But and if we talk about Mavericks, basically, like, everyone else on the show has been a Maverick. And then one thing that you I heard you say is, like, hiring a closer is not this magic pill that everyone thinks it is.
Matt: The like, what I've come to learn is that a players only wanna work for a players. Right? And everybody talks about, oh, I want an a player closer in my in my organization. Most organizations are not ready for an a player because the a players that I've worked with are literally making 3 to $500,000 a year in, you know, in acquisitions closing crazy amounts and putting up huge numbers. Right?
I mean, we're talking the Kobe Bryants, you know, of of real estate. So you can't drop a Kobe Bryant into a really crappy, you know, NBA team and then just expect them to turn things around immediately. It's gonna take a lot of work, and it's an outsized amount of work that they have to put in or get things turned around. Eventually, they're gonna get burned down. They're gonna they're gonna wanna go work for somebody else.
Right? And so what we've seen is that it's better to fix the operations first before you drop that a player in because this if you drop an a player into chaos, I mean, you're just gonna have more chaos. Mhmm. It's really what we found. Yeah.
So, that's why, you know, anytime we're working with somebody, it it's really important that we kinda do a business tune up with them, kinda get their get things back on track to where you know, like, take the blinders off of, you know, what of that knowledge gap of not knowing, like, what needs to be fixed in order to make sure that I can actually handle an a player. Right? So that's what we that's where we start.
Steve: So then how do I know when I'm ready for an a player?
Matt: That's a good question. When you got your financials dialed in I mean, financials is the first thing I I always start with.
Steve: Is it? Because, like, there's that's that's, like, the most allergic part of most real estate investors.
Matt: I know. I know. But, like, I'm gonna go in. I'm gonna pick apart your p and l and your balance sheet, and I'm gonna really figure out, okay, where where where are the holes in here. Right?
Because you gotta get really strategic about, you know, how am I how am I, one, gonna be able to afford an a player? Because an a player is gonna expect a lot of leads. Right? And leads are expensive. Right?
So that's sort of why I start with with that first. You know, from there, I'd I'd like to break down what are you where are you spending your time as the owner in the business? You know, that's something else that's huge. So we do what's called a freedom focus or exercise with every single one of the the clients that we work with. You read Dan Martel's book, buy back your time or heard of it before?
Mhmm. It's fantastic. So it's basically an exercise where we do that, where we do and it sucks. I'm not gonna lie. You do you're tracking exactly what you're doing every single fifteen minutes from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed, and you're doing it for two weeks.
Mhmm. It's a lot of work. Right? But then when we go through it, we can really start to see, okay, where are you actually spending your time? And and then we divvy up your time based on not just, like, what the dollar per hour value is of the company, but in also, like, an energy audit.
And energy is super important with what we do because, like, if you wanna if you don't wanna get burned out, you gotta make sure you're doing the things that you absolutely are, like, kind of in your genius zone, if you will. But if it's things that you don't like to do, then it's like, let's get those off your plate. If not now, but at least let's kinda have a plan for it. Right? And so very quickly, we can see, you know, where that time is being spent.
And one of the things we're looking forward to is, like, what we call a buyback rate with that. So we take here's a dollar per hour value for all those sorts of all these tasks that you were doing. We'd get rid of all the stuff that you need to delegate off to somebody else, and, typically, we'll call your buyback rate. Essentially, it's the dollar per hour value that you could be paying to somebody else to be doing all these other tasks. Right?
I'm usually looking, like, for a five x return on what those tasks were in versus or, basically, five x returns. So I wanna pay 20% of whatever my dollar per hour value is. That's what I can afford to pay somebody else. Right? So if I can do that, then my value dollar per hour value actually goes up, and the amount of time I have to work in the business usually goes down, which means that now I can put more of my time into higher value activities to grow the company.
Right? So or just to have the lifestyle that I was looking for. You know? Unless we just get into that just for a lifestyle business.
Steve: Let me play contrarian here.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: And maybe I'm just arguing out of selfishness.
Matt: Okay.
Steve: I've never once been able to finish that exercise over fifteen minutes. Not once.
Matt: I I get it.
Steve: I've tried multiple times. But I went through strategic coach
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: With Dan Sullivan. Yep. If you remember that program. Yep. And then he's been, like, the brains behind you know, like, 10 x is better than two x, the gap and the gain.
And what was the other one that's a really big one? Shoot. Who not how? Not how. Yeah.
Right? So, like, he was the brains behind those books. Right? Like, doctor Ben Hardy wrote the books, but yeah, Dan Sullivan was the brain. So I went through his program back in 2019.
Mhmm. And it was helpful. And the exercise I like from him was much more preferable, which was you took, you had four different categories. You had unique ability, right, which is union zone activity. Yeah.
Excellent. This is stuff you're really good at and people will pay you for. Mhmm. At competent, which is like you do it, but no one's gonna hire you for it. Mhmm.
And you got incompetent, which is like you just suck at this. Yeah. Are you either suck at it or it just drains your battery? Yeah. Right?
Mhmm. And, basically, what it was is, like, you sit down for fifteen minutes, and you just think about everything you do at your company, in a day, in a week, in a month, a year, and you just fill it all out. Mhmm. Right? And you do that, and then you're gonna have, like, oh, I also do this.
And then you just update the list. Right? Because it's not like you have a fifteen minute assessment test. Mhmm. You have to turn it in.
Right? That's what I like about it. So, like, you could just keep updating it. Yeah. I found that one.
Maybe I'm just lazy, but I found that exercise to be a lot more helpful. I think at least I'm, like, bang for the buck. Mhmm. Bang for the effort. Like, Yeah.
It didn't take more than half an hour to actually document everything I do.
Matt: Yeah. I actually I actually run a a challenge, like, a five day challenge with people,
Steve: and
Matt: that's what we do instead of, like, the full on two week, you know, thing. But, like, when we're working with fractional COO clients, and, honestly, by the time you get to, like, day three or four, most of the time, you're just gonna be like, okay. Screw it. I know exactly all the places where I'm screwing up anyway. It's like, okay.
