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Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disrupters. Today, we've got Chris Miles with Money Ripples, and he flew in from Salt Lake City, Utah to talk about the importance of building passive income to go along with your active business. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer for some of the top wholesalers in the country, and I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires. One question I get all the time is how do I become one to 100 millionaires?

The information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. Take consistent action, and you will become one. If you wanna get there faster, send me a DM on Instagram, and we'll see if we can help you. If you get value out of the show, please tag your friend below. Share this episode right now.

That way we that way we can all grow together. You ready?

Chris Miles: Let's do it.

Steve: Alright. So first question is what got you into real estate?

Chris: Not on purpose. You know? You know, back in the early two thousands, you know, I was a financial adviser teaching the same old crap that they all do, right, which is save money in mutual funds, and real estate's not that great. There's a guy I trained to be a financial adviser. Right?

And he went to leave. This is 2005. He left to go partner up with his dad to do real estate investing. Mhmm. And I thought, okay.

Good luck. We'll see how you Poor soul. Yeah. Poor soul. I'm sure you'll be broke and come back to work for me again.

Right? Well, about four months later, it's right after Christmas, between Christmas and New Year's, that right before 2006, I call him up just to wish him happy, you know, happy Christmas. You know, I'm British now. So wish him merry Christmas, happy New Year. And, and as and as I call him up, I'm like, well, how are things going with this real estate gig?

He's like, man, it's awesome. My my dad has already doubled his income as a professor at the local university. I was like, oh, come on, Doug. That's that's too good to be true. Right?

As you always hear people say about us in real estate. Mhmm. And he's like, no, man. Like, it's legit. It's happening.

And so we got in this argument about about what's better, stocks, real estate, stocks, real estate. Finally, he just stopped me. He said, Chris, what principles are you teaching your clients? What do you mean by principles? You mean, like, rule 72, comp and interest?

He's like, dude, you're not even close. Yeah. He's like, alright. I'll dumb it down for you. How about this?

How many of your clients are financially free? Like, really financially free where they don't worry about money? And I said, well, let's see. I've got some retired doctors. They watch CNN.

So they watch CNN. They're always freaking out. So no. Like, none of them. They're all worried about running out of money.

He said, well, great job, Chris. Way to go. Well, how about this, Chris? He's like, if any anybody's got this figured out, it should be you guys as financial advisers. So how many of you are financially free, not off the commissions you're earning, not off the trails and the renewals and all that stuff, but actually doing these mutual fund investments?

How many of you guys are financially free? I'm like, well, I know that some of these guys have been working since the late seventies, and they're still working. So I don't know. None? Maybe one guy?

And I found out that that guy wasn't either. Right? He was just all show. You know, all hat, no cattle, they say, in in Texas.

Steve: Right? Instagram famous.

Chris: Instagram famous, right, in today's world. And, so he's like, well, there's your problem. I'm like, alright. Well, give me the answer. What's the answer then?

He's like, dude, you just got done an argument with me about why real estate sucks. Why would I even talk to you about this? And so he did a whole sales takeaway thing that I I don't think he even intentionally did it, but it was enough to be like, dude, you got me here. Like, give me something. He's like, alright.

If you're serious, and I really don't think you are, go get this book by Robert Kiyosaki called Who Took My Money, which to sum it up for you guys, you know, mutual funds suck. Right?

Steve: Right.

Chris: They're horrible. He's like, and then listen to this AM talk radio show because it's prepodcast. Right? AM talk radio show that has these two real estate investors, you know, from the local area and just listen to it. And so I did.

For the next few months, started listening to it, got intrigued, started to find out more from him because they wouldn't even teach strategy at all. It drove me nuts. They're all talking about principles. Right? These economic principles.

They're big libertarians, right, and all that kind of stuff. And, which was awesome. You know? But I was like, yeah. But how do I do it?

And, and so I started to learn from him a little bit and and some of those things and and really just blew my mind. Like, it expanded my mind more and more. And so 2006, I was in my starter home. I actually went and turned into a rental. I turned around, sold it to investor at at full appraisal, and then went and leased it back as a as a renter so then I can then sublease it to somebody else.

So I wanted to basically pull out all the equity, but not own the property, but still get rent off of it. And so that was my first real estate deal back in 2006.

Steve: Attorney primary, leasing it back, and then subletting it Mhmm. For cash flow. Yeah. Fascinating. So the this radio show, were these the real estate radio guys, or are these someone else?

Chris: Nope. Somebody else. Like, just local. Someone local.

Steve: Guys. Yeah. What principles? So he mentioned principles, and he wants to talk about anything else besides principles. Now I'm curious.

Yeah. Where are the principles?

Chris: Yeah. So they had, like, these 13 principles even printed on this little black card. Right? They call it, like, the producer revolution, you know, and basically by being a creator, you know, instead of a consumer and that kind of thing. And so, like, one of the principles that really stuck with me that really changed the way I thought about money and even how I dealt with money was that dollars follow value created.

Right? I mean, just a simple principle that you want more money, stop focusing on the money, start focusing on how can I serve people, solve problems, create more value in a way that money is just a natural byproduct? Mhmm. Right? And, and so I started obsessing over that.

I'm like, well, yeah. How do I create the win win? You know, like, how do I get people what they want? Which was weird because even as a financial advisor, I did I did that for four years prior to that. Right?

I started, like, right after 09/11. And and money always seemed mysterious. Right? But when they put it that way and they say, no. This is not this is not some weird little game.

This is formulaic. Like, there's natural laws of the universe that naturally has to follow it. You know, like, value really, the principle is value follows value, but in our world, dollars follow value. Right? And so when I started focusing on that, it was amazing how it demystified everything.

And Really? It wasn't just like the zero sum game. They talked a lot about scarcity and abundance. Right? Like, abundance is the secret to wealth.

It's one of those other principles. Right? You know, like, they talked about abundance. Like, you know, not believing that there's a zero sum game out there. Because a lot of times you people believe that you have to lose in order to have somebody else win or vice versa.

If you win, somebody else has to lose. Right? Right.

Steve: Well, there's a lot of that scarcity mindset. We met very recently. Right? A billionaire.

Chris: Yeah. Right?

Steve: And he's just talking about, basically how he's created value and so on. And the comment that was made in the room was like, you don't sound like a billionaire

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: Because for most people, if you're a billionaire, you had to screw over a lot of people. Yeah. That's the worldview, is that? The worldview. Yep.

That's not how the world works.

Chris: No. Not at all. Like, if you really look at most millionaires and millionaires, especially when you get to know them. Right? Mhmm.

And I'm not saying there aren't people out there that also have scarcity world that know how to produce millions and billions of dollars. Right? But the vast majority are people like us. We're out there trying to create value. We're out there trying to make people's lives better.

I mean, even Bezos. You know, you can say whatever you want about him, but still, what he's created created a lot of freaking value for people. A lot of people create work created more wealth for themselves because he existed. The Internet is another example. I mean, exchange creates wealth is another one.

Right? The faster the rate of exchange, the faster that money can change hands of people, the more wealth is created.

Steve: The velocity of money, which might be a topic, might be a little over the top at this moment. Mhmm. Let me ask you another question because you brought up Who Took My Money Yeah. By Robert Kiyosaki.

Chris: Right.

Steve: I have not read that book. What are what was the biggest one or two takeaways from that book?

Chris: Really, it just get dives into why mutual funds are not the cat's meow. Right? For those that still use that phrase.

Steve: So and I'm asking this because I read, money master of the game by Tony Robbins.

Chris: Right.

Steve: And there's a section in there where where he talks about the biggest scam of mutual funds is these no load funds. Uh-huh. And those no load funds are actually have a three or 4% load that they just don't tell you about. Yeah. Is that what they talk about in that book?

Chris: You know, honestly, I don't even remember it's been so long. Yeah. But I wouldn't be surprised because yeah. There's I mean, just like four zero one k's. People are like, well, I don't have any fees on those because there's no sales commission.

Yeah. But there's 17 fees that come out administrative fees that come out with $4.00 1 k, which usually total at least one to 2% a year that you never even notice comes out.

Steve: And this is a lot. Like, we had, Blake Selby here a couple weeks ago.

