Steve Trang interviews Michael Franke about his journey from school teacher to foreclosure investing expert and tech entrepreneur. Franke shares how he built a community and AI-powered data platform that automates foreclosure lead generation, helping members find thousands of new foreclosure opportunities daily while eliminating manual data collection work.
Focus deeply on one niche rather than trying to master multiple real estate strategies - become an expert in your specific market segment
Use AI to automate data collection from 500+ sources nationwide, including obscure newspapers and small attorneys that competitors miss
Leverage comprehensive skip tracing that includes not just homeowners but all relatives' contact information, as you're often 1-2 steps away from the decision maker
1:55:06Josh Stech, founder of LendingHome and Sundae, shares how he built a billion-dollar real estate lending company in just five years, scaling to 14% market share. He discusses the venture capital playbook, hiring at scale, maintaining culture with 500+ employees, and his transition to solving the property sourcing problem for investors through Sundae's marketplace model.
1:47:49Tommy Mello, founder of A1 Garage Door Service, shares his journey from massive debt to building a billion-dollar company. He discusses critical business lessons including the importance of systems, hiring for attitude over experience, and how he scaled from a local garage door business to a nationwide operation that sold for $570 million.
Get a free AI-powered review of your sales calls. See exactly where you're losing deals and how to fix it.
Get notified when new episodes drop, plus a free AI call review.
Maintain lean operations with low overhead - one foreclosure deal per month can be life-changing money without the stress of large teams
Take immediate action after learning rather than endlessly consuming content - create knowledge gaps through doing, then seek specific solutions
”“One of my favorite success stories, a guy named Landon Hiles. He messages me. I watched, like, three of your YouTube videos. I have $300 in my bank account. I'm about to go talk to the seller right now. I am freaking out. I have no idea what I'm doing.”
”“That's the difference between the people that are are winning and the people that are sitting on the sidelines. Here's the information. Go implement. Pause a problem. Come back. Get information. Simple.”
”“You need to stop being a fan in the stands. Put your jersey on, get on on the court, go dribble the ball around. Doesn't matter if you shoot an air ball. You got teammates that that can help you out.”
”“Instead of miles wide, inches deep on the content, I want it to be few feet wide, thousands of feet deep where we actually can make an impact in our market because we know our product.”
13171 words
Michael Franke: One of my favorite success stories, a guy named Landon Hiles. He messages me. I watched, like, three of your YouTube videos. I have $300 in my bank account. I'm about to go talk to the seller right now.
I am freaking out. I have no idea what I'm doing. So I kinda give him some some pointers. He goes into the appointment. He locks it up.
He calls me. He's like, I'm pretty sure this house is worth about $4.50. I don't really know. Is it good if I locked it up for 90 k? And I'm like, well, depending on the condition, I guess, but that sounds like a smoking deal.
So he sends me some pictures, and I'm like, that's a really good deal. So he ends up assigning it, makes a $180,000 on his first deal. But to his credit, he watched some videos. He didn't just sit there and watch content forever. He just went out and did.
Then he created a problem for himself in terms of a knowledge gap. Came to me, asked, went and locked it up, made a 180 k. But that's the difference between the people that are are winning and the people that are sitting on the sidelines.
Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of disruptors. Today, we have Michael Franke with Niche, and Michael Flynn from Kansas City, Missouri to talk about how to find thousands of new foreclosures every single day. Now, guys, I wanna mention you create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire.
In the next five to seven years, if you'll take consistent action, you'll you will become one. And, guys, if you get value out of today's show, please hit that subscribe button. Please hit that share button. That way we that way we can create more millionaires. You ready?
I'm ready. Alright. So last time you were here, we're talking about your journey to go from school teacher to buying foreclosures, right, to millionaire, to maybe looking at some other possibilities, things you might want to take action on, and that was nine months ago. So what's happened in the last nine months?
Michael: And a lot has changed. I went from being an operator that was focused on doing the foreclosure thing every day, which I still do.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: But that was the primary focus. I was in the living room. Mhmm. I was talking to sellers, solving their problems, getting contracts, stopping foreclosure sales. And something in my heart for the last few years, and we talked about that a little bit last time, I just felt the desire to go nationwide with this.
Mhmm. Because I was in Kansas City, got my head down. I'm I'm in the trenches. We're doing all the work, and it's like,
Steve: yeah.
Michael: I'm impacting, you know, 10 or 15 families a month. Right. Kansas City. Kansas City is small. Most people call it Kansas.
It's that small. Really? Yeah. But, I wanted to take this nationwide. I had started the niche community, but I hadn't seen the impact Mhmm.
Yet. And all of a sudden, I realized, that we're there's thousands and thousands of foreclosures out there a month. Mhmm. And through free Facebook communities and through presentations at Collective Genius that we're in together Mhmm. People started taking action on that, and they're like, Michael, we were able to help this family.
This is huge. Not only financially for us, but we were able to help this family. So it actually was me going from an operator to me starting a movement Mhmm. The niche movement of really helping these people, on niche list nationwide.
Steve: Gotcha. So, the community was kind of, like, coalescing, kind of gelling together, but it wasn't really, like, a thing yet. Is that is that correct?
Michael: Yeah. It wasn't a thing yet. It was something that I'd been working on
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: But it took time. We we launched probably four months ago. Yeah. But it hadn't launched last time we talked.
Steve: Okay. And so tell me more about this community, Innovative Self.
Michael: So I've been just like you in a lot of different communities. Mhmm. And a lot of them are focused on a very broad set of skills Mhmm. Which is great. Real estate, you can make money in a lot of different ways.
Also bad. You can make money in a lot of different ways. Before we we started this, we were talking about FOMO, different things, and it's like no one's immune to that. Yeah. But I wanted a community that was super focused on one skill set
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: To where when you looked at your product, it's like, I know it like the back of my hand. I'm very good at it. So instead of miles wide, inches deep on the content, I want it to be few feet wide, thousands of feet deep where we actually can make an impact in our market because we know our product.
Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So talk to me about, the the community right now. What does it look like today?
Michael: So the community now is a bunch of people that are focused on preforeclosures now. Eventually, we'll have other niche lists. Mhmm. But we have three to four weekly trainings to where we're focusing on sales, like you talk about. Mhmm.
We're focusing on going to the right people. We're focusing on getting there at the right time. We're focusing on the technology aspect of getting them in the right place at the right time so that they can get these deals. My main focus is getting them results, which sounds corny, coming from a community. Mhmm.
But we've both been in a part of a lot of different communities. Some of them are are awesome. Right. The value is tremendous. Others, not so great.