I've I've now I'm creating my delegation list of all the things I need to hand off to, like, an executive assistant or something like that. So, honestly, you know, you asked, like, how do I know when it's time for me to hire an a player? It's like when you're overworked and you've got too many things going on, but you're doing at least, let's say, 250,000 a year in your business and you're but you're like, okay. I can see a path for this to really scale this up.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Your first hire, I would actually argue, should probably be an executive assistant, not a not a salesperson Mhmm. In most cases. I don't care if that's, like, a virtual assistant in The Philippines or something like that, but you gotta get somebody to take off all these little things off your plate that are just way below, you know, your, your your your pay grade is just way too high for for doing some of these things.
Steve: Right?
Matt: Yeah. So a lot of I would say anything that involves a computer, admin wise, get it off your plate. Like, give that to somebody else, free up all that time, and then go do more sales and stay in, you know, with acquisitions. From there, once you've got more leads coming in than you can handle, and you're still closing now two, three a month consistently, now it's like, okay. Now let's look at maybe bringing on a closer at that point.
Steve: Right. And I think probably just in the spirit of where
Matt: we're just
Steve: getting AI involved. Oh, yeah.
Matt: Yeah. In a big way.
Steve: They do a lot of this work as well. Yeah. Yeah. You have have you found any AI tools you really like for this?
Matt: Oh my gosh. So, of course, yours. I mean, we're like, I I signed up for yours, and it's been absolutely huge. Yeah. Not only that, but, I mean, we're using it as part of our interview process with candidates, our hiring acquisitions.
So we do a first round interview. I wanna check and see, okay. Do they get get it wanna have the capacity of the job? Before I ever meet with them to do the second round interview to, like, really test their sales skills, I have them do a mock call with your AI bot.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And it's phenomenal, like, how they do. And it's like, you have to pass at least a 70 or more to even get a a second round interview with me. And, like, I don't know if that's good or not. I mean, I'm still learning your system. No.
Steve: 70 is like, okay. They have some chops. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: Exactly. So that's not good. Do you have instincts? Yeah. You got instincts.
Like, I can work with that. Like, we can we can really take this to the next level if that's the case. And then, but, yeah, it's been huge. And I I honestly think that in the next I think the next three years, you're gonna be a really big tidewater moment for the real estate industry, especially for investing. I think wholesaling is gonna be I don't know about outlawed, but certainly regulated almost out of existence to some degree.
And so and I think AI is really gonna start to take more and more of the different jobs that are inside of a real estate investing company as it is. Lead managers are the first ones that are gonna go in a lot of cases. So and yeah.
Steve: For better or for worse. Yeah. That's what I'm working on.
Matt: Well, I mean, I've seen at least in, you know, my business and because I still have a small wholesaling team. I've seen in my business and and the businesses of our clients that the AI does better than human lead manager
Steve: in a
Matt: lot of cases. So Yeah. The conversations are better, cleaner, and I don't care what anybody says. Like, we've seen the data to say that, okay. Sellers have no problem talking to an AI bot.
Like, they really don't. They, in fact, in some cases, they prefer to talk to the AI versus a human.
Steve: Yeah. I know. It's funny to hear that argument. Right? They're like, oh, they'll never talk to an AI bot, but then Yeah.
If you think about, like, when you call in for a prescription update Mhmm. Would you rather talk to somebody, or do you rather, like, just refill my update?
Matt: Just refill it. Exactly. Right?
Steve: Yeah. It's like it's I don't wanna talk to a person. Yeah. Like, if talking to a person is gonna take me longer, I'd rather just talk to a machine.
Matt: A 100%.
Steve: Or the other thought experiment I have with somebody, because I don't know. I'm I'm this this this person that's just pushing this dystopian future or this really dark future. This is Black Mirror.
Matt: Terminator style. Yeah.
Steve: But, like, I was talking to him. He's like, oh, but you will never replace, like like, a Starbucks risk. Not because, like, you can't replace the labor part, but, like, people want the human interaction. Right? That was his part.
I was like, well, people like the, you know, the cheery, you know, college aged employee to, you know, Fiji, whatever. And I asked him, like, well, if that person was connected to Neuralink, would you still feel that way? He's like, I guess they're connected to Neuralink. I still want that first. I was like, okay.
So then if you take, like, a robot that looks like a human, like, like, where are we at? He's like,
Matt: I don't know. Did you see that new humanoid robot that came out recently? That X
Steve: Plane Iron? I haven't looked at it yet. I saw, like It's,
Matt: like, $20,000 old Folger laundry Oh, the deal. Stuff. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. So I went to go preorder that. Oh, you did? I went to go preorder it.
Matt: Oh my gosh.
Steve: And what stopped me was that I have to agree to let them access all the video recordings in my house. Okay. No. Thank you. Right?
Just to show, like, they know what they're doing, like, opening the fridge, folding. Food prep was really what I need. Right? So, like, the food prep, the laundry, the landscaping, the pool. But in order to have that, they require to send it back.
Yeah. So I'm not signing up for that.
Matt: No. I'm not doing that either.
Steve: So we'll see where the optimist lands, whether they require Mhmm. Transmission back to Elon because, like, I love Elon. Like, you know, I think the guy is amazing. Yeah. But I don't want him to have access to video footage inside my household.
Matt: No. I don't either.
Steve: So if we can have a closed network, Optimus, we're good. Yep. But this thing, like, we're gonna stream your house
Matt: to some
Steve: other place nearby or not nearby. Some other place across the country, probably in Austin, Texas. Yeah. Yeah. I'm good.
I don't need that right now.
Matt: Yeah. We're already starting to see crazy stuff popping up around Austin. I'm just gonna think it's crazy.
Steve: Yeah. So I wanna ask you another question here. Yeah. You go through their p and l and their books. Is that before or after they hire you?
Matt: Hey. My name is Brian. I'm a real estate investor. Ian's sales training has helped me buy more houses at a deeper discount. Most recently, Ian helped me reframe a question which resulted in me buying a house for less money than other other offers the seller had on the table.
If you're considering sales training, I don't think you can go wrong with agents.
