How I Did $700K in my First 6 Months

Steve Trang: Everybody, welcome to today's episode of Real Estate Disruptors. So we have Michael Smith with Oasis Homebuyers. Michael flew in from Columbus, Ohio. Talk about how he did 700 k in his first six months of wholesaling and kept it going. So, guys, I'm gonna mention create a 100 millionaires.

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Michael Smith: Yeah. Let's go.

Steve: Alright. So first question is, what was your life like right before you got into real estate?

Michael: Oh, man. What was life like before I got into real estate? My real estate journey actually started in 2018. I had a landscaping business that I was trying to grow, and I brought in the wrong people to manage it. They had a whole bunch of experience, and they had just left their old landscaping jobs.

And, they found me. I didn't find them. Let's put it that way. And so was getting out of that, endeavor, and it was a whole bunch of headaches. Actually, I had two or three lawsuits at that time too.

And when you get first served with your first lawsuit, I thought my life was over. Yeah. Like, really over. Like, everything was falling apart. So I got it into real estate, just selling off some of my landscaping equipment, and, my tax guy was like, hey.

If you don't buy something, you're gonna run into some issues. So I just bought it at a couple apartments off the MLS. Didn't do anything about it. Just sat on them.

Steve: Just bought a couple of apartments?

Michael: Yeah. Small stuff. Like, nothing big. Four unit, and I bought 10 units in 2018. Okay.

Didn't do anything about them. They they weren't that sexy. They didn't really cash flow. Fast forward, I started a w two job selling new homes, learned how to to sell a little bit better, make some good money. They were a billion dollar plus company.

And then, I met You

Steve: became a realtor?

Michael: I wasn't a realtor. I just build a rep. I'm not a rep. I don't like schooling. I don't like education.

And

Steve: So how does that work? So you you you work for the builder. Yep. What were you selling?

Michael: New build. So, like, you'd come into the model and, have to go through the process discovery Mhmm. Find out what needs you needed, what price point, what your family needed.

Steve: You'd have to be a realtor to sell the new build?

Michael: No. Because they owned it. Interesting.

Steve: I know you can do it in property management. Mhmm. You can work in an apartment complex without being licensed. I know you'd be working in new builds, sell new builds without being licensed. Yeah.

Michael: I think it probably varies by the state.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: But in Ohio, anyway, as long as you work for the company, you're okay.

Steve: Okay.

Michael: And and they're building their own product from the ground up.

Steve: Okay.

Michael: Alright. So, I did that. In the meantime, found you and and Tony Javier pretty much at the same time, somewhere around 2019, 2020, started listening to you, heard you say what you just said at the end every intro.

Steve: Mhmm. I have

Michael: a mission to make a 100 millionaires. And I was like, that's gonna be me. And then, met Tony shortly after. I had, at this point, already bought several rental units. And, leading up to it, I had found out about wholesaling.

I was like, I don't wanna be a wholesaler, but I bet I can get better deals and learn to flip.

Steve: Alright.

Michael: So that's where I went into it, hired Tony

Steve: to

Michael: get my TV ads up and running.

Steve: Mhmm. And

Michael: then 08/17/2021, my TV ads ran, and, that was the last day I worked at my w two job. They fired me that day.

Steve: August, 2021.

Michael: Yep. 2021. Yep. August 17 was the day.

Steve: Okay. So you got fired. I got fired.

Michael: For what? I never got an explanation, but it was the day my TV ads ran.

Steve: Were you this is from the new build?

Michael: Yeah. From the new build company.

Steve: They fired you. They didn't tell you why. Like like, they maybe they see the ad and

Michael: I rumor has it the the market president saw the ad. Like, I got fired. Like, I had gone into work on my off day, because this was, August '21. So, like, real estate had come to a halt in Columbus, Ohio.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: New builds in May. We had waiting list of thirty, forty people for every community. We were selling a 150, 200% of quota. Mhmm. And we couldn't keep up with that.

So we had massive waiting list. Come June 1, as I'm sure you know, the waiting list just died, and we didn't sell anything Mhmm. Because interest rates started to go up, and everyone panicked. So we didn't sell anything. At August 17, I think we only had four sales for the month on on a quota of over 50.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So they needed to let someone go, and I think they saw my ad. Mhmm.

Steve: And

Michael: they're like, hey. This guy's doing stuff on the side. We need to motivate the wholesale team. Because I was top 15 out of a 150 reps too. Yeah.

I

Steve: So I'm just trying to just picture the scenario. Were you Oasis home buyers? Yeah. So what was your ad that, like, when they saw this TV? It's got a whole

Michael: bunch of torn down houses. We buy houses cash, and I'm selling, like, 6 I think my average price point was in the low 600,000.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Like, I'm I've probably bought three or four houses since then that are above that price point, but it's not what I'm going after.

Steve: Right. Yeah.

Michael: So I mean, my ad runs on Judge Judy.

Steve: I'm just trying to picture the scenario. Like, they knew who you were.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: Everyone in the company knew who you were. Yeah. So when they saw the ad, there was no question. It was like, is that the Michael phone? Like, they just knew.

Michael: Yeah.

Steve: So it it was fairly instant. It's like, by noon, you were out the door.

Michael: Yeah. So it was I'm I'm typing an email at 05:58. This is the end of the day, and it goes, your email password were changed thirteen seconds ago. And I was like, what are you talking about? I didn't do that.

Then I hear

Steve: a door shut

Michael: and I hear another door shut, and I look out, and there's the two sales managers.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And they live, like, forty five minutes away. So the fact that they're on my end of town at 06:00 and my email I was like, oh, well, it was my last day.

Steve: So you knew instantly? Yeah.

Michael: I just closed my laptop, waited for them to come in. They're like, hey. Can you deal with all your customers? And I was like, what? You're firing me.

Yeah. Here's my laptop and key. Let's part ways. Yeah. Let's be friends.

Steve: How long how long did you work?

Michael: Shoot. It it was just shy of three years. I started in 2018.

Steve: The three years, and you were a top rep.

Michael: Yeah. I finished the year before at number eight out of a 150 reps. Gotcha.

Steve: So how did you come to be how did you become good at selling? I mean, eight out of a 150, that's top half percent Mhmm. Or top 5%. So how do you what did you do to become good at sales?

Michael: Man, so I worked at GNC and Complete Nutrition, which were supplement companies, and I was top rep number one at both of those. GNC only ranked you on a state level and a, like, territory level.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So I took pride in being number one there. Complete Nutrition ranked you nationally. I was always number one there. I think I just have this drive. If I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna be the best out of it.

Like, I quit sports in high school because I was like, I quickly learned that, like, I just didn't have the gift to go to the next level. So it's like, why continue this? So sales for me is I wanted out of my situation, didn't know my dad, grew up with my grandparents because my mom couldn't afford me, and I just knew sales could make me a lot of money. Mhmm. And not that money is everything, but I knew money could change my situation.

And and I wouldn't have to go through the things that I saw as a kid and Yeah. Didn't want my future generations behind me to have to go through any of that.

Steve: So you saw sales as a vehicle. Yep. How did you see sales to be your view?

Michael: I saw sales as a vehicle. Even at a young age, I realized that people could go into sales and could make a really good amount of money, and school wasn't for me, which is funny because I spent a lot on education now. Like, it was just Custom education. Yes. Custom to me.

Education. School had no custom education to me. It was do it this way. Right. Do what I want and and be done with it.

And I've never, really been one to follow the mold. Mhmm.

Steve: So I

Michael: didn't do well in school, at all, to the point, like, remember the day before graduation, my grandpa got a call saying, hey. We're not sure he's gonna graduate. Mhmm. Ex girlfriend got an English teacher to change my grade from an f to a d to make sure I graduated. That's how close it was.

Steve: Wow. So it's fascinating. So you you knew from early age that sales was a way out. Because for me, I never looked at sales as a way out. Right?

Like, I

Steve: looked at real estate

Michael: Yeah.

Steve: As a way to escape my w two, but I never looked at the sales component. Right? So I look more like real estate agent Uh-huh. Versus real estate sales professional. Sales is never a key part of it.

Right? It was always, like, you know, as a as a w two person, like, pharmaceutical sales

Michael: Yep.

Steve: Does pretty well, but not something that, like, sells something that you go work on.

Michael: Yeah. So I I had two people in my life that were grandparents' friend. One lived across the the way, and this was, like, 2008. My grandpa just lost his job, and he's moving to a much bigger house. And, like, when everyone else is freaking out about their houses, he's moving to a house, like, triple sized.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And he owned I asked I was like, dude, how are you like, you just got a new BMW. You're going to, like at the time, like, if I had to guess, the houses were probably, like, 200, and he was going to a neighborhood that not that now the houses are 2,000,000 plus. Mhmm. I'm like, how are you doing this? He's like, well, I own 800 apartments.

And I was like, okay. So I'm like, what is that? Could be eighth grade, probably some 13 ish when when that clicked for me. And then another gentleman, he was in sales his whole life, and he always his company gave him trips all the time, and he had the Escalade. Like, he had it all.

Mhmm.

Steve: But I don't

Michael: think he ever got to enjoy life. He, like, he always had to work. Mhmm. So I I kinda figured out at a young age if I I coupled sales, I could make a lot of money. And then if I took that money and plugged it into real estate

Steve: Mhmm. Good

Michael: things were happening. So I started my landscaping company because I I knew I could sell it. I could sell the services and make money, and the whole idea was to plug that extra money into real estate. I just wasn't smart enough to figure out the business thing at 18 years old when I started that.

Steve: You started landscaping at 18 years old.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: So you graduate high school, barely

Michael: Yeah.

Steve: And you just start a landscaping business. Yeah. I was lot of, gumption.

Michael: Yeah. I always knew I wanted to start a business, and I was out to dinner with my grandparents' friends, and they're like, you've been mulching lawns, shoveling driveways, mowing grass since you were probably 10 years old. Why don't you just go do that?

Steve: And

Michael: so they had a nice house in Muirfield, which is a an upscale community not too far from where I was. They gave me their lawn, and then I got I just knocked on everyone's door, got everyone else's lawn in that cul de sac, and then just grew it to the at one point, I think we had a 150 yards. We were mowing a week. And, 2017, we did $2,900,000 in sales six years into it. Just bootstrapping it all.

Steve: It's just funny to think about it. 18 years old, you got eight years of experience in landscaping. Yeah. So doing this as 10 Yeah. Like, this is not a normal, as a normal path to life.

Yep. Right? You were hustling since you were 10?

Michael: Probably earlier because I remember, like, elementary school. We it was, I think, BJ's wholesale. We get these, like, I don't know, two or five pound bag of mints Mhmm. And I would sell those for a quarter. Like, I'd get the whole bag from my grandparents for free, and I'd sell them for a quarter.

I'd come home with, like, 4 or $5. Mhmm. So I don't know when that started, but that was definitely elementary school. So it was well before then Yeah. That I've been selling stuff Yeah.

Trying to make a buck.

Steve: It's it's curious because I remember reading, Delivering Happiness. Have you read that one?

Michael: I haven't. No.

Steve: It's by Tony Hsieh, who founded Zappos.

Michael: Okay.

Steve: Right? He talked about how he was hustling as a kid, and I was I was reading the book.

Michael: I have read this book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. As I'm reading, I was like, this is, like, my life story. Yeah. Yeah. Like, hustling in elementary school, getting in trouble for selling things you're not supposed to be selling.

Yep. Right? And so I'm I'm always curious. It's like, what drove it? So do you know you were saying, like, you know, you you didn't know your father Yep.

Your mom was do you think that is what drove all this entrepreneur entrepreneurism entrepreneur entrepreneurship?

Steve: Most business owners waste their time and money on solutions that never fix the root problems. They'll address all the symptoms due to slow revenue. And because they're only fixing the consequences, the real problem stays hidden, and the cycle of wasting time and money continues. It's like having a lingering headache that won't go away despite trying every over the counter medicine, when reality, you should have just gone to the doctor and had them figure out exactly what was causing the headache. And that's what's so difficult about business.

You can see and feel the symptoms and yet struggle to find it. Now imagine you can find a prescription that doesn't just mask the symptoms but actually addresses the root cause. Where would your business be if you address that right now? That's what our sales event is about. Your marketing doesn't suck, your leads aren't bad, and your operations aren't terrible.

It's that you haven't addressed what actually makes you money in wholesale, which is the conversations you have with homeowners. It's critical that you build trust with sellers, demonstrate that you fully understand their situation, know exactly what's keeping them up at night, and paint the ideal outcome that leads them to a better future by working with you. That's what it takes to get signed contracts and keep your business going. Simply put, at our event, you'll walk away with a framework, phrases, questions, documents, and process to close more sales and buy more houses. Join the hundreds of others who've come to our live event and dramatically grown their business.

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Steve: you're willing to take the pill.

Michael: I think probably what drove it is, like, growing up with my grandparents, they never planned to raise two more kids after their kids moved out. Mhmm. Being told no, I hated being told no when I go to the store. And so I was like, okay. I'll just go figure out the money Mhmm.

Myself. And so I did. I think that was probably the biggest thing is being told no. And I didn't like sitting still, and so I needed a way to conversate with people. And if you had something that they wanted Yeah.

They would come talk to you.

Steve: Oh, it makes a lot of sense, because there's very few people

Michael: that just shoot out of

Steve: the gates in wholesaling. Right? There's some that do.

Michael: Yeah. But there's not a lot.

Steve: But the ones that do tend to perhaps sizzle out or fizzle out. Like, they don't hard to sustain. Right? It's hard to It's

Michael: really hard.

Steve: Sustain consistent success. You started, in '21, but in your first six months, you did almost $700,000 in revenue. Yeah. And since then, you've only continued to grow it. Yeah.

