Passive/Turnkey Investment – Don’t do a lot and become wealthy

Steve Trang: How's organization is up and running in six states, hooked over 1,500 homes, and is gonna do 300 plus transactions this year alone. If this is your first time tuning in, I am Steve Trang, sales trainer for some of the top wholesalers in the country, and I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires. One question I get all the time is how do I become one of the 100 millionaires? And the information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become one in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, you will become one.

When you hear a nugget, please type it into the comment section. And after the after the show, identify your single biggest takeaway and focus on just that for the next seven days. If you get value today, please tag a friend below. Share this episode right now. That way we can all grow together.

And, this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Mark to answer.

Mark: You

Steve: ready? Ready, mate. Alright. Awesome. So first, thank you for coming out here because I understand there was some just getting

Mark: out here. Southwest Airlines is having some challenges, so I had to jump on one of their competitors. But, yeah, I managed to, hobnob it through Denver and and get down here. So You

Steve: made it. So I appreciate that. You bet. Hell or high water. So first question is, what got you into real estate?

Mark: I got into real estate, after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad, and I know that's so cliche because it seems like everyone answers that question. But, at a young age, my father introduced me to the stock market, but it just didn't it didn't resonate with me. It felt like gambling. I felt like I had no control. It felt like, you know, it was something that, you know, it was just kind of out there, and I I couldn't touch it.

I couldn't feel it. I didn't understand it. And, so I guess from an early age, I knew that that wasn't gonna be the way that I would build wealth. So real estate spoke to me. I understood, from an early age that it would be something that I would invest in.

I just didn't realize it would become a vocation at at the same time.

Steve: So when did you re reach that point at?

Mark: In 1999.

Steve: Okay. So this is before you came here?

Mark: Yeah. It was actually right I think I was getting my no. It was while I was in university. Okay. And I was on a summer break back home, wintertime in New Zealand, of course.

And, my uncle and I were talking about it, and just sitting sitting up on a couch and just poured through it in about a day. You know? Just couldn't get enough of it.

Steve: Let's take a step back then. Not born here. So how did you come here?

Mark: I actually was recruited to come play, for, University of Missouri and, played on their, tennis team. So I was an athlete through college, came over on athletic scholarship, stayed on and got my MBA, fell in love, got married, and stuck around.

Steve: Gotcha. So athletic background, scholarship. So maybe possibly a little competitive.

Mark: You wanna jump straight to my superpower, Steve? Yeah. Hypercompetitive. I mean, I have a, I guess, a a story tale, upbringing. You know, my parents, still married, very tight knit family.

I'm number two of four siblings. And as a classic middle child, hyper competitive and always trying to keep up with my older brother, live up to him and his standards. And, my younger sister is a, you know, world class athlete and, in her own right. And, yeah, we've just always been a a sporty family and and, so hyper competitive in athletics, also obviously transferred into business.

Steve: Right. You came here on scholarship. I I remember you shared there was a story that your dad said to you before before you came here.

Mark: Yeah. So, you know, it was one thing to, you know, have the excitement of I'm gonna go to America. Right? I'm born and raised in New Zealand, and I think at the age of 18, I'd I'd already committed to University of Missouri, and, you know, the ego is kinda like, yeah. I'm going to America, you know, telling all your friends and family.

But there was one time around the dinner table that I remember I kind of it was, I think, only about two weeks out and suddenly reality kicks in. And I was thinking to myself at the time, well, you know, if

Steve: it doesn't work out, I can

Mark: I can just always come back? And I remember my father saying, no. You've made a commitment, and you will live into that commitment. And you will spend four years in America, getting a degree, and then you will come home.

Steve: Yeah.

Mark: And it wasn't so much it was a kind of the the harsh reality of it so much as it was, tough love. And, you know, I've talked to him since, and it was clearly just a I knew that that's what you needed to hear at the time because, you know, there are times in life where if you if I had to come over here and just had a a terrible experience my first week, and for clarity, I'd never even been to Kansas City. I accepted the scholarship without even going to the city. No traveling.

Steve: There was

Mark: no there was no tour. I mean, I've been to America with my family and done the Disney thing in California. I'd never gone to Kansas City. So if I came over, had one bad week, and said, oh my gosh. I'm packing my bags.

I wanna come home. It would have spoiled my adventure and spoiled my, opportunity. And I think he understood that and wisely said, hey. Just make the commitment. And I think it was what I needed to to commit to the process.

Steve: Have you ever read the book Grit? No. So there was a story of Steve Young. Right? Because he was playing for BYU.

And he was having a miserable time. Right? Because he was, like, I think, the third string quarterback. And he basically he called his dad. He's like, hey.

This football thing's not for me. I wanna come home. And his dad basically said, yeah. You can do whatever you want, but you're not coming home.

Mark: Like that sometimes, you know, part of parenting and obviously now as a parent of a 15 and a 13 year old, you don't you don't get to say the the sexy thing, the the the friendly thing all the time. Sometimes the tough love is what they need to hear.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So you're back home talking to your uncle about Rich Dad Poor Dad, but you didn't invest in New Zealand No. Investing here. You at least wait till you graduated college before you started investing?

Mark: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. No. It was just it was a passion.

It was kind of fueling the desire. I was starting to read more books about real estate, and then I stayed on and got my MBA, which was great. And, I came out of there and during while I was getting my MBA, worked with my father my future father-in-law, in a small advertising venture, to do with the airline industry. September 11 killed that, business. And during that time period, I'd successfully, bought and sold one house, made decent money that allowed me to, like, okay.

Maybe this is not just a, a if and and maybe. Maybe it's a reality, and let's go see what happens.

Steve: Well, we're very fortunate to have that. Can this be real? Actually become real before everything kinda started falling apart. So then you just jumped right you then you just went all in, shoved all your chips in

Mark: the middle? I paid $5,000 on a credit card at the time, to go down and get trained up on buying house on the foreclosure process. Mhmm. Buying houses on the courthouse steps. How do you do it?

There was a guy down in Springfield, Missouri, Larry Holder. I don't even think he's around anymore, but, he was teaching people how to buy on the courthouse steps and a little bit about real estate and leasing and all that kind of thing. So paid $5, went down there, and invested in myself, make sure I do it the right way. Came back to Kansas City. I went to the courthouse steps, and I realized there's no one here.

Like, it was just me and a couple of other guys. Yeah. And once I learned, you know, the art of buying distressed assets, undervalued assets, it was hard to go wrong. And quite honestly, Steve, it was, yeah, it was it was the glory days. Right?

I mean, now there's, you know, 50 people on the courthouse steps, and even the hedge funds are buying on the steps. But back then, it was, it was a gold mine. It was fun.

Steve: Did you have to run into a, good old boys network at that time?

Mark: No. Not so much. I mean, there was an initial breakthrough, but once you, you know, proved that you had the capital to to buy and you proved, that you, you know, had the staying power and you were gonna be there and you weren't just a, hey. I'm gonna, you know, see what happens and then leave. Once they knew I was there to stay, yeah, there was a a good group of us, and that was, I mean, goodness, seventeen years I've been on the steps.

So it's only been the last three that I've that I've shied away from that.

Steve: How how long did it take to break into it? Because I mean, you you mentioned you had to show it, but because, you know, the the nightmare stories is always the the, the GoToBoys network was like, you know, if you wanna bid, then they're just gonna both outbid you, right, so that you couldn't do it, so you couldn't buy, so that you'd be so discouraged you'll never come back again.

Mark: Unfortunately, when you do that against someone who's super competitive, say, all that does is, you know, build my resolve. Gotcha. Yeah. It was you know, with those, it was back in the day, it was, you had to physically go to the auctions. Mhmm.

You had to drive by the house ahead of time. So sometimes the opening bid for auction would not come in till just a couple hours before. So I might be up late at night till one or 02:00 in the morning, researching all the things, finally find that that an opening bid came in of $20,000 on a $150,000 house. I'm like, man, I gotta run out and check out that that house. Mhmm.

And so I would drive get up early, drive the house early, and be at the and the auction's at 9AM. Mhmm. So you drive out there, check it out, do the due diligence, and you it's just I was first to market and hustled my way into into that, arena.

Steve: That's awesome. And then roughly when was this?

Mark: This is around 2002 and '3 and '4. Okay. Yeah. So So 2002 was my first quarter steps acquisition.

Steve: And that was the you you started buying directly from the auction.

Mark: The first deal I I it was like a actually a referral. I just kinda said, yeah. I'm getting a real estate, and this guy kinda gifted me like a it was a new home builder that gift kinda gifted me a house. That was like, hey. I've got a trade in.

