How Wholesaling Will Change in 2024

Devin Robinson: I came across a TikTok, and this TikTok said, hey. Do you wanna make more you wanna make money in real estate without any credit and without any cash?

Steve Trang: And I was like I went to my wife, and

Devin: I was like, babe, check this out. You should try this. And she was like, no. And I was like, alright. I'll do it.

And so I went to my mom and I was like, mom, I mean, I've joined this discord. I'm trying to learn this thing about, like, real estate. So I was like, I'm thinking about doing this thing. And she goes, you know, that's what I do. Right?

And I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, I work at a hedge fund, and I work with wholesale I purchase properties from wholesalers. Little did I know, she was one of the, like, five acquisitionists at Amherst.

Steve: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disrupters. Today, we've got Devin Robinson with the installment method, and Devin flew in from Charlotte, North Carolina to talk about how to wholesale in 2024. Now I'm gonna mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years.

If you'll take consistent action, you will become one. And this show is brought to you by our sister company, Investor Lift. Get access to millions of cash buyers across the country. Go to investorlift.com, put in disruptors to get 10% off. And, guys, if you get value out of today's show, please hit that subscribe button.

That way we can all grow together. You ready?

Devin: Let's get it.

Steve: Alright. So first question is, what was your life like right before you got into real estate?

Devin: Oh, okay. Right before real estate. That's a good question. People are always like, oh, what was your life like when you were a kid growing up? Yeah.

Right before real estate was really interesting. So I am on my and I have a spreadsheet for this. It's kinda funny. I got a spreadsheet. I'm on my, like, sixteenth venture, eighth business, and, like, I take, like, I put as a venture, sometimes I'll put, like, a course that I've done before or, like, YouTube or a podcast.

I think that's, like, you put effort into it, that's a venture. But, like, my eighth business, some have crashed and burned, some I've sold, which so I am coming out of I'm coming out of a wedding photography company. So I owned a wedding photography company, but, like, not like, oh, that's cute. You take photos. That's nice.

And and I'm really thankful. I was able to build this up to probably, like, top 1% of top 1% of wedding photographers in the in the in the world, probably. I spoke at conferences around the world, photographed weddings in 26 different countries Mhmm. Around the world, photographed celebrities, you name it, at the Biltmore, like, you name it. So, really interesting.

It was a it was a really cool experience. My wife and I got to travel to every island and bunch of countries and do that stuff. So it was good for that season of life. But then once we started, like, fostering kids and settling down, weddings are all, like, nights and weekends. And so, like, it just kinda sucked honestly to get videos of my kids being, like, night night, daddy.

You know? And, like so then and then, like, I don't know how much you wanted to go into this, jeez. But there was, like, a season where my son played baseball. In baseball, his all his games are on Saturdays, but all weddings are on Saturdays. And so I went to his first baseball game, and, it was fun and it was awesome because I played baseball in college.

I want my son. He's a massive he's six years old and he's, like, four foot four, so he's a massive child. And so I want him to be athletic and love these things, but I went to that first game, and I had weddings for the rest of the summer and missed every single game, and he didn't even make it to the end of the season. He quit, like, three or four three or four games in. And so for me, I was like, if I was there, would he have quit?

And so I just at that point, I was like, this is not this is not the lifestyle for me. I want to I want to work a nine to five, take my kids. So I have nonnegotiables now. I take my kids to school every every other day, and then I pick them up from school every day. It's a nonnegotiable.

All my company knows if they call me at this time, I'm literally with my kids in the car. Mhmm. So, like, don't call me. And so, I like that.

Steve: So I have people when they call me, it's like, are your kids in the car? Yeah. Because they know Yeah. That's right. Or chaperoning between, between from either piano to kung fu or whatever.

They just know that I'm in the middle of chaperoning Yeah. With the kids. So you talk about, like, a a photography business. I mean, like, let's let's talk about, like, you know, you say a business. Yeah.

This is not a side hustle. This is not

Devin: Oh, no.

Steve: You're you're you're this is not something that you're just doing on the on on the weekends in operation.

Devin: Oh, yes. So I had 15 photographers at seven different states at one point. We were doing a 100 and, like, 30 weddings a year, and my average cost for my photographers was around $6,000 a wedding. The average cost for me is, like, 15,000 a wedding. So, like, no.

This is not, like this is all I did.

Steve: Yeah. And you were talking to me about this. I was, like, crazy. Like, to justify you going out to another country Yeah. It has to be significant cost.

Yeah. So, like, you were saying, like, you know, just to fly to Paris Yeah. Like, what's it what are you charging for you to go fly to Paris?

Devin: Yeah. So typically, like, it would be my regular package collection, which they're like, when I finished, my packages were like, 9,000, but nobody ever booked that one because it was like, you don't get anything for that. The next one was like 12,000 and then or 12,500 and the next one was 21,000. And so 21,000 included a lot of the the flights and stuff like that, but if people didn't go with that one, then it would be whatever the cost of whatever the cost of flying there plus the accommodations and then plus, like, a day rate because, like, when I go internationally, I'm gone for five days. Mhmm.

And that sucks, be away from my family for five days. If I'm, like, stateside, I'm gone for three days. But internationally is just, like, a whole different thing because I don't wanna fly. I could tell you some crazy stories of me flying to other countries and flights getting delayed or whatever. So, like, it's like, I'm not flying in the day before the wedding because what if I miss the wedding?

That would suck. And I've had some very close calls, so it's pretty expensive.

Steve: Who's the most famous person you did for a wedding?

Devin: I did I actually did a lot of professional athletes. So cool guy, Charlie Blackman, plays for the Rockies, Craig I. Walker Buehler for the Dodgers. I'm a diehard Dodgers fan. Got the tattoo right here.

Walker Buehler, another Rockies pitcher. So mostly, like, professional baseball players.

Steve: Yeah. I'm sorry to hear about the the Dodgers.

Devin: I think I think

Steve: I think I think we stopped you guys in the in the playoffs this year, but it's no big deal. Oh, well fastest in the fastest. It's fine.

Devin: Who wait. Who's your team again? Oh, the Diamondbacks? Oh my gosh. Please.

Please.

Steve: So, alright. So you saw what was happening with your son

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: And you saw that this is not lining up with what you wanted to do. How profitable was the wedding business before you shut it down?

Devin: Good question. So I think we're we're operating at, like, 70% profit margins because, like, really, it comes down to time. I was outsourcing a lot of the, I was outsourcing a lot of the the, the editing to an outsourcing agency, and then I would just pay my people for the time that they were there. So, like, let's say I had a $6,000 wedding, probably about $33,000 of that is $3,000 of that one specifically is going to be expenses, whether it be from the editors to paying my contracted photographers and then storage, stuff like that. But then if I'm shooting a wedding, then the profit margins are significantly higher because then all I'm paying for is the storage and the editing, whereas, this is funny that we're talking about this, whereas, like so then and then I'm paying myself.

So and that comes out of a salary from the company, so the profit margins are much higher when I book myself. This Right. Yes.

Steve: But you're making, like, 6 figures?

Devin: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I tried to I tried not to be too crazy, but my salary was 6 figures for sure doing that.

Steve: Okay. Because just for context. Right? Because for someone that's shut down a lucrative business that, you know, like, you got all your dopamine hits. You're speaking

Devin: Yeah.

Steve: At events. You were running conferences.

Devin: Yeah.

Steve: There's a lot of dopamine in there. There is. You feel pretty good about yourself. So to walk away from something where you have reputation

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: And money Yeah. It's not a small fee.

Devin: That's true.

Steve: So what was that like making that transition?

Devin: Great question. Great question. For me, it came down to the lifestyle I wanted, really to be able to have well and this is also really funny. So I love doing a bunch of different things, and I always have my hands in a bunch of different things. And I'm learning now to scale that down, to be really intentional and direct my life in a certain way for a vision that I have.

But, I, at the time, I was running this business, and it was kinda getting like, because I've been doing it for five or six years. And I actually had a boss once tell me, he was like, Devin, I don't think you'll ever work for one person for longer than five years. And I was like, well, we'll see. I did quit that job when they were trying to give me a promotion, so he's probably right. But I was getting to that five year range, I guess, I would say in that business, and it just kinda got to where I was like, there's not really any more way I can go in this.

It's a wedding photography company. You can't unless I'd scale up the more more amount of people that I have in the company and and all of that, which is just like, you can only charge so much for a wedding. You can only do this. And then I'll and so I came across a TikTok, and this TikTok said, hey. Do you wanna make more you wanna make money in real estate without any credit and without any cash?

And I was

Steve: like I went to my wife, and

Devin: I was like, babe, check this out. You should try this. And she was like, no. And I was like, alright. I'll do it.

And so, because of TikTok, I saw I I got introduced to, like, real estate wholesaling, and we took off so fast, that it was a little bit scary. And I'll give you a little bit of a secret why. So I went to my mom, and I was like, mom, I mean, I've joined this discord. I'm trying to learn this thing about, like, real estate because, like, I've got I've gotten to this point in in wedding photography. I wanna start looking into real estate.

Real estate is like it seems like the next natural progression to investing when you got more money. So I was like, I'm thinking about doing this thing, and she goes, you know, that's what I do. Right? And I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, I work at a hedge fund, and I work with wholesale.

I purchased properties from wholesalers. Little did I know, she was one of the, like, five acquisitionists at Amherst. So, so I was like, oh, interesting. So then she was like, you should just do this. You should go on Zillow for sale by owner, and you should, man, this is a heck of a story.

You should go on Zillow for sale by owner, start negotiating with them, and then, like, you can sell them to us. And I was like, fantastic. Let me go ahead and start doing that. So then it started I started doing it. It started working.

So I got together with some of my friends, and I was like, guys, this is incredible. I think we can make we can make 20 we're making $20,000 a house because that's the most that a hedge fund will let you do. So we're anywhere between, like, 7 and $10,000 a house. And I was like, guys, I've got the plug. So all you do, you guys go negotiate these with these Zillow for sale by owner people, and then I've got the connection.

I'll give you 50%. Little did I know, like, this would turn into a huge business. So we did in the first six months, we did 70 deals. So it grew very fast. So in six months, we did, like, $700,000.

And, like, I didn't even know what the heck co selling was. Mhmm. And, and I was giving away the farm. I didn't realize it was quickly gonna turn into a business, so then it started taking up a lot of my time, but I saw it to be, like, significantly better and easier and more, like, better on my time than wedding photography. So it just I actually did not exit very well at all from that wedding photography company.

I was just like, okay. No. I'm done. And, like, cold turkey kind of just, like, stopped and let the people that I did have SOPs built out and stuff, but not as well as I do now. And so then it started just slowly declining until I sold it.

And so, because it's still, like, in my area in Charlotte, it's one of it's still one of the largest I haven't touched it in two years, and the sell is just finalizing. And so, like, it's still one of the largest wedding photography companies in Charlotte, and I haven't touched it in two years. And so the, so the the transition happened, but the thing that really affected me was that I was giving away the farm to my friends because I didn't realize it was gonna actually turn into a business. And I was paying for CG and doing all these expenses while they were taking literally 50% of, gross revenue from everything we brought in. So they were living it up.

I had acquisition people making, like, 80 k in in three months, and so they were living it up. And they were some of my best friends as well, which made this extremely difficult because I brought in my business partner, Carl, and we just realized quickly, like, hey. This can't this is not sustainable. We can't do this. So then I, and I'm really thankful, was in Collective Genius, still am, was in Collective Genius and was like, hey, guys.

What's the normal rate for an acquisition person? What does that look like? Because I'm paying 50%. You know? And they're like, oh, what?

