$300k In 3 Months Using AI in Real Estate

Steve Trang: When did you know real estate was real for you?

Brad Bone: I never doubted that it would work. Took a long time for us to kinda get there, but you could see the the results Mhmm. Of it. AI is like this new tech complicated thing, but the system itself is very simple. So the AI, you can actually train.

You can train the AI to sound like you and to respond the way you want it to respond. The biggest impact the AI has for our business is follow-up. There there's a lot of other uses, but follow-up is where we're all bad at it. We're bad at follow-up. It's really expensive, and it's actually where all the money is.

Mhmm. Like, we could turn off marketing and probably live off follow-up for six months.

Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Disruptors. Today, we have Brad Bone with RiverX AI. And Brad drove in from Bakersfield, California. Talk about how he's earning an extra $300,000 in three months using AI.

Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. You'll take consistent action. You will become one. And if you get value out of today's show, please hit that subscribe button.

That way we can create more millionaires. You ready? Yeah. Alright. So first question is, what was your life like right before you got into real estate?

Brad: So I was working for a, a contracting company like a like a defense contractor.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: We did projects throughout the South Southwest, on military bases. And so I started out I got a degree in construction management and and then worked for a commercial builder for a couple years and then had an opportunity to move back home. Started working for a defense contractor. So I was doing that project management, estimating, things like that. And it was a good job.

I was I was, working a lot from home.

Steve: Okay.

Brad: And then traveling actually out here to Arizona sometimes, going to, well, kind of the South Southwest, you know, Texas, Arizona, Nevada.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. Why do you get into real estate?

Brad: Yeah. I remember I remember always being interested in it. In college was during the run up of the housing market and I had some friends who were in it. And I always I always wanted to do it and always wanted to have my have my own business as well. So I just remember one day thinking, I don't want to let those interest those low interest rates pass me up.

Mhmm. I didn't know that it would go for another eight years or whatever it was. And so, we started I started listening to BiggerPockets, kind of binged out on those podcasts. I was I think that was when those podcasts were first getting started.

Steve: Right.

Brad: I I think that was some of those first, Bigger Pockets podcast. Anyway, listen to a lot of those and then we started doing direct mail. Mhmm. Actually, before that, I started buying at the auction. Okay.

That was in 2014 with a friend.

Steve: So you're you're still working your full time job?

Brad: Yeah. I was kinda doing both and partnered up with a with a cousin who was who had his family had been in real estate for a long time. And so we did this arrangement where I would go to the auction with another realtor

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And we would we would bid on deals. And the auctions were kinda going out of style at that point though.

Steve: Right.

Brad: There weren't really deals left.

Steve: Was was this like Bakersfield or is it Yeah.

Brad: It was in Bakersfield.

Steve: Okay. So it's Bakersfield, what's the population like?

Brad: It's like a 100,000 or something. No. It's it I think it's 300 if if it's the whole

Steve: Okay.

Brad: You know, metro.

Steve: But you're you're focused in in in that market? Yeah. Okay. So you're focused on buying there, but it also felt like it was kinda drying up. So, like, were you buying deals there?

Brad: We we were so we were just at the auction at that point. So we were I kind of knew the auctions were drying up. They were great like five years before that,

Steve: you know, during the Yes, they were.

Brad: During the crash. And so but that was kind of the only strategy we had at that time with this partner. So we bought a couple deals and I I didn't feel great about them because, you know, we're we're we're buying them sort of peeking in the front door

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And that kind of thing. We made a little bit of money on them, but that got me started. And then that cousin ended up they pivoted out of residential real estate and actually start started doing car washes and did really well. But when they did that, we kinda had to go on our own and figure it out.

Steve: You didn't like poking your head in the door?

Brad: I liked it. It was just a lot of risk. You know, I felt like we weren't getting them super deep. Mhmm. I'm fine with doing it if we if we get them deep enough.

Steve: Right.

Brad: But we weren't getting great deals, and we had a lot of risks. So

Steve: Right. I remember, like, I never did the the the break and entering. Like, I Mhmm. Not so much I'm above it. It's really more like, I don't wanna get caught doing it.

Yeah. Right? Because, like, that will derail a lot of, you know Yeah. Goals. And And so, like, we had other people that would do it.

Mhmm. And so, like, yeah, buying at auctions was just normal. They would just find a window that didn't work or a door that wasn't locked or somehow or some other way Mhmm. You know, they got in. I remember I had a situation where my a property I had bought, it was was it foreclosure?

I can't remember for sure. And, like, it was my cousin and I were doing these deals together from, yeah, I think this is from an auction property. And, like, as, hey. I can't get in, like, you know, that gave a locksmith. It's like, I'll be right there.

And then he picked the lock. I was like Yeah. When did you learn this skill? Yeah. He's like, well, we buy at the auctions.

So Yeah. Yeah. That's, that that's just one of those, I guess, not spoken about skills Yep. About guys that buy at the foreclosure sites.

Brad: Yeah. We were we were always buying they were often occupied. Mhmm. So you'd go and knock on the door. They'd open the door.

And you're just trying to look over their shoulder just to see what's going on. Mhmm. And, it just felt like we were making a lot of assumptions. And, we were. But Oh, yeah.

But we we ended up buying two deals that way. And then that was that that was over the course of probably six months. Mhmm. And then that pivoted out and then we started doing direct mail.

Steve: Did you make money on those?

Brad: We did make a little bit of money. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. And you're still working your job?

Brad: I was still working my job then. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So was it, like, a flip? Was it a

Brad: Those were yeah. Those two were flips.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So you got the people like, were were they occupied?

Brad: I'm trying to remember how that went. I think they were occupied when we talked to them, but they must have moved out because I don't remember them taking a long time to to start the rehab. Right. But I got connected with a really good rehabber and investor in Bakersfield. He did the flips for me and, you know, made a little bit of money and learned it learned how to do it.

Steve: But not worth quitting your job over yet?

Brad: Not quite yet. No. Okay.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So then you started doing direct mail? Yeah. How'd that go?

Brad: We were just trying to figure you know, we didn't know how to talk to sellers. We didn't know anything. So that when we started doing that, that was my brother and I. Mhmm. We we said, alright, let's do it together.

And my my brother and I are twins. And we I remember thinking I remember kinda having the discussion with him of, like, are we just splitting up profits by working together? What you know, how do we think about that? Mhmm. And then I just thought, well, we're either gonna, like, make it big or, you know, crash and burn.

Whatever. We'll just do it together. We'll figure it out. And I'm glad we did. It's been a great partnership.

Steve: Is he does he have the same background as you?

Brad: He's got he's got an ag business background. Mhmm. So we come from a agriculture family. So my my dad, grows pistachios. So we have a lot of pistachios.

My brother's involved in that. So, I went more construction and and so I I've always more taken the lead on the real estate side, but Justin's been very involved in a lot of things. Yeah.

Steve: What, are you guys wired the same?

Brad: In a lot of ways, we are. I remember thinking that we were too similar back then. And then over the past ten years, I've realized that there's things he's really good at, like the books and accounting and figuring out where the money is going and coming in. And then there's things that I'm better at. And so it's worked out to be a real good partnership.

Steve: So you guys are different enough where it's complimentary?

Brad: Yeah. It is. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. Because I don't know how that works. Right? Like, are you guys identical, fraternal? We're fraternal.

Okay. So Yeah. Gotcha. It's always fascinating to see, like, how that's gonna work. So what were some of the lessons you learned being partners business partners with your twin brother?

Brad: Well, I think one thing I realized is that I remember worrying about it because, you know, you go in a partnership, especially with family, can can be a problem.

Steve: It can be really bad.

Brad: Yeah. And the thing I realized is we've been partners since the womb. So it's like, why not just continue it? Right. You know?

So, I think the lessons are, like, we we have the same core values. We have the same goals. And those are the most important.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And then the rest of it, we just figure out as we go. But the the I don't know how exactly people partner up when they just kinda meet each other in a meetup group or whatever. I don't know how that works because it it yeah. There's gotta be more to it.

Steve: So you had this conversation, like, what are we are we just splitting everything fifty fifty? So what was that conversation like?

Brad: I think we came to that agreement pretty quick. It was like, let's just split it down fifty fifty because I don't know. I think there's something about being twins. Mhmm. When we're twins, we we've always done stuff together.

So it's a lot easier.

Steve: It's an unfair advantage. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah.

Steve: Alright. So then when something difficult when a difficult conversation needs to be had Mhmm. Is it, like, nipped in

Brad: the bud pretty quickly? Or do there things that linger? Things don't really linger. We're pretty we're really good at communicating.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: We've always have been. And, we think about things a little differently. He'll look at it from a certain perspective and there's over the years, you realize, oh, the way you were actually looking at it was the right way. And I was looking at it a little differently. I think I've always been a little bit more optimistic.

