🔥 Turn Dead Leads into Profits $60K/month! 💰❗

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we got Chris Craddock with REI Revive, and he flew in from Fairfax, Virginia to talk about how to make $60,000 a month selling old seller dead leads. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer for some of the top wholesalers in the country, and I am on a mission to create 100 millionaires. Question I get all the time is, how do I become one of the 100 millionaires?

The information on this podcast alone really is enough for you to become a millionaire in the next five to seven years. All you need to do is just take consistent action, and you will become one. When you hear a nugget, please type in the comment section. And after the show, identify your single biggest takeaway and focus on just that for the next seven days. If you get value out of the show, please tag our friend below, share this episode right now.

That way we can all grow together. And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Chris to answer. You ready?

Chris Craddock: I'm ready. Let's do it.

Steve: Alright. So the first question is what got you into real estate?

Chris: Well, I'll tell you, man. I was on staff with an organization called Young Life. I loved it, changed my life, but I made $20,000 a year when I got married. And when my wife got pregnant, you cannot live in the DC area on $20,000 a year. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. I know it's shocking. Shocking. Right?

And so I went to the library, and because before Google was the fountain of all knowledge and information. Right? I went to the library, checked out every book I could find on real estate investing, and, read them like a fiend just nonstop. And then just, I mean, literally, I look back at how little I knew and how much I could have gotten myself in trouble, but I always say massive imperfect action. Right?

Yeah. And so I just started knocking on doors of distressed properties and asking people if they'd sell their property. And when people said, I got somebody to say yes, and I was like, oh, crap. Now what do I do? And so, like, that far ahead of the curve.

But, yeah, got it. I made, 12 times when I made it in a year in the next four months, and that was kind of the like, I I continue to do ministry stuff. It kinda supported my life, but as I've got six kids, and when the money started running out again, I started flipping houses again, and this was after the crash. So, lots of short sales, and so I ended up getting licensed just so I could flip my own short sales because the bank was paying a commission on that. And, during that time, I'd gone back to school.

I'd I have a doctorate in leadership, so I'd always loved leading large groups of people, leading teams. And, December 2014, we we launched a retail team and started really growing that up. And, and then a couple years later, I realized that there was this mesh between investors lived in one side of the world and agents lived in the other. Mhmm. And there was so much money that could be made together if you could actually figure it out.

And so that was kinda what brought us to where we are now. Probably more of an answer than you were asking for. So No.

Steve: That's alright. We can dive deep deep into all of it. So let's just say, you were working it was Young Life. Yeah. So 20,000 a year not working when you got a kid No.

On the way. When was this?

Chris: This was, so I graduated in college 2000. So we graduated I I graduated 2000, was on staff, and then it was 2003 when my wife got pregnant.

Steve: Okay. So this is before the crazy run up.

Chris: Right.

Steve: And you don't write into real estate, or you're just reading books like how do I make more money?

Chris: No. So it's interesting. So my dad's side of the family was, very blue collar. My grandfather's a road worker, made like $3 an hour, but he ended up dying a wealthy man because every time he cobbled together any dollars, he bought real estate in North Arlington, which ended up becoming a very expensive part of, of that area, the DC area. And my mom's side of the family, very white collar, and they they had I mean, just always invested in real estate.

So for me, real estate was just something I kinda understood because I I saw that, you know, people make a lot of money in real real estate, whether you're, you know, educated and, you know, and like a banker or whether you're just kind of a guy on the road that just says, okay. I know that real estate makes money. And and and it makes sense. Right? You're never gonna see your grandfather that looks back and says, oh, man.

I'm glad I sold that house forty years ago. Like, you know, like, real estate makes sense.

Steve: So you got to witness it growing up on both sides of the family, but you initially said not to pursue real estate. Right. Why?

Chris: Well, man, I was such a mess in high school and, you know, for so many reasons. You know? Like, we all got our baggage. Right? We've all got our crazy.

And, you know, I had just an older guy that came and started spending time with me, with Young Life, kinda taught me what it was to be a man and how to, you know, how to just mentored me. And Got it. It was it was just so powerful that, I just I wanted to give back and do that for other people. And so I, you know, I was so excited to go back on on staff with Young Life and help other people that, you know, were were in a similar situation that I was in. And so I loved it.

And but then at some point, you know, you also gotta take care of your family.

Steve: Absolutely. So you got, again, both sides of the family experience in real estate. Well, I guess your grandfather, but you didn't really get to learn from him. It was just timing wise. But you obviously have the situation the the resources available to you.

Why go to the library to learn about real estate when you had that readily available?

Chris: Well, here's the funny thing. I still I I mean, I'll never forget this. So the first book so I I checked out every book that I could find. There was a little shelving area on on investing and real estate, and one of the books was Rich Dad Poor Dad, on there, which is not technically a real estate investment book, but it's, you know, it it kind of is. And It's a gateway book.

Right. Right. So I I still remember reading that, and our whole my mom's side of the family was going out to dinner. My my uncle is a commercial loan officer, and so and I know he just hangs out with, like, wealthy people all the time. I had just always thought of him as, like, hanging with wealthy people.

And I remember reading that afternoon that, he says in there that all wealthy people have their own LLC or their own corporation. And And so I I thought that was so interesting. So I remember sitting at dinner in this little, like, hole in in Centerville and said to my uncle, I'm like, Larry, so I know you hang with wealthy people all the time. And, I mean, I'm, like, 22 or 23 at the time. So, I'm like, I know you hang out with wealthy people all the time.

Like, do you do all your friends have their own LLCs? They run, like, so they can have tax advantages and all this. He's like, I've got an LLC. I lose, like, $60 a year on it. He's like, I run everything through it.

And I was like, ah. So so that's like a thing. And and and the interesting thing to me was, you know, at that point, I started asking him a lot of questions, about it because you realize there's money has a language, you know, and that that if you don't use the language, right, it's like, yeah, I mean, you I know you teach sales. Right? Sales has a language as well.

And I feel like a lot of times when people get into it, it's like my four year old. She uses the wrong words, but she doesn't know she's using the wrong words. She just doesn't know any better. Everybody else that actually knows the right words knows she's using the wrong words. And I think that's kinda what happens with us and money is that we, we get into things and and the people that understand, they understand, but if we don't ask questions, then we're gonna just have to figure out on our own and Right.

You know, and that and that's the key of, like, shortening the learning curve. So I started to ask my uncle. There was another guy that I really respected that I started asking him a ton of questions, and and that was one of the things that I I as I look back at my adult life, every leveling up came with me finding somebody that was further ahead in that area and just asking them so many questions so that I could kinda, you know, Tony Robbins says, compress those decades into days. You know? So that

Steve: that's So you did have a mentor in the family. Yeah. I started with the books, but you were still it it it kinda I look at it like, you know, there's the good gyms. Right? And then there's the gyms that we all have to work out of until we can work our way up into the good gym.

Right. So, so you got, you were reading the books to get comfortable to ask the questions of your uncle to ask better formulated questions, I guess.

Chris: Well, yeah. So the interesting thing was I didn't even I didn't really even think about I just knew he hung out with wealthy people, but I didn't really understand that what he knew about money at the time until I asked that question, and then it clicked. I'm like, man, he knows a lot of stuff. And so literally, after that, it was it was him and then this other guy who we went to church with. Every time I made any financial decision, I would just call them.

Or anytime I was thinking about stuff, I would call them and just say, hey. What do you think about this? And and it's interesting, through my life now, I I I kinda joke that I've got my own personal board of directors, you know, people that are gonna be in dads, gonna be in husbands, gonna be in, you know, good with their money, all these different things that I'll call and ask questions too. Even now, I still have that. But, that was one of those really, really big keys was, you know, when I realized that that Larry had all that information, I just, man, just kept calling, kept calling.

Tell me about it.

Steve: Fortunate. Right? And it's a blessing that you had that opportunity.

Chris: Oh,

Steve: yeah. So you you pick up the book. You're you're you're talking to your uncle. How and you're you were saying you're knocking the door so fast, didn't even know what to say when they said yes. So let's talk about the decision from your wife is pregnant to you're knocking on doors.

Yeah. How long was that?

Chris: Oh, bro. I'm I'm a quick mover. You know, there's what is it? Ready, fire, aim? I think I'm like, you know, fire, ready, aim.

So I don't know. They're, like, the total opposite. But, yeah. So as soon as I realized that we weren't because we wanted her to stay home with the kids. We always decided that from from the very get go.

We wanted to, you know, to just kinda help shape and and guide and mold the kids, like, as much as we could. And so, I was just like, okay. I can't we can't live on this. I need to find a way to make make ends meet. And so, I mean, almost immediately, I just I was like, okay.

I know it's gonna be in real estate. Now I now I gotta find a plan. And I was reading one of the books and it said, go find people in distress. So what I did was, I was like, you know what? I think in the backs of newspapers, again newspapers are talking early two thousand.

Steve: It was a thing. It was a thing.

Chris: So, like, literally, our library had all these newspapers. In the backs of newspapers, it had trustee sales. And so I literally went to the library and just wrote down all of the people that were up for trustee sales, and then just started going to their houses and just saying, hey, will you sell me your house?