You're an idiot. So I, then I went back to my friends because I like, we got I think

Steve: you and I had this conversation as well.

Devin: I think we I think we did on the phone. Yeah. I think we did. Because, like, I was actually, like, woah. Thanks for Facebook messaging me back and giving me your phone number.

And so I do remember that, and I was super thankful for that conversation. So I went to so we all we all got together. They lived in San Diego. We got together, and I was like, guys, I can't pay you this much. And they're like, no, Devin.

We love you. We know. Like, we're good friends. We're in for you. Whatever you want.

And I was like, listen. Most, like, acquisition people get paid eight, twelve, not even really 15%, maybe. And so I was like, but I'll do, like, 2020% for you guys because and they were just like, no. And, and it really was hard because in that moment, like, these people that we thought we were gonna like, my our best friends, we were gonna move to San Diego, be a part of something with them, and and they were really good friends with us. They ended up completely turning on me, and one of them kept doing that stuff with my mom, like, without me.

And so, like, it was just really tough season to see, like, my friends do that. And then what happened after that was the, the market started crashing. Like, the market started going down. Hedge funds stopped buying. Everything started, like, drying up, and then, I didn't know what the heck I was doing.

Mhmm. I really didn't. I had to lay off my staff. We had no more so from so from July, June, July to October, 70 deals. And then from October or November to to February, four deals.

And so, like, literally jumped right off of a table, crashed and burned, and and I didn't know what to do. And so I spent from I had to lay off my staff, and I remember, the one thing that I that I knew in my heart of hearts was, like, this is worth it, though. Mhmm. Like, I could have quit. I could have gone back to what I knew was comfortable.

I could have gone back to wedding photographer, but, like, this was it. And not because, like, oh, the money seems like it's good, but I think there's a unique opportunity to scale impact, when you get into something that like real estate. And you can be able to build generational wealth with it. You can be able to affect the world with it. You could be able to do so many things that I was like, this is it.

This is what I want to dedicate and work really hard on. So I spent the next six months literally head down building out SOPs, and one of the biggest ways that I was because the reason I was able to do that was because I had people in Mastermind helping me through that. So I wasn't, like, on it by myself, because I think a smart person learns from their own mistakes, but a wise person learns from others' mistakes. And so being able to have people around me that can help me with those mistakes was really or maybe help me not go through those mistakes or help me recover from my mistakes Mhmm. Was significantly, like, just kinda one of the best things I ever had for me.

Steve: Do you remember which TikTok video?

Devin: Oh, I know exactly the TikTok video. Happy Super Bowl Sunday, guys. My name is Tom Cruise, and this is how you scale section eight. So, like,

Steve: this is this is exact. But that's not even also. That's section eight.

Devin: I know. I know it isn't. But, like, he

Steve: had this discord, and then, like, it got me into the, I just know it.

Devin: It got me into, like, the mindset of getting into real estate investing because part of it too was, like, part of his whole pitch on that too is, like, oh, and then if you want to, like, to cash flow, you can just wholesale this off to somebody else. And I was like, oh, that's really interesting. I joined the Discord, and then my mom intersected and was like, this is what I do. Yeah. Here's wholesaling.

Steve: Yeah. Tom Cruise. So it's, it's funny. Right? You're looking at this guy.

This is he went viral Oh, I mean not that long ago. A lot. But he's like, yeah. You know, like, I'm not gonna like, we when we plan our vacations, we don't ask these people because they're poor.

Devin: Yeah. Right? He

Steve: didn't do that because he's got a spreadsheet of his friends and his friends on how much they could spend on vacation. Like, would they be able to spend this much? Like, do they have the time Mhmm. From work to do it?

Devin: And so they don't have

Steve: Yeah. That one I mean, he actually took that one down because he caught so much heat for it. But when you talk about, like, if you wanna have, like, a soft flex That it worked. And, like, you bring it up here, but I've had a couple people, like, you know, what do you think of this guys? Like, I can tell the guy runs a legitimate business.

Right?

Devin: Yeah. He really does.

Steve: He might seem goofy. Right? But he's not saying anything that sounds wrong. Nope. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So you you get in there. You crush it. Was Carl part of your organization at this time?

Devin: So he wasn't part of it while we were crushing it. And so it's so funny.

Steve: Got to see, like, the the sloppy what what what was available

Devin: Yeah. That's exactly right.

Steve: After the crash. That's exactly right. And it's funny because we joke because it was like,

Devin: it was all fine till you came in here, Carl. But, like, he's been incredible for me. Still with me and then we have other businesses together as well. And so it's just written he is an incredibly smart he actually is a guy who he's and this is what one of the cool things about our fund. Like, I I run a fund.

This is the first time I'm mentioning this on the podcast, but we have a goal too to be the largest minority owned real estate fund in America. Mhmm. I'm black and Middle Eastern. I'd I'm a say it on the podcast. I joke.

That's, like, one of the the two worst things to be in America, black and Middle Eastern. And so, like, I'm black and Middle Eastern. I love, and I love that heritage and I actually just The Robinsons

Steve: from the Middle Eastern side.

Devin: That's exactly right. The Robinsons. And then I have a, a black, black my other partner is black, six foot nine. We call ourselves d Robin Big because he's huge. We went to college together.

And then you've got Carl who is a South African immigrant who immigrated here during the apartheid. So, like, we are minorities that run this fund, and it's really cool to have Carl because he's incredibly intelligent and never had a b in his life on anything. He's a genius, and so it's cool to have him part of, like, what we've done, but we joke that he's the reason it all

Steve: crashed and burned. Well, he definitely operates in the genius. So I can see that. Right? Having listened to him present in Collective Genius, he's definitely living inside that that genius zone.

Devin: Well, there's no doubt.

Steve: Okay. So crash and burn.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: Your friends. I've I've gone different directions.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: So what was it like then picking the pieces back up? Right? Because this was, I mean, this is last year.

Devin: Yeah. This is so this is, oh, 2022. Yeah. 2022.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. When it all happened. When the funds stopped buying. Stopped buying.

That's right. So then what was your what did you do when the funds stopped buying?

Devin: So, I I just know like, I just knew that in my, like, heart of hearts that I don't even know what that phrase means. But, anyways, in my heart of hearts, I knew that, like, this is it. It's real estate. I'm this far in it. I understand real estate.

I just need to push put my head down and, like, and push past this. And so for me, for the next six months, I just spent time searching and decide, like, what is real estate wholesaling? How do I do this? And how do I actually build out systems and processes? So, like, if you knew me in college or before this business, I am the outgoing, not system and processes, fly by the edge of my seat.

Now if you know me now, it's it's interesting. In Select, people come to me for, like, building out systems and processes for them. And so, like, I just I just took on this whole role of, like, what I needed to be, and I and I use this phrase, for us for now. So for us for now, I needed to be in the position to where, like, I'm building this thing out to have a really strong foundation so that once we once we have money or once we have whatever, then we can build off a solid foundation. So then six months go by.

I'm sitting in a room in CG, and this guy named Michael Franke gets up, and he and he gives a presentation on foreclosures. Mhmm. And I was like, oh, that's really interesting. I don't have a whole lot of money to put into marketing right now. I had one cold caller and then but I realized I had no sales process, which was not a sales process.

Who cares if you got a cold caller? Like, if you don't have a sales process, hire freaking Steve so you can get a sales process because it doesn't matter what your marketing does if you have no idea how to close people. So that's the phase I was in.

Steve: Mhmm.

Devin: Build out the systems and processes. Sweet. Got the processes going. Let's start our marketing. Sweet.

And then we got our marketing and I was like, yo, We're getting leads, and I have no idea how to close these people. So then Michael gives this presentation on foreclosures, and Carl, Wise and who he is, he was like, this is it, Devin. It's foreclosures. Like, this is what we need to be doing. This is what we need to pivot to.

And I was like, but I just got this cold calling stuff. Give me a little bit. So I started building out right after Michael gave that presentation, I started building out the foreclosure SOP, full foreclosure. I took his presentation, built out a full SOP based off of his presentation, and then, was still trying to do my cold calling thing and wasn't closing anything. And then I took, and then I started learning a lot more about sales process.

So, like, I started learning from you on sales process. I started learning from Eric Klein on sales and processes. I started learning from Ryn on sales and processes, and it's, like, how to build that out and what would be applicable for what we were doing. And then we went all in in foreclosures. So that was June that he gave that presentation.

And I would say the August, we went all in on foreclosures, and then, like, like, I built out a very robust marketing to foreclosures operation, and we scaled very quickly on that, which was really cool.

Steve: What was that robust?

Devin: Okay. Great. Yeah. So, I'm happy. Like I said, like, very open book.

I'll give it all. So one of the things that we did was we built out cold calling. So I had we do foreclosures in four different states now. So I had a cold caller for each state that was going through and dialing. We had a dialer that would dial twice a week to all the foreclosure listings.

We learned how to go to the, foreclosure attorneys to get the most up to date information, all that stuff. So we weren't using, like, batch leaks to pull our data. I had a I had a VA pulling off of foreclosure sites every single day, and then I would put that onto a spreadsheet. And then I had a batch dialer twice a week that would call the different the spreadsheet on the different states, but then I would have a cold caller for each state manually on Google Voice calling each of those because we seem to have a much higher, rate of connectivity on those or whatever the rate is called. We had a much better connecting rate on that.

Then I also had all of my acquisitions sending text videos to each foreclosure that we had on the list, and that was extremely powerful for those text videos because also you have an iPhone. Right? Mhmm. Steve, let's say you get a a text message and it comes in green. What do you think?

Steve: Android.

Devin: And okay. Android?

Steve: Or PC or spam.

Devin: Or or spam or a business or something like that. And so one of the things that I found that, like, there's a psychological trust that comes to with a blue text message. Mhmm. If you have an iPhone and it's blue, if you don't know the number, you go, who is this? I do I know this person?

Because you know they're real. And so for us, I had all my people using iPhones, and then I I still do. I have them all using iPhones. I have them sending text videos, and then they'll send text as well or text pictures just kind of depending. And then, then one of the things we also know that is when we put that phone number in a in a in an iPhone and it comes up blue as well, we know that's a working number.

We know that's a real working number. So then we can, like, target that phone number if we need to. So we really built out the systems and processes for doing that effectively, and that scaled us pretty quickly. And we were doing some pretty big deals, and we still do. So

Steve: so when we did that some time ago, because this one texting got a little bit harder a couple years back, and, delivery bay deliverability rate went down. So we just got burner phones. Nice. And we were sending text messages not from iPhones or from a MacBook.

Devin: Yeah.

Steve: We got Okay.

Devin: We got

Steve: a MacBook, so we can just text them all. And we found a limit to how many text message you could send per day from your Apple ID.

Devin: Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, interesting.

Steve: We did

Devin: not found that.

Steve: I don't know. I don't remember what it was, but I was like, man, we got this workaround. No. We don't.

Devin: But I wonder if it's because were you doing, like, niche data, or were you doing still

Steve: I think we were using at this time, I think we were hitting all the people that were on a criminal, civil complaints. So criminal complaints, civil complaints, or, what's the third thing? But it's it's a list that's Shutoffs? It's no. It's a list that's not generally available.

Like, we had to go through the city.

Devin: Interesting.

Steve: And we started a whole, like, nonprofit and everything to

Devin: Get real work around.

Steve: To get this list.

Devin: Hopefully, that list was worth it.

Steve: You know, at the end of the day, it's been an incredible ROI, but it's not scalable.

Devin: Okay. That makes sense. So

Steve: alright. So, using your iPhone, you're texting and sending video messages.

