Making $1Million per year using Driving for Dollars!

Steve Trang: Episode of Real Estate Disruptors. So we've got Zach Booth with Pinpoint Sales, and he flew in from Layton, Utah to talk about how he brings in a million dollars per year driving for dollars. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trainor, sales trainer for some of the top wholesalers in the country, and I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires. One question I get all the time is how do I become one of the 100 millionaires? The information on this podcast alone is enough.

Tell me to become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you will take consistent action, you will become one. If you wanna get there faster, send me a message on Instagram, and we'll see if we can help you. And this show is brought to you by Investor List. So if you wanna get access to over 2,000,000 cash buyers across the country, go to investorlift.com and put in disruptors to get 10% off.

If you get value out of the show, please tag them below or share this episode right now. That way we can all grow together. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Zach to answer. You ready?

Zach Booth: I'm ready.

Steve: Alright. So first question is what got you into real estate?

Zach: It was a way to get out of window cleaning, honestly.

Steve: No. Anything at that time?

Zach: Yeah. I mean, really anything to to get out of it. The the big thing actually was I grew up, I grew up working. You know, my dad, cut me off financially when I was 16, you know, but I had been working for the family, my lawn mowing business after school and after work from time I was 11. So I remember when I was 14 years old, we were mowing lawns after, you know, after school and after my dad's day job.

And I remember asking my dad, like, why do we mow other people's lawns? Why are they not mowing our lawns? You know, why do they have these giant mansions and we don't? And, my dad's like, I don't know. Ask my rich friend, and His name was Clint Sherman.

And so Clint has a bunch of rentals still to this day. I actually went fishing with him in Alaska this summer. He has a couple 100 doors. And, I remember asking my dad, so he doesn't have money. He drives a beat up old truck.

You know, he's like, No, son, he has money. He's just cheap. I'm like, oh, okay. So I asked him, and he introduced Rich Dad, Poor Dad. The book

Steve: was gonna say this sounds a little bit like Rich Dad, Poor

Zach: Dad. Exactly right. And then he introduced me to that book. So when I was 14, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So already at 14, my little brain started going, okay, how do I own my own business?

How do I take control of my own finances? Right? How do I not be broke? And, that kind of put me on the journey of becoming an entrepreneur at 17 and starting my first business. And, ultimately, I bought my first duplex, when I was in my very early twenties.

It's 2021, almost '22. So in 2012, I bought my first rental.

Steve: So you said your dad cut you off when you're 16. Was this by design, or did you do something?

Zach: Design, actually. Yeah. So my dad, he was raised in pretty rough situation. You know, he told me stories of borrowing for asking his neighbors for food to feed his younger siblings.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: So his real dad was a gambler and alcoholic. His stepdad was a Korean war vet, saw battle. I'm sure PTSD and and so forth and a pretty abusive situation. So my dad from a very, very young age was on his own, that my mom and, kind of changed the family. You know, he was very much their present and a loving father.

He was very stern. You know, I bet. Yeah, he was very, very stern man. He didn't take crap. He didn't.

It was his way or the highway. Very much. We respect our father or you die. Mhmm. And, but it's a good thing.

You know, he raised us to work. And so when I was 16, he considered me a man. He said, okay, you're in charge of taking care of everything. He's like, well, you don't have to pay for food. You don't have to pay for housing.

You get $200 a year for clothing and the rest is on you. And he wouldn't even cosign a loan to buy a truck. Yeah. So if you want a truck, you'll find the cash like I did.

Steve: Right.

Zach: And so, you know, I was, you know, when I was 15, I'd I'd stopped working for the family business. Started What

Steve: was the family business?

Zach: Family business was lawn mowing and yard maintenance. And so I did

Steve: And the window cleaning was what?

Zach: Window cleaning was my own design. It was it was a way to quit trading time for money. So by the time I was 17 and started that window cleaning business, I had, you know, I'd worked in Nova Scotia, Canada in the summer, eighty hour work weeks to come up with the cash to buy my first truck, start my first business. So

Steve: you started a business at 17 years old?

Zach: 17. Yeah. Wow. So I have my first employee when I was 17. My senior year in high school, I was writing off my own work release hours.

You know, I couldn't sign a business license and get licensed and insured and bonded and everything to get to larger contracts until I was 18 years old. And my dad wouldn't even sign papers with me and use his name or his Social Security because of the the potential risks to his financial situation. So on my eighteenth birthday, I went and got my business. That's what I did for my birthday as I got my first business license so I could get the larger contracts with banks and credit unions and dealerships and get route work and that kind of stuff. So, yeah, when I was I was 17 years old, I was already sick of working for the man.

You know, I had made handcrafted cheese, freight houses

Steve: or going to high school.

Zach: Yeah. Going to school is a pain in my butt. Right. Because it was I didn't get paid. Actually, I did get paid.

My dad realized that if if he wanted me to get good grades, he had to pay me. So I got $5, an a minus $10 an a and I got nothing if I got anything under a B plus. So I got a nine, nine or what is it, a 3.97 GPA. I got all A's and one A minus all through high school because I got paid.

Steve: Right.

Zach: And it wasn't because I was smart. It wasn't because I was a good student. I got really good at talking the teachers into feeling sorry for me enough to give me an A. I mean, there was

Steve: a pretty good argument there.

Zach: Yeah. I was like, I really want to get into a good college. I had zero interest in going to college, but I wanted my $10.

Steve: So you were saying that you were doing cottage. What was that? All those other things you did? I Still in high school?

Zach: Yeah. I made handcrafted cheese. Worked for, like, a a cheese company called Beehive Cheese. I did taxidermy, at nights. So, like, skinning ducks and crazy stuff for taxidermy.

Wow. Yeah. That was that was a nasty job. I did finish carpentry. I framed houses, in the summers.

I did I worked in a wood mill. I worked a big glue machine, you know, where you clamp all the pieces of wood together.

Steve: So you knew you weren't going to college?

Zach: I did go to college for a time.

Steve: Okay.

Zach: And I I was I didn't know what I was gonna do.

Steve: I'm asking this because you don't know me at first. We don't have a lot of people starting their businesses at 17. Right? I think

Zach: Yeah.

Steve: Willie Coleman we have on the show, like, he came here when he was 18 years old. He already done, like, a whole bunch of houses.

Zach: That's cool.

Steve: But besides him, most people aren't working legally in high school Yeah. For themselves. Then you go no one that I I know of has ever started a business and then went to college.

Zach: Yeah. I I was trying to do both. I was trying to do both. So I started the business when I was 17. I ran that for a couple years.

I got it up to a couple trucks and a couple employees. I had to put everything on hold because I chose to serve a Christian mission. So I went down to Sao Paulo, Brazil. I learned Portuguese and I lived in Brazil for two years. I actually met my wife down there and so when I came home I was dealing with immigration.

I was dealing with paying all those attorney fees and dealing with the the nightmare that the immigration process really is in this country and, going to school, going to college, and growing my my window cleaning business. And so doing all of those It was

Steve: still intact after those two years?

Zach: I've basically, I put all my clients on hold and put the clients back together. So it was it was tough, man. I I, I was working a lot.

Steve: Yeah. So A lot. You go on your mission. It didn't sound like it was much later after you got back that you said you bought your first duplex around '21, 22 years old?

Zach: Yeah. I bought it only about nine months after I got home.

Steve: So at this point now, you're officially out of college?

Zach: Yeah. Yeah. I dropped out by that point.

Steve: Okay. So let's talk about that first deal. How did you find that first deal?

Zach: So that first deal was actually listed on the MLS. So this was, you know, 2,012. There's a lot of banks unloading their foreclosures. Mhmm. So timing was good for me, and I thought I was really smart.

I didn't know what the heck I was doing, but I was able to find this duplex for, dollars 60,000, had standing water in the basement, had termites, it was a nightmare, smelled horrible. And I told the the real estate agent I said the stinkier the better. I had construction experience, I wasn't afraid of hard work, so I went in myself and did the the remodel. So I remodeled the upstairs in just a couple weeks on my own at nights basically while I was running my business. We moved into the upstairs and then I went to work on the basement at nights and so forth And, I was able to rent the basement for about $750 a month and my monthly payment including escrow is about 450.

