3000+ Real Estate Deals Later, Going From Startup to Succession | Part I

Steve Trang: Steaming train. Jump on the steamed train. We real estate disruptors.

Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we have my great friend, Eric Brewer, with The Brewer Method, and he flew in from York, Pennsylvania. How about going from startup to succession, which, you know, doing 3,000 plus transactions, 400 plus a year. I have a little knowledge about all that.

If If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer. And every month, we help hundreds of people buy more houses at deeper margins. If you wanna join us on our training calls, DM me the word sales on Instagram, and I am on a mission to create 100 millionaires. And the information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent if you'll take consistent action, you will become one.

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That way, we can all grow together. And don't forget, we do have part in the disruption tomorrow, which is always a little bit of fun, a little bit of chaos. And this is a live show, so ask your questions for Eric to answer. You ready?

Eric Brewer: Yeah, man. I'm ready.

Steve: Alright. So it's been a a year and a half, almost two years Yeah. Since you were last out.

Eric: Yes.

Steve: Things have changed a little bit since we last met.

Eric: A little bit. Yeah. A lot of external change, a little bit of internal change, but, yeah, things are shaking up a little bit.

Steve: Yeah. So can you walk us through what has been some of the biggest changes, you've experienced in the last year and a half?

Eric: So I think, a year and a half ago, I was just onboarding my current COO. And, I'm trying to think about, like, the last time I was here versus now. There was a certain anxiousness about me back then. Right? I think a lot of it had to do with if you think about the timing of October, right, to your point of the towards the end of the toilet paper crisis or what's known as as COVID.

Yep. And, I had recently just transitioned out of my current COO, which in my organization, that person runs the company. Mhmm. Right? Like, I was relatively hands off for the most part.

Steve: The company or the companies?

Eric: The company at that point, for us, we would've had one or two entities, outside of our core business. But, effectively, 90% of our of our resources were allocated towards our home buying business. And that was hard. Right? Like, hard because I felt like I had failed.

Mhmm. I either hired the wrong person or had the right person and didn't manage and lead them effectively to keep them around. So I was just really struggling with, trying to identify what happened, and was super excited about my new COO, but it was so new and so fresh. Yeah. And, you know, it's easy to think back and say, well, when I hired the last guy, I was excited about him too, and that ended, you know, not ideal.

We part of the amicably, but, you know, it was it was disruptive. Yeah. And, so back then, I was there was this anxiousness. There was this tension about me, because I watched the video last week just to prepare to be here. And, I was like, man, I'm just I'm in a different place right now.

I'm just Yeah. I'm more relaxed. I feel like I have a little bit more clarity about where I am and where I'm headed. I'm healthier. I feel better.

I think I look better, but, I'll leave that up to

Steve: you. Subtly.

Eric: Subtly.

Steve: So, you know, I think that there is that fear. Right? You're talking about you got the COO, didn't work out the way you were hoping, you get this new one, And you're, like, you know, how much is it is it you? How much was it processed, environment, whatever? So, obviously, Ben Ma is still with you, and, man, he's he's an incredibly valuable asset.

Yeah. So what do you think, some of the things that you've done to grow yourself? Because I think if if it doesn't work out, oftentimes, we gotta look at, like, you know, maybe you weren't the right leader for the previous COO. So what what have you done to make sure you're a better leader today?

Eric: That's a great question. And, I think where I ended up was I gave full responsibility for why that relationship ended to that person. Because what at the at that time, he effectively made the decision that he didn't want to grow into what I needed the COO to be because we we went through this phase where, I talk a lot about level five leaders. Right? There's there's a there's a, level one, which is a you're you're a skilled person.

Level two is you're a member of a team. Mhmm. Right? You're able to you're you're able to do your job at a skilled level, plus you can actually work alongside other people.

Steve: You can work with other human beings. You can

Eric: work with other humans. It's it's from Jim Collins, by the way. Level three is you become a competent manager. And he was like that competent manager, and I needed him to move to, like, that executive leader. And then level five leadership is where you talk about the paradoxical combination of this undying belief that we can accomplish everything, but the ability to stare brutal facts Yeah.

Truth in the face. Right? It's tough to be able to do. Jim actually says that charismatic leaders oftentimes fail more often than folks that are a little bit more of a realist. Kind of a crazy combination.

Right?

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: So you gotta try and buffer your your charisma, and I think, I was crystal clear about what happened, but took full responsibility for the fact that the two and a half years that he worked for me, I failed to lead and develop him to the person that was prepared to move to that next level of leadership. So that was helpful for me to just have that clarity. And, it really made it, I think, I wouldn't say easier for me, but it made the hiring process of Benmont that much easier. Yeah. Because I knew where I was at that particular phase of my leadership journey.

I knew I needed someone that would be willing to sort of deal with my issues, we'll say Yeah. But also would would be willing to grow with me, and he's proven to be, I mean, he's he's become basically my best friend, which is something I talk a lot about Yeah. With people that I think, when we think about who our number two would be, I'm a firm believer that you don't have to start off as best friends, but you really should have a relationship with that person where they're they're part of your top three to five people in your circle. Yeah. Well, I So

Steve: I I love what you're saying there because, you know, I myself was having a hard time letting go of my own business, which is crazy. Right? Because I don't like to do a lot of things, but I was still having a hard time letting go. Yeah. And what I did was I brought in, you know, Larry Yash and Annie who was still team leaders.

And, like, I said, alright. If I bring them in, you know, they can help everyone else grow, then I can finally let go. And what we learned was how bad of a leader I was.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: Alright? And Yeah. It it forced me to elevate my leadership. And it was really cool was, you know, to get messages from my team yesterday, like, you know, like, really excited to see how much you've grown and allowed us, right, to to rise up with it.

Eric: So It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Yeah. The hardest thing I've ever done in my life. And we'll we'll we'll talk a little bit, I'm sure, about, you know, some of the consulting and leadership and coaching that I've done now. And, it's it's been the the most difficult thing because it requires you to virtually abandon all of the behaviors that got you to the place to where you deserve to hire someone in order to in order to earn the right to retain that talent Mhmm.

Steve: You

Eric: need to be the opposite of the person that you were when you created the opportunity. I said this by accident. I was out working with a friend of ours, Marcus Crigler, who's NCG. Mhmm. And we were going through this part, and I was helping him through his quarterly.

