Flipping 700+ houses in 7 years!

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Welcome to our new studio, by the way. Today, we have my good buddy Nathan Brooks with Bridge Turnkey, and he flew in from, Saint Louis. No.

Kansas City Kansas City, Missouri talk about how he's flipped 700 houses in the last seven years. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, a sales trainer, and we help hundreds of people every single month buy more houses at deeper margins. I am personally on a mission to create 100 millionaires. Question I get all the time is how to become one of the 100 millionaires. The information on this pack on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years.

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This is a live show, so please ask your questions for Nathan to answer. You ready?

Nathan Brooks: Yes, sir.

Steve: Let's do it. Alright. So first question is simple. It's what got you into real estate?

Nathan: What got me into real estate?

Nathan: I remember, I played music professionally for, like, ten years. So I got out of school.

Steve: Ten years?

Nathan: Ten years. Yeah. So a decade. I played music both in the say

Nathan: secular and, sacred world. So big church stuff and, you know, rock and rowdy bands. But, I was hearing on the radio at the

Nathan: time about the Robert Kiyosaki and Richette Burnett.

Nathan: So I went to seminar, and I was, like,

Nathan: mind blown what people were talking about.

Nathan: And so I was literally sitting at lunch with my wife and overheard it again talking about real estate, and I walked up to him. And three weeks later,

Nathan: I was in business with him, which is also the worst business partner I have ever had to be clear.

Steve: Well, you partnered up with the very first person you met.

Nathan: Yes. I did take massive action,

Nathan: Sue, but, it was not my best decision. But, yeah, that's how I I literally,

Nathan: I I was reading, but I just I was kinda looking for that the channel to to get into it.

Steve: Yeah. And, man. So I

Nathan: I took action.

Steve: So massive action, which is something that I absolutely believe in. Yes. So when was this?

Nathan: This was, like, 2005.

Steve: 2005. So you've been playing for ten years, making a lot of money on tours or

Nathan: No. I was kind of

Nathan: I was I was making enough between, like, doing, lessons. So I could try to play guitar, play piano, play bass, so I could teach

Nathan: a few different instruments. Mhmm.

Nathan: And, so playing in

Nathan: bars and stuff. And then I've I had some church gigs as well, which, you

Nathan: know, it was an average salary at best looking

Steve: for it.

Nathan: Right? So just I wasn't wasn't receiving the the time the money value of the time that I was

Steve: Were you traveling to I was

Nathan: traveling to, doing doing events, playing, you know, in bigger events as well as doing,

Nathan: you know, local stuff too.

Steve: Yeah. And the reason why I'm asking is, right, because, like, you you most people only have a job, and they're like, oh my god. I hate my job. There's gotta be something better. Or, you know, like, should I go to college or should I do this?

You already have gone down your career route, but it was a non traditional career route. You're doing something which I imagine is your passion for you to do for ten years. You're passionate about it. So what what what was it about Rich Dad Poor Dad or or the mindset that compelled you to, you know, change directions?

Nathan: For sure. Well, I I saw the opportunity and and understood for

Nathan: the first time where I was tired of being broke.

Nathan: So playing music is awesome, but

Nathan: when you when you're doing something that you'd love to do, but it's

Nathan: not creating the life that you want, I was like, I have to make a change. And so, when I saw the real estate and and started to understand it and just, you know,

Nathan: wrap my brain around it at the very beginning, which to be clear, you know, I I

Nathan: didn't really understand that much, but I I was I was bound and determined to figure it out. And so as I could, you know, calculate, okay, what does it look like if I flip a house and I make, you know, $20, which is, you know, a third of what I'm making in a year in one transaction? Like, that's a big deal.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: And so, you know, you extrapolate out

Nathan: what that creates, and and so I was

Nathan: I was just highly motivated by that.

Steve: So you you learned about it. Did you go, like, you know, did you go to an event or did you just read a book and then just got a partner? Like, what was your

Nathan: In the beginning, I really just kinda jumped in and, it did not go very well.

Nathan: So this guy, going through a divorce at the

Nathan: time, which I didn't really realize, and, basically ended up using this bank that was kind of more like a,

Nathan: mob bank than it was, So this is pretty much

Nathan: a disaster. Bought a number of houses. He's

Nathan: he stopped showing up. He was supposed to be the guy that does construction. And so

Nathan: I'm, like, hiring people from, like, the day labor pool and trying to dissolve.

Steve: Which you already understood how to do really well when you were talking to those guys.

Nathan: It's a disaster. It's a complete disaster.

Steve: So, a lot of people that, you know, we've heard is like they'll, they'll go through the semester, not semester, the seminar route. Right. And they'll spend $5.15, 30,000, 60,000. And then they have to undo all that damage financially, you know, when they're getting started and nothing wrong with that. I mean, that's just whatever, that's just something that happens to some people.

So you went down the let's partner up, which other people do, which I generally don't recommend when you're starting. But you went down the partner route. How much do you think that potentially costed you or, or or were you able to measure if I'm going that direction?

Nathan: Well, you know, it cost me quite a bit because I ended up going through bankruptcy in 2009. So and it was, you know, kind of a culmination of

Nathan: of bad decisions and also not having,

Nathan: you know, more money in

Nathan: the bank and some things that I just,

Nathan: you know, all in, all in, all in, all in, and and not really, you know, having the if you start about you go to a seminar, you might you have a lot more tools, which is spend a lot of money doing it. Mhmm.

Steve: But

Nathan: you hope you have a lot more tools.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And, so in that, in that case, I I didn't have all the tools, but

Nathan: I went through, like, the the classic school of hard knocks that's, you know, my education was, was pain.

Steve: Yeah. So if you were able to go back and talk to, you know, Nathan back in 2005, what were two or three bits of advice you would give him?

Nathan: Man, slow down,

Nathan: be more clear in what the outcome is I want from the beginning. Mhmm.

Nathan: And and then I would say,

Nathan: you know, don't lose the the passion to go after it.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: So have a little more education, have more clarity and focus where the where the point of impact is. Mhmm. And because I I bought stuff, you know, that were, you know, flips and I bought stuff that that were, you know, section eight rentals and stuff that, you know, now I would I would never do, but I just didn't know because I didn't have a clear plan of what I actually wanna create. I was just like, real estate. Okay.

Well, can I buy it? Yes. I figured it out.

Steve: So let me ask you this. Right? Because you say slow down. Mhmm. One of the biggest obstacles for most people that get started in this business is that they're going too slow.

Right? And so, like, there needs to be something kicking them in the butt. They need some sort of fire and most people don't have it. And just truthfully, most people just don't have that fire.

Nathan: Right.

Steve: So you've got that fire and you wanna bring it in a little bit.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: But I mean, I I think that you have obviously, you had to declare PK. So those are massive mistakes.

Nathan: Right.

Steve: But more often, I think that you have more success if you go too fast and fix than go too slow Yeah. And have nothing to fix.

Nathan: Yeah. Well, I would say even, like, now in my business, I still have a tendency sometimes to see something and go at it too fast. And just because I get excited and then I, you know, I leave my team behind.

Steve: Mhmm.

Nathan: And, you know, part of the the the purpose of having a team is so that they can, you know, help carry the load and understand what you're trying to create. And so, you know, what I found was, hey, if I slow down a little bit, I have more clarity of what I'm trying to create with it, and then I can go fast because, you know, the the maximum slowest smooth, smoothest fast. We understand it, and then we can create it.

Steve: Where did that saying come from?

Nathan: You know, I, I heard it the first time, I believe, in Jocko Willink's book, Extreme Ownership, or on his podcast. Yeah. But I love the the line.

Steve: Because we're gonna talk about martial arts in a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But that's something I learned from my kung fu instructor. Right?

Slow as smooth as fast. And Mhmm. Right? If you can just learn to do it the right way and then you could do it really well the right way later on. Yeah.

Nathan: And I

Steve: asked him. I was like, you know, he said he heard it from the the military. But, you know, going back to the wish you would have slowed down a little bit, there's a book, Keith Cunningham, The Road Less Stupid. Have you read it?

Nathan: I haven't. No. It's one

Steve: of my favorite business books, so I highly recommend you check it out.

Nathan: Okay. I will.

Steve: But one of the things it talks about in there is, like, if we never made a mistake ever, like, if we run our entire business, like, if you just look back, you started in 2005, you just look back in the last seventeen years

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: And you made zero mistakes, how wealthy would you be today?

Nathan: I would be insanely wealthy.

Steve: Right? Could you could you I mean, you probably are able to retire today, but would you have been able to retire just a little bit sooner?

Nathan: For sure.

Steve: Right?

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: And so that's what he talks about is like, not necessarily stop, but just inflection points. Just take a second, think about it, is this what I wanna do, and then take the massive action.

Nathan: Yeah. Why? And it's

Steve: it's hard for myself to do this thing. It

Nathan: is, and I think that's the thing. When you look at people and, I'm not you know, a lot of a lot of the companies, and, I'm not sure if you guys use it, but, use, you know, various, you know, types of personality profiles or whatever. And, I'm it's escaping me right now, but

Steve: I'm Predictive index.

Nathan: Predictive index. Yep. And I'm a maverick. I I don't know. Are you a maverick?

Steve: Do you I'm an individualist.

Nathan: You're an individualist?

Steve: I don't get along with anybody.

Nathan: That's not true. But thinking about, you know, you have a roomful of these people when you go to a mastermind or you go to whatever, and everybody's getting excited and how how many deals we can do and what are these ideas we can do. And, and what I realized was that just wasn't helping me solve. Mhmm. So but I could understand more now the person my personality and that I would I was in my nature to do that.

Steve: Yeah. So let's talk about that. Right? So because you you've had the opportunity along the way, gain some wisdom, self reflection, understand that you're a maverick

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Which is by default competitive

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: And the best way to motivate you or one of the best ways to inspire you is to show you someone else is doing really well. Yeah. And you're like, I gotta catch that guy.

Nathan: Mhmm.

Steve: So that combined with, go as fast as possible. I mean, what going back to you saying you you wish would've slowed down a little bit, like, can you talk about, like, the the exercises you need to to rein that in?

Nathan: Yeah. For sure. Well, I I've I've really worked in the last couple years on I have a a daily journal practice, daily meditation practice, and then reflection on what it is that I'm trying to create in my life. And I I I laid out in three three columns or three you know, every quarter I look at it, and I do it in business, personal, and professional. And so in the in the business, if it's, you know, this year, we wanna build x number of houses in Kansas City, that means that, hey.

I have to think about, can my team also do, you know, a podcast or do

Steve: Your strength, you realize is also your weakness. Right? Moving fast.