Yeah. And I want my community, our community to be focused on on getting the results to where people are like, this is this is great.
Steve: Yeah. I think that's key. Right? Because, there's a term. I learned this from a friend on what a lot of, foundations and charities go wrong.
They call that mission creep.
Michael: Mhmm.
Steve: Right? Like, they start off like, hey. Here's an important cause. Right? And, like, as they get a little bit bigger and they get a little more money, it's like, okay.
Well, we wanna take care of this cause and that cause. And the next thing you know, the company that they that started and a company that is is completely unrecognizable because they had such massive mission creep and lack of focus.
Michael: Right?
Steve: Right? And so, like, I I you say it's corny that you guys are focused on results, but we've seen plenty of communities where it's just a community. Right? Where it's like, hey. Like, let's all hang out.
Let's network. Right? Versus like, hey. I wanna work on foreclosures. Help me buy foreclosures.
Yeah. Right? So being super intentional, and it's it's guilty, all of us. I mean, we, you know, know, we even talked about you're saying, like, the FOMO thing we're touching touching on earlier. You're asking me, like, you know, do I miss buying houses?
I was like, only when I go to Collective Genius. Only when I'm hanging out with my friends there that are having all the success buying houses. Like, oh god. Like, I miss the high, right, of locking up a really good deal, selling that really good deal, watching that wire come in. But we have to remember to focus.
100%. So, how big is is the community today?
Michael: Hundreds of members now. So it's really exciting. It it's been super interesting watching this grow over the last couple of years, wondering, hey. Is this an isolated skill for me? Is it really gonna translate to now getting dozens of messages a day?
Hey. Locked another one up. Stopped another foreclosure sale. Oh, I got a life changing amount of money. So that's been super rewarding.
It's it's kind of akin to when I would help personally a seller stop a sale, and Mhmm. They give you the hug. They're they're thrilled. It's like, now I get that aspect, and I get the aspect of people are doing what I'm doing in Kansas City
Steve: Right.
Michael: And most cities in America. Very rewarding.
Steve: So I remember, when you heard last, we were looking at one of the ways you were growing your community was a lot of social media content. Mhmm.
Michael: And, you
Steve: know, you had a camera guy following you to houses, and you're just straight cold door knocking, talking to homeowners, going into the living room, and the person behind the camera is showing a, it's not a bird's eye view, but it is behind the scenes look at what it actually takes to buy someone's home that's in that's facing foreclosure. Are you still doing as much of that content now with you having other things to focus on?
Michael: You know, I I wish I was out there door knocking and stuff as much because I I still get a thrill out of it. Mhmm. It's fun to me. But what I found with content, you've probably seen the same, is the actual day to day of what it takes to be a real estate investor. It's like, oh, we're we're cold calling.
Oh, we're working with our acquisition people and critiquing them. We're doing some role playing. Some of that actual tactical stuff, like, down in the weeds, the more detailed I am, it seems the more people resonate with it. Mhmm. Amazing.
If it's valuable, it's valuable
Steve: to people. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I haven't had that same exact experience. My experience has been the more real it is Mhmm. The fewer people will watch.
Michael: Interesting.
Steve: And it's inter it is interesting. Right? Because, like, you would think the part that actually makes you the money will be the part that's most interesting. But I have plenty of videos where that's happening where I guess the fewest engagement. And my theory, my hypothesis, is that the reason why it doesn't do as well is because it's not as relatable.
Michael: Mhmm.
Steve: Right? Me getting hung up on and being cursed out by a homeowner is relatable. Yeah. More people have gone through that. Getting a door slammed on you, deal dying in escrow, that, I think, is more relatable and is more like, you can perceive it whether you're doing a deal or not.
You can understand it happening. But the actual, like, training your salespeople, you know, dealing with these crazy scenarios, it's interesting to some people, but I think a lot of our audience has no context Right. What it actually means. And so in my own experience, the stuff that I think, like, this should be gold, this should be great, stuff that I would pay for. Right?
Like, a younger version of myself would have paid for this kinda access. Doesn't seem to resonate as much because it doesn't hit the masses. Like, you look at the, you look at the the audience. Right? Like, majority of our audience, the reality is has not done a deal.
Yeah. Right? And then if you're doing, like, 30 deals a month I mean, I still have people that, you know, they're really successful watching the show. And every time I they they tell me that, I was like, why? Right?
But the the amount of people that can understand or they're successful and will watch you document. It's just not as many because, like, they're in the weeds. They're doing the deal. So I think for me and my own personal experience, again, it's just I think there's
Michael: Well, it's the type of content or or audience you're going after. Obviously, the the door knocking, the cold calling, the cussing out, that type of stuff will get more views. Yes. Certainly. Is the quality of the lead that comes from that content as good?
Perhaps not. No. So we're probably talking about two different things. You're a 100% right. If I go talk to a seller that's door knocking me and they run me off the property or something, that's gonna be a lot broader of an audience.
Mhmm. But if it's like like today, I I released a video. It's like, oh, here's the five option framework that we talk through with sellers, our sales process.
Steve: Yeah. Sure.
Michael: There's gonna be less people that are interested in that. But the actual avatar will love it.
Steve: Well, the guy that will buy something from you will appreciate it more. Right. And, you know, it's interesting as we're talking about this because, you know, we're talking about content here, and there's, like, a slight diversion here. So, we have on one end of the spectrum, Corey Thompson. I don't know if you're familiar with him.
Rough neck to real estate. Like, love that guy. He's, like, the ultimate, like, guru hunter. Right? He gets millions of views on his YouTube channel because there's people that he's not sure have been murdered inside the house.
Right? Interesting content. Yep. And then we had I saw this yesterday on Instagram. Ryan Pineda made a video about, like, hey.
You should not be documenting your journey right now. And he was getting called out by people like, well, it's ironic that the guy that's creating content is telling other people not to create content right now. And what his point was that because there are so many people doing it right now, how do you break through the noise? So he already has an audience. So when he creates content, there's someone to consume it.
But, man, when I started doing creating content in '18, to grow Instagram Yeah. Got a lot of tremendous growth in the beginning. But if I were to try to grow an Instagram following today, I would say it's kind of intimidating. It's brutal. Right?
Today versus six years ago, I don't know. So, anyway, just a side tangent there. Just for everyone listening, it's a thing about content. I'm not trying to discourage anybody. Just be aware that today, everyone with an iPhone is a creator because that's what the standard is today.
Michael: Maybe some maybe now that TikTok's on the rocks, maybe there'll be a new thing. It'll be easier to get followers again. I don't know.
Steve: I think TikTok I mean, TikTok got unbanned. It it was it even survived that band did not survive twenty four hours.
