Why Land is the Best Investment

Anthony Gaona: Is probably the the bravest mistake that a real estate investor can make is you do some deals, you do some flips, then you take your own capital, and then you reinvest it. This is the worst way to get rich ever.

Daniel Martinez: Land has trillions of dollars of dead equity.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: It's dead.

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we have Daniel Martinez and Anthony Gaona with Hivemind, and they flew in from San Antonio, Texas to talk about why land is the best investment. It's a pretty bold claim, so we'll see where this goes. Guys, I'm gonna make sure to create a 100 millionaires.

Information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire. In the next five to seven years, you'll take consistent action. You will become one. Guys, if you get value out of the show, please hit that subscribe button. Stop keeping us a secret.

That way we can help and grow more people together. You guys ready?

Anthony: Absolutely.

Steve: Alright. So, start with you, Daniel. What was life like right before you got into real estate?

Daniel: Oh, man. I was a I was a truck driver. So, that's actually how we met. So we met September 2019. I drove a truck out here to come to your first sales sales sales, trainings.

Anthony: Yep. And so it's

Daniel: been an interesting journey being here full circle four and a half years later, so it's interesting.

Steve: Makes sense. Still remember you driving the truck

Anthony: all the way

Steve: out from Atlanta. Right?

Daniel: I was probably is my little one that's done that?

Steve: Mhmm. You're the only one that drove a semi across the country. I I don't know how many drove across the country, but you're definitely the only one that drove an actual truck across the country. Because I still remember, you were out there as me, you, Pace. Yep.

Right? I think Stratton might have been there. Yep. We had a couple people that came for a live sales training. Yep.

And, we all took a picture next to your semi.

Daniel: I don't have that picture. I was actually trying to hopefully put it on the podcast. Maybe we'll find it and put it on later.

Steve: Oh,

Daniel: I don't have it. But I only have a picture of me, PACE, and, Sage Eric Sage.

Steve: Yeah. So we might have to hit up PACE because I think PACE is the one that took the picture.

Daniel: Awesome. There it is. I don't have it.

Steve: So we have proof if we can get it

Daniel: fixed. Happened.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. But I still remember. Right? Because, like, you know, Pace and I, we did our, you know, five 5AM runs, and only a handful of people did it, and you drove a truck across the country.

Daniel: Well, yeah. I've been I forgot about that. I drove to the park. Yeah.

Steve: You drove to the park.

Daniel: Like, three to your parking spots, and I've been to the park

Steve: at five parking.

Daniel: Well, because, like Fair. I'm not a morning person. And since I was in the East Coast at that time, I was like, hey. I might as well go to the park, and I was with the Pat Boys at the back at back of the line. Because everybody's running the mile.

Like, all the skinny guys are all running, running, running, and I'm like, I'm gonna stick with the Fat Boys because I'm out of town.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. We did break out in the Sep Burgers. I think you were with, I mean, no offense here. I think you were with Bryant

Daniel: Yeah.

Steve: Right, at that time. So or maybe it was very asymptomatic. I remember Those

Daniel: are both of them.

Steve: There you go. Perfect. And then, so but you're you're a truck driver. So what was that life like before you, you know, drove into real estate?

Daniel: Man, my first business is actually a trucking business. So I started a trucking business. I was a truck driver before that. And then I I was transitioning to real estate, and that's where I kinda met you. So I had all the time in the world to, like, listen to podcast.

So I'm actually a product of real estate disruptors, and it's coming full circle here. So I'm excited.

Steve: Oh, it's definitely coming full circle. How about you?

Anthony: Same thing, man. Was this a background question?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Well, what what was your life like before you got into real estate? Right? Like, what was whether the tribulations or dreams or whatever.

Like, why real estate?

Anthony: Man, I kind of it was just a big fluke, I think. So I was in construction my whole life. Mhmm. I was I was boxing at the time. I thought I was gonna be a famous boxer.

I'm, like, 12 years old. My dad's like, get in the truck.

Daniel: You're gonna work.

Anthony: So now I'm working for my dad's company, painting, painter's helper, that kind of stuff. I got really, really good at construction, and lead generation. Right? So eventually, I got to the point to where, you know, with my dad's company, it was either feast or famine. Like, we had a lot of money or no money at all.

A lot of work or no work at all. So I always found myself doing marketing. I was reaching out to contractors, trying to find new work so that we could eat, that kind of stuff, important things. So fast forward to 2018, I'm doing commercial roofing. Right?

So we do, like, a million dollar roof on a building. Mhmm. I was running a big roofing company with just my cell phone. So I'm doing all of the marketing. Right?

I have a professional marketing background for, like, fifteen years. But, you know, my friends were running multimillion dollar roofing companies, but they all had, like, construction crews and warehousing, office staff, and all this. And it's just me and the cell phone running, like, bigger companies than them. What I was doing is I was, like, helping sue the insurance company, and then I would collect the funds, and I would just wholesale the job to another roofing company.

Steve: Gotcha.

Anthony: Let them do it. Knock everything out. So I got to the point where with my family, I was looking to build a house. Mhmm. And I get on YouTube, and I googled how do you buy land for cheap.

Right? And I came across the term wholesaling. I was like, wait a minute. I'm doing these big roofing projects. Right?

And it takes, like, six months for fulfillment, but these guys are getting real estate contracts and then just selling them instantly, and then making similar money. So I was like, I'm gonna do this.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: Yeah. So just the grace of God, man, I got lucky. One of my first deals on a 46 acre land deal made, $85,000.

Steve: Yeah. I'm like,

Anthony: probably not gonna do houses.

Steve: So you were doing arbitrage, and we call it wholesale, but you're already sourcing opportunities and selling those opportunities without fulfillment. Yeah. Gotcha.

Anthony: And it was in construction. That's all I knew.

Steve: Yeah. Well yeah. That and that's your background. So, so you saw, you're looking to buy land for development development. Is that what you said?

Anthony: To build a house for my own family.

Steve: Build a house for yourself. Gotcha. And then you saw along the way, it's like, wait a minute. These guys are buying real estate and selling real quick. So then what was that jump like then?

Tell me, like, you know, what was the how long from when you saw that till you actually did your first deal? When you started your real estate business, it was with the dream to change the world and make an impact. The reality is you might not be near that. If you're like many investors, you might be frustrated. You just can't succeed in getting your salespeople to do what they know that they should do.

They operate on their own terms. Meaning, they don't follow your process that you know produces consistent results. So each month feels like a roller coaster because revenue is coming in inconsistently. How relieving would it be if your salespeople did follow your proven process, were receptive to feedback and training, and could be held accountable to the results that leads to their success and your success? Would your company stop riding in the roller coaster of revenue, frustration, and drain?

And that's why we brought in Wren Bartlett. He's built a business that's wholesale a 100 plus houses a month. The people he brings into his business are bought into the process. They have a deep understanding of their role and are excited to be held accountable because as a business owner, he truly knows their deeper why so that we can demonstrate that our company is here to provide for their true purpose. If you'd like to finally stop dreading managing people who don't follow a process, produce inconsistent results, and aren't bought into your company, sign up for our sales leadership program to end the emotional stress of inconsistent results and finally have a fulfilling business working with people you want to be around.

Anthony: Dude, so I'm an all in kinda guy. Right? I don't think about things. So I think what I lack in, like, intelligence or whatever, just make up for impure action.

Daniel: Mhmm.

Anthony: So I'm learning about wholesaling, like, mid December. By January 1, I launched, like, $30,000 worth of marketing because I already knew I was gonna get a deal. I've been I've been doing marketing for too long. I knew if I spent enough on marketing, for sure I'm gonna get a contract. There's no way that I couldn't.

So I wanna say it took me, like, five weeks to get my first contract. Mhmm. When I when I I did my first pull ever was 500,000 records, and I RVMed it, texted it, hired a VA, everything. I I ordered, like, a thousand bandit signs, made a bandit sign maker. My wife's right there.

She drove me around while I'm hanging up bandit signs. Like, I went all in, dude, a 110% in. Yeah. And I got a contract pretty quick, but I already knew, like, if I if I ran across enough leads, I'd eventually get a deal. I called everybody in San Antonio, like, all the gurus, and I had lunch with all of them, told them what I was doing.

Mhmm. So I identified who had, like, who was good at sub two, who was good at commercial, who was good at land. And so anytime I got that type of deal or lead, I would take it to that person and go have lunch with them and give it away.

Steve: So there's no middle of the road with you? No. Either all in or all out.

Anthony: Gotcha. Anybody that knows me, no. I'm a all in kind of guy. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. And then you immediately connected with all the viewers or the experts inside of San Antonio.

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: There's a lot of them in San Antonio. I don't know why there's so many in San Antonio, but there are a lot of them.

Daniel: For you to say that, it's crazy. Yeah. Phoenix is crazy.

Steve: Well, Phoenix is nuts as well. But to me, Phoenix makes sense. I don't know.

Daniel: I mean,

Steve: I could just be in my own world. Right? But, you know, we kinda all you know, in some way, this is gonna be kinda weird way to describe it, but we're all, like, little, like, descendants of John Terry. Right? Like, he was the big one, and then we all kinda, like, follow in his footsteps.

Anthony: Mhmm. Yeah.

Steve: In San Antonio, I don't think you guys have that. I don't think you have, like, one person you guys can all point to.

Anthony: Logan former? No. No. It's a it's a really, really good market with it's ripe with opportunity. I feel like it's the last Texas major city that's, like, been, unindustrialized or Yeah.

Hasn't been abused yet. Lots of green space.

Steve: You talk about, you know, like, the creative. Right? Because you got Charles. You got Michael. Mhmm.

You got,

Daniel: Logan. Logan. Logan

Steve: in commercial. Yeah. I mean, he's he's insane, with commercial. He's supposed to be coming on sometime in the very near future. I'm trying to think.

Who is him?

Anthony: Yeah. Bevan's there. You got Yeah. Mitsy. You got a there's a bunch of names there.

Steve: Oh, Mitsy's there too? Yeah. Okay. For some reason, I thought she was in Dallas. But, yeah, I mean, you guys have, like, a lot of names out there.

So you immediately just go all in on marketing, and then you meet all the, wholesalers that you can just sell deals to. I mean, that sounds like the ideal action. So how'd that work out?

Anthony: Amazing, actually, man. So I have a network marketing, like, multilevel marketing background.

Steve: Okay.

Anthony: So I already knew you you get around the people that are doing well, and then you just learn from them. Yeah. So that's what I did. I bought them all lunch, bought them all steaks. Right?

Went to lunch with everybody, and I immediately started just like they they took me under their wing. They saw that I I actually brought something to the table. Right. So I didn't

Steve: show up

Anthony: and say, hey. What can you give me? How can you help me?

Daniel: I came

Anthony: and I said, hey. Have a lead.

Daniel: Pick your brain. Don't say that.

Anthony: Yeah. Don't ever say that to anybody you wanna

Steve: learn from.

Anthony: Let's say pick your brain. So I I brought them the lead. Mhmm. And, they would just automatically start teaching me. I'll say, hey.

What do you want for? Like, I don't care, but you're gonna teach me.

Steve: Yeah. So MLM background. Yeah. Outside the construction component. Mhmm.

So were you successful in the MLM, Ralph?

Anthony: So I joined my first company. I think I was, like, 17 or 18. I was like, USANA, those kinds of guys. Mhmm. And I bombed at everything.

Didn't sign up anybody, you know, like, call your friends and family and sign this is not my personality type. But, there's a company called Empower Network. It's a guy named David Wood. And, I was gonna join that company. It's like a blogging based MLM.

It was weird. I wanna say it was probably twelve years ago or something. Yeah. I was looking to join the company, but I didn't know how to join. I didn't know what their website was.

I didn't know anything, but I wanted to follow this guy. So I found a video on YouTube where the gentleman was talking about, like, hey. Join my team in MLM, and he has his phone number in the in the description of the video. Mhmm.

Steve: I was

Anthony: like, this is genius. So I called him. I'm like, dude, I'm a join I wanna join Empower Network. I wanna join your team. He's like, perfect.

Sign me up. Good. He did coaching. He had all kinds of cool stuff, but it like, the the light bulb came on. He's like, man, I know how to do MLM now.

Mhmm. So I shut it down. I wasn't real too too interested in the product after a while. But when I found a a company called Power that I did wanna, you know, blow up in, I did the same exact strategy. I ran a YouTube video.

I ran ads to it, put my number in there. And, randomly, one day calls somebody calls me. They said, hey. You signed up four people in two days. How'd you do it?

I'm like, I did. So people were converting without me even talking to them. Yeah. I I nailed it, dude. I became one of the top guys in the company right away.

Yeah. And I figured, like, yeah, this marketing thing's starting to go good.

Steve: That's awesome. And the only reason I'm asking this is that, you know, MLM has a really bad

Daniel: Yeah.

Steve: Rap. Right? And I can't say it's undeserved. Even though I'm in one, I can't say it's undeserved. Right?

But the great thing about MLM is that most of the people that were successful in MLMs go off to do other things well.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Because, I mean, like, you look at entrepreneurship and, you know, do my own thing and, do my marketing, doing this. Like, you have to learn all these things, mindset. Like, you don't get in a w two world. Right?

I mean, like, I

Daniel: Leadership too?

Steve: Leadership. So I'll say, you know, between MLM and college, like, probably MLM, even though it's not

Daniel: Wow. That's a big statement.

Steve: Yeah. Even though it's not necessarily the best reputation. So so you said you started in December. Mid December, you said? Was your Yeah.

Anthony: So I just started learning. Yeah.

Steve: When was that exactly what year?

Anthony: '18.

Steve: Okay. So mid December eighteen. What is this thing? January, let's just drop 30,000 in marketing. February, you do your first day.

You said 80 something?

Anthony: I got my first contract was actually a house, and I I got into with a broker and agent. They walked with me, helped me drop the contract. It took months to close. That was the contract number one. Okay.

I wanna say the second one was a it was a 46 acre farm south of Fort Worth. Mhmm. And, again, I called the people that I thought might be able to help. They they kinda walked me through it. Mhmm.

I did a novation deal. Didn't know what the heck that was, but we gave the seller a certain amount down. She signed it over to me. I listed it. Sold 85 k.

Steve: Yeah. Wow. So that's pretty impressive. So there is the way you were saying, you know, I just dropped 30,000 because I knew this is gonna work.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: But there was never a moment of doubt in your head whether this was gonna work or not.

Anthony: I had to my marketing background was so extensive. Like I said, I I know, like, you spend enough dollars and you get conversions. You know, you have to be a genius. You could just be Joe Blow. So, yeah, I was very 100% sure that that we were gonna do some business.

Steve: Gotcha. Alright. So then how about you? Like, how long from, like, I'm gonna do it to

Daniel: So we we actually got the same course in December. We both started around January, same time. He told me to start looking to land because he got that that quick deal quick.

Anthony: He had

Daniel: marketing plan. I didn't have marketing plan at a few dollars a month. And, I contracted a few houses. Didn't work out. I had three contracts fall through.