Do you wanna take a look at it? And was distressed. And I'm like, sure. And I'm in there painting it and fixing it up, you know, the first time you do. That was my first one.

But after that, it was, yeah, all caught our steps after that. I just saw this massive chasm of an opportunity and opening, and I

Steve: just went and jumped in. Alright. So then did you at this point, you're a solopreneur, young. You just did everything. You start building out a team because, you know, we've talked about entrepreneurship and talent and everything.

Like, what was young Mark's experience inexperience, naive Mark? Like, how was that experience?

Mark: Yeah. No. I was smart enough to know that I was never gonna be the guy swinging a hammer and nail. Call it too proud or, just not or too dumb because I didn't know all about houses. I never owned a house before.

But, no, I I was I saw my ability to go find the deals, source the deals, and then sell the deals on the back end as, as my, you know, main, staying power. And then the, rehabbers, I let them do their thing. So all about collaboration and and finding the right partner on the, rehab side was, was right from the get go.

Steve: And then how in your best year buying at the auction status, what was your best year?

Mark: Just volume wise. Mhmm. We've I bought a 134 on the courthouse steps.

Steve: In one year? Yep. Alright. So and then when did you change that model, or when did you adjust

Mark: that model? So so, clearly, the thing for me was when auction.auction.com came in and started, offering up all of the information to people, just at the click of a button. It used to be where someone would drive by a house and see that it was, like, abandoned and weeds and and rundown, or maybe not even run rundown, but just weeds and and disheveled and vacant. And they would think, how can I get that house? But they wouldn't know.

Now you just type in an address, and they'll say, yeah. The auction's on Thursday in two weeks' time, you know, because auction.com's done an amazing job of really catering to that that, clientele base. So that changed. And suddenly, we well, we we suddenly saw going from, you know, three guys on the quarter steps to six to 10 to 20, and suddenly it got so ultra competitive. I would go you know, we still had we were so dialed in.

This is, you know, fifteen years from when I first started, so we're really dialed in. So we were still going, but we were getting outbid by $20,000, like, over our max bid. I mean, I don't know even how they were making money. So at that point, you're like, okay. I gotta pivot, and we did successfully.

Steve: Gotcha. Alright. So before I ask you how you pivot, let me ask you, because I think we're way past the statutes of limitations. How many DNEs did you commit buying auction houses?

Mark: You know, the great thing about, HUD is that they are, not too sharp. They, just have one set of keys, and as soon as you get your hands on those set of keys Just need that one

Steve: or that one lockbox code.

Mark: Or that one lockbox code. Yeah. There was a few lockboxes or, you know, that were broken into and and, you know you know, the way I viewed it in my mind was simply if the in a perfect world

Steve: Yeah.

Mark: That I mean, we'd obviously clearly only do it on on vacant properties. Right. And if the banks had their way, they would want want me to go into the house to see how much I could pay for it, you know, just try and give them as much money before they could on the back end. So but, yeah, no. We're them a favor.

We're doing them a favor. Yeah. I know it was a little bit of this and that. But, no, in most part, I mean, I always say, you know, if you're walking around the extra of a home, Steve, and this is a good one for people that are that are getting into the the market now and and a good tidbit for someone that's first starting, you can see the foundation, the roof, the windows, the siding, the AC unit, which gives you an indication of the the heat on the inside. And at the end of that, we we quit doing any crazy things like that really because we're like, look.

We know we're gonna do all new flooring, all new cabinets, all new countertops, appliances, granite. I mean, it's just it's just math. Right? So IJM is doing a little saying in our office. It's just math.

So 17 k for the inside and everything else you can see the the tragic on the outside, and you're you're pretty much there.

Steve: Yeah. I only bring that up just because we were doing a lot of auctions back then. It's like, alright. Who's gonna go into the property? I don't wanna do it.

Right? So who's gonna go? And that was always that, oh, I had to take turns kinda deal. Alright. So you pivoted, you said, around 2006?

Mark: No. So well, the real pit so I was buying on the courthouse steps all the way up until 2017, and that's when we Until 2017. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We were buying all the way up. And then it was because auction.com really gained power in about 02/1516. And Got it. And so but now just for perspective, our best year was a 134 houses on the courthouse steps, and this year, we will buy zero.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I know there was a time where we was like, this is no point. And it was I wanna say it was around, like, 2013, 2014. No. Maybe it was later.

It was when all the hedge funds started buying. Right? Once Blackstone started buying, it was like, well, what's the point? And, like, for us, we will look at it. Like, it was listed as a short sell for a 140, and no one paid it.

And then they will pay for a 170. And it was like, I can't compete because they're willing to pay over market

Mark: Mhmm. At the courthouse steps. But, hey, who's smiling now? Those were great buys then. Right?

Steve: I mean Those were great buys.

Mark: So you guys at the time, you're thinking these guys are crazy. Now we're like, I would love to go back and pay those prices. So

Steve: There are homes that I've shown over here in Maryvale in West Phoenix. I I've so I sold multiple homes between 40,000 and 70,000. Those things are going for over 300. Unbelievable. Only we were smarter.

Well

Mark: and, honestly, I mean, that is, one of my big messages. I mean, obviously, as a turnkey provider, you know, we're selling assets to investors all day long. And, you know, some of them, you know, that are not well trained will come in and say, well, I don't you know, is it really worth that? Or or I feel like I'm paying market value. And I said, look.

If you're buying and holding for twenty years' time, you're just gonna look back and wish you had bought more. I mean, it is what it is.

Steve: Right. Absolutely. And I think that we're we were talking over lunch. There's some, there's a rule of thumb you like to use as far as if you buy so many properties.

Mark: Sure. So, you know, for for all those rookie investment, one of the things that I did well that changed changed my life, changed my family tree, truly, was for every three or four properties that I would buy, I would hold one. Mhmm. And it's painful because you're turning down cash. It's it's acting down revenue.

You could do it's just money in your pocket, but you've got to think of it in terms of, what do they say? Delayed gratification as a sign of maturity, and there's never more so than in real estate.

Steve: Yeah.

Mark: If you can just, you know, forego that wholesale fee of $10 or $20 or whatever it is to hold on to that asset and and own it for the next ten or twenty years, it's just it's the biggest no brain. You can't lose.

Steve: There's a reason why people are buying what you're selling. So alright. So you did the pivot. So what was that pivot?

Mark: So the pivot for us was we were getting, your output on the quarter steps, and that was drying up. Luckily, I'm a part of a real estate mastermind group, which is where I met you, obviously, collective genius, which we kind of like into an insurance policy almost because, when you're going through tough times, you wanna surround yourself with people that have been there, done that, or have the answers. And clearly, I was one of the few that were really buying on the courthouse steps. There's probably only, know, maybe 10 of us in in CG that had any great experience buying on the courthouse steps. Mhmm.

Most of them, we're just sending out mail, and I'm like, mail? Like, you mean people actually answer postcards to say call me? This this can't this can't work. Right. But we pivoted to that.

Obviously, now we've blown it up, and we have just multiple we are committed to multiple channels for acquisition. Mhmm. So we currently get, 50% of our deal flow from wholesalers. We love wholesalers, bringing us deal flow. In fact, one of our, a great thing we're very, very proud of at the office, in fact, I think we even got t shirts, I should have worn it today, made of it is that in 2020, we paid out over a million dollars in wholesale fees, and we love that.

Like, I don't resent that. I love that. Right? Like, I wanna pay out 2,000,000 next year. So we get a lot of deal flow from wholesalers, but also realtors, those soft referrals.

But we are advertising on television, billboard, and then advertising through letters and postcards and flyers and and, you know, yard signs. I mean, you name it. We try and do it all at every professional standard. You know, the one thing we don't do is we try not to do the ugly postcards and the the signs on the corner and the things that are just I feel take it down a notch. You know, we are a professional organization, and I think that's one of the things that real estate investors can get thrown into their little slimy bucket Mhmm.

Because they kinda do things and cut corners and b and e as you mentioned. Yeah. But, you know, we you know, we have four core values. One of them and and first and foremost is professionalism. And and, you know, I try to say to our group, look.

You know, our clients, our high income, high net worth individuals are looking to diversify out of the stock market into real estate have options. Mhmm. One of the options is to invest with Edward Jones of Merrill Lynch or UBS and Paine Webber. Right? They're they they can go put their money there, or they can choose SPD through mistake free real estate and invest in that.

So let's think of ourselves as real estate financial advisors, not real estate investors.

Steve: Yeah. And that positioning there is so crucial. Right? Because it goes through your image, your branding. So when people are looking at you, like, okay.

This is professional organization. I think the branding is absolutely important. So you mentioned a million dollars in fees, and you're hoping to pay 2,000,000 this year. So probably we should discuss what markets you're in if people wanted to send you deals.

