Travel the World While Making $20k per mo Passively – JR Piper Shares How What He Does with his 7 figure business

Steve Trang: Everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disrupters. Today, we have Jared Jr Piper, fair cash offer, another Phoenix guy. And he's gonna talk about how he brings home 20,000 a month passively while traveling the world. If this is your first time tuning in, I am Steve Trang, sales trainer for some of the top wholesalers in the country and I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires.

Question I get a lot is how do you how do you become one of the 100 millionaires? Information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. Take consistent action and you will become one. When you hear a nugget, please type it in the comment section. After the show, identify your single biggest takeaway and focus on just that for the next seven days.

If you get value today, please tag a friend below, share this episode right now. That way we can all grow together. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for JR to answer. You ready?

Jared Jr Piper: Ready.

Steve: Alright. So first question is what got you into real estate?

Jared: First of all, thanks for having me on the show, Steve. It's good to

Steve: be here. Good to have you. Yeah.

Jared: Finally. So I I've real estate since 2011 or 2012, somewhere somewhere in there. And I started I was actually working a corporate job, and I had a buddy that was doing a lot of wholesale and fix and flips and stuff out of the trustee sale. Right? Lots changed since then.

But back then There

Steve: were a lot of those guys doing that back then.

Jared: Yeah. Back then, that's where everybody went to get discount properties. So he was doing probably five or 10 deals a day out of the trustee sale auctions, just killing it. And this was 2011, so, you know, just like there's a million, foreclosures every single day. And he was he started selling properties to another buddy of mine who was had made a bunch of money and was just parking money in real estate.

Okay? And these two guys approached me and they asked me if I wanted to get involved. Basically, they needed someone to manage the day to day of, like, rehabbing the properties and overseeing the property management. I knew nothing about real estate at the time, but I was at the time, I was actually working a night shift in a treatment facility in Mesa. And so I was working the night shift, and then during the day, I was driving around checking on contractors.

And I made a lot of mistakes during that time. I was, like, hiring contractors off of Craigslist and, you know, made made a lot of mistakes in someone else's dime.

Steve: But I learned a lot in that

Jared: in that period. And so I I loved it. I was fascinated by the whole process. And I I started going to real estate school to get my license. So at night, I was working the night shift.

I was studying in the back office in between, like, busy, you know, hours, and I was studying for my real estate exam. And then I would go during the day and drive properties and check on contractors and deal with tenants and the foreclosure stuff and all the different things we were doing. And, and eventually, I actually got fired from that job.

Steve: And From that job?

Jared: Yeah. Got fired from that job, and it forced me into real estate full time. So it's, you know, sink or swim time. Mhmm. And I I started working with these guys, brokering deals as their realtor once I got my license.

And I worked as a realtor for a number of years, with a, you know, focus on investing. And I basically you know, know, since I started watching these guys buy a rental portfolio and build a rental portfolio out of the trustee auctions, I I always had it in my mind that, you know, passive income was, like, the goal. And so I I started saving some money and and looking to invest in real estate myself. So 2013, I bought my first rental, and then I started doing some fix and flips. And I think it wasn't until 2016 or '17 that I actually stopped working as a realtor for other people and just focused full time on investing myself.

Steve: These guys are still in the business?

Jared: Yeah. The one that bought all those houses is he's got other businesses, but he he still owns a large rental portfolio. The other guy is involved, but he's not he's also pretty passive at this point.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, they made a killing in those times.

Jared: Yeah.

Steve: Don't really need to work too hard right now.

Jared: Yep.

Steve: Okay. So you made a lot of mistakes, but they weren't on your dime. So were there any challenges then getting into real estate?

Jared: I mean, learning learning project management

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: When I knew nothing about construction or how to how to find contractors or how to manage them.

Steve: So they're they just threw you to the wolves. They're like, hey, we need a project manager. Go figure it out.

Jared: Yeah. Basically. It was I mean, it was like it was it was a classic case of right place at the right time.

Steve: Uh-huh.

Jared: They came to me and they said, hey. You know, this guy wants to buy a bunch of houses and rent them out, but he doesn't wanna deal with any of it. Like he just wants to put up the money and do nothing. And so we want you to do the the grunt work. Right?

And it's you know in hindsight it's like I got paid very little to do that, but it like I always tell people if I go back and do it again I do it for free. Because I learned so much in that first year of doing that that it would have taken me several years to learn on my own.

Steve: So what did you get compensated for doing all that?

Jared: I think I was getting I was getting a thousand dollars per remodel and 5% of the gross rents per month.

Steve: Yeah. So that's not that's not awful.

Jared: It wasn't I mean it wasn't terrible but you know you know $700 a month was like the average rent. And so it was a a couple 100 few $100 a month, but it was there's a lot of time involved in it.

Steve: For sure.

Jared: You know?

Steve: The only reason why I bring this up because there's people like how do I get started? What do I do? And I always say like, one of the options if you don't have money is just go work for somebody. Yeah. And learn on their dime, which you did.

And it was expensive dime for them. Yeah. Right? But the experience you get far outweighs the the financial compensation you're trying to get. But a lot of people can't wrap their head around that.

Jared: Yeah. It's it's invaluable. Yeah.

Steve: So you wanna elaborate on that a little bit because I want some of the people that are listening to appreciate the the the value of that.

Jared: Yeah. Excuse me. So, people who know how I started in real estate, you know, sometimes say, man, you were so lucky. Like, you had these these these heavy hitters that you were just attached at the hip to from day one. And it's true.

I was very fortunate to be in that position, but the truth is they weren't, like, pulling any favors for me. Right? I was friends with these guys. I've known both of them for most of my life. But we have a very clear distinction between our business relationship and our friendship.

Right? And this was a business relationship.

Steve: Yeah.

Jared: And so they didn't they weren't doing me any favors. They didn't take it easy on me when I made mistakes. I was in the position that I was in to do that and presented with that opportunity because of the value I brought. You know, they I I like I say, right place, right time. They just needed someone that they trusted, who was intelligent enough to, like, manage it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: And I just happened to be sitting in the car with them when they were having that conversation. Right? But, what I tell people who are new who wanna you know, everybody wants to be the guy. Right? Everybody wants to have a big team and do, you know, run a 7 figure business.

What I tell people is, you know, if you're starting out, sometimes it makes sense to just not worry about the money or the outcome and just get attached to somebody who's doing what you wanna be doing.

