Use Other People’s Money to Create Wealth

Steve Trang: Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. Today, we've got my good buddy, Sam Primm, with Faster Freedom. He flew from Saint Louis, Missouri to talk about how he built a $20,000,000 portfolio without using a single dollar of his own money. If this is your first time tuning in, I'm Steve Trang, sales trainer for some of the top wholesalers in the country, and I'm on a mission to create 100 millionaires.

Question I get all the time is how to become one of the 100 millionaires. The information on this podcast alone is enough to help you become a millionaire in the next five to seven years if you will take consistent action. If you wanna get there faster, please send me a DM on Instagram, and we'll see if we can help you get there. If you get value out of the show, please tag or film below, share this episode right now. That way we can all grow together.

And this is a live show, so please ask your questions for Sam to answer. You ready?

Sam Primm: Yeah. That was hard for me not

Steve: to interrupt you. You did good. Thank you. Thank you. Alright.

So first question is what got you into real estate?

Sam: So I had a, a full time job, out of school and and was making pretty good money, but I kinda looked ahead and it wasn't gonna be enough for me in general. I I wasn't gonna be able to create enough wealth. I kind of wanna make an impact and and be able to impact my family for generations, and it's impossible to do that, work for somebody else. And real estate was the the next best thing that I saw that creates wealth and creates millionaires, so I decided to get into it.

Steve: So you went to college? Yep. Graduated?

Sam: Yep. When did you graduate? 2011.

Steve: 2011. So you're a youngin'.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: You go and get your regular w two job like you're supposed to.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: Worked Worked your way up the corporate ladder?

Sam: Yep. Mhmm. That that's what I was taught. My dad worked for the same company for thirty eight years. That's kind of the thing I was gonna do.

Right? That's what you're supposed to do.

Steve: Your dad worked for Caterpillar?

Sam: He did not. He worked for Boeing, actually.

Steve: He worked for Boeing. Alright. So but, oh, you're supposed to work at one company forever?

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: Got it. Okay. So you work there. You work your way up in sales and

Sam: Yep.

Steve: What were you doing at Caterpillar?

Sam: Yeah. So I started out selling construction equipment, just selling, and then did pretty well and then got moved up to sales manager. So I was kind of in charge of the Western Region Of Missouri. So I had 15 sales guys, underneath me that were, you know Yeah.

Steve: Four fifteen sales guys working underneath you.

Sam: I hung all 45 to, like, 55, all all a lot older than me. I was 25 at the time.

Steve: How was that dynamic?

Sam: It was pretty good because I've you know, what not a micromanager and just, you know, if they do their job, I'll you know, you kinda office every day. Just kinda slowly went and visited them and kinda helped them where I could, help them get support from Caterpillar, you know, kinda just almost a liaison, just helping them do their thing. I'm not gonna tell them how to sell. They've been selling longer than I had.

Steve: But there must have been something that management saw in you put a younger person in charge of all these much older folks, people that are old enough to be your dad.

Sam: Yeah. No. They yeah. They were. I just had done pretty well in you know, I had I had the degree that helped.

I had a master's degree, and then I was doing pretty well in the sales. You know, I took my territory when I took over was, like, 3 or 4,000,000, and then I was doing, like, 10 or 12,000,000 a year. So I, like, you know, doubled or quadrupled sales. And then, you know, they could tell by all our systems and everything that I was organized and, you know, kind of little bit more organized as a sales guys as opposed to some good sales guys, right, are all over the place. You know better than I do.

And organization Notes are for suckers. Yeah. And and keeping yeah. Exactly. So the fact that I kinda did all that, I think they were like, well, he can, you know, be organized organized enough to to manage them.

Steve: So What was your master's degree in?

Sam: Just MBA with emphasis in marketing. So

Steve: Alright. So you're moving up. You're doing really well. How long did you stay at Caterpillar?

Sam: From 2011 to 2018, so seven years. Seven years? Mhmm.

Steve: Man, it wasn't even that long ago that you quit.

Sam: In 2018. Yep. Correct. Okay.

Steve: So I think it was really interesting here, and I really wanna emphasize this. How much did you make when you quit? How much were you making a year when you quit?

Sam: $500,000. Mhmm.

Steve: What was going through your mind to say that this is not enough to create wealth?

Sam: Because I kinda, like, just did the simple math in my head. You know, I was actually was making a couple 100,000 at a a year at 25. So I worked till I'm 55, retire early. I'll have, you know, several million in a four zero one k or an IRA, and then I'll have a good retirement. And then my daughter, I'll she'll get 2 or 3,000,000 when I, you know, move on.

But that wasn't, like, enough for me. I wanted to do more. Like, I wanna own a 100,000,000, and I'm gonna own a 100,000,000 in real estate in the next five years. And I'm going to make five, ten times that, you know, and just keep doubling, doubling, doubling. So I just I don't know what the word is, but I just wanted more.

I wanted to create a bigger impact. And even making a lot of money working for a good company like Caterpillar, at, you know, the job that you like just doesn't do it. It just simply doesn't do it.

Steve: What gave you the confidence that you can do better in 02/50000 a year?

Sam: Stupidity, probably. Ignorance, vanity? I don't know. Probably just you know, I've been investing in real estate for the past three or four years before that, so I had started already doing it. We Okay.

So you're down that road? Yeah. I was already down that road. Me and my business partner, Lucas, we had probably 25 rentals, and we had, you know, done probably 10 wholesales and done, you know, probably 30 flips. So I had experience and knew the possibilities, and then that was all on the side.

So what, you know, what would happen if I focused an entire day on growing real estate? So you had something to, not necessarily parlay, but kinda evaluate your decision. Correct. It was kinda strategic at the right time. We had a couple wholesales in escrow.

We had, you know, a couple flips getting ready to go. So it was it was kind of the right time to do it and make that leap because that was eventually what I wanted to do. It was sooner than I thought, but it was the right time. I don't I don't suggest people quitting their job and just going full full at it. You know?

Yeah.

Steve: Because I'm thinking right now, timeline, because your daughter is, like, five.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: So you already had you're already married

Sam: and a child when you quit. Yeah. She was, I guess, like, one and a half or two. Yeah. Yeah.

And I just put in a pool. Like, all this like, it wasn't the most ideal time in my life, but it was the most ideal time in my life.

Steve: So who was in your ear trying to tell you, like, Sam, what are you thinking? I mean,

Sam: a lot of people. I mean, a lot of people. You know, my friends and family knew the job I had, and they were, you know, all of that mindset of, you have an incredible job. Don't screw this up. You're set up.

That was I was the vice president. I was who I reported to a sales, and, like, that was kinda where they were pigeonholing me to go. But just going to that office all day every day for, you know, eight, ten hours a day just wasn't fun for me. I was making the company. I think the the profit the companies make was probably 7 or 8,000,000, and I was bringing home, you know, a good chunk of it, but wasn't, you know, wasn't wasn't that enough.

Steve: The way I always describe that is kind of soul sucking.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: What were your parents saying?

Sam: They were as supportive as they could be. That would made them very uncomfortable because our our first private lender was a family friend, and that made them extremely uncomfortable and just mixing business and family and all that that that wasn't you know, they were they're extremely supportive parents, but mom's a teacher, dad's an engineer, like, the most prototypical, like, childhood you could have. Right? Happy, you know, everything. But that just it was definitely veered away from the path that they I think they envisioned for me.

They're supportive as they could be. I did hear my mom told me, like, a year after I I quit was my dad was he's gonna be living in our basement one of these days. So he he didn't tell me that, though. But, overall, yeah, I mean, they were supportive as they could be. So they they

Steve: could be supportive even though they didn't necessarily have full face.

Sam: I could tell they weren't very excited about it, but they they were supportive as they could be.

Steve: Yeah. And the only reason why I wanna push on this is because there are a lot of people with jobs, and they're like, you know, when's the right time to quit? Should I quit? I remember when I quit Intel, I had so many people saying, like, I wish I was in your position, but I can't quit my job because I have a wife and kids. And that's the reason why I can't do this.

Mhmm. Clearly, that was not what was going through your head.

Sam: No. And and, honestly, the the older, you know, people that worked at, you know, the the Faber Caterpillar I worked were, like, lucky. I wish I was twenty years younger and did what you did, and it was kind of people my age or younger that were, like, you're an idiot for quitting. But the older people, like, you don't wanna be doing this for the next thirty years. Like, I'm getting ready to retire and yeah.

Yeah. Get out. Yeah. So, yeah, it it was definitely risky. I think it it shocked a lot of people.

My my boss cried a little bit when I told him I was quitting. So I asked him, I said, do you play baseball? He said, not anymore. I said, can you hit a curveball? Because I got a curveball for you.

And then I told him, and they're just coming out.

Steve: Alright. So, you already had a track record. So then let's talk about your first real estate deal. Mhmm.

Sam: So first deal was just a a rental property. I didn't know about we're not I don't know if we need details. I didn't know about cash out refinance at the time, so I thought you had to put 20% down on every rental. So we borrowed money from a private lender to flip a house, and I was gonna take that profit and and put 20% down on a rental. So I kinda thought you had to flip a house, then a rental.

Flip a house, then a rental. But during the rehab process, learned, went to a local meetup and learned about, you know, the BRRRR method and 8% cash out refinances. And the property was a perfect rental, so we ended up just keeping it. And then think we did one that first year.

Steve: Fifty fifty with Lucas from day one?

Sam: Mhmm. Yep. Fifty fifty from day one still to this day. Yeah. So one property that first year, I think, and then maybe three the next year.

