Making $1MM Tax Free – Alex Moses & Brian Higgins on How They’ve Done 350+ BRRRRs & Own 160+ Rentals

Steve Trang: And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Brian and Josh to answer. You guys ready?

Alex Moses: So yep.

Steve: Alright. First question is what got you guys into real estate?

Alex: Can we go first? Yeah. Go ahead. So, just to be quite honest with you from from 18 to 25, I'm 29 now, I had no clue what I was gonna do with my life. The opposite of the stereotypical East Asian.

Brian Higgins: Right? So you

Alex: you probably know so

Steve: so much Asian community. Yeah. You're gonna be a doctor or dentist, whichever you wanna be.

Alex: Or lawyer. Right?

Steve: Or a nurse.

Alex: So I didn't go to the college route. I was a troubled kid. I'm kind I I used to be embarrassed about, you know, what I'm about to say. But I'm not anymore since I found real estate, but I actually got a 14 on my ACC. I barely passed.

My mom got remarried and moved to Dallas. So I went went there. She asked me she begged me to go to college. So I went to college. I went for two years, and I did not earn a single credit.

So, she actually

Steve: Two years?

Alex: Two years. Yeah.

Brian: Two years.

Alex: I would pretty much go over the first couple of months months of each year, and I just stopped going. So, I moved back to Oklahoma. My uncle, he took me in, and he was like, Alex, what are you gonna do with your life? And I told him, I'm like, uncle, I don't know. And at this point in my life, I'm 25.

I have no desire to, like, have any ambitious goals. I just don't care. I was working at US Cellular at the time, and he walks in and he says, hey. You should go get your realtor license and go work with investors. And the reason why he pointed that out is because he's actually the only entrepreneur of the family.

He owns rental properties. So he told me about this class and he told me to go to an an in house course class so I can learn. He told me to go sit in the front, and I did. And, anyways, the course begins, and there's this, like, annoying guy in the back, and he's answering every single question. I'm like, dude, who is this guy?

He like, why is he in this class? He knows every answer. So I told myself, I'm like, you know what? During the break, the bathroom break, I'm definitely gonna, you know, go up to him and ask him, like, hey, why are you here? You know every answer.

So, you know, we proceed to the bathroom break and, you know, hey, I'm Alex. He's like, hey, I'm Brian, this guy. And, I asked him, why are you here? And, how do you know every answer? He's all like, well, I own my own insurance company for the last couple years and then I'm also a real estate investor.

Instantly a light bulb because my uncle told me, hey, go to realtor school, get your license, work with investors. So immediately, I'm like, okay. Cool. I have to ask this guy out for lunch once we get our license. Right?

So at the time, he you owned 18? Yeah.

Brian: I was I just started real estate. I sold my insurance agency and just started buying properties at the time and I bought 18 leading up to that and I was getting my license to save money on transactions. I kept getting outbid. I got outbid on probably 40 properties. I was buying off the MLS, did not know what wholesaling was.

Alex: Right.

Brian: And so he comes along and I was getting my license just to save money. I thought if I could save 3%, I could offer 3% more. Right. It'd be a wash and

Alex: I'd get more deals. So little did I know, like, looking back on it now, this was my million dollar meeting.

Brian: Right. So I

Alex: hadn't I hadn't had no clue anything about this guy other than he owned a few rental properties, had his own insurance company. So fast forward two weeks, it was a fast paced, like, real realtor school. Got my license. I called Brian up. Brian got his license.

Kinda funny. I passed by one question. He got, like, a 98. Right? So nothing's changed so far.

Mhmm. My uncle's excited for me. He's like, hey. I got your license. I'm gonna give you three properties to sell off market.

I'm like, sweet. I have lunch with this guy, Brian, I just met. He's a real estate investor. So I go to, there's this local joint called The Garage. It's on, like, a hundred and twenty second or half year in May.

That's irrelevant. But, we meet up there and, I have a piece of copy paper and I show Brian. There's an address, a purchase price, and a rent amount. So these were already rented through Section A. He takes a look at the piece of paper and he's like, I want him.

I'm talking ten seconds. Right? I'm like, what do you mean you want him? You haven't you haven't seen him.

Brian: Yeah.

Alex: And he's like, no. I trust you. I'm all like, you trust me? Like, you haven't seen the properties? He's like, you said it was rented.

Right? I said, yeah. He's like, I'll just do a drive by. Right? So this was a huge moment in my life because the most I had ever made in my life during a month span was $2,000, $9,000 in one day, my first day having my license.

So over the course of that year, it was 2017.

Steve: Real estate's gonna be. It's Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, man, this is awesome. Right?

Alex: So I just made triple the amount, that I've ever made in my life. So during that whole year, my I have a few other uncles. They, they have real estate, properties, and they would give me their properties, and I would just kinda move to pride. Right? And then he had friends that were interested as well.

So I sold, like, my entire uncle's portfolio to Brian and to some of his friends. And then, I guess, Brian could kinda talk about how he got started. So

Brian: Yeah. And I those deals were one of those when you see it. It's just that there's no way they could not work kind of deal, so it was really easy. He didn't know that at the time. Looking back now Yeah.

He would buy them in a split second Or wholesale for $10,000. Or wholesale for $10,000 each and stuff like that. So it's funny that

Steve: Right.

Brian: It's just an interesting thing to see how that was a life changing moment for both of us. It really honestly was for both of us at the time, but neither of us knew it at the time.

Steve: Mhmm. True. I said

Brian: I was getting some deals, and I was happy about that. So but I got into real estate. I was different. I had an insurance agency for about nine years, and I, that was fine. Everything was good.

Made good money. I just saw a transition of what I was doing within the agency and realized that's not what I wanted to be at. And every wealthy person that I'd ever met on real estate. Usually, lots of it, different stuff from single families all the way to big commercial stuff. And so I, like, always knew, like, at the back of my mind, I wanted to own real estate.

Steve: Insurance that you knew that or you other Just other people that I knew.

Brian: So nothing totally unrelated. A lot of my clients, though, my wealthier clients owned multiple rentals. Mhmm. There's it always is in the back of my mind to do that. So I knew that was a good that was gonna be something I wanted to pursue.

I've always wanted to own a subway, rentals, and storage units. I have no idea why the subway will never happen. Honestly, I don't want that kind of thing, but just in general I've

Steve: heard good things about subway. Yeah.

Brian: It's it's yeah. I have too. But I just, at this point in my life, I was like, I'll stick to just regular

Steve: real estate.

Brian: I might own the strip center Mhmm. At least to someone who wants to have their own Subway because I don't want to now.

Steve: But Yeah.

Brian: I, I decided to sell my agency. The lady that I sold my agency to was a friend of mine, and it was perfect timing for her to buy my agency. It was kind of a perfect time at that time to just get out of the business. Things were changing and actually was a blessing more than I knew at the time. But she had just bought 14 rentals, and she was always what I would consider wealthy.

She'd always done really well. And so I talked with her. She introduced me to her banker, and it was the bank I started with. And I remember meeting with him. I sat down with a meeting.

He explained the process, and I remember, like, at the very end, I was like, so you're telling me I literally didn't believe him. I was like, you're telling me if I buy this amount of money and I fix it up, you'll refinance up to 80% of my money out. He's like, yeah. I was like, are you sure? I didn't believe him.

It seemed too good to be true. I was like, I can find a deal. I was willing to do the work. I was willing to put in somewhat equity and actually do the work. And, at the time, I was like, I can make this work.

So that's how I started specifically getting into real estate. I sold my agency, started buying properties. As I said earlier, I got outbid on so many properties. I was like, I gotta figure out something because I'm not gonna get as many deals as I want to.

Steve: So let me ask you this question because there's a lot of people that try to do something side.

Brian: Uh-huh.

Steve: Why did you sell your agency?

Brian: I wanted out of that business, and I it it was time consuming. The what I told my wife when I went home is, like, if I stay in this, I'm gonna die in, like, ten years of stress. Like, it was just too much. I had seven staff members, which is not a lot for a lot of people, but at the time, it was just more stuff to deal with. Renewals, everything changed in Oklahoma's a really unique insurance state because of the amount of storms we have.

Rates fluctuate dramatically. It's normal to get your home insurance to go from 1,800 to 2,400 or 2,800 over one renewal. And so it's a lot of disruption, a lot of sales. And I had people that would call. My name was on the agency, and the company I was with would not allow anything different.

So I'd had people who call back. I need to talk to Brian Higgins right now. And it'd be over a a minor a billing issue. They drafted the account on the fourth instead of the fifth, and they're upset about it. Mhmm.

Like, I'm canceling all my policies if I don't talk to Brian right now. And I couldn't get my name off of it. Or a lot of people with a business, you can distance have x y z insurance. They don't even know you exist. But I couldn't.

And so I was like, man, if I'm stuck here forever. And I saw real estate as a pathway to freedom for all the reasons that we do as well like what we do now. So we, you know, we're obviously still very involved in our business right now, but by choice.

