William Denis explains his transition from wholesaling to 'reverse flipping,' a strategy where he buys deeds to distressed properties for $2,000-$5,000 and creates six-figure profits through loss mitigation. He reveals how his team now processes 5-7 deals daily by focusing on properties with multiple liens, bankruptcies, and other complex title issues that traditional wholesalers avoid.
Buy deeds with unlimited power of attorney to gain control and eliminate seller backing out, rather than using traditional contracts
Target 'zombie foreclosures' - properties with open mortgages but tax delinquencies, as lenders typically pay taxes to protect their position
Look for MLS short sales over 100 days as opportunities to buy the deed from frustrated sellers since they weren't getting paid anyway
1:23:07Casey Ryan from We Buy Any House reveals how he generated $6 million in profit with just 12 employees by leveraging AI automation, data enrichment, and strategic focus. He shares his journey building custom AI tools for call analysis, lead scoring, and CRM automation, plus why he's selling his rental property portfolio to focus on his core wholesaling business.
1:12:00James Harkless of Property Leads shares how his company generates high-quality motivated seller leads for real estate investors, with 1 in 4 homeowners reaching out before selling. He discusses his journey from construction to building a successful pay-per-lead business, innovative features like live transfers, and quality control methods that achieve 25% title transfer rates.
Get a free AI-powered review of your sales calls. See exactly where you're losing deals and how to fix it.
Get notified when new episodes drop, plus a free AI call review.
Forced place insurance claims can be recovered on fire-damaged properties, often providing $50,000-$100,000+ in additional proceeds
Owning deeds allows immediate depreciation benefits based on debt amount, not purchase price, creating significant tax advantages
”“Years in the game, I'm tired of playing a dipshit's game. If you are like us where we've been to all the masterminds, all the meetings, paid for all the coaching, you know, breakout room after breakout room and whatever, it just kinda hit me where I was like, man, this is the same problems at every single mastermind.”
”“What made me stop wholesaling is I I was just on a hamster wheel. Like, I built the second largest company on the East Coast back in the day in 2021 for wholesaling, which was awesome. But it wasn't even worth it.”
”“You don't own the dog till you name it. So I finally named it, and there comes reverse flip.”
”“I would rather own 20% of a watermelon than a 100% of a grape. I see a lot of people in our industry walking around with a handful of grapes.”
17157 words
William Denis: Years in the game, I'm tired of playing a dipshit's game. If you are like us where we've been to all the masterminds, all the meetings, paid for all the coaching, you know, breakout room after breakout room and whatever, it just kinda hit me where I was like, man, this is the same problems at every single mastermind. Mhmm. KPIs and what marketing channel and what strategy we're using. Mhmm.
But it's all the same fundamental issue, which was none of us had ownership of the property from the right underneath my nose, which was buying the deed, right, and then figuring out problem problem. What made me stop wholesaling is I I was just on a hamster wheel. Mhmm. Like, I built the second largest company on the East Coast back in the day in 2021 for wholesaling, which was awesome. But it wasn't even worth it.
We really didn't make that much money. And the headaches that came with it was not worth it.
Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors. Today, we have William Dennis with reverse flip, and William flew in from Boca Raton. Talk about how they're buying five to seven properties every single day. Crazy crazy numbers.
Wow. Guys, I wanna mention to create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. You if you'll take consistent action, you will become one. And if you get value out of today's show, please hit that subscribe button.
That way we can all grow together. You ready?
William: Let's do it.
Steve: Alright. So it wasn't that long ago. I think about two years ago, you were on Yeah. The show. Yeah.
Some things have changed
William: Just a little.
Steve: In the last couple of years. Right? So what are some of the biggest changes that have happened, since we last met here?
William: A lot. So, I'm out of wholesaling. Mhmm.
Steve: Out of wholesaling. Yeah. Some people might turn off right here.
William: That's cool. If you if you tune in, though, you're gonna learn how to make a lot of money any easier. Right?
Steve: Right.
William: You know, the biggest thing is I created a strategy. It's called reverse flipping. Mhmm. Reverse flip. Mhmm.
We trademarked it. Basically, for five years since 2019, I was buying deeds to properties, not tax deeds, but just directly from sellers. And we just
Steve: 2019?
William: Yeah. That was my first deed I ever bought. Mhmm. A mentor of mine said, you don't own the dog till you name it. So I finally named it, and there comes reverse flip.
Mhmm. But, basically, we ran into an issue in 2019. This is kinda like where it all started Mhmm. Where it was such a problem property. There was nothing you could do with it.
Like, no wholesale. It was two mortgages, bankruptcies.
Steve: So hang on before we go on because I Yeah. Yeah. It's all important stuff. Right?
William: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: And this how gets to how we're buying. South start hot. Five to seven properties today. Yeah. But before that, some big news here.
Yeah. South wholesaling. Yeah. Right? And then I know, like, on my own social media, I've talked about how I've stopped buying houses.
William: So I've heard.
Steve: Right? And, that caused some, what was the word? That drama, intrigue. Right? There are people that are interested in
William: it. Sure.
Steve: So you stopped marketing for wholesaling. Yep. What led what led to that?
William: In a simple answer, eight years in the game, I'm tired of playing a dipshits game. Mhmm. That's it.
Steve: That's it.
William: If you are like us where we've been to all the masterminds, all the meetings, paid for all the coaching, you know, breakout room after breakout room and whatever Mhmm. I think it just hit me one day and, you know, necessity is the mother of all invention. And it just kinda hit me where I was like, man, this is the same problems at every single mastermind, the the KPIs and what marketing channel and what strategy we're using. But it's all the same fundamental issue, which was none of us had ownership Mhmm. Of the property from the beginning.
Right. So it was right underneath my nose, which was buying the deed Mhmm. Right, and then figuring out problem problem. What made me stop wholesaling is I I was just on a hamster wheel. Mhmm.
Like, I built the second largest company on the East Coast back in the day in 2021 for wholesaling Mhmm. Which was awesome. But it wasn't even worth it. We really didn't make that much money. Yeah.
And the headaches that came with it just were not worth it.
Steve: Let's see. I wanna say there was a mastermind I ran personally. Right? I ran my own mastermind for a bit. I shut it down.
And we had in there we had, you know, Ryan Pineda, Pace, Jamil, Brent Daniels, all these other guys. Carlos Reyes was in there. I mean, pretty fortunate, right, with the friends I have. Yeah. Right?
William: This is like an all star team.
Steve: Right? Much like what we have with Supergroup. Right? So I had, like, my own little deal. And, like, you know and this is before we all kinda, like, got up to where we're at today.
And I remember Jared Vidalas was in there. Mhmm.
William: Do
Steve: you know Jared? Yeah. Yeah. Right? Not well,
William: but I know him.
Steve: But he made the comment like, guys, I'm tired. And this is 2020. Right? He's like, I'm tired. I was like, what does this mean?
He's like, I've been going so hard since, like, 2018, which is only, like, two years. Yeah. Yeah. He's been going he's like, I'm I've been going so hard. Right.
And I don't own anything. Right? So, like, I need to figure something out different. It's like I'm owning all these things. And, like, since then, I think he's been buying himself, like, 5 to 10 sub 2 a month.
Like, I feel like this whole time. That's great. Right? So he's just got this gigantic portfolio in the Phoenix market, and he just wholesales whatever he doesn't wanna keep. But he's been doing sub two this whole time.
Yeah. So but what stuck out to me in that meeting, again, this is 2020 Yep. Was, like, this idea and we're all young Mhmm. Was wholesaling as a young man's game.
William: It is. Right. And I think it's, look. I I I will forever say I'm very grateful to, you know, finding wholesaling. Right?
Sean Terry's podcast back in the day, that's how I found out. 2017 is when I got in. Six months before that, I was trying to, you know, a whole try, right,
Steve: thing. Yeah.
William: But I think it's a starting point. I think it's a nice leapfrog.
Steve: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
William: You know what I compare it to, Steve? I compare it to, like, bartending. Right? The nightlife industry, I think that that has a shelf life. Mhmm.
When you're in college and when you're like, oh, man. I'm making easy money. Right? And then you stay out late and you do your thing, it's great. But that industry has, like, a black hole Mhmm.
You know, concept to it. Right. Where you'll meet someone who's 40 years old. And, again, no offense towards anybody, but it's like, damn. You never got out.
And I feel like I was running into peep I'm 33 now. When I got started, I was 25. I was running into people. I'm like, holy shit. This person's 50 years old, and we're still wholesaling.
Like, there's gotta be a better way. And I knew that that wasn't for me. I, like, wanted to build up a big operate like, just a lot of ownership, and I just always thought differently.
Steve: So I
William: think wholesaling is great. Mhmm. You can start that way. It's a cash machine. It's what it is.
Doesn't take a lot of effort, you know, for for a hustler. Mhmm. You can certainly make multiple 6 figures, but at a certain point, you have for me, wholesaling was like, alright. This is gonna be a step in Mhmm. To step up.
Right.
