How He Generates Over A Million Dollars In Real Estate Leads A Month

Steve Trang: What do you love most about SEO?

Keith Sant: I love that anyone could care. I love that it's it is something that you could get in without a lot of money. I root for the underdog. I love helping people out, especially the guys that don't have crap load of money every month. The cool thing about SEO is you don't have to have the best website in the world.

You just gotta be a little better than the guy in front of you.

Steve: Google, at the

Keith: end of the day, it's just an algorithm. It's a robot, and its whole job is to crawl pages and and put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible.

Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors. Today, we have Keith Sant with SEO meets real estate investors. Keith flew in from Harlingen, Texas.

Keith: Harlingen. Harlingen, Texas to

Steve: talk about how he generates over a million dollars in real estate leads per month. Guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you take consistent action, you'll become one. And, guys, if you get value out of this show, please hit that subscribe button.

That way we can all grow together.

Keith: Ready? Absolutely.

Steve: Alright. So we got a slightly different path here. So I wanna go back to when you started real estate. So what was your life like right before you got into real estate?

Keith: Oh, man. I I, like, just graduated from college. I I was I got I dropped out of school actually when I was, like, 16. I got emancipated, got my GED. I went back to college when I was, like, 23.

Or I graduated, I guess, when I was, like, 23, 24 or something. And, I just got out, and, I just wanted to be a better entrepreneur. I didn't really but I got out, and I was actually studying, for my LSATs because I wanted to be a better negotiator. Better that was one thing I sucked at. Like, I was really good at, you know, manufacturing things, making things, like, a lot of different things, but, like, sales wasn't one of them.

Mhmm. Like, I could I would just make the best thing and then sell it for cheaper than everyone else. Right. I didn't know how to take something that was, like, subpar and sell it at a premium. And so I figured, you know, maybe, law school would help me do that.

Steve: This is Take your LSAT.

Keith: I was in the process of it.

Steve: Work on your negotiation skills.

Keith: That was the plan.

Steve: Alright. Yeah. Okay. Did did you take the LSAT?

Keith: No. No. I one of the guys actually that I went to school with at the University of Washington, he was in real estate Mhmm. Flipping houses and and wholesaling some stuff. And, I kinda bumped into him at a at a restaurant one day, and, I was always interested in that.

I'd heard him talk, you know, in, like, a couple like, a a project at school talking about how it's flipping houses. And I don't wanna be that guy, like, oh, tell me you know, teach me, but I was always interested. And then bumped into him at the, at some restaurant, and he told Get a get a hold of me tomorrow. And so I got a hold of him the next day. We met up, and then, I just started learning everything I could from him and Mhmm.

Taught me about wholesaling and real estate. And, yeah, I was just, like, on it from that from that day.

Steve: So you graduated college already? Yeah. And you're working on taking LSAT.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: And then you met this guy at the restaurant, and he's, like, real You're already aware of him, but now you're, like, jumping into it. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. What was that journey like?

Keith: Man. So, like, we were I I was making, like, nothing. I was basically working for him for free for, like, 5% of any deal that we got. And and I was trying to do

Steve: You were on his team?

Keith: Basically. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Doing a bunch of, like, marketing, anything I could.

You know, I'm learning. I didn't I graduated with a marketing degree, but, like, they didn't really teach me how to market. Right? Like, they teach you about marketing. They teach you about, like, you know, but they don't actually show you how to run Facebook ads or how to have a, you know, a a successful direct mail, campaign or I think there was maybe, like, two pages in, like, the whole marketing textbook about SEO.

SEO. Like, they just don't talk about it. It was really weird. But What

Steve: do they talk about?

Keith: I I don't know. Like, cost per, you know, view from, like, television and radio and, you know, you learn a lot of theory, but nothing, like, actual practical. Like, I graduated with, you know, four year degree, but I wasn't, like, employable. Like, I mean, I was employable, but what? Like, $17 an hour or something.

Nothing to, like, actually, like, fund a lifestyle that, you know Yeah.

Steve: I always wonder what they talk about, right, in marketing school. Because, like, I'm thinking, is this, like, Fifth Avenue advertising, or is it, like, they teach you, like, how to, like, service Coca Cola with, like, a Super Bowl budget? Right?

Keith: I mean, basically, they just they teach you how to be an employee. Mhmm. Right? And, like, they didn't there was no degree on how to be an entrepreneur.

Steve: Yeah. Because, like, I learned I studied direct response marketing. I wanna say back around, like, 2010, whatever.

Keith: Mhmm. That's

Steve: when I kinda got into that world. I was like, this is very different than what we all think marketing is. But for us small business people, way more applicable to our business than this marketing degree stuff.

Keith: 100%. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay.

Steve: So you're working with this guy, and you're doing his everything. Not just marketing. You're doing his everything for 5%. Yep. Okay.

How did that go?

Keith: Not really well. Like, I kinda quickly, I realized that he wasn't someone I really wanna do business with. The way he, like, talked to sellers and, like, kinda treated him like they were, like, below him kind of stuff. It just wasn't, like, the, like, the vibe that I that I, like, jived with. You know?

I feel like everyone's equal, like and, but I I met another guy, through him, and me and him kind of branched off and started our own thing. And Gotcha. And that was rock solid.

Steve: When was that?

Keith: What was it? When was that? That was 2018. 2018.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So 2018, you find a new guy to partner with. At this point, had you done any deals with this guy or that you're just already, like, this isn't working? I'm out.

Like a couple.

Keith: Yeah. Okay.

Steve: Yeah. So were you involved in the deals or you were just kinda like I don't know. Like, not on the sidelines, but, like, not directly involved.

Keith: I mean, I wasn't, like, directly talking to the sellers, but I understood. I've learned how to, like, you know, underwrite the properties and what we're looking for and how to do you know, we were just doing, like, simple Craigslist ads and, you know, kinda, you know, Facebook posts and, ordering bandit signs and stuff like that. And Right.

Steve: Yeah. So then you go and partner with with this other guy, and you hit a hit the ground running? Or

Keith: Yeah. Like, and I'll say the other guy too, he he was never really into wholesaling. Mhmm. So we actually, like, I invested in, like, a flip with him, and we did a flip and and then, like, another one. And I'm like, man, this is amazing.

Like, you know, getting a good little ROI on, like, cash that I'd, like, saved and Yeah. And I was like, I could do this full time for and then, kinda as I'm learning more and more about real estate, I'm like, Beto, like, there's this thing called, like, wholesaling where we don't actually have to buy the property. We don't have to, you know, deal with realtors and

Steve: You're like Newton when the apple fell in the desert. It's like, oh my god. There's a whole another world.

Keith: Well, one of the one of the first deals that we got too, like, it was, it was one of the first ones I got on my car site, the very first lead. It was hot. Amazing deal. We got it. We flipped it.

We had it listed about a weekend, and a huge storm came in, flooded the whole house. All of our staging furniture floated off to one side.

Steve: Oh, jeez.

Keith: Full of water, everything. We had to flood cut the whole thing. Like, it was literally, like, just horrible. And it was, like, a 3,700 square foot house too, like, in a country club, like, a bigger house, and you really wanted to flip. But, yeah.

Like, right then, I was like, man. And so, like, I was, like, all in on let's do this wholesaling thing. And he was like

Steve: at least have the insurance on that thing?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. But still, I mean, there was stigma with the neighborhood now. People didn't even wanna buy and that Well,

Steve: that's true. But, like, there's a lot of people that don't insure their flips the right way.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, I didn't learn until unfortunately, it didn't happen to me. Right? I got to benefit learning from other people's mistakes. But there are a lot of people that, whether they're, it's a rental or it's a flip, insurance companies deny those all the time if it hasn't been occupied in the last thirty days unless you have a special rider.

Keith: Really?

Steve: Right? Yeah. And so, we I've seen plenty where they're like, oh, yeah. It is not covered because it's, like, it's been vacant for thirty one days.

Keith: Yeah. Oh my god. That'd be a nightmare.

Steve: Yeah. So it was covered. Yeah. Okay. Did you come out on top, or did you lose money on that deal?

Keith: We came out on top, but we didn't sell it for, like, a year. And, you know, I was I didn't have a ton of money at that time, so all my money is kinda sitting in this house that I you know, I was thinking we're gonna turn it over ninety days, not not twelve months. So it was just yeah. Yeah. Left a sour taste in my mouth for flipping.

And

Steve: and So then, like, okay. This whole selling thing, this this is it.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. And my partner at the time, he wasn't really into he's like, I tried, you know, I'm just not that good at it. Like, he was a he was a killer negotiator. Like, if you got him in a room with, like, any seller, I mean, people just loved him.

He'd laugh with the seller, cry with the seller, pray with them. Like, he would they they all felt great about selling him the house at, you know, a good decent price and, but, like, he didn't know how to market. Like, he was not really tech savvy. I mean, he still has an at AOL email if that tells you anything. But, like and I'm like, Roberto, like, you know, let me see.

Like, you know, let's get our let's get our phone ringing more, and then we you don't have to, like, you know, get every deal and then flip every single thing. And so we, Were you a good marketer at this point? I mean, I I was willing to work fourteen hours a day and learn and Okay. Yeah.

Steve: Well, because, like, yeah, I mean, if his challenge was that he wasn't good at marketing, but he's a killer salesperson.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: Then all he needs is a killer marketer.

Keith: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And so he's in Texas, and I'm up in my, in Washington. Mhmm.

So, like and that also so he did all the, you know, on the ground stuff, went and go So were

Steve: you doing deals in Texas, or you didn't do

Keith: I was doing deals in Texas from my house up in Washington. Okay.

Steve: So you were never doing deals in Washington?

Keith: I was after. I did that after. I was working with him for about a year before I actually started my own company up in Washington, Kind House Buyers, and that's what most people know me for. Where did you go to college? University of Washington.

Steve: University of Washington. And you've partnered with this guy in Texas. Mhmm.

Keith: How'd that happen? Actually so the guy that I met at the University of Washington, they were, like, border patrol agents, you know, back in the day, in, like, South Texas. And so, like, they were kind of buddies, and that's how I met him. So I actually did we closed, like, 30 deals together, and I actually never met him in person. We did, like, a ton of Zoom getting our Zoom calls and, but I actually never met him in person.

I actually met him in person for the first time at Garrett Camp where I got him to come to Garrett Camp with me and yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So, so you're doing auto marketing remotely for Texas. What part of Texas?

Keith: South Texas.

Steve: South Texas. The tip. Okay. Gotcha. Alright.

So you're doing deals. And then what did you figure about marketing at this point?

Keith: I I found pretty quickly that, like, all leads aren't the same. Right? Like, you know, I tried a bunch of different stuff, cold calling, texting, ringless voice mails, bandit signs. There were just some that, like, I could get really cheap ringless voice mail leads. I get really cheap text messaging leads, but you you'd have to talk to a lot of them.