Steve: If you like what you just heard and would like similar types of success, text close to 33777, and we'll see if you qualify to join objection proof selling. We're taking good sales reps, and we're making them objection proof.
Matt: That's after they hire me.
Steve: Because I was gonna say, if it was a condition for hiring No. No. You would never get hired.
Matt: No. No. It's after they hire us. No. I'm just I'm really looking for we're we're gonna be be more defensive with the money.
And it's amazing how often I see, like, people have multiple subscriptions for very similar things. And it's like, dude, you're spending a $150 a month here, $90 a month here on stuff that's very similar. It's like, can we just pick one or the other? Right? Like, what's gonna move the needle the most?
And I'm a huge proponent of, like, the Pareto principle, the eighty twenty, you know, principles. Like, what's the 20% that's gonna move the needle 80% more is kinda how I look at it. And so that's what we're looking at through those that lens when I'm going through the through the books with somebody. So and I'm not the one doing it anymore. I've got other people on my team who are much better at it than me.
But, you know, the goal is, like, let's try and get defensive because, I mean, we're also in a really tough market right now. And, man, it's just like the expenses just blow over, and it's like it makes things so much harder. But it's like, if you can sleep a little bit better now, it's okay. I I'm I'm running a lean, mean team here, then it's like, now we can we can try to scale up from there.
Steve: Yeah. So, part of then hiring, let's grow COO or acquisitionreps.com is you would come in and actually review the books with them. Mhmm. And I think that's huge because if there's one thing we don't wanna do as business owners is actually touch the books. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm not gonna figure it to you.
Matt: Fix the books for you, but I'm gonna look at it and be like, oh, you need to hire, you know, you know, Beck's CFO or something like that or or or simple CFO to come in and kinda hang you know, clean up this this stuff for you. Mhmm. You know, but it's just having a separate set of eyes. And I think that's where, you know, us as fractional COOs, we can come in and we can look at it from that lens of what we've seen work in other businesses. And I said, most operators focus like a racehorse.
They just got the blinders on. They know exactly where they wanna go, but then they get off course, and they're just like, man and then they run into the wall, and it's like, you know, k. Well, it happens now. They don't know what to do. And so that's where we're there to kind of, you know, be that jockey to kinda keep on course.
Steve: So for someone listening, let's just more distinctly describe. What is it exactly I get if I hire, acquisitionreps.com?
Matt: Yeah. So acquisitionreps.com is another arm of Let's Grow COO. So with acquisitionreps.com, you familiar with closers.io?
Steve: Or before? Is that Kohl's?
Matt: That's Kohl Gordon's company. Yeah. Very similar to that. It's just we're solely focused on the acquisition rep side of things. So the big thing with what we do is, like, we're all about we're gonna training or finding somebody, training them, placing them, and holding them accountable to hitting their metrics at least for the first 90.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: So when you hire acquisitionreps.com what here let me back up. One of the things that we noticed in our the fractional COO consulting that we were doing, and we were we were also placing reps with people as well, but we noticed that you can't have sales without ops. Both of them have to go together. Right? And so we were running the operations side, but then people were asking for sales help.
And so it's like we gotta marry the twosome. That's how acquisitionreps.com was born. So the way that we help with the ops side first, kinda going back to what I was mentioning at the beginning, is, like, you have to clean up the operations first. We do a full business tune up, but that looks like it's twelve hours. We're sitting down with a fractional COO.
We're unpicking we're picking apart, like I said, what are the KPIs you need that you need to be hitting based on what are your net profit goals you're looking at. Right? Not revenue. Revenue is one of those vanity metrics, you know, that everybody talks about. Right?
It's, like, no. What's what do you wanna actually put in your pocket at the end of the day? And let's work the numbers backwards from there to find out, okay. How many acquisition agents do you need? What does the team need to look like?
What does the full org chart need to look like? How many you know, what does your mailing budget need to look like? All this kind of your marketing budget, all those different things. And we look at it through the lens of Profit First as well. Right?
So Profit First for Real Estate, David Richter's book. Fantastic. If you guys haven't read it, it's awesome. But looking at it through that lens, now we can say, okay. This is where I wanna go.
Now I have to make sure that I have the right message behind me so that I can attract the right people. Right? That's the other thing too. So we're really big on working on what's your mission, you know, for your business and the vision for it, where you want it to go, What are your core values? Make sure that everybody can be in alignment around those things.
Because if you can't hire and fire to your core values especially, then you don't really have a business as far as I'm concerned, because it makes it really tough to attract those a players as well. So we we really go through those, then we do what we call the, the freedom focuser exercise we were just talking about with tracking your time, creating that delegation list. Ideally, we're gonna go hire an executive assistant before we ever bring on an acquisition agent, get a lot of that stuff off your plate. Because now if I can have the owner, who did owners in most cases, are usually Mavericks as well. Mhmm.
And so they're usually pretty good at sales in a lot of cases. So if we can have the owner doing sales and an acquisition agent doing sales, now we can double the sales in a hundred days the time we bring on a new acquisition agent. Got it. That's how we do it.
Steve: Got it. Yeah. So that's how we're able to double your deal flow in a hundred days is Yeah. More or less free out the business owner Mhmm. To do the highest revenue driven activities versus the Bingo.
Sitting in the books. That's it. Messing around with the marketing. Yep. Talking to the vendors.
Matt: Yep. All that. Yep.
Steve: Got it. Yeah.
Matt: And that's another big part of what we do with it too is we do what we call growth audits. A growth audit is gonna be where we come in and we do for an hour at a time, we're gonna look for an hour ad, your HR, what's your marketing look like, what's your marketing ROAS, you know, return on ad spend look like. If you're not tracking that, we're gonna put those different things in place for you. You're I'll look at all your KPIs. Like, are you actually tracking KPIs?
And it's amazing to me still how people are not tracking numbers. And it's like, if you're not tracking your numbers, you don't have a business. You have a a high paying hobby
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: As far as I'm concerned. So, looking at, like I said, the finances as well. And then for operationally speaking, it's like who's handling all the different little pieces of of the business, and then we come in and do a full sales audit as well. So that's where we sit down. We're gonna actually look through the CRM, and we're gonna say, okay.