Steve: Well and look. Again, just like you tell me wholesaling. I think wholesaling has been great. It's been great for you. It's been great for me.
William: Yeah. Right?
Steve: So, like, there's nothing wrong with wholesaling. It's just we don't stay we don't start wholesaling to stay in wholesaling. No. We start wholesaling so we can buy assets. Right.
That cash flow or whatever, something you can sell. Whatever. Yeah. So we don't no one says I wanna be a wholesaler for twenty years. No.
Right?
William: I mean, yeah, I I know guys that do like, you know, I know guys that they're like, oh, I love what I do. I'm like, god bless you. Yeah.
Steve: But no one said, like, I want to do it for twenty years.
William: No. You don't no.
Steve: I've never Alright. Like, you know, I I wholesale as a career. Like, no one says that.
William: Well, you you look at all of our our friends group that we have a lot of similar friends, right, that are Sure. That are big boys, whatever, and girls. We've all come up kinda through there. Mhmm. Everybody had a different path.
Right? Everybody had a different journey, but Mhmm. We've all kinda come up through there, and what they're doing now, very different. You know? Is wholesaling and, again, to be to be fair and and a 100% transparent, some of my transactions fit within a reverse flip.
The exit is a wholesale. Mhmm. We will wholesale those. But I do not wholesale like, hey. This is I run a a $100,000 a month marketing budget, and I watch my KPIs and do this.
So many deals to contract and all that crap. Mhmm. I don't do that anymore.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So you decided so you gotta change.
And then what was the first thing you did when you decided you're gonna change?
William: So this is back in so, again, I bought my first deed in 2019. Mhmm. 2022. As you know, I I I bought out my ex partner. Mhmm.
And that's when I around the time where I was here. Mhmm. And it's funny. When I was here, this is, like, the same time frame that I was kind of figuring this whole thing out. Mhmm.
It took a little while. Right? Mhmm. I'd taken some l's on the chin, and I was like and I remember asking myself a question, and I was even talking to my girlfriend about it. I was like, I really wanna rebuild this shit again.
Mhmm. 20 plus people and 100 k a month. The answer to everything is, well, you gotta spend more money to get more leads. Right? Like like that crap.
And at that point, I was the the the answer was always no. Mhmm. Like, I just knew it was no, so I was like, man, we gotta figure out a different way. So 2022, I ended up with, like, 20 something deeds Mhmm. From from that partnership split.
And these are deeds that we have bought throughout the years.
Steve: Explain to me what kind of deeds you had.
William: Just quick claim deeds, the properties. Basically, this is all Florida at
Speaker 2: the time.
William: And, basically, it was sellers that we ran into through our normal course of marketing Mhmm. That did not fit a wholesale, an ovation, a flip, or any of these models. And you would call them hairy deals. Right? Some people would call them shit shows.
Some people whatever it is. Right?
Steve: Most of our off market deals are pretty hairy. So this is even more hairy.
William: Exact oh, yeah. This is like the the valedictorian of the hair. You know? So, you know, that when when that situation arose, we were like, alright. Well, let's just make them an offer to buy the deed because these people just want it out.
Right? And we're talking about like, just to get some examples for your audience. Bankruptcies, you know, IRS liens, upside down properties, double, triple mortgages Mhmm. Code violations with debt, heirs that inherited a reverse mortgage property. Right?
So if any of this is sounding familiar, like, that's what we're talking about. So deals that normally in our industry and even in the rooms that we're always in, no one's ever talked about this. They're like, no. It's a dead deal. We don't
Steve: do anything with them. Well, there's no solution for it.
William: Exactly. So I knew there I was like, dude, I'm pretty good for whatever reason at solving these complex things. Mhmm. Right? And I was using I was referred to, by a by a good friend of mine who's done deals forever.
He's been in the game for twenty one years. Most creative guy I've ever met in terms of dealing with these shit properties. And he was like, dude, let me let me give you I called them one day. I had all these deeds, and, you know, I was figuring them out, like, little by little. Right.
But I didn't have, like, a process for them. I call it Alleghetto. You know? Like, that's just how we were figuring out. And he's like, dude, I've used these consultants before on a lot of my hairy deals.
Mhmm. And these guys are studs. And I was like, hey. Can you make the intro? He said, yeah.
And I did, and I spoke to them. And the first deed that I brought to them, I won't say addresses. I won't say names. But it was in Miami Gardens, and I remember bringing them the deed. Three people in our masterminds, by the way, again, I won't say any names, that are experts, told me can't be done.
Mhmm. Dead deal. Nothing you can do. You can't do it with a POA. It has to be the owner.
All this bullshit that we're missing in our industries.
Steve: Yeah.
William: So for a year, I tried to do this deal before this. And these dudes, the first day, I was like, hey. Can you just do me a favor? Can you take a look at this? I'm I know I'm probably wrong.
Just tell me. And the next day, he called me. He's like, dude, you can absolutely do this, and this is exactly how we're gonna do this. I'm like, no shit. And whatever.
That deal ended up turning from a dead deal to a 175 k deal, net. K? I also found insurance proceeds through that deal because they taught me how to do that. So by the second one, the third one, the fourth one, the fifth one, now these guys are like my guys. And I'm watching.
We're popping off 6 figure deals almost every single time. What,
Steve: were these guys old time, creative real estate guys? No. Are these I'll
William: tell you exactly who they were.
Steve: Badass real estate attorneys?
William: No. They were lost mate guys. So for twenty one years, all they've done is lost mitigation. And what I mean by that is short sales, bankruptcies, trustee sales. Right?
All this stuff. And they've come up in the servicer industry from the bottom all the way up to the tippy top, which is Fannie Mae.
Steve: Mhmm.
William: Right? But the very important to note, the last eight years of what they've done before they became consultants
Steve: Mhmm.
William: They worked for Fannie Mae and wrote all the HUD guidelines for eight years. So when I tell you that these guys know more about what's in these mortgages and the clauses and the regulations and the the ninja stuff
Steve: Mhmm.
William: Than the attorneys who put them together, that's putting it lightly.
Steve: Right.
William: I mean, I've seen these guys put attorneys to shame that they're like, no. You can't do that.
Steve: Well, if you're the one that writes the laws. Correct. That's what you're saying here. So Or writes the rules.
William: Yeah. And they understand it, like, at a very like, the same way that we understand when we look at a deal, we're like, it's a deal or it's a no deal. It's intuitive. Right. It's a second nature.
With them, it's it's I know the servicer. I know the department. Right? Whatever. But to tie all this together, by the sixth deal, I made them an offer to partner and buy their company.
They said yes because they wanted to be a part of something bigger. And and I and I kinda, like, I connected the dots being in the rooms that we're in. I was like, man, nobody in our industry is solving this problem at a high level. Yeah. I've never seen anybody teach this kind of stuff.
Mhmm. I've never seen anybody approach this kind of stuff. Everybody always runs away. And I'm like, that's my niche because I've been doing that for five years. Let me just formalize it, and let me build a business, a a legitimate business.
So first
Steve: question that comes to my mind Yeah. When you're talking to these guys Mhmm. Is they see something that you have. Yep. They are massively skilled at one thing.
100%. How to mitigate the loss, but they don't know how to source the deals.
William: Correct.
Steve: So it's kinda like, you know, a lot of the wholesalers are afraid to talk to people with money. It's like, they have the money. Yeah. Right? I was like, yeah.
But the people with the money,
William: they don't
Steve: know how to get the deals. Yeah. Exactly. So you're talking to, like, some of the smartest guys or in this niche
William: Yeah.
Steve: The smartest people.
William: Mhmm.
Steve: And their problem is I need someone to bring me the deals. Correct. So when you come up when you came in, they're like, hey. Here's here's what I bring to the table. Mhmm.
They were solid.
William: Yeah. Because, again, I compare it to, like, artists. Right? Like, an artist is is an you know, they are artists, right, in the sense that they're tacticians. Mhmm.
They know their stuff, dude. They're artists. They could write the best song. Right? Things that I can't do and you can't do.
But they don't understand marketing. They don't understand how to attract the deals in. They don't understand the actual ground and pound of, like, hey. This is mister seller. This is how you talk to them, get the deed, and bring it home.
Right? Mhmm. So it was it was just the meeting of the minds was perfect. Also volume. You know?
I mean, I made a pretty I just saw the play, but I was like, dude, we could do, like, 500 deals a year. There's no question.
Steve: Which is now low.
William: Which is now low because we're tracking on a thousand. Right? And I and I think that that number is even low because it keeps moving. Mhmm. But they saw it, and they wanted rather than to work.
And this is why, like, very important where an opportunity meets kind of preparation. Right? People call it luck. Mhmm. It's kinda true.
I don't believe in luck. But I had the eight years of experience, and I had paid my dues for seven in the masterminds. So I knew, dude, if I could get this strategy to work and by the way, we can get into, like, my community and how I was already teaching them how to do that for a year and a half before that. So I knew, okay. Not only can I do the deals, but I could teach somebody how to do these deals?