Right? It was, like, 35 leads to actually close one deal. Right. And so, like, you know, that's you know, a ton of, you know, analyzing properties, a ton of follow-up, you know, probably, like, eight to 10 appointments out of all those. And and so, like, but with the online stuff, it was more like one in twelve, one in 15.

Mhmm. And so, especially, like, kinda being like a one man kinda show, like like, your quality of life goes way up when you have to talk to half as many people

Steve: to close

Keith: one deal.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. Most business owners waste their time and money on solutions that never fix the root problems. They'll address all the symptoms due to slow revenue.

And because they're only fixing the consequences, the real problem stays hidden and the cycle of wasting time and money continues. It's like having a lingering headache that won't go away despite trying every over the counter medicine. When reality, you should have just gone to the doctor and had them figure out exactly what was causing the headache. And that's what's so difficult about business. You can see and feel the symptoms and yet struggle to find it.

Now imagine you can find a prescription that doesn't just mask the symptoms but actually addresses the root cause. Where would your business be if you address that right now? That's what our sales event is about. Your marketing doesn't suck. Your leads aren't bad, and your operations aren't terrible.

It's that you haven't addressed what actually makes you money in wholesale, which is the the conversations you have with homeowners. It's critical that you build trust with sellers, demonstrate that you fully understand their situation, know exactly what's keeping them up at night, and paint the ideal outcome that leads them to a better future by working with you. That's what it takes to get signed contracts and keep your business going. Simply put, at our event, you'll walk away with the framework, phrases, questions, documents, and process to close more sales and buy more houses. Join the hundreds of others who have come to our live event and dramatically grown their business.

Our event is happening soon and is available for you to join only if you're willing to take the pill. But you didn't I guess, when you made this decision to go in a wholesaler versus flipping, were you the primary marketer for deals for flipping? Yeah. Okay. At this point, how you started doing PPC and SEO?

Keith: I've done a little bit of SEO. We hadn't even really done any pay per click yet. Okay. But yeah.

Steve: I see. Alright. So then you said, alright. I'm gonna figure this out, and you started doing online leads.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Okay. And then how was that journey?

Keith: It was good. I mean, I'd say I've done enough things wrong to know what to do right. Mhmm. Right? So, like, there was a ton of mistakes along the way.

I still learn new stuff all the time. But but it was good. Like I said, the very first lead that I got was just a killer deal. It was it was a killer deal, and that kinda got me hooked. I'm like, man, like, I wanna outrank everyone in this market, and I'm very competitive.

There was one guy at the time, his name's Hank, and it was like, Hank buys houses or something. And, like, my alarm every morning was literally, like, screw Hank. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna outrank him. And so, like, yeah.

Steve: Kinda Gotcha. Okay. So was that easy?

Keith: It was actually in that market, like, the South Texas market. There wasn't a lot of other people, you know, like, yeah. It actually was pretty easy. When I started up in Washington, it was a lot more competitive. Mhmm.

Right? So, like, yeah, it was harder. There's some markets that are just way easier to get into online than others.

Steve: Like I don't want to jump to you know, I don't make assumptions, but I imagine a small town, probably a little bit easier.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And then your town, your was it Tacoma? Tacoma

Keith: up in Washington?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that took a little bit more work.

Keith: It did. It did. And Tacoma is not even a big city. There's, like, a quarter million people there. Yeah.

But there's a lot of people online there. Mhmm. There's other spots that are, like, that are just dumb competitive for no reason, kinda like Philadelphia. Like, Philly is crazy competitive online. There's a ton of people doing SEO there, and, like, the juice isn't even really worth the squeeze.

Like, you know, the the population's not that high. And so once

Steve: know why that is?

Keith: Just more people doing it. Is that

Steve: what it is? Yeah. Because, like, I have my own little SEO journey. Right? And so, like, I wanna say around '20 I mean, I don't know.

It's 2009 is when I started doing it, but definitely, you know, 2010 to 2012. I know I was doing it when I was still doing REO stuff, listing properties or banks. And I was doing my own SEO, and, like, at this time, my understanding for and I was as a realtor, wearing a realtor hat. Right? At this time, basically, Phoenix and Austin were, like, the two most competitive for SEO.

Just for whatever reason, they're just leading tech. Right? And I go to California for these REO conferences, and I meet all these other realtors. And I talked to them about, like, websites and SEO and, like, page load speed and, like, link link trees and all these other things. And they look at me like I have, like, a, you know, another hole in my head.

They're like, what are you talking about?

Keith: Agents? Yeah.

Steve: Real estate. Right? I was particularly disappointed because it was actually Asian real estate conference.

Keith: So I

Steve: was like, man, like, you guys really are just not living up to the stereotype. Right? But, yeah, it just seems like it seemed like at least in California, back in early twenty tens, no one really cared about SEO. Yeah. Alright.

So you get this going easily in South Florida challenging in Tacoma? How quickly were you able to turn it around?

Keith: I I got my first deal up in Tacoma in, like, a six month period or, like, with around that six month mark. Mhmm. But, again, that was still, like, you know, I'm chugging along doing a thing. A lot of things that I thought, you know, where I was doing right or, like, you know, a lot of things that just weren't moving the needle, but I thought they probably were at that time and

Steve: What were some of those things that you thought would move the needle but then if you can remember?

Keith: Oh my god. Sub domain backlinks. Mhmm. Like, you know, doing your own little private, you know, blogs and stuff like that. Like, you know, sellmyhouse fast.mystrickenly or, you know, blogspot.com or something.

Like, those just aren't gonna power your site. At least they probably did back then. Actually, they they did actually a lot more then, but but now they don't. And Yeah.

Steve: I mean, that's kinda this is kinda stunts I would pull. Right? Like, again, I'm doing my own SEO. It's like, you have friends that have blogs.

Keith: Mhmm. Right? And

Steve: then you have on the right hand side these, like, blog links. Right? Like, here are the blogs that we recommend. Right? And, like, 10 of you guys are all pointing to each other's blogs.

And, like, they're real blogs. Right? And they had, page rank. They had juice until they didn't. Right?

And there was, like, you know, the the big thing you guys heard me complain about it. Sorry. You guys keep bringing it up. Right? Panda and penguin.

Right? Like Yep. White hat tactics, This works with, the blue anchor text, right, over and over again, and it doesn't. And then what was considered white hat immediately becomes black hat. So what you're talking about, the subdomains and the block spot and all this and, what was it?

What was the other one? There's a there's a there's a a blog site that, like, is is is morphed into something really awful. It wasn't blogger. But you know what I'm talking about? It's, it's for a specific group of people.

Keith: Yeah. I mean, there's a pile of them.

Steve: Right. But, anyway, they were they were all, you would you you would get that blog just to get the page rank, and you loop move it over here. And then Mhmm. That momentum all kinda disappeared. So what other things did you try that, like, you thought would be good then didn't work?

Keith: I mean, like, even, like, social media posting and stuff, like, it it helps a tiny bit, but it's not something to go spend a ton of time on. It's not really gonna move the needle.

Steve: So and we're gonna definitely wanna talk about what's gonna move the needle. So you come in here, you're wearing a carrot shirt. Right? So were you always using carrot to do all this work?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have, like, 12 different websites. All my all my sites are carrot sites.

Steve: So it's fascinating. Right? Because Trevor launched carrot a long time ago. And the point of Carrot because I remember hanging out with Adrian as

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Before he passed. And the point with Carrot was to have great SEO ranking, great page load speed, but not necessarily pretty. Right? But it works. It still works today.

Keith: Absolutely. There it still works today?

Steve: Yeah. Before SEO.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anything, like, you know, you still need to do stuff to your site. Of

Steve: course. You need to do things to it. Yeah. But, like, as a wireframe, right, versus, like, getting, like, a WordPress site or, I don't know, go high level site or whatever people are using to design websites.

Keith: Yeah. I mean, you could definitely go get a WordPress site. It's just, it's you know, for the average real estate investor, it's gonna take them a lot more energy and time to get that off the ground. And let's just say you go hire someone to go do your custom site, and then, you know, you wanna add some more pages or you need to tweak something, and then you gotta go find that person again. And, you know, if they're ghosting you, like, Carrot's got, you know, support right there, like Mhmm.

Five days a week, nine to five, boom. You can, you know, pop in the chat and they're always there to help.

Steve: But why is Carrot so effective?

Keith: I mean, again, you can't you could take a WordPress site and go rank it. Like, you know, definitely care as killer, you know, site speed. Like Mhmm. They're faster than faster than a bunch. They have a lot of other things just built in and makes it so you can jump off the ground really quick, like forms.

Right? Go try to create a two step form with, like, text message and, you know, autoresponders to to clients, like, on WordPress. Like, that's gonna take you a week if you can figure it out. Right? And you just jump on carrot and that's already know.

So it's

Steve: not any particular technological advantages. It's just having a community of other people trying to do the same thing as you. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay.

So then what are some of your biggest victories inside, you know, your real estate journey and then your SEO journey?

Keith: Man. A ton of stuff along the way. On the real estate side I mean, one of the coolest things that I love so, so, like, I did it on wholesaling. I've closed a ton of deals. We did the flipping and stuff.

I haven't really been super interested in you know, I love SEO. I don't know why my brain just like, this stuff, like, really excites me. It's fun. It's competitive. I like it more than I like closing deals.

Like, I'm good at negotiating with sellers and stuff, but I, it just drains my energy at the end of the day. Right. So, like, actually, a couple years ago, I've actually start I passed all my leads from all my websites off to one guy, and we split the deals fifty fifty. So, like, my website's like an asset, right, where we, like like, I actually haven't talked to a seller in, like, a year and a half now.

Steve: In Tacoma?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Or anywhere.

Steve: Yeah. Well and this is something that, Trevor talked about when he was on the show.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: And it was a energy audits.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Sounds like you did an energy audit.

Keith: Absolutely.

Steve: So for those that had didn't watch the episode, you guys should go back and watch the episode with Trevor. Can you elaborate on what an energy audit is?

Keith: Oh my god. It's yeah. It's just kinda going through. Right? Like, as as an entrepreneur or business owner or whatever, there's hundreds of different, you know, hats or hats you could be wearing and doing different things.

Some things are gonna, you know, take away your energy and some, you know, like, I hate the accounting or bookkeeping or, you know, negotiating, selling, that kind of stuff, dealing with, you know, buyers. It's just but there's things that when I do do, like, I actually, you know, I'm I'm fired up. I'm pumped and, like, I actually brings me energy and makes me wanna show up to the next day to work. Right? And so, kinda laying out all those little things, writing them down.

What what drives you, what doesn't, and kinda delegating all the stuff or just eliminating it depending, you know, changing your business model. You know, there's all kinds of different ways Yeah. To kinda just do more things that fire you up.

Steve: Gotcha. So you did an energy audit at some point. You decided, okay. All the things in real estate don't excite me. So any leads just gonna it's just gonna go to one

Keith: guy. Mhmm.