Two, like, $20,000 sign that these fell through. One seller died. Right. Right before closing right before closing, I had another one that went through through foreclosure. I evicted the tenant, trashed it out, fixed the closing.

I was making, like, 25,000, then fell apart. Closed it. Crazy. Then he's like, dude, try, Lance. See what happened.

So literally, within, like, two weeks, I put a carrot site up, and, the Google Ads lady came in. I was afraid of sales, so I was, like, emailing her. Emailing her. Emailing her. I got the sorry.

I'm so sick. I'm a little irritated. So, I got the contract, through email. I found a buyer on Facebook Marketplace in in two days, sold it, made $6, and the rest is history. No no houses, no house deals, all land.

Steve: The first deal you locked up was through email.

Anthony: Through email.

Daniel: A 100%.

Anthony: You never talked to her on the phone. Never texted her.

Daniel: I never talked to the buyer either. So that tells you, like this is how our relationship goes. I'm allowed to the back end. He's a front end sales, contracting all that stuff. So I I do, like, agent calls now and stuff like that.

I've gotten I kinda grow this muscle. But back then, man, I was afraid to talk to anybody.

Steve: Okay. So then you guys connected pretty soon thereafter. Like, you guys said you said you guys were in the same course?

Daniel: Yeah. So Jalen White we both took Jalen White's course back in 2019.

Steve: Yeah. So

Daniel: That's how we connected.

Steve: So you guys connected. How soon from when you connected till you guys started working together?

Daniel: It was immediately, dude. It was it was like a year end.

Anthony: It was like a year end. Well, we were always networking.

Daniel: So We're always networking and communicating. Posted in the

Anthony: group something about, like, hey. Is anybody doing land? And, of course, crickets. Right? And then Daniel's like, hey.

Some land. And so we just started talking, and we we stayed connected. I noticed that he was really good at numbers. Right? So if I'm running comps, right, I'm just running there with,

Daniel: like, half a brain.

Anthony: Like, I could figure it out sooner or later. I took pre cal in college. Yeah. So but I would notice when I would send him something, and he he would send back to comps, like, within minutes. I was like, what the heck did this guy do?

Mhmm. And then anytime there was anything that was numbers, percentages, anything, he would come back in, like, seconds. And I'm like, okay. That's something that might have taken me thirty minutes, an hour, and this guy's knocking it out quick. So we immediately identified each other's strengths and, like, hey.

Can you call this seller for me? I got this lead. Mhmm. So we immediately just started leaning on each other back and forth. So it was it was a hive mind since day one.

Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So you guys were, closely working together from the get go. How many deals did you guys collaborate on before you guys decided, like, you know what? Let's just be partners.

Anthony: I want I mean,

Daniel: I like five. I was

Anthony: gonna say, yeah. It was it was like it was just a few. Just a handful, but we all we just started leaning on each other immediately. Like, hey. I need earnest money for this.

Hey. I need can you help me with this contract? Like, just right away, we just kinda felt that vibe. And he never asked me, like, hey. Well, what's in it for me?

Mhmm. And I never asked him either. Like, what's in it for you? We just we just automatically started clicking. And, I would say we started the Hivemind thing just over three years ago, and I had this business idea.

Daniel: 2021?

Anthony: It was, like, one in the morning when I'm telling Daniel about it. And he was like, that's a great f n idea. I'm like, it sure is, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

So it was it was kinda just all very fluid, man.

Daniel: Sure. Yeah.

Steve: So then, after a a few deals and about a year, you guys decide to partner up.

Daniel: Yeah.

Anthony: So there's lose partnership. We didn't sign agreements or nothing. We were we were just helping each other.

Daniel: It was a handshake agreement. Okay.

Steve: Is that still a handshake agreement, or is the things they're in writing now?

Anthony: But now we got joint LLCs, trust, all that stuff. Yeah.

Steve: Alright. So what are some of the challenges you guys had initially working together?

Daniel: I think we work really well together because, like, he has the strengths and I have my strengths. So we work, like, the yin and yang side of it. So, we really, like we never really we even to this day, we don't fight about stuff because we're both just working. Like, I don't have to ask him, like, what did you do today? He didn't ask me what I did today.

Right. And we're both just working.

Anthony: And I

Daniel: live in California too, and he lives in San Antonio. So Yeah.

Steve: That's right. You moved to California. Yeah. Okay. So then you guys bought Jalen White's course.

Daniel: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And then you guys got out there and you hit it hard. And then you also talk to a bunch of other, you know, mentors in your market. What else who who was instrumental in helping you guys, you know, in the right direction?

Daniel: Everybody. I mean, it was I think land was the wrong direction. I think you kinda go down that path and you start coming across problems.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: The best way is doing the action of it. Mhmm.

Anthony: And then

Daniel: you come across different problems. We come we do, like, title situations, and we call Logan. And then he was mentioning Logan before Logan even started going out there. So he was like, oh, how to fix the title problem? And he was like, oh, we gotta do this, this, and this.

And he told me, okay. We gotta do this, this, and this. We kinda work through the problems. And then we, we got sub two. He talked to uncle Charles and Mike.

Mhmm. Boom. Boom. Boom. We're working through creative sub two.

Now we understand creative sub two, total title. And then we started looking for flip opportunities, and now we're just focusing on land and then doing all this other stuff that close down the line with it. Mhmm. And you get eventually get better over time, and you see a note for opportunities.

Anthony: Yeah. I would say the people that were instrumental for one, Logan Fulmer and his partner, Ryan McDonald. Mhmm. Ryan, I mean, are me like this now. I'd like to probably talk to him multiple times per week.

But it was them two, Mike and Charles for sure. They both spent a lot of time with me when I was a new kid. Like, I was I wasn't even doing deals yet.

Daniel: Mhmm. Yeah.

Anthony: Charles stayed till, like, 09:00 at night one time, like, on a Friday or Saturday. It was crazy. And he just got off the whiteboard and just went to town. So Mike and Charles for sure. Logan and Ryan, Mitsy went with me to lunch a bunch of times.

Corey Thompson, man. He's one of the guys that took us under his wing and, like, he's you know, he could be a little abrasive. Right? It's a little hard to get in his good graces. For whatever reason, man, we just clicked since day one, and I just I just like how genuine he is and honesty is.

Yeah. So, yeah, I think some of those names and I'm sure there's a lot more, and somebody's gonna cuss me out after this, but those are ones that I could

Daniel: see right now. People. And it was it was it wasn't like any one person, even you because you with the podcast, we learned stuff from your guest. So, like, it was a culmination of a lot of different things. And I think a lot of people, they get stuck in that one.

Like, I I think, make war with many counselors.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: And, like, we never met or talked to some of these people, even people your guest. But it was just one of those things where we got information from all over the place and kinda piece it together based off of what we are doing in our business today, and that's how we kinda came up with what we do. I'll tell

Anthony: you then. Yeah. I was watching real estate disruptors, like, every episode, like, binge watching, dude, for, like, a whole year. Like, no TV, no radio, nothing. I was watching your show, and I this is freaking amazing.

I'm a be on that show.

Steve: Oh, I love it. I love that. So, yeah. And you talk about Charles. I mean, Charles is the guy that, you know, he'll take his shirt off your back off his back to truly help you out.

Right? Yeah. Totally selfless. And you talk about Corey Thompson. I love Corey.

Daniel: I love Corey too. Right.

Steve: He's He's

Anthony: like a brother to me, dude. Yeah.

Steve: He's he's a he's he's a great BS detector.

Daniel: Yeah. He

Anthony: does. And he'll call you out on it.

Steve: He'll call you out on it. He might be wrong sometimes

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: And he'll admit it. Yeah. Right? And then, you know, he's like the baller busters for real estate.

Anthony: So we keep

Daniel: that's why we keep him close. So we we do an we do an annual event every year, and Corey spoke every year.

Anthony: Yeah.

Daniel: And he'll bring his little entourage with him, and we'll have fun. And it's just it's a fun time with him. He's always a he always brings a little spark.

Steve: Yeah. He's a character, and, yeah, he's not he's he's not afraid to to speak his mind.

Daniel: Absolutely.

Steve: Okay. So, you said that you started doing land, and then there's other things that come along with it.

Daniel: Mhmm.

Steve: So your core focus is still land.

Daniel: It's still land, but, like, different versions of land. Like, when we first started, it was, like, flipping. Then we got, like, creative financing Mhmm. The seller financing wraps, and then it turned into, like, a subdivide. And now we're doing entitlements.

So it's like we kinda went down that path, and the deeper you go down, the door opens up a little bit more, and you kinda see, like, oh, that's interesting. Let's let's try and do that. So, like, we've learned like, our land knowledge is all, like, exponential, and we're still learning. Like, even we we talked to our engineer today, and the engineer's like, oh, that's amazing. We should look more for that opportunity.

Mhmm. So, like, as we as we go further down into it, we're learning and becoming very skilled at it.

Steve: Yeah. So you're talking about, like, you know, this engineer's finding these ideas. Like, what is, like, your latest rabbit hole you guys have?

Anthony: Latest rabbit hole has to be the actual entitlement process itself. Yeah. Right? Because, we could take a 100 acre ranch, buy it for a million dollars, survey it off into several pieces, flip it, sell some for cash, some for notes. Mhmm.

Amazing deal.

Daniel: And you

Anthony: can make a couple $100 to a million dollars just doing that alone. Mhmm. Now when it comes to entitlements, now we're looking at flood zone and endangered species, and you're going down all these different like, what the TXDOT, the Texas Department of Transportation

Daniel: Roads.

Anthony: Dealing with the county, putting in roads, like, soil compaction. You know? Like, holy smokes. Like, this leads to a lot of different places. So that's probably been, like, the biggest count of barns we've ever opened.

So we're not gonna change our business model. We're gonna keep cutting up branches in Texas. But, again, it's like, do you wanna make 500,000 on this deal, or do you wanna push it to, like, 5,000,000 profit on this deal? Same exact deal. Yeah.

Right? Without ever breaking ground. So that's what we're trying to look at both things without completely changing our core business model.

Steve: Yeah. And entitlement is, you know, it's a crazy concept. You know? I first heard about entitlements, I wanna say, in, like, 02/1011, or whatever on there. Right?

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: And it was a different situation because then they couldn't even give land away. Right? Like, you had land. You couldn't even give it away because it's upside down before you even bought and take it. Right?

Yeah. So they couldn't sell the land. They could only sell it for the cost of entitlement. So I was

Anthony: like Dang.

Steve: Hey. You know, you give me the $8,000 I spent on entitlement, you can have the land for free. That's the way it was it was because, again, we're talking about this is after the real estate crash. And all the developers that had the money to buy all these things, they killed it.

Anthony: Yeah.

Daniel: But

Steve: most people didn't have that kind of cash. Right? So but, yeah, I mean, for everyone that's listening right now, they might not be familiar with entitlement. I know you kinda kinda hit some things here. But for the people that are listening, that are unfamiliar with entitlements, because I think this is this could be a huge opportunity for somebody that's listening.

Yeah. What is entitlement?

Anthony: Yep. So it's the process of taking a raw piece of land. Right? So let's say you you get in any major city. You drive down any main highway that leaves the city.

We go right past the neighborhoods, and then we go to to the land where it's just raw land, the farm. You piece some cows out there, or just some goats if you're in Texas, probably in a lot of other places. Yeah. But, you take that raw piece of land, and then you repurpose it. So it could be zone like unzoned.

It could be agricultural. It could be residential if it's inside the city. Mhmm. You take it, and, you apply with the county, the city, everybody that wants to talk to you, fire marshal. Right?

And, you usually hire an engineer. You rezone it. So you you repurpose it. So let's say it was residential, single family residential houses. You throw a couple $100 at it, and now the city says, hey.

You can build apartments here.

Steve: Mhmm.

Anthony: So the same piece of land without ever breaking dirt goes in value of 250,000 to $8,000,000. Mhmm. Right? Just within maybe a year, year and a half time span and a couple $100,000. So you just repurpose the land, and get everybody to approve you for doing a different use for that property.

Steve: Right.

Daniel: Yeah. And the the developers like it too because they don't have to wait for that timeline of actually doing that work. So they'll they'll come in and, like, hey. I can buy this today and put a shovel in it tomorrow. Okay.

I'm gonna buy the opportunity. So that's what they're

Anthony: looking for. With the money don't wanna wait. So they buy back their time by paying you to do the entitlement process. Right.

Daniel: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So I heard someone do a presentation on this at at Collective Genius. I wanna say about I about a year ago, maybe less. But, yeah, that was that was his business model. He would just buy land.

He would get it entitled, and he would sell it without ever putting a shovel on the ground. But for him, it was always he would buy it subject to entitlement.

Daniel: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? So, like, hey. I will buy this land if I can get the entitlement approved. If I can't get the entitlement approved, you can have it back.

Daniel: Absolutely. Yeah.

Anthony: Yeah. So, furthermore, we'll give you the we'll give you all the paperwork you paid for. Yeah. And as we shake hands and and leave, but it's also a good way to lose 50 or a $100 if you don't know what you're getting yourself into.

Steve: If you don't know what you're doing

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: Yes. It can be really expensive because you're you're spending a lot of money to get something approved that might never get approved.

Anthony: Absolutely. So we're both gambling. Like, you gamble. You give me a year of your time and your property for a year. Mhmm.

And I'm gonna put in a couple $100 or $50, whatever the number is. And then, hopefully, on the back end, we both make profit. But if not, I give you all that paperwork, shake hands as friends, and I'm out of here.

Steve: Exactly. So now you mentioned that you're trying to figure out a better business model. Do I want to keep doing what I'm doing, or do I wanna do entitlement?

Daniel: Mhmm.

Steve: What are the factors we're considering and trying to figure out whether you wanted to entitle or not?

Daniel: So I I wanna cover a little bit back into this. So we kinda do we when we first started, we did not start with entitlements. It's a very high level thing that we got to.

Steve: So We're just talking about the rabbit hole right now. We're still we still have to go back to the land.

Anthony: Okay. Okay. Yeah. The late the land the land

Daniel: is crazy. So you can find flip opportunities to make $8.06 figure spreads pretty easily, and they're out there. I just interviewed a a client slash student of ours. He found a $230,000 deal for $30, sold it for $30 down. Making 4,500 a month for sixty months

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Net cash flow.

Steve: Yeah. So

Daniel: we wanna talk about cash flow

Anthony: a lot of houses.

Daniel: That's a lot that's a lot of that's a lot of cash flow Mhmm. With no maintenance, repairs, nothing. So, like, I I I I'm always I love Twitter, so I'm always, like, beating up people. Like, somebody tweeted today. It's like, oh, what's the best investment class to to invest in?

Anthony: No. They said what what to stay away from, I think.

Daniel: No. No. What what's the best investment class to invest in? Wrong answers only. Wrong answers only, so I put SFR.

And then everybody's like, oh, why SFR? Because I'm like, it doesn't cash flow. Like, when your AC or roof goes out, there goes two years of cash flow. Mhmm. So with with land, you can add value or find value through arbitrage or pricing, and you can create notes and create, like, a crazy yield out of nothing

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: That doesn't even exist.