And he had these this group of task, and I don't think Marcus don't you know, it's nothing bad. But he's like, no. I'll take that. I'll take that. I'll take that.

I was like, hey, man. Like, we got a list of, like, 73 things here for you to get done this quarter. Do you think maybe we've put you in a bad spot? And he goes, I just wanna save them the hassle of having to do the work. And I said, you're not saving them from the work.

You're cheating them from the opportunity. Yeah. And he was, like, writing it down, and then he said it to me later. He was like, dude, that thing that you said to me was just eye opening. And that's what happens is that we have such a sometimes obsessive behavior over being in control when we build a business or we start this entrepreneurial journey.

And then the instant you hire your first person, you need to start to unwind that. Right. And it's hard because you're like, well, that's not what got me here.

Steve: That what got you there is also not what you observe from other people as well. Yeah. Right? Like, we didn't So actually grow up in, learn our business to

Eric: grow up. Car business in the nineties.

Steve: Yeah. Right?

Eric: I had phones throw it at me. I got MF'd, like, literally every and I was a good salesperson.

Steve: Right.

Eric: So think about how they treated the guys like you that didn't sell a lot. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But, no, like, I I live in a, like, model. It was it it was it was it was how we were raised a little bit differently.

It's how we grew up in business. But, no. Things are certainly different, and I don't think people have changed. You know, everybody talks about millennials this and millennial that. I think just today, people are less likely to be treated like that was crap.

Steve: Yeah. The less tolerance of

Eric: it. Yeah. I almost dropped the s word there. I wasn't sure about the profanity policy.

Steve: But But, you know, going back to your point, though, you're talking about all the different levels. Right? Like, for me, we're again, we're going over this as a team yesterday. Like, I think as an individual contributor, I believe I was excellent.

Eric: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? As a follower, I think I was pretty good. Yeah. And then once I got to management, I was like, this there's some holes we need to fix before we move up. Yeah.

So we're talking about the show is from startup to succession. Yeah. So before we jump into the path, can you explain what succession means? Because our general audience is still working on their first, 10 to 50 deals.

Eric: So I think succession, can really take on one of a couple different things. Right? Like, I I think about succession in my business, two potential ways. I have, almost a half dozen kids. Right?

I have five. I'm probably working on not probably. We will I'll have a sixth child by the next time you invite me back.

Steve: Too much time. Got it.

Eric: And, so succession for me may mean creating a a legacy of a of a business that has a big enough purpose and a big enough impact that my children would would would want to work at a business that I've built. Mhmm. Not have to, not be forced to, not have that be their best option. Like, I literally think about my 18 year old son, and he'll probably go to college and and and be, you know, out in the workforce in four years. Like, the there's no bigger compliment for me to be able to accomplish two things.

One, create a business that is his dream job. Mhmm. Right?

Steve: Like, think about

Eric: that for a second because I think it says two things. One, they wanna be part of what's going on. Right? It's like, I mean, they got great culture over there. There's there's people who are incentivized.

They celebrate success. There's accountability. Like, they they they create these paths for you to constantly level up. And then I think it also says something about what he's observed about me being part of that business and running that business for twenty plus years, is that, hey. Like, I I kinda like how my dad turned out.

Mhmm. And if that was part of his journey, I wouldn't mind following in his footsteps. So succession for me could mean creating a business that my my my kids could participate in and would wanna participate in, and it give me the ability to step away and still have Benmont run it. Yep. They would have to start at the entry level position.

My son works there in the summer, and he's a gofer. He runs for construction materials. Right? So he would have to apply for a position there, qualify, and win the position no different than anybody else. Yep.

I think he's a smart enough kid and a hard enough worker. We'd find a place for him. And then the second succession would be and we talk about this a lot and as your as your the one thing I wish I could go back and do differently is now I I I have the luxury sometimes of sitting with some people that have built some extraordinary businesses. Sometimes outside of real estate, whether it's a chain of coffee shops. There's a young man with me here today that, him and his wife own a chain of of boutique coffee shops throughout the the the the Phoenix area.

Right? It's pretty cool. I've met some people that are in venture capitalists that they're private equity, and they start a business with succession in mind. Mhmm. Like, they actually won't go into the business unless they have a clear path to get to an exit.

So if I were to go back and do this all over again, I would have started my business with the exit in mind. And the only thing that would have changed is I would have progressed as a leader. I would have put more emphasis and focus on systems and processes and remove myself from the business sooner than than I feel like I've been able to without that in mind.

Steve: You know, something I've heard quite a bit is that wholesaling is a young man's game.

Eric: Mhmm.

Steve: And the idea is just to wholesale generate enough active income so you can buy enough rental properties so you can live off the passive income.

Eric: It's a great path. Yeah.

Steve: Right? But you're saying put a little bit more thought into it. You know, create an ideal outcome Yeah. For you and your business.

Eric: Yeah. So I've been paying attention. I think one of the things that'll be next for me, you actually introduced me. There's a gentleman that teaches you how to flip businesses. Mhmm.

I saw on the page the other day, because I went through the course, There was a guy that two years ago bought a power washing business. Some might say that that's a young man's business too.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: Right? You're on TikTok. I I'm I'm a consumer. You're a content provider. I watch it, and, I'm fascinated when a guy, like, runs the wand across the sidewalk.

Right? And all the little dirt disappears.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: And it's in a straight line. And I'm watching, and it's mostly kids that spend $5,000 on a trailer and some start up equipment, then they show you, like, what they make. Mhmm. Right? As a power washer, a one man business.

So I saw this this power washing business that exited at 4,000,000.

Steve: Wow.

Eric: They sold a power washing business for $4,000,000. Yeah. Because that guy went into that business, and he bought it at a 3 he bought it for $300,000, which was one year's worth of income. So he bought it from that owner because it had $300,000 worth of net money, which by any measure, a $300,000 net business is a great business. It would probably put you in the top 1%.

Yeah. But it was only worth $300,000 because that person was the business. Mhmm. He didn't have systems. He didn't have processes.

