Steve Trang interviews Lame Kinikini, who scaled from zero to 200 rental doors in under three years using creative financing strategies. Lame shares his journey from door-to-door sales at Vivint to building a vertically integrated short-term rental empire worth 8 figures, emphasizing the importance of commitment, creative finance, and leveraging tax advantages through material participation in short-term rentals.
Master creative financing techniques like seller financing and subject-to deals to acquire properties with minimal down payments (5-10% instead of traditional 20%)
Vertically integrate your property management business by owning cleaning, handyman, and other service companies to increase margins from 20-30% to 40%
Leverage the short-term rental tax code that allows material participants (100 hours per property) to write off depreciation against active income
1:23:07Casey Ryan from We Buy Any House reveals how he generated $6 million in profit with just 12 employees by leveraging AI automation, data enrichment, and strategic focus. He shares his journey building custom AI tools for call analysis, lead scoring, and CRM automation, plus why he's selling his rental property portfolio to focus on his core wholesaling business.
1:12:00James Harkless of Property Leads shares how his company generates high-quality motivated seller leads for real estate investors, with 1 in 4 homeowners reaching out before selling. He discusses his journey from construction to building a successful pay-per-lead business, innovative features like live transfers, and quality control methods that achieve 25% title transfer rates.
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Position yourself 10 feet away from the door when door-to-door selling and look busy to create curiosity and break preoccupation patterns
Commit fully to your real estate business instead of maintaining a plan B - you cannot serve two masters effectively
”“The amount of money you make is really a reflection of what you tell yourself you're worth and what you tell yourself you can do.”
”“If you have a plan b, that means your plan a sucks. Commitment is the biggest and greatest thing you can do in anything you do in your life.”
”“Creative finance is genuinely a cheat code. I don't know why it isn't taught more frequently.”
”“Your best salesman is the customer that you just took care of. That's your best marketing.”
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Lame Kinikini: I've learned the longer I've been in business that money, as you know, is just a mindset game. The amount of money you make is really a reflection of what you tell yourself you're worth and what you tell yourself you can do. And a lot of that comes from first telling yourself, like, hey, this is the expectation I have for myself and then rigorously learning the skill sets to develop yourself to then be able to execute. Because mindset is, in my opinion, is only the start, but really if you have the right mindset, it should, if you have it long enough and are consistent enough with it, allow you to develop the skill sets and be able to go and execute. And that's where it all starts.
Right? You see it here before you actually realize it. And so mindset in sales is everything.
Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors. Today, we have Lame Kinikini with the fearless investors. And Lame flew in from Salt Lake City to talk about how he went from owning nothing to 200 doors in under three years. I mean, it's pretty crazy as a stat.
Guys, as you know, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on this show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, you'll become one. If you get value today, please hit that subscribe button. Hit that share button.
That way we can create more millionaires. Ready?
Lame: I'm ready, brothers. Roll.
Steve: Alright. So let's talk about this. How what was your life like right before you got into real estate?
Lame: That's a really good question. A lot of people that follow me know that I, so I cut my teeth into the door to door industry. Door to door. Door to door. There's a lot of people that don't know that that's a it's still a booming industry.
It's still thriving.
Steve: Way to cut your teeth.
Lame: Oh, man. It's, it's funny because when you people out from the outside are looking at the industry, looking in, they you automatically they're like, you know, cheap car salesman. In their mind, it's like, hey. You guys are annoying. Mhmm.
But I I have a very different perspective. I think door to door is like the elite of sales. It's the
Steve: best way to learn sales.
Lame: 100%. Like, I mean, in terms of what you learn in communication, I mean, I I tell the story all the time. There's very few places where you can learn very specific skills. I'll knock on a door, guy comes out irate, doesn't wanna talk to me, hates me, cussing me out. Forty five minutes later, I'm walking out his front door, cold, coke in hand, signed PSA, and he wants me to marry his daughter.
Yeah. Right? Like, what happens in that forty five minutes is very high level communication skills.
Steve: Well, it's not even just the forty five minutes. Mhmm. I would say probably the first forty five seconds.
Lame: Absolutely. Yep.
Steve: Right.
Lame: Absolutely. Because as we know, you know, breaking preoccupation, getting them to see you as a person right off the bat is key. Right? How you knock the door, where you position yourself, all those little details. Right?
Steve: What were we selling?
Lame: Security. Security and solar.
Steve: Like the ADT?
Lame: I was with Vivint. So Vivint? Yep. I was with Vivint for a long time. So I did that for about seven years.
So When
Steve: were you selling Vivint?
Lame: I was there 2000 I started 2014, and this was back in the day when I was just on the phones. And then, I was tired of, like, hearing about all these guys, these door to door guys making all this commission. I was, let me try my hand on on it. So Yeah. 2015, I went out.
On my first summer, I made about $40, so nothing crazy. $35. Good. Yeah. For summer is really good.
And then, next year, I made 75. And then my third year, was the first time I broke 6 figures in the door door industry, and that was when I it was kind of an epiphany at that point. I was like, hey. There's something here. And so I at the time, I was going to school to be a physician.
My dad's a doctor. Mhmm. And so I was following his steps, but I, once I saw that opportunity, I was doing the math. I was like, hey. My dad is this amount of dollars in debt.
It took twelve years to finish his medical school, physician, everything like that, residency. I was like, I made, you know, just in the last three years, about $200 in really twelve months when you put it all together. Yeah. I was like, this math ain't adding up. You know?
And so I was like, alright. I'm gonna quit. And, I'm thankful. I always tell that story because it was crucial for my real estate journey. Like, those skills that I developed in door to door
Steve: A 100%.
Lame: Were massive. And as we both know, sales is I mean, that is the number one skill set you can have in any capacity.
Steve: Absolutely.
Lame: In your marriage and, you know, when you're going in for interviews and you're always selling something. You're always trying to persuade somebody. And so being able to be in that capacity and learn those skills was a huge propeller to then jumping into real estate. And that's really I I attribute a lot of my success to that.
Steve: Yeah. So we're gonna talk about the real estate, but we're gonna talk a little bit about the sales too. So, selling security systems and solar.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: Okay. So let's talk let's get into the nitty gritty as far as, like, the sales component. Right? Because I don't get to talk about this as much Let's go. On this show.
So, you knock on my door. Right? And I open up, and I'm pissed. Right? I was on a I was maybe I was watching a sports game I was upset about Yeah.
Or I'm in the middle of cooking something or whatever. What are you doing? Like, you knock, you knock. I open the door. I was like, what is, like, what do you want?
Lame: Yeah. I love this. So a lot of the sale and positioning of that preoccupation comes how you position yourself at the door. Right? Because automatically, the scenario you're painting is one that I always painted for for guys that I was training.
Right? Mhmm. And so you wanna position yourself in a way to when they approach the door, there's certain things that they're seeing from you that are automatically making it easier and internally bringing some of those walls down. So for example, when I knock on a door, what I train a jet what I train my guys to do, what I did train my guys to do is once you knock on the door, you actually stand 10 feet away from the door Mhmm. Like, pretty far.
And so I knock on the door, I walk off the door. And then once I'm 10 feet away from the door, I'm never facing the door. Like, I'm actually positioning myself either I'm profile away from it so that if the door is right here Mhmm. I'm I'm positioning this way, so I'm looking this way, or I'm out looking at and trying to prospect other doors. Mhmm.
So when he comes to the door, he's not looking at like, oh, damn. There's a salesman in my front door. He's just, like, giddy waiting at the door waiting to talk to you. Right? Yeah.
He's actually looking and he's seeing a gentleman that's, like, really off the door, which is abnormal. Mhmm. Then on top of that, he looks busy. Right? Yeah.
And so when he opens the door, it then changes from who the hell is the salesman to some curiosity. Right? And so and that's all done before the door even is open. Right?
Steve: Right.
Lame: And so you're playing the game of, like, positioning yourself mentally to put your potential prospect in a mental framework where they're willing to listen to you. Yeah. Right? And so to that end, once they knock on the door, I'm off the door. I'm looking out.
As soon as they open the door, I'm not even addressing them right away. As soon as they open the door, I'm letting them open the door, Now I'm letting them address me. So a lot of times, I'll tell my guys, hey. Just look at your iPad. Like, look at the next door.
Look at your notes. Whatever you're gonna do Mhmm. That when they open
Steve: the door They're interrupting you. Exactly.
Lame: And you're slow to approach. Right? And so when the door opens, I'm not right away turning it. The door opens, and I'm kinda looking. And then they're either gonna say something or I'm slowly addressing them.
And even then, I'm not taking my eyes off it, and then I'm addressing, hey.
Steve: Sorry. You say that because I guess I've had that happen. I'm like, why the hell is this guy not even paying attention to him? He's knocking my door.
Lame: But you forgot about your game. Right? Now your game's no longer
Steve: my game. I was like, what the hell is going on?
Lame: Exactly. Curiosity. Right? Curiosity is huge when it comes to sales. So that's like yeah.
So that's essentially a big and we call it breaking preoccupation in the industry. They are preoccupied with something. You are interrupting their day.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: I have to break that preoccupation. Best way to do that is curiosity, and that's gotta do it. So Perfect.
Steve: Yeah. Because what we talk about is cold calling.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: Because I got is I'm interrupting you. Right? So the first thing I gotta do is I gotta disrupt whatever's going on. Mhmm. So I call you like you're my friend.
I was
Lame: like Yep.
Steve: Hey, Lame. You're like, who's this? Like, this is Steve? Right? And you're like, Steve, Steve, Steve.
Right? But it's not like, hi. Is this Lame? And then you're like, boom. You're ready to, like, jump down my throat.
Lame: Exactly.
Steve: You're doing the same thing here, disrupting pattern interrupt.
Lame: Absolutely. Yeah. And people don't realize that it is all a mental game. Like, what you say, how you say it, your tone, the inflections in your tone, body language, It's all it all matters. Right?
And there's a lot that you're communicating without your words before you even start the conversation. And so and what I loved about door to door different excuse me. Different than over the phone sales because I started my career at Vivint on the phone. Right? Mhmm.
But door to door gave me that vital aspect of of human interaction, of the sales body language. That's a whole another game. Right? And that's where because, you know, getting rejected on the phone is far different than somebody coming out and pissing you out in your face.
Steve: Oh, yeah. No. They rejected you face to face.
Lame: Oh, absolutely. And people are ruthless. Like, people are ruthless. When you're interrupting their space, like, they will come out swinging.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: And so how you navigate that, the internal dialogue you have to have with yourself, the mental and physical game you have to play to make sure that you're positioning yourself in the best way to even have a chance Mhmm. Is huge. And that Yeah. What I didn't realize was how much those skill sets in door to door would translate significantly well when I go to negotiate a seller on their property, on me buying it for whatever reason.
Steve: Well, I mean,
Lame: one of
Steve: the things we talked about, like, some of the best people to hire are the people that have, you know, sold religion door to door.
Lame: Absolutely. Yep.
Steve: Right? Like, if you got if you can sell religion door to door, right, you're changing all their identity
Lame: Mhmm.
Steve: Uh-huh. Then you can sell anything.
Lame: 100%.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So you're making good money selling security systems and solar. Yep. What what about real estate was interesting?
Lame: That's a really good question. I I can't say that I ever grew up wanting to be in real estate. Like, that wasn't even when I decided to make the jump, it was a natural next step because I had real estate, because I owned it already. Right? Because I had a property that I lived in as primary.
