How He Retired His Mom At 28 Flipping Real Estate

Tommy Harr: Man, I had no money. Moved back in with my parents. I I need money. Wholesaling is the answer to this problem. Is if you put your head down for five to seven years and work your ass off Right.

It is gonna happen. Like, if you take the consistent action, it's a 100% gonna happen. And once you get kicked, you cannot quit because Yeah. That's life.

Steve Trang: Everybody, thank you for joining us for today's episode of real estate disruptors. So we have Tommy Harr with Real Side Real Estate Community. And Tommy flew in from Columbus, Ohio to talk about how he retired his mom at 20 years old at flipping real estate. Guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information

Steve: on the show alone is enough to help

Steve: you become millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you take consistent action, you'll become one. And, guys, if you get value today, please hit that subscribe button. That way, we can accomplish our goals of creating more millionaires. You ready?

Yes, sir. Alright. So your journey started a little bit differently. Yep. So what was your life like before you got into flipping and wholesaling?

Tommy: So, pretty middle class. My dad is a home inspector. My mom was a teacher. And, when I graduated college, I always told my dad I'd be his right hand man. So one of five kids, the oldest boy, I I became a home inspector.

Steve: So inspector.

Tommy: Right out

Steve: of college. Right

Tommy: out of college. Didn't think of anything else. And then growing up, he also had a property preservation business. So you know what that is for but a lot of people may not know. Yeah.

When the banks were foreclosing o seven, o eight, o nine to maybe 2012, we were trashing out houses, boarding up houses, changing the locks, mowing lawns. So from the time I was 12 to 18, that was the business I was in. So that's really the the the stuff I saw.

Steve: So you got to be involved in the foreclosures? Heavily. Okay. So you graduated college when?

Tommy: 2017.

Steve: 2017. And then, you started you said when was it? 12?

Tommy: We're at 12, 13 years old. Yeah.

Steve: But what I'm sorry. What was the year you got into, trash now houses?

Tommy: That was probably o nine.

Steve: O nine. Yeah. 2010. So, like, you were knee deep Yeah. As a kid.

In trash. In trash. Yeah. What was the one of the craziest things you saw?

Tommy: I get that question a lot. It's great. I always go back to the story that I mean, I would walk through a house. So when you walk through houses now that you're older and you're in this stuff, but every square inch of this house was filled with just giant dog poop. And you had to, like, tiptoe around.

I'm like, what is going on? Yeah. That was probably the craziest one.

Steve: Did you guys ever rekey the wrong house?

Tommy: Probably, yes. We've inspected four wrong houses before. Like, we finished and we're like, oh my god. That was the wrong house. So we yeah.

That's happened.

Steve: Because, that was like a like a huge situation in Phoenix, right, during the REO craze. Phoenix was one of the leaders, I guess, in foreclosures. And, yeah, someone's house got totally, like, trashed out. And they came home, and they're like

Tommy: And everything's thrown away. Yeah. Oh my god. It was

Steve: just the wrong house.

Tommy: That's insane.

Steve: Yeah. So proper reservation, that was your dad's business. Yep. Not his main business, but that was his other business.

Tommy: Yep. So that was his side hustle that turned into a main business. Mhmm. So the inspection was kinda whenever he got calls, it wasn't ever his main gig.

Steve: Okay. So private preservation supersede or it it went ahead. It did. It did. So you're tracking on houses, but you still decided to go to college.

Tommy: Yeah. Why? Yeah. I was a soccer player. So and my mom was a teacher.

So grew up. My mom's always like, hey. You gotta go to college. You gotta college. You never was not an option to go to college.

Okay? Gotcha. So, I went to college, studied finance and entrepreneurship, so I got double major. Just kinda I like money, and I knew I was gonna go work with my dad, so I had to get something.

Steve: Right.

Tommy: So I played soccer at University of Dayton, so I really got a scholarship, playing soccer.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. I played soccer at Dayton.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: Graduate Graduate. And just go straight to working for your dad.

Tommy: Straight to working for my dad immediately.

Steve: And how long did you do that?

Tommy: So I I inspected houses for probably five years.

Steve: Five years. Yep. Okay. And then why'd you switch?

Tommy: So, during that time so even right before I graduated college, my uncle called me. He goes, Tom, do you wanna invest in real estate? And it's funny how everything comes together. I was like, no. I don't even know what that is.

I'm going to work for with my dad. Mhmm. So we started doing home inspections. And during that time, this is 2017, going to 2018, Columbus started to boom like many other areas. So the areas that we used to trash out, change locks, board them up, those those areas were transitioning, people were flipping, and we did a ton of hard money draw inspections.

So I was meeting guys, like, you know, I'm Terry Summers, Austin Rutherford, those people that were crushing in Columbus. I'm seeing the lifestyle they're living. I'm seeing the money they're making. I'm making $75 on a draw inspection. I'm like, this is bullshit.

I need to go learn what these guys know. You know?

Steve: Right.

Tommy: So,

Steve: So you got to know them?

Tommy: I got to know them.

Steve: That's cool.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. So then, I mean, it just kinda brought back the conversation I had with my uncle. I said, hey. Let's revisit that conversation we had, but do you wanna do it in Columbus?

I'm not moving to Chicago. It's not what I wanna do. I was

Steve: gonna flip in Chicago.

Tommy: He wanted me to move to Chicago with him. Yes. And I was like, can't do it, but let's revisit this because he's from Columbus, and he moved to Chicago when he was older. So we ended up partnering up and started to learn about it. He put me out of bigger pockets, rich dad, poor dad, all of these things that really changed my life.

Mhmm. But that first deal, changed my life in, one way, shape, or form you'll say.

Steve: So yeah, so let's talk about your first

Tommy: Yeah. Deal. Alright. So about six months in, so everything kinda went back to the inspection. So I was meeting the I was going to these, hard money draws.

I met my a contractor through there who seemed like he was doing good work. He was like, hey. If you ever if I ever have a house that I can find for you, do you wanna do you wanna do it? And maybe you're a contractor. So he put me onto this house.

Really nice area of Columbus. You guys are listening to this. You know Columbus Bexley. Mhmm. Six bedroom, five bathroom, 4,000 square foot house, rich area, a class downtown.

We bought it for $4.25. Eighteen months later, we ended up selling it for $7.10. We put about $2.50 into the rehab, doubled our timelines, ended up losing a $100 for withholding costs and just overshooting ARV. We should I mean, we just did so much wrong. I lived in that house.

So, I mean, I it was either live in that house while we flipped it Mhmm. Or live in my parents' basement. So me being 23, I wanted to be able to think I was cool. I wanna put real estate investor in my Instagram bio. I I was going room to room with one of my buddies and fixing it up as I was managing the contractors and all that stuff.

Let not even bed frames, just mattresses in the corners of the master, playing Fortnite, being kids still Yeah. While I was doing this, but learned a lot of good lessons.

Steve: How are you making your mortgage your how money payments?

Tommy: So my uncle was the financing partner. So he was the financing partner, and we were going at it together.

Steve: So he came with the down payment?

Tommy: Yep. Yep. And he put a HELOC he had a HELOC on his house.

Steve: On his house? Mhmm.

Tommy: Gotcha. Yeah. So we're he was servicing the debt out. We were doing the construction. He would pop in every three to six months.

Steve: Writing you. It was like, Tommy.

Tommy: He was towards the end. Yeah. The the the relationship got sour, and I I was like, man, like, I I did a lot wrong. We both did a lot wrong. So, I I definitely, have have expressed how how sorry I was for for that whole situation.

We just bit off more than we can chew. You know? I mean, we thought ARV was I mean,

Steve: you went straight to the big house. You didn't you didn't do something simple. No. You went you went big.

Tommy: No. We went big. And I didn't realize that was big at the time. I thought we were just flipping a house Mhmm. Because the there was on a main stretch.

I mean, comps one street over pocketed into a neighborhood where $85,900 into the millions. We're like, this thing's gonna sell for $8.50 all day Mhmm. And ended up not selling for $8.50, and we, we we caught the bad end of it.

Steve: Gotcha. So, yeah, at the end of the day, you lost how much? About a $100. So how's the relationship we don't go right now?

Tommy: It's better. So, I mean, we don't really talk as much, but

Steve: You guys close in age?

Tommy: He's probably in mid forties. Probably, he's probably 45.

Steve: Okay.

Tommy: So he we don't really talk much. He has moved to Abu Dhabi, actually. He's a sales guy. He's in finance. He does pretty well for himself, but, it definitely made things weird for a little bit.

You know? I mean, there's a lot of stories in between there. My mom was supposed to sell the house. She was a teacher for thirty years. I was like, mom, get your real estate license.

You'll sell it. He ended up at the end telling her no, went with another person. It just got, like, the whole family situation got a little hairy there.

Steve: Oh, so this is your mom's side, not your dad's side?

Tommy: This is my mom's younger brother. Okay.

Steve: I assumed his dad's side because he was already in real estate. No. No. No. The other side?

No. Gotcha. Okay. So then it was, like, even fifty fifty, like, literally $50.50 on a loss? Yep.

Gotcha. How did you handle that?

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Tommy: Not great. I moved back in with my parents, went back into the basement. I had no money again. So, I mean Did

Steve: you have 50 k? And then you did really.

Tommy: I've I've paid him over time, and I've offered to pay him more. Mhmm. But he just never really was like he was like, yeah. Let's just cut the losses. You know?

Mhmm. So moved back in with my parents, and just I was like, okay. I I over that last sixteen months, I never stopped educating myself. So I was like, okay. I know this can't be it.

I listened to I was still inspecting every day. And as a home inspector, you're driving around all day. All

Steve: the time.

Tommy: I was listening to BiggerPockets every single day.

Steve: You're listening to learning. Podcast is is the problem.

Tommy: Exactly. So, I I was just learning about everything. Mhmm. So wholesaling kept coming up. It was like wholesale wholesale.

And I was like, okay. I'm young. I'm broke. I I need money. Wholesaling is the answer to this problem.

Right. So I send my last $8,800 of my postcard into postcards, ended up getting three calls on that and got my next deal.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And this one was a much smarter deal. It was pinpointed in a better area. Three bed, one bath, 1,100 square foot. We bought it for I bought it for 57,000. I wanted to wholesale it.