Mhmm. And he's always been a little bit more pessimistic. But that's also a result of where he sits. He sits in finance. Mhmm.

And, like, he he's made this comment. It's true. Finance is the last, it's the last department that's high fiving people.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: Like, acquisition, they're all excited. Finance is like, where's the money? Right. You know? So he's he's part of it is the the the the seed he sits in.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And it's true. Right? I mean, even, like, we we did, I created ViviVision, you know Mhmm.

Earlier this year. And, when I created it, I was like, well, we need to have, like, formal titles Mhmm. For everyone that sits at the company. I was like, okay. It's like, what is a CEO's, like, formal title?

What's a CEO's formal title? And you kinda learn, like, there's no such thing as a formal title. But one of the things for CFO is, like, they're basically, like, the other bad guy. Yeah. Right?

Like, the CEO can be a positive guy. It can be a negative guy, whatever. Like, you're usually driving, and the c o COO is more like, hey. Like, here are, you know, expectations, this and that. But the CFO is the one that says no Yeah.

More often than that. It's like, hey, can we do this? No. Like Yeah. Where is the money coming from?

Yeah. Yeah. So, he has to be the bad guy then Mhmm. In a lot of these situations. You're right.

Yeah. Alright. So then you guys started doing direct mail. Mhmm. How was that how'd that go?

See, you said, like, there wasn't a lot of coaching out there. There weren't a lot Mhmm. Places to learn from. Like, so how was that experience? Most business owners waste their time and money on solutions that never fix the root problems.

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Our event is happening soon and is available for you to join only if you're willing to take the pill. Like, there wasn't a lot of coaching out there. There weren't a lot Mhmm. Places to learn from. Like, so how was that experience?

Brad: We we actually did a little coaching program, I remember, and learned a a style of sales. Mhmm.

Steve: I don't

Brad: we don't use it at all anymore, but, it was something to work from. And Right. We started, you know, we started closing some deals. I think we maybe did five deals the first year and, you know, 10 deals the next year and 20 deals the next year and just kinda but we I feel like we this was 2015 when we went on our own, and I I went full time around that, right in there. So but I feel like we lingered for a long time.

I mean, we just were churning and just sort of getting by, but not growing a lot. Growing a little bit, but not not a lot.

Steve: I mean, five, ten, and 20, you're doubling every year.

Brad: Well, yeah. But then I think we stuck at 20 for a while and, you know, it's Gotcha. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So you're saying you went full time. Did your brother also go full time around the same time?

Brad: No. He didn't. Because he he he works full time with my dad and in the farm and he still does that. He kinda has three full time jobs. He's got the ag side.

He's got with us.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And then he's got twins and two other kids. So he's got four kids total at home. So yeah.

Steve: So how does that work in the in the partnership?

Brad: You know, it's so I I we just we split it up and it we have a pretty good understanding on all that. Yeah. So he doesn't work quite as much as I do.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: That's adjusted in salary. So

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So when did you know real estate was real for you?

Brad: I think I think early on, I knew it was real. Mhmm. You know? I never doubted that it would work. It it took took a long time for us to kinda get there, but you could see the the results of it.

So So from day one,

Steve: you had absolute conviction this was gonna work. There was never a single doubt.

Brad: I knew it could work. I mean, there's always doubts that it works for us. Mhmm. But I knew it was the right business. I never I never doubted the actual business model and the industry.

Like, the industry's solid and the business model's solid. Mhmm. Can we make it work? You're always wondering that.

Steve: Right.

Brad: You know? Because there's

Steve: just, like, kinda like this, magic moment, right, where it's, like, okay, this is real. Mhmm. Or, like, I know this is I've seen other people have success. There can't be this many fakers on social media. Right?

Yeah. But there's still that element of, like, okay, this is real. Mhmm. Like, I am now able to quit my job.

Brad: Yep.

Steve: Right? So then what were some of the early challenges in in in doing this?

Brad: I think so one thing is I didn't think of myself as a salesperson early on. And I think of degree in? Construction management.

Steve: Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. And and I I that was a mental thing. So I I didn't think of myself as sales salesperson. I think people that are that have a sales background or or maybe are naturally good at sales, they can actually get started a lot quicker because they're the sales guy and they're out there closing deals. We kinda we kinda winged it.

I was doing sales, you know, at the beginning, but I didn't feel like I was very good at it. And the truth is

Steve: Justin going on appointments?

Brad: Not not as much. No. Just me. The truth is I think that was a mindset thing because over the past year, I've realized I'm probably better than I realized.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And, if I had shifted that mindset earlier, we probably would have done better. Yeah.

Steve: So talk to me about that mindset.

Brad: I think I think we we had trouble with acquisitions for a long time. Mhmm. Just getting really good acquisition guys in place and then knowing how to hold them accountable. And so lack of good leadership, lack of the right people in the right seats, Those were the big challenges over the, you know, those those a lot, you know, really the first five, six years.

Steve: Right. But before you even get into the hiring accountability though Mhmm. Or about I'll talk about the mindset of you actually being a salesperson. Yeah. So you didn't embrace being a salesperson?

No.

Brad: I I I kinda didn't wanna be a salesperson. I didn't wanna I didn't have that it felt like that was not a I didn't wanna be a sales guy.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: You know? And then and then you kinda realize that sales doesn't have to be used car sale salesman.

Steve: Right.

Brad: It can be a a totally different experience. And when I started to realize that, it got a lot I embraced it more.

Steve: How long would it take for you to turn that corner?

Brad: It's probably it was around probably 2018 or so when I came across John Martinez.

Steve: Mhmm. So three years into it.

Brad: Yeah. I think so.

Steve: Then you're like, oh, crap. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then was the, the pivot once you saw a different coaching program, or was there an experience that caused it for you?

Brad: So I don't even think I embraced it then. I think I more embraced it when I when I started coaching our own salespeople. And then Gotcha. When you start coaching your own salespeople, because you realize that you know a bunch of things that they don't know even though they have the sales profile or or I think they do, you're like, oh, well, I actually know a lot of this stuff.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: You know? And and that really happened maybe in the even in the past eighteen months.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: That's there's been a big shift in my mindset on that.

Steve: So then, at which point did you embrace being a salesperson?

Brad: Probably the past eighteen months.

Steve: Past eighteen months? Yeah. So prior to then, how are you approaching these appointments?

Brad: Like, thinking of it as a pure numbers game and not realizing you can control it, you know? Just kinda like, I don't know. The guy didn't wanna sell us our the house. And so you you just that's a wrong mindset.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's tough because, like, I mean, I went through the same Mhmm.

Exact journey. Right? That whole part about, like, I don't wanna be a salesperson. Mhmm. And it took many, many years to really declare I'm a salesperson.

But even though I declared it, right, I was like, I still didn't really fully Yeah. Embrace it. Yep. Right? Because it was still, like, there's this idea of I'm doing this to somebody Mhmm.

Versus, you know, I'm doing this with somebody. Yeah. So when did that switch flip in your head?

Brad: That started, especially with John Martinez, because the early the early coaching we had with sales was a lot more it was kinda like kinda looked down on the on the on the seller. And it was the there was parts of it I liked because it was very much about trying to get a really deep deal.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: But the parts I didn't like was it just kinda had a, just a bad vibe towards the seller. It's like almost like the seller is the enemy. John Martinez switched that around. John Martinez made a difference.

Steve: So the first one you took, was it a sales training program?

Brad: It was more of a coaching kind of overall type thing.

Steve: But it was more adversarial?

Brad: Yeah. I would say with the seller. Yeah.

Steve: Right. So it's me against you.

Brad: Yes. Right?

Steve: And now it's like with with John Martinez, I felt like this is me and you. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Right.

Yeah. So, like, for me, the switch flips. Because even though, like, I was, like, selling and getting people to buy houses, list the house, whatever, it wasn't until I had these homeowners, like, basically bully me into buying their home. I was like, oh, like, they want this more than I do. Oh, yeah.

Right? Yeah. And so once I started having people, like, force me to buy their homes for cash, like, oh. Yeah. Okay.

Like, I'm providing a valuable service that they're demanding. Yep. Right? I don't have to convince them of anything. I just have to find the ones I really wanna sell Mhmm.

Or need to sell. Yep. And then you talked about the hiring accountability. So looks like, you know, this is a pivotal point in your career. Yeah.

So what what happened here?

Brad: Well, I think the reason I think I look back and think about why did it take us so long. Mhmm. Why did we flounder for years? And I think it's just leadership. And I didn't know how to hold people accountable.

I didn't I didn't I didn't know how to do it, and I I I didn't really want to, I think. And it it's like the what is that that Patrick Lencioni book about the, five temptations of a CEO, I think, is it? One of them is one of them is, popularity over results.

Steve: Yeah.

