Without this Skill, I Would Have Never Been a Millionaire

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of real estate disruptors. Today, as you can see, looks a little different. What we wanna offer you is a preview to our new podcast, Close More Sales with Ian Ross. If you don't know Ian, Ian actually runs our sales community.

And for this episode of Close More Sales, he'll be interviewing me about my sales journey. Why are we talking about sales? Well, we know sales is the fastest way to become a millionaire. So happy New Years, and I hope you enjoy the show. Comfort is irrelevant.

If this will lead to more revenue, if this will lead to a better paycheck, I'll do the uncomfortable thing. Doing the comfortable thing, doing the easy way out, if that's your standard or that's how you live, don't be in sales.

Ian Ross: Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Close More Sales podcast. Our purpose is to empower sales professionals and entrepreneurs to push themselves to grow, achieve unimaginable success without burning out, and ultimately transform their lives. I'm Ian Ross, and I'm obsessed with all things sales. And I work with teams across the country to make more money by asking better questions. The most proven path to achieving financial freedom is maximizing your earning potential, and a sales role is the lowest barrier with the highest possible ceiling for entry onto that path.

Anyone can become a killer salesperson with the right techniques, mindset, and consistency. Everything we cover on this podcast is geared toward one thing, helping you close more sales so you can live the life you want. Now this is a new podcast, so we're in the growth stage. If you get any value from this episode today, follow, subscribe, and let us know either in the comments on YouTube or in a review wherever you listen to podcast, and tell us what you got out of the show. If you have conversations where how well you speak determines how much money you can make, you are in a sales role.

And if you'd like to get better at what you do, text close, c l o s e, to 33777, and we'll see if we can help you out along the process. Now I have with me today the one and only Steve Trang, who most of you probably know either from the Real Estate Disruptors podcast, Pardon the Disruption, Certainty Talks, or you've seen clips and videos from a sales training on YouTube or social media. But what most of you don't know is he's actually the reason I'm sitting here right now with this Close More Sales thing behind me and the reason I moved my young family to Phoenix, Arizona. So, Steve, welcome to the Close More Sales podcast.

Steve: Thank you for having me. This is something that we've envisioned for a very long time, and, I'm excited for this launch.

Ian: Awesome. Yeah. Me too. I wanna start and get right into it with a a question that's been on my mind Mhmm. For a while, which is simply, like, how would your life be right now if you had never gotten into real estate and by extension sales?

Talk me through that version of Steve Trang.

Steve: Well, I can't imagine a world where I don't work for myself. Right? So I knew from the from the get go, I was not gonna stay a w two employee. I just knew that from the very beginning. I was always entrepreneurial growing up.

So my plan when I worked at Intel was they had a seven year thing where after seven years, you got a sabbatical. You got a two month vacation paid for by Intel, and all your stock options passed. Right? And so I always knew that at that seven year mark, I was gonna take my two month vacation and quit my job. So I was gonna do something else.

My my plan was I had to find a wife with health insurance benefits. That was that was, like, the only thing to stop me from, going on and and and do something else. So I knew it was gonna be, working for myself. What I thought was a very real possibility was being a contractor, a mercenary for hire for engineering. Right?

That I thought that was a very real possibility. I never thought about a sales career. Right? But a sales career is naturally what happens when you get into real estate, to sell real estate, but that wasn't the right plan initially either. The the whole plan was just to buy rental properties and create financial freedom.

Right. So I think it was just a function and a very early indicator of my massive shiny objects syndrome that got me from working a job to, hey. Let's buy some rental properties to, hey. I should be a realtor to where we are today.

Ian: So how far into being a realtor did you realize this is actually a sales role and I need to improve my sales skills?

Steve: Pretty early on. I I was working on my sales skills in the very beginning. I was listening to CDs, the car. I wish I knew title of those CDs because I borrowed them from my broker, and I used some of those philosophies today. So, like, when I'm quoting things, like, I don't I don't know who said it because I don't know the actual CD

Ian: Sure.

Steve: That I got it from. But, yeah, I mean, from the get go, there was those CDs. It was Zig Ziglar, loss of Zig Ziglar. You know? I can't remember the exact title, of his book, but he's got some great material out there on on being not necessarily a better salesperson, but how to act and behave like a salesperson.

So not so not the technical part Right. But the, the activities part, the the mindset stuff. So there's a lot of amazing content with Zig Ziglar early on in my career.

Ian: Is that some of the first stuff you started with, really focusing on following a process and the mindset before you got more tactical and thinking about the techniques for sales?

Steve: Well, the greatest challenge, I think today still, but definitely when I started in o seven, was there really wasn't a lot of great sales tactics Mhmm. Or at least the ones that were out there were really really hard to find. Right. And so, you know, I've learned a lot from the Sandler selling system. And one of the things I heard from David Sandler from one of his live events I've or I listened to his live events in the past, and it was like, I should have way more clients than I have, but you salespeople are being selfish and not telling other successful or other salespeople what techniques they're using to grow your business.

So, like, I need you guys to go out there and tell everyone else that my stuff is good so that I can have a better lifestyle. So for whatever reason, Sandler was never ever on my radar. Right? We had question based selling. We have, what's that, book about prospecting?

I can't think of it off the top of my head right now. But there are a lot of different books out there, again, on, like, adjusting and modifying your behavior. Right. And there's some stuff that are super tactical on, you know, what to say for this specific objection. But there was no sales framework

Ian: Right.

Steve: That was, again, prevalent, until I would say very, very recently.

Ian: Got it. Okay. Well, I'm curious because I actually don't know this. Could you do you remember your first sale in real estate? The first time you actually sold a piece of real estate?

Would you be willing to sort of walk me through that sale?

Steve: Well, it was shoddy and clunky. Right? Sure. And that my proudest moment. And, really, I had unrealistic expectations when I first got into sales.

Because first, I didn't see real estate as a sales role, as a realtor. I didn't feel like it was a sales role. And it was probably way too long, multiple years, where I treated being a salesperson like a bad thing. Right? Like, I don't wanna be a pushy salesperson.

I don't wanna bother people. And that was my mindset early on my career, and that inhibited me. Right? And what certainly didn't help was that what I was selling, I was selling friends and family. Because as a realtor, where do you start off?

Because we have influence. So you start off with your friends and family. And I was, you know, going around. Actually, my first opportunity, I was when I was working for this broker was there was this condo conversion where they were selling all these, apartments that they converted into condos. And, you know, we're we're selling these based off of return on investment.

So I was already working at Intel, in Chandler, but I started at Intel in Sacramento. I actually flew to Sacramento. I was like, hey. I got all these friends that make a lot of money that should invest. And so I went to go and talk to all of them, but there's opportunity over here.

And not one was interested in talking to me about it. Not one was, wanting to have a conversation about it. So, like, all these people that I hung out with that I consider friends, now we're like, you're a salesperson now. I don't really wanna spend time with you. And it was really fascinating.

You see this dynamic of, like, are you are you talking to me about this because you're trying to make money off of this, or do you believe in it? Right. And I absolutely believed in it. And so now this, hurt my ego. I was like, you've trusted me with, like, all these other important conversations.

Right? Like, where I'm gonna live? What should I buy this? Should I not buy this? Relationships.

