How To Hire The Right Person

Amanda Dean: Getting into real estate was exciting, and it was fun, and I loved it, and I still do, but it was a lot of burning the candle at both ends. You know, you see these people and you're like, oh my god. I wanna be that. And you're like, what you don't see is that twenty year grind in the background. A lot of weekends, a lot of nights until you're able to bring in another lead manager, build the process, create the system with the right people in the right seats at the right time.

It's just a 10 x return. Don't hire for right now. Hire for the right person.

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. So we have Amanda Dean with Sharper Business Solutions, and Amanda flew in from Jacksonville, Florida to talk about how she's leveraged her experience doing thousands of real estate transactions to help other business owners get out of their business. And just as a quick side note, Amanda also coaches my real estate team. So when I asked her to come out here, I can I can assure you thoroughly vetted?

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Amanda: Ready.

Steve: Alright. So first question is, what was your life like right before you got into real estate?

Amanda: So I was in it's funny because I was in school. In college, I wanted to be a nurse. Right? So, and I was bartending prior to that and obviously didn't wanna be bartending my whole life. Right?

So, I was going to college, was in a, my daughter was in a wreck, and so just complicated things. I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna get a job for a minute. You know, she was my oldest was, like, two or three. I was like, and we'll I'll revisit school later.

So I I did that, and, Dan had put an ad in a bargain browser in the newspaper. This is how long ago it was. Right? Back when newspapers were our biggest source. Mhmm.

You put an ad in the newspaper looking for, an admin assistant, and so I kinda was able to get that. It was so funny when he interviewed me. I told him, I said, I'm going back to school. I want you to know this is not what I plan to do. Yeah.

Right? I could be a resource for you. You could be a resource for me, but, you know, I wanna be a nurse. And he would just joke sometimes, like, why you wanna be a nurse? I'm like, that's what I'm gonna do.

Needless to say, once I got into real estate, I loved it. I never looked back.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: And, occasionally, even five, ten years later, he would ask me, like, would you ever regret not going back to the link now? I I I never looked back, but that was where I was. But, yeah, bartending, I just, you know, didn't wanna do that forever.

Steve: So your first foray into real estate was an administrative assistant?

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. And you were saying you were going to school nursing. And then you were actually a bartender.

Amanda: Yes. I used to bartend at nights, married, three kids, you know, trying to go to college at the same time. It just, I did anything that I could do to just push forward.

Steve: Well, I asked this question because in the conversation you and I have had is you don't feel comfortable being in front on stage. Mhmm. Right? Like, I actually had to beg you to come on to this show. So how does a person who is extremely introverted or not extremely introverted, but just wants to be behind the scenes

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Find themselves in a position where they're bartending?

Amanda: I guess it just came naturally. I was good at it. I realized how much money I could make, and then I like to win. I have a high a. Mhmm.

So it it wasn't a thing that I always ask me, what'd you make tonight? What'd you make tonight? And so for me, it was more out. Other people? What are I was always asking other people because I really wanna know is did I do better or did I do worse?

Right?

Steve: Right.

Amanda: So I kinda treated it like a game a little bit, and I was really good at it. No. I made a ton of money at it. It was nothing to make 3 and $400 a day. Mhmm.

But it's a tough gig when you're married with three kids. So

Steve: This is Nashville.

Amanda: This is Nashville.

Steve: And Nashville back then like, right now, Nashville is, from what I understand, is a great bachelorette party destination. Yeah. I know

Amanda: when we became the bachelorette capital of the world, but we are.

Steve: Right. So, like, is it crazier now with the bars than it was back then?

Amanda: Probably. So funny. Jeremy and I actually both found out realized later we both bartended at, Opry Opryland Hotel in Nashville. I

Steve: think that's a big name.

Amanda: It is. It is. Yeah. Bigger clientele. You knew what the occupancy I mean, I knew what KPIs were even then.

I didn't even know what they were.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: I knew exactly what the occupancy rate is. I knew which convention was in dialing you, how much money I was gonna make, what I had to do.

Steve: You're projecting revenue.

Amanda: I was. Absolutely. I knew. I knew which groups tipped the best, I mean, the whole nine yards. And so Jeremy and I probably crossed paths at some point Mhmm.

Because we were both bartenders there at around the same time frame. But there were multiple different bars inside there. So it's a different clientele. I don't know if they could handle the downtown scene. Mhmm.

But it it was it was a lot of fun.

Steve: Yeah. And you said that your daughter was in a wreck, you said?

Amanda: Yes. So that kinda was the changing. It changed a lot. So we were in a a head on collision when she was young, and it was just I won't get into the details, but she actually had a punctured lung, and they ended up sending her to Vanderbilt Hospital, which is a big hospital. And it they you know, she's on this backboard, and they have her down, and this is for days.

And and she literally, her lung is filling up with blood. And so their her doctor is an actual surgical doctor, and they're just waiting to see if they have to go in here and and do surgery at any given time. So it was scariest moment in the world for me. I didn't even get to see a doctor myself. I was like, I don't until I know she's safe, I'm not doing anything else.

It was it was it was a very impactful moment in my life for sure. But after that so because of she had three broken ribs. She was three, and I had to keep her still. She couldn't jump. She couldn't play.

I mean, it was a lot till her ribs healed up.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: It was just a lot. And then I'd I'd try to go back to school even after the wreck. I think I went to a couple classes and was trying to get back into it, and she got pneumonia and ended up back in the hospital. And it was just one of those moments at a moment as a parent that I was just like, okay. I I just I don't know if it's a sign, but I just I gotta step back right now.

I'm trying to work nights. I'm trying to go to school. I'm trying to take care of my three year old who's, you know, got a lot going on. I was like, I just need to get it. I just need to get a regular job.

Steve: Yeah. So Dan is Dan Lane

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: With I think everyone knows if you're from Nashville, you might know the jingle. What is it?

Amanda: $2.09 9 cash. Sell your house the easy way.

Steve: Right. Yes. So you start off as an administrative assistant. Mhmm. What were your responsibilities when you started?

Amanda: It's basically what we can serve lead management today. Right? It was lead management. It was TC. You know, it's kinda it was everything that it needed he needed it to be.

Right? He would just sign the contracts, get the deals, and I kinda took care of everything else. And so it just kinda grew from that.

Steve: Was it more or less, like, some of these organizations we see right now? Like, they just started, like, two years in. Mhmm. They've got leads coming in, but it's chaotic. Is it that was

Amanda: that kind of environment? Chaotic. You know, he's so, intentional about everything he does, but he just realized he couldn't do it all anymore. And so he he really need that secondhand. And I remember when we started out, our goal was 20 deals a year.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? That was the goal. That was the goal, was 20 deals a year. So sometimes we look back, and I remember when it was 50. You know?

We were like, oh my gosh. How are we gonna do 50 deals a year? Right? And then it was a 100, and then it was two fifty.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: It's crazy.

Steve: Yeah. So at this time, was this you and Dan, or were there other people there as well?

Amanda: So it was just me and Dan for a while. Jeremy joined team, I think a few years later. Mhmm. And so, you know, from there, it kinda snowballed. We eventually end up hiring some lead managers.

We had a lot of organic growth where everybody today is kinda like, oh, you need this, this, and this. We didn't know what we didn't know.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Right? So it was just kinda like when I was at capacity and, you know, I was doing books and doing the TC and answering the phone and, you know, Jeremy started running appointments, and he would handle construction. And so it was a lot of organic growth, and we kinda never hired until the point where we just couldn't we couldn't do a particular role anymore.

Steve: When did you start working for Dan?

Amanda: 2005. Okay. My youngest, oh, was a baby too, and she was six months old.

Steve: Okay. So and I'm asking this question because I didn't know this part where you were there from not ground zero because Dan's ground zero, but, like, right after that. Because, like, I come in a collective genius. It's been, I guess, in see, in three months, it'll be four years.

Amanda: Oh.

Steve: I'll be in CG. Right? And when I showed up, I was like, oh, that's Amanda Dean. That's Jeremy. Right?

And something I've said to you before, you always laugh. It's like, you're the only person I know in CG who's always, like, first and last name.

Amanda: Yeah. Right?

Steve: Like, we don't say that's Jeremy Fish. That's just Jeremy. Right? That's Dan. That's Ren.

That's Eric. It's always it's Amanda Dean. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's a southern thing. I have no idea.

But yeah. Because I'm so, again, when I when I first came, I was like, oh, that's them. Right? And so it's again, I didn't know that you started from the beginning. So you guys just got to capacity

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And then figured out the capacity again. Mhmm. Figure out

Amanda: It was a lot of two steps forward, three steps back.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Right? And that's how, I mean, that's how most companies grow and, you know, I would always take on a seat and wanna do everything until I couldn't do it anymore. Mhmm. You know, I did, lead management, the books, finance, dispositions. I thought I wanted to be in sales until I realized I don't like people that much.

No. I'm just kidding.

Steve: Kind of.

Amanda: Okay. Kind of. But I did a lot with, with acquisitions and operations, and I was the IT, and and you just kinda organically wherever. I did property management. I was a property manager for years and years and years.

You know, I I helped with, renovating properties and doing property so it's just kind of like, I love variety anyway. So, like, I'm a lifelong I'm like, I I can do it. I can do it. Until I was like, I can't do this anymore.

Steve: Alright. So you started LeadManager. So your first responsibilities is scheduling appointments

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And transaction coordinating.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And then at some point, we figure out there's too much to do, and you bring in Jeremy?

Amanda: Yeah. Dan actually brought in Jeremy, for, I think, construction. I'm pretty sure what it was and realized real quickly if anybody's ever met, Fish, you know how charismatic, how amazing he is, that he could do good at sales. Right?

Steve: Oh, yeah.

Amanda: Crazy. Right? Mhmm. So I think he was doing both, and I think Dan was kinda burned out at the time of meeting sellers at home and and doing that part of it. So he didn't get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

So, it just kind of I think Jeremy did construction and, kinda acquisitions, and I was kinda doing the TC and the dispositions and the lead management. I said, I remember the push when we brought in EOS. It was like, we can do 50 deals a year. We're like, that's a lot.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? But yeah. No. We did. And we ran that way for a couple years.

They're pretty lean.

Steve: When did you guys bring in EOS?

Amanda: It's been it's been a long time ago. I wanna say 2014, 2015. I'm not a 100% sure.

Steve: So before '14, did you have any outside consultants?

Amanda: Mm-mm. No. I think EOS was our first one. Dan actually I'm pretty sure he worked with the, is it strategic coach? Mhmm.

Strategic coach. He was really good at, networking and and learning, and that was one of the things me and him and Jeremy always had in common. We're lifelong learners. Yeah. Right?

Really absorbing everything we could find, and he was so great about sharing it. I was like, how'd you get there? I was like, he always poured everything into us. So we we had some masterminds that we were a part of. You know, we did LeGrande.

We did the strategic we did all of that stuff, but EOS was the first, like, okay. You're operating like, you don't you need an operating system. What does that look like? Everything else is all about sales, how to close deals, how to do more. Mhmm.

That was the first one. It was like, that's great, but what does the back office look like?

Steve: Right. So you guys had not done 50 deals yet when you guys brought in EOS?

Amanda: I honestly, it's been so long.

Steve: But was there, like, a nine day difference after EOS?

Amanda: It did change the dynamic. I feel like we were all we're all high a. So we're all like, we're going this way. We're going this way. And, you know, we'd kinda be on the same page, but we would have different plans on, like, how we would do it.

And so the concept of, like, the visionary versus the integrator and what does that look like in documenting our processes because we wanted to hire people. We're like, who's gonna train them? Right? Who's that gonna look like? All the things that most entrepreneurs still go through today Right.

Which was kinda messy. So EOS really helped us kinda clarify some roles a little bit. So it really helped us eliminate a lot of the back and forth Right. That we were running into.

Steve: Did you guys then, after EOS, have a clearer roles and responsibilities?

Amanda: We did. We did. We got really better about this is your wheelhouse. This is mine. But we were always really good at collaborating together.

It's just, you know, you have two people that are that are strong willed, and one goes one way and one goes the other.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: I always joke and tell the story that, Dan and I sold the same house one time because we we just did whatever needed to happen.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: And, you know, I got a buyer, and I locked it up. And, I walk into his office, and he's like, hey. I just sold this house for I can't even remember the amount. It was x amount. And I was like, well, I just sold it for more for here.

Mhmm. And it was, like, 10 or or $20 more. He's like so he had to call his buyer back and be like, I had already sold the house. And he's like, going forward, I'm out. Just sell the houses.

Yeah. I'm not gonna do it anymore.

Steve: So that actually happened to me and Jaden last year.

Amanda: I really

Steve: Yeah. Was, I didn't know he was marketing it. Right? I didn't know he had posted an investor list, but I was like, alright. We need revenue.

Amanda: Yep. I

Steve: was gonna hit my database. Right? I'm gonna call three people, and one of them buys it. Okay. Good.

We can go focus on getting the next deal. And, like, yeah. Jay and I sold it. He's like, I was literally negotiating with someone else Mhmm.

Amanda: At a

Steve: much higher price. Damn it.

Amanda: Did you back out of yours?

Steve: We didn't because this is the peep this is my database. Right? Because, you know, like, right when when we went through that shift last year, we got real skinny.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Real leans. Like, well, Steve has to do some work too. And so I did at the cost of some revenue apparently, but, you know, we did what we have to do. Yeah.

Amanda: I will say Dan Dan supported me and and but mine was inked up, and I think he just had a verbal at that point.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: So it was it was a good point for him to be like like, hey. Sorry.

Steve: Oh, if he had got it inked, it'd be a different story.

Amanda: Yeah.

Steve: Right? But it had been inked. I was like, hey. Look. I already sold it.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Yeah. But, yeah, mine was also verbal. Yes. So, alright. So you get EOS.

