Why Cold Calling Is Dead In 2026… Lessons Learned After Spending $100M In Ads

Craig Murdough: So once we signed the contract, sent it to her, the next day we got served. After that, I I knew it was like, hey, I can't keep doing this if I'm gonna run into that same issue. One way is have these people reaching

Andrew Rapier: Inbound is gonna be so much more important than cold calling. Pretty soon, we're gonna have 40% of people not answering the phone because of iOS update. Android's gonna do the same thing. They love that they're not getting end potential cold calls or loan offers or refi offers from random numbers a day. They won't even know that someone's calling them because it's a number they don't know.

We'll just completely they know you can deal with the voice mail and they can decide to call back if you want. Where, at least before, if you're cold calling, like, the phone was gonna ring unless, you know, it was disconnected. Now it's it's you're never even gonna get a chance for them to to get that call.

Steve Trang: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of Disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have Craig Murdo and Andrew Rapier with LeadHouse three sixty five, and they flew in from Orlando to talk about why cold calling is dead in 2026 and the lessons they learned after spending a $100,000,000 guys. I wanna mention create millionaires. The information on this show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, you will become one.

Before we jump in, if you're here to learn how real entrepreneurs are building real empires, make sure you hit that subscribe button because every week, we're dropping lessons that can help you create your first or your next million. And right now, you've got a 100,000 quarter mil, probably more sitting in your CRM. Resurrect all your old and dead leads with the objection proof AI calling agent. Text cash to the phone number 33777 to unlock the money that's just hanging out in your CRM. Guys ready?

Go. Alright. So you guys have an interesting story arc. So I I think we'll start first is what what what got you guys into real estate?

Andrew: He can start there because he's the real estate guy. I got into real estate because of him. So Okay.

Craig: Yeah. I got into it just from a friend of a friend. I, we grew up together in New England. And, once I was done with the weather and I just moved I moved to Texas and was working just a nine to five, and it just wasn't cut out for me. You know?

I knew that there's something more. Met a friend who introduced me to another friend about real estate, and from there, I just, you know, was all YouTube and started learning about wholesale and this whole this whole strategy of of assignments. Right? And, you know, I got into it, and it took me about six to eight months to get my first deal under contract, which is still sitting at the closing table to this day ten years later because of a seller backing out, but that didn't stop me. I knew there was a proof of concept.

I could feel there is something there. And from there on out, within a a month after that deal falling apart, I got three under contract, closed them all, and then quit my job and just went full force in wholesale.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So I was at journey? It was, like, ten years ago.

Craig: Yeah.

Steve: So how was that, journey in building out your wholesale operation?

Craig: It I mean, it was hard. It was tough, you know, because I at that point, I was more materialistic with money, and I was not investor savvy. I didn't know where to put it. I didn't know to, you know, put it back into marketing or I was just like, hey. I'm gonna upgrade my car.

I'm gonna get the newest iPhone. You know? I'm gonna go and buy a bunch of Bitcoin or or go to the casino.

Steve: So So Probably was a good mess one, though.

Andrew: That probably was.

Craig: Yeah. But, As

Andrew: long as you still have it.

Craig: I I was just living day to day, you know, just buying stuff to impress people that don't care. You know?

Steve: Mhmm.

Craig: You can just play in that game. And, once I I realized that I was doing more harm than good, I started, you know, opened up the back end of the business and was like, okay. I started figuring out where to put the money. Right? And it all led back into marketing.

From there, you know, we, we increased our deal size because we're feeding the machine. And, you know, we got away from some cold call and some outbound strategies we had, contacted Andrew, and then we, essentially built LeadHouse from scratch based on my experience with with outbound. We just switched it all to inbound. And then So

Steve: you were doing deals. How long ago did you looking at the ring, Andrew?

Craig: Five years ago.

Steve: Five years ago.

Craig: I got hit with a TCPA litigator, lawsuit.

Steve: So, so five years ago, you're going you're wholesale. Where what market were you in?

Craig: Houston.

Steve: Houston. You're doing deals in Houston. And how many deals were you doing at that time?

Craig: We were doing anywhere, I would say, probably four to five to, like, our best month was, like, 10, maybe 12. Yeah. But we were just solely focused on the deal, just going full speed ahead. We were ripping any list we could find from anywhere and just dialing everybody. And that's what happened.

Steve: The pulling lists.

Craig: Yeah. We're

Steve: chasing them. Hole calling them. Hole calling them.

Craig: Yep.

Steve: Network. Right?

Craig: Yep. Until Until. I hit a lady who was, like, I think they call him a troll, is it? Like, a like a d a DNC troll, and she just sets up a bunch of fake numbers. And and just dog walks people who call about whatever property it is and just dog walks them right into a contract.

So once we signed the contract, sent it to her, the next day we got served. Yeah. So it was I mean, she had a process. And after that, I I knew it was like, hey. I can't keep doing this if I'm gonna run into that same issue.

You know, I'm not set up to

Steve: A lucrative model for them. Correct. Right. I mean, like, I don't see it so much right now, but I remember for a while, like, there were commercials at night. Like, are you getting cold calls?

Yeah. Yep. Right.

Andrew: And and he said, like, whole discord communities of peep teaching people how to do it. And you join my you join my program, I'll teach you how to to get paid back against these people, and you get paid. I get paid, like, you know, crazy.

Steve: So join my program to learn how to or call the wholesale. And other guys join my program on how to collect money from people that are cold calling wholesale.

Andrew: Exactly. Exactly.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Discords is crazy. Yeah. I knew attorneys were doing it Yeah.

By having a discord behind it. Mhmm. Mhmm. That's wild.

Craig: So, yeah, that that whole mess happened.

Steve: So, I mean, was it, like, one TCP fine, or was it, like, he was subpoenaing you? Like, what was that situation?

Craig: Yeah. It it was one from the, same lady, but she had a she had a, a class action lawsuit going on with a bunch of like, she's known for doing this.

Steve: Oh, so she was, like, getting other people

Craig: to come

Steve: after you or come after you?

Craig: No. No. No. No. No.

But she was just like, hey. I'm I'm not playing. I'm not playing around. So and I was too green at that point. So we didn't really fight it.

You know, we did countersue, and then we ended up settling out of court. But it I wasted, you know, six months of my life dealing with this problem when I'm just trying to do solid, clean business. You know? It just it just you know, I knew there's a better way to do it. And one way is have these people reaching out to me, not me reaching out to them.

Steve: What was the one violation? How much was it for? We ended up paying

Craig: I mean, at first, it was gonna be, like, 15 or something.

Steve: But we ended up paying, like, 25 paid

Craig: her, like, $2,500. Paid an attorney $500. So it wasn't it wasn't as bad when we settled it down. Obviously, my lawyer handled the negotiating. Yeah.

But it was just a kick in the stomach.

Steve: Well, there's a loss of sleep. This is

Craig: Exactly.

Steve: I don't know what your lawsuit's like, but, like, when I get it's like, you know, Steve and, Jane Jane Doe Trang. Right?

Craig: Yeah.

Steve: Like, everyone every everyone in the company and their spouses. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yep.

Andrew: And I've I mean, I've doubled the same in these of mine. I've dealt with being a do being a digital advertiser and having your entire business manager get hacked and all your clients' credit cards have thousands of dollars of ad spend being run on it overnight and trying to deal with that headache. So, you know, it it it it's sometimes those harder less those hardest lessons are what lead you to your best ideas. I think that's one of the because he hit me up. I've been doing digital marketing for, you know, my entire life.

My first job out of grad school was at digital marketing agency where I was Out of high school. At out of well, out of out of I went to grad school.

Steve: Oh, I

Andrew: grad school. Business. My first job was at digital marketing, see, because they were just like, you have an MBA, so you can probably do something whether it be sales or whatever. But they ended up having me working on the back end of an SEO, which at the time, like, this was, you know, twenty years ago, SEO was the gold mine. It was like the gold rush of of marketing was SEO.

It was like Google Ads was just kinda starting. There was no Facebook ads really. So I was doing SEO, and I was doing it for lawyers or local dentists, landscapers, things like that. Transitioning to to working in house for a software company. So now I was managing tens of thousands of dollars a month in advertising budgets for Google Ads, and, doing their SEO and all their graphic design and things like that.

Ended up leaving there and becoming the marketing director for a theme park in Orlando, which was pretty fun and different, you know, doing everything from, like, their not only all their digital marketing and social media marketing, but all their brochures and all the graphic design and everything. And then event you know? But one of my mentors came to me and was like, hey. I'm starting a new startup, and I want you to come be take that leap of faith to just quit your cushy job and and go do that. So I did that.

I took that leap, and that ended up being where I first learned about Facebook ads. This is probably 2016, 2017 where it was, like, really the wild, wild west. Like, we were running digital products, so we're just selling PDFs through a ClickFunnel Yeah. And generating $30,000 a day in revenue with no cost of goods sold and very low overhead with just a bunch of college bros who are learning Facebook ads from teaching each other and just throws at the wall. So it was really a crash course drinking from the fire hose, how to learn digital ads in that sense.

And, you you know, we scaled that business. We worked with several tons of fitness influencers, creating digital products and digital courses for them, then scaling them on ads. And that led me to start my own leave there and start my own e commerce.

Steve: I miss those days.

Andrew: Yeah. I know. I didn't do yeah.

Steve: Those are the days you could target, income Yep. Number of children Yep. Age of the kids.

Andrew: Household information. Yeah.