Steve: Right.

Jared: And the most important part about that is figure out a way to add value to their life and their business. And then by proximity, you will learn what they're doing. Mhmm. And as you start to save some money and create your own opportunities, you can you can do what they were doing.

Steve: Alright. So what was your first deal? And like, JR's first deal?

Jared: My first deal, so I had so that's tricky because I like I said, I was I was a realtor and I was I had bought my first rental property in 2013. It was a Maryville house, which I actually just sold last year. I bought that house for $53,500. I put $10 into it. I had a hard money loan at, like, ten or twelve percent interest and, which I refinanced out of a couple years later.

I just sold that last year for 205,000.

Steve: Nice.

Jared: But, but my first wholesale deal so I'll tell you two stories actually. So I as a realtor, I had I had someone come to me at one point and said, hey. I've my landlord wants to sell his house, and, I'm gonna put him in touch with you. Okay? And so I had this conversation with the landlord, and he for whatever reason, he didn't wanna list the property on the MLS.

And he said, I will pay you a 3% commission if you bring me a buyer. And I said, how much do you want for the house? He said, a $100,000. I thought it was super realistic. I thought I could probably sell it for more than that.

So I went out and I found a buyer. And I came back to him and the buyer paid $1.10. Now the extra 3% the the extra, you know, 10,003 percent of $10, it wasn't it wasn't much. Right? But the seller made an extra $10.

He was thrilled about it.

Steve: Yeah.

Jared: And I it occurred to me after that closed, you know, if I had had a way to just buy that property and resell it

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: I could have made the $10.

Steve: Yeah.

Jared: You know? And he still would have been happy because he got what he wanted. Like, it would have been truly a win win. You know? And so, so I I that was like a missed opportunity, but something clicked that, hey.

There's there's a better opportunity here than being a realtor.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: Right? And so my first guy I actually did a few different deals with my buddy that I mentioned in the beginning. Right? And I would I would basically find a deal on the MLS or something and I would lock it up and I would call my buddy and say, hey. I think I got a deal.

This is a good deal. And he would sell it and we would split the profit $50.50. And the first time that it occurred to me that I could really do it on my own was when I locked up the deal. I partnered with him. He worked on it to find a buyer, but I actually found a buyer who wanted it.

Mhmm. And he sold it. And then my buyer called me back after you know, we had sold it and said, I'll take it. And I said, it's already sold. But it it occurred to me then, I can actually just do this on my own.

I don't need help anymore. Mhmm. You know? And so I would say the first one that really, like, hit home was when I drew that line in the sand and it was, like, 2016 or 2017. And I just made a decision because I loved investing in real estate, and I didn't love being a realtor.

It was good money. It was good money, right? But it wasn't I wasn't passionate about it. I wanted to focus all my time and energy on investing. I started marketing in 2016 or '17 direct mail, sent out 10,010 letters my first month, of of marketing, and I got a deal immediately and I made $40,000 on.

And that's when it was like, okay. There's something to this Yeah. And it's time to blow it up.

Steve: It's crazy. So you became real. You're doing direct mail pieces and that's working. At which point were were you like, okay. I've got this passive income goal.

This is what I'm gonna do or I got this lifestyle goal. Like, when did you have that epiphany or or or clarity?

Jared: Yeah. So like I said, so from day one, because I started working with guys that were buying houses at trustee sale and well, the one guy anyway was was just buying houses to rent them out. That was his whole focus. I kinda started with that mindset of, like, I wanna buy real estate, acquire as much as I can, and generate as much passive income as I can because I observed that he had nothing to do with the properties or the construction or the business itself. And he was making, you know, once it got scaled up and stabilized, like, he was making $20.30 grand a month.

Right. You know? And so I was like, well, that's what I want. You know? So so that's kind of always been the focus.

And I as I started wholesaling and flipping houses consistently, I always have looked at the bigger picture. I I mean I love wholesaling. I I enjoy flipping. I don't I try to avoid flipping a lot of houses because I I don't love managing construction but I've always viewed flipping and wholesaling as a way to spin off a ton of cash Mhmm. So that I can afford to invest in assets that will pay me passively while I sleep, while I travel, do whatever I want.

Steve: So the passive income was clear from your mentors, your friends.

Jared: Mhmm.

Steve: When was the traveling thing like, oh, this is what I got to do? Yeah. When did you get the travel bug?

Jared: So I wanna say, 2015, I took my first trip, first big trip anyway, to The Philippines and I traveled through Southeast Asia for maybe five five or six weeks. I went to several countries and, it was just a like a really, life altering moment for me. Like it it awoke my spirit in a way that nothing else really had. And, and I ever since I've just tried to travel every opportunity that I get, you know. It's never it's a lot like having kids, I think.

I don't have kids but from what I hear, like, you're never quite ready, you know. So I always think of booking trips like kinda like that. Like there's never gonna be a perfect time. You're never gonna have all your ducks lined up and in a row and it's like everything's ready. Like, you just gotta I shut my eyes and I book it.

Right? I watch travel deal websites and I, like, I'll see a deal pop up and I'm like, oh, I guess I'm going to Japan next month. You know? Like, I'm out.

Steve: Oh, wow. Just like that?

Jared: Just like that. Yeah. So yeah. So I did I mean, 2015, I took a couple big trips. I did a trip to Southeast Asia.

I did a trip through South America with a couple friends. We drove from Phoenix, Arizona to Santiago, Chile.

Steve: And we're back. Alright, guys. Sorry about that. So, yeah, we were talking that, JR was shipping his car through Panama. So talk about that.

Jared: Yeah. So the the South America trip, we drove from Phoenix to Santiago, Chile, shipped the car across the Panama Canal.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: And, at three months, got shaken down by a lot of border agents, got pulled over.

Steve: Let's let's let's explain. What does shaking down mean? Not everyone has world experience it. What does shaking down mean?

Jared: So in in South America and I'm sure, many other parts of the world, when you cross a border by vehicle, you have to go through a whole process. Now, like, if you cross from Mexico into The United States, it's a pretty pretty structured straightforward process.

Steve: Right?

Jared: It's organized. Now crossing from like El Salvador into Honduras, not so organized. It's it's literally like you you drive up to the border. You you gotta park in a line of cars. You go into a little hut and they give you a piece of paper.