Brad: And I don't think of it as the I don't think of the word popularity necessarily. But it's definitely, like, I don't wanna I don't wanna cause problems with a friend. And so there's that weird kind of thing you're trying to work through. And and I think what happens is when you have a couple bad deals or whatever or you have something go wrong, all of a sudden it's like things change in how you think about it. So you have you have a shift that happened last year.

Force change. Yeah. Force change.

Steve: So Yeah.

Brad: And then you realize that actually that's a you create better relationships with people when you're honest with them. Mhmm. So it's actually a better way to go anyway.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, the times that I've had to have difficult conversations, like, I always dreaded them. Right? Mhmm. But after having this, like, it really wasn't that bad.

Yeah. Yeah. Alright. It's kinda like, what was it? If you if you were to measure someone's heart rate that's, like, jumping out of a plane.

Right? It's high all the way until they jump out of the plane. And then on the on the on the way down, it's like, it's not so bad. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, a lot of anxiety there. Okay. So you you felt like leadership was the challenge? Yeah. Mhmm.

So how did you become a better leader?

Brad: Started working with, Joseph Aloni last year.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And he taught us a lot. So, so Brent I don't know. I think you've met Brendan. Works with us maybe. Anyway, he's our he's our operations guy.

And so him and I have really worked a lot with Joe and Mhmm.

Steve: And

Brad: learned how to be be leaders. And and that's and along with that is culture. So it's like culture and leadership kind of go together Mhmm. Because you want to have a culture where you can't have good culture without leadership.

Steve: Right.

Brad: So, so we've learned a lot of that, and I feel like that's that's been a huge difference. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Mhmm. Any particular books you'd recommend? Any of your favorite books on on leadership?

Brad: I I think anything with Patrick Colencioni.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a I I love, right, like, the advantage Mhmm. By the functions of a team.

Mhmm. And then what still is, I still have to read. It's, it's the new one. It's the six what is it? Because, yeah, you have, like, the innovation, the ideation, the

Brad: Oh, it's the work the genius one? Working genius. Yeah.

Steve: There you go.

Brad: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Like, that's why I still gotta pick that. I

Brad: haven't read that either yet. But Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. But everything that guy does is is is absolute genius. Yeah. So, what were some of the biggest victories that you had, you know, from where you were today or when where you started to where you are

Brad: today? I think we we've we've focused a lot on on our process and building we focused a lot on, I guess, process since the beginning. And and we never and and I think we almost focus on process over profits

Steve: Mhmm. For a

Brad: long time, which isn't good in the in the moment. But, you know, it can make you scale up fast when once you kinda get everything in place. So biggest victories we have, like, we have a really good team now. Mhmm. You know, we and that that came, even in the past two or three years, that's that's come.

So we have a really good team. We've switched our our business strategy away from fix and flips and that kind of thing and do a lot of notations and assignments now. That's been a huge differ that's made a huge difference in cash conversion cycle. And, like, even mindset, you know, when we're when we're flipping everything, you get a contract and you immediately need to go further in debt because you gotta go borrow money to to buy the house. And it's almost like you start not liking getting contracts.

There's some but now when you know you're not having to close on it, it's a it's a totally different feeling.

Steve: So Yeah. It's def it's a it's a it's a different business model. The in my opinion, the the more fun

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: And less stressful part Yeah. Of the business. Yeah. I mean, I've had so many people say, like, Steve, why don't you just, you know, do more flips? Like, I don't want anything.

Brad: Me too. I almost have, like, a trauma response to flips now. Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, you're a great flipper, you might not be great at sourcing deals.

Brad: Yeah. I

Steve: would say that you can't. Mhmm. It's just it's a completely different skill set. Yeah. Like, I look at wholesalers and and and and the like, more like we're the gunslingers.

Yeah. Right? We're the ones, you know, we're Brett Favre. We're out there throwing the ball and, like, hope it doesn't get picked off.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: Right. Whereas the flippers tend to be more detail oriented Yeah. And, a lot less not to say, not risk tolerant, but, like, their risk tolerance is different. Mhmm. The different considerations.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then talk to me about the transition from fixing and flipping Mhmm. To innovations.

Brad: We took the Eric Brewer's novation course about the time you and I met Mhmm. Early twenty three. Yeah. And, it took us six months to really we start I think we got something under contract within a couple months Mhmm. As a novation.

But it took us six months to get it figured out and dialed in. And then it took us a few more months to get some consistency. Mhmm. But it it's, a lot of it's just the the approach from the sales process side. And, like, how do you approach that seller?

And we thought that the sellers were gonna be, like, well, why don't I just list it? That's what we thought. We're how do we get past that objection?

Steve: That's a reasonable concern.

Brad: Yeah. And what we realize is these sellers immediately see the value. Mhmm. We're the ones that think that there's there's some weird thing that we gotta explain. They're immediately seeing the value.

Steve: Right.

Brad: They're they're saying, I have a I have a problem. I want some convenience, but I want something higher than the super deep cash offer.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And it's like, well, here it is. Yeah. Let me have that.

Steve: Right.

Brad: So we do not get pushback on novations ever.

Steve: So you said it took six months. What were the the the obstacles that took six months to overcome?

Brad: A lot of it's, like, the mindset of our team, like, figuring out, you know a lot of it's that, I think. Getting our team to understand how to approach an ovation deal. And then and then when you're trying to get our team to, like, get away from the mindset of, plan a is to close. Mhmm. That's what we we were always like.

Plan a is to close and maybe we'll wholesale. It's like, no. No. Let's, like, not close. Mhmm.

Let's just let's do not do that. And so then you're you're you're dealing with some pushback there and trying to figure out, well, how can we make that business model work? So I think it's a it's just training and it's like closing those gaps and understanding.

Steve: Say plan a is to close.

Brad: Do you

Steve: mean, like, close as in the buy to flip? Yeah. Or it's a close?

Brad: That's what we always were. We would always close. Right. We would always get something under contract and close.

Steve: Plan a was always to be the buyer. Yes. Show up as the buyer. Yeah. Be the actual buyer.

Yeah. Right? Okay. And then the transition is, like, we're no longer the buyer. Mhmm.

Go run this appointment, but we're not the buyer. Yeah. And that That was the hard part. Right.

Brad: Right.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. So then what did you do to overcome that?

Brad: A lot of training. Yeah. Yeah. So, and we finally were able to, and I think it's also getting the right people in place. We had we had sometimes we'll have acquisitions people that maybe don't quite understand novations.

They don't understand how exactly how it works. And what I was noticing is, like, when someone doesn't understand how it works, they're they're just kinda throwing out words, like and it's like, well, you're throwing out big words and you're confusing everybody. So so training on the sales process and also what exactly is innovation and what is the value we're bringing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: Like, all that stuff's important. Like, if you don't believe it, you don't understand it. You're not gonna be able to sell it.

Steve: Alright. So let's pretend I'm your new sales rep. Mhmm. Brad, like, we're buying these houses all the time.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: And we pitch an ovation. Like, why should the seller pitch take an ovation?

Brad: Yeah. So because if they need convenience, if they want if they want a convenient, hassle free, easy process, and and but they want something more than the cash offer, then then innovation makes sense. Mhmm. If they if they got the time to go through the process now the question would be like, well, why don't they just list it? Mhmm.

Well, a listing agent is not gonna pay for their own commissions and they're not gonna pay for repairs that pop up and they're not gonna pay we've had to do that where we pay for, lender repairs and insurance repairs that neither the buyer or the seller were willing to do. Mhmm. So, like, we're in we're we'll do it. And that's that's the value of innovation. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. So the biggest thing is somebody to actually make the repairs.

Brad: Part of it's that, but part of it's the just that whole process. That's just one part of the value that

Steve: we're looking at. Like, because I'm but the listeners right now, they're listening. Right? I want you to put them in the position of, like, the sales rep who's, like, why would I take the vacation? So I'm not looking really to more convince the homeowner because we're like, we're talking our position.

Homeowner's convinced. Right. Homeowner's ready to go. Yeah. Right?

It's us initially Mhmm. And our sales team after Mhmm. In in resistance and not believing in it. Yeah. So how are you coaching them through to have the belief?

Because that's what it takes Mhmm. To sell something.

Brad: Yeah. So in our sales process, we we ask our homeowners and and our our our salespeople do this. Hey. Why don't you just go list the house? Mhmm.

And they're gonna tell us all the reasons why they don't wanna list it. And if they don't, if they say, oh, yeah. That's a good idea. It's like, well, let me refer you to some listing agents then. So they're gonna tell us all the reasons they don't wanna list it.

So we're I'm telling our our agents, they don't wanna list it. There's something about listing it that they don't wanna do. Mhmm. And they want a convenient, easy, hassle free process. But they don't want the super low deep offer.

Right. So this is an option that's somewhere in between.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. And then, yeah, you mentioned we met, a year or so ago. So, we connected at Bruce Norris's event Yeah. Right, which was an interesting event.

Yeah. Because he spoke at Collective Genius, I wanna say, in '22.

Brad: Okay.