Michael: Nope. I was going through withdrawals, though, admittedly.
Steve: So alright. So going back to my question. So you're not creating as much content. So then right now, how are you building your community? Hey, disruptors.
I just wanna share that myself as well as about half of the people on the show for disruptors are members of the Collective Genius real estate mastermind also known as CG. Now I've been a member of the Collective Genius for well over four years now along with about 700 other top tier real estate investors that flipped a combined over 50,000 homes per year. And I've personally made a ton of money and developed some deep personal lifelong friendships there. If you wanna look behind the scenes of what it's like to be an esteemed member of this organization and how it's helped me scale, please check out cgmastermind.com.
Michael: So right now, we have I'm putting out about a a YouTube video a week out. Yeah. And I also have a a somewhat small but very loyal, Facebook group that I engage with a lot there. But people have just been getting so many results, and they post about it on all these different groups. And it's like, wow.
It's not me just telling people,
Steve: yeah,
Michael: you're going to get results. Here's my metrics. Here's this. There's just tons of people that are going out there. They may not even be in the community.
It's like, oh, they watched a YouTube video. Like, one of my favorite students, one of my favorite success stories. Guy named Landon Hiles, Dayton, Ohio. He messages me. He's like, Michael, I watched, like, three of your YouTube videos.
I have $300 in my bank account. I'm about to go talk to this seller right now. I am freaking out. I have no idea what I'm doing. So I kinda give him some some pointers.
He goes into the appointment. He locks it up. He calls me. He's like, I'm pretty sure this house is worth about $4.50. I don't really know, but I'm guessing.
Is it good if I locked it up for 90 k? And I'm like, well, depending on the condition, I guess, but that sounds like a smoking deal.
Steve: Off back of the napkin math sounds pretty good.
Michael: Back of the napkin math, it sounds great. So he sends me some pictures, and I'm like, dude, that's a really good deal. Yeah. So he ends up assigning it, makes a $180,000 on his first deal. Outsized return.
Not normal.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: But he to his credit, he watched some videos. He didn't just sit there and watch content forever. He just went out and did. Mhmm. Then he created a problem for himself in terms of a knowledge gap.
Mhmm. Came to me, asked, went and locked it up, made a 180 k. He then signed up for the community. Mhmm. Since then, he's probably done six or eight more Yeah.
Really big deals. And it's like, that's the difference between the people that are are winning and the people that are sitting on the sidelines. Yeah. Here's the information. Go implement.
Pause a problem. Come back. Get information. Simple.
Steve: Right. Simple. Yes. People doing it? Not so much.
Right. So you've got some case studies, some success stories. So I guess, out of curiosity, like, why do you think some people don't?
Michael: Why some people don't have success?
Steve: I mean, they're watching the same videos.
Michael: It's interesting. You get people on your DMs that are wildly successful. Mhmm. You get people on your DMs that are on the other side. Yeah.
Then you try to get on the phone with them or on Zoom with them. It's like, let's diagnose the issue. What's going on? It's like, oh, well, I'm looking at the data I have. I'm I'm analyzing, you know, the conversations that you're having on YouTube, etcetera.
It's like, great. All that's fine. How many marketing activities have you done today? How many marketing activities have you done at all? Well, I'm gonna get out there and do my first door.
I'm gonna make my first call. And then you diagnose it. It's like, well, they're doing a bunch of researching. They're doing a bunch of content watching. They're doing a bunch of watching others play the game.
And one of the common, metaphors I like to use, you need to stop being a fan in the stands. Mhmm. Put your jersey on, get on on the court, go dribble the ball around. Mhmm. Doesn't matter if you shoot an air ball.
You got teammates that that can help you out. Right?
Steve: Yeah. I can appreciate the analogy about the air ball. That happened this morning.
Michael: Surely not.
Steve: Playing basketball. Oh, no. It did. It was it was noted, amongst everybody. Okay.
So you're building the community. You're having success. And then what have you done in addition to that?
Michael: Man, what have we not tried to do? It's a or Mosey talks about the woman with the red dress.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: That is a a common problem for me. So one of the cool things about
Steve: Before you go down that Yeah. For everyone that doesn't know what the woman in the right dress is, because I think it's an important story.
Michael: Another name for shiny object syndrome.
Steve: Yeah.
Michael: Right? Bill Matrix Mhmm. Reference. But the cool thing with this business is I I had done so many transactions north of 700 of these foreclosure deals that I could anticipate the problems that community members were gonna experience.
Steve: Sure.
Michael: Oh, how do I know where to go to talk to these people? How do I talk to them? How do I keep track of all this information? All these different products I could see in front of my eyes. Mhmm.
So it's like, oh, well, I need to take it upon myself to build them. Right? And we've done it, and it's cool. But at the same time, it's like, oh, I went from having an acquisition company. That was my entire focus for a long time.
Mhmm. Then it was, oh, I'm gonna add a community.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Let's split my pie in half. Mhmm. Then you add in a couple of different technology products in there, and it's like, oh goodness. I'm trying to do all these things. And we talked about this last time,
Steve: you
Michael: know, not trying to do too much, but Mhmm. Here I am doing that, trying to manage my teams, be a good leader, still do homes, which you aren't doing now Right. But do the whole education side. Mhmm. But it's been a it's been a fun ride, and I'm right in the middle of it.
Steve: Yeah. So what was your background? The the the, qualification for you to start a tech company again?
Michael: The qualification was none. I I am not a tech guy.
Steve: Yeah. So where did this where where where did this, seed get planted?
Michael: The seed got planted in my head after the first foreclosure that I ever did. Yeah. It was interesting because I was like my student I talked about earlier. Mhmm. Had no money.
It was rough. I had left teaching. We talked about that last time.
Steve: Alright.
Michael: Deals were not plentiful.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: And I I went door knocked that first house
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Preforeclosure. Made $50,000 on the assignment. Went really, really well, and I'm like, hold on. I went from nothing to a lot of something Mhmm. In a very short amount of time.
There has to be people that would want to learn about this. Obviously, I was not in a place as a leader or skills wise to ever lead someone else at the time, but Yeah. The thought was born in my head. Mhmm. So I put my head down for several years, and I started documenting.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: I wasn't making content. Like, we make YouTube content now. I was just like, here's what I'm doing today on my on my Instagram stories. And then years went by, and I started getting kind of known as the niche list guy, the pre foreclosure guy. Mhmm.
I had started voicing to people that I wanted to build some products around it. I had gotten a message from Chandler saying I don't know if you Chandler. Know him? Mhmm. And he's like, there's this guy in my mastermind.