Where are the leaky buckets in in your CRM where leads are kinda falling through the cracks? What does your, compensation structure look like for your acquisition agents as well? Because the other thing too that I think is one big thing that irks me a lot, and right now, I'm gonna be kinda contrarian here for a second. But ten ninety nine ten ninety nine kind of independent contractors, everybody wants to hire, you know, nobody somebody without having to pay them, you know, a living wage right now. And I think especially in this good economy, you're having you're gonna have a really, really hard time attracting good people without some sort of base because it's just hard to get by.
You know? And so at least creating some sort of structure where, you know, even if it's, like, $23 a month, at least initially for the first ninety days to kinda get their get them up running, let them build up their pipeline, and then maybe going down to, like, minimum wage is a draw against commission, something like that. But that way, you at least have them as a w two employee as well. Right? Because the other thing with ten ninety nine, you can't control what hours do they work.
You can't control do they wear a uniform? Kinda what see what CRM are they working in? How do they work the CRM? As soon as you give somebody an email address for your company, by law, they're a de facto employee. Right?
And so we had instances in the past where, acquisition agents would leave a company, and then they'd try to go claim unemployment. Right? And that's a fun that's a fun conversation with the state they're trying to deal with
Steve: as well. So No. It's that's the risk. Yeah. Every time you hire someone, it's ten ninety nine.
Just know that Yeah. This next person you hire, when things go south, commission disagreement. Mhmm. Is a risk to go to the, the state Yeah. Unemployment office.
Yeah. Exactly. Every single one.
Matt: Yeah. It's not a fun conversation.
Steve: It's like everyone that you you go through
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Your odds of getting a conversation from the, unemployment office. Mhmm. Because they don't just come after you for that one. They come after you for every single one prior.
Matt: Yep. They do a full audit, and it's not fun
Steve: at all. Chris Jefferson I know. Went through that scenario. Yep. That was awful.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we talked about, like so that's less core COOs. Okay.
So going back then, like, how does it work than, like, acquisition reps?
Matt: Yeah. So that's so that's what we do with the business tune up at the very beginning. Right? All those things, the growth audits, the reviewing the P and Ls, all that kind of stuff, that's part one. Right?
So that's part one. Part two is we're gonna go in, and we're actually gonna start sourcing talent, try and find those a players. And so our interview process is really specific. And I can tell everybody here for like, if you wanna do it on your own, like, even if you don't wanna hire me, like, go through a very structured interview process. We have a scorecard we do it for as well.
So we have and I'm happy to give this to your audience as well. We would like a our candidate scorecard, but they have to go through a screening process first. And the very first thing we have them do is we have them take predictive index. Right? I want them looking for mavericks, captains, persuaders, and promoters.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Right? In that order. Right? Mavericks and captains first for promoters and persuaders. Sometimes we'll do, like, a venture and strategist, surprisingly, or kinda like those secret, like, ninja agents who can really do a really good job, but they get burned out kinda quick.
So They're good.
Steve: They can be very serviceable, but their upside's not there.
Matt: No. Yeah. I know. So that's why I'm like, it really depends on the person, right, and what kind of experience they have. But so PI is first.
They gotta pass behavioral and the cognitive portion. I'm usually shooting for, like, two fifty on the cog, which is a little bit higher than what other people might say. But because I want somebody who's gonna pick things up really fast.
Steve: Like, I don't want struggle with sub two fifty.
Matt: I know. I know. That's why I don't do it anymore. I was doing, like, one eighty to two twenty before. Yeah.
The one eighty was, like, really bad. So I was like, I learned my lesson with that one. So but we were doing two twenty, and then I was like, even two twenty, we were struggling with. And it's like, let's just up it a little bit. Now, you know, something I tell people a lot of times is, like, we're not looking for the best of who applied.
We're looking for the best. Right? That's what looking for an a player is. So it may take three, four months before you really find that that true a player, You're gonna have to sift through a lot of dirt right before you find that gold. So just get ready for it when you do that.
So that's, you know, the first part of the screening process. I'm also looking forward to have, you know, five plus years of sales b to c sales experience, which is really important. I don't want anybody who has any real estate experience whatsoever.
Steve: All your sales experience, but no real estate experience?
Matt: No real estate experience whatsoever. Interesting. Yeah. We've had nothing but problems with with, like, realtors who come in, anybody who has a real estate license, mortgage loan officer license, things like that. They Defense of problems.
Oh my god. They think they they think that they know better than you, which is about everything. And they think that the, Are you saying realtors like you? Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I can say that having been a realtor as well. So yes. Absolutely.
Steve: For the record, I'm a realtor as well. Yeah. Licensed, I mean, what I do with it? I don't know.
Matt: Yeah. I'm licensed. Yeah. But I don't I don't use anymore. But, yeah, it's they just come with bad habits that we have to train out of them in a lot of cases.
And so it's just it's not worth the hassle, and I don't you know, what's from what we've seen anyway. And then I find a lot of times, surprisingly, the best reps I've ever had were former police officers, firefighters, and former military NCOs, non commissioned officers.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Because they're dealing with the same type of demographic that that most you know, like, that we're trying to go after as wholesalers and investors. Right? Yeah. Distressed types of people who are in really crappy situations, they know how to do, you know, risk mitigation, conflict resolution, all that kind of stuff, and they're really good at talking people down, right, while also being assertive enough to kinda move the move the conversation along well enough too. So we do that.
Also, lot of, door to door sales. I love Mormons. Mhmm. And Mormons are the best. They are.
Steve: Yeah. That's not fair. They really have an unfair value.
Matt: They really do. They really do. Yeah. Solar sales guys, that kind of stuff too, and also car sales. You know, those are the kind of the big ones, I would say, what we're looking for.
And then I wanna see that they haven't had more than two jobs in the last three years. So I wanna see that they're gonna be able to stick with it at least. So that's our screening process alone right there. If they pass all of that, then they get invited to do a first round interview with somebody on my team.
Steve: That's just a filter.
Matt: That's just the filter.
Steve: Yeah. That's just the hiring criteria. That's just the filter. Okay.