You go down the block around the corner to second house on the left. You give it to them. They give you a different piece of paper. You take that down the block and around the corner. They, you know, you wake up a guy that's sleeping in a hammock and he rolls over and prints something off on a printer that's for some reason laying next to the hammock, hands that to you, you take it across the street, you get it stamped, you go back to the first place.

It's like insanity.

Steve: I did not know that.

Jared: It's insanity. Okay? Very disorganized. It's it's complete chaos. And so in a lot of these places, you know, one of two things will happen.

Either you'll meet someone who just walks up to your car as you're approaching the border and they say, hey. You're gonna need a guide because it's a clusterfuck in here. Right? And, you know, tip me and I'll just, you know, expedite your process. Right?

And that guy inevitably is going to tell you at every stop there's, hey. You gotta pay $20 for this, but you gotta wait here. And then they come back and there's no receipt and you don't know where the $20 were. Hey. And it's now it's $40 at this other Mhmm.

Stop and I hey. And it's and I need $25 for this guy. And it's like, you don't know where any of that money is actually going, but my guess is, like, most of it's going into his pocket, if not all of it. And then border agents, of course, in some of these countries just straight up tell you, like, yeah. You're not gonna be able to pass.

It's gonna be four hours. But if you give me $20, I'll let you go. Now, you know, we'll just skip the whole process.

Steve: Front of the line pass.

Jared: Yeah.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. Very cool. So, another thing we're talking about is we talk about twenty k month passive. So you're you're there now.

Mhmm. How long or what did you have to do to get to 20? Because I think a lot of people that get into this business, they don't get into the wholesale. Well, some people do. Right?

They see the checks as exciting. But most people get into it for the passive income. Wholesaling is just a mechanism. Yeah. How long did it take for you to to get to the 20 k a month passive?

Jared: Yeah. So, I mean, nine years. You know? Yeah.

Steve: Yeah.

Jared: But and and honestly, that's like I've I've I've, you know, sold some properties that I could have capped that would have added to that, you know, cash flow. I've sold some properties that, I had in my portfolio that, you know, were producing income, and I I I cut them for whatever reason. But, you know, it's a slow build. And the way that I've done it, it it did take a very long time because I have in my entire portfolio, like, I think I have there's like a there's a, like, two or three hard money loans, and then I've got five thirty year mortgages, and the rest of them are all free and clear. So, it's it's taken some time to get there, but I bought my first property rental property in 2013, and then I've just continued to acquire as I've wholesaled and been exposed to a lot of good deals.

I I keep anything that makes sense that I can then, you know, pay off in cash and and cross collateralize assets and go to a bank and get lines of credit, which I know is a whole different subject.

Steve: Right. So I've heard some rules of thumb. You know, keep one in every four or one in every five. I've heard someone you know, Leon Johnson, who's on the show, he's like, his only regret is that he ever sold any of his properties. Mhmm.

So, like, do you have a rule of thumb that you're shooting for, or is it just play by ear?

Jared: Yeah. My my rule of thumb is if it fits my buy box and I can afford to keep it, I'm keeping it.

Steve: Got it.

Jared: I I've kept properties that other people thought I was insane for keeping because I could have made 60,000 or a $100,000 wholesale fee fee in a day. But I decided to close on it and put it in my portfolio because, again, I've always been focused on the bigger picture. I think it's really easy to get, you know, excited about that quick cash, and it's understandable. I mean, to be able to make $50,000 or a $100,000 on a single transaction, that's, like, life changing

Steve: Right.

Jared: For for most people. So it you know, having $500 a month in cash flow instead is not quite as sexy.

Steve: I'm still looking for those, rent deposits on Instagram. I know I never seen anyone post their rent deposits.

Jared: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mine's all electronic. So I mean Yeah.

I don't even get, you know, checks in the mail. But

Steve: So you mentioned the cross cross collateralization, right, which is important concept or important thing for people that are trying to have this model, right, owning properties to cash flow. So you want to just say high level what we're talking about here?

Jared: Yeah. So basically what what I'm referring to, is I will buy properties with cash free and clear unencumbered And then I'll take a package of homes to a bank and I will have them give me a commercial line of credit on those homes. So once you have enough lines of credit, then you can just continue to buy more real estate with the money that the bank's giving you. My interest rates at at a couple different banks are between, like, 34%.

Steve: Wow. That's really good.

Jared: Yeah. I think 3.754% is where I'm at right now.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: It's basically prime plus zero. Mhmm. You know? And so, you know, I I'm constantly trying to just acquire new assets that that make sense. The the biggest thing is you gotta buy deals that actually make sense as a rental.

But my my other rules of thumb is that I'd like to if I do refinance it and or or get put debt on it, I like to be at 60 or 65% loan to value or less. Right? And and and be able to pull all my cash out because it's then I'm safe in in a recession. If the market corrects and values drop, you know, I don't think we're gonna see another 2008. But if they drop or if that did happen again, I'd be totally safe.

Steve: Right.

Jared: I wouldn't even lose a night of sleep, you know?

Steve: Yeah. You're protected. Mhmm. With making the kind of income you're making now passively, why can't you keep all of them right

Jared: now? Because not all of them work. Some some I don't want to keep because maybe it's not in the right area or it has certain features that I don't wanna deal with. You know? And I and I will say there are deals where if the spread's big enough, I just go ahead and sell it.

Mhmm. You know? Because I I wanna keep revenue coming in to my business so I can fund other rentals too.

Steve: Got it. Now talking about these kinds of numbers, you must have a giant operation.

Jared: No. Not at all. So

Steve: what's your operation?

Jared: So, my operation right now is me and and, an admin assistant. And it's been that way pretty much since I started. I have at times over the years, you know, had a couple of other employees and acquisitions, dispositions, lead manager. But, I've never I've never felt like, I enjoy simplicity in my life. So each time I've scaled it up, I've ended up scaling it back down and just keeping it simple.

I've I've noticed that with a big organization comes a lot of payroll and a lot of headaches, and it's just not something that I personally want to manage or expose myself to. Having a small team and just doing the majority of the work myself not only allows me to have much higher profit margins. So at the end of the year I can actually net more than I might if I had a big team and, you know, did double the revenue. But it also gives me the freedom and flexibility to do whatever I want to do. I can travel.