He didn't have a leadership team. He didn't have a marketing strategy. He didn't have a core customer. So this guy came in and put systems and processes and hired people, got it up to, say, a million dollars worth of net profit, so he three x the profit. But now someone said, I'd like to own that business, and I could buy it and never show up at the office Mhmm.

And get a check for a million dollars a year. Yeah. So he went into that with an exit in mind, and I think you can do that in wholesale. I think you could structure the business in a way to where it is sellable because what's really different from wholesale than power wash or a coffee shop or anything else? It's just historically, I think because of the lucrative nature of the wholesale business Yeah.

You could operate and be profitable in spite of yourself. Right? Like, you literally

Steve: The margins are so large.

Eric: Yes. You can do you can do one deal a month and and cold call. Like, if you sit and you cold call four hours a day and do one deal a month, you can net $25,000 a month and make $300,000. Yep. Like, that's not bad.

Steve: No. That's great.

Eric: So what I think what happens is the market and the business has been so forgiving for so long, no one ever had to set it up like a real business. You could operate it for as long as you decided you wanted to and make a lot of money. And in our circle, people have always said these businesses are not sellable. And about three years ago, I accepted that as a challenge. It was, I think it's sellable.

We've just never run them in a manner that's permitted us to sell them. It's never we've never made it to where anybody would wanna and we're always stressed out. And it's like, I couldn't wait to buy that business. Right? So I'm gonna buy that wholesale business.

That dude is always stressed out and worried about where his next check's gonna come from. And some months, he makes $200. Another month, he makes 8.

Steve: Or loses money.

Eric: Right. Yeah. So I I think if you start with the end in mind, the wholesale business can be something you can exit from in a reasonable amount of time.

Steve: So let's talk about what are some of the major milestones between startup to succession.

Eric: So I I would say for me, and I know it might seem premature, but it is it is 100% the right people. And, when you look at our business, right, it's effectively a a sales organization. And, so when you look at the positions, we talked about this one on part of the disruption. Right? Like, we talked about, I think, two weeks ago.

What would be your first hire? Mhmm. There was two or three different opinions, but what what we cannot dispute is that hiring the right people regardless of if your first hires in an EA or a VA or an IPA, whatever the heck it is. Right? Like, make sure you define what the right person looks like.

And for me, that's typically they have to to to be a great example of our core values. They gotta be an ideal team player.

Steve: Mhmm.

Eric: It's a good book. It's, they gotta be humble, hungry, and smart. And smart refers to EQ, not necessarily IQ. We look at predictive index and disc and make sure that that person matches up with the right behavioral profile to fit in that position, and that they have a good cognitive ability in real estate. You gotta be a quick learner no matter what position.

And, if you're committed to doing that and, I posted this the other day and and got a lot of good feedback. It was an excerpt from one of Jim Collins' books that I'm reading, and he said, you can't motivate the wrong people. Right. Right? But what you can do is hire the right people and manage them in a way that they never become unmotivated.

Steve: That's powerful.

Eric: Because that's a lot of times what happens.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: Possibly what happened with one of the three COOs that I let down over the course of a seven year time frame. Because I might have hired the wrong person and then either not given them enough leadership or gave them too much management. Mhmm. Right? Where I didn't give them enough freedom, and, I might have unmotivated that person.

Steve: Yeah. It's, it's something I learned, again, recently from Larry. Yeah. I was just talking about, like, there's control centric where I gotta be in your business. Right?

And then there's empowerment centric. We're just like, alright, Eric. Do whatever. And what happens often is that we're either too control centric

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: Or too hands off. And we gotta find that right balance depending on the team member.

Eric: It's funny. Right? It's it's always that balance. Like, we was talking about, like, the the paradox of having visionary confidence that you can accomplish anything that you set your mind to Mhmm. But the willingness to stare the brutal facts in the face and and and allow people to give you the truth.

And by the way, like, shout out to to to Larry and Annie Yachts. Right? Like, when you talk about for those of you who don't know those people, like, when we talk about leadership and execution, like, my man operated as a steel team leader. Mhmm. Right?

So we talk about this the the high stakes of operating a mission Failure is expensive. Life or death.

Steve: Failure is very expensive.

Eric: Yeah. So it's pretty it's it's amazing. I've I've done some some training with them. I'm actively trying to to, figure out the timing of them coming in and working with our team and and working with me one on one to help us. Because he's got that whole new facet of the thing is it used to just be leadership.

Now he has that whole business aspect Yeah. Where he ties in what he's learned about leadership in the business. So for anybody that's looking for leadership training, I I I would strongly encourage you to to reach out to to Larry and Annie Yatch.

Steve: So one thing you talked about is, make sure you hire correctly. Right? We've all heard hire slow and fire fast. We've all heard it. Mhmm.

But a lot of us that are solo operators or run really small organizations say, I don't have time to to hire the right way. Like, I just need somebody now. I need to grow now, or I need to scale now. Yeah. What are you telling them?

Eric: I mean, I think it's almost obvious. Like, if you just ask that question and step away, they'll figure it out on their own.

Steve: Right.

Eric: The reason you don't have time to hire the right person is because you've hired the wrong person probably just prior to this. Right? I just read a book. I can't, remember the guy's name off the top of my head, but it's a CEO who only does three things. He talks about people, culture, and numbers.

Steve: Trey Taylor.

Eric: Yeah. Trey Taylor. Great book. Right? People, culture, numbers.

Like, as a CEO or a business owner, even if you're a one the most important thing you can do is take time to hire the right person. So here's the the other caveat that I would say to that, though. I think a lot of people give that advice, but no omit the fact that there's an urgent aspect of it. If you're constantly recruiting, you'll never be in a position to where you have to hire someone out of an urgent demand and not have the time to get the right person. So one of the things that you and I we spoke at CG and talked about this.

Right? Because of our activity on social media. I put up a post the other day just to to show you the the stark difference between someone that is active on social media and someone is not. I'm mildly active on social media. Right?

Put out one or two videos a day. I try and teach whatever I feel

Steve: like I'm qualified to teach. Pretty active.

Eric: It's mildly compared to you. Right? And, I put up a video Wednesday of last week that we were hiring for two sales positions. Mhmm. And I said and one of the things that's that that here's the small piece of advice I've learned that has worked well for me.

