Launching a Wholesaling Real Estate Franchise

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we've got Mark Stubler with Joe Homebuyer. He flew in from Salt Lake City, Utah to talk about how he went from a sales job to wholesaling to launching a wholesaling franchise. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer for some of the top wholesalers in the country, and I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires.

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That way we can all grow together. You ready?

Mark Stubler: Let's go. Thanks for having me, Steve.

Steve: Oh, it's my pleasure. So the first question is, what got you into real estate?

Mark: Man, I had a gig that was actually a really rewarding job. I worked for a company for eleven years, but it was selling fencing and decking. So nothing to do with, real estate at all. I did, however, try one time a rehab with a buddy Mhmm. You

Steve: know, several

Mark: years back. And we couldn't sell it, so we were we were compelled to keep it as a rental. So that was all I knew about real estate before I actually got into it.

Steve: Well, that's the classic story. Right? Like, it was a good deal. Well, it wasn't that a good deal, so we're gonna rent it out.

Mark: And, like, now it's like,

Steve: well, if I can't now it's not even like I we can rent it out. It's like you can turn it into a group home, or you can turn it into Right. I think the last thing now is an Airbnb.

Mark: Yeah. Something to just salvage the deal. Right? And here's the funny thing, and you could say this about how many properties. But had I kept it today, like, what it'd be worth today.

Right? But, obviously, we got out of it eventually and and, you know, wiped our foreheads and said, hey. We survived to tell the tale type thing.

Steve: Yeah. I know. There's a lot of a lot of those properties. So when was this that you were working your sales job?

Mark: So, actually, six years ago is when I took the entrepreneurial journey with Cody Hofhein.

Steve: Okay.

Mark: He and I partnered up and started wholesaling in Salt Lake. Got it. And it was one of those things where I love to tell the story. So I'm working for a company, great company. And I got to the point where, you know, I really knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but it wasn't until they told me I had to come into the office for four hours a week to be a I refer to it as a pencil sharpener, but they took away my autonomy.

Mhmm. And it was one of those experiences where, believe it or not, it would it turned a switch. It flipped a switch of, like, no. No. No.

I don't work for myself. I don't have as much of flexibility as I as I'd like. And it was pushed me into gear to leave working for somebody and start my own business. So Cody and I stayed in touch. We were buddies.

And, we decided, hey. Let's, take this on together to see what we can do, in Utah. And we were able to create a pretty special company pretty quick in the Salt Lake market.

Steve: Now Cody has privately shared with me that you are the brains behind the operation.

Mark: He's the he's the beauty. I'm the bronze or however that goes, I think. No. Cody's fantastic. And anybody that knows Cody, he, you know, puts his heart into everything he does.

But he was we were able to divide and conquer. He was able to go do coaching, and I was able to run the operations. And we were able to really let two businesses grow in parallel to each other. Yeah. So it's it's been awesome.

Steve: So then is that same time that Cody started?

Mark: Yeah. He started a few months before me.

Steve: Okay.

Mark: Yeah. But 2015, 2016.

Steve: And you guys initially partnered up from the get go?

Mark: No. He was doing it. And then he actually, was a good enough friend to say, bro, you really gotta get into this real estate Mhmm. Which was cool. He didn't hold it to himself.

Himself. He said, hey. No. No. No.

There's enough for for both of us. You gotta try this out. I tried it out for a few months, and then it became clear very quickly that, hey. We can, make this happen together. And, you know, so we just decided to partner up at that point.

But he had been doing it just a few months and just got exceptional results right off the bat.

Steve: How did you guys approach that conversation? Because there's a lot of people right now, you know, and I see this on a regular basis, and I don't generally encourage it. But, like, you know, you got two buddies. We're wholesaling. What are you doing?

What am I doing? And then at some point, it's like, it doesn't make sense to partner. Right. How did you guys approach that conversation?

Mark: That's a tough one because, you know, Cody says the the the whole quote that, you know, partnerships, are like boats normally, or they, you know, they don't necessarily float. Right? They don't succeed. And in our case, it's worked because we have different strengths. He's the promoter.

He's the visionary. I've been an implementer, in in a lot of applications of the business. And so for whatever it worked. But your specific question, like, how did that conversation go? I just had a high level of trust.

Our families were friends. Our wives had a connection. It became clear that if I was gonna, you know, run with somebody, it needed to be somebody that I felt like I knew outside of business. I knew their character outside of business. And so that's the conversation I would maybe challenge a listener to is is if you're thinking of going into business with somebody, how do they conduct themselves when they're, you know, when the heat's on, when they're with their family?

You know, some of those real life applications. And I felt like with Cody, you know, I knew him outside of the business world, outside of finances, and I knew that what type of character he was.

Steve: Yeah. You know? And I think that's great because you guys are friends before beforehand. One of the things I always look for when I'm meeting somebody, not not partnership, but just in general, if I wanna associate myself with this person, is when we go to lunch and see how they treat the host or the server.

Mark: Very good.

Steve: You know? That's just one of those things that you kinda get a like, does did they treat everyone nicely, or do they only treat people that they need to get something from nicely? Well, so. Alright. So six years ago, as you guys decided to join forces, start doing this, what was your first deal?

Seeing as how he was already doing deals, what was your first deal like?

Mark: I'd love to tell you this story, man. So everybody says that whole cliche answer, your first deal is your hardest. And I I don't know that that I mean, that's absolutely true. So I remember the house that I went to was a is actually a townhome, sitting down with a great family, husband and wife couple. The home had, become, you know, a little bit dated and distressed.

They hadn't taken care of it, but they were just in financial bind. They got they had to clear their slate of some of their financial issues. I was there for four and a half hours. And here's the best part, Steve. I left because they were humming and hawing about it about three hours in.

They said, why don't you, you know, I could tell they needed to think about it, and they weren't quite ready to make a commitment. And, again, I came from an industry. Although I was selling fencing and decking, I was used to sitting people in their living room and selling them a product. This is a little different and a lot longer. So I'm here for three, four hours.

And I I said, alright. Let me I I've gotta run an errand anyway. Let me you know, give me just a little bit of time. I'll let you guys digest the idea. They also wanted to call a family member.

So get this. I come back and they call me, like, five minutes before I get there. And I just had this hunch. I'm like, I'm not gonna answer it. I'm just gonna show up.

They get they whatever they're gonna tell me, they gotta tell me face to face. Mhmm. Show up, knock on the door, and they're like, oh, we left you a message type thing. They were trying to call off the dogs. They were trying to say, hey.

We'll we'll worry about this another time type thing. And, ultimately, what they were saying is, we just can't get there yet. We're not we're not comfortable. And it was because they couldn't get ahold of her brother-in-law, and they just wanted to feel at peace that, hey. They were making the right decision.

Well, we waited around a little longer. The brother-in-law came over. We hosted a party talking about buying the house. After about four hours, they were able to get to a point that

Steve: Another four hours?

Mark: No. Total total. Okay. Four hours in total, we were able to get to a point, that they were able to feel comfortable that, hey, you know you know, getting out of the home, moving on, transitioning in their life was was a win for them. And they felt like they could trust me at that point.

They got to a level that they said, alright. This guy's providing a solution for us. And they got the blessing from somebody that they trusted that knew a little bit about real estate Mhmm. And we were able to rock and roll. But it was it was not your, you know, you know, walk in the park type scenario.

It it definitely took a lot of hustle.

Steve: Well, so how did your experience selling decking and fencing before translate into that appointment and subsequent appointments?

Mark: So when I'm looking to hire an acquisition guy, this is the very end to I look for people that have experienced transactional sales. You know, this idea that turning a no into a yes. Mhmm. As I'm thinking of, you know, somebody that is experienced knocking on a door, getting initial rejection, but having to be a warm, receptive person that they invite in. And so sitting down with people talking about any product in my mind is a great catalyst for helping you succeed in real estate.

You know, it's just a different product. Right? But I will tell you the underlining theme and this is sales one zero one. So I'm not gonna say anything to anybody, but I'll emphasize it because I truly believe it, is are you willing to connect with the sellers? Are you willing to make a human connection where you're willing to solve their problem?

You know, in fencing world, the problem was maybe safety for their kids or just, you know, wanted more privacy. But in real estate, there's, you know, endless amounts of problems, issues. If you're actively committed to connecting with them, making that human connection, and you're committed to solving their problems, I'm absolutely convinced that that is the the, you know, the most important component for a successful salesperson, as you're looking at that aspect as well. That's why it translated so well because I had a good time visiting with people about fencing and decking, and I had a great time talking to people about real estate.