We'll talk about the real estate component later on, but what do you think it is within you that's allowed you to start fast and keep going?

Michael: Yeah. So when we started in '21, we started flipping. So that first August, I didn't do my first deal till September. So that it was fourth quarter, technically, is when I did all my real estate closings on the sales side for flips. I netted, it was eight deals, $300,000 I netted.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And then all of which was what I was on track to make in my w two. So that was my whole goal. When I got fired August 17, I was like, I just lost a $300,000 job. What the hell am I gonna do? Mhmm.

And so after all the expenses of marketing and buying the properties and selling the properties, I had $300,000 left over. Mhmm. And then '22, all I did was flip. And then when I saw my friends at the new builds running out of list again, I was like,

Steve: oh, man.

Michael: I'm gonna run into trouble. So July, we started wholesaling. And I think I was one of the first people that saw the market really shifting again in '22. And so I started wholesaling and didn't buy anything, after June. So I wholesale my first deal at July.

I got really lucky. My first deal was a 75 k assignment. Mhmm. We were gonna flip that deal, and it was gonna be a 100 k flip for us. But this buyer came out of nowhere and was like, hey.

I'll give you x amount. I was like, what? This is like a full gut job.

Steve: You're

Michael: gonna make 25. He was banking on what was happening previous spring when he sold stuff that you could sell it listed at $3.99. It would go for $4.50.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: He ended up losing, like, $40,000 on the job. I do feel a little bit bad for that because I had information that I didn't share with him. Mhmm.

Steve: Hopefully, he's not watching. Yeah.

Michael: But from there on, I just knew that I was like, okay. If I can find good deals, buyers come. Mhmm. And so that's what I've always been focused on is finding the good deals. So that first six months, we did $700,000 of '22, and I was like, this is so much easier.

There's no risk. I had a couple deals that I bought in '22 that I lost money on because that market really shifted and and prices kinda plummeted in Columbus in certain areas and just holding costs because we I don't think I ever had a house not going to contract the first three days. My first 24 houses I flipped were in contract within three days.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: I didn't know any better. Like,

Steve: it's great. It's great that this is easy. Yes. So this whole time you're doing this, you're flipping Mhmm. While working at the new build.

Michael: No. I so because I got fired. That's what started the flips is I had got fired in August of of twenty one. I like, how do I replace my $300,000 income? So I went to flipping right away.

Got it. And then, second half of or '22, I realized the market was not going to be like this forever. I need to change. Gotcha. And I was running out of cash too when you got 15 projects going.

Mhmm. You become cash strapped very quickly.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: And so I started wholesaling. And and to answer your point, how did we get there so fast is I just knew marketing and sales. That's all I've ever known. I don't know how to lead people or manage people. Don't get me wrong.

I'm learning. Mhmm. But I've always thought I was good at sales and marketing, and I knew if I could do that, lock up the deal is cheaper, everything else would come my way. And so that's what really helped us that '22 is we had the deal flow. We were one of the first people to go on TV.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: I mean, you've been in a long time. I don't think people started going on TV before. It it was COVID when I think everyone went on. Yeah. And we were on one of the first ones in our market.

Steve: So are you saying your first marketing channel was TV?

Michael: First, I I I cold called a couple of people at my w two job. I had a list of a 100 people that I cold called.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And that's when I realized, wait. I don't have the time to do this. I'm making $300,000.

Steve: Why am

Michael: I cold calling?

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And then I heard Tony I don't know if he was on your podcast. He had to be on your podcast because you were, like, one of the only people I was listening to. And then I think he got on, Tom Kroll's podcast. Mhmm. I think when Tom was on Goes on Inc?

Yeah. That one. So I heard those two back to back. Those were the two. I was like, screw it.

I'm just gonna sign up for it. Yeah. So I signed up for it. It it was, like, $10.15 grand. I don't remember.

And then Tony got me on on TV, and I was like, I have a full time job that I make a ton of money. I need hot people just calling me ready to close. Mhmm. That's literally what happened. Right.

Steve: And so is that how it works? Yeah. So right off the bat, yeah, easy leads.

Michael: I would consider them easy leads.

Steve: Okay.

Michael: They're not as easy anymore, guys.

Steve: So so talk to me about that. So your first one that comes in, you're taking the call. Yeah.

Michael: I'm taking the calls. You're taking

Steve: the calls, and you're running the you're running the inbound call. You're you're booking the appointment.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: At this time, how many houses have you bought outside? Right? Because, like, you bought the, the apartments Yeah. So I bought with a realtor.

Michael: I'd never bought single family houses before I started on TV.

Steve: Did you at least buy your own home?

Michael: Yeah. I bought my own home.

Steve: Least you bought a house before for your primary. Yeah. Yeah. But your first investment deal, you went on you've never bought a home before. Yep.

Michael: You go

Steve: in there. So talk to me about this experience.

Michael: I think when I walked into this lady's house, the first one I closed, so I started them on August. Didn't get that many calls the first two weeks, so I was a little bit nervous. We're spending it was a 10 k upfront and then 10 k ad spend for the first three months what I did. So I didn't get my first appointment till September. And I go to this lady's house, and she, like, idolized me.

And I was like, what? And, like, I just went with it. She did all the work for me, and I just presented the contract. Price and everything worked. I had heard Brent Daniels once say, even if the price works, come in $5,000 lower Mhmm.

Just so there's nothing there. And so I did that. We locked it up. We got that deal closed, and then they just started coming. Like, I got I got really lucky because, no, I was the first person in my market on TV.

Steve: And you have talked about this. Not everyone has success on TV in Ohio.

Michael: No. A lot of the big players have come and gone on TV. What would

Steve: you attribute that to?

Michael: I think, one, I was the first one. I'm not saying being first is always the best. I think in most big corporations, being first is actually, like, the worst thing you can do.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: But I think for me, TV is a proven marketing channel, if you widen your lens, and give it a long enough time frame. And and two, I've never come off. I think a lot of the the people on TV think you're gonna have all these constant lead flow. There's weeks we don't get a call from TV. And so if you were always banking on that and you weren't following up with people, you'd be in trouble.

But if I like, for example, last month, our closed deals from TV was one to one. Yeah. But you widened out over six months, we're still 4.2 for every dollar spent. Right. Makes sense still.

Steve: Yeah. So what would happen if you didn't get fired from your job? I think about this all

Michael: the time because I am someone I kinda wish I didn't get fired for the one reason that's the only sales job I've ever had where I didn't finish number one. And, like, so, like, like, I kinda wanna go back. You're laughing, but, like, it there's nights I don't sleep because Really? Seriously. I've never been fired from a job that I wasn't the number one employee.

Steve: And then So you're saying you become number one, and then you get fired?

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's what I need. I need to become number one.

That's it. So let's talk about that.

Steve: That needs to be number one.

Michael: I saw it. It's a desire to win.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Like

Steve: Right. To be number one, is this you talked about your play sports. What sports did you play?

Michael: I played everything. Football. I I hadn't played football from, like, sixth grade. Last time was I I played was sixth grade. I played senior year of football.

Mhmm. And then I didn't play at all high school. Lacrosse, basketball, wrestling. So I played them

Steve: all. Lacrosse? Yeah.

Michael: Is that big in Ohio? Huge in Ohio.

Steve: Really? Yeah.

Michael: If you I guess it's probably not very big out here.

Steve: It's not very big. Or at least if it is, I'm not aware. You're not aware. Yeah. Yeah.

So basketball, what did you play?

Michael: Basketball, I was, like, a three or four. I never played, like,

Steve: fast,

Michael: high school. Were you the best at? Probably lacrosse. Like, I think lacrosse, if I would've not broke my ribs, I think I would've been a college athlete for lacrosse.

Steve: Gotcha. So we're talking about, you know, growing up, not having much Yep. Seeing sales the way out, being competitive. I mean, there's a bit of a trend here. Yeah.

Alright. There's there's strong determination to win. Yeah. Has I ever come back to bite you?

Michael: Oh, yeah. Definitely.

Steve: Where has it come back to bite you?

Michael: Now that I'm growing a company, it's to get to levels I wanna get to, I wanna be the biggest wholesaler in Ohio. Hopefully, we'll take that on this year, and then

Steve: I wanna be a few big names in Ohio.

Michael: Definitely do. Friends with most of them.

Steve: Yeah. And they

Michael: know I'm coming after them. Mhmm. And then Midwest, and then I I wanna compete for, like, on a national level and

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: And take this as big as I can take it. Mhmm. So it definitely bit me in the butt with, managing people. Like, I have this expectation that you should always be able to do what I can do. Mhmm.

And I've never thought I was the smartest person in the room. I typically tell people I'm typically the dumbest person in the room, but I outwork everyone, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes Mhmm. To win and keep going

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: At, like, any cost. As far as, like, in the past, landscaping industry, doing snow and stuff like that, I I've been on a shovel for forty eight hours straight, seventy two hours straight, because no one else would do it. So I would just do it and then pay the guys to go run the trucks because, like, everyone will run the truck all day Mhmm. But they won't go shovel all day. Right.

So where it's it's kinda bit me in the butt is expecting people to have that same work ethic as me and expecting people to be able to figure out things as much as I have. I wasn't diagnosed with dyslexia till after high school, but I've been told that's a lot of my benefit. Mhmm. The fact that I graduated and and passed English and Spanish classes and and, like, couldn't figure out reading, and now I'm an avid reader, but I had to read so much to become good at reading. Mhmm.

I remember, like, third grade, my grandparents had had, like, a real talk with me. They're like, if we don't figure out reading, like, we're never getting past third grade.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: And so, like, every night they had to read to me, and I'd have to read to them. And from there on, I I've until recently, I've read probably a book a week. Yeah. And now it's trying to double down and just master one book a month.

Steve: And that's different. Reading versus mastering. Yeah. And

Michael: I learned that this year.

Steve: What was it? We had a Max Max was on the show many, many years ago. Right? Yeah. He talked about you had it.

Was it, Richard Branson? Mhmm. Right? Some of the most successful people have dyslexia. Yeah.

Because you have to learn other skills, and you have to become, not great at things Yeah. So you can delegate effectively.

Michael: And you have to grit to get through, like, certain things that you Right. Probably aren't gonna be good at.

Steve: So you mentioned that you're leading people.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: So how is it how is this being ultra competitive? How does it hurt you? Because I know you're saying, like, you realize these aren't Yeah. People aren't wired like you. But how has that hurt you?

Michael: Yeah. It definitely hurt me in the fact of, like I'm I'm managing my sales team right now, and I'm just someone if I do a $150,000 in sales last month, I'm gonna go do a 175 and 200. Most people, their thermostat gets hit here Mhmm. And and they just stop there, and and they're being content or they're wanna go up one or 2%. That really drives me crazy.

I'm like, wait. You got an extra three leads you can close. Why aren't you taking advantage of that? Yeah. And and, you get that harsh tone and because, like, that's who you would be.

Mhmm. So I I I've had to come to the realization that now everyone's me, and I'm not everyone else, and and that's good. There's nothing wrong with that by any means. If everyone was like me, there'd be never there'd never be employees. Right?

Steve: Right. And there'd probably be a lot of chaos in the world.

Michael: No. No. That is very true.

Steve: You know, we're talking about, you know, like, leading people the way you wanna be led Yeah. More or less. Right? And that's something that we learned from Larry. I was I did a speaking last night, Chris Simon's event.

Michael: Uh-huh.

Steve: And the guy pulled me aside. He's like, you know, we're talking about the golden rule, treat others how you don't wanna be treated. Yeah. Platinum rule, treat others how they wanna be treated.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: And he gave he gave the best illustration. Right? It was, like, basically, you know, Michael, what's your favorite ice cream? Or do you like what's your favorite dessert?

Michael: Probably Reese's. Reese's. Yeah.

Steve: Right? I sure I saw you eat a lot of Skittles every day.

Michael: That's just because I can't eat Reese's. I haven't had Reese's at all this year.

Steve: So Alright. I'm so annoyed. So you love Reese's. Right? So I show up.

Right? And let's just say I like ice cream. So we're showing up. We're gonna be hanging out, and I just bring a bunch of ice cream. Yep.

Am I doing this for Michael? Am I doing this for me?

Michael: Definitely doing it for mister Trang.

Steve: I do it for mister Trang. So that's not really helping you. Right? So I gotta figure out what do you want Yeah. And give you that.

And that it took so long for me to understand Yep. To lead other people how they wanna be led because that's where I always let everyone else how I want to be led.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: And that is not effective because we're resourceful Yeah. And that everyone has the same level of resourcefulness.

Michael: Totally agree. And that's what the journey I'm going through right now.

Steve: Yeah. So let's talk about getting fired from all these jobs. Yeah. Right. It didn't sound like it was just one.

I get number one, and then they get fired. What is that about?

Michael: Yeah. I think I've all been fired from one job, full disclosure. I think getting fired I I remember I had a girlfriend at the time, and, I went to her parents' house afterwards and, like, how are you doing? Are you gonna start applying to other jobs? And I was like, I'll be fine.

I'll figure it out. Mhmm. And, like, I'd already started this real estate journey. I was like, I I I had a 100 rentals at the time, and, like, I'd never spent that money ever.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: All I was doing is the every time that cash flow got, like, 30 or $40, it was a new duplex. Mhmm.

Steve: And so

Michael: it was the cash flow plus my w two job. My expenses at that time, I had a paid off f one fifty. I had a mortgage payment on a, like, respectable house. Nothing nice. It was $1,200.