I was too lazy to move out furniture. So I was like, oh, let's try it Airbnb. And, it was a garbage listing, but, like, it's where I started. Right? And it and I remember I was just like, hey.
If I can just break even on the mortgage, it's a win. And after the first month, I netted $2. So I was like, okay. There's something here. Mhmm.
But that was the really the start of how I even got attention to pursue it. People don't know that when I had left my day to day job, which was sales. Right? I left Vivint, and I was just like everybody else. I was kinda curious as to, like, what else is there?
I don't really know. Following your passions, I don't really believe in that. Right? Like, I it's really about opportunity. And, and so people what people don't know is when I started my real estate company, I actually started a few other companies at the same time.
So I started a government contracts company, and then I started, I and it didn't go very far at all, but I wanted to start selling Pokemon cards. I'm a huge Pokemon collector. And so those are the three businesses that I started. Mhmm. But real estate just started to take off, and that's when I obviously my attention went to where, you know, where the most production was coming from.
And so so I and I think that's the principle of life. I think everybody falls in love with the idea of what they see themselves doing Mhmm. As opposed to taking action and steps towards the thing that makes the most sense today, right, in the most logical sense. And I'm so thankful for it. And so that's that's how I stepped into real estate.
Now, obviously, once you get into it, then you start to realize why you love it. Right? And that's the beauty about real estate is that there is a million ways, as we both know, to make a million dollars.
Steve: Way too many ways probably.
Lame: 100%. Yeah. And so that's where a lot of people, I think, get lost is, like, they just they jump into real estate, and they're like, oh, I wanna be in real estate. What does that mean? What does that mean?
Like, you know what I mean? I get people ask me all the time. I wanna be in real estate. I wanna be a real estate investors. Like, okay.
In what capacity? You
Steve: know what
Lame: I mean? And so but because of my background, when then I when I jumped into it, naturally, I was drawn to certain parts of real estate that allowed me to transact quickly. Right? Because I was used to knocking doors, and you could drop me off in the neighborhood, and my mentality was somebody's gonna buy today. They don't know I'm coming.
They don't they've never heard of my company, but they're gonna buy today. Right? And I wanted to have that same mentality in real estate. The problem is real estate, historically, wealth is generated over time. Yeah.
Right? And so I had to get into some capacity of, really, sales utilizing the background that I came from, and that's when I that's when I jumped into, really, the short term rental space as a property manager.
Steve: So your primary
Lame: Mhmm.
Steve: You turned that into an Airbnb. Yep. Did you just had you just bought a different home at the time, and then you just decided to turn this into Airbnb? Correct.
Lame: And I was actually moving out of state. So my first primary was in Texas. It was actually in Houston, Texas.
Steve: Is that where you were selling? Mhmm. Okay.
Lame: And so I was out there selling. I I, they they had me at a position where I was essentially that's why I went out to Texas. Mhmm. Most of my wife's family and my family live in Utah. Mhmm.
And so when we had left, the reason we were moving is because we were moving back to Utah.
Steve: Got it.
Lame: And so
Steve: So Utah. So that's a little surprising for me Yeah. Based off the name.
Lame: Yeah. Alright.
Steve: Yeah. You grew up in Utah?
Lame: I did not. So I grew up in Bakersfield. So not too far from here. Yeah.
Steve: Gotcha. Okay. So See, I wanna think something like Hawaii, Samoa Yeah.
Lame: Yeah. Yeah. Something.
Steve: But not any of those.
Lame: Yeah. No. I I'm Tongan. And so but I, I grew up in Southern California. And then I, so I actually MLDS.
I served in LDS mission for two years. That was so you talk about selling religion for two years. That was school of hard, hard knocks.
Steve: Well, that's I mean, it's a great entry to Vivint. Yep. Yep. Right? Like, it's a natural transition to Vivint.
Lame: Absolutely. And that's how they found me. Well, it was because, you know, there's a huge door to door presence in Utah Yeah. Because of the church. Right?
Yeah.
Steve: I think everyone's a door to door expert in Salt Lake.
Lame: Exactly. And so and there's a lot of guys that come, like, pre wired. Right? You can sell religion. You sell anything.
You know what I mean? So
Steve: So you started then as a property management
Lame: Correct.
Steve: For Airbnb.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: Not just like, alright. This one worked. Let's just do more bunch more Airbnbs.
Lame: Yeah. So
Steve: So you started part on a property management side.
Lame: Correct.
Steve: Okay. So why property management?
Lame: So and coming back to the really, as I assess the real estate market, I was trying to figure out what what skill sets do I have that will serve me the best way the quickest. Because when I had left, I really only had six, eight months of runway of savings. So, like, I wasn't I was you know, when you're a high income sales guy, you're spending as much as you're making. Sure. And you're not investment minded, you know, when you're first starting.
And so that's what it was. And so I only had x amount of time, and I'm so thankful I put myself under that pressure because diamonds are made under pressure. You figure it out. Right? But I needed to make money as quickly as I could.
And so I looked at the market, and that's when I was like, you know what? I think property management is something that I probably could do really well because you take an onboarding fee. Mhmm. You essentially get the property up and running, and you're operating it, and it's sweat equity for a paycheck. Right?
And all I had to do at the time in my my inner dialogue is all I have to do is just convince this homeowner Mhmm. That I am a better property manager than they are. That's the only conversation that needs to take place Yeah.
Steve: For them
Lame: to write me a check. Right. And so that's what it was. And so in my first six months of property management, I signed 80 contracts cold. Like, just pure property management.
Steve: We're just banging the phones?
Lame: Yep. Just banging phones, network. Right? And that's one thing that a lot of people, I think, are often, like, selling themselves short on Mhmm. Is not getting loud enough in their inner circles.
Yeah. Right? Like, I just told everybody, hey. I'm no longer in the event. I'm running you know, I I run a property management company.
Right? And I remember on my Instagram, I had posted, just I'd made this post of, like, I am the new CEO of this company. Mhmm. And it was a brand new company, new LLC, a week old, but, like, the amount of traction I got from friends, family, other people Mhmm. Because they're like, oh, wow.
Like, CEO. Right? Like, those three letters automatically, I guess, tell you, you know, you're special for whatever reason.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: What regardless, it served me really well to then find in my network kind of the baseline of enough properties to then establish some real revenue to then have the confidence to then go get more contracts. And so
Steve: How I mean, you said 80 in six months?
Lame: Yep. 80 in six months.
Steve: That's wild.
Lame: Yeah. I mean, it was huge.
Steve: So any challenges? Because, like, yes, you can make doors Yep. But you have to do the part that sucks.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: Which is managing.
Lame: Absolutely. And at the time, ignorance is bliss. Right? Like, I had no idea what's going on. I was just like, I need to I need to make money.
Steve: You know?
Lame: And so and and mind you, those contracts were a mixture of, you know, multi units. They were a mixture of arbitrage, as well as co hosting. So it wasn't all just like pure co hosting. And, you know, we had some multi units in there that, you know, helped us with multiple doors. But I didn't know what I didn't know.
And that's why we ended up pivoting later on. Yeah.
Steve: But it certainly short term rentals?
Lame: All short term rentals. 100%. 100% short term rentals.
Steve: Okay.
Lame: And at this time, that's during the COVID boom. Right? The COVID bubble, which at you could throw a bet on bricks and make money. That's why my one in Houston was doing well. Right?
And so all I had to do from my understanding was basically just, you know, create enough revenue to be able to then start reinvesting in different ways. So initially, I went and got cohosts.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: I created a generated a lot of a decent baseline of revenue, and then I just started throwing that into arbitrages. What the arbitrage model is is it's rent to rent. So I would go find the landlord, convince them to rent it to me on a twelve month lease, negotiate the lease, and then I'd pay for furniture. Right? Yeah.
And then I'd take the spread above all the costs of, you know, the the rent and everything else like that. And so so that's how I built it was I just started getting cohosts. I started throwing net revenue so I could buy more arbitrages. And to your point, a lot of the problems came when it came to property management, when it came to all of the details of it. It is property management is a logistics game.
It's an operations business that just happens to be in real estate. That's what it is. And so that's where I really cut my teeth in just What
Steve: was the worst story you had in managing?
Lame: Oh, yeah. There's it's funny now because my capacity of, like, tolerance is so here that, like, stories that are normal for us are, like, crazy for a lot of people.
Steve: Yeah.
Lame: I I mean, I can't say multiple times of, like you know, there was one I remember specifically. This is one of my very first because I just remember how I felt. It was an arbitrage. Brand new home. Brand brand new home.
We got a midterm contract in there. She gets in there, and literally, we'd have this property live for maybe a week. And then two days after she's in the property, I get a call from her. I pick up the call, and all I can hear is like a waterfall, like a waterfall, like, in the background. And she's like, Laume, I think there's something wrong with the water.
And so I go over there, the brand new home, not a foot of water just in the basement. And it's just like there's something that happened with the washer, and the washer didn't shut off. And it's just going, going, going. They left for, you know, a couple hours and then kaboom. And so Dang.
And you learn to pivot. You learn to pivot. Now, you know, now I hear those stories, like, and it's like,
Steve: It's just real estate.
Lame: Yeah. Exactly. It's like, here's what it is. You know? It's like but I remember specifically how I fell because it was one of my first.
Steve: And you stopped.
Lame: Oh, man. Like, that was the worst feeling ever.
Steve: But, this is your property?
Lame: Yeah. It was an arbitrage. So I was it was a rent to rent model. So it wasn't my property.
Steve: Covered all that.
Lame: So luckily, we had renter's insurance. We had renter's insurance, and then we had found this midterm contract through Airbnb. So air cover came in and helped with that as well. Yeah. And so and, in full transparency, it was still a loss.
Like, there was still money out of my pocket that I had to come up with, place this client and do a different one. And so we pivoted, and you figure it out. And you always do if you just don't quit. You know? Right.
But I can say that all those failures, you know, they lead to SOPs. They lead to you finding the right contacts, right, contractors, right, to where it happens again. It's like, alright. Let's do it again. Right?
Steve: So I haven't posted this video. I know I was supposed to post it some time ago. So, like, I had a property, right, the last one I owned, last year. And, we legit got video footage of realtor taking a dump in the back of your car. Right?
And, like, and I haven't posted it yet. And, like, I was sharing the story with somebody, and they're like, man, like, I can't like, how did you feel this and that? I was like, dude, after everything I've seen Yeah. Like Yeah. It didn't bother me
Lame: Yeah.
Steve: At all. Like, it didn't, like Yeah. Raise the stress one bit. It's just like, this is real estate. Like Yeah.
You just something crazy is going to happen.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: We just don't know exactly what that crazy thing is. 100%.
Lame: Yeah. And your capacity of tolerance is just built to where, you know, you get deep enough into it and you it's like it's thick skin. You know? I mean, at this point, if a house were to burn down, I I don't know if it if I'd react much. You know?
Steve: Oh, we had that happen, two years ago. Yeah. Exactly. Right? Like, we're we were we were in escrow, and we're supposed to close.
And then we were waiting for, like, this title package. And then, we finally got this title package, but it wasn't our name on the HUD. Right? Someone else bought it, and we're like, what the hell? And, but before we got that package, around or around that same time we were reviewing the HUD, what the hell, we got news that the house burned down.