Devin: Yeah. That was that's, like, the most powerful one. I we would get grown men. Like, when we go on our appointments, grown men crying being like like, we had a guy, distinctly remember, in the army, older guy, grown man be like, it felt like you guys cared about me. Mhmm.

Like, it felt like I like, it was like nobody else. And we're not pitching, like, sell your house. We're pitching, like, let us help you to escape foreclosure. Mhmm. You know?

And so then we walked through that pitch and whatever that is. And so, for him, he felt like we actually valued and cared about him when he was in one of the darkest times of his life and didn't know who he could turn to. So those videos were, like, huge for that. Yeah.

Steve: So it's funny because Michael Francke gives this presentation. Right? And John Kleisch Yep. In my market.

Devin: Love John.

Steve: Right? Also CD Select. Mhmm. And so we bought this property. That was preforeclosure.

Devin: Uh-oh.

Steve: But, even though we we didn't buy this property. Sorry. We recorded memorandum of this property. So whatever happened in the county, we became the official owner on public records even though we didn't actually own it.

Devin: Okay. Interesting.

Steve: So when he's skip tracing the homeowner, he's getting my cell phone. Steve got a foreclosure video. And so I got this foreclosure video from John Clich. He's like, what is this? Like, this is brilliant.

I love it. It's like, oh, it's something I took with Michael Franches, which is cool. Yeah. Alright? Fantastic.

So so, obviously, Michael, when you're watching this like

Devin: that goat.

Steve: That presentation obviously had a big impact. I mean, you've talked about it you talked about it here. I I received it from John, Jimmy Rieland, one of the guys on PTD. He's like, he redid everything in his operations based off that presentation from Michael. So Fantastic.

Because we're gonna have Michael on the show.

Devin: You gotta have him on. Yeah. He and the good thing about him, he'll come and he'll give all of the value that he can. So which is what I love about him.

Steve: So alright. So you go back and you read and say, okay. This is it in foreclosures. We're gonna I mean, I love you. It's like you went straight to the source.

Right? A lot of us are getting data from data providers, which is nothing wrong with it. It's just there's a time delay.

Devin: That's right. That's exactly right. The time delay.

Steve: Yeah. So you're getting fresh.

Devin: Muddies the water.

Steve: Muddies the water. So you're getting as fresh as possible. Mhmm. And you're sending video messages. So you got cold callers.

You have sending video messages. So then what does your business look like as after you execute this process?

Devin: Cool. So for us then, then I actually started building out KPIs. Like, understanding exactly so we had a huge spreadsheet of, like, what the KPRs because, like, that's also not very trackable. Mhmm.

Steve: So I had to build out

Devin: a way to make it trackable.

Steve: Well, especially because it's not in Salesforce.

Devin: It's not in Salesforce. It's somebody's iPhone. And so then I had to create spreadsheets that were, like, every time they click so, like, it was, like, hey, guys.

Steve: You have this up. Just click a dot. When you click a dot,

Devin: it adds all the dots up, and then it puts it in the column on how many dots there are when you send a thing. So, like, definitely the honor system on it, but, like, I try to make it as simple as I possibly could for them. Dot. Just just like just click you could click any key, and it counts that as a keystroke, and then it puts it in the column, and it counts there's 40 keystrokes. The number is 40.

And so then, like, built out a huge KPI spreadsheet for them to have it. So then we became scalable to understand, like, what are the targets that we have to hit. And so we started hitting 200 months, pretty quickly after that, which I'm super thankful for. And so,

Steve: Their company provide iPhones or their iPhones?

Devin: Company provided. So, if you're a guy, you use your own iPhone until you get your first deal under contract. If you're a girl, you get an iPhone for us from us because, like, that's just sure. We wanna protect our guys, but we definitely wanna make sure the women are protected from us, by us. And so we got the ladies' iPhones.

The guys, when you got a house under contract, then you got an iPhone.

Steve: Yeah.

Devin: So that's kinda how we did it. So they used their own until then. Gotcha. And so yeah. Then we started scaling up, and then we were closing.

We were doing about six contracts a month at that point, which is fantastic for us because our average deal was at 60 k. So, like, we were crushing it. And then we figured out a way to not pitch people. So when we pitched people, we didn't give them an offer on their house. It it we we stopped giving them a number on the house.

So at all, there was no number. It was like it turned into, like, what the service was for them, and then they gave us the number. Mhmm. And when you do that, two things happen. They feel valued.

They feel served. Our profits went significantly higher. Yeah. Like, our profits went way higher. And so by doing that

Steve: What was, you said you're in four states?

Devin: Yep. North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. But then we took out Florida because Florida freaking sucks for foreclosures because they'll let somebody be in foreclosure for, like, three years. It's ridiculous. Georgia didn't do as well as we wanted it to do, and then we crushed it in South Carolina.

We crushed it in South Carolina because wholesaling is essentially, if you try to wholesale in South Carolina, they'll send you a cease and desist letter. And so that actually eliminated a ton of the the a ton of the competition for us in South Carolina because we weren't wholesaling in South Carolina. We're doing installment method. Gotcha. And so that actually gave us a huge advantage on foreclosures in South Carolina.

Steve: Gotcha. So before we get to that, so you you you joined Collective Genius. Mhmm. Why did you join Collective Genius?

Devin: So I am a huge fan of education. So I was an educator in other industries, and I equate education like this. I think that education is like you you know, when you go you travel a lot. So and this is in the Phoenix Airport. They've got those movable walkways.

Right? Mhmm. I will a 100% of the time take those because I'll jump on those, and then I'll look at the person next to me and look at how fast he's running, and I try to walk as slow as I can. I take really slow steps and still see. He's walking super fast, and I'm like this.

So I know if I move my feet faster, I'm gonna fly by him. Mhmm. Education is a lot like that. Education is like the conveyor belt at the airport where I have the I have the experience. I have the the skills.

I have the information from somebody else guiding me and propelling me forward where I can work really, really hard by myself to try to figure that out. But if I'm, on the back of somebody else's experience and and information and knowledge, the faster I walk, the further I go. Far faster than if I were able to do it by myself. And so I knew that for me to do really well in this new industry, I was gonna need help. And so I dove I dove right into I mean, it's funny because, I I met with Leon, and I probably hadn't been wholesaling for longer than, like, two months.

And so I met with Leon, and he was like, this is weird. I've never seen anything like this. And so, because of our business acumen, because of me and Carl, he had us go into Premiere. Super thankful for that. And then what I had noticed was Premiere is amazing, but I'm sitting in rooms where they're like, here's how you shelter $5,000,000 in taxes, and here's how you do this.

And And I'm like, bro, we are not the same. And so, I had, before so before and I guess before Different

Steve: challenges.

Devin: Different challenges. Before I was a wedding photographer, I was a college pastor at a church in Charlotte, and then I ended up being a high school baseball and football coach there. And I coached with a guy named Grady Little who was took the Red Sox and the Dodgers to the worlds almost to the World Series. But then he retired and decided to serve in the church. And when he did, Sports Illustrated so he decided he was like, okay.

I wanna be the high school baseball coach here. Just serve my time and my experience. Sports Illustrated comes, and they're like, the most overqualified high school baseball coach in America. And so I was his assistant coach Okay. There, which is kind of wild.

But the one thing about Grady is Grady signed David Ortiz, Clayton Kershaw, the best people, like, in baseball history. He signed and managed them, but he had no idea how to train a ninth rising ninth grader on how to fill the ground ball. And so that's how I felt in Premiere. You've got a bunch of people like Grady Little who are kind of a little bit removed from the fundamentals of wholesaling and had no idea how to help me. And so I was like, Leon, I think I wanna go down to Select, because, like, I need to learn how to field a ground ball before I can be assigned to the majors.

Mhmm. And so take me back down. And so, I ended up going back down because of that, which was super helpful. But so but CG without CG and without mentorship in in general, this business will not exist right now. The impact that I'm going to have in the world would not be possible.

And so I just think without mentorship or education in general, I wouldn't be where I am. And so I knew that early on, and so that's why I went into CG.

Steve: And you won some belts along the way?

Devin: Oh, I did. It's funny. I got third place in premier, second place in select, and then first place select, first place select. Mhmm. And then if we had if we had I I strongly believe, if we had belts at the time like we do now for the tracks, I would have won a belt for my AI presentation.

So I think I would have three belts.

Steve: I saw that AI presentation. Oh. It was pretty good.

Devin: You liked it?

Steve: I liked it. Right? So that's actually the reason why. So we have three cameras in here for those of you guys you can't

Devin: see it.

Steve: Right? We have three different angles. We use AutoPOD. Hey. AutoPOD is Because I'm staring, I was like, okay.

This guy's really into AI, and, these are some great recommendations. Like, alright. Let's go back and use autopilot. So now we don't have a switcher.

Devin: Let's go.

Steve: Right? And the command command center anymore.

Devin: Taking away a job.

Steve: Yeah. I'm just joking. Oh, they could we could reallocate those resources and efforts elsewhere.

Devin: Because that that's what that's also I I think that it's not AI that's gonna take away jobs. It's the people not using AI that's gonna take away. Right.

Steve: And that's what that's how you open that presentation. It's like AI is not here to take your job. Yeah. It has to help you be more effective at your job.

Devin: That's exactly right.

Steve: If you choose opt out of it, that's fine. You just you're choosing opt out of having a job.

Devin: That's exactly right. So, I'm glad that you are reallocating those efforts.

Steve: Absolutely. We're always we're always reallocating. So, so let's talk about AI real quick then.

Devin: Let's go.

Steve: Alright. So talk to me. Like, what what what is this passion about artificial intelligence?

Devin: Oh, I all my life, oh, this could get, like, psychologically something something different. But I I think, like, for me, I'm always in the I'm always in the camp of progress. Like, innovation, it's one of our core values is innovation, is moving and progressing. It's disrupting wherever we go into, which is why I love the name of this podcast, disruptors. It's disrupting whatever industry.

You were gonna say something? No. Okay. Disrupting the industry, disrupting wherever I can by utilizing the best technology that's available for us. I just think if somebody's created it, I think that God has given somebody the ability to create something that has not been done before or is gonna revolutionize the world, then I think there's no there's no reason not to be an early adapter to it.

I'm just an early adapter onto things. And so I just dove in and was like, yo. This is so fascinating because you can scale. So for me, I also own a virtual assistant staffing company. And for me to be able to optimize the efforts of my virtual assistants with AI allows you literally to scale what they can do.

Mhmm. And so I'm like, why make it harder on myself when I can make it significantly more efficient because of AI to not have to switch cameras or to not have to create content and chop it up and put the words in there or to not have to create so I use AI for my SOPs. I use AI for a ton of things. And so it's like, why would I do that myself when literally I could pay $20 a month for something else to do it, and that scales my time significantly. So I just I just don't see any reason not to do it.

And people are gonna be, oh, oh, Steve, Steve. The thing that gets me is when people are like, don't let your kids use AI because because it's gonna make them dumb, like, you know, because then they're gonna have a crutch and they're gonna do all this and I'm gonna go and I'm thinking, what happens when everybody in the world is using AI and they have no idea how to use it? Like, how do we use AI to help their educational advancement? Because I think there's so many things. Instead of having to hire a tutor, they've created tutors for kids that are artificial intelligence that are actually way better at, at seeing tendencies, that are way better at teaching to the style that these kids learn at.

And so I'm just like, why not introduce your kid to the future of what they're going to be in? Because in the next ten years, their life will be AI. Mhmm. In some way, shape, or form, they're gonna wake up in the morning, and it's AI that monitors the sleep that they got, that tells them what they should eat for breakfast, or tells them whatever to be able to bring them back up to the energy level they need. Like, that's gonna be what the future is.