So, I mean, 99% of what I've done is really all been last three, four years. So we kinda started out slow then built momentum and quit at the right time.

Steve: How did you find that first deal?

Sam: It was, Lucas's mother-in-law was a real estate agent and just REO property. You know, it was a bank owned property. It was February, and they were they were out there a little bit. So we just probably looked at 30 properties and finally found that worked.

Steve: And you bought it deep enough that you can do the BRRR. Mhmm. Yep. For those listening, because we talk a lot about wholesale on on this channel. What is a BRRR?

Sam: So a BRRR is basically buying rental properties without putting any of your own money without have to put 20% down. So you basically back into the 20% down. You buy a discounted house. You rehab it. You get it rented.

Then you take it to a bank, and they'll give you a long term loan on a certain percentage of the value of the property. And if you bought it deep enough and rehabbed it, the value went up a lot, so there's enough equity in there for you to take a long term note out. The bank will literally hand you a cashier's check. It's like cash. I know that because I threw away cashier's check a while ago, and I did it.

And I had to pay, like, $2 in insurance to, like, get the bank to give me the money back. But, anyways, they literally hand you a cashier's check, and then you pay back whoever you borrowed the money from. But now you have a mortgage on it, but it's a mortgage at, you know, three and a half percent over twenty five years that is as manageable that the tenant can pay for.

Steve: And is it your primary focus is, doing BRS, or do you have other Yeah.

Sam: I mean, the prime the whole reason I'm even doing the flipping company, the education, all that stuff is to just continue to support my rental portfolio. That is the end goal for Luke's and I is, you know, it was a 100,000,000 when we retire. Now it's a 100,000,000 in the next five years. So just to grow that run of portfolio and obviously have other streams of income that help support that and support our active income.

Steve: And our active is predominantly build a portfolio, do we do whatever we gotta do to build a portfolio. Mhmm. And you guys are at 20,000,000 today.

Sam: Yep. 21, but 20 is fine. Close enough.

Steve: We're gonna go with 20.

Sam: 20 is perfect.

Steve: Okay. So what were some of the struggles in in this endeavor?

Sam: Yeah. I mean, there's been nothing like crazy. I remember a few situations where we'd lose money on the deal. We lost you know, when we each had full time jobs, thankfully, we lost, like, $30 on a couple deals, you know, but we, you know, flipped, I think, 15 houses in 2016, and couple of them we lost money on. I remember one of our very first deals, we bought a package of three houses, and the bank didn't finance them for enough.

So we had to sell one and take equity. So nothing major crazy happened. I think that's part of the benefit of having a partner that you work well with. You can kinda check each other. Nothing major.

No, like, huge struggles. Just, you know, little things here or there that just, you know, we've been able to push through.

Steve: Tell me about that deal that you lost 30 k on.

Sam: So yeah. So we're idiots. So it was it was at the house. The neighborhood was a a $200,000 neighborhood all day at the most. And we took this we bought this house at a bunch of foundation issues.

We got them fixed. We took pictures. We weren't hiding anything, but it looked ugly. We got lifetime warranties, so we decided to finish out the basement. So it was four bed, three bath upstairs, and we added two bedrooms and a bathroom and redid the whole basement and put, like, $50 in the basement.

And we listed it at $2.49 in a 200 neighborhood. And, you know, we had probably had, like, two fifteen, two twenty in it.

Steve: And That's a house in the neighborhood.

Sam: Yeah. By far. And we had, like, two or three offers at asking, and Mhmm. They fell through or the bank wouldn't fund it, and we ended up just, you know, selling it for, like, $2.20. So we beat the market, but we already it didn't matter.

We were into it too much. So just just not really paying attention to that kind of stuff.

Steve: Well, I think that's a valuable lesson, right, for people that are listening is that you don't ever wanna be the nicest house in the neighborhood. No. Yeah. And also, you know, like, you guys were able to survive that because you guys already had multiple transactions going on. But, you know, for someone that's listening right now, a $30,000 kick in the nuts

Sam: That hurts. Might be hard. A cup on.

Steve: Yeah. So, and then you got your partner is with Lucas. Mhmm. This is a friend from before real estate, or what's that situation?

Sam: Yeah. We were grew up together, kinda went to middle school together, played basketball together, played sports together, went to high school, went to college together, just kinda always friendly growing up. We had a few side hustles that we did throughout college. Like? Some well, I'll tell you one of them.

I can't tell you all of them, but one of them, like painting, exteriors of houses. You know, we painted fences and decks and houses in, in the summer during college and stuff like that.

Steve: I think we're past the statute of limitations. I think you could

Sam: Well, we there well, we we we try to be bookies for a little bit. It, it it worked a little bit, but I've yeah. We just we took bets from all our friends and kept in a sell sheet, and it it worked okay. I don't sorry, mom. I don't know if she knows that, but she's watching.

But it wasn't anything major operation, but I just remember we had, like, a a couple bad weekends in a row. We just text everybody. We're done. Even though if we're stuck with it. But yeah.

So we tried that. So we're always looking for an angle.

Steve: Always looking for the next hustle. Mhmm. Any major struggles? You know, any point where you felt like, crap, what are we doing, in your journey on on building your portfolio?

Sam: Yeah. At the beginning, that one I told you about. So we bought three houses. One of them was a great deal, and there was, like, two stinker houses that were, like, in in not very good areas. And we're just like, alright.

We got this really good one. And that one worked out pretty well. But those two houses, we took to the bank to do that refinance I talked about, and we were like this was, like, pretty early on. We were, like, $8 short on each. So in order to close, we had to come to the table with $16,000, and we didn't have it.

I literally remember texting Lucas, like, you know, because I had he had he was an engineer, did pretty well, but he let he wanted out of his job. Like, tomorrow, he hated his job. And I was, had a good job and liked it. And I was like, well, this was fun real estate thing, but we're gonna hang on, you know, this can't be doing this kind of stuff. And he ended up kind of talking me off the ledge.

And like I said, we ended up selling one kind of for break even and taking equity out of another property to to make it work. But I just remember being like, you know

Steve: Were you still employed at that one

Sam: at that time? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was that was early on.

Steve: So you bought a portfolio of three, and one was amazing, other two not so amazing.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: And that was enough for you, like, to get discouraged.

Sam: Well, because I still had kind of people chirping that, you know, what are you doing? You have this great job. Like, you're doing you're spending evenings and weekends and all your free time, you know, ten hours Saturday, ten hours Sunday. I didn't have a daughter yet. You know, my wife would come out with me and and do stuff sometimes, but was leaving her at home a lot to do it.

Like, what are you doing? Like, you know, all these people were telling me, you have this incredible job. You have this path in front of you. Why are

Steve: you wasting your time?

Sam: Why are you wasting your time doing this? So I kinda had that in the back of my mind, but I was was Luke's always been, like, the pusher to push through kind of thing, and I was at especially at that time, I was like, I don't know that I wanna keep going with this. And, you know, we talked, and he kinda convinced me that, yeah, let's we can make this work, you know, real estate. You have so many options to make things work and ended up, like I said, making it work and and kept going.

Steve: Got it. So has it been an easy path this whole time as far as the birds? I mean, with the exception of those two situations. Right? Like, this you you had this vision of doing a 100 or building a $100,000,000 portfolio.

Has it been pretty smooth and seamless along the way?

Sam: It really has been pretty smooth and seamless. We're fortunate enough from, like, 02/1415 to now, the market's been insane. So even if you don't really buy it exactly right, you know, if it's a four or five month rehab, it took longer than you thought. The the house went up 10% in value or 8%, whatever it was. So, yeah, it's really been pretty smooth because I feel like we're we're crazy.

We like to buy everything we can, but the numbers gotta make sense. Like, everything cash flows on paper to $250 a month. We're buying it, you know, less than market value minus repairs. So overall, our portfolio is really, really strong, and we haven't really had too many hiccups. I mean, we've we've pulled out a couple million in equity in the last, couple years, and that just kinda shows that we've been able to buy, you know, deep enough that banks will equity out and give us money.

So

Steve: Got it. Were there any surprises in in doing the birth? You know? Because you can read it in bigger pockets. You can see, you know, TikTok.

Sam: Tik yeah. TikTok. YouTube. Oh, yeah. We talked about it.

Steve: There's there's places to learn about all that, but was there anything that you learned in doing this that was not being discussed or maybe, like, you know, once you get behind the curtains, it's not as easy as they make it look?

Sam: Yeah. The I mean, the biggest thing is that property management part of it. Yeah. You know, just getting good tenants because that's you can screw it all up with a bad tenant. The most expensive part about owning a property is turnover, a 100%.

So if you have turnover, you know, I have to evict, you know, eight months in or you have turnover every year, you're you're not gonna cash flow because even if tenants take care of the property, there's deferred maintenance you need to take care of. You gotta clean it. You're not collecting rent when there's nobody in there. So, managing tenants and getting good tenants in, like, now our average tenant stays about four years. You know, our younger portfolio, but Wow.

Four years. Yeah. And then That's awesome. Brian, who you know, kind of our mentor, his average tenant is there for six years. So if once or twice a decade, you're doing a turn as opposed every year, and that all goes to, you know, screening good tenants because I'm like, alright.

I got a million other things going. Alright. That looks good. That looks good. Approve them.

You gotta call the old landlords. You have to, you know, do their you know, look in their bank statements and see their spending habits. You gotta check their credit. Yeah. All that kind of stuff that, you know, we weren't really doing at first.

Steve: And Sam's doing all that?

Sam: I was not I I was I was kinda given the final approval there for a while, but, obviously, not I haven't even looked at an app in four years now.

