Kyle Wyloge Shares How He’s Wholesaling 6-8 Houses Per Month and Keeping One as a Rental

Steve Trang: Hey everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's special episode of real estate disruptors. Today, we have Kyle Wildesh with buying AZ homes, another juggernaut in a Phoenix market. And he's gonna share how he's been quietly wholesaling six to eight houses a month and keeping one or two as rentals. If this is your first time tuning in, I am Steve Trang, broker and owner of Stunning Homes Realty, founder of the Offer Fast Homes app, the only MLS for off market wholesale properties.

And I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires. So if you wanna join me in that mission, let's connect on Instagram at steve dot trang. If you're excited for today's show, please give me a wave. Give me a thumbs up. And as a friendly reminder, I do not charge a dime for the show.

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And if you can write what you like about the show, that would be even better. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Kyle to answer. You ready? Yep. Alright.

So first question is, what got you into real estate?

Kyle Wyloge: I got into real estate in 2005.

Steve: I'm

Kyle: a native out here, born and raised, and graduated high school 2005. Knew that I did not want to go to college, and real estate seemed like the easiest thing to do.

Steve: He just skipped college.

Kyle: Yeah. Didn't even try.

Steve: Nope. Alright. So 2005. So that's before

Kyle: Before the crash, tail end. I tell people it was like, the moment on the roller coaster when you're on the very, very top and you don't really feel like you're going up anymore, but you haven't fully started the decline. And so that that was October 2005 is when I got my license. Gotcha.

Steve: And you just did?

Kyle: Buyer seller. So spent the first three years of the business, buyer seller transactions. You know, you were in the business around that time.

Steve: 2007.

Kyle: Yeah. That's when inventory started to really build up. So there were a lot of houses on the market. There were a lot of agents in this space because 2001 through 2005, there was a big run up. So everybody had their real estate license.

Houses were trading super high, super fast. And so trailing that we had a huge amount of inventory on the market. Not as many buyers. Loans started to get harder to get during that period of time. And so, you know, I was 18, 19, 20 years old trying to convince people to use me as a real estate agent.

And so, yeah, just doing buyers. And then, I actually got into the REO game for for a quick minute.

Steve: Did you?

Kyle: Mhmm. Oh, I

Steve: had no idea. So I can't even picture you. You know, I've known you for some time, but I didn't know you back then.

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: I can't even imagine you working with buyers and sellers. Yeah. What was that experience like?

Kyle: You know, I had to do it. It was a a means to an end. I knew I wasn't gonna do it forever, but, you know, I I've told people this before. I I had a kid really young. If you wanna find motivation, have a kid at 19.

You really don't you don't have an opt failure isn't much of an option at that point. You you you gotta work, and you gotta make it work, and you have

Steve: to be successful. Gotcha. Okay. So then 2005, you're licensed. You're doing the deals.

And then you transitioned to REO?

Kyle: Yeah. So, I actually went and worked for an REO agent. So, he had an account with Countrywide at the time, which was still a bank back then, and Chase and Bank of America. Mhmm.

Steve: And Was

Kyle: it Pete? No. This was Steve Horn.

Steve: Oh, okay. Who has

Kyle: since moved on to Texas.

Steve: Right.

Kyle: And so I came on. I was kind of his right hand man and that's that's that's what got me valuing properties. A lot of the the people that are in the space today, they probably don't even know what the term BPO means. Mhmm. And I used to get to the office every day around 04:30 in the morning.

I would print a list of 30 properties I was driving that day. I would drive all 30 properties, go back to the office, and then I would do a BPO on 30 different properties.

Steve: So for people that don't know what BPO is? Broker price opinion. It's basically a cheap appraisal.

Kyle: It was a cheap appraisal for the bank. I was getting 10 to $20 per BPO. So I was doing five to six days a week, 20 to 30 a day, and then listing the the inventory with Steve. We that that's what really got me ready for the investment side of the business because I was having to take a look at an asset in current condition and then compare it to the market. Because every BPO, you would have to have three comparable properties, and value that asset for the bank and then they would tell you if they approve the list price or not.

Right. And that's really got what what got me set up for for valuing real estate really fast.

Steve: So when were you doing the REO business?

Kyle: September. Okay. Really late o eight, two thousand nine.

Steve: And this is before you were at the auctions?

Kyle: Correct. Before I was at the auctions.

Steve: Okay. So you're working with buyers and sellers Mhmm. Transition to listing properties for banks

Kyle: Yep.

Steve: And then Auctions. Auctions.

Kyle: Yeah. Because I

Steve: I mean, I know you were at the courthouse. You were you had a bid service and all that good stuff. So let's talk about the transition from going for listing bank properties to auctions.

Kyle: Yeah. So Maricopa County, we were a non judicial state with regards to foreclosures. So, all the properties were getting foreclosed on at the courthouse. And back then, we were seeing 80 sell to third parties, you know, sometimes a couple 100 a day we're selling. So the way that it would work is that my company would publish a list of properties every single afternoon sometime between two and 5PM.

It was an Excel spreadsheet. We would publish a list of properties. We had some formulas built into Excel that would kind of prioritize the next day sales for us. So there'd be, call it, 300 properties going to sale on a Tuesday. Monday at three in the afternoon, my company would generate a list, and then it would pick the top 30 to 50.

And then I would manually go through those 30 to 50 every single night between, you know, six and 9PM, put together my ten to fifteen, and then we had property drivers that would go out the next morning between six and nine in the morning, record videos, take pictures, get us a drive report is what we called it. And so those BPOs that I was doing really prepared me for the auction days. Right. And my company, we were not big by any means. We were buying two to five a week on average, for about three years.

You know, there are some weeks we bought seven or eight, but on average, we were two to five. But we we weren't massive by any means.

Steve: What was the name of your company?

Kyle: I actually ran out just under my brokerage. Yeah. So I I you know, the problem was a lot of bid services back then, they weren't licensed brokerages Mhmm. But they were representing clients, acquiring properties. So the Department of Real Estate actually came down on a lot of those companies.

So we decided just to open up a brokerage. So did that in early two thousand and ten.

Steve: Well, before then, you're over at Bill's office for REMAX. Yep. I'm sure he was loving that.

Kyle: Yeah. No. Not at all. He encouraged me to start my own brokerage.

Steve: Oh, really?

Kyle: Yeah. Because he was pretty much like, hey. Get get out of here. Because we were we were running all the transactions through the brokerage, and they they just weren't your typical file. You know?

It wasn't an agency disclosure and contract and inspection reports. Yeah. No. It was just literally a bid receipt. Yeah.

And so we ran it all through the brokerage, and it it was all fine, and we never had any issues. It was just they they were very fast moving transactions. If if people aren't familiar, you would bid on a property on a Tuesday, you had to pay for it on Wednesday. So it's just very fast moving.

Steve: Yeah. So for you guys that don't know, like, when foreclosures are big or when auctions are big and auctions are still around today, but you gotta do 10,000 nonrefundable Yeah. Today Yep. And the rest The next day. By 5PM tomorrow

Kyle: Yep.

Steve: Or you lost your $10,000. Correct.

Kyle: Yeah. So you had to have a $10,000 cashier's check. At the time of the winning bid, you had to sign it over to the trustee and then figure out how to pay for the rest of it within twenty four hours. Again, in the I was twenty three years old at this point in time.

Steve: Yeah. So you were acquiring properties or you were focused on the bid service? What was your focus at that time?

Kyle: The most of what we bought were joint ventures. So I would go out and raise money, put together an entity, and I would then represent our entity acquiring properties. We did the bid service more as an ancillary business, but the the main service was there for for myself to to buy, and flip. Gotcha.

Steve: So because I know, like, at that time I wanna say, like, posted properties, and I can't remember some of the other big ones, but they were charging 2,000 to 5,000

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: A pop. So, like, you're doing, I guess, two to five a week.

Kyle: I was doing two to five a week. We kept 90% of the inventory, though Yeah. For our for ourselves to renovate and resell. Posted properties, they were buying 30 a day at 2 to $5,000 a rip. Yeah.

They had a massive operation, but, most of what we bought were were joint venture deals.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. So and this is your this is prepping you for the wholesale world or you're already wholesaling at this time?

Kyle: I wouldn't say I was wholesaling at that time. You know, there were plenty of times when you would buy a property on a Tuesday, and then the next day someone would approach you and say, hey, do you wanna resell this property? Mhmm. We did plenty of that. So it wasn't wholesaling in the sense that we were getting properties under contract or buying properties and then putting them out to the masses.

It was more of the small circle of guys who were going to the auctions. Maybe someone, didn't know a property was selling or they were gonna bid on it and they couldn't drive it in time, stuff like that. Yeah. But it it certainly started to build my network of investors for Arizona.

Steve: Gotcha. And around that time, you said when when when when did you start going to auctions?

Kyle: 10/1112. I bought my last property at auction in March 2013, and then I didn't buy anything actually until last month. I randomly bought one.

Steve: And so one of the things that we always heard about was there was a good old boys network.

Kyle: Mhmm. Like, if

Steve: you wanna buy at the trustee sale, they will bid you up to get you out of there. Yeah. Did you run into that?

Kyle: Uh-huh. Did it happen to me or did it did it happen?

Steve: Happen to you or did you oh, I guess both. Did you

Kyle: get to anybody else? Yes. Yes and yes. Yeah. Because there were guys you know, again, I didn't go there till pretty late in the game.

