How Jimmy Vreeland Flipped 500+ Houses in 4 Years

Steve Trang: Everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. So we've got Jimmy Vreeland with Vreeland Capital. And he flew in from Saint Louis, Missouri to talk about how his company has flipped 500 plus turnkey houses in the last four years. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer.

And every month, we help hundreds of people buy more houses, deeper margins. If you want more if you want more info about that, DM me the word sales on Instagram. And I am on a mission to create 100 millionaires. And the information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, I promise that you will become one.

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And, we are actively hiring. So if you guys are looking for a job in the Phoenix market, do send us, do reach out, send us a message. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Jimmy to answer. You ready?

Jimmy Vreeland: Let's do this.

Steve: Alright. So first, I'm really excited to have you out here.

Jimmy: Yeah. Me too.

Steve: Especially all the energy you've got. So anyway

Jimmy: I'll try to contain it.

Steve: First question is what got you into real estate?

Jimmy: Like everybody else, Rich Dad Poor Dad. I read it, I read it in a hooch in the middle of Iraq in 2005.

Steve: So for less less sophisticated, what's a hooch?

Jimmy: It's like a a tent. A tent. So imagine me reading that little purple book Uh-huh. In the middle of the desert in a tent.

Steve: Alright.

Jimmy: And just even though I'm, like, in in a complete wasteland, I'm just, like, cash flow quadrant. Cash flow more than expenses. Like, this is, like, a new world to me.

Steve: What country were you in?

Jimmy: Iraq.

Steve: So you're in Iraq.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: So it's, like, it's, like, in the movies where, like, you're in a desert. Yeah. And there's wind's blowing in these tents, and there's little Jimmy in there.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Well, not little Jimmy, but Yeah. Jimmy is reading. Appreciate it for you, dad.

Jimmy: I would I would go on a a mission or go on a patrol, and then I'd the whole time, I'd be like, man, I gotta get back to that book. Yeah. It was like a whole whole other because before that book, I thought to be wealthy, you had to inherit it Mhmm. Be an athlete. And I I failed miserably at being that.

That was my first initial try.

Steve: Athlete?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Alright. I thought

Jimmy: I could maybe do it being an athlete. Didn't work out.

Steve: What sport?

Jimmy: Basketball and football.

Steve: Okay.

Jimmy: And so and then or be a genius inventor. Like, that's right when the iPod was coming out. Mhmm. So I was just like, I didn't recognize, you know, regular people could be become wealthy Right. Until I read that book.

And I was like

Steve: So in your mind, it was I mean, I guess, part of that book, it was army you're an army ranger

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: And that was, like, the path.

Jimmy: Well, I I knew I wasn't gonna make a career out of it. Mhmm. But I had no idea what I was gonna go go do.

Steve: Okay. So you read the book. Yeah. And then how did you start taking action right away? Or did you have to wait to get back?

Like, how did that all work?

Jimmy: So my mom and brother had actually sent it to me. They're like, we read this book. We're so excited of this. And, like, my mom is, like, very high energy person. My brother's a surgeon.

He's he's very cerebral. Mhmm. But so it it passed Timmy's smart guy test. So me and my mom were like, yeah. We gotta try this.

Yeah. And then I you know, with everybody Not exactly complaining yet, but talking about interest rates going up.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jimmy: They were like 7% then. And I'll never forget my mom who bought her first house in the eighties for a 12% interest rate. My mom's like, interest rates are 6%. We gotta buy. Mhmm.

And so I when you're deployed to you, I was getting jump pay, combat pay, hazardous duty pay, and I wasn't paying taxes. And you I was in the middle of desert, couldn't spend any money. Mhmm. So I was sending all that cash back to them, and then they were buying the houses.

Steve: Got it. So you guys jumped in right away? Yeah. Got it. How long until you got back to The States?

Or left service?

Jimmy: Oh, I would I probably had three years left.

Steve: Okay.

Jimmy: And so each every time I deploy, I buy two houses.

Steve: So your family was managing all this remotely? Yeah. Now this is 2005. Uh-huh. So you're buying these assets.

How did the the the the turnaround affect you?

Jimmy: They cash flowed the whole time. It didn't matter. Alright. We weren't flipping. We were we were so my brother was in medical school at the time.

Mhmm. And so we were we buy the houses and we'd rent them out to, like, three med medical students at a time.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: It it was, like, it was it was my mom's idea. It was genius. Mhmm. So we'd get three tenants instead of one.

Steve: Alright.

Jimmy: And so we would they cash the the crash or whatever didn't didn't really hit our radar at all.

Steve: And it's all in Saint Louis? Yeah. Okay. So, So, because we're in Phoenix market, we got to experience the entire roller coaster ride. I think we hit the highest Yep.

And the lowest. But across the Midwest, it seemed to be kinda like

Jimmy: There were, like, in the in, like, the d class and c class neighborhoods, you were buying stuff for 90, and it was really worth 30. So it hit it was weird. It hit the, like, c class areas, but the a's and b's, like, sure, everybody's value of their house went down Mhmm. But not catastrophically.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: And that's that's what I love about Saint Louis. I I this like, an investor will come in and be like, what's so good about Saint Louis? I'm like, nothing. It's it's exceptionally mediocre. It won't go too high in the booms and it won't go that high in the in the bus.

Steve: I don't think anyone describes mediocrity as exceptional.

Jimmy: You can be exceptionally mediocre.

Steve: That's phenomenal. So then what hesitations did you initially face or or or, you know, was there any kind of doubt that you experienced when you were first starting? Because you said your brother was a cerebral guy, so, like, you passed that test. Like, did you have anything else kinda get in the way?

Jimmy: Well, then we, like, we then we would have inner family squabbles on rehab budgets and things of that nature. Mhmm. And so, you know, my mom wanted quality and then I wanted to spend nothing and then my brother was generally in the middle. But I would say, you know, when you first get started with everybody, getting we got hosed by a couple contractors. We got, you know, all the mistakes where we bought the wrong houses, all that type of stuff.

Steve: So you guys you guys read the book. So people kinda approach things differently. Right? Like, some people will study, study, study. Some people will go to a seminar, right, which we don't necessarily encourage.

Right? Some people go that direction.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: You just kinda just started buying houses.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Alright. So, like, was there, like, a realtor involved, or, like, how did you start buying these houses?

Jimmy: Yeah. I mean, that was another mistake we made, like, you know, working with a realtor who would work with investors. Mhmm. And then that, but I I I'm a 10 quick start.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: I need to for those of you who don't know what the Colby test is, you got what is it? It's implementer, Quickstart, FactFinder, and

Steve: Follow through.

Jimmy: Follow through. And I am like a one on everything else except Quickstart. So I need about this much information, and I'm gonna do something.

Steve: Right. But you had the Cerebral brother, and he was, like, all all about it too? Yeah. Got it. So was it, like, a partnership between

Jimmy: the three of you, or how did

Steve: that work? Like,

Jimmy: it was an LLC and all that stuff.

Steve: Got it. Okay. So, what was your first major struggle or challenge in buying these houses?

Jimmy: So that one, you know, it was kinda, like, passive and, like, I had another job and I had a other focus, like, the big so then I came home from the army, and then the crash happened. Like, I got out of the army the day Bear Stearns went under. And I'll just remember, like like, the guy I worked for at the time was like, you can't get out. You shouldn't get out. The economy is gonna crash.

And I was like, no. It's not. I'll be fine. That was

Steve: my same attitude. Yeah. And

Jimmy: I didn't

Steve: Turns out

Jimmy: We were everybody was alright. Yeah. And so it was getting them getting in the the corporate job and getting in the corporate world and still buying. That that was a struggle.

Steve: So explain to me, you're doing well. You're buying these properties. You're cash flowing. Yep. Why not jump straight into just buying more properties?

Jimmy: I didn't know wholesaling existed. I didn't know flipping full time. You know, back then, you saw, you know, A and E flip this house. Mhmm. Like, there was a guy, I think he was in Charleston, and I I distinctly remember from my last deployment in Afghanistan, like, emailing him, like, I am Jimmy Vreeland.

I would like to work for your company. And he never emailed me back. So

Steve: Okay. So I guess the cash flow wasn't enough.

Jimmy: And Yeah. I mean, we had, like, eight rentals by the time I got out of the army.

Steve: And,

Jimmy: I didn't understand there was a thing that was wholesaling. I didn't understand I understood there was flipping full time, but I thought it was too risky because it was 2008.

Steve: Yeah that's understandable.

Jimmy: Yeah, it never quite frankly it never crossed my mind, and I think there was, you know because you spent time in the corporate world too right?

Steve: Mhmm, yeah.

Jimmy: I kind of thought it was go to school, get a good job, make a bunch of money, and then maybe one day you can start your own thing.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: So it wasn't even my hitting my radar that you could do that.

Steve: Got it. So what did you, what was your corporate job?

Jimmy: I sold, medical equipment like knee and hip replacements.

Steve: Okay. How'd you do there? Good. Alright.

Jimmy: Like we did well.

Steve: Better than you did in the army?

Jimmy: Yeah. I mean, you mean cash wise?

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Absolutely.

Steve: Alright. So how long did you continue doing that before you, pivoted back into real estate?

Jimmy: Eight years. But the whole time I was picking up rentals. Okay. So I would get a bonus check, pick up a rental. Get a bonus check, do a private loan, get a bonus check, pick up, you know, pick up a private rental.

But the problem was I was reading everything Kiyosaki then Mhmm. Did because I did get out of the army. I did come home, and we did do a weekend seminar. And I I can't say that the weekend seminar didn't work. Right.

But if you ask my mom, she's like, those sons of bitches, they took our money. They were just trying to sell us into a higher level program. But then, like, I saw lease options there for the first time. Yeah. And so I I was able to get enough out of the weekend seminar to stay actionable.

Steve: Weekend seminar. So we're talking like a $100, not like $25. No.

Jimmy: Like, you know, I went to the Thursday thing and I got my free lunch. Mhmm. And then I gave them the $7

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: And showed up for the weekend thing. Mhmm. I think we bought the coaching because I had like a yeah. I had a I had a, you know, a rich dad coach for, like, six months.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: And he just watched us fill out our spreadsheets and do nothing.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, there's different ways of coaching. So that was one way of doing it.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: So you're you're you're working. You're having a lot of success here. What was the reasons if because by this point, you should have seen that there was a way to make money here. And I'm not saying I did the right way. I kinda call it, like, my transition to becoming a realtor kinda like my last decade.

Because, like, I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, I was like, oh, I should buy passive income. And then I became a real estate agent. Like, that's not what the book said at all. Right. But I got into real estate to make active income.

So did you

Jimmy: Oh, well, he also says in the book, and then he was a Vietnam Pilot. So I saw similarities. He was a veteran. He fought a war. I I was a veteran for a war.

And he's like, he went to Rich Dad and he went to Xerox. Mhmm. And he learned how to sell.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: And so I knew getting out that I wanted to do a sales job. And then there was a when you get out of the military, there's like head hunters who find you jobs. Mhmm. And there was like, hey, your brother's in med school and you wanna sell. And there's a West Point football guy who's running a sales department in St.

Louis. You wanna do that? I was like, let's do it. And that all I needed to know was I've learned how to sell and then, you know, my brother would tutor me to

Steve: whatever

Jimmy: I needed to know.

Steve: So what was the you said eight years you worked in that career. Yeah. And I I keep harping on this because there's a couple different things. Right? Because there's a lot of people that listen to the show that actively have jobs, and they're like, when's the right time to quit?