Steve: And, like,

Daniel: what do your end buyers do with it? I don't know. It's not my business. My business is writing good paper.

Steve: Mhmm.

Daniel: Mhmm. I go to properties. So it's like you can do flips to create large amounts of value, and you can do create cash flow to create large amounts of cash flow.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: And that's why land is the best asset.

Steve: So I wanna get back to that. The the factors on entitlement. Mhmm. What are you considering?

Anthony: Okay. So we have a first of all, we have a a lens that we view deals through. Yeah. The quickest way to do is a 10 acre subdivide. Right?

Again, you buy a 100 acres, you cut it out, up, sell it. That's lens number one. If we can do that profitably, now we're interested in the deal. But now we're gonna look at things like, does the property have sewer connections? Yep.

Right? What's it zone for? What kind of does it have groundwater? How close to the city is it? Right?

What's going up around it? So all those things would would we could learn to decide. So right now, we picked up a ranch for 8,000 acres, like $2,000,000. And, we noticed that everything in that area is going for 20 plus thousand dollars an acre. How do we know?

Because we sold one right up the road. Mhmm. Right? So now we're like, okay. We can cut this thing up.

We can sell it. We can make make about 1,000,000 cash in, like, twelve months or so. But if we spend about 500,000 on engineering, right, now we're getting offers for right under $5,000,000.

Steve: Right. Right?

Anthony: On something that we paid 2,000,000 for. So it's like, do we wanna hold on to it and and push this thing to, like, two to three to four million dollars, or do we wanna just grab the million and move on to the next one?

Daniel: So I

Anthony: think it depends on demand. Right? What area you're in. If this thing was ten more minutes south, we might not have done any entitlements at all. Let's chop it up, sell it, move on to the next one.

Mhmm. So I think that's that's probably the the most important thing is, like, hey. How much time and cash would we invest into this thing? And how what what kind of exponential return can we pull out?

Daniel: Right.

Anthony: Then that's probably the biggest indicator. Like Return

Steve: return cash, return on time.

Anthony: There you go. Yeah. So should should we put actually twelve months into this thing and and make the the the return go up three x? Like, yeah. This this is a great area, great opportunity.

Lots of development happening around there. You know, ten minutes outside the city Mhmm. Is perfect.

Daniel: Yeah. The 10 acre lots of divide, we did one in under ninety days. Contracted it and sold it ninety days. So that's the quickest way to cash, so within the land space that we do. So we always look through that first lens, like you said.

So

Steve: Are you looking at land and then see if we can send these into 10 acre?

Daniel: 10 acre plus lots. Sometimes it's 20. Sometimes it's 30. But, you know, how public the land is, we can cut it up without going through county approval in Texas.

Anthony: Alright. So this is probably the single most important thing. If you let's say you took a 20 acre lot and you cut it down into one acre lots. That's a year. I don't care how you look at it.

Nine months to a year, right, on a small piece of land. Mhmm.

Daniel: But if

Anthony: you took a 200 acre plot and cut it

Daniel: up, as long as you

Anthony: stay above 10.01 acres in Texas, it'll be done, like, in two months. Mhmm. Maybe three months total, and you're out the door. So sometimes we're we have we're sold out before we have to close.

Steve: Alright.

Anthony: Right? So

Steve: So it's something, particular in Texas where you wanna be over 10 acres where, the the red tape

Anthony: is a

Steve: lot shorter.

Daniel: It's nonexistent. Yeah.

Anthony: From what I've been told or what we've been told, it works like in 18 states, probably red states. Right? Yeah. But, that's that's where it's a it's a pretty simple game. As long as you cut out big pieces, nobody bothers you.

They're not worried about it. Like, we can fix it later if you make a mistake.

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: Right? But once you start cutting up one and two acre tracks, now it affects drainage. It affects the neighbors. Like, you got a whole whole other set of problems that are coming in.

Steve: So Got to store all the calculations.

Anthony: There's a lot of different governing bodies that wanna take a look at it.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And that makes total sense. Alright. Because how many houses can you actually fit on this?

But 10 acres, whatever. We'll figure it out. One acre lots. Alright. Well, what's the density?

How much water they're gonna need And so on. That's what you're talking about.

Daniel: Yeah. Everything.

Anthony: So we find there's limited water. There's, like, just different challenges. Like, the city will be like, hey, there's only a three inch water line there. Like, we're not gonna be able to give you 180 meters. Mhmm.

Right? We can give you six. Like, well, dang it. From 20 acre track, let's do it. Right?

So quick in and out depending on what's around us and again, how far we are from civilization.

Steve: Alright. Gotcha. That makes total sense. So you're talking about the cash flow and component. Yeah.

And then the guy is buying it, seller finance, and selling it owner finance.

Daniel: So right now, we try and acquire seller finance.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: So that $2,000,000 deal, we got it for $500,000 down. Mhmm. 0% financing, 1.6 carried debt from the seller, payments 4,500 a month. If we go through and subdivide those lots and the 10 acre lots all the way through, it might produce 20,000 a month cash flow, and we give 4 to 4,500 to the seller. Mhmm.

So, like, we have opportunities to create through seller financing because land is under serviced when it comes to financing. Very, very under service. You can get there's billions and billions of dollars for every other asset class, but nothing for land. The banks won't even lend on it.

Steve: Under service for financing.

Daniel: Yeah. On Right. On the buy and sell side. Right. So sellers are kinda stuck in a rock between a rock and a hard place because no one can buy it unless you have cash.

And if you buy it cash, they're gonna get it discounted. Mhmm.

Anthony: And

Daniel: if they buy it financed, it's really hard to get bank financing as a whole. So everybody's always asking for seller financing.

Steve: For sure.

Daniel: So they're kinda stuck in limbo forever. So we always make the joke that land, literally nobody buys it. We've never been bought out in a deal. We just make the offer and wait six months, twelve months, and they come back to us again.

Steve: Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, I think looking my understanding, I don't do a lot of land. But, you know, I'm gonna be dating myself here, but, like, you know, back in my day.

I was learning a land. It was always ten ten ten. Right? It was 10% down, 10% interest in doing 10.

Daniel: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? So, I mean, is that rule ever mentioned anymore? Or is that or is that just, like, the old people?

Anthony: Same thing. Yeah. 1010% interest. We do we we're aiming at eleven nine nine when the rates went up. We were at 10.

Mhmm. But, yeah, 10% down and and 1012% interest works great.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So go ahead.

Daniel: We'll do it through up to thirty years, but it really depends on what they can afford. Mhmm. We kinda may mold the payment around them.

Steve: Gotcha. Who's buying your land?

Anthony: Dude, that's all retail end buyers. We don't have a buyers list at all. Mhmm. Zero buyers list. Yeah.

We just sell directly to end buyers.

Daniel: So we essentially have a wholesale model. So we do a lot of, like, grill marketing through Facebook and Facebook ads Mhmm. And then MLS, and then we pull payment signs out. So we do, like, every type of marketing channel because that's the other thing. Once you sit, like, forty five days in the MLS, you're gonna start getting beat up by by wholesalers By us and wholesalers.

Steve: These nasty wholesalers. I

Daniel: know. Terrible. Yeah. So our our whole goal is we're trying to move that property within under sixty days. Mhmm.

But if that the person people that come in week one, those are serious buyers. So we're always trying to offload and work with those people that come in early. Mhmm. Because we know how to price it. And if we're offering financing, hey, 10% down, like, okay.

How much is it per month?

Anthony: Mhmm. About

Daniel: 2,500? Okay. I got that. Don't worry about that.

Anthony: That's all we

Daniel: need to know.

Anthony: How much can they put down? Mhmm.

Daniel: How much

Anthony: can they afford months?

Daniel: It's almost like and then

Anthony: we can back into the years and everything else.

Daniel: It's like it's like used car sales.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: It's like used car sales because they back into the they back into the purchase price and the

Steve: I mean, new car sales is not that different.

Daniel: I mean, same idea. It's just car sales in general. Yeah. So we're like the car sales of real estate.

Steve: Yeah. So, so you take it down. You buy a seller finance, and then you list it on MLS. And then retail buyer comes along, and you sell it. Actually, seller finance.

Anthony: Yeah. In which way we can. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So then you guys are getting pretty comfortable with notes then, I would imagine.

Daniel: Absolutely.

Steve: Okay. Which is different than land.

Anthony: Our note game's getting pretty crazy.

Steve: Alright. So how who is helping you guy? Who's helping you guys get good in notes?

Anthony: For one, experience. But for two, we're we're just we're learning from a lot of people. Mhmm. I think even the note buyers, right, those guys are really seasoned, and they're really good.

Steve: So They ask all their good questions.

Anthony: Yeah. So what what

Daniel: did you ask again? You need what?

Anthony: Okay. Let's write that down. So we're learning from them. There's a guy named Jaime Fadia out of Texas who taught taught us a lot about financing and interest rates and how to play with the notes. Older gentleman named Tom Henderson, who's, like, one of the best that ever lived, like a guru type.

Mhmm. We've been to his seminar. I got his his book, but then we didn't realize that land I mean, notes is its own universe.

Steve: It's his own world.

Daniel: It's its own universe. Yeah. So most of the people that that do notes, they can't create them. So we kind of fit in between all of them because we're practicing notes. We're also creating them too.

Mhmm. So we get to play on both sides of it.

Anthony: Yeah. Like note buyers that they have trouble, finding the notes to

Daniel: buy. Mhmm.

Anthony: Right? And we're mass producing them.

Steve: Alright.

Anthony: We need help.

Steve: You guys ever work with Eddie?

Anthony: We we we interviewed him one time, and I I think he taught us just enough in that interview for us to be able to run with it. I think that was a big paradigm shift for us.

Steve: Well, I guess the reason I'm bringing up Eddie Eddie Speed is that he has, like, a marketplace.

Daniel: Yeah.

Steve: Right? But it doesn't really or I guess, are you guys just holding on to the notes?

Anthony: We're doing Not by choice.

Daniel: We're we're doing we're doing a little bit of everything right now. So right now, we've been kinda arbitrating the notes. We've been selling the notes. We'd like to keep them and then leverage them again, but that's a whole another strategy in itself. But we're we're we're working our way into keeping them and Mhmm.

So we're circling

Anthony: we were doing in the beginning as we needed capital because we did the I think this is probably the the gravest mistake that a real estate investor can make is you do some deals, you do some flips, then you take your own capital, and then you reinvest it. Ever. Yeah. Right? Knowing what we know now.

So that's what we've been doing for five years. And, as soon as we create the notes, we would liquidate, either pay the seller off, make a little bit of profit in our pocket, roll on to the next. So we're getting to the point to where our volume's increasing so much that we're getting stuck with notes. Right? The buyer's interest rates went up.

Note buying game goes down. So now we're pushing $2,000,000 worth of notes. And it wasn't our intention to hold on to them, but we have them. So it's kinda like the notes are becoming a byproduct of our business model. So

Steve: that's it.

Anthony: Both enjoyable and traumatizing at the same time.

Steve: How is it enjoyable?

Anthony: Well, starting to get, the the cash flow, the passive cash flow starting to build up. Right? Alright. The golden rule for land is land doesn't cash flow. Mhmm.

But, you know, it looks like it's cash flowing on our side. Yeah. Right. And it wasn't the intention because eventually we thought we would keep them at some point, but we didn't know because the market was gonna crash and no buyers were gonna stop buying. So

Steve: In what ways has it been a problem?

Anthony: Well, being able to get in and out of deals. Right? So let's say the seller says, hey. I want a million dollars for this ranch. We come in.

We say, hey. We'll give you 200,000 down or 300,000 down. We chop it up, sell it. Some of it's cash moved to seller finance. We take bulk of the cash, give it to the seller, put some in our pocket, sell the rest of the notes to pay the seller off.

Mhmm. Well, if nobody's buying notes, like, hey, mister Seller, we're gonna be a couple 100,000 short by our closing date. Gotcha. Or at the end of the financing term. So there you have that that portion in there.

Steve: So the the the note you have with the seller, you can't pay them back because you can't get out of your existing note.

Anthony: Yeah. So we have the notes like, hey. You know, we we can get you paid out, but would would you

Daniel: take some notes as the rest of the

Anthony: instead of cash? Some say they say no, sometimes they say yes, but that's the challenge right now. Yes. Is being able to use that same, strategy that we've been using for a few years.

Daniel: We have a cash burn problem.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Not a cash flow because cash burn. Every time we create a note, it just absorbs equity

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Cash that we would could use and redeploy and all that other stuff. So Right. It's just cash burn. So we're always trying to redeploy and redistribute that.

Steve: Well, I mean That's the problem I think kinda happens in land. Mhmm. There were a a couple of guys on discount lots. You guys ever interact with them?

Anthony: No. It's called discount lots. Mhmm.

Daniel: Never heard of them.

Steve: So that's their problem is, like, they're buying all this land, and they're selling them on on terms. Right? And it's the same thing. It's like, the only thing that's stopping us is cash.

Daniel: Absolutely. Right?

Steve: Because, like, we can we can buy good land and we can cash flow. Right? But there's it takes time to recuperate the out of pocket. Right? So long term, it's a they got a great balance sheet

Daniel: Mhmm.

Steve: But not cash.

Daniel: Yep.

Steve: Alright. I imagine that's kinda what you're talking about as well.

Anthony: That's exactly what we've we've arrived to. Right? So now we came up with this crazy idea, like, let's start a fund. Mhmm. Right?

Because that 12% return is amazing. Right? If somebody just parks their cash there and they can get 12% back, and I'd have to think about it. So that's that's kind of our next direction. I was like, okay.

So I think we got really, really good at land. We got really, really good at lead generation. Right? We have an overabundance of leads. But now, like, I think and this is what I kind of alluded to earlier is that make making your own cash and redeploying it Mhmm.

Is not not the best way to get rich. Right? It's, cheap. It's not

Steve: it's the best way to get cash poor.

Anthony: Yeah. It was actually Corey Thompson that he sent me a it was one morning. He's he texted me a video. It was Grant Cardone, which I'm not a great big fan of Corey's. Is.

Mhmm. I think he's kinda cheesy.

Steve: Yeah. Corey loves Grant. I don't understand that. For someone that hates gurus, he really loves Grant.

Daniel: He really loves Grant.

Anthony: He's he said he sent he text me a link. Right? And I love Corey, so I'm gonna press play. Right? I just woke up.

And, it was his book, How to Get Super Rich or something like that. Uh-huh. And the only one sentence I needed out of the whole entire book is, like, just find somebody who's extremely wealthy and deploy their capital. Yeah. Seeing them more grand.

So I I it kinda clicked. So that's when I told Daniel, hey. We need to change our focus now into just raising capital. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, no matter what asset class you wanna get into, whether it's commercial or self storage or anything like that, if you have capital that's ready to deploy, then it makes everything else easy.

And what we've come to find out is that it's easier to borrow a million dollars than it is to borrow $10,000. Mhmm. Right? Because the person that could lend you 10 doesn't have it. But the guy that has a million, I was like, yeah.