His name is Rashad. Mhmm. You should talk to him. He comes from the government building out all kinds of crazy things for them. He wants to get into real estate and build something of his own around niche lists.
So I got on a call with Rashad. We had a lot of synergy. He had a team behind him. Without them, I I am not a tech guy. I'm still not a tech guy.
I'm just a visionary that says this is what I want. Right. And then then they build it.
Steve: Yeah. Here's what I want. I just wanna push a couple of buttons, get the data I need, and so I can call people. Right. Okay.
So how many people were in that like, when you started the tech company? I mean, it was you, Rashad. I mean, who who else?
Michael: There were probably four key people at the beginning. I think we have a team of, give or take, 15 now.
Steve: So then almost immediately bigger than your real estate team.
Michael: Yes.
Steve: You got overhead. Mhmm. How are you paying for this without clients?
Michael: So, fortunately, we had done well with with the foreclosures for years, so I I self funded it. Mhmm. It it wasn't easy, but that that's any startup. You're gonna have challenges. You're gonna have things to overcome.
So I self funded. Fortunately, then we were able to launch. I had built up a lot of trust with my followers and social media presence that I have that people came in pretty quickly. Within a couple of months, we were self sustaining, and now we're good.
Steve: But to get from launch of here's what I wanna make to a product that you feel comfortable charging money for, there's gotta be a time gap. It wasn't about a year. A year. Year. You funded Funded.
For a year before you collected a dollar with multiple heads in that organization. Yeah. Gotcha. Any kind of stress?
Michael: Plenty.
Steve: Any worries that this is gonna be all for not?
Michael: I mean, there's always that possibility.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: But at the same at the same time, I've built up the skills with the real estate side. No one can take that from me. Mhmm. And I we're still doing those deals. Not quite as many as we've done in the past.
Usually, we do, you know, a 150 a year. Lately, it's been more like 80 to 90. So cut in half, but we're still doing okay. Yeah. But at the same time, let's say everything crashes.
Mhmm. It doesn't go well. I still have a data product that I can use myself Right. Nationwide. So there are plenty of contingencies, but to say that there were no stress, that would be an absolute lie.
Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So you launched a community. You launched a tech company.
Michael: Anything else? There's all kinds of things in the background, but I don't wanna
Steve: But nothing right now?
Michael: Not nothing right now.
Steve: Okay. Cool. So we're only only three things going on. Okay. So let's talk about the value of having tech in your business.
So for, you know, anyone else is looking to use tech in them, like, why why do we need tech in our business?
Michael: As AI is coming Mhmm. And it's coming quick. I use it every day. Yeah. And my company, like, even if it's just my copywriting and things like that or ideation, it's like, holy moly.
I just did days worth of work and Yeah. A matter of minutes with some prompt engineering. Mhmm. But as tech gets better, we have to leverage our time doing money making opportunities more. Otherwise, we're gonna get our lunch taken from us.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: So like I said, I had done this business for a long time. I had seen what the problems were going to be, and I saw the things, the patterns that I did long time ago, the things that I wasted time on. I would sit and pour over data, sit in county records, like writing things down on notebook paper, trying to analyze things. And I realized, oh my goodness, 40% of my time was, like, spent on this admin stuff. Mhmm.
Then when I realized, oh, well, where's the money made? Well, talking to sellers, solving their problems, making money there. I was spending very little of my time there. It was all on the admin stuff. So immediately when I was building this community, it's like, I need to figure out how to, for the community members, eliminate a lot of that admin time.
So it's like, let's focus on the money making opportunities, not the $10 an hour stuff.
Steve: Yeah. And we'll get to this, but, you know, just something that I've been doing, you know, might be valuable for some people, is, I've been kinda, like, avoiding this AI deal. Right? Like, in my mind, I'll just wait for someone to create a great AI product, and I'll just pay them. Like, I'm not gonna be the leader.
I'm not gonna be the thought leader in this AI world, this AI trained. Just let someone else do it, and then I'll just, like, ride along. So for myself, we just hired an operations person. An operations person, the job description was written by chat GPT. Like, I've written a lot of job descriptions over here.
I feel pretty good, with my skills to write a good job description. But in this one, I just took a leap of faith, and I've put in there as, like, I'm looking to hire operations manager. Right? Like, write me that job description or an operations manager that has the characteristics I'm sorry. That would be attractive to a person that is a captain on a predictive index and has galvanizing characteristics from working genius.
And then it pushed out this thing. It's like, that looks pretty good. And I looked at it. It's like, I'm not even gonna edit anything. Right?
And I copied it, paste it on Facebook, paste it on LinkedIn, paste it on Discord and some other, groups I'm in. And just quality candidate after quality candidate after quality candidate. Holy cow. I could not believe like, I was talking to Ian in our organization. I was like, hey.
I have a problem. Like, what's the problem? It's like, I have three quality candidates, and none of them I feel like I can't miss any of the three. He's like, we've never had that problem before. I was like, I know we've never had that problem before.
Right? So there is that. And then after that, you know, I got my other coach, Amanda Dean, for Sharper. Some of you guys have seen her on the show. She's like, you know, I talked about the onboarding.
I was like, here are their expectations for our operations manager. And, like, I was like, you know, read these books. You know, make sure you know how to use these tools because we have eight tools that we use. And I was like, here's what I want. And she's like, well, how are you measuring it?
I don't know. Like, should you test them on it? I was like, I should test them. And so you go back to GxCPT. Give me 10 questions to test that this person has at least a beginner's knowledge of how to use Fathom because that's one of the tools we use for call reviews.
Gave me those 10 questions. Like, that's fantastic. Copy. Give it to the AI. I'll give it to, the VA.
They put this in go high level as part of our onboarding.
Michael: And if you're not if you're not using AI, you're wasting all kinds of time. Actually, you have a a small email list, send out little tidbits and things to them. Use chat g p t. It's like, here's my prompt. I'm kind of wanting to write an email about this.
Here's the value I wanna provide. Go. Yeah. Then you maybe alter it a little bit. I send it out.
I had a couple of friends. They're like, your copywriting has, like, gotten a lot better over the did you take a course or
Steve: some
Michael: no. It's just AI or I'll have community members. They're like, hey. I wanna come up with a drip sequence, a text sequence, email, whatever. Do you have something?
I'm like, well, let me just do a prompt engineer real quick. Here you go. How does this sound? They're like, that's unbelievable. That would have taken me days.
Like, there's all these different things that you can do on the fly that are so valuable. Yeah.
Steve: I mean, one of the prom one of the ones we use problems we use the most, not myself, but other people in organizations, like, I wanna say this, but sound professional. Mhmm. Because I can't help but come across as aggressive or snarky. Like, take this, but make it, like, not sound snarky.