Steve: Yeah. So you're looking for someone that's got a history of getting their door slammed in their face Yes. And the ability to build empathy and connection.

Mark: That's right. That's huge.

Steve: How are you finding those people?

Mark: It's not easy. And I think it's important you know that it's not easy. Because if you think that alright. I'm gonna put a an offering out there on LinkedIn or or or Indeed or I'm gonna try to recruit, and then I'm gonna have that guy tomorrow. You're mistaken.

Steve: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Mark: It can be a process of, You know, several months, in fact. I obviously start with network. Now you think, well, you know, your network can't be endless. But, yeah, over the years, we continue to reach out to people we know that are in sales positions, who's a successful sales guy that you know. But I always start with network to really try the sniper approach.

Find somebody that is maybe a friend of a friend that's been successful at sales. But, obviously, knowing what you know about door to door, getting the door to something to face, what, you know, settings can you put yourself in to find people that, have have been in door to door sales? Or, you know, who who do you know that knows those people? Mhmm. So those are the type of things that I do.

And then just with the mindset of, hey, a quality acquisition guy, quality sales guy can literally transform your business. It's worth the hustle to do it. It's gonna be as hard to find somebody. You know, the work that goes in is worth, the investment.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that one of the things that's if someone newer in wholesale I mean, someone has been doing this for a while, they understand this. But someone newer, they underestimate how hard it is to find a good salesperson. Right. Because we're crazy, and we're we don't conform.

We don't follow processes. Right. Right. And so, I mean, look at what caused you to flip the switch. I need to come into the office.

Mark: Right. Screw that. That. That's all it took, man. They're like, you've been here for ten years, and we made you come in for four hours, and you're out the door.

Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So salespeople are generally crazy. So I I love that. Alright. So then that was your first one, four hours.

You locked it up, closed it. What was the rest of your beginning journey like?

Mark: So I learned a lot of right? I mean, you have to. You learn a lot of lessons after that. Like, the first three deals that I did, I assigned for $10,000 each. Now the irony is, had I known what I know now, maybe one would have been worth a lot more than that, or maybe all three.

But I was just I was just alright. I put a value. I put a price tag on each one, and I I undersold, really, the value that I created. I remember my second deal was a home that ended up having to get divided to be a split home. Sounds crazy, but in essence, it's just a ton of work for the buyer to get it.

And and I think in today's world, like, even my buyer's list today, I'm like, I don't know how I moved that. I'm not convinced that I could even move it today. It was so random. But, yeah, just a lot of, you know, the journey in the early days was each property provided that powerful education. Right?

I think so many times we're like, well, when this happens, I'll do this. And it's one of those things where in real estate, you just gotta get after it. You gotta learn on each one. You're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna leave money on the table.

And the other thing is stay hyper focused. The one thing I've learned in in the early days is we didn't try to take on rehabs. We didn't try to take on hotels. We just stayed in our lane and built the cash reserves, learned what we could learn. And not until we could take on some of those things without it being a distraction did we monkey with any other aspects of real estate.

Steve: Got it. What were some of the early struggles, you know, when you guys were were launching five, six years ago?

Mark: It makes me think of, leadership. It makes me think of I've had some people that weren't honest with us. So we had some cold callers, a whole group of them. And they actually, like, colluded. And, like, hey.

This is the the new one. This is how you say you're working and don't actually have to work. I mean, in essence, they had talked just enough to realize, hey. This is how you make it look like you're making calls and that type of thing. And so come to find out, we had people, you know, that so one of the struggles, I think, is simply that I wasn't I wasn't really the leader that I needed to be in terms of both inspiring them but also holding them accountable.

I think those are two critical components. Like, I needed to hold them accountable and actually make sure that they knew that what they were doing was meaningful. I put them in a position where they they they realized they could get away with marginal activity at first, and then it probably led from that to I can get away with not doing anything sometimes.

Steve: Right.

Mark: And that was bad leadership. So that's the lesson I learned is the better leader that I've become and, obviously, that's a, you know, perpetual journey. It's an ongoing thing. Oh, yeah. But the better leader that I've become, I attract better people.

And I'm also putting myself in a position where I'm I am I'm helping them succeed because I'm holding them accountable. I'm inspiring them. And so leadership is what I think of, as you ask that question.

Steve: Locally or virtual?

Mark: Locally is when are you specifically, when I'm hiring?

Steve: The one the one that you had people that were colluding.

Mark: Dude, that was local. These are people that we met weekly, hung out in the office. Yeah. They Wow. Wow.

Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Because I hear about this in the virtual side. It's crazy that it will happen in your own office.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: Never would have guessed it. So accountability is one of those things that we all have challenges with. Right? Like, how do you have these difficult conversations? Like, Joe, why are you not making your dials?

Mark: Right.

Steve: Alright. Mark, what's going on? I saw you clocked out at 04:30 yesterday. How are you approaching those conversations? Because those are difficult conversations that are required by leadership slash management.

Mark: Well, it's earned. Right? Like, I can't go have a tough conversation with somebody if I haven't earned it previously in terms of, you know, how I treat them. Am I interested in other aspects of their life? Am I inspiring them?

Have have I earned almost like that, that bucket? Have I made enough deposits into that account of, you know, building trust and and a meaningful relationship so that when something, you know, sticky comes up, I can go to you know, I had an experience with one of my acquisition managers lately, recently. And, I mean, I have a great relationship with him. I care a lot about him. I care a lot about his family.

I hope he senses that. Right?

Speaker 3: Mhmm.

Mark: It's not just face value, but I hope he actually feels that I I care

Steve: about It's not empty words.

Mark: Yeah. It's not empty words. And so when that sticky thing you know, topic comes up specific about, you know, his interest in in doing his own investing type thing, it was you can have these tough conversations and use soft language type thing or or soft tone, I guess, is the other way to say it. And that was something a mentor shared with me is just the ability that sometimes you have to have these meaningful, tough, accountable type questions, but you can do it using kind of a soft tone. And and it can be almost a a very direct, like, dude, you screwed up on this.

But when you're coming from a place of and they they know, you know, deeply how you feel about them, then you can get away with, in my mind, anyway. That's according to Mark Stubler, how I've handled it. And I'm grateful that I have good people

Steve: to see it. Way. A lot more, was it runway to run on before you run out? Yes. Alright.

So then was there a point where there you guys bottomed out or is there any major struggles, you and Cody, in in your journey?

Mark: You'll get a kick out of this. So we're in business for one year. We're killing it in Utah. So we have it all figured out. We're young, dumb, and I you know, Jesus.

So we decide year two, we're gonna go to Indiana. We're gonna do the exact same thing because that's what every reasonable business owner does is you have one year of success.

Steve: You gotta go virtual. That's sexy.

Mark: Yeah. That's sexy. So that's that's what we do. And ironically, we started making money in Indiana. Mhmm.

But we started losing money in Utah because we lost focus. And so that was a struggle. We realized that we tried to expand before we had the infrastructure to do so. That was an early lesson that we learned that we needed to develop, you know, a baseline. Plus, we had a lot more market share in Utah to capture before we actually, you know, had any business going outside of Utah.

Steve: Was there a certain event? Or how did you guys come to realize that, yeah, you're making money over here, but you're losing opportunity? Or what how did you see that?

Mark: It was the trends. We could see that we've had success, you know, previously, fairly consistently over about a sixteen, eighteen month period. And all of a sudden, those those yeah, the the revenue per month was dropping. Mhmm. And it was distraction.

We we try we spread ourselves too thin.

Steve: How long until you guys cut off Indiana?

Mark: We were there about six months.

Steve: Okay. So you saw fairly quickly then, it it seems. Yeah. Like, hey. This we're we're not going the right direction.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: Right. Did you have any be anybody over there, or is it all in Salt Lake?

Mark: So we had, boots on the ground that would do just, you know, rudimentary type tasks. And that was actually part of, part of the reason that it was a distraction in Utah is because we didn't set it up right. We didn't know what we didn't know at the time. We didn't have a rock solid, person on the ground in Indiana, so it required more of our time and attention. That's where the distraction came.

Had we had somebody and understood the value of really a key player out in Indiana, it probably would have afforded us to manage both. But it was we were being pulled in that direction.

Steve: Got it. So then was it you keeping an eye on the bottom line, or is there someone else, counsel, coach, mentor, somebody? Like, how did you get the wherewithal, the presence of mind to to figure that out?

