Greg Herline: I think it's bullshit. So many people say, oh, if you find the right deal, the money will follow. That's only true when you've had success. But if you're new in the business and or even new meaning like the first five years, money's always the heart. I had to go and find who was going to be my lender and to to do an actual deal.
I learned that someone could lend me their IRA and be the equity and partner with me in a deal and that opened up a whole new world to me. I had no money, they lent me $60,000 to do a condo in Las Vegas. He made almost $12,000. I made three or four, and I was like, is this gold? My first deal was with somebody's IRA, and that's why I'm in this world today.
Steve Trang: Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of disruptors where millionaires are made. Today, we have Greg Herline with Horizon Trust Company, and Greg flew in from Orange County to talk about the secrets to where trillions of dollars is hiding in plain sight. Now, guys, I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. The information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. If you'll take consistent action, you'll become one.
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If you want to hear what our AI lead manager sounds like, text AI caller to the phone number 33777. Again, that's AI caller 33777. You ready?
Greg: AI caller. Love it. Yeah.
Steve: Call it.
Greg: I'm ready.
Steve: This is the future, man. It is. It's kinda nuts.
Greg: It is totally nuts.
Steve: So, so thank you for coming on the show. We've,
Greg: I know I mentioned a boardroom. Been really looking forward to this. And I share with you,
Steve: I really want to get someone who can talk about this topic because it's critically important, but it's still kind of, like, hazy for a lot of people.
Greg: For sure.
Steve: But before we get into all of this, let's talk about what was your life like before you got in to real estate?
Greg: Well, before I got I got into look. I was I was my dad was in the air force, and I lived my life like probably most people. So I was going to school, went to college, went on a mission. And after my mission, I went to one more semester. So I was technically a sophomore.
And I'll never forget this. I went home, and I for I forget why, but I went home, and my mom set me up on this date. And and so and she, you know, she was anxious for me to get married. I was 22 years old, 21 years old, and I met this girl Mhmm. For lunch.
Go to lunch. Afterwards, you drive by her house. I don't know why it's aggressive. Right? But that was what happened.
We drive by her house. Her dad is outside on a Wednesday or Thursday afternoon at 02:00 washing his boat in this huge house.
Steve: Washing his boat.
Greg: His boat. And so I'd only seen this on TV. And so I know, like, we see these you know, we hear these things. But as a 21, 22 year old, you know, dad was in the military, didn't, you know, didn't have money to see her dad home at 02:00. That's what impressed me.
Oh, that's pretty different. Yeah. The the boat's cool. The house is incredible, but your dad home at two. And so I just was like, whatever he's doing, I've gotta do that.
So I literally had to make a decision. Am I gonna drop out of college? I never went and did this girl again, but I did call her dad and was like, hey. Are you looking to hire someone? I'll I'll work for free.
I wanna know what you do. Didn't even know it was real estate, by the way. Mhmm. I just wanted to live, like, how I saw in that moment. And that's what actually was one of the biggest turning points in my life, frankly.
Steve: It's kinda like, the scene in Wolf of Wall Street. Right?
Greg: Like, you
Steve: show me a check.
Greg: Kinda. Yeah. It's like, I don't know what you're selling. I'm not what you're doing. Thankfully, it wasn't, like, illegal or drugs.
But but it but it was really relationship building in the real estate world, and that's what I learned. And and it was it was one of the best decisions I've made.
Steve: So you drop her off, and then that was it.
Greg: That was it.
Steve: But you asked her for her dad's phone number right then?
Greg: I did. Actually, I I actually didn't ask her. That was I I asked my mom. I'm like, so do you have the parents' phone number? So I didn't, like, call her back.
And, you know, we joke around about it years after that.
Speaker 2: But
Steve: Yeah. But that's awesome. So you you were clear, eyes on the prize. You know what you wanted, and then you sought out to get it. So, you reach out to this guy.
Like, was there any resistance? Or
Greg: Not too much because I was young, eager, and had the right attitude. And and and all these things I share, you know, I've got a 24 year old who's in business now. He listens more than my 18 year old, but people ask, like, what's your secret? I'm like, let me tell you how you started because if you can get something from that, that's the secret. Like Mhmm.
Good attitude, right energy, work your ass off. Like, all these things are important, and that's what I did. And I didn't take no for an answer, and I said, hey. I'll come work for free. It wasn't like I couldn't afford it.
Right? I was gonna have to live with my mom, but I was like, I'll work. I just want to learn what you do. Mhmm. So I did everything from coffee to laundry to taking all his notes, but he then he started letting me sit in all his appointments.
Mhmm. Back, you know, twenty five years ago, you'd write notes. Right? And so and so I would AI. Yeah.
Not AI. We would take notes, and I would just listen. I'd see what was happening and how they talk and what kind of deals they're talking about. So I was just learning as I was a sponge.
Steve: Taking notes is, like, what's what's being said in the meeting or just notes for yourself to learn?
Greg: What was being done in the meeting and what they were talking about because there was always follow-up. Typically, when he was meeting with an investor or a realtor or some kind of a business person, there's follow-up. And so he would do not he was just having the conversation. I was the note I was, like, the secretary.
Steve: Right.
Greg: But it couldn't have been a more valuable situation I was in. I only lasted six to eight months mostly because I actually learned so much that I also didn't really enjoy this individual. Mhmm. But I'm still grateful for the situation, but I learned enough, and I especially thought I could go do it on my own after that. Of course.
And and, you know, it was a little harder than I thought, but but, I did begin the process then.
Steve: But I think the the humility, right, of, like, hey. Can I learn from you? I'll work with you for free, and then you got to sit in the meetings.
Greg: Mhmm.
Steve: Because that's where the money is made.
Greg: Right.
Steve: Right? Like, you got to hear what the conversation is, who they're talking to, how they're talking to, how they're talking to, how
Greg: they're talking to, how they're talking to,
Steve: how they're presenting themselves.
Greg: That's right. That's right. It it was it was the best thing, and that's one of the first things I'll tell people. Like, you wanna do x. Well, first of all, like, go sit in that person's office.
Like, because you might sit there for a minute and be like, I don't this is what I wanted a dream to be, and this is not the thing I wanna do. And so I think it's really important to to go and live that world even if it's for a day, a week, a month first.
Steve: I mean, I could say, like, not everyone knows this. I mean, I think a lot of people know this, but, like, I have a master's degree in electrical engineering. Like, I went four years of college, and then, I decided to become a PhD candidate, which meant, like, another, like, three year commitment. And after, like, a year in, I was like, this is dumb. Right?
Yeah. So I have I I graduated my master's degree, and I worked at Intel for for three and a half years. Okay. But it wasn't even a year that I knew this was not for me. It.
And I spent all that time. And, like, when I know when I quit, everyone was like, but, Steve, you spent all this time, energy, effort to do this. How can you walk away from this? So I think what you're talking about, like, hey. If this is the direction you wanna go, just spend a day there.
Greg: Make sure this is everywhere you want to do.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. That was really smart. Okay. So, what were the biggest lessons?
Before we talk about you going out on your own, which will probably be another really interesting story
Greg: Yes.
Steve: What were the the biggest eye opening, moments for you? Because you're coming in, like, with a blank slate with very different expectations.
Greg: The biggest eye opening was hearing what investors wanted as far as terms go.
Steve: Mhmm.
Greg: I I that you know, I I feel like there is, like, a a class or a degree on almost everything that I learned. Like, it was like fire hose. Like, every week, I'd learn something. But understanding your investor and what they're looking for Mhmm. And the terms they want was gold, complete gold.
And and and that will carry over to probably the next segment. We're gonna talk about how in the next next part. But understanding terms and investors in those relationships was was probably the best thing I could have learned. Mhmm. Let let alone, you know, just different relationships.
I got to see who he was using for his, you know, legal work and and for his renovations. And and so many people and that look. I, including myself, have to go through some tough situations. Bad attorneys bad attorneys, bad renovations, bad con you know? Oh, yeah.
You you go through that. And so I got to kind of, I I feel like, skip some of the bad people, or relationships, but I didn't skip all of them. I found them.
Steve: So Okay. So he really shortcut the process for you.
Greg: He did.
Steve: Okay. And then, like so many of us and people we've hired, it's like, well okay. Now I've learned everything.
Greg: Yep. That's right.
Steve: I can go do this on my own. That's right. So what was that like, taking that leap?
Greg: I it was exciting. I, you know, I I I was like, look. All I've gotta do is, like, make 2,000 a month Mhmm. The rest of my life, and I'm good. Yeah.
Right? Because I've been living on, like, a thousand dollars. So, like, 2 would be a win. So so, you know, I I I learned very quickly that I was not bankable. Mhmm.
So banks wouldn't lend me money. My family had no money. My friends had no money. Mhmm. But I found I was finding great deals.
Mhmm. And and so I thought, look. If you find a great deal, the money just comes, which by the way, I've now still on many stages with many celebrities who talk about that, and I think it's bullshit. I'm sorry. Can I curse?
Because I am. So many people say, oh, if you find the right deal, the money will follow.
Steve: Mhmm.