But by the time I was there, there were guys that had been bidding there since the late nineties. Yeah. So, you know, they didn't like that there was a big rush of of new people coming in. But by the time I entered, there were plenty of companies around that that didn't happen too much. There were one off scenarios where, you know, guys would bid each other up just for the sake of it.

But, it wasn't as big as it was. Probably in 02/1989 is when that was happening a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So you're do and when you're bidding, did you stop because Blackstone came in? Because that's when we stopped buying at the trust sales. It was like Blackstone was paying retail for everything of the options.

Kyle: Yeah. So what we were doing was everything that we were buying was for to buy and renovate. So then when you had these large funds that came in that were funded with hundreds of millions of dollars, they could they could bid you up on everything because they were buying them for rental purposes. So there just wasn't a spread out here anymore. At that point in time, me and my two business partners were trying to figure out, you know, what direction do we want to go.

And we decided to look at other states, but we didn't want to do anything where we take a full day of travel. So, essentially, we were looking at Southern California, Nevada, Colorado, Utah, and New Mexico. At that point in time, I don't know if you remember or not, but Nevada actually issued a stay on foreclosures. So they

Steve: weren't I wonder that.

Kyle: Yeah. They actually did the state wasn't allowing any foreclosures. So Nevada was out. That was a, like, a two to three year period where they weren't foreclosing. So we ended up going to Denver, Colorado, and, we bought and resold about 60 homes in the Colorado market.

And, actually, we ended up I ended up bringing a couple different funds up to that market because what I noticed was we were still buying properties in Colorado in the high one, so, you know, $1.60 to $2.20 range, as to where there there weren't there weren't the buy and hold funds. So I was actually working with the buy and hold fund, out of California. They were in seven or eight markets at the time, and they were pretty heavy buyers in Arizona, and I sold them quite a few properties. Yeah. And, I was dealing with their regional manager, brought them out to Colorado, and I was only in Colorado three to five days a month, but brought them out there, toured them around, the five counties surrounding Denver.

And at that point in time, I had a realtor who was working for me up there, a Keller Williams agent. And, we convinced them to start to at least look at the market. And, hey, you know, I think I think your the returns that you're gonna get here are actually better than Phoenix because in Phoenix, there were seven or eight, really large buyers out there or out here, and and there weren't any in Denver. And, every market that this specific fund went into, they set up a brokerage. So all their acquisitions and management were in house.

And somehow, I don't even really know how, but we convinced them to not set up a brokerage. And so between myself and my assistant in Scottsdale at the time and my one agent in Colorado, we represented, this fund on just under 400 purchases

Steve: Wow.

Kyle: In under thirteen, fourteen months. And my agent in Colorado, he he never got dressed. I mean, he he was sitting in his pajamas all day writing offers. And

Steve: I mean, it works.

Kyle: It was a quick run, but

Steve: it was

Kyle: a, yeah, it was a fun, good run.

Steve: Gotcha. So then when did you start actively wholesaling?

Kyle: Direct to seller. Direct to seller in Arizona was 2014. So I think I entered that a little bit sooner than than most people. It was late two thousand fourteen. Really started it in '15.

Didn't really know how we were gonna get properties or what to do. I knew I didn't wanna do pay per click advertising. At that point in time, I I still owned the brokerage, so we were already using Mojo for our dialing system. So we thought, well, you know, we're calling people trying to get their listings, doing circle prospecting. Maybe we can see if people want to just get a cash offer.

Then in mid two thousand fifteen, one of my agents said, hey. I've got a guy who I think would be a good sales rep. So I met up with him. He has door knocked and sold something, alarm systems, DISH network, some TV service, you know, what are those old people phones? I don't remember the name of the Do I want the bracelets?

No. Those phone those phones with the big keypads on them.

Steve: Oh, okay.

Kyle: Jitterbugs. Yeah. He sold something in 42 states. Mhmm. Mhmm.

And, that was mid two thousand fifteen. And I said, hey. You know, I don't think anybody door knocks to try to buy real estate, so let's let's go that route. Mhmm. And he asked me, you know, what what would be successful?

And I was like, honestly, man, if we buy one house a month, I think that would just be crazy. Yeah. And, in the first year, we did 82. And he built his big thing was, these these alarm companies and and solar companies would fly them out to Random City, Mississippi. He would build up a door knocking team for them, then they'd fly them to Tennessee and just all over the place.

So his specialty was kind of recruiting younger kids, getting them built up to do the door knocking system, going out door knocking and selling. And it was I mean, in '15, '16 and '17, it was just I was still dumbfounded that door knocking was was getting us good deals.

Steve: Oh, yeah. It's crazy because you and I, we when we when I moved in to my my, brokerage suite, like, you know, I started Stent Homes Realty two thousand thirteen.

Kyle: Mhmm. And I was

Steve: like, alright. I found this perfect location. It's gonna be great. And then I move in, and I look across, like, freaking momentum's right over here. Yeah.

My office is right next to Kyle's. It's like, ugh. This sucks.

Kyle: Lucky guy.

Steve: So alright. So you were doing the door knocking thing

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: In 2013 or fourteen, fifteen, sixteen.

Kyle: Still do it.

Steve: But yeah. Still do it. Yeah. And then so you're you're you're tying these up, and that's when you're wholesaling them.

Kyle: That is when I was wholesaling. Yeah. And I was still flipping at the time too. You know, the I got really burnt out on flipping because between 02/1013, October '14, between Arizona and Colorado, we bought and renovated and sold over 600 houses. So now I just I can't stand flipping.

It's just Might

Steve: have been a science at

Kyle: that point.

Steve: Yeah. It was.

Kyle: It was just it was still a headache. I mean, you're still managing crews. You're still dealing with contractors. And it it just I just got burned out on it. I just did a lot of it.

Yeah. So yeah. In in fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, we were doing, still doing some flipping, but mainly whole wholesaling at that time.

Steve: Yeah. And you do something a little bit different because, you know, we're all in the Phoenix market

Kyle: Mhmm. And

Steve: we all do pretty well.

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: But your fees are is higher Mhmm. Than most other people's fees.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: What would you attribute that to?

Kyle: We don't have a lot of competition on our doors. You know, if if somebody's calling a list of ninety day lates Mhmm. You're probably not the only one. Especially if you're in the Maricopa County, you're probably one of a 100 people that are calling them. Mhmm.

We door knock in neighborhoods that are you know, we buy a lot of really rough houses. I know some some people say they buy rough houses. Like, we've we deal with really, really rough stuff. I mean, we were on ABC one time for a property that we bought.

Steve: Yeah. Nate was telling me about that.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: Kyle, hero, local hero. Yeah. And I was like, wow.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: They're really desperate for news.

Kyle: Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: I mean, the house

Kyle: the house was half burnt down. It was a meth house. I mean, the doors were held up with, like, boards and nails. It was it was really bad. So we buy really, really rough inventory.

Steve: So why were you on the news on that one? I never even got to watch the video.

Kyle: So we were dealing with the seller. They ended up, not selling us the house. They just kinda sat on it. I was actually watching, like, game five of the NBA finals. This was two or three years ago.

I don't remember when. And, there was a news story. It was about a property in the West Valley where, the neighbors had actually set up cameras just focused on this one property because there were guys showing up with hammers breaking windows, dogs. There were in one given day, I think there were like 47 cars that visited the house. There were people using the bathroom all over the front yard.

And so the reason that these neighbors set up cameras was like, hey, we need to get these guys out of the neighborhood. Mhmm. So they got ABC fifteen to do a story on it. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm pretty sure I've been in that house. And so I text my my guy, Andrew, and I'm like, hey.

Is this watch the news. Check this out. He's like, yeah. We we dealt with him. So I said, alright.

Call him. So the next morning we called him. We're like, hey. Here's the deal. You've already been dealing with us.

We're gonna give you a good offer on the house. You you essentially have to sell. Like, you're gonna get forced to sell now. So we end up driving to the the guy's rehab facility that he was at, bought that house, and then the neighbors were, like, so thankful. Mhmm.

They ended up talking to ABC fifteen. They said, hey. This guy's buying the property. So then ABC fifteen did a did a story on us about it. Yeah.

It was kind of a funny one.

Steve: Alright. So that's a rough house.

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: What are some other examples?

Kyle: Burn down properties. So we deal a lot with properties that have fires. We deal a lot we actually get a lot of referrals from, what is it, the Arizona I can't remember the the department. I mean, I can't remember the name of it. Properties where you have someone living in the property and they shouldn't be.

I mean, we we've had houses where bathtubs are filled with animal feces. We've had properties where there's dozens of dead cats all over the place. So we deal a lot with that, a lot with burned down properties. We deal with a lot of probate. So we get a lot of people who are out of state who will reach out to us and just say, hey.

We did, you know, my mom was

Steve: a hoarder.

Kyle: She passed away. Go Go look at the house. I mean, I've I've had houses so bad that I couldn't physically go in, and the smell was so bad. That's only happened a few times.

Steve: How have how did they reach out to you? Right? Like, what were you doing where they reach out to you in a probate situation?

Kyle: So the probate situations, those were direct. We were calling them direct. So on on the probate ones. But we get we actually this is one thing that was really weird to me too is in the real estate industry on the retail side, like, you work for referrals. Like, you do you want referrals because, you know, referral listing, there's not a lot of cost into it.

Right? We get a lot of referrals like from, hey, you bought my neighbor's house, hey, you bought my aunt's house. You know, we were, I think, one of the first groups in Arizona that really pushed post possessions. So we would buy a property and say, hey, you can live here for free for sixty days. Like no charge, no hold back.