Mark: Yeah. I don't know if this is a blessing or curse, but I I definitely am very aware of, you know, the finances, our KPIs. I I wanna know what we're producing weekly and monthly. A blessing I or, you know, I curse I joke because, you know, I very much am, interested in those things and probably, at an extreme level at times. But I understand that, you know, we've gotta keep the momentum going, and so I I keep a pretty close eye on KPIs.

Steve: Yeah. Well and that's good. Right? And I think that's great that you and Cody work together because Cody is out here.

Mark: He's off. Right?

Steve: And he's going out to miles an hour at all times. Times.

Mark: Right.

Speaker: Right?

Steve: And you're over here, like, keep an eye on the bottom line because if you don't, no one is.

Mark: Right.

Steve: And I I think a lot even though I always you know, people think I discourage all partnerships, I think that it's hard for a solopreneur to grow while maintaining.

Mark: Right.

Steve: Right. So it's it is you you say it might be a little bit of a curse, but it's a blessing that you're able to monitor it. Because who knows how long that could have gone. Right? It's like, why are we not doing more in Indiana while

Mark: Right.

Steve: Salt Lake's going down. And, again, Cody

Mark: and I counseled. So we looked at the numbers, and that's why our partnership has been so valuable is he has, you know, great insight as a visionary. He understands business. He's very, he has, you know, just great instincts that way. So we, you know, we talked.

And it's like, look. What do you think we do? And we were able to just have an honest conversation with each other. It looks like, you know, ever since this, this is this. I mean, it became pretty black and white at that point.

But we've been able I mean, we we crunched the numbers together and and settled on the fact that, hey. Let's there's a lot more opportunity in Utah. Let's worry about another market down the road. Yeah. We ended up going to Dallas two or three years after that, but it wasn't until our infrastructure was sound.

Steve: And it's still up and running. Yes. Got it. Yeah. So we figured it out.

Right. So we're talking about this the sound infrastructure, right, the foundation, which is kind of means, eventually, it's what you end up franchising. So let's talk about someone here who's they're doing a couple of deals a month. How do they build out their business more or less in a box kinda like you you've done? Like, how do they what's the first step in building out the systems and processes to build a replicable business or a repeatable business?

Mark: Yeah. So a lot of, you know, wholesalers in general, real estate investors, their biggest issue that I've observed is not, being consistent, consistent with their marketing, consistent with, you know, their marketing spend or or even their approach. And what it looks like is, you know, they they open up a website. They start putting a little bit of fuel behind it with marketing. And then it doesn't experience the success or they have initial success, but then it kinda peters out.

And so so does their commitment to that. So then they try something else. And, you know, the Joe Homebuyer system, you know, understands that there's ebbs and flows in in marketing and business in general. Yeah. So we have a very, diversified but consistent marketing approach.

We wanna hit multiple channels, but consistently, you have to be prepared to ride out the marketing so that you can see the highs and the lows, but then can as you average it out over the course of time, you've been able to receive the fruits of of consistency. So consistency in my mind is one of the most fundamental aspects that wholesalers miss in general because they they get discouraged. I mean, it's a big deal. You spend $10,000 in marketing. You're out of cash or you're worried about the cash.

Mhmm. And and it's different than buying, you know, other businesses. You might buy, you know, Subway. You might buy sandwich meat and bread on it. At least you see something when you spend $10.

It's sometimes hard. Right? Yeah. You spend 10,000 on marketing, and you're like

Steve: Where is

Mark: it? Where is it? Yeah.

Steve: You have phone numbers.

Mark: It's a sickening feeling for people. And so they have to have you know? And that's what I like about, Joe, is is we're able to help people navigate some of the emotion of that, help them navigate some of the, you know hey. You know, it's calculated. We have data that we can leverage and say, no.

Collectively, this is what we get when we stay consistent. And that's coupled with lead management as well. I mean, I don't care how good your marketing is. You have to obviously there's back ends of the company, lead management, and and things like that that are gonna be instrumental to making sure that marketing works. But, consistency is the underlining theme in my mind that that is a missing component for a lot of business owners.

Steve: But let's say someone wasn't necessarily interested in franchising. Right? Like, they just wanted to build out a business. Yeah. Right?

So, like, what is the first step? And I wanna just, like, really go rudimentary, really super basic. What are the first few steps for building out the systems and processes that you can't have a repeatable business that does not rely, you know, on the business owner being present at all times?

Mark: Okay. So let's dive into this. So what are those things that they can do to build out their business? For me, it's obviously, you have to have clarity on what you're trying to accomplish. Right?

What is what am I trying to do from a revenue, you know, perspective? What do I wanna accomplish? And then reverse engineer it. Right? Putting together a marketing plan.

And then who's gonna go see through, you know, managing the leads and the acquisitions? You know, for me, it's doing as many of the income producing activities as possible. Right? So sure, you wanna have a good CRM, but really start with the most elementary CRM. Something that is just you know, shy of Brent Daniels and I had a good conversation today.

He had literally had one of those accordion files, and and he used it. But it worked for me to do.

Steve: Works for Brent.

Mark: It works. Right? And so, find a system that works for you. And that ultimately is not an income producing activity, a CRM.

Steve: How is that?

Mark: So all you need to have is a system. You need to have it so that it functions for you. But on the extreme opposite, some people will invest hours and hours and financially invest in CRMs. And it's like, you don't even have leads coming in yet. Mhmm.

So it's having crystal clear, you know, what are the income producing activities and put most of your activity. Most of your energy should go towards those. And that could just be as simple as, right, what is my marketing plan? Well, I don't have a huge budget. So I'm gonna do grassroots activities.

I'm gonna drive for dollars. I'm gonna knock on doors. I'm just gonna call people. And the crazy thing is if you take that action consistently enough, you're gonna produce results.

Steve: Absolutely.

Mark: You'll find success. Yep. But But it's it's again, it goes back to that consistency. A lot of times, you fall short because you get discouraged. It's hard.

It is hard. It's simple, but it's hard.

Steve: Yeah. Well, and I think that's one of the things I'm gonna talk about later on, is that wholesaling is really simple.

Mark: Yes.

Steve: But it's not easy. So

Mark: Not easy.

Steve: Alright. So CRM, doesn't matter what it is. Right? And that's one of the questions you get. Like, what CRM should you use?

I don't care. Right. Just go out there and talk to people.

Mark: Right.

Steve: Right? Do the Brent Daniels thing. So Right. You're you're talking to people. You're getting opportunities.

You close your first deal. Right? Let's say $10,000.

Mark: Yep.

Steve: What do you

Mark: do after that? Well, in a perfect world, you're not having to use any of that money for to put bread on the table type thing.

Steve: Right.

Mark: Right? I'm I'm hopeful that you've got something sustaining yourself. When I started, I still kept my fencing and decking job for as a sales guy for about six months. And, you know, I I took some, I, made hay. Well, it was, sunny type thing.

I I had to get in the grind doing both things. Right? It wasn't easy. But, hopefully, you can reinvest all that money back into your business. And for me, the lifeblood is marketing.

Right? So how can I utilize this cash now, this gift of $10,000, which, again, we haven't talked a ton about? Obviously, that's why your listeners are are, in real estate because it's just an incredible industry. To be in the industry that can afford you so much opportunity so quickly. I mean, it doesn't again, it's not easy, but real estate is really just a a beautiful thing in the sense that you can put a lot of work in and the return that you can get quickly.

I think I don't know of another industry that can afford you such a great return, and such a rewarding return so quickly. So with that $10,000, you gotta get to work to to really put it to work for you as best you can. Mhmm. And that includes more of the same activities and just turn that dial a little bit. Just increase the amount of calls you're making.

And if you can leverage a VA to help with calls, if you can, send a few more postcards to highly targeted list, these activities, you just have to commit to, I'm gonna reinvest because again, I started with clarity. I know where I'm going. I know what I'm trying to accomplish so that it's pretty clear. Although this money is in my pocket, I'm not using it for any other purpose than to continue to work towards the goal that I've set out to do.

Steve: So you can increase your activity or leverage your activities with with your first deal.

Mark: Absolutely.

Steve: Okay. So then since you were the integrator, right, like, what are the first key systems you put in place so that you encode you weren't going crazy?

Mark: Yeah. Right off the bat, we had somebody, an admin, and she managed the VAs. And she would do all the things that really were important to get done, but weren't maybe mine and Cody's strengths, the activities that none of us wanna do. Mhmm. But she was, And

Steve: definitely not income activities.