Steve: So Who's doing that for you?

Sam: Courtney, our our office manager does all that, of course. Yeah.

Steve: One thing that that a theory I've got Mhmm. Especially, you know, we're in Collective Genius together. Mhmm. So I got to hang out with Brian, Higgins, Alex Moses, Mark Dela Torre, Nathan Brooks, all these other guys that are just crushing it in the Midwest. Mhmm.

Sam: And

Steve: I've got this theory that because of BRRRR, it's a lot easier to create wealth in the Midwest than it is in Phoenix, LA, or some of these other higher priced areas.

Sam: What are your thoughts? A 100% agree. It's a lot easier to create wealth in the Midwest. I think it's easier to get rich in Arizona because you're getting $4,050,000 dollar wholesale left and right. Not you, just in general.

Maybe you. But, like, you know, our our average wholesale, I feel like we're very, very good companies, more like 15,000. So, you know, you're not getting rich as we'll call it as as much or not make as much active income. But where wealth is created is is long term with owning rental properties. So, yeah, I agree 100%.

Creating wealth is is very, very I'm gonna call easy, but it's a lot more easy in the Midwest because you guys just gotta you know, latch on to real estate. Properties go up in value, tenants pay the mortgage down, and you get cash flow. Like, that works out perfect in the Midwest. It's a cookie cutter for that. The laws are good.

You know, a lot of working class, you know, people in in Missouri, I think 71% of people own houses, so rentals are kind of at a premium because there's not as many of them. So, yeah, it's a it's a really good market. I 100% agree.

Steve: So in your opinion, you can get larger chunks of cash wholesaling, flipping in other markets in the Midwest because you can buy properties that you can keep. Mhmm. That's how we're generating wealth.

Sam: Yep. That to me, yeah, wealth is with rental properties and making a lot of active income is more the flips and wholesales, which you know out here is pretty good. Obviously, it crashes a little a little hard in the Midwest too. Right? You're getting a lot bigger waves on the coast in here.

Midwest is pretty steady. You get occasional dips, but but the house goes down 10% in a couple years. That'd be really, really bad as opposed out here. It's, what, every other Tuesday or something. No.

Not that bad.

Steve: But the depreciation also helps. Yeah. Can you can you explain for those that don't understand the advantages of depreciation? Depreciation?

Sam: Yeah. Yeah. So depreciation, basically, you know, is just you're just taking you're writing off a percentage of what the property's worth over time. So it's a beautiful thing with rentals because we make 2 to $300 a month per rental property, net net net cash, and we're able to write off 2 to $300 a month, you know, per property. So, basically, you're taking a percentage of what the property's worth, and you're able to write that off every single month and every single year so that if you're cash flowing a little bit, you're not paying any taxes on the cash flow.

So it's a good thing.

Steve: So you're basically as far as the IRS is concerned, you're not making money. You're at zero. But in reality, your cash balances are growing pretty healthily.

Sam: A 100%. Yep. And Yeah. Yep. And it's all I mean, you're just pushing it off to a future date, but it's still, you know, what what most people do.

Steve: And there's also that element of a cash out refi.

Sam: Mhmm. Yes. Pretty nice. Yeah. We

Steve: buy a good no deal.

Sam: Yeah. We I mean, and you can do your whole portfolio. So we've taken advantage of this this crazy market. Two months ago, we did a 1,400,000 cash out refinance. 1,400,000.0 tax free or tax deferred.

However, we're gonna look at pay zero taxes on our 2021 tax return because the market's gone up in value. Our tenants have paid our mortgage down, so we have millions in equity. Let's take a million and a half of that and pay off houses, which we did so we can have, you know, some security there, put some in the bank, and then pay off some lenders. So there's just so much value that goes into owning rental properties over a short or long period of time that, it's, my opinion, the only way to actually create long term wealth.

Steve: So you're able to pull out 1,400,000.0 in equity Mhmm. Put it basically in your pockets Mhmm. Without paying Uncle Sam

Sam: a dime. Not 1 dime. Yeah. That's beautiful. Power of real estate.

Yeah. I mean, so eventually down the line, like I said, you'll have to pay taxes on it or you can ten thirty one it or whatever it is. But the whole goal is I'm gonna hopefully make more money every single year. So if I'm kinda deferring taxes to it, if and when I do have to pay them, I'll be making more so it won't be as big of a hit kind of thing. So

Steve: Yeah. And I'm slowly learning. You know, this is a complete side point, but I'm slowly learning, like, the ultra wealthy don't have income. Right? They just wait for things to appreciate, take out loans.

A 100% right. Yeah. So it's incredible. So I'm obviously, you're aware. I'm I'm trying to do this in Oklahoma.

Mhmm. Right? So you're gonna take me under your wings. Right? And I wanna build out this $100,000,000 portfolio like you.

Sam: Let's go.

Steve: What's the first thing I do?

Sam: The first thing you do is I'm sure you're already kind of doing this, is you have to make local connections. So there there's two things that I think you have to do when you wanna get started. One is you have to make local connections, and it's, you know, virtual for you, which a lot of people invest virtually, especially on the West Coast. So there's no problem with that. But you have to get to know people in your market.

Everyone thinks they can do it on their own. You have to know people to buy houses from, sell houses to, contractors, lenders, all those people. So you have to get to know your local real estate investors either where you're investing, when you live, or where you're investing. So joining joining the Facebook groups, the meetups, all that stuff is a must. Like, you have to do that.

And then the other thing is, you know this, as good or bad an idea, you you need to get some kind of mentor. Like, why wouldn't you, you know, take the path of least resistance that somebody else has already laid out for you? Literally, don't do this, do this, don't do this, do this. Alright. You just save $40.

Like, why wouldn't you do that? You know? So just leaning on other people that have been there and then getting to know your local market, and you will be miles ahead of your competition.

Steve: Got it. So are you buying directly from sellers, or are you buying from your network

Sam: or both? Both. Yeah. So both. So, you know, as far as the rental properties, we're buying pretty much all of them from our flipping company.

But as far as our flipping company goes, you know, we talked earlier, I think we'll do about 230 houses this year. I think, like, a 130, 140 of them are gonna be from our network. No dollars in marketing spend.

Steve: 130 to 140 flips will come

Sam: from network. From $0 in marketing spend. And then the other 100 or so will come from marketing and direct to seller, like you mentioned.

Steve: So So about 60% is coming from people you know in your community, whether from Rias or, I guess, how are you connecting them?

Sam: Yeah. I mean, it's it's other wholesalers, that, you know, need somebody that has money to come because they're in a pinch or real estate agents. We have four full time buyers, and they spend they're supposed to be spending half their time out there meeting real estate agents, meeting other wholesalers, mold remediators, elder law attorneys. We buy five houses a year from a bowling alley owner. There's just so many different what?

Name's Ben. He's he owns, like, a small, like, you know, kind of, like, hole in the walls, a bad way. So it's a nice bowling alley, but a small bowling alley. Well, the bowling alley says Ben buys houses. Ben doesn't buy houses.

We buy houses. But when he drinks with the people in the league and, you know, you get to know if you're talking to somebody that knows a lot of people, an insurance agent, bowling alley owner that's, like, actively involved. Life happens to people. Like Yeah. Your parents have to move in assisted care facility.

Somebody passes away. Somebody gets foreclosed on. They talk, and he hears it. And he says, you know, see above the bowling alley. I'll come by.

And then he just calls us, and we go on the appointment with him. And we buy. We pay him $5, and we get the house where we need to. So it just there's just if you gotta open your eyes to get in contact with people that are in contact with a lot of different people, you just need to be there at the right time when usually, unfortunately, a situation happens where they have to sell their house quickly at a discount. But you're helping people out.

You know that you do wholesaling. Like, we have people crying at the closing table because they're so happy, hugging, giving us great reviews. It it's filling a need is buying these houses.

Steve: Absolutely. So so you're not the only player in Saint Louis. Mm-mm. In fact, I think there are multiple players doing what you're doing in Saint

Sam: Louis. Mhmm.

Steve: Why would a wholesaler sell it to you?

Sam: Well, there's you know, we don't get all of them either. So but the main the the biggest reason I think they do it is because our brand is pretty strong. You know, we're better business. We have a lot of really good Google reviews. We have systems to get, to get, you know, reviews after the fact.

We have the most, you know, five star Google reviews, and people look at that kind of stuff. People look at Better Business Bureau. They look at the reviews. We get talked about all the time that, you know, I looked at your reviews, and that's why I called you or that's why I went with you. And then, also, we have a a killer sales team that gets good training from this guy.

I mean, honestly, that you know, we're I would say maybe 60% of the time, we're the highest the highest offer, but the other 40%, we're not even the highest. We just understand what the pain point is, which is, you know, obviously, a lot of what you teach is solving that problem. Yeah. It could be, I have a bunch of stuff in my house that I don't wanna get out. Okay.

Just leave it there. What you know, whatever it may be. Or I wanna live in the house for two weeks after to get, you know, some stuff out. And, like, we're like, okay. You know, you sign this legal document saying you'll be out after two weeks.

All this eviction stuff aside, you'll be out after two weeks, and, legally, we can, you know, get them out. So just figuring out what the solution is and not just saying, like, here's the offer, see it kinda thing. So there's a lot that goes into that. Yeah.

Steve: A lot of connecting. So then I heard you say that direct to seller or buy from other wholesalers, you're buying it into your flipping company.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: What's your flipping company?

