Angel Garcia: It's my secret. Like, I'm not telling nobody about this. I have a buddy of mine that I'm talking to calls me up and and says, hey, I heard about what you got. Like, can you mind just throwing me on there? He's like and he's a he's a close friend.
So I put him on and then he calls me back like, dude, this thing is insane. Insane. You have to start selling this thing. I'm like, hell no. I'm not gonna be selling this thing.
This is our secret weapon. Right? Like, you're on it. Like, let's just take over. He goes, no.
No. No. You don't understand. I have another buddy that started this other company that that's an email company. They're running the same thing, deliverability.
And I'm like, so what? He's like, no. No. No. He just got an offer from realtor.com to sell this company for a 100,000,000.
I'm like, what? 100,000,000? So I hang up the phone and I call my developer and I'm like, yo. We're gonna get this thing started right now. Yeah.
And then that's when the LDR Wow. Actually came up.
Steve Trang: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of Disruptors, where millionaires are made. Today, we have Angel Garcia with Enzo Dialer and Angel Flynn from Medellin, Colombia to talk about how he makes millions a year working part time and remotely. Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on this show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you take consistent action, you will become one.
And if you're already a millionaire, we want to recognize you. So please scan that QR code on the screen right now to let us know so that we can recognize you. And if you want more help to become a millionaire even faster, you can also scan that same QR code. And before we jump in, if you're here to learn how real entrepreneurs are building real empires, hit that subscribe button because every week we're dropping lessons that can help you create your first or your next million. And today's show is brought to you by Objection Proof AI.
So if you're ready to turn your existing sales team into a self managing sales team, go to objectionproof.ai. Ready? Ready. Alright. So, like, reviewing the notes, you do a lot of things.
This is a very impressive book of I wouldn't say business. Book of businesses
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: That you got going on. So, obviously, you got a lot going on. But let's talk about what was your life like right before you got into real estate?
Angel: So, that's, that's interesting because I I got into real estate pretty much like it feels like when I look back at it, it was right after high school. But at that time, it felt like it was a long period of time of me, like, trying to figure things out. But I was actually a a personal trainer.
Steve: Okay.
Angel: As a personal trainer, I was working at LA Fitness. Mhmm. And, you know, I only did that job because my dad wouldn't let me get into real estate. My my entire family is in real estate. My uncles are lenders.
My my dad's a real estate agent. So yeah.
Steve: He's trying to protect you?
Angel: Yeah. Well, because the market had just crashed. The the real estate market had just, it was, it was still in in in the slumps. Like, it was 2012. Like, it was about to come out of it.
I I graduated in no. Sorry. It was 2010. Mhmm. So it was still literally at the bottom, and it's still, like, crashing further.
You know, this you're you're hearing about people committing suicide, and I knew my my dad's friends and stuff like that. So it was really bad. So he he was really trying to push me away from, from real estate. Alright. But he was really successful.
So I I was I naturally gravitated towards it because I was like, dude, this is gonna be awesome. I you know, my dad does it. I feel like I'm about to just jump into the family business and just get into it. But as soon as I turned 18, he's like, no. As far away as you possibly can.
Mhmm. And I gravitated towards, sales jobs. And, I was supposed to go to college, but I ended up just working.
Steve: Right.
Angel: And, at LA Fitness, I started focusing on on yeah. It was personal training, but it was more of a sales job. Like, you had to sell personal training.
Steve: Right. So, like, were you, the person at the front desk trying to sell personal training? Or are they like, hey. Like, if you're interested, go talk to that guy. He'll show you what you need to do.
Like, how does that I don't even understand that model.
Angel: Yeah. So when I when I got started, it was actually so it was actually Bally's before it became LA Fitness. It became LA Fitness while I was working there. But what you get a job there, and then they say, okay. Cool.
So now your first the first thing you need to do is go find clients. Like, wait. I thought you guys give me clients. They're like, no. That's what I thought.
Yeah. That's not
Steve: how it works.
Angel: No. Okay. So you you basically have access to the club where you're able to go prospect and talk to everybody that's there to see if you can get them to sign up for personal training. You know? I see.
So they didn't really give you any systems or anything like that. They're just like, you seem like you can probably, make this work. Go ahead and try. And it's funny because the I'm I'm thinking I'm getting a job as a personal trainer. Mhmm.
They they they took me into the interview room, and then tell me how you can sell. Okay. Right? And I'm like, oh, okay. So this is a complete different than what I thought.
Right.
Steve: A job job.
Angel: Yeah. It's it was it was it was very different. Yeah. And you're only allowed to clock in when you were actually, like, training, which was, you know, interesting. Yeah.
So it was definitely, like, just pretty much a sales job.
Steve: Right.
Angel: Anyway, so I started doing that, and at first, it took me a bit to kinda get the hang of it. Mhmm. But it was something that I was naturally gravitating towards because my dad did it Mhmm. Through in real estate. And really quickly, I became, like, the number one guy in that club.
And then, like, a monthly like, they had, like, their leaderboards. Yeah. And then I I became number one in the, like, the region. Mhmm. And every time I I would go up, like, a rank, and I I would go back to my dad.
I'm like, hey. Can I get into real estate now? Can I get into real estate now?
Steve: Am I good enough yet?
Angel: Yeah. He said, no. You're not going up against real salespeople and stuff. So he was playing hard to get. So, anyways, I I ended up becoming number one in the nation.
And every single time as I was ranking, I was Number
Steve: one in the nation.
Angel: Number one in the nation. Yeah.
Steve: LA Fitness.
Angel: At LA Fitness. Yeah. So they called
Steve: it king of the hill. That's an accomplishment. Yeah.
Angel: It felt like it at the time, for sure. But my income wasn't there.
Steve: Oh, yeah. I mean, you're working at a company, and what can you what are the margins on personal training?
Angel: Yeah. Well, they they they told me it was gonna be pretty good. Like, I I dropped out of school because of it because they showed me a piece of paper of, like, what your income potential was, but it never actually turned out
Steve: That's all my earnings.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much.
Steve: Yeah. So what what were you promised?
Angel: It was, like, a $150 a year.
Steve: What did you get?
Angel: I got, like, $60.70. The number one guy
Steve: in the country?
Angel: The number one guy in the country. Yeah. It was, like, and it was supposed to get there, but what happened is, like, it's all in project projections, but it's a moving target. So when you break a certain target, they they have, like, a a bonus structure where you had to now outperform the previous month. So you're like, even though you you're the best guy Mhmm.
You're still based on yeah. It's based off of, like, what you how much did you outpace or how outgrow Mhmm. Your awesome month last month. Mhmm. That's why we so, you know, it worked out well to where I I kind of kept hitting those bonus structures, but then they would also change my position in that process Mhmm.
To, like like, manager, personal trainer type of thing. Yeah. Anyways, the, every time I would go up a rank, I would literally go back to my dad. My dad was like, you know, you're not you're not talking to, real salespeople. And I knew he was working at a brokerage where they had leaderboards, and they would show everybody's income from top to bottom.
And I and the way that I finally got him is, I went in when I was number one in the country, and I said, look. It's literally not gonna get any better than this.
Speaker 2: I've capped out.
Angel: I've capped out. Like, this is as good as it's gonna get. And then this is how much income I'm I'm making right now. And it was getting better. Right?
But then I went over to the leaderboard for the brokerage, and I said, take a look at how much this person is making. We know her very well. Mhmm. Like, you mean to tell me that she like, she she's out earning me and that she can outsell me? You got you know I'm gonna do at least better than her, and her income is almost double mine.
Steve: Alright. And
Angel: then finally, let me enter real estate.
Steve: So was he the broker? Like, what was it you're just looking for dad's approval?
Angel: No. Just well, I wanted dad's approval.
Steve: Are we gonna, like, name names? Like, we're gonna
Angel: talk about this lady? It's probably not a good idea.
Steve: So looking back here because we're we're we're gonna continue the journey. But, you know, we run multiple businesses now. Yeah. One of the things that has been fascinating for me recently is compensation. Like, how do you reward the behavior that you want?
Right? Because if you're not rewarding the behavior you want, then you're not gonna get the behavior that you want. Right? So that experience where, like, no matter what you did, you couldn't make really the kind of money you wanted to make. Specifically, if you're driving revenue for revenue for the company because it's recurring revenue in personal training.
Like, this isn't like wholesaling where it's like it's active income. It's like, you may you produce this much this past month, and that guy is not you're not buying another house from him probably. But in personal training, we're, like, it's recurring. Right? You sign this person on.
As long as you do a good job, they're gonna stay with you, and you keep keep making money from them. So looking at how your compensation is based more on growth than revenue, does that affect your comp your your decision process in compensation?
Angel: Yeah. Well, because it's a moving target. I knew that, you know, I'm I I have to do something extraordinary every single month Mhmm. To to make the income that I was supposed to be making. So at that point, it's kinda like, you know, to your point, where I think the direction that you're going with that is that they're saying, hey.
Don't don't blow it out. Like, don't don't kill it too much this month because then the next month's gonna be really hard to hit. Right. So the rewarding behavior that basically says, hey. Maybe you should, like, tone it down a little bit more because that way you can hit a bonus every single month.
Right? As soon as I get one more sale, take the rest of the the the month off. Yeah. That's probably what I should have done to do bonuses, but I was more, at the time, like, my my true goal was to show my dad.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. But even the other thing.
Steve: Right? Like, retaining customers wasn't even important then. Right?
Angel: Like No. So that's they so they separated out. So remember I was telling you that they moved me in positions. Mhmm. So they took me they so when I went in, I realized that the money was actually in in being a good salesperson versus being a good personal trainer.
Steve: Right.
Angel: So I I immediately, like, started doing well with the sales side. I wasn't doing that great in the personal training side because I was still kinda young figuring things out. But the sales side was easy because I've I've I've understood the numbers game. Right? Right.
I ended up getting promoted to only sell. Mhmm. So my job was no longer to train anymore. They said, okay. You're doing really good at this.
Let's get this off of you.
Steve: Oh, that's good.
Angel: Yeah. And that's when they called you, like, personal training director. So I need
Steve: You're a personal trainer who doesn't
Angel: train. Exactly. Yeah. You're you direct clients over to the trainers.
Steve: Got it. Okay. And then I apologize to everyone listening. I'm just asking for curiosity now.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Right. So, like, what is the prospecting behavior then as a personal trainer? Because, like, I've gone to gyms, and there are personal trainers. Like, they're like, they'll come over as, like, I'm not interested. And they don't mean, like, give it a second shot.
Yeah. Maybe I'm a maybe I'm intimidated. I don't know. So They just walk around while people are lifting and, like, ask if they want help?
Angel: Yeah. Okay. So I'll I'll kinda show you how it happened for me. So, like, when I first it it was through different phases. Right?
So phase one was, like, understanding the numbers game. So that was the first thing that was introduced to me when I was, like, hey. Oh, this is a sales job? Mhmm. Okay.
Cool. Well, sales is a is a numbers game. Right? And I had to, like, understand the concept. So it was literally that.
It was as dry and as nasty as it can get. It was literally just let me go ahead and talk to every single person that's on the treadmill. And those are the easiest ones because people
Steve: that go to
Angel: yeah. They they they do the treadmill usually because they're afraid of the weight section. Mhmm. And then they're they're just trying to burn, like, calories and stuff. And it's usually like they're especially when they're all the way in the back, they're just timid.
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: So I knew that that was kinda like the area. And that that I figured out over time, but I I figured out there were numbers again. I literally went to every single person that was in the gym and would just ask them, hey. Would you want a free personal training session? And then someone would say yes.
Some of them would say, you know, f off. And then once they did that, then it was going through the entire database of people that hadn't jumped in or come back into the gym Mhmm. For a month or something. Because we have a prospecting. Yeah.
So they would just call them and then say, hey. You haven't been in in a while. I wanted to come in. Wanted to offer you guys a a free personal training session. And then during the training session, then I get a chance to,
Steve: you know Yeah. It's So this is similar to, like, you know, you go to every smoothie place. Yeah. And you have this raffle for a chance to win a free, day of of gym membership. Yeah.
And magically, everyone wins that free day.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. It's kinda like, you know, oh, congratulations. Yeah. But it it wasn't even so much that.
Like, it was pretty straightforward. Like, hey, I'm I'm offering it to you because I'm trying to sell personal training. Right? That, like, that part was pretty clear. Prove my value.
Yeah. I wanna prove the value. Let me give you one for free. Let me give you one for free so you can try it out and then see the difference in the workout that you're gonna get versus the ones that you've been doing on your own. It's gonna hurt.
It's gonna feel you know, endorphins are gonna be released, but you'll you'll come back.
Steve: Yeah. We've actually called out the drug dealer model. Yeah. Right? So there's a reason why it works so well.
Right. Yeah. Works very well. Okay. So then your dad finally is on board.
Yeah. Alright, Angel. You can work with me. You can work in real estate. Like, what was the next step?
Angel: Well, I wanted to work with him because he was really good. He he was the number one agent in in my market at the time.
Steve: Really? Okay. LA?
Angel: In in in the San Fernando Valley Of LA. So LA is massive. Right? And it's really wide. Yeah.
So there's different parts of LA. So the follow-up question is always, like, what part of LA? Right? So San Fernando Valley, so that's that's where he was the number one agent.
Steve: Sure. Okay. And then, like, you're showing up as a buyer's agent, listing agent, like, you're door knocking.
