$1.2MM+ Revenue by Driving for Dollars Virtually

Steve Trang: Everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we have Anthony Pappas with Mavro Properties, Rising Star in Phoenix, Arizona, and he's here to talk about how he did 1,200,000.0 last year by driving for dollars virtually. If If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer. Every month, we help hundreds of people buy more houses at deeper margins.

If you want more info on that, DM me the word sales on Instagram. I am on a mission to create 100 millionaires, and the information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire. In the next five to seven years, if you'll take consistent action, I assure you, you will become one. And the show is brought to you by ClosersLab. This is my partner, Max and Menace, doing live calls on Thursday mornings at 10AM, Arizona time.

Be sure to check that out on this channel on real estate disruptors. And if you get value today, please tag our friend below. Share this episode right now. That way, we can all grow together. And we do have a new show, Blockchain Wells, on Friday.

Go check out blockchainwells.com to find out more about that. This is a live show, so please ask your questions for Anthony to answer. Ready?

Anthony Pappas: Let's go.

Steve: Alright. So first question is, what got you into real estate? The typical Rich Dad Poor Dad book

Anthony: was the start. And, yeah, fiancee, Kristen, we were both working jobs we hated. She wanna try something new, decided to get licensed as an agent. Somebody in the brokerage said, you've gotta read this book. She read the book.

She forced me to read it even though I resisted it first. Mhmm. Then we're like, alright. We need to make some changes because there's a better way to live.

Steve: So she got licensed first. So she's the one that started this.

Anthony: Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve: Got it.

Anthony: And still be fixing toilets if it wasn't for her.

Steve: And toilets fixing toilets is not a bad way.

Anthony: It's not a bad way, but Yeah. You feel like you there's more out there, and I wanted more.

Steve: So Okay. So were you reading books at this time, or you just happen to pick up this book? Yeah.

Anthony: I've always been kind of a nerd, did a lot more, fiction than nonfiction and started going on a path of self development because of Joe Rogan's podcast, which I normally got into for just entertainment while I was driving around in a work van. And they started having some more serious topics, and that kinda opened my eyes to some self development.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So you pick up the book. You read it. It's eye opening.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: Then what?

Anthony: I was like, I need to talk to somebody that's good at real estate. So I reached out to my cousin who went to high school with Trevor Bradley Mhmm. Who's an amazing realtor. Yeah. And I hit up Trevor.

I'm like, hey, can I take you to Topgolf? I wanna pick your brain. And we went out. He's like, oh, so you wanna invest? I'm like, yeah.

He's like, how much money do you have? I don't have any money. Like, well, you're gonna need money. I'm like, Rich Dad, Poor Dad books that I don't need money. He's like, well, you're gonna need some money.

You wanna get licensed? I'm like, no, I got a full time job. He's like, well, maybe you should check out wholesaling. I was like, what's that? And that's when he put me in touch with you.

Steve: Yeah. You pointed you in that direction? Yep. Yeah. Gotcha.

So remind me, it's been a while. The rich dad poured out says you don't need money. So what does he recommend in that book?

Anthony: Well, you know, using other people's money. And, it seemed like back then buying houses, you could do it with almost no money down. And Right. In Phoenix, it's a little different story now. But Right.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's one of the common misconceptions that we have in our industry is that you don't need money to wholesale real estate, which is true, or invest in real estate, which is true. You don't need money to buy a house. Right. But you absolutely need money to market.

Yeah. And people kind of forget that part. Right. Because it's still a marketing business first.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So you connect with me.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: Then what happened?

Anthony: I kept harassing you on Instagram, and you're like, hey. So here's what you need to do. You need to invest in yourself, put some money into some training because you have no idea what you're doing, and I can't answer all your questions via Instagram.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: I was like, alright. Let's do this. Took some of our savings, and I think we did one of your mastermind, like, the weekend three day event.

Steve: Yep. So you came to our event. Yep. It was a two day event in Scottsdale.

Anthony: I think

Steve: that was, like, the third or fourth event I ever had. Right. And I remember you and Kristen were in the back learning. Right. So at that point, have you tried wholesaling yet?

Anthony: No. I don't think I don't even think I made any calls yet. I was still, you know, analysis by paralysis. So you

Steve: were still in education gathering mode? Yeah. Because I remember not only were you asking a lot of questions on Instagram, where you're like, what other books should I read? Like, you were what's the word I'm looking for? Like, your your brain could not be satiated.

There was just so much you wanted to learn Right. And grow. Right. And so they look, you're trying to grow. Like, you might as well just come to this event.

Right. So you came to the event. What was your takeaway from that?

Anthony: That I didn't know what I didn't know. Mhmm. And I realized, like, imperfect action is more important than just waiting for the right time. So I started text blasting and cold calling with the time I had after, you know, working all day plumbing. And then I kept harassing you even more, and that's how I ended up on the team.

Steve: So what were your hours when you were plumbing?

Anthony: So plumbing is very inconsistent. Normally, we'd start five to 6AM. You know, get in the van, head to the office, get your calls for the day. And then you didn't know if you're getting off at 04:00 in the afternoon or 10:00 at night, depending on when the last calls came in and if you're on the emergency rotation. So there's I would try to get home at four and make my calls when I could or just do it all on Saturday, Sunday if I couldn't make as many calls during the week.

Steve: And was this, it's been a while, a family business?

Anthony: No. I was at a family business left to try to go commission based plumbing because I'm like, y'all gotta get closer to the money. Commission's where it's gonna be at. And, yeah, it just Yeah. It didn't work out too

Steve: much. But you started initially with family. Yeah. Right? And then once you want got into real estate, it's like, well, I need to, maybe make a little bit more.

Right.

Anthony: Then

Steve: you went off to do more of a consultative kind of deal. Well, it

Anthony: was just commission based plumbing where you weren't hourly anymore as you got paid with on what you'd sell. Like, if I went to your house, I need to sell you on water softener so I can make some money on it. So that's Got it. More sales role.

Steve: And so I'm asking this question. You know? Yeah. A lot of people that are listening that are trying to balance, right, two different roles. Like, in in a perfect world, we're doing this whole time.

But

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Reality is a lot of people are trying to make this happen while they got their other job, whether they have family or they're just not ready to to jump with both feet. Mhmm. How was it for you when you're trying to do this with, like, you know, in in wearing two different hats?

Anthony: It it didn't work at all.

Steve: It was, it was

Anthony: a nightmare. I was drained, got burned out really quick, because it felt like nothing was working. It wasn't working because I wasn't putting in enough time. You know, I was expecting to go find a deal my first month in, sending a 100 texts a week, and it it just wasn't realistic. But at that time, I didn't know that.

I thought you'd just jump in and find deals in Phoenix and you're gonna go.

Steve: Well, I think there was a time where that was a realistic expectation.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: It just was no longer realistic by the time you got in.

Anthony: Right. Especially in this market.

Steve: In this market. Sure. Okay. So you tried doing this on your own. Mhmm.

It wasn't working. And at some point, you said, you know, like, you wanted to work with us.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: So, be totally honest here. Mhmm. How was that experience? Because, you know, don't try to protect my feelings. How was that experience?

Anthony: No. I wish I would have listened to you guys when you said, hey. You can't do this one foot in, one foot out. You know? We'll we'll try it.

We'll see if get some deals, get some confidence, and then you can quit the job. And we did, able to find one deal. Ruben locked it up for me because I was terrible on the phones. You know? I talked too fast.

I was in such a rush. I didn't jump on the morning calls to hear, you know, the the role play and stuff like that. So I was limiting my own growth by thinking, oh, I knew everything, and I can figure this out.