Steve: So you mentioned in beginning that you acquired, like, fourteen, eighteen rentals, something like that before you got licensed. Yeah. And you had possibility to buy, like, 40 that you got bid out on. Yeah. I guess what you talked about the the wanting to create wealth that that's what got you down that road.

But the BRRRR strategy, like, you know, a lot of people listen to the show tend to be more wholesaler Yeah. Centric. What was it about BRRRR? What was it that attracted you to go down that road?

Brian: I could buy more properties with the least amount of cash possible out of my own pocket. So it allowed me to buy more without having to have I talk to people in real estate all the time and we get asked this question a lot of, you know, how you have a 160 houses? Do you have, like, $20,000,000 in the bank? Are you just super rich?

Steve: Daddy's rich.

Brian: Yes. Daddy's rich. I didn't have a rich dad. My dad was a pastor, never made tons of money, and that strategy allowed me to do that. I knew I could find a deal, and I knew I was willing to work.

I laid flooring. I painted houses. I fixed trim. I fixed plumbing, all those things I was willing to learn. And YouTube and Google are your best friend for almost anything in house if you're willing to do it.

Mhmm. I got to the point where I didn't need to because I found some good contractors that were reasonable and I could make numbers work that would still work. And so that was kind of that transition. But we get that question a lot from people. Like, how do I do this?

Like, I don't have any money. And a lot of people transition from host they get into wholesaling to get cash, to buy deals.

Steve: Right.

Brian: But putting 20% down, I can't afford to put 20% down on my portfolio. You know, it's just that's so much money. So BRRRR strategy allows you to do that. And I think you need to be willing to grind a little bit in work, and it is hard to do it on the side. But I know people that do that with a full time job, they work in the evenings.

Again, if you're going to do it, do it. You know? Buy that house. Learn to put flooring in. Buy a basic click lock.

Learn to do tile. Google's an amazing friend, and that process is very simple. That's the one thing about houses is beyond a few things like fixing a heat in our unit or some very specific things. Right. A lot of the stuff you can physically do yourself.

It's not terrible. You can get cheap help to help you just hourly labor. So

Steve: did you guys partner up initially right out of real estate school or, like, what was that?

Brian: No. That was just just

Alex: going around, you know. I would network network with wholesalers. We have a whole bunch of really good wholesalers in Oklahoma City.

Brian: I I still, at this time, didn't know what wholesaling homes was. Legitimate. Had no idea. I bought homes from probably wholesalers on Craigslist that I didn't know they were wholesaling. I just I was buying a house from

Alex: someone to listen on Craigslist. All I'm thinking is I need to be a person of value so I can be valued by him. Right? Because he didn't know it, but I knew he was gonna be my mentor. Mhmm.

Brian: Till this

Alex: day, he hates when I

Brian: call him that,

Alex: but he's my mentor.

Brian: Mhmm.

Alex: So I knew because we both had our licenses. It would make no sense for me to find, on market deals. Theoretically, he could do the same thing. So what am I gonna do? I'm gonna go I still don't really know how to wholesale, but I know wholesalers know how to wholesale.

So I'm gonna network with them, get on their buyers list, go meet with them, hang out with them, get to know them, get those deals first. Right? And then I would attach a finder speed. I'd ask Brian, like, please, like

Steve: when you you know, you've

Alex: never seen a deal like this, and he would look at the deal and be like, like, what is this?

Brian: I said, well, this is

Alex: an on market off market deal. We call it a wholesale deal. Mhmm. And he'd

Brian: be like, do you mind if I add $2,000 or whatever to it? I'm like, yeah. It's fine. Like, I didn't care because it was a good deal. You know?

Numbers worked.

Alex: Yeah. Right. Right. So pretty much it was February. Okay.

I'm still finding deals from for him on the side. I went on BiggerPockets for some reason. I haven't been on since, like, 2016. Okay? All I do was edit my profile.

And in that bio, I said, hey. I work with out of state investors. If you're an out of state investor, please email me. Give me a call. At that point, I only worked with one out of state investor, but, hey.

I'm not lying. So long story short, about a week later, I get an email, a long email, and I think it's spam. Right? So I'm like, what is this? You know?

So it's pretty much this person in a different state, in the Pacific Northwest, and she is saying, hey. I had this big group of investors. Right? Doctors, lawyer lawyers, Facebook people, whatever, people who work for Google, and we're looking to invest in the Midwest, but we're looking for a realtor to work with. Right?

So I still kinda thought, like, hey. Is it spam or what?

Steve: I get these emails. I always think they're spam.

Alex: Alright. So, you know, I'm gonna be honest with you. So she asked, like, can I interview you? And the only reason why I said yes to the interview is because I thought the the lady was pretty attractive. She had a portrait.

I'm like, sure. So whatever. So I remember exactly where I was. My Oklahoma friends tuning in right now will know. I was driving on 23rd in Portland just driving around.

I get this out of state number calling me, and I'm like, man, who is this? But I'm gonna pick it up because I'm a realtor. I gotta pick it up. So I picked it up, and it's her. So she immediately dives into the interview.

Right? So she asked me two questions that she asked several other realtors in the metro, and they did not know how to answer it. And she asked me, what is cash on cash return? And then she asked me, what's cap rate? And I answered it just freely.

Right? And then she said to me, she paused and said, no one's been able to answer that. Okay. And I laughed. I'm like

Brian: That's great.

Alex: I laughed. I'm like, really? Like, I just learned off of YouTube, honestly, like, couple weeks before.

Brian: Okay.

Alex: I didn't tell her that. So she told me she's like, hey. I wanna start sending you some deals. Or start sorry. She said, I wanna start working with you guys.

Guys. And can you please send me some deals? I'm like, sure. So instantly, you know, it's kinda ironic because I mentioned 23rd in Portland for a reason. Okay?

Kid you not. I get an off market deal from a broker. 23rd in Portland.

Steve: Okay? I I get the,

Alex: the p and l, the rent roll, email it to the investor and her. Five minutes later, it's in contract. I'm mindful. I'm like, but I'm about to sell an 18 unit apartment all because I just updated my bio on BiggerPockets saying, claiming I work with out of state investors. Right?

So, you know, that sale went through in the 2018, but then I have, like, 30 or 40 families. It's just annoying me. It's getting really stressful. Brian's all like, hey. How's that relationship going, you know, in Pacific Northwest with that person?

Brian: I got introduced to her at the exact same time and in talking with her. And so I got I built a relationship with her, but very, very minor just in general. He was the one this was his deal that he was doing. And, I was just helping him. He called me and asked questions about different things in the area, different properties coming up.

And so I was more I was in a weird way, like Right. Kind of consulting with them just to help. And so she called me one day, and she's like, hey. Like, I you know, I think we're just overwhelming out. It's just too much.

Right. Too many investors, which is a good problem to happen. It's like too many buyers. Mhmm. Right?

Like, that's insane. Right? And so anyways, he was getting deals and sending to him what they were doing they were doing properties, but it was just a lot. A lot of questions, a lot of new investors that require a lot of information, a lot of training, a lot of help along the way. Most of these people were not

Steve: Not sophisticated.

Brian: No. And they were not buyers that once we got them acquainted, you know, kind of accustomed to it, they understood more. They were all very intelligent people. Mhmm. Like, all of them were extremely intelligent.

And but I think a lot of them would fall into the analysis paralysis category Mhmm. Where it just they need a lot of information. That's consuming when you're constantly asking questions and they deal with the same they deal with the same circumstance in that, but that's the nature of what they do as a business. Right. And so he was like I tried to call him and

Alex: was like, actually, I haven't talked to Alex in a week.

Brian: That's kinda weird. And so Right. I called him. I was like, hey, man. You're gonna lose this, and this is my retirement plan.

Right? This is my retirement plan. You need to keep this relationship. So I'll help you.

Alex: Yeah.

Brian: So I'm gonna help you. Well, fifty fifty split, and I'm gonna help you. And so I I said get me to at the time, I said get me to 60 properties. I was at, like, maybe 45. Yeah.

So get me to 60 properties. I won't buy any more properties. I'll just help you. We'll sell and do really you

Steve: know, it it would it'd be

Brian: a very profitable business, and it was. And we that's that's essentially what started the transition to selling to investors.

Alex: Right. So it's just And it's January 2019, Brian decided to help me out. At that point, I'd sold, like, four properties to, you know, the West Coast. And then December 2019, a 120. No.

Brian: Oh, multifamily, sold a 37 units. Storage units. Sold a big storage unit north of north of my city. And, really interesting process. We learned a lot just in general.

It expedited so fast. I think a lot of people where you drink the fire hose Mhmm. And it's so much information. It's so much to do. I never planned to do a 120 rehabs in one year plus the ones we're doing for myself as well.

So we probably rehabbed a 160 homes that year.

Steve: Gotcha. So not only were you selling it to them, you're rehabbing it. Right.

Alex: So that's part

Brian: of our deal. We would sell it. We I

Steve: can see why you're overwhelmed. Yeah.

Alex: A little bit. Yeah.