When I look at job descriptions, that's 95% saying this is what you have to contribute to the company. You need to be able to do this. You gotta be able to do this. This is how you should behave. This is and it's like Boring.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Why don't you tell me what it's like to work there? Mhmm. I'd like to flip the script.

Let me tell you 90% of this job posting what it's like to work here. Here's our training. Mhmm. We offer something, Benmont's idea. We launched two great ideas he had that that only two though.

That's the he's only had two great ideas. Everything else was mine. But there was two that we implemented this year that we've seen a phenomenal response to. One was, if we're at a 100% or higher of current monthly revenue goal, everybody's off Friday at 01:00. Mhmm.

It's the the the the response has been amazing. So I'm in Pennsylvania. Right? In the summer, that's the only time you can ever go outside. You guys have summer weather here all year.

But in December, like, people are in pain it's so cold. Right? So we try and make the most out of the summer. So if you're off at 12:00 on a Friday, you can go to the beach when you might not be able to do that at 05:00. You can go, you know, spend extra time with the family or do something.

So we've seen a tremendous response to that. Number two was we introduced perk days, which is your your work anniversary is now a day off. Mhmm.

Steve: Your wedding anniversary

Eric: is a day off.

Steve: Yeah. I saw that.

Eric: Your birthday yeah. And it's just, you know, so we we've really tried to that's when when you go into, talking about when you hire the right people, your primary job is to just make sure they never leave. Yeah. So we're constantly we believe we have great people. We want them to stay forever.

So we act as if we're constantly trying to recruit them. Bottom line is social media, when we talk about stuff like that, and I put that job ad out there, I said, here's all of the things that we'll offer you. And there was two sentences about what you need to do. Mhmm. Like to have some experience in sales, but it's not necessary.

It'd be cool if you understood real estate, but if not, we'll teach you. Yeah. But you need to align with our core values. Make sure when you send me an email and include your resume, and two examples of how you're humble, or you're excellent, and you're committed to improvement, or you've shown integrity. I got, Steve, 20 overqualified applicants.

Door to door salespeople. It's gotta be the hardest thing to do in the world. Yeah. And they make a lot of money. Right?

Mhmm. I I got someone that was actually drafted in the professional lacrosse league, drafted as a professional. I didn't even know that existed. Mhmm. Super competitive guy.

Sold, you know, life insurance policies, which is a cutthroat business. So just got overwhelmed with qualified applicants. Didn't even put an ad out on Indeed or or Facebook or anything. Meanwhile, I'm talking to a coaching client who's had an ad out for three months for an acquisitions agent in California and can't sniff a qualified applicant. Only real difference between our businesses, visible on social media, he doesn't even log in to Facebook.

Steve: So we're looking for humble people. Will you and I qualify for this role? Yeah. Yeah. You think so?

Eric: I I don't know, man. I I think, I I feel like you just kinda came at me there for a second. But I would say that I'm humble. I mean, I I I am confident, but, I I try and live by the the mantra of taking credit for nothing and the blame for everything.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: So maybe forced humility because I've learned it's just the the best way to lead people. Yeah. But, on camera, I'm very humble. After, the show, I I may make a couple parting comments that might not sound like the most humble guy in the world

Steve: with us. Let's go on to the next step. So step one, hiring the right people.

Eric: And we

Steve: kinda dove a little bit into, like, how to hire them.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: What after after that we're because we're talking about, like, this is like a wide thing. Right? Like, to go from start up to succession is not like a small venture. This is So there's

Eric: a couple creative things that I just had, before I came here today. I was working with someone on, preparing for their q four priorities. And, they were talking about a particular candidate. They said, well, what happens if we bring this person in and they learn everything about the business and they leave? Right?

So that's one of the things that I think is a is a constant sort of back and forth in this businesses. We hire people, they come in, they're a maverick, they're a venturer, they learn the business, and then they leave. Mhmm. So some people have responded that and go in the exact opposite direction. And they've hired a bunch of less than assertive people and put them in sales positions and then wonder why they struggle because they're so concerned that they'll hire an aggressive assertive person Yeah.

That'll leave. So two things. One, if someone comes to work for me and they do a good job and two years later, we outgrow the relationship, I feel fortunate that I got two years worth of good work out of them. Yeah. It's not the worst thing in the world, especially if you're constantly recruiting because you'll have a bench of people that would gladly step up.

So in our acquisitions department, we've actually created our lead management inside sales is is is like the g league for acquisitions. We hire salespeople and lead management, which is where I think a lot of people make mistakes. They try and hire administrative people that can answer the phone, but aren't really good at sales. Hire an aspiring acquisitions agent that can learn sales, teach them how to be a lead manager, and in a year and a half, roughly, I've seen the last three acquisitions agents that we've had have come through lead management.

Steve: So, if I was reading correctly

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: You guys allow your lead managers to be nationwide.

Eric: Mhmm.

Steve: So are yourselves your acquisition managers then?

Eric: No. Because we're all in person. So how would that work? Acquisitions. How would what work?

Steve: If they're starting as a lead manager in another state

Eric: Mhmm. How would

Steve: they become acquisition managers in your

Eric: problem. So that, they they would have less of ability to be able to make that transition.

Steve: Got

Eric: it. And not every person that comes in the lead management wants to be in acquisitions. Right. I've often said that, like, the perfect lead manager is someone that can get them all the way up to the appointment, but feels a little uncomfortable when it's time to make them a decision. Yeah.

So we actually call so I think we don't call them lead managers. We call them inside sales reps because we want them to think like, be treated like, and behave like a salesperson. We compensate them like salespeople. We train them like salespeople. We hold huddles like salespeople.

Lead manager to me is like a person that's organizing, like, data and placing it in places and it's like a warehouse manager. An inside sales rep is a salesperson. Their sale is the appointment. Yeah. A quality appointment means they've made a sale.

That makes sense? But back to my original point, we're talking about, like, the maverick and hiring the people. You can hire a maverick or a venture person. Let's just call it what it is. They're an they're they're an entrepreneurial Mhmm.

Style person. But you need to create an atmosphere inside of your organization that is conducive to an entrepreneur. So as a leader, one of the things that you can do to push those people out of your organization is you hire a maverick or a venture. Why do we normally do that? Because we don't have a sales process.