But b, also, you're a quick start.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: So usually, you don't need much information

Jimmy: Right. To pivot. Oh, well, okay. So I will do the timeline real quick. Yeah.

2008, get out of the army. 2009, meet Susie. 2010 or 2009, meet and marry sue 02/2009 meet and Mary Susie. 2010 Maria came along. In December, January 12 Bubba.

'14 Tommy and then '16 Johnny.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: So the family was growing. Mhmm. And, and then I in my mind, I was like, I had a strike number. When my cash flow equaled my expenses, then I could quit. And that I so the you know, if you have people who are still have w two jobs Mhmm.

W two jobs are phenomenal if you wanna be an investor because you can get all I had to do was breathe. I had to fog a mirror and I had to go to mister banker, hey, see my w two? And they're like $100 for you. So I I kept the w two going as well, so I could get bank financing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jimmy: Because you gotta get your 20 loans from the government. Then I could go to all the commercial lenders and get I struggled to get funding once I quit my w two.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: And so I was 2016, we worked up to 60 rentals.

Steve: How many? 60. 60?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: That was, financed by some sort of bank or another?

Jimmy: Yes.

Steve: That's pretty impressive.

Jimmy: Well, I mean, yeah. Yeah. And it, like, it got hot and heavy, like, thirteen, fourteen, 15. Because the corporate world, like, I had stopped growing, I had stopped learning, I was trading my time, and, like, I had I had checked out. And when I'm checked out, like, I'm really

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: You know, you had a you had a you know, your story of checking out is very amusing to me. So I think you can empathize.

Steve: I can definitely relate. So, you wanted to get a sales job. That was what Kiyosaki said to go to go do. What valuable skills did you learn at that company that, found you found useful later on in your career?

Jimmy: Like, selling is a skill. Right. And persuading people is a skill. And then my clients were high net worth individuals. Mhmm.

So I was able I understood what their pains were. I understood what their problems were. So it was so easy for me to raise private money.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Because I'd be with a doctor all day, like, doing knee replacements and he'd just be he'd be bitching about the IRS. And he's like, why am I doing this? I don't even make any money till it's, like, 03:00 in the afternoon.

Steve: And I

Jimmy: was like, you're right. But maybe if you let me some money to go buy some real estate, you could make some money. Yeah. And then that that's how I started getting, like, my first funding.

Steve: Got it. So, I heard an interesting story. Right? Yeah. From Collective Genius.

We're both members in Collective Genius. Yep. That, basically, you guys were supposed to be quitting, but there was something holding you back. Yeah. And there's one thing that was holding you back.

What was it?

Jimmy: So this is a story about once I started getting, like, once I got to, like, the fiftieth rental, I started getting antsy. Mhmm. And then we had when we had our fourth baby, Johnny, I'm I had a substitute helping me with the the surgery, and the kid messed up. And so I got, like, my new baby in my arms, and the doctor's just calling me, like, reaming me for this. And this is what I'll always love about my wife.

Like, fourth kid, we had four kids under five, and she's just like, you should really quit your job now. Yeah. And so, I'm sorry. What was your

Steve: What what was the story that that got you to quit?

Jimmy: So, you know, things are going well and but, like, Stryker did such a good job of creating a meathead environment where, like, a competitive environment. And so you would work all year. Sure. You would make a bonus and then, yeah, 50% of it would get taxed, but then I'd get the plaque at the end of the year. I'd get the sales award.

And so so Susie, like Johnny's like three months old and then I'm coming home like dog tired and I'm I'm I'm bitching about striker and she's like, why don't you quit? And I was like, I like the plaque. And she's like, what? And I'm like, because I I mean this was a conscious thought I have, you know, like you can be embarrassed about a lot of the conscious thoughts you have. I'm like, but I like competing.

I You wanna win? Yeah. I wanna win. And then like, I liked winning. Yeah.

And I liked getting up on stage and being the the sales guy. And she's like, why don't you quit? Why don't you, you know, she's like driving me to quit. Like like, you know, she starts challenging my manhood at that point. And I'm just like, I like the Plex.

And then she's like, what? I I was like, I like the Plex. I like the sales award. She's like, can, can you use what kind of language can you use on this podcast?

Steve: I mean Is

Jimmy: it family friendly? I'll do I'll do it. Just go for it.

Steve: You can do what you gotta do.

Jimmy: She's like, I will give you a freaking plaque. I will do whatever it has to do, but just send in your resignation. And so I was like, you promise? Like like you're not messing with me. Right?

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And so every at the end of every year now, I get a a plaque from the family, and they go up on the wall. But I didn't I wouldn't take that corporate jump until I could get my plaques.

Steve: I love, like, the the symbol the symbolism. But you're right, though. Like, the competitive nature, especially in sales. Right? Like, we all want the plaque, the belt, the award, whatever things we put on our above our desk, whatever, like, it means something.

Yeah. Right? So but I love I love that story.

Jimmy: If it's you and me playing basketball before CG Mhmm. Like, why the whistle's blown? Like, I will do anything to win. I don't care. Like, we'll be friends afterwards, but Yeah.

I want to win.

Steve: Right. That's how that's why I picked it the last time we played. Yeah. So on that note, what I I thought was funny because you posted this in the Facebook group. So you bought something to get better at basketball.

Jimmy: Oh, yeah. The dribble up.

Steve: How old are you?

Jimmy: I'm 42, but my Me too. My handle still needs some work. So Now granted, I I have an 11 year old and a 10 year old and a seven year old who play. I I want them to encourage to do homework basketball. Mhmm.

Because, like, when we were kids, you had to, like, put a blindfold on and, you know, I would dribble around chairs. We didn't have technology to get better with your handle.

Steve: Right. So I'm actively looking for a basketball coach to someone that just can help me work on my game, but I can't find anyone.

Jimmy: There's not, like, some ASU somebody who played for ASU or something now?

Steve: There's nobody that will work with old people. Like, they're they're all, like, if they're any good, they're working with, like, AAU kids or something like that. Yeah.

Jimmy: Get one of the AAU kids to work with you.

Steve: Yeah. There you go. So tell me about after you took the leap. Did you have any struggles after you took the leap?

Jimmy: Yeah. That was the worst time of my life.

Steve: Really? It was. Alright. Well, let's talk about that.

Jimmy: I thought so, you know, my whole paradigm had been shaped by rich dad, poor dad. Right? Cash flow equal expenses, boom, you're wealthy. And that's just

Steve: Financial freedom. You don't have to worry about anything anymore.

Jimmy: Yeah. You're financially free. And I'm like, woah. My worries didn't start until I did that. Yeah.

So, stopped with 60 rentals, and then, you know, I had to start hiring a team. I had to start building a team. And even though I played on teams in college and played on teams in the military, I'd been a a sole individualist as a as a corporate sales guy. So, Grant, I had a background to fall back on to start building a team and leadership skills and everything, but it was I thought I would, like, I thought I would quit my job, be financially free, and then, you know, the rentals and business would take care of themselves.

Steve: Yeah. And Seems like a natural conclusion.

Jimmy: Yeah. And then straight line success from here on out. Yeah. That I've come up with some dumb ideas in my day, but that, quite frankly, was the dumbest.

Steve: So how was it a dumb idea?

Jimmy: It's it's just not how it works.

Steve: But, I mean, like, what was, like, the first hiccup or the first speed bump once you quit your job?

Jimmy: Oh, the first?

Steve: Or the first major one?

Jimmy: Yeah. Probably so I had a partner at the time.

Steve: Alright. And

Jimmy: so he was doing most of the operations, and I was just supposed to be the money guy. Right? Mhmm. And so when we had that we had a business divorce, that was a major hookup. Like, I'm gonna have to learn how to do acquisitions.

I'm gonna have to do operations because I was just raising the money and then selling the houses. So having to dig in and learn that part of the business, like, that was very scary to me. And at this point, I had, like, $4,000,000 worth of private debt. So I had to figure it out.

Steve: I had to to make it work? Yes. So did you know this guy before you quit your job?

Jimmy: Yeah. He he I did. I started doing private loans with him in the beginning.

Steve: Okay. So he had some sort of track record? Yeah. And then you partner with him. He was supposed to run operations.

You're raising capital, and then you guys are splitting everything fifty fifty? Yeah. Okay. And then where exactly did Duff go off the rails?

Jimmy: He it's kind of another funny story, but we were out, wakeboarding all day. And then that night, he's like, oh, I'm gonna move to California on Monday.

Steve: So, basically, over the weekend Yeah. He quit.

Jimmy: Yeah. And so, like, this sounds like he he did something nefarious. He did something bad. Like, it was me. I could have seen the writing on a wall.

I could have been doing other things. I could have been checking into acquisitions and operations and learning it. Yeah. I was on the hook for that money. Like, I should have been doing that.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: Like, this the whole business of yours, like, it's on me.

Steve: Okay. So what lessons did you take from that? Like, on top of, like, you know, learning it, like Yeah. Any leadership lessons, management lessons from there?

Jimmy: That you have to lead, you have to manage. And and once I stopped trying to run away from that responsibility, it became so much fun. Yeah. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I now I I love it. Like, I I love the team we've built.

And I I think I had some, like, residual stuff from the army. We're like, oh, man. I don't wanna lead again. Last time I led, I was getting shot at. So Well,

Steve: that's what I was about to ask because, you know, you and I, both have learned from, the SEAL team leaders.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Right? And you probably had a lot of similar training back when you were an army ranger.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: So you already have the leadership training within you. You didn't want did you think it didn't translate? Did you not want to take advantage

Jimmy: of it? I didn't wanna use I didn't wanna use it.

Steve: Okay.

Jimmy: I was just I was just, running running away from it.

Steve: Okay. Is there a reason behind it? Is there a sore behind it? Or

Jimmy: I think part of it is the whole, like, rich dad paradigm that you're financially free. You're done. You shouldn't have to do this anymore. Like, I struggled in the army. I struggle in the corporate world.

I'm free now.

Steve: Yeah. So I and I can totally relate to that. You know, like, my my background, you know, went to ASU engineer, got my graduate degree, right, in electrical engineering. And I remember, like, when I was at Intel, they was like, hey, Steve. You know, there's this seven habits of highly effective workshop.

Seven habits of highly effective people workshop. You should go attend this. Like,

Jimmy: why? Right.

Steve: I already did my time. I already did what I've studied all I had to study. I learned everything I need to learn. Now is the time to just kinda, like this is this next chapter of my story or chapter of my life.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: It's not how that works.

Jimmy: No. It is just and then what I have found that it's just not fun

Steve: that way.

Jimmy: It's so much more fun if you just you know, we could talk about, well, the the way I started first embracing it was Daniel Marcos at CG. Mhmm. Where he shows that, hey, if you wanna scale to a different level, I you know, you you look on Instagram, scaling means like a rocket ship you're gonna go.

Steve: Yeah. It's easy.

Jimmy: Yeah. It's just like you just gotta put to the work. You just gotta grind.

Steve: Alright.

Jimmy: But really what it means when you scale, you you dip. You go into a valley of death for a while. And soon as I just, like, one, saw that that's straight line success is never possible.

Steve: It's a big lie.

Jimmy: Yeah. And that you valley of the death or go into your valleys of death or, rights of passage. Mhmm. I just my whole paradigm shifted.

Steve: When did you first learn that?

Jimmy: About valley of death? Mhmm. 2,018, q three meeting at Collective Genius.

Steve: Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, because he spoke about it then. So for those that are listening, can you elaborate a little bit on what the valley of death means?

