Oliver Seidler Shares How His Company Does 70-100 Deals Per Month

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disrupters. Today, we have Oliver Seiler with Propertyforce, and he flew in from Miami to share how his journey to a thousand deals per year. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, founder of the OfferFast Homes app, the only MLS for off market wholesale properties, and I help entrepreneurs create businesses that support their family lifestyle and goals through mentorship. I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires.

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And this is a live show, so please ask away, all your questions for Oliver to answer. You ready? I'm ready. Alright. So first question is what got you into real estate?

Oliver Seidler: What got me into real estate? Well, I never knew really what I was going to do when I was younger. I knew that I wanted to have my own business and, you know, be entrepreneurial, be in sales of some sort. And, when I was in my last semester in college, actually, all my friends had graduated, six months before me. Took me about five and a half years to graduate.

And I moved out.

Steve: What's that? The scenic route.

Oliver: I I did travel a lot while I was there. So, I had some good experience. I was learned from experience and, you know, barely finished college. But my last semester, I moved out to California because all my friends at FSU had already graduated and, out there, I'd always been a waiter throughout college in Florida. Tried to get a job as a waiter.

Every actor and actress was out there. Couldn't get a job as a waiter. Got a job as a host at one restaurant and a food runner at another restaurant and, you know, was finishing up my last semester, finished up. You know, LA was tougher than I thought. It was a really big city, so I ended up moving back to Miami.

When I got back to, Miami or Fort Lauderdale more specifically, didn't know what I was gonna do. Got a job at another restaurant there. Just was like, this this isn't working. Had had my degree, so got my real estate license. A buddy of mine from college was working at a company called RealNet, told me about it.

Didn't seem like typical real estate. It was fast dealing with investors, numbers, all that kind of stuff. So that appealed to me more than, you know, the typical REMAX or, Coldwell Bank or anything. So had an interview, with the guy who was running that office, and me and him talked, you know, ended up talking for an hour. Didn't have a resume or anything done because all my stuff was in my car, you know, that I drove back from California, hired me on the spot.

He's like, hey. Put a resume together, in a couple weeks. So I did that, gave it to him, and and that was it. Just started there.

Steve: Okay. So you started at RealNet.

Oliver: This is what year? 2004, March 2004.

Steve: Okay. And you just started. What were you responsible for?

Oliver: Well, when I started, the way they had everything set up was you would start in the, they called it sales, but the disposition side of the business, and you would build a book of investors. So, you know, first day, boss took me out to one of the worst neighborhoods in Miami, Liberty City. We went into this house. It was flooded out. You know, people living on mattresses on the floor.

I was like, what did I just get myself into? You know, went into the house, and what we would do is just go to these neighborhoods, put out road signs, looking for investors, you know, 50 ks, three two. Two people would call. You'd bring them into the office, meet with them, run them through the whole, you know, process and system and company and what we did. And, you know, the first six months was really just building that book of investors.

Steve: So when this rolled in, you know, you're trying to build your book of investors, were you commission? Full commission, yeah. Full commission.

Oliver: All right.

Steve: So you were getting paid only if you moved the deal that the company had under contract.

Oliver: Yes. So the I I quit the waiter job because I just wasn't I didn't I didn't wanna serve anybody anymore. I had done it for six or seven years. I've been a busboy, all that stuff. So so I quit that.

I got a job actually as a night at a nightclub as a as a front door guy, and I was working at the nightclub, and then I was doing the real estate stuff in the day, and I followed my my boss had laid out a really good system for me on how to qualify investors and how to kind of like, you know, build that book. So I stayed really disciplined to that system. The first month, I didn't sell any houses. The second month, I sold, I think, nine or 10 houses and, you know, had zero money in my bank account and had 10 ks at the end of the first month, quit the job at the nightclub, and then was kind of off to the races. That's incredible.

Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So your job was just to move properties? Correct. Okay. And then along the way, we were talking offline, you developed some good relationships as well.

Oliver: You're you're saying with the

Steve: With a couple of other companies we were just talking about a moment ago.

Oliver: Oh, yeah. We in that office started off, there was about 15 of us in that office. In the in RealNet was about eight offices, probably around 100 salespeople. And they really, I think, were the biggest company kind of doing this this wholesale thing back then then outside of HomeVestors. And, yeah, in that office, there was 15 of us, and, two of the other guys were the guys that ended up going out to Texas, and one of them formed Net Worth, one of them formed New Western, and, yeah, we all came from that that office of 15 guys.

And the guy, Mark Bloom, who started, net worth, he was 28 or 29 at the time. I was 23, and he was kind of like my mentor, when I first came into that office.

Steve: It's just crazy, like, just these little, you know, incubation. You don't know where it comes from. Like, it's mind blowing to me that three of you guys are all in the same spot doing your own thing. So 2004, but you didn't start, well, I guess, Meridian until 2006. So, like, what happened along the way?

Oliver: Before starting Meridian? Yeah. I was at the company for two years. Learned a ton at that, at at that company. Had a really good time.

It was 15 of us, like I said. Everybody was in their 20s and 30s. I mean, it was a true In Miami. In Miami, it was a true boiler room, you know, making a lot of money at 23, 24 years old. I mean, we had, like, wrestling matches.

Like, we would clear out our boss's office. I mean, it was a true, I mean, fun boiler room. So, you know, learned a lot of stuff there, transitioned to the acquisition side, learned the acquisition side, and then, you know, they were they were lending, money as well as selling the deals, but the lending side of it, was was really aggressive, and I I didn't really know so much at the time, but, you know, kind of just saw it was a lot of, like, you know, practices I really wasn't comfortable with. They wanted me to eventually go to another city and open up an office. I really like South Florida.

I saw kind of, I think, the writing on the wall of what might happen with that company. Had a friend who also went to FSU who, had an accounting background, and he was at a, accounting firm and kind of on his way to being a partner there too. Me and him, had bought a couple houses together and put a lot of money into that, and, you know, we worked well as a partnership with that. He kinda had more of that operational background. I had the industry background, and, yeah, we both left and formed Meridian.

Actually, we worked at first for the first couple months out of my bedroom in a I had a, like, a little desk in my in my bedroom, and we work from there and started sending out some letters and, yeah, got some traction.

Steve: That's incredible. Now, what were some of those practices that you were just uncomfortable with, if you don't mind sharing?

Oliver: It it really was most of the stuff was on the lending side of things. It was just, you know, number one, we were ordering appraisals, which lending was based off of those appraisals, and there was no underwriting process. And, you know, just it it just it felt shady. We were getting people into properties with very little money out of pocket. And so just seeing that, and then also a very kind of hands off approach to management of the office, and things just got a little out of control.

Like I said, I mean, people were like, you know, we're having wrestling matches in in the, in in the middle of my boss's office, clearing out the desk because he wasn't there, and, you know, desk because he wasn't there. And, you know, one of the guys I'm a definitely make him watch the show. He was from Penn State. He wrestled at Penn State. He's like missing a front tooth.

His name's Mike. That's a shout out to him. And, he would just like whip everybody's ass, and he was, like, five six. And and so, you know, you just see all that. It was fun, but eventually, you're like, oh, okay.