Steve: Right. Yeah. So but were there any things that you because you eventually, you went on to do your own thing. Right? That's why you're here.

Right. So were there any things that you learned there that made sense later on or, like, things that were surprising when you when you were working with us?

Anthony: So I liked how you guys had the team set up, and that's something that I kinda duplicated and, you know, I have now is very similar of what I saw when I was on the team and the importance of sales training.

Steve: Mhmm.

Anthony: It's really pouring into yourself and getting that education so that when you do have the opportunity, you can capitalize on it instead of miss out on so many that I did.

Steve: As they're practicing

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: When you finally get good quality leads.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: So So your very first deal is when you deal with Ribbon.

Anthony: Yep.

Steve: So talk to us about that deal.

Anthony: So that one I found driving for dollars because I I was plumbing, so I was driving all over town. Mhmm. And I would whichever app at the time before BatchDriving came out, PropStream, DealMachine, whatever we were using back then, and found a mobile with all this trash thrown outside of it. Like, all the furniture had been moved outside. I was like, well, that's interesting.

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: Put a sticky note on the door, added it, and then brought it back. And Ruben's like, all right, let's skip trace it. Let's cold call it. Got her on the phone. She's like, yeah.

My, tenant got in a shootout with the police. He is no longer living, and we'd love to sell this house. Mhmm. So Ruben negotiated a great price. Him and Max went out there, met her in person, got the contract signed.

And, yeah, that was rest of history.

Steve: That was your first deal? Yep. And then what happened after that?

Anthony: I just couldn't duplicate it. And then I kept not listening to you guys where you're like, you need to stay on the phones. I'm like, no. Driving for dollars worked. I'm gonna do all that.

Yeah. So I spent all my time driving for dollars in person, which takes way too much time. Mhmm. And then, yeah. So I just couldn't duplicate it and felt that the system was broken instead of being introspective and realizing I was the problem.

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So we kept pushing you.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: And eventually, we parted ways.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: And so at this point then, was this when you you were still driving for dollars at this point. Mhmm. So when did you quit your plumbing job exactly? And when exactly did we part ways?

Anthony: So I we, parted ways because I wanted to focus on, the plumbing job and then the live in flip that we're doing. Mhmm.

Steve: Because I

Anthony: was like, if we can sell this house, I'll have a nest egg, and then I could potentially quit the plumbing job.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: So, spent all day plumbing and at night laying tile, fixing up the bathrooms, getting this thing ready for market. And then we eventually sold that. Chris and I moved into our new house, and then I've had a nest egg. Mhmm. Even then, I still wasn't ready to take the leap.

You know, we sold that house, made $80 on it. It's the biggest check I had ever seen in my life. And I'm still uncomfortable about leaving the day job until I had some more guidance. Jesse Burrell kinda got in my head and kicked me out of the nest. He's like, every day you go to do plumbing, you're losing money.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: And that just, for whatever reason, resonated. I'm like, he's absolutely right.

Steve: So I'm glad that you hear that because that was gonna be my next question. Like, what was it, like, the impetus, the the thing that pushed you over the edge? So it was basically just Jesse explaining clearly Mhmm. That you're throwing money away by working.

Anthony: Yeah. Because, after we sold the house, I started dabbling again, started wholesaling on weekends and found another deal, started getting a little more traction after I poured into more knowledge. Right? I I started really going heavy into sales books, transactional analysis, neurolinguistic programming to understand the sales process. Like, I didn't understand a lot of what we were doing back then, like, some of the negative reversing and stuff like that.

It I was like, oh, that's just you sound rude. This doesn't work.

Steve: Right. And

Anthony: now I understand the psychology behind it. So then I felt more capable, and I started capitalizing on those opportunities.

Steve: So for everyone that's listening, because I think there's there's sometimes a challenge, right? Like, the when you're being told do something, you kind of rebel against it. And then you figure out later on your own, like, I know that was right.

Anthony: Absolutely.

Steve: Any lessons there? I don't know, or someone that's trying to deliver that message to you.

Anthony: Right?

Steve: Right. As a business owner, that maybe would be helpful for the listeners or maybe helpful for yourself, when you're trying to coach your own team?

Anthony: Yeah. That's a great question. Subjugate the ego, like Jocko Willing says. Mhmm. There's a reason someone's telling you something.

Steve: Mhmm.

Anthony: It's good to listen because they've already been there. They've learned from their experience.

Steve: Yeah. Well, that's good for the listener. Right. What will you tell the coach, the team owner, who's trying to convey that message to the team member? Because that It's a tough There's there's the the law of familiarity.

Right? There's a reason why we get in trouble for not listening to our spouses.

Anthony: Right. It's the

Steve: reason why we don't listen to our family members, even if they're right. Even even if they have relevant experience, we still disregard them because they're we're too close.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Right. So I'm just curious if there's anything that we could have done differently to help the message land effectively.

Anthony: Probably holding the line on, hey, we can't have part time people, you know, because looking back on it, that it just was not sustainable. Or I mean, it would be hard to get me to see what I needed to do at that time because I wasn't in the right state of mind. I mean, you guys believed in me before I saw that it was I remember at your birthday party, you're like, this guy is gonna make it. And I was like,

Steve: I don't

Anthony: know what he's talking about.

Steve: Well, that helps. You were the last person that we had working part time.

Anthony: See? It's been growing for everybody.

Steve: It worked for everybody. Right. Okay. So what was your first then when you decided to go off on your own? Mhmm.

What was your first major challenge or struggle?

Anthony: Learning the dispo side of things. Well, one, finding deals and then figuring out how to dispo. And that's where I got creative with, you know, leveraging the community and networking with some other people that had experience doing that because I was getting some traction finding deals, but I didn't know what to do at that point.

Steve: So that's

Anthony: where I partnered with some people to sell some deals and kinda learn that aspect.

Steve: Which makes a lot of sense. Because, like, every time I go to a birthday party, like you're there.

Anthony: Right?

Steve: Right? I think Rafael's fortieth birthday or something. And then, we just had Jesse Broul just had his gender reveal party like a month or two ago. Yeah. Like, oh, Anthony's here.

Right? So that makes sense. You are actively networking. So is that something that you're purposeful and intentional about?

Anthony: Right. I wanna I maybe subconsciously, yes. But I just kinda feel like being around people that are doing what you wanna do, it's gonna kinda rub off on you like that law of averages. You become the sixth person. When you hang out with five millionaires, you're gonna become the sixth.

You hang out with five successful people, you're gonna be the sixth. So kind of

Steve: Were you were you on our team at my birthday party?

Anthony: I think I no. I hadn't joined the team yet.

Steve: Okay.

Anthony: Yeah. Alright.

Steve: So, I mean, this is, like, going way down memory lane here. Right? Not trying to make this about me, but, like, what was your take on that birthday party?

Anthony: I was blown away. I mean, people are pulling up in Maseratis and BMWs, and there's a mansion on the side of the hill and and bartenders. And I was like, what is going on here? And everybody, you know, hey. How many deals are you doing a year?

I'm like, I haven't done a deal yet. Like, who are you? Like Yeah.

Steve: Do you remember, so you're talking about the bartender. So remember who the bartender was? I do.

Anthony: Yeah. Electric gloves. Legging off leggings off.

Steve: Right. I can't wait to have him on the show. Right? I mean, the sober investor. Yeah.

He was a bartender at the birthday party.

Anthony: And he's blown past everybody.

Steve: He's running the fastest of all of us. But what was, you know, interesting because this is a time two plus years ago and dating myself, right? I mean, we had Jamil, Brent, Jesse Burrell, right, like all these top wholesalers in town. And we also have all the top realtors in town, right? Just mingling.