We'll we'll pay you all upfront and you can stay in the house for sixty days. I think that got us a lot of referrals. Now I think a lot of guys now are doing the the post possession thing, but we don't charge for it.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So door knocking has been huge. Mhmm. And then at some point, you started cold calling.

Kyle: Yeah. So door knocking was how we first well, we started off cold calling, then we transitioned to door knocking, then we transitioned to both. Mhmm. Cold calling has has been really good. You know, in the last couple years, a lot of guys have gotten into the industry, so there's a lot more competition.

But when we first started doing it, we were we were getting a lot of a lot of doors on on calling. The the big thing with cold calling is, you know, a lot of people are worried about the message. They're worried about the script. My personal opinion, it's all timing. I I really do think that it's just all timing.

It kind of doesn't matter what you say. If you say something along the lines of, like, hey. I'm gonna pay cash for your house and I'll give you a free post possession, that's really all the script needs to be. I think people are over I think they're too worried about what should I say. Just you just gotta be in front of enough people enough times.

Steve: Right.

Kyle: I mean, we'll talk to people for years before they're ready to sell. Really? Oh, yeah. And then we'll talk to other people consistently month after month after month, and then one of my guys will skip calling them for three months and they sold to somebody else. Well, they just they called that month.

You didn't. Yeah. So I I think it's a matter of just staying in front of people.

Steve: Yeah. And I remember there's one thing you shared with me before was that some of your biggest reps as well is when you're door knocking a foreclosure Mhmm.

Kyle: And

Steve: then you're hitting that house that no one else is calling.

Kyle: Yeah. So a lot of guys target knock. They'll go out to a neighborhood and say, alright. These are the eight houses that we're gonna buy based on these, stress indicators. Mhmm.

We will go out to a neighborhood. And when I say we, my door knocking team currently is seven guys. So they'll go out to a neighborhood, and they know of those seven or eight properties that everybody's going after, but they're literally door knocking the entire square mile. And when they door knock a a square mile, they're also leaving a flyer at every single door. Mhmm.

So a lot of times, like I was saying, we get properties where 10 guys might be targeting one two three Main Street, nobody's going after 124 Main Street. We just happen to leave them a flyer or door knock them, and we buy the property.

Steve: Gotcha.

Kyle: So that that's one thing I'd recommend to people is, you know, spot knocking is fine, but I I think doing it the massive way is the way to go.

Steve: So if you're gonna door knock a neighborhood or door knock these specific houses

Kyle: Hit the whole neighborhood.

Steve: Just flyer the are are you door knocking the whole neighborhood or you're fliering the neighborhood?

Kyle: They'll do both.

Steve: They'll do both.

Kyle: Yeah. So, you know, the other thing too is that Arizona, you know, June, July, August, September, it's a 115 degrees out. Like, nobody's door knocking. So my guys will go out and door knock. And I think I truly think that's why we get good deals.

There's a lot of guys who are just, you know, it's too hot to door knock. Alright. That's fine. You

Steve: guys give them, like, ice packs like a Chick fil A?

Kyle: We actually have those, they're these towel rag things that, like, stay super cold for hours on end. But, yeah, no no joke. They'll they'll literally they'll wrap their neck in it.

Steve: So once you see it, like, when you're watching, like, ESPN late at night?

Kyle: Golf and, like, golf yeah. Golf guys. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So cool. What were some I mean, we talked about your journey from where you weren't until we got to where you are today. What were some struggles along the way?

Kyle: Struggles along the way, I think, you know, real estate's been good for the last four years. Mhmm. It's pretty much been a hockey stick curve up. I think what people need to realize is that the market can change very quick. Yeah.

So, you know, struggling in 06/07/1989 was, you know, our inventory. I think it hit, like, 50,000 active listings at one point in time.

Steve: We were at 56,000 and change.

Kyle: Right.

Steve: Like, I think in 2009. Yeah. So when I bought my house in 2006, there were literally 2,300 houses for sale Mhmm. Right in the MLS. Yep.

And then that quickly changed. And then went to the other end of the spectrum Yeah. Where there were 56,000 homes Yeah. For sale in MLS.

Kyle: So, you know, the struggle back then was you would have one buyer and you were showing them 60 houses because there were just more and more inventory. It just kept building up. So that was a big struggle. But I I think, just transitioning. I think people need to be ready to transition on a dime.

I think you have to be. And, you know, when times are good, people kind of forget about the bad times. But I'm very fortunate. I'm I'm grateful that I got into the industry when it was tanking because I think if I would have you know, a lot of people that got in in 2003, they were out by '6. There

Steve: were so many I got in in 2007. There were so many people that were leaving. Like, you could just see them walking by you as you're walking in.

Kyle: And, you know, I I think I think in the last twelve to twenty four months, we've started seeing what we were seeing in 2003, which is just this massive influx of agents, which is like, hey. This is super easy. And same with wholesalers. It's super easy. And it it has been.

It's been very, very easy. But, yeah, I mean, some of the struggles were just transitioning from, you know, doing the REO business and then that dried up. I mean, there were just kinda no more REOs. And then it was the trustee sales, and then you had all these large funds that came in. I was like, well, I'm not gonna buy anything here.

Steve: Yeah. That's a shift.

Kyle: And then it was, alright, we're going Colorado. And then same thing, a lot of the funds went there. And then it was so it was just kind of always pivoting and and being aware that whatever you're doing right now probably isn't gonna last forever. No.

Steve: It's definitely not gonna last. And that's one of the big takeaways for me. And I've always been mindful of right when I got licensed 2007 was that I got in right around the time where REMAX two thousand just closed their doors.

Kyle: Yep.

Steve: Right? And we're talking seven locations, 10 locations, whatever it was. 100 cities. And you showed up, and doors were chained. Yep.

Title companies were chained. Yep. Right? You had you had houses that you that someone had bought or got qualified for the loan, and money was at title, and then it was pulled back. Yep.

Kyle: Wasn't closing.

Steve: Yep. Wasn't closing.

Kyle: Commission checks, bouncing. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So you and I have gone through that crap. So you you think that some of these guys that are having a really good time right now may not be prepared?

Kyle: I would I would change it from may not, and they're for sure not. Yeah. And I'm not saying that that's gonna happen. I mean, I I don't think we're gonna see a crash like what we saw. We're definitely

Steve: not gonna see a crash like that.

Kyle: Recession's different. We're not gonna

Steve: see a crash like that.

Kyle: There it is gonna change. And I I just think a lot of the guys that got into it in the last twenty four months I mean, you know, I I deal with some wholesalers that they don't know how to value real estate, but they just know that if they get something under contract somewhere in this price range, they're probably gonna be able to make some money on it. And that's just not a sustainable business. Yeah. It's not.

Steve: So somewhere along the way, we got connected in a in a mastermind with a title company in in Tempe. And we would talk about, you know, real estate, whatever. And you're like, hey. I've got this other idea, this other thing I'm working on. Yeah.

Kyle: I

Steve: was like, that's just another distraction. Yeah. Let's talk about that distraction. Yeah. How's that worked out?

Kyle: Good. So in 02/2010, Arizona passed the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act. The governor immediately sued the state to put a stay on it. And then in 2011, I was actually at my gym at the time. I was talking to a guy and he ended up he was an attorney and I sat down with him just to talk just about some business stuff.

And he said, you know, I really want to get into marijuana. I don't I don't really know anything about it. But I I just I really want to get into it. And he's like, well, I'm putting together a group. I thought, well, shoot.

I'm I'm all in. Met with some of the other partners and or, you know, not even partners at the time, just the guys that were like kind of interested. And so 2011, we decided, hey, let's make a run at this thing. And we applied for a few licenses in Arizona. We tried to get three.

We got two. And then opened up one of them in Tempe Mhmm. And just kind of slowly grew that. And that company actually went public a year ago last week. So it's been public for just over twelve months now.

And it's grown to be one of the largest, they're called MSOs, multi state operators, in the nation. Yeah. They have over 200 licenses. I'm not involved with the operations anymore. I haven't been since early two thousand seventeen, but I was pretty heavily involved in 11/2015, I was very involved.

So I was traveling between here and Nevada because we expanded Nevada. While I was still involved, we expanded from Arizona, Nevada, Maryland, Pennsylvania. And then in 2017, we took over another company. At that point in time, most of the original founders kind of stepped out. There were about three guys that still stayed involved with it.

Mhmm. The only person who's a original founder that's still there is a CEO. Yeah. But, yeah, they've since mid two thousand seventeen, it's grown just massively.

Steve: Yeah. So that distraction worked out for you well in your favor. It did. Wish I had accepted your offer Yeah. To invest in it.

Kyle: Yeah. You know, it was a different climate back then. I mean, the the DEA was still busting doors down. Yeah. You know, the the outlook on it from the government back then was very different than it is now.

Mhmm. So, you know, we were back then, even though we were abiding by state laws, there were still federal laws that obviously supersede the state laws that, you know, were acting within Arizona guidelines, still would have put us in prison for a minimum of twenty years. Yeah. And that and that was the decisions we had to make. We sat at, you know, tables and said, you know, are we gonna do this?

And Yeah. We decided to, and it paid off. Well, I

Steve: remember, like, some of that conflict. Right? Because when they passed that legislation I mean, I I had a client who was trying to buy a warehouse Mhmm. So he can grow.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: And I remember getting involved in it. I was like, man, I hope we get this license because just me selling that warehouse alone, that's a $30,000 commission.