So this isn't right. So So

Steve: what was the biggest takeaway from there when you, you know, when when you decided to go start off your own thing? Like, what were some of your biggest lessons? Because, like, I can tell you when I started my brokerage, I had a great, you know, mentor myself. And I learned all the good things from him. Also learned what not to do from him.

Right. Were there any of your takeaways there when you decide to start off

Oliver: your own, your own arm? You're saying takeaways from the my boss at RealNet?

Steve: Just RealNet in general before you start at Meridian.

Oliver: Oh, takeaways from there. Yeah. I mean, the biggest takeaways I had there were, I think, was, you know, following a systematic format, for, you know, building my investor base and just everything I did was very, you know, structured as far as like how my days would be. You know, go put out road signs, field calls from investors, you know, meet with investors, or do whatever it is. And then the same kind of thing when I went to the acquisition side of it.

So I think that really helped. It really helped to go into a lot of houses, probably in that time timeframe of those two years, I must have went into at least like two, three, 400 houses in different areas, just kind of seeing all that stuff, dealing with a lot of investors, and, yeah, just learning from people I was buying acquisitions from, the investors and all that stuff.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. So 2006 when you started Meridian. Now, when did the bust happen for you guys?

Oliver: So, like we were talking about earlier, me and my partner had put all of our money pretty much into this one house in Pompano, and we thought it was gonna be a $30.40 k rehab. Turned out to be, like, a $120,000 rehab over a long period of time. And so we had a lot of money into that house. When we'd started our business, we put both 15 ks each into a bank account, and then the rest of our money was tied up into that house. So we kinda saw I think in Florida, it happened a little bit sooner than everywhere else because, we had two hurricanes hit back to back in 2005.

So the market flatlined really quickly. After that, people were collecting insurance checks, waiting on all that stuff. So we sold that house luckily in the beginning at around probably April or so of 2006. Got our money out of that, and we sold it for $3.50, I believe, or $3.20. And that house, you know, a year later was worth probably $1.10, $1.20.

So, luckily, we got out of that. We saw the market kind of flatline right after the hurricanes in 02/1956. And then I would say the 2007, the market started to kind of creep down, and then the subprime market crashed in '2 in June 2007, June or July, And that's when prices started, like, free falling.

Steve: Right. So you guys didn't really experience the pains of learning this new market until you started, until after you started your company. Until after you started your new company.

Oliver: The pains of the free fall.

Steve: Of the market, yeah.

Oliver: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, when I was at RealNet, everything was like going up fast. And, yeah, when, all the stuff with the going down, I had no experience with that at RailNet.

Steve: Okay. So, when you started Meridian, tell me like what was that like when you first started it?

Oliver: When I first started, I mean, it was just straight hustling. You know, like I said, we'd started it from my, from like my house, a little desk that we had, started doing some mailers. Once we did our first couple deals, we actually went to the nicest office building in Fort Lauderdale, and we got the smallest refund from the lady, and it didn't work out. But, you know, so so once we kinda got little bit of money, we wanted to get into that nice office space. We wanted to feel good when we came into work, you know, be motivated, be around people that, you know, were successful in this building.

You know, it was like the prime building in Fort Lauderdale. It was all you had, like, you know, lawyers and bankers and accountants and all those kind of things, and I and I think a little bit of us like the fact of, you know, seeing these people who are professionals, and, you know, we would come in, you know, casually dressed, and, you know, like, we strive to kind of, you know, I I wanna say beat those people, but, you know, get ahead of those people. And so that was, you know, I think, you know, important in the beginning. So

Steve: you guys started your company and the market market tanks. And I I can't speak for, you know, Miami market intelligently, but I can tell you what I read in the magazines.

Oliver: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Cause you guys had a whole bunch of condos that were built with the intent of, you know, selling them. And not only did they not get completed, but then there was also some funds that, you know, where did this money come from? So, like, how did you survive all that?

Oliver: I mean, the condo market was different than what we were doing. They they just overbuilt. You know, I remember, I I would spend a lot of time in North Miami, in downtown where all the condos were going up and just seeing them and, you know, like, where is all this money coming from and all the supply, you know, and there was pre, pre construction. You know, people would put it under contract, and then, like, a month later, sell it for 50 k, hit. I mean, at the time, I'm, like, 23, 24, so I I don't know what's happening.

I'm just kinda it just didn't seem right. And, yeah, I mean, Miami's I mean, as everybody knows, I mean, it's a shady place. There's money coming in from, you know, all different countries, and there's liquidity. I mean, the whole city was built on, you know, cocaine money in the eighties or whatever it is, and it has that, you know, it has that element to it. So I think, you know, one of the big things that got us through was, you know, we we were getting screwed over left left and right.

When the market was falling, you know, the buyers had all the controls, so they would lock up a deal, and then they would try to back out or hit you with a credit or do whatever it is. I mean, there was times we'd be literally begging investors, hey, just close on this deal. We drained our bank account two or three times the negative. And so but I think throughout the whole thing, no matter all the different things we went through, we kept our principles, our ethics, our morals, and just did business the right way, as hard as it was, because sometimes we could have maybe made a little bit of extra money on a deal Mhmm. Or whatever it is.

But by keeping, our, you know, integrity, reputation, all those things, and and staying true to, you know, the, I guess, our morals and just good business practices, when when the dust settled and everybody went out of business, we had a good reputation, we had good practices, and all that. And I think that served us well, after the market bottomed down and kind of started going back up.

Steve: That makes sense. So when did what kind of volume were you doing? Again, the reason I want to emphasize on this is because there's speculation, like, you know, when's the market going to go down right now. Right? And so you've gone through this cycle before where you kind of saw this kind of happen.

Oliver: Yeah. And

Steve: so I want to, you know, kind of like talk a little bit more about that. So, what was your business like when the market took a, took a tank?

Oliver: I wanna say we probably did let's see. I would say our first year, probably in 2006, we maybe did a hundred hundred houses, 8,100, something like that. 2007, probably about the same. I would say probably, we might have been averaging eight or 10 a month for 02/1967, and eight.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And then who did you see getting hurt when the market took a turn?

Oliver: I mean, you have late adopters, people come into the industry late. You know, you have the people who jump from, you know, this to that. I mean, you know, Bitcoin to, to this now to, you know, from the stock market, the .com thing. So, you know, all the people that jump to where the where they think the money is the late adopters, they got killed because they don't understand the nuance of the business. You have people who held inventory, particularly flips that didn't make sense as rentals.

So if you bought a house for 300,000, the assumption you're gonna sell it for 400,000, and it rents out for 1,500, and you can't sell it, and you're stuck with it, and you have 10 of those, you're done. Mhmm. And so that that was, you know, a lot of the people, you know, people people who were greedy, you know, like I talked about the lending with my old company, I mean, things like that. So people who didn't work hard, you have to have resilience. I mean, things you get, like, punched in the face every day, and you just gotta keep coming back again and again and again.

So

Steve: So then what did you do to turn it around?