Steve: And then you get to spend more time doing SEO. Yep. So, we put the bold claim in the title over a million dollars worth of real estate leads every single month. Now, technically, a million and a half, but it doesn't quite flow the same in the title. Yeah.

Right? So, technically, 1,000,001 half in real estate traffic or in in traffic that is someone would pay 1 and a half million for.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Is that accurate?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. So, like, if you were gonna do, like, pay per click Mhmm. Right, you'd be spending, like, you know, that's how much in or we generate, like, for different clients and

Steve: Okay.

Keith: Across some other sites of my own.

Steve: How many clients would you estimate you've got across for the million and a half?

Keith: About, like, 50. 50 clients. Yeah.

Steve: So rough math. Right? So one and a half. That'd be a 150, right, for five. So $30,000 worth of leads per month in SEO leads, which, like, for someone I mean, 30,000 goes a pretty long way in in PPC.

Right? So when we're spending 30,000 a month PPC, they're basically getting $30,000 worth of leads for free through SEO.

Keith: I mean, free, like Cheap. Way cheaper. Way cheaper. Yeah. Like, it's way cheaper.

SEO is, like like, definitely the cheapest cost per lead out there over time. It's not in the beginning because you gotta spend some time, energy, effort to, like, build your stuff up. You know? Get the name of the game with SEO is dialing your page better than the guy next to you. Mhmm.

And then get more slash better backlinks than the guy next to you. So if the guy next to you has, you know, a lot of backlinks, you need to catch up to them. So usually, you're, you know, velocity really heavy in the beginning. Mhmm. But then once you get up there and you're outranking everyone in your market, unless you wanna expand, you don't have to keep on getting more backlinks just for the sake of getting backlinks.

I mean, you wanna get a few to look relevant, but, like, I'm talking, like, $500 a month or something. Right? Not, like, 3,000 to when you're, like, really trying to grow.

Steve: Okay. So let's just do a case study.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? So you and I, we're best friends. Right? Well, technically, we met in 2019. Right?

Keith: Mhmm. In

Steve: in, Biloxi.

Keith: Biloxi, Mississippi.

Steve: Mississippi. Right? So let's just pretend you're like, man, Steve, I like what you're doing. I wanna help you be the king of SEO in Phoenix.

Keith: Let's do it.

Steve: Right. Let's do it. Walk me through what you would do to become the king of SEO in Phoenix.

Keith: Yeah. So first, dialing your website. Okay. And what I mean by that is create, you know, a really good location. Like, I'm sure, like So

Steve: let's take a step back. Yep. So you're talking about domain, or are you talking about a website?

Keith: Like, your website. Okay. You could have any domain. I mean, the guy that's ranking number one right here is, like, Doug Hopkins, I think.

Steve: Right. So let's take another step back then just to really, really make it basic. Right? Am I going carrot? Am I going to WordPress?

Keith: I'd take over carrot. Okay.

Steve: So because you're doing this. Right? We're doing this together.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So carrot. Carrot. Right? Domain doesn't really matter that much.

Keith: Not really.

Steve: Okay. So now we're gonna create the website.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: What are the elements we need inside the website?

Keith: Location pages are the biggest.

Steve: Okay. What does that mean?

Keith: So Google doesn't rank websites. They rank pages. And in our industry, each page should be about, like, a location. Right? So if you wanna rank in the city of Phoenix, you would have one super awesome page all about, you know, sell my house fast Phoenix.

We buy houses, cash home buyers, company that buys houses, cash for my house, everything Phoenix. So Trying to get as many keywords as possible.

Steve: Each one of those pages.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: For

Keith: Phoenix. One for Phoenix?

Steve: Oh, for Phoenix?

Keith: One for, you know, one for Tempe, one for Gilbert, one for Scottsdale, one for any city that you care about.

Steve: Okay. So a is this an about page or we buy houses?

Keith: They'd all be like we buy houses kind of stuff.

Steve: So I have a we buy houses Phoenix. We buy houses surprise. We buy houses Tempe.

Keith: Yep. All on the same website, though.

Steve: Okay. All on the same website so that they kinda link to each other.

Keith: Yep.

Steve: Is that more or less correct?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So I'm gonna create all these pages.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And it's about we buy houses, sell my house fast. That's the I don't I don't think we're allowed to say keyword stuffing, but the idea is we want those keywords inside the website on outside that page.

Keith: We want keywords, but actually what's more important are, like, single words, single word densities. Mhmm. The old way of SEO would be, like, if I wanna rank for, like, sell my house fast, I would put sell my house fast over and over again on a page.

Steve: Right.

Keith: Well, as you know, you know, they got smart. You know, that doesn't work anymore. They call it keyword stuffing if you do it too much. Right. What does and honestly, sell my house fast is a crappy keyword.

Mhmm. Like, straight up. Like, everyone that wants to sell their house and Google sell my like, they wanna sell it fast. Right? Mhmm.

Whether they're gonna sell it with an agent or whatnot. Like, no one Google sell my house slowly. But just because they wanna sell their house fast doesn't mean they want a cash offer. It doesn't mean they wanna sell it for cash. Does that necessarily imply intent?

Exactly. Exactly. So, I'd rather go cash keywords, like sell my house for cash, cash home buyers, company that buys houses for cash, cash for my house. We buy houses cash is a way better keyword than we buy houses. Same same as, you know, sell my house for cash is Right.

Way more intent. So the conversion rate goes, like, way up. I'm talking, like, 20% conversion rate, which means, like, you know, one in five clicks turns into a lead instead of, you know, one in 35 or, you know, one in 90. Like yeah. Right.

And so, like, as far as, like, this so the single word density, like, so I would have if I wanna rank for a page, like, you know, location page, I want it to be optimized for selling a house for cash in Phoenix. Mhmm. I would have sell, house, and cash, the the most used words on that page. Mhmm. Not necessarily in that order, though.

Steve: And necessarily phrase.

Keith: Exactly. So, like, I and I would have them, like, you know, 2% density. So sell house cash and then Phoenix. Mhmm. They're, like, right underneath that.

Steve: Got it.

Keith: So I'm signaling to Google that's what this page is about. Mhmm. Right? And then we would wanna sprinkle in, you know, we buy houses, sell my house, sell my house for cash, cash home buyers. You know, just mentioning a couple of those because you can't really you can't rank for stuff if you don't have it on your page.

Steve: Right.

Keith: But the single word density is, not only helps you show up for, you know, the stuff you know, those those keywords that you type in, but it also helps you show up for, like, the thousands of other phrases that people search every single day that aren't, you know, even proper grammar or, like, you know, all kinds of random stuff.

Steve: Mhmm.

Keith: And again so, like, you know, buy my home, right, is a huge keyword. Like, there's no one more motivated than someone that Google's, like, who will buy my home or who will buy my house. Mhmm. Like, they're ready to go. But if you, you know, if you have buy if you have house, you know, at a high enough density, you show up for that.

Not necessarily we buy houses Mhmm. But they're just putting buy at a you know? So

Steve: So one location page for each city in Phoenix Metro. Yeah. Okay. Now what you're talking about a lot, it sounds like there's a lot of on page SEO.

Keith: That is half of it. Half of it, dialing your page.

Steve: Half of it is on page SEO. So is that enough if we have, like, just those pages for me to start ranking for Phoenix as far as what I can do on the website?

Keith: You'll jump up a ton. It it can be enough in a lot of, like, even the outskirt cities. Mhmm. I could get you leads with just making a without really, like, any links. Mhmm.

But if you want, like, consistent, you know, monthly where you're like, hey. I'm closing at least a deal a month from SEO, you're gonna want backlinks to power those pages.

Steve: So is there anything else I need to do as far as on page goes before we talk about off page?

Keith: I mean, I could talk about every little thing. Right? Like, the first thing

Steve: Got time. Google, at the end of

Keith: the day, it's just an algorithm. It's a robot, and its whole job is to crawl pages and and put the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible.

Steve: So Right.

Keith: Our job is is to show Google that we have the best and the most complete answer through all these little data points. Like, the first thing that algorithm crawls is your title. Right? So, you know, actually putting what this page is about. I see a lot of people put their company name right there Really?

On their homepage. Right? But but, again, Google doesn't rank websites. They rank pages, and so each page needs needs to be about its own thing. Most people have a page to rank for their company.

It's usually, like, our company or about us or something. So I'm not gonna put my company name on my page. It's supposed to be optimized for we buy houses in Phoenix, sell my house for cash Phoenix, if that makes sense. So the title and then the meta description, those single word densities, are really important. So sell house cash, 2%.

Phoenix, one and a half to 2% right underneath that. We do wanna mention fast. Even though it's not super motivated, it's high volume, and it's hard to tell Google you have the most complete answer about, you know, selling a house quickly to, you know, if you don't put fast in there. And then also buy because, again, that's, that helps you with some really low hanging fruit

Steve: Gotcha.

Keith: And some really good, stuff. And then after that, your headings. Headings are super valuable piece of real estate. SEO etiquette says you should have one h one, and h one is, like, your main title for that for that page. Right?

If you look on, like, my site, a lot of my client sites, I'll put two keywords in my h one. Mhmm. Be like, you know, we buy houses Tacoma, and then I'll just hit, like, shift enter, command enter depending to break the line, and then, you know, sell my house fast for cash. So I got, like, two you know, because you one h one, I'm trying to make the most of it. And then after that, your h twos are your secondary headings.

And so those are, like, the secondary topics underneath that main keyword that you're trying to go after. And for me, all my h two should have a keyword and a location. Mhmm. So that's, I see people put all kinds of, you know, random stuff or, like, instead of, like like, how it works. But, like, again, Google is just an algorithm.

When you put a heading that just says how it works, I don't understand what that is. Right? Like, are you a cash check cashing place, a used car dealership? Like, you know, a better heading would be, like, how to sell your house for cash in Phoenix Mhmm. Or, you know, etcetera.

Or instead of saying, you know, why sell to Steve Trang? You know, why sell your house to cash home buyers in Phoenix Mhmm. Would be a way better heading. And so that those h two's are really valuable piece of real estate, and that's how you pick up, like, a ton like, a lot of other keywords. Mhmm.

The images are also a big spot where I see a lot of people kind of falling short. They'll just, you know, they'll, you you know, they'll say screenshot one two seven nine whatever Mhmm. Or, you know, just any random thing. Right? But, you can pick up a lot of keywords on the back end with, with optimizing images.

So if I wanna rank for something like cash home buyers in Tacoma, I'm gonna make it a heading, then I'll talk about that thing under that heading. Right? And you're selling your house, you know, for cash to kind house buyers or to a cash home buyer in Tacoma. And then, like, you know, my image, Keith Sant, it's not called Keith Sant, the owner of Kind House Buyers. It's literally named cash home buyer Tacoma.