I can take off for a month or two at a time and go explore a different region of the world. I can go in the office at noon if I feel like it. Right. I go snowboarding every every year for No.

Steve: I see those pictures. Weeks. On Instagram, I get a little jealous. So how are you taking the inbound calls if you're in The Philippines or in South America? Like, how does that work?

You got a seller? You're sending out direct mail piece, seller calls. How are you handling those calls? Or if you're on on a on a on a on a share lift, right, getting ready to come down the mountain, like, how are you handling those calls?

Jared: Yeah. So I just answer it and say I'm on the share lift, Akoya. I mean, the reality is that's that's the downside to having a smaller organization is it's a little bit more complex to be closing deals when I'm in The Philippines because things aren't getting paid as much attention to as they would were if I was there. I can't physically be at the property and face to face with the seller and all these things. You know?

I I have had trips where my admin assistant is continuing to answer the calls and then I'm just essentially sending a buyer to the property and they're closing it with the seller and paying me an assignment fee, you know, and just like we work it out that way. So

Steve: you have to have really tight relationships. I've

Jared: got excellent relationships with my buyers. I know some really great people in the Phoenix market. But, but the truth is the majority of the time when I'm traveling, I'm shutting off the direct mail. And I'm not actually marketing while I'm gone. I'm not active working that much while I'm away.

I still am doing things while I'm traveling. I never really stop or clock out entirely. But Yeah. That's kind of the downside of being a smaller operation is, you know, if I'm not working, things do kinda grind to a halt.

Steve: What because with direct mail, I've always heard that you gotta be consistent. Mhmm. So you're shutting it off and restarting it. Are you finding that hurting you in your business?

Jared: Yes. Yes and no. So it it it does give me an opportunity to kinda retool and and find new methods when I get back. Right? And sort of reexamine what I'm doing as opposed to just being on autopilot and sending out, like, the same stuff and same list and, like, just sort of doing going through the motions of doing the same stuff over and over again.

But at the same time, it does hurt because when, you know, direct mail, there's always a ramp up period of, you know, three months or three three mail cycles before you really start getting the calls. And, like, I have I mean, even today, like I haven't sent direct mail in the last three months and I still get calls occasionally from people that have just been holding my letter for six months, right? So as you're sending direct mail and being consistent which I agree is key, you're you're gonna have more and more calls from not just the people that received your letter that day but people that have received it in the past and then it just it it grows. Right? But, when I'm on a trip and I shut it off, it it stops.

Those those calls stop trickling in.

Steve: Mhmm. And

Jared: then when I get back, it's kind of like I have to start it all over again and and go through that ramp up phase again. So that is a little bit of a, you know, a downside to

Steve: to

Jared: doing that.

Steve: Is direct mail your only avenue?

Jared: It it it was. I have so I've done I will say that it was my predominant source of marketing. I've done, Facebook marketing. I've done some cold calling, and I'm now experimenting with Google AdWords. But direct mail has been the bulk of my marketing and where I've made, like, 90% of my money Yeah.

From marketing.

Steve: And so I've told some people, you know, like, hey, you know, where everyone's talking about texting and cold calling and RVMs and this and that. And I've said, like, there are people quietly, not loudly, quietly saying direct mail works. You're one of them. Right? Mhmm.

You're one of a handful of people who's like, yeah, dude. I still do direct mail. It's crushing it. But, like, yes. Please keep telling people about texting.

Jared: Yeah. It's funny when RVM came out, everyone was doing RVM and texting and, like, all these different they were trying these different things, and my direct mail stats went through the roof. Yeah. It was, like, so many people stopped mailing.

Steve: Right. And

Jared: I just kept sending out my my mail and, yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Going against the grain definitely pays off.

Jared: Yeah. It's tried and true.

Steve: Yep. So we're in Phoenix. Mhmm. And I don't know if you know this. There's a handful of gurus out here.

Yep. So More than a handful. So how is your operation different than our peers?

Jared: Yeah. I mean my operation is different for the simple fact that I'm more or less a one man band. Mhmm. You know, a lot of the guys in our market have the team and the infrastructure and and with that comes, you know, the big overhead and the payroll and the big office and all that stuff. And, you know, I sometimes I I envy that because I I said man I I wish I had the ability to go snowboarding for a week in Park City and still have this machine that operates while I'm gone, you know?

But again, like going back to my original vision, my vision has always just been about building the passive income stream through rental properties. And so I, you know, I do enough revenue with me and one assistant to be able to continue to build my portfolio and have the lifestyle that I want and it just keeps my life really simple. I work when I wanna work. I travel when I wanna travel. I I make plenty of money, and I don't have, like, the headache of managing people and having to, like, manage all these systems and and the stress or the the weight of, like, you know,

Steve: a really high payroll or a lot overhead. Yeah. If we don't close a deal this month, we're in trouble.

Jared: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Well, you're doing something right because, when we posted, you're gonna be on the show, we had Jamil and, Pace and Brian Manley. Nice. I was like, oh, we love JR. So Great guys.

You're doing something right. So then, I guess, you know, doing a million in revenue, how much how much are you wholesaling right now? How much are you flipping right

Jared: now? So I like I said, I try and avoid doing a lot of flips because I don't like doing big rehabs. It's just it's just brain damage to manage for me as a as a one man operation. Again, it'd be different if I hired a project manager, which I'm I might at some point, but, for now, I just I do all of it myself and my assistant helps. I do probably five or six flips a year, like big big rehabs.

And then I wholetail a decent amount. Anything that I either can't wholesale, wholesale or that just doesn't need a full rehab or the margin is is is worth it. I'll take it down and and list it on the MLS. I'm still licensed today. So I just listed myself so I don't have to pay a listing agent.

And then I and then I have, I do maybe fifty, sixty wholesale deals a year.

Steve: Gotcha. Gotcha. You know, it's funny. I know we've been connected for some time. We didn't really meet until, you and I both showed up to a random Ria, Azria.

Jared: Yep.

Steve: So I just thought that was funny. Right? Like, there's all these different Rias and this and that and, you know, a couple of guys in town, but that's how we connect.

Jared: Yep.

Steve: So you're talking about direct mailing being your best marketing channel. The question that always comes up in every Facebook group is what list?