Nathan: 100%.

Steve: And, like, it's interesting because, again, like, I have another friend, you know, he was talking about his pod on an episode, like, he was talking about how he's really happy where he's at right now with balance in his life and so on. Mhmm. And his struggle is to hone things in. Someone was asking me, like, is it because he's complacent? Is it because he's made it?

It's like, no. Like, I know this guy very well. Like, his internal drive is so strong that he actively has to regularly

Nathan: hone in.

Steve: And, like, that's his practice. That's his his meditation, his zen, whatever, is to actively slow himself down. So, you mentioned earlier, you know, you're going all in all in all in. Is that a was that a mental thing or was, like, a financial thing?

Nathan: Well, I think that it was kind of that broke mentality. Mhmm. Is I didn't grow up in a family that had money. We we weren't poor, but we, you know, we didn't have money and didn't have really financial education, not in the way that I I would I try with my kids anyway. And no knock on my parents.

They did the best they can do. Right? But so I'd in the beginning was just, like, I wanna make more money. And I and so I think that I didn't the only regulator was how fast can I buy houses and what is my opportunity and not, you know, what is the cost? What is the potential downside?

Mhmm. And, you know, in, in Money Mastering the Game, the Tony Robbins book, it was interesting because I can't remember which hedge fund, you know, CEO, whatever they're talking about, but he in that book, they talked about the number one thing that they look at is not how much they can make, but how what is the risk compared to, the downside, and how do they protect the downside of that?

Steve: Was it Ray Dalio or Warren Buffett? I think it

Nathan: was it might have been Ray Dalio.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it is because, that is a question I very rarely ask, like, you know, what can go wrong? Yeah. I was like, oh, what can go right?

Oh, what's the upside?

Nathan: I bought a number of houses and did not do an inspection because I did not have the cash to do it. So, for anybody listening, don't do that. And so, you know, there are all kinds of issues. One of them was a section eight, house that the lady was literally moving out the day that I I closed on the house. So I was expecting to have this, you know, built in rent.

And, and also, I hated dealing with Section 8 tenants. Mhmm. And, it's, you know, great for some people, whatever, but, the ones that I had and the properties I bought were not great. And, so, I mean, I just made so many you talk about, like, one one bad decision. There's so many bad decisions in there.

And, but in that case, I I learned it I learned it the hard way.

Steve: Yeah. Well, one of the reasons I was bringing up the the all in thing is that there are so many people that and I I I put myself in this category as well. Right? In early part of our career is we think that we gotta grind, we gotta grind, we gotta hustle. Right?

We gotta put everything in. Like, I can't afford to pay myself right now. Now's not the time to to feed myself, take care of myself, and now's the time to grow the business.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: And, unfortunately, you have that mindset. You will never find a time to pay yourself. And one of the biggest things for me, you know, when when whole thing with COVID struck was as an entrepreneur, like what I was saying to my wife, and no one, I think, at society cared, but what I was saying to my wife is I feel bad for all my fellow entrepreneurs who were saying, like, this is the, you know, one day I'll get paid, one day I'll get paid. I'm gonna sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice, and one day we'll be able to celebrate. And when COVID struck, all those people who were, like, been sacrificing for five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, those dreams are crushed.

Correct. Right? Because they had no savings because they've been grinding

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: For all this time.

Nathan: And then it's a broken mindset, I think. I think that the the grind mentality because it in the end, when you grind something, you destroy it. Mhmm. So, you know, I I like I like to think about it in bursts, just like in martial arts or just like in, in sprinting or whatever. They there's a beginning and an end.

Mhmm. But it's not it's not the the whole motion is not about grindings. Right. You're killing yourself.

Steve: So we haven't talked about your very first deal.

Nathan: Very first deal.

Steve: So what was your very first I mean, did you you partnered with this guy. I imagine you guys did a few deals together before you guys went separate ways.

Nathan: Well, the first day I bought I did my first deal. I bought two. Okay.

Steve: So hit it hard.

Nathan: Hit it hard. Shocking. With this partner, and within, like, a week or two, he stopped showing up. So, like, I would show up at his house, and he'd still be there, but he wouldn't, like, answer the door. So I was trying to manage these two projects that I just bought on.

I have no

Steve: It's like a difficult tenant.

Nathan: Oh, yeah. Worse. Because now I'm in business with it. So, yeah, that it it was it was about the worst possible way it could go. But at the time, they also had, you know, the eighty twenty loans you could get.

Mhmm. And so I,

Steve: You wanna elaborate what that is for everyone that's listening?

Nathan: Yeah. For sure. So you could have, basically, the the first 80% was a regular mortgage, and then they would put in a second mortgage. So, in effect, you had a 100% mortgage. Now the second would typically be a higher interest rate, but, yeah, you could basically buy anything, which which was which was, in my case, not necessarily good.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: But, yeah, it was a disaster, man. Those two deals took forever and,

Steve: and But were they easy to find? Was there any kind of marketing? Did you take anything you learned? Or were you just, like, one MLS is like, alright. I'm buying houses.

Put these two in your contract.

Nathan: He had already known about those two.

Steve: Got it.

Nathan: I didn't do any marketing. I didn't know so the the the homes after that, I did, and bought, like, a group of four or five rental houses that, this guy was selling. And, and those were the section eight ones that were also the disaster. So it was kinda like disaster on the first two and disaster on the next, several as well. So

Steve: So how long did this go on with him?

Nathan: Well, with the partner, eventually, I fired him out of there, but, those houses still you know, I ended up putting, like, renters in them and instead of selling them, and and, it it didn't go it didn't go well. And and I really didn't learn that lesson, honestly, until I was, you know, years later. I still owned those homes, had tried to do, like, seller finance and had there's issues in selling them. And, so I really I mean, I had those up until bankruptcy, and they were a part of that.

Steve: Okay. So did you have to give them back then as part of the We gave

Nathan: them back. Yes. So I followed chapter seven, and I don't remember exactly how many houses there were, but it was about a million dollars value at the time of the that portfolio.

Steve: Did you have any equity when you had to do that?

Nathan: I did. Yeah. I did have equity. But chapter seven, for people who don't know, it's basically you take all your monopoly chips and you put them in. So everything that you have, you Yeah.

Had to put it in.

Steve: So all your assets, all your liabilities, here you go. Everything.

Nathan: Yeah. You have to just put them all in. And, yeah. It's it's scary too. You sit sit in front of a person trustee who's, you know, their sole job is to try to find out any assets that you have or anything that you have, And, and it's terrible.

So don't do that.

Steve: Yeah. So you're, you you got, like, it's like a receiver? Like the trustee?

Nathan: Well, the trustee Yeah. So the trustee works with the court, and basically their responsibility is to look at your case and say, okay, well, anything else that you have? And And I remember at the time too, because I was playing music still, you know, and, I own, you know, a couple of guitars. I'm like, hey, this is still how my I make my living. And, because at the time, I was still doing both of those things.

And, so, you know, just having terror around this, you know, thousand dollar instrument that at the time was, you know, a small fortune for me. So And you

Steve: had to give that up too?

Nathan: I did not, thankfully. I I was able to keep those, but, you know, I just remember, you know, sitting there and and being in a space of like, how did I how did I create this? But what are what are the lessons, like, immediately? What are the lessons I can learn from going through bankruptcy to not ever be here again?

Steve: So would you say that's the bottom of your journey?

Nathan: You know, there's been some tough times. I think hiring I think once you scale, like, beyond yourself, there's there's difficult times, like, if you have hiring and firing. But I would say it was it was like the renaissance to my the creation of what I really wanted.

Steve: Got it. So, for a lot of the people, right, because there's when we're when we're entrepreneurial, like, everything's gonna be perfect. Right? It's gonna be sunshines and butterflies and everything like that. Right?

Nathan: Right.

Steve: But you get punched in the face in this business

Nathan: Regularly.

Steve: A lot. Yep. So what were some of the things that helped you get through it?

Nathan: Well, I think that there's an a combination. You can decide whether you're gonna figure out a solution or not. Mhmm. And all the time, if you're someone who's willing to be thoughtful and creative in how to solve a problem, not like, what am I gonna do, but what are we gonna do to solve the problem? Mhmm.

And it's a subtle, you know, thought process difference, but you give yourself the opportunity. Well, Chris Voss, right, we we know with with Chris Voss and his awesome book, Never Split the Difference, like, you give the opportunity to even ask it as a question, like, what are we gonna do about it? Right. And and so I think it's it's one of those things if you if you make the decision that you can solve a problem, you can. And then the second thing is is having a positive mental attitude and being able to work through a problem because when we get in an emotional state, we're not in a powerful state.

Yeah. And so if we continually go to an emotional state, we're losing we're we're taking our power away.

Steve: Yeah. I think, Tony Robbins has a a segment on this. I wanna say it was like personal power too, one of those, you know, something I recommend for everyone if you guys haven't checked it out. It's thirty days of of of mental exercises. But, you know, if you stop asking why is this happening to me to how am I gonna get myself out of this

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: Two questions that give you totally different outcomes.

Nathan: And answers. Yeah. Yeah. And and how beautiful is that when you all of a sudden you realize the question that you're asking is is it producing the result that you want?

Steve: Right.

Nathan: Or could can it does it have the capacity to give you the the results that you

Steve: want? Exactly. Alright. So, were there any other things that you had an opportunity to figure out, like, how'd you got your how'd you got yourself in the situation? Were there any other lessons there for people that are listening?

Yeah.

Nathan: There's a lot of lessons. You know, I think, was the focus on what I what I wanted to do, what I wanna create.

Steve: Alright. So clarity of purpose.

Nathan: Clarity of purpose, for sure. Having more actual liquidity as I approach deals. And I know, you know, a lot of people, if you're just starting out, like, well, I don't have any money. Well, just thinking about what that pacing looks like and what does it actually cost you as you have this mortgage and, you know, have a couple months of of liquidity to pay for that. Mhmm.

And I I'll give an example too. I have a buddy of mine, Dan, who I was on a hunting trip with, beginning of I think it was last year, and he wanted to do real estate, and he was fired up. And, he's he was looking at some building to buy, and I started asking him a series of questions. And he said, you know, come to find out, not only did he not really have any liquidity, but he was, you know, $25 in the hole on a credit card. And I was like, dude, you can't do that.

Like, don't do that. This is this is bad news. But he wanted it, and so in eleven months, he not only paid off that credit card making $55 a year in his job because he kept taking side jobs and and they hustled, but they paid off their car and they're on a totally different trajectory. Yeah. It's like, how bad do you want it?