Oliver: I don't think there was any, you know, one thing. Like I said, I think just sticking to our principles and our business practices and, you know, our integrity and, like, you know, I think the the learning I had done at RealNet served us really well, plus the operational background that my business partner had. It was really just riding through everything and just coming in every single day, taking it, taking it, taking it. And then, and and, you know, in 2009, like I was telling you before, when the houses that were selling for 180 wholesale went down to 50, and everybody looks at it and is like, wow, you can get a 25% return on this house because it rents out for 1,200, everybody else was gone, and the field was clear, and then you don't have competition. Mhmm.

And then you're kind of, you know, you're riding a, it's, you know, a clear path ahead of you. And so I don't I don't think there was anything really specific that we did to turn it around besides outlast everybody.

Steve: Yeah. So, you outlasted. Opportunities started coming back.

Oliver: Yeah.

Steve: And once opportunities were back, you started picking it up. Yeah. And were you holding on to these, wholesaling these, flipping these?

Oliver: In 2009, we I believe in 2009 or '10, my best friend was in California. He was working for a home builder. And so he had a lot of experience with the construction and management and and stuff like that. So we He came back to Florida. We partnered, me and my my business partner at Meridian, partnered with him in buying properties, and so we raised, I don't remember how much money, but we bought about a 100 houses from 2009 to 2013 in the bottom of the market.

So that that was one thing we did. Like, once those prices, we took advantage of that. And then, what was the other part of the question?

Steve: Well, just what what did you did you wholesale them? Did you keep them?

Oliver: Yeah. So so we kept those, and then the rest we wholesaled. The only property I've ever fixed up and flipped was the house in Pompano that I told you was a complete disaster. I I have no interest in.

Steve: So that changed your taste, for flipping? Yeah.

Oliver: And then when I bought a 100 rentals, that changed, that changed my taste for rentals too because it doesn't scale with economies of scale. It's like as you get, you know, more roofs, more houses, it's more problems, more spread out, harder to manage, more vacancies, and the return just kind of goes down. That's why people buy, I think, buildings. You know, it's one roof. So.

Steve: So, 02/2010, right, bottoms out, and you're starting to acquire and wholesale more. So, what kind of volume were you doing at that time?

Oliver: 2,009 and 10, we you know, I think in 2009, after it flatlined, we were able to really start to put some processes and systems in place in 02/2010, hire some agents, and, you know, just build some infrastructure I would, I don't know, maybe in 2009 or 'ten, we we probably maybe went up to, like, let's call it, 15 houses per month. Mhmm. And then, you know, our first real success, you know, every everything in business, you feel, you you always think it's gonna happen faster than it does, and it's gonna be you're gonna make more money. It's gonna be a shorter time frame, yada yada yada. I'd probably say the the only time that that's ever really happened where it's so far exceeded my expectations, we opened up a second office.

Our first one was in Fort Lauderdale in that original building, but we had moved into a bigger space. We opened up an office in Miami, and, you know, as I was talking to you and some of the other guys, Miami is, you know, it's it's just a different market. It's a place people fear. They don't know it. We opened up that office in Miami.

We got some really good talent. One of my best friend's little brothers came from Canada, moved in. Me and one of the guys from Fort Lauderdale opened up that talent, but there was, like, nobody in that market, and it was super volatile market, and we just had, you know, a ton of success when we went there, far exceeded exceeded our expectations and crushed it. So that was in 2011, and we probably went from, you know, let's call it whatever, 13 to 15 deals a month to 30 or something like that. Thirty, thirty five.

Steve: From opening a second market.

Oliver: From opening that second office. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. And so when when did you say that was approximately?

Oliver: That was 2011.

Steve: 2011. And then when did you open your third market?

Oliver: 2012 in Tampa.

Steve: Okay. So and then this is one thing that just kinda took this exponential

Oliver: Yeah. We got you know, that was good. I mean, that office might have done an extra 10 deals a month or something like that. Then 2013, we opened up an office in Orlando. Same thing.

They were okay. They were never great offices for us. But Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So one of the things I wanted to talk about as well is that, you know, like there's a lot of people that are interested in getting to the business. And the struggle initially is like, man, how do I get my first deal? What do I do? You know, how do I find that?

And once they get it, they're excited. And talk to the seller, like, how do I get them under contract? Then I get them under contract. How do I sell the deal? Like, there's this whole journey, right, to do your first, like, ten, fifteen deals.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: But then after that, everyone's sales and marketing looks pretty similar. Mhmm.

Oliver: And

Steve: so we get to this next challenge, which is people. Mhmm. So, you know, how would you say that your business is different as far as like, you know, recruiting, retention, all those other stuff? Like, how do you guys separate yourself from everybody else?

Oliver: I mean, I think culture is, you know, the the biggest thing and it starts there and really investing in culture and, you know, building as good of a culture as you can, attracting the best people that you can, being selective with who you bring in. And then when you have, you know, really good people, just doing everything in your power to, you make them happy. I look at it now as like I work for them. It's like how can I clear the path? Because I have people in marketing, finance, tech, people on my sales floor, or technicians, the sales finance, all that stuff, they're better than me at those things.

I don't have the expertise in each one of those, so it's like, how can I kind of make all of those work together, clear their barriers and obstacles? I mean, my sales guys know 10 times more than I do about the intricacies of the deal, and, you know, my marketing guy knows more about, you know, marketing and sales leadership and, you know, all all those different things. So, you know, it's really you kind of, I think, you go into more of a mode of nurturing and and, you know, clearing the path.

Steve: So culture is something that people talk about.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And everyone says they want good culture. How do you demonstrate? How do you develop

Oliver: developing a good culture. I mean, you have to listen to, you know, feedback from people. I'm I try to meet with everybody in the company once a month, and and and just kind of a a free free chat. Like, hey. Tell me what's going on.

What's what's going on. What's good? What's bad? What issues? Do you have any good ideas?

And, that's been a really helpful thing. Now, I have to split it into where I meet half the company each quarter. And so that that's been really helpful, getting the feedback, responding to the feedback. Can you do something? You know, yes.

Let them know. If you can't, why can't you do it? So I think communication is a big component of it. I think our office space lends a really big, part. You know, we we kind of created this open, you know, West Coast type of environment and culture, and it's bright, and we play music, and we just went into no dress code.

You could wear whatever you want. I mean, we have some people wear a three piece suit, and now people wear shorts and hats and flip flops, which I'm very against, but they they all give me shit for that because I whatever. They they can wear whatever. So so I think it's just catering to that, and then, you know, naturally in your company, when you when you start it, you know, me and my business partner, our DNA is coded into the company because you're gonna hire the people that match your DNA. Mhmm.

And then, you know, you kind of look, and there's some exercises, I think, in traction or whatever it is. There's one called Mission to Mars to, like, looking at it and saying, like, okay, well, what is that? Like, how do you extract what that DNA is? What are those value systems? And then once you kinda have that really hiring people that match those values and, align to those values and kind of getting a bunch of like minded people together.

And I think that will just build on top of itself.

Steve: Another thing that we were talking about on the phone at some point was virtual wholesaling. You know, like it's really popular, really sexy right now. Mhmm. The last couple years, it's been pretty popular and pretty sexy. Mhmm.

But you were doing it before.

Oliver: Yep.

Steve: Talk about that.

