Steve Trang joins Ian Ross to discuss advanced sales tactics including how to identify emotional vs. logical language from prospects, techniques for shifting conversations from analytical to emotional decision-making, and strategic approaches to closing deals without appearing pushy.
Replace 'What do you need to think about?' with 'What do you feel unsure about?' to shift prospects from logical to emotional processing
When prospects use emotional language like 'I feel rushed,' they're closer to making a decision than those using analytical language like 'It sounds good'
Use either-or positioning by presenting the less desirable option first, then your preferred solution second, as people naturally gravitate toward the last option presented
1:23:07Casey Ryan from We Buy Any House reveals how he generated $6 million in profit with just 12 employees by leveraging AI automation, data enrichment, and strategic focus. He shares his journey building custom AI tools for call analysis, lead scoring, and CRM automation, plus why he's selling his rental property portfolio to focus on his core wholesaling business.
1:12:00James Harkless of Property Leads shares how his company generates high-quality motivated seller leads for real estate investors, with 1 in 4 homeowners reaching out before selling. He discusses his journey from construction to building a successful pay-per-lead business, innovative features like live transfers, and quality control methods that achieve 25% title transfer rates.
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Ask 'How are you feeling about all this?' as a pattern interrupt to make prospects look inward and start closing themselves
Treat taking payment and next steps as normal process rather than a big deal - your energy around these moments determines prospect resistance
”“I went through life just assuming everyone's gonna say yes to me. Now that doesn't mean assuming you're gonna get every single sale. It's just my job to get a yes or no. If this person is closable, I will close.”
”“If you make a big deal, it's a big freaking deal. If this is just part of the process, people go along with it.”
”“Every time we ask a good question, we're casting a spell. And recapping is refilling the mana bar.”
”“People pay more for identity than utility. If you can include identity either in feeling congruent with who they feel they are right now or in pursuit of who they wanna be, they're willing to pay way more.”
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Ian Ross: Lance Armstrong had this language is that I went through life just assuming everyone's gonna say yes to me. Now that doesn't mean assuming you're gonna get every single sale. It's just my job to get a yes or no. If this person is closable, I will close. I think that every single time Mhmm.
Even if I'm hurting financially in that moment, I embody that at all times. It actually gets me better results because you are inherently telling and appealing if you assume things are gonna work out and kind of convey that need. I'm just telling sales people, just embody it as best you can regardless of your pipeline. You'll actually get better results anyway. Welcome, everyone, to the Close More Sales podcast.
Today, I have with me, a mentor, someone I'm sure everyone in my audience knows. The very first guest I interviewed on this show, most of the show has been sort of talking head, talking about sales stuff. I wanna get to more interview conversational formats to discuss stuff in the future. So here with me is Steve Trang, host of the Disruptors podcast, real estate investor, co owner of a bank, shiny object syndrome entrepreneur, father, husband, the second best sales trainer in the world, and most importantly of all, trumping all that, my friend. Before I even introduce Steve in terms of asking him to speak himself, why listen to the show?
What's the point of it all anyway? The purpose of this show is to inspire sales professionals and entrepreneurs to push themselves to grow, achieve unimaginable success without burning out, and ultimately transform their lives. I'm Ian Ross. I am obsessed with all things sales. I work with teams across the world at this point to make more money by asking better questions.
I believe that sales is the lowest barrier with the highest possible ceiling for entry towards financial freedom. And so it's anyone who can have a sales role, if you can have conversations where how well you speak determines how much money you can make. You're in a sales role. If you'd like to get better at what you do, that's what this podcast is for. So if you'd enjoy this show, drop us a like, subscribe on YouTube, do all that jazz that all the young kids say.
Leave a review where you listen to podcasts, and also share this episode with others to quote someone I know so we can all grow together. Steve, welcome to the Close More Sales podcast.
Steve Trang: Thank you. Do I get at least, like, a you know, is it they call it cryon? Was it the very bottom lower third? Is it second goat?
Ian: Yeah. The second greatest of
Steve: all time. Goat.
Ian: Yeah. Thank you. Everyone likes to celebrate second or third place, so it's important for sure. So what I esteemed. What I have to go over today, specifically, something I thought would be of interest to my audience, which I basically wanted to discuss with you advanced sales tactics.
Mhmm. I wanted to go over some stuff that I'm sure you've heard me talk about or had other people ask you in detail, but in a way where we can openly discuss it, you can critique it, you can add your own color to it, you can say how you think about things differently. I think that would be useful to my audience.
Steve: Yeah. And then this is kinda conversations that you and I actually have. Yeah. Once, twice, maybe three times a week. Well, hey.
I'm thinking about this. Hey. I read this. Hey. I'm trying this.
And no one else really gets privy to to hear those conversations.
Ian: It's part of the reason I wanted to do this podcast with you is because I'm aware that people who maybe not as much obsessed with sales and the nuance of language as me Mhmm. Because I'm a special being in that sense Yeah. But people who are trying to get better, trying to improve, taking their sales skills and the language they use to get someone to wanna take action seriously, I know the stuff we talk about is advanced and in-depth, and it would probably be valuable for people to listen to. So that was the goal of going over the podcast here today. So, for the audience, if you'd like to make sure you can say everything we say on a follow-up call so you never have to say, I'm just following up or I'm just checking in ever again.
We have a template we give to you completely for free. Text follow-up, that's two words, to 33777. So that's a key point for those of you listening. So what I wanna get into what we'll cover today, Steve, I I just wanna go through a list of ideas, tactics, thought process around sales conversations, and get your take on it and get some discussion back and forth. The first thing I wanted to talk about is something that's relatively new, not to necessarily how we think about sales, being aware that it's an emotional drive rather than a logical one, but a nuance in how precise we are in communicating, that's the people we train.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: Meaning, this idea of the language that your prospect gives you, I think, is an indicator of how emotional they are. Yeah. In that, it goes even just beyond, like, yeah. I feel sad or I feel rushed. It's like, if they're using certain types of language, it dictates that they're still in the logical neocortex part of their brain Mhmm.
As opposed to other language, which dictates they've now switched to the limbic system, which is where emotions are processed and where decisions are made. Right. So one of my favorite things I wanted to push back on right away, because I've seen this with so many other sales trainers, is when a prospect says, I need to think about it, which is probably one of the most common objections in all of sales. Yeah. Especially, I probably have good salespeople because that's they don't even wanna get told no.
Steve: So they
Ian: get told that let me think about it. Right. So many people train on this idea of what do you have to think about. Mhmm. And what I have realized is that that is a mistake because you're still using the think about language, which is still activating the logical part of the brain rather than what do you still feel unsure about.
Mhmm. So I just wanted to sort of get your take before we even dive deeper into that on that concept.
Steve: So I heard you talk about this a little bit last week. Right? You were saying, like, someone giving an objection, or, like, this doesn't feel right or this feels like, you know, maybe the price doesn't make sense. It's a lot closer that someone's agreeing agreeable in but using the word think. And I thought that was a really interesting
Ian: Yes.
Steve: Nuance. Right? Because, like, we're closer to the finish line if we're at least hearing emotional words versus reasoning words. So, yeah, I do think, you know, because that's something I've said before. I was like, okay.
Well, what what exactly do you need to think about?
Ian: Right.
Steve: And for me, I would use that, I guess, looking now, looking back, kinda like a crutch because whatever they said, now we can still at least keep the conversation going and find something to pull on to get us emotional. But this right here is a shortcut. It just goes straight into, like, well, what is it that you feel unsure about? Now we can bring them back into the part of the brain that is more emotional.
Ian: Yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting because I I'm always trying to use the same type of language that the prospects are using to me back at them.
Steve: Exactly.
Ian: So it makes it I'm not saying it's crazy to say, if a prospect says, let me think about it, you respond, what do you need to think about? Because you're using the same words back.
Steve: You are using the same words. But, also, most other salespeople are using the same words
Ian: True.
Steve: Which then raises sales resistance. Yeah. Because you're saying the same thing everyone else is saying. Right? Because, you know, there's we have a philosophy using frameworks.
There are a lot of sales trainers, salespeople that believe in using, you know, the book of magic words. And so if you say, like, okay. Well, what exactly do you need to think about? You run the risk of triggering them having a bad sales experience, buying a car, buying something else where the salesperson said that. Now they're they're they're having these negative emotions.
They they might not even know why. Yeah. But it's coming up.
Ian: Very true. Yeah. So I actually don't think I've gone over this specifically for this audience yet. Mhmm. So I should probably even make clear exactly the point of what you brought up Yeah.
Which is that this idea that if a prospect says, I feel rushed or I feel like that price is a little too high, it shows they're actually closer to the sale, then I think that sounds good. Those numbers make sense. Yeah. It all sounds pretty okay. Even if that it it sounds like the
Steve: They sound more agreeable.
Ian: They sound more agreeable to what you're saying. They're revealing being farther from making the decision. Yeah. So they are closer to the yes. They are also closer to the no.
There's a distinction that they are still closer to a no. But, also, so many salespeople don't actually want to they they know this concept in theory, but they don't execute on this concept, which is that a no is the second best answer. Mhmm. So many salespeople would rather I
Steve: need to
Ian: think it over than the no. Even though the logical part of their brain, they can pair it that belief, but they have such happy ears when they hear it. I need to think it over, they get excited.
Steve: Well, I mean, I think the the the human ego, like, as good as anyone is, we still have elements of, like, rejection still hurts. It's just how little or how much it hurts depending on how strong your ego is.
Ian: Right? Sure.
