Rafael Cortez shares how he closed $1,000,000+ in revenue 3 years in a row

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disrupters. Today, we have Rafael Cortez, another wholesaler killing it in the Phoenix market. And he's here to share how he was able to generate over $1,000,000 in fees three years in a row. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, broker and owner of Stunning Homes Realty, founder of the OfferFast Homes app, the only MLS for off market wholesale properties.

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Rafael Cortez: Yes, sir. Let's do it.

Steve: Alright. So first question is, what got you into real estate?

Rafael: An accident, actually. I did it, I wasn't really planning on getting into real estate. I had a medical transportation at the time and, and it was running fairly well. So so I wanted to just diversify, my income. And I went to a classic.

I went to a Robert Kiyosaki, training, saw real estate, and and, figured I would do a flip after that. So I got into it. My first, project was a rehab. Horrible, by the way. Yeah.

Big learning lesson, but that that's how I got into it. And then from that point forward, I've always just, you know, done different things in real estate.

Steve: And when was that?

Rafael: That was 2,000 towards the end of 2009.

Steve: Okay.

Rafael: Yeah.

Steve: So you got you went to your seminar and you got into your first flip. Did you lose money? Did you make money?

Rafael: Actually, no. I got lucky. I didn't I didn't make money. Well, maybe I think I've I think I've made about $300. Okay.

But it was, it was, it ended up being like a six month project, holding all kinds of stuff I didn't wanna hold on to. The area was terrible. Yeah. The property had all kinds of problems with it that I never even considered when I was walking into it.

Steve: What is this area that was terrible?

Rafael: It's right by I 17. If you're looking at, Central, Phoenix, right by I 17 And 19th Avenue. So I

Steve: had a very interesting experience there as well.

Rafael: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't go sounds mean, but I would I wouldn't go look at the house without my gun.

Steve: Yeah. I went to go evict someone there for the bank back when I was doing foreclosure listings. And I went over there to go, you know, knock on the guy and tell him he had to move out. Yeah. I I pulled up.

I left. I sent an email to the bank. I am not evicting anyone in this neighborhood.

Rafael: Yeah. It's not gonna happen.

Steve: You wanna fire me, fire me, but I am not evicting anyone in this neighborhood. Yeah. Okay. So that was the 1st Floor. Did you have to invest anything into the Kiyosaki product?

Rafael: I I I ended up I did end up buying a, one of the $10,000 programs.

Steve: Mhmm. And it

Rafael: was alright. I mean, it just gave me like an overview of real estate and I didn't do anything about real estate at all. So, I mean, it was helpful. I think that the thing that kinda made the whole thing worthwhile was that they they took about fifteen minutes during the the first week that I went to it to kinda touch a little bit on wholesaling. Mhmm.

And, and that's the very first time I heard about wholesaling. And the concept of taking a piece of paper here and selling that piece of paper without having to pick up a a hammer and and, you know, any of that hassle. I mean, it was very, very appealing to me. So I was like, let's give that a shot.

Steve: So you like wholesaling more than flipping?

Rafael: Way, way, way better. Yeah. I did. Okay.

Steve: So then, when did you start wholesaling?

Rafael: I didn't start wholesaling until maybe 2013

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: Or '14.

Steve: Okay. So were you flipping along this time? Yeah.

Rafael: Yeah. I did a I did a few flips, during that time. And and it was, I mean, I was pretty much dabbling with it. I didn't have my real estate license yet. I didn't have any of that stuff.

So I would just, I would look at a property and then, you know, I didn't go all in. It was more of like a, you know, hobby. I didn't jump in with both feet. Because I still had the other, the transportation business that was running. So, yeah.

But I didn't start wholesaling until until I I started thinking about selling that business and and did a couple of transactions.

Steve: Right.

Rafael: Wholesaling just made perfect sense.

Steve: And then did you immediately Were you also immediately connect connect with Sean?

Rafael: I did, wholesale on my own for about a year. And actually listening to his podcasts, I listened to a few others, but I started just following the stuff that he teaches.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: You know, the the free stuff. And I closed a couple of deals.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: And I mean, I I became a a raving fan.

Steve: Right. So Was it you that Sean Terry called and you were, like, blowing him off?

Rafael: Mhmm. Yeah. And it happened by accident because I I I didn't, I thought it was one of my friends. And we had been talking about it. And I told him, listen man.

They're like, you can do this thing with paper, and then you sell it, and then you make whatever spread is, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000. And he didn't believe me, and he thought I was, you know, messing with him.

Steve: Your friend.

Rafael: Your your friend. My friend. Right. So so I had submitted an application because he he put out an email that he was looking for in acquisitions, and I had just sold my transportation company. Mhmm.

Steve: So I

Rafael: was just sitting there, trying to figure out something to, you know, something to do. And I ended up talking or, you know, submitting the app. He calls me one day and he goes, is this, this Rafael? And I thought it was my friend. So I just blew him out and I hung up the phone.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: It was crazy. He goes back and, he goes, is this Sean Terry? Oh my God, I am so sorry. I felt like an idiot. And then, yeah.

I went to meet him and then started working for him.

Steve: So you're wholesaling for a year on your own.

Rafael: Right. How did you do that? A little under a year. Yeah. How did I do?

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: I closed three deals. The spreads weren't that thick. I think the biggest one was about $80.8700. And the smallest one was, I think, three. Somewhere in there.

Okay. Yeah.

Steve: So. So.

Rafael: I had a slight idea of what it was by the time I started working with them.

Steve: And the reason I'm asking that is because there's a lot of people right now that are kind of like floundering, right? A lot of people that listen to our show aren't all doing 10 deals a month. You know, we got a lot of people that are brand new or they're doing one deal a month. Right.

Rafael: And

Steve: so I want to get your perspective. You know, you did it on your own and then you joined the team. Right? Yeah. So how was your experience doing on your own?

How was your experience working on Shon Terry's team? And then obviously later off it's going on your own again. But Yeah.

Rafael: Man, it wasn't real. It's it's, completely different. I mean, when you go through if you built any business And I've been an entrepreneur since I was twenty twenty two. So I built businesses before. But whenever you're in in that process, in that grind, it's just everything feels, seems, and weighs like a big, big, you know, big rock.

Right? And, and to me, I mean, the way that I see it is is when I joined, his company, I mean, like, that rock just kinda got lifted and I was able to to perform better with all the added stress of of of, you know, making ends meet or making stuff, you know, pan out.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: And I mean, that was what it did.

Steve: All the weight wasn't on you.

Rafael: Right. What it did, was just kinda got rid of that mind block that I that I that I put myself in when I was, you know, closing two or three deals in. Right. So Before I joined.

Steve: Let's talk about that transition. Right? So what year was it that you joined Sean's

Rafael: organization? 2014.

Steve: So you joined this organization in 2014. Right. And you get thrown into the fire.

Rafael: Pretty much.

Steve: I mean, was it you and like a couple other acquisitions guys? Or what was that organization that I thought?

Rafael: Well, I was there. There were a few that kinda came and went.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: But, yeah. I mean, he was spending a lot of money in marketing and I was getting the bulk of it. Yeah. So I started My first week I closed six deals.

Steve: Wow.

Rafael: And I felt like a freaking rock star, man. And and and of course, Friday comes along, we look at the numbers, or Monday comes along, we look at the numbers and we dropped five of them and one didn't close. So I didn't do anything that first week.

Steve: Wait. What do you mean?

Rafael: I I I locked in too high. Oh. So I was I was, you know, I was afraid of of, of actually, you know, running the numbers and making making sensible, you know, offers. So I ended up blocking a lot a lot of deals. I focused on getting deals.

Right? So I brought in six deals and it felt great. And then Monday comes along, during the the team meeting and and like none of them stuck. The one that stuck didn't close.

Steve: So. So the offer. Yeah.

Rafael: Yeah. Heavy. I got a big goose egg. So, but, yeah, but I was going on on on about 25 appointments a week, like, five on average, about five appointments a day.

Steve: Wow.

Rafael: And it's just constant repetition. I mean, there's no no magic, you know, pill. It's Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So your first year with Sean

Rafael: Mhmm.

Steve: I mean, you have one year where you did three deals on your own. Less than a year, did three deals on your own. First year with Sean, how many deals did you do?

Rafael: Honestly, I don't know how many deals. I know the revenue was $1.1.0.2 mil that first year.