And now I'm no longer this trustworthy person because I'm a salesperson.

Ian: Right. You have the title of salesperson, and therefore, naturally, people have a shield up when you're trying to talk to them.

Steve: The guard went up, and I was like, I've never experienced this guard. Because I've always been a person. But prior to that, when they had, like, hey. What do you think about this? I was always in that, like, consultant circle.

Yeah. Right? Like, hey. Steve's a friend. I can pick up, and he'll talk to me and walk me through this.

Like, what his thoughts are. I was never shy about my thoughts. Right? And so I I was always a great problem solver, but now that I'm a salesperson, I'm a trustworthy person to talk about things.

Ian: Sure. How did you start to overcome that? What was the process there?

Steve: Well, it I didn't do a very good job overcoming it.

Ian: As a

Steve: matter of fact, I'm still not a great person, to to deal with it with friends and family. Mhmm. But on the other side, I I wanna say after a few years, I fully embraced being a salesperson. Right? But the problem was even though I fully embrace being a salesperson, I was still a crappy salesperson.

So first, it was I'm a crappy salesperson, but that's okay because salespeople suck. So, like, no. I am a salesperson. I embrace this role, but I really suck at this. To now, there's a process where I can actually walk someone through, have a quality conversation that's highly consultative, with high trust, lower in the guard, and now we're actually solving people's problems.

So, how I solved it with friends and family, I haven't solved it. But with strangers, pretty good at it.

Ian: Got it. Okay. What were some of those other sort of I or I guess, what were were there any sort of fears or doubts you had once you're now you're in real estate, you're having conversations where money's on the line, you're no longer at Intel. What were some of the fears and doubts going through your head in that role once you sort of embrace that? I'm a salesperson, but I'm still not good at it yet.

Steve: Yeah. I think the biggest thing is not wanting to, come across as pushy. You know? Not because what is it what is the one place that everyone has anxiety walking into? It's a car dealership.

And so I don't wanna give this pushy feel. So it's always been my my fear. So in talking to friends and family, I I still have a little bit not today, but for the longest time, I had this thing where, like, I don't come across as pushy salesperson. So that doubt really, really, salted me for way, way too long. It wasn't even till recently.

Ian: Got it. And that doubt so how did that translate to the negativity? You weren't doing some of the things that you

Steve: I wasn't doing the behaviors that I was supposed to do. So as a realtor, you're supposed to reach out to friends and family. Hey, Ian. Do you know anyone that's looking to buy or sell a home in the next six to twelve months? Right?

I'm supposed to have conversations on a regular basis, ask these questions. Well, the precursor was having these, what I consider, inauthentic conversations. Hey, Ian. How's your family doing? You know, you got

Ian: small talk.

Steve: Yeah. You got anything planned this holiday weekend. Right? Christmas is right around the corner. You got anything fun?

And I had to have these conversations with you about your life and your family that if you know me well, it's just not on my top list of things that's on my mind. Right? And it's not that I don't care about your family. It's just how your family's doing is not like the things I wake up and I think about.

Ian: Right.

Steve: Right? So when I call you and say, hey. You know, how's family? How are you doing? It feels grossly inauthentic.

And then after all that right? Because I have to do the small talk first. Then it's like, so, Ian, you know, do you happen to know anyone that's looking to buy or sell a home in the next six or twelve months? You know? By the way, I like to work by referral.

And there's, like, this whole spiel, and it just felt so scripted and inauthentic. And I'm not gonna say that people could pick up on it, but for sure, it felt inauthentic, and that's definitely not helping business.

Ian: Got it. So you felt inauthentic. And even if they couldn't necessarily pick on me, it was it wasn't hell it

Steve: wasn't serving you, haven't it? It wasn't me? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely wasn't me.

Ian: Do you think that's a challenge for a lot of realtors that they experience that same type of thing?

Steve: I'm sure it's a massive challenge for a lot of realtors. It's probably a challenge for anyone that has a product to sell that requires selling to your sphere of influence. I mean, look at it. What do we do every time someone posts anything about MLM on on Facebook? We roll our eyes Yeah.

And quietly judge them or judge them on the side

Ian: Not so quietly with other people. Yeah.

Steve: Right. Like, you look at, like, the one for the longest time Facebook was, it works. Right? Remember, like, that bandage thing? And, like, people post about it.

And so, there's a what's the other one? The juice thing? Like, it's not for mica, but it sounds like, like, Malliuca,

Ian: I think. Yeah. It's one of those.

Steve: Yeah. Right? So you see people post on it. It's like, no one wants to talk to that person anymore. So anytime, like, you're an MLM, it's the same thing as a salesperson.

Probably the exact same experience. Once you're a salesperson or once you're an MLM, which is a sales role, but once your MLM is like, let's do everything we can to stay, you know, arms length from that guy.

Ian: I had a lot of that myself. I'll admit. I'm my first commissioned only sales role was life insurance. I remember even before getting in life insurance, seeing someone who was in life insurance and then posting about how great it is. Mhmm.

And everyone be like, wow. I can't believe how sad this is. This guy's fall like, he's, like, tumbling down a a canyon basically for posting about what he does for work and believing in it. And there's the the natural doubt and mockery that comes from, oh, I'm a salesperson. Let me put my product and my services out there.

People Yeah.

Steve: People judge you. Absolutely.

Ian: So after that, I I you recall that first sale being with friends and family, not so good.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ian: Do you remember a time when you were starting to utilize some of the techniques, maybe something you picked up from watching stuff around Sandler's, you know, listening to those other tapes in the broker where you went into a home, you ran your consultation, you did techniques, and you got the sale. Mhmm. Can you remember a time where, like, when you started feeling that transition or or that Yeah.

Steve: I would say I didn't really have a great sales process. I had a process, but but it was fairly inconsistent. I would say that once I joined a coaching program, which is unfortunately way too way too late in my career. Right? Like, I started o seven.

I didn't get into coaching till, like, the 2010. Then I followed their process, and it worked. Looking back, it was a horrific sales process. However, it was a process I followed consistently. But because it was a process that I was committed to following, I knew the objections were gonna come.

Right. And I was prepared to handle those objections because we have, like, you know, book of magic answers. Like, here are the objections you're gonna get. What's your commission? Right?

Is it negotiable? What are you gonna do to market my home? So we had these, list of negotiate or or objections ready to to, you know, handle. But looking back, like, the sales process we have today, those objections are, like, meaningless. Like, we just walk over them.

Right? But we force those objections to come because we had a crappy process.

Ian: Right. Right. Yeah. I would say I mean, a bad process is definitely better than no process at all because you can iterate and improve on it and memorize certain steps and certain techniques and prepare for certain things even though you're suboptimal.

Steve: Yeah. So having a process you're opposed to because you're opposed to sales to having, well, okay. I'm a salesperson, but I don't have a good process too. Like, here's a bad process. Definitely improved sales.

Ian: So you're running a not ideal process, but you're starting to have things work. Mhmm. How did you sort of keep that momentum going, or what was your process internally to look at what you were doing and try and find ways to sort of improve it?

Steve: So the right answer probably would have been to continue get better getting better at sales. What I did instead was resign myself to, like, oh, I just suck at sales, and that's just the way it is. Because I I'm not pushy. Right? Like, I need to think about it.