So not only did I live for free but I got paid to live there.

Steve: Yeah.

Zach: So I got it. I got a taste of that. And I said that's much easier money than window cleaning.

Steve: That's the house hacking. Sure. And when you say we that's you and your wife at this time?

Zach: Me and my wife. Yep.

Steve: Gotcha.

Zach: Knew that

Steve: we're married. So you found off the MLS realtor, brought it to you, and it was pretty seamless.

Zach: Yeah. It was seamless. You know, it was cool because I got a grant as well. So my down payment of $5,000 was a free grant from the government for a

Steve: first time home buyer. First time home buyer.

Zach: First time home buyer. Yeah. So I was like, man, I'm so smart. Let's do this again. I thought I had cracked the code and I was the smartest guy on the planet.

Well, then the bank said, okay, well, you want another investment, Zach. Well, you need to put 25% down.

Steve: Well,

Zach: I didn't have 25% to put down. And then plus my debt to income ratios and you know, buying and the prices of houses kept going up. Right? And so it just kept having more and more roadblocks to get into real estate investing beyond that. We we were able to house hack another one and move into another one, but it was forcing me to keep moving.

And then my wife got pregnant. We weren't it wasn't planned. House hacking and living with tenants wasn't a fun thing anymore for my wife. Sure. So there was just kept becoming more and more problems to getting into real estate investing.

There's just more and more obstacles. And I really started hating more and more window cleaning. So there had to be there had to be a way to transition. I wanted out, but I didn't really know how.

Steve: So what did you do?

Zach: Tom Kroll and Cody Hoffine came into my life.

Steve: Gotcha.

Zach: So, I learned about real estate wholesaling. Right? The concept that I could do some marketing. I could find properties at a massive discount. And I said, this is it.

I could have cash. I could have lots of cash to take care of my family, grow a business, but then I would have a business that the business is generating deeply discounted deals. So I was like, this is perfect. I cherry pick the best, sell the rest.

Steve: How'd you hear about wholesaling?

Zach: Couple places heard about it in a podcast. I said, well, I don't wanna do that. I wanna hold properties. So but that was kind of like the first thought process, and then there was you know, once you start looking into it, everyone pops up in your ads. They follow you everywhere.

Forever. Forever. Yeah. So I got on the email list and so forth, started hearing about it. But then I met Cody Hoffine at a RIA meeting in Utah.

So I'm from Utah. If you don't know, Cody Hofhein is everybody. He was, one of the people that owned and and grew wholesaling inc.

Steve: Mhmm. They

Zach: have a great podcast, like wholesaling inc. So I became a rhino. Right? I I joined their program, their coaching program under Tom Kroll and Cody Hofhein.

Steve: And when was this approximately?

Zach: This this was at the very beginning of 2017, not too long ago.

Steve: So really not long ago at all. I mean, five years.

Zach: Five years.

Steve: Five short years.

Zach: Yeah. It's changed my life. Yeah. You know? And so I had done a handful of deals.

I tried flipping some houses. There's there's more to the story, but, you know, I just it was just roadblock roadblock. Lose money on a flip roadblock. It's just

Steve: So you you did face multiple adversities and not just the challenge of living with tenants with the pregnant or with kids.

Zach: Sure.

Steve: It was you did try to do this on your own.

Zach: Oh, yeah.

Steve: And there were other challenges.

Zach: Oh, I made so many mistakes. I threw away so much money.

Steve: What were some of the biggest mistakes?

Zach: Oh, shoot. I signed it. I signed a $30,000 contract with a digital marketing company for Facebook ads to generate leads. Not only did I not do a deal off of it, but I never got a lead for $30,000. So Wow.

$15 in, no leads. I had to cancel the contract, But if I canceled, I had to pay the remaining 50% that was owed. So I ended up losing, like, 20 something thousand dollars on that one. Ouch. I joined another coach before Cody and Tom that was just a big package of information.

Steve: Mhmm. It was

Zach: just selling information. It wasn't, hey, here's the action steps. Here's the outline. That was a big mistake. That was $10.

So I made a lot of mistakes in the journey. It wasn't just like, oh, boom, overnight success.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: I'm kinda glad it wasn't cause I appreciate it more. Yeah. But it yeah. It was definitely a struggle to to get to where I'm at.

Steve: So you hear about Wholesaling Inc. You sign up for Tom and Cody's program. Yep. And then what happened after you signed up?

Zach: Yep. So I signed up in February 2017, very beginning. And I was trying to run a window cleaning company. And, you know, I had three trucks, 13 employees, a business partner. It was busy.

I was working overtime hours.

Steve: So what kind of margins are there in

Zach: windows? 15%.

Steve: 15%? Yeah. How much overhead did you have?

Zach: A lot. I mean, when I sold it, we did, like, a half 1,000,000 that year in in in gross revenue.

Steve: Gross revenue, which you got to take home how much?

Zach: Well, we made about a $150

Steve: Yeah.

Zach: Right, or so. But I had to split that with a business partner. So I was making $50.60 grand a year. Yeah. It was a little

Steve: bit different of a business model than we have today.

Zach: Yes. Yes. And and and the other thing too is no one wanted to be a window cleaning technician. So I washed a lot of windows even when I had employees. I mean, my shoulder still pops from my rotator cuff, that constant motion.

You know, it was a great experience. I learned how to lead people. I ended up on the History Channel because of it. I mean, you can find my window cleaning tutorials. I actually put together, like, how to window cleaning videos for my technicians.

So I don't have to teach them one on one every single time I had turnover because there's a lot of turnover. They don't wanna be there forever. Mhmm. But I ended up on the History Channel because of it. I've got some YouTube videos with millions and millions of views from it.

Steve: So why were you on the History Channel?

Zach: Yeah. So the History Channel basically did a documentary on how YouTube you can learn everything and the phenomenon of YouTube.

Steve: Got it.

Zach: And they took one of my clips on how to wash windows and used it.

Steve: It's gonna say because I don't think it's like a strong history of window cleaning. Yeah. Okay. So Yeah. You're trying to wholesale while you're running your full time business.

And

Zach: And it was a struggle. Right? Doing both is a struggle. Implementing the action steps was a struggle. Plus I What was

Steve: your schedule like on that time?

Zach: Wake up, work, go to sleep.

Steve: But I'm asking this because there are people that are listening that are either working a nine to five Yeah. Or maybe they have multiple hustles. So what were they doing? Or what were you what what was your schedule like as far as waking up? How much is that is dedicated to window cleaning business and so on?

Zach: Yeah. So I'd I'd wake up and, I would go and get the technicians off to to work and, you know, when I was just doing the window cleaning, I would work till about three or four with the technicians and everything else. And then I would go do door to door sales myself and work with the door to door sales employees that I had if I had any at that time. And so or service leads that had come in and and close those. So I a lot of times I'd work till seven or 08:00 at night.

That was just a normal thing for me. That's what I had to do. I built a half $1,000,000 business with pretty much all my own door to door sales.

Steve: And

Zach: when I wanted to do this real estate thing, I found myself not having time. I was doing both of them horribly. And so

Steve: Normally it goes, by the way, for you guys listening, when you have two hustles. Yeah. That's what happens.

Zach: It became an issue. And, you know, I had a business partner that I had brought in. We had different visions and, you know, I spent way more time in the business than he did. And it was it was kind of an issue. And so I actually went to him on my birthday, 03/02/2017.

I sat down with him at lunch and I said, I quit. I said, I'm gonna do real estate wholesaling, and I'm gonna I'm gonna make a lot of money.

Steve: March. So this is two months after or one month after you sign up for wholesaling, Inc.

Zach: Yeah. Because I wasn't I wasn't doing the work. Yeah. Not not like I wanted to. Yeah.