But, like, most people aren't gonna be like, oh, that's a dump by any means, but it's not nice. It was a great first house. Girlfriend had a $600 g p payment, I believe, and then I think her student loans were, like, $400 or $500.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So all in every month, if we never produce any income, we needed, like, $3,200. Mhmm. I looked at, like, if I stopped putting my money back in my rentals, I'd never looked at it. It was $22,000. I was like, I don't need to work ever again.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: It was just I wanted more in life.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And so once I figured that out and I figured it out that night, I was like, okay. I can do what I want, and I don't have to worry. Mhmm. And so that was a very fortunate situation for

Steve: me Yeah.

Michael: That I guess most people don't have Mhmm. That I didn't have the pressure of needing money. Don't get me wrong. I wanted money, and that pressure was definitely there. But I didn't need any money.

Like, we had literally no bills, and and and girlfriend at the time was a teacher. Her $60,000 salary covered all of our bills if I'd never produced any income. Now she would not have been very happy if she had to pay her bills, but I bet she would have if she had to.

Steve: How old were you at this time?

Michael: 26.

Steve: 26. Yeah. This is So at 23 years old, you already have 20,000 a month?

Michael: Well, no. No. I was 26 at that time.

Steve: At that time? Yeah.

Michael: I was 20

Steve: So 26, you already had enough cash flow to not work the rest of your life. It was pretty re remarkable.

Michael: Yeah. No. I didn't realize how good I had it until, like, I got fired. Mhmm.

Steve: So so how you got to that? I mean, forget, like, the 700 in the first six months. What the hell were you doing to get to a point where you get 20 k a month cash flow? Because most people today, even listening, aren't at that level.

Michael: Yeah. I think what it was is in 2018 when I started selling off, I'd been buying construction equipment. I started that business to get into real estate. So I've been buying construction equipment, a new job. I I plowed for FedEx.

So I had some big accounts, and they'd be like, hey. You need to have this much equipment and a skid steer, a truck. The manpower for that, that that cost, like, $250,000. I I was pretty young, so I could get loans on the stuff that I'd stopped, but 25, 30% down.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: I had pretty good connections being a salesperson. I could get discounts on trucks. I'd call around, find them. And so when I realized I'm not good at managing people, and that was the whole problem with my landscaping, I didn't know how to manage people, and I didn't know how to find people who could manage people. I was like, I'm done.

I don't wanna deal with all these headaches. Landscaping attracts some not so great people.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Sorry for anyone in the landscaping industry.

Steve: I just

Michael: didn't wanna be around them anymore.

Steve: Yeah. And so

Michael: I started selling that stuff off, and the CPA is like, dude, you're gonna have a ton of of capital gains here Mhmm. From all this equipment. Because I was actually selling some of this equipment for more than I paid for it. Yeah. Because I could go I had, like, eight or nine pieces of, like, skid steers that were, like, $5,060,000 dollars each, and I could get them at 10 or 15% discounts because I was buying them in bulk.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Well, then I could go sell them to individuals who are just getting started, and they would pay me what they could go get them for

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Retail. So I was I was making money on these things, and so I was like, okay. I'll just buy an apartment complex. I've heard that's great. What's a skid steer?

So you you probably see them on the street when they're they're ripping up pavement.

Steve: Uh-huh.

Michael: They got four wheels. They could turn on a dime, bucket up front. They're really good for pushing snow, loading mulch in the trucks. Gotcha. What we use them for.

Steve: Gotcha. Okay. And so you could, for all intents and purposes, at that time, wholesale skid steers.

Michael: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Which would have been a really good business to stay in because as prices just went up Yeah. Like, used equipment went up, like, a 125% because of COVID, but then it mellowed.

Steve: So you sold this equipment. I mean, how much cash were you sitting on after you sold all this equipment?

Michael: Like, $200.

Steve: $200. And then you bought apartments.

Michael: Yeah. I bought, I think, $1,800,000 in apartments Mhmm. With that money.

Steve: And then over time, you just kept Yeah.

Michael: I got a I had a w two. I was making $200 a year my first two years there. And so I just told you my bills were $3,000. We weren't spending any of that money. It was literally I get a check for $25.

Taxes would take their fair share. I'd have $18. I'd be like, cool. I can go buy a new duplex.

Steve: Or I'd

Michael: be like, I'm a wait till next month. I want a six unit or whatever the case might be. And so that's all I was doing.

Steve: So you're buying real estate almost, every month, if not every other month?

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And I then I learned that I could buy the distressed ones on the MLS

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Not even out of discount, just what they were. And then I could realize, oh, rents are, like, $700. If I go put $15,000 on a unit, I can raise them to 14. I can refi them.

Steve: Mhmm. I

Michael: had a really solid w two. Yeah. So when I got fired, I had 30 properties I was really getting ready to refinance, but I had 70 that were at 4% rates. Yeah. So, like, cash flow was amazing.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: And and rents were going up every year. It was it was crazy. So I was super fortunate for that.

Steve: Yeah. Definitely. So what are some of your biggest victories in this journey in in, you know, from getting fired to where you are today in real estate?

Michael: Depends how you define a victory, I think. Honestly, some of, like, there's been a lot of ups and downs throughout that. You lost some key people, went through a a a breakup. So I think, like, the key a key victory that a lot of people don't talk about is just having the discipline to keep going even when things aren't going in your in your direction. I've always had that discipline.

I go to the

Steve: gym to

Michael: get in shape, but it's more important for me for mindset.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So I think that's one big one. The the other big victories would be, we just closed $400,000 a month, $4.00 8 in February in assignments. And first quarter of last year, my whole goal for the whole quarter was $450,000. Yeah. So when you can look back at what your goals were a year ago and now you're doing that in a month

Steve: Mhmm. Man,

Michael: that's a pretty good feeling.

Steve: Absolutely. It's a good feeling.

Michael: And it it realize how far you've come. Mhmm. And then then you can really enjoy that moment because I I don't think a lot of people get to enjoy that moment. But for me, I'll never enjoy the moment too long. I'm always on to the Yeah.

Next biggest challenge.

Steve: Let's talk about enjoying it. You know? The because you mentioned one of the idols you had growing up, like, he had an Escalade. He was always traveling. Yeah.

I never really get to enjoy it.

Michael: Yeah. I don't think he actually enjoyed much. And so I've never really reflected on that too much. Whereas the other guy who had the 800 apartments, he enjoyed life.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Like, he was getting the new BMW every year. He was trapped and it wasn't the cars. I I'm very confident he could afford Ferraris, Lamborghinis, all of that stuff. I talked to him recently. He's got over a thousand units, and he hasn't bought anything like six or seven years.

So I can only imagine what that's worth today. Yeah. But he travels a lot with his wife. Like, they I remember one year, they they celebrated two New Years, like, one in Australia and one in US. That was, like, they wanna have two parties.

He loves his life. You know what I mean? So, like, I think it's more about that, figuring out the things you love. Mhmm. For me, I do like those things, but I also just enjoy the the growth.

Like, I really enjoy looking back and, like, oh, I remember when a $100,000 a month in a business was exciting. Mhmm. Now it's like if we don't get that a week, I'm pretty upset.

Steve: Isn't that fascinating how that goes? We set this new barometer

Michael: Yes. Nonstop. It it it it doesn't stop. Yeah. I remember when $10,000 a week was a lot.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Yeah. And don't get me wrong. It is. It's just you're always gonna I'm always gonna want more and and continue shooting for the next level, whatever that might be.

Steve: Yeah. We kinda look at, the way we described this is, like, the very first time you go to the casino, you bet $5 on blackjack. It's like, I hope I don't lose it. Yeah. Yeah.

Then you get to 10. That's 20 is 50. Then next thing you know is, like, a $100.

Michael: Yeah.

Steve: You ain't even thinking about it.

Michael: Yeah. Especially if you're winning.

Steve: Yeah. Especially if you're winning. But yeah. But the next time you go, like, you you start back at 100. You don't go back to 5.

Yeah. The next thing you go to the casino. And then, you and I, we had a chance to talk about cars. Yeah. Sounds like that's your poison.

Michael: Yeah. If I had to pick a poison, I am a car fanatic. Mhmm. I've loved cars. I remember seeing, like, Lamborghini Murcielagos and Gallatos when I was a kid, and my grandpa would be like, you can never afford that.

And so I I'm just a car fanatic for sure.

Steve: Does that stick out in your head when you said that?

Michael: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's that and, just like expensive things in general. Mhmm.

I remember my grandparents were my grandpa was he's super modest. Never understands the the the high life

Steve: kind

Michael: of thing. And and, yeah, I remember every moment he's ever told me, like, oh, that person's the one showboating and all that stuff.

Steve: And don't

Michael: get me wrong. There are definitely people who have Ferraris, Lamborghinis, all those things, and they're showboating. But there are are definitely those people, and I'm one of those people who just enjoy the car. That is my art. I appreciate it for what it is, not for anything else.

Steve: Yeah. We had that conversation. You were here for ourselves leadership training a week ago, week or two ago. And we're talking about, do you remember what I said about Lamborghinis?

Michael: I don't remember exactly, but it was definitely not on Lamborghini owners.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, all I was saying was the only there's only one reason why a Lamborghini. And so they can post about it on Instagram. Right? And and there's a marketing expense at this at this point, but it's, it's My CPA won't

Michael: let me write them off, sadly, because he doesn't say they're he he says they're not ordinary or necessary.

Steve: He's probably protecting you. He is.

Michael: I'm okay with it too.

Steve: So, you know, a principle I learned along the way as far as marketing and sales goes is, like, you bar you there's there's three levels.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: There's the the mind, the brain. Yep. Right? That's the logical. Doesn't sell very well.

Right? And then there's the heart. Right? And the heart is, like, you know, how do you feel and this and that. Mhmm.

And then the lowest level is the loins. Yeah. Right? And this identity.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? Like, people will pay a premium for identity.

Michael: Oh, yeah. Totally.

Steve: Right? So Lamborghinis, I put in that in that in that category.

Michael: I agree with you, but something about a revving natural aspirated v 10 engine just brings out an emotion.

Steve: Oh, I completely agree with that. I love the sound of Italian cars. Yeah. I completely am on board.

Michael: I love

Steve: cars. I love cars. But I'm bringing this up because you have more than a few. I do. That is correct.

Right. So I just kinda wanna drive into this point. Uh-huh. You know, like, the the things that might might have driven you. Yeah.

Right. So your grandfather says, that's that's not for you or you'll never afford it, or if they have it, it's because you're showboating.

Michael: Yep. Those were the

Steve: like And those are the things that are etched in your brain?

Michael: Yeah. Definitely.

Steve: You think that leads to your car collection today?

Michael: I I think so. I remember when I bought my first I had two Shelbys, a GT three fifty r and a GT 500. I didn't tell anyone about them for two years. Like, I was embarrassed that I had these cars. I was embarrassed that I loved them, that I and and me and my girlfriend would take it out all the weekends and, like, I didn't tell her her stepdad was a lot the same as my grandpa.

Mhmm. I didn't tell him for, like, three months that I had this car. He was so mad that I because he was a car guy. He just didn't see, like, it logic he's very logical brain. Mhmm.

Didn't matter. You could have $10,000,000 in the bank. He's not gonna spend a $100,000 on a car. Yeah. And I'm like, what's the point of having $10,000,000 in the bank Mhmm.

If you're not gonna go have fun?

Steve: Like Right.

Michael: To me, that's fun. Go ahead. So what I yeah. It definitely affected me. Like, I I still haven't told my grandpa that I have a Lambo.

I've had it for four months. He has no idea.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: I have a Porsche. He has no idea that I own a Porsche. I've had that thing for almost a year now. Mhmm. So, yeah, it's I I do it for me, not anyone else, but I think, like, it's always in the back of your mind that someone else is gonna judge you for this one way or another.

And I've learned too. Those cars inspire people. I'll be out driving and someone will be like, dad, I wanna have that car. And and I've corrected the dad's like, oh, you'll never get that. It's like, no.

If he wants that and he puts in the work, he can get it. Like, there's trillions of dollars printed. Why can't he just have his 200,000? It's not that much.

Steve: It kinda reminds me of Wolf of Wall Street. I don't remember this scene exactly. Uh-huh. But it was like, you know, if you could show me a check, whatever, like Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Right? Is that you can inspire people.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: And my dad always the same thing. You know? Like, it's 2024. I wanna say it was, like, five or six years ago. He finally sold his 1998 Dodge Caravan.

Yeah. Right. He had that Dodge Caravan for, like, twenty years. I remember growing up, same things like that. You know, how come we don't have nice cars?

You know? Because we had like, my first car was a Pontiac 6,000, which is an awful car. It's 85 horsepower. They had the, let's see, Oldsmobile six was it Oldsmobile silhouette? The alright.

Dodge Camry. These are these are just not the funnest cars. Yeah. And I was like, like, dad, why don't you work hard. Like, you have a really nice house.

Like, why don't you have a nice car? He's like, oh, those are for people that just want to put it on their credit.

Michael: Yeah. In Showboat. In Showboat. Yeah. That's my grandpa is the same thing.

His I think his only vehicle that he's bought new was a '99 f one fifty. He sold that to me in 2015. So, what, twenty six years Mhmm. For, I think, a thousand bucks. I sold it for a thousand bucks two years later.

But it had 380,000 miles, all original everything. Yeah. And so he literally drove that thing into the dirt. And even when he got another truck, one, he bought it a year old because, like, I'm never buying a new truck again. I'm like, it worked out.

What's the big deal? Just go buy a new truck, man.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: He kept the old one because he didn't wanna put miles on a new one. Yeah. So I think it's scarcity mindset, though, too.

Steve: Oh, there's definitely a scarcity mindset. And I think, you know, it comes with your upbringing. Yeah. Yeah. Like, my my dad came over here.

I mean, he's had everything taken away.