And my best student had made 1,200,000.0 at 26 years of age in Miami. So this is the most comp one of the most competitive markets in in the country. I'm like, well, if that works Right. Then it has to work.
Steve: Right? Sure.
William: So I showed them that side. I'm like and they didn't wanna work with forty, fifty different clients. Mhmm. They wanted it to be simple. And I said, well, we'll be partners, and we will be the client.
Steve: Kinda like hedge funds. They don't wanna work with, like
William: Correct.
Steve: 100 different wholesalers. They want, like, three to five. In this instance Yeah. They want one interface.
William: One interface. And and, again, we're tying in technology behind it, SaaS and all that. There's data that we can talk about. I mean, this thing has grown into 30 different directions. Right?
And and directions meaning, like, verticals within the space. The ultimate end goal is to standardize the process of loss mitigation in America.
Steve: So we're gonna hold off on that.
William: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. So let's talk about your first deal that you did with these guys. Yeah. What was the first deal? Like It was a deed
William: that I owned, and I had owned it for, I think, like, a year before. Mhmm. So I'll give you the specifics of that Yeah. If that's what you're looking for.
Steve: So it
William: was a reverse mortgage, probate needed to be done, one heir, and the property was fire damaged. And so if you're looking for triggers, that was yeah. It's about that's what I told you. Like, the hair, like like, all of our deals have hair, but, like, ding ding ding. It's like a trifecta.
Right? And it had violations from the city. Right? Yeah. It was it was about yeah.
It was about as bad as it gets. Right? Condemned house. I mean, you name it. Right?
And the interesting thing is and this is, like, what proved my theory too. That house had been sitting in that condition for five years. So the fire had happened, like, in 2018 or something. Yeah. This is Miami Gardens in Miami, Florida, which is arguably the hottest market in Miami.
Right?
Steve: So for so so for context, everyone is listening. Like, this is a nice part of town. Yeah. Right. I don't know.
I'm not No.
William: It's still the I mean, it's it's kinda yeah. It's it's changed, but it's where Rick Ross is from, like Carroll City.
Steve: So this is a good part of town, not good?
William: Yeah. It's alright. It's working class, let's say.
Steve: Okay. So somewhat desirable.
William: It's just very hot for flippers. Okay. Hot for flippers. Yeah.
Steve: Got it. Okay. So now but it's been sitting there, and no one wants to touch it.
William: Correct. And when you look at it and and I remember the lady coming in because we had bought it a year before. I remember the lead coming in like it was yesterday. And, you know, the conversation was just very common for, you know, people that are listening. Well, where do I go get started?
The conversation was it was an air, and she I believe she came in through direct mail or cold calling. Don't quote me. But she came in and she's like, nobody can buy this. Like, my mom left, you know, with a reverse mortgage. It's got liens.
It's got a fire damage. Like, there's nothing you can do. People have tried. And Whenever I hear that, I had done enough already where I'm like, well, how about if I give you $2,500 for the deed and I take on this problem? He's like, done.
So I did. We bought the quick claim deed with a POA, unlimited power of attorney.
Steve: So why were people not able to get it done?
William: Because they didn't understand how to how to do the loss mid side. Period. There's also a lot of myths behind it. Like, oh, reverse mortgages can only be mitigated to 95% of appraised value.
Steve: That's bullshit. Because, like, I'm just thinking. Yeah. This lady comes into my office. Yeah.
Here's my problem.
William: Mhmm.
Steve: Risk mortgage, fire damage, inherited property, this and that. Right? For me, I would just go straight to short sale. Right. Why like, no one thought that was an option, or why is that not acceptable option?
William: I think well, it ended up being a short sale. Okay. That's the short of it. But no pun intended. But the the first obstacle was, well, I have to do a probate for her.
So no. I don't think anybody was willing to risk it on a fire damaged property.
Steve: Got it.
William: Put up the money to do the probate. Mhmm. One. Two, no one I know other than one other guy that's been doing this for twenty years was would have thought of let's buy the deed first. Mhmm.
Right? Normally, it would have been like a contract. Right? Then the seller can back out, and then you run into all the issues that we
Steve: have. Right.
William: So I think that there was a couple layers of problems before even thinking about you had to clear title first in order for the probate to have worked and in order for the short sale to have worked Right. For the bank to deal with you. Sure. So that's what I knew how to do. Mhmm.
But, again, it was very simple. I mean, it was deed
Steve: Right.
William: E o a.
Steve: So $2,500
William: Mhmm.
Steve: And she signs over the d t u. Right. Right. Notarized. The owner.
Recorded. Mhmm. So on the tax records
William: I'm the owner.
Steve: William Dennis or whatever company you had
William: The Land Trust. Yep.
Steve: Is the owner of the property.
William: Correct.
Steve: Gotcha. Mhmm. Okay. Yep.
William: You could do that or not do that?
Steve: You do that, you get a limited power of attorney. Mhmm. What's what does a limited power of attorney do for you?
William: It's a great question. So a limited power of attorney, one of the secret docs that we found to why so many man, you're gonna, like, unlock so many things here. But and I don't know which direction you wanna go in here. But short sales so, like, I'm gonna just drop some stats here.
Steve: Yeah. K?
William: About seventy five percent of short sales in America fail.
Steve: Of course. K?
William: That's a fact, by the way. It's not me making
Steve: it up. You look them up
William: to the stack.
Steve: They're difficult to execute because you have a lot of moving parts. You got homeowners that are erratic. You got banks who don't know their ass from their head. Right. You got, like, 70 different people that touch the file at the bank, and they don't talk to each other.
William: And that exactly. So I'll tell you the number one reason. There's two reasons why short sales fail. I'm filming this video for the man
Speaker: himself, mister Ian Ross. The guy crush is the guy's the best person in sales I've ever seen. I've invested elsewhere, and I haven't got the same results. I've gone from being a seller, making 5 k a month, to being a hybrid role, making 11 k a month, to now be four months down the line from 5 k to on a closing opportunity, inbound, full calendar with the best opportunity, the best offer in my space. Space.
OTE is around 20 k a month from month two. So I've gone from 5 k to 20 k. If that's not a return on your investment, I don't know what it is, man.
William: If you're
Speaker: a salesperson and you don't invest in sales training, you're gonna get left behind because your job is to be better at sales, and sales training directly makes you more money.
Speaker 3: My name is Lance McCann. I have recently switched in sessions with Ian Ross. Those conversations with Ian has made me $50,000 in the past two deals that I've had. I was able to renegotiate go back the original purchase price on one deal, and I saved $40,000, and I got another $10,000 off by other deals. Call me in, give me a chance.
Steve: You won't be ready.
Speaker: If you like what you just heard and you'd like to have similar types of results, similar success, text close, c l o s e, to 33777, and we'll see if you qualify to join Advanced Sales Mastery. We are taking people from good
Steve: to great. This
William: is why short sales fail, 75% of them. Number one, bad documentation, meaning you submitted the wrong docs. Number two, bad process. You didn't know where to submit the the the right docs, but you don't even have the right docs. So what we've figured out is if we have a POA, which is how we teach this, well, you can negotiate on behalf of that heir or seller day one.
Mhmm. It's a third party authorization letter. That's something that armed law Smith team does, prepares for you and everything.
Steve: Yeah.
William: That speeds up the shorts. Do you know how long we're taking for short sales? Forty five days flat.
Steve: Pretty good.
William: That's amazing. Yeah. You understand there's six to seven months. Oh? Yeah.
Oh, yeah. So, dude, the best short sale specialist in our groups tried these. They took four months just to get a denial. Yeah. We got a we got this deal done at a 180 k profit almost in in forty seven days.
Steve: Yeah.
William: It's unheard of. So the POA really takes away you try you try going back to an error 67 documents later. Hey. Hey. I need you to sign this.
I need you to sign this. That's why they fail.
Steve: Right. Right. Absolutely.
William: Right. And then the reason the second reason why they fail and why it was taught the wrong way before I started teaching the the whole deed thing was even if you got a contract, now the seller can die, literally. The The seller can change their mind. They're erratic. They could go ghost.
Right? And that's the problem with our industry. People are like, oh, man. Now I gotta now you gotta go sue a seller Mhmm. Who's already in a shitty situation, and good luck with that Right.
While the bank is foreclosing. Well, if you have the deed, you no longer need that seller. It's over. Yeah. Right?
So it the short answer is control. That's how we're able to be so successful.
Steve: Got it. So in that scenario, I mean, you're talking about a short sale, and you're also saying you're talking about, you know, new 180 k. Those two things don't necessarily go hand in hand. Normally, short sale is, like, seller might get between 3 and 15,000 maybe if we did a killer job. Right?
You're talking about doing over 6 figures.
William: Yep.
Steve: How does that happen?
William: We're that good. That's the short of it. Yeah. But we so the seller got her $2,500. Mhmm.
Right? We are now the owner. Just keep in mind. Yeah. Short sales have to be double closes.