Steve: And he was like this, Nostradamus of real estate.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Like, he can see patterns. It's kinda like that scene inside of was it was that movie where they were counting cars? Was it '21? Is that what they called it?

Brad: Might have been. I don't know.

Steve: Yeah. Right? But you see, like, Zach Galifianakis and where he's, like, seeing all the equations. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. Like, that's Bruce Norris. Yeah. Right? And then we go to this event.

It's, like, he's nothing like the guy that was in his CG who was, like, predicting the future.

Brad: Mhmm. Right. Right. He didn't know.

Steve: He didn't know. Yeah. I was like, this is so weird. Yeah. Right?

And so but you were at the event. You go to that event all the time?

Brad: No. That was the first time I'd been there. I'd listened to I'd listened to it later, you know, when he put it out on the podcast, but that was the first time I'd been there.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So what

Brad: brought you to that event? We had 22 flips in inventory coming into the '23 Yeah. And market shifting. And we're like, if you if you live on the West Coast or anywhere near California and you don't know what to do in real estate, you figure out what Bruce Norris is doing. Mhmm.

So that's what we

Steve: that's what we So he's the authority.

Brad: To me, he was. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, he clearly is. Mhmm. It was just fascinating to see the two completely different people.

Brad: Yeah. Yeah. I think what his conclusion was that I got was there's a bunch of bad signs here, but there's some other things that are holding it up. And I think his conclusion that I took away was we might just skate through this thing without too much price damage. And that's exactly what happened.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like that. He he kinda called it again.

Steve: Right.

Brad: But it was still nerve wracking. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Hell, I I I don't think we're completely out of the woods yet either. Yeah. Okay.

So one of, the things we were talking a moment ago was, you know, leadership and culture. So talk to me about the culture, part of your organization.

Brad: So I think one of the things we've tried to so one of the things that that we've emphasized with sales, and this is from there's a lot of this is from Joe Cipollone, but is being really curious. Mhmm. And I know you talk a lot about that too.

Steve: Yeah.

Brad: Being curious. And we're trying to do that throughout throughout our whole, organization. So being curious in Dispo, being curious in TC, being curious in, in marketing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And because, like, we can we can control the the controllables, but we can also influence the uncontrollables by being really curious.

Steve: Right.

Brad: You you you you're really curious with a title rep and that might cause them to think of something that they are missing. When that deal might have fallen through because the title rep did something wrong Mhmm.

Steve: And

Brad: we would say, well, that was uncontrollable. Like, they just messed up. It's like, well, we could've influenced them by just being really curious.

Steve: Right.

Brad: So that's part of it. But it's also just, yeah, just having a a culture where we so our culture is integrity and ownership and, and drive and, you know, hiring people that that that fit that.

Steve: So I'm applying to work, right, in the company. And you tell me these are your core values. Mhmm. How

Brad: will you define integrity? So I I never wanna make a make money off of a lie. Mhmm. Even a small one, like, if we're wholesaling a deal and we're bringing someone out, we're not gonna say it's a contractor.

Steve: It's a

Brad: it's a buyer. Mhmm. We don't have to we don't have to be ashamed of what we do. Like, we're in a legit business.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: So not even little lies, we don't wanna do. Mhmm. We don't we don't wanna lie to sellers or buyers or for sure not not each other. Mhmm. You know?

So that's important. Like, we we've asked people, do did you get in trouble when you were growing up for telling a lie? You know? And we wanna hear yes to that. Like, yeah.

That was a big deal.

Steve: Right.

Brad: So, and then ownership is more just like taking ownership of your department or whatever your role is. Mhmm. Like owning not not like Patrick Lencioni talks about, not compliance but commitment.

Steve: Mhmm. Just

Brad: and that's a that's a that's a big that's a kind of a complicated thing to really instill in a team, I think.

Steve: So how do you instill it?

Brad: I talk about it a lot. It's one thing.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how would like, if what is an example of me being compliant but not committed?

Brad: I think it's like let's say you're a sales guy and you're supposed to get three deals a week. And you're kinda like, well, I went on, you know, 15 appointments and, I got one. And the rest of them, they're yeah. I don't know why. I can't force a seller to say yes.

And and if you're saying thing if you're putting in your notes things like it's a numbers game. Mhmm. Well, wait a minute. You're not owning your your your your commitment. Your commitment is get three, like, figured out.

And you can push back and say, well, Brad, those are uncontrollables there. And that's true. But, like, we all have to commit to even the things that are like, whatever our role is in it and understand that there's there's uncontrollables.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: But let's just influence those and then control what's controllable.

Steve: Right.

Brad: So that that's that's a kind of a deep concept, I think, that takes a while to, like, really grasp. But Yeah. When you're Justin, the finance guy, like, he has no choice but to like, he's got bills to pay. No one cares about his excuses. Right.

So we all have to be that way. We all have to work that way.

Steve: I like ownership. So we actually added that to our our values list. I wanna say beginning no. The end of last year. Mhmm.

It wasn't on it. Mhmm. But, yeah, what I was finding as a business owner was, like, yeah. Like, everyone has, like, their responsibilities and obligations, but some people are a little too damn flippant. Yeah.

Yeah. Right? It's like, yeah. Like, I know, but, like, it didn't get done. It's like and?

Yeah. Right? So I was like, okay. Now, like, if you if this is your department or this is your area and you get done and your response is like, yeah. It just didn't get done.

Okay. Well, then you should go Mhmm. Maybe find another place. Yeah. Yeah.

Right? Because that's just not gonna work here. That's just not gonna fly here.

Brad: Right. Right.

Steve: Yeah. But I didn't realize that till last year. I was like, man, like, that really pisses me off. Mhmm. Right.

And then drive.

Brad: Yeah. I think we don't wanna be mediocre. Mhmm.

Steve: We

Brad: don't wanna be like, okay. We're we're at this certain level and we're good. Yeah. Just want to have a culture of drive. Like, a culture of learning and growing and trying to be better and figuring out what we did wrong or figuring out, not necessarily what we did wrong, but what could we have done better?

I think it's, language leadership is language. Mhmm. You know, I think he talks about the the improved play and the approved play. The proved play is, here's all the things I did and I don't know why it went wrong, but I did all these things right.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: And the improved players, I don't care about that stuff. Like, what could we have done different? It's not a it's not an accusation. It's not we're trying to get people in trouble. But what could we have done different and better?

And that's a that's a healthy way to think about stuff. Mhmm.

Steve: I mean, it's a lot of the ownership component as well.

Brad: Yeah. It is.

Steve: Yeah. Right? And and and I think that that's that's huge. So, what is a violation then of the drive core value?

Brad: That's a good question. Yeah. I don't know if we have that, like, written down. But

Steve: What is something I did and you found out and you're like, see if there's a violation or drive you out of here?

Brad: Yeah. I think it'd be it'd be if if, you know, if if a if a call comes in like, you're a sales guy. A call comes in, someone wants to and and you're like, well, it's, you know, 505, so I'll worry about it tomorrow. It's like, no. Get the deal done.

You know?

Steve: So express some express some urgency.

Brad: Yeah. Urgency. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. You know, we had a I haven't formulated this out yet. Right? I was gonna put some content out there about, like, oil rigs.

Mhmm. Right? And I was like, you know, most so bear with me, guys. Like, this is the first time I said it out loud. Right?

So, like, most salespeople, I look at them kinda like, a really crappy, like, oil, I don't know, oil rig or whatever you would call it. Right? Like, could you imagine if you bought some land in Texas that you knew had oil and you didn't bother surveying it, and you just kinda, like, drilled a little bit. It's like, oh, there's no oil here and just moved on. Yeah.

How successful would you be as an oil guy? Yeah. Not very successful. But we have so many salespeople who are like, how the appointment goes? Like, oh, they have no pains.

Like, well, how long do you do? He's like, well, I mean, they didn't wanna give me anything, so there's nothing there. Yeah. It's like, no. Drive harder.

Right. Drill deeper. Yeah. And find it. Right?

We gotta really, really Yeah. Push for it to make sure that there's no pain. But, like, I think a lot of sales guys are so uncomfortable to actually drill all the way down. They're like, there wasn't really any oil there.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: I'm just gonna move on.

Brad: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So then what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned in your ten years of

Brad: business? One thing that we've gotten really fanatical about in the past probably year, year and a half we've we've feel like we've grown a lot in the past year. But one one thing we gotten fanatical about is this idea of, like, thinking about when you spend marketing money all the way down to when money comes in. We we call that the river. We call that our river.

So when you spend a spend a dollar and then all that happens between that and when you sell the deal and money comes in. And thinking about, like, all the conversions that happen from, like, gross leads to net leads to appointment set, appointment held, AB contract signed, and then b c contract signed, and then closing. And measuring those conversions and, like, just focus hyper focusing on each of those parts of the river. That's been a big Mhmm. Help to us because I think there's another thing about thinking of it as a river.