So write it out. How bad do you want it? What is it that this creates for you? And so I wanted it bad. And I was like, we're gonna figure this out and we're gonna make it about, this being a part of the life that actually creates what we want and not just,

Steve: you know, a job. Now that you created a clarity of purpose, what was that purpose?

Nathan: Yes. So the purpose for me was to have fun doing what I like, what I love in my life, and if it and, if it is not something that is really awesome and exciting for me personally, I'm not doing it.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: So if that's in in my personal life, whether it's playing music or doing crazy stuff or hunting, or, you know, spending time with my family too, where if you're spending every day, all day working, you're not spending the time. Yeah. And so I wanted to have a fulfilled life in all of those categories personally, professionally, and in in my family too.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's a great exercise. I mean, I think for everyone who's listening, like, so many people say I wanna do some this many houses a month. I wanna make this much revenue per year, this and that. And I think all that is great Mhmm.

But it's not purposeful. No. And it doesn't get you out of bed. Right? Like, when things are bad, it's like, oh, I wanna go buy two more houses.

Right? It's but I think going through the exercise. Right? If I can buy as many houses or I can make this much money per month or per year, it's like, okay, what can I do with that? Yeah.

Why do why is that so important once you figure out the purpose?

Nathan: Yeah. Well, and you can almost invert those two also. Right? When you could say, well, hey, I I actually wanna spend more time hanging out with my kids or, you know, traveling, and how much money do I really need to make to create that?

Steve: Mhmm.

Nathan: And a lot of times, I think we we still trade time for dollars. We just trade time for more dollars.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: And so ultimately, are you really are you really wanting to trade that with your life? And, so for me, it was it was a definite no. But, you know, as you go on that entrepreneur's journey, it's easy to get sucked back into that. And he's like, oh, well, I made a $100 in a day, or I, you know, flipped 700 houses, which sounds awesome. But, you know, you can still lose what it is that you really, want to do, and and that can change over time too if you're not purposeful with spending that time in meditation and journaling and coming back to that question.

Steve: Yeah. So what was the first thing, first step you took in getting out of that hole you were in? Right. You just finished, you just filed BK, you're at the bottom or worse. Yeah.

What was the first thing you did to get yourself out of that hole? I

Nathan: just spent time reading and looking and and learning. Mhmm. How can I do a better job of going into this? And I also sought out for the first time really a mentor. His name's Rob, who's still crushing it in South Florida right now.

He's not really on the map. You know, he's not out there in social media blowing it up, but he he owned he was kind of the the the guy that first laid it out for me. And so it's a couple years later, and I'd still been reading and still been, you know, thinking about real estate, but I harassed him to finally go to lunch. And I remember, like, well, I mean, I'm offering you pay pay for lunch. Like, why don't you I could barely, you know, think about paying for a $20 meal, let alone, but, I didn't really understand it at at the time.

Mhmm. I certainly appreciated that now. But, finally got him to go to lunch, and he, for the first time, laid out, like, this is my brokerage, and this is my property management business, and this is my rental portfolio, and this is how we lend money out of my IRA. And it was like it was the the epiphany moment where I could see for the first time what a real business looked like.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: And, and he was also the first lender on my very first post bankruptcy house, which I literally just sold, like, a month or two ago, 5005 Harmony. And that house, it was like I just distinctly remember finally like, I I now understood better how to underwrite a deal, how to walk it with a contractor. I had an inspector that I I worked with on every house. And all of a sudden, I started to have a method to the to that, not just like, oh, there's a house I can buy it. What is the method in which we approach, and what area are we buying, and what does the buy box look like?

And creating now a formula to have success with it.

Steve: Yeah. So finding a mentor before jumping into the next house.

Nathan: Yep.

Steve: Yeah. And it it it's funny, right? Because when you first started, right, going back to 2005, someone said, Nathan, you can't buy anything to have a mentor. What would 2005 version of Nathan said?

Nathan: I mean, he would have thought that was crazy.

Steve: And that was me. Right? Like, I mean, I remember when I first went to a REIA event. True. '2 I can't remember if it was 2007 or 2008.

And, you know, cocky, little little me. I'd walk around. I was like, you know, what's this guy? 18% interest. Like, that's stupid.

Why would anyone ever pay that? Right?

Nathan: Right.

Steve: And this whole recession thing happened. And I I I was kicking myself in the butt because, like, I see all this opportunity

Nathan: Mhmm.

Steve: But I couldn't take advantage of it. Right? Like, I if I had bought all those properties, man, who knows where I would be? Yeah.

Nathan: But the

Steve: answer was right in front of me. It was go get money at 18%. Right? You will literally cash flow if you borrow at 18%, right, at that time. But because I didn't have a mentor, because I was wanting to do it on my own, and I didn't want to listen to anybody else.

I saved myself money, but what did I cost myself in saving that money?

Nathan: It's it's hard to know. Right? And and when I look back at that decision to to do that, you know, I think part of part of the lesson and part of the ex was just the experience of doing it. Mhmm. You know?

And and also the recognition that the more deals I've done over my life, the more things I realize what I like doing too.

Steve: Yeah. And

Nathan: and when I'm not lined up in alignment with what I like doing, then I don't often do a great job. Yeah. But when I'm lined up with what I love doing, I do an awesome job because it's not work. You know, it's Right.

Steve: It's

Nathan: fun. Well, it might be work, but I like doing it.

Steve: Doesn't feel like work.

Nathan: It doesn't feel like work.

Steve: Alright. So you got a mentor, and now you just have a process. Yes. Did you still move pretty fast after you had the process? Or, I mean, what what were some of the steps

Nathan: to There were still hiccups. You know, I I had one in particular that I remember. I had been a guest on the Bigger Pockets podcast. I got lucky, I guess, that I'd done, I don't know, maybe 20 or 30 deals at that point. And, so I started all of a sudden having this influx of opportunity to have partners.

And, there was one deal in particular. It was it was a big house, big flip, big opportunity to make, like, you know, a $100 in this house, and and, basically everything that could go wrong, you know, still went wrong. So, you know, contractor quit, and then they take forever. We found, you know, it's this two story, 3,000 square foot house, and all the whole back of the house has to, like, come off and cedar shake. Super expensive.

And, so we have we just have issue after issue and, end up in a lawsuit with this, you know, person that I would I had JV partnered on it. It was just a disaster.

Steve: Yeah. And

Nathan: so, you know, I still had to learn what does it look like for Nathan to be a partner in deals and also, like, what kind of house should I have really bought that house? And I think as people are are listening, you know, as you as you go for, you know, hey. I'm gonna do one house and do five houses and, you know, you wanna scale. Well, scaling still you don't do scaling at the at the cost of of the of deals that you don't understand. Yeah.

And, that was a huge lesson for me in that.

Steve: What would, I guess at this time, you're flipping houses. Right?

Nathan: Yeah. We're flipping some and

Steve: So as

Nathan: well as keeping rentals.

Steve: When did you get to a point where you're flipping a lot of houses?

Nathan: So in 2000 and, '15, again, thanks to the Bigger Pockets podcast, I had, my partner, who is still my partner to this day, David, send me a message. They flew out, and we actually, we just sold the house, the first house that we we bought together as well. Mhmm. But we met and and hung out and just had this, you know, incredible connection. And so we started buying houses as a partnership, and I hundred hundred and fifty houses a year.

Steve: So if I wanted to, you know, get in and start flipping at scale

Nathan: Mhmm. Well, I

Steve: guess, let's talk about let's start flipping, and then we'll talk about flipping at scale.

Nathan: Right.

Steve: So what are what's the first two or three things I need to do if I wanna start flipping the way that you were flipping houses?

Nathan: Yeah. So I think in our situation is understanding what that whole pipeline looks like. And there's there's two different things. There's the leadership management of that, at scale, and then there's the actual process of it. And so, you know, understanding who you are as a leader, what your roles and responsibilities are, and then whoever you have on your team Mhmm.

What their roles and responsibilities are. So it comes to, like, okay. In acquisitions, this is the kinda house that we buy. So we had to make it clear for our team, in order to buy 150 houses, you know, how many offers do we have to make? What kinda house do we buy?

And and then run through the whole process of saying, okay. Now we hand it off to construction. We have a a same set of stuff that we do in every house. These these are the designs, and, these are the colors. These are the palettes.

And, and make each one of those things as simple as possible. Mhmm. Because, you know, you can't have a bunch of other people who are doing stuff around you if they don't understand and you haven't created a process for what that looks like.

Steve: Yeah. And

Nathan: I think a lot of entrepreneurs have have a hard time with that. Like the whole E Myth book. Right? Michael Gerber talks about that, linked in that book.

Steve: So you're saying that before we start scaling in volume and doing a lot of houses, we need to have a built out process map, really.

Nathan: Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve: Right? And and that's, I know that's one of the hardest things, especially as an entrepreneur, to do. Because, again, we're talking about most entrepreneurs, the challenge is not, do something. Right? If they've had any kind of success, the biggest challenge is getting them to slow down.

Nathan: Yep. So And for why. And the why behind it. Yeah. And that's where, you know, I think for a a long time I had trouble because I couldn't see why.

Mhmm. And and also giving the people around you, the the openness to give you feedback Yeah. And to say like, hey, dude. We're going too fast. Like, we can't keep buying houses.

I I remember a phone call at one point. David and my partner were like, we own 70 houses, but we were you know, our capacity was really, say, 30 or 40 in the system at one time, and just all of a sudden we have that many. And so even you know, you have these checks and balances as you as you go, and flipping five houses at a time is totally different than ten and twenty. And so all those things have different different break points.

Steve: Yeah. But I I can imagine, even for me, right, like, someone saying, hey. You need to slow down and process map this. I was like, what the hell are you talking about?

Nathan: No way. What do you want me to do? Yeah.

Steve: But What

Nathan: what we do is we buy the house, Steve, and then we flip it and then we sell it.

Steve: Yeah. Like, what else do you what else do you

Nathan: need? Right?

Steve: But when you have an organization Mhmm. Right, where you have people especially, I think one of the best ways to sell this to an entrepreneur is like, look, do you want people calling you every time they need something or do you want them to not call you?

Nathan: Correct.

Steve: Right? And so you're talking about having a process, like, does this fit in our buy box? How do we know if it fits in our buy box? Yep. Like, all these, processes, check boxes, procedures, and it's irritating as all this can be as an entrepreneur to sit down and draw it out.

Nathan: It is. Yeah.

Steve: But time it saves you and how happy your team is.

