Jorie Aulston Shares How He Buys Properties at 0% Interest and No Money Out of Pocket

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. So we got Jory Alston with the Alston Group, and he flew in from Miami to share how he buys houses with no money down and zero interest and also to defend his city's honor.

Jorie Aulston: Jamil, we're coming for you. If

Steve: this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Train, broker and owner of Studying Homes Realty, founder of the OfferFast Homes app, the only only MLS you'll need for off market wholesale properties. And I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires. So if you're interested in that, let's connect on Instagram. If you're excited for today's show, please give me a wave. Give me a thumbs up.

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Jorie: I'm ready, man. That's gonna

Steve: be great. Alright. Alright. So what got you into real estate?

Jorie: Oh, man. 2005. I'm living in Miami. Of course and I I say this. Everybody says this, but I actually did read Rich Dad Poor Dad and changed my mindset.

Right? So that was that was basically one factor was I read that book. And from the day I read that book, my mindset has been changed completely in the way I looked at, you know, money and life and everything in general. But that was one factor. Another factor was, my dad, my biological dad, who I've only actually seen once in my whole life

Steve: Oh.

Jorie: Was doing mortgages and condo conversions in DC. And we've had these spurts where it's like we talk a lot over the phone. Like, we don't really talk that much. We'll have spurts this time we do. But during that little stretch then, we were talking like all the time.

Mhmm. He's telling me about real estate. He's telling me, you know, you gotta get in real estate. You gotta look into this, look into that. And so I think, like, not even knowing it, I wanted to, like, you know, get into it and, like, prove I could I could outdo him in real estate, you know.

So so without even knowing, I just started digging deep, deep, deep into that, reading every book I could about real estate, rare rich dad poor dad.

Steve: How long ago was this?

Jorie: This was in o five. 2005. The same year I met my wife. I got married on '5. Right?

Mhmm. She got pregnant. So we have a baby coming. So I was like, I better do something quickly, you know, to take care of my wife. My daughter coming, puts the two kids that, you know, she already have from previous marriage.

So it was like, either get, you know, get it right now, do it or, you know, end up end up stuck. So Yeah. The book, Necessity, and I was trying to prove, you know, to my balance with that. Look. I can do this better.

You can. It's pretty much, I think, how I got into it.

Steve: Okay. So what was the first thing you you did when you got into real estate?

Jorie: I got I got my license. So I got my real estate license in o seven. I wanted to get my license because I I didn't want to be a realtor. I wanted to be an investor from the beginning. Right?

So my whole goal was to get my license, find REO properties off mark, you know, from brokers. Right? Get my hands on them first, you know, buy them, fix them up, flip them. This was like o five, o six, o seven. Yeah.

You know, everything on TV was like it is now. Everybody's flipping their house, you know, it looks so easy. You know, I can do this. Right? So I got my license.

Well, but, rewind. We actually bought a house first. Me and my wife bought a house. We bought a foreclosure that needed work. So our our goal was to buy this house, you know, rehab this house.

She's pregnant. So we're gonna buy this house. No. I'm at home. She's working at this at this time.

I'm not working at all. I'm, reading every book I can. I'm learning real estate. We buy this house. You know, she's working, but I know she has to start working soon because she's pregnant.

Our goal was to rehab this house, you know, fix it up, then refinance it, pull out 25, 30,000, and then take that to go buy, you know, more homes to fix and flip. Yeah.

Steve: So

Jorie: that was the goal. So, you know, we were rehabbing the house pretty much by herself, me and pregnant wife. Her cousins are helping out, you know, doing some electrical stuff. You know, we had a guy that came into some carpentry work, but that was pretty much, you know, our first first first deal. My wife actually had to had to leave her job midway between fixing this house up because of the pregnancy.

She was a high risk because of high blood pressure. Oh. So she actually had to come home. So we get the house done. We're trying to refinance it.

And the bank says we can't refinance it because your wife, she doesn't have a job anymore. Right? So we go from, you know, we're about to get this house fixed, you know, the house is fixed up. We're gonna refinance to take that money out because I don't have my license yet. I'm gonna take my test soon.

You know, you know how it is. You get your license. It takes you, you know, a while to get A

Steve: few weeks or two, a couple months. Yeah.

Jorie: Well, I was in a brand new town, so I knew nobody.

Steve: Okay.

Jorie: So, I mean, I didn't know anyone in this town. So for me getting to my first deal, I think it's a project a few months, you know. So we get this whole thing with, you know, well, we're not gonna refinance the house. So what what do we do? You know, we start praying.

You know, we're praying. We're praying. We get a call, like, two days later, the bank says, you know, we we looked at it. We see she was working. This is just the time off.

You didn't get fired. Mhmm. We'll do refinance.

Steve: Okay.

Jorie: Right? So lot less than what we had thought we were gonna get, but it was enough to hold hold us over until I got my first deal and, as a realtor.

Steve: Gotcha.

Jorie: Right? So that's how I got into it.

Steve: So you got licensed in 2007?

Jorie: I got licensed in o seven at, like, the the heat of the bubble, you know, thinking about to be this big fix and flipper guy. I'm about to go, you know, buy these homes from the banks. Right? Because when I got my license, I went to a brokerage that specialize in REO properties, which is like real estate owned foreclosures. Right?

So I went to this broker, his name is Mike Bocides, and I went to him, he just started a brokerage. But I was reading the paper looking for deals all the time, and he had the most deals. He had the most REO listings. So I go to him, and he has a brand new brokerage, like two agents, and he tells me no way. I'm not taking you on.

I want no liability. I don't want any new agents. You know, I'm good. I want my three or four agents. I'm a bill that way.

And so I go home, like, crap. You know, he he just he just turned me down. He said, no. My wife's like, go go back to him tomorrow. She's like, you've been reading books.

You know what you're you're doing, you know, you don't need him to teach you, you teach yourself. Because one thing I do is I teach myself, you know, by reading or studying. I'm a very good self, you know, self learner. So I go back to him a few days later, you know, tell him I'm not leaving until let's work for his brokerage. And I end up being able to work for him Yeah.

At his brokerage. And so what happens is I end up becoming his buyer's agent after like about a month because his his main buyer's agent had a baby Mhmm. And had to had to quit working. So I'm in it now as I'm his buyer's agent and and, like, the number one REO brokerage in West Michigan at the height of, you know, the housing bubble. So

Steve: West Michigan. So you weren't in Florida yet?

Jorie: No. No. I'm in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Steve: Okay. No. Alright. So then, at which point did you start wholesaling? Or do you I mean, do you wholesale

Jorie: wholesale? I wholesale. Yeah. I I do wholesale. I didn't start wholesale until probably, like, 2015.

Steve: Okay.

Jorie: Right? And I was in Michigan. I I only moved to Miami in 2016. So I was in Michigan from o seven to 2016.

Steve: Gotcha.

Jorie: Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So then when did you start?

Jorie: Transition to wholesaling. Mhmm. I transitioned to wholesaling by necessity. I was an REO buyer's agent. I was moving, like, probably a 100 homes a year.

Right? From, like, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011. The the market crashed, but investors had a ton of money still. Right? They had a ton of money.

In the beginning, they crashed. There were still lines of credit you get. You could still get, you know, loans. And that was for, like, the first four years, like, 2008 to, like, 2011. So during that time, you know, my broker has the most are you all these things out there?

Right? And I'm a go getter. I get up in the morning. I'm on the MLS all day long. I'm tying up the homes in the MLS.

I I basically was wholesale. I don't even know when I was doing it. I would time with the MLS before I even had a buyer. Mhmm. But I knew what my buyers wanted.

Right? So I tie them up because you had you had to then. I mean, it was a lot of competition going for these deals. So you had to go on the MLS, basically send the offer over before you even saw it off the pictures, know what the numbers are.

Steve: Absolutely.

Jorie: Right? Then go look at it and, you know, do what you have to do after that. So I'm doing this for, you know, three, four years and killing it. And I'm just killing it. Then the market, like, slowed down to, like, nothing was moving at all.

Right? Yeah. There was nothing moving because no one could get money. Guys who had lines of credit, the lines of credit got called from the banks. Mhmm.

You couldn't get them more. Like the credit market freeze. It was frozen. Right? So for like a year or two, like, I couldn't do anything.

I was selling like three, four homes maybe, you know, a quarter. It was like, it was rough. Right. We actually moved to Hawaii for six months. My wife my wife took a travel job.