It was a very interesting event. Okay. So, going back to your challenge with disbowing, it was networking. So Mhmm. You've since fixed the disbow problem?

Anthony: Yeah. We've gotten really, really creative with disbow, especially with what we do is a little different. Our model's a little different than the traditional, like, wholesaling of houses, so we've gotten very creative with how we find our buyers for what we do.

Steve: Okay. So how do you find those buyers?

Anthony: So we, go into the MLS. If we have access or in markets where we don't have access, we go onto tax records, use, batch leads to go in and use comps, find recently built houses, go into the tax records, find out the LLC that built the house, skip trace and column, build that relationship.

Steve: Okay. And this works because your focus is a little bit different than everyone else's focus. Yeah. What is your focus?

Anthony: Great question. We focus mainly on land. That's, I think out of all the deals we did, 98% of it was land last year.

Steve: Okay. So you find land. Mhmm. I guess let's take another step back. Let's talk about your sources of land.

Right? Like, who are you buying these pieces of land from?

Anthony: A lot of, investors that bought back in 05/00/2007 that have been sitting on it waiting for it to get back to where they bought in at. That's a majority of where our deals come from.

Steve: So these people are like, I'm finally back. Right. Yeah. And now you're calling them.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: What is that list? Like, is there a particular method or process to find those homeowners?

Anthony: So we kinda work backwards. We actually go find the buyers first in areas that we see a lot of movement. Mhmm. Find the builders that are in the area. Say, hey.

Are you guys looking for more in this area? Other than this part of town, where else would you like to buy? Mhmm. And they give us their buy box, and then we actually go find the land based on that and use some of those, twenty five on year owners, ten years owners kind of stuff to pull a list for the area and then go after that.

Steve: So you're when you're talking about builders, you're talking about, like, big time developers like Doctor Horton, or are you talking, like, guys that are building a couple houses a month? Like, who who's your avatar then as far as the buyer?

Anthony: The guys doing a few houses a year or a couple a month. Yeah. The the big guys have marketing teams. They have cold callers. They have outbound.

So they normally don't need you. Right. But the smaller guys don't have that kind of infrastructure. So that's where we come in and provide value to them.

Steve: Okay. So if that's if you're doing this kinda in a different order

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: How would someone today that's listening to this podcast go find that in their market?

Anthony: Well, the nice thing about it is most of these smaller builders put up a sign in the front yard Mhmm. The so and so home builder, and go drive your neighborhood or the area that you wanna invest in if it's a local market. Mhmm. Find those signs and start reaching out because I guarantee they do not wanna do the cold calling and the negotiating they want. Hey.

Go find me a lot of $85. I will buy it. Just bring you the deal.

Steve: Okay. So drive for dollars, finding these developers.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: And then asking them what they want. And then once you figure out what they want, what what's next?

Anthony: Find out what they want and then start marketing to those properties. Like, majority of the deals we do is virtually driving for dollars on you can do it for free using, like, the GIS mapping software most counties have, or if you want to get a little more, what's the word?

Steve: Granular.

Anthony: Granular. You can use systems such as, like, batch driven, batch leads to go in, use that because then you can just click to skip trace. So it speeds up the process instead of going GIS, getting the tax records going to true people. There is ways to do it completely for free, but it slows down the process. But, yeah, you just basically use the map feature and batch leads, go in, click vacant lots, hit skip trace, then call the owner and say, hey, I work for a small builder.

We're interested in your lot here. Would you consider an offer?

Steve: Got it. So source the builder, give trace either through GIS and true people search or batch leads.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: And then calling them. And now at this point, you're just negotiating.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: So, we had Jack Bosch on a show before, and his process for land is just sending out a whole bunch of mail with offers.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: That is not your process. I tried

Anthony: that. Lost a lot of money doing that.

Steve: Okay. What happened?

Anthony: So we started getting

Steve: a lot of traction in

Anthony: the virtually driving for dollars, started making good money, and we're like, oh, we're gonna scale this. We're gonna just go crazy with postcards. And, yeah.

Steve: We'd lost a lot of money with postcards. Okay. What part of postcards do you feel like wasn't effective?

Anthony: The systems. I didn't have the systems in place to field the calls as they were coming in.

Steve: So you were getting calls?

Anthony: We were getting calls. Yeah.

Steve: And then they were getting lost, or you weren't prepared for them?

Anthony: They're getting lost in Podio. We weren't prepared to handle the calls. They didn't get the same attention because, you know, the guys on the team were all working leads that we already have, and those are getting top priority instead of putting a postcard that somebody's ready to sell. Calling in is a top priority, but Got it.

Steve: Who was filling those calls?

Anthony: We had it, once again, you know, learning as we grow. I had it just call forwarded to everybody on the team. So whoever grabbed it first, got it. But sometimes they would just disappear into the ether and then It

Steve: was a free for all.

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: I don't think a free for all is necessarily awful.

Anthony: It's not a terrible idea, but it definitely shoulda had a little more structure so I could see what was coming where.

Steve: And So Lee comes in. Mhmm. And then, if nobody answers it, it goes into the ether. Yeah. So there was no Podio.

There was no CRM.

Anthony: We had Podio. We were running on a free Podio still because I'm weird with what I'm cheap about and what I'm not. Yeah. But we run on a free podium. So, yeah, things are just getting lost, and it happens.

Steve: It does happen, particularly with a free podium.

Anthony: Yeah. Especially on a free podium. We fixed that since. But

Steve: Okay. So so then a large chunk of your business then is working with builders and sourcing land. Mhmm. So then when you talk about driving for dollars virtually

Anthony: Right.

Steve: You're not talking about looking for ugly houses. No. You're talking about basically clicking on the images.

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: Okay. And and only reason I bring this up, there was, Karlsby Vogel. Right? He's another peer, a friend of mine. He's in Carolina.

And he calls it like, was it walking Polaris? And Polaris is just their GIS in that market. And they just, they find areas they like, and just click around and just look for odd shaped pieces of land. Right. And they make offers.

Anthony: Alright.

Steve: So, so predominantly, you're you're, you built a $1,200,000 business. And this is not to belittle this in any way. It's not an overly complicated system.

Anthony: No, that's what I love about it. It's Yeah, it's very simple. And the reason we were able to get to the revenue that we did was I created a little system, realized I could then teach somebody else that system, taught it to them, then we taught it to, you know, the next guy when Steven, Paul, Dylan, and now Carlos is with us Yeah. And just keep scaling through that way.

Steve: Gotcha. So then in building this model, who would you consider to be the key roles within your organization to make this model to make this model work?

Anthony: So I do a lot of so all five of us are still in acquisitions. We still all make calls. I handle a lot of the transactional coordination and majority of dispo. Steven will help me with a lot of dispo and some of the TC stuff. Then the rest of the guys are just straight acquisitions.

And we do cold call all all the way through closing the deal. So we don't currently have any outbound callers other than the team.

Steve: So you guys are pulling a list, throwing a triple line dialer or whatever?

Anthony: Oh, no. No. We, use cell phones. So we are having terrible response rates. So I went to T Mobile and just bought everybody a phone and said, alright.

Here we go. Here, everybody's got an iPhone. Mhmm. So now when sellers text back, they get the blue bubble. Mhmm.

They know it's a real person. It's a real phone, and our contact ratios went through the roof.

Steve: Okay. So everyone has a phone.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: Yeah. We went this model a couple years ago, and it was great. Right. And what we learned because we were we bought the phone, and we attached it to a Mac. What we learned was we never burned the phone number with the iPhone.

Right. We burned the Apple ID. Yeah. Because we're trying to text from the from the MacBook. Right.