Here it is. Paying back when it sells.

Steve: Alright.

Anthony: Oh, damn. I think we're onto something. So

Steve: Absolutely. We're headed next. So before we get into that, before we get into the fund, because I wanna talk about the fund. Mhmm. Talk to me about some of your biggest success stories with land.

Anthony: Okay. We got a couple of them.

Daniel: So I'm gonna start off small, and I like this deal because it shows that anybody can do it. So it's kinda barrier to entry beep barrier to entry deals. So we had a deal come in very brief. It was worth about 35 to $40,000. One thing that we love about land is there's no comps.

Like, we're kinda shooting in the dark. Yeah. This is and that's the best part about it because there's no verifiable comp.

Steve: You say that's the best part about it.

Daniel: That's the best that's the

Steve: best Some people are will be scared to death about that.

Daniel: That's the best part because as long as you know you have it under, you're gonna make money. You just don't know how much.

Steve: Alright. So as long as you buy it right.

Daniel: As long as you buy it right. Yeah. So we, the the deal came in through PPC, and, the guy wanted 15, which is already 50¢ on the dollar, and most people would jump all over that. The thing is that we know is that there's no buyers for this. We're like, yeah.

Let them go. Let them season a little bit. So he comes back three months later, and he's like, I need 15 for the slot. I remember you're interested. Like, what can you do?

I'm like, dude, $9,000. Right? It was $8,000. That's it. So he's negotiating with them.

$8,000. Alright. I'll take it. $8,000. So we get a contract for $8,000.

We immediately sold it on Facebook Marketplace for $8,000 down, 500 a month for five years.

Steve: Boom. Write it up.

Daniel: $8,000. The buyer gives us, goes straight to the seller, and now we hold the paper.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Easy deal. You can find deals like that very easily on the MLS marketplace market marketing in general. So that's kind of like our barrier to entry deal that we always talk about because anybody can find a $40,000 lot. There's some down the street you can pass up, and they're everywhere. Yeah.

So that's kind of the barrier to entry. And then we had, you know, talk about China deal?

Anthony: That's that's yeah. That's one of the first ones that I did. So, yeah, it's like 12:30 at night. Lord knows what I was doing. Wake Mhmm.

And I saw a number coming. It said China. And I'm like, damn scammers. Right? Because I had just set up my Google Ads.

And, the lady actually I called the number. Nobody answered. She calls right back. I was like, what the heck? So it's a lady that she's like a school teacher Mhmm.

In China. She's like, from here. And she's the one that had the property over there by Fort Worth. And she's like, I gotta sell this property and all this stuff. She's like, I I need to get 225,000 for it, 250,000.

And I'm like, dang. I don't have that kind of money. I just started. Mhmm. I don't know anybody that could lend it to me.

I So we stayed on the phone for, like, an hour. We're just laughing, talking, you know, just just having fun, like, just, you know, shooting them, you know, whatever. Mhmm. And, eventually, she says, yeah. And then the backside of the ranch backs up to, I 35.

And I said, wait a minute. I 35, $200,000, 40 acres. I was like, this is starting to sound like a deal.

Steve: It sounds like a really good deal.

Anthony: Where did you where did you say the property was? So I go straight to my laptop, checked it out, and I asked her. I said, hey. What'd you say what do you gotta get for this thing? And so we made an offer that night.

The next day, she calls me. She said, I need to talk to my son, see what he says.

Daniel: So she calls me the

Anthony: next day. She says, yeah. Go ahead and take the offer. Mhmm. And that's that first day where we got that big pot for 85.

Yeah. Was this we did a kind of novation deal. Mhmm. I I didn't know what to do. Right?

I'm completely lost. So I called Addison Blanks, a couple of guys that that I met So what what what's the best thing to do here? And he's like, well, how much money does she need right now? I don't know. I didn't ask.

Mhmm.

Daniel: So I called her

Anthony: and I said, hey. Look. I wanna get you the money. Let's go ahead and do the deal. I was like, what do you need to put in your pocket right away, you know, just to kinda get your head above water so that we can do this deal together?

And I told her I was gonna resell it.

Steve: I said

Anthony: I might split it up into a few pieces and sell it or whatever I can do here. And, she said, you know what? If I had $10,000 right now, you can take all the time you need. Done. Called my attorney, had him draw it

Steve: up. Yeah.

Anthony: Send her $10. She she put it in my name. I I list I listed it on MLS in the neighborhood. Damn.

Daniel: Okay. Good to go. Yeah.

Anthony: So Yeah.

Steve: So the quick 85, that's not that's not too shabby.

Anthony: Significant, man, for somebody that's just getting started, didn't have the confidence in what I was doing. So it was it was a really good win, man. It it really kinda set the bar for me. It's like, hey. I thought I was gonna flip houses.

Right? Because, like, I'm the best contractor that ever lived. I'm a licensed home builder, general contractor.

Steve: I'm just

Anthony: gonna kill it in remodeling. Right? But, it just yeah. As soon as I got that pop on land, I was like, okay. Yeah.

I need to I need to stick with this.

Steve: Alright.

Daniel: Alright. We got another one. So this is this is one we did back in November. We bought 18 acres in Bastrop and Where? Bastrop, Texas.

Anthony: It's East Of Boston.

Steve: Okay.

Daniel: So I like this one too. We're kinda scaling a little bit up. We got a we got a free free free cash flow deal. We got a 85 flip. This one was really good.

So, we a wholesaler bought it, and they had it. And they're kinda sitting on it, and they're trying to move it again. Mhmm. We're like, we those 18 acres, we would never bought it if it was one lot. One thing we what we're always looking for is arbitrage opportunities.

So this is 18 acres and four lots.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: That's money right there. So we bought it for $4.50. It was, like, a Wednesday or Thursday when we closed on it. We had three contracts for three of the lots, because we sold it separately by Monday for $600. They closed in two weeks.

So we were in four hundred, six hundred back, and then we still have one lot that we're still selling for $1.99. I think

Anthony: it went under contracts today. Oh, I knew you need to tell me. So so

Daniel: it was, like, 400 in, 800 out, and I think it's

Anthony: it's been like, a 230 k win in, like, three weeks from the time we closed. And, we had it sold before we had to close. And then, yeah. So that last one should be, like, roughly 400, like, in sixty days or something.

Steve: Yeah. So those are all some really good wins. Right? The promise of the show or the promise of the show is why land is the best investment. Yeah.

So why is land the best investment?

Daniel: Because depending on what your strategy is, if it's cash flow or flips, you can do bigger spreads and create larger cash flow in land without any of the CapEx, OpEx, and management of any other asset class. There's no staff. Nothing's gonna break down. There's no roof leaks. No toilets.

No tenants.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Because we've had we've had Jack Bosch on the show.

Daniel: Yeah. Right?

Steve: We've had Ray Jang, on the show. We had Brent Bauer. Is that what it was? Yeah.

Daniel: Okay. Yeah. Brent.

Steve: Yeah. Right. That's because, like yeah. I mean, they're all preaching the same thing. Right?

So tenants, toilets, termites, I think that's what that's that's Jack's Yeah. Saying. Right? You're saying no staff, which I think is also incredibly appealing. Mhmm.

So then what are the expenses then in running a a a land business?

Anthony: So I'll tell you, for the most part, if for a brand new land company, it would be marketing and engineering, right, or and improvements. So if we had to put in culverts, fences, that kind of stuff, that would probably be the biggest challenge. But just if if I could back up for one second, I wanna talk about because I didn't get to answer why why land is the best investment. Mhmm. I think it's a it's a sure bet no matter what.

Right? So if you buy a commercial property, buy a house, buy something like that, there's always that little that buffer zone where you don't know what's gonna happen. Right? Your your your rehab goes up, goes over. Now it's not a deal anymore.

Yeah. Interest rates turn. You gotta give back $80,000,000 worth of apartments. Right? We saw in So Yes, ma'am.

With land, you buy a 100 acres. Right? We look at it through that first lens of 10 acre subdivides. So there's for sure profit there. Right?

We usually aim for somewhere between, like, 500 and 1,000,000 per ranch. So there's gonna be some kind of win even if it halves. Right? And now instead of 500, you make $2.50. Mhmm.

Still still a sure bet. Right? Nobody's gonna feel sorry for us if we made 250,000 instead of 500.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: Right? But with land, you can take it to the next level. Always. It's always a strategy. So instead of doing 10 acre tracts, right, you do some engineering, you break it down to five acre lot or two and a half acre lots or one acre lots.

So instead of you having to take a loss, right, with, like, apartments or commercial, any of those guys, you just hit it with a little bit more capital and a few more months, and you can always increase the output no matter what. It's a blank canvas. Even if you overbought, even if you overpaid, you still continue to inject a little bit of time and capital into it, and you can always force appreciation higher. So much so that some some of them, you can push them in the 10,000,000, 20,000,000, right, profit. Mhmm.

Just by continuing to inject more time and capital into it. So it's a for sure bet you're never gonna lose. And then I say never, but I mean, there's a lot of ways to increase the the value of that property by just putting in more time and capital.

Steve: Gotcha. So marketing. What kind of marketing are you guys doing to get land?

Daniel: This is the funny part. So we let we talked about podcasting a little bit earlier. We have not marketed to a seller in thirteen months directly. So we have zero marketing spend right now.

Anthony: Mhmm. All

Daniel: of our lead flow comes from our students and just education that we put out there. Mhmm. And, like, is this a deal? And then we pull out a for outward education. So and, like, right now, we don't have that many students, but we have enough deal flow where where it's crazy.

Steve: Yeah.

Daniel: So we're just looking to grow the team at this point. We have

Anthony: 550 ranches in our spreadsheet, and it grows every day. Mhmm.

Daniel: Every day. Yeah.

Steve: So you say ranch. Just I'm I'm curious if maybe that means different things in different areas. So what does ranch mean when you say ranch?

Anthony: You know, maybe somebody's gonna ding me. They're gonna watch this and be like, no. He blew it because I'm from Texas. Right? Right?

But I'm I'm a city boy. I'm not even from the country. So The

Steve: hat is just for show.

Anthony: Yeah. Branding purposes on it. No kidding. So a ranch is usually like a workable ranch. Right?

So you can have, like, animals. You're gonna have equipment. You're gonna have maybe irrigation, stuff like that. Where in another type of property, you might say a farm, right, where it's only raising animals.

Steve: Yeah. Because in my head, you say that. I'm thinking farmland.

Daniel: You've you've gotten cows.

Steve: Yeah.

Daniel: You've gotten cows, free cows. If you buy enough land It's

Steve: amazing property.

Daniel: You get free houses.

Anthony: Yeah. So, like, peep we always make

Daniel: a joke about, you know, why would you buy us if you get it for free if you buy enough land?

Anthony: Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, do what are what is the definition textbook? I don't know.

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: But, yeah, in my mind, farms, it's, like, more like agricultural based, like, animals raising animals, cows, that kind of stuff. And then I think ranch is is is a kind of production. So there might be a little bit of everything. It might be animals. There might be, some growing going on there.

Steve: Gotcha.

Anthony: That kind of stuff. But in my mind, I'm just imagining it's a it's a big giant tract of land that nobody's using outside of the city. Right?

Steve: Okay. But there's gotta be some parameters as well. Right? Like, what's the minimum size?

Daniel: Right now, we're looking we've done smaller stuff, but we're looking for 20 acres or more. Mhmm. Just because if it's a 10 acre rule, we can at least cut that into two lots. Mhmm.

Anthony: Minimum. Mentally, I'm looking for I'm thinking about a 100 acres and up. So recently, I I we've checked on MLS, and, we that's what that was the first search. We did a 100 acres and up. And the cool thing about land is the bigger the property is, the easier it gets.

Right? You need that initial cash injection. You need that earnest money or, the option money, the engineering money. But a bigger ranch has a lot more profit involved. Right?

So if you bought a 20 acre lot, you can easily split that into ten and ten. You're done in two or three months.

Steve: It's a

Anthony: done deal. Right. But, you know, again, the profit's kinda like if if you're gonna put in $10.20, 30,000 and you only pull out 50. But if you buy a 243 acre ranch and you extract a million dollars in in four weeks or something. Yeah.

Right? So the the bigger the properties, the the more leverage that's in there. So in some cases, we contract the property. We do our magic on it. Mhmm.

And, we we sell a small portion of the property and pay it off. And the rest is ours pretty clear.

Steve: What states are you guys buying in?

Daniel: Mostly Texas. We're looking at other states. We've done some deals in Florida, but Texas is just there's so much opportunity there. We're just looking anywhere in Texas.

Steve: Gotcha. And then there's gotta be some sort of, like has to be a certain distance from town or something.

Daniel: Yeah. So Right.

Steve: You're not doing it, like, a hundreds 100 miles out of town.

Daniel: So this is where we differentiate from a lot of other landed people is that they like they like the desert squares. You can get a lot for $500 with 80 to $87 down. I'm like, yeah. You could do that. And I think if you start there, that's perfectly fine.

But I like buying land where people wanna be. Mhmm. Because I can I can charge more for it? I can get a really great opportunity for it. Mhmm.

And I can move it faster if I buy it where people wanna be. So, usually, we like being within think of, like, the city as a donut. If you think of Austin, cut out Austin and then go around Austin, and that's our buffer zone. So we're usually within forty five minutes to an hour of any major city, and that's where all the money is being made right now.

Steve: So are you at a point where, like, city lights are still there? Or we're past city lights?

Daniel: In some cases, no. We're past city lights.

Steve: Okay.

Anthony: Yeah. So think about I'm thinking in my mind, like, a good 10 to 20 miles out is amazing because that's a easy commute back and forth. Thirty minutes is still good. Forty five minutes, you're getting questionable. Mhmm.

I think the cutoff mark is about 60 miles. Once once you're an hour out, yeah, you're kinda like in no man's land. 61 miles, you're done.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: So, yeah, I would say thirty minutes or under ten minutes better. You know? So that's what we're looking for. Like, the 243 we bought Mhmm. It's, like, 10 miles right outside Loop 1604 in San Antonio.

So I see. In my mind, that's still the city even though there's no, you know, lights out there.

Steve: So for you, it's that you you really can't lose because you can always force appreciation.

Daniel: No matter what. Yeah.

Steve: And for you, you can basically act like a wholesale and flipper without the stress of actually dealing with the property.

Daniel: Absolutely.

Steve: Gotcha. If it's so easy, why isn't everyone doing it?

Daniel: And not enough information is, I think, is my my point. There's not enough people information, and we've had to we've had to block people to go, hey. You're teaching too much about land. Like, this is

Steve: What people?

Anthony: You you get to a point to where that these deals are so profitable that people get mad when you're when you're giving out public information. Mhmm. Like, say, like, teaching on YouTube. Like, hey. You know?

This is how you do land. People are like, dude. That's, like, our best kept secret for the last hundred years, and you guys are blowing it for us. Gotcha. So for one, people keep the information close to the chest.

Mhmm. There is a a capital barrier to entry. Right? Yeah. So sometimes these these ranchers or farmers or whatever, they want, like, 50,000 earnest money, 100,000 of earnest money.