Steve: So you weren't looking at people that says, I need to sell. You're going straight to the public foreclosure notices and they say, for Yes. Exactly. I love it. Exactly.

Alright. So again, how soon from

Chris: I mean, immediately. Like, I Like, two months? Oh, bro. Like, I she she got pregnant. We're like, we're not gonna be able to make ends meet if if we don't have your salary, here.

And so, like, that night, I went to the library. I mean, again, massive imperfect action. Like like, move right away. Went to the library, checked out, I think it was, like, 21 books, like, every book they could. And I am I'm slightly neurotic in the fact that, like, when I'm, you know, I'm like a horse with blinders on, all of a sudden I see it, and I'm I'm just all in.

And so that's all I did for the next, like, probably week was read these books. And then as I was reading them, all of a sudden, it came. I was like, okay. I I'll I'll who's likely to sell? Well, somebody that needs to sell.

Obviously, it's somebody that's got a foreclosure. And if they need to sell, I'll figure out how to solve their problem. I didn't know how I'd solve it, but I'd figure it out. Right? You know?

And so, so I just I just was like, okay. How can I find that? And then, you know, in the in one of the books, it said, a lot of times in the backs of newspapers, it says that. So I was like, alright. So I went to the library, found some newspapers because I didn't get a newspaper at the time.

And then, and then I just, you know, made a list of, you know, back I don't know if you remember MapQuest, but I I made a list of MapQuest, like a driving list, and just went around and started just driving to houses, knocking on doors. I still remember that first guy that, that said yes. It was so funny because he's like, I do want to, but I've got a girlfriend in here, and I don't wanna talk about this in in front of her. So, here's my phone number. Can we talk in, like, two hours?

And I was like, yeah. I'll give you a call in two hours, and then we made the deal work.

Steve: That's awesome. And the reason why I'm asking this question is because there are a lot of people that are learning. Right? I mean, we put this information on YouTube, on iTunes, and so on so that we can, you know, help people learn the information. But at the end of the day, information doesn't make you money.

The action that makes you money.

Chris: Right. Right?

Steve: And so that's the reason I'm asking, like, how fast he did it. And, I mean, a week from, hey. We're pregnant to knocking on doors. That's fast. I'm a pretty fast mover.

I am not that fast, so that's awesome. Absolutely amazing. Okay. So you knock on that guy's door. Did you buy that guy's house?

Chris: I did. I did. So let's talk about that.

Steve: So this is your first deal?

Chris: Yep. Yep.

Steve: So a week later, you're knocking on doors, and this guy's, yes. I'll sell my house. Call me in two hours, and you still didn't know what the heck you were doing.

Chris: Didn't know what I was doing. So here's the funny thing. Like, I go home to my wife, and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. So first thing I do, I call my uncle, and I said, hey, Larry. How do I get money to buy a house?

And he was like he says to me, he's and at the time, you could get a commercial loan for 5 percent down because it was before the February, and he's like, well, you need 5% down. I was like, well, I don't know. I'm gonna have 5%. And he's like, well, find somebody that you can give money you can borrow money from if it's a good deal, and and just pay them some extra. Right?

Like, I mean, literally, I knew nothing. Right? So he's, like, explaining, you know, there's hard money and then there's private money is what he's basically explaining. He's, like, pay private money rates and to get the down payment for it, you know, which is a little cheaper than hard money. And I'm, like, okay.

And he's he's, like, he's, like, I would probably do it. Your grandmother would probably do it. As long as the deal is right, you can just go to the right person, and they would do it. And so I was like, okay. That's cool.

And then I'm like, now how do I get the deal? And so I didn't know. So Katherine and I were like, well, we had a real estate agent who was a friend of ours. We're like, let's just go to him and ask him to do all the paperwork for us and make it happen, and we'll split the deal with him. Because, like, I just didn't know what I was doing.

I didn't have a contract. I didn't have any paperwork. And so we're literally fill figuring it out all the time. And and one of the things that I've I heard Tony Robbins say one time, again, I'm a big Tony Robbins fan, is it's never a lack of resources. It's always a lack of resourcefulness.

Right? So it's always just how do you figure it out? And so, I mean, I'm on the fly figuring this out. And, so so I go to, I go to John I I just said to him, I'm like, hey. I've got a deal.

Will you look at it? And if if if you think it's as good of a deal as I think it looks like it is, can we just split the deal and you do all the paperwork and make sure that, like, we're we're not in trouble here? And he's like, yeah, sure. So we split it up, we did it, and and here's the crazy thing, we were gonna fix and flip it, but the market was just starting to heat up in 2003, so it was before I even knew what the term wholetail was. And so we ended up, I kept knocking on doors.

I got another deal that was like a massive one, and, and so but I needed the money. I didn't have money, so he's like, well, why don't we just put that one further out, and let's just put this on the market for a little bit less than what we could get and do it. So we basically did a whole tail on that first one. We made something like $36 or something like that that we split in half and then moved right into the next one. And, oh, man.

I'll tell you. The next one, it was a husband and wife that were divorcing. And I'll tell you, I I'll never forget sitting there at the table. We won't need to get I'll just say this real quick. We were sitting there and she was like, I I've been given the right to make the decision on selling the house.

How much, how much could I sell at breakeven? And I was like looked at their number, and I'm like, well, here's your number. So, probably right right there. Plus, I guess we'll pay your your stuff, and that real estate agent goes with me as well. And so he did all that, and he's like she's like, I hate him, and I want him to make zero money, and he's agreed with me that we'll sell for whatever I want, so we're gonna sell at breakeven.

And I was like, okay. You know, like, inside, I'm like, be cool, Chris. Be cool. You know? But on the outside, like, on the outside, I'm like, like, calm, calm.

But on the inside, I'm screaming. And so, yeah, that was that was our number two deal, and, yeah, that the rest is history.

Steve: And what did you clear on that one?

Chris: About $76,000.

Steve: Okay. You're half or total?

Chris: Total on that one. Okay. So,

Steve: you split in 76.

Chris: Which is more than I made in a year by by a lot.

Steve: You know, almost 80, almost 40. So, I mean, your first two deals, you're making three times your annual salary.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: So that's incredible. But you also didn't quit that. So you're doing this. These things are humming along. You're still door knocking.

Chris: Right.

Steve: And you're still doing the Young Life Yep. Thing. So what was the schedule like? Because one one of the, I don't wanna say excuses. One of the reasons why people have challenges is that they've got a job.

Chris: Mhmm.

Steve: So what was your schedule like between Young Life and door knocking?

Chris: Well, here's the funny thing. You know, I ask the question I ask you is one of my favorite questions I ask people is, what do you do for fun? And you're like, I love to work. You know, I love this. This is fun, figuring out problems and stuff.

And so for me, it just became my hobby is is is what I did. You're figuring out puzzles. Right? You're you're solving problems. You're figuring out puzzles.

You're making things work and, and and building things. And that's, like, one of the things that I just I mean, like, makes me come alive. You know, there's the old movie Chariots of Fire. Have you ever seen that movie?

Steve: A long time ago.

Chris: Oh, there's this there's a scene in that movie where, you know, he was gonna go be a missionary, and but he was running in the Olympics, and his sister's like, why are you doing the Olympic thing? You were you're supposed to go to to China and be a missionary with me. And and and he's like, listen, God made me for for China, but he also made me fast. And when I run, I feel his pleasure. And I'm like, when I'm building things, I man, bro, I come alive and I love it, and it makes me so excited.

And so so for me, that was that was more fun than just about anything else I could be doing. So I had my job, but then that was my my fun time too.

Steve: So this is your your your side hobby? Yeah. So, you know, I I kinda, like in this to this, and maybe I can help ask my team to help me create this. You know, I I you know, that there's that Lego movie. Right?

And they're master builders.

Chris: Yeah. Right?

Steve: And so I I kinda picture myself as, like, you know, jumping off the cliff and, like, building a Lego plane on the way down. Right? And it sounds like you kinda Yeah. That situation. And as an entrepreneur, we kinda run into that.

Right. So alright. So you're doing this on the side. It's pleasure. It's not pain.

Right. And so I think maybe for some other people, it's hard, to do the two things. So you didn't necessarily need the time block because you were, like, looking forward to it.

Chris: Right.

Steve: Alright.

Chris: And and, you know, I think the way we're built physiologically, right, we get when when we get a win, we get this dopamine hit that that is is so exciting. And so, you know, I think that that's one of the reasons why it's so hard is because people don't push hard enough to get the win. Right? You know, in math, there's a there's a math, you know, algorithm, rate times time equals distance. Right?

Well, if you put in enough time, you know, or enough rate, you know, your time is your time. Right? But you raise the rate, you're gonna get to that distance, which is your first deal faster. And when you get that first deal, everybody knows that the joy of that first deal. Right?

That dopamine hit, they're like, yes. It's happening. It's real.

Steve: It's happening. And it gives

Chris: you drive to do the next one.

Steve: Well and if it it affirms, right, that dream you've got, that vision you have, you know, because you have people telling you, like, you can't do it. This doesn't work. It's a scam. And, you know, we've referred to it in the past as shut up money.