Mhmm. We don't have training. So we need someone that'll just figure it out.

Steve: Alright.

Eric: Right? And then we're surprised that after they figure it out, they're risky enough to go out and try it on their own. So if you hire a maverick or a venture, which is a great sales profile. Right? Mhmm.

You have to constantly create a higher ceiling for those people, or they're gonna feel like they gotta go out and do something on their own.

Steve: So two things here. First, I noticed you say Maverick Venture, but you didn't mention captain. Yes. So you don't put captain in that category? No.

Alright. Second question, for everyone that's listening, what the heck is a maverick and adventurer?

Eric: So I use, predictive index. It's a behavioral assessment. A maverick is a, they break it down into a, b, c, d. If you look at DISC, it's d I s c. A maverick is a very assertive, mostly very social, impatient person that doesn't pay attention to details.

Yeah.

Steve: It's a straight line. Right? D I s c.

Eric: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. When then the captain is they have some observation and some desire to be more precise. I I definitely see a distinct difference between a venture, and a maverick and a captain.

Mhmm. Captains are much more stable people. Yeah. But so And that's one of the Mavericks. Yes.

Yes.

Steve: An adventurer is what?

Eric: Pretty much the same as a maverick. Just a slightly skewed, I don't know which one it is between a, b, and c, but, I feel like a venture is probably that might actually be a more exaggerated version of a a maverick. I'd have to look at the difference between the two. They're very similar, very entrepreneurial spirited people that are super assertive. I would put maverick and venture almost Yeah.

Identical. Captain, much different. They they're much more organized.

Steve: So I think when we got into this, we're talking about, like, you have people that have had Mavericks and Ventures and got burned.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: And the lesson they took from it was

Eric: Not to hire them.

Steve: Not to hire those. Not not to grow the process. Not to have build build an environment that's forced them, but to just stop hiring them.

Eric: Yes. And then they go and hire the opposite. It's like a rebound after a bad breakup with your girlfriend. Right?

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: So they go and then hire the opposite Mhmm. Of a maverick or or a venturer or or those those particular profiles. And they end up with sometimes untrained, undisciplined, unassertive salespeople, which is doomed for failure. Right. So if you hire those people, they can succeed.

We we we've had a lot of success with some of the more promoter type profiles, which are way less assertive, or someone's who is more of a strategist that's very disciplined when it comes to process. But then we hold them accountable to the sales process. Mhmm. So they don't have the instincts to close a sale, but they have the discipline to a process that says, now's the time to ask for the sale. Yeah.

So any real profile can fit. It's just a matter of what atmosphere, what culture, what type of process, what type of accountability do you have. But generally, in a wholesale company, we hire Mavericks and Ventures because we have no process, we have no accountability, and they're likely to figure it out. But once you have systems and processes and accountability and coaching in place, you can hire a milder version of that Maverick or continue to hire that person and just know that you're gonna constantly have to create a higher ceiling for that person. But they're gonna feel like they've outgrown the opportunities that you provide, and they're gonna go out on their own.

Steve: So we talked about, you know, the the people component. What else is involved in trying to build a company with succession in mind?

Eric: You know, it's something that that that for me was always this elusive, like, purpose and core values and things of that sort. And I've spent, like, the last two years really diving in to leadership. And, because of how big of an impact my lack of leadership, you know, had on my life and my business, Each time that I made that transition, I've been through three executive level COO integrator style people, until I got to my fourth and and and now feel like I had a better understanding of the expectations of the position, and and I was able to improve as a leader to to properly support that person. And, I would say that the, you know, probably the biggest difference for me along those line repeat the question for me again so I make sure I

Steve: understand specifically. Like, the next step after people or Purpose.

Eric: Right? So, as I've dug into that, I've learned just how important it is. And it's not something when we start the business, we go who's like, what what market are you in? Mhmm. What's your number one lead strategy?

Steve: Right.

Eric: Right? And are you virtual in person? No one says, hey. What's your company purpose? But it's literally what people care about almost as much, if not more than how much they're paid.

Like, we've seen, you know, I spent a lot of time with with sharper business solutions and stuff like that. And part of our empire curriculum is, companies that lead with purpose outperform their peers by a 120%. Yeah. It's what gets people to work at a place longer for less money, when they get that emotional paycheck in addition to the financial paycheck. So some of that stuff is, you know, sort of a brash, car guy that that grew up in the car business.

We didn't talk about touchy feely stuff like purpose. But we went through the exercise of of defining our company's purpose. And then part of what Larry and and Annie teach is how you have nested purpose at each one of the departments and how they feed up into the purpose of the company, and then each individual has their own purpose. Like, what is what why are you here? When you leave, what would you want people to say about you when you're gone?

Steve: Yeah. And I think, you know, just finding and understanding people's purpose, they now feel like they're a part of the mission. So we've talked about, hiring and so on. And, oh, before I forget, you've got a great video on your company's purpose and everyone's individual's purpose. And that, I mean, that is the best, reinforcement, right, demonstrating that you believe, in purpose.

So that's hiring. Now one of the less fun parts of running a business is letting people go. So can you talk about, accountability and what leads to them, you know, self eliminating from the company?

Eric: Yes. So I read this actually, and I think it was in, the the the CEO that only does three things. Trey

Steve: Taylor.

Eric: Taylor. And he actually put it into a a unique perspective, and he was talking about, like, you know, people that aren't performing or they're having maybe some personality conflicts with with coworkers and how we struggle sometimes with that. And I've I've struggled with that as a as a business owner before where I hold on to relationships longer than I probably should because I feel bad. And he actually said in there, and I might not get the words exactly right, but hopefully the point will come across, there's nothing more cruel than to keep somebody in a position to where they feel underappreciated when they're not winning, and then understanding how that has an impact on their life when they leave. Yep.

Right? So when it comes to to firing, one of the things that that that we've, I think, done a really good job with people, when they're not performing is we always eliminate two things. And this comes from, you know, tons of business studies that that you can go out and you can Google it and say 80% of the time when someone's not performing, it's two things. Lack of clear expectations or insufficient training and resources. So the instant that someone's not performing, we go, hey.

We just wanna restate the expectations. Are they crystal clear?

Steve: Mhmm.