You have clear, roles. What is the evolution that you guys? What were the biggest challenges, I guess, going from 20 to 50 and then 50 to a 100 and then a 100 to 250?

Amanda: A lot of pain points. You know, it was a lot of good, but I feel like from 20 to 50 was a lot of brute force. Right? It was a lot of wearing a lot of hats. You know, Jeremy and I were both kinda, you know, workaholics anyway, and Dan too.

And, you know, I I just had this standing deal where I worked every Saturday. I mean, it was nothing. My kids didn't expect me to be at home. It was the day I got the most done. I mean, it was nothing for me to be at the office at 6AM on a Saturday and I would stay there all day, and just do whatever need to happen.

So it's it was a lot of brute force. It was a lot of long hours, until we were able to bring in another, lead manager, which kinda helped a little bit, and then we brought in somebody else to kinda help with the phones a little bit. And, I mean, we kinda ran there. I think construction was our next biggest thing. We wanted to start maximizing.

And all through this, we also had, what, a a recession Mhmm. Right, the crash Yeah. In in o eight. That was interesting. Mhmm.

But we were but Dan was really smart, and we really pivoted, and we we really analyzed. We did some surrounding markets. We stayed safer. We stayed lean, and we just kept our heads down and and grinding. We weren't going for volume.

We were just going for, you know, quality of the deals, less deals. So we really we came out of that, in a really good spot even financially, and with leadership wise too as well. We had learned and we had grown and learned some things. So there's a lot of challenges along the way, mainly the ones of, like, who's doing what when. Mhmm.

Right? Like, we talk about processes and procedures and and roles and clarity, and we didn't have all that. It was just like we just kinda all just did whatever needed to happen. We stepped on each other's toes frequently Mhmm. To say the least.

So we started getting better about that. We started working with EOS and and doing org chart and doing the core values and, you know, I'm sure Dan I think he's told this story before, but when we, had to do the core values, we're trying to set up we were trying to see what that looked like. I think we're working with Frank Curtin at the time, and he came in. He's like, we're in this exercise, and we're like, no. We'll Google it later.

We'll pick five. Right? Southwest has some great stuff. We'll look and see what they got. And that was kind of our mindset, like, no.

Move on. And he's like, no. And so we go through this exercise, and it takes, like, all day. Right? We have to write these words that we think about each other and, all this other stuff, and we're looking for it was a great exercise.

I'm glad we did it. It really flushed out our core values. And that was kinda game changer for us as growth because we now knew how to hire and, you know, had that concept, like, hire and firebomb. We knew people weren't fit sometimes. Sometimes they were, but we really know what that was.

Steve: It was your gut.

Amanda: Right. It's like, kinda feel like he's okay. Maybe. And we were really bad at hiring. And so we were gun shy, which is what a lot of entrepreneurs I work with today, they're like, well, I tried that before.

I'm like, so you had one bad hire. Now you're like, oh, you don't need that role.

Steve: Yeah. I

Amanda: was like, no one bad experience. You know, you probably shouldn't let it determine how you grow your business. Yeah. But, yes, we did a lot of that. We're a lot of stepping on toes.

So we did that exercise. It really helped us kinda hone in on what we were looking for, what we were trying to do. EOS was game changer because we always just did whatever need to happen. We didn't have a plan.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: You know, that was it. It was kinda like you know, I always joke until then. It's like, we're like, well, until we both decided we don't wanna do this anymore, let's just run with it and and didn't realize we had, you know and even with Jeremy. Jeremy is such a immense part of that, growing this business, and it's just like we can't really we can't really turn off the faucet at

Steve: this point. In the weeds a 100% of the time.

Amanda: Oh my gosh.

Steve: You were never on the business. You're it was a 100% in the business grind all day every day.

Amanda: We just never knew what we were trying to accomplish either. That was a big thing. And and I work with a lot of teams like yourself on on targets and and setting goals, and we didn't have those. So that was a big thing for us. We're like, okay.

This is what we're trying to get to. This is what we're trying to do this year. Here's a plan. It kinda it really gave us structure. We knew what winning looked like, and it it was less of the wild, wild west.

Yeah.

Steve: So you guys had clarity after that.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: So what were the biggest pain points going from 50 to a 100?

Amanda: People. Hiring. I would say that's probably always been one of our biggest struggles, in documenting processes and procedures. Obviously, everybody loves that part of the business. Right?

Yeah. Process is such a sexy word. Yeah.

Steve: For the Mavericks and captains, for sure.

Amanda: Yes. But it it was hiring. Hiring was a a big struggle for us, getting the right people, how to create roles. We'd get really good at it. Mhmm.

We, you you know, really, looked for additional education. I don't know if you've done top grading.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: That was kinda game changer for us, you know, the the methodology around hiring a players.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Just not hiring people because we met them for thirty minutes. I'm like, think they'll be a good they did a good job.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So and I've had the honor, right, getting to work with your team, working with Craig, working with Samantha, like, I think Laura, right, on the Dispos side, like, high caliber, high quality people. So, obviously, you guys do something right. Yeah.

So talk about top grading. So for those that are unfamiliar with top grading, what is top grading?

Amanda: So top grading is more of a a hiring methodology, about finding a players. Right? It's not about just hiring. It's I always tell people, like, don't hire for right now. Hire for the right person.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: And and a lot of people are like, but I need somebody right now. Like, you know, what quality. So it's really about slowing down. It doesn't mean you're skipping steps in the process, but you are really, you're really digging through somebody's resume. You're you're taking a lot of different datasets and you're seeing if they match up with the person that you're interviewing.

There's a lot of great, feedback on what questions to ask and how and what a players will say and what c players will say. And so it really helps you, identify the a players. Mhmm.

Steve: So, and that was just following the book. Was there a consultant you brought in?

Amanda: No. That was just the book. Of course, we tried everything. Recruiters, we did in house recruiting. I used one of the hats that I wore was the recruiting manager

Steve: for

Amanda: a while. So we've we've worked with all kinds, and we just realized that it didn't matter where they came from. We were really bad at hiring. Mhmm. We were.

As leaders, we were really bad at hiring. So once we had the the core values kind of established and we kinda knew where we were going, then it was easier to identify, okay, who are the right people we need in the right seats. Right? And we never had this, like, oh, we wanna grow 50% or we wanna do a hundred and two hundred fifty deals. At a certain point, it was just like, we were just doing this to to get better about what we were doing.

We wanted to all be we wanted to work together. We wanted to win together as a team. So it it was game changer for us.

Steve: Anytime, again, going back to growing organically Mhmm. It wasn't forced scaling.

Amanda: Right. That was the one thing I see a ton with a lot of Mhmm. A lot of teams, and that was one thing I feel like we did really well is we're always pushing each other and pushing the boundaries, but we weren't trying to just be the the biggest and baddest and the greatest.

Steve: Scaling the scale. Correct. Yeah. So talk about that because you get to work with a lot of people. What are you seeing where people are pushing, so hard to scale?

Amanda: I feel like we're in annual planning. Right? Everybody's kinda going into 2024. What are we trying to accomplish this year? And It's

Steve: actually why you're here.

Amanda: You're doing

Steve: our quarterly for our wholesale team tomorrow.

Amanda: Absolutely. And it everybody's like, okay. Well, we can do and they'll just pick a number. You know? They'll be like, we can do 200 deals this year.

I'm like, okay. Cool. What did you do last year? 60. Okay.

So how are we getting from 60 to 200? Well, we know we can do it. Okay. But why are we doing that? Mhmm.

Because I feel like we can. So and so does it. And that's one of the dangers of masterminds. Love them. Right?

But you go there, and so and so is doing 300 deals. I should be able to do 300 deals, and they I don't know if it's a prestige thing or just a you know, there's just the apples to compare. But

Steve: Well, is it what you were talking about earlier? Like, you know, would you get tips tonight? Like, for me, it was in school Yeah. What you get in that test? Yes.

Or would you oh, okay. Right. And if I did better, I just wouldn't tell them what I got. So there's always a contest.

Amanda: Everything's a contest.

Steve: Yeah. So, yeah, so going 60 to a 100 or 60 to 200, and that was me, the less mature version of myself. I had to say that I am mature, just less mature, was we'd always check, oh, we did, you know, 30 transactions. Let's go to 60. Oh, we did 60 transactions to a 100.

Mhmm. Did a 100? Let's do 200. I have every bit as guilty as that. Right?

So, like, how do you talk to someone out of doing that?

Amanda: It's not all talk them out of it. I'm here to support every team and what they wanna do. What I really wanna dig in with them and then assess them is what does your resources look like? Mhmm. Right?

I was with one specific team, and they wanted to double double their business over last year. And they're like, I've talked to the CFO, and they think we can do this. So I was like, okay. Well, what resource? So we looked at what resource they wanted last year and what they have this year.

So you have no more additional resources than you had last year.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: And our team's sitting there, and they're looking at her, and they're exhausted. They won big this year. They were wore out. Mhmm. And they're like, we're on board, but not until we fill x, y, and z seats.

Right? Mhmm. So really trying to help them build a plan. It's like, I think you can do anything you wanna do, but let's build a road map for what that looks like.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Otherwise, we just burn we we burn out our team. We burn out everybody around us. We burn out.

Steve: Yeah. So, fortunately, I haven't had to experience burnout, but I've definitely burnt out my team. So at Paul Sparks, you know, we do a well club together, and that's one of the things one of the realizations I had last year was that we set these quarterly agendas or commitments, and then we hit them, but we don't hit them gracefully. We hit them, and we're haggard. We're we're, like, we're stressed.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: And then what do we get? What's the reward for doing a good job? More. More work, more scale, more responsibilities, and more objectives. And so, again, like, last year was the first year.

I was like, maybe instead of I try to conquer all these things, let's just focus on two things that we for sure wanna conquer.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And let's just operate at 70% of, capacity knowing that Steve will drop more fires along the way. Yes. Right? So instead of operating a 100% capacity and then Steve dropping more stuff in your lap, let's let's operate at 70% capacity knowing that Steve will get you to red line.

Amanda: Well, I feel like the quarterly planning sessions too. A lot of people come up, and I'll see them. I'll I'll I'll jump in there and be like, 10 commitments. Right? And they're like, what is your annual plan?

It goes back to that. I'm gonna tell people, like, the reason we do that so every quarter, we can revisit that. And so we're not stuck in the minutiae of what's going on right now. What are our pain points? What are we trying to do?

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? I think Austin McCurdy is the one that's telling me a story about, you know, like, you think about NASCAR. Right? Those cars are constantly running, but they pit stop intentionally. They'll wait till they run out of gas till somebody run out with a gas.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Right? They're very intentional about those pit stops.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: You know, they're they're checking on the car. They're tune fine everything, and then they're getting back on the road. And we kinda look at those quarterlies as the same way. Yeah. It's like, hey.

You're you're running, but, like, let's stop and double check everything, make sure we're focused on the right things. And I find a lot of times teams are foe again, whatever their biggest pain point is right now, but, like, let's go back. What are we trying to accomplish this year? Right? And let's make sure that our our commitments are geared towards success of what that looks like Mhmm.

And not just reacting to whatever the pain point is in our life right now.

Steve: Right. So going back to your journey, so a 100 for 50 to a 100, the biggest pain point is people.

Amanda: People.

Steve: My understanding so you tell me if I'm wrong. My understanding is that is just the last frontier. So what are the other pain points from going to a 100 to 200 to 250?

Amanda: Marketing, leads. Right? Then, it becomes, you know, kinda in the market shifts a little bit too. So we're kinda mindful of that. You know, we're blessed to be doing a lot of marketing channels.

I mean, Dan's been doing TV for, you know, ten years now. So we were we were blessed enough that we got in early on the inbound leads. We're doing a lot of outbound stuff, but yeah. Then it becomes, it becomes scale, becomes construction. It becomes processes.

Mhmm. The the procedures and the processes really from 100 to 200. How do we get multiple people doing the same thing the same way? Right? How do we add it to our

Steve: customers? Franchise.

Amanda: Right. Like, now we don't have one lead manager we have four. Right? How do we make sure they're answering the phone, they're saying the same thing, they're putting in the system the same way, that, you know, acquisitions reps are are saying the same thing. So that's where it become a challenge was, like, getting the people hiring is always a challenge, but now it's like, okay.

How how do we build this out so that everybody knows what they're doing?

Steve: Right. So how did you address that?

Amanda: It was painful. It was so painful. I get it to a root canal. And sometimes he'll be like, we're awful at, you know, I would I'm being generous when he's like, we suck at documenting stuff. And I'm like, no.

We document it. We just don't maintain it. Mhmm. They're like, yep. This is how you do this.

And then, you know, we'd look back six months, and we're like, oh, yeah. We don't do that at all anymore. Mhmm. So realizing that people are like, oh, you got document processes. That's not it's not a task.

Mhmm. It's not something you do one time.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: It's something that you have to maintain and

Steve: I wish it was something we all had to do one, though.

Amanda: That's why I was like, I documented everything. It's irrelevant now. But, so it it was trying to stay in that. It was you know, in growth, it's a lot of when do you need to hire the next person.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: You know, you wait until somebody's over capacity, or are you hiring somebody now before you know you're gonna get there? You're projecting Mhmm. These type of deals and these type of sales. And so it was just staying relevant. It was staying you know, it was getting making sure we were getting the leads, making sure we had repeatable processes, making sure everybody on the team, you know, was was rowing the same way.

We're going in the same direction, and that was challenging.

Steve: Mhmm. Well so updating the process. So first, documenting the process procedures

Amanda: document it.

Steve: And then continually updating it.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: And the last thing, particularly with salespeople, is how do we get them to follow it consistently? So how do you get your people to consistently follow the process procedures?

Amanda: I feel like salespeople just get all they're their own. Right? I I I tell people, I'm like, here in every other area of the business, I'm like, here's the box. With salespeople, I'm like, here are the bumpers. Please just stay inside the bumpers.