Chris: Right. Like, once you get

Steve: that, now you can tell them to shut up because I know this works. Alright. So you got the deal going. You got you're you're doing really well. What was the journey like after that?

I mean, did you continue with this partnership with this realtor? And what was that journey like until the, you know, the crash?

Chris: Well, here was the crazy thing. You know, I think everything happens for a reason. So the agent was making a lot of money and basically just filling out paperwork to make a lot of money, and I look back and I'm like, dang, he had the best deal ever. But the nutty thing was I'm I've always been a delayed gratification guy. Right?

Like, so every time we made money, I said to him, I'm like, let's put the money aside and put it aside for our next deal. Right? Let's invest in the business. Let's let's do the next deal so that we're not borrowing money from everybody. And he's like, yeah.

Totally good. Totally good. So the first one we do, you know, we make, like, $18 each, and, and we're all gonna put it aside. I go to his house, and he's got a new minivan. And I was like, What?

The second one, we I go over to his house that has window like, windows throughout the whole house. And then when the third one comes around, like basically he was

Steve: He's spending as fast as he makes sense. Then he

Chris: And then he was asking if I could just spot him for his half and but keep everything the same. And then he started asking for a bigger, like, it just got weird and He was asking

Steve: for more than half.

Chris: Oh, yeah. Well, he was asking to get, the 3% commission on it as well. That was generous of him. Man, he was yeah. So half plus the 3% commission.

So it was, it got a little rough. He was a friend and everything else, so it just made it hard. And so for me, I had made enough money at that point that I was like, you know what? I can live for a long time. I love ministry.

I'm just you know, I I do think everything happens for a reason, so it pushed me back. And I just I continued to do ministry stuff for a long time. And then as we had more and more kids, I I just would do some side side gigs, here and there and just to make money. And one of my butt one of my, like, really, really close friends, he's, it's so funny. He he owns a carpet business.

He's Persian. He owns a carpet business. I'd I'd tell him he's a walking stereotype. But, he's, but yeah. So he would just call me all the time every time, like, that he was having problems, like like, getting stuff out, and I would do side hustle stuff, and I was just working my butt off.

And I'm like, why am I doing all this work? Like, these this, like, manual labor, getting out, like, a a wet carpet in a basement when and making almost no money for it when I could go back into, go back into real estate. And so then in 2011, that's when I started, like all these people were asking me. They're like, hey, I know you did real estate. Can you help me with it?

And so I was helping other people get into it, and then they were making a fortune. And I'm like, you guys are all making a fortune, and I'm like, making, you know, $300 to spend a day cleaning out a wet basement. And so, so that's when I started to get back into that.

Steve: And So you you you you had this great early start. It sounds like maybe you kinda stopped doing the door knocking thing?

Chris: Yeah. I I did because, like, it it was just interesting because when like, I'm you know, I don't know if you're a DISC profile guy. I'm, like, massively high d, massively high I on DISC profile. And so And I

Steve: was meeting, obviously, after, like, three minutes.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, d, like, I'm just just massively driven, but I'm also so interpersonal. Like, I love my relationships with people.

Like, I like and so for me, when when that relationship went a little sour, I was like, you know what? I made a lot of money. I'm I I love doing ministry. I love helping people. Like, I'm just gonna keep doing this for a while.

Steve: And You put the business on pause because you didn't wanna upset the other guy.

Chris: Yeah. There was just so much relational stuff involved

Steve: in that. Okay. So then how many deals you did you do with with him?

Chris: I think it was like four or five, something like that. Yeah.

Steve: And then right after that, nothing. You went through the recession.

Chris: Yeah. Which actually is probably a good thing because if I know myself, I would have just kept going big and big, and then all of a sudden I would have had. So honestly, it was probably the biggest blessing ever, you know, kept me from bankruptcy, my guess is.

Steve: Well, that's good. So then you were, you had this great run, and then you went back to 20,000 a year, and then you were doing $300

Chris: side hustle. I was making a little bit more money, you know, I was making like $65,000 a year at that point. So, which, you know, because, you know, just time went by and I made made more money. But yeah. But yeah.

Then as I had more kids, you know, you know, with kids, it's like having a bathtub full of money that somebody pulls the drain, and then it's just gone.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. So then in 2011, people were asking you for help. Mhmm. Is this when you became licensed?

Chris: So the first I I I didn't get licensed till 2012. I started helping some people, and then, then I started doing some short sales myself because I saw that everything the path that I was going, the distressed, like, trustee sales, they were all short sales at this point. And so then I one of my buddies is like, hey, did you and I didn't I didn't even know what a short sale was. And my buddy was like, hey, did you know that you could call the bank and say, I'll buy it. Will you sell it for less than what they owe?

And I was like, what? So I still remember we called the bank on this the first short sale I did. We called the bank, and, they had a first trust of whatever it was. The second trust, when we called, they said, yeah. You know, he owes a 125,000 as a second mortgage, but if you give us 12,000, we'll, 12510¢ on the dollar, we'll we'll call it.

And I I was like, oh, that's a deal now. It's a deal. And so so it was the first one we did. We actually the crazy thing is, this was another buddy of mine that I met who I actually played indoor soccer with, and he taught me about subject to. So, essentially, we took his first trust and did that as a subject to and then got the other one as 10¢ on the dollar, basically flipped up this, like, high end condo in in Reston and, and then sold it.

And I don't know. I think I I I'm a little fuzzy. I think we made, like, $40 or something like that, but it was it's pretty sweet because it was, like, all we had to pay was the $12.05 out of pocket and then take over his payments, and it was it was done. It was great.

Steve: So alright. So you get back into it, and now you start doing short sells. Yep. You You were doing the short sell negotiation, or you had someone else doing the short sell negotiation?

Chris: I brought somebody else in to do the negotiation.

Steve: You're acquiring short sells, get licensed so you can also get compensated

Chris: Right.

Steve: On the short sells. At which point were you starting to help people, invest? Or because I I know you got this giant real estate team. So, like, what was that evolution?

Chris: Yeah. So so we were doing the flips for for a while, and I still remember, yeah, it was it was just so crazy because, I I'd go back to school and I'd gotten a doctorate in leadership because, like, in ministry, I just led large numbers of volunteers and large numbers of teams. And so right around the same time, somebody gave me Gary Keller's book, The Millionaire Real Estate Agent, and I was reading it. I'm like, dang. I see a path.

Like, immediately, I'm like, I see a path to netting 7 figures with this. And so because that's the name of the book. Right? Shocker. And so so it started to make sense, but I was like, but I really like the investing.

And, and so we started making a lot of money and investing. And, actually, here's one of the big keys is I I ended up borrowing tons and tons of money to keep keep keep going. We we ended up having, like, 26 properties. And one morning, I realized, like, we, basically, we owed, like, $10,000,000 to friends, family, banks, everything else, and we did not have enough money in the bank to pay our overhead after, like, three more months. And so it was a combo of seeing that book.

I I started not being able to flip short sales as much anymore because the banks changed their algorithms, and so we realized we could make money by selling them to just random people on the market. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, dang. We got ourselves into trouble because we found lots of good deals that we couldn't turn them around fast enough to get them on the market. And so I got as creative as I've ever been in my life. I I mean, I was doing subject to with other people, which I would never recommend.

Don't ever be the be the bank, but I was doing that with other people because I just I didn't have the money to work on the projects. And so we ended up fighting like crazy right around that 2014 time when I was reading the Gary Keller book. And so, we started building this this retail, like, team as fast as we could. And, I mean, I ended up getting out of all those properties. It took me two years.

It cost me personally $660,000, which I paid off in two years, but it also forced me to grow my retail team really, really fast. Wow. So that yeah. Because it was December 2016 that I I paid off the last of that $6.60. And then, you know, I'll tell you, one of the one of the fun things is a a mentor of mine said this, never trust somebody that doesn't walk with a limp.

I've got a massive limp, and I am massively fearful about going too big on things because I'm I'm a big thinker. Like, I wanna think big always, but I'm always like, okay. There are things that can go wrong. You're like, you know, it used to be like, just go, you'll figure it out, but now you realize, okay. Figure it out, but also mitigate any downside as well.

So there's

Steve: a couple of things I wanna add here. Gary Keller is a genius. Right? Yeah. Someone I respect tremendously.

I actually got a chance to watch him speak when he was touring to talk about the one thing. There are a lot of people that hate, our industry as far as the education side. Right? Yeah. They're like, you know, you should give it away free or, you know, if you're really successful, why are you teaching it?

Chris: Yeah. You

Steve: know? And I look at the millionaire real estate agent is that is probably one of the most successful information marketing pieces ever. Yeah. He sells it for $20. You read it, and you have to read it like, oh my god.

I should be a Keller Keller Williams agent. And every team leader at Keller Williams offers to give it to you.

Chris: Right. I

Steve: wanted to read this and make it easier for them to recruit you to Keller Williams. And I know this because Just your I was given that book, to to go work for Keller Williams. So so

Chris: so I

Steve: hit on that. That's one of the best information marketing successful, case studies I I can ever, think of. But, nothing disrespectful. Nothing but crazy respect for Gary Keller. Second thing is you got well, the 26 properties, 10,000,000 in in in debt.