And I like the analogy because what happens in my little stretch is affected by what's upstream. And what I do affects things downstream. And so it's not like it's not like silos where I I do my thing, give it to you, and you you do your thing. But there's a connection between that whole process. So, one thing we realized recently was we were noticing that our appointment set, let's see.

Our net lead to appointment set conversion was on the low side. It's been low for a while. And then we noticed our our conversion rate on on AB contracts was high. So we're so we're looking at that thinking, well, yeah, we're not setting as enough appointments, but we're converting pretty good. So I guess we're okay.

And then over we start looking at that, and we're like, that's an error code. The error code is we're over qualifying. Yeah. That's the error code. And, like, you start noticing that and you can start you can start fixing that stuff quicker.

Steve: Yeah. So what you're talking about the river because when you first said river, in my head, I'm thinking crossing the river. Okay. But you're talking about upstream versus downstream. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that makes total sense. And, yeah, like, when you said that, like, that's immediately where my head went.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. We're not converting enough appointments. We're not converting enough leads into appointments per se.

Mhmm. Man, we're crushing the appointments. Yeah. Like, one thing that freaks me out is that if we're if our guys are really good at closing. Yeah.

Right? If we're closing too many appointments, like, we're not booking enough appointments.

Brad: Right. We're losing money.

Steve: Yeah.

Brad: We're losing money. Yeah.

Steve: Right. And it's weird because you would think, like, oh, yeah. We're we got killers. We got closes. Like, no.

We're just not spending enough either on marketing Mhmm. Or we don't have, we're we're over qualifying. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

So it's it's fascinating. So you look at it so you said the cash conversion cycle, you look at it like a river.

Brad: Yeah. I mean, the river kinda takes into that as well because that's that's flow. That's how fast it's flowing. Mhmm. But even if you don't if you're not thinking about cash conversion cycle, you're also thinking about the conversions from, like, how much water is moving from marketing down to, appointment set?

Like, is enough water passing through there? Or, actually, marketing to gross leads. Are we getting enough gross leads for the marketing money we're spending? And then gross to net, is that conversion right? Well, that's gonna have that says something about the quality of our marketing And that's a set.

That says something impossibly about our lead management team.

Steve: Right.

Brad: Also, it might say something about our marketing quality.

Steve: Yeah. We're marketing to the right people. Yeah.

Brad: So so measuring all those conversions. And then, like, how fast does it take for marketing money to go out and come back in? That's cash conversion cycle.

Steve: Right.

Brad: So if you get all that dialed, like, that's all we're working on. That's that's every real estate investor is is working on that. Mhmm. That's the whole business right

Steve: there. Right. And then, you know, you guys have heard me talk about, like, you know, real estate is just another sales and marketing business.

Brad: But this

Steve: goes a little bit deeper. Right? It was an analysis. It's that, like Yeah. Are we holding our marketing dollars accountable?

Brad: Mhmm. But

Steve: then that, like, the multiple stages as far as the sales systems. Right? Like, is the lead manager account like, how's the lead manager doing? Mhmm. How's the in, how's the outside sales guys, the acquisition managers doing?

Yep. And then how's the dispo doing? Yeah. And then is the TC also, like, not blowing up the deals? Are are they are they harassing the title company enough?

Right. Are the banks enough? Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. I I feel like one thing I've realized is TC needs to have a little bit of drive. Yeah. It can't just be a paper pusher. It's that person has to be getting really curious with their title rep.

Steve: Yeah. That's actually what we had. So we had Austin, McCurdy on the show last week. Mhmm. And, he I learned something, big from that one.

Not to say I don't learn typically, but, like, for that one, it's like, oh, we want an aggressive TC?

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And then I think back, it's like, yeah. All my best TCs were aggressive. Yeah. Right?

Like, my best TCs were regularly getting complained about. Yeah. Right? I was like, oh, yeah. That makes total sense when someone points it out.

Mhmm. But we don't go to hire aggressive TCs. Right? We hire TCs who we just find out later on, like, they're good, and they're also, like, complained about. Yeah.

So we should just hire aggressive TCs. Right.

Brad: Right. So

Steve: Yep. But, yeah, that that whole that whole flow. And then we have, you know, sharper business solutions. They call it SIPOC. Right?

So I I can't remember the five things. Right? But there's, I think, supply input, product output, and then I can't remember what C is. Mhmm. But it's the same concept.

Right? Like, you know, spend money to get leads. Mhmm. And what happens all the way down? The money comes back.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, we were talking about the promise of the show was that you've added, an extra 300 k in the last three months using AI. Yeah.

Now, AI is fascinating with AI right now. Right? Mhmm. There's, like, all these different promises. I was actually working with somebody, smart kid.

Really, really smart kid. And he had, like, a text chat, an AI text chat for, like, if you text Mhmm. From a direct mail thing. Right? Really smart kid.

And, I tried helping him, like, talking to people instead of relationships. And everyone's like, no. AI is not it. Mhmm. No.

This doesn't make sense. And then chat GPT pops off. And now everyone's talking about AI. So, like, again, I feel bad for this kid because, like, he was ahead of the curve. It's just no one would listen to him.

Yeah. Alright. Like, this sounds risky. Yeah. Now AI is is is is is gotten pretty prevalent.

So talk to me about your journey in learning AI. There are two types of salespeople out there. They're the convincers, and they're the sales professionals. For the first nine years of my career, I was the convincer. Convincers are always out there trying to convince people to meet with them and buy from them.

Their strategy is to try to push hard and never take no for an answer. And by focusing on this strategy, they spend a lot of time on cold calling, the next marketing gimmick, features and benefits, how they and their company are the best, following up until the prospect buys or dies. All of this requires time and energy. The problem isn't the model itself. It's that their approach pushes prospects away.

And this is the same exact thing that happened to me before I figured out the close more sales formula. The solution? Sell customers exactly what they want to buy. That's right. I said it.

We sell customers exactly what they want to buy because I would rather get an easy sell with a happy customer instead of a difficult sell from a customer who felt sold. No. Thanks. I did that before, and it sucks. So here's the deal.

I explain everything in the Close More Sales course. It's an 11 module course that shows you everything you need to know to close more sales. The best part? You can use this in any industry, not just real estate. So no matter what you're selling and to who you're selling to, this formula will lead to easier sales.

Go to closemoresales.com/salesmasterclass, one word, closemoresales.com/salesmasterclass. Journey in learning AI or in in growing, adding AI.

Brad: Yeah. So I don't first of all, I don't really consider myself, like, an AI, guy. Like, I that it wasn't that wasn't, like I'm not, like, necessarily a tech guy that's gotten all that was

Steve: an early adopter of the best AI guys I know are not tech guys. Yeah. Right? They they learned it

Brad: Yeah.

Steve: And applied it. Yeah. Right? It's not, like, software developers.

Brad: Right. Okay. Well, that makes me feel better. Because, what what I noticed actually, a year ago, I remember at Collective Genius Mhmm. Is my first, event there.

In the what is it called? The lightning round at the very end? The the subject of AI came up. And no one really had, you know, hey, is there any companies out there that are doing AI for follow-up? And there was a couple of names thrown out, but I looked them up and they weren't really they didn't really work for us.

So that got my brain thinking about, like, I think the the biggest impact the AI has for our business is follow-up. Mhmm. There there's a lot of other uses, but follow-up is where we're all bad at it. We're bad at follow-up. It's really expensive, and it's actually where all the money is.

Mhmm. Like, we could turn off marketing and probably live off follow-up for six months

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: If we if we, like, really focused on follow-up. So I was trying to figure out what where what is the platforms out there that could do that. I look looked up a couple, and then I came across Woosender.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: Signed up with them, earlier this year. And I had a couple big questions. One of them so Woosender, first of all, is it's an AI platform that it's I think it's the leader in conversational AI.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: The the army uses it, for recruiting. So and the army is forced to, every six months, go out and vet AI companies and see if they're getting the best deal. And they consistently go back to WooCentre. So if we're gonna use AI, we wanna use the best. Anyway, I signed up, start testing it with us.

And and one of the big questions I had is, does it integrate with our CRM? Because I don't wanna have two systems to try and manage. Well, it does, you know, through Zapier connections. It, like, integrates pretty well. And then is it, like, is it gonna say weird things?

Is it gonna, like, you know, what's it gonna do? Well, the thing that I like about Woosender and this this particular AI is it's not gonna go out and it it's not trying to close the deal for you. Mhmm. All it's trying to do is reach into your database or whatever you whatever list you throw at it and find and and try to set an appointment for a real live human being. I like that this AI is not claiming to be better than humans.

It's just like, let me do the hard work and get you on the phone with a seller that wants to sell. And that's that's really the goal of it.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So you had a you had your brain tickled Mhmm. Right, at Collective Genius? Yeah.