Angel: When I got started, it was literally like, I didn't even have my license yet. So it was literally just, I'm gonna be your assistant. I'll do a you you you say jump out. I'll say, oh, hi. What what do you want me to do?
And it was such a different relationship because I was, as a kid, you know, I didn't I didn't, leave the house, willingly. I got kicked out. Mhmm. So, coming back and being super obedient was completely different and weird for both of us, humbling, for me. And going through six months of just watching him do his thing Mhmm.
And he's already starting to do, like, flip properties and so on, which is basically how I started getting into the investment side as well. Mhmm. That, started off as his assistant and then helping him, like, do a couple of showings. And then I immediately wanted to get into the listing sites, because I started doing a lot of Mike Ferry coaching and training even before I got licensed. So You
Steve: had Mike Ferry before you got licensed?
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Why'd you do Mike Ferry before you get licensed before you get licensed?
Angel: My dad was doing it. Got it. Yeah. My dad was doing it, and then, a couple other agents at the office, like, the ones that were at the top of the the rankings, they were all doing Mike Ferry. So I was like, some is it there's something there?
There's definitely something there. Yeah. So I got my credit card.
Steve: So for those that don't know what we're talking about, who's Mike Ferry?
Angel: He's, number one's, I think he's still number one. Him him or his son, but Mhmm. Definitely one and two. Number one real estate, sales coaching for real estate agents. Mhmm.
Or, like, usually more, like, entry level Yeah. From what I've seen.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, so, like, Mike Ferry's thing was pretty simple
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Which is just cold call.
Angel: Yeah. Alright. Well, it's it's prospect. Right? Because he he says go to the door or or call.
Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. But, I mean, it it was effective. Right? Like, basically alright. So, like, here's all the people's homes that expired.
Here's all the listings that canceled. Right? When I was doing it, it was like, alright. Like, Mojo comes with phone numbers. Right?
So, like, that's where we got our skip tracing
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Was the Mojo dialer. It sucks. Alright? Yeah. And, well, it sucks today.
Yeah. But, like, in 2010
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Like, that was a big deal.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I yeah. It was it was a big deal.
Like, being able x? Like, man Yeah. You were
Steve: on it.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Red x and then Vulcan was, like, the secret sauce.
Steve: Yeah. Vulcan's like, man, everyone had Vulcan. Like, it was exclusive. Yeah. Yeah.
No. I remember those days.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. So the, interesting thing. So fun funny little fact that I kinda put together afterwards. Mhmm.
So LA Fitness had training, like, documents and stuff. Yeah. All those training documents, I later found out. I was like, man, this looks oddly similar. When I got into real estate, and I was looking at the scripting over there, I was like, this looks really, really similar.
Mhmm. Like, almost identical. Anyways, it it it allowed me to pick up on the scripts Mhmm. For real estate pretty quickly. And then I'm sitting at one of the Mike Ferry events, and then Mike Ferry says, oh, yeah.
One of my friends, you know, says their name, and it says the owner of the LA Fitness. And he says, yeah. They own all the LA Fitnesses. And I was like, I think Mike Ferry created all the scripts for, like, the sales process Oh, it makes sense. For LA Fitness.
Yeah. Like, the qualification, everything was almost identical.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So you signed up right out of the gate for coaching. Yeah. How old were you?
19? 19 years old. You signed up for Mike Ferry Coaching, which I'm guessing was a thousand bucks a month. What were you paying?
Angel: Yeah. Thousand bucks a month. Thousand bucks a
Steve: month, which is in an alignment with all my friends that did Mike Ferry coaching. Yeah. So a thousand bucks a month at 19 years old, there's no small commitment. Yeah. How hard was it for you to do that?
Angel: It was scary. It was it was scary to pull out the credit card. Mhmm. But it was the best thing I ever did. Yeah.
Because I got direct coaching and guidance on what I needed to do, and it was extremely necessary at that point. Well,
Steve: it's helpful to see your dad go through it and see all these other top producers do it. So I signed up for Craig Proctor. I I couldn't get into Mike Ferry. I it was just too much for me.
Angel: Yeah. He's yeah. He he's aggressive.
Steve: Yeah. But, I mean, I went to Craig Proctor, and I went to a Craig Proctor conference. And it was the same thing. It's like, oh, like, that guy is successful. That guy is successful.
How come his badge is different? That guy has a nice badge. That guy has a nice badge. And you you talk to him at lunch. Like, hey.
Like because I showed up, I got a $300, like, day pass, right, just, like, visiting the the seminar. Like, what do you guys all do? And he's like, oh, you know, we're platinum members. Like, what does that mean? He's like, they'll tell you later.
Right? But you see all these models as success. Yeah. And then, like, okay, that is legit. It's a lot easier.
It wasn't easy. Like, I still remember sweating, right, doing a thousand dollar month to month commitment. But I still remember that I still remember that night because I couldn't sleep. It was like, man, am I really gonna commit to something for a
Angel: thousand bucks a month? Yeah. And then they have, like, a twelve month contract on it too.
Steve: Mike Ferry did definitely have a contract.
Angel: Oh, okay. All I did have
Steve: a contract. That was like Craig Procter didn't, but Mike Ferry did.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: And I know that because when I was considering Mike Ferry this is back in the day when rip off reports was still a thing. Like, they don't really have it so much anymore. Yeah. But, like, should I go my fairy? Like, the first results rip off report, and it's like, he's suing me for this and that.
I was like, oh, it's kinda discouraging.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. He's he's, he's aggressive. He's aggressive. I've seen it in in many different cases, especially when, like, you know, anything company really when it comes to the business stuff.
He's also really aggressive. He's aggressive in in in nature.
Steve: He's aggressive. And because, like, I remember going through his coaching, like, because I even though I didn't go pay for his coaching, Brent Daniels, right, TTP, gave me all his DVDs. One point, we're just hanging out for lunch. He's like, hey. Here's some DVDs you should go watch.
And so I did. I watched all of them. I remember, like, one of the modules was, like, make sure, like, you know, prospecting times, prospecting times, calling times, calling time or, you know, relationship time is relationship time, which that guy probably doesn't have relationships with my guest. But he's like, prospecting time is like, hey, mom. This is a business call.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
There there's some stuff in there that's a little bit tough because it's just like yeah. And and it's funny because, you know, my thing is is when I when I would show up to the, to the events Mhmm. You know, I I don't wanna, like, reinvent the wheel. I just wanna implement what works. And I saw the guys that had the badges or the ones that all had the the money.
There's these guys who've been doing coaching for a long time. And then I looked at our company, and our our company, the top agents were all, like, very agents. So I'm like, well, just do exactly what he tells me to do. And then that was, like, part of it too. It was just like, hey, mom.
This is a business call. Yeah. So I would call friends and family member that I would normally say, hey. What's up, man? I would call them like, hey, John.
This is a business call. Mhmm. That didn't go very well. But then you realize that not everybody's doing everything on there, and then you gotta, like, pick and choose what you wanna actually pull out of that.
Steve: That's the ideal. I never called mom for a business call. Yeah. I want maybe you should've, but I never did.
Angel: She listed with my neighbor.
Steve: So okay. So you do this thing. You do the coaching with Mike Ferry, but you also mentioned you had to do investments. So did you do the realtor thing for a bit and then transition?
Angel: I did it for ten years. Yeah. I I
Steve: You do the realtor thing for ten years.
Angel: I was selling over a 100 homes a year as a as a realtor. Okay.
Steve: So you crushed it? Crushed it. Alright. Alright. So you're crushing on the realtor side.
Why did you do anything else?
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Angel: So, being a realtor is very taxing. Yeah. There's a lot of emotions, and then you're the point contact. There's there's benefits to being, like, a wholesaler and being an investor. So, like, the one of the biggest ones is that I realized that I was very strapped to what I was doing.
Number one is that, like, just the emotional drain. That was the big one. Right? Because people are calling you when they're freaking out and so on and and and and you're usually not delegating, like, someone going out and taking a listing for you. There's people that do, but it's it's a little bit more rare.
Mhmm. I'm going out to listing appointments. I'm driving out to all of them. I'm in a suit all day long. I'm a therapist at the same time as I'm talking to people trying to calm them down and, you know, keep them from going over a cliff, fighting over, like, a smoke detector.
Mhmm. You know, so it's just kinda, like, silly things like that. And then I also started realizing that I was, like, a little bit more restricted on when I could travel. And then my nights and my weekends were also pretty much taken up because that's when usually when I like, people wanna do real estate stuff. Mhmm.
Steve: Right? Like a problem. Go look at houses. You can choose your hours
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: As long as you agree to everyone else's hours.
Angel: Yeah. And that's the that's the the hard part about it. So, anyways, I realized, on the investment side, I could make more money Mhmm. And then I can also do it in less time, and I can delegate it a lot easier. And then the big thing when I started, like, doing some more stuff a little bit further out was that as a realtor, I'm selling a service, and I'm calling them, hey.
Do you wanna use me as a realtor? Right? Where I'm calling somebody and, like, they they'll they'll only trust you, like, in a small geographical area. Mhmm.
Steve: But when
Angel: I'm calling someone and offering them a bag of cash
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: They'll accept my money anywhere. Yeah.
Steve: You're not a market specialist. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Or you don't specialize in
Angel: my neighborhood. Yeah. My my my money's good anywhere. You know, that's that's the difference with being, like, an investor versus a realtor is that you get the ability to now really expand Mhmm. And then start doing some stuff remotely.
Steve: That makes sense. Yeah. That's one
Speaker: of the things that
Steve: I saw over and over again with my friends that did do do Mike Ferry. It was, like, vacations didn't really exist because the moment you got off the phones is the moment business stopped. Right?
Angel: Well, no. It it to for me, it felt like it was just like when chaos would, like, start. Right? And it's just like you you try to get away and then all of a sudden, like, something needs your approval or something somebody needs to talk to you about the silliest thing. Right?
Like, it's a disclosure, this and that. And then, you know, I have my staff. Right? But it doesn't it it still doesn't get as delegated as nicely as you would want. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So then was it what was the transition like? Was it was that the first thing you added? Like, you went from realtor and then you and then you added the investment side?
Or was it like, what was the next business you added?
Angel: So the first thing I started doing was flipping properties. So that was the very first thing I started doing. So how
Steve: did you get into flipping properties?
Angel: My dad. My dad was already starting to get into flips. When I started as a when I got started as a realtor, he was already almost full time flipper. Okay. So I I he he was able to coach me into doing sales and everything else, but he was already doing something else.
Mhmm. And then what started happening is that I started getting some money, from what I was doing, and then I saved up enough to buy my own properties. Mhmm. And then I didn't really have a construction crew. He did.
So then we started partnering on on deals. And then we we started doing that alongside as I was doing my sales and stuff. So it it it didn't take very long for me to start realizing, like, this was way sweeter. Mhmm. Right?
I'm making a lot more money, in a lot less time with a lot less deals. And I'm like and then And drama. A lot ease what's that?
Steve: And less drama.
Angel: Yeah. Less drama, but, like, it's a lot easier to deal with, people when you're the seller. Mhmm. Right? Like Yeah.
Sellers are not not the funnest to deal with sometimes, especially on the real estate transactions. Because in the wholesale and the investment and the investment side, you have the ability of having a lot of control over the transaction. In the retail side, you're working with lenders, warrant home warranty companies, title companies. You work with those in the other side too, but, the there's there's two parties on that transaction. So this is like there's more things and more moving parts that can go wrong on longer transactions.
Now with novations, people are starting to see, like, it gets a little bit messier too. Yeah. But
Steve: It's a marriage, and it's a blend.
Angel: Yeah. But you you you get compensated a lot more with novations than you do as a realtor.
Steve: For sure.
Angel: So you're willing to put up with a little bit more of that.
Steve: Yeah. You
Angel: have more than to delegate a little bit easier too.
Steve: Right. Okay. So, first flip came from a client? Or
Angel: it came from a for sale by owner.
Steve: Okay.
Angel: Yeah. The first flip, I reached out to somebody, and they said, no. I don't wanna, list my house. Mhmm. I said, well, I can get it sold for you and sell it.
Yeah. Like, it's a really good property, you know, like, you know, in the sense of, like, it's attractive to an investor. Mhmm. Right? So I knew I can sell it right away.
He was like, nope. I don't wanna work with anybody. And I said, well, I'm, like, trying to figure out how I can, like, make money on this deal because I know that there's money there. And they're like, well, maybe I should try making this my first deal to actually purchase.
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: So I made an offer, and he kept telling me, like, screw off. But he says, if you got a buyer, then bring them. And I said, okay. Well, how about I buy it?
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: And then that was it. That was my first deal.
Steve: Yeah. Fairly smooth?
Angel: Yeah. It was actually that actually very, very smooth. So,
Steve: you said you were kicked out of your house?
Angel: Yeah. I I would argue with my dad a lot.
Steve: Okay. And then you work for your dad?
Angel: Yeah. I was a shithead. It was it was on my end.
Steve: Right. Yeah. And you flipped with your dad? Yeah. So how was that?
Angel: So more good than bad. There was, there was definitely some moments where it was, like, we didn't see eye to eye on a couple of things.
Steve: But for them
Angel: I mean Yeah.
Steve: You have a history.
Angel: Yeah. So, but I did my best to be as humble as possible because I got my ass kicked when I left home because I I left home at 17. Mhmm. I'd already graduated high school, but, I I I left home because I I wanted to, and then he was kinda like, you know, get out of here, don't think. So it was mutual.