Mark: Oh, I would love to. Thank you. So currently, obviously, we we are based in in Missouri, in Kansas City. So that's Kansas and Missouri. We're in the Quad Cities up, in Iowa, Illinois area, and then we're actively in, Montgomery, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Alabama, And now growing into soon to be rolling out at the end of this year, we'll be into, the kind of the midsection, the the central region we're calling it, which is the Northwest Arkansas.

So Fayetteville, Rogers, Springdale, and then Northwest Arkansas, and then Tulsa and Springfield, Missouri.

Steve: I think I don't think I ever heard anyone sit there in Arkansas.

Mark: Dude, love love this area. So Walmart has actually poured so much money and time. And if that's one of the ones that's like, everyone else is kinda looking at the I'm like, no. No. No.

We're going here because it's hot. California not physically, but Californians are flocking to Northwest Arkansas. Obviously, it's a home for Walmart, so that's where most of the the corporate exec jobs goes yeah. Gotcha. So warm Rogers, Arkansas is where Walmart is is headquartered.

So they've poured tons of money into the parks and rec, really high outdoor, almost feels like Colorado, like tons of outdoor activities and things. It's beautiful.

Steve: Yeah. So you mentioned Tulsa because it was, you and I were having a conversation. Right? Like, we both are working with Wellington to sell now. And Darren just kinda was like, oh, yeah.

By the way, you don't have Tulsa. Like, what do you mean? No. When we started this conversation, I was in Oklahoma. He's like, no.

You don't have Tulsa. He's like, what happened?

Mark: You know?

Steve: And then I was like, I oh, wait. It's probably Mark and Chris. Alright. Fine. Whatever.

But I think that's awesome.

Mark: Yeah. $1,800 sell now is a big, that was a pivot for us as well. You know, it's hard to go to once we knew and we were gonna put our foot on the accelerator, and we talk about that because that was a that was that's a that's not a something to take lightly. Like, right now, we're putting our foot heavily on the accelerator pedal, and that was not something I would do on my own. Mhmm.

But once we knew we were going to these markets, it's just a it's not an if, it's a when. And so we have, yeah, secured 12 markets, around the the Midwest that we're gonna go attack with the 1 800 sell now brand. So we're excited.

Steve: Definitely putting your foot to the metal. So, before we we go into the expansion part, let's take a step back because you're talking about collective genius. And you're mentioning, like, you had to make a pivot, so you had to be in this room with these other guys. And one question I've been getting recently is, like, what are you gonna do when the market shifts? Because everyone's kinda anticipating this market shift.

I'm not really anticipating this market shift, but they're asking these questions. And they're like, you know, I've been doing this since 2007. You've been doing this since 2001. Right? And they're like, what experience are you bringing here?

And I said, honestly, what we're going through right now is absolutely unprecedented. And so I don't know anyone that has the answers, but I'm very grateful. I'm gonna be in a room full of other really smart guys that we're gonna figure out the answers together.

Mark: Yeah. So an an analogy there, Steve, would be March 2020. Mhmm. It was like, COVID is happening. They're shutting down offices.

We may not be able to work. Tenants may not pay rent. Landlords will be mad at us. What you know, we won't be able to buy anymore. We won't be able to go into living rooms to to to buy deals.

What are we gonna do? You remember those first, like, on deck calls at CG? There was a lot of stress. I think we broke Zoom. Right?

Like, so many people on there. But we gained clarity. We had a plan. We put it together, and we all won together. And it was, I think the same thing will happen.

I'm I have zero stress about the market. I think, a, we've got tons of runway, but, b, I know that, I mean, for us in particular, you know, we have a we have a business that transcends any market cycles because we provide a value add service. We're not trading paper or doing anything, but we are buying, rehabbing, renting out, property managing, and selling those those assets to our end user investors. So I think that's something that will stand the test of time.

Steve: So direct mail was the first pivot Mhmm. And you've committed to more marketing channels. Were there any other pivots?

Mark: Well, there was a huge mental pivot. Okay? So, when I, I when I so the one thing you've stepped over, which, you know, I certainly don't need to dwell on, but I will say that in, you know, it wasn't all roses. Right? I wanna be clear that no one has that rosy, you know, perfect, business cycle.

From 2001 through 02/1978, I had, two silent business partners that were, you know, kind of bankrolling operation, and that ended in a business divorce. The old the only ship that never sails is a partnership. Very true for my, tent there. So I got voted off the island, two to one, which was which was a hard pill to swallow. But then that was my biggest pivot ever.

Right? It's like, okay. I'm back to nothing. Everything's been taken away from me. We had a 120 rentals at the time that were just gone.

Steve: Yeah. Forced out. Forced out. But it's nothing to show for it.

Mark: Nothing to show for it. Other than they finally after not paying my mortgages for three months Mhmm. Right, they finally, paid down those, those mortgages and I and we walked away. So, yeah, that was a massive time in my life where it was, okay. You know, because then you have those conversations with your wife and family and friends like, oh, you know, real estate didn't work out.

I'm like, no. It's been going fine. I just got absolutely dealt a tough one. And so that's when I pivoted and said, no. I I got this.

I mean, it was my operation. I was 100% the operations guy, so I already had my rehab crews. So all I did was pivot. And that's really when the turnkey model before I knew what turnkey was, when I pivoted to start using other people's money to do the transactions, only I was just say service provider. So those What warranted

Steve: in their mind voting you off the island?

Mark: Mate, that is a, honestly, a whole another podcast. I I it is, greed.

Steve: Okay. Is that fair? I think it's totally fair. So Greed.

Mark: They were totally One of them lost their job and panicked. They were best friends and said, hey. Let's just park it right now and get get them out.

Steve: Yeah. It was bad. Okay. So very malicious. Very.

Okay. So that was will give you the ability to jump out on your own.

Mark: So now I'm on my I mean, I was on my own, operationally, now on my on my own, financially and running it, and obviously, you know, have transformed the way I would do business now and never giving up ownership of of, you know, my assets. Happy to rev share Mhmm. But just not ownership. Right? Big difference.

So now I'm going down that path and, slowly and surely, I think a little you know, once bitten twice shy. I probably didn't put my foot on the accelerator pedal as quickly as most CG guys do. I think the the visionary maverick, like, just hard charging. There's a lot of guys like, I've been doing it twenty years, and there's guys that are doing the same volume as us, that have been in, like, five years. You know?

But they're rocky. You know? They have their own issues. We slowly and organically grew this thing back up. Excuse me.

And, yeah, it was just this progression of, you know, first buying for other people. And then when I'd make some money from that, I would, you know, turn around and and buy one for myself and then go make some more money and buy one for myself. I was you know, we've always my wife and I, bless her heart, we've always lived well below our means. And, so we just poured our money into real estate from 2008 onwards, in fact, a little bit before that. And, yeah.

So we now have a, you know, pool of rental property that's substantial, and and, yeah, that's been a a good blanket of security to kinda fall back on.

Steve: So I wanna talk about this mental pivot, you know, because we did kinda, like, kinda gloss over it. But there is massive adversity, all industries, but we get to witness all the time in real estate. Right? Whether it's, you know, like, a deal that you're gonna close, you've been working for six months, and it's like, you know, finally get this big payday for your first deal, and then something came up. And you don't close your first deal.

So there's a lot of things where you're trying to quit your job and you've you're you're expecting all this to work, and it didn't go the way you're supposed

Mark: to go. So there's

Steve: a lot of adversity in this business. What did you do? Because it sound like sounds like you got dealt a huge, tremendous blow. How did you overcome that adversity?

Mark: I mean, I burned the boats. You know, I was on the I I didn't have any other option. I just you know, I knew I had a proven track record of success. So that's kind of the thing. I it wasn't like the business failed.

It was a hostile takeover. So my business model was sound. They weren't even in the market anymore. It's not like they came in and started doing what I was doing. They didn't know how to.

They just took the assets. And so I was able to go and just keep doing what I was doing, use some other people's money, because that obviously, you know, cut me off at the knees. And then I was able to just just rebuild.

Steve: And you being the operator, you already had the reputation.

Mark: 100%. So You

Steve: could resume.

Mark: Honestly, a lot of people didn't even know. Like, it was just an internal, like, you know, you cry in in private and and smile in public. Right? So it was yeah. I shed some tears for sure.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So then down the road, you're you're you're growing. So, you know, a lot of people that listen to the show, they go from never having done a deal, open to the first deal to doing maybe a couple of deals a month to some of these guys doing double digits a month. This part where you went from being a solopreneur to being in multiple states, like, what is that journey like?