Michael: Like Yeah. They had much harder lives than we did Yeah. In the grand scheme of things.

Steve: The the adversity that my parents went through, your grandfather went through, way harsher than the adversity Yeah. That we went through.

Michael: Like, we got to see all the people who went through adversity and overcame it due to the Internet and things like that. They didn't have that.

Steve: Right. So,

Michael: like, my grandpa was been in Ohio his whole life. So, like, he had tough times, but he didn't have, like, the adversity of coming into a new country like your dad did. Mhmm. But he definitely had adversity, and he never saw other people overcoming adversity. So we they were always scared that And mobility

Steve: Yeah. Was not as much of an option.

Michael: Yeah. We like, we all we can go look on the Internet when there's a problem that we've run into. Oh, has anyone overcome this problem? Yeah.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: I mean, there's always people who don't overcome it as well. Sure. But you get to choose which side you wanna follow.

Steve: But there's a road map you can follow.

Michael: Yeah. Whereas our my grandparents and your dad didn't have that.

Steve: Yeah. There's just w two Yeah. Forever.

Michael: Yeah. That's all I thought.

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Michael: Yeah.

Steve: Is when someone says you shouldn't spend money on cars until you have x.

Michael: Yeah. You wanna speak on that? Oh, well, I'm assuming it's gonna talk about x amount of real estate

Steve: or whatever. Real estate, x amount of income, x amount of dollars in the bank account, all these things. Right? Like, they judge you on buying cars, but they'll never judge you on the house or the vacations or anything else or

Michael: the watches. Yeah. That's what I do. I'm going through it right now in my child support. They're like, why do you have all these cars?

Because my tax return doesn't show I'm actually making any money, because I'm sure it doesn't shock you. But my argument is, hey. If I go on a vacation and spend $10,000, it's gone. Poof. I can never sell that vacation.

I can't go, hey. Here's this picture of me in Jamaica. I paid $10,000 for this experience. Write me a check for, I'll sell it to you for 9,500. I'll give you a great deal, and you'll have that doesn't work that way.

Steve: Right.

Michael: The Lamborghini in in particular, I bought it for, I think, $3.15.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: I could literally sell that thing for $3.90, and I put 2,000 miles on it in four months.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: You can't. And that's a ton of fun to me. Like, that gives me more fun than a trip to Jamaica ever will

Steve: Right.

Michael: Personally. I I get it. It's not for everyone, may not be for you. That's okay. But my argument is I could set as long as I can always afford the payments on that thing and and I put 50% down, I can sell it and be out of it.

Mhmm. If I go on a vacation, I can't ever sell that and get that money back ever.

Steve: Yeah. And a

Michael: lot of people are paying for vacations credit cards, by the way.

Steve: They won't

Michael: they won't tell you that. They won't tell you that.

Steve: So that's

Michael: my argument. It's like I've always bought cars that are last year additions. Mhmm. Even in the American ones, like, my g t three fifty r, what did I buy that for? MSRP, I think, was 72.

That's what I paid for it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: I have dealers wanting a 100, a 110. Mhmm. And I've had a ton. I've fed it only has, like, 4,000 miles. I've had 4,000 smiles, what I say, on that car.

And the fact that I could sell it and make $30 if I wanted to is insane. I couldn't go spend a $100 on vacations or 70 and sell them for a 100.

Steve: You know

Michael: what I mean? So, like, that's my argument with it. I think in today's world, cars move so fast.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: I'm not saying, like, if you're only making $10,000 a month, go get a $3,000 car payment. I'm not saying that by any means. But know thyself. Like, I know I'm someone that if you hammered me with a $200 or $200,000 fine tomorrow, like and I was like, oh, I deserve this. I'm gonna figure out how to pay that off even if I don't have the money.

Mhmm. And and for me, it'd have to be, like, a 7 figure. But if I got a 7 figure problem show up tomorrow, I know I can figure it out.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: And so I know myself, like, if I had the option I don't I'm not really into really getting cars higher than a Lamborghini or Ford. Actually, there's a Ferrari I want. Mhmm.

Steve: It's a

Michael: $800,000 car. I I probably shouldn't buy a $100,000 car, seeing that I just bought a $300,000 car. Like, could I qualify for it? Could I afford it? Yes.

But if I did that, it's because I know I'm gonna go work so much harder to triple the amount of money that I currently make already. That's the only reason I would personally do it. Not everyone looks at it that way.

Steve: What kind of Ferrari is this?

Michael: It's an 08/12 GTS. So it's last year of the v twelves, potentially last year of naturally aspirated, and it's a drop top, which is really rare in v 12 furs.

Steve: Guess I have to check that out.

Michael: It's pretty badass.

Steve: I mean, I I've always been a fan of the three sixty spiders. I mean, now they're four fifties and whatever, but, like Yeah. Just high school age, college

Michael: age. Yeah. They were sick.

Steve: That was my that was my thing. Right?

Michael: I got my ass on a four eight eight GTP or four eight eight, piece to spider.

Steve: So, like, the the reason why I bring this up is that you're poison. It's cars. Yep. I poison cars. Right?

And I it's always irritated me when these people go in grandstand and talk about, like, you shouldn't spend this money on cars, but you should do this and this and this is like, why are you projecting your value

Michael: Yes.

Steve: On me? Like, you go get your nice watch. You go get your big house. You go take four vacations a year with the family. Like, go do what you guys do.

Yeah. But leave me and my car's alone.

Michael: No. I I totally get that. I get that hounded all the time. I get told, don't go work. I'm like, I like work.

Like, go enjoy yourself. Go golf. I'm like, I don't like golf near as much as I like work.

Steve: I I

Michael: don't like golf near as much as I like driving a car. Yeah. So I totally agree. I think, us car people get get a lot of slack when we should. Yeah.

Steve: Like, we're doing drugs or something. It's like You

Michael: would think it was the worst thing ever.

Steve: Back off. So in your first full year, you had $2,400,000.

Michael: Yeah. That was $20.23.

Steve: So that's that's gross profits, I presume, from flips and and then assignment revenue.

Michael: Oh, that was just flips or just rental or just assignments. Sorry. That was just assignments, and then we had 23. We only did, like, 20 plus 20 flips. That was another 700 or so.

Steve: So 3,000,000 between flips, gross profit flips Mhmm. And wholesale revenue.

Michael: Yeah. Technically, I think it'd be net from flips, gross from wholesale is how I I calculate it.

Steve: Yeah. So, those are pretty substantial numbers, particularly in Ohio. Right? Because the prices in Ohio are not what they are in Phoenix, definitely not what they're in California. No.

No. Yeah. Right? So walk me through. I'm trying to build a $2,400,000 business in Columbus.

What are all the things I have to have in place in order in order to be able to do this?

Michael: Yeah. I think the biggest thing you gotta have in place is good marketing. But I would say if you don't have it doesn't matter if you have good market if you don't know how to close deals.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So the thing I always tell my team to focus on, especially my act team, just get a deep enough deal. If it's deep in I've never not moved a deal with a 50 k assignment. It's never not happened once. It it's only the tight deals.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So if you find out their why and you can get it deep enough, you will move the deal, guaranteed. It doesn't matter Yeah. How good or bad your diswill person is. You can move the

Steve: deal. Mhmm.

Michael: So we've always focused on getting deep deals, and that's why we've always been able to beat the bigger companies out. And we focus on that by figuring out what they actually need or want Mhmm. Combination of the two, I think. And from there, you can always go spend more money on marketing. And so that's all we've done is figure out how to get the deep deals, then spending them on our marketing, then build out the team.

Yeah. It it's just this roller coaster.

Steve: You're making it sound really simple.

Michael: It it I think it is pretty simple. Now I don't think it's easy. It takes a lot of work. Yeah. But it's find good quality leads.

Mhmm. Find good people who can close those deals. Mhmm. Like, the deals move really easy. If you have a good enough deal, like, you can go find the money for it.

Mhmm. Like, that's what we started doing is just I just buy them and and sell them right on the MLS. Mhmm. And we'll move, like, flips. Like, we could have assigned it for 30, and I can I'll take it to the MLS.

Sure. There's some risk, but then I'll make 50. Mhmm. So you you can find the you can move deals. So I think the biggest piece is no good marketing, become really good at sales.

Mhmm.

Steve: If you

Michael: have those two things down, the rest of this business is pretty easy.

Steve: Yeah. Every business is easy. You get the sales marketing down. I

Michael: couldn't agree more.

Steve: So let's talk about the marketing. Yep. What are you doing for marketing?

Michael: So all we do is inbound. We've never done any of the the texting or cold calling that this industry is notorious for. So we started on TV. We got on radio next, then we went to PPC, and Facebook. We haven't had great results for Facebook, but we just keep it going for the fact of branding, trying to grow that.

Steve: Okay. So TV. I mean, do you mind sharing how much you spend a month on TV?

Michael: So I'll just go off of last month's number. We spent about $90,000 on marketing total, so I believe it was $40.15, and 25.

Steve: Okay. So 40,000 on TV. Yep. Before I dive deeper into this, have you mentally prepared for the election?

Michael: Yeah. No. I know. My TV ads are shot. I know.

TV

Steve: and radio.

Michael: Yeah. No. I I I know they're gone. Yeah. I am literally expecting any day now that I get a call, like, hey.

Your TV ad shut up, like, 50% because I also think this election's gonna the the ad spend's gonna happen a lot faster or, like, sooner than last elections.

Steve: Yeah. And Ohio, I think, is a battleground state.

Michael: Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No. I I know that marketing is gone. I'm anticipating June, but it wouldn't shock me if it's earlier.

Steve: Yeah. I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. I know.

This is probably gonna be the worst campaign season ever.

Michael: Yeah. I agree. So my second half of the year, we haven't figured it out, but it's definitely on our radar, and we're trying to figure it out right now. Yeah. Don't know what we're gonna do just yet.

Steve: We we

Michael: have enough leads. I think we'll be able to make up for it.

Steve: But Okay. So 40 k, 15 k, 25 k. Mhmm. Radio, I presume you're doing with Tony? Yep.

Michael: Tony does, TV and radio.

Steve: Okay. And then PPC, who

Michael: are you using for that? One of

Steve: your recommend. Yep. Cool. So between and then what is your targeted return on ad spend?

Michael: We aim for four. Mhmm. So last month was, like, perfect. It was, like, 4.18 or something like that.

Steve: Okay. So in doing that, you're spending the money, you're getting a four x return on ad spend. What is the process? Someone goes on TV.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: I'm I'm assuming the call the the the tracking numbers are different for each one. Do they all do all three, because they're inbound, all go to an inside sales agent? Does it go to an outside sales agent?

Michael: Yeah. So we do only, we only have closers. We don't have any follow-up specials or anything

Steve: like that. Lead managers? Yeah.

Michael: And it's because our leads are just hotter.

Steve: Yeah. Makes sense.

Michael: We don't up until recently, we had never broken 400 leads a month. Mhmm. It was last month and two other times, I think, we've done that. So we just don't have that many leads, and we're doing about 30 to 40 contracts on that. So, we're closing somewhere right around one and thirteen, I think it is, which, my understanding, is pretty low.

But I look at the total revenue more than the closed deals or gone one.

Steve: 13. Mhmm.

Michael: I know. That's why we're, coming to see you this week. We're gonna help close more deals.

Steve: I I hear that. Right? It's a lower conversion rate, but at the same time, is it deeper Oh, yeah. Fee. So, like,

Michael: our average assignment fee last month, was 32,000 Yeah. Assignment fee. Like, you talk to the other big players, they're somewhere between 18 and Yeah.

Steve: They're talking fifteen and sixteen. Yeah.

Michael: In Columbus. Yeah. They're super static at twenty.

Steve: Yeah. So no. The I mean, you say one at thirteen, and it's, like, it's bad. But I'm hearing, like, third the largest game is, like, well, that's probably the reason why. I I think so.

Yeah. And I'd rather have lower quantity and higher, spreads.

Michael: Yeah. I don't need as much operations on the back end to clean it up.

Steve: Yeah. Okay. And it could also be just the fact that you don't have lead managers. But that's

Michael: And I think that's probably the problem too.

Steve: And Yeah.

Michael: We're working through that now.

Steve: So okay. So, it goes to a setter or goes to a closer.

Michael: Yep. And

Steve: your closer, then at that point, they're locking it up. They're doing a virtual. What

Michael: Yeah. So nine out of 10 times nine out of 10 are virtual. Every now and then, we're dealing with, like, 70 year old sellers. Like, we got two. I think you were talking to one of my agents, Michael.

The the crap house. Yeah. Yeah. Three feet of sewer in the basement, guys. So she's just an older lady, and so going to meet her in person is what you gotta do.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So we've really shuffled out, hey. If if they're above 70 and they wanna do in person, we're probably not gonna fight them at all. Mhmm. If if they're below 60, we're gonna be like, hey. We don't have to do that anymore and just have a conversation and feel it out.

But nine out of 10 of them, they lock up over the phone via email.

Steve: That's pretty good. So 30 k virtual.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: And, you know, Ohio is fascinating because I look at Ohio, and you and I have had private conversations about this, but we don't have this on camera. Ohio is like Phoenix. It's like I

Michael: think so.

Steve: It's it's another little guru capital. Right? You got Tampa, Florida, which was like the guru capital forever. I think it's Sean Terry

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: Brought it to Phoenix. Right?

Michael: Yeah.

Steve: And now you got, Mark Evans out there. You got Tim Ross in there. You got Tiffany Terry Summers out there. Austin Rutherford. Austin Rutherford, Jerry Green.

Yeah. Everyone's in Ohio. Yeah. Help me understand how you can fit because how big is is Columbus? What's the population?