Steve: Everything. They have everything. Kinda cars they like to drive. Yeah. Try I think what are the other things that we had on the

Andrew: audiences really worked really well. So if you had, like, a list of buyers, you could build a lookalike audience off of that, and then that would just convert like like gangbusters. So if you had an email list and you were a marketer who was in the email game, then when you jumped into this new world, you could just crush. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So you basically could do just about anything. Only thing you couldn't do was ethnicity. Mhmm. Right? Even even, gender, age.

And there was one that, story of, like because you had to upload at least 20 people Yep. To Target. Yep. Someone uploaded a list of 20 people, but, like, only one was real. Yeah.

Like, is this just targeting one person? Wow.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, it was wrong back then. And what you could say and say in advertising was a lot broader. Really, you know, Mark Zuckerberg going in front of Congress a few years ago, and that whole thing really changed, how they did things. But back then, for it to be additional marketer, you know, you could come up with anything and sell it.

And the cost of advertising was so cheap. Like, for actually, like, pennies on the dollar of what you would you'd pay to run an ad now

Steve: because there

Andrew: was so much less competition. No one wanted to take the time to learn how to run an ads manager, which is like learning another language. You know? It's not just it's not very easy and seamless. They make it that barrier to entry for a reason.

So Yeah. So we were doing that. Let me start my own ecommerce agency. And, up until the that there's this big iOS update in the, you know, 2021 maybe. But up until then, I was spending about $30,000 a day, of of clients' money across just on Facebook ads and then probably another 100,000 across all the other ad platforms.

Snapchat, LinkedIn, TikTok, Google Ads, YouTube ads. Until then he came in, I was, said he wanted to come up with help with inbound. So I was just helping him helping Craig out, like, my buddy I went to high school with, and he needs some help. And so I took my brain of, like, how I convince someone to maybe take out their wallet and buy a $5,000 high ticket course from an influencer and what I would need to do to set that funnel up, but just to set that up to acquire a a motivated seller.

Steve: So you so you reached out to Drew. K. Like, you need help with marketing. By this time, were you spending any money on marketing or you're just cold calling?

Craig: No. We so we completely switched to inbound, but we're just doing mail.

Steve: But prior to getting your Yeah. It was just ridiculous.

Craig: It was cold calling text.

Steve: Alright. So that's what so then you go to inbound. So you you direct mail. You reach out to Drew. Mhmm.

Hey. Like, help me generate leads.

Craig: Yeah. Because I knew I wanted mail quality leads. They're very good quality, but I there's no consistency in it. And I didn't know too much about it either. I didn't know, hey.

You gotta spend, like, ton of money, and the calls just come in whenever they come in. And I knew from what me and him like, I knew what he was doing. And I knew that he could get leads, like, on a better consistency level, like, one a day, two a day, whatever it was, in the same quality that that an inbound male lead would get me. So, and we just created the the platform and launched it for me, ran it for a few years, and then put it out to the public.

Steve: K. So then you were I guess, was it initially, like, a lead house, or were you, like, you're so focused on your wholesaling side?

Craig: Yeah.

Steve: Because they were they were guessing there was a point from, like, hey. Let's run Facebook ads

Andrew: Mhmm.

Steve: To, like, hey. We have something here.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It was we we ran ads, Google and Facebook for for my own wholesale business. Uh-huh.

Steve: We

Craig: probably did that for

Andrew: Two years?

Craig: Yeah. I said eighteen months, two years, something like that. And it worked really well, and it was getting consistent results. And a lot of these sellers weren't ever talking to anybody before. The way the algorithm was built, it was kinda looking for people beyond sell my house fast.

It was looking for people with maybe a funeral home or they're applying for four or five jobs in Minnesota. You know? We knew that, like, okay. Now we're we're targeting people that have a real story and real motivation. And, yeah, I was able to, you know, do the same volume, if not a little better, but I didn't have five cold callers to manage either.

Andrew: When we looked at the spending, like, a $10,000 budget for a direct mail campaign and how long that took to pay itself back versus putting $10,000 into social media advertising, with the how we built up the system. We would get it back within thirty days versus six months probably. Yeah. Because that direct may mail may sit on their desk for, you know, four months, and then they finally call give you a call or whatever or write be where this is people seeing the ad and that contact information is in your CRM within five seconds of them seeing your ad.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So, how many deals were you guys doing a a month? You're like, hey. Like, we should probably offer this other people.

Craig: Three to five, but there was no overhead. It was just that.

Andrew: And we we found that, like, we just talking to his he was talking to his peers, and that's really what gave me the idea was it was like, man, I'm talking to guys who are spending $350 per lead on peep these PPL companies. And so that led me to go start researching what else was out there. And it was like a lot of PPL providers. And if you're in the industry, you probably know the names of the the companies I'm talking about. But we went in and, like, started doing that ourselves and seeing what their customer experience was like.

And we get a lead, and it would already be one that we already had. So it's like, okay. We have to do this replacement process. But then to replace that lead, they give you, like, store credit back to their platform. So they're giving you lead that you already have or that maybe has been already resold, resold, resold, and then you have to go back and keep using them because they have you now in this, like, store credit cycle.

And so they kinda keep you stuck there. And then I'm just thinking, like, well, when with our system, we generate the lead. This person fills out a form through one of our one of our, custom funnels we build, and we can contact that person within five seconds. I'm thinking about their process must be that they generate that lead, and then it uploads to their CRM, then goes live on their site. And then there's almost like an auction, like eBay, of wholesalers bidding on that.

How much time goes by from when that person fills it out to where someone wins the auction, pays for it, and then contacts them. And I'm like, if you you're being in the business, like, speed to lead is way too important. Right. And with that, the ability of digital marketing, that PPL model makes absolutely no sense to me. For that speed to lead to be so such a a massive gap between.

So ours is instantaneous. The lead goes directly from, the seller's brain Mhmm. Their information and typing it out directly to our client, and then we do that exclusively. We only work with one per market because when we realized working with these PPL companies, there's six guys in Tucson, Arizona bidding and they're bidding more against each other. Mhmm.

One person gets it, but maybe that person then has contacted one of those other wholesalers, through some other form of advertising or whatever it might be or maybe a cold caller. Now you have all six of them showing up to that house for an appointment to Yeah. To look at the house. And we're like, this just doesn't make sense. And then someone returns that lead, and it gets put back into their system.

And the next someone someone else comes and buys it. So we're like, there's a big problem there. And then I think a lot of got people is just acknowledge gap into where me running ads and what I can do just from a skill set perspective of, you know, another marketer probably in this industry. And I'm not claiming to say I'm the best, but just with the knowledge I have, like, everyone a lot of people can play basketball. So you have the jerseys up here, but, like, not everyone can, you know, even be on the bench of of the the warriors.

Right? There's a lot of people who maybe are great marketers themselves. And then when you go to get fulfilled, for your campaign, might be fulfilled by someone in The Philippines who just has some some basic knowledge of how these ad platforms work, where I've been under the fire for the last twenty years Yeah. Spending the money, been through the updates, been through all the changes, and understand how important the data is, how important data works. So, I use all that to build out these these campaigns that normally are being fulfilled probably at a very low level of importance in the people's mind.

And I've leveraged the data to really focus on, like, what's important to to us. And when I was building this out for ourselves, we want someone who's highly motivated, who's going through some type of drastic situation in their life. Yeah. So many other marketers are focusing on MLS data. The data is focused on the property data, MLS data, preforeclosure list, things like that.

But that data is never gonna be probably accurate and up to date by the time it gets out. You know, how long has that person been in pre foreclosure before it finally gets that data, gets populated, and gets input made public. On top of that so I knew that that was one thing. So we wanna focus on the condition of the seller, not not the property, but the seller. So I've trained our pixel to find people whose credit scores may be dropping.

Maybe they're applying for personal loans. Maybe they're researching, final expense insurance or things like that because they are about to lose a loved one, and maybe that's going to lead to them inheriting a home. Maybe they're going through a divorce. They start researching divorce attorneys. So all these signals of what the the seller is going through.

And then the last thing we worry about is if they're a homeowner.

Steve: Yeah.

Craig: So There's

Andrew: so many other people that's flipped the other way around.

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Click the link in the description and book a call with my team to see how we can help you install a self managing sales team this week. So the thing that, I heard Craig Craig mention earlier. Right? Like, they're shopping at a funeral home

Andrew: Mhmm.

Steve: Or they're applying for jobs in other states. And what you're saying right now in regards to their credit just dropping Mhmm. What I'm hearing a lot of is tension. Yep. Life circumstances, reasons to sell your house.

Yep. Right? Sell your house fast. Yep. Versus, what I see traditionally.

You know, when I'm on when when I was doing Google Yep. It was just, like, you know, sell my house, sell my house fast, cash buyer, blah blah blah. There's nothing like earth shattering on that side. Yep. On the Facebook side, it was generally, like, when I was running it.

I mentioned how people do it. It was, like, ugly houses. Right? And, like, you know, their house Mhmm. Faster cash, or it looked like a like a distressed older couple.

Mhmm. Yeah. That's the ads I was running. Yep. But it sounds like for you guys, it's not about message in the ads.

Mhmm. It's about targeting the right audience. Yep.

Andrew: And then you pair that with the right messaging. If you compare the right person

Steve: with the right The messaging is still similar.

Andrew: Yeah. We may focus specifically on what those people are going through. Like, we may have someone who's a a a part like a talking head being like, I was I was I just lost my mother, and I inherited her home, and it was across the country. And I didn't know what I was going to do. I couldn't even afford to go look at this house and deal with the burden of it.

But, you know, House Offer three sixty five, which is our brand that we run our ads through, was able to help me. They played all the Coz of Visa. It's like a testimonial of solving the the problem. This is how this problem was solved for the person who's facing that problem versus just a we buy houses fast or we buy ugly houses with a picture of an ugly house. Then relating to them on that specific emotional level and hearing it from a real person versus a marketer, a person speaking to them versus a marketer speaking to them, is one thing.