Matt: That's just the filter.
Steve: Yeah. Alright.
Matt: Yeah. Intense. Yeah. It is very intense. So first round interview, and they have to pass 80% or higher at every level before they move on to get another interview.
So it's it's a lot. So and like I said, maybe 5% actually make it to the final round interview with one of our clients. So, first round interview, I wanna test. Did they get it? Wanted to have the capacity to do the job?
Basic things. Like, did they even look at the the, did they even look at the job ad as one of those things? What's their understanding of how all this works? And, you know, just asking questions, you know, how do they do in their last, you know, last roles? I'm also looking for a lot of past issues with other employers too.
You know? So that's just a a very kind of basic first round interview. There's nothing super crazy about it. But then after that, that's when we send them the TA 12 assessment from team architects to take. And this is it's not a pass fail for us.
This is just I wanna see, okay, what jobs are they actually gonna fit inside of a real estate organization? Because they might not be great for acquisitions, but they might be great for dispo. Right? Or they might be good as a executive assistant, sales trainer, TC. I don't know.
Right? You really don't know those those things until you kinda look by look at those profiles. We have them do a listening test through the Oxford. Oxford University has a listening test that we do too, and they have to score at least, I think, a 90 on that because acquisitions is all about listening to people. Right?
And you do less talking, more listening. And so I wanna see, like, what's their grasp of the English language as well if we're gonna do that. They pass those mock sales call with your AI bot, with objection proof AI. It's it's a game changer, and that's where we lose a lot of people. So just we just do.
Yeah. But it really is a good gauge of whether or not they can actually hang with it. Now I send them your script before they actually get on. Oh, okay. So I sent them the script.
I say, okay. Here's, you know, Linda Linda Johnson, right, the the widowed homeowner, you know, who's behind on payments, and this is a scenario. Kinda be ready for it. But that's all they get. And it's like, now go at it.
And then if they pass that, now we move on to the second round interview, and I'm gonna really that's where I actually get on them with them right now.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And I grill them on previous sales ability. Like, what's their CRM hygiene like? You know, all different kinds of questions around sales. If they pass through me at that point, or whoever's conducting that interview, now it's like, okay. We've done everything we possibly can, and now I just I'm gonna send it on to the client to take a look at it.
And then we put a full packet together, send it over to them, and say, okay. This is who we think is a good fit for you. Honestly, in in a ninety day period, they may get three to five candidates that are, like, really top notch that we found if maybe that much. Sometimes it's, like, two or three. Right?
But that's what they're paying us to do is to really vet these people. Third round is I we sit down with them, and we do a culture fit interview. And so I call this getting the book. So if you're familiar with Keller Williams, like, how their hiring process works as well What's that
Steve: book on hiring?
Matt: It is we just call it getting the book on this first and, like, what's your operating system? Is this Candid's operating system? So and, like, I wanna know if I for instance, like, if I have, you know, some, you know, negative feedback that I need to bring to you, how do you want me to handle that with you? Mhmm. Little things like that.
So thing like, we talked about, like, dating, you know, to you know? Like, I was I had a hard time dating people, like, whenever Friday this week on the business with them. It's it works the same way with candidates. Yeah. Right?
So I wanna make sure that, you know, we're actually doing a really good job of fully understanding this person. And the culture part is where I think a lot of entrepreneurs miss out on because if you don't have a good culture fit, your your business is gonna suffer massively. And the cost of a bad hire, especially in sales, is easily in the mid 6 figures, sometimes in the lows, I'm sorry, mid 5 figures, low 6 figures. So if you if you do it wrong.
Steve: Oh, absolutely. It's expensive. Yeah. And it's it's interesting. The stuff you're talking about is, the I learned some of it, right, from the recruit select.
Mhmm. So I went through the Keller Williams program. Oh, I
Matt: went through it four times.
Steve: Did you? Yeah. I never went through the second part. I went through recruiter. I never went through the second.
Matt: Yeah. Train lead manage, RSTLM. Yeah.
Steve: But I'm because when they were recruiting me pretty heavily, they were, like, putting me in all these things. Hey. Mhmm. So I'll check that out. Yeah.
That's how cool Keller Williams is. The the hot tip, I think, for everyone that's listening, you said something that I haven't heard any heard anyone say before was the police and firefighter Oh, yeah. The avatar. Yeah. I think that's a big one.
Matt: You had Brandon Schwamm on your show. Mhmm. And he was one of my clients that I was working with, and his that it was his best acquisition guy. Mike was an, he was a cop, and I think in, in Massachusetts. I think outside of Boston for, like, eight years.
Mhmm.
Steve: And then
Matt: he came to work for Brandon, and the guy crushed it. I mean, whenever I was working with him, he was easily making $3.50 a year, and that was after being in the business for two years. Yeah. Two years, making $3.50 a year in in acquisition commissions. I think this year, when I talked to Brandon last, like, he was on track to make half 1,000,000.
Yeah. It was crazy.
Steve: That's that's incredible. That's a huge market. The other one was a listening test.
Matt: I've heard that before. Yeah. So it's I'm I'm looking for, like, upper intermediate is, like, what the score is on that. It's 24 questions, and they actually have to listen to how somebody's talking. It's not even a native, like, English like, US speaker, but that's why they do it.
It's like they wanna listen for, like, the words that are being said, what's the context of it, you know, were things taken out of context. So that way we can figure out, okay, how well are they actually listening. You know? Because, like I said, acquisitions is 70% listening, 30% talking. And every time you're talking with a seller, you're trying to move them up that, you know, the emotional pain ladder, if you will, you know, to try and get them moved into the direction of making a sale happen.
Steve: Yeah. No. That's huge. Absolutely huge. Because I think about, like, you know, some of the sales that we lose.
Like, that's how we lose. Salespeople get frustrated with, like, what was going through your brain Yeah. When you heard this?
Matt: Yeah. Well, the other thing too with acquisitions I find a lot of times is people wanna go straight for the solution without actually listening to what the real problem is. Right? It's like, okay. Well, what there's there's a there's an undercurrent that's happening a lot of times below what a seller is saying, and they're not reading between the lines in a lot of cases.