Right? They need grace, and they need a little bit of of wiggle room in that. And and to credit Jeremy, you know, we always pushed on we gotta make things as easy as possible for them. You know, I was always focused on the seller and the customer. We're constantly, like you know, we try to make sure we didn't create process that were easy for us but difficult for them.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: And he would do the same for the salespeople. How do we make things as easy for them as possible? So everything they didn't like to do is, like, can somebody else do it? Can the assistant do it? Can it automate to do it?

So we're literally, to the point, it's like, all you gotta do is show up by the house. Like, wait. That's all you gotta do. That's it. Right.

I mean, you only have to turn in the paperwork. Just take a picture of it. I mean, we make it as easy as possible.

Steve: Yeah. It's compliance and salespeople don't go hand in hand.

Amanda: No. It doesn't even exist.

Steve: Yeah. I actually was in a mastermind where Eddie Speed was talking on creative finance.

Amanda: Mhmm. And he

Steve: talked about the importance of compliance. Right? Because you don't wanna go to jail.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Fair points. And I asked him I was being sarcastic. I was like, can you say that word again? I didn't really know what that word was. And he kinda looked at me funny.

He's like, oh, I see what you're saying.

Amanda: Yeah.

Steve: Right? But, yeah, following processes and procedures, not a salesperson skill set.

Amanda: Correct. But you want people to do what? You want salespeople to show up and be able to be good at what they're doing. Mhmm. Right?

And their energy levels are different than a lot of other teams that you typically have in this industry, and just making sure that things were as easy for them as possible. Not Okay. Like, you know, crazy, but, like, hey. Like, if you don't like doing CRM work, great. Somebody else can do it for you.

Right? Talk to text. Make it simple. But we wanna make sure that they're working in their genius zone as much as possible.

Steve: Yeah. So I still go on appointments.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: I ask my team, you know, get me on the field. Keep me fresh. Whatever. And I don't go into Salesforce to log in the notes.

Amanda: I I've heard. Yeah. I think it's been on the issues list a few times.

Steve: It might have been. But what I do do is I actually go into, Google chat.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: I just write down everything that I wrote from the appointment. Right? Like, the last one, you know, hey. I know I don't believe we have the wife's cell. So, like, I asked for a cell before I walked out Mhmm.

In case it's an elderly couple, in case we need to reach her, right, and some other notes. Alright. Here's the notes. You guys figure out what you guys do in Salesforce, but here's everything I remember from the appointment.

Amanda: That's fair enough.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah. As long as we're conveying that information, I feel like that's good. Like, we always joke and say the talk to text button. Mhmm. When you're in your car on the way home, push the text, and you can literally just, like, if I'm sitting across from you, tell me everything I need to know Right.

And I'll get it updated for you.

Steve: Right. Yes. Okay. So you guys do, 250 transactions.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And that is wholesale and flip.

Amanda: Yeah. So, pretty diverse. We, you know, have a lot of buying holds, rental properties, so a property management, and then, you know, wholesaling, fix and flips, a lot of creative deals, you know, especially when you see the novations and and just trying to be relevant to what's out there. But just kind of a little bit of everything, a lot of diversification, which is complicated.

Steve: Right. So how many houses were you guys flipping at any one time?

Amanda: I mean, it really varies. I'll be honest with you. I'm trying to think. I mean, we I think they could do up to about 20 plus Yeah. At a time.

We have the capacity. I I wish construction worked where you you had that even flow, and I see that with teams. Nobody has it. Right? It's like you get eight houses and then you get two, and it's this constant roller coaster.

Everybody's trying to, like, work through the team.

Steve: Kinda hard to streamline.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: Yeah. So I see some teams that just flip.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: I see other teams that just wholesale.

Amanda: Mhmm. Right?

Steve: And I've put it out there. I'm a reluctant flipper. I will flip it if that's the only exit we have. But if we can wholesale it for less, just take less. I don't even wanna think about it.

Why do you guys have a hybrid?

Amanda: Again, just so you can maximize those profits. Right? You know, wholesale in in any industry and I talk to everybody, it's the same thing. Also, just as a shorter cash conversion cycle.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: In this business, that's really what everybody's trying to get to is this consistent cash flow.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Because that's where everybody's like, you know, I've I've I I've got money coming in, but I won't see it for sixty days. And so wholesale is really just a shorter cash conversion cycle that you're able to to turn deals over. The the retail side was really, you know, the fix and flip is really just about maximizing the the opportunity Mhmm. As much as possible.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: And we're able to really spread that out and kinda go into some outer edges and some rural areas and other markets. And, you know, we really would just wholesale those.

Steve: You have to be really good at flipping, though, in order for that to work. Mhmm. So what did you guys do to separate yourself from most other flippers? Because most other flippers most other people that try to have a hybrid is an ongoing challenge. So what did you guys do so that you guys could flip well consistently?

Amanda: Well, we tried and failed a lot of things. Right? Mhmm. As most people do. I will say Jeremy had a construction background, and so he really had a vision for construction Okay.

Construction Okay. And really pushed on that with, you know, we we would butt heads a lot because it's yeah. It kinda felt like construction a lot of times was a little heavy on the personnel side, and it would be too lean. And construction is just tough. It is not for the weak of heart.

Having to work with contractors, get people to show up, get somebody to check the projects. I mean, we probably had a higher turnover in construction when we did any other area of the business. Down from director of construction to every project manager to everything in between. Well,

Steve: and that's kind of my thing. Like, there's all sorts of different reasons I've made the arguments before against flipping.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: But the last one for me is I already deal with crazy salespeople. I don't need any crazy subs. Mhmm. Like, I already have enough in my on my plate. So knowing that the personnel issue was even more challenging Mhmm.

I mean, obviously, the juice was worth a squeeze because you guys kept doing it. But how much more were you maximizing? Like, what was your average, profit on a flip versus average wholesale?

Amanda: I mean, it was probably double to three times the the buy. Right? So, you know, if we could, wholesale something and make 10 or 15, we probably could make 50, if not more on on a on a flip. So Got it. We were really good at it.

Like I said, it was a lot of challenges, one of those areas, and and we would joke all the time, but, like, construction was just brain damage to to some degree.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: And so there's a lot of times where we're just like, we just don't wanna do it, but we needed to do it, right, in order to grow the company and what we wanted to do and to really sustain. And and the comp it really grew to be about the people. You know?

Steve: That was one

Amanda: of the things I really loved about working with Dan. You know, he's such a genuine people person, and he was like, I'm you know, at this level, I'm not doing this volume just to get more. Right? He's like, I'm

Steve: doing it

Amanda: for you guys and and for the whole team. And so we really looked at, like, how can we win together, and we really needed to be able to maximize that. So it just forced us to and it comes back to processes and procedures. Right? I spent a lot of time there going, why do you do this?

Why do you do this? Right? Let me help you with this. What are we doing here? Right.

So Jeremy always had the vision, and I'm the one walking behind him going, how do we do it, and how do we do it better? Right? How do we push forward here? How do we document this?

Steve: What were some of the biggest victories while you're working with with Dan?

Amanda: So many. I can't even begin to tell you. You know, one of the things that we had a lead manager one time, and I always get a lot of questions about lead management from clients. And, you know, she I was like, what do you find that works the best? And she worked with us for ten years, and she was 60.

She retired. Like, most people would not even consider hiring somebody that age in lead management. But she could just do she could say things to sellers that I couldn't say. The other DU couldn't say.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: She just was their she was their demographic. Right? So it was amazing to watch her, and she actually got to retire and and moved forward. She worked with the team for ten years, and she's one of my all time favorite people. We did a deal, and this has been just recently the whole team really rallied around it.

We got to where we really focused on giving back, and that was a huge win, getting to see deals where we actually helped people. Right? Like, we at that volume, it's hard to really like, you almost become a factory a little bit. You don't see all the deals.

Steve: Disconnected from it.

Amanda: Very much. And, it's really resonates with me and resonating with the whole team. We got this deal, and this I'm gonna quickly summarize as quickly as I can because I know we're we're on here. But, this manager called from Lixby's Place, and and this little kid who's 18 just turned 18, living in his car. He was homeless.

His car didn't run, and he had a dog out there, and all he did was work. And, apparently, he has had inherited a house, but it was uninhabitable. Squatters had taken it over, and so he was just leaving his car. And this is a week before Thanksgiving, not this past year, but the year before. And so just I don't talk about all the heartstrings, tug.

My, you know, acquisitions guy called, and he's like, hey. You don't understand. Like, we gotta we gotta figure out how to do this. Like, we gotta do it quickly. And so, you know, he gives me the details on it, and I don't ever get involved in deals at that point.

And this was a whole team effort. And so I'm looking at it. I can't get title back soon enough. I wanna help this kid as quickly as I can, but you know as well as I do right before Thanksgiving what is, like, the world shuts down in real estate. Right?

So I just know I'm not gonna get it back, and I called in. I was like, we're putting this kid in a hotel. I was like, I don't care if I gotta pay for it out of pocket. You know, we don't care what we gotta do. Everybody here wanna chip in, but none of us can just be okay with this kid sleeping in his car.

And it's down in, like, the 20 degrees. Car doesn't run. So, anyway, we go up there. Director of construction or ops manager go get him. They take him to an extended end.

We find one that takes dogs. There's people that are donating stuff for him. We make sure like, we don't care. He's not gonna be sitting there like this. So complicated title situation, obviously, inherited.

There's some additional, owners that are, you know, into the recreational drugs. It was every level of difficulty Mhmm. That you could imagine in these situations. But, anyway, the whole team just really rallied up. This this kid was amazingly sweet, barely talked, but, our ops manager got somebody she knew to fix his car for free.

They towed it and fixed it for free. We were able to put him into one of our rentals. We're able to buy his house. We're able to get it for him. We helped him get furniture.

We set him up with financial peace. Like, we were all just, as a team, so vested in this kid. It was just one of those things that was one of those, like, we didn't make a dime off that deal. Like, we didn't nobody cared. Like, that those were the moments.

There are so many of them that I can't even I can't even begin to tell you, but that was the most recent one. It was really a a big heartstring, and everybody on the team, you know, it didn't matter, but it's like, I'll I'll give you money. I'll like, that's how vested we were as a team.

Steve: Yeah. Well, that's awesome. So along the way, you said you you got EOS approximately 15. When you guys joined Collective Genius?

Amanda: 2015. I'm pretty sure. It it was, I always joke and tell people, like, I show my age, right, when I start talking about how long I've been in this industry and and in this field. But, I'm pretty sure it's around twenty fifteen. I feel like it was, like, one it was, like, maybe a 100 people, probably a little bit more, but it was one week.

It was one group. Mhmm. There were one multiple. So it was such a giving community. And, you know, back then, it was you know, as COOs came up, nobody really talked about COOs or what they did or and then it kinda become a fad.

Everybody needed a COO. Mhmm. I'm sure you've heard that. But really building that community, building a yeah. I was able to really build some relationships with, like, Ryn Bartlett and, you know, Matt Perry and, you know, we kind of, really built a community around that as well too.

So it was just amazing. Like, I feel like that was we were really good at what we were doing. EOS helped us get there and then, you know, those masterminds were were gasoline on the fire. Yeah. Right?

They're all the missing pieces that we didn't have to figure out.

Steve: Right. Well, that makes a lot of sense. And I wasn't there for the fad where everyone had to hire a COO.

Amanda: Yeah.

Steve: But I do know that that was a missing piece within it for some time, whereas, basically, like you were saying, like, you, Matt, and and Ren were like, hey. We're COOs. We're getting bombarded with these visionary ideas from masterminds. What the hell are we supposed to do?

Amanda: I used to joke and tell people I was and I still tell Meli, I'm I'm a star support group for integrators. It's the it was the missing piece.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Right?

Steve: So, you know, talk about that from the integrator perspective because I was like Dan. I would go to strategic coach. I would go to these events and oh, I got all these brilliant ideas. Here's what you gotta go implement.

Amanda: Yeah. That was definitely some some struggles we had. I I was joking. You know, he used to go to to CG before me and Jeremy started joining with him. Yeah.

And we were probably one of the few people in the room initially that weren't owners. Right? We weren't the business owners. We were there because, you know, we were essentially the ones doing, you know, running the business. And so How does

Steve: make the business actually work?

Amanda: Right. We were, I remember when he sent me an email all the time. It was CG week, and I literally sent an email back, and with a signature on it said, hashtag FML CG week. You know? Because I knew what that was gonna look like for me.

Right? Yeah. And so EOS was really helpful because that was one of those areas that could be like you know, he would come back with a thousand ideas, and they would, and I'd be like, yes, no, not yet. You know what I mean? It wasn't just no, but it was like, yep.

Yep. We're gonna knock that one out real fast. Nope. We are absolutely not doing that. And, yes, this is just this is a great idea.

This is just not a right now. Mhmm. So they had to have a place they could come back and drop all those ideas, but they also part of the agreement was I get to be the one to say, yes, no, not yet. Mhmm. Right?

And so implementation, they knew that fell on to me. So and then I started going to CG, which was an eye opener. I got a ton of value out of that. And an EOS is really good, but it really only it it was only a piece of it. Mhmm.

Right? And that's kinda where we started working with Sharper and working with some other coaches along the way, and really it's like scaling up. We all read scaling up.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: But it you know, Sharper really added the tactical side of it for us. It was more about the leadership. Right? Like, we we had grown, but we had grown by brute force. Mhmm.

And that was the thing. It's like it was almost so painful to a degree. It's like we had a lot of wins, but, you know, there are times Jeremy and I would be sending emails, and I joke about this because it's true. It was all the time. 03:00 in the morning, 02:00 in the morning.