Steve: So that first year?

Rafael: Wholesale, yeah, fees, wholesale expenses.

Steve: And then the next year?

Rafael: It went up to 1.4, and the third one was one points close to 1.6.

Steve: K. 1.2, 1.4, 1.6. Yeah. And it's closed revenue.

Rafael: Right. Deals, like, you know, got locked, and they got pushed.

Steve: Right. So, you know, one of the things I wanted to kinda impart on people that listen to the show is you have an advantage in in the living room or on the at the dining table. Yeah. So, you know, you don't like people bragging about this about you, but you've got multiple degrees in Yeah. So let's talk about how that was helpful in you in winning in inside the at the dining table or the living room.

Rafael: Man, I think that's that's the one tool that everybody should learn. Not just for the sake of real estate or wholesaling or selling or negotiation, but I mean, it's it's all around it. It's communication based. Basically, it's it's what it comes down to. But what it is, it's being able to understand the way that the other person communicates.

Mhmm. We all have different behavioral tendencies, different strengths. And and whenever whenever you're able to to identify those and you can you can adapt yourself to that type of communication, whatever it is that you're saying, the rapport you're trying to build, the the clarity of the stuff that you're actually talking about is gonna come across a lot better

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: Than if if, if you don't, you know, if you don't process that sort of thing. And and, when I started working with Sean, I was actually going through through, through my degrees. Working with Sean, I was actually going through through, through my degrees. And so, I it was pretty cool that I was learning stuff in school and then applying it right away and and, you know, one to one.

Steve: Yeah. I

Rafael: mean, that's why I love going on appointments. Even if it was a crappy appointment and it wasn't gonna go anywhere, because of a previous phone com you know, phone call or or, you know, whatever, I would still try to go there and sit down, you know, right across so I could learn about that person.

Steve: So Well, I think that's a huge I get. Right? Is that even if you do feel like there's a low probability appointment Yeah. When you're learning, you want every rep. Check.

Every at bat. Don't disqualify a lead just because you don't wanna go or because it's a low opportunity.

Rafael: Right.

Steve: When you're learning, take every opportunity to learn.

Rafael: Yeah. Every every I mean, every moment at Batman, it's gonna make you better. Yeah. And and that's that's how I was looking at that whole thing. I mean, where else am I gonna get, you know, that big amount of of marketing dollars, you know, and then take the benefit of, you know, having all those appointments.

It'd be crazy if I didn't take advantage of it.

Steve: Right.

Rafael: So so it was like a really, really cool, internship trial by fire and making good money. So

Steve: So let's dive a little bit deeper into that. Right? So what was the, you know, like, couple of nuggets as far as the how on on the communication. What were some, you know, two or three things that, you know, someone doesn't have to go through the whole process, but, like, two or three biggest nuggets that you can get somebody on how to win in

Rafael: in the living room. So, usually it comes down to to, the term rapport. Right? Mhmm. When you're trying to understand how somebody communicates and then they they, like, I'm I'm building rapport.

I'm building rapport this way, building rapport that way. Had a conversation that lasted two hours. So I got really good rapport. And I think you and I have talked about it before. It's it's you can have really long, you know, lengthy conversations and and go into some, you know, private personal stuff, but it doesn't mean that you've created the rapport necessary for that person to do any type of business with you or to actually trust you as a person.

However, when you start reading people and and for things like body language

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: There there are things that are gonna give you, their subconscious, things that are gonna give you really good really good and and solid, a real a really solid idea of, you know, that rapport is being built. For example, isopraxism, which is mirroring. Yeah. When you're talking to somebody, they can, you know, they can be doing very well and looking at you and and, you know, having eye contact and all that stuff. But the body language is gonna tell you something else.

Right? Right. If you look at the at the feet, this one's crazy. The feet always wanna They're always pointing, wherever the person wants to go. So, if you ever been at a bar or at a restaurant and you see two people talking to each other and one of them is kinda turning sideways pointing, it means that that person wants to leave.

Mhmm. So, just being keen of that sort of thing when you're at an appointment, can help you, just, you know, pull it back a little bit from whatever it is that you're saying.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: Or or, you know, pressure more into it. For example, if I if I know that I have, full mirroring and isopraxis and because it is subconscious people can't track it even if you try. Mhmm. If I if I have them and I see them they're with me, I'll whatever it is that I'm talking about, if I'm, for example, if I'm at the offer, I'll just go deeper into that one topic. If they get anxious and start pulling away, I'll I'll kinda, you know, pivot from that topic to something else.

And and when you're able to navigate a conversation like that, it almost feels like there's no negotiation going on. Mhmm. With with Sean, I would I would take, the guys that were coming in and and, you know, go on on training so they would shout at me for for a week. And and I close the deals and bring it back to the table and and the comment was made a few times like, you're not negotiating, you're getting layups. And and it's it's there's so much going into, you know, into that one on one conversation when you when you're actually reading, when you're pulling back, when you're, you know, pushing forward on a point, and and just reading all the micro movements that somebody does.

Yeah. So body language is huge. Tonality, you know, of course, you know, it's it's it's basically what it comes down to is it's we're all algorithms. And we do have, you know, different behavioral strengths. And if you know how to understand behavioral strength, you're gonna know how to talk to that person.

Mhmm. And if you understand that behavioral strength, you're gonna know whenever they're talking back to you through body language, not necessarily words, or or key, you know, or keywords or you know, things that go into into conversations. So picking up on all that stuff is it it's crucial. Why? Because you can apply it.

Yeah. In negotiation, that's one. Friendship, it's another. I mean, have you ever been, for example, if I if I if I say, hey Steve, how you doing?

Steve: Doing alright.

Rafael: Doing alright. Right? And if I lean forward and I say, hey Steve, how you doing?

Steve: You're very good at that right now.

Rafael: Yeah. So even even your demeanor changed. Yeah. Even your demeanor change. I mean, right now, we just met, you know, we're playing.

But but even something as simple as that can have a big impact. Right? So what I'm trying to say is that if you're aware of that sort of thing, you can use it as a communication tool. Mhmm. So, you pull back from a particular conversation or you press on with that particular conversation.

Steve: So, there is something always going on in the back of your mind. Yeah. Where you're monitoring your body language and their body language?

Rafael: It it sounds like it's a lot of work. After a while, you you start getting used to it, and it becomes kind of a second nature. But, again, it's it's reps, man. It's reps. And and I've been playing with this stuff for the last, you know, I don't know, ten ten years or so since I came across it because I actually used it a little bit Mhmm.

When I was building my transportation company. Yeah. On the hiring, on the training dispatchers, and and, and it was it was for customer service

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: You know, purposes. But it also it just got me curious enough that I started getting into it. And that's that's actually one of the reasons that I've become a an organizational psychologist.

Steve: So one thing that was interesting to me was, we had met before, right, when you were speaking on stage at Extreme Freedom. And then we've since been hanging out in the same room once a month at Brandon's

Rafael: Pretty cool.

Steve: Yeah. Room. And there was a role play where I was you you and I were supposed negotiate this deal. And you, we were negotiating after fifteen seconds. Like, I'm not talking to this guy anymore.

He's a he's a freaking avocado. You wanna talk about what that means?

Rafael: Yeah. It was kind of like the running the running joke. It's so I'm a very high driver. I like things done, you know, quickly. I get to the point and everything.

I'm able to adapt my communication style when I'm with somebody else. Right? But, if, if we're looking at, disk profiles. And we had it coded different, definitely with Sean. Mhmm.

We used a couple different colors. But, the, the one of the behavioral tendencies was a high s, high supportive.

Steve: Mhmm. And,

Rafael: and high analytical. And and, you know, between the yellow and the green, it just turns into an avocado. And that's like my my foe to negotiate with. Mhmm. Because I'm so, you know, I'm fast.

I'm I'm I'm I mean, I can negotiate with somebody who's a high driver. And be in and out in fifteen minutes with with the contract. Friends. And but when it when I have to to really look at the details and break it down, and and that to me is taxing, so it takes energy out of me. And when I if we were yeah.

We're sitting at that mastermind, and we I saw you, and and, I mean, your mind was set. Your mind was wrapped around one idea. And I think I missed it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: Towards the end of the conversation, I missed the offer because you had, you put a number in your head. Mhmm.