Mark: And definitely not income generating activities. You know, any of those types of things. You know, even just setting up the marketing or, retaining list and working with the VA, we were able to put, a a gal by the name of Jordan, on that task. She worked from home. She was fantastic.

She was somebody that was pretty versatile. So she could be given lots of different tasks and didn't get overwhelmed. Mhmm. But that afforded us the ability to Cody did a lot of the disposition in the early days. I did a lot of the acquisition.

And we were able to just go out and kill it. And then pretty quickly after that, we brought on a inexpensive, inbound somebody that received leads. Somebody that was just a pleasant voice on the phone. They weren't a killer salesperson. They made 12 or $14 an hour, but they just liked to be part of something that was growing, and they wanted to answer the call Yeah.

Call. So really, our first year, that was us. Me, Cody, acquisitions, dispositions. And we had an admin in VAs, but I count really the admin really is one employee with the VAs and somebody helping with calls. And we were able to do a ton of deals.

Steve: I love the idea that you were the integrator and the acquisitions. And that's not a normal Right. Two hats for one person to wear. So going back to earlier, we're talking about wholesaling is simple, but it's not easy. What do you mean by that?

Mark: Well, I it's one of those things where but anything that's super rewarding let's be honest. Something that's super rewarding, It's rewarding because you had to be in the grind. You had to put on the gloves. You had to work hard towards it. Right?

Speaker 2: Mhmm.

Mark: I think of, you know, observing like an acquisition manager getting their first deal or, in my case, one of our franchisees getting their first deal. They obviously cram their brains with everything they need to learn. They set up the infrastructure of the business, and now they invest in marketing. Right? And to see a deal and, you know, bring revenue to their company is, like, the most rewarding thing.

And it's rewarding because they invested a lot. Mhmm. They they I mean, include not just financially, but the time and heartache and all the leads that didn't go well. We had one of our franchisees this week, of last week. He put three, contracts together last week.

And then he finds out this week that two of them are, you know, blowing up because of title issues. Mhmm. And it's like, that's what I mean by it's simple. You've gotta stay consistent. You gotta you gotta work hard, but you have to be prepared that there's some some ebbs and flows.

There's some highs and lows. It's a roller coaster at time.

Steve: Super high highs and super low lows.

Mark: It is, man. You can have the most incredible return. Everything is on fire, and then next thing you know it, like, it's awful. Right?

Steve: I remember we had one month where we were crushing it. It's like, we got a 140,000 on the board. Right? Right. And the 140,000 in, like, a matter of a week turned into, like, 40,000.

Mark: Like that.

Steve: It was like that. Right? And it was just a couple of deals that went sideways, and, like, oh, man. We're gonna finally hit our first 6 figure month.

Mark: Right.

Steve: No. We're not.

Mark: It's a little bit

Steve: of an ego blow. Yeah. So, and then you're going back to your your sales approach, you know, I think it's fascinating that you don't preach making offers.

Mark: I don't. I know that's not popular in the world.

Steve: Well, I'm also in the minority with you on that. So but I love to hear more about this.

Mark: Yeah. For me, I'm not in the business of, making offers. I'm in the business of buying houses. And so when I'm working with the seller, I'm doing everything I can to not make it about price or the house, in fact.

Speaker: Mhmm.

Mark: I'm trying to make it about them and helping them find a solution for their you know, whatever's going on for them. You know? And the home is a byproduct of that. And certainly, that's why we're meeting. And and obviously, ask the questions, you know, condition, and you you tour the home when you show up.

But at the end of the day, it really is about what are you gonna do to help them solve their problem. Because if you can solve their problem, that's the underlining, solution for and building that connect that will ultimately build your your your connection. Mhmm. So as I'm visiting with the homeowner and they say, hey, what's your number? It's mister and missus Seller.

At the end of the day, I'm here to help you move on to plan b. Are you ready to make an agreement? You know, put an agreement together if we're able to come up with a favorable number. And if they're not willing to sell their home today or or execute in that way, I'm not ready to sell give them a price because I'm not interested in putting my number on there. I'm interested in buying the house when they're ready and if I can provide them value.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's a great point. And that's something that, again, we harp a lot on in our, sales process. Right? What we train is that we don't give an offer until they're ready to sign.

And I think that's one of the biggest rookie mistakes that most, like, a very high percentage of wholesalers make is sharing that number and

Mark: then It's leveraged against them.

Steve: Leveraged against them. And it's the example I always like to use is, when I bought my Honda Accord. Right? I mean, I had all the dealerships shopping against each

Speaker: other. Right.

Steve: And I guess sucks, right, for all the dealers, but that's what's happening to us. Right. We're just leaving our offers out there.

Mark: I love that you share that, because it's very common in the real estate world. Offers offers offers is quantity thing, and I just don't adopt that logic at all.

Steve: Yeah. And it's not that it doesn't work. It's just not our approach.

Mark: Well said.

Steve: Yep. So then what prompted you to do the franchise thing? Because there's only there's only one other person I know that has a franchise. So what prompted you to do the franchise thing? Because well, let me qualify that.

Most people say wholesaling is not a sellable business.

Mark: Sure.

Steve: But if you can sell our franchise, sounds like it is a sellable business.

Mark: It becomes a sellable business when you put it wrap it into a brand. Now the brand means something, and it gives you the ability to sell the business. And we chose franchising because I felt like it was the best platform to become partners and to really create running mates throughout the country that we could help them really become myself and Cody in their market. Mhmm. Because the biggest issue with the wholesaler is they have ongoing questions, ongoing struggles.

And what's the best system out there to help them navigate the ongoing, you know, struggles of the business? A partner. Somebody that's invested in their success. I don't make money in the real estate game really and truly until they're succeeding, until my franchisees are out there really building meaningful businesses. And so I do we do everything we can to build a platform so that they succeed.

And I love the partnership model where they know that I'm invested in their success and that their win is our win and that we can celebrate that together. And it it becomes a meaningful relationship in that in that way.

Steve: Got it. So you're still actively involved or you are actively involved in all the franchise franchises?

Mark: As best as I can. Absolutely. As we continue to grow, it's gonna be yet harder and harder, but we have great people on our team Mhmm. That to have the same interest that I do and that are actively helping get the you know, if there's an answer, we're there to help them. If they need help scaling their business, we have a great team to help them scale their business.

Steve: Alright. So I've got, selfish question here. Like, let's pretend I wanted the franchise. Right? Let's do it.

So what do I need to do if I wanted to create a franchise from scratch? Right? Like, I wanna do Real Estate Disrupters podcast franchise, just hypothetically.

Mark: Sure. Right?

Steve: Sure. What's the first step if you wanna start a franchise?

Mark: If you wanna start a franchise? Yeah. So in the franchise world, it's heavily regulated.

Steve: Oh, I know.

Mark: It's wild, Steve. Like the hoots you have to jump through. Yeah. Basically, you have to tell any franchisee, everything they're signing up for, whether it's the Subway or or Papa John's or whatever it is. The FDD, the the franchise disclosure document is where you start.

You have to have a quality attorney that says, I'm committed to creating this document that helps the franchisee know exactly candidate, the franchisee candidate know exactly what they get when they buy this box system of, real estate investing or whatever it is. And the I mean, it's it's an investment with a a a qualified real estate or not real estate, excuse me, attorney Mhmm. That is specialized in in franchising.

Steve: Right. Someone that knows all the hoops, language, whatever. And even though they're using a boiler template that they've done over and over again, they're gonna start so charge you somewhere in the neighborhood of, like, 30 to $50,000

Mark: That's right.

Steve: To put the document together.

Mark: That's right. Yeah. They're they're not gonna do it yeah. They're not gonna do it for you.

Steve: How long was that process?

Mark: For us, it took about a year and a half. A year and a half. Have to take that long, but it was really building out, I mean, maybe from vision to execution was a year and a half. But it was, you know, we didn't necessarily start the FDD day one. It was, what is it gonna take to really build a system that our franchisees can thrive in?

And I talked with lots of other, you know, with connections through Cody and, you know, I I was able to pick the brain of a lot of successful franchise or excuse me, a lot of successful real estate investors. And, you know, you have those natural things. Well, what do you do when one of your franchisees is struggling? And if they don't validate well and they're mad at you and type of thing, it it can all implode very very quickly. And so we really tried to just be methodical as we were starting the franchise.