Steve: Or you could be a person who is newer and, you know, you're two two months into this. Like, every no is extremely painful. Right. And so you'd rather take I need to think about it. Even though we all know that the no has a greater chance of turning into a yes, that I need to think about it turning to a yes.
If you're newer, that it's so heavy that that no that you get early in your career.
Ian: It's also just it's true that the no is also probably closer to a yes because of the decision. It's also just being efficient with your time on top of all that. Like, to make sure you're spending your time appropriately rather than getting stuck in the endless follow-up game, crossing your fingers that they'll change their mind later, and you can never get a hold of them again.
Steve: But I think that goes back to experience.
Ian: True. Yeah.
Steve: Right? And not everyone I mean, if you're on your own doing this, like, that's kinda where I was for a long time. Like, I had a mentor, but, you know, he was doing his thing. I didn't realize that I was wasting so much time. Right?
But then as you get further along, you know, whether you're networking, you're watching this podcast, you're in a coaching program, you start realizing, oh my god. I am losing so much time Right. On this prospect. So
Ian: I try and reiterate that point as much as possible, which is that because I am highly aware of this now that I have two kids under two as well. It becomes more clear than ever. My time was not precious when I was 24. Mhmm.
Steve: Right? Yeah.
Ian: Now how I spend my time really matters because I've got other ways I could spend it besides work. So every second wasted Mhmm. On something that didn't have a chance to return on investment for that time infuriates me. Like, even to this point, I mean, the we talk about the idea of people don't wanna have a hit to their ego. I was actually quite upset yesterday, just yesterday, and it bothered me all night.
I had to go for a long walk. I walked for, like, six miles last night because it was the first I had had two sales appointments with people who I felt were qualified like, who objectively seemed qualified, and I didn't get either one across the line. Because, statistically, my close rate is over 50%. It drove me nuts that I couldn't get either of them across the line. Even though both of them gave me very agreeable like, one of them has a follow-up time within a couple days or has a follow-up time longer than that.
Like, everyone's like, I need to get the money together. I wanna do this. But I've done this enough now. To me, that is more annoying than, no. I don't want this.
I would rather, no. I don't want this or some aspect of this process. Cross it off.
Speaker 2: Do you
Ian: think I just cross it off? Yeah. To me, that's a failure, and I still have to spend more time even though statistically I might still get it. Mhmm. I'd rather than know.
I don't know. It's a
Steve: Well, I think that might be as a salesperson because there's multiple different personality profiles. There's salespeople that are really good with relationships. There's salespeople that are really good at hunting. Yeah. You might just be more geared towards the hunting, and now you're, like, irritated that you need to go back and, like, grab some more ammo or some more arrows or whatever.
I
Ian: got I don't need more. I statistically, I should have gotten one of those guys. That's what's obsessed me.
Steve: You know, but we're talking about, like, losing time. One of the things that, a concept that I've been teaching recently, you know, we had our last live event in December. So I put the slide together because I noticed in doing some call reviews, with, you know, some other teams that we're training, they're having conversations with sell with with prospects that are making zero progress. Right. And I had to emphasize to them, even if you're having a conversation prospect where you're making zero progress is lost time.
Right? If we're not increasing motivation with every single question, with every single simple statement, with every label, whatever, we're not increasing the likelihood of a sale. That's also wasting time.
Ian: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've I've there's either two directions I think we're either going when I'm talking in a context of a sales conversation. I'm either increasing motivation moving towards the sale, or I am trying to disqualify you so I can talk to someone who I can do that with. It's it's it's so I'm okay with the no.
I really am. It doesn't but it's the stagnant setup of, like, I don't we're not making progress at all Mhmm. Is an incredible waste of time because I I wanna be efficient. We all have the same hours in a week. Like, there's no more time in a week.
I have less technically now than I did when I was single and a and a young man. So as a result, I have to be more efficient. So the idea of wasted time bothers me to a a pretty triggering degree. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So this leads me into the the next one, which is how to if they are stuck in that thinking part of the brain, the neocortex, how can we shift them to the emotional? And we gave an example here, which is just simply you using that language, but it depending on where you are in the sale, closer to the end, tensions higher because people are know you're gonna push for the close. Or sometimes at the start, when you haven't built enough rapport and demonstrated trust, it can be hard for some salespeople to immediately do that. What is what's your thought on that before I go into what I have here?
Steve: I mean, one of my hacks or is that a hack? But just ask them how are you feeling about all this? You know? Like, because we we have our pain questions and this and that. How do you feel?
But, one of the things that I've done I've noticed when I'm recruiting, is someone I want, I'll just ask them, hey. You know? Kinda curious. Like, how are you feeling about what we're talking about right now? Yeah.
And just asking that question, they look inward and start analyzing how they're feeling about it. And immediately, they start closing themselves.
Ian: Yeah. So you're doing a you're doing a pattern interrupt to make them look inward Mhmm. In a way to actually express the feelings currently.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. It's point blank. I mean, it's really as direct as you can be. Yeah.
But I have found it to be effective. And it's just like again, like, we're having conversations. It's like, hey. I'm just curious. Right?
Ian: It's I like that very much. What I was coming up with was much the same way you've got the hold on. Let me write that down, way to get someone back on track. Mine is a little bit more, there's a little bit more gymnastics Mhmm. Involved in getting the getting someone across the line, which is works for me, but I'm aware it can be harder to train and teach other people to do.
So what I was focusing on was this idea of a question like that Mhmm. Rather than open ended, intentionally closed off Mhmm. To make it easier to answer. So because I closed off questions because they're easier to lie to, which is why we don't wanna be in pursuit of them, means they're also easier to answer.
Steve: Yeah.
Ian: So I would use something, like, say the lines of, like, I just wanna make sure is this something that you're even feeling would make sense for you based on everything we've talked about so far? And if they give me a yes or I mean, if they give me a no, that's that that's a pretty clear sign to start towards a disqualification Mhmm. Depending on where we are in the process. But if I get a yes, I then ask an open ended question, which would be, how so? Or can you tell me more about that?
Or depending on what their answer is, just a mirror. So I have this idea of, like, intentionally closing off with a yes, no question using feel oriented language around an emotion
Speaker: Mhmm.
Ian: And then asking for clarity in one of three ways, probably in order of what would be most impactful. It would just be the mirror first. Next, what I call lock on question. So when you say it feels good, could you tell me more about that? Or third, just how so?
Mhmm. Just just how so is one of my favorite universe of all times.
Steve: So universal. So many applications.
Ian: Yeah. So whenever I so because I got asked the question when I was saying that if they're using emotional language, it shows they're closer to the sale. I asked a great question on the training I did, which was, so if I ask, how would you feel if six months from now this weight was lifted off your shoulders and where you wanted to be? And they answer, I feel good. Mhmm.
Are they ready to move forward? And I said, no. It shows you're in rapport because they're using your language back. Mhmm. But just that quick they're just responding with your language.
It doesn't it didn't come out of them that they chose emotional language. They just basically parroted your words, which showed your rapport. So then I would go, feel good, or how so? Or when you say you feel good, could you tell me more about that? Something about that to get them to then verbalize, which is you kinda in this case, you're kinda shortcutting it with just how you're feeling right now.
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Interesting. Okay.
Yeah. I just wanted to sort of talk about that, but it's it's a really for those listening, it is a really powerful concept to understand. I'm kind of almost calling it like the hidden sales matrix of, like, we have a sales process we're moving someone through, the hidden matrix that if you can see you can see it, but everyone else can't. Mhmm. Like, Neo at the end of the matrix realizing he can see the code, which is that if they are using emotional language or vivid imagery around that language, chances are they are closer to making a decision Mhmm.
Than if they are saying something that seems agreeable but sounds detached or analytical. Right. So I I really like this differentiation concept because I have not actually heard
Steve: this talked about. I've never heard this anywhere
Ian: else in sales. Else in sales.
Steve: Yeah. We have these conversations in the hallways. Yeah. It's weird, but we love it. We geek on it.
Ian: This is it's I mean, it gets me excited every day. This is what I geek out on. Yeah. Okay. The next thing I wanted to go into, unless you had any further thoughts or or anything to say about that.
Steve: I mean, I'm thinking about I'll probably do this, like, maybe once a month or something like that. So, you know, there's something else that actually had an epiphany yesterday Sure. In a different coaching call. You don't want me to just Yeah. Go ahead.
And it kinda goes into elements of saving time. There was a person they they were talking to a guy. This is a call review yesterday. They were talking to a prospect who is selling the house because his mom's house is his mom passed. Right?
And they're like, oh, man. Like, I'm so sorry to hear about that. Like, what's going on? Like, what happened? You know?
All this other stuff. And I commended them for being more human than me. Right? Like, hey. That's great.
You're demonstrating empathy and sympathy about the situation. But in my opinion, and this is just an opinion. Right? This is not like this is the way it is. Just my belief is that if we're talking about pains we can't solve, then we're spending time on pain that's killing our appointment.
Right? So, like, you can't bring her mom you can't bring his mom back to life.
Ian: Right.
Steve: We could talk about, like, how his his mom passing has left him with a situation with the house, and he has to deal with this. He has to deal with the funeral. He has to deal with, like, the siblings. And it's like, let's talk about all that stuff. Alright?
And, like and we could spend thirty seconds, like, man, I'm so sorry. You know? Like, I'm I'm it must be awful. I can't imagine. Like, do all those things.
But then, like, having further conversation on how much you miss your mom was like, we can't fix that.
Ian: Right.
Steve: Yeah. So, like, you're losing time on this call.