Greg: That's only true when you've had success. But if you're new in the business Yeah. And or even new in meaning, like, the first five years, money's always the hard part. Yeah. And even now, successful people, I've learned if you wanna scale, money is still the hard part.
Mhmm. But I learned real quick that money was, a problem. And so I had to go and find who was going to be my partner, my lender, and to to do an actual deal. Mhmm. And so, I happen to have met somebody through a conference I went through during that little six month, eight month stint who talked about the subject we're gonna talk about a little bit more today, which is self directing.
I learned that someone could lend me their IRA Mhmm. And be the equity and partner with me on a deal. I learned that at the age of 23.
Steve: Yeah.
Greg: And that opened up a whole new world to me. So my first deal I ever did, someone lent. I had no money. Mhmm. I they lent me $6,060,000 dollars to do a condo in Las Vegas.
I gave them 75% of the profits. I kept 25%, and the deal flipped in ninety something days. He made, I think, almost $12,000. I made three or four, and I was like,
Steve: this is gold.
Greg: Yeah. It
Steve: was all day every day.
Greg: And so I I did. Right? I made mistakes along the way, but that's how I did my first my first deal Mhmm. Was with somebody's IRA. And that's why I'm in this world today.
Steve: I didn't ask this. So the guy that you learned from, he was a flipper?
Greg: He did. He was more in the lending of real estate, but also flipped commercial buildings.
Steve: Okay. Got it. And then so your first foray foray into real estate, you did it?
Greg: Condo. I did a condo. Okay.
Steve: Yeah. Any reason why you decided to go in that direction?
Greg: Because that's all I could afford.
Steve: Okay. Makes total sense. And
Greg: Don't worry. I I decided to go to hotels and condo. I mean, in in condominiums and stuff. But
Steve: So, that was your first deal. And then what where were you?
Greg: Las Vegas.
Steve: Las Vegas. Okay. So how are you even finding deals?
Greg: So there was a couple there was a couple ways. And this also came from from Chris. Right? So Chris had these, like, bird dogs. I know what we call them now today.
Right? Well, there was a lot of deals that Chris, the guy I worked for, would pass on. So I got to meet this individual. I also learned just different realtors. So I literally knocked doors on different realtor.
I I went to realtor's office saying I was investor, saying I had money Mhmm. And I was looking for investment properties. I was doing kind of the things I I'd gone to a few conferences. Right? I was just absorbing.
So between hearing from him and going to conferences, I was I was literally knocking on doors. I was going to realtor offices. I went to a title company. Just one. I should have gone to more.
Yeah. But it was just building relationships. And so, this bird dog guy, though, he's the one that got me this first condo.
Steve: What was fascinating is this was twenty years ago?
Greg: Twenty this was twenty four years ago. Twenty four years ago.
Steve: This still works today. You can go right now and go to realtor offices. Like, I'm an investor. I I'm looking for deals. What do you have?
That still works today.
Greg: People aren't doing it because they're using AI and they're using VAs and all. Like, there's there's something to be said about face to face, shaking a hand. Yeah. You'll get more deals than somebody else.
Steve: It's funny. I was actually consulting with a company this morning, very successful company, one of the biggest operators. And they were talking about, like, how do I do this? Like, well, you have to build relationships with realtors. Like, they're wildly successful.
They're like, hey. We haven't figured out this piece yet. And I that was the I just gave them this morning.
Greg: It's it's sound advice. Yeah. And you you knock enough doors, you know, open shake enough hands. You're gonna get one out of 10 or 20 that say yes or give you a deal, and it it's all it takes. Yeah.
And when you when I'm 23 years old, I'm not afraid of anything. I'm not afraid of talking to anybody. Mhmm. And so that's that's something, you know, that I learned at a young age and that, you know, some people can't do. And that and and people say that to me.
Well, I can't do that, or I have a full time job. Find someone who's good at that.
Steve: Right.
Greg: Have them do it.
Steve: Well, you do also have a competitive advantage. You know, like, you knocked doors overseas.
Greg: Two years.
Steve: Where did you go?
Greg: Ecuador.
Steve: Ecuador. Yeah. Right? So you door knocked for two years. Selling something was really difficult to sell.
Greg: Yes. Right? God to people who already believe in God.
Steve: Yeah. That's a pretty difficult thing to sell. So you already have, like, the I imagine day one of your missionary was very different to day 700. Right? Like, the callus probably your your the callus on your knuckles.
Greg: Oh, totally different.
Steve: Right? Totally different. So, not to say, like, as as an excuse to anyone else or say, like, you know, like, this is, like, this tremendous advantage, but, like, you did have a little bit of practice, a little bit of training.
Greg: 100%.
Steve: So, you know, if you guys are afraid to go knock on realtor's doors, go sell religion first, and you'll get all the practice you need.
Greg: Go sell go go sell pest control door to door in the summers or, solar energy door to door. Mhmm. I mean, the go do hard things.
Steve: Yes. Yeah. Get paid well for it. Go knock
Greg: Yeah.
Steve: In the summer. Because those guys will have a 100 or 70, 80 k month summer.
Greg: Summers. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. It's incredible. Like, how much these kids make over the summer.
Greg: Yeah. It is.
Steve: Okay. So, you start off doing your own thing. And, very quickly, though, you just went into the, self directed IRA world.
Greg: Well, someone funded my first deal with an IRA. Yeah. And so I learned about that. He's he lent me 60. He partnered with me with $60,000 with his IRA.
He took his IRA. He gave me a percentage of it through a trust company. Mhmm. And and we did our first deal. Now he had a lot more money.
He did another four or five deals with me. Once I got four or five deals under my belt, then I started talking about this subject. I started talking about IRAs. That's all I talked about because I was in the I could find deals, but I couldn't find money. Mhmm.
So so for me, I was just I I just felt like I had found something that's so unique, and people just weren't talking about. And, frankly, fast forward today, it's the same thing. Mhmm. Like, people still aren't talking about it. And there's a reason for it.
We can talk about that. Mhmm. But I just started talking to people about IRAs. I was a real estate investor, but I was really a self directed IRA specialist. And and and then what happened from the age of of 24 to about 34, about eight to ten years, I started over 10.
I think I had 11 funds, reg d and reg a. I worked with the hard money lending company. I raised over $700,000,000. It was like if if you include my in the partnership, it's over a billion, but $700,000,000, and 75% of that was from people with IRAs.
Steve: Mhmm.
Greg: And I just figured out how to find dollars that were dormant, that were unhappy, and and just, you know, they they they wanted something different to go to. And so I became a self directed IRA. I wouldn't say well, I became an expert, but I didn't even own the company. I I owned a real estate business, and I was just trying to find investors. And I happened to look for people with IRAs to to invest with us.
And so after I referred, not referred, but found thousands of individuals and referred them out to other trust companies, their service was so rough. The service was so slow. Mhmm. And so when I'd say it, it'd be like, hey, Steve. So here's our fund or here's our deal.
You know, you're gonna make x percentage. We'll get your IRA set up. Use this company. I won't say them, but they're well known. And use that company.
And once your IRA's moneys are there, then you can go into my deal. Well, if that process was not smooth, you thought my investment was not good.
Steve: It was an indicator.
Greg: It was an indicator for my investor even though they but it is an indicator for them because it was new to them. So when they do something new, anything they're related if I gave them bad water, they'd be like, well, he gave you bad water. Well, it's not my water. Well, that's what I had at his office. Same thing when it came to an IRA company.
They thought my investment was slow or not that great because of the service they got.
Steve: So direct reflection of you and his first impression of your work.
Greg: 100%. 100%. So that's a problem. So that's why I was like, I'm gonna fix this.
Steve: So you were the self directed IRA guy, and you were good at finding people with retirement funds, and then you would send them to trust companies
Greg: Correct.
Steve: To have them convert it to self directed IRAs.
Greg: That's correct. So then they could invest in our funds or in our hard money lending company. Correct.
Steve: Got it. Okay. How did you go about doing that?
Greg: I did lots of different things. I I Yeah.
Steve: But I I I didn't really emphasize this. $700,000,000 is a lot of freaking money.
Greg: It's a lot of money.
Steve: Raise $700,000,000, from investors. That is a significant amount. So we don't have to go how do you raise 700, but how did you get started in in finding these people?
Greg: It it wasn't as hard as I thought, and I didn't look back until later on when I stopped raising money. I didn't even realize how much I raised till later. Like, I stopped I stopped raising funds, and and then I just started looking back, and I started counting it and how many deals I did. So that was never what my intentions were. Mhmm.
I just kept my nose down as I do today even really. So but what I did, there was a couple things that I did. You know? From from the most infant stages, it it goes back to what I said when I was finding real estate deals. It was literally handshakes, elevator pitches, and I would go to real estate rooms.
And this is advice I give people often now too is is there there's segments on when I raised lots of money, which is a different story, and just how I got going in the beginning to raise hundreds of thousands, maybe a couple million bucks. And a couple million dollars was a simple one. I would do it differently now with social media. But the couple million dollars that I did, I found myself in rooms often that were doing real estate deals. Everybody has a deal, and so I learned real quickly that my deal is no better than anyone else's.