Yeah. I understand it. We wanna think about it too. And so what I did, my solution to this was not to continue improving on sales because I thought I had capped out on what I could learn because I've looked for all the sales trainings, what was out there. I thought I capped out.

And so my solution then to solving this problem, because I was good at marketing this time, I was doing all my own marketing this time, was to just hire pushy salespeople. Right? Like, alright. I'll get the phones to ring. You go get the deal.

You go get the business. And that worked. Yeah. I mean, that was the process where I became, top 40 in the Phoenix market as a realtor of 45,000 realtors. Right?

Top 40 consistently. So top, you know, fraction of percent by being good at marketing and hiring salespeople that won't take no for an answer. That was a process that was a system that worked. Is it my proudest moment? No.

I don't regret it either because that was just an iteration to where we are today.

Ian: Sure. Sure. Got it. Okay. So when did you like, how long were you doing that for?

Like, what was the process?

Steve: From, I wanna say, 2012, 2013. So I opened my brokerage in 2013. So, I'll say 2012 before I opened my brokerage, and I ran that model until let's see. When I move away from because even though I evolved, I've always had a team afterwards. So I wouldn't say I moved away from that model necessarily as much as we've improved our sales process along the way.

Ian: Okay. So the the it's not necessarily you change the model. It's just that the improving part was in the process and the training.

Steve: We had more service orientation. We had more listening, asking better questions, and that started in '18. In 2018, we had a sales process that was different than the previous process of here's my presentation, blah blah blah. Actually, having a sales process that was seller oriented or customer facing, it's good for them. I was starting '18.

Ian: What oriented the change in 2018 for you to

Steve: start doing that? Well, it was actually getting sales training. You know? So I was oblivious to effective sales training for the longest time. And it was only because, at this time right?

So I have my brokerage. I'm a wholesaler. Right? So I'm a I have a brokerage. I'm a wholesaler.

And being a owning a brokerage, whenever we needed some contractor help, I had this contractor, Pace Morby. A lot of people have heard this guy. Right? So he's my GC that I would refer to my clients. So he's a general contractor.

I'm a broker. And I'm wholesaling, and he owns a home vester franchise. I was like, hey, Pace. Like, send me your deals. And he's like, well, I can't.

You know? I I I have to sell them to Jamil. I was like, yeah. Jamil and I are friends. You can sell you can sell them to me too.

He's like, no. I gotta sell them to Jamil. But I'm not taking no for an answer because, like, we're friends. Right? And so as I keep pestering him, he was saying, look.

If you're trying to do more deals, like, why don't you just hang out with all those home investor guys? Like, this place where all of us are guys hang out that I can be there at? It's not like a home investor meeting. No. That's like the place where I'll meet.

It's like, well, tell me more about it. Like, it's a seller office. Okay. Let me look at what Sandler thing is. Right?

So I schedule an appointment. I go in there, and I talked to this guy, and he's a Sandler sales coach. And I signed up for it because it's a room of investor, guys. There's no way I'm not making money in there.

Ian: Sure.

Steve: And I was the one who paid the 20, so he only got me for 7. Right? So I get into that room. I was like, this guy actually is an effective sales coach. He is able to put together all these pieces except for one.

There's only one piece I was missing up at this point. He's able to put all the pieces together in a way that I just had all these pieces all over the place that just didn't quite fit.

Ian: Right.

Steve: And so the only thing he added to not the only thing, but the biggest thing he added to, to it was the the delivery, the tonality. Right? Say these things in this way. I had the words. Right?

The the words are in the books. Right? But the tonality and delivery was where it it it, and and a process, but, I would say the biggest thing for me was was the the the tonality and delivery. And once I had that, it's like, oh, yeah. Scrap everything we've got.

This is what we're doing moving forward.

Ian: Okay. So that was and that was 2018?

Steve: That was '18.

Ian: Okay. So thinking about how you have a sales process today for running an appointment and, let's say, 2018, if you can sort of recall back, what are sort of the changes that you've made since you adopted some of the stuff you learned in Sandler and some of the other things you were doing to how you've adopted running things now, what's that gap? How has the process changed since then if it's changed at all?

Steve: The biggest gap is having a process where we're setting appropriate expectations beginning of the appointment. Right? Because before, you just come in, you do a small talk, let's be friends. Right. Can I do a presentation for you?

Right? And then I go for the close and then handle objections, which is a sales process. Sure. Right? So now it's like, hey.

Like, before we even get into, like, you know, can I just share with you how these appointments go? And then we set expectations as a very, very kind and courteous professional way as possible. I need a yes or no, you know, and just promise you promise me you won't think about it. Right? So that was the first thing.

Second thing, we all know that people buy emotionally and just virologically. And all these books all said find pain. Like, there's not a sales book that doesn't say, like, you gotta find pain. Right. Find the pain, push it.

Right? But they don't tell you how. Right. So it's like it's like a it's like an afterthought in the book. And so now we have like, we spend 40% or more of the time in pain.

And if you're not spending at least 40% of the time in pain, you're probably not getting a good contract. Right? If we can't find the motivation, then nothing else matters. Right. Right?

And so, now we spend a good amount of time in in, in pain and motivation and ultimately how they feel about all this. And then the the last thing, which we never did before, is prevent remorse. Right? Hey, Ian. Sometime between now and when we when things finally close, you're probably gonna have some thoughts, like, do you know if that make the right choice?

You know? Did did did did it do the right thing? We'll let you know that that's a completely normal thought. It's normal. Right?

And so then, like, two days later, like, god, did I make the right decision? Oh, Steve said that I was gonna have these thoughts. Oh, it's normal. Okay. And then it's like, it's not a major issue.

So I would say that's the third thing that we added that it's definitely not there. Before, I was like, gotta sign contract. Get out of here as fast as possible.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And was an aspect of realizing that need to happen just understanding that's just another version of setting expectations for

Steve: the person? Setting expectations. Yeah. Absolutely.

Ian: Why do you think most salespeople don't set expectations the right way? Is it because they're just unaware? They're afraid to do it? What do you think some of the hesitation is around there?

Steve: I would say predominantly is the lack of awareness. Yeah. Lack of awareness of the need for it. Right? Because it's it's that's one of those things that is obvious when you hear it.

That's what common sense is. Common sense is something that makes sense after you hear it. But prior hearing it, you just did it complete opposite way. I mean, another example. I I learned snowboarding from a buddy.

I didn't take lessons. Right? I learned it from a buddy. And what would I do every time I got off the lift? Just fall off.

You just lose control and you fall off. And he was like, because you put, you know, you got the one that's this is the the, snowboard that's attached to your leg and the other one that's not. Right? He's like and so what you do is when you get off is you put your foot your your side with that's attached first, and then you put the board, right, on the snow, and then you come down. And what you do, what I did, was I would just do that and then fall off.

He's like, why don't you just take your foot out and just catch yourself? Such an obvious thing. Right? And so what what happens after that? I don't fall anymore.

It's so obvious Right. When someone points it out. And you feel like an idiot when they point it out, but it's not something you necessarily think of. Right. Right.

Your thing is, like, just don't fall. And then so setting expectations. I think step one is a lack of awareness. But after the awareness, the courage to do it because it is an uncomfortable conversation. You know what's also uncomfortable?