Ian: I completely agree, and I I I had never thought that spending time on that pain is hurting the sale. I just, like, viewed as stagnation. Right. Which we talked about at the start is kinda losing the sale.
Steve: Losing time
Ian: is the worst because you're losing time. Yeah. It's because I this gets brought up, it was a I was talking to someone who's a coach, and an early script she paid a ton of money for to get someone to sign up for her her, like, executive coaching, had a like, they said, here's gather all the pain they're in. Mhmm. And it was just gather as much pain as possible.
Just nonstop pain because pain is a drives urgency and drives emotions. Right? It's I
Steve: mean, there's books that say fine pain. Right. And then that's it.
Ian: But it didn't make it clear. Like, you don't need to as much pain as possible. I actually think you only really need three pain points at most as long as, like, selling to you if it's an asset or buying from you if you're selling something solves that pain. Right. You don't and you don't really need more than three Mhmm.
Because you can go deeper into the implications of any pain that they bring up. But as long as you actually solve it, that's the right pain to bring up. So it's
Steve: like Yeah.
Ian: The there's not enough focus on that idea, which is, to be clear, the very reason people pay a high price for things is the idea of understanding the value they get. Verbalizing the pain you solve is the easiest way Mhmm. In a closing question or to push someone towards actually taking action to demonstrate the value because it actually solves these things.
Steve: Right.
Ian: Right. It not only are you spending time on the wrong topic, which wastes time if you're not talking about pain you can solve, talking about pain you solve is enhancing your value when you're actually trying to go for the close. Right. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. But once you have a product that you bring someone back to life, then let's talk about how much you miss them.
Ian: True. That. Yeah. Of course.
Steve: Yes. Once we have that, we're we're here.
Ian: Selling is that I I don't think we need to do podcast anymore. We can sell the elixir that brings people back from the dead. So, yeah, the next speaking of elixir, the next, thing I wanted to bring up for you is, like, it's an imagery that you've pushed back on when I brought it up, as it was grimaced out at a a two day event, Mhmm. Which is this idea of in the flow of a conversation, every time you ask a question, because it takes can take effort for that person to answer, it's almost like casting a spell. Someone's like, ah, yeah.
I used a spell. Mhmm. And this nuance of when you recap back Mhmm. What you just heard in a way of, like, your understanding of what's important to the what they say with, like, like, an actual summary, how they feel or felt, or also some aspect of their identity, which is the more nuanced thing. If you can say that back in the recap, it's almost like taking a mana potion to be able to cast more spells.
Yeah. So this is a another concept that is uniquely mine that I've talked about in the sales conversation. I hadn't brought up heard brought up anywhere. What are your thoughts on other than the way it's conveyed, seems slightly nerdy, though it sales is currently mostly a male profession, and most males of the generation in sales have probably played a video game at some point. Seems I thought it was a smart analogy.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker: I'm filming this video for the man himself, mister Ian Ross. The guy crushes. The guy's the best person in sales I've ever seen. I've invested elsewhere and haven't got the same results. I've gone from being a seller making 5 k a month to being a hybrid role making 11 k a month to now be four months down the line from 5 k to on a closing opportunity, inbound, full calendar with the best opportunity, the best offer in my space.
OTE is around 20 k a month from month two. So I've gone from 5 k to 20 k. If that's not a return on your investment, I don't know what it is, man. If you're a salesperson, you don't invest in sales training, you're gonna get left behind because your job is to be better at sales, and sales training directly makes you more money. My name is Lance McCann.
I've recently switched in sessions with Ian Ross. Those conversations with Ian has made me $50,000 in the past two deals that I've had. I was able to renegotiate, go back and renegotiate the original purchase price on one deal, and I'd say $40,000, and I got another $10,000 off by the deal. It's called me any given chance. You won't be ready.
Ian: If you like what you just heard and you'd like to have similar types of results, similar success, text closed, c l o s e, to 33777, and we'll see if you qualify to join Advanced Sales Mastery. We are taking people from good to great. Yeah.
Steve: I mean, I think so the idea is every time we ask a good question Yeah. We're casting a spell. Yeah. And then recapping is refilling the manor bar.
Ian: Right.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think I think it makes a lot of sense. Particularly, you know, you and I are, going pretty hard into, Milton Erickson. Right. Right?
And and everything he's talking about as far as hypnotic and inducing trances. Right? So I think, like, this is something that requires, the the question is not necessarily trans inducing, but we're we're literally casting something onto them that's forcing them, requiring them to take a moment to think about and, again, evaluate what's going on here. And it takes energy from them. But, yeah, I think the, giving us the risky run of asking a question, asking a question, asking a question without recapping, without refilling the manor bar
Ian: Yeah.
Steve: I think is a great point because we need to asking a question for sake of asking question to gather more intel is fantastic. I don't think that's really tough enough either. But the recapping to refill the matter bar in that we're building trust, I don't really hear anyone really talk that about that as much either, even less so. Right. And I think that the part we're recapping is why they trust us.
Ian: Right. Exactly.
Steve: So me asking quality questions demonstrates to you I'm a professional. I know what I'm doing. I'm competent. Right? Me recapping demonstrates to you is, like, he gets me, and now I feel good that he is qualified to help me.
So it's not just you're professional, which is step one. But step two, he's he's the professional for me.
Ian: Right. Yeah. Exact it's they go hand in hand. I demonstrate my expertise by how good my questions are. Mhmm.
And I demonstrate I understand you as the prospect Mhmm. When I recap back what you said. You brought up the Bolton Ericsson. I actually would think most of the time I'm actually doing anything sort of translate is actually in the recap rather than the question, which is interesting. So it's like, I'm I'm almost it's it sounds deeply manipulative if I just say outright rather than demonstrating it.
But if I am able to ask two or three great questions in a row and then recap my understanding back in a way that I'm able to now, it also starts to color the way the prospect is going to answer further questions.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: It goes hand in hand. It's it's like I'm basically putting them in a trance Mhmm. In what I say back, and then that helps guide like, incrementally, not suddenly as if I was waving something in front of them Mhmm. In hypnosis, but it starts to our brainwaves are probably operating on the same level. We're starting to connect deeper, and they start they feel like they trust me, and they're just in the moment.
They can lose track of time. Yeah. They start to feel emotional. Like, I tend not very often, and it does bother me when it happens because it's rare, have trouble having someone using emotional language at the end of the sale. And part of that is because I'm always throwing recapping back in Mhmm.
That says, you probably feel like I've been thinking about this for a while. I know I need to take action on this, but you still feel like what you invested before I didn't get you the results you wanted. And the way I just did that, like, they're really responding to, yeah. I didn't get results I wanted. That's right.
They're giving me a
Steve: that's right.
Ian: But I've also just included emotional language Mhmm. In turn in the recap, you feel like. Yeah. So they're already thinking I do feel that way rather than I think like that. Mhmm.
And then even though I know know I need to take action on that, I'm always burying little things like that that just completely is filling up their subconscious, but their conscious brain isn't even
Steve: Right. Completely missed it.
Ian: Yeah. They completely missed it. They're just going, yeah. That's right. I invested.
Didn't get those results. And I always say, doing that one time doesn't win you the sale. Doing that consistently, incrementally over forty five minutes is very, very powerful. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, this, the ability to have them feel like you get them is we're talking about a high ticket sale, whether you're selling a high ticket product, service
Ian: Yep.
Steve: Buying someone's house, any of these things, it's a large dollar transaction. And if they're not feeling like you get them, which is kinda like an identity sale, it's gonna be a lot harder for them to pull that trigger, sign the contract to work
Speaker: with you.
Steve: Right.
Ian: Yeah. And it's I mean, it always come it comes back to one of the most important concepts in neurolinguistics programming, which is mostly influenced a tremendous amount by Milton Erickson's techniques is this idea that people pay more for identity than utility. Mhmm. And so if you can include identity either in feeling congruent with who they feel they are right now or in pursuit of who they wanna be Mhmm. They're willing to pay way more for that identity than simply to tell you what they get.
And you we cover a lot of this in our training anyway if we talk about people aren't living in in the cheapest house or driving the cheapest car, like, wearing the cheapest clothes. There's always an aspect I identity in everything they do. In fact, this got brought up yesterday. I said to someone because he was like, I don't feel like that's I wanna I know you're that's true, but I don't feel like that's true for me, so part of me wants to fight that. I brought up, like, part of the reason you fight that is because you have an identity of someone who prioritizes utility Mhmm.
Over identity. And you feel pride in being the person doing that. And he burst out laughing. You're absolutely right. My identity is that it's so important for me to not care about identity Mhmm.
That I care more about utility. He realized I was right and not calling that. Like, in a way, he would almost pay more to stay congruent with that identity even if it's it costs him in certain ways Yeah. Because he has to have that identity.
Steve: It's like the iPhone user. Right? Like, we we have to pay to be, out of was it a a nonconformist?
Ian: Right.
Steve: We'll pay more to be a nonconformist even though everyone's doing it. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Cool.
Okay.
Ian: The next one I got is something that's that's very recently I talked about, I think, just just last week. And I think we touched on this in our conversation a little bit, maybe even just yesterday, which is this idea of this you can present information in, like, an either or, and the order with which you do that matters.
Steve: Yeah.
Ian: So for the example, to have this make sense for the audience, we were talking about if we were trying to because most of Steve's training is currently focused on people who are acquiring properties at a discount. We're using that context a lot here at mine as well, honestly. So that focus would be if someone's saying, I might go with my sister who's a real estate agent. I was have I was coaching people who were saying they were they were using language like, oh, if at that price, we're not gonna be a fit for you. But we I can recommend
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: A different agent or, oh, yeah. If if you're going with your sister as a real estate agent, like like, I I I can't I can't do it with a price she could do, but, yeah, you could go do that. Mhmm. And I thought it was really important to talk about basically saying the same thing. Mhmm.
