Chris Eymann on How He's Wholesaled 8000+ Properties and Lent $1,000,000,000+

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we've got the legendary Chris Eiman with Sell Wholesale Houses. And he's here to share how his company has moved over 8,000 properties and lent over half $1,000,000,000 in private lending. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, broker owner of Stunning Homes Realty, cofounder of the OfferFast app, the only app you need for wholesaling, and I help people become real estate entrepreneurs.

If you're excited for today's show, please give me some waves or some thumbs up. And before we get started, I started this show because I wanna give back to our community. I definitely had some struggles in the very beginning of my career, and I'm sure you faced some struggles Of course. In your very long career. And so we wanna shortcut that struggle for as many young leaders as possible.

I I don't charge a dime for this show. I don't make any money doing this. So here's all I ask. This is all it costs for you to listen to this show. If you get value, please tell a friend.

Either share this episode right now, tag a friend below, or tell them your best takeaway from this show later on. That way we can all grow together. Don't forget that this is a live show, so please post your questions for Chris to answer. Are you ready?

Chris Eymann: Ready. Let's go.

Steve: Alright. What got you into real estate?

Chris: Actually was a tech guy, worked for Phils Petroleum, couple other companies. And during the tech downturn, got laid off twice in the same year. That lovely conference room call where it's, hey, Chris. Come to the conference room. Here's your check.

Threw an extra couple weeks on there, and that was it.

Steve: That was what what what year?

Chris: It was '98, '99. And, I jumped into the

Steve: That was right around the .com? Bus. Bus. Okay.

Chris: And then, jumped into the two week class for real estate, drove around a buyer for three weeks and had her call me on week four and said, oh, I just called off a sign and that agent got me a house. And, I went down the foreclosure steps. Been going ever since.

Steve: So it wasn't that long for when you were licensed to screw it.

Chris: Yep. Pretty much pretty much a couple

Steve: of months. Couple of months, work by buyer, and I forget it. Okay. So, after that, so you went straight into auction?

Chris: Yep. Straight to auction.

Steve: So then did you do wholesale first or did you private lending first?

Chris: No. So I started, buying, at the auction steps. I was just buying for my own account rehab, and I'm selling them. But, you know, networking got me we're watching football. I'm telling you that I'm buying at the auctions.

And this is before anybody's buying at the auctions. Right? This is Yeah. 99.

Steve: Right.

Chris: So, literally, it it didn't take much, like, six to eight months by the time I'm buying one, you know, calling everybody up or actually they're calling me and they're like, what'd you buy today?

Steve: And I'm

Chris: like, about 123 Main Street. I bought it for a $100. You can have it for a 102. Bring the $2 in cash. And that was that was pretty much the wholesale.

And I was wholesaling within a year of, you know, of starting in real estate.

Steve: Okay. So this is $19.99, 2,000?

Chris: Yeah. Basically.

Steve: Okay. So you're wholesaling. And what was the process? What was that journey like from, you know, making the 2,000 on on a deal to, I mean, your next junction? So

Chris: I, I was just kinda like an independent. Then, I joined a group, Buy Easy Foreclosures. Mhmm. There were three of us in that that group. And, you know, there was two main groups down at the at the trustee sales.

Steve: Okay.

Chris: Andy, who's in my coaching business with me, was one of the groups. And then, you know, me and a couple other guys are in the other group and

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: Just grudge bidding each other every day for, you know, six years.

Steve: And so you guys are doing buying auction courthouse thefts for six years?

Chris: Yeah. And we're just wholesaling. Right? This is before any bid services. This is just buy on your own account, mark it up, $3, $5, $20, whatever you can get away with,

Steve: and wholesale it. Who are you wholesaling it to?

Chris: Just, you know, buyers. Back then, it wasn't, like, text blast. It was just all email blast. You know, I was So back then, email blast would work? Email blast was the only way to distribute.

And then you could, you know, do some cold calling and people called you. Yeah. But there wasn't even texting back then. Right? It was just email blast.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. And then what got you into private money lending?

Chris: So in about 2003, I met a couple guys that had a couple truckloads of money. Mhmm. And, they're they came to me and, like, like, hey. I was borrowing hard money myself, and they're like, hey, you know, borrow my money. And instead of paying other guys, just borrow my money and then you can lend it out and make the spread.

So I started doing that in o three. The guy that I was borrowing hard money from saw a big piece of his business going away. Next thing I know, we had a $25,000,000 line of credit with Wells Fargo that went to

Steve: a $100,000,000.

Chris: Oh, nice. Probably had the $100,000,000 line by o five, I think.

Steve: Okay. So money wasn't tight yet No. At that time.

Chris: Yeah. They're giving out a $100,000,000 line credit.

Steve: Yeah. No. That's pretty that sounds awesome. So you would he would borrow from Wells Yep. Lend it to you, and he would make that spread.

Chris: Oh, I was also on the Wells line.

Steve: So Oh, you're also on the Wells line?

Chris: Yeah. Okay. I also signed that personal guarantee

Steve: So then you guys are making the spread between what you guys are borrowing from Wells.

Chris: Right. So we were at prime plus two, and we were lending at eighteen. This is before everybody was in hard money. Right?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Eighteen was I still remember the first time I I was at an Azure event back in 2007. Yeah. I was like, 18%.

What's going on here?

Chris: Plus a thousand dollar fee.

Steve: Yeah. What who would agree to this? Now I know a lot of people agree to it. Right. Okay.

So you got into private lending. What were some of your early struggles then on the prime on the private lending side?

Chris: There wasn't a lot of early struggles. This is this is way before everybody's in the business. Everybody's in the money business and the wholesale business. I mean, everybody. Now it's then it was just two groups and we we basically controlled the whole city.

Steve: Oh, really?

Chris: And as far as hard money lenders, there were there were more hard money lenders. There's probably three or four, but, I mean, our portfolio was $80,000,000. Wow. So and loans are turning over. So I I mean, it said you said put 500,000,000.

I don't actually know. We're turning over $80,000,000 every hundred and twenty to a hundred and thirty days Wow. For years. So Yeah. I mean, do the math on that.

That's 240,000,000 a year.

Steve: Yeah. So you're probably over 1,000,000,000 then lent Yeah. In your career.

Chris: I just didn't wanna

Steve: Okay. So, then the recession occurred. Right? So you you started during the tech bust. There was nine eleven.

You said, like, that didn't really affect you so much. Yeah. And then you went through and had this great growth that we're like, similar to what we're experiencing today, and then a recession hit.

Chris: Right. What Technically, it wasn't a recession. It was the secondary money. The secondary market quit buying paper.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: So, like, if you can't sell paper, you can't reoriginate a loan. And if you're a hard money lender

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And there's no recourse, they just start handing back the keys.

Steve: Right. Yeah. So but you are still borrowing, you know, whatever the $100,000,000 line of credit. Were you was that close to you? Or that's that was still maintained open the whole time?

Chris: No. So it, we would we would borrow a $100,000 from we'd lend a $100,000. Wells would buy 90% of that. And then you have these covenants or rules that you have to follow.

Steve: I see.

Chris: But as your foreclosure rate grows, because, you know, if the secondary market can't buy paper Mhmm. You're a fix and flipper that has a hard money loan, but the guy buying your house can't get a loan. So no one can sell a house. Right? So, you know, Wells Fargo, as soon as you get outside the rules

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: They just lock your bank account down. Yeah. And you got no money.