Cash house buyer Tacoma. And then I'll go to the next block. We buy houses in Tacoma. I have, you know, all the situations when you sell your house or we buy houses company, and then I got, like, you know, six different icons right underneath that each one. You know?

We buy houses, we buy homes, we buy houses as is, we buy houses fast. Name all your buy houses cash. Yeah. So you have, like, four different op you know, you have the the title, the file name, the alt text, and the description Mhmm. On each on each image, and you could pick up a ton of stuff on the back end.

Steve: Right.

Keith: Even things like like like sale my house Mhmm. Is a really or, like, people Google sale my house all the time. Right. Right? And I'm never gonna put sale my house on my page because, you know, not proper grammar.

But if someone Google sale my house, I wanna be there. Those are my people. But, so

Steve: That's fast. I've never thought about sale my house.

Keith: Oh, man. Yeah. So if I put sale, you know, sale my house quickly and stuff like that, or even, like, we buy ugly kind of stuff on the back end. I won't won't put it on my stuff on my page, but, you know, we buy ugly homes. We buy, you know, ugly house.

We buy, you know, different stuff on the back end. So you could show up for those kind of phrases.

Steve: That's brilliant. Okay. So then, so that's on page. What about the do you have is there any particular tools you like for tracking to make sure you're not violating the density and so on?

Keith: SEOquake is just a really good free Chrome plug in. I use it all the time. It's free. You could look at those, you know, the single word densities, triple word densities, all that stuff, like, right there. Look at your headings.

And and, the cool thing about SEO is you don't have to have the best website in the world. You just gotta be a little better than the guy in front of you. And a lot of times, that bar is a lot lower than you think. Mhmm. And so you could use that tool to, you know, look at your competitor sites, look at your site, look at my sites, and kinda see what you're doing.

Steve: It's kinda like the the old, story about, like, you know, if a bear was chasing the two of us, I don't have to be faster than a bear.

Keith: Exactly. Yep. Just faster than that than your buddy.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then where does Google My Business in in all this?

Keith: Oh my god. Yeah. So, like, Google My Business. Google I guess they call it Google Business Profile now.

Steve: Gonna change it again. Yeah. It's always changing.

Keith: I know. Google Places now.

Steve: Whatever. Yeah.

Keith: Yeah. It's, it's a so it's basically right? So just what it is is, like, your business directory listing on Google. Right? So if you Google something like McDonald's and you see, like, the three McDonald's on the map, that's that's a Google business profile.

Mhmm. And it's really in, you know, one of the fastest, easiest ways to get to the top of Google. You know, kind of little SEO hack, right, to get up there. You could optimize a Google My Business profile, like, in in, like, an hour or so. And you'll see, like, a tremendous amount of, you know, like, increase in traffic, clicks, everything just from just from that.

Right. And, like, I've gotten as many as, like, 15 leads in a month off of, like, one Google My Business profile.

Steve: Do you have any strategies in making sure that that, your profile, gets more clicks versus, again, your buddy who you're competing against. Right? Like, how do you outrank someone that's on on your Google Google profile now, you said? Google business profile.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Google business. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, honestly, it sounds stupid, but one of the best things is just fill everything out. Mhmm. You know, you know, most people leave it super incomplete. Like, they don't put their hours. They don't put the year they're open.

They don't put you know, they might have it gives you an out about a section where you could put 750 characters. I see people put two lines. Like, we buy, you know, we're a real estate investment company out of, you know, Beaumont, Montana or something. You know, family owned and operated. Mhmm.

It's like that doesn't really you have no keywords in there whatsoever. You don't yeah. Like, just fill everything out. I'll I'll put as many keywords in there as I can. You could put products.

Right? Like, yeah. I got a product, free cash offer on your house in twenty four hours or less. You know, services, you know, to cash for houses, cash for condos, cash for land, cash home buyers. We buy houses.

You know, As

Steve: we're talking, I'm just feeling more and more bad about myself because I've I don't know I don't know how much money I left on the table, but, like, definitely, the all those things are neglected. I was the guy that would put two lines. Right?

Keith: We'll fix it after the show. I saw yours this morning. Yeah. We gotta fix it.

Steve: Dang it. Okay.

Keith: What's cool though is yeah. You got nowhere to go up nowhere to go but, and right there on your giz on your business profile too, it'll show you, like, I forget what the word but basically your progress. Yeah. Right? So you'll be able to see, like, hey, after I made these changes, like, boom, this is what happened.

Gotcha. And it's such low low hanging fruit and so easy. You could literally just do a couple things. Right. Like like, again, like, the year opened is really important.

Because, like, let's just say you're you know, there's three of you guys that, you you know, someone Googles we buy houses, and three of them pop up in the map pack. You know, all you guys have the exact same reviews, but, like, this one, five plus years in business, seven plus years in business, and you didn't even put anything. Mhmm. Right? Like, who who's gonna click on it.

Right?

Steve: Yeah.

Keith: Opening hours is another huge one. Right? A lot of people, nine to five. But, like, sellers get off work at five, and that's when they wanna go and, like, try to sell their house or they're not or I've seen ton of investors that are closed on the weekends. I get more hot leads, and I've closed more deals from leads on Sundays than any other day.

And I see people that are closed on Sunday. I'm like, wow. You're

Steve: I wanna say when I was when I was doing myself before having the team do it, I when I was just doing it all manually. I wanna say I was always eight to eight, seven days a week. Yeah. Yeah. Right?

Because if you wanna go do something, I'm available.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Alright. Okay. So let's go to my business. So, what about off page? Is that is that considered an off Google is that off page SEO?

Google My Business?

Keith: I mean, it's kinda it's a little different. Right? I mean, but

Steve: it It's like a third thing.

Keith: It's like a gateway drug in SEO is Google My Business. Because when you could get some leads from that, like, really quick. And and once you realize, like, wow, these are hot online leads, and I didn't just pay $500 for them, you're like, I want more. And and that's when you start really jumping into the SEO.

Steve: Yeah. There are two types of salespeople out there. They're the convincers, and they're the sales professionals. For the first nine years of my career, I was the convincer. Convincers are always out there trying to convince people to meet with them and buy from them.

Their strategy is to try to push hard and never take no for an answer. And by focusing on this strategy, they spend a lot of time on cold calling, the next marketing gimmick, features and benefits, how they and their company are the best, following up until the prospect buys or dies. All of this requires time and energy. The problem isn't the model itself. It's that their approach pushes prospects away.

And this is the same exact thing that happened to me before I figured out the close more sales formula. The solution, sell customers exactly what they want to buy. That's right. I said it. We sell customers exactly what they want to buy because I would rather get an easy sell with a happy customer instead of a difficult sell from a customer who felt sold.

No. Thanks. I did that before, and it sucks. So here's the deal. I explain everything in the closed more sales course.

It's an 11 module course that shows you everything you need to know to close more sales. The best part, you can use this in any industry, not just real estate. So no matter what you're selling and to who you're selling to, this formula will lead to easier sales. Go to closemoresales.com/salesmasterclass, one word, closemoresales.com/salesmasterclass. Lead, late last year.

She was like, yeah. We're just on your Google reviews. We wanna sell our house to you.

Keith: Yeah. That's it. Exactly. Show up.

Steve: Just buy the house. Mhmm. Okay. So what about off page SEO?

Keith: Yeah. So, typically, a lot of that is just backlinks. Mhmm.

Steve: So

Keith: and just to tell me what a backlink is

Steve: Yeah.

Keith: Is basically when another website links to your website. And it sounds stupid, like, why would that matter?

Steve: Mhmm.

Keith: But it really, like, accounts for, like, over 50% of your SEO. And the reason why is because, again, Google's whole job is for the best and the most complete answer in front of a searcher as fast as possible, but they wanna put it from a real legit credible company that has good content. And the best way Google could determine is this a good company that has good content is are other people linking to that content and that other and to the site. Yeah. Because other websites wouldn't be linking to scammy, fly by night websites.

Mhmm. Right? And so that's why that, you know, dialing your page better than the guy next to you, get more better backlinks than the guy next to you.

Steve: So how does someone go about getting backlinks?

Keith: Like, the natural organic way, right, is to like, what most people do, what I did, for, like, the longest time was just reach out to a ton of website owners. Mhmm. Say, hey. You know, I love your blog. It's awesome.

You put out such good content. Like, I'd love to contribute to it. I can write you a free a free article about how to sell your house with code violations and, or, you know, one of these five, six, seven topics. Right? You choose, and I'll write it for free.

In exchange, you let me link on that page.

Steve: Right.

Keith: Right? So, basically, you might, reach out to, you know, 300 people, and four or five of them say, sure. Yeah. I'll let you, like, write an article. And now you gotta go and write those, you know, three to five articles, and then send them to them and hope they publish them, and then, boom, you got a link.

Right. When your competitors have, you know, been doing this for a while and they have, you know, 500 links and you're trying to close deals, like, it it's a grind. Right? It's a it's a grind.

Steve: So it's basically you need, someone in your organization, whether yourself, maybe VA, or someone, just constantly doing outbound touches to say, hey. Can I write an article on your website?

Keith: That it yeah. That's one of the ways. Right? I know, HARO was another way. Right?

Like, they call it, like, help a reporter out. Yeah. There's a couple other, like, versions like Turco and some other ones. But, that's where, you know, reporters are constantly trying to write articles, write stories, and they wanna quote someone. And so, they'll post something, you know, that day, like, hey.

Are you interested in and, you know, do do I have any real estate people here that can answer question about question about, I don't know, VA financing for, you know, something. And then you go and, like, respond to that question, you and a 100 other people. And, if that reporter liked your quote more than a lot of the other guys, they, you know, might quote you and then put a link to your website in exchange.

Steve: Right.

Keith: Sometimes, though, they don't give you a link or it's a nofollow link or

Steve: Yeah. I've I've had that experience. Yeah. The nofollow are like, hey. You forgot to link to my website.

Keith: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. So a lot of, like, a lot of manual work then to to build the backlinks.

Keith: Yes. Absolutely.

Steve: So in in one way, that sounds like a lot of heavy work. But another way, that's like a moat you can build. Because if you do it and other people don't, you have a competitive advantage.

Keith: Exactly. Yeah. And a lot of people are just too, like You can say it. Not not lazy, but, like, you know, it's just, they're not willing to wait. Right?

The delayed gratification. Because it's not something that happens overnight. It it could take a while. Like, even with a a brand new site, it it take me a few months before I even start getting, like, one lead on. Yeah.

But, I mean, the yeah. The the juice is worth the squeeze. You could start pay per click today and start getting leads. The thing with pay per click and like any other marketing channel is keep on going up. Yeah.

And they're super expensive. Mhmm. And you can start doing a ton of backlinks on your site today and, you know, put up you know, put that foundation in place Mhmm. And then just be coasting off your, you know, your work for, like, years. Like, I hardly do anything on my website anymore, like, $500 a month.