Michael: We just surpassed a million. Just a million. Total population.

Steve: Right. It's

Michael: all the suburbs.

Steve: And then what are the other big cities in Ohio?

Michael: So the biggest two would be Cleveland and Cincinnati after that. Okay.

Steve: Do you know what their populations are?

Michael: Cleveland's over a million. Cincinnati's, I think, 700 or 800,000.

Steve: Yeah. So that's 3,000,000. Yeah. Between the three of them. Yeah.

How are there so many big operators out there?

Michael: I think, that that is a great question. I think it goes to show you that, like, man, as long as you do the work, there's an opportunity anywhere. Mhmm. Because we're not nearly as big as Phoenix, but we got some pretty big operators out there. I think Yeah.

Everyone you listed has a $3,000,000 plus business. Right. And and I know, like, Tiffany and Josh, they're just super profitable. Mhmm. Jerry's, I think, is very profitable.

So I I think it's going down to we all just do what we do best. Like, I'm the guy who was always on TV and radio. Tiffany and Josh were really good at direct mail.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Austin and Terry stick to just the rental game for the most part.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So we just all stick to our niche, and we don't we don't buy into everything else coming out. Like, we have our blinders on, and Mhmm. We go to trusted sources. Like, I think all of us went to Carlos Reyes, at some point got trained by him. I think most of us have had coaching from Jerry as well.

Steve: So

Michael: there's there's commonalities there. Mhmm. So we'll we'll take guidance from professionals, or people who are ahead of where we wanna be. Mhmm.

Steve: But

Michael: we don't take it from the outsiders from, like, family or anyone else Mhmm. Who isn't where we wanna be in life.

Steve: Gotcha. So you're listening to the authorities Mhmm.

Michael: Who are

Steve: actually doing it. Yep. Yeah. Or who have done it. Yeah.

Okay. So that's the marketing side. I think we kinda cover that. So they're trying to lock it oh, I guess, this is getting more sales conversation. So they're trying to do one call or they're trying to,

Michael: Yeah. So we try to do one call. They don't always happen that way. I think my two performing reps are really good at knowing when to back off and, like, I'll be like, why didn't you close that one? They're like, just trust me.

And then $70,000 assignment comes in. I'm like, what? Yeah. So we try to do one close. I think it's something on 60 ish percent of our

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Ours are are closed on the one. Mhmm. Mhmm. And then the 40% could be follow ups. Like, they just locked up a deal that was five hundred and twenty days old in our CRM.

Yeah. We do about one a year that's over a year old now. And then For one month. Sorry.

Steve: And then with sales, I've had the, incredible honor of being able to work with your team. Team. Yep. So there's a lot of different options out there for sales. Yeah.

Again, I'm not the only one. We kinda mentioned a couple other ones out there. Why are you guys working with us?

Michael: I think we work with you because it's you're who I resonate the most inside the real estate world. And so, like, I love Jerry Green. I I just didn't resonate with his his path. I I big fans of Tiff and Josh. I don't follow their sales process.

And, who else is another sales trainer out there? Oh, so looking at, like, Jeremy Miner or the people who are, like, not necessarily specific to real estate. Mhmm. So Jeremy Miner and Andy Elliott. I resonate with Jeremy Miner pretty well, and I think you probably have a lot of his in in common.

I've never paid for anything of his. So I wanna get his free stuff, but his free stuff seems to relate to yours pretty well.

Steve: Yeah. His free stuff I mean, questions based selling here. Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. And I I really relate to that. I Jeremy Minor or I'm not gonna do Jeremy Minor. Austin or, Andy Elliot's Mhmm. His energy, I think, is just you need energy, but, like and I'm a pretty high energy guy, I think.

But I think he's just a bit too much and and very used car salesman.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: That's how I feel. Don't get me wrong. I I think it obviously works for a lot of people. And and so for us, it's like, I I chose you because you're who I resonate with and who I could conform with and, who I could get behind and follow and and let my team learn from because I was already on a similar path as yours. Mhmm.

Steve: And I

Michael: feel like you've gone a lot deeper in it than I have. And so, hey, if I'm gonna go deeper in this in my in my journey, why not follow the guy who I'm already on the same alignment with?

Steve: Yeah. So, Anne, it's been absolute pleasure working with your team, and I definitely appreciate that. And so then you're talking about deep. So you focus on deeper margins Yep. Versus, volume.

So some guys are like, just lock it up, see what we can do. Mhmm. You're more on, like, let's lock it over the right price or don't lock it up.

Michael: Yeah. So we're locking up more and more now over the last six months, because I we've learned that we could take chances.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: But we're I really want I tell my guys, I was like, hey. I'd rather you guys move six deals than make a 100 Mhmm. 150 k in assignments, which is they'll make with bonuses everything, like, 14 or 15 k just off of that. Mhmm. And then go get 10 deals at 15 k.

Steve: Right.

Michael: And I and I I've always found that the deeper deals, when there's a headache, one, we deeper deals don't have headaches.

Steve: And

Michael: when there is a headache, cool. It's a 50 k assignment. I'll gladly let go of eight Mhmm. To solve next problem.

Steve: It's pretty fascinating. Right? Every time if it's more profitable, it's always easier. Always. Always.

Michael: And I can always solve their problem.

Steve: And Yeah.

Michael: When I can't solve their problem because it's only a two k deal, I'm still the asshole. Mhmm. So it's like, why not just go deeper? Yeah. And then I can come up if a a problem arouses.

Steve: Yeah. I in my entire career, looking on the realtor side

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: The larger the commission, the easier the deal. Yep. Right? They were just happier with you. They were more grateful.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: On the wholesaling side, the larger the fee if I had to make the numbers work, it's already a more stressful transaction. For all buyers.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. I think we've done six or seven deals over 75. All perfectly, Smith.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Yeah. All no issues. No hiccups. Closed in two weeks. Mhmm.

Buyers out the wazoo wanting them. Right. No issues.

Steve: Yeah. And then you're saying you do stuff off the MLS. Mhmm. So talk to me about selling these off the MLS.

Michael: Yeah. So, we started a second market in Cleveland, and we just didn't know that market that well. And I've got some pretty good buyers in Columbus. So instead of, like, everyone when you reach out to them via, like, Investor Lift or something along those lines, like, oh, I'm the best buyer in town. And in my experience, if they say they're the best at anything, they're Mhmm.

Probably a pain in the butt. And it's true. Actually, every time a buyer says they're the best, I'm like, you are actually the worst buyer I've ever worked with, and I do never wanna work with you again. So taking to the MLS, we we normally just double close on them, and we premarket them to see as long as we get a showing or two, I'll I'll typically buy it. As long as the feedback on that first one is close to ask

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Because we have margins. So that's what we've done, to go to that second market. And it's all just a pre marketing agreement. Once we know there's traction on it, we close on it. Mhmm.

And then we just sell to that buyer.

Steve: Talk to me about the pre marketing agreement.

Michael: Yeah. So it's just a clause that the MLS wants to see. We're getting, like, attorney and fax. Mhmm. I think is what they're called.

And it's just saying, hey. We have the option to list this. We we try to wholesale them first to the few buyers we have in in that market, but we haven't found good buyers. Like, I can go to Tiffany and and Josh. I think they bought four off me last month.

Mhmm. And they're gonna give me really good prices right off the bat. Alright. Like, it it's no headache. And I'm like, we're always within a thousand or $2,000.

And, like, a lot of times, it's Josh and I playing rock and paper scissors to see who's gonna get the deal. Yeah. And so when that happens, it's great. But we haven't found that in Cleveland. They're like, oh, well, can you be at sixty percent?

It's like, what? What? It's a $400,000 house. You wanna be at 60? Come on.

You bought your last one at 84. Where's the difference? Yeah. And and they're just playing games, so it's like, I don't wanna play those games.

Steve: So it's

Michael: not worth my headache. I'll just list it on the MLS

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: And and field offers and just tell people I'm gonna keep it open for seventy two hours.

Steve: So double close. Mhmm. So just real quick, just to step it back for those listening that aren't familiar with double close, what does double close mean?

Michael: Yeah. So double close means we are actually taking title in that. So we'll take title in it, and then we'll sell it to the end Mhmm.

Steve: Buyer. So, how does that affect financing?

Michael: Yeah. So conventional is typically pretty fine. We've had some conventional lenders that wanna see you own it for, like, three or four weeks.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: That's not a huge deal. FHA is a big deal.

Steve: Massive deal.

Michael: Yeah. Massive. Because you gotta own it for ninety days. Mhmm. So we have one that we're actually renting out to someone.

Mhmm. It was a livable house, so we rented out way above market rent. But they just wanted it. And what did we get on that? We had a $5,000 non refundable deposit.

Mhmm. And then they're paying $2,000 a month. On a mortgage, it's only gonna be, like, $1,300 when it's theirs, by the way. And then we are set to close on it, like, the April.

Steve: So they rented it for three months so that they can get the financing later on?

Michael: Yeah. Because they needed ninety days. That's seasoning. They're pre yeah. They need the seasoning of me owning it for ninety days.

Steve: Yeah. So

Michael: It's like a it's a big deal. Like, it was a it was over 60 k deal, so it's, like, done.

Steve: Yeah. No. It's a it's a no brainer. Yeah. So, you we Wren and I, we launched sales leadership a little over a year ago.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: Right. A little over a year ago. And when we did it, I believe you were, like, the second person that signed up. Yep. Right?

What what did you take from that that you're able to implement in your business?

Michael: Yeah. I think you and Ren have done a phenomenal job. I think what we kinda talked about is I've always understood sales, always been really good at sales, naturally gifted. I think think if you went and talked to my last sales manager, he'd be like, he's always got ice in his veins, like, never had commission breath, any of those things. I realized most people aren't that way.

Yeah. And so when a salespeople will come on, like, what the hell are you doing? Like, ask questions. Don't tell them what they need to hear. Like, that never works.

And so I struggled with that. I'm reading Deion Sanders' book, and he kinda talks about it in the book that, he's had to realize most people don't have his gift.

Steve: No.

Michael: Most people don't have four one one speed. Mhmm. Like, most people aren't as confident as he is, and most people will never work as hard as he did to understand the routes and stuff of those things. And he knew what not to do. Like, he was, like, had to combine.

He didn't bench. He and his argument was Jerry Rice is not gonna lay across my chest and allow me to put two hands on him and bench him 20 times. So he's like, I'm not gonna do it. Yeah. And so that was what I had to overcome and realize I've gotta learn how to manage people if I'm gonna grow this business to where I wanna go.

Mhmm. And I felt like you guys had some good stuff going on. I like your sales, training. So I was like, what can we do here? So what did I learn from that?

I I learned that, like, man, salespeople are super emotional, and you gotta manage those emotions.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And you are continuingly always be educating them. Stuff I didn't really think about. I've never had a sales manager educate me. I always did my own education. Like, I would always if I didn't sell a deal, I I would go find a book that, like, wherever I was in the process that I struggled with.

Steve: Right.

Michael: I guess it's not normal. Or I'd go listen to podcast or I record my calls and, like or my last sales job's a while in person. I rerecord those interactions and then replay them and say, oh, I I shouldn't have said this. This is where her tone changed and I missed it. Mhmm.

I guess most people don't do that. So you gotta do that with your salespeople and sit them down and help them understand those things. And realizing when they're a performer's not performing, it it probably has nothing to do with the job. You gotta figure out what it is, and that's really helped me. So I was looking to hire three or four sales reps, and so I really took that that education that you guys provided to make sure I was gonna be the best version that I could be at that moment in time.

Thing is I'm a slow learner. So it definitely helped, and I I I that was October '21. Michael Parker started with me, January '22, and he's now with me for over a year. He's consistently closing a $150,000 a month. Mhmm.

So it worked with him. Hasn't been perfect, but he's that kind of person that doesn't need perfection. Mhmm. He just needs continuing improvement, and he respects me enough to know that, hey. Michael's trying to get better.

Michael is getting better. I'm okay with that. And so I just came back because I need to double down, and I brought, like, a whole team, Andrej, with me. It was awesome. Because I don't I think the only reason I've been really good at growing and and getting better at things is repetition and doing the work.

I don't typically do things well the first time. Mhmm. I I just have to keep going and going and going and going and because I don't quite as eventually why I get bad. And so I think it's the same thing with leading people. And so that's what my whole journey in this year is is leading people.

And, so any chance I get to lead people and so that's why I came back. I gotta get better at that, and it's it's my weakest.

Steve: Yeah. Well, what I love in in in our most recent event you bring in your team was that they'll they get to digest it. And so the reason why it's important for me to have my team there is because they can hold me accountable. Yeah. Right?

When I learn something and I don't do it, well, there's no one to hold me accountable but me, and I'm still human. Yeah. Still make excuses all the time. The time is like, that's not that important right now. When the team knows what the process is and what's important and why we have to do this way, and I cut corners.

So, like, why are you cutting corners? Like, ah, you know, it's not that big deal. Like, no. Yeah. It is important.

Here's why it's important, and they'll call me out on my own BS. Mhmm. Right? So, like, everything I do, I try to have my team involved on the same training now because now we can move together as a group versus me taking the lead Yep. And waiting for everyone else to catch up.

Michael: Yeah. No. I agree. That was the whole reason for bringing them. Morgan's really taken on hiring.

We have this, like, crazy goal to, like, eight x our sales team. We or Michael? Yeah. Definitely Michael, the guy right here. The the team's bought in because they think it's possible, like, because we could just turn the dial on marketing.

And, so Morgan's really managing hiring and the processes, and and we're looking at either resourcing a crew recruiter or bringing one in in house. Leila's training a property manager, and and we'll probably be bringing another one and then a TC. And then she takes care of all of our financial admin work too and manages that person. And so the sales leadership taught them how to, like, manage those people too. Mhmm.