I was doing the work. I found time. But I

Steve: But I'm just saying, like, as far as time frame goes, about a month after you signed up for the course.

Zach: Yeah. A month after I said, okay, I can't do both. Yeah, it's not working. And I want

Steve: you realize quickly and you burn the boats.

Zach: Yep. I burned the boat. So I went to my business partner. I said, I quit. I said, if there's if there's profits, great.

If there's not okay, I would love for you to buy the company from me completely. Cash me out. I'm done.

Steve: I

Zach: don't want to do this anymore.

Steve: And how that conversation go?

Zach: He told me I was crazy. He told me you've never wholesaled a deal. It's just a scam. You won't be successful, basically.

Steve: Things that are people that we train and teach often here.

Zach: Yeah. That's that's, you know, the outside world that doesn't exist. Right? Because they've never done it.

Steve: So he's trying to talk you out of it as a friend or as a business partner? Both. Okay. Both. But you're is still was an amicable separation after that?

Zach: Yeah. Yeah. It was. And, you know, he ended up cashing me out and which was nice. But at the time, I only had a couple of months till I'd go broke.

Steve: I

Zach: had a couple of months. That's it. And most of my marketing was going on credit cards. I mean, broke, meaning I couldn't pay my mortgage with the cash that I had saved up. So I was nervous.

I was afraid, but I believed in Tom and Cody, and I believed in the program. I I believed that they had the outline and the steps, and I was gonna make it happen or I was going to fail.

Steve: Well, either way,

Zach: either way, I was going for it.

Steve: So how long until your first deal that way?

Zach: April. April 17 or sixteenth. Just a month. Just a month later, I did my first deal. And I made $10.

Right. My coaching program was $9 with them, and I had a bunch of money on credit cards and I had, you know, I wasn't profitable, but it was proof of concept. Right. But within the end of that fiscal year, so about eight months, I did around $113,000 in wholesale fees

Steve: and

Zach: I was profitable and I had made more money from wholesaling that year than I was going to make from window cleaning.

Steve: So let's talk about that very first deal. What actions did you take to source that first deal?

Zach: Yeah. So I did exactly what my coach has told me. Right. That was the that was the greatest part. A good coach will say, do this and don't question me, just implement.

So I did what they told me to do. So I bought a list from a company called ListSource. Right? So at the time, you know, that was great. A lot of people now use PropStream.

It's similar to PropStream. Right? If you don't know what ListSource is, you know, the audience, I know you know what it is. And so I bought this list and it was a a list of potential sellers. It's it's just homeowners that might want to sell their property.

It's they have high equity. And so I followed the filters that they gave me. I pulled this list and I started sending postcards.

Steve: I

Zach: got a call from a seller that lived out of state, and his business partner also lived out of state and they didn't want to deal with it. They had owned over a 100 rental properties together and it was their business partnership had gone sour. It was their last rental property, said, Hey, I know I'm giving it to you to deal, but I don't even care anymore. It's our last one. So I was like, Okay, this sounds right.

He says, We'll sell it to you for 80,000. I said, Okay. I knew nothing. Said, Okay, let's do it. So I signed the contract.

I had to figure out DocuSign. We signed the contract and I had done what my coaches had told me, which is build your cash buyers list first.

Steve: I

Zach: had found a guy at an auction and he had a ten thirty one tax exchange. He would as he was a motivated buyer because he needed to move money for tax purposes. If I wouldn't have done that, I wouldn't have found a buyer. Every other buyer said I'm $20.30 grand too high. But I had a motivated buyer just like a motivated sellers, and I made $10.

He was the only person interested, but I made $10 on the deal.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. So you said something about you did exactly what the coaches told you to do or your coach told you to do. Yep. So there's something, you know, to be said for actually following instructions as given.

So I've coached so many people in my career. I'm not trying to brag here. I'm just this has been my experience

Zach: Sure.

Steve: As a mentor. And there are people that will follow and do exactly what you tell them to do. They'll execute it, have massive success, come back and tell you, hey. I did what you told me to do. It worked and I made this much money.

Thank you. Yep. Right? My favorite people to mentor. Then you got, like, the other 95% who will question you, challenge you, or re engineer it somewhere from when you said it until they hit their ears.

And then from their ears execution, either don't do it or they re engineer it.

Zach: 100%.

Steve: How did you resist not reinventing the wheel?

Zach: I trusted Cody and Tom. Got it. Trusted them.

Steve: All makes sense. You quit your business.

Zach: I believe I believed in him. So, you know, I'm a coach as well. And that same issue that you mentioned is an issue that I found. And they wanted to reinvent. They want to do a hybrid of what I say and what someone else says.

And I couldn't help them become successful because they wouldn't follow through. Yeah. So, you know, that's why I did the forty day challenge is I needed my students to trust me and believe in me and my and and trust the process that I gave them as much as I trusted Tom and Cody. Mhmm. Because I knew if they would do that, they would follow the action steps.

They would do the work. They would do the hard things. They would invest the money in the marketing that I asked them to. Right? And if they would do that, then they would be successful.

Right? And so I I needed to give them something that they could trust and believe and see that it was real. Right? And Tom and Cody gave that to me. Cody was in my market.

I saw him doing deals. Right? I knew that he was making money. I knew of his reputation. And then I also saw the success of hit their students on their podcast and so forth.

Steve: I guess that makes sense. Seeing Cody in your backyard definitely gave you proof of concept.

Zach: 100%.

Steve: Is that ability to follow instructions I mean, I'm not saying you have to follow instructions perfectly forever. Right? I mean, that's something that, you know, going back to my poker background, I learned how to play poker the right way. And after I learned how to play poker the right way, now you can add creativity to it. But most people wanna have fun and variance and this and that, and they'll never do it the right way so they can never build a foundation.

Zach: Yep.

Steve: Is this something with you where you naturally want to learn to do things the right way, maybe something you learned from your dad and then add your flavor? Or is that something you did because you had so much faith in Tom and Cody?

Zach: Oh, I did it because of the faith. So I think entrepreneurs were pretty creative.

Steve: Yes, we are.

Zach: Right. We like to hustle. We like the challenge. We like the the new thing, the excitement of the deal as much as the money. Mhmm.

And so, no, it's not my natural tendency to follow directions. Just ask any of my teachers. Right? He's a horrible student. Horrible student.

But, yes, my my belief in them. So so Tony Robbins, I think, teaches it better than I could. He talks about the cycle of success.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: He talks about that success doesn't come from action. Success comes from a massive belief. Faith in in the process. But you can't have a massive belief in something unless you've already experienced or tasted.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: Right? But if you start off with a massive belief and massive amount of faith, you're gonna give a massive amount of action. You give a massive amount of action where you're gonna get desirable results. If you get desirable results, you'll be like, see, I knew. And you're gonna spiral upwards in the world.

And the opposite is true as well. If you start with a lack of belief and you give a half hearted effort, you're gonna get, you know, undesirable More

Steve: as the half hearted results.

Zach: Yeah. Yeah. And then you're gonna spiral downwards. You'll be like, see, I knew everyone was right. It is a scam.

Mhmm. And it

Steve: It's a vicious cycle either way. Or it's a cycle either way. It's either positive

Zach: Exactly.

Steve: Or vicious. I I I learned a new term very recently. The the was it the doom? Wow. Gloom doom.

Dang it. Just heard it recently. I'm I'm I'm checking out his new book about, mimetic desires. Right? Anyway, sidetrack.

So, you went and executed the system and you learned a lot of this and you had a more profitable year wholesaling in your very first incomplete year Yeah. Than you would've washing windows.

Zach: Sure.

Steve: But then you did something different or you pivoted.

Zach: Yes. I pivoted from there.

Steve: So what was the pivot?

Zach: Pivot was, very beginning of 2018. The first two months, I didn't get a deal. So leads are dried up. It's my only source of revenue. I have a family depending on me.

And what had happened is I had found success in some of the lists that Tom and Cody suggested me to use. But some of those lists were now public records on a statewide website. It was easier to get access to it. So now everyone's investing to the same lists that I was making money off of.