What is it actually gonna take to build a meaningful system that others could leverage and build, you know, viable businesses out of? And so it was from vision to execution was probably a year and a half. But as far as building out the documents and all that, you know, several months. But Gotcha. It's a process.

Steve: And the first franchise, they're kinda like the pioneer. They maybe don't really get the benefit of the brand name. Sure. The fiftieth guy gets all that credibility.

Mark: We'll be there this year. I think we'll hit 50 this year.

Steve: That'd be incredible.

Mark: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Steve: So, like, what value like, how how are you providing value to the franchisees as far as a brand goes? Like, you know, you see some of these guys like Homevestors. Right? I mean, you got that ugly

Mark: Be a bad guy.

Steve: Whatever. He's I use everywhere. What are you doing to build a franchise brand? Yeah. And You guys aren't on the Super Bowl commercials.

Mark: We're not on the Super Bowl commercials yet. I was thinking about taking off my shirt in this podcast or something. Really building the brand. No. It's a process.

It's gonna take a lot of time. In the meantime, what are we doing to provide each of our franchisees value? And really, it's different for everyone. You know, actually, on Brent Daniels podcast today, he's actually a Joe Homebuyer franchise. And what he gets from Joe Homebuyer is completely different than, you know, somebody else in the sense that they might need from beginning to end everything.

We have other experienced real estate professionals that convert their business to the Joe Homebuyer model. And at the end of the day, everybody has a little different. For a lot, it's acquisition support. We're really big on the acquisitions. We train the acquisition managers.

We bring them in and we really try to indoctrinate them in the best practices to maximize revenue. Right?

Steve: Yeah.

Mark: So for some, it's acquisition support. We in fact, we just had a great, candidate in, Will in Florida who bought a couple territories. And that was what was most attractive to him is he wanted to, you know, leverage our experience with acquisitions. He's an incredibly successful business guy. In fact, he had another business and sold it.

And now he says, alright. Well, if I'm gonna get into real estate, I wanna do it with Joe Homebuyer because I can leverage I can leverage what they know about acquisitions and apply and have my team leverage it as well. Yeah. You know? So it's different for every franchise in terms of what value they get from, specifically from Joe.

Steve: Got it. Alright. So we're gonna answer some questions just real quick, guys. Next month, we got our all day sales training. If you guys are interested, check it out.

It's disruptors.com/salestraining. So Elizabeth Daniels, she says she's a solopreneur, wanna scale up, and have an and she has another VA and now needs another me. Right? So there wasn't a specific question there, but how would you address that? That was on Facebook.

Mark: So she's asking specifically about bringing on another to duplicate herself from a VA.

Steve: And that's like the if if we can figure that out. But what advice do you give to someone like that that's in that situation?

Mark: So if I understand the question correctly, VA's are a special thing. They're just a great I mean, they love the work. They're grateful for it. So bringing on an additional VA or VAs in general is is just a great way to duplicate yourself. And just be methodical about it.

Find somebody that's super talented and shares, you know, interest in helping you build your business and and, you know, making something meaningful for them. So that we have one VA that we've had with us for six years. No kidding. And she's obviously making more now than she was six years ago. And she actually has, a team underneath her that she helps manage for us.

So it's one of those things where you can find some incredible talented people across the the world and provide them meaningful opportunities to work. And they are they can help you even recruit other people that help get things done.

Steve: That's one of the things I've always loved. If you can find a really rock star VA

Mark: Changes.

Steve: They can help you find other rock star VAs.

Mark: Yes.

Steve: So Austin Williams on Instagram wants to know, what is the biggest income driven activity? Because I think that's a great point. We talk about it. Do more income activities. We didn't really qualify.

What what what is an income activity? You wanna share that?

Mark: Yeah. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that too, Steve. I mean, that's a that's a great question. I would tell you so in the Joe Homebuyer world, I have, like, do's and don'ts. And one of the default activities is just action.

Mhmm. Like, take action. Don't don't overthink it. Just action. Right?

And so what is the, you know, ultimately strategic marketing, meaningful strategic marketing. So what does that mean? It it could be web. It could be, prospecting. It could be direct mail, but it's it's strategic marketing is an income generating activity.

You know, getting out, you know, opportunities for the phone to ring. Other activities are just the grassroots. In the early days, that income activity might you might be compelled to just knock on doors, drive for dollars, pin the helms, make phone calls. It's whatever it is that is bringing you closer to your next appointment and in turn your next contract. What are those things that are taking you to your next contract?

And, actually, any of the activities after the contract, working with the title company, all these things, those are not income generating activities. That's no pay time.

Steve: Yeah.

Mark: So it's realizing what are the things that are actually bringing in money.

Steve: Yeah. So I look at it. I I always like to use the tree model. Right? I'm I'm like an apple farmer.

Right? Like, my job, the highest income activity for me is shaking the tree really hard to get all those apples to fall.

Mark: I love

Steve: it. That's the that's the highest income activity. Everyone dealing with escrow and title, they're picking up the apples. They're taking to the farm.

Mark: They're

Steve: juicing it. They're whatever they're doing with it, that's not income activity. That's monetizing what we've Right. Done, our activities. But that is the, the most important activity is shaking the trees, getting the fruits to fall, and then planting the, you know, the seeds, whatever.

That's the marketing. But

Mark: I love it.

Steve: For me, the most important activity is is is closing sales. So being in the living room or that's number one for me, and then number two is prospecting. If you're not prospecting, then forget about it.

Mark: No. In in in the early days of your business, you have to be prospecting. You've gotta learn what it takes to get a deal. Yeah. And you have to have those conversations.

Yeah.

Steve: And you're and it's something I've said before, is that if you're not good prospecting, then you're gonna suck in delivery room.

Mark: Bro, it's so true. And that's the crazy thing. It goes back to that comment before. It's simple but not easy. Nobody wants to do what it takes to succeed.

I shouldn't say nobody. Too frequently, they want to have the 10 or 15 or 20 or $30,000 profit.

Steve: They want the Lambos.

Mark: They want the Lambo, the green one or purple one, whatever's rolling around here in Phoenix. But but are they willing to do the activity to get there? Right? It's so true. It's so true.

Steve: Alright. So, let's see what we have got here. What else was there? So Dom, what should I do if someone wants to sign but won't because they don't know where to go and wants the household? And this is this is Instagram Dom Brandon.

This is a question a lot of people are asking. Yeah. So love to hear your take on this.

Mark: So I love this. Steve, so I don't know if we wanna role play or or just kinda talk through this, but you're the seller. Right? And you're saying, look. I I can't go anywhere.

You know, I I don't know where I can go. So my question to you, Steve, is alright. Well, let me ask you this. And I love this. The if question.

So if we're able to help you find a solution or a place to move to, are you willing to put an agreement together to sell your home? I've gotta start there. Mhmm. Because at the end of the day, is that an excuse you're using? Or are they legitimately I mean, are they really gonna sell their home if we find a solution for that?

And if they can give me a concrete definitive answer that, no, no, we're going to sell if I can find a solution, then you better get in the trenches. We had, no kidding, Corey, Northern Utah franchise, the dude legit put a house under contract with the seller, went into a home, and negotiated a purchase price with the new with the seller of the other home with him Mhmm. Settle on that agreement, and he's putting that seller in that home. You gotta do what it takes to succeed. You gotta go find them a solution.

Because ultimately, with any of these purchase contracts, it could be a home, it could be any type of obstacle. They have to be able to visualize plan b. They have to be able to taste and touch what's going you know, what it's gonna be like to live in the new, or to be able to transition out of the property. Yeah. If you can help them see plan b, you can get plan a done, which is skip the purchase contract.

Steve: Yeah. So and I think that's a good point. You gotta do what it takes, you know. And some and sometimes right now, there maybe there is nothing you can do. You know, I know Salt Lake is a crazy market.

There's not a lot of homes.

Mark: And that's one of the underlying questions there. Right? It's like sometimes there isn't that you can do. But it's also having an honest conversation with them. Look.

I can't get you, you know, this size of home, but here's some alternatives that might work for you, you know, that are within your budget. And, obviously, putting in the the the homework to figure out if you can help them find a solution.

Steve: Yeah. And you gotta be a creative deal maker. You gotta figure that out. And I think, if you can't, you know, you can ask around maybe to some other creative deal makers nearby. But, yeah, that's one of the toughest things right now in this market.