Oliver: Yeah. We started the company in 2006 and it was all virtual. So we were sending, you know, letters and doing different things to find deals in all the different markets in Florida and, we were working a lot with wholesalers in those markets to sell the deals and, yeah, we were doing it virtual, and we would get feedback from the investors, and we would adjust prices and do different things. You didn't have, you know, there was RealQuest back then, but there wasn't the mapping systems and you know, satellite views and all that stuff. So, you know, we we just did it, and, I don't know, figured it out, and and it worked for a while.

Steve: What were you doing back then? So you're doing direct mail predominantly, or were you doing

Oliver: Yeah, predominantly.

Steve: Okay. So you weren't, like, cold calling?

Oliver: No. I mean, you didn't have skip tracing, cold calling. I mean, we don't do that stuff now, but but we don't, yeah, we didn't have any of

Steve: that stuff. So you're sending them direct mail. They call you, and then there's a

Oliver: conversation from there.

Steve: Pretty much.

Oliver: Gotcha. I mean, RV, it's funny because I used to tell my boss at RealNet, I was like, man, I'm like, I feel like if you could just get because back then they had dialers, you know, it was a it was a big thing. I had a friend who had an insurance business, and they ran the whole business off it. I was like, I feel like if you could do dialers in this industry, it would work, And I would always talk about it, and we we never did it. It was a much more complex.

You had to run it through do not call list and all this stuff like that. But I guess now it works, and, you know, people are doing that and doing well with it. So

Steve: someone made a comment here. E Russo, Meridian crushed direct mail in South Florida. How much were you guys mailing per month? So how much were you guys mailing per month back then?

Oliver: Back when?

Steve: When you were Meridian.

Oliver: When we were Meridian? A lot. A lot. A lot. I don't even remember at this point, but a lot.

Steve: So at some point, you transitioned from Meridian to Property Force. Mhmm. What was the reasoning behind that?

Oliver: In 2014, my business partner and I, we both wanted different things. Really, our visions for the future changed. Mhmm. I kinda wanted to, like, really grow the company aggressively, and, you know, I think he was happy with where it was. We were I mean, it was good.

We were making a lot of money. Everything was, you know, going well, But, you know, I think once that vision changes, it makes it really hard. You know, small decisions, become big deals, you know. So, that that was splitting. I ended up buying him out at the end of, 2014.

And then at the end of February and then through through 2015, I was like, how can I kind of build this? How can I make it more scalable? And so through a lot of, like, you know, consulting and talking it through, we decided to consolidate our four offices into one location. Absolutely horrible the way that we did it. Change management, and I didn't even know change management existed.

We built this whole office ready to go, you know, shut down the four offices in in, like, one day, drove around the state. It it was a mess, but, you know, we consolidated to that. We wanted to, you know, rebrand ourself. Meridian Trust just kinda had more of a financial bank refilled, didn't really talk about what we did, so we figured Propertyforce, was, you know, a little bit more industry specific. We were always wanting to be big and push the envelope with technology, so it had a little bit of a technology type of feel to it.

And we got the domain for, I think, like, $3. That was a, you know, hard thing is finding a .com now. So, yeah, that was it. We rebranded.

Steve: Yep. So I like that, you know, you're talking about rebranding, targeting, you know, for like this this tech feel.

Oliver: Mhmm. So,

Steve: you know, and doing my own research, checking out the website, looks super clean.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: It does feel very techie. What does Property Force do differently than other people in Florida and Georgia? Like, how are you guys setting yourself apart from the competition?

Oliver: I mean, I think the culture piece is is really big and putting a lot of emphasis on that, or really bringing in, like, high level, you know, people and professionals. And then I think the technology piece, I mean, you invest a a lot of money in, technology and just, you know, ways we can streamline things, automate things. We I know a lot of people I've listened to the show use Podio, and that's built out. And I I I don't really know about it. I haven't done it.

I mean, we we have spent millions on Salesforce over the last, like, eight, nine years. I'm a huge believer of that. I've gone to their conference in San Francisco twice and all the different things that they're doing and adding on. But it's it's expensive. And so, you know, just doing whatever we can to constantly I think staying in the niche is a really big thing.

I don't have any interest in flipping. I don't have interest in holding rentals. I told you I like hard money. I like hard money because I don't have to do anything for it. I can concentrate everything on the wholesale business, but it's constantly looking at, like, okay, how can we, you know, stay focused and stay in our lane, buy and sell wholesale, and then how can we do everything we can around that to improve the process, tighten the process, make it better and better while staying into that niche?

Steve: So how's Let's pretend I'm a homeowner. Mhmm. Why should I sell a property for us versus, you know, some other wholesaler?

Oliver: I mean, you know, professionalism. We really try to, I know, do our best to, give a good service, make it really easy for them, give give good customer service, and, you know, commit to deals. Like, if we say we're gonna close on a deal, like, we're gonna close on it. I mean, things happen. We have to back out here and there.

Mhmm. But, you know, just really trying to give a professional, give good customer service, put a lot of emphasis on, you know, training. We wanna get into more developmental training and, month.

Steve: Right? Mhmm. 70 to 100. Like, that's a whole another, you know, a month. Right?

Mhmm. 70 to a 100, like, that's a whole another realm. Mhmm.

Oliver: Because

Steve: I I gotta believe, you know, going from 10 to 20 is is is one big challenge. Going from 20 to 40 is gotta be another major challenge. 40 to 100 is gotta gotta be another major challenge.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: So what does someone who wants to be like you five years, like, what

Oliver: what kind of pains 10 houses?

Steve: What kind of pains do they have to look forward to if they wanna build a property for us?

Oliver: Look, a lot. I don't know. I mean, to start, I mean, the market, you know, like at the end of the day, you know, we ebb and flow with the market. A lot of times when we do a lot of deals, it's because there was a lot of turnover in the market. There was a lot of house sales or whatever it is or cash sales.

You know, you have to contend with the market. I mean, the market has to change at some point. I mean, I think I thought it was gonna happen for the last three years. I think it's softening now, so it's just, you know, pivoting. I I mean, who knows?

Right now, you could buy a lot from direct to sellers. It could go back to foreclosures and short sales, and, you know, can you figure out how to buy them? But, you know, if everything was to say constant and nothing changed, you know, to go from 10 to 30 or something. I I would say it probably has a lot to do with delegation. You know, can you, you know, get people that are gonna be able to buy or acquire as good as you can on the phone and, you know, motivate those people?

And and, you know, that that's a part of it. I would say delegating is big. And systems and processes, really setting up, like, good, consistent systems, processes, and following them and, you know, staying focused on the niche.

Steve: Systems and processes, getting them to follow it.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: Or having good systems and processes. Mhmm.

Oliver: How

Steve: did you create those?

Oliver: I have a very process minded brain, so I can look at something and see where there's redundancy. Or, you know, it's like, hey. This is an extra step. Or, hey. There's too much control by management.

There's too much red tape in this. Like, let the person have discretion. So I'm I'm able to look at processes like that. I think also having outside coaches, consultants, things like that that can help you look at them as really good. I can do that.

I cannot run processes, though. Like, once it's like, hey, this, you know, we've reduced step, you know, two and five, and now it's better, and now this has to go over and over and over and over. That's I have no clue how that happens. I, you know, it's not my strength. It was my old business partner's strength, and now people in the company who have that.