Steve: So then what did you do in that situation?

Chris: Oh, you just, we came asset manager. We foreclosed on quite a bit of houses, you know, dealt with them. I think I think 02/1978, and '9 were dealt with, you know, doing a lot of that. And then I went out.

Steve: So taking over properties that you guys lent on for a fix and flip guys.

Chris: Right.

Steve: Okay.

Chris: So did a lot of that. That wasn't actually, my position in the company. And then I started another venture and, you know, went back at it. Mhmm. So what

Steve: was that other venture?

Chris: Oh, sell wholesale houses. Okay.

Steve: So So that's when you became another wholesaling entity.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: So there was two there was buy a z foreclosures, and what was the one?

Chris: No. That's so sell wholesale houses. So when the our group when the downturn hit, we just kinda all went our own different ways. Right. And then so sell wholesale houses pretty much started in 07/00/2008, and then went from there.

Steve: And that was you by yourself?

Chris: I

Steve: have my sister's my partner. Your sister. Who's your sister?

Chris: Kim Mudd.

Steve: Okay. She's the one. Because I noticed she's she's listed a few of your properties.

Chris: Yeah. She was. Yeah. She's a

Steve: good broker. Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. Alright. Okay.

So you had to shift your business in that time You became an asset manager. Started, unfortunately, to take over properties. But you were you were still on the hook, right, with with Personal guarantee. Personal guarantee.

Chris: Yeah. I lost everything.

Steve: You lost everything. Yeah. So you were one of the guys then, like, yeah, these guys are losing their properties, but you were also losing your properties.

Chris: My o eight tax return said negative $4,200,000. That's I'll just that explains it.

Steve: Negative 4,200,000.0. Were you able to carry that loss forward at least? Okay. So there's a win there. There's some Small win.

Small win. Okay. So knowing what you know today, what will you do differently, if you're starting if you're starting over, like, right now?

Chris: No personal guarantees.

Steve: No personal guarantees?

Chris: Right.

Steve: Okay.

Chris: And then, obviously, you know, watch the market. Yeah. I was a little bit leveraged. I was having fun. I was making a lot of money.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Right? And Right. And I made a lifestyle that was off making a lot of money.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And I make pretty good money, and my lifestyle is almost all cash.

Steve: Yeah. So you're a little bit less leveraged today

Chris: Yes.

Steve: Than you were back then?

Chris: Yes.

Steve: Okay. So private lending is extremely competitive in Phoenix today. Actually, I met with a lender today, and she shared with me that they're in multiple states. But she enjoys North Carolina the most because there, you can charge two points and get 14. Right.

Wow. Yeah. You can't get away with that here. No. So how do you set yourself apart in Phoenix with private lending?

Chris: You know, I don't, I just keep building the network. Mhmm. And everybody's gonna get their piece of the pie. Yeah. I'm not gonna chase down rates for business.

Right. You know, I don't have bank lines, so I don't have any personal guarantees, and I'm not going down that road again. Mhmm. So and I'm also not gonna chase down lowering my down payment and and risking it because real estate cycles. Right?

Steve: Yeah. It does.

Chris: I've been through the rodeo one time. I'm not going through it again. Right. So, yeah, if, if my portfolio shrinks but but I got a really great portfolio, I'm great with that. I got no problems.

Steve: So if you don't mind sharing, like, what is like, you know, I I got this great deal today, Chris. I've got it at 70% of market value. I bring it to you. What am I borrowing it at?

Chris: I'm generally 15 to 2020% down. Mhmm. I stretch below that every now and then if you're getting a really good deal. But, generally, it's you know, because if you don't have any you know, I saw I think I saw 5% down recently. I've definitely seen 10 a lot.

Lot. Mhmm. If you have the ability to just walk away, you just walk away. Yeah. I mean, it's no recourse state.

There is no recourse. No. There's not. You just walk away.

Steve: Right.

Chris: So, you know, and I I've seen a little bit of the first part of people trying to get away with that down payment. This buddy selling to this buddy. You know?

Steve: I caught

Chris: I caught one of those four days ago. This buddy selling to this buddy, you know, assignment fee of $15 and their down payment's $15, you know.

Steve: I see. Okay. And what are your what are your rates right now on the 15%,

Chris: 15% down? 15% down is 14%. 20% down is 12.

Steve: Okay. So that's not that's not bad. Yeah. Okay. So but what will you tell someone, you know, and they're like, hey, Chris.

I'm looking at you. I'm looking at option b. I'm looking at option c. And I I say, you know, why should I go with you? What do you say?

Chris: I'm just saying, we've been in the business a long time. Mhmm. We're pretty reliable. But I won't chase down rate if I mean, I trust me. I get people like, hey.

They'll do 11. I'm like

Steve: Great.

Chris: Go get it. Yeah. I appreciate come back to me next time when they run out of money or or something doesn't work. I get

Steve: Or they'll fund on time.

Chris: Yeah. It's all economics. Right? And I get it. People need to make money, and I'm not willing to chase down rate or down payment to, you know, try to get business.

Steve: Right. And then same question, wholesaling. Yeah. Again, extremely competitive. If we're not the most competitive wholesale market, I don't know what it is.

Chris: Everybody's a wholesaler in this market.

Steve: Yeah. Everyone's a wholesaler today. So what sets you apart, competitively for wholesaling? Why should someone wholesale with you? Or

Chris: Well, I'm once again, I'm not a I'm not a wholesaler that just is trying to assign every deal. Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: I got a $30,000,000 hard money company that I control. So if I need to fund, I can fund. Right. And we all try to wholesale. I make mistakes.

I buy too expensive every now. I'm I'm not perfect, but at least I have the cash to pay for it Yeah. When the time comes. Other wholesalers don't have the cash to pay for it. So, I mean, I've that's the benefit of working with me.

If I say I'm buying it, I'm buying it.

Steve: Mhmm. So So there's no, like, oh, man. We can't perform.

Chris: Yeah. No. I'm and I'm I made mistakes. I, I did a deal that I bought. And sometimes, I mean, to be competitive and beat people to the the house

Steve: Mhmm. You know, I buy off

Chris: pictures 95% of the time. I don't I don't get the walk through. So, you know, I walked into

Steve: a house that someone has sold me. And I walked in through

Chris: the front door, and I'm just like, man. And I knew the second I walked in the house that I was was losing money. And I had a $5,000 earnest money. I just called my buddy, and I'm like, hey. Can I just walk from the $5?

Just go sell it to somebody else. And that was this is two weeks foreclose. Mhmm. And he's like, come on. It's an old guy.

He's already moved. And I'm just like, alright. I knew that I was losing more than $5. I closed on the house. I think I lost 10 or 11.

But, I mean, I could've just walked from the earnest money

Steve: You could've.

Chris: And saved myself 5 or $6.

Steve: Yeah. What did you see when you walked in that you knew you were losing money on that deal?

Chris: It was a tri level. So that you walked in the house, you walked down the right stairs four steps into the living room, and four stairs up into the dining room with the kitchen.

Steve: Yeah. I know those tri levels.

Chris: The second I walked through the door, I'm like

Steve: Alright. So, what does a good referral look like to you?