One of the things that we kinda start off with is we always struggle. Like, how do I get that first deal? How do I get that first deal? You didn't run into that, but most people do. Right?

The flip side of being able to do your first deal really fast is that you can get in trouble really fast. And, something I read a long time ago is that, more people, fail due to indigestion Delivering happiness. Right?

Chris: Yeah. The Zappos book. Right?

Steve: The starvation. Right? They're more likely more businesses fail because they got too big too fast

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: Versus not being able to get enough business. Right. So how did you get into that situation, and what were the lessons you learned from it?

Chris: Yeah. Well, I'll say that book, Delivering Happiness is It's an

Steve: amazing book.

Chris: So good. So good. And I read that, and I thought about myself immediately. I was like, oh, that was it. Yeah.

So the man, you know, my wife was just like, the promise I made to her was, like, our house won't be at risk. And I'll tell you, yeah, I was our house was at risk, and, I was losing my hair, grinding my teeth at night. Like like, thankfully my hair grew back. But,

Steve: So literally your hair.

Chris: Oh, literally. I was waking up in the morning and, like, losing clumps of hair. I was that stressed, and it was it was nutty. But here was the thing. What I learned was, if you if you work hard, what you focus on expands.

Right? There's a reticular activating system. We've heard about that, which is the things you focus on. Your brain is always filtering out information. So what you what you focus on, everything that you bring in, if as long as you're educating yourself, as long as you're learning, which is also a big key, like, there's not a day that goes by that I don't consume at least an hour of content of something.

But as long as you're learning, you're gonna be able to figure out. And if your reticular activating system is telling you, you need to figure out how to find more deals, you will find more deals as long as you take action on it. And so the sad thing is what I like to focus on is finding more deals. The thing I didn't like to do, like, it's like if I'm a hunter, you know, I like to go hunt, but I don't wanna clean it. You know?

And that goes back to the, you know, the rocket fuel book, right? Like, I'm a visionary. I want a big, massive, imperfect action, but I don't wanna do the, you know, the smaller, you know, implementing Mundane. Get it done.

Steve: Yeah. Other important things.

Chris: Yes. Yes. Yes. And actually, that's probably one of the reasons our team grew as fast as we did is because I've learned to hire well for people that are good at what they're good. And also, one of the things I think visionaries don't do is they don't respect the role of the people that do that well, which I didn't early on before I matured into

Steve: They didn't appreciate it.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. But so that was the big thing was I just was always focusing on finding more deals, finding more deals. And as we did, the deals kept coming, but we didn't focus on how to get the deals out. Right?

Steve: Yeah. So good at acquiring. Not so good at moving the properties.

Chris: Right. Got

Steve: it. Okay. And so what were the big lessons from that?

Chris: Well, the first lesson was that anything you focus on will happen. Right? Like, if you ex if you focus on it, it'll expand. Right? Like, we wanted deals, we could find deals.

The second thing is, you know, you've gotta find people that are great in gift sets that you're not great in, And that was one of the that was probably one of the biggest keys there is that, I was just thinking about acquiring more deals. And so as we've as I've built out my my businesses now we've got nine businesses now. As we've built those out now, all of those have to have, you know, somebody that is working on them. And, actually, again, this goes back for to Gary Keller. You know, he was, like, a mentor to me for for many years.

He said, you can have as many businesses as you want as long as they've all got a folder, like a Manila folder Mhmm. That contains that business, and and it's got a face on that folder, and that face is not your face. Right? And so at the time, I was just so involved in in everything, and then the things that I wasn't good at just fell through the cracks.

Steve: Right. Alright. So, at some point, you realized because you're good at finding deals, and you're a realtor at this point.

Chris: Right.

Steve: You saw this kinda opportunity to marry the two worlds. Yeah. What was that that you discovered?

Chris: So our our retail business grew pretty quickly, to about 40,000,000 in volume. And then, and then the next year, we grew to, like, 43,000,000 in volume, which was the smallest amount of growth, but I was working so much harder. And so what I did was I just I started listening to a lot of podcasts, and anybody I liked their vibe and I felt like I could learn from, I just reached out to them and said, hey. Will you talk to me? And they did.

I I was shocked at how many people, like, spent like, they're making so much money, and, you know, they just were willing to take calls from me. And so, one of the guys said this. He said, Chris, I I was in exactly the same situation. I went from 40 to 42,000,000 one year, and and I was like, I'm working so much harder, and it just clawing for a little bit more. And he said, a mentor of mine taught me this.

Stop looking for where you're gonna find that one next deal. And because you're the leader of the organization. You're, quote, the rainmaker. You need to make it rain. One deal is not making it rain.

That's gonna make it drizzle. Right? Like like, you need to figure out where can you go to find one relationship that'll bring in five deals, 10 deals, 50 deals. And so I started thinking about it. I'm like, okay.

As a retail guy, I could go to builders, or I could go to all of these investors. Right? Because and I came from the investor world, and I understand the investor world. And so these investors, I think about it, and I'm like, okay. If I get 20 people that call, and I'm a wholesaler or a fix and flip guy, and 20 people that call and raise their hand and say I wanna sell, of those 20, maybe four will say, I wanna sell in your buy box, and maybe one of them you're gonna get wrapped up out of 20.

Right? And so I'm like, well, what about the other 19? Somebody's monetizing those. So I just thought, I'm gonna call the biggest wholesaler in our area and actually one of the bigger wholesalers, you know, out there. And so I just called them and I said, hey.

Will you, will you give me your your retail leads? I'll I'll close them. And they're like, no. We've tried this. Like and in fact, we've got a top agent, you know, like, one of the top agents in the country working them.

We we've given them a thousand a thousand leads in the last six months and they've closed six. That's just not worth our time. They said, we've tried opening a brokerage. We've tried opening all of these different things. It's just not worth our time.

And I'm like, come on. Let me let me just let me just close this. And one of the things I've learned over time is persistence breaks resistance. So Yeah. I just kept calling over and over and over again.

And we you know, they they liked me, I liked them, but, man, they were, like, talk to the hand kind of stuff. And, eventually, they gave me a 150 leads. They're like, okay, we're we'll send you over a 150 leads. They gave me a 150 leads. I called all of them, like, seven You called I I personally called them because I you know, the way I see it is I wanna build out the system.

Right? And then and then I I wanna teach other people how to do it. And so I I personally called all of them, and 70 of them already sold to an investor or an agent or somebody. The other 80 that were left, like, 30 of them were out of area, deals, and so there was, like, fifty fifty deals. And so I'm like, okay.

If there's 50 here, she got six with a thousand, I've gotta get six with 50. Right? A reticular activating system. I got my goal. I ended up getting exactly six.

I wonder if I would have hoped for 10, whether I would have gotten 10. But I got six. So I called them and I said, hey, guys. I got six six deals. I'm gonna send you a referral fee on these six.

They're like, you got six? Out of what we sent you? And I was like, yeah. Why don't you come in next week? So I came in, met with them, and they're like, Chris, we think you're a nice guy.

You know? We don't wanna be a jerk or whatever and and just say go pound sand. They're like, but we why don't you stop calling us? So we gave you we said, let's pick, like, a 150 leads from, like, five years ago and give them a 150, and you actually close six of them from five year old leads. And they're like, okay.

Let's start working together. And so we started working together, started building out the system, and actually, it's crazy. I mean, we were routinely sending that group alone over $60,000 a month in referral fees, which, like, 3 quarters of $1,000,000 in a year for leads that were, like, literally sitting in their database dying.

Steve: Trash leads.

Chris: Oh, yeah. Trash. Like trash to cash. Right? Like that that was the main thing.

And so that actually the start of that relationship really propelled our retail team pretty big, and it also helped Oh, they. Yeah, exactly. And and it helped them as well. And so then, just started building this this out, and, I mean, it's it's just been incredible. It's been incredible.

Steve: Well, I love this story. So one thing that we always have this challenge, right, is, like, how do we do this legally, morally, ethically? You know? The, the more successful we are, the more eyes we have on us.

Chris: Right.

Steve: Especially now you're growing your reach. And, I mean, I'm looking at the comments here. I mean, you're you're well known. So how do we sell how do we pay on dead leads?

Chris: Right. Well, here's the first thing. One, success leaves clues. Right? Like, so you look at almost all of the massive wholesalers in the country, and almost every single one of them is either licensed themselves.

I mean, they're either licensed themselves or they've got somebody in their organization that's licensed. Why do they do that? There's obviously a reason there. Plus, I think, a lot of states are requiring wholesalers to be licensed now. They move in

Steve: another direction.

Chris: Yeah. So might as well get ahead of the curve there. So there's that. Number two, and I and I teach this in my program, like, because that's a big, big, big piece. Number two is 25% of all real estate agents in any MLS do zero deals.

Zero deals. So 25% do one to three deals and it's usually their mom, their brother, their best friend. Right? And 25% do zero deals. So there's only 50% of agents that are actually doing business.