But, you know, it's not just structuring the process, but then it's, like, making sure people are following it all the time, having the checkpoints. You know? I I know everybody reads traction and stuff. So, the scoreboards and, you know, KPIs where you can identify, okay. Here's a problem number.

Well, let's look into the number and maybe something in that process fell off.

Steve: So how do you get someone to consistently follow the processes? Because I think that's one of the challenges too, right? Like, you can have the best systems and processes in place and give it to an employee. How do you ensure, you know, that whole thing, like, you know, inspect what you expect? How are you guys doing that?

Fear. No. I'm kidding. I don't know.

Oliver: No. I I I don't know. Like I said, I it's really not my expertise. I think it's you hire the best manager or the best person who can make sure everybody underneath them follows the process. They might have different ways ensuring how that how the people that report to them are gonna follow their processes.

Mhmm. But I think it's finding that right person that who's gonna manage that process on top of it, or on top of that department, or whatever it is, and and leaving it to them because they're better at that type of thing. So I I I can't give you best practices. Yeah. The biggest thing I have is, you know, KPIs and scoreboard.

I mean, I'm a humongous believer. We spent a ton, like I said, in Salesforce, and one of the best things at Salesforce is you get live reporting with the dashboards. And I'm sure Podio has has the same thing. Mhmm. But by constantly, for me, monitoring those numbers on the dashboards is really big, and then also we have, like, that exact traction, scoreboard built out where every important number is there.

So for me, looking at it on the bigger picture and a lot of different numbers, if I see, you know, a number of leads are down, you know, by 50%, well, okay, let's dive into there and see why maybe the mail process was messed up or something like that. And that that's really what where my where I come into it. Well, I

Steve: like that. So going to 30, we talked about some of the challenges you're gonna have. 30 to 60, what new sets of challenges are you gonna face?

Oliver: I I you know, for us, I I didn't see a big difference from going from 10 to fifty, sixty. I I think it was the same, like develop the systems, build the culture, bring in the right people, all that kind of stuff like that. And I didn't see much of a different thing with that. It's more sixty, seventy to one fifty, you know, 200. And that's, you know, where I'm still at trying to kind of figure that out, But that's really, you know, the big part in in an entrepreneur group, and they call it the desert, where a lot of companies, you know, get to.

And some of the guys in my group are all kind of in that same, you know, position. And it's it's tough because you have to take it's like, one step back to take two steps forward. So a lot of times, you have to eat into profitability, put some extra technology systems, people, x y z, cut into your EBITDA or your margins, to to kinda go past and, you know, breakthrough to that next level. And that, I think, the main thing is around people, like we kind of talked about, and bringing in the right people.

Steve: Can you elaborate a little bit on the on the

Oliver: desert? On the desert?

Steve: How do you know you're in the desert?

Oliver: You plateau. You know, you're you've hit a, you know, a certain point, and you, you, for us, it's like, you know, you put in infrastructure on that next level, but you haven't gone to the next level. Like, our infrastructure is built for 150, 200 properties, which obviously costs a lot of money. But we're not at 150, 200. So it's can you stomach that?

You're making really good money at, let's just call it, 50 deals per month, 40 deals per month. And then to go to that next level, you have to invest in infrastructure.

Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Carlos Balazan's got a question here is, how

Oliver: are you guys hiring effectively? We use PI. So, you know, doing that, hiring for value.

Steve: You wanna elaborate? Not everyone knows what PI is.

Oliver: Predictive index. It's a really good tool. It's it's awesome. Have you done it? Yeah.

Steve: I don't

Oliver: It's great. If you're

Steve: not if you don't take the predictive index test with me, I'm not even gonna meet with you. Yeah. Yeah. Because it tells me whether I actually wanna meet with you or not.

Oliver: Yeah. So we have a guy who's he's, like, 85 or whatever. He comes in. He actually interviews most high level people we have, and he's he he owns the franchise or whatever it is for predictive index in South Florida. So our our our in house, talent acquisitions recruiters, I don't exactly know his title, Brian.

Anyways, he went and did a course, with him, learned all about it. And so what it basically is is it's awesome. I mean, the DISC is great too, I think, but this test takes, I I don't even know, like three minutes for somebody to do. They pick a bunch of words out of a thing, and then it spits out, what that person's profile is, like what they're good at, what they're bad at, what their personality type is, and just really a whole breakdown on that person. And so, obviously, you know, one of the big things I've learned, and maybe one of the big things of challenge of getting to an excellent level, like I said, it's all about right people.

Sometimes you have the right people that are in the wrong seat. So it's, you know, figuring out, making sure you're hiring the best person for the seat, not just for you as a benefit as a business owner, but for the person. When you bring the wrong person, they're in the wrong seat. Their life's miserable. You get them into the right seat, and, you know, it it changes fast.

So And I

Steve: think it's a really good point. Right? Like, DISC is amazing. There's nothing wrong with DISC. Right?

Right. I think DISC is good when you're first getting started.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: But in order to scale effectively, I've I'm a recent convert into predictive index, and Yeah. I love it.

Oliver: Yeah. Somebody told me about it a while ago, and I kind of I didn't take notice of it, and then it got told to me by four or five different people. And I was like, let me let me check this out. And it it's it's amazing.

Steve: Right. So Jacob Klein wants to know what are your top marketing methods today?

Oliver: It's a combination of, you know, direct mail, internet. We've done some billboard stuff, radio, you know, TV, kind of mixture, a bunch of different things.

Steve: Okay. So let's say you had the opportunity to go back to 2004.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: Talked to young Oliver. Yes. What will you tell them?

Oliver: I took notes because you asked me this question before. So okay. What would I do differently? I I think the biggest thing is it like, you know, keep going back to the people. Just being more patient with people, you know, looking at things and saying, you know, what was my part in this interaction with somebody?

You know, and that's internal people, external people. I have a very, you know, maybe seem laid back in certain ways, but when it comes to business, very like hard charging. I want things done and, you know, want to move really quickly. And, you know, some people don't work like that, so it's recognizing the differences. That, for sure, you know, creating a growth path within the company on the sales side, I probably would've done that differently.

And then, just being open minded to other people's opinions and perspectives on things, as well as learning about change management. I like change. I adapt really quickly. I I almost need something to be kind of moving, but most people aren't. And I would have taught myself about change management, took a course on it, because like I said, we shut down the four offices in 2015 and just walked in one day.

I was like, okay, it's done. And we didn't even know change management was a term, and there's there's methodologies and ways to go about it, and I would have loved to to known that other people didn't adapt to change as fast as I did, and then actually learned best practices on how to implement change, which now I have people that know a lot about that, and I've learned a lot about it. So

Steve: I've never heard the term change management until today. Good. But Research it now. I have learned making changes pisses a lot of people off. Yes.

It does.

Oliver: So I

Steve: have learned a couple of things just from mistakes. Right? Like, you know, like, whoever the influencer is in the room Mhmm. Tell them about the change before you tell everybody else. Mhmm.

What other things would you recommend from change like, what lessons did you learn from change management that could you know, people here could benefit from?