And from there, you're like, well, I wonder if anyone's actually doing it. Investigate it. No one was to your satisfaction Yeah. For real estate.

Brad: Mhmm. And so

Steve: you're like, well, let me just figure this out my own. Yeah. And you came across WoosHender. Yeah. And then they answered all your questions?

Brad: Yeah. I mean, well, partly, we had to we had to buy it and figure it out and and yeah. Because they can make all kinds of promises. But until you really test it in your own business, you know if it if it actually is true. Mhmm.

One thing that I was surprised at is AI is like this new tech complicated thing, but the system itself is very simple. It's surprisingly simple to use, you know. Yeah. So, yeah, it answered all those questions that I had.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So, you connected with them earlier this year?

Brad: Yeah. About February is when we signed up and then start testing it for the all through the spring. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. And then from there, you've locked up 10 properties.

Brad: Yeah. So we've, we so AI has been responsible for, reengaging follow-up

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: On on 10 deals that we've we've we've closed. So those deals are deals that a lot of them are deals that went unresponsive. Mhmm. And WooSender went in there and worked them, got them back on the phone. We end up closing those deals.

So, yeah, 10 deals in the first few months.

Steve: Hypothetically, were these if you had the perfect lead manager

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: Would not have been lost.

Brad: If you yeah. If you had a perfectly and a bunch of them.

Steve: Yeah.

Brad: You need a bunch of them because you have one AI system that can do the work of however many leads to the role. This distinction.

Steve: Yeah. Right? So, like, one of your accounts, this AI, I mean, we call them a bot. What do you call this thing?

Brad: I just call it AI. AI platform. Yeah.

Steve: Alright. It's AI platform. Mhmm. By your best estimation, you've been doing this business for about ten years now. Mhmm.

How many lead managers would you have to employ to accomplish what you're doing with this Yeah. AI platform? So so there's And and optimal lead managers.

Brad: Right. It's hard to answer that because there's you're limited by your they do a kind of so you gotta register as a as a business and for TCPA, you know. And they do like a trust trust score. And if you rank high, it tells you how many text message you can send out a minute. Mhmm.

I think we're sitting at, like, 60 right now, which is which is on the high side.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: So if you have enough lead like, how many lead managers would you need to send 60 text messages, SMS messages a minute? That'd be a lot. Mhmm. And then respond to those people as they start responding. So, I mean, I don't know.

A 100? I don't know what the answer is. It's a lot. You know, you could turn this up as high as you want. We don't have it turned up that high.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: But, yeah, there's kinda no limit to what you could do. You're only limited by your trust score. But

Steve: What's your trust score?

Brad: It's so it's I think it's based on the carriers looking at you saying, have you been spamming people?

Steve: If you

Brad: have, then we lower it down a little bit. And you can't quite send as many. But it's still, like, 40 to 60 texts a minute is quite a few.

Steve: I mean, really, just a couple of minutes. Yeah.

Brad: You don't need that many.

Steve: Yeah. Right? If you have your I mean, you'd have that pretty large database. Yeah. I mean, 60 I mean, there's a reason why, like, it's funny.

You know, a few years ago when texting got big, it's, like, every wholesaler was just buying so much data. Mhmm. Like, I still remember, this was 2018, I think. Like, Jerry Vidalas, Jesse Burrell, and I, we bought the entire Phoenix market. Mhmm.

Every house. Yeah. And it didn't take that long to get through that list. Yeah. And Phoenix is one of the top major metros.

You just run out of data. Mhmm. So, really, your bottleneck isn't really how many people or or or your trust score. I mean, it kinda sounds like really. It's just how much more are you gonna spend?

Brad: Right. Right. Yeah. And and I think the other thing the other distinction with this this is not like a text blasting platform. This is, you can do outbound with it.

You can't but it's it's, like, got a layered it's kind of got a multi what's the word? Multi, pronged marketing approach where it'll send you can have it send text text messages, voice drops, emails. So you can turn it loose on a cold list if you want, and it's just gonna start reaching out. And first, it's gonna ask, hey, is this Steve? Well, that's just a that's just an identity check.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: You're not soliciting yet. Right. So what I've been told, and I'm no lawyer, but I've been I've talked to the CEO of Woosendr. What he's telling me is that, and he told me he's no lawyer too, so I should probably say that. But, you know, you can get opt in before you solicit through the system.

So it's not the same as just blasting solicitations to a bunch of people.

Steve: And this is not a text blasting platform. This

Brad: is an

Steve: AI platform.

Brad: It's an AI platform that is its goal is just to set up an appointment. Mhmm.

Steve: Yeah. So talk to me about the voice component.

Brad: Yeah. So, I'm still not sure what all that's what what all that's how that's all gonna fit in, but they are coming out with voice. Mhmm. I've I've heard some demos of it with WuCenter. It sounds really good.

It's there's three, different categories of it. One is standard

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: Which, is whatever that means. Then there's premium and then there's custom, which is where it listens to your voice and sounds just like you. I think there's a lot of use cases where we could use it to to answer calls. We could use it to do to do follow-up. Mhmm.

My guess though is it's still the goal is still gonna be pushing for the appointment.

Steve: Yeah.

Brad: Is is that what I think? Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.

Steve: How obvious is it? Or is it obvious, on the follow-up that I'm dealing with the AI bot?

Brad: No. It's not. It's and I think the reason is it's not getting into deep conversations about your, you know, emotions and all that. Yeah. It's just, hey, does tomorrow at ten, eleven, or twelve work?

You

Steve: know? Right. So in doing this, how many you're saying that, you know, you got 10 deals that you're gonna clear, you know, three k on between those 10. Like, how many leads did it have to come through to drive that?

Brad: So, a lot of those, I think, maybe eight of those deals

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: Were from unresponsive. So I'm trying to answer your question in in this way. We have it set up to where So the way it integrates with the CRM is is when we push a lead from new to unresponsive in our inside our CRM

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: It triggers WooSender to start hitting this person for the next ten days or whatever it is. So it's so the integration with the CRM is like, it's dripping stuff over to WooSender every time we need it to to start hammering a a seller. So I don't know the answer to that, but, like, we do about something like thirty thirty leads a week. Mhmm. And we did that, probably eight of those in a two and a half months or something.

Yeah. Something like that.

Steve: With this in place because you have it you said you have it set up with your, your Salesforce. Right? Yeah. Mhmm. You're using left main?

Yeah. Alright. So you have the setup with Salesforce left main through Zapier.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: With this in place, do I still need to have a drip system?

Brad: I've I've thought about that. I thought about turning cadences off because, you know, left main uses what's called cadences for drip.

Steve: Right.

Brad: Then I thought, why not just run them both simultaneously and a b test it, you know? Because we are doing drip with WooCenter. You can you can customize all those campaigns. If it goes into a long term status, we just tell WooSender just hit it every two weeks or we we customize all that. So you don't need to.

Yeah. You could do you could do it all out of WooSender. I just thought, let's just do it both and see what happens.

Steve: That's probably the smart thing to do. Mhmm. But probably not necessarily something I would have done. Yeah. So alright.

So, guys, if you guys are interested in checking this out, right, like, again, you know, Brad's closed an extra 10 deals, in just three months.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Bringing in 300 k. So if you guys are interested, check out the link, below, so you can see if this makes sense for you guys.

Brad: I should say I should say we're we're authorized resellers of Woosendr. What we're what we're doing is taking Woosendr and then customizing it for real estate investors. And then, and then actually providing, better value better value to real estate investors through that.

Steve: That. So Can you want you wanna articulate what you mean by providing better values?

Brad: Well, we we give you all the all the integration that can connect to your CRM, assuming your CRM can work with with, with Zapier. Mhmm. And then we we give you all of our, custom automations, our custom campaigns, and and pipelines, which is Right. Which and and and then also the AI library. So the AI, you can actually train.

You train the AI to sound like you and to respond the way you want it to respond. We've we've customized that. We can give that to you. You can go in and customize it further. Right.

Steve: So it's trained.

Brad: It's trained. Yeah.

Steve: Right. So it's not like, hey. You're just gonna sign up. And here you go. Right.

It's like it's trained specifically for real estate Mhmm. That's working for you Yeah. Today. Yeah. And the point here is not, like, here's what you're gonna get.

The point is you guys don't have to.

Brad: Right.

Steve: Right? So it's more or less working out of the box. Yeah. Right? Because I think one of the big things like, yeah, you can get AI platforms anywhere.

Mhmm. Right? Like, that's not necessarily revolutionary. It's the fact that out of the box, they can start using it and drumming up appointments for your closers to go run.

Brad: Yeah. I think the other thing is this is a little getting a little technical with AI, but there's a lot of AI platforms that are built on chat GPT and, like, large language models. This one is not built on chat GPT. It's built on a selective language model. So it's it's controlled.