Steve: I was thinking I was thinking, like, 40 transactions, like, whatever. No big deal. But We weren't

Brian: doing that at the time. He was just selling them properties and connecting them with contractors. Yeah. And they had connections with other contractors and property managers they were already working with, and that just wasn't gonna work. So when we started selling them, we said, hey.

We'll sell you the deal. We'll also fix it for you at cost, which is unique. No one does that. I mean, where can you call and get a BRRR property that someone takes care of everything

Steve: from you, including put putting a tenant in? Mhmm. And you're gonna you're gonna end up

Brian: depending on the appraisal and the appraisal and the rehab, they're gonna, of course, fluctuate because you're buying an asset property, but you're gonna end up with anywhere from 10 to 20% equity. We had some people that had 30 or 40% equity in unique deals Right. Where we try to be conservative on our numbers. We would never send out a deal that has a 150 ARV if we weren't sure, and we always would be on the low end. So we've had properties we sent out with a 140 ARV, and it'd be a 185 appraisal, stuff like that.

Right. But we would never have suggested a 185 ever in a million years because it was a unique circumstance. So

Steve: So what's the difference between what you were doing with the, investors in the West Coast versus selling turnkey?

Alex: Well, that's what it was.

Brian: That's what it was. So we basically would sell to them at a discount. We would fix it on on their dime, but we were doing it at cost. So they all they're all in around 80% as opposed to your typical buyers all in at appraised value. So they're buying and putting 20% down.

In this case, our investors are leaving with almost 20% equity in give or take five.

Steve: And what kind of cash on cash were they getting?

Alex: Oh, anywhere from 35 to a 100. Yeah. I mean, it's just ridiculous. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. That's not They're they're getting deals with

Brian: zero zero money. I mean, they're burying out of state deals, and they're not having to ever touch it. They send photos and send checks. Right. And I mean, that that doesn't we've talked to other people in CG as well.

We talked to other people that that have tried that model and had issues with it. And we have we have had issues the same. Our biggest thing is explaining to someone that as a contractor, if we give a rehab that's 14 to 16, if it comes in at $16,100, they're like, I thought it was 16. Like, what's the max? I'm like, well, we're doing this at cost.

Like, $16.01 was the actual cost. Like, we didn't mark up. There's no way for us to eat a $100 when it that's just what it actually cost. We're not making money on the construction side. And that's so weird.

I think people got hung up on the idea that they're expecting us, you know, we're making some kind of profit on the construction. So if, if there's a a budget overage or something like that You guys eat it. We eat it, and we weren't. And we also were doing $28,000 worth of work for 16,000. Mhmm.

Because we're doing it at the exact same cost we that we pay. So we're doing it at the absolute best cost possible. So explaining that, kinda going over that, that was one of the things that we learned to be more thorough, better communication, some things we learned. It was hard. Honestly, that first year was tough because we had so many deals Mhmm.

Unexpectedly in a short period of time.

Steve: So how did you guys manage that many properties to, as a contractor? I mean, you didn't have your DC license yet.

Brian: No. I do it. I just do it.

Alex: He's a lion.

Brian: Yeah. He's

Alex: Mufasa. Yeah.

Brian: He is.

Alex: It's a running joke, back in Oklahoma City that he's Mufasa. But in this story, he doesn't die. Yeah.

Steve: And I'm Simba. So, you mean, you just figured it out.

Brian: Yeah. Just like we talked about. And then,

Steve: yeah, that's what I was gonna say. That's something we talked about, just before this, you know. The the consistency or the the trait that we typically see. You wanna elaborate on that?

Brian: Yeah. The trait that we generally see, we saw another friend a mutual friend of ours on Facebook post about this, but a mutual trait that we see amongst people that are, successful but also just doing things at a high level, is that they just do it. Mhmm. They'll figure it out. We joke about this too, but they'll figure it out.

Right. And they'll dive in. They'll go and that's how I've always been. Once I understand a very basic understanding, my very first house I bought, I bought three. Mhmm.

I bought put one in contract immediately, put another one in contract, and three days later, put another one in contract. Because once I saw that I could make the numbers work, it was very simple and very straightforward and very clear. I don't get caught up in analysis paralysis as you do as well.

Steve: Right. We were

Brian: talking about that. That's one common trait with these people. A lot of people we see in CG and some of these things, they just do it. Yeah. And they'll take their lumps.

We've all taken our lumps in the business.

Steve: We're not perfect. No. We're just willing to fail.

Brian: I've been exactly willing to fail and being okay with it and knowing that I will just pick back up and do the same thing. Yeah. Right. Big fail, small fail, doesn't matter.

Steve: You know, I was having a conversation with my wife, a few months back, and the problem that we have, is that we just move at different speeds.

Alex: Yeah.

Steve: So, like, you know, let's say we we have a goal that we accomplish together. You know, like a financial goal, a asset goal, whatever. And it's great. We hit our goal. Right?

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: But then the next milestone, she's like, you know, we can just improve at 20%. I was was like, if we can just five x this. Yeah.

Brian: Is that rough? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

Steve: And so, like, I will never be satisfied.

Brian: Right. And

Steve: she's like, why can't we just move slower? I was like, but what's the point? Why move slower? Right.

Brian: That's that that's a common thought risk because mine's the same way. Why buy 20 homes when you could buy a 100?

Steve: Yeah.

Brian: If the BRRRR strategy works and you can make it work, why would you ever not buy? Yeah. Why would you ever stop? You could I mean

Steve: Let's just max out this credit card right now. Let's go.

Brian: Billion dollars in assets if you wanted to. If, you know again, perfect world. We all know there are deals. We've had everybody's had deals that go south. You had deals.

You have more money tied up than you expected. Yeah. Things go wrong. You buy a house. I bought a house in a week after when they turn on the the did an inspection.

It's one of the very first 18 I bought, MLS Steel. They did an inspection, turn on the power, check everything out. Everything's fine. I get there and I'm looking and I, like, I look up in the kitchen and there's a wet spot. And I was like, was that there?

It's like a little ring. And I was like, nah. So I left the next day. I came back and it was bigger, I was like,

Steve: is that bigger? So I took a picture of it.

Brian: The next day came back and it was, like, four feet wide and the furnace was above it and had an issue with the furnace. Mhmm. It was a lay down unit in the attic, and we did the inspection. It was off this whole time. So when they did the inspection, they turned it on, but it took about a week for the condensation to build up to leak into.

So I had to replace the furnace almost

Steve: immediately. Right.

Brian: You know? And I didn't budget or plan for that. It was fine and the deal was good, but that's just life. That's real estate. And I didn't freak.

I was just called around. And I that's I still to this day use the same heat and air guy. The guy that he bid he bid me a reasonable cost. I had people walk through, like, you gotta redo the ducting in here and blah blah blah blah. And he's like, I'll just put a new furnace in.

Like, that's fine. And so we still use that same guy to this day.

Steve: Because he's honest.

Brian: Yes. He was honest and straight he did there was no BS about it, but I learned that, and I didn't panic when that happened. So people panic. You're just like, hey. I'll figure it out.

And it was a great deal, and that always helps. Buying right, of course, is the key to everything. Right.

Steve: For sure.

Brian: Anyone would tell you. If you give the right price on your purchase, you'll find for most anything for the most part. So

Steve: So that was 2019.

Alex: Mhmm. 2019.

Steve: What about 2020?

Alex: So November 2019, I got a call from Brian. And, at this point, again, he has a portfolio of 60 properties. I just bought three that year, and I also made a lot of cash. And I'm kinda freaking out for tax season. But Brian surprises me with an amazing call, and he's like, hey, man.

All these properties you put in a contract? I'm like, yeah. He's like, we're buying them now. I'm like, why? He's like, we're buying

Steve: them now. I'm like, we're buying everything.

Alex: We're buying everything. So he was, you know, not fed up. That was a great experience working with, who we worked with in the West Coast. Mhmm. Made a lot of cash, helped a lot of people.

Yeah. You know, by Build generational wealth

Brian: for people. I mean, legitimate wealth wealth.

Alex: Right. So he makes that call, and I remember that November, we put 30 deals in contract.

Brian: It was on almost all of those in that same calendar year between, like, November 17 to December 31. I was like, we're buying it. I mean, that's where the OPM comes in because I was like, we're buying everything. If I'm gonna do all this work, I'm a work twelve hour days, fourteen hour days. My wife is like, you need to, like, you need to come back.

We need to reel this back in. Like, I have one part of, investors being at different time zones, I come in at five, it's three, or it's 7PM. They're getting off work Right. And they have a question. So they call, and I'm walking around my house at seven talking, playing with my kids, talking on the phone, and giving them the the due service that they deserve as clients, of course.

So we're talking, and I was like, we gotta do something different. So then talking with a friend of mine who's like, hey. Like, you should just keep all these deals. So you're doing all this work. You might as well keep it and build a wealth for yourself.

Yeah. So we did. Yeah. And we bought a 100 more than a 100, and we did still sell properties. So we sold properties.

COVID was a very unique year for everybody including us. Lending was an issue. That's where the the private money comes in. We used we started raising private money. We joined CG at that time and learned about other ways to do it.