Closing. Right? So let's just get all that discomfort out of the way early. Right? So I would say predominantly is a lack of awareness.

And after the awareness, people still don't do it because it's uncomfortable. But I don't think that's as big a deal because it's a pretty easy sale after they're after we're able to, get people aware of it. Were you uncomfortable doing it when you first started? I was. Yeah.

But I was also committed to process. Right. And I am because I am committed to doing things the right way for optimal success. Right? That goes back to my failed poker days.

Right? It goes back to engineering, expected value. So it it goes to basketball when I practice, goes to kung fu when I practice. Everything is done in an optimal way so that we have optimal results. Does it suck?

Yeah. Right. But if I want to run a business that's profitable and live the lifestyle that I wanna have, part of running, part of running a business, part of being a salesperson is there are things that just suck that you have to do. Yeah. That's the way it is.

Ian: So you've got comfortable with understanding, I wanna be objective in terms of what makes the most sense to do, and then I will do that thing even if it there's discomfort in doing it. Yeah.

Steve: This comfort is irrelevant. Right.

Ian: Right? It's only what's the right thing to do. Yeah.

Steve: Like, if this will lead to more revenue, if this will lead to a better paycheck, I'll do the uncomfortable thing. Doing the comfortable comfortable thing, doing the easy way out, if that's your standard or that's how you, you know, live, don't be in sales. Right. Sales is hard. Sales sucks.

Like, right, there are a lot of things that we do. It's like, well, that's disappointing. Alright? Deal's dying day of. Deal's dying before.

Buyer's back, and now can't no one can get ahold of the lender. Right? There are a lot of things that suck in sales. Yeah. If your fear is disappointment or discomfort, there are a lot of other jobs that you don't have to deal with that discomfort.

Ian: True. So let's say someone's listening who's in a sales role. They understand that maybe they got hired something in a role where they weren't even wasn't explicitly clear. This is definitely a sales role. You're gonna get a thousand no's.

There's plenty of people getting into the industry.

Steve: Yeah. A lot of people suck it into their role.

Ian: Getting suckered into the role. Getting sold the dream, and now they are more or less having sales conversations all the time. Yeah. And they wanna be like, I'm doing this now. I've had enough success to keep trying, but they're falling back and, like, oh, that's hard or that's uncomfortable.

I wanna do it, but I they're not wired instinctively to go, this is definitely the best way to do this. Therefore, I will do that even if I'm I'm it's uncomfortable. If they're listening right now, what should their approach be to start finding a way to consistently make those changes? What your recommendations be?

Steve: I would say it's a matter of reframing. Right? So if if you might be looking you might be looking at it as, like, what should I do or should I not do it? Right? One's uncomfort one's comfortable.

You don't want something more uncomfortable? Your kids being hungry. Not buying present not being able to buy Christmas presents. Not being able to take your wife on that vacation. Right?

So it's not like, should I do it or not do it? It's like, should I do it and then be able to create a lifestyle for my family or not do it? And it's like, yeah, honey. Sorry. We had another loan month.

Right? Like, as a sales manager, as a business owner, we have to hold the salespeople accountable. Right. But we're not alone here. The spouse is the other accountability partner.

Ian: Right.

Steve: Right? So I think if you just remember that me being unwilling to be uncomfortable is putting my comfort over the needs of my family. Right. And if we reframe it that way, you might be more willing to get uncomfortable. Got

Ian: it. Or almost even a a reframing and just focusing on the timeline. Do you actually wanna be uncomfortable for five minutes, or do you wanna be uncomfortable the rest of the time when you're at home with your family trying to live the life that you wanna live and you're not able to to do it yet because your results haven't been there?

Steve: Exactly.

Ian: Got it. So, yeah, that's, that's that's an interesting thing. So what should people do? I mean, if, like, say someone's like, alright. I wanna do that.

How should I do that? Like, talk me through advice for someone who wants to how to think about that, how to do it.

Steve: How to set proper expectations?

Ian: No. No. How to make that shift internally and stick to it.

Steve: You know, it's hard for me to say because I only had to hear it once. Right. And it was from a a book. It was give and take by Adam Grant. And, basically, what he was talking about in there was that anytime you're unwilling to do something, you're putting your comfort over the needed needs of your kids.

Right? Like, that's all it was. Like, I read that once. Like, okay. Well, there you go.

Like, I can't do this anymore. Now my easy way out again, I hired pushy salespeople. Right? But the reality is you just have to remember, like, it's your comfort or your family's comfort. Don't think there's any other way to

Ian: Just keeping that as a mantra. Yeah. Yeah. What if you are what if you're you don't have a family? What if you're a single guy?

How should you you just you know, you're in your early twenties.

Steve: You're at

Ian: your first sales role. You're, you know, low rent if not living at home. So And now you gotta get good at sales.

Steve: I can't say for sure in today's age of the twenties. Sure. But I know that when I was in my twenties, a lot of us were motivated by cars.

Ian: Okay.

Steve: Yeah. Right? So I think, you know, that vision board, which I'm not a big vision board guy, but a lot of people are. Right? But having that vision board or, like, the car you want.

Right? Like, well, how long are you willing to wait to get that car? Are you waiting twenty years, or are you waiting a year and a half? Because that's what we're talking about. If you're successful in sales, it's a pretty lucrative Yeah.

Lifestyle. You can basically determine your income. Choose your income. You know? Like, the joke we make is, like, you wanna make doctor money, you gotta ask questions like a doctor.

Right? Or the other thing is, you know, NFL kicker money. Like, that's I think that's the lowest in professional sports. Right? You wanna make NFL kicker money?

Right? You gotta you gotta you you just have to be willing to do the things in sales necessary. Yeah. To close more sales.

Ian: Yeah. Do you have any, do do you remember any sales or, like, stories where there was a you got a lot of resistance, but you've stuck to your process and and did what you objectively know works, and then you got the sale. Can you think of some stories that you'd be able to share?

Steve: Well, I mean, there was this one recently, where appointment was booked. I listened to the lead manager call. Right? Because the lead manager was in the office. And he's in acquisitions, but in this role, he was he was operating like a lead manager.

So I was I was listening to this call. They were like, okay. I got this. I'm motivated at all. Right?

And then Jaden, our operations for a wholesale company, books the appointment for me and our young, sales guy. I was like, okay. That was unfortunate. Like, that's a complete waste of time. Like, I don't know why I have to go to that one.

But because I have a newer sales guy that I want him to learn our sales process, I will go to the appointment, and I'll run it so that our young guy can see what it's like to run an effective sales process. They bought the house. Right? Like, it was crazy to me. Like, the guy that's jet, that demonstrated no motivation on the phone.

Like, no like, there's nothing here to me that said this guy's gonna sell his house at this kind of price that works for us. We bought his house, right, and was able to wholesale in a very short period of time. So I would say the biggest thing is probably the biggest resistance is not from the other person, but from ourselves.

Ian: Right.

Steve: Right? The the the we will tell ourselves stories looking at, the the notes that aren't true. Right? So I would say, resistance from from other, prospects. These days, not so much because for us, is that if they're if they won't follow our sales process, we'll be like, well, it doesn't seem like you're really that I think I look at their willingness to participate and work with us is part of the qualifying.