Mhmm. Its job is to set an appointment. There's a bunch of a home built AI bots out there that people talk about.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: But and they're impressive when you listen to the demos because they can have a conversation. But how is that actually gonna work in a business setting? Like, what's gonna happen? Are you gonna make promises to me about like, how's that all gonna work legally? It it gets to be a nightmare.

And, actually, all the big business, they don't want anything to do with the large language models. They want the selective language models.

Steve: Yeah.

Brad: So WU Center is a controlled system that is set for specific business use, which is set an appointment. Yeah. And that's the power of it. Yeah.

Steve: Right. So, again, just emphasis here. It's not based off of chat gbt Yeah. Large language model. It's based off language models that's designed to get a desired outcome Right.

Which is an appointment. Right. Right. Yeah. Don't don't add your different different, what's the word looking for?

We don't care about the history Mhmm. Right, of the world. Right. Right. It's not yeah.

We don't care about, you know, any political commentary Yeah. Or beliefs. It's just, like, say the things that need to be said to get us an appointment. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That is a great point. I forgotten I forgotten that we talked about that. Yep. Alright.

So, like, you know, looking back right now, you know, we've done a lot in the last few months. Mhmm.

Brad: So what

Steve: does your business look like now versus back when you when you first went off on your own? You spent countless weeks going back and forth with the homeowner only to lose a deal because the seller changed their mind, another wholesaler made an unreasonable offer, or what the seller needs from the sale, you just can't pay. Now imagine you've got the ultimate control on a property that you just locked up, meaning you're on title and every decision has to go through you, eliminating virtually every external threat. That's why the installment method was created. Through installment payments, you have full control of the property as your name is now on the title.

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Brad: So yeah. When we first went off on our own, I think we did five deals that year. Yeah. Totally different. It I had one one VA that was working for me then doing kind of the the, follow-up and stuff like that.

Now we've got we got a COO in place, and he's awesome. He's really good. We've got we've got a couple, acquisition guys in place now. We got a dispo guy in place. We got a full dispo team that handles all the novations, like, with listing agents and a TC.

We got a great lead management team, couple couple lead managers. One of them is actually in Jamaica right now, riding out the storm. So I'm thinking of her, Kelly. And the other one is, dealing with the his son has got meningitis. He's dealing with that.

So our lead managers are going through some stuff right now, but but we've got a great team.

Steve: We've got

Brad: a really good team. I think that's a that's a big difference. Yeah. And then the results start to show as well.

Steve: Right. And this is kinda you said earlier, process over profits. Yeah. Right?

Brad: Sounds like also team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the profits come.

It's just that, you gotta pay attention to profits too. You can't push push process the whole time.

Steve: Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. What would you do if money was no object?

Brad: I don't know if I'd do anything different other than just continue to grow. And I I think the reason our our goal for being in business is to build a team that provides opportunities for for our team, ourselves, our clients, our vendors. So the more we can provide opportunities, that's that's that's fulfilling. So yeah.

Steve: Yeah. And, what is your epic life goal?

Brad: Epic life goal. I don't know. I haven't thought that far ahead.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a purpose? Something you're driving towards?

Brad: I think just it it's it's all focused on on having a business that provides opportunities. So

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's important about that?

Brad: I think I think one thing we've realized is, you know, when we first got in the business, it was all about trying to make money. Mhmm. And and that's important. But then you realize that you're you're affecting people. You're the the people we buy houses from, they're these are moments in their life that they're never these are pivotal moments that they won't forget about.

Like, when you have to sell your house or because of some big thing happening, they're that's a significant moment. And if we can make that experience better, then that's that's then we're winning, you know. That's a good thing. And if we can also so that's providing some kind of opportunity in that hardship that they're going through that makes their life a little better. Mhmm.

And then the same thing with our team and our everybody we we touch. But I think it was a it was a real big impactful thing. I don't know if several years ago kinda realizing that we're touching people at a very impactful time in their life. Absolutely. So we gotta keep that in mind.

Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, I would say for myself personally, you know, when I first got in the business, it's purely out of greed. Right? It's just pure greed, pure extreme capitalism. Right?

It's all I cared about. Mhmm. And then I feel like, you know, it's a Christmas curl, you know. Scrooge. Yeah.

Alright. I wake up one day and, like, my heart's touched. And it's because, like, when you make a positive impact on those around you, it's like, holy crap. Mhmm. Probably rewarding.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. So yeah. I I totally get that.

What is your biggest struggle today?

Brad: I think it's, navigating through a little bit of this this market right now and getting getting getting our deals, sold and under contract and moved. So we've been working on that. We're we're getting stuff moved, but that's probably the biggest struggle. And then it's also continuing to build the team. Continuing to build the culture in the team.

And that's not that that's not happening, but that's always gonna be something we continue to to push.

Steve: What are you doing more to get, to become our effective moving properties? We're

Brad: one thing we're trying to do is is a little bit of the marketing. So for a while, we were marketing our innovations as, like, discounting them for the condition and saying things like, basically saying, hey. If you need us to put on a new roof, we'll do the roof. Whatever. Well, here's what was happening.

People would come in and offer not even offer what we're listing it for. They they discount for the roof, and then we're like, okay. Well, let's run it back up when we do and they don't wanna do that. Mhmm. So we're we're thinking we're starting to switch it to where we list it higher as if the roof's done.

And then, and then more pitch it as, like, hey. Look look how much equity you're getting by by buying right here. You know? You got some equity built in. So switching that marketing a little bit, I think, will help.

Steve: Anchor them a little higher.

Brad: What's that?

Steve: Anchor them a little higher.

Brad: Yeah. Anchor them higher. Exactly. That's what it is. We're anchoring them too low and then they're going lower.

Steve: Oh, yeah. It's, Yeah. If you price for condition, they'll still come below.

Brad: Yeah. They don't care. They They don't care that you'll put on a roof. You know, they they want the discount.

Steve: Yeah. And then and maybe they would care if they find out later, but they already saw the pictures. Yeah. They already saw the price. Yeah.

And then the words don't matter anymore. Right.

Brad: Yeah.

Steve: It's, it's it's fascinating, you know. Like, lesson I learned painfully Mhmm. Multiple times is you talk about the numbers before anything else.

Brad: Right.

Steve: It's all in reference to that number. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

And what are you doing to build a better team?

Brad: We're we're we're pushing a lot of, we're having a lot of leadership conversations, I guess, is the way to put it. Having a lot of leadership conversations and trying to one of the things we talked about is, like, we gotta talk the same language. We gotta speak the same language. So when we yeah. The the way we think has to be all the same.

Like, we gotta be, you know, maybe the most most basic thing is, like, working out of the same CRM, not having, like, multiple spreadsheets that work. Now we're not talking the same language. So that's important. And, just trying to, like, systematically work on leadership. It's not something that just comes because you have experience.

You gotta, like, work on it like you work like sales guys work on their sales skills.

Steve: Right. Yeah. One of the best in shared language was, we hired a SEAL team leaders. Mhmm. They were pretty good.

Yeah. I I have you are you familiar with them?

Brad: No. I'm with SEAL

Steve: SEAL team leaders?

Brad: No. Is that a book? Or you you mean just SEALs in general?

Steve: No. No. We had, so Larry Yatch, he was Oh, yeah.

Brad: Yeah. I am familiar with them.

Steve: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when he came in, like, the the biggest lesson he I I took from him was on the importance of language Yep.

And then the importance of, coordinated action. Yep. Right? And something that, you know, like, we gotta make sure the front lines know what the top's doing. At top's gonna know what the front line's doing, and we have to have that communication to be as effective as possible Mhmm.

To coordinate action. At that point, like, you know, you're unstoppable. Yeah. But what happens is the front lines and the guys at the top are seeing completely different things. Right.

Right? Like, you know, as a commander of an operation, maybe the front lines are, you know, kicking in doors and, like, you're you're seeing completely different vision of maybe a vacation or whatever and, like, you cannot Yeah. Coordinate action. So Yeah. If you, you already know them.

I I recommend Yeah.

Brad: I know Nat I know Annie. I I've never met Larry, but I know Annie. Yep.

Steve: And then how do you measure success?

Brad: Well, profit's part of it Mhmm. For sure. And then I think it's also if if our team is, like, if we're happy working together, like, if we're if we'd like to show up to work, and that's a that's that's something that a lot of companies don't have.

Steve: Right.

Brad: You know, Patrick Lencioni talks about that as well. It's almost like this new concept of, like, it's okay it's it's okay to build a company that people actually like to go to work at. That's a that that doesn't have to be a unicorn.

Steve: It doesn't have to be. But there's this balance. Right? Yeah. Eric Brewer has laughed about this, which is, like, you know, a lot of organizations.

Like, what are you proud of? It's like, my culture. Okay. Then what do you struggle with? Accountability.

Yeah. Right? It's like, well, typically, you know, if you have, like, a fun culture or a culture everyone enjoys working at, accountability is tough. But, I mean, it sounds like you got your head in the right place. Yeah.