And it's like, you know, we did, like, $80 in assignments, like, last month. Like Mhmm. Not, you know, not not crazy. Like, some some other people, but, like, we're as you know, the ROI is, like, huge. Yeah.

Yeah. And

Steve: it's kinda like, so we have Brandon Bateman here. Right? Bateman Collective. He's talked about, like it's like, all the above strategy. Like, it's not don't do PPC.

It's just do SEO while you're doing PPC.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Absolutely. Build the foundation while you're building everything else. Yeah. What's a reasonable amount? Right?

So so you and I talk and afterwards, you're like, you know what, Steve? Forget it. Go do it yourself. What's the reasonable amount for someone who's spending in a market like Phoenix?

Keith: Like,

Steve: To do their own SEO or to hire a company to do SEO?

Keith: Oh, man. Slow to question. I mean, so, like so we do SEO. Right? And if you wanted to hire me, like, again, we try to be very transparent and, like, exact you know what you're getting.

It's like, it's not like one of those companies, like, oh, we do we do SEO for you for $1,500 a month. And it's like, okay. What am I what SEO am I getting for $1,500? Right? Like, SEO, two parts.

Dialing your page. We do that for people. We'll take a site, and it's it's a flat fee, $5,000. Mhmm.

Steve: And

Keith: I optimize your site just like I would my own. I fix all the errors that you probably have, a bunch of stuff. I optimize it with, like, 60 location pages, and then boom. Now that's dialed in. Mhmm.

Right? And then the backlinks, we do backlinks for people just based on their goals and their budget. I got some guys doing $500 a month in backlinks. I got some guys doing, like, 5,000. It just depends.

And but, like, I got I got a guy here in Phoenix for, like, $500 a month, and he's getting, you know, more leads than you would think for that, you know, for that price. But, you know, if you were to, like, hey. Hey, Keith. How can I take a a site here in Phoenix and get it off the ground and, you know, get as many leads as fast as possible? Like, I'd probably say you'd probably wanna be around, like, 2 to $3,000 a month Yeah.

To catch up to those other guys. And then the thing is too, like, again, Google doesn't rank websites, they rank pages. And so each page that you care about, probably needs some some links. Phoenix is gonna need more links than, like, any other city around. But, like, if you look, you know, look at your competitors, there's a little tool called MozBar, which is another little free plugin.

Super, you know, you click on anyone's, like, you know, Gilbert or Tempe or Sanrio or, you know, all the little pure or whatever the cities around here. They they might, most of them probably didn't even create the city pages. Right? They just have Phoenix page. And then if they did, they probably didn't put any backlinks on those pages.

So usually, I'm able to get people, like, fast ones by putting one or two backlinks on some of their small cities. What we're waiting for Phoenix and, like, their Arizona State page and some of the other, you know, competitive ones to really start ranking.

Steve: So yeah. Gotcha. Okay. And so, let's say I've talked to a lot of people in the past, you know, and they're like, why don't you do this service? Why don't you do that service?

And they're like, I don't even know what questions to ask.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? So you different scenario. Right? So I say, hey, Keith. Look.

I don't wanna work with you. Conflict of interest. Right? But I like you to help me vet

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Other SEO provider. What questions should I be asking this other SEO provider?

Keith: First off, what am I getting for my money? Mhmm.

Steve: Opportunity to scorch earth, by the way. Right.

Keith: Yeah. There you go. You know, there there's a few things. Right? Like, man, there's so many so I didn't create an SEO company because I wanted to.

I felt like the world needed me to because no one else was doing it right. Mhmm. I saw a lot of people were asking me, you know, years ago, like, hey, Keith. Will you do SEO for me? Like, and I'm like, dude, I'm over here closing deals.

I'm busy. I'll I'll tell you what to do, but, like, it's just not my thing. I would even refer them to other companies that I thought were, like, doing, you know, probably the best at the time. Mhmm. But then I realized they were still, like, you know, not doing not malicious.

Like, hey, they're just selling snake oil. But they're doing all these things that just aren't gonna move the needle. Like like, a ton of blog posts that are probably gonna get de indexed anyways and end up hurting you or stuff that just, you know, wasn't optimized or, overspinning on backlinks, like HARO links. Right? Like, HARO links are are high quality and will help you.

But, if you just keep writing for HARO and getting, you know, the same reporters from the same websites or are, you know, doing HARO pitches every day. And, like, it's not about how many backlinks you get, but it's more getting different backlinks from different websites. Diversity. Yeah. Yeah.

And so if I just keep on writing and for the go banking rates and the first backlink you get from go banking rates powers up your site a 100%. The second one powers it up 30 more percent. The third one even less. So you get, like, diminishing returns. And so if all you're buying are these $600 HARO links over and over again, spending 3 to $5,000 a month and, you know, it's it's a waste of money.

It's a huge waste of money. And, so, yeah, kinda what are you getting? Also, what kind of backlinks? What are are they power are they gonna power your website or not? Mhmm.

At the end of the day, all we care about is is this web is this backlink gonna power my website? Right. From that perspective, you know, subdomains, like I mentioned before, just aren't gonna power your website. So that's anything.something.com. Mhmm.

Right? Is a subdomain backlink. They're they're just not gonna offer any power.

Steve: Yeah. It's kinda like we saw for some time, people were really excited, like, you know, it was like ireporter.cnn.com or whatever it was.

Keith: I was

Steve: like, yeah. Or ireport.cnn.com. I was like, that's great, but that's not the same.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

There's a bunch of other things, like how many other links are on that same page. So let's just say, you got a backlink from a decent site, but they also link to 50 other people on that exact same page. Mhmm. And so a page has a finite amount of power that it could pass, you know, link juice to all the different links on that page. So if you're one of 50, you're, you know, verse I'd rather be on a one of five.

Right? The the your backlink juice is basically gonna be divided by 50 at that point. And I've seen some, you know, one or 200, one or 300, and everything else on paper looks good. The other big thing with with backlinks and is it gonna power is how far away from the homepage are you. And what I mean by that is, like, those dashes.

Right? Like so, like, it might be, like, stevetrain.com dash, real estate, dash, you know, business dash September 2022 dash archives dash this page. So now you're, like, seven steps away from the homepage. Mhmm. And you got the farther away you are from the homepage, the less relevant and important that page is to Google, and so it powers your site way less.

Right. So you wanna be as close to the homepage as possible. So, like, one or two steps is kinda ideal. Mhmm. And so those are the big things as far as and then the domain authority.

That's what most people look at. Right? And so people you know, you'll see stuff that you go on fiber or something. Oh, we'll give you backlinks from, you know, domain authority, like, 50 plus. And you're like, oh, wait.

That's a subdomain, and you're one of 500 links, and it's super far away from the home page. And, you know, you buy 500 of those and you wonder why you don't, like, move up in the rankings whatsoever, that's usually why.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, like, buying backlinks from Fiverr and those kinds of places, like, those are the ways that I wanted to destroy my competition is what I would do.

Keith: Do. Right. Exactly. Alright.

Steve: Like, let me go buy a bunch of, like, suspicious links.

Keith: Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Steve: Never did that. Right? But I can't say it's not. It never crossed my mind. Right.

And, you know, it's funny. We're talking about, you know, if you and I were to potentially partner. A few years back, I had a guy reach out to me.

Keith: Mhmm. Right?

Steve: He's like, oh, hey. Like, look. Phoenix is gonna be easy to rank for. Let me do it for you, and then we'll work together. And, like, every lead that closes, right, like, you guys keep 70, I'll keep 30.

I was like, okay. Like, cost of lead is zero.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: I will gladly give 30% if it costs me nothing to acquire. Right? It's just revenue. Pay my sales guys 10%, pay my TEC 500. The math works out pretty well.

Right? I'm like, yeah. For sure. Let's do it. Right?

And then nothing.

Keith: Just go city. Yeah.

Steve: Just nothing.

Keith: And I

Steve: was like, what was the point of wasting my time having me go like, I drafted, like, the LLC docs and everything, operating agreement. Right? Did the we went, like Oh my

Keith: god.

Steve: This was intentional. I was like, look. I want this to be clear. Mhmm. Right?

Expectation is partnership. What you're doing, what I'm doing, what we're responsible for, got a new website, right, to to make sure, like because I don't wanna send it to my website because it's like, you know, how do they find the website? It's like, got a new website so that it's clear any leads that came from this website was from your efforts, and then nothing. How often do you hear stuff like this?

Keith: I've heard of a guy doing that. I don't know him personally. I've seen it like he, a buddy of mine in El Paso and kind of fell for that same thing, and the guy didn't really do anything. And, maybe did something, but it didn't it wasn't moving the needle, like, whatsoever.

Steve: It's just, like, it's just wild. So maybe that's just an isolated incident. And then you were saying earlier, Phoenix is, like, prime for pickings.

Keith: No. There's a few different markets that are, you know, that I've worked in that are, kinda really competitive on the ground. Right? Like, there's, you know, iBuyers and hedge funds and a ton of people out there, you know, marketing, doing, you know, all these different marketing channels, but they're not doing SEO. Like like, you know, they could.

And, yeah, there's a there's a lot of opportunity right

Steve: here in

Keith: Phoenix, which is kind of insane for how many gurus and people there are. This is not just

Steve: the real estate guru, but also, like, the sales guru capital of the world as well. Right? So if everyone is watching right now, like, are there any particular cities, like, if you're in this city, it's, like, you should jump on this.

Keith: Oh my god. South Carolina is, like, low hanging fruit. That's one of the biggest ones is South Carolina and then here. I mean, there's some, a few other, but the biggest thing are those cities right outside the big ones. Mhmm.

Right? Like, everyone and their mom has a Dallas page. A lot of them don't have a Mesquite or Arlington or, you know, all those other little ones. And, you know, they're decent decent volume and very little competition. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. And then is this kinda like this is kinda like a site question, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. But is that, like, what the PPL companies are doing?

Keith: As what do you mean?

Steve: Doing SEO for these smaller markets that they can sell in those markets or no?

Keith: I mean, definite like, when I say small markets, I'm not talking, like, out in the middle of nowhere. Right? But I mean, those those markets. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I'm But, like, here, like, it'd be kinda like a Flagstaff. Right? Like, it's just it's a mile and half north of here. No major players, but decent

Keith: sized population. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm I imagine they are. I I know that.

Yeah.

Steve: And then, you and I actually met, at Real Estate Roundup.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? So we had Andy here, a few weeks back. He's like, oh, yeah. My friend, Keith Sands. Like, oh, Keith.

I remember Keith. Right. I remember Keith specifically, not for SEO, but for the guy that got the orange cowboy hat.

Keith: Right. Right?

Steve: So you remember that? Uh-huh.

Keith: I still got it. Yeah.

Steve: You still got it. What was the what was the cowboy hat for?

Keith: They gave an award to whoever traveled the furthest to get there. So since I came from Tacoma, Washington all the way down to Biloxi, Mississippi Yeah. Yeah. I got I got that.