Mhmm. Even today, if I were to go to your neighbor and say, hey, neighbor, I've got a real estate deal that Steve's doing. By the way, Steve is the guy in real estate. Can I tell you about this real estate deal? He would say, now I'm I'm generalizing, but most people would say, I already know about real estate.
I've owned three homes my whole life. I'm a I'm an expert. I own my home I live in. And and I I gotta tell you, I'm kinda joking, but I'm serious. Almost everyone thinks they're a real estate investor Mhmm.
Because they bought a home or even they bought a home a year. That doesn't count Yeah. In my opinion. So so what I did is I got in these rooms, and I wanted to share a message that no one else would share. And I said, do you have an IRA?
Do you know that your IRA can be my partner in my next real estate deal? Mhmm. Can I show you how to not pay taxes on your next real estate deal? Well, how do I not pay taxes? Well, do you have an IRA?
Mhmm. Yes or no? Oh, you don't? Does your wife have an old four zero one k from a previous employer? Do you know that she could you guys, the partner in my next deal, I'll do all the work, all your profits go back to your IRA, and you don't pay taxes?
Mhmm. Maybe maybe forever if it's a Roth. That was my pitch time after time. I was just looking I was telling people or asking people if they had IRAs rather than saying, I have a deal. Mhmm.
And because everyone had a deal. So that's all I do is I focus on IRAs. Are they happy? Why are they happy with their IRA they currently have? Why are they not happy?
What's the rates they're getting? And I start asking these questions because I learned in the first six months, I learned to listen to what they're happy about and what rate they were getting Mhmm. In their IRA. Why is that important? Because real estate investors, especially when you're gathering funds, are so quick to say, I'll pay you 12%.
Mhmm. I mean, that's, like, the common thing. You get 12%. It's a hard money loan. Twelve and two, ten and two if you're really good.
They've been getting six. Mhmm. And they just said, if I could just earn 8% a year, I'd be happy. Mhmm. And you offered them 12.
Yeah. Well, four points on a big deal. Even on a small deal, it it matters. Mhmm. And so I just got good at finding out what they liked about the retirement account, what they didn't like.
And then I start talking about why potentially partnering with me Mhmm. Could be a better deal.
Steve: Yeah. That makes total sense. You're highlight oh, a A couple of things you're doing differently is you're highlighting a different message, and then you're shining, a light on a I wasn't necessarily a problem they didn't know they had, but an opportunity
Greg: Opportunity.
Steve: They weren't aware of.
Greg: That's right.
Steve: Right? And then leading with, like, not paying taxes to real estate investors. Like, there's no, like, better message to real estate investors. Hey. You wanna make money and not make not pay taxes?
How to do
Greg: that? Right.
Steve: Yeah. Okay. So you're going to conferences, and this is the message you're presenting.
Greg: But I'm just a I'm just a guest. Right? This is before my stage times. Right? This is just me, just onesie, twosies, a couple people here.
All of a sudden, I and I did my first reg d. Mhmm. I think on my own, I raised, like that same year, I raised a million dollars, and I was like, this is this is great. I have a million dollars. And, you know, that that but that comes with responsibility too.
It's almost a little bit of a different business, but I did that. And then the next fund I did was, I think, 10 or $12,000,000, and, and that was still onesie, Tuesdays. And, you know, until until we started doing then then I got known, and I started finding the conferences and would speak a little bit at them.
Steve: So Got it. Yeah. Okay. So, you saw a problem that you're referring people to businesses, and they were, like, taking a long time. We're talking, like I guess, let's talk about differences in turnaround times.
What were the turnaround times they were getting or the turnaround times you were hoping to get?
Greg: So this still happens today, by the way.
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Greg: If someone wants to invest with me with their IRA, and and they've gotta open up a self directed IRA to do so, most companies, they go to my website, fill out the forms. It's all populate online, which is awesome. Well, guess what? The application, first of all, to move over an IRA is not simple. There's a lot of questions you don't know the answer to.
Mhmm. So now the all of a sudden, someone's lost. Takes them a couple days just to understand the questions. And so and and then there's this timing of getting the money transferred from wherever it's at to the trust company. Mhmm.
So between understanding the application and and filling it out and then getting the money from where it was over over to a trust to the trust company ready to send to me, those two things on average, our our competitors would take anywhere from thirty to forty five days. Then once the money got to the trust company, the biggest I'll say in the country today, they then I would say, okay. My client's funds are there. Please send them. Here's the documentation.
Well, it would take them two to five days to get it over to us. The clients didn't know if this was bad or good because it was the first experience.
Steve: No context. Yeah.
Greg: I knew because I don't get paid. I can't do a deal till the money gets here, so I'm waiting forty five days. And so I was like, there's just gotta be a better way, and and I created a better way. I created a trust fund.
Steve: Is atrocious. Like, if it's, like, if it's, like, legal reasons, right, if there are banking reasons, regulatory reasons, I get it. But forty five days
Greg: Forty five days is what the average was back then. I would say even today, the whole process from a to z, most custodians are anywhere from eighteen to twenty five days. About three weeks. Excuse me. That being said, that's what I that's what I'm so proud of.
We're seven days at Horizon Trust Company, and we process within twenty four hours. So once we have the documentations, we process in twenty four hours. It's seven days from start to end to open up the account and get the money transferred from wherever it's at to us. Can be actually quicker. Don't like to say that.
It could be a little longer if if the client is not helpful, but we hold their hand. We are the best in service. That's why I started the company. And still today, we are, and we do thousands of transactions. So yeah.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think I remember I opened one up, I don't know, fifteen years ago. Yeah. I don't know. But I remember, like, look like, fill out the form, and I'm a fairly educated individual.
Right? Yeah. I remember looking at the form like, what is this? Yeah. What does it mean?
Now fortunately, I was, close to the secretary. I was able to just, like, hey. Like, what is this?
Greg: Figure this out.
Steve: Like, yeah. Explain what this means to me. But I can imagine the confusion stops so many sales. Yeah. Right?
Lack of understanding. And then on top of that, the part about you getting them excited to invest with you, The amount of momentum lost.
Greg: That's right.
Steve: Thirty days, like, they were hot, ready to go. Greg, I'm excited. I wanna give you money. I want to make some money tax free.
Greg: They talk to their friends. They talk to their adviser. Three weeks passes by. Yeah.
Steve: Yes. Now you gotta get all excited again
Greg: That's right.
Steve: To to actually fund the account and so on. Okay. So you saw this problem, and then you you sought out to solve it. So how long ago did you
Greg: Started Horizon Trust Company fifteen years ago.
Steve: Fifteen years ago?
Greg: Yep. Fifteen years.
Steve: So, talk to me about, like, what is involved in it? Because there's not a lot of, custodian companies out there.
Greg: There's not a lot. I mean, the the the barrier to entry is high. You you've got the they require, depending on the state, anywhere from 3,000,000 to $25,000,000 of cash in the account Mhmm. That you can't ever touch. It's just in the account because you're regulated by the banking division.
Mhmm. Then they require the CapEx. So it took us three years before we made money. So you have to have three years of reserves on top of the $3,000,000. And so you have to start with basically $5,000,000 Mhmm.
That you can't touch. And so that pretty much eliminates. That's why you don't see it as, you know, a lot of trust companies. Yeah.
Steve: There's not a lot.
Greg: So so that that was a hurdle for me, but we did you know, we we created a trust company fifteen years ago.
Steve: Mhmm.
Greg: And, and and we were slow going and not great at marketing, even though I mean, I thought it was good, but, I mean, there's some Goliaths out there that are really good at marketing. But I also want to maintain the importance of our service, and we've done that ever since the beginning. And so yes. We started fifteen years ago, and we we've done it for ever since. We're we're in Albuquerque and and also in Las Vegas.
Steve: Okay. So going back to, you know, raising, again, 700 mil
Greg: Mhmm. On
Steve: your own and then over billing it with partners, What were you buying all this time to raise that much money? Because you start with a condo.
Greg: Mhmm. Yeah.
Steve: What are all the different projects you've been a part of?
Greg: Well, look. I did apartment complexes. I did a lot of land acquisition, you know, and conversion, you know, through the permitting plan. We did we did that. We did a lot of lending.
I'd say half of the funds were lending Mhmm. Like hard money lending. So, we were not involved. The other half were, you know, again, bigger projects. I did 12 hotels, four apartment complexes, lots of land, not a ton of homes.
Probably end up doing, like, five or 600 homes total.
Steve: Not a ton.
Greg: Yeah. Well, you know, but, I mean, yeah, relative. I mean, as far as that many dollars, we didn't do that too many homes. But but, you know, a lot of mistakes along the way. Like, the the homes were good, really good to me.
And then me deciding to go into hotels, big mistake. I mean, when you're off on a on a big asset, you know, you know, a 100 when your when your loan is matured but you haven't sold it yet and the debt carry is a $100,000 a month. Mhmm. I'm 31 years old. That's that's heavy.
Right? And so that happened a few times. It doesn't feel good.
Steve: Few times.
Greg: Uh-huh. Yeah. And so I I it is also what scared me into doing more lending. Mhmm. I like the lending because it's like, look.