Right? All that stuff because you can't assign short sales. But, basically, we understand, and this is what we do. That's why you partner with us because we're the best at the lost mid side
Steve: Right.
William: Which is we know how to call for those appraisals. Mhmm. We know how to appeal those appraisals or the BPOs depending on the servicer. So when the appraisal came in, the so the ARV is five twenty of that property. This closed, like, I don't know, four months ago or something.
ARV is $5.20. The debt from the reverse mortgage was $3.11. Mhmm. Automatically, without even trying, we got it down to a payoff of $2.18. Mhmm.
So it's fire damage. So it needs about a 100 k worth of work. Right. We can agree that $5.20 to $2.18, you got a deal.
Steve: Right.
William: Right? Cool. We got the liens kinda mitigated. It was a bunch of BS, you know, compliance, whatever, and and, like, grass and stuff. This is where it gets crazy.
So my guys know how to look for you you know what forced place insurance is? No. So forced place insurance is like when a property when a seller stops paying their mortgage, you know their insurance is tied into that. Mhmm. So what happens when they go into foreclosure, their insurance stops?
Steve: Or the bank picks it up.
William: Right. Do you think the bank just leaves it there? No. So it's called forced place policies, where all banks have, like, this umbrella kind of policy, and they put it onto that property because they have a $300,000 loan Yeah.
Steve: They got a return on,
William: which it did in this case. Right? That covers it.
Steve: Right.
William: Check this out. Fannie Mae had received an insurance check Mhmm. For $75 for this property Right. Which belongs to the state, which is now me. Right.
So there's your $2.18 payoff. Knock off 75,000 again from the $2.18 to whatever that brings you down to, like, $1.50 or something, 1 Right. 40 something. Land value alone was 200. Alright?
Then you take it a step further. We got a public adjuster to appeal the 75 k because the actual insurance payoff amount Much larger. Was much larger. So we got it appealed to $1.25. So now you created a 125 spread plus the short sale payoff.
There you end up with a 175 k. Pretty awesome. Yeah. We do that all the time. Yeah.
Yeah. Alright.
Steve: So how long because the short sale, is it still from the heir to you during that transaction?
William: So the short sale is from the lender to the estate. Right.
Steve: Yeah. And then but the estate has transferred its due to you.
William: Correct. We probate it.
Steve: Right. Now, you own it.
William: Mhmm.
Steve: Get all this done. And now you're doing the work and flipping it, or you what did you or you
William: just I'd slapped it on the MLS and
Steve: Sold it as a fire damaged property. Correct. There you go. So simple.
William: Not not I I hate fixing flips.
Steve: So the exit strategy what's what's the term? Right? All that matters in when you're the easiest way to make money in real estate is to buy the deal right. Right. Buy the deal right?
William: For $2,500, you're gonna be just fine.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah.
William: You know, obviously, you have to know what to do on the back end. I'm not things seem a little easy.
Steve: But Of course. Of course. And then what was the next deal after that?
William: Well, let me just say one thing on that deal because you you you said something. You owned it. Right? Mhmm. That's very important distinction to pick up on.
One of the things so I had a massive tax bill in 2021 Mhmm. Right, personally from made a lot of money. Well, thankfully for me, I had bought a lot of deeds. Mhmm. Yeah.
Steve: Well, what do
William: you get to do with property that you own? You can depreciate it. Mhmm. So I had ended up with, like, $12,000,000 worth of real estate that I could depreciate Mhmm. Either off your basis or off the debt.
So when you own that deed day one, you can depreciate even if you paid $0, but the debt is three eleven Mhmm. You can depreciate three eleven Mhmm. Anytime the length of ownership. You can take it a step further. You could do a cost seg.
Mhmm. You can depreciate it five to seven years instead of twenty seven and a half years. So this is very important because we've I've ended up with, like, $30,000,000 now worth of real estate, so I don't pay taxes legally.
Steve: And and
William: that's how you do it. Right? Yeah. So most people don't understand that. You really have to understand ownership and debt.
Mhmm. Right? And, again, these are things that I found out kinda like, holy shit. You know? Like, that was cool.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I think that alone
William: Is worth
Steve: is worth listening. Right? The the buying a d for 2,500
William: Yeah.
Steve: Your first year, you're writing off more than 2,500 depreciation.
William: Oh, yeah.
Steve: So your profit
William: Was already there.
Steve: On day one. Correct. Yeah. You're you're net positive on day one.
William: For every million but this is a rule of thumb. And, again, I'm not a CPA, but this is a rule of thumb. Like, for every million bucks or so that you own in real estate, give or take, there's a lot of variables, but you're gonna get anywhere from 25,000 to $40,000 per year in taxable depreciation Right. For every million bucks. Mhmm.
If you end up with 10,000,000, you end up with about $400,000 every year that you can write off. Right. My tax bill was barely close to that one. Yeah. And so, thankfully, it's not.
Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Alright. So that was the first deal. That was the first deal.
William: Well, that wasn't the first deal I ever did, but that was the first deal with the consultants. Yeah.
Steve: Right. And so now we got, you know, one of the things to talk about in wholesaling. Like, the very first deal you do Yeah. Or, like, you watched Instagram. Right?
You see the cashier's checks. You see the guys in the Lambos and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Range Rover.
Yeah. Yeah. I know the Range Rover is, what's up? Rolls Royce.
William: Yeah.
Steve: Right? You see the Rolls Royce with, like, the sparkling ceilings? I still don't get, personally. That's just me.
William: It's a cool feature. I don't have one.
Steve: But Yeah. I don't get it. Anyway, I I guess it's good for the gram. So you see all these people making money in wholesale. Right?
And then you start going down this road. It's like, is this real? And you get your first check even if it's only, like, $1,800. Yeah. It's real.
It's real. Yeah. Right? And something in your mind changes. And now you attack the game very differently.
Very. Did you have that same experience here?
William: Yeah. Yeah. I did.
Steve: I get proof of concept now.
William: The the mind blowing thing so the first deal I ever did going back to without the consultant, going back to 2019, that deed, I bought it for 5, I think, or 4. Mhmm. Something like that. Oscar Sotelo, I'll never forget the seller. Mhmm.
It was in Miami. Real big shit box worse than this one. So we I ended up buying that deed, and we did acquire title.
Steve: Mhmm.
William: And then we made $87, like, ninety days later. Mhmm. And I learned all this on the fly with my attorney who was a stud. Right? He had had twenty years of experience, like, oh, yeah.
We'll do a quiet title. We'll just quiet the mortgage out. I was like, what? And the seller had a bankruptcy, but I was like, alright. This is crazy.
Keep in mind, like, this is 2019, two years into the wholesaling. So I'm, like, used to, like, a $10,000 wholesale at the time. Like, 20 was, like, what? Like like, we're going partying. You know?
Like, that was a big deal. And then this thing hits at 87. I was, like, you know, just Yeah. Just right there. But, yeah, in '20, when we started doing deals like this, the moment happened where it's like because I've done a lot of I mean, I've done over 650, like, wholesale flips, whatever, traditional.
I'm like, man, the amount of effort that was required here without swinging a hammer was impressive. Mhmm. You know? And then the time frame was very comparable. Right?
It was just a different skill set. So, yeah, it definitely blew my mind. And, of course, like, I'm I'm I'm a quick thinker. Like, I thought of the nation, and I'm like, shit. There's probably millions of these problems around.
Steve: So you mentioned something just now Yeah. Before we get to the second property. Mhmm. Quiet title. Not everyone knows what that is.
I didn't even learn about it until I once said, like, 2020. So, like, you and I have a mutual friend
William: Yeah.
Steve: Who taught me a lot of the stuff we're talking about here, not to this detail. Yep. Right? And he taught me about, you know, quiet title Yep. To get rid of I
William: know who you're talking about.
Steve: Right. Yeah. So for everyone that's not familiar with quiet title Yeah. Can you elaborate on what that is?
William: Yeah. So simply put, it's a lawsuit. Mhmm. Right? And, basically, what you're doing is title is like a succession thing.
Right?
Steve: And Chain of title.
William: Right. You chain of title. And then also you have, like, mortgages and stuff. Right? Encumbrances on it.
So a quiet title is you you sue. Usually, it's a lender that you know is dormant. Mhmm. And you through that lawsuit, you can prove to the court this lender didn't do x. There's a number of reasons.
Right? But, like, oh, they didn't have the document. They didn't have the original note. They didn't have the promise or whatever it is. And then you can wipe out that mortgage.
Right. So you quiet the title, which means now you have clear title Mhmm. Hence, quiet title. And that's that's basically what it is.
Steve: And, like, the the best places was, when we had these zombie houses.
William: I love zombie for we still get them.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So sub what are zombie houses?
William: Yeah. So zombie dude, I just I was on my community call today, and I taught him that. But, basically so for anybody watching this, great lead ever. And if you ever see this, you should pick up the phone and call Steve or me or submit this deal to us. It's it's a winner, a 100%.