Jimmy: Yeah. So it's it's, scaling up the book scaling up Verne Harnish. Right? Mhmm. It's a it's a graph in, like, the first or second chapter.

But if you want to scale up, you're going to go into a valley of death first. You're going to whether it be a a revenue dip or a personal challenge, psychological challenge, not knowing if you can do something.

Steve: Big profit dip.

Jimmy: Yeah. You're going you're going to dip. Yeah. And and so at the time, I probably, the business divorce happened once, we started really getting into turnkey flipping. And so zero to 30 flips were awesome.

Mhmm. I was just like, oh my god. I'm a genius. I finally figured this out. It's we're gonna but

Steve: There was I think Kiyosaki said it was gonna be. It's just really my success.

Jimmy: I was just like, it just had to keep going. Yeah. And then, then we're like, alright. Well, we wanna instead of doing 30 flips a year, we wanna do a 100. So let's get a project manager.

Let's get some more crews. Let's start that level of scale absolutely. And that's not even really scaling. That's just trying harder. Mhmm.

It's doing

Steve: more work.

Jimmy: Yeah. That broke me because I couldn't coordinate action at that level at that point.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And so then when the partner left, I'm just like, how

Steve: Oh, he left in the middle of the valley of death.

Jimmy: Because he thought we were a straight line success too that I can check out now.

Steve: Okay. Yeah. Gotcha.

Jimmy: And so it was just and so I talked to Larry about it at SEAL Team Leaders, but the pressure of having to make it work is the debt we are in. And then the fact that I didn't see it that we are still going getting better, but we were getting better. But we were failing so hard every day. But we were still flipping houses, but then I didn't understand cash management. And so it's just like every punch in the face that I was gonna get, I I was taking all at once.

Right. And then I I I wasn't able to articulate till I talked to Larry about it, but I'm like, dude, I had not felt that bad since Afghanistan. Mhmm. And I had felt guilty about saying that. And I was like, I don't mean to be disrespectful to veterans.

And, like, I only could really say this to Larry. And he's like, Jimmy, that is a very common experience. And he's like, at least overseas, you had your team, you had your guys. Like, it sounds like you just had you and Susie during all this. Yeah.

And it that's true. But it Right. And I felt guilty for a long time saying that feeling is comparable to combat, but it just is what it is.

Steve: Right. Well, I mean, for you. Right? Just as a human being, like, this is what you can best relate it to. I don't think there's anything to feel bad about.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: This is what you can compare it to.

Jimmy: And I but I'm just like, how can business feel like combat? And I I was just like, I don't know, but it does.

Steve: Yeah. So was that when you say then of all the different challenges, that was the the biggest, challenge as far as, like, the Valley Of Death?

Jimmy: Yeah. That was that that was rock rock bottom.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: Oh, and at the same time, because I was on straight lines of sex to get rich, we're doing a $150,000 rehab on our house.

Steve: I mean, if you're gonna do it, you gotta do it right. Right. Yeah. Go go big. So If

Jimmy: I'm gonna mess something up, I will mess it all up. I'm not just gonna make a few little mistakes.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, that's the same exact philosophy I subscribe to. My wife doesn't agree to it agree with it, but, you know, I've I've kinda shared with her. She doesn't like this definition. I've always said, like, it's the husband's job to go find trouble and the woman's job to help him keep him out of it.

Yeah. She doesn't like it, but

Jimmy: Listen. I

Steve: It's kinda where we're

Jimmy: at. She's having fun.

Steve: I think she's having fun. Right. So what were some other because you're talking about, like, you're getting punched in all these different directions.

Jimmy: It was such a weird thing because I was doing what I'd always said I wanted to do, and I was getting better at it. It was just painful getting better.

Steve: Mhmm. So what would you say were the top two or three lessons you learned in that experience?

Jimmy: That one, don't feel guilty that it's part of the game. And I'll never forget, like, going to CG when I was really deep down in it. I wouldn't I would clam up. I wouldn't talk to anybody about it. And then I think, like, two meetings later, like, I came clean about everything we've been going through.

And I could see, like, like Micah's, you know, and Mark, all the guys I look up to like looking at me like, this idiot finally gets it. That this is part of the game that you have to run to the valleys of death. Mhmm. And then at the same time, I was reading principles, and I learned about hero's journey. And so my whole paradigm just just shifted.

Steve: Right. Yeah. It's a this is such, like, a ridiculous comparison, you know. But I when I when I was growing up, my younger brothers always watched, like, Dragon Ball z. You ever watch this stuff?

Yeah. Right? I I kinda compare, like, the valley of deaths with all the little mini deaths that the the the Saiyans go through. Right?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Like, they die and they come back stronger, or they get closer to death, they come back stronger. They come closer to death, they come back stronger. I kinda feel like this valley of death is, like, it's this test, and you get stronger. Take another test and get stronger. So you went through how many valleys of death?

Jimmy: How many am I going through right now?

Steve: I don't know. Because I I because the the chart that Daniel showed, there was, like, four. Yeah. Right? There were different tiers.

Jimmy: Yeah. So, But, like, have you ever read Antifragile? I

Steve: have not read Antifragile.

Jimmy: Oh, my god. That is that so I'm and they all and when I was going on reading, like, all these great books Mhmm.

Steve: But the

Jimmy: concepts of antifragile is everybody knows what fragile is. Right? Yeah. Like, you get hit and you break. Mhmm.

And then robust means, like, you're tough. Like, you can take a punch in the face and come back up.

Steve: You get an iron jaw.

Jimmy: But now anti fragile is your jaw gets stronger as it gets hit.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: And so Nassim Taleb's stance is that humans are inherently anti fragile.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: It's just like you were talking about Dragon Ball z. Yeah. Like, the more the more as long as long as the pressure doesn't break you Mhmm. Like, you do plyometrics. Right?

Steve: Used to.

Jimmy: But plyometrics make you stronger.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: Now if you did plyometrics from a two story building, it would break you.

Steve: Oh, yeah.

Jimmy: So you gotta stay in that zone where you can still keep getting stronger.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And you won't get broken.

Steve: Yeah. So that makes total sense. So I've noticed that in some of the presentations you've done, there's some strategic coach references. Yep. So I went back into strategic coach, I wanna say, like, May '18 into, like, February '19.

I think it was kinda like the the four events I went to.

Jimmy: Okay.

Steve: When did you go through strategic coach?

Jimmy: 1718.

Steve: 1718. Yep. So it seems like you took a lot of lessons there.

Jimmy: Absolutely.

Steve: What were, I guess, what were some of the big eye opening events or eye opening items for you in going through that?

Jimmy: 80% approach, Colby test, and, gap in the game.

Steve: Gap in the game. So I think gap in the game is something that a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with.

Jimmy: Absolutely.

Steve: Can you elaborate on that?

Jimmy: So Dan Sullivan, famous entrepreneur's coach, he has a concept called the gap in the gain. And he learned it because he was dealing with high energy, hard driving entrepreneurs all the time, and they all seem miserable. Like, none of them were happy.

Steve: And we create masterminds to to kinda share our stories.

Jimmy: Yeah. And and so he he came to this conclusion that they are comparing themselves to their ideals and that they are not looking back to see where they came from. So Yeah. The gap in the game, real simple, is never compare yourself to against others or ideals and always measure from where you from where you started to where you are.

Steve: Yeah. And I see that, like, even my own personal life. You know? Like, my wife and I, we have these, you know, conversations where, like, she's looking like, you know, we haven't hit these goals yet. And I always had to say, but if you could just look backwards to see where we came from and look at the things we have accomplished, Let's not compare ourselves to what other people are at.

Let's compare it to where we were. Right. Right? I mean, like, she still has PTSD from 2007. Right?

Jimmy: Really?

Steve: Because I was a realtor Yeah. In 2007. It was not a good time.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Right? So there were a lot of financial issues, so she still struggles with that. So I always have to go back to so I think the gap and the gain is true for, entrepreneurs. And maybe even for yeah.

Jimmy: I

Steve: was gonna say maybe even for, like, people that are always comparing themselves with trying to keep up with the Joneses.

Jimmy: I think I think the whole country in 2022 is in the gap. Yeah. Like, everybody is comparing themselves or society to this ideal Mhmm. And not looking back for how far we came from.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I think there's that. And I think also, again, going back to SEAL team leaders. Right? The conversations we've had with Larry Yatch, and he's always talking about, like, you guys are trying to measure yourself against some success that's unattainable

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Or not sustainable. So let's see what else is there. So you've done 500 turnkey flips in four years. Yeah. So if we were to, you know I wanted to work with with Jimmy, and I wanna start doing some turnkey opportunities.

How would I get started?

Jimmy: If you wanted to buy turnkey or you

Steve: wanted to buy it

Jimmy: in turnkey?

Steve: If I wanted to buy it and flip 500 turnkeys. Right? Like, what were some things I would have to do along the way to get to that kind of scale? Besides the, you know, the misery, like, or some lessons.

Jimmy: So you're talking about not buying turnkeys? You're talking about flipping turnkeys.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: What would you have to do? Yeah. So you'd have to have a buyer's base. Mhmm. So I guess you're quite as soon as you go zero

Steve: So when you have 30 to a 100

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Where were some key steps that you took to go from 30 to a 100?

Jimmy: So we I partnered with my two partners in our education business, Cash Flow Tactics. Mhmm. And so we started providing education as to why turnkey real estate works. So I if you were going to sell turnkeys, you need to educate your client base. I would say that is that is the number one thing.

Because of the education company, we have always had a, a ton of buyers.

Steve: So,

Jimmy: So you need to be able to understand why investment real estate actually works. Mhmm. And so, you know, we did a I studied a bunch while I was in the corporate world, I was bunching studying a bunch of economics, studying everything I led in economics led me to real estate.

Steve: Yeah. So one thing I saw, it was, like, I think an old post of yours, was you're holding the the Russell Brunson two comma club, I think.

Jimmy: Yep.

Steve: Right? And this is directly related to building a client base? Yes. Alright. Can you talk about that, what that Two Comma Club is and how you got there and how that turned into a client base?

Jimmy: Sure. So the Two Comma Club, my two partners, Ryan Lee and Brad Gibb in Cash Flow Tactics, they are part of, Russell's highest level mastermind. And so the Two Comma Club is an award you get if you sell a million dollars worth of anything through any funnel. Mhmm. And so we sold a million dollars worth of education through our Cash Flow Tactics funnel and, went to their big event and was able to get, up on stage with them.

Mhmm. But we've it's a passion of ours. It's fun, but we educate people on why how to get wealthy on Main Street instead of Wall Street.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And so there's a little bit economics, personal finance, and then what we call the vault. And turnkey real estate is like the cherry on top.

Steve: Got it. So your the course is basically educating someone how to get wealthy without waiting the thirty years of working.

Jimmy: Without oh my god. Traditional financial planning is so bad.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So we'll get into that. Yeah. Sound really passionate about that.

We'll get into that.

Jimmy: Oh my god.

Steve: So, so relying on on working for thirty years and relying on Wall Street. It was just another way for just regular, you know, Joe Blow to to become wealthy. Yeah. Alright. So you mentioned that traditional financial planning is not so great.

Let's talk about that. It's

Jimmy: where do you wanna start?

Steve: What do you hate most about it?

Jimmy: Man, that's is I hate that it's only first order thinking. I can't stand first order thinking. Like, I can't stand, like, you see something on the news, and then that must be how it's gonna be.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jimmy: Like, I like to see something on the news. Like, remember last year when it was, like, oh, nobody can get houses. Right?