Steve: Gary Vee kinda talks about this. Like, you know, we're all trying to take away the devices from our kids, which I am still in that camp. But we're taking device away from our kids because, like, we want them to interact, go outside, this

Devin: and that.

Steve: It's like and there's nothing wrong with that belief. Right? He's like,

Devin: what is he gonna be interacting with?

Steve: This is the way it is right now. And guess what? Like, yeah, you're fighting the good fight today. No one else is. And so when your kid gets to graduate college, whatever, when they go to college, like

Devin: Huge disadvantage.

Steve: This is the way the society is. So you are stopping them Mhmm. From being a part of society. So it's it's interesting.

Devin: It is really interesting.

Steve: I don't I don't think he's wrong. I don't think he's necessarily right, but I don't think he's necessarily wrong either.

Devin: And I do think there's a ton of value in, like, our kids. We try to monitor tablet time and do all those things. But there's also times where we have set aside time where I'm like, guys, let's use Midjourney and use our imagination on what we can create. Mhmm. Like, let's create a children's book together.

Like, my kids, we we use AI as our, like, creative how can we utilize this to improve our life? You know? Like, it's really cool because I'm like, hey, guys. Name three things you want tonight's story to be about. So Ashton and Amaya are my kids.

I'm like, where do you wanna be? Like, what land do you wanna live in? And, like, what Pokemon do you wanna be? And then, like, AI creates the bed night bedtime story for us based off of what they want. We do it, like, every night, and they love it.

And so, like, there's just so many unique things that you could do That's

Steve: pretty cool.

Devin: To, like, use your kids' imaginations to be able to help them to, like, start to integrate into the world that they're gonna live in Mhmm. For the rest of their life. So it's really interesting.

Steve: So we're gonna get to installment method. Before we do

Devin: that Maybe.

Steve: We're gonna get to that. Before we do that, you're talking about raising capital, and you have this this BHAG.

Devin: Yep. That's right.

Steve: What's the BHAG?

Devin: So our BHAG and it's rooted on, I grew up in the hood. I grew up in LA. My mom worked so hard, because I didn't just grow up in the hood. I grew up in nice parts of California because my mom worked her butt off to make sure that I was raised in a nice area. So it was just me and her all my life.

She worked two jobs, and, and she worked really hard to put us in good areas. And so, for me, I think we have we are positioned and postured in a way to be able to make a huge impact in the lives of, this growing this growing middle class that is gonna turn quickly into a lower class because of the gap that's growing between the upper and the middle, and the lower class. And so because of that, our BHAG is to to transform the lives of 10,000 families in America by building or owning a thousand units of affordable housing in 10 different cities around The United States. And so for us, that means we can be able to provide single mothers with three kids. I say, you know, two jobs, three kids.

That's a triple double. Like, these triple double mothers, like, these these mothers that have that work so hard to put their kids in safe places, to be able to have a good area for them to do that in. But then it also does another thing where, like, my wife and I foster children, and we see the direct the direct impact of poverty, of drugs, of, honestly, a completely broken and messed up system. And how can we be how can we directly impact the the world and these mothers and these families and these kids that did nothing to deserve the the the life that they have, as far as the kids are concerned, nothing to deserve that. How can we impact that?

And for us, we feel like that's the foster care system, and that's going to be the affordable housing world. And I think you have to have enough of it or be big enough in it to actually affect it because, like, I can mail my senator and call him all I want. That's not gonna make change. Right? Like, I've got I've gotta have enough I've gotta have enough pool or enough some to to be able to actually make an impact.

And for us, that goal is 10,000 by 2049, and I'll be, I don't know, 50 something by that time. That still leaves me a ton of time to continue to make a large impact in this world. And so what's cool about that b hag is when I got into CG, it was like I'd meet somebody and they're like, oh, I own 20 units. And I'm like, dang. 20 units?

That's crazy. And then, like, I get around another person and they're like, I own a 150.

Steve: And I'm like, a 150? When, like, I

Devin: came in and I'm like, I'd like to own two houses in my life. Right? And then you get around people that are like, I own 2,000, and you're like, what? And then I got into, like, this mastermind called Raise Masters. The lowest people have is, like, 6,500 in there.

And I'm sitting next to somebody, and he's like, I own 10,000 units. So then what happens in that moment is, like, I say this, the dreams to what I believe is possible like, the ceiling to what I can I dream to be possible is raised, but also the floor of my limiting beliefs are raised? And so, like, when I went in and I thought I can have two houses in my life, then I was like, that two houses that two houses is good. But now that I'm like, 10,000 is the number, I'm upset if I have 5,000. You know what I'm saying?

Mhmm. So the because I know it's possible. I've seen plenty of people do it, and so the floor of my limiting beliefs continue to be raised. And so that happens because I'm surrounded by people in CG and in Raising Masters and things like that, and that affects my BHAG and then the impact that I believe is possible in this world. And so that's where it comes from.

Steve: So you're you were saying, a lot of this is driven by your upbringing.

Devin: Yeah.

Steve: So you said a single mother. Mhmm. You have three kids? Or is three like, two siblings?

Devin: I had I had a I have one sister, one sister, but she actually lived in Florida. But what happens, especially in LA and these inner cities, is when there's not a father figure, then, then that's where, like, gangs come in. So my cousin was a blood. He was a gang, gang nurse, so I spent a lot of time around gangs when I lived in LA. I actually man, we're getting deep into my life here.

I actually so two of my best friends at the time when I lived in LA, one is life in prison for murder. The other one's in and out of jail and out of rehab, and that was my reality. And so, in order to avoid child support, I would spend the summers with my dad, and he lived kind of all over the country because his job took him to different places. And so there was one summer where I was with him, and we were living in Raleigh, for that summer. And they were just like, hey, Devin.

You're not going back home. And I was like, well, what do you mean I'm not going back home? And they were like, you're not coming back home. And so, like, I literally still to this day have not seen the stuff that was in my room when I left. I left with a suitcase, and that's all I had.

And so, I never went back home. My mom moved out to North Carolina. I moved out with her. And then, I moved in with her. And then four years later, found out that guy's not actually my dad.

But, anyways, I digress. So but, yeah, man, my mom worked really hard to raise me in good areas. But, nevertheless, like, if you're in certain areas, you're still gonna run-in around the wrong crowds. Mhmm. And so I think because of that upbringing, how hard my mom worked, the life that I lived, and, like, if I did not leave that summer, my life would be changed forever.

I wouldn't I wouldn't be who I am today. And so How old

Steve: were you?

Devin: 15.

Steve: 15.

Devin: So I want I wanna be able to have that impact for other kids.

Steve: How does your BHAG help you accomplish? Great.

Devin: Great. So good question. So if we are able because with affordable housing, you have the ability to be able to vet a lot of the, the tenants that go into it. So if you're able to vet those tenants, then we're able to go, okay. These are people that actually need this good housing.

And one of my big goals is to be able to, have these, like, have these these houses in good areas, which is tough because these good areas don't always want affordable housing. So we actually are partnering with the town of Davidson near Charlotte, North Carolina. And if you know anything about the town of Davidson, the average house is, like, $600,000. Like, it is Davidson is where Steph Curry went, one of the, like, the nicest private schools you could go to in the South. And so they call Davidson the Harvard of the South or something like that.

And so that's that in that area so we're actually working with the town of Davidson to build affordable housing there. And so I wanna be able to bring affordable housing to areas that, like, wouldn't normally have affordable housing. And so for these parents to raise their kids, go to a good school district because, like, see it? I've been shot at. I've almost been kidnapped twice.

Like, I've been in really bad areas in LA, but my mom worked really hard for me to not have to be. And so for us to be able to help those mothers that want to build and put their kids in great areas, it like, that directly impact our BHAG directly impacts that.

Steve: Gotcha. So that's powerful.

Devin: Thanks, man. Thankful.

Steve: So we're talking about 2024.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: Things things gonna be different.

Devin: Yeah. So

Steve: how are things gonna be?

Devin: So, man, what we're seeing in the South, like, what we're seeing in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, what we're seeing in that area is and and and granted, I've been in this for three years, so I haven't seen the talk of, like, all this stuff that's going on, but what I'm seeing now visibly with my own eyes and as I'm trying to, like, move around the the regulations that I hear and and see is, like, wholesaling is becoming one of one of those things where they don't the the realtors, the the board isn't talking about not recognizing it as equitable interest. And so then you hear people that are like, oh, it's illegal. It's this or that. And so for me as an early adopter, I'm like, how do I get around this so that my business doesn't crash and burn? Because all of a sudden, some regulation comes up.

Like, here it is. Boom. Now, like, I have to, on the fly, adopt, a whole new method or a whole new process to try to make money in real estate. And so, what was really helpful was in South Carolina, in South Carolina, we were trying to do some deals in South Carolina, and I came across these guys who are NCG. We're sitting together at a dinner, and they were like, yeah.

They're sending cease and desist letters to wholesalers that are trying to anybody that puts essentially anything on the market or, like, not on the market, but puts anything on, like, investor lift or all of the trying to wholesale a property, they'll send them a cease and desist at, like, 20,000 an assignment. And I was like, sheesh. That's crazy for them to do that. And so I saw two things. I saw opportunity, but I saw, like, writing on the wall.

Right? If they're doing this so strongly in South Carolina, then it's only a matter of time before other states start to adopt it at a higher level or other states start to get stricter on their policies. Because I knew in, like, Oklahoma, you can't, like, really you can't put a house on the market with equitable interest or wholesale there. You have to go through a realtor. And so, like, I knew in these states this was happening, but not as strong as South Carolina.

South Carolina was like, bam. Like, it's done. Mhmm. And so I connected with these guys at CG, and they were working with this this guy named Gary Pickering who is a South Carolina real estate commissioner Mhmm. And a broker and owns one of the largest title companies in South Carolina.

They got, like, 50 attorneys doing closings, and so we close with them. They're telling me about this this installment method and what it was and how it can alleviate, the issue of wholesaling in South Carolina, and then I saw the opportunity. So I saw the writing on the wall, but then I saw the opportunity because I was like, if other people can't wholesale in South Carolina, but this allows you to Mhmm. Then, like, I need to be doing this thing.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I think there's a couple different things. Right? If you look at, the when I started because I started wholesaling back in I I got familiar with wholesaling in o seven. Right?

Devin: Oh, o seven. And I

Steve: was like, this is a fad. Like, this is a fad. Like, forget this thing. Because once the market turns around, like, this thing's gonna be over. Right?

Completely wrong. Could not be more wrong. But when, we started real estate disruptors, so it's 2018. And wholesaling was known, but it wasn't well known. Right?

And so I became this person who was a successful realtor in the Phoenix market to a person that kinda became, like went to the dark side. Right? Because

Devin: He

Steve: I wholesale. Right? Like, this realtor thing's for the birds. I'm gonna wholesale. Right?

And as I was doing this and I was showing more and more people, like, by wholesaling, realtor's like, what is this? Mhmm. What's this wholesaling thing? Right? Now, today, I don't know a lot of realtors.

I don't know what wholesaling is. Yeah. Right? And the ones that do know wholesaling don't have a positive

Devin: Now I

Steve: get it. Perspective on wholesale. No. But here's what's crazy. We have homeowners we talk to now.

It's like, are you gonna wholesale my house?

Devin: Dang. Here. Here. Dang. I

Steve: mean, Phoenix, like, this is a group of capital.

Devin: Never had that. That's crazy.