Kyle: Yeah. You know?

Steve: But see A lot of industries or a lot there was a lot of a lot of good things economically happening

Kyle: Oh, yeah. Because Because of the industry. Yeah. Huge. But I mean, we couldn't even find landowners and and building owners that would wanna work with us because Why

Steve: you had to buy them?

Kyle: Yeah. Because at that point in time, even if you were just the landlord renting, you were renting to a federally illegal business. Right. And even to this day, as we sit here in 2019, it is federally illegal, what we do. But Right.

If you know, the government's kinda turned an eye to it.

Steve: I remember every time we were looking at leases, it was like, hey. Will they be okay with this? And we asked them, and the answer was always no.

Kyle: Absolutely not. Yeah. And then the ones that would, it was like, alright. Yeah. Market rent's $3 a foot.

Yeah. You can have it for 15 a foot. Alright. Well, it's our only option, so here we go.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So what what were some lessons you learned along the way in building that that could apply to your business today?

Kyle: You know, in real estate, I think, for the most part, it their real estate agents aren't known as the best business owners. Mhmm. You know, there there are some great business owners in the space, but I'd say for the masses, they're not really business owners.

Steve: Right.

Kyle: You know, I didn't go to college, so I I just kinda learned along the way. Going with those guys, I mean, we had, guys that own commercial construction companies, law firms. So I I was the youngest in the group by a decade. So I got to learn from a lot of guys who had built successful businesses. And we approached it not as like, hey, let's go get high and try to sell weed.

It was like, alright, we want to build this thing to be to be a massive business. And we were looking at it as like the Coors Coors business coming out of prohibition. You know, it was like, alright, it's still kind of illegal, but but if we do this as a business, fast forward a couple a couple years and it this could be pretty legitimate. So learned a lot about growth, learned a lot about dealing with partners because there were, there were five of us originally. I'd say that one of the biggest things I learned was was pick your lane and stay in your lane.

You know, a lot of times within partnerships and organizations, you have a lot of bleed over, like, I'm gonna do this today and that tomorrow and this today and then your partner's doing this today and that today and that tomorrow. But we were really big on, like, hey, stay in your lane. Like, trust your partners. Trust your employees. They're gonna stay in their lane.

You stay in your lane. That was one of the the biggest takeaways I had.

Steve: Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So it was this little thing. You you kinda got a couple of guys together.

Let's start this as harvest. Mhmm. Right? And now it's one of the top multistate, operators.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Yeah. I mean, they're they're public.

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: Millions of dollars.

Kyle: Hundreds of yeah.

Steve: Hundreds of millions of dollars.

Kyle: Yeah. How

Steve: in the world do you stay motivated?

Kyle: I gotta stay busy. You know, I, I I I grew up in real estate. My mom was a real estate agent. I've been in it since I was 18 years old. It's everything that I've ever known.

So it would be it would be silly for me to leave real estate, especially on the investment side of it. You know, you can build really, really great wealth through real estate. Yeah. So there's there's no reason for me to leave. I still like it.

You know, I like the guys I work with a lot. And I'm I'm I'm like I'm a deal junkie. Like, I just I I love doing deals.

Steve: Well, because you could just take the money, park it, be you know, you could you could park it in, you know, a safe fund

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: Make six to 8%. Mhmm.

Kyle: You

Steve: could be a hard money lender Mhmm. Making 12 to 18%. Yeah. But you're still out there hustling.

Kyle: Yeah. And I'm I mean, I kinda do all those. So I I do lend. I do buy rentals. I do I I'll flip from time to time.

It's more of a joint venture thing. So now instead of me being the guy trying to raise the money and go in and I go do the project, I'm more JVing with guys and, hey, I'll put up the money. You go manage the project. Yeah. But, yeah, we still wholesale.

I I have my my wholesale operation there because I really like the guys that I work with. You know, three of the guys have been with me for four years, so I want us to make sure they stay successful. But it's also there to service me for buying rental properties and for me and my joint venture partners to buy and flip properties. So So I would never let it go away. It would just, it would be silly.

Like I'm, you know, I know I always want to buy real estate. Right now I am the I get the deals originated and I'm the filter. Why would I go away? You know, if I if I just started buying from other wholesalers, I'm essentially paying what I could be getting it under contract for if I ran the operation myself Mhmm. Plus their fee.

Plus the premium. 12,000. Yeah. So it just it doesn't make sense for me to to turn it off.

Steve: Right. So for you right now, you're just acquiring properties. Mhmm.

Kyle: And

Steve: as long as it can get you good deals, they give you decent ROI. Yeah. Yep. Happy to keep doing that. Yep.

And one of the things that we've talked about before was, so you got you said three guys with with that have been with you for a while. How many acquisition guys do you have?

Kyle: Right now, I've got one, two, three, four, five, seven.

Steve: Seven. Yeah. And so a conversation that you and I have had, you know, over lunch is that a lot of guys right now, the question of compensation comes up every once in a while. Right? I think we pay our guys really well at 20%.

People tell me we're paying our guys too much. Mhmm. And you pay way more than that. Way more.

Kyle: Yeah. Talk to

Steve: me about that.

Kyle: My the the guy that will make the lowest amount for me, and these are like, we're onboarding you. You don't you don't know what escrow means. They'll be between 2025%. My lead guy, he'll be between forty five and fifty percent. My other couple guys that have been with me for a while, they are gonna be between 3040%.

Okay. You know, just like in real estate, when you have a team with buyer's agents, buyer's agents move constantly. Like, if you look at an apartment real estate website, somebody's been at 14 brokerages at eight to twelve month spans because they're they're always just looking for, can I make make 5% more? Can I make 5% more? And I see that in the wholesale industry.

Like, we still we get guys that'll call us and say, hey. I've been working for so and so. Do you want me to come over? Mhmm. So I I looked at it as, do I pay too much?

I mean, I I don't think I pay too much. I the industry thinks I pay too much and that's fine. But I also have three guys who've been with me for three to four years who would I mean, they'd take a bullet for me.

Steve: Yeah.

Kyle: And at times, they might have to.

Steve: Well, with the houses, you're door knocking.

Kyle: But, they've been with me forever. They're loyal. They love what they do. And Yeah. Yeah.

So what

Steve: does the rest of your organization look like?

Kyle: Rest of the organization? So I was talking about earlier, we do a lot of door knocking and a lot of cold calling. About a year and a half ago, I was approached by, a guy who became a good buddy of mine, and he was a systems guy. He actually he spent a decade in the US Air Force, flew f-16s, really, really smart guy. And he kind of came in and he was wanting to invest in real estate and start to flip houses.

And he noticed a big disconnect in technology in the real estate space. And so he came to me and pretty much said, hey. You know, how does your office work? And at that time, I had a door knocking app that I was using, not one that I owned, just one that were paying for. I had a cold calling system, and then we had a way of getting contact data.

And the person that ran that was a girl named Cheyenne, and Cheyenne was a, like, $14 an hour employee. And she would sit there, and she would extract out all the the doors we were hitting and building lists and then formatting those lists and taking them to the skip tracing company and getting contact data and then getting that list back and then dividing the list up, putting it into the dialers and tracking everything. And Will came to me and he said, hey. Give me three weeks. We're gonna fire Cheyenne.

I said, Alright. You know, go for it. And so he built out a system that every day at 1PM, it would automatically extract out every door that my guys had hit and identified that day, automatically push them to the skip tracing company, get the contact information, and then push it to our dialer. And so we essentially removed human interaction from data and from connecting all these softwares. And, I'm like, alright.

Cool. I'm I'm good with it. And he he built out the he built it out in a way that it would reprioritize calls every single day. So it reprioritize it based on, when it was generated and who generated it. And, so we did that, and that was, like I said, mid two thousand and eighteen.

And, in March, I was talking with him, and I'm like, you know, I think I think this could actually be like a consumer facing business. I think this is something that we should, you know, see if other people are interested in doing. Mhmm. Alright. Let's let's go for it.

And, I said, well, you gotta build me a website. Like, you get because I'm not a tech guy. I'm like, so I I understand how it works kinda high level, but I need you to build me a website so I can say point people and say, here, this this this thing works. Yeah. And through that, we ended up building a data aggregation service and a data aggregation pipeline that connects different real estate softwares through data.

And so it's it's, it's now nationwide. Mhmm. We have an on prem database of a 158,000,000 properties in The United States, and it makes live calls. So rather than, some of these other companies where you have to send them a list and then wait, you know, six to twenty four hours to get your list back, it's it's all live. So, for instance, we can take a list of a thousand property addresses, with or without ownership information, and you're gonna have that list back in two to four minutes with contact data.

Steve: What does on prem mean?

Kyle: On prem means that we, we don't go to an outside service for it. So on premises. So it's our it's our internal database. Gotcha. That refreshes every other week.

So we have new ownership information. We have a vacancy database. So the it

Steve: actually updates every month with

Kyle: vacant properties. We have vacancy database. So the it actually updates every month with vacant properties. We have an absentee owner database. So someone can go to the system right now and say, I want, vacant properties in this ZIP code, and it's gonna generate that list for you with contact data.

Steve: Gotcha. So yes, Cheyenne. So you got the acquisition guys.

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: Yes, Cheyenne. Will's basically automating Yep. This, dispositions. I mean, I know you're you're keeping some of these. Mhmm.

How are you moving the rest?