I'm gonna we're gonna bring the funds together. We're gonna charge a fee. Mhmm. And we'll lend to the these developers and contractors. But so I I had learned enough to, you know, understand a deal and and what to look for.
But, yeah, I mean so today, I, you know, I still personally invest in different deals, but just on my own. You know, I don't I don't syndicate. I don't I am an IRA guy and self directed guy. And I'd and I'd say, look. Most of my time I spend now and how I've grown the business is I talk to real estate entrepreneurs, and it's it's it's why a lot of times I'm in boardroom is almost every entrepreneur I'm talking to, real estate or not, is looking for capital.
They're looking to scale. Whatever is their scale, in mobile home parks, whatever the case is, the money is sitting right underneath their nose. They just don't know how to ask for it. Mhmm. And and then they ask once, like, oh, do you have an IRA to their social media thing?
And they do it once or twice, and they're done. That's wrong. Like, every so what I what I spend most of my time doing is teaching people, entrepreneurs, how to find money in their own communities and and and and create the terms they're looking for to raise dollars. And and what happens now today, which is fun at Horizon, or at least for me personally, is there's not a day that goes by that I don't get an email or a text from some entrepreneur that it's a group text and is like, hey, Greg. Meet Amber.
Just talk to her. She wants to invest my deal. Can you take it from here? I teach people so they they don't have to be expert at my space. I had to be an expert at this self directing because the experts sucked at it.
Mhmm. That's a that's a problem. And so now I go out and say, hey. Look. You keep doing your real estate.
You you you are the best at it. I'm gonna be your self directed custodian that takes care of you and your clients. We're gonna hold their hand to the process. So if you send me a lead, they're we're gonna have their money set up within seven days or ten days, and you're gonna have a potential, you know, lender or whatever. So that that's those I mean, you didn't totally ask that, but that's what that's that is where we are and what I'm good at.
I just used what I did for ten years to do it now.
Steve: So a lot of the people that that listen to the show are real estate investors. So let's let's walk this.
Greg: Sure.
Steve: Walk them through this. Right? So, listen to this podcast. I'm excited. Hey.
I'm ready to start raising money, through self directed raise or through retirement plans that will convert to self directed raise. So give me the basics. Right? Like, what do I need to do so that I can have, let's just say, quarter million, right, that I can start flipping with?
Greg: Mhmm.
Steve: What's step one?
Greg: Step one, is first understanding what we're talking about today. So let's just say you understand the concept of a self directed IRA. Okay? If not, take ten minutes. Look at chat g p t.
You'll learn it real quick. Right? Once you understand it, the next question is, the next thing I would do is finding out asking people questions and finding out who has IRAs or old four zero one case. Now now why is that important? I don't like to give advice or solutions to people who are not looking for them.
Mhmm. They're not looking for advice and don't need help. They're not gonna hear your message. Right. So the next thing you do is once you understand what a self directed IRA is, is you should start integrating you and your team.
Or if you don't have a team, just you. Start asking people, do you have an IRA, or do you have an old four zero one k with a previous employer? Mhmm. Previous employer is important because if it's a current four zero one k, it doesn't qualify for what we're talking about today. But mind you, there's over a 100,000,000 IRAs in The United States that have over $20,000,000,000,000.
So So a 100,000,000. Over 100,000,000.
Steve: Accounts.
Greg: Accounts. Dollars.
Steve: Accounts.
Greg: In The United States, they have over $20,000,000,000,000. So for anyone that's saying, I can't find money, you haven't effing looked everywhere. It's all around you. In fact, if you take that number I did this number recently with ChatGPT because it helps so much. Right?
You can put how many adults right? How many are pea age at the age of 18 and above in The United States? And I forgot what it was. It was, like, 200 and something million, I believe. Don't hold me to that, but I think it was 200 something.
Then I was like, okay. There's a 100,000,000 IRAs. So that means it's really, like, 40%, 45% of adults have an IRA or an old four zero one k, which means pretty much to the left or the right of you I mean, maybe not my 18 year olds or 20 year olds. Right? But if you're, like, 25 or older, most likely, there's somebody who has an IRA.
So what does that mean? You should be I'm I'm giving you a long answer to your question here. You should be talking about and asking people, do they have a retirement account? Do or did they know that they can use it to invest in real estate? Mhmm.
And if the answer is yes, they have an IRA or an old four zero one k, and, no, they didn't know they can invest in real estate, the next question is, would that be of interest? If If I could show you something, you could partner with me on my next deal. I'll do all the work. You could partner with me with your IRA, and we'll flip the next deal, or you can lend to me on the next deal. Would you be interested?
That's the conversation. You have 10 of those. You're gonna get one or two for every 10. Mhmm. And the other thing is someone doesn't have to do it with all their money.
I can share it with you, Steve. You're like, cool. Greg just told me about this thing. By the way, it sounds new. It's been around for forty years.
Mhmm. But I just I'm not sure about it, and and that's okay. My next thing if, you know, once I hear there's some discomfort, it's like, you don't have to do it with all your money. If you've got a a million dollar or $200,000 IRA, test it, $50,000. Let me see if I can give you a 10 or 12% return and beat the stock market Alright.
Consistently. And so the first steps are understanding what it is, peaking people's interest, asking questions, and letting asking them if they would be interested in potentially partnering with you and not pay taxes on the gains. Right? And then and then the last thing that I still have today, but I do it for business growth, is I have my own you know? Oh, I have whiteboards.
And for my business today, it's different, but it's the same. Every conversation I had like this, I have a whiteboard, and I would write it down. Name, how much they had, if they're happy, what rate they're looking for.
Steve: Mhmm.
Greg: And some are gonna be like, oh, I wanna make 20%. Okay. Well, I'm writing it down because there might be a deal that I can actually give them a 20% rate of return. Mhmm. But but those are the first steps.
Understanding it, asking questions, and then then if they're interested. You have 10 of those conversations, you're gonna find 200, $300,000. Yeah. And and and you might have to do 20, whatever the case is. If you're if you start introducing this on social media, now you can't pitch deals.
Right? You can't be, like, earn 12% with your IRA. Right? Now we're talking about SCC and different communication problems. I'm not saying that.
I'm saying find people that you already know in your warm communities or go to these RIAs or go somewhere else. Like, hey. Do you have IRAs? Be an IRA expert, and you'll raise millions of dollars.
Steve: Yeah. So I wanna talk about the social media component. Mhmm. Let's start there. So let's talk about the social media component.
What are some do's and don'ts? Because you can get in a lot of trouble if you do this wrong.
Greg: Yeah. Look. When when you're raising money and soliciting and and by the way, right, we've got your disclaimers. Right? I'm not an attorney or a CPA or, you know, I'm not I'm not giving, legal advice either.
I can just share from my experience. Right? So so when and and look. I've and I've had it I've worked through all I've worked through hard stuff with with licensing and SCC stuff. So I've I've lived some of those battles, so I know it pretty dang well, but still consult your attorney.
That being said, you can ask. You can talk about your real estate business. You can talk about your specific deals on social media. As soon as you start asking for money and soliciting money, that's when you potentially would need a fund or something that's more regulated. You probably know this even in, you know, just as well as I do.
What I like to share is you can ask about IRAs. You can ask about money. Hey. If you're interested, you know, and you wanna be on my list to learn more about my next deal, whatever the case is, gather information. Have conversations.
Get them on email list. And that's better that's good for you anyways. You wanna build these relationships so when the time does come, you've got a prior relationship. You can call them because you've already called and talked to them before. And now you can invite them to either be on a one deal with just you and him or her, or, talk to them about a a reg d offering.
Mhmm. Especially if they're accredited, that makes it easier. Right? And so so the those are, like, the the elementary steps. There's more details, but I I for me, when it comes to soliciting money, I'm very careful.
I only talk about concepts or I talk about IRAs. And if you're interested, contact me, and then you just you start building a relationship over time. That's what I recommend. But but, like, a lot of times I mean, I've been at lots of events where it's like, alright. Pull out your phone.
And this is obviously this is legal. Pull out your phone. Put on there, who here has an old IRA or four one k and would like to invest with me on the next deal? Period. You didn't give the deal.
You didn't give the terms. You didn't say if it's a loan or if it's a partnership or the case is, but just see what kind of responses you get. Mhmm. And and so that becomes your new list of, you know, relationships that are probably already part of your community.
Steve: You think that's okay to do? Yeah. Okay. You know, it's funny. I, I was raising some money, a few weeks a few months back, for my company.
Greg: Mhmm. Right? And I
Steve: put in there, like, hey. You know, who wants to make a guaranteed 12%?
Greg: Mhmm.
Steve: And I got a lot of people, like, you can't say this.
Greg: Can't say guaranteed.
Steve: Right? Can't say this. That's, like, but if it's a promissory note, still can't say guaranteed?
Greg: Can't say don't ever say guaranteed unless it's life insurance.
Steve: Alright. There you go. Yeah. I got blasted a lot.
Greg: I was
Steve: like, well, if I'm, you know, if I'm personally guaranteeing it. But alright. I'll
Greg: I I don't even like doing rates because the rates also could be different. People are looking for different things, like I said before. So I just like to I focus on low hanging fruit. The reason I I focus on IRAs. I did, and, well, now I do with the trust company because there's just something different about it.