Chris: Mhmm. You're

Steve: talking about the different fees and settlement statement. Yeah. All these junk fees that you might not be paying attention to that if you don't pay attention to add up pretty quick.

Chris: I sure

Steve: do. So you turn your primary. Sounds like, basically, more or less turn into a master lease where you can lease it for more Yeah. Cash flow. That was your first deal.

What was your next transaction after that?

Chris: Next transaction was going broke. So, I mean, I did I guess I did it helped a few other transactions where we, like, did some, like, kinda like equity stripping, really. Right? I mean, that's what some of those guys were doing a lot back in 2006, 2007. It was like, hey.

Mark is appreciating, kinda like it is now. Right? And so I was like, hey. Strip all the equity out, move it into more properties, and just keep stripping, move it. Strip it, move it.

Right? And Is that

Steve: the words they were using?

Chris: Yeah. Equity stripping was the actual word. They even equity stripped cars, you know, exotic cars.

Steve: That's a word that's an expression that's frowned upon. Yeah. I I think in the in in the legal world, equity stripping.

Chris: Oh, yeah. Well and and it didn't work too well. Actually, one of those guys actually ended up in jail, you know, as a result. That's

Steve: why I'm asking that question.

Chris: Yeah. Well, the problem that he had was, like, you know, he had raised tons of capital. Right? Yeah. Him and his partners, he had his own inner circle.

Problem is they started, you know, borrowing money from other people. So he's like, hey. I'll pay you 5% a month. That's what the hard money rate was. 5% a month for his inner circle.

But then those guys are like, well, hey. We can create value by, you know, borrowing money from our friends and family. And so they're like, we'll pay you 4% a month. And so it went on. Right?

And so he built this huge empire, 120,000,000 empire that collapsed.

Steve: It was a Ponzi scheme.

Chris: Yeah. It became like a Ponzi scheme. There was assets, so it technically wasn't. But the problem is that they weren't cash flowing. Right?

They he was not focused on the cash flow and the profit.

Steve: You cannot create 60% year on year yield at scale.

Chris: No. He's just trying to flip. He was just a flipper. It was really all he was. A a glorified flipper that just held on to these properties in hopes that he might do something with them.

Steve: He was betting on the appreciation.

Chris: He sure was.

Steve: So you got maybe a handful of deals, and then the recession hit you? And the recession hit. Yeah. Alright. So what'd you do with the recession?

Chris: So yeah. So 2007. So by 2006, I was financially independent. I was like You

Steve: were a genius.

Chris: I have to work. Yeah. I'm 28 years old, almost 29. Like, I'm awesome. You know?

And I got the Midas touch. Whatever I touch turns the goal. I was like, bing. You know? Mhmm.

But the problem was, of course, that, you know, that ego bites you. Right? Like, there's always a humbling. You know? And so, yeah, 2007, I came out of retirement.

I was like, I'm gonna teach people how to get a rat race. I've I've partnered up some other guys who are in the same situation. We were focused towards real estate investors, most of them doing the same kind of strategies. Right? Not really focusing on cash flow.

And then and then I remember the summer, I was like, okay. I bought a new house. I got my little McMansion. Right? And that was on my dream home.

And I remember trying to get a cash out refinance. I'm like, I'm gonna cash out this money, use it, and start investing with. And I remember in July that the bank said, oh, you know what? We're changing a few of the rules right now. If you can get your credit score up two points by next month, then we'll give you the loan.

August rolls around. They're like, great job. But just last week, we just changed the rules a little bit. We need you to go do x, y, and z Mhmm. Before we'll give you the loan.

September rolls around. I'm like, alright. Let's get this done. Okay? Like, I've got a 150,000 equity stuck in this property, and I was doing the Dave Ramsey thing.

I was just throwing money in because, hey, I don't have anything else to do with money. Throw it in the equity because I can always always pull it back out. Right. Because, you know, you can always get a HELOC. That's why I hate velocity banking.

Right? When people, like, use that HELOC strategy because I'm like, I watched it not work because pretty soon they said September, like, we can't give you a loan. We're not doing any cash or refinances, especially if you're a business owner.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: And so I had this property. It was stuck, then everything went upside down with the markets, everything else. Everything started depreciating. I was now upside down the house, and I couldn't even short sell it. So by 2009, next thing I know, there's a knock on my door.

And, they're saying, like, hey. I just bought your house at auction for, like, $3.42. I'm like, dude, we're trying to we had an offer at $5.40 just a few months ago. Like, yep. It was oh, of course, it was, you know, good old Lehman Brothers.

So Yeah. I got my $300 settlement. It was great. But, you know, but, yeah, like, next thing I know, there's a knock on the door. I'm like, hey.

We're about to have a baby. I rent it from you for two weeks? You know? And had to get out of it. And so that same time, my other property, you know, like the starter home I had Mhmm.

I was able to get out of that. Luckily, kinda breaking even. At least didn't have to pay much extra beyond cleaning it up. Mhmm. But they got trashed by my renters, so that wasn't good, you know, because they were kinda like section eight tenants, you know, and and it just it just went downhill.

Like, the next thing and and I wasn't tracking my money. Right? Like, why was it tracking the cash flow? So I went from you know, I was, like, millionaire to upside down millionaire. And when I was, like, now upside down over a million dollars, I was in the hole about 15,000, 16,000 a month between my business and my personal life, and I was just sinking fast.

Steve: How were you a million dollars upside down? Mostly from,

Chris: you know, negative equity in the properties and stuff like that.

Steve: Like There's two houses or more than two houses?

Chris: At that time, there was two that had

Steve: one on it. So between your primary and the other one that you sublet? Because that one, you were able to sell it.

Chris: Right? Eventually. Yeah. But at the time, you know, at one point like, in 2008, I was about over $1,000,000 in debt. So then I started trying to liquidate.

Right? Like, sell off whatever I could. I'd already run up all my credit cards. I'd, you know, got a nice Mercedes. I basically turned that back in to the dealer.

I said, listen. I'm gonna go late on it. You're gonna take it anyways. Here you go. They end up auctioning it for 30,000 less than I owed.

And I remember

Steve: times were those times were

Chris: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I remember even the collection guy. Like, I'm, like, trying to I'm working late in the office that night, and, like, I got a call from a collector saying, hey. You know, you owe $30,000 on this.

Can you get you know, can you can we work out a deal? Can you do a monthly payment? And the payment was, like, $1,200 a month. I'm like, you realize that the previous payment was almost $1,200 a month. If I could have make made that payment, I would have still had this car.

You wouldn't be calling me right now. Yeah. And I was like, sorry. I can't pay you. Well, when can you?

I'm like, I don't know, but I know I will. Because because I was like, I'm not gonna file for bankruptcy. I'm stubborn as heck. I'm gonna make it work. And he's like, you know what?

You're the reason why this country isn't the problem it is today. Like, you're the reason why we're in this mess. Mhmm. And And I was like, I just went off. I was like, dude, you realize, like, I've hired people.

Like, I've paid people hundreds of thousands of dollars. Do not give me that crap. Like, I've created jobs. Like, now I I'm barely employed, but, you know, I did create jobs up to that point. You know?

Like, so don't even give me this crap that I destroyed the country. Like and I just hung up the phone, and I was so pissed. I had, I

Steve: went through my own challenges, right, and had to deal with my own fair share of debt collectors. Yeah. And there were some nice ones. Yeah. But there were some really dumb ones out there.

They They were really rude, and Oh, yeah. It was just amazing. Like, you're really talking to me like this, and, I never hung up on any of them. Yeah. What I did was I would just kinda return their their tone

Chris: Uh-huh. And I

Steve: would be the one that would get hung up on. So I still remember I was like, didn't you just threaten me to sue me? He said, yeah. I said, then why are we still talking? And then he hung up on me.

So alright. So a million dollar in debt. Mhmm. Were you still a financial adviser, or were you just real estate at that point?

Chris: I was. No. I was I I mean, basically, my real estate was gone. Right? I was I hit the reset button, I mean, without But

Steve: you were still giving people financial advice? Yeah. Related to mutual funds or to a real estate?

Chris: No. So I was done with mutual funds by 2006. I'm like, no more. Right? But I started switching the tone because 2,007, when I realized I was starting to be negative cash flow, and I was starting to see my savings dwindle, my credit cards run up.