Sam: Flipping company's faster house. So that that's the company that, like, we talked that, you know, we're gonna do a couple 100 deals this year, wholesale majority of them, flip the other ones. And every rental that I add, Luke's and I add, we're buying from Faster House. So we're not getting them at at, you know, rock bottom prices. We're marking them up to whatever the reasonable amount is and then buying them from the company.

So it's kinda supporting our active income in that company as well as our long term vision.

Steve: So your source of deal, regardless of source, goes to the construction company, and construction, it gets paid its proper fee Mhmm. Like, they're making what they're supposed to make.

Sam: I mean, if anything, we pay more than the guys. We I mean, ask I'm not just saying ask ask the guys because I don't mind we're at a position in our company, in our business. I don't mind, you know, not burring out exactly if I have to come out of pocket a couple thousand bucks on the refinance. I feel like I'm gonna make a 150, 200,000 on that rental over the next twenty years. Yeah.

So I don't mind that as opposed to a lot of people on our team are growing rentals and doing that, and almost everybody on our team's growing rentals, by the way. We have over 500 over 500 doors on our team of people growing rental portfolio. So we

Steve: That's really cool.

Sam: We want those people to grow. They're running portfolios, but they're not always in that position. They need to get all their money back or would like to. So, yeah, we we pay we pay very fair prices, Steve.

Steve: Alright. So stay for the

Sam: owners doesn't mean we get a deal.

Steve: Well, but I think that's something that a lot of people overlook because they're like, well, it's my company. I don't have to pay it whole. But then if you don't, then that company is not profitable. Now you're having issues paying wages. So I love that you're paying your company its full rate or more to keep it sustained in having to worry and having this additional stress.

Sam: Well, yeah, that company's got, like, 25 employees, so we really want and definitely, that's the biggest one of the all the companies, so that's the one we wanna support.

Steve: And then you buy from them, at full full rate or what's

Sam: your Yeah. What it's discounted, but it's, you know, kind of up to that that max discount, you know, that up to that 80%.

Steve: What you can what you can pay.

Sam: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Steve: Now you said that there's 500 doors at your company besides you?

Sam: Yeah. Including Lucas and I.

Steve: Oh, including one sixty seven. So your team's got how many?

Sam: So Lucas and I have a 167. The other owner, you I think you know Brian of Faster House, he has, like, a 120. So the rest are owned by the team. So it is that couple hundred Two hundred. Do you have 20 something?

Steve: Your team has 200 Mhmm. Doors. Yep. And we talk about retention and culture. How has that helped you?

Sam: It's it's incredible. It's all about culture. That's that's the biggest thing about our companies that I feel is our biggest strength is the culture, and that's just the mindset of abundance, which I think we'll talk about later because I know what you're gonna ask me later. But, anyways, that having that mindset of abundance, oh, we're all trying to go rentals and a great deal comes across the pipeline. Right?

Mhmm. And we everybody wants it, but, you know, so there could be a few people, you know, that miss out on it or, you know, get butthurt because they don't get it. But everybody knows there's another deal coming down the line, and it really is true that everybody is okay with everybody else growing. So it's a huge advantage that we all have that, and we it's a bonus to the people that walk through the door and that our employees, they're getting access to all these deals. We we try to sell them in house first and then sell them out.

So, you know, a part of 40% of the houses don't even see the streets. Our us or our team buys them, and they pay fair prices. And we're kind of almost our own kinda ecosystem there in the building. So, and How long have you been doing that? About three years now.

Okay. So since you've done that, what's the turnover been like? Not very I mean, I don't think anybody's left on their own that hasn't either been forced out or kind of, hey, nudged out. So it's been really, really good. And we're in fact, we're grow we're we, started a property management company, Lucas, myself, and Brian, managing our rentals, and we're getting ready to start managing our team's rentals.

So we're not gonna manage for outside people, but it's a huge benefit for being a part of our team is we have really, really good property management. We'll manage it for you, if they're going to grow rental. So they're why wouldn't they buy rentals, which is what we want? We got the sources to them. We have the funding too, and then we'll manage them after the fact.

So, our goal is to have everybody keep growing their rental portfolios.

Steve: I love it. And that's something that we we want to push as well. Isn't that we're not pushing it as well in Phoenix, but that's something that we're actively working on, going to Oklahoma and so on. The abundance component, can you talk about that?

Sam: Yeah. It's just one of our one of our core values is having that mindset of abundance, and it's not just something you talk about. It's something we hire by for sure, and it's something you, unfortunately, sometimes have to fire by people that don't have that mindset of abundance. Because if everybody has it, then it's kind of just, like, not get too it's not like it's pretty harmonious, not hippie environment, but kind of like everything's okay. There's no pressure.

There's none of that. Everybody just alright. Okay. Well, I'll get the next one kind of thing as opposed to one or two people kinda trying to stab somebody in the back or go around and do that. That that's pretty apparent when those people are there, and that's pretty easy to spot them because it's not like half and half, you know, half people doing this, that.

So it's pretty pretty easy to spot those people.

Steve: Got it. And then at some point, you grew a bunch of social media followers.

Sam: Mhmm. What

Steve: was tell me about that journey.

Sam: Yeah. So, you know, we have our rentals. We have the flipping company, and then Luke's and I are, you know, part owners in both of those. And then we were both running the flipping company. It was kind of we weren't tapping into our full potential.

So it's kinda like a divide and conquer thing. Education is obviously a great space to get into if if you know what you're talking about. So Lucas ran the flipping company Faster House, and the farther I get away from that company, the more money they make. So I'm good with that. So we're both running it together.

So he's crushing it. You know, they're record breaking months every month. And then, you know, I started growing a social media following just because I just wanted to do education and grow a brand. That's all I really knew. Kinda started to just build the following, just posting about what we're doing because there's, unfortunately, people that have done two bird deals and sell a bird course.

And there's things like that. So, you know, there's all that stuff out there, and I you know, we we We're

Steve: not calling out any names.

Sam: No. No names. We'll do it after. But there's there's so many people in that space that had done and I don't feel like I'm very, braggy or cocky at all. They've done, like, 10% what I've done, and they were selling all these courses and do all this stuff.

So felt like a good space to get into if I was gonna be actively investing. And so that's what we kinda did and not like good as some of the people we talked about earlier. Social media, I just post about what I do and try to be authentic, and it seems to catch on at times for sure.

Steve: Well, social media was kind of a a means to an a strategy. 100%. Alright. So, Eric Brewer and I are gonna be talk presenting in a few weeks, talking about the importance of social media. So how about instead of me doing the presentation, why don't you just tell everyone?

Sam: Let's do you can take you got the notes in the back to take? I mean so growing a growing a brand is is everything. I didn't realize this until I started to get into it, but you used to have to have a camera and a a a TV station to grow brand and become famous. The Kardashians are the perfect first example. They don't do anything except live their daily lives, but they have cameras in front of it.

Now they're uber famous. You can do it now, though, with your phone. So having a brand is never gonna be a bad thing. I mean, speaking to the crier with you, but the more eyeballs you have, the more influence you'll have and, therefore, the more money you'll make, and it just opens up so many possibilities. I'm sure you get it too.

I get three or four different brands a week reaching out for me to do some type of paid advertising on TikTok or Instagram. And just having that following is only gonna get more and more important. Directors are hiring actors. They're quoted hiring actors with bigger social media followings over their acting skills because just having that brand is so important, and it's just gonna get more and more important going forward. So I I behind that for sure.

Steve: Yeah. And I think, that was kinda what was fascinating, like The Rock. Right? Like, he's not to take anything away from him as an actor, but he said, I wanna be the highest paid male actor. How am I gonna do this?

I'm gonna have the most Instagram followers. And he actively just pursued building on his Instagram, and now he's the highest paid male actor.

Sam: Yeah. I love him, but you're he's not the most talented actor. I mean, he's I think he's pretty talented for the he plays his role as well. He's not like he's a horrible actor. But Right.

Yeah. You're right. A 100%. So it's just growing that brain is is gonna I think it's gonna be more and more apparent going forward and more and more important.

Steve: So why did you start with TikTok?

Sam: I because I was wanting to grow my YouTube. My YouTube, you know, starting a YouTube channel is really hard at first. Even if you kinda got really cool stuff to talk about, it's just really hard with, you know, there it's just such a saturated space. The entire reason I started Instagram was to push people to to, to YouTube. I think I started YouTube in, like, February, March 2020, and it was slow going.

It was doing okay. So then come summer, June, July 2020, I started TikTok and, a little bit easier in that saturated space. You can do a video quickly. You don't need to edit it as much. It's just much easier to do.

And, yeah, it just kind of started to gain traction and and kinda really, really start to blow up. And then I started Instagram, so now I'm kinda juggling all three Yeah. All three of their space.

Steve: But any tips for someone that's you know, they're watching this right now and they're like, well, okay. I need to get you got 1.2, 1.3. Where are you at now?

Sam: We're about 2,000 away from 1.2. I just looked over close to be maybe by the maybe be 1.2 by the time I pick my phone up, but right at that 1.2.

Steve: Yeah. So 1.2. So any, recommendations for someone right now that they want to start the TikTok path? What what would you recommend?

Sam: Do it because just it's gonna be weird. It's I still don't love it all the time. Nobody believes me. I don't love having a camera in my face all the time, but just do it, and it's gonna be weird. It's gonna be uncomfortable.

Your first 10 videos are gonna suck. No one's gonna watch them. But this, this smart this smart Asian man who doesn't have much of a jumper told me one time that if it sucks, nobody watches it. So who cares? Right?

Steve: So Don't worry about your feelings because no one cares. Yeah. No. Watching it.