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: Yeah. Right. Mhmm. Like, that made me just get harder in the acquisitions because the second and third order effects was that there were a bunch of tired landlords trying to get out of the game.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: And you just had to find them.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And so that my problem with I don't like simple thinking. I don't like too complex thinking. Mhmm. I don't like but I don't like robotic thinking.

Steve: Or reactive.

Jimmy: Yeah. I like react but, like, the whole myth that you can go to school, get a good job, pay into a qualified plan for forty years, and then skip off in the distance is about as dumb as idea as you can go to school, get a good job, buy 60 rentals, and skip off into the distance.

Steve: Yeah. So, why doesn't that work? Like, why doesn't the traditional final financial planning work?

Jimmy: Well, because it involves no leverage, and it involves tax deferment and not tax advantages.

Steve: Got

Jimmy: it. But I I think the short answer is because there's no other people's money involved.

Steve: Got it. Because because you can't leverage other people's resources to help you grow your grow your wealth.

Jimmy: Yeah. Your wealth production is you and a team of your financial planner. There's no coordination of action. There's no leveraging other people's capital.

Steve: Yeah. Not to mention a financial planner that actually has no vested interest in your success.

Jimmy: Well, he's just a sales guy.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: It was like so like, I would read the white papers when I was selling, like, a knee replacement.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And, like, I would under try to understand the biology, and I'd call my brother and be like, explain this to And then I'd try to be really smart to the doctors and be like, you know, the circumference of this knee will do this for you, and your client will have these benefits. And then you're like, come on, Jimmy. Like, come on. You know? Yeah.

I I just used you because you show up and, like, you're fun to be around. I'm like, okay, doc. But now a financial planner says, you know, now this stock is projected to do this over the next twenty years. Everybody believes it like gospel.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: And so I never I was like, wait, this guy's a sales guy and not full of crap? Like, I'm a sales guy, and I know when I'm full of crap. And these guys won't tell me when they are, when they're out of their league. So I was never

Steve: I was just like, this

Jimmy: won't work.

Steve: One of the really big eye opening, books for me was, from Tony Robbins, Money Master the Game. Mhmm.

Jimmy: And he

Steve: talked about how much how much of a massive scam the the the mutual funds and index and all these other things.

Jimmy: And I I don't think it's a scam.

Steve: I think once you read that book some more, you'll you'll

Jimmy: I I read the book. But when you choose this and you only think in the first order

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: You're not getting scammed. You're just choosing not to look.

Steve: Well, I I think for me, the biggest thing was the fact that they weren't sharing with you that they were taking one or 2% off the top every year.

Jimmy: Well, it's in the fine print.

Steve: It's not in the fine print.

Jimmy: Oh, really?

Steve: That's what he says on the book.

Jimmy: Right? It is a scam.

Steve: In the book, it's not in the fine print. So they're just taking one or 2% off the top, and then, so you're literally handicapping your growth, year over year. Right? One or 2% over forty years is substantial.

Jimmy: Well, we're talking especially when it's tax deferred, not tax free.

Steve: Right. So let's go back to what we were talking about earlier, the, going from 30 to a 100. Right? What were some other things in in in big lessons for someone that's listening, you know, the if they're in turnkey or maybe they've done, like, a few.

Jimmy: Or just even if they're doing a 100 regular flips. Yeah. Cash management. Oh my god. Oh, yeah.

Here's another here's another, abyss. So, Brad, my partner in cash tactics, he's a CPA, and he he had to, like, sit me down and, like, teach me taxes and how they worked. Mhmm. So, like, house, like, 60. I'm, like, I'm crushing it.

Like, I'm getting rich. And he's, like, oh, you put any money away from taxes? I'm, like, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a business owner. Kiyosaki says we don't pay taxes.

And so I was taking profits from flips and putting them into the next flips and then some of the profits into rentals, which was the government's money. And so all my tax liability was in projects and in rentals, and I didn't understand that. I thought they were business expenses. Mhmm. I didn't understand the difference between a a capitalized expense and a business expense.

Yeah. That took me two days to understand, and I was so angry. But

Steve: At who?

Jimmy: Me.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: For not I'm like, I'm not stupid. Mhmm. Like, but the fact that I did not figure that out. And so cash management, you know, profit first, having money set aside for taxes, and then, you know, cash management still is, something I struggle with today, like, learning it and even though we're doing profit first. But I what would you tell people?

Watch your cash?

Steve: I think it's one of the most counterintuitive things. Like, my brain hurts every time I have to go through this. Right?

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Because, like, I took 50,000 profit here, which is income, and I put it over here as a down payment over here. That's not an expense. It's doesn't matter if it came out of my bank account.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: That is not an expense. No. Right? And that's the part that I struggled with for the first couple of years.

Jimmy: That's what I was trying to describe when I realized I was a $100 in debt to the IRS.

Steve: Yeah. Like, what do you mean it's an expense? I needed that to buy a house. Like, no. You just traded one form of asset for another form of asset that was not expensed.

Like, okay. Well

Jimmy: So in your balance sheet, you still have your 50 k of profit.

Steve: You just

Jimmy: don't have the cash. Yeah.

Steve: So that 50 k profit went from the cash account into this particular house account.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Right? That's a different asset. So it's on a balance sheet. It's not on the profit and loss.

Jimmy: I just I remember Brad, like, drilling this into my head. Like, he's like, Jimmy, do 10 push ups at the top of every push up. Just say profit is not cash. Cash is not profit.

Steve: But but I argue with my accountant. I wanna say, like, every year. Right? I mean, so you you'll it only took you two days. It took me, like, three years.

I've argued with my accountant about this.

Jimmy: Like, you're a smart guy. It's not and I'm sure you did good in math

Steve: growing up. Really well in math. And this is so counterintuitive. It goes against every grain, you know, that that brain cell that we have.

Jimmy: But understanding your balance sheet and cash flow statement, like, it's hard. Right?

Steve: It's hard. But once you understand it, you have a massive advantage against your competition.

Jimmy: Absolutely.

Steve: Yeah. So That

Jimmy: would be if you're starting out, especially if you're flipping, like, go to profit do profit first with David or

Steve: David Richter.

Jimmy: David Richter. At least read the book so you understand the dilemma. It I didn't understand the dilemma. That was the most painful part is that I didn't understand it was an issue. Mhmm.

But I would say definitely manage especially if you're doing well flipping because you're gonna start feeling good.

Steve: You start feeling good. You start spending. But the biggest thing is that the more you do if you were just to do three flips every year or 10 flips every year, it's fine. It's when you go from ten to fifteen, fifteen to thirty.

Jimmy: And you gotta hit payroll.

Steve: You gotta hit payroll. Yep. And now you got some cash flow issues. So you can, what was it? I think was it, in scaling up, they talked about, like, you know, more businesses go out of more companies go out of business due to indigestion versus starvation.

It's not that you run out of opportunities. Right. It's that you're pursuing too many opportunities.

Jimmy: Right. That's

Steve: when you got a business.

Jimmy: Well and then you're not reaping your rewards either.

Steve: Right. Which is the other really sad reality. Yeah. So you did a a presentation on Hero's Journey at the last Collective Genius. Mhmm.

I took a lot of notes from that and took action from that. So can you summarize for people, like, what were the lessons you took from Hero's Journey? How does it apply to your business?

Jimmy: Sure. So I first saw so while I was in this abyss, like, all this is going on, but I'm I'm still waking up every day and I'm reading five pages of something. And eventually, I come across principles by Ray Dalio. Ray Dalio runs, Bridgewater hedge fund or at least used to run it. So he is the owner of the biggest hedge fund on Earth.

And he's giving his own personal story in the book, and he talks about how in the eighties, he went broke. And he

Steve: Super smart guy.

Jimmy: Yeah. Like, obviously, not stupid.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Not an irresponsible business person, but he bet wrong on a currency devaluation. And so he was describing all the feelings and the shame and the guilt and the embarrassment that I was talking about in valleys of in the valleys of death I went through. Like, I was embarrassed about the tax thing. Like, that one that one really sucked more than the business divorce. Yeah.

And he read Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Journey. And this is a book of from every culture, from every country, it is three thousand years of the hero story. And there's a archetypal there's an archetype that human beings have gone gone through for like the last five thousand years. If you go back to ancient Greece, if you go back to the vikings, if you go back to ancient like every fairy tale in every culture is the same. Mhmm.

And so Greydalia came to the conclusion and was like, oh, this is just part of the game. Like, if you want to do anything well, you have to go through a hero's journey. So shall I just go through the the archetype real quick? Yeah. So you start in the hero's journey.

You hear a call to adventure. The everybody knows, Lord of the Rings. So when Bilbo leads leaves the Shire, that was his call to adventure and crossing the threshold. Mhmm. Then it's the road of trials.

That's when they're getting followed around by the black horsemen the whole time, having their fights. And eventually, they reach rock bottom, and that's called the abyss. And at the abyss, you have a choice. You either quit or you learn what you have to learn to get out of the abyss, and you keep going. Mhmm.

And then after the abyss is the metamorphosis and you change. And then it's called the boon, which is like the reward you get. And then you come back from the boon, and then that's what you share with the the tribe, the community, the the shire.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jimmy: And if you look at all of human if you look at any movie you ever watch, it all goes through that archetype.

Steve: Yeah. So and you see, there was a book you recommended.

Jimmy: Oh, yeah. The heroes, the heroes two journeys. To be a screen to be a I actually got this from Russell Brunson. But to be a screenwriter in LA, you have to basically read this book and take this course.

Steve: Yeah. So I I went through that book. And you said, like, Steve, this is gonna ruin all movie movies for you.

Jimmy: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And I was like, no. I already know The Hero's Journey. Like, it shouldn't ruin any movies for me. And then I went through it.

I was like, it didn't ruin any action movies for me because, like, every action hero movie has this hero's journey.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: It ruined romantic movies for me. Hero's mom.

Jimmy: And I'm

Steve: not a big I'm not a big romantic, person, but they they they used to how it works in the romance comedy series. Like, oh, man. It's really now all these other movies are gonna suck too.

Jimmy: Wait. There's always

Steve: that even more.

Jimmy: Yeah. There's always that point where they might break up Yeah. Or they keep going.

Steve: Right. So, it's interesting. But, yeah, it it it's it's interesting how that works, how that applies, and how we do go through our struggles. And we do go through this abyss, and we do go through, like, crap. You know?

Should I did I make the right decision? Right? And you gotta figure out the tools to to to move forward. So the the other thing you're talking about educating. Right?

So there's, I think you put there's four ways to win in real estate. Yep. Can you go through those?

Jimmy: Sure. So, you can there's appreciation, which everybody loves. Everybody especially 2022, everybody loves appreciation.

Steve: It's really it's really easy right now.

Jimmy: Yeah. And for landlords who people who grew up as landlords like me, there's cash flow. Mhmm. And then there's leverage and tax advantages.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: That's another reason I hate traditional financial planning. You win one way. Yeah. Appreciation. It's it's it's so boring.

Right. It's like playing checkers. Real estate, it's like playing chess. Mhmm. If you can if you can't find a way to win in one of those four ways, there's a reason there's a reason that real estate has created the most millionaires in this country.

And it's because they win in four ways.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Because in every part of the market cycle, you can use one of those levers to win.

Steve: So appreciation, I think that's pretty straightforward. Cash flow is pretty straightforward. Can you dive a little bit deeper into leverage?

Jimmy: Yeah. Other people's money.

Steve: Okay. So, obviously, you've had some success raising private money. You kinda mentioned earlier, your medical background helped you initially propel or get that off the ground.