She was a surgical technician. She took a travel job in Hawaii for five months Mhmm. Just to give me a break. She's like, I could tell you're stressed out, you know, nothing's happening right now. Let's just go to Hawaii.

So that was actually an amazing time for me

Steve: to be in Hawaii. Sounds like an

Jorie: amazing time. You know, when I got back from Hawaii, the market started picking up a little bit, but you couldn't really find like, you could find something in MLS. But when when buyers started coming back into the market, the most of you in West Michigan was hedge funds. So local guys, we'd make an offer on the property, let's say for $30. It would get bid up to about $50,000 and a hedge fund would come in with that offer and no one could compete with the hedge fund.

Steve: No one could.

Jorie: And we're thinking, you know, why are they buying this house for $50 when nothing's moving? You know, that's like $20 over the price. Well, hedge funds came in, they buy it up, they rent them out, then they do what they do, they sell them off. That's a real game. They drove the market by themselves, you know, basically.

The local guys couldn't compete with that. Right? So because of that, I started looking for houses off market. It was necessity. I couldn't find anything on the market anymore.

Right? So by necessity, I had to I had to find stuff off market and I ended up becoming a wholesaler Yeah. Or wholesaling houses.

Steve: Okay. So as you made the transition, how did you find these off market properties?

Jorie: At first, it was more like word-of-mouth. You know? I wasn't even doing any marketing. It was more like, you know, I know this investor has some deals. I'm gonna go approach this investor and say, hey.

You have anything you wanna sell? Alright. I had a buyer. I knew an investor, so I would just kinda go out there and look for them. Also because, you know, I was selling so many homes to investors, you know, when the MLS was blowing up.

I had a lot of investors who just come to me and say, hey, Jory, I have a deal. If you have a buyer for it, you know Mhmm. Add on your price to it and, you know, here's the price. So a lot of it was just basically word-of-mouth.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: I got into like wholesaling wholesaling actually from an investor from Phoenix, Arizona. Dude, I did a lot of stuff for guys from Phoenix. Mhmm. A lot of stuff. This investor came to Grand Rapids and he was wholesaling out here.

And he wanted to wholesale in Grand Rapids because he knew the market. So the way it happened was he kinda partnered. He was doing all the all the marketing. Well, I worked for him at first. He was doing all the marketing, and I was telling me all the appointments.

I basically was the acquisition manager because that's already what I was doing anyway as a realtor. And I couldn't find enough deals in MLS or off market, you know, for my investors. So when he came in, it was okay. This this fits perfectly. You're gonna market.

All I have to do is go lock the deal up and then sell it to my buyers. Right? That's that that makes complete sense. So that's how I started. I started off like that.

He was marketing. I was just going closing the deals, the appointments, and selling them basically my buyers already have.

Steve: Is he still in business? Not there.

Jorie: Okay. I don't know. I haven't talked to him. I haven't talked to him about a year. Okay.

We actually ended up, you know, parting ways, and then I started my own operation and

Steve: Gotcha.

Jorie: He still lives in Arizona. So

Steve: So then when did you start doing the no money, you know, seller carry?

Jorie: I got into that. I've been blessed that a lot of my investors, are big time guys you will never know about. They're not on social media, you know, they they were young guys. I mean, my one of my investors was like 23. I'm like 27.

This guy has like a 100 homes, you know. Yeah. He's moving tons of homes.

Steve: So 23 year old with a 100 homes.

Jorie: 23, 24 years old. Yeah. Moving. Yeah. Like a lot of homes.

Yeah. These are guys who were buying homes since they were like 17, 18 years old. You know, it's like their dad bought homes. They taught them how to buy homes. Mhmm.

You know, I never saw that. Like when I got into real estate, you know, I got into it from reading, but no one ever told me, you know, go buy a house, rent it out. I mean, where I come from, I mean, you don't see that, you know. Right. Everybody's rent they're a renter.

They don't teach you at a school. Mhmm. I'm meeting guys, like, this is what they've been doing, you know, since they were teenagers.

Steve: Pretty much as someone they were walking.

Jorie: Yeah. And they have a vast wealth of knowledge. Right? So when the market is is very when the market goes down, right, seller financing becomes very very big because no one could get financing. Mhmm.

Right? So seller financing became huge. And so in Mission, we do a lot of land contracts, which is basically, you know, seller financing, but you don't get the deed until after you pay it off.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: So a way for me to find deals was that I started working for a lot of guys who were like, hey, I know I can't flip this house for cash because there's no money for that, but I can sell to someone only in contract. Mhmm. If you bring me a land contract buyer, I'll pay you, you know, $1,500 to $2,500. Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Jorie: So basically, I was their agent doing this for them, doing all these deals. I learned the in and outs of how to structure the deal, you know, how to market the deal, how to negotiate the deal, the terms and all that from being a broker on those deals. Right? So about the year 2016, I just started doing it myself. You know?

I was doing a lot of it with them, and I would just start doing it myself too.

Steve: So you're in Florida now. So are you still doing it in Michigan or you're doing it Florida?

Jorie: I'm in Florida now. I virtual wholesale in Michigan and Pennsylvania Mhmm. And parts of Florida and Indiana.

Steve: Okay.

Jorie: So, yeah, I'm still doing I don't do I don't do any deals in Miami. Like, I live in Miami, but honestly, I have 99.9% of all my deals are not in Florida. Florida. Okay. So then

Steve: where is the Alston Group?

Jorie: It's a brokerage in Florida.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. So how does that work?

Jorie: The Alston Group was my real estate brokerage in Florida. Mhmm. I I do a few deals as far as like being a broker. Right? Because I am a licensed broker.

I'm licensed in Florida and I'm licensed in Michigan. Mhmm. So I do have, like, I have an agent who does deals in the West, like St. Pete, Clearwater, Tampa area that I broker for. You know, I do some stuff for another agent in Miami.

Right? So that's what the Allstate does mostly. It's that's just my brokerage. My wholesaling is actually a different company.

Steve: Yeah. It's

Jorie: a totally different company.

Steve: So why even have a brokerage?

Jorie: I like well, I like to be having a broker because I still can get commissions if I want to. Right? Mhmm. When I go to a wholesale deal, I can either wholesale the deal. I can have someone listed deal for me, get a referral.

Steve: Mhmm. Right?

Jorie: In any any state of America because I'm licensed, I can get a referral.

Steve: Right.

Jorie: Right? I can have agents work underneath me who wholesale deals and get and get a commission or a marketing fee from that. Mhmm. And I still have a few agents who do deals on, like, the the broker side that are underneath my brokerage.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Right? So I have the brokers because I I wanna have the brokers too. I don't want everyone license up, you know. Who knows what's gonna happen? I I believe the realtor is disappearing.

Right? Mhmm. The the standard way that we that we worked it is disappearing. If you work for a big brokerage, right, that whole model to me is not gonna last.

Steve: Well, there's some I mean, there was major announcement in me this past week.

Jorie: I've been on the airplane for five days. I don't know. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Is that,

Jorie: Keller Williams?

Steve: No. No. No. Realty is partnering up with Amazon.

Jorie: So For the iBuyer program. Yeah.

Steve: Well, not for iBuyer, but it's just it's just interesting what's going on. You know, all these different moves that feels like panicking versus

Jorie: Yeah.

Steve: Being proactive. But whatever.

Jorie: I mean, I think we're fine. I mean, if if you're if you're a realtor or broker who wholesales, you'll be fine. You're already going direct to the seller. Right?

Steve: Absolutely.

Jorie: That's that's the future. The future is direct to seller. The future is they're trying to cut out buyer's commissions being paid by the seller already. Right? Because when you think about it, I mean, I I like that.

I've been a buyer's agent my whole life, you know, so I appreciate it. But it also got to a point when I was selling a lot of these deals, the only way I got that deal was by giving a listing agent both sides. So I've been asking my buyers to pay my commission for years. Yeah. Right?

Because if you find a good deal, the investors, you know, all they care about is the price. Right?

Steve: Well, that's what's great about wholesaling. It's, it's just like commercial real estate. You get what you can get.

Jorie: Exactly. That's it. Yeah. There's no, like, 6% or 5%. There's no, like, industry, you know, industry trend or industry norm.

Yeah. Right? Whatever you get, you get.

Steve: Yeah. Whatever you can command.