The before all we had raised it, which is one way that a lot of people do is just by telling people. I was telling talking about what we were doing Mhmm. Not realizing that people would reach out to me later. Like, hey. I wanna lend to you.

I was just telling them what we were doing. I had no idea. It never crossed my mind to even ask or think that they would lend.

Alex: Right.

Brian: And we were just I was just, hey. We're buying houses and, you know, we're giving private money and we're paying this and getting this. They're getting a great return and we're buying these properties and that's that started that conversation. But we bought the majority of properties we we put in contract in 2020, and we sold I think we still ended up selling, like, '25 maybe. Yeah.

So extra

Steve: cash. So when did this, Berkey thing come into play?

Brian: We really from 2019, we started doing that and then that's we one of our clients coined that term whenever she called you because you're basically doing turnkeys but their Berkey's they're like Berkey's. And that's how it came up at that time. So we started jokingly calling that at that time Yeah. That term. But in 2020, we decided to keep the majority of them.

And it became an issue of getting lending during that time because of COVID hit. So that's why we started we started selling some as well and Yeah.

Steve: More of

Brian: that just going through the process with banks, with PPP and EIDL loans, all those things. Banks had a lot of reasons to take their time. Mhmm. Appraisers not going in property. So we were holding properties a lot longer than we expected, waiting on banks, found a lot of new banks, topped some really good ones, found the best bank ever that we've ever worked with during this process, which was awesome.

Yeah. And, but COVID was an interesting year. So then we decided to transition back to, hey. At this point, like, getting lending when your portfolio gets in the $1,020,000,000 dollar range, like, it just it's not that simple to just send some up. Some sometimes it is and it depends on the banks, but I was like, I don't wanna get in a situation where having to hold properties for x amount of time Right.

Unless we have. So we do this now as well with private money. And this is one thing like Jay Connor talked about. Well, Alex, I know we'll give him a shout out to Jay Connor and Eric Jenner, but Jay Connor is awesome. And talking about that, I know he does a lot of funding with private money where they're holding his properties indefinitely, see it's kind of singular focused.

I'm a very I I can definitely find myself getting singular focused. I just one way works and I just keep doing it Mhmm. Until someone's like, hey. What about this? I'm like, oh, that's a great idea too.

So, like, you know, I gotta reevaluate at the time. And so I j during that meeting, I was like, man, we could do that. So now we do that. When we raise private money, we changed our terms. We still offer a good interest rate, but we changed our terms on what we were willing to do.

That way, we can use that money indefinitely. So we have them sign one year agreements. We pay them at whatever payment structure they'd like, whether it was three months, six months annually. We give them that choice, and we pay them their interest at the time, but we took away origination fees, points, anything like that to get away from that. So we can hold properties a little longer without getting hammered and use it for multiples.

So if we have one one investor calls their $100,000, we'll just use another investor's 100 to to cover it Mhmm. And vice versa.

Alex: It's not that we were just getting hammered too. I would say we just didn't know any better. Yeah. We thought, you know, I'll just throw the number out there. We were getting charged four and ten, but we were getting a 100% of what we're asking.

Steve: Four and ten?

Alex: Yes. I know, Steve.

Brian: Wow. I know. But it's we had some that were two and twelve. We had some that were two and ten. It kind of varied on stuff, but part of that too, if I told you you could get that, you have all your money out including your your OPM fees Mhmm.

Factoring in the deal and you're gonna own a property outright with no with no cash tied up, like, it's still worth it to do. Our purchase prices are so

Alex: Wow. Different market though too. Yeah.

Brian: I'm gonna say. Right? That is

Alex: very true. Under a 100,000. Yeah.

Brian: So we don't have to do that anymore and that's part of it too. So now that change and it kinda was an eye opening experience that, you know, we talked to other, private money lenders in other states like out here where purchase prices are higher. Mhmm. They're doing two and ten, two and twelve. Some are less than that one.

Even less. Not Phoenix. Interest only? Not Phoenix. Any Phoenix private money people hit us up in this chat after we get an email in our I'm just kidding.

Steve: Well, but they have to be like, I mean, it's $9.95 doc fee.

Brian: Yo. Okay. Yeah. So we have But

Steve: no points.

Brian: What about appraisals?

Steve: No? Nothing? Yeah. So Okay. That's It's not a 100%, though.

Brian: For sure. Right.

Steve: It's not a 100% financing. But, anyway, so you guys are for 2020, COVID, obviously Mhmm. Was a challenge.

Brian: For sure.

Steve: How did it impact your guys' business directly as besides the financing part? I mean, there must have been some other challenges as well.

Brian: That was the main issue. We bought a lot of deals in 2020. So They did slow down a little bit from wholesalers, the MLS being so hot.

Alex: To be honest, I think it actually would help. You know? So appraisers wouldn't go in. So they would just get a scope of work, take a picture of the outside, and we get the value that we Yeah. Assumed it would be.

Yeah. Right? So actually helped.

Brian: There were things that helped for sure. We got more deals. We were still buying actively when a lot of people were nervous

Steve: about it. Back. Yeah. And you were just pressing forward.

Brian: Yes. And, we knew lots of in vet, like, lots of wholesalers that slowed their marketing or limited it completely. So there were less wholesale deals out there. There were still people actively looking and finding deals. So we were getting deals that way, but we also had, being willing to buy and just being willing to figure it out.

Mhmm. You know? I mean, ultimately, that that and and hold it with private money. We raised, I mean, I think just during this year alone, we used $9,000,000 of private money just during that COVID year.

Steve: That's not

Alex: four and 10, by way. Yeah.

Brian: Yeah. Correct. Correct. You're right. It was not four and 10.

Steve: So let's talk about that because that's something that's always an interesting topic.

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: Right. How did you guys raise 10,000,000

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: In funds?

Alex: Yeah. So pretty much, you know, we got introduced to Collective Genius. Mhmm. So shout out Jason Mendley, Frank Kava, and Leo Leon Barnes.

Brian: Corey Boatwright.

Alex: Corey Boatwright. He's the the local mogul in Oklahoma City. He referred us over. So I remember, you know, I was walking the office one day. Ryan's like, hey.

Come on. There's about to be a meeting. And, Jay Conner was on.

Brian: So I

Steve: didn't know who Jay Connor was

Alex: at the time, but he starts to go into his presentation of private money.

Steve: That's right when I joined.

Alex: Really?

Brian: Oh, yes. I okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex: Back in the spring.

Brian: Yeah. Okay. He's yeah. Mid mid of the year.

Alex: So he's pretty much you know, he has this whole, like, presentation, has all these flyers, and it's really just asking for it. Right? So I know we touched touched a little bit about that, you know, but just ask for it. And then so it pretty much became important to us after that call. We have to tell everyone.

We've been talking to a few people. Mhmm. Let's tell everybody. Let's just simply ask. We have credibility.

We've done this many deals. Right? Let's just ask. And then Austin and Jake Duraft, 23 year olds, they've been on your show before.

Steve: Crazy.

Brian: Killer. Killing it. Right? Yeah.

Alex: They they put a flyer on Facebook and it's like a light bulb. I'm like, well, okay. Flyer. Zoom call. Let's do the same thing.

Right? So we did the same thing. On that Zoom call, I think we had 12 people, including my mom, who never wanted to invest in our company at all. Right? And we converted four people, which then later on converted two more.

Brian: Mhmm.

Alex: So 12 people on the call and six people went wanted to invest at 12% interest.

Brian: Yeah.

Alex: And we were previously getting charged four and ten. So, just asking. Yeah.

Steve: Just

Alex: simply asking. I think a lot of the times we get afraid to ask because it just seems, how can I ask this guy for a $100,000?

Brian: Mhmm.

Alex: Right? Well, if you break it down and if you let them know it's backed by a mortgage and and I'm getting that 50% of the dollar. Hey, if I just so happen to leave the country, you get this house, but I'm in the process of buying foreclosed homes. I don't wanna be foreclosed on. Right?

So I just explained to people very basic and, you know, sooner or later, you'll get a few yeses. Yeah.

Steve: But 12 people came on the Zoom, and you guys raised $9,000,000.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: It's really good numbers

Brian: It is.

Steve: From nine people or from 12 people.

Brian: Right. For sure. Yeah. It and, really, honestly, part of that too, we churned properties aggressively because we were buying and refinancing aggressively as well, so that's part of it too. They may load us a $100,100,000 dollars to buy a house.

We refinance it three or four months later. We're buying it again. We already have a closing set up, so we're constantly turning. They didn't necessarily have 9,000,000 just set aside just for us. Right.

Steve: Got

Brian: it. And so that's part of it too. But yeah.

Steve: So you guys made a big transition, right, from 2019 to 2020 or, I guess, the 2019. Yeah. What were some of the challenges besides financing? Right? Because you got your operations, basically.

Yeah. You guys didn't want 80 in your operations.

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: What were some of the challenges operationally, you know, with an organization?