Oliver: I think getting people's input on things, giving them opportunity to help with the change that you're trying to do, getting their perspectives on things, not throwing everything at some you know, not making the change. Oh, shut down the offices the next day, you know, giving people, preparation time, explaining it. There's actually a very good article by I believe the restaurant group is called Zinger or Zingerman's or something like that. I can find it and send it to you, and you can, like, tag it onto here. And it's really all about change management.

But really, like, I'm learning a lot about it from some of the people that we've brought in from, you know, bigger companies who have, like, real training on that. So I'm really just learning about it. I'm just, you know, more knowing, okay, now it's a term and really understanding, well, everybody doesn't, you know, like, change as much as I do.

Steve: So I read Profit First. It's a great book. Everyone that's listening should definitely read it at some point. Mhmm. One of the things things talks about is, you know, payroll, like, the best time to run payroll.

It's like, okay. Great. Read that book. It's like, okay. Payroll, the best days to do payroll is this day and this day.

Mhmm. So I

Oliver: called

Steve: the account. I said, hey. We're we're doing payroll on this day and

Oliver: this day.

Steve: Okay. Didn't communicate that message to anybody. Yeah. Yeah. People freaked out.

Like, people were talking about quitting their jobs. Like, wow. Like, I had no idea. Like, just moving the payday just a couple days Yeah. Would change things drastically, but that was a lesson learned.

Oliver: I mean, sometimes even yeah. Well, anything with comp is ultra sensitive. Right? So but, you know, even good changes can be sometimes taken, like, oh, what what's gonna happen if you know, for example, same thing with pay. It's like we used to pay every two weeks out commissions, and I think now we pay out every one week, which seems better, right, for everybody to get paid faster.

But, I mean, there was pushback on that too. So, you know, with some of the stuff, I I I think, you know, there's just gonna be, yeah, issues. But when it comes to comp and stuff like that, it's ultrasensitive. So

Steve: So you mentioned also, giving people a path for growth or growth vision. I can't remember exactly words you used. Yeah. Can you elaborate on that?

Oliver: Yeah. I mean, we're we're kind of still working on that, and I think that that's gonna be a big instrumental part in kind of scaling to the next level. But it's, you know, how do you retain, the best people, and how do you kind of give them a growth path internally? And what we're, you know, where where a lot of my focus has gone to, you know, just in my evolution of things is, you know, I think on Tony Robbins has, like, the six needs, and the top two needs are personal growth and, contribution. Personal growth has always been, like, a huge one for me.

Contribution is kind of, like, where I'm getting to now. It's like how can you help other people create Mhmm. And fulfill their own dreams, or I I call it a painted picture. It's like visualizing your life in three years, five years from now. So that's where, you know, really, now that I have specialists in different departments of my business, that's where I'm trying to kinda come in and lay a foundation for people that they could come to our company and, you know, say, hey, what do you what does your ideal or your perfect life look like?

Because everybody's is different. And so once you know that, having our company be a platform for people to come and kind of, like, fulfill those dreams and us to help them, you know, structure that, I think that's part of it. And then, yeah, just giving a growth path, through, you know, maybe dispositions, acquisitions, and then some kind of, like, you know, regional manager type of thing. We're kind of working through that right now. So

Steve: Gotcha. And this is a slightly nuanced question. So if the answers are the same, just let me know. Mhmm. What advice would you give somebody that's starting in wholesaling today?

Oliver: I I think it's a really tough time to start because I think it's a lot of people really getting into it. I think it's a lot of people who don't know what they're doing. I question how many of the people teaching it really maybe know what they're doing. Some do. I'm sure some don't.

I don't really know, but it's a time I would be apprehensive about getting into it. Like I said, I mean, to me, there's a lot of similarities now to February '6, where, you know, the market's at an all time high, and its late adopters kind of getting in. And once you kinda start to see that thing happening, everybody's in real estate and getting into all this stuff. Mostly, it's like, you know, the writing's on the wall for something to change. So I would be apprehensive, but if somebody is gonna get into it, you know, if you are that type of person that can go and learn, and I'm sure there is a lot of good inform I mean, I know there's a lot of really good information out there to learn, and there are some people who are teaching it that are really good.

Find the best person. And if you're that type of person that can create systems, manage systems, your brain works like that, great. Go and do it. But if you don't and your brain doesn't work like that and you work better within a system or within a structure, then go reach out to somebody like us or you guys or, you know, other companies out there who have a system and and structure set up and, you know, join into that, be a part of be a part of something like that. So Well,

Steve: I like, you know, you guys started at a company. You worked there for two years. Yeah. Right? Like, one of the complaints I hear from time to time is, like, I'm training my competition.

Like, I trained

Oliver: to dial

Steve: you up and you left to compete against me. Right? That's life. Mhmm. Right?

And so and I think there's ways to prevent that. I don't wanna get into it right now.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: But you worked for somebody for two years Mhmm. To cut your teeth, did it walk through a few 100 houses. Yep. And so I've actually had people, you know, I have calls with about selling, you know, coaching and so on. And I'll talk to them, really understand their situation.

I was like, look, you can't sign up for my coaching right now because the things I'm gonna teach you, you

Oliver: can't even do it. Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, what you need to do is go plug in with someone in your market. And fortunately, I know most of the markets. Like I said, you need to go talk to this person. It's like, I'm basically like a recruiter, a long distance recruiter for some of my buddies now.

But I think that's a good point, right? Like, if you're trying to get started today, you don't necessarily need to go start from zero. You can work with somebody and get paid to learn.

Oliver: Yeah. I mean, that's what we're trying to do is like, you know, obviously retention is a big thing, and especially the people who are really good, and we want people you know, our kind of thing now is, like, hey. Build a business within our business. And so, and let us help you kind of, you know, get to your dreams and goals and, you know, all that different stuff. But, yeah, there there's a lot of nuances in this business.

I mean, people I tell people who aren't in wholesale, what do I do? They're like, I'm like, oh, I'll buy a house for, you know, 60 and sell it for 70. They're like, oh, that's great. You make $10,000 on the deal. Seems so easy.

Mhmm. There's so many nuances within that and then all the systems and structures and things around that. So, you know, I think, think, you know, when the market's going good or everything's hot, you know, it's not that hard to do a few deals. Like, when things change, it gets hard and, you know, you need to understand and, like, know about those nuances, and that's where I'm a little bit of fearful because, you you know, I'm looking at all the informations out there. It it's actually good, and we were talking about that before at lunch.

I wasn't really, you know, paying attention to industry stuff, and about a year ago, I, you know, left my business for a little too long and traveled. And when I came back, I'm like, wow. There's all this good information out there. There is a lot of good information. There's a ton of it, though.

So what do you use? Like, when do you use that information? And it it's complicated, and it's confusing, but I think there is a lot of good information out there, and everybody can learn from it, and the collaboration and the network

Steve: greatest challenges, and, you know, I feel bad for some of these guys because there's so much information out there, and relevant, good information.

Oliver: Yeah.

Steve: But how do you have access to the right information at the right time? Like, when you need it, the timeliness of the information.

Oliver: Correct. Well, so so that's like the biggest thing. I have a million ideas, and I and I, you know, I I'm a humongous learner. I read as much as I can, like, you know, watch things, podcasts, all that stuff. So it's like having a ton of information, but when you pick the wrong thing to do and you set off down a path, it's a huge you know, you you pick the wrong thing or at the right wrong time, and you go three, four months down a rabbit hole.