I'm like, okay. I'm back in the rat race. And and I'm one of those guys I can't teach something I'm not doing. Right? Like, I can only teach something that I'm actually practicing.

So I was like, alright. I can't do this. You know, I can't teach people how to get a rat race because I'm back in it. Mhmm. And so the one thing I could do because during the recession, people were like, you know what, Chris?

I'd love to pay you to learn how to do this stuff with our money, but, honestly, I don't know even have the money. Yeah. And I remember thinking in the back of my head, I would never say this verbally. I remember thinking, your situation is way better than mine right now. I'm getting pretty creative trying to figure out how to make it work.

I mean, I even have my my wife at that time, like, she was threatening to take the kids and leave. Like, Cinderella, man, if you ever watched that movie, you know, where she took the kids and because they they didn't have heat, so she was trying to take them to their sisters, and he, like, freaked out, went and got welfare. I was in that same situation. She's like, may I just move in with my sister? You figure this out.

I'm like, I need you now. Like, I can't have you do that. Yeah. So all this mess and storms happening. Right?

And so, yeah, I was like, okay. The one thing I am doing is I'm getting creative. I'm getting resourceful. So when they would tell me they didn't have the money, I would say, well, if I help you find the money, would you pay me? Mhmm.

Well, yeah. Of course. Like, great. Let's look at your situation. And so I started focusing more on how to be creative, like, how to find the money, like, how to, you know, how to, like, even, like, know, start tracking money.

Because most people weren't tracking money, including myself. You know, I just started to do that, and that's what opened my eyes. Like, I'm in the whole 50,000, 60,000 a month. Because when you have money coming in like air, you just get lazy sometimes. Right?

So I started really tracking and do that. So I'm getting them to do the same thing, get creative on how they refinance their debts or whatever it might be. You know, if they have equity in their home, which that was starting to have less and less of back then.

Steve: Right.

Chris: You know, just try to do that kind of stuff. And, and on average, pretty soon, as I started to really perfect that process, they were finding, like, $2,800 a month, about $34 a year, without investing. So doing nothing with investing, nothing with real estate, just finding money. Right?

Steve: And they would use that money to invest with you?

Chris: They they would either use that money to save up, to invest, or even just, you know, pay off debts. You know, if they're just trying to do that debt snowball or whatever.

Steve: They paying you?

Chris: They would just pay me a consulting fee.

Steve: Got it. So you're consulting at this point? Uh-huh.

Chris: Yeah. So I'm just consulting. You know? And same thing I do now. Yeah.

Steve: So it's interesting. You maybe last year, you went through this again then because, there was a period of time.

Chris: Uh-huh.

Steve: Right? The the toilet paper crisis of twenty twenty. Yes. There was, everyone was freaking out.

Chris: Uh-huh.

Steve: And, unfortunately, you know, some business owners laid a bunch of people off. Mhmm. I'm proud to say I didn't let anybody off.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: A lot of people were going through their expenses.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: And they're looking at all of their recurring subscriptions Yeah. Or these expenses. Like, do we really need these expenses? Yeah. A lot of people went through that last year.

So I'm guessing you probably did that again last year in in high volume.

Chris: Like, going through my own expenses?

Steve: No. Helping other people figure figure out how to get through this because everyone's freaking out about the money and their cash flow.

Chris: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was it was an interesting time, especially for a few months. Right? I had a lot of dental dental patient or patients.

Yeah. No. No. Just kidding. Like, I had a lot of dental clients.

Right? And so a lot of them were, like, out of work for two months. You know, while they're trying to figure things out. Some were like, do I go back as a dentist? Do I retire?

You know, do I what do I do? So it was an interesting time, you know, because it was really I mean, I remember the the mantra I gave them at the time was, you know, three things. It was get lean, get liquid, and get out. Mhmm. Right?

It's like it's like, make sure you're are tracking your money. Like, you you need to do that in your business. You need to do that at home. You better make sure you're doing that. Like, get lean.

Like, make sure you're you got it down the bare bones of what's necessary, what's productive. And I was like, get liquid. I'm like, guys, make sure you have cash on hand. We don't know what's coming, but it's good to have cash. Because that's the thing I learned that I didn't do well during the last recession.

If I had if I would've put sunk all that money in equity in my home, you know, with, like, the whole Dave Ramsey method, I would've been way better off. I would have more cash to be able to play with and weather that storm out, keep a level head. Right? So I'm not panicking and freaking out in scarcity. I would've been way better off.

So I'm like, get liquid and then, like, get out. Like, if you got stock market stuff, you might wanna look at getting that money out. I'm not I'm not recommending it because, again, I'm not securities license anymore, not since 2005. But I'm like, hey. If you've got cash you can get from places, you may wanna get that money out, and then we start looking for cash flowing investments because there will be more opportunities.

Steve: Right.

Chris: Right now is gather your you know, gather everything you can.

Steve: So you're able to get yourself out of this million dollar in debt.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: The house guy foreclosed on the primary. Yep. Second one, the the original primary?

Chris: That one that one we just sold off and pretty much broke even. Yeah.

Steve: And then after that, after you you you lost your home, were you at zero, or were you negative still?

Chris: Oh, I was still a little negative. Yeah. Because I still had all those credit card balances that were in collections. I had the Mercedes balance that was past due, right, and

Steve: all that kind of stuff. So Alright. So then you're able to help consult

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: Move your way out of it. Yeah. And then along the way, you learn the skill to become creative. Yeah. What did you do with with what you figured out?

Chris: I I taught it. I mean oh, you mean in my own personal life?

Steve: Your own personal life and then what you did for your, you know, clients eventually.

Chris: Yeah. So my own personal life was like, okay. Let's let's hunker down. Like, you know, obviously, when I moved out of that house, you know, I got a rental that was a quarter of the payment. Mhmm.

So that was liberating a little bit. Yeah. I mean, and I was stubborn. Like, I didn't wanna do that. Like, I wanted to make it work.

I was gonna make it happen. Right?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: And and it wasn't happening. You know? Like, it was just wasn't working out that way. But I'll tell you, like, I remember, you know, 2009 you know, March April 2009 is when I basically, like it got foreclosed on. Right?

And May May, we had to move out. I remember in 2008, I remember I was praying hard, like, what do I do? Like, do I, you know, do I make a career change? Do I get a job? What's gonna happen?

And I just remember getting that distinct impression, like, Chris, hang in there. It's okay. Like, it's gonna work out. Mhmm. And, I was like, alright.

How long is this gonna be? And it took some time. Right? But eventually, things did get there. But it gave me enough of that kind of that fuel of faith

Steve: Gotcha.

Chris: To keep me going even though I was on fumes. I was on a lot of fumes at that time. I mean, I remember even, like, August 2009. Right? So after I'd already moved out, we downsized everything.

We sold off stuff. A lot of the money we had to help us with the move was selling off all of our crap. So then, you know, it was, like, 2 or $3,000 we raised so that we could have enough money to pay rent the next month. You know? And, I was actually on welfare.

You know, we were we were getting welfare from stuff, which, my wife at that time, she was like, hey. You're going in to get it. Like, you need to know what it feels like to be ashamed and go in and get this this food and stuff. So I'm, like, walking in with my suit and everything because they used to wear suits back in those days to try to impress people. Right?

So I'd be walking in a suit. I'm like, I can't believe I'm here. You know? I I can't believe I'm at this place right now. And so Humbling.

It's very humbling. I mean, we had, you know, some friends and family that would help us out last minute. I mean, there's times where, like, we don't know where we're gonna have food. You know? Like, really?

And there's times I wouldn't eat lunch. You know? I would just starve through it because I remember seeing this Ben Franklin quote that said that he would let himself starve before he let his kids starve. I'm like, oh, my kids are gonna starve. So okay.

I'm not making the money. Gotta get out because all the business overhead was taking most of the the sales I was doing. What kind

Steve: of business overhead did you have?

Chris: We had office expense. So we had a shared expense with these partners. So I was paying for, like, the front desk receptionist. You know? We're paying for, you know, just the building and the utilities and everything else.

So if I sold, like, one or two new clients that month, I might have got a paycheck Because it was, like, 3 it was almost 3,000 a month they were taking out my check. I found out later they were actually pocketing a little bit more than they should have been. You know? It wasn't exactly e equitably distributed, but I was sold. I was like, I'm gonna do this.