Steve: And I

Rafael: think I missed it by a couple thousand dollars.

Steve: You weren't too far off. Yeah.

Rafael: Yeah. On on the, on what I could offer.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: And and I just didn't get to it for by a couple thousand dollars, but you didn't, I mean, you didn't, give in Yeah. On it.

Steve: So so So so to talk about,

Rafael: you know, the

Steve: yellow, green, red, and blue?

Rafael: Yes. So,

Steve: what are the what are those four profiles mean?

Rafael: So, disc profile. It's an and it's called Everything is it's pretty much like anything that you're you're talking when you're, that you're talking about when you're looking at behavioral tendencies or personalities, you know, that sort of thing. It's all derived from from DISC. And it's been called different things through time, but it's one of the oldest, most like solid, you know, types of research that has been done. So basically, there's four four types of, buckets.

Right? Think that way. So you have d, which are high drivers. You have i's, which is your influencers. And, s's who are highly supportive.

And then c's calculating or analytical. Right? So your high drivers are very quick, very fast paced, usually loud. And then your eyes can your influencers can also be very, you know, quick, fast paced, but they're more, people, people oriented. Mhmm.

Drivers are task oriented. Right? Yeah. And then, you have, supporters, which there there's that And I actually have this on on my on my, my operating system. We have to recognize them when we're talking to them.

Mhmm. Like the lead gen people and the acquisition guys. But, when you have SS or, high supportive, they're they're a lot more more monotone. They're more reserved. Their conversations are are more calm and quiet.

Mhmm. And and then you have your analytics, which is is, you know, they substantiate data. You better be prepared whenever you go to the closing table with numbers, comps, and everything better makes sense. Otherwise, you're gonna lose that rapport. The cool thing about it is that when you start, when you start tagging people, you know, for lack of a better word.

And, and you start recognizing, okay, this person is a high driver. This person is a, you know, very analytical. This person is a, you know. You can you can also, if if you practice it right, you're gonna learn the the algorithm. Like, each one, each one of the categories has certain things that, that are tendencies that are drawn to.

For example, high drivers are are one of the biggest things that it's, or biggest fears is it's fear of being being taken advantage of. Because for example, me, I don't calculate, I don't sit down and process too much information before I, you know, pull the trigger. Mhmm. So I'm always hasty. Right?

It's one of my biggest fears. Like, alright, I'm gonna shoot first and aim later. Hopefully, I'd, you know, my fears that I won't miss.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: So when you start when you start understanding all that stuff and you're able to see somebody and meet with somebody at the table for a closing, I mean, you know what you can talk about. You know what you cannot talk about. Mhmm. You know what's gonna make a difference in conversation, be interested in. Right?

Simply because of their behavioral tendencies and strengths.

Steve: So is there a quick way for you to identify as well as D, I, S, or C?

Rafael: Yes. There is. The most the most or the easiest way to do it is is it's body language and tonality. Mhmm. Basically if if somebody is, and there's trainings out there.

But if somebody, what did you say, if somebody's a high driver, you're gonna be looking at somebody who can, who's very dynamic in communication. And they're very task oriented. So, bottom line oriented. Right? Some if you're talking to somebody who's high influencer, they're gonna be dynamic in communication as well.

So, loud, you know, vivid. But they're gonna be more people oriented than task oriented. They're usually like more But, yeah, when you're talking to, and I'm I'm I'm a high DI. That's a crazy thing. So my my analytical side, it's learned behavior.

But, when you're talking to somebody who's a high high supportive, they're gonna be more monotone, kind of mellow, more chill. It doesn't mean that they're not enjoying the moment. They're not processing information. It's just the way that they communicate and they're they're gonna be very very, people oriented. Yeah.

So, when you're having a conversation with somebody who's who's high as you can pick up words. Right? If The whole conversation is about them taking care of their their, you know, aunt or grandma or some. You know, you can have a pretty decent idea of what the priorities are. Yeah.

You know, that person. When you're talking to somebody who's very analytical, they're also more more monotone, kinda, you know, laid back and reserved, kind of communication. But they're very task oriented.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: So they're gonna be monotone and and usually talking about bottom line kind of stuff, statistics, not necessarily stuff that's gonna move the needle. Mhmm. But details, you know, the finer details. Okay. Something that makes sense and logic.

So they're they're logic oriented.

Steve: So I've taken a disc

Rafael: Crash course.

Steve: Test multiple times. Times. And one thing that's consistent is the s. The d and the c oscillate. Sometimes I'm a d, sometimes I'm a c.

It just depends on the situation. Right? But I'm an s. Meaning, I'm pretty good at the poker table because you're gonna have a hard time reading. We're pretty stoic.

Yeah. But we were at the meetup and the last meetup. I was frustrated because of the seating arrangement and it just wasn't conducive to how many people we had. We told them how many people we were ringing.

Rafael: That was a big turnout.

Steve: It was a huge turnout, but we told them how many people were coming and they just didn't have it set up correctly. Right? So I'm on the front of the room looking in the audience trying to figure out, like, how can we organize this next time? And you gave me a suggestion. Right?

Why don't we just set up as a classroom style? I didn't acknowledge it. I didn't say yes. I didn't say no. But go back to being pretty stoic.

Most people can't really read me. And before I even said something else, it's like, hold on. You don't like my idea. You're reading me. Right?

Yeah.

Rafael: You don't

Steve: like my idea. What don't you like about my idea? So I thought that was impressive because no one else really, you know, calls me out on that. So how are you able to read me even if I am, you know, if I have a poker face?

Rafael: It's it's a lot of it, it's in micro movements, pacifying movements, if you wanna call it that. So what happened there, and and I recall, I think we were towards the back of the room.

Steve: We were in the very front of room looking out across

Rafael: the room. Because the the door was on the opposite end. Yeah. So yeah. Deep end of the room.

Yeah. So so you you did what you did was, you you were you were you were motioning something with your hands and then you dropped your hand Mhmm. And you covered it with the other one and just kinda rub your your arm a little bit. So, I mean, that's a micro movement, but it's a pacifying movement. Mhmm.

It's a comforting think of it as like a

Steve: A baby.

Rafael: Yeah. I mean, it was your blankie for that, you know, for that one second. So you went like that and not necessarily processing, it was just uncomfortable. So so it was Alright. Cool.

And then, I mean, that that to me was a clear tale. But when you're used to to, to doing that all the time, it it it becomes, you know, it just pops up. Yeah. So the more you practice, the better you get and the better you can communicate. For example, we we were able to kinda carry that conversation a little bit, you know, further Mhmm.

Because I picked that up. And it obviously resonated with you because you remember it today.

Steve: Yeah. So but that's, you know, I think that's the huge thing. Right? Because you talk about doing million dollars three years in a row. Obviously, it helped to be a part of Sean's organization.

Rafael: Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve: But you still have to win. And, you know, in fact, you and I were competing without knowing we were competing at that time. So this is why I wanted to, you know, for everyone to talk about this because there is something here as far as, you know, getting better at communicating through DISC, through psychology. I mean, you said it was a master's in psychology. So these are things that maybe they can't learn all these things quickly, but at least they should be aware of these concepts

Rafael: Right.

Steve: Because this will make it easier to close. Because just that little thing. Right? Me doing just rubbing my arm, you could tell, like, you kept the conversation going further versus, like, alright. This conversation is over, and we're on the changing the topic, which is, like, my go to move.

I'll just change the topic.

Rafael: Yeah. Well, it that's a very clear example of what I was talking about earlier. Whenever you're negotiating and you press for something and you you're able to pick it up Mhmm. That's, you know, I pressed for something else. So I pivoted from, you know, what I was talking about because I saw that.

Mhmm. Like, alright. So that's rubbing you off the wrong way, literally. And, and, you know, kinda, you know, pushed a little more into it and we we just opened up the topic. Right.

And then, I think we we came up with another venue that was a a potential, you know. Yeah. The conversation evolved a little bit after that.

Steve: So Right.

Rafael: But that's a beautiful that's a beautiful thing about communication and understanding how to how to, approach people. It's not about deceit. It's not about, you know, reading minds. It's not it's simply just understanding, okay, how can my communication be better? Yeah.

How can I convey what I'm trying to say in a matter that they're gonna understand? Yeah. So

Steve: Is there a reference book, I don't know, online course, something you could recommend somebody to get better in in in in the disc and the the body language? I mean, I mean, we know, like, communication rights, 55% body language.