Steve: Got it. So this list was a little bit more proprietary and then became public records.

Zach: Exactly. Got it. So I found a niche, a way to go and get it from individual cities, but now it's on a state website. Super easy to access. You could access it every week.

A VA could pull up for these marketing companies. So now these awesome giant companies like Cody and Mark. Right? Cody's business in Utah, they have tens of thousands of dollars to spend each week, and I didn't.

Steve: Right.

Zach: And so I was getting crushed. I I was struggling, and I was like, okay. I need something that can put leads in my business. So I started researching what is something that I can control and own that no one else will have. Mhmm.

What's a list that I can scale and grow as my marketing budget scales and grows? And the only thing that I could find was driving for dollars.

Steve: Well, hang on. Before we get to drive for dollars, so you had to pivot. This is around the time that you you combine forces to Cody.

Zach: Well, the the only reason I I joined forces with Cody was I wanted, my my uncle always told me in a Cajun accent, he would joke around. He say, you gotta earn and learn, young man. You gotta earn and learn, you know? And so I was like, okay. Well, I'm gonna go, you know, Cody and Mark, they had posted they were looking for an acquisition manager.

Steve: And Mark is?

Zach: Mark is Cody Hofhein's business partner in the wholesaling business in Utah. Mark Stubler.

Steve: Okay. So I'm at I'm I'm I'm bringing this up because for you guys, you know, guys we have two episodes of Cody and one episode of Mark. So if you wanna

Zach: go back stud.

Steve: You guys wanna go back and watch those episodes, You guys are welcome to. Okay. So Yeah.

Zach: Love love Mark Stubler, dude. Mark Stubler taught me about how to negotiate wholesale deals. Yeah. He's a he's a he's a hidden gem in the industry, honestly. So, anyways, I as I go, this is awesome.

And And I went to Mark and Cody and said, I would love to be your acquisition manager. I have proof of concept. I've closed deals. I can sell. I can hustle.

And I committed to work for them for a year and they knew and understood that I was also gonna be doing it on the side as well. Yeah. Like, fine. That's fine. After three months, they said, Zach, we love you.

We want you full time. We want you to shut off your own business and work for us full time. What would you say? It's like, well, that wasn't part of the agreement. They're saying, well, what if we changed our mind and said, you don't have to give us a year, but you have to either stay with us or do your own thing?

I say, well, then I'd quit. Yeah. And I had to quit. So but, yeah, I took that position Well, I'm

Steve: bringing that up because I mean, Cody said, like, you know, you were an incredible closer. So just in a different position.

Zach: Well, that's an awesome compliment. I didn't know he said that.

Steve: Yeah. So anyway, continuing on.

Zach: Yeah. So so I took that that position to learn. But at that same time frame, I wanted to, generate more leads, and I needed a lead source that that would work. And so I pivoted to start trying to do driving for dollars. You know, this was before DealMachine.

This was before most of the apps. The only app that was really available at that time was an app called Driving for Dollars, actually. And I did

Steve: fight Tucker Merihugh, another guy that was on the show.

Zach: Yeah, perfect. But I didn't know about it at the time. So at the time, I started adding addresses by driving around and writing down the addresses and pulling up the information on county records. And I built a list of about 70 properties and did a did a deal.

Steve: Okay.

Zach: So I was like, okay, that's a sexy list. 70 properties do a deal like

Steve: But you were manually right every single one out.

Zach: So that took me days, guys. That wasn't like, an hour of work like it is now with a tech. So I was like, okay. Let's do more of this. I recruited a bunch of people to build these lists and I paid 20% of each deal to build these lists and, we went to work six months in.

We then discovered the driving for dollars app where you could add properties with the click of a button instead of looking it up on county records. It's like this is game changing. But by the end of that year, we did just shy of a half $1,000,000 in revenue in gross revenue, and my profit margins were about 25, 30%.

Steve: Yeah. So way more

Zach: way more

Steve: than the previous year.

Zach: Yeah. So I completely blew my window. I built my window cleaning business for a decade. Steve, a decade in two years into wholesaling, I was making way more money with with real estate wholesaling

Steve: and less overhead

Zach: and way less overhead. I don't even have a team. It was me and one other person.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So half 1,000,000. That was in 2018.

Zach: This was in 2018.

Steve: Okay. So then what was next year like?

Zach: So what happened is that's when everything really started to get fun. Right? This is where my my journey changed a lot. So at the end of that year, I was pinching myself for the success that we'd had off the driving for dollars marketing that we had put in place. And I had started building a team and and I was just so grateful.

I was able to provide a life for my family that I'd always dreamed of. Like, I get emotional just thinking about it. Yeah. Because because I felt like I was failing for so long and I was working so hard in giving it all I had. And I felt like I couldn't even cover the main bills for my family.

Like, it upsets me still to this day because it it shouldn't have been that way. And I'm so grateful for Tom and Cody and for wonderful people like yourself and for for people that showed me that there was a better way. So at the end of that year, I did a self help journal. I got invited to do it with a friend. It's called living your best year ever by Darren Hardy.

In there you create three large goals. One of those goals is I wanted to generate a million dollars the next year. I had no idea how. I was pinching myself that I had done a half 1,000,000, But in there, it it taught a concept. It said you have to give away whatever you wanna receive.

So I was like, okay. Well, I gotta give away a million bucks then Mhmm. According to this. How do I do that? I've I don't never even made that much.

I I don't have that much. That's for dang sure. How do I give it away? Yeah. And the the idea came, well, why don't I bring on 10 people, teach the marketing system that I've now put in place?

You know, we've we went in and built tech and we're like, it was pretty cool system, right, to be able to do that kind of revenue. I didn't think it could make me more, but I was like, well, if I teach this to 10 people, you know, I can easily put a $100 in each of their businesses. Boom. Right? Mission accomplished.

Had no intentions of being a coach. No intentions of having a YouTube channel and a podcast and everything like I do now. It was all about helping others.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: So I went to Tom Kroll and I said, Tom, brother, I wanna do this. I wanna put a million dollars in other people's pockets. Will you help me find some students to kind of coach me on how to coach these people and change their lives like you changed mine?

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: He's like, heck yes, I will. Right?

Steve: Right.

Zach: That's how Tom is. And, and so I brought on 10 students And, it was life changing because the more I taught them, the more I realized how stupid I was.

Steve: That's the truth.

Zach: Right?

Steve: The better the more you teach, the less you know, or the more you realize you don't have it as figured out as you thought you did.

Zach: Exactly. Dude, like, I'm gonna tell you one one mistake I was making. I had a student come to me like, Zach, on our tracking phone numbers that we put on our postcards, how do we know or how do we set it up where our our text the people that text that number that it goes to our CRM and we it's like, I've never received a text message. I had hundreds of leads that had gone to the garbage because I wasn't even receiving text messages

Steve: Oh.

Zach: Into my CRM. I mean, I was a mess, Steve. I was a mess. And so the more I taught, the more I learned, the more questions that I said, I don't know. I'm gonna have to get you an answer.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: And then it forced me to get more mentors and to pay for a lot of mentorship to make me a better coach and to make me a better investor to help others.

Steve: Yeah.

Zach: And at the end of that year, we had done, like, 1,200,000.0.

Steve: That's fantastic.

Zach: At the end of that year. So that was incredible. But what was more wonderful and fulfilling to me than the than the million dollars that I made was the money that I put in my students' pockets. Mhmm. The life changing success that they were having from what I taught them and the fulfillment that I got from it.

Yeah. And, it made me become a coach. It made me want to become a coach and to to do this for more people and to teach more people how to become successful. And so, you know, you asked me about what happened in the next year. That's what happened.

It forced me to walk away from revenue. My wholesaling business dropped. I only made 700,000 the next year. Mhmm. Because all of my efforts then went into building and automating my wholesaling business.

So I keep paying my bills so I could go be a coach and make way less money. And so that's kind of been my focus for the last handful of years. Now I have an automated wholesaling business. It's it's now making over 1,000,000 a year again. But, you know, my focus is my students.