I'm gonna make it work. You know? And and it was good. It was character developing because there's it's just some things you can never learn Mhmm. In abundance.

Right? Like, there's some things you just learn through trial and experience. And if there's anything I learned was just faith, you know, that and persistence, like, not giving up. You know? Even though there was mornings I woke up and I wanted to, you know.

And I remember there's a August 2009 after we've been in that house for a few months. My wife was, like, you know, screaming at me. She's like, when are we gonna be out of this? Like, this has been two years now. You know, 2007 to 2009, we've been going with this crap.

When is it gonna get better? You keep saying it's gonna get better. When is it actually gonna get better? And I remember I was just pissed.

Steve: And I

Chris: was like I I just pointed. I was like, listen. There's gonna be a day I'm gonna say I told you so. Like, I just know it with like, deep in my gut, I know that things are about to shift and turn around. And you may not believe it, but I do.

And I just walked out, slammed the door, went to the office. And it was at that point, like, I just got this point of submission. I'm like, I don't care if it takes, you know, twenty days or twenty years. I'm gonna keep doing this because I know this has gotta work. I know that principles govern.

That if I'd keep doing the right things, it's gonna work out, and it's gonna be in the right exactly the right timing. And once I got to that place of submission and released, that was amazing how everything got better. Right. In fact, it was actually the end of by the September, like, all of a sudden, like, clients are flooding in. We had just the right relationships come in at the right time.

My cash flow process I developed, like, was starting to help those guys. Mhmm. And they were influencers as well. They were, like, coaches and consultants. Right?

And they had their own following. So they're like, you gotta get you gotta hire these guys. They're awesome. So it took a long time, but then it got to the right people, and it just expanded and exploded. So that by October, just two months later after our argument, I was like, you remember that time when we got in that argument, and I said there's gonna be a day I told you so?

Yeah. Yeah. Why? I won't say it.

Steve: So there's a couple of things there. I think one of them is if you do the right things right Mhmm. Everything else take care of itself. Yeah. Right?

And it takes faith Yeah. To have that, faith in yourself. The other thing is we all think it's hard to be an entrepreneur, and I'm not saying it's not. Yeah. It sucks a lot of the times.

Chris: What not a lot

Steve: of people talk about, it's even harder to be married to an entrepreneur.

Chris: That's right.

Steve: Right? You and I were talking earlier with, with another peer

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: Talking about going his he's having his own challenges. Yeah. Right? It's hard It is. Being married or connected in one way or another.

Yeah. Being in

Chris: a relationship with somebody who's an entrepreneur.

Steve: Yeah. Because we're crazy. Yeah. Right? And we'll we'll we'll we'd rather work seventy hours a week at below minimum wage

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: Than work for somebody else.

Chris: Yep. So

Steve: and our family has to pay that price.

Chris: It wasn't like trying. I did try to get a paper out once because I'm like, if I can do it four to seven in the morning, you know, that's right before I go to work. Yeah. I I'm I'm apparently unemployable. They didn't even call me back.

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Alright. So you've, been referred to as the anti Mhmm. Financial adviser. Right. What does that mean?

Chris: Well, you know what every financial adviser teaches. Right? I mean Yeah. Mutual funds. Yeah.

Mutual funds. It's like, save everything, spend nothing, save it in mutual funds, and and it's like it's like Mexican food. Right? You know, I like Mexican food, but let's let's admit it. Burritos, tacos, fajitas, they all have the same freaking ingredients.

Steve: Right? Be careful. There's a room full of guys next door, but continue.

Chris: Again, I love Mexican food. Right? But they just package it with the same ingredients and and call it different names. Uh-huh. And that's all financial advisers do.

Right? They're just Mexican food. They they just all they do is they sell mutual funds or insurances. Mhmm. That's it.

Like, you know, annuities is really just an insurance combined with mutual funds or not mutual funds. Right? It's all the same crap. And if you think about it, for the last thirty, forty years, like, Financial Adviser really hit the scenes in the seventies. Right?

Like, that's when they started to really come on deck and and get popular. Well, if Americans aren't better off financially, you don't see people financially free saying, like, wow, that four zero one k was so awesome, or I love my financial adviser. Like, I'm financially free right now. You don't hear the same conversation that we have when we get together. Right?

It's it's not the same. And so Nowhere near. Nowhere near. And so if evidence and I like evidence. Right?

I like to know if things work. Well, if the evidence says that it hasn't worked yet, why in the freak are we doing the same thing? Right? That's insanity.

Steve: Right? So there's a couple different things. Like we said earlier, the no load funds

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: They still make the three or 4% a year or whatever. So, truly, if it's making 12%, you're really making eight. If it was making eight, you're really making four. Yep. Right?

No one really talks about that. Yep. But another thing, I actually had another friend on the show, Chris Nagle. Yeah. And he demonstrated that if the fund goes up if we go if the fund goes down 50% Yep.

And it goes up 50%, all in all, that fund was breakeven for two years. Yeah. But your bank account that went from a 100,000 to 50,000

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: And it increased 50% with a 75,000.

Chris: That's right. So,

Steve: yeah, the return over two years on average was zero.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: But the net to your bank account was negative 25%. Average return.

Chris: That's right.

Steve: Yeah. So the creative math behind that Yeah. It's it should be illegal.

Chris: Yeah. But it's it's a it's it's like figures don't lie, but liars figure. Right?

Steve: Right. It's true. Wall Street is too tight in the Washington, I think, for that to ever change.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: But it's crazy how much Wall Street's stealing from all of us. I was pissed when I learned about all this.

Chris: Yeah. But it's true. Like, the average versus actual yield is two very different numbers. Yeah. Right?

Like, I always taught as a financial advisor, 10 or 12. And I actually learned that whole average versus actual in 2004. And it was actually a product trainer that came to try to tell us why index funds were better than the typical variable funds that we were doing. Right? Got it.

And he taught us that. And by the way, every financial advisor got it wrong. He's like, okay. You lose half, you know, you lost 50%. You're down to $50,000.

Right? So what do you need to get back to breaking even? And we're all like, 50%. He's like, wrong. You need a 100% to break break even, and that's before fees come out.

Steve: Right.

Chris: And it was mind blowing. And I remember I cornered the guy out in the parking lot. I said, so we we're just running numbers here. And if we woulda had, like, fixed rate stuff from 1995 you know, this by 2005, I started to really question everything. Right?

Like, by from '95 to 2005, all of us would have more money despite the fact we had the roaring nineties where the market was going crazy. We would all had money more money. He's like, yeah. But you're young. You can weather the storm.

You could take those high risks to get those high returns. Mhmm. I was like, this is bullcrap. I'm just a salesman in a suit. And that's really what a financial adviser is.

Whether their their hearts in it like I was, like, I really wanted to help people, but I realized I was just a pawn for the financial institutions. Mhmm. Right? And and just so you know, like, the everybody says they average, like, 10 or 12, even the market. Right?

Last thirty years, I went and just did this a couple weeks ago. The real rate of return of the S and P p 500 before fees is 8.4%, which, by the way, is high. Mhmm. That's a high number. That's included in the last thirteen years of upmarket straight up.

We've never had a market where it's gone straight up for thirteen years. So, already, things are out of whack. Do you think 8% is realistic before fees? Come on. You're lucky to get six or 7%, right, after fees and everything else.

And and on top of that, here's the other problem I see. Because I get a ton of clients coming. They're asset rich and cash poor. Right? They're like, hey.

I got this money sitting around or I got but it's not creating any cash flow. You know, this guy had $3,000,000. He's like, I got all these mutual funds, and my financial adviser says, good job. Keep going. You know?

Yeah. And his goal wants to be a half million a year of passive income. I said, well, okay. Well, if you do that, if you want half million a year of passive income, you gotta understand the rules of what they're he's coming off of. Because he's gonna say, like, the whole 4% rule, like, the whole fire method, like Mhmm.

That thing's antiquated old. That four percent number is way too aggressive.

Steve: Well, let's explain what fire is.

Chris: Yeah. So the financially independent retire early movement. Right? Yeah. It's funny because I was actually trying to get on their podcast.