Steve: Yeah. That was a commute. So, like, Biloxi, I think that was, like, my third trip of the year for 2019. So, like, I remember so we started the podcast in 2018. Right?

Mhmm.

Keith: And I

Steve: told my wife and I was a strategic coach. I was like, alright. Once Once strategic coach is done, I'm not traveling anymore. Right? Because, like, I'm I'm traveling for quarterly events that for my own personal development, but I'm done.

Mhmm. Right? And then Max Maxwell comes on the show in 2018. And he says, hey. I'm doing an event, in Dallas.

We live '19. This is March 2019. I was like, would you wanna speak there? I was like, well, hell yeah. I wanna speak on that.

So get an exception for the wife. Hey. Can I speak in Dallas? Right? And she says yes.

And then after that, it was Houston in September. It was New Orleans, I wanna say in October or December.

Keith: Oh my gosh.

Steve: And it was Biloxi sometime around then as well. Mhmm. Right? It was the second half of the year for sure. And she came with me to Houston.

I was like, yeah. It's Mississippi. She's like, I'm not going to Mississippi. Right? But the hotel was nice.

It was like a little Bellagio.

Keith: The the Bover I think it was the Boveri. Boveri. Yeah.

Steve: Boveri. Right? It was like a little it was like a little Bellagio in Mississippi. And, like, it was crazy because, like, you fly into Mississippi and, like, there's nothing.

Keith: Mhmm. Right?

Steve: And then, like, twenty minutes twenty, thirty minutes from the airport, you got this this little Vegas strip with all these casinos, and everything's nice. I mean, I didn't really go and see all the other casinos.

Keith: Mhmm. It was

Steve: like a nice little strip of Vegas.

Keith: Right there on the water?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Right? The water wasn't so great. Right?

But I remember, you know, gambling prom, spending some time at the tables, right, after after speaking. But what was, for me, I remember I was, I got a chance to speak on sales and, like, I wanna say I spoke for, like, thirty minutes, right, on sales. And now we just held we just held a hosted event. It was two full days.

Keith: Mhmm. Right? Like,

Steve: it's kinda crazy to see, like, you know, this journey for speaking for, like, thirty minutes on stage about sales, and I was, like, two full days. But you were sharing with me that you picked up something that's really helpful for you.

Keith: Oh, absolutely. What was that? That scorcher thing that you you talk about. And, that that was huge. And, you know, you said that one and then the other one, what was that?

You know, you must be saying this for a reason. Right? Just a couple little hooks. Right? Like, we're, like, super powerful, but definitely that scorched earth.

I, and, you know, that's like, hey. Like, you know, when scorched earth is when you would use that when sellers are trying to get multiple offers. Right? Like, they're like, hey, Keith. Hey.

Thanks for coming. You know, just to let you know, I am getting, you know, shopping around trying to just get, you know, a couple offers, and then we're gonna take the best one. Mhmm. And I'm like, oh, Karen, man. That that's awesome.

You have no idea how how cool that is to hear. You have no idea how many people, like, hit me up, and, like, I'm the only person they're getting an offer from. Like, that's cool that you're, like, a smart shopper. I love that. Like, I want you to get the best, you know, price for your house.

Like, that's why I created this company. But, you know, just to make sure, right, that you're actually getting a real offer because, you know, unfortunately, there's these guys that, you know, took a two two day seminar at the Hilton, and now all of a sudden, they're real estate investors and Yeah. You know, but they're, you know, putting out offers that they just can't, you know, actually cash or close on. You know, you look at, you know, these different things in a contract. Right?

Like, you know, what's their earnest money? Right? If it's, you know, couple $100 or something really small and it's refundable, like, they don't have any skin in the game. They're not you know, they've the likelihood of them leaving you out to dry on closing day and not fulfilling is is really high. You know, also there's this thing I guess it's called, like, wholesaling or something where they're not the actual buyer.

Right? Like, and, they're actually gonna, like, shop your deal out to someone else. And, that's if, you know, if they put, like, ads that were assigned or something weird next to their their name, like Mhmm. That's an something else. And, like, any other type of contingency, it could look something as stupid as, like, you know, subject to funding partners approval or something like that.

You know? Next wait. You're not the actual buyer who's this funding partner, and they're not here to actually, like, what? Like but, you know, just there's certain things like that. If there's any contingencies whatsoever, like, just make sure because, you know, I don't want you, you know, being left out to try it.

And, like, you're, you know, your house is gonna go to auction. If they don't actually fulfill or they try to come back and renegotiate, you're screwed. And, you know, again, if you, you know, get another offer and you just want me to look over it and make sure that they're, you know, a straight shooter, like, feel free. Shoot it over.

Steve: How many extra deals do you think you did from that alone?

Keith: Oh my god. Like, I could think of, like, four, like, right off the bat that were, like, huge, where, like, I wasn't even the highest offer at that point too, where they were, like, you know, like, yeah, Keith, this other person came in and offered me, like, $50 more. But, like, they had everything you told me to, like, look out for.

Steve: Mhmm.

Keith: And, like, I just you know, I feel like you're the guy that could actually get this done. And Right. And, yeah. Like, I know I at least got, like, four, like, right like

Steve: Four significant sized deals.

Keith: Yes. Yeah. Good ones. Yeah. Like, the other guys wanted to spend $50 more than me.

That's how good the deal was.

Steve: Yeah. So awesome. You went, traveled a long distance, learned

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: And applied. Absolutely. Right? That's that's that is phenomenal. One thing I'm seeing a lot, right, with ChatGPT and AI, and you hear these guys like, oh, you know, you can have AI write these blog articles for you now.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And so if one guy can do AI blogs and really anyone can do AI blogs, any concerns on your part? Or I don't know. How important is blogging as part of your SEO strategy?

Keith: Not very important at all. Never. I mean, it it it is important, but it's not gonna move. It's not one of those things you focus on in the beginning. Mhmm.

Right? Like, the city pages are that high intent, high quality, like, seller. The blog stuff is more like informational content that, the conversion rate, you know, on a click from, you know, how to sell a house in probate. Although a probate deal is a killer deal, just because someone Googles how to sell a house in probate doesn't mean they're actually an executive or executor. It doesn't mean that they're, you know, ready to sell or that they're even, you know, ready to go.

So, it's not it's not the same quality of traffic. Mhmm. And it's you don't need a pile of blog posts.

Steve: Mhmm.

Keith: You just need a few. Like, I'm talking, like, I've I've had people site blow up from, like, four good quality blog posts. Mhmm. Not not a 100 or 50 or, like, posting one a week, like, for why. Right?

Like, you gotta understand, like, what you're actually writing for and what you're writing about. And then the other big thing is a lot of people will just post stuff willy nilly that actually hurts your site. Mhmm. And I'm talking about, like, posting stuff like, you know, five tricks to sell your house faster in Phoenix. And it's like, I would never post something like that.

And the reason why is because, again, Google doesn't rank websites that rank pages. You already have a page you wanna rank for sell your house fast in Phoenix. That's your Phenix City page. So I'm not going to make another page that's about how to sell your house fast in Phoenix because now you got two pages fighting against each other and they call it content cannibalization or competing content. And then neither of them are going to rank as well as they can or as they could.

They're gonna fight against each other and you're gonna be screwed. Same with, like, you know, posting five different things about selling house and divorce. And then I see a lot of people do a lot of the blog stuff I like on a city level, like how to sell a house and divorce in Phoenix. But, people don't really Google that. And Google doesn't necessarily wanna show that either.

Like Mhmm. Because it's like state level stuff. Right? Like, they're they're googling, like, how to sell a house and divorce in Arizona or who gets the house during divorce in Arizona, or can I sell my house in foreclosure in Arizona? Even if they're in Phoenix, they're not really they might they're not adding Phoenix to it most of the time.

And if you actually Google, like, can I sell a house in foreclosure from Phoenix and look at what Google will actually show in the search results, it's usually state level stuff? It's almost always state level stuff

Steve: Right.

Keith: Or national stuff. Right? Can you sell a house in foreclosure, you know, on a national level, or can you sell a house in foreclosure in Arizona? Yeah. And so creating city pages is just a waste of time.

Steve: Any other major mistakes that people make, do you see?

Keith: Those are those are some of the biggest. Mhmm. ChatGTP can you know, it can be helpful. Right? You can write decent stuff, but, Google doesn't wanna publish and house a lot of that stuff.

Right? Like, everything they put in there, it it costs a lot of money to have all these pages in their index. And so they don't want people publishing thousands of articles a day. Right. Just so that way they could spend more money, like, actually putting the stuff in the index.

And, you know, it's an algorithm could spot algorithm written content. Mhmm. If you're gonna do, like, chat, CTV stuff, you have to still do a ton of, like, editing to make it not look like that.

Steve: So I guess, really, if someone's competing against you, you want them to have the AI content.

Keith: Yeah. Absolutely.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Keith: Go do it. Gotcha.

Steve: Okay. So let's see here. We talked about, yeah, SEO, Phoenix, cheapest. Yeah. SEO is the only lead source that goes down cost per lead over time.

You wanna talk about that real quick or reiterate that point?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, like, you know, like, in the beginning, let's just say you spend, I don't know, like, $5 to dial in your site and within a fir and that was it, and you didn't spend any more money and you get, like, you know, five leads in the first, like, two or three months or something. Right?

Like, five leads and three months. Now your cost per lead is basically a thousand dollars a lead. Right? But then as you keep on getting more, you're caught and, you know, the cost per lead continues to go down.

Steve: Right.

Keith: I've had, like, one of my one of my guys has been around for a little bit. Like, he was spending, like, $3,000 a month. Pretty aggressive to try to, like, outrank everyone else in his market. And then I hit him up, like, nine months ago. I'm like, man, dude, you're crushing it.

Like, I can't get this site any higher. Right? Like, you're just unless you wanna expand and go into more markets, add more, you know, states or something, like, you're crushing it. You don't need to keep on getting a Mac link. So I'm like, we could dial it down to, like, $500 a month.

He's like, well, let's do a thousand bucks a month just to be safe. And but, like, he's getting 60 leads a month right now on a site. He's, you know and, you know, at that price, like, it's if you actually break all of his spend down, like, let's just say he spent, like, $60,000 all in on his website, like, his cost per lead is, like, $60 a lead. Yeah. Like, with, like and that's that's over exaggerating how much he's actually spent and under exaggerating the amount of actual leads if I look like on a you know, because I can't see who's actually just calling him in.

Mhmm. And so yeah. Like Yeah.

Steve: I I don't think there's a lot of people that would be upset with under a $100 a lead.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. But now, like, if you look at, like, you know, he's doing $9.09 $9.09 a month and getting 60 plus leads. That's $15 a lead.

Steve: Right? Basically, anyone that's spending money on marketing really needs an ad in SEO strategy is what I'm hearing.