Didn't know you could burn an Apple ID.

Anthony: Yeah. So they'll change it too. If you call in really angry and say, why is mine showing up as spam? Mhmm. They're, oh, we're so sorry, sir.

We'll fix it. Yeah. Yeah. We don't do a lot of text blasting, though, so that might be the

Steve: Yeah. We were we were text blasting very particular list.

Anthony: Yeah. I can see how I could go bad.

Steve: Yeah. They were not happy. Okay. So everyone in your company gets a T Mobile phone Mhmm. IPhone.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: And they're manually typing in those numbers Correct. And calling

Anthony: them. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So just for reference, how many dials can these guys make an hour with an iPhone?

Anthony: I'm not sure the KPI per hour, but on average a day, we're doing 75 to a 100.

Steve: Okay. So that's pretty good. Yeah. So they're doing 75 to a 100 dials a day. Okay.

So you said there's four or five guys in acquisitions. Mhmm. One of the acquisition guys is also doing part time TC.

Anthony: Right. A little dispo.

Steve: A little dispo. Yep. What else does the organization look like? Who else is in the organization?

Anthony: That's it. We're still very bootstrapped ground floor, you know, get figuring it out as we go.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So then, some time along the way, right? So you're working with us. You went off on your own.

At some point, you wanted to squad up. Right. But you don't have a squad partner anymore.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: What happened?

Anthony: Difference in, how we wanted to structure business and run it. You know, it was a great partnership. I felt like we both were able to complement each other as we're kind of building up in the the process, and he wanted to go heavy into PPC and, you know, the online stuff. And I felt like, hey, this is working. It's not broke.

Don't fix it. Let's pour heavier into this and just disagreement on the path.

Steve: So just difference in vision? Yeah. Nothing personal?

Anthony: Nothing at all.

Steve: Alright. Now, you have incredible person in your life. Yeah. Kristen, who was an integrator for us for a little bit as well. Right.

And she involved at all in your business?

Anthony: No. She's focused solely. She does mortgages 100. Okay.

Steve: Was there a strategic decision behind that?

Anthony: No. She just loves mortgages, and it kinda worked out. And she spends like ten hours a day doing that. So there wouldn't be any time to structure that otherwise.

Steve: Gotcha. It makes total sense. So business is working really well right now. Today, right, we're talking about the success. You know, last year, 1,200,000.0.

That's a really good year. Yeah. But it all wasn't, you know, unicorns and and rainbows. Right? So we talked about the postcards.

Yeah. What were some other challenges you faced along the way?

Anthony: Poured a ton of money into a bunch of cold callers. And then once again, if you don't have the systems to field it and you don't really vet the company that you're gonna use and you're just throwing money randomly at a wall, hoping some of it sticks, it turns out it doesn't. Yeah. And, yeah, we got, you know, a deal or two, but when you look at how much money was spent, it just wasn't worth it.

Steve: What kind of money were you were you throwing us the wall?

Anthony: It was, like, $5 a month just in $5 a month. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. And I didn't go anywhere?

Anthony: No. No.

Steve: Okay. So, and, you know, we all make these losses. Very weak. It's like, oh, this is gonna be great. And then after a year, you're like, wow.

That was a complete waste of

Anthony: money. Yeah.

Steve: What else was there along the way?

Anthony: Postcards were rough. Then we spent a bunch of money to order, it was like 3,000 door flyers so we could put on doors because we're out physically driving for dollars on the weekend, virtually driving for dollars throughout the week. We're still hitting doors, trying to maybe find some houses once in a while. And yeah, just wasted a ton of money and gas and time.

Steve: So you talk about one of the things we we you'd put in the form was how not to scale. Right. Was there anything else we wanna talk about as far as not to scale, lessons learned along the way?

Anthony: Just making sure you have the right systems in place for when you try to expand into marketing. Like, don't just jump into a new market and go, here's all my money. Mhmm. Go slowly, like having a free Podio and trying to spend all this money in marketing, and who knows where how many of the calls are actually making it because you're on the cheap call rail, and you're hoping things are set up right, and turns out they're not. Yeah.

Steve: What markets are you in?

Anthony: We're in Phoenix. Just moved into Dallas, and we're eyeing Vegas to see what's going on there.

Steve: Gotcha. A lot of your stuff is infill lots?

Anthony: Yeah. Majority of it's infill lots. We had just gotten into the entitlement plays on some lots. We took down a lot in Phoenix to get it entitled, and then some lots out in Whitman, we're gonna split, subdivide, and sell them off.

Steve: Awesome. Very cool. This entitlement thing, I'm hearing more and more about it.

Anthony: Yeah. It's it's it's really cool.

Steve: You wanna elaborate on it?

Anthony: So it's you could take a lot that you buy for 70, split each lot into, you know, little lots that are ready to go, get, well drilled and water piped to everything, and sell each lot for 70 and really maximize your return.

Steve: Alright. So you're buying it, entitling it Mhmm. And then profiting off of that.

Anthony: Yeah. So or you can take it. There's been one that we're taking through a rezone, but, unfortunately, it fell apart due to some title issues where we're taking it down. I'm gonna change the zoning on it and exit into the city of Buckeye, which would have taken a profit about four x of what we were gonna pay for the land.

Steve: Got it. Another thing you wrote down here was leadership. You wanna talk about a little about leadership?

Anthony: That's one of the things I think, most people as they try to build a team are probably gonna struggle with is, one, having the accountability to keep yourself heading in the right direction and then also the team. Mhmm. That's what poured a ton of money and time into, extreme ownership and dichotomy of leadership. One to two of the Jocko event musters, and it's been eye opening on how many things I was doing wrong.

Steve: Yeah. So big Jocko fan.

Anthony: Yeah. Giant Jocko fan.

Steve: Yeah. I think that's a if if Max could spend a day with anybody, I think I think it's Jocko. Yeah. So you were talking about, like, having, like, the free podio, you know, the analogy I've used on my team because they get frustrated with me too, believe it or not. You're on that team.

So, the the way I describe it is, like, we've got a Prius.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Right. And and I'm pushing it to, like, 120.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: It's not going very well. Right. But here's the system. I'm gonna take it as fast as we can.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: And then once it kind of starts getting a little rocky, now we're going to upgrade the Prius, you know, we get maybe we get better wheels, and may make a little more aerodynamic, maybe throw a spoiler on it. Who knows? Now I can go like 150. Right? But now 150 starts rocking.

Right? Now we're gonna beef up the system some more, improve the systems. And then I'm gonna take 180. So there's there's this dance right of like, hey, the system's not big enough. Alright, we got to be with the systems.

Right now the system is good. Let's grow some more. Alright, the systems that built for this speed, beef up the system more, and then we build up marketing, we're constantly going back and forth. Is that been your experience?

Anthony: 100%? Yeah, in the entire journey. Yep.

Steve: It never ends. You know, I wanna say, it's probably double digit, you know, today in my lifetime where I've that I've got to figure it out. Going exactly how I want it. And then you find out more of the things that are broken in your systems.

Anthony: That's a big Ray Dalio talks about that in his principles where you you go, you fall, you find the root of the failure, and then you fix it. And then you do it again, then you fall again, and you just keep trying to at least go up the hill as you're rolling.

Steve: Absolutely. Alright. So, before we go into the questions, guys, if you, are interested in checking out our blueprint, we got the closest lab blueprint coming up next month. Max and I are gonna spend two and a half days going over everything in our business, including finances, recruiting, sales, marketing, every part about our business we'll be going over. So check that out.

It's disruptors.com/blueprint. Again, you'll be coming to our office. It's gonna be in the June. Let us know if you guys are interested in that. Alright.