Jimmy: Yep.

Steve: Do you raise private money the same way now or do you raise private money differently now?

Jimmy: We do the basics still the same, but now we do a a fund. Mhmm. And so but we we that's another thing the education companies helped out. People's are self directed IRA money. We we are the best investment for them for that that money.

Steve: Got

Jimmy: it. So, yeah, we pretty much basically educate people about real estate and then raise money the same way.

Steve: So you educate them on how to make money in real estate, and then a self directed IRA. Tax advantages are not important.

Jimmy: Well, it's a it's in a tax free existence. And another thing I hate almost as much as traditional financial planning is buying an asset in your already tax free IRA. Right. Doesn't make any sense.

Steve: So it doesn't make sense to buy real estate in your self directed IRA. And so these are people that are lending you money Yep. So it

Jimmy: can grow

Steve: tax free. Correct. Got it. And the last one is the tax advantages, which I think people kinda get wrong. So can you elaborate

Jimmy: on tax advantages? My whole business is essentially a tax revolt. When I when I was doing really, really well at in the corporate world, I was keeping half the money. And I

Steve: I was Half of it was going to Uncle Sam?

Jimmy: Yeah. I was like, no. Like, they you know, you asked me I love this country. I love it more than they, you know, almost as much as my family. You asked me to jump out of a plane for him, like, I'm your guy.

Steve: You already did it.

Jimmy: Yeah. Go get shot at. Go get blown up, Jimmy. Go, you know, don't eat. Don't sleep for it.

I will do it. But they come and say, I'm gonna take your money. It's like, woah, bro. No. Yeah.

Nah. Not going to happen. Yeah. And so real estate, especially cash flowing real estate, it's it's as close to tax free money as you will ever get. Mhmm.

And then, you know, ten thirty one exchanges, that is a it's magical how you can flip a house, ten thirty one it, and then convert it into a rental.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: But there's no other way you're gonna get close to under a 20% tax liability without real estate.

Steve: So one of the things that, they talked about it was it was, Tom Wheelwright. He wrote that book. What was it? Tax free

Jimmy: tax free wealth.

Steve: Tax free wealth. Yeah. Right. So you wrote in that book that,

Jimmy: The tax code's a treasure chest.

Steve: Tax code's a treasure chest. It's designed that way. People forgotten that. Yep. But the part about if you've got all this real estate and you put it in your family trust Mhmm.

And you should pass, Your family inherits it at full market value. Yep. And it's not taxable.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: I cannot remember what that's called at the moment.

Jimmy: I just think it's sharing ownership in LLC. You would just eventually, we will give equity to our kids in the LLC. Like, I'm not at it. Maybe that's a taxable event. I don't know.

Steve: That's a taxable event.

Jimmy: Okay.

Steve: So you have to pass it to them upon death. If you pass upon death, then they inherit the whole thing tax free, and they'll never have to pay taxes on it.

Jimmy: Yeah. And they will have to pay taxes on your four zero one k, by the way.

Steve: They will have to pay taxes on your four zero one k, and they'll have to pay taxes if you gift them the assets while you're alive. So it has to be when you pass.

Jimmy: But only real estate Yeah. Is only real estate is where you will not where there's always a loophole.

Steve: Yeah. So is that something that you guys have planned into, out of the family tax planning or anything like that? The how are you gonna pass the the the the portfolio you guys have Yeah. Onto your kids?

Jimmy: So what we have it set up this is this is kinda another funny Jimmy Susie story. But we're getting Susie had to get involved in the business because we're we're preparing our will. And it's like all the debt, all the private lending, like, she had to have a base understanding of what we did in case I passed away. Yeah. So she was like, oh my god.

You need to get into the business like yesterday. So she shut down her photography business and came along with us. But we're sitting with the lawyer and the lawyer's like, well, how much cash do you wanna give your children when you pass? And, like, Susie looks at him like, cash? No.

Like, what are you talking about? He's like, cash. I'm like, no. They can have access to capital. Alright.

So basically, when it's written up that all of our stuff goes into a family bank Mhmm. That they can borrow against to buy a house, start a business, or get educated.

Steve: So do you guys have a, you said a family bank. Can you elaborate what you mean by family bank?

Jimmy: I go it's a trust, and then we we have a bunch of life insurance. Mhmm. All that cash would then go into the trust to if there's still children to provide for them. But then other ways, it goes into a trust. My brother's a trustee.

And then it's a a family bank that we hope will get them off the ground starting a business.

Steve: So, it sounds like that's, you're using some whole life insurance. Yeah. Okay. So I am still kinda like, it makes sense to me, but I haven't gone all in on it yet.

Jimmy: Okay. So where

Steve: do you store

Jimmy: where you store your for a business owner, it's different than an employee for sure.

Steve: Yeah. So how are you guys using the whole life insurance policy?

Jimmy: I use it as my Alamo. Like, my store of liquidity, store of cash.

Steve: Yeah. So anytime you got capital

Jimmy: If I flip a house, a thousand bucks goes into into life insurance.

Steve: Okay. And that's just ongoing forever. And then whenever you need access to that capital, you just borrow against it.

Jimmy: Correct.

Steve: Got it. And if you have no concerns about it, like, I I need to I actually need to do my more of my own research on this.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Like, it makes it it makes complete sense. And we got Chris Miles as a friend. Yeah. Chris Noggle's friend. Like, they do this, but I have never I have not gone all in on yet.

Jimmy: If you're looking at it for a rate of return

Steve: Oh, it's not for the rate of return?

Jimmy: No. You will like, no. I I it's for as a business owner having a a store of liquidity.

Steve: Yeah. A store of liquidity that can't be touched.

Jimmy: Yeah. And protecting and for to protect your family if you were passed. That's a while while you're living, it's a huge advantage that people, I don't think, value.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I mean yeah.

Jimmy: And then I've always believed I got this from Nassim Taleb, from antifragile, but rate of return is irrelevant if you go bust. So every dollar I put into those vaults is a dollar farther away I am from ever going not having liquidity to drive on to the business.

Steve: Yeah. No. That definitely need to read that book. So we got a few questions here. Before we get into those questions, guys, we do have our sales training event next, month.

If you guys are interested, go to disruptors.com/salesdisrupts sales disruptors. We do have a day and a half event in our office to go over sales. So, let's see the question we got here. So on Instagram, Ryan, this is, how did you get so many mortgages or for so many properties at at the same time?

Jimmy: We we bought a house on a short sale

Steve: Uh-huh.

Jimmy: That we knew was worth a million dollars, and we got it for 400.

Steve: It was worth a million?

Jimmy: But we got it for 400.

Steve: Alright.

Jimmy: So this is, like, you know, you could do this in 02/1011. Mhmm. It was a lot of

Steve: scared money at that time.

Jimmy: Correct. So we got that house, and then we knew and then I didn't wanna, like, fix it up right away. And so we knew if we and I didn't wanna move either because I was in a little bit scarcity, and Susie's like, no. We're moving.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And I'm like, alright. Well, you're doing all the work. You're doing I'm just gonna go to work, and you handle all this. So she's like, okay. So all she did was refurbish the hardwoods, paint it, and we and then we lived in it for six months, and it, refied out for $7.50.

Mhmm. So we took that 250 k. We bought three houses, fixed them up, then went to a commercial bank, refied all the cash out. That's how we got up to 60 was cycling the cash and the burn method.

Steve: So a commercial bank, not a community bank.

Jimmy: Alright. You know, I when I say commercial bank, I mean somebody locally in Saint Louis.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: Guys I play basketball with.

Steve: Yeah. You know, yeah, you did a video about that. Yeah. So explain to me how basketball and private money go together.

Jimmy: Well, basketball and bank money go together. Yeah.

Steve: And bank money go together.

Jimmy: So one of my mentors, it was genius. He's like, Jimmy, here's what you gotta do. If you wanna get money to build your real estate portfolio, just go find the youngest, most fun banker you know, because they're just a sales guy and they need somebody to hang out with. And so there was a bunch of young, fun bankers at the Missouri Athletic Club playing basketball in a league, and I just they needed business. And by them giving me money, they could go to their boss and be like, look, boss, I'm working here.

So it

Steve: was an excuse for them, and you get to connect with them.

Jimmy: And I still had a w two. So, I all I had to have was a pulse I remember I had to have a deal, a pulse, and a w two. Yeah. And they're like, they didn't it was so it was they were managed so horribly. No systems, no processes.

Then they just started giving it lending me money.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: So re quickly recycling BRRRR money with local banks and go find the most fun young banker around.

Steve: There you go. And then on YouTube, TC, so as long as you put away 30% of your dollar accrued, we should be alright. Correct? I think he's probably referencing taxes. So if every if they take 30%, which I think is kinda high

Jimmy: What do you do? I do 25.

Steve: You do 25? Yeah. So if you make a a $100 on a on a flip Yep. 25 goes in your tax account.

Jimmy: Yeah. That when we close out the project, just like if you make sure all your vendors are paid, you gotta make sure uncle Sam's paid too.

Steve: Okay. So let's, go through that real quick. So a $100 on this flip.

Jimmy: Yep. And can we and then we've spiced it up a little with Crigler's recommendation. Mhmm. Because I we are flipping so much, I wasn't really buying many rentals for ourself. But so we flip a house.

You do you know, you go through your checklist. Vendors paid. Check. Lender paid. Check.

Alta statement. You know, since we have a fund, we gotta make sure the fund's paid back. You gotta make sure your private lender's paid back. Then you're left with your profit. Mhmm.

Take 25% of that, throw it in the tax account. Now Crigler is like, Jimmy, because of advanced depreciation, every $100 in profit, now you have to buy $500,000 in assets if you wanted to be net net cash free. Yeah. I'm not gonna let the tax tail wag me that hard. Mhmm.

But now when I see, acquisitions, occupied acquisitions, especially section eight occupied acquisitions from the wholesaling, I love picking those off Yeah. To mitigate that tax liability. And then so I will get a little brave, and I'll use some of that tax money to take down that house.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: If the calculation you know, I'm watching it closely.

Steve: So 25% uncle Sam? Yep. What about the other 25%? How does that all w? I said

Jimmy: That goes in if so, to buy profit first doctrine, that goes in the income account.

Steve: Got it. Okay.

Jimmy: Once a month, you pull out your budget. Mhmm. And then what's ever left is your profit account, then that goes into your profit account.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: Highly I don't know if you recommend all your guys profit first, but

Steve: that Oh, I highly recommend profit first. Everyone does a little different than that. That's the only reason I was asking how you do it. Alright. On Instagram, Joe wants to know, what were all the books you mentioned?

I think we went through a bunch of them. Yeah. I know. There's there was Antifragile Yeah. Principles.

Jimmy: But if you're gonna read Antifragile, you might as well do Skin in the Game. And then wait. What was this first one? Full by Randomness.

Steve: Full by randomness.

Jimmy: So if you are going to take the Nassim to Lab detour Mhmm. It will be a it'll be a well worth six month journey.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And I I would just do five pages a day, and I try to reread them probably every year to two. But the the way the dude thinks is amazing.

Steve: Got it. We talked about Heroes Who Journey. Yep. Talk about,

Jimmy: Principles of Vallejo. Mhmm. His latest one, New World Order, that just came out. That's that's blowing my mind right now.

Steve: Really?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Alright. So more book I gotta read.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: We talked about, Hero with a Thousand Faces. I've heard that's not really an easy read. So not necessarily It's

Jimmy: so dense. Even the audio I can get through most audiobooks, but even that one Yeah. Is rough.