And what is your superpower?

Brad: I you know what? I've always had I've always struggled with this one until I read Five Dysfunctions of a Team. And I remember that that CEO, I forget her name, Catherine, I think. She she was asked that question, and this is all fictional, but she says, kind of the ability to cut through the fog and get to the heart of an issue. Mhmm.

Steve: And I

Brad: thought, okay. I think I think that's that's what I'm a little better at Yeah. Than than others. So I think that's it.

Steve: Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. So you can get to the solution Yeah. Or the, you can get to what needs to be done faster.

Brad: Yeah. Maybe, like, articulate the problem a little better. Like, kinda see it and articulate it.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can't articulate the problem.

Brad: Yeah. And then How

Steve: are you gonna fix it?

Brad: We're just running around circles. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an incredibly valuable superpower, particularly as a business owner.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? The challenge, then I have at times. It's like if that's what I'm good at, then I'm the one that's always fixing problems.

Brad: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've got some good problem solvers. Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. Okay.

Steve: And then what would Justin say is your superpower?

Brad: I think he thinks I'm good at sales. Mhmm. And I guess I'm alright at it. But yeah. Kind of the ability to, to connect with people.

Yeah. So yeah. He's he's mentioned that a few times.

Steve: Yeah. And you didn't believe you were a salesperson?

Brad: No. I didn't.

Steve: No. Would you say your communication has changed, your communication style or methodology has changed since you quit your job?

Brad: Yeah. For sure. It has. Yeah. You mean ten years ago?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Were you were you more hard? Were you more, short?

Brad: No. Back then, I was more probably unsure and more shy and more well, not I don't know about shy. I was shy as a kid. But I was more yeah. Probably less sure and less so I've had to become more direct.

Mhmm. And that that's it took me a long time to get that way. So I I I'm definitely more direct with people. And and, so I was not direct ten years ago. So Gotcha.

That's probably the biggest thing. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, that's one of the hardest things too. Right? Because, like, you're afraid if you offend them, they're not gonna like you. Yeah.

If they don't like you, they're you're gonna lose the business.

Brad: Right.

Steve: But It's really not as important as we think it is. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough, though.

It's tough. What is your biggest regret?

Brad: I think it's not maybe not having personal growth fast enough. Like, I think we probably could have avoided a lot of problems if if I had grown as a leader faster. You know? I know that for sure. But yeah.

But at the same time, you kind of you you also look at it like, life is just a process. And so you you learn as you go, and it's okay to have some failures. That's good because it it builds some character.

Steve: Yeah. What's your biggest failure?

Brad: I think it's I I think it's just just kinda floundering through business for for a long time Mhmm. Until we until we started to figure it out in the past couple years. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. You hired a coach, though, from the get go. Mhmm. So you saw the value Yeah. In in personal development.

Yeah. Was there something after that? It's like, you know what? This isn't I because you hired a coach from day one. Yeah.

Or it sounds like near day one.

Brad: Near day one. I it wasn't I didn't think of it as, like, personal development. I just thought of it as, like, teach me how to do the business.

Steve: Got it.

Brad: You know? And just give me the tools.

Steve: Give me the tools. Get out of my way.

Brad: Show me what to do. Yeah. Yeah. And then you realize that you actually have to learn to, I don't know. You gotta learn how to how to how to how to hire people and how to keep people accountable and all that kind of stuff.

And that took a long time to not embrace. I just didn't know how to do it. Mhmm. I still know how to do it.

Steve: Well, there's there's two different things too. Right? Because there's, like, learning how to do it. Mhmm. And there's learning how to fail at it.

Yeah. And learn learn how to get better at it and learn how to do it.

Brad: Yeah. And you can't

Steve: this isn't one of those things, like, oh, I can learn from their mistakes. It's not you have to go through it. Mhmm. Right? What was it?

There's a something I've heard. I was like, you can't get around this. Like, you have to go through it to learn it.

Brad: Yeah. You can't

Steve: Yeah. Like, you can learn the principles out of book.

Brad: Mhmm. Right.

Steve: But you have to screw up. Right. There's all that's the only way to get the experience.

Brad: Yep. Yeah. That's true.

Steve: What book have you gifted more than any other?

Brad: I think Language is Leadership or Leadership is Language.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: That's a great book.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. What would you say? I know you talked about, prove versus improve. Mhmm.

What would you say is the biggest lesson you took from that book?

Brad: Asking questions the right way instead of, asking and assuming that there's no problems.

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: But asking asking things like, hey, you know, this is one we talked with our our dispo team about. It was like, hey. What's gonna keep that deal on Monday from from from closing? Mhmm. Instead of like, hey.

We're good Monday. Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Brad: Yeah. We're good. Yeah. But what's gonna keep it from closing? Well, haven't heard from the lender in a couple days.

Yeah. That's a problem possibly a problem. But that may not come up unless you ask it right.

Steve: So yeah. So what's funny about that is that it's also a sales question. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

But the biggest challenge or maybe the not the biggest challenge, but one of the things that I I consistently failed to do is taking something I learned over here and applying it over here. Mhmm. Right? So, like, the one I I've mentioned before is, like, before I got in the business, I learned the value of saving. Right?

My parents were fiscally conservative. They saved money. I hated how much money they never spent. Right? Like, they were good with money.

Yep. And so I learned a lot of good financial principles, right, in my personal life. I had a four zero one k Yeah. A Roth IRA, savings account, all that stuff. Right?

Paid every credit card in full no matter what. Had a near 800 credit score. Mhmm. And then I get the business. And then we're spending, like, we're drunk sailors.

Brad: Mhmm.

Steve: Spending money, like, it's going out of style, like, hustle culture. You don't pay yourself. You put every dollar into it. Yeah. And then you learn profit first.

Yeah. Hey. Wait a minute. I already knew this in my personal life. Why didn't I apply this in my business life?

Yeah. So your lesson here, like, hey. What might stop this deal from closing on Monday? Is what stopped you from signing with the other investor? Mhmm.

Right. It's the same thing. Yeah. I know. But we don't translate it until I read that book.

And I was like, duh. Right. Right. Why am I not applying sales principles and leadership principles?

Brad: You know what else I've noticed is, sales is the same thing as coaching. Yeah. It's exactly the same. It is. Like, we read read the coaching habit Mhmm.

As a team, six months ago. It's like, this is all just sales stuff. In fact, it's like coaching, sales, and leadership are are maybe maybe the same thing

Steve: in

Brad: a lot of ways.

Steve: They're all the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. They're all exactly the same. So we actually recorded something, earlier today.

Really say, I guess, it's not quite the same. But what I was gonna talk about there is, like, selling coaching, the same thing as selling coaching. Right? Like Mhmm. I guess just, like, selling someone to buy our coaching program is the same thing as, like, Nick Saban with sell student.

Right? It's the same Yeah. Because, like, recruiting is still sales. And then, like, the someone shared this with me. I can't remember who it was, but they talked about, like, Ed Mylett talked about, like, the power of persuasion is the single most valuable skill.

Because leading someone, teaching someone, getting someone to change their behavior like, if you look at sales if you look at getting someone to sell their house to you, what do you have to do? You have to convince them to change from their current state because their current state is staying in that property.

Brad: Yeah. You have to get them you have

Steve: to sell a behavior change. Right? Because the default is to stay in the house. And then getting someone to change their behaviors as a salesperson, like, hey, you need to do things differently because if you don't, you're gonna get the same outcome.

Brad: Yeah. Yeah. Same thing as,

Steve: same thing as parenting. Same thing as teaching.

Brad: Right.

Steve: It's all the same. Yeah. Yeah. So it's fascinating. But, again, like, one of the greatest challenges I have personally is taking these things out that work clearly over here, applying it over here.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's nuts. Alright.

So, guys, you know, hope you guys got value. If you guys are interested in checking out what, what Brad's going on, click the link below. And then, again, if you guys have value if you guys have value, please share this with somebody. Right? That way, we can all grow together.

What are some last thoughts you'd like to leave, everybody with?

Brad: I think just continue continue to grow and don't be too hard on yourself as you go through go through challenges. And, I think every step, even if there's challenges, there's you can grow on that. And and if even if there are huge problems, you got a good story. So, you know, it it it all it all moves towards a a good outcome.

Steve: I'm gonna challenge you a little bit here because I feel like you beat yourself up a lot on this on today's show. So are you taking your own advice?

Brad: Yeah. I am. Yeah. Okay. No.

I I look at it that way. It's like you can yeah. There's there's there's a lot that you can grow from

Steve: Yeah. From what you can

Brad: do. Yeah.

Steve: If someone wanted to connect with you, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

Brad: Brad@riverxai.com. Alright. Probably the best way.

Steve: Perfect. Alright. Thank you so much. Alright. Thank you.

Appreciate it. Yep. Thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you guys next time. Out to Steve Train. Jump on the Steve Train.

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