Someone that has an IRA or retirement account, they can't touch it.
Steve: Mhmm.
Greg: And and if I were to say, hey, Steve. I've got a deal. It's gonna be a two to three year deal. I'm gonna pay 12% on it. Wire from your checking account to me a $100,000.
Or, Steve, here's that deal. How about your IRA? Send me a $100,000. You would choose IRA all day long, and so would almost any other American because it doesn't feel like you're taking the money. Right.
You can't touch it anyways. Right. And so now the other nice thing about that is if a deal goes longer or there's some few problems in there, it's your IRA. Mhmm. It can take a little longer.
You can't touch it anyways. But if you give me a $100,000 and I say it's a promissory note, I'm gonna pay you back in two years, and it's two years and I don't, you'll be like, dude, it's due. Mhmm. In an IRA, you can negotiate those terms a little bit better. Alright.
Makes total sense. Mindset.
Steve: Going back to so we're talking about that social media do's and don'ts. So then let's talk about personally. Right? Because you you've coached a lot of people through this. So is it as simple as, like, hey.
Just pull out your phone and just call the 10 people you talked to the most? Like, what do you what is your recommendation there?
Greg: No. Not necessarily. Oddly enough, from my experience, maybe not oddly enough, my 10 closest people are the most difficult. I mean, it took my dad six years before he invested $5,000 with me. Yeah.
But, you know, 5,000 was probably, like, you know, 500,000 to someone else. But still, some of the closest ones are the most difficult. So I I feel like some of the best places or people to talk to, are are these different events and meetups and, you know, Ria's or masterminds. People that are more like minded, not necessarily your 10 closest friends. Because I also don't really enjoy taking my I don't take any family money.
I did that, and that didn't go well. Right? It's gotta be perfect if it's family money. Right? You can't miss a beat.
And so, so, yeah, I I don't know if it's that. For me, it's it's being in the right groups Mhmm. And also just listening to how others are raising funds. For me, I I find myself in events. That's where I find it, and I find relationships that way.
And so, for everyone, it's a little bit different. Like, so my son my son's doing this now. Not doesn't work for me. He has his own business. He's 20 he just turned 23.
And I haven't given him any money. And and he has found lenders, but also just different relationships through couple little events he's gone to, not related to me. Mhmm. And and and also some friends who have, like, 5 or $10,000. I think he also you know?
So it so the answer he'd give you might be what you just said. I know that one of my his mom's, friends gave him 25,000. So he probably did what you said. I just found more success being in rooms that were, not necessarily real estate entrepreneurs, but real estate investors. So
Steve: So, we met through Boardroom.
Greg: Yeah.
Steve: Is that an example, or is that those guys are so focused already that that they're too far along in their journey?
Greg: Believe it or not, that's an example. And the only reason why I would say that is because I've been in boardroom long enough that I, you know, I've done deals with people with people in boardroom. I've also, I hear locks. I've been around a lot. And so there is a lot of investing happening between each other.
Mhmm. There's money that's going back and forth on different deals, different businesses, and I see it. Right? So, I mean, I can't tell who, but but my eye because we have almost 8,000 clients, I I see thousands of different types of investments. So I get to see what people are investing in, which is exciting.
But but, yes, that mastermind is a good example. It's a harder one to break into if you're new into real estate. Right? But but there's those kind of rooms in groups. I mean, I spoke at, you know, I mean, there's so many little different events.
Ryan Pineda and, Grant Cardone. Like, there's so many different investment all different ages from 18 to 75 years old. They're at these events that either have money or have deals. Yeah. You wanna find yourself in a room where there's both.
Alright. And and sometimes, which you would think in boardroom, it's mostly all deals. Mhmm. But there's also there's also quite a bit of money that that invests.
Steve: There's a lot of money in there.
Greg: A lot of money in there.
Steve: One of the things I heard I learned from a a mentor long ago was RIAs are the best places to go, and it's kind of like a dark reason.
Greg: Oh, yeah.
Steve: But, basically, when you go to these RIAs, a lot of times, it's these, people that work their w two careers, and they realize they don't they no longer have enough to retire on.
Greg: And
Steve: so they're like, I have to figure out real estate investing. Mhmm. But it's kinda late for them to become real estate investors. Yeah. But they have a lot of
Greg: money Saving money. Environment
Steve: That's right. From working
Greg: a
Steve: corporate job. That's right. So, like, this is, like, the best place to go talk to because, like, they can't necessarily become big operators today. They can, but that's probably not the most likelihood.
Greg: That's
Steve: right. But they have retirement funds that you can help grow.
Greg: That's right.
Steve: Right? So I think that's that's a big, big point there.
Greg: You can. I mean and that's there it is when I said there's a there's over a 100,000,000 people. They're all around you, and you'd be surprised. And so so I I just would open my mouth about it everywhere I go. Yeah.
And so you will find people if you're looking to raise money. You don't have to go to Ria's or masterminds, but you do have to be building relationships wherever it might be.
Steve: Yeah. And then, I wanna talk about understanding self directed areas. But before we do that, guys, you know, if you guys are taking any lessons away from this, if you're learning something from this, please comment below. And if there's anything you'd like to see more of or less of, comment below, as well because I'm I'm reviewing every single comment. So please, you know, let us know, what you like and you don't like.
Let's talk about understanding self direct areas because, yeah, that's step one.
Greg: Yeah.
Steve: Pretty important. So, let's remove the, not the cobbles, but, like, the there's a little bit of haziness around it. Like, there's rules and, like, how it works and so on. So if I wanted to understand self directed IRAs, explain it to me, like, I'm a third grader.
Greg: Sure. So, first of all, a self directed IRA is not a type of IRA. Having a self directed IRA, all that really says is allows you to unlock your money Mhmm. From the traditional marketplace and invest it in an alternative asset place Mhmm. That is nonregulated.
So if you have a traditional, a simple, or SEP, or a Roth IRA or an old four zero one k, you can roll that over to a custodian or trust company like ours, and then it will still be a simple SEP or Roth. That does not change. It is now a self directed simple. This is one of the common mistakes people like, oh, now I have a self directed IRA. I'm like, well, it's still a Roth or a traditional or a SEP.
And all the same rules apply like they did at Fidelity as they do with us at Horizon Trust Company as far as contributions and distributions. The biggest differentiator is what you can invest in. Mhmm. At Fidelity, you can't call them up or Charles Schwab or TD Amerit and say, hey. I want to lend my money to my buddy, Steve.
It's not on their list. It's not an option. But with us, you actually can do that. Now you still need proper documentation. We we we make sure it's compliant, the right documentation, but we don't underwrite.
We are not fiduciaries. We don't endorse the investment. So that's the biggest difference. Fidelity is the so self directing is simply investing in a space and unlocking your money to invest in what you want.
Steve: So I know back when I was at Intel, I think I was with Fidelity. Mhmm. And, basically, it's kinda like, Henry Ford. Right? It's like you can buy any color car you want so long as it's a black car.
Greg: That's right. Yeah. So long as it's a black car. Right.
Steve: And that's kinda how I felt like I was in shackles. Right? Like, I can pick from these mutual funds, or I can pick, like, these blends that Fidelity has decided
Greg: That's right.
Steve: Is is is the, best options for me.
Greg: That's right.
Steve: But they're either Fidelity or, like, these options of Fidelity. Yeah. But that's it.
Greg: That's right.
Steve: Right?
Greg: That hasn't changed, by the way.
Steve: I can't imagine that it has. Yeah. And, you know, if you look at the way stock the the, stock market or the the the exchange works is they get paid based off of percent under management. Yeah. So it does not behoove them to not invest in a Fidelity Fund.
Greg: That's right.
Steve: So, that's the reason why it's so difficult. So what you're saying is the biggest difference really is just, like, the almost like the address of where the money is at. Like
Greg: That's it. Because we're not investing it for you. Mhmm. So the money then comes over to us, and it stays in it stays in trust and and and kinda you can see it online, but it does nothing until you direct us and say, hey. Send it to this deal.
And so that's that's how it works. It's a really simple process. People and it's been around since the seventies. People just don't know about it mostly because of what you said. Advisors don't get paid if they lose assets under management.
But I will tell you the other thing, and and and I and I don't hit on advisers because they are are needed for majority of America. Only 5% of Americans do what we're talking about, and only probably 15 should be doing it. 85% of Americans should not touch this. Mhmm. So I'm not here to say, oh my gosh.
This is the best thing, and everyone should do it. The reason why they shouldn't do it is if you're not going to do any due diligence, you're not gonna make sure the documentation's correct, You don't know who you're investing with. Stay in the market. Keep using your advisor. Keep picking up the funds.
But if you if you are more active
Steve: because they have guardrails.
Greg: Yes. Exactly. They have guardrails. There's there's regulation to protect you. And I think that's important, especially for, you know, in America today that you still do need that.
I just happen to be in circles, in masterminds, in groups where I'm around, educated entrepreneurs that believe in themselves and then believe in their industry. And so the government has approved this, something that allows us to invest in asset classes and in people Mhmm. That you normally couldn't do. And it's powerful. I mean, this is not an like, not only is it not new, but some of the most, you know, some of the most powerful people are using this, and I think that the middle class does not get to hear the story and should.