Chris: I mean, anybody that and I get agents that Mhmm. You know, don't know all the other wholesalers in town. So Yeah. Hey. This guy buys houses.

I think I just got one in Old Town Scottsdale for $2.55, which you don't see very often. No. You don't. So, and that was just an agent, you know, calling me saying, hey. This guy wants to sell an Old Town Scottsdale.

I came across a $2.55.

Steve: I'm like, yeah. Grab it. Right. Yeah. So someone that, has a deal tied up and doesn't know what to do with it.

Or an agent that Yeah.

Chris: You know, you walk in and they got 12 dogs or, you know, they've never thrown one thing away for the twenty years that lived there. Right. You know, all those, you know, agents that don't know have the referral, once it gets to the wholesale group, I mean, the prices just get lifted and lifted and lifted. Right?

Steve: It's nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By the time you get to you, if some if there's not been a wholesaler or two along the way Yeah.

There's nothing left.

Chris: Right.

Steve: Right. Yeah. Okay. What do you attribute your success to? I mean, you've been doing this for almost twenty years now.

Like, how have you had the staying power to still be in the in the business? I mean, there's so much change constantly. How have you been able to stay on top of it?

Chris: Well, what's funny is I'm not as good as all the younger people in the business with social media and all that. Actually, it was kinda funny. I read an email, that said, I wanna make sure that the person coming to coffee is legit because I I don't wanna waste my time. My, I can attribute most of my successes. If someone asked me to coffee Mhmm.

It's five minutes. It's ten minutes. Yeah. I went to coffee with almost every person. When you called me and said, hey, be on my show, What'd I say?

Steve: Yeah. And how long did it take me to say yes? Not very long.

Chris: Yeah. So, I mean, I don't I've gone title companies. I mean, I did, foreclosure lunch and learns for Realty Executives, I think, every month for three or four years.

Steve: Oh, really?

Chris: I just I would cycle their offices, their 16th Street office, their Tempe office. You know? I did, you know, I think I don't know how many foreclosure classes I gave for Fidelity National Title. Right. It's just but you get in front of fifty, sixty people

Steve: Mhmm. And you gotta build your network.

Chris: And I don't I mean, everybody these days builds it all on social media.

Steve: Right. I built it actually by getting cards. So consistency

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: And staying in front of people.

Chris: All the time.

Steve: So, you talked about, the the courses. So that's actually one of my questions. How you intentionally stay in front of people? Because I heard a great story about you. Right?

We we talked about it earlier. So how do you consistently stay in

Chris: front of people? You know, I just I try to follow-up. I'm a busy guy.

Steve: Mhmm. But

Chris: I try to answer text messages. Email is probably my weakest link. But Yeah. You know, and like I said, I'm in front of people right now on your show. I'm in front of and I hit every happy hour that I get invited to.

Yeah. And you and I'm not really a talkative person. If you go see me in a happy hour, I sit in the corner. But it's like, who's the tall guy? Right?

Right.

Steve: So But you're there.

Chris: Yeah. I'm there.

Steve: You're available. And then, you know, we first met through, a Fidelity mastermind.

Chris: Right.

Steve: It's been disbanded since. But that was, you know, a cool opportunity because I was like, oh, hey. That's Chris. That's that's the guy that sends out those emails with those discount properties. Right.

Right? So definitely, you're you're you're putting yourself out there, making yourself available. So what does your organization look like today?

Chris: We still run a bid service.

Steve: Oh, you're still doing bid services? Yeah.

Chris: We still do bid service in 40 counties. Yeah. Pinal, Maricopa, Yavapai, and, Pima. Mhmm. So we still do that.

Obviously, there's not a lot of volume, but, Yeah. Still opportunities. And, you know, we're there. We're staying in front of that group of people. I, we still wholesale, and then, you know, we do our hard money.

But literally, it's, two assistants, a bookkeeper, couple bidders, and a driver Yeah. And me and my partners. And so it's my sister's my partner on paper, but Tim and Kim Ludd are they're married been married for twenty five years or twenty six years. They have, like, four kids. Okay.

Steve: You know? So So then going back to the auction, let's say I buy a property at the courthouse steps. You know, like, Chris, I like this property. I wanna bid on it. Then, obviously, you'll do the hard money loan on that on

Chris: us as well. So we do the hard money for the auctions and the, you know, all the wholesale properties.

Steve: Okay. Cool. So that's like a one stop shop. Right. I don't really need much else than that.

I guess I need the 10,000 to put down.

Chris: Yeah. So we did the bid service, and we do we bid with our own money, so you don't have to bid with you don't need the 10,000. Okay.

Steve: Well, that's good. That's good. Alright. So we talked about, you know, you're you're wholesaling. How many properties are you wholesale a month right now?

Probably 20. I don't know. 20? Yeah. Okay.

And how do you source your deals today?

Chris: We actually we're we got our in house, so we do some cold calling and some letters.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And then, you know, like you heard the story, like, I could follow-up with just the smaller wholesalers. Yeah. I get on Monday, Wednesday. I just say, hey. You got anything new?

Hey.

Steve: You got anything new? I literally sit down there. I go to a breakfast place for coffee and I just start texting people. Yeah. That's that's a great system.

So who are you calling or mailing to?

Chris: No. We do it all. We hit the foreclosure list. We hit the, probate list. We hit everybody that bought prior to 2000.

You know? Yeah. I mean, same list everybody else are hitting.

Steve: Yeah. Pretty much. That's the same list I'm hitting. That's for sure. So, again, going back to my story earlier about Azria.

So I went to Azria and, like, man, these guys are charging 18%. How do they get away with it? This is this is, you know, feels like murder. Right? Yeah.

But at the on the flip side of that, I was like, boy, I would love to be in position to be able to lend 18% someday. So You missed that boat. I did miss that boat. Eighteen's eighteen's gonna be very tough today.

Chris: I I do know some lenders that are 18, but they're getting zero down. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So do you feel I mean, I I guess your actions probably speak already answered this question. But do you feel hard money is still where it's at?

Chris: You know, it's a the margins are obviously a lot thinner. I think, lending in other states, you got a better opportunity, like you said, about North Carolina, fourteen and two points. I mean, if that rolls every six months, you're really it's like 18 plus. Right. Right?

Yeah. Because two points will turn into four points in a six month time frame rate. Yep. So but, you know, what I did learn, from my o seven downturn is we got hurt more in the other areas that we were lending in and doing business in than we did in Phoenix, even though sometimes Phoenix took the hardest hit. Right.

But we understood it. We lent better at it. So I I'm just staying here.

Steve: Why do you think you took a bigger punch in the gut outside of Arizona?

Chris: Because we're using salespeople that may maybe didn't understand the market as well as we understand the Phoenix market.

Steve: Okay. And so let's say let's just say today, you know what, Chris? I like what you're doing. I'm gonna compete against you. I wanna become a hard money lender.

What are the things I need to do?

Chris: Well, you need to get some cash. Right? So find a guy with a big giant checkbook and make sure he trusts you. Yeah. You know, we roughly have $30,000,000, and it's probably made up of about five to six people that trust me.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: You know, in the downturn, you know, I went I lost all that money and went negative about a million and a half. I spent from o eight till about 2015 paying all my friends and family back that million and a half. Didn't file bankruptcy. Didn't pay them a dime worth of interest, but I paid them all back.

Steve: So That's awesome.