So I put it in contract and took it to some meetups around town.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: Nobody wanted it. So there was a dealmakers meetup. I presented the deal. I'm young. I mean, I felt like it was a deal and nobody wanted it.

I mean, there's guys like, you know, like, RJ Papino was in there. They're like, nobody wanted the deal. I was like, why in the world? What what what is wrong? So I was like, I'm gonna have to buy it.

So I called everybody in my phone. A family friend that lived up the road who's been a realtor her whole life was like, let's flip it. I'll finance it, but we're going 50 fit you're you're you're splitting half the profits with me.

Steve: And I

Tommy: was like, done. Let's do it. Mhmm. So I ended up making $50 on that, split it both ways, and that was my first success. So about twenty four months into wanting to be a real estate investor, I finally, made some money.

Steve: So since you did so well on it looking back, like, why did everyone else turn it down?

Tommy: I don't know. I I honestly have no idea. I think ARV at the time was, like, $1.10. Mhmm. And maybe you got lucky selling it for $1.30.

But it was a easy deal. It would've been a home run rental property.

Steve: Yeah. Because I'm just thinking, like, maybe because in here, three one, it's not it's not sexy. Right? Like, we're gonna have to add a bathroom or something. Yep.

Then Columbus is three one like normal. Yeah. So it wasn't it wasn't because it was a three one.

Tommy: Not at all. I think I was marketing for, like, $72, so I wasn't trying to make, like, a ton, and needed maybe because I did a lot of the work myself. I mean, I was painting it. I sanded down the floors. I did the cabinets.

I did a lot of the the grunt labor in that house. But, I mean, still, it's a $30 rehab in our numbers today. Right. So maybe it didn't pencil at 70 if the air view was, like, one fifteen. Not a ton, but we ended up, making out on it pretty well.

Steve: So a lot of people quit

Tommy: Yeah. Before they get a deal. Yep.

Steve: Right? Like, they go in, they do this you know, they do the mailers, they do cold call. Like, I'm doing 10 calls a day. I don't know why I'm not doing a deal. I'm not getting deals.

Right? They quit. Yeah. You got punched in the mouth of the haymaker. Yeah.

How did you keep going?

Tommy: Yeah. So for me, it was I mean, if you if you quit, you're done. Right? And I was listening to podcasts every day of people that were successful. Mhmm.

And then, I mean, you start going to real estate events, you start meeting these people, and you realize, like, the the smartest people aren't always the ones winning. Right? It's usually the people that are kinda dumb enough to keep going and and learning. So maybe I was just dumb enough to be like, okay. I I can do this.

Mhmm. And I just heard so many success stories that I was like, okay. I'm I have to continue this. So

Steve: you had the conviction. Yeah. Like, you had enough proof. Like, this is real. Yeah.

It's not like you're only seeing on social media. Like, you're actually meeting Terry. You're gonna meet Austin. Yeah.

Tommy: Who was

Steve: one of the biggest influence you had early in your career?

Tommy: I would say Terry and Austin, because I was in their market. I mean, for those that don't know Terry, I mean, he owns, like, 350 single family houses. Mhmm. And we were doing hard money draws for Lima One Capital back in the day. And I would swipe in my app, and he would be buying 10 houses at a time.

Mhmm.

Steve: And I'm

Tommy: an inspector. I'm still trying to learn, Like, what in the what do these guys know that I don't know? This has gotta be real.

Steve: Oh, yeah. Because you're not just seeing it at the meet ups, but you're actually

Tommy: seeing the houses too.

Steve: Processing Yeah. The payments.

Tommy: I'm seeing the houses. I'm seeing the actual, like, draw like, their their scope of work with the drawers, and I'm I'm the one telling the bank to to give them the money. Yeah. I'm like, okay. This is real.

And I finally got tear in the backyard of a house, and he's just like, keep hustling. Peep your nose down. I mean, how he is. And and it's true. Just kinda keep your head down, nose down.

It's not always sexy Mhmm. But just keep at it.

Steve: Okay. So then after that first one that made money

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: So you use your first two are flips. Yep. When you lost a hundred, second when you split Yep. 50. What What happened after that?

Tommy: So I used that $25. I was still in my parents' basement. Went into contract right before that flip sold Mhmm. On a duplex. So kinda doing the whole young person figure it out.

So I house hacked. Mhmm. So I bought a duplex for $1.85, but 6 $6,500 down, use the rest of that cash to do the windows, the roof, the siding.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: I laid floors. I painted and then rented all my bedrooms out. The other the other unit was already rented for 800. My payment was $15.82. And so I chopped my payment in half, and I was like, okay.

I don't wanna make this payment. So I rented out all three of my bedrooms for $4.50, $4.50, and 400.

Steve: So this is a duplex. Duplex. That's four bedrooms on each side.

Tommy: Three bedrooms on each side. So I made a barn door. It's a typical duplex, at least we have in Columbus, 100 years old, kitchen, living room or dining room, living room. The front door didn't work. So it was like nail it was screwed shut, and we never used this middle room.

So I was like, okay. There's something here. My buddy, he worked at the courthouse, which was three minutes up the road. Yeah. And I was like, hey.

Come live with me. $400. I'll let you have my room. I built a huge barn door in my living room.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And I just bumped in my living room. And then we just moved the living room space over to here, and I was cash flowing my own house. And I was like, alright. This is sweet. I didn't have my wife's been behind me.

My my wife didn't have a wife. I had a dog. I didn't have a girlfriend. I was like, I gotta sacrifice and get scrappy about this thing.

Steve: Right. Okay. So then you buy a duplex. You keep that one. Yep.

Still have it?

Tommy: Still have it.

Steve: Okay. So what

Tommy: happens after that? So at at towards the middle and end of of that year that I lived there, wholesaling started to to make sense more. I was making a little bit more money. I was saving money because I wasn't paying for housing. So I was saving money.

I was still inspecting. And luckily, I met my business partners in 2020. Met my business partner, at a home inspection. So I was doing a draw inspection for a hard money company. It's funny how it all comes together.

Steve: Have, like, an inside pass.

Tommy: It's insane. It's insane. So the funny thing is, we were me and now my now business partner were waiting for the person that was selling it. The person that was selling it was Terry Summers.

Steve: Yeah. He

Tommy: was thirty minutes late because he was hungover and go figure.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And we just got to chatting. So he was in car sales. By the time he was 19, he owned car lots until he was 23.

Steve: Your partner.

Tommy: My business partner. So old school sales. He said an old school guy, brought him in, taught him all these sales, like, on the phones, throwing stuff at him, like, very old school. He ended up going bankrupt when he was 23. So then he was a sales manager for an auto a car, a Nissan, a big Nissan, dealership and until he was 30.

So I met him when he was 29 or 30, and he had just taken his lumps. He was starting to wholesale. He'd done a couple deals. I had now done a couple wholesale deals, and it was kinda just like this here. It's like I had the network.

He had the know how, how to call, he had the time, and it kinda just exploded from there.

Steve: Would you say that was the time when everything became real?

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: How much longer were you still inspecting homes?

Tommy: I inspected homes probably for another two years after we got together. So 2022, 2022 is when I I quit. Not that long ago?

Steve: No. Wasn't. Why did you continue inspecting?

Tommy: It's a family thing. You know? I mean, it's my dad. I always said I was gonna take I was gonna look after my parents. It was just this mental thing of, like, I was help building his business.

I hired an inspector. I was growing it, and it was growing actually pretty well. I mean, I was pounding the pavement. I was doing meeting realtors. It was I was inspecting three, four, five houses a day sometimes with him, and I was spending quality time quality time with him.

It was fun. And finally, I was at a a vacation mastermind, and I'd met somebody prior. And he he looked at me, and he's like, dude, what are your goals? I told him the same thing I told him before. I wanna retire my parents.

And he looks at me and he's like, if you inspect a thousand more houses this year, are you gonna retire your dad? And I was like, no. And he's like, what are you doing? Mhmm. And I'll and it was just like a light bulb.

So I went to the beach that night, cried a little bit, talked to my my buddy, and I'll he's like, dude, you know what you gotta do when you get home. So I went home, had the hard conversation, and, cut it off.

Steve: What's a vacation mastermind?

Tommy: So, like, Tab Retreat. Did

Steve: you ever

Tommy: hear that Terry thing?

Steve: I had

Tommy: a Tab Retreat.

Steve: So it

Tommy: was a Tab Retreat. Gotcha. So 200 real estate investors coming, having drinks, and, networking.

Steve: Terry told you that?

Tommy: No. It was Chris Papadopoulos, if

Steve: you know him. Gotcha. Ken said that I do. Yeah.

Tommy: Crushing it out of new, North Carolina.

Steve: Yeah. Terry and I, we talked about there were a couple different times I was supposed to go down there, but it just never worked out. But that's cool.

Tommy: Great event.

Steve: Yeah. Incredible event. I mean, it's a bargain when he drives. Yeah. Come out and speak, and we'll pay for you if you're out there for a week.

Absolutely. It's a pretty good deal. If I didn't have if my kids didn't have school, it'd be an awesome situation.

Tommy: Absolutely.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So that's when it becomes real. You have your conversation with your parents. Yep.

Were they on board or are they Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They're like, hey. So your dad wasn't disappointed because, like, the point was you're supposed to take it over at

Tommy: some point. And you're

Steve: the you said you're Kind of.

Tommy: We never really had the, like, the conversation I was gonna take it over. Mhmm. But, yeah, it was a pretty powerful conversation. He we we had we talked, and he's like, Tom, I didn't send you to college to do the same exact thing that I've done. I want you to do bigger.

I want you to do better. And that was even more reassurance. I was like, boom. Okay. Like, I gotta go all in on real estate, not only to prove them right, but to make them proud and and change the whole family dynamic.

Gotcha.

Steve: So the way I heard of you, right, was I'm in a family mastermind. You're in a family mastermind. They just had an event a couple weeks ago.

Tommy: Yep. Last week. Just came from it.

Steve: Last week.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: Yeah. And so, like, I'm just, you know, screwing around on Facebook. And then Matt Andrews, or I think maybe you posted it as, like, here is SOP. Like, no one talks about SOPs in Instagram.

Tommy: Right.

Steve: Here is standard operating procedures on how to grow your Instagram followers.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: Like, what the heck is this? Right. I clicked on it, and it was, like, a legit Yeah. SOP. Did you come up with it?