Jorie: And when you're a realtor who deals with investors, which is what I did, the only investors, it's almost the same thing. Right? I had investors come to me and say, hey, I'll pay you $5 if you bring me that deal first.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Because they knew I had all the deals and they and they were buying it from other investors who got them for me. So I was already I was basically wholesaling without even knowing it. You know? Right. So you learn when you have a deal, you can charge whatever the numbers make sense.

Steve: So let's walk through this. How do you talk to a homeowner about no money, zero interest. What's that conversation

Jorie: with a homeowner? I wholesale. Right? All everything every house that I buy or I wholesale, whatever, starts with my wholesale marketing. Right?

So I'm I'm marketing the same way as any other wholesaler. I do a lot of direct mail, up north. I I don't do any direct mail in Florida. It just doesn't work there. Right?

Marketing is market determined.

Steve: Yeah. Very market specific.

Jorie: The market determines it. Right? Yep. Michigan, PA, my direct mail works amazing. Like it does.

Florida, not as much. And when when I do do it, it's to a very, very niche list, you know? Yeah. So, you know, let's say I do a direct mail campaign, get a phone call back, and the seller calls me. My first thought on every deal is I'm only gonna deal with, like, three different ways.

I'm a wholesale it. I'm gonna buy it and keep it. Right? And if I buy and keep it, it's usually gonna be with seller financing terms. I haven't gone to a bank for a loan and, you know, I use private money, but it's gonna usually be seller financing terms.

Mhmm. Or I'm gonna buy it to either wholesale it or very very rarely fix and flip. I hate fix and flips like that.

Steve: I understand. I'm the same way.

Jorie: You know, but if the numbers are crazy and saying, we'll do it that way. Mhmm. So let's say a seller comes to me and, you know, when I have my guy look at the house, because again, I'm in I'm in Miami. So I'm not even looking at the house or anything. I do wanna negotiate over the phone, but I never go to a house.

My guy will go to the house, take pictures, come back. I'll see the pictures, you know, what kind of see what kind of pricing, you know, I think it's worth. I'll call the seller back. Right? When I call that seller back, I'm gonna always offer them a cash offer and a seller financing offer.

Steve: Alright. So let's take a step back. So your your marketing, a lot of it is direct mail.

Jorie: I'm doing direct mail, text message, RVMs.

Steve: But they're they're contacting you.

Jorie: They call

Steve: You you set the appointment or you you do the call and then you you don't negotiate any or you do negotiate on the phone.

Jorie: So my initial call, if if I if I answer the phone, it's my call or if I call them back. My initial call, I'm doing the investigation. I'm trying to find out everything I can about that person, right, in the house. Mostly the person. Mhmm.

When you when you do that call with the seller, I've I've been on class with my wife. I wish she was here. She's been on calls. It's been an hour long call where they tell me everything going on in your life. But I just listen.

You know, the key about a call is listen. Right? So when that call comes in, I'm trying to figure out their motivation. And then before the call is over, a price. Right?

What what do they want? You know? Yep. Because I have a I'm allowed for market. I'm not gonna send someone to a house usually if I know they're crazy crazy off a number that makes sense for me.

Right? So that's what I'm doing on the first call.

Steve: So you get the price and then you send someone out?

Jorie: Then I send someone out to the house to take pictures. They don't do any negotiation. They're just out there to take pictures, look at the house, you know, get as many pictures as they can, you know, of all the main you know, everything in the house that we need. Because if we get out on contract, we market the house by those pictures or those videos.

Steve: Right. Okay. So then you call them back?

Jorie: Then I call them back.

Steve: Okay. And then let's walk through that how that process works.

Jorie: So let's say I call you know, Steve called. We went to his house. I said, hey, Steve. How you doing? This is Jory, and I know my associate just went to your house.

I I got the pictures. You know, we kinda went over the repairs that may or may not need. You know? I'm pretty interested in the in the house. You know?

I just wanna give you a call and kinda see, you know, where we're at on price and see if it makes sense for us. Right? And then they'll probably say, hey. You know? Well, I'm at $50.

You know? And I be like, you know, $50 doesn't work for me. I'm more like, you know, I can probably give you $25.30 cash right now. And I see the reaction. Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Jorie: I know cash that cash number works for a wholesale do all the while.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Right? So I'm trying to figure out if they if they would take if they if they do that, right, then we're good. Let's say they say, no. It doesn't work. You know, I'll do 40.

Well, 40 is tight. It's tight for a wholesale deal. Mhmm. So let's say I check the wholesale box out. Right?

My next thing is, okay. I'll give you I'll give you $40,000 cash. Right? Have you ever thought about sort of financing? You know what?

Like, you're an investor. Most most of the sellers I do this with are are landlords who are tired of having tenants. Mhmm. Right? And that's what they're telling me.

I'm sick of having tenant. They don't say they're sick of having residual income per month. They're tired of a tenant. Right? They like they like those checks per month if they could get them Mhmm.

Without the hassle of a tenant. So what I do is say, you know, we're gonna show you a way you can make, you know, a monthly amount per month without having to be a landlord. You know, I'll pay all the insurance, the taxes. I'll pay any repairs, any expenses, all of that. Right?

But you'll still get a monthly payment. You just want to do with Tennessee Moore. And usually, like, oh, I like that. You know? Tell me how you do it.

Mhmm. So then I'll give them a number. Right? I won't say anything about interest rate or anything. I'll just say, hey, I'll pay you this amount per month.

You know, how's that sound? And if the number sounds good to them, right? Then we'll get into negotiations, the contract and send the contract over. But I'm giving them a number that I know over a certain amount of time is 0% interest at that price. Right?

I never mentioned interest rate or anything. And so when they accept that number, basically, it works out to me buying this house, right, With 0% interest. And it's usually about 10% down that goes into the house. Right? But I'm not paying interest on the property.

Steve: Yeah. Is what I'm doing. So you just break it out over let's say it's 40,000 and they want over what?

Jorie: Ten years? Twenty years? 40,000? Yeah. I mean, let's say 40,000 over like ten years.

I divide that by a 120 payments

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: And get the price. Right. Right. And it makes sense to them because that number usually is more than they make as a landlord. Mhmm.

Right? Because when they get their their rent minus all the expenses and insurance and all and those fees, they usually make less than what I'm offering them. Right? So that's where they're like, oh, wow. This this makes sense.

We'll do this. You know? Yeah. I'm just my best list is non owner occupant, high equity, you know, landlords. Right?

Usually and I actually have a list that's, you know, empty nester list they talk about. Yep. I do empty nester, non owner occupant. These people bought a home like thirty years ago and they've never sold a house.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: So these are these are older landlords, right, who are probably retiring who can't handle tenants anymore. Right? But they still like that check per month.

Steve: Are you finding that this is helpful in certain price points?

Jorie: I think the price point matters more for me because when I so the second part of how I buy it with no money down, which we'll get to is, I wrap and sell that house to another investor or another homeowner. Right? So it's the price point I target for that investor is what makes sense. Right? Usually, I'm looking at like, up north.

I mean, I'm trying to sell those houses to them for $50.60 grand with five, six thousand down to my other investor.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Right? Because that's that's the sweet spot where you put 5,000 down. Most people have that to put down the house if they're trying to do this. Mhmm. Then our monthly payment is at a point too where you can still cash flow for them.

Like a $100, they're gonna cash flow a lot, but they'll still be able to make break even on turning the house into a rental. Yeah. So that's the number I'm looking for. More for my end investor. You know?

Steve: So your number is based purely off what you can move it for.

Jorie: Definitely.

Steve: Gotcha.

Jorie: Yep. Yep. And then, I mean, if you want me to get into the second part of how I'm doing that, putting money down. So we'll do an example deal right now. I have a deal that we got for $20.

So we got it for $20, 10% down which is $2. That's $18,000. And we're doing over about four years. I think our payments like $3.50 a month. Don't that's just the estimate.

Yeah. I then what I do then is I go find an investor who wants to buy a house on seller financing. Right? A rental property. So that same as our property I'm selling for $40,000 with $4 down Mhmm.

At 10% interest over ten years. Right? So I'm getting $4 for that investor. That was my $2 for the down payment that I'm buying it for, plus I made $2. Mhmm.

Right? And then they're making payments to me for a certain amount of time and a certain rate. And for the first three or four years, I'm probably cash flowing a $100. Yeah. If that, but when the house is paid off, I have six years of cash flow and I'm into the house for no money down.

So you're

Steve: talking about when the house is paid off between you and the homeowner?

Jorie: Me and the homeowner. They still have six years left to pay me. Yeah. So that six years is all cash it's it's all profit. Right?