I joined their Facebook group. And I thought there are guys just like me, financially independent, retired early. No. They were guys all in mutual funds, and they were believing and the most were millennials, and they believed that they were financially independent. Right?

It's like, oh, I can live on 4%. I could be cheap, and I'm there. I'm fire. Right. You know?

The thing is, like, 4%, even twenty years ago, we were questioning whether that was too aggressive because people are living longer, and the returns on retirement type of income, like with bonds and stuff, is lower. We're saying maybe two or 3%. Yeah. So if you even save up, like in this guy's case, $3,000,000 in all these mutual funds. Right?

Well, if he lives, like, even on 3%, play devil's advocate against my point. Right? 3%, that's $90 a year that he's living on off 3,000,000. If he only had a million bucks, that's $30 a year before taxes.

Steve: I mean That's not the half million he was looking for.

Chris: No. Not even close. And I'm like, dude, if you have 3,000,000, if we can even get you a 10% rate of return, that's $300 a year right now

Steve: Right.

Chris: Which for him would actually make him financially independent. Not free, not where he wanted to be with his income number, but it would replace his income right now. Mhmm. Like, that's way different than the guy telling him, yeah. Keep going, and, hopefully, you'll get up to that $15,000,000 mark so then you can live off half 1,000,000 a year.

But you have to triple his money in the next ten years, hopefully. That's that BS is just not cool. Like, that's the stuff that I'm fighting against right now.

Steve: So how's that fight going?

Chris: It's a long fight. I'll tell you. I mean

Steve: You're fighting that fight alone. I mean, there's not a lot of people talking about this.

Chris: No. There's not. I mean, the thing is that we are. Right? And we get it.

But most of us I mean, when you're already financially independent, like, I was able to get financially independent again by the end of 2016, the second time. Right? Yeah. But I had to get to that point of, alright. Do I keep going?

You know? Do I just kind of enjoy my life, or do I keep building this? You know? And and for a year or so, I kinda took off. I was working five hours a week.

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: But I remember 2018, I'm like, it's gonna grow whether I want it to or not. Do I just tell people no, or do I become a teacher and try to lead this kind of movement? You know? I know I'm not the only one, but I wanna be one of the leaders.

Steve: There's not

Chris: a lot of people talking about it. No. I mean and and some of them, like, Kiyosaki, won't be around forever. Right?

Steve: Right.

Chris: You know, he's he's not gonna live forever, so there's gotta be somebody to help usher that movement through. And, and that's what I'm trying to do because I came from that world. I was that financial adviser. I know it doesn't work. I I've proven it by the numbers.

It doesn't work. We gotta do something different, and that's why we need real estate, and and we need passive

Steve: income. So one thing we were talking about earlier, beginning of the show, was that, how important it is to get passive income. You know? You and I were we have a lot of mutual friends. Mhmm.

We're in collective genius together. And these guys are doing really well actively. As a matter of fact Yeah. The last eighteen months is the best eighteen months for most of our careers Yeah. Which is crazy because, again, toilet paper crisis of twenty twenty.

Chris: You saved a few squares. It's good.

Steve: I did save a few squares. So talk to me about the importance of passive income and why it's so important. I mean, we're we're doing really well with active income. What's why is passive income important?

Chris: There's a lot of levels to that. Right? The here's the number one reason. You wanna get to the place where you work because you want to, not because you have to. Because I remember even last year, the big crisis of twenty twenty.

Right? A lot of wholesalers are like, crap. What if they shut it down on my state? What if I'm a nonessential business?

Steve: Yeah. What are

Chris: you gonna do?

Steve: Pennsylvania, Virginia. Yeah. Those guys are freaking out.

Chris: Oh, yeah. There was a guy ton of guys in our mastermind group freaking out, and rightfully so. Because if they hadn't prepared, if they hadn't got built a portfolio of passive income outside of it, they should be screwed. You know, they should be freaking out. Right?

It's it's just not a good place to be. And I've learned that too is that you never can rely 100% on active income even if you're the entrepreneur. Right? And I even see this in, like, network marketing. Like, network marketing, you're probably the hardest people to get to for this because they believe that their company will always pay them.

They earn their residual income. And I separate this, by the way. I say residual income's like business type of passive income Mhmm. Where passive income's more like real estate investment stuff. Yeah.

Right? Money working for you versus, you know, business systems. Well, they're like, I got the residual income to keep coming in. I'm like, yeah. But what if that company shuts down?

Like, you're not a real business owner here.

Steve: You know? It's like a pension.

Chris: Yeah. It's like a pension. Right? They're like, oh, it never will. Like, you know how many of these companies have shut down or even sold to a competitor or something else?

I had a father-in-law. Same thing happened to him. He actually got booted out of a big, network marketing company he he had made millions in. Wow. And they booted him out, just said, you know what?

We don't wanna deal with your stuff. You're gone. And he was unemployed in Greenland. Right? Yeah.

Quote Princess Bride. Oh. But, I mean, he was he was he had to go find another company and build it all back up again while he was in his sixties.

Steve: Yeah. So those residuals are not necessarily reliable?

Chris: No. No. And that's why I like to to really foster the mindset that you have multiple streams of residual or passive income. Right? You gotta have different streams of income coming from different places.

And and I'll tell you, like, that's the one difference between me now, Chris Miles of today versus Chris Miles of 2007 Mhmm. Who was, you know you know, chest thumping and thought he was awesome because he's this 29 year old, you know, retired. The word out. Yeah. I figured it out.

You know? And but I hadn't. Right? It was it was it was all about that cash flow. Cash flow is what creates freedom.

Steve: Right? So what are you doing to help people find that passive income?

Chris: Finding deals. Right? Everybody has their own unique way of doing it. I love real estate. I think that's one of the best places to go.

Now if you're an active investor, I mean, you've you probably have access to some of the best deals. You don't even need me, really. I mean, I mean, you don't really don't need that because you've got some of these best deals that you could say, you know what? Maybe 10% of my deals I'm wholesaling, I hold on to. Like, maybe I cherry pick a few of these and keep it in my portfolio.

And that's that's not a bad thing. Like, that could be amazing. You know? There's syndications. There's different funds.

There's there's so many deals. And I brought this up in our mastermind a few months back. You know, when I did my presentation, I said, like I didn't ask who is financially independent because I already knew that 80% of the room wasn't. Right? Just from, you know, from our context.

You know? But I said, like, guys, like, you understand that if you're looking for passive deals, I'm like, who in here actually has deals right now that you can you know, either turnkey operators, syndicators, fundraisers, whatever? And And there were several hands that went up the room. I'm like, here it is. It's right here in your own backyard, in your own group.

Mhmm. Like, ask. You gotta see it versus just being so hyper focused on that business that you forget about everything else.

Steve: Yeah. It's actually kinda cool. Like, I think Casey Ryan, right, in our group Yeah. Has bought, like, a 100 deals from Brian and Alex Moses in our group. Yeah.

So, I mean, maybe he's the one that took your advice to heart. I don't know. But it's kinda cool to witness. Yeah. So we were talking this morning.

Right? I mean, you've got people that are you're helping them place their money.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: What is it what is it exactly your role in, for someone that's got money

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: Right, and they're trying to get that passive income, what is your role in helping them deploy that capital?

Chris: So I'm purely just a strategist and a connector. Mhmm. Right? So I don't offer any deals myself. I don't raise money.

You know? Therefore, I don't need a securities license for that. Right? Right. And I'm not telling people you should do this.

But I'm like, okay. Based on your situation, let's find the cash. Let's see what we can do to get creative We pull the equity out. You know? Do we start liquidating stock accounts?

Are we, like, you know, finding ways to get a HELOC or whatever? Like, how do we get the money out so we can go and deploy it? Mhmm. And then I just connect with the people that do that. You know?

So if they want more rentals, great. Here's some people I I know and trust and have vetted. Talk to these guys. These guys are great. Or here's some syndications I think would be awesome for you.

You know?

Steve: And Right.

Chris: Just always trying to find those best deals that help them get to their goal as quickly and safely as we can.

Steve: So in a way, your role is to help someone initially Mhmm. Figure out where money is leaking personally in their life. Yep. And once you've helped them figure that out, they've got extra cash flow or less expenses.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And then from those savings, you're helping them to deploy that to create passive income.