So I'll give you another example. We had a policy for the longest time on the realtor side where if a homeowner wants to look at a property, they had to come to the office. Like, they had to come to the office to do a consult before we show them a property. And what we found was if they would come to the office and do a consult with us, there is more than a 50% chance they're gonna do business with us. If they were unwilling to come to the office to run a consult, the likelihood of us doing business with them was less than 20%.

So their commitment or willingness to participate in our sales process is part of our qualification process.

Ian: Got it. Yeah. So you've almost you set up your process so that you're principally, you're almost sort of prequalifying to even run your process usually.

Steve: Yeah. Right? Because if you look at the deals that give us the biggest heartaches are the ones that we forced to be a deal. Right? The sale that, like, ah, this is sales and I say, well, let's let's let's just force this through.

And then that's just a nightmare. Right? So, but the ones that follow our process seamlessly are our easiest deals. They put up less resistance. It's an easier transaction.

It's more delightful. No one in the office is complaining about this prospect or this client now. But the ones that we kinda force our way in is like, yeah, you know, it's not quite a good fit, but let's try to make it work anyway. They're driving the the transaction coordinator crazy. They're driving the finance department crazy.

Everyone does not like talking to this person. Right. So part of their willingness to work with us in our process demonstrates, the whether we should work with this person or not.

Ian: You've trained a lot of teams, in real estate and, you know, just in general across the country. I'm curious what you think the biggest mistake most businesses are making in terms of how they run their process.

Steve: Commitment to the process. And this is where I failed as well for the longest time. I mean, I would say this year, 2023, is the first time where we've measured commitment to the process. Before we listen to the calls, like, hey. Why aren't you doing this?

Right? We never actually asked someone, are you committed to following the process? Like so at first, he's like, do you know what it is? Right? After, like, you know why we say it this way.

And the next one is, are you committed to following the process? So we always stop. Like, for sure, they understood what. How well they understand and why, we're pretty hopeful that they understood the why. But we didn't have a written test prepared until very, very recently.

Alright. So we just finally got the written test prepared. Are you committed to following the process? The question we never asked. Right?

Because they demonstrated the behaviors. They were on the phones. They ran the appointments. Like, for sure, they're committed to the process. Nope.

That's just hope. Right? So the biggest mistake I see a lot of business owners make is, not getting their people on board to follow the process consistently. Because like I was saying earlier, even though I had a bad process, I followed it consistently. I was committed to it.

Right. And because I was committed to it, I knew how it was gonna go almost every time. Right? The unwillingness to follow a process consistently will yield inconsistent results. Right.

And, you know, our good friend Eric Brewer posted this recently. Right? Where he said, basically, some people, that tend to be extroverted are outstanding salespeople inconsistently. But introverted people who will follow process will be good consistently. We can run a business based off good consistently.

We cannot run a a business based off great inconsistently. Yeah.

Ian: Yeah. I think about that a lot about the idea of what makes the perfect salesperson. Is it an introvert or an extrovert? Where where should they stand in personality? And I think maybe it sounds like a little self serving.

My I'm kind of an ambivert Mhmm. Which I think I think is perfect for the role. Because the problem with an extrovert, I think, is that they're inclined to talk too much, make it about themselves, think that that that bonding is actually moving through the sales process. The main problem with introverts I see is principally being set up to be an introvert means tactically you'll probably be better. You're able to listen more rather than talk.

You're You're able to pay attention and ask the right questions and follow be committed to following a process because it's not about you, about you talking. I think one of the biggest problem salespeople face in general is burnout. Mhmm. And sometimes if you're enough of an introvert, I think of my dad, for instance, a pure introvert, that talking to people all day can actually just you just hate your job.

Steve: You just hate what you're doing. Exhausting.

Ian: It's exhausting. Yeah. And so I think people who can follow a process like an introvert, but aren't necessarily going to burn out Mhmm. From following the process, meaning talking to people all the time is probably the key. That's that's the the keystone point of, like, thinking about what is it that makes the personality of someone who'd be great in the sales role.

Steve: Yeah. I think the person that can reduce the need to talk. Like, that's it. If you could just reduce the need to talk, then you can't follow a process. But the need like, the classic example, you hear an argument, like, you gotta get your last word in.

You gotta get the last word in. Person needs to get the last word in. It's probably not gonna be very good in sales. Right. Right?

Because you have that need to get that these words. I was like, I can't go I can't walk away from this without saying this thing. Those people are gonna have the hardest time with us.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah. I'd say yeah. So you need to get the extrovert to be able to shut up. Mhmm.

And you need to get the introvert to be able to have a deep enough why and motivator to not burn out. It's kind of the sort of the balance of finding a Yeah. Right personality. Definitely. What would you say is the biggest misconception for them who's in a sales role?

Let's, like, say you're you're a salesperson. Their biggest misconception about sales as a whole? Like, what's their biggest mistake they're making?

Steve: I mean, at a high level, I think the activity and behavior is probably the biggest mistake because, you know, the more hours you actually do work, the more money you make. Maybe something else could be, you know, the the mindset. As I put this is probably the biggest one. It's the mindset that I'm good enough. You know, I posted something recently on Instagram, which was the Dunning Kruger effect.

And it has this curve, right, where you have this insane amount of confidence, an an insane, unreasonable amount of confidence. Right? And then you kinda crash in your confidence, as your confidence improves, and you go back up. And you have this thing as as we call this a peak amount of stupid. Right?

Like, you have unreasonable, confidence in yourself. And confidence is important. Like, I think we gotta have confidence. Right? But when I'm talking about unreasonable unreasonable for a salesperson, we expect all all salespeople to be, irrationally confident.

Right? But even beyond that. Right? And so the I have another friend, and we were texting, and he was at an event, where he listened to this guy who thought he was an amazing salesperson. Right?

And he he even talked about how great he was a salesperson, which, you know, you have to describe how good you are.

Ian: Probably not that good. For sure.

Steve: So he wanted to talk about how good he was at sales, and he gave his sales training. And it was not very good. And he commented to me. He was like, I'm I'm really disappointed because this guy told me he was a really good salesperson, and he's awful. Right?

And my comment to him was, like, you know, good people believe they're great. Great people believe they have room to improve. Yeah. Right? And I think it's that mindset.

Like, I'm pretty good. I don't need I don't I don't need to get better. And so I think if you're listening to this podcast right now, you're probably in the category as, like, I have room to improve, which is why you're great. Right? But if you're good, you're not gonna listen to this podcast because you would get it all figured out.

Right.

Ian: Yeah. A lot of salespeople think they they they've made a a couple sales and therefore, there's a lot of, bias based on well, if I did this one thing this one way and it worked, therefore, I should do it that way. But that's what worked rather than that person was motivated enough. You asked a better question earlier by accident, and now you're so committed and convinced that this part of the process is the way to do it even though that was suboptimal. But because you got a sale one time with something else, you're now so committed to this one thing.

I've seen that a lot with sales training.

Steve: Yeah. It's, I call this well, they bought it in spite of you, not because of you. Right. Right? And I call this Anton Walker effect, which is basically, like, back, you know, when I was in college, Anton Walker.

You know, I love the guy, Cybertron. Right? Number eight employee number eight for the Boston Celtics. The worst thing that could happen is he made a bad shot in the very beginning of the game. So, you know, his three pointer in the very beginning of the game meant he was probably gonna shoot the team out of the game, the rest of the game.