Chris: I got a lot of people that'll give me their checkbook. So but so, you know, that's the first step. And then, you know, if you can go from there and, you know, get bank lines and all that kinda stuff because they're actually coming back, but they wanna see, you know, years in the business and all that fun stuff.

Steve: Yeah. It makes sense. They want us to do this. Some some they wanna do some due diligence.

Chris: Right.

Steve: Okay. So, I I saw a presentation only, say, a year and a half, maybe even two years ago now, you and Andy. And you guys had this program you guys are rolling out, REI Ground School. Yeah. Tell me about that.

Chris: So, it's just basically a local educator. Obviously, we got plenty of national educators. Yeah. A lot of them just live here. They all live here in Phoenix.

Steve: Live in Phoenix, Exhaustale.

Chris: Yeah. So, we went with, more of a a local program, because Andy and I both have been born and raised in real estate in this market. So it's more of a hands on training for guys that wanna learn the business from not a national educator, more of a, you know, a guy in Phoenix that understands the market. So, it went really well, but, you know, all the big guys come in, fortune builders and Mhmm. You know, and they spend just bunches and bunches of money to get

Steve: I can't get on Facebook or Instagram without seeing an ad

Chris: Right. Former guru. Yeah. Right? I mean and they're here every week.

And, I mean, between I think there's, you know, five to six big companies.

Steve: Oh, there's Fortune Builders. Builders. I don't even know who's buying that one. Yeah. There's Cody.

Yep. There's Dean. Yep. Kiyosaki. Yeah.

This is nuts over here.

Chris: Yeah. And you and they're here every week, and you you go up against their Fortune Builders has got, like, a $400,000,000 spend

Steve: Mhmm. On

Chris: Facebook. Wow. My spend was, like, 40,000. They're spending or not. Sorry.

Yeah. 40,000. They're spending or 40,000,000 or 4,000,000, I think, is their budget. Like, it's ridiculous. Right.

You know? And so, you know, it was a it was a great opportunity. Actually, you know, it was fun to actually give back and and educate people and see them make money.

Steve: Right.

Chris: We had some students absolutely crush it.

Steve: Just That's awesome.

Chris: Crush it like this one guy made he's 62, and he made, like, $200 in six months.

Steve: That's awesome.

Chris: So watching that was was pretty fun. And, but just the economics of it, just like wholesaling, hard money, everybody's an educator now. Winded down? We are gonna do another class in January, but we've gone to a different marketing strategy, that I'm not gonna disclose. But But Okay.

Because I think it's a little different. It won't cost us as much money to do, so therefore, we can do it. We don't have to have this huge giant venue. We can still give back to the people that are really interested, but don't have to put, you know when you have when you spent $40,000 marketing in a hotel venue and then you got your salespeople, I

Steve: mean, you gotta break a $100 to even make money. And Yeah.

Chris: That doesn't seem fun. And I I wanna get back to where it's fun and just people that wanna learn about the Phoenix market and how to be a 62 year old guy and make $200 in six months. I want that guy. Right. I don't wanna compete with all these, you know, big guys.

Steve: Oh, no. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's that's one of the things that, you know, I would love one day to be able to to be able to do that. But, man, there are so many people doing it. And it's hard for a new wholesaler to know who's real and who's not.

Right. I mean How can they?

Chris: Yeah. I mean, you go to, I actually am buddies with a coach on the phone. And he's he's a wholesaler in town, but, I mean, they go to these mass meetings

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And they pay their money. And they're talking to somebody across the country that's getting paid, whatever, $70.75 bucks an hour to teach them how to wholesale. You know, all the students that joined, my program got a Thursday morning meeting

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: With me from nine to 10:00. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. What'd you do last week?

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Why didn't you do it? You know? Right.

Steve: Don't make excuses. Personal interaction. Yeah. And it's custom for who you're working with. Yeah.

It's not just a whole room full of people. Okay. So looking at your profile, you know, we do have we have to do a research. And I would say it looks like you're a family man. Right?

Yeah. So, Tell me about that.

Chris: I got three kids, pretty much all in college. So they they moved on. But, definitely growing the business with, three kids. I, unfortunately, you know, divorce happens and, had, three kids all in sports. So I basically was a chauffeur.

I'm sure plenty of people know what that's like. You just drive here, drive there, drive there.

Steve: Right.

Chris: But, yeah, I just built a business and and raised kids. Didn't do much dating at all for a long time. Just, just focused on them. But it was it was great. My son son played football and basketball.

My two girls played volleyball. I gotta watch sports all the time.

Steve: So how did you balance work and family? Because that's the struggle we all have in real estate. Right? And you're doing massive volume. You weren't just Joe Blow wholesaler.

Like, you're, in many people's eyes, the guy in Phoenix.

Chris: Well, texting has definitely helped. Right? Because that's you can do it from anywhere. But, no. I just I'd go into the office.

I'd do my foreclosure stuff back, you know. I and I'd show for my kids. I picked my kids up for they went to Christian school, so no bus system. Mhmm. Every morning at 7AM, took them to Northwest Christian.

They both went now I went through Northwest Christian. And then, you know, did my foreclosure stuff, and I was drove my houses, you know, wholesale. And then I was back by their neck of the woods at, like, 04:00

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Going to football practice or volleyball practice or basketball practice. And that's that was the program for a long, long time.

Steve: So it sounds like the mobile office on your phone

Chris: is the key.

Steve: Yeah. But you don't have to take many phone calls. You don't have to

Chris: Obviously, most of us text way more than we take calls. Right? But, yeah, it's few calls. I text all the time. Obviously, you know, know, the the laptops or the services of iPads obviously help a lot too.

Then that's, you know that lets me do real estate from anywhere. So that's what's awesome.

Steve: Okay. And then I I see lots of pictures of you in the water. Alright. Boating. I don't know which boat is yours, which one's not yours, but I

Chris: see lots of boats. So let's talk about that. So, yeah. I've been boating for a long time. I'm a licensed captain.

I'm also a licensed pilot. But, my boat is in The Bahamas. Okay. Well, that's awesome.

Steve: Yeah. So we need to vacation together.

Chris: Yeah. Anytime. I'm actually going to spend, one of my buck bucket list items. I'm gonna spend, seven days on a boat in Greece, a week from today.

Steve: Oh, that's awesome. Very cool.

Chris: I'm gonna do the islands of Corfu and the some southern islands about there. But, yeah, I try to get on a boat some sometime, like, four to six weeks a year. And I'm I'm always available. You can still text me. You can still email me.

I'll answer. But, I mean, that's why I do real estate. Right? Right. I'm not gonna go buy an expensive car.

For me, it's all about life experiences. It's not about, like, tangible things. So

Steve: So you said four to six weeks. So it means four times four to six times a year or four to six total weeks, like

Chris: Four to six times a year. I try to get to. So I've been to The Bahamas three times this year. I've been to Key West. I'm gonna go to Greece.

I got the BVI set up for November.

Steve: What's the BVI?

Chris: Bridgebridge And Islands.

Steve: Ah, gotcha. I'm not a well traveled person, so that's cool. It's good to know. Good to know friends with boats too, I think they say. But ownership's not so great, but having friends with boats That's yeah.

Is awesome.

Chris: Yeah. Let me deal with it. Right?

Steve: Okay. So we already talked about nurturing. So what are some CRM tools or systems that you could not live without in your business?