Because when I run ecommerce ads, I'm not gonna expect for someone to pull out their wallet and buy something from just a static image that says this will help you lose weight. Right? But if it's someone with a before and after picture telling their story about how the easy the program was, how awesome it was, how well it works for them, it's so so much more of a an emotional connection you build with that with that seller. So, you know, we like to focus on what what the person is going through. If we're doing a good job when we call someone, similar to the call we saw you take, when you're talking to a seller, what they're listening to, what they're going through.

We want them to be ready to tell us their their life story and what what unfortunate events have led them to this decision to sell their house.

Steve: Yeah.

Andrew: If they're just curious to get an offer, then that's not a lead to us, you know, which which a lot of other people would consider that a lead.

Steve: And what you're alluding to is we did a call YouTube video, which we'll put a link later on about was a call that I jumped on Mhmm. Steve Morales and were able to buy a house over the phone. So we'll get to that later on. Yeah. So my first question is, how do you pull out this intention?

Where are you getting this data? Because this is something that's readily available. Right? So, for example, we had someone on the on the show months ago or last last couple months. We're talking about, like, can't just go out and buy data people with five eighty credit score.

Yeah. Yeah. Because if I could

Craig: Mhmm.

Steve: That's what I would do. Right? Yep. I would look at someone that went from a six twenty to five eighty, just target them all and just follow them Yep. All over Facebook.

Yep. I would do, but I can't go buy that data. Yep. So, like, what are you guys doing?

Andrew: Yeah. So without giving away too much of the secret sauce, one is when you're doing creative testing and, like, the pixel is really important. So, you know, we have we have every company who's ever advertised has a pixel, and it basically makes it for the I always love this example is if you've ever been told your buddy, hey, I'm I need to buy a new lawnmower, and then you go on your phone, you see lawnmower ads. Right? Frequencies.

It picks up all those things. Yep. Yep. So ours has been just trained for the years of of through that. And we do is pairing the pixel with you're sending the pixel to data to the pixel.

What you wanna do is send the correct data because all data is not created equal. So if we're running an ad to a pixel that's for people who maybe are, going about to go through a divorce or divorce pixel, And we have a now funnel, which prescribes them a journey of questions they have to answer. And that first question is, are you getting divorced in the next six months? And if they say yes, then we send a signal to that pixel that you said, you did a good job. You found the right person.

If it says, no. I'm not going to force the excellence, then that person cannot continue. And it says, no. You did a bad job. Eventually, it says, oh, all these people who said yes also have been making these Google searches also have this credit score, also have this based off how we can build that funnel out with the questions.

So now we've now trained the pixel. And then from that way, then that pixel goes into becoming a a home buying pixel to where we have that funnel just answering questions like, is this house currently listed on the MLS? Anyone who says yes is not allowed to continue. That way, only no's get through. We're basically training that pixel based off how we build a funnel of questions to weed down to the exact persona we want.

And then we've spent hundreds of thousands of our own dollars to train that pixel before we ever go launch it for for, for actually acquiring homes.

Steve: Yeah. This is absolutely brilliant. So, I mean, the way you're talking about training a pixel is like training a dog. Yep. Good dog, bad dog.

That's really it. But you're you're you're you're training the pixel for multiple different, instances. Yep. And, like, I I like this approach. It's super simple because, like, I'm thinking, like

Andrew: Mhmm.

Steve: Which data did you buy and, like, how do you pair? But it's like, no. Like, you just told it. Yep. Go find these people.

Yep. And when you find them, yes. I mean and they're not the people. No. And then just keep finding more and more of those people.

Andrew: And that's it it is a literally we all talk about AI as an AI machine. It's an AI dog. It wants to be it wants a treat. But if you never tell it if it's doing a good job or not on a granular level and you're always giving it the treat every time a lead comes through, it's never going to understand the actual type of lead you want. What is it?

What is a good lead? So we make it so this dog needs to be able to go win the whatever winsmiths or dog show before we ever start telling it to go find this property.

Steve: Yeah. And then I guess because you guys are working with clients around the country

Andrew: Mhmm.

Steve: Pair this with just different locations. Yeah. How that works?

Andrew: Yeah. So we realized that, like, when we talked about a lot of the problems were there was, people working for the same multiple people in the same market. Like, you have a person you're buying leads from and they're also selling leads to your competitor. And we're like, that's that's B. S.

Like, we want one person in each market to actually just dominate that market. We only want to work with the best of the best. And we're going to help that person become the a one company in their market so that they can expand and expand and expand to where their nationwide home home, homebuyers. But so that's why we only work with one person for each market because we don't want that pixel to also get confused. We customize this funnel for you and your buy box.

So if you and you both have different buy boxes for properties, but we're using the one pixel in that market, we will wanna train it to do the one thing.

Steve: Yeah.

Andrew: So we in order to do our best, we really only work with one person per market, so our services are are exclusive to interesting.

Steve: So then I guess, pixel, is it one pixel that you service whole country? Mhmm. Fascinating. And then So,

Andrew: like, all ships rise together. Think about how much data is going into it in a day versus if you wanna start your own Facebook pixel to just do it in Phoenix, you'd be getting maybe, you know, a thou maybe a few 100. Yes. Good good signals and a few 100 bad signals. And we're talking thousands and thousands and thousands a day of of training that pixel.

Steve: Yeah. I think probably just so people understand further what a pixel is. Maybe you can just explain in a retargeting sense, like where people that are listening that aren't familiar pixels, where they've experienced it. Yeah. Day to day.

Andrew: If you've ever been to a website and added a product to a cart and then you see an ad that says, hey, you left this in your cart and it's the exact product. That's because that pixel not only tagged you when you visit the site, it tracked every site you went on, how much time you spent on each page, and then whatever action you did beyond that. So usually set up events, like a site visit is one event, and then we work them all the way down to, like, a purchase. You you want purchases, but there's also people who initiate checkout, who, you know, start entering their cart info, people who add to cart, people who just click that add to cart button. Right?

So we can organize user behavior based off each one of those events and run this ad to add to carts, saying, hey. These people added this product to cart. Let's run an ad to them saying they left that in their cart. And then you take that purchaser data and you exclude that data because, technically everyone who also purchased added it to cart. So if that's ever avenue, that's the beauty of these these pixels.

And now it's as crazy as people think they have like an FBI agent not listening to them because they're just seeing ads for things they're talking about and thinking about. And it's because these algorithms have gotten so so advanced over the years.

Steve: And and they're really, really good with intention. You know what you wanna buy before you know you wanna buy. Yep. It's based off other

Andrew: Yeah. Based on your other your other activity. If every single person who is about to buy a dog does these five searches and does these things, then they know you're about to buy a dog, and they still showing you ads for Chewy.

Steve: Yeah. Chewy for you decided to go do it. You're just you've done all the other things that indicate you're gonna do this. They're just advertising that with you. And I think another thing just to for everyone who's listening to understand further, like, you say pixel.

Yep. I say pixel, and that's, like, a marketing term.

Andrew: Yes.

Steve: For everyone else, they might just refer to it as cookies.

Andrew: Yeah. Cookies. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Algorithm. Yep. And the cookie is what a pixel puts on you. You get you get a place with a cookie. It's like a virus.

Think of it as like you caught you caught it. And now this business is tracking you with that with that cookie. Yeah. Cookies and, pixels. And it's really just a fancy word for a little bit of script that is on a

Steve: website. Right.

Andrew: It's it's really simple that that feeds an algorithm.

Steve: Yeah. So when when when you guys are like, should I accept these cookies or reject these cookies? It's the reason why we reject these cookies.

Andrew: Yeah. You should reject them. But as an advertiser, I hope you don't. I hope you say yes. Like, cooking me as much as possible because it makes our job easier.

But, but, yeah, the good news is when we feel like we're just we're helping we're we are in turn helping, you know, people who are real estate investors. But our focus is helping people out of tough situations. And our real estate investors are just the people the vehicle to help these people, the solution. Right? So, you know, by solving our real estate investors problems, we love it because we're also solving a lot of problems for these people who may not be able to afford or have the timeline to work with a realtor.

And this home may be the only asset they have that can help them through paying off that medical bill or moving to that place out of state or escaping a tough situation. So we that's really what we're focused on is if we are helping on helping these people out of their tough situation they're going through in life, then that will in turn help our our clients if we're first focused on solving these people's problems.

Steve: Okay. So you're talking about rewarding pixel that you've trained. Typically when you hear pixels, I'm thinking I'm hearing Facebook pixel. Mhmm. You guys also do Google.

Yep.

Andrew: Yep. Google tracking scripts. Yeah. We do TikTok ads. We've done we do it a little bit a little bit at all.

If there's if there's motivated sales there, we try to advertise there. But mostly what we do is is, I'd say, Facebook and Instagram just because, that's where your people are and the the cost is is is there. If we're doing, like, Google search advertising, we can obviously, you get great people, really, really high qualities, but it's gonna be so much more expensive. We can get the same exact person in through our system on this platform that's gonna be cheaper.

Steve: Yeah. How much cheaper?

Andrew: I'd say on average, if you're going through where another provider or a PPL provider, you'll get it probably at least 60% cheaper. It's like we're the we're the wholesaler who's selling the product the the products to Costco. You're going straight to the source. You're going the seller is going straight to your CRM versus someone in the middle marking that up.

Steve: Yeah. So it's interesting to hear because I assume that you guys are doing, Google based off just my, like, a Yeah. Preliminary conversation with with Steven. But so, again, going back to what we were saying earlier. So Steven Morales, a friend of mine, he's been on the show before, and I was on his show, I guess, now it's been two, three months.