Mark: Yeah. That is where a massive pivot. Right? And and I would not do it without the right team around me. And so I made a big decision in, 2018, to hire an integrator.

As a solopreneur, I think you have to just start with the end in mind. You've gotta think, where do I really wanna go? Am I happy just doing, you know, forty, fifty, 60 deals a year, maybe even a hundred hundred it seemed like at a 100, you know, have a little bit of stress and the wheel the, you know, the speed wobbles. But, you know, that I

Steve: just picture a 100 of your on your own. You're like the Prius with a donut Yeah. Wheel. Yeah.

Mark: So you have to decide, do I you know, where do I wanna get to? And I'm just a guy that's I see other people you know, that's the other thing about being in the room in CG. Right? You see other people doing it. Like, well, that guy's doing it.

Let me talk to him. He seems like a normal guy. I could probably go do that. So it does give you a little bit of confidence, but I saw how he did it. And so, you know, Dan Lane and Jeremy Fish were a pretty big inspiration to me just seeing, well, they just have it dialed in.

They just focus on their business. They they practice what they preach, and, they're recalculated, but they're very calm. They they have steady pace. They just follow-up. They follow-up, and they have process and systems and procedures.

And so I I knew that I need it. And then, honestly, a big, thing for me when I when EOS came around, it gave us some an overlay of structure. But I I saw quickly I didn't have the right the exact right team in place. And specifically missing after I read the book Rocket Fuel Mhmm. By Gino Wickman, that's when I'm like, oh my god.

I am a 100% visionary, and I suck at holding people accountable. I don't have systems. I don't have procedures. I don't have any manuals or things written down. Everyone's just like, it's a genius with a thousand helpers model.

Right? Mhmm. And so I was struggling with, with that I don't

Steve: think I've heard that. It makes total sense. I it's just It resonates very fair.

Mark: Mark wanna do? We better go ask Mark. And you can't scale when every decision has to come through Mark. So now, I mean, I I don't really get consulted. I hired, Chris Johns, my, COO, and he and I, form a very good partnership.

We're very much aligned on vision. We know where we wanna go. Our BHAG is a thousand homes a year, and we know we can get there because there's already one company in the in the country doing it. Mhmm. But we wanna get to a thousand homes a year, and then that's why we're going after 12 markets.

Steve: Yeah. And Chris is a really sharp dude. So when you were talking about hiring an integrator, you read Rocky Fuel and you're gonna hire an integrator. Chris is the guy we're talking about. Yes.

Okay. So Chris is not a slouch. Chris is not someone you're gonna find on Craigslist. So what did you have to do to get someone of Chris's caliber? I guess before I answer that question, just let the listeners know what was Chris doing before you got him.

Mark: Sure. So Chris was a highly paid, sales director for health care industry. Right? So, corporate climbing the corporate ladder. I think he wouldn't mind me saying that he didn't love his job.

Mhmm. He had to travel a lot, was on the road a ton. Because when you climb that corporate ladder, you suddenly get a region. Right? Right?

It's not you're not just in Kansas City. It's a a region. Oh, you're so good. We're gonna you're gonna own this region, and then it's, like, a great more responsibility. But suddenly, you know, he there I think there was one year where he spent an equal number of, or maybe more nights in a hotel room than he did in his own bed.

And that's where it's kinda like, man, with young kids. So, he and I were, golfing buddies while he was in Kansas City. He had moved down to Phoenix, still remained friends, Had never even considered him for that role because I you know, you figure he's enjoying what he's doing. But as I would, you know, tell him more about our business, and he actually was an investor in our business as a turnkey, as an investor, you know, buying our turnkey assets. So he knew our business model a little bit.

And, yeah, so we were able to to come on board, but it was so what happened? You ask what happened. What happened was I had to change my mindset. Mhmm. And I think most the the a massive mistake that small business entrepreneurs make or solopreneurs is that when they go to hire, they pick a number, let's call it 40,000 of what they're willing to pay somebody, and they go get the best person at that rate.

Steve: Mhmm. You

Mark: gotta flip the script. You say forget okay. You have oh, clearly, you have a budget. But you gotta think, if I I gotta go get the most talented person that I can get Mhmm. And then pay them whatever they want to get them on board within reason.

Mhmm. So you go hire the most talented individual for that. You know, you have a a pay range rather than an amount. And I think that was the thing. I I mean, you know, I was you know, clearly had to, you know, open up the checkbook to get a guy of Chris' caliber on board.

Right?

Steve: Right.

Mark: So that was something that was uncomfortable. But, you know, after wise counsel and talking to people and understanding what other big time COOs were making, you know, found that it was the right thing to do. And it I mean, clearly, I mean, you know, it'll be 10 x. Right? Right.

So

Steve: So you're very fortunate that you guys were golfing bikes

Mark: Mhmm.

Steve: And a client. So if I were to say, hey. You know? Or not myself, but, you know, a a friend of yours says, hey. I'm trying to hire and scale.

I'm trying to get the six states, trying to do all these transactions. Where do I go find someone like Chris? No. Fair question.

Mark: And I think the answer, again, for a professional organization is probably LinkedIn or Indeed

Steve: Mhmm.

Mark: First of all. The second thing is you've gotta look outside real estate. He didn't have any real estate experience. He'd owned a house, and he'd owned a couple of rental property, but he didn't know the bus but you don't need to know the business.

Steve: Right.

Mark: You need to know how to manage people and process and systems and overlay some level of accountability and company culture. It's building that up that really matters. And so just finding someone that, a, has the right, disk or PI or CI index, whatever you wanna call it, that would allow them to come in and be the right kind of operator. I think there's enough research around that concept now, that someone could yeah. That you could actually find the right personality type.

Even just read the book Rocket Fuel. If you read the book Rocket Fuel, it has that little, you know, test in there. And if you just answer all the if that guy answers all those cool gal, answers all those questions, and says, yeah. I'm, like, off the charts integrator, that's a pretty good start. And then it's like, you know, making sure that you can, you know, work with them.

I mean, make no mistake about it. Chris runs our business. You know, you have to be ready. So the next thing is, are you ready to elevate out of the business and think strategically? And, you know, we wouldn't be in 12 states without Chris, but we wouldn't be in 12 states without me being able to elevate out of my day to day so I can go focus and think.

You know, one of the realizations that I had was, Randy Lawrence loves to say it's easier to do than to think. And I suddenly gave myself permission to think. Mhmm. I needed to give myself permission because sometimes you just have a relaxing moment, and it's kind of the same thing with prayer or meditation. It it kinda feels a little awkward sometimes.

You're just sitting there and it's like, am I thinking about the right thing? Am I thinking you've gotta give yourself time, whether it be on the golf course or fishing or running or walking or spending time with your spouse or relaxing. As soon as your body gets away from the day to day and you can start thinking strategically, all of these ideas pop up and you have clarity. Mhmm. But the whirlwind and tornado of the day to day operations of a business is not where you find strategy and vision.

And I think, you know, the the thing that Chris has done well and and my whole team, I have to praise my team because they know, you know, I there are some businesses, I'm sure, where if, you know, the the boss is not in the office, they think, oh, he's on the golf course or he's doing this or that or he's shirking. They know that if I'm in the bar in in the office, they're not getting the most out of me. And they have freed me up to relax, spend time, and just think, which has been a blessing.

Steve: So risk aside, right, I think your competitive advantage is you've got amazing people. And something that you and I were talking about even before we started, you're you're mentioning to me as, like, wow. You've got really talented people here. What are you doing to attract talent?

Mark: Wow. Never a more pertinent time to ask that question, because that is something we are extremely committed to. In fact, 2019, our mantra was higher talent. And that was all through 2019, which is higher talent, higher talent. We haven't we haven't, taken a foot off that accelerator.

In fact, we've even doubled down. Just recently, we even hired a director of talent acquisition and retention, with the idea that you not only have to hire talented people, but train them and coach them because every person wants to bring out the best in themselves. And we have amazing people in the office, but they don't get much time with me. They don't get much time with Chris. And and you and you gotta realize they can sometimes be in a silo, so you have to come together.

You have to spend time coaching them, training them, making sure the best version of themselves, and so we now have a full time person doing that. Secondarily, obviously, in each silo, whether it be property management, give them education and further education. In acquisitions, quick shout out I mean, the Steve Trang training that you've done for our team has been instrumental in helping our, people, you know, become better in the living room and better at, you know, sales over the phone, sales training. So you invest in the people and then provide a a great atmosphere of of fun and and, you know, it's it's hard to it's hard to do, but I think it comes together when you have people of like mind that are competitive, that wanna win, and you celebrate winning together. Yeah.