So I'm considering an agent or I'm considering this higher price Mhmm. And say, you can get that price or you should go with your sister first and then your differentiation afterwards. By starting with the positive, you don't start with denying or giving them a no, but you then present yourself as an alternative. And you had a interesting perspective on this.
Steve: Yeah. So because you brought this up, and I was like, I I was kinda confused at first when you brought it up. Right? Because, like, what I'll say is entirely dependent on what I'm given in this scenario. Right.
Right? Like, if they're saying, like, well, I want as much money as possible, then then my default is, like, great. Go get as much money as possible. Like, don't let me get in the way. Right?
Like, you got the time, the money, energy. You got a contractor into your designer real estate. Go for it. Right? So, like, that's kind of the direction Al goes.
Like, you deserve to get as much money as possible. Like, don't let me get in the way of that. And they're like, but I don't have the time. My energy is like, oh, well then, you know, we're generally not plan a. I mean, I even maybe even plan b.
Like, we're kind of insurance policy. We're the people that homeowners call when they need their household
Ian: now. Right?
Steve: But I don't mention the price. I just say, like, that's that's the consequence. Right? So that's one scenario. One of the situations like, hey.
Look. I appreciate you coming over. I appreciate you talking about this, but I got a realtor that's you know, I got a brother-in-law as a realtor. Then I wouldn't necessarily go with, like, you know, you should get the most price. I would just say, oh, he got a brother-in-law that'll do this for free.
That's fantastic. Like, go go do that. And now I'm just trying to create space. Like, where I'm like, oh, he won't do free. He's like, really?
He's family? Interesting. So, like, I don't have I don't have this the positive and the negative. I'm Right. Kinda rolling with the energy I'm getting at the moment.
Ian: Right. So you're basically just giving them the positive and letting them give you the negative assuming it rather than
Steve: Right. Or but if we're further along the negotiation. Right? Because I've done I've given the positive, and we all know they're like, no. I I I need I don't wanna do that, but I need more money.
Then it's just like, well, I'm sorry. I can't at the price, we can't do that. Oh, we can't be a cash buyer at that price. And then, you know, seeing how that goes, then we start talking about alternative ways to buy their house or get their house sold. But, yeah, like, I I don't have the the either or, which I like what you're doing, because now they get to choose, but it feels it's a choice that's not really a choice.
Ian: We we've talked that like, I think you brought up this analogy of I because I love or questions. Like, you can do this or you can do this, which is in favor of the site, one of the most important principles of in all of persuasion Mhmm. And getting anyone to do anything, which is that people want a feeling of autonomy. Mhmm. They want to feel like they made their own choice.
That's why people don't like being sold. They don't like going to the car lot and all the tech the tactics that are done there, because car car guys suck. And so as a result, like, they don't like that feeling. And so They
Steve: suck at sales. They're not bad people. They just suck at sales.
Ian: What Steve said. And, as a result yeah. They suck at sales. To me, that I put too much value in sales abilities. Alright.
Steve: He's like a seller. He's a bad person.
Ian: He's a bad person. Inherently, obviously. No. Of course not. So it's just a it's like saying that for for any role.
Like, it just it's they'll hire the the joke I always tell about insurance is that if you can breathe onto a mirror and it fogs up, we'll hire you to sell insurance. Car sales is kind of the same thing.
Steve: Same thing with the realtor.
Ian: Yeah. So the differentiation here is, like, I'm trying to give two choices.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: So they keep that feeling of autonomy. The way I present the choices is putting my thumb on the scale or sometimes even a magnet under the scale when we're looking at the number, and then it makes it so unlikely that they will pick that other thing. Because I'm also trying to there's a hidden context here, which is let's just say it's a price thing. Let's let's say, hey. I want for to be specific for the audience, let's say they say, I want 500,000 for my home.
And because that's the Zillow market list. That's the and would make sense theoretically if they were to go with a realtor. Instead of just, saying I can't pay that price for cash, but I can recommend a realtor or something like that or anything negative upfront or even what you're doing, which is that, oh, yeah. If you want that, go with the realtor. My way of differentiating would probably be going, yeah.
You can absolutely probably get close to 500,000 if you want with the realtor and, you know, made any changes they suggested and went through the the the six months of wedding on market and did that whole song and dance. By the time people come to us, it's usually because they want to skip that process and that headache, and they're aware there's an adjustment on price because of it. And let letting them feel like they're picking between. Sometimes I will include a question or a statement after that if I feel like they wouldn't open up. Mhmm.
So I might be like, I don't know if one of those sounds better to you or not. Or if you had to pick between that, did one of them sound a little bit more ideal? Because I I don't wanna assume. Mhmm. I'm always trying to be like, hey.
You can get eaten by a shark. Mhmm. Beaten alive by a shark or you can get a million dollars. That's how I'm always trying to present the options in their subconscious, but, ultimately, they're making a choice. I'm not actually forcing them with yes, no questions or no.
You need to do this. It's their decision even though I've
Steve: Yeah.
Ian: I said that that path is thorns and bears and wolves and, like, I guess you can do that, but it does fall off a cliff. Or here's a path to the four seasons where they'll put a a scented towel on your face. The choice is yours.
Steve: Yeah. Well and the key here is that the choice you want them to go with is the second choice. Right. Because there's a way naturally, humans, we like the last choice the most.
Ian: Exactly. But anyone with a toddler will be familiar with this. And if you're trying to make, do you want, pasta or chicken for dinner? The the statistical likelihood that they will say the second thing you say is pretty obvious with little kids. Mhmm.
It's still obvious with adults too often.
Steve: Yeah. You know, is the it's funny because a lot of stuff we do in sales, right, with the with the takeaway, the pull away. It's the same nonsense we did on the playground. Right. Right?
$5 says you can't climb that wall. Right. Right? It's the same exact thing. We just sound a lot better.
Ian: You sound a lot a lot a lot more sophisticated now. But it's it's it's the same principle because it's principles that you you wanted that kid to climb the wall. You had to get him to climb the wall. Like and that same emotional tug that gets someone wanna take action. Even though they might have to do a little more song and dance to get someone to do it, the same hole on the heart is happening.
Yeah.
Steve: It's like, I know I mean, I I just go back to, like, this is, you know, drinking, hanging out with friends. It's like, hey. I I know you thought you're I I know you you're a really good climber. I know you do all these things, but I don't really think you can climb that wall. Yeah.
I just don't think it's possible. It's like you can't. It's like, I don't know. Maybe $5 says you can't. And then it's but it's just, again, a more polished version of I bet you can't.
Ian: Right. It's true. What's also happening in how I'm in my giving those two choices, though, is by the very nature of them saying, I don't want the six months and the fix up and the wait and go through that song and dance. It what's happening covertly, not overtly, because they're saying I want that I want your process is underneath that, it implies a different price.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: So they're not even saying I want less. They're saying, no. I want that process. But because I just tethered the price that was 500,000 to a process that said they didn't want and said ours is an adjustment on price Mhmm. There's a hit like, a micro commitment to less.
Yeah. Right? So it's not a overt commitment. Mhmm. It's happening in the back and, again, requires multiple things for something to get reoriented around less price if they were logically fixed to
Steve: a higher amount. And in the way, I've been doing this, it's been more along the lines like so, Ian, it sounds like you're trying to get as much money as possible, but at the same time, you want the convenience, the guarantee of a cash offer as fast as possible. How am I supposed to do that? Where then, again, they they come to the conclusion like, oh, yeah. I can't get those things at the price I want.
So I have to give up price, or I have to go to the other direction. But there's no, like, leaning. It's just like, which one do you want? Right. It's just how am I supposed to do that?
And for me, it's not about directing. It's more highlighting what they're asking for is unreasonable. Right. I need to be more, what's the word I'm looking for, pliable in their desires.
Ian: Yeah. So it's it's interesting because it's like, even though yours is more is technically more open ended, they get to verbalize it.
Steve: Yeah. Way more open ended.
Ian: Way more open ended. It also does imply that it's unreasonable in the nature of being open ended. I'm trying to actually not even say what you're saying is unreasonable. It's just a process you don't wanna go through. Alright.
So, like, I'm trying to avoid them even realizing it's unreasonable Mhmm. To give them that negative emotion, but by the very nature of continuing the conversation. So sometimes I'll I'll I'll I'll say make a statement like that and pull away. I don't know if that sounds well for you or if if we should even continue this conversation right now. And by the very nature of choosing to continue the conversation, it's starting to say that the price is different without them going, oh, I'm not being unreasonable.
Mhmm. Just in fact, so I'm stay I'm keeping them in where, hey. That's reasonable, and this is reasonable. The choice is yours. Yeah.
Well, I don't want that. Okay. I guess it means this. I'm trying to get it's just a different
Steve: And I think the thing is is, like, there's nothing we're saying that it's your way or my way. Right. You could start with your way and later on, go with my way.
Ian: Right.
Steve: Right? Like, there's no, like, it's just one or the other because one of the things so we did a role play yesterday for a different client. And, one of the things they noticed because we're doing a role play where, like, you're probably not gonna buy it. Right? Like, there's not the circumstances would not make sense for them to sell to a cash buyer.
But in the role play, I mean, I was going at it for, like, I think, ten to twelve minutes going all these different angles. And his comment to me was like, you're just willing to stay in the box longer. Right? Like, you're not will you're not just end the appointment. I was like, no.