Steve: Yeah. I mean, I think the most notorious example
Greg: of Peter Thiel.
Steve: Peter Thiel. Wanna talk a little bit about not everyone knows that story.
Greg: Yeah. Yeah. Peter Peter Thiel Peter Thiel, he so he was a, starter of PayPal. And so One of the
Steve: founders of the PayPal media, mafia.
Greg: Right. Before before PayPal was a good idea. Right? So, you know, he put in his money. We all know it was a good idea now, but, his Roth his Roth IRA was, contributed to had equity in the company and was part of the start up money.
And so, he wasn't personally. It was his Roth, which this this story goes I've I've seen many variations of this as far as on a smaller scale. But he then sold his interest. Right? And so when when he sold out of PayPal, that first sale, I don't know exactly if you can Google it, but I think it was, like, a 150 or 200, million dollars.
Right? So his $10,000 turned into, call it, 200,000,000. Something stupid. Right? So, he then reinvested into his next next business, and I forgot what that is.
But it is now worth, like I don't know if it's 600,000,000 or if the rumor is a billion. But, anyways, he will never pay 1¢ on that account, and he did it with inside of basically a Roth self directed account. So there is a new rule now, thanks to him. Congress has come out with something different. I have not seen this tested yet, so someone could test this in court.
But, the rule is you can no longer make more than 10,000,000 a year in your Roth. I haven't seen that tested or contested yet. I'm sure someone's going to.
Steve: Oh, for sure.
Greg: And, also, after if you make more than 2,000,000 in a in your Roth, there could be an audit that happens with IRS. Again, I haven't seen that yet either. I hope to be someone that does that, but, that's that's Peter Thiel, and you can do it. I mean but on that note, we're talking about real estate. My first fund that we talked about in the beginning, I I I put in there $60,000 salary in in the pro form a, in the reg d that I was gonna pay myself $5,000 salary.
So I raised money, and and I got an IRA investor to help fund my business that paid my personal salary Mhmm. For a year. And that was a game changer because then I could focus on the business and not worry about flipping the next deal Mhmm. To pay my bills at home. So you can start businesses.
You can fund them with, you know, other people's IRAs if, obviously, you know, they agree and you've got the right terms. But you can you can do all kinds of fun things with an IRA.
Steve: Well, so, like, going back to what I was saying earlier, like, how I raised some capital from my company because we're looking to scale. And you were saying, like, when you scale, cash is kinda tight. Yep. Investors came in with Roth IRAs, self directed Roth IRAs.
Greg: That's perfect. All distributions go back to the Roth. They don't pay taxes on the on the upside. Right. It's it is it is it's so available.
And if you don't have a Roth, that's the other thing is but if if you show me a new idea and you're like, hey. Look. I'm just looking for, you know, whatever, a $100,000. I can start a Roth today, contribute for 2024, or I'm sorry, '25, and then again in '26. But let's just say I just start from scratch and I have 5 or $6,000.
My Roth can start fund your business and get 2%. Mhmm. And and and I I won't pay anything. I I think I I think my Roth invested with Ternus on the side note. So I'll turn this up on your board.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Investing in Ternus as well. Okay. So so, you know, moving back, getting back on track, anything else we need to know? So, like, basically, it's just a different custodian.
Greg: Mhmm.
Steve: Right?
Greg: It's basically a different custodian.
Steve: But, be more was it more caveat emptor. Right? More buyer beware. Like Yep. Make sure you know what you're investing.
Greg: Gotta do your own due diligence underwriting. Right.
Steve: Because it's legitimately a self directed IRA.
Greg: You choose on behalf of your IRA. Yeah. That's right.
Steve: Anything else they need to know?
Greg: I think, you know, the the the deal itself is its own you know, all the steps that you would give on as far as underwriting a deal. So so as far as steps for self directing, first identifying if you have the right type of account. And if you have an old four zero one k, you qualify, or an old plan with the government if you were a teacher or whatever. Those plans all qualify if you used to be with them. Identifying the account, getting it transferred over, getting it set up, and then then you're good to go.
And and so there's not much there's not too much after that.
Steve: One thing, I hear, talked about is checkbook.
Greg: Checkbook LLCs. Yeah. Checkbook. Yeah.
Steve: That a little bit?
Greg: Yeah. So the Checkbook LLC is probably 30% of our new business is Checkbook LLCs. It is the most it gives you the most flexibility and control of your retirement funds. Mhmm. So that just and we do these for, like I said, every day.
We do it's just adding one more step. So when I said you you move your money over from Fidelity to Horizon Trust Company, we then help you create a Chuckbook LLC. Your IRA owns that LLC, and so your money is leave us and go to this LLC that you are the manager of. So if you're the manager of that, you then can write checks, do wires, you know, do everyday business. Now the rules where it gets I wouldn't say gray, just where people get can mess things up.
Is a Checkbook LLC somebody if they start paying themselves a commission, salary, they start commingling their non IRA money with their IRA money, all no nos. These are things you can do. But it's perfect for that guy or girl who's got an IRA, who wants control, who's maybe buying assets that have bills and taxes and vendors and contractors, Checkbook LLC is awesome. Gives you complete control of your IRA.
Steve: So I wanna get your perspective because this is your world. The camera, what the guy's name is. I think it was, like, Tax Free Wealth. Can't remember the name of the author. It's, like, Tom Wheelwright or something along along those lines.
But basically
Greg: Tom Anderson? Mhmm. No. Oh, it
Steve: wasn't that. But his point was this. You should never buy real estate in a self directed IRA, and you should only not only, but one of the best things to do with self directed IRA is to become a hard money lender. So I wanna get your perspective on that opinion.
Greg: I know why someone would say that. If if you have the option of buying real estate if you have money to buy real estate outside of your IRA and money inside of your IRA, Lending is better inside of your IRA because there's no tax benefits. Mhmm. Buying real estate outside of your IRA, there are tax benefits. You don't get any tax benefits when you buy real estate with your IRA.
Right. So that's why he would say that. The only I wouldn't say a problem with it. The only thing the reason why I would potentially say that that you would, and and and I do, by the way. I definitely buy real estate with my IRA even though I'm not getting the tax benefits today, is when you do buy with your IRA, most people only have large sums of cash available inside of an IRA, meaning I don't have enough money to go buy a piece of real estate, personally.
Well, I have it in my IRA. I don't think I'm explaining this very well, so let me let me just say this better. If you're making a six to 8% rate of return in the stock market, and now you decide to self direct and you start buying and holding real estate in your IRA, and you're making 10 to 12%, is that better?
Steve: I would say so.
Greg: Yes. So are you losing some tax benefits of doing it? Yes. But your IRA is making more money. So so my advice is do better than whatever you're currently doing in your IRA.
If that's buying and holding real estate and you're still doing better, god bless you. You're still avoiding taxes. But if you are one of those lucky entrepreneurs and or business people that have money both inside and out and you can choose, then yes. Like, I like to buy storage unit facilities outside my IRA. I like the cost.
I like the tax benefits. I like to lend mostly or if it's a quick flip, if it's a quick flip in real estate, I like to do inside my IRA. There's no tax advantages anyways. Mhmm. So if you have the opportunity to choose, choose what's best for you in the tax for tax reasons.
Steve: Got it. Makes total sense. Anything we haven't talked about in regards to self directed IRAs, horizon, and so on that we should definitely make sure we highlight? Because I think this again, this is a topic that I've been wanting to talk about on the show, and for whatever reason, it's hard to get anyone to talk about this on the show.
Greg: Well, is that's what I wanna say, actually. Twenty four years ago, I never thought I would be so excited and be talking about IRAs. Mhmm. Like, I'll never forget the time I'm about to get on stage. It's a break.
There's, like, 400 people. I must have been 32 years old. And I hear these group of people saying, hey. I'm gonna are you gonna go watch the next speaker, or let's go get a drink at the bar at the hotel? Mhmm.
So I'm just listening to this. I'm like, you know, I'm still kinda young. I'm I I don't like hearing that kind of stuff, and my confidence is going down. They're gonna they say they're gonna go to the bar. They're going to the bar.
I'm I'm it's a long story about what you're saying. I think this is important. What I didn't share, and I wanna share a little bit stronger here, The message that I shared that day would have probably changed the lives of those 23 year olds.
Steve: Oh, you're saying when you were the speaker?
Greg: I was the speaker. They they left.
Steve: Wanna listen to you.
Greg: They didn't wanna listen to me. They left. I spoke. The biggest misconception and the reason why this message is so important and then why I thought I would never be an IRA expert because it's it can be the most boring thing if you make it boring, is it will change your life. Mhmm.
And and I can't tell you how I mean, I live a life 10 times better than I dreamed of when I was 23 years old, and I truly can say, not self servingly, that it has to do with being able to scale my business and finding IRA funds. And and I can I can tell you this right now? I see it in my own son. I see it with my friends and business partners and masterminders. If you wanna raise $1.02, or $10,000,000, which probably will move the needle in your business Mhmm.