Eric: And then we give them an opportunity to to weigh in before we ask them to to buy back in. Right? A lot of times we go, these are the expectations. You're crystal clear, aren't you? We're just not asking a question that's gonna, like, make it okay for them to give us the truth.

Right? So that's where you get I call compliance versus commitment, and that shows up in results very different.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: If someone's walking around this office and they're complying with your vision, that doesn't show up the same way as someone that's committed to it. Yeah. So we eliminate clear expectations, and then we also make sure that we've given them proper training and they have access to resources. They might not have the right tech, or they might not have, the right piece of equipment or something like that. 80% of the time when someone's not performing, it's one of those two things.

So when they're not performing, we restate expectations, make sure that they're committed, and get clarity around the fact that they have all the resources and the training that they need. That's typically a verbal conversation. If they don't make an improvement, we have a written, what we call PIP or performance improvement plan, where we now document the expectations and say, hey, here's the expectation of improvement over this next thirty day time frame, and if we don't improve in this area by x amount, then the next appropriate action would be this. Whatever that is. And then normally by the time you get there, they're gonna opt out.

If they're not the right person, they're gonna say, hey, listen. I'm crystal clear in the expectations. Just don't think I'm cut out for it. Yeah. And you've done that person a service.

Like, we always feel bad when we terminate a relationship. But, like, if if they can't do the job or don't wanna do the job, to Trey's point, it is cruel to hold them hostage to that position. You're keeping them from doing something they'd be far better at, that they could probably make more money, that wouldn't impact their personal life and happiness the way that this does.

Steve: Might be easier for them to actually do.

Eric: Heck, yeah.

Steve: So, two different things here. So you keep mentioning Trey Taylor.

Eric: Yeah. So

Steve: we're working on getting him on the show. The other thing you're mentioning, compliance versus commitment.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: Like, you're gonna do this. Right? Is that's the Yeah. Kinda we're kinda forcing it on them. So you actually recommended a book that was profoundly impactful for me, which is that leadership is language.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: Right? So that that navy admiral or captain where he talks about asking questions that gets buy in Mhmm. Versus asking suggestive questions that get buy in. And they're two totally different things.

Eric: Like an actual question, not a statement with a question mark at the end.

Steve: Right.

Eric: Right? They're they're two different things. And again, I'm reading a really good book right now, Jim Collins, and he talks about, Winston Churchill. Right? When he see when he was leading his troops, and, he had an information department.

And their only responsibility was to come and report the brutal facts Mhmm. Of about the reality of their situation. And we don't often set that up or have that present inside of our business. And I've been like that multiple times where I've been like, I don't wanna hear the bad news. It's gonna mess up my my vibe.

Right? It's just gonna kill my positive momentum or my outlook, but, you can't fix what you don't know is broken. And, Leadership Language is a really good book and it's changed a lot, about how I communicate with people because I was getting compliance, not commitment.

Steve: Well, you and I have pretty strong personalities. We're both visionaries. So when we say, this is what we're gonna do, like, everyone kinda goes on. And I may say, it's like, hey, like, you're in. Right?

Like, yes.

Eric: It's not even really a question. Right? It's just it's it's a statement, and you're almost, like, not like, if you ever watch, like, you'll you'll you're in. Right? And you're, like, what are they supposed to say?

Like, you're the boss. Right. Right? So and if you don't create a culture where people will push back and go, no. I'm actually not in.

I don't understand it, or I don't think that's the right thing to do by the customer. If you don't create that culture, you either have to fix your language to make it easier for people to confront you and make suggestions about what's best for the customer, best for the team, or best for the desired outcome, or really change your language so that it's more likely that people will will make suggestions even if it doesn't align with what you're thinking.

Steve: So the you know, for everyone that's listening, right, debating whether they get the book or not, like, for me, the I've always encouraged, input. I've always encouraged to challenge me. Yeah. And I've said that forever, but the words weren't lined up necessarily with how how they felt. And the the best example I can give for that was, I would say, let me know if I'm if I'm missing something.

And there that's not a safe space versus, like, what are you seeing that I'm not seeing?

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: That's a safe space. Yeah.

Eric: It's funny. I heard someone say, before is that we don't just have to give people their chance to have their say. Mhmm. We have to give them the chance to be heard. Yeah.

Right? Because it's going hey. You gotta give them their say. That's lip service. Right?

It's like, hey, man. I asked if anybody had any questions. I told you to tell me if I was missing anything. Like, what the heck? Mhmm.

You actually have to give them a chance to be heard.

Steve: It's

Eric: and this is what I'm talking about. Like, earlier on when I said, you know, leadership is the toughest thing. This is all we're talking about is leadership stuff. And as a visionary assertive style person, to say to someone, hey, I'm not the smartest person in the world. I mess up all the time.

I feel like this is one of the situations where I move really quick, and I get everybody excited about a project. And then three weeks later, something smacks us in the side of the face, and all of you guys saw it coming Mhmm. And I didn't. I feel like this could be one of those situations. Do me a favor.

Tell me what I'm missing. Yeah. Right? Like, that does not feel natural to me. But I've seen the benefit of asking the question that way, and then literally someone will go, I'm glad you said something.

I think this is a big mistake. If it turns out this doesn't happen the way that we want it to, this could cripple the whole project. Right? Like, Larry talks about that. Like, we don't fail or we don't plan to fail.

Like, we go into it and goes, if everything goes perfect, we'll be fine. Yeah. Well, how often does everything go perfect? Like, literally never. Right?

And then we're everybody's scrambling and trying to figure out what we should do. So if you just have some some contingency plans in place, right, and that will normally come from your staff when you give them the permission to disagree with you, you're gonna reduce a lot of the fallout and complexity they have. And by the way, how much do they appreciate that when they're able to be heard? And the boss is saying, like, I'll tell them flat out, you're smarter than I am. Right?

I've just been here longer. That's why my name's on the sign. Right? But I rely on you to tell me what I'm missing. I really need you to to to look at this from from that side of the table and tell me what I'm what I'm overlooking or what could possibly go wrong here.

Steve: Yeah. The delivery is so important.

Eric: It sells. It sells. It's just like we we we we you know, I was talking with a friend of mine earlier about a tough situation I had with my son. Shout out Camden Brewer. He might be watching right now.