The principal interest payments are profit because I owe nothing nothing to the seller I bought it from besides my taxes and insurance.

Steve: So it's looking really good in a few years.

Jorie: Yeah. And that I mean, that's my goal right now. A lot of these are, like, you know, I got them for two, three years that I have to pay the seller. Right? So I mean, I might be breaking even, you know, but in two years when paid off or I'll probably pay off more, I'll take $4 from this and put it down to that one.

You know, in two years when they're offering you clear and in all my, you know, raps, they're called raps and doing a rap. I'm selling a seller financing somebody else. Those are all positive cash flow.

Steve: So let's just explain real quick for the listeners what a wrap is.

Jorie: Got it. So a wrap is when you buy something on seller financing. Right? So I buy a house from Steve with terms. Right?

Those sort of financing term. I bought it from him for $20 with $2,000. Right? I then go sell it to another buyer with sort of financing terms to them. Right?

So I have a I have a loan and I'm doing a wrap loan with another buyer. Mhmm. Right? That's pretty much what wraps up.

Steve: A second loan on top of the first month. It's not a second loan, but it's like a second loan.

Jorie: Yeah. There's a there's a loan between me and you and then we're wrapping another loan around that initial loan.

Steve: Right.

Jorie: Right? And the way that I do them, so in Michigan is is land contracts and PA, they're called loan installment loans. Right? So there's not another it's not a deed. So you're not recording a deed with them.

Right? But it's also not at least the option rent to own. It's seller financing. Right? So, you know, I'm getting principal and interest.

Right?

Steve: Right.

Jorie: But you're not recording your deed, so it's a little bit, you know, more.

Steve: Right. It's a

Jorie: little bit

Steve: more of advanced topic as contract for deed. So, you know, for you guys listening, the deed transfers after the loan is paid off.

Jorie: Paid off.

Steve: Normally, when you buy a house, the loan is there. You have the house, but it's subject to the loan.

Jorie: Correct.

Steve: You're saying you don't get the loan. You don't get the title until after loan's paid off. So is there a you mentioned high equity, non owner occupant, particularly

Jorie: Mhmm.

Steve: Empty nesters. Is there a loan balance? Like, is it 100% equity? Is there

Jorie: I usually do 70%. I do 70%.

Steve: Right? So 70% equity or more?

Jorie: Or more. And when I find out, because I mess with the filters, if I go up to 80%, it's like the same number. Right? There's not when I do it, the list doesn't change that much. Right?

So I do like 70%, equity loan. Okay. So loan to value, meaning, let's say that guy got a loan for a $100,000 ten years ago, they're gonna owe less than 70% or more. Correct. Right?

So 30 they'd owe 30,000 or less on their on their loan.

Steve: So let's talk about, you know, strategically. You know? If someone wants to do this, go after this, you know, buying houses with no interest, What vehicle is working best for you? I guess, like, you're you're in you're in Michigan. You're in Pennsylvania.

Jorie: I'm in Michigan. I'm in Pennsylvania. I'm in, Indiana. We're in Florida.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Go go ahead.

Steve: So what mode like, what media is working best for you? I mean,

Jorie: it's direct mail. As far as marketing? Mhmm. Direct mail works best for me. Like, I know direct mail is kinda out.

Steve: It's not popular right now.

Jorie: But this is my theory. Nobody's doing it.

Steve: Right? Absolutely.

Jorie: Nobody's doing it. So if I'm doing direct mail, still a lot. Right? And everybody else is cold calling and RVM and text message blast. Right?

There's I'm not in 2015, there was like 20 postcards of the house. I would go to an appointment and everyone's doing direct mail. Right? Now everyone everyone that does direct mail always goes like a guy called me today. He's like, man, we should partner.

Everyone every house I go to, I see your postcard there. Right? You know? And he's not even doing direct mail right now, but he sees my postcard there and they always show him, hey, I gotta talk to this guy too. He sent me a postcard.

Right? And then it's it's also it's also the type of type of homeowner I'm I'm I'm reaching. Right? Like I said, they're older. Right?

They they check their mail. Right? If I'm sending out I'm gonna try to buy a house from a 25 year old, I'm not gonna send them direct mail. Right?

Steve: Hear something terrible? So I finally went through my mail in my house this past weekend.

Jorie: Because I

Steve: think my wife has said it for like four straight weekends. Like, we

Jorie: need to go through the mail. Yes. Dude, my wife does that to me. I go like every twice a month.

Steve: Oh, so you're twice

Jorie: a month.

Steve: I was opening a mail from October.

Jorie: Well, see, my wife my wife orders a lot from this site called Wish. Mhmm. Which you know about Wish? They send you they send you stuff. It's like a Chinese or something, Amazon.

Mhmm. So she's always like, check check the mail for my Wish package. Right? Or I wouldn't go ever.

Steve: So, for Olympic has a great question. How do you answer a seller, who asks if the buyer defaults? So the buyer stops paying. What are you telling the seller?

Jorie: The seller has no idea that I sold on the wrap. Mhmm. Okay. My agreement's with the seller. I bought the house from the seller on seller financing terms, which means I am the homeowner.

I'm not rent this is not rent to own. Mhmm. I own the house. That seller owns the note. They own the mortgage.

Just like if you get a house from, you know, you get a mortgage from JB JB Morgan Chase. Right? I can do whatever I want with the house. I can sell the house. I can flip the house.

I can rent it out. I can sell it with seller financing terms. Right? Right. My responsibility is to the seller.

I'm gonna always make sure that seller has my payment on time every month. Right? Mhmm. So the seller has no idea.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Now that other buyer, right, they they have to worry more about, am I gonna pay the seller because that's they have more risk in it than I do.

Steve: Gotcha. So let's say the other guy doesn't make a payment. What happens then?

Jorie: So the guy I sold it to? Yep. If he doesn't pay it, I send me my payment to the seller.

Steve: Right. Right. And then you start taking over. Like, what's the consequence? How do

Jorie: you Oh, so let's say he doesn't make payments and he's, like, behind, he's defaulting. So you do on a on a land contract or a loan installment, it's still it's still a foreclosure process. Right? It's not an eviction. So let's say they don't make a payment, we would file for eviction.

It's faster than, like, like in Michigan, it's six months redemption period in Michigan. Mhmm. If you sell it on if you sell it without a land contract, and a land contract is ninety days redemption redemption period. That's what it was. I I think it still is.

In Pennsylvania, there's no redemption period at all in Pennsylvania. So you can you can you can foreclose on it after one missed payment.

Steve: In Pennsylvania?

Jorie: There's no redemption period.

Steve: One month? Yes. Wow. That's crazy. Okay.

So what does your organization look like today, you know, running the operation that you run?

Jorie: Got it. So I partner. I do a lot of partnerships. I'm in different markets. And the way that it works is I partner with guys in Michigan.

I partner with guys in PA. And we're we're true partners. Right? So let's say I I partner with a guy in Michigan. We're fifty fifty.

Usually, how it works is I'm running all the back office stuff, all the systems, all the phones, all that. You know, they're they're usually financing or we're, you know, financing most of the marketing or we we spent the marketing Mhmm. Depending on who it is. And they're my acquisition manager in that area, my partner. Right?

Yeah. And then so so I'm doing a lot of the back office stuff. I have an acquisition manager. I have a marketing director who has all marketing. Also does this position as far as sending out the email blast and stuff like that.

I have a lead like, someone who handles the lead coordination of all the the list and stuff like that.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: And, I mean, that's pretty much our that's pretty much our operation. Right? But I have this setup in different markets with different people.

Steve: So someone calls in, let's say it's in Michigan or Pennsylvania, someone calls in and one of your mailers Mhmm. Where does that go?

Jorie: The call was a call row. Right? We have call row. Mhmm. Either either I will call answer it or my partner will answer it usually.

Alright. To your

Steve: local partner?

Jorie: My local partner. Yep. That's usually how it works. We'll we'll answer the call. After the call is answered, you know, we set the appointment up with my acquisition manager in that in that area.

Well, let me take that back though. I do have acquisition acquisition guy in both markets who's not a partner who would just pay a fee. Mhmm. But they don't do every appointment. Right?

They do some appointments and my partner does some appointments too.

Steve: How does that work?

Jorie: Pretty much is by availability. Right? So let's say my partner can't do it, then we'll call our acquisition, you know, rep and they'll do it. And because we're in so much so even in Michigan, I'm in, like, four different cities. So I have one in Kalamazoo.