Mhmm. And that's someone that, you know, we did a lot of stuff together during close Olympics during, you know, COVID was kinda starting, in 2020. We did close Olympics together. Competed together. I thought he was the only other one that was really good.

RJ base was pretty good too, but everyone else it was clear it was clear we were the three best. Anyway, that's that's the point. Yeah. I believe. But, you know, Steve was like, hey.

Like, you wanna jump on, deal desk and, like, we'll call some leads together? And I was like, you know, I'm out of business. Right? Like, I do sales training and AI. I'm not in the house buying business anymore.

He's like, oh, okay. Well, I mean, do you think you could do? I was like, of course, I can still do it. Mhmm. But then come on.

And so I jumped on, and then he was telling me about you guys. Like, yeah. There's Lead House three sixty five. No one really knows about them, but these these are great.

Andrew: Alright. Well, we'll find out.

Steve: Mhmm. Right? And so I go first, and I make one dial, first dial, talks to the lady, and sign contract. Right? And I think it was, like, forty four years, fifty minutes.

So that was a that was so what you're saying, that was a Facebook lead from earlier that day.

Andrew: Yep.

Steve: That was a one call close. Because, typically, that's not how it works with Facebook. Mhmm. Typically, Facebook has a longer cash conversion cycle. Right?

Like Google, they fill it out. Mhmm. They're ready if you can you know, they're generally ready that day. Facebook, like, they're interested Mhmm. But they're still gathering information.

And maybe it's thirty days, maybe sixty, maybe it's a hundred and twenty days. Facebook for for us and our organization was never, like, that day. They filled out they're ready to sign. But not only was she ready to go that day, Steven got someone else on the phone. Right?

Because this deal does we're doing over the course of two hours. So I think, like like I said, like, forty to forty five minutes, I lock it up the contract over the phone, and then he jumps on, talks to one person. I think, like, thirty, forty five minutes later, she signs a contract. Those are just I'm gonna say just, but those are Facebook leads from that day. Yep.

That's insane to me. Mhmm.

Craig: Probably from that hour.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Andrew: And and he and, you know, he he was the one giving the feedback originally when we built out the system of, like, dude, this is awesome. I don't think there's anything really this doing this specific. And I think that you're 100% right. You know, the seller is the seller. We can get.

Steve: That lady needed to sell.

Andrew: That lady did need to sell.

Steve: I didn't like I wanna sell. Like that lady is like

Craig: She was crying to you.

Andrew: Yeah. And if you think about, you know, that person could go on Google and say, I need to sell my house because she's in the situation and that is intent based. Right? I think about the Google pages. Sorry, Google ads and why you can get such high quality leads is because it's it's that intent based solution, problem solution.

You put in a problem, it gives you a solution, which is an app an advertisement to someone who will provide the situation just like old school enough to think about the yellow pages. You need a pizza restaurant. You type go to pee. There's a list of pizza restaurants. You need to sell your house.

Here's a list of the people who will buy your house. We we're Facebook ads could be more like a billboard where there's a million people driving down the highway and they're seeing it and they're seeing it. And the people who have that problem call in. Except when they click our ad, they have to go through this prescribed journey that weeds out probably 75% of people who are just interested and don't have a real

Steve: Qualification process, you're saying, is it even more stringent qualification process through the Facebook marketing.

Andrew: And and that not only prequalifies that lead for you based off your buy box. We have some guys who have things as specific as we don't want any to buy any homes that have pools, and they must be in these ZIP codes or guys who just want every single thing, whether it's a mobile home, townhome. Like, we can be as broad or specific. And that that journey does two things. It qualifies that lead for you, so it fits your buy box, but it also trains our pixel specifically what your campaign is looking for.

And all everyone's campaigns all over the country are training the master pixel of who motivated people.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, that's what I was thinking. There's two benefits here.

Andrew: Yep.

Steve: Higher quality lead and it's a better trained pixel. Yep. So it serves two purposes.

Andrew: And and our pixel that's in Wisconsin is is aiding the pixel that the client in Phoenix and vice versa. Everyone wins wins when they're, the more people we have, it on the market, which is why we are buying We are using our pixel nationwide except for the the the places where we have clients for our own portfolio. And so we know we know it works. So, you know, if people are, are, ever struggling, we know that, like, it's it's definitely not the leads problem for a lot of the time. Yeah.

The operator error sometimes.

Steve: So if you guys wanna are curious, we'll put a link in the description of the of the call I did with, myself, Steven Morales, and, Lead House three sixty five. And I think it'll show a couple different things. So, a, you guys can see the lead quality. Like, listen to it for yourself. But, also, you know, you might enjoy listening to my call and Steven's call.

Maybe maybe not.

Andrew: Free game right there. We were we were like, dang. These guys are good.

Craig: I think, you didn't talk to her about the house at all. You you were on the phone with her for an hour, and it was it was more listening and but the conversation was about her. Yeah. And that's how all these conversations last night, we're at we're at dinner, and we had we saw a lead came in for a client of ours. The seller's, son got killed.

Harder, like, whatever. And just things like that of a person willing to say that information on a funnel, what they're going through is just I mean, it's insane. It's it's it's a horrible situation, but, clearly, she can't go to the house anymore. You know? It's it's too much emotional distress.

She wants to just get rid of it and, you know, be done and move on to the next chapter. So, we run into some really, like, gut wrenching situations a lot. And, yeah, these these people need help.

Andrew: And if you have a VA calling them and asking them how many bedrooms the house has, it's it's a lot it's a lot different than when they approach it the way you approach it, where you just you I don't even think you got any information at the house. You had the address so you can look up some comps, but you didn't ask her anything about the property or the condition of the property if it needed a roof. You just were like, get it to the point, Bill, you're building trust with her into where she wanted to work with you, and you made her believe that you were someone who would help her out of the situation and truly cared. And I think that's a big knowledge gap in this industry that, was awesome to watch you watch you do that.

Steve: Well, thank you. Yeah. I mean, it was very it it was, what's the word I'm looking for? It was, awesome to have that opportunity, really. Right?

Like, because doing a live call with Steven, because I don't know him. Yeah. Right? So it was it was an it was an amazing opportunity to, a, get to experience your leads, your lead quality firsthand, but also get to exhibit because, like, I think there's still, like because I'm not buying houses so much. It was like, you know, like, does he really know what he's talking about?

So, like, hey. Like, you know, I kinda know what I'm talking about here. So, again, we'll we'll have that link in the description below. The other thing too, you guys had some adversity. Your accounts got hacked?

Andrew: Yeah. This was actually did my my ecommerce agency. He was saying, like, he was talking about his loss lawsuits, he said, on the real estate side. I mean, I had a ecommerce agency and, I think it was 2022. All of our accounts got hacked by someone in Russia.

And, you know, I have probably 30 clients, ecommerce clients, all spending somewhere between 5 to $20,000 a day in ads. And, you know, just these campaigns being launched, everyone getting locked out of the ads manager, Campaigns being launched with $100,000 lifetime budgets, just maxing out every credit card and backup payment method on our clients' accounts. And waking up that morning and just having to deal with the communicating with our clients about what happened and fall on the sword from that and then dealing with Meta. And luckily, it was not a unique thing to us. It had happened to thousands of agencies in The United States, and really led Meta to really start doing stronger two factor and face authentication.

Steve: So that exploitation against Meta? Yep. It wasn't anything you did.

Andrew: No. It was a meta it was a meta issue. The but also it led us to really think about our own security of our company and what we could do and crazy learning experience like him of, like, making sure all your employees that two factor thing and having, fail safes and backups and who has access to things. Really important. And, so, like, just all learning lessons you learn the hard way.

Sometimes the most important lessons are the ones you have to learn the hard way.

Steve: Oh, for sure. And then other thing too, we're gonna talk about, cold calling and why that why we think the industry is is not gonna make it in 2026. Before we do that, you guys so you guys are still actively buying houses.

Andrew: Mhmm.

Craig: Commercial houses, portfolios, dirt. We do we do everything.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, how many houses or how many properties, I guess, more general than how many properties are you guys buying right now?

Craig: I mean, contracting. We have some partners too. I would say probably five to 10 a month. And then, keeping maybe about three, four months.

Steve: K. So contracting five or six, but keeping three or four. Is that am I hearing that correctly? Yeah. You're buying to keep more than you're buying to wholesale.

Craig: Well, at this point, the the marketing's dialed in.

Steve: You You know what

Craig: I mean? These sellers are coming to us with with problems. All we have to do is put an agreement together. We do a lot of subject to as well, you know, take over. So, they just want a couple grand, and the thing cash flow is $200 a month then.

Not not wholesaling it. Somebody else. I'm keeping it. That's me. You know?

But also we, I'm glad you brought that up. We we since launched our, PPC for commercial real estate. Estate. So that and we locked up a a commercial building, mixed use three unit in Downtown St. Louis a few weeks ago.

So we can do the same thing for home sellers as we can for commercial investors. Interesting.

Steve: Yeah.

Andrew: And what we found so far is we don't think there's anyone that many people out there running ads specifically targeting commercial. I don't know. They land. So, that's really we're we're we're we're killing it ourselves doing it and we're we're ready to start rolling that out to to to investors.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So buying, contracting, four to six, keeping three or four, interesting in this market. So you guys are, I guess, bullish on the real

Craig: estate market. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, since the beginning of time, it's always been what people of wealth is gold and and land, real estate. So, yeah, in the market we're in right now, I'm a trader as well.

So I see it every day. But I I know as long as you buy right real estate, it always goes up.