Like, it wasn't a full, like, you know, you're out against your world. Like, I'm trying to stay, and I was I didn't wanna be here anyways. Right? Mhmm. So I went out, and I'm thinking I'm gonna kick ass and take over the world.
Steve: Yeah.
Angel: And that did not happen at all. I ended up with, like, three different jobs and, you know, and then I ended up at LA Fitness, and that's the one that actually paid me enough to where I can get rid of the other ones. Mhmm. At least had my attention. It was really, really rough.
So I got really, really humbled. So it was very, very easy to listen to dad at this point because, everything that he was saying was, more right than wrong.
Steve: Got it. Okay. So then you started flipping. How long were you flipping? I mean, I guess, how long were you flipping until you started looking at other stuff other options?
Angel: So so I went, flipping to then wholesaling. Mhmm. And wholesaling happened by accident. I went to a Rafael Vargas event. Mhmm.
And I I just wanna learn how to take more listings. And I was like, man, these guys are figuring out like, I I saw something, like him online. I ran into him somewhere online. Mhmm. And I see that he's taken a lot of, he's doing a lot of deals.
I think he was saying he's doing, like, twenty, thirty deals or so. Mhmm. At at the time, I'm like, dude, I'm not doing that as a realtor, and this guy's doing it as investment, making more money and and the whole thing. I'm like, Let me see. Like, he's calling the same people that I'm trying to get a hold of.
Let me go learn these tricks. Mhmm. I oh, you actually know my buddy that I went with, Jose Luis Morales. Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Good guy. So we went down the exact same path. And and Adrian Hernandez too. Yeah.
So the so all from Mike Ferry. Yeah. So, anyways, we we went to this event, and then immediately, I went there to learn about listings and maybe pick up a couple of flips here. And then I was like, woah. This wholesaling thing is a much better business than everything else.
And, yeah, that's that's kind of where I got the bug. And then when I came back, I was like, dude, I'm doing the exact same thing that I'm that that I'm currently doing. I'm just, like, pitching slightly different, but I and I get the opportunity to make more money, and I get the opportunity to expand. Because the biggest, difference, let's see, that that that I was noticing was that and this would always frustrate me. I'm in Los Angeles.
I'm working, like, you know, fourteen hours a day. It's super, super competitive in LA. Right? And then I would see guys that, like, don't have half of the sales skills, and they're in, like, Oklahoma or something like that. And they're doing, like, 300 deals a year, and I'm like, what?
I've I've I've heard you. Like, I hear how you operate. I see how you operate. I've I we've rolled You're
Steve: not admiring their sales skills.
Angel: No. I'm like, what is going on over there? Yeah. So, anyways, I finally got an opportunity to test it out by by going into different markets with the wholesale side. So that was, like, the first level that was really attractive to me.
And then I can make it more transactional and delegate more of it instead of doing it all myself. So Yeah. Anyways, that's that's how that transition happened.
Steve: When was this?
Angel: 2020. That that was the other thing too. So it was because, COVID hit. Mhmm. So COVID made it really easy to try something else out.
Steve: Oh, there you go. Yeah.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Steve: So you start doing other markets. You see one nationwide after Rafael's event?
Angel: No. I started doing it in my own market first, but I started testing it by just going maybe, like, two hours out of, like, my my normal area.
Steve: I see.
Angel: And then I started going wider and wider. Because I knew that outside of LA, you still have, like, Inland Empire and other counties that are less competitive. Mhmm. It's still good. Yeah.
But I know that they're less competitive. And they were.
Steve: Yeah. And it's not you're already close with with, Adrian? What's that? You're close with Adrian Hernandez?
Angel: Yeah. Well, during, like, Mike Ferry. During Mike Ferry, you know, it was just like we're He's running at every single yeah. We're we're at every single event and stuff like that. And he was with Danny Morell at the time Mhmm.
Which is, you know, someone that he worked with for a long time. He was a big guy at Mike Ferry as well. Mhmm.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So your eyes are open. There's another way in real estate to give you more money. Yeah.
And so you start going outside your market. So how was that transition?
Angel: Like, in transition?
Steve: Like, was it simple? Was it challenging?
Angel: At first, it was very, very simple because it was still in LA. Mhmm. So, like, I knew that my fallback whenever stuff would hit the fan is I can just drive out there. Yep. So it it didn't feel too difficult.
Like, learning, I already knew real estate. Mhmm. So it didn't feel too difficult. But then once I started doing stuff out of state, that's where it started getting really tricky because I'm like, man, I I don't have the fallback. Mhmm.
So my confidence was lower. I didn't realize that you know, I I like, I knew other states work different, but I didn't really quite understand it, like, escrow versus, like, title and then attorneys and stuff. So then it like, that was a little bit different. It it ended up being the same thing, but in my head, it it psyched me out.
Steve: Yeah. Well, I could say because we do title and escrow in one office here. Yeah. And I remember going to a a real estate event in California, and they're, like, they're talking about, like, yeah. You have a title company?
You have an escrow company. I was, like, what? Yeah. They're two different companies?
Angel: Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, what are you
Steve: talking about? Like, for me, from Arizona, like, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Right? It's always one building and one company.
Angel: It makes more sense your way.
Steve: Yeah. But, yeah, they they are always different companies. So, yeah, I I can totally see that. And, you know, I said this before, you know, the when I started the podcast, if you noticed the first 10 episodes, it was, realtor, wholesaler, realtor, wholesale, realtor.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: I remember that. 2018. Yeah. And the point was, one of my points was to marry this world of realtors and wholesalers because, like, there's no reason and I've been saying this since 2018 because I was doing both. There's no reason to be beefing with each other.
Yeah. But they were. So I was like, man, like, let's let's, like, unite this thing. And after ten ten episodes, I was like, alright. Screw it.
This this is not a battle, or this is not, like, my thing to do. Like Yeah. We'll just let them hate each other. That's fine. I'll just make money on both sides.
Angel: Yeah. It's it's kinda hard to shape the entire industry. I think, yeah.
Speaker: But do you want both?
Angel: Well, so now I run, the brokerage, that I was working at. So my team got kind of cannibalized by my my wholesale team. Everybody kinda like, oh, the grass is greener on that side. Of course. And then I enjoyed a whole lot more.
Mhmm. But I'm still involved in the brokerage. Mhmm. So that's that's something completely different too. Mhmm.
And it's a very marginal it's, it's not the same thing. It's like the numbers look big on one end, but they're, like, small margin. It's a small margin business.
Steve: I had an article written. And, Alexi, you're an 8 figure business? I was like, well, you look at the brokerage revenue.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Don't look at the net. Yeah. You look at the brokerage revenue, like, oh, there's a lot of money coming through the brokerage.
Angel: I'm a revenue rock star.
Steve: Yeah. It's like, you know, like, I take, like, single percentage, single digit percentages of that. But if we're gonna base off our revenue
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: This is what I qualify for.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Right? Yeah. I remember, like, someone, like, man, I didn't know how successful he was. Like, I'm not as successful as that article says. Like, they said give me an impressive status.
I'm I'm an 8 figure company.
Angel: Yeah. It's it it the brokerage world is very interesting. Right? Because it's small margin off the top end. Right?
Because you like, you know, cost of sale. Yeah. But then you also have, like, the way that they'll talk about numbers too. Right? Like, when you talk about, like, sales, though, you use the entire sales price of the home.
Oh, yeah. To talk about how awesome they are too.
Steve: I didn't do that. That's crazy. But, I heard this. I don't know if it's true. That's what I heard.
So you're familiar with, ClickFunnels?
Angel: Yeah. Right? Russell Brunson.
Steve: Russell Brunson. Yeah. And you get, like, these, these these plaques, these awards, right, for being a a half mill or a million dollar producer in this Yeah. I heard, that they were verifying now with realtors, like, you know, not show me your HUDs, but, like, show me, like, you actually brought in a million dollars worth of revenue.
Angel: Oh, no. No. No. So million dollar producer in real estate
Steve: Doesn't mean that.
Angel: Doesn't mean million dollar, like, income. It means I sold one house that was over a million dollars.
Steve: Right.
Angel: That's literally, like, what it what it meant. And that's what always, like, threw me off. Like, everybody's got this million dollar producer thing that they that they got in there, but that's what they were that that's that's what they're always referring to.
Steve: Right.
Angel: Now, it it does you don't see it as often anymore, at least not in my area because literally every home is now
Steve: over the month. Producer. Yeah. I know. But, like, the the the guys to get their their their, ClickFunnels Awards were submitting, like, these, like, handful of transactions.
They sold a million dollars worth of houses so they didn't get the Russell Brunson ClickFunnels plaque.
Angel: Oh, wow.
Steve: And so they stopped realtors, like or they started verifying with realtors.
Angel: Oh, I see what you're saying. So realtor realtors were doing their ClickFunnels.
Steve: Yeah. Realtors were submitting for ClickFunnels Awards, and all they did was sold, like, a couple million houses. A couple million dollars in houses, which mean they made, like, 60,000 in commission.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't that that shouldn't qualify.
Steve: No. Definitely shouldn't qualify. So, like, someone told me, like, man, that is crazy, but also that doesn't surprise me. Yeah. Okay.
So you actually run a brokerage still. Yeah. You run the brokerage. You're still flipping?
Angel: A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. We're still doing a few flips.
Steve: So then pretty much is all your attention wholesaling? You're doing other things now too?
Angel: Yeah. No. I I run a solar company and
Steve: a software company. Okay. So which came first? Solar? Solar.
Software? Solar.
Angel: And a call center. Sorry.
Steve: Okay. And a call center. Okay. Which came first? Solar or call center?
Angel: The solar company came first.
Steve: Okay. So why did you get into solar?
Angel: I it's a real estate. I'm I'm married to it. Right? Like, I'm I'm in it, but I still hold this fear of seeing, like, what happened in o eight because my entire family was in it. So just knowing all the people that started, like, you know, committing suicide because of how bad things got, and then constantly seeing different dips that happen, in the real estate business and then how everybody's rich during the summer but broke during the winter.
Mhmm. I was like, you know what? It'd be nice to be able to get another layer of income that isn't so cyclical and then also so seasonal. Mhmm. So I wanted to find something else, that I can also do with my brother too because I wanted my brother to also kinda, like, start leveling up as a business owner.
Yeah. So it was a perfect opportunity because my brother is now, wanting to do something different too because he was working as a as a buyer's agent for me, and wanted to and just do something different. Yeah. So I did some research and and came across, solar. So the the qualification for me, like, for opening this other business was, like, I wanted something that was gonna be, a little bit more transactional, a little bit of an easier decision for people so it can happen quicker.
So it's a a smaller life cycle. Mhmm. I wanted to have the same exact sales process for what we already do in real estate, and I wanna be able to generate leads the same way. That way, it's like copy and paste. Mhmm.
That's that's how I came across solar.
Steve: That's a very interesting, filter for making a decision.
Angel: Yeah. It was very specific.
Steve: Did you get any help in figuring all that out, or did you figure it out yourself?
Angel: Well, no. I I started figuring out like, I started kind of, like like, put the criteria down, and then I kinda just waited for something to, like, come up to where I realized, oh, there it is. Mhmm. And that was What is them?
Steve: Do you go through, like, here's what I want my next business to look like?
Angel: Oh, well, I was just thinking about it for years. I don't know. Okay. Yeah. I I was thinking about it for years in the sense of, like, you know, well, the fear had me thinking about that for years.
Mhmm. The
Steve: fear had your eyes had your eyes open, like, there should probably be something else. Yeah. And along the way, like, hey. If something had this, this, this, this, then that would make sense.
Angel: Yeah. Over time, like, you go on vacation and you're like, you know what would be nice? Having more vacations. But I can't because I'm a realtor. Right.
So then you wanna you look for different things that you want. So, you know, I I write a lot of notes, so I put them down. And then, and then it was it it and it just showed up at some point. Right? Like, all of a sudden, I could see it, and I'm like, oh, yeah.
Here it is. Mhmm. So what
Steve: was it like starting a solar company?
Angel: It's it's very similar to the real estate side. Like, really, really similar. I have a buddy that, that that did did the same thing. Mhmm. And he he literally just copy and pasted his entire wholesale operation and then did it for solar, because you're basically wholesaling solar.
Mhmm. It's it's almost the the exact same thing.
Steve: You're arbitraging. You're arbitraging. Yeah. This isn't like this is Angel Garcia's solar company, and you gotta source the panels. You gotta source the salespeople.
No. You gotta source the installation.
Angel: Installation, panels, procurement for all those, items Mhmm. Is all coming from an installer. So consider them your flipper. So when you're wholesaling, you're basically just making the sale. Right?
Getting the property in a contract. Well, you're you're getting a homeowner in a contract. Right? And then you're assigning that contract over to a contractor, and then the contractor goes out and installs it. So that made it really simple.
It was a copy and paste of what I had before, and then it follows the same sales process. I can generate the leads over the phone, and then I can go through my sales process exactly the same way I do in real estate that I already I already know how it works.
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: And now I just need to know a couple of details of, like, the benefits and so on and Mhmm. Of of what what solar offers.
Steve: Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. And this is probably, like, really simple knowledge for most of the other people. I've never taken the time to learn about solar.
Angel: Yeah. So It's takes some it there it is different. Like, the language of it is is different. So you have to simplify it because they you start going into price per watt because that's when it starts coming into pricing and and so on. That's the that was the hardest part, of this entire, like, business model is understanding that part of the business.
Okay.
Steve: So explain that part. Which part? The part that's the hardest. Like, what what is difficult about it to understand?