Oh. So we're like, oh, thank goodness because we don't own the house. Right. Yeah.
Lame: That's when mistakes are in your favor. Right. And so
Steve: then we go look and we drive by. It's like, oh, yeah. This house
Lame: is burned down. Oh, yeah. So they can have it. That's fine.
Steve: Right? Okay. So you do this. You do the the the the midterm rental or you do you do Airbnb. Actually, before we go to the next thing, I wanna talk about mindset.
Yeah. Because mindset is huge. Right? The mindset of somebody is buying something from me today. They don't know who I am.
They don't know the name of my company. Yep. But But someone in this neighborhood is buying something from me today.
Lame: 100%.
Steve: Talk to me about this mindset. Hey, disruptors. If you're struggling to scale your business due to a lack of capital for your deals, this message is for you. I've been part of the Collective Genius Mastermind for over four years now, and one of the biggest benefits I get as a member is access to 100% financing for fix and flips. If you're doing at least 10 deals a year, want to network with top tier investors from across the country, and the access to 100% financing to continue scaling, go to 100percentmoney.com.
I've had my friend and CEO of the collective genius, Jason Medley, put together a short video with all the details. That's at 100percentmoney.com.
Lame: It's, I've learned the longer I've been in business that money, as you know, is just a mindset game. Mhmm. Like, the amount of money you make is, really a reflection of what you tell yourself you're worth and what you tell yourself you can do. Mhmm. And I'm thankful for door to door because in that in that space, you have to have that mindset given the context of the job.
Right? The guys that are setting callback appointments in door to door, like, those are the guys that are just you're just not making money. Right? Like, you have to have the mindset of, I'm going into a house. I'm either walking out of a I'm either walking out of a contract or I have lost the deal.
Mhmm. I don't care. Like, one of the big rookie mistakes in that industry is and it's a it's a running joke. You'll have a new, rookie come into team training, and it's like, hey. Because you always report in that industry.
I'd always have my guys report every day. Yeah. And, it was always, like, funny to hear rookies coming in, and they're like, hey. I didn't close one, but, you know, I got five callbacks. And it's like, okay.
Like, you
Steve: get zero.
Lame: Yeah. Exactly. So zero. And so and they don't get it. You know?
Early on, you just don't get it. And they're so they're so caught up and they're so excited about their callbacks, but they don't realize that that that mindset is hurting them. Because, you know, if you put a vet in that same room, he's getting the deal. Mhmm. You know, those five callbacks, two of those are deals.
Right? Yeah. You just haven't told yourself or you haven't put yourself in a position to have the right mindset to then close. And a lot of that comes from first telling yourself, like, hey. This is the expectation I have for myself, and then rigorously learning the skill sets to develop yourself to then be able to execute.
Because mindset is, in my opinion, is only the start. But, really, if you have the right mindset, it should, if you have it long enough and are consistent enough with it, allow you to develop the skill sets then be able to go and execute. Right? Right. And that's where it all starts.
Right? You see it here before you actually realize it. And so mindset in sales is everything, but having that mindset from the door to door to door industry and then switching it to really real estate was crucial. Mhmm. And it it really helped a lot with my success because as you and I both know, real estate is long game
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Lame: In a lot of ways. And, you know, it's just you know, when I'm going to talk to an agent, like, I'm not closing that deal there most likely. That's not really normal unless you're typically a flipper or a hard money guy and you're coming in and you're trying to hard negotiate. But for me, just simply having coming from that space, it allowed me to move the needle even further with people and to create urgencies in the right points of the sales process Mhmm. To then be able to, like, see real results.
Right? Yeah. So for example, that mindset serving me in contracts was huge. Right? Like, just being able to talk to somebody.
Hey. So have you thought about it? I see that you have renters in here. Oh, cool. These are long term renters.
Have you ever considered Airbnb? Cool. What's keeping you from doing it? Okay. Address, objection, overcome, and then it's k.
Well, tell you what. I'd love to come see the property. Like, let's do a walk through real quick. I wanna tell you pros and cons about what it is, and then let's sit down and have a real conversation. And then going to the property, seeing them in person, that was my game.
Right? I never I couldn't close them over the over the phone because that's just not the industry we're in. Right? You can't sign a contract on the first phone call. But as soon as I went to their first walk through, most people in real estate would say that that is a a prep period, that that's like an initial meet to get to know them, and then you're gonna come back and offer it.
Not me. Like, when I'm going to see them, if they're there, we're gonna sign a contract. We're gonna sign something, or you're gonna send me the contract by the time I leave. Right? And that mindset served me extremely well when I went into property management specifically, which then led into acquisitions and all that that we'll talk about later.
Steve: So you're doing arbitrage. You're doing co co hosting.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: Right. Is this then the vehicle you're using to control doors, or what what happened after that?
Lame: Really good question. So I I started out, and there's some time of because this story is important because it leads to why we're so good at what we do now. But when I was in the property management space, most people don't realize that property managers are project managers. Meaning that if you're hiring a property management service, whether it's long or short, they're usually just managing other services. They're finding third party vendors, plumbing, HVAC, handyman services, and they're just essentially saving the landlord time on putting all those pieces together.
Steve: Right? Right.
Lame: What people don't realize is there's a huge opportunity if you're willing to put in the work to vertically integrate, and that's what we did. And so I saw all of these, especially in short term rental. The two spaces that I saw a lot of generated money was cleaning. There's a huge markup on cleaning when you're paying short term rental cleaners a flat rate to come turn over your property.
Steve: Yeah. And
Lame: then the second is handyman services. So just somebody pulls a towel rack out of the wall, go in and patch it up, minimum handyman's $75 just for them to go over there and patch up drywall, rescrew it in. Right?
Steve: Yeah.
Lame: Those are the two primary services that I realized very quickly was sucking a lot of margin. Mhmm. And in my head, I was like, why am I paying this cleared a $125 to clean this two bedroom house when I can pay somebody $15 an hour to do it? Mhmm. Right?
And that was where we saw an opportunity in the management space. So we got really good because we started managing properties, then we saw opportunity in increasing our margin without taking it from without without increasing our management fees. And that's by way of going deep in your service, owning every piece that touches the home. And so
Steve: Yeah. Both on services.
Lame: Absolutely. Yeah. And so and that's exactly what we did. So we vertically integrate. So now with all of our properties, anybody that touches the home outside of licensed professionals, electricians, plumbing, HVAC, everybody that touches the home is ours.
Designer, cleaner, handyman, every service provider there outside of those licensed professionals is is us. So Gotcha.
Steve: Is it all one company, or is it multiple companies?
Lame: Multiple. So by now, there's about eight different companies. Okay. Probably more than that, actually, when you consider the service companies. But yeah.
So you have
Steve: your own ecosystem. Absolutely. Right? No matter what they need. Do you guys service outside of your clients?
Lame: Yep. And so we do service outside of our clients now in terms of, well, now with our 200 door with our 200 door portfolio, we own most of that. That. Mhmm. But most of it is in house.
We're equity holders in it, and then we have a management piece that we're just very selective on, just because the margin is a lot slumber there than it is the equity game.
Steve: For sure. For sure. I mean, the only reason why I'm asking. Right? Because, like, one one of the guys I'm a very big fan of I haven't watched the show in a long time.
I don't really watch that much TV anymore. But for the longest time, I loved watching the profit, right, with Marcus Lemonis.
Lame: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he'd come in and yeah.
Steve: Right? And, like, one of the things I liked most about him and I think Alex Lemonis is kinda doing this right now. But Lemos back then was if he bought your company, right, and he bought into it, you know, 20%, 60%, depending whatever they negotiated. But the cool thing was, like, for every company he acquired, if they needed printing, he's got a company. If they needed, logo, he's got a company.
Yep. If they need this service, that service, whatever, he's got the company.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: And what's great about having this large portfolio of companies is that, a, you can intermingle and get all that working together. But every time one of those companies brings in a new client Yep. That's one more person that you can have this upsell, that upsell, that upsell 100%. All this wonderful ecosystem.
Lame: 100%.
Steve: I'm asking, like, you know, are these servicing you only or servicing other companies? Because, like, do you have, like if someone comes into you for, like, a handyman, well, then there's all these other touch point potential as well, including, managing the property.
Lame: 100%. And that's why when you actually look at and it's, you know, I there's a part of me that hesitates to say this a little bit. But but, you know, when you look at, you know, typical property management services in the short term rental game are 20 to 30%. Mhmm. Because I'm vertically integrated, it's closer to 40%.
Like, because of all the services after it's all said and done. Mhmm. Right? And so it it it's huge. Right?
When we get a client in and because of us building out and taking the time to create these services
Steve: Yeah.
Lame: As you mentioned, you're serving one client in six different ways, all of which are profitable.
Steve: Yeah. And one of the things I like the most when I was wearing the realtor hat, was that if I brought you in, right, you know, Lame is looking to buy a house. Good. Great. You wanna buy a house?
I get a realtor fee. Right? 3% Yep. Back when it was sold 3%. Right?
But I wasn't the one showing you. Right? So I had another agent, so he he split it fifty fifty. Right? And after cost of advertising, everything else to get the lead, I'm not really making that much Yep.
Right from you. But you're getting a mortgage through me.
Lame: Yeah. And
Steve: you're using my title company. Yeah. Right? So pretty quickly, right, like, every every one that comes in, I don't make a whole lot on the realtor. Like, people look at, like, how much do realtors make?
They make too much money. Right? Like, after cost of running a business, it's actually not that much. Yep. But then we get, you know, two, three k over here on the mortgage.
Yep. Two to four k on the title side. Yep. Now we're talking about some real money.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: Right? And so you've got that thing going on in your world.
Lame: And I and I really think too that when you do that, when you venture to vertically integrate in whatever industry Mhmm. That's when I truly believe that you actually become an expert. Yeah. Like, really. Because when you understand the economy of an industry and not just a portion of it, like, what you can speak to and your paradigm of seeing deals and everything else like that suddenly is drastically different and more deep Mhmm.
And more sophisticated than than most that are even just participating in at the surface level. Right? And so and I'm sure you saw it. Right? Because once you understand the entire sales process of what goes into buying a home, now you're consulting and you're a lot better Mhmm.
On the front end of, you know, somebody that's coming to you as a realtor of explaining the process and bringing value to them. Right?
Steve: I I definitely learned a lot more Mhmm. As we got into those other businesses.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: So right now, going back, you said eight different businesses or eight different companies?
Lame: Yeah. About. I think it's I think there's probably more now. But yeah.
Steve: Okay. So primaries. Do you have because it's eight different companies. Do you have one COO type of person that oversees all the companies, or do you have, like, business unit leaders for each company? How does that work?
Lame: Really good question. So I have essentially operational directors for each primary head. And then at the top of it, obviously, is me, and then I do have an operational partner. Mhmm. That's essentially the oversight amongst all of them.
Mhmm. But in the individuals, everybody kinda has their specialty and expertise. Right. But, yeah, that's kind of how it's out
Steve: there. Operator for handyman. Correct. There's an operator for cleaning.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: But they all still report to one operational partner.
Lame: Correct. Operational director on the top of it. And then, really, my day to day at this point as a CEO is vision and money. Yeah. So I'm essentially it's all reach.