So basically, a zombie foreclosure or zombie title or zombie known, whatever you wanna call them, the lender always services the taxes. Mhmm. Right. Why? Because they don't want it to go to tax auction because if it goes to tax auction, they get wiped out.
Yeah. So lenders always escrow the property taxes. Mhmm. If you ever see a house with an open mortgage and tax delinquency, you find that owner, buy the deed, get a POA, and you can almost guarantee you that you'll wipe out that mortgage.
Steve: Yeah.
William: So that that's a great little hack there. But that's a zombie foreclosure. So it's basically, a dormant loan. Mhmm. Lender fell asleep at the wheel.
You'll know because it's tax delinquent. Mhmm.
Steve: Or if it
William: has an HOA sale, usually, that's a that's a good indicator too, and you can get those wiped out.
Steve: Yeah. So what I understand as well whenever whenever you're doing quiet title is you can just do a publication in the newspaper. Amazing. You don't even have to notify Mhmm. The lender directly.
I don't have to call William and say, hey. This mortgage that you have Nope. I just have to publish it in the newspaper. And if they don't see it in the newspaper Yeah. That's their problem.
Right.
William: It's still a lot. It's
Steve: crazy that you could buy I think there was someone that was, like, completely getting blasted. I, like I think it was in Texas. Or, like, he bought, like, this, like, $1,600,000 mansion.
William: Uh-huh.
Steve: And all he did was, like, he took it over, and he's quiet at the time. Everyone's like, how'd you buy this house for, like, $2,000?
William: We've done them. Yeah. We've done them.
Steve: Okay. So going back. So that was the first deal with the consultants.
William: Yep.
Steve: 6 figures, first deal. Yep. Pretty good situation. Pretty good. Yeah.
Alright. What was the next house you guys did?
William: The next house was another, I think it was a reverse mortgage. 4415 is the address. No. 4450. Same thing.
We bought it. Actually, another investor had it. Yeah. And he left it. I knew the attorney.
Mhmm. Right? He had filed a lawsuit or whatever against the seller. And and he said and I quote, he said, I don't want it. It's a dead deal.
Mhmm. I said, no problem. So he had a default final judgment against the seller. I bought his default final judgment for $2,500.
Steve: Default as in, like, the performance?
William: Yeah. Performance. Which I don't know why he sued the seller because he should have pulled his lien and title search first, but God bless him. I bought the judgment for $2,500. Mhmm.
And then I spoke to the seller who it was a reverse mortgage. And this is another myth for you. Most people think, oh, reverse mortgages go into foreclosure because someone died. Usually a death is where it triggers a foreclosure because that's how they recoup their money. Not true.
You can go into foreclosure on reverse mortgage for missing a tax payment
Steve: or
William: an insurance payment.
Steve: Really?
William: Yeah. Okay. So people there's a lot of people that are alive that are not dead.
Speaker: Mhmm.
William: And everyone's like, oh, they're dead. That's why I reversed no. This guy had just missed one year property taxes. Mhmm. Immediately, the reverse mortgage gets triggered.
Mhmm. So you can another myth for you. You can reinstate reverse mortgages. Yeah. All the time.
You can keep them as sub twos all the time. So that's another thing we do with the reverse flip method. So this guy, that was his situation. We ended up offering $10 for his deed. It's very important.
We didn't give him the $10 upfront. We We got the deed in the POA. We gave him zero. We tied him to the end. Hey, once we figure this out successfully, you'll get your $10.
Alright. So no problem because we stopped the lawsuit for him. Right? Mhmm. We got the other investor out of the way.
They did a a short sale again. We created 111 or $108,000 worth of equity right there. The house was a little bit damaged. Fourth place insurance came again, came around again. So we actually filed the claim and the claim was paid out.
It was $57. The rehab cost me 35 because I wanted to keep this as rental. So I got paid $22 to rehab this home, gave the seller the 10. Right? There was a JV that brought me the deal, gave him 10.
Mhmm. And then we ended up reinstating it for 11,000. The joke. Mhmm. And keep in mind, reverse mortgages don't have a monthly payment.
Steve: Right.
William: The the reverse amortized, meaning that it's tied into the back of the loan. Yeah. So this thing section eight is for $29.50 a month net every single month. So this thing is clocking me in $30 a year, plus it appraise at $4.50. There's another half million of depreciation captured.
So, again, 6 figure deal. Saw that one. And then the third, fourth, fifth, it was basically to go
Steve: on to all the rest.
William: But Yeah. On market works like a charm too.
Steve: Yeah. So what does that mean?
William: There's a hack for all everybody watching right now. Go into your market on the MLS and search up all active and pending short sales with over a hundred days. Mhmm. Somebody fucked up. Mhmm.
Short sales should not be taking a hundred days. Yeah. So go to the agent. Our community is awesome at this shit. We're buying three to four of these a day around the country.
You go to the agent. Mhmm. You offer to buy the deed and POA from the seller. They're guaranteed their commission because on a short sale, they're gonna get paid anyway. Mhmm.
And then we bring it in house, and we run it. Mhmm. That is the easiest sale you'll ever make. Yeah. Because the seller was not walking away with anything in a short sale situation.
At best, a relocation fee
Steve: Mhmm.
William: Which could be, like, 5 to $10.
Steve: Right.
William: That's basically what we negotiate the deed for. Mhmm. Yeah. So that's an easy one.
Steve: So we're talking about, you know, you're doing 5 to seven deals a day.
William: A day.
Steve: So those numbers sound unfathomable, unrealistic. Yeah. Right?
William: Mhmm. How are
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William: So through our community. So we all we do is JV Mhmm. With our community. And basically, we we have a school community, which is awesome. I think it's at over 200 now.
Mhmm. It's a small fee every single month. It's $2.97 a month, which is a joke Right.
Steve: For
William: what you're getting. We have live training in there, live coaching. I mean, my sales director's in there. Juan, I'm in there. Justin Colby's in there.
Right? And then what's happened now is that the community is working with one another, so they'll JV deals with one another. And then ultimately, all they I wanted this to be as easy as possible. Alright. So there's a lot of power behind this community.
Very similar to, like, what Paste did, right, with the sub two and stuff like that, except that these deals make a lot more money. Mhmm. But that's besides the point. The community feeds on itself. So we've taught these guys and girls how to go out and get the deed in POA, and then they just submit it.
Mhmm. Then our team takes it from there and handles the rest. And at the end, we choose our exit. Mhmm. So a lot of the times we'll be like, hey.
We wanna keep this one. Well, we could wholesale this for $40. So here's your 20, right, or whatever the split is, and we'll we'll keep we'll put ours into the basis. They're shit happy. Obviously, this lead was dead.
Mhmm. Or sometimes they might wanna keep it. That's cool with us too. You can buy it from our portion. You can keep it right.
We want this community to accumulate wealth to new. Mhmm. We keep it as a sub two. Maybe we we just wholesale it. And, you know, our average deal is about 60 k right now.
Right? In this community, which is like 3 times the national average. Right. So this community is where we were like, I didn't want to do marketing anymore. I wanted to teach people how to do this, and they can just funnel back in and we could do deals together.
So we actually I don't charge for coaching anymore unless it's, like, really high end one on one, which I rarely do because of time. But, basically, this whole community is just doing deals with each other Mhmm. And actually making money.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm listening to the show. Right? Yeah.
I I joined the community. Yep. And I learned from you how to source the deals. Not how to source the deals. Well, I guess, how to find the deals.
Yep. Right? And then I submit it to you. Right. And then now your team goes to work.
William: Yep.
Steve: And then I get access to the loss mitigation company.
William: So you do get to see part of it, because of a SOC two. Not Not to get into the weeds, but it's like a very security thing because we we're an approved vendor of Fannie Mae. Mhmm. So a lot of this information is sensitive. You're not gonna be on all the email chains.
We legally can't do it, but you do get updates throughout the entire transaction. I mean, we're fully transparent. You see the HUD, you see what we do. And actually, when we go to choose the exit, we we don't choose it with you, but we consult you. And we're like, alright, look, we know that this is the the best way for this deal.
Maybe it's a wholesale. Right? Maybe maybe it's a novation. Maybe it's a flip. Right?
And then and then we choose our exit and we continue. Right. Yeah. But it's basically the only thing you need to focus on is sourcing deals. Mhmm.
Right. And I think that's we've coached a lot of people over the years, you and I. Right? I think one of the biggest problems in our industry, is everybody wants to be great at everything. Yeah.
Right. And let's just be honest. Entrepreneurship is not for everybody. And to run an acquisition department and then a disposition department and the marketing department and do all that crap, dude, a lot of people are not good at it because it's very difficult. But if all you have to focus on go acquire these things and get the deed and POA and then submit them and get your checks at the end, you will make far more money that way.
Mhmm. And you'll be better at it. Then then does it make sense?
Steve: Yeah. You do one thing and do one thing well or do one thing at least consistently. Correct. Yeah.