Brian: Really, for us, it got it it got, yeah, easier almost. As weird as that sounds, as weird as that I for me, I I generally am managing rehabs, managing the finances, managing a lot of the aspects of that business that for me, when it turned to where it was my money and not another investor's money, I I don't this sounds terrible to say, but I cared less. I cared more about the investor's money. So if there was a $100 wasted as opposed to

Steve: I think it's normal.

Brian: Okay. So I cared deeply, and that was very stressful 2019 because if our guys went to fix something and mess something up, they broke a toilet setting it or something like that. It was because of our process, it was gonna cost them another $100 for a toilet, which again is I know in the grand scheme of things is very minor. It was very stressful. When it was my money, I was like, yeah.

They broke a toilet. Like, we'll survive. It's a $100. I because I was a seasoned investor, I was used to it. So that made it easier.

COVID adding things, the cost of things changed dramatically. The cost of our labor and materials, all those things. Even currently, two by fours finally came back down to, like, a reasonable amount. But at one point, a basic two by four stud was, like, $7. When it went from $3.23 to $7.23 overnight, it felt like.

Steve: Yeah.

Brian: And so accounting for those costs, accounting for those changes operationally, he we were still doing things the same way because he was still looking for deals the same way with the same people. I mean, all that process stayed the same. So as we were coming in, we'd already got a we'd found all these new banks during that process. So we went through the we went through financials with half a dozen banks, it felt like, and they were slow every bank, for the most part, it felt like was slow playing the process because they were trying to they were waiting to see. It was election year.

It was COVID. It was what's the Fed gonna do? And some of those things

Steve: much. Yeah.

Brian: Yeah. And so it was just kinda yeah. It was a unique year. And so that delayed us. But for us, we just kept plugging along.

One, we've never bailed on a contract, and we never will. So if we put it in a contract, we will close. Even if we were keeping it selling, it doesn't matter. We've we have borrowed money from friends to close a property. You know, they just other buddies that knew us and knew even if it was for a day, an hour or or to you know?

Steve: Yeah.

Brian: 10 kinda deal. And we've done that. So that helped as far as closing deals. But just in general, the process was the same because we were still rehabbing homes the same way at the same rate, essentially. Yeah.

Steve: So it was kinda funny. We met, right, in CG in Tampa.

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: Right? And you had made a post, and your friends are like, oh, do you know Steve Trang? Right? Which I think is hysterical because I I was telling the story to my wife. It's like, their their friends are impressed that they know me.

And I tell my wife, like, these guys made a million dollars and they don't pay taxes. I am more interested. I wanna be them. So let's talk about

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: That. How do you how does someone get to a point where they're making a million tax free?

Brian: Yeah. Buying lots of properties in a short period of time Mhmm. And spending lots of money on rehab. Rehab.

Steve: Yeah.

Brian: So when they changed, I think it was in the, the last administration came into office. They changed some rules on accelerated depreciation, be able to take that upfront. So when you buy a property that you spend, let's say you put a roof heat and air, a whole bunch of different things to property paint carpet before you had to depreciate those assets out at different rates. Mhmm. Just like you do on a purchase, you know, a property 27.

And that is maybe through in Oklahoma, the purchase prices are so low that, you know, depreciating a house over twenty seven and a half years, that's a $100,000. Your cost base is is nothing. I mean, you're getting a couple thousand dollars a year write off. You do that though a 100 times in a year, that adds up real quick to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Add the rehab on top of that, being able to take that accelerated depreciation upfront and to, you know, put a roof on that you don't have to do it over fifteen years or putting heat and air.

And so we give us the option to do that. We will get to a point, right now, part of the reason we're able to do that is because we bought so many conversation with our CPA to do that to really get an additional breakdown. Right. A more detailed breakdown to structure what we just haven't needed to because

Steve: So going back to what we said earlier, you already done it once where you can do a million tax free.

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: Why just keep buying hundreds houses every year and keep So There's some plan people ask us our goals. I I don't know.

Brian: We we are. I it's exactly right. That so we still sell properties. It's nice to get easy cash. You know?

And we don't we don't pick and choose. If we put a house on contract, it's a house we were gonna buy anyways. Mhmm. So like I said, we had two we had we closed on a duplex and two single families this week that we sent out to our investors, and no one took it. Numbers didn't work timing, cash was out, whatever the reason no one took it and we didn't send it to a lot of people.

We just sent it to a few that we knew were buying right now.

Alex: And really quick, let me add if

Steve: any of my wholesaler funds are listing. It's not a

Alex: daisy chain. These are out of state buyers,

Steve: I understand that we work with. Correct.

Alex: Kind of offer us too.

Brian: Yeah. And that that's never our intent. I mean, like, so we don't mass mail out stuff. We just have a few people that we it's almost like preferred clients, if you was the best way to describe it. But Got it.

We, so we long story short, we still sell to those because the cash is easy to take advantage of. It's nice to get an influx of cash during that time for tax season hits, and you gotta pay taxes on a 160 properties. That's never fun. Mhmm. So it's nice to get that.

Steve: Property taxes. Yes. Right.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah. End of the year. It's proven. It's sad that my wife's like, is it like this every year?

I'm like, yeah. It just wasn't a 160 last year, so I didn't quite feel as bad.

Steve: So you guys do property taxes once a year?

Brian: Mhmm.

Steve: Not twice a year.

Brian: You can't no. You can pay half now.

Steve: Yeah. We do twice a year. That's why I'm I'm just curious.

Alex: Yeah.

Steve: Okay.

Brian: Our is January and March are those two big days that

Steve: Wow.

Brian: I know. It's weird.

Steve: That's painful. Yeah. It is.

Brian: Alright.

Steve: So you guys are acquiring lots of properties.

Brian: Mhmm.

Steve: So, you know, one of the things again, we we talk about, there's a lot of wholesaling here. So sourcing deals is important. Yeah. How are you guys sourcing deals?

Brian: That's probably one of the biggest things we would talk about specifically as far as and Alex touched on earlier, and I'll let him explain it because he that's really his forte thing. He's been extremely good at, during this process.

Alex: So he he touched on it. Well, one, we have a really unique, like, community in Oklahoma City. I think it's different than most markets. We all get along. Right?

So, I mean, we're a big big community of wholesalers, investors, flippers. We all hang out. It's not hanging out just to hang out. You know, we genuinely like each other. We would consider each other a family.

So, I mean, pretty much every day I'm hanging out with these guys. I'm evaluating deals with them. I'm the one. Again, I'm single, have no kids. I see their deals first.

I'm not gonna speak for every wholesaler in Oklahoma City market, but I would say three fourths of the the wholesale deals. We're receiving them first. And a big reason why is because like Brian said, we've never not closed on a deal. So your reputation is everything in this game, especially in Oklahoma. You know, we're a southern hospitable state.

We talk. Right? As soon as you mess up, someone knows.

Brian: Mhmm. So

Alex: the last thing we want is to put something in contract, not close on it, and now Jason's telling Jeremy. Right? So, hey, Brian now we still closed on that. That's the last thing we want. So even if I put something in contract, I put deals in contract fairly fast.

Pictures, we buy sight unseen. All the time. All the time. I would say 98% of the time because we're in a hot market right now. Yeah.

Even if I later on run my numbers and I realize, dang, we're gonna have, like, $5,000 tied up in this deal, we'll still close.

Brian: Mhmm.

Alex: Always. So all of my friends in Oklahoma City, they know no matter what, once we sign or verbally agree, verbal is big too. Once we say, hey. We want it, we'll never back out. So for anyone who's new in the game, your reputation with the real estate is super important.

If you mess up once, that could really dictate the rest of your real estate career. It'll be really tough.

Brian: Even if you're gonna be in a tight position, try to find a way to make it work. And if you absolutely can't explain your situation, it's like I can't. You know, I wanted this. Whatever your intentions are as long as the silent team, that will also spread too and can save your reputation just by being truthful.

Alex: Oh, yeah.

Brian: And that's one of our biggest things is being truthful. We're both people people. We're people pleasers. We like to Yeah. Have good relationships and keep good relationships.

And Right. They're, you know, some of the deals that we get in a lot of the times, the relationships we built are because we have built friendships with these people. I mean, a lot of the wholesalers, they're actual friends we meet. Take like, it's not it was there was never an intent in a business manner to do it, to make a connection with somebody for x y z. We are helpful to people.

They wanna run comps. They wanna run numbers. They run numbers by us all the time even on deals we don't buy. Right. And you've helped I mean, you've helped multiple wholesalers that are new in the game where they'll message them and ask questions.

He'll help them verify their numbers so they know even on deals we aren't buying,

Steve: to That's huge in the game too. If you're

Alex: a new wholesaler and your ARV is wrong, you don't wanna build up a reputation, from, you know, investors who are buying. You know, I get just long story short, I get deals all the time from investors or start from wholesalers, not even gonna look at it because they've already built that reputation from the get go. And I know it's not a deal. I won't even open the email.

Brian: And every everybody knows it.

Alex: Everyone's one of

Brian: those things that you build up that reputation of not knowing your numbers, not or not being able to justify. People will ask, how did you come up with that ARV? Do you have comps and, like, and the you know, crickets from crickets from that point. So Right. It's just because they're trying to move a deal.