Steve: We have homeowners. Like, are you going wholesale my house? But, look, the reality is we're at a time now, and I've made this joke many times before. Brent heard me say this. I believe there are more homeowners out there that know the TTP script.

There are wholesalers. I know the TTP scripts. Right?

Devin: That sounds right.

Steve: Right? Because we talked to them. It was like, hey. You know? I know it's called AutoBlue.

Are you looking for a cash? Like, they know this script.

Devin: They do. Right. Yeah. That's true.

Steve: So if this is the reality Mhmm. And realtors don't care for wholesalers, and realtors are pretty pissed off right now because there was a whole deal a couple months a month or two back about the whole commission thing.

Devin: They met like I say, all of them met in in Canada or something and talked about out, like, not Oh, I'm

Steve: not talking about I don't talk about the the whole deal with the the lawsuit.

Devin: Oh, in Tennessee?

Steve: No. I'm saying the lawsuit as far as, you're not paying buyer brokers anymore. Right?

Devin: That's right. The North

Steve: So so realtors are pretty pissed right now. Yep. I think there's gonna be even more focus now, more light on the wholesaling side. So to me, it doesn't really matter what I believe is right. Right?

Because I strongly believe you should be able to wholesale I should be able to wholesale you this monster. He used to use monster drink. I should be able to

Devin: wholesale Manny wants it. I'll give it to him for $20.

Steve: Right. I should be able to wholesale this. Right? Like so how can they regulate this? But regardless of what I believe, if the departments of real estates come along come together and say, we don't like this, it doesn't matter what we believe if this is the direction.

Devin: Yeah. That's exactly right. And and that's the writing on the wall that we see. Mhmm. So, like, Gary being who he is, a real estate commissioner, he talks a lot about that side of it.

He talks a lot about the regulation that's coming because, like, it's very ironic. He literally is the one regulating these wholesalers in South Carolina. Mhmm. And so for him to do that, to see that writing on the wall makes me go, oh, dang. This is legit.

Like, this is not just like a thing. This is pretty legit. And so for for us, I was like, okay. How do we alleviate or get around that or continue to be be be honest because I think wholesaling is also a service to sellers. How do we continue to be a service for these sellers that have motivation, that need help, don't have time to put it on the market with a realtor or do whatever, didn't have access to the cash buyers?

How do we still be a service to them? And so that's when and that's that kind of led me to be look at 2024, how are things gonna change Mhmm. And then what the solution for that is, and that brought about the installment method. So I I hope that answered your question on, like, how is wholesaling changing in 2024? In a couple of ways, I think it's just regulatory.

It's gonna change. But then also, like, as you're saying, sellers are they know the TTP script better than we do. Right. And so then, like, if everybody's offering the same solution, then then what's actually gonna help them? And and, like, what's gonna differentiate me or you from every other person that's using the TTP script or or any of that stuff?

And so for for us, it was I saw this whole the installment method and was like, this is it. And so it's funny because I I got together with those guys and then quickly started doing a lot of them. So I've done a ton of installment methods, and and it's provided us the ability to, like I said, give a solution to a seller by being able to and I don't know how much we you wanna dive into the structure of it. Give the seller money now to be able to help them. And then even, like, along the way, if they need cash to pay for their car or whatever, then, like, we can give them that, and that comes out of the proceeds that they were gonna give.

But because we're protected, because that's what it does. It gives solutions, but also protects us as the as the investor, in in in not having to worry about a wholesaler coming and snake our deal, not having to worry about a seller backing out because I've literally had sellers back out. I wired money into the title company to close, and the seller signed with another wholesaler. Mhmm. And it was just like, like, what?

And so, like, it protects us from that, but then it also gives us a ton of exit strategies. Whether I want to build my portfolio or I wanna maximize our profits while still helping them. It does all of that. So now I kind of assume we're gonna talk about the structure of it. Yeah.

Steve: So, I mean, what is exactly the installment method?

Devin: Okay. So the installment method, one, I think it's another tool belt tool in your tool belt. So you've got, like, wholesaling. You got novations. You got wholetailing.

You got burr. You got all these things. And so this is another tool in the tool belt that I actually think is a good combination of those, but also gives us a ton of opportunity to do other things with it. So what I do is essentially is, Steve and I love this. I'm talking to the sales trainer about some sales stuff.

So I'd go to I'd go to you, Steve, and we do this with foreclosures. I was talking to my person about this today with a foreclosure. I can go to you and go, hey, Steve. I know you want $2.50 for your house. Your house is worth $3.50.

Or let's say you want 200 for your house. Your house is worth 300. You didn't like my offer of a 160,000. I understand. You want 200.

I think now I don't know if I can for sure, but let me go back, talk to my underwriters in the back and and our team and see if, see if I can help give you that 200,000. And you may listen. I you may qualify for this, this program. It's our installment program, and I think I may be able to give you $500 now. Would that be helpful for you?

And so for us, that's kinda how we push it. We pitch it. We talk to them about that. We're like, hey. We can give you money now.

And if they push back and they want more than 500, we literally get to put the terms however we want. I've given somebody 10,000 now because we knew that house was gonna be like a banger. Or we've structured it to where you can go, well, we haven't had to structure it this way. But you can structure it where I go, how about I give you 500 now and 500 a month until we close? That'd be helpful for you as well to pay some of the bills, to get you started on the move, get you this on whatever we talked about in the past was their pain point, we get to directly address their pain point in the way that we structure the deal, whereas a wholesaler wouldn't be able to do that.

Right. They would just say, here's my cash offer. I'll pay you in thirty days, maybe. And so, hopefully and so I'm saying, I will come now with cash. You can have it nonrefundable.

And so what we do then is when we have that closing so we have two closings. There's an initial closing with the title company, and then we pay what's called an equitable deposit. So the biggest issue with wholesaling that I believe is that, in a wholesale contract is not actual equitable interest on a property. It's not seen as equitable interest. States like Georgia, states like Tennessee, South Carolina, for sure, are not acknowledging and recognizing a wholesale contract as actual equitable interest.

And so what we're doing is we're actually putting down an equitable deposit, a nonrefundable equitable deposit to that in to that seller, and then the title company is actually going to record that equitable deposit with the county, and that puts us on the title with the seller. And And then people come in and they're like, why would the seller do that? Why would the seller want you to go on title with them? That doesn't make any sense. That seller, why would they do that?

And so for us, we go, Steve, you're wanting 200,000 for that house, and I think I can get you that. I'm gonna talk to them, see if you apply for this program, and if you do or qualify for this program, and if you do, I think I can get you that. What I then can do is I'm gonna go ahead and give you that $500 now, and and we'll do that at the closing. We'll have a closing in the next depending on how fast our title company can clear title. We'll have a and then for us to do our due diligence, we'll have our closing in the next three to five days.

I'll be able to pay that 500 then, and then I'll be able I'll go on the title with you. What that's gonna do is that's going to allow me to be able to go and get the financing that I need, either from our lender or to be able to go and put that on the market to get you access to millions of millions of buyers to be able to get you that number without having to worry about the hassle of filling all that paperwork, and and dealing with a realtor. We take care of that for you. The great thing, Steve, you remain on the title, so you're fully protected in this in this as well. So you don't have to worry about being at any risk for this.

And then what we'll do is we'll go ahead and make payments to you for the next two months at $500 or, heck, you could pay for their mortgage if you want. Like, we'll pay your mortgage for you for the next until we close on the property, and when we get you that final 200,000. That sound like is that, like, something you'd be interested in? And so then that's how we pitch that to them. And so then it's like, well, of course, they want to be like, they have no problem with that because they stay on it with us.

They're fully protected. Mhmm. And we are fully protected because, like, it's better than a memorandum. We don't have to file a memorandum. We don't have to file a notice of interest.

It's better than that because we've seen people try to still sell it over a memorandum and been successful. So, like, I mean, we've seen that happen. So it's better than that because they can't take out debt. They can't sell they can't do anything without us signing off on it. And so it's really helpful.

Steve: Yeah. We had a deal right now close. I think, it was the eighteenth, so the Monday of Thanksgiving. Yeah. Right?

We had someone that, they recorded over our memorandum. Dang. Right? So which doesn't happen in Arizona. Right?

Like, that's cloud of title in Arizona at least. And so we're suing them for title insurance Yeah. Claim here. So

Devin: But that's a pain.

Steve: It is. But, I mean, at this point, like, there's no risk if we we're gonna get the revenue.

Devin: It's true.

Steve: And we don't have any, risk in it. But that happens. Right? Like, we don't control the transactions. Like, for me, you know, I you guys that are watching, we talk about uncertainty talks.

We talk about the whale club. We talk about, having certainty. For me, the biggest win here is that once we agree on terms with the homeowner Mhmm. We control the transaction because we are the owner

Devin: That's right.

Steve: Of the property. Right? So I can sign the listing agreement. Mhmm. Right?

Which in most states, you still can today with equitable interest. Right? Like, that that appears to be an unresolved legal discussion. Right? Some states say as you can, some states say you can't.

Devin: That's not state by state.

Steve: State by state. Right? It's like whatever. Right? Mhmm.

But if I own the property, that issue is resolved. Mhmm. So now I can sign a listing agreement. I can sign any purchase contracts that come through. And the biggest thing for me is that when the buyer comes through with the second leg, I don't have to worry about the seller getting involved.

Right?

Devin: Nope.

Steve: I don't have to worry about the seller saying, hey. How come what's this $40,000 charge? Yeah. Or what is this $115,000 difference?

Devin: That's exactly right. I don't

Steve: have to worry about any of that stuff. You don't

Devin: even have to worry about the the buyer being like, I don't like that you're making this wholesale fee

Steve: Yeah.

Devin: Because we're selling it to them as an owner of the property. It's not We are

Steve: the owner. We're not a middleman. We are the actual owner. So in many ways, we're flipping we're we're operating like a flipper with short term financing

Devin: Yep.

Steve: From the seller. So, in Arizona, we can close as fast as three days here. Right? Like, I've actually had title clear in less than twenty four hours here.

Devin: Nice.

Steve: Right? Like, we had a situation with an HOA foreclosure. Like, hey. Our foreclosure is tomorrow. Can you close on it?

I was like, let me make a call.

Devin: Yeah. And we got it cleared Nice.

Steve: That day. Right? So in Arizona, I could take title. Let's just say three days. Three to seven days.

Once I take title, I can mark on MLS. I don't have to worry about any issues with, again, other people poaching our deal, sellers backing out, sellers disappearing. Right? We had a seller go to prison. Right?

That was really made really difficult.

Devin: Installment on somebody in prison too. Yeah. And the thing is is, like, then we never had to worry about after that initial one, them having to come back ever again. It didn't matter matter.

Steve: We've done, innovations with power of attorneys, where the power of attorney in this instance was out of state. And so, like, every time we did it every time we had a conversation, we had to talk to the the to the seller and then his daughter. Like, every it was always this double conversation. Like

Devin: That's a pain.

Steve: We're getting past all of that.

Devin: Yeah.

Steve: Right? So, like I said, I think this is gonna resolve a lot of issues. Yeah.

Devin: But not

Steve: all the issues. Mhmm. But a lot of the issues. Right? So the right regulatory component

Devin: Most.

Steve: The, the control Mhmm. Situation. So why should someone not then do installment method?

Devin: Okay. So it it depends. Right? So it does require the capital to be able to give that initial installment, and you have an initial in closing. So I would say the biggest difference is on why you shouldn't do an installment because there's still some that we're like, nope.

This probably isn't an installment for. It's because, like, if I'm going to put myself on that title, there's risk. Right? There's risk on being like, this has to sell. So for us, we know that unless it's gonna make us $30,000 on this deal, we're not gonna do an installment on it because we have to come out of pocket for the initial closing.