Like, I'm gonna keep going until they tell me, like, to stop. Right. So I will end the sale. I will talk about how great their options are, why they don't need us, and then I'm just gonna keep saying all these different things to the point where either I'm gonna find something eventually to tug on. Yeah.
And once I gotta grab them something, now I'm gonna keep tugging. Or they're gonna say, look, Steve. Like, let's just it's over. Just get out of my house. One of those two things is gonna happen.
Ian: Yeah. This gets brought up a lot in when I role play as well that I say, like, you're still asking questions about this. You just didn't give up. You found you kept you stayed in the pocket Mhmm. And then found another string to pull on.
Steve: Yeah.
Ian: And I I I give the example of I think it was the one maybe not the first, but one of the your installment purchases where the the purse the homeowner was considering a different option Yeah. At that was higher. Mhmm. And in the process of disqualifying I try to make this point. You're not your thought process is not, boy, I hope I get this sale now.
You're saying I'm this is how if I have to leave the home, I run through these steps. Mhmm. In the process of kind of trying to end the appointment, you still committed to the process rather than just going, oh, I guess I can't do it. No. I'll verbalize and run the process and give the prospect a chance to let me know if there's an alternative and said, I guess there's just no way we could ever work together Yeah.
If we're gonna be lower than that other offer. Mhmm. Yeah. And she corrected you and told you a way you could. Instead of other other people go, oh, I guess there's no way I can do it, and they just leave.
Yeah. And they don't give the homeowner the chance to be the hero of their own story and come up with the solution themselves. Yeah.
Steve: I think on that one, one offer was at $2.10. The other was at $2.15. And I was talking to her. I was like, knowing that I couldn't pay more than 200, like as we were talking about this, like, I don't see any way we can work it. There's like, I can't think of any reason why you would take less for your home.
He's like, oh, there's a reason. I was like, oh, great. What what is that reason? So, yeah, like, we we were able to lock it up because I told her there was no reason, and she found it for us.
Ian: Part of what you you're com because you were not immediately comfortable enough when you were having sales conversations with these homeowners to do something like that.
Steve: Initially, no.
Ian: No. Initially, no. Right? It's just like because this gets brought up a lot with a lot of the questions that I ask, which is like, how did you get comfortable being able to ask that question? Because so many people in sales or people having sales conversations are afraid to say that because, like, that that would lose the sale.
Mhmm. And I'm a big believer in giving the prospect their own objections
Speaker: Yeah.
Ian: So that they can overcome. Like, if I have a concern if I if I think early on that this person is not gonna have enough money to pay for my thing, so many salespeople go like, just cross my fingers and hope they'll
Steve: I hope they'll find it.
Ian: I hope they have enough money. And as almost as soon as I realize this is an issue, I'm bringing it up as an issue. Mhmm. And, like, as soon as you were thinking, I don't know how I can do that,
Steve: you told them,
Ian: I don't see any way you could do that, and then they corrected you and told you how.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. What are your
Ian: what are your thoughts on how so many salespeople are afraid to actually say the thing that not saying is costing them to sell because then the prospect doesn't get to be the hero of their own story.
Steve: I think there's a few different things. I think the first one is, you know, experience. Right? Like, at first, like, if I do this and I lose a sale, it's gonna be a problem. Right?
So the first thing is experience, especially if there are quotas to meet. Yeah. Now you, like, gotta go back because I didn't get the contract. Why didn't you get the contract? So, like, first one is is is the quota thing.
The second thing is something you can do about hopefully, you can do about do something about, which is having a great pipeline. Nothing solves I mean, so we say sales solves all problems. Right? One of the best ways to solve any kind of sales problems is having a great pipeline. You got a great pipeline.
You don't need this sale. The power of not needing this sale is so attractive, right, for our prospects. Like, the fact that you don't need this sale is like, god. Like, what's he doing? How do I work with him?
Right? So I think the power that, a, knowing that this helps. But, b, when you got a great pipeline, you can be completely emotionally detached. And now you can say whatever when you're not emotionally attached to the outcome. Today's podcast is brought to you by motivatedleads.com.
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Ian: Yeah. I I talk a lot on this podcast about not just conveying, but embodying non neediness. Mhmm. Like, if if you can actually embody non neediness, so many more things fall into your lap.
Steve: Right.
Ian: If you can exist in that space kind of at all times, I I think a lot about something I heard from, Lance Armstrong, which I know now that he's he's, like, back in podcast even though he's, you know, slightly disgraced still, in terms of the American public. But it like, back in it is he had this language is that I went through life for forever and still kinda do just assuming everyone's gonna say yes to me. Mhmm. Now that doesn't mean assuming you're gonna get every single sale. I actually go in assuming it's like, it's pretty much my job to get a yes or no.
Mhmm. But I also think if this person is closable, I will close. I think that every single time. And if not, I don't need this I don't need to waste my time on this.
Steve: Alright.
Ian: Even if I'm hurting financially in that moment, I embody that at all times. It actually gets me better results because you are inherently compelling and appealing if you assume things are gonna work out and kind of convey that need. So you were talking about, like, actually make it happen. I'm just telling salespeople, just embody it as best you can regardless of your pipeline. You'll actually get better results anyway.
Steve: Yeah. One of the things is, act as if. Yeah. Act as if is so powerful. The other one people say is fake it till you make it.
That's not so great.
Ian: It's not as ideal. Because it
Steve: Same
Ian: implies other things.
Steve: Same conceptually, but your brain does not process it the same. No. But, like, acting as if you're rich and you're closer, that will convey in an appointment. Fake it till you make it, that doesn't really work as well.
Ian: No. No. Fake because by the very nature of we're talking about, like, being specific with our language. Yeah. The nature of faking it Mhmm.
You don't believe it.
Steve: Right.
Ian: Acting as the reason I think acting as if is powerful is because if you believe you actually believe people say yes. You believe you can close every deal. Mhmm. You believe it. That colors the way you feel, like, your thoughts about external circumstances.
Like, oh, that guy didn't have a that guy was no good anyway. He never would have closed. Yeah. It's not me. And if you have a feeling about that, that you don't beat yourself up or whatever, then because of that, that will dictate Yeah.
Also how you act and how you act, especially how you act repeatedly is what actually dictates your results. So belief of acting as if can actually dictate results. The very nature of choosing to say fake it and you don't actually believe it.
Steve: Yeah. So and and that that's just fresh from my mind because I was just on a chat right now with somebody else, and he's like, you know, he made the comment fake it to me. He's like, act as if.
Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Act as if. Yeah. Definitely.
Ian: I wanted to get into, an interesting idea, which is that in trying to examine, someone's hesitations to move forward instead of maybe asking a direct question, like, that that is quite open ended and confrontational, like, what's stopping you from moving forward, is instead try and place them as the type of person who wants that problem solved
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: But call out a hesitation. So instead of saying, what's stopping you from moving forward Mhmm. Which is curiosity for them to then verbalize what's stopping them. I would rather say, like, you know, you seem really committed to solving this. I'm aware there's probably some setbacks.
I guess I should even ask because I'm sensing some hesitation. What's the real reason you're even wanting to have this conversation now?
Steve: Yeah.
Ian: And so I'm trying to get and we're talking about I we only ask questions about pain we can solve. Mhmm. I also only want my prospect verbalizing things that are towards the sale Mhmm. Or I actually know I can't waste my time. So I don't I wouldn't assuming that I think I'm not wasting my time.
Mhmm. I don't even wanna ask a question that what they tell me could cost me is moving away from the sale. Yeah. Unless disqualification is different. But if I think they're qualified, all everything I'm asking them is to get them to verbalize somewhere it makes sense for us to work together.
Mhmm. Not even to tell me the reasons they don't want to. Because I think in pursuit of them verbalizing that, they will convince themselves against the reasons they don't want to because they said it instead of Yeah. Me asking that question that I know all their reasons, and then I have to attack those reasons.
Steve: Mhmm. Yeah. So I think this one, what you're talking about here, I think you're a lot better in this in this arena because the way I would attack is a little bit is a little bit different. Okay. Right?
Because the way I would attack it generally is, like, I didn't do a good enough job creating this awesome movie of them in it about how awesome life's gonna be after the after we work together.
Ian: Sure. Right?
Steve: And if we do that strong enough, like, they should be compelling themselves. And other things I might say is, like, I don't think now's the right time. You know? I think we're maybe we jumped the gun. You know?
Like, it it seems like you're in no hurry.
Ian: Right.
Steve: And I'll kinda label that, and I want them to correct me. Right? So, like, something I'll say is, like, yeah, it sounds like if this takes six months to figure out, it's no big deal. And, again, that goes back to, like, you know, emotionally detached and just kinda labeling the situation in the hopes that they'll correct me. It's like, no, Steve.
It is a big deal. Like, oh, sorry. I misunderstood. Why is it a big deal? Right.
And then for them to elaborate. So, like, that's the direction I would go with it.
Ian: It's still in pursuit of the same thing, though, which is them verbalizing the reason they're moving forward.
Steve: Yeah.
Ian: It's yeah. But I the way you're doing it is how would you describe that as being, like I guess mine is I'm trying to stay more positive with them. Mhmm. And you're calling out the negative to get it's much like we talked about before, which is that you're stopping a little bit harsher Mhmm. And more extreme Yeah.
And letting them correct you otherwise.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think, I really embrace you know, we talk with Sandler and the pendulum and, like, always staying one a little bit enthusiastic one bit less enthusiastic than them or one step less enthusiastic than them. So, like, that's my default. Yeah. And I do that a lot because it works.