Steve: Not necessarily that one. Scaling up two point o, I think, is another one. I can't think about the other ones. And then we're talking about the gap and the gain. So, Dan Sullivan.

Jimmy: Yeah. Dan

Steve: Sullivan and

Jimmy: Kevin. Benjamin Hardy.

Steve: And Benjamin Hardy. Yep. And then, Who Not How. Just we didn't mention that one, but I'm a very big Dan Sullivan fan. I haven't read that book because I went through to teach you coach.

But

Jimmy: Oh, Benjamin Hardy puts such a good spin on everything from Sullivan.

Steve: Really?

Jimmy: Yeah. Like yeah. That those are great. I don't think you need to read those ones. Those are phenomenal audio books.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. So, how do you feel about flipping with raising rates on their way? So, with we got the chance to listen to Alastair at the last meeting. Yeah.

And he's convinced that rates are going up. Yep. How do you feel about flipping knowing that rates are going up?

Jimmy: Turnkey flipping? Don't care. Retail flipping? I'd be more I've never been, like, a huge retail flipper. Mhmm.

We the market was so hot, we started doing it. But I I've made sure to never get overextended on retail flips. Like, we'll always have 500 to $1,000,000 out on retail, but turnkey flip I think turnkey will always be around.

Steve: You know, we I skipped this. I should've dove deeper into this. For those people that are not familiar with what turnkey flipping is, can you explain what that is?

Jimmy: Sure. So turnkey flipping is for high net worth individuals or, you know, employees who are curious about getting into real estate, and they don't wanna take that, like we talked about earlier. They're either not ready to or don't wanna take that full time leap into being a real estate professional. Like, maybe they maybe they love their job or they just won't enjoy wholesaling or they won't enjoy flipping. Mhmm.

So it's a way to get all the advantage of investing, not being an active participant, but investing in real estate. And so interest rates go I don't necessarily sell houses. I sell government backed conventional loans to overtax w two employees.

Steve: Love that phrasing.

Jimmy: Right. Interest rates going up won't won't affect the turnkey business at all because I when interest rates were so low, I was just like, yeah, you gotta understand. I'm just a middleman. When interest rates are really low, my acquisitions price goes up, and then your, your acquisition price goes up Mhmm. Because I keep my margin or I don't do the deal.

Right. With interest rates going up, I'll beat down the seller, and then they'll probably get the house at a lower price, maybe Mhmm. Depending on what rents do. But, like, I what I would say to turnkey investors and, you know, Mark Dela Tor, a big mentor of mine, he says that the best time to buy investment real estate is all the time. Yeah.

At different parts of the cycle. Because to be able to do you'll never be able to deploy all your capital at the optimal point in the cycle.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: And if you're winning in four ways, it doesn't matter when you buy. So interest rates going up won't affect the turnkey business. It might help the turnkey business because it the retail won't be as alluring.

Steve: One of the things that we have to check, I think, on our 10 forties is whether whether we're an active participant.

Jimmy: Yep. So That's also for all the wholesalers, like, this is why you gotta be picking up rentals so you can list yourself as a real estate professional

Steve: Mhmm.

Jimmy: And get your take passive losses on your active income.

Steve: Yeah. And

Jimmy: then it goes back to Tom Wheelwright. Like, the whole tax code was designed for real estate investors.

Steve: Right. So if you're, if you're a w two guy and you pick up turnkeys, can you take the passive losses to write off against your active income, or they just kinda miss on that on the part?

Jimmy: It well, in general, they'll miss out. But if you get creative with it, if you have a nonworking spouse and gets a real estate license, then you can start doing that.

Steve: There you go. So there's a workaround. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Jimmy: There's always a workaround.

Steve: Got it. And, you know, I love that you talked about how this is great for the person that's got a debt we do that loves their job. Because one thing is really easy for us to do, you know, we're passionate about real estate. We're in real estate.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: And, you know, you kinda see those bigger pockets too. Like, man, I need to quit my job to get into this.

Jimmy: Like I gotta join the business owner and entrepreneurs else club, Steve.

Steve: Yeah. You don't. Like, there's you could totally invest in real estate if you love what you do. We just happen to love we're crazy. We love this side.

Yeah. But 95% of people don't love this side.

Jimmy: Like, my first, boss at Stryker, he was born to do what he's doing. He's a great corporate leader.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: I just think he should have real estate to beat out his four zero one k.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: But and I think I think on Instagram, on Facebook, this whole, like, it's so cool to be a business owner. It's so cool to be an entrepreneur. Like, sure. But you might wanna mention all the abysses you have to go through. Like Yeah.

It's not that cool. And there was there was a long time I was making more as a corporate employee than I than I was a business owner.

Steve: In all my years, you know, like, you know, talking about Intel. Right? When I left, like, in all my years, there's only a handful of years where I on my realtor side profited more than my Intel side. Right?

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Numbers wise, it was far sexier. Like, revenue was great. Yeah. But take home, it's like for, like, the first five, seven years, like, I'll be better off just staying at Intel. What the heck was I thinking?

Jimmy: With what? 20% of the aggravation?

Steve: A lot more aggravation. Right. Yeah. It was a it was a really cushy job.

Jimmy: I do like, if you're and then all of us are gonna end up as investors. Mhmm. Whenever we start living off our assets to produce income, the great majority of all of us are gonna become and so that's what I tell my turnkey buyers is I'm gonna end up in the I quadrant, you're gonna end up in the I quadrant, how you get to the I quadrant, who really cares? Yeah. Because they'll come and be like, I'm not I'm not a business owner.

I'm not an entrepreneur. Like, who cares?

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: And I I think business owners, entrepreneurs have to do a little better job being like, hey. It's not that cool.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And if you're just in here to be in the Elks Club, like, that's you know, now I'm thinking about it. When I first started, I just wanted to be in the Elks Club. I just wanted to be in the cool guy group. Yeah. I didn't wanna do the work.

Steve: Well, you know, like, we the allure, right, is that you get to just chill on the beach, drink Mai Tais and whatever, and, like, totally just do whatever you want whenever you want.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: That's the allure. Yeah. But I'd be lying to you if I wasn't checking emails at nights whenever I'm out of the state. Yeah. Right?

Like, we don't ever 100% disconnect, at least I don't. And I think most people don't. And it's not that they don't want to necessarily, or is that that they desire strongly to to disconnect? I think it's just the way we're wired. Right?

We don't really have, like, a three week paid vacation

Jimmy: Why would where

Steve: you can just

Jimmy: I wouldn't want it. I wouldn't want it.

Steve: You wouldn't want it. I wouldn't want it. Right.

Jimmy: But I'm

Steve: saying, like, most people do. Yeah. Right? Most people love to just be able to just disconnect and, like, not worry about anything, not having any responsibilities. So

Jimmy: We we've had people in cash for tactics kinda struggle with that. And the way the way I figured it is it, are you looking for freedom from constraint? Are you looking for freedom for to pursue excellence? Mhmm. I would argue when you're checking email, when you're not wanting to take three weeks vacation, it's because you're pursuing excellence.

Yeah. Like, you're driven by that. Right. And it's not about being sipping Mai Tais because you have rentals is freedom from constraint.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And I I believe the game is played in a much more fun manner when freedom pursuing excellence.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I'm glad you put it in that way because I've never really thought about that. It's like, I thought I was just broken.

Jimmy: No. Freedom is just this, like, trashed word that people misuse all the time.

Steve: Yeah. Let's see. Joshua Saez here. What return are you paying members of your fund, and how are you leveraging that capital?

Jimmy: We pay 7%, and then that's what we use. We use, like, a line of credit. That's our acquisitions capital. Mhmm. I wouldn't I if you're do you think the answer of what we do to start out?

Steve: Well, I it's just what you're paying and how you're leveraging that capital. So, yeah, I guess, you can also add how you would start out.

Jimmy: Yeah. So we started out one investor, one house. And the security before we had a proven track record was that one note, one deed of trust. Because if a if you're new and you start a fund and it goes bust, the investor is gonna be in bankruptcy court being like, what part is mine? Mhmm.

Now when you're new and don't have a track record, you do one investor, one property, so they get the one needed note and deed of trust. And you can be like, hey. If I go bust, you get the property and it's very clear. So I would say until you get up to, like, a hun 100, a 100 and change for your flips a year, just do one we raised $5,000,000 for one property, one investor Yeah. Back in the day.

Steve: And then you have a fund now? Yeah. And then

Jimmy: We did that just because it was just a paperwork mess. The one property, one investor, once you get to a certain scale is

Steve: a mess. So then you have, they fund the purchase and the rehab? Yep. And then it's a they fund a 100% of operations and it's the same interest rate all across the board. Yeah.

Jimmy: Because it's a line of credit we control.

Steve: Okay. So the way you the way you address it is you only pay interest when you pull out capital.

Jimmy: Right. No. No. That's the downside of the fund. I have to keep that money working.

Yeah. Now there's a you can do a more sophisticated way. You can keep it at the title company. But we've we've had more instances where I'm like, oh my god. We need more cash, then I'm not that worried about keeping it working all the time.

Steve: Yeah. You know, it's, what's that, Parkinson's law. Right? Like, if you have it, you'll use

Jimmy: it. Exactly.

Steve: There's no way it's not being spent.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Yeah. So another thing that I thought was really cool. So I I talked to the team about this. We're modifying, you know, like I said, I took notes from your your presentation. The the taking action.

Because if you listen to his podcast, you're probably an information junkie, like we are, and we get overloaded.

Jimmy: Yep.

Steve: How do you filter it so that you're not trying to do too much?

Jimmy: I know. I listened to this Tim Bratz on your show last year. I'm like, multifamily. Let's go. Yeah.

Steve: Let's do it. What are we waiting for?

Jimmy: And well, then I'm like, I I have my core the you gotta have, you know, the EOS process, I think, helps with that. Mhmm. I is multifamily any part of my core focus? No. Not right now.

Is there any of my rocks around around being Tim Roth's in multifamily? No. Like, I've already committed to rocks for the quarter. Now at the quarter, if we wanna say, hey. Does Ringling Capital wanna shift into multifamily?

You can have that conversation four times a year. Yeah. So that's what I use EOS and rocks that I've already committed to and targets I've already set to not follow the, the muse or the heart piece. Yeah. You you know that story.

Right?

Steve: We're talking about Odysseus? Yeah. Yeah.

Jimmy: Yeah. So because that especially a hard charging entrepreneur type, the harpies will always be trying to distract you for your attention.

Steve: I just use a much simpler term. It's just, shiny object syndrome.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: So Mark D'Aletore is here. He's listening, so appreciate it. Mark?

Jimmy: Hi, mate.

Steve: Set up basis. That's that was the word I was looking for earlier.

Jimmy: He's so smart.

Steve: He is a really smart guy. So, but, yeah, I think I think there is that. And the other thing too is, Leon Barnes says on a regular basis that you are the king of implementation or taking action. So we we already talked about, like, how you filter it. You you you're not allowed to do it unless it's part of the quarterly rocks.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: When you do decide you wanna do something, how are you able to do it so fast besides, you know, you're being a 10 in a quick start? Like, what else are you doing to make sure you're executing, well or executing consistently?

Jimmy: I so it's one thing, like, when I commit to something, this is you know, Larry will talk about this too. Like, I made a commitment to myself. So part of my motor is driven by fulfilling on commitments I made to myself and my team and Susie. So it's a it's an integrity issue for me. Like, if I say I'm gonna do it, and that also helps me not do give loose commitments.