Kyle: Two of the guys two of the guys in my office, they do all the dispositions. Okay. So, for me personally, I don't touch any acquisition or any disposition. Once it's under contract, I'll take a look at it. I'll say, hey, I think it's worth x.

I think we can move it for this price.

Steve: So you're still valuing it?

Kyle: I will value it once we have the contract.

Steve: Gotcha.

Kyle: So once we have the contract, I'll value the property. I'll tell them where I think we can move it at based on the condition and the value, or I'll tell them, hey. I'm gonna buy this one.

Steve: Gotcha.

Kyle: Yeah. But then two guys in my office, they build the blast. They reach out to all the investors. They send the blast out. They fill all the calls.

They manage the whole disposition.

Steve: Any virtual assistants?

Kyle: No. No. Not on the real estate business.

Steve: And then as far as, like, you know, your acquisition guys, you know, we've talked about this before. Hiring and keeping hiring and keeping,

Kyle: you know,

Steve: inside salespeople has have have been historically a challenge. And I know a lot of people have that challenge. Do you still have that challenge given what you pay, or you you kinda don't have that challenge?

Kyle: No. You overpay them and they stay. You know, we have a fun office. It's a warehouse. Mhmm.

So, you know, we have a craps table. We have two TVs. We have an Xbox. We have a

Steve: craps table.

Kyle: Yeah. We have a ping pong table. So it's a fun environment. You know, we buy lunch every couple days and, it's a fun environment, but they they work really hard. And, you know, they're they get paid really well.

You know, most of the acquisition guys in their low twenties, you know, they're gonna make $40.50, $60 a year. Right. You know, two of the two of the guys in the office make over 100. One guy makes over 200. And, you know, no college degree.

It's not a nine to five. You know, if they wanna go on vacation, they go on vacation. If they wanna take a day off, they take a day off.

Steve: No drug testing?

Kyle: Absolutely not. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So, we talked about door knocking.

Kyle: Mhmm. And

Steve: we talked about cold calling.

Kyle: Mhmm. Are

Steve: you doing anything else?

Kyle: We do mailers from time to time. Mhmm. We will but, again, that's pretty specifically targeted. So we'll we'll typically, door knock for three months. And then all the properties that we identified as being bad properties in our office, the tag is called POS.

So we every quarter, we mail all the POS properties. So we, they get hit by door knocking, calling, and then in the mail.

Steve: Gotcha. And we have a lot of friends, right, in the business. Like, you know, like I mentioned earlier, you've been in the business a long time. I've been in business a long time. So we have a lot of friends in the traditional real estate side

Kyle: Mhmm. Or in

Steve: in that community. But you've made a decision to let your license go.

Kyle: Yeah. I went inactive.

Steve: Yeah. So So talk about the the decision. Why'd you do that?

Kyle: I went inactive either two or three years ago. I don't remember. I think two. Just over two years ago. I wasn't using it anymore.

Mhmm. And as a licensed agent in Arizona, you have to make specific disclosures when you're buying a property, when you're selling a property. I've dealt with the Department of Real Estate on wholesaling. They don't love the industry by any means. And I think a lot of agents, I had an agent in my office a week or two ago who's wholesaling and, I was talking to him about his license.

And on all of his contracts, he's not disclosing that he's a licensed agent. You gotta you gotta do that. And so it's just a matter of, is it bringing me any value versus the liability? And I own a brokerage, so I don't I don't need to have my license. If I buy a property that I want to sell, I have agents.

My wife has a real estate license. So they're just there wasn't a reason for me to have it. You know, maybe I'll show a tenant a house from time to time or something for a couple $100, and

Steve: I'll

Kyle: reactivate it. But Right. Yeah.

Steve: I just didn't need it. Are there any important metrics with the way you run your business that, you know, you feel are, are specific to you? Or

Kyle: I'd say they're probably the same that everybody does. How many calls per day are your guys making? How many contacts per day? How many contacts per contract? How many contracts per closing?

So I I would think that most guys are looking at the same stuff I'm looking at. Nothing crazy important.

Steve: Yeah. So Herman Suarez wants to know, what's your door knocking script when you're when you're in front of the homeowners?

Kyle: Yeah. So we used to do we used to door knock and say, hey. Do you wanna cash an offer on your house? That wasn't the best. What seems to work Oh?

Yeah. What seems to actually work really well is you knock on a house and say, hey. My name's whatever. So Andrew, for instance, he'll go out. Hey.

My name is Andrew. I know you don't wanna sell your house. You clearly don't need to sell your house. And then he'll point to somebody across the street. Do you know if will they want a cash offer?

You know? And they'll kinda start it that way. And, you know, what people don't realize, they're just snaking around the neighborhood, so they're hitting every single house anyways. But it's it's just simply like, hey. You know, I know you don't want a cash offer for your house.

You don't need to sell your house. Do you know if they would want a cash offer? Here's what we paid for your neighbor's house. We give them this post possession. Do you think they would be interested and that that's been our best go.

Steve: That's just like an investor pitch.

Kyle: Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's been our best go.

Steve: I mean, I know you're not probably interested in investing, but do you know anyone else who's looking to make 7% Exactly. ROI? Yeah.

Kyle: It's like, no. I'm that guy. Yeah. I wanna make 7% ROI. Exactly.

So, yeah, that that's been the best the best approach that we've had. Not, hey. Will you sell me your house? I'm at your house. But, you know, to be honest with you too, is we we talk to a lot of people who will tell us, you know, we get letters, we get calls, we get texts, but the fact that you were actually here Mhmm.

Sometimes people think, like, you drove out just to meet them. Like, you drove out just to their house to talk to them about buying their house. So I think it shows a little bit more commitment. You know, again, in Arizona, it's super easy to send a mailer. It's very easy to call.

It's very easy to text. When it's a 115 degrees out, there's nobody else in the neighborhood door knocking. We never see other people door knocking for real estate. So when you're out there, it shows a level of commitment. Like, hey.

I'm here right now. I'm not just sending you a text. I'm interested in your house, this house that I'm at. I think I think it shows more commitment.

Steve: Gotcha. And so when you're door knocking, right, this you know, you're out on the street today. You're door knocking. Are you trying to lock it up right then and there, or are you trying to set up another appointment for someone else to come in?

Kyle: Depends on who's on the door specifically. Our guys will all stay within the square mile. Mhmm. I only have one guy in the office who gets contracts. I have three guys who go on appointments.

So if it's one of the appointment guys, they'll walk in the house and do the appointment. If it's one of the, like, lower level sales guys, they'll be at, you know, whatever address and street, and they'll reach out to one of the other guys and say, hey. This person wants you to meet with them, and they'll go over there.

Steve: Okay. So let's just say you got the guy that's ready to lock it up. Right? So he knocks on the door. The homeowner lets him in.

What's some of the craziest

Kyle: Craziest things we've ever seen. The meth house was really interesting because, you know, they weren't thinking right. They there was a fire in the kitchen. You had one person in the kitchen with a rake, and they were raking garbage out of the kitchen. And then you had somebody else, and they had a broom, and they were cleaning.

So both people thought they were cleaning. They were back to back. They were literally hockey pucking trash back to each other. They just they and so we were sitting there like, this can't be real right now. That was one of the craziest.

The dead cats was pretty crazy. One house, you know, I don't know how nasty you want me to get. One house had buckets of feces, human feces, so they weren't using the toilets. So they were just buckets everywhere. One eight It's like her toilet.

Twenty eight just bought that house from me, Elman. Love Elman. Yeah. Buckets of feces. We've had Did

Steve: that convey when you sold it to oh, yeah.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. We had it. Yeah. We gave that to Elman.

Bathtub full of animal feces, needles. I mean, you know, lots of drugs. We've seen some that were grow houses where people tried to hide the what they were growing. Yeah. We've we've seen just about everything.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. It's not like you can smell it or anything.

Kyle: No. Exactly.

Steve: And then Mario Fernandez wants to know, how are you paying the door knockers?

Kyle: They're all commissioned guys. All of them are commissioned.

Steve: So same thing. Yep. 20 to 40% depending on their experience.

Kyle: Who they are, experience, and what they do.

Steve: Gotcha.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: And then, you know, if you could just elaborate your deal flow. How many deals are you doing a month right

Kyle: now? On average, we're between six and eight six to 10 because we'll we'll pick some off as rentals or flips personally, but as well.

Steve: You know, like, your margins, like I said earlier, are kinda stupid. Right? Way higher than ours.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: So monthly, what do you guys bring in in revenue?

Kyle: We have since 2016, we've always, on an annual basis, we've always been over 7 figures. So, you know, we've had some months in the past where we've been in the 200 range. We've, you know but on average, we're between 80 and 100.

Steve: Yeah. And I kinda mentioned earlier in the beginning of the show, you know, you've been kinda quiet. Yeah. You've always stayed under the radar.

Kyle: Yeah. I'm the wholesaler. Nobody knows.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Why? What's the purpose? I mean, I only know because we're connected.

Kyle: Yeah. I don't know. I'm I'm not a big self promoter. I'm not a big social media guy. Like, you know, I'm on social media, but, you know, I don't talk about deal flow and

Steve: No one would know looking at your Facebook Yeah. That you're that you're in real estate, to be honest

Kyle: with you. Yeah. I know. You know, one thing, loose lips sink ships. Yeah.

That's one thing. You know, one thing I did learn from the auction days is that, we had a really good thing going at the auctions. There weren't a lot of guys who were doing it. Even when there were 30 companies down there, there really wasn't a lot. And then there was a TV show on Discovery.