Rafael: Right.

Steve: So is there something that you could recommend, like, you know, this is something that you need to check out?

Rafael: Body language? I do. I can't I can't recall the, the titles. Mhmm.

Steve: But I

Rafael: can send them to you. You can put them in the footnotes. There's a few books out there that I think are really good. Anything in disc, really. I mean, like I said, it it all stems from from the same stuff.

And you'll see it dressed up as different, you know, products or packages or whatever. But everything comes really evolves from from those four main buckets. I mean, you have subcategories. Right? And when you because we have, you know, strong tendencies and then primaries and secondaries and and all that stuff applies into it.

But anybody who wants to learn about it, all you gotta do is, I mean, look it up online. Just DISC assessment. You're gonna get, you know, a thousand and one results and

Steve: Well, there's no shortage of results. That's why I was asking, is there any particular resource that you'd recommend?

Rafael: Off the top of my head, I have a few books. Actually, one of the best books is called Disc, d I s c.

Steve: Really?

Rafael: Yeah. I can't remember the name of the author, but that's the name of the book. And it's more of a textbook Yeah. Than than than a, you know, a tradition read.

Steve: Right.

Rafael: Yeah. But it's disc. It's crazy. I'm not lying. Alright.

Steve: I'm not

Rafael: trying to dodge or get out of that question. But I'll look up those titles, and I'll I'll send them to you.

Steve: Alright. Sounds good. And we'll post them later on down below. So you made a pivot. Alright.

So three years Mhmm. And then you off went off to do your own thing. So well, I guess before you even transitioned there, working with Sean, obviously, pay per click was a big source. I know for the longest time, it was just basically me and Sean. I was like, who is this guy with this old lady?

Right? You know which one I'm talking about. Yeah. It was like the security title. It was like me with I can't remember her name.

And she had glasses on, and she's got, like, the hair bunned up, whatever.

Rafael: Yeah. She still rocks it, man. I'm telling you. That lady knows her business.

Steve: And so pay per click was a big source of it. Do you know what I think direct mail was a big piece.

Rafael: Direct mail, that we were doing a lot of direct mail kind of stuff. And and, I mean, marketing wasn't as easy as it is now. Yeah. Now, it's I mean, it's the the way that you can reach people, it's it's it's a lot faster. It's a lot cheaper.

Mhmm. It's a lot easier, you know, to set up and you can automate it and you can all kinds of creative things now. But it was it was more of a daunting task back then. Rerouting all the the callbacks, I mean, and it just, you know

Steve: Very expensive.

Rafael: Yeah. Very expensive.

Steve: So, when you were on this team, right, doing these running these big numbers, what were you getting as acquisition, like, as far as percentage goes? 10. 10. Yeah.

Rafael: I was running at 10%.

Steve: 10%. Okay. And then you made a decision to venture off on your own.

Rafael: Yeah. After I like, I've always been an entrepreneur. Mhmm. So my my idea was was, you know, come in and then learn from and I I even told him that right out of, you know, when we sat down to when he interviewed me, but was to, you know, give my give it my all, give it my best and, you know, learn and, you know, open up my own my own business. So I I transitioned into a couple of different things after that.

Steve: Yeah. Like?

Rafael: Well, I opened a wholesome business, which is Pulse Capital. And then, I'm a real estate broker as well. So I have Pulse Realty and Associates. Yeah. And, and CEO of Pulse, which is my organizational psychology Yeah.

Business. And I do a lot of, consulting work for industries that are not necessarily just real estate related. Mhmm. So that's my it started as a passion project, really, and and it just evolved into something something different.

Steve: So what's I don't think I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, like, I love organizational psychology. Yeah. So what is it about it that's passionate that, like, gets passionate from you?

Rafael: It's I had to I had to learn how to do, when I had the transportation company because there's a lot of logistics that go into it. I had to learn how to how to develop systems around it and automate it. Right? Mhmm. I couldn't drive two vehicles at once, and I started as a solo.

Just one dude with one phone, one van, and then got a contract and just things got crazy. So I had to figure it out really quick. And and and I started putting systems together, and it worked out. And I think that's where I where I got the, the I knew that I loved setting up automations. I mean, some people like playing video games.

I mean, I I just like to mess around with how can I make it easier? I have a really good friend of mine, Jason. And, and he, he would look at the stuff that I would put together, and he would look, man, this is is just complicated. Only you understand it because I, you know, I I would understand the flow. But when I was trying to to convey it, like, it was hard to train and and all that stuff.

So he he instilled this this idea of the easy button. Right? Mhmm. So now every time I I look at a business process, every time I look at, you know, anything that I wanna put together that I wanna delegate or automate, one of the two, I I started with, you know, I reverse engineer it, and then I think of the easy button every step of the way. Okay.

How can I cut a step? How can I make this easier? How can I make it faster? How can I make it run leaner? And, and to me, I mean, it's just, I like doing that.

It's, it's, it raises the bottom line of every business. You spend less. You train less. There's less attrition. People people are happier.

It's like the magic pill man for for happiness and culture business. I think

Steve: again, you're selling something. I think it's really hard to sell. I don't think anyone gets excited about this stuff. But, you know, we were talking about before we, we we started was that it sounds like and, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like this is the e myth. Right?

Like, you basically help people create this e myth. You're Michael Gerber walk into their business and and and just optimizing

Rafael: Right.

Steve: Their business.

Rafael: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so, one example I like to use it's it's, on a, you know, when you go to a psychologist or somebody goes to a psychologist, they sit down and then they tell the psychologist there are problems. It happens the same way.

It's it just happens with businesses.

Steve: So, I

Rafael: come in as an organizational psychologist and look at the way the operation is running, see what happens, see the, you know, make sure that the people and the systems operate well. A lot of times this is happening. So, you have a conflict between the two of them and it's just not matching. But whenever you're able to connect them and interlace them properly, I mean, it's just everything starts flowing. And I love, I love that, you know, just the fact that I can come in and then figure it out.

It's kinda like a, I mean, it's a good challenge. That's

Steve: what's rewarding. Yeah.

Rafael: It's rewarding. Yeah. And and getting paid, of course. But

Steve: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So I imagine, you know, we've talked to multiple wholesalers. I mean, we're friends with a lot of people in town. Do you talk to wholesalers outside this market or predominantly in this market?

Rafael: Predom no. For the most part here.

Steve: Okay. So without naming any names then, what do you think are the biggest organizational issues with a lot of wholesalers that either where they are today or when starting? Bottlenecks. Alright. So let's talk about that.

Rafael: So it's it's very easy to start, doing transactions and become a bottleneck for for for, you know, it doesn't matter if you're a big company or a small company. Mhmm. If you're a one man shop and you're micromanaging, you're becoming a bottleneck. Yeah. Not creating enough leaders within within the company that either because you're giving them the tools to operate and the freedom to operate, or because you're just breathing down people's necks.

And I see that happening quite a bit. But, what happens is that you come to a bottleneck. Take acquisitions or marketing for example. Alright. I'm gonna do all the marketing because I wanna get it done right.

And then marketing comes in. And then I'm gonna do all the locking because I wanna get it run. Nobody can, you know, lock the same spreads that I can. $25,000 on average. And then what happens, yeah.

You're you're so busy locking that you can't dispel. You're so busy marketing that you can't lock. Mhmm. And and you just become, you know, bottleneck. So whenever you, whenever you have something that doesn't flow, that it's not, I I I I repeat the term linear.

It's it's the, something should come in on this side and monetize on this side. Mhmm. And just flow like that.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: Instead of having bottlenecks every, you know, every other step. And I think that's one of the biggest problems.

Steve: So, inability to delegate effectively?

Rafael: Yeah. And I think a lot of that comes from fear of of people not being able to perform. Which if you take another level deeper, it's it's it comes from from lack of operating systems. Mhmm. I mean, not having a good And and I wanna make this, emphasize on this.

It's there's a difference between what what's protocol Mhmm. And what an operating system is. So an operating system gets helps you with the heavy lifting. Right? Yeah.

And then the protocol and the process, it's instructions. So that still has to be managed. When you have an operating system, a lot of that management is done by you. Or done by the system itself. I'm sorry.