Keith: Like a lot of things in life, a year from now, you wish you

Steve: started today. Yeah. Well, Bateman said the same thing, like, two years ago. Right. Everyone knows being attention.

Should've started two years ago.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: But was it the best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago? The second best time is today.

Keith: Is now. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Alright. So I'm gonna have another selfish request. Right?

Keith: Yep.

Steve: So I bought closemoresales.com.

Keith: Right? Closemore sales?

Steve: Yeah. Okay. Alright. I'm hanging my hat. Like, this is it.

I'm the sales guy. Mhmm.

Keith: So

Steve: if I wanna do SEO for that, is there any different strategy than what we talked about as far as, like, the Phoenix location or the location pages, or is it the same exact thing?

Keith: Yeah. You probably don't need I'd have to look a little bit more in that industry. I don't think you'd probably need those city pages, like, as much. You'd you'd probably be doing more of that informational content for different is it just sales for real estate? Is it, you know, or like I

Steve: mean, our core is still real estate, but we're trying to branch out to other industries. Yeah. So then ticket, solar, roofing.

Keith: Exactly. So having a page for all of that. Mhmm. Solar, you know, negotiate solar negotiating training Mhmm. You know, all that kind of stuff.

Yeah. So you basically just create a page for all those different niches.

Steve: Gotcha.

Keith: And then get some links on them, get some of the home page.

Steve: Mhmm.

Keith: Is that gonna be your company name? The URL?

Steve: I mean, our company is still Disruptors, but our brand is closed more sales.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've

Steve: Yeah. We're we're we're playing with two different taglines. Right? Like, one is, like, people pay me to close more sales.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: It's one tagline. The other one is we don't sell. We get people to sell themselves.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: The other tagline. Neither which like, that one doesn't include the closer sales, but

Keith: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Trying to figure out which tagline, like, speaks to the audience more. Right? When they read it, it's like, oh my god. That's what I need.

Keith: Right. Yeah. Yeah. My big thing a lot of people go and get URLs for those keywords. They're not necessarily all that important like they probably were, like, back in the day.

And, I just don't like when people go and get, like, you know, we buy houses, fast Oklahoma City, but then they're and that's but then their brand name is something completely different. And so there's kind of a disconnect between your URL and your brand, and then people get confused and you lose out on, like, that brand equity, that brand juice that you're really because, again, Google's whole job for the best and most complete answer, but from a really good credible company. Mhmm. And, getting those brand searches is really important. Mhmm.

And if you're already getting brand searches for, like, disruptors going and, like, trying to create another one, which is now gonna split the amount of brand searches you actually get

Steve: Mhmm.

Keith: Kinda water it down when you could just piggyback off, you know, your main Disruptors. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: Yeah. No. This is that constant battle we got back and forth. Right? Confusing the audience.

Right? Yeah.

Keith: Exact yeah. Yeah. So

Steve: we're thinking it's just the we still have the company name and then close my sales would be, like, the marketing. Yeah. You know? But Exactly. We'll we'll see.

Okay. So, so thinking back oh, and if someone wanna so we talked about, like like, if this makes sense, like, totally makes sense to do what the SEO component. So, how can someone find out more about you?

Keith: SEO means realestateinvestors.com. I'm happy to jump on a free phone call with anyone, break down their site, their competition, kinda, tell them what they should do, whether it's hire me or, you know, I'll tell them exactly what they could do. Mhmm. And we, Andy and I, we do a lot of free stuff too in our Facebook group. We have a free Facebook group called SEO means real estate investors where literally yeah.

I just do stuff for people that have more money than they have time, but there's a ton of people in our group that have done it all on their own and closing deals and super pumped.

Steve: So Yeah. I was on your website earlier, and, I mean, I was looking at it, it's like, that's an unreasonably good price.

Keith: Oh, for some of those packages and stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Well, those are like yeah. So those are like backlink packages if you're like, hey.

Because a lot of people could do their on page stuff on their own. Like, they follow you know, there's, you know, there's single word densities, headings, images, alt text, da da da. They could do that, but then it's that grind is those backlinks. Right? So you can you know, at that price we're basically, like, $50 backlinks.

But it could take you a lot more, you know, depending on what your time is worth to get one backlink from our big Right. You know, like, hundreds of dollars and, yeah, a pain in the butt. So Yeah. Like I said very competitively priced, and they're powerful. And, yeah, we're getting a lot of people really killer results.

Steve: Yeah. So I could, if I signed up with you, be ranking in Phoenix in, like, six months.

Keith: I'll get you leads within the first, like, three months for sure. As far as, like, the a lot of people think the goal is to, quote, unquote, like, rank number one for something. Mhmm. That's not the goal. I mean, I ranked number one for, like, sell my house fast Tacoma, which, you know, again, Tacoma is not a huge city.

It's, like, a quarter million. But, like, in the last three months, I've gotten 12 clicks from that site or from that one phrase. That's like one lead. Right? That's like so a lot of people, they they they might even do SEO and they get number one for like a phrase and they think that's the end of everything.

And then they're not getting the leads they want and they're like, oh, this sucks. It doesn't actually work. And I'm like, no. You wanna get on the map for a ton of stuff. And so that's where having the single word density, having a bigger page than other people, being able to show up for those thousands of things that people search.

That's the you know, for me, the goal for, you know, my clients is get more leads. Right? And so, like, I got guys that, you know, aren't number one for anything, but they're getting ten, twelve, you know, fifteen, thirty leads a month right now, and they're, like, they're super pumped.

Steve: Do you do retargeting from those SEO leads?

Keith: I don't personally, but I think people should. I mean, if you're if you're doing any paid marketing whatsoever, like, I wouldn't do pay per click without having retargeting on. Alright. You're just leaving a lot of money on the table.

Steve: Yeah. I just imagine, like, because the the even the retargeting is pretty cheap, relatively speaking.

Keith: Oh, yeah. I know. Facebook ads in general, like Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So lots of change since you got in the business in 2018. You got this evolution. So what does your business what does your life look like today, versus when you first started?

Keith: Well, now, like, I actually I I'm doing SEO full time for people. That's what I so all my website or all my website leads that I that I get, they go off to a buddy of mine. We partner together. Like, he closes all the deals, and we and we just JV everything. Mhmm.

So I haven't talked to a seller in, like, a year and a half. I'm not really interested in, you know, doing a ton of single family or, like, you know, flips or wholesales at the moment. I still love real estate. Mine and my wife's goal is to buy a mobile home park a year. So we actually I created a mobile home park site recently.

Mhmm. Got, like, nine leads on it last month, which is actually I was actually really pumped. So there's a lot of other asset class too, like, you know, condos, land, mobile homes, commercial property is a really good one that people aren't going after. It's high vol you know, lot of good opportunities out there. But, yeah.

So I do SEO for people full time, and I I live in South Texas. And

Steve: so you want to buy a mobile home park a year?

Keith: That's our goal.

Steve: Yeah. Why mobile home parks?

Keith: Well, it's more my my wife's goal. Their family, they own a bunch, and they they like, you know, it's definitely high high cash, you know. Yeah. Good ROI.

Steve: And Fantastic ROI. Yeah. Not so much appreciation from my understanding. No. No.

But the cash flow is great.

Keith: Exactly. It's more for the, yeah, the the recurring revenue. And the

Steve: land goes up eventually. Eventually, when it when when the city expands to it Mhmm. Then the land's really valuable.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: So what do you love most about SEO?

Keith: Man, I love that anyone could do it. I love that it's it is something that you could get in without a lot of money. And, like, you know, I'm a big I root for the underdog. I love helping people out, especially the guys that don't have, you know, a crapload of money every month. Right?

Like, like, you know, there's this guy here that he's got a very small budget. Right? $500 a month. But he's already getting leads and he's like, you know, like, I I love that. I love that, you know, people can get in and get hot leads without, you know, that cold calling or the texting or that other stuff that's just a a grind.

Steve: You know, it's, only reason why I got so hard into the direct market or, paid marketing

Keith: Mhmm. Because

Steve: they got crushed by SEO.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, it it took a pretty big toll. I Right?

Keith: I could see that. Yeah.

Steve: So but looks like looking back, I shoulda just got back on the horse. Yeah. Absolutely. So it's unfortunate. I mean, there were a lot of good things came from learning paid marketing.

But

Keith: Mhmm.

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So visit wholesale2024.com to learn more so that you'll never have another deal blow up. What would you do if money was object?

Keith: With my life? Mhmm. Same thing I'm doing now. Money is yeah. Yeah.

I I love my life. I've never been happier.

Steve: More SEO or more, like, more family stuff, more mobile homes? What's

Keith: I definitely like family stuff. I love spending time with my family and my wife. Yeah. Hanging out on the the lake, the river. Just doing things for I but I love helping people.

Mhmm. Like, it's like I got, like, a helper's high. Yeah. So it's kinda like, I don't know, selfish selflessness or something. Like and so if I didn't have anyone to help, I'd kinda be like, what's the point?

Steve: Be depressed.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. But I I so, like yeah. I love helping people with their SEO and marketing. And, you know, I'll talk to you about all kinds of different stuff other than, you know, I got other guys that, you know, like, what are you doing right now?

And, again, I'm not I'm not an expert in all things, you know, marketing, but I've done, you know, enough things wrong. I know what to do right. And if I could, you know, like, you're not doing bandit signs or, you know, if you have $0, like, here, go post in Facebook groups. Here's exactly what I would do. Here's a Craigslist ad you go post for free or $5 in the, you know, the thing, like, you could still close deals from that.

And here's exactly what I would do for Bandit Sign. Like Yeah. Like, you're gonna close your first deal or a deal to get money in your pocket, and then you go and reinvest it in that paid stuff or

Steve: You just wanna help people.

Keith: Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: What's your, what's your epic life goal?

Keith: Oh, man. I don't know. It's crazy. I I feel like I I grew up in a trailer park and, like, like yeah. I already feel like I'm living it.

So Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Life's good, though.

Steve: So talk about that. So you say you grew up in a trailer park in in Washington? Mhmm. Okay. What was that like?

Keith: It's depressing. No. I mean yeah. It was nuts. Mhmm.

It was nuts. So like I said, I I I got emancipated when I was 16, so, like, family life wasn't all that cool. Mhmm. I convinced a judge to let me go and do my own thing. I moved in with my uncle.

Steve: How does that work? Because, like, you only I don't know how you're a little bit younger being I remember, like, like, Gary Coleman. Right? Like, different strokes. Like, he was one of those, like, Hollywood kids, like, divorce his parents.

Keith: Oh, yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, how does that even work?

Keith: Yeah. I told a judge that I felt like I could take better care of myself than my fan and then my parents could. And and she said, hey. I'm not gonna emancipate anyone on this other GED and, like, da da da. And so, like, I went and got my GED.