Steve: Only buy right. And that's that's the key qualifier. So you're also a trader. What does that mean?

Craig: Day trade.

Steve: Day trade? Yep. Are you gonna have enough going on here with this? I mean, I stay on the computer all

Craig: I'm gonna be on the computer all day anyways, but, it's something I've always been into. I've been doing that for four years, but it's nice to see, like, the trends. You know, when people get scared, certain certain, like, gold, for instance, always goes up. And, you know, you've you've probably seen the price of gold, what it was twelve months ago to what it is now. You know?

And it's gone up over a thousand dollars. So it's you know? We can relate that to also the price of real estate pre COVID, post COVID. So, yeah, it's it's nice to see trends, because it all comes back to the consumer, and, you know, we've gotta make a position. Buy a house 30¢ on the dollar.

Buy, you know, a gold bar 30¢ on the dollar. So yep.

Steve: And then, one thing I I'm seeing here in the notes, AI made all this possible.

Andrew: Yeah. I'd say really just with with the people don't realize that these Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Google algorithms, their algorithms and the way they access, we can access them as advertisers is how it makes all of this possible. You know, AI takes all of this data and organizes all of this user behavior for us. So the same way, like, you can you can pull a list based off an idea you have all that. Every single list you could ever think of is already uploaded to Facebook.

Facebook's been around since 2005 maybe, and it's been tracking every single thing we've been doing for the first twenty years. Every person's

Steve: been born.

Andrew: Every person has been born and everything they did for the first, I'd say, fifteen years, It was tracking everything. Since then, now it's tracking about 85% of everything we do just because of the the changes. There's a big iOS update in 02/2001 where basically, if you guys I'm sure you'll have seen it. If you open up an app on your phone, it will say, do you allow this app to track? And that basically just says it meant to track your behavior on that app.

So before that, though, like, no matter what you did, if you've ever visited a website, if you go to nike.com, every single person there got a pixel from Nike. And now every single thing they ever did online after that gets fed into the pixel Nike pixel that goes to Meta. And then you gotta think about how many different businesses advertise on that platform. Every single one of them is pixeling every user, although it's funneling into the same data warehouse. So, sure, like, they don't tell you, like, here's a list of all the people that, hit this criteria.

Instead, like you said, we target based off of what we tell the algorithm we're looking for, and then we train that. And we tell it when it's doing a good job and a bad job. And eventually, it just goes to the list that we kind of gave it on the back end. And it won't never give us access to it, but it will allow us to advertise to those.

Steve: Right. You'll never get their names or email address.

Andrew: Yep. The actual hard data. But the access to advertise to them.

Steve: Let me clear. Twenty twenty one, you're saying with the iOS Yep. Update.

Andrew: That was the first one that was specifically about cookies and tracking. And we have one we're dealing with right now.

Steve: What do you mean?

Andrew: Yep. Well, the new one is, this update that was gonna lead us to talk about cold calling is we found that

Steve: Also hang on

Andrew: for us

Craig: before we

Steve: get to that one. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Because I want AI to make it all as possible.

Yeah. So, like, there's some things that, Facebook is pushing right now where, the the messaging sounds like we wanna get rid of marketing agents. Mhmm. We wanna use AI. Yeah.

So, basically, like, you show us what your product is. Mhmm. Like a like, your a link to, like, your checkout page Sure. Or your landing page and then, like, your, marketing collateral. Yep.

Right? And then we'll just take care of everything else. Yeah. So they're trying to AI all of this. Yeah.

And I can say, for myself as a marketer, I'm frustrated

Andrew: Yeah.

Steve: Only because whenever because they're doing all the AI stuff. Because whenever someone clicks on my ad and they don't buy or even if they do buy, let's say they have a scheduled call with someone on my team. Mhmm. They're still showing Yeah. Every other similar ad.

Yep. Everyone that's, like, clicked on my site. Right? So, like, every other sales training organization or every AI organization is not getting vendors. Yeah.

Is getting a cheap opportunity Mhmm. To to market to my Yep. People that click on my ad. Yep. So, anyway, I just wanna touch on that.

Andrew: Do you think about how bad it is if someone's the type of person just willing to cash out for for their home and, you click it you click an ad and you fill out one form. And if you don't contact that person within ten seconds or the first half hour, whatever it is, how many different other competitors and how many forms they're filling out. And then

Steve: Yeah.

Andrew: They get that data gets pulled to a cold call team and they're being cold called. So, you know, speed delete is incredibly important in the the industry, which is why it's like, why would you want that lead to sit in the CRM of a PPL company? You want the you know, you you need to contact the person right away because just the same way as that industry, that's every industry. Yeah.

Steve: Well, so

Andrew: you start shopping for one thing, you're gonna see every option there is

Steve: Right.

Andrew: As an advertiser goes.

Steve: Yeah. You're looking at, cars. Look at one car ad. You have five more car ads. Yep.

Yeah. That's interesting, though. Like, you you kinda connect this dot for me. I I haven't realized it. Important to speedily here because, like, on Google, if they fill out one form, they're generally gonna fill, like, five or six other forms.

Craig: Yep. They're all right there.

Steve: They're all right there. They're all there. Well, that's the reason why we have our AI call them, like, instantly. Yeah. Yep.

So it's proactive defense. But now on Facebook yeah. Now because there's Facebook's using feed of more

Andrew: Yep.

Steve: Cash for your house ads, once they fill out yours, they're gonna fill out they're gonna see a whole bunch of more in their face. Percent. Yeah. Because I never thought about that with Facebook, but, yeah, that's the case now too. Yep.

Yep. Yep.

Andrew: This is why speed lead's so important and why we strive to be like, if as soon as this are we generate a lead for a user, we want it to be in the hands of our client as fast as possible. And hopefully they have the processes and systems to be able to contact. When you talk about your your your like the solutions you guys are building and providing for that. And if you don't, then you probably be the best part partner because maybe it is should be cold calling or whatever it is because those process is so important. It's only becoming more and more important.

People's attention spans are getting shorter and, the solutions are flying at their face. So if you're the first solution, you better be the the right solution for them, or they're gonna go with somebody else.

Steve: Right. And then yeah. So you're saying, iOS is making things even more difficult now.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. We released, to our clients, we put out, like, a memo a couple weeks ago about, the new update. It's prescreening unknown numbers that you don't have saved in your phone or doesn't have you know, recognize that you talking to that person. And it'll just send them right to voice mail.

Or say, hey. Please state your name, and then we'll see if we can connect you. So a lot of people don't even know that they're being called. So we're just trying to get our our clients ahead of the game that, hey. Try to hit them up at text.

Text them maybe a minute before you call them or, send them an email too because a lot of those other forms of communication that you have when a lead comes in are gonna be more important now because that person probably prescreened an unrecognized number and

Steve: hard to get in touch with. Do we need data? What percentage? I have, like, the latest iOS update.

Andrew: I know that I dealt with this a lot because back when the first iOS update really shook the industry in 2021 was about cookies and data, and it made it so just iPhone users originally with the latest operating system, it was like they were slowly being tracked less and less and less. When we found to by the time it fully rolled out, it was 40%. And that's just the iPhone users. About 40% of people were not being tracked the way you were able to track them, you know, a year prior. And so it couldn't tell if someone added that product to cart or if they even purchased, which is why they may continue to see your ads even after you purchased from you because they've chosen to opt out of that tracking.

So with that, let us to build a a platform to where we had this massive hard coded hard database of people. Talking like, these massive data providers have been collecting data from government in the post office and everything. And somehow connected an IP address, and we could cross reference an event that came into a pixel with an IP address and say, this is Steven. Even though he stopped at our tracking, this purchase event was him. So now we can actually have our pixel work.

We built this whole software for that. So this is kind of what I do is I see these shifts in the industry and try to find solutions for them. This is what I feel like is the next one is inbound is gonna be so much more important than than, like, specifically cold calling for this for this industry because we're gonna have pretty soon we're gonna have 40% of people not answering the phone because of iOS update. And what happens is the industry is the trend is Android is going to do the same thing. They're going to realize they're like, hey, people are flocking to iPhone and Apple because of this specific software that is improving the customer experience.

They love that they're not getting 10 potential cold calls or loan offers or refi offers from random numbers a day. So Android is going to follow suit and now you're going to have, you know, probably left with just people with landlines that you can you can cold call that are probably have a good chance to pick up. So they better be expecting your call, if you're gonna be if you're gonna be trying to reach out to these people in the future.

Steve: Yeah. It is interesting with the screening the calls and so on. I'm asking about the the homeowners. The reason why I'm asking this question, like, what percentage is because, we've branched our AI into different industries. Right?

And then it's funny, like, on the cleaning industry side. Right? So someone wants to get their carpets cleaned, couches cleaned. There were a lot of iOS. Mhmm.

There were a lot of, like, iPhone Mhmm. With a recent like, a newer iPhone. Yeah. So, like, we had to very quickly make changes to our AI bot Mhmm. To be able to go past the screening.

Yep. Right? Exactly. So they can answer the screening question, and then once they answer, then have a conversation.

Andrew: And it and it makes total sense. Like, you think if someone is willing to pay someone else to perform a house service that they could potentially do themselves, then they probably have a little bit more disposable income.

Steve: Disposable income? Younger.

Andrew: In in younger and want a premium product. Be wanting to know the hip premium product. Has that keeping up with the Joneses of I need the newest iPhone with the newest iOS type of buyer behavior?

Steve: On the house selling side, this has now recently become a problem, but it wasn't a problem. So, like, we've also obviously rolled out the update on that side as well. Yep. But it's just funny, like, on one side, on the carpet cleaning, it was, like, instantly. The moment we got in the carpet cleaning, it's like, hey.