It's all vision and then capital markets. And so I'm I'm doing a lot of defining the deals and finding
Steve: the money. So
Lame: Gotcha. Okay.
Steve: My day to day. So then when does when does creative financing work its
Lame: way into this? Really good question. So this is and I got lucky with this. Right? Because you only get to a certain point when you realize that property management, like, there's not many there's not much margin there, and there's so many uncontrollable factors there.
Mhmm. There's a ton, and you're not playing the long game at all. I mean, you can within the portfolio of your management company, but even then, it's it's a very segmented business. You're working a lot for pennies. It's volume.
Right? Mhmm. And so that's when I was like and and even the the other side that really moved me to it was emotional was emotional owners. Right? People are just overly emotional about their real estate, and it it would frustrate me.
I I honestly wouldn't I would be I I wasn't very good at a certain point because I was unempathetic. Right? People call me. They're like, why is this sad? It's like, well, it's because somebody rented your house for the last week.
Like, that's why. Like
Steve: But is that part where you're saying, like, your tolerance for pain has gone so high? Yeah. You can't really understand. Can't relate.
Lame: Why are they freaking out over this? Exactly. Yeah. And so you kinda lose patience. And, and so I knew quickly that I was like, look.
I'm not there's not enough passion and patience in me to, like, take this to the next level. So we have to figure out how to pivot, right, and play the long game and enter creative finance. And that's really where the question that I came to at a certain point in time with my business was, how do I scale and how do I buy the most amount of doors without going through the traditional finance model? 20% down, subject to interest rates. Mhmm.
This had the other. Right? Credit taxes, whatever. And so that's when I found PACE Morby. Mhmm.
Chris Prefontaine. It's funny because because I am, you know, at this point, buying a 100% creative, a lot of people are like, oh, so did you are you in sub two group? And I'm actually not. Like, and I only say that because, one, I do Pace is somebody that I look up to, and I do consider him a mentor. Mhmm.
But the point really I'm trying to make is I didn't take any specific community. Like, it was just all YouTube University. It was all me just there's so much content out there on whatever subject. If you're just obsessed enough and crazy enough about it Yeah. You'll become an expert if you do it.
Right? Mhmm. And that's what it was for me because I was answering the question of how do I how do I essentially scale and how do I buy without being subject to traditional models of buying and acquiring? And so I bought my very first property creatively. It was a seller finance, true seller finance.
So owner owned it free and clear. We didn't know I had an interest rate on there that was about a point and a half lower than market. I gave him a down payment of about 5%, and that was after that, I was like, this is I don't know why real estate doesn't transact like this normally.
Steve: Like, it
Lame: was crazy. Right? Because they didn't ask to see my credit. They didn't ask to show, you know, taxes, season money for for all they know, and I and I have done this just so that I'd say I can do it. I bought a condo in Park City with a credit card just because I could.
Just because I could. Because I just took the balance. I just did a transfer balance, and I that's what I paid. You know? But to prove a point of, like, creative finance is really a a hack for anybody that's trying to scale, and that's what it was for me.
And so so I figured out creative finance, seller finance, sub two, and then we just doubled down on it. And, you know, fast forward to today, last, you know, last year alone, we bought about 40 doors. Mhmm. So
Steve: About 40 doors creative finance.
Lame: A 100% creative finance. Yep.
Steve: And these are all now short term rentals? Correct. Correct. Mhmm.
Lame: Okay. 98% of them. Yeah. There's a mixed use of long term in there.
Steve: Yeah. Got it. And then at some point, tax became a problem.
Lame: Yep. Yep. Taxes is the yeah. As you know, it's the biggest liability in any business. Luckily, because of creative and depreciation, that that that actually had never been a huge factor in my business.
So I mean, our first year, we had to pay taxes on the property management side. But as you know, there's a lot of losses, a lot of expenses. Mhmm. And so, really, we were kinda sixes.
Steve: But Right.
Lame: Once I started to acquire, that opened up an entire huge faucet of really depreciation that I could take, but then eventually leverage to be able to go scale with high net worth w twos that are trying to offset taxes. Right? Yeah. And creative is a huge value to that. Because when I'm buying a property, let's say it's a million dollar property, I only have to put in creative at most 10% down.
Like, those are deals I'm looking for, and they're everywhere if you know where to find them. So if I'm buying this property with a $100 down, it's a million dollar property, the depreciatable basis of that property is still a million bucks. Right? But if I'm buying it traditionally, I'm paying double the amount. So I'm putting two two x the amount of money into the property.
Right. So my dollar for my dollar ratio to depreciation is significantly lower if I'm putting 20% down versus 10.
Steve: Right.
Lame: So when we went and started buying creatively, what we realized really quickly was that we were solving the tax game. Mhmm. You know? And and I'll be honest. I wasn't smart enough to think of it ahead of time.
I just got lucky with it because I was like, I didn't realize I'm buying all these properties for five, six, 7% down. Mhmm. And it still has the depreciable basis of market value. Yeah. So then my I'm getting in a lot in some of them, you're getting, like, a two x, like, on your dollar for depreciation.
Yeah. And some because I was a real estate professional, it was easy to do. Right?
Steve: Right.
Lame: And so that was really the tax came to us and how we figured it out. What I'm so thankful for it because then it also allowed me to be able to figure out the game of how to serve people that are that have those tax liabilities, that have those tax problems because there's a lot of them. Right? People don't know how to take advantage of it. And, you know, I'm I'm not sure if you know, Steve, but there is a specific short term rental tax code that actually allows a material participant to be able to take part in the property and therefore write off the depreciation against our active income.
And so
Steve: I did not know that. Yeah. I heard something about it, but I haven't spent like, I heard bits
Lame: and pieces about it. Yep.
Steve: But I haven't really dived deep into it because it didn't really apply to me. Yeah. Yeah. So can you elaborate on that?
Lame: Absolutely. So and this is where the mistake is because a lot of people think that the code is saying that if you own a short term rental, you qualify as a real estate professional. That's not the truth. Mhmm. It's actually a lie, and there's a lot of lawsuits because people
Steve: Really?
Lame: They think that's that that's the answer, and it's
Steve: not bought into it to
Lame: say taxes. Exactly. And there's a lot of gurus out there that say that. It's a lie. It's a damn lie.
Right? You're not actually qualifying as material participant under the tax code. What it says is that because we always hear to to participate as a as a real estate professional, it's it's like seven hundred and fifty hours in a year.
Steve: Hours in a year. Exactly.
Lame: Yeah. A lot of people think when you own a short term rental, all you have to do is a hundred hours and then become a real estate professional. That's a lie. What the actual code is is if you materially participate for a hundred hours in a short term rental, that property then goes from passive investment to active. Mhmm.
And you can take active income against active losses.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: The reason you can't do that with the long term rentals because there's no code in there. No matter how long you spend on that long term rental, there's no code in there that ever takes that long term rental and turns it into, an active income.
Steve: Yeah.
Lame: Right? It's always gonna be passive. That's why you can't take passive income against active Mhmm. Income or passive losses against active income. So what we do is we help investors essentially materially participate in these properties that we buy creatively, I e, the dollar in is significantly less than if you're buying it traditionally.
Mhmm. So you're buying you're spending less money to get into the property, then you're materially participating into this property that you put less down than you would normally Yep. To then write off the max amount of of income. Right? The max amount of depreciation on it.
Right? And so and that's essentially more or less the model that we've built out. So it's
Steve: a hundred hours per property then Correct. For short term rentals. If I got three short term rentals, I need a 100 for each of the three properties.
Lame: Mhmm. Now, you know, granted, as long as it's you know, it doesn't have to be a 100 independent hours. For example, if I'm buying a or if I'm, creating a guest guidebook, that's a very easy way to get material participation. You can create the guest guidebook for all three of them and put similar information. If you're spending one hour and it's gonna go into each each of the properties, that's an hour across all of them.
Does that make sense? Yeah. Instead of three different hours, it's one hour on, you know, material participation on each of your properties.
Steve: Gotcha.
Lame: But that's also you know, I I love that it's been structured that way because you do have to do it per property. So in my model, it's kind of been in our favor because then when people make more money the next year, guess what? Just come back to me and buy another property. You know what I mean? And so it's kinda built itself in a way where repeat business is kind of we've kind of created for ourselves because of it.
So
Steve: So you're helping people offset their taxes?
Lame: Huge. Yep.
Steve: How are you finding these people to offset their taxes?
Lame: Right now, a lot of it's organic. And so, you know, the best way to, you know, find capital investors is you make people money. They tell their friends, and their friends tell them. And, a lot of my reach has been organic. And so speaking at events, you know, just my Instagram, but really more so, it's just taking care of people.
That's your best marketing. Your best salesman is the customer that you just took care of. Right? Like, that's your best salesman. And so that's what we've been doing.
So I don't do paid ads. I don't do any of that, like, actual, like, direct mail. Nothing. It's been purely organic, which has been very, very crucial. This is the first year where we're actually flipping on the paid ads Mhmm.
Market. I'm I'm super stoked for it because I think it's just gonna be a funnel of leads. So
Steve: Yeah. No. That's exciting. Very exciting. So we talked about, like it sounds pretty easy how we got to here.
It sounds it. Right? So we've covered quite a bit. What were some of the darkest times in this journey?
Lame: Man. Oh, we're going there, Steve?
Steve: Well, it's not sunshine and rainbows.
Lame: Oh, man. If only people knew. If only people knew. Right? Listen.
I I don't I don't consider myself, and I've never in my entire life have I ever struggled mentally. Mhmm. Like, honestly, like, I can't say I've ever actually been depressed. I can't say I've ever been, you know, I don't know, self conscious to a degree. Right?
Like, I've never been that person, but business will do it to you. Mhmm. Business will do it to you. I I think people don't realize that, you know, entrepreneurship at its core is really the most, like, defining, like, self defining thing you can do because of the amount of pressure, stress, anxiety that comes with it. Mhmm.
Right? And I can't even, you know, I can't even, like, clarify, like, specific moments. It's kind of just the whole thing. Like, you're always just, like, always in it. Alex Hermosy, he he's on a podcast recently, and he was like or no.
It was actually Elon. Elon was like, you know, a friend once told me that, you know, being a business owner, you essentially are the funnel and the pinnacle of all the worst problems. Like, all the worst problems, like, when they can't get solved, they just come to you. Mhmm. And your whole job is just solving the worst problems in the company.
Steve: Yeah. Yes.
Lame: And and it is. And people don't realize the amount of stress and pressure. When you start a business, you're no longer working for yourself. Right? It's funny because I thought money would always be the ultimate stressor of my life and of period of
Steve: time where that was true.
Lame: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's very true. Right?
But I thought at scale, it would continue to be the basis of it, but it really isn't. I mean, I I know enough to where my family will never go hungry. I know I'll never make less than $203,100 grand a year, and that's, like, worst case scenario, right, because of what I've learned. And so, like, it's no longer a stress of, like, my immediate needs as much as it is the whole. Right?
Everybody else that works with me and for me. Right? Mhmm. And that's really the mantle you carry as a business owner is you're no longer working for yourself. You're working for everybody that has ever taken a chance to be a part of this organization, and that's a heavy mantle to bear.
Yeah. Especially when it's like companies out of money. You can't tell people that. You can't you still gotta go out there, raise money. Right?