I'd be posting something in the CRM, and he would reply back. And I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, what are you doing? And we ended up having a whole conversation because we're both working at 2AM in the morning.

Steve: Yeah. So talk to me about the dynamic in you being able to say yes, no, not yet. Because I don't think I already guessed. Maybe less than half the people listening right now will be on board with that. No.

So talk to me about that agreement and how that dynamic, came about.

Amanda: Yeah. It was it was as we started getting into more structure of what we were doing, but, ultimately, they would try to push stuff forward and realize it just wouldn't go anywhere. Mhmm. Right? They had a lot of the vision.

I never had to I was never showing up going, I wanna do this. I wanna do that. I love to remove obstacles and hurdles. Right? I love puzzles.

I love all that stuff. So when I'd see something like, hey. We can do this. We can implement how. And we just really had mutual respect for we really worked on our strengths and our weaknesses.

Right? We always joke and said ying and yang. Mhmm. So they respected me enough. And there would be times that they would try to talk me into something or they would just kinda push on a little bit, and they're like, yeah.

But I really think I'm like, yeah. But it's not gonna happen. So, you know, we fight against a lot, but that's why we were able to do so much more because it was never like, no. Absolutely not. For the most part, it's like, hey.

Let's revisit this. This isn't part of what we're trying to do this year. It's like, let's stay focused. Because we realized when we chased all these shiny objects, we got nowhere.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: We did that for a lot of years. So when we started really working the system like we did, like I said, a lot of times, I was really you know, been like, yeah. We can do that. And a lot really, there wasn't a whole lot of no's. It was just like, we're probably not ready for that or not yet.

And visionaries just really like, even going into sessions, quarterly sessions, we'd have a vision strategy session. I tell people, I tell them, like, you're you're you need to have a vision strategy. Visionaries need the opportunity to have those conversations. Let's talk the big ideas. Let's otherwise, they do it there and try to just force their will.

Steve: Like, let's let them talk about their feelings for a little bit.

Amanda: Well, no. It's like, let's talk. Like, you need that. Visionaries need that. And I tell integrators all the time and and CEOs and ops managers I work with them, like, it cannot just be a no.

Like, they have to understand, like, they they're here because they're really good at what they do. Mhmm. We they gotta have that space. We gotta be able to talk about those big ideas. There's some there's a lot of gold nuggets in there.

Mhmm. Not everything. It's no different. You get a 100 leads and you get 10 deals. You know what I mean?

90% of it's gonna be nothing, but we gotta we gotta have a space for that in business.

Steve: And that's our rule. In our office, everyone's allowed to say no.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: They just have to say what it has to be Mhmm. To make it a yes. And then we could figure out, okay. I'm I'm okay with that. Or, oh, if that's what it takes, then forget it.

So, again, going back then, how can you encourage again, if if everyone is listening, how would you encourage them to empower their COO or their, administrative team to push back? Because I think one thing is that we have these ideas or either we think we have all the right answers or we think we know more or whatever, and we just kinda shove ideas down our organization. So how can you encourage someone listening to incorporate more of what you guys had?

Amanda: Yeah. And I do a lot of coaching, in this area too. That's why I really feel like I get the most enjoyment working with teams and and leaders, and it's like, you can say and they really don't know how to have those conversations. Right? And that was one thing I feel like we're really good at was transparency and candid conversations and telling people, like, you can have you need healthy conflict to grow a business.

Right? Or it's just gonna go stale.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: You can say anything to anybody just like you can with your spouse. Mhmm. Right? You just have to say it with respect and tact.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: So it's like, hey. Let's talk about this. Right? What does this look like? What do you envision?

What are you trying to to overcome? Because nine times the 10 visionaries idea, they shove it down there, they keep going into it, they realize it crashes some other, and it's like, oh, yeah. We shouldn't do that. I'm like, why could I save you a lot of time? Mhmm.

Right? So it's really encouraging people, like, to your point, like, if you can say no to anything, how does it get there? A lot of people just don't know how to have those conversations. Let's talk about that.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Right? Let's be honest with each other on what we're trying to accomplish. And, again, just I feel like the base part is just have the conversation. Don't be don't be afraid of the conflict.

Steve: Yep. And one of my favorite books, was, Leadership is Language.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And, basically, I would say I I I I would always say, hey. You know, Amanda, I want us to have an open conversation. So if you see anything, just let me know. Right?

And what we learned from that book is, like, no. That still doesn't work. Because that that still requires you to challenge me. Mhmm. So now it's, hey, Amanda.

Here's here's what I'm thinking. Like, what are you seeing that I'm not seeing? And now I'm inviting you Right. To tell me what I'm not seeing so I create more psychological safety versus before, like, hey. Just let me know if you don't if there's anything you don't like, you're like, is this the one I wanna start this fight on?

Amanda: Right. Is this the hill I wanna die on? Right? This is where I'm gonna plate my flag?

Steve: Right.

Amanda: And it's so funny. I I feel like that's where a lot of leadership that you know, I work with a lot of teams. It's and I feel like they can. It's just how to have those conversations, how to to be candid and open and transparent. Mhmm.

And being a leader is giving the other person, like you said, And if I have to somebody says that they're not hitting their numbers, like, what do you do? And I'm like, well, it's really I don't go in there and be like, oh my gosh. You're you know? And I joke because I I hate pips. I don't do a pip.

I think they're worthless pieces of paper. It basically says, it's not, it's not if I'm gonna fire you, it's just when. Mhmm. But, really, I like to go let's look at this and go, hey. You've been down for, like, three weeks in a row.

Like, what are you seeing? Like, what can I do to help you? Mhmm. Right? Tell me give me some ideas of how you can get your numbers up.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Like, versus coming here and being, like, all sales teams, like, well, if you don't get your numbers up, I don't know that there's a place for you on the team. How encouraging is that? Right? It's not

Steve: very encouraging.

Amanda: Not at all.

Steve: Yeah. So that's an interesting perspective. So you don't like pips. And, like, this seems to be like it's a pretty polarizing figure. Right?

It's like either you do pips or you don't do pips.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: Right? I I I don't see a lot of, like, middle of the road feelings on this. So are you, why are PIPs worthless?

Amanda: I feel like the way people look at them is, you know and when I get a PIP and and it comes from that corporate world of, like, this is your, like I

Steve: shouldn't be worried yet. What's a PIP?

Amanda: Personal improvement plan. Right? There's a couple different whatever that goes with it. But, basically, like like, if you're gonna give somebody a warning. Right?

Basically, you know, Steve, you're not hitting your numbers. I'm gonna put you on a PIP. Mhmm. And you're gonna have x amount of time to turn your stuff around. So, basically, I'm telling you, I'm putting you on notice.

Mhmm. And a lot of places will look like us. I'm just crossing my t's and dotting my i's.

Steve: So when I let this

Amanda: person go

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah. I'm covered. But I don't feel it does they're like, well, they'll turn it around. Like, I don't feel like that's I've never seen it happen. In my experience in almost twenty years, I've I've hardly ever seen anybody turn around a PIP at all whatsoever.

And, really, what we wanna do is, like, hey. This isn't like, tell me what's going on with you. Like, how can I help you? Because you're struggling right now. I can see you're struggling.

Steve: You can

Amanda: see you're struggling. Like, you know, we can have a review and talk about it, but when people get that PIP, if they're not already on LinkedIn looking for a job, they probably are now. Mhmm. Like, I just feel like people don't try as hard. They either check out a lot faster or there's some grudge here.

Like, it just it widens the gap of what we're trying to accomplish. If I'm trying to help you get back to where I know you can be, putting you on a a ninety day performance plan probably isn't gonna get you there.

Steve: Alright. So let's do something different. What would be the arguments for doing a PIP?

Amanda: One, obviously, to dot your eyes. Right? Cross your t's. Make sure you're covered on that. It is intentionally to tell you, like, hey.

Specifically, this is what I need you to do. Right? You wanna kinda cover it like, hey. This is what you're doing well. This is what you're not doing well.

These are specific next steps. I feel like you can do all of that without having, like, that official PIP. Yeah. I really want you to acknowledge. If you if I sit around in a conversation and you can't acknowledge that you're struggling or not and strong, you're like, no.

I'm I'm good. There's nothing wrong. Okay. Well, maybe this just really isn't the team for you. Right?

So I just I have personally never got the intended outcome that I was looking for. I feel like I really wanna build a plan with you, and I'm really gonna put it on you. Mhmm. I'm really gonna ask you, like, Steve, you know, what do you feel like is causing your numbers to be so low? Where where are you struggling at?

You know, a lot of times with sales students where a lot of people have them, it is mental objections in their head. They've created these scenarios that haven't happened. I wanna help them. I wanna coach them. I don't wanna sit down and put them like, you don't improve in ninety days.

You don't have a job here anymore.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. It's tough because I've I was on your page.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And now I'm like, it's worthy of something in writing.

Amanda: I'm not saying you shouldn't do it in writing. I just I don't subscribe to, like, the PIP and how we do it. And like I said, I'm gonna have you pull the plan Mhmm. And then we're gonna put it together. Absolutely gonna document everything.

Everybody knows me as a high d. Mhmm. But I don't have to necessarily address it like, hey. I've got a PIP for you. Yeah.

Right? Because at the end of the PIP, it's like, hey. If you don't turn us around. Right? Mhmm.

Oh,

Steve: yeah. No. That's that's very clear.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: Yeah. As, Ryan, he calls it a PIP slap. Alright? Yeah. Yeah.

So alright. Now you recently parted ways and went off to do your own thing.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? So, again, everything I know from you before was working with Dan

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: SEG. We hang out. Right? Sometimes at the bars. Right?

And Me

Amanda: at the bar never.

Steve: And so you decided to do your own thing. You're in a different, season in your career now. Mhmm. So talk to me about because, like, twenty years is or however many that's that's a career.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: That's not a pit stop.

Amanda: Yes. It definitely wasn't. And everybody asked me, you know, when you left, like, what made you decide to leave? And they're kinda surprised that I'm not there anymore. And most people know, and I don't know if they're looking for a a salacious story, and there's really not one.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: It was a very well planned, executed exit. Right? To the point where I knew and Dan knew, like, it it was no shock. We had talked about it for years, and, you know, I was really invested in that business for a lot of years, and I feel like it was it was family at some point. Mhmm.

But, you know, once I got to a different season, my kids are out of the house and my husband are are empty nesters, and, you know, I love to travel. I love to do stuff. And I was like, hey, guys. You know, where you guys wanna go doesn't necessarily line up where I wanna go, but I wanna help you get there. Mhmm.

So we built a plan. Right? We had a five year plan, a three year plan. It kinda got sad as it got closer to time, but we built a really good leadership team. And even for the last year, you know, one of the plans was I was just gonna stay around and and really from kind of a consultant place.

And it was really tough because I just wanna be like, oh, we should do it. You know? So really trying to step back a little bit, but it it just worked out really well. Like I said, I felt like I was almost to a point where, you know, some people stay on team too long. Like, I loved everything about Genesee and Lombardi.

I got a ton out of it. I hope they got as much out of it as I did. But at the same time, people have to leave and move on so other people can step up. You know, really good ops manager, really good you know, every city that I gave up, eventually, I would realize the person that came in behind me really did it much better than I did. Right?

So you can almost hinder growth. So it was it was nothing salacious. It was a great move. Actually, put in you know, we talked about that. I had no clue where I was gonna land.

Mhmm. Right? Planner. I'm I'm a strategist. So it's probably one of the the more things I was looking at.

But, you know, and working with Sharper was really you know it kinda came in after all of this stuff Mhmm. On the long run. So but it really worked out for the best. But it it was nothing it was nothing big. It was nothing Well, yeah.

Steve: I and I think that's the the big thing. You kinda talked about the empty nester.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And as you said, I was like, man, I'm twelve years away from that.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? But it's that there's a season, and once you're no longer obligated to live there, now you have other options.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: So, why why work at Sharper?

Amanda: I really feel like you know? And we'd we'd I was listening to your podcast not long ago with Paul about the the why doesn't matter. Mhmm. You know? And I agree.

We don't know the why when we're younger, but I figured it out later. And I realized that the why really was with Tennessee Motors the longest time, but it didn't it didn't meet my why anymore.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? And my why really at the end of the day was, you know, I wanted to, what I wanted to give back was I wanted to invest in others had others had done to me. And I have had pours of counselors and coaches and mentors over the years, and I was in a place I feel like I could give back. Right? I get a lot of calls from from other members like, hey.

Can I come to an office visit, or can we do this? And so, it really was able it it gave me an opportunity to give back, and I have a a a love variety. You know, it's at a point where I had just out grown that role, and they had really outgrown me. They have a lot of big plans, and and they're gonna step it up. And I just wasn't you know?

I was like you said, I was in a different season. Right? And my husband traveled. We were just in New York City, and we're we're in Phoenix now. So

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: You're able to go do what you wanna do when you wanna do it.

Steve: Yeah. I'm looking forward to the to those days.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: And you kinda mentioned a moment ago, you were saying that looking back, it seems like everyone is doing Google better than you were doing it. And this kinda goes back to a concept from strategic coach. I've only heard it there, which is basically, there are two different types of, managers. You got project managers and you have process managers. Project managers are like, here's an initiative.

I need you to build out this process. I need you to build this procedure. I need you to build out this department or, you know, build a construction. Like, it's like, go build this. And that's takes one person to go create it.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And then after that's created, you got a different manager, which is a process manager.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: They'll execute at a high level time and time again. They may not be the best person to go start a new initiative.

Amanda: Correct.

Steve: But they can crush this role because they were hired for this role.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: So I think when you're saying, like, looking back, like, they kinda are better at it. It was probably because you're better at creating Mhmm. Maybe not doing the same thing over and over again.