So part of it is having an integrity for yourself.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jimmy: And then part of me is recognizing that every ninety days will be a hero's journey. We nine, ten, 11 will suck, but we will metamorphosize and we will grow. So I have enough confidence in setting targets and persevering that it's it's just part of who my team is now.

Steve: Yeah. So they've all got to experience the abyss.

Jimmy: Yeah. We were in it, the the week before we left CG. Like, I I said to stop the l 10, and I'm like, alright, gang. Like, look. I promise you this would happen.

We're in the event. Because you could tell everybody's morale was down. Mhmm. And I'm just like, look. We've been here before.

We always come out just like I'm just like muscle through this week.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jimmy: And, you know, do control especially when you're in the abyss. Control the small thing you can control. I'm like, focus in on your to dos, hammer that out. And I I I think the team liked it because maybe they didn't recognize they were in the abyss.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And then also, I'm not gonna fault them for being the in the abyss. And it's like, I hope my job is to help them get out of it. But just I I would say, like, the sorry. That was a long answer to

Steve: No. I think it's it's important.

Jimmy: Yeah. Have integrity for yourself and then run to the abyss every 90 days. Just recognize weeks nine, ten, 11 of every quarter should suck.

Steve: And I think we we we've said this a few times on the on on on this podcast, but I think it just bears repeating. Like, we get to enjoy a lot of cool things. Right? We get to travel. We get to enjoy, like, the nicer things in life.

But a lot of our business sucks. And, like, we only highlight the stuff on social media. Like, here's some real something really cool we did.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: We don't really go talk about, like, man, like, I had this really difficult conversation with this person. Or, like, I totally expect that this was gonna happen, and it didn't. And it let me down. I let this other person down. Or, like, there's just so many examples of where, like, this business sucks.

Right. But we're always talking about, like, the really cool stuff on social media.

Jimmy: And I think I like, I'm not gonna be a whiner on social media. But, you know, on my team, when you when you mess up, you gotta have two rules. You gotta have come with a lesson learned and have a great story. I think I think you can make some pretty funny posts talking about the things you messed up.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Ten days after it's done when you're not really in it.

Steve: What is Azra?

Jimmy: Yeah. But I have found the greatest response I've gotten from is, like, showing talking about a great story and showing your mistakes.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think it goes back to, the connection. Right?

So, like, that's something that, our whole team is going through with SEAL team leaders is that the the connection, the authenticity, the vulnerability, the trust. Yep. So I have I'm we've only gone through two modules. Like, it seems like we've been working with them forever. We've only gone through two modules.

We've had multiple lengthy conversations.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: But it's we hired it for the team. I selfishly think I'm benefiting more than anybody else. What would you say is some of the things that you've surprised you or that you learned in working with Larry and Annie?

Jimmy: That every problem has such a simple solution. Generally, it's a template created by Larry. Like, have you guys done feedback yet?

Steve: No. Not yet.

Jimmy: Oh, so for the audience feedback is, like, when you have a team member that you have to tell them some not so negative some not so glorifying news or Yeah. Feedback. Because it's great being I love being the coach and cheerleader of the team. Like, you're doing awesome. Right?

Yep. But when a team member is, like, clearly making an error, they just need to be coached. I used to, like I would talk to Susie about it, and then I know I have to have a conversation if Susie grits her teeth in a certain way, which is like, like but now Larry gives you a template to how to do feed I'm sorry. I can't bring it back from memory. Mhmm.

But whenever and, like, the best whenever we have to have a coaching or correction call, there's a template right there. It takes all the emotion out of it, and I think the team member feels relieved. And then you wanna hear the super ninja trick? My coordination of action officer, Connor, has has used it on me three times this quarter. Yeah.

He's like, Jimmy, are you ready for some feedback? I'm like, no. But then he does it SEAL team leaders style. I'm like, you're right, dude. And thank you for helping me solve that problem.

Steve: So what is his his his title or his role?

Jimmy: Coordination of action officer.

Steve: Coordination of action.

Jimmy: Yes.

Steve: And he's a a figure within your organization.

Jimmy: Yeah. He ties everything together.

Steve: Got

Jimmy: it. And that was, to talk up Larry and Annie some more. You know, you got the EOS, the classic visionary integrator model. Mhmm. Larry's stance is that's incomplete.

To have the integrator be leading, managing, and following the visionary Mhmm. It's too much for that person. There has to be somebody in there making sure all the departments are talking amongst each other. For like, for us, for example, acquisitions has to be talking to rehab, which it has to be talking to leasing. And if those communication pathways are broken, and I used to

Steve: Which they often are?

Jimmy: Yeah. Which they always are. But there needs to be a human making sure the information is passing back and forth. And so we had a choice to go integrator visionary or do visionary. So I do visionary and integrator form of business, and then Connor's the coordination of action officer.

Steve: Is someone else that's in that where is he in the accountability chart?

Jimmy: Right next to me.

Steve: Right

Jimmy: next to the integrator.

Steve: Right next to the integrator.

Jimmy: On the leadership team.

Steve: Okay. So his job is to communicate with everybody else.

Jimmy: And to make everything is meshing.

Steve: I think that's powerful. So I can't wait to get to that part.

Jimmy: We've done it for two quarters. I just had Connor's quarterly conversation yesterday. I'm like, dude, this is like, this kid was made for this position. He he loves it.

Steve: Well, one thing I've learned about myself, and I think everyone here that works here and my wife and probably a lot of other people tell you too, my biggest challenge is communication, which is ironic because I teach it. Right? But I'm lousy at it. So, yeah, I think this, one person is in charge of communicating ideas. I think it's a really interesting concept.

Jimmy: Yeah. I think it's a, EOS is great. Mhmm. But things can always get better. Of course.

I think SEAL team leaders have really pointed out a gap in the market there. Yeah. Because I everybody expects the COO and the integrator to or the integrator to just do so much. So they have to lead and manage employees, but then to also manage the information, I I don't have my business too much.

Steve: Yeah. Well, especially because we're it's not like we're simplifying things. We're just getting bigger and bigger and more complicated, adding more people. Yeah. Yeah.

No. That I I would say it our greatest challenge consistently is this message was not communicated to that person. Consistently, that is, like, the biggest challenge.

Jimmy: And then it's this definition of success is coordination of action.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: We gotta it's gonna be hard to be successful.

Steve: Absolutely.

Jimmy: I would I would reach out to Nick on their team and just ask about the because they'll come in and they'll give you an interim CAO or they'll train somebody on your team to be the CAO.

Steve: Got it. Okay. So we'll definitely check that out. So, we haven't really talked about this. What keeps you going?

What is your why?

Jimmy: I'm just having playing the game. Yeah. Pursuing excellence. Having fun.

Steve: Is there something more to it, or is it just pursuing excellence?

Jimmy: Like, god gave me a lot of gifts. Right? Mhmm. He got me through the war. It's like, I have duty to develop those gifts to the grace of my ability.

Yeah. So that is the and then the fact that it's so much fun, and then the fact that now I'm not afraid of abysses, and then it's just a game to me.

Steve: You're not even not afraid of it. I think you're looking forward to the next one. Yes.

Jimmy: And, like, it's it's just so the little daughter is like, I'm 42. And

Steve: What's that?

Jimmy: I'm 42. Okay. And I sat at the bench in college. Mhmm. I'm still a little pissed off about that.

Yeah. So the fact that I get playing time in this game, I'm just so grateful.

Steve: That at West Point? Yeah. Okay. So I think they probably had a pretty good program.

Jimmy: No. We weren't any good any then either. They're awesome now. We were bad.

Steve: You were bad then?

Jimmy: Yeah. I

Steve: mean, at least you were on the bench. I got cut, like, freshman year of high school. Like, I never made a pass, first cuts.

Jimmy: Yeah. I'm a little bit in the gap about it, for sure.

Steve: Yeah. So but I think that's awesome, man. I think that's why we have so much fun.

Jimmy: What keeps you going?

Steve: I think I have an obligation to to maximize my potential. I it's and I used to not know, right, why, but then going through with sales team leaders, like, uncovering some, you know, childhood, you know, the way we were raised and everything else.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: You know, we talk about the the tiger mom and why, like, the the three things that happen with, like, a lot of Asian kids is that, you know, they're overachievers, hyper competitive, and low self esteem. Right? It's like, this is what happens. Right? Like, you got a 98.

Jimmy: Why the low self esteem?

Steve: Because you were never good enough for your parents.

Jimmy: Is that it?

Steve: Oh, yeah. Like, if you got 98 on a test, like, well, why didn't you study harder? Like, this is these are real conversations. I had these conversations with my kids. Like, yeah.

Nine out of 10 of that test. What were you doing? Right? And so I think there, there's some part where you have to maximize your potential. So but that is for me.

That that that is my why. So I if you asked me, like, a few weeks ago, I was like, I don't know. I just wanna win.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: Now I was like, apparently, something back there.

Jimmy: It's like a a sense of duty. Right?

Steve: Sense of duty, sense of obligation. They called it, I was reading this, last week. I think it was, it's like the the immigrants bargain.

Jimmy: Uh-huh.

Steve: Like, your parents come to this, country to sacrifice. You have an obligation to be successful. Right? Like, they traveled across the planet to come to the greatest country in the world. Right.

You have an obligation to succeed. So something I was reading about, last week. So I think that's what it is. Not a percent

Jimmy: not a percent. Good thing or a bad thing?

Steve: I don't think it's either. I think it's just who we are.

Jimmy: It just is. Right?

Steve: Yeah. So we embrace it and just move on.

Jimmy: I also think that's part of being grateful too.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Don't you? Like, there's so much opportunity. Like, if you can contribute just a little bit back.

Steve: Oh, yeah. And my biggest struggle at this exact moment is, like, which opportunities do we say yes to? Which opportunities do we say no to? It's an amazing problem to have. Right.

But, man, it's it's a struggle. It's like, because you got, like, these other successful friends, hey. Let's partner up on this. These other successful friends, they want let's partner up on that. It's like, I wanna say yes to all of them, but I know, kinda like you said earlier, an integrity issue.

Jimmy: Right.

Steve: If I say yes to all these things, I'm gonna upset somebody. I'm gonna say it's gonna screw things up. Can't do them all well.

Jimmy: And then you're worried about your reputation.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: Because if you fail one person, like, oh, you know, it's hard to work with Steve.

Steve: It's hard to work with Steve. Can't get a hold of him. All sorts of other challenges. Yeah. So that's my biggest struggle.

Jimmy: The chaos of abundance.

Steve: The chaos of abundance. It's wonderful.

Jimmy: So are you are you getting the process together on how to figure it out?

Steve: That's a good idea. I talked it through with with our leadership team. So one thing that, Gary Harper had us do when he when he came out was he got me as a visionary, of of the holdings company, Jaden, who is our integrator, who now that you mentioned chief coordination officer

Jimmy: Jaden's always like, oh my god. If Steve would just give me a CAO, I'd be so much better. He's

Steve: probably thinking that same thing. So if I listen to this right now, I'm kinda freaking out. And then there's four other companies that he's accountable for that are, you know, reporting up to him.

Jimmy: Yep.

Steve: And so, I am I am removed. So I don't know. The we'll see where it goes. That's but we have our leadership meetings on Tuesdays where, like, hey. I got this crazy idea.

What do you guys think? And it's like, we're gonna move it off to a quarterly meeting.

Jimmy: Do you

Steve: wanna talk about it now? So that's how we filter right now, but there probably could be a better process.