Alex: They got Yeah. They got a skinny deal. They're trying to move Yeah.

Brian: Facebook has been critical for us, and I don't know how it is in Phoenix or some of the other markets, but in Oklahoma, the Facebook, there's some very good wholesale groups on Facebook, actual wholesalers that are doing good deals and Mhmm. No spam, you know, just very minimal if

Alex: it is.

Brian: And Right. That was very critical to getting connected with people.

Steve: Is it still that good? Yes.

Brian: Still, like in

Alex: fact, I wouldn't say I would say there's no spam. Yeah. I mean, there's maybe a comment a week of spam

Brian: Of Randall.

Alex: Trying to sell his skip tracing.

Brian: Yes. You know? So Skip trace leads and all that stuff. And so very little, but we built a lot of the connections we have through people. There are people one of our good friends, Jack, he has Jack buys houses these signs.

He puts all over the South side of the city. He's always done bandit signs. Everybody knows. I've known about Jack Buys Houses forever, and then I finally meet him, like, five years later. Four years later, I'm like, oh, he's Jack.

You know?

Alex: He's, like, one

Brian: of our best friends, you know, but it's just

Alex: We're the first ones up in the morning. Yeah. I'm at the point now, if I'm not there, I'm scared because I'm not gonna get the deal. Right? So They

Steve: get yeah.

Brian: It literally feels like that. Hey, you

Steve: know, byproduct of it a byproduct of

Alex: it as well. We're working out. We're staying fit. We're we're being being healthy. So it kinda works out, you know?

Steve: Yeah. No. Absolutely. So let's see. So you guys are all commodities, so there's not really a lot of competition.

Or is there still competition?

Brian: Well So there are a lot I mean, there's a lot of wholesalers in Oklahoma City and people would argue this competition. We just don't see it that way. Right. Just our personal, you know, kind of observation of it. It doesn't feel that way.

You do have and we know stories where two wholesalers, three wholesalers go to the same house, and we've heard of stories where, you know, you do have circumstances where maybe one wholesaler takes a deal from someone else. Maybe not in a not in a good way, you know, not in a reputable way, and it will affect them on getting deals and their connections with everybody else. And we all know about it. Right. I mean, just because we're so connected, but there are wholesalers that don't come to work out with us and that we still work with them, you know, like

Alex: For sure.

Brian: And, but, yeah, it's, the market is competitive. There are lots of wholesalers in Oklahoma City. Mhmm. We bought, last year, we bought deals from 33 different wholesalers. Right.

Steve: Wow. A lot

Brian: of them were multiples. Mhmm. And so that and we've had new ones even this year that are people we never bought deals from. And I looked we always keep, like, a list of deals that maybe went bad. Not not nothing was wrong, but maybe they didn't close because of a probate issue or seller disappeared.

You know, the seller stopped talking to the wholesale. Everybody knows that we keep those. I looked, we have nine or 10 of those that have happened, like, in the last year that were, like, something happened. And they were all from different people, like, every single one of them. But there are people we bought other deals from as well.

Steve: And the one off, it was just kind

Brian: of the unique one that Yeah.

Steve: So you guys aren't doing direct to seller then?

Brian: We are. We are now.

Alex: So CG has inspired us. In fact, we just hired, my cousin and then also a good friend. So we have two acquisition guys, and they're actually working right now.

Steve: Gotcha.

Alex: Probably watching us too, but they're working right now.

Brian: We we did some last year and some in 2019 as well, but very minimal. Just sending out postcards, typical stuff. They landed us deals, which it worked, but it wasn't like a structured part of our business. It is for 2021.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: So Got it.

Steve: Signed up

Brian: with a whole bunch of different providers. Yep.

Steve: So walk me through your typical deal. What does it look like?

Alex: Got it. Well, yeah.

Brian: Just I yeah. Pick one if you want.

Alex: Okay. Cool. I would see if we can do a recent one, like, actual example,

Brian: which is about 68.

Alex: 68? Mhmm. Let's get another one. That was that was skinny. Just a 111.

Steve: 111. So

Brian: we bought it for $78.05. It's a the house said it'd be in a $4.02. Right. We ended up renting it for 12 it was a smaller one, so we ended up renting it for $12.50, I think.

Steve: ARV $1.30. Getting it at? What are you putting into rehab? Gotcha. What are you guys refanging it out at?

And what are you guys cash flowing?

Alex: So $78.05 was the purchase. The ARV is $1.35. And then Brian's gonna go over the rehab real quick. How much we put in? I'm gonna look here.

Brian: We spent $12.04 $12.04 30 on the rehab.

Alex: So with closing costs, we're all in, like, 92.

Brian: Yeah. And then what

Alex: what's 80% of $1.35?

Brian: I don't know. It's like 110.

Alex: 110.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah. So

Steve: So then, are you guys also pulling out cash then? Yes. Anywhere is? Yes. All day.

Gotcha.

Brian: And it's tax free money?

Steve: It is tax free money. Now that's the best part. I wish we could do those in Phoenix.

Brian: Right. But no bankers or No.

Steve: It's just that the math doesn't work.

Brian: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Of course. I think the purchase price. Yep.

And Oklahoma.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, there's there there is an element of, what's what's the word I'm looking for? Is it jealousy? So, I mean, I hear, like, these people, you know, they're buying stuff for, like, for 20 in Mississippi. Right?

Right. Right. And running out for 800.

Brian: Rent and all them. Right. They're probably they can't say they bought a portfolio of like 400 homes. I'd say something like that. Yeah.

Something crazy. I was gonna look at the cash flow on that particular deal. I was just curious. What's our

Alex: average cash flow?

Brian: Our average cash flow is just under $500 a door. Yeah. So that

Steve: works route. That works really well.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Those numbers.

Steve: So then what what is your taking construction aside, what is for your operations, your monthly overhead then?

Brian: Well, we just added these two people. They're based plus commission. Our office rents, like, $330 a month.

Steve: Get out of

Brian: here with the $330 a month. I know. It's one. It's brutal. I know.

It's about the size, though. For for what it's worth, it's small. We have a lot of people back in. We don't have a ton. To be honest, it's different now with marketing.

Of course, we started bumping all that. We signed up for RealFlow and, Roar texting, and we just we're paying a guy to build up Podio for us. And we used Podio before, but very basic things. So our those costs are obviously all increasing dramatically for 2021. For 2020, we had hardly any of our costs.

Yeah. We have a transaction coordinator who's actually we made her a partner. She's awesome. Her name's Angela. She's incredible.

And she just she takes care of everything on the back end. I just in general, between myself and her back and forth, we talk and pretty much handle the majority of the operation stuff. And so it's mostly just her expense and just basic, you know, you think I like buying computers and printer paper and just basic stuff to be honest. We try to get away from that, so we don't have a ton of expense.

Steve: So is Corey one of the guys sending you guys deals? But right?

Brian: Yeah. We actually have we ever done deal with Corey?

Alex: We have.

Brian: I don't think we have. But Alright. Yeah. No. We I mean, we obviously see his deals.

No. We have through Speedy. So he he he partners with some guys there, and so we've bought multiple deals with them. Whether they came from or not, I'd probably some of them did.

Alex: Yeah. So just in general. Five to 10.

Brian: So yeah. Yeah. So some some of them came from.

Steve: So my question is this. If someone's in Oklahoma City, right, you guys make it sound easy. Maybe you guys make just make it seem really easy. What's to stop someone from doing the same thing you're doing if you're not having to source the deals?

Brian: They're doing it. We know people that are doing it. They're the same deal at a high level. Jimmy Ogle's one of ours, a good friend of ours, and Amin's John

Alex: and Jay. I

Brian: mean, there's there's tons.

Steve: Yeah. Eric. Yeah. So there are other people

Alex: doing it. Oh, for sure.

Brian: Investors. Yeah.

Steve: All day.

Brian: Okay. They do the same exact thing we do, and there's plenty of houses

Steve: to

Brian: go around. Yeah. They're buying multiple houses. Jimmy probably bought 50 homes last year. He's also a wholesaler.

He wholesale yeah. John Nolan, same way. Yeah. And, there are a lot of people doing that.

Steve: So there's nothing stopping anyone from doing the same thing?

Brian: Not at all. Got it. Not at all.

Steve: So you're saying I should just move those folks today.

Brian: You should you'd have to leave it here though. It's beautiful. My wife wants to move here. I'm dead serious. My wife was like, no.

No. We're gonna move here. Like, we need to buy a house, like, start looking. She's already looking at real estate. Right.

Yeah.

Steve: That's awesome. Well, she needs a good agent there. We got We'll know yeah. We'll know where to send her.

Brian: Got a

Steve: lot of agents here.

Brian: Close here too.

Steve: So, one question, that, I don't know if it affects you guys, but do you guys get demotivated? And if so, what do you guys do to jump back on the horse? Because that's something that a lot of newer entrepreneurs run into.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, I I can't really tell you why, but I'll go I think it's because, like, you know, almost everything is out there. So there's a lot.