I did. You sat down Yeah. I wrote it all out. Yep. So you're detail oriented.

Tommy: Somewhat.

Steve: Gotcha. What inspired that? So one of my mentor,

Tommy: one of my mentors, Austin, he was like, dude, this was even when I was still inspecting, dude, you gotta get on social media. You gotta get you're doing cool stuff. You're flipping houses. You're wholesaling houses. You're 26.

Steve: Walking through dog crap.

Tommy: Walking through dog crap. Like, it it's it's cool. People need to see it. And I was like, okay. So I did the whole thing of hired a videographer, and they would follow me around.

And I would get I would get stressed out because I felt like I had to do something cool. And I was like and it it wasn't really growing. So I went a whole year almost of, like, very little Instagram growth, but I knew I had to do it. It was working a little bit with just, like, showing people what I did. But I was listening to a podcast, and the person in the podcast, they said, listen, entrepreneurs, you don't need a camera following you around all the time.

80% of the stuff you do is not that cool. The 20% is very cool. So what you need to do is digest that 20% and document it. So that completely changed it because I just started looking at my deal board. I need to if we have fifteen, twenty deals on the board, I'll say, okay.

What what are we doing here? What lesson are we doing? What exit strategy are we doing here? What money are we raising here? Just, like, talking about everything, and I just script it out line by line.

You script it. I script it out word for word. So every video you see on my Instagram is my words, me written, everything.

Steve: Same question here. Year with no traction or minimal trash Yep. Minimal traction. Why were you still going?

Tommy: Oh, I mean, just again, like, I see people being successful, and I'm like, this person is not smarter than me. Like, I know like, they just maybe have done it longer, and, like, I just gotta keep going. And I listened to I think it was maybe Ryan Pineda a couple years back, and he was like, dude, the stuff you're gonna be doing in the beginning is going to suck. Mhmm. Embrace it.

Keep going. Don't quit.

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: That's kinda just been the way I was I've been with everything. It's just like, don't quit. It it is worth it. And now, like, raising money is is is pretty easy because of social media, growing. I mean, real deals, like, every and it just makes life a lot easier.

Yeah.

Steve: I think Ryan definitely created a lot of waves on social media.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. That was probably three years ago when he said that that was actually the tab retreat as well. I was listening to him.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So you keep going Yep. Despite, like, very little positive feedback. And then you go back to drawing board and say, okay.

We're gonna present this different. So you had a video for the whole time. Yep. You're paying for this video for the whole time. Alright.

So you're gonna go back and document the lessons.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: And then you're gonna record content. Yep. Whose idea was it for you to stand on a pile of junk?

Tommy: That was me.

Steve: Okay.

Tommy: So it someone else I I'll also listen. It's like, hey. You gotta make it quick. Cut to different scenes. Mhmm.

Try to keep people's attention. Right? So when I when I was doing it before, we were kinda just walking through houses. I was like, oh, and this is happening here. It's just boring, you know?

So now it's very it's scripted. We're gonna go stay in the bathtub. We're gonna stay on a roof. We're gonna go lay in a crawl space. And, actually, also, while we do it, talk about real things.

Right. Talk about the house. Talk about raising capital. Talk about flipping them. Talk about wholesaling.

Talk about the BRRR method. Because we actually do all those things, which a lot of influencers don't. Mhmm. We actually do it, and we're doing it at a pretty high level. So it makes it easier to actually talk about it.

Steve: Right. You have a dry delivery, though.

Tommy: K.

Steve: It's like, like, what's really popular right now is, intentionally being intentionally dry.

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, you're just kinda talking.

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: Where, like, it's funny. It appears funny, but you're not being funny. Yeah. That makes sense.

Tommy: Sure.

Steve: Right? And I think is that what do you think is your formula?

Tommy: Maybe unintentionally. I've I've never heard that. It's just kinda me being myself and Right. Like, running through it.

Steve: You just look at it. And it's like, again, like, why is this guy on the roof? Why is he in the bathtub? Right? Like Yeah.

Why is he standing on, like, four feet of whatever it is in someone's kitchen? Yeah. Right?

Tommy: Yeah. It's more for just, like, people would be like, exactly what is he doing? And they gotta watch it again. It's good for the the algorithm. It's like, hey.

Steve: Great for the algorithm. Like, what is happening?

Tommy: There's a lot of people again. Why is he doing that? Right. So that's mostly it's I didn't want it was more about me reflecting on what what I did wrong the first time. Mhmm.

I fired the other guy. Great friends with him, but had to change.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And I was like, you know, I I personally have to do better, so I have to think of things better way. I can't rely on these other people. So it was just completely changing the way I was doing everything. What did

Steve: you play in soccer?

Steve: What was your position? Left mid.

Tommy: Left to right mid.

Steve: Okay. Competitive?

Tommy: Yep. Very.

Steve: Obsessed? Yeah. Constantly introspective? Yeah. What you'd like, what you screwed up during the game on the drive home?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Okay.

That's probably part of it. Like, you're going back and just beating up the game film except your game film is, like, instant Yeah. Absolutely. Gotcha. Okay.

So when did you know this was gonna work?

Tommy: When we so I I keep KPIs on it. So every week, we we keep KPIs on everything. Mhmm. So what worked, what didn't, and it started week over week growing by, like, 2,000. So for the last year, year and a half, it's been growing for anywhere from a thousand to 3,000 followers organically.

Never paid for an ad. Mhmm. Never did anything. And it's just been and growing, I get good feedback. Be like, hey.

Like, I like your stuff because you're actually talking. I actually learned something.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: So the feedback's been really good.

Steve: What KPIs are you tracking for?

Tommy: So we track, what do we track? We track how many posts we have on each platform, how many views, how many story views, how many shares, how many website clicks, how many website visits, how many website clicks.

Steve: Per video?

Tommy: Per no. No. On on in total. Okay. What else, Rob?

Yeah. Following and unfollows. Mhmm. So we we're trying to figure out, like, okay. What worked?

What didn't? Do so do we say something that people didn't like? Are they unfollowing for a reason?

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: But if that seems pretty steady, feel like right? The last year and a half, it's been, like, 50 unfollows a day Mhmm. And anywhere from a 100 to 500 follows a day. Yeah. What do you

Steve: think those unfollows are?

Tommy: Probably, I mean, bots or maybe you say the wrong thing and somebody's like, you know what? I'm tired of this guy. Like

Steve: My guess is the bots. Yeah. I think they fall and fall and fall and fall.

Tommy: It's gotta be right. Right.

Steve: I

Tommy: mean, because it's literally consistently, like, fifty fifty to 55 every day.

Steve: The only time I get, like, more than 50 when I say something political. Yeah. Then it's like, okay. We offended somebody. Yeah.

Tommy: I try to stay a

Steve: lot of people.

Tommy: Yeah. I try to stay away from all that stuff.

Steve: Yeah. It was, it was, my opinions on, masks. Okay. Right? So, like, I did this video for a bit.

I was talking about, like, you know, in our office, you could wear in Arizona. Right? Like, no one wore masks. Right. And so I did a whole video.

It's like, you know, in my office, our policy is gonna double mask, triple mask, some days, get a get a boost every week, and, and all these other things. Yeah. And, like, and I was like, I I look dead serious Yeah. In the whole thing. And, but, obviously, I wasn't.

Yeah. And I had someone so offended by it. Like, that I was recruiting.

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: I'm like, I can't work here.

Tommy: No way.

Steve: Really? Like, that is, like, probably better. Yeah. Because I would have offended you once you worked

Tommy: here. Absolutely.

Steve: So, but yeah. So it's interesting. We're always at the those follows and follows. So, what is your I don't know. I guess we'll start off.

What is your budget for growing your social media?

Tommy: It's it's really not that expensive, man. It's it's time. Time is expensive. I mean, it takes a lot of time to write everything out. So, like, on a Sunday, which is usually my my writing days, it'll take two, three hours to write 10 videos, 14 videos.

So the time part is expensive. And, Robbie behind us here, he's full time. So he's on salary. So, $50.60 grand a year traveling. I mean, doing podcasts and all that stuff, growing the brand, but that's obviously worth it.

Steve: So two to three hours on Sundays. Yep. Just write all your scripts. Yep. It's pretty intentional.

Tommy: It is.

Steve: Where did you learn the script?

Tommy: Just started writing. So, I mean, I'd heard that you need to write a hook. So, like, oh, hey. I lost $50 on this deal. And then you just write out why.

And, hey. You know, we raised capital for this. It took six months to get permits and, twelve months to rehab and ended up holding costs for this, and this is why. So, like, telling the story of why. And then if you don't wanna if you wanna learn how to not lose money, hit that follow button or something, and then call to action at the end.

Steve: Gotcha. So worthwhile doing this? Yes. Okay. What have you seen to be the benefit of of doing this?

Tommy: The biggest one a lot of it is non ROI stuff. So, like, you definitely get deals from it. I mean, some of the best deals I've gotten, have been from social media. People call DMing you that you've never met saying, hey, man. Been watching you for two years.

Just bought my first house hack. Hey. Just, did my first flip. Thank you so much. They never paid me.

They've never I've never even heard from them, and they just shoot you a random DM. It's like, oh, that sounds pretty sweet. Yeah. And then rewarding. It is.

And then lastly, I mean, raising capital. I mean, yesterday, I was trying to raise money for, 900,000. We got two deals that we're closing next week and the week after, and I was kinda sweating it. I'm on the money raising guy of my company, and I was like, okay. F it.

I'm gonna go to I got I'm gonna go to Facebook. I'm gonna go to Instagram. Mhmm. And I had 20 people respond back that they were willing to lend $50,100, 150. I might raise the $500 within, like, three hours of that.

Steve: What was your message to make that happen?

Tommy: Just hey. For those that don't know, I I'm buying houses, with with with other people's cash. We've been doing this for the last five years. I signed up personally. We've made our lenders $500 passively last two years.

If you're looking to make some passive money truly backed by me, backed by my portfolio, shoot me a DM. Gotcha.

Steve: So, like, people are watching this. Right? The hook was retired your mom to real estate. We're not gonna talk about real estate.

Tommy: Right.

Steve: So how you said you've got you some of your best deals. Yep. If you were to break down your deals, are more coming from your social media or more coming from more traditional marketing channels?