Angel: So how to calculate it. Right? So that I don't think it's a good idea to go into that because that'll that can that that'll go down a a deep end. Mhmm. But, basically, it's like you you your cost is this.
Right? You know what the cost is to to install it. Mhmm. And then you're gonna sell it for whatever you wanna sell it for. It's gonna be this.
Mhmm. Right? So you the nice thing about solar is that you you know what your what your cost to to get that glass on the roof is. For the most part, there's a couple of little variables that'll happen from time to time. Mhmm.
And then you have to learn, you know, when those variables can come up. A little
Steve: bit of underwriting skills.
Angel: A little bit of underwriting. Right? And then the next part is just how good is your selling skills to where you can get someone to sign it and then also create a margin for yourself.
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: And then in some areas, the margin can be pretty large because there's areas that have really high electricity bills, and then, you know, low cost and so. Mhmm. So that means that it's easier to sell the benefits of, like, savings.
Steve: Alright. Yeah. I see. Okay. And then the installer is basically the flipper.
Angel: The flipper.
Steve: So that's interesting that they're the flipper. Yeah. So, basically, you're legitimately just assigning the contract to them. They're paying you for the contract.
Angel: So the light bulb went off.
Steve: Yeah. So then whose
Angel: name then
Steve: like, because you're signing a contract Yeah.
Angel: With the homeowner. Yep.
Steve: Once everything's said and done, this person's bought the rights to you to your contract.
Angel: They don't buy the rights. So the so it's it's a little bit different. It's not like I I I talk to five different contractors, look at which one has the best cost, and once I have the contract, so I you'll you'll give me the highest bid for it. I'm a give it to you. So it's worth a little bit different.
I I create the bid. Like, they they like, we almost get into a partnership together with our pre pre negotiated cost Mhmm. And then I'll put the property under contract Mhmm. With that company. So it doesn't the assignment doesn't happen afterwards.
Assignment happens real time when I'm with with the customer. Like, there are certain customers on the and, again, I'm not, you know, myself and my team is. Right? There's gonna be certain people that want something specific or there's, like, you know, a very steep roof. And then I know that this contract or can't do it or he has a higher cost to do it, so then it gets assigned to this contractor and signed.
But the contract happens real time when you're when you're getting it signed. I can't have this contract signed and then change who I wanna give it to.
Steve: I see.
Angel: Yeah. There's no assignment.
Steve: Alright. So you know who the person is gonna be involved once you sign the contract? Yes. Gotcha. Okay.
Well, it's interesting. Like, again, give me an education. Maybe some of these guys listening already know this, but I didn't know this, like, you know, like, with solar, with physical training. Right? And so, like, you know, like, Victor Heredia, a a mutual friend of ours, he's like, Steve, you gotta have Angel on a show.
I was like, okay. Why?
Angel: Why do I have to
Steve: like, why why is this, like, you have to. This is not like, hey. You should. Like, you have to. Right?
Yeah. And I was like, okay. Like, tell me why. And, like, sell me on this. And he's like, well, you're like, Angel's one of the smartest dudes in the business.
I was like, okay. That's cool. Like, I think I'm pretty smart, but alright. And and so but, you know, as you're explaining these things, like, what I appreciate about these conversations is how you simplify it. Right?
And that's the measure of intelligence. It's like the better the person can simplify and explain it at a third grade level, the more they understand the concepts. Yeah. I appreciate you.
Angel: Well, it's funny because I I have a scene, that I tell my team all the time, which is, simplicity scales Mhmm. Complexity fails.
Steve: Right.
Angel: I I say it all the time. Like, all my businesses, like, revolve around that scene. Mhmm.
Steve: Yeah. Well, I've got to experience that. I didn't I've never said it that concisely, but I've definitely experienced that. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So you got a solar going. And then, any rough patches in the beginning?
Angel: Yeah. So this the the one thing that was, uniquely different is that the the other part that I didn't mention that was one of my criteria points, which I actually made a mistake on, was that I thought that I was gonna be able to do solar than to just do it nationwide with a larger audience. Mhmm. Well, it turns out contractors are not the, like, straightforward and truthful people. Yeah.
They're a little shady sometimes. Mhmm. So we realized that getting stuff installed in, like, multiple different markets, like, creating that partnership with a trusted contractor was really, really tough. Mhmm. So that's the toughest part of the business.
Once you have that, scaling becomes a little bit easier. And then the other thing that I, didn't assess properly is that I thought it was gonna be easier to sell virtually. Mhmm. It turns out that the that the closing rate is much, much higher in person. Mhmm.
So that was those are two big things that were miscalculations. I thought right off the bat that, you know, getting someone to sell their house for a $100,000 under market was gonna be easier than getting somebody to, like, you know, agree to take $200, $300 a month in savings. It's easier to actually get someone to, you know, give you their give you their property at a discount.
Steve: Well
Angel: Surprising. Over the phone. Over the phone.
Steve: I would say the difference here is, one situation, the person's in a lot of pain. Yes. Another one, that person's like, well, I hope this makes me money in the long run. Yeah. It's a little different.
Angel: It's very different because the risk reward is different. Right? One of them solves a immediate problem, and then they're offering you a bag of cash. Yeah. And then the other one, it's like There's
Steve: a chance.
Angel: I don't know.
Steve: There's a there's a chance that this $203,100 a month is not actually gonna pan out. Yeah. Yeah. And we're gonna talk about sales skills a little bit because I think that's something that's really fascinating too. So then after this, you go into a call center.
Angel: Yeah. So the call center was built to service my own business. So a lot of my my business. Business or businesses? Businesses.
Steve: Okay. Because you got two different prospecting you got two companies that you require prospecting for.
Angel: Yeah. Well, and my and my real estate team as well at the time. Yeah. So all my businesses are running off of, you know, phone lead generation. Mhmm.
So I started the call center because I was using third party services, and I was using my own team members to, like, also make calls as well. Mhmm. And we started seeing a lot of inconsistencies and a lot of shady stuff going on with the third party companies Mhmm. To where, for multiple different reasons. For theft, we had to create our own.
Because of, lack of performance, we had to create our own Mhmm. Transparency, and then for, again, controlling a little bit more of, like, the process to be able to make those little tiny changes a little bit quicker
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: Made a difference. So I guess that set into performance.
Steve: Yeah. I think, one of the things that shocks me, because I was looking at this business a little bit. I never got into it. We did some certification for some companies, but we never, like, got into the VA companies. But one of the things that shocked me when I was kinda exploring this was, like, there were VA companies who felt like transparency was
Angel: unnecessary. Yeah. Yeah. No. So that that's the problem.
Steve: And it's like, how is this, like, even a justifiable position?
Angel: Yeah. So we, we ran into a lot of that. So you experienced it? I experienced a ton of it. I'm that's what I'm saying.
Like, I so at the time, I have, I don't know, maybe, like, 40 cold callers that I'm using through third party and and so on. Right? And, you know, don't even remember. We're making an ROI and stuff like that. But the thing is that, you know, it's like regardless if you're make if you're making money and someone's stealing from you, someone's still stealing from you.
Mhmm. And that never feels good. Right. And then when you can see it, you're like, yo. Can can you fix this?
Mhmm. And they're like, don't know what happened. And then it's happening again and again and again and again, and I'm like, this is not like, this is not by accident. This is a system. This is a system that's designed to be able to to grab from here and put someone over there and and so on.
So we so I started seeing a lot of that, and that that became a big problem so that then I had to, like, go ahead and fix it. It turned out to actually be a great solution. So when I started my call center, the beautiful thing about it was that I was able to now staff up, which now became, like, the back end for all my other businesses. So, like, little back end operations things are super, super helpful because now I'm able to get it at a low cost. So it became actually, like, a secret edge.
Mhmm. Not only did I reduce my cost, but I also increased performance and then also had, like, support. Like, whenever I need to test out a new employee for something Mhmm. I have I have a a a giant recruitment team that can now, like, get me people. So it's Alright.
Yeah. It's been one of the best things ever. But it's also one of the difficult, most difficult thing difficult things and one of the things that has the most moving parts.
Steve: Yeah. So having an agency is something I've never been desirous of, because of the the the human component. So Yeah. Let's talk about this. You decide, alright, we're starting a VA company.
Right?
Angel: When was this? 2022? 2022.
Steve: Okay. So in this decision, what is the first step you have to go do to go start this VA company?
Angel: Operations manager. Mhmm. I need someone to run it. Do
Steve: you hire an operations manager? Mhmm.
Angel: So the the the key is and the same thing with the solar, and then, we'll get into the next one after this. But, it's hiring from the top down. Mhmm. Right? So if you start, hiring from the bottom up, it gets it's really, really tough.
So the key thing, find the person that's gonna run it Mhmm. And then start adding other people under them. Mhmm. That's what if I if I did it the other way, it wouldn't I I Alright. I wouldn't have a couple businesses.
I would have one business.
Steve: And it's funny you say this because, like, we had Jesse Burrell who's on the show. We just recorded an episode, and his whole deal was, like, yeah, we were able to sell our company because we had the right people in the beginning.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Right? So let's talk about the operations manager. Promoted from within one of the other organizations or hired from,
Angel: somewhere else? Hired from somewhere else. Yeah. Okay.
Steve: So you hired this person. Does this person now go to Egypt, start interviewing people? Or They were already in Egypt. So So they're already in Egypt.
Angel: They were already
Steve: in Egypt. Operations manager right now for your company is
Angel: They already had experience. They had everything. They already knew the entire industry as a whole, so we just incentivized in order to be able to have them join our, company. She's an attorney. Mhmm.
She's amazing. And, she she she proved because I had hired her for different things over time. Mhmm. And then the opportunity kind of came up where it was like, alright. You know, she she's looking to do something else.
She wanted to go back to be an attorney in Southland. I'm like, wait. Wait. What if you become an operations manager Yeah. For a call center?
My call center. And she was all about it. And then she she she made the difference. She was the greatest like, the she's probably the best hire I've ever made. Oh, really?
She's amazing. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. So why is it everyone seems to go to Egypt. Right? Because we had Abdullah on the show talk about it. Yeah.
We got Aaron Bevins has talked about it. Yep. Let's see who else has got, Sean Grable who's coming up, in a few episodes. His his his is in Egypt. Stratton Brown, when he had his agency, they did a bunch in Egypt.
Carlos Reyes has his in like, what is it about Egypt? Because, like, the fad for the longest time not the fad, but the trend for the longest time was The Philippines. And then we went to South America. Yeah. And now it seems like all the call centers are in Egypt.
Angel: Cost and culture are gonna be the two big ones. Yeah. So the culture of the area and then the availability, like, is it is that market already familiar with, calling, or do you have to introduce it into the entire marketplace? So, like, if you go to, certain areas, like in Colombia, because I also hire from Colombia and and from The Philippines. Philippines is really easy to find talent.
Egypt has now become easy to find talent. Mhmm. Colombia is a lot harder to to really find that talent. That's why you see people like Scott and so on go out there to, like, build it. And I'm I'm spending some time out there as well, because it's it's not as big as it is in these other areas.
Mhmm. So the nice thing is is that when like, finding talent is always the hardest part. If you can find talent that's there in abundance, then that's where the call center is naturally gonna be at. Right.
Steve: Okay.
Angel: And then And they're educated. And they're educated. Yeah. For better or worse.
Steve: And how would it be worse?
Angel: Sometimes they know how to screw you over really well. They're sophisticated for sure.
Steve: Yeah. So, two different questions then. So, again, I mentioned Strand and Brad a moment ago. So we're talking because, like, I'm I'm building an AI.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Right. So we're talking best
Angel: guy to be able to do it. I I've seen your your trainees, by the way. I was mentioning to your guy. Yeah. I think it's like the I've never seen anybody break down sales better than you have.
And that's like, me going through a bunch of different training companies. I've never seen anybody break it down better. Like, the the stuff that goes on behind the scenes in the back of your head while you're trying to make a sale is the stuff that you found a way to, like, put into paper.
Steve: Right.
Angel: Yeah. It's yeah. Great
Steve: great great stuff. Study it. Had to study it real hard.
Angel: It it's like you reverse engineered Yeah. Sales. Mhmm. I I think as a matter of fact, you said it on one of your trainings once. It was that, you weren't naturally a good salesperson Mm-mm.
So you reverse engineered sales Yeah. To be able to, like, create this like, you systemized it.
Steve: All of it. Yeah. Systemized all of it. Yeah. The only thing that I had to my advantage as a salesperson is that I'm competitive.
Yeah. That's the only thing. Everything else, like, oh, I gotta learn this. Gotta learn this is, like is and it's pattern recognition.
Angel: Right? Which obviously bolt on.
Steve: Yeah. But you have this, obviously. Right? Pattern recognition.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Hey, that works. That works. That works. Okay. What do we do this way?
Right? Especially if you could take it, like, one industry to another. That's one of the Yeah. Skills. Like, it's not it's not a recognized skill, but, like, hey, like, this worked over here.
Can we do it over here? Yeah. It's not a natural thing because typically what we do is, like, hey, like, who else is having success in this industry? Yeah. Let's copy that.
Right? But the ability to go over here and bring it back to here.
Angel: Well, your superpower is, like, having that engineer in mind. Right? Right. So you can bring anything and and kinda, like, find a a way where other people would have a tough time doing. And I think having the experience in different businesses Mhmm.
Is oftentimes a superpower. Right? Because especially when you have a moving and a changing business Mhmm. There's new like, the model changes. All of a sudden, one piece of the of the business is now, like, evolving Mhmm.