Brian: I

Alex: do all the marketing on Facebook, Instagram. It kinda gets overwhelming at times because we have, you know, and him as well. But I have so many people hitting me up. I get to a point it's just so hard to keep up and I'm a people pleaser. I wanna get to everyone.

So there's seasons where I'm just like, maybe for one or two weeks, I'm just like, what am I doing? I can't do this anymore. But again, Mufasa.

Brian: I don't

Alex: feel that way.

Brian: I've never I'd also just never felt that way.

Alex: No. But in a sense, man, like, with without him, like, he is my motivation. Right? Like, just to get more deals to get up in the morning. You know, there was a time last fall where I stopped going to the gym.

He never stopped. Right stopped. Right? So if if it wasn't for him, I I would probably there'd be seasons that the demotivation would last longer.

Brian: Mhmm.

Alex: So really having an alpha, like Brian helped me out motivating me helps a lot.

Brian: That's okay. Thanks, man. Yeah. You gotcha. But no.

I I've never I've never felt that, but I know how it'd be easy to get in that. You know, a lot of people want negative thing, some bad thing happens, and it's easy to just kinda be like, oh my gosh. This is terrible. I think that's also a personality thing. So finding people to be around you, that goes back to going to the gym.

Going to the gym is is great for me, but it's exponentially better, I think, for you as far as the structure that it provides in your life. He needs

Steve: it more. For sure.

Brian: Yeah. Oh, for sure. I need it more. He needs it more for here. I need it for this.

He needs it for this. But it's the same concept there that getting in that circumstance where you have that accountability, you have that show up that drive. You show up and you don't it's like going to the gym. When you get up and run, you feel better when you're done running. But you did not when you got out of bed, a heater hit you and you're like, this is alright.

But, like, it's still just not it's not great, but when you get there and you get done, like, you feel even if you don't feel I don't finish working out at the gym. Like, oh, I feel accomplished now. Like, it's not like that, but I feel better. I don't feel tired. I feel yeah.

I I'm at it. We're talking to people. You're engaged with people talking. Our gym has a little nutrition center right, like, right with it where they sell shakes and teas and stuff like that. So a lot of times they'll sit and talk.

Yeah. So you kinda stay connected mentally as well as the physical side and but the structure really matters. So if someone is demotivated, they tell them to find a mo find accountability partner. Like, you're running buddy. You know, you're the accountability partner.

You get that that matters a lot to people. And it can keep someone even someone who is highly motivated and has the internal drive, they can still I look forward to going to the gym to seeing the people there. And I don't necessarily need it, but I look forward to going there to be around those people. Yeah. So it's the same concept for me.

Yeah. So I'd find an accountability partner, someone who is interested in what they're doing. That would help too if they're in real estate. That'd be huge. They don't have to go to a gym, but just finding somewhere to go.

And that's where, like, a Ria could be you know, if they is that really common around here? The local meetups?

Steve: Ria's. Yeah.

Brian: Oh, I

Steve: mean, they were a lot more common before COVID.

Brian: COVID. Yeah. For sure.

Steve: I shut mine down.

Brian: Getting connected. Yeah. And getting connected with just other people that are doing stuff. It's motivating when you're around people that are doing things.

Alex: Yeah.

Brian: Get connected to a buyer even if it's not not to bug them, but just to stay connected to someone who's actively doing everybody knows multiple people in town that are just buying it. It feels like they're buying everything. We appeal like Omega. We have a guy in town that buys tons of stuff, and we know multiples, Jimmy. And they know, you know, get on Facebook.

You'll see it. You know what

Steve: I mean?

Brian: You'll see you'll get ads for that. You'll get also so you'll

Steve: find them

Brian: and follow them. You know, it'll motivate you when they're closing on number 56.

Alex: You know, like, hey.

Brian: They bought 56 properties this year, you know. It'll motivate you to do it and it's it doesn't have to be competition. It just can be a driving motivation.

Alex: Yeah. Also, like, just in general, besides Brian because he's just not human. But the motivation for anything in life can go away just as fast as it came up. So having a circle of friends, whenever you're not feeling so motivated to get in your face and be like, hey. Where are you?

So example, Jack's missed the the gym the last three days and this is real. So, Jack, Juan, I know you're watching. Get to the gym. Yeah.

Brian: I

Alex: mean, it's that accountability. Right? Yeah. People are getting in your face. Hey.

Why aren't you there? Right?

Brian: So And it's not to it's no judgment. It's just to motivation. Like, hey, man. It motivates me to see you there. Mhmm.

And I look forward to it. I look forward to that. So the friend circle, anybody who's doing it, that'd be the biggest thing. That doesn't seem like something that would be necessarily hard to find. I feel like you could find that pretty easy.

Steve: Right. You know? Well, if, how do I put it? If you're the kind of person that they wanna hang out with.

Brian: Correct.

Alex: You gotta

Steve: be that kind of person. To. Yes. Fair point. Alright.

So, Bryce is laughing at the at the comment about Jack on. Bryce. So Toby Ima, hopefully, I'm saying their name correctly. How can they send you guys deals?

Alex: Toby? Mhmm.

Brian: Is

Alex: he local in Oklahoma City?

Steve: I would assume so.

Alex: Yeah. Alexmoses.realtor@gmail.com. I'm not gonna put my number out there right now. Do it.

Steve: Well, you can you can add me live.

Alex: Please stop.

Brian: You

Alex: can add me on Facebook right now. I mean, I'm as soon as I get done with this, I'm gonna check my Facebook Messenger.

Brian: Add us on Facebook Messenger. You're in t Messenger. Text message, email. Mine's blhpropertiesllc@gmail.com.

Steve: Yeah.

Brian: And send deals, we'd love to look at them.

Alex: Instagram, alex moses underscore real estate,

Brian: I think. Don't find my Instagram has nothing on it. It exists, but it there's not literally Yeah.

Steve: It's scary. So there's a comment earlier. So hopefully, they're still here. It's, how do you guys deal with the six month holdback requirement, for a cash out refi?

Brian: We don't. We don't. So a lot of banks call a different bank. There are plenty of banks out there that, you know, commercial banks. We're doing commercial loans.

None of our loans are in our personal holdings. There is a way to do that if you're gonna buy on a conventional. You can do a short term loan, like a hard money loan or so we've done this before where we do, I'll give you two scenarios that would make it make sense on the conventional side. Because the commercial side, if they want a six month holding seasoning, call a different bank. There are plenty of banks out there that will that will do it without or three months or shorter.

And and if they tell you six months, ask them for an exception. It's like, hey. Is there an exception to this? Half the time, they'll do it.

Steve: Yeah.

Brian: On the conventional side, one of the ways we did this because a lot of our buyers in 2019 did conventional loans. So in order to work around the six month seasoning period for a cash at refi 80%, we would actually do a hard money loan if they need if their all in cost was a 100,000 and that's what they needed their loan to be, we would have a hard money lender or a private money lender or their parents loan them my their brother, sister, aunt, uncle, doesn't matter, whoever would do the loan, we'd have them quote loan them a $100,000 and write a mortgage for a 100,000, then they could bypass the seizing by doing a rate and term refi of a $100,000.

Steve: Got it.

Brian: So we would just structure it the right way on the front end so they could do a rate and term without having to wait.

Steve: That's awesome. Yeah. What is your biggest struggle right now?

Brian: More deals? I don't know. I just, Thinking. I don't Yeah.

Alex: I don't wanna make it seem like we don't struggle. Yeah.

Brian: Everybody's struggling.

Alex: Lately, it's been amazing.

Brian: I won't

Alex: say that. Yeah. Biggest struggle

Brian: I would I would say just in general, it's always time management. Good when it's good and when it's bad. Right. Time management is always a struggle. When it's good, you feel like you have lots of time, you feel like you're kind of on it, but there's always things you could be doing that's more efficient with your time.

You can always be more effective. I use an example of a salesman working the best salesman you've ever met in your life could work two hours of work a week. Let's say ten hours a week. Let's say they work ten hours a week and they get forty hours worth of work done or forty hours worth of production, if you will. My thought process as a business owner has always been like this for me of, okay.

You're working ten hours. I want you to work forty hours and get two hundred hours worth of production out. Not but that's not how that's not the real world. I know exactly shaking your head because it's true. But that's my thought process.

There could always be more. If you you know, without pushing the limits, without working, you know, again, some people are willing to work fifty hours a week, sixty hours a week, but even still like working a minimum of forty. I feel like you could get if you could if you're ultra productive, you should just be incredibly like the you know, incredibly productive if you just put in that that amount of hours.

Steve: Yeah. I think you find that unicorn, let me know.

Brian: Correct. It doesn't exist. I know. I know.

Steve: And then what is your guys' superpower? I'll start with Alex.

Alex: I don't know if this is a superpower, but I I would think I think most of my friends can attest to this. Like, when I first met them, you know, the ability for them to trust me, the first impression. Right? So just being myself and, you know, like, right now I'm a little nervous. Right?