Like, it's it works for me, so I'm gonna keep doing it. Whereas yours is more exploratory and, you know, it's, you're asking a question where it's open ended. That it's kind of open ended where they'll tell you the reasons why. Yeah. So I'm more assumptive and negative.
I think you're more curious and nowhere near as negative.
Ian: I'd say probably nowhere near as negative, but I say energy wise, if we're thinking about that principle of Sandler staying a step behind them
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: I'm still trying to be like, I'm still sensing some hesitation. Yeah. I guess I'm not even sure why you even wanna do this now. Mhmm. So even though I'm not as negative, I'm still behind them in certainty Right.
So that they verbalize it. It's just a different way to be behind them. Yeah. One's negatively a step behind them, and one's sort of curiosity Mhmm. A step behind them.
Yeah. Because I love just remaining curious at all times. And then whenever I sense a discrepancy, I just blame my own understanding of it. Like, I'm not understanding this at all. I'm totally missing something.
Yeah. And then they are illuminating Mhmm. Things for me, and they get to be the smart one Right. In trying to explain what's really going on. Yeah.
Steve: Because I think the instance where you're saying, like, I'm I'm sensing some hesitation. For me, I would use that when I hear a counterfeit. Yes.
Ian: Mhmm.
Steve: Right? And those instances, like, hey, Ian. I appreciate you saying, you know, you're on board with what we're talking about here, but sensing some hesitation. Am I crazy here? Yeah.
So, like, in those instances, that's where, like, that word track would come off of me.
Ian: Okay.
Steve: Right? A counterfeit, yes. We're gonna call it out by sensing by calling the hesitation. But if I feel like and maybe just in this example, I'm picturing a person that's like, yeah. I'm not ready to do anything right now.
I'm just like, well, then forget all of it. Right?
Ian: Oh, no. So to be clear, I'm saying that if someone's like, I think this sounds great.
Steve: Oh, okay. So so then I was looking at a prospect. Prospect is like, this looks great. I'm ready to go. I was like, I might ask something along the lines.
Like, I'm curious. Like, why now? Like, what's going it's like, if someone's like, I'm ready to go right now. It's like, I'm curious what's going on. Like, why are you interested right now?
Just so they they can tell me why now is important.
Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you're you're okay. Yeah.
Steve: So I think maybe just in my head, the example you're giving, I was thinking of a person that was like, nope. I don't need to do anything. Then I would go, like, super hard. Like, oh, okay. Sounds like six months.
Is that gonna be a problem?
Ian: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's it's very interesting that the difference because I think for many of our many of the listeners, it will seem very, very similar because we're talking about very specific nuances.
Mhmm. Because it's still the same general type of flow. But for some people who do it all the time, we're more noticing the differences.
Steve: Yeah. Because I'm sensing where your energy is, and I wanna just be one step less. So in the example, you're saying in my head Yeah.
Ian: They were Why now?
Steve: They were neutral.
Ian: Right.
Steve: But if they're, like, giddy and ready to go, they'll hang on before we do this. Like, I don't understand. Like, what's going on? Like, why did you even reach out to us? Why does it have to be right now?
Ian: Well, to be clear, what I just said, even though they were saying something that was affirmative, the language they were using implied logical thinking, so I'm assuming it's neutral.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: So I might if they're like, yeah. I mean, I'm thinking it sounds pretty good. I'm like, I'm still sensing some hesitation. Mhmm. Am I am I totally off base there?
Because they're using language that shows they're not feeling. Mhmm. And so it, like, becomes this other hack that because I'm sort of seeing that they're not ready to make a decision, what they're likely to tell me is, this sounds great. Let me run the numbers, and I let me talk to my partner real quick and see if we can do this. That that's what I'm expecting.
Yeah.
Steve: And I think part of this too, right, is for some of the people that are not as familiar with it. I think Neil Rackham talks about happy years.
Ian: Mhmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Right? Like, we can I've been guilty of this. It's like, oh, they're ready to go. Let's go ahead and sign this up. And then we moved so fast, and they're like, woah.
Hang on. Let me just check a few more things. Because we were so agreeable because they were such a hot lead.
Ian: Yeah.
Steve: And then the happy years, you were saying, like, you know, I they're saying, I think, for you, is flashing yellow. Yeah.
Ian: It's flashing yellow.
Steve: Yeah. It's flashing yellow. With caution. But for most people, yeah, I think this this sounds pretty good. I I think I think we're good with it.
Most people take that as, like, they're right there. Right. No. I don't. Taking that as flashing yellow.
Ian: Exact in fact, I think yellow is even worse than red. So to me, yellow is the worst possible color because the cost because at least red, I understand. Mhmm. Like, no is fine. Yeah.
The I like this, and I need you to follow-up with me because I like it is is hell for me.
Steve: I hate it. It's no man.
Ian: I hate it. Yeah. So I'm trying to overcome that and but they have no idea. Like, them will be like, what do you mean hesitant? You know?
Steve: Like,
Ian: I'm always but I'm behind them because I'm trying to create the feeling of certainty in how they verbalize what they wanna do. That's my thought process there is that I'm hearing like and the last time I had happy years, I thought I'd gotten rid of my happy years, and then it was a couple months. I think it was November at happy years again with a client who'd I mean, qualified, everything. Like, the they told me, like, I absolutely want to. Like, this is such a thing.
And I was like, alright. I'll believe you. Mhmm. And, of course, they did not. Like Mhmm.
So I think the only thing I know of that can actually overcome salesperson happier is is just doing it enough that you are so confronted with the statistical reality Yeah. Of what that really means Mhmm. That you like, even though you because you still wanna have the inclination, just the reality you've been through enough overrules what Yeah. Your ears want you to hear.
Steve: The joke I make all the time on our training is that if I sound jaded and broken, it's because I'm jaded
Ian: and broken. Yeah. Yeah. It's jaded and broken is is how your I'm just like, I'm just aware of reality, which is it. That's I guess that's probably how the people
Steve: Was it I was talking to someone yesterday. I was like, a conversation where someone was disappointed and said, well, I know what your problem is. It's like, what's your prop what's my problem? I was like, you still have faith in humanity. Yeah.
Right? Whereas I've lost all faith in humanity, and so I'm pleasantly surprised all the time. But, like, when bad things happen, it's like, well, okay. Let's and I'm generally an optimistic person. I just don't hope Right.
Things will go right. I set myself up so things will go right.
Ian: Right. Yeah. It's a it's a we were talking about acting as if and having the belief that things people say yes to you, but it's also I believe that before I'm actually in a real circle. I can just believe that is a general vibe at all times. But I think when it comes to the specificity, I'm just assuming people are lying.
Steve: Well, yeah. So just
Ian: the thing Yeah. Distinction.
Steve: I expect that I will perform. Right. And I expect you will lie to me in a sales conversation.
Ian: Right. Right. Right.
Steve: Like, those are the expectations.
Ian: Got it.
Steve: Right. So I expect you to lie to me, but I expect a good outcome because I expect myself to perform. Right. I decide to perform.
Ian: Yeah. So it's a it's you know, what we talked about, it's a self belief for your ability to overcome the realities of the world. Yes. Yeah. I think I share that pretty much a 100% with you.
Steve: One of
Ian: the last things I wanted to to talk about was this idea of it doesn't come up quite as much in how you go for the close in buying houses. Mhmm. But very much the sort of, like, being assumptive around next steps, especially around the close. So Scott brought up yesterday when I was on someone else's podcast, who was a coach, who was we did a I coached him on how to sell his coaching services at the end, which was super fun to do. And he was having trouble.
His closing line, I told him I mean, was literally he ran a pretty good process without didn't set expectations in any way, shape, or form, so I gave him that. And then his he he's gotten better at asking questions and then not not actually coaching in the moment because he had made that mistake before. But his closing question was
Steve: I mean, I told him,
Ian: I was like, this I think this is literally the worst closing question I've like, the worst thing I've ever heard at the end, which is, so let me know what you think. Mhmm. I mean, it literally had a, what do you think? Mhmm. And it let me know later what you think to close in it.
And so I gave him a new closing question, and I was helping him with that. But when we got to, like so do I send them a link? I said, no. Have them sign up right there. Well, how do I do that Mhmm.
Where they are comfortable, or, like, I feel good internally being on the call. Because otherwise, I feel like, well, give me your money, and then and then we're off the call. Yeah. And the advice I gave to him is that genuinely have a reason after it, which is what you're in pursuit of, which is to schedule the first session.
Steve: Mhmm.
Speaker: But
Ian: you can't actually schedule a session till they're paid. Yeah. So I'll send you the link. You can click because rather than taking the info over the phone, he sends a link so they can click it. And then once that's clicked, let me know.
I'm also gonna I'll open up the calendar to look at the session. Mhmm. So it becomes this, like, assumptive thing, which can also then say all the time, hey. Yeah. I mean, the whole goal is to schedule that first session.
So you can be assumptive around the thing Mhmm. That you're gonna do on that call, but to even do that, you have to get paid first.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: What are your thoughts just around that idea?
Steve: So so one of the things I learned a long time ago is if this is just part of the process, people go along with it. Yeah. You make a big deal, it's a big freaking deal. Right? And so I learned this as a realtor.
You know? I was like, alright, Ian. You want these 10 things? Like, we did an inspection. You want these 10 things repaired.
I'm gonna go to bat for you, and we get these 10 things done. And then the listing agent is like, go to hell. Right? He come back. He's like, man, Ian, like, I know you want those 10 things.
They told us zero. Like, I can't believe this. I can't believe this is this realtor. Blah blah blah blah. Right?