Amanda: Yeah. That definitely doesn't, it doesn't feed in my thing. But it it it made me realize how much I enjoyed seeing other people succeed. Right? And being able you know, a lot of times and I I work with entrepreneurs every day with Sharper that, you know, they're holding on to stuff, and they're like, I'm the only one that can do this.

I'm the only one who can do this. And I'm like, I don't know. You know? We all gotta get there. But I would realize when I'd step out of a role and and I would just be there to mentor and work with somebody else, and I'm like, man, it would just go crush it.

And that gave me it made me feel amazing to get to see them Yeah. Really excelling at something where I'm trying to do five things. I'm really I'm really altering growth because that was a big time probably with the company that I probably entered a lot of growth. Right? Because I wasn't willing to give up seats.

Mhmm.

Steve: I

Amanda: wasn't willing to get out of the way. I thought I was the only person that could do marketing. Right? And did marketing for the longest time, but I was the only person who could do property management.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: I was the only person that could talk to those.

Steve: I was

Amanda: the person who could dispose property. But realizing that when we build the process, we we create the systems that need to happen with the right people in the right seats at the right time. It's just a 10 x return.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Right? And people realizing, like, you should always try to hire somebody to do a job better than you can do it.

Steve: Absolutely. Yes. So what is a CSO?

Amanda: Okay. So SharperCSO, is a a Sharper product. They just came out with, I think, last year. It's really good. So, obviously, I don't want to I didn't I didn't wanna leave there and step into another CRO role, so they've kinda created the Sharper.

It's a Chief Sharper officer. Right? So a lot of people team different sizes, different areas of their business or different phases. But, a CSO is I'm a chief sharper officer, which means that I'm here to help kinda guide and and work with you on a fractional basis. Mhmm.

We do set calls, you know, help you with quarterly planning, annual planning, whatever your needs are, and try to help you stay focused. As business leaders, whether your team is five, whether it's 10, or whether it's 50, you don't always feel like you have that support that you need. So I am that person that kinda, you know, walk with you and be like, okay. What do you? Working on marketing.

We're going through the RISE curriculum, which, anyway, anybody that hasn't been through is amazing. You know, Gary Harper and and Susan really poured their heart and soul in that, and it's, it's it's amazing. But really trying to help people get from being in the business to on them. You know, getting out of the business and working on the business.

Steve: Yeah. So why should a person that's listening right now look into getting a sharper coach

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Working on their business?

Amanda: A lot of people are just they don't know what they don't know. And that's one of the biggest things. And they have all these ideas and plans, and they just the biggest thing that the biggest feedback I get from teams is they don't know how to get out of the day to day. Mhmm. They feel like they're reacting all the time.

I talk to people all the time, and they're like this comes up. I'm sure you've heard everybody's like, I feel like a firefighter. Right? All I do is put out fires. And I'm like, well, really what you're doing is you're reacting every day to situations.

Yeah. You're not proactively doing anything that you wanna do. Mhmm. So we really work with them to help build a plan to try to help them get their time back so that they can work on their business and not just in their business. And something that knows me is that I've told people all the time, like, we are not doctors.

As you know, I'm like, I it took me years to realize that, like, we do not save lives. Right? There is no such thing as a real estate emergency. If a house is on fire, call 911. Didn't tell me about it.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: I can't do anything about it. So really helping, leaders and team members, like, one, you know, really leadership and growth, and, two, it's like, how do we help you get your time back?

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: How do we help you get out of the weeds of what you're doing? And it's really just it's a mindset and it's a growth, that needs to happen. They want it. They just don't know about how to implement that. What does that look like?

How can I be here for my team, but also work on the business where I'm not constantly I always joke to tell people I hear this all the time, like, I guarantee you get ready to get started on something, and people almost won't start something? They'll almost get they'll be like, I I got a project to work on. They're waiting for the next got a minute Mhmm. Right, which I feel like are is the devil. Right?

Those things are will will kill you.

Steve: Well, it never ends.

Amanda: It they don't. And all you're doing is setting up your team to come ask you questions anytime they need something. So it's really you can do both. You can have both. It's not that I tell people, like, I'm not gonna try to get you out of your business where you're just disconnected on a beach somewhere, unless that's your plan, realistically, is how do we get you working in your genius zone where you're working on your stuff and you're still available for your team?

How do we build that bridge where you can know what's going on in your business, be involved, but not constantly reacting to everything every day?

Steve: Yeah. And you guys have been really instrumental. You specifically, you know, because, like, when I went through my turnover, right, 2223 was not great for Phoenix. Right? And so there was some turnover

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: As we were figuring things out. And so, like, we were at our bottom. I was actually so excited about starting over with just two people left. Right? I was beyond excited because now we get to build everything the right way.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: There are no more legacy procedures, no more legacy processes, no more legacy obligations. We got to file and turn everyone to w two.

Amanda: It's like you don't like to fix. You don't like to fix and flip, and it's kinda like, you know what? I'd rather just knock the house down and start over.

Steve: Just start over.

Amanda: Just start over.

Steve: Well, because, like, one of the last things we had to change was changing everyone at w two. Oh. Right? And I was like, okay. Well, we

Amanda: got fun.

Steve: We got this high performer Yep. Because of October, he's not gonna be happy about going w two. And, like, when he left, it's like, okay. We there's literally nothing stopping us from rebuilding everything the right way

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Now. Right? So I'm excited. And I'm really grateful that, you know, with you and Sharper, and and working with, and Jaden and Mhmm. Building us all right away.

I mean, even just the little things. Right? Like, you pushed us to print our process mouse. Like, we always had it in, Lucidchart.

Amanda: Everybody does.

Steve: Right? Yeah. Like, just print it. And, like, just night and day after having it printed on the walls, like, looking at it, it's like, okay. Well, that's that's not true today.

Amanda: Well, everybody has a gut feel of what they think it is. I'm like, print it. I work you know, it's not like print it, put it as big as you can on the walls. And then when things aren't working, ask yourself because we gotta lean them out. Right?

We gotta get better at them. Get them out of our head, and then we gotta make them better. And I'm like, every time something snags or doesn't work, go look at it and be like, where in this process did we skip it? Did we skip a step? Did we not do it?

Do we have the wrong process? It's that visual. I find a lot of entrepreneurs, and a lot of, ventures and stuff. I'm like, it's the visual they can easily pinpoint. You're not gonna go in a Lucidchart and be like, where did it break here?

Steve: No. Definitely not going to Lucidchart. Most people I have to, like, go get my login. Right?

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: Yeah. And as a matter of fact, we updated the process again this week. Yep. Because we had a situation where, you know, I wouldn't recommend this to everybody, but it's how we run our business, is I borrow, our private money

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: At purchase price plus closing costs plus a little bit of upfront revenue.

Amanda: K.

Steve: And our revenue after everything was said and done was less than projected. Like so, you know, RTC is like, hey, Steve. I want you to look at the settlement statement. We're bringing money to close. This doesn't make sense.

You said we're profiting off of it. It's like, well, we are. Mhmm. It's just less than we thought it was gonna be. Right.

Right? We bought this thing projecting to make 50. We're only making 19. Right? But we projected 50, so we got 25 up front.

And so now we're bringing cash

Amanda: to funds. You you it was profitable. You just already got the money.

Steve: You just already got the money.

Amanda: You already got the money.

Steve: Right? But, you know, this hasn't happened recently. And so now what do we do? Okay. Hey.

Now we're gonna update the processes. Hey. If we're gonna accept the contract, let's just get an estimated settlement statement Mhmm. Or estimated, profit. So then Mhmm.

If we know we're gonna be short, we know it.

Amanda: Right. So your CC now has a process to get that beforehand, get it reviewed and approved so everybody's on the same page.

Steve: So now the finance department knows Yeah. Hey. We're gonna have some money aside to pay it back to pay back the loan.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Whereas, you know, yesterday was an uncomfortable conversation.

Amanda: Yes. We can do that. Right. But you you have a great team now. I know Jayden is really just invested into the business.

I mean, you're lucked out. I know a lot of people ask me, like, how do I get that? Right? How do I find that person? And I think his unwavering determination, I just feel like he's so, like, I'm going to win.

Right?

Steve: Right.

Amanda: But, yeah, just working with him, you see a lot of that stuff. It's like, when I first started working with your team, he was just like, all I do is answer questions all day, and all I do is put out fires all day. And I'm like, how do we get you from from that to being connected with the team, holding people accountable, but also working on the business? How do we get you where you're proactively seeing trends and and not just reacting to something that you notice? Well, dang.

That happened three weeks ago.

Steve: Mhmm. Yeah. It it's it's absolutely phenomenal. And I think the key, which I don't know other tools besides perception predict measures of this, because we use PI.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: We use Myers Briggs.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: But it was perception predict that says he's got a 100% grit.

Amanda: Mhmm. I believe it.

Steve: Yeah. Yes. So having a 100% grit, so I don't know if we need to sign up for another program, but knowing that you got a guy that just won't quit.

Amanda: There's no quit in him. Yeah. Right? So you can do a lot with that. That's huge.

Steve: Well and I guess, you know, for someone who's listening, you know, to find someone like that, I could say for sure what's helped is been a com, a competitive, martial arts MMA guy.

Amanda: Okay. Good to know.

Steve: So having a competitive MMA guy

Amanda: I know a lot of people that hire from just athletic sports, whatever. You know?

Steve: Well, so we hired a recruiter, and the number one thing we're looking for is they play college sports.

Amanda: K.

Steve: That's the number one thing. Right? If they play college sports, it's an indicator that they're competitive Mhmm. And they know what it takes to win.

Amanda: And discipline.

Steve: And discipline.

Amanda: Mhmm. Right?

Steve: Like, these are people, like, was it Max, Volmer. Right? I don't know if you know Max. He was he's in CG. Like, the guy, was the cathlete.

Right? Is it wasn't the cathlete for Germany. So, like, he's only had alcohol, like, five times in his life.

Amanda: Wow.

Steve: That's commitment.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: Right? So how do you find guys that know what it takes to win and will do what it takes?

Amanda: That's really smart. There's a lot of teams that I work with that kind of subscribe to those. A lot of people that only hire people that are, you know, previously professional athletes or even semi pro or they have to have a track history is what we're looking for. Right? It's a track record of success.

I I talk a lot of people of lead managers. They're always looking for lead managers and TCs, and I'm like, one of the things people don't talk about in their hiring is, yes, we wanna do the PI, and we have a hiring process, but, also, I'm looking for somebody that has life experience. Mhmm. And I feel like that just goes unnoticed so much. Right?

Steve: Oh, I'm with you on that. When I go to an appointment Yeah. I can share life experience.

Amanda: Exactly.

Steve: A 20 year old

Amanda: Right.

Steve: Doesn't connect the same with a 60 year old.

Amanda: I used to try to do that with lead managers, and I have to tell them, like, I need you to to listen to the news every day. Like, you're required to be able to tell me what the weather's gonna be like and where are the most the highest current events because guess what sellers wanna talk about, right, or these things. So, but I actually look for that. I I don't try to hang up on the age so much, but I only want people in sales and lead management acquisitions that have life experience to your point. They can bridge a gap that if you don't, you can't.

Steve: Right. Yeah. You can't talk about the challenges with your kids. Right. Like, you can't talk to an empty nester about the kids moving out if you don't even have a wife.

Amanda: Very true. Right? Yeah. Especially, when it comes to if you bought a house, if you sold a house, like, you can talk about what some of the struggles were, you know what some of the struggles were, If you inherited a house or if you have a loved one, caregivers Mhmm. Hoarders.

That's a whole level of experience that you need.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: Definitely. So, right now, you know, describe what your life looks like now versus, you know, when you're first getting into real estate.

Amanda: Vastly different. Vastly different for sure. You know, getting into real estate was exciting. It was fun, and I loved it, and I still do, but it was a lot of burning the candle at both ends. Right?

I feel like all of us have learned it. Like, you know, you see these people and you're like, oh my god. I wanna be that. And you're like, what you don't see is that twenty year grind in the background.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: A lot of weekends, a lot of nights, a lot of just, you know, pouring in there. And now I just really get to work with other teams, that I really enjoy. But for me right now, I'm at a point where, you you know, everybody always ask people, what does freedom look like for you?

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: You know, when I'm working with teams, they're trying to tell me what they're trying to get to. I'm like, what are you trying to accomplish? Like, and they always say the same thing. Like, wanna do what they wanna do when they wanna do it. Mhmm.

Like, so financial freedom. Right? Like, you wanna be in the business, not be in the business, you it doesn't matter. Right? You wanna run around.

So I'm kinda at that place, and I always joke to tell people, like, I've been in this long enough. Like, I'm I'm there now.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? I'm doing this because I love working with teams, not because I have to.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: I I was able to relocate a lot of life changes in 2023, but me and my husband get to travel a ton, you know, working with Sharper. I get to work with clients because I want to, not because I'm obligated to.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: So kinda I feel like, you know, debt free. I have my investment portfolio, you know, things like that, and I get to travel and meet with teams. So, I I love it. I love working with other teams. But to your point, I always tell people, like, what do you wanna do?

I feel like I am at that point now where I am doing what I want to do when I want to do it.

Steve: Yeah. So, you got the passive income

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Where if you say, Gary, I don't wanna talk to a person anymore.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: No sweat off your back.

Amanda: None. Yeah. Nope.

Steve: When do you think you achieved that? Whereas, like, hey. We can fire this client. I mean, even before Sharper. Right?

Like, back when you were with Tennessee, like, when do you remember the first time you're like, I don't wanna talk to this person ever again. Can we just remove this person?

Amanda: Yes. That's that's a little tougher.

Steve: And then you have to be a client. It could be a vendor. It could be a supplier or a relationship.

Amanda: Well, you know, we actually had a a salesperson one time that was really, really, really good, and he drove everybody crazy. Right? We talked about that in Sharper with the nine box. Right? You have a high performer, low trust.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Kind of person. And, phenomenal human being, but, oh my gosh, he was I I could tell they changed the culture because the minute he walks in the door, everybody's doors would shut in their office. Right?