Jared: Yeah. So my list is actually extremely broad. I don't I actually have done very little marketing to distressed lists.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: I like to always think about where everybody else is not going. So, you know, for example, for, you know, everybody mails the wants to wants a probate list or foreclosure list or, you know, whatever. Right? And so I've I've always marketed to just more of a a broad list. Anyone that's, older than 55, I tend to see that, you know, elderly or older population values convenience a lot more than someone in their thirties or forties.

So I've had better luck with with an older population and anyone that's owned the property for over like ten or fifteen years more likely to sell. And then, you know, the the callback ratio on those on that type of list is not gonna be as high as something, you know, foreclosure, a pre foreclosure list or, like, a, you know, a high distress list. But, to me, it's just been very consistent, and I've gotten a lot more leads where there's not as much competition. I'm sitting in the the kitchen. I mean, nowadays, it's like they've got 10 letters on the table Right.

When you walk in. But, you know, back a couple years ago, it was like I was getting a lot of leads where I was the only guy they were talking to.

Steve: So it's kinda like a cold call and a high equity list. Like Mhmm. Yeah. There's deals there. It's not as many people.

Jared: Right.

Steve: But when you find them

Jared: Yep.

Steve: They're great deals.

Jared: Yep.

Steve: So, one thing you and I were talking about offline was that the your fee in Phoenix has gotten a little bit of a pressure. Yeah. Exactly. What was your fee two, three years ago? What's your fee today?

Jared: So my fee in 02/1718 was between $20.23 and $27,000 average as average wholesale fee. And today, it's it's like half that. It's like $12.13 grand.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. There's a few guys. Again, we blame we can blame all those other gurus out there.

So then I guess running a lower overhead business, what is your monthly marketing? What is your monthly overhead?

Jared: So, my monthly overhead is I wanna say like between twelve and fifteen thousand. That includes payroll and just all the systems and, you know, random subscriptions and stuff. Mhmm. I I pay myself about a 100,000 year, so that includes my salary. And then marketing, I'm spending well, I'm spending nothing on direct mail right now.

But when I was sending, you know, a lot of mail, I was doing maybe 20 to 25,000 a month, dollars, which is about 40 or 50,000 pieces a month that I was sending out. And, and then right now I'm experimenting with Google AdWords. So my my marketing budget is actually very low because I'm sort of teaching myself this new skill set and I'm actually experimenting with some virtual stuff because, like, the cost per deal here has gone up so much and then Yeah. Profit has gone down. So I'm now I'm sort of testing a virtual model and, learning Google AdWords.

So my market now is is like $34 a month, but I'll scale that as, you know, I have proof of concept.

Steve: What is your cost per deal right now? On direct mail? Mhmm.

Jared: Oh, it's like $6, $7. It's it's yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. 5 between 5 and 7.

Yeah. Yeah. It's bonkers.

Steve: Wow.

Jared: Whereas opposed to a, you know, a couple years ago, it was like 2 or $3.

Steve: Yeah. Definitely things have have changed just a little bit. Yeah. So what what tools are are you using? Right?

Because you're you're intentionally being small. What tools are you using that you could not live without?

Jared: Tools. That's a good question. I mean, everything that I do is so simple. It's like I don't have any fancy systems. I use Podio for my CRM.

I use DocuSign. I couldn't live without DocuSign. You know? I use CallRail for the phones. I I really don't have anything, like, fancy that that I use that stands out.

It's all very basic stuff.

Steve: So then let me ask you this. Since you want to have a simpler model, simpler business, and you don't wanna go too crazy, why are you in masterminds? I mean, I know you're not one right now, but you've been Mhmm. In in in some. Why if you're doing what you wanna do?

Jared: Yeah. No. And it's a good question. And and like I said, you know, when we're talking before the show, I'll probably join another one this year. It's been it's been maybe a year or two since I was in the last one.

Mhmm. And I just I think it's such an important thing to continue to learn and grow. And, you know, I I have this thing I I I never wanna feel comfortable. Right? And so as long as I'm surrounding myself with people that are better than me, smarter than me, and doing more than me, I'm gonna continue to learn and grow.

And I'm very competitive by nature. So it's you know, you never wanna be the smartest guy in the room.

Steve: Right.

Jared: Yeah.

Steve: Alright. So, guys, please ask your question. I think Derek Schultz is your newest fan. I mean, the number one fan. Was it number one member in your fan club.

He's he's loving what you're doing. Alexis wants to know how often are you marketing to the same list?

Jared: I I marketed to that same list for a few years straight with, you know, intermittent breaks in between but yeah.

Steve: Every month, every quarter.

Jared: Oh, good. Okay. So I would I would mail to like a let's say a a list of 45,000 that was gonna go out in a month. I would pull about 80 or a 100,000 records. I would then split that into two months of mailers and I would mail, break it up into 16 or yeah.

16 drops. So I had two going out each week. Mhmm. So in other words, it was like eight weeks of marketing, but I was splitting each of those weeks into two, two drops so that I didn't have like a flood of phone calls all on Monday. They were more scattered throughout

Steve: Yeah. And that's what we had. We just did our first drop and they all came in just a handful of days. So what is your biggest struggle at the moment?

Jared: Biggest struggle at the moment? Well, so I mentioned that I'm I'm I'm learning this virtual model. I started, you know, because Phoenix is I'll I'll always do business in Phoenix. But because the cost per deal has gone up so much and the profit margin has gone down, it's just so viciously competitive here.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: I again, I'm always looking to go where other people are not. So I started venturing out and doing some virtual deals. I've done deals in a few different states now and learning an entirely new it's it's essentially like a whole different process in some of these virtual, you know, or in some of these other state virtual markets. It's like in Phoenix, it's it's hard to get a deal, but I can sell it in two seconds if it's a deal. Yeah.

In, you know, in Petal, Mississippi, I can get a deal pretty quickly, but selling it is like it's like pulling teeth to get buyers to go to the property and call me back once they've seen it and commit and then get earnest money and get the title company to do it. They just people just move at a different pace

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: In some of these different markets. So the dispositions and obviously the marketing is a new challenge for me. I'm learning AdWords for the first time and kind of experimenting with that.

Steve: It is really fascinating because we're experiencing the same thing as well. It's just people just move at a different speed. And I've never considered Phoenix to be a high paced site. I don't look at us like a Los Angeles or New York. Right.

But clearly, the rest of the country is moving at a slower speed

Jared: Much slower.