Chris: So I I'm a dinosaur. Right? I'm still just using, like, eye contact to send out the the email blast. I don't

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: I don't even have a text blast. I don't you know, I'm actually working on setting it up. I I'll have one probably in the next thirty days. But literally, finding deals and, you know, is the network

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Of agents that I deal with and literally texting the wholesalers over coffee two or three times a week. Yeah. And I literally just use the same phrase so I can search through my phone and just pull up the list and start texting them.

Steve: That's awesome. Okay. Any interesting war stories?

Chris: Interesting war stories. Yeah. I mean, there's I mean, which what

Steve: kind are you looking for? Nightmare scenarios. I mean, not like the tri level, but far worse.

Chris: Far worse. Obviously, a post sale b k is no fun.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: I did, bought a house at auction. And so they they were trying to save it, so they BK'd after the house was paid for. So now you gotta get now you gotta get the stay released on the BK just before you can start the eviction. Worst thing that

Steve: can happen to you at a trustee sale. So they filed a BK to stop the foreclosure. But they but they'd already

Chris: paid the window. We missed the window, and we'd already paid for it.

Steve: Okay.

Chris: So that doesn't happen very often. A hard money story that's, you know, granddaughter forged grandma's signature on a hard money loan that we did. That took about so house is sold to another wholesaler. You know, she's evicting grandma. Grandma didn't sell the house.

We lent the money on it. So now we're tied up on Wow. Yeah.

Steve: So she sold her grandma this house Right. Without talking to grandma. So that was a So also should've covered that. Yeah. But it, doesn't cover the interest.

Doesn't cover the interest. Right.

Chris: So if you're a hard money lender and you're paying your buddy, one of your five to six guys that has money with you and you want his money back

Steve: Right. You pay him. Right? Of course. Yeah.

You find a way to pay. So, you know, I forgot to ask this earlier. So, you got five to six guys. You know, they're pulling their funds together. Did you create a syndication to make that happen?

Chris: It's all individual deeds of trust.

Steve: All individual deeds of trust. Yeah.

Chris: So I do a credit facility Mhmm. Document which says, hey. You're gonna lend me $2,000,000. And then I I assign individual deeds of trust Mhmm. To approximately that number.

I mean, I might actually have $2,050,000 assigned to you Mhmm. Even though you only have $2,000,000 with

Steve: me. Alright.

Chris: But, yeah, it's all individual. I could have done a syndication, but there's been some bad syndications that have happened in this town.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. A buddy of mine basically said that, yeah, you wanna end up on American Greed, start a syndication.

Chris: Yeah. So, I've, in the downturn, you know, it's you know, I've had some buddies lose a decent amount of money in syndications. I've had other people that I know lose some money in syndications. And so I this is a way for me to raise money and say, you don't have to worry about that. I'm gonna assign you an individual deeds of trust.

If I get hit by a truck tomorrow, you know, I'm a licensed mortgage banker, so that's a difference. So just a little education. As a licensed mortgage banker,

Steve: you're allowed to, obviously, take fees like you are a broker. Mhmm. But as a

Chris: banker, you're allowed to take a spread.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: As a broker, you're not allowed to take a spread.

Steve: Oh, okay.

Chris: And then if you talk and if you're not licensed at all and you're taking a spread, then you're actually take you're basically taking a fraction of a note that isn't your note. Mhmm. So it's technically a securities violation.

Steve: So Yeah. Jail time is what I'm hearing.

Chris: So that's just kinda the breakdown. So being a banker, you're allowed to take a spread and take fees, and that's why we're a licensed mortgage banker.

Steve: So walk me through this because everyone sells syndication as a great resource. You know, you go to one of these real estate seminars, and they're like, oh, you gotta start syndication. You just need 30 k to get started. Blah blah blah. But everyone I've talked to in the real world says it's a nightmare.

Why is it so bad compared to what they sell you at the seminars? Well, the $30 for

Chris: the syndication is just to get basically the lawyer's fees done. Right? Right. And now you gotta go raise the money. Mhmm.

Typically, they want you to have some of your own money in the in the syndication, but then you gotta go go raise it. And, I mean, it's way easier now than it used to be because of crowdfunding. Right? Right. And you can actually do, and I'm not a securities attorney at all.

So Right. But you just gotta go raise some money. Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And you can actually do a little email blast now saying, hey. I'm looking to raise money. That's actually with the new crowdfunding laws allowed where Oh,

Steve: that's allowed now?

Chris: Yeah. That's allowed now.

Steve: Wow. Okay.

Chris: Before, you actually had to have a relationship and stuff like that. So, it's a little easier, now, but, you know, it's not something that I've ever wanted to do Mhmm. Just because it's kind of my selling tool. Like, you have your portfolio. It's yours.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: If something goes bad with my company, something goes bad with me, here it is. Right. You're gonna

Steve: need an auditor to come down and

Chris: break it up. Here's your 20 loans. You know, you had $2,000,000 with me. Maybe it's only, you know, 1,980,000.00. But it's it's all there.

You own it. I assigned it to you. Right. It's more paperwork than, obviously, a guy with, you know, a PPM or a syndication, but I don't know. All the guys that give me money like it.

So

Steve: Yeah. And I think it's a lot cleaner if there's ever a situation, like you said, anything happens to Chris. Chris gets hit by a bus. Right. Paperwork's there.

You don't need a receiver to come through Nope. Break it all up. And then just so you guys know, the ones that are listening, a receivership or not receivership, syndication is when a bunch bunch of people put put money together to create a securities fund. A lot of if you go to these real estate seminars, a lot of guys promote this, but, you know, they're also making money Right. When they sell it.

Chris: Generally, they're the attorney. Right? Right. They want the $30 Yeah. Put it together for you.

Steve: Sounds really sexy. Yeah. Alright. So Pace has a question. What do you see as the future of wholesaling?

Chris: I mean, do you

Steve: see, like, in three years, five years, things are gonna be the same way they are

Chris: they are Oh, that's gonna be even more competitive. Right? I mean, the younger kids are just getting better and smarter. Right? Yeah.

I'm a dinosaur. But I just I just rely on the network and, you know, I'm doing some things to change that. But Right. You know, this is probably competitive market there is. I mean, if you look at so when I go to Collective Genius, and look at the numbers from all the other big wholesalers throughout the country, I think the last time I did a letter, the response rate was, like, point 0015%.

I mean I

Steve: hear it's atrocious.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, not even a fifteenth of a percent. Right. And where, you know, a lot of guys in Collective Genius are like, oh, yeah. The yellow letters are 2.22.8%.

Steve: And I'm like, man, to be in your market. Right.

Chris: So it's just gonna be more and more competitive. It always seems like this is the breeding ground for every technology piece. I mean, look, you got Opendoor, Offerpad. Mhmm. You know, they just Zillow.

Right. They just keep coming. Now you got the what's the new $3,000 listing service that just came in from Utah? They just showed up, like and they got billboards. It's a

Steve: couple 1,500, not 3,000.

Chris: Oh, is it 1,500?

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: I just saw their billboard. I don't even remember their name. But

Steve: Yeah. So, and I think the I can't remember. Someone shared with me. It was a Sean Terry, you know, webinar. And he was going through his numbers like you were talking about.