I have I have a guy as far as, like, acquisition rep, I have one in Kalamazoo. I have one in Grand Rapids. I have one in Muskegon, because, you know, that's like a two hour difference.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: In Pennsylvania, I have a guy that can do it in different parts of Pennsylvania. In Florida, we have a guy in Florida that does it, you know, that's a rep if if one of the partners can't do it.

Steve: Okay. And then, so no one's cold calling?

Jorie: We do some cold calling, but I don't have, like, full time cold calling. No.

Steve: Okay. No. So we're talking about acquisition guys. Any disposition guys or just the same guy?

Jorie: Same guy. Right? I I mean, for for example, we just did the deal in Kalamazoo that we're closing on Friday. Right? We got this deal locked up on, we I got in a contract on the acquisition side a week ago.

Right? By the acquisition guy. Mhmm. He sold it to one of his buyers on this position side a week later, and it's closing. Most of the guys who do acquisition can do disposition.

Right? Especially they're all realtors for the most part, most of them.

Steve: Okay.

Jorie: So I mean, they know how to do both. Right? So instead of having acquisition and disposition and marketing and that. Right? My guys on the ground are my acquisition and disposition.

My marketing guy does a lot of this position too as far as anything online. Mhmm. He does all the disposition online. He fills calls. He fills, you know, Facebook marketplace messages.

He fills emails, all that.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. And then

Jorie: I do a lot of this too. I mean, because, honestly, a lot of my buyers in one of these markets, if I get a deal, I can call a guy up and sell it in, like, an hour. You

Steve: know? Yeah.

Jorie: So my buyers is huge, but it's my main 10 to 15 buyers that buy most of the stuff.

Steve: Right. Who's in charge of the KPIs in in your operation?

Jorie: I do the KPIs.

Steve: What is the main KPIs?

Jorie: I don't do a lot of KPIs. I'll tell you to you. I don't I do cost per deal. We do, we do, cost per deal. We do average, assignment fee.

Mhmm. We do average average, average assignment fee, cost per deal, number of leads per contract Mhmm. Stuff like that. But we're not doing a ton of ton of KPIs. You know?

I'm just you know, I really I'm really I'm not.

Steve: What percentage of your business is is wholesaling? What percentage of your business is, seller carry, creative financing?

Jorie: I'd say

Steve: And how much of it is is actual, like, turning into a listing?

Jorie: 1% listing.

Steve: Okay. Yeah.

Jorie: Zero. Like, I don't do listings hardly at all.

Steve: Okay.

Jorie: Even when I get them, I give them to somebody else.

Steve: Right.

Jorie: That that does them. Oh, man. The last few months, it's been about $50.50 as far as the stuff that I'm buying. Mhmm. We bought, I think, seven homes that we're holding, that we bought with seller financing.

And then we're selling them either with sort of financing terms or holding them as rentals. So probably $50.50 the last few months, but normally I'd say about seventy thirty.

Steve: 78%.

Jorie: 70% wholesaling, 30% as far as other things that we're doing. Okay.

Steve: And what are your target? What what is your average assignment fee?

Jorie: About $8.

Steve: $8? Mhmm. Okay.

Jorie: About $8. I'm obsessed with multifamily right now. We're we I've like, I negotiate multifamily deals every day even if I know I'm not gonna buy it. Mhmm. So I know how to not negotiate.

I I, analyze them. So I know how to analyze the numbers because I'm going heavy, heavy, heavy to multifamily.

Steve: We'll talk about that.

Jorie: Yeah. I mean, I'm just you can't just wholesale. Right? You you can't. Mhmm.

And I know wholesaling is so huge right now. Right? Which is good. Yeah.

Steve: It's really hard.

Jorie: And people are learning it, which is good. Right? But I want I want people to understand you need to have more than wholesaling. Right? The reason why I can do these sort of financing deals is because I have knowledge on stuff that require that you don't learn if all you do is wholesale.

Right? Yeah. So I probably do double the deals of the normal wholesale because I'm gonna do sort of financing on some. Right? I'm gonna I'm gonna buy and hold some.

I'm gonna do, you know, a syndication for a multifamily purchase on some. If all you're doing is trying to do wholesale or do it for an assignment fee to a flipper, your mark is very, very small. Right? So, you know, I've been doing this since 2007. I know how the market goes up and down.

I know how, like, stuff slows down. You know, my goal now is to have enough multifamily residual income, right, to cover basically what I need. I'm not gonna ever stop wholesaling because that's what funds everything else I do. Yeah. You know, but It's

Steve: not your exit.

Jorie: It's no, it's not, you know. And I can look at way more deals and find a solution to that deal because I have other tools to use besides all I can do is wholesale this deal. Right? If you're doing seller financing, I take on deals that most like wholesalers wouldn't wouldn't even touch. Right?

And you wouldn't touch with cash. But because I can negotiate 0% interest on our financing terms and make it cash flow, it makes sense for me. I take it down. You know? So yeah, I'm obsessed with multifamily.

I mean, I'm looking at buying a three unit right now. I just missed out on a six unit. I'm mad about I'm gonna make an offer on that. Yeah. You know?

Steve: So how are you finding this multifamily?

Jorie: Doing my wholesale marketing. The same exact same exact strategies, you know? Non owner occupant, high equity list. Mhmm. You know?

A lot of these are are older landlords who own I I do one thing where I target, you know, you get a list and you'll see this one company or person owns a ton of houses. Well, I I make sure that I put that in a separate list. And I'm a cold call that guy. Mhmm. I'm a direct know that guy.

Everywhere I can. I wanna buy his, you know, his multifamily. Right? And I wanna buy him with sort of financing terms because he's probably open to it. Yeah.

You know, he probably is. I I have a guy right now in Kalamazoo. We're negotiating. He has 10 properties. We're negotiating on sort of financing terms of about 10.

Steve: Yeah. Wow. So deal flow, like, how many deals you guys doing a month wholesale? And how much you guys doing, creative financing?

Jorie: Like in a normal month when we're like probably about eight total between the two.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Probably like six wholesale and like, you know, two or three creative financing.

Steve: Okay. So now this strategy that you're we're talking about with creative financing is really is really attractive. Right? Yes. You know, like who who could say no to 0% interest?

Jorie: On our side as buyer? Yeah. No. Yeah. So You can't.

Steve: As far as, you know, with the strategy, how many properties are you are you holding on to right now for your own personal portfolio with seller carry?

Jorie: Right now, personally, I think we have, like there's, like, nine.

Steve: Nine?

Jorie: Nine. And that's been all this year.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jorie: I mean, I went the last May and June, it was, like, I I pray every deal that we get, and I offered that to them, they were open to it. And the numbers were just too sweet for me to, like, wholesale it. Mhmm. You know? Like, there was, like, well, I can get this house for 30 k, 3,000 down, 0% interest, right, for four years.

And then when it was all said and done, I negotiated it down to, like, 18 k, you know, at the end of it. It just makes sense to hold on to it, you know? Right. If you just keep hosting everything away, you have to live and hustle. This is a job.

This is a grind. Like, I love I love the grind. I love the I love all about it. You know, I love the hustle of it. That's why I'm a hustler.

You know, that's what I do. I love doing it. Right? But I get tired too. I've been doing it since 'seven.

I wanna create some residual income over here so like I can go over to Arizona for a week. Right. Just, you know, know that I got those checks come in. So, you know, right now I'm more focused on holding than I am wholesaling. As far as, you know, I'm gonna wholesale everything.

Especially if it's a single family deal, I'm gonna probably either, you know, buy it with sort of financing terms and then sell it with a wrap with sort of financing. I don't wanna hold single family homes. Yeah. There's just too many headaches. Right?

But if it's a multi unit or more, I'm gonna try to find a way to buy that and hold on to it. Gotcha. That's my mindset right now.

Steve: Marcus has a question and he wants to know what your shirt says.

Jorie: This shirt says, most young kings get their head cut off. Most young kings get a haircut. This is a shirt from the marathon store. It's a Nipsey Hussle shirt.

Steve: Uh-huh. Right?

Jorie: So Nipsey is an inspiration for me. I liked what he was doing. He was a young guy out there, you know, really out there, you know, buying real estate, investing in this neighborhood, you know. And I bought the shirt from the marathon store. My wife got it for me for my birthday.

Thank you, Jackie.

Steve: So to do what you're doing, what's your monthly marketing expense?

Jorie: Marketing is about $67 a month. Mhmm. Yeah. And that's that's in all the markets.