We need to fix this. I was like, crap. How do I fix this? Right? I'm freaking out over here.

Yep. But then, like, three months later, it's like, hey. We're having this problem now on the house buying side.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. And you think about when dealing with that same problem with the data tracking side in ecommerce when you're spending $20,000 a day and all of a sudden you're not tracking a third. The first starts with a third of your users. Now you're remark now when you're trying to remarketing, you're not remarketing.

List is shrinking and shrinking and shrinking, and you're not able to give that prescribed journey that nurtures someone to a purchasing decision Yeah. Where you show them this ad and this ad and this ad, then you give them a 10% off coupon and that has it. You you could track them and do that. You can't anymore. So it was causing the industry to shift to tens of thousands of dollars.

Now these companies are spending a couple thousand dollars a day on ads because that's the only way they can do it profitably. That's what happened on that shift. Meta then made it to more taking the the keys away from the the media buyer and more AI and algorithmic based, and focusing more on local businesses and lead gen, giving the advantages to those types of companies who don't need that level of data because a dollar value isn't assigned to each click all the way through as as much. So that's what he gave me. When he came to me with this, I was like, this is where this these platforms are going.

It's gonna be harder and harder to to do well with ecom in high ticket sales. It's really gonna be more service based lead gen. That's gonna be the ones who are gonna win on these platforms, which is why we went this direction. Yeah.

Steve: So adding or or continuing this thought. So we're saying, iOS, now this is this this phone blocking is rolled out to majority of the iPhones. Android is just gonna pick it up. Yep. So what then are so, I mean, are you guys just gonna plant the flag?

Like, this is the hell you're gonna die on. Like, cold calling is dead.

Craig: I mean, it's always been, I guess, a little bit, it's a it's a lower entry point. Right? Unless you have, like, a massive team and a huge call agency or whatever. But, typically, the people that come into wholesale, the first thing they know is start cold calling. Get get a dialer, get a list, and just start calling through.

But the people who are already established and are doing you know, wanna add another lead channel into their into their operation, it's you know, we can get them. We we can get better leads for them too. So kinda they can compare what they're doing on the cold call side to to the, inbound stuff with us, and, you know, it's kind of a no brainer.

Steve: Yeah. We're getting into diminishing returns.

Andrew: It's just like the the chance of contacting someone is just gonna slowly go down, with the screening versus you have people who will just answer a number from a number they don't recognize. Now it's got to be prescreened before all of that, and then they have to be there. It won't they won't even hear their phone ring. They won't even know that someone's calling them because it's a number they don't know. We'll just completely say, no.

You can deal with the voice mail, and they can decide to call back if they want where at least before, if you're cold calling, like, the phone was gonna ring unless, you know, it was disconnected. Now it's it's you're never even gonna get a chance for them to to to get that call.

Craig: So A lot of competition too on the

Steve: call. Right.

Craig: So all the time you talk to a seller and they've already spoken to five people.

Andrew: No matter what, you're you're being somewhat intrusive where inbound if we can get the same quality lead as a as the the the highest quality PPC lead. So when searching for that solution, if we get inbound through all these other platforms or anywhere else we want to advertise, you're gonna you're gonna win. And because with cold calling time is money, the cost we have a cold caller is gonna just keep going up with the with the economy. And then honestly, with this specific industry, like the reason you guys had the success calling our leads is because it was who was calling, calling and was that person expecting to call and had a real problem. And we're trying to just focus on that.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, the people that answered were ready to talk. Yep. Yep. I mean, these were not scheduled appointments.

Yep. But it felt like scheduled appointments. Like, they were ready to talk. I don't know if this is what you were alluding to, Drew, but it kinda sound like you're making something to compete against Hyros.

Andrew: I I love Hyros. Alex is cool cool dude and, used the used it a ton. Mhmm. I think I think potentially, I think Haros did a great job for solving, like, really ecomm and high ticket sales and, like, solving the money problem. Like the like, I wanna know, you know, if I spend this much money on an ad and money, go

Steve: through all that. Yeah. I think I wanna hear this argument. Yeah. But to get everyone else up to speed because not everyone's a different marketer.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: What's Hyros? What prompted to solve and then how are you solving it differently?

Andrew: Yeah. Hyros is a tracking platform. And what it did was it solved the the actual reporting that an ad platform says versus what really happened. So what I really like to simplest way to explain it is you have these mega corporations that are all have advertising platforms and they all are very greedy. They all want you to spend your money on their platform.

So you have Google. Google says, come spend all your advertising budget on Google ads and TikTok wants you to spend it there. Meta wants you to spend it there. But then also you have an email marketing team, right? And they're sending out emails and a consumer, especially a consumer who's going to buy something online.

Very rarely does it take just one. They see one ad and they buy the product right in the ready to buy. So that's gonna take up to 20 touch points to get that person to buy it. So maybe they see an ad on Facebook and then they're retargeted because we have this data on Google and then they see a YouTube ad and then they sign up for your mailing list and they get an email and then they then they finally buy the product. Now each one of these platforms is competitors.

They're never going to talk to one another. So meta these these attribution windows are usually, you know, up to thirty days. So as long as the sale happened within thirty days of a user seeing my ad, I'm gonna attribute that to be a sale. So now when you go on your platform, it says, wow, I got a sale on Facebook today. I got a sale on my Google Ads today.

And our email got a sale today. However, that is just one transaction. Right? Because that person was cookie by Facebook. They were cookie by Google.

They were cookie by TikTok and by your email service provider, and they did purchase. None of them are gonna they all wanna take credit for that because they want you to say, oh, I'm gonna invest more money on this platform. So So when you look at that at scale with a company who's getting hundreds of thousands of clicks a day and thousands of purchases a day, it's impossible to know really what's happening, which platform is working well, which campaign, which creative, Because Meta is just guessing and throwing purchases. They're getting these events saying someone purchased, but they can't tell because of the tracking problem of

Steve: Apple blocked that information.

Andrew: Was Apple blocked all information. So they're just guessing, and they're calling it statistical modeling. They're using an AI to try to say, well, the click occurred within this window. It's probably this campaign with this ad. Sophisticated marketers could have hundreds of creatives running out of time, dozens of campaigns across multiple platforms.

So Hyros organized it into one tracking platform where you can say, Facebook did this. Here's the actual results because they're actually adding their own kind of pixel that sorting through all that data and and and organizing it so you can get accurate information. There's also really another great company called Triple Whale that does that for ecommerce. Works really, really well. There's a lot of companies that do that.

So, yeah, we're trying to solve that problem by by, by the the funnel we build and the data, how we train the pixel to be laser focused so that, you know, we don't necessarily have a a reporting problem because of the amount of data because we're really targeting the the data at the user level to really get the right people through

Steve: the phone. So, again, just to recapture because it's really a complicated It's a lot. The very first time you talk about high risk, what the hell is this? Yeah. So, really, the point is someone fills out your your your site, and they they click on this ad.

They're like, 123 Main Street.

Andrew: Yep.

Steve: Right? You wanna know three months later because it's really like, this is gonna be more three months than, like, houses. Right? Three months later, like, oh, we bought that person's house. Mhmm.

And from that transaction, we made $23,000. Yep. Gotta go back and tell Facebook, hey. This person that registered three months ago turned into $23,000 in revenue. Give me more of those ads.

Exactly. Right? Yep. But Facebook doesn't know that because you don't have a good reporting platform. Yep.

So then you just run that's why we're talking about, like, you have a really good well trained pixel because of your ecom background. Yep. Most people are just like, Facebook ad. Hey. This campaign got this many leads.

This looks pretty good, but we can't really, like or it was, like, this particular campaign. Yep. So, yeah, I mean, if you can figure out how to go against Hyros, I personally our organization, we use ClickMagick.

Andrew: Yeah.

Steve: I wanted to use high risk. I used high risk for a bit. This thing does not scale well.

Andrew: Yeah. I used it done as well. I think it depend on, how you're using it and what what vertical you're in.

Craig: I guess what

Steve: I say it doesn't scale well as it doesn't scale well financially.

Andrew: Yeah. It's expensive.

Steve: Because it it in the the cost increases as you're more successful. Yep. Versus a traditional model. Right? Like, hey.

You, you spend a thousand dollars a month and you make, 50,000. That's great. But they decide, okay. Well, you made 250,000. It's thousand dollars.

I know that's how our our our labor didn't really change. We're gonna charge you 5,000 now. Yep. Yep. Not such a fun model for us as users.

Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's it's it's basically like you're you're you're basically just partners with them. They're basically oh, like, if you think about it on a percentage of your revenue, if it scales They got a revenue scale.

Yeah. It's like basically a revenue model for a SaaS. Yeah. Track for a traffic and ads tracking platform. So Brilliant for them.

Yep. Yep.

Steve: And it is all the really important problem. It didn't make a lot a lot of people a lot of money. So other lessons, I mean, we're nerding out here. So, $100,000,000 in the aspect. What other lessons have you learned along the way?

Andrew: Oh, man. I think that, like, the main thing I always think about is is it's, who is who is running your ads is a lot more important than what platform you're on or what what whatever it is. Creative is incredibly important. A lot of people, the reason why we're so good at what we do is because of the amount of creative I've generated. I can look at you could send me 10 images and I'll tell you that one will work on ads.

That one won't work in ads. I don't even have to do it. And then we could go run those tests and it would because the amount of things I've seen, the amount of tests I've run, the creative and messaging, how you talk to someone, how you talk to a user on the platform is really important. And sometimes that's going against the grain. Looking at what every single one of your competitors is doing and doing some of the complete opposite.