You've done change. You've done all those different things like that. You spent money. You've done all this stuff, and then you have to pull it back. So I think, there's brain types out there that are, you know, I I had a a coach that I worked really well with, and I looked at it as a there's, like, all these dots in my head, like millions of them, and, like, within there, you know, one out of 10 of them is a really good idea.

And one of them out of 10 might be okay, and the rest are just shit are shit. And so that's my first curse. Right? Yeah. So okay.

I was trying to lay lay off the cursing. But so so and and what he was really good at is I would, you know, tell him all my ideas, and he would be like, okay. That's a really good idea, but we can't do that for three months, or that's a really good idea, and you could do it right now. This is an awful idea. You can't do it.

So I think maybe finding that person who you can kind of bounce that because there there is brain types that they work like that, and it it really is important. There's so much information. I mean, not just in this industry with everything now. There's just over content, so what do you use when? What are you ready for?

What's really good information? What's bad? It's it's hard.

Steve: Which one's the right for you

Oliver: and your

Steve: personality type? Your business, your market.

Oliver: Yeah. And everybody's different. Exactly.

Steve: Yeah. So we had lunch right before this, interview. And, you know, one of the guys said jokingly, like, you know, What's the magic pill? What's the secret sauce? And my answer to him, Well, Oliver's been doing it for fourteen years.

And you corrected me.

Oliver: Yeah. Sixteen.

Steve: You've been doing it for sixteen years. Yeah. All the time. You've been wholesaling for sixteen years. Right?

Right. So I'm gonna lean heavily on you on this one. You're seeing the indicators. You're seeing the market. You can you're paying attention, and you've been through this once before.

What are you gonna do when the market takes a dip?

Oliver: What are what am I gonna do? What's

Steve: what are you gonna do?

Oliver: I mean, I think you you really have to understand your numbers. You know, you have to know, like, where your good marketing sources are, where your bad ones, what are your good markets, what are your bad markets, and then, you know, pivoting. You gotta move quickly, and that's where the change part of my personality comes in is when things do change. I like, you know, I like change. I don't like a down market, but I'll I'll always just figure it out.

And I think it's just you you gotta pivot and change, and I think, it's it's taking a risk, pivoting, a leap of faith into something maybe new. We had to switch from direct mail back in 02/1967 into REOs and short sales, and then Altisource, and all those things, and figuring that stuff out, and then just the resilience to just kind of keep plugging and plugging away until something sticks. And, yeah, I mean, understanding both sides of the business, the disposition, the acquisition side, staying lean, knowing where your P and Ls are and where your costs are, like where can you shave if you need to, switch on a dime, like I talked about the marketing spend, what's good, what's bad spend, you know, all that.

Steve: So what I'm hearing is there is not like a specific tactic or or marketing or or anything you're gonna do. It really is gonna be you know your business so well that you can adjust faster than everybody else.

Oliver: Yeah. And that's where I that's where I said if I was new coming into wholesale, I'd be really fearful because I could say I could sit here and, you know, talk about that for an hour. What are you gonna do? But if you don't have the experience, if you haven't, like, crawled through the cracks, if you don't know the nuances, nothing I I don't I don't think anything's gonna help you. I mean, I I I just don't.

That's just that's what I think. But It's an honest answer. Work hard. Yeah. I mean, who who knows?

You know? Scale down, get small. That's that's, you know, one way. Cut cost and all that. And yeah.

Steve: So Knockout Miami wants to know, how are you paying your agents? So I guess that's

Oliver: a

Steve: great segue here. Or, you know, we haven't really talked about it. Is Propertyforce a brokerage?

Oliver: Yep.

Steve: Okay.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: So then, how do you pay your agents? On commission. Commission.

Oliver: Yep. On the spread.

Steve: Okay. And then, let's see what else is there. I love watching.

Oliver: Can you recommend any good this is Hugo Cabrer.

Steve: Any good REI meetups in the Fort Lauderdale area?

Oliver: No. I haven't I haven't been to one in one at a time. But I'm I'm sure online, you could find a lot of stuff. I I don't know how the Brias are. I know before they were super old school.

Mhmm. I don't know if they're probably better off watching this show or, you know Yeah. Getting information online, but I'm sure some of them are good. I I don't know. I haven't been in a long time.

Steve: So who was on this show not that long ago? Older guy. Someone that seasoned. Oh, Matt Larson. That's someone that you know.

Mhmm. Yeah. So he was saying, like, you know, it's it's interesting to see this phenomena where Phoenix seems to be the guru capital of the world. Mhmm. But not too long ago, it was actually Tampa.

Oliver: Right.

Steve: Yeah. So have you seen I don't know. Is there any, you know, thoughts on that? Have you seen anything there where observations you can make on that?

Oliver: On the guru market switching to Tampa?

Steve: Or that it was Tampa? Like, do you were you connected with it?

Oliver: It was Tampa before, and now it's Phoenix? Yeah. Oh, because I would I don't know. I mean, I always thought Phoenix was it seemed like where all the marketers came from, and

Steve: the I mean, Joe Polish here doesn't probably doesn't hurt.

Oliver: Yeah. Joe Polish and Dean Graziosi and those guys are kinda from the Phoenix market, and so I don't know. I mean, I always kind of thought it was Phoenix. I didn't know that it was ever Tampa. But, no.

I mean, I don't, Yeah. No. I I don't know. I don't pay too much attention to it. I mean, I I like watching all the stuff and getting in information and everything like that, but I'm not.

Yeah. I don't know.

Steve: So what drives you? What is your why?

Oliver: I think, like I said, I I like building. I like creating. I like, taking risks, you know, having a vision and then building towards that vision, and, you know, taking challenges. Personal growth is a humongous motivator for me. I love learning.

I love, like, getting information from different sources, siphoning it down, implementing it, executing it in our company. And then, you know, really now, I think, you know, I'm not totally where I wanna be financially. I I still, you know, want, you know, more, and, you know, money is obviously a motivator. But I think now it's kinda getting a little bit into the contribution thing of of what I talked about with the Tony Robbins and, you know, paving the way for other people, watching other people become successful. You know, our a lot lot of our, agents or even people who aren't agents in our company buying rental properties or doing hard money loans or doing flips and kind of seeing them do that and seeing them kind of, work towards their goals and, you know, get get things that are important to them outside of, you know, real estate or money or anything like that.

So that's kind of, you know, become a big motivator for me. And then, yeah, creation, I think, and and problem solving, solving, but just creating a vision is the is my biggest driver. I I love the challenge. Like, I'll never stop. I I just wanna keep growing.

Steve: You're not the kind of person that's just gonna retire.

Oliver: No. Yeah. I I can. And even if it's, you know, getting involved in a small business and helping it grow, I just have to push forward, and and that was, like, what I talked about with my business partner is, like, he was different. Like, we had a really good business, and some sometimes I'm looking like, why did I even, like, wanna take on the challenge of growing it?

But I kinda know now. I mean, he was happy with, and you know, some like I said, sometimes maybe I should have been happy with what what we're doing, but I need that challenge. I need that You need growth. All the time. Yeah.