And it's starting to become more like this industry. Mhmm. So if someone that already has experience in this, and all of a sudden they start excelling like crazy Right. Right? Because they they kind of just married the two.
You I like, what I think is fascinating is just how the way that you've broken down sales and literally, like, put it into such a a a spoon fed system. Mhmm.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And we're putting all that into the Yeah. Yeah. So it'll be fun.
It'll be really interesting. This adventure is gonna be crazy. The queues. Yeah. Yeah.
So then but going back to this, like so when I started sharing about it because I'm talking talking about my my journey, he was saying, like, man, like, I have my VA company, and there's never been a red or ocean. Right? And he's like, it's even more brutal than wholesaling.
Angel: Yeah. Well, it it is. But but here's the thing. The way that I look at it is that it's it's the back end it's the backbone to a bunch of other things. So the the nice thing about VA the way that I see it is, like, it's, it's talent sourcing.
Mhmm. So you if you have enough of an, of a small, insignificant cost, like, entry level position in your company, you're able to start creating and finding talent for other positions within your businesses
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: Or business. Right? Mhmm. So that's really where I've seen the biggest benefit because it's if it was only for just the the call center itself, it wouldn't be worthwhile. Mhmm.
But where I've really seen is like, hey. I need someone to do this, or I need someone to create this. And then it's like, it it you you have a nice workforce. You have an army of people that now, they all are looking for new career opportunities, and they have skills. Like, some of the guys that I've gotten, like, one of them is an attorney, One of them is, you know, like, like, they they do creative stuff.
Some of them are coders. Right? Like, it's like, oh, they have a bunch of different skills. Mhmm. We they just still happen to have this job because it's consistent, and there's opportunity, and that's what that country is known for.
So
Steve: the biggest benefit, and not hidden necessarily, but, like, an unfair advantage you you just I think it's the word you said. An unfair advantage that people don't know about is that it makes it easier to run operations, your businesses, because you have this pipeline of talent.
Angel: Yes. And they're like, when you look at these VA companies Mhmm. You're only like, most people get, like, too focused in on only making phone calls. There's also, like, you know, just regular VA staffing, like, when you need a virtual assistant. Mhmm.
Right? And that that market is massive. Right. Much bigger than, I think, calling.
Steve: Gotcha. And then going back to what we're saying just a moment ago, what concerns do you have about with AI coming along?
Angel: I think that there's opportunity that's, the big question so most most of the time when people are asking that question, they're at least when we're talking about call centers, they're afraid that they're talking about the fear of, like, hey. You know, if AI callers are coming out, I mean, does that pretty much wipe out the the VA calling? Well, AI calling is classified as robo dialing. Mhmm. So, the I'm not concerned with it because I know that it's classified as robo dialing.
So if, if that does happen, then that means that, you know, the industry is probably gonna, you know, flop as a whole, or at least that entire, like, niche. Yeah. It doesn't scare me. I I think it excites me more than anything. Because I think with AI, there's so many different verticals Mhmm.
With AI. Right? So, like, analyzing calls, reports, efficiencies, improving hiring processes, generating content, right, scripts. All that stuff can be like, you're able to reduce your staff and then be more productive with AI. So I don't know.
I I I'm really, really excited.
Steve: Yeah. Because, we had, Pace Morbius on here about a month ago. Yeah. And we we had our conversation because he's got a VA company. Right?
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I talked to him about it.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And we're like, man, who knows what's gonna happen? It's the, the comment I made in that show, I still stand by it, is, like, if you could short a country, I would short The Philippines. Like, it sucks, but, like, a lot of those people are gonna get replaced.
Not all of them. Yeah. But a good amount of them, all the mundane stuff. I mean, like, you know, you see these things now. Even, like, having someone monitor your email, like, AI's taking care of that.
Right? Right now, we're doing the call review. Like, we're pretty close. Like, in the next couple weeks, we're gonna, like, release a dialer. Right?
Like, it's just more and more things are coming along. Yeah. I mean, I just also wanna post something today about, like, you know, ChatGPT five and, like, what it's gonna do. It's like
Angel: It's insane. I mean, like, right now so ChatGPT also has, like, the, like, one of their specific agent. I forget what what it's called. I'm pretty I'm blanking on the name, but you can have it jump on your computer and then start handling all the tasks for you. Like, actually, like, pull up a browser Mhmm.
And then start running whatever you want it to do. And then you use ChatGPT's brain to tell it what to do. Yeah. And then if it makes a mistake, you can go in and then show it how to correct the mistake. Yeah.
And then it'll it'll says, oh, my bad. Let me go ahead and now fix this problem.
Steve: Yeah. It's gonna be, really interesting. Ultimately, revenge of the nerds. Like, is this revenge of the nerds?
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what? It's interesting because, like, there it's definitely Revenge of the Nerds.
Right? Because you have the the guys that are resourceful. Mhmm. Right? Because it's not always just nerds.
Like, I on on all reality, I actually think it's probably even less nerds and more resourcefulness. Whoever has that skill of being really, really resourceful now becomes a person that's gonna thrive. Because being resourceful is being able to find ways to make things happen, being able to find the resources that you need to do x, y, and z. So I would disagree slightly.
Steve: I would say the guys are the most inventive. What's that? Inventive. Yeah. Right?
The guys can come up with ideas. Yeah. Right? The ones that are most creative. Yeah.
Like, you know, like, with this project that you and I are working on, like, we take, you know, we take the working genius. Have you taken it? Uh-uh. You should take it. It's awesome.
So on it, like, it says, like, my two superpowers on that according to the working genius.
Angel: It's an it's an assessment like a Yeah.
Steve: So working genius, w I d g e t, right, widget, is wondering, invention, discernment, and galvanizing, enablement, and tenacity. So w is like, you know, you wonder, hey, how how come is this? Why is sky blue? Right? You know?
All these questions. Inventing is, like, solutions oriented. Hey. What did we do this? What did we do that?
Discerning it, like, that's a good idea. That's a bad idea. Galvanizing is, like, rallying the troops because they're excited. Enablement is, like, how can I help you do this? Right?
Whatever you need, I'll help you do it. And tenacity is, like, actually doing it. It's really important. Right? A guy takes care a lot of the tea.
He takes care a lot of the tea. And so, where I'll say, like, you know, we have a competitive advantage is that Ian is an IG, so he's an inventor. And I'm an ID, so I'm also an inventor. And according to Working Genius and so, like, we can, like, come up with crazy things, and have AI just do it. Yeah.
So, like, I would say it's not just a resourcefulness. It's like, I have an idea, and AI will do the work. Yeah. That's kinda the world we're in right now.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. But and so I think we're saying the same thing, but in different ways.
Because I so what what I what I meant by resourcefulness is, like, you're you're able to now create, like, different solutions. So, like, because I I feel like when when it comes to certain ideas, man, I I just I so many people have good ideas. Right? Mhmm. But it's people like yourself that actually will take the time to go in and now figure out how to actually do it.
Yeah. Right? Mhmm. But, you know, everybody I don't know. I I you see so many people that have, like, just the idea portion of it.
Mhmm. ChatGPT, if they're resourceful Mhmm. Will now give you the whole game plan and literally tell you how to plug it in where information was sometimes a little bit harder to get or it took a lot more time. Now it's just like you get it all in one minute.
Steve: Yeah. It's crazy.
Angel: So you you do you use, like, the deep research on chat GBT?
Steve: I use Grok, which recently had a crazy moment. I use Grok. And I'll use deep research deep research every once in a while
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: In thinking. But for the most part, I just like, here's what I want. Go do it.
Angel: So here's, here's a cool little trick that I that I learned, actually from, from a developer. Right? Because we have our software company, and I talked to this guy that's, you know, he's built, like, billion dollar companies like, Calendly and stuff like that. And he taught me how to use the like, a little bit of the different models. So he said, look.
The first thing that you're gonna do is whatever you have something that you wanna, like, get more informed on, go to deep research. Go to deep research, put in the topic or the idea and everything like that, and it's gonna learn everything. And you don't have to read the entire report.
Steve: I know. It's nuts.
Angel: And then you can do, the, the mini high Mhmm. Which is the one that now, like, has a lot of thinking, power.
Steve: Okay.
Angel: And then you put that one to create.
Steve: Okay.
Angel: And then you use once it now is putting into create mode, then you can start using the basic model to now start putting things into steps and then just start getting things done faster now. Yeah. So, idea to creation.
Steve: It's not Yeah. Yeah. It's like cause now, like, I'm brainstorming. Like, this weekend, I was brainstorming with Grog. Yeah.
Here's some here's some ideas. Help me clarify it. Yeah. It's like, man. Yeah.
Alright. And the the best thing about it is it asks me questions because, like, I can see how everything's gonna be awesome. I can't see all the pitfalls.
Angel: Yeah. You don't know what you don't know.
Steve: Yeah. It's it resolves a lot of the pain that I would experience later on by highlighting here are things you're not thinking about. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty crazy.
Yeah. Okay. So you got that, and then you decided to start a software company.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: What prompted desire to start a software company?
Angel: I'm filming this video for the man himself, mister Ian Rock. So Guy Crouch is the guy's the best person in sales I've ever seen. I've invested elsewhere, and I haven't got the and I haven't got the same results. I've gone from being a seller, making 5 k a month, to being a hybrid role, making 11 k a month, to now be four months down the line from 5 k to on a closing opportunity, inbound, full calendar with the best opportunity, the best offer in my space. OTE is around 20 k a month from month two.
So I've gone from 5 k to 20 k. If that's not a return on your investment, I don't know what it is, man. If you're a salesperson, you don't invest in sales training, you're gonna get left behind because your job is to be better at sales, and sales training directly makes you more money.
Speaker 3: If you like what you just heard and would like similar types of success, text close to 33777, and we'll see if you qualify to join objection proof selling. We're taking good sales reps, and we're making them objection proof.
Angel: So, same thing happened, problems. I started seeing problems. So the reason I started the call center was because I was running into two issues with theft and this and that. Right? Mhmm.
And then optimization. Well, I started seeing, like, the writing on the wall that connectivity with, our calls was starting to go down because I was, you know, with more call callers Mhmm. And more hotel markers, like, you start seeing everything at scale. Right? So You see trends faster.
You see trends a lot faster. Right? Because, you know, nine 80% of everything that you see in your per in in production when you're a small business is usually just you. Mhmm. Right?
Like, it's just, you know, your Your data. Yeah. Yeah. It's your data. Like, it's really just more what's going on with your day.
Like, was I in
Steve: a good mood that day?
Angel: Was I in a bad mood that day? Was I on point with my sales skills that day, or was I not? But when you start doing things with, with more volume, you'll see trends very, very clearly. Mhmm. So the trend was all of our process, all of our systems, all of our scripting, everything's exactly the same dialed in all the way across, and we have a nice clean average.
One thing that kept changing was the connectivity of our calls. And it's because Verizon, AT and T, and all these guys got really creative with how to block calls, right, like like traffic. So that way, they can reduce noise on people's phone.
Steve: Yeah.
Angel: So I'm either gonna have to find a marketing channel or go out of business. Mhmm. So I started, trying to figure out on how I can solve that problem. Because if I can, you know, boost that and I'm when I'm seeing these numbers drop off a cliff, especially because it's also right when, interest rates shot up. Oh.
So, like, I'm losing margin there. My I'm losing margin because buyers are paying less. Right? Sellers still want more, so I'm being squeezed on that side. Mhmm.
My team is also asking me for bigger commissions because they're not doing as many deals because of the issue.
Steve: Of course, naturally.
Angel: Yeah. So it's just kinda like from all different angles. My flips are flopping. And then I'm seeing my lead generation also start to come down because you got stir shaken and and carriers doing their thing. So I go on a mission, and now my mission is, like, alright.
Well, I got to optimize, and I looked at all the different KPIs. This KPI is the the the reddest one. Right? This is the darkest and the one that needed the most attention. So I started looking for developers and telecom experts and so on to start figuring out how to solve the problem.
Yeah. Over time, I started, like, developing little tiny things and putting little systems in place to where I'm this close to having my own dialer. I asked my my developer, like, what's it gonna take to actually, like, create my own dialer at this point? He's like, you know, like, you're right there. So that's that's basically the birth of the dialer.
Steve: Mhmm. But basically, because all these things you're doing to not bootstrap, but, like, modify the other dialer you're working with, you had to do this and this and this and this. So you do all these things Yeah. Were all the things you were doing?
Angel: So cleaning caller IDs Mhmm. Right? Because you have to figure out how to register them. Right? You have to find and source good caller IDs.
Mhmm. And then the the, like, routing for how you handle routing, how you're managing certain things like, like drop rates, and then and then how you're able to identify when you're having lack of connectivity because of data versus, like, the the carriers didn't accept the phone call showing up as spam. Right? What what causes it to show up for spam, and then creating a system to make sure that I'm working around that. So I had to, like, get really creative with different systems Mhmm.
And processes to make sure that our stuff was showing up clean. And then the only thing that at some point I started, I was missing was basically just the actual execution of the of the connecting of the call. Mhmm. And then that's when, basically, the birth of the dialer happened. And it happened, like, in couple different variations.
But, essentially, software just started just to fix my own business. Yeah. It's not
Steve: a problem,
Angel: so I'm
Steve: gonna start a company.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Well, no. No. It wasn't even that.