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: And so, like, that's really what we're trying to uncover is, like, what's happening between the lines because that's where the best deals are made, at least from my experience.
Steve: Not just the best deals, but that's where the sales are made. Yeah. Right. The sales are made from listening, not from talking.
Matt: Yeah. 100%.
Steve: Yeah. Oh, so that's huge. Before we, proceed, guys, big thanks to our sponsor, Beck CFO. Most business owners see taxes as their biggest expense. And for real estate entrepreneurs, it's usually 6 figures or more.
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Like, that was entirely unplanned. So let's talk about the mindset to go from hustler to business owner. Because I don't I think that, for a lot of us, we're attracted to the hustle and the grind. And this is, I've talked about this quite a bit when Paul Sparks and I were running a podcast together, Certainty Talks.
Matt: Mhmm.
Steve: We get into this trap. Like, I will I'll hustle you. I'll grind you. I mean, I talked about earlier. Right?
It was like Yeah. It's better. Like, I will outsell for you. You have this mindset, and that mindset's great to get off the ground. Mhmm.
But not so great later on. Yeah. Let's talk about that from what you've seen.
Matt: Yeah. I mean, my my coach, Tom Kroll, talks about it all the time. He's like, hustle is a season, not a lifestyle. Yeah. Right?
Eventually, as you start to get older, like, your your priorities change. You know? And it's like, you know, you start having a family, you start having, you know, kids and stuff like that. You know? Your body starts just getting older.
It's harder to do things, right, and to keep up with, you know, those younger kids who can outwork you, out suffer you. Right? Because they've just got the energy to do it. And, like responsibilities. What's that?
Inner responsibilities. Yeah. Exactly. So, eventually, like, you're gonna have to work smarter, not harder. Right?
And so I think with the and hustle culture is, I think, really damaging in a lot of ways. I'm a big proponent of, like, trying to find more balance in your life, and, you know, it's not all about money all the time. Some people might disagree with me on that, but, hey. You know, I'm at a point in my life where I can say that, you know, at least for me. You know, so the mindset shift also comes down to, okay.
I realize I can't be doing all this myself forever. Right? If I do, I will give I'm I'm burning the candle at both ends. I'm gonna burn out. So I have to figure out how I can bring other people into my organization that are gonna help me get to that next level.
And so, really, it's about leveling up your leadership game more than anything else. Right? And being a good leader is being a good people person, good listener, good at just handling conflict resolution, you know, and being forward thinking with how we're gonna be handling certain things, trying to, you know, plan ahead a little bit, thinking two or three steps ahead of of where of where the, you know, the puck is going to, I guess, if you want, like Wayne Cressy said. Yeah. So, you know, that's kind of it's hard to know when you get to that point.
I think everybody kinda has to come to their own breaking point a little bit to where it's like, okay. I'm I'm getting tired of of this. You know, I need I need a change. It's once you kinda hit that breaking point, that's, you know, okay. I need to level up my skills.
And that's where going into these masterminds and and looking and seeing what other people are doing, I think, is the first step to do.
Steve: Yeah. So tying this part up before we get to the the last questions, I want doubling your deal flow in a hundred days or less. Mhmm. Really, the big things comes down to is just whether with you or with someone else, it's you gotta figure your finances. Yeah.
Once you figure out your finances, now we gotta start delegating effectively.
Matt: You have to know where you're spending your time. Yeah. Big time.
Steve: You have to know where your time's going. Where you're spending your time. Yeah. Because if you don't know where you're spending your time, you can't reallocate.
Matt: I was gonna say you have to reallocate it on the highest, you know, revenue generating activities.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And once you get that going, now you're in a position. Higher Mhmm. A player closer.
Mhmm. And with an a player closer, it's really easy. You You're probably gonna more than double your deals at that point.
Matt: I would agree. So yeah. I just try to be kinda conservative because I've seen people do a lot more than that in the span of six to twelve months. I mean, I've got one client who, when I started working with them, they were doing four or five deals a month pretty consistently. Then he brought on two acquisition agents, and now they're closing sixteen, eighteen deals a month.
Mhmm. I mean, really consistently.
Steve: Yeah.
Matt: It's pretty crazy. But that's what but we did all the work ahead of time to make sure he had all the other pieces set up so that way when he dropped those a players into place because they they hit the ground running. I mean, they picked up the training super fast because they hit they had the right b PI behavioral profile. They had the cognitive profile. They had the experience in sales.
They're ready to go. Right? And there's people out there that are like that. Treat your business like a a business that's gonna pay you like one. Right?
So it's just being strategic with with what you're doing and thinking, like, taking time to actually stop, think, put a plan in place, and now go execute. Yeah.
Steve: I mean, it's obvious when you look at it backwards, when you look at it from Mhmm. From now to the past. It requires building the right foundation for the house Yeah. Before you can build the house. Yeah.
And a lot of times, we're trying to build a house when the foundation is set.
Matt: Yeah. Like, I did all the wrong things. Me too. Beginning. It's like.
Too. It's like, I wish people would just, like, learn from our mistakes and just, like, you know, go build the foundation right the first time. You know, don't be afraid to ask for help, I think, is the the biggest piece of advice I can give.
Steve: Yeah. I've built so many businesses. The only thing I'd actually did right from the beginning was actually doing the podcast. I actually I actually had the right people from episode one.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: That's the only thing I think I've done right.
Matt: Is that, Carlos Reyes, I think, or who was that?
Steve: I hired like, from episode one, I hired a a studio that came to a producer with TV and everything. From the from the first episode, I was like because at that point, I'd read who, not how. I read I've gone through your strategic coach Mhmm. With Dan Sullivan. Right?
Like, I learned these principles. I already paid for coaching with Darren Hardy and all of that stuff. I was like, oh, so I'm gonna do it. Like, I need the right people in place.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Okay. So then, so this Let's Grow COO, that's your company. And then if they want a closer, it's acquisitionreps.com. Yep. Alright.
Perfect.
Matt: They just gotta go to disruptors.acquisitionreps.com. Fill out the application there just to and then, you know, once if we think you're a good fit, then we'll book a call and get on and see if we can help you out.