I think that's awesome. I think in sorry. In the four dysfunctions of a team, Chris McChesney says it really well. He says, you give your employees a winnable game and then keep score, and you'll have success. And I like that one a lot.

I love that. Gotta reread.

Steve: So you mentioned that you're not available necessarily, and Chris is not available because he's got operation run. And so this person, the recruiting and retention is kind of their coach

Mark: as well? She she is becoming that. I will say, Chris, it's been a you know, with me elevating out, he it is it's been a lot on him.

Steve: I imagine.

Mark: Yeah. So, no, to say he Chris is not available, he has been extremely available. So, I mean, again, we're only one month into our hire of this person. Okay. But the idea is that she will live into what Chris has been doing extremely well.

Steve: Gotcha.

Mark: But, you know, so he has been very one on one. You know, spending time with each individual employee. How are you doing? Where can we help you? What can we do better?

Where are we where are we winning? Where are you struggling? What can we I mean, he's been that, but but that can't be the role of the COO. So now we have a full time person that will be living into that role. And again, with, you know, hand in hand with Chris, and now we have a male and a female in in that role of both coaching, and I think it's a a healthy place to be for the org.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think that's great because that's something that, I was talking to Jason Lewis about. You know, like, he signed up for our sales training, which is, you know, incredibly grateful. And he also has a one on one coach for each acquisition guy. Right?

Like, he's hired a third party outside the organization. You coach each person. Like, man, that's, like, so awesome. Like, that's the ultimate investing in your team. I think Rens Bartlett does the same thing too.

Mark: They are great practitioners as well. Yeah. They're really they're putting their foot on the accelerator too. It's kinda fun to see them. Yeah.

Steve: So let's talk about this, putting the foot in accelerator. So what does putting on the foot accelerator mean, and what would it look like when you're done?

Mark: So what it means to us is recreating our business model in other markets. You know, really it's not I mean, we're not you know, it's probably a bad analogy in the sense that it sounds like you're getting out of control. I would not be, comfortable let let me say it this way. We've built the car. If you want the car analogy, we have built the car now where we can go fast, and we don't get a speed wobbles anymore.

It's enough to like, hey. Quick. The check engine lights come on. Boom. We fix it, and we move on.

You know, velocity of capital is a big deal in our business, meaning we have to turn houses quickly when you're doing 300 a year, and we're not wholesaling. We don't wholesale at all. We buy from wholesalers. We're rehabbing 300 houses this year, Steve. That's crazy.

So, I mean, it's it's a big job. Right? So Just

Steve: for context, how many houses is that at a time? There's always some cycle. Yeah.

Mark: At any given you know, so we average around just over 5.5 months of, so it's around a 104 houses at a time.

Steve: Alright. So go back to

Mark: your question. We've got the analogy of the car. And so yeah. Putting your foot on the accelerator to me means that we are now willing to expand and grow without stressing out the organization. Yeah.

And so what that looks like is taking our operating procedures, our processes, and overlaying them in other markets where we know it's gonna be a success. I'm one of those guy I don't take risk, which sounds crazy because, you know, we're in this game of, like, you buy low, you try and sell high, you hope you make money. It's like, no. We buy already knowing that it's sold on the back end.

Steve: We

Mark: don't really take risk. We know our investors are gonna love these other markets. We have a, although we're gonna flip, you know, a couple of 100 full turnkeys this year, which are our our rental properties, if we had 600, we could sell them with the demand for our product right now. And so, really, it's just living into the demand that's already there for our product. So it's kinda just ramping up production

Steve: Mhmm.

Mark: Knowing that the the demand is already there. Oh, yes. And knowing that the team will not be stressed by it. They'll be challenged. Don't get me wrong.

And we'll have to grow and and hire, which is, again, why we hire the talent acquisition person because we'll probably hire maybe 30 or 40 l, full time employees in the next twenty four to thirty months.

Steve: So how many employees?

Mark: We we will grow probably double our our full time headcount in the next twelve to twenty four. Wow.

Steve: And so kinda what you're talking about, it sounds like, you know, a principle we heard a long time ago, which is reverse wholesaling. Find out what buyers are willing to buy Bingo. And and then go source that from wholesalers or the market.

Mark: Chris said, Steve, that's exactly what we do. Chris and I sit down. We say, okay. If our investors are willing to buy at, say, a seven cap, right, in in this market, well, you just go it's IJM. It's just math.

So then we come in and say, okay. We need to buy it for this because we know we're gonna rehab it for that. We can sell it for this, and it's you know, your margins are there.

Steve: And you're gonna buy bucks.

Mark: Yeah. And keep in mind, I mean, you know, you don't get these massive rips. Right? Like, you know, a wise man once told me, good friend of mine who has multiple businesses and plays golf not every day quite literally, great business owner of multiple different different, like, a boot company, a smoothie store. He's got a trash company.

The biz true business owner. He says, Galtor, I'm playing golf, just hitting singles all day while you're out there trying to hit home runs.

Steve: Mhmm. You know?

Mark: He said this about five years ago, and it kinda sat with me, and I'm like, you know, he's right. It's if you just go ahead and get base hit, base hit, base hit. In fact, I think Tim Bratz even commented something like that on Facebook a while back.

Steve: Yeah. He said, just go and get

Mark: the base hits. You don't need to swing for the fences on every deal. And as you scale, it's all about just getting singles and as many singles as you can.

Steve: And every once in a while, those singles start normal into a home run.

Mark: Well and clearly, right now in this market, they're turning into home runs. A lot of

Steve: people are looking really smart right now. Yes. Alright. So let's go to some of these questions. So Michael Frank says you're a solid, solid dude.

Thank you, Mike, for that. Michael York. So you lived in Rogers, Arkansas for a short while, and they were building everywhere. So Yep. So Gavin Buglione, I'm hoping, is reading this correctly.

Can you live on Burr income? So could you build a lifestyle around Burr?

Mark: If I am taking his question as, you know, obviously, that Burr, you know, buyer the it's tough right now in this marketplace. Back in the day, 100%. Right? Easy. I mean, in fact, that was one of the business models I had was simply, you know, using other people's money.

I'd say, look. You're silly not to. We would, you know, buy them a house, rehab it for them, get it rented out, they'd cash out refi. So use cash, but then cash out refi, pull out sometimes, you know, all, if not, maybe a little bit more of everything they had in it and just keep going. I think one of the to address that question, I'm gonna say this.

I think one of the biggest as a guy who sells turnkey real estate for a living, I will say that we coach all of our investors not to get swayed on passive income that is fully leveraged. I think one of the dirty little secrets in real estate is that leveraged assets at 80% leverage don't cash flow. I mean, who's gonna live off $200 a month? Right. It's just not gonna happen.

You have to have so much scale to get to that point. Mhmm. And most people that are, you know, trying to live off the cash flow don't have that kind of cash. It's only once that paid off. So our investors are coached to buy, you know, just four or five houses a year and, you know, just put 20 down, get 80% leverage, buy so scale with leverage, and then start to aggressively pay down debt.

I think the ideal model for turnkey buyer would be you have your active income, you pour whatever you can into those passive in assets to build up your asset column, then start aggressively paying down your debt, because only when it's paid off or, you know, majority of it is paid off is is it really life changing to where you could actually live off the cash flow.

Steve: Right. I'm gonna say I'm gonna ask a question. This might sound totally ignorant. Right? Coming from Phoenix.

Mark: Mhmm.

Steve: You know, we look over here, California, particularly, you know, these guys are doing 40 k time and fees, 100 k flips on a regular basis, and that looks sexy. Right? No one knows how much it costs to do all that, but it looks sexy. And I look at all our friends in the Midwest. Like, these guys are building real wealth through BRRRR.

They're finding these properties, pulling out cash out refis. They don't even need an income because they're just living off the cash out refis. Because they're built building real wealth and have almost no taxable income because everything's depreciating. Bingo. So would you agree or disagree that it's easier to create wealth in the Midwest?

Mark: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, easier to make bigger chunks of active income potentially in real estate in the in the bigger market just because you have, you know if you're talking percentages, you know, your your value of land and the and the sales price on the back end is just way, way bigger. But in the mid I I think real estate is a crockpot business, not a microwave business.

You're in the business of getting wealthy slowly over time, not getting rich quick. Because every time that you click over and accept some cash for a transaction, you're gonna be chinked 30% for tax right off the bat. Right. You know? And and then you have nothing to show for it.

It's just transactional. I'm trying to build wealth for our investor base. Oh, and, that's just following the strategy that I do. Just buy and hold assets, and twenty years later, everyone will be like, how did you do that overnight? You know?

It's like, no. No. This thing's been sitting in the crock pot for twenty years.