So jumping into the questions here on YouTube. Omar wants to know, which software or app are you using for Driving for Dollars virtually right now?

Anthony: Batch Leads and Batch Driven. Batch Driven's for on the go anytime we're out. Because a lot of times you're gonna drive to a property, take pictures of it. Believe it or not, when you're wholesaling land, you still gotta take pictures of stuff. So anytime I see a lot next door, I'll add it real quick.

And the nice thing, you can text through it. You can call. You know, it's turned into a commercial here. But then batch leads, we use an got a great map feature. It can build a list for it and send it off to the guys if you want to.

Steve: Sounds nice. On Facebook, Matt, Pierce wants to know, any advice on how to grow and structure your team?

Anthony: I'm still trying to figure that out, so stay tuned.

Steve: Yeah. Well, what what are you struggling with there right now?

Anthony: Scaling and just making we're we're omitting some new systems to try to streamline the process so that it moves a little more effectively.

Steve: Which part are are you trying to figure out, though, like, specifically into that?

Anthony: So we're trying to bring more inbound leads in. Right? So that the guys aren't getting burnt out, having to cold call day in and day out. Because it takes a toll when you have to transition from cold calling to acquisitions like that. Mhmm.

And so we're trying to, now I'm vetting some cold calling companies before I just throw money at the wall, and we're gonna try to give that another go.

Steve: Have you used CallMaticians?

Anthony: We haven't yet.

Steve: That's what we use. Okay.

Anthony: We're

Steve: happy with them.

Anthony: Give them a try.

Steve: Okay. So that's as far as growing your business out there. Right? Like, what about structuring your team?

Anthony: Structuring the team is just finding people that believe in the mission as much as you do and that you share a vision and alignment with. That's what I feel blessed to be leading the team that I do is everybody's in alignment. We have we share the same vision. We see the same goals, and we're all in alignment on how, if we all come in together, everybody's goal is gonna get met along the way.

Steve: Gotcha. How did you find the people that are on your team?

Anthony: So I found Steven at a Grant Cardone event, and then Paul found Steven. Dylan's an old time friend of mine. Then Carlos, I met through networking and going to different events.

Steve: So more reasons

Anthony: Right. To go

Steve: to events.

Anthony: Well, yeah. That's one of the like, we just did the clever summit, and we met, I don't know, 100 people Mhmm. Just from going to those events. It's not just the knowledge that you're paying for when you go to a seminar, a course, a three day weekend. You're meeting so many people that you could end up doing a lot of business with.

Steve: Yeah. Britney, she's a transaction coordinator for our company, and we met her at a REIA event. Right? And Max spoke on a panel at Arizona REIA. We speak on Monday, the next one.

But yeah, he met her or she followed him. Right? He was on the panel.

Anthony: Right?

Steve: And then eventually, when he posted about hiring,

Anthony: Like, I went in.

Steve: You went in. Yep. So it was awesome. So question from Joseph on YouTube is, what will you say to someone who cannot be full time?

Anthony: That's the tough part is how can I create some sort of value for somebody else that has the time to either get some deals done so that you can quit and go full time? That's it's gonna be hard. How can I can do nights, weekends? That's about all you can do till you find enough deals to build up the safety reserve to go full time.

Steve: Yeah. Because there's two ways to do it. Right? There's the go all in.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: And then there's the, well, let me get some revenue so so I can cover my bases or cover my expenses. And there's no right or wrong way. I'm the go all in. Right. Right.

Brenda Boats and and so on. But, you know, you gotta figure out what's right for you and your family. I think it's best to go all in. But I do recognize that some people have responsibilities, you got to honor those responsibilities, the harder in those instances. Follow-up question from Joseph, if he's never done a deal before, what training would you recommend he take first?

Anthony: Well, there's this guy, Steve Trang, that offers some training that changed my life. So, of course, I'm gonna recommend that. I think you may have a book out as well. That'd be a good place to start.

Steve: Yeah. Active Listening two point o. Mhmm. And, you know, I I do obviously, you know, we do love our training. I think there's a lot of stuff that we give here for free on real estate disruptors.

I think there's a great place to start. And I think taking action is probably the best place to learn, honestly. And then once you do that, and that's not working, then we got our workshop. We have a lot of great guys, great peers in the industry as well to learn from. But thank you for mentioning our our our workshop.

Jeremy Lewis on YouTube. You said you fixed the free Podio prom. Are you still using Podio, but a paid version, or do you switch to a different CRM?

Anthony: Yeah. So we paid for a built out version of Podio.

Steve: Okay.

Anthony: Someone way smarter than I went in and created.

Steve: Pulse or something different? Yeah. Pulse. Pulse. Yeah.

So Rafael Cortez?

Anthony: Yeah. Genius.

Steve: Super smart guy. Great with systems. Yeah. He built out Pulse Podio. So, if you guys are interested in that, check that out.

Anthony: It works great as long as I don't start messing with stuff.

Steve: Which is what we do as entrepreneurs.

Anthony: Yeah. Like, hey. I broke it again. He's like, alright. I'll fix it.

Steve: We'll break things. Yeah. So he asked the question, which company did you use but didn't have success with? I don't know if you feel comfortable answering that question.

Anthony: I'd rather not.

Steve: Alright. So I

Anthony: don't want my, my situation to tarnish a reputation because it it probably was a lot of our fault. So I don't want Yeah. I don't want the company to own it.

Steve: Ingrid Hernandez, what are some fundamental things you should ask a motivated seller regarding land?

Anthony: Utilities. What utilities are on the lot? And there's a big difference between on the lot compared to in the street. Mhmm.

Steve: If

Anthony: they're in the street, it could take, you know, anywhere from 9 to $30,000 to bring them onto the lot. So it's a big negotiating point, create some clutter so that you can get that price reduction that you're most likely gonna need.

Steve: Got it. What about them? Like, why are they selling?

Anthony: It's motivation's good. Although a lot of land is just very transactional. You're just people that have held it for so long. They're like, I don't need the money. I don't care.

Can you make me an offer that makes sense?

Steve: Yeah. And then on Instagram, Pedro, someone was saying we used to already talked about that. On YouTube, Ron Raul Riven, how does Podio track the cell calls?

Anthony: So Podio doesn't track the sales calls. We, we

Steve: Cell, c e l l.

Anthony: Oh, cell.

Steve: So if you're calling from your cell

Anthony: Oh, I got you. Yeah. It does not. No. Yeah.

So we do a lot of there's apps you can download on the phone if you want to record calls and then, listen to them at a later date. Or if you're saying how do you track how many dials are done out, we're on an honor system. Yeah. So it I mean, you can go into the call records in T Mobile and see how many dials have been made from a phone.

Steve: Okay. So you can see it from T Mobile side. It's not great detail.

Anthony: Accurate. Yeah. If it like, if it doesn't hit a voicemail, it doesn't record it as a call. Mhmm. Or if it doesn't get answered, so there's a lot of.

Steve: Really. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I guess that makes sense. It only tracks a little answered.

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. It has to have been going for a minute for it to record it.

Steve: Yeah. Any reason why you use T Mobile?

Anthony: No. That's just who I had.

Steve: I'm just asking. We used a burner company. I can't remember who it was. Right? It's one of those, like, you pull it off the rack.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: On YouTube, Dan, is who is the cold calling company we use? Call Magicians with Stratton Brown. You can find them on Instagram as strat daddy. Someone that, we had the honor and privilege of coaching up when he was getting started. So we love his process.

We love his company because it's in line with how we do our business. We'll wait for a couple other questions for these to come in. What other things would you recommend? Right? Like, because you've got three years experience now, which is it's funny.

Right? It's only been three years.