He's like, well, you know, if we do a 100 of this, we're gonna get 20 of this, blah blah blah. And we walk into the house, and we offer them this, and they beat us up to this. And he was saying, like, you know, we try to get to, like, 80¢ on a dollar. And, like, the people on the on on the webinar were, like, laughing. And you could hear them laughing.

Like, what do you mean 80¢ on a dollar? Right. Right? They're like, we give him, like, $55.60 cents on a dollar.

Chris: Yeah. But, you know, good thing about Sean, he's got a big enough network that he can sell that. Right? Right. So, I mean, his I'm sure his network's bigger than mine.

Steve: So,

Chris: yeah, it's just it's just market. Right?

Steve: Right. So it's just crazy, crazy market. Who again, Pace Mor being another great question. Who do you look up to?

Chris: Who do I look up to? You know, I, I kinda had some guys that looked up into this industry, but they're they're all gone. I hate to say that. I'm I'm like the old guy. You know, I actually look secretly, like, look at some of the younger guys and all the stuff they do and, like, man, I need a guy to get on

Steve: my game or I need to

Chris: get out. So, all the technology that's coming on board, that I mean, I don't even have a text box for my wholesale. That's that should I should be shot by now. Right? So, it's funny that I'm actually sometimes looking up not I'm looking at younger kids, you know, doing doing my business better and, needing to go that I need to I need to get better at it.

I did close 21 house package in August. So luckily luckily, the reputation helps.

Steve: Right.

Chris: But,

Steve: So they can change the technology. And I'm I'm not saying that's not a we're not gonna discount that. Obviously, they can, you know, use different tools, whatever, but they still have their relationship and their reputation. Right?

Chris: Right. Yeah. So That's where

Steve: you got a huge leg up.

Chris: Yeah. And I and I continue to, you know, I was at, a networking event. You know, there was a VIP networking event. I got an invitation.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: Right? And I don't ever turn down an invitation. I mean, I think it was on a Monday, Tuesday night. There I am, and I, you know, I actually, you know, I ran into some old friends. And, I mean, I I was there at five, and I was still there at ten or 10:30, you know, working through that because, you know, you run into people should see how many deals I make from the Phoenix Open because you run into people you haven't seen in a

Steve: year. Really?

Chris: You re you reconnect with them, and then they're back on the text message like, hey. What do you got? So So

Steve: I think in addition to boating with you, I need to hang out with you at the open as well.

Chris: Gotta go to the open.

Steve: Alright. And then, Gustavo Placeras wants to know, who who do you look at as your mentor? You

Chris: know, I don't I don't know. Or are

Steve: you in any coaching programs?

Chris: You know, I, I just belong to Collective Genius. Mhmm. It's weird because, you know, I've only been in Collective Genius for two or three years. There are a couple monsters out there. Yeah.

Brad Chandler. I don't know if anybody knows who he is. He's a monster. He's a machine. Mhmm.

I kinda gave up, like, the, you know, the big dreams of, you know, having, you know, the big the Ferrari or the Lamborghini or any of that stuff. That's that's not me. I drive an f one fifty.

Steve: Really?

Chris: Yeah. I drive a truck. Yeah. And, you know, I just, you know, good family guys I look up to, people in the community, people that are giving back. Mhmm.

Those are guys I look up to because they're, you know, they're they're working hard and they're doing more for the community. Okay.

Steve: Cool. Brad Pickett wants to know about your story about your boat sinking. Of course, he does. K. And then, Pace says that he's happy to show you how to do a text blast if you'll take him to Bahamas with you.

Chris: So the boat story. I literally saw at a boat in The Bahamas is a private boat, cruising across. I needed to get some maintenance. I was taking it to Fort Lauderdale. I did about 80 miles on a Tuesday, with another guy in the business.

His name is, Steve Peterson. Some of you guys may know or may not know him. Mhmm. And we stopped at the West End. And then, we're driving from the West End to our Fort Lauderdale.

We're 21 miles off the coast of The Bahamas. We're cruising at eight and a half knots. And I looked down doing eight and a half knots. Well, my boat should do nine and a half knots. Mhmm.

And I'm just like, oh, something's wrong. So I run downstairs. It has a high water alarm. Next thing I know. But over the diesels, you can't hear it.

So and open up the engine hatch. It's knee high in water. So run upstairs, shut down the engine that's taken on the water. Now no more water's coming in. All three bilge pumps are running.

I went that Wednesday because it was supposed to be glass out there. I was supposed to go on Saturday, but it called for, you know, six to eight foot seas. Mhmm. Well, there was 30 knots of wind out of the east. I'm in a boat that has a bunch of water in it and it's not floating right.

And 30 knots of wind in the ocean can create swells over time. Yeah. So from time of problem to getting picked up out of a dinghy by another fishing boat, coast guard helicopter over top was forty two

Steve: minutes. It's not horrible.

Chris: So needless to say, I got a trip back to The Bahamas. The guy picked us up, said, hey. We're going back to Bahamas. It's not like someone picks you up in the middle of the ocean. You get a choice of where you're going.

Right? Right. So, he took us back to The Bahamas. I even forgot my flip flops. Everything went down with the boat.

I I'm in trunks and a a tank top and no shoes. And, found some size eight was best I I could find. Wearing some size eight

Steve: and flew back home. Insurance cover at all?

Chris: Yeah. After about, three depositions for me, I think a couple for Steve, and about eight months or nine months, I finally got got my check. Wow. So I

Steve: bet you're not using that insurance company again.

Chris: I just think they think that we went out to the middle of the ocean to get some insurance money. I'm like, really?

Steve: Do you think I wanna go out in the middle

Chris: of the ocean and risk a bunch of lives for some insurance money? But, yeah, just it

Steve: was a pain floor deal, but, I guess, you know, if you have a safety

Chris: plan, safety plan, at least it's nice to know it works.

Steve: Yeah. For sure. Brian's appless wants to know when you guys are going golfing again.

Chris: Let's go golfing. Alright. I'm not very good as he knows.

Steve: Well so, Brian, Chris, yeah. Chris is anytime. So, Pace wants to know, besides wholesaling, what are your other long term investment strategies?

Chris: Obviously, everybody does rentals. Are they a lot of people who jumped into rentals? Right? Mhmm. I think, obviously, rentals probably don't pencil in Phoenix as well as they do probably in other markets now.

Right. You know, my investment strategy has always been, you know, I'm taking a spread on hard money. You know, I'm paying, you know, like I said, I don't I don't have cheap money. I'm paying, you know, private guys. So they want 10.

I'm lending at 12 or 14, and I'm, you know, making my spread there. So, you know, I've dabbled outside of real estate a little bit

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And I don't seem to do as well. So I've just really kinda stayed focused on what I know.

Steve: Do you try the, you know, the BRRRR model? Was it buy, repair, rehab? Was it buy, rehab, refinance, that camera? Remember. But, you know, you buy, you cash out, use that money, buy another one.

Or do you have, you know, buy and hold, like, every three that I wholesale, buy a property, any of those things?

Chris: I don't. I really just focus on the hard money. And I'm I'm a wholesaler at heart. I don't rehab anything. If I the only time I'm rehabbing and listing is because I can't wholesale it.

You know? Obviously, like I said, on my commitments to buy Mhmm.