Michael: Well, the the fun one of the the prompts that I love to use, you almost make it compete against itself. Mhmm. Like, okay. Do your first iteration. Well, now I want you to improve your writing.
I want you to write this five more times, then compare all of them. Tell me which one's your favorite. And then it's, like, pretty doggone good.
Steve: Yeah. So, yeah, this this AI thing is going to, you know, eliminate a lot of, work, maybe some jobs.
Michael: Mhmm.
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Michael: So we obviously have a data product that we give people automated automated foreclosure data updated daily. This is done without human beings. Mhmm. I knew to do something like this, it had to be a scalable deal. Obviously, there you could have a legion of VAs or different people that are out there scouring Mhmm.
This information. But I didn't see that as a profitable endeavor, and I definitely didn't wanna manage these people. Because for years, I'd done that on my own. For Kansas City, it's like Managing VAs. Three, four VAs that were pulling preforeclosure, probate, eviction, divorce.
It's like they're they're wonderful. So if they watch this, love you guys. But at the same time, you gotta manage them. It's not cheap to do it.
Steve: And I
Michael: was like, man, if you try to do this nationwide, it's not gonna work. Yeah. And for a long time, I'd had this vision of having this product where it's like, I could provide people in Phoenix their data updated daily. It's like, this isn't doable. Mhmm.
Then all of a sudden, AI advances and advances and advances. It's like, okay. Maybe this is a possibility.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: So I met Rashad. We started vetting this idea. It's like, is it even possible? One, he's like, we're gonna work on this for a couple of months. I may come back to you and say, the technology is not there.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: He worked on it a few months. He's like, this is doable. Yeah. Then we we started building our team out and slowly building it out, and it's still an iterative process. Right?
Steve: Yeah.
Michael: AI learns. We learn. But the whole backbone of what we're doing on the data side is using AI.
Steve: Yeah. And so what is AI doing right now as far as getting for collection data?
Michael: So we're able to go probably to upwards of 500 different sources around the country, gather that information. Then with the the the bots that we've built, you're able to take that information, clean the information, standardize the information, then skip trace the information, and then upload that into a portal for someone with no human involvement.
Steve: So, not to oversimplify this, you gave an amazing presentation at Collective Genius talking about how you were pulling pre foreclosure data. And, again, we're like we're saying earlier, like, there are people that have mentioned how much has helped their business. Devin Robinson was on the show. Right? When we were talking about installment, he's like, yeah.
Like, I used that presentation to make a lot of money. So the idea what you were talking about was, like, hey. I go to the county, the public data
Michael: Mhmm.
Steve: And I just, every morning or the night before, just look at it and take that information, extract it, scrape it however you wanna do it, skip trace it, call them, door knock them. Yep. More or less, that's what we were talking about. Right? Super basic.
Super basic. Right? Simple. Again, just because it's simple doesn't mean it's easy.
Michael: Simple but complex.
Steve: Yeah. Right? So because still, there are a lot of people that don't do that. Even though it's public information, like, legit, it's public record, and you're talking about it publicly on how to do it. Right?
Now what you've done is instead of go do this, AI can just automate the whole process.
Michael: Automate the whole process. And so for a long time, I'm like, okay. I'm not sure that I I trust the AI Mhmm. To do it right. Surely, the humans are are doing it better.
So I did some split tests. It's like, okay. Here here's the VA data. Right? Mhmm.
Pretty solid. They're doing this for me all day. Right? How how could it be wrong? Mhmm.
Then we looked at the AI data. And at first, AI data was far inferior. Right? But then we can learn. We can figure out things.
We can fix bugs. Over time, it gets better and better. And to where I'm like, what what point is it worth it to drop the VAs and and keep this? So I keep looking at the data, and I start realizing, oh, well, there's mistakes over on the AI side still, but it's starting to get information that I don't have Oh. On on the VA side and vice versa.
But it's like,
Steve: where
Michael: is it getting it from? Mhmm. So we found all these different sites around the country, different newspapers, different different tools that I had never seen, and I I'm pretty well versed in in in, preforeclosure data. And then all of a sudden, it's like, this is starting to get better.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Then we started beta testing with people in the community down in Florida. Right? There is a community member. I I released a turn. She's like, Michael, I'm not gonna lie.
This is not that great. It's not usable yet. Mhmm. This was probably six months ago. Yeah.
So, of course, my my egos hurt right away. Yeah. And I'm like, well, did we fail?
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Like, is this gonna work? But, fortunately, I have a great team behind me. We're relentless on improving it. So we went back to the drawing board for about three months at batting sources, kept refining our process, and I was like, hey, miss type a personality Mhmm. That's gonna go line by line.
Go back and do it again. She said, it's 98% accurate now. Plus, there's some that you have that I don't.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: So it's possible that it's beyond a 100%. Mhmm. So that's what the process that we've taken. In every state, it's been an iterative process, but it's been fun.
Steve: Explain to me how is getting data that we can't get manually. Is it Yeah. Is it manual errors, or are they finding other sources?
Michael: So for the longest time, I in that collective genius presentation Mhmm. I basically taught go to something like auction.com, the most basic foreclosure platform in the world. Mhmm. Go to your market, identify each property that's in your market, and there will be a foreclosure trustee. Mhmm.
Right? Then go to all their websites, all these different places. Eventually, you'll have ten, fifteen, 20 different sites that you can pull from.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: And I thought that that was comprehensive for a long time. But I found out, oh, well, there might be, you know, creative finance foreclosures that are buried in newspapers Mhmm. Or different really small attorneys that don't have information out there Mhmm. That people can't find. It's like all of a sudden, one, you're missing out on data, but if you're missing out on data
Steve: So is everyone else.
Michael: Everyone else is as well. So is that person getting lambasted? Not. Mhmm. So all of a sudden, you have deeper deals.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: And so that's been our focus, going to
Steve: all
Michael: those weird sites that maybe the the data is not even formatted well. Mhmm. And we figured out a way to format all that and get it into usable information.
Steve: That's awesome. And the other thing too, so, you did a demo for me, I wanna say December Mhmm. November. And there was something else to you say skip trace, but it's not just simply skip trace. There's a little bit more to it.
Michael: So, obviously, most people when they skip trace information, it's coming from a different angle. Right? Mhmm. You're you're having someone come into you. You're wanting to talk directly to that homeowner.
There might be two or three phone numbers, maybe an email or two, something like that. Well, with what we do with foreclosures, sure. I would love to go knock on your door, Steve.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: You answer the door. You roll out the red carpet.
Steve: Of course.