I didn't wanna start the company. I would do so so what happened was the second that I figured it out, just so you know, like, I had a 40 callers and I had gone down to 15 because it was just bloody. It was just I'm just getting hammered and and the calls just weren't connecting. Right? And that's my business.
So it a couple variations of that happening is getting a little bit better. It's getting a little bit better. And then all of a sudden, it's just like, yo. Mhmm. We got the blue magic.
Like, all of a sudden that happened. And I go from 15 callers, and they scaled up to a 100 callers within four months. Wow. But that's just for my own, business. Right?
Like, this is, like, not even as a Well, now
Steve: you have a big competitive advantage.
Angel: Yeah. That's that's exactly what it was.
Steve: You're getting more contacts and conversations per hour.
Angel: Exactly. So what happened was I have my, my connectivity is now through the roof, and I got a secret weapon. And all my friends know about it, like Vic and and Art and, my my mastermind and stuff. Mhmm. But it's my secret.
Like, I'm not telling nobody about this. I'm like, dude, I'm about to take over the whole, like, industry like this. Right? And then a couple of my buddies start convincing me, and they're saying, hey. You know what?
Let me like, can I can I do a bot? Can I try it? And then they're they're raving about it. And then, I'm like, yeah. It's it's the best, isn't it?
And they're like, dude, you should be selling it. I'm like, hell no. Mhmm. I'm not gonna be selling this thing. This is our secret weapon.
Right? Like, you're on it. Like, let's just let's just take over. I have a buddy of mine that, I'm talking to, and he, calls me up and and says, hey. I heard about what you got.
Like, can you mind just throwing me on there? Like and he's a he's a close friend. So I put him on, and then he calls me back like, dude, this thing is insane. You have to start selling this thing. Same thing.
I'm like, no. This is my secret weapon.
Steve: Yeah.
Angel: He goes, no. No. No. You don't understand. I have another buddy that started this other company that's, that's an email company.
They're running the same thing, deliverability. And I'm like, so what? And I'm like, yeah. You can make some money there. It's like and I'm thinking, you know, small money.
Right? No. He's like, no. No. No.
He just got an offer from realtor.com to sell this company for a 100,000,000. So I'm like, what? A 100,000,000? So I hang up the phone and I call my developer, and I'm like, yo. We're gonna get this thing started right now.
And then that's when the and that our Wow. Actually came about.
Steve: What was the you're saying, like, this is one thing that that that worth. Can you share what was, like, that one thing you figured out that made the biggest difference?
Angel: So what I found out was that carriers, they work kind of like in it's kind of think of it kind of like credit ratings. Mhmm. That's the best way to look at it. Yeah. So you have different credit ratings with different, carrier paths, with different caller IDs, and and so on and, like, and dial like, the way that you're dialing.
So you're always rated just like just like, like with your credit. Right?
Steve: Like, they all do for a thumbprint of some kind, and they're tracking the print. Exactly.
Angel: Yeah. So everything that you do when you're dialing creates that credit rating. Mhmm. Right? So you're either gonna be highly rated
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: Low rating. Right?
Steve: Yeah.
Angel: So what I found out is that a lot of these dialing systems or at least, like, the carriers and so on, they're rating them very low for obvious reasons. Right? So how do you start with a high rating, and then how do you maintain a high rating? That was the the the key point. So it's very easy to lose connectivity when you're rated low.
Very easy to massively double your production Mhmm. When you're at high rating and now you're competing with someone. Like, if you make a call with Verizon Mhmm. And I make a call with my my dialer, we're both gonna actually get the call connected. You ever, like, make a phone call and all of a sudden, like, your call just doesn't go through or a call drops?
You're like, yeah. What happened? You you don't really think much of it? Well, that happens all the time and 10 times more when you have low rated calls. So you you when I call, like, phone calls traffic, it's literally like traffic.
Right? Like, there's there's only so much, like, infrastructure and bandwidth that it can handle. So if you have too many calls trying to go in that's like whenever you're at concert or something like that, like, not all the calls start going through. Connectivity gets really bad. It's just overloaded.
Well, the same thing's happening all the time everywhere. So what happens is that the the the phone companies, they have to get creative about how how they let traffic through. And do you think that they're gonna let your junk traffic through, or do you think that they're gonna let, like, a a friend to a friend phone call Mhmm. Or like a cell phone call, right, or a Verizon to Verizon? So, obviously, they they they they use the high rated calls, and they allow those through.
And then the lower rated calls, they don't allow through because of how much traffic they have and how much, weight they have on this on on their Yeah. On their networks. So, anyways, that's that was the big uh-huh. So then the entire race became, okay. Cool.
So how do I maximize it and keep that really high rating at all times?
Steve: And how are you building a moat to make sure that no one else can catch you on that?
Angel: So the nice thing is is that it's very, like, complex, in the sense that they're always changing because it's dynamic. Like, the the the carriers, like Verizon, AT and T, and T Mobile, they don't tell you, hey. This is how you can get around our stuff.
Steve: Right.
Angel: So, you know, it's like anything else. Any anybody can do anything. It's just how creative are they? How Mhmm. How do you how do you get through?
Right? Like, how do you implement? Right? Mhmm. So, you know, just staying dynamic.
There there's always gonna be changes in someone. You just gotta do your best to stay ahead of it. Well, I
Steve: can tell you about your excitement. You love to solve challenging problems.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Right? Because, like, when I when, like, shaking and stirred, not even when they got enacted Yeah. When it got passed, I was, like, alright. We're done with texting.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: And that was in 2019.
Angel: Yeah. I remember that.
Steve: I left a lot of money on the table. Yeah. I was, like, okay. They passed that. Like, I don't wanna play this game anymore.
I don't wanna play this cash and like, this this cat and mouse and this and that. Right? You can't you gotta say the words in this order. You gotta tokenize. You gotta do this and that.
Like, all this mess. Like, ah, screw it. You have left a lot of money on the table. But you are like, okay. Well, how can we not only stay ahead of it, but stay so far ahead to create such a competitive advantage that no one can even keep up.
Angel: Yeah. Well, so here's the the interesting part. A lot of the different, like, dialing systems, they actually like, a lot of them know to some extent how to get through, but the problem is that it's too expensive to do. Mhmm. Right?
So that that also becomes a big piece of it because it also becomes an expense thing. You know, we're as an operator, I don't like, I know how important it is to be able to get $20,000 sales. So I'm more concerned with doing that Mhmm. Than, like, having a massive profit, like, software pipe profits, that are more typical in software companies. Mhmm.
So I I just need all the calls to be able to connect. So that's that becomes the priority is because I'm I'm ultimately, it's still a it's ultimately, it's still a tool that's based around maximum connectivity.
Steve: Yeah. So that there's other pieces to it too. So it makes sense for your business to spend extra money to make sure the call gets through.
Angel: Well, to every business. Right? So it makes sense to every single business that that all calls connect. But I I feel the pain. Mhmm.
So it it makes it easy to
Steve: You feel it. I guess that's what I'm saying. Because, like, even, like, let's say I'm selling t shirts. Yeah. Like, I'm not gonna spend extra money.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: I'm actually gonna call and get through it. And I'm selling, trying to think of, like, other low margin businesses. But, like, like, if I'm using a dialer and I'm selling, you know, I guess where I'll where I'll go with this. Wholesaling one of the best benefits of wholesaling is the the margins are huge. When the money comes in, it's great.
Angel: Right? When it rains, it pours.
Steve: Yeah. But not most businesses have high margin. Right? You look at grocery stores. Right?
Like, 3% margin. You know? Like, I don't even know how that I can't even fathom working a 3% margin business. Right? Yeah.
Angel: It seems weird.
Steve: Like a hundred eighty day pay day pay day cash conversion cycle.
Angel: Excess prices go up and you're out.
Steve: Yeah. Right? Or you look at restaurants, you look at like most, you know, like Victor, he says, like, you know, he was in a freaking automotive business. Banana business. Banana business.
Right? Like, that is not high margin business. Right?
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Like, if your call doesn't get through, like, you're not gonna spend the extra money Yeah. To make it go through. So, like, having a business where connectivity matters is worth spending extra money to get through. But after you figure that problem out, then all your wholesale buddies also are willing to pay for that product because they know it works. They can't afford not to use your service.
Yeah. That's nice too.
Angel: It's it's basically it's just like you it's it's a the difference is is, like, when you have when you're able to feel the pain and then you're able to run it as an operator. Mhmm. So, like, as an operator, you know what you actually need. You know what the business actually needs versus, like, what, maybe someone behind the scenes that's more just software Mhmm. More of a software company or a geek.
Right? That just kinda created something that they thought someone else would need. Right? Which they can get maybe 70% of the way there. Mhmm.
But that like, I need I have a very specific use case. I just need these calls to connect, and I need to make sure that I can get, you know, people on the phone to sell some contracts. Like, you build everything around that. So I think that's what what what makes it unique.
Steve: You know, we have, like, this really resonates with me because right now, you know, what we're doing with our software, right, with with the AI tool like, what I've said to other people is a competitive advantage. And this might be crazy. I might just be, you know, insane. Right? But what I said is a competitive advantage is, like, I know exactly what I need as a business owner for this AI tool to do.
Yeah. And I'm the developer. Most times, you've gotta deal with the developer, and there's this constant back and forth. Here's what I want, and then they'll do it. And you have your meetings like, no.
That's not what I wanted. Like, make these changes. Right? So, like, the iteration process going back and forth, it's not a leakage in time. Or I can just go in there.
I can just make exactly what I want. Boom. That's it. Ship it. Let's sell it.
Let's get going. Yeah. Right? And then we have Ian behind the scenes able to, like, you know, work with the bot and the brain and all of this stuff. But, like, we know exactly what we want because we're the ones that in they're doing it.
Yeah. They're in it. So it's exciting. And, yeah, like, if you were just selling the phone services, right, I was like, hey. Look.
I know these wholesalers are, like, wanting this fixed. We got three of the clients right now. Like, tell them it'll be, like, three weeks, then we'll get it fixed. Can't wait three weeks. Yeah.
Right? You need this problem fixed now. Yeah. So I can definitely appreciate that. So, Enzo Dialer.
So so if someone wants to find out more about the Enzo Dialer, how do they go about finding that?
Angel: Go on the website. Go on the website, book a call, discover a call with the team, and then they'll go over and see if it's a good fit. You know, there there is there is times where it's not a good fit. Alright. You know, if you obviously, if you're in the same stuff, same businesses that I'm in, like, wholesale and solar, it's literally built for that.
Alright? Real estate and solar. Right? But there is different use cases. Like, if you go super, super niche and you only wanna connect, like, you know, you have a list of, like, 15 people Mhmm.
Probably not gonna be the best thing to use a super powered dialer. Yeah. But, yeah. That's that's where you can get some information. Where's the website?
Enzodialer.com.
Steve: There you go. Yeah. Enzodialer.com.
Angel: Okay. Www.enzodialer.com.
Steve: There you go.
Angel: Be specific.
Steve: Alright. And so the promise of the show because we want to tell you your journey, which is, like, pretty crazy. Right? We're talking about, like, you're you're you're making millions a year working part time and remotely. And we just talked about I think it was five five businesses now going on the same thing.
You got the brokerage, wholesaling, solar, call center, software.
Angel: Mhmm. Alright.
Steve: So five companies running at the same time, part time, remotely. Explain how this all works.
Angel: Yeah. Well, I can't work full time in all of them. So the I'm I'm working remotely because I started, basically living in Colombia, half the year. So I'm doing one month in, one month out. Mhmm.
That happened for a couple different reasons. Number one is because that was originally the goal with why I got into, like, the wholesale space. I wanna be able to have that freedom to be able to, like, kind of pull away from, like, being the neighborhood expert Mhmm. Right as a realtor. Like, I I didn't I didn't like that.
So that was that's how that happened. Right? Like, I I started going in the direction. So I started building my businesses for that. And then at some point, I I built it to where everything's kind of, like, has the ability to be remote.
Mhmm. And then I was still just living in LA, and then I finally, you know, had a a moment where it clicked with, when I was talking to my dad and my brother because, my dad was saying, like, dude, I think I'm ready to retire and go move out to, you know, Florida or to, like, Colombia or to Mexico or something like that. And I'm like, yeah. Well, I would have been doing it a while ago if it was if if you if you'd be down to go. He's like, well, I've been I I just don't wanna leave you guys.
And then my brother's like, I'm just here because of you two. So then we all realized, like, wait. We're all just here just, you know, just because, but we all actually wanna be over there. Mhmm. So anyways, that's how it happened.
So, literally, my entire family is doing this all together. My parents, my brothers, my sisters. Are you all there? One month in, one month out. My sister's actually a little bit less because they're they had to finish up school and stuff, but, you know, on the vacation times.
Steve: Are you in Colombia more for tax reasons?
Angel: No. Not for tax reasons. More for
Steve: I'm guessing I'm asking, like, are are you still paying California taxes?
Angel: I I am still paying California taxes. Yeah.
Steve: You're very generous of me.
Angel: Yeah. Well, it's it's I haven't been there for too long, so that'll change soon.
Steve: I would. Yeah. Yeah.
Angel: That'll that'll change pretty soon. Yeah. I have to have residency. I still need to keep residency in The United States. So I just need to be in a maybe not California.
But the thing is that I travel a lot to California, so I have to, like, find a different place to travel.
Steve: Yeah. Because I got a I have a buddy here, a buddy in LA who moved back here, and he's here intentionally for six months and a day.
Angel: Yeah. Six months and a day. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Just in that pay California taxes and all of it.