Nathan: A 100%. Well, and most people are not wired like that.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: And so the people who are not wired like that, they don't operate with, oh, Nathan just said go buy some more houses. They're like, well, what houses and at what price point? And so, you know, you do those things once, and and then you also have to say, alright. Well, what is the training process for this too? So you can't just write write it out and process map it.

It might be clear in your head Mhmm. But it's not clear to your team. Right.

Steve: And

Nathan: so they have to understand. And then also have somebody that you can hand it off to that likes process, because those people I don't know why, but but those people exist out there. Yeah. And, so have somebody that is awesome at it and likes to run a process.

Steve: Yeah. So you're mentioning, you know, a person. Right? So Mhmm. Dan Sullivan published a book recently, Who, Not How?

Nathan: Such a great book.

Steve: Yeah. So who are the people you need within your organization to run a bigger flipping business?

Nathan: Yeah. So, kinda to that same point of seeing the process, seeing understanding what that looks like, I have I know a lot of variations of this, and a lot of our friends, you know, have variations of this business. But, you know, when you think about you have the acquisition side, and whether you have marketing like you guys do or you know, we we never really had a wholesale business. Mhmm. We never bought stuff off market.

So we we bought all those houses, pretty much all, you know, from MLS and wholesalers. So you don't have to have that. It's awesome to have that.

Steve: Mhmm.

Nathan: But, something in acquisitions, and then we we had, in our construction division, we had project management, we had estimator on staff, and a construction manager. And then, we have transactions, so you have to have somebody that's, you know, managing the those inflow of of contracts and and information. And I don't know what you guys use, but, you know, we we built our system out on Podio, so you also just have something that actually tracks all that data. And, and then the sales and marketing, so what what does the exit of those homes look like? And whether you're selling it to flip it or, you know, you're selling it on on MLS or investor buyers are buying it as a rental.

Mhmm. So, you know, understanding each of those steps and then all the people that that touch. And remember that, you know, you might have something on the back end and, like, well, hey, wait. Were you buying this to sell it on MLS? Are we buying this?

So they they need to interact with construction to know that we have the right designs and we have the right, outcome. So there's a lot of moving pieces as you start to scale that.

Steve: So one thing you said that I have not heard anyone else say is you need an estimator. What is an estimator?

Nathan: So on our team, we had an estimator. So they would work really more, in between where acquisitions and construction was. So, once we would have the the, you know, property under contract, we'd send the estimator out. So he he was very familiar with the project, but he wasn't just the acquisition guys who was, like, you know, trying to ballpark a number. He would go in and actually build a whole scope out.

And so from day one, by the time we would close on that house, we'd have a full blown, complete scope of work. Mhmm. And everything's already laid out and ready to rock so that by the time we closed on that house, you know, we're looking at every day that that cost of money as that as you're holding that asset, so we would already be ready to go. So they would hand that off to the project manager.

Steve: Got it. So, you mentioned earlier the importance of leadership. Right? Mhmm. And I think leadership is one of the most important, if not the most important skill that we have as business owner.

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: But you mentioned it earlier as far as, like, building out a flipping organization. Right? Most people leadership is a skill that they acquire later on after they screw things up. Mhmm. So you're saying they need to work on that earlier?

Or

Nathan: A 100%.

Steve: Okay. So expand on that.

Nathan: Yeah. So it leadership, you know, I is one of those things that I I think it is greatly underappreciated and and incredibly complex and difficult. And, in business, I think leadership and the management and, leading of people is by far the hardest thing. Yeah. Buying houses is not hard.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And I always say don't make money.

Steve: It's hard initially.

Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Steve: But once you figure it out. Yeah. It's autopilot.

Nathan: It's autopilot. Yeah. And and most of the time, I think people make money their problem. And I I my my maxim's always been, you know, don't make money your problem. Make your problem your problem.

Mhmm. What is the actual problem? But, you know, for leadership, you know, it's one thing to tell someone to do something. That's not leadership.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: You know, we have to

Steve: It's management.

Nathan: Yes. Could be.

Steve: It's management. It's not leadership.

Nathan: Yeah. And and even in management, you know, I think of holding accountability too. Like, what what is the accountability structure for that? But in leadership, you know, if you don't know who you you are, it's very hard to lead other people. Mhmm.

And so I think it's not only it's a self exploration of who you are and what you wanna create, but then also helping other people do that in their own autonomy, in their own space. Yeah. And, and you know, understanding what your style is, and not everybody's the same. But like in our business, we wanted to have, you know, people who have a lot of autonomy, they have a lot of space to operate, and that takes a lot of time, a lot of training, and a lot of building of trust and coordination of what you're doing. And so, you know, these things take time.

It's not just a process. Right? Because process is not leadership. That's management. Leadership is is the building of relationship.

Steve: Yeah. And, you know, John Maxwell says the hardest person to lead is yourself.

Nathan: Is yourself.

Steve: Right. So you gotta lead yourself before you can lead others.

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: And we haven't earned that privilege or the right to lead others till we've learned how to lead ourselves.

Nathan: A 100%.

Steve: So what did you do to get better at leadership?

Nathan: You know, I am an obsessive person. And, so once I discover something, I have to fix it. And, and so for me, you know, it's been just constant reading, constant learning, joining masterminds, having, you know, quality conversations with people, doing podcasts, how do we learn? And then understanding like, okay, well this thing failed, but why did it fail? Mhmm.

And having a heart for for learning. And and then also, you know, I think a lot of times leaders have a hard time admitting they're wrong. And, you know, when we screw up I remember there's such a great story in in Extreme Ownership, Jocko Willink's book where he they have a blue on blue incident, which means, you know, the same side shooting at each other.

Steve: Friendly fire.

Nathan: Friendly fire. And, you know, they he asks who's responsible, and, you know, all the guys are saying, hey. It was me. I I screwed it up, or I did this or that. And he's like, no.

It's my fault. I'm the leader, and it's my fault. And I think when you can take ownership, you you build trust, and building trust creates opportunity to grow in that. And, and so as leaders, we have to be we have to be, not only willing to talk, but we have to do a lot more listening Mhmm. And a lot more learning.

And, and so and there's so many great ways now and resources to do that between books and podcasts and, you know, mentorship, masterminds, whatever.

Steve: So I know you're a big Jocko fan.

Nathan: Huge Jocko fan.

Steve: I am as well. My partner, Max, is a huge he's a big Jocko fanboy. So then I've been saying for a long time. Right? Like, John Maxwell is the guy's leadership.

Put you on the spot here. Okay. Who's the guy for leadership? Is it Jocko or is it I

Nathan: like them both a lot. So I'm gonna give you a non answer, which is, I don't believe that either of them are the one. And, because I think that, you know, Jocko can be pretty aggressive, default aggressive, right, all the time. But and when you listen to him on a podcast, like, sometimes you can tell, like, that dude's pretty intense when

Steve: He will rip your heart out.

Nathan: He will rip your heart out. Yeah. And then, you know, when you you go, you know, read like a Dan Sullivan book, like Who Not How and I the, something The Gap, which The

Steve: Gap and the Gain.

Nathan: The Gap and the Gain. You know, Dan Sullivan's name is first in the book, but he didn't write them. You know what I mean? Yeah. They're beautiful books and they talk, you know, in a very different way about about leadership.

And so I don't think there's just one answer. I think that the answer is you are constantly learning about leadership, which means you're constantly learn learning about yourself, you're constantly challenging yourself as a leader, and you're constantly checking is it what we're what's coming out of my mouth, what we're doing in the business, congruent with the thing that I am trying to create.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's the key. Right? Congruence.

Nathan: Yeah. And the people who are on my team, the people who are around me, when they see me and this is the biggest thing. I've I've started to get this a lot more lately, which somebody will say to me, Nathan, I love that you are spending time with your kids, and I get to see you out fishing or hunting or whatever. Or somebody in the business like, hey, thanks for giving me the opportunity to work on this project. I'm like, that was leadership.

Mhmm. Because I it wasn't even about me, and it's not about you Yeah. As a leader. It's about you making it clear what what can happen, what you want to have happen, and then giving that space

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: For people to do it. And

Steve: you mentioned masterminds. So we connected through Collective Genius.

Nathan: Yep.

Steve: And it was through Collective Genius that I heard about the Way of the Warriors series.

Nathan: Oh, yeah. So Alright.

Steve: So I have my kids go through it. They don't love me for it.

Nathan: They don't?

Steve: So they don't love you for it either.

Nathan: Oh, sorry about that. That's so good.

Steve: I I made a read it. Right? So they've gone through it. But, you know, I think that, again, the the connections, right, and the the connections we make, we get to also share it Yeah. With our family.

Our family gets the benefit as well.

Nathan: Absolutely.

Steve: So, we talked about how to flip 700 houses in seven years

Nathan: Mhmm.

Steve: But you are now going in a different direction.

Nathan: Yep.

Steve: So what's the different direction?

Nathan: Yep. So, you know, there's a lot that goes into buying and flipping houses, and I and you and I both know lots of people who are who are very successful. Mhmm. And I think in in the spirit of what we've been talking about and clarity of focus and whatever, I really was getting burned out on doing that many. And, and especially in the rehab side, where you you get into stuff and you don't know what it is, you open up walls and you have issues.

And so we've made a transition in our business really strictly into new construction and development now. And so we we chose to make some really hard decisions about four or five months ago and and basically let go of half our staff Mhmm. In our business to to put a sole focus on new construction and development. And, and we knew that was the right call because, you know, for for months, maybe even a year, we'd kind of fantasized almost about like, man, can you imagine if we were only building houses? And, and so we just time and time again, I was like, alright.

This is the thing, that we wanna do. I'm passionate about it. I'm excited about it, and it is, you know, infinitely scalable. And so, that's that's the new direction.

Steve: Got it. Yeah, guys. I'm not seeing any questions in here. So if you have any questions, please, post it here. And if you guys need any help with your business at all, send me a message on Instagram, and we'll connect you with someone on our team to answer whatever questions you guys have.

So, what was interesting is we sent you a deal. We sold you a deal. Yeah. Right. And, you know, we tried Kansas City for, I wanna say, like, all three weeks.

I was like, ah, this place sucks. We're outtie. Right? And a month later, it's like, hey. We wanna sell our house.

It's like, oh, okay. Great. So we send it to you.

Nathan: Right.

Steve: And so Reuben on my team was working with you.

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: And you wanna share that conversation you had with him? Because it was it was kind of a when you shared with me, I thought that was kinda funny.

Nathan: Well, I you might remember more details than I remember, but, yeah, I just remember him him calling me. And, you know, you you are a great sales trainer. Your team is, incredibly well well well trained and well versed in that. And I I distinctly remember him using some, some of the tactics and the Chris Voss, you know, never split the, never split the difference, when mirroring and and, some other tactics.