Michael: And we sign a contract. Mhmm. Right? You're fairly easy to get ahold of and talk to. Yeah.
But many times from my experience out of doing hundreds and hundreds of these, the seller isn't necessarily the person that you talk to first. Mhmm. You have aunts, uncles, sons, daughters, heirs of all kinds. Because these people, they've they've passed away. They're assisted living community.
Who knows what? Mhmm.
Steve: You
Michael: can't get ahold of them. Right? So with our skip tracing, of course, you're gonna get the homeowner information. That goes without saying. Yeah.
But you're also getting all of the relatives, their phone numbers, their emails, their addresses because you're always one or two steps away from a big foreclosure deal. It's like, oh, I I went and found a vacant house. It's in foreclosure. The average person will write this down on their notebook, and it's like, well, I'll look at it later down the line. Mhmm.
Well, then you find out through our skip tracing, well, that person passed away, why it's vacant. Mhmm. Well, what do you do now? Well, they'll look at their relatives. Maybe you call them.
Maybe you text them. No response. Yeah. Right? It's like, oh, well, their address is only a couple miles away.
I'm gonna drive over there, door knocking. It's like all these little pieces of information add up to something big where it's like you're that close to a $25,000 deal. Yeah. And you just didn't know it. Mhmm.
And that's what the information is there for, to bring awareness where it's like you're in the middle of a situation. Mhmm. You have all of the contact information you need. Just bam, bam, bam, go after it. Because as you know, time kills all deals.
Steve: Right.
Michael: So if you go find a fire deal, vacant house, and then you you don't do anything with it Mhmm.
Steve: You're in
Michael: a market like Phoenix. You're you're gonna get beat.
Steve: Yeah.
Michael: So if you find that situation, you need to have everything at your fingertips so you can go after that person now.
Steve: Right. So I'm looking at it. Here's the three phone numbers. None of them work. Here are their closest relatives.
Phone numbers don't work, but it's their phone numbers and their addresses. Mhmm.
Michael: And their emails.
Steve: And their emails. Yeah. So and that's all inclusive in this data.
Michael: All inclusive. Okay.
Steve: That part you mentioned a moment ago about the newspapers or other websites, right, that are less, what's it, people are less aware of. Yes. Do you highlight those as, like, good data, like, additional data, or, like, put asterisk, put them in color?
Michael: At this point, we haven't done anything like that. Mhmm. It's just included, just like anything else. But Like,
Steve: for me, I would wanna know, like, hey. This is the one that could be a banger of a deal.
Michael: So in a future release, again, Upstart, I'm the visionary. There's the tech guy that there's some realism from their side. Like, we can only accomplish so much. Yeah. I'm like, guys, we need to have some type of formula.
Mhmm. Like, we're we're factoring in, you know, rarity of the source. Mhmm. Did someone pass away? How much equity is there?
Is it vacant? Have you talked to them? Do you have the correct phone number? Where at the end of the day, it's like, oh, we have all this good information. This is a banger.
It's a 90 out of a 100 in terms of you've gotta go after this. Or it's like low equity. It's junk. You've talked to the person. They wanted to kill you.
It's just not gonna happen. It's a five. Mhmm. It's like all of a sudden, if you have all the information and a motivation score Mhmm. All of a sudden, you can leverage your time even more.
Steve: Yeah. You start triaging. It's like, alright. I'm only gonna call, like, this 100 Yeah. This week, and that's good enough.
Alright. So you can maximize and optimize. Okay. So that's sounds like it's on the radar, just not there yet.
Michael: Not there yet, but coming.
Steve: Yeah. Because, like, that's who I would wanna call. It's like, who are the ones that no one else is talking to? Okay. So, so then, again, talk to me about the challenges.
Now that you have all this data, one thing that you brought out to me was, like, now how do we house all this data? Mhmm. Right? Because I I tried to talk you out of something. You're like, I don't have a choice.
So what was what what is the next thing?
Michael: Can you rephrase the question? Sorry.
Steve: You have all this data Mhmm. For people to call. Yep. But you can't put them in anywhere else outside your system.
Michael: Yes. So from the beginning, I anticipated problems. Sure. I knew, oh, well, student comes in. Hey.
I can provide you all the coaching, all the sessions, all the courses, all the stuff, all the frameworks. Fine. Well, then you're gonna waste all your time on the data. You're not gonna do anything. We built the data.
Mhmm. Right? Well, then I was like, well, it's the technology age. Right? I don't wanna do everything manually from from the data.
So it's like, what's the next step? So I did not want to build a CRM at at all. So I went and talked to all the big players that that you would know. And they're like, we we don't have the amount of fields to house all the information.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Because we have all of the the relatives and all the stuff, and you might have six, seven, eight phone numbers for each person, five, six emails. It's like it doesn't make sense in the average business model because they're doing, you know, inbound traffic. And it's like someone says, oh, yeah. Here's my phone number. Here's my email.
You have it. You don't need any other fields. Mhmm. So we went out and and tried to find that it didn't exist.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: So we decided to build it on our own. Yeah. And this product will will come out soon, but the thought is, hey. Your data's automated Mhmm. Coming in.
Then that data automatically goes into your CRM, and then we can build out marketing features and drips and sequences from there.
Steve: So before, it was like, Michael, I don't know how to get started. Well, here is what you do. You go pull data, call them, you make money.
Michael: Mhmm.
Steve: But, Michael, I don't wanna pull data. I got you. Here's all the data in one place. Yeah. But, Michael, it's really hard Mhmm.
To call all these people. You have no idea how hard it is. Alright. They put it all in a different CRM so you can just bang all the calls on in a dialer inside the CRM. So they don't know have to know how to pull the data.
They don't need to pull the data. They don't even need to put it anywhere else. They just need to they just need to log in and hit the green button to call the person.
Michael: And that's been my goal from the beginning Mhmm. Is to create an ecosystem where it cuts actual years off of the learning curve immediately. Because this probably took me six years to figure out, pulling the data, figuring out how to get it into a CRM, doing all it's a lot. And I actually had a father that was a programmer. Mhmm.
Right? So he knew how to do this. If it was me, there's no chance that it was happening, and that's probably what's happening to the average person out there. Mhmm. They watch a YouTube video, whether whether it be foreclosures or whatever else out there.
It's like, oh, this is great. Mhmm. But then they realize the time that has to be invested to do that thing is painful. We talked about Ermosey earlier. He has his value equation.
Right? It's like you have the different inputs and and time delays and the effort and sacrifice required. And if you can basically say well, for example, his example always is, well, the difference between exercising and losing weight and eating well or going in and doing liposuction. Mhmm. Right?