It's not a joke. Right? You can't put down a $100 on some of this stuff. And you can because we've done it.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: But it's not as simple.

Steve: It's not the norm.

Anthony: Yeah. Then you get it under contract. Now what the heck do I do? So average wholesaler goes out. They get in their contract, and then they start blasting it out trying to sell the whole 200 acre track.

Mhmm. We get an inbox. They want 7,400,000. It has to close in two weeks. Like, sure, guy.

Ain't gonna happen. So you you have to know who who's your buyer. Right? You have to have the capital in place to be able to put the earnest money down. Mhmm.

A ranch that we're doing entitlements on right now, we're aiming for, like, 500,000 in entitlements. Mhmm. So you do have to have some capital to play. And that's where, you know, we come in with our students as we say, hey. Look.

You guys find the deal. We negotiate it, close it, contract it, we'll put up the capital.

Steve: Mhmm. Got it. So you're basically the OPM Yeah. For your students.

Daniel: Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So then how does that work? You're using other you're you're

Daniel: We're using OPM, but we're operating as a lender.

Steve: So you're you are taking capital from elsewhere.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: And then you're the bank here. So kinda like not quite private money. It's not quite hard money, but it's some sort of hybrid.

Anthony: Well, it's private because we don't we

Daniel: don't run anything on anybody.

Anthony: So if a student brings a deal, we don't care what their financials look like or the credit or anything. We underwrite the deal.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: And that's it. So we said

Steve: But it's not your money?

Anthony: Yeah. We had we had to grab it from somewhere else, and that's still private too. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll have guys just shoot us over the cash and say, hey.

You guys wanna get on this? We need $5.50. Let's do it. Send them as we're done. They're not underwriting the deals either.

Steve: They're just

Anthony: going based on our reputation.

Steve: It's their money. They're they're just trusting in you. So

Anthony: That's it.

Steve: What are you guys typically borrowing at, from your lenders?

Anthony: The the percentage?

Steve: The rate.

Anthony: The rate? Oh, dude.

Daniel: This is the best part. We pay we've been paying our lenders, like, 50 to a 100%.

Steve: Mhmm. Wow.

Anthony: Whatever they want is the answer. Whatever they want.

Daniel: Whatever they want. And, like, the thing is is, like, the best way to get more private capital is to overpay for private capital, and they open up their wallet. Yeah. So we've been overpaying since we started, and that's how we're able to get millions now at our fingertips because we're overpaying our capital. Yeah.

So, it's it's a long term play because everybody struggles. Like, if you had unlimited wallet, what would you buy? Like, whatever I wanted. You know? So if you can get good capital and good opportunities, and we're creating such large spreads, I'm like, hey.

I can share this ROI with the lender Mhmm. Because it's not my money. If I can make half $1,000,000 with your money, like, hey. How much do you want how much ROI do you want? You know?

Right.

Anthony: It's a

Daniel: different it's a different conversation where a house or apartment, like, you it's limited to capital. Like, if I give too much equity to the to the lender, it ruins my cap rate.

Anthony: Mhmm. Right.

Steve: You know? But you say, 50 to a 100%. Like, I give you a $100, you can give me $200? Is that what we're talking about?

Daniel: Sometimes. Sometimes. No problem.

Anthony: And sometimes more. Sometimes over a 100%. It just really depends on the deal.

Steve: But that can be sustainable over a long period of time.

Anthony: Well, the the thing is is that if the deal flow keeps coming in, like like, right now, I think we we measured our pipelines over a 100,000,000 right now.

Steve: Gotcha.

Anthony: So every time we do a deal, if we're looking at making a million or 2,000,000 or 4,000,000 Mhmm. And the lender's like, hey. I'll put in an m, but I want two back. Like, pencil it out. Works fantastic.

Mhmm.

Steve: So the

Anthony: only thing way. It still works out. So I think that's why, like, right now, we're focusing on on the the capital raising part because

Steve: Are you at times giving them more profit than you? Is are they walking away more than you are?

Anthony: No. I think I think the the highest We

Daniel: we did that at the beginning because we would, like, lock in rates.

Anthony: Mhmm. But

Daniel: now we're getting, like, okay. We had a deal. We're gonna make a 100 on it. So we're like, oh, we'll give you give you $50 back, and we ended up getting a haircut on it. And We ended up making, like, $30, and the lender made $30.

So, like, it'll I mean, it'll still a deal.

Anthony: I mean, right now, we're maxing out, like, at about 50% profit. Yeah. You guys put up the cash. We'll put the intellectual capital. We'll split it.

Mhmm. Then we'll stop there. But there's no way we're gonna go in there and and make 300, and the lender makes a million. And we'll we'll stop at $50.50.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. And and that makes total sense to me. Okay. So, how are you get so you guys aren't spending money on pay per click right now or anything?

Anthony: So Zero.

Steve: If someone wanted to go get land right now, what are you telling people how to market to get land?

Anthony: Tell them, Daniel. Tell them. Just tell them.

Daniel: Go to zillow.com and find stuff that's listed and make offers.

Anthony: Dude, you can go shopping on the MLS, bro.

Steve: That 200

Daniel: the 200 acres, we picked up 30¢ on the dollar on the MLS for six months.

Anthony: Mhmm. Just chilling. Shooting fish in a barrel, bro. Nobody's playing. Nobody's playing the game.

I I I pulled a list just in the San Antonio area of ranches that are 100 acres and up. 82 listings.

Daniel: So the the thing is the thing is is that most people in the land space, they usually do a 100,000 or less. The higher price point, just like houses, they're less there's less players to operate at that at that price point.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: So we're learning is that the more we go up in price, the less people are playing at that level. So every all the people on the MLS, like, we need motivated sellers. Land sellers are not motivated. They've been sitting on that land for fifty years. Mhmm.

So what's the what's the what's the high max motivation of that? It's on the MLS. They already raised their hand. They signed a contract with an agent. Mhmm.

They're motivated right now to sell. So we just count that as like, hey. That's motivation enough for us Mhmm. And it's just time. So we make the offer.

We wait. We come back six months, twelve months later. We had a deal. The lady wanted a 1.3 for a property. We made our offer.

Nothing. We came back fourteen months later. We bought her for $3.50. Mhmm. $3.50.

And she probably got beat up by wholesalers in the midst of all that, locked up her property for six months, all that stuff. So the people, time wears them down Mhmm. Where they come to their senses and like, hey. Dan and Anthony, they made a they made a sensible offer. Let me go back and see if they'll give it to me again.

Steve: So you guys come in, if I'm if my math's correct, about 25%.

Daniel: Yeah. Right.

Steve: So

Daniel: Well, I mean, it's different for every property because we're underwriting it based off of what it actually has worked. But some of these sellers are like, oh, I want there's a and this is this is for everybody here. It's like five acres sold for 50,000 an acre. So I want 50,000 an acre for my 500 acre ranch. I'm like, it doesn't work like that.

Anthony: It doesn't math out like that.

Daniel: It doesn't math out like that. So the bigger the property, the less price breaker you get for it, and it goes the price breaker goes small goes larger as small as the tract.

Steve: Right.

Daniel: Hence, you can get an That's why your model works. That's why it works. It's the wholesale model with Costco. You buy in bulk and you sell it by the by whatever. However you want

Anthony: I think something that works in our favor is there's no true measuring stick for the comps.

Daniel: There's no comps.

Anthony: Right. So, a lot of times, probably more times, agents have told us, like, you're never gonna sell it for that. Nothing's ever sold for that in that area, and we immediately create new comps.

Steve: Alright.

Anthony: Yeah. So, I think that's that's something that's cool that works. So you say, like, do we buy it 25¢? Well, 25¢ of what? Right?

25% of the listed price. Right? Because the agent came in and told them that it was worth three x of what they were told, you know, that they could get for it. When in reality, you know, the way we break it down is what would a 10 acre track sell for. Mhmm.

So they had a 100 acre track or 200 acre track. We don't care about any

Daniel: of that. What can I

Anthony: sell 10 acres for? And then we back into the deal that way. Gotcha. So we're not necessarily looking at comps, like, to say, hey. Woah.

Daniel: So 200 acre tract sold for 20,000,000. Mhmm. So that's what we're gonna buy it for. Like, it doesn't even that is

Steve: based off your exit strategy.

Anthony: We're just looking at that that one lens. And then, like, comps kinda count, but they kinda don't. Mhmm. Alright.

Daniel: I'm a

Anthony: tell you why. So let's say that everything around there is selling for 150 an acre. But we know damn well that it's close enough to the city that we can easily get $1.99. Mhmm. We're just gonna roll with what we think we can get for it.

Steve: And and

Anthony: kind of that's, like, our our magic exit is at one 50 to, like, $2.50 for a 10 acre track. So as long as we can hit that demographic, then we're done, especially seller finance. Mhmm. Right? Because these guys can't go to the bank or the credit union and get seller financing.

So if we say, hey. Look. Everything around there is selling for $1.50 to $1.79, we don't care. We're still gonna push it out at $2.50 with 10% down. And I I know we can get it every single time.

Because it'll only be $25 to buy.

Steve: Gotcha. So you came out, to my training. And I'm kinda heartbroken right now. It sounds like you didn't even use it. It sounds like you just say everything by email.

Anthony: He used all the same clauses, but he just typed them out instead of saying them fast.

Daniel: I really did. That's that's a 100% fact. I used your sales script, and I was typing it out a 100%. So So

Steve: you never used the the the the lines on actual homeowners?

Daniel: No. I I never did because I used it I used it through email. And then after I met him, he was doing all the sales calls. I'm like, I'm like, Anthony, you're up. You know?

And I I didn't have to practice with it. So

Steve: Gotcha.

Daniel: And it was one of those things where I was I I gave him the I gave him the script, and then he was like, oh, I use a version of this. Mhmm. So he, like, modified and created his own version of it because he's already a sales guy. Yeah. So it was just like it was it was no offense to you.

Steve: I'm not offended. I'm just heartbroken.

Daniel: Alright? At least it happened.

Steve: You spent hard you spent hard on hard earned money on it.

Daniel: Right? I did. I did. That's funny.

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: I mean, I still remember the sales calls. As a matter of fact, it might be recorded. It might be on my Dropbox if I wanted to, to pull it up. So, alright. So then the next thing you're talking about is then raising capital.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: So what is the vision for raising capital?

Daniel: I think the vision right now is we're we when you get to larger amounts of capital, you have to create the right vehicle for people to invest in. Mhmm. They're not gonna invest in, Steve Trang LLC just because it's not an offense to you, but you don't have the right vehicle to receive an oversight. So what's the next step is a fund. So a fund is SC regulated.

You have certain rules and parameters you have to fall under, and then people with higher net worths are willing to put capital into that structure Mhmm. Because it it feels safer. Not that it is. Do your under diligence, But, it feels safer because it's regulated.

Steve: Because it's regulated. Yeah.

Daniel: And the the flip side of this is you can do a fund for any type of model you want, including up to losing $80,000,000 of apartments.

Steve: No one we're not attacking anyone here.

Daniel: We're not attacking anyone here. If you felt offended, it's because it was meant for

Anthony: you. No.

Daniel: No names. But it's one of those things where, like, you can and a lot of people that run the fund model, they get paid to acquire. They get paid to dispose. They get paid for management. And, like, our old fund is, like, I don't really care about any of those things.

We're we're running the fund at cost. We'll pay out of our own pocket. I just need money to invest because every time we create a note and sell it, we're giving an ROI to that lender. If I can sell my note to the fund, I can give the ROI to somebody I know and trust and like versus giving it to somebody I don't know and like and trust.

Steve: Right.

Daniel: So if I can wash my left hand with my right, I'd rather do that and create the right fund structure. That way, I can keep doing the the transaction I want and fill that cash burn problem.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: So I think the the vision for the fund is, of course, we need the initial capital, right, for the earnest money, the surveys, the engineering, that kind of thing. Mhmm. We're gonna take that branch, and we're gonna property farm, whatever you wanna do. Right? Somebody's like, this one's not a ranch.

It's a farm. We're gonna take that property, and we're gonna convert it into both notes and cash. Mhmm. Right? And, again, like, if market gets weak, then the note game gets soft, and you can't get rid of the notes.

Mhmm. So the idea of having the capital in place is that we can redeploy the same capital over and over and over again. Mhmm. Right? So, lenders put in a 100,000,000.

Right? We're gonna do we're gonna raise a 100,000,000 for our first raise raise, four rounds of 25,000,000. Mhmm. We have one soft commitment for 20 already. Nice.

Right? So people kinda see the vision of what we're doing. Mhmm. We wanna have the capital in place so that if we do get to a point to where the ranch is sold out and we have a stack of notes, sell them to ourselves effectively. Mhmm.

Right? And then redeploy that capital again. So use that cash flow to pay back the lenders that put their and if they're getting a

Daniel: 18% profit. Great distributions as well. Mhmm.

Anthony: Whatever it is, that that capital that's sitting there at 12% interest can go right back to the investors. Right? Because that thing's recycling every month. It reloads and keeps paying those people down without us having to pull from our capital pool. Mhmm.

So that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna continue to take that capital and just recycle it into new deals, use the notes to pay down the investors over the time.

Steve: Gotcha. So, the notes you've created, to sell or the notes you've created, you have to sell the land that that you've subdivided, right, to the to the end buyers. You're taking those notes, and you're selling those notes to the fund.

Anthony: Yep. That's the intention.

Steve: Okay. So alright. So it's, are you selling the notes to the fund? And this might be too technical here.

Anthony: Let's go. Let's go deep.

Steve: But at what value are you selling the notes?

Daniel: So we would like to sell them at, like, 80% of value because even like that, it creates, like, a 15% yield.

Anthony: Mhmm. And

Daniel: then if the seller pays back early, it actually increases the yield. Mhmm. Which mostly we have sellers that pay back early. So our target for the fund is we're definitely gonna no guarantees. But there there's I gotta be careful here.

Steve: Yeah. You do have to be careful with this stuff. It's true.

Daniel: No. This is this one a good way to go to prison. This is yeah. So, like, we're we're offering, 12% preferred return because we know we can we're creating 12% notes. Mhmm.

So if we sell them discounted, we're gonna create higher yield at that point.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: And then, if the note ever pays back earlier, we have to restructure the loan as the the note would just and that's the other thing too. There's three things you can do whenever a note comes due. You restructure or you restructure like you did in COVID. You foreclose like they did in 2008, or what investors do is they do cash for keys and resell it again. Right.

So we have those options and availability without actually selling that note to John Smith over here who's just gonna do that by himself. Mhmm. We actually hold it within the fund structure and have the ability to recycle and re re recapture that note if ever it comes defaulted.

Steve: So before my next question, for those that are listening, what is a pref return? Because we're using some fancy terms here.

Daniel: Yeah. A a pref return is essentially a not guaranteed rate of return, but it's a preferred return that your fund is offering in your PPM to your investors that invest into your fund.