Steve: Yeah. So what what Ruben told me is, like, you guys are having a negotiation.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Right? We were 5,000 apart. We wanted one number. He wanted, we wanted one number. You wanted to pay a different price.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And you guys are negotiating. And he said, can I you said to him, can I take a time out here? He's like, what's going on? He's like and you basically said more or less, I want to just take a moment to just recognize how well of a job you're doing right now in negotiating with me.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Alright. Let's go back to negotiating.

Nathan: That sounds like something I would say. Yeah. Well, when I when I hear those things, because I'm aware of it enough now. You know, it's a subconscious thing in negotiation or whatever, but, when you hear those things, like, what would it take to or it seems like, Steve, you, you know, maybe you don't wanna get this deal done. And, and so it was it was a cool moment Yeah.

In celebration of of obviously his skills and and the learning he has from you and your team.

Steve: Well, and and and the reason why I remember this, because you and I were talking, and I was like, you know, do you prefer to go by Nathan or Nate?

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: And he said, Nathan. And I was like, when I when I heard it, I said, okay. There was enough emotion there.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: So I I I just kinda came back and said, sounds like there's a story there. And then instead of going to the story, which is normal

Nathan: Right.

Steve: He said, wait a minute. You just labeled me. So I love that. That that demonstrates that, a, you've trained in in this yourself in this so much that you can recognize it. Mhmm.

And then, b, I'm doing this so much I didn't even realize it.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And I remember I was actually at a restaurant in in Tampa, and there was we ordered we were with Chris, me, Paige, Jamil, and some other guys, and the server said, you know, like, here's the dessert that comes with the meal. Right? And I asked him, oh, how do you like that? He said, it's good.

Right? And I did the same exact thing. It's just it's on autopilot now.

Nathan: Of course.

Steve: It's like Good? Yeah. Sounds like you wanna tell me more about that. And he's like, well, it's not my affair. And he goes into saying, I was like, well, then give me whatever you would think is the best.

Like Yeah. Don't give me whatever you think is is just cause it comes with the the meal. Like, don't give

Nathan: me what that Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Give me what is is is the best thing you have here.

Nathan: And you know what's beautiful about that? Is that by the byproduct of that is also better communication Mhmm. And better understanding. Yeah. So, you know, when something's not working, you can come back to yourself and say, well, what is the question I'm asking?

Steve: Mhmm.

Nathan: And, and it was the quality of your question.

Steve: Yeah. Well, immediately I was like, oh, man. Why can't we turn this thing off? And, and Pace and Jamil obviously had a good laugh at my expense, which is fine. It's great.

Nathan: You know what though? I I love it because it's so useful. And and for people who struggle with this, by the way, a great place to practice is at the grocery store.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: I love nothing more than trying to get a discount on like the bread that I have and the I'll just say, what does it take today? I don't have my son. Like, do you have a two good looking guy discount today? What is it gonna take to get a little deal on this? You will never send them again.

Mhmm. It doesn't matter. There's nothing on the line.

Steve: Low risk.

Nathan: Low risk. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So No. I appreciate that. So on IG, someone was asking, what was the hardest challenge that you faced when you began flipping?

Nathan: Well, I think early on, the hardest challenge was was understanding the as we would hire people, that it was the hiring and training of people. Because it's one thing for me to go and buy that house. I could walk it. I could price it. I could understand it.

I can negotiate all those things. But as you scale, you cannot do all those things. At least you can't do them well. And so it was it was the transition of going from doer to, you know, manager or leader of. And so I'd say as people are thinking about, you know, scaling something, you it it comes back to that process And to be able to say, alright, this is Actually, our our coach Gary Harper.

Right? He So he'd say, there's three steps. It's I'll show you. Let's do it together and then you show me. Mhmm.

And and for people when, you know, you take your time do that to do that and don't expect the person to be able to, you know, do it in six six weeks. Right? It's gonna take time and, and so you you give them small pieces, give them a little more autonomy, give them small pieces. And and, so the the time is so well spent on the front end for the the, produces the result that you want on the back end.

Steve: Yeah. One thing, I've seen you play around with is crypto.

Nathan: Yes. It's a

Steve: little different than real estate.

Nathan: Yes. It is. For sure.

Steve: What prompted you to get into crypto?

Nathan: Well, you know, if I maybe mentioned earlier, I I obsess. So if it gets on something that I'm like, man, I I can't quite wrap my brain around and to be clear, I have not a 100% wrapped my brain around crypto binding me stretch of the imagination. But, I believe it to be something that is it's gonna be when it is world changing. Mhmm. It is, you know, dynastic changing, like, in in the in the world as far as, you know, countries and, who creates what, and do they have an ecosystem?

And also when you look at look at from a very practical perspective of, you know, you can't keep printing money and have an inflationary market like that.

Steve: It's transitory. It's

Nathan: fine. Without having other issues. And also just from I

Steve: mean, in history the whole time is you've always been able to print money to solve a problem.

Nathan: It's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You can print money, and it does solve a problem. That is true. For a

Steve: very short period of time.

Nathan: For a very short period of time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you when you, no longer have it, as the, you know, against gold and Mhmm.

And, the the value is just the value. But in any case and and then also just, you know, from from a thing that is is interesting. Mhmm. And so, you know, I've been obsessing about it for for some time, but I Yeah. I made some very specific goals this year around crypto and and learning and investing.

Steve: You feel comfortable sharing those goals? Yeah.

Nathan: A 100%. So I I I wanted to go from the place of being, like, the guy that buys a a coin on Coinbase or something like that to someone who is is an investor and, on the on the front end of those things. Mhmm. And so I finally met and connected with somebody who has helped me, incredibly to learn. And and so, you know, I made a goal of making a million dollars this year just in crypto.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And, and so and just, for accountability's sake, I have I've made, almost, like, I think 50 or $60 in the last two weeks in Nice.

Steve: Yeah. So While it's been going down. Correct. That's pretty good.

Nathan: And there's there's just a lot of different things you can invest in. Right. And so, you know, I've just been spending a lot of time, and, I am I'm definitely the dumbest person in the, you know, various Telegram channels that are, you know, like 200 and 72 18 year old nerds and then me. Yeah. And, but I'm down.

And so I, again, I'm I'm I'm humble enough to ask questions, and I'm I'm not afraid to to take action. But now, you know, as a port a part of my my net worth and a part of my portfolio, now I can I can take a, you know, $50,000 gamble, a a $100,000 gamble, and and it's okay? Yeah. And and so it's it's been well worth that.

Steve: So I'm getting into it now. Like, I bought a bunch of crypto last year. Right? And I did absolutely nothing with it, you know? But, I mean, this NFT thing is freaking on fire right now.

Nathan: On fire. Yes.

Steve: And I do think that we're at a pivotal point in, I mean, in our history.

Nathan: Absolutely.

Steve: Right? And so there's two things I wanna do, but I could get buy in. Right?

Nathan: Okay.

Steve: So I got five younger brothers that are software developers.

Nathan: Oh my gosh. Right?

Steve: I was like, well, guys, we should be, you know

Nathan: A 100%.

Steve: Working together to be creating NFTs. I've been in group text with them. Maybe I just need to hound them down and lock them in a room or whatever. But they're, like, they're not interested. Like, there's this crazy opportunity for us right now.

Like, we can do, like, the train gang or train brothers, whatever. Like, we could do something and, with zero interest. And then

Nathan: but the

Steve: other thing, I was thinking about this last night, is I think it'd be pretty cool as a as a family project. Right? Like, I was thinking, you know, we could, have my daughters just start instead of Minecraft and Roblox,

Nathan: I think

Steve: is what it's called, we're gonna I was like, I will fund them playing in Decentraland.

Nathan: Oh, love that.

Steve: Right? And then I'm thinking, like, this could be a whole new YouTube channel. Right? Yeah. Just these kids, 10 to nine years old, playing on Decentraland and uploading YouTube, and who knows where this goes?

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: But we're monetizing it. They're learning about crypto. They're learning about,

Nathan: Investing in your life.

Steve: Investing. Yeah. Right? Running a business, entrepreneurship, like

Nathan: So my 11 year old son, his name is Colin, and I wore this Montana angler hat, by the way, and he really did not want me to leave. But, and if you hadn't caught yet, we we spent a lot of time fishing together. But, he is an obsessed little entrepreneur himself Yeah. And not that little really anymore. But, so actually this week, I opened his first wallet, and he put a $100 in.

I put a $100 in. And, and so he now is the proud owner of an NFT. He's the proud owner of, you know, some crypto as well. And, so a 100%. And and as we see this unfold, we're gonna realize that, you know, if you did not learn it, if you did not get into it, you will be left behind.

And there'll be a lot of people that make a lot of money. And, and also, you know, it I don't know how far into the crypto thing you wanna go, but

Steve: I mean, there's not enough questions here.

Nathan: That I think, you know, from an NFT perspective, it's interesting because there are some that have utility and Mhmm. And there's some that are just, you know, pretty artwork. And, so when you look at also the projects, right, what what are the projects that are actually creating value? And, and so that's where I think it's hard for people when you start to look at it because you don't really understand, like, what does this coin do? Mhmm.

What does this NFT thing do? And so, you know, starting to understand where does that value in crypto actually happen? Yeah. And what problems are people actually solving with block blockchain technology and and, and in the real estate world. Right?

So, like, transfer of ownership or clear title or

Steve: Yeah. You know,

Nathan: there there's so many things or even like an NFT of a house. Like, how how does that how can you create value where, maybe there's not something that is right now?

Steve: Yeah. I'm actively investigating how we can use, blockchain and and title. Alright. So, fix Findex Native, what purse what advice would you give a young person who wants to get into real estate today?

Nathan: I would say that, no matter what it is, like, no matter how old you are or what story you're telling yourself, you actually start with what that is first Mhmm. Which is I can be successful. This is what I wanna create. And start with literally what it is that you wanna create because I think when you look at people right now, and you think about COVID and and all the things that people have gone through, how many people are still like, deaths and and serious health issues are caused right now a lot by issues of despair, like, and and mental health and alcohol and all these things. And people, no matter where they are in their in their life, they have not necessarily created what it is that they wanted to.

Mhmm. Which is why they're upset. Right? And so when you start your business and you start what it is that you're creating, start with what you want it to actually look like. Yeah.

And I think most people don't think about it. And how much money do you wanna make? And of course, in five years or two years or whatever, it might be different, and that's totally cool. But what do you actually wanna do? And and I think so many people spend so much time thinking about making money.

Mhmm. It's just one thing. Yeah. Instead of like, what do I want my life to look like and actually have joy in what I do?