Tommy: Yeah. Most of them are coming from our wholesaling business.

Steve: Okay. But, like, from, like, your, like, direct to seller marketing or joint venture and, like, how

Tommy: Direct to seller marketing and, wholesalers within our market.

Steve: Got it. Yeah. So more from direct to seller marketing or more from wholesalers?

Tommy: So we just switched our model recently. So we hired I was doing DISPO in our wholesaling business for the longest time, and we finally hired out full time dispo. So as you know, when you hire a full time dispo, you have to make sure that they're getting paid. Mhmm. So before, I would, like, half ass dispo.

Mhmm. And I was like, oh, nobody wants it. Let's buy it. Mhmm. And and they would still work out, but then it constrained the capital of the business because we were buying it.

Steve: And then

Tommy: if we kept it as a rental, and if you have to keep money in the rental, like, you're definitely constraining the business. So we realized that And

Steve: cash flow pretty fast.

Tommy: Exactly. Very fast. So we we changed that around. We hired a a full time guy, changed changed it completely. That was probably six months ago.

Mhmm.

Steve: So

Tommy: then we were like, okay. We still wanna flip 15 houses at a time or renovate 15 houses at a time because our exit is flip or do the bar method. Mhmm. And, we gotta find those deals somehow. So that's my job now to social media, go to networking events, talk to wholesalers, educate people.

Mhmm. Because when you educate them and they they're they're gonna bring it back to you. Right? So it's a lot of it's a lot of that.

Steve: What meetup events are you going to?

Tommy: So I host my own events. A a lot of them in Columbus. There's a a few in Columbus as well that, randomly people will throw.

Steve: Are you, like, a celebrity at these events?

Tommy: Not really.

Steve: No. Are you sure?

Tommy: I'm a normal guy, man. I mean, I I I'm a home inspector. I always tell people, man. I mean, my me and my business partner, we always have a joke. We do something like, man, I'm just a home inspector.

He's like, man, I'm just a used car salesman. It's like, anybody can do this stuff. You know? You just gotta be I mean, like we talked about earlier, you gotta be a little bit dumb enough to keep going and and figure it out.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So you do I mean, 350 deals in four years. Right? Yep.

You're doing burrs. You're doing flips. You're doing wholesale, raising capital. How many hats are you wearing?

Tommy: Right now less, which is good. And it I'm definitely my dad growing up, he was I mean, he's definitely workaholic e. Mhmm. So, like, if if I'm not working, I'm like, what is going on? Like, I need to be doing something.

So as I start to, like, not do dispo and do us I'm doing a lot of content, pushing a lot of content, going on doing stuff like this, throwing meetups, throwing workshops. So a lot of it now is, like, going to the, like, the social media side Right. And growing. We have an education company as well. Mhmm.

So growing that, making sure that we get the right people in there. And I I still am looking over the flipping side of things. So I come from a construction background. I am training my project manager, week over week.

Steve: So you're still overseeing the flips? Yep. You let go of Dyspo? Yep. But you're still in charge of relationships?

Tommy: Yes. We just hired a relationship manager.

Steve: Okay. So you just hired a relationship manager?

Tommy: JV guy.

Steve: Okay. So let's talk about all the differences in your company. K.

Tommy: What are

Steve: all the different roles inside your company?

Tommy: So we have two acquisitions. Mhmm. One is a manager, one's, senior manager, one's a regular act. We have Dispo. We have my business partner.

We have a full time office manager, TC. We have three VAs. So one lead manager, one that does our data stuff.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: One that does dispo help. And then what else do we have? We've got, so our business partner, he comes from the sales background. So he does a lot of the day to day sales training with the guys Mhmm. Comp training, call training.

So he's more of, like, the bring the deal inside, and then we're both kind of, training dispo.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And then, we have a project manager full time. He has a assistant. He's a college kid that's kinda doing running stuff for him. We have, who else we got? We've got Eddie who is our we we actually manage all of our properties in house.

So he's our property management team member. We have a full time maintenance guy and a full time, VA on in that business as well.

Steve: It's a pretty big operation. Yeah. What's your monthly overhead?

Tommy: Like, $60. $60? Yeah.

Steve: So what what do you do right now for for direct to sell the market? What are you guys doing for that?

Tommy: Texting cold

Steve: call. Texting cold call. Yep. Still working for you guys?

Tommy: Been our bread and breader for five years. I believe that part.

Steve: Yeah. Completely believe that.

Tommy: It still is working. So, obviously, like, with line control, like, dropping and all that stuff, it stopped. So Mhmm. My business partner is pretty smart.

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: So he he built out a smartphone text blast for while they were trying to figure it out. So we were doing that and then doing a lot of, like, one off text messaging. We use REI Sift heavily.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: I can't answer any questions on that stuff. He can it's a different way, different brains. But, yeah, cold calling. I mean, we have six cold callers, over in Egypt, two different companies. We use our, CRI Mhmm.

And RESVA. Yeah. And it's been consistent. I mean, 12 to 13 to 15 contracts a month with a $10,000 overhead spend.

Steve: That's pretty remarkable. Yeah. And Tyler Austin, I I the guy's super smart.

Tommy: Yeah. Like, that's it's not

Steve: a lot of guys. He's like, don't cross that guy ever. Like, that's one of those guys you don't cross because

Tommy: He's legit.

Steve: You'll figure out how to hack into your house.

Tommy: That's right.

Steve: So, really, really solid, dude. So you come in today, and you're wearing a shirt

Tommy: Yes, sir.

Steve: That says no guru, no flaw. What's that about?

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Tommy: Yeah. So, I mean, it it kinda goes back to the social come from a home inspection background. Mhmm. So I'm watching people's videos and people that even I admire. And I'm like, everybody's talking about real estate, but nobody's talking about the house.

Nobody's talking about, like, the actual like, nobody's talking about losses either.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And if people are doing the volume that they say Mhmm. How come I'm the only one that's taking lot like, taking some losses? Right. So, do these gurus that are online, they're just like they're they're just selling you something. It's just like, man, this these guys kinda suck.

Mhmm.

Steve: You know?

Tommy: So I was like, okay. The brand is gonna be I started saying after every video, and that's the real side of real estate. Mhmm. So it came to that, and then we were when we were trying to think about our what we stand for. Like, we don't wanna be gurus.

We wanna be normal guys creating extraordinary wealth. No fluff. Like, we're giving you actual training and actual networking, actual tangible things you need to invest in real estate, not just like any, like, BS, like, read between the line stuff. Yeah. And that kind of just stuck.

Mhmm. That that's with our brand that we built.

Steve: Did you get burned by a guru?

Tommy: No. Never.

Steve: No. Why is it such a hot button?

Tommy: I think it's a hot button kind of for everybody. You know? I mean, there's just so many peep I mean, you hear it now, like, the scams coming out and all this stuff.

Steve: Oh, for sure. Right? I mean, I think everyone as across the industry is, like, is pretty anti guru. Yeah. But it's only a few to, like, right.

You got, let's see. Chris Rude. Yeah. Pretty pretty passionate about it.

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: Carlos Reyes used to be really, really passionate about it. I'm trying to think of a few other people. I mean, I was we always made the jokes here with, like, the no hug gurus. Right?

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: But the marketing message wasn't like Yeah. Anti guru. It's just like, hey. We do deals. Sure.

Tommy: I mean, that's kind of what it was for us. I mean, it's just like, hey. We're normal guys. Like, we're not gurus. Mhmm.

Like, when you come into our community or you come like, you you learn from us, we're not gonna sit up like we're at the top of the pedestal. We're not we're not those guys. Like, I can learn from you Mhmm. Even if you're a beginner as much as you can learn from me. That's not how many gurus are.

They're like, I do it the right way, the only way, and you listen to me.

Steve: Yeah. You know? Speak from on high Right. Every tower.

Tommy: Absolutely.

Steve: Gotcha. So, when did you start your community?

Tommy: About a year ago now.

Steve: About a year ago now. And talk talking about, like, the what's what's happened inside of inside of it.

Tommy: Yeah. So we teach how to wholesale and flip. We have about a 180 people in there now. It's growing month over month. We, I mean, just kinda so I helped so Austin, he was me and my business partner were his we help him build his coaching program.

So he came to us. He's like, hey. I wanna do this coaching program. So we started doing that, and my brand started to grow for the over those two years. And after a while, I was like, hey.

I gotta start my own thing. I gotta turn my like, my brand is growing. I gotta I gotta start something from this because I have people asking me all the time.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: So, just kinda took what we liked from that program, what we didn't, and just kind of switched some things around. So we do a couple weekly calls. We have prerecorded content. We work out of a Slack messaging channel Mhmm.

Steve: To

Tommy: where you have 30 channels, whether it's raising private money, sales objections, sales calls, breakdowns. And you can ask questions in these individual things and get answers from industry leaders. So we have, like, our title company in one. We have GCs in one. We have all these people.

So and most of these groups are in Facebook groups.

Steve: And I

Tommy: I'm I'm, like, anti Facebook group when it comes to that because, one, nobody gets on Facebook. Mhmm. And two, like, how do you siphon to get, like, to a question that you need to get an answer for?

Steve: Right. Where is the hosted? Right.

Tommy: It's on Slack.

Steve: And their community is inside Slack? Yep. Interesting. Yep. I haven't seen that before.

Tommy: Yeah. I hadn't either. So school, I if I'd done it now, I'd probably do it on school because I hear that's pretty good. But at the time Yeah.

Steve: School right now, Discord for the longest time.

Tommy: Yep. It's pretty much a Discord.

Steve: Yeah. But, like, no. I've never heard anyone actually do it inside of Slack. So Yeah. It's it's different.

Tommy: We're already using Slack.

Steve: So I

Tommy: was like, okay. Let me just flip another tab. Mhmm. And if you can train people to use something new, they're gonna always go to it, and they know what they're going to. If they're going to Facebook, they're like, oh, let me see what my ex girlfriend's doing.

Oh, let me talk about real estate too.

Steve: Oh, yeah. No. There's a lot of distractions for sure. Yeah. Okay.

So you're doing a lot of different things.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: What is your thing? Like, what is your, like, message?

Tommy: Yeah. So the the message that we have is wholesaling and flipping. The message is, because I I do have a business partner, and he's good at at at at wholesaling, and I know how to wholesale. Mine's probably flipping. So, hey.