Sam: And no one's watching it. It's got a 100 views, so only a 100 people saw that it was not good. The other you know, all the people didn't see it. So, just do it, and then, you know, tactical things are just you gotta get their attention right away. I would do shorter, videos at first.

Like, I some of my bigger ones are thirty, forty seconds. But for my first 50 videos, if I went back, I would make them twenty seconds or less and just try to get people's attention right away and then just play with stuff. They're not gonna not all of them are gonna blow up. Just just do it. And I would what I did was everybody made fun of me for doing TikTok because they're, like, you know, especially back then now, it's be definitely become a little more mainstream.

But, I said, I'm gonna make one video a day for thirty days. And then if it does well, I'm gonna keep going. If it doesn't, I'm gonna stop it. And then I think my fifth video got, like, a 100,000 views, which was insane for me because my YouTubes were getting 80 views, a 100 views. So I get their short views, but they're still views.

So kinda got me hooked then.

Steve: Awesome. Very cool. And then along the way, we started doing group texting. Mhmm. Me, you, Kong, and Ryan.

Mhmm. So what has been your experience in in in in dealing with Kong and Ryan and and having to deal with me?

Sam: Having to deal with you, though, you guys are all, I feel like, very, very savvy entrepreneurs in your own way, and I feel like I learn a lot from all of you. Just like I feel like Ryan so calculated everything is like it seems like he's always like a step or two ahead. Everything he does, I'm like, that's an incredible idea. Why didn't I think of that? Yeah.

And then you seemed like we talked earlier, have this vision and just, like, are going towards it no matter what. You're just plowing through. And then Kong, he's just a nut is what he is. He's he he I I'm sure you too. I text him, like, probably two or three times a week.

Their voice messages because he's not the best at texting, and he just screams at in the voice message just like he does on camera. He's the exact same on off camera, but and he's just fun, and he gives tips on things. And he's he's pretty strategical and calculated too. You wouldn't maybe know that just when you see him yelling and screaming at people. But, yeah, you guys are all just, just good entrepreneurs that I learned from, and I'm just there, like I said, a million times for the you know, to kinda get the diversity in it.

Steve: Yeah. The token white guys. The

Sam: token white guy. I'll I'll take it.

Steve: Yeah. And Kong, I think, is very easy to underestimate. Mhmm. Right? He doesn't seem like he's got a plan, but he's got a plan.

Yeah. He knows exactly what he's executing. Exactly what he is.

Sam: And he's efficient, and he's very, you know, he's very frugal as far as his spending. Like, his his, like, profit to to spend ratio, I'm sure, is insane. He's he's he's a very sharp business guy.

Steve: So one thing that, we haven't talked about yet is, other people's money.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Because we're talking about building a portfolio without using any of your own money. Mhmm. So I want to go do this. How do I build a portfolio without using my money?

Sam: Yeah. So you're gonna need to obviously reach out to short term and long term lenders. Those are the two things, the two buckets, short term and long term. So short term is gonna be private lenders, hard money lenders, your money, lines of credit you have, whatever that is to get the property purchased at a discount like we talked

Steve: about with the BRRR method. So funding it with other people's money.

Sam: Funding the funding the initial purchase and rehab with other people's money and then taking it to the bank long term because banks don't want anything to do with the property that's not rented or lived in. They don't they're not gonna

Steve: take risky.

Sam: They're not gonna take a risk. They're just not gonna take a risk on a house that needs $30,000 worth of work. Some of them, like, underwrite and and deny loans that, you know, have a couple inspection items missing from the county. So you have to get that's what it just opens up a space for that short term lending, which is harder private money usually, and then you take it to the bank for the long term. So those short, so those, you know, small local banks are huge to work with.

You're not really gonna probably have these big banks to work with at first, but just getting other people's money and understanding how to leverage it. Like, most people think I'm not borrowing money from anybody. It's risky to it's risky to borrow money. Paying cash, nobody gets wealthy paying cash for things unless they already have cash. That's just not how the world works.

People don't think of it through, like, a business mindset. You think Amazon started out with cash? No. I guarantee Bezos had millions and millions of dollars from angel investors. Facebook, I know, started out with angel investors.

You have to take money from other people

Steve: Mhmm.

Sam: And deploy that money into assets that produce cash and grow in value. Then you take the cash that assets produces, and you pay back the person you borrowed the money from. And if you did it right, there's cash flow left over, and you get to ride the wave of that asset going up in value. So it's it almost seemed too good to be true. Like, I'm borrowing money to buy something, and what I bought is paying me every single month.

And I'm paying off the debt, and I'm not the one paying it. And you get to take advantage of the ride. It's it's it's pretty phenomenal if you if you can do it right.

Steve: How are you sourcing the private money?

Sam: A bunch of different ways. At first, it was just like, you know, family, friends, or acquaintances, and then it kinda went out to, wow, I see that you've done pretty good, and it's like a family friend that somebody you've never met, talk to that family friend, and they're bragging about, you know, how much they've done, how much money they've made, you know, off of you, which is fine. That's what's gotta be our our main private lender makes, like, $75 a year from Doesn't interest. Just from meeting me and me and Lucas four times a year and drinking too much Tito's. Like, that's all he does and just, you know, writes checks or transfers it.

So it's just one of those things that comes with time. Like, everybody says, I don't know anybody that has extra money. Well, a, you probably do. If you texted everyone in your phone and didn't find it and you quit, just go back to your job because you're not gonna make it. You gotta work harder than that.

Not to yell at people like Kong. I gotta keep it screaming, but, you have to you have to work harder than that. And you have to talk about it all the time. Talk about it at parties. Talk about your friends.

Talk about at family gatherings that you're wanting to invest in real estate. You don't always have to ask for money. Money will find you. There's way more money sitting on the sideline than there are deals, and it's not even close. Yeah.

You just gotta find that money. And then worst case, just Google hard money lenders near me. They're there, and they'll give you their money if it's a good deal.

Steve: So we've got the skill to find good deals. There are people with money that don't have our skill set. 100%. And they're the ones that want to help us.

Sam: And there's people that wanna invest in real estate, but don't wanna do any of the work. They wanna say that they invest in real estate, so they'll write you a check to say that and then get a healthy return on the other end.

Steve: Exactly. And then, this morning, you know, I'm getting ready for work. Just, having breakfast with the kids.

Sam: So excited. Coffee. Talk to me.

Steve: Yeah. Super excited. And then I get a text from Corey Boatwright, and he's like, hey. Check out this article. I'm clicking on it as a business insider article.

What is that about?

Sam: Yeah. That that was really, really cool. Actually, it's one of the cooler things, that's happened to me in the in the education business is about a week and a half ago, Leila is her name, the, one of the writers for, Business Insider reach out to me on Instagram. She actually reached out on me reach out to me on Instagram, like, a month and a half ago and said, hey. I'm thinking about maybe doing an article.

Would you do one? And I was like, for sure. And then it went cold. So, like, I'm not gonna keep bugging her. And then she saw another one of my, one of my Instagram posts, and it caught her attention.

So it reminded her. So she reached back out about a week, week and a half ago. We set up an interview, talked about everything I'd done, and she's like, that sounds cool, but I need proof. So I had to send her all my tax returns. I had to send her all the legal documents stating that I own the LLCs and then the documents stating that the LLC owned the property.

So we talked a bit earlier. It was like, it wasn't one of those things where, like, okay. Yes. Let's do a five minute phone conversation. You own all this real estate.

Cool. I'm gonna post it. It was legitimate and verified along the way. So that I mean, that's

Steve: why I almost like a forensic audit.

Sam: Yeah. It was. It was. I mean, that's, I mean, that's why it's really cool to be an legit publication because they do all that kind of stuff.

Steve: Yeah. No. For sure. So Cornerstone Renovations on YouTube wants to know, what type of loan do you use for Burris? He's got 10 loans under his name.

So he's only able to get commercial loans, but they're short term and not long term loans.

Sam: Okay. Yeah. So that so yeah. He's he's 100% right. So you can get 10 loans in your personal name at residential rates, thirty year fixed.

That's awesome. But after 10, you have to switch over to commercial loans, which, commercial loans are usually twenty to twenty five year AMs, but they're gonna have a three to five year

Steve: Let's let's explain what AMs are.

Sam: So commercial loans are are so when you buy your, personal house, you're gonna get a thirty year fixed amortization, meaning your house is gonna be paid off at the end of thirty years. With commercial loans, they don't quite have as good of terms, so your house is gonna be paid off after twenty years. So So your payment's gonna be a little bit more because you're paying it off quicker. You're paying more every month. So it's not quite as good of terms.

And then after three or five years, they usually will say a balloon payment, and they can adjust the rate at that point. So it's just a little riskier, I guess, of a loan, but it's also an asset that's paying you every single month. Your personal house most likely not paying you every single month. You have to pay for it. So, I would just talk to more banks, because there's a 100% small local banks that will let you do a longer term loan than that and press and push it out to especially if you have 10 already.

You've already kinda proven the concept. Small local banks, the right one should fight over his business for sure.

Steve: Absolutely. And I think, we're talking about, the amortization. One thing that's everyone's familiar with a thirty year amortization on their primary house. Mhmm. Another one to look at is when you're financing a car.

Right? Your payments are based to pay the car off in three years, five years, seven years. So that's what we're talking about here. Ingrid Hernandez wants to know, do you offer lease options?

Sam: We we do not, actually, and there's no really reason for it just because it's this fact that it's just like another thing that we you know, we're doing a lot, and I feel like it's a whole another thing. I know people that have dabbled in it and don't dabble anymore because it's just trying to do a little bit of both. I know people that have done it, like, exclusively, and they don't do it anymore. So, I mean, I know that some people really, really like it, kinda like section eight, which is government subsidized housing. Like, it's a niche, but you gotta be all in and you gotta know all the rules about it, and you gotta really, really go hard at it.