Steve: So if our young and single actually, because I I actually made this suggestion to someone that was in my sales training on Friday. He's like, I'm really frustrated in San Diego. I was like, how old are you? He's like, I'm 23. I think it was what what it was.

Like, yeah. Are you married? He's like, no. Kids? And I was like, then move out of San Diego, move in the Midwest.

Yeah. Do a bunch of BRS, find properties, do cash out refis, and if you wanna live in San Diego later on, go back.

Mark: Well, in in fairness, go stay in San Diego. I'm a bit Steve, I'm a big believer in collaboration. Right? I believe collaboration of ice collaboration over isolation is one of the keys to my success. I mean, inside CG, I've I've partnered with so many different avenues from the direct mail to the training to television advertising to our name of our company now, and and it's always been about collaboration.

Why can the guy that not, you know, hammer it out in San Diego making big reps, but just invest in the Midwest? Mhmm. We have investors from Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, China, The UK, all over the world, and they're investing in the Midwest. Really? Yeah.

It's they that was the biggest thing that turned us around. In 02/2010, the irony was that American investors that I knew were like, oh my god. I would never invest in real terrible. Have you not seen the crash that's happened, Mark? I'm like, why is it that when Walmart has a sale of 50% off, everyone goes rushing to the door?

Yeah. But when real estate has a sale of 50% off, everyone's like, I would never touch real estate. And I was just wise enough to say that's an opportunity.

Steve: You know, it's interesting because when, as a realtor in that time, I had lot of Australian money buying real estate in the Phoenix. Mhmm. They knew something we didn't know. Alright. So, Raylan says he loves the family tree, like, comment.

Let's see what else is it. If, Benjamin Beck wants to know if you could have coffee with someone dead or alive, who would it be?

Mark: That's a good question. Have coffee with someone dead or alive, who would it be? Simon Sinek comes to mind. Tiger Woods. You know, obviously, he's had his transgressions, but I just think he is such a mental giant.

The things that he was able to do in his profession, transcended sport. But, yeah, Simon Sinek is someone I, kinda look up to and and will always consume his his media. He is extremely wise

Steve: Yes.

Mark: And has great, you know, it's for where I'm at in my life. Right? Trying to lead people, it's it's hard. Like, that's one of the greatest challenges I have is leading an organization of people that are just growing, you know. Now we have, you know, 25 people in the office that are, you know, having to be led, and that's something that I I wear with with great respect.

Steve: Well, I think that's the hardest thing in this. Every person well, I take that back. Everyone initially has problems in marketing. Where do I find leads? Where do I find leads?

Once you solve that because it's really not that hard to solve that. Once you solve it, everyone struggles with people. It is the hardest. He has the last frontier. Leo Aguirre wants to know, what is your why?

What is what is pushing what is pushing?

Mark: I kinda see myself at the pearly gates, with a tablet that, you know, I'll be sitting there with Jesus, and he'll say something along the lines of, Mark, here's what you did, and here was your here's what I created you for. I just wanna try and live up to getting those as closely aligned as possible. It's not a fear I have, but I just wanna try and be the best version of myself. And so I put my heart and soul into being the best dad I can be, the best husband I can be, best friend I can be. I'm a guy that does do those random acts of kindness.

I try and, you know, do everything I can to reach out to people. I wanna be dude, at my funeral, I hope they just pack their rafters because everyone just wants to come say goodbye, you know, like, and just have that last memory. Like, I I enjoy life. I love what I do. I love, you know, where I live.

You know, I the only I'm not gonna call it a regret, but the the only challenge I have, that I struggle with, Steve, is just I have a very tight knit family, in New Zealand, and, you know, it is hard being away from them Yeah. For so long. And, you know, with COVID now shutting down the borders effectively, you know, you have to go sit in a hotel for two weeks if you wanna get in. Yeah, it's been tough.

Steve: So you mentioned best father you can be, best husband. So what are you doing to be the best husband you father you

Mark: Time. Right? Just gotta spend time and, you know, creating opportunities. You know, when my daughter was young, I was the dad that, you know, said, you know, she wasn't an athlete. Jack Jack and I have always had a great bond because he's a sporty kid.

Throw the baseball, throw the football, go play golf, kick the soccer ball around. Just, you know, obviously easy for a dad. But I was the dad that actually put on, a costume and went and danced with my daughter on stage, you know, because she loved dancing. You know, I love taking her out on date days and just spending time. One of the things I do, you know, to try and be the best husband I can be is to celebrate the wins.

We recently celebrated our twenty year wedding anniversary and did it in style. You know, rented a a lovely, Jason Medley style, house on the Pacific Ocean down in Puerto Vallarta and had our best friends that were actually in our wedding come with us, and that was really special to us.

Steve: So It's also to have them in your wedding also. That's amazing.

Mark: Yeah. So it's like, you know, you have those moments. I mean, life is just a journey, but I I love to celebrate along the way. And so I try to, you know, you know, obviously, discipline and encourage my children, but just get them to to love life because life is not given. We had a a, two people this year at our at our golf club, at the country club, passed away in their fifties.

You you life is not given. Tomorrow is not given, and so I do try to celebrate today as much as possible.

Steve: Lewis Cartucci wants to know, what are your thoughts on college?

Mark: Wow. That's loaded question. I that is such a great question for me, because I it's one I struggle with. I value college, but for different reasons. Like, I think, for in the real estate industry, you could go, you know, come to Steve Trang's training and get you know, go straight into the real estate industry.

But I think at an at an age of 18 to 19, you're not fully matured. I think it gives you good social skills. I think it, gives it gives you a more worldly perspective. I think it allows you to kind of relax. I think you've just gone through, you know, twelve years of schooling, You're kind of a grind, and then you're like, okay.

I'm not really ready to go be a man or a woman. I don't really know what I wanna do yet. I think college is that time period where you can let it out, have some fun, surround yourself with some really fun, you know, loving people, while at the same time bettering yourself, learning about your a specified field of of or craft that you wanna get into because we're there are real estate universities as well as you know. So it's a time to mature. And I so I would say I will never discourage my children from, you know, going to college.

However, it's not the be all and end all. It is certainly not something that is, you know, that that's a must have for everybody. I I was blessed. My parents, sacrificed a lot and actually, you know, paid for us to go to private high school in New Zealand, the number one high school in New Zealand called King's College. And so that's where I, you know, I learned, how lucky I was, coming out of of that experience, coming over to America, not really knowing if if my high school grades would transcend or not, but I was certainly ahead of the field compared to the American students that came in or at least not lagging.

And so, I think that's been great in us that, you know, education is there to, it just has to be an all around education. You know? It has to be, you know, in the arts. I'm I'm a I love Broadway. I'm a huge Broadway fan.

Really? Yeah. Like, just, theater. My my brother is a, you know, world famous actor in in New Zealand, is on number one show in New Zealand. And

Steve: That's awesome.

Mark: So he's doing his thing. We've always had a fascination of the arts in the theater in our family. My dad's a great musician. So I just I think you can be more well rounded if you allow yourself to be educated, you know, all all through life.

Steve: And Vincent asked, did you see operation moving towards fund do you see your operation moving towards fund management in the

Mark: No. But I do believe that, he that controls the capital controls the market. And so we are not narrow minded to think that we're only doing single family homes. So currently, we have a tranche of new home construction, built to rent, that we'll be offering our clients. We have our single family portfolio that's just, you know, rehabbed properties.

We have, our multifamily portfolio and some syndication deals as well. So at the end of the day, what we are trying to do is cater to high income, high net worth individuals that are really kind of saying, hey. We wanna invest in real estate, but no one's taking our money. No one no one's doing it professionally. They have to go do it themselves.

And there's a massive void in the market to just click on a button to make real estate as easy as clicking on a button and saying buy. And that's not there right now. And so we are trying to fill that massive void, and I think that's where we found success is that there are people that are willing to, you know, pay for our serve gold star service that will allow them to invest safely and securely and with good returns in in whatever, medium we choose. Mistake free. Mistake free real estate.

Steve: Michael Santiago wants to know, who helped you create a minds your mindset?

Mark: I'm a I'm a massive book reader. So, you know, for those that don't, you know, I think I'm gonna trail behind it. My goal this year was to to just read a book a week. But, yeah, I I've always read, and and that's that's really, where it started. But I think it also there's a bit of upbringing.

I think I don't wanna shy away from giving my parents a massive, tip of the cap because my mother and father were so positive. They always just had the, yeah. You can do whatever you want. Hey, mom. I you know, there's this guy that's going to play tennis in America on a scholarship.

I think I might wanna do that. Oh, great. Like, can you imagine your kid just flying across to Australia right now and living there forever? Like, most parents in America, though, I would never do that. My parent, yeah.