It was a little rougher, obviously, three months ago. I think it's a little bit easier today. So the Certainly. The cash house buyers team wants to know how do you become a part of this franchise? This is on YouTube.

Mark: Oh, I love it. So I'd love to, yeah, visit with you personally and talk with you about, Joe Homebuyer. But you can go to the joeway.com/steve. And, you can definitely check out, we can get you in touch we can get in touch, basically, and and talk with you about, Joe Homebuyer.

Steve: Awesome. Let's see what else is there. You got a fan in Cody Hall Fine, I guess.

Mark: Is he on there? He's on here. Brother?

Steve: Yeah. So you got you got a lot of love here. So Kai Nguyen wants to know, what do you do when a seller finds out how much money you're gonna be making on the wholesale deal?

Mark: That's tough. I like to have a conversation like this as often as I can, Steve. When I'm visiting with the homeowner, I have kind of that tough conversation. You know, mister and mister seller, I appreciate working with you. I also think it's my obligation to tell them that I have multiple exit strategies.

Hey. Look. I might keep this as a rental. I might re rehab this property myself, or I actually might partners with somebody and make money immediately on this. I don't try to explain what an assignment agreement is, but I might partner with somebody immediately and be out of the project, but make money, you know, immediately.

Mister and mister Seller, do you care if I make 2,000 or 200,000? And what way I do it as long as I keep all the terms of this agreement? And almost universally, they say, I hope you make a million dollars, but as long as you keep these terms of agreement. So it's just making sure that you address any potential issue. Hey, if anybody stops by that's not me, don't let them in the home.

I network with lots of people. There's possibility that somebody's gonna stop by and say they wanna buy it and and try to muddy the water. Know that that sort of thing could happen as well. Having these conversations upfront will save you a ton of heartache.

Steve: Yeah. The way I like to describe it in our in our sales process is building a moat around the castle. There you go. Like, no one's getting in.

Mark: Love it.

Steve: We gotta defend this at all costs. Gregory Ballard wants to know, what are some of your tips for hiring an acquisitions agent? Because this is I think a lot of people struggle with this. And we mentioned earlier, it was it's a hard thing. So what are your tips?

So

Mark: I I don't mean to put a plug in there for predictive index. It's a little bit of an investment. We've invested into it with Joe Homebuyer. But the predict are you familiar with predictive index?

Steve: We use it too.

Mark: You love it? Okay.

Steve: It's Absolutely. It's

Mark: incredible tool. Right? And you're assessing the behavioral tendencies and the strengths of your candidates. So it's having a tool like that. A lot of people have heard the Tony Robbins DISC assessment.

It's different because it's more of a, it's not the behavior. It's the

Steve: I think it's just more complete.

Mark: Yes. The predictive index is more complete. Right? And so it's having a tool, though, that you you start to leverage the data consistently where you're saying, alright. Who am I actually hiring?

So first, you need to identify what type of personality traits. That's the difference. Her personality traits versus behavior. And and once you get clear on what type of person you're looking for obviously, I'm looking for somebody that is independent, has the driver mentality. And then as much as important as anything else, I want them to be teachable.

Because what I can't do is I can't hire that guy that is, you know, seasoned sales guy, but isn't a sponge to what I believe to be a very specific way of and successful way of of doing business. Yeah. But how you find them? It it it takes a lot of hustle. So it's it's, you know, networking with people.

It's getting on LinkedIn and reaching out to people. It's almost like finding a seller. It's prospecting. It's doing those activities that are gonna set you up to find people that are in the world that you're, you know, trying to recruit for. I love door to door guys.

Yeah. Or gals. Somebody that has that has been in that transaction.

Steve: One of our best guys. He he was a solar guy. Yeah. Love him. And and Gregory, I mean, this is just a plug.

There was another podcast we did with, Nick Perry. Maybe look back at that one. I think that was really goes into some great detail. But I think the big thing is because it really highlights what you just talked about a moment ago. If you treat finding an acquisition agent like you treat finding a motivated seller, you will find great acquisition agents.

Mark: Yeah. We'll send.

Speaker: But if

Steve: you're gonna post on Craigslist or Facebook and just wait for all those leads to come in, it doesn't work just like it doesn't work for finding a motivated seller.

Mark: So true.

Steve: Yeah. You gotta treat it like you're finding a motivated seller.

Mark: Let's start with your network and then your network's network. Yeah. But you're right. It's all the activity. It's a consistent activity.

Steve: Yep. So let's see if we had anything else. So, Elizabeth Daniel, follow-up question. How do I how to convince an elderly couple to use a contract? They want just a handshake in cash.

She's tried explaining to them for it's for their protection.

Mark: And we Yeah. Okay. So she's got a seller.

Steve: She's got a seller who doesn't wanna sign a document. They just wanna do cash. Okay.

Mark: Elizabeth, I love I I love that your experiences is because you're gonna be a rock star, and you're gonna have success with this, and you're gonna go get this deal done. But I would tell you that, I actually believe that you can navigate this. I would either hop in a car with them, drive them to your title company, and I'm I'm I kid you not. Just think completely outside the box. Help them really get to a place of comfort.

Smell, touch, taste, like, how the the process works. We've actually had a family in the early days. One of my acquisition guys said, Mark, this is a a dude. He willing to sell it to us for $25,000 less than the other company if we don't make him sign something. So we tightened up the the, you know, the the window of closing and we so that we didn't have time go by.

So it was like a in Thursday, Friday, we got title ready. He showed up to title on Monday. And at title, you know, he was able to sign the purchase agreement and the closing documents at the same time, but it was a new setting. He was able to, you know, realize, okay. This is a third party organization.

Place. Incredible place. So you've got to get them to smell, touch, taste, what it feels like to sell. And and worst case scenario, they'll sign it at the time of closing, which is not ideal. Yeah.

We even had to dumb down our agreement with the help of our real estate attorney. So that was literally just one paragraph, and it had the four or five key points. I I mean, that's how bad it was with the I mean, in terms of what his expectation was. Well,

Steve: I love that you came out that that idea, and that's a great answer, for her. What I encourage people to do, and we don't do this often, but every once in a while, there's an ugly document that you need signed in order to close.

Mark: Yep.

Steve: And they're like, how do I present this? How do I do this? How how do I do that? And, like, for me, I tell tell them, stop overthinking it. Just have them sign in a title.

They're signing all these other documents. I mean, you know this from sales. Right? Like, the best way to get someone to sign, like, the fourth page is sign the first three pages. Right?

If they'll sign the first three pages, they have absolutely nothing to do with the contract.

Mark: Right.

Steve: They'll sign the fourth page.

Mark: That's right.

Steve: So I I think that's a great answer. Yeah. Love it. Alright.

Mark: I'm cheering you on, Elizabeth. I I'd love to hear that that goes well. That's awesome.

Steve: I hope that works. And if it works, let us know. Petrovich, Instagram. Can I make it into real estate without banks and wholesaling? I'm from a different country.

So have you helped anyone wholesale outside of The United States?

Mark: I haven't.

Steve: Yeah. I get these questions from that time. I don't really know how to answer that because it's already different from state to state. It is. I can't even imagine a different country.

Mark: You know, I was, in Puerto Rico with my son a few months ago, and, I know they're it's a US territory, so not a third world, you know, type thing. But I will tell you, they had for, you know, cash for or, we buy house signs, as I as we were driving down the road even in Puerto Rico. So I know people are doing it in different parts of the world. I I just don't know enough about it, unfortunately.

Steve: Yep. And then Kavi Josh wants to know on YouTube, are you holding on to any properties long term?

Mark: Absolutely. It makes it incredibly tough right now because the market's so good. Mhmm. And what I mean by that is we'll get a property under contract. And before it even hits my radar as as the integrator, and and, you know, I'm really stepped into the role of visionary in lots of aspects of the business.

But, before it even hits my radar, Steve, it's already out to our cash buyers. And then all of a sudden, it comes to my table, and it's like, okay. What are the what what exit strategy do you wanna execute on here? Do we wanna keep it as a rental? Do we wanna rehab it?

Or do we wanna wholesale it now that we're getting offers on it? And we go into some, and they're like, alright. You know, early stages here, we're gonna make x amount on on an assignment. Why don't we keep this as a rental? And then you have some outlier offer because we work so hard to build a robust business.

Make some crazy offer, and now they talk to me out of keeping it. Yeah. Because it's like, there will be a time and a season, so I'm able to stockpile cash, hopefully, put myself in a really strong financial position so that there's a time and a season I can take on more rentals.