Like, you had a big loss, you know, quarter one. Like, you gotta forget that and just go out there and grind. You just gotta turn it around. So there's so many things that are hard for people emotionally that you deal with as an entrepreneur that you never thought was part of this game, frankly. Like, I didn't.
I didn't really think that that was gonna be as hard as it was, but it was. I mean, the the year we made the most amount of money, frankly, was the year that I had the hardest time emotionally, mentally because of the pressure. Right? And, but but I you know, in all of that, you your tolerance,
Steve: you know, you gained What was that pressure you're dealing with?
Lame: A lot of it was, you know, I and I think a lot of people go through this of, like, you know, the startup phases of growth of, like, you know, kind of second guessing myself in decisions of, like, is this the right direction for the company to go? Like, did I just kill the company? Right? I can I can say this frankly? Like, you know, I've thought the business was gonna go out of business for, like, two, three times throughout our journey.
Like, there's moments where you're like, we're gonna lose it all. We're gonna lose it all. We're done.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: And you just you figure it out. Right? You just figure it out. And that and I and what's funny is I don't believe that that's gonna be the last time I feel that way. You know?
Like Yeah. I can I realized that that's just kind of part of the game? And, you know, there's a quote I love. It's like, you know, business, you never win. Right?
There's not a moment in time where you make x amount of money and you've won. Mhmm. The way you win in business is you keep playing. Mhmm. The way you lose is you quit.
Yeah. Like, that's all it is. Right? And I've learned that now ultimately in that because when you're in that mode of, like, man, I have all of not just these employees, but investors' money, other people's money that have invested in this. Like, there's a lot of pressure there, but you just figure it out.
You just don't quit. You just keep pushing through. But it is a lot of pressure, and it's a big mantle for, you know, somebody to bear because, you know, at the end of the day, people are coming and looking at you for the solution.
Steve: So I think one of the things that you talk about, you know, like, never giving up and it's easy to say, like, never give up. Right? Like, it's it's easy thing to say. But one of the things I learned recently, you know, I wanna say in the last couple years, Paul Sparks when we're doing whale club together, is that one of the responsibilities is actually is to avoid having a game over situation.
Lame: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Right? Like because game over reset sucks. Now, you know, today, we have you know, you can save the games. Right? But I think, you know, when we're growing up with Nintendo Yeah.
Right? Yeah. When you hit that reset button
Lame: Yeah.
Steve: You started from zero.
Lame: Yep. Yep.
Steve: Right? And in business, if you start you even start at zero, You're starting a negative because you're gonna owe people money, and you got some reputational damage.
Lame: Yep. Yep.
Steve: So, like, to avoid that is pretty tough. Yep. What was, like, the the situation that caused you to have, like, the most stressful? Oh, I mean, I say this because there's a lot of people watching that Yeah. There are people on different phases of journey.
Some of them are crushing it. Some of them are brand new. Yeah. Yeah. So for those that are brand new, like, what are some of those things they get to look forward to?
At least be be mentally prepared Yeah. That this might be coming.
Lame: Yeah. You know, I think early on, one of the things and in hindsight, you can you can then actually see through the smoke of, like, what the emotion was. Mhmm. But I think a big emotion that's often found in entrepreneurs on the journey is the imposter syndrome. And I mean that business to business.
Right? Oftentimes, you think, like, there's so many times in my business, I was just like, this is, like, this is the worst business model ever. Like, this is terrible business. This is, like, we we don't know what we're doing. Mhmm.
But I can't tell you how many times, especially when I get into other rooms, when I'm meeting with people that have, you know, a couple zeros at the end more than me and their business, it's all the same. And what that is is that we're all still trying to figure it out.
Steve: Out. Mhmm.
Lame: Right? Like, people often think that if a business is doing x amount of revenue, that means they're perfect. They have dialed systems. They, like, have every SOP down to the t. Like, everybody knows what they're doing in their business.
And the fact of the matter is, like, that's just never true. It's never true. Yeah. And at your worst points, it's very easy to compare the worst parts of your business to the best part of everybody else. Yeah.
Right? Every everybody else's business. And for me, that was something I had to really learn, right, because I was extremely self critical of, like, just saying, like, you know, our SOPs are terrible. Like, we don't know how to clean a house. We don't know how to freaking negotiate deals.
And then I'm over here looking at other people's. I'm like, man, you know, PACE is over here killing it. You know? You have all these other guys that are, you know, Airbnb kings, and I'm just over here pretending like I'm imposter imposter. Right?
And Yeah. It just took me some time to realize that, look, at the end of the day, the game is you just keep playing.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: And you get better. And everybody you just need to be okay with where you're at and just it's it's important to recognize where you need to go because that's a huge thing is you have to recognize, okay. I do need to get better here, here, and here. But as soon as you start internalizing that and telling yourself that you're not you can't be as good as him Mhmm. Is really when you start to fall.
Right? Yeah. And and That's what it was for me.
Steve: Jaylen White, I mean, he was, like, one of the first, like, 10 episodes, I think. You know? And he he did well in real estate, and he decided, like, look, I'm gonna do something different. And I remember I can't remember what the context was, but he shared with me. Like, he's been involved in lots of different businesses, like, as a consultant and so on.
And he was saying that the 9 figure businesses, systems wise, look way worse than our
Lame: business model. Right? Yeah.
Steve: They just got a great idea. They're caught
Lame: fire. Yeah. Right? Like Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: You know, my team shared with me. I was like I think it was, like, six months ago, twelve months ago, like, Steve, we are working way harder, we're smarter, and we're better than we were before. Yeah. But we're not making any more money. And someone wants to feel that we're making less money.
Yeah. But, again, we're working harder, better, and smarter.
Lame: Yeah. And it
Steve: just goes to show, like, it's not just what you're doing. Like, there's a lot of intangibles involved. But, yeah, that that to me was the funny. It's like, yeah. These 9 figure companies Yeah.
They don't even know what
Lame: the hell they're doing. Exactly. And it's funny because it's like, you there's just some I don't know what it is. Maybe it's social media. Maybe it's whatever, but it's like, you know, everybody, you know, everybody thinks that business at a high level is perfect.
But what I've loved about it is you develop a ton of empathy for any business, the more you realize that it's just a game that you just have to keep playing. Right?
Steve: Yeah.
Lame: Because now whenever I see any business and there's an imperfection or, you know, I I used to be, you know, less critic or a lot more critical of, like, restaurants, for example. You go and it's like, they got my order wrong. It's that. But now I understand. There's a lot that goes into that.
Right? They gotta order. They gotta there's some kind of system between handoff of, you know, taking the order to the cook. The cook then has to have the right materials, the right equipment in the back. Mhmm.
The cook delivered the deal. As soon as the meal's done, needs to be handed off, then it comes to you. Right? Mhmm. And it's like people don't they don't think like that.
But when you get into business at a high enough level, you realize that it is an imperfect game that you just have to keep going at it over and over and over until you win. Right?
Steve: It's almost like if they got to order right, a small miracle occurred. Exactly. Because there is so many things Exactly. That led up to this point. Uh-huh.
I was at let's see. This was Monday. Right? I went to Jack in the Box Terribleinder.
Lame: I was about Jack in the Box. I'm right there with you. But I
Steve: was like, hey. I wanna get, you know, an Oreo shake. And, like, the machine's broken. I said, of course, it's freaking me. It's just par for the course.
So yeah. Like Yeah. Getting the order right, getting what you wanted before you got to the restaurant, if it's available, like, a small miracle
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: Has occurred. So we're talking about getting to 200 doors. Right? And, 8 figures in revenue and then 200 doors. Like, what are some of the biggest things?
We talked about it. Right? We talked about creative finance, talking about, creating a network attracting so on. But for someone right now, today listening, it's like, hey. I wanna get 200 doors, short term rentals, and so on.
Like, what are the three things that need to go right in the next six to twelve months? Today's podcast is brought to you by motivatedleads.com. With them, you can get $300 worth of quality local leads sent exclusively to your inbox by just mentioning my name. I've used them, and they're one of the best producers of solid seller leads on a local level. And they fully guarantee the leads that they send you.
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Lame: Very good question. So if, under those parameters, right, I think the number one thing that people need to get familiar with in today's market, especially within the next twelve months, is creative finance. Mhmm. That is a topic that I don't know why isn't taught more frequently. Mhmm.
And, frankly, I feel like if more people knew about it, real estate would be transacted a lot different than it is today. Mhmm. But it genuinely is a cheat code.
Steve: Pace is trying his damn as to do it.
Lame: Oh, man. And he's doing a great job. Right? But it's crazy how many people still to this day think it's illegal, don't understand it, don't know how to transact it. I've never even heard of it.
Right? Mhmm. But at its core, it's really the it's it's the purest way of negotiation and transacting any anything, really, in my opinion. Right? But I think creative finance is gonna be the one thing that that matters the most.
The second is really understanding what niche of real estate specifically you want to operate in. Because getting 200 doors is actually not hard Mhmm. In a lot of different ways. You know this. What's hard is getting 200 doors and remaining profitable.
Yeah. Like like, that's that's what's really hard. And how you operate 200 doors is everything. And so I think the second piece is just making sure you decide, commit, and become an expert at whatever niche of operation Mhmm. Whatever you in in that asset.
Right? And so for me, the short term rentals. Right? But I know a lot of guys that, you know, long term rentals, mid term rentals, wholesale flip, whatever. Right?
But I think
Steve: Pick one.
Lame: Yeah. Exactly. You have to pick one, and you have to go all in on it. Mhmm. Then the third is, you know, there's too many people nowadays with really a plan b.
If you have a plan b, that means your plan a sucks. Mhmm. Right? Commitment is the biggest and greatest thing you can do in anything you do in your life, in your spouse, in your marriage, especially your business. Yeah.
And two people are too scared to commit to it. And I'm talking to the people that are watching this video when it gets to 200 doors, and you're at ten right now, and you're still working at w two. Mhmm. Like, you have not committed. Like, you have not committed.
And, therefore, you will never reach a certain point or even give yourself the opportunity to have the opportunity to reach that.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: If you're not willing to commit, like, send it. Right? Like, people think that's terrible advice because I tell people all the time, and there's a running joke amongst my friends because they all ask me advice about real estate. And, like, everyone's always like, yeah. Loma's just gonna tell you to quit his job.
And I'm like, that's kinda. Kinda. What what I'm really saying is commit. Mhmm. Like, send it.
Right? What's the worst that's gonna happen? Your job's gonna be there if you get back, if you're good at it.
Steve: And if
Lame: you weren't good at it, then you need to find something you're actually good at. You know what I mean? And so I think commitment is huge in today's world, day and age of, like, you really just gotta commit to something, become obsessed with it, and and and you'll figure it out. You can only lose so many times Mhmm. Before you win.
And guys that are obsessed are just not afraid of losing. Right. And they learn so much more quicker to where they find those wins a lot a lot faster.
Steve: Yeah. And I think that's it's big. Right? It's the, committing. It is hard for some people, and I've noticed this.
Right? Because that was my advice for the longest time. It's like, you wanna do it, do it. Like, quit your job. Yeah.
And we personally won't hire anyone part time because we've tried it Yeah. So many times.
Lame: Yeah. And serve two masters.
Steve: You can't. Right? Like, the only person like, there's only been one person ever who's ever made it with me who started part time, and it's because she was a, a bartender at night. It's like, okay. We can make this work.