Steve: Wow.

Amanda: Like, people would go out of their way to kind of avoid the situation. They knew it was gonna be something crazy, never follow the process. It was just it wore on everybody. So that's how I I walked out one night, and I realized everybody shut their doors when every shit his truck got in the parking lot. I was like, wow.

What does that do to your culture?

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? And, you know, it's kind of a tough situation. Me and Jeremy was just like, no. A certain level, we really thought we would be cutting off our nose despite our face. Mhmm.

Right? Like, you brought in 50%, if not more, of the business Mhmm. That we had. And, I tell you what, I tell people when, like, we get rid of the wrong people on the team, like, the team rallies. Like, everybody was so geared up.

We never missed a beat. Like, we really were fearful we would. We never missed a beat. We actually probably did more business that year than we had done in previous years, and the whole team just kinda rallied.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: So I still be like, if you have anybody in your life that you don't wanna work with? Like, life's too short. You know? And that's why I tell people, like, you know, I'm not I always joke. Austin always introduces me and says I'm retired.

I'm like, I don't know if retired is the right word, but, you know, I do I get to do what I wanna do when I wanna do it. But, you know, time is the greatest asset we have. Right? And I grind it out, as Jayden and everybody else says, for a lot of years, and there's a lot of times I can't get back. But, I'm in a place now where time is my greatest asset.

I'm unwilling to work with people that don't bring value to my life.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Right? Like, I I'm a big giver, but I wanna receive too. And if I don't feel like I can bring you value or, you know, I feel like you're gonna steal my energies, like, I'm at a place I absolutely won't work with you. I will feel like the last ten years as we get older, and you said you said it better. You say as we mature, I'm less likely to you know, I'm more I'm more quickly be like, yep.

Nope. No. Thank you.

Steve: Right. I

Amanda: don't care what you gotta bring to the table. I it's just not it's not worth it to me at that level.

Steve: Have you let go of any clients as you went to Sherpa? We don't have to name names.

Amanda: I would say that there are a few that have moved to other coaches maybe that I I would say got rid of them, but there's been some teams that, you know, I've I've worked with and maybe I felt I didn't bring them the most value or they didn't, you know, vice versa. So we will try to make sure that you're working with the right coach. You know, we all have kinda different skill sets. I'm very heavy in operations and specifically in real estate and work a lot of real estate teams, Austin with, you know, talent management. He is a PI guru.

Right? And Braden McCurdy with marketing and, you know, Carrie and Susan. So it's what I really love about it is everybody is can do any of it, but we're all specialized in some areas, and so we really try to help clients. If your issue right now is marketing, we're gonna try to really encourage you to work with Brandon.

Steve: Right?

Amanda: If you're struggling with process and procedures and, you know, operational leadership, then I'm probably gonna be the team member. If hiring you just can't hire you can't do anything until you hire the right people, we're probably gonna get you with Austin. Yeah. So we really do try to mix it up. I I haven't fired anybody, but I have moved team members around and clients around and vice versa to make sure they're working with the right people at the right time.

Steve: Gotcha. And, again, we're just going kinda going down that route, route, just that that road because there is a lot of pleasure when you're able to say, you know what? We should see other people.

Amanda: Alright. Can you are you at that place now?

Steve: I've I would say even when I wasn't that place financially

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: It was well worth it always to be like, yeah. You're taking so much of my energy. Mhmm. I can't do this. I remember this specifically.

And I actually didn't get a chance to fire this client because they fired me. Right? But if they hadn't fired me,

Amanda: for

Steve: sure, they had that conversation. I was firing them.

Amanda: Right?

Steve: Because, like, she was rambling on or ranting. You didn't do this and do that. Like, you know, the photos are wrong. This is realtor days. Like, I'm embarrassed by these photos.

Like, I'm embarrassed by these photos. Like, it's a professional photographer. I think she

Amanda: Right.

Steve: And it was just because the photos weren't in the right orders. That's all it was. Right? But it was clear that she was high maintenance, and her tone was not respectful. Mhmm.

And so I was so looking forward to, like, as soon as soon as she was done, I was like, we should see other people. Right? Like but she is like, hey. I don't think we should work together. I was like, I agree.

Hung on the phone, sign the cancellation, we're done.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: And move on.

Steve: And move on. Because there's nothing worse than taking energy from people that deserve it

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Because the wrong people are stealing it.

Amanda: Right. And there was a time when you know, we we've definitely done some deals and, you know, Jeremy and I got and got to a place where eventually, it's like there were some deals where we had sellers that were so difficult.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? And, you know, we'd kinda be like, we don't wanna take away from the team, but also too, we knew you start to identify those situations like this is gonna drag everybody's energies down. Nobody wants to work with this person. They're super difficult, and we would. We would let people in a contract be like, you know what?

We bless you. Good luck. Like you say, you joked we talked about in the South, like, bless your heart. Here you go. We don't wanna buy your house.

Right? That doesn't happen often, but to your point is it's nice when you get to that point where you're like, you know what? Not worth it. Mhmm. Right?

Steve: And something that, you know, I was talking earlier before the the the podcast. We're doing the installment method.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And one of the things I enjoy with installment method is that this relationship could be over, where we can close your transaction in a matter of days.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And then I don't have to give you updates. Our our transaction coordinator doesn't have to update you for the next few weeks. It's just transaction's done. And we move on, and we get to do whatever we need to do with the house.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: Right? So there's a lot of freedom in not having to I don't know. Like, we got into this business. We wanna serve. We wanna help people.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: But we also don't wanna have a boss. Correct. And there's elements where sometimes it feels like we have a boss.

Amanda: Well, we're we're we're providing a service. Right? As we sell people, it's like, it's not that we're buying houses. We're providing a service. We're marketing and sales company.

And so we have to really always put ourselves in the place of the customer. Right? I I've heard about installments. I think it's gonna be huge. Right?

I mean, we're always looking for ways to and this industry changes so fast.

Steve: It does.

Amanda: It's it's almost scary sometimes. So I I think it's awesome. I'm excited for you.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think that's that's what's most exciting is that always finding that new competitive advantage. Always looking for that other advantage. What is your purpose? You know, you're saying, like, we were talking about a moment ago, like, what is your why?

What drives you in? What drove you then doesn't drive you the same today. So what is your what is your why today?

Amanda: Yeah. Usually, it was to win. Right? I joke we were talking earlier about spouses. You and me and my husband are still we're super competitive.

Right? We're both high a's. I mean, there are times that we would leave a restaurant at the same time and take different routes to see who could pull in the driveway.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Like, everything's competition. That's what we really enjoy that about each other. So, but back then, you know, my twenties and thirties, it was grind. It was to win. It was you know, I just wanted to lifelong learn.

I just wanted to do more and be more. And now it's really about stepping back, and it's really about helping people. Because I've looked back in my journey over the last twenty years, and I realized that I never would have gotten half of where I was if it wasn't for other people. Mhmm. Right?

If it wasn't for the CG community, if it wasn't for other operators and market people and and willing to share information and, you know, I just would've never got there. So I realized when I had so many people asking me, like, you know, calling me, asking me, can hey. Can you jump on a call? Or, hey. Can I do an office visit?

And it's kinda like, why? Yeah. I didn't really understand it. And and I realized that I'm now at a place with my experience that I can really give back to other people. Mhmm.

And I look back and see the people I've hired over the years and see them, you know, just really killing it in their roles and I which I enjoyed that success and seeing that I can do the same with others. So I get a ton of joy out of it. Do I enjoy the travel? Absolutely not. Yeah.

I joke all the time. I'm in five states sometimes a week. It can be difficult, but I love I get so much out of working with teams. I love seeing them win. I love coming back and seeing what they've got accomplished.

It really it feeds it it it really does feed my why.

Steve: Do you get to travel with your husband at all the stops?

Amanda: Yeah. Not all the stops. So he's still, you know, he's still working, and so I don't know what that's gonna look like, but we are planning certain trips. We just went to New York City, because I was with a client. We're coming back out here Mhmm.

In a couple weeks. So he's gonna come with me so we can do some stuff. So we do an agreement. I think last year, we traveled a ton. I think we made six, seven or eight trips

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Last year. So we both love to travel. Yeah. And to your point, you know, you're gonna be there in twelve years. I'm like, we were kind of prep we were we've been preparing for it.

We told our kids when we're like, when we graduate, you know, our youngest is in college, and that was kind of our it was kind of the moving forward point. You know, we have our older two daughters. Our our they have families in their own. Our youngest is in college, and we're like, what what are we gonna do with our time? We realized we really like each other.

Mhmm. We still enjoy hanging out together, believe it or not. We don't have nearly the fights you do when your your kids are younger. So we really enjoy getting to do stuff, challenging each other. I have such an amazing husband.

He's so supportive. He will challenge me at every step and turn, but he is so supportive of me at the same time. And and that's a game changer.

Steve: Yeah. That's awesome. And we're trying to the intent because the kids have we have year round school.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: So we have shorter summer breaks, but we have longer spring breaks and fall breaks. So, yeah, the the objective of my wife is we wanna be able to travel every break with the kids.

Amanda: That's good. Yeah. Yeah. And really what a lot of times we're looking for, Annette, is looking for experiences. Mhmm.

Right? What she's probably shooting for is, like, experiences. Like, she really wants the quality time of that. She wants to give the kids experiences. Like, those are things that you can't get back.

Steve: You can't. No. Yeah. Yeah. And she's my wife has been such a hard worker for, a lot of her career.

Like, she looks back now. I was like, oh, man. I wish Mhmm. Because she she could do it now with the little one, but she can't take back get back that time with the older ones. What is your biggest struggle today?

Amanda: I'm a be honest with you. Working with all these teams and, you know, you know my profile and my my personality too. The biggest struggle I have today is not wanting to jump in and do things for teams. I have to really be mindful. I will over commit, and I'll be working with a team, and they're struggling to get their numbers together.

And that's really one of the biggest things I see. A lot of them don't have the right numbers. They have too many numbers. They can't see. They can't tell what they don't know, or they don't have their numbers, and I'll see stuff.

And in my experience, I just we talk about this low c. Right? High a. I just wanna you know, I'm just send me that, and I'll put it together. Right?

Like, I'll just I'll come I'll do it. You know? When are you I will just come out there and do it. And so my biggest struggle today is really being mindful that I'm here to help coach and lead people and and be there and be a resource for them, but I can't do it for them.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: And I want to because I wanna see people win. I will I mean, I wanna see them win, and I'm like, it's quicker. I could do it faster, but I remind myself in telling other people I coach them, like, that's the kryptonite. Like, if you wanna feel like your my if your team feels like you're micromanaging, the worst thing you could tell somebody is or you do is you're like, well, this person can do it, but I can just do it quicker, and I'll knock it out. What you're saying is I don't trust you, and I do it better.

Mhmm. It's not your intent. That's what

Steve: That's the message.

Amanda: That's the message.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I got I got a stern talking to you at some point last year. Alright? Hey, Steve.

I know you can do this. I know you can do it fast. Mhmm. We're just screening my processes.

Amanda: Yeah. And we're Kryptonite. Right? We we we hinder other people's growth. And if you do that enough, people quit trying.

Mhmm. You can have the greatest, sharpest people in the role, but if you don't give them the tools to run and trust to run, they're either gonna quit trying or they're gonna go try somewhere else.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Those are your options.

Steve: Yeah. Neither are really good. So how how do you stay motivated?

Amanda: Or do

Steve: you require motivation in this season?

Amanda: I'm pretty self motivated. I get motivation off getting to help you out. I love challenges. That's I know it's silly. I know it's crazy, but

Steve: No. It's not. Yeah.

Amanda: I I want those people, like, I love puzzles, anything like that. Right? So when I work with these teams, I get a ton of motivation from being able to see the obstacles and the hurdles because I have all that. You know, I have a lot of experience in really helping them. Like, that motivates me.

Trying to help them, like, what do you think about this? Have you tried this? Right? Trying to help push in that direction. And that motivates me when I come back and they're like, oh my gosh.

This worked. This was amazing. You know? That is so motivating to me. I love the feedback.

I guess my love language is also words of affirmation. So

Steve: Well, I can say for sure, you know, we've been at this business about the same amount of time. And for me, it's always been I've had the opportunity to mentor lots of people. And my favorite people to to to mentor are those that do exactly what you tell them to do, and they report the success. Those are by far my favorite people. Right?

The people that don't do

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Or they had to add their flavor to it, and then they told you it didn't work drive me bonkers.

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: So, yeah, my, even though words of affirmation is not my love language Yeah. When someone says, I did what you told me to do and it works great. Yes. Man, my favorite people.

Amanda: I love that. I try to be really mindful that I'm not telling people what to do because we're kinda different. Like, you're you're really instructing them. I'm really trying to help them get there.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: I'm trying to help them build a framework of decision making for their team, to step more into a leadership role. I always joke and tell people. I'm like, they're like, I I get this from every from from all the owners. They're like, I just really don't like managing people. And I'm like, that's great because you should not manage people.

Mhmm. You should lead people, but manage processes.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? Like, we wanna lead people, not manage. And nobody wants to be managed. Right. So I was joking.

They're like, well, this is a manager. Like, what are they managing? They're managing people or managing a process. So usually, it's the process.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: So yes. And I do have some teams that, you know, with you, it's like you can you can lead a horse to water. Right? But, you can't make them drink.

Steve: Yeah. And that's one of the things that, you know, you look at obviously, you're working with people that are high high functioning Mhmm. Performers. But there are a lot of people we attract that are not necessarily in that season.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And they're trying to figure it out. Right? They're still dealing with some of the mental baggage

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Of, you know because we all deal with this when we first start. It's like, is this possible? Is this real? How do I manage my time? This and that.