Anthony: So what effectively what we're saying is if you give us $10,000,000, we would like to give you back 12%. That's our target. Right? That's what the preferred rate of return is.

Daniel: And this is secured by real estate, 80% loan to value, and good assets that we can always restructure and repurpose.

Steve: Gotcha. 12% sounds really high. And I understand that your notes are at 12%. But just because your notes are 12%, why would you offer a preferred return? Because you don't you you can pay more.

Absolutely. So why would you because a preface, it's not a guarantee, but it feels like a guarantee.

Anthony: Mhmm. Yeah.

Steve: Right? So why would you offer a number that's higher and make it like, wouldn't it be better to potentially underpromise and overdeliver versus setting a high expectation?

Daniel: Cool. It's it's it's a it's a juggling act. You gotta you gotta kind of do whatever it is, but my whole thing is that a lot of larger capitals are looking for good and safe investments. Mhmm. So we wanna make sure they get a good, safe investment with a high rate of return.

Mhmm. Because we're creating notes at 12%, so 12% is in Well,

Steve: I'm not saying don't give a good return. No. I'm saying You're saying how can you guarantee that much? Yeah. Right?

Like, it's it's, because, yes, you can hit it. Right? It's that whole deal of underpromise and overdeliver versus, like, setting really high expectations, and then the one time you don't hit it, not everyone's upset.

Daniel: So here's here's the other thing too. So all the assets we're buying are usually 50% loan to value. So if we were to hold and create these notes ourselves, we'd be getting a 50 to 60%, ROI on our capital for thirty years.

Steve: Yeah.

Daniel: So giving it 18% return is very minimal Mhmm. For that fund structure. So it's really easy to I mean, we we talk about we're paying our lenders right now 50 to a 100%.

Steve: Yeah.

Daniel: That 18%.

Steve: That one, I can't pencil that. We're gonna have to we're gonna have to sit down with a spreadsheet with that one. That one's not making sense in my head.

Daniel: 18%.

Steve: And that's

Anthony: not and that's not

Steve: that I don't believe you. I just can't get it around my head.

Daniel: 18% is it's it's easy Mhmm. For what we do because I can buy a $100,000 lot. I could buy a $100,000 lot for $80 and provide a 15% return.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Just like that instantly. The target

Anthony: of our average deal on these bigger ranches is at least 50 to a 100% minimum. Mhmm. Right? That's not even including on the back end.

Steve: But this isn't the 10% we're looking for in flips.

Daniel: No. No. No. No. It's a totally different model.

Anthony: For if we if we spend a million in cash, we wanna pull two out of the deal. Mhmm. Right? Typically, it's not our cash. Right?

So it's dead eights, infinite returns, 12% for the notes alone. And then that's not even including partials. That's not even including us taking it to the next level through the entitlement process. Yeah. So where, if we get a ranch with five or 10% down or a 100,000 into the deal, and we pull out a million in cash at the end of it in twelve to twenty four months.

So it makes 12, like, insignificant. Like, if somebody said, hey. I'll lend you

Daniel: a $100,000,000

Anthony: at 12%. Like, can I get two? Right. They had such a such a low target for us. Even if we took zero, I just paid the 12.

Still fine. It's just one deal. Right? When you have when you have an infinite lead flow. So I think that's something that makes us a little bit dangerous Mhmm.

Daniel: Is that

Anthony: we if you you can't go out and raise a $100,000,000 if you have a $10,000,000 pipeline. Right? You might you might find yourself upside down pretty quick. Yeah. But we have our our lead flow is so tremendous that we can replace a loss.

No problem. Right? You you let's say we we don't hit a target on a on a deal, and we we only make 11%. Right? We're 1% short now.

But on the next one, we do five x. Right? Real easy to soften up that one point. Mhmm.

Steve: You said you got a soft commit from 20 mil for 20 mil.

Anthony: Mhmm. From one person.

Steve: How did you get a soft commit for that? Is this someone that you already have a working relationship with? Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha.

Anthony: Somebody that came from inside of our community.

Steve: Okay. How did you get that? So you said within the community.

Daniel: Mhmm.

Steve: Was this an investor in the community, the student in the community, or a referral from a student inside your community?

Anthony: It's actually yeah. It was a referral from somebody inside the community. It was a family member.

Steve: Gotcha. Yep.

Anthony: And he said, hey. This guy has some money to spend. He wants to talk to you guys. And it started out small. I think the first time they went in with us was 200,000.

Mhmm. We paid them back a 100,000 in under twelve months. Mhmm. And, they thought that was amazing.

Steve: 200 turn to 300.

Daniel: Yeah. Gotcha.

Anthony: In under twelve months. Mhmm. So Yeah.

Steve: I mean, I think a lot of people would be happy with that return.

Daniel: Yeah. And and and then the other thing too is, like, we we, like, try and, like, get long term guidelines, but if we complete it faster let's say we did that in six months, that's a 100% annualized return.

Anthony: Mhmm. So that's another thing we do with our lenders, before the fund. Right? This fund has not launched yet. But if we, pay them the same rate of return no matter when it closes.

Mhmm. So if we take cash and we finish the deal in thirty days or sixty days or ninety days, they get a flat rate.

Daniel: Alright.

Anthony: So they said, hey. Yeah. We'll park it with you guys for a year, two years. So if the deal's over in three or four months, they get all their money back right away. And then what happens is they get really excited and they're ready to go again.

And then they call their friends and their friends and their friends. And now, you know, we have the capital is kinda starting to stack up now. People are starting to call us and say, hey. Can you guys use 400? Hey.

Can you use 800? Hey. Can you guys use 200? And we're, like,

Steve: Right.

Anthony: Right? So we make sure that our us, like, if we bought a b deal or a b plus deal, amazing. One of the best deals we've ever done

Daniel: in our life. Mhmm.

Anthony: But for our investors, we look for, like, a and a plus deals. Like, we gotta stop buying a deals. It's all let's do all a plus now. Mhmm. So we're extra careful with other people's capital, more so than what we would do with our own.

Steve: Gotcha. So you guys also have a CRM?

Anthony: Yep.

Steve: Alright.

Anthony: I'm

Steve: seeing this on your shirt. It's not in the talking points here, but, clearly, you guys have a CRM. So talk to me. You guys, somewhere along the lines somewhere along the line started a CRM Yep. And started a podcast.

Daniel: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? We're we're we've only been talking about land this whole time. Yeah. Right. So, like, what are what is your guys' core focus?

Anthony: I'll take it first. Go ahead. Go ahead. So, having a a marketing and a MLM background, it kinda gave me the vision for, what what you can do in numbers and and volume. Right?

So when I started I'm trying to when I started to decided I was gonna focus on land, I noticed that these big deals with these big spreads are tough to find. I don't know why. Right? Especially when you're not going straight to the MLS like we are now.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: So I had a vision is, what if we created a mastermind where we just taught people how to go out and find these big deals? Mhmm. Right? Because they were so hard to find. So what do we do?

You know, other people's money, other people's time Mhmm. Right, to be able to scale this thing. So that was the vision. Like, what if we could teach a community of people how to go out and find these deals, bring them to us, and then we'll do the experting on the background, raise the capital, and close them? So the mastermind was the first vision, but I said, if somebody joins a mastermind on Monday, you know, thirty days later, they're out.

Right? That was pretty cool. I'm out of here. So I thought, you know, what would be a sticky product to keep them here? So all we did was just white label GHO.

Mhmm.

Daniel: You know,

Anthony: we came up with the idea in December. We launched February 1 something. Mhmm. You know, February 2. So, like, it was, like, under a six week launch.

Daniel: Right.

Anthony: Because we didn't want to be known for our CRM and having the best CRM in the world. Mhmm. We just needed somebody to download a bunch of data. Mhmm. Right?

Put a bunch of information in here, start to use the product, and market. So it would be a little stickier than just picking up all of your toys and going home after being in for thirty days. So that's all it was. It was a way for us to create a mastermind with a very sticky product so that it's not so easy to leave. And, of course, the brand's more recognizable than being Daniel Martinez Mhmm.

You know, LLC. They'd rather be in in something that has a name and a tag on it. So it was that's all it was. It's kinda just a full product Mhmm. For us to build a brand and build a name for ourselves.

Steve: Well and it's work. Right? And it's it's a brilliant idea because I'm actually copying that same exact idea.

Anthony: Sick. Okay.

Steve: Right? It's, you know, we have our sales community. Mhmm.

Anthony: You know,

Steve: it's for 97 a month, but community is not sticky.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: But if they buy a cell CRM for $97 a month, that also includes sales training, they'll stick around forever.

Anthony: Yeah. Or

Steve: at least that's the hope. Yeah. Right?

Daniel: It works.

Steve: Yeah. Well, clearly. Right? I mean, this is something that, let's see. The I mean, Russell Brunson.

Right? He's the one that's got the linchpin deal. I don't I don't know. Do you pay attention to him?

Anthony: I've I've no I know of him. I just don't know what he offers or what he does. I don't know

Daniel: what he offers.

Steve: Well, his whole thing is is is is all about spending as much money to get someone into a product that they'll never. Right? Mhmm. But education is a product people will leave all day. Yeah.

Right? So how are you getting the stick?

Anthony: That was it. That was the only idea, man. Yeah. I thought we were gonna build something from the ground up. And then Daniel finds GH.

I was like, dude, just let's let's just use this. Mhmm. And in my mind, instead of pushing back, like,

Daniel: I'm the visionary.

Anthony: We gotta do it my way. I'm like, dude, we can how long would it take us to set this up? He's like, we can be up and running in four weeks. Yeah. Do it.

Steve: Which I think is much shorter today.

Anthony: Right? Yeah.

Daniel: It's much shorter today. For sure. Yeah.

Anthony: Now we can put stuff up in a day or two right now.

Daniel: Yeah. So and our our whole thing, and I think you kinda mentioned a little bit, is our entrance to the marketplace. Everybody everybody wants to be influential in the real estate community, but, like Yeah. There's a lot there's a lot of different ways you could do it. So you have coaching, which it's very clogged because everyone wants to be a coach.

Mhmm. Then you have to have after you

Steve: do one deal.

Daniel: I I after you wanna be a coach after you do your first deal. So then, like, there's 10,000 people trying to go up the coaching route.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: And then you got the book, and they're really, like, oh, I'm gonna write a book, and I'm gonna be influential that way. Right. And then there's speaking and Mhmm. Events, which people go up that way, and then they're like, oh, yeah. There's, like, everybody going off the coaching and the events speaking around.

Like, I I could speak at every event. I'll I'll pay you whatever. Pay to get on. And then, like, there's products

Steve: to get on to speak?

Anthony: Oh, yeah. Come on. You didn't know that?

Steve: I didn't know that.

Anthony: Dude, that's the whole thing. Yeah. You don't even have to be famous.

Daniel: You just drop some snacks and you're on stage.

Steve: See, that's crazy. Right? Because, like, I'm at a point now where they're like, hey. You wanna speak? Because, like, you wanna pay me?

And they're like, no. I said, okay. I'm not going. I got one

Anthony: of those from Houston. They're like, hey. We Awesome. Sounds good. Let us know when.

Okay. It's $5. We're we ain't going. You can give us $5

Steve: to go, and

Daniel: I still might

Steve: not go. Exactly. Yeah. So some people pay?

Anthony: Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Daniel: It's it's a tough world out there.

Steve: I had no idea.

Daniel: So, like, and our thing our thing is

Steve: So they're doing me a favor by letting me speak for free. Yes.

Anthony: Yeah. Lucky you. Yes. And like I said,

Daniel: even even even for us, like, we're getting content out. We'll pay a videographer. We'll get a Airbnb. We're gonna drop some money while we're there. So I'm not paying to show up at your event.

I'm sorry. I'm just not doing it. And then not not to toot our

Anthony: own horn or nothing, but I think we're doing pretty good. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like Well,

Steve: sounds like you guys are doing great. Yeah.

Anthony: I say, if we go on your stage, like, I think we're gonna bring some information that people have never heard before. It's a unique strategy. Very private. Mhmm. So, like, if you invite us to speak, like, I think we're we're blessing the community.

Right?

Steve: Right.

Anthony: So we're not gonna also pay. Like, you know, even if you offered us cash, like, I still don't wanna be away from my wife and kids. I'd rather just stay home.

Steve: Well, yeah. And that's that's the challenge. Right? It's like, what I'm asking for, no one will agree to. So so you're saying so speaking

Daniel: Podcasting is another route and then products or services.

Steve: Mhmm.

Daniel: So I think podcasting and product services are, like, least path least path to resistance. Mhmm. So we went through we started Hivemind. We just hit three years old February 2021, so we're three years now.

Steve: Congratulations. It was through it

Daniel: was through that. And then we did that for nine months. I started the podcast, nine months later, 2021. Mhmm. And I just went hard on it.

I mean, I was doing, like, five, ten episodes a week for a long time, and I released five a week for a very long time. So we're, like, 476 episodes right now. Yeah. Three hundred hours of content. I keep KPIs now.

Steve: Yeah. That's great. Three

Daniel: hundred hours of content, which is, like, twelve days. Mhmm. That's crazy. Mhmm. So I'm like, okay.

So we got the podcast. We got the product services. Now we're speaking. Mhmm. And then we're working on a book.

We we wanna release a book. So it's like you kinda come through different ways, but you gotta figure out what that first way is that you're gonna enter the marketplace. Mhmm. So, like, Hivemind CRM is kind of like our brand, but Hivemind's our brand that we're kinda following into because because we don't wanna do this forever. Like, I don't wanna be that dude that has to show up at every event, and, like, I'm good.

Like, if I can create a a brand that enters into the marketplace and I can put somebody else to run it Mhmm. Eventually, then that's that's all in our goal.

Anthony: I'll tell you something embarrassing. We launched the coaching program. Mhmm. And, the minimum was 25,000, the middle one was 50,000, and the top was a 100,000. And we got a

Steve: What was the lowest one?

Anthony: 25,000.

Steve: 25, 5,100.

Anthony: So now that we got students, we don't wanna coach anymore. Yeah. We don't want people to just be randomly calling our phones and and and blowing us up. So, like, dude, if we get another 20 students, I'm quitting. Mhmm.

Right? So we prefer the the method of of do a community. Mhmm. Let everybody in the in the group learn, and then they could just bring us the deals as they come in, submit them through the portal. Mhmm.

But that one on one coaching stuff, like, we're done with it at any price tag. Yeah. Yeah. One on one coaching stuff.

Steve: One on one coaching is really tough.

Anthony: Yeah. It's

Daniel: it's crazy. That's crazy. So, like, it it's it's been it's been interesting. We've been kinda diving down different things, but I think I think our model, it's it's gonna be interesting because land is a harder barrier to entry because of all the other problems you come into. And once we solve that money problem on the front end, we can be their lead source to lead contract to lead cash to ship cash infusion Mhmm.

To buy and take down the deal, to lead this lead disposition, and all the way to the end, even to the note side on the back end. So we we can we can I I handed one of my students who was struggling a little bit? I'm like, hey. Here's a deal. You're gonna make money on it if you do a b c.