Lame: Yeah. Alright.
Steve: Bartender at night. You're not available, Sunday mornings, fine.
Lame: Yeah. Right?
Steve: But beyond that, anyone that had to be part time during the, like, the weekdays
Lame: Can work.
Steve: We just haven't been able to make it work.
Lame: Yep. Yep.
Steve: And it's not that we didn't want to. So, unfortunately, because of that, it's never worked out that way. We're only one time. Policy now is like, fellas. Like, you gotta be all in or you're not.
Yep. Wait. Wait. It's it's not gonna work.
Lame: 100%.
Steve: Okay. So then, you were here, and you were just checking out properties.
Lame: Yep. So we yeah. So we just bought in is you know, it worked out great because when you told me you're in Arizona, I was like, oh, perfect. Right? Yeah.
Because, we had brought four four properties out here last year, and I still have yet
Steve: to see you.
Lame: And so people think that's crazy. And I used to think it was crazy, but at the same time, you know, I I think that's why you have professionals and systems and processes to be able to comfortably buy remote. Right? Mhmm. So, yeah.
So before I came here to podcast, I went and looked at a few properties. And, it's so funny because now we're subject to the numbers. Like, now at scale, like, we just plug them in. We do an underwriting, and if it spits out green, then we buy it. If it spits out red, we pass on it.
Right? A lot of times, it's an emotionless, and it has to be for good.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: It's an emotionless decision. But it's so funny how emotional it is when you finally see the property.
Steve: Oh, yeah.
Lame: Because then you're like, oh, this is what I bought. This is what I got myself into. But, you know, numbers ultimately are what drive any business, and you have to know them. And so, so, yeah, we just bought a handful of properties last year. First time seeing them and figured I'd come out and see them while we hop on the spot, and it's
Steve: been great. So Well, it's funny you said, like, yeah. I bought one in Scottsdale, two in Phoenix, and one in Glendale. Yeah. What was my reaction?
Lame: You were like, those are very different cities. I was like, you sure are. It's so yeah. It's all over the map. I mean, I yeah.
I yeah.
Steve: People love Scottsdale for their movies. They love it.
Lame: Beautiful.
Steve: Right? It's great. It's you know, everything is more expensive, but when you go there, like, you know, if you come in for the Super Bowl, you come here for the open, you come here for spring training, like, Scottsdale's pretty cool. Yeah. It's close to a lot of things, and and the restaurant's really nice.
Yeah. Yeah. Glendale, it's great when you go into the Cardinals game or against the Super Bowl.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: Right? But beyond that, like, sorry for all my Glendale games. There's not, like, there's not a lot of compelling arguments Yeah. For going to Glendale.
Lame: See, and it's funny. It's like you look at some of the numbers, and the numbers speak differently. Right? Yeah. In terms of, like and and that's why it's like you there's a point in time where you just have to trust the numbers and just deliver when you get it.
And this is a point in Airbnb that's very important to recognize. Right? Me coming into this, I had no idea what was Phoenix and what was Scottsdale. Mhmm. In all it it was all Arizona to me.
Right? Driving up to that you know, now I'm looking at it for very differently because I'm driving up to the property and, like, we're looking at it. But, like, a normal person coming in from out of state, when they drive in, sure, they may feel a little different when they're driving into Glendale Phoenix, see some homeless people. But as soon as you walk into the property, if you can deliver on clean bed, clean amenities Mhmm. Incredible in home experience, it doesn't matter.
It really doesn't matter where you buy. Some of my best performing short term rentals are in the worst communities Mhmm. In the in certain suburbs, but it's because of location. Because of location, demand of occupancy for whatever reason, people are coming. Yeah.
And that's, you know, that's the thing about Airbnb. So that's why we are very subject to or you know, at the end of the day, the numbers are what matter the most. Mhmm. And then after that, it's the emotional side. So Yeah.
Steve: Well, there is some good spring training, right, on the West Side. I think the brewers have a really good, facility in, Litchfield Park or something along those lines. But I I hear you. Yeah. It's just as as a local Yeah.
Yeah. So one thing I'm I'm curious about, so you got all these businesses going on. Yep. Who is helping you structure all these businesses? Right?
Like, you know, talking about, like, a a third party consultant who's, like, advising you. Like, how are you figuring all this out?
Lame: Yeah. Really good question. So when it comes to tax and legal structure and by the way, those are very two different worlds. People often assume that they are the same. They're not.
Steve: Right.
Lame: Right? But and the problem is you have professionals on both that'll speak to
Steve: both. Mhmm.
Lame: And there it's just not true. How many CPAs tell you this is how you structure it? Like, they shouldn't be advising on that. Right? Like, they need to be advising on, like, what is the strategy and the implementation of tax.
Mhmm. I'm gonna talk to my lawyer about the actual legal structure and protection. And so I think first and foremost is understanding those two worlds are separate and then finding the dogs in those industries to help structure them. So I've been blessed to have close friends that are high performing in both ends. You know?
First one's Brady Slack, bought and sold a, a tax firm. And so I've worked a lot and closely with him to be able to structure the legal side or not the legal side, the tax side of what we do. And then the legal entity has come by way of a few different, a few different firms. Right? Namely, Ellie Jensen, she does securities, and then, Trevor Eldridge of Eldridge Law.
He's helped a lot. He's been in real estate. So those are the so I can't take credit, honestly. I can't take credit. My, you know, my what I would say to this is in these two worlds, people often think that they are a science Mhmm.
But they're actually an art. Mhmm. And to play these two roles really well, you have to find artists to work with. Yeah. And those who hear me, hear me.
Right? Because people think the law tax code is black and white. It's not. Frankly, it's subjective.
Steve: No. That's why they get paid a lot of money.
Lame: Exactly. And it's subjective to how good the people that you're working with, how good the artist is at painting the picture. Right? And so that's how I built my business is just working and finding with artists, not scientists, and then just understanding, you know, the niche and the lane that I'm trying to Yeah.
Steve: It's why I'm pro flat tax, by the way. Yeah. Alright. Let's just flatten the tax code.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: And then what about, like, leadership or business? Right? So, like, for example, we have Sharper.
Lame: Mhmm.
Steve: You know, Gary Harper, his team comes in once a quarter. We just did, an annual planning. You know, anything like that?
Lame: Yeah. Really good question. So I've been thankful and blessed to have been a part of probably the biggest STR masterminds and events that exist, between being a participant in it as a speaker or being invited as a guest or, you know, early on, it was just me paying the ticket to be able to go and learn. Right? And a a lot of my business isn't original.
It's taken from pieces of people that are good at what they do. Right. Chris Prefontaine, Pace Morby, to Kyle Stanley, TJ Tajani. Like, these are STR guys. Right?
Mhmm. Taking the best of all those guys and kind of putting it together in a way and in a shape that you that's comfortable for you. Right? And so a lot of my leadership and structure on the STR side has been from multiple influences. Mhmm.
Namely, Kyle Stanley is one of them. TJ Tejani, Ryan. There's, Noble, Crawford. There's a lot of Mike, Trojan. Like, these are all STR guys that people are aware of.
And then on the creative side, a lot of it has been Pace Morby and a few others. And then I often think too that the best your best, like, ironically enough, like and there may be some that disagree with me, but I think your best cultural influences in a business are often people that aren't running a business. Mhmm. So I've taken a lot of leadership skills from, you know, my local leaders within my church, you know, within sports organizations. Like, just people that I really respect.
Mhmm. And I've taken the best parts of them. And so, really, to answer that question, I can't say that anything I've done is super original Mhmm. Because I'm just a master student. I just learned from a lot of really good people Mhmm.
And it's kind of come together in, you know, into what it is today.
Steve: Well, there's a lot of great leadership lessons from sports and from the church.
Lame: Oh, yeah.
Steve: You know, prior to getting into business, like, all the leadership lessons I learned was from failure in sports.
Lame: Yeah. Right. Exactly.
Steve: So you get to, you know, get to analyze, get to reflect, get to talk to people, and and so on.
Lame: 100%.
Steve: And then, you know, we got connected through Stratton Brown.
Lame: Yeah. Yep.
Steve: How do you know Stratton?
Lame: So Stratton is, he, I've known him since math class in college.
Steve: And so Fresno State?
Lame: Yeah. No. This is actually snow. We went to went to Fresno. This is a JUCO that we both played at.
Steve: Okay.
Lame: And so this is in Utah. It's Snow College, Badgers. And, yeah. And Strat was there, and he was the biggest cornerback on the team. He was like, I was like, your corner dude?
Like, you look like they're, like, free safety at least. Mhmm. I would be linebacker. Yeah, Strat's a good friend, and I I actually owe a lot to him because Strat was actually the one that, for years, he'd been telling me, you gotta quit. Mhmm.
You gotta commit. You gotta commit.
Steve: Like He's not pushing you.
Lame: Exactly. He's the one that's like, you gotta commit, dude. Yeah. You're like, you gotta jump. Right?
And, when I finally did it, it ended up paying off. And so I I've known him for a long time.
Steve: Yeah. He's
Lame: a good friend of mine.
Steve: So you started what when did you quit?
Lame: This was back in 2020. So COVID was when I finally went full time into real
Steve: estate. So Stratton was one of my first mentees.
Lame: Oh, really? Oh, I don't know. So I learned from you is what you're saying.
Steve: No. You had to learn from me because Stratton is his own man and, like, and he's really impressive on his own.
Lame: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: But, like, he signed up for our program back in '19.
Lame: Oh, wow. Okay.
Steve: And had I known like, he lied to me. Right? Had I known how broke he was, I honestly would not have taken him off.
Lame: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Like, he signed up for our our mentorship with his tax return.
Lame: Oh, you're kidding me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: But yeah. I mean, like, what he's been able to do is just mind blowing. Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible.
So,
Lame: that's so funny. Yeah. No. He'd been telling me for years that, you know, he had been doing things that he was, you know, looking into on the real estate side. He's mentioned you a lot of times.
I didn't know his mentor was you. And so
Steve: Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm sure he's had other ones as well.
Lame: Yeah. But,
Steve: yeah, I mean, Stride is is incredible what he's done. Yeah. And, I mean, I love his challenges. I love, you know, just random calls. Like, he's on my champions list, so we talk at least once a quarter.
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, hey. What what are you up to? What are you working on?
It's cool to to see his journey as well.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: Absolutely. What position do you play?
Lame: I played linebacker. I was outside linebacker. Yep. Yeah. So and Shatton was like, he's taller than me and everything.
I was like, bro, why are you playing corner? Like Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. He came out here and played basketball one time. And, I I told him that I was really upset with him because, like, he doesn't even bend over. Right? Like, he, like, he just, like, crouches a little bit, and then he can dunk the ball.
Yeah. Exactly. And I'm over here. Like, I got a running sprint. I've got the perfect, you know, bend.
I'm at my knees are 90 degrees. Right? You're lifting, and I'm, like, I can't even touch the backboard.
Lame: So Oh, that's funny. Hello.
Steve: Yeah. But he's a great, great guy.
Lame: Yeah. He's just, my favorite people. So
Steve: So looking back now, right, what freedom today has real estate afforded you that you didn't have Yeah. Before?
Lame: Yeah. That's awesome. You know, I think the, it's funny because, you know, we say now that the true the true indicator of wealth is no longer big houses and cars at this time. Mhmm. And that really is the case.