William: And you take away all the risk. So
Steve: when is the right time to talk to you? Right? Because we're talking about, like but we're talking, like, if you have a wholesale deal, this is not what It could be? It could be.
William: It could be.
Steve: Okay. In what circumstances would it make sense?
William: Usually, what what what the users are gonna understand more or, excuse me, the viewers are gonna understand more is a dead deal, a dead lead. Mhmm. A hairy deal, upside down, no equity. Right? All those kinds of things.
It it's gonna be pretty blatant when you have a seller Mhmm. Where it's like, we can't wholesale this thing. We can't flip this thing. There's no equity in this thing.
Steve: Right.
William: That's a reverse flip. Right.
Steve: So basic conversation. It's going through your database and, like Dead leads? Here are all the deals. Here are all the sellers that we couldn't do anything with.
William: Great starting point.
Steve: Yeah. So, you know, let's just say most of our dead leads are people that have it's not a hairy deal. It's just they want to sell, but they don't wanna go with the realtor. Right? We put a lot of those in a dead leads category.
Sure. Are you saying you wanna work with those two?
William: It could. It just depends on the equity situation and how realistic that seller is. Yeah. You know? It's usually a pain thing where it's it's stacked things on top.
It's like they don't really have a lot of equity.
Steve: Mhmm.
William: You couldn't novate them, let's say. Right. There's no spread there. Mhmm. Some excuse me.
Sometimes they'd have to come to this closing table with money. That's a great one. Alright. You put money in their pocket. Mhmm.
Right? If it's an heir, heirs with debt, meaning an inherited property that has debt on it, that's an amazing lead. Because not only did they inherit something that they can't afford, but now they inherited something that has no equity. Mhmm. I mean, shit.
What a bad scenario to be in. Right? And they don't know what the hell to do with them. Maybe it needs a probate. Right?
Right. Those are those are great deals too.
Steve: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Alright. So then how are you you got you said you got a kid in there, 26 years old?
Yep. At one point two mil? Yep. So talk to me. What's he doing He's
William: doing this.
Steve: That's that's making this much money.
William: His niche within this niche like, he's only doing reverse flips, but he focuses on probates Mhmm. With multiple heirs in Miami Dade County. Doesn't do any other county. That's it. He got nine no.
He got 18 deals in the last sixty days. He actually had to stop sending probates to the probate attorney because he couldn't handle it anymore. So now he's got another problem to solve for, which I'm helping him solve. Say that again. He he had he was getting so many deals in that were probates that the probate attorney was like, you need to calm down.
There's 18 probates to do. Mhmm. Like, in one shot plus this probate attorney, he's also my probate attorney, and now he was flooded. Mhmm. He's like, dude, I got, like, 50 probates going on right now.
So he act the kid had to stop. His name is Oscar. He had to stop his marketing on the front end because he he could not bring in more deals Mhmm. Which now we're solving for a different problem.
Steve: Gotcha. So, if someone is specialty is probate Yep. And we're talking about getting Willie involved.
William: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Because, I'm trying to think, like, there are a couple of guys. Logan Fulmer comes to mind Mhmm. Yeah. In, I think he's in Austin, Texas.
William: Mhmm.
Steve: And then uncle Carl.
William: Uncle Carl.
Steve: Alright. Carlsville Vogel. Yeah. Right? I mean, he loves Yep.
Loves difficult title.
William: Oh, yeah?
Steve: Right. Have you talked to him?
William: No. I haven't. I haven't. Look. To be honest, like, this thing has taken off like a bat out of hell.
Mhmm. So guys are and girls are, like, contacting us so much that we've set up webinars with basically all their communities. Yeah. There's a waiting list now, basically. I mean, there's always room that we can make, but the community is just, like, compounding on itself.
Steve: Right.
William: And there's so many of these I mean, the family mastermind alone. Mhmm. It was it was, like, 30. It was just, like, no. I wanna do this.
And I was like, alright. Well, you know, I only got so much time. Right? Right. So yeah.
But I'm happy to talk to anybody and anybody who's watching this. I was at boardroom, and and I presented in my breakout room, which you weren't in, sadly. But I presented in that boardroom, and and I I was the only guy. I was like, I'm telling you right now, I'm not gonna do a presentation about KPIs. Mhmm.
Like, right now, I don't have an ask in my business. The only thing I have is I wanna present this opportunity Mhmm. To the freaking room. Alright. Because I think everybody in this room should be doing this.
Yeah. Like, it's a disservice. I thought this is what these groups were for, you know? It's like, hey. We figured out some cool shit.
Imagine Novations ten years ago. Right. You would have been that guy that brought it. Right? Mhmm.
So I did and do the room. A lot of the the leaders were coming in during my presentation just to hear it because they were like, what the is going on here? Alright. So a lot of those guys started doing deals with us, and then we've opened up commercial too because this works on the commercial side.
Steve: So talking about doing this in commercial?
William: So a lot of it is receiverships. Mhmm. So receiverships in commercial is basically like a trustee sale on the residential side. Yeah. We just don't call it receiverships.
So it's when an asset gets placed into think of it like a bankruptcy trustee sale.
Steve: Mhmm.
William: Right? And now the receiver has a fiduciary duty basically to negotiate this asset. Right. A lot of problem mortgages too. Right?
People think that commercial don't have the same problems that residential has. Well, commercial owners die. Mhmm. There are probates in commercial. There's tax delinquencies in commercial.
There's IRS tax liens in commercial.
Steve: Probably a lot of those.
William: A lot. Yeah. Which IRS liens, we we love them. We negotiate the shit out of them. And after seven years, you can wipe out an IRS lien.
Steve: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So, we're gonna post a a URL, right, on the screen. We'll put it in the show notes.
So if someone wants to find out more about this, they can go on the link. So what can they expect? Right? They go on a link. Mhmm.
They check out. What can they expect in working with you?
William: So they join the school community. Mhmm. Number one. The reason for that is because we have it all centralized and the best education is coming in there. There's all resources library.
Every single doc that we use is available to you there. Meaning, like, the deed, the POA, the assignment of surplus. Right? Everything. Everything's there.
There are live coaching calls three times a week. Right? We teach you how to bring people into the community and be affiliate yourself so you can you can make some extra income there. Right? And the community can continue to grow.
But, basically, it's an ongoing community. If you went in, I'll show it to you after off camera, but it's so active. Mhmm. It's like one post will have, like, 30 comments. Right?
And people are like, this is going on nationwide now. So people are like, hey. I got this problem. Hey. I got this auction.
Hey. And then another person would be like, oh, oh, dude, I just ran into that. Oh, what'd you do? Well, I did this. And I'm always in there too.
You know, Colby and I are in there chiming in. We're helping you get deals right across the business line. Like, one thing I hated about our industry was and a lot of coaches are gonna hate me for this, but they're like, Oh, just pay me $20 and I'll teach you all this shit. And there you go. Alright.
On your way. And that's why people go and they fail. There's no one there to hold their hand. Right. Which is why I think fortune builders did so well because they actually stuck with their person, their client.
With us, I've done the whole coaching model, but even the first student I ever coached was a JV model. Mhmm. We were gonna JV the first fit the first four deals, fifty fifty.
Steve: Yeah.
William: That's what my coaching model was. And guess what happened? I had a huge success rate because my my success was tied into their success. Yeah. Right?
You didn't pay me some massive fee, and it's like, well, I hope you get it. Yeah. Because think about it. Right? You remember being new?
Mhmm. You go out there into the world. You have a seller tell you to go fuck yourself first day. You're like, oh my god. This is terrible.
Right? And now you got no support. You're like, what do I do? And there goes that guy that helped you. So that's the biggest key.
Mhmm. It's it's the continuity.
Steve: Right.
William: Where where you're not gonna you're not gonna get, like, let down because you're consistently in there.
Steve: Alright. So, yeah. So this is I mean, I can obviously sense the excitement. Oh, dude. I'm pumped.
Alright. Where do you see this going?
William: 300 deals a month.
Steve: Three Three hundred deals a month?
William: Yeah. That's the metric.
Steve: Gotcha. Gotcha. What's the so since this is newer, right, it's kind of a, like, a,
William: No. It's not newer. It's new, Steve.
Steve: New. It's
William: brand new. There's nothing like it. There's no mentor out there. There's nothing.
Steve: So what have been some of the biggest challenges that you mean, literally? Right? Your your intention is to disrupt.
William: Disrupt the shit out of this industry.
Steve: Right. Yeah. So what have been some of the challenges you've had in growing this side? Because
William: Oh, yeah.
Steve: You know, like, you know, you and I, we were talking about before the show started, like Mhmm. These aren't necessarily new concepts. Yeah. It's just you know how to solve them better now. Right.
Right? You're a better problem solver than, than you were five years ago
William: Mhmm.
Steve: Than me right now. So so you're solving new problems here. So Yeah. What have been some of the challenges in trying to, you know, get this message out there and helping other people inside your community execute execute on this? You spent countless weeks going back and forth with the homeowner only to lose a deal because the seller changed their mind, another wholesaler made an unreasonable offer, or what the seller needs from the sale, you just can't pay.