Steve: It's not bad.

Jorie: No. It's not For all

Steve: these different markets.

Jorie: I mean, do we do our direct mail in house? Okay. You know, so we're cutting our cost for direct mail down by a lot. Right? We do have direct mail in house.

And that's usually the high cost. I mean, you can do text and cold call. That's what we do.

Steve: We run everything pretty lean through texting and everything and cold calling.

Jorie: You know, because I'm doing direct mail in house.

Steve: But still, if you're doing direct mail, that sounds really low. It's impressive.

Jorie: Yeah. I mean, I'm not I'm not sending out 20,000 postcards, you know. Like, for last week, we sent out 3,000 postcards. Right? We probably got about 90 calls back.

We probably did about 15 appointments. We know we have two deals already. We're negotiating two more. Right? So we might make $20 and it costs it costs us a thousand bucks to send out, you know, 3,000 postcards.

Right? So I'm very very targeted on it so that I'm not wasting a lot of money with direct mail. But, no. I'm late. I like to be lean.

I don't like to have a lot of overhead. You know, being a realtor for how long I was, I wanna say lean. The mark the market changes.

Steve: You know what? I'm

Jorie: the same way. This is the heck of you, man.

Steve: I have I have friends that call me, you know, basically a chicken for not spending more on marketing. But Yeah. I spend a lot of money as a realtor.

Jorie: Yeah.

Steve: I'm not trying to relive.

Jorie: No. And I've been through those lean I've been through those droughts where it's like, if you have a ton of overhead, not not knocking anybody who does it, you know. But I just mean personally, you know, I don't need a lot. I'm a simple guy. Right?

I got a wife, five kids, you know, I watch football. Like, I know what I need to live off of and that's,

Steve: you know, the I've had those months, you know, where my expenses are, like, you know, $40.50 k a month. And you made 20 k. It's like, that's a lot of money, but it's less than 50. So you're taking a 30 k loss for the month. Yeah.

Jorie: I like the state lien. That's just the way that I've been, you know, and it works.

Steve: For Olympic wants to know, how do you find private lenders that will do seller financing?

Jorie: Man, that's easy. Honestly. That's like guys, the seller finance so the note buying market Mhmm. Right, is a lot bigger than people think.

Steve: Oh, yeah. You and I were talking about this. We were in Dallas. Yeah.

Jorie: Yeah. Yeah. We were talking you were talking to some guys who are buying notes. It's like and it's very easy. Right?

Because let's say I go to I go to Steve. He's a private lender. Right? And I say, hey, Steve. I got this house for $50.

I'll give you 10% interest on your on your money. Right? 10% interest for, you know, three to four years. Mhmm. Right?

And then I show them what I'm doing with it. Right? I'm selling and sort of finding somebody else for a $100 at 10%. You know? It's another investor.

First of all, I'm buying the house under value. Right? So a private lender, if you were to default, they won't look at the asset. You know? That's all all you can want is asset.

Right? What is the asset worth? Right? Well, as long as the asset's under value, you can show that. Right?

And they know that you can make the payments, they're usually gonna be fine with it. Right? And if they know that your extra that your extra strategy is solid, they'll be fine with it. Right? So that's the easy way, to do it is, you know, with notes, private lenders understand notes.

That's what they do. Absolutely. So that's that's what they're doing. Yeah. So when you come in with a note and you're not trying to fix and flip, which is risky or this or that, I think they're more open to that than they are other kind of vehicles.

Steve: So let's say you got some notes. Right? You got this property and it's 10% interest because you sold to someone else at 10%.

Jorie: Mhmm.

Steve: I mean, what is the aftermarket look like for notes? That's a whole another

Jorie: world I don't wanna show. Whole other world. Yep. Well, let me tell you something I do. Another vehicle that we do that's pretty powerful.

We actually wholesale notes. Mhmm. Right? So when I find let's say I find a house for $20. Right?

And then I locked up for $20 as a wholesaler. Right? Then I sold it with seller financing for $50 to an end buyer and seller financing. Right? So let's say that end buyer is gonna pay $50 or 5,000 down, so their loan balance is $45,000.

I go find a note buyer who wants to buy that note at a discount, usually for 8590%. And I'll sell that $45,000 note to a note buyer for, let's say, $35. Yeah. What I do though is my note buyer's gonna pay $35 on the first transaction on my transaction as a wholesaler. So I'm gonna make from $20.35, $15 from that and then he's gonna sell it to the note buyer right away.

Right? For the 45 for that note and I make the down payment on that which is $5.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: So I never bought the house at all. All I did was I found a distressed a distressed asset tied up for $20. Mhmm. I found an invite who would buy it with sort of financing for $50 and I created a note. You like, that's you have to know how to create a note to to be able to plan this land.

I created a note. Then I sold that note to a note buyer.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: And I made I made money on the wholesale to note buyer transaction and on the down payment of the note the note buyer transaction. Right? So that's one thing we do. So what was your question? You're gonna go back to it?

Steve: Well, I was just asking in general, like, in the note buyer world, like, how does even one even get started in the note buyer?

Jorie: Finding a note buyers? Yeah. Being a no buyer or finding Being a no buyer. To to become a no buyer is easy. There's there's there's many I'm trying to I'm trying to find the best way because you just find guys.

When you start doing it, you just find guys to buy notes. Yeah. I mean, pretty much when you're doing it, like, they just they just come to you. Right? If if you put something on the universe, it's gonna come to you.

Right? Mhmm. So you don't realize that that many people do it until you start you do your first deal. Right? Or you do your second deal.

Now you can go online and find lots of companies who buy notes. There's big time companies who buy notes, you know, in bulk or they'll buy them single all the time all the time. But in your local market, you know, find investors, you know, go to your REI meetings or whatever and find investors and ask them if they wanna hold a note. Right? Because lots of them do.

The other way to do is is contact these IRA companies, like Quest IRA, these companies. Mhmm. Most of the people who invest their IRAs in real estate, a lot of them invested into notes.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: Right? So most of my note buyers that we sold houses to in Michigan, a lot of them, were from out of state. If you're an out of state investor, you went on real estate, you'd rather own the note than on the property. Right. Because if you own the note, there's no heading.

Right? So if you own the note, you have a servicer who pays your money per month. You pay them probably 10% fee. Right? But your principal and interest you get, you know what it is.

You know what your numbers are. Right? So a lot of people who invest their IRAs, they invest into notes.

Steve: Gotcha. Evander Livingston wants to know, what's something you learned in real estate that, is a mistake that you'll never make again?

Jorie: Hold on to, properties. The reason why I'm obsessed with holding on to properties because every day, I go on MLS and see a property I that I own for $10 in 2009 that we sold. Mhmm. That's being sold for 110 now.

Steve: Yeah. And

Jorie: I'm just like, Jackie, these oh my goodness. So But you needed

Steve: to eat back then.

Jorie: I did need to eat, but I also could have held on to a lot more. Right? Like, I didn't need to eat, but I was making enough money. I was making enough fast money in commissions where I could have bought more and held on to more. Right?

I didn't know that I was young and like, everyone was afraid. Right? Mhmm. Besides the guys who are, of course, the market makers, but everyone was afraid. Right now, you know, hold on to it.

Like, don't wholesale every deal. Like, don't don't give up the bag quickly. Right? Mhmm. The long money is way more beneficial than the short money.

Right? Like, the reason why I do sort of financing, I might make $10 on a wholesale deal, but over ten years of that sort of finance deal, I may make I'll probably make, like, $80,000. Right? So, you know, hold on to properties, create residual income. That's my my I I gave away too many properties when I was younger.

Steve: Yeah. You know, during the last recession, you know, my wife says we we screwed up in not buying more properties.

Jorie: Yeah. And I

Steve: told her, you don't understand. We were broke. We didn't buy any more properties. You were married

Jorie: to a realtor. We weren't buying any more properties. We got broke in the middle. If I would have bought more at the beginning of the crash when I was making a lot of money. Right?

And I had those, you know, cash flowing and held on to them, I would have been fine. You know? What happened was nobody knew what's gonna happen. Like 2011 hit and it was like nothing. Like I said, 2011, like 1314, there was like nothing moving.

Mhmm. And as a realtor, we're like, what do we do? You know? And I'm like, I was like 32, like, you know, 32, 33 years old. Never saw a market cycle before.

Right? Like now I I've seen I've been there at the top of it, the bottom of it, right here, you know, I mean, I I think we're about to tip over again soon, someday, you know.