Anthony: Yeah. It's all, gone fast.

Steve: What other bits of advice or things you wish you knew then that you know now?

Anthony: The importance of changing your mindset and that you're you can do this and that it's it's possible. Because I know it's you see podcasts and all these guys making all this money, and you're like, I can never do that. I was that person. I was listening to this while I was fixing toilets and water heaters and crawling in attics, and I was like, oh, there's no way it works. And then you start to get a little traction, and you're like, oh, I feel good.

And then you fail, and you're like, oh, see. I knew it. Those limiting beliefs will eat you alive if you don't fix that first.

Steve: I remember we talked about that. Mhmm. So how did you fix the limiting beliefs?

Anthony: Pouring into these books on why your brain works where it does. Like, Upward Spiral was a great one on It actually touches on a lot of depression, but a lot of other systems that you can use for fixing those limiting beliefs.

Steve: Any things you wanna share? Like, any exercise that anyone could take today? Because I think there are a lot of people. Right? The struggle with limiting beliefs.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Any any exercises you can recommend on that?

Anthony: Absolutely. So I did a lot of the I am affirmations.

Steve: Mhmm.

Anthony: There's one that I found on YouTube that I would listen to every morning in the gym, and I started going to the gym every morning instead of like, oh, sometimes in the afternoon, sometimes I'd miss a day. So that changed my life too is the repetition, the habits, listening to I it was just I am affirmations while I'm lifting in the gym. I am wealthy. I am successful. I am rich.

I am powerful. And that kinda changed my mind. That and ancient Greek quotes from philosophers.

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: I don't know why, but I just started listening to those on repeat. So when I'd run into situations in life, I would recall the quote Yeah. And it would kinda change my mindset.

Steve: Was it Meditations? Which what's the one by Mariel Marcus Aurelius? I can't remember what it's called. Okay. So the reason other reason why I'm asking this is, like, I've gone to events.

Right? You got the Sean Terry's freedom extreme freedom events. Right? And you go to these events, and there's I've gone to multiple. And for me, I always hated that the first day, they're talking so much about mindset.

I thought it was, like, what a waste of time. Like, I came here for tactics. I came here for, like, information. I go

Anthony: right

Steve: home, execute right away.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: I didn't realize at that time that I am in the minority, where, like, I only need a little bit information. I'm going 100 miles an hour.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Most people struggle with with mindset. Mhmm. So, I'm glad we got the chance to talk about this because I think it's absolutely critical, item. So, Luke Creccia, wants to know what books do you suggest reading to learn about building systems out?

Anthony: That is I'm still learning to develop systems myself. And I don't have any great books on that. I'm still trying to figure this out. Yeah. So I don't I can't speak to that very confidently.

Steve: But it's a testament to what you've accomplished. Right? Like, you feel like you have a lot of areas to improve upon.

Anthony: Or it

Steve: sounds like you feel like you have areas to improve upon. But, you know, you're still struggling. Right? And I also demonstrate some humility as well. So is there anything that, like, you're you're wondering about that we can kinda talk through here?

Anthony: Once again, the scaling. Just making sure that the way I scale, it's, the right way to do it and that I'm being more conscious of what I'm spending. Because when looking at the p and l of last year and how much money was thrown into the ether, I mean, we burned a quarter million dollars on exploratory marketing, and that that hurts.

Steve: It does. It absolutely does. Have you read Profit First?

Anthony: I have read Profit First. I just got Profit First for real estate investing as well. So Certain on that one.

Steve: So I think there's that. So, we actually had done an amazing job with Profit First.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: Until very recently, then we kinda had some bad habits Right. Creep in. Yeah. And so we've had money kinda go the wrong way. And, you know, maybe this month, we're maybe borrowing money from one company to another company.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Non ideal.

Anthony: Right. And

Steve: so for us, I can say that, we hired a controller. Now maybe you don't need a controller, but maybe a bookkeeper. I don't know things to look at. But with a controller that we're actively looking to hire, they have full permission to be interface, or doing it wrong.

Anthony: Don't tell Kristen, she might, she might take you up on that job.

Steve: Right. But if they tell you like, hey, like, you're supposedly spending 12 to 20% on marketing, and you're spending 40. Right? And they can slap us around. So I think that was something that's been really helpful or or hoping it'd be really helpful for us.

Right. Anything else you're looking at as far as systems?

Anthony: Just slowly scaling and realizing when you go into a new market and going slowly. Mhmm. You know, tip put a toe in the water first before jumping all in, spend less marketing, really get to know the market. Like, we've gone out to Dallas three times physically to really go feel out the market and see which areas we wanna go to, did a lot of driving for dollars in there, looking at what builders are building. And I'm not saying everybody has to do that because it's an expense.

Yeah. But I feel more confident in that market now that we're gonna start marketing there. Yeah.

Steve: And then Matt Pierce on Facebook. Do you do text marketing at all via batch?

Anthony: No. We don't do any text marketing. Every now and again, if we hit a voice mail of somebody that makes sense, we use the RJ Bates approach where it's a, hey. Did you get my message? Mhmm.

That text has been phenomenal with response rates. Because they go in, oh, I didn't get your voice mail. Who is this? They call you back and, like, who is this? Like, I left a voice mail about some land.

Mhmm.

Steve: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. He's crafty. Yeah.

We're gonna be doing some stuff together very soon. And then follow-up on YouTube by Malcolm Hester. Is there someone that you recommend what would would you recommend someone getting started in wholesaling to go for land or houses first?

Anthony: So I think it's gonna be, very specific on which market you're in. Because for every 100 house flippers, you have one builder. So, yeah, it's maybe easier to recognize land, especially in areas like Texas where land is plentiful, but who are you gonna sell it to? Now, like, you're saying, who's Jack Bosch that does a lot of land on seller financing and crushes it? So that's just not a model we implement.

We normally go for builders, so that limits who we're gonna sell to. That's something to think of. Like, land is great because it's easy. Oh, here's a vacant lot. Let me see if I can lock it up.

But who are you gonna sell it to? So you kinda have to work backwards.

Steve: Right. So one of the things that you've been very active about, we talked about already, is networking. Right. Any suggestions for people getting out of their comfort zone or whatever? Because would you consider yourself to be a naturally social person?

Anthony: Not at all. Right. So The opposite.

Steve: That's why I'm asking this question. What tips would you give somebody to be intentional about networking?

Anthony: Lots of tequila. Not gonna do that. But, just getting out of your comfort zone because it's it's a muscle. Right? When you go to the gym, you're gonna feel pain, but it's because you're growing.

Same thing with these meetups. The first time, it's gonna be rough and you don't wanna talk to people. The second time you go, you recognize a few faces. Mhmm. Third time you go, you're more friendly because you know these people are gonna be there.

Then you start to expand that social sphere a little more so that you can

Steve: start doing deals with people. Right. So be consistent.

Anthony: Mhmm.

Steve: On top of being consistent, for someone that's shy, is there anything that you did at the at the at the networking events to be more approachable or to make more connections?

Anthony: Set a goal. Say, I'm gonna talk to five people today. Get some business cards printed up. And

Steve: Business cards?

Anthony: Business cards. Yeah.

Steve: 2022. Yeah. I

Anthony: know. We still well, the nice ones we've got now are, like, you can, get the QR code,

Steve: and you

Anthony: can just scan them or you tap them to the phone. But business cards and, we I spend a little more on business cards to get the nice thick, like, wash proof ones. So if

Steve: they end up

Anthony: in jeans and they get washed, they the card survives. Because people have always complimented us on the card and, you know, try to make an appearance that people believe that you are who you wanna be. You know? Have a if you don't have an LLC yet, just wear a nice shirt, kind of present yourself in a a nice light.