I need growth. And that that's that's my biggest thing.

Steve: So one thing I didn't ask you I was curious about was how was the expansion into Georgia. Right? Like, you you kind of like swallowed Florida gradually. And then, we're just going to go ahead and open another state. Yeah.

How was that journey?

Oliver: It was actually good in Georgia. It was a slower process than we thought and we opened up Georgia and you know, built some investors there, got our list together, all that stuff, and then, you know, went into that market, made mistakes, went into, you know, areas that were a little bit too, like, rural, and, you know, different things, and, you know, you learn. And and and we actually did that market really good. After we did that market successfully, we tried to go into, like, five states in the next, like, four months or three months or something like that. But that was that was more of a disaster than Georgia was actually good.

It was what the the the confidence that it gave us to feel like we could just, oh, we were gonna go nationwide tomorrow, and that wasn't the case.

Steve: Slightly different. Yeah.

Oliver: One

Steve: thing I was I read, in in looking you up was you kinda have a similar, goal that I have Mhmm. In that eventually, I wanna wanna start buying and helping small businesses like Marcus Lemonis. Correct. Like, I love The Profit Show. I haven't watched in a very, very long time.

Same. But I love that idea. So I just I thought that was cool.

Oliver: That's Yeah. That's eventually what I would love to start to do, is, you know, have our culture bring in the right people and, you know, create a place, like I said, a property force, a platform where people can come, you know, fulfill their own dreams, paint a picture. It's all different doing that and, you know, implementing a lot of stuff I learned from outside coaching. But then eventually, that would be awesome. I would love to just, you know, buy a business that's, you know, 500,000, 1,000,000 in revenue, like, essentially the 10 house business Mhmm.

Because I loved going from, like, the 10 houses to the fifty, sixty houses. That part of the business was awesome, and I would love to, you know, get involved in that, which is pretty much what the Marcus Lemonis thing is. And so, yeah, that would be great to do that.

Steve: A little bit of a growth junkie.

Oliver: Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: So you mentioned earlier, you know, you're you're in the desert, you kind of plateaued.

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: What is your biggest struggle right now?

Oliver: I I think it's it's just bringing in the right people, and then, delegating, not abdicating, staying balanced between, you know, I've had times where, you know, I've been all over the business, and you're trying to do everything myself, and then times where I'm like, oh, I got this all figured out. Like, let me just go hands off. So for me, like my biggest struggle right now.

Steve: Every time I've said those words, it's come back to bite me.

Oliver: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like keeping the balance. You bring the right people in, like I said, get out of their way, like make things good for them, and then, you know, but still check-in and still keep your finger on the pulse of everything. And so that's, you know, for me, my theme, say for 2020. 2019 was balanced.

2020 is slow and steady wins the race. You know, delegate, not abdicate. So.

Steve: How many hours would you estimate you're working a week running property for us?

Oliver: I mean, when things are going good, 20 to 25, and but I I think outside of the office, I try to, I'm trying to do a thing where now Thursdays, I work from home because a lot of my best thoughts come when I'm outside of the office. I'm constantly, you know, note taking in my phone, and I have different systems of organization for all that stuff. But, yeah, when things are going good, you know, took twenty, twenty five hours in the office, constantly thinking about it, probably a hundred hours a week. And then but things can go awry, and, I could be working sixty, seventy hours a week. And, you know, that ebbs and flows at the beginning of the quarter, or kicking, you know, in between the new quarter could go to forty, fifty hours.

Annual planning and rolling out, that that can go more. A big thing I found is is I'm a morning person, so I've become a morning person. I wasn't, but I try to get up at five, 05:30, get to my office by six, 06:30, and from six to nine or 06:30 to nine, I look at their they're like double hours, basically. I think two, three hours then is worth worth five or six hours once everything starts. So I've kind of gotten a really good system or more.

Yeah. That morning time, I look at it as double time, and then, you know, I try to do the rest of my meetings and cadence and when people coming in from, you know, whatever it is, nine to twelve, and then leave, and I have the whole day to, you know, do my thing. Right. So

Steve: Knockout Miami had another question, which is, are all your guys licensed are all your acquisition disposition people licensed? Yeah. Gotcha. And then Bernard Mac wants to know, how are you finding your investors?

Oliver: A lot off of tax records and searching through tax records and finding people that I bought close by and then just, you know, putting them into our Salesforce, databasing them, and all of that.

Steve: How big is your organization? People wise? Mhmm.

Oliver: About 29 to 30 reps and then probably 15 to 17, but close to 50.

Steve: Close to 50?

Oliver: Mhmm.

Steve: Okay. What is the greatest lesson you've learned?

Oliver: I think, you know, we talked about it. I mean, just get the right people, and now give them what they need, servant leadership. Yeah. And, yeah, just, like I talked a lot about the change thing, and change management is probably, that's a huge lesson. I mean, like I said, and then I learned a lot about, like, unit economics from a coach of mine, and P and Ls, and then looking at everything on a P and L, like, oh, we're gonna do this or that, or adjust marketing there, but then, on a P and L.

Like, oh, we're gonna do this or that or adjust marketing there. But then what's, like, the people component of it, and how are those changes gonna affect things and stuff? So so I think a lot of that.

Steve: Is there a book you've gifted more than any other? Rich Ed Portap. It's a cool How

Oliver: to win friends and influence people. Good one.

Steve: So I'm gonna make a quick couple of announcements.

Oliver: Sure.

Steve: Think about what message you wanna leave the listeners with.

Oliver: Okay.

Steve: Guys, we did our workshop a couple weeks ago. We had incredible feedback. Attendees were blown away about our level of transparency, in our business. So if you wanna see the workshop make sense for you, please go to www.disruptors.com. And next week, we've got Tom Kroll with Wholesaling Inc.

We've convinced him to fly in from Florida as well. Oh. He does not wanna fly. So, Pace actually had to go And get drive. Pace had to go to Florida and convince him and close him like that himself

Oliver: Wow. Nice.

Steve: To get him out here. So what message would you wanna leave the listeners with?

Oliver: What message? That's tough. Yeah. I mean, take a risk. You know?

Go for it, whether it's getting into the industry, whether it's trying to level up. You know, take a leap of faith, and then, have the resilience to kinda push through whatever the change may be. And, yeah, just just, you know, do your thing, and, you know, you can kinda work through anything, and it's just a lot of hard work, resilience. There's a quote by a guy. I think his name is Eric Thomas.

Do you know he's like a motivational speaker?

Steve: Yeah. Hip hop preacher.

Oliver: Hip hop preacher. His quote is, everybody wants to be a beast until they see what a beast has to do, and I think it's great. And, you know, you just just go go forward, take a risk, and then just put your head down and, like, plow through whatever.

Steve: Yeah. I love it. That's a great message. If someone wants to get ahold of you, how would they do that?

Oliver: I would say the best way is probably Instagram. And, yeah, my handle is o l I, t like Tom, a l l y. And you can reach me there or, yeah, shoot me an email. Same thing. Ollietallygmail dot com.

Steve: Perfect. Awesome. Thank you very much.

Oliver: Thank you. Appreciate it. Alright. No problem.

Steve: Thank you guys for watching.

Oliver: Thank you.