And we just kinda, like, just keep things simple.

Steve: Got it. So everyone is a tenant. Mhmm. And Dom Brandon wants to know. He just got his first deal on a contract.

Congratulations, Dom. And he needs to get pictures from tenants, but what's the best way to go about getting pictures from a tenant occupied property?

Sam: So he's wanting to buy a tenant occupied property?

Steve: He's probably trying to wholesale it. Trying to

Sam: wholesale it. Yeah. So that's tough. Wholesaling tenant occupied properties can be tough for sure. So that's that's a lot of what we buy because no one else wants to mess with it, and we're willing to do it.

So, yeah, I mean, you need to get in the property. I wouldn't buy even with pictures, I wouldn't close on anything unless I've been in it, and kinda seeing. So getting pictures, analyze it, running your rough numbers, being conservative, and then I would get in there and make sure that everything's good and review the lease, talk to the tenant, all that kind of stuff. It can be done. It's just a few more steps.

And you have a built in tenant, but I would say 95% of the time, they're low on their rent, you know, market rate. So you gotta raise it up over time and figure that all out. But it can be done for sure.

Steve: Yep. So here's a question from Lotto. And before you answer it, Sam is not a certified accountant. Take his answer with a grain of salt. How is depreciation recaptured?

How is depreciation recaptured?

Sam: Talk to your CPA. I well, I'm not at that point yet, but, yeah, I I I know when when you sell it, usually at some point, then it's recaptured. But that that's all I know is when when you sell, it gets recaptured at that point.

Steve: So definitely not a CPA.

Sam: I said the word recap I said the word recaptured.

Steve: And Aliza Zapata wants to know, what is the most important screening criteria for you when you're screening your tenants?

Sam: Probably the most important one would be talking to their, their existing or past landlord and getting, like of course, every once in a while, you have someone that you can tell as they put their friend's number down, but you can ask a couple simple questions and figure out pretty quick that that's the case. So if they do that, then there's no. So they're no go. Right? Because they didn't give you their past landlord.

But talking to their past landlord or whoever runs that company or whatever the leasing agent is is really tells you they'll tell you the history of them because and especially in Saint Louis, not a huge market. You don't wanna have a reputation of just giving away, you know, or not being honest. So they're usually pretty honest, and they'll tell you that's the number one thing. I mean, I wouldn't just do that. You gotta kinda do the income verification, the background check, you know, the credit score, all that kind of stuff.

But the number one thing would for me would be talking to their past landlord and getting really how they live, not how they say they live.

Steve: Any funny stories in your screening conversations?

Sam: Yeah. We've had some some crazy stuff pop up. Look, I mean, like I said, I haven't done, like, any screening myself in several years, but I'm trying to think anything anything too crazy. I mean, we've had people with, like, just say I've, you know, I've I've never been evicted before. They check that box, and literally, they've had eight evictions in the past ten years.

So,

Steve: oh, you're counting those?

Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I did I thought you meant, like, this year.

Steve: Yeah. Alright. Leona King. So self employed new. They have a 100 k equity in their investment home.

How would you go about pulling out the equity in your investment property?

Sam: Yeah. So if you have the equity investment property, you just need to talk to whatever bank you're wanting to to do the the cash out on or the refinance on and figure out what they want. You know, self employed is always a bad thing, especially if you, you know, were self employed, but, you know, I have a steady income of w twos coming in from multiple companies. So self employed is only tricky when it's, like, right away after you've been established. It's not too bad, but just talk to the banks.

Some banks will have different rules or what they'll do or they what they won't do, but they'll just give you, you know, a loan on the difference and give you out a cash out refinance. It's pretty simple. They they pretty much take care of all of it. So

Steve: Alright. And believe Steve wants to know, when you're working with a partner, or how do you suggest working with a partner when you're starting out and neither of you have experience?

Sam: Yeah. So, I mean, that's where that's where we were when I started out. Luke's and I knew I mean, everybody starts out with no experience. So, like, that's the definition of experience. You know?

So that's where everyone starts. So there's nothing wrong with that. I would say the biggest thing is making sure it's the right partner, making sure that you guys have established ground rules as, you know, are you friends before? What does that look like? Does, you know, friendship come first?

Like, making sure you have those type of conversations and making sure there's kind of a a ying to your yang. Like, I'm a little bit more of the sales, marketing, negotiating, getting deals. Lucas is the operations, the systems, the processes, the engineer type. And at first, we both did everything together, and that was fun. That was cool.

That was really fun starting a business with your best friend, but we weren't very efficient. So then we, like I said, we divided and conquered and both went with our strengths, and we were able to grow like crazy because I'll do all of that part of the business. He'll do all that part of the business. I'm not checking on what he's doing. He's not checking what I'm doing because we have that trust, and we're really able to get traction.

So I'll say make sure they're the right partner first. And then you're gonna do you're gonna make a ton of mistakes on the way. Just figure it out together and and learn and then and grow and just be willing to Monday morning quarterback, go back and look at the deals or what happened and and make adjustments.

Steve: Sounds like, complementing each other Mhmm. As far as skill sets important to you.

Sam: Yes. That was my yin and my yang. So that was a better way of saying it.

Steve: Got it. And Cornerstone Renovations wants to know what type of marketing are you guys doing? I imagine she's talking about as far as sourcing properties.

Sam: Yeah. So we're doing, I mean, a little bit of all of it. We have TV commercials. We do direct mail when you're driving for dollars. We'd have Facebook ads, SEO, which is search engine optimization, meaning someone types in sell my house fast Phoenix.

Those top, like, you know, five spots are super, super valuable, and it takes a lot of different time of having a website that's been verified and approved and has a bunch of backlinks. So there's a lot that goes into it. And then, you know, we do a little bit of Google AdWords. So we do a ton of different things. But for new people, I would suggest you don't you don't have to spend if you're looking to buy five to 10 houses a year, I wouldn't spend a dollar in marketing.

I would go out of network because you can you can spend ten hours a month networking and fill that 10 houses a year pretty easily.

Steve: It's pretty amazing. Right? If you just go out and talk to people

Sam: Yep.

Steve: What you can do. Mhmm. And then, Angel q wants to know, when you're writing off depreciation repairs, you're not showing your income, so how are you financing your properties with long term debt?

Sam: So not accounting again, but, you know, the banks know what to look for. That that's it. You have your gross, what you're making, and then it depreciates from there, and then it gets to, you know, what you're actually paying tax on. They know to look at the top of the line and see how much money you made. They know to look and see how much you made before depreciation.

I was just sending talking about that business insider article earlier. I sent that over to, to them and, you know, explained our you know, we have $330,000 of depreciation. Just so you know, go to this line, this column, just so you see that. So you know, we look at the income amount. It's not super impressive, but add back that $3.30, and that's what the rentals have done, this year.

So it's it's kind of just, you know, a way to oh, you know, the the they're smart enough to know that you're gonna try to not show that much income so you don't pay taxes.

Steve: Is that similar to stated income loans? Maybe. Maybe. So stated income loans. Right?

I mean, we had that whole crisis in 2008. Right? They made that big movie, Big Short, whatever. I

Sam: just watched it the other day. That's it. I understand it now. When I watch it, the whenever it came out, didn't understand it. Now I understand it.

Steve: Now it makes sense. So, you know, stated income was one of the things that caused everyone to get into trouble because you had a w two, and you could tell the bank this is how much you're really making. Mhmm. State income was originally designed for people that are self employed. Okay.

So it sounds kinda like you're saying, here's my real income. Like, I know my w two my my 10 40 says this, but here's my real income.

Sam: Yeah. But it's not like and I heard stories of it's not like whiting it out and just making up a number. It's a legit number that that can be verified that that's how much rent you've collected because they can look at all the properties and see how much you have on making an income.

Steve: So Yeah. Lotto wants to know also, how do you know when to offer deals that come into your teams? I guess, maybe how much to offer on those deals, or, how does, I guess, how does that work when when a team's interested in buying your deals?

Sam: Yeah. So, like, as far as, like, us buying deals off the team, the the the deals are coming from the other buyers?

Steve: Yeah. So, you you know, Faster House Mhmm. Right, is just finished renovating it.

Sam: Mhmm.

Steve: How does that process work from Faster House finishing it to everyone in your office getting to review that deal before you push it out?

Sam: Okay. So we only sell houses to the team before we renovate, so we're not gonna renovate for you. So you we it comes in. We're gonna wholesale it out to the public. You guys got first shot at it.

Do you want it? Go run your numbers. You know, if we don't want it, you know, you guys, we don't take every good deal. Obviously, we want the team to get some, but then they they make the choice to buy it before it's rehabbed. And then so it's just kind of a whoever offers the best fairest terms and, you know, is okay with not, you know, not her biggest every deal.

Steve: So So it's not a right at first refusal. It's not like Sam's looking at this and then Phil's looking at it. It's Corey makes the best offer.

Sam: Yeah. Pretty much. I mean, we have, like, just we don't want to get sticky, but everyone does have that mindset of the bonus. There is kind of a order of operations that it goes to and kinda owners at the top of that owners. So, we could, but we'd I mean, we don't grab every deal, but it's more of you know, not everybody's looking to do, you know, five deals a month like we are.

Everybody just, you know, a handful a year or 10 a year, and it just it just kinda seems to work out because of that that mindset that we talked about earlier.