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William: I think the real only challenge that we have is well, there's a couple ones. Right? Number one, educating that community. Right? We didn't realize how I mean, we kind of did, but not as much as as how much education was required, which is why we created the school and we made, like, all these cool ass videos and we we coach this every single week because it's a different concept.
Right? Everyone's teaching. We'll go get a contract and then you wholesale it. Mhmm. This is go go get a deed and a POA is like what, you know, most new people or even experienced people are like, what do you mean get a deed?
Who's talking about?
Steve: Right. You don't
William: get a detail closing if you even know that. Right. You never get the deed if you're signing.
Steve: Right.
William: You're just making an assignment fee. So I think that was a little bit of a different concept is that mindset of, well, how's the seller going to sell me their house for $2? Mhmm. I'm like, it happens seven times a day, my man. Yeah.
Every day because you're you're you're going after the wrong seller. Mhmm. But when you talk, you know, you can't say the wrong thing to the right person.
Steve: Mhmm.
William: When you're talking to the right people that their problem is big enough, that's that's a no brainer because you're just you're not buying the asset. You're buying their problem. Mhmm. And the relief is just take it. Mhmm.
Because I don't wanna deal
Steve: with this. Get me out of here.
William: Yeah. Just get me out of here.
Steve: What, one of the lines I learned, right, in this particular world, which has helped me a lot
William: Yeah.
Steve: Is, Willie, how much are you gonna need for you?
William: Oh, I love that. Right? I say that all the time.
Steve: Right. And he's like, here's how much I need. Okay. And then now I I just buy a subject to all of the problems.
William: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Right? Mhmm. But that's where the money is made is solving the problems.
William: Framing is very important. Yeah. You know, when when a seller just back to your point. When a seller's like, oh, well, I want $30. And I'm like, I want two Ferraris.
Mhmm. Yeah. But what do you need? Mhmm.
Steve: You know? I always tell them I wanna dunk. Yeah. I wanna dunk. Like, you might I'd
William: be able to. I don't know.
Steve: No. Stem cells. I don't
William: know what's
Steve: going on. Not yet. Well, me.
William: Maybe. I don't know.
Steve: I haven't found the right coach for that.
William: Or the
Steve: right Some
William: guru is gonna be like, you know what? I'm gonna help you dunk. They're gonna reach out
Steve: to you. Anyone out there that can help me dunk a basketball, you welcome. Day one, like, tomorrow to be on the
William: show.
Steve: Do anything. Right? I'll make you famous.
William: He will bump every he would bump me off the show and put you on there.
Steve: Yeah. We'll just we'll just move Willie back an episode. Right? And we're gonna put the guy anyone that can help me dunk.
William: If I ever see you dunk, I would've been like,
Steve: goddamn. He did it.
William: I'll dog you.
Steve: Five ten. Oh, it's gonna be tough. I well, the five ten is not the issue. It's it's it's the it's the genetics. Alright.
So, so you said the greatest challenge for a lot of people that are are joining the community is the concept of buying the deed. Yeah. So let's let's dive a little bit deeper into that. Yeah. So because, like, we just think.
Right? If I'm gonna buy a property
William: Yeah.
Steve: I lock up the contract. I go to the title company. They got a clear title. We gotta deal with the mortgages Yeah. The judgments, the assessments, the HOA.
Right?
William: Right. All
Steve: these things.
William: All of it.
Steve: And then we can clear title. Yeah. And then you sign, I sign, money changes hands. Mhmm. Right?
And it's all recorded through the, you know, recorder's office or whatever. Right. And that's when I get the deed. Yep. That's not what you're teaching.
William: Nope. You're getting the deed first thing.
Steve: So explain to someone that this concept was kinda melting in their brain at the moment. Yeah. How are you able to buy a deed? What what does it mean to buy a deed?
William: So, again, I think our industry has done a great job at overcomplicating all this shit. Mhmm. And, of course, the coaches don't want you to know this. But at any given time, anybody who is a property owner Mhmm. With or without a mortgage, contrary to popular belief, can sign a deed and transfer it over to you Right.
For literally $0. Mhmm. Legally, it should be a dollar for consideration.
Steve: I think it's $10 for consideration. At least
William: at least there's a ton now. Yeah. Yeah. I think it varies state to state. But let's call it $10, even a $100.
So you're getting a $300,000 asset, average price in America right now, with debt, without debt, doesn't really matter. But you got it for $100. You never would lose. You will never lose. And period, like ever.
We're going to figure it out. But yeah, it's very simple, man. You prepare the deed. We show you how to do this, by the way, in the community. We have all the templates and everything.
We have videos for the templates and community members will actually sit with you and help you. Right? You prepare the deed, you prepare the POA. We tell you who goes on what doc in detail, And then you schedule a mobile notary or we will schedule it for you or a run remote online notary. They sign.
That's that. And then we another thing I didn't mention, a lot of people don't have the money or don't want to put up the money for the deeds. The three k, let's say. Our average deal is about 3 k for buying. Well, if you don't have it, we will front it.
Right? The only thing is we're going to collect 1.5 x on the back end. Money's not free. I don't know why you thought it was, but it's not right. And sometimes these things have like a sixty, ninety day float period.
But we will front it 100% in any state, by the way. We don't care. So that's another lever that we added to our community because what I wanted to do, watching all the communities and all the education, I was like, dude, there's a lot of barriers here where people mess up, right, like like points of failure. And I was like, well, how can we make this as easy as possible? Well, let's just show them how to do it.
Let's help them do it, the notary. And then if they need the money, let's just fund it too. Right? And then we'll do everything on the back end. Right?
Because, of course, selfishly, we want a deal flow. Mhmm. But people wanna do deals. Right. So if you wanna do that and and I always say this, man.
I would rather own 20% of a watermelon than a 100% of a grape. Mhmm. I see a lot of people in our industry walking around with a handful of grapes. Mhmm. And they look like dipshits.
Mhmm. Right? All because they wanna make a 100% of every deal. Right. Because they think they're cool.
Mhmm. And I know because I've been there. Right? But the day that you open that up, like, I'm doing a thousand deals a year. There's no way that I would do that on my own.
Steve: Right.
William: You know the size of the marketing budget I would need? It's staggering, dude. You and me and everybody, 10 gurus, would need to team up just to do that. And the team would be, like, a 150 people Yeah. Right, just to handle that bandwidth.
So I think this strategy solved a lot of those issues. And I brought my intention into this community, which was how I scaled my business, which was lead with value.
Steve: Yeah.
William: I I started my business by splitting my first five deals fifty fifty with that first mentor. Nothing's changed. Right? And it and it took me very, very far. It's so I think that a community, a true community, can do a lot more damage together.
That's that's a fact.
Steve: And they could do these deals with you. Yeah. And then they learn how to do it. They don't have to keep doing these deals with you.
William: No. I mean, again, we own the lost Mitt company. So and and I and that's a very important distinction. Our lost Mitt company is not open for consulting. Mhmm.
So you will only use our lost Mitt company if we JV.
Steve: You kinda have a bit of a monopoly here. Yeah. I mean, I There's no shame in it.
William: No. I I I don't I don't have any shame in it. This is America, but it's not a it's not a monopoly. I would see it more like if I own the refinery Mhmm. Then I control the price of gas.
Right. Right. And I think it's a very fair deal. I mean, it's ridiculous. I'm giving you half, let's say, or even 40%.
Right? Depending which route you come in on, for for the deal, which, let's be honest, it was worth zero Mhmm. When when you got it. Right? Right.
And and it's twofold even for
Steve: So you're turning the coal in the diamond, and all you're asking for is half.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean,
William: I think that's pretty fair.
Steve: I don't think it's unfair.
William: No. I think it's super I think it's and and and I'm one of the few guys in this industry that's willing to put my money where my mouth is. Literally. I will teach you how to do it. I will help you do it.
My community will help you do it. My team will help you do it, and we'll even fund it for you.
Steve: And you'll pay for it.
William: And we'll pay for it on the back end. I mean, dude, that's like me telling you, I'm gonna teach you how to fix and flip. I'm gonna find the house, and I'm gonna put up the hard money loan. You gotta put up zero.
Steve: Yeah.
William: Say why would you say no?
Steve: Yeah. There's not there's not a person on the planet, I don't think, who doesn't have the money to flip, the contractors and that. It's like, hey. I've got this deal. Let's flip it together.
You do all the work. You fund it. You deal with the contractors, and then you deal with the realtor, and then I get to keep half. I don't think there's anyone that would say no to that as a person sourcing deals today.
William: Absolutely not. Like, you know, not to get biblical, but, you know, you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. You teach a man how to fish, he eats for life. Usually, that person who you taught how to fish is gonna wanna have you over for dinner. Mhmm.
That's the way that I designed this community. I'm like, dude, we're gonna win a lot more together. Yeah. Because I guarantee like, I've paid eight years of dues, right, to get here. All that knowledge is coming into that community.