We're paying them monthly. Out of pocket now, but then it's credited back to us at the closing, so not out of pocket ultimately. But there's still capital that has to take place there. And so we know that it has to be a minimum 30,000 for us. So that's one of them.

But also too, it depends on what the purpose of this is. We deal with foreclosures, and we are doing in foreclosures, we have thirty days less. Sometimes, like sometimes, it just fluctuates. And we know that if that's our time frame and we wanna put it on the MLS, we know that an FHA buyer is gonna need a ninety day seasoning period. So then I'm like, okay.

Well, then maybe it would be better to do innovation in this situation. But still, again, like, power of attorney gets, you don't really have you're not protected on the title. So then you either just have to say, I don't really wanna do it with a, with an FHA buyer, or you kinda switch the the way that you do it. So that that's probably the only reason I would see not to do it unless you see something different because, like, we've transitioned to doing it for, like, all of our deals Yeah. Because it just makes sense.

Steve: Well, I mean, I foresee us using it, for for majority of our deals. And I think the biggest reason why, again, is we talk about certainty, right,

Devin: with the

Steve: Royal Club. It's that it's crazy to me. I will sit down with my account my accountant, and we we do thirty day projections. Right? So done the p and l.

Right? P and l is a thirty day look back.

Devin: Yep. We're

Steve: doing thirty day projections. Right? So we wanna know based off our history and based off what we have on the board Mhmm. What's our cash position gonna be in thirty days?

Devin: Smart.

Steve: In doing a cash projection, it's in thirty days, We always knock off 20%. Yep.

Devin: Because deals fall through.

Steve: Post deals fall through. Either the buyer doesn't perform. Mhmm. Right? The, hard money doesn't happen, or they try to wholesale to someone else without telling you, even though it's in a contract that they can't Mhmm.

Try to wholesale somebody else. And now that they've done it, the the fourteen days to clear solar has to get reset.

Devin: That's right.

Steve: So, like, there's all these things that happen. Right? So we can't we cannot rely on 100% of the revenue that's on the board

Devin: That's right.

Steve: On closing. Having this process in place, we can say with a lot greater certainty

Devin: There's no doubt.

Steve: We own the property now. These are all going to close. We don't have to worry about oh, the other thing I did say, like, seller's backing out. Right?

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: So, like, we don't have to worry about their daughter coming in. We have more than once adult protective services called on us.

Devin: Right.

Steve: Right? And having adult protective services called on us, now we gotta deal with this. Like, okay. Do we wanna fight this

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: Or not? Right? Like, hey. And the first thing, did we record this call?

Devin: Right?

Steve: I was like, why the hell did you not record this call? Because that's the first question I had, when we have, adult protective services, called in. So do we wanna fight this? Right? With all this, goes away.

We're the owner. If it's not a 100%, I the only instances where it wouldn't close is if the buyer can't get their loan done at that or the buyer gets their loan done. That's it. Right? Because we're talking about marketing MLS.

Yep. One of the things we see a lot in collective deals.

Devin: But really quickly too, though, if that happens, then, like, with this installment installment method, I can then go to the seller and go, hey. Look. Listen. This was the situation. We'd love to extend it another thirty days.

I'll pay you $2,000 if you're willing to extend it another thirty days. There you go. Like, they're like, fantastic. Awesome. But if you're wholesaling, you're just like, hey.

It didn't close in thirty days. I'm sorry. I gotta terminate. You know? But now we have that opportunity to pay them more money, but then it's credited back to us at closing.

So it's like, we're not even paying them. Right. We're just coming out of the profits that they're gonna make. They're just essentially getting, like, an advance on it. And but, like, we are able to pay them that money now to compensate for, like, our buyer falling through and us needing to extend it longer.

You have that option.

Steve: Right. And, again, like, we can pay more.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: So I look at this, a lot of the ways that we were doing innovations. Yep. We can put this in the same place where we can pay more.

Devin: That's exactly right.

Steve: Right? And so if you're wholesaling, this could be a challenge if you're going against us because we can actually pay more.

Devin: We could pay more every a 100% of the time. Yeah. There's no doubt. I literally was talking to our, our acquisition person this morning, and she's like, yo. I got this banger in Raleigh.

It's worth $6.50. The lady owes $3.50 on it. And I was like, let's lock it in on an installment. Because, like, she wants to stay in the house for a little bit longer. She's in a foreclosure situation, and we're like, okay.

Let's get it under contract. So then once we're in an installment and we're on the the the deed with her, then, like, I can go to the foreclosure attorney and show them a, I can or I can go to the lender and show them, hey. We have a purchase contract with them. We wanna try to we wanna try to, to extend this, you know, auction another three months, which gives us plenty of time to do whatever we need for it. But then if they say no, I also can pay off those arrears and not have to worry about paying off the arrears, and then they leave us and never talk to us again because I'm on the deed.

And so this just opens up so much opportunity for those big deals so that if we want to because this is a house worth $6.50. We're getting it, pretty dang low. We have another one in Charlotte. It's worth, like, $9.50, and we're getting it at, like, $4.16, and they're making a couple 100 k off of it still. But we're locking it in because, like, I don't want them to go and sell it to somebody else.

Yeah. We still wanna be, like They're locking the games. Yeah. Exactly. So it's huge for that.

Steve: There is a I'm trying to think of some other instances. Like, we used to do, partnerships or not used to. We've considered doing partnerships. We don't want ever. And the biggest reason why I didn't wanna do it, it says, alright, David.

I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna come in. I'm gonna fix your house. I'm gonna split the profit.

Devin: I'm doing that currently. Right. Got one.

Steve: But there's always the risk of Devon's like, hey. I really like this house now that we've remodeled

Devin: it. Appreciate

Steve: it. Thank you. Right? I I don't wanna sell it anymore. And, like, I just spent

Devin: That's right.

Steve: $4,550,000 dollars Mhmm. In your house. And the only way I could protect myself in that instance prior was a lien. Mhmm. Like, hey.

I need you to agree to those lien before I put money into it, which protects me. Mhmm. But I'm still out that money.

Devin: Yeah. And it protects you the amount of the lien, like, amount that you put into the house.

Steve: That's it. Yeah. That's the amount of protection.

Devin: Yeah.

Steve: But here now, I was like, no. I'm the owner. I could put money into this.

Devin: Yep.

Steve: And you can live in the house. Right?

Devin: Mhmm. I

Steve: wouldn't generally do this, but I know you've done it.

Devin: I have.

Steve: Right? Where you remodel the house while they live in it.

Devin: Mhmm. And then we sold it, and then, like, we split profits $70.30. $700,000 house. Their mortgage was 200,000. They owed 100,000 in judgments, like, 140,000 in judgments.

And so we agreed on a price of, I think it was $4.90. So they're gonna come up. They're gonna get a lot of money on that. And then I was like, the way that we can get you the most and I said this. The way that we can get you the most amount for your property is if we sell it on the MLS.

But your house is in fantastic condition, but it's a little bit dated. So what if we were to over the next couple of months, they wanna stay in, spend time with their family. What if we were to go ahead and renovate the kitchen for you and then renovate the bathrooms? You'd be okay with that? And they're like, yeah.

And I was like, fantastic. And so, we split the profits $70.30. We made 200. They made yeah, they made, like, a 180 or something. Like, that's awesome.

Right. And so, and they made a 180 because of their, their difference. So we are we are at, like, 500 was the amount that they wanted, and then we split the the two no. We didn't even split the two fifty. Anyways, so we agreed on the 70 to 30.

Mhmm. And then we, and then we got because we said 70 because we're helping them to take care of the foreclosure, taking care of the the not having to worry about all of that stuff while they while we renovated it. We renovated it, and then we took care of the realtor and all that. So Mhmm. Kinda wild.

Steve: Yeah. So one of the questions that we've heard in the recent past is, like, why would a seller agree to this?

Devin: Yeah. Well, really, when it comes to this, we are offering them the service of so I deal with foreclosures.

Steve: And a lot of people

Devin: in foreclosure, they have very pressing money issues. And so for me to be able to come in and give them money now is a huge plus to them. And for me to go, you wanted I could offer you cash a 160, but you wanted 200. For me to give you that is a huge service. We had a a house in South Carolina, and the lady's like, hey.

We're really struggling right now. Can you help us? So I VIN mode her, like, $1,500. Mhmm. You know, like, because I knew that that was gonna like, I could do that.

I own the house. She's not gonna run with that, and then I just sent I just sent a copy of the receipt to my title company, and then they took that out of closing. So, like, for us, it's an it's the ability to be able to help people because, like, what if their car breaks down and they need money for their car? We're in a position to be able to help them for that. Can you imagine the review you would get if it wasn't just us taking care of the situation with their house, getting them more than anybody else offered them, but also taking care of their car on the way, like, along the way.

And so for us to be able to serve them in the time of need that they're at because like, let's face it. People aren't really coming to us unless they have motivation. Mhmm. And for us to meet them where they are in their pain points, in their motivation, typically, it's financially, but it also is through services that you can offer them because you're on the title or you're on the deed with them and because, ultimately, you'll be credited back that money at closing Right. It allows you to do a lot more for them.

Steve: You can release a lot more funds to them. You you can advance the funds Yep. And still be fully protected.

Devin: Which no wholesaler can do. Yeah. A wholesaler would be kind of dumb to be like, here's 5 thou here's a couple thousand dollars nonrefundable. Yeah. Like, have a great day.

Steve: Can't say that we haven't done it. I don't think we have done it, but I can't say we haven't done it either.

Devin: But I'm sure you did because you wanted it.

Steve: Actually, I took that back. So we had a situation where, you know, unfortunately, we had to sue this guy for a specific format.

Devin: Right.

Steve: Right? I didn't want to, but, like, we literally bought him a mobile home.

Devin: Shoot.

Steve: Right? He's like, hey. Like, I I need this. Like, okay. We bought the mobile home for him.

And, like, dummies. Right? This is a wholesale deal. So we completely shot ourselves in the foot here, But we own it. And, again, like, for everyone who's watching, like, that was stupid.

Devin: That that that sounds

Steve: kinda stupid.

Devin: Hey, man. I'm really down on my luck. The car broke down on the way here, Steve. I really need some help.

Steve: Yeah. But now right, you know, I'm the owner. I'm protected. I don't have to worry Mhmm. About this.

Right? So I can help them find, their other property, their

Devin: next property. You can help them. So we've done that. We pay security deposits because they need the money now to do the security deposit, but, typically, they're not gonna get that money until it closes. And so I can pay their security deposit and their first month of rent for them, and it's essentially just an advance on that for them.

And so we have so much opportunity because if we wanna get them out the house,

Steve: then you're like, get out the house. Go figure it out. Like, go out there

Devin: and be somebody. You know? And so, like, now we're in a position where, like, hey. Get out the house, but let's help. We will pay for the security deposit in the first month of rent in your new apartment that you're leaving to.

You can do that. That's that's specifically catered to the seller. Like, that is directly helping them, so it's really cool.

Steve: Yeah. So looking at at your business today. Right? Mhmm. You went through this skyrocket Mhmm.

Launch into real estate.

Devin: Phew.

Steve: And because it was a really big rise, the crash was a little bit more spectacular.

Devin: I mean, crashed and burned, bro. Like, I would I remember sitting into my office by myself, nobody in there, and just being like, oh my gosh. So, yes, very spectacular. Alright.

Steve: So a spectacular crash. And now you turn it back around. So what does your business look like now versus when you started?