Steve: Yeah. So Kai Nguyen on YouTube also wants to know, I've done a few wholesale deals, but now I want to get a rental. I got a rental property first or Airbnb first.

Sam: So I have I haven't gone the Airbnb route. I'm I think we're gonna dip into that maybe next year or later this year when kinda some of this other purchase we've been doing settles, but I think it's whatever you wanna do. I think the, both of them have their positives and negatives. Airbnb, I would definitely suggest hiring that management out. It's just way more hands on.

Tennis moving in and out all the time.

Steve: Very active work. That's not passive income.

Sam: That well, unless you're hiring

Steve: it out. Unless you're hiring it out.

Sam: Yeah. So you you get more income with Airbnbs, but it's a lot more work. You have to furnish it. You have to keep it. You know?

So I would probably suggest just the long term rental, but, I mean, that's not saying that's the right answer. Just because that's what I know and that's what I feel I'm comfortable with doesn't mean that's something that you have to do. But I love that they're wholesaling one again to rentals. That's that's exciting.

Steve: Well, that's the next logical step. So, Robert Ster was asking a question about good modeler of cash flows. Is there a good modeler of cash flows? Do you understand that question?

Sam: Like, like, a model to use for cash flow, maybe, like a cash flow formula?

Steve: Yeah. Robert, can you restate that question? I'm I'm having a hard time understanding it. John Clash in YouTube wants to know what are common terms for longer term private money loans?

Sam: So longer term so most private lenders aren't gonna loan long term. They wanna get their money in and out in, like, six months, you know, maybe eight months, something like that. But, like, longer term private, you know, you can kinda have it however you want. You know, owner financing is an option. It's kinda like having a private lender, but that money that that private lender that is most likely gonna wanna give you, they're gonna wanna have back.

They're not gonna wanna give you $200,000 and get paid off over the next ten years. I mean, maybe, but I would say a huge majority of private lenders are just gonna wanna get in and out and, you know, especially at first. So It's

Steve: a little bit it's a little bit like active income

Sam: for them. Yeah. Yeah. It is. And so that long term private lending isn't isn't a super common term, and and I I don't know a ton of them that do it that way.

Steve: Right. And then the friendly investors wants to know, does credit score come into play when you're doing your BRRS?

Sam: Oh, yeah. 100%. 100%. So you don't have to have, like, an 800 credit score. I usually tell people mid six hundreds is is probably good enough.

So if you have a credit score below that, your options are, you know, wholesale and and, you know, fix and flip and, you know, pay a company to raise your credit score essentially or partner with someone with a good credit score. A lot of people do that. A lot of people with credit score is, you know, the high five hundreds. They're gonna partner with somebody. I'll find the deals.

I'll source. I'll do everything. You know, you kinda bring your money and your brain to the table, and and we'll partner on the rental. We'll split everything fifty fifty. A year or two down the line, your credit score is up, and you guys can separate your partnership and have 10 rentals together, or you can continue to grow together if it worked out.

So if you really need rentals right now, don't have that credit score, you probably have to partner with somebody.

Steve: Yeah. And Enrique Benton wants to know, should you take a conventional loan out for a bank to do a BRRR, or should you stick with finding an investor to front the money first?

Sam: Yeah. So you you can't take a conventional loan out with the bank to do the BRRR. So in at the beginning, they're gonna you're gonna have to use an investor's money at first. Banks won't don't want anything to do with properties that need work. Even, like, the riskier banks that, you know, will take on deals that they're not gonna want to lend you a $100,000 on a house, you know, that needs $50,000 worth of work.

They're gonna lend you what it's, you know, a percentage of what it's worth after it's fixed up and rented. They wanna see income coming in. They wanna know that their money's gonna get their bank's gonna note's gonna get paid. Right.

Steve: And then you've got, you know, several a couple 100 properties. Kai wants to know, are you keeping it in different LLCs, one LLC? What is your structure?

Sam: Yeah. So I think the structure is one of those things where there's I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer. We just kinda do what other people I know have done and and what our CPA is comfortable with. So about every 40 to 50 houses, we start an LLC. So WAP properties owns, like, 55 houses, and then WAP assets owns, like, 35 houses.

And then we just started another LLC, so every thirty fifty houses, we're starting an LLC, and then every big deal owns its own LLC. So all of our apartment complexes each has its own LLC and our storage facility. So, like, if it's a big enough deal, we'll start an LLC just for that deal. And then every 30 to 50 houses, we'll start a new LLC. Just kinda keeps the books a little bit separate.

Just doesn't have we're not gonna start an LLC for every property. Some people do. I think, technically, that's the the safest way to do it is to have every single property have its own LLC and own bank account, but that's that's not worth it in my opinion. So it's

Steve: just like a nightmare.

Sam: Yeah.

Steve: Did you name your LLC after a rap song?

Sam: Yeah. I did. No. We're actually suing Cardi b because she took our name. That w a p, WAP, all that stuff was it was such a bad name because so many even before the Cardi b song came out, so many different people, you know, the the Italian thing, which isn't even that's WOP.

So all that counts. Differently. Yes. Yes. It's not even the same thing.

It was walls and prim is what we did it because WP properties was taken when we were set up at LegalZoom at the bar before softball game, several beers deep, just WP properties were taken, so we did WAP not even thinking. That was, like, 2014. So the song came out six years later, so there was not link Was it

Steve: a trademark?

Sam: Or Yeah. We Season desist. Yeah. Season desist. We're we're Midwest Property Group now.

We changed our name. Midwest Property Group is what our tenant knows us as, not WAP anymore.

Steve: Gary Mahill wants to know, how much money are you putting down for private loans?

Sam: None. None. That's how most private loans work. I get that a lot like a hard money lender, private money lender will want me to have skin in the game. Some will for sure at first, but maybe you do it first.

But then you'll get it back when you refinance. But as you start to develop a relationship in in equity with that lender, they will probably won't require any, if not a little bit. I don't really know any private lenders that do. A lot of hard money lenders will ask for 10% down. But if it's a screaming deal and they feel like you've wholesale, then you're comfortable.

If you got it under contract for $1.50 and it needs $30 and it's worth 300, they probably are gonna finance all of it because they're you know, it's a lot of it's gonna focus on the quality of the deal for hard money lenders. Private money lenders, most of them don't really even understand the deal, so they're just gonna trust you. But hard money lenders will probably want some skin in the game. But if it's a screaming deal, they might bend the rules because they wanna lend. That's what they wanna do.

That was

Steve: the deal we had just very recently. So, we bought a deal. The property is worth, like, 300 or something. We bought it for 50,000, and they didn't ask for any down payment. They're very they're very generous.

Sam: Yeah. They're like, okay. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Exactly. Williams Cast wants to know, do you recommend getting a HELOC for a personal free and clear home to buy investment properties?

Sam: Yes. I would say so. I get that a lot. HELOC or cash out. It really kinda depends on if you can active use that money, getting a, a cash out refinance, you're going to, you know, have a little less interest.

So if you if you got places to put that money, a refinance is great. If you don't, HELOC's the next best thing because you're not paying any interest when you're when you're not using it. Interest rates usually a little bit higher. But I think having a HELOC on a paid off house is incredible. You can use some of that to put down if a lender wants 10% down, or you can finance the rehab with that, and then, you know, get it back when you refinance.

Steve: And then Justin on YouTube wants to know, can you explain the process and paperwork when you're using private money?

Sam: Yeah. So there there's kind of four main things you're gonna want with the private money lender, and I would suggest using these as a private lender because they're gonna be this is a comfort level to them, and it protects both of you. So the first one that we always do is you personally guarantee it. Even though it's not, so you're personally guaranteeing that's your skin in the game right there. Even if, you know, this property fails, I'm still gonna personally make sure that the money gets to you.

They're gonna get listed as additional insured. So if the property burns down, they the check goes out to you and them, and then they're gonna have a the the other biggest one is they're gonna be you know, they can either have a mortgage lien or be listed on the deed as part owner. So that's kind of a paperwork to really, really secure them and make them feel comfortable. The other one is you can kinda do, like, a promissory note with your LLC. LLC.

So those are kind of the four main main terms. And and there's a million of those out there. Google personal guarantees, probably have a lawyer review it, but, like, that all that stuff's paperwork's pretty simple. The additional shirt thing, you just tell the insurance agent to put them in this address on as additional

Steve: shirt. I've heard that before, so that's really good. Mhmm. And then how do you make things fair with a fifty fifty partner?

Sam: Yeah. You just that that goes into making sure it's the right partner and making sure you guys understand. There's times where, Lucas carries 80% of the load on our rentals because I'm doing something and trying to grow this education thing. I feel like he's doing that now, and I feel like there's times where I've kinda carried the load. So just not not doing tick for tack or not, you know, counting every little every little score, keeping score of every little thing that happens, just understanding what you're growing together, having a similar mindset, and just knowing that overall, it's all gonna you know, at the end of all of this, we'll have each done about half of our share.

And if one of us done a little bit more, that's okay.

Steve: Yeah. And how much running all of this, everything, how much are you spending a month? On Faster house, faster freedom, WAP. I don't

Sam: know anything about WAP anymore. So, faster faster house is the big is the most overhead. And like I said, I'm very removed from that company. So but I I do know that we're our overhead's anywhere between 80 to 100,000 a month in faster house, which is pretty good, you know, considering a lot of the income we're bringing in. And a lot of that overhead is, you know, office and paying people, and a lot of most of our everybody gets paid off a percentage of the deal, so that's not even overhead.

And then faster faster freedom is probably 15 to $20 a month in overhead, and then, our rent or our, property management companies are probably 15 or 20. So a $150 a month to $200 a month probably in expenses going out or out the door.