Steve: Perfect. So then, moving on, we've talked a lot about operations and everything else.
Speaker: Mhmm.
Steve: But, you know, for yourself personally, what do you want to be remembered for?
Matt: It's a really good question. I've struggled with that a lot for the longest time, and my wife used to make fun of me all the time. It's like she's like, you still want that copter boat? And, like, I always wanted a helicopter boat and a yacht and all that kind of stuff. Nowadays, it's just I wanna be remembered as somebody who was willing to give more than I took, and that I made the world a better place than the way I left it, ultimately.
And that starts with my family and my kids more than anything else. I mean, I'm really just I'm they're at an age too right now where they're, like, in their most formative years, and so, like, I'm just trying to make sure I'm not raising jerks. Yeah. You know? And, you know, and I'm really proud of where they come so far to this point, because if I can, you know, raise my kids in the right way, then they can have positive impacts on their little friends and, you know, and the other people in their lives and grow up to be good adults.
And, like, that's what makes the world go round. So that's my legacy I hope I leave.
Steve: Gotcha. What is your biggest struggle today?
Matt: Marketing. I am not a marketer. I hate marketing. So that's why I try to go on podcast like this and and, you know, try to put myself out there. I'm also a huge introvert, so it's like putting myself out there on social media.
So I'm looking for a marketing person right now if anybody is, looking for a job. So yeah. It's I
Steve: can connect you.
Matt: Oh, man. Please.
Steve: Yeah. I'm in a marketing, mastermind. So, like, the guy that sends all those emails that coordinates all that Yeah. I hired him from mastermind that
Matt: I've been.
Steve: And, it's interesting because, like, we've all been burned by by marketing agencies over and over Yeah. Over again. Right? And every time it happens the reason why that happens is because you're hiring a guy who is a little big in his bridges, a little bit further along Mhmm. To take your money, and then he's just gonna use, like, BAs.
Yeah. But this group that I'm in is is very fascinating. They're really good at what they do, but they don't have a high self image. So they're like I referred a couple of people out. Like, the rates that they charge, like, you guys can charge a lot more.
You can charge a lot more than that.
Matt: Usually, the best people are like that. Yeah. And they're really good. So Yeah.
Steve: If you
Matt: need that, I got Oh, man. I appreciate that.
Steve: That problem for you.
Matt: Thank you.
Steve: What is your, superpower?
Matt: My superpower is being able to look at things from a 30,000 foot view and really be able to take it down at the tactical in the trenches level and really pick it apart and figure out, okay, What's working? What's not? How do we fix it? How do we move forward in the right direction?
Steve: Yeah. So you already knew the answer to that one? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Which kinda goes along with strategists. Yeah. What is, the biggest, lesson or biggest failure or situation that came along where you learned the biggest lesson from?
Matt: I think it's gonna go back to my time in the corps of cadets whenever I thought I was hot shit, and, I was just not a humble person at all. Like, I was an asshole back in the day, man, like, when I was younger.
Steve: I don't I can't I can't picture that version. No. This is the version I know.
Matt: Yeah. I know. I know. But I was not I was not a nice person to be around. But I think getting a real big dose of humble pie
Steve: Mhmm.
Matt: Really helped me understand that I mean, it goes back to what we were saying before. It's like, everybody everybody puts their pants on the same way every morning. I don't care if you're a billionaire or a janitor. I'm gonna treat you the same regardless. I don't I don't get that.
I don't get starry eyed when I meet celebrities or anything like that. It's just like you're just a normal person. Prove to me who who you can be. You know? Are you a good person or a bad person?
We're gonna fight out pretty quick.
Steve: You know where I had my biggest humbling moment? So I went to like, I grew up here. Literally, my office is, like, a couple miles from high school. Really? Right.
So I grew up here, and, you know, I did pretty well
Matt: at high school.
Steve: Smart bunch of smart kids, actually. Bunch of smart kids. Like, when they go like, if you look back at my class, it's kinda crazy, like, all the things they went off to go do Yeah. In my high school class. Right?
I'm gonna go to ASU. Yeah. And easily, like, one of the most intelligent people at ASU. Right? Because Mhmm.
It's a party school. So, like, I did well there, and then, I I got graduate school. Like, I did good enough ASU to get a full ride. They actually paid me to go to graduate school. Oh, wow.
Alright. So I went to UC San Diego, and not only did I get a full ride, but they actually paid me to go there. Yeah. And I go there. And I didn't know this at the time, but, like, to go into an American graduate school, you gotta be the best of the best for your country.
So I'm competing against as far as people from India Oh, wow. Taiwan, Korea, China, Sweden. There's Nigeria. And I know I'm missing a couple other countries. Yeah.
Man, to go, like,
Matt: hot stuff
Steve: at Arizona State University, which I know it doesn't mean a lot. But
Matt: Yeah. But when you travel the world, like, we you know, I'm sure you've been overseas. Like, you see, like, it's a totally different experience, and, like, people really try super hard over there, you know, to get to this level.
Steve: To get to The US Yeah. You've got to basically sacrifice everything. So yeah. Like, I went to Africa. I was like, holy crap.
Like, I thought I was smart, but I have no I'm not I'm probably, like, bottom 20%, in graduate school. Fortunately, I made it through and did well. But, man, like, I didn't have to work hard at ASU. Mhmm. I went crazy at East San Diego.
Yeah. What book have you gifted more than any other?
Matt: Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell. I think it's by far, like, the most impactful thing. And I heard about it first from, Dan Schwartz. Huge shout out to Dan. He he's no longer running the eighty twenty mastermind, but, he was the founder of that and investor Fuze as well.
But that book, I mean, right there alone changed my my entire mindset on how to run a business, and how to value my time. Because I think that's the other thing too is, like, money's one thing, but it it only buys you it doesn't buy you happiness, but it buys you a whole bunch of other cool things. But if you don't have the time to spend it, what's the point? You know? So that's that's the book I've I've given out
Steve: a lot. So he was supposed to be on this podcast. Oh, really? Yeah. He came out here, but there was a scheduling kinda snout through.