So the worst possible thing that can happen if you're a Salzuz fan is for Anton Walker to make his first three. Because then there's gonna be a whole bunch of threes going up between him and Paul Pierce. Because for those of you guys, you know, that care about basketball, like, him and Paul Pierce, like, revolutionized how he's a shot for a game. And that's the same thing in sales. Like, oh, I did this one thing and it worked really well, so I'm gonna keep doing it.

But is is that the reason why he got the sale or you just kinda believe that's the reason why you guys, why why you succeeded? The other other thing too is, like, the greatest misconception, I believe, for people getting into sales. So on the outside looking in is the extroverts are naturally better at sales. And we kinda made that joke earlier. We're judging people on social media.

They're MLM. Right? They're naturally better at getting sales in that they're walking billboards. Right? Everyone knows what they do, so they are top of mind conscious.

So they're getting super warm leads so they can close those sales because they're effective self marketers. They're not great salespeople. Right. Because more people know what they do, which is important. I think one failure a lot of us as salespeople do is we fail to let everyone know exactly what we do.

Right? So extroverts are better at letting everyone know, like, you know, you're the pump gas and you'll bump up someone like, hey. You know, they'll give you a business card. And, like, I'm in real estate. Right?

I was at I was at swim school with my kids, and this guy walks up to me. I'm wearing a kung fu shirt. Right? Because I just come from kung fu. I'm wearing a kung fu shirt.

And the guy's like, oh, you know, you do martial arts, start talking about this and that. You know? And he's like, oh, what's your phone number? Blah blah blah. I was like, okay.

Like, this guy seems really nice. I'll talk to him whatever. Seems kinda overly nice, but whatever. And afterwards, he's texting me back and forth. Right?

And he gives me a business card. And then as he's texting me, I was like, I just said, hey. You should probably know or what's your email address? Right? That's at steve@sendinghomes.com.

You should probably know I'm a licensed realtor. And the conversation went completely dark. Right? He was talking to me for only one reason, to add someone to add into his database. Right?

So the gift of gab Right. Means you're great at self marketing. So that will lead to more sales because that's a great thing to get the phones to ring, but does not mean you're a good salesperson. I think on the outside looking in, most people just think if you're an extrovert, you're good at sales.

Ian: Yeah. It's almost like treating the idea of selling to many is the exact same conversation as selling to one and not understanding the difference between talking to a crowd and being exciting at a party and getting one person to wanna take action. Yeah. There seems to be sort of a a disconnect there. I wanna I wanna shift for a second and ask you apart from, obviously, the financial gains, what aspects of sales do you find most rewarding?

Steve: The most rewarding part about sales is it's made me a better communicator, a more effective communicator, and that's helped tremendously within, leading an organization. You know? Understanding, willingness to listen what the people that are working in your business are telling you. If you're not good at sales, you might just kinda walk all over them, you know, and you might try to be a good leader and try to listen. But the tools we have to get someone to share more what's on their mind, to really understand what they're trying to tell you is really powerful because you want your people to feel like they're being heard, that they're appreciated.

Right? And you can't do that if you're not a good listener and you're not an effective communicator. And more importantly, it's made me a better, father and husband. The the jokes I make, you know, about, you know, my interactions with my kids, they're real. Right?

And they're having, creating psychological safety at home. So, yeah, creating psychological psychological safety at work, creating psychological safety at home. I wouldn't be able to do that if I didn't have these sales skills. Right? Because sales is so much human psychology and behavior.

There's a lot of human behavior at home that we can learn to modify our behavior, learn to ask questions the right way so that your kids won't just tell you, you know, how was school today? It was good, and that'd be the end of it. Now I can extract what was good about it. Tell me more about that. You know?

I can ask leading questions. I can just make labels. And by just labeling, hey. You know, it seems like you're having a really rough day. They feel like we're paying attention to them, and now they can speak freely.

Yeah. Whereas before, I was like, how how was it? It was good. Where do I go from here? Right.

Ian: I'll I've I've been watching, like, a a movie or a show or something with my wife, and I'll make a comment like, like, he shouldn't have said that to her. Now she's gonna review that. And she thinks, oh, you should, like, you should talk to people about being a a a great husband and, like, how the relationship work. And I'm thinking, like, it's just a sales skill. It's all I'm thinking.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Ian: I'm not saying that that necessarily makes you a better husband to say it that way. Just simply, that's how you get someone to open up in a sales conversation. I know that that works there because human interaction communication is exists everywhere. And if you're good at it to get someone to wanna spend a lot of money or sell their home for a discount, you're usually able more or less to apply it to other interactions as well.

Steve: If you're willing to do it. So that was the other thing too, though. Because even though I learned these skills, right, I wasn't using it in the office, and I wasn't using them at home. And it was like, why am I not doing this? And once I made a conscious effort to do it, now it's better.

So I was only doing it on sales, but not doing it in the office, not doing that at home. And so it took a moment of introspection to realize I should do this in other places.

Ian: Do you remember that moment of introspection? Do you remember what made you start doing it?

Steve: Yeah. I can say there was a moment where someone in our organization completely flipped out. Right? And a valuable key member flipped out, and I was listening to it. I was like, oh, I was clearly not doing a very good job of listening here.

Right? So then I started making a conscious effort, doing that. Honestly, I was probably sometime in 2019, 2020, and then, same thing at home. You know? Like, my wife said something, and I was completely dismissive.

You know? And looking back, I was like, if I woulda just actively listened there, I coulda saved myself a lot of heartache. Sure. Right? So it was just, you know, we call them after action reviews.

Right? Like, just like the military does. And we do it after action review after every sales call. Hey. If we have a bad situation, we do it after action review.

We do some introspection. How is that responsive for that outcome? Can I do them prove this right now to make sure that outcome doesn't happen again?

Ian: Yeah. When I'm coaching salespeople, I'd say that's one of the biggest hacks to get them better at sales faster is to just say, now you apply sort of an after action review to every aspect of your life. Yeah.

Steve: Try

Ian: and figure out why that went wrong, what you said wrong, what you could have done better in this other part that's not revenue is not on the line in this exact thing, but if you can start applying it outside of the conversation, it it actually becomes easier to apply it when revenue is on the line. So

Steve: And I actually do after action reviews with my kids when they screw up. You know? Like, hey. What happened? What did we learn from this?

How can we make sure this doesn't happen again? Right? So I had this conversation conversation with my kids. And then last week, Vivian, the middle child. Right?

So we're late for school. He said, why are we late why are we late for school this morning? Like, I got caught up talking to mom. So, okay. So what we're gonna do to make sure that doesn't happen again?

I was like, this is not the way it's supposed to go.

Ian: It's funny. They're they're they're picking up a little too early on the techniques.

Steve: Yeah. They're learning. It's great.

Ian: What's, in your sort of career right now in your in your or or if someone says, like, what do you do Mhmm. As it relates to sales role, how do you sort of describe yourself?

Steve: Man, this is pretty bad these days. Like like, what do you do? It's like, ah, well, you know, like I've

Ian: seen your Instagram profile. It's a lot of things.