Yeah. So, it's, and this is an industry that's not, I mean, it's getting to the point where it's getting a little bit more regulated. We're seeing that. You know, we've seen that change in a couple states. But it's not, it's not a common business model.

Steve: Right.

Rafael: Right now, it's gotten popular, over the last couple years. Yeah. Everybody and their moms now wants to Everybody

Steve: wants to

Rafael: be a local. Yeah. And, but it I think there's there's a there's a lack of of simple and effective, and efficient Mhmm. Systems.

Steve: Yeah. That's a great insight. So, you mentioned you're a real estate broker. Yeah. Which I think is crazy.

But how much traditional business are you doing? I

Rafael: don't do a lot anymore. Mhmm. For the most part, it's it's I mean, running running the brokerage and, you know, broker stuff. As far as however, one big upside to doing a lot of marketing on the wholesale side Mhmm. Is that if you can't monetize it as whole, wholesale, you pivot and then you you push in a list of it.

Steve: Absolutely.

Rafael: So we get leads like that all the time.

Steve: You know what's crazy? I remember I was visiting Brent's office, Brent Daniels office. Right? You know, we're hanging out. He's a stunning homes agent.

Don't steal him. So, we're hanging out and we look across we look across the hall. I was like, pulse.

Rafael: Yeah. I know this guy.

Steve: I didn't. At the time, I didn't put two and two together because I thought you were still at I was at West USA or

Rafael: Right.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't know that you had finally opened your thing. Mhmm. I was like, Pulse.

I wonder what this thing is.

Rafael: Pulse really in this. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So it's crazy that you just, I don't know. Did you know when you put picked that spot, you were picking a spot across from Brent?

Rafael: No. It it it was it was funny because it was the only office they had available. Yeah. And, I mean, it was

Steve: Of all spots.

Rafael: Of all spots right across the hall from from Brent. And, and, yeah, man. We hit it it. I was a super cool dude to work with. I love working.

I get a lot done when I go into the office, but but it's fun, man.

Steve: He's an incredible guy. Incredible. Yeah. That's all. So what does your organization look like today?

Rafael: Are you talking about, wholesale? Wholesale. So so it's it's running off of my platform, which is the operating system. I do I do the the marketing, and I set it up at the beginning of the month, and it just runs automatically. So it'll take me maybe an hour to kinda, you know, filter what I wanna hit that month Mhmm.

And then automate it, you know. Let it run. It all comes into the operating system. I have, I just brought another acquisitions guy, but we're up to five guys, and I'm gonna cap it off there. And they come in and they work the, the process, just the operating system process, and they start, you know, locking deals and everything.

So, aside from that, it's a dispo. But it I mean, it's a pretty lean it's a lean model.

Steve: So five acquisition guys. Right. And they get paid.

Rafael: Yeah.

Steve: Per part of the deal? Percentage. Percentage of

Rafael: the deal. Yeah. So they start up 15, and they'll build up to 20%.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. And then you have a disposition? Yeah. Okay.

So there's another disposition guy.

Rafael: Well, there was up to there was for

Steve: Al Cortez.

Rafael: Right. He was up to two weeks ago, and then it didn't pan out well. So I I started jumping in at, you know, two weeks ago. So, yeah. Right now, I'm actually hiring a Dispel guy, if you know anybody.

But, so I need a Dispel guy. And, but the model itself is it's right now, we just started doing it. It's something I should have done a while back, but I started doing, weekly meetings, which is, you know You weren't doing weekly meetings? No. Because we hadn't we we hadn't really built up the traction yet.

So the Yeah.

Steve: You helped Sean build out his weekly meetings.

Rafael: Yeah. That was fun. But, so the we we were following KPIs, but not doing, training on on weekly meetings. Yeah. And that's that's what I'm incorporating into it.

So I had I mean, like, the guys have access to me and we'll, you know, talk a bit about a deal and break it down. And then, okay, this is what we can do. And we all we all learn that way, but it's I don't think there's nothing like having a formal, sit down with with actual training

Steve: on a

Rafael: weekly basis. So besides the KPI meetings and the team meetings, I mean, we're doing, weekly trainings, which I mean, I think is gonna be a big change.

Steve: Gotcha. So So five acquisition guys. Mhmm. One soon to be disposition guy.

Rafael: Right.

Steve: Anybody else?

Rafael: No. Not for the wholesale.

Steve: Not for the virtual assistants?

Rafael: No. I had a couple of virtual assistants. Didn't pan out too well. I actually got rid of my, my cold calling guys, I had three of them lined up. And right I'm I'm I'm doing a different somewhat of a different model right now, and I took this off of it.

I think I talked about it with Scott. But it's it's, based on merit. Right? Mhmm. So, basically, I have any at any point in time, there's over, you know, 200 leads that we can work from people who are they've called back to some type of of reach, Some type of marketing.

So not all of them are qualified leads, but for example, what the acquisition guy is going into their, you know, into the bucket, lead bucket. And then they'll start working the lead, they'll see it. And then if it's a lead, they'll convert it. If not, it'll take them thirty seconds to just suppress it. Right?

Mhmm. But they have the ability to pick fifty, forty, a 100 leads if they want to. They just have to work them. Otherwise, it'll revert back to the, to the open bucket. And what I'm seeing is that that, there there's there's motivation behind it.

So you'll see, like, the guys that come in that work two or three leads a day Mhmm. And then the guy that just went all out in 40, you know, 40 leads and he's closed three deals. Like, I have one of one of the guys is he's, last week he closed two deals. Week before that he closed another one. So, I mean, it's stuff that, you know, that's happening because, you know, he's just putting in the work.

Yeah. So, I don't know. It's just I thought it was an interesting model. It was worth a shot. And, and it seems to be working well so so far.

I am gonna be you know, bring in support and then just, you know, do lead gen

Steve: to

Rafael: help out with with, with leads and do maybe a combination of the two. I just think it's it's a really interesting

Steve: So having them go over it versus having a lead manager

Rafael: Right.

Steve: Do the follow-up.

Rafael: Right. Interesting. And it's it's, when you have the wrong lead manager Mhmm. And you have that first point of contact with the seller, I mean, you can you can also lose them Right. You know, really quick.

And these guys already know what they're talking about. So they they I mean, it just made sense. And that's that's how I worked with, when I was with Sean. I mean, it just give me a direction, and people would better get out of my way because I'm gonna I'm gonna run fast and crush it. So, I mean, that's the kind of people that I wanna work with.

Right? And and, and so far, it's been People don't work if they filter themselves out real quick.

Steve: So Yeah. Self deselect. Yeah. It's a great process. Yeah.

So what are the best lead sources for you right now?

Rafael: The easiest best resources right now, foreclosures. Mhmm. We're we're we're seeing a lot more of those than we were maybe six six

Steve: months ago. Yeah. I read that this morning in the news. Yeah?

Rafael: Okay. Cool. So so I have it I have it set up so we get, as soon as the foreclosure hits, automatically gets funneled into our into our lead bucket and then just becomes available to be to work to be worked. How are you doing that? Magic.

Steve: It's pretty good.

Rafael: Through the, through the operating system. No. We actually, one of the sources I use for that, it's, PropertyRadar.

Steve: Okay. So PropertyRadar would just kick it into Podio?

Rafael: Right. Into my podium.

Steve: Max, we need to make that happen.

Rafael: I told Max about it the other day.

Steve: Oh, he didn't tell me.

Rafael: So so yeah. I think I showed him I showed him, the operating system. But, but yeah. So just just having the ability, you know, to to to push it right away

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: And it's I mean, it's as soon as they hit, it's ready for the guys.

Steve: Speed to lead.

Rafael: Yeah. And then you they open it. It's, you know, click to call. It's right there. It's I mean, it's beautiful.

Yeah. But, so that campaign is very cost effective. It's cheap.

Steve: So you do click to call. You don't do Mojo.

Rafael: Right. I I was doing Mojo with the cold callers, and I I call it off. It's just pricier. Okay. Yeah.

So, the,

Steve: So you're using CallRail or a smartphone?

Rafael: Smart phone. Okay.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: I just switched, actually. It was a it was a recommendation, from one of my mutual friends.

Steve: Yeah. And, And for for you guys listening to smartphone, it's SMRT.

Rafael: SMRT. Yeah. Yeah. So I I switched to that, and then, I mean, it's just a lot easier. Yeah.