Chris: Yeah. Or even just the cash they got sitting around in savings. Right? Like, that's most people coming to me usually have cash sitting around now. Mhmm.

They're like, okay. How do I get my money working for me so I have to keep working so hard for my money? And so you get that money. Let's deploy it. Let's get it moving into there.

Let's see if we can make it work. You know? And and sometimes we'll even, like, run it through things like, you know, you know, like life insurance or something like that. Like, run it through and back out so we can double dip and double arbitrage our money and

Steve: do all this stuff. Mean? I mean, you you just said a lot of really big words there. So Yeah. Arbitrage.

So what does it mean? Well, you should probably initially explain what arbitrage is because I I know we do it. That's what we do in wholesale. Yeah. By definition, we're arbitraging.

Yeah. But not everyone knows what arbitrage means. Yeah. So let's let's elaborate what arbitrage means.

Chris: Yeah. The easiest example of arbitrage is look at the bank. Right? They they borrow your money. They go into debt to you when you put money in savings, and then they turn around.

They loan that money back out to make money. Mhmm. The cool thing is if a bank with them, they can loan out up to 10 times their money legally. The big five, they can do up to 40 times.

Steve: Is it 40?

Chris: That's what got them in trouble in the during the last recession.

Steve: To fail.

Chris: Yeah. Exactly. You know, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac was, like, a 100 times. You know? So Wow.

That's why they need the bailout. They're a little bit too upside down. Right? But, but, yeah, at least you know, usually at least 10 times. Mhmm.

And, and so they use that money to go in and arbitrage it. Right? They they create a higher return than what they're paying on it, which, like you said, in wholesaling, it's kinda what you're doing as well. I mean, you're doing it, like, with an infinite almost an infinite rate of return in some ways.

Steve: You know? So, basically, example, you borrow at two and you percent and you lend it 4%, and you're just collecting the difference between the two.

Chris: Right. But the difference, though, is that it's not just 2%, is it? It's 22%

Steve: times 10.

Chris: Because if you pay 2% and you earn 4% Mhmm. Yeah. That's not that's not 2%. That's a 100% return because you made double on that money. Right?

Steve: Exactly. Exactly. So then the whole life insurance

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: Can you elaborate on that? Because I don't think everyone knows a whole life insurances.

Chris: Yeah. So whole life insurance you know, everybody knows term insurance. That's death insurance. Right? Mhmm.

Whole life actually has a component where you can build up savings. And there's other things like universal life in various forms. Right? But there's only one type of insurance that you can use where you can get that kind of arbitrage, where you can double dip, where you can have money over the insurance earning interest, and you can get a line of credit against it, whether from the insurance company or from a bank, get a line line of credit against it to use that money to invest in your deals. Right?

So, like, for example, you know, like, say somebody wants to buy a turnkey property. It's they're just gonna put the 20% down. Right? They so they put down $40,000. Well, you can have that money come out of savings, but when you move the money out of savings account, right, the 40,000 is now gone.

It's not earning interest in savings account.

Steve: It's not earning the 1% anymore. Yeah.

Chris: It's not earning the point nothing percent, right, that you get taxed on. Yeah. You know? But it is out there working for you, which is good. But, but, again, it's gone.

And then you take the cash flow and you try to rebuild it back up again so they can do the next deal. Same strategy you can do with life insurance. Right? You can put money in. Now there's cost of insurance, things like that.

But if you do it right, where I call it max ROI, infinite banking, right, where you get the lowest cost possible so then your money is growing and and not not only is it growing tax free, right, which is kinda cool. Mhmm. It's earning more than point nothing percent. It's earning at least four or 5% just by itself. Not sexy.

By the way, you can never retire off of this thing. You need real estate. You need these other investments. Right? But it's earning four or 5% at least tax free.

It's also, in most states, protected from losses creditors, 100%. Right. So even if you got millions of dollars in there and you get sued and they win, they can't touch that money. They can touch your savings account. They can tap into that all they want.

Steve: Yeah. But it's another form of asset protection.

Chris: It's another form of asset protection. Right? Yep. But the cool thing is, you know, again, if you're leveraging that money and you're lending that sucker out, I mean, now you get this, you know, nice aspect where you're in debt to everything. You can't get sued for equity you don't have.

Right?

Steve: Right.

Chris: So, basically, we're just borrowing from it from the money that's already in there, just like if you got a collateralized line of credit against the savings account. Yeah. Right? But, again, we don't wanna earn point nothing percent. We wanna earn more than that.

So, like, for example, I have a I have a policy right now where they pay 5.75%. Right? That's the gross return they pay me. Now I have a bank line of credit against that same cash that I can get at 3.25%.

Steve: Mhmm.

Chris: So I've got this huge spread already. So bank line

Steve: of credit secured by the

Chris: whole life policy. Secured by a whole life policy.

Steve: Yep. Did not know about that option. Alright.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Usually, you do it with an insurance company. Usually, it's, like, 5%, and that's cool. But with the way the rates dropped, I've been telling my clients instead, like, hey.

Let's switch over to the bank here because the banks are gonna be at prime rate minus a half, but they bought them at 3.25. Like, if I borrow 3.25, it's earning 5.75. I'm making money there, and I'm making money on whatever I invest in too. So that turnkey property, I'm getting my cash flow. I'm using that to pay back towards a line of credit that I can just turn around and use again.

Right? And, again, it's not like a bank, you know well, it is a bank. If you use the bank, it is a bank line of credit. It's not like the typical bank line of credit where in the last recession, the danger was there is that they could cut it anytime they want to. Mhmm.

They're like, we're done. We can't do it. Here, because they know the cash is there. It's it's secured, and it's it's guaranteed to never lose money. They're they're willing to give you, like, a 100% loan against it.

Yeah. You know? And so you get this double dip effect. Usually, it adds at least another three to 5% return on top of the return you get for that property.

Steve: Well, what I like about this, and I never thought about this until this conversation right now Yeah. Is that, a, no one can touch your insurance money. Yeah. Right? So that's asset protection.

But, b, because you're lending it, like, to yourself, this property over here that you own is also indebted.

Chris: Yeah. So 100%.

Steve: They can't seize that either. Yeah. So you're really well protected.

Chris: Yeah. Wow. Which any any person that builds wealth, I mean, you wanna basically look like the average middle middle American. Right? You would be like, yeah.

I own my cars, and I have a house.

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: You know? But that house is also leveraged too. So good luck getting that equity.

Steve: Right.

Chris: And so they're like, crap. Where do I get the money? You know? And that's that's where you wanna be. You wanna have that peace of mind knowing that, yeah, I've got wealth, but they can't tap into it.

Steve: Yeah. The wealth I have is the wealth that you can't access.

Chris: Exactly. Yeah. Yep. And don't and don't think for a minute that the politicians aren't doing the same exact freaking thing.

Steve: Well, yeah. I guess that's a quick that's great, great point. For someone that's new to this Mhmm. Let's name some people that are doing this to further what's the word I'm looking for? Demonstrate that this is not something we're just making up.

Yeah. Right? Who are some famous people that everyone's heard of that this is?

Chris: Besides me and Chris Nagle, because we're awesome. Like, I mean, we're pretty amazing that oh, mean, like, famous people would be like Walt Disney. Right. You know, like, everybody, you know, has heard well, maybe not everybody's heard the story of Disney World. Right?

He built Disneyland first, and that was, like, his his kinda launch. And then he was secretly trying to buy land in Orlando. Right? And it's just all swamped back then. Well, he he wanted to get bank money, but the banks were like, no.

Come on. You know? I I know I know you're a big visionary, but this is a little bit too big for us.

Steve: Stop dreaming.

Chris: Yeah. Stop dreaming. And so eventually, he put the terms on. I said, listen. If you come up with your own cash, okay, maybe we'll lend you the rest.

Right? You gotta put some skin in the game. So where did he get it? He borrowed from his life insurance. He went to his life insurance company, borrowed that money, used that as the collateral, and then the bank said, great.

We'll give you the rest.

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: Right? So another example there, Pampered Chef was actually started using life insurance. They borrowed the money from their licensure's policy. They create Pampered Chef. So maybe you don't know them, but your wife probably does.

You know? You know, also, JCPenney during the the last, you know, during the great depression. Right? JCPenney actually paid their payroll using life insurance policies. Walmart actually bought policies on their employees.