So you can very easily go to these agents that are doing zero deals and say, hey, how would you like to run your license through our LLC? And, you know, you handle our referral business, we'll pay you something on on each of the deals, and you basically bring them in house. So you've got an agent to bring in house. So either get licensed, get somebody on your team license, bring somebody in house. I know that there's some Different states are different about this, and so I don't wanna make a big point on this because I don't want anybody to get in trouble.

Steve: We're not licensed attorneys. We're not real estate commissioners. Right? Run this by someone else as a legal authority.

Chris: Right. 100%. Thank you. Disclaimer. Boom.

Yeah. So a lot of people, you know, there are people that open up marketing LLCs and they sell their leads. So that's that's another way that that people do it. And there's there's a lot of ways to do that, and I don't wanna necessarily jump into all the different ways that you can do that.

Steve: Well, so, I mean, the the the two main ones. Right? There's the, getting paid referral fee.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: And then there's just paying or selling leads. Like, there are the two legal ways. I don't wanna get into any other ways, but the two main legal ways is selling by lead. Right? So, like, a certain dollar figure per lead or a certain percentage.

Right. Do you have any figures that you recommend as far as a percentage, per closed transaction and a dollar figure per lead?

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the dollar per figure per lead that you just all the every market's so different. I I don't wanna get into that just because, like, yeah. A $5,000, property in Baltimore is gonna be different from a, like, $5,000,000 property in LA.

Right. Right? So, but as far as, the leads go and and I don't I think it you should be setting appointments. That's what I teach, is setting appointments, not not just giving a lead, because everybody knows it's so hard to get a seller on the phone as it is. You need to set that appointment.

But you also have to phrase it right. You have to work it right because

Steve: Set the expectations.

Chris: Yeah. Exactly. And and I'll tell you, if you set appointments and you're doing a lot of them, then you should be at about 35%. If you're just doing a handful, like, you know, maybe a couple of month, then 25% is Yeah. Is fair.

Steve: Alright. So 35% for booking the appointment Right. Which I think is probably even more generous to the realtor's favor, than it is for the wholesaler. So that's great. So then people that are listening then, the number one recommendation is go get a license.

Chris: Yeah. Get I mean, I'll tell you, the Success Leagues Clues, like like, name almost every big wholesaler, and I'll tell you, there's there's gonna be, like, a couple of them that are not licensed, but almost all of them are either licensed or somebody in their organization is licensed. Yeah. So

Steve: I'm gonna just do a really cheap plug for myself over here. Right? So I'm licensed. Right? I got a brokerage.

Brent Daniels, who you know. Yeah. Jesse Burrell, Evo Dragunov. These guys are all licensed with Stunning Homes Realty. There's a reason why.

We wanna monetize these leads. So alright. A moment ago, you were talking about how you're addicted to growing businesses, and you've got nine.

Chris: Right. Right.

Steve: What are those nine businesses?

Chris: Well, our retail business is one. We got a business called, have you heard of LegalShield? Mhmm. I love LegalShield. A lot of people, they need to put together their their entities.

$150, they'll put together an LLC for you and give you ninety days of free legal advice. You can call an an attorney for like, I think in the investor world, LegalShield is one of the greatest things ever, because you literally can call an attorney for, like, I think it's, like, $35 a month. Mhmm. You know, as much as you want. So LegalShield, I've got a title business.

I own a property and and casualty insurance business. I have a rental portfolio. I have a fix and flip business. My wife runs a, a branch for for lending. I have a coaching business.

And, oh my gosh, I'm losing I've got one more that I can't remember. It's ghosting me right now, but I've got one more as well. Oh, construction. A construction business.

Steve: Yeah. So you're not counting the the downline? For eXp. No. No.

No.

Chris: I'm not. So maybe we'll we'll call it 10. Okay. Let's let's make it a 10. I mean,

Steve: I would count that as 10. Yeah. Okay. So going back to Gary's comment earlier, you know, as long as each business is in the Manila folder, has got a face on it. I mean, it's something that is so powerful to hear, but I never thought about that with all these different business.

Right? I don't have nine or 10 businesses, but I have a handful. Right. And, man, that piece of information was so helpful. So I think, you know, one of the biggest takeaways, I think, for anyone listening to this is is that one bit of advice.

You can have all these different businesses, but it's gotta be a different face, and this is not yours. And we originally connected, I think, through Tom Kroll.

Chris: Right.

Steve: Right? Am I mistaken?

Chris: It was either Tom or Darren. One one of the two. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, in in I mean, you're in in Family Mastermind as well. Is that right?

Steve: Mastermind as well. Yeah.

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. So Talk about that. I've had a couple of conversations. I mean, Tom has been very generous with his time with me.

Chris: You know? Yeah. I'll post something, and he's

Steve: like, you know, reach out to me. So I'll call him. And he's been incredibly generous, again, with his time with me. Can you talk about, like, what it's like working with him?

Chris: Yeah. Tom is the man. I love Tom. He's, he's so so funny. And I I don't know.

My, my family calls like, everybody just makes fun of me, like, rolls their eyes that I'm cheesy, and, love the cheesy jokes and everything else. And Tom's a bit goofy too, so I just I love his, his humor style. And, but yeah, one of the other things with Tom is like, it's just like, hey, go get it done. Even if it's not perfect, just do it, right? Just do it and make it happen.

And so I just, just the whole style, plus culturally, you know, as, you know, he's, you know, just very open as, like, a Christian guy who says, you know, he he wants to serve people and help people and love people, and and I just I love that personally because that's that's kinda what I feel like part of my mission here on Earth is as well. And so there's just all these things about that that I just I just love. So yeah. No. I mean, I I'd heard Tom's name so many times from so many people that I respect.

And then when we got to be buds, it was it was just great. So yeah. No. I'm really thankful that, that I can call him a friend.

Steve: Yeah. So you got the flipping company and the construction company.

Chris: Right.

Steve: Right? So what talk let's talk about your flipping company right now.

Chris: Okay.

Steve: What what what kind of volume? What are you guys doing?

Chris: You know, I don't do tons and tons. I'll probably do, like, one or two a month Yeah. Flip flip wise, just because it's not, like, my main thing. I it was it was interesting. A number of years ago, I love Shark Tank, and I remember hearing Chris Sacca talk about he's like, I just don't like cash intensive businesses.

And I started thinking about it a lot, and flipping is so cash intensive that

Steve: It's massively cash intensive, and it's really easy to just overextend yourself without even knowing Oh, yeah. Without even realizing it.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And that also reminds me, I do a little bit of hard money lending as well. So I guess that's that's 11. Right? Alright. So I'm I'm finding orphan businesses.

Alright. But, yeah. So so it's just so cash intensive that I just don't like being in it, that much. You know? I, so I'll do a couple here and there.

And and since I do most of it in cash in the DC area, I mean, almost everything you're buying, like, minimum $300. You know? So three it's like like the average one I'm doing, like, it's anywhere from 3 to 600,000. So if you have a couple of those out with cash, it ends up being just it it's just a lot of cash out plus refit rehab and all the other fees and everything else. So so, yeah, that's my my thought on fix and flip.

Steve: And then what about the construction business?

Chris: Construction business. So that one, we actually so the DC area, we do tons of condo conversions. So we're buying a place for, like, somewhere between 6 and 900,000. We're putting in, like, 400,000 to make one row home into two or three condos, and then we're reselling all each of those for, like, nine to one to one point one million. So, like, it's a really, really cash intensive deal.

And so we do a couple of those ourselves, and we do, and and at the same time, we work for investors just doing cash, like a cost plus thing. So, it usually usually looking at fourteen to sixteen months to do a condo conversion. They're very profitable, but they're just cash intensive and long. So we'll usually do a a cost plus where we'll we'll do the cost of the the transaction plus, I think, is usually we we charge for a full kind of conversions, like, a 110,000.

Steve: Wow. Gotcha. For a fourteen month project, you charge a 110,000?

Chris: Yep.

Steve: Wow. Okay. That seems, nice. It's

Chris: it's good. I mean, if you if you've ever dealt with the DC government, you'd probably think it was less nice.

Steve: Well, I mean, no. I'm saying, like, I I would expected more. I I I would expected to charge more for a fourteen month project dealing with bureaucracy, dealing with the contractors, dealing with subs. Yeah. I I thought it would have been higher.

Chris: Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. So you got, obviously, some fans here. Ryan Zimmerman says you're the man. Go giver. Makes time for people.

Jeff Madiger and Kevin Hanson said you're a real real good dude.

Chris: You're good.

Steve: So Kristen Myers wants to know, what is it that you're saying when you're door knocking? I mean, you're not doing this so much right now, but if you were, what would you be saying?

Chris: Yeah. If I went back if if I had to go back and do it today, I just say, like, I I know a lot of people said, don't don't bring up the foreclosure. Don't whatever. You know, it's the elephant in the room. I I just said, hey.

I came across your house. The it's selling on the, on the fifteenth. Do you have a plan? And everybody's like, yeah. I got a plan.

You know? And some people would say, you know, that I can, you know, stick my head somewhere. You know? Like like, all this other stuff. But, but I said, do you have a plan?

And and and then they they most people would say, yeah. I got a plan. And then I say, well, what happens what's your plan b if it doesn't work out? And that's when when you'd usually have a great conversation. Yeah.