It's where I spend my time.

Steve: So a moment ago, you're talking about how you went, and we reflected back and, you know, you were so grateful that you had to be able to support your family because there were many years where you felt like you're pulling on the hours. Imagine particularly in the window cleaning business

Zach: Yep.

Steve: Where they weren't getting the kind of results you felt like they were worthy of getting.

Zach: 100%.

Steve: And I think that's something that a lot of people don't really talk about, you know, because I know I went through that. Something I've shared before was, like, you know, being a realtor from 2007 Mhmm. 2011. I mean, there were years of the deal was thrown around. Right?

I mean, it's a lot of stress. A, being an entrepreneur, the pressure being an entrepreneur to supporting a family, but also the person who's married to that entrepreneur has to go through that roller coaster too. And they may not have necessarily enrolled in it. They're just being supportive. Yep.

So anything you wanna share some insights or people to just be prepared. Like, I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying just things to be prepared for for someone that is thinking about getting the wholesaling with a wife, with kids?

Zach: Yeah. I think that whatever entrepreneurial journey you take, it's never gonna be as easy as you want it to be. It's gonna suck.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: Right? It's really hard. And, I'm not going to give marital advice. But but I will I will give a shout out to my wife. Yeah.

I remember the day that our son was born. It's the most beautiful moment of my life. And I remember thinking, how am I gonna pay these medical bills? And still, she let me invest into coaching. I paid $10 for my first coach was a complete bust, mostly on credit cards.

I remember I remember when we were first married we fought over a $20 DVD player that she purchased because we were that broke and I wanted to spend $10 on a coaching program. Yeah. I told her I was gonna drop out of college to become an entrepreneur. She said, okay, I believe in you. I think that if you are the spouse listening to this that has hesitations in your and your significant other wants to go for it, the best thing that you can do for that person is say I believe in you.

Because now they not only have the pressure to be successful, but they now have the pressure to prove you right. Mhmm. That's way more powerful than saying, no. I don't believe that's possible. It's a scam or I don't believe in you.

Right? That's just gonna crush the spirit of of of who that person is that you're married to. You know, if you are the person that's wanting to ask permission to to go for it, to invest in a marketing, to invest into a coach, right, the best thing that you can do is explain what you're trying to accomplish, show the potential results, show the success stories, and say that's what I would like to give you. Right? I'm I understand that if if you're anything like me, the reason you wanted to be successful was because you wanted to give.

You wanted to give to your children. You wanted to give to your spouse.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: Right? You wanted to give a better life than you're currently giving. And I think that if that is expressed, it's a lot easier to find support from your significant other. But but I will say my wife's pretty freaking amazing.

Steve: Yes. Definitely. Right? And I and I and I get that there were struggles, but I would not be here without the support of my wife. And I think the other thing too is I had a chance, right, to go to an event many, many years ago and I watched all the people that were on the main stage.

And one thing I noticed that they all brought their wives. Right? And they were all married still to their first wife. It's for one guy who was on a second wife. It was only because his first wife had passed away.

Mhmm. And there was for me, the lesson there was that you have to have a a wife. It has to be on the same team. And basically, you know, if you've got an non supportive spouse, it's gonna be really hard to fight the war in the office for the business and then fight a war when you get home with your family. Yeah.

You can't fight a two front war.

Zach: Yeah. Yeah. It's you know, it's funny. Pace Pace Morby, I'm sure you've had him on the show because they're

Steve: Yeah.

Zach: Yeah. Everyone loves Pace. So Pace down here in Phoenix. And I got an opportunity to go on a kind of an excursion in Florida with Tom and Pace and Cody. And Pace actually suggested a book on marriage to me.

I was expressing some struggles and some things that kind of along these lines of how do we keep our spouses happy when we're trying to change the world and be a coach and and create all this content? Because I don't know anybody that puts out at more pace. Pace is not right.

Steve: Like, he's insane.

Zach: He's he's in that case.

Steve: Yeah.

Zach: So that's why I asked him that. And so he gave me a book. It's it's, called How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It. And so that was actually a life changing book. And it was actually an amazing book, not just for my relationship, but the way I communicate, especially with women.

And, it was good for me. It was good for me not not only just for communicating with my spouse, but also, how to communicate with with women in the workplace and how to communicate with my my women students. Mhmm. And, we process information a little bit differently, but we all want the same things.

Steve: Right.

Zach: And so it was a it was a really, really good book.

Steve: Yeah. It's a very eye opening book. I remember I remember reading it many, many years ago around that same time. Yeah. So a very powerful book.

Alright. So we're talking about, you know, a million dollars driving for dollars. So, let's say because I don't do driving for dollars. Let's say I'm brand new and I want to start driving for dollars. Yep.

What's the first thing I do?

Zach: I'd watch the forty day challenge. Okay. So I I I wanted to, like, give an over the shoulder look. Remember I was talking about how, like, I had so much belief and faith in in Tom and Cody because I got to see Cody doing deals in my market. I got to see what it was like, what it took.

And so I wanted to give that gift to others. So I went out and did a forty day challenge and took a thousand bucks. I flew to somewhere I'd never been.

Steve: I

Zach: went to Tampa and the only reason I picked Tampa is it's warm in the winter. Right? It was like the criteria, right? It's not because Tampa is better. This works everywhere.

So I went to Tampa with a thousand bucks. I had a smartphone and a car, and my goal is turn it into $40 in forty days. Figured it was probably about two deals to do that. So that's free content that people can watch. So it's a good it's a good way to see the action steps and the type of work that goes in starting with completely scratch.

Someone like you, it's a little different. You have an established team, an established business. So So my approach would be a little different.

Steve: But let's just pretend I'm, like, brand new. Like, I just quit my job or I just graduated college or dropped out of college, and I wanna start driving for dollars.

Zach: Perfect. So that's that's the first thing I do. I just watch that challenge because it's going to show you what the hustle looks like on a bootstrap type budget, trying to get a deal within the next forty days. Exactly what it looks like.

Steve: Yeah.

Zach: Right. And that's free content. The other thing that I would suggest is finding a guide, finding a mentor because you're going to produce leads and you're not going to know what to do with them. That's the biggest issue I see with students as they'll produce solid leads. They don't know what they're doing, so don't turn it into money.

And they're throwing away $20.30 grand because they don't know how to talk to the seller or they don't have someone to bring the deal to to help them.

Steve: So the most common mistake is someone who was start driving for dollars, pull the not pull a list, but take pictures of properties, document it.

Zach: Yep.

Steve: And when we say procure leads, we're talking about, like, where they actually mailed them, or is, like, here are the addresses?

Zach: I'm I'm saying they they they produce the list. Right? I don't take pictures of the house. Here's a gold nugget. I think it's a waste of money.

Mhmm. It's a waste of time. I add anywhere between 50 to a 100 properties per hour. You cannot do that if you're taking a picture of every house.

Steve: So volume is more important.

Zach: Volume is 10 times more important. Any physical signs of neglect. The reason driving for dollars is the best list that exists is because the reason people sell their house at a discount is because the property is a thorn in their side. I want to deal with it. The property is a thorn in their side.

They're not going to take care of general maintenance. It's a thorn in their side.

Steve: Right.

Zach: So when you drive through the neighborhood, you're like thorn in the side, thorn in the side, thorn in the side. You just you see it. You add those to your marketing list. So it's going to be the highest probability properties to sell at a discount in your market. There's no quality houses in that list, period.

Yeah. Right. So there's no money going away for no reason. Right. So if you have a tight budget, that's very important.

The other the other thing that we use is we use an app called Deal Machine. Right. So I started with driving for dollars. Deal Machine is is my app now. I freaking love them.

I've been working with them since 2018. Tom and Cody were able to introduce me to David Lekko when they were kind of starting up. So we use, when you start your drive, there's three ways you can add properties. The crosshairs mode, which is the take the picture, the the pin mode where you touch the property on the Google Maps and then you have to approve it. That takes a little bit of time.