If you wanna do that, I support you. My sister, like, I wanna go try and be a world class triathlete. Okay. I support you. I'll get you up at 5AM in the morning and then, you know, take you to school and then take you biking in the afternoon and then go for evening run.

You know, my younger brother, hey. I wanna be a world class, actor, and I wanna go to to acting school in New York. No problem. Go do that. My older brother, he's like, hey.

I wanna go, you know, go over to Camp America, do a summer camp. They just encourage us to explore the world, and you can do anything you wanna do. So I think it you know, parenting's a massive responsibility. It is. Like, I take that on very seriously.

I want my kids to get the most out of life. And I think it with the media and, their cell phone usage and everything that comes along today, there's a there's a bigger responsibility on parenting now because you have a babysitter and an electronic device, and yet you don't get to tell the babysitter what you can tell your kids. Right. And so if you hit the easy button, just let them sit on that all day. Watch out.

Steve: Yeah. Who knows what's corrupting their brains? So Raylan Weiss wants to know, do you ever sell turnkey via owner financing? Currently, no. And then let's see.

Andrew wants to know if you were to start all over again. Let's just say it's in 2021.

Mark: Mhmm.

Steve: You're brand new. Andrew's giving me a

Mark: heartache right now. I couldn't do it.

Steve: What would be the first thing you

Mark: you know, wholesaling is kinda click that easy button to get in. Right? If you don't have any money, wholesaling is a good way to do it. Surround yourself with people that, I would surround myself in a mini mastermind. People that are in a community that can that are doing the same kind of things, you know, whether it's a meetup.

I'd kinda meetups are fine. Don't necessarily spend much time in them myself. But I think actually, like, more just getting four or five people that are aligned in mindset, and they meet and hold each other accountable, and check each other's goals and KPIs. I think I would just start there and then just just hustle and grind, man. We'll never wait.

I'd pick a niche and hammer it to death. That's, I think, one thing that I did well. I wasn't distracted. I just was like, hey. I'm a courthouse steps guy.

That's all I buy is courthouse steps, courthouse steps. And until that went away, seventeen years, I'm just, like, crushing it on the quarter steps because that's all I knew how to do, but that's okay. Like, I don't you don't need to be all things to all people. You can pivot a little bit or or cater here and there, but keep the blinders on and, just do one thing really, really well.

Steve: Keeping the blinders on is really hard when you're an entrepreneur. Yes, sir. How do you keep your blinders on?

Mark: How do you keep the blinders on? I I would go back to accountability. I think you have to tell people, hey. Help me keep the blind. I I need to focus on this.

Don't let me go down this path Mhmm. Whether that's a COO or as a solopreneur. That's why a solopreneur, it's hard to do because sometimes they think that they're on an island, and I felt that way. Right? I felt that I could never open up to anybody in Kansas City because they were either a competitor or they didn't know my business.

Mhmm. And now with a group like Collective Genius or, you know, just a a group of of like minded individuals, you can go in and say, hey. I wanna be held accountable. Please make sure that I stay on task.

Steve: Right.

Mark: You you know, once you're an adult, if you can't do it yourself, ask for help, you know, and that I think that would be the answer to that question is simply just, you know, if you feel like you're getting off offline, be smart enough to and the other one is write down like, I think too many people just have it up here and so then their brain they don't know. But if you write down your goals and push towards your goals on a daily, weekly, or monthly, quarterly basis, that certainly gives clarity of purpose as well.

Steve: Absolutely. And I love what you said, finding four or five people trying to do what you're trying to do. Because we know your frame of reference is the single biggest predictor of success.

Mark: Collaboration over isolation. Don't don't live with your head in the sand trying to, you know, be it's not you versus the world. It's the world is here to help you.

Steve: Right. I haven't heard it put that way before. I think that's awesome. So we're

Mark: gonna talk about your superpower. Well, elaborate on it. Yeah. I think, you know, you know, as a golfer, I I enjoy I I hate making bogeys more than I may enjoy making birdies. In fact, there's a joke at the club that I'm the best par putter at the club.

Right? Because I know I hate to make a bogey, but I'm not aggressively chasing the birdies. I think a little too conservative by nature perhaps, but I I hate to lose. And, in business, yeah, I certainly can't stand it. And, you know, that but, yeah, that would be my superpower.

It's just an extreme competitive nature.

Steve: Got it. So and I'm asking this question because the next question is, how do you stay motivated, or is that not even

Mark: honestly, the business now is kind of running out without me, and so the motivation has changed. The motivation for me is more fun when I'm not in the whirlwind. I'm not in the day to day. I think the motivation for me is how do I find more people, and that's fun, you know, getting to meet new people and bring them on board and change lives. The motivation to me is kind of, you know, looking at the numbers and trying to grow, and impact more people.

You know, the the great thing with our operation is that at the end of the day, we're rehabbing only houses and providing quality rental properties to tenants and then selling those full turnkey assets to investors. Like, win win win. Right? Like, we're really trying to you know, in every stage along the way, unless we drop the ball, we should be enriching lives and changing neighborhoods. Mhmm.

And so, you know, the the motivation for me is just there. It's like, hey, guys. How how many more of these can we do?

Steve: But then what is your biggest struggle?

Mark: Talent, which is why we hired someone specifically for that. Yeah. I think in any small business, and maybe in any business, people, as you said, it always comes back to people. And making sure that you have central alignment of vision, common, commonalities of goals and strengths, and and just getting the most talented individuals, knowing that when you train them and do things right, they're gonna leave one day.

Steve: Right.

Mark: And that's okay. Yeah. And I think that the stressor back to our earlier point about, you know, what a solopreneur maybe does poorly is they they hope that that person will they they wanna pay someone maybe of lesser talent thinking that that other talent will come in and steal their business idea and go do it themselves. Mhmm.

Steve: Hey. Go get that person for

Mark: two years and help they will double your but just make sure you account for and write down everything they do.

Steve: Right. And

Mark: that's what Chris has really done well and all our staff has done well is documenting our core processes and procedures and putting videos together so that if there's a someone elevating or leaving to go do something else, they'll always be a someone that can come in and kind of get a quick start or head start based on, on on the, training that is already in place. But Chris said it best when he came on board. He said, Mark, I wanna build a bench. Every NBA team, every, you know, NFL team, any good team has a bench that can come in at any good time. And it's our goal right now to not only have our core staff, but to build a bench of potential hires or just networking in the industry to know that you could potentially bring someone on board as you grow and scale like we are to bring more people on into the fold.

So that's something we're excited about.

Steve: And I yeah. I think that's so something that we all kinda forget because we wanna hire. And when we need to hire, we gotta start anew. Having a bench helped that a lot. Wants to know what is your favorite book, or what are your favorite book?

Mark: There's one. Actually, the book, that I have given away the most to people is called the legend of the monk and the merchant. Have you heard that one before? I have not heard that one. So Terry Farber wrote a book called The Legend of the Monk and the Merchant.

One of my favorite I'm a fable guy. Right? So that's why I love Patrick Lencioni's books, because they're always told in a story, and then they have kind of, like, two thirds story and then one third principles. I love the way he writes his books. The legend of the monk and the merchant kind of talks about faith based living and Christianity and capitalism and how they don't have to be competing elements, that they work together.

And that would that was something that at a time where it spoke to me at a time in my life when, you know, I was starting to make some money and not feeling guilty, but just like, oh, you know, like, what what does that look like? And and, you know, when we tithe and and give back and how how much and and, you know, what do we do with money that we're making? It just freed me up to know that, you know, money is not bad. Money is not the root of all evil. The love of money is the root of all evil, but it really goes, deeper in talking about how these two can actually help each other, and there's so much philanthropic efforts out there.

I mean, gosh, Jason Medley is an amazing example of that. Right? With collective genius and generous genius, that's kind of the blending of the two. This book is a wonderful fable of capitalism and philanthropy coming together. So, yeah, that's a that's a really good book.

Steve: Yeah. That's awesome. I I remember when I was going through I think it was Total Money Makeover. It was one of those Dave Ramsey books. And I was surprised at how many of his chapters would include a verse from the bible that was relevant.

It's like, wow. There was so much wisdom. Yeah. There is so much wisdom.

Mark: The bible talks about money quite a lot.

Steve: It does. It does not shy away from that. Okay. So, Gavin's follow-up question. Can you burr and keep everything as well?

This way you have upfront cash acquisition, ABSA flow, and schedule it going could be

Mark: Let me just say in this market, it's gonna be challenging to, you know, do the the in the old ways where, you know, you'd have these appraisals that came in so high and you'd only be in for 70%. You can maybe pull some cash out. I'm not saying those deals don't exist. In fact, you know, your poor group or I guess your audience maybe of, your wholesalers and and bird dogs and and guys are just hustling and grinding in the real estate game. If they come across a home run deal, hey, more power to you.