Steve: So clarity of purpose, you know, which is something we said earlier.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: And I I don't know about a 100% agree, you know? Okay. I think I think that clarity of purpose is absolutely critical because once you make enough money, then there's no excitement. Right? Like Sure.

There's enough money in the bank account. Like, why are you getting up? Why are you making that extra call that you didn't wanna make?

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Right? I think that there's there's an element of survivorship. Right? Like, you know, you gotta get past the survival point.

Nathan: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Because survival is a purpose. It's not clear. Right? Sure.

But it's it's instinctive.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Right?

Nathan: But I I would say, you know, and I I I love the disagreement. I think in this case, if, you know, like to use my my life as an example, if I would've had more clear purpose, it doesn't mean don't take more act don't take the same action. It just means take action in the clear. Right? So I I shot a rifle at a thousand yards and had to target an 11 inch group, which would, you know, make me qualify for sniper school.

Right?

Steve: So So don't piss off, Nathan.

Nathan: You pull the trigger on something and the movement of your hand adjusts the the the, you know, dynamic of the barrel, right, and at a short distance, doesn't make much difference. But at a thousand yards, that bullet drops forty, fifty feet. And if we think about more clearly what our target is just a little bit further, I feel like we can make such a dynamic difference in the outcome. So it's not that I don't believe that we shouldn't take action, because that would be my very next step is get off your butt and do something Mhmm. And don't be afraid to work.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: But, in in in our our vision of what we want changes, and so it's not like you have to have it right. Right. Just make it clear enough why you're doing it.

Steve: It. Yeah. And and I think, you know, the clarity of purpose, I think is incredibly powerful and it's like your North Star.

Nathan: Is a North Star. Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, okay, like, is what I'm doing today getting me closer Yeah. To the direction or is it just a distraction?

Nathan: Yeah. And then I would also say pick a niche because Mhmm. Everybody see like Steve has all these businesses, Nathan has all these businesses. Great. Have all the businesses you want.

And this is again, you know, Gary Harper, who's a friend of ours and, you know, business coach.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: But you have to have one that operates without you Mhmm. To go get the next one. Yeah. And so, you know, it does and it doesn't have to be complex. And the the older I get and the more in the business I I am, the more I love simplicity.

I want it to be simple. Because then your team understands what we're doing, you understand what you're doing, and it's very clear what you're saying yes to and what you're saying no to.

Steve: Right. Let's see. We have, so RE Investor wants to know, are you in any masterminds right now?

Nathan: I am not currently in any masterminds. I still have a lot of individual relationships. Mhmm. But we were in Collective Genius, I think, for five years or so, and, just decided to take a break. But, actually, well, I have, like, a group of guys to get together.

There's Mhmm. There's some real estate guys in KC, so, I mean, we we definitely mastermind and regularly look at deals, just a group of people, but it's not a paid, you know, thing.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: But, a a mastermind is an awesome thing, and I'm I definitely appreciate it as much for the the the learning as I do for the the network and networking and and, so they're awesome.

Steve: Yep. And I think, you know, masterminds, I've avoided them for so long. Like, I I'm in multiple. Right? But, like, when when when they reach out to me in CG and, you know, say, hey.

When did you join a collective? I was like, no. I'm good. You know? Like, I don't wanna take any more time away from my family, which is one of the biggest challenges.

Nathan: Yes. For sure.

Steve: In a mastermind, it's like you're constantly traveling away from family.

Nathan: Yep. But it

Steve: was the best decision I ever made was joining CG even though I I rebuffed them multiple times. Joining it was the best thing I ever did.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: So, yeah, I think I'm with you on there, the the the importance, of of masterminds. Yeah. So, let's talk about, like, the family component. You know? We're talking about purpose.

Nathan: Mhmm.

Steve: How intentional are you as far as work life balance and so on? Because there are a lot of people who say that work life balance doesn't exist. So, I mean, what what are your thoughts on that?

Nathan: I'm incredibly intentional. So I every week, I have a date with my kids, and I I've I've done much better with my kids than I have with my wife. Mhmm. But this year, starting out with a bang and even, before I left town on Monday, I took the two kids together to, a movie. So normally, I do it like one on one, but every week, have that specific time.

And, and also just finding things. So at the beginning of February 2022, sat down with the whole family and said, hey. What are the things we wanna do as a family this year? And we wrote out a list. And so, hey.

We wanna go to these places. We wanna go have these experiences. Wanna spend this time traveling together. And so I honestly don't necessarily believe that work life balance exists. I think it's more of the creation of how you spend your time.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And, and so what my priority in the business was to give me more time to do the stuff I like to do. Yeah. And that includes hanging out with the family. It includes going on trips and, and just, you know, where we live and and being able to have a place that we love to be when we're there and and, the opportunity to go to places we wanna be.

Steve: I like the idea of sitting down with your family and, like, planning, like, what you guys wanna do. And I think this is it doesn't matter where you what season you are in your business. Right? Like, you are in a season in your business where you have a lot more freedom.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Time and financial. I'm in a situation where I have a lot of financial freedom. That's much time freedom. But for a lot of the guys right now that are listening, they might have no, time or financial freedom at the moment.

You can still sit down with your family and plan, like, here's what we wanna do this year. Here are the goals for this year Yes. And block it out. Because one of the things that happens is if your family's bought in, they're more understanding when you've got to step away from dinner to take the calls. Because these are the tough things you have to do when you're early in your business.

Nathan: A 100%.

Steve: You have to leave the dinner table to take a call and it sucks. Right? You mean your girlfriend or wife may be rolling her eyes. It's part of being an entrepreneur when you're starting.

Nathan: But if

Steve: you take that time to actually sit down with them and and get buy in from them Yeah. And do something together. It's like, here's what we're gonna do together later on this year, but I can't do those things if we're not operating as a team right now.

Nathan: Yes. Well, and even like, you know, so our family loves to go to Florida. So let's say, you know, I can't afford to fly. Okay. Cool.

Well, what does the gas cost? $500? Cool. Now you get what we do every month is we have bank accounts for travel. We have bank accounts for charity, and we put that aside.

And so it might be $25 or $50 or whatever it is. But again, it comes to that question. We can't do that right now. No. What does it take for us to do that right now?

Mhmm. And, and it might not be going to Florida. It might be going to a, you know, local amusement park or whatever it might be. But, you can make it as a target, and now you know how to get there. Yeah.

And, and I think, you know plus there's joy in in having that that, time with your family, and we had a blast talking about what we wanna do and, and just being able to include them because then you have buy in, like you said, and and then now you can, you know alright. Well, are we gonna spend money on this stupid thing, or are we gonna, you know, put this towards going on this cool trip?

Steve: Right. Yeah. You can you have a again, having a North Star

Nathan: Yep.

Steve: Helps you figure out is this getting me closer to my goal or not?

Nathan: Yeah. Absolutely.

Steve: So Notascam, another great name. What do you think about regulations that are coming in regarding wholesaling and assignment fees?

Nathan: Well, you know, it's interesting because so I it's a great question. I've never been a wholesaler, to be clear, but I've bought from a lot of them, and I have a lot of them that are friends. So I I think that, some regulation is actually great. Mhmm. I think that to help professionalize that that area of our business, because there are a lot of people who do operate that don't know what they're doing.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And it's very clear when you get into a deal with them, what's happening. And so I think for the for the you know, when you think about, like, a realtor, you have to have a certain education. It's not much, to be clear. But, you know, and there's a this is a certain level of of what we have to uphold as a as a licensed agent. Mhmm.

And, and I I think it's a good thing. So I hope Yeah. And I don't think it matters how much you make, you know, and even as a buyer, I don't care how much you make. But I wanna make sure that the information is clear and that those sellers were, you know, treated reasonably and Mhmm. And and, honestly.

And, so, I'm happy for that.

Steve: Yeah. I definitely disagree.

Nathan: Okay.

Steve: But, I think it's gonna happen. Right?

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Because we're not self regulating. And I think that's the biggest problem. Right? Like, I think if we were self regulating and calling out bad behavior

Nathan: That would be totally different.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: That would be totally different. Right. And to be clear, I don't think the government does a great job of that either. No. And so, you know, I I I'm not excited for that part, but I think something had to change.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And and so in the system that we operate in, that's a great point. So I agree with you completely. Yeah. I I would rather self regulate.

Steve: Right. Much rather self regulate, but it's not gonna happen. The government's gonna come in. They're gonna come in with a heavy hand. Yes.

Nathan: And they're

Steve: gonna be selling a lot of people that are gonna get screwed. You know, like my my something I said before, my biggest concern, my biggest fear is I've been making these videos right now, like how we love drug dealers, and honestly, we do.

Nathan: They're

Steve: they're great hustlers. Right? Yeah. But my biggest fear is there are a lot of guys that did, you know, things in the past. They're regrettable.

Nathan: Yep.

Steve: Right? And they've got a record. And now they're doing something which is legal

Nathan: Yes.

Steve: But doesn't get regulated, and these are the guys that get hurt. Right? The guys that have a felony are not gonna be able to get a real estate license.

Nathan: Oh, interesting.

Steve: And now they're gonna be regulated out of the business. And these are the unintended consequences that occur Yeah. Right? If we're not self regulating, we're not taking care of ourselves.

Nathan: And that, you know and I hadn't even thought about that, and this is an awesome point. And I do know several people that really have changed their life in an extraordinary way

Steve: Right.

Nathan: Getting into real estate. And and so there's that there's a great lesson too right now to say, alright. Well, if you see somebody who is operating like that, you know, don't don't do business with them. Tell and, like, let's not accept that as a as a, a real estate profession.

Steve: Yeah. We

Nathan: don't need to do that.

Steve: Right. And, it was actually because kinda ironic, just yesterday my partner Max totally blasted somebody on Instagram. I was like, well, maybe that's not the best way to do it. But

Nathan: And it's hard, you know, and everybody has their own personality too. Right? And and, so we have to understand, like, what again, what is it that we want? Well, we want people that are operating, with integrity

Steve: Mhmm.

Nathan: And we wanna buy more deals. And so, you know, that's tough. But that was a good point. That's a that's a really interesting point.

Steve: So Ingrid Hernandez wants to know, are your contractors licensed?

Nathan: Yes. You know, we we use con early on, you know, basically anything goes. And, that is it it was a disaster. And so, you know and plus, as you as you we professionalize our business. We have more deals that we're doing.

We have a bigger target on our back. You know, you're dealing with cities who all of a sudden, you know, hey. If you have the one project going on and you're you're not running a professional contractor or pulling a permit or something like that, you know, what are you gonna do? Get your hands slapped? Well, hey, you have 30?