So I almost think you could just call it leadership training.

Steve: You could. You could. The only reason we call

Michael: sexy though.

Steve: Well, the reason we call it sales is because, there's there's levels to managing. Right? Like, leveraging, managing, a front desk gal Mhmm. Is different than an office manager Mhmm. Is different than chief marketing officer Yes.

Is different than salespeople. Salespeople are the freaking craziest people on the planet. Mhmm. You and I are not manageable, and we're trying to attract people like you and me to manage. Yep.

Right? Like, how good are you at putting those in a CRM? Yeah.

Michael: I remember when I worked for the new build, they'd be like, yeah. I just got yelled at by our sales director because you have no notes in the CRM. He's like, the only reason I can get you off the hook is if you I'd list off a customer. You know everything about them that we need you to know. Mhmm.

I could do it. Yeah. But it goes back to, like, being dyslexic. I had the only reason I can read now is because I've remembered every single word. I don't know how to sign this stuff.

My daughter's two. She just sounded out rainbow. And I was like, wait. What? Mhmm.

Like, I I I can't comprehend that. Mhmm.

Steve: So is that so this, Lexi, you can't sound out phonetics or phonics? Yeah. Doesn't work? Doesn't work.

Michael: When the name is broken down, I'm like, what the hell does this mean? Mhmm. If it's not the only reason I could do it is because it's like like, the only reason I can read today is because my grandparents spent two years pronouncing every word to me

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Until I could say it.

Steve: And then So you it's just memory. This is like a

Michael: It's all memory.

Steve: You're reading English like some people read Chinese. Yeah. Right? Because, like, you don't you can't sound out Chinese characters.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: You just have to know what that word is Yep. Or your host.

Michael: Yeah. So if if there's a word that I can't break down the words inside of it, I have

Steve: to Google it. So you can't do it. Was it contextual? Mhmm. Like, you can't look at it and, like, well, this problem is this, like, root words, none of that.

Correct.

Michael: Nope. Good idea. So, yeah, you have

Steve: it, like, as a massive massive disadvantage that you've been able to overcome.

Michael: Yeah. Kind of it took a lot of work.

Steve: So you've had to and by the way, like, from when you first started with us in sales leadership, I mean, you're basically solopreneur with a guy that it wasn't quite working out. Yeah.

Michael: He he left shortly after.

Steve: So now you're running a massive operation. So, I mean, I think it's kudos to you for going and taking action, and you're willing right. You're pushing through, all the adversity. So you had to hire and fire Yeah. A lot starting probably in your landscaping career all the way through where you are today.

Yep. So what are your biggest lessons? We'll start with firing. What are your biggest lessons in letting people go?

Michael: Biggest lessons in letting people go, I learned from you guys. Make it about them. Mhmm. And that, hey. Take taking the blame.

It's when a sales rep doesn't work out, it's actually it is all my fault. Mhmm. But getting them to understand that, and then they're okay with going that. Their ego goes out the way. If they had any chance of being good, they have some confidence and a little bit of that ego.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And so when you go fire them, if they have potential working out, they're gonna fight you on it. Right? Whereas if you take the blame, hey. Our training is not good enough. We haven't given you the best opportunities.

But But with that being said, I don't want this to hurt you and impact your family anymore. I think there's better opportunities for you. Mhmm. They're more okay with that. So I learned letting them go gracefully and making it about you instead of them.

And then, two, like, holding them accountable to numbers so they could see it coming. When they see it coming, they'll they'll leave and there's no hard feelings. There's no you're an asshole.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: It it's a lot easier that way. And I and I think the last thing is, like, don't hold on to a nonperforming rep longer than sixty days. Like Yeah. Most big corporates, you always figure that that they fire people too soon. But when you understand a business, man, if if someone's not performing for sixty days, they're probably not gonna bounce back.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: So, like, you just gotta let them go and and realize it's not feelings. It's business.

Steve: It's just not a fit. Mhmm. Right? It's not necessarily them. It's not necessarily us.

Yeah. Not everyone's tested.

Michael: Change about that thing, and then it's okay.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I I I've had so many conversations. I thought I could think back. I wanna, like, have this conversation with Michael again.

You know? Like, I I'm resistant to it. Mhmm. But if you know what the expectations are Yeah. As a, hey, Michael.

Hey. You know, help me understand what's going on. Like, after three of those in a row, you're just not gonna show up to the meeting.

Michael: Yeah. You're either gonna change or you're you're you're changing something. It's either, hey. You don't need to have this meeting anymore because you're you're hitting the numbers that need to be hit, or you're just gonna exit.

Steve: Yeah. Coach over coach. You're gonna be updating your resume before the next meeting.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And and they do it naturally.

Steve: Right. But now now you're not the bad guy because we set those appropriate expectations. Yep.

Michael: What about hiring?

Steve: What are some of the biggest, things in in hiring?

Michael: So what we've learned is hiring has to be a full time gig. So we've now got Morgan in charge of that. So and and two, you gotta turn on a marketing wheel for that to make sure you always have endless amount of people coming in. And and we're doing a lot of outreach. We're trying to find people who are already employed.

I I think you and I talked about it the last time is when was the last time you ever updated your resume?

Steve: Twenty ten, twenty eleven.

Michael: Yes. I think I I did it, like, briefly before I got the job in 2018, but it was like, I worked for myself from 2011 to 2018. And and so that was pretty simple. But most, like, I still get job offers. Right?

I I still have people recruiting me to come work for them, and they haven't seen my resume.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Lila's worked for me. She worked for my landscaping business. It's it's over a decade she's worked for me. I don't think she she she's ever updated her resume. And but she gets several $100,000 job offers yearly.

Like, two or three, she'll be like, hey. Can you match this person's pay? And I'm like, no. But I promise you will make a lot more in ten years. She's like, yeah.

I believe that to be true. Yeah. So it's always having that wheel going on, and that's all Morgan's focused on. She's doing a lot of outreach. She's we're trying to figure out events to get to people, just get a lot of people coming in our doors.

We have a lot of at bats with those people, and we'll find the right people. So I think that's the biggest thing. And then two, taking them through a long hiring process to make sure they're the right fit, having them experience the job on the front end, so they don't get in and be like, I don't like being on the phone. Mhmm. I actually just let someone go because, two weeks in, they're like, I don't like emotions.

I'm like, what? One, I've never met a job, like, that doesn't have a lot to do with emotions, unless it's a factory job. I've never done a factory job, but that's the only thing that I could, like, fathom that there's no emotion in. Yeah. But managing people, sales of any type, very like, if you were that logical, you'd be Jeff Bezos.

Right? Like and even then, he went through a divorce, so, like Yeah. Everything he did can be maybe it was logical. I don't know.

Steve: But I'm

Michael: saying, like, there aren't many people who just based off logic, so everything's emotional. So I missed that in the interview process that he didn't wanna deal with emotions. Our sellers are super emotional. Mhmm. Emotion of my employees, including me, like, I'm super emotional.

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: So I was like, if you don't like emotions, like, that means you're not gonna wanna be around me.

Steve: It's true. But, you know, it's funny because, like, if you look at my, like, my profile and everything, I think, I'm not quite mister Spock, but I'm pretty out there. Right? I mean, that's the engineering side. I was actually having a conversation with a good friend this week, about this, and she was like, yeah.

You might be closed off emotionally.

Michael: Uh-huh.

Steve: Right? But you have the emotional awareness Yeah. To be able to understand the other person.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? And we talk about sympathy versus empathy. You don't need to feel their emotions.

Michael: No. You just

Steve: have to understand where it's coming from and let them know that you can you're aware of it. Yep. Right? And it sounds, like, so scientific when you say that way. It's like it's so sanitized, but it's really all it has to be.

Michael: Yeah. I think I'm really good at just being aware of emotions Mhmm. But not having emotions. Yeah. And sometimes that could be a fault too.

Steve: Yeah. No. I think that's it it potentially, I don't know if it's a situation where, if if you're a high performer where or not necessarily just a high performer, but, you know, we talk about different levels of trauma. Mhmm. Right?

And just the things that we grew up with that kinda, like, was it, the way that we've been compressed, what's the word, when they create diamonds? Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: It's all the pressure.

Steve: All the pressure. Right? Like, most of us wilt. Yep. Some of us come out stronger.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: But we're not necessarily, like, emotionally immature.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Right? So so there's that. And then, you know, one thing we're talking about, this week and the last week with with marketing on on the sales leadership call was you do a podcast.

Michael: Yeah. Just getting that started.

Steve: Any expectations as far as the podcasting leading into recruiting?

Michael: Yeah. That's the probably the biggest reason I I started the podcast was to recruit people. Mhmm. I think in in this business, it's talked about all the time, wholesaling and fixing and flipping. Anyone can do it.

And I think, just in in the journey we're in since COVID, being your own business owner is talked about warm. But I don't think it's talked about how hard it is and how lonely it is, and I'm not sure it's for everyone.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And so I think when you're posting content, I shoot a lot of content for Facebook, Instagram, all of those things, and and the podcast, and and you express those things, you're gonna attract people who were like, man, I wanna be a part of something bigger. I thought I could do this myself. I'm just missing a key piece, whatever that piece may be, and, hopefully, I could fill that void. Yeah. So, yeah, that that's the biggest reason I I started the podcast was, to attract people who were struggling to get to whatever level they want to be and, hopefully, they could fit inside my organization, and get to that level that they wanna be.

Steve: Yeah. And it's interesting. Right? The part about, like because social media says anyone could do it.

Michael: Yeah. Definitely does. Right.

Steve: And, you know, and and in a lot of ways, I'm happy for that because we're we're showing society there's another way Yep. Forward. At the same time, I was talking to my I was just in California this past weekend. Was hanging out with my best friend. He sold his company for some stupid amount of money.

Right? And his wife is a life coach. Yeah. So and we were talking about this, with my wife who, is is, in in the business in a different capacity. Not everyone's designed to be an entrepreneur.

Not everyone's designed to be a business owner, and we are guilty as entrepreneurs pushing people. Hey. Go work for yourself. Go do this. Right?

And we were projecting people leading again, people the way we wanna be led Yep. Versus how they might want to be led. Mhmm. And so we're imposing this will, and I'm starting to come to this conclusion. Maybe I'm I'm wiser.

Maybe I'm just continuing to give up even more on humanity. I don't know. It's like not One of them. Not everyone is designed for this. Right?

Like, if you're not willing, like, one of the, the the the requirements is, is be able to look at adversity and overcome it. And part of that is having a strong ego.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: You can't have a strong ego Mhmm. Without, you know, being, you know, a venturer, captain, maverick, individualist, strategist. Like, these are all profiles where your will to win is stronger Mhmm. Than adversity you have to overcome. That's not most people.

No. That's less than 10 of the population.

Michael: I agree. But everything that's going on the narrative out there now is that we can all would go be business owners and be happy. Yeah. I don't know that many business owners that are actually happy, and I know a lot of business owners. Yeah.

Like, very few are happy.

Steve: I was, I was on Instagram earlier today. I'm just screwing around with some free time. Uh-huh. And, Chris Jefferson was was you know, made some video about business funding.

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: He said, let me get this straight. All you guys out here with no business experience are getting 500 k in business loans. What are you guys even doing with that? Right? Well, there are people out there promising you he'd get 500 k

Michael: Yeah. In loans. I I couldn't find that kind of money in, early twenty two when I was bleeding $40,000 a month, but maybe it's out there now.

Steve: Maybe it's out there now. So what does your life look like now? Right? So you get fired in '21.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: And you don't know if real estate is it for you. Yeah. What does your life look like then, now compared to then?

Michael: Man, it's really good to reflect on that. I think the big thing is I work a lot more

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: But I enjoy it. I enjoy work more than I ever have. It's because I'm building team and helping people get to where they wanna get in life, And and with that, brings me a ton of joy. As I've made more money and I I've spent a little bit more money and I get to go to car shows and things like that. And you see all these people and they come up to you like, man, that's so cool.

How do I get there? And, like, you can you can give them a little taste of, like, what it would take to get there and and and inspire others. Getting to talk to other people, other business owners who are just getting started and and inspiring those, that always brings me a ton of joy. And just showing people, like, you don't have to come from anything. You don't have to have this business background.

You don't have to have the the greatest education. So that brings me a ton of joy. So just if I if I were to look back over it, I'm a lot happier now

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Just because I figured out I get to control all my happiness. Like and and just give you, like, the truth of what's going on in my life. I'm fighting for custody of my daughter. I can only see her four hours a week. I'm supposed to see her Sundays, but her family my ex's family doesn't think I'm capable of having my two year old daughter for eight hours, so they don't follow the court's rules.

So, like, do you have kids? Mhmm. If you were told you couldn't see your kids, how would you react? You're pretty bad. Would that be arguably the hardest thing you ever go through?

Steve: I mean, I think of the scene of Wolf of Wall Street where he slugs his wife. I'm not saying I would do that, but my my my brain goes to that scene.

Michael: Yep. My brain does too. And I will say, when you're a decent person, you don't do that. Mhmm. But I I I will say, like

Steve: I understand it.

Michael: Yes. I I that is totally true. So I I people are like, how are you happy? And I was like, I wake up and choose happiness. Like, I I have no qualms with my ex.

It's actually the court system and everything I have qualms with that any of this is loud. So every day I wake up, and I'm very grateful for her. I'm very grateful. She's a fantastic mother. My daughter lives in a very safe area, like, one of the nicest areas in town.

My ex is, has her master's degree.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: So my daughter speaks, talks better than almost any two year old. Like, people would be like people know she's too because she's a tiny little nugget. Mhmm. But everyone's like, she talks better than, like, four year olds. I'm like, yeah.