But just in general, you know, just talking to somebody, I I always believe that they trust me right after

Brian: that. Mhmm.

Alex: I'm not not being myself, not BS ing them, just having the ability to have one encounter and they trust me.

Steve: Yeah. So instant trust.

Alex: Instant trust.

Brian: I would say that's mine too. Building rapport just immediately. I did I I had an insurance agency for those years before and it was so easy for me because when I walk into not easy. Nothing is easy, but I mean, it just I can I people don't put up their guard right away? You know, just I I I guess I'm not an alarming person.

Like, oh, we're gonna be careful of this guy. You know? Like, we're very straightforward, very honest, very I don't think the best way to say it, but just Disarming. No. I just mean like disarming.

We're we're disarming people and so just and we're friendly. Like, I will be polite to anyone. I would if I don't agree with you on something, I'm not you would never know it. Mhmm. You know, I'm gonna be polite and talk and act like, you know, treat you like a human.

Treat you like you should be treated, and that's part of we've always been able to build rapport. We both have that building kind of that building rapport thing. I like to I can handle a lot. I will say, like, just in general. I don't get stressed very easy.

Mhmm. That's one of the things. If I had to describe, that would probably be mine is just not being able to handle a lot without being completely overwhelmed

Steve: with stuff. And what is the single greatest lesson you've learned?

Alex: Never leave Brian.

Brian: No.

Alex: In in real estate or just in life?

Brian: Or

Steve: In general. Yeah.

Alex: Greatest lesson I've learned. That's a good one.

Brian: That is a good one.

Alex: I don't wanna give a cliche answer for that. I know. You can go first if you can.

Brian: I would just can we edit this? I don't

Steve: know. Yeah. I'm just kidding. No. We could jump on some No.

Brian: No. I totally joke. I totally joke. Just be truthful. Yeah.

Just in general, so many people, like, get stuck in a position where they don't know what to do, they don't wanna say, or they they don't wanna let someone down and not being able to just tell them.

Alex: Right.

Brian: You know, tell them, hey, it's this or this. Tell them the scenario. Be real with them and tell them, apologize. If if it's a bad thing, apologize and just to be truthful with them. That's and and I don't know that I had to learn that.

I've learned that lesson my whole life, but just in real estate, that's so applicable to what we do now. Okay.

Steve: Well, that's one of the most aggravating things. Yeah. Yeah. Is, someone screwed up

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: And now they're silent. Yeah. And then then when finally get hold, it's like, oh, my mom was in the house. I was like, again? Like, come on.

Brian: Yeah. You know it's not true. You just just tell me. It's okay to it's life happens. You know?

We're real people. Everybody understands. We're understanding people and most people are if you explain it to them.

Steve: Brett Murdoch is telling me to stay out of Mississippi. Is there a book you've gifted more than any other? Me? Mhmm. You have the Bible?

Yeah. The Bible? Yeah. Both of you guys?

Brian: Yeah. I'm that's the only I'm not a reader. So It's terrible. It's embarrassing to say.

Alex: Story, like, in itself is the story redemption. I didn't really touch on, like, my childhood.

Brian: But, you know,

Alex: if you look at the front to the back of the Bible, it's all about redemption. So Mhmm. I said, why would you?

Steve: Cool. And then Alex Mangia. I'm gonna Mangia. What are your goals for 2021?

Alex: Thousand houses, Alex. This one

Brian: Buy more deals from you? Yeah. He's a he's a good wholesaler. He's a great wholesaler. Like, one of the best in the city.

Steve: Buy a thousand or get to a thousand?

Alex: We'll we'll do a. I wanna do a 150, sales and and houses. So whether that's a 100 bought and 50 sales or, you know, vice versa.

Brian: Yeah. A 150 transactions.

Alex: Our our

Brian: annual meeting. That was kind of our goal for this year. And then if

Steve: it if we do work

Brian: that, it's fantastic. I think we'll get to that

Alex: at least. I think so.

Steve: And then Abby Giles wants to know what's form marketing you guys are using to get your leads. I know we talked about you guys having wholesale to send you guys deals. Right. Is there a form marketing you guys are using to get your leads?

Alex: Doing it now since we've hired the acquisitions, guys.

Brian: We're gonna

Alex: be doing SMS blast

Brian: Yeah.

Alex: In cold call.

Brian: SMS. We're using Roar for the SMS side. We'll do RBMs with a different company. Yeah. And, we signed up for RealFlow.

It's just a for lead they do an AI lead gen. It's a CG member. Mhmm. And then as part two, we hired two acquisition managers to basically call, text, all that stuff to do,

Alex: to just start a 100%.

Steve: We'll do we'll do post

Brian: grad it's interesting. We've gotten different feedback from different wholesales we talked to right now about SMS specifically. Mhmm. And the concern that that's gonna go away in six months or whenever. Oh, it's not

Steve: sure going away.

Brian: Yeah. And so when that happens, they're already starting to preemptively plan for what they can do on the phone, which is kinda going back to mailers. Mhmm. And so we talked to multiple people that said the same thing. So we're gonna still do mailers.

We're gonna pick up pretty heavy, but then in talking with people, it seems to be doing SMS until it's gone.

Steve: Everyone's different.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: We already abandoned text messaging. Yeah. A key

Alex: a key marketing point that we're having our guys back at the office, like, put on a card or text messages. Hey. We own a 160 rental properties. Look us up. We want yours to be one sixty one.

So we we think it's gonna work. It's actually Joe's actually got, like, three deals this week. So Yeah. We just started.

Steve: That's tough. Yeah. Different. Yeah. We're anonymous in our text messages because we don't wanna get sued for TCMA or TCPA.

Brian: Yeah. That's why we chose Roar specifically because it didn't well It's supposed to protect you. We'll see.

Steve: Yeah. I don't believe it. Have that guess. I don't believe anybody's protecting you.

Alex: Casey told us by

Brian: the way.

Alex: So Yeah. Shout out.

Steve: Alright. Cool. So, let me make a, couple announcements, and I want you guys to think about your last thoughts that you guys wanna share.

Brian: Yeah.

Steve: So guys, please, if you guys like this, please like, subscribe, share, comment. It helps us in the algorithms. And if you guys haven't had a chance, you gotta check out our book on Amazon Active Listening two point o. We do have Terry Thayer coming next week. He's gonna be talking about how he's making 6 figures a year working five hours a week.

So that sounds pretty fun as well. So for you guys each of you guys, I'll start with Brian. Last thoughts?

Brian: Last thoughts. Buy real estate. It's life changing for people. And I know you know this and the people that listen to the show know this, but it's extremely life changing to build generational wealth with income. There's so many different perks to real estate from the tax side to income side to, I mean, all those different facets of, your, income and wealth.

And you can really build generational wealth, and you don't have to do it extremely fast. You don't have to buy a 160 homes in a couple years, and you don't have to do those things in order to really reap those benefits. It literally is a life changing thing. And if you don't know someone, call us, message us. We'll answer questions, hell with people.

Just it doesn't matter if you're in our market or not. We can tell you we can answer your most basic questions. Real estate is the same no matter where it's at. Just in general, the numbers just might have a different zero, you know, an extra zero or two on it. It's the same concept.

Grant Cardone does the same thing we do. There's just more zeros. Mhmm. You know? And so it's the same concept, different area.

And so I would say, find a mentor or find someone you can ask questions on. You have so much content on your website, on Facebook, everything. There's so much content in this this podcast that, there's no reason for someone to not jump into real estate and have a pretty good understanding, but just to do it. Dive in, you know, and that and ask questions if you're not sure. People are willing to wear out.

There are a lot of people including us that are willing to help answer questions. Yep. And so I would say just buy real estate. It's it's worth it on so many different levels.

Steve: It's great emphasis and reminder even though we know it, it's a great reminder.

Alex: Yeah. Yeah. I I would say, find a mentor. So if you're new to the game, whether you're a wholesaler, or you wanna invest in real estate, work for free. You know what I mean?

Be a person of value so you can be valued by them as well. So working for free is big time. In fact, if I if I were to see that today in my messages, I wanna give advice to that person. I want that person coming to the gym with me. I want that person being around me.

Right? So Yeah.

Brian: Be a

Alex: person of value, find a mentor, and get started.

Steve: And again, one last time, how can someone reach you?

Alex: Facebook, Alex Moses, email, alexmoses. Realtorgmail dot com, and then Instagram, you can just type in Alex Moses, and I should come up.

Steve: So Got it.

Brian: Mine's Brian Higgins on Facebook, and it's BLH Properties LLC at g mail dot com.

Alex: Last thing, we're always looking for private money, so hit me up. Always. Yeah.

Brian: We pay well. We pay well just to say that. So And we're totally fine with that because the numbers make sense.

Alex: Yeah.

Steve: Awesome. Cool. Alright. Awesome. Thank you guys for watching.

Thank you. Thank you.

Brian: Awesome. Appreciate it. Thanks, Steve.

Steve: It's a lot of fun. Yeah. It was. Great job.

Brian: Hi. You did good.