They're gonna go through every one of those houses Mhmm. And figure out what's going on. So

Steve: Yeah. And they could put a pause.

Nathan: On everything. Yeah. Yeah. So, we did not mess around with that.

Steve: What, what was your worst situation on this letting everything let let anything go contractors? What was the worst story?

Nathan: Oh, man. Well, I don't know if it was just a contractor story, but I I remember one. We we've had a few, self inflicted, but, this wasn't necessarily the contractor's problem, but we bought a house, that was that was a triplex. And, we, had gone gone through almost the entire renovation. And a neighbor, calls us in because I don't think we we did not pull the permit.

And we're like, oh, great. So, the actual work was pretty good in the house, but, so we get we we put them off, put them off, put them off. They come in, and they're like, well, you know, actually, everything's not bad. You know, you need to pull a permit for the HVAC or whatever. But by the way, this is not a triplex, and, you cannot operate it as a triplex.

And you have to get special permission even to operate it as a duplex. So the only option you have is to operate it as a single family home or go try to get, you know, variance from the city. And mind you, there is, these are all these like turn of the century homes that, you know, all the way down the street, triplex triplex triplex triplex triplex. And I'm like, dude, that like, look at the entire street, they're all triplexes. He was like, well, you can turn them in if you want.

Like, you can But we got called in, and so we had to literally tear out two entire kitchens out of this thing

Steve: Oh, man.

Nathan: Put them back in the wall, Reese, you know, set it up, and, but we ended up turning that house into an Airbnb, and we actually crushed it with that. But Yeah. It was an absolute nightmare in going through, you know, first as a triplex and then as a single family and then as a, you know, vacation rental. So

Steve: for those that are listening, what is a variance?

Nathan: A variance? It's basically you have to go to the city and, so we're dealing with a variance right now on a new construction project where, in a code it says, hey, you have to have your construction project where, in the code it says, hey. You have to have your garage this distance from the property line, but, you know, the entire neighborhood doesn't follow that. But because in the code it says that, they're giving us a hard time. So we have to get a variance from the city to approve that we can have a a different, you know, distance.

And so there's a lot of different variances you could have, but

Steve: Right. But you gotta get approval from the city, saying, hey.

Nathan: From the city.

Steve: You guys are okay with this now. Right? Yeah. And if they don't, then you're SOL.

Nathan: Right. And and that was the other issue in because in the history of the title, there was nothing that said anything about being a triplex. Mhmm.

Steve: So

Nathan: and that was the other thing. You know, the lesson learned in there is, like, you're buying something old like that and it's a triplex, you know, you might wanna talk to your title company and make sure you understand, if it's actually, you know, showing up as a as a three unit Yep. In the city.

Steve: So Kai wants to know on YouTube, as someone who's starting in wholesaling that wants to eventually move to flipping, when is the right time to pivot?

Nathan: You know, I I I love this question, in the spirit of, like, are you trying to, you know, train transform your wholesaling business to a flipping business, or is it simply, like, the nature of trying to make more money? So I like having a wholesale business that that is simply your acquisitions arm to your flipping business, then, of course, you can sell what you don't wanna flip. But I also would add on to that, depending on what your what your end result is, you can hold some of those things too. So, you know, one of the the things for me, like, what would you do different? I would have kept a lot more.

Yeah. I would have kept a lot more. And so, you know, everybody's selling houses and selling whatever. You can always trade up, so it doesn't mean you have to keep those same houses. You could trade up in 10/31 to, you know, apartments or self storage or whatever.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: But, you know, I would say, you know, I would do it as soon as possible, but test it. Right? So do one and test it and get a little better. Do one. And, and so that way, as you're wholesaling off and then say, alright, cool.

Well, we're gonna flip five now, but we're gonna keep one.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And, so the I I like stair stepping those so you you learn small and then you scale big.

Steve: Yeah. And I like your answer because you're you're suggesting having a wholesaling operation and a flipping operation. Yep. The wholesaling operation still needs to stand on its own. Yes.

And the flipping company has to be able to stand on its own. And the problem a lot of entrepreneurs make, mistake they make, is they'll try to, like, okay. Well, I'll just flip this as a wholesale. And now we've got this profit on this deal, but we don't know how much it was due to the wholesale and how much it was due to the flip. Yep.

And if you can't we can go back later on. Right? But, really, you should be wholesaling to your company at the market rate where you would've been able to wholesale to somebody else for. So then you could figure out whether it was a good flip or not.

Nathan: A 100%.

Steve: But most people just kinda start colluding your

Nathan: Cross collateralizing. Yeah. Plus, I I think it it does they they they are, they do what work very well together. Mhmm. And you don't have to flip all of them either.

So you you can sell some stuff out and that's great. You know, cherry pick the good ones and and then keep the good ones too that, you know, if you if you want to, you know, be an owner and holder of real estate.

Steve: So one of the first things I learned about you when we first met was that you had just fought your first professional fight.

Nathan: Amateur fight. Amateur fight.

Steve: Sorry. Amateur. I would argue if there are people there and it's an organized event. Alright. Did the people pay to be at that event?

Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Steve: I would argue that's professional. I think in the Olympic standard, right, if you if there's any money involved, it's a professional event. Maybe you didn't pocket any money.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: So talk to me about that journey because most people don't wanna get punched in the mouth. Mhmm. So what was that journey?

Nathan: Yeah. So, it was interesting because I so I grew up I was bullied as a kid. I had a lot of fear around around that night. I I grew up into this body. I'm six, you know, six foot three, weigh a couple hundred pounds.

I'm, you know but do you I never had the confidence of what that felt like to actually be in a situation as you have a a wife, or you have a spouse, do you have kids? And so it kind of tormented me for a while. Not kind, it tormented me for a long time. And I remember when Joe Rogan's podcast, Tim Ferris's podcast, and Jocko's podcast, and they started having these, like Josh Waitzkin and other, you know, the Gracies, and talking about jiu jitsu and talking about what it was. So I was like, man, I gotta try this out.

And so that led me to a, jiu jitsu gym, and I remember that my coach, Trey, you know, he's this, like, specimen of a man, and, I was like, dude, like, what do you do? And he's like, well, I'm a fighter, you know, like, well, this is pretty cool. So I started doing, and started doing one on one sessions with him, and, started training and and then started going to the gym, and it's actual fight gym. There's now I think they have, you know, 17 fighters in the UFC at this point in the gym. So I'm regularly training with guys who are, you know, prize fighters in the UFC.

Right? And not that I was that good, to be clear. I was not that good, but, I was training. And so it was the situation, much to the displeasure of my wife, I'm sure, that I was actually at a CG event, and, I texted my coach and I was like, hey. I'm tired of thinking about it.

I'm gonna train all this time. I'm not gonna actually do it. Mhmm. And I will hate myself for my entire life if I don't. And so I texted him.

Within twenty four hours, I had a profile picture of some dude and I was just like, sure. Done. I'll take it. And so, yeah, the the it was a promotion in Kansas City. I think there I mean, there's probably a 1,500 people there.

It's in an arena.

Steve: That feels like a professional match.

Nathan: Well, they have so in the MMA world, they have, amateurs and they have professionals.

Steve: Got it.

Nathan: And so you actually have to have a certain number of amateur fights to even get approved to be a professional fighter.

Steve: Got it.

Nathan: And so, it's very much a professional event.

Steve: The lights are bright.

Nathan: The lights are very bright. Yeah. I spent three three months trying to pick out my, my walkout song, didn't hear it. So, it's it's quite the experience.

Steve: So you're trying to handle some childhood Yeah. Situations?

Nathan: Yeah. Both the feeling of that as well as the actual tactical, like, what does it feel like to be in this? And let me tell you, if you have not trained and you watched your your your fights or whatever, people don't appreciate what that training's like. I mean, the physical nature of your body, but also the emotional experience of that. So I remember leaving the gym and, you know, being in tears because you're I'm a grown man.

I have a multimillion dollar business, and I just got my ass kicked, you know, for ninety minutes.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: And, and it's brutal. It's brutal.

Steve: So Well, you lasted though. It sounds like so you went it went it went the all the way to the to the end.

Nathan: So I I lost the I lost the fight, But

Steve: you went to the end. I went to the end. That's that's a moral victory.

Nathan: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Losing sucks.

I did not like losing. Mhmm. But, you know and actually, crazy story. So the day before the fight, we have weigh ins, and, I ended up at the same facility sitting in the same sauna as my opponent. So I'd never met him, and we walked into the same facility, the same place, and he's standing in this, like, trash bag suit.

Come to find out, he he still missed weight by 12 pounds. But, so we sat in a sauna closer than you and I are at this seat right now, for several hours Yeah. The day before the fight.

Steve: So what did you learn about yourself after the fight?

Nathan: Well, you know, emotional our emotional conversation with ourself and the stories we tell ourselves are powerful. And, you know, when you're in the middle of a round in a in a gym like that with a tough person who's a great training partner, right, so they're gonna push you, there's a lot that you can that you can do to yourself to the positive or the negative with whatever you're telling yourself. And I also would say, you know, understanding our capacity as a human to suffer, there's an incredible amount of suffering that happens, in a fight gym. And when you put yourself in that situation and you have some, you know, person on top of you punching you in the face and trying to choke you out, it makes you a lot more able to work through difficult situations where they're not trying to punch you in the face Mhmm. And have both resilience and patience to work through the problem and identify a problem.

Just like in jiu jitsu. Right? You have somebody on, like, what is the puzzle piece that I need to solve? You're in striking, you know, what are the things I need to do to to maneuver and to faint and to to punch and kick? And So, you know, there's a lot of parallels in martial arts.

Steve: So tough it out. Hopefully, that answered your question. He's asking about what lessons did you learn from MMA that translated to your business. Sounds like we've kinda addressed that. Was there more?

Nathan: No. I mean, there's there's a lot. You know, there's a lot there. But, you know, I think I think also just perseverance. And, it's it's so easy when you see, you know, people who are doing something and they're like, you know, comparison is the thief of joy.

Right? We we look at other people and we are like, oh, man. Why can't I blank blank blank blank blank. And, so, you know, I'm never gonna be in the UFC, but I can work my butt off today and do my job in the gym today. Yeah.

And, you know, people when you when you look at your business, it's like, you haven't created it. Well, you haven't created it because whatever you're doing is not creating that yet, or you need the patience and perseverance to continue doing the thing Mhmm. That will produce the result that you want.

Steve: Yep. And then you wrote a book. What's it called?