So he went through the whole process, and he's like, I'll fifty fifty fifty fifty the deal with you. We're like, okay. That's amazing. I'm not doing anything with that transaction. You go do it.

We'll put up half the money. We'll put up all that stuff, but now he's doing the transaction a to z, and I'm not even participating into it. He had a deal where, one of our students found a lead. He had a buyer in the area that buys, and we gave him the lead. He's gonna send us some money for that deal that we didn't participate in.

Steve: Alright.

Anthony: So I think, like, in the spirit of multi level marketing and network marketing, it's like we just need the people. Right? They're the distribution channel. Yeah.

Daniel: They're the distribution channel for everything.

Anthony: Yeah. I think I think focusing on, teaching people the game. Let them go out and pick up the deals and ask. Also, they're doing the work. Mhmm.

Right? Because, like, having to go through the sales process of something like 10 or 20 parcels, talking to engineers, and visiting the site, those kinds of things. There's a lot of moving parts. Yeah. So, like, how could we scale this thing?

We're wanting capital. Right? So the fund most important part Mhmm. So that we can bankroll the people that are out there doing the deals. What does that lead to?

That leads to our students bringing us a deal saying, hey. I need to borrow $2,000,000. Okay. Cool. We'll put up the capital, but now we don't have to participate in the deal at all.

Mhmm. Right? So we'll lend you the capital at a at a very high rate, some kind of partnership or something. And then on the back end, we could even be the notebacker.

Steve: Right?

Anthony: So the the we're we're doing deals now passively. Everything, and we're not doing anything. Just putting the capital.

Daniel: And there's no overhead from employees, which is the best part.

Steve: How's there no overhead?

Daniel: Because we're not we're not paying till they produce just like a salesperson.

Steve: Yeah. So who is analyzing the deal?

Daniel: So we analyze the deal because, essentially, we're the one bringing the capital.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: So we'll help analyze and negotiate upfront, and they're just bringing in a lecture capital.

Anthony: We have a team. We have about five people that are there with us that are still underwriting. They've never they've been around us enough to know what we're looking for. So they'll take a look first look at it, make sure it's something that we're interested in or that we think they think we might be interested in, and then they'll send it to one of us for the final blessing.

Daniel: So we had an event in, October. We do an event every year. One of the speakers, he's not real estate based. Daniel Burke Aguero told me to give him a shout out. So he was not real estate based.

He's kind of, like, on the coaching side of helping people kinda get their mindset and

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Their their personal side in order to get their business in order. So no real estate experience. He came and spoke at our event from a referral from somebody in our community, and, he's like, can I try this? You guys teach me? I'm like, yeah.

Let me here's what we do, how we do it, and he's what running the first kinda figured it out. Mhmm. He we he found a deal on thirty one days. He cold called for, like, twenty, thirty hours. Just cold calling agents.

Just exactly what we talked about. He found that deal we bought in January for 243 acres.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: So we're we're paying him, like, a $100 for his month of work that he found to find that deal, and it's just amazing. Like, I've never had somebody, like, go from zero to a 100 so fast, and now he's like, I think I got three more deals. Based off of your underwriting parameters, I think they're gonna fit the box where you're gonna fund it. Mhmm. And, we're gonna look at it when we get back home.

Anthony: Is that each one teach one model? Yeah. Right? So once somebody learns it, then they can teach their peer group two, three, four people. So that's why it has kinda like that MLM structure.

Steve: Oh, it definitely has an MLM structure.

Anthony: Eventually, maybe we'll have 10,000 people out there doing deals for us, and we're just providing the capital.

Daniel: So we we have we have, Anthony is a visionary, and he has a he has a opportunity in his mind that we'll do a thousand transactions in a day. Mhmm.

Anthony: Inside of the organization.

Daniel: Inside the organization. Like, how do you do that? Mhmm. It's a lot of people and processes. Mhmm.

And it's not you on the way cranking the whip behind somebody to make sure they work. It's them going out there and doing it because you provided all the tools for them to do it, and they're just doing it because it's profitable.

Steve: Alright. I love it. So what does someone get if they're using the HiveMyCRM?

Anthony: They get for one, access. Right? So, it's it's us doing a one weekly coaching call. They get the CRM, and the CRM could be a pain in the butt. Right?

Mhmm. So you gotta get in there. You gotta set it up. You gotta upload your list. You gotta set your automations.

You gotta have all these different pipelines and automated responses. Right. Our customer service department does it for them. Mhmm. So it's completely hands off.

Like, you don't even have to know how to use it. For one, they get access to the community knowledge. We literally help. Like, we'll jump on the phone and negotiate. We'll go out and raise the capital.

So all it is, like, it's like a Us, like, shining a, you know, the Batman signal. It's the hive mind signal. Like, come check this out, guys. Trust me. It'll be worthwhile.

Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. So if someone wants to join, I'm looking here. Hiveminddisruptors.com, hivemind, disruptors.com, or text red to (210) 972-1842. That's it. That's it.

Yep. Okay. And then if they join that, then they get access to you guys in the group coaching to learn in greater detail what we talked about today.

Anthony: Absolutely.

Steve: Gotcha. Alright. I mean, that sounds like a steal.

Anthony: We think it is. We think it is.

Daniel: Like Yeah. We we had a we have a student. He was working at Costco. He had a few opportunities to come up, and, it takes takes people, like, six six months or so to kinda understand what we're looking for.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Some people pick it up faster, and I think it's based off your individual, like, knowledge and skill level. But, I mean, we have, like, single mom in there. She's got a few opportunities we're working on. Like, it it's just cool to see people working and creating large opportunities that they they might not even and we tell people, don't buy it with your wallet. Mhmm.

You're not buying these deals with your wallet because we're gonna be creative finance. Yeah. So and we'll and we'll raise the money. So if you're a part of the community, you have access to all of our resources

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: Just by being a part of

Steve: it.

Daniel: Yes.

Anthony: So you have you have, like, new new students making 50,000, 100,000 at assignment fees on the first deal. The mailman made 50,000 on his first deal. Mhmm. One of our students is gonna make over 1,000,000 on his first deal. So Very

Steve: first deal.

Anthony: Yeah. It's a it's a pretty cool niche to be in. I don't think that points to, like, the genius of Daniel and myself. Mhmm. It's just, where there's bigger numbers involved, there's a lot more profit involved.

And I think in my mind, somebody sends me a four acre tract, and I get butterflies. Like, I

Daniel: don't wanna look at it. Mhmm.

Steve: I don't

Anthony: wanna put that much time and energy into something that's gonna produce, you know, small ROI. But if somebody sends us a 100 acres, we're all over it. Right.

Steve: And we're

Anthony: like, oh, dang. Where is this at?

Steve: What are we talk about, you know, like, the outside and, like, it it sounds fairly simple.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: Not necessarily easy, but fairly simple. It's not really complicated. There's not a ton of moving parts. And you were saying earlier, like, if it's if you didn't if it's not a great deal, you can force appreciation.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: What's the downside with the strategy?

Anthony: I think buying too far away from the city where there's no buyers Mhmm. So we bought a 100 acres in a place called Orange Grove, Texas last year, and we still have, like, 30% of it after about a year. Right? We got it for super cheap, but it's not moving.

Daniel: Right? Right.

Anthony: So, I think that getting stuck with the property, we found a group of investors by Dallas that bought three ranches to do the same strategy. The guy that led them into this strategy didn't know what the heck he was doing. Mhmm. And now they went in. How much did they go into the deal?

Daniel: They they bought it too high, and then they borrowed against it to get timber equipment. No. But what what

Anthony: do they got total cash out of pocket into it?

Daniel: Oh, it's like 2 they bought, 250 acres for 3 and a half million. So they're averaged, like, 12,000 an acre. And we would have bought it at nine and exited at 18. They bought it at, like, $12.13, and they incurred debt with now they're at, like, $17.18 per acre. So now there's no way to exit property without large cash injection.

Anthony: Mhmm. So that's the next thing now. So now you got 3 and a half million stuck into a deal, and the only way to get out of it is to raise more capital to force appreciation on it. So that there's a problem. Going in 50,000 worth of engineering and earnest money and all that, and then it turns out you can't do it what you thought you wanted to do with

Daniel: the property. Or after

Anthony: us having it under contract for three months or six months, there's no buyers coming. Mhmm. Right? So now you've already, like because we don't wait to close. We start engineering immediately.

We start surveying off. Like, we're ready to go. Yeah. Right? So, normally, we try to make sure that it's a sure bet when we go into it.

But, yeah, you can lose 10 or $50,000 worth of earnest money on a single deal. So I think even more reason to have that guidance going with somebody who's experienced as opposed to just saying, like, oh, I saw that that podcast on real estate disruptors. Those guys are doing it. We could do it too. Right.

I think

Steve: Well, it's it's really easy to forget about the things that can go wrong. Mhmm. Right? Because we hear things like, oh, that sounds great. I'm gonna go I'm gonna jump it all in and this and that.

So paying too much, which is I mean, I guess, is experience component, or or or guidance component. And then buying too far, which is really the same thing as paying too much. I mean, you shouldn't buy it at all if it's too far. Mhmm. Yeah.

Anything else?

Daniel: I think paying with your own cash.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: One thing that we've noticed, and this is this is crazy, land has trillions of dollars of dead equity. Mhmm. It's dead. Yeah. In the property just sitting there.

They've owned it for fifty years, and it's passed on generation to generation, and it's literally it takes someone like us to unlock it. Mhmm. So it's to your detriment to pay cash for things. There's people that do what we do. They buy everything cash.

I'm like, why would you buy it cash? Mhmm. You're crazy. Every one of these sellers has equity. You can ask for seller financing.

I don't care how much they how much they want down. If it's a good opportunity and you get that thing with 50% down, buy that deal. Mhmm. Because you can leverage seller financing. Right.

So there's a lot of equity there that you can play with and maneuver and get creative with, and I'll leave I'll leave it at that.

Steve: I was

Anthony: gonna point at some other landmines. You can come across a endangered species. Right. Right? Florida.

Bloodlands, wetlands. Mhmm. Just like, you can get pushed back from the county. So right now, we're looking at buying a deal West Of San Antonio where the developers pissed off the city and the county. Mhmm.

So now they don't wanna do business with them. They're making it extremely difficult, for them to be able to do business there. Well, those are some landlines, things that you gotta watch out for, type of soil that's on property. Right? Sometimes, if you're looking to do a development and it's not the best for, like, septic systems, that kind of thing.

Daniel: Access to utilities.

Anthony: No groundwater. Right? In Texas, we have groundwater. Right? So if there's no public utility district or coop water, you can drill wells and you can produce water that way.

Mhmm. But in some areas, there's no groundwater at all. So, again, it's just like knowing what all those little nuances are, and and I think just following somebody in, right, until your first handful of deals. And then after that, you can go off on your own and do whatever you wanted to do. But, yeah, lots of definitely lots of pitfalls.

Steve: Yeah. Getting some guidance.

Daniel: Yeah.

Steve: So, why what is your why?

Anthony: Man, if you had asked me five years ago, I would have said my family. Mhmm. But I think once you get yourself comfortable and you get your family comfortable, my my mind automatically starting to go, well, how big can we scale this thing? Mhmm. Right?

Because I see a lot of things that are happening around the globe, right, with the famine and and limited access to resources. When I was doing that solar company, I had I was trying to track leads for people that want solar. So I threw an ad on Facebook. It was actually Craigslist. Like, hey.

Solar panels for free. Right? So they can call me, and I'm like, we'll get you hooked up. Mhmm. This guy called me.

He was in Mexico, and he's he was in tears. The guy's like, we have no electricity in our building. It's like, I really need those solar panels. And then I started to cry. And I was and so that that from that day forward, I said, I'm gonna start working on infrastructure in places where they need it the most.

Steve: Mhmm.

Anthony: And, you know, just thinking about all the different needs. So we have a lot of different charities and nonprofits that we have on our radar, things that are important to us. That's my why. I wanna start to move capital at a scale where we can start to make an impact and and things that are important to us all over the planet, not just in The United States. But that's my why, man.

I I've reached the point to where I have fancy cars and shiny things. I don't own a bullocks. Mhmm. Those things are so insignificant to me. I wanna be able to to scale this thing up, make a large volume of capital so that I can move it into things that are important, that that would reach far beyond, like, the people that I know, like, my immediate sphere of influence.

Yeah.

Daniel: That's my why.

Steve: That's awesome. How about you?

Daniel: For me, it's more of the on the information side. I think, one one of the big reasons why I dove so hard on the on the podcast side is because there's no readily information about land in general, and

Anthony: I

Daniel: think it's you don't know the impact you can make over a lifetime of just producing content.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: And I guess, one of the other reasons why I love, just creating is I can't have my my daughter. My daughter's six and four, and I have a son who's three. I can't have these conversations with them right now. So I wanna have and record this information for them and other generations to listen to forever. I don't know what the future holds, but, hopefully, this information will be out there for a very long time, and people can learn and start taking action.

And, it's evergreen. That's why I love doing stuff like this. It's evergreen content. So you don't necessarily know the the impact and influence you have on communities that you never speak to, and I think you've under you understand that most Yeah. After doing this for five years.

You don't know that it you don't know the really true impact you make just by providing the information. Mhmm. So he's more on, like, providing the physical stuff. I'm more on, like, the information side of let's make this information readily available. That way we can make a large impact in this, untapped resource of a blue ocean of land.

Anthony: Yeah. If I could add a two point o, kinda what what he said and something too that's been real heavy on my heart, is that we grew up super, super poor, man. Like, I know a lot of people have that story, right, that background. We, you know, we had to live with family a couple times growing up. I'm just like, my dad didn't have land.

Mhmm. His dad didn't have land. Right? So a lot of the land that we're finding, these big tracts that are, like, 500 acres, a thousand acres, it's been concentrated only to a handful of families. Mhmm.

And so that leaves a lot of other people that were disadvantaged and never had the opportunity to have land. So with what we're doing, we're breaking generational curses over and over and over again for a living. So that's something that I'm furious about. Like, this best kept secret Mhmm. If it was if this was out into the public a long time ago, then maybe my family and generations prior, you know, wouldn't have to go through that.

So for us to be able to break generational curses for people at scale, it's like, dude, count me in. Like, I'm at war. Like I said, people have been telling us, like, you guys need to keep it down in that land. I was like, man, I'm not gonna be quiet. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's something that really, really drives me, man, is I I want this opportunity to be afforded to everybody that's willing to play the game. They don't even need money.

Steve: Yeah. I think it's great. It's incredibly, incredibly powerful. What is your biggest struggle today?

Daniel: Biggest struggle, I think, right now is is, personal or business. That's Any. Personal, I think it's it's always juggling juggling work and biz I think everybody struggles with that. I love what I do because I work from home, and he's on the ground running the ranches. So Mhmm.