He's playing in a men's league basketball game with a bunch of 30 year olds. He had the game winning assist last night, and, he told me he was gonna tune in before he went to his game. But I had a tough situation with him, and I found that I was doing a better job leading the people at the office than I was my people at home. And, almost like, you know, turned it off when I get home. It's like, oh, I gotta be a really good leader when I'm at the office.

But when I get home, they understand. Mhmm. They'll tolerate my crappy behavior. And I had an instance where I was I just wouldn't be in a as good of a father, and a leader as I needed to be with him. And I was you agree.

Right? That's the right thing to do. Right? I was I was doing that. And I needed to to give him more of an opportunity to tell me what was really going on.

And, turns out long story short, he's gone through his senior year at high school. He's probably a CUSP division one scholarship athlete, and he's got a tremendous amount of pressure that he puts on himself right now every single game, every camp, every shot. And I was applying more pressure, and it was not helping him. Yeah. The And, he just needed me to be supportive, who I guess was the the the case.

Steve: I I love that you're bringing home, like, the leadership part, and you can just turn off when you get home. Because I used to think right? Like, I need to be on, you know, at the office, but I could just take it easy at home. And, last week, my daughter, right, she's 11 years old, and she's just she just throws her backpack on the floor. Right?

Like, it's just kinda what you do as teenager, preteen, whatever.

Eric: Or a 46 year old man. I throw my stuff around too. But

Steve: my wife's like, you need to go talk to your daughter and tell her this is not acceptable. I was like, well, I went back to her. I was like, hey. You know, like, do you think that was acceptable? What do you think is the best practice Yeah.

When you get home? And have her create, like, the best, you know, routine after she gets home. And then that point, I'm reviewing it, not directing it. Yeah. And now there's it's a lot easier.

So one of we originally connected through Collective Genius.

Eric: We did.

Steve: Right? And it was one of the best decisions I ever made was was joining CG. And after I joined, you got moved up into the leadership Mhmm. Team. Can you tell me a little bit about that journey?

Eric: Yeah. So it's, it's actually one of the the the milestones in in my life that I'm most proud of. And I came into Collective Genius really just looking for a way to to generate more seller leads. And that was that was it. I went looking for called a friend of a friend, Brad Chandler, who now is a really good friend of mine, a fellow CG member.

And, I was talking to somebody. I was like, man, you know, I need to figure out a way to buy more homes. The MLS just doesn't cut anymore. You probably remember from our, you know, first conversation when I started in 2006 all the way up to probably, goodness, 2015, I was able to buy 200 homes a year off the MLS and sheriff sale and short sales and, you know, auction sites and all that good stuff. And I started to to see that that was becoming harder and harder.

The the the the the, you know, profits were getting compressed, and so I'm working twice as hard making less money. Generally, just not my favorite thing.

Steve: Right.

Eric: And got introduced to CG, went to the first meeting. I was like, this is the place for me. They had direct mail providers. They had sales trainers. They had PPC guys.

They had Facebook. I was like, dude, this is like a buffet of bucks here. Like, you just walk in and pay your $30 a year and you make 300. This is an awesome deal.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: And, I was like one of the guys. Right? I was hanging out. Always look forward to going to the meetings. Would come with, like, one or two things I needed help with, and I always left with the answer to what I needed.

Mhmm. It created some pretty cool friendships along the way. But as I was in CG, I was going through, you know, these other sort of seasons of my business where I needed to hire a COO, and I needed to to become a better leader, and I needed to develop my people better. So as I'm developing as a leader, each the Eric that showed up at CG looked a little bit different. Right?

From being one of the guys to being someone that might present and present on something, that was impactful and and maybe, it more advanced than than than than what other people were experiencing. And it was simply because of the success that I was having with the the people that I was able to get to come work for me. And and then I was able to create an atmosphere where they didn't wanna leave. And, it allowed me to to be able to speak on that. It's like, hey, I've gone through this.

Like, one thing people always talk about in our business is, like, the instant they get to a place to where they have some money, they wanna go hire a COO. Mhmm. Right? And it's like, first of all, there's a difference between an integrator and a COO. Most people's business need an integrator.

The way that I see it is integrator, not so much leadership responsibility. COO, bunch of leadership responsibility. So I would tell you to get crystal clear on which one of those you need. If you plan on still being in the business and being involved in leadership, you can hire an integrator. Mhmm.

If you wanna step away a little bit, right, to go do other projects or maybe just to disconnect from the business, you need a COO. They cost two different prices Mhmm. And they're two different people. Right? But what happened was is I was able to talk about that journey with people when I was becoming a better leader.

And CG said, hey, listen. We've kinda watched you evolve from this guy that, you know, came in looking for leads to now people kind of look to you for advice when it comes to sort of all things real estate and leadership and business, and they invited me to be a facilitator, which means they run a room of 30 people that are there to get the most out of a meeting. It's a huge responsibility. And, turns out I love it. I think I'm pretty good at it.

It's given me the opportunity to speak on that main stage, which you've been arm and arm with me, you know, and we we delivered probably what I would say one of the top 10, like, non keynote presentations in the last five years that I've been around, where we encouraged what 200 people to get out their cell phones and get active on social media. In that meeting, people were coming up to us like, dude, I just bought a 16 unit apartment building off that Facebook post.

Steve: It's crazy.

Eric: Rob Neilinger now. Right? That guy was, like, not on social media. We talked about him in a little case study, and he's all over TikTok. He's he's up to, like, 12,000 followers.

He and he's really good at it. Yes. And when we first talked to me, so, dude, I'm just I don't really like to do it now. You know, he's all over my my my for you page. Yeah.

So it has been, life changing for me. Being part of the group and then being asked to be part of the leadership team has introduced me, to a mentor style relationship with people in this real estate community. And turns out, it's probably the thing that I was put here to do. I I think positively impacting people by developing meaningful relationships and then leveraging my experience to help them through whatever phase of life or business that they're going through. Because business can be hard, man.

And, it can it can break you down if you let it. And, I've been through there. I mean, I've been through sleepless nights where I was worried about my my business.

Steve: Mhmm.

Eric: And how was I gonna manage it? And if I'm gonna hire somebody, and can I afford it? And are we gonna make payroll? And that's tough.