Focus on this simple thing. And and it it will change your business. It will change your life. And so that it wasn't really something to add. I just wanted to share that this message of IRAs can be the sexiest thing if you understand it.
Steve: So let me ask you a question. It's gonna be completely selfish Sure. On my part now. Sure. Right?
Because we're, we're looking to get to the next stage of growing our business. Right? Mhmm. Raise some additional capital. Can you talk at all, and if you can't, that's fine Mhmm.
About doing a debt fund with a Roth IRA to scale a business. Could you cancel on that, or is that something, like, completely off topic?
Greg: Debt count a debt fund, which I understand. But what do you mean with the Roth IRA? Is someone investing with the Roth IRA?
Steve: Mhmm.
Greg: Well, I don't see why it would be maybe I don't totally understand the question because I I the debt fund
Steve: completely ignorant on this topic. That's why I'm asking.
Greg: Okay. So will will a fund a debt fund, which I've done several of, are are there's no tax advantages Mhmm. Anyway. So it's perfect for someone with an IRA. Mhmm.
So so if you have a debt fund, your community, your individuals, your clients that, have a Roth or should convert to a Roth or traditional to a Roth could invest, which I would do. I would convert to a Roth, invest in a debt fund because all of those proceeds then go back into their Roth tax free now and forever when they pull it out at the right age. And so I that's the only commonality of what I hear you're saying is the debt fund with the Roth. That's Got it.
Steve: I don't
Greg: know if that answers your question or not.
Steve: So if I wanna go down that direction, you have someone that I would talk to about going down that direction?
Greg: Well, I I have a I have an SEC attorney that has done all of my funds that I've referred out to many, actually, board members, that can help you create the fund for very low money. But then, you know, then getting access to those with retirement accounts goes back to grassroots community stuff.
Steve: Right. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, you know, for you guys that are interested in what we're talking about here, if you want to learn more about it, communicate with, Greg and his company, you guys set up a website horizontrust.com/disruptors.
Greg: We did.
Steve: Yeah. What will they find there?
Greg: For your listeners, always you know, we we wanna know where they're coming from, first of all. So that's one thing. But, they'll get kind of my little ebook that I do on this. They'll get, my little webinar series as well to educate them more on the ins and outs of what people are doing. And then they'll they'll schedule a one hour freeze, session on how it works for them, what kind of IRA.
Because this subject can be different for everyone. Like, you might have an old four zero one k, and you might have an IRA. And how is that should should I convert it to a Roth? This just this requires one on one conversation. So between fifteen minutes and and sixty minutes so a free session, we don't, you know, charge anything for that coaching session, basically.
And we'll just teach you how this applies to you. And you can take that, and if it makes sense for you, great. And if it doesn't, that's fine too. But that's that's what they'll do if they go there. If they if they DM me, they can go to horizontrust.com/disruptors, and just just register there, and we'll help them.
Steve: Cool. And then for sure, we're gonna put your, your handle on, on the description, of the of the video. So, I saw in the notes here, you guys control 1,300,000,000.0 in assets?
Greg: Yeah. So we, control, I I I liked is is probably a loose word. We we are custodians, so we hold
Steve: Okay.
Greg: Those assets. And so we that's you know, our combined 7,800 or 7,900 clients, which, by the way, we're small. And I'm not when I say that 900
Speaker: Yeah. Small.
Greg: Yeah. I mean, we're we're small compared to our competitors, but I I'm proud of it. You can you can reach me. You can reach my team. We respond within twenty four hours.
There's no one else like that. Some people try to, like they think they'll save which they won't, by the way. We just we just we got a new price now. But they tried to save a $100, but they're losing a week or two weeks of time. And a week or two is, like, a half a point.
Mhmm. So it's we're talking about hundreds of dollars, and so, like, people just don't get it. So, yeah, we we're small, but, yeah, a little we got about a little over a billion, I think maybe it's billion 3 in in assets. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Got it. So, why are you so passionate? I think you might have alluded to it on a moment ago. Right?
But, like, to be known as, like, the IRA guy, like, what is is there anything else that makes you so passionate about this?
Greg: I I think it's it really drives back to the two things I said in the beginning. One is my story. I mean, I live a life of experiences. I I if I died tomorrow, I'd be totally complete. I am with those that I love.
I don't miss anything that I I don't want to. And and I I credit this not to Horizon Trust. I credit this to understanding a self directed IRA. So that that is probably I mean, that's that's that's what moves me. That's what excites me.
And now I get to see it in others. And and crazy enough, I get to see it in my boy who he's flipping with his Roth IRA commercial his commercial, equipment. I didn't teach him that. Mhmm. $15,000 piece of equipment, he's flipping with somebody, and he's making, like, 15% in, like, four months.
Yeah. Didn't teach him that. But to see, like, not only my offspring take what they want and do their thing, but to see friends do the same thing, with their iris, it's it's it's really fun. And and to see someone who and I, you know, I I had this with, Dan Brisa. He was on a webinar with me, and we were talking about his deal.
And I think he raised $4.05, $600,000 from people's IRAs to do his next last deal just because we we spoke at the last mastermind. Yeah. I mean, an extra $500,000, that that that that changes the knee you know, changes the you getting a deal or not getting a deal. Mhmm. And some of these deals, you know, a million dollar deal could be whatever, half $1,000,000 profit.
You know? So it's it's life changing if you let it. But it is it can be such a boring subject if if if you make it a boring subject. Yeah.
Steve: Well, I think right now is probably more important right at this moment in time in our industry than ever before because of all the regulations that are coming down. You know, like, there are a lot of people right now that I know that are very successful, and their next move, if required, is they're just gonna take everything down. Right? If you can't wholesale it, then they're just gonna flip it.
Greg: Mhmm.
Steve: Right? And, you can get access to hard money. That's not hard.
Greg: Yeah.
Steve: No pun intended. But if you get good at this, your term is gonna be a lot more favorable.
Greg: 100%. It'll be
Steve: a lot it's it's gonna be a lot easier, to to flip deals. Like, when I first started, I didn't use hard money or or or or or any of that. I was using friends and family.
Greg: Yeah.
Steve: And using friends and family, do an agreement where even it's just a a a profit split, man, there is no pressure, when you're working with a a profit split, versus Done. 1% every month That's right. No matter what. Now extension fees. Extension fees.
Oh my god. Extension fees. Absolutely. I'm gonna have we're gonna have to learn about that one day. Like, why the heck that even exists?
That is one of those that's like the I read an article, about how, like, Vegas is dying. You know? And, like, and, you know, for me, it's really simple why Vegas is dying. It's because when when I was a poor college kid, I could still live like a king in Vegas. Right?
Like, $6 prime rib. Now. $6 prime rib.
Greg: Yep.
Steve: Right? You can just hang out by the craps table and get as much as you want to drink.
Greg: That's right.
Steve: Right? Now, like, it doesn't even make sense to go as a family anymore. Like, I look at it. It's like, I gotta pay for parking and resort fees.
Greg: So I
Steve: was like, there's no point in going to Vegas anymore. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Greg: And that's
Steve: how I feel about those extension fees. Fees.
Greg: Yeah. I get it. I've paid too many of them. I understand.
Steve: Yeah. We're gonna talk to Tim to see make sure he doesn't charge those. Okay. So then, looking back looking at your life now, so you mentioned you get to spend time with the people you want to be with. And, for me, I did you see my presentation on stage at the last boardroom?
Greg: No. I didn't. I can't I I I don't know if I was there late or I didn't see it.
Steve: So one of the things I said was my definition of freedom. Like, everyone has different definitions of freedom. My definition of freedom is I never have to talk to anybody I don't wanna talk to ever.
Greg: Yeah. Right?
Steve: It's not the time freedom. It's not the financial freedom. Yeah. Do I have to talk to anybody I don't wanna talk to? It's because if I still have to talk to somebody I don't wanna talk to?
Greg: That's a good definition. I can appreciate that.
Steve: That's truly, truly free. And then, so for you, you know, like, it seemed like you know, I'm looking here. You got five kids. Mhmm. Newer grandfather.
Yeah. Yeah. Right? So let's talk about, like, the freedom that's, real estate's been able to afford, for you.
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Steve: So I've
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Greg: Yeah. Look. I I I would say the thing I learned, especially after living through 02/2008. Right? And I that's a whole different story, a hard time in real estate.
But I I've just learned you talk about freedoms. Success to me is being able to sleep good at night. Mhmm. And it took me a long time to figure that out. You know, a lot of sleepless nights.
And then once I started having some good nights, I was like, man, I don't have to work with somebody I don't want to. Mhmm. Don't have to do a deal that I don't want to. I get to go do, you know, the things I get to do right now and and have for a a little while now. So so for me, that's freedom and that success is is sleeping good at night.
And and I I'll tell you the other thing, is opposite of what I thought for the first fifteen years of my career, and that's partly due to probably a bit of 2,008 too, is cash not working is freedom to me. Mhmm. I like cash in my account. Mhmm. And I don't want all my money working for me, because then I don't have to do a deal, and it's okay.
Mhmm. That's not how I was for the longest time. And and and by the way, I don't advise that to my 24 year old. I had nothing to lose when I was 28. Sure.