Steve: Than we are. Yep. So Dean McCall wants to know what are some key traits you're looking for in your buy box?

Jared: I like for rentals, I like a three two or bigger. I I prefer not it doesn't have a pool but I'll still buy it if it has a pool if it makes sense. I like to be all in at 65% loan to value which is tough in this market.

Steve: Yeah. Very tough.

Jared: But as long as I'm 65%, you know of the ARV, I can package that and take it to a bank and pull a 100% of my capital out in form of a line of credit and continue building those lines and then have millions of dollars of the bank's money Mhmm. And just like unlimited buying power.

Steve: Those are all lines of credit. Yeah. They're not just sitting in your bank account.

Jared: No. I wish. Okay. I'm I'm well funded. I have I mean, I use a lot of my own cash, but I I use lines of credit and stuff too.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. What, how do you stay motivated?

Jared: You know, I have consistency is key. I think that doing the things that we don't wanna do on a regular basis keep us sharp

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: And not allowing ourselves to get comfortable and and, you know, complacent, consistently doing the things that we don't wanna do and forcing ourself out of bed in the morning, forcing ourself into the gym, everything, you know, there's a there's like a this disconnect between what we think we want and what actually feels good most of the time.

Steve: Oh, massive

Jared: disconnect. So like going to the gym.

Steve: Ice cream always tastes great.

Jared: Ice cream tastes great but you feel guilty immediately after, you know. Mhmm. So, yeah, I stay motivated by just constantly pushing myself and trying to level up.

Steve: Gotcha. Very cool. And what is your your your super

Jared: power? I am extremely calculated. I have I would say I have a a just a sort of an innate ability to monetize every deal that I put my hands on and a way of maximizing the profit on anything that I'm involved in. And I'd say that's my superpower.

Steve: What's the greatest lesson that you've learned?

Jared: Greatest lesson that I've learned. I would have to say that the probably the greatest lesson that I've learned is that business is important and it's a it's a vital part of my life and it's something I'm very proud of, but it's not everything. Alright? I know that's kinda contradictory to, like, what a lot of people wanna hear or thinking, but, like, I I really believe that, you know, it it's it's important to make a lot of money and be successful, but there's no point in doing all those things and making all this money if we don't get to enjoy it too. So taking the trips, doing the things that we wanna do, enjoying our lives, and and and being there for our family and and having fulfilling relationships, like, those are that's the most important thing.

Steve: Yeah. You

Jared: know? And and money and business, it's a way for us to, like, enhance our life to a certain extent, but, you know, enjoying it is the most important part.

Steve: Yeah. Mhmm.

Jared: And I

Steve: think that's often overlooked. Mhmm. So Dee's follow-up question is, is there age of home requirement you have? Single or two story, section eight housing?

Jared: Nope. I'll look at any of it.

Steve: Alright. And Isaac Avila wants to know, does your admin cold call as well? No. No. What is what is he or she responsible for?

Jared: Right now, it's it's mostly just admin tasks. But when I have like, when I was sending out direct mail, she was doing my leads management. She was handling some of the dispositions and transaction coordination in addition to all the admin stuff, paying bills, paying vendors. Some of my property management, she she takes care of for me.

Steve: Gotcha. What is your plan then with the virtual?

Jared: So, I'm still kinda figuring that out, but I I, you know, I contradict myself by saying that, you know, I I want to keep my business simplistic and and small because it's it's very clear to me that in order to scale the virtual model to any kind of, you know you know a large amount of revenue like I'm gonna need help. So I am I am in the process of kind of just like figuring it out, building out the systems and the processes, and then I'll almost likely be hiring for acquisitions dispositions Yeah. And whatever else I need. So it's like it's funny because I'm like my whole thing is to keep it small and be simple but this is this is something that I'll I it's very clear, like, I'm gonna need help with so I will I will probably be hiring for this.

Steve: And, who do you plan on, you know, networking, connecting with to help you build out this model?

Jared: I'll probably be joining a mastermind, like I said, in the next in the next this year or in the next few months.

Steve: Yeah.

Jared: I've I've got a great network of guys that are either, you know, highly sophisticated and successful in real estate or, in specifically in the virtual model. So I bounce stuff off of them all the time as I as I'm figuring it out. You know, Brian Manley is when I'm like, I'll be hitting him up. Your phone, bro. Yeah.

Steve: That's what Yeah. That's what I was leading to. Right? Because we've had several guys that have actually been in the show already. We got Brian Manley.

We got Nick Perry. We got Sean Terry. Corey Boatwright is coming up soon. Mhmm. So, like, there are a lot of guys doing it really well virtually.

Yeah. So you're you're very well connected. You got the right people.

Jared: It's a very scalable model. Yeah. You know?

Steve: Corey's saying that constantly in our Facebook groups. He just keeps pushing us to do it. Yeah. So Yeah.

Jared: I like I like the idea of acquiring assets in other markets too because the rental numbers compared to Phoenix. I mean Phoenix, I'm thrilled if I can buy a property for a $100 and it rents for a thousand bucks a month. But in like, you know, Indy or or Alabama, like, you know, you can buy stuff 40 ks all in and rent it for 800 or 1,000 a month. Like, those numbers are just too good to be true to me. The property management's a bit of a, you know, a logistical challenge that I'm not sure that I wanna take on.

But again, it's if I can figure that component out, it's that's a very scalable part of the business. I'm also looking at doing maybe some lease option or seller financing stuff as an exit strategy so that I don't I can remove the logistics of the management. Yeah. But that's all kind of to be determined as I as I figure it out. But again, I'm going back to my focus of passive income and that's for me the always been the goal and will always be the goal.

You know, wholesaling and flipping is just a means to, you know, generate the cash to to acquire acquire these assets because for me, that's what true freedom looks like.

Steve: Right. Mhmm. And I've actually had conversations, with Jamil about this. And, he's betting and I don't think he's wrong. He's betting that a lot of money is gonna eventually flow into the Midwest because, a, the numbers make ridiculous sense.

Jared: Yep.

Steve: And, b, people are just finding places to park their money.

Jared: Mhmm. You

Steve: see the stock market going crazy, real estate going crazy, crypto going crazy. People are just looking for somewhere to park their money. He thinks it might just flow the Midwest and they it's been a rental market for so long that but they might actually start experiencing appreciation.