My version that DealMachine put together for me is the tap to add. So you touch the house and boom, it uploads it to your Excel spreadsheet. So you can drive through neighborhood house, touch, house, touch, house, touch. So you're gonna be able to add 50 to a 100 properties at every single hour of driving. And that's not in war zones.

A lot of people think that's crazy, But it's any physical signs of neglect, peeling paint, dead lawns, those kinds of things. And so you'll see in the forty day challenge, that's how I start. I start building that list. Then once you build that list, that Excel spreadsheet, you can export it out a deal machine or use deal machine to do the marketing. And And so you can there's three things that we do.

We do texting, we do cold calling, and we do postcards. My most profitable and the easiest one to duplicate is postcards. By far, my most profitable. I spend 9¢ to make a dollar on postcards to my driving for dollars list. 90, 1% profit margin.

It's crazy.

Steve: Yeah. It's pretty incredible.

Zach: It is incredible. Yeah. It's that's a huge margin to pay a team and keep a big chunk for myself. Right. So, on the forty day challenge, though, I didn't use postcards.

I didn't have time to wait. I had to hustle. I had to work fast. I had to get people on the phone yesterday, not tomorrow. Right.

And so I did cold calling, which is a very profitable way in a way that it works. But it doesn't necessarily matter what you use, just as long as you build that list and reach out to those people. So that would be the thing that I would suggest is, is, is that right there?

Steve: So you mentioned that the seller you're not selling. Your students are pulling lists, leads, but they don't know what to do with it. So what is what is the typical challenge when they say they don't know what to do with the list?

Zach: Yeah. So it's not necessarily they don't know what to do with the list. Right? Let's say you build the list with driving for dollars and you send a postcard. Well, let's say someone calls you and say, yeah, I'd like to sell my house.

It's like, okay. Now what do you say? Yeah. Right. Yes.

You can pull scripts and you can learn and figure out that you're trying to find if they're they're they're motivated. Okay. Well, let's say they are motivated. Now what do you do? Well, okay.

Well, why are they motivated? Well, there's fire damage. Well, how do you how do you deal with fire damage? Well, you don't know.

Steve: Right.

Zach: Right. And then, oh, well, maybe there's litigation because it's an inherited property and the crackhead brothers living in the house and suing the other sibling moves because there's a deathbed will and there's other situations. Right? So one of the things that I have found with my students that are successful is they go through and they implement those action steps. They get sellers that want to sell on the phone and they find that there's issues.

And one thing that that you have to get good at is learning how to solve problems that are new problems to you. Yeah. So it has fire damage. Okay. Well, how do you wholesale a fire damaged property?

Now you have to figure that out. But a lot of times, the time that it takes you to figure it out on your own, it's gonna cost you the deal. Mhmm. You'll get the next one, but not this one. And that sucks when there's $30 on the

Steve: line. Right.

Zach: Right? One of the biggest benefits that I got of having a coach is to be, hey. I got an eight plex under contract. True story. First deal I had under contract.

How the hell do I evaluate an eight eight unit property? I don't know what I'm doing. Right? I'm I'm a window washer. Yeah.

And and so I was able to figure out how to evaluate it. I found I was under contract to $10 too high, but I was able to learn that. And if I'd had a buyer in place, I would have made money. Mhmm. Without a coach, I wouldn't have made money or I wouldn't have known what to do.

I wouldn't have even known I was $10 too high. I would have had no idea what I was doing. Period.

Steve: Yeah. And it's interesting. Right? Because there's two different groups of people and I think maybe one evolves in the other, maybe not. So I remember when I very first started, I was too smart to have a coach, too arrogant, too wasn't aware of my shortcomings.

Right? So I got what I need a coach for. I'd rather go learn on my own. And if I lose money on the deal, that's I would've lost anyway on the coach. Right?

And then eventually, potentially, you mature. You realize, oh, coaches save money and have a very strong ROI. Right? So what would you tell a person? I mean, you kinda did, but, like, you know, Zach, I don't have $5.10, $15,000 to invest in a coach.

What do you tell that guy?

Zach: Go find another hustle. Seriously. Yeah. So I have a I have a kid in my office that he picks up free furniture off Craigslist Mhmm. And turns around and resells it on Craigslist or Facebook marketplace.

He makes anywhere between 5 and $10,000 a month Yeah. Doing it right. If you like, I tell people all this all the time. If you do not have the ability to hustle and make $5 to use, you do not have the skill set and determination to do real estate wholesaling. You don't.

Yeah. You really don't. If you can't come up with $5,000 to get a coach to teach you how to make hundreds, if not millions of dollars, you will not be successful in real estate wholesaling, so you shouldn't try.

Steve: So you mentioned Darren Hardy earlier. So I heard him use this example, and it's interesting. Right? It's like, alright, Zach. Hey.

I found this gold mine. Right? We're gonna we're gonna go back to Utah here. Hey. Found this gold mine.

It's right by Snowbasin.

Zach: K.

Steve: Right? And I need to go, all all we need to do is go get some wheelbarrows Mhmm. And maybe some pick shovels or picks and shovels, whatever. Right? And then you look at me and it's like, but, Steve, picks and shovels, wheelbarrows, I mean, that's gonna cost, like, $80 for everything.

No. It's not worth it. Yep. And that's how he looks at people that say, oh, coaching is a waste of money. It's like, there's this gold mine over here, but you don't wanna invest in the wheelbarrow, picks and shovels.

Zach: Yeah. And and and, you know, I think a big part of it too is people are afraid of getting burned. Mhmm. People are afraid

Steve: of a very natural and understandable.

Zach: And it is very reasonable. I told people here on this podcast, I paid $10 for my first coach, and it was a big fat waste of money. Yeah. Paid $9 for my second coach. Life changing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: Tom and Cody, to the day I die, I will sing praises to them from the rooftops. They've changed my life. Right? And they're allowing me to change other people's lives. If it wasn't for them, many many lives would not be touched and blessed.

Mhmm. Right? And so let let's talk about that. Let's talk about what's a good coach, what's a bad coach.

Steve: Great point. Go. Let's go.

Zach: So my big thing is if a coach is selling you information, run. They brag about how many hours of video, run. It's not about what they know, it's about the action steps that they'll give you and what you'll be able to accomplish within a certain amount of time if you follow the action steps. The coach's responsibility is to give you an outline, a step in your results that you should expect. Right?

And if a coach is not capable of getting you results, you shouldn't hire them. Yeah. Right? So these are the filters that I use. I still have coaches.

I still hire coaches all the time. I'm still paying for a one on one coach. I pay $50 for my one on one coach for six months, and I get two forty five minute calls a month. And then I still give them 10% of my net profits right now for those six months. So it's a ton of money.

Right? But but guess, like you said, it's an investment. I'm gonna get 10 times more because I'm learning and growing. So these are the filters that I use when I'm going to invest money into a coach. The first thing as I look at, are they doing or have they accomplished exactly what I'm trying to accomplish?

Right. And the next thing, are they helping and and, teaching others to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish? Because doing it and teaching it is two different things. Right. Right.

Having the heart of a teacher and the capacity to teach something in a way that I can comprehend and implement is a lot different in doing it themselves. Mhmm. And then the third is, do I like and trust a person? Yeah. Right.

Do our core values align? Because I don't ever want to be get get put in a situation that if I'm supposed to accomplish something, they're asking me to do something against my moral code.

Steve: Right.

Zach: Right. So, yes, I might be able to accomplish the goal, but they're gonna have me get there in a way that I'm not okay with. So if if you watch their content, if you see their stuff and it kinda puts a bad taste in your mouth, find someone else.

Steve: Alright. Absolutely.

Zach: That's my my filter of three.

Steve: Why I I think you did a really good job of kinda, like, simplifying it because Yeah. I have coaches that I hire that fit that criteria, but I wasn't articulating it that way. I just know myself. If I didn't have a coach that fit those criteria, I wouldn't listen to them. Yeah.