Right? And and my and my friends. Right? And my and my I mean, bro, my attorney hops on these calls. You wanna talk about probate calls?
I mean, I don't know any other guru or whatever that has their attorney or their tax strategist or the Locksmith guys. I mean, they're on these calls. You can drill them with questions. So I I made the community very disruptive for lack of a better term because I didn't see that in the marketplace. Yeah.
Even when we do live events, which we just had, was very intimate. We bring these people there.
Steve: Yeah.
William: And it's a no b s thing. It's like, dude, ask whatever freaking question you want. There's never gonna be anything. We're like, oh, we can't teach you that because you need to be in our mastermind. Mhmm.
The bullshit. Yeah. We'll teach you right here. Most of them are not gonna do anything with it. That's just the reality.
Steve: It's all there. So, again, you guys wanna check it out? Check out the link in the description or click on or scan the QR code right here on the screen. You mentioned something else. Yeah.
Surplus. We didn't really talk about that. Uh-huh. Right? And so, like, again, we're going through all these different creative strategies that we don't really talk a lot about.
William: Mhmm. Right?
Steve: It's kinda low key. Yeah. So surplus. Surplus is great. What's surplus?
William: So a surplus and, again, this varies state by state. But, basically, a surplus is when I'm just gonna make up numbers. Mhmm. But let's say I bought a deed to a property with a POA and an assignment of surplus is is the form that we would use. Let's say that what's owed on the property is a 100,000 just for simple numbers, and the property's worth $2.50.
Mhmm. Let's say. It needs work, obviously. Right? It's got issues.
But it goes to tax auction or foreclosure auction, and it sells at auction for $1.60. Mhmm. An auction buyer, a third party buyer buys it for $1.60. Well, what happens between the spread of the 100 to the $1.60? You know that it goes into a state fund.
Steve: It's supposed to it's supposed to go
William: To the seller.
Steve: To the homeowner Mhmm. In theory. In theory.
William: Most people don't even know that that law exists. One, two, you get the assignment of surplus, and I think you're rightfully entitled to it because you resolved all the shit show Mhmm. That was there before and you identify the opportunity. You would collect we would collect the $60 Mhmm. And we would split that with our JV.
Yeah. So that's like doing a nice wholesale or a nice flip with no hammer. Mhmm. That's just paperwork. Yeah.
But that's an and and by the way, it's funny. For anybody watching, it's like, well, this guy there's attorney firms, literally across the country that that's all they do Yeah. Is market to homeowners that are going to auction Mhmm. And they say, well, sign this assignment surplus, and we'll take 40% of your surplus. Mhmm.
But we'll find it for you. Yeah. That's the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.
I think assignment to surpluses are great.
Steve: Yeah. Excess proceeds, I think, is another way to Correct. To call it. And there are guys that teach it. But it's funny.
I hear people like, I see, like, these ads on Facebook every once in a while. Right? Like, we we teach you how to do excess proceeds. Yep. I don't really hear anyone talking about actually doing
William: it. Yeah. Not a lot of guys are actually doing
Steve: it. And not to say that it's not happening. It's just for whatever reason, it's pretty quiet. Right?
William: It is. I mean I
Steve: mean, I hear more people talking about doing notes than I hear about people doing excess proceeds.
William: Dude, real estate has, like, 40 different things that you can, you know, dive into, like, just off the top of our head, like, real residential. Mhmm. But, like, some of these things, like like, the reverse flip thing, that's like a niche within a niche within a niche.
Steve: Really? Right?
William: Yeah. It really is. I mean, I'll be honest with you. I I designed it that way because it was so many different deals with so many different patterns, with so many different scenarios, so many different lessons. And I'm like, man, we just package this thing up.
Mhmm. But the common denominator was buy the deed, get the POA. Yeah. And then we'll figure it out. So the assignment of surplus is is a real niche.
Like, that's like a one thing, but we've both heard the the riches are in the niches. Mhmm. They really are. You know? And I've ran a wide model, you know, meeting, yeah, I'll market to everybody with equity in, you know, 2021, and it's great, but it's not sustainable.
One. Two, it's I'd rather just do one thing, like I said, going back to the beginning, and do it the best. Yeah. You're gonna always make more money that way.
Steve: Yeah. Perfect. So, again, guys, if you wanna check out, reverse flipping, go to, well, click on the link, in the description or scan the QR code, and then, that you guys can connect with Willie. I this is fascinating. It's, it's pretty cool to hear this resurface because, again, like, I learned all about this four years ago.
Yeah. And then, like, the market went crazy and, like, it didn't really matter as much anymore.
William: We were doing it through that whole time. But, like Yeah. Because of equity.
Steve: It was easy money. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
But now is the time where, like, okay. Like, the guys that that are are what's the word I'm looking for? Actual investors. Well, that know all of the different ways. Right?
Because, like, I love talking to, like, the older guys. Yeah.
William: They know.
Steve: Because they know, like, you can break up this deal in seven different ways. Like, alright. Like, Willie, you get depreciation. I get the depreciation. You get the cash flow.
William: Mhmm. Right?
Steve: Like, there's just all these different ways.
William: 100%. Right?
Steve: Yeah. And then, like, you're making the payments.
William: It's just Yeah. Yeah. No. Listen. There's a place especially the bigger the deal.
Right? But Yeah. The more complex the deal, the better it is on the back end. That's just been my theory, and I've proven that theory hundreds of times at this point. People in our community are proving that theory.
They're like, dude, I would have never in a million. And I'm and it's funny to watch them. They're like, this was dead in my CRM for, like, six months. Mhmm. And I'm like, yeah.
And you just bought the deed for $1,500. And how does that feel? Yeah. Hey. I can't believe it.
I'm like, dude, I'm I'm telling you because no one's teaching it. Yeah. But I I I'll say this going back to the marketplace, where we're at in the market right now, like, the craziness that's happened in the last four years or so. This strategy, and you can quote me on video, this strategy will explode Mhmm.
Steve: In
William: the next two years. There's no doubt because the chickens will come home to roost Mhmm. On what happened from 2020 to now. Yeah. You know, we're already seeing it with interest rates.
Dude, we just bought one the other day, I think, like, two or three days ago. A a guy in our community that we're JV on. 2023 Build Lennar Home, Land O'Lakes, Florida. $2,500. That's a free house.
Mhmm. And it's a beautiful vintage property that a hedge fund would take from us at 110¢ on the dollar. Mhmm. We're not gonna do that. We're gonna keep
Steve: it. Right.
William: But you're seeing this. That loan was ten months old. Mhmm. And the person's defaulting. It's a 6% interest loan.
Right. So you're seeing it on new properties, old properties, shipbox properties, clean properties. A lot of these don't make any mistake about it. Some of these have equity. You know, a lot of these look decent, meaning we could do a reverse flip paint patch store right back on the MLS.
We have one like that in Miami, which is like 110, 120, something like that, which was a listed short sale. It was sitting on the market for four months. Mhmm. And the realtor said, and I quote, we already got an approval and it doesn't work. We went back, got it reapproved at 100 k less.
Steve: Yeah.
William: Riddle me that.
Steve: That's incredible. Yeah. Perfect. What, what are some last thoughts you wanna leave all the listeners with?
William: I always do this question, and it's good because it makes me ponder. If you're not in the game, I think you should definitely get in the game. Mhmm. If I could go back, I might be biased. But if I could go back to 2017, and I would have just learned this, if reverse flipping would have existed, I would have cut all the bullshit out of the wholesaler.
I would have done all that, and I I would have been a tactician from day one. Mhmm. I would have learned to solve a bigger problem. And that's what I'm that's what I'm saying to your community. Like, the twenty twenty percent of watermelon versus a 100% of a grape, that's a metaphor to life for me.
And that's made me more successful beyond my wildest dreams. I think it's hilarious when I run into people that are hoarding every single penny, and they won't they don't see the collaboration. You know? Yeah. But but if you wanna summarize it to one quote, I'll summarize it to you in this.
Amateurs compete, professionals collaborate. That's it.
Steve: There you go. Yeah. If someone wants to connect with you, how's the best way for them to to do that?
William: With me personally? Mhmm. So willy numbers, on Instagram, that's my heaviest platform. It's willy numbers with a y, on every single platform. The reverse flipping link that you're gonna put.
Mhmm. Would you want me to say it?
Steve: Or we'll we'll we'll we'll post it. Perfect.
William: Yeah. That's the best way to connect with the reverse flip community. Mhmm. Like, everything that we're talking with the school, right, and all that stuff. But Instagram is my best platform.
Willynumbers.com is also my, like, the main page. But I I personally communicate on my Instagram. Yeah. Don't be blowing me up with random stuff. Don't be that guy.
We're asking for my number.
Steve: Yeah. Alright. Perfect. Well, thank you so much.
William: Thank you.
Steve: Appreciate it. Good catching up as always.
William: Likewise. Thank you
Steve: guys for watching. I'll see you guys next time.
William: Thank you,
Steve: guys.