Devin: Fantastic. So we use the installment method a ton. Now I own a real estate fund now. So one of the things with foreclosures is they require capital. And so I got to the point where I was working with a lot of private lenders, but golly, private lenders.

It's just it's so inconvenient. Then you gotta deal with them and you're like, hey. Wire it in. I need you to wire it in today. It's gotta wire in today, and they're like, oh, it hasn't hit my account yet.

And I'm like, look at you. Come on. And then you gotta send them promissory notes, and then they send payoffs. Like, they have to put together a payoff and send a payoff, and then you gotta wire it back. And then I'm telling them I'll give them 12% a year when really I'm only giving them not that much because it's like, hey.

I got a deal for you once every three months. You know? And so for me, I started, we started a fund, and so now it's really cool. My, wholesaling company wholesales to my, wholesales every deal to my fund. Mhmm.

So now I make money on the wholesale for my for my company through the installment method. So I have a company called Pure Flair Homes. They they do all of the Pure Flair Homes does all of the installment contracts, and they're on all the installment contracts, and they also will wholesale it to us. Actually, yes. They'll wholesale it to us, and then we do the closing.

At the at that closing, we'll pay Pure Flair Homes the assignment fee at the initial closing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Devin: So my fund buys all the houses. And so I we've got we've transitioned because of the fund into flipping a lot. Mhmm. So we do flips with the installment method. That's pretty awesome because then we don't have to take out a huge loan to buy the house.

We literally will flip so we'll go on we'll do our closing, and then we'll just jump in and start flipping the house because it's vacant. And so we didn't have actually even have to buy the house before we started flipping. Now you have to have either a private lender to be able to help you get that money. We've got our fund. So we do that, we do that with that.

So then we flip the house, and then we put it on the MLS. But then also this is really cool because we haven't even talked about the exit strategies. We also refinance a lot out of this. Mhmm. So with the installment method, you can actually and I'll do this.

I will wholesale a house to my fund, and my fund will refinance it. So or not my fund will refinance it. My fund will have a lender refinance it for us. So for instance, if you wanna look it up, 4814817 Something, 48124817 Wood Woodstone Drive in Charlotte, North Carolina. The house appraised at $230,000.

PureFlare Homes got it under contract at a $136,000. And then, Capital got started working on our rate and term refinance. So this is not a cash out. You typically have to wait, like, ninety days for a cash out refinance. This is a rate and term refinance off of the purchase price.

The purchase price we have is 155,000. So your Flint home's got it at 136, assigned it to Capital at 155. Capital got a rate and term refinance based off of a $230,000 appraisal at at a 155,000. Mhmm. So without coming out of pocket to buy this house, all I did was pay for pay for an assignment fee, but out of the rate and term refi.

But I, paid for a closing off of the initial closing because once you're on the title for twenty four hours, you can rate and term refinance. Paid for initial closing, paid for the new loan, and now I own a house because I just refinanced it. Didn't have to buy it. Didn't have to do the bridge loan. Didn't have to do any of that stuff.

It's pretty crazy.

Steve: Yeah. So you're not only not out of pocket, you're also paying yourself a fee.

Devin: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. With a refinance. Didn't have to come out of pocket at all.

Yeah. Like or the rate and term, you don't have to put money down.

Steve: Right.

Devin: It's crazy.

Steve: Yeah. So you're getting paid to build a portfolio. That's exactly right.

Devin: Yeah. It's wild.

Steve: That's pretty awesome.

Devin: It's cool. So we do that. We do, like we do at least one of those a month, and then we do, we do a lot of the flips out of the installment, or we'll just purchase from ourselves. So we have about 20 projects right now all within the last couple of like, the last three months. So that's where we are.

Steve: Yeah. Haven't haven't had a chance to talk about kinda like so I did this right. We bought a property this way. And it was a situation where I talked to the owner, figured out what they needed now and what they needed later. Right?

Because, like, hey. What do you need? Like, I'm not a cash buyer. Right. What what do you need today?

What do you need later? And we agreed. Right? It was 10,000 right now. Right?

And then the rest in six months.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: And he carried the note and so on. And I did this. It's like, man, that's pretty cool. And that is the stuff I learned from EddySpeed. Right?

Like, you know, the pitch. Right? You know, Ashley Furniture pitch. Mhmm. And then, you know, what do you need now?

Like, what do you need to cash needs? And then, everything else is like, okay. But I need to get paid there. I said, okay. That's no problem.

Right? I want you to carry forever, but you don't wanna carry forever. That's fine. Mhmm. We we can have a balloon payment in six months.

I was like, man, that's pretty cool that we're able to do this. Right? Like, gotta tell everybody. Wait a minute. I saw if I were to make this something, it'd be like an installment sale.

Devin Robinson just posted something on Facebook about this. I did.

Devin: And then I you called me, and I was like, Steve Trang?

Steve: Yeah. Alright. Yeah. So I was like, Devin just so it's a it's a long drive. Right?

Because this is out in Avondale. It's a long drive back. So I was like, let me watch this Facebook Live that Devin recorded a couple weeks back. And I watched this, like, okay. That's the same thing.

Let me call Devin.

Devin: Nice. I talked to you,

Steve: and you you walked me through the whole thing. I was like, okay. I mean, that's what I just did. Nice. So this installment method thing, like, what's it about?

Like, oh, talk to Gary.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: Like, Gary? Yeah. Gary Pickering. He's a commissioner. I was like, oh.

Like, why like, you know, like, why are you saying oh. It's like, well, he messaged me

Devin: Yeah. I remember.

Steve: On Instagram, and, I completely ignored him because he says that I am a commissioner in South Carolina real estate commissioner in South Carolina, and I wanna talk to you. I was like No. Thanks. No.

Devin: I'm not the one.

Steve: Out of self preservation, if you're part of, like, the regulatory side, I want nothing to do with this. Right? And, but you said, yeah. Gary's when I came with it. Oh, well, let me talk to Gary.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: And, yeah, I mean, it just makes so much sense because we can help the homeowner

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: And we can still do well as real estate investors. We're truly, like, everyone wins along the way. That's right.

Devin: Yeah. And that's and that's the biggest part, man. And so it was so cool, just to be able to to see you do it, which is awesome. But then also now to be able to have, like, the backing and the help and the streamlined process to be able to do it at scale has just been really cool too.

Steve: Well and, you know, what's huge having Gary, in involved in this not involved, leading this effort Mhmm. Is that, whatever happens in the next twenty twelve, twenty four months, right, this installment method will work because he is involved He knows. In talking to all the other real estate companies.

Devin: He'll literally know before it happens.

Steve: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So being part of this, you can kinda see this evolution, in twenty twenty twenty four, 2025, wherever whichever direction this goes, we've got the inside track.

Devin: What and what's what's cool too is, like, we were talking, I mean, talking I was talking to him earlier today, and he literally was like, I was talking to a commissioner in some state, and they were talking about how they want to completely ban a a popular version of real estate investing. And it was just like like, dang. Like, he knows that ahead of time. He's able to get in front of it, and he's also able to help us to understand, like, how do we get around that?

Steve: Well, he's helping us navigate. Yep. Right? So absolutely. So I think that's that's awesome.

If someone wanted to find out about installment method, like, what what is the best way for them to do that?

Devin: Yeah. So, one, they could reach out. I am so happy to explain this to anybody and everybody. Mhmm. We also do, like, a lot of times, we'll do trainings on these.

So I think the wholesale2024.com, you can register for those trainings. But then also installmentmethod.com, I believe, is the website, for us to be able to actually have, like, what it is and some more information on it there.

Steve: Yeah. So if you guys wanna check out the next call, wholesale2024.com, or you can find out more at installmentmethod.com.

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: So you had this epiphany

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: With your wedding photography business. You realized this is not the life I I I had designed. Mhmm. What does your life look like now?

Devin: Great question, Ann. So I've got the nonnegotiables. Right? So the nonnegotiables, time with my family. Very important for me.

Spending time with my kids, picking them up every day, having the weekends off to enjoy my time with them. And they're they're six, five, and two, and we spend a lot of time with their biological family, and so that's been great. So spend a lot of time with our family. My time, actually, most now is spent because I spent, like I said, six months plus building out SOPs. So I'm thankful that it's been able to that company is like the wholesale side of our company is fairly self sufficient.

Doesn't require a whole lot of me. I spend most of my time raising capital because it's freaking awesome. I really do enjoy doing that. So I raise a lot of capital for our fund and then plan and strategize towards impact and how we can kind of grow the company to create more and more impact. And so that's what I do a lot now.

So that's how my life is structured. Mhmm. But then, also, honestly, I think that this is such a like, this is such a problem solving tool in the tool belt that I think, like, everybody needs to know about it. So I spent a lot of time while talking about this either on the trainings or in our Facebook group or things like that. Yeah.

Steve: Like I said, I found out about it on your Facebook live.

Devin: Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic.

Steve: Yeah. So what is your why?

Devin: And I think I've talked about that. The my why is directly correlated with my BHAG, right, is to make a huge impact in affordable housing and in, and in foster care. Now to dive a little bit deeper, that also goes down to the why is all started with how strong my mom's my hero. Mom's my hero. Wouldn't be here without her.

Gave up a ton of opportunity in her life for me to be able to succeed. My mom is my hero. And for a bunch of kids in general, especially inner city kids, their moms are their heroes. And you hear it all the time with these athletes. Their mom is a hero.

They came out of the they came out of the mud with her. Like, that's just kinda how it is. And so my mom, but also with, like, our family, our family and and foster care and being able to affect and transform the lives of the like, Steve, when I tell you I have seen and read and heard and ex and, like, the most horrific things that you can imagine happen to children changes everything for you. Mhmm. And so a lot of that is is my why.

Yeah. So yeah.

Steve: Well, it's powerful. Right? You're you're crystal clear on it. Yeah. What is your biggest struggle today?

Devin: Oh, great question. I am jack of all trades, master of none. But, Steve, the rest of that quote that nobody says is, but still always better than a master of one. So, I am thankful. I think the Lord has gifted me, and I please, like, trying to say this in, like, the most humble like, if you know me, I don't brag about myself like this.

I think he's gifted me with an an unusually high capacity, to do a lot of things at a fairly high level, and I'm really thankful for that. So my biggest issue has been being a mile wide and an inch deep. And so what I would prefer and what I'm actually now aligning myself to is now the vision of what I want my life to be and what puts me in that direction. Mhmm. And so I actually oh, what?

Nah. I actually have, like, recently sold a company to just I didn't even sell it. I just gave it away to the the the the guys that helped me run it. I'm like, you guys can have this. And they're like, why?

And I was like, because I have this goal, and I have this vision, and this just doesn't fit in that. And so for me, the the biggest what was the question?

Steve: Biggest struggle.

Devin: Yeah. The biggest struggle in my life has been direction. Keeping direction and staying focused. And I I could still say that is probably still my biggest struggle in my life. Mhmm.

I'm getting the direction part, and now it's just focused. So that's the biggest struggle in my life.

Steve: It's a challenge being good at a lot of things. And it sounds ridiculous. Right? It sounds ridiculous. But

Devin: It it is very hard. Yeah. Yeah. My wife hates it. Like, she absolutely hates that about me.

Yeah. So yeah. I played pickleball the other day for the first time, dominated.

Steve: Mhmm.

Devin: And so, like, it's just, like, it sucks. It's hard. Like, it's hard. Like, because then I felt bad because, like, I'm like, I played with these guys that weren't very good because I was like, I've never played before. I dominated.

And so, like, you're right. My wife and my wife hates that, that I'll just pick something up and

Steve: Well, we played basketball yesterday morning. Yeah. Right. And you're guarding Xavier.