And now you're angry about it, and now, like, this whole transaction's gone to hell. Right. Right? I say, man, Ian, look. We're gonna ask for these 10.
Realistically, they might agree to one or two. Realistically. And so this is what we're gonna do. And if they come back and say they'll do all 10, great. If they said they'll do one or two, like, that's just the way it is.
Right? Come back realtor and I'll talk to the realtor about, like, hey. Like, where are we? This and that. And then whatever they give me, hey.
Look. They're really upset, but I was able to get them to agree to five. It's just part of the process. You feel good about it. I didn't make a big deal about it.
Ian: Right. I
Steve: said, hey. Here's the here's the process. It's this element of, like, I can ask them for a credit card. I gotta get them, and then you get your own self beliefs.
Ian: Right.
Steve: And I gotta get them to agree to credit card. Oh, man. It's gonna be this whole big deal. Because, like, hey, Ian. Here are the next steps.
So for us to get scheduled, all we need is your credit card. And once we have your credit card, we can go ahead and get scheduled for the onboarding call. And now we can get started, you know, call, you know, whenever we schedule the onboarding. Like, oh, okay. When I say here are the next steps, this is what's normal.
He's like, okay. Well, this is normal. I feel safe.
Ian: Right.
Steve: But if I like him and and, like okay. So, Ian, here's what we're gonna need.
Ian: Yeah.
Steve: I need your credit card. Why is this so weird? And just this energy you bring, this vibe you bring to this conversation is what causes the resistance.
Ian: It's so true. I mean, this came up this is very true for me in this in part of the selling solar process because we had to do a third party call Mhmm. After we signed the contract. And this was like a VA and some other countries, so they had an accent. People are already nervous about solar being a scam.
Like, that's a normal thing anyway. And then I was so freaked out. I always made it a big deal. Like, we have to do this because we have to go through this and answer yes to everything. If you have any questions, I'll talk about it afterwards.
Like, it was like a I made it a big deal, and I lost multiple sales where they had already signed the contract Mhmm. From that call. I mean, I I lost thousands and thousands of dollars in personal commission on someone else's thing, not even my thing, just because I made this call a big deal. Mhmm. And when I made the shift of I don't make this a big deal.
In fact, I I would laugh. I was like, they're gonna ask you 10 questions. I don't know. Answer give you an answer to everything's yes. They don't have any answers for you.
There's someone in some other country that has to do this. They have no idea what they're asking. They have to run through this. If you have any questions, we'll clarify it afterwards. It's like a nothing thing.
Sometimes they even ask a thing you don't even understand what they're saying. It's crazy. When I I made it no big deal, it was never a problem for me again. Right. And so what it's that's why I talk about the self belief a lot.
What you believe is a big deal, your prospects will treat as a big deal. So if you have a resistance to taking the credit card, I think the first thing to do is probably just think I have to act like it's not a big deal. Even you don't have to because it's way easier to be like, I'm gonna put on a performance like this isn't a big deal rather than to overcome your own self limitations Yeah. For the first call.
Steve: Oh, we
Ian: got an interesting background. Yeah. Rather overcome limitations for the first call. We're back. So and what happens is once you get that one time, then you and you realize that you got rewarded, it's then never a big deal again.
So just act as if the first time Mhmm. A little bit of fake until you make it on that one thing. Only in that for this one little strategic, like, if you can pretend it's not a big deal Mhmm. By even getting through that one time, you'll then realize It's not a big deal. It's not a big deal.
Steve: I mean, just think about, like, Tony Robbins' big thing, right, is the fire walk. Whatever that thing is. You're walking on coals. Right? If we can imagine, like, alright, everybody.
So look. I need you to sign this disclaimer because we're gonna be walking on Kohl's, and there's a possibility it might be it probably won't, but it might. Yeah. Right? Versus alright.
Everyone who are walking on Kohl's now. Right? It's just, oh, okay. This is what we're doing.
Ian: Right. Right. Yeah. You it's amazing what you can the the influence you have just by what you act, like, is it big deal or not?
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Alright.
Ian: The last one I wanted to, touch on before we rack wrap up here is this idea of sort of, like, pinpointing a real objection
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: After you've maybe the last 10% at the end of the conversation if you're trying to get someone to close and they just still can't still can't get there. Or maybe they feel either using thinking language or whatever. I mean, it's a newer development that I'm aware they're you like, I'm about to get this is good, but let me think about it. I think the biggest mistake that most people make is their closing question is yes oriented Mhmm. Rather than open ended.
I will often I was just thinking about this today, which is that my favorite closing question is if we can take care of x, we can take care of y, we can take care of z, three pain points that they had verbalized as important to them that we solve.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: How should we prioritize this? And after they say it's a big priority, what do you feel we should do now? I think that's the that's my favorite. Though I'm aware that if someone is not yet good at sales, they might ask that question. They take too long to ask that question Mhmm.
That confuses the process because there's variables in it. Yeah. They don't say it concisely. And so by making open ended, the person go, yeah. No.
I'm I'm I'll I guess, I'll talk to my brother and figure it out by being open ended. Mhmm. And so sometimes I say it's okay to go, if we can take care of x, we can take care of y and take care of z. Do you feel like this is a priority? So intentionally close off Mhmm.
And then say, what do you feel like we should do now? Or something along those lines where you get open ended to actually close, but you get a you get a yes first because if you're not good enough, the double open ended can throw you off. Sure. What are your thoughts on that?
Steve: Hey, disruptors. I just wanna share that myself as well as about half of the people on the show for disruptors are members of the Collective Genius real estate mastermind also known as CG. Now I've been a member of the Collective Genius for well over four years now along with about 700 other top tier real estate investors that flip a combined over 50,000 homes per year, and I've personally made a ton of money and developed some deep personal lifelong friendships there. If you wanna look behind the scenes of what it's like to be an esteemed member of this organization and how it's helped me scale, please check out cgmastermind.com. I mean, I think it's good.
The for me, because I think having them pick is kinda like the going back to, you know, when I was a realtor, like, which which house would you like to make an offer on first? And they're like, oh, well, I mean, the eight we saw earlier, the three we saw today, I was like, I'll say this one. Right? The what I've always liked to do was reminding them of the roles we established beforehand. Hey.
You know, it makes sense for us to work here. What means we put everything in writing. Right? So I remind them right beforehand. Like, remember we talked about this earlier.
Ian: Yeah. And then
Steve: we go through, like, the independent close, and it's like, well, what would you like me to do now? And they're like, well, you told me if I felt comfortable. That's what we do. It's like, well, okay. Just hope you're comfortable.
Right. But, like, I re I planted that seed when we started the appointment. I reminded them of that seed about a minute before I asked them what would you like me to do now. What you're doing here is you're saying here are the three things that you said were important. Which would you like to prioritize?
Or for someone newer, like,
Ian: you know
Steve: I don't say if you like it's priority.
Ian: Yeah. Yeah. I don't say which would you like to prioritize. I say if we're gonna take care of all of the I'm all I'm doing is stacking the things we solve.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: So we're doing all three. Right. How would you like to prioritize? How would you like to prioritize? Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. So I think in that mode, you've gotten them to mentally spent. Right? Like, they're they're not spent not mentally spent, but they're mentally doing it. Yeah.
Right? Like, they are we talk about quite a bit about future pacing. You know? It's like, now they're using your product. Right.
Ian: Right?
Steve: And now they're using their product. Them not buying your product now is gonna cause cognitive dissonance.
Ian: Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah. That's the goal.
Steve: Right? And so, like, oh, no. Like, no. I want this. Why are we taking this away?
Right.
Speaker: So I
Steve: think I think I think it's powerful.
Ian: That's what I'm trying to do. Yeah. I I I will often that that your point about telling them what other people have done Mhmm. I will also I also like, I'm trying not trying to be conscious about giving a little bit too much away since many people on this, who watch this podcast will end up being prospects. But, like, there's an ask of, like I mean, typically, at this point, when people thought it was valuable, they wanted to, like, to get started so they could at least go through the first thing and and set up the next call so they could be on on this at this time.
I guess for you, if we can make sure you can x, y, y, z, it's always how should we prioritize this. I like I like Yeah. I like it. Person plural language Mhmm. In the we're doing this together.
Mhmm. And then what do you feel like you should do now? So it's like, how should we prioritize it? Well and then they're not you know, they don't say we. They said, no.
I know it's a huge priority. And I go, okay. What do you feel like you should do now? Mhmm. So, like, I should probably sign up.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Because they've already experienced using the product.
Ian: Right. And to to say, well, let me to hold off for a bit now. They now lose the three pains that they could just envision solving. Mhmm.
Steve: And
Ian: they lose that feeling they have a that that hurts who they feel like they are because they just had a moment of their pain going away. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. It's like, they were out in the cold Yeah. And they walked into, the cabin with the log the log cabin with the fire going. It's nice and warm. They've got their hot cocoa.
They got their blanket. It's feeling pretty good. They're experiencing it.
Ian: Right.
Steve: And then you're asking, would you like me to what would you like to do now? And, like, well, I need to think about it. They're, in a way, walking right out. They're taking the blanket off, putting the hot cocoa down, and walking right out into the snowstorm again.
Ian: Right. Exactly.
Steve: They're choosing to walk into the snowstorm versus staying in the cabin.
Ian: Compared to the the single most common closing question I hear in wholesaling real estate Mhmm.
Speaker: Which is
Ian: that if we can do this price, is it would you even feel comfortable signing today? And they're like, yes. And they go, okay. I'm gonna send this over. And then they go, well, hang on a second.