That's just me personally. Right? We had Gary Harper come out, do the consultation for us, and I brought him out even though there's no shortage of business coaches out there. But I brought him out because he's got the track record. He knows knows what he's talking about, He's doing the business and, can teach the business.

Zach: Yep.

Steve: And we resonate. So Yep. I think that's a great great criterias. Alright. So on YouTube, Nathan Conan is asking, are there any other creative ideas for finding motivated buyers just like you mentioned earlier with the auction idea?

Zach: Yes. A 100%. So on the forty day challenge, not only did I have to get the leads and the sellers, right, to make the $40, which I did. I blew that goal completely out of the water, but I had to find buyers to buy the wholesale deals.

Steve: Got it.

Zach: So in the same time frame of forty days, I have to build a buyer's list. I build a buyer's list of 11,000 buyers while I was there, and I used one strategy and it was free. So what I did is I called all the wholesalers in the area and I said, hey. Do you wanna grow your cash buyers list? What is their answer?

Yes. Their answer is yes. Because if they grow their cash buyers, they know that means they're gonna get more per deal. They're gonna make more money. They're gonna move deals they wouldn't otherwise move.

Just more money for them. So yeah, I'd love to grow my cash buyers list. So okay, great. I'm doing a trade. Would you be willing to trade your cash buyers list to get much much more than you're gonna give?

And they say, yes. How many do you have? It's like, well, I'm putting that together now. I do not have an official number yet, but how many do you have? Oh, I have 3,000.

Okay. I'll count you in at 3,000. I'll come back to you when I have more than much more than 3,000 for you. Fair? And be like, great.

So I'd be like, okay. I got Bob the wholesaler on board with 3,000. I go to Steve the, you know, the wholesaler a mile south and I'd be like, Hey, Steve, trading cash buyers list. You want to increase your cash buyers list? Basically, what I did is I got five wholesalers to trade their cash buyers list.

I put the cash buyers list together, got rid of the duplicates and sent this new and improved cash buyers list to everyone. And guess what? I gotta keep it as well. Yeah. So I I brokered a trade of cash buyers, in in Tampa.

That's that's how I was doing it.

Steve: Yeah. So that's not that's beyond creative. It's all very impressive. Real Estate Jake on Instagram. What was the name of that journal again?

Zach: It's, Living Your Best Year Ever. I think it's Darren Hardy.

Steve: Darren Hardy. Yep. Yep. And, yeah. Jake was just on the show.

Francisco on YouTube. What are the KPIs for you on direct mail?

Zach: On direct mail? Should I pull up my exact KPIs?

Steve: Ballpark.

Zach: Ballpark. I sent about a 140,000 postcards in 2021, and I generated about 400 and something thousand dollars.

Steve: There you go. And how many times do you see yourself mailing the same list?

Zach: If if you guys are gonna do driving for dollars and just do postcards, what I would suggest is three total postcards every other month and then redrive that area every six months and refresh your list. Right? You want to hit those houses when they're depressed, when they have couches on the front lawn, when they're bad. So we redrive our market every six months. Right?

We add over 2,000 properties every single week to our marketing list, and we redrive it every six months. So my students get my advanced marketing, which is we do texting, cold calling immediately, who we can't get a hold of, then we send postcards. We send two rounds. So that that's how that's my exact marketing is structured.

Steve: Got it. Simple enough. Simple enough. Duplicatable. And then, I forgot to say earlier you were talking about you got a student that was flipping couches.

So Ryan Panito made flipping couches a a a, was it a reputable side hustle. Alright. So on YouTube again, for mailers that return and they don't pick up the cold call or SMS, what do you do with those leads?

Zach: The ones that don't answer to text, cold calling, or postcards?

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: Well, we redrive that area in six months. If it's still depressed, we just keep on marketing.

Steve: Got it. You guys ever knock on the doors?

Zach: So sometimes. So we have a a list that, it's the worst of the worst houses. Mhmm. So I break up my driving for dollars list into four different campaigns cause I wanna track them and the results for each for all three outreach strategies. So I break down the driving for dollars, listen to absentee owner, owner occupied, corporate, and then the worst of the worst properties.

And I do that because I had students to say, Zach, does it make sense to market to owner occupied? Does it make sense to, to send texting to the corporate owned? It sounds like, well, if I didn't have KPIs, I couldn't say yay or nay.

Steve: Right.

Zach: So this is one of those examples of being a coach has made me a better investor. So I broke it down in those lists with our we have tested door knocking and we have found that is not an efficient or profitable. We spend more money per hour on our door knockers than we do on the returns that we make off a door knocking. It's more efficient to do it the way we do it. So we've tested it.

We just don't really do it anymore. The only times that we will continue to do it is, the worst of the worst houses. The absentee owner, worst of the worst. If we can't get a hold of them, those are the ones will door knock the neighbors.

Steve: Got it. Yeah. And I only ask this because you got that door knocking business that you built up washing windows.

Zach: Oh, I made money off door knocking. Don't get me wrong with wholesaling. Yeah. I've done a few door knocking deals.

Steve: Yeah. Abraham on YouTube, how do you determine when you're going to drive? Where are you going to drive? Sorry. How do you determine where you're going to drive?

Zach: Perfect. So I have some great YouTube videos on that, on my channel. Definitely definitely check that out. But the the big thing is is the simplest way that I can I can explain to people is Google median house price and then your city? Right?

And you're gonna get that number. A lot of times Zillow will tell you what your median house house price

Steve: is.

Zach: Mhmm. And then what I'll do is I'll go to to Zillow or Redfin. It doesn't really matter and look up properties for sale or sold. And and you get those little blocks, you know, those little clumps of houses and you'll be able to see the rough values of those houses by the numbers that they're listed for sale or the solds. And then I want you to drive those areas that are median house price to cheaper.

That's the easiest way. And then you just identify those areas and block that off as your map as areas you should drive.

Steve: Perfect. And then on Facebook, manual Manuel wants to know how on earth are you sending postcards for 9¢ each?

Zach: 9¢? Mhmm. No. I didn't send them for 9¢. I'm sending them for 34¢.

Steve: 34¢. Got it. Okay. So, and then on YouTube, Jeremy, how many driving for dollar properties do you need to turn into one deal?

Zach: So that depends on your market. Right? And there's there's a lot of variations. Right? Your ability to close, but it's also a, cost per deal kind of thing as well.

Mhmm. So if you are in Indiana and your your house price, median house price or sorry, not median house price, but your lower end housing where you're doing most of your marketing, they're worth a 100,000 fixed up. Well, it doesn't make sense to spend $20 on marketing because you're probably not gonna get much more than a $10,000 assignment.

Steve: Yeah.

Zach: But if the house is worth a million dollars, you could probably spend $10,000 on marketing because your average deal is probably gonna be somewhere around a $100. So how many properties you have to add will increase if you're in a more inflated market like California, Phoenix, Utah, Colorado, and your coastal cities. But if you're in the Midwest, your your amount of properties you have to add, like Louisville, Kentucky or or Cleveland, some of those areas, you're gonna add way less properties per deal. So it it really just depends on where you live. It's it's hard to answer that one.

Steve: And then on Instagram, Jesus wants to know what is a recommended skip trace server you might suggest?

Zach: For phone numbers, we use batch skip tracing.

Steve: Yeah. And for us, we use skip fast, which is our white label of batch skip tracing.

Zach: There you go.

Steve: And then, I'm

Zach: Use that one.

Steve: And then, Facebook again. Manuel, how should we structure compensation when starting a team to go driving for dollars?

Zach: So when I first started, I did I did, commissions. Right? I said I did 20% commissions. And

Steve: So they they drive for dollars. They give you the address. You buy that house. They get 20% of the gross profit.

Zach: Yep. That's what I started with. And in six months, I overpaid by, like, 60 or $70 or something like that. It was a ridiculous amount. And when I say overpaid, what we compensate now is $20 an hour.