Steve: We had a property, and, it was brought to me. I looked at it, and I'm like, what do you wanna do with this? He was like, I really wanna buy it. I really wanna buy it. It's a really good area.

Speaker: Right.

Steve: Right? And, I was like, I'd be willing to pay a 75 k assignment fee to the company for this. Right? For me to keep it personal, like, in my portfolio, I'm willing to pay the 75 k assignment fee.

Mark: So that your team can be paid and so that's realizes the revenue. Yeah. I got you. Because it's two different companies. Right?

That's right.

Steve: So I feel comfortable with that. And then team comes back and says, hey. We got an offer. We're team's got company's gonna make a 100,000 assignment fee. It's like, I can't match that.

Sell it. We'll give them money. Get it out of my face.

Mark: That's precisely my point. Right now, it's hard. So we do keep a couple every year. We bought it Cody and I took down a duplex recently, some a couple land projects. Yeah.

Land that we're just you know, we know will be worth more and more over time. So, that's not income producing, but we retain some of the our assets or create these assets, with an a payday, down the road. But it's it's hard.

Steve: It is hard right now. So going back to Instagram, Cassie Invest, can you wholesale to your own company? We just kinda touched on it, but you wanna explain your company's process on wholesaling to your own company?

Mark: That that idea of if you keep it.

Steve: Yeah. So for me,

Mark: I just have to pay a commission to my my sales guys. So I don't ever end up realizing the revenue. I don't I don't have my rental, holding company pay an actual assignment fee to, the retail or to the wholesale company. It sounds like you do.

Steve: We do. Yeah.

Mark: I just cover the assignment fee that they would have made. And, but I like what I wanna hear how you do it. So you're actually paying the full fee.

Steve: Full assignment fee. Yeah. I love it. So, you know, my holdings company will actually pay it we're I'm just another buyer. I just get I just get, right of first refusal.

Mark: That's all it is. That's right.

Steve: I get right of first refusal, so I can buy it or someone else can buy it. And I gotta match. Right? It's it's, there's no, favoritism here. Right?

Because if I put myself over the needs of my team, right, because now they're making less commission

Mark: That's never gonna work. That's bad.

Steve: Not good long term business. It can work short term. It's not gonna be good long term business. So yeah. So I pay the full fee because it covers the marketing.

It covers the the commissions that everyone's supposed to make, like, that deservedly make.

Mark: That's right. Right. You're not selling them short at all. They don't get discouraged all when Steve keeps a rental.

Steve: Right.

Mark: They know that they're gonna be compensated the same. That they created that

Steve: value. Sucks. I can't buy as many rentals.

Mark: Because you've got buyers offering ridiculous In

Steve: this market. Absolutely.

Mark: Yeah. Good problem to have.

Steve: It's a great problem to have. So then right now in Salt Lake, how much are you are are you guys wholesaling at the moment?

Mark: So we'll wholesale about 60%. Mhmm. We'll keep five ish, 10%. And then, we're, you know, rehabbing more than we ever have. We have some really reliable connections to take on projects that when I say take on projects, I don't pick paint color.

I I like, I don't do anything, Steve. I don't I just write checks or the team writes checks. Mhmm. It's not a distraction at all. We got to the point where we had some really reliable connections there.

So about, you know, 25 to 30%, are, doing, you know, minor to major rehabs depending on the margins.

Steve: Yeah. So we're gonna talk a little bit about your business. And to be totally clear, this is not Joe Homebuyer numbers.

Mark: Right? Yes.

Steve: Yes. Totally clear.

Mark: Yeah. I cannot quote as a franchisee. Franchisee numbers? Yeah.

Steve: For Mark and Cody

Mark: Yes.

Steve: What is your average fee?

Mark: So right now, with the market as robust as it is, it's as high as it's ever been. Right? And, right now in Utah, we're averaging over $40,000 in revenue. And, again, to to be totally clear, that is not a suggested number that franchisees will make or anything like that. That's specifically what Cody and I do as a partnership in Utah.

Steve: Yep. And how much are you guys spending on marketing at the moment?

Mark: We're we're gonna be between 40 and $50,000 a month between, you know, caller's expense, if you add all those things up. Cost of list, caller's expense, and then direct cost for direct mail and web expense, Facebook, all of those, you you know, expenses.

Steve: And all in all, what is your monthly overhead?

Mark: Monthly overhead, is over a $100,000. It rain it's with overhead. We have a really robust team because, remember, we're the infrastructure support to all the franchisees. So we have a we have a heavy team. I have a general manager.

I have a I have a general manager on operations and a general manager on, for sales Yeah. That oversees both Utah and Texas. Really talented group of people. But because we have such a robust team, yeah, we're about a $120,000 a month before we make a dollar. Yeah.

Steve: So what keeps you moving? I mean, again, Cody, that guy is I think he probably wakes up, probably doesn't drink any caffeine, and he's, like, flying out of bed.

Mark: Right. He

Steve: doesn't need any motivation. Right. What is your why?

Mark: So I have four kids and a beautiful wife who've been married eighteen years. And at the end of the day, I just love spending time with them. Like, my day of a good time is waking up. And imagine if I could just if I didn't have any responsibilities at all, it would be taking my kids to have experiences. So their education would be would be experiences, visiting a part of the world and serving people.

Recently, I actually had an opportunity to go to Puerto Rico. I mentioned briefly about with my son. Mhmm. And it was the perfect balance of co cultural, fun, service. We helped people that had homes damaged from, you know, a couple years ago, hurricane.

And it even had a spiritual element to it, through, the group that we went. But that was my idea of a good time. To be able to I I mean, I went ten days. My business still runs. To be able to spend meaningful, memorable activities with my family, that's my why.

I mean, that's I just love it. And I just my cup gets filled when I go see the world. Like, that's my idea of a good time.

Steve: That's awesome. And then what is your biggest struggle today?

Mark: Business struggle? My, I if it's a personal struggle, I was gonna say that, I really like sweets, and I, eat like a you would think that I'd be a lot heavier than him because I I love food. That's my personal struggle. Sweet tooth. Sweet tooth.

Yeah. No. But from a business struggle, it's, you know, learning when to, you know, turn it off. I I'm one of those guys that, like, go go go go. Right?

It's it's knowing that, you know, trusting the team probably. I'm probably a a little bit of a, a guy that wants to have my hands and everything.

Steve: Mhmm.

Mark: And, I'm really being challenged as a leader to let my guy you know, the team, the quality people do their thing. But we're scaling. We're heavily in scaling mode with all the franchisees, and that's definitely a struggle, a challenge, but welcomed and exciting.

Steve: Yeah. I'm trying to remember who was on the show very recently. And he was saying, like, he was complaining. He was like, why is this all screwed up? And the response from the team was, it's because you went in there, which is the problem that we run into as business owners.

Mark: That's right.

Steve: Every once in a while, we go in there, and now it's like, oh, crap. And then this is cash home house buyers team. If someone has a franchise of Joe Homebuyer, can they still do their own buy and holds?

Mark: Yes. Absolutely. We don't discourage that, at all.

Steve: You know what? Actually, I looked at home investors many, many years ago. I would have been there was two people in Phoenix at the time. Right? Because we had the recession.

Everyone stopped. Yeah. You know, Homevestors franchise basically died. Subway rescued it. I don't know if you know that story.

Mark: I didn't know that. No.

Steve: Yeah. So Subway is the one that actually bought out, you know, their model to rescue us.

Mark: They said They had a group come in.

Steve: Yeah. So it was Subway, and then they moved on and sold it to someone else.

Speaker: I would

Steve: have been the number three franchisee, right, in Phoenix back in 2012.

Mark: Interesting.

Steve: Because they you know, again, they went from, like, 25 to two. And they're trying to get me in. I was like, I'll do this, but I need to be able to do my own deals because I'm already wholesaling well, you guys. Like, why would I do this? Right.

And that was the the one thing is, like, they're like, no. It doesn't matter where you got it got it from. You have to pay as a franchise. He's like, well, I'm not doing this.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: I'm out of here. Yeah. So, obviously,

Mark: we don't wanna discourage franchisees from building their own long term wealth. And so, no, you can keep properties. There's a lot of autonomy with our system. You do your own marketing. You're not limited on, and, again, I I don't wanna speak for home investors, but the we really designed our model so there was a lot of autonomy both with marketing so that you could have you know, create really leverage all our experience and success, but really create your own business that can thrive independently.