Steve: You

Chris: know, I I told grandma I'm buying her house. I can't leave grandma high and dry. So if I don't wholesale it, I keep it. And every now and then, I'm like, you know, I'm trying to wholesale it, and I don't make as much as I would. But I'm even to the point, like, if it's a 2 or $3 loss, I'll wholesale it.

Steve: I'll just

Chris: move it.

Steve: You know? Just be done just be done with it.

Chris: Yeah. That's my and, you know, even that one I lost 10 or $11 on, I just move it. Yeah.

Steve: So I'm I'm a wholesaler. But every now and then, I'm like,

Chris: do I lose 7 on this one? No. I saw obviously, I bought it for that price. So I saw the vision there Mhmm. That maybe everybody else can't see.

So

Steve: I'll

Chris: give it a shot.

Steve: And then do you use any of your own capital when you lend or you always use

Chris: No. Some of it's mine. But, mostly, it's other people's. My my current money is in building spec homes in Paradise Valley. Mhmm.

But I got, two going currently, and that'll probably be my last two just because why be in a $2,100,000 house when there's little uncertainty. Right? So

Steve: Yeah. Well, talk about that little uncertainty. What what uncertainty are you sensing?

Chris: Well, you've seen, obviously, there's been some articles about some of the super hot markets, Seattle, Portland, California

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: All taken, all all slowing down. I think if any wholesaler didn't say they saw a blip in June and July

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: They'd be

Steve: I'm

Chris: not telling you the truth because

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: Definitely I mean, maybe they didn't see it as much as I did, but it was tough to wholesale a house in June and July. Now August has been better. You know, the start of September has been better.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And then you talk to you know, I always go to people that understand the business, so I just call title companies. Right?

Steve: Right. Oh, they see it. They know

Chris: it. So I called a couple title officers and, they're like, in June and July, I closed 90% of my book. That was their response. And I'm and I'm not entitled, so I didn't know what that meant.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: But, I'm like, explain that to me. Well, that means they closed, you know, their June and July escrows, but they didn't have any opens. So they didn't have any other pipeline coming back in. So that was kinda telling. I've reached back out to them since, and things seem back to normal.

But, obviously, it's it's a cycle. Sooner or later, it changes. You know, stock markets had a ten, eleven year run. Right? Real estate's going on a ten year run.

You know, what's nice about Arizona market now is everybody has equity. Right? The last time, nobody had equity. Mhmm. You go to b of a and, hey.

I want a 105% on my house. Sign right here. Wait your three day right of rescission, and you got a high 105% of your house. With not a lot of people giving seconds, everybody has equity. So but if you if a market slows, because of uncertainty Mhmm.

All it takes is a $300,000 house and having a comp, but you have a guy that bought in 2010 for a 150 on that $300,000 house, and he wants to drop to $2.70 because he wants to move.

Steve: Only handful of those. That's all it takes.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So what was I gonna ask? Dang it. Oh, you you were mentioning that a lot of wholesalers noticed a blip. It was harder to wholesale in June and July.

When you say it was harder, was it harder to acquire or harder to move?

Chris: There was just nobody buying or

Steve: Right.

Chris: Not as many people buying. Definitely. So, you know, I,

Steve: But is that is that a bad sign? I look at that as a good sign. No?

Chris: Yeah. It's it was, you know,

Steve: you're not Not as many motivated homeowners.

Chris: Yeah. Well, I was, you know, trying to keep 20 a month. You gotta keep buying. Right? It's a wholesale,

Steve: I guess, is bad. Yeah. But for a market

Chris: Yeah. So I had bought I had my schedule, and I thought I was gonna have a great June.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And, you know, I've committed to buy some. I think I I definitely from one guy that I buy from, I lost $21,000 just because I've committed to buy and I sold them. And they're just the buyers are gone, but I've committed to pay for it. So, you know, you know but I mean, you know, the the real estate market as a whole is great. I mean, I think last time I checked, there's 16,000 active listings, and that's active.

So that's mobile, they're everything, right, in MLS. An even market, not a buyer's market, not a seller's market. It's, like, 32,000. So you're you're half inventory of, like, a flat market. So, builders, you know, used to pump out 60,000 permits a year.

I think they're they're, like, twenty, twenty one, something like that right now. So, obviously, you know, our market's very healthy. Just, you know, obviously, uncertainty and just kind there's always the herd mentality. Right? Yeah.

As people kinda start going that way, the masses follow. Well, it's part of

Steve: that self fulfilling prophecy too. Right? If everyone says the sky is falling, the sky is gonna

Chris: fall. Right.

Steve: Right? In our at least in our business. So then Pace wants to know if you got guys lending to you at ten, is that ten all the time or only ten when that's drawn?

Chris: Depends on what they sign up for. Some people like to keep their cash. You know, maybe it's a guy I got one guy a couple guys that are apartment guys. Right? And they don't wanna commit if I if you if it's ten all the time, I make you say, I want a year, eighteen month, two year commitment.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: If you just wanna be liquid, then it's kinda as you have money type of deal. So I got a couple guys that are apartment guys, and and they don't know when their next opportunity is to grab an apartment. And, you know, they do apartments in other states too. So they put money in, and then as it pays off, they just kinda balance their sheet. Whereas other guys are like, here.

I want you to take this 5,000,000 and just keep it just send me the check and tell me if there's a problem.

Steve: Okay. Nice. So Ernie Paz wants to know, have you had any partnerships go south?

Chris: You know, I've only been in two partnerships I mean, that one broke up because of the, you know, two south 2007 downturn. Mhmm. We were actually under contract for $44,000,000 to sell our company. And next thing you know, downturn happens. Citibank, who's buying us, cancels.

Oh. And when there's no money left, it's not hard to say, oh, we've been in business for five or six years. Do I still like you? Yeah. And we just all just went our own ways.

There was nothing I mean, there was just like, hey. Let's go try something new. So, you know, my partners are now family.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: They can't Alright. So Yeah. And then the other partnership? That's that's the only two. One was one was done in the downturn, and then, you know, I've been I've been partners with, Kim and Tim, my family, since then.

Steve: Okay. And let's see. So hey. You know, we were we were betting on this earlier. Then I was gonna say that you were really good looking.

Got a comment. Gurbank wants to know why you're so handsome.

Chris: It's the same bald head as he is.

Steve: Let's see. Anything else? So Gus wants to know if you're nationwide or local. We already talked about your local. Yeah.

Chris: I'm just a local guy.

Steve: Alright. So, what is your biggest struggle

Chris: right now? Obviously, everybody's biggest struggle is finding deals. Right? So, you know, that's why you said the guy, Chris will text me every week or every other week. You know, he's like it's like clockwork.

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: So I, you know, just keep going after it just like everybody else does. I don't have the technology that some of the younger guys do, but I just use the network and I keep and I keep trying to expand the network. So

Steve: Okay. And what is your superpower?

Chris: Oh, superpower. I do like all the Marvel movies, though.

Steve: They're pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I enjoy all of them too. And then you got the DC ones.

They're not quite same level. What lesson would you wanna teach today's young real estate entrepreneurs?

Chris: You know, it's just kinda you just can't give up. Like, I mean, it can't be easy in this market being as competitive as it is. Mhmm. But I don't know. You just can't give up.