Jared: Yeah. It'd be great.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Let's see what other questions there. So, Eilera was asking about marketing where you talked about that. Alexis wants to know how often how often do you pull your list?

Jared: The list I was pulling every every two months. The one that I was pulling, I was pulling directly out of the tax records. So I wasn't even paying for that list when I was doing it. I mean, I've I've paid for lists over the years and those I'm if I'm if I'm paying for a list, I'm probably marketing to that list, you know, five times or so because I wanna maximize it. But when I was pulling it directly from the tax records, I just I would just pull a new one every other month.

Steve: Alright. And then do you as follow-up question is are you using a whole open title policy?

Jared: On anything that I'm flipping or wholetailing, yes.

Steve: And Francisco wants to know if you were on a tight budget but want to do direct mail, do they have any suggestions? That's a tough question.

Jared: Yeah. This is a tough question. Direct mail is expensive, man. I would say, you know, I guess we'd have to define a tight budget but you know keep it super simple. Like the direct mail, I think people any type of marketing, I think people have a you know a tendency to overcomplicate it.

The I've used I use letters, right, but I think postcards can work just as well. So I would go with the postcard. It's cheaper. I would figure out a way to pull a free list versus having to like, you know, buy on list stores and and go from there.

Steve: You know what's fascinating? I used to think direct mail was expensive. But then once you hire cold callers and you text, right, or you do PPC or any other form of marketing, even RVM drops. With RBM drops, you have to drop tens of thousands of people where you can't just RBM drop, like Right. A thousand people and expect anything.

You have to drop a lot of people. It all works out to be about the same.

Jared: Yeah. Well, the the so the irony is, like, I I'll tell you a story. I remember one time I changed my mail piece. This guy sold me at a printing company. He sold me on the idea of sending out a mail piece that had, like, this fancy text responder thing on it where they could text and get the offer, and it was like a whole he said your response rate is gonna go through the roof.

And it's true. My response rate was much higher, but it was way more crap leads. Mhmm. And it was just more garbage to sift through to get to the deals. The number of deals were really not any different than the mail piece I was sending before.

But I was just doing way more work comping all these additional properties from people that wanted an offer. And I find that that's kind of been my experience with Facebook and with cold calling. I go through, you know, direct mail, I'm anywhere from 12 to 15 leads per contract. Whereas cold calling, I'm like fifty, sixty leads per contract. Facebook, fifty, sixty leads.

It's a lot more legwork to just get to the good one. Mhmm. So you end up paying for me either way.

Steve: Yeah. It's it's it's I I after going through all my experience, I don't think direct mail is expensive anymore Yeah. Relatively speaking.

Jared: Well, and and and if you value if you put a value on your time as opposed to just the money that you're spending on it, then it's like a no brainer, right? I would much rather have fewer leads that are higher quality and more likely to convert into deals than just a boatload of leads that are 90% junk.

Steve: Right.

Jared: You know?

Steve: So I see you, you know, posting a lot. Instagram, Facebook, kind of live vicariously through you. Right? Single, traveling the world. I remember you had this ridiculous motorcycle in Vietnam.

In Vietnam. Do you have any concerns, problems, you know, like, there's this thing that happens as you become more successful. And I think that's something that affects a lot of newer people getting into the business. Whereas you have success and you share your success, people kinda don't like you for that. Do you have any of that experience?

Jared: I mean, I would say I really I really try to remain humble and I live fairly modestly for my income and the success that I've had. I don't I wouldn't say that it's I've experienced like any sort of I mean, I they're haters. Right? Let's let's be honest. There's haters.

Yeah. I did I did go through a divorce recently. I was married for a couple of years and I went through a divorce and she came after me for a lot of money. Mhmm. That was a a big learning lesson, you know.

So anyone new or getting into relationships, I would I would say, you know, protect yourself. Mhmm. And, you know, if you're getting into a business partnership, protect yourself. Right? Prenups and business, contracts Yeah.

With a clearly defined exit if it doesn't work out, I think are necessary.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jared: I lost a lot of money and I learned a lot from it. But as far as, you know, how it's, like, affected relationships with other people, I can't say it's had a huge impact. I Mhmm. I'm I'm pretty low key. I've got a I'm I'm not seeing one anymore.

I've got a girlfriend now. She's amazing.

Steve: Yeah.

Jared: You know, but but I I I'm fairly low key. So I haven't had as many haters as as people that are maybe in the in the spotlight and more publicly known.

Steve: So I've kinda gotten the the so the reputation, I always say be careful with partners. Right? Like, you know, don't do a partnership unless you absolutely have to.

Jared: Mhmm.

Steve: You see you mentioned having a clean exit or a contract, whatever. Mhmm. What are some things that someone needs to look at if they're, like, thinking about doing a partnership, doing this wholesale business together?

Jared: So my suggestion, I've had a couple different people approach me with, you know, the proposition of partnering. And I I've considered it. I've never, you know, followed through with any of them because it just never felt right. And I again, I I like simplicity. I like what I have going on.

I don't feel the need to complicate my life with a partner but but partnerships can also be like really beneficial. And my suggestion for anyone considering getting into a partnership is to partner with someone in business who you know offsets your qualities like you want a yin and yang. You want one person to complement your skill set not you know the two of you are good at the exact same things. That would be my suggestion. Right?

But my other suggestion is to get divorced before you get married so to speak. What does it look like if six months from now, a year from now, three years from now, this just isn't working and you know for whatever reason you wanna dissolve the partnership. Nobody wants to be in court battling and fighting and spending a bunch of money on attorney's fees for, you know, a year, however long it takes to to sort through all that stuff. So outline it in the beginning. What is the worst case scenario and what does that look like and how do we make a clean break if this doesn't pan out the way we think.

And then there's a lot less confusion and things to sort out if if and when that day comes, you know, hopefully it doesn't but

Steve: I love the way you put it though. Get divorced before you get married.

Jared: Yeah.

Steve: No. It makes a lot of sense. So you've got a lot of properties. I would imagine your tax liability is not very high.

Jared: You'd be surprised. So on the I mean, I do enough revenue in my wholesaling and flipping business that I pay a lot in taxes. A lot more than I'd like to. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. Still. Well, that's that's one of the reasons why I'm intentionally acquiring more rental properties.