Steve: I think there's a lot of people going through that right

Eric: now, Bob. It's it's it's and you know what? And we haven't created we haven't created an atmosphere to where it's okay for people to talk about that. Mhmm. Like, it's a bunch of entrepreneurs, super assertive people.

Outside of CG, I've never seen a place. But I was at the last collective genius, which let me get to figure this is what back in June.

Steve: Mhmm.

Eric: It's literally when, like, stuff was popping off.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: Rates were skyrocketing. Fuel prices are through the roof. Right? We're, like, smack dab in the middle of Build Back Better. Right?

But, so everybody's there with their eyes wide open. Like, what is gonna happen? There was there was so much attention at that meeting. Everybody was on the edge of their seat. And, there was a big one of the the the the, you know, owners of a major operation in there that, I had a conversation with shortly after lunch about trying to navigate through this.

And, you know, they were seeing their business change in real time. And at the end of the meeting, I turned around and he came up to me. He dropped his book bag and he hugged me. Six three six four Mhmm. 50 year old man.

And he just sobbed. And I was like, woah. Like, what, like, what's going on? He just after he hugged me, he's like, man, just thank you so much. Like, I was just so, you know, distraught about what I was gonna do, and I just feel better.

Like, everything's gonna be okay. And it's like, will you talk to me once a week or so between now and whenever I feel better? Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it's just so for me, that was the thing.

Like, at the end of that meeting, it was it was probably the most anxious I've ever been to show up to a CG event because I knew how much it meant to people. The market was changing in real time. It felt like 2008. It felt like COVID when it first hit. Nobody knew what was gonna happen.

And for a business owner I mean, I remember when they shut my business down in Pennsylvania, I was scared to death. Yeah. Like, literally, you weren't allowed to go to work.

Steve: Right. Right?

Eric: Unless you had a waiver. That's right. Yeah. Unless we don't get me started on that. This this will get deleted if we talk too much about that.

Right? Like,

Steve: one of and by the way, you and I, we had an opportunity to speak on stage together. And, man, the that experience, working with you, working with Benmont, right, gave me a whole new level of, appreciation. What goes into making a main stage?

Eric: Sixty hours. We measured it. It's about sixty hours for per person. Yeah. And so sixty sixty man hours to prepare for one of those presentations.

We spent a ton of time on that.

Steve: Yeah. But it was awesome. So since then as well, or in the last since you were last on here, you sold your broker. So I I I shut down my brokerage. Last week was officially the end of Stunning Homes Realty.

Right? We moved we all moved our license over the real. So you also, in not too long ago, also shut down your brokerage.

Eric: Yeah. So Well yeah. So shut down my involvement.

Steve: Shut down your involvement. I apologize. Yeah.

Eric: So I was I mean, I was an active, owner. I was an active participant. And, I just frankly I mean, the real estate agent business, is tough. It's it's very transactional. I think a lot of real estate brokerages and companies struggle to build a culture that's rooted in purpose that people actually buy into.

And more so in the real estate agent side of the business, I've seen, like, I call them split hoppers. Like, they're constantly hopping from one brokerage to another because of the split. Mhmm. Right? Or the transaction fee, and it's like, man, if we're literally gonna have conversations about whether or not you're coming to work here because of a $3.95 transaction fee or the difference between 75% split and 79% split, We just haven't created enough value in this relationship.

Like, I just I don't wanna worry about that at all times. And, I had some some really good partners in that business, all of which we still do a tremendous amount of business with. Yeah. I just didn't wanna be involved in that. I felt like it was something that was a distraction for me.

And, I'm probably leaving a tremendous amount of money on the table, but I haven't worried about it. I haven't talked about it. I haven't been part of a meeting in four months. And oddly enough, two of our top their top producers sixty days ago left Yeah. For something very similar.

Nothing happened. No big problems. Like, hey.

Steve: Better than that.

Eric: In. They knew nothing about real estate. They now are $78,000,000 producers, and the value proposition looks a little bit different than them. They don't need someone to look over their deals. They don't necessarily need us to provide them leads.

So I I just feel like particularly in that business that it it's just really, really hard even more so than in our business to retain talent.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: Because they're all entrepreneurs. Like, they're ten ninety nines. Right? They just they they like to come and go as they please. If you ask real estate agents, I bet the number one answer if you're on, Family Feud and said what the top answer was about why they get into real estate, it was flexibility of schedule.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Which translates to I might not necessarily wanna work a lot. Yeah.

You know, so Well, I bring this up. Big deal.

Steve: Because you sent me a text message just randomly. Right? It's like, hey.

Eric: What

Steve: do you think about owning a brokerage?

Eric: It's like,

Steve: I've already owned one, but I'm closing it.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And you texted me because someone had reached out to you. Right? And so there's a lot of people in our side as far as the, wholesaling side. So you know what?

I'm gonna open a brokerage and get another stream of revenue.

Eric: I think that was a loaded question that I asked you. I wanted you to say, not the best thing in the world. Right. So I think it's it's no different than anything else. I I would tell you what I've learned now is if you're gonna do it, it needs to be treated as a different business unit, which requires a BUL, a business unit leader.

Mhmm. It needs an integrator level style person to run that business. Right? It's not a bold on business. It's not like, oh, we'll just send the leads over there and we'll get all this commission.

Those people have a a a different client that they serve. They're paid differently. It looks very similar because it's a house and money. Mhmm. But it's different.

So I think it's generally, a a good way to create, you know, ancillary income off of the leads that we create because we're only gonna, you know, convert, what, 10% of the leads that we get on average. So those other 90% certainly could be monetized through those relationships. But generally managing a brokerage at the broker level, not like the in the Keller Williams model, which we're we're part of, they call it the mega agent. Mhmm. Right?

Where you are the person that drives all the listings.

Steve: Yeah. Mega agent makes sense.

Eric: Correct.

Steve: Owning brokerage. Not so much. I mean,

Eric: if you're paying a mega agent 90 like, what's left over? Yeah. And then you have all of the liability of the infrastructure, the building, like, all of the liability that comes along with compliance, like, the mega agents the spot to be.

Steve: Yeah. Not

Eric: so much the brokerage. But, you know, some people have figured it out and do a great job with it. In my market, our average home sales only