A lot of people will look at what the competitors are doing and saying, that guy is killing it. I'm going to copy what he does instead of thinking the opposite of going against the grain. And, that's where I've always been as as a marketer is trying to find ways to go to create creative that is not on the platform right now. So we have a lot of creative that I've, you know, you'd only see if you're in a situation like ours that you wanna see one of our home buying ads. You'll never see it if you're not in a desperate situation for a house, but it's very unique and creative that, I don't think anyone else would come up with and and try to run.

That's really some of the the things I've learned, spending that much money and seeing what a bad creative cost to get as desired result versus a good creative cost to get as our result. And then how important data truly is and how you set up your funnel and how you train a pixel and the the the data piece, which, you know, a lot of people can, you know, you could have someone code a website and it looks amazing. If someone code a website and it looks horrible, the the who the person is is really what the difference is and how much experience they have in the background and their their creativity is the same thing with who's running your ads. Right? Just because they say they can run ads doesn't mean they can

Steve: So for some listening then, they want to run their Facebook ads. Right? You know, they're not ready to sign up. I was just five, but they wanna run Facebook ads. What questions do you ask on who hire to run ads?

Andrew: I would definitely ask them, how much money they've spent on the platform. I would say, where are you getting creative? Like, can you show me examples of creative? And, because that's really important, because anybody can just go on Fiverr and say this or can just go up and and, you know, do it. But, like, do they have access to creative?

We have an entire creative team at our company. I'm sure you do too, because having an in house creative team that your wild, crazy idea you have in the middle of the night for an ad can be put into play. Like, that's what you need to really succeed. If they're just going to do what other people are doing, then it's you're just you're just just a race to the bottom. All these platforms are an auction.

Whoever willing to pay the most for the customer is going to win. Whoever is gonna be the most creative to get that customer's attention for the cheapest price is going to win one or the other. If you're in the middle, you're screwed.

Steve: Yeah. So either bigger budget or Yep. Bigger creatives.

Andrew: Or or better team build building the creatives and and running the the platform. Yeah.

Steve: And I think creatives is probably more of a jargon term. So, again

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: For the layman.

Craig: Yeah.

Steve: What does it mean creatives?

Andrew: The think about the actual TV commercial, the actual commercial you see on TV and, you know, a a commercial on SportsCenter is going to be a different geared towards a different demographic than a commercial on the Oprah Winfrey network or on the Lifetime movie network. Right? So does the person who's running your ads understand that this is for a male a male in his thirties? I should run this this commercial, this messaging to someone on SportsCenter versus I'm going to run this messaging for this person on the Lifetime movie network. What the actual messaging is, the person who's in the app, the type of creative, does it catch your eye and make you stop when you're scrolling?

When you're doom scrolling on Facebook and you're down on that a hundredth scroll, is there something that makes you just stop and and pay attention to whatever that is? And then you say, I have this problem. And then you you know, that's that's who wins. If it just gets lost in the scroll, then you're you're dead in the water.

Steve: So for me, creatives is the headline Mhmm. The static image or the video Mhmm. The content Yep. When they click see more or whatever, and then the landing page. Yep.

All of that. That's what you wanna see.

Andrew: Yep. Anyone congruency across that? You want them to see something that says something and they go to a landing page. And does it does it say that same thing? Reinforce that messaging?

If, you know, you you know, I think about it like, when I think creatively, I've I've done a lot in the ecommerce space with health and wellness. If you wanna talk to someone about losing weight, you could market it as something burns fat. It slows down. It speeds up your metabolism. It suppresses your appetite.

There's all different ways to say a thing can help you lose weight. Which one of those is the right way? Well, you know, if you test it Right. And then you test it. And then if you have a landing page that says this suppresses your appetite, but the creative winning creative says it burns fat.

Well, now you have disconnect and you're not going to convert that person into high rate. So how do you create a congruent messaging through all of that creative that leads them to a desired result? And then do you have the right pixel train to target the right the right people? Yep.

Steve: Going back to commercial real estate, do you guys have started buying commercial properties? What kind of commercial properties have you guys been buying?

Craig: Warehouse, mixed use, dirt, lot of dirt. Not even I wouldn't even say the dirt is commercial. Sometimes, you know, it's it's in an area where it's already zoned or whatever, but vacant land, farmland, stuff like that.

Steve: Farmland?

Craig: Like, yeah, like like, cattle leases. I'm sure you've heard. Like, people would just I don't know a lot about cattle leases.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, just in the middle of the speed.

Craig: The other day, 20 acres of land in Oregon, and the guy is getting, like, I don't know, $2,000 a year, I think it was. And he's never been in the property either, but he knows there's a farmer up there that'll lease it from him. And, he puts, like, his his, his horses, his cattle on it. Stuff like that. Like, do the return on that?

It's crazy.

Steve: About $2,000 a year?

Craig: Yeah.

Andrew: What are

Steve: you buying the land for?

Craig: $20.

Steve: Alright. So you're buying land for $20.

Craig: Yeah.

Steve: You know that's gonna lease for however long.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Usually, they're, like, five year leases with with cattle, but I guess the one cash flow is good. The benefit there's there's no depreciation.

It's just dirt.

Steve: You know what I mean? Yeah.

Craig: But, I mean, you need a place to stick money to to avoid paying capital gains taxes.

Steve: Mhmm.

Craig: There's all there's all types of, you know, deals out there everywhere. Just gotta look for them and make sure they work.

Steve: You bought multifamily, though?

Craig: We've done let's see. Done five unit. We have we have a few leads right now of, like, ten and fifteen units. But, I mean, we just started the commercial.

Andrew: Yeah. We've had leads, though, for also so, like, storage

Craig: Yeah.

Andrew: Facilities. Storage. Mo also, like, you know, campgrounds, trailer trailer parks, things like that. And those all can be extremely lucrative, you know, cash flow opportunities if you if you, hang on to them.

Craig: On the commercial campaign, though, it's like there's just so many different properties that come through. Like, any day you could get one where it's like, oh, okay. It's a retail building. And later on that day, you get one where it's 20 acres of land or, what else? Industrial, like a warehouse or something like that.

Gas station. So it's like, we can get anything anything. You know, it's hard to, like, just focus on, like, one part of it because, typically, these sellers are they're current they're currently our investors or they were at one point, and they might not give you that 70%, you know, minus repair price. So it's a little more a little more for the savvy.

Andrew: They also don't know how to move it a lot of times. You know? Yep. So it's easy to find a realtor to just buy a house, but sometimes moving a rundown commercial building, it's it's it's a little bit tougher. So Well, I inherited it.

They've never seen an ad for someone offering to buy it ever. So, you know, they fill it out and we take them through, like, a 20 step funnel. Like, it's not easy. That's why our leads are so motivated because they don't if if they want to go through one of our competitors funnels, good for them. That's easy.

We want to make it hard for them because if they make it through, then they're going to answer the phone. They're going to talk to you. They're ready to talk because it's not an easy process. It's time they have to put thought if thought into it, they have to answer questions the correct way, and they also have to physically type out sentences. They can't just it's not just clicking yes or no type thing.

So that's why we build out that that journey. So by the time we get a a a partial lead or a or a home lead, they've been they've already been through a a pretty rigorous cross screening process to

Steve: get Got it. And then we'll be sure that we put, a link in the description on on how to get ahold of you guys. I already passed your information on to a couple people. Oh. And I've had people reach out to me as well.

I was like, you know, like, what do you know about? I was like, I don't know a whole lot about them, but, like, I know, like, when I called their leads Yeah. They were really, really easy leads. Yeah. Which I think is a is a house buyer.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Probably the most important thing.

Craig: Yeah. The commercial side's a little more savvy, but sometimes, like, you do run into that person whose grandparents died, and he bought, you know, so many properties back in the fifties. And he just he doesn't know. He just inherited 20 acres. He wants you to get rid of it.

Andrew: And he

Craig: sees our ad, and it's like, okay. Like, well, if it works, it works. So it's

Andrew: The land also, the commercial side, there's less emotion tied to the to the property a lot of time. It's like your home that you grew up in and you saw your kids grew up in. Like, that can be a little bit tougher for people. That emotional decision, sometimes the commercial side is there's less emotion attached to it. They're like, what?

Sure. Whatever. Just get just they're trying to get get rid of it. You know? Yeah.

Steve: So then I I guess looking for, each of you guys, you know, you're which hat are you wearing the most right now? Because you're buying real estate, but you're also Lead House three sixty five. Which hat are you wearing more?

Craig: Lead House three sixty five. My my job in in this business is sales, to connect with investors. Because I can speak all the all the troubles they went through in the past about marketing, about sales, hiring a team. I went through it all. It was very easy for me to just be like, dude, I went through all that stuff.

Yeah. Like, here's what I realized. Let alone, I'm still buying real estate, so I'm not trying to coach you to jump on a plane with me without a license. I do this. Everyone here's the success rate.

Here are the references. You know? So that that's my job is is the sales side. Andrew's job is, you know, the ads, the management, the

Andrew: whole Making making sure our guys are crushing it. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: But, I mean, you strike me as more of the social one, but you're still behind the computer.

Andrew: Well, when I do, we both do sales.

Craig: Half the stuff he talks about. I don't even

Andrew: know what he's talking about. I mean, you and I can kick nobody. If I talk to if I talk to, you know, the typical home buyer, I can I can blow their mind with what we built and set up, and they wanted they wanna try it? But, but as far as I can't relate too much to what they're they're going through. I can just tell you how the I solve their problems on the technical side and say a bunch of words that they may not they may not understand, but they understand that reference of, yeah, when I did say I needed a lot more, I did see an ad for a lot more that day.