Mhmm. And it what was it? Property Wars. Yeah. And that, to me, that ruined we had a really good you know, we had a fishing hole with a lot of fish and not a lot of people knew about the fishing hole.

Yeah. And I've seen kind of the same thing happen in on the investment side of real estate is that in 02/1415, like, nobody was doing the direct to seller thing. And so for me, I looked at it as, like, I know about this thing that works really well. Why am I gonna go broadcast it?

Steve: Yeah.

Kyle: Well, in 02/1819, everybody else started broadcasting it.

Steve: So A little different.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: It's a little different now. Yeah. So then since you're door knocking and cold calling and just mailing every once in a while Mhmm. What is your monthly overhead?

Kyle: Monthly overhead's pretty low because, you know, I would say I have an office, but I don't have a I don't have salaries. I'm not I'm not paying guys a lot of salaries. So, on an average basis, we're about 7,000 a month. Now, obviously, if we do a mailer, it's gonna go up significantly, but, you know, we're we're right around 7,000 a month.

Steve: That's really low.

Kyle: And and that I mean, 20% of that's our dialing because we have, I think we have what, eight seats triple line dialers. Yeah.

Steve: Which program are you using right now for dialing? Mojo. You went back to Mojo?

Kyle: Yeah. So I was using 59 for just over a year. 5 really good if you have a lot of different complications that you want to build into it. And we did and it just it was it wasn't too robust. I think what we were trying to do was too robust for Five9 because it was dealing with, like, how sellers were acting on the phone and it would reprioritize calls based on that.

It would reprioritize calls based on ring time and it was it was just I think it was just too much. And I just got to the point where I was like, alright. Let's just dumb it down and go back to LoJo.

Steve: Alright. Guys, this is remember, it's a live show, so ask your questions. You know, Kyle's happy to answer all your questions. So Murrah wants to know, have been houses you go to with a partner or are you always or just alone?

Kyle: On the appointments?

Steve: I guess, probably the question probably more is along the lines of, are there houses that you for sure are bringing a partner with you?

Kyle: Now, not so much just because I refuse to go on appointments.

Steve: Well, I guess not you. Yeah. But your team, like, do you have, like, a buddy system?

Kyle: Typically. Yeah. So and the way that we do it right now is if we have an appointment in a neighborhood at 01:30 today, that's where the whole group's gonna knock. Yeah. Usually, only one guy goes inside of the appointment.

But, I mean, there were plenty of times where we, like, no chance one person would have gone into the house. Yeah. You know, I've actually one story I forgot. There was a property in Tempe where, you know, I I do jiu jitsu. And in jiu jitsu, I learned there are things that are gonna hurt and then there are things that are gonna kill you and you just have to put up with the things that are gonna hurt.

And I remember I walked I walked into the house and I kinda got in there and the owner was, you know, I'm short. I'm five foot seven. The owner was a big guy and I started walking around the house and I remember thinking, you're gonna get hit. You're gonna get hit hard. You're gonna have to get out of the house.

You need to you need to find a way out of the house. And I was in that house by myself actually. Yeah. There's a lot of other stuff about the house that I probably can't talk about, but it was a really funny situation. We ended up buying it.

Steve: Anything weird happened? Did you get hit?

Kyle: I did not get hit. There were a lot of weird things in the house. I mean, you could, like, feel evil. There was a room in the garage that was built out that was all blacked out with weird masks.

Steve: I think you sent me photos of this house.

Kyle: There were things mounted on walls.

Steve: Yeah.

Kyle: Yeah. It was that house. I was you know, I remember thinking, like, alright. You're gonna get hit. Just deal with it and get out.

Steve: So there have been, I haven't, you know, I haven't done as much volume as all these other guys have been in the show, but there are two different houses I've been at. One where I was walking by, and I was like, okay. There's this rusty hammer just sitting here by itself for no reason whatsoever.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: Right? It's like, okay. Well, hopefully, nothing crazy happens with this rusty hammer because, like, the guy is kinda, like, not all there. Yep. So I was like, alright.

Well, I gotta keep my head in a swivel Yeah. Just in case. And nothing weird happened, but it's like no one knows where I'm at.

Kyle: Right. Oh, yeah. Right? We have a shared calendar. My wife was on it back in the day because it was like, alright.

We need to know where everybody is at every every point in time. Because, yeah, there were houses that were rough.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, rough. And then I had another one where the house was worth about $2.40, $2.40, $2.45, and the guy wanted $2.45 Mhmm. Which is fine. Whatever.

It's a tough negotiation. Yeah. But he was a bodybuilder. Yeah. And he wasn't taking no for an answer.

Yeah. He was like, you're paying $2.45 for yourself. Okay. I'm not paying $2.45 for this house.

Kyle: Babe, we moved. Yeah. I bought us a house.

Steve: But, I mean, he was, like, flexing. Yeah. In the appointment, I was like, man, if this guy wants to go to town, I can't do anything. Right. You know?

So

Kyle: Haven't had any of those, I don't think.

Steve: He was really assertive.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: Koa wants to know your initial offer for the home about the neighbor's house.

Kyle: Uh-huh.

Steve: What so when you say, I wanna you know, I'm thinking about buying that house. Yeah. We paid this much. What are you telling those homeowners?

Kyle: So we use a system called BatchGeo, and BatchGeo is a map system. And so what we do is every month, we upload an Excel spreadsheet into that, and it tracks all of our purchases across Maricopa County with address, purchase price, square footage, year build, bunch of specs on the property. And so when my guys door knock in neighborhood, they actually have reference points because here, you know, here are houses that we bought and they just opened it on their on their iPhones.

Steve: That's pretty smart.

Kyle: Yeah. And so what they'll do is they'll you know, I'm talking to Steve saying, hey, I wanna buy that house. You know, I think and the way that they'll play it is they'll they'll kind of they'll play the homeowner off themselves. So, like, hey. I'm standing in front of a 1,600 square foot house.

Well, I know that in the neighborhood, I paid this for another 1,600 square foot house. So they'll say, hey, Steve. You know, the house looks like it's, like, 1,600 square feet. Here's what we think we would pay. Here's the conditional one we just bought.

And that's kinda the the conversation starter.

Steve: Gotcha. So you just base it off what you guys have bought it for. It has nothing to do with percentages. It has nothing to do with ARVs.

Kyle: I don't do percentages. Yeah. I mean, it it'll it'll be based off ARV a little bit. But, you know, what have we bought in the area? What are other cash offers paying for in the area?

What's going for retail in the neighborhood? What could this rent be for? So you

Steve: probably also know what you can sell it for as well?

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. You know, the other thing too is that we go on way less appointments than most wholesalers. Like in a given month, we're not going on 20 appointments. Yeah.

You know, I know some guys, they're going on like three to five appointments a day. You know, I'm I'm I am I don't think it's a bad thing. I'm not a hard worker. I'm not gonna work hard. I'm just I'm not going to.

So I have to be very, very efficient and I have to work really smart because I'm not gonna work hard. Yeah. So, you know, we'll go on less than 20 appointments a month, but we'll buy, you know, again, six to eight on average.

Steve: Do you guys have a targeted fee?

Kyle: No. I mean, I at times, I look at deals that come in because, again, I I don't sign the contracts and I don't deal with the disposition. So there are times where I'm like, you guys, this is a $1,200 assignment fee. Like, this is not worth the time, the risk. Like, what are you guys doing?

But, you know, it's good for the guys in the office to do. But, you know, targeted fee, you know, I'd like to be at least $8 just based on, you know, the amount of time that goes into it and getting in and everything like that. Yeah. Yeah. There have been times where I'm like, you guys you're you're losing money buying this house.

Like, what are you doing?

Steve: Sean O'Rourke wants to know, how are you recruiting your door knockers?

Kyle: Yeah. I'll be totally honest with you. Mormons. Mormons, right out of high school, they go and they door knock for two years. And, we have right now in the office, of the seven guys, either three or four of them are LDS because they were, they spent two years door knocking.

And, you know, the big thing with door knocking, the reason why a lot of people don't want to do it is fear of rejection. And it's like, well, alright, you're gonna door knock somebody's house. Worst case scenario, they tell you to leave and then you just go to the next house. Well, Mormons who are door knocking for two years, they don't have that fear of rejection. Yeah.

So we've done really well with that. And then just, you know, younger guys who are looking to be more on the entrepreneur side of business, you know, they don't want to be an hourly employee. They're, you know, they go on door knock. So I

Steve: don't know how to say this without being offensive.

Kyle: I don't get offended.

Steve: How are LDS people working for you?

Kyle: How are LDS people working for me? I have a lot of people who were raised Mormon Mhmm. And who went on their mission and maybe don't go to church every week anymore.

Steve: Really? Yeah. Gotcha. So he's like Jack Mormons?

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. And then Kenny Wright wants to know, are you letting your team write the contract, or do they set the appointment, you go back with them and do the contract?

Kyle: I don't go. I have one guy in the office who is able to get the contract signed. So, three guys are allowed to go on appointments. One guy is allowed to get the contract signed.

Steve: And Matt Beard is asking about felons.

Kyle: Felons? Mhmm. What about them?

Steve: I don't know. He just says felons.

Kyle: The ones who work for me or the ones who do I have any felons who work for me? I don't have anybody with a felony, so I don't have any felons.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. And then Kenny wants to know, how do you prospect for Mormons who finish their two year service?