And, unfortunately, when you're dealing with that, group of people, they haven't figured out some of the other stuff yet. And when you tell them to go do this, they've got self talk about why that won't work.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Either from their upbringing or their, their friends and family or whatever. It's like, just do I promise you. Well, I

Amanda: was joking. I I say it's acquisitions and lead managers too. We talk about leading indicators, and I always tell them, like, this is what I look for because they build this mental objection that never happens.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: You know, it happens in sales a lot too, and I'm I'm I know you see it with your sales training is and I tell people, like, they start inventing objections that hadn't occurred. Right. They have a bad experience, and so I'm constantly looking at leading indicators, or trying to help people look at that to see, like, we wanna try to get ahead of that as quickly

Steve: as we can.

Amanda: It's gonna happen. It happens to us all. We take a really bad, you know, beating on a on a situation, and then they go into the next one, and it's kinda skittish. Right? We're just like, man, I just, you know, just wanna hand it to me.

Do I really wanna do this again? So, yes. And they have a bad experience, and it's the same thing with teams I work with. And I work with entrepreneurs that are sole operators. I have several of those that just really small.

I have some that have a team of, you know, three or four and all the way up to, you know, worked with one team, and and they do 400 plus deals. And, you know, they're they're monstrous, like, 60 employees. So, everybody has their struggles. I don't care what phase of business you're in. Mhmm.

Like, there is a struggle that you're gonna encounter. Like you said, what was the difference from 20 to fifty, fifty to a 100?

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Right? It becomes people and then processes and then people again, and how do we make this, you know, repeatable? So there's a lot of challenges along the way, and I I really enjoy working with people. But, yeah, not everybody, does it you know, takes that advice.

Steve: Alright. What is your superpower?

Amanda: I knew you were gonna ask me this too. I should be more prepared. I feel like I'm really good at strategy and execution. Right? I'm not the person that's gonna say, hey.

We should go do this charge. Right? I'm a person that tells you, you tell me where you wanna go and what that looks like for you. What does success look like for you? And I can I love to plan, and I can build a road map, and this is what we gotta do, and I'll put the play?

Like, that is my superpower. Like, you're gonna be like, this is where I'm going. I'm like, this is how we're gonna get here.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? And am I always right? Absolutely not. Are you always right in the direction? Absolutely not.

Steve: No.

Amanda: But I am not afraid to be like, let's go. Right? And I think some people get I get a lot of, like, what about this and what about this? I'm like, there's a lot of butts in

Steve: the world.

Amanda: Like, pick a direction.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Right? Make a move. Making no move is the worst thing that you can do.

Steve: Right. Yeah. So what would Fish say if I was asking him, what's Amanda's superpower?

Amanda: I don't know. Working with him, probably. Insane. You know? Anybody knows Jeremy knows that I mean, the the man is so smart, genius level.

Right? Absolutely, we challenge each other on every level. And, honestly, made us better. You know? And I was just gonna joke, you know, I'm his strength and his weakness, and he's my strength and my weakness.

Right? And so is a lot, but I don't know what he would say my superpower is. I'm just you know, those guys are really good about knowing where they wanted to go, and I was really good at executing on it, making it happen.

Steve: Yeah. What's your biggest regret?

Amanda: You know, that one's actually an easy one for me. As much exposure as I had to real estate, I didn't buy my first rental property for, like, seven years.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: I don't know if it was I I saw all the negatives. I was doing project management. I saw that stuff could go wrong. I was just

Steve: You knew how the sausage was made?

Amanda: Yeah. I I did. And I was like, you know, and I had all the opportunity. And so I didn't buy my first rental property until, you know, seven years in the business, and then I I it was so easy after that. Once you buy one, you can you can easily buy some more.

And I really my biggest regret is not buying more assets sooner and holding them longer.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: That if I could go back and unwind it and do anything, I would and I work with clients now that have none. And I'm like, well, what is your what's your exit? What's your plan? They're like, passive income. I'm like, okay.

But do you have any passive income? They're like, no. And I'm like, do you see where we should start working on that? Right. Right?

But, yeah, my biggest regret is, not buying more rental properties sooner, not holding longer.

Steve: Yeah. And in Tennessee, like, you were cash flowing

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Pretty quick.

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially over the years. I've had some really good deals.

I think my first rental property I bought for $2,427,000 dollars.

Steve: Oh my goodness.

Amanda: And it was total it was a total gut. It was a rehab. It was a condo. Crazy. I remember my payments once I I I bought it, and I fixed it up and did all that.

I think my payments were 250 a month.

Steve: Man.

Amanda: And I think my rents at the time were, like, $65,700. And I I think today, they're they're up at, like, I think we're in, like, 1,200.

Steve: Yeah. You're doing alright with that one.

Amanda: Yeah. I've got a few of those, that I was, you know, bought long time ago or certain times. But I I wish I would've I wish I would've bought them sooner. Once I did one and two, I was almost addicted to it a little bit. And I was like, why?

I had every opportunity.

Steve: So you became one of your top buyers in your market.

Amanda: Oh, absolutely. Everybody knew I had an area and I had a type and, you know, I'd see stuff come through and I'd be like, hey. I'll offer seven. And I had to compete just like everybody else. You know?

They're they're a wholesale deal if the company was gonna buy. The company bought it, had other wholesalers send me stuff, and you know what?

Steve: To pay market. Uh-huh. You had to pay market.

Amanda: I had to pay market.

Steve: That's part

Amanda: of the deal. Everybody's always asked, like, that's something that comes up as, you know, if they have, people in their team that wanna buy properties, I'm like, they should have the same shot everybody else has to buy it. Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Doesn't mean you give it to them, but they should have shot. Why wouldn't you?

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. And that's something that we incorporated last year as we have a a a Google chat channel

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: For everyone. Doesn't matter if you're in media or in education department, wholesale department, or, you know, your I guess, education department. But now that we're doing a virtual for those guys, doesn't matter where you are. Mhmm. You see all our deals in the Google chat.

Amanda: Awesome. Yeah. Is that if has anybody participated in taking you up on some of the deals?

Steve: Not yet. But it's there. That was an initiative we had from last year, and so that opportunity is there. Just waiting for someone to Yeah. Wanna do it.

Amanda: Well, you gotta kinda push people through along. One of the things, that I was able to do, we had a really good culture. And if anybody if there's anything I was really proud about working with that team was the culture. Mhmm. I actually got to a point I feel like this when I left is we had people that came to us that wanted to work for us just because they wanted to work on our team.

They're like, I don't care what opening you have. Like, I will I don't it's not about the money. Like, I know somebody works on this team, and I wanna work here. And that's when I started to realize that we had something so amazingly special

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: In the culture. And so, you know, working with people in one on ones, you know, and I always find out what what are you trying to accomplish? What does that look like for you? You know, there's personal and there's professional, and buying a house was a common thing. Younger people, especially, you know, like, wanna buy a house.

So we would actually try to mentor them and, like, hey. This is what do you know about financing? What do you know about this? I'm gonna say, overall, probably helped about five or six employees buy their first house. Several of them, we bought.

The company bought. We were gonna buy them anyway.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: We would renovate them, and then we would sell them to them. Yeah. Right? More of a primary. We did have a few due investments too, but I thought more people would get involved.

But it's it's nice to see. It's rewarding to see.

Steve: Well, and it goes full cycle.

Amanda: Right?

Steve: You get to see the whole Yes. From beginning, from when we source the deal to putting an end buyer into it Mhmm. All within the organization.

Amanda: Yes. And they're just so excited. And to know that we invest in them and, you know, that they get the opportunity to buy that house first more and, you know, they got the first shot. You know, they if it was a retail buyer or if it was a wholesale deal, I mean, we didn't give up anything for them, but we helped them. We gave them preference that we wanted them to win.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's key. Because what that's how you build a culture. It's like, yeah. We actually want you to win.

I actually had someone who recruited some time ago, and it was like it's interesting to go working from someone who wants to make he wants a 100 people to make him a millionaire

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: To work in a company that wants to create a 100 millionaires.

Amanda: Right. Yeah. Because you don't realize, that it's, you know, you to give, you gotta or to get, you gotta give. Right? And the same thing.

But we wanna win together. I am telling you, I have not seen a single team that at all is all about one person, and their team works for them. Most all entrepreneurs, they think that I'm in this business because I don't want a boss. They realize it's like, you're not you're you're you're pairing these people. Like, this is their livelihood.

Right? This is your team. You're not gonna grow without them, and they're not gonna grow without you.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: So it becomes this, the synergy about how can we win together. Right?

Steve: Has to be.

Amanda: Yeah. We always joke. I told you earlier, our, our we used to look for people culturally. It's like, would you hide a body for this person? I know it's not you know, but it was we would joke around, but it was true.

It's like, you know, we ask each other if we wanna work with somebody. It's like, would we hide a body for

Steve: this person? Yeah.

Amanda: Not that we have. I'm not saying we have. I'm just saying Not

Steve: saying we haven't.

Amanda: That that was the loyalty level that we looked for.

Steve: Yeah. How committed will you believe for us?

Amanda: Yes.

Steve: Yeah. Is there any one failure that you learned the most from in your in along your journey?

Amanda: Lots. So many. But there's a lot of leadership failures along the way because I didn't realize that I was a leader. I think that was a big struggle for me. I I was so good at pushing, and I wanted to win at stuff that I don't I don't think I realized how many people were paying attention to what I was saying and what I was doing.

Mhmm. And if I could go back and and, you know, make some adjustments, I've probably would've handled situation center. I would've done different things. I don't feel like I actually became a leader till, like, the last, you know, five, maybe ten years. Up until that point, I was just a grinder and I was a manager.

Mhmm. I managed people. I've I've probably lost great people over the years because I'll either micromanage them or, you know, everybody's like, oh, you're so good. I'm like, a lot of hard lessons. Lot ton of hard lessons.

I didn't wanna be a leader. I I didn't know what that meant. You know? It wasn't until I really started digging into that. You know?

We talked about second in command, and I love The Road The Road Less Stupid.

Steve: Fantastic book.

Amanda: I have a wonderful book. But I feel like I did a I did the company a disservice, not stepping into a leadership role and fighting it more along the way. I really just wanted to get it done, and I wanted to win. And I really didn't know what this thing I thought leadership was a word people used.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: It wasn't so I started seeing other people win and and successes that I was able to make that change. So

Steve: Yeah. I I kinda share, like, I have this, when I open the brokerage, it's purely out of greed. Mhmm. Right? Like, why'd you get a rest?

It's purely out of greed. Like, this it was just greed. And then you kinda have this, like, as a Christmas story, right, where it's like, you know, the Mhmm. Your your heart turns, like, oh, like, there's something fulfilling here Mhmm. And helping people win.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: Yeah. So, was there any one relationship or one situation that occurred? You're like, man, like, if I had to do it all over again, like, this was the one that, like, I learned the most from.

Amanda: Again, so many. That's what happens when you're old and you've been in this industry a really long time. Yeah. I had one. I I had a TC one time, and she was an outright grinder.

Right? Phenomenal person. She was just young. She didn't have a lot a lot of life experience, and she just she would grind and grind, and she did good. And she would make things happen nobody else would make happen.

But she would also just really pour at, like, how she handled situations. She would blow things up sometimes. Mhmm. I really could have done more to mentor her, and I feel like I probably snuffed her out more. I brought her down more than I brought her up.

Right? I still talk to her today. I just sent her some some referrals, last week on some other people, and, you know, it was one of those things. And I was gonna try to move her into a different role, and she ended up walking the door. Now she's been in the team, like, three or four years, and she just quit.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: So, like, she can't work for you anymore. Can't work for her. And it was me. I'm a very intense person.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: You joked when I told you that, and you're like, you're so nice. I'm like, I am nice. I'm I'm also very intense. I'm really working on dialing that back. But

Steve: I don't think it's come through during this podcast.

Amanda: Well, thank you. But she she was a phenomenal person, and she still is. It's not to say she's not. I was a really poor leader to her. I I really looked at how she could serve the company and what she could do more, and I I knew she had a ton of potential, and I I just did not invest the time into it.

If I could go back and undo and and learn something, that was probably the one that taught me the most, right, about what leadership really looks like. Another time, we had let somebody go, and I have fired people over the years. I mean, I tried not to as much as possible. Right? We've not done a ton of it, but sometimes you have to do what's best for the company.

And one in particular that he was so blindsided. You You know? It wasn't somebody that I directly manage or ever saw, but I I was always always in the room when that happened and, you know, did things and and drove it. And he was so blindsided by it, and just, you know, not begging, but just really didn't understand what's happening, begged for the opportunity, get a family, you know. And it really it hurt my soul.

It hurt my soul. And and to that point, I always said, you know, and and, damn, we can be pushed back. He's like, just let that person go. I'm like, I'm I'm never doing that again. Going forward, I'm gonna make sure that everybody knows where they stand.

Right? I'm gonna work with you. I'm gonna have conversations with you. I'm gonna try to coach you. But you to my point, like, we talk about survivor, that blindside.

I never I told him, I said, I never I will never let somebody ever go again that I feel like they were blindsided. Mhmm. Like, I feel like now when I sit down, I let people go and they're like, I saw this coming. I'm like, well, we gave you every opportunity. Right?

Steve: Right.

Amanda: But I'm not going to blindside anybody. If I'm if you're blindsided that you're not producing, that's my failure, not yours.

Steve: That's poor leadership.

Amanda: Yeah. It's poor leadership. So I I will not blindside anybody. Again, like I said, I still think about that was one of the most painful terminations I've ever been through, and the leadership where I really lacked in. You know, she's thriving now, and she's great.

She would anyway, but I I really lost a core player that could have done so many great things because we butted heads and it had to be my way or the highway.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, I I can say for sure I've had countless examples

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Of they didn't see it coming. It's like, man. Like, what a failure on my part.