Steve: Oh, I'm ready for it.

Jorie: I'm dude, I'm waiting.

Steve: So I know you said this earlier, but I'll ask it again. Winning assist wants to know where in Pennsylvania or PA area?

Jorie: Central PA. So pretty much from Harrisburg East to Philadelphia.

Steve: Okay.

Jorie: And then, Right now, we're gonna be in Pittsburgh soon too. I'm from one thing that where I'm at, because people always ask me where's the best place to virtual wholesale. Right? And I say it's up to you. I'm from Pennsylvania.

I'm from Pittsburgh and Harrisburg. I I lived in Pittsburgh and Harrisburg. I have connections there that make it easy for me. I'm I'm a realtor in Michigan. I was in Michigan from 2005 till '16.

Right? I live I live in Florida. So, like, of course, there's other markets where I'm not at. But for me, it's like what is easiest for me to have people on the ground that I can trust. And that's where I wholesale that.

Steve: Gotcha. Makes sense. So are there oh, we didn't even talk about total monthly overhead.

Jorie: My total monthly overhead is very, very lean because most of it's marketing. And then I have my systems. Right? So, I mean, probably, like, $9.10, $99,000 probably.

Steve: It's not bad.

Jorie: No.

Steve: Any of your CRM tools or or or systems that you can live without?

Jorie: CallRail. CallRail saves me because CallRail records all my calls. It, CallRail because I I move a lot. So me negotiating with sellers and stuff, I'm able to go back to CallRail. I use well, I don't use DealMachine, but I have people that use DealMachine.

I don't do much drive. I do drive for dollars, but most of my stuff is, you know, from other people doing that. So, CallRail, what else are we using right now? I use Renewal Gateway for list.

Steve: Really?

Jorie: Yeah. And I I didn't have repo gateway for like a month, and I was trying some of the stuff out. And I was like, I was going crazy. Like, to me, repo gateway, I can go on there and filter whatever list I want whenever I want. Right?

And so if I'm going to a new market, I can go on there and pull list right now, get the list off, and then send it to batch skip trace. I use them too for skip tracing. So I couldn't live without them either. Mhmm. What up, Jesse?

So let's go see them later on today. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. Probably call RealReal Gateway.

You know, CRM is a CRM. I need a CRM, but whichever one you use, you know,

Steve: use it. What is your why?

Jorie: My wife, my five kids, my mother, my aunts, my uncles. I was, you know, I had a big, big support system growing up, you know. Again, my mom raised me and my brother. She's a single family, you know, single mom. But I lived in a house at times where it was like me, my brother, my mom, an aunt, another aunt, an uncle, a grandfather.

Right? So like, you know, that family, it took a village. I grew up I grew up in a time where it took a village, you know, I actually had a village that that raised me, you know, and so everything I'm doing now is for, you know, them, you know, for my wife and my kids, you know, for legacy, you know, I wanna I wanna be able to leave a legacy, you know, generational wealth for my family. I want I want my kids my kids are in my business, you know, like my daughter does stuff. My, you know, my son has done he's he's scrub list for me.

You know, we've gotten a water list. He's gonna find the owners so he could put into a Google Sheet for us. You know? I want them to, you know, be able to do what I'm doing. Not not just what I'm doing, but at least have real estate that they invest in or they own and pass it on and keep passing on.

Steve: So, you

Jorie: know, that's definitely my lie.

Steve: Well, you're not wrong when you said earlier that you saw a lot in Chris Rood's interview yesterday. A lot of commonalities.

Jorie: I'm on a plane. So people don't understand. Listen. It took me, like, three days to get here. I was supposed to be here last night.

Like, I've had I've been on five planes. I just got I I landed in Tempe. I landed in Phoenix at 01:30. One no. 01:15.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: I was supposed to get a haircut last night for my cousin. He lives here. I couldn't get a haircut. The the hotel had no water. I took a shower.

Just came here. But I watched this interview on a plan. I download. I'm like, Jackie, this guy sounds just like us. Right?

Five kids. Like, we homeschool one daughter right now. We talk about homeschooling all our kids. Right? Just because we wanna travel.

I can do this from wherever I I wanna do it from. Right? Virtual with a virtual wholesaling. And then if you own multifamily, you can do it from wherever you want. Yep.

You know? So I can homeschool kids, travel here, work there for two weeks. So I when I watched, I was like, man, this guy sounds a lot like, you know, like us. It was just it was kinda funny.

Steve: Yeah. So what's your biggest struggle right now?

Jorie: My biggest struggle, it was it was trying to figure out, do I wanna get big or stay where I'm at. Right? Because you always just scale, scale, scale, scale, scale. Do I wanna I know I could. Do I wanna be the guy that has a ton of VA's, a ton of this, a ton of that, doing twenty, thirty deals a month or am I happy doing what I'm doing right now?

So I was kind of going back and forth with that. And I'm happy what I'm doing right now. I'm happy with my, you know, with my lifestyle. Right? Yeah.

I coach high school football. Right? So I'm very active in that. You know, I'm active with my kids. I see my kids every day.

You know, like I work a lot, but I but like I work a lot, but I'm with my wife all the time, you know, like she she works with me, you know, we do stuff. We go to the beach. I work at the beach for a day and she's with me, right? So it's like, I'm always working, but I'm always also with my family, you know? So that was my struggle.

Do I wanna grow, grow, grow, or do I wanna, like, you know, stay where I'm at? And I and I like where I'm at. You know? I like doing eight to 10 deals a month, you know, low overhead, you know, spending time with the family.

Steve: Yeah. You

Jorie: know? That it works for me.

Steve: I appreciate that because that's something that Max and I, we talk about. You know, we're talking about if we can get 10 deals a month.

Jorie: We're good.

Steve: Right? Like, we're making between the two of us, 150 k a month, like, what more do we really need?

Jorie: You're good. I mean, you and and, you know, some guys want to do 50 deals a month. Right? And that's great, you know? Right.

Steve: That's good. That's a checkbox.

Jorie: But yes. And there's a lot of overhead in that. Right? And I tell people all the time, like, there's nothing wrong with doing three, four deals a month. Right?

Because it's all about what's your expenses per month. Right? Like, what is your lifestyle per month? What is this? That's what matters more.

It's not, oh, I do this many deals per month. Right? Because some of these guys, you know, might do all those deals, but their overhead's crazy. You know?

Steve: Yeah. You

Jorie: gotta find out what you what's what is your number that you need to live off of that makes you happy and then go out and get that.

Steve: Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. What's your superpower?

Jorie: Man, today I realized it's like it's it's my I have a positive mindset. Right? Like, extremely positive mindset to the fact that my wife gets mad at me sometimes. She's like, George, just be angry about something. Right?

I refuse when you realize you got one life, literally one life. Right? And it can be gone whenever. When you realize that, I won't let nothing make me angry. Right?

There's nothing that you can do, you know. Friday the only person who can make me angry is my wife, you know. But like when you realize you have one life, you can't waste a second of it with negative thoughts, you know, with anger, with anything. So because my mindset's so positive, right, it allows me to solve these problems, situations that others might not because when you're negative, it's emotion. Right?

You can't you can't think critically. Right?

Steve: So You can't think clearly.

Jorie: Exactly. Right? So I mean, today, I was supposed to be in Arizona last night at 10:30. I got here at 01:00, you know, but I had to figure out ways to get here because they told me all the time, she's never gonna get to till 5PM. Right?

So emotionally, I could've been mad, like, no. Me, I'm like, okay, we'll get there. I always say we'll get there. I always say we'll get there. And we got here, you know.

You know, there's deals that I do where it's like, this is not gonna get done. It's gonna get done. We'll figure it out. It might get done a month later, you know, but it's gonna get done. I've been through like you.

I've been through a storm where I was like, dude, we had no money. You know? So as a realtor, I had no money. As a nurse, I had no money. As a nurse, I had no money.

I could sit there and get emotional and stuff. No. I'm gonna figure out a way to get the money to do what I gotta do. You know? So the positive mindset allows me to use my skills.

Right? Because I saw Chris, you were talking about skills, which I agree with. But a lot of people have skills that they don't use because their mindset doesn't allow them to use it. Right? If you if you're negative thinking, if you're emotional, if you can't think clearly, you can't use those skills you have.

When you're positive and you think clearly, you can then figure out what skill works best, you know. Okay. I can't wholesale that deal back and do sort of financing. Right. Right?