Well, one is probably healthier for you and better long term, but the other, oh, I can fall asleep, and I can wake up thinner.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Right?
Steve: Right.
Michael: Same thing with what we're talking about. It's like, oh, well, you could manually go get the data. You could learn how to have these conversations. You could do all these things. There's a lot of effort, sacrifice, time delay.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: But if you're able to, oh, we're gonna automate data. We're gonna get it into a CRM. You're gonna be in a community of other people doing the same thing, and you're able to cut years down to weeks. Yeah. There's some value there.
Steve: There's a ton of value there. And it's kinda like I mean, at at which point then, like, there's this when I started wholesaling, really buying houses, not wholesaling. When I started buying houses, it was, if I could get a motivated homeowner's contact info, it was basically a done deal. Mhmm. Right?
Because, like, this is, like, in 2011. Yeah. It's a done deal. Like, there's not that many people I'm competing against. And then, I don't know, batch rolls out around 2018.
And and I know IDI had been around for a while, but, like, batch rolled out in 2018. And now, like, it's pretty easy to get the contact info. And then you got Audantic. It's been around forever. Eighty twenty REI.
It's, now the data's available, and we can skip trace it. But now it's just really who's willing to go get the data. Mhmm. Who's willing to who's willing to pay for the data, get it, pay for the skip trace, load in a CRM, and then have a sales team work it. 100%.
Now it's just who's willing to pay for a niche and then hit the dial button. I don't know what else there is after that. Hey. My name is Brian. I'm a real estate investor.
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Michael: Well, that's been my goal the whole time. Like, I obviously, there's a bunch of different sectors in real estate that I'm not an expert in, but and what I've focused on, I tried to think of what is the most valuable thing that I could give. And it was some sort of automated data system Mhmm.
Steve: Where
Michael: you get all the data that goes into a system. It sends messages out. And whether you're really skilled and you have a team that can go execute on those deals or you're just a new person, it's like, hey. There's a lot of activity going on. Things are coming in.
JV with someone else in the community and make something happen to where the time delay goes from, you know, six, nine, twelve months, whatever that kind of normal amount of time for someone to get a deal to hopefully a couple weeks or less.
Steve: Yeah. So, guys, we're talking, you know, how to find thousands of foreclosures every single day. New foreclosures every single day. If you guys are interested, go to getforeclosuredata.com. Getforeclosuredata.com.
There's one more thing you could do, actually. We're not there today.
Michael: Okay.
Steve: And if this works out, it'll eliminate need for a lot of people, potentially including myself, which is not good. So I think we're probably a couple years away from this. But you could have AI make the calls for them. Right? Once you get there, then it's AI's pulling the data, skip tracing the data, making the phone calls.
I don't know if they're locking up the contract then in there. Maybe you still have to go to the living room. Let me get to a point where they're just locking the contract. I'm I'm scared of where when we've
Michael: got looked into that. Yeah. You've probably played with it as well.
Steve: I haven't. It's just one of those things where it's like, I've got my head in the sand because I know when that day comes, I'm gonna have to get a new job.
Michael: So it's interesting. They have a bunch of different AI bots out there.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Probably a year or two ago, they started coming out with it. Air dot ai was one of
Steve: the first ones. Big one.
Michael: Right? The problem was the latency was huge.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: It didn't sound right. It was just like this this is cool, but it's almost like a gimmick. Mhmm. But processing speed has been getting faster and faster and faster
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Where latency goes from two or three seconds to like that. Mhmm. And I've I've seen even some, like, call setting type softwares to where it's like they're not necessarily trying to close the deal, but they'll be able to vet a client and see if they're they're good enough. And I, of course, being me, I'm trying to trip up the software. It's like, oh, that was pretty good.
I I am impressed. So, my team thinks it's probably eighteen months or twenty four months away. But at the same time, there's gonna be all kinds of of different government regulation on that. You've probably seen TCPA stuff, coming out later this month on the twenty seventh. Yep.
We're gonna have to have one to one, you know, permission to speak to people. So I imagine there's always gonna be a way around that, but it's just something to consider.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So the next step, not you necessarily, but the next step is we already made it this far. It's really just They're getting leads, getting appointments. Mhmm.
And then I guess point after that is I'm going from getting appointments to just getting contracts. Hell, I don't know if you have AI start raising private capital for you.
Michael: I probably can.
Steve: Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Michael: Maybe you can invest in Bitcoin for you, and you got the capital for you. I'm still regretting it. My, my technology guy, he has quite a bit of Bitcoin. Mhmm. Every day, he's like, yeah, you have none, and it's at a 109 k now.
Steve: Yeah. No. That's that's that's that's true. That reminds me there's another person I gotta have on this podcast. So yeah.
So we can have AI raising private capital for you. Right? It's pulling maybe that's the next thing that initial pulling.
Michael: Maybe so.
Steve: People with money. Right? And then skip tracing them and just putting them in the CRM.
Michael: The goal is to eventually have a whole ecosystem. Some of it's not realistic right now. But it's something that I'm in for the long haul. I I love it. It's a passion of mine.
Steve: But the way technology is growing. Right? Because, like, you have Moore's law. Right? Which is, like, every 18 months, the merchant's transit system on on doubles.
Right? But with what they're doing with, is it optical? I can't what it is. But the the the switching speed is based off of light, not even, like, transistors. And so, like, there what was it?
There's a computer now that I think is, like, orders of magnitude stronger than a government supercomputer.
Michael: Right. Yeah. It's seen I don't remember what the numbers were, but there were problems that this computer could solve in a matter of minutes that would have taken a supercomputer thousands of years
Steve: or something.
Michael: I could have it wildly wrong, but it was something like what I read.
Steve: So we got that thing. Now that thing is probably obscenely expensive. Right. But, you know, I don't know if you remember when plasma TVs came out. $17,000 for a TV.
Who's buying this?
Michael: Right.
Steve: Now you could buy it for $250 at Best Buy. Crazy. Right? And so, like, once that happens, who knows? Right?
And then you guys have heard me talk about this on the show. I think if, you know, last year, I was I was saying in a matter of five years, we're all dead anyway from that. So it doesn't even matter. So, let's see. Anything else we wanna touch on that we have not touched on yet?
Michael: Well, the biggest thing is I I looked at a interesting stat the other day. I actually made a YouTube video about it, about the amount of single family transactions that were done the last two years.
Steve: Yeah.
Michael: And if you were around 2020, 2021, when all the hedge funds were around Mhmm. Interest rates were low. There's a lot of money, lots of transactions.
Steve: Yes.