You can flip houses with not using other people's cash. It's not that hard. Mhmm. You just gotta learn the tangibles.

Steve: Right. But why you?

Tommy: Because nobody else is actually teaching the houses. Mhmm. So you got all these people saying, hey. You can flip houses. Like, they don't even know about the houses.

Steve: Right.

Tommy: They're relying on a contractor to say, hey. This, this, that, and the other. Mhmm. But I don't know anybody that's building out, like, a full training on, hey. This is this siding.

Hey. This is how you cut tile. This is how and I build out a fifty hour training on that

Steve: of how Cutting tile in there? Yes. Man, that's intense. Yeah.

Tommy: With a wet saw. I'm out there with my contractor, and he's like, and I'm, like, yelling over his ear. I'm like, this is how you got tile.

Steve: So if Zoho wanted to even how to kind of have a do it yourself mentality Mhmm. Like, I mean, you're you're going super deep. Yep. It's not like, okay. Like, here are our favorite colors.

No. Here's the vanities we like. You know, use this promo code on Depot. It's not that. No.

Tommy: No. It's deeper than that. Yeah.

Steve: Okay. It's interesting. There's not a lot of people do that.

Tommy: No. Because they can't. You know? I mean, they just don't like, a lot of people, they know enough to be dangerous Mhmm. But they don't know enough to maybe GC it themselves.

Steve: Right.

Tommy: So and and and we can. We don't fully GC our projects out, but we're we we damn near do.

Steve: Well, and probably really handy that you've been looking at houses since you were 12.

Tommy: Exactly.

Steve: Yeah. Talking about the portfolio you built. Like, how many houses? Where are you with this?

Tommy: Yeah. So we own, after last week, we bought an eight unit and another one, probably about 85 units, eighty, eighty five units, between price 60 properties. So we got a couple small multis in there and maybe, like, fifty fifty five. Mhmm. Because we got a couple eight units in there.

We're buying a nine unit next week. So when we so 2020 into 2021, we're wholesaling a lot. Mhmm. And before that, I was house hacking. I house hacked two houses, bought a house, a couple, just like one off rentals.

But then once we started making really good money and we had the deals in front of us, and me and my business partner, we've been together for about a year and a half, two years. We started to to know each other. We had been in bed for a little while. We knew what was each other's morals, ethics. Do we both wanna buy rentals.

Let's do this together.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: So we were just, like, flip the switch, and it was bad too, which a lot of people won't talk about it. We ended up buying a lot of our wholesale deals. That one, we probably should know. We probably should've wholesale them, and we capped our we restrained our cash so much. Mhmm.

Like, the debt we have on those properties are so good, but we probably we kept so much money in some of those deals that we look back after because you get private money, you do the deal, and then you refinance. And if you keep money in that that money's illiquid now. Mhmm. So we look back and we're like, we know we have so much money. Where is it?

Mhmm. And, like, this is a point, like, 2022, we're like, we're gonna go bankrupt. Like, oh, like, what is going on? Where's the money at? Mhmm.

And we look back through the cash and the deal. Like, they're in all the properties. Right. So, like, we gotta get out of this. So we just started wholesaling like crazy again.

So it was in 2022. I think we bought 40 units. Yeah. So we just bought like crazy, and we're I mean, we just turned the flips into rentals. And, I mean, they're good properties to cash flow.

But if I would do it all over again, I would be way smarter about it and not fall in love with the house.

Steve: I don't know. I mean, you do not care right now. Right?

Tommy: Yeah. We're moving out of it now. It's better.

Steve: But So it's momentary stress. Yeah. But probably, you know, twenty, thirty

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: Tommy's probably gonna be appreciative.

Tommy: Absolutely. 100%. 100%. It it definitely, scared the shit out of me for lack of better terms for six months, nine months.

Steve: So you talked about the losses that you've experienced. Like, what are some of the biggest losses that you've had?

Tommy: Yes. I mean, I had a $100,000 loss. I mean, probably in the last year and a half, two years, let's call it two years, we probably lost on 10 flips. Mhmm. I mean I mean, end of was it 2022 and the '23, the market changed.

People started freaking out again. Mhmm. We were trying to grow our flipping business, got caught with our pants down on a few, and just I mean, you gotta pay your private money off. So just take the loss and go to the next one. Mhmm.

Most people will I posted my losses on Instagram too. People like to see that. Yeah. They like to see that you're honest, and they also like to see you lose. Those are the two things.

Mhmm. So they most people, and I I just most people will say, well, why don't you just keep it as a rental? It's like, why would I sink more money on a refi for a house that I can't they don't even know if you can service the debt. It's like, yes. It sounds great in theory, but what like, people just like to run their mouth on the Internet.

Steve: I think those are just probably the less experienced Right. Asset investors.

Tommy: Absolutely. Right?

Steve: Because those are the ones that we buy houses from. Yeah. Right? It's, it was an accidental rental. Like, I bought this to be a, to be a flip, and I get this rental.

Like, I've heard that story

Tommy: way too many times.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So, what are some other, painful lessons? You're talking about, you know, the the losses you experienced, or maybe we'll talk about the biggest lessons you've learned along the way.

Tommy: I mean, the cliche thing is I mean, I I came out as 23 years old. I thought I was gonna set the world on fire. I was gonna just immediately become a millionaire real estate investor and got kicked in the teeth a bunch of times. It, like, it's happened. Like, I've done what I said I was going to do Mhmm.

But it took me seven years. Right.

Steve: You know,

Tommy: I I heard you in the beginning say you wanna create millionaires in the next five to seven years. That couldn't be more real is if you put your head down for five to seven years and work your ass off.

Steve: Right.

Tommy: It is gonna happen. Like, if you take the concession action, it's a 100% gonna happen, except you just can't it's gonna go like this. And once you get kicked, you cannot quit because Yeah. That's just that's life.

Steve: Yeah. It's taught

Tommy: me a lot of lessons.

Steve: Yeah. You're gonna have massive body blows. Yeah. So if you could let's let's talk about we already talked about the 100 loss.

Tommy: K.

Steve: So that aside, what are three of your biggest, most challenging situations?

Tommy: Okay. So challenging situations. I would say as everything was going well in, 2021, 2022, I was making money. I got wrapped up into a a crypto scam. So Ponzi scheme, crypto scam, lost a $150 doing that.

So me and all my friends, we're making money, and this guy was a derivatives trader. He's actually about to go to jail soon. Good. Yeah. Thank God.

So got caught up in a crypto scheme. Mhmm. So that's another thing of, like, real estate investors are very opportunistic. Mhmm. When they see something, they like it and they go for it.

Mhmm. It's not always that. It's not always good to go do that.

Steve: We're not so good at due diligence.

Tommy: No. So we all jumped in, and we should have known it was too good to be true. So lost a bunch bunch of money that way. What other losses? I mean, I've lost friendships, jumping into, like, flips or JVs with people that I really like as people.

And then you see kind of if you start to lose money, they they completely change.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: So just really trying to vet people out before I don't really like to do, like, business partnerships now. It's just not really worth it, especially with friends because I I value friendship, and family more than, because when money changes, people start to change as well.

Steve: Yeah. So when things got hard

Tommy: Mhmm.

Steve: You saw another side of them

Tommy: Absolutely.

Steve: That you never seen before.

Tommy: Absolutely. Yeah. And one of my buddies, we were, we were out one night, and he was like and he called it. It was right about when the market was about to change in 2022 to '23. He was like, dude, just watch what happens.

And, like, everybody's going on vacations together. Everybody in our market comes in a different market. Everybody kinda hangs out with each other.

Steve: Yeah. Everyone's interesting.

Tommy: It is interesting. And then once it changed, couple of people that you thought you knew was, like, that's the real that's that real person. Yeah. Which was which was cool to see.

Steve: Yeah. So these relationships are are gone?

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. I try to stay pretty neutral. And, in the middle, I don't like. I try to stay out of gossip because there's a line.

Real estate is, like, almost like high school. Everybody likes to gossip.

Steve: I mean, it's a relationship business. It is. Everyone knows everybody.

Tommy: It's crazy.

Steve: Yeah. A lot

Tommy: of gossip going on. I'm like, man, this is I get into Facebook groups and people have an argument. So I'm like, what is going on?

Steve: Yeah. No. I I from Phoenix, I've heard the stuff in Ohio. So I and I said that Michael Smith was here a couple weeks ago. I said the same thing to him.

Like, it's just fascinating how, like, Ohio is as big with all different gurus. I say gurus. I don't say that in a bad way.

Tommy: No. Absolutely.

Steve: Just like, you know, there are a lot of There's people that are there. Right? So it's fascinating, like, how many there are there. Because you guys are a lot smaller than Lot smaller. Right?

But you guys have a lot I I mean, I think per capita, you guys actually might beat us in guru per capita.

Tommy: It might be. Might be. Maybe gurus that actually do the business too. So that helps.

Steve: For sure. Yeah. For sure. But, like, it's amazing how many are are are out there.

Tommy: It is.

Steve: Okay. So the crypto one. So if you had to do it all over again Oh, god. What precautions would you have taken?

Tommy: I mean, ask for references.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: But even, like, the dude's family, like, friends that were I mean, it just when you when you smell something that's that's not right, just don't do it. I mean, I I he wanted people to go out and, like, recruit basically money for him to start trading with. It was like raising capital. Honestly, like, for for a real estate deal.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And just if if it smells too good

Steve: to be true, just don't do it. But crypto's funny. Like, it has ridiculous returns. I know. So you're like, how do you like, is that like, is he being unrealistic?

You just don't know. Right. The the they can 100 x and go to zero.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. So he was, like, he claimed he was derivative trading Bitcoin. So that was his thing. So he was trading interstate trading Bitcoin, blah blah blah, and I didn't know anything about it.

That's also the other problem. It's like, okay. That sounds cool. And he just, like, fooled us with large words and big numbers, and I was like, oh, okay. This guy knows what he's talking about.

Mhmm. And turns out, no.

Steve: No. Yeah. That's one of the unfortunate realities. So where was I gonna go with this? Oh,

Steve: so your

Steve: intention at TAB was your big goal was to retire your parents.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: Did you retire your dad also? Is your dad still working?

Tommy: Not yet. He's still working. He's still working. Okay.