Yeah. So, the tracking, the integration is is is it's it's also, you know, building into audio and all that. So, you can connect the plug in very well. So, yeah. My platform, where I run it, it's it's a ported platform.

So, yeah. I went off on a tangent. What was the question?

Steve: Pre foreclosures.

Rafael: Pre foreclosures. Right. It's a very, I mean, that to me, for me, it's a very cheap campaign. And it's, you know, hottest leads. So, pre foreclosures.

Steve: Very low cost.

Rafael: Yeah. Low cost. It it's, as long as you work them, you're fine. And aside from that, it's really a numbers game for for for me. Not necessarily, you know, picking the right winner when it comes to, okay, what's the list source that you're gonna, you know, blast out and hit?

It's it's just it's a numbers game. I mean, the more people that you talk and make contact with, you know, the better response they're gonna have.

Steve: So pre foreclosures, but you're not doing direct mail? You're not calling probate?

Rafael: No. I'm not I'm not doing direct mail. Right now, what I'm doing is RVM. Mhmm. Voice mail drops and and and, SMS.

Yeah. So so, yeah. Between that, I mean, that's that's my marketing. And it's it's pretty, you know, automated. It's easy to set up.

Turn it on. If we get, like, for example, we get a bunch of leads in in in our lead bucket Mhmm. I just pause it. And then, you know, after the guys start, you know, going through leads Yeah. You know Go

Steve: pause it? Yeah. I'll pause it. Even if there's no cost to it?

Rafael: Yeah. Because I don't wanna get, you know, saturated with leads that the guys are not working yet. So Mhmm. You you know what I mean?

Steve: I I know what you're I hear what you're saying. It's just one of those things as an organization, it's always hard to turn on.

Rafael: No. No. No. No. No.

Like, you're talking about the, the the foreclosure ones. Those that

Steve: don't pause.

Rafael: Okay. When I'm talking about the RBM or the voice mail, you

Steve: know,

Rafael: the Gotcha. SMS and all that stuff,

Steve: stuff

Rafael: is gonna cost. Yeah. So that stuff so we're saturated with leads. I'll pause that.

Steve: Gotcha.

Rafael: Okay. A day or two and then, you know, leads come, you know, back down and then turn it on and then it's like I mean, just open up the funnel again.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: Start hitting them.

Steve: So I think a big thing here because, you know, we're talking about organizational psychology Mhmm. And you're obsessed with optimizing your organization.

Rafael: Yeah.

Steve: So you built out your own Podio. Yeah. So talk about how that's that experience and how it's benefited you.

Rafael: Game changer. Yeah. Complete game changer, at least for me. Like I said, it's it's the whole purpose of doing that was to get rid of the bottlenecks and I was bottlenecked at every every, I mean, every pit stop. It was me.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: Like, alright. Cool. There's only, you know, I gotta go on appointments but I wanna turn on the marketing but I gotta dispo this. So I'd be discipling from the car. And, you know, classic stuff that we all go through.

So when I started, I started messing around with Podio and, and, and the workflows in the back end and just putting all that stuff together. It like, alright, cool. If, if I, you know, combine these two things, it's gonna save me, I don't know, five minutes. So I I build it out. I used to to spend about, to run a decent analysis on a property.

Anywhere from thirty five to forty minutes looking at comps, looking at the area. You know, thresholds for offers and all that stuff. So, with what I build, my guys can do it. They they can do it the way that I do it based on my my parameters. The exact same process basically took the way that I do it, and put it into a system.

And, all they do is type in an address and wait a couple seconds and they'll get a full analysis. You know, right out. With, you know, comps, with thresholds, one click contracts. So I have I have a cool story. It's, I was working when I first put it into into, into motion.

I, like, I had a, I built in the, the contracts, that automation.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: I had a client and I brought him from the leads, from Leadsbucket. And I had the guy, I called the guy and I had him on the phone. And we were going over it and, and, you know, over the deal scenario. So the guy wanted, you know, he wanted to sell. I clicked the button and he created an analysis.

Right? So I move on to the analysis side and and all the numbers are there. I am with the guy maybe a total of about fifteen minutes. So I'm going through the conversation. He wanted an offer right there and then.

Like, well send me an offer and he gave me his email address and everything. And, so like, well give me give me a second. And I'm working, you know, some numbers and I, you know, we went over just a brief conversation. I clicked the button generated the contract. Send him an offer.

He, he was sitting in his computer. So he got it. He signed it and sent it back. So I had a a signed contract within twelve minutes. And then that's from first point of contact, lead gen Mhmm.

To the actual contract being back and signed by the guy. I mean, property analysis, write offers, and all that stuff. I mean, it was beautiful. And you

Steve: got the whole executed contract. Yeah. Yeah. Back within your portfolio.

Rafael: Right. It, I mean, went back into straight back into the deal. And and since then, I built other stuff like, one click escrow, you know. Yeah. You know how you have to put all that info together like seller's phone.

I mean, to me, I hate doing that kind of stuff.

Steve: Right.

Rafael: And and so I build it in, you know, I also build it in. Anything I don't like doing, I'll automate it through that. But it's

Steve: That's awesome.

Rafael: If it's not, you know, something like that, it's it's that, you know, people should consider at least, you know, operating in in a similar way with whatever whatever, you know, platform they choose.

Steve: But Right. And you're but you're moving human error.

Rafael: Right. That's the biggest thing.

Steve: And humans really.

Rafael: Yeah. Well, biggest example is in contracts. Yeah. Like, it it's I mean, how many shitty contracts have you seen? Shady contracts?

Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Is it bad offers or poorly written?

Rafael: No, poorly written where where everything is. I mean, it's it's it's not legible. It's it's a bad copy. I mean, it's it's just the clauses are off and Yeah. You know, and

Steve: Sucked like

Rafael: Yeah. Right. So so, for example, right now on on on I have six six pieces of information that I need. Mhmm. They they can't mess it up because they're doing it on on the, on the contract generator.

Right? Mhmm. So, they'll type in that stuff. Click a button and then the contract's populated. But they're not gonna, you know, they're gonna they're not gonna omit, skip or anything like that because everything is in one single, you

Steve: know,

Rafael: little spot. Right. Just having that thought process behind it. And and like that was a bottleneck. Cool.

I'm gonna send you an offer. Perfect. We agree on a price. And then you have a bottleneck that you can't. Like, alright.

I gotta send three three contracts. But I'm gonna go to dinner with my family and and I'm gonna be back at eight. Mhmm. So it's gonna be nine. I don't wanna send the email that late.

And then, I mean, next thing you know, you're you're twenty four hours late on that contract that you could have just clicked and sent.

Steve: Alright.

Rafael: So that's a bottleneck being removed.

Steve: That's huge. So let's go to some of these questions. Christopher Rui wants to know you purchased property with a VA loan that has a second mortgage as well. His first contract congratulations, Christopher.

Rafael: Hey. Congrats.

Steve: So do you wanna answer that?

Rafael: So he has a VA loan on the first. And what is the second?

Steve: It just says has a second mortgage.

Rafael: Has a second mortgage?

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: So second mortgage is gonna be a loan. Well, the VA loan, it's and he wants to do seller financing on it? Did did you mention anything?

Steve: Wholesale it.

Rafael: He wants to wholesale it?

Steve: I think it's just I think it's a simple answer. It's no need to overthink it. It's his first contract.

Rafael: Yeah. Alright. Yeah. So, yeah. I I was going into a rabbit hole there.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for taking me out. Yeah. No.

It doesn't matter. If it's a VA loan, I mean, you can still you can still wholesale it. Make make sure the numbers make sense. And, and work your thresholds. Yeah.

Straight.

Steve: And then Ramon Potasas wants to know, what are you using for SMS?

Rafael: SMS, there's a platform called Slingshot that you can use.

Steve: For SMS?

Rafael: Yeah. It's SMS and our VM. It does both.

Steve: Okay. That's different than because I thought you were using Roar.

Rafael: It it it is. It's it's it's part of the the Roar platform too.

Steve: Oh, so okay. And then, William Baker wants to know, do you do digital marketing, like, pay per click SEO or YouTube? Nope. Okay. Alright.

So going back to here, so pre foreclosures, pulling data. Are you pulling data right now?

Rafael: Yes. I am. I do wanna I pull data on a regular basis.