But it's not a consistent scalable business of just always pulling out $10 every time to put down on the next deal.

Steve: Well, I mean, I've heard this over and over again is that wholesaling is young men. Right? No one starts in wholesales.

Mark: We love wholesalers, Steve. We work with a lot of people. I don't think anything wrong there.

Steve: I'm just saying, like, no one starts there and stays there.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: A lot of people start there Yep. For a reason. Put cash to buy real estate.

Mark: Yep. But, hey. Quick cash. Don't go buy the don't be that guy that goes buy the fancy cars. Yeah.

Like, just until you've got million in the bank, don't drive that that car. Right?

Steve: Michael Santiago wants to do you use social media in your business for selling and advertising?

Mark: No. We don't. So we're blessed to have just literally a lot we're sold out of our inventory through q three already, which is crazy. Yeah. So every so we have a 104 houses in the pipeline And they're all accounted for.

All accounted for, and we know when they're gonna, you know, come out of rehab. So they're already presold. Wow. So we so we don't need to do that. However, it's a very valid question because as we're growing and scaling, the acquisition side really needs now that we have the brand.

The reason we've kind of been pausing is that we had this brand of best offer KC, which is obviously Kansas City specific, and now we're going one eight hundred sell now. Mhmm. Now we will be really able to kind of build and and bang the drum. In fact, one of our hires that we have built out for, you know, in the next twelve months, one of those full time staff will be someone just for social media because, you know, as as, my podcast grows, as our, acquisition team, it gets more out there. I think you've gotta tell people what you're doing.

You've gotta advertise what you're doing. Otherwise, you're never gonna get any referrals.

Steve: Well, that's why you're asking, like, was I bringing the

Mark: whole media team

Steve: down to to Tampa? Yes. Yes. You are. Yes.

I am. What is you

Mark: what is the greatest lesson you have learned? Be kind. You know? I I I I think I would just go back to, treat people with kindness because it comes around. It's a very small world.

Very small world.

Steve: I feel like there's a reason why that's a valuable lesson. Something that prompted that lesson? Was it a mistake that you made or someone crossed you?

Mark: Yeah. Certainly, my business partnership crossed me in a bad way, and that's that's burned bridges. No. I don't think I've misstepped in that way myself. Yeah.

All I know is that it is a small world and small communities that we live in. I recently just got back from a baseball trip, and, you know, my son had transitioned to a new baseball team, And every single person, it was like a one degree of separation from someone we knew. It was like everyone knew somebody that that I already knew. You know? And so, you know, just be kind to people.

I you know? Gosh. We live in in one of the greatest countries in the world, and I'm blessed to live here. I love, you know, America. Love New Zealand, but also love America.

And I think that, too many children are now growing up in this, in this sphere of political hypercharged conflict, where there has to be a right or wrong. There's so much gray area, Steve, in everything that you do. So just be kind to people. I think if the world was a little kinder, it'd be a better place to live.

Steve: You know, it's interesting. You're you're mentioning the burning the bridges. So there's a public relations person I was working with for for a short period of time, and he promised some things. And I paid for it, and he didn't deliver it. I said, alright.

Well, I'm not paying for these other services. And he went not to, like, hey. How can we solve this problem? Or let's have an adult conversation about it. He sent me straight to collections.

Right? And here's the problem. I have literally referred him tens of thousands of dollars in business. Like, I don't know what was going through his mind, but that be kind was not was not going through his thought process.

Mark: Let me also say this, because that was a question that caught me off guard. I'm trying to scramble. But I also know that I was on an island for a long time, and I truly believe that collaboration over isolation, which I've mentioned before, is a huge lesson that people should embrace working with other people Mhmm. And embrace, you know, specializing in an area and being okay with it. And and, you know, paying someone a fair price to go, you know, buy your media for you or paying someone a fair price to do training for your staff.

You don't need to train them all yourself. There's only a finite number of hours in the day. Pay the experts to do what they do. Mhmm. You know?

They always say it about an attorney and an accountant. Right? You've gotta pay you to get the talent. It's the same in everything. Get the most talented people.

You surround yourself with talent. I would love to wake up in our business, and I know we'll get there where I walk into the room and I'll be the dumbest guy in the room. Mhmm. I'll be quite happy with that. Yeah.

The the more the business relies on you, the less valuable your business. Well, I

Steve: mean, you're the bottleneck. Genius with

Mark: a thousand helpers, and there's no I am no longer the bottleneck, Steve. So I'm excited for that.

Steve: Well, I showed you that accountability chart.

Mark: Yes, sir.

Steve: I was most certainly the bottleneck. And then along those same lines, is there a favorite best or most interest failure?

Mark: Most, the best failure. I've bought some bad houses, over the years that have turned out just fantastic on the back end. I once bought a house, that was absolutely a teardown that probably shouldn't have have bought, probably one of those instances where I, you know, wanted to outbid the guy on the courthouse steps. So I overpaid for it, but then

Steve: A better spirit mind has gotten away.

Mark: Got away from it. Yeah. But then the government came in and and just three months later, imminent domain to the house and paid me, like, way more than what it was worth.

Steve: That's awesome.

Mark: So that was an epic failure that was, like, reciprocal on the back end.

Steve: Yeah.

Mark: I I will also encourage people. You know, real estate is a vehicle where it lets you get away with really, really bad decisions through time. Mhmm. So you can just go buy, and time will take care of all it will heal all wounds. Mhmm.

So I think there should be less consternation about what and where and exactly how we're holding onto these assets. Don't wait to buy real estate. Go buy real estate. Right? Don't well, sorry.

Don't wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate and wait. Yeah. Just just wait it out. Real estate is an amazingly safe vehicle.

Steve: And Andrew has this question here, is are you hiring?

Mark: Absolutely. Yeah. No. We are hiring in, actually, I think even if you we have a corporate website. If you go to apply at sbd.com,

Steve: it goes through all of

Mark: our open positions currently, and I think there's six or seven of them.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. Alright. So I want you to look think about what you wanna leave the listeners with while I make just a couple of announcements. Guys, we got our sales training coming up next month.

If you guys interested, send me a DM. And, if you guys are getting value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. It really helps us, helps the algorithms. We can create more millionaires. So what are your last thoughts?

Mark: Think if I'm speaking to your audience, Steve, as I understand it, a lot of them, you know, could be kind of getting into real estate or or, you know, certainly been in just a few years. You guys are blessed. Right? I mean, I'm just real estate, I feel so passionately about that it's such a great vehicle. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

The most heavily marketed investment strategy out there is the stock market. Just invest money. The accumulation accumulate and then deplete and hope you don't run out. Real estate is an asset class where you buy assets, they spit off passive income, and you never need to sell them. And if you buy enough of it, you got enough to live on where you never need to sell the assets.

Life changing prosperity through real estate. Mhmm. So don't lose sight of the fact that you're just trading and transacting and making a lot of money now to to make yourself look really good. Just put some away and not cash in the bank. Leave it in the house.

Hold houses, hold real estate, and then send me a thank you card twenty years from now.

Steve: Why do you think this is just a follow-up question. Don't normally do this. But why do you believe, the stock market is market is so much more real estate?

Mark: Has to be. You know, you're gambling. Right? I mean you know? So no.

Why do I think that? You gotta do something with your money. It's obviously there for a reason. I'm all about diversification. I mean, when I sit down with a wealthy individual, I don't tell them pull all your money out of the market.

I say if you have, liquid assets that you're looking to diversify or get into something else, then we'd be happy to cater to that need. But, yeah, it's just a hyper competitive market, and, it's something that needs to be done through someone else because it is extremely confusing. If you try and do that on your own, good luck. Right? Day trading, I mean, good luck.

So Yeah. You know, hyper competitive, very challenging, and so it has to be done through a professional. But, yeah, it's gambling, mate.

Steve: What it feels like. It definitely feels like legal gambling. So if someone wanted to get ahold of you, how would they do that?

Mark: So our website is, mistakefreerealestate.com. My book is on there, the podcast. And then, if we have any wholesalers out there that are in any of those markets that I mentioned, Steve, that we're growing into, obviously, not in all of those just yet, but, you know, we'd love to start working with more wholesalers. Like I say, I mean, we've paid out a million dollars last year in wholesale fees, and we wanna double that. So we wanna help your, millionaires that are gonna become millionaires.

So, yeah, go to info@mistakefreerealestate.com, and, we'll be ready to to take some emails through there.

Steve: Awesome. Thank you very much. Thanks, Steve. Absolute blast. Thank you guys for watching.