I had two kids, a third on the way, but, like, I had no money barely. Right? I mean, I had assets going, but but once you start having success, I recommend having more money in places that make you sleep good enough.
Steve: Mhmm. So Yeah. I've seen a lot of my friends that once he gets about 45, it's not about hustle season.
Greg: Mhmm.
Steve: Right? It's about, like, being able to sleep well Yeah. Not worry. And, again, not having to do a deal you don't wanna do and not having to talk to somebody you don't wanna talk to.
Greg: Yeah. How,
Steve: what is your epic life goal?
Greg: Epic life goal. That's a good question. What is my epic life goal? We have traveled around the world. All of my kids go on vacation almost every month.
I that's just you you stomp me. Like, if there's something that I haven't crossed off the list, it's not a country. Mhmm. It's not the last continent of Antarctica. Like, we were like, that's that is something, but that's not I I would say it's going to every NFL football stadium with my boys.
That's that would be epic for me because we really like sports, and and, it really brings us together. So
Steve: How many have you gone to?
Greg: We've gone to nine. So we got a long ways to go. The problem is we have season tickets to the Raiders. And so by default, eight weeks out of the year, we are already committed to Las Vegas. Yeah.
So then the other weeks, it's like, god, do we wanna travel again? So
Steve: so yeah. That makes total sense. Good thing is you have plenty of time. How do you want to be remembered?
Greg: A giver and a lover. I love hard. I love my friends. I love the people I work with. I want to be known as someone that is just a good person that gives and loves.
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: And what do you would you say is your superpower?
Greg: My superpower is patience and relationship. I'm patient. I'm patient through really hard things. I've been through some really hard things, and we all have. Mhmm.
But, I'm patient through hard things, and I'm and I'm people trust me. Can you
Steve: give me an example of being patient through hard hard things?
Greg: I can give you lots. When and, you know, the easiest one to share besides some personal things I've had to go through would be in 2008 when, you know, all of my I went from $10,000,000 of net worth, on paper to owing $25,000,000 to banks, over pretty much overnight, right, within a twelve month period. And I my partners filed BK, and I had no money. I had three kids and one on the way. And I negotiated my way of not having to file bankruptcy and negotiate all my bank debt, and and made it through.
And I did it by one way that I've I've shared that I shouldn't do it, but I didn't really tell too much of that story to any of my to my wife at the time and and friends or family. I just took it all on, and I was I was patient, but I worked through it. So that's that's that's an easy one to share.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So 25,000,000 owed to the banks. Yes. And you got all the way through without filing BK.
Yeah. So I think that's a record now on our show. Like, I think 20,000,000 was the previous record.
Greg: I'm not proud of that.
Steve: But it's a it's a significant accomplishment.
Greg: Yeah. Right?
Steve: Because those are the things that that people look at. Like, we just, like, why should I bank with you? Well
Greg: Yeah.
Steve: I I didn't file BK when everyone else did. Because literally, like, I think 99% of the population at the time did.
Greg: On paper, it made sense. Right? It made sense. Yeah. But what's what's interesting now full circle is I now own a trust company where banks are vying for my business Mhmm.
All the time. It's pretty cool. Yeah. It's pretty cool.
Steve: Different situation. Yeah. I also talked to you about that as well because I also own a bank. Yeah. And then, what would you say is the is your biggest regret, and and how did you learn from it?
Greg: My biggest regret. My biggest regret would have to do with, being a better communicator when I was going through hard stuff. I really regret that. It hurt my relationship with my wife. It hurt me personally.
It was damaging. And so, just in the one example I gave you there, but I did that countless times. It wasn't a bad just I'd say that would be it as I I think my and I practice this now all the time, but I think everyone should be more open and honest with their top three or four people. Mhmm. Not to the world.
Not this I'm not talking about social media. I'm talking about your wife. You know, those closest to you, it's important to communicate and share. I didn't do that until, like, ten years ago. Yeah.
Any problem, I just took care of it. Mhmm. Handle it. Now I share. And just those couple.
Right? So I'm still, you know, I still get very but I get vulnerable with them. Mhmm. And that has built such strong relationships in my my with my wife and my my couple handful of closest friends. That was a that was a mistake.
Steve: So I appreciate you bringing this up because I do have these conversations with, you know, colleagues, and there's an extent to, like, how much you can share with your spouse. And I say this, you know, like, this might be offensive to some, but, like, you know, women crave more safety and stability than men do.
Greg: Mhmm.
Steve: We're the hunters. Right? We're willing to go do crazy stuff, stuff that we probably shouldn't do at times, but we wanna take more risk. And, in a lot of relations I've seen in marriages where, like, where where the husband is honest and transparent, it makes everything else harder because the wife then is, like, not sleeping.
Greg: Sure.
Steve: Right? So, like, what what are your thoughts on that?
Greg: That's how the I I lived the way you said the first, fifteen years of my life. And the last ten, I've I've shared everything. Mhmm. And, I haven't felt what you said. I I thought what you said.
I didn't tell her about what I was going through in 2008 because she was pregnant. I had two kids. This by the way, this is my ex wife. So, who is a fun we're on good terms. She she she's a great mother, but but we didn't communicate very well.
Mhmm. And and I and I put that on me more than anything. But I I just commit to myself from now on. I want the person I'm with to know the details of the hard stuff. Now there's certain details, cap rates and or someone who, like, f's me over in the specifics of the nitty gritty.
I'll only share it with some of my business, you know, my my close my couple of close buddies who get that part. Mhmm. But but I'll still tell her high level. And and, look, women are typically right about who we partner with. My I've had some tough partnerships, and they're like, I don't like them.
I go, we're gonna double our business. He's the right guy. And then sure enough, she was right five years later, three years later.
Steve: Yeah.
Greg: So I don't know. I I I'm I'm a proponent of share more than less until she says back off. Yeah. But the other side goes too is I I ask more questions so she shares. It's important that she gives me because because if I'm doing all the talking Mhmm.
And that's I'd say the common problem, my this is my opinion in relationships, is the spouse, male or female, doesn't have something going on in their life. If they're just whatever, fill in the blank. Just they just do this, or they just put tennis, or they just do our stay at home mom. But they need to have something that they are very much in tune with that's not with you that you can come back and talk about and and and you're interested in. Mhmm.
And and so I think that's important too. I don't know. Relationship talks are a whole different thing.
Steve: Well and then just a quick tangent here. You're talking about, you know, like, the the women can are better, at sensing. Mhmm. We now have a a policy where, we cannot hire somebody until Summer, who you met earlier Yeah.
Greg: I met Summer.
Steve: Actually watches the Fathom interview, like, the because we record all the interviews. Uh-huh. And then she has to say, like, red light, green light.
Greg: Oh, really? That's great. Hopefully, she liked it. Yeah. Because if she said
Steve: if she says red light, then we don't even hire
Greg: the person.
Steve: Right? Because, like
Greg: Oh, I thought you were talking about the podcast. That's funny. For for, For your staff.
Steve: For staff. Yeah.
Greg: It makes sense.
Steve: Right? Like, because I'll look at it. It's like, alright. Like, the resume looks good. The the interview went well.
The profile, this and that. Yep. But then she also said, like, I don't like his energy. And I'm like, I don't even know what that means. But she's been right every time.
Every time. So now it's like, I don't even know how to argue with it. You don't like
Greg: that anymore? Yeah. Alright. But I'm sure you've hired one or two before that where she didn't want you to, and that's how you know she's right.
Steve: Right? Oh, there's a bunch that we've hired that
Greg: Yeah. She said no. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: So now we're like, forget it. We're not even gonna hire. We're not gonna get a job offer until she she watches the the job interview. Yeah. Okay.
So, what are some final thoughts you'd like to leave all the listeners with?
Greg: My look. My final thoughts are this should be implemented. If you're if you're looking to grow or scale your business, you should incorporate self directing into your business model somewhere, somehow. And if you're not sure how, reach out to me, and and I'd love to help you. But that first.
And then number two, and I think you're good at you I I saw the way you gave at the mastermind, but my other thing is is give. I mean, you you gave such great content. I should say content, just points and help to individuals. Give first. Mhmm.
It's all about building relationships. And so, you know, build relationships, give first, you know, family first. I mean, I'm big on family and God. And so, you focus on you know, I I I am, like, the weakest entrepreneur if something's not right at home. And so so really focusing at home and I know this is, like, given.
If someone hears this, they'll say, yes. Of course. I know that. But we don't all live it. Mhmm.
So, like, I really focus on getting things right at home every day so I can be the best entrepreneur and and leader at my office. So those that's my get my take back is family first, build relationships, and you should be incorporating self directing your business somehow, some way Mhmm. Because it it will fill a null that you have.
Steve: Yeah. Perfect. And then if someone wants to find out more, I got horizontrust.com/disruptors. Anything anywhere else?
Greg: You can just follow me on social media. I'm Greg Herlene. There's only me and my dad, so and he has no social media, so you'll find me there.
Steve: Alright. Perfect. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Greg: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Steve. Appreciate it.
Steve: My pleasure. Thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you guys next time. Shout out to Steve Train. Jump on the Steve Train. Disrupt us.