Steve: You retired your mom? Yep. At 28 years old? Yep. How long ago was that?

Tommy: So that was when I was two years ago.

Steve: Two years ago. So yeah. So talk to me about that experience.

Tommy: Yeah. So she's been a teacher. She's a high school math teacher for thirty years. And when I was doing that first flip, this was six, seven years ago. I was like, hey.

Get your real estate license. Like, I'm gonna start flipping houses. You're gonna We got you. Well, we got you. You're gonna crush it.

And so then my uncle tells her no, which is probably good because we couldn't sell the house anyway, and it would have been more animosity. And then I start flipping a couple houses, and she makes a little bit of money.

Steve: She she So your mom was the realtor? Yep. So she when when you were flipping Yep. You listed with your mom. Yep.

Got

Tommy: it. So she designed her house from the ground up. Mhmm. Great design to eye, all that stuff. So she would start designing my my kitchens, some of my layouts Mhmm.

And she enjoyed it. And and high school's changed a lot from when I was in there. I graduated in 2013. I mean, I couldn't even have a phone out. Now kids are smoking vapes and doing all this crazy stuff Really?

In class. Yeah. I mean, just class? Yeah. Yeah.

And then, I mean, I I'm not dad yet. My my wife's pregnant right now, but, I mean, we couldn't have phones out. None of that stuff, and it's all changed. And, I mean, she's old school. And I was like, okay, mom.

What's it gonna take for you to to quit? What are you making? What what what do I what does it need to be? So we started an Airbnb company, and she was, like, running the Airbnb for a little while, which we just actually shut down probably three months ago. But she now sells all our real estates.

We're flipping by 75 to a 100, houses a year now Mhmm. Going into this year. And she'll get all of my listings, at 2%, and she'll make four, five x of what she was making as a,

Steve: You're still making her work?

Tommy: Yeah. So I always say retire. I always do, like, one of these. Mhmm. But, she gets to go on more vacation.

She gets to make way more money. Mhmm. And hopefully here soon, completely stop working. But she's only 55. Right.

And she's she's got a lot she's incredibly high energy.

Steve: I'm just trying to picture this. So high school math. Yep. Freshman, senior Freshman. Freshman.

And they're vaping in class.

Tommy: Yeah. That's just It's insane.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, my daughter is in seventh grade. Yeah. So in two years, she'll be a freshman. I think she was vaping.

I think I would just slap her. Yeah. Right. I I I don't even know what else I would do with a day.

Tommy: But as a teacher, you can't slap them. Yeah. So it's just changed and, like, I don't know. It just was getting to the point where she was just stressing out about just everything. And I'm like, just quit.

And she's like, one one of five kids again, health health insurance. It always came back to that. Like, playing sports, everybody would get injured, and she was the one because my dad was an entrepreneur, she was the one that always had the health insurance. She was always the one that we would lean on for the the consistency. So I was like so I had to change their mindsets of, like, guys, you know money can pay for health insurance.

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: That's that's the thing. Right? Yeah. And so finally, after she started I mean, she probably made $250 last year

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: Selling our houses. And I was like, okay. Like, I told you so. Good. That you're good.

Steve: Yeah. So you see the oldest of five?

Tommy: I'm the second oldest. Second oldest sister.

Steve: Okay. So how old are your younger siblings?

Tommy: So my, younger brother is 26.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: He's now flipping houses. He's an inspector with my dad. Mallory is 25. She just quit her job to go full time Instagram food blogger Nice. And food creator.

And then Will, he's 22. Might have just turned 23, actually. Mhmm. I always feel confused. There's so many.

And he is, doing inspecting. He's gonna do some investing as well.

Steve: Gotcha. So you're really turning this into a family business.

Tommy: Absolutely.

Steve: Was there, was that the plan?

Tommy: Pretty much.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Do the do you have any issues with, like, maybe they feel like they're in your shadows?

Tommy: I think maybe my little brother does a little bit, but he he's he's done a good way of, of of carving his way out. Like, he's I want I have these huge dreams. Like, I I'm going around the country, obviously, doing podcasts in these masterminds, wanting to do something bigger. He's okay with flipping ten, twenty, 30 houses a year Mhmm. Inspecting houses still doing that.

So he's carved his own lane in that sense for sure.

Steve: How involved are you with your sister and her food blogging?

Tommy: Not really at all. But she, we we we we kinda have a competition about who, who gets more followers. Gotcha. So we're at a $100 or a 100,000 together. This was probably three months.

Mhmm. And she took off to, like, one seventy now, and she's, like, rubbing it in my face.

Steve: Rightfully so. Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy: More people like food than real estate.

Steve: I don't know. Everyone's a real estate expert.

Tommy: That's right.

Steve: Right? Everyone eats. Yeah. But everyone's a real estate expert. Like, everyone has an opinion on real estate.

Tommy: I know.

Steve: So, like, I have, obviously, the media in here. Right? We have, I have five guys in the media team. Yep. My brother worked here for a bit.

No way. Right? And he loves to cook. And I was like, just hang out with those guys. Yeah.

Pick their brains. Like, you love to cook. Like

Tommy: Just start posting.

Steve: Make a channel. Do something. Right? And he's like, I don't wanna do anything. Right?

Like, you love to cook. Like, you should do something with this. Should. But, he he's content working in engineering. Okay.

So two years ago, you said your mom. You did you did have her quit her job.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: I mean, what what was that emotional experience?

Tommy: I mean, it was good. I mean, it was just, like, it was all it all came together at that point because she told me six, seven years ago when I said I was gonna flip a house, she told me I was crazy.

Steve: She told

Tommy: me to be careful. She told me all these things. When I went to buy my first house hack, she was my realtor, but she said, I don't want you to live in this area. You're not buying this house. I said, yes.

I am. Like, it's kinda just me pushing through all of these objections of, like, you know I mean, everybody says it, like, they love you, but they they they worry for you. Mhmm. And I'm just like, I don't care. Mhmm.

I'm gonna do it. And if I get kicked in the teeth, I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna get back up. Yeah. And it's given this platform now for my family to to do way bigger things.

We talk about we're middle class. We grew up middle I grew up middle class. Like I said, home inspector dad. Mom's a teacher. We never really were hurting for money, but there was always these objections of we don't have the money for this.

We can't do that, but we work like, my dad instilled, you better work your ass off. Mhmm. You better. So instilling that, but also, like, why can't we talk about money at the dinner table? Why can't we talk about investing and all these things?

And it's funny the last three, four years, the conversations are fun now at the dinner table.

Steve: So you weren't allowed to do that as a kid?

Tommy: I wouldn't say not, but we just didn't. You know? It wasn't like something outwardly spoken about.

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Steve: So if you want Ian Ross or myself to train you to get better at sales, if you wanna be able to control your income, decide exactly how much money you make, and you wanna work at a company where you value and appreciate it, we encourage you click the link below. However, we're only hiring superstars. If you're not a plus caliber, don't click below. So have you read the ultimate sales machine?

Tommy: No. I have not.

Steve: That's a great book by Chet Holmes. K. And he talks about, like, you know, to be successful in a current sales, you have you have to be pigheaded stubbornness. K. We're gonna ask your mom if she describe you in this way.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. She described me in a lot of different ways, ornery, but pig headed. Yes. But exactly what you just said.

Yeah. She's gonna watch this, and she's gonna laugh her ass off Yeah. To what you just said because that's to a t. She said I was a full time job growing up.

Steve: So So you were the one that breaking things?

Tommy: Yeah.

Steve: Lots of trips to the hospital?

Tommy: Not really breaking, like, bones, but breaking the rules.

Steve: Breaking things in the house?

Tommy: More of just, like, breaking the rules, going out and doing things. Like, as a high school, I shouldn't have. Always trying to figure out where I was. Like, always kind of a troublemaker.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And this is before cell cell phones are really prevalent.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. And definitely, like, Instagram came about when I was, like, a junior in high school. So there wasn't stories, like, the post I went back through when I started, like, being intentional on my Instagram, I was like, I gotta I gotta clean this up a little bit.

Steve: I did have some stuff that, is Myspace. Okay.

Tommy: Nice.

Steve: When I got into real estate, I was like, all these things on Myspace that have my name in it. I reached out to all of us, like, we gotta take this stuff down. Right? I'm a professional now. Right.

Like, we can't have these things out here.

Tommy: That's right.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So what is your business look like today versus when you started?

Tommy: Yeah. So in the beginning, it was just everything was us bootstrapping. So me and my business partner, we were in the attic of our buddies. We were we didn't have an office until we went to the attic. Describe that.

So he he had a big office downtown, kinda where I live now. Mhmm. And he he might know him. Sean Grapo. He's in, he's in the family.

So Sean had an office. He was like, hey. I got the space. Do you guys wanna move? And I my business partner didn't want an office.

He wanted to be kind of a nomad. And I was like, do we need an office? We need to see each other day to day basis. Let's do this. Mhmm.

So he was sale he was acquisitions. I was dispositions. Only wholesaling. Mhmm. So we were like, okay.

Let let's go up there. And then started doing some deals, hired an acquisition because he'd been on the phones for ten years being in the car business. He's like, I don't wanna do this forever. I knew we need to hire somebody to do this or else I'm gonna drive myself up the wall. Mhmm.

So we did that, and then we hired a project manager because we started doing some flips and just kinda grew it organically outside of that. So every time we were growing and whenever we put our mind to growing one side of the business, it it's like wildfire. It grows really fast because he's a smart dude, and we just started, like, let's let's just go for

Steve: it. Mhmm.

Tommy: And we're not afraid of failure. Gotcha.

Steve: And then what does your life look like today?

Tommy: Oh, man. So, doing a lot of traveling. Social media has brought me to a lot of cool places, masterminds. I got married. My wife's back behind us right there.

We got married back in June, so we've been married, what, seven months or so. Mhmm. We're having a kid here in, three months. So we're gonna have a kid pretty much right on our anniversary. Awesome.

So, a lot different. Gonna have gonna have kids, and it's kind of everything I thought about in the beginning of, I wanna invest in real estate to build something that's bigger than me and my family. I wanna, like, give something to them that, I don't wanna have to worry about money, but they're gonna have to get hard work instilled in them. So a lot of What's your

Steve: plan for that?