Amanda: Right. Yeah. If they don't know that they're not doing a job, that's my fault, not theirs.

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: Right? Like and that's where I I don't like the pips. I kinda moved away from those a little bit. I'm like, I just I want to help people be the best they can be. My husband always jokes and tells people, you know, he's always like, I wanna help you move up or move out.

Right? Let me promote you to customer. I'm like, oh gosh. But he has a corporate background. So And it really gets you

Steve: back to the to the environment

Amanda: Yeah.

Steve: To the wild. What book have you gifted more than any other?

Amanda: More what? Set up for

Steve: What book have you gifted more than any other?

Amanda: So many. We all share. Right?

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Tons of books. I feel like this year has been my big win is this past year is just getting to catch up on all the books. Probably, I know more recently. I love Crucial Conversations. I I referenced that one a ton with talking with people, work the system.

That was a book Jeremy actually brought to me years and years and years ago, and it was all these simple principles about time management things that we're like, well, we know that. We just don't use it. Mhmm. But work the system's a really big one. And then, I'm trying to think of what's that?

We all talk about it. It comes up all the time. What is the leadership one?

Steve: There's, leaders eat last.

Amanda: There's ownership.

Steve: That one. Yeah.

Amanda: Yes. I mean, I read that years and years and years ago. Still listen to it on Audible. We even had a thing where everybody worked on a team, had to read the book. I know that still circle circulates quite a bit around the area, but for me personally, I love crucial conversations.

I I feel like a lot of people don't know how to have those hard conversations to avoid, and that's the worst. Right? You're just people suffer in silence.

Steve: Yeah. It's

Amanda: compartmentalized. Awkward. It's it's just awful. I'm like, crucial conversations was one of those deals that helped me understand is, like, you can push anything forward. It's just how you handle the situation.

Steve: I mean, I will say I feared difficult conversations for the longest time. Mhmm.

Amanda: And that

Steve: was one of the books I picked up. I was like, how do I have this one on one with someone? I picked that book up, and it helped. I still struggled for some time. Took a lot of lessons on the way and failures to really for that to come through.

Like, okay. Well, if I don't wanna have these, you would be blindsided.

Amanda: Right. Yes.

Steve: They need warnings.

Amanda: Yes. And that's where the extreme ownership really comes into play from a leadership standpoint of realizing you you're not one. I can't remember who did the, I think it's Simon. I'm not sure, but he does the little chart where he talks about, you you know, the Navy SEALs, and he's like, you know, the trust. Right?

And that was the other thing. You have a culture. A lot of times, people don't have it or anything, but trust is a big part of that. Right? You wanna trust the people you work with.

You wanna trust they have your back, that they're gonna call you on your crap, if that's the case. And you just have that transparency. And he jokes about, like, how what determines to be a Navy SEAL, and I'm gonna butcher this story, but it's fine anyway. And he talks about, like, I trust you with my life, but I trust you with my money and my wife. Right?

Like, that's a different level of trust.

Steve: Mhmm.

Amanda: Right? Like, we need that level of trust

Steve: Yeah.

Amanda: To hold each other accountable. So I love anything that has to do with leadership, and, there's just so many great books out there. But Extreme Ownership, 110%, and I love Crucial Conversations.

Steve: Yeah. And that's the quote I was saying earlier. Like, you know, people is the last frontier.

Amanda: Mhmm. Right?

Steve: Like, because you can do everything right. And then you still need the right people to do it, and they're the most unpredictable

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Piece in the system.

Amanda: Yeah. I had somebody ask me a lot of time ago, or not long ago, but I was working with the team. I think I posted on Facebook. I was like, one of the best teams to work with, and I'm supposed to have favorites. And, somebody text me and they're like somebody was like, what's so great about this team?

Right? This is this fellow CG member we know. He's like, what's so great about this team? And I really reflected on it. I was like, it's the people.

Yeah. Right? Like, they have this amazing culture. They call each other out. They really support each other.

Like, they're not afraid to have healthy conflict. Mhmm. And I said back to you, and I was like, dude, it's like, it's really it's the people. It's it's their culture. They protect it like it is their lifeblood.

They really care about each other. They wanna win together. I was like, it really is the who, not the how. Mhmm. Right?

We've all read it. We've all we say it, but it it really is when you get the right people in the right seats and everybody rowing in the right direction, you can change the world.

Steve: Right. Yeah. No. That's that's huge. So what are some last thoughts that I'd like to leave all the listeners with?

Amanda: I don't know. We've we've covered such an array of topics today on a lot of stuff. I just feel like any last thoughts would be, you know, one of the biggest things I'm trying to work with a lot of clients on is, you know, creating urgency and emergency. You know, the biggest thing is we don't again, we're not doctors. We do not save lives.

Right? You can be intentional about your time. I feel like the word of the year, that year coming in 2024, is gonna be intentional. Mhmm. Everybody, the last couple of years, they had the wins are back.

Like, every like, it's been easy. And it all of a sudden, it's not easy anymore.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Right? And everybody just kinda reacted to what the market was giving them. But now it's like, no. We gotta be intentional intentional about who we hire, intentional about our marketing, intentional about our customer service. Like, we can't just do things to do them.

Right? We can't just react to the situations. Like, you have to proactively be moving your company forward and not just reacting. Like, you can't can't play a victim. You can't seem to be like, but I don't know what happened.

Everybody told you. You knew what was gonna everybody knew what happened. Like, good operators are gonna survive this, and the poor ones that have just been, you know, winging it Mhmm. They're not gonna make

Steve: it. Yeah. Right? I saw something in a Facebook group this morning. Yeah.

I messaged I posted, like, yeah. You know, wholesaling company I just I work for just got dissolved. What should I do? Mhmm. So I sent a message.

Amanda: Are you looking for a job?

Steve: Yeah. So you say intention, you know, something that, we we just had our annual meeting a couple of weeks ago, and we replaced a core value.

Amanda: K.

Steve: The core value we replaced was urgency.

Amanda: K.

Steve: And I think for me, the reason why is that if that's the core value, then I'm probably the first person that should be fired, if that's the the the core value. So we replaced it. Right? What should we replace it with? We talked about high functioning.

Amanda: K. Right?

Steve: And we're like, that's really more of an attribute than a core value. And so the core value, we replaced it with this ownership.

Amanda: K. It's a good one.

Steve: Alright. So if you're this is your this is your seat or this is your department or whatever and you own it. And if you're not gonna own it, let me know.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Because I will put someone in there that will own it, not run it.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Own it.

Amanda: Ownership. Yeah. Full ownership.

Steve: Full ownership. So that's the new core value. And it doesn't matter what seat you are Mhmm. In the company. Right?

But once you're in that seat, you own it. And if require if you require not, like, if you need support, you need help, you need resources, like, let us know. Be vocal.

Amanda: You should. Right? No. None of us are independent, you know, performers.

Steve: Yeah. If you need that, let us know. But you own this, and if you're not getting things done and you're not vocal about need, that's on you. Right. Yeah.

So that's our new core value for that we we replaced Right. In 2024.

Amanda: I love everybody should operate, and I feel like we don't it really doesn't have to be said a lot, the sense of urgency. Right? Mhmm. Like, we how much everybody knows? It's speed to lead.

It's getting in there. It's how quickly can we get in front of them, how quickly can we make the offer. I feel like that's really driven home. Right? I'm sure some people still need to hear it, but the other aspect to that is, you know, not letting other people's urgencies become your emergencies, not reacting to every situation.

If you send me a text and I respond five hours later after I finish what I'm doing versus right now, what's changed?

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Right? What's what's the outcome different? If you were relying on me for your lifeblood to do something to send you probably should have called me anyway Mhmm. And not send a text. So we talk about how to handle communication and and some of the best cadences for communication, but just intentional.

Like, you have to want it. You have to go get it. We have to be willing to learn from our lessons. And time is your greatest asset. You cannot get it back.

Yeah. There there is no more time. You lose money, you can make more. You break something, you can fix it. You spend those eight hours doing something you wanna do, you can't get it back.

Right. You've given it away forever.

Steve: And I actually had a a conversation with Jason Lewis about this.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Because he has, Creation Utah, his wholesale flipping company, and he has investor machine.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: And so when we're talking about urgency, he's like, yeah, urgency is a core value in the wholesaling company, but it's not a core value in the direct mail company.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: Right? So he's like and I'm I'm trying to incorporate the same core values across all companies.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: So, like, if I have core like, urgency yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Speed delete. That's a KPI asymmetric.

We track all that.

Amanda: Right.

Steve: Right? But urgency is not a core value in in immediate production. Right? It's more like, this is what you need to get done. I expect to get done this time.

And if there's not gonna get done by this date, let us know in advance

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Not the day of.

Amanda: Right. Yeah. Working with clients always come in, and we've done the quarterlies before, and it's you know, always on track, on track, off track on their on their commitments and their ninety day, fast goals until it's, like, two weeks before it's off track. And I'm like, okay. So how was you on track for the last eight weeks, and all of a sudden you're off track?

And so I really try to move away from that that, that format anyway and really help people build a plan for what success looks like so that, to your point, we can hold people accountable. Like, what's the ownership? What are you doing? What did you do this week to move this forward? Right?

Everybody just is like, I'm on track. What they're waiting to do is at the eleventh hour Mhmm. Pull Houdini out of the hat or a rabbit out of the hat and just get it done. Mhmm. And they ultimately end up failing because they didn't plan.

Right? And I know it's it's, everybody says a lot of times, but if you don't you can't plan to win, you plan to fail. Right? So what what how are you gonna get there? What are you going to do?

Mhmm. But I I love that you update your core values. We did the same a few years ago. It was just something that had kinda changed, but pay attention to your team. Like, your core values can change.

We're different phases of your business, like, to your point. What you're doing today is not what you were doing ten years ago. Probably not what you're gonna be doing in ten years.

Steve: I hope not.

Amanda: Right. So what we're looking for in our team and and what gets us here and and everybody asked me, like, when I stepped down, what did that look like? I'm like, you know, I wasn't the one that's gonna push them to where they wanna go. You know? I I was a different season where they're at, and they're going to crush it.

But I was at a different place where, you know, it it means something different to me and and what my why looks like and energy. Right? Time, money, and resources is what we all have. Yeah. And what am I willing to put my energies in today is a lot different than it was ten and twenty years ago.

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah. If someone wants to reach out to you, how how can they best get ahold of you?

Amanda: So through Sharper. You know, we're all on social. I'm sure you'll post that up there, but sharperbusiness.com, and then, Sharper process, on Facebook. You can process on Instagram. Just reach out.

We have a wide variety of services. You know, we do everything from full circle where you can you know, we'll really help you with your processes and your procedures. And we don't just say you should do that. We help you do that. I feel like that's where a lot of clients don't realize, that they can like, we're gonna help you get that across the goal line.

They they know they need to do it. They don't necessarily know how they do it. It's like a root canal. So we have an entire team, for processes and procedures. We have sharper talent, you know, hiring.

These guys have hired thousands of people people in this industry. They know how to identify the right seats and how to find people. So we just have a a variety of services, coaching, counseling, or just whatever you need for your business. We it's not like yours you have to fit our box. We have enough, tools in the in the tool belt that we can meet your needs.

Steve: Yeah. And I can attest to it. Right? I mean, I've known Gary for a long, long time. He's ran multiple annual meetings for me.

Mhmm. And we got to work with you for the last, I wanna say, six to nine months. Mhmm. Incredibly valuable, and it's helped my team a lot, so I appreciate you.

Amanda: Thank you. And the RISE framework, you know, everybody's used to the EOS, but, you know, RISE has just come out, and Gary's done a really good job with it. It's a lot of tactical tools. Right? And that's where ES is what you should do, but it doesn't really you know, you kinda wane past that.

Like, okay. We got there. We're what's next? And so RISE really does help us push past that a little bit, and it provides more tactical long term planning, like succession planning, move moving through the different phases. So there's a lot of value in that.

Steve: For me, the the biggest difference I saw from that one versus some some other curriculums is the people component.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Like, how to measure, how to ensure you're getting the right people because that's the part that everyone screws up. Right? Like, finances, that's a difficult concept, but that's not necessarily a a a an EO or an entrepreneurial organization type of book. That's really more like, just get the right

Amanda: person. Yeah. Right? If it was so easy. Right?

Steve: But the other stuff, the the people, culture, the the growth mindset

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: The willingness to do it, the capacity to grow with the company versus, like, this person you can hire for this season in your career Mhmm. Or your your business, but they might not stick around in the next season. That's the wrong hire. But you don't know that unless you got the right curriculum to measure the capacity as well.

Amanda: Yeah. I see a lot of, communications. Everybody's asking, what's the PI for this position? What's the PI for this position? And I'm like, stop.

I'm like, not all these positions are created equal. What you consider what your sales manager may be different on another sales manager or acquisitions rep or lead manager, I'm like, you know, get in there, build the role for the person, hire the right person. Don't just try to copy what somebody else does. Right. You know, I see teams where this person does nothing but give an offer.

They have VAs that are answering the phone. This person over somebody stateside, and, you know, they're doing everything but running the appointment. Like, those are not the same profiles.

Steve: Right.

Amanda: Right? So we really want to focus on hiring the right people at the right time, and how do we help those people grow. Mhmm. Like, I never wanna hire somebody where I only see them in this position. Like, I wanna see their growth trajectory before I ever hire them, and how can I help them get there?

Right.

Steve: Because when

Amanda: you get to your point, just like what you do with sales repters, when you invest in others, you're the one that benefits in the long run.

Steve: Absolutely.

Amanda: Mhmm.

Steve: Yep. Alright. Thank you so much. Pleasure.

Amanda: Thank you.

Steve: I'll see you guys next time.

Amanda: Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. We real estate disrupt us.