Same thing that, like, GE did. Like, a lot of pensions were paid because they buy policies, and then the way they would re replenish the pension is they would once the person died, that death benefit would pay back the pension fund, and they could keep paying pensions. Oh. Walmart just did it. They bank on it.

They're like, hey. Even this person's, like, an hourly employee, I'm gonna get a little policy on them. But family members, when they found out, said, wait a minute. We didn't have insurance on our our family member, but you did. Mhmm.

And they didn't even work for you at the time they died. Right. But you just banked on their death. That's not fair. You know?

So then Walmart had to deal with PR issues. Yeah. So yeah. All kinds of people. Even banks, even during the last recession, I remember, Wells Fargo had 22% of their money tied up in cash value life insurance that they were storing there.

Steve: Really? Yeah. And I think I'm trying to remember. I I think it's Hershey's also. I think Hershey's has has that as well Yeah.

To to, and, you know, there's a brand name where everyone knows about them. So changing gears here, you know, we talk about predictive index on the show every once in

Chris: a while.

Steve: Yeah. And, I say I'm a bit of an odd duck. Mhmm. I'm an individualist. Yeah.

We ran a PI. I act actually asked Austin McCurdy. Mhmm.

Chris: Can you

Steve: just send me a list of all the other individualists in CG? And your name was, was the first one I saw. Yeah. So can you describe for someone what it is like to be an individualist? Because I think we're we're oddballs.

Chris: Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Even in our group. Right?

Because everybody's like the maverick captains. Like, we're gonna take over the world.

Steve: Right? 50% Mavericks in there.

Chris: Yeah. It it really is. It's it's just obscenely crazy how many, you know, these just go get them with type entrepreneurs.

Steve: Right.

Chris: And then, like, with us and and and I've always been I I'm actually a geek on tests like this. Right? Because, I was a sociology major in college with a with a triple minor in psychology, ballroom dancing, and Japanese. Right? And, and so I was all about it.

But, you know, I remember, like, taking the Myers Briggs. And same thing with the Myers Briggs. I would fall in, like, three different types. Right? Or even, like, the color code, you know, the four colors.

Right? Whenever whenever it's a quadrant test, I would, like, hit three of them. And And they're like, oh, it's almost like a three way tie. I'm like, this is the story of my life. And then, of course, we get this PI test, and I'm an individualist.

Right? And when it came when they started describing what it was, I'm like, yeah. That's pretty accurate. That's me. You know?

And and even for an individualist, I'm kinda unique in some ways. Right? Because, I was almost a captain, but I was slightly more introverted than my whatever the sea was. I can't remember the sea now. But, they

Steve: were flip flops. Steady versus,

Chris: Oh, yeah. Steady versus, change or whatever it is. Right? Yeah. So that stability.

I had a little bit there, but that introversion or whatever was it flip flopped if it flip flopped, it would have been a captain. But, you know, I was just a little bit off on that one because, you know, I actually like to watch Netflix at night instead of just, you know, hanging out with people.

Steve: You know, what's interesting is that, according I there's a book. What was it? I'm surrounded by idiots. Right? And the book is is basically a book about the disc profiles, you know, or if you look at the colors.

Right? And they basically said, like, the rarest combination is someone who's a high d and a high s, which is pretty much what an individual is is. Mhmm. And so what's fascinating for me is that, supposedly, it's the rarest group of people. Yeah.

Yet if you look at my organization, we got four or five of them. Yeah. Yeah. And, so when Phil Green was in here yesterday, he's like, you know, how weird is it, right, Mhmm. To have an organization full of individuals?

But then probably what's happening is that, you know, we attract who we are.

Chris: Yeah. So yeah. I only have a few people in my company, like, a few core people. Everybody else is, like, contractors. And funny enough, we got a guy that's an individual.

It's, like, 50% of us are individualists, basically. Right? Yeah. It's it's weird. We put all

Steve: the odd people in the same room. Yeah. So what is your passion? What is your why? What keeps you going?

Chris: You know, kinda like I said earlier, like, you know, nine years ago, I launched Money Ripples. Right? Yeah. I remember I was out for a run. I was working for the other company before, but I was getting ready to split off.

I was I just had that feeling like that was the next step. And I remember I was out for a run, and while I was out there, I'm like, well, what am I gonna call my company? I was trying to come up with, like, creative names like cash flow something. Maybe a ninja. No.

No. I can't do that. You know? But, you know, I was kinda I was trying all these little cash flow names, and then I thought about my vision. Right?

And I thought about, like, you know, I was telling you this morning, you know, about that that chiropractor, you know, that we freed up $6,000 a month for them. You know? And the first month, you know, they didn't go and just save it or invest it. He bought a four wheeler, which allowed him to take off Saturdays and and spend time with his family. And his wife is balling in tears because how it changed their life, and it's creating this new legacy for his children.

I thought about that ripple effect. Right? Yeah. And what it created for them. And I thought about that reflect not just through the family and generations beyond him, but the community and the country and ultimately across the world.

Steve: Yep.

Chris: And that's when that name money ripples popped in my head. And that's really what my passion is, is creating that ripple effect. You know? Like, I'm a leader and a teacher. I love teaching people to give them hope.

You know? If there's anything from my story, it's, hey. You can get through crap. Right?

Steve: Yes. Absolutely.

Chris: There's hope through perseverance. You know? There's there's hope that there's something better, something better than the status quo, because the status quo drives me nuts. The status quo is, like, the very thing you should avoid. The status quo is where broke people live.

That's where people that have unsuccessful marriages. That's where people are unhealthy. That's the status quo right now. Right? Yeah.

We don't wanna be that. We don't wanna live ordinary lives. We wanna live extraordinary lives. And so my passion is really just spreading that message, helping people do that. That's why I can't quit, you know, because I gotta keep it going.

Steve: I love that. I love that passion. There's actually a quote that I'm trying to get Elias. He's our graphics guy to put out there.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: And it's that because we were talking about status quo, Scott Uitz, and myself.

Chris: Uh-huh.

Steve: And, I basically said to him something along the lines of either you challenge just you either you challenge the status quo or you live the status quo life, and that's not a good life. No. Yeah. Another thing is you just mentioned the the the person that got, what did they purchase? A four wheeler.

Four wheeler. Yeah. So we were talking this morning also about there's an element of, like, car shaming. Right? Uh-huh.

That people feel like you shouldn't buy a car until you've hit a certain milestone financially. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

Chris: I think anybody who owns a Tesla sucks. Agree. I'm just kidding. No. No.

I see. I mean, I I honestly don't care that much because I know every every one of us have our own priorities. Right? We have their own things that are good. I do think that there has to be an element of stewardship.

That's a big thing I try to teach a lot is Yeah. Is that there's there's scarcity if you're a spender, right, where you always try to make money, but you didn't blow it. It's easy come, easy go. Yeah. And there's scarcity even as a saver.

If you're hoarding money, right, like typical Dave Ramsey fan. You know? Those people will never be financially free. Yeah. But in the middle is a steward.

Right? It's kinda like the parable of the talents in the bible. Right? Like, those that know the bible story is, like, there's three servants who are given money, different sums of money, and they're charged to go out and make more with it. And there's two of them that did and went and doubled, and they said, awesome.

You're hired. Basically, you're coming to my kingdom. You've been a good servant. Right? But there's the one person that said, I was given the one someone money.

He's he was scared of losing it. He buried it because he was a Dave Ramsey fan. Right? You could tell I love Dave Ramsey so much. He buries the money, and then he digs it back up and gives it back to the master.

Said, hey. Look. I I didn't lose your money. Here it is. Yeah.

He's like, you knew what I required of you. Get the heck out. You know? You're gone. You know?

In fact, I'm gonna give your money and give it to the guy that made double over here. Yeah. Right? And that's what a steward does. A steward wants to amplify and beautify and make things better and basically bless more lives.

Right? And so when you when you're looking at this, you know, when you're looking at money and everything, when it comes to cars, whatever, it's like, great. Is is that allowing you to become a better steward? You know? Now I'll tell you from my own personal experience, like, just buying a car to try to attract people does not attract the right people.

No. Like, you get you get I call them rim liquors. Right? Like, I remember there's one time I bought that Mercedes, you know, and I bought it all for show. Like, in the twenties, I was just doing everything for show.