Plus, we compensate gas if they hit their goals. And then on top of that, we pay them a $100 per deal. So if I would have paid that compensation versus the 20%, I overpaid by like $60.70 grand in just a few months. Yeah. So paying hourly makes more sense because you get more consistency.

Your business will die if you're not consistent with your marketing. And so when you're doing just straight commissions, you'll have people that'll come and go. They're they're not fully committed.

Steve: They'll do it whenever.

Zach: Exactly. If they feel like it. I'm not a believer in having a huge team of drivers and commissions and and bird dogs. It hasn't worked for us. It's how we started.

What's worked best for us is we hire one dedicated driver. That's what they do. I have one driver that drives three days a week. That's 2,000 properties every single week to our list. It doesn't take a giant team to build a million dollar wholesaling driving for dollars company.

Steve: Got it. And then on Facebook, Robert, is median prices based on how many number months of sales?

Zach: I didn't understand the question.

Steve: I guess when you're trying to figure out the median number, are you looking back one month, three months, six months?

Zach: Really just over the last twelve months. It's not an exact science. Right? You're trying to find the the middle to lower income neighborhoods. That's where you're trying to drive.

Steve: Got it. And then on YouTube, Vasili wants to know what percentage of ARV is good to offer in the Sacramento market.

Zach: So the equation that I use is I do ARV. So that stands for after pair value. Right? What it's worth fixed up times that by point nine two. K.

So you guys can get a pen and paper start writing this down times it by point nine two. What that's doing is getting rid of 8%. 8% is is what the flipper will have to have to pay a real estate agent to sell at closing costs, hard money costs. So you get rid of 8%, then you subtract what the rehab costs are gonna be for the flipper. Then you subtract the profits that the flipper is gonna wanna make.

That's gonna be your break even number.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: Right. And so the reason I use that equation, not just a exact percentage of ARV, is because depending on your market, that equation, a percentage area of feed is not going to be 100% accurate where this is a lot more accurate across the board nationwide. Right? So, that's the equation. Once you get your break even number, you got to negotiate a below that for your whole selfie.

Steve: Got it. So what keeps you going? What what is your why?

Zach: For the longest time, it was to provide, life for my family that I wanted to. And when I hit that is kind of the same time that I discovered coaching.

Steve: Mhmm.

Zach: And the first the first deal that I did. The first deal that I did, it was this I figured it out. And the second deal was like, okay, I'm going to do this over and over. This is the greatest thing ever. Third deal was a lot of work, and I don't remember the fourth

Steve: deal. Right.

Zach: And it became a grind and it became, I didn't want to go meet with sellers and it was a lot of work. And then I put a team in place and I'm have all this passive income because of my company. Right. Your business can be passive. Wholesaling can be passive.

It's passive income. I don't go on appointments. I spend a couple hours a week looking at my numbers. That's it. But the fulfillment was kind of gone.

The that euphoric emotional I'm taking care of my family started to fade. And when I started coaching other people and helping people get their first deal or their second deal or put a system in place to get a lot of deals consistently. Right. When I help them accomplish those goals, it's like I get the same feeling that I got when I got my first one. It's it's a it's a weird thing that us humans have, right?

They talk about it. They call it the helper's high. You know, the heart of a teacher heard it called a lot of different things, but I find so much fulfillment and purpose, in doing stuff like this, being on your amazing show and, you know, creating cool content and doing the forty day challenge for people to watch and being a coach. You know, I do it because I get the selfish feeling of I have a purpose. Yeah.

Right. And it's actually meaningful. It's not just a selfish

Steve: Is that only for you?

Zach: Yeah. It's not just for me.

Steve: What is your biggest struggle right now?

Zach: So I'm I'm I've gotten really good at making coaches or not making coaches, but making students extremely successful. But I'm one to one coach. Right? I'm coaching one student at a time. I'm making an impact.

I read a book called 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. And in there, he talks about how important it is to also coach leaders and to push leaders. And my goal is to start leading other leaders and helping other people so my impact can be so much larger. I feel like I'm kind of like a I'm the I'm the bottleneck. I only can do so much, and I'm finding that that's not enough for me.

So

Steve: what are you doing about that?

Zach: I'm coaching some coaches. I'm trying to sponsor some coaches right now. So I brought on it's kind of they're private clients right now, but, something that I'm focusing on, actually.

Steve: But as far as trying to become a better leader, right, where you can make a bigger impact, is there anything you're doing specifically to improve your leadership?

Zach: Yeah. So my coach.

Steve: Got it.

Zach: Right. The one that I'm paying $50. So that's where my coaching is right now. It's where my most of my coaching money is going to for my own self improvement Mhmm. Is making myself a better leader and empowering these other coaches and these other leaders, in the industry to to make that impact for me.

So that's where a lot of my energy and focus personally right now is.

Steve: Got it. And what is your superpower?

Zach: I can shoot a bow over a 100 yards. I don't know. I I I've never really thought about what my superpower is.

Steve: What will your friends and family say is your superpower?

Zach: They probably say I love every day. They probably say that I'm, I'm always happy. Yeah. I am a very, very happy person. I've always been very optimistic.

Very happy.

Steve: That's awesome. And what is the greatest lesson that you've learned?

Zach: I think probably the most moment when it comes to money, making money and being successful is being successful creates more success. Helping someone else become successful creates more success for you, for them, and for everyone around them. So the book Richest Man of Babylon talks about that and the importance of teaching other people about financial success. Because as the economy grows within a community, money grows magically, wealth grows magically. You know, the king builds a castle.

There is the richest man in Babylon. King builds a castle. Well, guess what? Now the land is worth more that the that the castle sits on and the money that he spent didn't just disappear. Now all of the workers now have that money and then they're there.

They use it and it grows. And the land around the castle is worth more. And the castle itself still has the value that he paid for it. Yeah. And so the importance of understanding that there's there's not scarcity, there's abundance.

If someone else is successful at making money, that does not mean that equals less for me. That equals more potential for me. Right. There's when someone wins in business, there's more to be won. Now it's not he won, so that means less less business for the other competitive company.

I don't believe that competition's what people believe it is in business.

Steve: Absolutely. Is that a zero sum game like some people make it out to

Zach: be? Yep.

Steve: And then is there one failure that you experienced as your favorite, best, or most interesting?

Zach: Man, there's so many. There's so many failures. I think my my favorite failure is learning how to do door to door sales to grow my window cleaning business. All of the all of those moments of being rejected to refining and becoming confident to talking to complete strangers and closing. Right.

And I learned that doing door to door sales to grow my window cleaning business. So I think that that failure, right, that ongoing failure that took me years. Yeah. Was probably one of my best things that was ever, ever happened. Probably.

Steve: Did you have to do that when you were in South America?

Zach: Oh, door to door? Oh, yeah. I sold religion, man. Yeah. That sounds nice.

You can sell religion, you can sell anything. Right?

Steve: Well, because that's, I think, something that Pace has as well. Right? I mean, you're going to door to door to sell religion Yeah. Then you can go door to door sell anything.

Zach: Man, I had to do it in Portuguese. Throw that on top. Right? That was tough.

Steve: Aaron Gantz says your superpower is chowing down Brazilian barbecue.

Zach: Yeah. Aaron Gantz is awesome. Aaron Aaron's a student. They're actually him and Mikaela are actually getting married this spring. They asked me to to marry him.

They're amazing people. So Aaron if you guys are in Southern California, you guys should know Aaron Gaunt for sure. Shout out to Aaron. Yeah. He's a he's a rock star.

Steve: He's amazing. So last question is, is there one book you've gifted more than any other?

Zach: One book I've gifted? Man, I would I would say Rich Dad Poor Dad is probably the most gifted book that I've given to people. And I'm sure most of your audience already knows that one. But I think probably the second most is Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Yeah.

It's it's an incredible one.

Steve: It's incredible. Very, very good book. Stephen Covey Mhmm. Is awesome. Alright.

So I want you to think about something you wanna leave the listeners with while I make a couple of quick announcements. Guys, if you get value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. I see 90 people watching. I see 35 thumbs

Zach: up.

Steve: The more you help us, the more