That's her mother. Her mother Right. Like, knows how to do that really well. Yeah. So, like, I find the the the good in everything, just having to let someone go.

I find the the good in that, that, hey. I they're freed up to go find out what they're passionate. That gentleman you talked about when I was a one man team with him, I talked to him every, like, two or three months. He's had, like, three or four jobs in the year, but he's happy. And, like, that brings me joy knowing that.

Yeah. So I think it comes down to, like, you realize that happy I've realized happiness is a choice, and, like, I'm gonna do what I wanna do and and not let other people, like, influence me. I I say it I said it for a long time. It's like, do you pay my bills? No.

Okay. I'm gonna do what I want. I'm not I'm not hurting anyone. It's not illegal. We're gonna keep going forward.

Steve: Yeah. I I have learned to not take input from if it has to be one of these two. Yeah. If you've done something I wanna do

Michael: Yep.

Steve: Or you'll show up on my funeral even when it's raining. Alright? If it's not one of those two things Yeah. Your input is completely invalid. And even then, if you show up to my funeral, like, I'm not gonna take business advice from you.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Right? I will go to

Steve: those people that will show up

Michael: at my funeral and ring and get business advice from them, not because I believe it's gonna be the best business advice, but I think it's gonna be the best advice they can give me and they know me personally. And so, like, I can craft a little bit. Very rarely do I take their business advice, but, like Right. I I do acknowledge it and and hear it. Mhmm.

Because I I do think there is a point to them.

Steve: Yeah. Well, you're a lot more mature than than than I am, for sure.

Michael: I don't know about that.

Steve: We need to hire nine salespeople in the next five weeks. We launched our done for you sales service just a month ago, and the demand for it has been absolutely crazy. We have all these people reaching out to us saying our sales service has been so helpful for them. Please get us more salespeople. If you are in high ticket sales or looking to

Michael: get into that space, if you want a calendar filled up with people raising their hands saying, call me at this time. Please sell me. I wanna be sold to by a highly experienced sales person. We are looking for you to have that role. We wanna take people who are good, and make them great.

People who wanna be held accountable, the same way Michael Jordan would want his coach to hold him accountable, to take him to that next level.

Steve: So if you want Ian Ross or myself to train you to get better at sales, if you wanna be able to control your income, decide exactly how much money you make, and you wanna work at a company where you're valued and appreciated, we encourage you click the link below. However, we're only hiring superstars. If you're not a plus caliber, don't click below. So besides your the financial freedom and the impact you can make, what else do you love about real estate?

Michael: Man, tax benefits. I like keeping my money. I don't think the government does a good job spending it.

Steve: Really?

Michael: I haven't seen it yet, but maybe I don't pay that close attention to all the good they spend money on. Yeah. I think the other for for me, it's the monetary benefit and providing for my family, and then knowing I can go help others. Like, that is literally the biggest two things for me is if I couldn't help others like, I donated $10,000 for, like, Christmas or toy drives last year, and Morgan and Leila took all the toys. Like, they came back, like, crying.

They're like and and they struggled with toys or Christmases at some point in their life. And so it's like it felt really good that we could give that amount, and we wanna our goal is to 10 x it this year. Like, we we wanna run a whole, like, U Haul Mhmm. And and drop that off. That's our goal this year.

Yeah. And so it to me, it's all about the impact and helping others. And and that's why I want a big business. Because I feel like if I have a big business, it would be more impactful than the next person who has the same business as me.

Steve: So you're talking about being big. Mhmm. You're talking about biggest in the Midwest. So we already talked about Ohio. Yeah.

Yeah. Where Where are the big names in the Midwest?

Michael: So, honestly, I don't know outside of Ohio, I don't know that many people. You have Minnesota home buying guys, but I don't know if you call Minnesota Midwest anymore. Mhmm. And then Tiffany and Josh, in the single family sector,

Steve: Oh, so the Taiwan National. Right? Like, the the gorilla Yep. New Western. Mhmm.

And I think they do between fifteen and twenty thousand a year.

Michael: Yeah. We would like to get to that level. Is

Steve: that the aspiration?

Michael: That is the aspiration. It is to get in the way and be the hedge fund.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Jeff Bezos just started a company or it's backed by Amazon anyway. Sure. So I don't know how much of all he actually has. My goal is to be getting their way Mhmm. At at some point that they either they're gonna realize that, hey.

We can't get past Mike or we're we're gonna work with him and write a big check.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Either way, I figured it's a big check. And either way, I figured I can do something good with him.

Steve: Yeah. So I got a chance to to meet the owner, and he's a he's a really

Michael: Of New Western?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. Really smart guy. Maybe someday, he'll come on the podcast. I don't know, Stu, if you're watching.

Right? Like Please. Maybe someday. He just has a different perspective. Right?

What's his perspective? It just has nothing to do with houses. Right? It has nothing to do, with, marketing or sales. It is just creating a plan for the next five to ten years

Michael: Mhmm.

Steve: And then just steadily making progress on that plan. Like, it's it's a big, hairy, audacious goal, broken it down to months at a time Yeah. And then executing month in, month out, no exceptions.

Michael: So I'm reading good to great, and it, like, goes over the top 10 businesses, of the nineties that really, like, outperform the whole market, and that's all they did.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And, like, that's all they talked about. And, like, it was the the leader never made it about him, which I make it about me way too often. Like, I'm after reading this book and, like, sales leadership twice now, like, I'm ashamed how much is about me, which is why I'm not a a a 9 figure business because it's way too much about me. Mhmm. So that's my journey is not make it about me.

Don't bring up what I would do in any situation Mhmm. Going forward. And so, like, in a good degree, that's all I talk about. All those leaders never made it about them, and they never thought the success was because of them. Mhmm.

They always said it was their team. And, like, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't have success without my team. I truly believe my team is more important than me, But there have been times where I've said, we only did this because of me. Mhmm.

Well, if you're saying it, you'll probably believe that at some extent. So I gotta eliminate that completely. And so but what you just said, all they do is have a good plan, believe in their plan, and just keep doing it no matter what happens. Mhmm. No matter the ebbs and flows, don't stop.

Like, Kroger do you guys have Kroger's out here?

Steve: We call it Fry's. It's the same company.

Michael: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It is, actually. I knew that. So Kroger went through this journey in, like, the seventies and eighties of no one wanted these, like, small, like, grocery stores. They all wanted these supercenters.

The amount of money they spent on their supercenters was the next twelve years of profit. Mhmm.

Steve: Like, they

Michael: didn't know it was gonna pan out, but now they're the number one grocery chain in America.

Steve: Are they number one?

Michael: If not, number one, they're number two.

Steve: Yeah. Yes. I mean, they how about level five leadership, right Yeah. Yeah. In in in Good to Great.

And, yeah, the the the 20 mile march. So after hearing Stu talk about they don't have quarterly strategy meetings, they have monthly strategy meetings. He's like, well, guys, we gotta get to a point Yeah. Where we're having monthly strategy meetings. But we're not talking about here's the goal for q one and here's the goal for q two.

Like, here is the initiative for February through April. Yep. And by the February, here's what we've done. By the March, here's here's what we have done. By the April, here's what we've got done.

Mhmm. Like, that that resolution, and and, commitment to execution and accountability, I would say, is probably the reason why I haven't hit all my goals.

Michael: 100%. Accountability for sure. Yeah. Account accountability is my biggest problem.

Steve: Yeah. So then what is your, like, what is your purpose? Like, what what keeps you going?

Michael: I think what keeps me going, technically, an orphan is defined as someone who was missing one of or both of their parents. So I had my mom in my life my entire time. She didn't raise me, but she was there. I've never known my dad, and, like, the people who didn't have a parent, a lot of them were told they couldn't become things. A lot of them didn't become things.

And so I believe I was placed on this earth to take it to as far as I can go. And to me, that's a billion dollar company to show that, like, even if your parents aren't here, they don't believe in you, you can still do it. Mhmm. That is why I keep going. That's why I'll never stop.

Like, nothing will ever stop me, is I believe there's some little boy out there who's missing his dad or or mom or both who's questioning what he should do in life Mhmm. If he should even continue to live. And I want to be that inspiration for them that, hey. Even if you didn't have oh, I don't have any one of my sports games. My grandparents had to work to provide for me.

That's why I probably never got really great at sports. They were never in the stands. I remember my senior year, I had a really good game, and my coach comes, like, dude, I think I can get you d two. Do you want it? I was like, no.

And he said, I bet your grandpa's proud of me. I was like, yeah. It had to work. Mhmm. And so I know what that feels like.

And so when I think a lot of young men go through that when their their dads aren't there, whether it's because they have to work or or they're just not in the picture. I wanna be that inspiration for people to, like, keep going and you can achieve whatever it is. It doesn't matter if your family is not there. Yeah. You're not at a disability.

Maybe your your problem, but it's not your fault. You can get past that.

Steve: And that one definitely resonates with me. Because in all the years I play basketball, my my dad's only been to one game. Yeah. Right? So, like and even when he was there, he wasn't present.

Like, he brought the Yeah. Right? Like, it it that that definitely resonates with me. How do you plan to connect and inspire this young man who doesn't have both his parents?

Michael: Yeah. No. I think for me, I use cars a lot of times. I go to these car shows, and, there's a lot of young men there and and just have conversations with them Mhmm. On just working hard and continuing to drive even when you can't see the end goal.

Don't give up when things get hard. So I think that's step one. Step two is, like, through my daughter, actually. Assuming she's gonna date men at some point, being the best father, being present. So, like, I think going through the custody battle, and only seeing her for four hours, it really like, I don't my team knows not to call me.

Like, if they call me, I won't answer, and they know that. And if I do answer, they're like they're they're like, I know you're with Izzy.

Steve: I'll I'll

Michael: be off in two seconds.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And so for, like, the first eight or nine weeks I had her, I didn't have my phone within reach. Mhmm. And so I could connect through them just by being a good parent and all of her friends and then being, like, the inspiration through them that, hey. Michael's always, like, whatever is he wants within reason, like, I'm there. Now I'm not I'm not gonna give her everything.

I don't want people to think that. But I'm gonna be super present. I'm gonna be at everything, every parenting thing, every sporting thing, and I'm not gonna miss it. I'm a make sure all of her friends know that, like, they could do all that. And then teaching those young women what to look for in young boys, and young men as as she gets in high school and what to run from.

Like, run from the 15 and 16 year old, 17 year old Mike, who a lot of times people perceive as the the cool guy, the guy that's got it all together. And that and that's not the truth at all. And so just influencing those people and as as much as possible and then to, like, eventually creating a program where I can hire those high school kids who aren't, gonna go to college, which I think going to college is becoming more and more acceptable. But I know a decade ago, it was like I I went to college for a year, got kicked out, and didn't tell anyone. Like, I paid for college and went to two classes for it was, what, four semesters?

Mhmm.

Steve: And then

Michael: my grandpa opened a letter from Ohio State saying that I've been kicked out of it. That did not go over well.

Steve: What'd you get kicked out for?

Michael: I failed out. Mhmm. I like you don't show up to class, you get zeros.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the way it works. Yeah. What's your biggest struggle today?

Michael: Oh, man. It it it definitely comes down to leadership, holding people accountable, and, just managing people. That's what I gotta get better at. That's my biggest weakness by far. Did

Steve: your team tell you that?

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I knew that going in Yeah. But they definitely reaffirm that too.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, that's the biggest thing is, for me, the best way to lead them is to empower them to challenge me. Yeah. And it sounds it may maybe sounds counterintuitive, but, like, I want to be challenged. I don't want to have the best ideas because if I have the best ideas, we are capped.

Yeah. I it

Michael: comes back to good to great. Like, you're a level four leader if you have all the best ideas. Mhmm. And that means the second you step away, your company fails.

Steve: Right.

Michael: Unless you happen to get lucky and find a level five leader, by the way.

Steve: Yeah. Have a succession plan with a level five leader.

Michael: Which probably doesn't happen. Yeah.

Steve: Well, I don't know when I have a succession plan anymore. I was told this weekend by my daughter that she's taken over the company.

Michael: There you go.

Steve: Right? It's like, okay. I mean, you're 12. Like, what qualifications do you have?

Michael: Yeah. Well, how was the one with the broken elbow? Seven. Do you? She could take it over.

She's tough.

Steve: She is tough. She is tough. Yeah. The in the same her

Michael: grit and your 12 year old already Yeah. Painting the vision, I think you got it figured out.

Steve: I hope so. I hope so. But the thing is I I never asked this of them. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. I was never like, hey. I want this for you. I've never once said I want this for you. Mhmm.

It's always been, like, you do what you think is best.

Michael: Well, I think that means you're being a good parent. I think so many parents try to force their kid down this, like, funnel Mhmm. Of, like, oh, I want them to be soccer or softball, football, whatever it is, or science or Yeah. Be a doctor or lawyer. It's like,

Steve: no.

Michael: Let the kid be whatever the kid wants to be. Like, it's it's their life.

Steve: Right. The only thing I've ever required of them is to be good at martial arts. Right? And that should be just because they're girls. If there are boys, I probably wouldn't be worried so much.

Michael: Yeah. No. I do wanna get my my little girl into martial arts or wrestling or something.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: For the fact I wanted her to be able to, She's a peanut. Like, her mom's five foot tall. Mhmm. So I'm like, self defense would make me feel

Steve: like that. That's the only thing I would

Michael: like to say out a little bit later in high school knowing that you have a little bit of self defense skills.

Steve: Yeah. What was it? It was, I think it was Chet Holmes' book, the sales ultimate sales machine. Right? Yeah.