It's like, yeah, that's what I do.

Steve: That's

Andrew: what we do. We're gonna do that for people looking to sell their home. But but, yeah, we both handle the sales side. He has more of it. A lot on the fulfillment process side and always trying to find new technology we can integrate to make our systems and processes better and more more up to date.

Whether that's just trying to build out a a, you know, a CRM for maybe some people who aren't currently using them, you'd be surprised, but how important that is in this process that we don't currently have, like yeah. Well, we can also build you out a CRM that's custom built for you that plugs the leads right into it for you. You know, working on that. Also working on technology of how to get someone completely across the goal line to sign a contract without ever needing to talk to wholesaler. Is is is this problem we're trying to solve of if we can have someone click our ad and then get their name on paper at the end of our funnel and then then they end up connecting with the wholesalers is our end goal to to get to that point.

That's really where the game will be changed.

Steve: Say that again?

Andrew: So, essentially, someone clicks out, they see that they they are going through a problem. They see an ad. They go through our funnel. They get qualifies them. We're able to digitally give them an offer and get that house under contract all on the same web

Steve: for our client.

Andrew: For our clients. They fulfill that for our clients so that they're talking to the the sellers after they've already signed accepted an offer.

Steve: Are they talking to wholesale if they were to sign a contract?

Andrew: Well, just to to to essentially, the the next the next step is to move the deal. Is to move the deal. Exactly.

Craig: The next phase is how do we get a seller to go through our prequalification funnel that is going through, you know, very obviously, a super serious seller that they're willing to just you know, we'll have an a formula embedded into it that is our client's formula. Right? 7070% minus repairs minus wholesale. And it precalculates an offer for them with a signature. So the seller can do the sign sign sign right there.

And all we're handing now we're we're not handing off a hot lead to our client. We're handing them a deal already.

Andrew: And one of them, their job is to, you know, go go take that deal to closing the table and everything. But that's our that's our our end goal is to get to that point. And we're we're getting closer and closer.

Craig: I mean, Steve, what if that person that you spoke to on the live call, don't you think there was a good way that she was so motivated that maybe if the funnel brought out the emotions in her, that she could've just signed right there without anyone ever speaking. Sometimes these people are that desperate. It's that easy. It's like, okay. Well, if we can solve that problem, why would there ever need to be acquisitions person?

Steve: Interesting problem to solve. We're working on ourselves. Yeah. We're trying to build all all that out with Yeah. Yeah.

That goes

Andrew: Yep. We are too. Yeah.

Craig: Technology, man.

Andrew: Technology, it's gotta be there's gotta be a way. We're both we're both in this going the same direction. Like, there's gotta be a better way. Yeah. And, once we get there, it'll be it'll be, it'll be game changing for sure.

Be disrupting.

Steve: Yeah. Definitely disrupting. What would you say is your superpower?

Andrew: My superpower, I think, is just understanding what what a true customer journey is. Like, what takes someone from awareness to becoming a loyal, loyal customer? And that could be for any industry. And and I think that's it. Like, understanding how the human brain works from marketing, like reverse engineering.

So in buying something to what the journey that led them there is and how to nurture someone from point a to point.

Craig: Yourself. Loyalty. Yeah. Relation. I definitely tell it like it is.

I'm I'm like the nicest asshole.

Steve: You know what I mean?

Craig: I like to, if if there's a problem, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I'm just gonna tell you, hey. You have this problem. You gotta fix it. You know?

Because

Steve: at the end of the

Craig: day, we can only provide people with opportunities. If they're just always going to come back and complain about the lead, this, this, or that, but not, you know, open up the peel, open the the onion on their own business and say, hey. Maybe it's us. You know? I'll tell

Steve: them that. You know? I'll let

Craig: them know that, hey. You you have a sales problem.

Steve: Mhmm.

Craig: Guys, here's the proof. Watch this video. Watch this. You know? If they can do if you're doing exactly what they're doing, then you should have a deal.

If you're not, then you have that's that's their issue.

Steve: Which failure would you say you learned the most from?

Craig: Which failure did I learn? I'd say probably probably that that. And then also in the past, just hiring people that, you know, did just because they're willing to come in and sit in a chair for five, ten hours a day or whatever, not, properly training people to to what we're we're here to do. Just because you can talk to somebody and get a signed contract doesn't mean that you're you're gonna stick around. You know, a lot of people you know this industry.

They come and they learn it with a firm, and then they they quit and they go do it on their own. You know? So

Steve: How do you prevent this from

Craig: happening again? NDAs. Everyone's gotta sign, I guess. But also, in our own wholesale business, no one works here in The States. It's all it's all overseas.

We've we've done that part. You know, we trained we've trained, and and we know that, good help is, a lot of times, is overseas. You know? So if they're been properly trained, then, you know, they'll be good at their job. But if they weren't, then it's my fault.

Steve: Where do you like to hire overseas? Central South America.

Craig: Just time zone wise and as well as, just, you know, our English here is very, like, laid back, kinda chill. Talking to a seller versus Europe, you know, like, people would think that, people, with a British accent are smart just because they have a British accent. But I've learned that if it's somebody, like, localized time zone to us, they're more on our level of slang language, and, their English is more aligned with, you know, the Western chemistry English. I've I've tried Philippines, Egypt, but it's always more aligned with European level English, and it's it's too it's too, proper. You know?

So it's kinda easy to pick up. And we get those calls all day anyways. You know?

Steve: I never tried the Egyptian accent. Yeah. And a lot of people have used Egyptian views. Yeah. I've never actually tried.

Yeah. I've had a lot

Craig: of success, El Salvador, Colombia, Venezuela.

Andrew: Those will be typically for you, like then I've done a lot in The Philippines, and it can be tough with technology, Internet connection, and just they have natural disasters. They may be out of power for days. Reliability. Reliability can be really It's a structure. Depending on what seat they're in, it could be it can be really tough for a business if you have them in an important seat and, they disappear for a few days.

Fortunately, it happened.

Steve: Which failure did you learn?

Andrew: And I'd say probably just there's too many to count all of them. But, I'd say, you know, I got laid off from a job that I thought was a really cushy corporate job, and it was busting my ass as hard as I could. And I kind of learned that if you're if you're making money for somebody else, that no matter how good of a job you're doing, like, it just comes down to business, and they're never gonna really appreciate, how hard you work for them. And I it kinda made me take the leap to where I started my own business. And the first time I started my own business after I left a really cushy job, I made the same amount of money as I did working that job for years where I had that, you know, small salary bump and I got to wear jeans on Fridays.

And we all had cake in the office or in the, in the kitchen when it was someone's birthday, you know, doing that life. And then the first month, I made the same exact amount money, that salary, and then I never made less the month after that. And it's because I truly found that like when your butts your backs against the wall and the fires in your ass and you have to go hunt to eat, you know, that's a true the true motivator in life. And I've never looked back. I don't think I could ever work for someone ever again.

And so at the time, I thought I was a failure getting laid off, and I thought it was, like, self doubt. And once you get over that and you realize that you just have to go go go do it, it realized it was probably the best thing that ever happened

Steve: to me. I would say just in our limited interaction, I would say you can never work. I would agree with that as well.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. When you think

Steve: about some last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners with, guys, you got value from this episode. Make sure you subscribe. We, we got even more disruptors coming on, and we'll be breaking down the exact moves that they're making to win. And when you guys subscribe and share it, we can reach more people, create more millionaires. Last thoughts I'd like to leave all the listeners with.

Andrew: I'd say that just, the the last thoughts would be is if you're in this industry, if you're in the real estate industry, then definitely look into inbound. I'd say that if you're just an entrepreneur looking to to to gain insight and knowledge, I would say that just, like, really pay attention to trends and what technology is happening because the next, I think, five years, especially with with AI and the way technologies, is gonna probably create as many, you know, millionaires and billionaires as the .com boom or the I'd say really social media boom was the there was, like, the .com boom and the social media boom. I think this is the AI boom. And if you're ignoring it and thinking that, oh, it's I'm safe or my job's not gonna be replaced or I don't need to adopt this new technology, you know, you're gonna be one of the the companies left probably in the in the dust. And the ones who adapt to it earlier and learn it and accept it are gonna be the ones that are gonna thrive.

Steve: Totally agree. How about yourself?

Craig: What was the question?

Steve: Last last thoughts I'd like to leave all the listeners with.

Craig: Yeah. I think, just kinda what Anthony said about technology. Also, there's just so much there's every day, there's something new coming out. So just try to stay on top of, you know, this the the new, technology and and AI. So, we work with a lot of guys who are still trying to, you know, do the old school spreadsheets, notepads, trying to take it to the next level, or they're simply trying to just cut out wholesalers.

I'm a flipper, and I paid wholesalers $300 last year in assignments. I wanna get to the source. Learn the sales process first before you hire an agency like us because we're expensive. And and most agencies are very expensive. And if you don't know how to talk to sellers, figure that out first.

Dial in your sales process, because those wholesalers are your lifeline right now. Even though you're paying them a lot of money per deal, they're the ones bringing you consistent inventory, and they deserve to get paid too.

Andrew: Unfortunately, we we always joke around in our industry, though we do, the people who need us the most are the people we probably can't help. People who need the hottest leads are the people who probably have the most broken sales process. So it's like no matter what now who's giving you the leads won't be there. But people like you don't necessarily need us. You would crush it if we work together with what with what you're capable of.

Yeah. But really appreciate you having us on this. It's been super fun.

Steve: Absolutely. Thanks so much. Thank you, brother. Why not?

Andrew: Thanks, man.

Steve: Thank you. Thank you guys for watching. You guys next time. Steve train.

Andrew: Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.