So that was that was literally my script is do you have a plan? It's it says it's selling on the fifteenth. Do you have a plan for it? And then they, like, would be caught off guard because they're shocked that I know their stuff. And what is in how do you know my personal information, like, all the other stuff?

And and literally, if I had a picture of it or I brought the newspaper or whatever, and I show them, and then they would, and again, that was a long time ago, so probably show on my phone now. Right? Yeah. But, but then when they see that it's public information that that that's out there, then they would say, okay. And then then, yes, what their plan b is.

And then that's that's when they're like, well, I don't really have one. And then that's that's when they open it up. And I know you teach sales. Right? Like, if if you ask the right questions, everybody will tell you how to sell them.

Right? And so you're just asking the question, get them to open up because they have a plan. Everybody thinks they have a plan. Right? You know, just like Mike Tyson, everybody has a plan till they get punched in the face.

Right?

Steve: Right.

Chris: So, they think they've got a plan, and then but what happens if that doesn't work out? And then if you're giving them a safety net, then all of a sudden, they're like, well, actually, your plan might sound a little bit better than mine.

Steve: Yeah. I love that. And I wish I had that. You know, when I was door knocking back in 2008, I mean, I would show them, like, you know, like, hey. I'm I'm knocking on this door because your house is going for closure on this date.

And they're like, that's not happening. That's not my house. That's that's not me. And it's like, okay. That's weird.

But, like, they will lie to your face.

Chris: Right. Right.

Steve: Because I was a lousy salesperson. I was just like, like, what do you mean? I'm not going for, like, it was right here. So it was just it was very uncomfortable. And so, let's see.

Guys, please ask your questions for your to answer. You know, Chris is obviously totally a huge go giver, so please, ask away. Option b is Scott. He wants to know, what was the book about, happiness?

Chris: Delivering Happiness by, well, what's his name? He just passed away. The the Zappos guy.

Steve: Yeah. I can't think of it at the moment.

Chris: Tony Tony.

Steve: Tony Shay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was so good.

You know, it was just reading that book, it was kinda funny. Like, I felt like I was reading a biography, you know, like, talking about what he was doing as a kid to hustle as you know, he was an entrepreneur before he even knew it, and that was definitely me. I mean, it's going back some of the days selling candy and getting in trouble with school. That's awesome. Yeah.

So then what's your next business?

Chris: Well, I mean, the main thing that I'm I'm really enjoying right now is helping people with REI revive, helping people monetize their their leads. So, that's really where I'm I'm spending most of my my time thinking about everything right now just because, and I I love helping people helping people win. Like, it's it's like one of the greatest things ever. I'm I'm in a point in my life where, you know, I'm very close to kinda paying off most of my life. And so at that point, I can live the rest of my life just, you know, live live and and create the legacy you wanna let leave.

Right? And so my legacy is I've I've helped people, succeed, helped people accomplish their goals, helped people, you know, become the a man or woman they wanna become. I mean, what's better than that? Right?

Steve: Right. So just going back to that just a moment. You know? Like, let's say I'm this wholesaler. Right?

And I've got, I've been doing this for eight months. I'm frustrated, and I got all these dead leads. Right. What's the so getting a license was the first thing. Yeah.

What do I do after I get licensed?

Chris: Yeah. So either get licensed or or get somebody in your organization that's licensed, and it's really not that hard to do. And then, so there there's a handful of things. So one is once you have that person, you you can send a text to all your dead leads. Here here's my favorite text.

Hey, Steve. Yeah. Whoever it is, like, like, put it in your CRM, send the mass tax. Hey. Are you still looking to sell your property if you got the right price for it?

I'll tell you what. There was a, a wholesaler that that sent us a ton of leads. We sent a mass tax to 800 leads, set 29 appointments from that text. Yeah. It's the easiest text ever.

Everybody overthinks it. Don't overthink it. But do it right. You know? Are you still willing are you still thinking about selling your property if you got the right price for it?

Steve: Right. Okay. So then they're like, yes. Someone in your organization calls them, books the appointment, tells the tells the realtor, hey, be here at this time. Right.

Right. That simple.

Chris: Yeah. Or you know? And and once you're working with the agent, you know, you set up the whole system for the agent to come in and and, you know, where where it's it's on you're booking on the calendar, everything else. You know, you the other key things, like, you don't wanna tell people that you don't wanna say it's a realtor. Right?

Like, second you say it's a realtor. Everybody's brother's uncle is a realtor. Right? You say agent, realtor, they're like, nope. About 50% of the deals that we close would never have gotten in the door if we said realtor.

But but you gotta make sure that you're not baiting the switching. Right? Mhmm. Because if you go in, you need to be able to offer the cash offer as an agent. Right?

And and if if any wholesaler sends an agent, they should be able to give a cash offer. Right? They already have prequalified that they're not likely to take that cash offer, but it's not a bait and switch. You're not going and then breaking up in the listing presentation. That's the other thing, is we gotta understand that everybody that calls an investor called an investor because usually, I'm sure there's somebody's gonna tell me at some point one of the others other than the five, but usually, people don't wanna pay a commission.

Right? They they think their house is too jacked up to sell in the MLS. They, maybe they're a hoarder and they don't want their neighbors to see. You know, they they have to sell fast because a job move or a, you know, foreclosure is coming, or, they don't want people coming through their house at all different times. So if you have and and that's the scripting, right, the script and dialogues so the agents can walk in and answer those questions.

And if they can go in and answer those questions right, then they can I mean, you literally are a tiger playing with hamsters? Right? Like, that is it. If you know that these are the questions that they have, these are the things, and you can answer it, They all think they need to sell to an investor, but if you can answer their questions in a way that solves their problems, then that is how you, that's how you win and that's how you close massive amounts of deals. And that's why most people that have everybody's tried it.

Anybody that's generated many leads has tried doing this, but I'll tell you, my guess is they probably don't make very much money on it.

Steve: No, they don't.

Chris: But when you understand that every single person came in a certain way, you're looking for a specific type of agent, the agent needs to know their scripting, you need to actually just follow the process, know, and everybody could figure it out, but that's Right. That's the whole that's the re I mean, heck, I spend I spend over 6 I spend over 6 figures a year on coaching and mentorship because I believe that in this business, speed is everything. I can figure just about anything out if you give me enough time, but I'll tell you what, I'll pay to learn how to do it in a couple days, you know, because I'm gonna make so much more money than I ever paid for anything.

Steve: Absolutely. The ROI on on personal invest investing in your personal development is is the number that you can't top that anywhere else.

Chris: So Ryan

Steve: wants to know, in that growth mode when you were stressed out, what was the turning point, and how did you know we had built something that had a potential for sustainability?

Chris: And and which part? The, are we talking the, the time when I had that massive debt, or is this

Steve: I'm gonna guess. I mean, that's probably when you're the most stressed out.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. When I had that that massive debt Oh, well, I'll tell you. There is an old cheesy YouTube video. I'll tell you, everybody should go check this out.

It's Art Williams' Just Do It. It's eighteen minutes from the the eighties. It is so cheesy, but I'll tell you what. I literally did not know what I was gonna do. And a friend of mine sent me that Oh,

Steve: that time?

Chris: Yeah. Told me about that video because I mean, I was like, I mean, I literally did like, it was my back was against the wall. And I still remember watching it, and I was like, holy crap. But, like, there's one side of it where he's like, he's like, he's like, just do it. Just do it.

Just do it. He's like, he's like, but I need to sell my house, but houses aren't selling hard. And he's like, do it anyway. And I was like, okay. I'm gonna do it anyway.

I'm just gonna do it. And I I remember watching it, and then I called my wife over and watched it. And I was like, Catherine, like, we're either gonna go bankrupt or we're gonna do it. And, and literally, we got down on our knees. We prayed and just said, God, help us help us accomplish this.

And I literally got up a new man, and I just said, okay. I'm gonna make money. And literally, that was like, I mean, with the retail business, I'm just like, I gotta make money fast. I gotta figure out how to get these properties off my you know? Like, so that was that was it.

But that video literally was life changing for me, and and and it just fits. Like, everybody wants to think about it and, you know, they use, like, you know, research as procrastination. Right? But just go do it. That's it.

Steve: Yeah. It's Art Williams. Right?

Chris: Art Williams.

Steve: Yeah. It was one of the best videos I saw a long time ago. It was and it's about it was they're studying successful insurance salespeople.

Chris: I think

Steve: that's all it was. Like, what's the difference between the most successful insurance salespeople and everybody else? They just do

Chris: it. Exactly. They just do it.

Steve: Yeah. So, I think one challenge I see a lot is, you know, I I I started off on the realtor side. Well, it started off, you know, Rich Advertiser. I started off on the investor side, and then I was like, oh, I should just go on the realtor side. And then we got into the flipping side, and then we got the, wholesaling.

How much time when you're going through this, right, knowing how much you made as a flipper and going through all this, how much patience did you have working with regular buyers and sellers?

Chris: So buyers were really tough as a high d. Like, I I have the I personality, so I can be empathetic. But as a high d, when you walk into a house and you're like, this fits all your boxes, and they're like, I'm not sure. And I'm like, it fits all your boxes. Are you kidding me?