Kyle: There's a there's actually a website where you can post jobs, it's and it's specific to the Mormon church. I can't remember what it is. Andrew runs it for me. But you can actually it's like a Craigslist. You can post,

Steve: job ads. It's almost like, what's that? Like farm grows only? Is that what it is? Yeah.

Kyle: Something like that.

Steve: It's like this.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: For LDS.

Kyle: Yeah. JDate. Yeah. That's really what it is. So we we post on there, and then they're still connected Mormon community.

So they Right. You know, they have family friends who, you know, they know. Gotcha. Yeah.

Steve: Makes sense. So we talked about this earlier and maybe elaborate this a little bit more. So we've seen the shifts. We've seen the turns. Mhmm.

Are you doing anything right now to prepare for the next shift?

Kyle: I've been doing it for the last year and a half because we used to spend so I used to pay dialers. At one point time, we had 19 guys in the office. 10 of them were getting paid hourly to dial. I used to do mailers every single month. I used to do text campaigns.

And in 2019, we did away with all of that because I think it's very important right now that guys stay lean.

Steve: Yeah.

Kyle: I, Again, I don't think people realize how fast the market can change.

Steve: You

Kyle: know, ninety days may not sound fast, but the problem is as it's changing, a lot of people throw more money at the problem. And they're like, well, alright. I just gotta do more marketing. I gotta spend more here, more here. And then the revenue isn't there from it.

And three months down the road, it's like, alright, now I'm out of money and the market's changed. I don't know what to do. So, staying lean, you know, I keep my overhead super low. Because I I think that a lot of investors and wholesalers have entered the space. I think there's a lot more competition, and I think that it's going to stay the same.

I think I think there's gonna be a lot more competition coming into the market in '20. So, yeah, we just we're staying lean. Right. And I I always stay lean. November, December, January, I don't I don't spend a lot of money anyways.

But, you know, I'll kinda see what the market's looking like in December and January and then kinda reassess and go from there.

Steve: Gotcha. And then we're talking about, skipping, you know, data and so on. So Mhmm. I think I wanna say maybe seven years ago. You're talking about Lex Lexus Nexus Yeah.

On all this stuff. So right now, what are you doing to get data?

Kyle: So, essentially, the program that Will built for my office internally is what we've brought to consumers now. So it's a nationwide product. We have people using it currently in 34 states. Like I said, we have every parcel in The United States. So we provide property data for free whenever you make a call to us.

The the company is called IVRE Data. And, it's unique in that you don't have to have ownership information. It's unique in how you can make queries to the system. So, for instance, any cell phone can send a text message with a property address to us and within two to three seconds, you're getting a return with who owns that address, phone numbers, email addresses. It's incredibly efficient in how it runs batch files.

So again, a list of a thousand addresses will take two to three minutes to get that back. And we're built to integrate into businesses. Businesses. We're not just a service that's reselling data and giving you back an Excel spreadsheet. We can push to any endpoint you want.

So we can direct it directly to Mojo, for instance. So if somebody uploads a list with through us, three minutes later it's in their Mojo account with contact data.

Steve: Yeah.

Kyle: It's also really nice because you don't have to format lists. So we can get a list where you can leave in square footage and your built and sale history and our list will find the property address somewhere in your file, run it for contact data and ownership, push it back there with all of your data still in there, and send it to any endpoint that you want. Yeah. And I

Steve: think that's a, you know, maybe I want to emphasize it again. So you're saying that if they upload a list, once that list is skipped, it can go right into Mojo.

Kyle: Direct into Mojo. Yeah. So, yeah, you bring us a list thousand addresses. Two to four minutes later, that is in your Mojo account. So it's it's a really efficient system.

Steve: It's definitely different. Yeah. What is your biggest struggle right now?

Kyle: Biggest struggle right now, you know, again, assessing what 20 is gonna look like. It it kinda seems like there's a little bit of shift in the market right now, but I don't I don't know what it is. Mhmm. Yeah. I I say, you know, this time of year, it's always, you know, what's next year gonna look like?

So

Steve: Very much so. It's always what's gonna what's gonna happen in January.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: We got this pent up supply, pent up demand. Yep. And we don't know which one's gonna win.

Kyle: Yeah. And, you know, I'd say we you know, one of the biggest struggles that we see in in Maricopa County, at least, and I talk with other guys who I I industry, is you're seeing a lot of guys who are putting properties under contract in a way that they shouldn't be. So I'd say that's one of the biggest struggles is that, you know, wholesalers, unfortunately, and fortunately, I guess, is it's unregulated. There's no department. There's no government looking down on it saying, hey, you can and can't do these things.

So what I've noticed in in the last year or so is a lot of guys are putting homeowners under contract at an unrealistically high price and then they are locking that homeowner into that contract through a recording against the property. And then, you know, a property worth 200, maybe they put it under contract for $1.90 knowing that nobody's gonna pay above $1.50 for it. Mhmm. You know, and then we'll deal with the seller and say, you know, hey. We'll pay that $1.50 for it.

And then the seller finds out they've been locked into this contract they can't get out of. And so I've seen people go into foreclosure because of that. So I'd say the biggest struggle is that, unfortunately, it's a it's such an unregulated industry that a lot of guys have gotten into it, and they're they're very shady in my opinion. Yeah.

Steve: So I think that's a problem probably in multiple, states, but definitely something that's come up multiple times. In fact, there was a rant by one of our friends not too long ago

Kyle: Mhmm.

Steve: On Instagram about that. So what do you think is the fix for that?

Kyle: What do I think the fix is? I think that anytime that someone sees that happening Mhmm. I would go to the attorney general. So, I would make a claim to the attorney general. I would also make a claim to the Department of Real Estate.

You know, and the I wouldn't even I mean, I think Rand has a negative connotation to it. I think what he talked about was, I think it needs to be talked about more. And I think the people who are doing this should be named. And I I think that you should go to the attorney general's office because we've dealt with homeowners who, and that property specifically, it almost got foreclosed on. I mean, this lady was legitimately going to lose her house.

Probably the the biggest asset she's ever going to have in her entire life, she's about to lose it to foreclosure because of two guys who are screwing her over and misleading her on what she can possibly do with her property. And I don't even know the outcome of that deal anymore. I don't know what's happened with it. But, I mean these guys are, in my opinion, I think it's shady. I think anytime that you're recording an instrument against a property and a homeowner, where the homeowner doesn't fully understand what's going on, I mean, I I think put them in jail.

Steve: I think put them in jail too. So we'll see what happens. Yeah. What is your superpower?

Kyle: What is my superpower? I'm a survivor. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a survivor.

I'd say that's my superpower.

Steve: You wanna talk more about that?

Kyle: I just I've been through a lot of different markets. I've been through changing markets. I've been I've been in markets where in 02/1978, like, people don't realize it unless you were there, there were agents who were seasoned, twenty years in the industry going bankrupt. Yeah. So I I think that, you know, my talent or or skill is just just knowing how to survive and and and hopefully thrive in in any type of market.

Steve: Even our friend Brent, Brent Daniels. Yeah. Right? He signed he personally guaranteed a very long lease.

Kyle: I remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I I think, you know, that that'd be my my superpower. I'm not Yeah. Again, I'm not a hard worker. I'm an efficient worker, but I think surviving.

Steve: Yeah. I think for me, I am glad that I didn't get into real estate in 02/1956.

Kyle: I think we would have

Steve: been out in three years. Well, I think, you know, I saw all those guys, and they're what they had to recover from was way harder than what I had to recover. I just had to recover from

Kyle: credit card debt.

Steve: Mhmm. These guys had to recover from BKs losing their cars, losing their houses.

Kyle: Six, seven, eight houses. Yeah. Commercial buildings. Yeah. Right.

I mean, it was it was insane. And the other thing I'm the reason I'm glad I didn't get into it in in 03/1934, was that, I think we would have learned really bad habits. You know, when you get into it when we did, you couldn't have bad habits. I mean, you know, the best of the best were going out of business. Like, if you survived six through 10 Mhmm.

You're gonna be alright.

Steve: Right. Yeah. So I got the cut through my cut my teeth

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: In in a bad time. So Everardo wants to know, what are some of the things you look for when you research a new market?

Kyle: I actually have not gone to a new market since I went to Colorado. Mhmm. The the reason being is just, I truthfully, I just I just haven't wanted to grow it in other markets. I don't wanna deal with the headache.

Steve: You

Kyle: know, I I was a part of a big business and building a big business that went nationwide and I just I didn't want to do it with the wholesale industry or the investment business because I just I didn't want to be managing properties in other states and, you know, I've got a wife and kids here. I'm not I'm not looking to travel all the time and be gone. And, I just look at it as if I can if I can make the money that I want to make in Maricopa County and I can go to the office, you know, three or four days a week and do what I want to do Yeah. You know, I'm not looking to be the the biggest guy in the in the nation by any means. And

Steve: then he has a follow-up question. It's how are you determining how much investors are willing to pay for properties?

Kyle: So I would say that 80 to 90% of our industry sells to the same five guys. So I kinda know their buy box. I know know what they're gonna pay for a property. My big thing is, like, I want all my investors to come back for a second, third, fourth, fifth house. You know, I think there's a lot of guys in the space.

I mean, not a lot, but there are guys in the space that are like, alright. I wanna see how deep I could take this guy. Right? Mhmm. That's not me.

I want I wanna make sure that my guys are always coming back. I mean, Elman, for instance, I think in a given year, in 2017, they bought, like, 60 houses from me. And I wanna make sure they're making money on every deal. I wanna make sure the deals work out. I mean, I've written checks after closings to pay for roofs because we didn't know the roofs were bad.