I kinda have the ability to, like I mean, I pick up my school I pick up my daughter from school every day, and then sometimes, like, I got a meeting I gotta go to, so I'll be right back. So I can kinda manage both. I think it's my personal struggle and business struggle. It's just people. I think we need more people and capital,

Anthony: and

Daniel: we can really do some amazing things. But, it's it's been amazing journey from I've been doing I've been an entrepreneur for six years now, so it's just been interesting journey and kinda growing through different struggles that you have through entrepreneurship because, you hit different levels of growth at different times, and hitting that next level and kinda breaking through those barriers has always been it's been it's been fun. I told Anthony, like, I I think we're hitting, like, newer higher levels. I'm like, I don't know if it's gonna be as fun as it was when we were struggling.

Steve: Yeah. The hustle's different.

Daniel: The hustle's different. You know?

Steve: The hustle's different. It's a lot more complicated problems with a lot more ramifications.

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. More risk.

Steve: Yeah. More risk. I recently read a book, and what they talk about in there is every problem you solve creates a new host of other problems.

Anthony: Oh, amazing. That's an amazing observation. Right.

Daniel: That's good.

Steve: And so it's like, yeah. Like, we solve this problem. Now we got these other problems that not as many people have solved.

Anthony: Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's what's cool too. Like I said, like, so now we're heading into these things where I'll tell you just some, one of the things that I'm really focused on right now is, for for teenagers that are depressed, that are struggling, we're seeing suicide rates go up.

So we wanna have, like, a a fitness center type counseling center, for those people. People that are that have nowhere to go. Right? Like, let's say, like, a single mother that might have an abortion. Like, what if we had public housing for those people or or immigrants?

You know, things that people wouldn't have to

Daniel: worry about

Anthony: where they they feel like their backs against the wall. So if we're gonna start to move large volumes of capital, we're gonna have large amounts of tax money to dump. Let's put into things that are important. Yeah. That more so than like, hey.

Look at me. Now we have a thousand doors. Like, our our our door's goal is zero. Mhmm. Right?

But Yeah. Through through, through the charities and the and the nonprofit organizations that we wanna set up, like, we're gonna end up with some doors as a byproduct of what we're already doing. Yeah. So, challenges, I would say for one, for me, it's hard it's hard to unplug because once I get obsessed with something, like, I'm not I'm not gonna let go. Mhmm.

So once I get home, it's, like, phone off. I could try to put it away. We go to dinner, put the phone away. That's something that I really struggle with is being able to unplug from my business because I love it. I tell I joke.

I say I don't have any hobbies. Right? So I work out, and I work, and that's about it. But business wise, I think just capital, man. Right now, our lead generation is working too tremendously.

Right? So if we're gonna continue to grow and scale and we're again, that need for capital is gonna be ongoing forever. So even after we raise a 100,000,000, like, let's do another round

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: Because the lead flow is there. So Yeah. Those are those are the two challenges that I can think of first things first.

Steve: Yeah. And I I definitely resonate with that. Right? The the how do you unplug? Because this is fun.

Daniel: Ask her, dude. Ask her.

Anthony: Yeah. It's hard to unplug, man.

Steve: It really is. This is fun. We're we're playing. This is not this isn't work.

Anthony: I love the game more than anything, man. I really I enjoy it. I don't feel like, oh, god. Another day of work. Like, I'm just I'm I'm in it to win it.

Yeah.

Steve: What's your superpower?

Anthony: Mine, man, I have to tell you, it's just brute strength. Right? And then being able to foresee the future. So once I have a vision and I know I'm gonna like, something that I'm gonna focus on, I don't worry about the 99% of what else needs to happen until I get there. Like, I'll put in the hours, like, physical physical pain and torture.

I'm gonna make it happen no matter what. So I think it's being able to power through challenges, making sure that, like, all the little things that come along the way, like, those are, like, insignificant insignificant. I'm still going. And sometimes it is very painful and very painful to put in the hours and have the focus. And it's just whatever I lack in intelligence, I think it's just brute strength and being able to see something through no matter what happens and and being able to to go through that pain and those challenges no matter what.

Steve: Yeah. You're gonna make it happen. How about you?

Daniel: I think my my superpower is it's able to extract. It's to take large amounts of information and extract what's pertaining to me.

Anthony: He he has a way of distilling down large volumes of information into, like, two sentences.

Daniel: Yeah. It's it's weird. It's weird because I I listen to I'll listen to, like, if somebody whole speaks, speaks, speaks, speaks, speaks, and it's a lot a lot of people, they throw a lot of fluff into their their book or their their blog or their their whole podcast episode. And then, like, what are the action items for this thing that I read or listened to, and what am I gonna do with it? So I've I I have, like, an ability to pull and extract a paragraph, and we're gonna implement it today.

Mhmm. And that's my superpower.

Steve: Yeah. Well and I I appreciate that. I like to think I have the same one. And the biggest challenge is listening to someone's endless BS to get that one thing.

Anthony: Yeah.

Daniel: And that one thing is so crazy because I'm like, I listened, like, hours. And I'm like, oop. That was it. I'm good.

Anthony: Let's go. Yeah. Their own book. Like, the the book could have been a sentence long.

Steve: Yeah. Why can't you just like, what was the point of all these other things?

Daniel: But, like and I get it too because I I think information is meant for people in different stages. So, like, if you're reading a book about business and you've never experienced a business, everything's gonna be like, oh my goodness. This is amazing. Mhmm.

Anthony: But,

Daniel: like, people that have been in business for ten years, they're looking at that book completely different because they need to understand that lesson that a a ten year business owner understands. So they're waiting for that one nugget to come across like, oh, that was it. Thank you. Everything else is fluff because I already experienced it. Yeah.

Hands on.

Steve: Expression I heard recently, apparently or supposedly, it's a Chinese, I can't I can't think of the word right. It's Confucius is saying something something along those lines. But, you know, a man never crosses the same river twice. Mhmm. Right?

Because he's a different man, and it's a different river.

Anthony: Amazing. Yeah. Right? So it

Steve: doesn't matter how many times he's gone across it. So kind of what you're saying there. So what book have you gifted more than any other?

Daniel: Book? I am not a reader. I'm not a reader

Steve: at all. Podcast, audiobook.

Daniel: I've I read, I read book. It was really, really I read I read it once, and I Which one? The first one. I haven't read the second one yet.

Steve: $100,000,000 offers?

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. So I read that whole book, and it's funny because, like, I read the whole book, and I was like, like, there's no, like it's there's a lot of, like, actual items, but he really don't he really doesn't say what the thing he did was. Mhmm. And I pulled out of that whole book.

Here's what he did. And then he says it in a $100,000,000 leads what he did, and I already extracted it from his first book even though he never said it.

Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. So

Daniel: It's $100,000,000 leads or how many offers offers.

Anthony: That's good. And the spirit of being a Gemini, like, I can I get two? Sure. Sure. One is the the power of now.

Mhmm. Right? As I was going through a dark time in my life when I came across that book, and I think that text is probably, like, single most powerful thing I ever come across to. Like, no matter where you are in your life, like, if you just stop worrying about what happened before and what's gonna happen into the future, you can concentrate all of your energy and power into that moment and just stay there, and then everything becomes super easy. So I think that one for one

Steve: How? How is that or why is that the case?

Anthony: Because if you think about it, right, just, like, psychologically, if you're thinking about, like, the past, you you end up depressed because you wish you could do things different or you wish you would've made different choices. Mhmm. And if you're always thinking about the future, you're anxious of the future. What's gonna happen? What could go wrong?

Right? Because we're we're trained to, like, outrun T rexes. Right? So you don't die.

Steve: Right. So

Anthony: we're worried about what's gonna happen tomorrow. But if you if you can remove all that stuff, right, be, like, in the presence of God, right, like, in the Bible or, right, be be with be with yourself or the power, whatever it is. Mhmm. If you can concentrate all of that effort into that one space, I think you become ultra powerful because you're not, like, watering yourself down into the past and into the future. Yeah.

So, that book, right, that really, really hit home with me. So I got into, like, real heavy into prayer and meditation, right, to just be able to sit still and work through things. And I've noticed that after I come out of these sessions, right, whether it's ten or forty minutes, right, we have a 10 commandments for our group, and part of it is meditation and prayer. Because I feel like if you reach down into that higher self, no matter what, you you can have this problem that you've been chewing on for, like, three to six months, and then you come out of a forty minute prayer session, and you just solved it all without even thinking about it. Yeah.

So I think that's powerful. I think people should tap into that more often. I think it should be brought up more in business Mhmm. Because we want the practical steps. We wanna read books, and we wanna watch shows, and we want more knowledge.

Steve: Mhmm.

Anthony: But sometimes, the removal of knowledge, right, is is where the magic is, and the removal of information is where the magic is. And I'm real, real heavy into that.

Steve: Gotcha.

Anthony: And then the second one, I'm gonna say it wrong. It's it's a. Mhmm. Right? That's probably one that I've recommended more than anything.

And and I myself found an audio on YouTube, and I've probably listened to it, like, 200 times.

Steve: Gotcha. So

Anthony: whenever whenever the storm does hit me, right, and, like, dang. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to go from here. That's I'll just put on that audio, and I'll listen to it for, like, three days straight. Really?

Daniel: I'm

Anthony: at the gym listening to it. I'm driving around. I'm at the beach listening to it. Like, just my headphones on Mhmm. Nonstop.

And, again, I think it brings me back to center again. So, like, say, don't worry about it. Whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen with or without your participation. So something I say, like, is when you run into, like, a personal or business challenge, right, you can stress about it, but you're still gonna get the same result. Probably gonna get a similar result with or without your stress participation.

Steve: Exactly.

Anthony: So that's something that I really, really pay attention to is, like, just when things seem like a storm is coming

Steve: Right.

Anthony: Just calm down and relax, and and things are probably gonna work out in your favor because they normally always do. Yeah. And then removing that stress makes you more powerful because now you're not losing that 10 or 20% energy drain Mhmm. From not being able to focus. So that's it.

So I wish I had more, like, practical business books.

Steve: No. I mean, those two books are and I think they're very similar. Right? Yeah. Because, like, what was we had Larry Ashlee on the show.

We talked about, like, if you worry about the past, it's, anxiety or anger, and you worry about the future as worry. Neither of which help you. Right? And then that that Dao de Ching, I haven't read it yet. It's on on my kitchen counter.

Right? Like, someone told me to read it. I was like, okay. So I bought it. Mhmm.

And just sitting in the kitchen counter. So I gotta pull it up and and read it. But, I mean, there's a lot there's a lot of power in knowing that, if you just focus on what's at hand, because that's the only thing you can control and give your self permission to not worry about other things. But for most people, it's really hard to do.

Anthony: It's so easy to get caught up in everything that's going on around us. Right? The information age, when we're supposed to become smarter and wealthier than ever, people actually get consumed by the information. Right? You spend too much of your focus and your time and energy, and you just you you distribute them all into all these different things, sports and the kids and the wife and the family and and social media.

So when you when you think about it, there's nothing left of you.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: Right? So I think when you spend that time with God or or higher power, whatever it is, then you go inside yourself and and and you can commune with God. I'll just give you one quick example. Sure. It was, I think it was, like, Dan Rathers, one of those famous, right, guys, and he's interviewing Mother Teresa.

And he said, you know, what do you say when you talk to God? And she said, nothing. I just listen. Yeah. And then he said, oh, that's interesting.

What does God say? And she said, nothing. He just listens. And, again, one of those epiphany moments where, like, wow. Really spending that time in silence and that communing with yourself, with your higher power, that's where everything lies.

And there's not an instruction manual. Right? So God's not out there giving you, like, the whole bible. Mhmm. But if if if you distill the whole bible down, right, a lot of spiritual text.

Right? So I I prefer the bible, but there's they're they're all saying very similar thing is that if you distill all that information down into nothing, it's just being where you are, being in that present moment, being having that communion with God or the higher power, and that's where everything lies. That's where you can create worlds.

Steve: Yep. What are some last thoughts you'd like to leave all the listeners with?

Anthony: Again, for me, something, that that I'm gonna probably harp on for the rest of my life now is if you intend to to do real estate or business and invest your own capital, it's gonna be a long, sad road, and you might end up dying broke. I think everybody should immediately get good at raising capital and make that your central point of focus. And then you could just point that at any good business model, and, I think that's the quickest path to well. Mhmm.

Daniel: I think, being open minded. A lot of people, they get stuck in this rut that they think they're doing right thing, and that's the only way to to get results. And I think we've we've kind of us, we've gotten a lot further than a lot of other people in a short amount of time because we're open minded. I don't know it all, and I don't presume to know it all, but I have learned from a lot of different people and strategies and different things that I've implemented that's created this hybrid model of what we do. And I think it's just being open minded and to what's out there because you may think you know it all, but there's things that you don't even understand.

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. Every time we think we hit a new level, we meet somebody else, and we're, like, back to elementary school. Yeah. So I think we we we probably are the most open minded entrepreneurs in the country because we don't think we know it all.

As soon as we meet somebody new that has great information, we immediately incorporate that into our brand and into our model, and we run with it.

Steve: Yeah. Humility and coachability. I mean, I think those are two of the and they're and they're one and the same, but it's it's so such an important attribute because the the thing that can turn me off more than anything else when I meet someone new is if they have it all figured out. Like, okay.

Anthony: You give them a nugget, and then they got an answer for you right away. Like, oh, dang. This isn't gonna go good. Yeah.

Steve: I was like, alright. I'm not gonna spend any more time with you because there's just nothing nothing good can cover this relationship. So if someone wants to get ahold of you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Daniel: I'm on Facebook and Instagram. Daniel Hivman on Instagram. I'm on Twitter a lot. I enjoy Twitter. Twitter's fun.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Daniel: But, yeah, that's probably the best place.

Steve: How about yourself?

Anthony: Simplyman, I prefer, like, a Facebook Messenger. I'm on there a lot. So, I think that's probably the easiest place to get ahold of me. And, it might take me a little bit to get back a couple of days, but I I try to answer everybody. And then if you see me on social media, like on Instagram or on Facebook or any of those, I try to reply to every single comment, like, even if I reply a month later.

Mhmm. So if somebody just reaches out through one of those public channels, then, I'll get back for sure. But, yeah, I don't have, like, a website or anything like that. That that is my go to.

Steve: Alright. Perfect. Alright. Well, thank you so much. Dude, thanks

Anthony: for having us going on. Yeah. This is, like, one of our last accomplishments, dude. So Oh, I'm happy. I feel like we owe it in large part to you, man, because, yeah, you you you put the show out.

You put the good information into the universe, and, it fell on our ears, and here we are now, man.

Steve: So Oh, man. It's the same thing you're were saying. You're welcome. It was the same thing you were saying earlier. Right?

Like, each one teach one. It's that ability to pay for it because you don't know who might impact, what changes it's gonna make. I I think

Anthony: the waves that you're making on on the planet and then the universe, man, with what you've created is just like, I can't thank you enough, dude. And even just for ourselves, the way things have gone, like, I can imagine all the other people that you've impacted. It's just, like, just to even think about it, it's it's amazing. It's beautiful. So thank you.

Steve: Oh, thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you for coming on. We'll see you guys

Anthony: next time.

Daniel: Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. We real estate disrupt us.