Let's let's do this. Let's let's write an offer. I'm gonna I'll call my assistant. We'll have the offer ready before we leave the house. And, so that was that was really tough.

But, and that was part of that was So the first thing that I did was hire an assistant to take care of paperwork because, oh, man, I lawsuits waiting to happen if I didn't, because there's no way that I'm dotting i's and crossing t's. Right? The second thing I did was hire somebody to to work with buyers because, like, the high I personality that are so good with with buyers just relating with people and a little less of the d, like, in your face, like, do it, you know, kinda thing. And so that was one of the the next things that I did. And and it was interesting.

As I started scaling my business, I had these these six books five books, but then I've added six that, like, became my bible. And one of the the great and, again, another thing from Gary Keller. He says your business earns the right to build out its org chart, right, and lead with revenue. And so I started studying these books and looking at it, and I'm like, okay. What are the things that I can get other people to do and probably do better than I can?

So, like, with with listings, I'll tell you, I'm a pretty good salesperson. Like, I will probably outperform just about any other listing agent on the first go round Mhmm. But I'm not gonna follow-up well. Like, I'm just not gonna follow-up. So so they're actually gonna close more than I will because they're gonna follow-up better than I do.

Mhmm. And, and so I was just like, let's let's teach other people to do this, and people that will actually follow-up and actually do what they need

Steve: to do. Process. Yeah. I totally can can, sympathize with this because that was definitely me. And, you know, transitioning, I was an engineer right before I got into real estate.

Chris: Okay. And

Steve: it was the same thing. It's like, you told me you wanted a, b, c, d, and e. This house has a, b, c, d, and e. What it is that you need to think about? And I was it was just not a good conversation.

Chris: Bro, I get it. I get it.

Steve: So Victor Reeves wants to know, what is your response then? Owner says we don't own that house or we're fine. It's been taken care of. We're just overall in denial. How are you dealing with that knowing that they've got their public foreclosure coming in?

Chris: Right. So what I've learned is great salespeople ask great questions. Right? So I just ask ask you know, if if they say, oh, we got it taken care of, you know, it is kind of a pushy question. It's just just first, they say, well, what's your plan b?

And if they say, oh, we got it taken care of, would you mind if I ask real quick what, you know, if if we're role playing here, I'd say, do you mind if I ask real quick what's the plan? Because I've helped a lot of people, and I'd be happy to, to give you a couple thoughts that's that's worked for some other people. And, and then oftentimes, people will will listen. It's like if a lawyer says, I'll give you free advice. You know, then people are like, well, I'm not gonna pay 250.

Okay. I'll take it. So you're you're just offering again, I I think that everything, if you lead with value, that you tend to, that you tend to win. So if you're offering some sort of value to them where you're not asking for for them to sign with you, just say, hey. Well, can I can I give you some value here?

Then people are willing to to listen. If they say it's not my house, I would, you know, I just you know, what is it? You you go three deep. Like, why do you think it says this in the newspaper? Like, this that's that's crazy.

Do you could it be possible that the bank is, is gonna be moving, like, foreclosure stuff on you with without you knowing about it? And, like, like, so so I just start asking questions to get them to to respond. Because because at first I mean, just think about yourself. You know, there was a I went to a wedding, and, we went to the wedding, and I ended up, like, busting the back of the jacket. And we were so far from our house, so I'm like, where can I get a I gotta get a jacket?

So I went into to a mall, like, the closest mall, and I I'll never forget. I walked into it was like a JCPenney or Macy's or something like that, whatever the department store was that was right there, and the person came up and said, hey, can I help you? And I was like, no, I'm just looking. I wasn't just looking. I was gonna buy a jacket.

Right? But, but that's the whole thing. Everybody is always like, they just put you off. Mhmm. I'm I'm just looking.

I'm just looking. Until they they well, is there and actually the salesperson was great, and and I I I stuck this in some of my training stuff. They're like, well, can I I point you to the right direction? What are you looking for? I'd be happy to point you in the right direction.

And I'm like, well, I need to get a suit jacket. Are you looking to buy one too? And I was like, I mean, I literally was going to a wedding, right? I had to get a jacket to her. So I was a distressed seller or a distressed buyer.

Steve: You were motivated.

Chris: Yeah. I was motivated.

Steve: Yeah. And And I think that's a great point. And I I think the the disarming component is something that is great. You disarm by, asking the questions that shows that you're not pushing. Right?

Chris: Right.

Steve: And so I I I love the, you know, like, there's a bank note, like, they're foreclosing the right person. Like, that's a huge deal. Especially, I mean, not then, but later on, right, when the foreclosure crisis got way worse, as an REO agent, you're seeing, like, the banks are changing locks in the wrong houses because, like, the the contractor they hired to rekey the house is rekeying the wrong house. But as far as rekeying the wrong house, they're trashing out the wrong house. Oh, man.

Like, you read these things. Like so at that point, then that's a real question. Like, does the bank know they're foreclosing on the

Chris: right house?

Steve: Like, we gotta stop this. We gotta work together.

Chris: I love that.

Steve: Alright. So, Kevin Hanson wants to know, how are you balancing your drive for success in real estate and your desire to lead a home and have your marriage and family be a top priority?

Chris: No. That's a that's a great question. I'll tell you. So, again, I had a mentor of mine who had sold a bunch of a bunch of businesses, and I I went and met with him. He was he was an elder in our church and just serial entrepreneur.

And I remember I always I was just I'm always wanting to move, and this was one of the biggest, shifts, like like, tectonic shift in my mind. I I asked him like, there's a verse in the Bible. It says, godliness plus contentment is great gain. And I'm like I'm like, I just feel like my butt's always burning. Like, I'm not I'm not like, the contentment piece isn't there.

And I said, Tom, tell me, how do you handle being an entrepreneur and and a very successful one? Because I know that you're just always burning. Right? You're always, like, wanting to to grow. How do you handle that?

And he's like, well, Chris, here was the biggest thing that I learned. It used to be that the grass was always greener on the other side. He's like, I came to a place of maturity where I realized that you can be content if you know that you haven't yet arrived. You've just gotta be at a place where you can enjoy the journey. Mhmm.

Right? And so that, to me, was one of the biggest shifts in my life was to understand that you can enjoy the journey. And so when you when you back off from that when when you you're saying, okay. I need to enjoy the journey. When you start enjoying the journey, then some of the blinders come off a little bit so that you can kinda open up your goals to, to a bigger area.

Right? Like my family, my my kids, my, my friends, all of that, as well as work. And you can enjoy that journey together because the way that I'm built, it's hard for me to to take the blinders off of, like, that one goal, like, build this bigger, make it better, you know, all the other stuff. And so but I'm like, man, we're doing it. It's not perfect, but I'm really enjoying this.

It there's a little bit of an edge that comes off that we're able to kinda enjoy the other things that are also just as I mean, more important. Let's let's be honest. Not just. More important Mhmm. Than making a few extra bucks or building something out there.

There. Well, and I

Steve: think that's a great point. More important because a lot of people you ask them what's your why? They're like, it's my family. It's like, is it really, though? Yeah.

Because we'll spend more time working on our business, but we don't spend that much time working on our family. So I think that's a great point is that slowing down and thinking about what's actually more important.

Chris: Right. Right? And and

Steve: I think we're all we're all guilty of it as entrepreneurs. Very few actually get into the business and spend more time with their family or have more free time so they can spend with their family and then use that for more free time Right. To spend time.

Chris: Well, yeah. One of my buddies that that that was exactly what I said because he always talks about like, he he has a coaching business for real estate teams, and he's like he's like, I I spend no time on my on on my business so that I can have all the other stuff. And then we were hanging out, and he's like, he's like, yeah. But my problem is that I'm always, like, just taking that time and spending it on building a new business. And I'm like, yeah.

That's it. Yeah.

Steve: I remember one one time my wife was saying, like and this was, like, in October, you know, one year. And she's like, we're talking about something, and she's like and she's like, I need you to make me promise. Like, what? I said, there's promise between now and end of the year. You won't start any more businesses.

What is your superpower?

Chris: I it's interesting. I I've I've got a big sign in my office that says, are you in your genius zone? And every time I'm doing anything, I try to think to myself, is this my genius zone? And I boiled it down to four, but there's one that I think stands out. So one, creative problem solving.

I think that that's it's funny. My brother and my dad loved puzzles, but I always hated puzzles as a kid. Now I realize, like, all I do all day is solve puzzles. Right? So creative problem solving, strategic relationships, I think that I'm you know, as a high I, I love hanging with with people, high high level thinkers, and the more high level thinkers you hang in with, the the bigger you can build your life.

There's a a a quote that I really love, sir. Arthur Conan Doyle. Mediocrity knows nothing greater than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. And And so when you hang with people that you know have that level of genius, like, it's just awesome. So strategic relationships, pitching vision to people, like, I think that's one of the reasons why my my organizations grow is because I'm I think I'm really good at helping people see the vision, see that that they could be so much more than they even think they they themselves could be.