I gotta run it by my sister. Let me think about this or I'm feeling rushed. Or
Steve: My attorney.
Ian: Yeah. I'll talk to my attorney first. Yeah. I need some time with this.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: That is the single most common closing question I see even from, like, sophisticated teams. Yeah. They still close that way. Right. Get a counterfeit yes.
And when it comes to the specifics of they have to actually the counterfeit the yes is not what gets the sale. It's actually the signing the contract or taking the credit card. It's clicking the link. It's doing something Mhmm. Because they were in pursuit of a yes rather than pursuit of what do you feel like we should do now?
How should we take care of this? How should we prioritize this? Would this be a thing that you you even find helpful? I guess, what what do you feel like we should do now? Like, instead of that, like, what would you wanna have happen next?
Them verbalizing it, they're getting counterfeit yeses. Mhmm. And then they're dealing with the delay objection afterwards once the salesperson thought the job was done. And there's this, like, mismatch and the salesperson being like, wait. What?
I thought I was about I was already thinking about the money I would like, what I was gonna buy with this commission check, and it becomes this total Another loss. Failure. And now it's a loss for the salesperson instead of for the Well, I'm
Steve: not saying that now now is not it's not just a loss for the salesperson. Also, like, their brain is jarred. Yes.
Ian: Yeah.
Steve: Right? Like, you got sacked by a blindside hit. Yeah. And now you're getting back up. Like, what just happened?
Yeah.
Ian: Yeah. Where did I get hit from? Right?
Steve: And now you gotta get your bearings back. And that moment of getting jarred, you're not your best self to overcome this objection.
Ian: Also the worst time for it to happen because tensions are already highest right at the end going for the close anyway. It's like the worst. Mhmm. It's crazy because they're like, this is done by so many companies, and they make this mistake over and over. And it's like, I still tell companies not to, and then they still make that mistake.
Mhmm. Like, I don't know what to do to get people to convince to train their team on this. That's why I'm trying to say close off before the open ended question because that's a you don't have to be as skilled. Because, like, I'm aware of some of the stuff we talked about on this podcast, like, the recapping back, the manna potion thing is harder to train than it is to talk about conceptually. Mhmm.
To actually train of, like, here's this step, and here's this, and here's this. Because when someone is not super fast cognitively or not super experienced of having gone through this a thousand times, it can feel overwhelming. And that sense of overwhelming is just too advanced for me. They don't even try it. They get overwhelmed.
They just do it wrong and go, see, I did it. I did it and it didn't work, and they did it wrong. And so I just, like, I just wish I could make this as easy as possible for other people to apply because these concepts are advanced, but I also wanna be able to train them Mhmm. At scale.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think the greatest problem is they might be aware of the principle. Are they applying it? Yeah. Then if they're applying it, are they applying it correctly?
And it's hard to know because you're taking an abstract principle. Things we're talking about, you can't hold it in your hand. You can't see it, do this. Right? It's we're we're speaking conceptually.
You and I are applying it, and we're training it on all the time, and we're doing it in call reviews. But if you're listening to this and you're not doing call reviews, you're not role playing it, it's kinda hard to correct it because your ability to process it ability your awareness that you're not doing it correct is a difficult task. It's a it's a big ask. Yeah. Right?
Like, the the thing I talk about all the time, right, basketball. So, by the way, you know, just shout out right here. You know? I hit a couple NBA threes this morning because of a court we play using NBA threes. But, like, when I'm off on my shot, I don't know what's off of
Ian: my shot. Right. Right. Right.
Steve: Because it's me.
Ian: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: But a friend of mine is like, why aren't you bending your knees? Like, I don't know why I'm not bending my knees. Right? You need someone else.
Ian: The outside party to actually notice what's not working.
Steve: Yeah. So you need someone else to observe who knows what to look for.
Ian: Right. Yeah. It's it comes to this principle of, like, is sales training something we did or something we do?
Steve: Mhmm. Right?
Ian: And, also, is is it valuable to have a coach or an authority? I mean, it's self serving for us to talk about this. Yeah. But so many people understand this concept in something physical. Right?
But it becomes very hard for, I think, the average person to apply this to the soft skill of persuasion, sales conversations, running a process. They don't they are aware that on the surface, their golf swing, for someone who's not sophisticated, can just look like they're swinging a golf club. Mhmm. But it requires an expert who's actually watching in slow mo and go see, there's a half a degree off, and that's why you never hit the green. And it's like, you can understand that for a physical thing over and over again, but we lose this because it seems like once I've learned this knowledge, I should know it forever, and it's just not how sales conversations work.
It should be treated like a physical sport. That's why I I call like, I didn't come up with this. Jeb Blunt initially made this point, but I will repeat it until the day I die that sales professionals are the athletes of the business world, and they should treat their time the way they review footage, the way they try and improve, not in the game, but during practice, the exact same way. And I just I was wish we could, like I could broadcast this out to the world. That's why I'm doing this man on the street content and everything is to try and broadcast this message so people adapt these changes.
Steve: You wanna hear something embarrassing? Always. So there was a time I had a flip cam. Right? And I was trying to get good at golf, so I recorded our golf swings.
And I'm looking at my golf swing. Right? Again and with the other guys I'm golfing with. And, like, in my opinion, I've got a great golf swing.
Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
Steve: I can't see anything wrong with it. Right? Like, everything that they're telling me to do, I'm doing all of them. Now it's not working. Right?
It's not doing what is the outcome is not in alignment with how it's supposed to go. But at my skill level, I can't see what I'm doing wrong.
Ian: Right.
Steve: By everything I know to be true, my golf swing my golf swing is great. Right. But it's clearly not. Right. And I can't tell I can't fix it.
Ian: I think that's that's not I mean, that's a normal that's pretty normal, I think.
Steve: But in my mind, it was such a beautiful swing.
Ian: In your mind, it was beautiful.
Steve: That is
Ian: a little embarrassing. Like, I've got a beautiful swing. Fair enough. But, like, the I mean, this comes up time and again. I mean, it's why it's funny that we I was joking that we're selling sales training to the wrong people because by the very nature of being a salesperson, you think you're good at sales.
Steve: Right.
Ian: And so it you're not problem aware
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: Because you think, I got a great golf swing. It was the weather that day. It was the leads. It's the marketing department. It's the economy.
It's everything but me because look at how beautiful my swing is.
Steve: Right.
Ian: It'd be like, we're having it that issue because as they are, by the nature of doing this professionally, inherently thinking they're already pretty good. Mhmm. Now even the ones who are actually good, they tend to have this thought process of I can always get better, but they're still operating from a place of, well, I'm good though. And when you have that, you don't realize what's wrong in your swing.
Steve: Mhmm.
Ian: And there's, like, 50 different things that you're doing wrong that could give you this massive and, also, because in sales, the whole reason that someone like Andy Elliot is so popular is because it's so oriented around activity and motivation. Sometimes you can just do more work than anyone else. Mhmm. And then you still make more money than everyone else around you. And so you have this reinforcement of, like, oh, because I did more activity, and I'm I'm making more money.
Mhmm. Therefore, what I'm doing is working. And you already have the belief that my swing is good, and so you just have all these blind spots, and you don't know where to improve and you
Steve: think you're amazing already. I did have, Jesse Burrell at one point come out with a Mitsuda driving range.
Ian: Okay.
Steve: And he's like, I'm feeling pretty good. Like, what do you think? Because he was at one point a trained PGA Okay. Trainer. He's like, do you do this and do this.
And, yeah, significant improvements. Right? Yeah. But, again, on my level of knowledge Yeah. It was everything was good.
A professional, having someone like you, someone like me review the calls, like, hey. When you did when they said this, what was going through your head? When you said this, what were you applying?
Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's all I I really got for it to go through that stuff today. I mean, I always like to say that some of the stuff I talk about on this podcast on some of these episodes is this is the assuming you're already doing enough work to justify get better. Mhmm.
There's I always say there's, like, three levers anyone can pull at any given time and how to think about it, which is, like, how much work you're actually doing, your skill set at that work, and your kinda mindset and fuel to actually either do more work or try and get better. Mhmm. That's as as an individual contributor, those are the main things to focus on. And so some people can get stuck in in the improvement loop and think they're always just trying to get as good as possible. Really just not even doing enough work
Speaker: Mhmm.
Ian: To justify being in sales in the first place. Yeah. Once you are actually putting in a right amount of dials or knocks or whatever you're doing, having enough appointments, actually working a consistent forty hour week, if nothing else Mhmm. And you wanna get better, that's usually when you can apply an advanced principle like recapping with a mana potion kinda thing because the lowest hanging fruit is just doing more work. It's why people like Andy Elliott make any money in the first place and call themselves sales trainers.
It's because if someone shouts at you to do more work and you do more work, you'll probably make more money. But once you're sophisticated enough to be past the point of someone shouting at you to do more work and you actually wanna get better, that's that's when the professional looking at your golf swing steps in. So anything else you wanna give the audience before I wrap up?
Steve: I mean, this has been fun. I know, like, you know, something you and I talked about, you know, coming on, just having more of these conversations. So look forward to future ones. This is good. Hopefully everyone is watching got a ton of value out of it.
Ian: I hope so. Let us know what if there was anything that you had heard that sounded new to you, said a novel, or how you will apply it going forward. Let us know in the comments. Let us know in the review. It it helps the algorithm, and we're trying to expand this out.
It helps us know that people are listening and getting value. So I'm Ian Ross. Thanks, Steve. Thanks for coming on. This has been the Close More Sales podcast.
Shout out to Steve Train. Jump on the Steve Train. Disrupt us.