And to me, thriving means that you're becoming as balanced and successful financially as possible as well. And obviously, keeping rentals is a major part of that.

Steve: Yep. What is your superpower?

Mark: Dude, I saw this question. I knew you were gonna ask me this. I'm like, what is my superpower? And, I for some reason, I I default to, my family. Like, I just love being around them.

And if my superpower is, I have three daughters and giving them a hard time and just, hanging out with them is I don't know if that's a superpower, but I I think I sure hope that my four kids, my my fourth being my oldest son, know that, that they mean a lot to me. And and I don't know. That's probably a cheesy answer. But the truth is, when I thought of this question, like, what is my superpower? We like to surf together.

There's my superpower. We like to surf behind a boat. Mhmm.

Steve: So

Mark: in Utah, we don't have an ocean. So we've gotta we gotta hop on a boat, to surf. And, that's my superpower. We can do some pretty fun tricks, on a wake surfboard.

Steve: Do you annoy and irritate your kids?

Mark: Dude, I'm the best at it. That's what I'm seeing. That's my that you summarized it well. That's what I'm saying. I can

Steve: Well, because, like, my kids ask, like, why do you always bother? I was like, it's my job. Like, I'm your dad.

Mark: I love it. My daughter started kindergarten today, and I was given a hard time about, hey, school got canceled. They I wish I could tell you that you could be there today. And she's like, dad, this is, like, the third time. You know, I told her she couldn't go because the the teacher called and canceled school.

Again, she knows that I'm just bluffing her because she's so excited about school starting, but that's my job, man.

Steve: Yeah. It's it's it's what we were made to do.

Mark: That's right.

Steve: What is the greatest lesson that you have learned?

Mark: That, really becoming a successful business owner is about personal development. Like, at the end of the day, we owe it to ourselves to become the best versions of ourself. Matthew Kelly has that book. Well, look it up. Matthew Kelly.

Why is the name slipping my mind? But it it the premise of the book is becoming the best version of of yourself. And I've shared the author's name, and so definitely look into that. But I'm convinced that that's one of the most valuable lessons I've learned is that we're I mean, from a spiritual sense, and I don't know how deep we wanna go there, but I actually do believe that we're intentionally on Earth for the purpose of making a difference. And if I can become the best version of myself as a husband, father, business owner, and I can do, you know, give back, do different things like that.

And obviously, I've got a long way to go. I'm not you know? But, you know, what am I doing to just refine myself? You know? And life's life's to be enjoyed as well.

But it's it's what am I doing to I'm learning that developing as a leader is is absolutely critical to being a successful business owner.

Steve: And then that journey never ends.

Mark: It never ends. Yeah. But it's a fun journey.

Steve: It's a fun journey.

Mark: Stop to enjoy it. Right? Yeah.

Steve: Absolutely. What is your favorite, best, or most interesting failure?

Mark: Most interesting or favorite failure? Dude, I love that question. I would have to tell you, we had a, a, property that, well, I'm trying to think my most interesting I mean, Steve, I really wants this to be like a it's the end of the podcast. I gotta have something super interesting. Well, this one, pot property that I'm thinking of, it fell apart on us pretty quick in the sense that, it needed to have an entirely new waterline put in.

And for us, the experience of just realizing that we're not invincible. And, I mean, I was convinced I'm never gonna lose, money on a property because I'm just gonna be super prudent with the numbers. I'm gonna crush them all of this. And we learned pretty quick that you do enough deals, you'll lose money. And we never could afford you know, saw that coming.

That it needs an entirely new water line. But I'm talking like hundreds of yards out to the street. It was on a private road. We be it became pretty clear pretty quick that, you're not invincible and, that you're gonna learn from some of these. And and, unfortunately, that means lose money at at some point.

Steve: How much did you lose on that one?

Mark: Actually, we ended up only losing, like, $7 because the margin started out pretty, pretty, beautifully. But the biggest loss really was time. Yeah. Unfortunately, is, more than anything, the distraction was the killer. It was a big distraction.

Steve: We've had some properties, like, should we have made that much money? Probably not. But because the project took longer, and right now, this market is appreciating like crazy, like, it covers up your mistakes.

Mark: It does.

Steve: Yeah. Is there a book you've gifted more than any other?

Mark: Leading an Inspired Life by Jim Rohn.

Steve: Love that guy.

Mark: Isn't that incredible? That book's incredible too. It's like nuggets just throughout. It's written in a format that is, like, incremental little paragraphs or one or two pages. So you can pick it up, and within five minutes a day, you can grasp a concept without having to feel like you have to read cover to cover Yeah.

Like in yeah.

Steve: And it it's it's fascinating because he is, you know, Darren Hardy's mentor, right, who is my mentor. He's Tony Robbins. Like, Tony Robbins used to work for him as a teenager. Like, this guy made massive ripples

Mark: Right.

Steve: In the personal development world. It's amazing what he's accomplished.

Mark: And wasn't he just like a normal dude? Like

Steve: He was a normal salesperson who just had a knack for telling stories. Kinda like Zig Ziglar. Yeah. Right? But he could explain a difficult concept, or not even a difficult concept.

He he can make a concept sound really simple and funny. Yep. Right? So, you know, Gary Vee talks about if you can be funny and educational, then, you know, you you're gonna have massive, impact. You know, you'll have ton of followers, whatever.

Mark: Yeah.

Steve: Jim Rohn was funny and educational. He's incredible. He was incredibly. So, I want you to think about what you wanna leave the listeners with while I make a quick a few quick announcements. Guys, if you get value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment.

That helps the algorithm, and it helps algorithm reach more people, and we can create a 100 millionaires. We do have our all day sales training coming up September 24. If you're interested, go to disruptors.com/salestraining. And next week, we got my buddy Sam Primm coming in. He's gonna talk about how he's built a real estate empire with other people's money, right, which is the best way to do it because you're not jeopardizing your own money.

So what are some of the last thoughts you want to leave listeners with?

Mark: Well, I just I love that, and applaud your listeners for investing time to to, build in the future and listening to this podcast. I love that, you said a 100 millionaires. Yeah. That's ex I mean, this this journey that you're putting people on, I mean, that's exciting. So, I mean, if I were to put a bow on anything I I said today is, just I'm excited for people's journey.

I'm excited that they can, you know, see the fruits of their labors. I just feel fortunate to have found real estate. You know, I wish I could say that the success success of Joe Homebuyer is exclusively because of the great people and the team. No. It's we tapped into an incredible vehicle Mhmm.

Speaker: Of

Mark: real estate. I just feel so fortunate to be real estate, applaud, and encourage people to just stick with it. Like, at the end of the day, if you can stay with it, it can be an incredibly rewarding thing for you and your family. And it's worth it. It's worth the sacrifice.

It's worth the hard work. And, and a plug for you that I mean, this is an incredible platform. I mean, the people that you put on the show Mhmm. That can share these insights. Like, if and you've I mean, you made that declaration at the beginning of this call.

If you listen to this podcast, you will be successful if you go out and implement. And I I'll just, compliment that confident, declaration that I believe that to be true.

Steve: With consistency.

Mark: With consistency.

Steve: Which is what you say was the biggest challenge for most entrepreneurs.

Mark: Yes.

Steve: Consistency. How can someone find out more about you, Joe Homebuyer, whatever?

Mark: Yes. Definitely visit us at the joeway.com/steve. Awesome. Joeway.com. Yep.

Steve: Thank you very much.

Mark: Hey, my man. Thank you.

Steve: Love lot of fun. Thank you guys for watching. See you all next week.

Mark: Thank you.

Speaker: Nobody touch us, and, yeah, we about to give you game.

Speaker: Shout out to Steve Tran. Real estate disruptors. They cannot touch us, and

Speaker: yet we about to give you game.

Speaker: Shout out to Steve Trane. Jump on the Steve Trane.

Speaker: We about to give you game. REI's flowing through my veins, and

Speaker: Shout out to Steve Train. Jump on the Steve Train. We real estate disrupt

Speaker: us.

Speaker: Yeah. See, we real estate disrupt us.

Speaker: Ain't nobody touch us, and, yeah, we about to give you game.

Speaker: Shout out to Steve Trane. Real estate disruptors. They cannot touch us, and, yeah, we

Speaker: about to give you game.

Speaker: Shout out to Steve Train. Jump on the Steve Train.

Speaker: We get about to give you game. Already eyes flowing through my veins, and you don't have to look.