Because, like, you know, I don't run a thirty minute podcast. No. Right?
Matt: And so they
Steve: came out. I was like, yeah. Like, we're here for the podcast. Like, well, we gotta leave in thirty minutes. Like, that was not gonna happen.
Matt: Yeah. That that ain't happening. Right? Like,
Steve: with your story, it's probably a two hour plus podcast.
Matt: Oh, easily. Probably four.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, look. He's got a crazy story. Yeah.
So I was like, I can't in good faith, do this because, like, I'm gonna ask you one question, and then we're gonna have, like, seven follow-up questions. Mhmm. And then we're done with the episode.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: So, yeah, we rescheduled. I don't know when we're gonna have it, but, yeah, that was Man,
Matt: I hope you can get him on. That'd be fantastic. Yeah. He's been a huge, huge life changer for me.
Steve: Well, right now we're going through his book, Software as a Science.
Matt: I haven't read that one yet.
Steve: And, yeah. So we finished that book. And my conclusion after finishing that book is that I have fallen significantly short of the bar.
Matt: Oh, man. So I took that book, and
Steve: I sent it to my leadership team. I was like, we need to hire a person, and this book is their job description. Wow. Really? Yeah.
So that's where we're at. So, like, we're gonna
Matt: And now you're making me think I'm, like, way behind it.
Steve: Yeah. So we're gonna hire an employee. We're going to make that book be the job description, and then we're gonna put them through soft, Dan's SaaS Academy. Like, you we gotta level where we're at because, like, our, I thought we were good stuff. And, like, I think it was 13 or 11 chapters in that book.
And then 11 chapters is 11 different high level action. I don't know. There's 11 quarterly rocks in there Mhmm. For us to execute.
Matt: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I listen to his podcast at least once or twice a week, and Yeah. I'm, like, blown away at all this, like, how fast they're implementing things with AI right now. I'm just like Yeah.
If you're not doing that kind of stuff that they're talking about on in his books and things like that, you're gonna get left behind. And it's it's crazy.
Steve: Well, you know we bought DGX Spark.
Matt: I did. Yeah. I'm excited about that.
Steve: So our goal is to be able to buy a house by the middle of next year.
Matt: So do you really think okay. Let me ask you this. Do you think that AI is gonna replace salespeople?
Steve: 100%. When? Middle of next year.
Matt: Middle of next year.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think the So when
Matt: I guess acquisitionreps.com is gonna be out of a job then at that point Well, not quite. Okay.
Steve: So I think face to face, you're safe. Okay. Yeah. Right? Belly to belly, face to face, I think you're safe.
Matt: It's interesting. I'm finding a lot more teams are going back to the in person model. It's like things swung so far. Like, the pendulum was, like, all virtual especially when we had COVID. And then it's like everybody wanted to go, you know, kinda like
Steve: Listen. I've always been a very big advocate Yeah. For face to face. Yeah. Right?
Matt: Me too.
Steve: But, you know, if you wanna do virtual, that's fine.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: I think my clients are gonna
Matt: Wipe the phone. Clean up in twenty point
Steve: six. Yeah. Seriously.
Matt: And I and
Steve: I and I don't even make any money from it. Yeah. I just need to prove that it works.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: Like, for me, right, because that's the bill I know. Yeah. Right.
Matt: Man, if there's a way you could find a find a way just to get even, like, 1% of every deal that was done with your AI, man, that'd be
Steve: I'm going solid. I'm going I just want a nickel for every minute someone uses my service. Okay. Alright. Maybe I Yeah.
Because, like, if you look right now, right, like, ChatGPT gets a nickel for every minute someone uses voice. Yep. I just wanna be that nickel. Yeah. With that nickel.
Matt: Keep it up. It's gonna be a billion dollar company in
Steve: no time.
Matt: I can tell.
Steve: So That's the vision. Yeah. So It's huge. Guys, if you got value out of this out of this episode, please make sure you subscribe. Comment below.
I read each and every single one of these comments, and, you know, we're, we want to create more millionaires. And so the best way for us to reach more people is if you can help me engage so we can reach more people. What's some last thoughts I'm gonna leave all the listeners with?
Matt: Last thoughts. Adapt. Be adaptable. Don't be afraid to ask for help. You know?
I think those are the biggest ones. There's a lot of people going through a lot of really hard times right now. Yeah. Don't let your ego get in the way of, you know, just and don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Right?
I mean, just be vulnerable. I think you'll find a lot of doors will start to open for you when you do that. So a lot of people are willing to help.
Steve: Let me double down on that. I appreciate you saying that because not a lot of people say that. You guys are watching. Like, if you guys are going through hard times, like, be vulnerable. If you're in a mastermind, share that in a mastermind.
I've seen it countless times. Yeah. I'm dealing with this, and, like, everyone comes to your help. Mhmm. If you're in a mastermind, and if you're in a tribe, if you're in a community, maybe not your friends and family.
Maybe not that. No. Because they don't they don't have much sympathy to go through as an entrepreneur. But your your your friends are alongside with you on this journey. And be open because the, the connections you make like, I've seen it I I'm not gonna name any names, but I've seen countless times over and over again.
Just in a Facebook group. Hey, guys. Here's what I'm dealing with. I don't know what to do next. Yeah.
And you get this outpouring of support. Yeah. Right? Like Yeah. Everyone like, it's an American tradition.
We love the underdog. We wanna help the underdog. Mhmm. That guy that's hot stuff, that was you.
Matt: Yeah. That was me.
Steve: Everyone wants to throw rocks at that guy. Yeah. They wanna throw rocks at the guy that's doing really well.
Matt: Yeah.
Steve: But the guy that's like, hey. I'm hurting right now. Yeah. People wanna help you.
Matt: Oh, 100%.
Steve: I appreciate you sending that message because that message does not go out
Speaker: Yeah.
Steve: Nearly enough. Yeah. Yeah. So perfect. So thank you so much for coming.
I appreciate it.
Matt: Thanks for having me, man.
Steve: I really appreciate it. For watching.
Matt: See you guys next time. Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