Steve: Got it. And you're always bragging about how much debt you have.

Sam: Yes. I am because it's good debt.

Steve: What where where are you right now?

Sam: 13,000,000.

Steve: 13,000,000 in debt. Man. Alright. What is your why?

Sam: My why is I mean, every the family is why, but, like, having my why is it's having an impact. I'm wanting that's why working for somebody else, I wasn't able to create enough impact. Having impact on my family, first and foremost, for sure, but having an impact, like, on the world and having impact on my daughter, Maisie's great great grandkids, like, being able to impact my family for two hundred years, a hundred years, whatever it is. People talking about, you know, kind of what I've been able to build, not just the money that I'm going to be able to hand down, but the the that he went for it, that he did it, that he was successful, like, maybe motivating them to go after their dreams and not just be a cog in the wheel. So just having that impact on my family directly and then indirectly down the line, but then also being able to impact the world and have, like, your name kinda be known for a long time.

That's the social media is part of that. We just started a five zero one three c. We're like, you know, with Collective Genius, we've raised a lot of money, but we're gonna raise over a $100 in our first year as a five one three c. That's pretty good. That's awesome.

So being able to impact the world that way and just be able to to help more people. So just impact, I guess, is is the one word to not give the generic my family. They are, but to kinda give you a little more context than just my family.

Steve: And what are you struggling with the most right now? Probably,

Sam: not probably, struggling the most with right now in general is is, you know, monetizing the education. But to get deeper than that is, me personally, is just being, being present is very, very difficult for me and just taking in what's going on right now and and being present when I'm doing things and, you know, not always looking ahead and not always looking for more is is hard for me to just kind of appreciate what's going on. Stop and smell the roses is very difficult for me.

Steve: What are you doing to fix it?

Sam: I just I just started a or I just joined a a weekly mastermind, that's about, like, growing healthy, happy, healthy, happy lives. My wife's actually in it. She doesn't do any that kind of stuff ever. So every Wednesday at eleven now, we're on a joint call with other people talking about, our lives and our businesses and our family. So trying to kinda help be present with that and then just talking with her about it.

So I'm taking action on it and journaling. I I journaled on, Friday night. Like, supposed to journal every day, then my backpack haven't opened up since then. So I got you're supposed to journal every day. But I started, I just gotta get back to it.

But It's close.

Steve: You're close. Yeah. You're you're almost there.

Sam: Taking baby steps.

Steve: Right?

Sam: We're going in the right direction.

Steve: So Robert, I actually posted in the Facebook video is, the modeler is basically the amortization schedule as well as, you know, determining, I guess, what the return on investment and so on. So

Sam: Yeah. We've we've we've created our own, and it's it's a really, really robust calculator that you take, the rehab calculator. You put all the rehab in and calculate your entire rehab, including your holding costs, your owning costs, your utilities, all that. And then it pushes it to the max level off of formula, and then that pushes the cash flow. So we we have a a huge robust calculator that's, like, six tabs wide that we that we used to do it that you get if you do the mentorship.

That's that's not a giveaway giveaway lot for freeing out that one.

Steve: Yeah. And what is your superpower?

Sam: Probably, I would say having a competitive mindset of abundance. Because I feel like a lot of people are competitive, and they wanna step on your throat. And I win, you lose. That's the only way this works. You know?

Never, you know, never split the difference kind of a mindset. And then a lot of people are, like, have that mindset of abundance, and they kinda get stepped on. And then, you know, people can't take advantage of them. So I'm extremely competitive, but I don't want you to fail for me to win. Like, I wanna have more Instagram followers than you.

I just I want yours to grow. I just want mine to grow faster. So I just being able to have a very, very competitive nature, but understand that there's enough out there for everybody. I feel like that is I wouldn't call it rare. I'm not trying to say that, but usually the people that are super, super competitive don't have that mindset of abundance, and usually people that mindset of abundance aren't really competitive.

It's like, ah, whatever. So just having a a pretty decent mixture of both, I think, really helps me, truly want to be better, but truly want others to be better as well.

Steve: So the gauntlet's been laid down here. You and I are having a competition

Sam: Okay.

Steve: To figure out who's more abundant.

Sam: Okay.

Steve: So let this be the record. What's the greatest lesson you've learned?

Sam: The greatest lesson I've learned I don't know if that was on the sheet before, but I'm no. I'm kidding. The greatest lesson I've learned, is probably that the more and it and it's true. It sounds corny, but the literally, the more that you give, the more you get. It sounds completely counterintuitive the more information I give for free.

Like, I could charge you for this, but the more I give it out for free, the more willing I am to just give away calculators, give away information, respond to everybody on Instagram for free, and answer questions that people charge a lot of money. The more I do that, the more you start to make money, the more doors open, the more, you know, the more avenues to create revenue just seem to come around. So it it's it sounds a little woo woo and a little bit corny, but it's true. The more you give, the more you get. If you try to hold all your information right here, you're just not gonna reach your full potential.

Steve: Yeah. And I think that's a a a great lesson. We actually had Sean Terry out here on the show. I wanna say, like, two years ago now, but that was he had that same thing. He's like, wow.

If I have a podcast and I just talk about what's working for me, life just gets better and better and better. Mhmm.

Sam: And he

Steve: actually challenged me on that show. I was like, has that been the same for you too? He's like, actually, yeah, it has been. So Yep. That's that's that's a wonderful lesson.

Again, that goes back to the abundance. Yep. But I'm still more abundant than you.

Sam: We'll see about that. I'm I'm competitive that I'm more abundant than you. Alright. How much money? Let's write a check check.

I'm getting this done.

Steve: So last question. Is there a book that you've gifted more than any other?

Sam: Book that I've gifted more than any other? Probably not. I kinda have my my main three that I really like to to push people. At least the main two is, you know, obviously, the Restat Poor Dad and the, Think and Grow Rich are kind of the the big ones that I really like to push people to. I really like the secret.

I'm sure you you're aware of that one. And then Eat That Frog is one that I really, really like.

Steve: Yeah. Mhmm. Was that before you left Caterpillar or when you were at Caterpillar?

Sam: As far as all those books

Steve: The Eat That Frog.

Sam: Eat That Frog was you know that book. Right?

Steve: Yeah. Brian Tracy.

Sam: Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Eat That Frog was probably right around when I was quitting. Probably it's been three, four years I need to reread it, so probably right around when I was quitting.

I really I don't know why I like that book so much, but I do.

Steve: It's a powerful lesson, and a lot of people need to be aware of it. Right? It's like if you just do the most difficult thing first, then life just gets a lot easier.

Sam: Yeah. I've First thing in the morning. How many people do that? You push off the most difficult thing till the end of the day.

Steve: Then I'll get to

Sam: it when I get to it. Either don't do it, or when you do it, you just rush through and half ass it. But if you do it at the beginning of the day, a, most important thing's done, and b, it's a high. You're on door like, the rest of the day is

Steve: kinda downhill. So yeah. Absolutely. So I want you to think about what you wanna leave the listeners with. Mhmm.

While I make a few quick announcements. Guys, if you got value today, please like, subscribe, share, comment. It helps us helps us reach more people. We can continue to make more impacts. And we do have our all day sales training.

It's three weeks from now. If you're interested, go to disruptors.com/salestraining. Sales trainer sales training?

Sam: You have sales training. Yep. We like I said, we have four full time acquisition guys and three part time acquisition guys, and they're on Steve's training every single week. And that's one of the reason we buy more houses and we buy houses deeper is because we have an understanding of the sales process, and our crazy, crazy sales guys understand it.

Steve: That's awesome. And then next week, tuning in, we got Fernando Angelucci. He's coming in to talk about self storage. I think he's our first self storage guy. Mhmm.

So I'm actually really excited to learn about that, because you can make money with a rental and depreciate without dealing with human beings.

Sam: Yes. Yes.

Steve: Alright. So what are some last thoughts you wanna leave the listeners with?

Sam: The biggest one is is don't be afraid of debt. That is the only way that I know to realistically realistically make your impact and create financial freedom. You're not going to create financial freedom, which is, in my opinion, is creating enough passive income every month to, you know, exceed your expenses. You're not gonna do that if you're actively working for somebody else. That's the difference in active and passive.

Just don't be afraid of debt unless you're inheriting millions of dollars or your last name is the name of somebody that owns a company, you're not going to create financial freedom generation wealth unless you go into debt. So don't be scared of debt. Don't do it in a dumb way. But if you understand how to leverage debt, your life will change in an instant. It really will.

If you understand how to properly leverage debt, you can create wealth and a lot sooner than you think.

Steve: How can someone get a hold of you?

Sam: Just TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram. Same faster freedom. Same same handle. I'm much more active on Instagram messenger, but I would appreciate a follow on all three. They all three kind of fit different niches as far as what type of content I can produce because of the platform, and I feel like they're all very, very valuable and and, entertaining and educational.

Steve: And what I can say is I I think of all the people that I work with, you know, are am connected with, you are giving away the most free game on TikTok of anyone. Mhmm. So for sure For sure. Follow you on TikTok.

Sam: It's got the most followers. Yeah. It's that mindset of just putting it out there.

Steve: So more free game there. It's unbelievable.

Sam: We give it all for free, and we've had the most sign ups this last month and then, ever in our in our mentorship that we have. Obviously, I give away free stuff. I have a paid mentorship for people that want it. The more I give away, the more people pay me to teach them the next level stuff. So Yeah.

That mindset thing.

Steve: Awesome. Thank you very much. It's an absolute blast. Thank you guys for watching.