I took it, all the tests in one day, which I guess a lot of people go and take them, like, you know, if they did it on Wednesdays, and and I showed up on Wednesday morning, I took I I was thinking, like, two or three tests. You know, you have to take, like, five or six. I forget. And, I just end up taking them all. And, like, in that same day, I'm like, oh, I just keep knocking them out.

And, I end up scoring, like, the 96 of anyone my age that ever taken a GED in Washington, whatever. And then came back. The judge said, okay. They emancipated me. And,

Steve: So 16 years old. I wanna get emancipated. Getting a GED. And, like, that week you just took your GED?

Keith: I had to wait. So I was 15 then. I think it was, like, I don't know, November or something when that happened. Mhmm. But I had to wait till my, you know, my sixteenth birthday to be able to do that, and that was February 9.

And I think I got back in front of the judge in, like, March 16 or something, and then I, like, left my parents' house, like,

Steve: a week later. Gotcha. Now you mentioned, we were talking before the show, that your brother had a chance to work with Stephen Curry.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. He, he became a real estate agent in Menlo Park. Mhmm. And so he yeah.

I mean, Menlo Park is, like, super affluent. Right? Like, tear down houses, like, little tiny, you know, 2,000 square foot lots are going for over a mill. Right. But, yeah, he sold, him and his boss, like, sold the house to Steph Curry, like Right.

And then, like, I guess, a year later, he wanted to, like, move and so then he sold it. And I think about it. I well, I probably shouldn't say prices, but, yeah, you know, couple million more than me and just, break even on it.

Steve: But So having emancipate yourself from your parents, you still have a good relationship with your brother?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Him. For

Steve: sure. Gotcha. What is your biggest struggle today?

Keith: Oh, man. I think I'm still learning how to be a a really good leader. Mhmm. Right? Like, I'm really good at holding myself accountable.

Like, you know, I can wake up and and grind and work, but then, like, you know, getting other people, you know, kinda getting the best out of everyone else around me. Like, people say I'm a great boss, but I'm like, I know I could lead you better. Yeah. So that's what I'm still working on is is being a better leader.

Steve: Do you know what your personality, profile is, whether DISC or PI or anything like that?

Keith: I I forget. Okay.

Steve: Yeah. I'm guessing you're probably a pretty high s because you wanna help people. Yeah. And the challenge of being a high s because you wanna help people, because I can kinda see this in myself as well, is that we have a really hard time holding people accountable.

Keith: Mhmm. And

Steve: we also have a really hard time inspiring people. Yeah. Right? It's like, hey. You said you wanna be successful?

Go be successful. Right? And, like, if you get stuck, let me know. I'll help you.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? But this whole deal is like, hey. You need to go do a, b, and c, and let me know when you're done. Right? And coming back, hey, Keith, you said you're gonna do a, b, and c.

A, b, and c is not done. What's going on? Like, I hate that conversation.

Keith: Me too.

Steve: So when you're saying that your biggest struggle is being a better leader, I can totally get where you're coming from. So what are you doing to become a better leader?

Keith: Oh my gosh. You know, definitely, you know, podcast, some, you know, books and stuff. Yeah. One of the best things I did, though, was actually kinda get myself out of that leader. Because I I was still managing, like, eight to 10, like, you know, employees in the SEOs, and, like, on, you know, the that.

And, I hired a manager, and she's just been crushing it. She loves that. She has no problem holding people accountable and making sure stuff's done on time and saying, hey. It's not what, you know, you said and da da da. And she just does all that.

And then I could focus on, you know, clients and that kind of stuff, which is what, again, you know, that energy audit, like, doing the stuff that actually kinda, you know, makes me wanna wake up in the morning.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, I have several people in our organization now who are at that profile. They're like, yeah. Hey. I understand the story.

But, like, where are we on this? Right. Right? You have you mean, you you work pretty closely with Trevor, I imagine. Yeah.

Keith: Yeah. We, you know, we're good buddies. Like, I I met him a long time ago, and, I've actually I've done some consulting for Carrot and stuff.

Steve: I would argue he's one of the best leaders I've met. Absolutely. Yeah. So if you're struggling with leadership, I would talk to that guy more often.

Keith: I know. Right? I know.

Steve: Yeah. So we that we we haven't talked a bunch. But whenever we do, we're always talking about

Keith: entrepreneurship or leadership.

Steve: Those are the two things I could talk about all day. He could talk about all day.

Keith: Right.

Steve: Right? And so maybe, you should go talk to him some more. Absolutely. What is your superpower?

Keith: Oh my god.

Steve: So your wife is in the other room.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: If I asked her to come out here and ask her what your superpower was, what would she say?

Keith: It's a good question. Yeah. Probably, I mean, a lot of kindness, compassion Mhmm. Definitely, again, got a soft spot for the underdog Yeah. And, wanna wanna help people.

Steve: That was your wholesale company name?

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Kind House Buyers.

Steve: Yeah. What is your biggest

Keith: regret? Probably that I didn't get into real estate sooner. That's that's probably it. How old are you? 36 now.

Steve: 36. You started, in '18? Just six years ago.

Keith: No. No. I started oh, yeah. 2018. Not when I was 18.

Yeah. Yeah. So I got emancipated when I was 16. I don't tell a lot of people this, but I, I'm living with my uncles who grew medical marijuana for a living. Mhmm.

And I didn't really have a lot of prospects, so I learned how to grow weed. And I grew weed for a long time. Really good at it. You know, medical and this and that, but, I I didn't like it. Like, not that I didn't like it.

Like, I was super good at it.

Steve: You're so passionate about it.

Keith: Yeah. And I, you know, I still, like, I didn't feel good inside, like, you know, that I was, you know, grew weed. So I wanted to get out of it as soon as possible, but it it wasn't like, like, how many like, I was making decent money for, like, you know, a kid with a GED from South Auburn. Like, they grew up in a trailer park. Like, where or, you know, what am I gonna do that could replace that kind of income?

Like, I like, at that point now, I got a mortgage, a house. Like like, I couldn't even I wasn't really employable. I could go and get a, you know, a job for $20 an hour. And what is that like? I don't know.

Like, less than less less than $3 a month. I think yeah. Mhmm. Like, not even. I think after taxes and everything, I think it's, like, $1,600 a month or something.

Like, my mortgage is 11. Like, what am I gonna do with it? Like and so actually, switching and getting into something, you know, getting into real estate, honestly, was

Steve: How much are we making growing weed?

Keith: Anywhere from, like, 10 and $10 a month.

Steve: $10 a month?

Keith: Yeah. Plus. The the

Steve: pretty hard to, like, oh, I'm too good for this money. I'm gonna go do something else.

Keith: Exactly. Exactly. But I, like, I was able to do it too with, like, just a few hours. So, you know, so I would, but I kept on telling myself, like, you know, I'm gonna go I need to go back to school. I need to.

So, like, I would I'd wake up in the early morning, 4AM, mess with my plants till, like, five, six, and then go to school. And I and, you know, when I went back to school, we had to go to the community college, and, it took me, like, over a year just to do the prereqs or to get caught up to college level. Right? They take the assessment test, and I'm like, you know, basically, you know, I had to take, like, four writing and English classes just to get up to, like, that 100 level, you know, like, over a year of those. And then, you know, another two years at the community college and then transferred to the University of Washington, and that was another two years.

So I'm basically, like, growing weed and doing this for, like, over five years, and getting, like, you know, really good grades and just working my butt off. I was not the smartest, but I knew I could just outwork anyone.

Steve: Yeah. We don't have a lot of people that on the show that I'm aware of that grew weed to pay their way through college.

Keith: Yeah. I know a

Steve: lot of people that sold weed to pay their way through college. Yeah. But I grew it.

Keith: Well, I mean, if you want higher margins, you gotta grow it. You wanna be the middleman. You gotta source it. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Well, these guys were were middlemen, but they were not doing it legally. So

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: Whole different story.

Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: And then, what book have you gifted more than any other?

Keith: What book? Mhmm. Say that again. What book what?

Steve: Have you gifted more than any other?

Keith: Oh my god. Never split the difference. Mhmm. And honestly so, like, I I've gifted, like, my Audible login to a ton of people. I swear I'm, like, dyslexic or I can't read and, like, actually, like, sit there and, like, pay attention.

I know I have ADD, but I've listened. And that was one of the biggest things when I first started school. I I the first class had me, like, read a book, and I'm like, oh my god. And I I found it on Audible, and this is back in 2011. And I'm like, oh, this is awesome.

So I listened to it, and, and then I just kept on, like, listening. And then I listened to a book like Malcolm Gladwell, Outliers. And I'm like, this is an amazing book. Why haven't I listen to more books? Like, this is like, screw listening to music.

Like, I so I literally listen to, like, over 500 books. And I just keep on adding to my library, and I've passed my audible account to I think it says, like, you know, Keith's, you know, Audible device number 75 now. Like, there's so many people that have my Audible login. So I basically just gift all of that to everyone. I got a ton of different books and all kinds of different stuff.

Steve: I'm curious, like, at what point is Amazon gonna be like, this is getting out of hand.

Keith: I know. Right?

Steve: Because you're not the only one. Right? There's a lot I know a lot of other people that are the same way.

Keith: Yeah.

Steve: Where they just share. And I I remember, like, one friend is like, yeah. Like, we're in a mastermind. And he gave us the his his audible log is like five different guys at the mastermind. I was like, this is crazy.

And he looked at it. He's like, if there are any orders Yeah. On Amazon I know. I will find you.

Keith: Right. Right? Yeah.

Steve: So that's the that's the fear. I know. For sharing the login. But that's cool. So, never split the difference.

It makes total sense. Alright. So, I want you to think about some last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners with.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: I, just share a couple of things. Guys, if you got value today, again, please subscribe. Do not keep us a secret. Keith and I, we just talked about how he generates over a million dollars worth of traffic every single month. Right?

Like, I think there's a lot of value here. You guys could be if you're listening, you can go do this tomorrow and start ranking fairly quickly. Right? So, what thoughts would you like to leave all the listeners with?

Keith: I mean, definitely again, like a lot of things in life, a year from now, you wish you started today. Mhmm. Just get it going. It's, yeah. You won't regret it.

Steve: Well, I mean, building out your website is no different than buying real estate. Like, you develop it. Mhmm. And then it's an asset. Exactly.

It stays an asset.

Keith: Exactly.

Steve: Yeah. If someone wants to get a hold of you, how can they best get a hold of you?

Keith: Facebook, Keith Sant, Instagram. You can call me. (253) 293-9789.

Steve: Man, you're gonna put yourself out there. You're gonna be really busy Yeah.

Keith: For the

Steve: next few months.

Keith: You'd be surprised how many people don't call. Like, I I'll help people. Like, even if you want my help, I'll help you.

Steve: Yeah. That's awesome. You're very, very kind heart. And then SEO meets realestateinvestors.com.

Keith: Mhmm.

Steve: Perfect. Thanks so much.

Keith: Appreciate it. Thanks, David.

Steve: Thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you guys next time.

Keith: Shout out to Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.