Mhmm. And so, like, pitching vision and helping people understand how to build a legacy. And then, the last one, and this one, I think, is the one that stands out above all else. I've I just was born with, like, extra energy, which I'm sure you probably can't tell.

Steve: I've noticed. I've noticed. I think you, Brent Daniels, Cody Holthein. Yes. You guys are just your energy is just another another level.

You got another gear. Luis Garcia wants to know what other real estate channel do you listen to besides, obviously, real estate disruptors?

Chris: Oh, yeah. No. This is a this is a great one. So I listen to oh, man. I listen to a bunch of different ones.

I, so, actually, when I was trying to, scale back a lot of the stuff that I was doing, one of my some of you do you know a guy named Gary Boomershine by any chance?

Steve: Of course.

Chris: Yeah. Gary Gary's a good buddy of mine, and I just remember hearing his story about going from working one hundred and ten hours a week, fifty pounds overweight, to being able to, like, really learn how to push that off. So I I even though he's a good buddy of mine and we talked a lot, I I started listening to a lot of his podcasts, just because, for me, learning how to scale, I think, learning how to to leverage at a high level is is really, really huge. Dang, my phone's in my other room. I I've got I've got so many different ones that I I listen to.

So Craig Groeschel's Leadership Podcast is probably my favorite leadership podcast. Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, love that. Real Estate Wise, dang, I I just jump around on on all the different real estate ones.

Steve: Yeah. Plug yourself, though.

Chris: Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Uncommon real estate. Yes. The average the average podcast listener listens to seven podcasts.

I would love to be one. So mine is for the agent investor. Like, that's that's the whole thing. So we talk about retail, and we talk investor. So the agent investor, Uncommon Real Estate.

Thanks. I thanks for the plug. Yeah.

Steve: And then, on Instagram, Pat wants to know, you said you got these handful of books. So what what are the list of those books?

Chris: Oh, yeah. So, the E Myth, which is huge. I love the E Myth. Traction, EOS traction. Make sure it's EOS traction.

I got I heard so many people talk about traction. I got the wrong one on Audible, and I'm like, this book isn't great.

Steve: What the heck?

Chris: And then I got EUS traction. I was like, ah, now I see it. The twelve week year, Clockwork, which was written by the same guy that wrote Profit First, and I'll give one little piece on Clockwork because this was life changing for me. He said take a buy a sticky pad, write down everything you do for two weeks, and put it on a wall, and then at the end of two weeks, start looking at the things that are not at your pay grade, way below your pay grade, put them somewhere else, and then hire somebody to take that over. So EOS Traction, Who Not How, and, the book Scrum, How to Do Twice as Much in Half the Time.

Steve: Yeah. So I just did a video. I don't think it's been, published yet, so I wanna have a debate.

Chris: Alright. Let's do it.

Steve: One you said was E Myth. Yes. So I have made the argument. It was, Lauren Hardy and I, because she was just talking about how much she loved. I was like, I don't feel the same.

So, remember in school when we were, like, in first and second grade, and we talked about how Christopher Columbus sailed, was it, sailed the ocean wide? Blue. Right? Yeah. Sailed the ocean wide, discovered America, and all these great things.

And then we had holidays about Christopher Columbus. Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Steve: And then we go to high school and college, like, this guy was a masquerist. Like, he was a murderer. They were raping and pillaging. Not the same color that we got in first and second grade. And so the e myth, we read it initially.

It's like, oh, yeah. So we could just build a business based on systems and processes. We can just put anybody in there. Right? I mean, that's kind of the the premise of it.

And then as you build these small businesses, you realize you can't just hire anybody and everybody to fulfill systems and procedures. We need rock stars. We need guys that are high level that can solve problems. Right? We have to pay them more.

Chris: Right. Right. Right. Right.

Steve: But we're not hiring pimple faced teenagers. We're hiring superstars that are self sufficient, are resourceful, and can solve problems on their own, which is not what he talks about in the E Myth. E Myth is like a system process that is, independent of the people that you hire. What are your thoughts on that?

Chris: So I've got a couple thoughts. You you mentioned pimple faced teenagers because you probably think I'll go right to the McDonald's thing. Right? Build a billion dollar business with, with 16 year olds that, don't have a high school degree. Right?

And if they were all to each one of them were to figure out how to make the best number one, I get it. You couldn't go to Japan and get the number one and also one in in, you know, California. So I do think that there is something there, to the fact that if the system is right, you can plug people in. The other piece that comes from Who Not How, right,

Steve: is Which is where I'm arguing is more relevant

Chris: Right.

Steve: In your business.

Chris: Right. Well, I do believe that, as you know, and again, another book that's great is is top top grading where it's like, you know, if you if you're in a runner's group, if you get somebody that's 51% better, then their group just speeds up, and the slower people have to drop off or speed up. Right?

Steve: Right.

Chris: So I do believe that hiring rock stars is is the key, but I don't know that it's a both and. And actually, again, man, I feel like I'm giving, like, Gary so much love right now, but this is this is one of the things it talks about in that book, in in The Millionaire Real Estate Agent, is that there's cul de sac talent and there's capacity talent.

Steve: Right.

Chris: And I think that there's there's a need for both. And for most I think for for a lot of systems and processes, you can put in cul de sac talent, which is they're they're they can do their job, right? And a lot of us will get Highly competent, not superstars. Right. Right.

And and I've got a number of of VAs in The Philippines that, that do that, and then a couple that stand out, and then we put them in we give them much much better roles. But a lot of times, it's it's harder when English isn't their first language, they're overseas, their Internet doesn't work as well. And so we put them in, and, you know, some of them will just get their job done, but then some of them will stand out, and we give them much, much bigger roles because they're just they're just awesome. And then I've I've also had some folks here that, you know, they they're in and they don't do their job well. But so anyway, I'm I'm probably arguing out of both sides of my mouth right now.

Steve: And there's nothing wrong with that. I I just I just wanted to put that out there. Right? It's just, the e myth is I I I think is when I first read it, I was like, oh my god. This thing is amazing, and I need to change my business to build around it.

And I just think it's kinda like it's a it's a it's a stepping stone along the way to who, not how, and

Chris: Right. Well, yeah. I I mean, I think that's a good a good way to phrase it, a good way to point it because, I mean, without the systems and processes, which, let's be honest, not many entrepreneurs you're an engineer, so you probably naturally think a little bit more in those lines than the average, you know, entrepreneur that probably I mean, you know, their their underwear drawer is not color coded. Let's just put it that way. And so, you know, being able to to relook at it and say, okay.

I don't need to be just and and again, like like when I got into trouble because I was good at finding deals, good at making it rain. I was not good at making the other stuff happen. And so being able to get those systems and processes are there, but I I think a 100%, you you'll only gonna grow to a certain level if you don't have some rock stars in your team.

Steve: Yep. Alright. So I want you to think about what you wanna leave the listeners with, while we make a couple of, quick announcements. Guys, if you get value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. It helps us.

It helps us reach more people, and it helps us achieve our goal of creating a 100 millionaires. We do have our two day workshop coming up. If you guys are interested, send me a DM on Instagram, and we'll, point you in the right direction. And next week, we've got Javier Hinojo. So, be sure to tune in next week, same time.

What last thoughts would you like to leave the listeners with?

Chris: Invest in yourself. Right? To win, it's activity and skill. Right? Do enough.

Even if you're really not good at talking to people, even if your skill is so low, if you talk to a thousand people a day, I promise you're gonna outperform the people that are really good and only talk to a couple people a day. Right? Activity and then skill. My my wife asked me this and this was one of the biggest leveling ups in my business. She's like, Chris, I've never seen anybody.

She's like I mean, she was Oxford educated. Right? Like, she's like, I've never seen anybody spend as much time in personal development as you spend in personal development. She's like, you're always teaching your team, but do they understand what you do to get there. Right?

And and at that point, that's when I started sharing the books I'm reading. That's when I started sharing how much time I spend in personal development, on my morning routine, all the other stuff, and I started seeing my team emulating that, started started investing in themselves rather than just taking, you know, at at meetings or or on like, whatever. They were getting on their own on podcasts. They were listening to, you know, YouTube channels. They were doing all this other stuff, and then they started leveling up, not just what I was giving them.

And so that was that was a massive change in my business. So I'll tell you guys, activity and skill is, like, the two huge things. Talk to enough people and then get good at what you're saying.

Steve: I love it. If someone wants to get a hold of you, how would they go about doing that?

Chris: So a couple of things. One, my my Instagram at kradrock, c r a d d r o c k. I've been, you know, people were so generous with me, like I said before. So if you DM me, I try to respond to every DM. It may not happen, like, in twenty four hours, but I've I've worked really hard to to do that because people did that to me.

So, again, I wanna give back. So that's that's one place. If you are a real estate agent or thought about being an agent and you are interested in the agent investor world, definitely my podcast, The Uncommon Real Estate podcast. And then, I'm with Wholesaling Inc, the REI Revive. If you want to monetize your dead leads, it's wholesalinginc.com/revive.

And, yeah, either me or somebody on the team will will chat with you about your business and see if there's a way that you can just monetize and make just crazy amounts of money, with the, leads that you're bringing in and are doing nothing with.

Steve: Awesome. Thank you very much.