Jared: Yeah. But I will say owning real estate has incredible tax benefits. I got a great accountant who, you know, handles all that stuff for me. I ask a lot of questions and and I, you know, I I read books on it too and educate myself. I don't just strictly rely on him, but I I, you know, I did a few years ago.

I did a cost segregation study on a bunch of my rentals. I think it saved me almost $50,000 in taxes that that one year. So now every year, I do a cost seg on anything that I've acquired that year that, you know, that makes sense to do the the study on.

Steve: So let me ask you this because cost segregation is something that comes up a lot, you know, in our masterminds and so on. And they talk about, you know, doing bonus depreciate bonus depreciation to reduce your tax liability that year. You're basically just bringing it in earlier. Yeah. Are you ten thirty and wanting in that so that you can do it again or do you just keep that property forever?

Jared: I've never done a ten thirty one exchange. It's probably something I should educate myself on and and get familiar with because I do think as I you know, as I buy more and more real estate or especially as I acquire larger, you know, assets that it it probably will make sense to start ten thirty one ing and saving the tax because I mean I I've only sold a a few of my rentals. So I try not to sell anything. But I'm also kicking around this idea right now, like, in this market that we're in right now, the values are so high that I'm realizing, you know, if I don't sell it when it's at this value, I'm essentially buying it again at a much lower cap rate.

Steve: Right.

Jared: Because if I could move that money somewhere else, I could probably get a higher yield and, you know, make put it to better use. But I don't wanna pay the taxes. And so the $10.31 thing is it's not something that I've done, but probably something that I'll I'll educate myself on and try. Yeah.

Steve: I need I need to talk to someone really smart about this thing because we talk about bonus depreciation. That's cool. Right? You're reducing your tax liability. But if you ten thirty one it, you don't have to repay it.

Jared: Right.

Steve: And then you can depreciate the next asset. Yeah. So why not bonus depreciate ten ten thirty one bonus depreciate? Because once you do your bonus depreciation, there's no more depreciation.

Jared: Yeah. Right?

Steve: So the rest of the time, the lifetime of the asset. So why not ten thirty one and do a bonus depreciation again?

Jared: Yeah. I I I I don't know. I I think you might have to repay it. I'm not positive.

Steve: At ten thirty one, I don't think you have to recapture.

Jared: I don't know. That's a good question.

Steve: Need to find someone really smart. Guys, if you if there's someone listening that's really smart about accelerated depreciation and ten thirty ones, I would love to have a conversation about this. Maybe we'll record it, post it in our in our in our podcast. So guys, if you have any more no more questions, we we'll we'll wrap it up here. So I want you to think about any last thoughts that you wanna leave them with.

I think you've had a lot of powerful messages, but leave a last, come up with a last thought. Guys, if this was valuable for you today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. It's the signals we need to give to Facebook, to you to tell them that this is valuable content so we can reach more people, so we can create more millionaires. Tune in next week. We got Brian, a rep who is flying in from Houston.

He's gonna be talking about how he was able to make 6 figures a week during COVID using creative financing. Right? So if you wanna make a little more revenue, you wanna learn about creative financing, Brian's the guy. So last thoughts.

Jared: Last thoughts. Okay. A couple things. Just to reiterate, right, enjoy the success along the way. Mhmm.

There's a great book that I read once called The Top Five Regrets of the Dying. That's a

Steve: great book.

Jared: Hey. You know the book. It's a fantastic book. And this girl what it is is this girl, works for she's a caregiver for people who are elderly and dying in the terminal in most cases. So she she has conversations with them about their regrets in their lifetime.

And a lot of these people say, I wish I wouldn't work so hard. I wish I would have spent more time with family. I wish I would have done I wish I would have done the things I wanted to do. Right? And I think that is such a crucial error on the part of so many entrepreneurs who have all this success.

And it's like it's ingrained in us to keep pushing and grinding and building and doing more and being more. And somehow, like, so many people, myself included, get lost in that journey and like life will pass you by really quick. But the reality is, you know, I don't want to be at the end of the road super rich and looking back at all the opportunities that I missed that I things I should have known or having regrets. Right? And and the truth is, I mean, nothing's promised.

Like, I get killed in a car accident tomorrow. I could get paralyzed in a snowboarding accident next month. And I guarantee you, I wouldn't be laying in that bed thinking I wish I would have worked harder and and made more money. I'd be thinking, man, I wish I would have I wish I would have gone to Vietnam. I wish I would have, you know, taken that trip to Turkey.

I wish I would have done the things that I really wanna do. I wish I would have spent more time with my family. So those things I think are so important. And, success is amazing and it's it's important, but you gotta enjoy it along the way. Right.

Steve: And

Jared: you just gotta carve out time. Like, people always ask me how do you just stop everything and take off? And I'm like dude, I just I close my eyes and I book the trip. Like, I literally don't think about it. I just force myself to do it because you know I I don't know if I'm gonna have that opportunity later on.

Steve: Yeah.

Jared: The other thing that I'll say, final thought, is you know as wholesalers and real estate you know investors were exposed to so many good deals and good properties. And, you know, I knew a lot of people back in the days of the trustee sale that wholesaled a ton of deals and made millions of dollars and didn't keep a single one. And the truth is this market that we're in it's not going to last. These prices aren't going to keep going up forever, right? It's going to correct at some point.

And and no matter how good you are at something your income can change, your business can change, the market can change. So You

Steve: experienced that with COVID.

Jared: Yeah. So my advice to people is always like just save some of those properties for yourself, right? Stockpile if you know Rentals aren't for everyone. Not everyone wants to be a landlord or have a rental portfolio.

Steve: There's other ways that can

Jared: There's other ways to create passive income and freedom from this business, but I always, you know, I'm biased obviously, but I always suggest to people don't be one of those guys who wholesales a million deals and then has no portfolio. And one day, if wholesaling in the model of wholesaling changes or your income goes down, you suddenly, like, don't have this you aren't able to sustain the same lifestyle that you want. Right? So that's my advice. So save some of those properties, build build a portfolio, create passive income, and that's true freedom.

Steve: Yeah. I was actually reading a statistic last week. I was like, there's no way this could accurate. Only 16% of realtors have rental properties. Yeah.

It's so sad Yeah. For an industry where you buy and sell real estate. Crazy.

Jared: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So thank you.

Jared: Yeah, man. My pleasure. It was fun. Thanks for having me.

Steve: Thank you guys. See you guys next week.