Steve: Yeah. So, I mean, the thing I would say and most, how I identify as right now predominantly is, sales trainer. Yeah. And I think, you know, there's even though I'm a podcaster, I think the biggest way that we can help people is giving information on the podcast and then teaching people to get better at sales. Like, those are the two biggest things.

Now I've always been fascinated by entrepreneurship. Right? Business, capitalism. Right? Like, I've always been fascinated by that by that, and that does generate a lot of, revenue for a lot of people.

It changes changes their lives. And then within that entrepreneurship business role, sales is a subset that I didn't really geek out on until the last five years now. I can't believe it. Where I would say that is where I I spent a lot of mental power where I'm not working, and I'm thinking about it. I'll watch a movie.

I will hear a conversation. Right? I was having lunch with myself yesterday, and I kinda overheard this conversation on another side. I was like, oh, you guys said that differently. You know?

It's just, we just watched this, Warren Buffett, not Warren Buffett, opposite Warren Buffett, Bernie Madoff documentary, the exact opposite. Yeah. And, like, you're just like, oh, the way he raised money was he just pushed everyone away. Oh, you know, we don't need money out. But what what even qualifies you to invest in me?

And, look, if you wanna look at my books, well, maybe we're just not a good fit. Like, all he did was the takeaway. Takeaway sales. And everyone gave him a stupid amount of money. Right?

So but I can't help but just see human behavior in all these different situations and and taking that and improving our sales training.

Ian: Yeah. What would you say is the biggest hurdle for you professionally right now? Like, in terms of your sales trainer career, what's the biggest challenge for you?

Steve: So we have our annual planning on Monday. So I was thinking about this quite a bit yesterday. I would say the biggest challenge is still me. Right? So, you know, our focus for the last couple years has been, execution and accountability.

And I think I'm resigned to the fact now that I am just not the right person to hold people in this organization accountable. Right? It's been my biggest weakness forever. Right? And I would say my biggest struggle is holding people accountable to doing what they said they were gonna do.

The uncomfortable conversation. Sure. Right. And this might sound completely hypocritical. Right?

Earlier, we just said, like, you gotta do things that are uncomfortable. But I've done everything I think I can think of. It's not getting the results that we need. So I would say probably going back to hiring another coordination action officer like we had before. Got it.

Probably the biggest struggle.

Ian: And then strength wise, what are you do you feel like I'm incredibly confident in this part of what I'm doing as a sales trainer?

Steve: The most confident thing I would say is, you know, I went through and, like, wrote down, like, you know, superpowers with the unique ability and all these other, exercises to figure this out. It's learning something at a deep level and explaining those concepts in an understandable level, right, where anyone can understand it. So taking complex concepts and distilling it into understandable, anyone get it.

Ian: Yeah. At this point in your career, is there anything if you could I mean, I know, like you said, you wish. You don't regress the high pressure salespeople that you were sending out there. Is there anything you wish you if you could go back and make an adjustment, what would you have done differently?

Steve: Be a better salesperson. Right? I left so much money on the table over the years because marketing in 2023 is drastically different than marketing in 2012. Right. Right?

So, like, when I started doing my own PPC marketing, we buy houses, you know, sell my house fast, all these other things. I had so much opportunity there that I squandered. Right. Right? And look.

Here's the thing. I was super profitable the whole time, but I was good enough then to to make, you know, a decent living. But knowing what I know now, I should've been making millions a year. Right? No one know now.

Because I could've scaled our operation. I could've taught more people with an organization how to run an appointment effectively, starting off on what they're willing to accept versus what I'm willing to offer. Right? Because right now, everyone's focused on what I'm willing to offer, but we know margins are better if we start with with what you're willing to accept. If I can get you to say what you're willing to take first, not letting them think about it, like, drives me crazy, like, how much money I left on the table.

I mean, I promise you it's multiple millions of dollars. I believe it.

Ian: Yeah. I believe it. Yeah. So for someone listening to the podcast, if there were either from our conversation or just anything else you wanna add in, what if there were to think of sort of three takeaways Mhmm. To take away from this conversation?

Let's just say it's a salesperson in particular. Someone who's working in a sales role in some capacity. Maybe they're a sales leader

Steve: Mhmm.

Ian: But they're in sales in some way, shape, or form. What are the three takeaways that they should they should take away from from this conversation?

Steve: I would say, you know, first one is committing to follow the process. So having a tactic isn't good enough. Right? Like, committed commitment to following a process, I would say, is number one. And right behind that is number two.

But I would say right behind that is, you know, you gotta put yourself aside. And we talk about this in our sales training, you know, removing you from, you know, the meat bag. Right? So taking you yourself out of it and, you know, being the person that you need to be so that you can serve the person that's in front of you. That's number two.

Let's see. What's number three behind all that? Can't think of it off the exit right right right now based off our conversation today.

Ian: So from those two, let's just focus on the that sort of meat bag part. This idea of which I know is gonna be a I love this concept. It's always how I operate as well, but some people sort of struggle to

Steve: It's weird the first time we hear it.

Ian: Talk about it a little bit a little bit more. I mean, about how maybe someone who's this is their first time hearing any you know what you're talking about.

Steve: Sure. How

Ian: to think about that?

Steve: So if you think about, like, Grand Theft Auto. Right? We've all played Grand Theft Auto where, like, you're flame throwing people for absolutely no reason. Right? So you you you play in this this game.

You got a character that you're walking around. You're controlling this character. Right? Imagine when you're in the living room or you're on the phone, you're controlling the character, right, from a third person's point of view. Someone else is watching this interaction.

Right? So, like, right now, you and I are having a sales appointment. You're the prospect. I'm the salesperson. Person listening to this right now is observing this, right, from this conversation.

Be that third party, that third person observer running that's checking out the appointment you're running and see, observe how's the other person responding. Think to yourself, where am I in the sales process? Am I still in setting expectations, or am I in pain right now? Am I in money right now? But also being aware that if I didn't do a good job of setting expectations and the homeowner is talking about money and talking about motivation, that you don't continue the conversation until you fully finished setting the proper expectations.

Because if you don't, this appointment can go haywire. Right. So you gotta observe, like, you're a third person, that's watching this. And, again, the examples we've used is, Grand Theft Auto or a Puppeteer. Right?

You're just controlling this character. You are not you. You're controlling the person that's in front of the prospect.

Ian: It's really I I actually hadn't thought of it this way, and it goes back to a little bit more what you said at the start. It's about being objective. You know? Being able if you're not in your own head in the sales conversation, but you're a separate party viewing it, you can go, okay. Well, he or she, you

Steve: Mhmm.

Ian: Should have done this differently because you're able to be more objective. You're able to separate yourself from that from that moment. I always thought about it as a way of being like, oh, I would be afraid to ask that question. Mhmm. But that's not me there.

That's my avatar in controlling. So the same way I'm not gonna walk down the street and use a flame thrower at a bunch of people. That's an avatar doing that. But, okay, I could that way I can push and maybe ask a little bit more questions, but it also allows you to be more objective about running the process.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, just think about we watch sports. Right? Or screaming at the TV, watching the quarterback. Why did he miss that throw?

So you knew which throw you should have made. But he's in the heat of the moment. He's got someone breathing down his neck. Right? Like, someone's trying to hit him from the side as he's throwing the ball.