Talks what, like, the 17. We're like, hey. Like, your daughter is stuck alone. Do you want her to know more taekwondo or not? I was like, yes.

Absolutely.

Michael: Not gonna be hurt.

Steve: How are you measuring success?

Michael: Oh, that is tough. For me, I'm measuring success by right now, it's not necessarily financial. I've always been able to, like, grow the financial ladder, pretty easy. Like, whatever money monetary goal I set out there, like, I've never

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Not hit it. So for me, success being present and getting more time with my daughter and then, two, building out a team that, like, runs itself without me. That's what I'm really working on right now. That is my weakest link, like, my entire life. And so if I can figure that out, I will have grown, I think, substantially.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And, then I can buy back time, which I'll probably just buy back with more work, but still.

Steve: Yeah. That's the one thing. We were talking about this earlier. We were, Well Club, I do with Paul Sparks. Yep.

And we're talking about how yeah. In in in theory, we tell our wives that we're gonna do this because it's gonna buy us back more time.

Michael: That that's why I'm single because, like, that's what I

Steve: And every time we buy back more time

Michael: We just go work more.

Steve: We fill it with something else.

Michael: Like something harder, something that costs more money that we have to work because, like, we have no money anymore.

Steve: Yeah. Is this this programming we have, what is your superpower?

Michael: Man, I have a I think most people would say my superpower is just, like, a tenacity or grit to keep going even when there is no end in sight. We really struggled, '22.

Steve: Mhmm. Like,

Michael: we had lost money for four or five months in a row and like, to the tune of, like, $400,000. Wow. Yeah. And your bank accounts are slipping very quickly. And this is, like, twelve months ago, I was selling houses in three days, and I'd never not sold a house in three days.

So until months later, it's, like, my house is on the market for ninety plus days and no offers. Mhmm. Like, that hurts. So I just have this tenacity. It goes back to, like I mean, I remember I was talking with my grandma.

When I was in, like, fourth or fifth grade, it was snow. We get, like, an inch or two. I get up at 4AM, go shovel all the driveways before the bus picked me up at seven, and then shovel them again before the homeowners got home. And then the next day when I come home from school, she'd have, like, all of this stuff, money, cookies, cake, movie passes, whatever, because, like, I'd go knock on their doors before storm. Hey.

You want me shoveled? Like, well, what do you want?

Steve: Like, I'll just do the work and you give me what it's worth

Michael: to you. Mhmm. And it always worked out in my favor.

Steve: Yeah. Well, it's hard to overpay or it's hard to underpay an eight year old.

Michael: I I totally agree. Looking back, man, I had it made. Life life was so good. Your expenses

Steve: were pretty minimal.

Michael: Yeah. I I didn't have expenses. I didn't pay for anything. Like, I remember mowing grass. At one point, I was mowing 20 yards in middle school.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Grandpa was paying the gas bill. Yeah. And, like, any mower maintenance too. Yeah. I might have to help him change out the blades, but, like, I didn't pay for it.

Steve: I'm pretty sure, though, he was happy with that investment.

Michael: Oh, I I think so. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. What is the big biggest regret you've had?

Michael: Oh, man. I think it goes back to programming, actually. Mhmm. Relationships. I've edited every relationship, not because the partner was bad.

It was all me. Mhmm. Like and so, like, that's my biggest regret in life is ending relationships, because I hadn't figured it out myself. Mhmm. So that's, like, that's been weighing on me for a while now.

Steve: Do you feel like you're better at that now?

Michael: Better. Yeah. Figured it out a 100%. No. But, like, well on the way to figuring it out.

Steve: What are you doing to figure yourself out?

Michael: Oh, I've been going to therapy, like, twice a week Mhmm. For two years now? Three years?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. What's the biggest, eye opening, I don't know, exercise or thought experiment or whatever they whatever it is they do in there?

Michael: So I don't know if I do any exercise but talk about so I guess my so I get in the nitty gritty of relationship. So I grew up in abusive. My mom's boyfriends were always abusive. Mhmm. And so that that's all I saw.

And but they always loved her. Mhmm. And so, like, subconsciously, that ring true with me. So I thought when you loved a woman, you beat them. Like, I'm talking about my mom's been in the hospital.

Like, I didn't see her for weeks because she beat so bad. And so, subconsciously, like, when you're dating people this goes back to, like, high school. When you're dating people in high school and as a young man, in that three to six months when things start to get serious, like, I would start to feel something, and I'd be like, no. Done. And I'd just break up with them.

And that happened time and time again, and it happened with my ex. My ex, who I have my kid with, was my first relationship over six months ever. And it got to the point where I was like, I don't know what's going on. I don't know why I have to end it, but I I like, we've gotta part ways. Mhmm.

It's because subconsciously, I thought I would physically hurt her.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And so I had to work through that. They're like, no. That's not me. I've never hurt anyone. I won't say I've never heard not heard anyone.

But, like, I've never heard of women or anything like that, and I would never do that. And I can control who I'm going to be. But I didn't know any of that.

Steve: Right.

Michael: Like, I've gone through since I started dating and when I was 16, I'm 32 now, sixteen years. So fourteen years. So this is when I started to figure it out.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: And had no idea that that was programmed to me. Mhmm. And so, like, having to unprogram that or realize that, like, hey. No. They have no control over.

Like, that's not you. You get to control that Right. Was really hard. So, like, that's my biggest regret is not figuring that out earlier. Mhmm.

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who knows a program that we have Mhmm. That we need to undo. And I think that's, for me, one of the biggest exercises in the last, year or two working with Paul Sparks is, like, the questions I never asked myself.

Yeah. Right? Like, I'll give you an example. I've been pretty bad with financing for a lot of my career. Right?

Like, even though I learned all these things, like pay yourself first and this Yeah. In your personal life, it just never translated to business. Yeah. Right? Because in business, you gotta reinvest.

You gotta reinvest. You gotta put it all back into the business. Right?

Michael: Yeah.

Steve: Where did that come from? Right? And so then you read Profit First. Like, oh, I can pay myself first. Yeah.

I have permission now to pay myself first. So you start doing that. In principle, like, logically, it makes very simple sense. But you've got all this programming within inside of you. Right?

Like, that you have to hustle. You have to grind. Or, what are some other things? Like, having traumatic memories and sitting in a conference room with my accountant just staring at the p and l. I was like, which expense am I gonna cut?

Because every single one of these expenses

Michael: Is necessary.

Steve: Is necessary. But the p and l is negative month after month. How necessary are they? Exactly. Right.

But I didn't have the the the wherewithal. I was like, okay. Well, if this doesn't work, what else can I do? Yep. It was just I need these expenses.

So there's all this program we have within us from whatever other sources that we need to remove. The thing I always talk about, you know, being the oldest is exposed in immigrant family. Mhmm. Feelings were not something we were attached to. Feelings were unacceptable.

Yeah. Totally. Right? Gotta undo that program. Mhmm.

And that one's still a work in progress. Yeah. Right? So yeah. I I would have Have

Michael: you completely undone any programs that you need to undo?

Steve: I wouldn't say I've done it professionally.

Michael: Okay.

Steve: Alright. Like, there's been a lot of introspection. One benefit of being an introvert Yep. Is I can drive around with my car in silence and

Michael: just think. Yeah. That's really good for me

Steve: too. Yeah. So I I think between that and then, having, you know, friends like Brad Chandler Uh-huh. And Iyac, who can tell you what's wrong. Again, Paul Sparks, have a mentor like Nick Peterson.

They say things. They're like, I've never looked at this problem from this angle. Right? Because you just look at it from your default Yeah. Angle.

It's like, well, if you just look at it from this way, it's like, well, that's pretty stupid what I've been doing this whole time. Totally agree. Yeah. We

Michael: could be Coming to your sales management client. I was like, oh, yeah. Right. Right. If if they didn't need managed, they wouldn't work for me.

Steve: Yeah. If they were excellent and and resourceful, they wouldn't work for you. A 100%. Right? Or on the flip side, our administrative people, they get so crazy.

Like, I hate these people. Why can't they be detourned? Well, if they were, you wouldn't have a job.

Michael: Yep. It goes both ways.

Steve: It absolutely goes both ways. Last question here is, is there any book you've gifted more than any other?

Michael: Because we are in that, like, whole fad right now and I and I I go to the gym and there's ton of young men there.

Steve: Mhmm.

Michael: Alex Hermosy's book, A 100,000,000 Dollar Leads Mhmm. He sold me on that whole, like, book thing about way too many. Mhmm.

Steve: So

Michael: I think that's one. But two, like, a lot of new business owners don't understand how important leads are or how to get them. And I think that book breaks it down at, like, a third grade reading level is what he says and, like, the pictures and stuff. I've read that book four or five times since it came out. So I've given that book a ton.

And then another book, is just a, a leadership book. It's blanking me right now, but you and I talked about it, last time I was here.

Steve: There's Extreme Ownership, How Leadership Actually Works, 21 Laws of Leadership.

Michael: It's a nine circles.

Steve: Oh, Gapology. Yes. Gapology.

Michael: I've given that book quite a bit. There there's two people in my life I typically talk to. People who are stuck, at being a soul solar entrepreneur. They don't know how to grow, and it's because they're terrible leaders Mhmm. Or the people getting started in business, and they don't know how to get their first sale, but it's because they don't know leads and and and sales.

Yeah. And so that that's why I'm giving those two books.

Steve: Yeah. It's it's fascinating. Right? Like, this whole journey is, like, it's marketing, which is really hard Mhmm.

Michael: When you

Steve: don't know anything. It was actually the easiest to master. I agree. Right? And then it sells, which is a journey Mhmm.

And it's leadership and his finance. And the thing I hate most about finances is that none of his count is none of his intuitive. Mhmm. It's all kind of intuitive. Like, looking at balance sheets, like, okay.

So I bought this property in 2021, but I sold it in 2022. So it's realized rev Yes. Cost and revenue in '22. But in '21, it was just a balance sheet expense. Like, my account must have looked at me like I'm a complete idiot, imbecile for so many years.

Like, what do you mean that when I pay my credit card bill, that's not an expense?

Michael: You've already booked it over here last month, Steve.

Steve: I know. But, like, I I mean, I must ask that question probably, like, 10 different times. Trying to, like, hope to hear different answers. No. You already spent it.

Michael: Yeah. I got lucky. I realized that, like, numbers not being able to read, numbers always came really well to me. So, like, I figured that out at a at a pretty young age. But, yeah, most people

Steve: Yeah.

Michael: Are in the same

Steve: location. And and, the when we we used to do workshops, and I would break down how to calculate a p and l, flipping in QuickBooks. Man, that was like an hour. Just showing how to classify and balance sheet Mhmm. And converting from balance sheet to expense on day of closing.

Yep. That was always an ordeal. And it that and it was always, like, really impactful. But, man, like, it felt like time stopped because, like, we couldn't move on Until it's done. Until we figured out the p and l.

Right? So, like, we can do p and l on on spreadsheets. Right? Like, that's easy.

Michael: Super easy.

Steve: Super easy. Document in QuickBooks, that's an ordeal that Yeah. A lot of people we there were there were a lot of questions there. So I want you to think with the last thoughts, to leave all the listeners as well before we do that. Guys, you got value today.

Please subscribe. Share this with your friends. Share this with your families, your colleagues. Don't keep us a secret. Right?

A rising tide lists all boats trying to create millionaires over here. So please share with your colleagues. So what are the last thoughts you wanna leave every everybody with?

Michael: Yeah. Last thoughts. One, selfishly, if you're looking for a job and in Columbus, Ohio, we're we're hiring sales reps. We'd love to bring people on. If you're someone who thinks you're a leader and wants to grow a company, we would love to have you.

And second, wherever you're at in your journey, just keep going, knowing that you may not be able to see the end of that tunnel or that that that light at the end of the tunnel. Know that it always does come as long as you don't quit. So if you're ever in that dark spot in business or life, just keep going. It it only stays dark if you quit. It the light always comes.

So Yeah.

Steve: It's perfect. How can they reach out to you?

Michael: Yeah. I think the best way, my Instagram, it's just real estate mike o two. Shoot me a message on there, and I will get back to you.

Steve: You need to have a conversation with real estate, Mike? You need to reach out to this guy?

Michael: I I tag my team to, like, find my name is Michael Smith. So, like, if I recall, I have all the Michael Smiths. But I'm like

Steve: Just buy michaelsmith.com.

Michael: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I I tag them with, like, checking that stuff every month.

Steve: I was

Michael: like, if it ever comes up at a reasonable price, we're doing it. And same with real estate, Mike, too. So Yeah. Yeah. If you wanna have a com I'll let you have a conversation.

Steve: Yeah. I tried buying at Steve. Uh-huh. Right? And at the point at that time, they wanted 1 Bitcoin.

Like,

Michael: How long ago was that?

Steve: Well, it was when Bitcoin was doing really well. So, like, pre '22 crash.

Michael: Okay. So forty ish, Revlon?

Steve: '42, '44. I was like, look, I really want this handle, but I don't wanna spend 40 k on this handle.

Michael: It would've worked. I mean I

Steve: mean, I should've he already sold it. Otherwise, when Bitcoin was at 20, he's like, I I think I'm gonna justify this. Yeah. And then steve.com, that guy is just he's irrational.

Michael: Seven figures.

Steve: I don't know. He's, like, he's not negotiable. So I think that's his way of just trying to give me to bid myself against really high.

Michael: Yeah. I don't blame him if you have something like that. Yeah.

Steve: I don't blame him either. So perfect. So real estate Mike zero two.

Michael: Yep.

Steve: Awesome. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Michael: Appreciate it, Dave.

Steve: Thank thank you guys for watching, and we'll see you guys next time.