Devin: Yeah. I

Steve: was like, okay. Well, good luck. Yeah. Good luck there. You held your own.

Devin: Hey. And I've never played organized basketball in my life. Yeah. I played football and I played baseball. Never basketball.

Steve: Well, but corner requires a little bit of skill.

Devin: That's right. Yeah. That's right.

Steve: So then how do you measure success?

Devin: Oh, man. Great question. So for me, measuring success is not a metric that's gauged by anybody else. I don't let anybody else tell me, like, what success is and isn't in my life. For me, it's about the value, like, the direct value that I bring to the people around me.

So what would be success to me is the the direct impact of the people closest to me, the impact on their life, and the quality of life that they have. And, like, if I can measurably say the impact has been raised, or sorry, the quality of life, their life has been raised because of my including in their life, then, like, that's success to me.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. And then superpower. I mean, you said you have a lot of powers. So what is

Devin: your superpower? So I thought about this. You're gonna hate this answer, man.

Steve: Go ahead. I'm excited.

Devin: My journey. Mhmm. I think my journey is my superpower, man. I have so much trauma, bro. Like, trauma out the the freaking wazoo because of father, because of the hood, because of, like, just not feeling certain ways about like, so much trauma that I think that that has become my superpower.

Mhmm. I also think that I have a short sleep syndrome, which is a DNA mutation that only happens in, like, less than one percent of the world. Mhmm. But I think it's in, like, thirty percent of Fortune five CEOs Mhmm. Where you can sleep and operate off of, like, less than five hours of sleep.

Mhmm. And I do. Yeah. Not because, like, I'm I'm also a firm believer in eight hours. Get your eight hours.

I just don't need it.

Steve: Yeah.

Devin: So, I think that also is probably one of

Steve: them. You know, that's what Pace said.

Devin: Really?

Steve: His superpower. He doesn't need sleep.

Devin: Awesome. Alright.

Steve: You get a lot done.

Devin: You can.

Steve: If you don't need sleep. You thought I was gonna hit your journey's answer?

Devin: No. Because it's not like a my superpower is I'm a a whiz with Excel. Like, you know, like,

Steve: I don't know early adopting. I don't know.

Devin: I think it's my journey, man. Like, it's not a it's not a one specific superpower, but it's made me everything I am. Mhmm. And, and yeah. I mean, I I think, you

Steve: know, we had Brad Chandler on here a couple weeks ago. He talks about how he does 253 deals. He did 253 deals last year working an hour a week. Damn. Respect.

And so but he talks about, like, how important or not how important, how your upbringing directly impacts everything you do. Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, it makes total sense.

Devin: I agree. The this is a really funny story. I worked for a company called Boosterthon, which is an elementary school fundraiser. So I would go into, like, right out of college, making 15,000 a year out of college. And I would go into the classroom every single day from kindergarten to fifth graders and and try to get them excited to raise money for their school fundraiser.

And I I can tell you that prepared me for the things that I do today,

Steve: being able to sit

Devin: in front of people and for, like yo. Kindergartners suck, man.

Steve: They're like, you're an idiot.

Devin: Like, they say the worst things about you. And so I can sit in front of people and not be phased because I had to do this in front of kindergartners every single day. You know? So it's really interesting your journey and what it does.

Steve: What would your wife say to your superpower?

Devin: Okay. Probably being good at everything. That's probably the superpower she would probably say. I I don't know. Well, I don't know.

That's a hard question. I probably probably be with something like that that I could just pick up anything and become pretty good at it.

Steve: What's What's your biggest regret?

Devin: Oh, so this is also part of, like, the superpower. It's very interesting. Just about a a lot of things that I've done in my life, I have been the worst player on the best teams. So I was a semi pro paintballer. It's very interesting, like, x ball.

I went I was gonna play football in college, got hurt, played baseball at a top 25 d one college. Like like but then I was, like, the worst player on the top 21 d one college. And, but going into college, this is my regret. Going into college, I played video games professionally. And

Steve: How old or when was this?

Devin: 2006.

Steve: 2006?

Devin: So 2005, 2006, 2007, I played a video game called Counter Strike.

Steve: Mhmm.

Devin: And I played on the mouse and keys professionally. And, like, back then, though, it wasn't what it is now. Like, when you won a tournament, you got a new graphics card. Like, you got a new this. Your team split a thousand dollars.

Right? Like or, like but if you were on, like, the main stage, then, like, you split, like, a $100. But it's nothing what it is now. And so I got to college, and I was playing baseball in college, and my team was like, hey. We got practice today.

And I'm like, I got baseball practice. Like, what am I gonna do? And so, the biggest regret of my life is that I chose to quit the team and continue to play baseball. And this is the year, like, Twitch came out, which, like, my personality, I feel like I would have done pretty well on Twitch. And so, this is the year Twitch came out.

And so I just and what I know now, and we've seen it. We've seen stadiums fill, like, just absolutely fill up with the hundreds and thousands of people to watch people play video games, and they win five some 16 year old won $5,000,000 in a Fortnite tournament. It's crazy.

Steve: So and here's the thing. And there's no judgment on you.

Devin: There is.

Steve: No judgment. No.

Devin: Look. We're there. I am who I am.

Steve: From what I've observed on the outside looking in, you don't have to be that great at gaming. No? You just have to be great at the camera. Personality. Gaming.

Devin: Oh, yeah. That's right.

Steve: Right? So if you can talk to the camera while being significantly above average, b plus, a minus.

Devin: Steve, I still stream on Twitch sometimes

Steve: Okay. Which is really interesting. I'm not very popular

Devin: at all.

Steve: But I'm just saying, like, you don't have to be, like, you don't have to be a 100%.

Devin: Right.

Steve: I think if you're, like, b plus, a minus gamer, right, where you win consistently, but you're not elite elite Mhmm. But you got a personality Mhmm. That's it. You'll do really well.

Devin: Oh,

Steve: yeah. And I think the personality

Devin: I would have

Steve: done I'm probably with you on that biggest regret.

Devin: That is the biggest regret of my life.

Steve: But it wouldn't help you with your BHAG.

Devin: It would not have. That's true. My BHAG would not have been that.

Steve: But I'm

Devin: still the same person, so maybe it would have changed. I actually still Steve, I can guarantee you. In the next, like, five to six years, I'll own a e esports team.

Steve: Yeah. Yep. We'll see it. We'll see it.

Devin: I've already bought the I've already bought the URL.

Steve: Alright. So you already bought the URL. What is it?

Devin: It's it's PureFlare g g. So, like, PureFlare homes is what we have. Flare is there's there's wording around Flare, the word Flare that I like. And so pureflaregg, PureFlare gaming. So pureflair.gg is the website.

So I So

Steve: we're gonna get the script disruptorsgg.

Devin: Yeah. I know. That's right.

Steve: And and and We'll start. For you. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get it.

So,

Devin: yeah, I've already got the Instagram handle. I've already got the the the the URL and everything for you.

Steve: Alright. Alright. How did you learn your greatest lesson?

Devin: By failing. I don't know what the greatest lesson is, but I've learned it by failing. Yeah. There's no doubt. Whatever the lesson is, it's it's been learned by failing.

Steve: You don't have any particular lesson that, like, is etched into your memories more than than another?

Devin: Bro, I fell so often that, like, I don't know. I can't think of one. I'm a be honest with you. But, like, I just think that also failing often and the ability to, like, be an an like, what's the word? It's, fearlessly authentic Mhmm.

Is is probably, one of the reasons why, like, I'm okay with failing because my identity is not wrapped in succeeding in that one specific thing. I am who I am, and I'll always be who I am, and I just don't care. I'm the same person right now you'll see on this podcast. I'm the same person in front of you any other time. Fearlessly authentic, but, also, I will fail fast, real fast.

And that I think, like, that's, like, my biggest lesson is, like, I'll fail fast, but I know that that's gonna get me where I wanna be faster because then I learned that didn't work, and then I go and do something else.

Steve: And I can speak for that. Right? Because I've seen you in all three three different phases of your real estate journey.

Devin: Yes.

Steve: Right? Yes. Peak, crash, and here. Yep. So I got to see all three all three different phases.

Devin: Yeah. That's true.

Steve: Absolutely true.

Devin: Yeah. I fail fast often.

Steve: What book have you gifted more than any other?

Devin: Oh, gifted. A couple books. So one, Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper. Really good book, Christian book, on Christianity as a whole and who Jesus is. The second one would probably be, I really like oh, probably Good to Great.

I think that's a really good book, Tim Collins. Yeah. Nope. How to Win Friends and Influence People. That's probably the book I've gifted the most.

Yeah. Mhmm.

Steve: Well, I see. You're probably, you know, pretty decent decent at that part. 20 Friends and Influence in People.

Devin: Oh, fantastic. Thanks, man. Appreciate you.

Steve: So, I want to think about some last thoughts

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: That you'd like to leave the listeners with. I wanna make a couple of quick announcements. So, guys, we do have our virtual event coming up. It's one day all day virtually, so we recognize that times are tougher at this exact moment. So if you guys are looking to get better at sales, this is the only time we've ever offered virtual sales training.

So, December 8, go to disruptors.com/virtual. If you wanna check it out, we have the great fortune of working with the best, in the country. So, you know, we got to hear yesterday, Pace and Jamil is like, you know

Devin: Yeah.

Steve: Going better. Had the opportunity to work with you and your organization. So, guys, if if you're looking to get better at sales, disruptors.com/virtual, we're doing this, online at at a price that we don't normally do it at. If you guys are interested, go check that out.

Devin: Dang. Do it. Yeah. Do it.

Steve: What are the last thoughts you wanna leave everyone with?

Devin: My biggest last thought is, like, really, like, live a life that is fearlessly authentic because I think the moment that your identity begins becomes wrapped around something that is outside of who you actually are is the moment that you start living a life on sinking sand. Your ship's gonna crumble back and forth to and fro by the waves of the sea. Right? Like but if you can be rooted and have a strong foundation in who authentically you are, where you wanna go in your life, what that vision is, whatever that is, then I think then you are able to, like, set that path to go that way and and not be distracted by other things. And so for me, it's just like I just kind of live by that, like, used to be fearlessly authentic, man.

I my hope is that somebody can look at me and go, yep. That's the same Devon that I was with last night here or was hit here and that, like, I'm above reproach in my character, and who I say I am, that's who I am. And that and that's just kind of, like, what I wanna leave people with because it's very, very easy to be caught up in what other people think of you. Yeah. And when that happens, you begin to lose sight of who you are.

Steve: Oh, you said something really powerful there. Once you attach your identity to something outside of your control

Devin: Mhmm.

Steve: Now you're gonna at some point or another, you'll be pretty upset.

Devin: That's right. Right?

Steve: You're gonna you're gonna experience some pretty, probably traumatic, unhappiness.

Devin: That's exactly right.

Steve: Someone who wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way?

Devin: Oh, best way? Devin dot Robinson one on Instagram. I'm on there pretty often, so I'll I'll see your DMs. Yeah. That's probably a pretty easy way because, like, I'm happy to jump on a call.

I'm happy to jump on and and answer any questions. That's probably gonna be the easiest way. Devon dot robinson one.

Steve: Instagram, devon dot robinson one. Installmentmethod.com, also 2024.com.

Devin: Please. Those will change your business forever. I'm a little biased, but I really think it will.

Steve: Yeah. Perfect. Thank you so much.

Devin: Oh, thank you, Steve. My pleasure. What do you want?

Steve: For watching. See you guys next time.

Devin: See

Steve: you. Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. We real estate disrupt us.