And the freedom that I've seen mostly in time is, ironically enough, like, the freedom of, like, thought. And what I mean by that is, like, I am a firm believer now that, like, there's so much peace of mind that comes from just knowing that no matter what I do, I know I'm going to make enough money to live a very good life. Mhmm. Likewise, I have the capacity and the thought to be able to share it with my kids. Yeah.
I know my kids will not starve because of what I'm going to teach them. Mhmm. And that's really what real estate has afforded me to do. Because I think although I've gone through an MBA of the hard knocks for real estate, I feel like it gives you almost like a minor in business. Mhmm.
And having that is everything. Because you take I mean, we could both go and build a business that isn't in real estate. Mhmm. There's so many principles that are paralleled in real estate business, in any day business that is gonna serve us well. And that's really the freedom that I'm thankful for is just knowing that at any time, I could go move anywhere in the world Mhmm.
And make money Yeah. And live life and provide. Right? So that's that's really what's allowed me to do. Outside of that, obviously, all the normal things, we live in a pretty modest house.
But I love it because we're able to you know, I went to Disney World for ten days, and we bought the tickets, like, ten days before we left. You know what I mean? Like, it was, like, it was and it's because you can do it.
Steve: You know? Ten days?
Lame: Yeah. We've been for ten days. Yeah. I'm done for, like, three years, but I needed a break. You know?
But we were able to do that, and we bought all of our tickets, like, ten days before we went. You know? It's kinda like a drop of the hat, and that's the beauty of being able to kinda have control your time as well.
Steve: Yeah. That's awesome. And I I I completely you know, that part about with the kids, it totally resonates with me. Right? It's like getting the business I've said this before.
It's like, it's not the cool thing about getting the business is not really just like the business you do. It's that your kids have such a leg up now Yeah. Over everyone else. Yeah. It's almost like the kids have an unfair advantage.
Yeah. Right? 100%. I like the things that they know now. It's funny.
I go right into my 12 and 13 year old. Like, the stuff that they talk about now, like, I know they know more than some of these, like, MBA grads.
Lame: Yep. Yep. Right?
Steve: Because, like, they actually get to see what the real world is. Mhmm. Not like the theoretical world.
Lame: Well, it's funny because I have a good friend that's in a MBA program now at a pretty fairly prestigious MBA program. It's BYU. Mhmm. Right? And he's going through it right now, and he'll send me texts of pictures of him in class.
And it's like a topic or a quote, like, his teacher, his professor said, and he'll send it to me. He's like, bro, you told me this. You said this to me, like, what? Like like, a few weeks ago. You remember me telling you this?
And he's mind blowing. And Mhmm. I'm sitting there. It's like, well, because, you know, you don't learn business from a book, brother. Like, you get out there and you learn it on the streets.
You know? Hard knocks. You know?
Steve: Absolutely.
Lame: That's the best education. It's self education. Right? Yeah. And, you know, I love the quote of don't let formal education ever get in the way of educating yourself.
Right? And that's, like, that's hard facts. Right? Yeah. So and that's why yeah.
To your point, it's like it's funny because, you know, my girls I tell my wife all the time. I'm like, I'm gonna have a really hard time caring about what they do in school.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: Like, genuinely. Like, I am going to give two f's about it. Like, they come home with, like, f's. I don't care. Like, what I care about is who they are as people first.
Mhmm. Then I'll teach them everything they need to know to make money. And guess what? Those topics, it's not taught in school. Mhmm.
Steve: Like,
Lame: they're not gonna teach you that in school. And so to that end, it's like, you know, educate your kids. But first, you gotta educate yourself. When you have that, it's everything.
Steve: So I have something similar because I go with my kids. If they have an f, we're gonna have a problem. Yeah. But it's only because, like, you could have done better. Yeah.
Lame: You didn't try. Right. You
Steve: want it's not like you're a crappy kid. It's like you clearly mailed it in. Yeah. Well, let's talk about, like, lack of effort. Because that's that's where I was going.
Lame: That's fair. That's fair.
Steve: Right? Yeah. Yeah. But other part is like, yeah, I don't really care exactly what you're learning in school. Yeah.
It really isn't that important. Exactly. But, you know, I I missed this earlier. You have your own community as well.
Lame: Yeah. Yep.
Steve: What's your community?
Lame: So the fearless investors. So I, naturally, I get a lot of people we We help a lot of people save money on taxes, high net worth people that are making a lot of money that are trying to offset. Mhmm. But then there's this you know, a lot of those people are people that are good at what they do. Then there's a handful of people also that just have businesses that they're wanting to scale and they wanna do it themselves.
And so I specialize in essentially scalability in a short term rental community specifically. So on the fearless investors, we actually teach people how to buy creatively, where to find those deals creatively, and then how to operate at a very high level once they have the asset. So and so we have about 200 plus communities. Actually, for your community specifically, we have something special if they just DM me disruptors. Mhmm.
We got, you know, some material we wanna send them on training and whatnot. It's absolutely free, but, but that's my community, fearless investors.
Steve: Okay. How can they find you to DM you?
Lame: DM me on Instagram. So it's just my first dot last name, lame.kinikini Mhmm. Lame.kinikini. And then my community is the fearlessinvestors,plural,.co. Mhmm.
So that's Yeah. Those two ways you can find me. So whether you're somebody that's, you know, watching this trying to get creative on not paying Uncle Sam, give me a ring. Or if you're trying to scale from zero to 200, I got the blueprint.
Steve: There you go. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you guys make sure you DM, Lame. And then you mentioned earlier, I forgot, like, you you mentioned that t j t j Tjani.
Lame: Right? Yep.
Steve: And he was on, I'll say, two, three years ago. Yeah. And it was, like, one of the most watched Yeah. Episodes. Right?
Lame: So He's just such a good friend.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
Lame: Rachel Gainsbury, all those guys. Yeah.
Steve: So what would you do today if money was no object?
Lame: Wow. That's a really good question. I it's funny because now I hear a different thing when you say that because now I really do feel like money is no object. Mhmm. I feel like it's a byproduct of ideas and creation.
Mhmm. So my answer is I would try and create. I try and build.
Steve: Yeah.
Lame: I don't know what that is. I don't know what it would be, but I do know that I love to serve people. Mhmm. And I love to build. And those would be the two principles that I try and ride and die by.
And it's funny because when you focus on those, money always comes.
Steve: Right.
Lame: I think specifically more specifically, I I'd love to go serve, in foreign countries. I served my LDS mission in Ghana. Mhmm. And that that was a huge eye opening experience, just seeing how other people live.
Steve: Gives you a different perspective on that.
Lame: Man. Like and it's hard because when I got home from my mission, you know, I was it was around the time of, like, Black Lives Matter and all of, you know, that huge political climate. And it's a little bit difficult for me to kind of, you know, empathize with it mostly because I was coming from Africa. It's like, you know, it's like, it's hard for me to see oppression here Mhmm. When I lived in two years in the slums of Africa, and, like, those people don't even have, like, water.
Right. You know what I mean? And so it gives you a really kind of a big mentality to fight, especially a big plague that I feel in our in in America right now is a victim mentality.
Steve: Mhmm. Oh, I am with you on that. I have gotten into a lot of trouble, a lot of arguments for my lifetime. They're like, you have no sympathy for the poor. Yeah.
Right? And I was like, I've seen
Lame: poor. Yeah.
Steve: Poor side of the road living under a tarp. Yeah. Right? Like, I still remember, like, showing houses as a realtor to or investment properties. Right?
Like, I have people that are flying in, out of state, go buy some rental properties. I'm Steve the realtor, and I'm showing properties. And I walk around these rental properties who are living much nicer than I am. And it's like, it's hard for me to feel bad for you
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: When your TV is nicer than mine. Exactly. And that's probably sounds terrible.
Lame: No. It's the truth.
Steve: I couldn't right? Like, you I still remember, like, it wasn't the the COVID stimmy, but there was something else. And then we were, like, driving around these apartment complexes where everyone's got these empty boxes of plasma TVs. Yeah. Like, these apartments.
Yeah. And, again, it's hard for me. And so, like I said, I've got in trouble over the years.
Lame: A 100%.
Steve: Debating with my friends, and they would always get angry. I was
Lame: like, I don't
Steve: know why you're angry. I'm just sharing your perspective.
Lame: And when you people don't realize when you get over that mentality, then is when you unlock really financial freedom. It's a mindset game. It really is. Percent. 100%.
Understand you're not a victim and the world is there for your taking life you wanna live, you do it. Yeah. Happens.
Steve: What's your epic life goal?
Lame: Epic life goal. This is sound this sound crazy. I want to get to a place in the next ten years, maybe even five, where, I invite all of my friends, loved ones, people that I just care about, and I rent out Disneyland for a day. So that's my epic goal. So I just wanna rent out Disneyland, and I wanna be able to spend the day and look around.
And the only people at Disneyland is the people that I want
Steve: Yeah. Around me. Was it I think it was it Kevin Hart time when, like, McKay Pfeiffer did this or something?
Lame: Yeah. I think so. Right? That's funny.
Steve: And, like, his daughter was invited, and his daughter sees what the good life is. Then what are we gonna do this for our break for my break?
Lame: Yeah. It might backfire. You know?
Steve: Yeah. Well, that's cool. That's cool. I'll make sure I get you get my number for that.
Lame: Yes, sir. You're invited, brother.
Steve: What is your biggest struggle today?
Lame: Oh, that's oh, man. These are good questions. I I think, my biggest struggle today probably has to deal a lot with balance. Like, I think that's you know? And I think balance in and of itself is a little bit contradicting.
Mhmm. Because I think people think of balance, and they think of perfect balance every day. And it's taken me years, and I'm still learning it to understand that balance doesn't exist. Right? Balance is found in seasons.
There's a season to grind. There's a season to rest. There's a season to focus on families, season to focus on business. Right? Yep.
And so for me, it's been a lot of that of understanding the mind game of, like, where's balance? How can I find it? How can I navigate it? Because no matter how much and how good and intentional you are about it, there's always rooms to improve. Because there's always somebody there that needs you more.
You know? Yeah. And whether it's your business, whether it's your employees, whether it's your wife, whether it's your spouse. Right? And, that's my biggest struggle is trying to figure out how to continue to be the best I can at that.
So
Steve: Are you doing anything about that?
Lame: Yeah. I think, this is something I haven't ever openly shared, but I I for the first time ever in my life, the last two years, I've been taking therapy. Mhmm. And so and it's funny because I always used to have this mindset on therapy that it was for the weak. Mhmm.
Like, I used to be that guy.
Steve: I understand. I've always
Lame: I've had
Steve: the same challenges.
Lame: Exactly. And so and it's mostly it's just because I was never in a position mentally to ever consider that. Mhmm. Right? Like I said, the the worst time in my life mentally was the year I made the most amount of money.
Right? Yeah. And, you know, therapy I've learned is a tool just like anything else. Right? It's funny because we look at mentorships of, like, these real estate gurus, s tier gurus.
We look at them as, like, people love being called the mentee Mhmm. Of of real estate guru, of an STR guru. Why don't we have that same mindset when it comes to people that are helping you in the mindset game? You know? And that's what therapy is.
It's just people that are mentors in the mental game, and money is a mental game. Mhmm. And so I've I've done an entire three sixty on it of, like, of therapy and what it is. And I'm at a place now where, like, I'll just go in just to check-in. Like, there's not any immediate problem.