Steve: Maybe like one of these.

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. Nice collared shirt. Just be presentable. Be put a smile on your face.

Read the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People has been helpful as well.

Steve: I see you went with Nike. I really like the Travis Matthews.

Anthony: Right. I haven't tried them yet.

Steve: They're comfortable. You should check one out before you leave.

Anthony: Okay.

Steve: Joseph, wants to know, how are you finding builders? So we kinda talked about driving for dollars. Right. Is there any other ways you're finding builders?

Anthony: So it depends on the market. Texas is hard because it's a non disclosure state. Mhmm. But you can even Google house builders, your city, see who pops up and start calling them. A lot of them will be build to hire.

So you have to buy the lot and then they'll build for you. But you can say, hey, do you have anybody that's looking to build in this area? I have this off market land. And they most likely do.

Steve: Have you talked to the National Association of Home Builders?

Anthony: I have not. I have not yet.

Steve: So that's supposed to be one of the biggest, associations. Right?

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Where I would imagine right? Because it's gonna be dominated by the big players. But I imagine there should

Anthony: be a

Steve: lot of smaller players there as well.

Anthony: You would think so. Yeah. Absolutely.

Steve: Back when I was actively looking to get listings from home builders Mhmm. That was where I was, marketing to or getting ready to market to.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Jason Lam on YouTube. What was the most common objection that you get from sellers when you're calling about Lam?

Anthony: That they're not interested. That's the number one go to. And then the other one is just, it's it's very transactional, so a lot of haggling over price. And that's where having the knowledge to go through what it's gonna cost to build. Mhmm.

Because if you're just trying to go in, can I give you a cash offer for your how or for your land, the neighbor lot sold for 60, I'll give you 50? Like, no. Right. But knowing what a water meter is gonna cost for your area, knowing what a septic or sewer tap is gonna cost, knowing what it's gonna cost to pull power or a soil test survey, all these things that really go into development. The beautiful thing is most cities have a fee schedule.

So you type in fee schedule, FEE, and then go City of Phoenix, and it'll tell you what it costs for all the fees from the county, and you can build a list. So now you create a ton of clutter to go to the seller and say, hey, I can't pay you 80 for your lot. The one next door that sold for 80 had all this. You don't. How do these two compare?

Steve: Right. That's awesome. On, Instagram, what are the must have tools you need if you are just starting?

Anthony: So that's the thing is you can start free. You can use the county GIS. You can use true people search, free free people search, whichever one you wanna use, and then start that way. Go find a lot, give Trace the owner, give him a call, and just that is a great way to start. But and then some sales training.

You need sales training.

Steve: Yep. Just a quick plug. We do sales training. So, Ingrid on YouTube. Is there an advantage to trying to take over land creatively?

Anthony: I can't speak to that. We don't do anything creative. We've actually had issues where we tried to pitch some creative stuff to some builders.

Steve: And they

Anthony: don't wanna do that because they wanna buy the land, and then they cross collateralize it with their construction loan. Or they go to the bank and they say, hey. If we default on this loan, you get the land.

Steve: So if

Anthony: you're gonna do something creative, now that Stellar would have to subjugate into a second or third position, which most of them don't wanna do.

Steve: So I understand what you're saying.

Anthony: Mhmm. But

Steve: other people might not know what you're talking about. Right? Don't elaborate.

Anthony: Yeah. So if, I were to buy land from you and you would become the first position because you'd say, hey. You I still own the note. On the bank.

Steve: Yeah. You're the

Anthony: bank. I'm borrowing Mhmm. Your land from you, making payments. If a if I'm a builder and I want to bring in a construction loan from the bank, they're gonna push you to second position because they're not gonna go behind you because they wanna make sure that if I don't do what I'm supposed to do, they can take the land as collateral. Mhmm.

They can get some of their money back. And I we just I could be not pitching it right, but a lot of sellers don't want to take that kind of risk.

Steve: Right. Well, I think in info loss, they might be willing to take the risk where they can see the product, if they can see the end result. But it has to be, like, immediately obvious.

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: I think they were talking about outer pieces of land.

Anthony: Yeah. That

Steve: doesn't make any sense. Because I've seen this happen with, like, you're talking about, like, a piece of land on Paradise Valley or in Paradise Valley. Right?

Anthony: Oh, yeah. I could see that working.

Steve: You can make that argument like, look, like, once we build this out, like, look how much equity is gonna be here.

Anthony: Right.

Steve: But, anyway, that's besides the point. Luke on YouTube, thoughts about agent relationships acquire wholesale deals versus going direct to seller. So, obviously well, here. So I'll just what are your thoughts? Should do you market to realtors, or should you market directly to seller, for your business?

Anthony: So our business model up until this point has been direct to seller on everything. Normally, if there's an agent in the middle on land, they're going off comps in the area. They don't care about utilities. They wanna get their client as much money as possible, which is their job. Mhmm.

And you have to try to educate them, but we have not been able to get past that barrier to say, hey, We need a $40,000 price reduction for these utilities.

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: Oh, we did just get the agent investors course, so we're going into that. So hopefully we can learn some new tricks that we've been missing out on.

Steve: Yeah. All you young fellas.

Anthony: Mhmm. Oh, Ryan Zolan.

Steve: Yeah. How old are you?

Anthony: 32.

Steve: 32. Alright. So

Anthony: yeah. I'm Out of the young guys club.

Steve: You're still in the young guys club. You guys are all still babies. Vasili in Sacramento, any advice for his specific market?

Anthony: I have nothing in Sacramento, but I'm sure there's opportunities there. If you can find especially infill lots where builders can go in, there's always an opportunity.

Steve: And, what is your why? What keeps you going?

Anthony: I've always wanted to be successful. The beautiful thing about success is you can never obtain it. It just keeps getting a little, little farther away. So that's just always been my goals. Pretty bad upbringing, so not trying to end up there again.

Yeah.

Steve: So tell me a difficult upbringing. Was there anything particular that that pushes you? Is there any particular memory that you reference back to?

Anthony: Oh, yeah. Waking up, no power because, you know, power building, get paid, cold showers, section eight, water. You know, the water to shower, that was always fun. You know, I have to go to school. I haven't showered in a few days.

And Yeah. Food stamps was just always embarrassing to me. And

Steve: parents were doing what they could, but, you know, it was it was rough. Was that here?

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: And I think that's that's powerful. Right? Because it kinda goes to, like, this is attainable. Like Right. There have been so many people that have come on to the show, and they started from pretty much scratch from the bottom.

Right. I think of all the shows we've had about 200 episodes, only one person came into it with money. Everyone else is like, came from hardship, and they made this work. But I think that's awesome that you have very clear ideas on what drives you. And in some ways, I mean, let me ask you this.

Will you change anything?

Anthony: No. No. My past is, it's been great for fire and fuel to keep me going through, and I wanna give up. And I'm like, no. No.

Steve: Yeah. Not going back.

Anthony: Yeah. Too many people doubted me for this. I'm going all in.

Steve: Yeah. So you got that as well. So you got, a, came from hardship, and b, you got a chip on your shoulder.

Anthony: Oh, yeah. The chip's deep. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: You got any specific people that have doubted you that motivates you?

Anthony: Oh, there's been a there's been a lot over the years, and that's why I'm so big and loud with my dreams and goals Yeah. Is so that every time so you can see it in their eyes, like, you can't get it. It's like, okay. Come on.

Steve: So I was the weird one when I said you have a future.

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. I was like, who is this guy? Who's being so nice?

Steve: What is your biggest struggle right now?

Anthony: Just scaling, just growing out of business.