He's making a decision in the environment. But you, who is not attached to getting hit by a linebacker on a blitz, you see the right pass. Right? It's the same concept here. Right?

You gotta observe it objectively, not experience the heat of the moment.

Ian: Yeah. So yeah. That makes it makes a lot of sense.

Steve: Makes a

Ian: lot of sense. So that's making sure as a salesperson, you find a way to do that. And for the entrepreneur, for the business owner, not just learning a tactic and not just learning a process, but actually being committed to that process.

Steve: Being committed to it. It's the the the people that we attract in the sales. And there's no judgment on salespeople because I am the same way and you're the same way. Right. Right?

We generally are we have a if you look at predictive index, well, let's just look at this. Right? Generally speaking, if you're in sales, you're generally a higher d and a lower c. What does that mean? Higher d means you have a strong ego.

You're very competitive. Right? And you don't do really good being told what to do. Right? So that's the high d, but then what's the low c mean?

Low c means rules are for other people. Right? So, like, for example, someone asked me, like, why'd you do that? Like, we're not supposed to do that. I was like, yeah.

I know, but, like, that's for other people.

Ian: Right.

Steve: Rules don't apply to us.

Ian: It did the sign didn't say this means you. Right. Yeah.

Steve: Like, it's a good rule for society. Right. Just not for me. Just not for me. Right?

So this is who we attract in this in this industry. And so if that's the case, you don't like being told what to do, and you don't believe rules apply to you, then how do you stay committed to following a process? And, again, it has to go it goes back to remembering desired outcome. What is the desired outcome we want from our career in sales? And we want this desired outcome in career in sales, then you have to decide, I want this process because I want the results, and I will follow the process.

And and because of the win, not because I feel like I have to follow a process.

Ian: Love it. You mentioned that desired outcome, if you're thinking about Steve Trang in, 2033 oh, it's about to become 2034. You're on for. Well, sorry?

Steve: 2024.

Ian: Yeah. So I'm saying, so let's say it's ten years in the future.

Steve: In the future. Okay.

Ian: We're we're it's you ten years in the future. Okay. It's about to become 2034.

Steve: Okay.

Ian: I'm saying the exact same time ten years from now. So it's fancier way of saying ten years from now.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Ian: What would you want that team trying to be doing? What is your what is your day to day look like ten years from now?

Steve: Man, ten years from now? I can't It's

Ian: a long way away.

Steve: Yeah. I can't even drive limit. I can only think about what I want to happen within our our our sales training organization. I mean, I I would hope that by ten years from now, everyone that's working here today is retired. Right?

Like, that for me would be the desired outcome. Everyone here is financial freedom. And then we've made dramatic impact in a lot of people's lives. You know? Maybe it's like, you know, for better or for worse, a lot of people look at Grant Cardone as a preeminent sales trainer.

Mhmm. Right? I would like to be able to supplant that conversation where, like, yeah. You know, this is the process. You know, it's kinda funny every once in a while.

I was like, yeah. I pulled a steep train on. I was like, well, I mean, I'm not sure that's the right way to put it, but okay. Right? So I would say probably, you know, some sort of inspirational, inspiration for salespeople on how to run an effective sales process where you're not doing something to somebody, but you're doing something with somebody.

Yeah. So that I guess in ten years, that's what I my hope would be. But day to day, let's see. I mean, at that point, Emily's 16. Like, she's getting she's in the middle of high school.

I don't know. I because what we talked about is when she's 18 and she's out of the house is probably traveling more. But, yeah, I I can't so far I can't articulate that vision because right now, I'm so focused on what I wanna see our business do in '24.

Ian: Yeah. We got an annual meeting in a few days. It's hard to think about that. Where the

Steve: and that's where the husband at.

Ian: Fair enough. Okay. So then for someone listening who's maybe actually not in sales yet, maybe they're younger, maybe they're in a, hourly job, and they're inspired by your journey, inspired by the stuff they learn on this podcast, and they wanna get into sales.

Steve: Mhmm.

Ian: What's a piece of advice you would give them thinking about starting to explore this career?

Steve: If you're thinking about this career, I mean, I think, a, like, do a little bit of homework. Understand, like, it's not the I'll I'll break it down to the out out, outside perception of our industry. Right? Say for realtor, for example. Everyone thinks that realtors just have happy hours and drink mai tais Right.

Right, and are always traveling. They work really hard. Yeah. Right? And then you look at, like, pharmaceutical sales or medical sales.

What do we think of them at? Think of them as they're hanging out at the country club. They're hanging out with doctors. They're playing golf all day. This is not what sales is.

Right. This is the best part of sales. This is not what sales is. So I think just doing a bit of research is understanding that sales is not something that's easy and you just walk in and you crush it. Sales requires a lot of self mastery, a lot of discipline, a lot of disappointment and rejection, but it's one of the best things you'll ever do because you'll make way more money being good at sales than you can than almost any other career that doesn't require natural talent.

Right?

Ian: Yeah. Right? I mean, yeah, you can make

Steve: a lot of money more you could make that Ohtani money. It was amazing. Right? So you can make sports money. You can make, like or you got athlete money, professional entertainers money, like, all the other stuff.

It requires a lot of natural talent.

Ian: Yeah. Let's assume the people listening are not on the path to Yeah. Being an athlete.

Steve: Yeah. Like, I made a joke this morning. I was texting one of the guys. They he got hurt. Like, hey.

We need you healthy because, like, you're, you know, you're important to the like, you're one of the top guys in basketball. Right? And then, like, for me, I'm I put myself in top 15, right, on the basketball court, right, of 10. So, for a person that, you know, doesn't have natural athletic or natural, singing or whatever abilities, I don't think there's many careers as better than sales for creating the lifestyle that you want.

Ian: I wholeheartedly agree. It's one of the one of the pieces behind this this podcast in general is getting people inspired to get better at it. Because I find a lot of people might maybe get into it. Like you said, they're attracted to the, like, 2% of the time, the Instagram post of the role rather than what actually got you to being able to be in that position to begin with. And they don't achieve that result in three weeks, in three months, you know, in a year.

And therefore, they've resigned themselves to not going on that journey of sort of self improvement and self mastery as a salesperson, as trying to get better at having conversation with people and getting people to take action. And therefore, they actually never achieved the results that got them in the first place. So I want that to be an inspiration.

Steve: Yes. It's it's a three to five year plan. It's not a three to five weeks plan.

Ian: Right. Well, this has been great. I'd say, lastly, I mean, where you might as well shout it out. Where are the listeners on this podcast or the viewers on YouTube? Where else they can reach you and where should they should look for your content?

Steve: So outside of closemoresales.com, I would say, you know, on Instagram at steve dot trang, Real Estate Disruptors are is our real estate podcast. Yeah. I would say, you know, so Real Estate Disruptors on YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, and then, you know, our community, salesdisruptors.com. It's, you know, one of the most exciting things that we're working on because we we are bringing sales training that's super expensive to the masses Yeah. At $97 a month.

Like, I'm so excited about that. So but, yeah, I would say those are the places to find us find me.

Ian: Awesome. Yeah. Alright. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. This then thanks for your time, Steve.

Steve: Thanks. Thank you. This has

Ian: been the Close More Sales podcast. I'm Ian Ross.