Tommy: I'm probably gonna buy a a duplex to a four unit, put them in the put it in their name Mhmm. Or in a trust, whatever it is. And when they're when they're 18, give it to them. And then take I mean, I told her, like, you and the the hangover style. I'm gonna get that baby strap.

That that baby's walking flea infested houses with me, like, by by six months to a year. You know?

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: They're gonna see, what what what dad does for for a living.

Steve: Gotcha. You said you're in different masterminds that open certain doors. Like, what masterminds are you? What masterminds are you in?

Tommy: So I'm only in the family right now.

Steve: Okay.

Tommy: I would like to maybe do CG or something along those lines, but Yeah. When those opportunities arise

Steve: Pretty tough, man. Like Yeah. Ohio. There's just so many

Tommy: of you guys. I know.

Steve: So many of you guys. I know. I think Sean's in it.

Tommy: He is. Yeah.

Steve: And then, open doors. You're saying that were there other doors that were open since?

Tommy: No. Just like the do the businesses that we've been able to create, I mean, more of a leadership role now. I mean, just taking what we've learned and do training with all the people that are in in place now. I mean, we have a lot of, humans in the office. There's a lot of human capital.

There's a lot of things you need to be teaching. So teaching and leading is more my my seat now.

Steve: Did you see that when you first started?

Tommy: I would say yeah. Yeah. I've always been naturally, like, leader. I'm not really a great manager. Mhmm.

But I I like to lead from the front. I like to show and and actually do what I say we're gonna do and hold people accountable.

Steve: Were you the captain in your college team?

Tommy: Not on my college team. No. No. I was injured a lot. So and not as good as some of the guys.

When my roommate went top five, to the Columbus crew, he's just jacked. Mhmm. His name's La laas. Just jacked Ghanaian guy. I was like, La laas, if you're watching this, you're the man.

Yeah. But yeah.

Steve: Yeah. That wasn't in wasn't that in the cards? No. No. So, like, what is freedom, what freedom does real estate afford you?

Tommy: Obviously, financial freedom. I mean, everybody talks about the the long term holds, but we're so active in our business right now that, I mean, we're just kinda dumping that money back into Yeah. Our operation anyway. But I know that in the next five years, it's gonna open up doors. I it's a stepping stone.

Like, you just know know what you can do Mhmm. Or what businesses you can start or what you can get into until you're into that, upper echelon of, of you actually have some money, you have some wealth, and you have a little bit of options.

Steve: I mean, you're 30. Yeah. Like, it'd be where you're at right now. I mean, I started at 27. Mhmm.

And it was not a good time to start. Yeah. There are guys, you know, right now, colleagues that have hundreds of houses all paid off. It's awesome. Right?

Like and they still wholesale. That's crazy.

Steve: They don't even need to wholesale.

Tommy: That's crazy.

Steve: Right? But they still because this is this is their game. This is their fun. Yeah. Right?

So, like, yeah, it's it's it's crazy. I think about, you know, the Ford what's gonna afford you. Yeah. What is your why?

Tommy: It's always been my family Mhmm. Since since day one. I mean, working with my dad, that's where that was the hardest part about leaving inspections was, like, man, I get to I don't get to work with my dad anymore. Mhmm. I tell the story of so the the reason why I really decided to go all in on real estate was I was 25.

So four years ago, 25, I was at a bachelor party for one of my buddies, college friends. I've been working for three years for my pops. I get a call from my mom, and my dad's fit. He's, like, jacked, and he's I've been work he my mom calls and say, hey. Dad's in the hospital.

You need to come home right now. Like, what's going on? He your dad had ten strokes. You need to get home. We don't know what's gonna happen.

Mhmm.

Steve: So I

Tommy: don't have the picture in front of me, but, I don't I don't tell this story a lot. But there is a CAT scan or an MRI of his brain, and there's white dots everywhere. And the the doctor was like, hey. If if this was a game of landmines, like that old computer game Mhmm. Where if you click and you hit a bomb, it could have been over.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: So as I was kinda digesting this and I was learning about real estate and I was getting into it, I I was like, man, like, life there's definitely more to life than getting up and working every day. Like, you have to provide for your family. Yes. But you have to be smart with that time

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And do something that can compound without you being there, which is real estate investing. So that was, like, the the moment of, like, holy shit. This could be over, like, tomorrow. Like, I don't want him to work the next twenty years because, like, the hell, home inspection, if you don't build a business, any business, is hamster wheel. Mhmm.

Just working, working, working, working Yeah. Chasing the next the next dollar.

Steve: Finding You have to. New realtors and Yeah.

Tommy: Network. So that was the the giant moment of, like, holy shit. The guy that we all thought was invincible was always coach of our team, five kids, now always smiling, always laughing, never really angry. Like, oh my god. This is this is insane.

Yeah. So that was the the big moment, and then family has just always been, important to me. COVID happened. And like I said, I'm the, I'm the stubborn one of the family. My family was like, you gotta get the vaccine, do this and that and the other.

I never liked to, like, get political about it. I was like, no. Well, '26, '27, I'm healthy. Yeah. I've already had it two or three times.

Like, why would I do that? Yeah. And I'm trying to think logically. And they're like, well, you're gonna kill grandma. You're gonna do this.

So long story short, they they exiled me from the family for a little while. Mhmm. But during that time, our family all got together and got closer. So we all do we do family dinner every Sunday. Every Sunday, we go to my parents' house, except for my sister who lives in Cleveland.

So four kids there, my wife, the brothers, sisters, girlfriends, and boyfriends. We have dinner. We play card games. We laugh. We have fun.

Yeah. And we get ready for the week. And that's kind of our thing.

Steve: That's awesome.

Tommy: It's, it's super cool.

Steve: Yeah. Unfortunately, I had to. I had to I'm sorry. Not to be around grandma, but to be around my niece. Gotcha.

Right? So Gotcha. They're like the whole thing. Yeah. So I didn't ask you this earlier.

You have, the the home inspector experience. Mhmm. What was that dynamic like in working with realtors?

Tommy: Good question. I mean, you have to be a salesman, and I learned that pretty fast. My dad taught me that. He said because nobody wants a deal killer, inspector. Right?

So you have to be incredibly emotional intelligent. So you guys are in Phoenix. How old is the oldest house in Phoenix? It's not that old. Not that old.

Well, I'm in Columbus. There's 1,800 houses. So being able to tell somebody, I mean, they're buying a this is their biggest purchase of their life. Mhmm. And one, you're I'm a 24 year old kid, so they're already doubting me.

I don't know what I'm talking about. And then two, I have to tell them that this house has all the wrong things to it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And I don't wanna blow the deal for the realtor either. Alright. So you gotta be very smart and conscious of what you're saying. So you're not like, you have to inform them.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: But also not crush their dreams.

Steve: Yeah. To be aware without being, what's the word, negative.

Tommy: Yeah. So it taught me very early how to sell. And then also, like, it was just old school, like, door to door. I'll go to all all the offices. I would go for drop brochures.

I got CE certified.

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: I was teaching classes just so I can get in front of people and just and just and just be myself and and get in front of people.

Steve: Yeah. Because, I mean, as a realtor, we had a lot of home inspectors come through. Yeah. I just always felt bad because, like It's hard. We just crapped on them.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean,

Tommy: just being able to be play both sides is is very important because you get these, like, nerdy home inspectors that aren't complete know it alls.

Steve: Yeah. They they they don't stay in business.

Tommy: No. They don't. And you gotta be more of a of a people person and salesman than, unfortunately, a home inspector.

Steve: Yeah. No. For sure. Right? Because you were killing deals.

Yep. I mean, I had a guy that killed, like, four of my deals in a row. I was like, I can't I can't afford to have you inspect our property. Possible. Right?

You're you're costing me commissions at this point. Yeah.

Tommy: There's a couple of people in Columbus. I'm like, how do these realtors still hire these people?

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: It's like everything's in red. It's like, how are you making a report that's everything's in red?

Steve: I think for those realtors, that's the right fit. Yeah. For me, like, if I keep using you, I'm gonna have to get a job. That's right.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: And so taking that and then moving into this side Yep. Of the business where you are I imagine developing relations with realtors. Yep. How is that experience translated over?

Tommy: So the biggest thing has been, so when I was going on seller appointments for our deals, like, when you know more about the house than they probably do Mhmm. It's a good feeling. And, like, if you can school somebody on their house a little bit, they're like, oh, wow. This person really knows what they're talking about. Most wholesalers, they don't know that stuff.

No. So they're kinda just going with the flow, b s ing their way through it. But I knew the house, and I knew at this point pretty much how to sell, at least in person. Mhmm.

Steve: So You knew what was probably wrong with

Tommy: the house? Yeah. And I and I I'm pretty good with numbers too. So, like, what it makes you pretty unstoppable when you know all those things. So if I walk a deal from a wholesaler or even look at pictures and I can educate them once again, it's the same thing about with the inspections.

I'm educating them because most people will send you you'll send a deal to them, and well, these people respond back and be like, terrible deal. You're an idiot. I don't do that. You educate. So, hey.

This is why I'm thinking this. Mhmm. You missed this, this, this. Yeah. Educate so then they can go back and either talk to the seller or negotiate and bring it back to you.

Or the next thing they do, they learn and they bring it back. But if you just poop if you just poop on them, no. You're like, that's that no. I see that all

Steve: the time. I'm like, what are

Tommy: you guys doing?

Steve: Not building long term businesses. No. Yeah. So I this is something I say. I I I like your opinion on this.

K. Right? Because, again, I started off on the realtor side. K. So I got the realtor hat and now and then house buyer hat and reluctant flipper.

And so

Tommy: Still licensed?

Steve: Still licensed. Wow. Yeah. Got rid of the brokerage. Like, I I was a real estate broker, so I could have a loan of brokerage.

K. So the things I've said is you can smell about how much it's gonna cost to rehab this house when you walk in through the front door.

Tommy: That's right.

Steve: What are your thoughts on that?

Tommy: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's I mean, there's a lot of different smells. Yeah. But, I mean, if you do this long enough, I mean, walk through a house.

I mean, you can just you can kind of ballpark what what's what's something they're gonna call.