Steve: Yeah. Who's helping you with that?

Anthony: Jesse Burrell has been a lot of help. Like, stop doing that. You're doing it wrong. And it normally takes, like, three months for me to listen.

Steve: Yeah. Sounds about right. Sounds familiar, actually, as a business owner as your

Anthony: Yeah.

Steve: As your former boss. Yeah. Yeah. I I highly recommend Gary Harper. Right?

I mean, he's he's he's made a big difference big change in our business. So, you know, if you decide to go further out. So what is your superpower?

Anthony: My creativity, I'd say. If I I'll go down a path, and if I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, I'll make a new tunnel. Mhmm. That's been

Steve: So can you give an example?

Anthony: I like the land thing. Right? So when I first got bailed wholesaling the first time, got back into it, I was going after houses again. And I was calling and competing with the same people. You show up, there's four other wholesalers.

I'm like, I don't like this.

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: And then, we found the first land deal. I was like, oh, there's something here.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: Then locked up sticks the next month. I'm like, oh, there's definitely something here.

Steve: Right.

Anthony: And just went all in on that, created the system, found out what worked, really dove into the numbers and what builders will pay. And then I found Stephen, and he's like, I'm down for the ride too. Showed him how to do it. He has success. I'm like, alright, we've got something here.

Steve: That's cool. Yeah. What is the greatest lesson you've learned?

Anthony: Invest in yourself. As cliche and corny as that sounds, it's very important to find out what your weaknesses are and be honest with yourself. Like, I sucked at sales. I was terrible on the phone. Mhmm.

I would talk too fast. I wouldn't make the calls. If I did make the calls, I was half assing it because I just wanna get through the calls, so I hit my quota. That's and then slowing down and saying, hey, these are where I lack. This is what I'm bad at, and finding a way to fix it.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, I do remember a couple of times where I was just sitting behind and was like, yo, like, you said this. Why'd you say this? Why'd you say that way? Why'd you say it this way?

Probably wasn't helpful because it was really nitpicky.

Anthony: But No. It was because, I mean, look where I am now. So

Steve: Yeah. What was your favorite best or most interesting failure?

Anthony: Best or most interesting failure? Probably out the gate. You know, I mean, I had a golden ticket for wholesaling, and I basically squandered it. And that could have been the end of it. I could still be plumbing if I hadn't decided to give

Steve: it another shot. You know what I mean? Yeah. Ingrid wants to know what's an infill lot?

Anthony: Infill lot are just lots in neighborhoods that are already developed. Now, the drive thru fire damage are also another great one to treat for land value. So if you see a fire damaged property, you can go to builders and say, hey. Would you be interested in this as well? Which they normally do because utilities are already in place, and they just can keep one existing wall, get through permits faster.

Steve: Right. So you mentioned that you're a creative problem solver. So this is from Vasili in Sacramento. They've had many forest fires in the Sierras. How would you approach those homeowners?

Anthony: That's gonna be a tough so a lot of them are going to get insurance money and then have the ability to rebuild. But you're I mean, those are tough calls because somebody lost everything. So you have to go in very soft, very compassionate, very empathetic of what they went through because that's terrible. I don't that's gonna be a rough call. Hey.

I understand what you've gone through. Actually, I don't understand. I've never lost a house to fire. But if you're interested in selling the property, we'd be interested in buying it, and then you could take the money that you get from the lot plus your insurance and pick a different area if you'd like. If not, I completely understand.

Yeah. That'd be that'd be a

Steve: rough call. It is a tough call. I mean, that's almost it's up there with probate. I

Anthony: don't know which one's worse.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Probates are bad. Yeah. Alright.

So last question is, what book have you

Anthony: gifted more than any other?

Steve: Extreme Ownership. Okay. Why that book?

Anthony: Oh, it's life changing for me. Everything's your fault. And if you don't think it's your fault, find a way to make it your fault, and your life's gonna get better.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. You wanna elaborate on that? Like, why why is that so effective?

Anthony: Because it takes away the blame. Like, in the beginning, I blamed, the data I was using sucked. The, Mojo wasn't working. Oh, at Podio, I can't find the leads. Oh, it's everybody else's fault.

Mhmm. But soon as I was like, hold on. Why isn't this working? It's because you suck at sales. Have you done any of what they told you to do?

Have you studied? Have you done any of this? No. You haven't. Mhmm.

So that's as soon as you start taking ownership for your life, that's when things really change.

Steve: That's awesome. Happy to hear that. Alright. So think about what you wanna leave the listeners with. Alright.

I'm gonna make a few quick announcements. Guys, if you got value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. I say this selfishly, but we can reach more people, help more people if we get more engagement. And then we do have ClosersLab tomorrow, 10AM, with Max, and then we have on Fridays, blockchainwhales.com. If you guys can't tell, I'm very serious about Blockchain.

I think this is the future, and I'm trying to be the guy that's gonna marry blockchain and real estate, although I got some friends, that are gonna be I'm competing against as well. So next week, we got Nick Marietta, and we got Ryan Pineda. So be sure to check it out next week. And when I'm talking about friends that I'm competing against, Ryan's number one. Sorry for the blockchain and real estate.

What are some last thoughts you wanna leave listeners with?

Anthony: You have to be persistent. You have to want it because life's gonna test you every step of the way. And you make $10 a month, can you make 15? Can you get out of that limiting belief? Can you get to 20?

Mhmm. Then you hit get to a 100, and then it it's real. It works, but you have to want it more than anybody else, and you have to put what you want above everything else. Are you willing to set aside the video games, the movies, the basketball games, and really dive deep into your future and what you want?

Steve: Yeah. Powerful. I I was on a phone yesterday with Jason Lewis who owns Investor Machine. We're launching a lead manager training program together. And he asked me what got me back into basketball.

Anthony: I was

Steve: like, well, I stopped watching it in 2007 Right. When I went into business for myself. Right. It wasn't till a couple years ago, last year really, I got back into it. So, you know, you're talking about what you're willing to sacrifice.

I made a conscious decision. I watched literally every UFC championship. Right?

Anthony: Right.

Steve: Until 2007.

Anthony: Right. Then that

Steve: was the year I stopped watching UFC and basketball. Still watch the Cardinals. Right. Even as atrocious as they were. But, yeah, I think that's a great message.

What are you willing to sacrifice? What are you willing to give up to achieve your goals?

Anthony: Yeah. Trust me. I was video games heavy. I would get from that was my escape from the life I hated. I'd get home, tequila, a little weed, video games, numbed.

Steve: We don't do weed in this office.

Anthony: Oh, we definitely don't. But Yeah. I did at the time.

Steve: There's a lot of laughter over there. For some reason, like, drug testing tomorrow. But how

Anthony: much are you willing to give up for the life you want? And that was what changed mine is I set aside everything I could and kept trying to that's why I like Jocko so much because that's what I compare myself to.

Steve: Yeah.

Anthony: Oh, I got up at 06:30 today? Oh, he's already up at 04:30 lifting. Right. I gotta go harder.

Steve: Yeah. You gotta go harder. Yeah. If someone wants to get ahold of you, how would they do that?

Anthony: Instagram, AD Pappas. Facebook, Anthony Pappas. Yeah. Yeah. And I would love to help out.

Steve: So, this was a special episode for me. Right? Because I got to connect with you Mhmm. Before in the very beginning part of your journey. Yeah.

Right? I got to work with you, coach you for a bit, mentored you for a bit, and say everything you've accomplished is such a great joy for me.

Anthony: It's been an honor on this end as well.

Steve: So thank you. Thank you. I'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 2: Shout out to Steve Trane. Jump on the Steve Trane. We've real estate disrupt us.