There's nothing really on fire. But every time I do it, I come out with a better perspective and a better paradigm. Right? And so that has been something that I've been working on the last two years, and it's Yeah. Drastic results.
Steve: Well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. And, we've had Brad Chandler on the show, I wanna say, probably around a year ago. And that's been one of the biggest transformations for him was, like, unlocking, like, his mental blockage because he was, you know, like, therapies of weakness and Yeah. You know, like, I'm gonna crush.
I'm gonna dominate all these things. Right? And I think the things that cause us to have this mindset, like, I'm gonna crush and dominate is probably because of some things that's going on
Lame: Yeah.
Steve: Between the ears. And I recently I just finished a book, Positive Intelligence. Yeah. And it talks about, like, you're all, like
Lame: he he calls
Steve: it saboteurs, but, like, in some way, like, these are some of your demons. Yeah. And it's actually been really cathartic. And, like, as I'm listening and reading, it's like, oh, I have that problem. Yeah.
Right? And you read about, like, I have that problem, like, and then, like, what are the consequences? Like, for mine, like, my biggest saboteur is hyper rational. Yeah. Yeah.
Right? Like, f your feelings, here are the facts.
Lame: Yeah. Facts. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: And with that, what ends up happening is, like, here's, like, here's how it shows up. Here's how it affects your lives. Like, oh, those are all terrible consequences. Right? And so then you start looking at, okay.
What can I do to reduce that? So, yeah, I mean, I think I'm on this, mindset journey as well. Right? So I haven't taken a step yet for therapy, but I've worked with a lot of people that that is their thing.
Lame: Mhmm.
Steve: And every time, it's been, like, huge, perspective shifts.
Lame: Yep. Yeah. It's funny because, one of my favorite quotes is, you know, the the greatest piece of real estate that yields the greatest return is the real estate between your ears. Mhmm. And that's all we're talking about.
Right? Because money is a mindset game. It's all connected to.
Steve: So What's your superpower?
Lame: It's really good. My, I like to think that my superpower is, connecting. I feel like I've been blessed, to be a part of a community that is very natural when it comes to meeting people where they're at. Right? We come from a community that thrives.
Polynesians thrive, I think, in humble confidence. We don't believe we're better than anybody. But in that same breath, we don't believe there's anybody that's better than us. And so we kinda live in that space that allows us to connect really well. You walk in your room with somebody that's billionaire, it's like, I'm gonna treat him the same way.
I'm gonna treat this guy that's sweeping my floors. You know what I mean? Like, there's no difference between the two. Money doesn't make a man. Mhmm.
And so I think that served me really well, especially when I'm at a closing table or growing a business. Because at the end of the day, I really do care about the people I do business with. Mhmm. And, I think connecting goes a very long way because the quickest way to writing a check is trust. Yeah.
Like, that's it. In sales, it's all I need. And they need to trust you before they'll do anything with you. Mhmm. They even don't even have to like you.
Like, people don't understand that. Like, it's not a likable game, a likability game. It's a trust game. Right. And it's like, I can't tell how many people I've given my money to that I absolutely hate, but I just know they're good.
You know? And I trust their competency. Right? And so trust is the game in sales and the game of closing, and I've been blessed to be a part of community that's really good at building it.
Steve: Yeah. Well, that's huge. And, like, something I've taught a lot in our sales training is that, likability is overrated.
Lame: Mhmm.
Steve: Rapport is overrated. Trust. You have to be the most trusted person. Yep. Then they'll work with you.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: Because, like, you don't work with the the the doctor you like. You work with the doctor you trust.
Lame: Yeah. Exactly.
Steve: You don't work with a financial planner you like.
Lame: You work
Steve: with a financial planner you trust.
Lame: A 100%.
Steve: And so, yeah, something we've emphasized a lot in our training. So I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah. Which failure did you learn the most from?
Lame: Really good. I I think the failures that I learned the most from, and this might be a different answer, are the failures that I've done before. So every time I get a new position where it's a repeat failure, I learn the most from it because, you know, it's the classic quote, you know, fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, shame on or shame on sorry.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me thrice, shame on me. Right? And that's the truth.
Right? I feel like I learned the most when I get to a point where I'm like, hey. I failed again, and I'm at the same place, but I did it a different way. And that typically usually allows you to then find the solution that is typically the one that's gonna move you forward. Yeah.
Steve: Well, it's funny too. Right? Because, like, that second failure, what happens again is because there's a blind spot
Lame: Yep. Yeah.
Steve: That you weren't aware of.
Lame: Absolutely. Yeah. And the quickest way to find a blind spot is you just you know, you fails you fail multiple times in different ways. You know? Yeah.
And
Steve: Yeah. Bringing it down. Final question is, which book have you gifted more than any other? Hey. My name is Brian.
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So I've gone for 5 k to 20 k. If that's not a return on your investment, I don't know what it is. If you're a salesperson and you don't invest in sales training, you're gonna get left behind because your job is to be better at sales, and and sales training directly makes you a point. If you like what you just heard and you'd like to have similar types of results, similar success, text close, c l o s e, to 33777, and we'll see if you qualify to join Advanced Sales Mastery. We are taking people from good to great.
Lame: Oh, man. I'm a terrible person because I don't gift books, but I give a lot of recommendations, though. A lot of audible recommendations. And, the one that I've been asked about a lot lately or that I have recommended a lot, especially to my clients, people that are coming to me that are trying to understand, hey. How do you scale?
How do you manage finances? Is rich dead poor debt? Mhmm. And I feel like it's just that every it's probably a lot of people say the same thing, but I think it's more relevant today than it's ever been Mhmm. Simply because of, you know, the world's perspective and view on debt specifically and, like, how to leverage that, how to manage that, and how to use that in your favor to scale.
Yeah. You know? And debt is a tool. Right? And at the end of the day, if you understand how to use it for good, it can be a huge asset.
But, you know, again, it all comes back to that same mindset of money is a mindset game. Mhmm. Alright?
Steve: You know, I had this chance to speak at a high school last week. Oh, nice. And, you know, you kinda have this idea, like, the kids are screwed. Right?
Lame: Like, they don't have a chance.
Steve: Like, the way things are going with, like, the social media and technology, like, they don't have a chance. Right. And there was a girl in there, and she's 17. And she's like, I just read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I already have a job.
What is another side hustle I can do? I was like, you're 17? Yeah. You read Rich Dad Poor Dad?
Lame: You're freaking out, man. And they were looking
Steve: at a side hustle. Yeah. And there's a kid another kid. He was 18 years old, and he's like, I already have my own Facebook marketing agent my Facebook agency, and I'm trying to figure out how to scale it. Because, like, they were he was asking me questions.
I was like, you're 18. Yeah. Right? Like,
Lame: you ask the questions
Steve: that, like, some other people pay me Yeah.
Lame: To answer these questions.
Steve: You're 18 years old.
Lame: You're taking advantage of it, baby. Yeah. Hold it. The opportunity.
Steve: But it was really cool. So but, like, you know, the I guess, like, the good news here is, like, the kids are gonna be alright.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: Yeah. You worry with, again, with technology and the phones and social media and all the other stuff.
Lame: Yeah. That'll gonna be fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: It was really cool to witness that.
Lame: And somebody's being cultivated right now in this system because we all were, right, of seeing the flaws in the school system, seeing flaws in that, and it led to, you know, all of us finding a path that was, you know, often less walked. And Yeah. It's crazy for me to think of, especially in at the beginning stages of AI, that there is some kid out there Mhmm. 16, 18 year old that is the next Jeff Bezos, is the next Tim Cook, is the next Elon. You know what I mean?
Like and it's you know, like, to your point, we often have this doomsday effect of, like, man, school education, they're all they're all effed. You know? But somebody's gonna come up with a genius idea that I honestly thought about. You know? Well, I
Steve: mean, there was a young kid who just, disrupted the industry, you know, last week with AI. Oh. Like,
Lame: Was it that whale or something or the
Steve: DeepSeek.
Lame: DeepSeek. Yeah. Yeah. DeepSeek. Yeah.
Steve: That came out and, like, everyone's, like, crazy on Twitter, at least over the weekend. Right? Like, who knows? Yeah. In a month, we'll figure out, like, what the reality is.
Yeah. Like, it's China. Can we really believe in these things? Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, that's that is not, he's not Elon Musk.
He's a young kid in China who's, like, making this work with less resources.
Lame: Yeah. It was like apparently, it was like 1,800,000.0 versus, you know, the you know, I don't know how much has gone into chat g p t, but it was like he built it to rival it, and it's worked.
Steve: With less money. Yeah. Yeah. Less money and fewer chips.
Lame: Yeah. Exactly.
Steve: So, think about some last thoughts you want, to leave all the listeners with. I'm gonna make quick, couple quick, announcements. Guys, if you have value today, please, again, share this, subscribe, comment below, give us a five star review on, Apple, iTunes, whatever you can do to help us create more millionaires. What What are some last thoughts you'd like to leave all the listeners with?
Lame: Great question. I think, some of the last thoughts that I'll leave with and I've said this in multiple capacities in different ways. I've said it on this podcast. Money being a mindset game. Right?
There's two crucial pieces that need to happen in anybody's internal dialogue. There's two steps that need to take place here. The first one is there's somebody watching this. You're you're watching me. You're watching Steve, and you're thinking you're putting us on pedestals.
They think that we are often these people that are far and away at a place that we could only dream of achieving.
Steve: Mhmm.
Lame: And the reality of it and I'm here to tell you all that we're just like you. We are just like you. That person that you put up on a pedestal, I promise you, their shit stinks as well. You know? But the second piece that really needs to take place, once you normalize people and you put them in perspective, the second thing that needs to take place that's extremely crucial is you need to tell yourself that you're a lot more capable than you actually are telling yourself right now.
And that's the piece that is crucial for anybody in their journey. They have to tell themselves, whether they believe it or not, that they can be that person that they're often putting in a higher pedestal or a higher phase of life. Right?
Steve: Yeah.
Lame: And when you can do those two things, that's when, really, in my opinion, that's where financial success is found. Financial freedom is found is in the mindset game. Again, the greatest piece of real estate that yields the greatest ROI is the real estate between yours. Mhmm. Money money is a mindset game, and that's what it comes down to.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I appreciate you saying that because, like, I have people that, you know, I can tell, you know, in some capacity, you know, look up to me. I always sound like I'm not really anything special. Like, I'm not better than you. Yeah.
I've just been doing it longer than you. Yeah. All it really comes down to.
Lame: Absolutely.
Steve: Yeah. And this podcast is to help shortcut that Mhmm. For everybody else.
Lame: Yep.
Steve: Right? Like, what I would give to start over at 21 years old today. Absolutely. Absolutely. Alright.
Again, if someone wants to connect with you, what's the best way?
Lame: Best way is my Instagram. So at Lamed dot Kinikini. I'm sure we'll have a link somewhere, but just my name. And then, again, I have something special for your community specifically. So people watching this, just DM me disruptors.
We'll get you some information over, but, it's best way to connect me on Insta, baby.
Steve: Alright. Perfect. Thank you so much.
Lame: See you. Thanks for having me, man. This is awesome.
Steve: Thank you. Thank you guys for watching. See you guys next time.
Lame: Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. Disrupt us.