That's why I bought the house. I wanted to wow people, wow with my Mercedes. I remember there's a 19 year old kid that was, like, out the parking lot after I came back, you know, from, you know, eating chicken wings, you know. And and, he's right out there. He's like, this is my dream car.

Steve: Yeah. I'm

Chris: like, cool, man. He's like, yeah. That was the only person that ever said anything about the car. Everybody else I never got a single client from that stupid car. Right?

So for me, that doesn't make sense. Now you should do you shouldn't drive a jalopy. Right? You shouldn't be driving a beater. Right?

But, you know, if you wanna get a car, great. But make sure that your cash will support it. Make sure that you get more than enough money to to be able to make the payment. Don't don't do like what I did where I did get that Mercedes, and then I wasn't managing my cash flow well, and then I lost it. You know?

That's humiliating, and that that does something to you psychologically that it's hard to repair from that. You know? It it I would tell you that my recovery financially took longer just because I was dealing with all the mind games.

Steve: Well, we were talking about this yesterday, actually, that, I've I've still got the scars, right, from 2007 to through 02/2010. Yeah. So I I'm totally with you there. And then the the part about getting a car to impress anybody, I remember, I when I quit Intel

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: I told my boss, like because I wanna go buy an s class Mercedes. Yeah. Terrible reason to quit it now.

Chris: I was

Steve: like, he's like, why do you wanna quit? Why do you wanna go do this? Like, because do doing what I'm doing now, this I'm not gonna get this car.

Chris: Uh-huh.

Steve: And then also while I was at Intel Mhmm. On my bucket list was an Audi s four. Right? I wanted to get an Audi s four. Yeah.

And so in real estate, I was able to buy one. Uh-huh. There was no happiness, like Yeah. That was that we achieved, in having that car that we wanted to buy. Yeah.

So, a, you're not impressing anybody.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: And, this is what Keith Cunningham says. We often mistake pleasure for happiness. Yes. There's pleasure when you buy the car. Mhmm.

There's not to say that you don't feel good for a little bit. Yeah. It's very short lived.

Chris: Yeah. Unless unless it has accelerated torque like you've got. Like, that's pretty fun. You know? But it's true.

Like, I remember when I bought the Mercedes, you know, it was, like, the alabaster white e 500. Right? I was like, yes. I got it. That was on my vision board.

But after two weeks, it was just a car.

Steve: Just a car.

Chris: It was just metal. Yeah. You know? I'm just driving this metal thing down the road. And, and it was it was kind of an epiphany for me.

It was like, well, do I really care? You know? And now granted, I I I drove crap cars, like, when I had to get rid of it. I I had to borrow a car from my friend, you know, that was, like, worth $3,000. The headlights were very glazed over, you know, from wear and things like that.

And I wasn't proud of it. You know? It it hit my ego a lot. Yeah. But the cool thing is, eventually, I had to let go of the ego.

And when I did, that's when everything came back in my life. When I submitted. Right? When I let go of the ego, it's almost like it was it opened up space for me to have more. Yeah.

Yeah. But now when I have more, it's like, I don't give a crap. Like, I don't care what you think about my car. You know? I got a nice cool Nissan Maxima.

Like, I like it. Right? Well It's black.

Steve: And the reason why I bring that up is because I, I I believe it feels like there's a certain amount of elitism. Mhmm. Right? Where they feel like you can judge somebody based on the car they drive because maybe they shouldn't buy it yet. Right.

And for me, it's just mind your own business. Yeah. Right? Like, no one's judging you for taking taking these vacations. No one's judging you for working or maybe some people are judging, but not a lot of people are judging you for only working twenty hours a week.

Chris: Right. Right? Exactly.

Steve: Why are you judging other people for wanting to have a nice car? That's Exactly. Kinda what goes through my mind.

Chris: Yeah. You shouldn't care, and neither should they. You you you don't have enough time in the day. There's so many more things you'd be worrying about right now that make your life amazing than the car. Exactly.

Steve: So what is your biggest struggle right now?

Chris: My biggest struggle, although it's getting exciting now, is replicating me. Right? Stepping into that visionary role, you know, and and stepping more there. You know? Because, I mean, like, being an individualist, they gave me the choice.

They're you know, the consulting company I use, they're like, you can either be a visionary or an integrator. You can be either. You can run your own show. You you basically done it already. Like, I'm the number one b s er when it comes to hiring contractors and never hire an employee.

Right? I finally hired my first employee that's now my integrator and my CMO, and she's incredible. And, and just having people replace me, like, ego used to prevent me from that and hyper control. I wanna control it. I wanna get the best bang for my buck because I'm all about efficiency.

Right? But after doing it, I'm like, this is amazing. This this is the way life should be. Especially, we really wanna go into this whole another level, another game. You can't see it if you're just stuck inside everything.

And so to be able to step out as a visionary to be able to have this clear vision, it's just like hiking a trail and be able to see more of the valley. You're like, oh my gosh. This is incredible.

Steve: I think, it was Mark Dela Torto said this, at at one of our events was that as you go to each camp, I think, at at Mount Everest Yeah.

Chris: You have a different view. Different base camp.

Steve: Different base camp, and you had a different view.

Chris: Mhmm. That's kinda

Steve: how it feels as you're growing, and and hiring more people to, to to help you implement your vision and your dream.

Chris: Absolutely.

Steve: What is your superpower?

Chris: Superpower is teaching. Teaching, patience is a big one, even though I get impatient all the time.

Steve: Yeah.

Chris: You know? But, but definitely, like, I have that steady, you know, steadiness. Like, I don't give up. I'm just relentless, I guess you could say, in a lot of ways.

Steve: You know, it's interesting because Gary Harper, he shared that, in his opinion or what he's seen is that individuals make the best teachers.

Chris: That's interesting, isn't it?

Steve: Yeah. Is there a book you've gifted more than any other?

Chris: That book would probably have been there's a couple of them. I'm trying to remember which one I've gifted more. I I know, Think You Grow Rich has been one that I've done a lot of. But, also, there's a a book and a movie. Actually, I gave out a movie called The Ultimate Gift.

So it was movie came out around 2006, and they made it into a book. I'll honestly tell you, the movie is better than the book. There's James Garner in it, you know, and, you know, it's pretty pretty decent movie. But that movie changed me. It really helped me to see about legacy and and just that bigger, you know, bigger view of trying to leave something behind more than just money.

And, it impacted me a lot. And I I gave that gift out, like, one Christmas. I was just sending it to everybody.

Steve: You know? That's awesome. I want you to think about something I wanna leave the listeners with while I make just a couple announcements. Guys, if you got value today from listening to Chris, please like, subscribe, share, comment. It helps us reach more people.

And then if you guys are interested in growing your business, send me a DM, steve dot trang. We'll see if it makes sense for us to work together. What are some last thoughts you wanna leave the listeners with?

Chris: You know what? My shirt says it all. Right? I mean, cash flow equals freedom. If there's anything that you should be focused on, it's not just the cash flow in your business, not just the money you're earning, like the active income.

Look for passive income. You know, look for ways to free up cash, and and then look to ways to get that money deployed. Working for you, so you don't have to keep working so hard for it. Because there will be a point there will definitely be a point where you'll say, I'm tired of this crap. Like, why am I in the rat race?

Mhmm. You could be a multimillionaire and still be in the rat race, just so you know. And and we know those we've we've met those people. We don't wanna be there. You really wanna create that freedom now.

And you do that, you'll be one of the most intelligent people out there if you can figure that out and make it work. And I'll tell you, it's easier than you might think it is. You know, when you have that intention and you know exactly what you're going for, it's amazing how the vision pulls you faster to that goal. Like, you get there hyper hyper fast, if that's even a word. Hyper speed.

Steve: Hyper speed. Ludicrous.

Chris: Ludicrous speed.

Steve: If someone wanted to get a hold of you, how would they reach you?

Chris: Yeah. Two ways they can do it. One, they can go to our website, moneyripples.com. Right? The other way is actually follow my podcast, the Chris Miles money show, which we have on all the

Steve: Thank you very much, Chris.

Chris: Thank you. Absolute pleasure. Same here.

Steve: Thank you guys for watching.

Chris: Thanks a lot.