Nathan: It's called well, so Steve, I wanted to tell you because I was I I've been kind of putting little nuggets out there, and, and so I haven't even, like, announced the title of the book. I just had a signed, a book deal with a publisher. So it's called The No Quitter's Guide to Investing in Real Estate and Living an Extraordinary Life. So it very much, parallels that no quitting attitude Mhmm. Perseverance attitude, clarity of focus, and and and really awesome you know, living an awesome life.

Steve: Yeah.

Nathan: So I'm so pumped to, be, be getting it out there, and the journey of writing is quite the, quite the effort too.

Steve: Yeah. So it wasn't easy.

Nathan: Well, I wrote the entire book. I hired a coach. Okay. And, I we did, like, 30 some thousand words of pre work, and then I wrote the whole book in less than three weeks.

Steve: Wow.

Nathan: 66,000 words.

Steve: Wow.

Nathan: I came back to it, like, three or four weeks later, and I hated it. And so, my coach was like, well, you know what? Why don't we, why don't you rewrite the the first quarter of the book, and we'll come back to it. And so I rewrote the first quarter of the book, and it was so much better. She's like, you know, why don't you write the you know, go ahead and write the next quarter?

And I end up rewriting the entire book, a second time in six months. So

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. Kai on YouTube wants to know, what's the one thing you do to get over mental hurdles?

Nathan: Oh, man. It's that's a great question. It it is understanding as quickly as possible going from an emotional state to a powerful state, which is what is the problem. Mhmm. And, when you see the problem, like, you know, oh, I can't believe this is happening.

Right? Boom. Now you're immediately out of problem solving.

Steve: Mhmm.

Nathan: And, so and also telling yourself, like, I can solve this no matter what it is. And so we just identify the problem. I I am I'm a problem solving machine. I tell my team all the time, I love problems. I just want better problems.

And, so when you find a problem, identify it and and and create this the simplest path, that that solves your problem.

Steve: Yeah. I I love the way you you phrase it. Going from an emotional state to a powerful state.

Nathan: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Because even just calling it a powerful state, you've mentally empowered yourself. Right? I'm gonna crush this problem.

Nathan: Crush this problem. Yeah. And and, you know, that's that's a a thing in and of itself. Right? So if you're in that emotional state or, fear based state, like, what are the things you do to get out of that?

Mhmm. So, you know, for me, I it's Jocko Podcast. Dude, I can listen to that dude's voice, and I wanna go run through a wall. I can put on some songs. You know, music is a powerful state change.

Go outside. Go do something physical. Go to the gym. Right? So, you know, a lot of times I think people are like, I hear you, Nathan, but what do I do about that?

Mhmm. And have a predetermined thing. I already know. If I find myself there, I know what to do.

Steve: Here's my routine to transition.

Nathan: My routine. Here's how I get back out of that.

Steve: Have you hooked up or connected with the echelon front?

Nathan: I have not done anything specific with them. No. Have you?

Steve: I have not. Wait. You connected with SEAL Team Leaders. Right?

Nathan: Yeah. SEAL Team Leaders.

Steve: Yeah. So we just hired them, and our first call is on Friday. Yep. So we got Larry who's gonna whip my team in the shape.

Nathan: I remember my first call with them too.

Steve: So let's talk about that. We've talked about leadership. We're talking about, Jocko. So, Larry Yash with SEAL Team Leaders.

Nathan: Yep.

Steve: They have a a a leadership organization, leadership training organization, called SEAL Team Leaders.

Nathan: Yep.

Steve: So what are some things I should be looking out for? Because he's gonna be coming hard.

Nathan: So Well, you know, it's just like everybody. Right? So everybody has their own, individual style. Mhmm. Larry is is an incredible thinker, and he, he likes to be very specific with definitions of words, what they mean, and also actions.

And and so, you know, it's one of those things that, when we got into that conversation with them, they're like, you know, guys, you have, like, 13 businesses here, and you have no process in that for for what you're doing. And and they were a great help, honestly, in the transition of our, business from renovations to new construction. So we had had them in our office. We we worked with them quite a bit as well. And it's not just Larry too.

They have a they have a whole team full of rock stars and, and all different little different skills. And so, you know, I would say not just in in, in, like, that call with them, but they have some tools both, like, in giving a feedback. They have an actual feedback workshop, which is awesome. And they have, the way they communicate and talk about coordination and action and they talk about, how you operate Mhmm. It's really interesting.

So I think you will you will find it to be extremely helpful.

Steve: I'm looking forward to it. I'm a little terrified. What is your biggest struggle right now?

Nathan: What is my biggest struggle right now? Right now, it is the patience of both for me and the team of working through the remaining renovation projects and seeing this thing that we're really excited about, but also still having to renovate well on these properties and, when we have a lot less staff who is responsible to do that job. And, and just the patience to understand, like, hey. It takes time to do that and it also is not producing the result that we want, but because we made that decision, that was part of the decision. And that's the patience to let that thing run and then to be able to have full focus onto the new construction.

Steve: You knew this was gonna be difficult Yeah. Remembering that we made the decision that it was gonna be difficult.

Nathan: Correct. Yes. Yeah. And also, you know, even from, like, a revenue perspective because, you know, you're used to buying all these houses and you're used to putting stuff in, and new construction takes longer. So it's the learning and planning of Mhmm.

Of that as well and not just, like, hey. That we bought our first piece of ground in 02/2019, like early twenty nineteen, and we thought we were gonna have we were gonna have that house out of the ground and a CEO, you know, cleared the house cleared by the city in, like, September that year. And we got the CEO for that house in, like, July 2020. So it's like everything takes longer than you than you expect it to do. And just in this situation, you know, and all the things we didn't see that even though, like, this is the decision we're making, but we didn't see this thing.

Yeah. And, so when those things come up, it's it's tough to work through.

Steve: One of the things that, you know, when you have to let people go, it's really hard. There's one thing. It was really hard for me to fire people initially. Right? But you kinda get to a point where, unfortunately, better or worse, you know, you get kinda jaded and you grow.

Like, you realize, like, well, this isn't working. Is that me? Like, it's you. Like, literally, it's you. I can't do anything about this.

Right? But you made a pivot, and you got amazing people, and, you know, you're not a psychopath.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Right? So when you had to let them go, I'm sure that was incredibly difficult. Horrible. So talk about that event because that that must have been, a massive overhaul.

Nathan: Yeah. It was horrible. My COO and I sat in a room for two days and, cried almost after every one of them, with the people because we loved them all. They were awesome. And, we gave them, you know, some some runway financially.

And we also you know, I worked very hard to connect intersect people in our market that, you know, would be potential jobs. Almost all of them but one within, like, a week or ten days had jobs.

Steve: That's good.

Nathan: And, you know, it sucks. It sucks firing people. And, but, you know, Jim Collins, Good to Great talks about, you know, right people ride seats in the bus with the leader, you know, and talks about level five leaders. I think that's a different book maybe, but No.

Steve: It's a single.

Nathan: Same book. Yeah. But when we realized, and this is something out of that SEAL teams too, is like we're so clear now on what the objective is as a a company that we cannot not make this choice. Mhmm. And it's simply a decision now.

This this is the there's no longer a seat for you. Mhmm. But I love you as a person, and you do a great job, on our team. And so, you know, we sat there and we had those conversations, which was which was rough. Yeah.

It's terrible. But you know what? You made the call. You're the one in that seat. You go sit and have that conversation.

Steve: Yeah. You didn't do the Zoom thing. We let 900 people go. I was like, hey, if you're on the Zoom meeting That's crazy. You're on the Zoom meeting.

Yeah.

Nathan: Do you notice he's no longer in that position anymore?

Steve: Oh, really?

Nathan: Yeah. He I think within like two or three weeks he had taken a leave of absence and I I'm 99% sure that dude is no longer in that suit.

Steve: Rightfully so.

Nathan: Yeah. That's crazy.

Steve: Yeah. It's the worst way to demonstrate

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: Any kind of compassion. I mean, I get that we are in a for profit business, and we do everything we can to help our people.

Nathan: Yeah.

Steve: You know? And, like, if we can't support them, we can't support them, but we do everything with our power to do it. Yes. But it's the callousness.

Nathan: It's insane. One of their caveats that, was interesting and Seal's team talked about this as well was as the more clear you are with who you are, the people who who are the hell yes and see the vision, wanna be a part of it are there. Mhmm. And the ones that are not or don't see the vision or don't, they're not like that tied to it, leave. And, you know, we had a number of people after we made that cut who also left.

Mhmm. And, you know, it was interesting trying to talk to my team because they're like, everybody's leaving. Like, hold up. The people are leaving who are not a 100% in on this mission, and that's okay.

Steve: Right.

Nathan: We want them to leave. Yeah. And so, you know, that's a hard place to get in in both compassion for that situation and also the understanding of how to communicate that with your team.

Steve: Yeah. Well, and and if they're not part of the mission

Nathan: You don't want them there.

Steve: Right. And it's not a bad thing. Right? Like No. They they have found something that more is more in line with what they want Yes.

It's selfish of us to try to keep them.

Nathan: Them. A 100%. Yeah. We want them to win. Yeah.

And that's just like the abundance mindset. Right? So I've had a number of people who who have worked for me who've gone on and and built their own company, you know. And, I'm like, good luck catching up. And there's the there's the, you know, gotta go win.

But, and also, like, there's plenty for everyone. And it's it's cool. If you wanna go work for a different company, great. You wanna go search your own, great. Mhmm.

Do what it is that brings purpose in in in your work so that you enjoy doing it.

Steve: Yep. So what is your superpower?

Nathan: What is my superpower? I think that, I am a person who is incredibly positive, and no matter what the situation is, I am capable and and consistent with working through whatever that is and and solving. And I'd also say that it is, in in connecting with people and and through that, having real connection and, and then, you know, opportunity and relationship come from that.

Steve: And is there one book you've gifted more than any other book?

Nathan: I'm a book nut. So I would say I don't know if I think Extreme Ownership is one, and I also loved Four Hour Workweek. I thought that that book was, very interesting, and there's so many little pieces of that book that helped. But now, yeah, I'd say between Jocko's Extreme Ownership, Never Split the Difference, Rich Dad Poor Dad, soon to be my book, Steve.

Steve: Of course.

Nathan: Which Brandon Turner, by the way, said, you don't need to go read 13 real estate books, you can just read this one. Mhmm. Which is pretty cool.

Steve: That is pretty cool.

Nathan: But, I love Audible also. So, you can give away a free book to anybody who does not have an Audible account. Mhmm. So I try to you know, in in any instance and when there's the opportunity, I love giving books like that too.

Steve: That's awesome.