Michael: Right? A lot more people selling, a lot more newbies that could get deals, and maybe you didn't even have to buy it deep because then you could sell it
Steve: to a
Michael: hedge fund. Right? Well, the last couple years, things have come back down to earth some.
Steve: Transaction wise.
Michael: Transaction wise.
Steve: Yep.
Michael: Those that are good at the business are are doing really well. Mhmm. But imagine the the amount of transactions is the same actually as the recession Mhmm. Which I was fascinated with. It was probably the lowest amount in the last thirty years according to this this source.
Steve: Sounds about right.
Michael: So I start thinking and having conversations with guys. I'm collective genius. And it's like, hey. We're doing PPC. We're doing PPL.
We're doing TV. We're doing direct mail. All the normal things, which I love. I do them in my business. Right?
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: But you're used to kind of that eight to 10 ROX or ROI eight to 10 x ROI or more if you're good.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: And guys are like, including me, kinda like two to four x right now. Kinda scared. Mhmm. It's like, why why is that? Well, one, there's less people selling.
Yeah. They're they're trapped because they refi before. Mhmm. They don't have the capital for a down payment. They can't afford the interest rates now.
There's just less people selling. So then when there is an opportunity for from those sources we talked about, then it's a bloodbath. Right? You got Doug Hopkins. You got Brent Daniels.
Mhmm. You got whoever else in Phoenix at the same house. Then it comes down to skill. Right? And then you end up paying too much.
The ROI is not as good. Yep. So with that, most people out there, they don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars a month to invest into marketing. They've got to be highly select in what they do. Mhmm.
So with niche list, it's like, oh, maybe in your counties that you operate in, maybe there's only a couple 100 at any given time. Phoenix, couple thousand.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Right? It's like, oh, all of a sudden, I can be very, very focused on my marketing, have lower overhead, not as much, risk on these things, and have less competition to where will I always do traditional marketing? Heck, yeah. Mhmm. It it works.
But the returns aren't as as good as they were a few years ago for most. Mhmm. With the niche list, it's remained constant for me. 15 to twenty x on marketing spend.
Steve: Well, it makes a lot of sense because the cost required for closure foreclosure is just the data and the scriptures Yeah. And effort. Right? Because, like, again, PPC, TV. TV, more often than that, from my understanding, you're probably the only guy there.
Maybe there's other people. PPC, for sure there are other people there. Alright? SEO, there may or may not be other people there. Direct mail, again, there may or may not be other people there.
Niche data, it's really the thing I like about niche data is it's a tactical one. It's the one that, like, there are newer people doing it, then you just gotta outskill them.
Michael: Mhmm.
Steve: Because, like, preforeclosures historically have always been the best list, but also the most competitive because a lot of people start there. Yeah. But, yeah, a 100%, I, you know, I think you look at scaling was the buzzword for years and years and years. Haven't really heard it so much in the last two years. Right?
And the the last couple years have been more about leaning out, running a lean operation, running a very profitable organization, stacking cash so that when you want to scale later on or the v is it makes sense to scale later on. You can't, but mostly just stacking cash today. Yeah. Running lean, stacking cash, and I think this right here gives you that opportunity.
Michael: 100%. We actually were talking before this about leaning up.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: Right? And I had joined Collective Genius. I don't know if that was three, four years ago.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: And everyone was like, yeah. Scaling doesn't work. You're gonna end up wanting to be small. And at that time, I was ramping up, and I was like, you guys Yeah. What are you talking about?
It's like, you're old and wise. I'm gonna ignore you. Yeah. Right? So I got to the point where it's like, oh, you have 15 people on your team.
You have a 125, 150,000 in overhead. And it's like, yeah. When things are going really well, doing fifteen, twenty deals a month, great.
Steve: Right.
Michael: But then when the market changes and you realize, oh, maybe we weren't quite as good as we thought we were. We were just taking advantage of a good market. Exactly. And then you lean up. And, actually, going through the process of leaning up has brought so much.
There's so much less anxiety.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: I feel so much less pressure. Instead of having to do five, six, seven decent deals a month, now we have to do two.
Steve: Right. Yeah. It's a lot easier. So, guys, if you guys are interested, get foreclosuredata.com. We'll post that in the show notes and on the on the screen.
So any last words you like to leave all the listeners with?
Michael: As the most rewarding thing I've done in in real estate is serve these homeowners. I've got hundreds of stories of my own of taking people that were at their financial limit.
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: They're about to lose their home, and getting them to a point where it's like, wow. You actually had some equity. We put some money in your pocket. You're in a better situation. And there's a lot of emotional income
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: With that. And on top of that, launching this community and seeing hundreds of others do the same, it's without a doubt the most rewarding thing I've done Yeah. To be able to see that level of impact, and it's only the beginning. But if you want to get into real estate and you're kind of at the beginning, you really don't know what to do. This community is designed for you to start from level one
Steve: Mhmm.
Michael: And build a business that's exactly like you want. You don't have to be doing 15 or 20 deals a month. There's so many people that are thrilled to do one deal a quarter, make $25 and make a $100 a year and just live a simple existence. Mhmm. So if anyone from like that to people that just wanna scale up do We were talking about Doug Hopkins doing 80 deals a month or something like that.
There's there's something for you.
Steve: Yeah. And, and I think that's such a key point. Right? I think people are a lot clearer on it today than they were two years ago, but, like, you don't have to do a lot of deals. When you're by yourself, one deal a month is life changing money.
One a month is life changing money. It's really, a lot of times, the ego that pushes you to do more, pushes you to get to a 125, 150 k a month in overhead. And I'm I'm pointing at Michael here, but I'm just as guilty. Right? I think that we were comparing at our peak, we're probably neck and neck in monthly overhead, which was not wise, but we were able to justify at the time.
Michael: We were. Yeah. No. The fun the most fun I ever had was when we were lean, and it was me, maybe two or three other people on the team, probably doing six or eight deals a month at that point. And we were, like, 80% profitable.
It was crazy. But that was when I brought them had the most joy in it. Mhmm. I learned so much from scaling up leadership wise, I like to think. But be careful to end this time and and climate.
You don't you don't need to do all the extra. You don't need to compare. Comparison's a thief of joy.
Steve: Yeah. It's most certainly the most fun when you're small and figuring it out. It's almost like with your kids. Like, they wanna grow up faster. It's like, you really don't.
Yep. And it might be the same thing with scaling. Like, yeah, scaling looks great. But looking back, the best times was when we were just figuring things out, calling each other. Hey, Michael.
Here's where I'm stuck. How are you solving this problem? Those are the best memories. 100%. Yep.
Perfect. So thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Coming on. Thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you guys next.
Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