Steve: And then what are you using for skip

Rafael: tracing? For I actually have a license where I can pull data, my own my own data with with, with numbers on it. Mhmm. There's there's a lot of, companies out there that are really good when it comes to to the quality of the skip tracing batch, you know, is one of them. Mhmm.

Steve: And,

Rafael: but, I mean, I just pull I mean, I pull volume. So Yeah. So I'm able to pull my own data from there.

Steve: And then, you know, we talked about doing a million dollars a year, you know, in three consecutive years, which is really sexy. Thank you. What are you doing right now?

Rafael: I did it on a V neck too. What am I doing right now? Yeah. What kind

Steve: of volume doing today?

Rafael: Volume, we're, on average, anywhere from five to eight deals.

Steve: Five to eight deals in

Rafael: like Yeah. I think that's gonna ramp up here pretty quick with with the new stuff that I'm I'm putting out there.

Steve: And what kind of, what's your average fee?

Rafael: Well, we're closing on one that's 20 k. Average fee is about it's gonna be about 17. Between 17 and 20. Yeah. My my average, closing is 20 about 26,000.

Yeah. Spreads. I mean, that that was my average word. Oh. Per case.

When I gonna go to

Steve: And you said that you're ramping up some big things. You wanna talk about those things?

Rafael: Yeah. I mean, in terms of, trainings and and just empowering more, you know, the people that I have within within the company. So it's not I've I've been so focused on building the operating system, making all that, you know, work seamlessly that that, yeah, like right now we're using it. But, when you throw in the the mindset side of things, I mean that that's just a game changer. It's something that I've been, neglecting.

Not not for because of a choice, but, just because I've been saturated with with other stuff. Mhmm. And it's something that I wanna get more into. And I think that's gonna be a game changer too.

Steve: So Gotcha. How are you disbowing properties right now? I know that you're that's your that's your seat again. Or you're in that seat again.

Rafael: Yeah. I am back in that seat. So the process for disbowing, it's pretty I hardly ever really blast them out. For the most part, I sell them within, you know, a day or two. I have a a, like, a tight list of buyers that I go to all the time.

Mhmm. And these guys usually pick it up. Yeah. So I do I mean, my buyers list is it's close to 50,000. So I'll I'll send out, you know, a few properties to the full list, but for the most part, they get sold in that first first leg of the the dispo.

Gotcha.

Steve: That's with Infodio? Yeah. You're not calling these people?

Rafael: No. Okay. No. No. So I have it I have it set up where where you get a property, click a button, and they get a text with link.

Mhmm. So

Steve: It's, like, five people, eight people on that first

Rafael: No. I have it's I think it's about 18 people. Yeah. It's about 18 people.

Steve: Gotcha. What are you spending monthly on marketing?

Rafael: Peanuts. Really, it's not I mean, it it it's it depends on how heavy I wanna go on the on the RVM and SMS. But, I mean, that's really cheap too.

Steve: So Yeah. It's really cheap. Yeah. We love that. So then what's your

Rafael: monthly overhead? I would marketing? I would say because all

Steve: your expenses combined. This is this is

Rafael: what I do. This might be interesting for for the listeners. It it's, so I throw out I throw out, a thousand numbers. Right? A thousand, like, when I turn on a campaign, I run it for a couple hours and it throws out a thousand contacts a day.

Mhmm. That's it. Boom. Steady. Boom.

Boom. Boom. Boom. Reason for it, because I can track I can track the, just easier if you stay consistent and carry that, you know, a few months, quarter. You can track the ROI.

You can track and it's right now, it's given us enough volume of leads Mhmm. That it's dripping. So I'll send out a thousand, and on average, I'll get about, I don't know, 200 responses back. They're not disclaimer, they're not all qualified buyers. Right.

Or sellers, I'm sorry. But but, we are getting, you know, a fairly good response from that. Mhmm. So I'll send out a thousand dollar daily, and SMS, RVM. And then the budget for that, I mean, it's it's it's a couple thousand dollars a month.

Yeah. Yeah. And it I mean, it depends on how heavy, you know, what list you're hitting, wherever you you you know, where you're getting your your sources from.

Steve: So you're not doing, like, on a daily, a blast. You're doing, like, you're saying beginning of the month, I'm gonna send out a thousand a day I

Rafael: turn it on. Yeah. So so, for example, I'll I'll get a I'll get a a campaign of 20,000 numbers Mhmm. And I'll turn that on. And then it just, you know, it drips.

So I don't have to touch it. I touch it at the beginning of the month.

Steve: And you're doing that all within Podio or within another platform?

Rafael: No. That's that's the other platform. So I set I set up the marketing the other platform, but all my KPIs are tracked through, through Podio.

Steve: Is that within Slingshot where you say I wanna do a thousand a day? You wanna hit a thousand?

Rafael: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's, yeah. So I turned that on and it I have it so you can you can throttle it.

Right? And and and you turn it on, you know, you want more delivered, less delivered. So I have, I picked about five numbers that I'm sending from. Mhmm. And, and I set the throttle at about 01:25.

And it'll give me about a thousand drops a day if I run it from, you know, for like three hours.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: So, so that's that's a pretty consistent pace. And and the cool thing about it is that I can turn it on, turn it off. It's so easy to set up. I mean, it's already I mean, it literally takes me minutes at the beginning of the month to set up the marketing for the month and just let it roll.

Steve: Daniel Perito wants to know, are you pushing out your leads through IVR, or are you doing a live answer?

Rafael: We were doing a live answer, but I got rid of the, the cold callers. So right now, they're just going into my lead buckets.

Steve: As a voice mail or IVR?

Rafael: Voice mail.

Steve: Voice mail.

Rafael: Yeah. I'm I'm not using IVR. I haven't I don't know if I haven't tried that, so I don't know if it works or not.

Steve: Yeah. Andrew Reeves wants to know how much you're spending in skip tracing monthly.

Rafael: I don't skip trace because I just pull my own data. So it's already attached.

Steve: It's already included?

Rafael: Yeah. My my I get cell phones with it with it.

Steve: Abdul Rahman wants to know, are you gonna have that system available for everyone to purchase? I'm guessing he's talking about your, your your podium.

Rafael: Yeah. The operating system. Yeah. Yeah. It will.

I still wanna fine tune a couple of little things, more on the KPI side. All the, the, the functionality is set. Mhmm. But I don't wanna I don't wanna put something out that I'm gonna have to go back and then, you know, retweak it on every account. So

Steve: My fear is just managing it. Yeah. Right? Supporting it. Because you're gonna have to make tweaks for each state.

Rafael: Yeah.

Steve: Right? So but that's that's your priority.

Rafael: We're working on that. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's it's gonna be it's gonna be a version of it. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. What's SMS messaging message that you're sending out on your blast?

Rafael: Blast? Super simple, man. I mean, I I've tried the the very, you know, professional have you ever done, like, one of those voice mail drops and and and, and it sounds like a freaking cop's trying to buy your house? Hi. This is, you know, Eddie and I want to buy your property.

I mean, it it's

Steve: I don't listen to them. I just see them on my Google Voice.

Rafael: I I like to because I just wanna see what's out there. Yeah. But,

Steve: I get the text messages.

Rafael: But I've tried, I I tried, yeah. Sorry. I tried I tried so I've tried the very professional, you know, this is, you know, this company would not. And I tried the very simple kinda, you know, with background noise and and Mhmm. Just like in the car.

And that works a lot better

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: Than the professional stuff Of course. For voice mail drops. And then the text message, it's a follow-up message, and it's it's basically telling, you know, people, hey, listen. I just called you. I left you a voicemail.

Please give me a callback whenever you have a Yeah. You know, a second.

Steve: I've heard someone say, like, they they intentionally will have a baby crying in the background.

Rafael: I I don't know about it. Yeah.

Steve: Because it sounds like, you know, this is a mom trying to make a deal, like, you know, do business, support herself.

Rafael: Yeah. No. I I don't like those dark tactics. I like to make it simple. But

Steve: Matt Smith wants to know, do you have a better time and day for for your drops?

Rafael: Time and day. Afternoon works better for me. Mhmm. I get, I see a lot better response than when I drop, like, at 10AM. Yeah.

So, just evening. Early evening.

Steve: And how often are you switching phone numbers?

Rafael: Usually about every forty five days.