You can't can't stop trying. I mean, I think I attended my first trustee sale, in late September or maybe early October. I bought my first trustee sale in December. That means I went down there every single day for three months

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: And didn't buy a house. So Yeah. But but I didn't buy a house. First house I bought was 11611 North Thunderbird Road. I still know the address.

Sun City.

Steve: I bought an age restricted property. So you put your dad on title? What'd you do about that?

Chris: No. I just I borrowed hard money at 18% and paid a thousand dollar fee. You know? Yeah. I started this business with a home equity line of credit of $60.

Wow. No money. Just a home equity line of credit. So Were

Steve: you did you feel like you experienced the the the good old boys network starting in 1999?

Chris: Oh, yeah. Totally. There's a good old boy network for sure. You should have seen, I mean, the games people played back then.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So So talk about that. Because we always heard about the good old boys network, but I never got to experiencing. So what what was Oh, there's what was that like?

Chris: I was there are a couple guys that controlled this entire market. And, you know, back then, to buy a house at trustee sale was a thousand dollars cash. Mhmm. We're all all walking around with, you know, $70,000 in our pocket. But, you know, guys that are buying 10 to 15 houses a day to lose a thousand dollar thousand bucks cash to keep a guy like me out of it, that's nothing because they're gonna wholesale 10 to 15,000 or 10 to 15 houses at, you know, 3 to $4.

Steve: Yeah. So they would bid up and then not buy just to keep you out of it. So here's so you're new at the trustee sale. Right?

Chris: And there's three or four of them at the trustee sale. Mhmm. I still think there are three or four of them because they didn't trust each other, but that's just my own opinion. But there's three or four of them at the trustee sale. And house opens at a $100.

Right? Yeah. Someone bids a 101,000, then you bid a 102,000, then someone else jumps in and bids you to a 150,000. He doesn't pay his thousand bucks. You're at $1.49 9.

It's your first sale. You're anxious. You look at it. Trustee calls you back and says, you want the house? You're like, got a little aggressive there.

It's my first time, you know. You don't buy it. Who do you think gets it? The guy that bid a 100,000 and a $100 Oh. Goes back to them for $49,000 less.

Oh. Pretty good game. Yeah. I mean, when it's only a thousand dollars cash, you can play all kinds games. Right?

Especially if, you know, there's definitely some stuff. I mean Well, I know they bid

Steve: each other up or bid you up to keep you out. Yeah. It was But I didn't I didn't I didn't really understand the dynamic of that. So it's very interesting, like, a history lesson. Right?

Yeah. And I I've I've talked to a couple of guys saying, you know, hey. I'm thinking about expanding down to Tucson. And I said, good luck down there. There's good old boys network down there.

So I don't know what that means. Surprised it still exists. But

Chris: Well, obviously, you know, you got guys that go to the auction every day and you're new, and they make deals, or they're they're they're making deals frequently.

Steve: Mhmm. You

Chris: know, obviously, that's why the $10,000 bid check came in

Steve: to keep Oh, is that the reason what it was?

Chris: Yeah. To keep that little oh, I mean, you can lose a thousand dollars, no big deal. You lose $10,000, a bigger deal. Right? So, you got guys buying 10 to 15 houses a day.

They're not worried about a thousand dollars to keep you out

Steve: of the auction. Right. Okay. And what is the greatest you lesson you've learned in your real estate career?

Chris: Probably never saw on a personal guarantee. Yeah.

Steve: I mean Got it. You know Not not the first person on the show to say that.

Chris: Yeah. So, obviously, I I didn't have a personal guarantee, you know. And I didn't have a personal guarantee with some of the friends and family, but I'm I'm friends and family.

Steve: It's friends and family. Right. That's a guarantee.

Chris: Yeah. So

Steve: Yeah. Okay. What was your favorite best or most interesting failure?

Chris: I mean, obviously, when you lose 4 and a half million bucks or you know, that's, I mean, that's the worst one you can have. I mean, nothing nothing has happened that bad since then.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: You know, I've probably lost

Steve: I

Chris: lost my biggest loss is $26,000 to date since the 2007. And that was a a fraud based house. So, I mean, I couldn't do anything about that.

Steve: No. You can't. That's the grand granddaughter one? Yeah. Crazy.

So is there a book that you've given more than any other?

Chris: This is one of those questions that's really bad for me. I am so I was successful, because I'm a numbers guy. Yeah. I'm I was I graduated Grand Canyon with a double major in math computer science.

Steve: Okay.

Chris: It took me three times to pass my English entrance exam in the Grand Canyon to give you an idea how much I read. Right. So I'm a numbers guy. I'm a math guy. I do not read books.

Steve: Okay. That's fair enough. So and is there anything that keeps you up at night?

Chris: Yeah. I mean, you know, obviously, we all have our stresses when, things go bad. Mhmm. It it can be the simplest one that just, like, I'm thinking about. It might be a

Steve: house that I'm trying to wholesale and, I thought I thought

Chris: it was a home run, so I I committed to it and it's not selling. I don't like no one likes mistakes. Right? Right. So the smallest mistake, even if it's only, like, you know, a $10,000 loss, it's still just it's bins, you know.

I'm like, oh, I gotta gotta face my partners on this one. And I don't obviously, no one likes to be not successful.

Steve: Yeah. Well, $10,000 mistake is still a pretty serious mistake.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, but if you're doing 20 houses a month, you know, it's I mean, it's It washes out.

Steve: Yeah. Law of averages. Okay. So Max Amentis wants to know, what keeps you going on the wholesaling side?

Chris: You know, what else am I gonna do? I can spend four to six weeks a year on a boat. And probably my biggest complaint from all my friends is I'm always on my phone texting. Yeah. You know, like, Chris, be be here.

Yeah. I'm working. I don't know when the next tech that's gonna come across is gonna make me 5 to $7.

Steve: So

Chris: but, three kids in college, you know, that's not cheap. No? No. So, obviously and and the college doesn't stop. You should the tech the tech's blast come in.

Hey, dad. Can move $200? Hey, dad. Can you move $300? Hey, dad.

Steve: You know? Well, I got three kids that are gonna be going to college. So how much do I need to wholesale a month to be able to afford that?

Chris: I've been, I'm currently I don't know, somewhere about, I think,

Steve: U

Chris: of A is $12 for, I think, tuition a year. I think ASU is 11. The third is just entering junior college, so that's a little cheaper. But, I mean, I had now I went to Northwest Christian. So I've been used to this for a long time.

Steve: So just gotta keep performing.

Chris: Yeah. Just gotta keep going.

Steve: Very cool. Let's see. Pace wants to know, if you had a time machine, what stage of your life would you go back to? And what would you tell that version of him self?

Chris: Go back to o seven and Liquidate.

Steve: Liquidate.

Chris: Yep. You could sit on a boat for the rest of my life.

Steve: Well, I think that's a good place to end it. So if someone wants to get ahold of you, what's the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Chris: Either email or text message.

Steve: Yeah. You wanna put your announce your cell phone here?

Chris: Yeah. It's, (602) 292-0816.

Steve: Awesome. And, again, guys, if you like the show, please share this episode right now. And then tomorrow night, we've got our monthly meetup. Jerivadales is gonna be presenting. We're gonna be at McPhate Brewing from 04:30 to 06:30, tomorrow night.

So please be sure to attend. We'd love to meet you. Thank you, Chris.

Chris: Yep. Thank you.

Steve: Appreciate it. That was awesome.