And then that also allows me that sellers I feel like sellers love me. You know, I I talk to sellers and they love me, you know. I close deals over the phone, usually on the first phone call, you know, just off off of the phone call that we have on the phone call because I'm so positive. I've had people say, you know, you just always smile. I just, you know, people wanna be around you when you're happy.

Absolutely. They don't wanna be around other people. So in this business, you know, being happy and being positive has allowed me to go a long way because as a realtor or an investor or whatever, it's all about people. This is a people business.

Steve: 100%. And it's funny you talk about, you know, smile a lot because, like, I've had people who's like, you smile too much. Like, I don't see the problem with this.

Jorie: I get all the time. I'm like, why should I be why should I be angry? You know, like, you get one life, man. I'm gonna be as happy as I'm gonna be. I'm gonna do whatever I wanna do, and I'm gonna achieve all I wanna achieve in this life because when it's over, it's over.

Steve: Absolutely. You know? Sierra Classic wants to know if you're mentoring.

Jorie: Oh, man. I get that. I'm not mentoring. If you guys don't have a podcast with my host Kevin. It's called Shut Up and Invest.

You can find us on Spotify, iTunes. We're also on YouTube. Shut Up and Invest. Go, subscribe. Like Steve said, subscribe to us, you know, today.

We will be doing some courses from that that we do. Mentoring takes a lot of time.

Steve: Yeah.

Jorie: It does. Right? For me to do it successfully, it's almost like you have to become a mentor. Right? I'd have to steal everything and become a mentor.

Right? And I can't honestly do that and say I mentor. Right? I do talk to people. I mean, and then Matthew twenty told me not to do this.

They told me Jory. They didn't say not to do. They said if you if you offer your help, you're gonna get blown up because I guess their instinct has been blown up since they since they left last week. Right? Reach out to me.

I will I will answer. I'll talk to you. I'll help you out, you know. I don't mentor. No.

We'll have some stuff that you can get from us as far as courses and seller financing. We do a lot of that kind of stuff because our whole thing now is be, you know, be your own bank. You know, I want wholesalers to also own properties because when times change and markets do shift, right, I think I'll be fine. I can wholesale. I can sell houses in any market.

Right? But you have to have skills. I had to learn how to do sort of financing deals when there was no credit. Right? So Yeah.

Yeah. You know, find us there.

Steve: Well, I think you and I have the advantage that we both went through the crap.

Jorie: We did. So We know what's coming.

Steve: Yeah. You

Jorie: know, like, we know what should be coming. I don't know. It just keeps getting pushed on, but it should be coming soon, and we know how to deal with it.

Steve: Supposedly. Kamoni Simon wants to know, is there any material that you read to help maintain your positive mindset?

Jorie: I have a routine. I wake up at five. I try to wake up at, like, 04:30 every morning. When I wake up, as soon as I wake up, I put my phone on, my headphones in my ear, and I play a motivational video on YouTube. Right?

So when I'm in the bathroom doing whatever, there's motivation going on. I then go run. I listen to motivational still. Right? I'm listening to, like, TD Jakes, Eric you know, people who just speak motivation in your life.

Right? So I do that in the morning. You know, your morning is what controls your day. Right? I don't get up and look at an email, take a phone call, nothing for the first two hours of my day.

Two or three hours of my day. I get up at 5AM because I have five kids. And if I get up when they get up, my whole day will be shot. Because as soon as they get up, they want something. Right?

So I need that first two hours of my day, you know, prayer, you know, meditation, read, exercise. Right? And then I do creative things in my business. Right? Because the thing is your mind is most creative when you first wake up.

Right? So, as far as motivational books, you know, I read a ton of books. I read, you know, I read motivational books, business books, history books, you know. I get motivated with history. I love history, so I like to read history lot.

But just, you know, there's so much motivational stuff out there right now, especially on YouTube. You know? Go in there and just put in motivational videos and listen to it every day. The first thing you do every day. You know?

And I and I guarantee you will start changing your mind.

Steve: Alright. Evander is saying Eric Thomas is the man. So

Jorie: Yeah. Listen to Eric Thomas every day.

Steve: So I wanna get the hip hop preacher on the show.

Jorie: That'd be awesome, man.

Steve: That would be awesome. Tyrone Waddler wants to know what books you're currently reading.

Jorie: Right now, I'm reading Traction.

Steve: Not for the first time.

Jorie: No. Okay. Good. No. I just finished the one thing.

I'm reading a book called The Next Great American City. Right? It's a book. I've been reading that for the last few weeks. And the reason I'm reading that book is talking about the rise of, like, small cities in America.

Like, it's written by the the governor of Oklahoma oh, no. The mayor of Oklahoma City and it's telling you what these cities did to become where they are now. Right? And I read that book because when I got into real estate, I was living in Michigan in the the Upper Peninsula Of Michigan, somewhere by Canada that no one knows Marquette, Michigan. And I read a book and the book told me about Grand Rapids.

When I moved to Grand Rapids, Grand Rapids wasn't known. That was Grand Rapids. If you look at any list as far as, well, let's say, murders, it's like number one or two on every list there is. But I was reading like a history book about, like, government stuff, and it said these cities are gonna be in the next real estate markets. They're they're gonna thrive.

And I moved the Grand Rapids off that book. So I'm reading this book right now because it's kinda showing you the small cities and what their governments are doing that's gonna propel them in next ten years. So that's kind of my market research of where I wanna invest that.

Steve: Interesting.

Jorie: And I'm also reading, I just finished a book. What was that book? I read so many books. What was that book? I figured it was a history book.

I figured it out, but Okay.

Steve: So I'm gonna let you think about what you wanna have for your last thought. And so, guys, I'm still getting a lot of requests for, our workshop. So Max and I are doing another one in September. If you wanna see if you qualify to come to our workshop at Phoenix, please go to disruptors.com. And then next week, we got Jamie Burleson Wooley coming in from Dallas, and she's gonna be on the show.

And on top of that, she's gonna be, the main headliner at our, monthly meetup at Dave and Buster's on August 1, 04:30 in Tempe. So, definitely check that out. What last messages you wanna leave with our listeners?

Jorie: Again, I I know I've been I keep saying that, you know, I want people to to learn how to be their own bank. Right? I'm so and when I went I met Steven Dallas at Max Michaels event. Right? It was awesome event.

Right? And I was so to me, it was so awesome because as a young black guy, I got real estate. When I got real estate, there was nobody in real estate. I would go to these realtor events, investor events. I'd be the only one there.

Right? And I was used to be mad about it. I was trying to tell people like buy I told people to buy real estate during the crash all over the place. No one would do it. Right?

And now we see a lot of ultrafication. People are mad. It's like, no. We could have bought those homes. Like, you could have bought that house for a thousand bucks Mhmm.

That you're mad about now, but you didn't you didn't value where you lived at. You didn't value your neighborhood. Somebody else valued it now, you know, and I'm talking about inner city neighborhoods. You know, we won't get mad. You know, I love that we wholesale.

I I wholesale. We have to wholesale. It's easy way to get in, but we have to also own some of the properties in that neighborhood. Right? And then when you learn to become the bank, I had someone ask me and say, you know, a wholesaling creates gentrification.

I said, no, it doesn't. I said 90% of sellers that I that I'm buying stuff from, right? Are usually out of state people who this house is just staying there becoming a sword to the community. And then I'm buying it and I'm reselling it to a local investor, right? Who's gonna fix it up and rent it out or a local homeowner, right?

We're providing homeowners, right? In cities who can't go to a bank and get a loan, right? Yeah. But we're using our skills to negotiate a way to buy that house for cheap and then sell it to them and sell the financing terms so that they can own that home, right? We have to learn all the skills that you can, right?

So we can actually own the stuff in our communities, own. Right? Learn how to do more things than just wholesale. Right? First of all, for yourself, because you just can't wholesale.

For it. Believe me, stuff changes. But also so that the neighbors will wholesale in, you know, then you can own houses. You can sell houses to that person. They can own houses and then we can bring everybody up together.

Steve: Yep. I love it. That's a powerful message. Someone wants to get a hold of you. How do they do that?

Jorie: You can find me on, Instagram at the allston group. The word the allston, my last name, group. Again, shubandinvest.com. Right? Go to our website.

You can reach out to us there. We have a Facebook group, Shub and Invest. And I'm also on Facebook at Jory Austin.

Steve: Yep. Awesome. Great show. Thank you.

Jorie: Appreciate it, Steve. Thanks, man.

Steve: Guys for watching.