So I'll look at it as, what do I think this price this house is legitimately worth on the open market? What do I think it's gonna cost to get it to that level? What is a reasonable return? Alright. Here's where we're gonna price that property.

And, you know, there have been times where I've been off and 15 people offer us above, you know, what we wanted for it and, you know, so be it. And then there's other times where it's like, alright. We gotta bring it down $10. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. What is your favorite, best, or most interesting failure?

Kyle: Most interesting failure. We tried the short sale game for a while. I I don't know if I would say we failed at it. We didn't overly succeed at it. It was just because we didn't know we were doing.

Most people didn't.

Steve: No. Not at that time.

Kyle: Yeah. And and I I shouldn't have done it because I was so focused on the auction business at that time and I looked at it as like, well, well, let's build out the short sale arm. Mhmm. And it just it didn't go well at all. And it just if if anything, the short sale business did okay, but it took away from the auction business.

So that was that was one of the bigger failures as far as real estate goes.

Steve: You know, and I think that's a key point there. Not as far as short sales versus auctions, but there's you know, right now, a lot of people are listening to their show, right, their wholesalers are entrepreneurial. Right? You're not gonna be wholesale if you're not entrepreneurial. Right.

People overlook, like, man, I'm gonna chase this other thing. I'm gonna go after this other, you know, distraction now. You're gonna have, you know, harvest. Right. Fantastic distraction.

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: Right? But more often than not Yeah. They're they're

Kyle: they're distractions like your short sales where they take away from your

Steve: main The distractions like your short sales where they take away from your main Your main

Kyle: business.

Steve: Bread and butter.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, one thing I would recommend to wholesalers is is, within real estate at least, try to find a way to build long term wealth. And that's what I think a lot of wholesalers don't realize today is that it's quick money, it's fast money, it's good money, but it's short money.

And, you know, like, you know, what I'm doing today, I wasn't doing in fifteen and I wasn't doing in twelve and I wasn't doing in eight. And I would be willing to bet that in 2021 or 2022, this whole wholesale industry is going to be completely different than what it is today. So I would I would recommend to people find a way to build your business to be sustainable, to survive in any market, and to actually build wealth because, you know, this is all short term money. It's all it's all tax at ordinary income and, you know, hopefully people are paying their taxes. Yeah.

But, yeah, find a way within real estate to build long term wealth.

Steve: Yeah. This is a very, very high paying job. Yeah. People kind of lose sight of that. Yeah.

Sean wants to know what you what are your requirements on your buy and hold?

Kyle: On my buy and hold, I do an equity spread. So, I want a specific amount of equity in it. I look at my net return. So when I factor my rents, I, I don't I don't look at gross returns, you know, 5 or $100 thousand a month. I don't look at that as a 12% return.

I factor in internal cost of property management because I manage it internally. I'd look at property taxes, HOA. I do a renovation, not just going into it, but also holding back for future repairs. And then obviously my the rental tax. So on my low end, depending on year built and equity, I have to be at eight and a half percent net.

So after all expenses, I want to be at eight and a half percent. I also factor in depreciation because I look at it and I so I factor depreciation into my formula too. Not just, hey, what is this thing going to rent for, but how much am I going to be able to depreciate every year? What are the expenses that are going into it? So that's that's how I look at it.

Steve: I got a chance to meet Sean in, in Mississippi a couple of weeks back. And I'll be honest, I'm a little jealous, you know, where they got in their situation. Right? They're buying properties for, like, $50.60 k

Kyle: Yeah.

Steve: That they're renting out for, like, $8,900 a month.

Kyle: Yeah. And I I've I've I know guys that buy stuff in, Indianapolis. Same thing. Much higher returns, but there's there's not a big of an equity play. No.

And there's they usually don't appreciate much. So it's like, yeah. You're buying it for 80 today, but it's probably gonna be worth 80 to 90 in three, four, five years.

Steve: Right.

Kyle: I look at properties. I bought one this week in in Mesa. I paid $1.78 for it. It already had tenants in there. I'm getting $14.50 a month, but most of the recent comps are in the $2.45 range.

So I look at that and say, well, yeah, I'm getting a lower return, but I'm also walking into 28% equity. Yeah. But then I buy other ones that, you know, I pay, you know, 90 to 144. There would be much higher returns, but maybe smaller equity plays. So the portfolio kind of balances out.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. Is there a book that you've gifted more than any other?

Kyle: Shoe dog. Phil Knight. Actually, I just started that this morning for the third time. Really?

Steve: Yeah. I guess I really need to read it.

Kyle: You haven't read it?

Steve: No. Ryan has told me multiple times to to read it. So what what what is about that book that's, like, just screams at you?

Kyle: The guy almost failed every single day for decade. And what I really liked about Shoe Dog is he did not set out to build Nike to be the biggest shoe company in the world. He just didn't know what he wanted to do in life. He found something that he enjoyed and he was passionate about and he just kind of started doing it. I like his philosophy on life a lot.

You know, he he talks about, you know, going into situations where most people would probably be, maybe not self doubt, but worry and stress and he would look at it and kind of question like, alright. Well, what do I know? Like, what's actually factual about this situation? I think a lot of times, business owners will let their feelings and their mind get away from them and make decisions not based on reality, but what they perceive as reality. And so in that book, he was always very much like, what do I know?

Alright. It's a stressful situation, but what do I know? So how he made decisions and I just I can't recommend that book enough. Shoe dog is such a good book.

Steve: Yeah. Well, you mentioned that you're a survivor earlier.

Kyle: Mhmm. So

Steve: I can see why you like this book. Yeah. Kevin wants to know if you had to start over, what would you do

Kyle: differently? In real estate or life? Probably real estate. You know, what would I do differently? I would have gone direct to seller in 02/1112.

I would have started doing that a lot earlier. I would have you know, when I was I think I was 21. So what year is that? 'eight. I was meeting with my buddy's dad and in Maryville at the time, a part of Phoenix, you could buy properties for 12 to $30.

And I was sitting with him like, listen, I know these are going to be good deals one day. I know they're going to rent really well. If we go out and we buy, you know, 30 of these things, you're under a million dollars. And I just, I know it's gonna be good. And he said no, and I didn't push for anybody else.

I was just like, alright, man. If he doesn't see it, I guess it's probably not a good opportunity. Now that $30,000 house, a steal is 120. A steal is $1.20. Yeah.

So I wish I would have pushed harder for buy and hold opportunities. I bought rentals in 02/1011, sold them all within a year or two. Should have kept all those. So that's what I was talking about earlier. Like, look for the long term wealth plan.

Because when I sold my rentals, it was like I mean, I bought a two bedroom townhouse in Tempe, like 54,000. I think they're worth 200 today. Well, I sold it for 70, and I'm like, I'm gonna make $16. I'm out. Yeah.

So build that long term wealth because I made 16,000. Eight of it went to taxes. So it's just you know, make long term decisions. Go for the long play.

Steve: So we got in February. Leon Johnson's gonna be here, and I watched him speak on stage. He's doing half a half a mil per month passive. He's been doing real estate longer than we've been alive. But one of the things he said, they're like, you know, what what would you do differently?

He's like, I never would have sold a property. Yeah. I wish I kept every single property.

Kyle: I had a lady bring me a deal the other day, and she said, hey. I think the house is worth 300. Would you pay $2.50 for it? And I go and look at it. I'm like, this looks familiar.

I bought that house at auction for 99. Yeah. Eight years ago, 2011. I bought it for 99. Today, it's a decent deal at $2.50 and it's worth 300.

I think we sold it within three months for, like, $1.40. Yeah. Gosh. So, yeah, go long. Don't sell.

Steve: Yeah. Played a long game. Alright. So I'm gonna let you think about last thoughts, any kind of analysis you wanna make. So, guys, I will be in two weeks in New Orleans with Chris Rued for Skillathon.

There's some really, really big names, speaking there. We got Ryan Suman, the hardcore closer. You got coach Michael Burt, Burt, a really, successful, coach, for a lot of entrepreneurs, not just, you know, real estate. So if you wanna check that out, go to bit.ly/2019skill. That's bit.ly/2019skill.

And then I'm gonna be in DC in April, for Antoine Campbell's event for Drip. And then I also we still have our workshop coming up in January. So Max and I, we're gonna be going over our whole business. It's two and a half days where we're just gonna go over everything we do for our business step by step where there will be no more questions about how we run our business. So if you wanna make 2020 your year, go to disruptors.com, disruptors.com, to see if the workshop will make sense for you.

And then, we're not gonna be, on the show next week. It's Thanksgiving. But we got Ryan Shalaba coming in two weeks. He needs to talk about how he's running his flip operation, on a massive scale in Pittsburgh. And I watched him speak, and it's just mind blowing how easy he's making flipping look.

So with that, last thoughts.

Kyle: Last thoughts. Read Shoe Dog. Best book I've ever read. Top five for sure. And then check out the the data company, ivyredata.com.

It's ivyredata.com. You know, it was built for real estate, really efficient, really good system, and Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself.

Steve: I hope someone wants to get a hold of you. I hope they get a hold of you.

Kyle: Email would be kyle, kyle,@ivy,ivyre,tech,tech,.com or, shoot me a message on Facebook.

Steve: Alright. Awesome. Thank you guys for watching. Thank you. Yep.

Hopefully, no one gets this episode taken down.