Angel: Yeah. So that that's, again, where it gets, like, really, really, tricky. Mhmm. It it's California is a place that I love to hate. Mhmm.
I I hate it, and I love it. Like, right now in the summertime, it's really fun. You know, it's like it's an awesome place to be. Yeah. But most of the time, you know, because of politics, because of everything else going on, because of the high cost of everything, it's always it's not it's not the most attractive place to be either.
Steve: Yeah. Well, maybe the cost will go down, the way things are going.
Angel: I don't think in California they will. Like, California is crazy.
Steve: So let's talk about then what operations looks like. Right? So you got five companies. Are you the CEO in all five companies?
Angel: Mhmm.
Steve: You're the CEO. Who's running operations? Is there, like, one person who runs operations for all five, or are you as a there's a
Angel: I have operations for every business. I I've realized that that's, like, the key piece. So the the first key hire that that's come into place that just made everything possible and easy is literally the operations person. Mhmm. You need that type of mind to be able to now implement.
Right? So, like, you can it's you you need someone that can think of the idea and then and then solve the big problems, but then you need someone else that can also implement and then also kind of take care of, like, some of the smaller problems. Yeah. That's what the operation person does.
Steve: So then how did you figure out the right operations person
Angel: for each of the businesses? Good question. They kind of all fell into place. Like, it like, the the the key thing is that most of these decisions, like, to start these different things, none of them were forced.
Steve: Mhmm.
Angel: Every single one of them just kind of, like, fell into place because, like, I I like, I'll think of it ahead of time, but it's not like I'm like, oh, I'm I'm gonna go over and build this this this company. I'm usually just trying to solve a problem Mhmm. Where I'm also where I have my my eyes out. I'm like, hey. Like like, right now, like, I'm looking at hard money lending.
Mhmm. Or, like, hard money lending is another really good business to now get into because with cash, you need to, like, I don't I don't I don't like managing rental properties, but I I still want the high return that comes from it. So, like, I know that that's something in my mind, and it's like, you know, every time I hear anything hard money related, I'm putting down all my notes. Mhmm. So now I'm looking for the right person to help me implement that.
Right. And it'll happen at some point. Same with the other ones. Like, it just kind of falls into place at some point when when you have your eyes open for it.
Steve: Yeah. How did you know you had the right operations person for the software company?
Angel: So I got him from my from my other business, from the VA company. Mhmm. So he he's incredible. Like, he he just came in and then murdered it. So he came in by referral.
He was running, a 2,000 person company, and he was working on a small position in my in my VA company. Mhmm. Not a small, but he was kinda like part time, like, almost, like, a independent contractor Mhmm. Like, solving different little problems, and he was really, really good. Yeah.
So when I started the dialer, that one that one, I didn't start with an operation manager beforehand. That one, I I got more hands on, to get started because I it it literally was a source of a lot of business that I was doing, so it was important enough. But when I knew it's like, alright. It's time for me to get this person in place. I knew that he was gonna be he was gonna have a big place somewhere else and something else that I'm doing.
Mhmm. I interviewed a bunch of different people, put a bunch of ads down, and then I interviewed him. And then literally when I looked at, like, alright. When I check off all the boxes, he was still the best fit, and he was trusting Mhmm. Because he'd already proven his worth.
Steve: Right. Well, boxes was the checking. Like like, what do you have a checklist in place for hiring?
Angel: So a lot of it, like, I use, like, predictive index to help me out. I use disc assessments as well. What I look for typically, like, when someone with operations is I I do like, like, attention to detail. So it's kind of, like, a little bit unique. I like attention to detail, but I also like that they are able to implement.
So there, like, there has to be some so a good amount of d in there.
Steve: Yeah.
Angel: So those are two big things I look for. I also will usually create, like, a, like, problem solving things. So let's say, for example, if I know that there's a certain task that's gonna be needed, like, with Excel sheets and so on, I'll have them do it, but I have I have to watch them do it. I have to see how they think and how they solve that problem. Because if not, then they'll go to chat g b t and then just kinda paste it in, but they don't know how to, like, think for themselves.
Mhmm. So I like to see how they think and how they handle certain problems to see if they're gonna be able to problem solve without me involved. Interesting.
Steve: Yeah. Haven't heard that one before. How will you know you got the right person for the hard money lending company?
Angel: Experience with lending, is one of, like, the one of the biggest ones. Mhmm. And then, like, attention to detail because they're dealing with money. Yeah. So those are gonna be the two biggest factors right off the bat.
I I don't know enough details because I'm not, like, I'm not ready to to open that one up, but I know that those are the two big ones.
Steve: Yeah. What are the meeting cadences you have right now with each of the five operations managers?
Angel: So we do a joint, meeting with all of my operations managers because what I found is that everybody was building the same system, but slightly different in different, sections. So I'll pull everybody together, and then we group and then have, like, a mastermind internally Mhmm. With different, like, different topics and, like, what's what's going good and what's not going good. And then they all support each other. They're like, oh, so you can actually do this.
We've already got this built out on this side. We've already got this built out on this side. Because these guys will start building out their own systems and tools within the business that are Right. That that I don't have to be attached to. But the thing is is that they've already built something that this this side desperately needs.
Yeah. So that that that really, goes really well. So that that's the biggest meeting. Mhmm. The rest of the meetings is, like, we'll do l 10 meetings as well.
Not with all of them, but with, a couple of business. Like, the call center super required because there's always moving parts that are going on with that. Yeah. With the with the dialer, that one, I'm still a little bit more hands on with because there's there's it's still a newer business. And then there's also, like, it it's growing fast.
Mhmm. So we have when you're when you're growing faster, there's a lot of movement, it requires a little bit more meetings. Yeah. When it's a little bit more stable, it's it's a lot less. Now it's just creative like, a little bit more creative to to grow.
Yeah. Got it. Not a big fan of fast growth, by the way.
Steve: So I had done this. Did not end well. It didn't say end poorly, but it did not end well. Right? So, like, I had, you know, like, the brokerage, wholesale company, title company, joint venture and mortgages, podcasting, and then education business.
I had all those things going on at the same time. And individually, independently, they all did well. Very rarely were all of them doing well at the same time.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. It's isn't it a unicorn month when it does, though?
Steve: Oh, man. Like, those few months where all the companies are doing well, I was like, wow. Insane. Right? It's amazing.
But there was always drama and issues with each one of them. Right? Like, the mortgages, I mean, that one just took a big l once interest rates jumped. I was like, okay. Maybe we don't need to spend that much time on it.
Yeah. The title company town insurance company, there
Speaker: are a lot
Steve: of egos to keep happy because your clients are realtors. Right? And so, like, this person isn't happy about this. This person isn't happy about that. Right?
So it became kinda like, well, like, the drama the dollars per drama was no longer, like, working out. And then the the the real estate commissioner comes in and she's like, hey. Like, you know, like, we don't think realtors should have title companies. Whereas, like, okay. Like, I want nothing to do with real estate commissioner.
Let's just shut that thing down.
Angel: Dramatic in every angle. That's what I'm saying. There's so many problems that come from that business. Such so one of the things that one of my mentors taught me, he's actually here in, in Arizona. Yeah.
He's he was super impactful in the most recent years. Brett Tanner. Yeah. So Brett, he he told me, he's like, one of the things that you have to look out for, one of the biggest things you gotta look out for is noise. Mhmm.
So what is the noisiest business? Right? Like, you can make a lot of money from it, but if it's a noisy business Right. It's you know, it may not be worth it. And then the retail side to me is very, very noisy, so that's why I was very okay with, like, shutting down my team as well.
Mhmm. Because number
Steve: one had that as as well at one point.
Angel: Yeah. Well, I had that, but I I got cannibalized. Right? Yeah. And then but the brokerage side, that one's very, very noisy.
The the I I would never recommend anybody, like, to start a brokerage. Same. It's kinda like, you know, it was already there. So it's kinda like, well, you know, you don't wanna let it go waste either. And then the the nice thing is is that there's other other people involved in that in that ownership as well.
So I I kind of it's almost more of like I almost I got brought into that, so I wouldn't I would never start it from the very beginning. No. Ever. No. Ever.
The noise to money ratio is way off.
Steve: Yeah. And that's what I was saying. Like, you know, like, the dollars were drawn. Like, it's it's Yeah. It's not working.
Noisy. Yeah. So
Angel: So constantly screaming from all ends.
Steve: Yeah. So then alright. So I was gonna ask you, how do you deal with it? So you focus on noise? Yeah.
If it's noisy, then you're like, okay, like, should we continue doing it? Is that the filter?
Angel: Yeah. So noisy is not something that I enjoy. And then, I I kind of, like, you know, when you look at it like a VA company, like that one still seems to be a little bit noisy. But, again, I have a really, really good operator there. She's she she she's likely gonna be CEO Mhmm.
Real soon, because she she already handles a lot of that noise, regardless. Mhmm. But noise is definitely at the top of the list of what I'm looking at across the board because it it it can get really messy.
Steve: Yeah. And I don't mind the ego and the drama. I really didn't until Steve has to fix it. Yeah. And when I have to fix it, and then it's like, I don't know if this is worth my time.
Angel: Well, yes. So that's a that's a big, problem with it. For me, it's more of, like, it the the ratio to dollars, like you're saying. Mhmm. Right?
Like, I don't mind fixing problems if I'm getting paid well for it. Mhmm. Right? Like, there's big problems that you can solve where that there's a lot of money in there.
Steve: But it makes you dollars. Okay. I'll I'll deal with it.
Angel: Yeah. But that doesn't seem to be the case with the No. Brokerage and realtor world.
Steve: No. That was definitely not the case. So and then, obviously, all on the way, you had to study sales. Right? Probably I mean, no.
It started with actually LA Fitness or Bally's. Yeah.
Angel: We started with Bally's. Yeah.
Steve: Right. And LA Fitness and Mike Ferry. But, like, there's a lot of sales on the way. Like, you studied a lot. Like, what are all the things you studied in sales?
Angel: As in what sense? Like, the people that I learned from or, like, the processes, techniques? Books.
Steve: Like, what are the things that you've loved most about? Like, or where where has your passion shown up in in in the development?
Angel: For me, what I love is that selling doesn't have to sound like selling. You can like, one of the big things that I've I realized because there's different styles that you see when people are selling. Right? So I'm extremely aggressive. Mhmm.
But I don't sound aggressive. Yeah. Right? Like, and I like that. Right?
That was, that was something I learned because when I first jumped into it, I was like, oh, I'm gonna be aggressive. And then, you know, like, Mike freezes. Call your mom and, you know, say this is a business call. Like, that's that's like a that's really aggressive. Right?
Yeah. And it also sounds aggressive. Mhmm. So the first thing for me was like, okay. Well, how can I my my activities and my input can be very aggressive?
That doesn't mean that my tone needs to be aggressive. Right. So how do I maintain that? So that was one of the first skills that I wanted to, like, really learn. Mhmm.
And that came from, I think, just watching and then recognizing patterns. That one, I it it was it didn't come necessarily from a book. That was from pattern recognition. Mhmm. But most of the the stuff that I learned was Mike Ferry.
Tom Hopkins also had a different style that was a little bit different. He kinda takes, like, a a longer course to get to the to the sale. And then, you you know, later on, I started reading more books. I would say 70% was probably, like, directly from Mike Ferry, though, because I was very deep, like, into the cult. Mhmm.
Like, it's a straight up cult. Yeah.
Steve: And I never got to really go on the inside. Like I said, like, Brent Daniels. Right? Like, he was. He was drinking that Kool Aid.
Angel: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Alright. That's the reason why TTP exists.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Alright. Talk to people is the wholesale version of Mike Ferry.
Angel: I yeah. It's a it's a very specific style. Mhmm. I think Brent does it, like, in a friendlier way, though. Because they
Steve: He's definitely friendly. Much friendlier.
Angel: Yeah. He
Steve: does. I mean, everyone's friendlier.
Angel: Yeah. Michael spit on the ground. Like, he's, Yeah. He's aggressive.
Steve: He'll fight you.
Angel: Oh, yeah. Yeah. He'll fight. Yeah. And he'll he he he will say the some crazy stuff too.
And he's ruthless. Like, he's completely like, his style of selling is ruthless. Yeah. If his son is his competitor, which he is Mhmm. His son is no longer invited to the dinner table.
And that's his son. You know what I mean? Like, that's how intense he is.
Steve: Invited to the dinner table?
Angel: He is now. Like, they they they for a while, I know that there was, like, a lot of, like, you know, issues there.
Steve: Yeah. And so, like, I never like I said, I never dived too deep in the world. I went through that training quite, like, one bit. And I I do remember one time, I got feedback. Because I was showing houses and the guy didn't wanna buy it.
And I was like, okay, I just gone through this Mike Ferry stuff. Let me try some of it. And then I got fired by that client. Right? And it was a referral, like, it was a referral from my broker.
And so, fired me. And then I was like, well, like, why? Like, because he he wouldn't talk to me. Right? He was ghosting me.
He's like, oh, Steve came across as too pushy. I was, like, trying those lines I learned from fairy.
Angel: Yeah. So here's here's something I learned. Right? And and you you know this. Right?
You're you're
Steve: Yeah. Now.
Angel: Yeah. Then. It's not always so some of it is the words. Mhmm. But a lot of it is also the delivery of the words.
Right. Right? So the delivery is, you know, 80% of it, and I I think.
Steve: Oh, or 90. So but imagine you take an engineer. Yeah. Well, you You've given Mike Ferry skills.