Jimmy: But then you guys open up the space in the quarterly to Yes. Have that conversation.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Right? And then that's kinda your time to do the reconnaissance

Steve: Yeah. To get To figure out whether it's something we wanna pursue.

Jimmy: And have you found that, like, doing EOS, doing Gary Harper, that to implement the new ideas, it really isn't not that much brain damage because you have the scaffolding Mhmm. To to do that.

Steve: Yeah. It's, because we're mentally prepared for it. We're mentally ready to have that conversation. Versus like, hey, Jimmy. I'm in it.

I wanna write something about you. Yeah. We're not mentally prepared to have that conversation.

Jimmy: I'm like, sure. Let's start.

Steve: Yeah. We're not thinking about the pros, the cons. We're just like, oh, yeah. Sounds like a good idea. Let's go do it.

Awesome.

Jimmy: Yeah. Whatever you decide, best of luck.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I appreciate that.

Jimmy: I hope I you'll I know you'll crush it.

Steve: Well, I appreciate it. So going back to what is your biggest struggle right now?

Jimmy: Right now? What what have I been pissed off about lately? Yeah. Like, right now, I've been getting like, I've been having feedback sessions with Connor. Right?

Yeah. And Christy. Uh-huh. Christy's my EA, and they're all, like, trying to wedge me out of the business.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: And so I would say figuring out as my team is rising and they they are crushing this quarter Mhmm. As, like, you know, what do I do now?

Steve: Well, you should probably talk to Phil Green about that. Yeah. Because he's all about, like, coming up with new ideas.

Jimmy: Well and I want to leverage the current market and really maximize wholesaling. Mhmm. So being top notch wholesalers and and thank you for your coaching, and my team loves your coaching.

Steve: Oh, thank you.

Jimmy: But while the market remains hot, being top notch wholesalers.

Steve: Yeah. So what I did, which you've already done, the reason why we hire SEAL team leaders is because I was getting kicked out of all my companies.

Jimmy: Uh-huh.

Steve: I was like, before I completely release the reins, I just want one, like, really good training for all you guys. And then, ironically, I think I'm getting the most out of it

Jimmy: That's awesome.

Steve: Than everybody else.

Jimmy: I mean, I can't I can't wait till they go to the they I can't wait till CL team leaders goes to the, I know they're gonna do a a more of a mass market approach. Mhmm. I can't and Larry's got a book coming out.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: I can't wait. Just, the concept of, you know, fulfillment is how much action you can coordinate together Mhmm. And how he explained it from his time overseas. Like, when I saw that six months ago, that blew me away. Yeah.

And when what did he say? What I can't what did he say at the December meeting? It was his talk at December meeting which he

Steve: I I didn't I didn't get to hear that talk.

Jimmy: Oh, you might wanna go back to the Dropbox and watch that. Yeah. That changed our whole how we did our annual planning.

Steve: Okay then. Then we'll go back to

Jimmy: Don't just keep jumping. Here here it was. You can either, you know, you can keep jumping to the next achievement, next achievement, next achievement, and you might be fulfilled Mhmm. If you focus on achievement. Or you could focus on fulfillment and still achieve things, and you'll probably get both.

Steve: Yeah. That was the thing that hit me, like a bag of bricks, in our coaching. So that's one of the questions here. How do you measure success? I think you just answered it.

Jimmy: Well, CLT Leaders has helped me restructure it. Like, there's definitely scoreboards. They're definitely the p and l. But it's how much action are we coordinating and how successful are my team members. Yeah.

And how much are they growing?

Steve: Yeah. What is your superpower?

Jimmy: Starting things. Executing.

Steve: So, if someone wanted to learn more about their Kobe, how would they do that?

Jimmy: Kobe.com.

Steve: Kobe.com.

Jimmy: I think it's less than a $100. I would say take it with your spouse too. That helped me and Susie understand each other a lot. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. It was $55 when I looked at it, like, a couple weeks ago. It's it's crazy how accurate it is. And for me, I it actually gave me some relief. I was like, oh, I'm really bad at, like, finishing things, and I'm really terrible at my hands.

So don't have to worry about those things anymore.

Jimmy: Well, I I had, like, some guilt from my time in the military because if they'd be like, you know, sit here and shine your shoes, I'd be like, no. No way. But they're like, jump out a plane. I'm like, okay. Sounds good.

Yeah. And I was like, oh, I was just born that way.

Steve: Right.

Jimmy: But I was just like, why couldn't I do these simple easy things?

Steve: Yeah. I could so you and I, right, could go start something tomorrow.

Jimmy: Sure.

Steve: Or maybe we're after this podcast. We can start a brand new venture. Right? Yeah. But in six months or twelve months, like, are you still excited about it?

I was like, I mean, someone's taking care of it. Right. So we can start things. So, and this kinda, like, the concept from Dan Sullivan was there as project managers and process managers. Right?

I can do anything once in amazingly high level. You asked me to do that thing 10 times, man, that effort wanes every time I do it.

Jimmy: Absolutely.

Steve: So you get that same thing.

Jimmy: So I and then, you know, because I've been thinking about this. I think I'll always be I wanna in my business, I wanna be like the zero to one guy. Mhmm. I wanna be finding the new thing, starting the new thing, putting this bringing the team to build the scaffolding, build the business around it, then off again.

Steve: Right. So I think, yeah, definitely, serial entrepreneur, shiny object syndrome. You and I have that in spades.

Jimmy: And it's fun.

Steve: It's a lot of fun. What is the greatest lesson that you have learned?

Jimmy: That's tough.

Steve: Seems like there were a handful.

Jimmy: Of all of all time Mhmm. I would say learn to run to the abyss. Learn to in that is this a Jordan Peter it's Jordan Peterson quote, but that which that which you want most will be found where you least want to look. And so I know if I don't wanna look at something, I'm like, that's the next ninety day target.

Steve: What was the there was a a a, it was a a short story or, like, a very short article. It was talking about, you know, the secrets to success. And, I mean, we all say, alright. There's no secret to success. I think what the guy basically said was, like, if you're willing to do what no one else is willing to do, that's the secret.

Right? If you're willing to do every single day what nobody else wants to do, you will find success.

Jimmy: If it's targeting the correct direction.

Steve: Target in the right direction, but, you know, obviously, it's something that's providing value to society. But But

Jimmy: I mean, I've seen people just, you know, grind with their head down with no strategic direction and, you know, they they wanna be the martyr Mhmm. That

Steve: That's their definition of success. It's not a great definition, but that's that's their definition of success. They're happy

Jimmy: to be more to do, like, with as long as they're strategic Yeah. As long as they look up.

Steve: Right. Yeah. I think that's a good point. Is there a favorite best or most interesting failure in your career?

Jimmy: Each new major mess up, Steve, is always my new favorite failure.

Steve: Is there one very recent that would be an interesting you you talk about it has to be a great story. Right?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Is there a grace recent great story?

Jimmy: You doing anything really stupid lately? Everyday. Everyday. Not not recently. Yeah.

I think I we I think I missed a little I should have enacted more of a focus on wholesaling before I did. Mhmm. Because turnkey was simple and it was easy and we were just getting good at it. So about this time last year, I wish I would have pivoted faster

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: Or gotten better at wholesaling faster Mhmm. Put more of a emphasis on it.

Steve: Yeah. Got it. And I remember, like, I watched it. When I was newer to CAG, I remember watching your presentation on how to work with roof stock. Uh-huh.

Was that how to wholesale the roof stock? I know you were double closing with them. Right?

Jimmy: We were so since I have the property management Mhmm. I have a distinct advantage for on wholesalers, from tired landlords.

Steve: How's that?

Jimmy: Because I'll buy everything occupied. Okay. Love it. But, of course, I say, hey, you know, only investors investors only pay this. Even though I know I got hedge funds and roof stock on the back end Right.

Willing to pay double that.

Steve: Yeah.

Jimmy: But if I have to own it for two weeks to a month and collect the rent Mhmm. I I love that. I don't know if it I we call it delayed wholesaling.

Steve: Yeah. Is there any one book you've gifted, more than any other?

Jimmy: Chase the Lion by Mark Batterson.

Steve: What's that book about?

Jimmy: If your if your dream doesn't scare you, you're not dreaming big enough.

Steve: Got it.

Jimmy: That's the the headline on the, that's the headline on on the book.

Steve: Got it. I guess then I mean, this is probably a stupid question. But, like, in your opinion, do you feel then, if that's your favorite book, that as a society, we're not dreaming big enough?

Jimmy: Yeah. We'd rather sit in here and fight on Instagram and Twitter and kick people off Twitter. Yeah. I I think we have other fish to fry for sure.

Steve: We do have some bigger fish fry. That's true. Alright. So I want you to think about, message you wanna leave the listeners with while I make a couple of quick announcements.

Jimmy: Okay.

Steve: Guys, if you guys got value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. I'm harping this every week. I see 37 people watching, 17 likes. Like, guys, it helps the algorithm. And if it helps the algorithm, it helps us reach more people.

We do have our sales master class coming up, next month. If you guys are interested, go to disruptors.com/salesdisruptors. And we do have Shane Nynen coming in next week, and he's got a very interesting story to share. I'm excited to talk to him about that. So last thoughts you would like to leave the listeners with.

Jimmy: Can I can I steal a line from Ray Dalio? Of course. If you're looking back at who you were a year ago and you don't think you were stupid, you're not growing fast enough.

Steve: Man, that's a lot of growth every year.

Jimmy: Ray Dalio did it.

Steve: Did he? Man.

Jimmy: He's, owns the biggest hedge fund on earth.

Steve: He's done some amazing things. There's no question about that. But, man, to look back at the previous year and feel that guy was dumb, that's that's a big loss.

Jimmy: I mean, I could say from my last ten to fifteen years I can easily say that.

Steve: That's awesome.

Jimmy: I mean, you so you think you could say that?

Steve: I think I've done a lot of stupid things. I don't think I've done enough stupid things every year.

Jimmy: Well, let me ask you this. On your highest growth periods, were you doing were you doing stupid things?

Steve: Of course.

Jimmy: Okay.

Steve: Yeah. Absolutely. I just have to sit back and interview this. But I think that's that's an amazing quote. Right?

And I think that if everyone could aspire to that and I think it's pretty close in line with that book. Right? It was to chase the line?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Steve: Alright. It's very close. I think it's just on on the flip side of that. So I think, that's that's amazing. If someone wants to get a hold of you actually, there was a website you were talking about earlier.

What was it?

Jimmy: Yeah. So we for for your audience, if you're interested, we have a a tax program on how to leverage the fourth pillar, taxes, and how it works with real estate. We have a workshop on tax that we made for your audience, and we have a if you're curious about turnkey, we have a turnkey workshop for your audience. It's cashflowtactics.com/stevetrain.

Steve: Awesome.

Jimmy: And I'm not sure if it's up today, but I know that the team's working on it. We'll we'll have it up by the time it when do you think those will drop on iTunes? Tomorrow. Okay. Tomorrow.

It'll be a little bit after it drops on iTunes.

Steve: Alright. Perfect. That works.

Jimmy: You guys are fast.

Steve: Oh, yeah. So if someone wanted to get a hold of you, connect with you, how would they do that?

Jimmy: Instagram. Either at cash flow tactics or Jimmy Breland on Instagram.

Steve: Alright. Perfect. So this is a really fun show.

Jimmy: This was awesome. Thank you

Steve: so much. Thank you

Jimmy: for having me.

Steve: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you guys for watching.

Jimmy: Shout out to Steve Trane. Jump on the Steve Trane. We real estate disrupt us.