Steve: This is, like, this is light, medium, heavy. Like, the moment they open the door

Tommy: Yeah. Then it snaps

Steve: you in the face. Comes out. Like, you know how much rehab is gonna be. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. You don't have to, like, inspect. No. At least that's been my opinion. I've I've said this in our trainings, but you're actually

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, the I mean, that mixed with, like, age era of house. Mhmm. So, like, I already know, like, different areas in at least my market, different types of houses, different ages. So I already know going in what I what I should expect unless proven otherwise.

Right. So I know some areas that they're in the forties. They have foundation issues. So I'm going in. And other than that, I'm just like you said, smelling and seeing what I'm gonna get into and, you know, pretty much right away because people are nasty.

Very nasty. They're consistent. Consistent's a good word for it.

Steve: They're consistent. Right? Is you gonna smell really bad or is it gonna be clean?

Tommy: Man. And when I when I when I bring new people onto the on, they're just astounded. I'm sure you've been like this. Yeah. People really live like this.

I'm like, that's why somebody told me that I don't eat at company potlucks anymore.

Steve: Yeah. There's that. I mean, the only thing you can smell is is the foundation issues. Yeah. But, like, there's, you know, like, depending on the age of the homes, like, okay.

Aluminum wiring.

Tommy: Right.

Steve: Right? Or, we're gonna have to redo the main sewer line.

Tommy: Yep.

Steve: Like, I just know in this neighborhood Yep. We're gonna have to redo the main sewer line. Yep. You just know that going in.

Tommy: Absolutely.

Steve: What is your biggest struggle today?

Tommy: Biggest struggle today. And we've got a lot of things going on, and I I can bounce count

Steve: out all these hats.

Tommy: I can bounce around from thing to thing, and I find myself some days, like, at the office, I'm like, I didn't get anything done because I had so many things that I could have done. Mhmm. And I'm kinda bouncing and just peeking in.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: But, just getting really intentional about completing something important every day or a few things Mhmm. That move the needle instead of just kind of being there to be there, like, in spirit for the team.

Steve: Yeah. What are you doing to get better at that?

Tommy: Building the team. So the way we build our our entire staff from the very beginning and I can't take credit for this. He's been my business partner, because he knows what he wants. Mhmm. So letting people have autonomy within their roles.

So from the very beginning, letting people have say in the the choices that we make, the the way that we're doing things, and letting them make mistakes. Mhmm. Like, I will buy a deal if my acquisition team says this is a deal. Even if I know deep down, it is not a deal. I will I will lose money or break even on the house to teach them a lesson.

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: But it it lets them pull the trigger on things. Right. And they know that, like, we're not gonna freak out. We're not gonna fire them over it, but the autonomy to do that is is huge.

Steve: There's a lot of wisdom there. Yeah. Especially for a young guy.

Tommy: My my business partner went bankrupt when he was 23.

Steve: Okay.

Tommy: So he's taught me a lot of things as well.

Steve: Gotcha. So for those that are listening, they don't realize why you why you behave this way. Why do you act that way?

Tommy: I don't know, man. I've just been in a lot of rooms that people have done way bigger things than me, and I ask a lot of questions of them. So, like Mhmm. I mean, that's why you pay to be in masterminds. That's why you get around these types of people.

You you ask the right questions, and you get the right answers. Yeah. And that I mean, yeah. That's pretty much that's pretty much it.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, for me, I'd rather lose money on a deal than have you lose your confidence. Yeah. And now you gotta ask me every question.

Tommy: I hate that. Yeah. So that's, like, usually the first question when they're like, what do you like, hey. Can you tell me this? I'm like, what what do you think?

Mhmm. That's always my first question. It's like, hey. What do you think?

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: Tell me it.

Steve: How do you stay motivated?

Tommy: Obviously, I'm money motivated. I mean, if money doesn't motivate you, I think that that's kinda crazy. And then just it it varies from time to time, but now it's it's having a kid. It's like, I know when that little dude comes out, I wanna have the time Mhmm. To spend with him.

So I'm motivated to free that time up and make sure that my business can actually mostly run. I'm never gonna be this guy who, like, I can step out of my business and it runs. I can't. But I I need to be able to run it from holding a baby in my hand or have a new normal. You know?

Steve: Yeah. Oh, you're talking about the hangover thing? Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna see that on

Tommy: ID. Absolutely.

Steve: You'll be standing on a pile of junk Yeah. With the baby in the front.

Tommy: Yeah. She Maddie, she's behind me. She's gonna be laughing, but she'll know because I'll put it on my story that I fleece, and I'll be driving her car, and she'll call me. She's like, you better not get in my car with those fleas. And it's gonna be the same thing with the with, his name is gonna Beckham.

It's a boy. Yeah. It's gonna be the same thing. It's like, I saw you in that house. I saw the video.

You better not come home. You better watch him.

Steve: You gotta have the big sunglasses. Oh, absolutely. It's gonna be great. Gotcha. Alright.

How do you measure success?

Tommy: Oh, that's a good question. How do I measure success? You know, I'm probably not that great at that. It's always a moving target. Mhmm.

So it's one of those things I'm very ambitious. In the beginning, it was it it was vanity metrics. It was, oh, I wanna have a 100,000 followers. I wanna have a 100 units, all these things. My mom called me the other day randomly.

I mean, we talk every day because she's my realtor and, like and we we butt heads. We're very, very headstrong, both of us. And she called me, and she was like, Tom, I it's been, like, five years since we do this. We talk all the time. I just wanna let you know, like, I think this has slipped through the cracks how proud I am of you.

And I was like, fuck. That's insane.

Steve: Yeah.

Tommy: Like, I already knew that they were proud of me. It was all it was always kind of a given. Mhmm. But she looked me she she called me, and she's like, I I just feel bad that I've not I've not said it. Mhmm.

And I was like, damn. That's that that feels really good. And that, like, that was to me, I was like, damn. That makes me, that's successful to me. Like, my my family is somewhat good.

I'm not gonna say we're we're incredibly well off already, but, like, we're better than we were, and that's that's successful.

Steve: That's awesome. So is that something that you said your mom doesn't do that normally?

Tommy: Not really. Yeah. We butt heads a lot. I mean, she comes into the to the renovations and these everybody will laugh. She blows up every budget, like, right away.

She's like, what is this? This is Can lights everywhere. It's like a a a a a highway of of can lights. She's like, all this on, like, a $100,000 house. Mhmm.

It's like, mom, we can't do this. So we're butting heads and all that stuff, but it always works out.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: And, it was always just kind of a given. I mean, my dad, he every now and again, we'll go to a basketball game together, and he'll he'll text me after and be like, I don't say it enough, but I'm proud of you. Yeah.

Steve: But

Tommy: and I don't think it ever came really from my mom Mhmm. Which is which was cool. Yeah.

Steve: What is your superpower?

Tommy: I would say leadership, and just leading by action. So when I say something Mhmm. I'm gonna do it whether I fall and get back up, and my team really, really looks at me for that. Yeah. Like, when we say when we have a wholesale deal that nobody is buying because maybe I'm well and septic or and we just truly feel as a company that it's a deal Mhmm.

I'll buy it. I'll raise capital. I'll buy it. I'll put my we'll we'll put it out there and say, you know what? I'm not scared.

So leading from the front and, being there for, my people.

Steve: Gotcha. And what has been your biggest regret?

Tommy: Biggest regret? Oh, man. My biggest regret would be buying that first house with my uncle

Steve: and

Tommy: losing a $100, but also at the same time, I wouldn't be, I was 22, 23 years old. Mhmm. I thought my shit didn't stink. Yeah.

Steve: I I thought

Tommy: I was the man. Mhmm. I thought I was gonna do everything and everything.

Steve: Right.

Tommy: And it just right away said, like, this is this is real life. You're not this is not how it goes. So biggest regret and also biggest positive probably at the same time.

Steve: Yeah. It's just it's just tuition.

Tommy: It is. It is tuition.

Steve: Yeah. And what book have you gifted more than any other?

Tommy: Who Not How? Great book. I'm assuming you've read it. Yeah. Just that idea was change life changing.

I mean, being able to utilize virtual assistants, being able to kinda give a give a little bit of power up

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: To, run a business has been massively important to our growth.

Steve: We talked about this no. It was he was talking about right seats. Right? Hit the right people, right seats. So who know how, I think, is a great book.

I went through strategic coach Okay. Alright, with Dan Sullivan Okay. Long, long time ago. And I think that who know how for me is a little incomplete. K.

Why so? Because, yeah, you have to find the right guy. But there's, like, a lot of information about what the right guy looks like.

Tommy: That's true.

Steve: Right? Like, how do we identify what the right guy is? Right? So I think it's just it's a great concept. Yeah.

Great concept. Great place to start. Just like E Myth. Sure. Great place to start.

Agreed. But then you still gotta screw up a lot

Tommy: That's right.

Steve: To find the right who.

Tommy: Yeah. Right. Right?

Steve: So it's a good question, who not how. Yeah. But then the follow-up questions are I think are kinda little little left to be desired.

Tommy: Sure.

Steve: Yeah. But for sure, leadership. Right? Yeah. Like, you're you're you're leading people.

You're not leading tasks. Right. Right? You're not leading projects. You're leading people.

Yeah. That's that's definitely huge. How can someone get a hold of, the the community?

Tommy: Yeah. So you can get a hold of me, tommy har zero five on Instagram. I'm super active. I respond to all my DMs, and then realsidecommunity.com. Gotcha.

We've got people quitting their jobs all the time, going full time in real estate, flipping houses, changing their lives. So it's been it's been super fun to help as many people as we have.

Steve: That's awesome. So I want you to think about some last thoughts we'll leave everyone with. Again, guys, if you found this to be valuable, please subscribe. Help us create more millions. What are some last thoughts you'd like to leave everybody with?

Tommy: The last thought is typically, this stuff, it is gonna work in five to seven years.

Steve: Mhmm.

Tommy: You gotta keep your head down, make sure your goals are aligned, hit the pavement every day. You can't look at nothing's gonna change on a day to day basis. You gotta look at chunks of your life, ninety days or ninety usually, it's ninety days. And look back and see how far you've come. Mhmm.

So wake up, chip away at it, and, be relentless

Steve: in your actions every single day. That's awesome. Pig out of stubbornness.

Tommy: That's right. Pig out of stubbornness.

Steve: Thank you so much.

Tommy: Appreciate your time.

Steve: Thank you guys for watching. See you guys next time.

Tommy: Peace.