Angel: Yeah. Well, I was I was saying, like, the the stuff that you put in. So, like, I if you and Mike Ferry made a baby, it would be crazy. Like, that that that would be a sales ninja. The reason is because Mike has, like, good scripts, but you don't know why it's in there.
Mhmm. You explain really well why this is in there and why you go through each piece of
Steve: it Mhmm.
Angel: To create a framework to follow so that it follows the path to a signature. Yeah. He just says, just do this exactly like this and you'll get to a signature.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
Angel: And don't deviate. But there's there's a lot of nuances and variables in there that that he he doesn't do a good job of explaining in my opinion. You know, I think he's great, but I think that's what's missing. So that's what I was saying. Like, where you've done really, really well is that that I've I've literally never seen anybody explain the the lines of why you use them and why you pause and why, like, what's going on in the psychological end Mhmm.
Better than you have.
Steve: Yeah. I appreciate that. And, I'll say the one thing I do quote, Ferry, in my training, is that a signed agreement is a natural conclusion to what we're on appointment. Like, that is the one thing that I'll call all the time. Like, if you're not getting a signed agreement at the end, you messed up somewhere along the way.
Yeah. Right? There's something you didn't listen, you didn't hear them. You spoke when you shouldn't have been speaking. Yeah.
Something happened because they wanted to they wanted to work with you. Yeah. Who invites a stranger into their home?
Angel: Yeah. The the the way that I've always looked at it, especially with listener positions, is that if you what by the time if you show up to the house, at that point, they should already be sold with working with you. They you're literally already just walking in for a contract because the sale is really made before you actually showed up.
Steve: Exactly. Yeah.
Angel: It takes vacations.
Steve: They already agreed. Again, like, you don't meet with strangers for no reason. Yeah. Right? It's like they they invited you into their home.
Mhmm. There's something you did that caused you to walk out without a signed agreement. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, yeah, I mean, that's it's incredible.
You've gone through a lot. You've done a lot. And, again, like, running multiple companies and, like, you're young. Like, how how old are you?
Angel: 32.
Steve: 32. I do all these things. By age of 32, it's remarkable. Running five companies in parallel. It was pretty crazy.
So they're they're so they're parallel, but also keep
Angel: in mind, like, they're they're connected. Right? Like, they're they're all kind of, like,
Steve: I hear you.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Because I was doing the same thing.
Angel: Right?
Steve: Like, again, like, realtor, broker, wholesaler, flipper, title, mortgages. Right? And then teaching it. Right? Like, those are other things.
Right? Because when I started coaching, I didn't keep coach sales. I coached wholesaling. Yeah. Eventually, it became coaching sales.
Yeah. Right? It's, like, I did all those things, and they're all in the same assembly line. Yeah. But they're different enough Yeah.
For customer. So, like, I I I guess what I'm saying here is, like, give yourself more credit because you deserve it. Right?
Angel: Thank you. Yeah.
Steve: Because, like, you're running five companies. Yeah. You can say it, like, yeah, they're the same thing. They all serve each other. But it's still like, most people can't run one company.
Yeah. Right? You're running five. So, like, you accept it. Like like, you're doing something awesome.
Angel: I so I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I I I I have good, like, relationships. Mhmm. Right?
Like, my like, the guy that runs my, my wholesale, business. Right? I I partnered up with, one of my my good buddies, Kelly. Mhmm. He is a monster.
Like, he's great. Like, he's he he he makes it very easy to run a wholesale business Right. As a CEO because he does what he's supposed to do. Mhmm. He implements.
Right. So I think that's, like, the key piece of it. So I'd rather give the credit to them.
Steve: Well, definitely, they deserve credit.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Right? Because they they're doing the work day to day. They're in the grind, and they're putting out most of the fires. Right? Like, they're dealing with most of the job.
They're talking about the noise. They're dealing with most of the noise before it gets
Angel: to you.
Steve: So they absolutely deserve credit. But you also start to be a leader, right, to, a, recognize talent, b, attract that talent, and, c, keep that talent. Like, those are things like, you might be good at one of them or two of them, but if you get to all three, takes a lot of personal development, leadership, humility, the growth mindset, extreme ownership, like, all those things.
Angel: Dude, I'm gonna start blushing real. Thank you. You can't do that.
Steve: I can say that. Right? On the like, because I've gone through this journey. Right? Yeah.
Angel: And
Steve: I'm quite a bit older. It's that, the I've, made a lot of bad decisions. Right? Brought in the wrong people, attracted good people, burned them out because I was not the leader I needed to be. Right?
So, like, I recognize, like, you're doing something awesome.
Angel: Yeah. I appreciate it. It it it I don't I don't know. It just happens a little bit over time, but there's definitely a lot of personal development, like, tons of personal development.
Steve: Yeah. What is a so you mentioned you got a mentor here. Like, what are some of the biggest things, biggest programs, lessons, mentors, coaches, whatever that helped you along the way?
Angel: Well, I I you know, I can't, not give credit to Carlos and Sal too. They were they were awesome too. Yeah. I I went to Rafael Vargas's event. That was the first one that kind of, like, just opened my eyes into the business.
Mhmm. I got a little bit more hands on with the training and stuff with, Carlos and Sal. I got sales training from Mike Ferry. I got mindset training from Tony Robbins. I got more business training from, from Brett Tanner Mhmm.
And wealth coaching. And then, there's various other, like, little coaching programs that happen along the way too. Like, Sean Terry, obviously, I've tuned into a lot of your stuff as well, which, by the way, your show, like, your show is exactly what it's advertised to do, which is to create millionaires and stuff like that because it's definitely made me a ton of money Yeah. Just from all the different guests that you had because you basically kinda create mentorship within the show. Yeah.
So thank you for that. You're welcome. Yeah. So those are all influences. But your but your show, can't be discredited on, like not not discredited, but, like, I it's it's not a small piece of it.
It's a pretty substantial piece of, like, the the learning on this. So I'm glad that you do it because there's so many little nuggets that you grab from all different ends of the business. And then, like, you can watch a lot of the same episodes. Right? Because I've I've watched a few of the same ones over and over again, Mhmm.
Because I know that there there there's answers in there that you you miss because you just weren't dealing with that problem yet. Yeah.
Steve: I don't recognize it yet. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I appreciate you saying that. I mean, I basically created this show something that I wish I had Yeah.
Right? When I was younger. Like, we had we didn't have this. Didn't have, we had audiobooks. Yeah.
Actually, we had CDs.
Angel: How much of your business is now, the show? What do you mean? Like, because you like, it's like, you're so you have the other businesses that you have. Mhmm. How does how does the show play into those?
Steve: It's a good question. Because there have been times I've I've asked myself, should I keep the show going?
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. I remember you mentioned that when, when we talked over the phone.
Steve: Yeah. Alright. There's there's times where I go through that because, like, it's not a big part of the business. Right? So, the biggest part of the business right now, is attending masterminds.
It's really where, like, the revenue comes from. Right? Like, going to Collective Genius, going to the boardroom, going to Family Mastermind, because we have happy clients. Right? Like, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find it.
Like, a client's like, man, Steve's overrated.
Angel: But you're talking about for the sales, portion of things? Are you talking about for
Steve: my business. Yeah. So, like, the podcast, like, this thing doesn't make me money. Yeah. Right?
It's But it
Angel: it, like, it it I think it also creates opportunities. Right? Like, because of the like, how how big the show's gotten over the years.
Steve: Created a lot of opportunity. No. Like, the first seven years, like, it's because we're seven years into this now. Like, it it opened a lot of doors, created a lot of opportunity. Right?
Like, I wouldn't you know, like, we just did this episode with Jesse Burrell. Like, I wouldn't have done I would not have spoken on the main stage at Wheel of 19 with Max Maxwell. Right? Like, this Phoenix crew that we all built together, we rose together. You know?
We wouldn't not to say that not to take any credit from them, but, like, we all rose together. Right? Like, you know, we were, we're whole scaling together. So, like, a lot of stuff we've done together. So, like, this show changed my life and changed my business.
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I'm saying right now, the return on effort Yeah. Is not the same Yeah.
As it was, like, the first year, second year, third year. I'm at a point now where, like, this is a passion project. I do it because it's fulfilling. Yeah. It's not a moneymaker.
Angel: Yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully, you don't stop doing it anytime soon because, I think it's still helping out a ton of people. Like, I I I talked to and it's starting to, like, spread more into the real estate space, like realtors. Mhmm.
Because when I first jumped on to it, I would mention the show to people. Oh, they all this is like like they got really good content and haven't heard of it before. Mhmm. Now, you know, I'll talk to different realtors. You know, in the wholesale space, I think it's very common.
I think everybody knows the show. Yeah. But in in the realtor side, it was very uncommon. Now it seems like you're just hearing it, like, oh, yeah, Steve Trang. Oh, yeah.
The the real estate disruptors. I'm like,
Steve: alright. We're doing it. Yeah. We're doing it. Yeah.
It's it's nuts. Like, we kinda had this dip. And And I challenged the media team on this, and they've stepped up to the challenge. Yeah. Like, you guys need to get organic content more effective and reaching more people.
Yeah. And they've done that. Like Yeah. Our views have more than doubled on Instagram. Our every episode we've done, for the last four months, I think, if not every episode this year I think every episode this year, if it's not there, it's pretty close.
I said at least a thousand views. Pace right. Pace is this whole whole other deal. Right? It's like 26,000 views.
Yeah. Right? But, like, every episode this year is, like, I think, by now, has hit a thousand views. Yeah. The media team stepped up.
Angel: Well, you you you get the snowball effect that happens too. Right? Because you've been doing good content for long enough to where, like, it it starts to spread.
Steve: Well, right. But, like, we dipped. Right? Because, like
Angel: Oh, did you?
Steve: Oh, yeah. Like, we were huge in '18, '19, and '20. Right? Like, what changed for us negatively, with COVID was that everyone was on StreamYard. Everyone was streaming.
Right? Because everyone's at home.
Angel: Mhmm.
Steve: And so, like, our, visibility took a dip for a few years.
Angel: Mhmm.
Steve: But I don't know. Maybe it's a blessing that everyone else is hurting, so we're still creating content. And so, like, yeah, we're, yeah, we're doing great again. We're get we're we're getting reach. We're reaching more people, different people.
It's awesome.
Angel: Well, here's the thing that I'll tell you. So you're saying you were saying that you wanted to marry originally a realtor and wholesaler? Mhmm. I think your show is Forged. Yeah.
It's actually doing it now. Yeah. Right? Like, it probably took some time because it took traction, but I'm telling you, I've I've heard it more now than ever. Right?
Obviously, that happens, but, like, not like a little bit. Like, a lot more That's awesome. Where realtors mention the show, and say, oh, yeah. I'm trying to do a wholesale deal. I've been watching, you know, this, that.
And then now you're marrying the two. And now they're not like, ugh, wholesaling. Right? Now it's kind of like, man, I wanna do some of that. Yeah.
Right? So I think, I think the mission is getting is being accomplished.
Steve: Well, I appreciate you sharing that with me. Yeah. It means a lot. Yeah. Oh, I'm
Angel: trying to get you to keep doing it. Yeah.
Steve: Last question here is what do you wanna be remembered for? On the show?
Angel: Are you talking about, like, in life? Or
Steve: Your journey, man.
Angel: Dang. I didn't I wasn't prepared for that deep of a question. Yeah. Be remembered for. I would like to be remembered for impact.
Right? Like, that guy was able to make a difference in my life. So that starts, really close first with, like, my family. Mhmm. And then to my close friends.
And then, hopefully, if I do enough of a good job on this planet, then maybe it might spread to strangers as well. Yeah. But for sure, I would definitely wanna control the impact that I'm able to to create for my family, both in the energy, the enthusiasm, the the like, helping, bring more life to them to into their world, in different ways. It's not always money. It's not always just like, hey, look what, you know, Andrew accomplished, but it's more of, like, what he was able to actually do for me, like, for my brother and, like I look at literally every single person in my family as almost like a job.
Like, that's where my real mission lies. Like, how do I Yeah. Like, create or build or do something that can create enough of an impact for their world.
Steve: Yeah. I love that. How can someone get a hold of you again? Or connect with you?
Angel: Yeah. Angel@EnzoDialer.com. And I was about to get my cell phone, but I don't know if that's a good idea.
Steve: Hey. So he's his own.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Pace still has his number out there. He's he's an insane person. I like people who share their phone numbers, and they ask me to clip it.
Angel: Yeah.
Steve: Last thoughts I wanna leave all the listeners with.
Angel: Simplicity scales, complexity fails. Yeah. Find different ways to make more things simple in your business. Yeah. And then and then just, like, when I say complexity, it feels like I've seen it multiple different times, especially, like, where like, you'll have people that say, hey, man.
I wanna do, like, this or I wanna do what you're doing here and this and that. And then they in in their mind, it's way more complex than it actually is. Mhmm. And then I think that's what, like, stunts growth. 100%.
Yeah. And then once you especially if it starts like, if if you get a little bit of traction, you think that it's be like, you give credit to, like, the complexity in it. It's probably just because you you you you still made it to the finish line on that complexity. But what happens is when some variable comes in, all of a sudden, your entire system falls apart, and you're not able to adapt quick enough. Mhmm.
So simplicity.
Steve: And your business chokes because of complexity. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
Angel: Dude, thank you.
Steve: Appreciate it. Thank you guys for watching. We'll see you guys next time.
Angel: Shout out to Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