Steve: So going back to, you know, your passion, what what is your why? What's driving you today?

Rafael: RabbitHole. I I love that question, man. It's it's, I've gotten criticized sometimes for for doing, you know, what the hell are you are you doing this week? Mhmm. I'm I'm I'm I'm known for having a lot of multiple projects going on.

And, but I commit to each one of them. Mhmm. Every time I I I'm very curious and and if I decide to go into something, I'll commit to it. Now, I thought about, you know, the reason, you know, is it am I am I compensating? Was it I mean, I come from a very humble, background.

I grew up in a mobile home, so it's it's not, you know, it's it's I thought about that, you know, when I was when I was, you know, like, where's all the drive and the wanting to do things? You know, where is that coming from? So, I was talking to one of my mental coaches. Alphonse is a super cool guy. I love you.

And, and he, he helped me find the the why, the essence of the why, which in reality, to me, it's three different things. Right? So it's it's one, it's understanding my truth. Who I am, you know, what what I stand for. And then, you know, why I operate and then what the purpose is.

So it's it's all three different things. And that's how I see it. But for example, my why is is Yeah. Because I wanna better, you know, you know, my my way of life. I wanna contribute.

I wanna give back. I want my kids to do, you know, to, you know, I wanted to inspire, to inspire them to do better than than what I'm doing. Right? And and that's a great why. But at the end of the day, it's really, you know, because I why not?

Steve: Right.

Rafael: Like, because I can. It's just a beautiful life, man. Why why waste it away with with, you know, worries and and, like, can you do better? Yeah. Why not?

Yeah. It really comes down to to, you know, something that simple.

Steve: Well, you're not the only one that gets blasted for it because that's the same thing with me. Yeah. It's like, you know, like, why why do I wanna do what I wanna do? Like, I don't know. I just want to.

Rafael: Yeah. I want to. Like I

Steve: just wanna dominate. Like, I don't know why I wanna dominate. I don't

Rafael: know if I can drop f bombs a little bit, but it's it's it's because I effin' can,

Steve: you know?

Rafael: And and and that's a desire, wipe it out. You know? If it's a flame, it's a fire, it's it's something that's burning within you, man, by all means, go all out.

Steve: Insatiable desire to to dominate?

Rafael: Well, that and it it it's I don't think it's so much that that dominate, dominating for me

Steve: That's me.

Rafael: More than Yeah. You're very competitive. More than the contribution side of things. But to me it's exciting. I'm I'm super curious.

If I have anything that I that I that I think I'm like, that gives me the edge

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: Is that I'm always curious. And, and the the better I get as a person, the more books I read, you know, the better my mindset is. It's expanded. And and the cooler stuff, the cooler people, the cooler experiences that I get to have. Right?

Right. Then what happens when your why is just because you can? I mean, it's self empowering. You're not you're not really attached to to something else, to another, you know, depending on on on on the result and something else Yeah. To keep that Y going.

And and, and then what what happens is that when you start, you know, growing and discovering a lot, you know, a lot of stuff happens that you didn't even consider. And I'll speak for myself. Yeah. Like, wow, man. I wasn't I wasn't really expecting the

Steve: hell. I'm sitting here with you. Yeah.

Rafael: And and, you know, it's it's totally unexpected. Right. And, and it's amazing, man. It's so, that's that's the beauty of of just operating out of, you know, out of a sense of of personal power.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: And and why? Because you can. Right. Because why the hell not?

Steve: Absolutely. Why not? What is your biggest struggle right now?

Rafael: Biggest struggle. I have I think I I I, I have a tendency to to to, put a lot of things on my plate at the same time.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: And and they don't necessarily fall off, but sometimes I'll lose attention on one of them. For example, like right now, I know I have to get back into the developing the brokerage. Mhmm. So so my operating system, my my see my Pulse Capital business is Yeah. It's it's set up and that's a machine and that that, you know, that's going well.

My organizational psychology thing is it's, you know, CEO Pulse is is it's also picking traction too.

Steve: Mhmm.

Rafael: But I know I have to go back into into, you know, giving a little bit more love into that one. So, I mean, to me, it's one of the things that I struggle with is it's, it's just being being able to put myself in all the all the spots. So, I was gonna say something else, and I lost a train of thought.

Steve: I don't

Rafael: know what it was.

Steve: But too many passion projects.

Rafael: Right. Too curious.

Steve: So what would you say is your superpower?

Rafael: To to do to build the easy button. Just automate the automate things. Optimization. Yeah. I like I like that.

It's fun.

Steve: What is your favorite best or most interesting failure?

Rafael: Failure. I had a I've had a bunch. I've started biz I've I've tried to start businesses and they they didn't go. Or I stopped it halfway through it because of policy change or, you know, alternating stuff. But, I guess in terms of wholesale, I can think of one deal.

It wasn't usually, you wanna make money. Mhmm. Yeah. On that one, I ended up I ended up right. I ended up bringing money to the table, to close it.

And it wasn't, it was a it was a lady, in Sun City, West. So we had we had, we had the terms of the payoff. So we worked the numbers, and she was gonna get $5,000 at the end of it. She was moving to a, a dog care facility. And, and at the end of it, the payoff was different.

And she she wasn't gonna make those those five ks. So I scratched off, you know, the the couple thousand dollars. It went from being a a the couple thousand dollars. It went from being, about an $18,000 deal to to a couple thousand, which was okay with the payoff. But she was gonna be upside down, on the 5,000.

She was still gonna get money, but I ended up bringing like $800 just to make sure that she got 5,000 out of it. Yeah. And, so I put money into that

Steve: deal. Wow.

Rafael: But, she was a super nice lady.

Steve: Is there any book that you've gifted more than any other?

Rafael: Yes. Psycho cybernetics and, and, The Alchemist. Those books, I mean, to me are, they're very, we were talking about personal power and self image earlier, and, and, they, the perspective on those, both of those books on on what is purpose and then how you see yourself, it it's it's game changer. Yeah. Yeah.

So.

Steve: Alright. So I'm gonna let you think about one last thought you wanna leave everybody with while I make a couple of quick announcements. Cool. So, guys, we're three weeks away from, the workshop that Max and I are doing, two day workshop in September. Again, we are limiting access to a select group of people.

To see if you qualify, for the workshop in Phoenix, please go to disruptors.com. And then I'll be speaking in Houston, October for Whole Scaling Live. If you wanna go to that, go to wholescalinglive.com and put in r e d for 25% off. I'll also be in Biloxi, Mississippi, for Real Estate Roundup Live with Brent Marino and Adam Johnson, October. If you wanna check that out, go to bit.ly,ly.

So bit.ly/rerlive. And then, what was announced this past weekend, I'll be also speaking in New Orleans with Chris Rude. That's Grant Cardone's wholesale guy. That's December. So if you guys wanna hang out in New Orleans, Louisiana, which I bet would be pretty fun, that's December.

And then next week, we do have Franco Milan. He's gonna be talking about how he's wholesaling ten Ten plus deals a month in multiple states. He's running a crazy, crazy big operation. I was got to check out his office a month and a half ago to check out one of their meetings. It's just nuts what they're doing over there.

So with that, all that being said, what's the last thought you wanna leave the audience with?

Rafael: In in in any business, not just real estate. I mean, just doing doing the right thing and then, you know, by your clients. It's, I think it's one thing that we have, we have this stigma about wholesalers. Right? Mhmm.

Like, now they're just out there. Vultures. Vultures. And, you know, but there's a lot of, you know, good that can come from, from, I mean, from creating a win win. Yeah.

And, and I think that's not, it's not something that's completely emphasized. But doing that, you can make a lot of money and still do the right thing.

Steve: Yeah.

Rafael: And be transparent with people. A lot of people are afraid of, for example, getting real estate licenses because because they're wholesaling. And as long as you have transparency and you disclose and you do things right, do things right, there's no reason for anybody to be afraid, you know, to to, you know, to keep it account, keep yourself accountable, your company accountable like that. So Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome.

Steve: So if someone wants to get a hold of you, how would they do that?

Rafael: They can shoot me an email at rc@thepulsegroup.net. Or, find me on Instagram at rafael dot ceopulse, p u l s e.

Steve: Awesome. Cool. Thank you guys for watching. Thank you. Thank you

Rafael: very much, bro.

Steve: My pleasure.

Rafael: Appreciate the invite.